台積電 ADR (TSM) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

(spoken in foreign language)

（用外語說）

good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to TSMC's first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. This is Jeff Su, TSMC's Director of Investor Relations and your host for today.

大家下午好，歡迎參加台積電2025年第一季財報電話會議。我是台積電投資者關係總監 Jeff Su，也是今天的主持人。

TSMC is holding our earnings conference call via live audio webcast through the company's website at www.tsmc.com, where you can also download the earnings release materials. If you are joining us through the conference call, your dial-in lines are in listen-only mode.

台積電將透過公司網站 www.tsmc.com 以現場音訊網路直播的方式召開收益電話會議，您也可以在該網站上下載收益發布資料。如果您透過電話會議加入我們，您的撥入線路將處於只聽模式。

The format for today's event will be as follows: First, TSMC's Senior Vice President and CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, will summarize our operations in the first quarter 2025, followed by our guidance for the second quarter 2025. Afterwards, Mr. Huang and TSMC's Chairman and CEO, Dr. C.C. Wei, will jointly provide the company's key messages. Then we will open the line for questions and answers.

今天活動的形式如下：首先，台積電資深副總裁兼財務長黃溫德爾先生將總結我們在 2025 年第一季的營運情況，然後介紹我們對 2025 年第二季的指導。隨後，黃先生與台積電董事長兼執行長C.C.博士進行了會談。魏先生將共同提供公司的關鍵資訊。然後我們將開放問答熱線。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受重大風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。

Please refer to the safe harbor notice that appears in our press release. And now I would like to turn the call over to TSMC's CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, for the summary of operations and the current quarter guidance.

請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。現在，我想將電話轉給台積電財務長黃文德爾先生，請他介紹營運狀況和本季業績指引。

Thank you, Jeff. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. My presentation will start with financial highlights for the first quarter 2025. After that, I will provide the guidance for the second quarter of 2025.

謝謝你，傑夫。大家下午好。感謝您今天加入我們。我的演講將從 2025 年第一季的財務亮點開始。之後，我將提供2025年第二季的指導。

First quarter revenue decreased 3.4% sequentially in NT dollars or 5.1% in US dollars as our business was impacted by smartphone seasonality, partially offset by continued growth in AI-related demand. In spite of the January 21 earthquake and several aftershocks, we work diligently to recover much of the lost production. Thus, our revenue in the first quarter was slightly above the midpoint of our guidance.

第一季營收以新台幣計算環比下降 3.4%，以美元計算環比下降 5.1%，因為我們的業務受到智慧型手機季節性的影響，但人工智慧相關需求的持續成長部分抵消了這一影響。儘管 1 月 21 日發生了地震和幾次餘震，我們仍努力恢復大部分損失的生產。因此，我們第一季的營收略高於預期的中點。

Gross margin decreased 0.2-percentage-point sequentially to 58.8%, primarily due to the earthquake impact as well as the start of overseas dilution, partially offset by the cost improvement efforts.

毛利率環比下降 0.2 個百分點至 58.8%，主要由於地震影響以及海外股權稀釋的開始，但成本改進措施部分抵消了這一影響。

Total operating expenses accounted for 10.2% of net revenue. Operating margin decreased 0.5-percentage-point sequentially to 48.5%. Overall, our first quarter EPS was TWD13.94 and ROE was 32.7%.

總營業費用佔淨收入的10.2%。營業利益率較上月下降0.5個百分點至48.5%。整體而言，我們第一季的每股收益為13.94新台幣，淨資產收益率為32.7%。

Now let's move on to revenue by technology. 3-nanometer process technology contributed 22% of wafer revenue in the first quarter, while 5-nanometer and 7-nanometer accounted for 36% and 15%, respectively. Advanced technologies, defined as 7-nanometer and below, accounted for 73% of wafer revenue.

現在讓我們來談談按技術劃分的收入。 3奈米製程技術在第一季貢獻了22%的晶圓收入，而5奈米和7奈米則分別佔36%和15%。先進技術（定義為 7 奈米及以下）佔晶圓收入的 73%。

Moving on to revenue contribution by platform. HPC increased 7% quarter-over-quarter to account for 59% of our first quarter revenue. Smartphone decreased 22% to account for 28%, and IoT decreased 9% to account for 5%. Automotive increased 14% and accounted for 5% and DCE increased 8% to account for 1%.

接下來討論平台的所得貢獻。HPC 環比成長 7%，占我們第一季營收的 59%。智慧型手機下降22%至28%，物聯網下降9%至5%。汽車股上漲14%，比5%；大商所上漲8%，比1%。

Moving on to the balance sheet. We ended the first quarter with cash and marketable securities of TWD2.7 trillion or USD81 billion. On the liability side, current liabilities increased by TWD135 billion quarter-over-quarter, mainly due to the increase of TWD111 billion in accrued liabilities and others. The increase in accrued liabilities and others was mainly due to the accrual of income tax payables. On financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days increased 1 day to 28 days. Days of inventory increased 3 days to 83 days, primarily due to the ramping of new overseas fabs.

繼續討論資產負債表。第一季結束時，我們的現金和有價證券總額為 2.7 兆新台幣或 810 億美元。負債方面，流動負債較上季增加1,350億元，主要由於應計負債及其他增加1,110億元。預計負債及其他增加主要由於應交所得稅的提列所致。財務比率方面，應收帳款週轉天數增加1天至28天。庫存天數增加 3 天至 83 天，主要由於海外新晶圓廠的投產。

Regarding cash flow and CapEx. During the first quarter, we generated about TWD626 billion in cash from operations, spent TWD331 billion in CapEx and distributed TWD104 billion for second quarter 2024 cash dividend. In addition, we raised TWD16 billion in cash from bond issuances.

關於現金流和資本支出。第一季度，我們從營運中產生了約 6,260 億新台幣的現金，資本支出為 3,310 億新台幣，並派發了 2024 年第二季度現金股息 1,040 億新台幣。此外，我們也透過發行債券籌集了160億新台幣現金。

Overall, our cash balance increased TWD267 billion to TWD2.4 trillion at the end of the quarter. In US dollar terms, our first quarter capital expenditures totaled USD10.06 billion.

總體而言，本季末我們的現金餘額增加了 2,670 億新台幣，達到 2.4 兆新台幣。以美元計算，我們第一季的資本支出總計100.6億美元。

I finished my financial summary. Now let's turn to our current quarter guidance. Based on the current business outlook, we expect our second quarter revenue to be between USD28.4 billion and USD29.2 billion, which represents a 13% sequential increase or a 38% year-over-year increase at the midpoint. Based on the exchange rate assumption of USD1 to TWD32.5, gross margin is expected to be between 57% and 59%, operating margin between 47% and 49%.

我完成了我的財務總結。現在讓我們來看看本季的指導。根據目前的業務前景，我們預計第二季營收將在 284 億美元至 292 億美元之間，季增 13%，年增 38%。以1美元兌32.5新台幣的匯率假設計算，毛利率預計在57%至59%之間，營業利潤率預計在47%至49%之間。

Also, in the second quarter, we will need to accrue the tax on the undistributed retained earnings. As a result, our second quarter tax rate will be around 20%. The tax rate will then fall back to 14% to 15% level in the third and fourth quarter, and the full year tax rate will be between 16% and 17%. This concludes my financial presentation.

此外，在第二季度，我們需要對未分配的保留收益提列稅款。因此，我們第二季的稅率將在20％左右。隨後稅率將在第三、第四季回落至14%至15%的水平，全年稅率將在16%至17%之間。我的財務報告到此結束。

Now, let me turn to our key messages. I will start by talking about our first quarter '25 and second quarter of '25 profitability. Compared to fourth quarter, our first quarter gross margin slightly decreased by 20 basis points sequentially to 58.8%. This was primarily due to 60 basis points impact from the January 21 earthquake and its aftershocks as well as the start of dilution from our Kumamoto fab, partially offset by cost improvement efforts.

現在，讓我談談我們的關鍵訊息。我將首先談談我們 2025 年第一季和第二季的獲利能力。與第四季相比，我們第一季的毛利率較上季小幅下降20個基點至58.8%。這主要是由於 1 月 21 日地震及其餘震造成的 60 個基點的影響，以及我們熊本工廠開始稀釋的影響，但成本改進措施部分抵消了這一影響。

We have just guided our second quarter gross margin to decrease by 80 basis points to 58% at the midpoint, primarily as the margin dilution impact from our Arizona fab starts to kick in. We expect the impact from overseas fab to grow more pronounced throughout the year, as we ramp up further in Kumamoto and Arizona and forecast 2% to 3% margin dilution impact for the full year 2025.

我們剛剛預計第二季毛利率將下降 80 個基點至 58%，主要是因為我們亞利桑那州工廠的利潤率稀釋影響開始顯現。我們預計，隨著我們在熊本和亞利桑那州的進一步擴張，海外晶圓廠的影響將在全年更加明顯，並預測 2025 年全年的利潤率稀釋影響將達到 2% 至 3%。

As we have said before, under today's fragmented globalization environment, overseas fab costs are higher for everyone, including TSMC and all other semiconductor manufacturers. With our additional $100 billion investment plan in Arizona, we forecast the gross margin dilution from the ramp-up of our overseas fabs in the next five years to start from 2% to 3% every year in the early stages and widened to 3% to 4% in the latter stages.

正如我們之前所說，在當今碎片化的全球化環境下，海外晶圓廠的成本對所有人來說都更高，包括台積電和所有其他半導體製造商。隨著我們在亞利桑那州額外投資 1,000 億美元的計劃，我們預計未來五年海外晶圓廠產能擴張將導致毛利率下降，初期每年降幅在 2% 至 3% 之間，後期將擴大至 3% 至 4%。

We will leverage our increasing size in Arizona and work on our operations to improve the cost structure. We will also continue to work closely with our customers and suppliers to manage the impact. Overall, with our fundamental competitive advantages of manufacturing technology leadership and large-scale production base, we expect TSMC to be the most efficient and cost-effective manufacturer in the region that we operate. Thus, even considering our global manufacturing expansion plans, we believe a long-term gross margin of 53% and higher is achievable.

我們將利用我們在亞利桑那州不斷擴大的規模，並致力於改善我們的營運成本結構。我們也將繼續與客戶和供應商密切合作，以控制影響。整體而言，憑藉製造技術領先地位和大規模生產基地的根本競爭優勢，我們預期台積電將成為我們營運地區最高效、最具成本效益的製造商。因此，即使考慮到我們的全球製造擴張計劃，我們相信 53% 及更高的長期毛利率是可以實現的。

Next, let me talk about our 2025 capital budget. At TSMC, a higher level of capital expenditures is always correlated with higher growth opportunities in the following years. We reiterate our 2025 capital budget is expected to be between USD38 billion and USD42 billion as we continue to invest to support customers' growth. About 70% of the capital budget will be allocated for advanced process technologies. About 10% to 20% will be spent for specialty technologies and about 10% to 20% will be spent for advanced packaging, testing, mask-making and others.

接下來我來談談我們2025年的資本預算。在台積電，更高的資本支出總是與未來幾年更高的成長機會有關。我們重申，我們 2025 年的資本預算預計將在 380 億美元至 420 億美元之間，我們將繼續投資以支持客戶的成長。約70%的資本預算將分配給先進製程技術。其中，約10%-20%用於特色技術，約10%-20%用於先進封裝、測試、光罩製造等。

Our 2025 CapEx also includes a small amount related to our recently announced additional $100 billion investment plan to expand our capacity in Arizona. Even as we invest for the future growth with this level of CapEx spending in 2025, we remain committed to delivering profitable growth to our shareholders. We also remain committed to a sustainable and steadily increasing cash dividend per share on both an annual and quarterly basis.

我們的 2025 年資本支出還包括與我們最近宣布的額外 1000 億美元投資計畫相關的一小部分，用於擴大我們在亞利桑那州的產能。即使我們在 2025 年以這種水準的資本支出投資於未來的成長，我們仍然致力於為股東實現獲利成長。我們也將繼續致力於實現年度和季度每股現金股利的可持續和穩定成長。

Now let me turn the microphone over to C.C.

現在讓我把麥克風交給 C.C.

Thank you, Wendell. Good afternoon, everyone. First, let me start with our near term demand outlook.

謝謝你，溫德爾。大家下午好。首先，讓我先談談我們近期的需求展望。

But before that, I would like to mention the earthquake during Lunar New Year. On January 21, Taiwan experienced a 6.4 magnitude earthquake on the Richter scale, followed by several significant aftershocks. Although a certain number of wafers in process were impacted and had to be scrapped, we worked tirelessly and were able to recover much of the lost production, demonstrating the resiliency of our operation in Taiwan.

但在此之前，我想先提一下農曆新年期間發生的地震。1月21日，台灣發生里氏6.4級地震，隨後發生多次強烈餘震。儘管有一定數量的在產晶圓受到影響而不得不報廢，但我們不懈努力，成功挽回了大部分生產損失，展現了我們在台灣業務的韌性。

I want to recognize and deeply thank all of our employees and our suppliers for their dedication and hard efforts over the Lunar New Year holidays. I would also like to extend our great appreciation to our customers for their understanding and support during this time.

我要表彰並深深感謝我們所有的員工和供應商在農曆新年假期期間的奉獻和辛勤努力。我也要向我們的客戶在此期間的理解和支持表示衷心的感謝。

Now, let me talk about the first quarter as a result. We conclude our first quarter with revenue of USD25.5 billion. Our business in the fourth quarter was impacted by smartphone seasonality, partially offset by continued growth in AI related demand.

現在我來談談第一季的結果。我們第一季的營收為 255 億美元。我們第四季的業務受到智慧型手機季節性的影響，但人工智慧相關需求的持續成長部分抵消了這一影響。

Moving into second quarter 2025, we expect our business to be supported by strong growth of our 3-nanometer and 5-nanometer technologies.

進入 2025 年第二季度，我們預計我們的業務將受到 3 奈米和 5 奈米技術強勁成長的支持。

Looking at the full year of 2025, we expect Foundry 2.0 industry growth to be supported by robust AI related demand and a mild recovery in other end market segments. In January, we had a forecast of Foundry 2.0 industry to grow [10%] (corrected by company after the call) year over year in 2025, which is consistent with the IDC's forecast of 11% year over year growth for Foundry 2.0.

展望 2025 年全年，我們預計 Foundry 2.0 產業成長將受到強勁的 AI 相關需求和其他終端市場領域溫和復甦的支持。今年 1 月份，我們預測 2025 年 Foundry 2.0 行業將同比增長 [10%]（電話會議後公司進行了修正），這與 IDC 對 Foundry 2.0 同比增長 11% 的預測一致。

Now, let me talk about the recent tariff. We understand there are uncertainties and risks from the potential impact of tariff policies. However, we have not seen any change in our customers' behavior so far. Therefore, we continue to expect our full year 2025 revenue to increase by close to mid-20s percent in US dollar terms.

現在我來談談最近的關稅問題。我們理解關稅政策的潛在影響存在不確定性和風險。然而，到目前為止我們還沒有看到客戶行為有任何變化。因此，我們繼續預期 2025 年全年營收將以美元計算成長近 25%。

We might get a better picture in the next few months, and we will continue to closely monitor the potential impact to the end market demand and manage our business prudently. Amidst the uncertainties, we will continue to focus on fundamentals of our business, which are technology leadership, manufacturing excellence, and customer trust to further strengthen our competitive position. As such, we are confident TSMC can continue to outperform the Foundry 2.0 industry growth in 2025.

我們可能會在接下來的幾個月裡得到更好的了解，我們將繼續密切關注對終端市場需求的潛在影響，並謹慎管理我們的業務。面對不確定性，我們將繼續專注於業務基本面，即技術領先、製造卓越和客戶信任，以進一步加強我們的競爭地位。因此，我們相信台積電在 2025 年能夠繼續超越 Foundry 2.0 產業成長。

Now, I will talk about our AI demand outlook. We continue to observe robust AI related demand from our customers throughout 2025. We reaffirm our revenue from AI accelerators to double in 2025. The AI accelerators we define as AI GPU, AI ASIC, and HBM controllers for AI training and inference in the data center.

現在，我將談談我們的人工智慧需求展望。我們將繼續觀察到客戶在 2025 年對人工智慧相關的需求將保持強勁。我們重申，到 2025 年，來自 AI 加速器的收入將翻倍。我們將 AI 加速器定義為用於資料中心 AI 訓練和推理的 AI GPU、AI ASIC 和 HBM 控制器。

Based on our customers' strong demand, we are also working hard to double our CoWoS capacity in 2025 to support their needs. Recent developments are also positive to AI's long-term demand outlook. In our assessment, the impact from reasoning models, including DeepSeek, will drive greater efficiency and help lower the barriers to future AI development. This will lead to wider usage and greater adoption of AI models, which all require use of leading-edge silicon. These developments will serve to strengthen our conviction in the long-term growth opportunities from the industry megatrend of 5G, AI and HPC.

基於客戶的強勁需求，我們也正在努力在 2025 年將我們的 CoWoS 產能翻一番，以滿足他們的需求。最近的發展也對人工智慧的長期需求前景有利。我們評估，包括DeepSeek在內的推理模型的影響將提高效率並有助於降低未來人工智慧發展的門檻。這將導致人工智慧模型得到更廣泛的使用和更廣泛的採用，而這些模型都需要使用尖端的矽片。這些發展將增強我們對 5G、AI 和 HPC 等行業大趨勢帶來的長期成長機會的信心。

To address the structural increase in the long-term market demand profile, TSMC employed a disciplined and [thorough] (corrected by company after the call) capacity planning system. This is especially important when we have such high forecasted demand from AI-related business. Externally, we work closely with our customers and our customers’ customers to plan our capacity. Internally, our planning system involves multiple teams across several functions to assess and evaluate the market demand, from both top-down and bottom-up approach, to determine the appropriate capacity to build. Based on our planning framework, we are confident that our revenue growth from AI accelerators will approach a mid-40s-percentage CAGR for the next five years period starting from 2024.

為了因應長期市場需求的結構性成長，台積電採用了嚴謹且（公司在電話會議後予以修正）的產能規劃系統。當我們預測人工智慧相關業務的需求如此之高時，這一點尤其重要。在外部，我們與我們的客戶以及客戶的客戶密切合作，以規劃我們的產能。在內部，我們的規劃系統涉及多個職能部門的多個團隊，以自上而下和自下而上的方式評估和評估市場需求，以確定適當的建設能力。根據我們的規劃框架，我們有信心，從 2024 年開始的未來五年內，來自人工智慧加速器的收入成長將達到 40% 左右的複合年增長率。

Next, let me talk about TSMC's additional USD100 billion investment plan to expand in Arizona. All our overseas decisions are based on our customers' need, as they value some geographic flexibility, and necessary level of government support. This is also to maximize the value for our shareholders.

接下來我來講台積電在美國亞利桑那州額外投資1000億美元擴建的計畫。我們所有的海外決策都是基於客戶的需求，因為他們重視一定的地理彈性和必要的政府支援。這也是為了實現股東價值的最大化。

With a strong collaboration and support from our leading US customers and the US Federal, state, and city government, we recently announced our intention to invest an additional USD100 billion in advanced semiconductor manufacturing in the United States.

在我們領先的美國客戶以及美國聯邦、州和市政府的大力合作和支持下，我們最近宣布打算在美國先進半導體製造業額外投資 1000 億美元。

This expansion includes plans for three additional wafer manufacturing fabs, two advanced packaging fabs, and a major R&D center. Combined with our previously announced plan to build three advanced semiconductor manufacturing fabs in Arizona, this brings our total investment in the US to USD165 billion to support the strong multi-year demand from our customers.

此次擴建計畫包括新增三座晶圓製造廠、兩座先進封裝廠以及一座大型研發中心。加上我們先前宣布的在亞利桑那州建造三座先進半導體製造廠的計劃，這使我們在美國的總投資達到 1,650 億美元，以支持客戶多年的強勁需求。

Our first fab in Arizona has already successfully entered high-volume production in 4Q ‘24, utilizing N4 process technology, with a yield comparable to our fabs in Taiwan. The construction of our second fab, which will utilize the 3-nanometer process technologies, is already complete, and we are working on speeding up the volume production schedule, based on the strong AI-related demand from our customers.

我們位於亞利桑那州的第一家晶圓廠已於 2024 年第四季成功實現大量生產，採用 N4 製程技術，產量與我們位於台灣的晶圓廠相當。我們的第二座晶圓廠將採用 3 奈米製程技術，該廠的建設已經完成，我們正在根據客戶對人工智慧的強烈需求，加快量產計畫。

Our third and fourth fab will utilize N2 and A16 process technologies, and with the expectation of receiving all the necessary permits, is scheduled to begin construction later this year. Our fifth and sixth fab will use even more advanced technologies. The construction and ramp schedule for this fab will be based on our customers' demand.

我們的第三和第四座晶圓廠將採用 N2 和 A16 製程技術，預計將獲得所有必要的許可，並計劃於今年稍後開始建造。我們的第五和第六座晶圓廠將採用更先進的技術。該工廠的建設和投產計劃將根據我們客戶的需求而定。

We also plan to build two new advanced packaging facilities and an R&D center in Arizona to complete the AI supply chain. Our expansion plan will enable TSMC to scale up to a GIGAFAB cluster, to support the needs of our leading-edge customers in smartphone, AI, and HPC applications.

我們也計劃在亞利桑那州建造兩個新的先進封裝設施和一個研發中心，以完善人工智慧供應鏈。我們的擴張計劃將使台積電能夠擴展到 GIGAFAB 集群，以支援我們在智慧型手機、人工智慧和 HPC 應用領域的前沿客戶的需求。

With this additional USD100 billion investment plan to expand our leading-edge capacity in Arizona, I would also like to mention that TSMC is not engaged in any discussions with other companies regarding any joint venture, technology licensing, or technology transfer and sharing.

對於此次額外投資1000億美元擴大我們在亞利桑那州的尖端產能的計劃，我還想提一下，台積電目前沒有與其他公司就任何合資企業、技術授權或技術轉移和共享進行任何討論。

After completion, around 30% of our 2-nanometer and more advanced capacity will be located in Arizona, creating an independent leading semiconductor manufacturing cluster in the US. It will also create greater economies of scale and help foster a more complete semiconductor supply chain ecosystem in the US. Thus, TSMC continues to play a critical and integral role in enabling our customers' success, while remaining a key partner in enabling of the strength and leadership of the US semiconductor industry.

專案建成後，我們2奈米及以上製程的產能約30%將位於亞利桑那州，從而在美國打造一個獨立的領先半導體製造集群。這也將創造更大的規模經濟，並有助於在美國培育更完整的半導體供應鏈生態系統。因此，台積電繼續在幫助客戶取得成功方面發揮關鍵和不可或缺的作用，同時仍然是增強美國半導體產業實力和領導地位的關鍵合作夥伴。

Next, in Japan, thanks to the strong support from the Japan central, prefecture, and local governments, our first specialty technology fab in Kumamoto has already started volume production in late 2024 with a very good yield. The construction of our second specialty fab is scheduled to start later this year, subject to the readiness of the local infrastructure.

其次，在日本，由於日本中央、都道府縣和地方政府的大力支持，我們位於熊本的第一家特種技術工廠已於2024年底開始批量生產，並且產量非常好。我們的第二家專業工廠計劃於今年稍後開始建設，但要視當地基礎設施的準備情況而定。

In Europe, we have received strong commitment from the European Commission and the German Federal, state, and city government. We are on track with our plan to build a specialty technology fab in Dresden, Germany.

在歐洲，我們得到了歐盟委員會以及德國聯邦、州和市政府的堅定承諾。我們正在按照計劃在德國德勒斯登建造一座專業技術工廠。

In Taiwan, with support from the Taiwan government, we plan to build 11 wafer manufacturing fabs and four advanced packaging facilities over the next several years. Volume production of N2 is expected to start in second half 2025, and we are preparing for multiple phases of 2-nanometer fabs in both Hsinchu and Kaohsiung Science Parks to support the strong structural demand from our customers.

在台灣，在台灣政府的支持下，我們計劃在未來幾年內建造11座晶圓製造廠和4座先進封裝設施。N2 預計將於 2025 年下半年開始量產，我們正在新竹和高雄科學園區籌備多期 2 奈米晶圓廠，以滿足客戶強勁的結構性需求。

By expanding our global footprint while continuing investment in Taiwan, TSMC can continue to be the trusted technology and capacity provider of the global logic IC industry for years to come, while delivering profitable growth for our shareholders.

透過擴大我們的全球影響力並繼續在台灣投資，台積電可以在未來幾年繼續成為全球邏輯積體電路產業值得信賴的技術和產能供應商，同時為我們的股東帶來獲利成長。

Finally, I'll talk about our N2 status and A16 introduction. 2-nanometer and A16 technology leads the industry in addressing the insatiable need for energy-efficient computing and almost all the innovators are working with us.

最後我講一下我們的N2狀況和A16的介紹。 2 奈米和 A16 技術在滿足節能運算的無限需求方面引領產業，幾乎所有創新者都在與我們合作。

We expect the number of new tape-outs for 2-nanometer technology in the first two years to be higher than both 3-nanometer and 5-nanometer in their first two years, fueled by both smartphone and HPC applications.

我們預計，在智慧型手機和 HPC 應用的推動下，2 奈米技術在前兩年的新流片數量將高於 3 奈米和 5 奈米技術在前兩年的新流片數量。

N2 will deliver full node performance and power benefits with 10-15% speed improvement at the same power or [25]% (corrected by company after the call) to 30% power improvement at the same speed and more than 15% chip density increase as compared with N3E. N2 is well on track for volume production in the second half of 2025 as scheduled, with a ramp profile similar to N3. With our strategy of continuous enhancement, we also introduced N2P as an extension of N2 family. N2P features further performance and power benefits on top of N2 and volume production is scheduled for second half 2026.

N2 將提供全節點效能和功率優勢，與 N3E 相比，在相同功率下速度提高 10-15%，或在相同速度下功率提高 [25]%（電話會議後公司進行了更正）至 30%，晶片密度提高 15% 以上。N2 預計將按計畫於 2025 年下半年實現量產，其產量提升曲線與 N3 類似。秉持著持續增強的策略，我們也推出了 N2P 作為 N2 系列的擴充。N2P 在 N2 的基礎上具有進一步的性能和功率優勢，計劃於 2026 年下半年實現大量生產。

We also introduced A16, featuring super power rail or SPR, as a separate offering. Compared with the N2P, A16 provides a further 8% to 10% speed improvement at the same Power, or 15% to 20% power improvement at the same speed, and additional 7% to 10% chip density gain. A16 is best suited for specific HPC products with complex signal route and dense power delivery network. Volume production is scheduled for second half 2026.

我們也單獨推出了具有超級電力軌或 SPR 功能的 A16。A16相比N2P，在相同功率下，速度提升8%~10%，或在相同速度下，功耗提升15%~20%，晶片密度額外提升7%~10%。A16 最適合具有複雜訊號路由和密集電力傳輸網路的特定 HPC 產品。預計量產時間為 2026 年下半年。

We believe N2, N2P, A16, and its derivatives will further extend our technology leadership position enable TSMC to capture the growth opportunities into the future.

我們相信N2、N2P、A16及其衍生產品將進一步擴大我們的技術領導地位，使台積電能夠抓住未來的成長機會。

This concludes our key message, and thank you for your attention.

這就是我們的主要訊息，感謝您的關注。

Thank you, C.C. This concludes our prepared statements. (Event Instructions)

謝謝你，C.C.我們的準備聲明到此結束。（活動須知）

Now let's begin the Q&A session. Operator, can we please proceed with the first caller on the line?

現在我們開始問答環節。接線生，我們可以繼續接聽第一位來電嗎？

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

And first of all, thanks for clearing the air on all those JV-related news reports. I think a lot of people needed that. My first question is on AI demand. So C.C., there has been a lot of talks about CoWoS order adjustment and some concerns about AI demand.

首先，感謝您澄清所有與合資企業相關的新聞報導。我認為很多人都需要這個。我的第一個問題是關於人工智慧需求。所以 C.C.，關於 CoWoS 訂單調整和對 AI 需求的一些擔憂已經有很多討論。

You talked about CoWoS capacity doubling. Could you talk a little bit about how you see demand versus supply? I think last time we talked about this, you did indicate CoWoS demand is still well above supply. Could you talk a little bit about how the situation is looking for CoWoS demand versus supply this year? And maybe a little bit of early color on 2026 also as you plan for the capacity?

您談到了 CoWoS 容量翻倍。能否稍微談談您如何看待需求與供應？我想上次我們談論這個問題時，您確實指出 CoWoS 的需求仍然遠高於供應。您能否談談今年 CoWoS 的需求與供應情況如何？在規劃容量時，也許可以對 2026 年的情況進行一些早期的描述？

All right. Thank you, Gokul. For everyone's benefit, let me try to summarize your first question. So again, Gokul's first question is on the AI-related demand. He notes there's been a lot of noise around CoWoS and order cuts and such.

好的。謝謝你，Gokul。為了大家的利益，讓我試著總結一下您的第一個問題。所以，Gokul 的第一個問題是關於人工智慧相關的需求。他指出，圍繞 CoWoS 和訂單削減等問題已經引起了很多關注。

So he would like to ask C.C. what is the thinking or strategy for TSMC CoWoS still doubling this year? Is the demand still exceeding the supply? And how is the CoWoS capacity and supply or supply and demand, I should say, look like going into '26, if C.C. is able to provide any color?

所以他想問C.C.台積電CoWoS今年還翻倍生產，是何想法或策略？需求是否仍超過供應？那麼，如果 C.C. 進入 26 年，CoWoS 的產能和供應情況或供需情況如何？能提供任何顏色嗎？

Okay. Gokul, I know there're a lot of rumors about the CoWoS. The last time when we talk about the CoWoS, the demand is almost insane and much, much higher than we can prepare. And now it's a little bit better. I think still we need to build a lot of capacity to meet the demand.

好的。Gokul，我知道有很多關於 CoWoS 的謠言。上次我們談論 CoWoS 時，需求幾乎是瘋狂的，遠遠超出了我們所能準備的範圍。現在情況稍微好一點了。我認為我們仍然需要建造大量產能來滿足需求。

As I said, we have to double our CoWoS capacity. Still fully loaded. And for 2026, I cannot say the number, but it's still a healthy momentum while we continue. Okay. Did that answer your question?

正如我所說，我們必須將 CoWoS 容量提高一倍。依然滿載。對於 2026 年，我無法說出具體數字，但只要我們繼續前進，這仍然是一個健康的動力。好的。這回答了你的問題嗎？

So do you still think 2026 is going to be supply limited still, that demand is still going to be much more than supply even in 2026. Is that your current expectation you see?

那麼您是否仍認為 2026 年的供應仍將有限，甚至在 2026 年需求仍將遠遠超過供應。這是您目前的期望嗎？

So Gokul was asking, then do we still see demand exceeding supply for CoWoS in 2026?

所以 Gokul 問道，那麼到 2026 年我們是否仍會看到 CoWoS 的需求超過供應？

Well, we will work very hard to make sure that we don't have this demand much, much higher than the capacity. We're working very hard, and I believe that it will be more balanced next year.

嗯，我們會非常努力確保需求不會遠高於產能。我們正在非常努力地工作，我相信明年會更加平衡。

My second question is on the US. investment and all this like persistent rumors about involvement in your competitors, operations, et cetera. You have interacted with the US government, the new administration for the last several months and C.C. made a big announcement at the White House as well. Just wanted to understand what is -- what does TSMC’s impression in terms of what is required? Now that there is also the semiconductor tariffication going on. What is TSMC's impression of what is required over the next two years in terms of reshoring of capacity both from a US administration’s perspective and also from your US customers’ perspective.

第二個問題是關於美國的。投資以及有關參與競爭對手、營運等的持續謠言。在過去幾個月裡，您一直與美國政府、新政府以及 C.C. 保持互動。並在白宮發表了重要聲明。只是想了解一下──台積電對於所需條件有何看法？現在半導體關稅也正在實施中。從美國政府的角度以及美國客戶的角度來看，台積電對於未來兩年產能回流需要做什麼有什麼看法？

And I also -- I think Wendell also indicated that the margin dilution may be slightly bigger as we go along. So could you talk a little bit about how much of the value can you pass on to the customers as the expansion becomes a little bit more accelerated?

而且我認為溫德爾也表示，隨著我們的進展，利潤率的稀釋可能會稍微大一些。那麼，您能否談談，隨著擴張速度的加快，您能將多少價值傳遞給客戶？

Okay. So Gokul's second question is a bit involved, but he's asking about again, a lot of talk about our recent announcement for an additional $100 billion expansion in the US again, talk about this involving a competitor. C.C. has been speaking to the US government. There's still potential semiconductor tariff. So his question is really from TSMC's point of view, what do we think is required for more onshoring in the US? Can we share the perspective from the US government? Or more directly what our customers are asking us to do in terms of reshoring?

好的。因此，Gokul 的第二個問題有點複雜，但他再次詢問了我們最近宣布的在美國額外 1000 億美元擴張計劃的大量討論，並談論了涉及競爭對手的事情。C.C.一直在與美國政府對話。仍有潛在的半導體關稅。所以他的問題其實是從台積電的角度來看的，我們認為在美國增加在岸生產需要什麼？我們能否分享美國政府的觀點？或者更直接地說，我們的客戶要求我們在回流方面做什麼？

That's the first part. And the second part will -- maybe Wendell can address on them, too.

這是第一部分。第二部分——也許溫德爾也可以談論它們。

Really, Okay. I thought that's a very long, long question. Let me answer that. Yes, we -- indeed, we have talked with US government officials. And the reason we are expanding in Arizona actually, let me say again, it's all because of our customers' request. And that because of the very high, high demand. I announced it in other occasion that very strong AI demand from US customers such as Apple, NVIDIA, AMD, Qualcomm and Broadcom. And so that we need to expand our capacity in the US and to support them.

真的，好的。我認為這是一個非常長的問題。讓我來回答這個問題。是的，我們確實已經與美國政府官員進行了交談。實際上，我們在亞利桑那州擴張的原因，讓我再說一遍，都是因為客戶的要求。這是因為需求非常高。我在其他場合宣布過，蘋果、NVIDIA、AMD、高通和博通等美國客戶對人工智慧的需求非常強勁。因此我們需要擴大在美國的產能並為他們提供支援。

We talked with the US government and to ask for their help in getting the necessary permits so we can start the fab. And as a result, I would expect our 2-nanometer [and more advanced] (added by company after the call) capacity, around 30% will be in Arizona. And that will be also independent leading-edge semiconductor manufacturing cluster.

我們與美國政府進行了交談，請他們幫助我們獲得必要的許可，以便我們能夠啟動工廠。因此，我預計我們的 2 奈米（及更先進的）產能（該公司在電話會議後補充道）約 30% 將在亞利桑那州。這也將成為獨立的尖端半導體製造集群。

And then, Gokul, the second part of your question is related to the – sorry, Wendell had mentioned that the margin may widen. So Gokul’s second part of the question, I think, was related to pricing and what is our strategy or approach here as we expand overseas. Is that correct?

然後，Gokul，你問題的第二部分與…有關，抱歉，Wendell 提到利潤率可能會擴大。所以我認為，Gokul 問題的第二部分與定價有關，以及我們向海外擴張的策略或方法是什麼。對嗎？

Yes, that’s right. Yeah.

是的，沒錯。是的。

You’re asking about the pricing. As we always said, reflecting our value is a continuous and ongoing process for TSMC as well in a very capital-intensive business. So we need to have a very high gross margin to earn the sustainable and healthy return.

您詢問的是價格。正如我們一直所說，對於台積電這樣一個資本密集產業來說，體現我們的價值是一個持續不斷的過程。因此，我們需要有非常高的毛利率才能獲得可持續、健康的回報。

And that is why we set up our pricing strategy. Geographic manufacturing flexibility is an important part of our value proposition to the customers. We are already discussing this with our major customers, and the progress is so far so good.

這就是我們制定定價策略的原因。地理製造靈活性是我們向客戶提出的價值主張的重要組成部分。我們已經在與主要客戶討論此事，目前進展順利。

Okay. Gokul?

好的。戈庫爾？

Okay. Understood.

好的。明白了。

All right. Thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?

好的。謝謝。接線生，我們可以繼續接聽下一位參與者嗎？

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Bruce Lu。

I think the geopolitics is one of the major uncertainty nowadays. Last two days, we have like H20 being banned in China. So how does that impact TSMC’s forecast and production planning, right? Do we have enough other customer and demand to keep our advanced node capacity fully utilized? Or how does that change our long-term production planning moving forward?

我認為地緣政治是當今最大的不確定因素之一。過去兩天，中國禁止使用 H20。那麼這對台積電的預測和生產計畫有何影響？我們是否有足夠的其他客戶和需求來確保我們的先進節點容量得到充分利用？或者這會如何改變我們未來的長期生產計畫？

Your first question is related. He's talking about geopolitical risk or I guess some of the recent rules and announcements specifically the ban on H20. So his question is how does this impact TSMC's business? How does this impact capacity planning and our strategies?

您的第一個問題是相關的。他談論的是地緣政治風險，或者我猜是最近的一些規則和公告，特別是對 H20 的禁令。所以他的問題是這對台積電的業務有何影響？這對容量規劃和我們的策略有何影響？

Let me answer this question. Of course, we do not comment on specific customer product, but let me assure you that we have taken this into consideration when providing our full year growth outlook. Did I answer the question?

讓我來回答這個問題。當然，我們不會對特定的客戶產品發表評論，但我向你們保證，我們在提供全年成長展望時已經考慮到了這一點。我回答問題了嗎？

Yes, but I want a little bit more about -- I'm sure you guys did a lot of sensitivity analysis, like what impact is going to be? Or can you show us like how much buffer we got, that you’ve assumed, like how comfortable we have to maintain our current capacity planning moving forward or current utilization right now?

是的，但我想了解更多——我相信你們做了很多敏感度分析，例如會有什麼影響？或者您能否向我們展示我們有多少緩衝，您假設了多少，例如我們現在如何舒適地維持當前的產能規劃或當前的利用率？

Okay. So Bruce is asking for some more color in terms of what type of buffer or what type of room we have in making our decisions for the long-term capacity planning.

好的。因此，布魯斯要求在我們制定長期容量規劃決策時，提供有關緩衝類型或空間類型的更多詳細資訊。

Well, actually, we know a lot of people right now speculate a lot of things. But again, we certainly -- we are mindful of the potential impact from all the recent tariff announcements, especially the potential impact to the end market demand. We'll continue to watch it carefully.

嗯，實際上，我們知道現在很多人對很多事情進行猜測。但同樣，我們當然——我們注意到所有最近的關稅公告的潛在影響，特別是對終端市場需求的潛在影響。我們將繼續密切關注。

Having said that, we have not seen any change in our customers' behavior so far. And so we stick on our forecast.

話雖如此，到目前為止我們還沒有看到客戶行為有任何變化。因此我們堅持我們的預測。

I see. Let me switch gears a little bit for the non-US capacity expansion. I think yes, as we understand that the current capacity for mature node is under-utilized. Do we consider to slow down the capacity essentially in Japan or Europe?

我懂了。讓我稍微轉換一下話題，談談美國以外的產能擴張。我認為是的，因為我們知道成熟節點的當前容量尚未充分利用。我們是否考慮從本質上減緩日本或歐洲的產能？

Or just relocate the current equipment from Taiwan to Japan or Europe instead of building the new one? We don't want -- why do we want to expand the capacity for the mature nodes, which management already mentioned as the oversupply industry though. If we relocate them, we can squeeze more space, clean room in Taiwan for more advanced nodes.

或只是將現有設備從台灣遷移到日本或歐洲，而不是建造新的設備？我們不想－為什麼我們要擴大成熟節點的容量，儘管管理階層已經提到這是一個供應過剩的產業。如果我們重新安置它們，我們就可以擠出更多的空間，在台灣騰出更多的清潔空間來用於更先進的節點。

Okay. So Bruce, the second question is around mature node and our expansion into Europe and Japan. His question really is given that the capacity of mature node 7-nanometer underutilized. Number one, are we concerning to slow down our expansions in these places? And then number two, would we consider using current relocate equipment from Taiwan to overseas rather than just the pure new extension or greenfield expansion?

好的。布魯斯，第二個問題是關於成熟節點以及我們向歐洲和日本的擴張。他的問題實際上是考慮到成熟節點 7 奈米的產能尚未被充分利用。第一，我們是否打算放慢在這些地方的擴張速度？第二，我們是否會考慮使用目前從台灣搬遷到海外的設備，而不是單純的新擴建或綠地擴張？

Bruce, let me answer the first part of the question. Are we considering in slowing down, the answer is no. We executed our plan as scheduled. The reason is very simple, because of this kind of mature node is a specialty technologies’ demand, which my competitors did not have capacity or capability to support. So it’s kind of free from as you mentioned under-loading mature nodes. So again I would emphasize, no, we are not going to slow down our plan in Japan or in Germany.

布魯斯，讓我來回答問題的第一部分。我們是否考慮放慢速度？答案是否定的。我們按計劃執行了我們的計劃。原因很簡單，因為這種成熟的節點是專業技術的需求，我的競爭對手沒有能力或能力支持。因此，正如您所提到的，它不受成熟節點負載不足的影響。所以我再次強調，我們不會放慢在日本或德國的計畫。

The second question is how to do it. We have a good idea, but it's TSMC's confidential information. I'll let you know later.

第二個問題是如何做。我們有個好主意，但這是台積電的機密資訊。我稍後會通知你。

All right. Thanks, Bruce. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please.

好的。謝謝，布魯斯。接線生，請問我們可以接聽下一位參與者嗎？

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

陳查理 (Charlie Chan)，摩根士丹利。

My first question is really very specific on the semiconductor tariffs on either Taiwan or TSMC’s leading edge. So I'm wondering, first of all, does the TSMC get involved in all those tariff negotiations between Taiwan government and the US government?

我的第一個問題是關於台灣或台積電領先優勢的半導體關稅的具體問題。所以我想知道，首先，台積電是否參與了台灣政府和美國政府之間的所有關稅談判？

And secondly, do you believe that your commitment of USD165 billion investments can get us spare on these semiconductor tariff? Because in your previous comment, it seems to only concerned about the tariff impact on consumer tech demand. But I think global investors are also very concerned about additional tariffs on this semiconductor category. Can you give us some color?

其次，您是否認為您承諾的1,650億美元投資能讓我們免除半導體關稅？因為在您先前的評論中，它似乎只關注關稅對消費者技術需求的影響。但我認為全球投資者也非常擔心針對這一半導體類別徵收額外關稅。你能給我們一些顏色嗎？

Okay. Let me summarize your question. First question, Charlie. So Charlie's first question is on semiconductor tariffs. He wants to know what is our comment or view on potential tariffs on Taiwan, reciprocal tariffs or semiconductor-specific tariffs.

好的。讓我總結一下你的問題。第一個問題，查理。所以查理的第一個問題是關於半導體關稅的。他想知道我們對對台灣的潛在關稅、互惠關稅或針對半導體的關稅有何評論或看法。

His question specifically, is TSMC get involved in in negotiations between the Taiwan government and the US government?

他的問題具體是，台積電是否介入台灣政府與美國政府的談判？

Charlie, this tariff discussion is between countries. We are a private company. Certainly, no, we are not getting involved. What is the second question?

查理，這次關稅討論是國家之間的討論。我們是一家私人公司。當然，不，我們不會參與其中。第二個問題是什麼？

Okay. Yeah. So actually, do you have any visibility that the semiconductor specific tariffs can be exempt?

好的。是的。那麼實際上，您是否知道半導體特定關稅可以免除？

Sorry, Charlie, I think your question was with our total investment of USD165 billion in Arizona. Do we believe, does TSMC believe semiconductors will be exempt from these tariffs?

抱歉，查理，我想你的問題是關於我們在亞利桑那州的總投資 1650 億美元。我們是否相信，台積電是否相信半導體將免於這些關稅？

Charlie, all policy especially this tariff decision are government's responsibility to decide. And as a private company, we are fully respectful of this, but we are not get involved.

查理，所有政策特別是這項關稅決定都是政府的責任。作為一家私人公司，我們完全尊重這一點，但我們不會介入。

Okay. Got you. I think you were too moderate, but let's move on to my second question. So based on your second quarter guidance, which is very strong, up 13% quarter-on-quarter. I can't help to think whether there are customers pull-in given the tariffs. Or is it real demand?

好的。明白了。我認為你太溫和了，但讓我們繼續我的第二個問題。因此，根據您第二季的預測，這是非常強勁的，環比成長 13%。我不禁想，考慮到關稅，是否會吸引顧客。或者說這是真實的需求？

And also based on your full year guidance, so called the mid-20%, it seems like second half recovery will be very, very gradual or flattish. So I'm wondering if you already bake in consumer tech demand impact. And if a tariff have some turnaround, right, meaning some exemption on, for example, major smartphone brands, whether there's a chance for you to revise your full year revenue guidance?

而且根據您對全年的預測，也就是所謂的 20% 中段，看起來下半年的復甦將會非常非常緩慢或持平。所以我想知道您是否已經考慮了消費者技術需求的影響。如果關稅出現一些轉變，例如對主要智慧型手機品牌有一些豁免，是否有機會修改全年收入預期？

Okay. So Charlie, second question is on the revenue outlook is first part is on the second quarter. He noted second quarter, 13% at the midpoint in US dollar terms, Q-on-Q is very strong. So he wonders, is this -- are we seeing already some tariffs pull-in impact? Or is this part of that guidance? I'll stop here first.

好的。查理，第二個問題是關於收入前景，第一部分是關於第二季的。他指出，第二季度，以美元計算的中間值成長了 13%，環比成長非常強勁。所以他想知道，我們是否已經看到了一些關稅拉動效應？或者這是該指導的一部分？我先在這裡停下來。

Yeah, Charlie, we have -- as we said in the prepared remarks, we haven't seen any changes in customers' behavior so far. Our second quarter growth was driven mainly by strong demand for the 3-nanometer and 5-nanometer technologies underpinned by the growth in our HPC platform. As I said, we haven't seen any -- observed any changes in customer behavior in terms of pull-in or due to tariff tariffs, you're probably better to ask them directly.

是的，查理，正如我們在準備好的演講中所說，到目前為止我們還沒有看到客戶行為有任何變化。我們第二季的成長主要得益於對 3 奈米和 5 奈米技術的強勁需求，而這又得益於我們 HPC 平台的成長。正如我所說，我們還沒有看到任何——觀察到客戶行為在拉動或由於關稅而發生的任何變化，你最好直接問他們。

And the second part then Charlie is asking about what the second quarter guidance implies limited half-on-half growth. So is that also because we are assuming something from tariff impact to consumer demand? Or why is that?

第二部分，查理詢問第二季指引是否意味著有限的年成長。那麼，這是不是也是因為我們假設了關稅對消費者需求的影響呢？或者為什麼會這樣？

Charlie, as we also said in the prepared remarks, there are uncertainties and potential risk from tariffs exist. So, so far, that's what we are able to share with you is we stick to the mid-20 or close to mid-20% year-over-year growth. No different from the previous quarter.

查理，正如我們在準備好的演講中所說，存在著不確定性和關稅帶來的潛在風險。因此，到目前為止，我們可以與大家分享的是，我們堅持 20% 左右或接近 20% 左右的同比增長率。與上一季沒有什麼不同。

I see. So yeah, so I think that's real. But I think your answer to Gokul’s previous question on long-term margin dilution was a little bit unclear because we thought that a 2% to 3% margin dilution from overseas should remain to be the case, but it seems like it’s widening. So I'm not sure if you use because you are further accelerating your US fab expansion or some cost item or pricing item or not in your stations versus maybe one or two months ago.

我懂了。是的，所以我認為這是真的。但我認為您對 Gokul 之前關於長期利潤率稀釋的問題的回答有點不清楚，因為我們認為海外 2% 到 3% 的利潤率稀釋應該會繼續存在，但看起來這個差距正在擴大。因此，我不確定您是否使用，因為您正在進一步加速美國晶圓廠的擴張，或者某些成本項目或定價項目是否在您的站點中，與一兩個月前相比。

Okay. I think, so Charlie is asking basically how come the dilution in the latter period widens to 3% to 4%? What are the drivers or reasons behind it?

好的。我認為，查理基本上是在問，為什麼後期稀釋度會擴大到 3% 到 4%？背後的驅動因素或原因是什麼？

Yeah, Charlie, the widening of dilution on the gross margin in the later part of the five-year period is mainly from inflation in cost and also potential tariff-related cost increases. Those are the reasons.

是的，查理，五年期後半段毛利率稀釋的擴大主要是由於成本上漲以及潛在的關稅相關成本增加。這些就是原因。

Okay. Operator, let's move on to the next participant, please. .

好的。接線員，請讓我們轉到下一位參與者。。

Charles Shi, Needham.

查爾斯·施，尼德漢姆。

Maybe I'll ask a relatively higher level question. It's a two-part question. Both are regarding your expansion plan in the United States. I think management – in another occasion that what TSMC wants the most is really fairness. Nothing monetary, nothing about tariffs, but fairness and management kind of elaborate a little bit what fairness means, give us a little bit more specifics.

也許我會問一個相對較高層次的問題。這是一個由兩部分組成的問題。兩者都與您在美國擴張的計劃有關。我認為管理階層──在另一個場合，台積電最想要的其實是公平。沒有涉及金錢，也沒有涉及關稅，但公平和管理有點詳細說明公平的含義，給我們更具體一點。

But the other part of the question regarding the US expansion, it's about the R&D team center now that we understand, yes, the TSMC's R&D in the US does need to start somewhere, right, you said it's more about the production improvements related to R&D on derivative nodes. But since this seems to be something US really cares about the R&D capability on the US soil on the leading edge, is there any longer-term plan to have the U.S. R&D center to be involved, let's say, in the primary R&D, let's say, brand new processes, the major nodes development that -- that's my two-part question.

但是關於美國擴張的另一部分問題，現在我們知道了是關於研發團隊中心的，是的，台積電在美國的研發確實需要從某個地方開始，對吧，你說這更多的是關於衍生節點研發相關的生產改進。但由於這似乎是美國真正關心的事情，即美國本土的前沿研發能力，是否有任何長期計劃讓美國研發中心參與其中，比如說，參與主要的研發，比如說，全新流程，主要節點的開發 - 這是我的兩個問題。

So again, to summarize, both questions are related to the expansion in the US. So first part of the question is we -- C.C. has mentioned, all we want is fair treatment. So what do we mean by fair or fairness?

所以，再總結一下，這兩個問題都跟美國的擴張有關。所以問題的第一部分是我們——C.C.正如所提到的，我們所要求的只是公平的待遇。那麼我們所說的公平或公正到底是什麼意思呢？

Well, let me answer this question. What do we mean the fair treatment it's very simple. If anybody gets a subsidy or get the incentive, it should be everybody should get the same. Either we got all or we got zero, all right? So that's what we call it fair. So again, I would like to assure you that we are -- we will be very competitive in either conditions.

好吧，讓我來回答這個問題。我們所說的公平待遇是什麼意思呢？這很簡單。如果有人獲得補貼或獲得獎勵，那麼每個人都應該得到相同的待遇。要嘛我們全部得到，要嘛一無所獲，好嗎？這就是我們所說的公平。因此，我再次向你們保證，無論在何種情況下，我們都將具有極強的競爭力。

Okay. And then the second part of the question is regarding the R&D. Charles is saying he understands the R&D needs to start from somewhere, but with our major R&D center in Arizona, what will be the purpose or the focus? And will it be involved at some point in ramping new technologies?

好的。問題的第二部分是關於研發的。查爾斯說，他明白研發需要從某個地方開始，但是我們的主要研發中心在亞利桑那州，目的或重點是什麼？它是否會參與新技術的推廣中？

As I said before, TSMC’s fab never stays stagnant. We always continue to improve it. And we need to establish a major R&D center in Arizona with about 1,000 engineers. That's a big amount. The focus will be support our manufacturing cluster, improve its technology, and allow it to operate independently. Okay. Did I answer the question?

正如我之前所說，台積電的晶圓廠從未停滯不前。我們始終不斷改進它。我們需要在亞利桑那州建立一個擁有約 1,000 名工程師的大型研發中心。這是一個很大的數字。重點是支持我們的製造業集群，改進其技術，並使其獨立運作。好的。我回答問題了嗎？

Maybe let me just really follow up because there has been a good amount of chatters about the US. R&D center more supporting manufacturing rather than doing a brand -- major R&D, the brand new nodes, but it looks like that's not the plan, but over the longer term, is there any thoughts of our management, maybe they will get involved in brand-new nodes development one way or the other. I think that's the question people have been discussed about over the last quarter.

也許讓我真正跟進一下，因為關於美國的討論已經很多了。研發中心更支持製造業，而不是做品牌——主要的研發，全新的節點，但這看起來不是計劃，但從長遠來看，我們的管理層有什麼想法，也許他們會以某種方式參與全新節點的開發。我認為這是人們在過去一個季度一直在討論的問題。

Okay. So Charles is asking, will the R&D center over the mid to long term. Can you also focus on things like new node development or path finding opportunities, long-term research, these type of things?

好的。所以查爾斯問，研發中心是否會在中長期發揮作用。您還可以關注新節點開發或路徑尋找機會、長期研究等事情嗎？

Okay. Actually, the first purpose is that Arizona fab can operate independently. But of course, we have done -- and we are doing it right now to some kind of pathfinding, exploratory work and cooperate with university, blah, blah. It's actually a lot of activities. 1,000 engineers is not a small amount. Of course, it's not comparable to TSMC right now, it's a 10,000 R&D people, but it's a beginning, okay? So we’ll do a lot more.

好的。其實，第一個目的是讓亞利桑那工廠能夠獨立運作。但當然，我們已經做了——而且我們現在正在做一些探索性的工作，並與大學合作，等等。事實上有很多活動。 1000名工程師並不是一個小數目。當然現在和台積電是沒法比的，台積電有1萬名研發人員，但這也是一個開始，好嗎？因此我們會做更多的事情。

Okay, Charles, do you have a second question?

好的，查爾斯，你還有第二個問題嗎？

No, I don't.

不，我不知道。

Okay. Great. Operator, the next participant, please?

好的。偉大的。接線員，請問下一位參與者是誰？

Sunny Lin, UBS.

瑞銀的 Sunny Lin。

So my first question is to follow up on the Arizona expansions. So first part is on the timeline or the pace of your expansion. Now given the stronger demand for your US capacities, to what extent could you pull in the ramp of the original second and third phase? And for your fourth phase, you earlier mentioned you will be constructing the fab shell later this year.

所以我的第一個問題是跟進亞利桑那州的擴張情況。所以第一部分是關於時間表或擴張的步伐。現在，鑑於對您在美國的產能的需求越來越大，您可以在多大程度上拉動原有的第二和第三階段的產能提升？對於第四階段，您之前提到將在今年稍後建造晶圓廠外殼。

So with that, will be possible that you start to ramp the fourth phase at the same time as the third phase?

那麼，您是否有可能在第三階段的同時開始推進第四階段？

Okay. So Sunny's first question is regarding our GIGAFAB cluster in Arizona. She wants to understand the timeline of expansion, particularly given the strong AI-related demand. Can we pull in the timing for both the second fab and the third fab? And also, can we, at the same time, start the production of the third and fourth fab simultaneously?

好的。因此，Sunny 的第一個問題是關於我們位於亞利桑那州的 GIGAFAB 集群。她想了解擴張的時間表，特別是考慮到強勁的人工智慧相關需求。我們能否同步第二座晶圓廠和第三座晶圓廠的建造時間？另外，我們可以同時開始第三和第四個工廠的生產嗎？

Well, Sunny, we are working very hard to speed it up of our production in the second fab and the construction of the third fab. All I can say now is customers’ demand is strong. We have to really to speed it up. And the following all the fabs definitely will depend on our customers' demand, of course.

嗯，Sunny，我們正在努力加快第二座工廠的生產和第三座工廠的建設。我現在只能說客戶的需求很強烈。我們必須加快速度。當然，接下來的所有晶圓廠肯定都取決於我們客戶的需求。

Okay, Sunny?

好的，桑尼？

Well, so sorry, just to clarify. So the second phase originally is planning for production in 2028. So now should we assume it to be from maybe mid-2027 or even first half 2027? And for the third phase since you are building the fab shell this year, so will the production start maybe one year ahead versus the original timeline of 2030?

嗯，非常抱歉，只是想澄清一下。因此第二階段最初計劃於 2028 年投入生產。那麼現在我們是否應該假設它可能是 2027 年中期，甚至是 2027 年上半年？對於第三階段，由於你們今年正在建造晶圓廠外殼，生產是否會比原定的 2030 年時間表提前一年開始？

Okay. So Sunny, specifically, so the second one, we said we're speeding up. Can we give some context of the time frame? And then for the third fab, will we also speed it up, could that also be moved forward?

好的。所以 Sunny，具體來說，第二個，我們說我們正在加速。我們可以提供一些時間框架的背景嗎？那麼對於第三家工廠，我們也會加快速度嗎，這也能提前進行嗎？

Okay. Yes, we are speeding up. How fast? The second fab, as you said, it should be pulled in. And this one, we are working hard to pull in at least a couple of quarters that's at least.

好的。是的，我們正在加快速度。多快？第二座晶圓廠，如你所說，應該被拉進來。而這一次，我們正在努力爭取至少幾季的收益。

On the third fab, actually, I did not speak the whole thing is also being constrained by the labor shortage of Arizona, and we need to get all the permits, everything, et cetera. So I cannot give you a very definite date yet, but we are going to update you probably in the next quarter or one quarter after that.

關於第三家工廠，實際上，我沒有說整個計畫也受到亞利桑那州勞動力短缺的限制，我們需要獲得所有的許可證、一切等等。因此，我還不能給你一個非常確定的日期，但我們可能會在下個季度或下個季度向你更新消息。

Got it. No problem. My second question is on the pricing and margin of the overseas expansions. And so now with the -- especially stronger demand for the US capacities, would you be able to sell more value given the stronger onshoring requirements?

知道了。沒問題。我的第二個問題是關於海外擴張的定價和利潤。那麼現在，隨著對美國產能的需求尤其強勁，在更強的在岸化要求下，您是否能夠銷售出更多有價值的產品？

And then for margin, earlier, you mentioned the 2% to 3% margin dilution for the coming two, three years and then expanding to 3% to 4% maybe into 2029 to 2030. I just wonder what the underlying wafer price assumption for that gross margin dilution estimate? If you are able to raise the AZ pricing a bit, will the gross margin dilution could be less?

至於利潤率，之前您提到未來兩三年利潤率將下降 2% 至 3%，到 2029 年至 2030 年可能會擴大到 3% 至 4%。我只是想知道該毛利率稀釋估計的底層晶圓價格假設是什麼？如果您能夠稍微提高 AZ 定價，毛利率稀釋是否會減少？

Okay. So Sunny's question is on the overseas expansion in both pricing and margin, given the strong demand in terms of pricing, can we reflect even greater value to our customers? And therefore -- and also her question is given that the dilution from overseas will widen to 3% to 4% in the latter stages of the five-year period, she wants to know what is our underlying wafer price assumption behind us.

好的。因此，Sunny 的問題是，在定價和利潤方面的海外擴張方面，鑑於定價方面的強勁需求，我們能否為客戶帶來更大的價值？因此——而且她的問題是，鑑於海外的稀釋將在五年期的後期擴大到 3％ 至 4％，她想知道我們背後的基本晶圓價格假設是什麼。

Sunny, let me answer that. These two things are actually go together. As we said, reflecting our value is a continuous and ongoing process. And we -- because of our business nature, we need very high gross margin to earn a sustainable and healthy return. Now geographic manufacturing flexibility is an important part of our value proposition to the customers.

桑尼，讓我來回答這個問題。這兩件事其實是相輔相成的。正如我們所說，體現我們的價值是一個持續不斷的過程。而且，由於我們的業務性質，我們需要非常高的毛利率才能獲得可持續、健康的回報。現在，地理製造靈活性是我們向客戶提出的價值主張的重要組成部分。

Therefore, we are already discussing this with our major customers. And the progress is so far so good, okay? Now at the same time, the margin dilution from the overseas fabs, the additional dilutions come from the cost inflation as well as potential cost increases from the tariff policies. Of course, with that, we also want to reflect the value and therefore, the discussion with the customers are continuous.

因此，我們已經在與主要客戶討論此事。到目前為止進展還不錯，好嗎？現在，與此同時，海外晶圓廠的利潤率稀釋，額外的稀釋來自成本通膨以及關稅政策帶來的潛在成本增加。當然，我們也希望體現價值，因此與客戶的討論是持續的。

Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?

接線生，我們可以繼續接聽下一位參與者嗎？

Brett Simpson, Arete.

布雷特·辛普森，阿雷特。

I have a two-part question on this year's guidance for C.C. First. C.C., you mentioned that AI is still expected to double this year despite the US ban on AI GPUs into China.

關於今年 C.C. 的指導，我有兩個問題。第一的。C.C.，您提到，儘管美國禁止人工智慧 GPU 進入中國，但預計今年人工智慧仍將翻倍。

And I guess, China was a meaningful portion of accelerated shipments, well over 10% of volumes. So factoring this in, it would imply your AI outlook this year, still doubling would mean that the AI orders have improved meaningfully outside of China in the last three months? Is that how we should interpret your comment about you still expect the business to double? And then second, we're in the June quarter where tariffs have been paused for 90 days.

我想，中國在加速出貨量中佔有相當大的份額，遠超過 10%。因此，考慮到這一點，這是否意味著您今年的人工智慧前景仍然翻倍，是否意味著過去三個月中國以外的人工智慧訂單有了顯著改善？我們應該這樣解讀您關於「您仍期望業務翻倍」的評論嗎？其次，我們目前處於 6 月季度，關稅已暫停 90 天。

So to what extent due to above seasonal June quarter guidance reflect customer pull-ins ahead of potential tariffs being applied in the September quarter?

那麼，6 月份季度業績高於季節性預期在多大程度上反映了 9 月份季度潛在關稅實施之前客戶的吸引力？

Okay. So Brett, this question is on, again, the one part is on the AI demand that although there is a ban in China, on certain AI chips or products that we reiterated our AI accelerated growth will double this year. So his assumption is that implies a strong non-China AI-related demand. I'm wondering what is the mechanics or can we comment beyond that?

好的。所以 Brett，這個問題的一部分是關於人工智慧的需求，儘管中國對某些人工智慧晶片或產品有禁令，但我們重申，今年我們的人工智慧加速成長將翻倍。因此，他的假設是，這意味著強勁的非中國人工智慧相關需求。我想知道其機制是什麼，或者我們可以對此進行評論嗎？

Brett, three months ago. Now, I can tell you that three months ago, we are -- we just cannot supply enough wafer to our customer. And now it's a little bit balanced, but still, the demand is very strong. And you are right. Other than China, the demand is still very strong, especially in the US. And so we are confident that we are going to double our AI revenue this year.

布雷特，三個月前。現在，我可以告訴你，三個月前，我們無法提供客戶足夠的晶圓。現在情況稍微平衡了，但需求仍然非常強勁。你是對的。除中國外，需求仍然非常強勁，尤其是美國。因此我們有信心今年我們的人工智慧收入將翻倍。

Yeah. And then very quickly, he was asking about the second quarter revenue guidance. And do we see any tariff-related pull-in? I think Wendell answered this earlier.

是的。然後他很快就詢問了第二季的收入預期。我們是否看到任何與關稅相關的拉力？我認為溫德爾早些時候回答了這個問題。

Yeah. I think that we have, as C.C. said in his prepared remarks, we haven't seen any changes in customer behavior. The growth in second quarter was primarily due to the demand from our 3-nanometer and 5-nanometer technologies underpin the demand from the HPC platform.

是的。我認為我們已經做到了，正如 C.C. 一樣。他在準備好的發言中表示，我們沒有看到客戶行為有任何改變。第二季的成長主要歸功於我們的 3 奈米和 5 奈米技術的需求支撐了 HPC 平台的需求。

Okay. Do you have a second question, Brett? Sorry.

好的。你還有第二個問題嗎，布雷特？對不起。

My second question was for Wendell, and thanks for clarifying that, Wendell. Follow-up is on shareholder returns. And TSMC traditionally has always favored growing the dividends as the main policy. But many shareholders would argue that the dividend payouts are not having that much of an impact on the discounted multiple that TSMC trades at versus some of your US big tech peers.

我的第二個問題是問溫德爾的，謝謝你澄清這一點，溫德爾。後續關注的是股東回報。而台積電傳統上也一直以增加股利為主要政策。但許多股東認為，相較於一些美國大型科技公司，股利支付對台積電的折價本益比並沒有太大影響。

So my question is why does TSMC management not adopt a buyback framework, particularly with the strength of the cash position on your balance sheet at the moment?

所以我的問題是，為什麼台積電管理階層不採用回購框架，特別是在目前資產負債表上的現金狀況強勁的情況下？

So Brett's second question is circulated on shareholder return. He noted TSMC's policy has always been stable and steadily increasing cash dividend and focused on cash dividend payout. His question is why do we -- would we consider, why do we not consider adopting more of a buyback policy, share buyback policy?

因此，布雷特的第二個問題是關於股東的回報。他指出，台積電的政策一向是穩定、穩定增加現金分紅，並專注於現金分紅。他的問題是，為什麼我們會考慮，為什麼我們不考慮採取更多的回購政策、股票回購政策？

We've done studies a long time ago, and we continue to revisit that. We also talk to investors our conclusion stays the same. The sustainable and steadily increased dividends is a better way of returning cash to the shareholders. So we're maintaining the policy.

我們很久以前就做過研究，並且我們將繼續重新審視它。我們也與投資者進行了交談，我們的結論保持不變。持續、穩定增加的股利是向股東返還現金的更好方式。因此我們維持該政策。

All right. All right. Operator, in the interest of time, can we take the questions from the last two participants, please?

好的。好的。接線員，為了節省時間，我們可以回答最後兩位參與者的問題嗎？

Laura Chen, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Laura Chen。

Yes. My question is also about the AI and also the US expansion. C.C. just mentioned that the CoWoS supply demand will be more balanced into 2026. Do you see any structural change in the future AI chip design when moving to N3 such as like a chiplet that kind of design. And also in that new trend, what TSMC's view on the new technologies, such as CPO or PLP panel base. Will that still start from Taiwan first? Or you would also consider to further invest the new like back-end technology in Arizona, since C.C. just mentioned that you would also start to build up the fab in advanced packaging in Arizona.

是的。我的問題也與人工智慧和美國擴張有關。C.C.剛才提到到2026年CoWoS的供需會更加平衡。當轉向 N3 時，您是否認為未來的 AI 晶片設計會發生任何結構性變化，例如像 chiplet 這樣的設計。還有在這個新趨勢下，台積電對CPO或PLP面板基座等新技術有何看法？還是先從台灣開始嗎？或者您還會考慮在亞利桑那州進一步投資新的後端技術，因為 C.C.剛才提到，您還將開始在亞利桑那州建立先進封裝工廠。

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

This question is a very broad question. But basically, if I just try to distil. She wants to know do we see any changes in the chip design, particularly moving to chiplets? With N3, do we see this more and more? What about the role of things like co-packaged optics and panel level packaging.

這個問題是一個非常廣泛的問題。但基本上，如果我只是嘗試提煉。她想知道我們是否看到晶片設計有任何變化，特別是轉向小晶片？有了 N3，我們是否越來越常看到這種情況？那麼共同封裝光學元件和麵板級封裝等的作用又如何呢？

And I think the essence of the question, will we continue to use our leading -- sorry, advanced packaging technologies like CoWoS or SoIC in Taiwan first? Or is this also part of the plan for the expansion in Arizona?

我認為問題的本質是，我們是否會繼續在台灣首先使用我們領先的——抱歉，先進的封裝技術，如 CoWoS 或 SoIC？或者這也是亞利桑那州擴張計劃的一部分？

That's a long question. But Laura, yes, our customers, they continue to use that TSMC’s leading edge technology, and they also adopt the advanced packaging technologies more and more. And also, more advanced, right? This year is probably most of CoWoS-S and then next year CoWoS-L, et cetera. And we can see that customers start to pick up the SoIC and more advanced packaging technologies. As for the -- what we call panel level packaging, we are aggressively developing it. And today, it’s still in the feasibility study stage. Too early to say it will be in Europe, in Taiwan or in US. But most likely, it will be in Taiwan first, we ramp it up and then bring to US.

這是一個很長的問題。但是勞拉，是的，我們的客戶繼續使用台積電的領先技術，他們也越來越多地採用先進的封裝技術。而且更先進，對吧？今年可能大部分是 CoWoS-S，明年是 CoWoS-L，等等。我們可以看到客戶開始採用SoIC和更先進的封裝技術。至於我們所說的面板級封裝，我們正在積極開發它。如今，它仍處於可行性研究階段。現在說它會在歐洲、台灣或美國推出還為時過早。但最有可能的是，它會先在台灣推出，我們先擴大規模，然後再帶到美國。

And also my second question is also about the capacity allocation between Taiwan and also Arizona. C.C. you just shared with us that for about like 30% of N2 capacity will be in Arizona. May we know it will be starting from when or what time frame you are looking for? Can we also assume that the same scale like 30% of your Arizona fab for the advanced node in the longer term?

我的第二個問題也是關於台灣和亞利桑那州之間的產能分配。C.C.您剛剛告訴我們，大約 30% 的 N2 容量將在亞利桑那州。我們是否可以知道它將從何時開始或您想要的時間範圍？我們是否也可以假設從長遠來看，亞利桑那州晶圓廠的先進節點規模將達到 30% 左右？

Okay. So Laura's second question is about the capacity allocation between -- how do we allocate between Taiwan and the US? Maybe is it duplicative or extra capacity? And then very specific, CC had mentioned that N2 and more advanced capacity, around 30% will be in Arizona once we scale up to the cluster. Will that be the percentage for the leading node in the future?

好的。那麼勞拉的第二個問題是關於台灣和美國之間的產能分配——我們要如何分配？也許是重複或額外的容量？然後非常具體，CC 提到，一旦我們擴展到集群，N2 和更先進的容量（約 30%）將在亞利桑那州。這會是未來領先節點的百分比嗎？

Well, we have -- right now, we plan six fabs in Arizona. And in that six fabs, 2-nanometer will be a major node, and that's what I say, 30% will be there. As time goes by, after the 2-nanometer will be 1.4 and 1.0, that has not been discussed yet.

嗯，我們現在計劃在亞利桑那州建立六座晶圓廠。在這六座晶圓廠中，2 奈米將是一個主要節點，這就是我所說的，30％將在那裡。隨著時間的推移，2奈米之後將是1.4奈米和1.0奈米，這還沒有討論。

Operator, can we take the last part questions from the last participant, please.

接線員，請問我們可以回答上一位參與者的最後一個問題嗎？

Krish Sankar, Cowen.

克里什·桑卡爾，考恩。

My first one is very impressive given uncertainty, you're still maintaining full year revenue guidance and also your N2 capacity planned for this year and next year. Kind of curious, what is your visibility on second half revenues and also N2 demand for wafers into next year? And then I have a follow-up.

第一個讓我印象深刻的是，考慮到不確定性，您仍然維持全年收入指引以及今年和明年的 N2 產能計畫。有點好奇，您對下半年的收入以及明年 N2 對晶圓的需求有何看法？然後我有一個後續問題。

Okay. So Krish's, first question is sort of in the near term, what is our visibility into the second half business outlook? And then also, how do we see the demand for N2 progressing this year and also next year?

好的。因此，Krish 的第一個問題是，在短期內，我們對下半年業務前景的預見如何？那麼，我們如何看待今年和明年對 N2 的需求發展？

Okay. Let me talk about the first one. We're only at second quarter. So I think it's too early to talk about the second half. We did mention that the uncertainties and risks from tariffs exist, and we might get a better picture in the next few months. So we can probably update you in the next earnings call.

好的。我先說第一個。我們才進入第二季。所以我認為現在談論下半場還為時過早。我們確實提到了關稅帶來的不確定性和風險，未來幾個月我們可能會對情況有更清晰的了解。因此我們可能會在下次收益電話會議上向您通報最新情況。

And then the second part of it is on the demand visibility of our 2-nanometer.

第二部分是關於我們的 2 奈米的需求可見度。

So far actually -- so far, it's very strong. As we said, all the new tape-out customers -- the number of the tape-out is exceeding what we expected. And as we said, the number of the new tape-out is much higher than the 3-nanometer and 5-nanometer in the same period of time.

事實上，到目前為止，它非常強勁。正如我們所說，所有新的流片客戶——流片數量都超出了我們的預期。正如我們所說，新流片的數量遠高於同期的 3 奈米和 5 奈米。

Okay. And did you have a second question, Krish?

好的。你還有第二個問題嗎，Krish？

Yeah. Just one quick follow-up. You spoke about the Japan fab. I'm curious what is the capacity installed in Japan today? And how do you think about the revenue contribution this year from Japan?

是的。只需快速跟進一次。您談到了日本工廠。我很好奇日本目前安裝的容量是多少？您如何看待今年來自日本的收入貢獻？

Okay. Krish's second question is related to our first specialty technology fab in Japan. He wants to know what is the capacity installed for this specialty technology fab and also the revenue contribution from JASM?

好的。Krish 的第二個問題與我們在日本的第一個專業技術工廠有關。他想知道這家專業技術工廠的產能是多少，以及 JASM 的收入貢獻是多少？

Yeah. The capacity for the fab will be [55,000] (corrected by company after the call) when its ramp up. The revenue for this year compared to the whole company is really not significant at this moment.

是的。當該晶圓廠達到產能時，其產能將達到[55,000]（電話會議後公司進行了更正）。目前來看，今年的收入相對於整個公司來說確實不算多。

Thank you, everyone. That concludes our question-and-answer session, before we conclude today's conference, please be advised that the replay of the conference call will be accessible within 30 minutes from now. The transcript will become available 24 hours from now, and both will be available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

謝謝大家。我們的問答環節到此結束，在今天的會議結束之前，請注意，電話會議的重播將在 30 分鐘內提供。會議記錄將於 24 小時後公佈，並可透過台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 取得。

So thank you again for joining us today. We hope everyone continues to stay well and hope to join -- you will join us again next quarter. Goodbye, and have a good day. Take care. Thank you.

再次感謝您今天加入我們。我們希望每個人都能繼續保持健康，並希望加入——您將在下個季度再次加入我們。再見，祝你有美好的一天。小心。謝謝。