德州儀器 (TXN) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Texas Instruments fourth quarter 2023 earnings release conference call. I'm Dave Pahl, head of Investor Relations, and I'm joined by our Chief Financial Officer Rafael Lizardi.

歡迎參加德州儀器 2023 年第四季財報發布電話會議。我是投資人關係主管戴夫‧帕爾 (Dave Pahl)，與我一起出席活動的還有我們的財務長拉斐爾‧利扎迪 (Rafael Lizardi)。

For any of you who missed the release, you can find it on our website at ti.com/ir. This call is being broadcast live over the web and can be accessed through our website. In addition, today's call is being recorded and will be available via replay on our website.

對於錯過此次發布的人，您可以在我們的網站 ti.com/ir 上找到它。本次通話正在網路直播，可透過我們的網站存取。此外，今天的電話會議正在錄音，可透過我們的網站重播。

This call will include forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties that could cause TI's results to differ materially from management's current expectations. We encourage you to review the notice regarding forward-looking statements contained in the earnings release published today as well as TI's most recent SEC filings for a more complete description.

本次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述，其中涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致 TI 的結果與管理層目前的預期有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看今天發布的收益報告以及 TI 最新的 SEC 文件中包含的有關前瞻性聲明的通知，以獲得更完整的描述。

I'd like to provide some information that's important for your calendars. Next week, on Thursday, February 1, at 10 a.m. Central time, we'll have our capital management call. Similar to what we've done in the past, Rafael and I will summarize our progress and provide some insight into our business and our approach to capital allocation as we prepare for the opportunity ahead.

我想提供一些對您的日曆很重要的資訊。下週，即 2 月 1 日星期四，中部時間上午 10 點，我們將召開資本管理電話會議。與我們過去所做的類似，拉斐爾和我將總結我們的進展，並對我們的業務和資本配置方法提供一些見解，為未來的機會做好準備。

Moving on, today, we'll provide the following updates. First, I'll start with a quick overview of the quarter. Next, I'll provide insight into fourth quarter revenue results with some details of what we're seeing with respect to our end markets. I'll then provide an annual summary of revenue breakout by end market. And lastly, Rafael will cover the financial results and our guidance for the first quarter of 2024.

接下來，今天，我們將提供以下更新。首先，我將簡單回顧一下本季的情況。接下來，我將深入了解第四季度的收入結果，並提供一些有關終端市場的詳細資訊。然後，我將提供按終端市場劃分的年度收入摘要。最後，拉斐爾將介紹 2024 年第一季的財務表現和預期。

Starting with a quick overview of the quarter:

首先簡單回顧一下本季：

Revenue was $4.1 billion, a decrease of 10% sequentially and 13% from the same quarter a year ago. Analog revenue declined 12% year over year, and Embedded Processing declined 10%. Our "Other" segment declined 25% from the year-ago quarter.

營收為 41 億美元，較上一季下降 10%，比去年同期下降 13%。模擬收入年減 12％，嵌入式處理收入下降 10％。我們的「其他」部門較去年同期下降了 25%。

Now I'll provide some insight into our fourth quarter revenue by end market. Our results reflect increasing weakness in industrial and a sequential decline in automotive, as customers work to reduce their inventory levels.

現在，我將按終端市場介紹我們第四季的收入。我們的業績反映出，由於客戶努力降低庫存水平，工業領域疲軟加劇，汽車領域連續下滑。

Similar to last quarter, I'll focus on sequential performance, as it's more informative at this time.

與上一季類似，我將專注於連續表現，因為此時它更具參考價值。

First, the industrial market was down mid-teens as we saw that increasing weakness.

首先，我們看到工業市場疲軟趨勢加劇，跌幅達到百分之十左右。

The automotive market was down mid-single digits after three and a half years of very strong growth.

汽車市場在經歷了三年半的強勁成長後，出現中個位數下滑。

Personal electronics was about flat.

個人電子產品銷售量基本持平。

And next, communications equipment was down low-single digits.

其次，通訊設備的銷售量下降了個位數。

And lastly, enterprise systems grew low-single digits.

最後，企業系統成長率為個位數。

In addition, as we do at the end of each calendar year, I'll describe our revenue by end market. As a percentage of revenue for 2023, industrial was 40%, automotive was 34%, personal electronics 15%, communications equipment 5%, enterprise systems 4%, and other was 2%.

此外，正如我們在每個日曆年末所做的那樣，我將按終端市場描述我們的收入。以 2023 年的收入百分比計算，工業為 40%，汽車為 34%，個人電子產品為 15%，通訊設備為 5%，企業系統為 4%，其他為 2%。

In 2023, industrial and automotive combined made up 74% of TI's revenue, up about nine percentage points from 2022 and up from 42% in 2013. We see good opportunities in all of our markets, but we place additional strategic emphasis on industrial and automotive. Our industrial and automotive customers are increasingly turning to analog and embedded technologies to make their end products more reliable, more affordable and lower in power. These trends have resulted and will continue to result in growing chip content per application, which will drive faster growth compared to our other markets.

2023 年，工業和汽車市場合計佔 TI 收入的 74%，比 2022 年成長約 9 個百分點，比 2013 年的 42% 成長。我們的工業和汽車客戶越來越多地轉向模擬和嵌入式技術，以使他們的最終產品更可靠、更實惠、更低功耗。這些趨勢已經導致並將繼續導致每個應用的晶片內容不斷增長，這將推動我們相對於其他市場更快的成長。

Rafael will now review profitability, capital management and our outlook.

拉斐爾現在將回顧獲利能力、資本管理和我們的展望。

Thanks, Dave, and good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝，戴夫，大家下午好。

As Dave mentioned, fourth quarter revenue was $4.1 billion.

正如戴夫所提到的，第四季的收入為 41 億美元。

Gross profit in the quarter was $2.4 billion, or 60% of revenue. From a year ago, gross profit decreased primarily due to lower revenue, higher manufacturing costs associated with planned capacity expansions, and reduced factory loadings. Gross profit margin decreased 650 basis points.

本季毛利為 24 億美元，佔營收的 60%。與去年同期相比，毛利下降主要是由於收入下降、計劃產能擴張導致的製造成本上升以及工廠負荷減少。毛利率下降650個基點。

Operating expenses in the quarter were $898 million, up 4% from a year ago and about as expected. On a trailing 12-month basis, operating expenses were $3.7 billion, or 21% of revenue.

本季營運費用為 8.98 億美元，較去年同期成長 4%，與預期大致相符。過去 12 個月，營業費用為 37 億美元，佔營收的 21%。

Operating profit was $1.5 billion in the quarter, or 38% of revenue. Operating profit was down 30% from the year-ago quarter.

本季營業利潤為 15 億美元，佔營收的 38%。營業利潤較去年同期下降30%。

Net income in the fourth quarter was $1.4 billion, or $1.49 per share. Earnings per share included a 3-cent benefit for items that were not in our original guidance.

第四季淨收入為 14 億美元，即每股 1.49 美元。每股收益包括我們原始指導中未包含的項目的 3 美分收益。

Let me now comment on our capital management results, starting with our cash generation.

現在，讓我評論一下我們的資本管理結果，從現金產生開始。

Cash flow from operations was $1.9 billion in the quarter. Capital expenditures were $1.1 billion in the quarter.

本季經營現金流為 19 億美元。本季資本支出為 11 億美元。

In the quarter, we paid $1.2 billion in dividends and repurchased $65 million of our stock. We also increased our dividend per share by 5% in the fourth quarter, marking our 20th consecutive year of dividend increases. In total, we have returned $4.9 billion in the past 12 months to owners.

本季度，我們支付了 12 億美元的股息，並回購了價值 6,500 萬美元的股票。我們還在第四季將每股股息提高了 5%，這是我們連續第 20 年增加股息。總體而言，我們在過去 12 個月內向業主返還了 49 億美元。

Our balance sheet remains strong with $8.6 billion of cash and short-term investments at the end of the fourth quarter. Total debt outstanding was $11.3 billion with a weighted average coupon of 3.5%.

我們的資產負債表依然強勁，截至第四季末，現金和短期投資為 86 億美元。未償還債務總額為 113 億美元，加權平均票面利率為 3.5%。

Inventory at the end of the quarter was $4 billion, up $91 million from the prior quarter, and days were 219, up 14 days sequentially.

季末庫存為 40 億美元，較上一季增加 9,100 萬美元，庫存天數為 219 天，較上一季增加 14 天。

Now let's look at some of these results for the year.

現在讓我們來看看今年的一些成果。

In 2023, cash flow from operations was $6.4 billion. Capital expenditures were $5.1 billion. Free cash flow for 2023 was $1.3 billion, or 8% of revenue. Our free cash flow reflects the strength of our business model as well as our decisions to invest in 300mm manufacturing assets and inventory to support our overall objective to maximize long-term free cash flow per share, which we believe is the primary driver of long-term value.

2023年，經營現金流為64億美元。資本支出為 51 億美元。 2023 年的自由現金流為 13 億美元，佔營收的 8%。我們的自由現金流反映了我們商業模式的實力以及我們投資300毫米製造資產和庫存的決策，以支持我們最大化每股長期自由現金流的總體目標，我們相信這是長期價值的主要驅動力。

Turning to our outlook for the first quarter, we expect TI revenue in the range of $3.45 billion to $3.75 billion and earnings per share to be in the range of $0.96 to $1.16.

回顧第一季的展望，我們預計 TI 營收將在 34.5 億美元至 37.5 億美元之間，每股收益將在 0.96 美元至 1.16 美元之間。

We now expect our 2024 effective tax rate to be about 13%.

我們現在預計 2024 年的有效稅率約為 13%。

In closing, we will stay focused in the areas that add value in the long term. We continue to invest in our competitive advantages, which are manufacturing and technology, a broad product portfolio, reach of our channels, and diverse and long-lived positions.

最後，我們將繼續專注於長期增值的領域。我們持續投資於我們的競爭優勢，即製造和技術、廣泛的產品組合、通路覆蓋範圍以及多元化和長期的地位。

We will continue to strengthen these advantages through disciplined capital allocation and by focusing on the best opportunities, which we believe will enable us to continue to deliver free cash flow per share growth over the long term.

我們將繼續透過嚴格的資本配置和關注最佳機會來加強這些優勢，我們相信這將使我們能夠在長期內繼續實現每股自由現金流的成長。

With that, let me turn it back to Dave.

說完這些，讓我把話題轉回給戴夫。

Thanks, Rafael. Operator, you can now open the lines for questions. In order to provide as many of you as possible an opportunity to ask your questions, please limit yourself to a single question. After our response, we'll provide you an opportunity for an additional follow-up. Operator?

謝謝，拉斐爾。接線員，您現在可以開通問答線路了。為了讓盡可能多的人有機會提出問題，請將問題限制在一個問題上。我們回覆後，會提供您進一步跟進的機會。操作員？

(Operator Instructions). Our first question comes from the line of Toshiya Hari with Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指令）。我們的第一個問題來自高盛的Toshiya Hari。

My first question is on your Q1 outlook. I think at the midpoint, you're guiding revenue down 12% or so, which is clearly well below what we consider to be typical seasonality. Any end markets or regions or device types that you can call out that's driving that view? Or is it broad-based weakness across all applications?

我的第一個問題是關於您對第一季的展望。我認為，在中間點，你預計收入將下降 12％ 左右，這顯然遠低於我們認為的典型季節性水平。您能指出哪些終端市場、地區或設備類型推動了這種觀點嗎？或者說是所有應用程式都存在普遍的弱點？

Yes, I'll take that, Toshiya. Thanks for the question. In fourth quarter, we did see weakness in industrial -- increasing weakness there. We saw the sequential decline in automotive. And as the guide would suggest, we believe that we'll just continue to operate in a weak environment and one where customers are continuing to rebalance their inventories overall. So -- but nothing specific to comment on. Do you have a follow-up?

是的，我接受，Toshiya。謝謝你的提問。在第四季度，我們確實看到了工業領域的疲軟，而且疲軟趨勢正在加劇。我們看到汽車產業的連續下滑。正如指南建議的那樣，我們相信我們將繼續在疲軟的環境中運營，並且客戶將繼續整體重新平衡其庫存。所以——但沒有什麼具體值得評論的。你有後續行動嗎？

I do. Just on gross margins, I think you guys did a good job in explaining what's driving it. Still, I'm a little bit surprised with the year-over-year kind of drop through, if you will, gross margin dollars essentially dropping as much as your revenue. I understand the underutilization, the increase in depreciation. But what are you seeing from a pricing perspective? Is it more pricing than volume that's driving the revenue decline and the decline in gross margins? Or if you can kind of speak to your strategy from a pricing perspective, what you're seeing in the marketplace, that would be helpful.

我願意。僅就毛利率而言，我認為你們很好地解釋了推動毛利率的因素。不過，我對同比下降的情況還是有點驚訝，如果你願意的話，毛利率基本上和收入一樣下降。我了解利用率不足，折舊增加。但是從定價角度來看您看到了什麼？導致收入和毛利率下降的原因是定價而非銷售？或者如果您可以從定價的角度談談您的策略以及您在市場上看到的情況，這將會很有幫助。

Yes. Toshiya, and I'll remind everyone else, I know you know the industry well, but pricing just doesn't move quickly in our markets overall, and nor is it the primary reason why a customer chooses our products. So -- and as we've mentioned before, our pricing strategy hasn't changed, and of course, we're always regularly monitoring the market and pricing our products appropriately. And as we've talked about now for I think a couple of quarters, as we expected supply and demand to come more in balance, that we would expect pricing to revert back to how it's behaved over the last 10 or 20 years. And over the last six months or so, that's what we've seen. So somewhat of a low single-digit decline is what we're expecting out in time, and I wouldn't describe that as unusual.

是的。 Toshiya，我要提醒其他人，我知道您很了解這個行業，但在我們的整個市場中，定價變動並不快，這也不是客戶選擇我們產品的主要原因。所以——正如我們之前提到的，我們的定價策略沒有改變，當然，我們一直在定期監控市場並對產品進行適當的定價。正如我們現在所討論的，我認為在未來幾個季度裡，由於我們預計供需將更加平衡，我們預計價格將恢復到過去 10 年或 20 年的水平。在過去六個月左右的時間裡，我們看到的就是這種情況。因此，我們預計最終會出現較低的個位數下降，我認為這並不罕見。

Our next question comes from the line of Timothy Arcuri with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀的提摩西‧阿庫裡。

I wanted to ask about factory loadings. Dave, gross margin was down maybe 250 basis points. It's kind of implied to be down 250 basis points. Even if I strip out depreciation, it's down about 100 basis points from March. So it seems like utilization is coming down a bit. And CapEx also came in a little bit lower too for December. So the first question on that is, can you talk about loadings. Is March going to be the bottom in loadings and we should see inventory begin to come down also in March? And then I had a follow-up on that, too.

我想詢問有關工廠負荷的情況。戴夫，毛利率可能下降了 250 個基點。這暗示下降了 250 個基點。即使剔除折舊，它也比 3 月下降了約 100 個基點。因此看起來利用率有所下降。 12 月份的資本支出也略有下降。因此，第一個問題是，您能談談負載嗎？三月的裝載量是否會觸底？然後我也對此進行了跟進。

Yes. So thanks for the question. So step back in third quarter, at the end of the third quarter, we talked about this. As we have neared our inventory levels, then we have adjusted our factory loadings accordingly. So in third quarter, we did some of that, and that had an impact on gross margins and underutilization. Fourth quarter adjustment was bigger than third quarter. And now going into first quarter, we're taking that adjustment further. So the first quarter adjustment on underutilization will be -- will be bigger. But we continue to have an upward bias on inventory as we continue to build the right buffers for the right parts to be ready on the other side of the cycle. Do you have a follow-up?

是的。感謝您的提問。回顧第三季度，在第三季末，我們討論了這個問題。由於我們已經接近庫存水平，因此我們已相應地調整了工廠的負荷。因此，在第三季度，我們做了一些這樣的事情，這對毛利率和利用率不足產生了影響。第四季的調整幅度較第三季更大。現在進入第一季度，我們正在進一步調整。因此，第一季針對未充分利用的調整幅度將會更大。但是，我們繼續對庫存保持上行傾向，因為我們將繼續為正確的零件建立正確的緩衝，以便在週期的另一端做好準備。你有後續行動嗎？

I did. Yes. So then on CapEx, can you talk about that? It was a little lower. It's running actually quite a bit below the $5 billion run rate now. So are you actually cutting CapEx now with -- since you're bringing on factory loadings?

是的。是的。那麼關於資本支出，您能談談嗎？它稍微低了一點。事實上，目前的營運額遠低於 50 億美元的營運額。那麼，由於您增加了工廠負荷，您現在實際上是否在削減資本支出？

No, we're not. In fact, CapEx came in as expected, $5.1 billion, and we've been talking about $5 billion per year. So it was right on target. And you should expect and we expect to continue running at about $5 billion per year through 2026 as we complete the investment plans that we've been talking about.

不，我們不是。事實上，資本支出達到了預期的 51 億美元，我們一直在談論每年 50 億美元。所以這是完全正確的。您應該預料到，隨著我們完成我們一直在談論的投資計劃，我們預計到 2026 年，該投資將繼續以每年約 50 億美元的水平運行。

Our next question comes from the line of Chris Danely with Citibank.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Chris Danely。

Just a follow-up on the utilization rates. So is the target, I guess, inventory level, has that not changed for you guys? And so do you expect utilization rates to bottom in Q1? Or do you think you might have some more inventory adjustments going into Q2 for TI?

只是對利用率進行追蹤。那麼，我猜，目標庫存水準對你們來說沒有改變嗎？那麼您是否預期利用率將在第一季觸底？或者您認為 TI 第二季度可能會進行更多庫存調整？

Yes. No, thanks, Chris. So our -- broadly speaking, our inventory targets have not changed over the last six, nine months through this cycle. So we still have some ways to go -- clearly less than we did six months ago. But we will still have some ways to go on that front. At one point, I talked about $4 billion to $4.5 billion worth of inventory. So that's in the ballpark. And we just finished just shy of $4 billion. But as far as when underutilization bottoms, that's going to depend on revenue expectations, and at this point, we're only -- as always, we only give one quarter at a time. So we'll see where we are 90 days from now, and we'll tell you about that.

是的。不，謝謝，克里斯。所以，從廣義上講，我們的庫存目標在過去六到九個月的周期內沒有改變。因此，我們還有很長的路要走——顯然比六個月前還要少。但在這方面我們還有很長的路要走。有一次，我談到了價值 40 億到 45 億美元的庫存。這就是大致情況。我們的銷售額剛剛接近 40 億美元。但至於利用率不足何時觸底，這將取決於收入預期，而目前，我們只是——和往常一樣，每次只給出一個季度的數據。因此，我們將觀察 90 天後的情況，並告訴您。

Maybe I'll just add that our target inventory is set really by device. It's -- we look at things like how many customers are buying the product, what the buying patterns look like, how long it takes us to manufacture the product. So it's really a bottoms-up plan built on that very, very specifically. So that's what drives that target overall, and we want to have inventory positioned to support growth over the long term. Just as a side comment. So you have a follow-on, Chris?

也許我只想補充一點，我們的目標庫存實際上是由設備設定的。我們會考慮很多因素，例如有多少顧客購買了該產品，購買模式是什麼樣的，以及生產該產品需要多長時間。所以，這其實是一個非常非常具體的自下而上的計畫。這就是推動整個目標的因素，我們希望庫存能夠支持長期成長。僅作為附帶評論。那你還有後續問題嗎，克里斯？

Yes. I guess just a little bit of color on the end market commentary. Thanks for that. On the industrial side, it sounds like most of the downside is due to excess inventory, not demand. I was hoping you could confirm that. And then with automotive weakening, is there any reason why automotive wouldn't fall under the same issues that the industrial end markets/inventory would as well?

是的。我想這只是對最終市場評論的一點補充。謝謝。從工業方面來看，大部分的下滑似乎是由於庫存過剩，而不是需求。我希望您能證實這一點。那麼，隨著汽車業的疲軟，有什麼理由認為汽車業不會遭遇與工業終端市場/庫存相同的問題呢？

Yes. So I'll start and then Rafael, if you want to add anything. I would say that the demand signals that we get from customers are orders that they place, whether that's either directly or through consignment feeds. So that's the data that we can see. We actually can't see their inventory levels. We can anecdotally -- as we see a market like personal electronics is down 30%, 40%, we know handsets and PCs, that market hasn't gone down as much as that, so we know anecdotally that we're shipping below demand. So we believe that, that's what's going on in industrial. We have customers who have told us that they have built inventory and plan to correct that. So having a real clear picture of what their demand looks like and their channel inventories look like isn't something that we can see directly overall.

是的。所以我先開始，然後是拉斐爾，如果你想添加任何內容的話。我想說，我們從客戶那裡得到的需求訊號是他們下的訂單，無論是直接下訂單還是透過寄售下訂單。這就是我們可以看到的數據。我們實際上無法看到他們的庫存水準。我們可以從傳聞中得知——我們看到個人電子產品市場下滑了 30%、40%，但我們知道手機和個人電腦市場下滑幅度沒有那麼大，所以我們從傳聞中得知我們的出貨量低於需求。所以我們相信，這就是工業領域正在發生的事情。有客戶告訴我們，他們已經建立了庫存併計劃糾正這一點。因此，我們無法直接全面地了解他們的需求和通路庫存情況。

So -- and the comment on automotive. We know that customers there did want to build inventory. And we believe that they're in a good position now. So it wasn't surprising that we saw a sequential decline there. So thanks, Chris. We will go to our next caller please.

所以——以及對汽車的評論。我們知道那裡的客戶確實希望建立庫存。我們相信他們現在處於有利地位。因此，我們看到其連續下降也就不足為奇了。所以謝謝你，克里斯。我們將接聽下一位來電。

Our next question comes from the line of Tom O'Malley with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的湯姆奧馬利。

I just wanted to understand the linearity of the industrial and automotive declines. When you set out in the quarter, baked into your expectations, were you kind of looking at these two businesses both a little bit better than they came in, or was one a bit worse than the other versus your expectations? And then just in terms of the timing of the quarter, it looks like your finished goods inventory went up a bit more than your other buckets. And I just wanted to understand, is that just because later in the quarter, customers were signaling some weaker trends? Or is there any reason behind the dynamic there?

我只是想了解工業和汽車業衰退的線性。當您制定本季計畫時，根據您的預期，您是否認為這兩項業務的表現都比原來的預期要好一些，還是其中一項比另一項要差一些？然後就本季的時間而言，看起來您的成品庫存比其他庫存增加得更多一些。我只是想了解一下，這是否僅僅是因為在本季度後期，客戶發出了一些較弱的趨勢信號？或者這種動態的背後有某些原因嗎？

Let me start with the second part of the question. And Dave, do you want to take the first one, better. Second part, that's just a reflection of our ability to build those inventory buffers that we're talking about. And what you're seeing there is on the finished goods side. That's one, as Dave alluded to earlier, that's one set of targets that we have. That's at the finished goods level. Remember, we have 100,000 different parts. And the vast majority of those are what we call catalog, which means they sell to many, many customers. So we want to build certain finished good level for each one of those parts. But we're also building at the chip level. Think of a chip can go into two, three, 10 different finished goods. So it works out well to have some chip level inventory operationally. But you also have -- want to have finished goods. So that's what - that's what you saw there.

讓我先回答問題的第二部分。戴夫，你想選第一個嗎？第二部分，這只是反映了我們建立所談論的庫存緩衝的能力。您在這裡看到的是成品。正如戴夫之前提到的，這是我們的一組目標。這是成品水準。請記住，我們有 100,000 個不同的零件。其中絕大多數是我們所說的目錄，這意味著它們會賣給很多很多客戶。因此，我們希望為每個部分建立一定的成品水平。但我們也在晶片層面進行建設。想像一下，一個晶片可以製成兩種、三種、十種不同的成品。因此，從營運角度來說，擁有一些晶片級庫存是有好處的。但你也想要成品。所以這就是-這就是你在那裡看到的。

Yes. And by end markets, Tom, our guidance, as you saw where our revenues came in, we were, I think, less than 1% from the midpoint of the guidance range. So the business came in about as we expected and nothing unusual in -- versus our expectation in industrial or automotive overall. So do you have a follow-up?

是的。湯姆，就終端市場而言，我們的預期是，正如你所看到的，我們的收入來自哪裡，我認為，我們距離預期範圍的中點不到 1%。因此，業務發展符合我們的預期，與我們對工業或汽車整體的預期相比，並沒有什麼異常。那麼您有後續訊息嗎？

Our next question comes from the line of Ross Seymore with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的羅斯·西摩。

I just wanted to ask about the product side, the Analog versus Embedded. Embedded had a significantly better year, dropping 3% versus the Analog down 15. I know there's very different end market exposures for those. But were there other competitive dynamics, pricing dynamics, strategic focus dynamics, anything else to explain the difference between the performance of those two segments?

我只是想問產品方面，模擬與嵌入式。嵌入式產品今年的表現明顯更好，下降了 3%，而模擬產品則下降了 15%。但是，是否還有其他競爭動態、定價動態、策略重點動態或其他什麼因素可以解釋這兩個部分的表現之間的差異？

Yes, Ross, I think your instincts are spot on that the first lens to look at things is through the end markets, and Embedded has heavied up in industrial and automotive. So revenues there were stronger for a longer period of time. The second consideration is that Embedded relies on foundry wafer supply more heavily. Most of our Analog business is done internally. So there, the constraints lasted longer and have now been resolved and are behind us. So that created some of the lag between there as well. So -- and as you know, our CapEx plans and spend will have more of our wafers overall built internally, which is inclusive of Embedded. Do you have a follow-on?

是的，羅斯，我認為你的直覺是正確的，看待事物的第一個視角是透過終端市場，而嵌入式在工業和汽車領域已經佔據了重要地位。因此，那裡的收入在較長時期內保持在較高水準。第二個考慮是，嵌入式對於代工晶圓供應的依賴程度較高。我們的模擬業務大多是內部完成的。所以，這些限制持續了很長時間，現在已經解決，並且已經成為過去。所以這也造成了一些滯後。所以 — — 如您所知，我們的資本支出計劃和支出將包括更多內部製造的晶圓，其中包括嵌入式晶圓。您有後續訊息嗎？

Yes, I do. And it's kind of a cyclical question. You guys are astute students of cyclicality of this whole industry. I think this is going to be, including your guide, the sixth quarter of negative year-over-year comps. Do you see anything that's TI-specific that's different this cycle? Pricing just got so good before; now it's a bigger headwind. You kind of addressed the pricing dynamic a little bit before. But what's making this duration so much longer? And is any of it TI-specific?

是的，我願意。這是一個循環往復的問題。你們是整個行業週期性的敏銳學生。我認為，包括你的指南在內，第六季的年比業績將出現負成長。您是否看到本週期中與 TI 特定相關的任何不同之處？之前的定價就已經很優惠了；如今，逆風卻更大了。您之前已經提到過一些定價動態問題。但是有什麼使得這個持續時間這麼長呢？其中有 TI 特有的嗎？

Ross, I think I'll make a comment, and Rafael, if you want to add anything. All cycles are the same, and they're all different, right, as we've all studied them over time. What's clearly different this time is how the markets have behaved in the bifurcation. We saw personal electronics begin to weaken the second quarter a year ago. And automotive just we saw a sequential decline this last quarter. So in the other markets, somewhere in between. So -- and then in addition, I think that we've had lots of other noise that's inside of the system, whether that's been pricing, as you mentioned, we've had noncancelable non-reschedulable orders and other longer-term contracts that have required customers to take product that they don't need, whether companies are using distributors more heavily than others. So all of that adds noise into it. So I think we just need to let that noise wring itself out over the cycle. And what we're focused on, of course, is investing in our competitive advantages, getting stronger, we believe that we're in a great position to continue to gain share over the long term.

羅斯，我想我會發表評論，拉斐爾，如果你想補充什麼的話。所有周期都是相同的，而且它們都是不同的，對吧，因為我們都隨著時間的推移對它們進行了研究。這次明顯不同的是市場在分歧中的表現。去年第二季我們就看到個人電子產品開始疲軟。上個季度，汽車業出現了連續下滑。在其他市場，情況則介於兩者之間。所以 — 此外，我認為我們在系統內部還遇到了很多其他問題，無論是定價，正如您所說，我們有不可取消、不可重新安排的訂單和其他長期合同，要求客戶接受他們不需要的產品，無論公司是否比其他公司更多地使用分銷商。所有這些都會增加噪音。所以我認為我們只需要讓這種噪音在周期內自行消失。當然，我們關注的是投資我們的競爭優勢，變得更強大，我們相信我們處於有利地位，並且能夠在長期內繼續獲得市場份額。

Yes. I just want to clarify for those who may be new on the call, when Dave talked about noncancelable, non-returnable orders, that's not -- we don't do that. Many of our competitors have done that. So that, in our view, distorts the market. That wasn't the case with us.

是的。我只是想向那些可能剛參加電話會議的人澄清一下，當戴夫談到不可取消、不可退貨的訂單時，事實並非如此——我們不這樣做。我們的許多競爭對手都這麼做了。我們認為，這扭曲了市場。我們的情況並非如此。

And the second point, distributors, same thing. Our distributor footprint is much smaller than with many of our competitors. We're down to 25% or so of our revenue through distribution; so 75% direct, whereas many of our competitors are the opposite.

第二點，分銷商，也是一樣。我們的分銷商足跡比許多競爭對手小得多。我們透過分銷獲得的收入下降到了25%左右；所以75%是直接銷售，而我們的許多競爭對手則剛好相反。

Our next question comes from the line of Joe Moore with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的喬·摩爾。

I wonder if you could talk about the CHIPS Act, how that's kind of flowing through both the investment tax credit and then any thoughts you may have on timing of kind of grant issuances or things like that?

我想知道您是否可以談談《CHIPS法案》，它是如何在投資稅收抵免中發揮作用的，以及您對補助金發放時間或類似事項有何看法？

Yes. No, happy to talk about that. So first, let me address the ITC first, and then I'll go to the grant. So the ITC investment tax credit, 25% credit on CapEx for manufacturing in the United States, we have accrued to date over the last 1.5 years or so, $1.4 billion. We expect to get about $500 million of that later this year, probably in the fourth quarter as far as the current law and regulations stipulate. And we'll get the rest further down the road, mostly the following year and then after that. And we'll continue to accrue that benefit, just again, 25% on anything we spend in the United States for manufacturing. That's the cash side and the balance sheet.

是的。不，很高興談論這個。首先，讓我先談談 ITC，然後再談一談贈款。因此，ITC 投資稅收抵免，即對美國製造業資本支出的 25% 抵免，在過去的 1.5 年左右我們已累積達到 14 億美元。我們預計今年稍後將獲得其中約 5 億美元，就目前的法律法規規定，可能是在第四季。其餘的工作我們會在以後陸續完成，大部分會在第二年及之後。我們將繼續享受這項福利，同樣，我們在美國製造的任何支出都將享受 25% 的福利。這就是現金方面和資產負債表。

On the P&L, you're already -- we're already seeing the benefit of lower depreciation. And that tends to be -- that benefit tends to be small, has been small so far because, for example, some of that is for buildings that haven't even started to depreciate. But it will build up over time on that front. So that's the ITC.

在損益表上，您已經 - 我們已經看到了降低折舊的好處。而且這種收益往往很小，到目前為止一直很小，因為例如其中一些是針對尚未開始折舊的建築物。但隨著時間的推移，它將逐漸增強。這就是 ITC。

The grants, we submitted our application for those in December. And at this point, we will wait to hear from the Department of Commerce and see what happens there.

我們在 12 月提交了補助金申請。目前，我們將等待商務部的消息，觀察那裡發生的一切。

You have a follow-on Joe?

您有後續人員嗎？

Yes, I did. So I think, obviously, that stuff will help the cash flow down the road, but your free cash flow is below the level of the dividend right now. I assume it's pretty important to keep paying the dividend. Where does that leave you in terms of share repurchases and other uses of cash?

是的，我做到了。因此我認為，顯然這些東西將有助於未來的現金流，但你的自由現金流目前低於股息水準。我認為繼續支付股息非常重要。就股票回購和其他現金用途而言，您對此有何看法？

Yes. First, I would point you to our operating cash. Our business model is very strong. And our operating cash flow is very strong, and it supports our investment for growth through the cycle. So clearly, with the levels of CapEx that we have right now, that hits the free cash flow. But big picture, understand and look at the operating cash. Even in a depressed environment with the revenue depressed, the operating cash flow is very strong. We also have a very strong balance sheet, and we just finished the year at $8.6 billion.

是的。首先，我想向大家介紹一下我們的營運現金。我們的商業模式非常強大。我們的經營現金流非常強勁，它支持我們在整個週期中進行成長投資。顯然，以我們目前的資本支出水平，這會影響自由現金流。但從總體上看，要了解並關注營運現金。即使在經濟不景氣、收入下降的情況下，經營現金流仍然非常強勁。我們的資產負債表也非常強勁，今年年底我們的資產負債表餘額剛好達到 86 億美元。

When it comes to repurchases, I would take you to our objectives on capital management for cash return. And our objective is to return all free cash flow via dividends and repurchases. Each one of those has different objectives on dividends and repurchases. But we have a really good track record over many years of doing both of those.

當談到回購時，我想向您介紹我們在現金回報資本管理方面的目標。我們的目標是透過股利和回購返還所有自由現金流。每家公司在股利和回購方面都有不同的目標。但多年來我們在這兩方面都擁有良好的業績記錄。

Our next question comes from the line of Harlan Sur with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Harlan Sur。

Up through Q3 of last year, the team had seen numerous consecutive quarters of increasing cancellations and pushouts, right, typical customer behavior in a weak demand environment. I assume given your commentary that the team continues to see cancellations, pushouts activity expanding into the December quarter. You're almost a month into March. Are you still seeing cancellations and pushouts expanding or starting to maybe see some signs of stabilization?

截至去年第三季度，該團隊已經連續多個季度看到取消和延遲的情況增加，這是需求疲軟環境下的典型客戶行為。根據您的評論，我認為團隊將繼續看到取消和延遲活動擴展到 12 月季度。三月已經過去快一個月了。您是否仍看到取消和推遲的情況正在擴大，或者開始看到一些穩定的跡象？

Yes, Harlan. As you would expect, we have seen cancellations in the quarter, and fourth quarter had remained elevated. I wouldn't describe them as increasing, but just at higher levels. And we're still early inside of the quarter. I would say all of what's going on with cancellations and the backlog that we see is all comprehended in our guidance and our outlook.

是的，哈蘭。正如您所預料的，我們在本季度看到了取消訂單的情況，並且第四季度的訂單仍然很高。我不會將它們描述為在增加，而只是在更高的水平上。目前我們仍處於本季的初期。我想說，我們看到的所有取消和積壓情況都已在我們的指導和展望中得到體現。

Perfect. And then yes, from a geographical perspective, China-headquartered shipments been about 20% of your sales through the October quarter of last year. This geography has experienced the most significant decline during this downturn, when it's down about 33% year-to-date up through Q3 of last year, your total business was down 13%, right? Is this geography continuing to contribute to the weakness stepping into this year? Or is the weakness more U.S.- and European-based?

完美的。是的，從地理角度來看，截至去年 10 月季度，中國總部的出貨量約佔你們銷售額的 20%。這個地區在這次經濟衰退中經歷了最嚴重的下滑，截至去年第三季度，今年迄今已下滑約 33%，而你們的整體業務下滑了 13%，對嗎？這個地理位置是否會繼續加劇今年的疲軟局面？或者這種弱點更多地源自美國和歐洲？

Yes. I would say when you look regionally this quarter from a -- just from a dollar standpoint, you've got -- sequentially, all the regions were down with the exception of the rest of Asia. So nothing unusual with China going on specifically there overall. So again, when we look at our business, I think most of that is explained by the end markets. And certainly, we hadn't seen a recovery inside of China that I think most of us were expecting.

是的。我想說的是，如果從地區角度來看本季的情況——僅從美元角度來看——你會發現——除亞洲其他地區外，所有地區的銷售額都出現了環比下降。因此總體而言，中國在那裡發生的事情並沒有什麼不尋常之處。因此，當我們再次審視我們的業務時，我認為大部分問題都可以由終端市場來解釋。當然，我們還沒有看到中國國內出現我認為大多數人都期待的復甦。

Our next question comes from the line of Joshua Buchalter with TD Cowen & Company.

我們的下一個問題來自 TD Cowen & Company 的 Joshua Buchalter。

I wanted to ask about how you're thinking about OpEx given the extended softness. Any thoughts on getting more defensive with OpEx as the weakness lasts longer than expected? Or you grew OpEx 8% in 2023? Is that sort of the right level that you think you need to be investing in the business for the long-term growth?

我想問一下，考慮到延長的軟度，您如何看待 OpEx。由於疲軟持續時間比預期的要長，您是否考慮對 OpEx 採取更強硬的防禦措施？還是您的營運支出在 2023 年成長了 8%？您認為為了實現長期成長，您需要對業務進行這樣的投資嗎？

Yes. Big picture, we have a disciplined process of allocating capital to R&D and SG&A to the best opportunities. And we've held a steady hand throughout a number of years, prepandemic, during the pandemic, post pandemic, where we managed OpEx very well during that time and didn't get ahead of our skis. So we will continue with that disciplined process. Remember, of course, these investments, particularly industrial/automotive, which is where we're biasing our investments, they're very long term in nature. You're not going to -- what you save now is going to -- would hurt your long-term revenue growth. So we're not going to do that. So we're going to maintain those investments for the long term.

是的。整體而言，我們有一個嚴格的流程，將資本分配給研發和銷售、一般及行政開支，以獲得最佳機會。在疫情前、疫情期間和疫情後的這幾年裡，我們一直保持著穩定的狀態，在這段時間裡，我們很好地管理了營運支出，沒有超出我們的預期。因此，我們將繼續這有紀律的進程。當然，請記住，這些投資，特別是工業/汽車投資，也就是我們偏向的投資，它們的性質是非常長期的。你現在節省的錢不會損害你的長期收入成長。所以我們不會這麼做。因此我們將長期維持這些投資。

You have a follow-on, Josh?

喬什，你還有後續問題嗎？

Yes. I guess I wanted to ask about your fixed cost leverage. I mean, in the past, you've talked about, I think, 75% gross margin fall-through on incremental revenue. Is that still the right metric we should be using, given revenues, a good amount lower and depreciation is larger. I'd just be curious to hear if anything in the mechanics of that math has changed. And basically, when can the incremental 300mm capacity start flowing through to gross margin and be margin accretive?

是的。我想問一下你的固定成本槓桿。我的意思是，過去您曾談到過增量收入導致的毛利率下降 75%。考慮到收入、較低的金額和較大的折舊，這仍然是我們應該使用的正確指標嗎？我只是好奇想知道這個數學機制是否發生了任何變化。那麼基本上，300mm 產能增量何時可以開始轉化為毛利率並增加利潤呢？

Yes. So the math is still the same. The fall-through you should use is 70% to 75%. That is still a reasonable starting point. You then have to adjust for depreciation, as you alluded to. And our depreciation, I gave you an update on that 90 days ago, but I'll reinforce that in a second. But you have to adjust for that. And then there are always puts and takes on any given quarter. Like right now, it's underutilization, but at some point, that goes the other way.

是的。因此數學仍然是一樣的。您應使用的 fallthrough 值為 70% 到 75%。這仍然是一個合理的起點。然後，正如您所提到的，您必須調整折舊。至於我們的折舊，我在 90 天前就已經向您提供了最新信息，但我稍後會重申這一點。但你必須適應這一點。而且在任何一個季度裡，總是存在著損失和利弊。就像現在，它的利用率還不夠高，但在某種程度上，情況就會變成相反的情況。

Throughout this time, as you pointed out, we will continue to benefit increasingly from 300mm -- more 300mm wafers, which have a cost advantage.

正如您所指出的，在這段時間裡，我們將繼續從 300 毫米中受益匪淺——更多的 300 毫米晶圓具有成本優勢。

So let me go back to depreciation, just to make sure everybody has the right numbers. It's the same as what I said 90 days ago. For 2024, expect $1.5 billion to $1.8 billion, and for 2025, expect $2 billion to $2.5 billion.

因此，讓我回到折舊問題，只是為了確保每個人都有正確的數字。這和我90天前說的一樣。預計 2024 年將達到 15 億至 18 億美元，預計 2025 年將達到 20 億至 25 億美元。

Our next question comes from the line of CJ Muse with Cantor Fitzgerald.

我們的下一個問題來自 Cantor Fitzgerald 的 CJ Muse。

I guess first question, your revenue outlook for March basically gets us back to kind of pre-Covid first half 2020 levels. Yet at the same time, your inventory is roughly double. And so curious, how are you thinking about kind of normalized inventory over time? And also, how are you thinking about coming out of the trough, what kind of a gross margin recovery will look like, given where your inventory levels are today?

我想第一個問題是，您對 3 月的收入預期基本上讓我們回到了 2020 年上半年新冠疫情之前的水平。但與此同時，您的庫存大約增加了一倍。非常好奇，您如何看待一段時間內的正常化庫存？另外，考慮到您目前的庫存水平，您打算如何走出低谷，毛利率將如何恢復？

So that's a multipart question, has many angles to that. What I would tell you, high level, we're very comfortable with our inventory level. Right now, we're just shy of $4 billion. As I said earlier on the call, we have a continued upward bias for at least one more quarter, probably a couple of quarters at least, an upward bias on that. But that is good inventory for catalog parts that sell to many customers that last a long time. So I feel really good about that. But we'll see how things play out on the other side of the cycle and depending on demand and different things. But I would expect to continue holding relatively high levels of inventory.

所以這是一個多部分的問題，有很多角度。我想告訴你們的是，高層，我們對我們的庫存水準非常滿意。目前，我們的資金還不到 40 億美元。正如我早些時候在電話會議上所說的那樣，我們的上行趨勢至少會持續一個季度，可能至少會持續幾個季度。但對於可以長期銷售給許多客戶的目錄零件來說，這是很好的庫存。所以我對此感覺非常好。但我們將觀察事態在周期的另一端如何發展，這取決於需求和不同因素。但我預計庫存將繼續保持相對較高的水平。

We are just in a different position than we were even three or four years ago in terms of how much of our revenue and our parts are in industrial/ automotive, in catalog type of parts that last a long time. So our strategy is such that it makes sense to have, to have that inventory. Our order fulfillment processes have also improved. We have TI.com and different tools that we can leverage to go direct to market. We have a much higher percent of our revenue, now 75%, is direct. So all those factors play into having more inventory as a real leverage point that we can use to serve our customers even better.

與三、四年前相比，我們現在的地位已經不同了，我們的收入和零件在工業/汽車領域佔比很大，而且目錄上的零件類型都可以長期使用。所以我們的策略是，擁有這些庫存是有意義的。我們的訂單履行流程也得到了改善。我們有 TI.com 和不同的工具，可以利用它們直接進入市場。我們的收入中直接收入比例更高，目前為75%。因此，所有這些因素都使更多的庫存成為真正的槓桿點，我們可以利用它來更好地服務客戶。

A quick follow-up to a prior question. I know you can't share too much, but your application clearly in for the CHIPS Act. I guess, we should hear results between now and the summer. I guess, is there anything you can share on that front and perhaps how it's kind of impacting your thoughts on the capacity you're bringing on line?

對先前的問題進行快速跟進。我知道你不能分享太多，但你的申請顯然符合 CHIPS 法案。我想，我們應該能從現在到夏天聽到結果。我想，您在這方面能分享什麼嗎？

Yes. No. Unfortunately, no, there's nothing we can share. It's really up to the Department of Commerce. We sent our application, and we'll see where that goes. What I would say just -- just like I said I've said before, is when we decided about a year ago to take our CapEx up from $3.5 billion per year to $5 billion per year, and this tremendous plan to build more fabs in the United States, we comprehended CHIPS grant in that decision. So that was part of our thinking there. But at this point, yes, that's all we can share on that front.

是的。沒有，很遺憾，我們沒有什麼可以分享的。這實際上取決於商務部。我們已經提交了申請，將會看看結果如何。我想說的是——就像我之前說過的，當我們在大約一年前決定將我們的資本支出從每年 35 億美元增加到每年 50 億美元，並製定了在美國建設更多晶圓廠的宏偉計劃時，我們在該決定中考慮到了 CHIPS 的撥款。這就是我們的想法。但就目前而言，是的，這就是我們在這方面可以分享的全部內容。

And I think we've got time for one more call, please.

我想我們還有時間再打一次電話。

Our last question comes from the line of Chris Caso with Wolfe Research.

我們的最後一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Chris Caso。

Just trying to understand a little bit about why the customers may have reacted as they did, because we know your lead times have normalized well in advance of the rest of the industry. Do you think this is just simply a function of end markets took another leg down here? Do you think perhaps some of your customers were delaying their inventory adjustments until they saw lead times for the rest of the industry come down, because we know that's also some of your competitors lagged your lead time normalization. Perhaps that was a factor here.

只是想稍微了解為什麼客戶會有這樣的反應，因為我們知道你們的交貨時間已經遠遠領先其他行業而正常化了。您是否認為這只是終端市場功能的另一個表現？您是否認為，也許您的一些客戶正在推遲他們的庫存調整，直到他們看到其他行業的交貨時間縮短，因為我們知道您的一些競爭對手也落後於您的交貨時間正常化。或許這就是其中一個因素。

Yes, Chris, as you know, you can't pin it on one thing, especially we've got well over 100,000 customers and 80,000 products that we're managing. As Rafael was talking about building inventory, we've got essentially all of our catalog products or almost all of our catalog products are now immediately available on TI.com. And our objective with inventory and the capacity we're putting in place is to have our customer service metrics remain high, which means keeping time lead times stable.

是的，克里斯，如你所知，你不能把問題歸咎於一件事，特別是我們管理超過 100,000 名客戶和 80,000 種產品。正如拉斐爾 (Rafael) 談到建立庫存時所說，我們基本上已經擁有了所有目錄產品，或者說幾乎所有目錄產品現在都可以在 TI.com 上立即購買。我們對庫存和產能的目標是保持我們的客戶服務指標保持高水平，這意味著保持交貨時間穩定。

So I think in some markets, we've seen customers that have told us that they were planning and have built their capacity and their inventories to grow at 25% in the coming year. And they showed up, and their plans change, and they're only going to grow 10%, right? So they told us they won't be ordering product for some time as they equalize those numbers. They're still going to have healthy growth, but it's hard to put that across all of those 100,000 customers into one short concise statement. Do you have a follow-on?

因此，我認為在一些市場，我們看到客戶告訴我們，他們正在計劃並建立了產能和庫存，以便在未來一年內實現 25% 的成長。他們出現了，他們的計劃改變了，他們只會成長 10%，對嗎？因此他們告訴我們，在平衡這些數字的過程中，他們在一段時間內不會訂購產品。他們仍將保持健康的成長勢頭，但很難用一句話來概括這 10 萬名客戶。您有後續訊息嗎？

Yes. Fair enough. And if you could help us with the impact of the underutilization. Right now how much of a headwind is that providing, right now on a cost of sales basis? And then on the other side of this, when we finally get to a recovery, what will be the right way to model this? Will there be a bigger snapback as some of the underutilization comes off? Or do we just kind of go back to sort of those mid-70s incremental margins on the way back up?

是的。很公平。如果您能幫助我們解決利用不足帶來的影響。目前，根據銷售成本計算，這帶來多大的阻力？另一方面，當我們最終實現復甦時，正確的建模方法是什麼？隨著一些未充分利用的因素消失，是否會出現更大的反彈？或者我們只是在回升的過程中回到 70 年代中期增量利潤率的水平？

Yes. So what I would tell you, first, we don't quantify underutilization, but you can fairly reasonably back into it, just looking at our numbers, our midpoint -- or our range, our midpoint and then consider the depreciation -- expected depreciation increase. And it'd be relatively straightforward for you to back into something reasonable for first quarter on the underutilization impact there. Now after that, it's all going to depend on revenue and revenue expectations because, of course, depending what those are in the second half of the year, let's say, 90 days from now, then that will be a big factor in determining how the factories will run.

是的。所以我想告訴你，首先，我們沒有量化未充分利用的情況，但你可以相當合理地回到這個問題上，只需看看我們的數字，我們的中點 - 或者我們的範圍，我們的中點，然後考慮折舊 - 預期折舊增加。而且，對於第一季而言，您可以相對直接地找到合理的方法來應對利用不足的影響。現在，一切都將取決於收入和收入預期，因為當然，這取決於下半年的收入和收入預期，比如說，從現在起 90 天后，這將成為決定工廠如何運作的重要因素。

But the bigger picture is all deployment of CapEx that we're doing is all on 300mm, which has a 40% cost advantage versus 200mm. As several questions people asked earlier, it has ITC benefits on that. So the -- is coming in at 25% discount on the ITC, and we'll see how much we get on grants. So the fall-through on those investments for many, many years will be very positive, I would say. So with that, Dave?

但更大範圍來看，我們進行的所有資本支出部署均在 300 毫米上，與 200 毫米相比，其成本優勢為 40%。正如人們之前提出的幾個問題一樣，它具有 ITC 優勢。因此，ITC 的折扣為 25%，我們將看看能獲得多少補助金。因此我想說，這些投資在未來許多年內的回報將是非常正面的。那麼，戴夫？

Yes. Thanks, Rafael. Thank you all for joining us. We look forward to sharing our capital management update next Thursday, February 1, at 10 a.m. Central time, as I mentioned earlier, and a replay of this call will be available shortly on our website. Good evening.

是的。謝謝，拉斐爾。感謝大家加入我們。正如我之前提到的，我們期待在下週四（2 月 1 日）中部時間上午 10 點分享我們的資本管理更新，本次電話會議的重播將很快在我們的網站上提供。晚安.

And this concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束，各位現在可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的參與。