艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by.

美好的一天，感謝您的支持。

Welcome to the ASML 2024 third-quarter financial results conference call on October 15, 2024.

歡迎參加 2024 年 10 月 15 日舉行的 ASML 2024 年第三季財務業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to hand the conference call over to Mr. Skip Miller.

我現在想將電話會議交給斯基普·米勒先生。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, operator.

謝謝你，接線生。

Welcome, everyone.

歡迎大家。

This is Skip Miller, Vice President, Investor Relations at ASML.

我是斯基普·米勒 (Skip Miller)，ASML 投資者關係副總裁。

Joining me today on the call are ASML's CEO, Christophe Fouquet; and our CFO, Roger Dassen.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的是 ASML 執行長 Christophe Fouquet；和我們的財務長羅傑·達森。

The subject of today's call is ASML's 2024 third-quarter results.

今天電話會議的主題是 ASML 2024 年第三季業績。

The length of this call will be 60 minutes, and the questions will be taken in the order that they are received. [This call] is also being broadcast live over the internet at asml.com. A transcript of management's opening remarks and a replay of the call will be available on our website shortly following the conclusion of this call.

本次通話時間為 60 分鐘，問題將依照收到的順序回答。 [本次通話]也在 asml.com 上透過網路進行現場直播。本次電話會議結束後不久，我們的網站上將提供管理層開場白和電話會議重播的記錄。

Before we begin, I'd like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒聽眾，管理層在本次電話會議中發表的評論將包括聯邦證券法含義內的前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及重大風險和不確定性。

For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release and the presentation found on our website at asml.com and in ASML's annual report on Form 20-F and other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

對於風險因素的討論，我鼓勵您查看今天的新聞稿中包含的安全港聲明以及我們網站 asml.com 上的演示文稿以及 ASML 表格 20-F 的年度報告以及向證券公司提交的其他文件和交易委員會。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Christophe Fouquet for a brief introduction.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉給 Christophe Fouquet，讓他做個簡單的介紹。

Thank you, Skip.

謝謝你，斯基普。

Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our third-quarter 2024 results conference call.

歡迎大家，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第三季業績電話會議。

First, let me apologize for the confusion yesterday after the early public hearing of our press release due to a technical error.

首先，請允許我為昨天因技術錯誤而對我們的新聞稿進行早期公開聽證會後造成的混亂表示歉意。

Particularly given the serious nature of the key messages we wanted to deliver and discuss with you, this was very important.

特別是考慮到我們想要傳達和與您討論的關鍵訊息的嚴肅性，這一點非常重要。

Before we begin the Q&A session, Roger and I would like to provide an overview and some commentaries on the third quarter 2024, as well as provide some additional comments on the current business environments and on our future business outlook.

在我們開始問答環節之前，羅傑和我想對 2024 年第三季進行概述和一些評論，並對當前的業務環境和我們未來的業務前景提供一些額外的評論。

Roger?

羅傑？

Thank you, Christophe, and welcome, everyone.

謝謝克里斯托夫，歡迎大家。

I will first review the third quarter 2024 financial accomplishments and then provide guidance on the fourth quarter of 2024.

我將首先回顧 2024 年第三季的財務成就，然後提供 2024 年第四季的指導。

Let me start with our third quarter accomplishments.

讓我從我們第三季的成就開始。

Total net sales came in at EUR7.5 billion which is above the high end of our guidance driven by more DEEP UV system sales as well as higher installed base management sales.

由於 DEEP UV 系統銷售增加以及安裝基礎管理銷售增加，淨銷售總額達到 75 億歐元，高於我們指導的上限。

Net sales came in at EUR5.9 billion which is made up of EUR2.1 billion of EUV sales and EUR3.8 billion of non-EUV sales.

淨銷售額為 59 億歐元，其中 EUV 銷售額為 21 億歐元，非 EUV 銷售額為 38 億歐元。

Net system sales was driven by logic at 64%, with the remaining 36% coming from memory.

系統淨銷售額 64% 由邏輯驅​​動，其餘 36% 來自記憶體。

Installed Base Management sales for the quarter came in above guidance at EUR1.54 billion due to higher service and upgrade revenue.

由於服務和升級收入增加，本季已安裝基礎管理銷售額達到 15.4 億歐元，高於預期。

Gross margin for the quarter came in within guidance of 50.8%.

該季度的毛利率處於 50.8% 的指導範圍內。

On operating expenses, R&D expenses came in slightly below guidance at EUR1.06 billion while SG&A expenses came in as guided at EUR297 million.

在營運費用方面，研發費用略低於預期，為 10.6 億歐元，而銷售、一般管理費用則為 2.97 億歐元，略低於預期。

In Q3 was EUR2.1 billion representing 27.8% of total net sales and resulting in an EPS of EUR5.28.

第三季銷售額為 21 億歐元，佔總淨銷售額的 27.8%，每股收益為 5.28 歐元。

Turning to the balance sheet.

轉向資產負債表。

We ended the third quarter with cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments at a level of EUR5.0 billion similar to last quarter.

第三季末，我們的現金、現金等價物和短期投資達到 50 億歐元，與上季類似。

We ended Q3 with a free cash flow of EUR534 million which is somewhat improved relative to last quarter.

第三季結束時，我們的自由現金流為 5.34 億歐元，較上季有所改善。

However, as mentioned last quarter, there continued to be pressure on free cash flow.

然而，正如上季提到的，自由現金流繼續面臨壓力。

This is primarily due to a relatively lower level of order intake and therefore less down payments as well as higher inventory level.

這主要是由於訂單量相對較低，因此首付款較少以及庫存水平較高。

The higher inventory level is primarily attributable to EUV, both high NA and low NA driven by longer lead times in the build cycle as well as inventory in support of future ramp.

庫存水準較高主要歸因於 EUV，高 NA 和低 NA 都是由建造週期中較長的交貨時間以及支持未來產能提升的庫存推動的。

Moving to the order book.

轉到訂單簿。

Q3 net system bookings came in at EUR2.6 billion which is made up of EUR1.4 billion of EUV bookings and EUR1.2 billion of non-EUV bookings.

第三季系統淨預訂量為 26 億歐元，其中 EUV 預訂量為 14 億歐元，非 EUV 預訂量為 12 億歐元。

Net system bookings in the quarter was more or less balanced between memory at 54% and logic at 46% of bookings.

本季的淨系統預訂量或多或少處於平衡狀態，記憶體佔預訂量的 54%，邏輯預訂量佔預訂量的 46%。

The relatively low order intake is a reflection of the slow recovery in the traditional end markets as customers remain cautious in the current environment.

訂單量相對較低反映出傳統終端市場復甦緩慢，客戶在當前環境下仍保持謹慎態度。

At the end of Q3 2024, we finished with a backlog of over EUR36 billion.

截至 2024 年第三季末，我們的積壓訂單超過 360 億歐元。

With that, I would like to turn to our expectations for the fourth quarter of 2024.

接下來，我想談談我們對 2024 年第四季的預期。

We expect Q4 total net sales to be between EUR8.8 billion and EUR9.2 billion.

我們預計第四季總淨銷售額將在 88 億歐元至 92 億歐元之間。

We expect our Q4 installed base management sales to be around EUR1.9 billion.

我們預計第四季的安裝基礎管理銷售額約為 19 億歐元。

Gross margin for Q4 is expected to be between 49% and 50%.

第四季毛利率預計在 49% 至 50% 之間。

I would like to make a few comments on the Q4 guidance.

我想對第四季度的指導發表一些評論。

Net sales include the expected revenue recognition of two high-NA systems.

淨銷售額包括兩個高數值孔徑系統的預期收入確認。

Installed base management revenue is higher than Q3, primarily as a result of achieving specific EUV performance milestones and some EUV productivity upgrades.

安裝基礎管理收入高於第三季度，主要是由於實現了特定的 EUV 性能里程碑和一些 EUV 生產力升級。

Although Q4 revenue is higher than Q3, gross margin is expected to be slightly lower than Q3 as the positive impact from the higher upgrade revenue is more than offset by the dilutive gross margin impact from the expected revenue recognition of the two high-NA systems.

儘管第四季度收入高於第三季度，但毛利率預計將略低於第三季度，因為升級收入較高的正面影響被兩個高數值孔徑系統預期收入確認帶來的攤薄毛利率影響所抵消。

For the quarter, the dilutive effect thereof on the gross margin is approximately 3.5%.

就本季而言，其對毛利率的稀釋影響約為3.5%。

Based on the Q4 guidance, we expect 2024 revenue at around EUR28 billion with a gross margin of around 50.6%, which is slightly lower than 2023 as expected.

根據第四季指引，我們預期 2024 年營收約為 280 億歐元，毛利率約 50.6%，略低於 2023 年預期。

The expected R&D expenses for Q4 are around EUR1,090 million (sic - see press release, "EUR1,100 million") and SG&A is expected to be around EUR300 million.

第四季的預期研發費用約為 10.9 億歐元（原文如此，請參閱新聞稿「11 億歐元」），SG&A 預計約 3 億歐元。

Our estimated 2024 annualized effective tax rate is expected to be between 16% and 17%.

我們預計 2024 年年化有效稅率預計在 16% 至 17% 之間。

In Q3, ASML paid the first quarterly interim dividend over 2024 of EUR1.52 per ordinary share.

第三季度，ASML 支付了 2024 年第一季中期股息，每股普通股 1.52 歐元。

The second quarterly interim dividend over 2024 will be EUR1.52 per ordinary share and will be made payable on November 7, 2024.

2024年第二季中期股利將為每股普通股1.52歐元，將於2024年11月7日支付。

In Q3, 2024, no shares were purchased.

2024年第三季度，沒有買任何股票。

With that, I would like to turn the call back over to you, Christophe.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉回給你，克里斯托夫。

Thank you, Roger.

謝謝你，羅傑。

As Roger highlighted, it was a solid financial quarter, but there were also a number of market dynamics in the quarter.

正如羅傑所強調的那樣，這是一個穩健的財務季度，但該季度也出現了許多市場動態。

Starting with our technology, we continue to make good progress on both our new EUV products.

從我們的技術開始，我們在新的 EUV 產品上繼續取得良好進展。

On our low-NA technology, we continue to ramp the NXE:3800E system this quarter with EUV customers now rapidly shifting to this new model due to its higher performance, including over 37% improvement in throughput compared to the NXE:3600D.

在我們的低數值孔徑技術上，我們本季繼續提升NXE:3800E 系統，EUV 客戶現在由於其更高的性能而迅速轉向這款新型號，與NXE:3600D 相比，吞吐量提高了37% 以上。

We have now demonstrated the full 220 wafer per hour throughput at the new record overlay in our factory, and we are on-track to deliver full specification system with new system shipment and upgrades from the beginning of next year.

現在，我們已經在工廠中展示了每小時 220 片晶圓的吞吐量，創下了新的記錄，並且我們預計從明年初開始通過新系統發貨和升級提供全規格系統。

As customer transition to the NXE:3800E, the majority of shipments in Q4 are the NXE:3800E systems.

隨著客戶過渡到 NXE:3800E，第四季的大部分出貨量都是 NXE:3800E 系統。

Regarding high NA, the two shipped system are now exposing wafers at our customer and we expect to recognize the revenue from the system by the end of the year.

關於高NA，兩個已發貨的系統現在正在我們的客戶處暴露晶圓，我們預計到今年年底可以確認該系統的收入。

The first system is in the process of being shipped to a second major customer.

第一個系統正在運送給第二個主要客戶。

Momentum continues to grow with around 10,000 wafers now exposed from multiple logic and memory customers using the high-NA system in the joint ASML-imec high-NA lab and the systems in the field.

勢頭持續增長，目前多個邏輯和記憶體客戶使用 ASML-imec 聯合高 NA 實驗室中的高 NA 系統和現場系統展示了約 10,000 個晶圓。

At the recent lithography conference, we published new high-NA data showing major performance benefits in imaging overlay and contrast.

在最近的光刻會議上，我們發布了新的高數值孔徑數據，顯示了成像重疊和對比度的主要性能優勢。

Those benefits also indicate a significant-cost reduction opportunities for both logic and DRAM customers.

這些優勢也顯示邏輯和 DRAM 客戶有顯著降低成本的機會。

As a reminder of the value high NA provides, we have demonstrated the system ability to print features at resolution of 8 nanometer, compared to a low-NA system, this represent an improvement to nearly 3x in transistor density per exposure.

為了提醒人們高數值孔徑所提供的價值，我們已經證明了該系統能夠以 8 奈米的分辨率列印特徵，與低數值孔徑系統相比，這意味著每次曝光的晶體管密度提高了近 3 倍。

All-in-all, we have seen continued momentum EUV technology and we are progressing well relative to customer expectations.

總而言之，我們看到了 EUV 技術的持續發展勢頭，並且相對於客戶的期望，我們進展順利。

With regards to market condition, while we continue to view AI as a key driver of the industry recovery with potential upside, we see other segments recovering more slowly than anticipated.

就市場狀況而言，雖然我們繼續將人工智慧視為行業復甦的關鍵驅動力並具有潛在的上升空間，但我們認為其他細分市場的復甦速度比預期慢。

The recovery will extend well into 2025, which is leading to customer cautiousness and some push outs in their investment.

復甦將持續到 2025 年，這將導致客戶變得謹慎並推遲投資。

In logic, the slow recovery of end markets such as mobile and PC, together with specific competitive foundry dynamics, as resulted in a slower ramp of new nodes at certain customer who are as a results pushing out some of their fabs and changing their litho demand timing.

從邏輯上講，移動和PC 等終端市場的緩慢復甦，加上特定的競爭性代工動態，導致某些客戶的新節點增長速度放緩，從而導致他們擠出了一些晶圓廠並改變了他們的光刻需求定時。

In memory, the slower market recovery is also resulting in limited capacity addition with the focus still on technology transition, supporting the high bandwidth memory and DDR5 AI related demand.

在記憶體方面，市場復甦較慢也導致產能增加有限，重點仍是技術轉型，以支援高頻寬記憶體和DDR5 AI相關需求。

And finally, we expect the China business to go back to a more normalized percentage of our business in line percentage of China business in our backlog.

最後，我們預期中國業務在積壓訂單中佔中國業務的比例將恢復到更正常的水平。

In summary, while the long-term trends are still very strong and positive, the developments over the past few months combined with customer specific circumstances has led to a reduced growth curve in 2025 and an over overall reduction of our lithography demand.

總而言之，雖然長期趨勢仍然非常強勁和積極，但過去幾個月的發展加上客戶的具體情況導致 2025 年成長曲線縮小，並且我們的光刻需求整體下降。

Due to this dynamics over the last quarter, we felt it'll be appropriate to make some comments on 2025 at this time versus waiting until our Investor Day next month.

鑑於上個季度的這種動態，我們認為此時對 2025 年發表一些評論是合適的，而不是等到下個月的投資者日。

With that, I will turn it back over to Roger.

這樣，我會將其轉回給羅傑。

Thanks, Christophe.

謝謝，克里斯托夫。

And as we discussed in our Investor Day in 2022, we provided market scenarios for 2025 of between EUR30 billion and EUR40 billion.

正如我們在 2022 年投資者日討論的那樣，我們提供了 2025 年 300 億至 400 億歐元的市場情景。

With a gross margin of between 54% to 56%.

毛利率在54%至56%之間。

Based on the recent market dynamics that Christophe just described, we now see 2025 revenue moving through the lower half of the range, so between EUR30 billion and EUR35 billion.

根據 Christophe 剛剛描述的近期市場動態，我們現在預計 2025 年的營收將穿過該區間的下半部分，即 300 億歐元至 350 億歐元之間。

To the logic stand, this is driven by a significant reduction in our expected low-NA shipments in '25 fewer than 50.

從邏輯上看，這是由於我們預期的 25 年低數值孔徑出貨量大幅減少，少於 50 個。

We also now expect our China sales to be around 20% of our total revenue next year, trending back towards our historical China percentage and in-line with its share of the backlog.

我們現在也預計明年我們的中國銷售額將占我們總收入的 20% 左右，趨勢將回歸到我們歷史上的中國百分比，並與其在積壓訂單中所佔的份額保持一致。

With regard to gross margin, one of the key drivers of the expected improvement was low NA driven by both an increase in the number of systems as well as a move to the higher margin 3800E system.

就毛利率而言，預期改善的關鍵驅動因素之一是由於系統數量的增加以及轉向利潤率更高的 3800E 系統而導致的低 NA。

While the improvement in gross margin for the 3800E has been achieved, the large reduction in EUV unit numbers for next year is significantly margin diluted in comparison to earlier expectations.

雖然3800E的毛利率已經實現了改善，但明年EUV單位數量的大幅減少使得利潤率與先前的預期相比大幅攤薄。

Also, the reduction of our China sales, which typically contain a high percentage of immersion sales, is dilutive to our gross margin.

此外，我們在中國的銷售（通常包含很高比例的沉浸式銷售）的減少也稀釋了我們的毛利率。

Therefore, based on the current outlook of lower and the less favorable mix in comparison to the 2022 Investor Day, we now expect a gross margin of between 51% and 53% in 2025.

因此，基於目前與 2022 年投資者日相比較低和不利的組合前景，我們現在預計 2025 年的毛利率將在 51% 至 53% 之間。

In comparison to 2024, the 2025 gross margin is expected to benefit from the higher gross margin on the 3800E, gradual margin improvement on high NA and the improvement in EUV service margin, but we'll also see a dilutive margin effect of recognizing more high-NA tools in revenue.

與2024 年相比，2025 年的毛利率預計將受益於3800E 更高的毛利率、高NA 的毛利率逐步改善以及EUV 服務利潤率的改善，但我們也將看到認可更高毛利率的稀釋利潤效應-NA 所得工具。

On operational expenses for 2025, we expect total OpEx to be at the upper end of the bandwidth of EUR5.6 billion to EUR6.1 billion provided during Investor Day in 2022.

就 2025 年的營運支出而言，我們預計總營運支出將處於 2022 年投資者日期間提供的 56 億歐元至 61 億歐元區間的上限。

We will continue with our R&D roadmap and have been able to absorb the significant wage inflation effect since 2022 within the bandwidth.

我們將繼續我們的研發路線圖，並能夠在頻寬範圍內吸收 2022 年以來顯著的薪資通膨影響。

With that, I once again hand it over to Christophe.

說完，我再次把它交給了克利斯朵夫。

Thank you, Roger.

謝謝你，羅傑。

As we look out longer-term, consistent with what we have previously stated, the secular growth drivers in the semiconductor end markets are still very much intact.

從長遠來看，與我們之前所說的一致，半導體終端市場的長期成長動力仍然完好無損。

AI, energy transition, electrification, among other applications, continue to provide a very strong and very positive perspective to our industry and ASML business.

人工智慧、能源轉型、電氣化以及其他應用繼續為我們的行業和 ASML 業務提供非常強大和非常積極的前景。

The expanding application space, along with increasing lithography needs on future technology nodes, drive demands for both advanced and mainstream nodes.

不斷擴大的應用空間，以及未來技術節點上不斷增長的光刻需求，推動了對先進和主流節點的需求。

In line with most of our industry peers, we continue to see AI as an upside and continue to watch carefully how this will affect us on the short and in the long-term.

與大多數行業同行一樣，我們繼續將人工智慧視為一個優勢，並繼續仔細觀察這將如何影響我們的短期和長期。

Despite some of the push outs we have discussed, we continue to prepare for a number of new fabs that are being built across the globe to address the future demand and needs of the industry.

儘管我們已經討論了一些推出計劃，但我們仍在繼續為全球各地正在建造的許多新晶圓廠做準備，以滿足行業未來的需求。

Those fabs are spread geographically, our strategy for our customer and our schedule to take our system.

這些晶圓廠分佈在不同的地理位置，我們對客戶的策略以及我們採用系統的時間表。

We will therefore continue to build capacity in order to respond to the demand increase that we expect throughout the remainder of this decade.

因此，我們將繼續建立能力，以應對我們預計在本十年剩餘時間的需求成長。

We will provide a more detailed assessment together with the scenarios of 2,030 at our Investor Day on November 14, 2024.

我們將在 2024 年 11 月 14 日的投資者日上提供更詳細的評估以及 2,030 的情境。

We look forward to seeing you there.

我們期待在那裡見到您。

With that, we will be happy to take your questions.

這樣，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Thank you, Roger and Christophe.

謝謝你們，羅傑和克里斯托夫。

The operator will instruct you momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session.

接線生將立即指導您了解問答環節的協議。

Beforehand, I'd like to ask that you kindly limit yourself to one question with one short follow-up if necessary.

在此之前，我想請您將自己限制在一個問題上，如有必要，請進行簡短的跟進。

This will allow us to get to as many callers as possible.

這將使我們能夠接觸到盡可能多的來電者。

Now, operator, could we have your final instructions and the first question, please?

現在，接線員，請問您能得到最後的指示和第一個問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Joe Quatrochi, Wells Fargo.

（操作員說明）Joe Quatrochi，富國銀行。

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks for taking the question.

感謝您提出問題。

I wanted to kind of understand the change that you're talking about in terms of the China demand.

我想了解你所說的中國需求的變化。

What are you seeing there that is causing that normalization?

您認為是什麼導致了這種正常化？

And then if we were to try to think about what in your 2025 guide you're implying for non-China DUV revenue, it seems like you're embedding a pretty significant increase year-over-year.

然後，如果我們嘗試思考您在 2025 年指南中對非中國 DUV 收入的暗示，您似乎會發現同比相當顯著的增長。

What's the underpinning driver of that?

其根本驅動力是什麼？

Thanks, Joe. So when it comes to China, I think it's a combination of two things.

謝謝，喬。所以說到中國，我認為這是兩件事的結合。

As we've said before, in the past two years, we've been very much eating into our backlog for China, and that backlog has come to that level simply because in the years before that, we were -- we had a fairly low auto fill rate for China.

正如我們之前所說，在過去的兩年裡，我們一直在努力解決中國的積壓訂單，而積壓訂單已經達到了這個水平，僅僅是因為在那之前的幾年裡，我們——我們有相當多的訂單中國的汽車填充率較低。

So as a result of that backlog build-up in the past because of the global market circumstances, we were able to deliver on that backlog.

因此，由於過去因全球市場環境而積壓的積壓，我們得以交付積壓的積壓。

So that's why the China sales in 2023 and 2024 have been so high.

所以這就是為什麼2023年和2024年中國銷量這麼高的原因。

So as a result, we indicated before that we expect at a certain point in time for that to normalize, and that is, I think, what you now see in the numbers.

因此，我們之前表示，我們預計在某個時間點，這種情況會正常化，我認為，這就是你現在在數字中看到的情況。

So that's one driver.

這就是一名司機。

Secondly, I think we all read newspapers, right?

其次，我想我們都會讀報紙，對吧？

We all see that there is speculation around export controls.

我們都看到圍繞出口管制的猜測。

And also that is a driver for us to take a more cautious view on the China sales.

這也是我們對中國銷售採取更謹慎態度的動力。

So with that combined, we stated that we believe the China sales for next year are going to go to, let's say, 20% of our expected sales level for next year.

綜上所述，我們表示，我們相信明年的中國銷售額將達到我們明年預期銷售額水準的 20%。

When it comes to DEEP UV and the non-China part of the DEEP UV business, if you do the math a little bit, our expectation is that the DEEP UV business next year will be lower than it is this year.

當談到深紫外線和深紫外線業務的非中國部分時，如果你稍微算一下，我們的預期是明年的深紫外線業務將低於今年。

So we believe DEEP UV will go down a bit.

所以我們相信深紫外線會有所下降。

But you're right.

但你是對的。

I mean, with the China business going down as we've indicated that means that the non-China part of the DEEP UV business will go up.

我的意思是，正如我們所指出的，隨著中國業務的下降，這意味著深紫外線業務的非中國部分將會上升。

And the main reason is that if you look at the more advanced nodes and if you do the math on the growth that you might anticipate in the EUV business for next year, you will see that there is quite some growth there.

主要原因是，如果你看看更先進的節點，如果你對明年 EUV 業務的成長進行數學計算，你會發現那裡有相當大的成長。

In the combination of low NA and high NA, you will see quite some growth there.

在低 NA 和高 NA 的組合中，您會看到相當多的成長。

I think what you're going to see is that the non-China part of the DEEP UV business is sort of following that trend.

我認為您將看到的是，深紫外線業務的非中國部分正在追隨這一趨勢。

So the attach rate, if you want to call it like that, of the DEEP UV business to the EUV business will be similar.

因此，如果你想這麼稱呼的話，DEEP UV 業務與 EUV 業務的附加率將是相似的。

So the growth rate you will see in EUV, you will sort of see back also in the growth rates for the non-China part of the DEEP UV business.

因此，您將在 EUV 中看到的成長率，您也會在深紫外線業務的非中國部分的成長率中看到。

Got it.

知道了。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And then as a follow-up, I wanted to try to understand a little bit better the 2025 gross margin guidance and the commentary.

然後，作為後續行動，我想嘗試更好地理解 2025 年毛利率指導和評論。

I can certainly appreciate the lower mix of low NA, but for total revenue, it would still be kind of within the low end of the target range.

我當然可以欣賞低NA的較低組合，但就總收入而言，它仍然在目標範圍的低端之內。

I think it would still imply that your immersion shipments maybe being down year-over-year, it sounds like still better you're thinking about from the target model, which I think would be a positive for in terms of offsetting just some of the mix.

我認為這仍然意味著你的沉浸式出貨量可能會逐年下降，聽起來你從目標模型中考慮的更好，我認為這對於抵消一些混合。

So maybe can you help us unpack that a little bit of just how do we think about like the immersion relative to what you were thinking about at the Analyst Day in 2022 and that mix effect?

那麼，也許您可以幫助我們解釋一下我們是如何思考相對於您在 2022 年分析師日所思考的沉浸感以及混合效應的嗎？

So Joe, immersion in comparison to the Investor Day in 2022, I think there you will see that immersion is not dramatically different from the expectations that we had in 2022.

所以喬，沉浸感與 2022 年投資者日相比，我想你會發現沉浸感與我們 2022 年的預期並沒有太大不同。

I think the immersion expectation has gone up a bit, but with everything I just told you, including or our view on chart, I think immersion has come down a bit, and all-in-all, I think our immersion view is not dramatically different from what we held out at the Investor Day.

我認為沉浸感期望有所上升，但根據我剛才告訴你的一切，包括我們對圖表的看法，我認為沉浸感有所下降，總而言之，我認為我們的沉浸感觀點並不顯著與我們在投資者日所舉行的不同。

The line, if you simply contrast the gross margin that we have that we now articulate for 2025 and compare that to the gross margin that we articulated three years ago, it really is to a very large extent, it is driven by EUV.

總而言之，如果你簡單地將我們現在提出的 2025 年毛利率與我們三年前提出的毛利率進行比較，你會發現它確實在很大程度上是由 EUV 驅動的。

And there are two elements in EUV that do this.

EUV 中有兩個元素可以做到這一點。

One element is volume, so the volume that we have on EUV now in our model with 50 is substantially below the numbers that you saw in the Investor Day of November ‘22, but there is also a mixed effect in there, because in 2022 we were looking at the high end of the mix, i.e. 3800 was going to dominate.

其中一個因素是數量，因此我們模型中 EUV 的數量現在為 50，遠低於您在 11 月 22 日投資者日看到的數字，但其中也存在混合效應，因為2022 年，我們著眼於高端產品，即3800 將佔據主導地位。

The fact we were expecting a few 4000 in there as a result of the dynamics in the market, you actually, quite a few, 3600 in 2025 as well.

事實上，由於市場的動態，我們預期會有 4,000 人，事實上，到 2025 年也會有 3,600 人。

The 3800 will dominate, but it will clearly be 3600 in there as well.

3800 將佔據主導地位，但顯然 3600 也將佔據主導地位。

So there is also an ASP and gross margin mix effect in there.

因此，其中還存在平均售價和毛利率的混合效應。

It's that combination of particularly a significantly lower number of EUV units, and also the mix effect in the EUV that is primarily driving down the gross margin expectation in comparison to what we were looking at in November of the ‘22.

與我們 2022 年 11 月的預期相比，EUV 單位數量顯著減少以及 EUV 的混合效應是導致毛利率預期下降的主要原因。

And the unit effect is by far the biggest effect in that explanation.

單位效應是該解釋中迄今為止最大的效應。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Didier Scemama, Bank of America.

迪迪埃·斯塞馬瑪，美國銀行。

Roger or Christophe, I don't know, when you look at the cut you have made to EUV shipments for next year, call it 20 to 25 low-NA systems, how much of that do you think spills over to ‘26?

Roger 或 Christophe，我不知道，當您查看明年 EUV 出貨量的削減（稱為 20 至 25 個低 NA 系統）時，您認為其中有多少會溢出到 26 ？

And I've got a follow-up.

我還有後續行動。

Thank you.

謝謝。

I think, it's a difficult question as you can imagine, because I think the feedback we have got from our customer in the last few months was about pushing out those tools.

我認為，這是一個很難想像的問題，因為我認為過去幾個月我們從客戶那裡得到的回饋是關於推出這些工具的。

I think, you could say mathematically, this move into 2026, I think that's the simple way to look at that.

我認為，你可以從數學上說，進入 2026 年，我認為這是看待這個問題的簡單方法。

I think, that we have to, of course, over time reconfirm the dynamic of the market, I will say for the second half of ‘25 and ‘26.

我認為，當然，隨著時間的推移，我們必須重新確認市場的動態，我會說在 25 月和 26 月下半年。

So if you think about mathematically, we have talked about push out, because we really see our customer delaying basically their fabs.

因此，如果你從數學角度考慮，我們已經討論了推出，因為我們確實看到我們的客戶基本上推遲了他們的晶圓廠。

We don't see a customer basically changing their mind on those fabs.

我們沒有看到客戶基本上改變他們對這些晶圓廠的想法。

So that's why we refer to push out.

這就是為什麼我們提到推出。

Of course, ‘26 is an opportunity to see those tool back, but like I say, there's still a long way until 2026 and we will continue to watch the market dynamic there.

當然，26 年前是看到這些工具回歸的機會，但正如我所說，距離 2026 年還有很長的路要走，我們將繼續關注那裡的市場動態。

Excellent.

出色的。

A follow-up to that would be how much of the push out is a reflection of just the end demand being pulled versus maybe several of your customers struggling with process technology and attracting effectively customers to justify the construction of the factories?

後續的問題是，有多少推出只是反映了最終需求的拉動，而您的一些客戶可能在工藝技術方面苦苦掙扎，並有效吸引客戶來證明工廠建設的合理性？

I think it's both.

我認為兩者都是。

So it's a mix of that.

所以這是一個混合體。

I think that we mentioned the slower recovery first, because I think this affect every single customer.

我認為我們首先提到了恢復速度較慢，因為我認為這會影響每個客戶。

So we are still quite optimistic about AI.

所以我們對AI還是比較樂觀的。

I think today without AI, the market would be very sad if you ask me.

我認為如果你問我的話，如果今天沒有人工智慧，市場會非常悲傷。

But for the rest, I think our customer continues to confirm that when it comes to power, when it comes to PC sorry, when it comes to automotive, the recovery is not what I think A1 had wished for.

但對於其餘的，我認為我們的客戶繼續確認，在電力方面，在個人電腦方面，抱歉，在汽車方面，復甦並不是我認為 A1 所希望的。

And that affect, I would say, a large part of our customer on all segments and application.

我想說，這影響了我們所有細分市場和應用程式的大部分客戶。

I think we also indeed mentioned as well some competitive dynamic on logic.

我認為我們確實也提到了邏輯上的一些競爭動態。

I think that also has been expressed at plans in the press in the last three months.

我認為過去三個月媒體的計劃也表達了這一點。

I think that's not really new for you.

我認為這對你來說並不新鮮。

And this also contribute to some of the push out.

這也導致了一些退出。

So I think those two things are really the two dynamics that have come up in the last few months to a level where our customer basically started to really make, I would say, decision that were in line with their expectation both on the total market, but also maybe in some cases on the share they may end up having in some of the logic market.

所以我認為這兩件事實際上是過去幾個月出現的兩種動態，我們的客戶基本上開始真正做出決定，這些決定符合他們對整個市場的期望，但在某些情況下，他們最終可能在某些邏輯市場中佔有份額。

Makes sense.

有道理。

And just a tiny follow-up to Roger, if I may.

如果可以的話，我只是羅傑的一個小小的後續行動。

When you look at your IBM revenues in Q4, there is a big step up.

當你查看 IBM 第四季的營收時，你會發現有一個很大的成長。

Can you give us a sense as to whether that's sort of a new normal?

您能否讓我們了解這是否是一種新常態？

And especially thinking about 25% in your guidance and coming back to the point that was raised earlier on the EUV revenues, which are look optimistic.

尤其是考慮到您的指導中的 25%，並回到先前提出的關於 EUV 收入的觀點，這看起來很樂觀。

So is the installed base management going to grow a lot in 2025 and effectively picks up the baton a little bit from EUV?

那麼，到 2025 年，裝機量管理是否會大幅成長，並有效地從 EUV 手中接過接力棒？

Yes, Didier, I wouldn't say that it's the new normal as we also explained today in the earlier and also as we explained in the video, there is clearly also a one off effect in there meeting a certain performance target.

是的，迪迪埃，我不會說這是新常態，正如我們今天在早些時候所解釋的那樣，也正如我們在視頻中所解釋的那樣，在滿足特定性能目標時顯然也會產生一次性效應。

So that was one reason that we expect that's a one off effect, if you like, in what we see for Q4.

因此，如果您願意的話，這就是我們預計第四季度出現的一次性效應的原因之一。

That said, we do believe that the installed base business, both on the service side and also on the upgrade side, is going to grow in a quite healthy way to -- in 2025.

也就是說，我們確實相信，無論是在服務方面還是在升級方面，安裝基礎業務都將在 2025 年以相當健康的方式成長。

So yes, we do project that it will that there will be quite healthy growth in that.

所以，是的，我們確實預計這將出現相當健康的成長。

So there will be healthy double-digit growth as we currently see it in the installed base management in '25 in comparison to '24.

因此，正如我們目前在 25 年的安裝基礎管理中看到的那樣，與 24 年相比，將會出現健康的兩位數成長。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mehdi Hosseini, Susquehanna.

邁赫迪·侯賽尼，薩斯奎哈納。

Yes.

是的。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您提出我的問題。

Excuse me.

打擾一下。

First one for Christophe, I want to better understand the momentum with high NA, I think at the SPIE conference a couple of weeks ago, there was increased interest by your key customers for changes to the radical going to larger radical size.

Christophe 的第一個想法是，我想更了解高 NA 的勢頭，我認為在幾週前的 SPIE 會議上，您的主要客戶對將激進轉變為更大的激進尺寸越來越感興趣。

And I want to better understand how you see that evolving or impacting booking for high NA or would the reticle or change it to reticle would cause a push out as you try to book 5200?

我想更好地了解您如何看待高 NA 的演變或影響預訂，或者當您嘗試預訂 5200 時，十字線或將其更改為十字線會導致推出嗎？

And I have a follow-up.

我有一個後續行動。

Yes.

是的。

So I think the interest you said it is increasing.

所以我認為你所說的興趣正在增加。

And I think what you have seen at the conference is that the initial data that have been shared on high NA by ASML, but also by some customers have been received very positive because it shows significant performance improvement when it comes to imaging and some good very good cost support duty on some of the layer for DRAM and Logic.

我認為您在會議上看到的是，ASML 在高 NA 上共享的初始數據以及一些客戶都收到了非常積極的反饋，因為它在成像方面顯示出顯著的性能改進，並且一些非常好的性能對DRAM 和邏輯的某些層提供良好的成本支援。

So I think the interest is high indeed and increasing.

所以我認為人們的興趣確實很高，而且還在增加。

The discussion on the 12 inches reticle is a bit a discussion about what else could we do in the future to further improve the productivity of high NA first and potentially of the tool.

關於 12 英寸標線的討論有點討論我們將來還可以做些什麼來進一步提高高 NA 首先和潛在的工具的生產率。

So the conference you referred to is a bit of a technical conference.

所以你提到的會議有點像是技術會議。

So people likes to discuss basically what could come next.

所以人們喜歡基本上討論接下來會發生什麼。

It was a good engagement.

這是一次很好的訂婚。

This was a sign indeed also of the fact that more start to count really on high NA into the future.

這實際上也表明更多人開始真正依賴高數值孔徑的未來。

And that timeframe is not at all aligned with the 5000 or 5200.

而且這個時間框架與 5000 點或 5200 點完全不一致。

So I think there's absolutely no connection between what we do with high NA and what we may do in the future with the 12 inches A reticle.

所以我認為我們用高數值孔徑所做的事情和我們將來可能用 12 英寸 A 十字線所做的事情之間絕對沒有聯繫。

To give you an idea that discussion may become more concrete towards the end of the decade or the beginning of the next one.

讓您知道討論可能會在本十年末或下一個十年開始時變得更加具體。

So it's really a long-term technical discussion we have engaged with our customer and we are happy discussion with them because this can provide a significant productivity improvement for high NA, but for lithography in general.

因此，這確實是我們與客戶進行的長期技術討論，我們很高興與他們進行討論，因為這可以為高數值孔徑（但對於一般光刻）提供顯著的生產力改進。

But that's not for tomorrow, and therefore, this will in no way impact our current discussion and business on high NA.

但這不是明天的事情，因此，這絕對不會影響我們當前的討論和高 NA 業務。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And then a quick follow-up for you and Roger.

然後是你和羅傑的快速跟進。

Where are we with internal capacity targets?

我們的內部能力目標處於什麼位置？

And given the updated ‘25 target, how do you see the capacity targets that you put out in 2022, evolving?

鑑於更新後的 25 美元目標，您如何看待 2022 年制定的容量目標的演變？

So where are we today with DUV and EUV manufacturing capacity?

那麼，我們目前的 DUV 和 EUV 製造能力處於什麼水平？

And how are you changing the targets for additional capacity that you put out back in 2022?

您將如何更改 2022 年新增產能的目標？

Yes.

是的。

So if you realize today, we have a lot of focus, of course, on 2025.

所以如果你今天意識到的話，我們當然有很多重點關注 2025 年。

And I think what we say is that for next year, with a slower recovery, the number of tools we will be head of shipping to our customer is mostly less than what we expected, both in Capital Market Day 2022, but also a few months ago.

我認為我們所說的是，明年，隨著復甦速度放緩，我們將負責向客戶運送的工具數量大多低於我們的預期，無論是在 2022 年資本市場日還是在幾個月後前。

Now what I've also said in the introduction is when we look at the long term, when we listen to our peers, I think that the bullishness about the long term opportunity of this market is strong.

我在引言中也說過，當我們著眼於長期時，當我們聽取同行的意見時，我認為對這個市場的長期機會的看漲情緒是強烈的。

We share that, which means that at some point of time, the need for more capacity will be there.

我們同意這一點，這意味著在某個時候，將會需要更多的容量。

So what we do, we continue to execute on the long lead time items, things like building some equipment.

因此，我們所做的就是繼續執行交貨時間較長的項目，例如建造一些設備。

On the other hand, because the short-term market is a bit, I will say softer than, what we expected previously.

另一方面，因為短期市場比我們之前預期的要軟一些。

We are also slowing down, basically any short-term investment.

我們也在放慢速度，基本上是任何短期投資。

When it comes to people material, etcetera, et cetera.

當涉及到人的物質，等等等等。

We don't have to do that today.

今天我們不必這樣做。

We will do that when we have, again, visibility for a larger demand, but the structure of our capability, we want to still drive, because I will say when a recovery take more times to happen, if you believe on the long-term trajectory of the market, there is always a point where you have to deliver more tools, and we want to be ready for that as well.

當我們再次看到更大需求的可見性時，我們會這樣做，但我們的能力結構，我們仍然希望推動，因為我會說，如果你相信長期的話，復甦需要更多時間才能隨著市場的發展軌跡，總有一個點需要提供更多工具，我們也希望為此做好準備。

Thank you.

謝謝。

I love what to see in you at CMD.

我喜歡在 CMD 看到的你。

Chris Caso, Wolfe Research.

克里斯‧卡索，沃爾夫研究中心。

My first question I'd like to dig into a little bit more of what more specifically may have changed over the last 90 days, because some of the things you referred to you China, some of the memory spending, some the logic spending, some of it I think was sort of known 90 days ago and some may be incremental.

我的第一個問題我想深入探討過去 90 天裡可能發生的更具體的變化，因為你提到中國的一些事情，一些內存支出，一些邏輯支出，一些我認為其中一些內容在90 天前就已為人所知，其中一些可能是增量的。

If I take, each of those three and some of the fab push outs that have come about that, how would you characterize the change in your calendar ‘25 guidance among those three areas?

如果我考慮這三個領域中的每一個以及因此而推出的一些晶圓廠，您將如何描述這三個領域中日曆 25 指南中的變化？

Basically, what was new to you as compared to when we had the last earnings call?

基本上，與我們上次召開財報電話會議相比，您有什麼新鮮事？

I think, if you take the different pieces, I think when it comes to China, we already started to indicate in the last call that over time we do see China trending towards a more normalized percentage.

我認為，如果你從不同的角度來看，我認為當談到中國時，我們已經在上次電話會議中開始表明，隨著時間的推移，我們確實看到中國的百分比趨於更加正常化。

I think the intensity also of the discussions in the press, including discussions on more export restrictions, I think have driven us to more cautiousness when it comes to China.

我認為媒體討論的激烈程度，包括關於更多出口限制的討論，我認為也促使我們在涉及中國時變得更加謹慎。

That I think is really driven by developments in the past couple of months.

我認為這確實是由過去幾個月的發展所推動的。

I think when it comes to other customers, on previous calls we've indicated that there was uncertainty.

我認為，當談到其他客戶時，我們在先前的電話中已經表示存在不確定性。

I think what we see to a large extent is that part of that uncertainty has really materialized.

我認為我們在很大程度上看到的是，部分不確定性確實已經成為現實。

What became a -- what was a question mark maybe a number of quarters ago, has now become quite clear that a certain level of demand from certain customers was -- is in all likelihood not going to happen.

幾個季度前可能是一個問號的事情現在已經變得非常清楚，即某些客戶的一定水平的需求很可能不會發生。

So that was the reason why we decided to -- that we could no longer hold a large window of EUR30 billion to EUR40 billion at the in the world.

這就是我們決定的原因——我們不能再在全球範圍內持有 300 億至 400 億歐元的大窗口。

That as a result of that, we needed to reduce that window to the lower half.

因此，我們需要將該視窗縮小到下半部。

I think, Chris, the background of it, and that's what really changed.

我想，克里斯，它的背景，這才是真正改變的地方。

It's the materialization of certain risks and uncertainties that we talked about before that have driven us to this lower expectation.

正是我們之前討論過的某些風險和不確定性的具體化導致我們降低了預期。

Just as a follow-on with your comments on China of course there haven't been new export restrictions announced.

正如您對中國的評論的​​後續內容一樣，當然還沒有宣布新的出口限制。

So is a correct to interpret your comment is that you're making some judgment on what you think some of those restrictions, how that may affect revenue in ‘25, prior to those being fully implemented.

因此，正確解釋您的評論是，在完全實施之前，您正在對您對其中一些限制的看法以及這可能如何影響 25 年的收入做出一些判斷。

Is that the correct interpretation?

這是正確的解釋嗎？

Yes, Chris, as we were newspapers and we see continued speculation on things that might happen, and as a result of that, we've decided to take a more cautious view.

是的，克里斯，因為我們是報紙，我們看到對可能發生的事情的持續猜測，因此，我們決定採取更謹慎的觀點。

And that indeed has resulted in is one of the drivers.

這確實導致了驅動因素之一。

I mentioned the other driver as well.

我還提到了另一位司機。

But the combination of China being us eating less and less into the backlog of China and speculation around more export control restrictions that has led us to the conclusion that it is prudent to go back to this 20% for China as far as 20% of our total business.

但是，中國對中國積壓訂單的消化越來越少，加上圍繞更多出口管制限制的猜測，使我們得出這樣的結論：對中國來說，回到這20% 是明智的，只要我們的20% 就可以了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Francois-Xavier Bouvignies, UBS.

布維尼 (Francois-Xavier Bouvignies)，瑞銀集團。

Thanks a lot for letting me in.

非常感謝你讓我進來。

My first question is on the comment that you mentioned on the smartphone market and PCs and the market is a bit slower.

我的第一個問題是關於你提到的關於智慧型手機市場和個人電腦的評論，市場有點慢。

Versus three months ago, the smartphone market and PCs indeed is slower.

與三個月前相比，智慧型手機市場和個人電腦確實放緩了。

But the magnitude of the revision of EUV of 15% to 20% is still quite big compared to the weakness of the market.

但EUV 15%~20%的修正幅度與市場的疲軟相比還是相當大的。

So I was just coming back and it seems to be really two customers that have been well in the press having some issues.

所以我剛回來，似乎確實是兩個在媒體上廣為人知的客戶遇到了一些問題。

So we would have thought that you would see some swap out in the orders in terms of customers.

因此，我們原以為您會看到客戶訂單中出現一些掉期。

Did you see any sign of like upside risk into some orders at least a bit offsetting or interest related to these customer issues?

您是否看到某些訂單有任何類似上行風險的跡象，至少有點抵消了與這些客戶問題相關的利益？

Or is it a scenario that your customers gave you some too optimistic forecast in light of a big shortage of EUV you had in recent years and therefore the swap out will take much stronger than expected?

或者說，鑑於近年來你們的 EUV 嚴重短缺，你們的客戶給了你們一些過於樂觀的預測，因此換出的時間會比預期的要強得多？

I'm sorry for the long question as usual.

像往常一樣，我很抱歉問了這麼長的問題。

No, it's okay, Francois.

不，沒關係，弗朗索瓦。

Those are good questions.

這些都是好問題。

And I think you touched again on the two drivers that we have seen changing our, I would say, demand expectation for next year.

我認為您再次談到了我們看到的兩個驅動因素，它們改變了我們對明年的需求預期。

So the combination of the two again is important.

所以兩者的結合再次很重要。

And the first one, I think you see yourself as you mentioned, the recovery on mobile PC to be weaker than expected initially.

第一個，我認為正如您所提到的，行動 PC 的復甦弱於最初的預期。

This has an impact, I will say, on the capacity planning, but also maybe on expectation of capacity planning.

我想說，這對容量規劃有影響，但也可能對容​​量規劃的期望產生影響。

So I think we use the word cautiousness a few times in the call.

所以我認為我們在電話中多次使用了“謹慎”這個詞。

When you become cautious, I think this means you are careful on the short-term, but also a bit on the midterm.

當你變得謹慎時，我認為這意味著你對短期很謹慎，但對中期也有些謹慎。

So you have a bit of a double hit if you want with the cautiousness.

因此，如果你願意謹慎的話，你會受到雙重打擊。

So that's the first one.

這是第一個。

On the second one, I think we also mentioned some upside on the AI, because we still believe that the overall demand for those application is there, continue to increase.

關於第二個問題，我認為我們也提到了人工智慧的一些好處，因為我們仍然相信對這些應用程式的整體需求是存在的，並且持續成長。

So if we look at the server demand, we see there a very nice recovery, a lot of that has to do with AI application.

因此，如果我們看看伺服器需求，我們會發現恢復得非常好，這很大程度上與人工智慧應用程式有關。

So we talk about upside, which also means that the overall dynamic of the market is still playing, and we felt the need to hover an update for next year based on some of the development we have seen.

因此，我們談論上行空間，這也意味著市場的整體動態仍在發揮作用，我們認為有必要根據我們所看到的一些發展對明年進行更新。

I think in no way we are also saying that there is a complete understanding of how the entire market will continue to play out in the next few months.

我認為我們絕不是在說我們已經完全了解整個市場在未來幾個月將如何繼續發展。

So I think on the second part of your question, I would say maybe this has not played out fully yet.

所以我認為關於你問題的第二部分，我想說也許這還沒有完全發揮出來。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And you would expect to happen then I guess to -- at some point to happen?

你會期望會發生，然後我猜會——在某個時候發生？

Well, I think if everyone and I think a lot of us still believe in the strong AI demand in the coming years, I think that demand has to be fulfilled.

好吧，我認為如果每個人和我認為我們很多人仍然相信未來幾年強勁的人工智慧需求，我認為這種需求必須得到滿足。

Therefore, yes, I would say mostly we will see some development also on that front in the coming months.

因此，是的，我想說的是，在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將在這方面看到一些進展。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you, Christophe.

謝謝你，克里斯托夫。

And maybe my follow-up would be on the high NA.

也許我的後續行動會是高NA。

I don't want you to spoil the Capital Markets Day, but could you maybe give us an update on the high NA now in terms of years of adoption, maybe Logic Memories, anything happening here versus maybe three months ago, six months ago since you passed the wafers?

我不想讓你破壞資本市場日，但你能否給我們提供一下現在高 NA 的最新情況，比如採用年數，也許是邏輯記憶，這裡發生的任何事情與三個月前、六個月前相比你通過了晶圓嗎？

Well, I think I said a few months ago that the period we are in, the months we are in will be important for the data generation, generating data to our customer, our customer that have placed many order already on high NA for R&D.

嗯，我想我幾個月前就說過，我們所處的時期、我們所處的幾個月對於數據生成、為我們的客戶生成數據非常重要，我們的客戶已經在高NA下了許多訂單用於研發。

And when you generate data, you have two options.

當您產生數據時，您有兩種選擇。

The data are bad and customer kind of like it less, or the data are good and they like it more.

數據不好，客戶不太喜歡它，或數據很好，他們更喜歡它。

And I think we are more in the second situation today.

我認為今天我們更多的是處於第二種情況。

We continue to generate data.

我們繼續產生數據。

We talked about 10,000 wafer exposed.

我們談到了 10,000 片晶圓的曝光。

These are all to demonstrate basically the performance of the tool, on logic, memory, and all of that is helping our customer to, I would say, to make their plan of insertion and adoption a bit more concrete and start to define some very specific milestones.

這些基本上都是為了展示該工具在邏輯、內存方面的性能，所有這些都在幫助我們的客戶，我想說，使他們的插入和採用計劃更加具體，並開始定義一些非常具體的內容里程碑。

So this is a bit where we are.

這就是我們現在的情況。

We are very happy with the progress on high NA.

我們對高 NA 的進展感到非常高興。

We are very happy with the performance.

我們對演出感到非常滿意。

We are happy with the data, and we'll continue in the next few months to work with our customer to translate basically those initial good results into real, I would say, plan in their manufacturing fabs.

我們對這些數據感到滿意，我們將在接下來的幾個月中繼續與我們的客戶合作，將這些最初的良好結果基本上轉化為真正的，我想說的是，在他們的製造工廠中的計劃。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Alexander Duval, Goldman Sachs.

亞歷山大杜瓦爾，高盛。

Yes, May.

是的，五月。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

I wondered if you could talk about what level of orders you need in the coming quarters to hit the new midpoint of guidance.

我想知道您是否可以談談未來幾季需要什麼水平的訂單才能達到新的指導中點。

I think previously you talked about EUR6 billion of orders in the second half of this year to hit the prior midpoint.

我想您之前談到今年下半年的訂單量將達到 60 億歐元，達到先前的中點。

And now we've obviously seen EUR2.5 billion in the quarter, but a lower target.

現在我們明顯看到該季度的營收為 25 億歐元，但目標較低。

So how should we be thinking about this?

那我們該如何思考這個問題呢？

And to what degree are is there some wiggle room in the Q1 given lead times potentially to still get orders which could benefit 2025?

考慮到交付週期，第一季還有多大程度的迴旋餘地，仍可能獲得可能使 2025 年受益的訂單？

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

Yes, Alexander.

是的，亞歷山大。

So you're right.

所以你是對的。

And I would say that in addition to what you observed in terms of the overall order intake, it's also clear that obviously there has been some push outs into 2026.

我想說，除了您在總訂單量方面觀察到的情況外，很明顯，到 2026 年，訂單量也明顯有所下降。

So that's also something that you should recognize, right?

所以這也是你應該要認清的，對吧？

That's orders that originally were provided to us as 2025 orders and the mix that we just discussed have been shifted to beyond 2025.

這些訂單最初是作為 2025 年訂單提供給我們的，而我們剛才討論的組合已轉移到 2025 年之後。

So that dynamic should also be considered.

因此也應該考慮這種動態。

What we're looking at today, I would say, I think we're when it comes to EUV because obviously that is relevant I think in this conversation.

我想說，我們今天所關注的是 EUV，因為我認為這顯然與本次對話有關。

I think DEEP UV given the significantly lower order lead times is less relevant here.

我認為鑑於訂單交貨時間明顯較低，深紫外線在這裡不太相關。

But when it comes to EUV, at this stage, I think it's fair to say that we're sort of fully booked for the low end of the guidance that we've provided.

但就 EUV 而言，在現階段，我認為可以公平地說，我們所提供的指導的低端部分已經被預訂滿了。

In order to get to the midpoint of the guidance, I would say that we need another, let's say, EUR2 billion in order to hit the midpoint of the guidance before the end of the year.

為了達到指引的中點，我想說，我們還需要 20 億歐元，才能在年底前達到指引的中點。

So EUR2 billion should then come in this quarter.

因此，本季應達到 20 億歐元。

When it comes to flexibility, I think there is some flexibility.

談到靈活性，我認為有一定的靈活性。

To the extent that orders would come in Q1, I think we would still probably be able to cater to those orders in 2025.

就第一季的訂單而言，我認為我們仍然可能能夠在 2025 年滿足這些訂單。

I think we build in sufficient flexibility to create that.

我認為我們建立了足夠的靈活性來創造這一點。

Helpful.

有幫助。

Maybe it's a quick follow-up.

也許這是一個快速的跟進。

We've had a number of investor questions about sort of lithography intensity in the context of areas ramping like advanced packaging, advanced deposition, for example.

我們收到了許多投資者關於在先進封裝、先進沉積等領域不斷發展的背景下的光刻強度的問題。

Just curious to what degree you see that as having a structural impact on litho intensity.

只是好奇您認為這對光刻強度有多大程度的結構性影響。

To what degree does that matter in 2026, and beyond on the assumption that the semis market continues to grow over time?

假設半成品市場隨著時間的推移而持續成長，那麼到 2026 年及以後，這有多重要？

Yes, so I think, we will talk about that in the capital market day, in a few weeks from now, because those are more longer-term considerations.

是的，所以我認為，我們將在幾週後的資本市場日討論這個問題，因為這些是更長期的考慮。

Anything we discuss today I think is in no way related to those kind of I would say considerations.

我認為我們今天討論的任何內容都與我所說的考慮因素無關。

The whole discussion is really around the market dynamic.

整個討論其實是圍繞著市場動態展開的。

I think those question are very good for our longer term opportunities and we will be spending quite some time discussing that again in the November meeting together.

我認為這些問題對我們的長期機會非常有利，我們將在 11 月的會議上花相當多的時間再次討論這個問題。

Tammy Qiu, Berenberg.

邱塔米，貝倫貝格。

The first one is on China.

第一個是關於中國的。

You mentioned that China is going to normalize from here, because of different reasons.

你提到中國將從這裡開始正常化，原因有很多。

Is it right to understand that the 2025 level of Chinese business will be the new baseline of China?

中國商業2025年水準將是中國新的基​​線，這個理解正確嗎？

Are you, we shouldn't see another 20% or 30% decrease from here into 2026?

您認為，從現在到 2026 年，我們不應該再看到下降 20% 或 30% 嗎？

I think, the 20% is what we consider to be a normal percentage of our business for China.

我認為，20%是我們認為的中國業務的正常比例。

We would assume that is a number that also on a go forward basis we believe would be realistic for China.

我們假設這個數字在未來的基礎上對中國來說也是現實的。

Of course, subject to anything related to export controls and what have you, which is beyond our control.

當然，受制於任何與出口管制相關的事情以及你所擁有的一切，這是我們無法控制的。

But simply looking at the market, we believe, that the China market structurally would be able to accommodate about 20% of our revenue.

但單純看市場，我們認為中國市場在結構上能容納我們約20%的收入。

The follow-up I have is on the two large customer which push out their order in this quarter.

我的後續行動是關於本季推出訂單的兩位大客戶。

In your 2025 number, on those two big customers, did you actually budgeted more trim in there when you estimate your 2025 revenue or basically you have taken the push out from this quarter come out with the 2025 number, so therefore we may actually subject to further push out if they do it another round in the next, let's say two quarters.

在您的2025 年數字中，對於這兩個大客戶，當您估計2025 年收入時，您實際上是否在其中預算了更多削減，或者基本上您已經從本季度推出了2025 年數字，因此我們實際上可能會受到如果他們在下一輪（比方說兩個季度）再做一次，就會進一步推遲。

Tammy, real quick to clarify, you said in 2025 we budgeted.

Tammy，很快就澄清了，你說我們在 2025 年制定了預算。

What was that?

那是什麼？

Basically, I said, when you are budgeting a 2025 revenue, when you give this new guidance range, at mid-point [EUR32.5 million], did you actually budget additional cut from those two big customers or you only reflected the cut you have seen in this quarter?

基本上，我說，當您制定2025 年收入預算時，當您給出這個新的指導範圍（中點[3250 萬歐元]）時，您實際上是否預算了這兩個大客戶的額外削減，或者您只反映了您的削減本季度看過嗎？

Tammy, we've essentially taken the latest view that we've developed with that customer.

Tammy，我們基本上採用了與該客戶共同開發的最新觀點。

So you will appreciate with those customers.

所以你會欣賞這些客戶。

You will by the way, you talk about two customers, I think it's fair to say it's more than two customers, but what we've reflected in what we have now is the latest status of the conversations with those customers.

順便說一句，你談論兩個客戶，我認為公平地說它超過兩個客戶，但我們現在所反映的是與這些客戶對話的最新狀態。

That's what is in here.

這就是這裡的內容。

But you will also appreciate that the closer you get to the year, the more firm those customers will be on their demand.

但您也會意識到，距離這一年越近，這些客戶對他們的需求就越堅定。

So I think what we're looking at for now is a pretty current and I would say accurate view of those customers of what they need for next year as a baseline.

因此，我認為我們現在所關注的是當前情況，我想說的是，這些客戶對他們明年的需求的準確看法是作為基準。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

C.J. Muse, Cantor Fitzgerald.

C.J.繆斯，坎托·費茲傑拉。

I guess first question, was trying to dig a little bit deeper into China.

我想第一個問題是試圖更深入地了解中國。

You are guiding to 20% of revenues, which basically suggests down 30% year-on-year.

你指導的是收入的 20%，基本上意味著年減 30%。

I'm curious, does that 20% reflect just normalization or are you taking certain precautions in terms of anticipated regulatory pressure?

我很好奇，這 20% 是否僅僅反映了正常化，或者您是否在預期的監管壓力方面採取了某些預防措施？

And if so, what kind of dollar amount or percentage is reflected by maybe more cautious behavior as opposed to a change in end demand trends?

如果是這樣，與最終需求趨勢的變化相比，可能更謹慎的行為反映了什麼樣的金額或百分比？

Yes.

是的。

I think C.J. I said it.

我想 C.J. 我說過了。

The cautious view is for the two reasons.

持謹慎態度的原因有二。

The cautious view is because as we said before, we believe at a certain point in time China will go to a more normalized level because we're not over delivering on their backlog.

持謹慎態度是因為正如我們之前所說，我們相信在某個時間點中國將達到更正常化的水平，因為我們沒有過度履行他們的積壓訂單。

That's 1.

那是 1。

And second, I said given the discussions that we also read in the press, we've become a bit more cautious.

其次，我說考慮到我們也在媒體上讀到的討論，我們變得更加謹慎了。

To dissect that is impossible to do.

剖析這是不可能的。

So it's that combination that has given rise to our expectation of China being 20%, which is not too far away indeed from your 30% decline.

因此，正是這種組合導致我們對中國下降 20% 的預期，這與您的下降 30% 相差不遠。

But I guess I'm trying to, decipher why it's impossible.

但我想我正在嘗試解釋為什麼這是不可能的。

I mean, obviously, you have a vision for end demand and then you're taking a haircut to reflect maybe more conservatism.

我的意思是，顯然，你對最終需求有一個願景，然後你會進行剪髮以反映可能更保守的態度。

Is there a way to understand that haircut?

有沒有辦法理解這個髮型？

It's related, C.J. So the two go hand-in-hand.

這是相關的，C.J. 所以兩者是相輔相成的。

So you cannot dissect that and I will not dissect that.

所以你不能剖析它，我也不會剖析它。

Okay.

好的。

Maybe a bigger question.

也許是一個更大的問題。

In a world where two leading logic players are floundering, you really kind of have three big EUV customers in TSMC, Hynix, and Micron.

在兩個領先的邏輯廠商都陷入困境的世界裡，你確實擁有台積電、海力士和美光這三大 EUV 客戶。

And just curious, as you think about kind of monopoly versus monopsonist, are you thinking about changing your plan to pre-build?

只是好奇，當您考慮壟斷與壟斷者時，您是否正在考慮改變您的預建計劃？

I would think that pricing power and pre-building don't go hand-in-hand.

我認為定價能力和預建並不是齊頭並進的。

So we'd love to hear your kind of philosophy around that.

所以我們很想聽聽您對此的看法。

Well, I think the one priority for us is to serve our customers, which means that whatever total demand our customer will give us, we want to be able to honor that.

嗯，我認為我們的首要任務是為客戶提供服務，這意味著無論客戶向我們提出什麼總需求，我們都希望能夠滿足這一點。

And that's especially important to do that when you are the single supplier of EUV tools.

當您是 EUV 工具的單一供應商時，這一點尤其重要。

I think that's the responsibility we have.

我認為這就是我們的責任。

I think the discussion on pre-build started when we saw a situation where we may not be able to meet the demand with the output of one year.

我想關於預建的討論是在我們看到一年的產出可能無法滿足需求的情況時開始的。

And then to be consistent with my previous point, prebuild in the lower year is a way to do that.

然後，為了與我之前的觀點保持一致，在較低年份進行預建是實現這一目標的一種方法。

So this means also that this number of prebuild tool will of course evolve with the market situation.

因此，這也意味著預先建置工具的數量當然會隨著市場狀況而改變。

And if we are in a situation where the market is low, we don't see the need to do that, except specific request of our customer.

如果我們處於市場低迷的情況，我們認為沒有必要這樣做，除非客戶有具體要求。

But what we have seen also in the past is that things tends to change, and I think the mix between our customer is also evolving back and forth over time.

但我們過去也看到事情往往會發生變化，我認為我們的客戶之間的組合也在隨著時間的推移而不斷變化。

So I think that's also something we keep in mind.

所以我認為這也是我們要牢記的事情。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

桑迪普·德什潘德，摩根大通。

Yeah.

是的。

Hi.

你好。

Thanks for letting me on.

謝謝你讓我上來。

I want to go back to one of the early questions again.

我想再次回到早期的問題之一。

I mean, in terms of your guidance for next year, I mean, when we look at the numbers, it looks like your growth in DUV outside China is going to be incredibly strong.

我的意思是，就你們明年的指導而言，我的意思是，當我們查看這些數字時，看起來你們在中國以外的 DUV 業務的成長將非常強勁。

I mean and also when I've looked at ASML for so many years, I mean, the view is that ASML, when you give one year guidance, you tend to be within that ballpark.

我的意思是，當我研究 ASML 這麼多年時，我的意思是，我的意思是，ASML 的觀點是，當你給出一年的指導時，你往往會在這個範圍內。

You don't tend to be wrong in that -- in those terms.

從這些方面來說，你往往不會錯。

So I mean, how confident do you feel that the DUV outside China is going to see significant growth next year given that DUV does tend to have shorter lead times than EUV?

所以我的意思是，考慮到 DUV 的交貨時間確實比 EUV 短，您對明年中國以外的 DUV 將會出現顯著增長有多大信心？

And I have one follow-up after that.

之後我還有一個後續行動。

Yes.

是的。

So as I well, you caught it in incredible growth.

所以和我一樣，你也看到了它令人難以置信的成長。

As I mentioned before, I think you're looking for the non-Chinese part of the DEEP UV business.

正如我之前提到的，我認為您正在尋找深紫外線業務的非中國部分。

We're looking at about similar growth as we see it for EUV.

我們正在尋找與 EUV 類似的成長。

So leave it to your own imagination how you want to qualify that.

因此，您可以自行想像如何限定這一點。

But it is the two things go hand-in-hand.

但這是兩件事齊頭並進的。

We see quite a bit of DEEP UV demand also particularly I would say on the leading nodes.

我們也看到了相當多的深紫外線需求，特別是在領先節點上。

So therefore, I think assumptions on a strong correlation between capacity build on EV and capacity build on the non-Chinese part of the DUV, I think that is a realistic assumption.

因此，我認為關於電動車產能建設與 DUV 非中國部分產能建設之間存在著強烈相關性的假設，我認為這是一個現實的假設。

So therefore, with that very strong correlation as we see it, we believe that the underpinning for that demand increase, something we believe is robust.

因此，鑑於我們所看到的這種非常強的相關性，我們相信需求增加的基礎是強勁的。

And Roger, I mean, just on the same question, I mean, in terms of your forecasting for 2025, this is in line with how you forecast in prior years, correct?

羅傑，我的意思是，就同一個問題而言，我的意思是，就您對 2025 年的預測而言，這與您前幾年的預測一致，對嗎？

So there's nothing different?

那麼沒有什麼不同嗎？

Or do you think that this year is 2025 looking something very dramatically different and so you may have to change later or something like that?

或者您認為今年是 2025 年，情況看起來會非常不同，因此您可能需要稍後做出更改或類似的事情？

No, I think it's essentially the same.

不，我認為本質上是一樣的。

You could argue, Sandeep, that we're a bit early.

桑迪普，你可能會說我們有點早了。

And the reason that we're a bit early is because we believe given the dynamics that Christophe talked about at the beginning, we believe that the second or the high end of the bandwidth is not realistically in reach based on what we know today.

我們之所以有點早，是因為我們相信，考慮到 Christophe 在開始時談到的動態，我們認為，根據我們今天所了解的情況，頻寬的第二個或高端並不現實。

So that's the reason why we believe it was prudent to say we should be looking at the lower end.

因此，這就是為什麼我們認為謹慎地說我們應該關注低端市場的原因。

Of course, in the next couple of months, we're going to once again talk to customers and listen to their plans, etcetera, etcetera.

當然，在接下來的幾個月裡，我們將再次與客戶交談並聽取他們的計劃等等。

But I think the way we're looking at next year and the work that we've done on that is not dramatically different from what we've done in previous years.

但我認為我們明年的展望以及我們所做的工作與前幾年並沒有太大不同。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

And one for my second question is on high NA.

我的第二個問題是高數值孔徑。

Christophe, I mean, there have been public comments by one of your customers on high NA.

Christophe，我的意思是，您的一位客戶在高 NA 上發表了公開評論。

Clearly, the data which has been available at the last conference at high NA seems to be very good.

顯然，上次會議上獲得的高 NA 數據似乎非常好。

So my question is, are your top three customers all going to sign up for high NA quickly?

所以我的問題是，您的前三位客戶是否都會快速註冊高 NA？

Or is this some of them go to delay like one of them did with EUV and we know the consequences of that, of course?

或者他們中的一些人會像其中一個人在 EUV 上那樣推遲，當然我們知道這樣做的後果？

I think we've been consistent in the last few quarters mentioning that all our EUV customer had order an high-NA tools.

我認為我們在過去幾個季度一直提到我們所有的 EUV 客戶都訂購了高數值孔徑工具。

All our EUV have been engaged with us in the high-NA lab.

我們所有的 EUV 都已在高數值孔徑實驗室中與我們合作。

So everyone is really using this time to collect the data.

所以大家確實是利用這段時間來收集數據。

So the data you may have a chance to see, the one you referred to, I think are also looked at seen by all customers.

因此，您可能有機會看到的數據，即您提到的數據，我認為所有客戶也會看到。

I think the engagement today on high NA is really coming from all of our EUV customer, and the timing they have in mind for insertion for adoption is still pretty much in line with what we are discussed in in the past.

我認為今天高 NA 的參與實際上來自我們所有 EUV 客戶，他們考慮的插入採用的時間仍然與我們過去討論的內容非常一致。

I think, the good data we have been able to generate on the very first tools are just if anything, supporting that approach.

我認為，我們在第一個工具上產生的良好數據足以支持這種方法。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

All right, we have time for one last question.

好的，我們有時間回答最後一個問題。

If you are unable to get through on this call and still have questions, please feel free to contact the ASML investor relations department with your question.

如果您無法接通本次電話會議但仍有疑問，請隨時聯絡 ASML 投資者關係部門提出您的問題。

Now, operator, may we have the last caller please?

現在，接線員，可以接聽最後一位來電者嗎？

Adithya Metuku, HSBC.

Adithya Metuku，匯豐銀行。

Firstly, just a clarification, if I heard you correctly, you said the competitive dynamics between the logic players, you pointed out earlier you're saying that the problems that these, some of these customers have led to downside risks crystallizing for 2025, but the upside risks from the share shifts between these logic customers haven't yet crystallized and are not yet in your assumptions for 2025.

首先，澄清一下，如果我沒聽錯的話，您提到了邏輯參與者之間的競爭動態，您之前指出，您是說這些客戶中的一些問題導致了 2025 年下行風險的具體化，但是這些邏輯客戶之間的份額變化帶來的上行風險尚未具體化，並且尚未包含在您對2025 年的假設中。

Is that right, did I hear that correctly?

是嗎，我沒聽錯吧？

I think, I would say short answer is yes.

我想，簡短的回答是肯定的。

That's again why we refer to some upside on some part of the market.

這也是我們提到市場某些部分出現上漲的原因。

Essentially, you're saying, you're priced in caution for China even though we have no clarity on export controls and how they'll develop, and then there could be upside risk from share shifts between logic customers into 2025.

從本質上講，您是說，儘管我們尚不清楚出口管制及其如何發展，但您對中國的定價仍保持謹慎，而且到 2025 年，邏輯客戶之間的份額轉移可能會帶來上行風險。

And then maybe just as a follow-up.

然後也許只是作為後續行動。

On low-NA EUV ASPs for Roger.

Roger 的低數值孔徑 EUV ASP。

When I take the numbers you're giving, less than 50 low-NA tools and five high-NA tools and the growth -- and DUV declining, so essentially, your EUV has to grow quite significantly.

當我獲取您提供的數字時，不到 50 個低 NA 工具和 5 個高 NA 工具，並且增長 - DUV 下降，所以本質上，您的 EUV 必須顯著增長。

But with the ASPs you've given for the 3800 machine and the mix shifts you're still talking about for 2025 between 3600D and 3800E, it sounds like your low-NA ASP has to be something like EUR240 million, and I'm not sure how I get to that number.

但是根據您為 3800 機器提供的 ASP 以及您仍在談論的 2025 年 3600D 和 3800E 之間的混合變化，聽起來您的低 NA ASP 必須約為 2.4 億歐元，而我不是確定我是如何獲得這個數字的。

I don't know if you can help me reconcile those figures, if possible.

如果可能的話，我不知道你是否可以幫我核對這些數字。

Apologies if the question isn't clear.

如果問題不清楚，請道歉。

Well, the question is clear, but your model isn't clear.

嗯，問題很清楚，但你的模型不清楚。

So that's why it's difficult to reconcile it on this call, Adithya.

所以這就是為什麼在這次電話會議上很難協調一致，阿迪蒂亞。

But by and large, I think you mentioned EUR240 million, that would definitely be too high and that is also not what we have in our numbers.

但總的來說，我認為你提到了 2.4 億歐元，這肯定太高了，而且我們的數字也沒有這個數字。

So if we look at the ASP that I recognize or that we recognize in our model to get you to the midpoint of the guidance, there is an ASP that is above EUR200 million, but that's definitely not at a EUR240 million level.

因此，如果我們查看我所認可的或我們在模型中認可的平均售價，以幫助您達到指導的中點，就會發現平均售價高於 2 億歐元，但絕對不是 2.4 億歐元的水平。

So I think you might want to revisit that.

所以我想你可能想重新考慮一下。

I don't know exactly what you have on high NA.

我不知道你到底有什麼高NA。

So it's a matter of really taking a thorough look at your model.

所以問題是要真正徹底檢視你的模型。

On high NA, you should have at least for the 5200, you should have an ASP of over EUR350 million.

在高 NA 的情況下，您至少應該擁有 5200，您的 ASP 應該超過 3.5 億歐元。

So I don't know if you have that in there.

所以我不知道你那裡有沒有這個。

But the ASP to work on for low NA would be north of EUR200 million in the mix, but would be -- would definitely be lower than the EUR240 million that you just noted.

但是，針對低 NA 的平均售價將超過 2 億歐元，但肯定會低於您剛才提到的 2.4 億歐元。

All right.

好的。

Now on behalf of ASML, I'd like to thank you all for joining us today.

現在，我謹代表 ASML，感謝大家今天加入我們。

Operator, if you could formally conclude the call, appreciate it.

接線員，如果您能正式結束通話，我們將不勝感激。

Thank you.

謝謝。