台積電 ADR (TSM) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

(spoken in foreign language) Good afternoon, everyone and welcome to TSMC's fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference and conference call. My name is Jeff Su, TSMC's Director of Investor Relations and your host for today.

（外語）各位下午好，歡迎參加台積電2025年第四季業績發表會暨電話會議。我是台積電投資者關係總監蘇傑夫，也是今天的主持人。

Today's event is being webcast live through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com where you can also download the earnings release materials. If you are joining us through the conference call (technical difficulty) afterwards Mr. Huang and TSMC's chairman and CEO; Dr. C.C. Wei will jointly provide the company's key messages.

今天的發表會將透過台積電官網 www.tsmc.com 進行網路直播，您也可以在該網站下載財報發布資料。如果您是透過電話會議加入我們（技術困難），之後黃先生和台積電董事長兼執行長魏志成博士將共同發表公司的重要演講。

Then we will open both the floor and the line for the question and answer session. As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which would cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. Please refer to the Safe harbour notice that appears in our press release.

然後我們將開放問答環節的發言和排隊通道。像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在重大風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中包含的結果有重大差異。請參閱我們新聞稿中的「安全港」聲明。

And now I would like to turn the microphone over to TSMC's CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, for the summary of operations and the current quarter guidance.

現在，我想把麥克風交給台積電財務長黃文德先生，請他總結一下營運狀況和本季業績指引。

Thank you, Jeff. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us today. My presentation will start with financial highlights for the fourth quarter of 2025 and a recap of full year 2025. After that, I will provide the guidance for the first quarter of 2026.

謝謝你，傑夫。各位下午好。感謝您今天蒞臨。我的演講將首先介紹 2025 年第四季的財務亮點，並回顧 2025 年全年情況。之後，我將提供 2026 年第一季的指導意見。

Fourth quarter revenue increased 5.7% sequentially in NT, supported by strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies. In US dollar terms, revenue increased 1.9% sequentially to USD33.7 billion, slightly ahead of our fourth quarter guidance.

第四季度，NT地區的營收季增5.7%，這得益於市場對我們領先的製程技術的強勁需求。以美元計，營收季增1.9%至337億美元，略高於我們第四季的預期。

Growth margin increased by 2.8 percentage points sequentially to 62.3%, primarily due to cost improvement efforts, favourable foreign exchange rate, and high capacity utilization rate. The operating expenses accounted for 8.4% of net revenue, compared to 8.9% in third quarter of 2025 due to operating leverage. Thus, operating margin increased sequentially by 3.4 percentage points to 54%. Overall, our fourth quarter EPS was TWD19.5, and ROE was 38.8%.

成長利潤率較上季成長 2.8 個百分點至 62.3%，主要得益於成本改善措施、有利的匯率以及較高的產能利用率。由於營運槓桿作用，營運費用佔淨收入的 8.4%，而 2025 年第三季這一比例為 8.9%。因此，營業利益率較上季成長 3.4 個百分點，達到 54%。整體而言，我們第四季的每股收益為 19.5 新台幣，淨資產收益率為 38.8%。

Now let's move on to revenue by technology. three-nanometer process technology contributed 28% of wafer revenue in the fourth quarter, while five-nanometer and seven-nanometer accounted for 35% and 14% respectively. Advanced technologies, defined as seven-nanometer and below, accounted for 77% of wafer revenue. On a full-year basis, three-nanometer revenue contribution came in at 24% of 2025 wafer revenue, five-nanometer 36% and seven-nanometer 14%. Advanced technologies accounted for 74% of total wafer revenue, up from 69% in 2024.

現在我們來看看按技術劃分的收入情況。第四季度，3奈米製程技術貢獻了晶圓收入的28%，而5奈米和7奈米製程技術分別佔35%和14%。先進技術（定義為七奈米及以下）佔晶圓收入的 77%。從全年來看，2025 年晶圓收入中，3 奈米晶圓貢獻了 24% 的收入，5 奈米晶圓貢獻了 36% 的收入，7 奈米晶圓貢獻了 14% 的收入。先進技術佔晶圓總收入的 74%，高於 2024 年的 69%。

Moving on to revenue contribution by platform. HPC increased 4% quarter-over-quarter to account for 55% of our fourth quarter revenue. Smartphone increased 11% to account for 32%. IoT increased 3% to account for 5%. Automotive decreased 1% to account for 5%, while DCE decreased 22% to account for 1%.

接下來分析各平台的所得貢獻。高效能運算業務季增 4%，占我們第四季營收的 55%。智慧型手機成長了 11%，佔比達到 32%。物聯網成長了3%，佔比達到5%。汽車產業下降 1%，佔 5%；而 DCE 產業下降 22%，比 1%。

On a full-year basis, HPC increased 48% year-over-year. Smartphone, IoT, and automotive increased by 11%, 15%, and 34% respectively in 2025, while DCE remained flat. Overall, HPC accounted for 58% of our 2025 revenue. Smartphone accounted for 29%, IoT accounted for 5%, automotive accounted for 5%, and DCE accounted for 1%.

全年來看，高效能運算年增了 48%。到 2025 年，智慧型手機、物聯網和汽車分別成長了 11%、15% 和 34%，而 DCE 則保持不變。整體而言，高效能運算占我們 2025 年營收的 58%。智慧型手機佔 29%，物聯網佔 5%，汽車佔 5%，數位消費性電子佔 1%。

Moving on to the balance sheet. We ended the fourth quarter with cash and marketable securities of TWD3.1 trillion or USD98 billion. On the liabilities side, current liabilities increased by TWD182 billion quarter-over-quarter, mainly due to the increase of TWD95 billion in accrued liabilities and others, and the increase of TWD61 billion from the reclassification of bonds payable to current portion.

接下來來看資產負債表。截至第四季末，我們持有現金及有價證券3.1兆新台幣，約980億美元。負債方面，流動負債季增1820億新台幣，主要原因是應計負債及其他事項增加950億新台幣，以及應付債券重分類至流動負債部分增加610億新台幣。

In terms of financial ratios, accounts receivable days increased by 1 day to 26 days. Inventory days remained steady at 74 days. Regarding cash flow and CapEx, during the fourth quarter, we generated about TWD726 billion in cash from operations, spent TWD357 billion in CapEx, and distributed TWD130 billion for first quarter 2025 cash dividend.

從財務比率來看，應收帳款週轉天數增加了 1 天，達到 26 天。庫存週轉天數保持穩定，為 74 天。關於現金流和資本支出，第四季度，我們從經營活動中產生了約7260億新台幣的現金，資本支出支出為3570億新台幣，並派發了1300億新台幣的2025年第一季現金股息。

Overall, our cash balance increased TWD297 billion to TWD2.8 trillion at the end of the quarter. In US dollar terms, our fourth quarter capital expenditures totalled USD11.5 billion.

總體而言，截至本季末，我們的現金餘額增加了2,970億新台幣，達到2.8兆新台幣。以美元計算，我們第四季的資本支出總額為 115 億美元。

Now let's look at the recap of our performance in 2025. Thanks to the strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies, we continued to outperform the foundry industry in 2025. Our revenue increased 35.9% in US dollar terms to USD122 billion or increased 31.6% into TWD3.8 trillion. Gross margin increased 3.8 percentage points to 59.9%, mainly reflecting a higher capacity utilization rate and cost improvement efforts, partially offset by an unfavourable foreign exchange rate and margin dilution from our overseas fabs.

現在讓我們回顧一下我們在 2025 年的表現。由於市場對我們領先的製程技術的強勁需求，我們在 2025 年繼續超越鑄造行業。我們的營收以美元計算成長了 35.9%，達到 1,220 億美元；以新台幣計算成長了 31.6%，達到 3.8 兆新台幣。毛利率提高 3.8 個百分點至 59.9%，主要反映了產能利用率提高和成本改善措施，但部分被不利的匯率和海外工廠的利潤率稀釋所抵消。

With operating leverage, our operating margin increased 5.1 percentage points to 50.8%. Overall, full-year EPS increased 46.4% to TWD66.25, and ROE increased 5.1 percentage points to 35.4%. In 2025, we generated TWD2.3 trillion in operating cash flow, spent TWD1.3 trillion or USD40.9 billion on capital expenditures. As a result, free cash flow amounted to TWD1 trillion, up 15.2% from 2024.

利用營運槓桿，我們的營業利潤率提高了 5.1 個百分點，達到 50.8%。整體而言，全年每股收益成長 46.4% 至 66.25 新台幣，淨資產收益率成長 5.1 個百分點至 35.4%。2025年，我們創造了2.3兆新台幣的營運現金流，並在資本支出上花費了1.3兆新台幣（約409億美元）。因此，自由現金流達到1兆新台幣，比2024年成長15.2%。

Meanwhile, we paid TWD467 billion in cash dividends in 2025, up 28.6% year-over-year, as we continue to increase our cash dividend per share. TSMC shareholders received a total of TWD18 cash dividend per share in 2025, up from TWD14 in 2024, and they will receive at least TWD23 per share in 2026. I have finished my financial summary.

同時，我們預計 2025 年將派發現金股息 4,670 億新台幣，年增 28.6%，我們將繼續提高每股現金股息。台積電股東在 2025 年每股獲得 18 新台幣現金股息，高於 2024 年的 14 新台幣，並且他們將在 2026 年至少獲得每股 23 新台幣的股息。我的財務總結已經完成。

Now let's turn to our current quarter guidance. We expect our business to be supported by continuous strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies. Based on the current business outlook, we expect our first quarter revenue to be between USD34.6 billion and USD35.8 billion, which represents a 4% sequential increase, or a 38% year-over-year increase at the midpoint.

現在讓我們來看看本季的業績預期。我們預計，市場對我們領先的製程技術將持續強勁的需求，從而支撐我們的業務發展。根據目前的業務前景，我們預計第一季營收將在 346 億美元至 358 億美元之間，以中間值計算，季增 4%，年增 38%。

Based on the exchange rate assumption of USD1 to TWD31.6, gross margin is expected to be between 63% and 65%. Operating margin between 54% and 56%. Lastly, our effective tax rate was 16% in 2025. For 2026, we expect our effective tax rate to be between 17% and 18%. This concludes my financial presentation.

假設匯率為 1 美元兌 31.6 新台幣，毛利率預計在 63% 至 65% 之間。營業利益率在 54% 至 56% 之間。最後，我們2025年的實際稅率為16%。我們預計 2026 年的實際稅率將在 17% 到 18% 之間。我的財務報告到此結束。

Now, let me turn to our key messages. I will start by talking about our Q4 2025 and Q1 2026 profitability. Compared to Q3, our Q4 gross margin increased by 280 basis points sequentially to 62.3%, primarily due to cost improvement efforts, a more favourable foreign exchange rate, and a higher overall capacity utilization rate. Compared to our Q4 guidance, our actual gross margin exceeded the high end of the range provided three months ago by 130 basis points, mainly as we delivered better-than-expected cost improvement efforts.

現在，讓我來談談我們的主要訊息。我將首先談談我們 2025 年第四季和 2026 年第一季的獲利情況。與第三季相比，我們的第四季毛利率較上季成長 280 個基點，達到 62.3%，這主要歸功於成本改善措施、更有利的匯率以及更高的整體產能利用率。與我們第四季的預期相比，我們的實際毛利率比三個月前給出的範圍上限高出 130 個基點，這主要是因為我們在成本改善方面取得了超出預期的成果。

In addition, the actual Q4 exchange rate was USD1 to TWD31.01, as compared to our guidance of USD1 to TWD30.6. We have just guided our Q1 gross margin to increase by 170 basis points to 64% at the midpoint, primarily driven by continued cost improvement efforts, including productivity gains and a higher overall capacity utilization rate, partially offset by continued dilution from our overseas fabs.

此外，第四季實際匯率為1美元兌31.01新台幣，高於我們先前預測的1美元兌30.6新台幣。我們剛發布第一季毛利率預期，預計毛利率將調高170個基點至64%（中位數），主要得益於持續的成本改善措施，包括生產力提升和整體產能利用率提高，但部分被海外晶圓廠持續的利潤稀釋所抵銷。

Looking at full year 2026, given the six factors, there are a few puts and takes I would like to share. On the one hand, we expect our overall utilization rate to moderately increase in 2026. The N3 gross margin is expected to cross over to the corporate average sometime in 2026, and we continue to work hard to earn our value.

展望 2026 年全年，考慮到這六個因素，我想分享一些我的投資和投資建議。一方面，我們預計到 2026 年，我們的整體利用率將溫和成長。N3 的毛利率預計將在 2026 年某個時候達到公司平均水平，我們將繼續努力創造我們的價值。

In addition, we are leveraging our manufacturing excellence to drive greater productivity in our fabs to generate more wafer output. We are also increasing cross-node capacity optimization, which includes flexible capacity support among N7, N5, and N3 nodes to support our profitability.

此外，我們正在利用我們卓越的製造能力來提高晶圓廠的生產效率，從而生產出更多的晶圓。我們也在加強跨節點容量優化，包括 N7、N5 和 N3 節點之間的靈活容量支持，以支持我們的獲利能力。

On the other hand, as the scale of our overseas expansion grows, we continue to forecast the margin dilution from the ramp-up of overseas fabs in the next several years to be between 2% to 3% in the early stages and widen to 3% to 4% in the latter stages. Furthermore, the initial ramp-up of our two-nanometer technology will start to dilute our gross margin in the second half of the year, and we expect between 2% to 3% dilution for the full year of 2026. Finally, we have no control over the foreign exchange rate, but that may be another factor in 2026.

另一方面，隨著我們海外擴張規模的擴大，我們繼續預測，未來幾年海外晶圓廠產能提升帶來的利潤率稀釋，初期階段將在 2% 至 3% 之間，後期階段將擴大至 3% 至 4%。此外，我們兩奈米技術的初期產能提升將在今年下半年開始稀釋我們的毛利率，我們預計到 2026 年全年毛利率將稀釋 2% 至 3%。最後，我們無法控制外匯匯率，但這可能是 2026 年的另一個影響因素。

Next, let me talk about our 2026 capital budget and depreciation. At TSMC, a higher level expenditures is always correlated to the high growth opportunities in the following years. With our fabs in 2025, we spent USD40.9 billion as compared to USD29.8 billion in 2024 as we began to raise our level of capital spending in anticipation of the growth that will follow in the future years.

接下來，我想談談我們 2026 年的資本預算和折舊。在台積電，較高的支出水準總是與未來幾年的高成長機會有關。2025 年，我們的晶圓廠投資額為 409 億美元，而 2024 年為 298 億美元，我們開始提高資本支出水平，以應對未來幾年的成長。

In 2026, we expect our capital budget to be between USD52 billion and USD56 billion as we continue to invest to support our customers' growth. About 70% to 80% of the 2026 capital budget will be allocated to advanced (technical difficulty) expense is expected to increase by a high percentage year-over-year in 2026, mainly as we ramp up our two-nanometer technologies. Even as we invest in future growth with this level of CapEx spending in 2026, we remain committed to delivering profitable growth to our shareholders.

2026 年，我們預計資本預算將在 520 億美元至 560 億美元之間，我們將繼續投資以支持客戶的成長。2026 年資本預算的 70% 到 80% 將分配給先進（技術難度）支出，預計 2026 年該支出將逐年大幅成長，主要是因為我們正在加速推進兩奈米技術。即使我們在 2026 年投入如此規模的資本支出以投資未來成長，我們仍然致力於為股東帶來獲利成長。

Finally, let me talk about TSMC's long-term profitability outlook. As a foundry, our biggest responsibility is to support our customers' growth, and we always view them as partners. Having said that, we are in a very capital-intensive business. In the last five years our capex totalled USD167 billion, while our R&D investments totalled USD30 billion. Therefore, it is important for TSMC to earn a sustainable and healthy return as we continue to invest in leading-edge specialty and advanced packaging technologies to support our customers' growth.

最後，我想談談台積電的長期獲利前景。作為一家代工廠，我們最大的責任是支持客戶的發展，我們始終將他們視為合作夥伴。話雖如此，我們身處在資本密集產業。過去五年，我們的資本支出總額為 1,670 億美元，而研發投資總額為 300 億美元。因此，對於台積電而言，獲得可持續的健康回報至關重要，因為我們將繼續投資於領先的特殊和先進封裝技術，以支持客戶的成長。

Today, we face increasing manufacturing cost challenges due to the rising cost of leading nodes. For example, the cost of tools are becoming more expensive in the month capacity before N3. The CapEx per cost for [A14] will be even higher. We also face additional cost challenges from expansion of our global manufacturing footprint, new investments in specialty technologies, and inflationary costs.

如今，由於領先節點成本的不斷上漲，我們面臨日益嚴峻的製造成本挑戰。例如，在 N3 之前的一個月裡，工具的成本越來越高。[A14] 的單位成本資本支出將會更高。我們還面臨來自全球製造規模擴張、對專業技術的新投資以及通貨膨脹成本的額外成本挑戰。

These all lead to a higher level of CapEx spending. As a result, in the last three years our CapEx dollars amounted to a total of USD101 billion but is expected to be significantly higher in the next three years. Having said that, we continue to work closely with our customers to plan our capacity while sticking to our disciplines to ensure a healthy overall capacity utilization rate through the cycle.

這些都會導致資本支出水準的提高。因此，過去三年我們的資本支出總額達到 1,010 億美元，但預計未來三年將大幅增加。儘管如此，我們仍將繼續與客戶緊密合作，規劃產能，同時堅持我們的紀律，以確保在整個週期中保持健康的產能利用率。

Our pricing will remain strategic, not opportunistic to earn our value. We will work diligently with our suppliers to drive greater cost improvements. We will also leverage our manufacturing excellence to generate more wafer output and drive greater across-node capacity optimization in our fab operations to support our profitability through the cycle.

我們的定價策略將保持策略性，而非投機取巧，以此創造我們的價值。我們將與供應商密切合作，努力降低成本。我們還將利用我們卓越的製造能力，提高晶圓產量，並在晶圓廠營運中實現更大的跨節點產能優化，以支持我們在整個週期內的獲利能力。

By earning a sustainable and healthy return, even as we shoulder a greater burden of CapEx investment for our customers, we can continue to invest in technology and capacity to support their growth while delivering long-term profitable growth to our shareholders. We also remain committed to a sustainable and steadily increasing cash dividends per share on both an annual and quarterly basis.

即使我們為客戶承擔了更大的資本支出投資負擔，透過獲得可持續的健康回報，我們也能繼續投資於技術和產能，以支持他們的成長，同時為我們的股東帶來長期獲利成長。我們也將繼續致力於實現可持續且穩定成長的每股現金股息，無論是在年度還是季度層面。

Let me turn the microphone over to C.C.

讓我把麥克風交給C.C.

Thank you, Wendell. Good afternoon, everybody. First, let me start with, our 2026 outlook. In 2025, we observed robust AI related demand throughout the whole year, while non-AI and market segment but out and saw a mild recovery, concluding 2025.

謝謝你，溫德爾。大家下午好。首先，讓我從我們對 2026 年的展望開始。2025 年，我們觀察到全年人工智慧相關需求強勁，而非人工智慧市場區隔則有所下滑，並在 2025 年底出現溫和復甦。

The foundry to industry, which we define as all logic wafer manufacturing, packaging, testing. Massa making And others increase to 16% year over year. Supported by our strong technology differentiation and broader customer base, TSMC's revenue increased 35.9% year over year in US dollar term, outperforming the country to that industry grows.

晶圓代工廠到工業界，我們將其定義為所有邏輯晶圓製造、封裝、測試。Massa 製造和其他產品年增 16%。憑藉強大的技術差異化和更廣泛的客戶基礎，台積電的收入以美元計同比增長 35.9%，超過了該國同行業的平均增長水平。

Entering 2026, we understand there are uncertainties and risk from the potential impact of tariff policies and rising component parts, prices, especially in consumer related and price sensitive your market segment. As such, will be prudent in our business planning while focusing on the fundamentals of our business to further strengthen our competition position.

進入 2026 年，我們了解到關稅政策和零件價格上漲的潛在影響存在不確定性和風險，尤其是在消費者相關和價格敏感的市場區隔領域。因此，我們將謹慎地進行業務規劃，同時專注於業務的基本面，以進一步加強我們的競爭地位。

We forecast the fry 20 industry to grow 14% year over year in 2026. Supported by robust AI related demand. Underpinned by strong demand for our leading-edge specialty in advanced packaging technologies, we are confident we can continue to outperform the industry grows.

我們預測，到 2026 年，油炸食品產業將年增 14%。強勁的人工智慧相關需求支撐著這一趨勢。憑藉市場對我們領先的先進包裝技術專長的強勁需求，我們有信心在行業增長的同時繼續超越行業平均水平。

We expect 2026 to be another strong growth year for TSMC and forecast our four-year revenue to increase by close to 30%. You will start on terms. Next, let me talk about the AI demand and TSMC's long-term growth outlook.

我們預計 2026 年將是台積電的另一個強勁成長年，並預測我們四年的營收將成長近 30%。你們將從條款開始。接下來，我想談談人工智慧的需求以及台積電的長期成長前景。

Recent development in the AI market continue to be very positive. Revenue from AI accelerator accounted for high 10s, of our total revenue in 2025. Looking ahead, we observe increasing AI model, across consumer, enterprise and sovereign AI segment.

人工智慧市場近期的發展動能依然非常正面。2025 年，人工智慧加速器的收入將占我們總收入的十分之幾。展望未來，我們觀察到人工智慧模式在消費者、企業和主權人工智慧領域都在不斷發展。

This is driving need for more and more computation, which supports, The robust demand for leading edge silicon. Our customers continue to provide us with their positive outlook. In addition, our customers are customer.

這推動了對運算能力日益增長的需求，從而支撐了對尖端矽技術的強勁需求。我們的客戶持續給予我們正面評價。此外，我們的客戶就是客戶。

Who are mending the cloud service providers are also providing strong signals and reaching out directly to request the capacity to support their business. There's our vision in the multi-year AI mega trend remains strong, and we believe the demand for semiconductor will continue to be very fundamental.

那些正在修復雲端服務供應商的客戶也發出了強烈的信號，並直接聯繫他們，請求提供能力來支援他們的業務。我們認為，人工智慧這一多年發展趨勢依然強勁，並且我們相信對半導體的需求將繼續保持非常根本性。

As a country, our first responsibility is to fully support our customer with the most advanced technology and necessary capacity to unleash the GI innovations. To raise the structural increase in the long-term market demand profile, TSMC works closely with our customer and our customers are customer to plan our capacity.

作為一個國家，我們的首要責任是全力支持我們的客戶，提供最先進的技術和必要的能力，以釋放GI創新潛力。為了提高長期市場需求結構性成長，台積電與客戶緊密合作，共同規劃產能。

This process is continuous and ongoing. In addition, as process technology complexity increases, The engagement time with customer is now at least two to three years in advance. Internally, as we have said before, TSMC employs a disciplined capacity planning system to assess the market demand from both a top-down and bottom-up approaches.

這個過程是持續不斷的。此外，隨著工藝技術複雜性的增加，與客戶的溝通時間現在至少提前了兩到三年。正如我們之前所說，台積電內部採用嚴格的產能規劃系統，從自上而下和自下而上兩種方式評估市場需求。

We focus on the overall addressable mega trend to determine the appropriate capacity to build. Based on our assessment, we are preparing to increase our capacity and stepping out our KPX investment to support our customers of future growth.

我們著眼於整體可解決的大趨勢，以確定合適的建設能力。根據我們的評估，我們正準備擴大產能，並逐步增加對 KPX 的投資，以支持客戶未來的成長。

We are also putting forward the existing FA schedule to the extent possible, both in Taiwan and in Arizona. We are also leveraging our manufacturing excellence to drive greater productivity in our farms to generate more output. Convert N5 capacity to support the N3, wherever necessary and focus on capacity optimization across node to maximize the support to our customers.

我們也盡可能在台灣和亞利桑那州推行現有的FA賽程。我們也運用自身的卓越製造能力來提高農場的生產力，進而創造更多產量。在必要時將 N5 容量轉換為 N3 容量，並專注於跨節點的容量最佳化，以最大限度地支援我們的客戶。

Five-year period from 2024 to 2029 underpinned by our technology [deficiation] and broader customer base, we now expect our overall long-term revenue courses to approach 25% kicker in US dollar terms for the five-year period starting from 2024.

在技​​術優勢和更廣泛的客戶群的支持下，我們預計從 2024 年開始的五年內（2024 年至 2029 年），我們的整體長期收入將以美元計價增長近 25%。

While we expect AI accelerators to be the largest contributor in terms of our incremental revenue growth, our overall revenue courses will be fuelled by all four of our course platform, which are smartphone, SPC, IOT, and automotive in the next several years.

雖然我們預計人工智慧加速器將成為我們增量收入成長的最大貢獻者，但在未來幾年，我們的整體收入成長將由我們的四個課程平台（智慧型手機、SPC、物聯網和汽車）共同推動。

As the world's most reliable and effective capacity provider, we will continue to work closely with our customers to invest in leading edge, specialty and advanced packaging technologies to support their growth.

作為全球最可靠、最高效的產能供應商，我們將繼續與客戶緊密合作，投資於領先的、專業的和先進的包裝技術，以支持他們的發展。

We will also remain disciplined in our capacity planning approach to ensure we deliver profitable growth for our shareholders. Now, let me talk about the TSMC's global manufacturing footprint update or our overseas.

我們將繼續嚴格執行產能規劃方法，以確保為股東帶來獲利成長。現在，讓我來談談台積電的全球製造佈局更新，或者說我們的海外業務。

Decisions are based on our customers need as they value some geographic flexibility and a necessary level of government support this is also to maximize the value for our shareholders with a strong collaboration and support from our leading US customers and the US federal, state, and city government, we are speeding up our capacity expansion in Arizona and executing well to our plan.

我們的決策以客戶需求為依據，因為他們重視一定的地域彈性和必要的政府支援。同時，為了最大限度地提高股東價值，在與我們美國主要客戶以及美國聯邦、州和市政府的強力合作與支持下，我們正在加快在亞利桑那州的產能擴張，並按計劃順利執行。

Our first wave has already successfully entered high volume production in 4Q 24. Construction of our second flab is already complete and to moving and installation is planned in 2026. Due to the strong demand from our customers, we are also putting forward the production schedule and now expect to enter high volume manufacturing in the second half of 2027.

我們第一批產品已於 2024 年第四季成功進入大規模生產階段。我們的第二塊樓板的建設已經完成，計劃於 2026 年進行搬遷和安裝。由於客戶需求強勁，我們也加快了生產計劃，預計 2027 年下半年進入大規模生產階段。

Construction of our certified has already started, and we are in the process of applying for permits to begin the construction of our fourth fair and force advanced packaging fact.

我們已開始建造我們的認證工廠，目前正在申請許可證，以便開始建造我們的第四個公平且先進的包裝工廠。

Furthermore, we have just completed the purchase of a second large piece of land nearby to support our current expansion plan and provide more flexibility in response to the very strong multi-year AI related demand.

此外，我們剛剛完成了附近第二塊大型土地的收購，以支持我們目前的擴張計劃，並為應對未來幾年人工智慧相關領域的強勁需求提供更大的靈活性。

Our plan will enable TSMC to scale up an independent giga cluster in Arizona to support the needs of our leading-edge customers in smartphone, AI, and the HPC applications.

我們的計劃將使台積電能夠在亞利桑那州建立一個獨立的千兆集群，以支援我們在智慧型手機、人工智慧和高效能運算應用領域的前沿客戶的需求。

Next, in Japan, thanks to the strong support from the Japan Central Prefecture and the local government, our first specialty.

接下來，在日本，由於日本中央縣和地方政府的大力支持，我們的第一個專業領域。

In Kumamoto has already started volume production in late 2024 with very good yield. The construction of our two lab has started, and the technologies and ramp schedule will be based on our customers' need and market conditions.

熊本已於 2024 年底開始大量生產，產量非常高。我們的兩個實驗室已經開始建設，技術和產能爬坡計畫將根據客戶的需求和市場情況而定。

In Europe, we have received strong commitment from the European Commission and the German Federal, state, and city governments. Construction of our specialty lab in Dresden, Germany is focusing on our plan.

在歐洲，我們得到了歐盟委員會以及德國聯邦、州和市政府的大力支持。我們在德國德勒斯登的專業實驗室建設正按計劃進行。

The rem schedule will be based on our customers' needs in the market conditions in Taiwan, with support from Taiwan government. We are preparing multiple phases of two-nano, two-nanometers of, perhaps in both Hsinchu and Kaohsiung Science Parks Science Park.

rem 課程安排將根據台灣市場條件下客戶的需求，並在台灣政府的支持下進行。我們正在準備多階段的2奈米技術，可能在新竹科學園區和高雄科學園區同時進行。

We will continue to invest in leading edge and rice packaging facilities in Taiwan over the next few years. By expanding our global footprint while continuing invested in Taiwan, TSMC can continue to be better, to be the trusted technology and capacity provider of the global log industry for years to come.

未來幾年，我們將繼續在台灣投資建造先進的稻米包裝設施。透過擴大全球商業版圖，同時繼續投資台灣，台積電可以不斷進步，在未來幾年成為全球原木產業值得信賴的技術和產能供應商。

Last, let me, talk about N2 and A16 status. two-nanometer and A16 technologies lead the industry in addressing the insensible demand for energy efficient computing, and almost all the innovators are working with TSMC and to successfully enter high volume manufacturing in 4Q 2025.

最後，我想談談N2和A16的現況。 2奈米和A16技術在滿足節能運算的巨大需求方面處於行業領先地位，幾乎所有創新者都在與台積電合作，力爭在2025年第四季成功進入量產階段。

At both our Hsinchu and Kaohsiung sides with good yield. We are seeing strong demand from smartphone and HPC AI applications and expect a faster ramp in 2026.

我們在新竹和高雄兩邊的產量都很好。我們看到來自智慧型手機和高效能運算人工智慧應用的強勁需求，並預計 2026 年成長速度將更快。

With our strategy of continuous enhancement, we also introduced the N2P as an extension of, N2 family, N2P features a further performance and power benefit on top of N2, and volume production is scheduled for the second half of this year.

秉承持續改善的策略，我們也推出了 N2P 作為 N2 系列的延伸產品，N2P 在 N2 的基礎上進一步提升了性能和功耗，併計劃於今年下半年開始量產。

We also introduced a 16 featuring our best in class superpower rail or SPR. A16 is best suitable for specific HPC products with complex signal route and the dense power delivery network. Volume production is on track for second half 2026.

我們還推出了一款 16 型產品，配備了我們一流的超強動力軌道或 SPR。A16 最適合具有複雜訊號路徑和密集供電網路的特定高效能運算產品。批量生產預計將於2026年下半年開始。

We believe N2 N2PA 16, and its derivatives will prepare our N2 family to be another large and long-lasting node for TSMC while further extending our technology leadership position way into the future.

我們相信 N2 N2PA 16 及其衍生產品將使我們的 N2 系列成為台積電另一個龐大且持久的節點，同時進一步鞏固我們在未來很長一段時間內的技術領先地位。

This conclude our key message, and thank you for your attention.

我們的主要訊息到此結束，謝謝大家的聆聽。

Thank you, Wendell. Thank you, CC. (Event instructions) Now questions will be taken in the order they were received. If at any time you would like to remove yourself from the questioning queue, please press 2.

謝謝你，溫德爾。謝謝你，CC。（活動須知）現在將以收到問題的順序進行提問。如果您想隨時退出詢問隊列，請按 2。

(Event Instructions) Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

（活動說明）Gokul Hariharan，摩根大通。

Thank you and happy New Year. So, CC, it definitely feels like you've heard what your customers have said to you over the last three four months. Could you give us a little bit more color on what you are hearing from your customers on demand, because this is a very big step up in the capacity commitment.

謝謝，新年快樂。所以，CC，看來你確實聽到了過去三、四個月裡客戶對你提出的要求。您能否更詳細地介紹一下您從客戶那裡了解到的需求情況，因為這代表著產能承諾的重大提升。

There is definitely a lot of concern in the financial market, especially about whether we are in a bit of a bubble, and obviously, you are the one who was putting up all the capital in this industry, so you have definitely considered this very carefully as well.

金融市場確實存在許多擔憂，尤其是關於我們是否處於泡沫之中，顯然，您是這個行業所有資本的投入者，所以您肯定也對此進行了非常仔細的考慮。

So, give us a little bit more detail in terms of what you are hearing from the customers and your views on this cycle given if we think about typical semiconductor cycle, we have already probably.

那麼，請您更詳細地介紹您從客戶那裡聽到的回饋，以及您對當前週期的看法。考慮到典型的半導體週期，我們可能已經經歷過類似的周期了。

Views about the overall, AI related demand and the semiconductor cycle. So again, [hekkku] notes that as Wendell and you said, we are substantially, stepping up our CapEx to support the customers. But he does say, there is concerns about an AI bubble and risk.

關於人工智慧相關整體需求和半導體週期的觀點。所以，[hekkku]再次指出，正如Wendell和你所說，我們正在大幅增加資本支出以支持客戶。但他確實表示，人們擔心人工智慧泡沫和風險。

So part of Gokul's question is how, what is the feedback, any color we can share about what type of discussions and feedback we are getting from both customers and the customer's customers that CC mentioned and how long do we think this, cycle can last.

所以 Gokul 的部分問題是，我們如何、如何獲得回饋，我們能否分享一些關於我們從客戶和客戶的客戶那裡得到的討論和回饋的信息，正如 CC 所提到的，以及我們認為這個週期可以持續多久。

Okay, Gokul, you essentially try to ask her say whether the AI demand is real or not. I'm also very nervous about it. Yeah, you bet, because we have to invest about USD52 billion to USD56 billion for the KPX, right? If we did not do it carefully.

好的，Gokul，你其實是想問她人工智慧的需求是否真實存在。我對此也感到非常緊張。沒錯，因為我們需要為 KPX 投資約 520 億至 560 億美元，對吧？如果我們沒有謹慎行事。

And, that will be a big disaster to TSMC for sure. So, of course, I spent a lot of time in the last three four months talking to my customer and then customers are customer. I want to make sure that my customers' demands are real. So, I talked to those, cloud service providers, all of them.

那對台積電來說肯定是一場巨大的災難。所以，當然，在過去的三個月四個月裡，我花了很多時間與我的客戶交談，而客戶就是客戶。我想確保客戶的需求是真實的。所以，我跟所有雲端服務供應商都談過了。

The answer is that I'm quite satisfied with the answer. Actually, they show me the evidence that the AI really help their business. So they grow their business successfully and heresy, the, in their financial return. So, I also double check their financial status, they are very rich.

答案是：我對這個答案非常滿意。事實上，他們向我展示了人工智慧確實幫助他們業務發展的證據。因此，他們的業務發展壯大，異端邪說也得到了經濟回報。所以，我又仔細核實了他們的財務狀況，他們非常富有。

That's sounds much better than TSMC. So, no doubt, I also asked specifically that what's the application, right? I mean, that's, for one of the, hyper scatter, they told me that help their social media, software and so the customer continue to increase.

聽起來比台積電好多了。所以，毫無疑問，我也特別問了這個問題：這個應用是什麼？我的意思是，對於其中一個高度分散的群體來說，他們告訴我這有助於他們的社群媒體、軟體，因此客戶數量會持續成長。

So I believe that, and with our own experience in the AI application, we also help to, our own fab to improve the productivity as I mentioned at one time, say that 1% or 2%, productivity improvement, that is free to TSMC and that's why also our gross margin is a little bit satisfied, even in this very high-cost period of time.

所以我相信，憑藉我們在人工智慧應用方面的經驗，我們也能幫助我們自己的晶圓廠提高生產力，正如我之前提到的，例如提高 1% 或 2% 的生產力，這對台積電來說是免費的，這也是為什麼即使在當前成本非常高的時期，我們的毛利率也略微令人滿意的原因。

And so, all in all, I believe in my point of view. The AI is real, not only real, it's starting to grow into our daily life. And we believe, that is kind of, we call it AI mega trend. We certainly we believe that. So, you, another question is, can the semiconducting industry to be good for three four five years in a row.

總之，我相信我的觀點。人工智慧是真實存在的，不僅真實存在，而且逐漸融入我們的日常生活。我們認為，這就是我們所說的AI大趨勢。我們當然相信這一點。那麼，另一個問題是，半導體產業能否連續三到五年保持良好發展動能。

I will tell you the truth, I do not know. But I look at the AI, it looks like, it is going to be, like, endless, I mean, that's, for many years to come. No matter what, TSMC stick on the fundamental technology leadership.

說實話，我不知道。但我觀察人工智慧，感覺它似乎會是無窮無盡的，我的意思是，在未來很多年都是如此。無論如何，台積電始終堅持其基礎技術領先地位。

Manufacturing excellence, and we work with customers to get their trust. And I think that fundamental thing why Position TSMC to be very good future growth, let me say that 25% [kekeer].

我們以卓越的製造流程贏得客戶的信任。我認為，將台積電定位為未來非常好的成長點，根本原因在於，我認為成長幅度為 25% [kekeer]。

As we projected, and we used to be conservative that.

正如我們預測的那樣，而且我們過去一直比較保守。

Thanks, CC. My second question is on the, US, expansion. You are pulling in some of the capacity in response to customers. You are already starting, plans for the phase 4. There's a lot of media reports about TSMC. You might have to build more Fabs in the US. How should we think about, US expansion in principle over the next few years?

謝謝，CC。我的第二個問題是關於美國的擴張。您正在調動部分產能以滿足客戶需求。你們已經開始著手第四階段的計畫了。關於台積電的媒體報導很多。你可能需要在美建更多工廠。我們該如何看待未來幾年美國的擴張？

I think previously you had talked about reaching 20%. Or even 30% of two-nanometer capacity in the US eventually, the total capacity could be in the US. Could you give us a little bit more detail about how that is progressing and when could we get there, in terms of the 30% or even 20% capacity?

我想你之前說過要達到 20%。甚至最終美國兩奈米製程產能的 30%，總產能也可能在美國。您能否更詳細地介紹一下進展情況，以及我們何時能夠達到 30% 甚至 20% 的產能目標？

Okay, so Gokul's second question is about our overseas expansion, particularly in the US. He notes that CC said we are pulling in the schedule for the FAB 2, earlier, we're starting the application for the fourth fab. And so, his question is partly around recent reports that we intend to build more fabs in Arizona.

好的，Gokul 的第二個問題是關於我們的海外擴張，特別是在美國的擴張。他指出，CC 表示我們正在推進 FAB 2 的進度安排，此前，我們正在申請第四個晶圓廠。因此，他的問題部分與最近有關我們打算在亞利桑那州建造更多晶圓廠的報告有關。

So, his question is how should we or how is TSMC thinking about the future, expansion in Arizona? And we have said in the past that, around 30% of our two-nanometer and more advanced capacity would be based in Arizona once we complete scaling out to this independent [gigaab] cluster. So what is the time frame or timetable for that? How quickly can we get there?

所以，他的問題是，我們該如何看待或台積電如何看待未來在亞利桑那州的擴張？我們過去曾說過，一旦我們完成向這個獨立的[千兆級]集群的擴展，我們大約 30% 的 2 納米及更先進產能將位於亞利桑那州。那麼，具體時間安排或時間表是什麼？我們最快能到達那裡嗎？

That's a long question. We build a fact in Arizona, and we work hard, so today, everything, even the yield or defect density is almost equal to Taiwan. And due to the strong demand, as I just answered from the AI, stronger, that's a mega trend, all my customers in the AI customer you see in the US.

這是一個很長的問題。我們在亞利桑那州建立了穩固的基礎，並且努力工作，所以今天，所有方面，甚至良率或缺陷密度都幾乎與台灣一樣。而且由於強勁的需求，正如我剛才從人工智慧領域回答的那樣，這種需求越來越強，這是一個巨大的趨勢，我所有的人工智慧客戶都來自美國。

So, they ask a lot of support from the US, [F]. So because of that, we have to speed up our for expansion in Arizona. In Taiwan also, actually, we increased most of the capacity in Taiwan, no doubt about it, because this is, most, adjacent one we can, progress we will, in US we try to speed it up and, progress is very good. We got the help from the government, still we have to meet all the, requirement for the permits or, for those kinds of things.

所以，他們向美國尋求了很多支持，[F]。因此，我們必須加快在亞利桑那州的擴張步伐。事實上，在台灣，我們也增加了大部分產能，這一點毋庸置疑，因為這是最大的鄰近地區，我們可以取得進展，在美國，我們努力加快進度，而且進展非常好。我們得到了政府的幫助，但我們仍然需要滿足所有許可證之類的要求。

And so, both in Taiwan and in Arizona, we speeded up our capacity expansion to meet the AI demand. I can always say one word. The capacity is very tight we work very hard to narrow the GAAP so far. Probably this year, next year, we have to work extremely hard to narrow the GAAP. Okay, we just bought a second land.

因此，無論是在台灣還是亞利桑那州，我們都加快了產能擴張，以滿足人工智慧的需求。我總是能說一個字。產能非常緊張，我們一直在努力縮小 GAAP 的適用範圍。或許今年、明年，我們必須付出極大的努力來縮小 GAAP 的適用範圍。好的，我們剛買了第二塊地。

In Arizona. Let's give you a hint that's what we plan to do because we need it. We are going to expand the many fabs over there and this giga app cluster can help us to improve the productivity, to lower down the cost and to serve our customers in the US better.

在亞利桑那州。我給你透露一下，我們打算這麼做，因為我們需要它。我們將擴大那裡的眾多晶圓廠，這個千兆應用集群可以幫助我們提高生產效率，降低成本，並更好地服務我們在美國的客戶服務。

Okay.

好的。

Okay, thank you, Gokul.

好的，謝謝你，戈庫爾。

Semiconductor growth has seen very strong growth, and I believe all of your customers and customers very desperate to ask more capacity support from TSMC, but I'm just wondering how does TSMC evaluate the potential power electricity supply for data center. So other than that, the chips. And discuss with our customers.

半導體產業發展勢頭強勁，我相信你們所有的客戶都非常渴望得到台積電更多的產能支持，但我只是想知道台積電是如何評估資料中心潛在電力供應的。除此之外，就是薯片了。與我們的客戶進行討論。

I think for the overall infrastructure buildup for data centers, a lot of factors also very important. Just want to understand more how the TSMC evaluate those key factors for the AI infrastructure buildup. That's my first question.

我認為，對於資料中心的整體基礎設施建設而言，還有很多其他因素非常重要。我只是想更深入地了解台積電是如何評估人工智慧基礎設施建設的關鍵因素的。這是我的第一個問題。

Okay, so [Laura's] first question is around, the AI demand. She notes again, as we said, AI mega trend and the growth is very strong, and customers, and ourselves are strong believers, but when we do our planning, how do we.

好的，所以[勞拉]的第一個問題是關於人工智慧的需求。她再次指出，正如我們所說，人工智慧大趨勢和成長勢頭非常強勁，客戶和我們自己都是堅定的信徒，但是當我們進行規劃時，我們該如何做呢？

Balances against the other considerations. Do we look at things, for example, I think [Laura's] question is powering electricity grid availability to basically, assess, is this part of our included as part of our planning process? Do we factor such things in?

權衡其他因素。例如，我認為勞拉提出的問題是電力網路可用性，我們需要評估這是否是我們規劃過程的一部分？我們是否將這些因素納入考量？

Well, [Laura]. Let me tell you first, I worry about the electricity in Taiwan first. I need to have a lot of enough electricity so I can, start to expand the capacity, without, any limitation. But talking about the, build a lot of AI data center all over the world.

出色地，[勞拉]首先我要說的是，我最擔心的是台灣的電力問題。我需要充足的電力，這樣我才能開始擴大產能，不受任何限制。但說到建造人工智慧資料中心，應該在世界各地建造許多這樣的資料中心。

I use one of my customers or customers, I answer that I ask the same question. They told me that they planned this 156 years ago already. So, as I said, those, cloud service providers are smart, very smart. If I knew that, I would anyway --.

我以我的客戶為對象，回答他們也提出同樣的問題。他們告訴我，他們早在156年前就已經計畫好了這件事。所以，正如我所說，這些雲端服務提供者都很聰明，非常聰明。如果我知道這一點，我還是會這麼做。——。

So, they say that they work on the power supply 56 years ago. So, today, their message to me is, Silicon from TSMC is a bottleneck and asked me not to pay attention to all others because they have to solve the silicon bottleneck first. But indeed, we do get the power supply, all over the world, especially in the US.

所以，他們說他們56年前就開始研究電源了。所以，他們今天傳達給我的訊息是，台積電的矽是瓶頸，並要求我不要關注其他所有方面，因為他們必須先解決矽的瓶頸問題。但事實上，我們在世界各地，尤其是在美國，都能獲得電力供應。

Not only that, but we also look at, who support those kind of a power supply, like a turbine, like, what, Nuclear power plant, the plan or those kinds of things. We also look at the supply of the rack. We also look at the supply of the cooling system. Everything, so far, so good. So we have to work hard to narrow the GAAP between the demand and supply from TSMC. Did that answer your question?

不僅如此，我們還要檢視誰支持這類電力供應，例如渦輪機、核電廠、計畫等等。我們也會考察貨架的供應情況。我們也要考察冷卻系統的供應情況。目前為止，一切都很好。因此，我們必須努力縮小台積電供需之間的差距。這樣回答了你的問題嗎？

That's great to know that it's, would not be the constraints for the further AI developments. Yeah, thank you. And my second question is on the leading-edge advanced packaging. And when can you remind us that what would be the revenue contribution last year for the advanced packaging overall. First of all, we see that that's, I recall that in the past that the caps for leading edge of advanced packaging roughly about 10%.

得知這不會成為人工智慧進一步發展的限制因素，真是太好了。是啊，謝謝。我的第二個問題是關於前沿的先進封裝技術。請問您何時可以告知我們去年先進封裝技術的整體營收貢獻是多少？首先，我們看到，我記得過去先進封裝技術的領先優勢約佔 10%。

Yeah. And now it could be up to like a 20%. So, I'm just wondering that for the expansion, can you give us more detail about what kind of the plans you are looking for? Will you focus more on like VDIC SOIC or are you also start to work on more advanced like a panel base, in the longer-term?

是的。現在可能高達 20%。所以，我想問一下，關於擴建方面，您能否詳細說明一下您希望看到的方案是什麼樣的？從長遠來看，您會更專注於 VDIC SOIC 之類的封裝，還是也會開始研究更先進的封裝技術，例如面板基板？

I also, think that before we talk about that, we'll work more closely with, OE's, partner on the leading edge advanced packaging. So, just wondering what kind of the process will be, the key expansion plan in the space. Thank you.

我也認為，在討論這個問題之前，我們會與OE的合作夥伴在尖端先進封裝方面進行更緊密的合作。所以，我只是想知道這個過程會是什麼樣的，這個領域的關鍵擴張計畫是什麼。謝謝。

Okay. So, Laura's second question is more related to advanced packaging. What was the revenue contribution of what we call the back end, which is advanced packaging testing as a whole in 2025. And then she notes the CapEx, actually this year I believe window we guided 10% to 20% of CapEx, which is the same as last year, but anyways, she wants to know what is the focus of this CapEx? Is it on 3DIC? Is it on SOIC packaging solutions? Is it on panel level? Sort of what is the key areas we're focusing on relative to the CapEx?

好的。所以，勞拉的第二個問題與先進包裝技術更相關。到 2025 年，我們所說的後端（即先進封裝測試）的整體收入貢獻是多少？然後她提到了資本支出，實際上，我相信今年我們預計資本支出佔比為 10% 到 20%，與去年相同，但無論如何，她想知道這筆資本支出的重點是什麼？它在3DIC上嗎？它採用的是SOIC封裝解決方案嗎？這是面板等級的問題嗎？相對於資本支出而言，我們重點關注的關鍵領域有哪些？

Okay, Laura, the revenue contribution last year from advanced packaging is close to 10%. It's about 8%. For this year, we expect it to be slightly over 10%. We expect it to grow, in the next five years, higher or faster than the corporate.

好的，勞拉，去年先進封裝技術的收入貢獻接近 10%。大約是8%。今年，我們預計這一比例將略高於 10%。我們預計，未來五年內，其成長速度將高於或超過企業平均。

And the CapEx, yes, you are right, in the past, it's about 10%, lower than 10%. Now we're saying advanced packaging together with mass-making and others, accounted for between 10% to 20%. So you can see that, the investment, amount is higher.

資本支出方面，是的，你說得對，過去大約是 10%，低於 10%。現在我們說，先進的包裝技術加上大規模生產等因素，佔比在 10% 到 20% 之間。所以你可以看出，投資金額更高。

And we are investing in areas in advanced packaging where our customers need. So the areas that you mentioned, basically, we continue to invest.

我們正在投資客戶需要的先進包裝領域。所以，你提到的這些領域，我們基本上都會繼續投資。

Charlie, Chan, Morgan Stanley.

查理，陳，摩根士丹利。

Thanks, Jeff, Happy New Year, CC and Wendell. So first of all, amazing results and guidance. Congratulations to the management team. So, my first question is, about, of AI, what do you see, for those marks, right? We, you talk about the memory cost, etc.

謝謝傑夫，祝CC和溫德爾新年快樂。首先，成果和指導都非常出色。祝賀管理團隊。所以，我的第一個問題是，關於人工智慧，您對這些指標有何看法？我們，你們談論記憶體成本等等。

So, can you give us some, of, your underlying assumption for PC shipments, smartphone shipments, etc. And also, in your HPC there are some, other pieces like networking and a general service. Can you come about the growth, potential for those segments? Thank you.

那麼，您能否為我們介紹一下您對個人電腦出貨量、智慧型手機出貨量等方面的基本假設？另外，您的高效能運算（HPC）業務中還包含一些其他部分，例如網路和通用服務。您能否談談這些細分市場的成長和潛力？謝謝。

Okay, Charlie's first question is very, specific. Well, generally he wants to know about how do we see the non-AI demand, especially in the context where the, certain component costs such as memory costs are rising.

好的，查理的第一個問題非常具體。嗯，他主要想了解我們如何看待非人工智慧需求，尤其是在記憶體成本等某些組件成本不斷上漲的情況下。

So he wants to know what do we see the impact on the PC and smartphone markets in terms of shipments. He's also asking very specifically what about networking? What about general server, each these different segments.

所以他想知道，就出貨量而言，這對個人電腦和智慧型手機市場會產生什麼影響。他也非常具體地詢問了人脈拓展方面的問題？那麼，普通伺服器，以及這些不同的組成部分呢？

Well, Charlie. Those, although we say is called non-AI, but actually they're related to AI that, right? Because of networking processor, you still need to, have, AI data to scale up or scale out. There, those are the networking switches or those kinds of things. It still grow, very strong.

好吧，查理。雖然我們稱它們為非人工智慧，但實際上它們與人工智慧有關，對吧？由於網路處理器的存在，您仍然需要擁有 AI 資料來進行向上或向外擴展。那些是網路交換器之類的東西。它還在生長，而且非常強壯。

As for PC or the smartphone to tell the truth, we expect a higher memory surprise, so we expect the unit growth will be very minimal. But for TSMC we did not feel our customers changed their behaviour.

至於PC或智慧型手機，說實話，我們預計記憶體方面的驚喜會更大，因此我們預計銷售成長將非常有限。但對於台積電來說，我們並沒有感覺到客戶的行為改變了。

And we look at it and then we find out that, we supply most of the high-end smartphones. The high-end smartphone is less sensitive to the memory of price. So, the demand is still shrunk. I use one sentence I'd like to say, we still try very hard to narrow the GAAP. We had to supply a lot of wafers to them also.

我們仔細研究後發現，我們供應了大部分高階智慧型手機。高階智慧型手機對價格記憶的敏感度較低。所以，需求依然萎縮。我想用一句話來表達我的看法，我們仍然非常努力地縮小 GAAP 的適用範圍。我們還得向他們供應大量的晶圓。

Since CC, I think that's very consistent with your, five year CAGR outlook for all the four segments. And my second question is, about the Intel's foundry competition. I think US President seems to be very happy with Intel's recent progress and, even mentioned, two of your key customers, right? Nvidia, Apple may have some partnership with Intel Foundry. Should we, concerned about this, so-called competition and what TSNC can really do to, mitigate or avoid a potential, market share, loss and those are key US customers, not limited, to the two costs that I just mentioned. Thank you.

我認為，鑑於 CC 的預測，這與您對所有四個細分市場的五年複合年增長率的展望非常一致。我的第二個問題是關於英特爾的代工競爭。我認為美國總統似乎對英特爾近期的進展感到非常滿意，甚至提到了你們的兩位重要客戶，對嗎？英偉達和蘋果可能與英特爾代工廠有合作關係。我們是否應該關注所謂的競爭，以及 TSNC 究竟能做些什麼來減輕或避免潛在的市佔率損失？這些損失涉及的是美國的重要客戶，而且不限於我剛才提到的兩項成本。謝謝。

Okay, so Charlie's second question is on the foundry competition and, competition from a US IDM. He knows the US Presidents, is very happy with the progress, a couple, two of our key customers, he also was mentioned, so his question is fundamentally, is there a concern or risk, going forward of market share loss, for TSMC to our foundry competition?

好的，查理的第二個問題是關於代工廠競爭，以及來自美國IDM的競爭。他認識美國總統，對進展非常滿意，我們的兩位主要客戶也提到了他，所以他的問題從根本上來說是，台積電未來是否會面臨市場份額流失的風險，尤其是在面對代工競爭對手時？

Well, Kind of a simple question. I should have said no. Let me explain a little bit, because, in these days, it's not money to help you to compete. Right. I also like, whoever you just mentioned to invest on Intel. I'd like them to invest on TSMC also, but the most fundamental thing is, let me share with you.

嗯，這算是個很簡單的問題。我當時應該拒絕的。讓我稍微解釋一下，因為在現今這個時代，金錢並不能幫助你參與競爭。正確的。我也很喜歡你剛才提到的那位投資英特爾的人。我也希望他們投資台積電，但最根本的是，讓我跟你分享一下。

Today's, technology is so complicated. So once you want to design a very, complete or advanced technology, it takes two or three years to fully utilize that technology that's today's situation.

如今的科技太複雜了。所以，一旦你想設計一項非常完整或先進的技術，你需要兩到三年的時間才能充分利用這項技術，這就是當今的情況。

And so after two to three years of preparation, you can design your product. Once you get your product being approved, it takes another one to two years to ramp it up. So, we have a competitor, no doubt about it, that's formidable competitor. But first, it takes time to, we don't underestimate your progress.

因此，經過兩到三年的準備，你就可以設計你的產品了。產品獲得批准後，還需要一到兩年的時間才能擴大規模。所以，我們有一個競爭對手，這點毋庸置疑，而且是個實力強大的競爭對手。但首先，這需要時間，我們不會低估你的進步。

But are we afraid of it? For 30 some years, we're always in a competition with our competitor. So, now, we have a confidence that to keep our business grow as we estimated.

但我們害怕它嗎？三十多年來，我們始終與競爭對手處於競爭狀態。所以現在，我們有信心維持業務成長，正如我們預期的那樣。

Thank you, CC. All right, let's take the next two questions online in the interest of time. Operator, can we take the first call from the line please?

謝謝你，CC。好的，為了節省時間，接下來的兩個問題我們將在網路上解答。接線員，請問我們可以接聽第一通電話嗎？

Arthur Lai, Macquarie.

亞瑟·賴，麥考瑞。

Hi, first, congrats, very strong performance. Thank you, C.C., Wendo, and Jeff for taking my question. My first question is, about the global capacity plan. Recently, Taiwan local news report that TSMG put the exit, eight inch business and the children know, 12 inch, to convert into the advanced packaging, and the investor is keen to know if this is true and the decision, is based on what kinds of key factor, i.e., CC just mentioned about the power tightness or it's, ROI concern. Thank you.

您好，首先恭喜，表現非常出色。謝謝 C.C.、Wendo 和 Jeff 回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於全球產能規劃的。近日，台灣當地新聞報道稱，台積電計畫退出8吋和12吋業務，轉型發展先進封裝技術。投資人很想知道這是否屬實，以及台積電的決定是基於哪些關鍵因素，例如CC剛才提到的電力緊張問題，還是出於投資報酬率的考量。謝謝。

Okay, so, Arthur's first question is about, basically mature node, our strategy on mature node, he knows a lot of local news has been reporting that TSMC is exiting eight-inch and 12-inch, businesses and converting the capacity to advanced packaging. So he wants to know if this is true and if so, what are the reasons behind it, power constraints, ROI, etc. Etc.

好的，Arthur 的第一個問題基本上是關於成熟節點，關於我們在成熟節點上的戰略，他知道很多本地新聞都在報道台積電正在退出 8 英寸和 12 英寸業務，並將產能轉向先進封裝。所以他想知道這是否屬實，如果屬實，背後的原因是什麼，例如權力限制、投資報酬率等等。

Good question. Indeed, we, reduce our eight inch wafers. The capacity and but let me assure you that we support all our customers. We discuss with our customer and to do this kind of, resources, more flexible and, more, what is the word that we say, optimize, which I shoot, that's optimize the resources to support our customer.

問得好。事實上，我們正​​在縮小八吋晶圓的尺寸。我們有能力，但我可以向您保證，我們會為所有客戶提供支援。我們與客戶討論，為了做到這一點，我們需要更靈活地利用資源，並且，用什麼詞來形容呢，就是優化資源，也就是優化資源以支持我們的客戶。

But let me assure you also to my customer that we continue to support them. We will not let them down. If they have a good business, we continue to support that even in the eight-inch wafers of business.

但我也要向我的客戶保證，我們會繼續為他們提供支援。我們絕不會讓他們失望。如果他們生意做得好，即使在八英寸晶圓大小的商業領域，我們也會繼續支持他們。

Okay, Arthur, do you have a second question?

好的，亞瑟，你還有第二個問題嗎？

Yes, thank you. My second question is, regarding the consumer and demand outlook. So, C.C. also mentioned that the mainly price actually inflation and, you also pushing up the cost of the consumer electronics. So, investors actually, concerned about the further demand, softness in the this year and the next year or particularly next year, so, can management come about, what are your client or your client's client, how to resolve this, memory tightness or we call a memory urgency issue. Thank you.

是的，謝謝。我的第二個問題是關於消費者和需求前景的。所以，C.C. 也提到，主要原因是價格上漲，而你也在推高消費電子產品的成本。所以，投資人實際上擔心今年和明年，特別是明年，需求會進一步疲軟，那麼管理層能否想出辦法，解決客戶或客戶的客戶面臨的資金緊張或我們稱之為資金緊迫的問題。謝謝。

Okay. So, Arthur's second question is on the impact from the memory price increase, and the demand softness. I believe his question really because CC already, shared the impact this year, he wants to know what is the impact for 2027.

好的。所以，亞瑟的第二個問題是關於記憶體價格上漲和需求疲軟的影響。我相信他提出這個問題是真的，因為 CC 已經分享了今年的影響，他想知道 2027 年的影響是什麼。

For TSMC, no impact. As I just mentioned, most of my customers now focus on high-end smartphone or PCs, so those kind of demand has less sensitive to the components of price. So they continue to give us a very healthy forecast this year and next year.

對台積電而言，沒有影響。正如我剛才提到的，我的大多數客戶現在都專注於高階智慧型手機或個人電腦，因此這類需求對價格因素較不敏感。因此，他們對今年和明年的預測仍然非常樂觀。

Okay, thank you, CC. All right, let's operator, let's move on to the next, participant from the line, please.

好的，謝謝CC。好的，操作員，我們來接下一位排隊的參與者。

[X1, Brett Simpson.Everything.]

[X1，Brett Simpson。一切。 ]

Yeah, thanks very much. My question is really on AI. I mean, TSMC has been supply constrained for your AI customers, I think, since 2024, and it sounds like 2026 is another year where we're going to see challenges. Do you think the CapEx you've laid out for this year, TWD52 billion to TWD56 billion, could that mean that we start to see supply and demand more in balance in 2027?

是的，非常感謝。我的問題其實是關於人工智慧的。我的意思是，台積電自 2024 年以來就一直面臨人工智慧客戶供貨不足的問題，而且聽起來 2026 年又將是充滿挑戰的一年。您認為您今年規劃的資本支出（520億至560億新台幣）是否意味著我們將在2027年開始看到供需更加平衡？

Any thoughts there just in terms of how you are thinking about that capacity plan and does it does it alleviate the supply bottlenecks that we see today and as part of this from a supply perspective, we hear TSMC is finding it quite challenging to develop enough engineering talent quick enough both in the US and in Taiwan.

您對產能計畫有什麼想法？它是否能緩解我們目前看到的供應瓶頸？從供應角度來看，我們聽說台積電在美國和台灣都面臨著快速培養足夠工程人才的挑戰。

Can you talk more about this trend and what's the scale of the labour shortage of foundry engineers at the moment? Thank you.

您能否詳細談談這一趨勢，以及目前鑄造工程師的勞動力短缺規模有多大？謝謝。

Okay, so [Brett's] first question is related around AI and our, capacity. So he notes, the supply looks to continue to be tight, in 2026, but with these, significant step up in our CapEx to support the customers TWD52 billion to TWD56 billion, do we expect the supply demand or the GAAP, so to speak, to be more balanced in 2027? And then is engineering resources, fab engineers a constraint or a bottleneck for us in making these expansions, whether in Taiwan or the US.

好的，所以[Brett]的第一個問題與人工智慧和我們的能力有關。他指出，2026 年供應似乎仍將緊張，但隨著我們資本支出大幅增加 520 億至 560 億新台幣以支持客戶，我們是否預計 2027 年的供需或 GAAP（公認會計準則）會更加平衡？那麼，無論是在台灣或美國，工程資源、晶圓廠工程師是否會成為我們進行這些擴張的限製或瓶頸呢？

Okay. Let me answer this question first. If you build a new fab, it takes two and three year, two to three years to build a new fab. So even we start to spend TWD52 billion to TWD56 billion. The contribution to this year, almost none, and 2027, a little bit. So we actually, we are looking for 2028, 2029 supply, and we hope it's a time that the GAAP will be narrow.

好的。讓我先回答這個問題。如果新建一座晶圓廠，需要兩到三年。所以即使我們開始花費 520 億至 560 億新台幣。對今年的貢獻幾乎沒有，對 2027 年的貢獻也只有一點點。所以實際上，我們正​​在關注 2028 年、2029 年的供應情況，我們希望屆時 GAAP 會收窄。

For 2026 and 2027, we are focused on the short-term, more output. Actually, our productivity continue to increase. Our people has an incentive because of, one of the TSMC's incentive is to satisfy customer. It's not because of our financial results are good, but we want to let customer feel.

2026 年和 2027 年，我們將專注於短期目標，提高產量。事實上，我們的生產效率持續提高。我們的員工有動力，因為台積電的動力之一就是滿足顧客需求。這並不是因為我們的財務表現很好，而是因為我們想讓客戶感受到這一點。

So That TSMC is trusted, that whenever they have a good opportunity to grow, we will support it. So, in 2026, 2027, for the short-term, we focus on the productivity improvement, which we have done quite a good, result because of, window just mentioned that we can have a good financial result is because of that. But that's not our, that's our incentive, but that's not our purpose.

所以，台積電值得信賴，每當他們有發展的好機會時，我們都會支持他們。因此，在 2026 年、2027 年的短期內，我們將重點放在提高生產力上，我們在這方面做得相當不錯，正如剛才提到的，我們可以取得良好的財務業績，正是因為如此。但這並不是我們的動機，但這並非我們的目的。

Our purpose is to support our customers. So 2026, 2027 for the short-term, we are looking to improve our productivity. 2028 to 2029, yes, we start to increase our CapEx significantly. And Iraq continues this way if the AI demand mega trend as we expected.

我們的宗旨是為客戶提供支援。因此，短期內（2026年、2027年），我們的目標是提高生產效率。 2028年至2029年，是的，我們將開始大幅增加資本支出。如果人工智慧需求大趨勢如我們預期的那樣發展，那麼伊拉克將繼續保持這種發展態勢。

Okay, [Brett], thank you, C.C. [Brett], do you have a second question?

好的，[Brett]，謝謝你，C.C. [Brett]，你還有第二個問題嗎？

Yeah, I do, and thanks, that was very clear. I guess, my second questions about pricing, and if I look at 2025, this was the second consecutive year where TSMC's wafer ASPs were up around 20%, as Leading Edge becomes a bigger portion of the mix and also you feed through price increases when we factor in, the ramp of more expensive overseas tabs.

是的，我明白了，謝謝，這解釋得很清楚。我想，關於定價的第二個問題是，如果我展望 2025 年，這將是台積電晶圓平均售價連續第二年上漲約 20%，因為前沿技術在產品組合中所佔比例越來越大，而且當我們考慮到更昂貴的海外晶片的產能提升時，價格也會上漲。

Is 20% ASP wafer ASP increases the new normal for TSMC. Typically, you have an annual price negotiation about this time of the year, and so I'm trying to understand how you project ASPs in '26 and is your March quarter guidance factoring in price increases at leading edge. Thank you.

20% 的平均售價漲幅是否意味著台積電晶圓的平均售價漲幅將成為新的常態？通常情況下，每年這個時候你們都會進行一次價格談判，所以我試圖了解你們如何預測 2026 年的平均售價，以及你們 3 月份的季度指導是否考慮到了領先產品的價格上漲。謝謝。

Okay, so [Brett's] question, is on pricing. He notes that, our, which he's looking at the blended wafer price, is increasing at close to 20% according to his estimates. Of course, that's blended both on price and mix, but it's a leading edge, and also we have mentioned, earning our value. So, he wants to know is this the new normal, going forward.

好的，所以[Brett]的問題是關於定價的。他指出，據他估計，他正在關注的混合晶圓價格正在以接近 20% 的速度上漲。當然，這在價格和產品組合上都有所體現，但它具有領先優勢，而且我們也提到過，它能體現我們的價值。所以，他想知道這是否會成為未來的新常態。

Well, this is a tough question. I will get the CFO to answer.

嗯，這真是一個棘手的問題。我會讓財務長來答覆。

Okay, every new node, we have a price, the price will increase. The blended ASP will increase. I think they continued this way in the past and will continue with the way in, going forward. But I think you're asking about, the contribution from pricing to the profitability.

好的，每個新節點都有一個價格，價格會上漲。綜合平均售價將會增加。我認為他們過去一直這樣做，將來也會繼續這樣做。但我認為你問的是定價對獲利能力的貢獻。

Now, as we mentioned before, the profitability, there are six factors affecting the profitability, and price is just one of them. And, of course, we continue trying to earn our value, but in fact, in the last few years, the pricing, benefits to the profitability was just enough to cover the inflation cost from tools, equipment, materials, labour, etc.

正如我們之前提到的，獲利能力受六個因素影響，價格只是其中之一。當然，我們一直在努力創造價值，但事實上，在過去的幾年裡，定價帶來的獲利能力收益僅僅足以彌補工具、設備、材料、勞動力等方面的通貨膨脹成本。

There are other factors contributing to the higher profitability. The first one will be a high utilization rate, as the demand is so high, and as our disciplined approach to capacity planning, the utilization rate supports our high profitability.

還有其他因素促成了更高的獲利能力。第一個優點是高利用率，因為需求非常高，而且由於我們採取了嚴格的產能規劃方法，利用率也支持了我們的高獲利能力。

The other one, will be, manufacturing excellence. As C.C. said, we continue to drive, increasing productivity to generate more wafer output.

另一個目標是卓越製造。正如C.C.所說，我們將繼續努力，提高生產效率，以生產更多的晶圓。

Also, we continue to drive optimization capacity among nodes, which includes converting part of the N5 to N3. It also involves, cross support from different nodes, from the mature nodes to the more advanced nodes. That is a very important advantage of TSMC. So with all these efforts, we are able to maintain a good, healthy, sustainable, return, profitability so that we can continue to invest to support our customers' growth.

此外，我們繼續推動節點間的最佳化容量，包括將部分 N5 轉換為 N3。它還涉及來自不同節點的交叉支持，從成熟節點到更高級的節點。這是台積電的一項非常重要的優點。因此，透過這些努力，我們能夠保持良好的、健康的、可持續的回報和盈利能力，從而能夠繼續投資以支持客戶的成長。

Okay, thank you, Wendell. In the interest of time, we will take two more questions from the floor and one more from the line. So, we will go here, Sunny Lin, UBS, and then.

好的，謝謝你，溫德爾。為了節省時間，我們將再接受現場兩個提問和一個排隊問題。所以，我們接下來要去這裡，Sunny Lin，瑞銀集團，然後。

Thank you. Good afternoon. Very strong results. Congratulations. So number one, if we look at the company very different versus in the past, from many angles, but if we look at the rep, from new node now, you can generate actually higher revenue, from new node, in year four or even year five of mass production, versus in the past, new node like peak revenue in the second or even third year of mass production.

謝謝。午安.結果非常理想。恭喜。首先，如果我們從很多方面來看，這家公司與過去截然不同，但如果我們看業績，現在的新節點可以在量產的第四年甚至第五年產生更高的收入，而過去新節點的收入高峰通常在量產的第二年甚至第三年。

And so could you help us understand, with this new, trend, what the financial implications, and then, what, does that imply, for you to operate or even compete differently versus in the past.

那麼，您能否幫助我們了解，這種新趨勢會帶來哪些財務影響，以及這意味著您需要在營運甚至競爭方面做出哪些與過去不同的改變？

So Sunny's first question, I think maybe is related, well, to our technology differentiation, but she knows that when we ramp a new, in the past when we have a new node, after a few years, sort of, the revenue or, comes down a bit, but she notes that nowadays, we can still enjoy very high revenue from a node even after in its fourth or fifth year. So, her question is what are the financial implications from this, and also from a, I believe, competitive dynamics.

所以，Sunny 的第一個問題，我認為可能與我們的技術差異化有關，但她知道，過去當我們推出一個新節點時，幾年後，收入會略有下降，但她指出，如今，即使節點已經運行了四五年，我們仍然可以獲得非常高的收入。所以，她的問題是，這會帶來哪些財務影響，以及我認為會帶來哪些競爭動態影響。

If I can answer, say we are lucky. Actually, if you look at the semiconductors, product, right now, the trend is, you need to have a low power consumption. Always and then high speed performance. And for TSMC our technology differentiation become more and more clear. We have both benefit. We have a high speed and we have a low power consumption.

如果可以回答，我會說我們很幸運。實際上，如果你觀察半導體產品，你會發現目前的趨勢是，你需要低功耗。始終保持高速性能。對於台積電而言，我們的技術差異化優勢也越來越明顯。我們雙方都有好處。我們速度快，功耗低。

And so our, leading edge customer, the first wave, the second wave, the third wave continue to come, and so that sustain the demand for a long time. That's a difference. Of course, this one, you need to have, technology leadership.

因此，我們的領先客戶，第一波、第二波、第三波客戶不斷湧現，從而維持了長期的需求。這是區別。當然，這一點你必須具備：技術領導。

And which the technology leadership much easier to say, but every year you have to improve. As we said, we have an N2 N2P and then you won't be surprised, and the third one will be into something and continuously. And so that one give us the benefit and to support our customers that continuous innovation.

而科技領先地位說起來容易得多，但每年都必須有所改進。正如我們所說，我們有 N2 N2P，所以你不會感到驚訝，而第三個將會進入某個領域並持續發展。這樣一來，我們就能從中受益，並支持我們的客戶不斷創新。

And so they continue to stay with TSMC and so their product can be very competitive in the market. So that answers the question, say that, once we got the peak revenue and did not decrease, it's continuous because second wave, third wave, customer continue to join.

因此，他們繼續與台積電合作，因此他們的產品在市場上具有很強的競爭力。所以這就回答了這個問題，也就是說，一旦我們獲得了收入高峰並且沒有下降，收入就會持續成長，因為第二波、第三波客戶會繼續加入。

Thank you very much C.C. And then maybe a question on two-nanometer, which you see, meaningful revenue coming through, in 2026. And so, in the past you guide like how much a new node will contribute to sales, for the year, and so any expectations on the revenue contribution from two-nanometer, in 2026.

非常感謝 C.C.。接下來或許可以問一個關於 2 奈米技術的問題，您認為這項技術將在 2026 年帶來可觀的收入。因此，過去你會指導人們如何預測一個新節點在一年內對銷售額的貢獻，以及對 2026 年 2 奈米技術的收入貢獻有何預期。

And then I recall, in terms of process migration a few years ago, there were lots of concerns that increasing cost per transistor. And that obviously is not declining from five-nanometer but then now looking at two-nanometer.

然後我回憶起，幾年前在製程遷移方面，人們有很多擔憂，認為這會導致每個電晶體的成本增加。顯然，這並非指從五奈米下降到兩奈米。

Obvious I think process migration seems to be re-accelerating even for smartphone and PC and then with larger demand coming from headphones compute and so maybe based on your feedback from clients, maybe for smartphone and PC clients why are they accelerating process migration into two nanometres.

很明顯，我認為進程遷移似乎正在重新加速，即使是智慧型手機和 PC 也是如此，而且隨著耳機運算需求的增加，也許根據您從客戶那裡得到的反饋，也許對於智慧型手機和 PC 客戶來說，他們為什麼要將進程遷移加速到兩奈米？

Okay, so Sunny's second question very quickly in two parts. two-nanometers, as we said, is a fast ramp in 2026, very strong customer interest and demand. So what do we have any revenue percentage to guide for in 2026?

好的，Sunny的第二個問題，我們快速分成兩部分來回答。正如我們所說，2奈米技術將在2026年快速普及，客戶興趣和需求非常強勁。那麼，我們對 2026 年的收入百分比有什麼預測呢？

Yeah, Sunny, the two-nanometer will be a bigger node than three nanometre from the start. But it's less meaningful nowadays to talk about the percentage of revenue contribution when the new node starts because the corporate, as a whole, the revenue has become much bigger than before. So, yeah, revenue dollar, it's a bigger note, but percentagewise, less meaningful.

是的，Sunny，從一開始，2奈米的節點就會比3奈米的節點更大。但如今談論新節點啟動時的收入貢獻百分比意義不大，因為從整體來看，公司的收入已經比以前大得多。所以，是的，從收入美元來看，這是一個更大的數字，但從百分比來看，意義不大。

And then the second part of Sunny's question from a technology perspective, as she noted increasing cost per transistor, as we say, CapEx per case going higher. So her question very simply, what's the value, what's driving, smartphone, HPC customers actually to see, we're seeing a widening out of the adoption of N2, so what is the value that it's providing that the customers are willing to adopt N2?

然後，從技術角度來看，Sunny 問題的第二部分，正如她所指出的，每個電晶體的成本不斷增加，正如我們所說，每箱資本支出 (CapEx) 越來越高。所以她的問題很簡單，是什麼價值，是什麼驅動著智慧型手機和高效能運算客戶，我們看到 N2 的採用範圍正在擴大，那麼 N2 究竟提供了什麼價值，才讓客戶願意採用 N2 呢？

I already answered the question, right, because of, now the whole product is looking for low power consumption and high-speed performance.

我已經回答過這個問題了，對吧？因為現在整個產品都在追求低功耗和高速性能。

And our technology can provide that value. I also say that every year we improve. So every year they adopt the same, even the same name of the same node, their product continue to improve. So that provides a value. It's, if you say that the cost per transistor is increased.

我們的技術可以提供這種價值。我還想說，我們每年都在進步。所以他們每年都採用相同的方法，甚至連同一個節點的名稱都一樣，但他們的產品卻不斷改進。所以這具有一定的價值。如果你說每個電晶體的成本增加了，那就是這樣。

I saw the cost per transistor, the performance compared the, that called the CP value is increased. It's much better, so that cost stick with the TSMC. Our, headache right now, if I can call it headache, is a demand and a supply GAAP we need to work hard to narrow the GAAP.

我看到每個電晶體的成本，以及與之相比的性能，發現所謂的 CP 值有所提高。狀況好得多，所以成本方面還是選擇台積電吧。我們現在的難題（如果可以稱之為難題的話）是供需方面的公認會計準則（GAAP），我們需要努力縮小公認會計準則（GAAP）的適用範圍。

Very clear. Thank you.

非常清楚。謝謝。

Thank you, operator, can we take the last call from the line, and you will take one last one from the floor.

謝謝接線員，我們可以接聽線路上的最後一通電話，您再接聽現場的最後一通電話。

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

Hello. Okay, Krish, are you there? I guess not. Then let's just take the last, not call, sorry, the last question, from [Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs]. Thank you.

你好。克里什，你在嗎？我想應該不是。那我們就來回答最後一個問題，抱歉，不是最後一個問題。[布魯斯·盧，高盛]謝謝。

Thank you for thanking you, thank you for letting me to ask the last question. Hopefully, it's not that difficult. So, I think the one of the key, I understand that TSM is trying very hard to increase the capacity. AI revenue is growing like 15% a year, 15% plus a year. But token consumption for the last few quarters is 15% a quarter.

謝謝你的感謝，謝謝你讓我問最後一個問題。希望事情不要那麼難。所以，我認為關鍵之一在於，據我了解，台積電正在努力提高產能。人工智慧收入正以每年 15% 的速度成長，甚至超過 15%。但近幾季的代幣消耗量為每季 15%。

So the GAAP is still there, right? I mean, the, that's why Elon Musk was talking about the chip war. So, can you share with us that in your assumption, when you provide 50% plus AI revenue growth, What kind of token consumption you can support and how many gigawatts of power in terms of the chips you can support in your in your assumption when you provide this kind of five years revenue guide guidance for AI.

所以GAAP準則仍然有效，對吧？我的意思是，這就是為什麼伊隆馬斯克談論晶片大戰的原因。那麼，您能否與我們分享一下，在您假設人工智慧收入成長超過 50% 的情況下，您可以支援什麼樣的代幣消耗量，以及在您為人工智慧提供這種五年收入指導的假設下，您可以支援多少吉瓦的晶片功率？

Okay, so Bruce's first question is on our AI Kager. Actually, to be, correct, we have guided for the AI [keger] to grow mid to high 50s [keger] in the five-year period from 2024 to 2029. So that is the official guidance we have, provided just today.

好的，Bruce 的第一個問題是關於我們的人工智慧 Kager 的。實際上，準確來說，我們已經指導人工智慧（keger）在 2024 年至 2029 年的五年期間增長到 50% 到 50% 之間。以上就是我們今天發布的官方指導意見。

Bruce's question is, in this guidance, what is our assumption, basically assuming about the token growth. Behind this type of CAGR, what is our assumption in terms of translating to how much gigawatts of, data centre can we support and other specific assumptions behind our, guidance.

Bruce 的問題是，在本指南中，我們的假設是什麼，基本上是對代幣成長的假設。在這種複合年增長率背後，我們假設可以支援多少千兆瓦的資料中心，以及我們指導意見背後的其他具體假設是什麼。

Bruce, you got me. I mean, that's, I also try to understand what is the tokens of growth, but my customers, there's a product is improvement continue to increase. So from, it's a well-known from Harper to Blackwell to Ruben, that almost double, triple that their performance. So the one they can support. The tokens of course or the one they can continue to support, the compute power is enormous and so I lost the track to be frank with you. And for gigawatt, I want to see that how much of TSMC can make the money from the gigawatt, rather than say that, how much we can support.

布魯斯，你贏了。我的意思是，我也試著了解成長的標誌是什麼，但我的客戶，產品改進不斷增加。所以，從哈珀到布萊克威爾再到魯本，眾所周知，他們的表現幾乎翻了一番、兩番。所以，就選他們能夠支持的。當然，代幣或他們可以繼續支持的代幣，計算能力非常強大，坦白說，我已經跟不上節奏了。至於千兆瓦，我想看看台積電能從多少千兆瓦發電中獲利，而不是說我們能支持多少。

Today, from my point of view, still the bottleneck is TSMC's waiver supply, not the power consumption. Not yet. So, we also look at carefully, to answer your question, say that the TSMC is a waiver can support how much of the gigawatt still not enough. They still have abundant of power supply in the US.

在我看來，如今的瓶頸仍是台積電的豁免供應，而不是功耗。還沒有。所以，為了回答你的問題，我們也仔細研究了一下，台積電的豁免可以支持多少千兆瓦的產能，但這仍然不夠。美國仍然擁有充足的電力供應。

Okay, my next question is for the CapEx, right? I want to double check with what I just heard that CC was talking about like 2027, the CapEx will be more for the productive improvement when '28, '29 may be meaningfully higher.

好的，我的下一個問題是關於資本支出的，對嗎？我想再次確認我剛才聽到的CC所說的關於2027年資本支出將更多地用於生產改進，而2028年、2029年的資本支出可能會顯著增加。

So I do recall that in 2021, TSMC provided three years for a $100 billion CapEx to support that structural growth. Now the demand is even stronger. On, based on that, can we do three years, [$200 billion] for CapEx for next three years, the math sounds doable.

所以我記得，台積電在 2021 年提供了三年 1000 億美元的資本支出，以支持這一結構性成長。現在需求更加強勁了。基於此，我們能否在未來三年內投入 2,000 億美元用於資本支出？從數學角度來看，這似乎是可行的。

Okay, so, well, first, a slight clarification because, C.C. was talking about this year we have substantially, stepping up our CapEx investment, but CC also mentioned it takes two to three years to build capacity. So in terms of Bruce's question is, do we say 2027 significant step up in CapEx? I think we're saying it takes time for that capacity to come out. So that's the first part.

好的，首先，需要稍作澄清，因為C.C.談到今年我們將大幅增加資本支出投資，但CC也提到產能建設需要兩到三年時間。所以，就 Bruce 的問題而言，我們是否可以說 2027 年資本支出將大幅增加？我認為我們想表達的是，這種能力需要時間才能發揮出來。這是第一部分。

Yeah, I think Bruce, what CC said was the productivity was our main focus in '26 and '27, because when we start to invest, the Fab, the volume production will not come out until '28 and '29. So the dollar amount invested today is for two years or even in the future.

是的，我想布魯斯，CC 所說的是，生產力是我們 2026 年和 2027 年的主要關注點，因為當我們開始投資工廠時，批量生產要到 2028 年和 2029 年才會實現。因此，今天投資的這筆錢將用於兩年後甚至更遠的未來。

And CapEx's dollar amount, as I said, In the last three years, [$101 billion]. In the next three years, significantly higher. I'm not going to share with you the number, but significantly higher.

正如我所說，過去三年資本支出金額為：[1010億美元]未來三年，這一數字將顯著上升。我不會告訴你具體數字，但肯定要高得多。

Yeah. So, I think Wendell has addressed at least, both parts of Bruce's question, okay? So again, thank you. So again, thank you, everyone. This does conclude our Q&A session. Before we conclude today's conference, please be advised that the replay of the conference will be accessible within 30 minutes from now.

是的。所以，我認為溫德爾至少已經回答了布魯斯問題的兩個部分，好嗎？再次感謝。再次感謝大家。我們的問答環節到此結束。在今天的會議結束之前，請注意，會議錄影將在30分鐘後上線。

The transcript will become available 24 hours from now, and both are available or will be available through our TSMC's website at www.tSmcs.com. So again, thank you everyone for taking the time to join us today. We certainly would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year. We hope everyone continues to stay well and you will join us again next quarter.

會議記錄將於24小時後發布，您也可以透過台積電官網www.tSmcs.com查看或取得會議資料。再次感謝各位今天抽出時間參加我們的會議。我們衷心祝福大家新年快樂。我們希望大家身體健康，並期待您下個季度再次加入我們。