艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the ASML 2026 first quarter financial results conference call on April 15, 2026. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

各位好，感謝您撥冗等候。歡迎參加 ASML 於 2026 年 4 月 15 日舉行的 2026 年第一季財務業績電話會議。(接線員指示) 請注意，今天的會議將被錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference call over to Mr. Jim Kavanagh. Please go ahead.

現在我想將電話會議交給 Jim Kavanagh 先生。請開始。

Thank you, operator. Welcome, everyone. This is Jim Kavanagh, Head of Investor Relations at ASML. Joining me today on the call are ASML's CEO, Christophe Fouquet; and our CFO, Roger Dassen. The subject of today's call is ASML's 2026 first quarter results.

謝謝，接線員。各位好，歡迎大家。我是 Jim Kavanagh，ASML 投資人關係主管。今天與我一同參與電話會議的有 ASML 執行長 Christophe Fouquet，以及我們的財務長 Roger Dassen。今天會議的主題是 ASML 2026 年第一季業績。

The length of the call will be 60 minutes, and questions will be taken in the order in which they are received. This call is also being broadcast live over the Internet at www.asml.com. A transcript of management's opening remarks and a replay of the call will be available on our website shortly following the conclusion of this call.

本次電話會議將進行 60 分鐘，並將依收到問題的順序回答提問。本次會議也將透過網際網路於 www.asml.com 進行即時直播。管理層開場致詞的逐字稿以及本次會議的重播，將於本次會議結束後不久在我們的網站上提供。

Before we begin, I would like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release and the presentation found on our website at www.asml.com, and in ASML's annual report on Form 20-F and other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在開始之前，我想提醒各位聽眾，管理層在本次電話會議中的評論將包含符合聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述涉及重大風險與不確定性。關於風險因素的討論，我建議您查閱今日新聞稿與我們網站 www.asml.com 上的簡報中所載的「安全港」聲明，以及 ASML 以 Form 20-F 提交的年度報告與其他向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Christophe Fouquet for a brief introduction.

接下來，我想把電話交給 Christophe Fouquet，請他做簡短開場。

Thank you, Jim. Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our first quarter 2026 results conference call. Before we begin the Q&A session, Roger and I would like to provide an overview and some commentaries on the first quarter 2026 results as well as provide some additional comments on the current business environment and on our future business plans. Roger?

謝謝你，Jim。各位好，歡迎大家，也感謝各位參加我們 2026 年第一季業績電話會議。在開始問答環節之前，Roger 和我想先就 2026 年第一季業績提供概覽與一些評論，並就目前的商業環境以及我們未來的業務計畫補充一些看法。Roger？

Thank you, Christophe, and welcome, everyone. I will first review the first quarter 2026 financial accomplishments and then provide guidance on the second quarter of 2026. Let me start with our first quarter accomplishments.

謝謝你，Christophe，各位好，歡迎大家。我將先回顧 2026 年第一季的財務成果，接著提供 2026 年第二季的指引。先從第一季的成果談起。

In the first quarter of 2026, total net sales were EUR8.8 billion, which is within our guidance. Net system sales were EUR6.3 billion, which includes over EUR4.1 billion from EUV system sales, including sales from two High NA systems and over EUR2.1 billion from non-EUV system sales. Net system sales were almost equally split between logic at 49% and memory at 51%.

2026 年第一季，總淨銷售額為 88 億歐元，符合我們的指引區間。系統淨銷售額為 63 億歐元，其中包含超過 41 億歐元的 EUV 系統銷售（包括兩套 High NA 系統的銷售），以及超過 21 億歐元的非 EUV 系統銷售。系統淨銷售額在邏輯與記憶體之間幾乎各半分配：邏輯 49%，記憶體 51%。

Installed Base Management sales for the quarter came in at EUR2.5 billion, slightly above our guidance. Gross margin for the quarter was at the high end of our guidance at 53%, primarily due to the contribution of very high-margin components within our installed base business. On operating expenses, we came in as guidance. R&D expenses were rounded at EUR1.2 billion and SG&A expenses came in at EUR0.3 billion.

本季裝機基礎管理（Installed Base Management）銷售額為 25 億歐元，略高於我們的指引。本季毛利率為 53%，位於指引區間上緣，主要受惠於我們裝機基礎業務中高毛利零組件的貢獻。營業費用方面，符合指引。研發費用約為 12 億歐元，銷售、一般及行政（SG&A）費用約為 3 億歐元。

The effective tax rate for Q1 was 17.1%. For the full year 2026, the expected annualized effective tax rate is around 17%. Net income in Q1 was EUR2.8 billion, representing 31.4% of total net sales, resulting in earnings per share of EUR7.15.

第一季有效稅率為 17.1%。就 2026 全年而言，預期年化有效稅率約為 17%。第一季淨利為 28 億歐元，占總淨銷售額的 31.4%，每股盈餘為 7.15 歐元。

Turning to the balance sheet. We ended the first quarter with cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments at a level of EUR8.4 billion. Our Q1 free cash flow was negative EUR2.6 billion, largely driven by the timing of down payments. With that, I would like to turn to our expectations for the second quarter of 2026.

接著看資產負債表。第一季結束時，我們的現金、約當現金及短期投資為 84 億歐元。第一季自由現金流為負 26 億歐元，主要受預收款（down payments）時點影響。接下來，我將說明我們對 2026 年第二季的展望。

We expect Q2 total net sales to be between EUR8.4 billion and EUR9 billion. We expect our Q2 installed base management sales to be around EUR2.5 billion. Gross margin for Q2 is expected to be between 51% and 52%. The expected R&D expenses for Q2 are around EUR1.2 billion, and SG&A is expected to be around EUR0.3 billion.

我們預期第二季總淨銷售額介於 84 億至 90 億歐元。我們預期第二季裝機基礎管理銷售額約為 25 億歐元。第二季毛利率預期介於 51% 至 52%。第二季預期研發費用約為 12 億歐元，SG&A 預期約為 3 億歐元。

Moving to our cash return to our shareholders. In Q1, ASML paid the third interim dividend over 2025 of EUR1.60 per ordinary share. ASML intends to declare a total dividend for the year 2025 of EUR7.50 per ordinary share, which is a 17% increase compared to 2024. Recognizing the three interim dividends of EUR1.60 per ordinary share paid in '25 and '26, this leads to a final dividend proposal to the Annual General Meeting of EUR2.70 per ordinary share. In Q1 2026, we purchased shares for a total amount of around EUR1.1 billion.

接著談我們對股東的現金回饋。第一季，ASML 支付了 2025 年第三次期中股利，每股普通股 1.60 歐元。ASML 擬宣告 2025 年度每股普通股總股利 7.50 歐元，較 2024 年增加 17%。考量 2025 年與 2026 年已支付的三次期中股利（每股普通股 1.60 歐元），因此向年度股東常會提出的期末股利提案為每股普通股 2.70 歐元。2026 年第一季，我們回購股份總金額約 11 億歐元。

And with that, I would like to turn the call back over to Christophe.

接下來，我想把電話交回給 Christophe。

Thank you, Roger. As Roger highlighted, we finished the first quarter with good financial results. Looking ahead with respect to the market, the growth outlook for the semiconductor industry continues to solidify, driven primarily by AI-related infrastructure investment. These investments are increasing demand for advanced logic and memory chips in many areas. And for the foreseeable future, demand will continue to outpace supply. This creates constraints across end markets from AI to mobile and PCs, which is driving our customers to aggressively add capacity.

謝謝你，Roger。如 Roger 所強調，我們以良好的財務表現結束第一季。展望未來，就市場而言，半導體產業的成長前景持續鞏固，主要由 AI 相關基礎設施投資所驅動。這些投資正在提升多個領域對先進邏輯與記憶體晶片的需求。在可預見的未來，需求將持續超過供給。這在從 AI 到行動裝置與 PC 等終端市場造成供給限制，並促使我們的客戶積極擴增產能。

In the Memory business, many customers have commented that they are sold out for the remainder of the year and that they expect the supply limitation to persist beyond 2026, despite their plans to add significant capacity. In the Logic business, our customers are adding capacity across multiple advanced nodes to support demand while continuing to ramp the 2-nanometer node in support of next-generation HPC and mobile application. We also expect supply limitation across those advanced nodes beyond 2026.

在記憶體業務方面，許多客戶表示今年剩餘期間的產能已全數售罄，且儘管他們計畫新增大量產能，仍預期供給限制將延續至 2026 年之後。在邏輯業務方面，我們的客戶正於多個先進節點擴增產能以支撐需求，同時持續推進 2 奈米節點的量產爬坡，以支援下一代 HPC 與行動應用。我們也預期這些先進節點的供給限制將延續至 2026 年之後。

Both our Memory and Logic customers are responding to this unprecedented demand by increasing capital expenditures and accelerating capacity expansion plans this year and beyond. Those investments are supported by long-term agreements with their own customers.

我們的記憶體與邏輯客戶正透過提高資本支出並加速今年及未來的產能擴張計畫，以回應這前所未有的需求。這些投資由其自身客戶的長期協議所支持。

In addition to expanding capacity, both advanced DRAM and Logic customers continue to further adopt EUV and emerge on deep UV on new process nodes, which further increases their demand for lithography. As a result, ASML's order intake continues to be very strong, and we stay closely aligned with our customers to support their needs. At the same time, we offer customers productivity upgrade for their installed base to increase their short-term output requirements.

除了擴增產能之外，先進 DRAM 與邏輯客戶也持續進一步採用 EUV，並在新的製程節點上導入深紫外（DUV），進一步提升其對微影設備的需求。因此，ASML 的訂單接單量持續非常強勁，我們也與客戶保持緊密對齊以支援其需求。同時，我們也為客戶的裝機基礎提供生產力升級，以提升其短期產出需求。

Turning to our capacity expansion plan for 2026, we are executing on an output plan of at least 60 low-NA EUV system. And despite a slow start, as discussed last quarter, driving output of our emergent system close to that in 2025. Based on these developments in demand and order intake, we are quarter by quarter increasing the move rates for our HPM products, raising low-NA EUV capacity to at least 80 systems next year and scaling Deep UV and application products in alignment.

談到我們 2026 年的產能擴充計畫，我們正在執行至少 60 台低 NA EUV 系統的產出計畫。儘管起步較慢，如同上季所討論的，我們正推動新興系統的產出接近 2025 年的水準。基於這些需求與接單量的發展，我們正逐季提高 HPM 產品的移轉速率（move rate），將明年低 NA EUV 產能提升至至少 80 台系統，並同步擴增深紫外（Deep UV）與應用產品的產能以符合需求。

We continue to see a strong year ahead and expect ASML to grow in 2026. We are, therefore, updating our 2026 guidance, both narrowing and increasing the expected revenue range to between EUR36 billion and EUR40 billion while maintaining our expectation of a gross margin between 51% and 53%, with revenue weighted to the second half of the year. As we said last quarter, EUV revenue is expected to raise significantly this year, driven by the dynamics in advanced logic and DRAM markets mentioned earlier.

我們仍然看好未來一年表現強勁，並預期 ASML 將在 2026 年成長。因此，我們更新 2026 年指引，將預期營收區間收斂並上調至 360 億歐元至 400 億歐元，同時維持毛利率介於 51% 至 53% 的預期，且營收將偏重於下半年。如同上季所說，受先前提到的先進邏輯與 DRAM 市場動態帶動，今年 EUV 營收預期將顯著提升。

For non-EUV revenue, we previously expected this to be similar to last year, but given continued demand momentum, we now expect growth as a result of customers adding more deep UV lithography to support their expansion plans. We also expect installed base management revenue to grow significantly this year, driven by service revenue from our expanding EUV installed base and customer demand for performance upgrades to support their increasing capacity requirements. We expect that the bandwidth in our 2026 guidance accommodates potential outcomes of ongoing discussions around export control.

就非 EUV 營收而言，我們先前預期與去年相近，但鑑於需求動能持續，我們現在預期將成長，原因是客戶為支援其擴產計畫而增加更多深紫外微影設備。我們也預期今年裝機基礎管理（installed base management）營收將大幅成長，主要受我們持續擴大的 EUV 裝機基礎所帶動的服務營收，以及客戶為支援其不斷提升的產能需求而對效能升級的需求所驅動。我們預期 2026 年指引的區間可涵蓋目前仍在進行的出口管制相關討論可能帶來的結果。

Turning to technology, we continue to make very good progress on this front with several developments recently highlighted at the SPIE Advanced Lithography and Patterning Conference this February in San Jose. At the conference, we presented an updated Low NA EUV product road map that reflects improvement to both our short-term and long-term plans for these products. This includes the ability to reach at least 330 wafer per hours on low NA EUV at the start of the next decade, enabled in large part by our continued source power improvement as evidenced by our recent 1,000 watt source demonstration.

談到技術面，我們在此方面持續取得非常良好的進展，近期在今年 2 月於聖荷西舉行的 SPIE 先進微影與圖案化（Advanced Lithography and Patterning）會議上也重點展示了多項進展。在會議上，我們發表了更新版的低 NA EUV 產品路線圖，反映我們對這些產品的短期與長期計畫皆有所改善。其中包括在下個十年初期，低 NA EUV 可達到至少每小時 330 片晶圓的能力，這在很大程度上得益於我們持續提升光源功率，近期 1,000 瓦光源展示即為明證。

In the short term, all NXE:3800E System can benefit from an upgrade that provides an increase of 10 wafers per hour with 230 wafer per hours available immediately to all customers. For our NXE:3800F System, we have raised the wafer per hour specification from 250 wafers to 260 wafers per hours. We plan to start shipping that system in 2027 with full volume slated for 2028. We also shared that the High-NA platform has now processed over 0.5 million wafers and achieved over 80% availability.

在短期內，所有 NXE:3800E 系統都可透過升級受益，使產能提升每小時 10 片晶圓，並可立即向所有客戶提供每小時 230 片晶圓的規格。針對 NXE:3800F 系統，我們已將每小時晶圓數規格由 250 片提升至 260 片。我們計畫於 2027 年開始出貨該系統，並預計 2028 年達到全面量產。我們也分享，高 NA 平台目前已處理超過 50 萬片晶圓，且可用率已達 80% 以上。

Also at the conference, we saw customers presenting several strong papers highlighting their progress with High-NA. These presentations demonstrated use cases in both logic and in DRAM in which a single high-NA exposure can replace complex multi-patterning processes that today require three or four low-NA exposures.

同樣在會議上，我們也看到客戶發表多篇強而有力的論文，突顯其在高 NA 方面的進展。這些發表展示了邏輯與 DRAM 的應用案例，其中單次高 NA 曝光可取代目前需要三到四次低 NA 曝光的複雜多重圖案化製程。

For some critical layers, High-NA can reduce the number of process steps by a factor of 10. The progress being made throughout the ecosystem, especially with Resist, allow us to target line and pitches of 18-nanometer for logic and contact pitches below 28-nanometer for DRAM. This means that High-NA can support single expose for at least three nodes in logic and DRAM. We continue to work to further mature the platform alongside our customers as they start to test the technology on product wafers and move closer to bringing High-NA into high-volume manufacturing.

對於某些關鍵層，高 NA 可將製程步驟數減少 10 倍。整個生態系統持續取得進展，尤其是在光阻（Resist）方面，使我們能以邏輯線寬與間距（line and pitch）18 奈米、以及 DRAM 接觸孔間距（contact pitch）低於 28 奈米為目標。這表示高 NA 至少可支援邏輯與 DRAM 三個節點的單次曝光。隨著客戶開始在產品晶圓上測試該技術並更接近將高 NA 導入高量產製造，我們將持續與客戶共同推進平台成熟度。

Looking more broadly, what we have seen over the past few months has further confirmed our view on the positive impact of AI on customer demand for our advanced product and especially for our EUV system in both advanced memory and logic. We see the end market dynamics supporting a shift in product mix towards more demand for our advanced lithography product and an increase in litho intensity. Our strong productivity road map on low-NA in combination with the introduction of High-NA supports further cost of technology reduction for our customers. In summary, demand remains strong for the entire product portfolio.

更廣泛來看，過去幾個月我們所見進一步印證了我們的觀點：AI 對客戶對我們先進產品、尤其是在先進記憶體與邏輯領域對 EUV 系統的需求，具有正面影響。我們看到終端市場動態支持產品組合朝向對先進微影產品需求更高的方向轉移，且微影強度（litho intensity）提升。我們在低 NA 的強勁生產力路線圖，結合高 NA 的導入，可協助客戶進一步降低技術成本。總結而言，整體產品組合的需求仍然強勁。

With that, we will be happy to take your questions.

接下來，我們很樂意回答各位的問題。

Thank you, Roger, and thank you, Christophe. The operator will instruct you momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session. (Operator Instructions) Now operator, could we have your final instructions and then the first question, please?

謝謝你，Roger，也謝謝你，Christophe。接線員稍後會說明問答環節的流程。(接線員指示) 那麼接線員，請給我們最後的說明，然後請開始第一個問題。

(Operator Instructions) Joe Quatrochi, Wells Fargo.

(接線員指示) Wells Fargo 的 Joe Quatrochi。

Maybe I'll just start with the updated 2026 revenue guide. You talked about taking up your immersion outlook and your deep UV outlook. How much of that is coming from China versus non-China? And did the EUV outlook change at all?

我先從更新後的 2026 年營收指引開始問。你提到上調浸潤式（immersion）展望以及深紫外（Deep UV）展望。其中有多少是來自中國、多少是來自非中國？另外，EUV 的展望有任何改變嗎？

Joe, it's Roger. This is primarily non-China when it comes to immersion. China remains at the midpoint around 20%. That's the expectation that we have for the China business. So that view has not changed.

Joe，我是 Roger。就浸潤式而言，這主要來自非中國。中國仍維持在約 20% 的中位數水準。這是我們對中國業務的預期。因此這個看法沒有改變。

What has changed here is, as we mentioned last -- on the last call, we were looking at immersion and said, given the supply chain situation in immersion, we said we doubt whether we can get immersion to the level that we had last year. We've been working extremely hard. And right now, we're at the point where we believe we can get immersion close to the levels that we had last year. And that would primarily flow to the non-Chinese customers. So that's where it's at.

這裡改變的是，如同我們在上一通電話中提到的，我們當時看浸潤式業務並表示，考量浸潤式供應鏈狀況，我們懷疑是否能把浸潤式拉升到去年水準。我們一直非常努力。而目前我們已到達一個階段，相信可以讓浸潤式接近去年水準。而這將主要流向非中國客戶。所以目前就是這樣的狀況。

So that's a major driver of the uptick. And also in EUV, we believe there is a bit more that can be done. So it's in that combination. And as you can see from our achievements and also our expectation for the installed base business, that one is strong as well. So I would say it's actually a combination, but clearly, immersion is an important part of the uptick of the guidance.

因此這是上修的主要驅動因素。另外在 EUV 方面，我們認為也還能再多做一些。所以是這兩者的組合。而且從我們的成果以及對裝機基礎業務的預期來看，那一塊也同樣強勁。所以我會說這其實是多項因素的組合，但很明顯，浸潤式是指引上修的重要部分。

That's helpful. And then just as a follow-up, on the gross margin, just the range not changing, but clearly, immersion increasing. I know that's a bit higher gross margin. Just any puts and takes there of why the gross margin guide stays the same for '26?

這很有幫助。接著追問毛利率：區間沒有改變，但顯然浸潤式占比提高。我知道那部分毛利率稍高。能否談談為什麼 2026 年毛利率指引仍維持不變？

Yes, you're right. I mean, for the entire year, the gross margin remains in spite of a bit more immersion. But it's also clear that we're increasing the move rate quite a bit. Of course, increasing the move rate means that you're hiring people, hiring people, training people that also costs a bit of money. So every ramp, you always have a little bit of cost before you have the benefit of that.

是的，你說得對。我的意思是，就全年而言，即便浸潤式多了一些，毛利率仍維持不變。但同時也很明顯，我們正在大幅提高移轉速率（move rate）。當然，提高移轉速率意味著要招募人員、招募人員並訓練人員，這也會帶來一些成本。因此每次擴產爬坡時，你總是會在享受到效益之前先承擔一些成本。

So that's the other side of the equation. So that's why we believe that the guidance range as we have it, taking into consideration all the puts and takes, we believe keeping it as we articulated a quarter ago is the right way to go.

所以這就是等式的另一面。因此，我們相信目前所提供的指引區間，在考量所有正反因素之後，維持如同一季前我們所闡述的內容，是正確的做法。

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

I have two of them. First one, Roger or Christophe, I'm kind of curious, what is the visibility you're getting from your customers? Does that extend into 2028? And based on that, how to think about ASML's growth profile in '27 and '28, either qualitatively or quantitatively?

我有兩個問題。第一個，Roger 或 Christophe，我有點好奇，你們從客戶那邊獲得的能見度如何？這是否能延伸到 2028 年？基於此，該如何看待 ASML 在 2027 與 2028 年的成長輪廓，無論是定性或定量？

Well, I think 2028 is still quite far away. And I think a lot of the discussion we have with our customers today are still a bit about 2026. As Roger mentioned, we're still working hard even for 2026 with our customer to make sure we deliver what they need. And of course, a lot of discussion now moving to 2027, which is also why we are also there working very hard to increase the capacity. But 2028 is a bit too far away.

嗯，我認為 2028 年仍然相當遙遠。而且我認為我們今天與客戶的許多討論，仍然有一部分是圍繞在 2026 年。如 Roger 所提到的，我們甚至對 2026 年也仍在與客戶非常努力地合作，確保我們交付他們所需要的東西。當然，現在也有很多討論正轉向 2027 年，這也是為什麼我們同樣在那方面非常努力地提升產能。但 2028 年就有點太遠了。

Is that a way to think about '27 at this moment, Christophe?

Christophe，那目前要怎麼看待 2027 年？

Well, I think you -- we mentioned already that we are growing our move rate every quarter. So I think we are still in a dynamic where we believe that we have to create more space for our customer. I think we've explained in our introduction that we are preparing to build at least 80 low-NA EUV system next year. So I think these are the signs if you need any that, of course, the discussion we have about 2027 are currently around making sure that we have enough capacity for our customers.

嗯，我想你——我們已經提到，我們每一季都在提升出貨節奏（move rate）。所以我認為我們仍處於一個動態之中：我們相信必須為客戶創造更多空間。我想我們在開場說明中已解釋，我們正準備在明年建造至少 80 台低 NA EUV 系統。所以如果你需要任何跡象的話，這些就是；當然，我們目前關於 2027 年的討論，主要是確保我們有足夠的產能供應客戶。

Got it. And then as a quick follow-up, I think you mentioned how you are undershipping demand today. If you start looking at '27 at 80 unit capacity for low-NA, are you meeting demand? Are you still undershipping demand at 80 units next year?

了解。接著快速追問一下，我想你提到目前你們的出貨低於終端需求。如果開始看 2027 年、低 NA 產能為 80 台，你們是否能滿足需求？明年在 80 台的情況下，你們仍然是出貨低於需求嗎？

Well, I think all those discussions, and I think the number we shared today are, I will say, the results of very close discussion with our customers. We talked about at least 80 because those discussions are still ongoing. I think you have seen, of course, the dynamic in the last couple of quarters. So I think we said that also last quarter, we were working every day very closely with our customer to make sure basically that we stay in line with what they need. I think we have, of course, a very strong mission to meet their demand.

嗯，我認為所有這些討論，以及我們今天分享的數字，我會說，都是與客戶非常密切討論的結果。我們談到至少 80 台，是因為這些討論仍在進行中。我想你當然也看到過去幾季的動態。所以我想我們上季也說過，我們每天都與客戶非常緊密合作，基本上確保我們與他們的需求保持一致。當然，我們有非常強烈的使命要滿足他們的需求。

So that's what those number reflects. I think that's the result of where our discussions are today.

所以這就是那些數字所反映的內容。我想那是我們目前討論進展到的結果。

C.J. Muse, Cantor Fitzgerald.

C.J. Muse，Cantor Fitzgerald。

I guess first question going back to gross margins. And if we isolate March versus June, March, you revenue to High-NA, zero, I think, embedded in June. And so I get kind of the upgrades as a real positive for March, but I would have thought the higher low-NA EUV and immersion would have led to higher gross margins. I understand you're adding headcount, but that still seems pretty severe. So wondering if there's anything else in that mix that's driving that change.

我想第一個問題回到毛利率。如果我們把 3 月與 6 月拆開來看，3 月你們來自 High-NA 的營收是零，而我認為 6 月的數字中有包含一些。所以我理解升級（upgrades）對 3 月是很大的正面因素，但我原本以為較高的低 NA EUV 與浸潤式（immersion）占比會帶來更高的毛利率。我理解你們正在增加人力，但看起來仍然相當劇烈。所以想請問，組合（mix）裡是否還有其他因素在推動這個變化？

No, there's nothing in the mix really, C.J. It really is down to the elements that you just referred to. So a few puts and takes, but the primary ones being the very high-margin elements in the upgrade business that we had in Q1. We're not counting on such a strong pattern in the upgrade business in Q2. So that's an important element.

沒有，C.J.，組合面其實沒有其他因素。確實就是你剛提到的那些要素所致。有一些正反拉扯，但主要因素是我們在第一季的升級業務中，有非常高毛利的項目。我們不預期第二季的升級業務會延續那麼強的走勢，所以這是一個重要因素。

And then indeed, to the point that I made earlier on, the increase in headcount that we're going through to prepare for upticks in -- for upgrades in the move rate. So it's really those elements as a result of which we're now narrowing the bandwidth for this particular quarter to 51% and 52%.

然後確實，如我先前提到的，我們正在增加人力，以便為出貨節奏提升所帶來的——升級量的上升做準備。所以就是這些因素，使得我們把本季的區間收斂到 51% 到 52%。

Of course, you would see that the second half of the year, that volume is more skewed towards the second half of the year, right, if you take -- if you look at our guidance. So it's also appropriate to see more of the benefits of the increase of the ramp that we're doing in that -- in the second half of the year. As a result of that, we maintain the guidance for the full year at 51% to 53%.

當然，如果你看——如果你看我們的指引，你會看到下半年那個量更偏向下半年，對吧。因此，也合理會在——在下半年看到我們正在進行的爬坡所帶來的增量效益更為顯著。基於此，我們維持全年毛利率指引在 51% 到 53%。

Perfect. Makes sense. And I guess as a follow-up, Christophe, to try to talk about the supply side, obviously, undershipping end demand today. Curious how you're working internally at ASML outside of headcount? What kind of things are you doing to help drive productivity and extra supply?

完美。有道理。我想追問一下，Christophe，談談供給端：顯然你們目前出貨低於終端需求。好奇 ASML 內部除了增加人力之外，你們是如何運作的？你們在做哪些事情來提升生產力並增加供給？

And also with your supply chain, particularly around the optics and mirror front, what is necessary there? And if you are considering 80-plus EUV, what does that mean from an immersion unit perspective in '27?

另外在供應鏈方面，特別是光學與反射鏡這一端，需要做些什麼？以及如果你們考慮 80 台以上的 EUV，從 2027 年的浸潤式機台（immersion unit）角度來看，這代表什麼？

Yes. So I think we are working on many, many fronts, I would say. And you mentioned the supply chain. I think we have been mostly explaining in the last few years that we were preparing the supply chain basically to be able to go to a capability of 90 on low NA and to a capability of 600 for deep UV, total deep UV. And I think what we see in these ramps is that a lot of the preparation is paying off.

是的。所以我想我們在很多很多面向上同時推進。你提到了供應鏈。我想我們在過去幾年大多在說明，我們一直在為供應鏈做準備，基本上要能達到低 NA 90 台的能力，以及深紫外（DUV）總計 600 台的能力。而我想我們在這些爬坡中看到，許多準備正在開始產生效果。

So I think that, of course, you always have challenge with the supply chain. But I will say, so far, our supply chain has been able to support our move rate increase quarter by quarter. And that includes, by the way, Zeiss to name them, that include the optic, where I think we had major challenges a few years ago in the previous ramps. I think we are in a much better shape there. I think that's also true with what we have prepared in terms of capacity here in ASML.

所以我想，當然，供應鏈總是會有挑戰。但我會說，到目前為止，我們的供應鏈一直能夠支持我們逐季提升出貨節奏。順帶一提，這也包括像 Zeiss 這樣的夥伴，也包括光學端；我想在前幾次爬坡、幾年前我們在那裡曾遇到重大挑戰。我認為我們現在的狀況好很多。我想這也同樣適用於我們在 ASML 內部所準備的產能。

So I'm talking about the space we need to build the tools, both CV and deep UV. And this And this allow us, Roger mentioned that to basically now add the people we will need to meet the move rate that is required.

所以我指的是我們建造設備所需的空間，包含 EUV 與 DUV。而這——這讓我們能夠，如 Roger 所提到的，基本上現在去增加我們為滿足所需出貨節奏而需要的人力。

The other element I'd like to stress, we also talked a lot about the 3800E in the last few years. As you have noticed, the maturity of the tool is in a much better place than it was a year ago, which also allow us to make great progress on cycle time in our factory and of course, shorter cycle time give us opportunity for more tools. So we have many, many parameters that we drive, I will say, all at the same time, very aggressively basically to get more outputs.

另外一個我想強調的要素是，我們在過去幾年也談了很多 3800E。如你所注意到的，這台設備的成熟度比一年前好很多，這也讓我們在工廠的週期時間（cycle time）上取得很大進展；當然，更短的週期時間讓我們有機會產出更多設備。所以我們有非常非常多的參數同時在推動；我會說，我們基本上是以非常積極的方式同時推進，來取得更多產出。

That's true for EUV. That's true for deep UV. '27 is a bit far for deep UV. So I think that the expectation, as I mentioned before, is that the number of deep UV tool, the number of immersion tools, the demand there will scale pretty much with what we see on.

這對 EUV 也是如此。這對深紫外（DUV）也是如此。對深紫外而言，'27 還有點遠。所以我認為，如我先前提到的，深紫外機台的數量、浸潤式機台的數量，以及那邊的需求，將會大致隨著我們所看到的情況而擴大。

I think, it's also important to recognize, C.J., that -- and Christophe said it, we are working with customers to understand what the capacity requirements are that they have. And you're very much focusing on unit numbers. I would say there's a lot more that we're doing to give customers their productivity.

我認為，同時也很重要的是要認知到，C.J.，也就是——Christophe 也提到——我們正與客戶合作，以了解他們的產能需求是什麼。而你非常聚焦在機台數量。我會說，我們為了提升客戶生產力所做的事情要多得多。

First off, and Christophe said it, the maturity of the tool is going up, but also the productivity of the tool is going up, right? So the fact that we're now looking at a tool from 220 to 230 wafers per hour. As you know, in 2027, we're going to introduce the F model that gets you to 160 wafers per hour. So you have the unit numbers that everyone is very much focused on, but then you should also look at the progress that we're making in terms of productivity.

首先，正如 Christophe 所說，機台的成熟度在提升，但機台的生產力也在提升，對吧？因此，我們現在看到機台從每小時 220 片提升到 230 片晶圓。如你所知，在 2027 年，我們將推出 F 型號，可讓你達到每小時 160 片晶圓。所以大家非常關注機台數量，但你也應該看看我們在生產力方面所取得的進展。

And if you take that into consideration, last year, we had 44 tools. if you are just looking at 80 tools, we say at least 80, but if you just look at 80 tools, those 80 tools give you double the wafer per hour capacity that we would have shipped in 2025.

如果把這點納入考量，去年我們有 44 台機台。若你只看 80 台機台——我們說至少 80 台——但如果你只看 80 台，那 80 台所提供的每小時晶圓產能，會是我們在 2025 年出貨的兩倍。

And on top of that, we're helping customers upgrade their installed base. So as Christophe said, we're really working hand in glove with the customers to look at what is your capacity need, what's the easiest way and also the most economical way for you to get to the productivity that you need. And we're executing on all fronts on availability, on productivity, on unit numbers, capacity, and then upgrading the installed base.

此外，我們也在協助客戶升級其已安裝機台（installed base）。因此，如 Christophe 所說，我們確實與客戶緊密合作，一起檢視：你的產能需求是什麼？對你而言，最容易、也最具經濟效益的方式是什麼，才能達到你所需要的生產力。我們在各方面都在執行：可用率、生產力、機台數量、產能，以及升級已安裝機台。

Yes. And the last point I would make because Roger make a very good point also on those productivity upgrades, which you heard in the introduction, we have accelerated. I think our customers are extremely happy with that because this allow them to get capacity right away. When you buy a new system, you have to wait a bit. In this case, and I think this is reflected in the strength of the installed base sales.

是的。我最後還想補充一點，因為 Roger 也對那些生產力升級提出了非常好的觀點——你在開場介紹中也聽到了——我們已經加速推進。我認為客戶對此非常滿意，因為這讓他們能立刻取得產能。當你購買新系統時，你得等一段時間。而在這種情況下，我想這也反映在已安裝機台銷售的強勁表現上。

This is something we can provide immediately most of the time, by the way, with the software switch and some qualification. So I think Roger is right. I think in our case, capacity is a lot more than one pony trick. And we feel quite blessed that we have all of this because we have many, many tools we can use to basically make sure we deliver what our customer needs.

順帶一提，多數時候我們可以立即提供這項服務，只需要透過軟體切換並進行一些認證。所以我認為 Roger 說得對。我認為就我們而言，產能不只是單一招數。而我們也很慶幸擁有這一切，因為我們有非常多工具可用，基本上能確保交付客戶所需要的東西。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

Sandeep Deshpande，摩根大通（JPMorgan）。

My first question is regarding your deep UV capacity. I mean when you look at it, Christophe, I mean, in the last up cycle, you sold a lot more deep UV outside China than you are selling in the last few years. As you go into the next build cycle, don't you think that you will need to add more deep UV capacity if China remains at these sort of levels that you're seeing?

我的第一個問題是關於你們的深紫外（DUV）產能。我的意思是，Christophe，當你回頭看上一個上行週期，你們在中國以外賣出的深紫外機台，比過去幾年賣出的要多得多。當你進入下一個建置週期時，如果中國仍維持在你們目前看到的這種水準，你不認為你們將需要增加更多深紫外產能嗎？

I'm not sure, Sandeep, what you mean by the next build cycle. What are you referring to?

Sandeep，我不太確定你所說的下一個建置週期是什麼意思。你指的是什麼？

So what I mean is into '27, when you look into '27, where you're seeing these 8V tools at the minimum that you're going to ship, if you see the number of deep UV tools you sold for the whatever number of EUV tools you sold between -- in the last big capacity build cycle because there's not been a lot of massive capacity building that you're now going to see in the industry over the next two, three years. Would you say that you would need more deep UV capacity? Because you have about 600 tool capacity at this point. Is that enough for you in terms of deep UV?

我的意思是，展望到 '27，也就是看向 '27，當你看到你們將出貨的 EUV 機台至少 8X 台（最低值）時，如果你把深紫外機台的銷售數量，與你們在上一個大型產能建置週期中 EUV 機台的銷售數量相比——因為目前產業並沒有進行大量的產能建置，但接下來兩、三年你們將會看到——你會不會說你們需要更多深紫外產能？因為你們目前大約有 600 台的產能。就深紫外而言，這對你們夠嗎？

Well, I think 600 is for total deep UV. And I think that when we look at the total, I think we still feel pretty good about that. And a bit like EUV, we have other means to play with that number if needed. When it comes to immersion, I think -- well, we believe that for non-Chinese customer, the demand on immersion will scale with the demand for EUV because, as you know, there is a pretty clear relationship between the two. And if you had EUV capacity, you would be also adding some immersion capacity.

嗯，我認為 600 是指深紫外的總量。而我認為，當我們看總量時，我們仍然對此感到相當有信心。而且有點像 EUV，如果有需要，我們也有其他方式可以調整這個數字。至於浸潤式（immersion），我想——我們相信，對非中國客戶而言，浸潤式的需求會隨著 EUV 的需求而擴大，因為如你所知，兩者之間有相當明確的關係。如果你增加 EUV 產能，你也會同時增加一些浸潤式產能。

So I would say we pay for sure, the same amount of attention to our deep UV ramp, our immersion ramp that we do on EUV because the two are, of course, extremely linked, especially when it comes to non-China.

所以我會說，我們對深紫外擴產、浸潤式擴產所投入的關注程度，確實與我們對 EUV 的關注一樣，因為兩者當然高度連動，尤其是在非中國市場。

And I mean maybe, Roger, I would like to go back to this question of mix and ASP. I mean you have indicated for this year that you've got more 3,600, there are some 3,600 shipping this year versus next year, there should not be any 3600. There should also be this next generation of E and then the F, which starts shipping next year. How should we be looking at the mix on the mix of EUV tools that you ship next year and how that will drive your revenue growth into EUV next year?

另外，Roger，我想回到這個關於產品組合（mix）與 ASP 的問題。你們已指出今年會有更多 3,600（機型）出貨，相較於明年；明年應該不會有任何 3600。也會有下一代的 E，然後是 F，從明年開始出貨。我們應該如何看待你們明年 EUV 機台的出貨組合，以及這將如何推動你們明年 EUV 的營收成長？

So this year, as you say, the lion's share is still Es, right? So there is a bit of these in there, but the lion's share is clearly still Es. And I would say about 20% maybe is Es and the rest is E. For next year, I think hardly, if any, Ds. And I would say the lion's share of it is Es.

所以今年，如你所說，主力仍然是 E（機型），對吧？所以裡面會有一些（其他機型），但主力很明顯仍是 E。我會說大概 20% 可能是 Es，其餘是 E。明年，我認為幾乎沒有——如果有的話——D。而我會說主力會是 Es。

There will, of course, be Fs. We will introduce the F, but just the way customers are planning to ramp their nodes, I believe that the lion's share of the tools by for 2027 will still be. So there will be Es at that point with the high throughput that we just talked about, the 230, that will go ex-factory at that level. And there will be a number of apps, but that will be a clear one.

當然會有 F。我們會導入 F，但就客戶規劃其節點爬坡（ramp）的方式來看，我相信到 2027 年，機台的主力仍將是（E 系列）。因此，屆時會有我們剛剛談到的高吞吐量 Es，也就是 230（片/小時），會以那個水準從工廠出貨（ex-factory）。也會有一些（其他）應用，但那會是一個明確的主力。

So would you say that your ASPs will grow next year because of how the mix is shifting from this year to next year?

所以你會說，由於產品組合從今年轉向明年，你們的 ASP 明年會成長嗎？

Yes. Yes, yes, clearly. So the mix next year is more favorable than this year. No Ds and a bunch of Fs. So clearly, the ASP next year will improve over this year.

會。會，會，很明顯。所以明年的組合比今年更有利。沒有 D，且有一批 F。所以很明顯，明年的 ASP 會比今年改善。

Francois Bouvignies, UBS.

Francois Bouvignies，瑞銀（UBS）。

My first question is on High-NA. I mean, a bit beyond '27, there is obviously a very high demand in advanced logic and memory. And I was wondering if High-NA could play a role in that tight market as High-NA could save low-NA capacity. I mean, Christophe, you referred three mask, I mean, one instead of three mask with High-NA. So if we go into '27, '28, '29, 2030, could that tightness help adoption of High-NA saying I'm not going to build 90, 100 tools of low-NA necessarily if High-NA can actually replace with the mask.

我的第一個問題是關於 High-NA。我的意思是，稍微超過 '27 之後，先進邏輯與記憶體顯然會有非常高的需求。我在想 High-NA 是否能在這個緊俏的市場中發揮作用，因為 High-NA 可以節省 low-NA 的產能。我的意思是，Christophe，你提到三張光罩——也就是用 High-NA 一張取代三張光罩。所以如果我們進入 '27、'28、'29、2030，這種緊俏是否能推動 High-NA 的採用，也就是說，如果 High-NA 真的能以光罩數量的方式取代，我未必需要去建置 90、100 台 low-NA 的設備。

So I was just wondering if it could help adoption in other words, High-NA with the tightness of the market.

所以我只是想知道，換句話說，在市場緊俏的情況下，是否能促進 High-NA 的採用。

Yes. I think, Francois, I think it's a bit too early to answer the question. I think what we see today is that several of our customers are going to test High-NA on real product wafer. So it means basically they demonstrate for themselves the ability to use this tool on real product. We see that with some logic customer.

是的。我想，Francois，我覺得現在回答這個問題還有點太早。我們目前看到的是，我們有幾位客戶將在真實產品晶圓上測試 High-NA。這基本上意味著，他們要自行驗證使用這台設備在真實產品上的能力。我們在一些邏輯客戶那邊看到這樣的情況。

We see that with some DRAM customers. That's a discussion that is ongoing pretty strongly right now. So they continue to make step basically to have this option if they want.

我們也在一些 DRAM 客戶那邊看到。這項討論目前正在非常積極地進行中。所以他們持續採取步驟，基本上是為了在需要時能有這個選項。

And of course, if the maturity of the tool allow that to use the tool, I would say, whenever they want. And especially when it comes to DRAM, I will say the threshold to start using High-NA on existing product is pretty low. So I think that's a possibility. I think that as things evolve in the next few months, a combination of, again, capacity requirement that continue to be strong plus progress on High-NA. I will not exclude that.

當然，如果設備的成熟度允許使用，我會說，他們想用的時候就可以用。尤其談到 DRAM，我會說在既有產品上開始使用 High-NA 的門檻相當低。所以我認為這是有可能的。我認為在接下來幾個月事情的演進中，若再度出現產能需求持續強勁，加上 High-NA 的進展，我不會排除這種情況。

I think it's just a bit too early to respond to the question by the affirmative today.

我認為今天要肯定地回答這個問題，還是有點太早。

And maybe, Roger, it's a follow-up on this F model and maybe the ISP. So Actually, Christophe, you talked about 260 wafer per hour, which is a nice increase from the 250 originally, which is roughly 15% higher, 15 higher than the E model. So is it the right ASP increase we should expect 15% higher throughput and 15% higher ASP? Or it could be more because you also increase or improve availability and overlay like you suggested. So how should we think about the ASP of the F versus the E?

另外，Roger，這可能是關於這個 F 機型以及可能的 ISP 的追問。所以其實，Christophe，你提到每小時 260 片晶圓，這比原本的 250 有不錯的提升，約比 E 機型高出 15%，多 15。所以我們應該預期正確的 ASP（平均售價）提升是：吞吐量高 15%，ASP 也高 15% 嗎？或者可能更高，因為你也如你所說提升或改善了可用率與疊對（overlay）。所以我們該如何看待 F 相對於 E 的 ASP？

Yes. All of that is true, but you also know that we typically share the benefits between the customers and ourselves. But you're right that historically, the correlation between throughput and ASP is very, very strong. So we're not negotiating in this call with our customers, but I think the proxy approach that you just followed doesn't lead you to a very bad outcome.

是的。這些都沒錯，但你也知道，我們通常會在客戶與我們之間分享這些效益。不過你說得對，歷史上吞吐量與 ASP 之間的相關性非常、非常強。所以我們不會在這通電話上跟客戶談判，但我認為你剛才採用的代理（proxy）方法，不會導致很差的結果。

Didier Scemama, Bank of America.

Didier Scemama，美國銀行（Bank of America）。

I just wanted to sort of get your thoughts maybe on the numbers you've given at the CMD November '24. You said 160,000 wafer start per month capacity addition in DRAM per year, '25 to 2030, and I think 200,000 in advanced logic. How do you feel about those numbers? Were we in the right ballpark '25? And how are we looking at '26 and beyond? And I've got a follow up.

我只是想大概聽聽你們對於 2024 年 11 月 CMD 上給出的那些數字的看法。你們說 DRAM 每年新增每月 160,000 片晶圓開工（wafer start per month）的產能，期間是 '25 到 2030；我記得先進邏輯是 200,000。你們對這些數字感覺如何？我們在 '25 的估計是在正確的範圍內嗎？那 '26 以及之後看起來如何？我還有一個追問。

Well, I think that we will all agree that things have changed a bit with AI in the last couple of years. So I think we have to go back and mostly look at those numbers again. I think we are going to most probably share the results for analysis next year in the Capital Market Day. I would say most probably the place where we see the biggest change is DRAM. I think we have talked about that for a few quarters.

嗯，我想我們都同意，過去幾年因為 AI，情況確實有些改變。所以我認為我們必須回頭，重新檢視那些數字。我想我們很可能會在明年的資本市場日（Capital Market Day）分享分析結果。我會說，我們看到變化最大的地方很可能是在 DRAM。我想我們已經談了好幾個季度。

I think DRAM is very strong right now. Most probably the added capacity per year is above the number we have discussed at least this year. And we have to try to understand exactly how this will really play on the longer term. So I think too early to say a lot have changed in the last a few quarters.

我認為 DRAM 現在非常強勁。很可能每年的新增產能高於我們先前討論的數字，至少在今年是如此。而我們必須試著理解，這在更長期究竟會如何發展。所以我認為現在還太早下定論；過去幾個季度確實改變很多。

If you remember two quarters ago, we were having a bit of a different discussion on the market. So give us a bit of time. I think we are most probably going to come back to all of you with our latest view on the long-term market next year at the Capital Market Day. So give us a bit of time to really digest everything that is happening and try to translate that into a bit of a long-term view of the market.

如果你記得兩個季度前，我們對市場的討論還有點不同。所以請給我們一點時間。我想我們很可能會在明年的資本市場日，帶著我們對長期市場的最新看法回來跟各位分享。所以請給我們一些時間，真正消化正在發生的一切，並嘗試把它轉化成對市場的長期觀點。

I mean what I'm hearing is that you're tracking towards the upper end of your guidance for 2030, but not going to put words in your mouth. Maybe a follow-up on that, maybe for Roger. I think you said 56% to 60% on EUR44 billion to EUR60 billion of revenue. So let's take a wild guess, let's say, you are above EUR60 billion. Do you think your gross margins can be above that range? Or are they constrained by other elements that we have to take into account?

我的意思是，我聽起來你們正朝向 2030 年指引的上緣前進，但我不想把話塞到你嘴裡。也許就此追問一下，可能給 Roger。我想你說在 440 億歐元到 600 億歐元營收下，毛利率是 56% 到 60%。那我們大膽猜一下，假設你們高於 600 億歐元。你認為毛利率能高於那個區間嗎？還是會受到其他我們必須納入考量的因素所限制？

I think the same applies to what Christophe was just saying. It's very difficult to take out one element. I've given the moving parts in the past, the moving parts on the gross margin. A lot of it is an EUV, and it's on the one hand, us improving the productivity of the tool, and you see how well we're executing on that front. And that, to the earlier question, comes with a commensurate increase in the ASP and leads to gross margin improvement. So that's an important element.

我想這同樣適用於 Christophe 剛才說的。要把單一因素抽出來看是非常困難的。我過去已經說過毛利率的變動因素（moving parts）。其中很大一部分是 EUV：一方面是我們提升設備的生產力，而你也看到我們在這方面執行得多好。而這也呼應前面的問題，會伴隨相應的 ASP 提升，並帶來毛利率改善。所以這是一個重要因素。

A second important element is High-NA volume. And DJ, that is very critical, right, because the number of tools that we have at that stage and the number of tools that can absorb the fixed cost associated with High-NA, obviously, is very critical in determining what your gross margin is on that front. then we see continued improvement possibility in the installed base, and we have some ideas on deep UV. It's really in that quarter that things need to be addressed. But as Christophe said, let's wait for the -- for next year where we have our Capital Markets Day and can revisit all of these assumptions.

第二個重要因素是 High-NA 的出貨量（volume）。而 DJ，這非常關鍵，對吧，因為在那個階段我們有多少台設備，以及有多少台設備能吸收與 High-NA 相關的固定成本，顯然對於決定那一塊的毛利率非常關鍵。接著我們也看到已裝機基礎（installed base）仍有持續改善的可能性，而且我們在深紫外（deep UV）方面也有一些想法。真正需要處理的就是在那個季度的這些事情。但如 Christophe 所說，讓我們等到明年——在資本市場日，我們可以重新檢視所有這些假設。

Alexander Duval, Goldman Sachs.

Alexander Duval，高盛（Goldman Sachs）。

Yes. A year ago, I think there was some discussion in the market about a market structure for customers where ASML had essentially one very significant customer in the foundry side and two others lagging significantly. Since then, some have seen progress from two of the players on foundry relative to where we were in the past. So curious to what extent you're baking in a contribution from those foundry players in the coming year. And to the extent that those players are ultimately successful, how beneficial could this be in terms of market inefficiency?

是的。一年前，我想市場上有一些討論，關於客戶端的市場結構：在晶圓代工（foundry）這一側，ASML 基本上有一個非常重要的客戶，另外兩家則明顯落後。從那之後，有些人看到其中兩家代工業者相較於過去有所進展。所以我想了解，你們在來年預期中，將這些代工業者的貢獻納入（baking in）到什麼程度。以及如果這些業者最終成功，從市場低效率（market inefficiency）的角度來看，這可能會帶來多大的好處？

Secondly, as a quick follow up. There have been news articles talking about how ASML is looking to do more to help the hybrid bonding process. I wondered if you could help us understand to what extent you see hybrid bonding is important and how you think about the ways that ASML could contribute to customer efforts related to this?

其次，作為一個快速追問。最近有新聞報導提到，ASML 正在尋求做更多事情來協助混合鍵合（hybrid bonding）製程。我想請您幫我們理解，您認為混合鍵合的重要性到什麼程度，以及您如何看待 ASML 能以哪些方式對客戶在這方面的努力做出貢獻？

Maybe I will start with the second one. I think we explained a few months ago. In fact, we started a Capital Market Day that we thought that 3D integration will become an important part of the tools our customers have basically to deliver density either for logic or for DRAM. And as a result, we started to create all kind of activities in ASML in order to support our customers there. You talked about hybrid bonding.

也許我先回答第二個問題。我想我們在幾個月前已經解釋過。事實上，在我們的資本市場日（Capital Market Day）上，我們認為 3D 整合將成為客戶用來提升密度的重要工具之一，無論是邏輯晶片或 DRAM。因此，我們在 ASML 內部啟動了各式各樣的活動，以便在那方面支援客戶。你提到了混合鍵合。

I'd like to mention that one of the things we see happening today first is wafer-to-wafer bonding -- which is going to be used by DRAM biologic and where we think that our holistic lithography product, meaning the combination of metrology and process control our tool can help enormously our customer basically to adopt this new technology and deliver basically the performance they need on their wafer.

我想提到，我們目前首先看到正在發生的一件事是晶圓對晶圓鍵合（wafer-to-wafer bonding）——這將被 DRAM 與邏輯採用；而我們認為，我們的整體式微影（holistic lithography）產品，也就是量測（metrology）與製程控制（process control）的組合，能夠在客戶導入這項新技術時提供極大的幫助，並在其晶圓上交付他們所需要的效能。

I think we also announced that we were entering advanced packaging with the XT260. So this has been an important tool. We continue to see good traction there. And on top of that, we are looking again at a few more things. Some of them have to do with lithography in advanced packaging.

我想我們也宣布過，我們以 XT260 進入先進封裝（advanced packaging）。因此這一直是一項重要的設備。我們持續看到那方面有良好的進展。此外，我們也正在重新檢視一些其他事項。其中有些與先進封裝中的微影相關。

And for process such as hybrid bonding, I think we are continuing to look at the opportunity to support our customer in their activity, and that can be done in many different forms. I think right now, we're looking still at a limited amount of use practically of hybrid bonding, especially in front end. So not too much activity with our customer, but I will say some discussion for the future on how maybe we could help there. So that's the first part.

至於像混合鍵合這類製程，我認為我們會持續尋找機會，在客戶的相關活動中提供支援，而這可以透過許多不同形式來進行。我想目前我們仍看到混合鍵合在實務上的使用量有限，特別是在前段製程（front end）。因此與客戶的實際合作活動還不算多，但我會說，我們已就未來可能如何在那方面提供協助進行一些討論。以上是第一部分。

Yes. Back to the question you had on the foundry business and the potential for Samsung and Intel. It's pretty clear that the demand in the foundry business is huge and is outweighing the supply, right? So that leaves a bit of room for others than the market leader. And I think that's room that the other players are trying to enter into.

是的。回到你關於晶圓代工（foundry）業務，以及三星與英特爾潛在機會的問題。很明顯，代工業務的需求非常龐大，而且需求正超過供給，對吧？因此，除了市場領導者之外，也就留出了一些空間給其他業者。我認為其他玩家正試圖進入的就是這個空間。

We all know about the plans of Samsung and Taylor. So that's real. And of course, that also requires shipment for us, which is happening. the US player in this business already has quite some capacity, I would say. So we've said it before that for this year, we're not counting on a huge number of shipments in that regard because they already have quite a bit of capacity.

我們都知道三星以及 Taylor 的計畫。所以那是真實存在的。當然，這也需要我們出貨，而這正在發生。至於這個業務中的美國玩家，我會說他們已經具備相當的產能。因此我們之前也說過，就今年而言，我們不預期在那方面會有大量出貨，因為他們已經有相當多的產能。

Then you ask about the longer term. Of course, the market that is characterized by multiple players at least will sort of guarantee innovation. And that, I think, is what is important. I think the market leader has been tremendously innovative. So you cannot say that even in the market that was dominated by one player, you would still see a lot of innovation.

接著你問到更長期。當然，一個至少由多家業者構成的市場，某種程度上將能保證創新。而我認為這點很重要。我認為市場領導者一直以來都極具創新能力。所以你不能說，即便是在由單一業者主導的市場中，就不會看到大量創新。

I think that's what we've seen in the past couple of years. But having three players in there will probably guarantee even more innovation. And I ultimately think that, that is good for the ecosystem.

我想這正是我們在過去幾年所看到的。但若有三家業者參與，可能會帶來更多創新。而我最終認為，這對整個生態系是有利的。

Chris Caso, Wolfe Research.

Chris Caso，Wolfe Research。

Much has been discussed on the call about your own actions to increase your capacity to supply. Could you speak about your customers' capacity constraints, specifically the clean room constraints as well? And I guess this is perhaps a better question for next year, perhaps. But to what extent is your ability to ship constrained by your own ability to produce tools, your customers' clean room space? Or is demand going to be the constraint? Is it going to be a supply-constrained environment or a demand-constrained environment?

在這通電話會議中，大家已經談了很多關於你們自身為提升供應能力所採取的行動。你能否談談你們客戶端的產能限制，特別是無塵室（clean room）的限制？我想這也許更適合明年再問。但你們的出貨能力在多大程度上會受到你們自身製造設備能力、以及客戶無塵室空間的限制？還是說需求才會是限制？未來會是供給受限的環境，還是需求受限的環境？

Well, I think we talked quite a bit about that last quarter where I think we saw a lot of demand coming in. So this was a bit coming very, very fast. I think we mentioned that the clean room capacity was one of the factor, if not the key factor on what we could do this year. I think you have seen us increasing our range for 2026, which means that we have progress there. We have even increased the upper part of the range.

嗯，我想我們在上一季已經談了不少，當時我們看到大量需求湧入。所以需求來得非常、非常快。我想我們提到過，無塵室產能是我們今年能做多少的因素之一，甚至可能是關鍵因素。我想你也看到我們提高了 2026 年的區間預期，這表示我們在那方面有進展。我們甚至也提高了區間上緣。

So I think that we see that the plan for 2026 are really solidifying, getting more and more clarity about the number of pedestal that will be available when. So that's clear.

所以我認為，我們看到 2026 年的計畫正在真正落實，對於何時會有多少 pedestal（機台基座/安裝位）可用，愈來愈清楚。這點很明確。

And when it comes to 2027, I think that well, there is supply limitation right now. I think I mentioned before, we see our customers having a lot less hesitation to really accelerate their capital expenditure. I think you, of course, have noticed that our DRAM customers are doing extremely well, thanks to the price of memory right now.

至於 2027 年，我想目前確實存在供應限制。我之前也提過，我們看到客戶在加速資本支出方面的猶豫少了很多。當然你也注意到，我們的 DRAM 客戶目前表現非常好，這要歸功於當前記憶體價格。

And I think Roger just mentioned for logic also that the capacity limitation is quite high. So I would say there is no hesitation whatsoever in the mind of our customer at this point of time, not only to invest also because sometimes they even get guarantee from their own customer on the investment, but also as a result to move as quickly as possible.

而我想 Roger 剛才也提到，就邏輯而言，產能限制也相當高。所以我會說，現階段客戶心態上完全沒有任何猶豫，不僅願意投資——因為有時他們甚至能從自己的客戶那裡取得投資保證——也因此希望盡可能快速推進。

So that's the dynamic we are in. And I think that's why we see our outlook improving this year, and we continue to have, I would say, very, very active discussion with our customers to prepare next year. But I would say right now, everyone is really moving towards the more, the faster, the better.

所以這就是我們所處的動態。我想這也是為什麼我們看到今年的展望在改善，而且我們仍持續與客戶進行非常、非常積極的討論，以準備明年。但我會說，現在大家都在朝向「越多、越快、越好」的方向前進。

Right. That's clear. As a follow-up to that, given what's happening in DRAM now, could you speak to what that means for litho intensity? And we've seen one of the remedies for the tight supply is migrating to some of the new nodes. How does that affect litho intensity? And does it have any effect on High-NA adoption at your DRAM customers in an effort to address some of the supply constraints?

了解。這很清楚。作為後續追問，鑑於目前 DRAM 的情況，你能否談談這對微影強度（litho intensity）意味著什麼？我們看到緊俏供應的一個解方是轉移到一些新節點。這會如何影響微影強度？而這是否會影響 DRAM 客戶採用 High-NA 的進程，以因應部分供應限制？

Well, I think first, for DRAM, I think DRAM has been a bit the perfect storm for ASML because, of course, we have this capacity buildup. But as we mentioned a few times, we have seen a major adoption of EUV in DRAM in 2025. And you may have noticed that our, I will say, US DRAM customer also made this announcement that they were shifting also pretty strongly on EUV. And the reason for that is, of course, performance, but it's also capacity because if you are going to use more EUV layers, you are going to need less multi-patterning and multi-patterning takes a lot of space also in the fab.

嗯，我想首先，就 DRAM 而言，DRAM 對 ASML 來說有點像是「完美風暴」，因為當然我們正在進行產能擴建。但如同我們多次提到的，我們在 2025 年看到 DRAM 對 EUV 的採用大幅提升。而你可能也注意到，我們的——我會說——美國 DRAM 客戶也宣布他們也正相當大幅度地轉向 EUV。其原因當然是效能，但也與產能有關，因為如果你要使用更多 EUV 層，你就會需要更少的多重圖形化（multi-patterning），而多重圖形化在晶圓廠中也會占用大量空間。

So I think this is also definitely another argument in favor of EUV. I think this was mentioned, by the way, by this US customer in their call. So I would say the first results of that is, first, more adoption of low-NA EUV, which I think is also translated into the number Roger was mentioning before with, I would say, a very high point on our memory business this year. That's also true for EUV.

所以我認為這也絕對是另一個支持 EUV 的論點。順帶一提，我想這位美國客戶在他們的電話會議中也提到過。因此我會說，這帶來的第一個結果是：首先，更多採用低 NA EUV；我認為這也反映在 Roger 先前提到的數字上，也就是今年我們記憶體業務會有一個非常高的水準。這對 EUV 也是如此。

Now of course, what's true for low-NA today, I think we expect to be true for high-NA in the future. So it's, again, not prime time for high-NA today. But I can only say that more low-NA EUV adoption today can only help for more high-NA adoption in the future because the logic of high-NA is the same. It's going to single expose, simplifying the process, getting more space, et cetera, et cetera.

當然，今天對低 NA 成立的事情，我想我們預期未來也會對高 NA 成立。所以，再次強調，今天高 NA 還不是主流時機。但我只能說，今天更多採用低 NA EUV，只會有助於未來更多採用高 NA，因為高 NA 的邏輯是相同的。它將能一次曝光（single expose），簡化製程、騰出更多空間，等等等等。

So I think DRAM has been really a good story when it comes to litho intensity in '25. And I think it's translating very strongly into EUV demand this year and most probably in the years to come.

所以我認為，就 2025 年的微影強度而言，DRAM 確實是一個很好的故事。而且我認為這今年非常強勁地轉化為 EUV 需求，並且很可能在未來幾年也是如此。

Tammy Qiu, Berenberg.

Tammy Qiu，Berenberg。

So firstly, on the DRAM sector or memory sector in general. So we have learned that the memory sector has been all signing those three to five years agreement. So with your customers' visibility higher on their own end market, do you see any behavioral change from your side, i.e., they are more willing to give you more visibility of order for your tools going forward?

首先，關於 DRAM 產業或更廣義的記憶體產業。我們了解到，記憶體產業一直在簽署那些三到五年的協議。那麼，隨著你們客戶對其自身終端市場的能見度提高，你們是否看到他們行為上有任何改變？也就是說，他們是否更願意在未來就你們設備的訂單提供更多能見度給你們？

And also at the same time, because of they are currently desperate for capacity, do you see any room for charge more or upgrade more, i.e., DRAM business or memory business will be more profitable for you and higher visibility than it was previously?

同時，因為他們目前非常迫切需要產能，你們是否看到有任何空間可以收取更高費用或做更多升級？也就是說，DRAM 業務或記憶體業務對你們而言會比以前更有利潤、且能見度更高嗎？

Yes. So in terms of visibility and behavioral change, the visibility to us, customers are very, very open. By the way, that's also the case on the logic side. But very -- customers are very open to us, and they're very openly discussing with us also their expansion plans for this year, but also beyond. It's also clear that if you look at the scale of the fabs that they're building, it's pretty significant, right?

是的。就能見度與行為改變而言，客戶對我們的能見度是非常、非常開放的。順帶一提，在邏輯晶片那邊也是如此。但客戶對我們非常開放，也非常坦率地與我們討論他們今年、以及更長期的擴產計畫。而且很明顯，如果你看他們正在建造的晶圓廠規模，是相當可觀的，對吧？

So if you look at the more recent fabs that are being built by our customers, it's pretty clear that they allow for quite some expansion. So if you talk about behavioral change, I think that's probably the number one behavioral change out there. Vis-a-vis us, they're just very, very open in terms of how they see the market and how they see their further capacity expansion.

所以如果你看我們客戶近期正在興建的晶圓廠，就很清楚它們允許相當程度的擴張。因此若談行為改變，我想這大概是最主要的一項改變。相對於我們而言，他們在如何看待市場、以及如何看待後續產能擴張方面，都非常、非常開放。

Now in our model of pricing, as you know, our model of pricing is not based on the squeeze that our customers find ourselves in. That's not the way we do business. The way we do business is that we look at the value that we provide to our customers, generation on generation, tool on tool, and we take our fair share in that. And you might say in the current climate, can't you squeeze out a little bit more? I understand that. But it's also true that when the market goes down a little bit and the customers are going through more difficult times that it also pays these fees.

至於我們的定價模式，如你所知，我們的定價模式並不是建立在客戶所處的「被擠壓」狀態上。我們不是這樣做生意的。我們做生意的方式是：我們看我們一代接一代、機台對機台為客戶提供的價值，並在其中取得我們合理的一部分。你可能會說，在目前的環境下，難道不能再多擠出一點嗎？我理解。但同樣也是真的：當市場稍微下行、客戶處於更艱難的時期時，這套模式也同樣適用。

So fundamentally, we believe that the model that we have is a fair model. It's also a model that is fair to all the players because I would find it difficult to explain why we're charging more in, let's say, the memory environment versus the logic environment. That's just not the way we do business. So we're very, very happy with the business model we have, which is based on the value of our tools, and we would gladly continue with that approach.

所以從根本上，我們相信我們的模式是一個公平的模式。這也是對所有參與者都公平的模式，因為我會覺得很難解釋為什麼我們在例如記憶體環境中要收得比邏輯環境更高。那不是我們做生意的方式。因此我們對現有的商業模式非常、非常滿意；它是以我們工具的價值為基礎，我們也很樂意持續採用這種做法。

Okay. And next one is on your 80 at least 80 capacity for 2027. So at least, if I understand correctly, is the 80 is based on what customers have told you for the time being. And is that at least based on customer is limited by clean room space so that they don't know and don't want to commit further or something else? What's driving that at least?

好的。下一個問題是關於你們 2027 年至少 80 的產能。所以「至少」——如果我理解正確的話，80 是基於客戶目前告訴你們的內容。那麼這個「至少」是否是因為客戶受限於無塵室空間，所以他們不確定、也不想進一步承諾？還是其他原因？是什麼在驅動這個「至少」？

That at least is the alignment that we currently have with customers, which takes on board their gauge of the market situation, their gauge of the progress that they're having in fab building and our gauge of the ability to -- what's the right way to give them capacity. I told you unit numbers is one way to provide capacity, but there is more. So this really is the alignment that we currently have based on the signals that they're providing us and what we think is the appropriate way to give them that capacity.

這個「至少」是我們目前與客戶達成的一致認知，它納入了他們對市場情勢的判斷、他們在建廠進度上的評估，以及我們對於——用什麼方式給他們產能才是正確方式——的評估。我告訴過你，機台數量是一種提供產能的方式，但還有更多方式。所以這確實是我們目前基於他們給我們的訊號，以及我們認為提供該產能的適當方式，而達成的對齊。

Lee Simpson, Morgan Stanley.

Lee Simpson，Morgan Stanley。

Maybe just a quick clarification question on the installed base management. I'm just trying to understand, well, I assume at least that most all of the outperformance in Q1 margin came from that. And that's largely because I think you said earlier, there was a high incidence of upgrade business that quarter and that most, if not all, of the rest of the year will be more of the maintenance type of business.

也許只是關於已裝機台管理（installed base management）的一個快速釐清問題。我只是想理解——我至少假設第一季毛利率的超預期表現大多都來自那一塊。而這主要是因為我想你先前說過，那一季升級業務的比重很高，而今年其餘時間大部分（如果不是全部）會更偏向維護型的業務。

No, that would not be fair. So we expect upgrade business to continue throughout the year. But even in the upgrade business, you have different margin profiles of the upgrade services that you provide. And it just happens to be that the business -- the installed base business that we had in Q1 just happened to be the kind of business that is associated with very, very high gross margins. No, no, we definitely expect the installed base business and the upgrade business in that installed base business to continue.

不，那樣說並不公平。我們預期升級業務會在全年持續。但即使在升級業務中，你所提供的升級服務也有不同的毛利率輪廓。而剛好第一季我們的已裝機台業務——那一季的已裝機台業務剛好是那種與非常、非常高的毛利率相關的業務。不、不，我們確實預期已裝機台業務，以及該已裝機台業務中的升級業務會持續。

That's also what you would expect in an environment like this where, as we said before, customers are really asking for upgrades. But even within the upgrade business, you have the ones primarily software-based, which come with very high gross margins and then ones with maybe a little bit lesser gross margins. That's the mix effect within the installed base that we were calling out.

這也符合你在這種環境下的預期，因為如我們先前所說，客戶確實在要求升級。但即使在升級業務內部，也有主要以軟體為基礎的升級，這類通常帶來非常高的毛利率；也有毛利率可能稍低一些的升級。這就是我們所提到的已裝機台業務內部的組合效應（mix effect）。

Maybe just on that mix effect, it does look still more and more the sort of warranty-like business that you have now with the installed base and EUVs coming through. So -- how much of a gap are we seeing closure between what is traditional maintenance and what is traditional upgrade cycle? Are we talking about less than 10 percentage points gap between those two elements now?

也許就那個組合效應來看，隨著已裝機台與 EUV 的貢獻增加，現在看起來越來越像你們所謂的類保固（warranty-like）業務。所以——我們看到傳統維護與傳統升級週期之間的差距縮小了多少？我們現在談的是這兩個項目之間的差距不到 10 個百分點嗎？

When you say 10 percentage points, you mean in terms of gross margin or what?

你說的 10 個百分點，是指毛利率方面，還是什麼？

In terms of gross margin, yes.

是的，指毛利率。

In terms of gross margin. I cannot say that, Lee. It's too diverse. As I just mentioned, the margin profile is very, very diverse. So it's very much dependent on what kind of upgrade business.

就毛利率而言。Lee，我不能那樣說。差異太大了。如我剛才提到的，毛利率輪廓非常、非常多樣。所以這非常取決於是哪一種升級業務。

I mean on the service front, we've given you updates in previous years on the progress that we're making on EUV service gross margin. So four, five years ago, we were bleeding money. We actually have negative gross margins and gradually, we were able to improve that. And we're now at a gross margin that is no longer -- it's very much apart from, I would say, the corporate gross margin. So we've gotten that, I think, to a level which I think is business-wise the right level for us to aspire to.

我的意思是，就服務面而言，我們在過去幾年已向各位更新我們在 EUV 服務毛利率方面所取得的進展。所以在四、五年前，我們還在虧錢。實際上我們的毛利率是負的，而我們也逐步把它改善了。而我們現在的毛利率已不再——我會說——與公司整體毛利率相差甚遠。所以我認為我們已把它提升到一個水準，從業務角度來看，這是我們應該追求的正確水準。

On the upgrade business, it very much depends on what it is. So the profile is so different that it would not be appropriate for me to give you a number there.

至於升級業務，這非常取決於具體是什麼項目。因此其輪廓差異很大，我不適合在這裡給你一個數字。

That makes sense. I mean maybe if we take a step back and look again at the capacity as a multiyear proposition here because clearly, we are going into a massive up cycle with AI. And now we've got Agentic AI and driving to a different whole discussion on what the ROI could be. in and around AI. So our sense here is that EUV is becoming a bottleneck as other tools are in the system.

這很合理。我的意思是，也許我們退一步，重新把產能視為一個跨多年的命題來看，因為很明顯，我們正隨著 AI 進入一個巨大的上行週期。而現在又有 Agentic AI，推動對 AI 相關投資報酬率（ROI）可能性的全新討論。所以我們的感覺是，當系統中的其他工具也面臨限制時，EUV 正在成為瓶頸。

And if we look at your own clean room build-out, it did look as though you took maybe -- and correct me if I'm wrong, it took maybe two or three years to get this set up, which was sensible given the pity of demand at the time. But could we see this accelerating? Could we see a concrete pour shell build one year and then the next year fit out happening consecutively, whereby you could have two or three clean room projects at the same time, which I guess is me asking how much land bank can we secure in the immediate vicinity?

如果我們看你們自己的無塵室擴建，似乎你們可能——如果我說錯請糾正——花了大概兩到三年把它建置起來，考量到當時需求的低迷，這樣做是合理的。但我們是否會看到這個速度加快？我們是否可能看到第一年完成混凝土澆置與外殼建造，下一年接續進行內裝與設備配置，連續推進，從而同時進行兩到三個無塵室專案？我想我是在問：在鄰近地區我們能立即確保多少土地儲備？

Well, I think the first thing I'd like to say is that we do not want EUV to be the bottleneck. So I think I'd like to say that very, very strongly. And as we discussed a bit before, we have many, many different ways to drive capacity up being, of course, the number of tool we manufacture, which also depend on our cycle time, the speed at which we manufacture them, productivity, et cetera, et cetera. And of course, adding more footprint is another one.

嗯，我想我首先要說的是，我們不希望 EUV 成為瓶頸。所以我想非常、非常強烈地表達這一點。而如同我們先前稍早討論過的，我們有很多很多不同的方法來提升產能，當然包括我們製造的設備數量，而這也取決於我們的週期時間、我們製造的速度、生產力等等。當然，增加更多廠房面積也是其中之一。

And I will say that we will use whatever is needed in the future to meet our customer demand. And we are reviewing this very carefully on a monthly basis with some, as you know, long-term visibility because of the lead time of our tools. And today, I think we are not in such a situation. And we have the ability again to use any of the tool we just discussed to make sure we continue. And that's something we'll continue to do.

我會說，未來為了滿足客戶需求，我們會採取任何必要的手段。而我們也在每月非常仔細地檢視這件事，並且如你所知，由於我們設備的交期，我們對長期也有一定的能見度。而就今天而言，我認為我們並不處於那樣的情況。而我們也有能力再次運用我們剛才討論的任何工具，確保我們能持續前進。這也是我們會持續去做的事情。

So I would just say, again, very strongly, we do not want to be the bottleneck for our customer. And so far, we have been using all the tools we have at hand to make sure we don't get there, and we'll continue to do that.

所以我再一次非常強烈地說，我們不希望成為客戶的瓶頸。到目前為止，我們一直運用手邊所有工具來確保不會走到那一步，而我們也會繼續這麼做。

And the key thing that we've done, Lee, on that front is, as Christophe said, to get the long lead time items in place. That's what we've done. That gives us many degrees of freedom, including you talked about the land bank, including making sure that we have sufficient room to expand. We have worked on that extremely hard in this region to get that accomplished, and we were recently able to get that done. So we have a lot of degrees of freedom on a go-forward basis with long lead time items in place.

Lee，在這方面我們所做的關鍵事情是，如 Christophe 所說，把交期很長的項目先到位。這就是我們做的事。這讓我們有很大的操作彈性，包括你提到的土地儲備，也包括確保我們有足夠空間可以擴張。我們在這個地區為了達成這件事付出了極大的努力，而我們最近也終於完成了。因此，在長交期項目到位的情況下，往後我們有很多可運用的彈性。

And that gives us the kind of flexibility that Christophe is talking about to give customers what we think they need.

而這也給了我們 Christophe 所談到的那種彈性，去提供客戶我們認為他們所需要的東西。

Yes. And maybe to illustrate that, if you compare a bit what we did in '25, which is what we could do in basically '27 with the at least 80 system, we more than double basically the total EUV capacity we can ship to our customer. This is down basically in about two years. And we do that, I would say, without blinking too much. So we're still, I would say, on top of our game there.

是的。也許為了說明這點，如果你比較一下我們在 '25 年所做的，以及基本上在 '27 年、至少 80 台系統的情況下我們能做到的，我們基本上把能交付給客戶的 EUV 總產能提高到兩倍以上。這基本上是在大約兩年內完成的。而我會說，我們做到這點幾乎不需要太多猶豫。所以我認為我們在這方面仍然——可以說——保持在最佳狀態。

And I think, again, the combination of all the remarks we gave you is really putting us in a good position to continue to grow and also to continue to do that because this has been sometimes your concern when the market was not so good. without spending too much money. I think that's also important. So I know the question of bottleneck comes back very often. I think we don't feel at all that we are the bottleneck today.

而我認為，再次強調，我們給你的所有評論綜合起來，確實讓我們處於一個很好的位置，能夠持續成長，也能持續做到這點——因為有時在市場不那麼好的時候，這一直是你們的擔憂——而且不需要花太多錢。我認為這也很重要。所以我知道「瓶頸」這個問題常常被提起。我想我們完全不覺得今天我們是瓶頸。

We're very closely working with our customer. And again, we have many, many, many tools in our hands to make sure we keep it this way.

我們正與客戶非常密切地合作。而且再次強調，我們手上有非常非常多的工具，確保我們能維持這種狀態。

Okay. I'm afraid that is all the time we have for today. So on behalf of ASML, I would like to thank you all for joining us today. Operator, if you could formally conclude the call, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

好的。恐怕今天我們的時間就到這裡了。因此，我謹代表 ASML 感謝各位今天的參與。接線員，如果你能正式結束這通電話，我將不勝感激。謝謝。

Thank you. This concludes the ASML 2026 first quarter financial results conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。ASML 2026 年第一季財務結果電話會議到此結束。感謝各位參與。您現在可以掛線。