艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by.

您好，感謝您的支持。

Welcome to the ASML 2024 second quarter financial results conference call on July 17, 2024. (Operator Instructions) please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

歡迎參加 2024 年 7 月 17 日 ASML 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議。

I would now like to turn the conference call over to Mr. Skip Miller.

現在，我想將電話會議轉給 Skip Miller 先生。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, operator.

謝謝您，接線生。

Welcome everyone, this is Skip Miller, Vice President of Investor Relations at ASML.

歡迎大家，我是 ASML 投資人關係副總裁 Skip Miller。

Joining me today on the call, our ASML CEO, Christophe Fouquet; and our CFO, Roger Dassen.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有我們的 ASML 執行長 Christophe Fouquet；以及我們的財務長 Roger Dassen。

The subject of today's call is ASML's 2024 second quarter results.

今天電話會議的主題是 ASML 2024 年第二季業績。

The length of this call will be 60 minutes and questions will be taken in the order they are received.

此次通話時間為 60 分鐘，問題將依照收到的順序回答。

This call will also be broadcast live over the Internet at asml.com. A transcript of management's opening remarks and a replay of the call will be available on our website shortly following the conclusion of this call.

本次電話會議也將透過 asml.com 進行網路現場直播。本次電話會議結束後不久，我們將在我們的網站上提供管理層開場白的記錄和電話會議的重播。

Before we begin, I'd like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒聽眾，管理階層在本次電話會議中發表的評論將包括聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及重大風險和不確定性。

For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the safe harbor statement contained in today's press release and presentation found on our website at asml.com and in ASML's annual report on Form 20-F and other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

有關風險因素的討論，我建議您查看今天的新聞稿和簡報中包含的安全港聲明，這些聲明可在我們的網站 asml.com 上找到，也可以在 ASML 的 20-F 表年度報告和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中找到。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Christophe Fouquet, for a brief introduction.

接下來，我想將電話轉給 Christophe Fouquet，做簡短的介紹。

Thank you, Skip.

謝謝你，Skip。

Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our second quarter 2024 results conference call.

歡迎大家，感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第二季業績電話會議。

Before we begin the Q&A session, Roger and I would like to provide an overview and some commentary on the second quarter 2024, as well as provide our view of the coming quarter.

在我們開始問答環節之前，羅傑和我想對 2024 年第二季進行概述和評論，並提出我們對下一季的看法。

Roger, will start with a review of our second quarter 2024 financial performance with added comments on our short-term outlook.

羅傑，首先會回顧我們 2024 年第二季的財務業績，並對我們的短期展望發表一些評論。

I will complete the introduction with some additional comments on the current business environment.

我將對當前的商業環境做一些補充評論來完成介紹。

(technical difficulty) Roger?

（技術難題）明白？

Thank you, Christophe, and welcome, everyone.

謝謝你，克里斯托夫，歡迎大家。

I will first review the second quarter 2024 financial accomplishments and then provide guidance on the third quarter of 2024.

我將首先回顧 2024 年第二季的財務業績，然後對 2024 年第三季提供指導。

Let me start with our second quarter accomplishments.

讓我先介紹一下我們第二季的業績。

Total net sales came in at EUR6.2 billion, which is just above guidance.

總淨銷售額為 62 億歐元，略高於預期。

Net system sales of EUR4.8 billion, which is made up of EUR1.5 billion of EUV sales and EUR3.3 billion of non-EUV sales.

淨系統銷售額為 48 億歐元，其中 EUV 銷售額 15 億歐元，非 EUV 銷售額 33 億歐元。

Net system sales was driven by logic at 54% with the remaining 46% coming from Memory.

淨系統銷售額中有 54% 由邏輯電路驅動，其餘 46% 由記憶體驅動。

Installed Base Management sales for the quarter came in at EUR1.48 billion, slightly higher than guidance.

本季安裝基礎管理銷售額為 14.8 億歐元，略高於預期。

Gross margin for the quarter came in at 51.5%, which was above our guidance, primarily driven by more immersion systems than planned.

本季毛利率為 51.5%，高於我們的預期，主要由於沉浸式系統數量超出計畫。

On operating expenses R&D expenses came in slightly above guidance at EUR1.1 billion due to higher R&D expense regarding metrology and inspection, while SG&A expense came in slightly below our guidance at EUR277 million as a result of lower IT spend.

在營運費用方面，研發費用略高於預期，為 11 億歐元，原因是計量和檢測方面的研發費用增加，而銷售、一般和行政費用略低於我們的預期，為 2.77 億歐元，原因是 IT 支出減少。

Net income in Q2 was EUR1.6 billion, representing 25.3% of total net sales and resulting in an EPS of EUR4.01.

第二季淨收入為 16 億歐元，佔總淨銷售額的 25.3%，每股收益為 4.01 歐元。

Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the second quarter with cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments at a level of EUR5.0 billion.

談到資產負債表，我們第二季末的現金、現金等價物和短期投資水準為 50 億歐元。

We ended Q2 with free cash flow of EUR386 million, which is an improvement relative to last quarter.

我們第二季的自由現金流為 3.86 億歐元，與上一季相比有所改善。

However, as mentioned, last quarter, there continues to be pressure on free cash flow as we provide some support for our customers and operated higher inventory levels.

然而，正如上個季度所提到的，由於我們為客戶提供了一些支援並且庫存水平較高，自由現金流繼續面臨壓力。

The latter being a result of the increased material intake, including High-NA as part of our planned capacity ramp in preparation for a strong demand next year.

後者是由於材料攝入量增加，包括 High-NA，這是我們計劃的產能提升的一部分，為明年的強勁需求做準備。

We expect to gradually return to normal cash conversion levels as the industry continues to recover.

隨著產業持續復甦，我們預期現金轉換水準將逐步恢復正常。

Moving to the order book, Q2 net system bookings came in at EUR5.6 billion, which is made up of EUR2.5 billion of EUV bookings and EUR3.1 billion of non-EUV bookings.

談到訂單，第二季淨系統訂單額為 56 億歐元，其中包括 25 億歐元的 EUV 訂單和 31 億歐元的非 EUV 訂單。

Net system bookings in the quarter were mainly driven by logic at 73% and Memory, the remaining 27% of the bookings.

本季的淨系統預訂量主要由邏輯（佔 73%）和記憶體（剩餘 27%）推動。

At the end of Q2 2024, we finished with a backlog of around EUR39 billion.

截至 2024 年第二季末，我們的積壓訂單量約為 390 億歐元。

With that, I would like to turn to our expectations for the third quarter of 2024.

因此，我想談談我們對 2024 年第三季的預期。

We expect Q3 total net sales to be between EUR6.7 billion and EUR7.3 billion.

我們預計第三季總淨銷售額將在 67 億歐元至 73 億歐元之間。

We expect our Q3 Installed Base Management sales to be around EUR1.4 billion, gross margin for Q3 is expected to be between 50% and 51%.

我們預計第三季安裝基礎管理銷售額約為 14 億歐元，第三季毛利率預計在 50% 至 51% 之間。

We still expect a slightly lower gross margin for the full year 2024 compared to 2023.

我們仍預期 2024 年全年毛利率將略低於 2023 年。

Although margins for the second half of the year are expected to be positively impacted by higher volumes and more favorable EUV Low NA mix, we expect this to be offset by increased High NA costs relative to the first half of the year.

雖然預計下半年的利潤率將受到更高銷售量和更有利的 EUV 低 NA 組合的正面影響，但我們預計這將被相對於上半年的高 NA 成本的增加所抵消。

Expected R&D expenses for Q3 are around EUR1.1 billion, and SG&A is expected to be around EUR295 million.

第三季預計研發費用約11億歐元，銷售、一般及行政費用預計約2.95億歐元。

Our estimated 2024 annualized effective tax rate is expected to be between 16%, 17%.

我們預計 2024 年年化有效稅率將在 16% 至 17% 之間。

In Q2, ASML paid a final dividend of EUR1.75 per ordinary share.

第二季度，ASML 派發了每股普通股 1.75 歐元的末期股息。

Together with the interim dividend paid in Q2 in 2023 and 2024, this resulted in a total dividend for 2023 of EUR6.10 per ordinary share.

加上 2023 年和 2024 年第二季支付的中期股息，2023 年每股普通股的股息總額為 6.10 歐元。

The first quarterly interim dividend over 2024 will be one point EUR1.52 per ordinary share and will be made payable on August 7, 2024.

2024 年第一季中期股利為每股普通股 1.52 歐元，並將於 2024 年 8 月 7 日支付。

In Q2 2024, we purchased 106,000 shares for a total amount of EUR96 million.

2024 年第二季度，我們購買了 106,000 股，總金額為 9,600 萬歐元。

With that, I would like to turn the call back over to Christophe.

說完這些，我想把電話轉回給克里斯托夫。

Thank you, Roger.

謝謝你，羅傑。

As Roger highlighted, a good quarter with sales and profitability above guidance.

正如羅傑所強調的，這是一個良好的季度，銷售額和獲利能力都高於預期。

Although macro uncertainty remains, overall semiconductor industry levels continued to improve, trending towards more healthy levels.

雖然宏觀不確定性依然存在，但整體半導體產業水準持續改善，趨於更健康的水平。

We also see continued improvement in this geography tools utilization level at both logic and memory customers, all in line with the industry's continued recovery from the downturn.

我們也看到邏輯和記憶體客戶的地理工具利用率水準持續提高，這一切都與產業從低迷中持續復甦相一致。

Our outlook for the full year is unchanged, with revenue expected to be similar to last year.

我們對全年的預期保持不變，預計收入與去年持平。

We currently see strong developments in AI driving most of the industry recovery and growth ahead of other end market segments.

我們目前看到人工智慧的強勁發展推動了大部分產業的復甦和成長，領先其他終端市場。

We still expect a stronger second half relative to the first half of the year.

我們仍然預計下半年的表現將比上半年更加強勁。

Logic customers continue to digest the significant capacity additions made over the past year.

Logic 客戶繼續消化過去一年來大幅增加的產能。

With this addition, we see lower revenue from logic this year relative to last year.

加上這項因素，我們發現今年的邏輯收入比去年有所下降。

In memory, demand is primarily driven by DRAM technology node transitions in support of advanced memories such as DDR5 and HBM.

在記憶體方面，需求主要由 DRAM 技術節點轉換驅動，以支援 DDR5 和 HBM 等先進記憶體。

In support of this transition, we expect growth in revenue from Memory this year relative to 2023.

為了支持這一轉變，我們預計今年的記憶體收入將比 2023 年有所成長。

For our installed base business, we continue to expect a similar level of revenue compared to last year.

對於我們的已安裝基礎業務，我們繼續預期收入水準與去年相似。

As the recovery becomes more clear this year, customer may look to upgrade their system in preparation for 2025.

隨著今年復甦勢頭更加明朗，客戶可能會考慮升級他們的系統，為2025年做好準備。

Turning to our businesses, we expect EUV revenue growth in 2024, we plan to recognize revenue on a similar number of EUV system as 2023, with expected revenue from one to two High-NA system.

談到我們的業務，我們預計 2024 年 EUV 收入將成長，我們計劃在與 2023 年相似數量的 EUV 系統上確認收入，預計收入來自一到兩個高 NA 系統。

On our Low-NA EUV system, additional NXE:3800E system this quarter as we continue to ramp production.

在我們的低NA EUV 系統上，本季增加了 NXE:3800E 系統，我們將繼續提高產量。

As customers transition to advanced nodes in both Logic and Memory, we expect the majority of shipments in the second half of the year to be NXE:3800E system.

隨著客戶轉向邏輯和記憶體的先進節點，我們預計下半年的大部分出貨量將是 NXE:3800E 系統。

Regarding High-NA, we shipped the second system this quarter and it is currently under installation.

關於 High-NA，我們本季已出貨第二套系統，目前正在安裝中。

The first system shipped to a customer is running qualification wafers.

發送給客戶的第一個系統正在運行合格晶圓。

Overall, the interest is high, with EUV customers now using our High-NA system in the joint ASML-Imec demo lab in Veldhoven for their initial development.

總體而言，人們的興趣很高，EUV 客戶現在在位於 Veldhoven 的 ASML-Imec 聯合演示實驗室中使用我們的高 NA 系統進行初步開發。

We have already exposed wafer for multiple Logic and Memory customer and have now achieved the emerging resolution specification of eight nanometer.

我們已經為多個邏輯和記憶體客戶曝光了晶圓，現在已實現了八奈米的新興分辨率規格。

High-NA will enable an almost three times increase in transistor density relative to the Low NA system.

相對於低NA系統，高NA將使電晶體密度增加近三倍。

So all in all, good momentum on High-NA and progressing well against customer expectations.

總體而言，High-NA 勢頭良好，並且進展順利，符合客戶的期望。

We expect our non-EUV business to be down in 2024, primarily driven by lower immersion system sales relative to 2023.

我們預計，我們的非 EUV 業務將在 2024 年下滑，主要原因是浸入式系統銷量相對於 2023 年有所下降。

As we have stated over the last few quarters, we view 2024 as a transition year and continue to make investments this year, both in capacity ramp and in technology to be ready for future demand.

正如我們在過去幾個季度所說的那樣，我們將 2024 年視為過渡年，並在今年繼續進行投資，包括產能提升和技術，為滿足未來的需求做好準備。

While the slope of the industry recovery is still uncertain based on discussion with our customer and supported by our strong backlog, we expect 2025 to be a strong year driven by a number of factors as mentioned last quarter.

儘管根據我們與客戶的討論以及我們強勁的積壓訂單的支持，行業復甦的斜率仍不確定，但正如上個季度提到的，我們預計 2025 年將是強勁的一年，這受到多種因素的推動。

First, the secular growth driver in semiconductor end markets, which we have previously discussed, such as energy transition, electrification and AI are still very much intact.

首先，我們之前討論過的半導體終端市場的長期成長動力，例如能源轉型、電氣化和人工智慧，仍然十分完好。

The expanding application space, along with increasing the progress on future technology nodes drives demand for both advanced and mature nodes.

應用空間的不斷擴大以及未來技術節點的不斷進步推動了對先進和成熟節點的需求。

Second, the industry expects to be in a cyclical upturn in 2025.

第二，預計2025年產業將進入週期性好轉階段。

And last, as mentioned earlier, we need to prepare for a number of new fabs that are being built across the globe.

最後，正如前面所提到的，我們需要為全球各地正在建造的許多新晶圓廠做好準備。

In some instances, clearly supported by several government incentive plans.

在某些情況下，顯然得到了多項政府激勵計劃的支持。

These fabs are spread geographically and are strategic for our customers.

這些晶圓廠遍布各地，對我們的客戶來說具有戰略意義。

They are all scheduled to take out tools.

他們都計劃取出工具。

It is essential that we keep our focus on the future and build capacity in preparation for future long-term growth as we discussed in the market scenario for 2025 and 2030 during our Investor Day in November 2022.

正如我們在 2022 年 11 月的投資者日上討論的 2025 年和 2030 年的市場情景一樣，我們必須繼續關注未來並建立能力，為未來的長期成長做好準備。

We plan to update all of you during our Investor Day this year on November 14, 2024.

我們計劃在今年 2024 年 11 月 14 日的投資者日期間向大家通報最新情況。

In summary, although there is near term uncertainty, we remain confident in our long-term growth opportunity.

總而言之，儘管短期內存在不確定性，但我們對長期成長機會仍然充滿信心。

With that, we will be happy to take your questions.

我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Thank you, Roger and Christophe.

謝謝你，羅傑和克里斯托夫。

(Event Instructions) Now operator, could we have your final instructions and the first question, please.

（活動指示）現在接線員，請問您最後的指示和第一個問題。

(Operator Instructions) Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

(操作員指示) Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

Hi, thanks for taking my question.

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。

Christophe, Roger, the first question is on the bookings composition in the outlook.

克里斯托夫、羅傑，第一個問題是關於前景中的預訂組成。

In the booking for EUV in the EUR2.5 billion, whether any two nanometer orders from foundry customers that you said you should expect in Q2 or Q3, any High-NA in the mix?

在 25 億歐元的 EUV 訂單中，您是否說過應該在第二季或第三季收到來自代工客戶的兩奈米訂單，其中是否包含高 NA？

And based on the bookings momentum and backlog, how do you think about calendar '25 revenues?

根據預訂動能和積壓訂單，您如何看待 25 年的收入？

Do you think it could be towards the upper end of the EUR30 billion to EUR40 billion range.

您認為該金額可能達到 300 億歐元至 400 億歐元的上限嗎？

And then I had a quick follow-up.

然後我進行了快速的跟進。

So on the on the bookings, as you would have seen in the bookings mix, 73% of the of the bookings is related to -- was related to Logic.

因此，在預訂方面，正如您在預訂組合中看到的那樣，73％的預訂與邏輯有關。

So I think that gives you pretty strong indication [who the] buyers are and who is in the mix.

所以我認為這可以給你相當有力的跡象，表明買家是誰，以及買家是誰。

So I think it is reasonable to assume that's the foundry business at two nanometer is in the books, so that's one.

因此，我認為可以合理地假設，2奈米的代工業務已經存在，這是其中之一。

High-NA is not in there.

高 NA 不在其中。

So no High-NA bookings in this quarter.

因此本季沒有高 NA 預訂。

So everything you see there on EUV is related to Low-NA.

因此，您在 EUV 上看到的一切都與 Low-NA 相關。

As it relates to 2025, Krish, very consistent -- I think in our in our messaging, and that's what we see.

至於 2025 年，Krish 非常一致 - 我認為在我們的訊息傳遞中，這就是我們所看到的。

We confirm what we said in November of 2022, which is we expect 2025 to be between EUR30 billion and EUR40 billion.

我們確認了我們在 2022 年 11 月所說的話，即預計 2025 年將達到 300 億歐元至 400 億歐元之間。

We've also said it's at the low point of that guidance.

我們也表示，它正處於該指導水準的低點。

[That] quarter we've given you a bit of an a bit of an understanding of what it takes to be fully booked at the beginning of 2025 for the midpoint of the range.

[那個]季度，我們讓您稍微了解一下在 2025 年初達到該範圍中點的完全預訂需要什麼。

I think you can conclude with the bookings number that we reported in that were nicely on track.

我想你可以根據我們報告的預訂數量得出結論，一切進展順利。

With that we still confirm that our expectation is between EUR40 billion and EUR40 billion and are not going to be more specific than what we've been so far.

因此，我們仍然確認我們的預期是在 400 億歐元到 400 億歐元之間，並且不會比迄今為止的預期更具體。

Got it.

知道了。

(multiple speakers)

（多位發言者）

Krish, one more thing, and Christophe, was very clear in his comments.

Krish，還有一件事，Christophe 在他的評論中說得非常清楚。

I think in the Capital Markets Day, that we're going to have in November of 2024.

我認為我們將在 2024 年 11 月迎來資本市場日。

That's going to be the point in time where we are going to be more specific.

那將是我們更具體地討論的時間點。

So that's where we will be more specific as to what we expect for 2025.

因此我們將更具體地說明我們對 2025 年的預期。

That's when we're going to narrow the guidance, but we're not going to do that before.

那時我們就會縮小指導範圍，但我們之前不會這麼做。

Thanks, Roger.

謝謝，羅傑。

Thanks a lot for that amazing color.

非常感謝這令人驚嘆的色彩。

And then a quick follow-up for Christophe.

然後對 Christophe 進行快速跟進。

And obviously the article today about the US administration looking to impose some severe trade restrictions using the foreign direct product rule on China shipments.

顯然，今天的文章是關於美國政府試圖利用外國直接產品規則對中國貨物實施一些嚴格的貿易限制。

I know obviously you folks have good citizens follow the rules, had a curious, what do you think about the potential implications for ASML from here?

我知道你們顯然是遵守規則的好公民，我很好奇，你們認為這對 ASML 來說可能有何影響？

How much more severe could it be given the fact that you do have a pretty high exposure to China, if you can give some color or some bookends around that, that would be very helpful.

考慮到您對中國的了解確實很高，情況還會嚴重到什麼程度？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, I think first (technical difficulty) we don't comment on rumors and there's a lot of rumors on that topic.

嗯，我認為首先（技術困難）我們不對謠言發表評論，而且關於這個主題有很多謠言。

So on that topic, we comment even less, I would say.

因此我想說，在這個問題上，我們的評論就更少了。

So that's the first thing.

這是第一件事。

I think we had discussion on China in the past together.

我想我們過去曾一起討論過中國問題。

And I think the point Roger and I have made in the last few quarters, which is still valid, is before you look at China, I think you have to look at the opportunity we see on the mature semiconductor market.

我認為羅傑和我在過去幾季提出的觀點仍然有效，那就是在關注中國之前，我認為你必須先看看我們在成熟的半導體市場上看到的機會。

That opportunity was defined as being significant in our Capital Market Day in November 2022.

我們於 2022 年 11 月的資本市場日將此機會定義為重要機會。

We still believe it's significant.

我們仍然相信它意義重大。

In 2023, 2024, China has been investing a large part of this market.

2023年、2024年，中國已經投資了這個市場的很大一部分。

And this is why I think our revenue on China has been high.

我認為這就是我們在中國的收入很高的原因。

Moving forward, we still believe that this market is needed and therefore that the capacity (technical difficulty) is coming out of somewhere.

展望未來，我們依然相信這個市場是需要的，而且其容量（技術難度）將會從某個地方出現。

So that's a bit the position we take on that discussion.

這就是我們在該討論中所持的立場。

I think we always look at the end market, at what's the need of the end market.

我認為我們總是關注終端市場，並關注終端市場的需求是什麼。

I think we are a bit less sensitive on where that capacity may be produced.

我認為，我們對這些產能可能在哪裡生產的敏感度不太高。

Alexander Duval, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的亞歷山大·杜瓦爾。

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

You confirmed today that it's fair to assume that a Logic customer ordered on 2-nanometer this quarter.

您今天確認，可以合理地假設 Logic 客戶本季訂購了 2 奈米。

But clearly for such a large node, one would expect to see more order flow.

但顯然，對於如此大的節點，人們期望看到更多的訂單流。

So wonder to what extent it's fair to assume one should expect more EUV orders from them in the coming quarters.

因此，我們不禁要問，在多大程度上可以合理地假設未來幾季他們會有更多的 EUV 訂單。

And as a quick follow-up, you mentioned in your prepared remarks that AI is driving most of the industry's recovering growth.

順便問一下，您在準備好的發言中提到，人工智慧正在推動大部分產業的復甦成長。

Are you able to decompose what specifically is driving this for ASML?

您能否具體分析一下 ASML 的這項舉措的推動因素？

To what extent, do you see litho needs being driven by high bandwidth memory, data center processing or edge AI?

您認為光刻需求在多大程度上是由高頻寬記憶體、資料中心處理或邊緣 AI 驅動的？

Is there any area that's surprising to the upside?

有哪些領域令人驚喜地進步了？

Many thanks.

非常感謝。

It's clear I think that if you look at the orders data that came in and that there is a healthy start, I would say, for the N2 foundry business, I think, it's a healthy start.

很明顯，如果你看一下收到的訂單數據，你會發現這是一個健康的開端，對於 N2 代工業務來說，我認為這是一個健康的開端。

It's also clear that obviously not the full capacity that you would need for this node is in there.

很明顯，這個節點所需的容量顯然不在這裡。

But that is pretty logical, right?

但這很合乎邏輯，對吧？

I mean, obviously, this customer is going to ramp, and there you will see a gradual buildup, and that will -- you will also see, at some stage, you will see additional orders coming in for that ramp, exactly what that buildup will be you might want to raise that question by tomorrow.

我的意思是，顯然這個客戶將會增加產量，你會看到產量逐漸增加，而且你還會看到，在某個階段，你會看到為了增加產量而有額外的訂單進來，這個增加的產量到底是多少，你可能想在明天提出這個問題。

And maybe the second part, I think, is for you Christophe.

我認為，也許第二部分更適合你，克里斯托夫。

Yeah, I think so -- I think I said it in my comment initially.

是的，我是這麼認為——我想我最初在我的評論中就說過這一點。

I think we've been also consistent there.

我認為我們在這方面也一直保持一致。

So I think AI is driving, I would say, right now, the biggest part of the recovery.

因此我認為，人工智慧正在推動經濟復甦的最大部分。

This is true for logic.

對於邏輯來說這是正確的。

This is true for memory.

對於記憶來說，也是如此。

Roger just commented on Logic.

羅傑剛剛對邏輯發表了評論。

I think you know that for high bandwidth memory, those products drive more demand, more wafer demand, because we are looking basically at a higher density of DRAM on those products and we look at something that, of course, will take course over several months.

我想你知道，對於高頻寬內存，這些產品會推動更多的需求，更多的晶圓需求，因為我們基本上是在關注這些產品上更高密度的 DRAM，而且我們所關注的當然需要幾個月的時間才能完成。

So we started to see the positive effect of that for 2025.

因此我們開始看到這對 2025 年的正面影響。

We expect that to continue into 2026, both for memory and for logic.

我們預計這種情況將持續到 2026 年，無論是記憶體還是邏輯。

And at some point of time, also mentioned that maybe the other segments are a bit behind in terms of recovery.

並且在某個時間點也提到其他部分在恢復方面可能有點落後。

So a lot of the capacity today, either logic or DRAM capacity, will be (technical difficulty) those AI product.

所以今天的許多產能，無論是邏輯產能或DRAM產能，都會是那些（技術難度）AI產品。

As the other segments recover, we also expect potentially some capacity to be needed there.

隨著其他領域的復甦，我們預計那裡也可能需要一些產能。

And that's also why we believe overall, that 2025 will be a strong year.

這也是為什麼我們大致相信 2025 年將會是強勁的一年。

And I think what everyone is trying to understand, what you try to understand is exactly the pace of it that I think we don't know exactly.

我認為每個人都試圖理解的是，你試圖理解的正是它的步伐，但我認為我們並不完全了解它的速度。

But the fundamentals, I would say, on AI and I think the recovery in general are strong from our point of view.

但我想說，從我們的角度來看，人工智慧的基本面以及整體復甦勢頭強勁。

Tammy Qiu, Berenberg.

塔米‧邱 (Tammy Qiu)，貝倫貝格。

Hi.

你好。

Thank you for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

So, first one on the leading-edge 2-nanometer ramp-up phase.

因此，首先要討論的是前沿的 2 奈米加速階段。

So you mentioned that they are starting to ramp-up their leading-edge 2-nanometer capacity already or preparing for that.

所以您提到他們已經開始提升其領先的 2 奈米產能或為此做準備。

Do you notice anything in this quarter suggesting that they are pulling in the ramp-up phase or everything is as planned?

您是否注意到本季度有任何跡象表明他們正進入成長階段或一切都按計劃進行？

And the second question I have is regarding the DRAM adoption of more EUV layers as well as High NA EUV, how do you see the layer count change over the next few generations?

我的第二個問題是關於 DRAM 採用更多的 EUV 層以及高 NA EUV，您認為未來幾代層數將如何變化？

Are we going to see similar level of growth of layers as we have seen over the past two years or it will gradually slow down?

我們是否將看到與過去兩年類似的層數增長水平，還是會逐漸放緩？

If there is a number you can share, it will be great.

如果您能分享一個號碼，那就太好了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

I'll take the first part, Christophe, and you can take the second.

我來負責第一部分，克里斯托夫，你負責第二部分。

But as it comes to, do you notice any pull in there, I think the foundry customer has indicated that they're looking at N2 in the second half of 2025.

但說到這個，你是否注意到那裡有任何吸引力，我認為代工客戶已經表示他們正在考慮 2025 年下半年的 N2。

I think you're typically, for this customer, looking at a lead time of around a year.

我認為，對於這個客戶來說，通常需要大約一年的交貨時間。

As we've said before, I think, putting in orders at this stage I think is consistent with that to the extent that there is a difference in timing or ramp.

正如我們之前所說的那樣，我認為，在此階段下訂單與此是一致的，只是時間或坡道上的差異而已。

Again, I think that's a question that you might want to raise on a conference call tomorrow.

再次，我認為您可能想在明天的電話會議上提出這個問題。

But I think what we see here is pretty consistent with what we've also heard publicly -- heard them stated publicly about starting this in the second half of 2025.

但我認為，我們現在看到的情況與我們公開聽到的消息非常一致——聽到他們公開表示將在 2025 年下半年開始實施這項計畫。

Christophe, on DRAM?

克里斯托夫，在 DRAM 上？

Yeah.

是的。

On DRAM, so I think they also I think be very consistent with the information we have shared with you previously.

關於 DRAM，我認為它們也與我們之前與您分享的資訊非常一致。

So we see on the -- an increase of EUV use on every node.

因此我們看到每個節點上 EUV 的使用都有增加。

I think this is a trend that continue at least in the foreseeable future.

我認為這種趨勢至少在可預見的未來會持續下去。

Of course, it's always more difficult to make forecasts on nodes or technology that are still being defined by customer, but that logic is still in place.

當然，對仍由客戶定義的節點或技術進行預測總是比較困難，但這種邏輯仍然存在。

I think you have seen also in DRAM that this point of time, all customers are using EUV in production.

我想您也已經在 DRAM 中看到，此時所有客戶都在生產中使用 EUV。

I think the last customer was very public about that recently.

我認為上一位顧客最近公開談論了此事。

So you see a gradual basically adoption with different speed, maybe per customer, but I would say very much in line with I think what we explained already now for a few years.

因此，您會看到基本上採用的是漸進式的，速度可能因客戶而異，但我想說的是，這與我們幾年來已經解釋的內容非常一致。

On High NA, we also see opportunity for DRAM at the horizon of '25, '26.

在高 NA 方面，我們也看到了 25、26 年 DRAM 的機會。

As I mentioned in my commentaries, we see customers very eager to test the High NA tool in our lab, exposing their own wafer to validate basically that High NA can provide a nice opportunity both in performance, but also in cost savings.

正如我在評論中提到的，我們看到客戶非常渴望在我們的實驗室中測試高NA工具，暴露他們自己的晶圓，以驗證高NA是否可以在性能和成本節省方面提供良好的機會。

So they also same as before.

所以他們也和以前一樣。

We believe that '25, '26 is about the time where we could see some insertion of High NA for DRAM.

我們相信，25、26 年大約是我們可以看到 DRAM 高 NA 插入的時候。

Francois Bouvignies, UBS.

瑞銀的 Francois Bouvignies。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

My first question would be on China, I'm afraid, I mean -- and it's very simple.

我的第一個問題是關於中國的，恐怕我的意思是──這個問題非常簡單。

Could you make in the future deep EUV tools without US IP at all?

未來您可以在沒有美國智慧財產權的情況下製造深度 EUV 工具嗎？

And are all your deep EUV tools using US IP?

你們所有的深度 EUV 工具都使用美國 IP 嗎？

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

That's a very hypothetical question.

這是一個非常假設的問題。

At this stage, there is -- as you know, we have a lot of operations also in the United States, so there is a significant contingent of US technology in those tools.

現階段，如你所知，我們在美國也有很多業務，因此這些工具中很大一部分都採用了美國的技術。

So speculating about could we do it without US technology, I think, is speculation that we shouldn't -- that we shouldn't and will not go into, I think, or the way we produce and the way we run our business should not be influenced by this kind of question.

所以，我認為，關於我們是否能在沒有美國技術的情況下做到這一點的猜測，是我們不應該、也不會深入研究的猜測，或者說，我們的生產方式和經營業務的方式不應該受到這種問題的影響。

Okay.

好的。

Yeah, I think, maybe to add to that, I think we've been also very vocal to say that we believe that preserving the ecosystem as much as possible is a good thing for this industry.

是的，我想，也許應該補充一點，我們也一直非常直言不諱地說，我們相信盡可能地保護生態系統對這個行業來說是一件好事。

I think we still believe that.

我想我們仍然相信這一點。

And therefore, I think that's still also the discussion we're trying to have with all the stakeholders.

因此，我認為這仍然是我們試圖與所有利害關係人進行的討論。

Makes sense.

有道理。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

And may be the second question I had is a bit of a follow-up.

我的第二個問題可能有點後續。

So if we take like this EUV orders of EUR2.5 billion and your EUR39 billion of backlog that you have, I come with like, you still have 30 tools -- EUV tools to book for next year to reach the midpoint of the guidance.

因此，如果我們將 25 億歐元的 EUV 訂單和您 390 億歐元的積壓訂單放在一起，我認為您仍然有 30 種工具——EUV 工具可以在明年預訂，以達到預期的中點。

So Roger, you said nicely that your order backlog is -- orders is going well on track above this 4 billion, but it's mainly driven by deep EUV.

羅傑，你說得很好，你的訂單積壓量——訂單量超過 40 億，進展順利，但這主要是由深度 EUV 推動的。

And on EUV, it seems that you still need 30 to book for the rest of the year, which would imply around 7 billion of EUV orders coming in H2 versus 3 billion in H1.

而就 EUV 而言，似乎今年剩餘時間仍需要 30 台訂單，這意味著下半年的 EUV 訂單量約為 70 億台，而上半年的訂單量為 30 億台。

Is my math correct in a way to think that you still have a significant part of your EUV to be booked in the second half of the year, assuming, of course, you have one year lead times?

我的計算是否正確，認為您仍有很大一部分 EUV 需要在下半年預訂，當然，假設您的交貨時間為一年？

There's still -- I think the math that we gave before, I think, still holds.

我認為我們之前給出的數學計算仍然成立。

So as I mentioned, I think we're well on track to achieve the objective -- the objective there.

正如我剛才提到的，我認為我們正順利實現這一目標。

And we have given indications, or we have given a bandwidth for 2025, Francois, for the full revenue.

我們已經給出了指示，或者說我們已經給出了 2025 年的頻寬，弗朗索瓦，用於全部收入。

I think you're now jumping into one specific element of the revenue, but I think our math holds for the full revenue, and I think that's what holds.

我認為你現在正在進入收入的一個具體要素，但我認為我們的計算適用於全部收入，我認為這就是全部。

And I think going deeper into that and going there, I don't think adds anything to the overall message that I believe we are nicely underway to achieve the objectives and the bandwidth that we've discussed before.

我認為，如果進一步深入探討這個問題，並不會為整體訊息增添任何內容，我相信我們正在順利地實現我們之前討論過的目標和頻寬。

So I wouldn't go -- I wouldn't want to go at this stage any more specific into any of the components.

所以我不會——在這個階段我不想更具體地討論任何組件。

As I mentioned before, we have a Capital Markets Day coming up.

正如我之前提到的，我們的資本市場日即將到來。

There we will be a lot more specific on how we look at 2025.

我們將更具體地闡述我們如何展望 2025 年。

And until that point in time, I think, we're just going to stick to our core messaging that I've given before.

我認為，在那之前，我們只會堅持我之前所傳達的核心訊息。

Stephane Houri, ODDO BHF.

Stephane Houri，ODDO BHF。

Yeah, hello.

是的，你好。

Thank you for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

In your prepared remark this morning, you seem to talk pretty much about increasing capacity or at least preparing for the ramp.

在您今天早上的準備好的發言中，您似乎主要談論的是增加容量或至少是為提升容量做準備。

So does it mean that -- and at the same time, you're talking about -- very highly about the reception of EUV High NA.

那麼，這是否意味著——同時，您正在談論——對 EUV High NA 的接受度非常高。

So maybe if you could clarify what you mean by preparing the ramp and if it does mean that you want to increase your capacity, do more investment and maybe open a new plant?

所以，您能否澄清一下「準備坡道」是什麼意思，這是否意味著您想提高產能，進行更多投資，甚至開設新工廠？

Thank you.

謝謝。

So in general, when we talk about increase in capacity, we really talk about increasing capacity across the board.

因此，一般來說，當我們談論增加產能時，我們實際上談論的是全面增加產能。

And this really relates to the capacity expansion that we've talked about in the past, which is that we're driving towards the capacity of 600 deep EUV tools and 90 EUV tools.

這實際上與我們過去談到的產能擴張有關，即我們正在努力實現 600 台深 EUV 工具和 90 台 EUV 工具的產能。

But then added to that, we are indeed also expanding our capacity when it comes to High NA.

但除此之外，我們確實也在擴大我們在高 NA 的產能。

And that's I think -- it's that combination.

我認為，這就是——這種結合。

So when we talk about adding capacity and ramping capacity, it's really across the board, it's the 9,600.

因此，當我們談論增加產能和提升產能時，它實際上是全面的，即 9,600。

And as we mentioned before, medium term working towards 20 High NA tools.

正如我們之前提到的，中期目標是實現 20 種高 NA 工具。

Okay.

好的。

And can you maybe clarify where we are standing in terms of ASP for High NA tools?

您能否解釋一下我們在高 NA 工具的 ASP 方面的狀況？

Thank you.

謝謝。

On the High NA tools, what we said before is that we're looking at an ASP north of EUR350 million.

關於高 NA 工具，我們之前說過，我們正在尋找 3.5 億歐元以上的 ASP。

That's the ASP that we have for the 5,200 tool, which is the high-volume manufacturing tool that customers are ordering in this time frame.

這是我們針對 5,200 工具給出的 ASP，它是客戶在此時間範圍內訂購的大量製造工具。

Andrew Gardiner, Citi.

花旗銀行的安德魯‧加德納 (Andrew Gardiner)。

Hi.

你好。

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

先生們，下午好。

Thanks for taking the question.

感謝您回答這個問題。

If you don't mind, I'll try another one on China.

如果您不介意的話，我想再試一次關於中國的事情。

I'll try and be specific and we'll see whether you can comment on it.

我會盡量具體說明，然後看看您是否可以對此發表評論。

The article this morning seems to be, again, quite focused on your service activity in China and in particular, your servicing of tools that you were able to ship last year, high end immersion tools, NXT:2050 models.

今天早上的文章似乎再次重點關注您在中國的服務活動，特別是您去年能夠發貨的工具的維修服務，高端浸入式工具，NXT:2050 型號。

But as of the start of this year, you're no longer able to ship.

但從今年年初開始，您將無法再出貨。

Can you tell us whether you're still indeed servicing those tools at some of those clients?

您能否告訴我們您是否仍在為其中一些客戶提供這些工具的服務？

Yeah.

是的。

Can you just clarify that?

你能澄清一下嗎？

Well, we are following all the applicable laws and regulations when it comes to export controls.

嗯，在出口管制方面，我們遵守所有適用的法律和法規。

And of course, that is a landscape with US rules and with Dutch rules.

當然，這是符合美國規則和荷蘭規則的情況。

So for some fabs, there are more limitations to others.

因此對於一些晶圓廠來說，相較於其他晶圓廠會面臨更多限制。

But in general, it is still the case that we can operate in the fabs of our customers.

但總體來說，我們仍然可以在客戶的晶圓廠進行營運。

So we still have, as we call it, we still have eyes on the tools, so we're still in the fabs of our customers.

因此，正如我們所說，我們仍然關注著這些工具，所以我們仍然在客戶的晶圓廠裡。

But there are limitations that for some fabs are more stringent, and this is then particularly related to parts being sent either from the United States or from Europe or when it comes to the use of technology.

但有些晶圓廠的限制更為嚴格，這尤其與從美國或歐洲發送的零件或使用的技術有關。

So manuals, et cetera.

還有手冊等等。

So there are limitations that for some fabs are more stringent than for other fabs.

因此，有些晶圓廠的限制比其他晶圓廠更為嚴格。

But in general, we're still in a position that our people can continue to serve in the fabs of our customers in the arrangement.

但總的來說，我們仍然可以按照協議讓我們的員工繼續在客戶的晶圓廠服務。

And I think we'll be aware we have been now in this position for quite a few months.

我想我們會意識到我們處於這個境地已經有好幾個月了。

So I think the landscape has been set.

所以我認為情況已經定下來了。

So I think Roger said it, we fully understand the new regulation.

所以我認為羅傑說了，我們完全理解新規定。

We, I would say, adjusted our service, our action according to that.

我想說，我們根據這一點調整了我們的服務和行動。

But for us, this is not new news at this point of time.

但對我們來說，這目前並不是新鮮事。

We have been doing that for many months already.

我們已經這樣做好幾個月了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Also, if I could have a quick follow-up.

此外，如果我可以快速跟進的話。

Christophe, you mentioned the new fabs that are going to be built, some of which supported by CHIPS Act money or equivalent funds in other jurisdictions.

Christophe，您提到了將要建造的新晶圓廠，其中一些是由 CHIPS 法案資金或其他司法管轄區的同等資金支持的。

With all of those quotes scheduled to take tools, how much of an impact do you think is that in 2025 and how much is actually beyond that given the lead time it takes to build a lot of concrete and steel going in at the moment, but there's certainly not many ready to take actual clean room equipment just yet?

所有這些報價都計劃採用工具，您認為在 2025 年會產生多大影響？

Can you help us with how you think that's going to phase over '25 and then '26 and beyond?

您能否告訴我們，您認為這項進程在 2025 年、2026 年及以後將如何發展？

Yeah.

是的。

So I think to make the answer simple, I think, most of it will come, in fact, after 2025.

所以我認為答案很簡單，我認為大部分都會在 2025 年之後實現。

So I think the volume from those fab is still limited next year.

因此我認為明年這些晶圓廠的產量仍然有限。

I think you're mostly aware of the big announcement either in the US, in Europe, in Japan.

我想你們大多都了解美國、歐洲和日本的重大公告。

So I think this will come after '25, mostly starting 2026.

所以我認為這將在2025年之後實現，大多會在2026年開始。

This was also with my comment about preparing also the capacity for that.

這也是我關於準備能力的評論。

So as Roger explained, when we prepare the capacity, taking into account the lead time we have for some of our factories, some of our suppliers, of course, the capacity is there to meet the market demand, in fact, beyond 2025.

正如羅傑所解釋的那樣，當我們準備產能時，會考慮到我們一些工廠、一些供應商的交貨時間，當然，產能是為了滿足市場需求，事實上，可以滿足 2025 年以後的需求。

So this is what we wanted to be ready for.

所以這就是我們想要做好準備的。

So this is also why we are still very comfortable with the long-term view of the market, because those things are going to come.

所以這也是為什麼我們仍然對市場的長期前景非常滿意，因為這些事情都會實現。

And we could expect even some more government funding moving forward, because as you also see it in the news, I think there is more and more wish from everyone to really invest in this business.

我們可以期待未來政府會提供更多的資金，因為正如你在新聞中看到的那樣，我認為越來越多的人希望真正投資這項業務。

So I think that's also something we don't expect to slow down over time.

因此我認為我們預計這一趨勢不會隨著時間的推移而放緩。

We expect that there will be more after the first wave of the investment.

我們預計第一波投資之後還會有更多。

So Andrew, that's absolutely right.

安德魯，這是完全正確的。

And to add to that, of course, there are many new fabs that are being built, and not all of them are necessarily associated with the CHIPS Act money.

當然，除此之外，還有很多新的晶圓廠正在建設中，但並不是所有的晶圓廠都一定與《CHIPS法案》資金有關。

So that's why also in the past, we said that when it comes to 2025, more than half of the shipments will go (technical difficulty) but that will include new fabs, including new fabs, for instance, to be -- that are being constructed in Taiwan.

所以這也是為什麼我們在過去說過，到 2025 年，超過一半的出貨量將會流出（技術難度），但這將包括新晶圓廠，例如正在台灣建造的新晶圓廠。

So more than 50% of our shipments for 2025, we expect to go to new fabs.

因此，我們預計 2025 年 50% 以上的出貨量將流向新晶圓廠。

But Christophe is absolutely right.

但克里斯托夫完全正確。

I think the effect really of the CHIPS Act money, I think you should probably see beyond that year.

我認為《CHIPS法案》資金的真正效果應該會在接下來的幾年顯現出來。

Chris Caso, Wolfe Research.

克里斯‧卡索（Chris Caso），沃爾夫研究公司。

Yeah, thank you.

是的，謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

The question is regarding revenue for the back half of the year.

問題是關於下半年的收入。

And based on where you're guiding for the third quarter and maintaining the view on the full year, that does anticipate some acceleration as you go into the fourth quarter.

根據您對第三季的預測以及對全年的看法，預計進入第四季時會出現一些加速。

Could you give some color on what's going on there with regard to the timing of the orders?

能否詳細說明一下訂單時間方面的情況？

Is this just kind of typical -- some timing differences between some of the shipments in the third quarter and fourth quarter?

這是否只是一種典型現象——第三季和第四季的部分出貨量有時間差異？

And what gives you the confidence in the fourth quarter, please?

請問是什麼讓您對第四季充滿信心？

Chris, what you see is that we are indeed building up momentum.

克里斯，您看到的是我們確實正在積聚勢頭。

I think that's also what you might expect, given what we said we look at 2025 as a growth year.

我想這也是您所期望的，因為我們曾說過我們將 2025 年視為增長年。

And I think what you see over the quarters in 2024 that it is clearly building up over the quarters.

我認為，從 2024 年各季度的情況來看，這一數字顯然在逐季增加。

I think -- and as we said before, we have been building capacity, so we're able to do it.

我認為——正如我們之前所說，我們一直在進行能力建設，因此我們能夠做到這一點。

But the demand is also building up this momentum over the quarters leading into the growth per year in 2025.

但需求也將在接下來幾季中增強這一勢頭，從而實現 2025 年的年度成長。

I should also add that as we've mentioned before, there is also some deferred revenue that we've been building up.

我還要補充一點，正如我們之前提到的，我們還在累積一些遞延收入。

And that means systems that we have shipped that we have not yet recognized revenue for, and the impact for that in the second half is expected to be around a billion.

這意味著我們已經發貨但尚未確認收入的系統，預計對下半年的影響將達到 10 億美元左右。

So that's a substantive number.

這是一個實質的數字。

And that comes either from fast shipments that we have been doing.

這得益於我們一直以來的快速出貨。

And as you know, we no longer intend to fast ship by the end of this year.

如您所知，我們不再打算在今年年底前快速出貨。

So that gives you a bit of a tailwind there.

這給你帶來了一些順風。

But it's also a number of 3,800 tools that we're shipping and that we take revenue for after shipments at site acceptance test for the customer.

但我們運送的工具數量也多達 3,800 件，我們在為客戶進行現場驗收測試後才會收取收入。

And also, as you know, we're in the process of shipping High NA tools that have been shipped, but where we only take revenue at the moment of site acceptance test.

而且如您所知，我們正在運送已發貨的高 NA 工具，但我們僅在現場驗收測試時獲取收入。

So there is a number of reasons why we will recognize revenue for stuff that has already been shipped.

因此，我們基於多種原因確認已出貨貨物的收入。

And I think with that tailwind and with the building up of momentum both in terms of capacity and in terms of demand, we're indeed looking at a very progressive buildup of revenue throughout the year, this year, and leading to over [9 billion] expectation indeed in Q4.

我認為，在這種順風帶動以及產能和需求不斷增強的推動下，我們確實看到今年全年收入將穩步增長，並預計在第四季度實現超過 [90 億] 的預期收入。

That's very helpful color.

這是非常有用的顏色。

Thank you.

謝謝。

As a follow-up, I just wanted to follow-up on some of the comments you spoke about for High NA DRAM.

作為後續行動，我只是想跟進一下您針對高 NA DRAM 所談到的一些評論。

And speaking of (technical difficulty) you think '25, '26 insertion time frame for that.

說到技術難度，您認為 25、26 的插入時間框架是可行的。

Obviously the lead time for those tools are very long.

顯然這些工具的準備時間非常長。

It sounds like the customers are in your labs right now.

聽起來顧客現在就在你的實驗室裡。

What's your anticipation regarding timing on development tools or production tools for that and some idea of perhaps magnitude of tools or layer count for that going forward?

您對開發工具或生產工具的時間安排有何預期？

Well, I think -- maybe I should start.

嗯，我想——也許我應該開始。

I think as we said in the past, we have, I would say, a good backlog for High NA, which means that the customer I was referring to, all our EUV customers have ordered those systems.

我想就像我們過去所說的那樣，我們在高NA方面有大量的積壓訂單，這意味著我所指的客戶，我們所有的EUV客戶都訂購了這些系統。

I think you see that we start to deliver those tools.

我想您已經看到我們開始提供這些工具了。

And of course, this is timely aligned with some of the opportunity to insert.

當然，這與一些插入的機會是及時相一致的。

The addition of the lab basically is good for our customer because this gives them a chance even before that tool hit the ground to get the first data.

增加實驗室基本上對我們的客戶來說是件好事，因為這讓他們有機會在工具落地之前取得第一批數據。

And I think you understand on the technology High NA, the very first data are critical to understand exactly what's the value of the technology.

我認為您了解 High NA 技術，最初的數據對於準確了解該技術的價值至關重要。

So this is why today the wafer that are being exposed are already providing very valuable information to our customer, information they can start to use to refine a bit their insertion scenario and the value that High NA could bring.

所以這就是為什麼今天所展示的晶圓已經為我們的客戶提供了非常有價值的信息，他們可以開始使用這些信息來改進他們的插入方案以及高NA可以帶來的價值。

That's why we've been, I would say, quite excited about the fact that we are generating this data today.

這就是為什麼我們對今天產生這些數據感到非常興奮。

And as I mentioned, I think what we see so far is the data are well meeting our customer expectations.

正如我所提到的，我認為到目前為止我們看到的數據很好地滿足了客戶的期望。

So this is also coming.

所以這也是會發生的。

C.J. Muse, Cantor Fitzgerald.

C.J. Muse、領唱者費茲傑拉。

I guess first question, would love to hear your thoughts around any changes in customer conversations over the last three months, whether foundry logic, and particularly as it relates to your more robust immersion shipment outlook for the second half of this year.

我想第一個問題，我想聽聽您對過去三個月客戶對話變化的看法，無論是代工邏輯，還是與今年下半年更強勁的浸入式出貨前景有關的看法。

Well, the short answer is, no.

嗯，簡短的回答是，不是。

No big change.

沒什麼大變化。

I think the discussion we have with our customer are very consistent.

我認為我們與客戶的討論非常一致。

So a lot of ramp of AI, the ramp beyond that, we don't see any major change.

因此，在人工智慧的許多發展階段以及超越這一階段的階段中，我們並沒有看到任何重大變化。

I think, in fact, I would say our view of the market this quarter is very much the same as the one we had last quarter.

事實上，我認為我們對本季市場的看法與上個季度非常相似。

I think the big difference, as you have seen, is that we have made progress with booking on some of the segments, answering maybe one of the big question we got from all of you last quarter.

我認為，正如您所看到的，最大的不同是，我們在某些​​細分市場的預訂方面取得了進展，這也許回答了上個季度大家向我們提出的一個大問題。

But the view of the market for Roger, for me, is not changing.

但對我來說，市場對羅傑的看法並沒有改變。

I think the discussion are very constant.

我認為討論非常持續。

(multiple speakers)

（多位發言者）

When it comes to immersion, your other question, we continue immersion to continue to be strong, even though in the total mix, we do believe that the mix in the second half, there will be a lot more dry.

當涉及浸入時，您的另一個問題是，我們繼續保持浸入的強勁勢頭，即使在總體混合中，我們確實相信下半年的混合會更加乾燥。

So in the deep EUV mix, you will see the dry component becoming more significant than it was in the first half.

因此，在深度 EUV 組合中，您會看到乾燥成分變得比上半年更重要。

But overall we do believe that immersion will continue to be strong also in the second half of the year.

但總體而言，我們確實相信沉浸感在下半年仍將保持強勁。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And as a quick follow-up, can you speak to the 3,800?

作為一個快速的後續問題，您可以和 3,800 人談談嗎？

You talked about majority of shipments in the second half of this year.

您談到了今年下半年的大部分出貨量。

Think about the impact to gross margins and ASPs second half '24, and then kind of same question for all of 2025.

想想對24年下半年毛利率和ASP的影響，然後對2025年全年產生同樣的問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

So indeed, as Christophe said, it will be -- the majority of EUV tools in the second half will be 3,800.

因此，正如 Christophe 所說，下半年大多數 EUV 工具將是 3,800 個。

And I should add, as you know, C.J., and we talked about this before, that we have a ramp schedule where the initial 3800s are not yet up to full configuration.

我應該補充一點，C.J.，你也知道，我們之前談過這個問題，我們有一個產量爬升時間表，其中最初的 3800 尚未達到完全配置。

So gradually, we will get the 3800s up to the full specification of 220 wafer per hour.

因此，我們將逐步使 3800 達到每小時 220 片晶圓的完整規格。

It also means that not all of the 3800s that will ship in the second half of this year will command the higher ASP, because some revenue is deferred up until the point where the tools have been upgraded to that higher specification.

這也意味著，今年下半年出貨的 3,800 並非全都擁有更高的 ASP，因為部分收入被推遲到工具升級到更高規格之後。

So we'll not get the full tailwind, I would say, of the strong 3800 pricing in the second half, but it's definitely going to help.

因此，我想說，我們不會完全享受到 3800 強勁定價帶來的推動力，但它肯定會有所幫助。

But you will see a stronger effect of that in 2025, where of course, the share of the 3800 is going to be even stronger.

但到 2025 年你會看到這種影響會更加明顯，當然，3800 的份額會更加強勁。

And there all the tools essentially will be in final specification.

所有工具基本上都符合最終規格。

And we will also get some deferred revenue that will be recognized in (technical difficulty) from tools that have been shipped in 2024.

我們還將獲得一些遞延收入，這些收入將因 2024 年已發貨的工具（技術難度）而確認。

So if you look at the gross margin for the second half, of course, this is one element in there.

因此，如果你看看下半年的毛利率，當然，這是其中一個因素。

Of course, we'll have a slight and that's a positive, I would say.

當然，我們會有一點進步，我想說，這是正面的。

And then we have a higher volume, obviously, in 2025 -- in the second half of 2024, as we just calculated, that's also a positive.

然後，顯然，到 2025 年——也就是 2024 年下半年，我們的銷量會更高，正如我們剛剛計算的那樣，這也是一個積極的方面。

A slightly negative is that in the DVP mix, as I mentioned before, the dry component is going to be more visible, right?

稍微不利的是，在 DVP 混合物中，正如我之前提到的，乾燥成分會更加明顯，對嗎？

So that's a bit of a drag on the gross margin.

所以這對毛利率有一定的拖累作用。

And then we also -- in the second half, we're going to have the first revenue recognition of the High NA tools.

然後，我們也將在下半年首次確認高 NA 工具的收入。

And of course, on the one hand, that's great, because that means that we have the sign off of customers on the tool, as we expect, in the second half of this year.

當然，一方面，這很棒，因為這意味著正如我們所預期的那樣，我們將在今年下半年獲得客戶對該工具的批准。

But you also know that the gross margin on that tool is not great.

但您也知道該工具的毛利率並不高。

So that will also be a drag.

所以這也會是個拖累。

So that's the reason why for the second half of this year, we expect a slightly lower gross margin than we expect -- than we were able to report in the first half.

因此，我們預計今年下半年的毛利率將比上半年略低。

Didier Scemama, Bank of America.

美國銀行的迪迪埃·斯凱瑪（Didier Scemama）。

First on High NA, maybe for Christophe. (technical difficulty) good news that good stuff that you told us about transistor density and the quality of the imaging on High NA, how are your conversations going with one of your customers that historically was a bit reluctant with that technology?

對 Christophe 來說，這可能是 High NA 的第一名。 (技術難題)好消息，您告訴我們有關晶體管密度和高 NA 成像品質的好消息，您與一位過去對該技術有點猶豫的客戶的溝通進展如何？

I understand they came to visit you in Veldhoven, which is reasonably unusual.

我知道他們來費爾德霍芬探望你，這相當不尋常。

Just tell us a little bit about the feedback you got from that visit, whether you think the bid-ask spread between what they want and what you can deliver, how is that progressing.

請稍微告訴我們一下您在那次訪問中得到的回饋，您認為他們想要的和您能提供的之間的買賣價差是多少，以及進展如何。

And I've got a follow-up.

我還有後續行動。

Yeah.

是的。

So first I'd like to say I think we never qualify any customer as being reluctant for High NA.

因此，首先我想說，我認為我們永遠不會認為任何客戶不願意接受高 NA。

I think this information came from somewhere else.

我認為這些資訊來自其他地方。

I think the short answer is the data generation help.

我認為簡短的回答是數據生成幫助。

Again, we are exposing important wafer.

再一次，我們正在揭露重要的晶圓。

We told you in the past, we are happy to get that amount of backlog on High NA because our customers were showing the trust in the technology without having any data at hand.

我們過去曾告訴過您，我們很高興在 High NA 上獲得如此大量的積壓，因為我們的客戶在手頭上沒有任何數據的情況下表現出對該技術的信任。

So they were basically following our, I would say, analysis or our promise that this will help them moving forward.

所以我想說，他們基本上遵循了我們的分析或承諾，這將幫助他們前進。

And they have been willing to invest for R&D quite heavily and by the way, even down pay some of those systems.

他們願意在研發上投入大量資金，甚至為一些系統支付首付。

So this has a huge commitment from the industry.

因此，這需要業界做出巨大的承諾。

I think the data is helping tremendously because our customer can see data.

我認為數據有很大幫助，因為我們的客戶可以看到數據。

I think that can be used also for potentially their customer to have a much better discussion around High NA.

我認為這也可以用來讓他們的潛在客戶就高 NA 進行更好的討論。

So I think the dynamic is good.

所以我認為這種動態很好。

And I would say the discussion is getting a lot more concrete.

我想說討論正在變得更加具體。

And I think we need to give a few more months to that discussion so that everyone, based on data this time, have a bit of a better idea of what could be done moving forward with High NA and how quickly.

我認為我們需要再花幾個月的時間來討論這個問題，以便每個人根據這次的數據，對如何快速推進 High NA 有更好的了解。

My follow-up is a bit of just picking your brains, and I'm sure you've got like armies of PhDs running simulations.

我的後續行動只是想向你們請教，我相信你們已經擁有大批博士在進行模擬。

But if we were to assume that there is some sort of AI, PC and smartphone refresh cycle pushing volumes for those combined markets to maybe a high single-digit volume growth in calendar year '25 or calendar year '26, do you think that there is enough capacity in DRAM, maybe NAND, and maybe to a lesser degree in logic to deliver that potential uplifting volumes?

但是，如果我們假設人工智慧、個人電腦和智慧型手機的某種更新周期會推動這些綜合市場的銷量在 2025 日曆年或 2026 日曆年實現高個位數的銷量增長，您是否認為 DRAM、NAND 或邏輯上是否有足夠的容量來實現潛在的銷量提升？

Well, I think everyone is maybe trying to answer that question.

好吧，我想每個人可能都在嘗試回答這個問題。

I think it's very difficult to answer the question.

我認為這個問題很難回答。

I think what we have seen with AI is a major investment from many companies in supercomputer in the ability basically to train model.

我認為我們在人工智慧領域看到的是許多公司對超級電腦進行了大量投資，基本上是為了訓練模型。

What we still miss in AI, I think, is the emergence of end product.

我認為，我們在人工智慧方面仍然缺少的是最終產品的出現。

So I think today, there's not much revenue made on AI.

所以我認為今天人工智慧帶來的收入並不多。

There's just a lot of investment.

只是有大量投資。

What we see is that still that investment require a lot of capacity.

我們看到的是，這些投資仍然需要大量的產能。

I think you have seen some of our customers announcing also more capacity to be built before 2028.

我想你已經看到我們的一些客戶也宣布將在 2028 年之前建造更多產能。

And as I said before, if the rest of the application were to recover, what has been done so far, which is to reallocate some of the capacity to [HBM], may become more difficult.

正如我之前所說，如果應用程式的其餘部分要恢復，那麼到目前為止所做的將部分容量重新分配給 [HBM] 可能會變得更加困難。

So overall, I think, we still expect as the rest of the market recover to see a need for more capacity.

因此總體而言，我認為，我們仍然預期隨著其他市場的復甦，將需要更多的產能。

And that's, I think, also true for DRAM.

我認為這對 DRAM 也是如此。

Now to tell you at what speed, I think, this is still a bit difficult.

現在要告訴你以什麼樣的速度，我想，這還是有點困難。

I think we said it a few times.

我想我們已經說過幾次了。

I think the recovery is something we are looking at every day and there is also a lot of uncertainty.

我認為復甦是我們每天都在關注的事情，同時也存在著許多不確定性。

So this is why you still see us being, I would say, strong in our view of 2025, but also a bit cautious because there's still a lot of uncertainty around those opportunities.

所以這就是為什麼你仍然看到我們對 2025 年的展望很強勁，但同時也有點謹慎，因為這些機會仍然存在著許多不確定性。

Mehdi Hosseini, Susquehanna.

梅赫迪·胡賽尼 (Mehdi Hosseini)，薩斯奎哈納。

Two follow-up.

兩項後續行動。

Christophe, is there anything you can share with me to give me confidence that 3,800 is going to finally be on track?

克里斯托夫，您能告訴我一些什麼訊息，讓我相信 3,800 最終會步入正軌嗎？

If I go back to your '22 Analyst Day, the transition was supposed to happen in '23, got pushed back to early '24 and now it's a big hockey stick coming with the 3800E shipment.

如果我回顧 22 年分析師日，過渡本應在 23 年發生，但被推遲到 24 年初，現在它是隨著 3800E 的出貨而來的一根大曲棍球棒。

Is there anything you can share with us in terms of throughput or any other thing that would help us with incremental confidence?

您能與我們分享關於吞吐量或其他任何有助於我們增強信心的資訊嗎？

And I have a follow-up.

我還有一個後續問題。

Yeah.

是的。

So I think there's two parts of that.

所以我認為這有兩個部分。

I think the technology part where we are busy here in ASML to demonstrate basically the performance of the tool.

我認為我們在 ASML 這裡忙於的技術部分主要是展示該工具的性能。

We have seen very big progress there.

我們在那裡看到了巨大的進步。

We have measured 195 wafer per hours on the tool.

我們已測量出該工具每小時可產出 195 個晶圓。

We expect to see the final specification being measured also in the coming weeks.

我們預計將在未來幾週內看到最終規格的測量。

We don't see any hard showstopper, so we just see some work to be done.

我們沒有看到任何重大障礙，所以我們只看到有一些工作要做。

With the customer, I think, some of the delay was also a choice we made to support the demand in the previous year.

對客戶來說，我認為，部分延遲也是我們為了滿足去年的需求而做出的選擇。

So if you remember, 2022 was a year where we saw a very strong demand from all customers on EUV.

所以如果你還記得的話，2022 年是我們看到所有客戶對 EUV 的需求非常強勁的一年。

And we thought this would be wise to slow down a bit the ramp to the next product to not disrupt that demand.

我們認為，放慢下一個產品的上市速度是明智之舉，以免影響需求。

At this point of time, the tool also is getting at customer.

此時，該工具也正在走向客戶手中。

We made a choice, has been explained before, to ship it initially at lower throughput, so that the qualification could start earlier at our customer, so that they can be ready basically for high volume manufacturing next year when I think this is the real expectation for this tool to run manufacturing.

正如之前所解釋的，我們做出了一個選擇，最初以較低的吞吐量發貨，以便我們的客戶可以更早開始認證，這樣他們就可以為明年的大批量生產做好準備，我認為這是該工具運行製造的真正期望。

So from my point of view, maybe we said that the biggest element to help you is that technology wise, there is no concern at all.

所以從我的角度來看，也許我們說對你有幫助的最大因素就是技術面，完全沒有必要擔心。

And when it comes to qualification with our customer, I think this is underway.

當談到與客戶的資格認證時，我認為這正在進行中。

And of course we are going to use the next few months to mature the system.

當然，我們將利用接下來的幾個月時間來完善這個系統。

It always takes a few months to do that.

這總是需要幾個月的時間才能完成。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And for Roger, I think if I'm not mistaken, in the last earning conference call, you talked about a EUR700 million of fast shipment.

至於羅傑，如果我沒記錯的話，在上次盈利電話會議中，您談到了 7 億歐元的快速發貨。

Did I hear you correctly that you said it's up to EUR1 billion now?

我沒聽錯，您說現在已經達到 10 億歐元了？

Is that the right figure for fast shipment?

這對於快速發貨來說正確嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

I think there are different numbers, Mehdi, and that's why I just lumped it together.

我覺得有不同的數字，梅迪，這就是我將它們歸為一類的原因。

So, as I mentioned, we have a fast shipment effect, and your memory serves you well.

因此，正如我所提到的那樣，我們具有快速的發貨效果，並且您的記憶力很好。

But in addition to that, we also have 3,800 that we shipped in H1, but recognizing revenue in H2.

除此之外，我們在上半年還出貨了 3,800 台，但在下半年才確認收入。

And also we have High NA tools that with the long lead times and given this is a very new technology, we're going to recognize revenue not upon shipment, but upon SAC.

而且我們擁有高NA工具，其交貨時間很長，考慮到這是一項非常新的技術，我們不是在發貨時確認收入，而是在SAC時確認收入。

And that combination of things that we expect around 1 billion to be added to the -- to be added to the revenue.

我們預計，綜合以上因素，我們的收入將增加約 10 億美元。

So deferred revenue that we expect to see in -- to see recorded in revenue in the second half.

因此，我們預計遞延收入將在下半年計入收入中。

So that's the difference.

這就是差別所在。

It's not just a fast shipment, but also the other dynamics that I just talked about.

這不僅僅是快速的發貨，還包括我剛才談到的其他動力。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande。

Yeah, hi.

是的，你好。

Thank you for letting me on.

謝謝你讓我加入。

My first question, I mean, clearly there was earlier questions on this, but I'm trying to going to ask it another way, which is that you don't have a view on where you're going to land in 25 years.

我的第一個問題是，顯然之前已經有人提出過這個問題，但我想換一種方式來問，那就是你不知道 25 年後你會身在何處。

And one can understand that given deep EUV, et cetera, they have much shorter lead times.

我們可以理解，鑑於深度 EUV 等技術，它們的交貨時間要短得多。

But on EUV itself, given where the lead times on EUV are, you probably have a view on how many tools you're going to build into EUV already.

但就 EUV 本身而言，考慮到 EUV 的交付週期，您可能已經知道要將多少工具建置到 EUV 中。

So, I mean, my question would be, what is the capacity you have for EUV next year?

所以，我的問題是，明年你們的 EUV 產能是多少？

And I mean are you building fully to that capacity or are you going to be building less than that capacity at this point?

我的意思是，您是完全按照這個容量進行建設，還是目前只建造低於這個容量的設施？

And I have a quick follow-up.

我還有一個快速的跟進。

An A for effort, Sandeep, for sure in asking the question.

Sandeep，在提出這個問題時，努力肯定會得到 A 的評價。

But we're going to stick to our guns here, also on EUV.

但我們會堅持自己的立場，在 EUV 方面也是如此。

Wait until the Capital Markets Day.

等到資本市場日。

There we will give you a lot more color and context.

我們將為您提供更多色彩和背景。

We have been building capacity for EUV.

我們一直在建造 EUV 產能。

As you know, we are working towards a capacity level of 90 in the '25, '26 time frame.

如您所知，我們正努力在 25、26 年期間將容量水準提高到 90。

So we have been driving up capacity quite a bit.

因此，我們已經大大提高了產能。

So there is quite some room that we have to accommodate a demand on EUV.

因此，我們還有很大空間可以滿足 EUV 的需求。

But we are not going to give any more color as to what our expectations for EUV sales are going to be.

但我們不會透露有關 EUV 銷售的更多預期。

In November of 2025, we'll give you a more concrete picture.

2025 年 11 月，我們將為您提供更具體的圖像。

Just reiterating, between 30 billion and 40 billion and it will not be the low point.

我重申一下，300 億到 400 億之間不會是最低點。

I think that's the expectation that we've articulated before and that's where we still are.

我認為這是我們之前表達的期望，而且我們現在仍然如此。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Maybe stepping back a little bit.

也許稍微退後一步。

I mean, there have been a lot of conversations in the industry about that whether litho is going to continue the kind of scaling it has done over the last 20 years, given the challenges with shrinking here from the current level.

我的意思是，考慮到從當前水準縮小所面臨的挑戰，業界已經有很多關於光刻技術是否能繼續像過去 20 年那樣擴大規模的討論。

So maybe in terms of the adoption of High NA and litho itself, Christophe, maybe you can make any comments on what your interactions with the foundries and the memory companies have been in terms of using litho as a critical driver of the scaling in semiconductors over the next few years because there has been a lot more conversation in the industry about the limitations of litho.

因此，就採用高NA和光刻技術本身而言，Christophe，也許您可以就您與代工廠和記憶體公司的互動發表一些評論，說明如何將光刻技術作為未來幾年半導體規模擴大的關鍵驅動力，因為業內已經有很多關於光刻技術局限性的討論。

Well, I think it's two things that are well known.

嗯，我認為這是兩件眾所周知的事情。

So first, I think you're hinting to it.

所以首先，我認為你在暗示這一點。

I think if we look at the last few years, the scaling, the shrink is slowing down.

我認為，如果我們回顧過去幾年，擴張和萎縮的速度正在放緩。

I think this is not new.

我認為這並不是什麼新鮮事。

And for a long time, litho had an impact on that.

長期以來，平版印刷對此產生了影響。

I think at this point of time, it's more fundamentals, basically, and related to all the innovation you need to put in place in order to be able to scale the transistor.

我認為在現階段，它基本上是更基礎的，並且與為了擴大晶體管的規模所需實施的所有創新相關。

Now, this being said, scaling is slowing down.

現在，話雖如此，但擴展速度正在放緩。

So that's many years already.

那已經是很多年了。

What is not slowing down is the need for transistor density.

但晶體管密度的需求卻沒有減緩。

So that curve, which is more slow practically, is not slowing down.

因此，實際上較慢的曲線並沒有減速。

So customers are asking more and more density at the same speed they have done for many, many years.

因此，客戶要求的密度越來越大，速度也多年來一直如此。

And as scaling slow down, I would say shrink become even more valuable because shrink is still today the best way to save cost on density.

而且隨著擴展速度減慢，我想說收縮變得更有價值，因為收縮至今仍是節省密度成本的最佳方式。

Everything else require you to just build more transistor with more steps.

其餘一切都需要您透過更多步驟建造更多晶體管。

So shrink today, and that's true today, it's going to be true to (technical difficulty) is still the best way to reduce cost.

因此，今天縮減，今天確實如此，這將是真實的（技術難度）仍然是降低成本的最佳方法。

And sometimes, we say the less you can shrink, the more the value of shrink is going to be.

有時，我們會說收縮得越少，收縮的價值就越大。

That's one thing.

這是一回事。

The other thing, of course, is if you shrink less, you need more volume.

當然，另一件事是，如果收縮得較少，則需要更大的體積。

And more volume can be obtained by exposing more wafer or exposing more stack on the wafer.

而透過曝光更多的晶圓或在晶圓上曝光更多的堆疊，則可以獲得更大的體積。

But in both cases, this drive also more lithography.

但在這兩種情況下，這也推動了更多的光刻技術的發展。

So we never really feared the reduction of shrink because this was driving volume.

因此，我們從未真正擔心收縮的減少，因為這是推動銷售的因素。

This is one of the reasons why we have been building capacity.

這就是我們一直致力於能力建構的原因之一。

And at the same time, we know that every step we will be able to make in lithography will have huge value for our customers.

同時，我們知道我們在光刻技術方面取得的每一步進步都將為我們的客戶帶來巨大的價值。

So this is something also we believe continues to be important.

因此，我們認為這仍然非常重要。

And of course most probably over time and we'll also talk a bit about that in November, we will look at more ways to help our customer to drive this density basically up.

當然，很有可能隨著時間的推移，我們也會在 11 月談論這個問題，我們將尋找更多方法來幫助我們的客戶提高這個密度。

So I'd say, no news there.

所以我想說，那裡沒有新聞。

Scaling is slowing down.

擴展速度正在放緩。

It's not a difficult thing to say for a litho person, it's just reality.

對石版畫藝術家來說這並不是什麼難事，這就是現實。

Density does not.

密度則不然。

Therefore a need for more volume, more value for shrink.

因此需要更大的體積、更大的收縮價值。

And I will say, some opportunity to look at other applications to help our customers to guess this density at cost.

我想說的是，我們有機會研究其他應用程序，以幫助我們的客戶猜測這個成本密度。

We'll talk a lot about that in November, I like to say, because I think it's one of the things we want to explain again, everyone.

我想說，我們會在 11 月詳細討論這個問題，因為我認為這是我們想再次向大家解釋的事情之一。

All right.

好的。

We have time for one last question.

我們還有時間回答最後一個問題。

If you were unable to get through on this call and still have questions, please feel free to contact the ASML Investor Relations department with your question.

如果您無法接通本次電話且仍有疑問，請隨時聯絡 ASML 投資者關係部諮詢您的問題。

Now, operator, may we have the last caller, please?

接線員，現在我們可以接聽最後一位來電嗎？

Aditya Metuku, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的 Aditya Metuku。

Yeah.

是的。

Good morning.

早安.

Good afternoon, guys.

大家下午好。

Thank you for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

So, firstly, just a clarification on your backlog.

首先，我來澄清一下您的積壓工作。

I just wondered if you could give us a sense for how big domestic Chinese demand is as a part of your backlog today, just to get a sense for the level to which it may contribute to revenues next year.

我只是想知道，您是否可以告訴我們，目前中國國內需求在您目前的積壓訂單中所佔的比例有多大，以便了解它對明年收入的貢獻程度。

And secondly, just on China again, there's a lot of rumors flying around, and I suspect the rules that are in place today are the result of some give and take in different companies, different stakeholders pushing in different ways.

其次，再次談到中國，有許多謠言四處流傳，我懷疑目前實施的規則是不同公司、不同利害關係人以不同方式推動的結果。

But just to hear it from the horse's mouth, can you give us some idea of what the US government would ideally like you to ship to China regardless of the rules that are in place today?

但只是為了從知情人士那裡得到消息，你能否告訴我們，無論目前有哪些規則，美國政府最希望你們向中國運送什麼？

And how does that compare to what you're shipping to China today?

與您今天運往中國的貨物相比如何？

Any color on that would be helpful.

任何顏色都會有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Adithya, on the backlog, I think we've said it before that our backlog is a little bit north of 20%, and that's still the case.

Adithya，關於積壓訂單，我想我們之前說過，我們的積壓訂單略高於 20%，現在仍然如此。

So that's on the Chinese share in our backlog.

這就是我們積壓訂單中的中國份額。

On the China rumors, we're not going to add, I think, to the rumors that are already out there.

關於中國的謠言，我認為我們不會對已經存在的謠言進行補充。

I think this is a negotiation between governments.

我認為這是政府之間的談判。

Companies are not at the table.

公司並未參與談判。

And we live by -- we obviously stick to what we're allowed to do and we're not going to speculate about what government A might want to see in the rules and what government B might want to have in the rules.

我們恪守原則——我們顯然堅持我們被允許做的事情，我們不會去猜測 A 政府可能希望在規則中看到什麼以及 B 政府可能希望在規則中看到什麼。

I don't think that's going to add to any clarity.

我認為這不會增加任何清晰度。

I think what is very important to understand and Christophe said it at the beginning of the call, the way we look at the demand for our tools is not from a specific geography.

我認為，非常重要的一點是要理解，正如 Christophe 在通話開始時所說的那樣，我們看待工具需求的方式並不是從特定的地理位置出發。

In this case, China.

在這種情況下，就是中國。

We look at -- and that's the way we model our sales, medium term and long term.

我們觀察——這就是我們建立中期和長期銷售模型的方式。

We look at what is the global demand for wafers and whether those wafers are being produced in country X or country Y.

我們關注的是全球對晶圓的需求，以及這些晶圓是在 X 國還是 Y 國生產的。

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

到最後，這並不重要。

And I think that is very important to recognize in looking at your model.

我認為在觀察你的模型時認識到這一點非常重要。

We don't have a specific China element in our models.

我們的模型中沒有特定的中國元素。

It is the global demand for wafers that drives our modeling.

正是全球對晶圓的需求推動了我們的建模。

All right.

好的。

Now on behalf of ASML, I'd like to thank you all for joining us today.

現在，我謹代表 ASML 感謝大家今天的出席。

Operator, if you could formally conclude the call, I'd appreciate it.

接線員，如果您能正式結束通話，我將不勝感激。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This concludes the ASML 2024 second quarter financial results conference call.

ASML 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議到此結束。

Thank you for participating.

感謝您的參與。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。