台積電 ADR (TSM) 2026 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(spoken in foreign language) Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to TSMC's third quarter 2026 earnings conference call. This is Jeff Su, TSMC Director of Investor Relations and your host for today. TSMC is hosting our earnings conference call via live audio webcast through the company's website at www.tsmc.com, where you can also download the earnings release materials. (Operator Instructions)

（以外語發言）各位下午好，歡迎參加台積電2026年第三季法說會。我是台積電投資人關係處處長蘇杰夫（Jeff Su），也是今天的主持人。台積電透過公司網站www.tsmc.com以即時音訊網路直播方式舉行本次法說會，您也可於該網站下載本次財報新聞稿相關資料。（接線員指示）

The format for today's event will be as follows. First, TSMC's Senior Vice President and CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, will summarize our operations in the third quarter 2026, followed by our guidance for the fourth quarter 2026. Then Ms. [Fam] and TSMC's Chairman and CEO, Dr. C.C. Wei will jointly provide the company's key messages. That will be followed -- then we will open the line for the Q&A session.

今天會議流程如下。首先，台積電資深副總經理暨財務長黃仁昭先生（Wendell Huang）將摘要說明2026年第三季營運概況，並提供2026年第四季展望指引。接著，[Fam]女士與台積電董事長暨總裁魏哲家博士（C.C. Wei）將共同說明公司的重點訊息。之後我們將開放電話線進行問答。

As usual, I'd like to -- I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which could cause the actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. Please refer to the safe harbor notice that appears in our press release.

依慣例，我要提醒各位，今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，該等陳述存在重大風險與不確定性，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述所述內容有重大差異。請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港聲明。

And now I would like to turn the call over to TSMC's CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, for the summary of operations and the current quarter guidance.

現在我把電話交給台積電財務長黃仁昭先生，請他進行營運摘要與本季展望指引。

Thank you, Jeff. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. My presentation will start with financial highlights for the third quarter of 2026. After that, I will provide the guidance for the fourth quarter of 2026.

謝謝Jeff。各位下午好。感謝各位今天的參與。我的簡報將先從2026年第三季財務重點開始。接著我會提供2026年第四季的展望指引。

Third quarter revenue increased 17.6% sequentially in NT, supported by strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies. In US dollar term, revenue increased 16.2% sequentially to $46.7 billion, above the high end of our third quarter guidance.

第三季以新台幣計，營收較前一季成長17.6%，主要受惠於先進製程技術的強勁需求。以美元計，營收較前一季成長16.2%至467億美元，高於我們第三季財測區間的上緣。

Gross margin decreased by 1.3 percentage points sequentially to 66.4%, primarily due to margin dilution from 2-nanometer ramp. Total operating expenses accounted for 7.8% of net revenue. Operating margin was 58.7%. Overall, our third quarter EPS reached TWD29.43, and ROE was 45.5%.

毛利率較前一季下滑1.3個百分點至66.4%，主要因2奈米量產爬坡帶來的毛利稀釋。營業費用占淨營收比重為7.8%。營業利益率為58.7%。整體而言，第三季每股盈餘達新台幣29.43元，股東權益報酬率（ROE）為45.5%。

Now let's move on to revenue by technology. 2-nanometer process technology contributed 8% of wafer revenue in the third quarter, while 3-nanometer, 5-nanometer and 7-nanometer accounted for 33%, 28% and 10%, respectively. Advanced technologies, defined as 7-nanometer and below, accounted for 79% of wafer revenue.

接著看依製程技術別的營收。第三季2奈米製程占晶圓營收8%；3奈米、5奈米與7奈米分別占33%、28%與10%。先進技術（定義為7奈米及以下）合計占晶圓營收79%。

Moving on to revenue contribution by platform. HPC increased 22% quarter-over-quarter to account for 68% of our third quarter revenue. Smartphone increased 10% to account for 21%. IoT increased 5% to account for 4%. Automotive increased 23% to account for 4%. While DCE declined 12% to account for 1%.

接著看依平台別的營收貢獻。HPC較前一季成長22%，占第三季營收68%。智慧型手機成長10%，占21%。物聯網（IoT）成長5%，占4%。車用成長23%，占4%。而DCE下滑12%，占1%。

Moving on to the balance sheet. We ended the third quarter with cash and marketable securities of TWD4 trillion or USD126 billion. On the liability side, current liabilities increased by TWD110 billion quarter-over-quarter, mainly due to the increase of TWD46 billion in current portions of bond payable and bank loans, and TWD26 billion in dividend payable.

接著看資產負債表。第三季期末現金及有價證券為新台幣4兆元（約1,260億美元）。在負債端，流動負債較前一季增加新台幣1,100億元，主要因應付公司債及銀行借款一年內到期部分增加新台幣460億元，以及應付股利增加新台幣260億元。

In terms of financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days decreased by 1 day to 28 days. Inventory days decreased by 5 days to 82 days, primarily due to the increase in wafer shipment. Regarding cash flow and CapEx, during the third quarter, we generated about TWD920 billion in cash from operations, spent TWD443 billion in CapEx, and distributed TWD156 billion for fourth quarter 2025 cash dividends.

就財務比率而言，應收帳款週轉天數減少1天至28天。存貨天數減少5天至82天，主要因晶圓出貨增加。就現金流與資本支出而言，第三季我們營運活動產生約新台幣9,200億元現金流入，資本支出為新台幣4,430億元，並發放新台幣1,560億元作為2025年第四季現金股利。

Overall, our cash balance increased TWD488 billion to TWD3.6 trillion at the end of the quarter. In US dollar terms, our third quarter capital expenditures totaled USD13.8 billion.

整體而言，我們的現金餘額在季末增加新台幣4,880億元至新台幣3.6兆元。以美元計，第三季資本支出合計為138億美元。

I have finished my financial summary. Now let's turn to our current quarter guidance. Based on the current business outlook, we expect our fourth quarter revenue to be between USD52.3 billion and USD54.3 billion, which represents a 14% sequential increase or a 58% year-over-year increase at the midpoint.

以上為我的財務摘要。接著說明本季展望指引。基於目前的業務展望，我們預期第四季營收將介於523億至543億美元之間；以中位數計，較前一季成長14%，較去年同期成長58%。

Based on the exchange rate assumption of USD1 to TWD31.8, gross margin is expected to be between 65% and 67%, operating margin between 56.5% and 58.5%. This concludes my financial presentation.

以匯率假設1美元兌新台幣31.8元計算，毛利率預期介於65%至67%，營業利益率介於56.5%至58.5%。我的財務簡報到此結束。

Now let me turn to our key messages. I will start by talking about our third quarter '26 and fourth quarter of '26 profitability. Compared to the second quarter, our third quarter gross margin decreased by 130 basis points sequentially to 66.4%, primarily due to the margin dilution from the initial ramp-up of our 2-nanometer technology.

接下來我來談公司的重點訊息。我將先談2026年第三季與2026年第四季的獲利能力。相較第二季，第三季毛利率季減130個基點至66.4%，主要因2奈米技術初期量產爬坡造成的毛利稀釋。

We have just guided our fourth quarter gross margin to decrease by 40 basis points to 66% at the midpoint, primarily due to the continued margin dilution from the steep ramp-up of our 2-nanometer technology, as well as dilution from overseas fabs. These impacts are expected to be partially offset by cost improvement efforts, including productivity gains and across-node capacity optimization.

我們剛剛給出的第四季毛利率指引，以中位數計將再下降40個基點至66%，主要因2奈米技術快速爬坡帶來的持續毛利稀釋，以及海外晶圓廠的稀釋影響。上述影響預期可由成本改善措施部分抵銷，包括生產力提升與跨製程節點的產能最佳化。

While the cost of overseas fabs remain higher, thanks to the company's overall larger scale and cost improvement efforts, we now expect the gross margin dilution from the ramp-up of our overseas fabs to be closer to 2% for the full year 2026.

雖然海外晶圓廠成本仍較高，但受惠於公司整體規模擴大與成本改善努力，我們目前預期2026年全年海外晶圓廠量產爬坡對毛利率的稀釋幅度將更接近2%。

As we put more effort to support the strong structural demand from our customers, more fabs will be ramping up in the US. Thus, we expect the dilution from our overseas fabs to widen to 3% to 4% in the next few years. We will leverage our increasing size in Arizona and work on our operations to improve the cost structure. We will also continue to work closely with our customers and suppliers to manage the impact.

隨著我們投入更多資源以支援客戶強勁的結構性需求，將有更多晶圓廠在美國進入量產爬坡。因此，我們預期未來幾年海外晶圓廠帶來的稀釋幅度將擴大至3%至4%。我們將運用在亞利桑那州日益擴大的規模，並透過營運改善來優化成本結構。我們也將持續與客戶及供應商緊密合作，以管理相關影響。

Overall, with our fundamental competitive advantages of manufacturing technology leadership and large-scale production base, we are confident that TSMC continues to be the most cost-efficient manufacturer in every region that we operate.

整體而言，憑藉我們在製造技術領先與大規模量產基地等根本競爭優勢，我們有信心台積電在各營運地區都將持續是成本效率最高的製造商。

Next, let me make some comments on our 2026 capital budget. At TSMC, a higher level of capital expenditures is always correlated with higher growth opportunities in the following years. Given the continued robust multiyear demand from our customers, including the emerging agentic AI market, we reiterate our full year 2026 capital budget to be between USD60 billion and USD64 billion.

接下來我對2026年資本預算做一些說明。在台積電，較高水準的資本支出一向與未來幾年的較高成長機會相互關聯。鑑於客戶持續強勁的多年期需求（包括新興的代理型AI市場），我們重申2026年全年資本預算維持在600億至640億美元。

We continue to expect our CapEx dollars investment from 2026 to 2028 and to be even more significantly higher than the past three years, as we continue to invest heavily to support our customers' growth.

我們仍預期2026年至2028年的資本支出金額將顯著高於過去三年，因為我們將持續大力投資以支援客戶的成長。

Additionally, while the tool supply is tight, we always collaborate closely with our tool suppliers well in advance to prepare the capacity, just like our customers collaborate with us well in advance to plan our capacity. Even as we invest for the future growth with this level of CapEx spending in the next few years, we remain committed to delivering profitable growth to our shareholders. We also remain committed to a sustainable and steadily increasing cash dividend per share on both an annual and quarterly basis.

此外，儘管設備供應仍然吃緊，我們一向會提前與設備供應商密切合作以準備產能，就如同客戶也會提前與我們合作規劃產能一樣。即使未來幾年以此資本支出水準投資以支援長期成長，我們仍致力於為股東帶來具獲利性的成長。我們也將持續致力於在年度與季度層級，提供可持續且穩健逐步提高的每股現金股利。

Now let me turn the microphone over to C. C.

現在讓我把麥克風交給 C. C.。

Thank you, Wendell. Good afternoon, everyone. First, let me start with our near-term demand outlook. We concluded our third quarter with a revenue of USD46.7 billion higher than our guidance in US dollar terms, driven by strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies.

謝謝你，Wendell。各位下午好。首先，讓我從我們近期的需求展望談起。我們第三季營收為 467 億美元，以美元計高於我們的財測指引，主要受惠於對我們領先製程技術的強勁需求。

Moving into fourth quarter 2026, we expect our business to be supported by continued strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies, including the steep ramp-up of our 2-nanometer technology.

展望 2026 年第四季，我們預期業務將持續受到對我們領先製程技術的強勁需求所支撐，其中包括 2 奈米技術的快速放量。

Looking ahead, we continue to observe consumer and price-sensitive end market segments are being challenged due to the impact of rising component prices and more economic uncertainties. As such, we are being prudent in our business planning going into 2027, while focusing on the fundamentals of our business to further strengthen our competitive position.

往前看，我們持續觀察到，受零組件價格上漲與更多經濟不確定性影響，消費性與價格敏感型終端市場區隔正面臨挑戰。因此，在邁入 2027 年之際，我們在業務規劃上將保持審慎，同時聚焦於業務基本面，以進一步強化我們的競爭地位。

Having said that, demand for our leading-edge technologies continues to be extremely robust, supported by our strong technology differentiation and broader customer base. Therefore, we now expect our full year 2026 revenue growth to be around 44% year-over-year in US dollar terms.

話雖如此，對我們領先技術的需求仍然極為強勁，受惠於我們強大的技術差異化與更廣泛的客戶基礎。因此，我們目前預期 2026 年全年營收（以美元計）年增約 44%。

Next, let me talk about the AI-related demand outlook. The AI market continues to be very strong. Recent developments are very positive to AI's long-term demand outlook. We observe increasing AI demand, fueled by the rising adoption of Agentic AI as we transition from chatbots to AI assistants. In addition, we are observing greater adoption of open-source AI models. This will drive greater efficiencies and help lower the barriers to future AI usage, and result in more and more demand for leading-edge silicon.

接下來，我談談 AI 相關需求展望。AI 市場持續非常強勁。近期發展對 AI 長期需求展望非常正面。我們觀察到 AI 需求增加，主要由 Agentic AI 的採用提升所帶動，因為我們正從聊天機器人轉向 AI 助理。此外，我們也看到開源 AI 模型的採用度提高。這將帶來更高效率並有助於降低未來 AI 使用門檻，進而帶動對領先製程矽晶片的需求持續增加。

Thus, AI-related demand is being supported by strong underlying demand for AI accelerators. In addition, the emergence of agentic AI CPUs and continued demand for networking chips are driving further silicon demand. Therefore, semiconductor will remain essential in the AI megatrend.

因此，AI 相關需求受到 AI 加速器強勁的底層需求所支撐。此外，Agentic AI CPU 的興起以及網路晶片需求持續，也正推動更多矽晶需求。因此，在 AI 這個超級趨勢中，半導體仍將是不可或缺的關鍵。

The value of semiconductors in the global supply chain is set to continue to increase in our view. This will create more value opportunities for our customers to capture, and more value opportunities for TSMC as well.

我們認為，半導體在全球供應鏈中的價值將持續提升。這將為我們的客戶創造更多可掌握的價值機會，也同樣為台積電帶來更多價值機會。

No matter which approach is taken, it will require use of the most advanced semiconductor process technologies. With our technology leadership, manufacturing excellence, global capacity expansion, and customer trust, we are well positioned to capture the multiyear structural AI-related demand. Therefore, all the AI players are working with TSMC.

無論採取哪一種方法，都需要使用最先進的半導體製程技術。憑藉我們的技術領先、製造卓越、全球產能擴張以及客戶信任，我們具備良好條件把握多年期、結構性的 AI 相關需求。因此，所有 AI 參與者都在與台積電合作。

Next, let me talk about TSMC's capacity expansion strategies. As of foundry, our first responsibility is to provide our customer with the best technologies and effective capacity support to unleash their innovations. To address the structured increase in the long-term semiconductor market demand profile, TSMC collaborate closely with our customers and our customers are customers to plan for our capacity.

接下來，我談談台積電的產能擴張策略。作為晶圓代工廠，我們的首要責任是為客戶提供最好的技術，以及有效的產能支援，以釋放他們的創新。為了因應長期半導體市場需求結構性上升的趨勢，台積電與客戶密切合作，而我們的客戶也與我們一同規劃產能。

In addition, we are now going one step further and sending our own teams of people to check on the data center build-out progress and power supply situation in the U.S. The feedback is so far so good, and the CSPs have been well prepared. Internally, TSMC employs a disciplined capacity planning system to assess the market demand, from both a top-down and bottom-up approach. This is a continuous and ongoing process.

此外，我們現在更進一步，派出自有團隊到美國實地了解資料中心建置進度與電力供應狀況。目前回饋相當正面，CSP（雲端服務供應商）也已準備就緒。在內部，台積電採用嚴謹的產能規劃系統，從自上而下與自下而上的方式評估市場需求。這是一個持續且不間斷的流程。

Given the fundamental complexity of leading-edge technologies and the design-in and lead time involved, we already have a very good idea of customers of multiyear product roadmap and production plans. Thus, we continue to hold strong conviction in the AI megatrend.

鑑於領先製程技術本身的高度複雜性，以及設計導入與前置時間等因素，我們已對客戶多年期的產品藍圖與生產計畫有非常清楚的掌握。因此，我們對 AI 超級趨勢仍然抱持強烈信心。

We are moving full speed ahead to increase our capacity to meet our assessed demand and stepping up our CapEx investment to support our customers' future growth. TSMC is expanding at an unprecedented pace with nearly 20 fabs worldwide in progress. We are building 13 leading edge and advanced packaging fabs in Taiwan over the next several years, and another five to six fabs overseas.

我們正全速推進擴充產能，以滿足我們評估的需求，並提高資本支出（CapEx）投資，以支持客戶未來成長。台積電正以空前的速度擴張，目前全球有近 20 座晶圓廠在建或推進中。未來幾年，我們將在台灣興建 13 座領先製程與先進封裝廠，並在海外再建置另外 5 到 6 座晶圓廠。

Our new node, N2, has already entered a high-volume manufacturing in the fourth quarter of 2025, with good yield. N2 is ramping successfully in multiple phases at both Hsinchu and Kaohsiung sites. We expect our N2 family technology’s annual capacity to more than double in 2027, supported by strong demand from both smartphone and HPC/AI applications.

我們的新節點 N2 已於 2025 年第四季進入高量產，且良率表現良好。N2 正在新竹與高雄兩地以多階段方式順利爬坡。在智慧型手機與 HPC/AI 應用的強勁需求支撐下，我們預期 N2 家族技術的年產能將在 2027 年較目前增加一倍以上。

We are also leveraging our manufacturing excellence to generate more N2 wafer output, further increasing our capacity support to customers. In addition, we have already begun preparing the capacity for our A14 technology. Risk production is well on track for 2027, and volume production will start in 2028. Thus, TSMC's semiconductor technologies and manufacturing will continue to play a pivotal role in supporting the global semiconductor industry, while unleashing our customers' innovations.

我們也運用製造卓越來提升 N2 的晶圓產出，進一步增加對客戶的產能支援。此外，我們已開始為 A14 技術準備產能。風險試產正按計畫推進，預計於 2027 年進行，量產將於 2028 年開始。因此，台積電的半導體技術與製造將持續在支援全球半導體產業方面扮演關鍵角色，同時釋放客戶的創新。

Now let me talk about TSMC's global N3 capacity expansion update. As we said before, historically, we do not add additional capacity to a node once it reaches its targeted capacity. However, based on our assessment, we are executing well on our global capacity plan to add 3 new fabs to support the robust multiyear pipeline or demand for 3-nanometer technologies.

現在我來更新台積電全球 N3 產能擴張的進度。如同我們先前所說，歷史上，一旦某個節點達到其目標產能，我們通常不會再為該節點新增額外產能。然而，基於我們的評估，我們正按全球產能規劃良好執行，新增 3 座新廠，以支援 3 奈米技術多年期、強勁的需求管線。

In Taiwan, volume production for our new 3-nanometer fab in Tainan Science Park is well on track to begin the first half of 2027. In addition, driven by the strong demand from our customers, we have decided to add on additional 3-nanometer fab in Tainan, volume production is scheduled for the first half of 2028.

在台灣，我們位於台南科學園區的新 3 奈米晶圓廠量產進度良好，預計於 2027 年上半年開始量產。此外，在客戶強勁需求帶動下，我們決定在台南再新增一座 3 奈米晶圓廠，量產時程規劃於 2028 年上半年。

In Arizona, we have completed the construction of our second fab and are in the process of tool move-in and installation. Volume production will begin in third quarter '27, slightly ahead of our previous schedule.

在亞利桑那州，我們已完成第二座晶圓廠的建設，目前正進行設備移入與安裝。量產將於 2027 年第三季開始，較我們先前的時程略為提前。

In Japan, we are progressing well to our plan to utilize 3-nanometer in our second fab and volume production is scheduled in 2028. In addition to all the new fabs, we continue to convert 5-nanometer tools to support 3-nanometer capacity in Tainan. We are also leveraging our manufacturing excellence to greater productivity across our fab in all locations to generate more wafer output.

在日本，我們正按計畫順利推進，將在第二座晶圓廠導入 3 奈米，並預計於 2028 年量產。除了所有新廠之外，我們也持續在台南將 5 奈米設備轉換以支援 3 奈米產能。我們同時運用製造卓越，在各地廠區提升生產力，以產出更多晶圓。

We are also focusing on capacity optimization across nodes, which includes flexible capacity support among N7, N5 and N3 nodes. Thus, we are using multiple levers to do everything we can, wherever we can, as fast as we can to maximize the support to our customers.

我們也聚焦於跨節點的產能最佳化，包括在 N7、N5 與 N3 節點之間提供彈性的產能支援。因此，我們正運用多種槓桿，盡我們所能、在任何可行之處、以最快速度，最大化對客戶的支援。

We have no intention to leave food on the table for others, and we want to capture every piece of business possible. This concludes our key message, and thank you for your attention.

我們無意把任何機會留給別人，我們希望盡可能拿下每一筆業務。以上為我們的重點訊息，感謝各位的聆聽。

Thank you, C.C. This concludes our prepared statements. (Event Instructions)

謝謝你，C.C. 以上為我們的準備稿說明。（活動說明）

Now let's begin the Q&A session. Operator, can we proceed with the first caller on the line, please?

現在我們開始問答環節。接線員，請問可以請第一位來電者上線嗎？

Yes. First one, Laura Chen, Citi.

可以。第一位是花旗的 Laura Chen。

I appreciate C.C. for sharing with us the TSMC capacity expansion strategy. So may I follow up more on that? Given the increasing aggressive AI semiconductor demand, how does TSMC now see the AI revenue CAGR growth? And how does TSMC reconcile customers’ capacity requirement with some of the potential concern on the data center power availability, and also maybe funding recently, and other critical components such as HBM, ABF advanced packaging. And also in the networking side, we see the tightness of laser as well. So if this constraint creates a mismatch between semiconductor supply and also actual AI development, how would TSMC adjust your capacity allocation and also the strategy to minimize the potential overbuilding in the supply chain. Thank you. That's my first question.

感謝 C.C. 與我們分享台積電的產能擴充策略。我可以就此再追問幾點嗎？在 AI 半導體需求日益積極成長的情況下，台積電目前如何看待 AI 營收的年複合成長率（CAGR）？另外，台積電如何在客戶的產能需求與一些潛在疑慮之間取得平衡，例如資料中心電力供應可用性、近期資金（融資）狀況，以及 HBM、ABF 先進封裝等其他關鍵零組件的供應。在網通端，我們也看到雷射供應同樣吃緊。若這些限制造成半導體供給與實際 AI 發展之間出現落差，台積電將如何調整產能配置與策略，以降低供應鏈可能過度擴建的風險？謝謝。這是我的第一個問題。

Okay. Laura has a very involved first question. I think she's asking how do we see the AI demand outlook? The AI demand, as C.C. said, seems to be very strong, but she's worried or concerned. How do we reconcile the strong demand of chips, AI chips versus risks related to whether it be power supply. I think also like different bottlenecks within the supply chain et cetera, how do we make our assessment of what is the appropriate CapEx and capacity we need to prepare. Is that correct, Laura? .

好的。Laura 的第一個問題涵蓋很多面向。我想她是在問我們如何看待 AI 需求展望？如同 C.C. 所說，AI 需求看起來非常強勁，但她也有一些擔憂或疑慮。我們如何在 AI 晶片強勁需求與風險之間取得平衡，例如電力供應等因素。我想也包括供應鏈內不同瓶頸等等，我們如何評估適當的資本支出（CapEx）與需要準備的產能。Laura，我理解得對嗎？

Yes. Thank you.

是的。謝謝。

That's a long, long question. Laura, let me share with you. We have a very sophisticated capacity planning process. And we also have a very disciplined on our consideration. And let me share with you, we put every possibility we can, talking about the CSPs, CapEx, data centers’ build-out, financial, power supply, and also other components’ supply, et cetera, into our consideration.

這是一個很長、很長的問題。Laura，我跟你分享一下。我們有一套非常成熟的產能規劃流程。而且在評估上也非常嚴謹自律。我也跟你分享，我們會把所有可能性都納入考量，包括雲端服務供應商（CSP）的資本支出、資料中心的建置擴張、財務狀況、電力供應，以及其他零組件的供應等等。

And so we make our own judgment -- and then based on our assessed demand, we still think the demand is higher than the supply, and we are working very hard to narrow the gap. Did I answer your question, Laura?

因此我們會做出自己的判斷——然後基於我們評估的需求，我們仍然認為需求高於供給，我們正非常努力縮小這個差距。Laura，我有回答到你的問題嗎？

Sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. So far from our -- like the comprehensive starting the supply chain, we are still quite positive on the demand in the longer term, right? So in that case, can you also give us like more color about that but any update on your AI CAGR growth? I recall previously, we're talking about like high 50%?

有的。謝謝。非常感謝。所以就我們目前——從供應鏈的全面性角度來看——我們對較長期的需求仍然相當正面，對嗎？在這樣的情況下，你們能否再多提供一些細節，例如你們對 AI CAGR 成長的最新看法？我記得之前談到的是 50% 後段（high 50%）左右？

We -- sorry, sorry.

我們——抱歉、抱歉。

Yes. So part of Laura's question is then based on our assessment, we had previously guided our AI CAGR -- AI accelerator CAGR, which is a narrow definition to grow mid- to high 50s percentage from 2024 to 2029. So Laura wants to know, do we have any update to that number today.

是的。Laura 的問題之一是：基於我們的評估，我們先前對 AI CAGR——更精確地說是 AI 加速器的 CAGR（較狹義的定義）——曾給出指引，預期 2024 到 2029 年將以 50% 中段到後段（mid- to high 50s）的百分比成長。所以 Laura 想知道，我們今天對這個數字是否有任何更新。

Laura, all I can say right now is the demand is very extremely robust, okay? And we did not see any sign of slowdown whether it's high 50% CAGR, it doesn't matter, it probably will be higher.

Laura，我現在能說的是需求非常、非常強勁，好嗎？而且我們沒有看到任何放緩的跡象；不管是 50% 後段的 CAGR 也好，其實不重要，可能會更高。

Sure. Okay. Thank you. Yes. And my second question is also about the -- given the very strong demand in the CapEx cycle, we see that definitely this round will be much higher than before.

了解。好的，謝謝。是的，我的第二個問題也與——在資本支出循環中需求非常強勁有關，我們看到這一輪的確會比之前高很多。

And TSMC also announced that earlier you will adopt High NA EUV around 2030. So should we think about that, that will be further improve the productivities thus will be more meaningful for further like accelerating revenue growth in the longer term. And also given that the CapEx intensity are also getting much higher how should we think about that the pricing power and also the long-term gross margin, the capital efficiency return.

台積電也先前宣布將在 2030 年左右導入 High NA EUV。那我們是否可以認為，這將進一步提升生產力，因此在更長期來看，對於加速營收成長會更有意義？另外，考量資本支出強度也在提高，我們應該如何看待定價能力，以及長期毛利率、資本效率報酬？

Okay. That's actually two questions, but okay, just very quickly. So Laura, part of it is on -- with the strong demand on our CapEx cycle, how do we view the adoption of High NA, which we said we will in 2030? And then her question is on profitability, long-term outlook.

好的。這其實是兩個問題，不過好，我很快整理一下。Laura 的一部分問題是——在我們資本支出循環需求強勁之下，我們如何看待 High NA 的導入（我們說會在 2030 年導入）？然後她的問題也關於獲利能力、長期展望。

Yes. Thank you.

是的，謝謝。

Okay. Let me answer that question. Yes. For the long-term productivity, we continue to improve it, and High NA definitely is a very good tool. And so far, I think our plan is to use it in 2030. Again, our CapEx will be much higher than today. And so you're talking about the gross margin, or the profitability can be increased or not?

好的。我來回答這個問題。是的，就長期生產力而言，我們會持續改善，而 High NA 的確是一個非常好的工具。到目前為止，我想我們的計畫是在 2030 年使用它。同樣地，我們的資本支出會比今天高很多。所以你是在問毛利率或獲利能力是否能提升，對嗎？

Let me say that there is no ceiling for TSMC's profitability, but a dramatic increase will not happen overnight either. So our philosophy or our strategy is always working with our customer, and we want to make them be successful, and then we can gain our value.

我想說，台積電的獲利能力沒有天花板，但大幅提升也不會一夕之間發生。因此我們的理念或策略一向是與客戶一起合作，我們希望客戶能成功，然後我們也能取得我們的價值。

Appreciate and congratulate the great result.

感謝並恭喜這麼好的成果。

Thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?

謝謝。接線員，請我們進行下一位提問者，好嗎？

Next one, Gokul Hariharan, JP Morgan.

下一位，JP Morgan 的 Gokul Hariharan。

My first question, again, on capacity addition. It looks like the shortage situation next year could be even more than 2026. Just wanted to hear C.C. your view on this.

我的第一個問題同樣是關於產能擴增。看起來明年的供給短缺情況可能會比 2026 年更嚴重。想聽聽 C.C. 你對此的看法。

And I think it's been quite some time since we have seen TSMC add capacity at more than 10% every year. If you look at our annual report, it would be like about 10 years that you have added capacity of more than 10%.

而且我認為我們已經很久沒有看到台積電每年增加超過 10% 的產能了。如果看我們的年報，大概已經有約 10 年沒有出現產能增加超過 10% 的情況。

Given this accelerated build-out, can we start getting wafer capacity growth closer to 10% or even higher than 10% in the next couple of years. Any comment on like what is your planned wafer capacity growth in the next couple of years? That's my first question.

在這樣加速擴建之下，未來幾年我們是否可能看到晶圓產能成長更接近 10%，甚至高於 10%？能否評論一下你們未來幾年的晶圓產能成長規劃？這是我的第一個問題。

Okay. So Gokul's first question is regarding the capacity addition and the demand. So his question first is the tightness in the wafer supply, do we think that will be even more or greater in 2027 than 2026? And then along with that, how do we see our overall capacity addition. Although you say 10%, I think every year, we disclose in the annual report, it's been about mid- to high single digit and sometimes even lower.

好的。Gokul 的第一個問題是關於產能擴增與需求。他首先問的是晶圓供給吃緊的情況，我們是否認為 2027 年會比 2026 年更緊？接著也問到我們整體的產能擴增如何看。雖然你提到 10%，但我想我們每年在年報揭露的數字大約是中到高個位數，有時甚至更低。

But anyways, regardless, those are the two questions. So first on just the demand outlook and then the supply, will next year be even more tight than this year?

不過無論如何，這就是兩個問題。第一是需求展望，第二是供給：明年會不會比今年更吃緊？

I just mentioned, the demand is extremely robust and getting higher and higher. Of course, we have our own judgment, and we look at every angle. As I said, we talk to customer, customers’ customer, and then we do our own one more step to check the data centers’ build-out.

我剛才提到，需求極為強勁，而且越來越高。當然，我們有自己的判斷，也會從各個角度來看。如我所說，我們會和客戶、以及客戶的客戶溝通，然後我們還會再往前一步，去檢視資料中心的建置擴張。

All the result we put into our judgment and our assessment, the result is the demand is very, very high. And so the gap between demand and supply are still quite big, and that's why we put all our strengths to increase the capacity, as I just mentioned. Whether it's bigger or is the gap become bigger or the gap become narrow, we are working very hard. I cannot answer this question right now because of my customer continue to increase their demand.

我們把所有結果納入判斷與評估，結論是需求非常、非常高。因此需求與供給之間的落差仍然相當大，這也是為什麼我們如我剛才所說，會動用所有力量來提升產能。至於落差會變大還是變小，我們正非常努力。我現在無法回答這個問題，因為我的客戶仍在持續提高他們的需求。

Okay. Gokul, I think it's a bit too early to talk about capacity increase percentage going forward. But let me just remind you that the increase every year, although the number is -- even though the number may be small, but the increase in advanced packaging -- sorry, advanced nodes are really the main driver for the capacity increase, okay?

好的。Gokul，我認為現在談未來產能提升的百分比還稍微太早。但我先提醒你，每年的增加幅度，雖然數字——即使數字可能不大，但先進封裝——抱歉，是先進製程節點的增加，才是真正帶動產能提升的主要驅動力，好嗎？

Fair enough. Okay. Secondly, could you -- you alluded to more aggressive overseas expansion plan in the U.S. especially. And I think recently, there's been a lot of discussion with potentially a new fab cluster in Texas as well as I think one of your customers also talked about discussions with TSMC as well.

了解。好。第二點，你剛才提到在海外，特別是在美國，會有更積極的擴張計畫。而我想最近也有很多討論，可能在德州建立新的晶圓廠聚落；另外我記得你們的一位客戶也提到，正在與台積電進行相關討論。

So C.C., could you talk a little bit about your overseas plan, like the more accelerated kind of capacity build out -- and also any engagement with SpaceX or Tesla given your customer did call you out last week in terms of some engagements you have, like what are the broad contours of this engagement likely to be? Is it similar to what you've done with some of the customers in Japan and ESMC as well?

所以 C.C.，你能否談談你們的海外計畫，例如更加速的產能建置——以及鑑於你們的客戶上週點名提到你們有一些接觸，包含與 SpaceX 或 Tesla 的互動，你能否說明這類合作的大致輪廓可能會是什麼？是否類似你們在日本與部分客戶、以及 ESMC 所做的模式？

Okay. Thank you, Gokul. So Gokul's second question, he notes that C.C. said, we're expanding at unprecedented pace, doing everything we can, as fast as we can to increase the capacity.

好的。謝謝你，Gokul。所以針對 Gokul 的第二個問題，他提到 C.C. 說我們正以空前的速度擴張，竭盡所能、以最快速度提升產能。

So this question is particularly to the U.S. what is the status or update. There's been reports that we are looking to expand in Texas. There's been reports that one of our customers, we are engaging in discussions. He wants to know what kind of framework or parameters of any cooperative maybe? Or any comment on either of those two things?

這個問題特別是針對美國，目前的狀態或最新進展是什麼。有報導指出我們正在評估在德州擴張。也有報導指出我們正與其中一位客戶進行討論。他想了解任何可能合作的架構或參數是什麼？或者對這兩件事是否有任何評論？

Okay. Gokul, we work very hard to expand our capacity in U.S. This is necessary because of all our customers, most of large customers in U.S. and they request that TSMC to increase the capacity. And also US government are very helpful. So that's a place we want to expand.

好的，Gokul，我們非常努力在美國擴充產能。這是必要的，因為我們的客戶中，多數大型客戶在美國，他們也要求台積電增加產能。而且美國政府也非常有協助。所以那是我們想要擴張的地方。

So recently, we did expand our capacity’s consideration to see outside Arizona where we can get another chance to expand our capacity. That Texas is one. So we send the teams to Texas to do all the evaluation. And we also talk to one of our customers who try to build a fab, Terafab, let me be more specific. And we discussed with them to see whether that we can be utilizing that actual capacity also.

所以最近，我們把產能擴張的考量範圍擴大到亞利桑那州以外，看看哪裡還有機會再擴充產能。德州是其中之一。因此我們派團隊到德州做各項評估。我們也與其中一位客戶洽談，他們嘗試要建一座晶圓廠——更具體地說是 Terafab。我們也與他們討論，看看是否也能利用那邊的實際產能。

So we're still in discussion. If we have any solid conclusion, we will share with you. But today, and that's it. Yes, from Arizona to Texas, yes.

所以我們仍在討論中。如果有任何明確結論，我們會與各位分享。但今天就先到這裡。是的，從亞利桑那到德州，是的。

Okay. But all of these are going to be TSMC-run fabs, right? I think you're not becoming part of the Terafab project or anything like that. Can you just help us understand what are the principles that you are using here? Is it a similar principle that you use for JASM or ESMC?

好的。但這些都會是由台積電營運的晶圓廠，對吧？我想你們並不是要成為 Terafab 專案的一部分或類似的安排。你能否協助我們理解你們在這裡採用的原則是什麼？是否與你們對 JASM 或 ESMC 採用的原則類似？

Okay. So Gokul's question is not in particular to the potential cooperation with this customer. Would it be TSMC's owned? What's the principles that we have if anything?

好的。所以 Gokul 的問題不特別是針對與這位客戶的潛在合作。會是由台積電持有嗎？如果有的話，我們的原則是什麼？

We are still in discussion. Let me say that. It's not either way, it would be possible, but the fab got to be run by TSMC.

我們仍在討論中。我先這麼說。不論是哪一種方式都有可能，但晶圓廠必須由台積電來營運。

Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?

接線員，我們可以請下一位與會者提問嗎？

Yes, next one, Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

好的，下一位是 TD Cowen 的 Krish Sankar。

I have two of them. The first one, C.C., some customers talk about a secondary wafer market where one customer passes their wafer allocation to another? Is this like a very small portion of the business? Is it customer specific? Or do you see that an emerging trend where customers whose demand is weak, pass some of their allocation to stronger customers?

我有兩個問題。第一個，C.C.，有些客戶談到所謂的次級晶圓市場，也就是某個客戶把他的晶圓配額轉給另一個客戶？這在業務中是否只占很小一部分？是否是特定客戶才會發生？或者你是否看到一個新興趨勢：需求較弱的客戶把部分配額轉給需求較強的客戶？

And then I had a quick follow-up.

然後我還有一個簡短的追問。

All right, Krish, thank you. So Krish's first question is asking some of our customers are talking about a resell or a secondary wafer market where they can pass their allocation on. So -- is this a very small portion of our business? Or is this more of a trend for us to do? And is this something that we allow our customers to do.

好的，Krish，謝謝。所以 Krish 的第一個問題是，有些客戶在談一種轉售或次級晶圓市場，他們可以把配額轉讓出去。所以——這是否只占我們業務中非常小的一部分？或者這對我們而言是否更像是一種趨勢？以及這是否是我們允許客戶這麼做的事情。

Well, let me answer that. To say whether this is a new strategy, new methodology, the answer is no. The principle of TSMC is we do not allow our customers to sublet or auction off the capacity. But in certain cases, customers can collaborate through mask licensing agreement, but this is not our common practice. And the amount is very, very small.

好，我來回答。要說這是不是一個新策略、新方法，答案是否定的。台積電的原則是：我們不允許客戶轉租或拍賣產能。但在某些情況下，客戶可以透過光罩授權協議來合作，不過這並不是我們的常態作法。而且量非常、非常小。

Krish, did I answer your question?

Krish，我有回答到你的問題嗎？

Yes. And then a quick follow-up. You did touch upon it the High NA agreement with ASML from 2030 onwards. I'm just curious to know historically TSMC was more ahead of the curve with the EUV adoption. It looks like by the time you adopt High NA EUV, be it 2030, 2031, but some of your competitors would already been using it by then. So do you see that as a disadvantage? Or you're not worried about competition getting ahead with High NA EUV?

有。然後一個簡短追問。你確實提到從 2030 年之後與 ASML 的 High NA 協議。我只是好奇，歷史上台積電在 EUV 導入上一直比較領先。看起來等到你們導入 High NA EUV（不論是 2030 或 2031），你們的一些競爭對手到那時可能已經在使用了。所以你是否認為這會是劣勢？或者你不擔心競爭對手在 High NA EUV 上領先？

Okay. So Krish’s second question is looking at High NA. He notes some of our competitors are both using already adopted or will adopt High NA earlier than TSMC. So his question, does this put us at a competitive disadvantage or risk compared to our competitors in terms of technology leadership.

好的。所以 Krish 的第二個問題是關於 High NA。他指出我們的一些競爭對手已經採用或將會比台積電更早採用 High NA。因此他的問題是：相較於競爭對手，這是否會讓我們在技術領先方面處於競爭劣勢或風險。

Krish, let me answer that. We always evaluate a new tool -- and if we want to put into the mass production, it got to be the best technology with a very reasonable cost. And most important is the best maturity, okay? So we say in 2030, we'll start to use it because we also think at the time, High NA will be mature. And we're also working very closely with ASML to establish a 12-inch photomask by 2031.

Krish，我來回答。我們一向會評估新設備——如果要導入量產，它必須是最好的技術且成本非常合理。而最重要的是成熟度要最好，好嗎？所以我們說 2030 年開始使用，是因為我們也認為到那個時候 High NA 會成熟。而且我們也正與 ASML 非常密切合作，目標在 2031 年建立 12 吋光罩。

And at that time, we think that the High NA's cost will be reasonable and for TSMC to make it into the mass production. And this is a very good tool. Let me emphasize that. And in the smaller geometry, it definitely has some advantages. Whether that our technology because we are using is later than our competitor, so a disadvantage to TSMC? No, because we have confidence that we are still the best company to offer the most advanced technology to our customers.

到那個時候，我們認為 High NA 的成本會合理，台積電也能把它導入量產。而這是一個非常好的工具。我想強調這一點。在更小的幾何尺寸上，它確實有一些優勢。至於我們採用時間比競爭對手晚，是否對台積電不利？不會，因為我們有信心，我們仍然是能為客戶提供最先進技術的最佳公司。

Krish, does that answer your question?

Krish，這樣有回答你的問題嗎？

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?

接線員，我們可以請下一位與會者提問嗎？

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan。

And also glad to hear a very strong AI semi-demand amid some recent stock market correction. So my first question is really about your leading edge capacity expansion strategy. As far as I know one of your IDM customer is spending capex very aggressively. So there are some concern about this may insource more than outsource to you, right? So first of all, I'm not sure how you're going to deal with this sort of business opportunity?

也很高興聽到在近期股市修正之際，AI 半導體需求依然非常強勁。所以我的第一個問題其實是關於你們先進製程產能擴充的策略。據我所知，你們的一家 IDM 客戶正在非常積極地投入資本支出。因此市場有些擔憂，他們可能會把更多產能改為自製而不是外包給你們，對吧？所以首先，我不太確定你們要如何因應這類商機？

And secondly, I remember, last time that C.C., you mentioned about A14 could be a bigger node than N2. May I know whether they assume big IDM company will outsource more CPU like server CPU at A14?

第二，我記得上次 C.C. 你提到 A14 可能會比 N2 更大的節點。我想請問，這是否是基於大型 IDM 公司會在 A14 外包更多 CPU（例如伺服器 CPU）的假設？

Okay, so Charlie's first question is around IDM competitor. He wants to know very specifically if we see this competitor moving to insource more. So his question is then our prior comment of A14 being a larger, bigger node than N2 has even been, does this include the server CPU from this IDM competitor?

好的，所以 Charlie 的第一個問題是關於 IDM 競爭對手。他想非常具體地了解，我們是否看到這個競爭對手轉向更多自製。因此他的問題是：我們先前提到 A14 會是比 N2 更大、規模更大的節點，這是否也包含來自這家 IDM 競爭對手的伺服器 CPU？

Well, Charlie, we treat every customer fairly. So whether it's IDM or is purely fabless, we treat them the same. But of course, we take into consideration of their internal capacity. So we calculate our support. We calculate our capacity build-up according to our own judgment. Actually, in our A14, we have seen more and more customers actually higher than the 2-nanometer activities so far. And we expect that the A14 will be a bigger node than our current N2 technologies.

Charlie，我們公平對待每一位客戶。不論是 IDM 或是純無晶圓廠（fabless），我們都一視同仁。但當然，我們也會把他們的內部產能納入考量。因此我們會評估我們的支援程度。我們會依照自己的判斷來規劃產能建置。其實在 A14 上，我們目前看到的客戶活動越來越多，甚至高於 2 奈米的活動量。我們預期 A14 會比我們目前的 N2 技術成為更大的節點。

I see. So it doesn't need to consider this IDM will also outsource more. We can still have A14 to be a bigger node than N2. Is that the right understanding?

了解。所以不需要把這家 IDM 也會外包更多納入考量，A14 仍然可以比 N2 更大。這樣理解正確嗎？

Well, again, Charlie wants to know very specifically this customer's outsourcing plan, which you probably may need to ask them, but yes.

嗯，再次強調，Charlie 想非常具體地了解這位客戶的外包計畫，這可能需要你去問他們，但，是的。

Well, Charlie, as I said, to be frank with you, I don't comment on a specific customer, but let me guarantee you that we take everything into consideration. Okay?

Charlie，如我所說，坦白講，我不評論特定客戶，但我可以向你保證，我們會把所有因素都納入考量。好嗎？

Okay. Do you have a second question?

好的。你有第二個問題嗎？

Yes, I do. Thanks. -- the second question is a kind of follow-up about your advanced packaging. From what we're seeing that the reticle size is getting much bigger. C.C. said last time or even two quarters ago about your response, SoW, 3.5D, so lot's an initiative is going on.

有的。謝謝。——第二個問題算是延伸追問你們的先進封裝。從我們觀察到的情況來看，光罩（reticle）尺寸正在變得更大。C.C. 上次甚至兩季前提到你們的因應方式，例如 SoW、3.5D，正在推動很多計畫。

So my question is that do you think those are kind of CoPoS, SoW, 3.5D can really catch customers’ very rapid development of their larger reticle size chip like 14 reticle?

所以我的問題是，你認為這些像 CoPoS、SoW、3.5D 的方案，真的能跟上客戶在更大光罩尺寸晶片（例如 14 倍光罩）的快速開發嗎？

And secondly, if some customer, they eventually choose to use Intel's EMIB-T and for some reason, cannot get to sufficient demand. Are you okay to bail out to support customers for the CoWoS version or capacity.

第二，如果有些客戶最後選擇使用 Intel 的 EMIB-T，但因某些原因無法取得足夠的供應量。你們是否願意出手支援，提供 CoWoS 版本或產能來協助客戶？

All right. So Charlie's second question is focused on the advanced packaging. I guess, Charlie, if I understand your question, summarize it, is, of course, customers are moving to larger and larger reticle size 14x. So he wants to know TSMC's roadmap and solutions and how competitive we can be against, I think he mentioned specifically our competitors, EMIB-T. So how do we view our solution? Is it as competitive as our competitor? That's the first part of his question.

好的。所以 Charlie 的第二個問題聚焦在先進封裝。我想，Charlie，如果我理解正確並加以總結的話，客戶正走向越來越大的光罩尺寸，例如 14 倍。因此他想了解台積電的路線圖與解決方案，以及我們相對於競爭對手（他特別提到 EMIB-T）能有多具競爭力。我們如何看待自己的方案？它是否和競爭對手一樣有競爭力？這是他問題的第一部分。

All right, Charlie. Actually, I still think that TSMC's advanced assembly or they say, packaging technology are very, very competitive. But the most important thing is that we help our customers' product can be introduced in the market smoothly. That's our number one priority. So we have to offer them the best technology with enough capacity.

好的，Charlie。其實我仍然認為台積電的先進組裝，或所謂的封裝技術，非常、非常有競爭力。但最重要的是，我們要幫助客戶的產品能夠順利導入市場。這是我們的第一優先。因此我們必須提供他們最好的技術，並且具備足夠的產能。

So far, let me share with you our today's situation -- we are in the real world production of 5x reticle size. I don't believe that anybody can do that today, except the TSMC. And the yield is excellent. So our customers are very satisfied with the result. And then we are working on the 9x reticle size and moving into the 14x reticle size.

到目前為止，讓我跟你分享我們今天的狀況——我們已經在 5 倍光罩尺寸上進入實際量產。我不相信今天除了台積電之外，還有人能做到。而且良率非常好。所以我們的客戶對結果非常滿意。接著我們正在開發 9 倍光罩尺寸，並朝 14 倍光罩尺寸邁進。

Of course, we are also working on the CoPoS part and to make sure that in the future, we can offer a reasonable cost reduction. But so far, the CoWoS is still the number one choice for our customers. As time goes by, yes, our competitors offer a very competitive solution. Still, I want to say that today's situation, we are the only one that makes sure that the advanced packaging is a 5x reticle size. And still, we are very competitive.

當然，我們也在推進 CoPoS 的部分，確保未來能提供合理的成本下降。但就目前而言，CoWoS 仍然是客戶的第一選擇。隨著時間推進，是的，我們的競爭對手也提供非常有競爭力的解決方案。不過我仍要說，就今天的情況來看，我們是唯一能確保先進封裝做到 5 倍光罩尺寸的公司。而且我們仍然非常有競爭力。

I want to emphasize that.

我想強調這一點。

And then Charlie's question, if the competitor cannot deliver on their solution, Charlie, I think you're saying we willing to be something like a backup plan?

然後 Charlie 的問題是，如果競爭對手無法交付他們的方案，Charlie，我想你的意思是，我們是否願意作為某種備援方案？

I try to avoid to answer it directly, but let me say that. Yes, we will be number one priority. I already indicate that TSMC's customers product can be introduced into the market smoothly. That's the number one priority, okay? And that gives you enough hint.

我盡量避免直接回答，但我這麼說吧。是的，我們會把它視為第一優先。我已經指出，讓台積電客戶的產品能夠順利導入市場，這是第一優先，好嗎？這應該已經給你足夠的提示。

Yes. Yes, indeed. Thanks for the answers. I hope that you don't give any food to others, including in the advanced packaging. Thank you.

是的，確實。謝謝你的回答。我希望你們不要把任何資源分給其他人，包括在先進封裝上。謝謝。

Thank you. All right, operator, let's move on to the next participant, please.

謝謝。好的，接線員，請讓我們進行下一位提問者。

Next one, Sunny Lin, UBS.

下一位，UBS 的 Sunny Lin。

After -- so my first question is to have a bit more color on how we should think about CapEx beyond 2026. Recall a few quarters ago, you mentioned if you are doing your job well, then you may be able to drive CapEx to grow a bit less than top line. But now obviously, the overall call activity may have further strengthened, and you also willing to support your clients with more substantial expansion. And we therefore wonder, at this point, when you look at maybe the coming two years, would you expect maybe CapEx to grow a bit faster, maybe in line with sales or even a bit faster just like for 2026?

接著——我的第一個問題是，希望你能多提供一些線索，讓我們理解 2026 年之後的資本支出（CapEx）該如何看待。回想幾季前，你提到如果你們把工作做好，CapEx 的成長可能可以略低於營收成長。但現在顯然整體客戶洽談活動可能進一步增強，而你們也願意以更大幅度的擴產來支援客戶。因此我們想問，在這個時間點，當你看未來兩年時，你是否預期 CapEx 會成長得更快一些，可能與營收成長一致，甚至像 2026 年那樣更快一點？

And then meanwhile, obviously, the tool price is also increasing, given a very tight supply. And therefore, going to 2027, will a higher tool price also be a driver for higher CapEx as well.

同時，顯然在供應非常吃緊的情況下，設備價格也在上升。因此展望 2027 年，更高的設備價格是否也會成為推升 CapEx 的因素？

Higher, sorry. What was the last part of your question, Sunny? Higher tool price, higher what the top?

更高，抱歉。Sunny，你問題的最後一部分是什麼？更高的設備價格，更高的什麼——營收嗎？

Well, so yeah, when we think about 2027 CapEx, should we also consider tool price inflation to be a meaningful variable for a lot higher CapEx compared with this year?

嗯，是的，當我們思考 2027 年的 CapEx 時，是否也應把設備價格通膨視為一個重要變數，導致 CapEx 相較今年高出很多？

Understood. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So Sunny's first question, -- it's about our CapEx beyond '26, really, she's asking '27 and '28, the next two years.

了解。好的，抱歉。好的，所以 Sunny 的第一個問題——是關於 2026 年之後的 CapEx，實際上她在問 2027 與 2028，也就是接下來兩年。

With the strong, extremely robust demand that C. C. indicated, the question is around our capital intensity in the next 2 years. How do we see the capital intensity trending revenue growth versus a CapEx growth - part one, and then also the impact of tool inflation on the CapEx outlook as well.

在 C. C. 所提到的強勁、極為旺盛的需求之下，問題在於我們未來兩年的資本密集度。我們如何看待資本密集度的趨勢：營收成長相對於資本支出（CapEx）成長——第一部分；以及設備（tool）通膨對資本支出展望的影響。

Okay. Sunny, this is Wendell. It's a bit too early to share the CapEx number beyond this year. But as we said in the prepared remarks, we have a very strong conviction in the AI megatrend. Therefore, our CapEx from 2026 to 2028 and is expected to be significantly higher than the past three years.

好的。Sunny，我是 Wendell。現在要分享今年以外的資本支出數字還稍嫌太早。但如同我們在事先準備的發言中所說，我們對 AI 的大趨勢（megatrend）有非常強的信念。因此，我們 2026 到 2028 年的資本支出預期將顯著高於過去三年。

And this is a step-up of our investment to support the customers' growth. We have no intention to leave any food on the table for others. The tool price inflation is real. The tool price, material, labor costs, et cetera. However, the majority of the CapEx is always related to the long-term demand. So that will be the composition going forward.

這是我們為了支援客戶成長而提高投資力度。我們無意把任何機會留給別人。設備價格通膨確實存在。設備價格、材料、人工成本等等。不過，資本支出的大部分一向都與長期需求相關。因此，未來的組成也會是如此。

And capital intensity-wise -- as we always said, if we do our job right, the increase in revenue will outpace the increase in CapEx, and that is still the case from what we are looking at.

至於資本密集度——如同我們一貫所說，只要我們把工作做好，營收的增加會快於資本支出的增加；就我們目前所看到的情況，仍然如此。

Thank you very much. If I may have a very quick follow-up on the CapEx side. Earlier, Wendell, you raised the margin dilution from overseas to I think 3% to 4% starting from 2027, given a faster overseas expansion. But for the US, you're still so far focused on Arizona. Does that imply for Arizona, the expansion for the second phase will happen very quickly -- or you're actually accelerating the expansion for the third phase or even the other phases as well as therefore the result for higher margin dilution for next year?

非常感謝。如果可以的話，我想就資本支出再快速追問一下。先前 Wendell 你提到，隨著海外擴張加速，從 2027 年開始海外帶來的毛利稀釋會提高到約 3% 到 4%。但在美國方面，你們目前仍主要聚焦在亞利桑那州。這是否意味著亞利桑那州第二期的擴建會非常快——或者你們其實也在加速第三期甚至其他期的擴建，因此導致明年毛利稀釋更高？

Okay. So Sunny's question is kind of about the puts and takes to next year's margin. She does note, as Wendell said in our prepared remarks that the overseas fabs will widen a bit to 3% to 4% in the next few years. So you wonder what's driving that wider dilution. C.C. did say we are pulling in the schedule for the second fab for 3-nanometer. Her question is, are we also pulling in third fab what's leading to this wider diluted? And maybe -- Yes.

好的。Sunny 的問題大概是在問明年毛利的各種拉抬與抵銷因素。她也注意到，如同 Wendell 在我們事先準備的發言中所說，海外晶圓廠在未來幾年會把稀釋幅度擴大到 3% 到 4%。所以她想知道是什麼在驅動這個更大的稀釋。C.C. 的確提到我們把第二座 3 奈米晶圓廠的時程往前拉。她的問題是：我們是否也把第三座晶圓廠往前拉，導致稀釋變得更大？也許——是的。

Okay. Sunny, as we mentioned, we are doing everything we can, wherever we can to increase our capacity to meet the strong demand from the customers. And we are also accelerating everywhere, including in the U.S. We did mention before that the latter part of the five-year period, the dilution -- margin dilution from overseas fab will be 3 to 4 percentage points, and that still remains the case. So it's 3 to 4 percentage points in the second part of the five-year period.

好的。Sunny，如同我們提到的，我們正盡一切所能、在任何可行之處提升產能，以滿足客戶強勁的需求。我們也在各地加速，包括在美國。我們之前提過，在五年期間的後半段，海外晶圓廠帶來的毛利稀釋會是 3 到 4 個百分點，這點仍然不變。所以是在五年期間的後半段，稀釋為 3 到 4 個百分點。

Thank you very much for the clarification. My second question, I like to follow up on the point.

非常感謝你的釐清。我的第二個問題，我想就這點再追問。

That was two questions, Sunny. That is already two questions. Can we -- sorry, but we probably just to accommodate as many as we can. We're going to move on. Operator, can we move to the next participant, please?

那已經是兩個問題了，Sunny。這已經是兩個問題。我們——抱歉，但我們可能需要讓更多人有機會提問。我們要往下進行。接線生，請讓我們進到下一位與會者，好嗎？

Next one, Haas Liu, Bank of America.

下一位，美國銀行的 Haas Liu。

Congrats on the great results. The first question would be on your view regarding the potential shift in AI demand mix. You mentioned in the prepared remarks that the AI accelerator chip set demand is proliferating into agentic AI demand, including CPUs and networking switches. We understand the overall AI investment is still pretty strong and even trending stronger across the board. But can we get more clarity that are you seeing your customers demand shifting toward more efficient compute solutions, especially as monetization gets more important? How should we think about the incremental opportunity for your manufacturing and packaging business?

恭喜取得很好的成果。第一個問題是關於你們對 AI 需求組合可能轉變的看法。你們在事先準備的發言中提到，AI 加速器晶片組的需求正在擴散到代理式 AI（agentic AI）的需求，包括 CPU 與網路交換器。我們理解整體 AI 投資仍然相當強勁，甚至全面走強。但能否更清楚說明：你們是否看到客戶需求正轉向更高效率的運算解決方案，特別是在變現（monetization）變得更重要之際？我們應該如何看待你們製造與封裝業務的增量機會？

So Haas’ first question is on the AI-related demand. His question is, are we seeing a shift in the AI-related demand more and more to CPU or networking switches and away from AI accelerators, or any type of comment.

所以 Haas 的第一個問題是關於 AI 相關需求。他的問題是：我們是否看到 AI 相關需求愈來愈轉向 CPU 或網路交換器、並遠離 AI 加速器，或是任何相關評論。

Well, all I can say is AI's demand is extremely robust, okay? Whether it comes from accelerator or is more from the CPU side. It's not for me to make a comment, although we did see the demand from agent AI CPU continue to increase. Yes, that is a trend today.

我能說的是，AI 的需求極為強勁，好嗎？不論是來自加速器，或是更多來自 CPU 端。這不是我適合去評論的，雖然我們確實看到代理式 AI 的 CPU 需求持續增加。是的，這是目前的趨勢。

And other than that, everything is very robust. And I want to emphasize again - in our judgment, we consider all the parameters, and the demand actually is still far above our capability today to supply. And we are working very hard to narrow the gap. That's all I can say.

除此之外，一切都非常強勁。我想再次強調——以我們的判斷，我們綜合考量所有參數後，需求實際上仍遠高於我們目前的供應能力。我們正非常努力縮小這個差距。我只能說到這裡。

Okay. That's very clear. And my second question is just regarding the yield learning curve going forward for your dual technology tracks strategy going forward. So historically, I think you have been ramping up the yield of a new node through producing the chipsets with smaller die size and simpler design to improve the learning curve of new node. But for the future node plans are supporting both conventional power delivery for the applications like mobile and consumer applications and super power rail technology for HPC and AI chipsets, would operating two process architectures at the same make the learning curve more challenging or increased manufacturing complexity -- and how should we think about the implication to your gross margins from the yield and also cost control perspective?

好的，這非常清楚。我的第二個問題是關於你們未來雙技術路線策略下的良率學習曲線。過去我認為你們通常會先以較小晶粒（die size）與較簡單設計的晶片組來量產新節點，以改善新節點的學習曲線。但未來節點規劃同時支援行動與消費性應用的傳統供電（conventional power delivery），以及用於 HPC 與 AI 晶片組的超級電源軌（super power rail）技術；在同一時間運行兩種製程架構，是否會讓學習曲線更具挑戰或提高製造複雜度——從良率與成本控制角度來看，對你們毛利率可能有何影響？

Okay. So Haas second question is -- his question is really about ramping a new node. -- the learning curve of yield and cost, and therefore, the implication to gross margin, really, I think, is what he's driving that. And his question is that in the past, new node is mostly ramped with smaller die size and simpler design. But -- so today, we have both the smartphone and also with the AI and HPC applications coming in, does that increase the complexity of the node process architecture, make the learning curve more challenging or difficult and therefore, the implication to the margin.

好的。Haas 的第二個問題是——他其實是在問新節點爬坡。——良率與成本的學習曲線，因此也就是對毛利率的影響，我想他主要想問的是這個。他的問題是，過去新節點多半是以較小晶粒與較簡單設計來爬坡。但——現在同時有智慧型手機以及 AI 與 HPC 應用導入，是否會提高節點製程架構的複雜度，使學習曲線更具挑戰或更困難，進而影響毛利。

Well, today’s a situation actually is a little bit different from previous years. Yes, we now have a very strong demand from smartphone and also AI/HPC applications. And so the smaller die size per se or the big die size in the accelerator, they happen at the same time. And this is to TSMC's advantage, let me say that. Because we are good.

嗯，今天的情況其實和以往有些不同。是的，我們現在同時有來自智慧型手機以及 AI/HPC 應用的非常強勁需求。因此，較小晶粒本身或是加速器中的大晶粒，是同時發生的。我要說，這對台積電是有利的。因為我們很擅長。

We have been prepared for this kind of thing. And our results are very excellent, and customers are very happy to work with us. And so the learning curve, yes, but we are doing a reasonable job. And so all the customers are very happy today.

我們已經為這種情況做好準備。我們的結果非常優異，客戶也非常樂於與我們合作。所以學習曲線方面，是的，但我們做得相當到位。因此今天所有客戶都非常滿意。

Okay. Thank you. Operator let's move on to the next participant, please.

好的，謝謝。接線生，請讓我們進到下一位與會者。

Arthur Lai, Macquarie.

Arthur Lai，麥格理（Macquarie）。

I have a question on the power as a gating factor. So I want to understand, have power grid constraint led you reduce your customer forecast in the history? Also, could this tighter and tighter power grid supply make your customer actually accelerating adoption of your Super Power Rail product for the better performance per watt?

我有一個關於電力作為限制因素（gating factor） 的問題。我想了解的是，過去電網供電限制是否曾導致你們下修對客戶需求的預測？另外，電網供應愈來愈吃緊，是否反而會讓客戶為了更佳的每瓦效能而加速採用你們的 Super Power Rail 產品？

Okay. So Arthur's first question is about the power supply or electricity supply. Is it a gating factor and have we seen that lead to a reduction in customers' forecast. On the other side or on the other hand, with the tighter power electricity supply, have we seen more customers' adoption of super power rail technologies?

好的。Arthur 的第一個問題是關於電力供應或用電供應。它是否是一個限制因素，以及我們是否看到這導致客戶下修其預測。另一方面，隨著電力供應愈趨緊縮，我們是否看到更多客戶採用 super power rail 技術？

Well, let me update that definitely power supply situation is one of the consideration factor that we are looking into. And that's why also we do one more step to double check whether the power supply situation in the US, and we have done all the study and so far, so good, let me we say that.

我來更新一下：電力供應狀況確實是我們正在考量的因素之一。也因此我們多做了一步，去複核美國的電力供應狀況；我們已完成所有研究，到目前為止都還不錯，我們可以這麼說。

And with this kind of a situation change our customers’ behavior and move more into the backside power rail, the answer is no. Whether you use the backside power, those kind of metallization scheme, is based on your need for your product, okay? So some of the accelerator might be using it. Some of the product like mobile phones, they don't use it. So it depends on customers' product. Did I answer the question?

至於這樣的情況是否會改變客戶行為、讓他們更多轉向背面供電（backside power rail），答案是否定的。是否採用背面供電、這類金屬化（metallization）方案，是基於你產品本身的需求，好嗎？所以有些加速器可能會用。有些產品例如手機則不會用。因此取決於客戶的產品。我有回答到問題嗎？

Yes. Thank you.

有的，謝謝。

Do you have a second question?

你有第二個問題嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Jeff. So just to recall, the previous discussion on the agentic AI demand on the CPU. So I wonder, according to our previous framework, demand forecast framework, the mid-to high 50s% growth, including the CPU or not? And if we heard our clients increase the CPU forecast significantly, when is the next time we refresh our AI demand growth numbers?

有的，謝謝 Jeff。回到先前關於 agentic AI 對 CPU 需求的討論。我想請問，依照我們先前的需求預測框架，中高 50% 的成長是否包含 CPU？如果我們聽到客戶大幅上修 CPU 預測，我們下一次會在什麼時候更新 AI 需求成長的數字？

Okay. So Arthur's, second question is on -- his question is really on our -- we already stated by anyway, our AI accelerator definition -- he wants to know with the emergence of agentic AI and CPU, -- does that AI accelerator definition include CPUs or not? And if when we will provide inclusion for him.

好的。Arthur 的第二個問題是——他的問題其實是關於我們——我們已經說過，無論如何，我們對 AI 加速器的定義——他想知道隨著 agentic AI 與 CPU 的出現——我們的 AI 加速器定義是否包含 CPU。以及我們何時會把它納入並提供給他。

Let me answer the question. It's not included in our AI demand’s calculation -- the reason is very simple because we cannot identify which CPU used in the conventional server CPU or AI server CPU. And also that it depends on our customers' application and their own allocation also. So no, so far today, we stick to our initial, very narrow definition on the AI's demand.

我來回答這個問題。它不包含在我們 AI 需求的計算中——原因很簡單，因為我們無法辨識哪些 CPU 用於傳統伺服器 CPU、哪些用於 AI 伺服器 CPU；而且也取決於客戶的應用以及他們自身的配置分配。所以不，目前為止我們仍維持最初對 AI 需求非常狹義的定義。

Understand. And so if we have seen a very strong CPU driven demand, when we will revise up the --

了解。那如果我們看到非常強勁、由 CPU 帶動的需求，我們什麼時候會上修——

Arthur, I think we already said very clearly, it's not part of the AI accelerator definition, it's a narrow definition. But it is certainly part of our business, okay?

Arthur，我想我們已經說得很清楚，它不屬於 AI 加速器的定義，那是一個狹義的定義。但它當然是我們業務的一部分，好嗎？

Okay. Operator, in the interest of time, can we take questions from the last participant on the line, please?

好的。接線員，為了節省時間，請讓我們先接最後一位在線上的提問者，好嗎？

Sahej Singh, Stifel Financial.

Sahej Singh，Stifel Financial。

Into 2027, you have N3 turning accretive and now that's crossed over, and N2 is still in its diluted ramp, and the overseas dilution is widening. On the offset side, there have been reports of significant price increases across your mature and advanced nodes. Could you provide some color into perhaps some of that conversation and where pricing does move, does it typically apply across the existing contracted book? Or is it mainly being applied to incremental capacity above what customers have already committed to?

展望 2027 年，N3 轉為增厚（accretive）且現在已經跨過轉折點，而 N2 仍處於稀釋性的爬坡期（dilutive ramp），海外稀釋也在擴大。在抵銷因素方面，市場上有報導指出你們在成熟與先進製程節點都有顯著的漲價。能否請你們就這些討論與價格走向提供一些說明？價格調整通常會適用於既有合約訂單（contracted book）嗎？還是主要適用於客戶在既有承諾之外新增的增量產能？

Yes. Okay. So -- the first question is talking about -- I guess you're asking about the potential puts and takes for next year. Or you're asking specifically on pricing, sorry -- our pricing, specifically on pricing. Okay. So it's a very specific question that there's reports that we are increasing the price.

是的。好的。所以——第一個問題是在談——我猜你是在問明年可能的利多與利空（puts and takes）。或者你是更具體在問定價，抱歉——我們的定價，特別是定價。好的。這是一個很具體的問題：有報導說我們正在調漲價格。

He wants to know does it apply across the existing contracted commitments from customers? Or is it mainly for the incremental capacity?

他想知道這是否會適用於客戶既有的合約承諾？或者主要是針對增量產能？

Well, we have discussed this kind of thing before that our pricing strategy is very strategic. It also depends on the market segment, depends on the location, and depends on the technology and something. Once we offer the flexibility of the physical location that in the US, it will be a little bit different from the one we produce in Taiwan. So no matter what, when we try to get our value to be recognized, and we will give our shareholders the maximum value of our technologies.

我們之前討論過這類事情：我們的定價策略是非常策略性的。也取決於市場區隔、取決於地點、取決於技術等等。一旦我們提供實體生產地點的彈性，例如在美國生產，會與我們在台灣生產的情況略有不同。所以無論如何，當我們試圖讓我們的價值被認可時，我們也會讓股東獲得我們技術所能帶來的最大價值。

Understood. For the second question, something you said in your prepared remarks, which stuck out to me was we will not be leaving food on the table. And earlier, I think it was maybe one or two weeks ago, there was the announcement via GlobalFoundries that they would be providing silicon interposers to TSMC. And so I would love some color into how are you thinking through these strategic decisions in terms of procuring from some of the specialty foundries versus providing in-house.

了解。第二個問題，你在事先準備的談話中有一句話讓我印象深刻：我們不會把利益留在桌上（we will not be leaving food on the table）。另外，我想大概在一到兩週前，GlobalFoundries 宣布他們將為台積電提供矽中介層（silicon interposers）。

Okay. So the second question is, again, he notes that recently, we had an announcement with GlobalFoundries on interposers. How do we view these partnerships and what is our approach strategically.

好的。第二個問題是，他提到我們最近與 GlobalFoundries 就中介層（interposers）有一項公告。我們如何看待這些合作夥伴關係，以及我們在策略上的做法是什麼。

Well, let me answer the question. We designed a deal with GlobalFoundries. And this is part of our overall strategy in the back-end supply. Actually, our number one priority is to help our customers to be successful in their market. We want them to be fully supported by all the supply, including the front end and back end. Definitely, we have a little bit shortage on the back end, and we'd like to work with our so-called partner with GlobalFoundries so that both TSMC and GlobalFoundries can support TSMC's customers for their product to be introduced with enough support and the capacity.

我來回答這個問題。我們與 GlobalFoundries 設計了一項合作案。這是我們後段（back-end）供應整體策略的一部分。其實，我們的第一優先是協助客戶在其市場上成功。我們希望他們在所有供應面都能獲得完整支援，包括前段與後段。確實，我們在後段方面有些供應吃緊，因此我們希望與我們所謂的合作夥伴 GlobalFoundries 合作，讓台積電與 GlobalFoundries 能一起支援台積電的客戶，使其產品導入時能獲得足夠的支援與產能。

Okay. Thank you for your questions. Thank you for all the participants. This does conclude our question-and-answer session. Before we conclude today's conference, please be advised that the replay of the conference will be accessible within 30 minutes from now. The transcript will become available 24 hours from now, and you can find both will be available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

好的，謝謝你的提問。也謝謝所有與會者。我們的問答環節到此結束。在結束今天的電話會議之前，提醒各位：會議重播將在 30 分鐘內提供。逐字稿將在 24 小時後提供，你們可以在台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 上找到兩者。

So again, thank you for joining us today. We hope everyone continues to stay well. Have a good autumn and we hope you will join us again next quarter. Thank you, and have a good day.

再次感謝各位今天的參與。希望大家都能持續保持健康。祝各位秋季愉快，也希望各位下個季度再度加入我們。謝謝，祝各位有美好的一天。