科林研發 (LRCX) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good evening and welcome to the Lam Research June quarterly earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Ram Ganesh, VP, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

晚上好，歡迎參加 Lam Research 六月季度財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意此通話正在錄音。我現在將會議交給投資者關係副總裁 Ram Ganesh 先生主持。請繼續。

Thank you and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Lam Research quarterly earnings conference call. With me today are Tim Archer, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Doug Bettinger, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝大家，大家下午好。歡迎參加泛林研究季度財報電話會議。今天與我在一起的有總裁兼執行長 Tim Archer；執行副總裁兼財務長 Doug Bettinger。

During today's call, we will share our overview on the business environment, and we'll review our financial results for the June 2024 quarter and our outlook for the September 2024 quarter. The press release detailing our financial results was distributed a little after 1:00 PM Pacific time. The release can also be found on the investor relations section of the company's website, along with the presentation slides that accompany today's call.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將分享商業環境的概述，並將回顧 2024 年 6 月季度的財務業績和 2024 年 9 月季度的前景。太平洋時間下午 1:00 後不久發布了詳細介紹我們財務業績的新聞稿。新聞稿以及今天電話會議附帶的簡報幻燈片也可以在該公司網站的投資者關係部分找到。

Today's presentation and Q&A include forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties reflected in the risk factors disclosed in our SEC public filings. Please see accompanying slides in the presentation for additional information.

今天的演示和問答包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到我們 SEC 公開文件中揭露的風險因素所反映的風險和不確定性的影響。請參閱簡報中隨附的幻燈片以了解更多資訊。

Today's discussion of our financial results will be presented on a non-GAAP financial basis unless otherwise specified. A detailed reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP results can be found in the accompanying slides in the presentation. This call is scheduled to last until 3:00 PM Pacific time. A replay of this call will be made available later this afternoon on our website.

除非另有說明，今天對我們財務表現的討論將在非公認會計準則財務基礎上進行。 GAAP 和非 GAAP 結果之間的詳細調整可以在簡報中的隨附幻燈片中找到。此次通話預計將持續到太平洋時間下午 3:00。今天下午晚些時候，我們的網站將提供此次電話會議的重播。

And with that, I will hand the call over to Tim.

接下來，我會將電話轉交給提姆。

Thanks, Ram, and good afternoon, everyone. In the June quarter, Lam delivered another set of solid results with revenues, profitability, and earnings per share all coming in above the midpoint of our guidance. Our CSBG business posted strong growth with revenues up 22% sequentially, led by Reliant and spares.

謝謝拉姆，大家下午好。在六月季度，林氏集團又取得了一系列穩健的業績，收入、獲利能力和每股盈餘都高於我們指引的中點。在 Reliant 和備件的推動下，我們的 CSBG 業務實現強勁成長，營收季增 22%。

On the manufacturing side, we achieved a key milestone in the quarter with our Malaysia factory shipping its 5,000th chamber. This is the fastest ramp of a new manufacturing facility in Lam's history, and we remain on track to achieve our long term cost reduction goals through an expanded global manufacturing and supply chain footprint.

在製造方面，我們在本季度實現了一個重要的里程碑，我們的馬來西亞工廠交付了第 5,000 個腔室。這是 Lam 歷史上新製造工廠最快的擴建，我們仍然有望透過擴大全球製造和供應鏈足跡來實現我們的長期成本降低目標。

As previously communicated, 2024 is a year of strategic investment for Lam, where we are prioritizing product development for key technology inflections, global R&D infrastructure close to our customers and digital transformation for operational efficiency at scale. We believe these investments will put Lam in a position to outperform as the industry moves into a period of multiyear WFE spending expansion.

如同先前所傳達的，2024 年是 Lam 的策略性投資年，我們將優先考慮關鍵技術變化的產品開發、貼近客戶的全球研發基礎設施以及大規模營運效率的數位轉型。我們相信，隨著該行業進入多年 WFE 支出擴張時期，這些投資將使 Lam 能夠跑贏大盤。

Now turning to WFE, we expect this year spending to be in the mid $90 billion range. Our customer investment profile is generally unchanged from our prior view, apart from slightly stronger domestic China spending and additional demand related to the ramp of high bandwidth memory or HBM capacity.

現在轉向 WFE，我們預計今年的支出將在 900 億美元左右。除了中國國內支出略有增加以及與高頻寬記憶體或 HBM 容量成長相關的額外需求之外，我們的客戶投資狀況總體上與我們先前的觀點沒有變化。

We see foundry, logic, DRAM and NAND investments all up on a year on year basis. Global spending on mature node technologies is expected to be roughly flat year on year.

我們看到代工、邏輯、DRAM 和 NAND 投資均較去年同期成長。全球在成熟節點技術上的支出預計將年比大致持平。

Looking ahead to 2025, we see a positive environment for continued growth in WFE spending. The power of AI is a transformative business tool is still yet to be fully realized. Today, the focus on AI model training is driving strong demand for GPUs and HBM.

展望 2025 年，我們看到 WFE 支出持續成長的正面環境。人工智慧作為一種變革性商業工具的力量尚未被充分認識。如今，對 AI 模型訓練的關注正在推動對 GPU 和 HBM 的強勁需求。

However, as AI use cases expand, we believe inferencing at the etch will spur content growth of low power DRAM and NAND storage in enterprise PCs and smartphones. Investments for AI enabled etch devices play particularly well to Lam's strengths. We anticipate that memory customers looking to scale capacity and lower bid costs will bias WFE spending toward technology upgrades of the installed base.

然而，隨著人工智慧用例的擴展，我們相信蝕刻推理將刺激企業 PC 和智慧型手機中低功耗 DRAM 和 NAND 儲存的內容成長。對人工智慧蝕刻設備的投資特別能發揮 Lam 的優勢。我們預計，尋求擴大容量和降低投標成本的記憶體客戶將使 WFE 支出偏向安裝基礎的技術升級。

For NAND, the etch and deposition intensity of upgrades is significantly higher than in a greenfield investment. When you consider Lam's sizable installed base in memory, including roughly 7,500 high aspect ratio dielectric etch chambers for NAND alone, we are positioned to outgrow overall WFE when customers upgrade existing memory production lines to next-generation nodes.

對於 NAND，升級的蝕刻和沈積強度明顯高於綠地投資。考慮到 Lam 在記憶體領域的龐大安裝基礎，包括大約 7,500 個用於 NAND 的高深寬比電介質蝕刻室，當客戶將現有記憶體生產線升級到下一代節點時，我們的成長將超過整體 WFE。

Longer term, etch and deposition are set to play an increasingly vital role in the industry's efforts to develop faster, more power efficient, and lower cost semiconductors to serve AI related applications. By delivering critical solutions for atomic level device scaling, new materials innovation, and advanced packaging integration, we see tremendous opportunity for Lam to expand our served market and increase our share at each successive process technology node.

從長遠來看，蝕刻和沈積將在業界開發更快、更節能、更低成本的半導體以服務人工智慧相關應用的努力中發揮越來越重要的作用。透過為原子級裝置微縮、新材料創新和先進封裝整合提供關鍵解決方案，我們看到 Lam 擴大我們服務的市場並增加我們在每個連續製程技術節點的份額的巨大機會。

To this end, our R&D focus is yielding exciting new products, including this year, our first direct power coupled conductor etch tool with matchless power source and bias, known as DIRECTDRIVE. This new power source uses solid state drivers to stabilize the plasma in the etch chamber 500 times faster than current industry standards.

為此，我們的研發重點是生產令人興奮的新產品，包括今年我們的首款直接功率耦合導體蝕刻工具，具有無與倫比的電源和偏置，稱為 DIRECTDRIVE。這種新電源使用固態驅動器來穩定蝕刻室中的等離子體，速度比目前行業標準快 500 倍。

By combining direct power coupling with Lam's unique plasma pulsing capabilities, our latest conductor etch systems are delivering best in class performance for newly emerging 4F2 DRAM applications. In 4F2 devices, the nature of the bit line placement requires precise etching of ultra small high aspect ratio silicon structures to avoid device shorts or leakage.

透過將直接功率耦合與 Lam 獨特的等離子體脈衝功能相結合，我們最新的導體蝕刻系統為新興的 4F2 DRAM 應用提供一流的性能。在 4F2 裝置中，位線佈局的本質要求對超小型高深寬比矽結構進行精確蝕刻，以避免裝置短路或洩漏。

With direct power coupling and plasma pulsing, Lam connects to vertically oriented 4F2 transistor architectures with unprecedented depth uniformity, and profile control. Similarly, conductor etch is becoming a critical enabler for EUV patterning for gate-all-around and DRAM due to the need to reduce etch placement error.

透過直接功率耦合和等離子體脈衝，Lam 連接到垂直定向的 4F2 電晶體架構，具有前所未有的深度均勻性和輪廓控制。同樣，由於需要減少蝕刻放置錯誤，導體蝕刻正在成為環柵和 DRAM 的 EUV 圖案化的關鍵推動因素。

For nodes below two nanometers, the requirement is for roughly 40% tighter control than five nanometers. Our new conductor etch tool delivers a 30% reduction in feature roughness, which is one of the main contributors to etch placement error.

對於低於 2 奈米的節點，要求比 5 奈米的控制嚴格約 40%。我們的新型導體蝕刻工具可將特徵粗糙度降低 30%，這是造成蝕刻放置誤差的主要原因之一。

In addition, we can achieve one to two orders of magnitude improvement in defectivity for a given EUV dose, further helping customers reduce the overall cost and improve the capability of the EUV patterning process.

此外，對於給定的 EUV 劑量，我們可以實現缺陷率一到兩個數量級的改善，進一步幫助客戶降低整體成本並提高 EUV 圖案化製程的能力。

Turning to NAND, AI applications are driving demand for faster, higher capacity enterprise SSDs. NAND makers are pursuing both vertical and lateral scaling of NAND arrays as well as increasing bits stored per cell through implementation of QLC and TLC technologies.

談到 NAND，人工智慧應用正在推動對更快、更高容量的企業級 SSD 的需求。 NAND 製造商正在追求 NAND 陣列的垂直和橫向擴展，並透過實施 QLC 和 TLC 技術來增加每個單元儲存的位數。

In support of these efforts, Lam is developing new dielectric etch and deposition capabilities. Earlier today, we announced Lam Cryo 3.0, Lam's third generation of cryogenic etch technology. Building on our learning from nearly 1,000 cryogenic etch chambers running in NAND fabs worldwide.

為了支持這些努力，Lam 正在開發新的電介質蝕刻和沈積能力。今天早些時候，我們發布了 Lam Cryo 3.0，這是 Lam 的第三代低溫蝕刻技術。基於我們從全球 NAND 晶圓廠運行的近 1,000 個低溫蝕刻室中獲得的經驗教訓。

This new patented cryogenic etch process delivers industry leading control of the NAND, memory channel whole profile. When Lam Cryo 3.0 is deployed on our Vantex system, the etcher delivering the industry's highest available ion energy, we can create a 10 micron deep channel hole that has a top to bottom profile deviation of less than 10 nanometers, or less than 0.1% relative to its depth.

這種新的專利低溫蝕刻製程可實現對 NAND、記憶體通道整體輪廓的行業領先控制。當Lam Cryo 3.0 部署在我們的Vantex 系統（該蝕刻機提供業界最高的可用離子能量）上時，我們可以創建10 微米深的通道孔，其頂部到底部輪廓偏差小於10 奈米，或相對偏差小於0.1 %到其深度。

Such tight profile control allows customers to increase bit density by packing more cells per layer, while also having the flexibility to add more layers per tier. Lam Cryo 3.0 also addresses our industry's need for more sustainable solutions, delivering a 40% reduction in energy consumption per wafer and a 90% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions per wafer compared to non-cryogenic etchers.

這種嚴格的輪廓控制允許客戶透過在每層封裝更多單元來增加位元密度，同時還可以靈活地在每層添加更多層。 Lam Cryo 3.0 也滿足了我們產業對更永續解決方案的需求，與非低溫蝕刻機相比，每片晶圓的能耗降低了40%，每片晶圓的溫室氣體排放量減少了90% 。

Deposition technology is also advancing quickly to support increased bit density and lower cost through multi-tier stacking. Poly silicon and tungsten gap fill materials have typically been used to enable tier stacking in high layer count NAND. Integration of these materials, however, has resulted in poor control of critical dimensions and overlay, negatively impacting yield and performance.

沉積技術也在快速發展，以透過多層堆疊來支援更高的位元密度和更低的成本。多晶矽和鎢間隙填充材料通常用於實現多層 NAND 中的層堆疊。然而，這些材料的整合導致了對關鍵尺寸和覆蓋層的控制不佳，從而對產量和性能產生了負面影響。

Lam's innovative PECVD-based pure carbon gap fill process provides an attractive alternative material. With a unique combination of high etch selectivity, superior mechanical properties, and simplified dry post-processing move ability, it also reduces the number of process steps required in some cases by approximately 50% compared to traditional approaches.

Lam 基於 PECVD 的創新純碳間隙填充工藝提供了一種有吸引力的替代材料。憑藉高蝕刻選擇性、卓越的機械性能和簡化的乾式後處理移動能力的獨特組合，與傳統方法相比，在某些情況下所需的製程步驟數減少了約 50%。

Overall, etch and deposition are becoming increasingly critical to addressing the complex semiconductor requirements of a growing AI environment. We are excited by the breadth of opportunities we see ahead for the company, especially those created by technology inflections to gate-all-around, backside power delivery, advanced packaging, and dry EUV resist processing.

總體而言，蝕刻和沈積對於滿足不斷發展的人工智慧環境的複雜半導體要求變得越來越重要。我們對公司未來面臨的廣泛機會感到興奮，特別是那些由環柵、背面供電、先進封裝和乾式 EUV 光阻處理技術變化所創造的機會。

All of these are etch and deposition intensive, and each represents a $1 billion or higher growth opportunity for Lam. We look forward to sharing our progress on these fronts as well as our long term financial model at our next Investor Day, which we are planning to hold in February 2025.

所有這些都是蝕刻和沈積密集型的，每一項都為 Lam 帶來 10 億美元或更高的成長機會。我們期待在下一次投資者日（我們計劃於 2025 年 2 月舉行）分享我們在這些方面的進展以及我們的長期財務模型。

With that, I'll turn it over to Doug.

有了這個，我會把它交給道格。

Great. Thank you, Tim. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our call today. We executed well on the June 2024 quarter. Our June quarter results came in above the midpoint or exceeded our guidance ranges for all financial metrics. We were pleased with the company's strong execution.

偉大的。謝謝你，提姆。大家下午好，感謝您今天加入我們的電話會議。我們在 2024 年 6 月季度執行得很好。我們六月季度的業績高於中點或超出了我們所有財務指標的指導範圍。我們對公司強大的執行力感到滿意。

For fiscal year 2024, we achieved the highest gross margin percentage since the merging of Lam with Novellus in 2013 coming in at 48.2% and we generated quite strong free cash flow of approximately $4.3 billion or 29% of revenue.

2024 財年，我們實現了自 2013 年 Lam 與 Novellus 合併以來的最高毛利率，達到 48.2%，並且產生了相當強勁的自由現金流，約為 43 億美元，佔營收的 29%。

Let's look at the details of our June quarter results. Revenue came in at $3.87 billion, which was an increase from the prior quarter and over the midpoint of guidance. Our deferred revenue balance at the end of the quarter was -- excuse me, $1.55 billion, which is a decrease of $194 million from the March quarter, related to revenue recognized that was tied to customer advance payments. As we sit here today, I believe deferred revenue remains stable at these levels for the foreseeable future.

讓我們來看看六月季度業績的詳細資訊。營收為 38.7 億美元，較上一季有所成長，且高於指導中位數。本季末我們的遞延收入餘額為 15.5 億美元，比 3 月季度減少了 1.94 億美元，這與與客戶預付款相關的確認收入有關。當我們今天坐在這裡時，我相信在可預見的未來，遞延收入將保持穩定在這些水平。

Let's turn to the revenue segment details. June quarter systems revenue and memory was 36%, which was a decrease from the prior quarter level of 44%. Decline in the memory segment was mainly attributable to DRAM. DRAM came in at 19% of systems revenue compared with 23% in the March quarter as investments in mature nodes declined in the June quarter.

讓我們來看看收入部分的詳細資訊。六月季度系統收入和記憶體為 36%，較上一季 44% 的水平有所下降。記憶體領域的下滑主要歸因於DRAM。 DRAM 佔系統收入的 19%，而 3 月季度為 23%，因為成熟節點的投資在 6 月季度有所下降。

DRAM revenue reached a new record in fiscal year 2024, with spending focused on DDR5 and HBM enablement as well as on the 1Y node. Non-volatile memory came in at 17% of our systems revenue, which was down from the March quarter level of 21%.

2024 財年 DRAM 收入創下新紀錄，支出主要集中在 DDR5 和 HBM 支援以及 1Y 節點上。非揮發性記憶體占我們系統收入的 17%，低於 3 月季度 21% 的水平。

And just a reminder, we are characterizing one customer's investment in specialty DRAM as a non-volatile investment since it has a non-volatile component in the device. Net revenue was at a low point for this year, and I expect NAND investment to gradually improve as utilization rates return to more normal levels and our customers slowly increase spending in conversions to 2XX and 3XX layer devices into the next year.

提醒一下，我們將一位客戶對特種 DRAM 的投資描述為非揮發性投資，因為它在設備中具有非揮發性組件。今年的淨收入處於低點，我預計隨著利用率恢復到更正常的水平，並且我們的客戶在明年慢慢增加轉換為 2XX 和 3XX 層設備的支出，NAND 投資將逐漸改善。

The foundry segment represented 43% of our system revenue, which was roughly flat with the percentage concentration in the March quarter of 44%. Growth in shipments for gate-all-around nodes was offset by a decline in mature node spending.

代工業務占我們系統收入的 43%，與 3 月季度的 44% 的百分比集中度大致相當。全柵節點出貨量的成長被成熟節點支出的下降所抵消。

The logic and other segment were 21% of system's revenue in the June quarter, up from the prior level of 12%. The increase was driven by strength in mature node spending in China.

邏輯和其他部分佔 6 月季度系統收入的 21%，高於先前的 12%。這一增長是由中國成熟節點支出的強勁推動的。

With respect to the regional composition of our total revenue, the China region came in at 39%, down slightly from the prior quarter level of 42% and a little bit higher than our expectation from previous earnings call. This was driven by domestic China spending.

就我們總收入的地區組成而言，中國地區佔 39%，略低於上一季 42% 的水平，略高於我們先前財報電話會議的預期。這是由中國國內支出所推動的。

The next largest geographic concentration was Korea at 18% of revenue in the June quarter versus 24% in the March quarter. Taiwan was 15% of revenue in the June quarter, which was an increase from 9% in the March quarter.

第二大地域集中地是韓國，佔 6 月季度營收的 18%，而 3 月季度為 24%。台灣地區佔 6 月季度營收的 15%，高於 3 月季度的 9%。

The Customer Support Business Group revenue in the June quarter totaled approximately $1.7 billion, an increase of 22% from the prior quarter level and 14% higher than the June quarter in calendar 2023. CSBG revenue represented 44% of our June quarter revenues and reached the highest point since the end of calendar 2022, driven primarily by an increase in Reliant systems, followed by growth in spares.

客戶支援業務集團 6 月季度營收總計約 17 億美元，比上一季水準成長 22%，比 2023 年 6 月季度高出 14%。的最高點，主要是由Reliant 系統的增加以及備件的成長所推動的。

Our Reliant systems revenue benefited from strength in domestic China spending for specialty and mature nodes. Spares revenue increased largely due to continued improvement in utilization at our memory customers as well as a little bit of inventory stocking. I do not think CSBG will grow modestly in calendar year 2024.

我們的 Reliant 系統收入受益於中國國內專業和成熟節點支出的強勁。備件收入的成長主要是由於我們的記憶體客戶的利用率持續提高以及少量庫存庫存。我認為 CSBG 在 2024 年不會出現溫和成長。

Let's look at profitability, our June quarter gross margin came in at 48.5% at the top end of our guided range. And slightly down from 48.7% in the March quarter. June quarter gross margin benefited from continued improvement in factory efficiencies, which largely offset the headwind we saw in customer mix that we talked about on the last earnings call.

讓我們看看獲利能力，我們 6 月季度的毛利率為 48.5%，處於我們指導範圍的上限。略低於 3 月季度的 48.7%。六月季度的毛利率受益於工廠效率的持續提高，這在很大程度上抵消了我們在上次財報電話會議上談到的客戶組合方面的不利因素。

Operating expenses for the June quarter were $689 million, down marginally from the prior quarter amount of $698 million. As Tim mentioned, we continue to prioritize spending in research and development to extend our technology differentiation as well as expand our product portfolio.

六月季度的營運支出為 6.89 億美元，略低於上一季的 6.98 億美元。正如蒂姆所提到的，我們繼續優先考慮研發支出，以擴大我們的技術差異化並擴大我們的產品組合。

I'd just point out that more than 70% of our total operating expenses were concentrated in research and development. The June quarter operating margin was 30.7% above the guidance range mainly because of that strong gross margin performance. Our non GAAP tax rate for the quarter was 11.5%. We estimate the tax rate for the remainder of calendar year 2024 to be in the low to mid-teens level and this rate will fluctuate from quarter to quarter.

我只想指出，我們總營運支出的 70% 以上都集中在研發上。 6 月季度的營業利潤率比指導範圍高出 30.7%，主要是因為毛利率表現強勁。我們本季的非 GAAP 稅率為 11.5%。我們估計 2024 年剩餘時間的稅率將處於青少年中低水平，並且該稅率將逐季度波動。

Other income and expense for the June quarter was approximately $19 million in income compared with $10 million in income in the March quarter. The increase in OI&E was primarily the result of fluctuations in the fair value of our venture investments. And as we've talked about in the past, you will see variability in OI&E quarter to quarter.

6 月季度的其他收入和支出約為 1,900 萬美元，而 3 月份季度的其他收入和支出為 1,000 萬美元。 OI&E的成長主要是由於我們創投的公允價值波動所致。正如我們過去所討論的，您會看到 OI&E 每個季度都有變化。

Let's turn to the capital return. We allocated approximately $382 million to share repurchases, and we paid $261 million in dividends in the June quarter. During the quarter, we announced that our Board of Directors approved a $10 billion share repurchase authorization.

讓我們轉向資本回報。我們分配了約 3.82 億美元用於股票回購，並在 6 月季度支付了 2.61 億美元的股息。本季度，我們宣布董事會批准了 100 億美元的股票回購授權。

We have $10.8 billion remaining in the plan at the end of the June quarter. For fiscal year 2024, we return to $3.7 billion or 88% of free cash flow, which was in line with our long term capital plan of returning 75% to 100% of free cash flow.

截至 6 月季度末，我們的計劃還剩 108 億美元。 2024 財年，我們將恢復 37 億美元，即 88% 的自由現金流，這符合我們恢復 75% 至 100% 自由現金流的長期資本計劃。

June quarter diluted earnings per share were $8.14, close to the high end of our guidance range. The diluted share count was 131 million shares on track with our expectations and down from the March quarter.

6 月季度稀釋後每股收益為 8.14 美元，接近我們指導範圍的上限。稀釋後的股數為 1.31 億股，符合我們的預期，但較 3 月季度有所下降。

Let's look at the balance sheet. Cash and cash equivalents totaled $5.9 billion at the end of the June quarter, up a little bit from $5.7 billion at the end of the March quarter. Day sales outstanding were 59 days in the June quarter, a slight increase from 57 days in the March quarter.

我們來看看資產負債表。截至 6 月季末，現金和現金等價物總額為 59 億美元，略高於 3 月季末的 57 億美元。 6 月季度的應收日銷售天數為 59 天，比 3 月季度的 57 天略有增加。

June quarter inventory turns of 1.9 times compared with 1.8 times in the prior quarter, we are making progress in bringing inventory levels down and we'll continue to work on this throughout the rest of calendar year 2024.

6 月季度的庫存週轉率為 1.9 倍，而上一季的庫存週轉率為 1.8 倍，我們在降低庫存水準方面正在取得進展，我們將在 2024 年剩餘時間內繼續努力實現這一目標。

Our non-cash expenses for the June quarter included approximately $79 million for equity compensation, $74 million in depreciation and $14 million in amortization. Capital expenditures were $101 million, flat with the March quarter level spending mainly centered on lab investments in the United States and Asia, as well as manufacturing facilities in Asia, supporting our global strategy to be close to our customers' development and manufacturing locations. We ended the June quarter with approximately 17,200 regular full time employees, which was flat with the prior quarter.

我們第二季的非現金支出包括約 7,900 萬美元的股權補償、7,400 萬美元的折舊和 1,400 萬美元的攤提。資本支出為 1.01 億美元，與 3 月份季度水準持平，支出主要集中在美國和亞洲的實驗室投資以及亞洲的製造設施，支持我們貼近客戶開發和製造地點的全球策略。截至 6 月季度末，我們擁有約 17,200 名正式全職員工，與上一季持平。

Let's turn to our non-GAAP guidance for the September 2024 quarter, we're expecting revenue of $4.05 billion plus or minus $300 million. Gross margin of 47% plus or minus 1 percentage point. This gross margin decline is reflective primarily of an unfavorable quarter to quarter change in customer mix. I expect this change to continue to be a slight incremental headwind in the December quarter.

讓我們來看看 2024 年 9 月季度的非 GAAP 指引，我們預期營收為 40.5 億美元上下 3 億美元。毛利率47%正負1個百分點。毛利率下降主要反映了客戶結構逐季度不利的變化。我預計這一變化將繼續成為 12 月季度的輕微增量阻力。

Operating margins of 29.5% plus or minus 1 percentage points. Gross margin and operating margin include an impact from ongoing transformation costs related to projects to improve our systems and operations. As we communicated at the beginning of the year, we're focused on reengineering our business processes and systems to drive operational efficiencies and to implement AI at greater scale.

營業利益率為29.5%正負1個百分點。毛利率和營業利潤率包括與改善我們的系統和營運的專案相關的持續轉型成本的影響。正如我們在年初所傳達的那樣，我們的重點是重新設計我們的業務流程和系統，以提高營運效率並更大規模地實施人工智慧。

And finally, we're forecasting earnings per share of $8 plus or minus $0.75 based on a share count of approximately 131 million shares.

最後，我們根據約 1.31 億股的股數預測每股收益為 8 美元上下 0.75 美元。

So let me wrap up. As we finish the first half of calendar year 2024, I was pleased that we were able to execute to the objectives we shared at the beginning of the year. We prioritize investment to extend our technology differentiation while driving operational improvements.

讓我總結一下。 2024 年上半年即將結束，我很高興我們能夠實現年初共同設定的目標。我們優先投資以擴大我們的技術差異化，同時推動營運改善。

We're encouraged that the spares business recovery is beginning and upgrade activity should improve as we exit the calendar year. Longer term, Lam is well positioned to capitalize the increase in etch and deposition intensity by delivering new capabilities of multiple new manufacturing inflections that we see ahead.

我們感到鼓舞的是，備件業務正在開始復甦，隨著我們退出日曆年，升級活動應該會有所改善。從長遠來看，林有能力透過提供我們未來看到的多種新製造拐點的新功能，充分利用蝕刻和沈積強度的增加。

We look forward to talking to you in February at our planned Investor Day about the long term opportunities for Lam to continue our performance in the semiconductor industry. Operator, that concludes our prepared remarks. Tim and I would now like to open up the call for questions.

我們期待在二月份規劃的投資者日與您討論 Lam 繼續我們在半導體行業業績的長期機會。接線員，我們準備好的發言到此結束。提姆和我現在想開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Tim Arcuri, UBS.

（操作員說明） Tim Arcuri，UBS。

Thanks a lot. Doug, I wanted to ask about the service system mix in the guidance. So you said that the service -- I thought you said that you now think it's going to grow modestly this year. But if I flatline service in September and December, it's up 8% year over year. So can you just clarify what you're thinking for service in the guidance? Thanks.

多謝。 Doug，我想問指南中的服務系統組合。所以你說這項服務——我想你說過你現在認為今年它會適度增長。但如果我在 9 月和 12 月保持服務不變，那麼它會比去年同期成長 8%。那麼您能否在指南中澄清一下您對服務的想法？謝謝。

Yeah, Tim, we don't decompose the individual components of the guide. You know, I was clarifying, we now expect CSBG to be up a little bit for the year. It was particularly strong in the June quarter whether it is up, down, or sideways from that as we go forward,, I'm not going to give you the individual components of the forecast. But I do think for the year it's going to grow a little bit.

是的，提姆，我們不會分解指南的各個組成部分。你知道，我之前澄清過，我們現在預計 CSBG 今年會有所上漲。在我們前進的過程中，無論是上漲、下跌還是橫盤整理，六月季度的表現尤其強勁，我不會向您提供預測的各個組成部分。但我確實認為今年它會有所成長。

Okay, great. Doug, thanks. And then can you can you talk a little bit about just in DRAM. I think there's generally more excitement, Tim, about DRAM WFE than NAND WFE among most investors out there about where it could go during this next peak.

好的，太好了。道格，謝謝。然後您能談談 DRAM 方面的情況嗎？提姆，我認為大多數投資者對 DRAM WFE 比 NAND WFE 在下一個高峰期的走向更加興奮。

Obviously, you do very well in NAND. But in DRAM, you did talk about a lot of the investments that you're making. Can you just talk about I know you're levered to the advanced packaging part of the HBM dollars being spent, but that's still a pretty small piece of it.

顯然，你們在 NAND 方面做得很好。但在 DRAM 領域，您確實談到了您正在進行的許多投資。您能談談嗎？ 我知道您已經利用了 HBM 資金中的先進封裝部分，但這仍然只是其中的一小部分。

So can you just maybe give a chance to kind of distill some of the view that you're not very levered to DRAM and give us a sense of maybe where you're investing and where you think you can gain share in DRAM? Thanks.

那麼，您能否給我們一個機會，提煉出一些觀點，即您對 DRAM 的利用程度不高，並讓我們了解您可能在哪些方面進行投資，以及您認為可以在哪些領域獲得 DRAM 份額？謝謝。

Sure. Thanks, Tim. And as you said, we do very well in NAND and we still think that NAND day is coming as I said. We've seen some of that -- those commentaries around the enterprise SSDs, et cetera. But on the DRAM side, the reason we highlighted, you know, the progress we're making especially in this conductor etch.

當然。謝謝，蒂姆。正如您所說，我們在 NAND 領域做得非常好，而且正如我所說，我們仍然認為 NAND 時代即將到來。我們已經看到了其中一些——那些圍繞企業級 SSD 的評論，等等。但在 DRAM 方面，我們強調的原因是我們特別是在導體蝕刻方面取得的進展。

I mean one, it's a new tool. We've introduced it. It's new capabilities that are very exciting for the industry and really targeted towards the types of ultra small structures that are known to exist will in future DRAM nodes going forward. Lam is the global leader in conductor etch, and so we're applying all of that expertise and learning we have towards future DRAM challenges. And I think there's tremendous opportunity for us on those applications as I pointed out.

我的意思是，它是一種新工具。我們已經介紹過了。這些新功能令業界非常興奮，真正針對的是已知未來 DRAM 節點中存在的超小型結構類型。 Lam 是導體蝕刻領域的全球領導者，因此我們正在運用我們所擁有的所有專業知識和知識來應對未來的 DRAM 挑戰。正如我所指出的，我認為這些應用程式對我們來說有巨大的機會。

The other side of it, a lot of the excitement around DRAM is related to HBM, and there as you commented, we play extremely well with our strong position in both TSV, etching as well as the TSV electroplating. And I think that we don't see any change in that strong position going forward.

另一方面，圍繞 DRAM 的許多令人興奮的事情都與 HBM 有關，正如您所評論的那樣，我們憑藉在 TSV、蝕刻以及 TSV 電鍍方面的強勢地位，發揮得非常好。我認為我們認為未來這一強勢地位不會發生任何變化。

So we get the benefit both from the scaling and architectural changes that are occurring in DRAM going forward and from the advanced packaging and HBM related expansion. And all of these on both of those sites have multiplied by the fact that you get fewer bits per wafer.

因此，我們從 DRAM 未來發生的擴展和架構變化以及先進封裝和 HBM 相關擴展中受益。這兩個站點上的所有這些都因每個晶圓獲得的位數更少而成倍增加。

And so everybody recognizes you're going to need a lot more DRAM wafers processed going forward. And ultimately, that translates into more equipment from Lam.

因此，每個人都認識到，未來將需要加工更多的 DRAM 晶圓。最終，這轉化為 Lam 提供的更多設備。

Thank you Tim.

謝謝蒂姆。

Thanks Tim.

謝謝蒂姆。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Krish Sankar, Cowen & Company.

克里什桑卡 (Krish Sankar)，考恩公司。

Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. My first one is with Doug. I think Doug you gave some color on China. Kind of curious how to think about China into the back half of this calendar year and into calendar '25 And along the same path you kind of mentioned that December quarter could be a slight more gross margin headwind. Is there a way to quantify how much that -- how many basis points of headwind would be in December compared to the 47% in September? And then I had a follow-up with Tim.

是的，嗨。感謝您提出我的問題。我的第一個是和道格。我認為道格你給了中國一些色彩。有點好奇如何看待今年下半年和25年的中國，沿著同樣的路徑，你提到12月季度可能會出現稍微更大的毛利率逆風。有沒有辦法量化 12 月的逆風與 9 月的 47% 相比有多少個基點？然後我對蒂姆進行了跟進。

Yeah, sure. Krish, I'll just remind you what we said last quarter, it hasn't really changed from this quarter and what that statement was that for the year '23, '24, China is up. However, it is a somewhat first half-weighted year this year, as opposed to last year, it was somewhat second half weighted.

好，當然。克里什，我只想提醒你我們上個季度說過的話，與本季相比並沒有真正改變，那個聲明是在 23、24 年，中國崛起了。然而，今年是上半年加權的一年，與去年相比，今年是下半年加權的。

I'm not communicating, hey, it's going away, it's not going away. It's just the spending because sometimes these customers are a little bit bigger than a bread box, it can be a little bit lumpy. And that's very much what we're seeing in China. I'm not ready to tell you exactly what next year looks like from the China region. But I do think it's going to be a pretty solid year, right?

我不溝通，嘿，它會消失，它不會消失。這只是支出，因為有時這些顧客比麵包盒大一點，它可能有點凹凸不平。這就是我們在中國看到的情況。我還沒準備好告訴你明年中國地區的具體情況。但我確實認為這會是非常充實的一年，對嗎？

Again, it's not going away. It's too soon for us to quantify things for next year, but '25 should be a pretty decent year in China, Krish.

再說一遍，它不會消失。現在對我們量化明年的情況還為時過早，但 25 年對中國來說應該是相當不錯的一年，Krish。

And then, Doug, any highlight on the December quarter gross margin?

然後，Doug，12 月季度毛利率有什麼亮點嗎？

You know, I'm not going to give you a number, Chris, but I've been signaling for a while because of customer mix, you know, margin will have a little bit of some headwind going into the second half of the year. I just guided you to 47% in September and suggested that there might be a little bit of incremental headwind into December because of customer mix as what I said in the script.

你知道，我不會給你一個數字，克里斯，但我已經發出了一段時間的信號，因為客戶組合，你知道，進入今年下半年，利潤率將面臨一些阻力。我剛剛在 9 月指導您達到 47%，並建議進入 12 月可能會出現一些增量逆風，因為正如我在腳本中所說的那樣，由於客戶組合的原因。

Got it. Thank you for that, Doug. And then, Tim, just a quick follow up. When I look at all the upcoming tech inflections like gate-all-around, backside power delivery, maybe down the road (inaudible) DRAM. You spoke within that the transition to products to 4F2 DRAM from 6F2.

知道了。謝謝你，道格。然後，蒂姆，請快速跟進。當我看到所有即將到來的技術變化時，例如全閘極、背面供電，也許還有未來的（聽不清楚）DRAM。您在其中談到了從 6F2 到 4F2 DRAM 產品的過渡。

I'm kind of curious, is that really that material? And if so, is there a way to size the opportunity for Lam at 4F2. You spoke a little bit [100 to etch] just kind of wondering if you could give some more color around how to quantify that number for the 4F2 architecture transition?

我很好奇，真的是這樣的材料嗎？如果是這樣，有沒有辦法衡量 Lam 在 4F2 的機會。您說了一點[100 to etch]，只是想知道您是否可以就如何量化 4F2 架構過渡的數字提供更多資訊？

Well, I don't think we're prepared to quantify it for you today, but I think that what my comment was we see each of these inflections and 6F2 to 4F2 is a technology inflection that brings with it some important changes. I mean one, the architectural layout of the device itself puts additional requirements on etch, which I think we're very well suited to serve.

好吧，我認為我們今天不准備為您量化它，但我認為我的評論是我們看到了這些變化，6F2 到 4F2 是一種技術變化，帶來了一些重要的變化。我的意思是，設備本身的架構佈局對蝕刻提出了額外的要求，我認為我們非常適合服務。

That's already been developing a new conductor etch capabilities to target those new requirements. So there is some incremental opportunity there. Clearly, the jump to 3D NAND is on a much bigger step up in etch depth intensity.

該公司已經在開發新的導體蝕刻功能來滿足這些新要求。所以那裡有一些增量機會。顯然，向 3D NAND 的跳躍在蝕刻深度強度上有了更大的提升。

But you know, our goal is to increase our SAM and grow our share at every technology node. So we look at whatever is the new requirement and how we can best address that. We also look as -- as you look at DRAM going forward, another thing that's happening, whether it's 6F2 or 4F2 is the implementation of more EUV layers and how Lam plays in EUV.

但你知道，我們的目標是增加我們的 SAM 並增加我們在每個技術節點的份額。因此，我們會研究新的要求以及如何最好地解決這個問題。我們也認為，當你展望 DRAM 的未來時，正在發生的另一件事，無論是 6F2 還是 4F2，都是更多 EUV 層的實現以及 Lam 在 EUV 中的表現。

Again, anything where effectively pattern transfer etches, the feature sizes are getting smaller, precision is required. These are the kinds of high tech etches that Lam excels at. And so we are looking to participate in those.

同樣，任何有效的圖案轉移蝕刻，特徵尺寸越來越小，都需要精度。這些都是 Lam 擅長的高科技蝕刻技術。因此，我們希望參與其中。

And then on the deposition side, of course, we've talked about things like our dry EUV resist process and how that plays into EUV on DRAM and foundry, logic transition from EUV to high end EUV. And so we're just looking at every technology node as an opportunity for us to gain.

當然，在沉積方面，我們討論了乾式 EUV 光阻製程等問題，以及它如何在 DRAM 和代工廠上發揮 EUV 的作用，以及從 EUV 到高端 EUV 的邏輯過渡。因此，我們只是將每個技術節點視為我們獲得的機會。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Krish.

謝謝，克里什。

Srinivas Pajjuri, Raymond James.

斯里尼瓦斯·帕朱里，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Thank you. Tim, I have a question on DRAM. Obviously the recovery has been ongoing and HBM is a secular driver that you talked about and you do have a very strong position in that market as well. And then I look at your revenue, I think it peaked around December of '23 and it's been kind of declining on a sequential basis.

謝謝。提姆，我有一個關於 DRAM 的問題。顯然，復甦一直在持續，HBM 是您談到的長期驅動因素，而且您在該市場也確實擁有非常強大的地位。然後我看看你們的收入，我認為它在 23 年 12 月左右達到頂峰，並且連續下降。

I'm guessing some of that is maybe mature node DRAM. Just wondering if you're kind of at the bottom and then given all the talk about HBM spending, I would think that, you know, it's going to kind of should at some point come back strongly. So just want to hear your thoughts on why it's been declining and how should we think about in particular in DRAM revenue?

我猜其中一些可能是成熟的節點 DRAM。只是想知道您是否處於底部，然後考慮到有關 HBM 支出的所有討論，我認為，您知道，它應該在某個時候強勁回歸。所以只是想聽聽您對為什麼它一直在下降以及我們應該如何思考，特別是在 DRAM 收入方面的想法？

Yeah, I think you generally have -- it's pretty correct. We had talked about the fact that some mature node DRAM spending was a little bit heavily concentrated in the second half of last year through early part of this year, even, and that came off, there was some of a reset in what we call kind of traditional or the conventional DRAM, that is being picked up at some rate by the growth in HBM. But HBM itself is still in its ramping phase.

是的，我認為你通常都有——這是非常正確的。我們曾討論過這樣一個事實，即一些成熟節點 DRAM 支出主要集中在去年下半年到今年年初，甚至，我們所說的類型出現了一些重置。的增長而有所回升。但 HBM 本身仍處於成長階段。

And I think as we look into 2025 becomes an even bigger driver of wafers in DRAM. And so I think that explains probably the profile. And I think that as we look forward, the secular driver of HBM, the impact on wafer, effectively how many wafers it requires to produce that number of bits due to the die size and due to the complexity of stacking these DRAM means that we see DRAM demand for DRAM equipment continued to grow through 2025 and probably well beyond that.

我認為，隨著我們展望 2025 年，DRAM 晶圓將成為更大的驅動力。所以我認為這可能解釋了這種情況。我認為，正如我們展望的那樣，HBM 的長期驅動因素、對晶圓的影響、由於晶片尺寸和堆疊這些 DRAM 的複雜性而需要多少晶圓來生產那麼多位數，意味著我們看到到2025年，DRAM 對DRAM 裝置的需求將持續成長，甚至可能遠遠超出此範圍。

Okay. Got it. Thank you. And then on the CSBG business being up 20% sequentially, 22%. I know you don't want to give us guidance going forward, at least for next quarter. I'm just curious about the sustainability of the some of the trends that you're seeing, Tim.

好的。知道了。謝謝。然後，CSBG 業務較上季成長 20%、22%。我知道您不想為我們提供未來的指導，至少是下個季度的指導。我只是對你所看到的一些趨勢的可持續性感到好奇，蒂姆。

And then what does that mean for the overall WFE? Is this a prelude to something? And is this just the utilization improving? And then does that usually follow in terms of WFE increasing in terms of new tech migrations or capacity additions. So any color on that would be helpful.

那麼這對整個 WFE 意味著什麼？這是某件事的前奏嗎？這僅僅是利用率的提高嗎？然後，通常會隨著新技術遷移或產能增加而增加 WFE。所以任何顏色都會有幫助。

Sure. It's a good question. And I guess, again, reminding people that the CSBG business includes our Reliant business, which sells into mature nodes. It includes spares, it includes upgrades and services. And so each of those components move somewhat differently and we talked about this quarter, particularly being strong as a result of Reliant and spares.

當然。這是一個好問題。我想，再次提醒人們，CSBG 業務包括我們的 Reliant 業務，該業務銷售到成熟的節點。它包括備件、升級和服務。因此，每個組件的走勢都略有不同，我們在本季度談到了這一點，特別是由於 Reliant 和備件而表現強勁。

We are starting to see a pickup in utilization in the memory fabs, as we've talked about and I've talked a little bit about the fact that as we look forward, we think that upgrades will begin to become a much more prominent part of our customers' WFE spending if they look to upgrade memory fabs that they really haven't been upgraded in quite some time because of the severe downturn that we've seen in that in those markets over the last few years.

我們開始看到內存工廠的利用率有所回升，正如我們所討論的，我也談到了這樣一個事實：隨著我們的展望，我們認為升級將開始成為一個更加突出的部分如果我們的客戶想要升級記憶體工廠，他們的WFE 支出實際上已經相當長一段時間沒有升級了，因為過去幾年我們看到這些市場的嚴重衰退。

And so I do think going forward, you see a little bit more of a balance between those different segments, upgrades coming up stronger, in spares continuing to grow simply because our installed base itself continues to get bigger.

因此，我確實認為，展望未來，您將看到這些不同細分市場之間的平衡，升級變得更強，備件繼續成長，只是因為我們的安裝基礎本身不斷擴大。

Traditionally, we would have always said that we would expect the CSBG business to grow every single year, and that's simply a fact of every year, we ship more tools and those tools then require services and spares and basically present new opportunities for Lam to capture revenue from those systems.

傳統上，我們總是說我們預計 CSBG 業務每年都會成長，這只是每年的事實，我們運送更多的工具，然後這些工具需要服務和備件，基本上為 Lam 提供了新的機會來捕捉來自這些系統的收入。

So I think long term, CSBG will be returning back to that growth and in next year probably much more biased towards the upgrades business as customers start to do memory fab upgrades.

因此，我認為從長遠來看，CSBG 將恢復成長勢頭，並且隨著客戶開始進行記憶體工廠升級，明年可能會更加偏向升級業務。

Got it.

知道了。

Thanks Srini.

謝謝斯里尼。

Thanks Tim.

謝謝蒂姆。

CJ Muse, Cantor Fitzgerald.

CJ 繆斯、坎托·費茲傑拉。

Yeah, good afternoon. Thank you for taking the question. I guess first question, I was hoping to focus on gross margins. A couple of quarters ago, Doug you talked about kind of looking back to the June kind of '23 quarter as normalized.

是的，下午好。感謝您提出問題。我想第一個問題是，我希望關注毛利率。幾個季度前，Doug 您談到了回顧 6 月的 23 季常態化。

But given the guide today, it sounds like that was conservative and it's a higher number. So just as you think about calendar '25, as you get to kind of a normalized China mix and you normalize to Reliant, what would be kind of the base level we should be thinking about for gross margins? And then can you talk to what kind of accretion we should be thinking about related to Malaysia and or some of these higher margin upgrade drivers?

但考慮到今天的指南，這聽起來像是保守的，而且這個數字更高。因此，正如您考慮 25 年日曆一樣，當您進入標準化的中國組合併標準化為 Reliant 時，我們應該考慮毛利率的基本水平是多少？然後您能否談談我們應該考慮與馬來西亞和/或一些更高利潤升級驅動因素相關的哪種增長？

Yeah. CJ, I mean, you've alluded to some of the things that move gross margin and obviously yeah, I had previously anchored you and others back to that June quarter before the China mix improved or strengthened, I guess maybe not improved as the baseline in guiding to down a little bit in September, described customer mix softening a little bit relative to move in that.

是的。 CJ，我的意思是，您提到了一些影響毛利率的因素，顯然，是的，我之前曾將您和其他人鎖定在中國組合改善或加強之前的六月季度，我想可能沒有像基線那樣改善在 9 月的指引中，客戶組合相對於移動有所軟化。

And I'm not suggesting, hey, a little bit more in December, potentially. It's all about customer mix. It's too soon for me to guide you for next year. But the things you should be thinking about is what does that customer mix look like next year.

我並不是建議，嘿，12 月可能會多一點。這完全取決於客戶組合。現在對我來說指導你明年還為時過早。但您應該考慮的是明年的客戶組合會是什麼樣子。

I'm not sure yet, and I'm not ready to point it to numbers. But what will begin to show up in a more significant fashion is the accretion from those Asia factories as we ramp up, that will be a benefit to gross margins. So those are the moving pieces to be thinking about.

我還不確定，也不準備用數字來說明。但隨著我們的擴張，這些亞洲工廠的增加將開始以更重要的方式出現，這將有利於毛利率。因此，這些都是需要考慮的動態因素。

The customer mix, I'm not entirely sure. But as we see a likely WFE environment next year, that's somewhat stronger, increasingly, the incremental volume will be supported from those Asia factories, which should be beneficial to gross margin CJ.

客戶組合，我不完全確定。但正如我們看到明年可能出現的 WFE 環境一樣，這種情況會更加強勁，增量將越來越多地受到這些亞洲工廠的支持，這應該有利於 CJ 的毛利率。

Very helpful. And then I guess as my follow-up. In your prepared remarks, you spoke to 7,500 high aspect ratio etch chambers installed in the NAND industry. And just curious, as you see upgrades there, what kind of growth could that add to overall mid NAND WFE specific to you guys? Is there kind of percentage we should think about? Any help there would be great.

很有幫助。然後我想作為我的後續行動。在您準備好的發言中，您談到了 NAND 行業安裝的 7,500 個高深寬比蝕刻室。只是好奇，當您看到那裡的升級時，這會為您帶來什麼樣的成長？我們應該考慮某種百分比嗎？任何幫助都會很棒。

We haven't really quantified that. But the reason I included was simply to point out the installed base itself becomes a powerful driver of revenue during those upgrade cycles. And we do think that the next phase we've seen higher memory fab utilization typically we've talked about the NAND beginning to improve last quarter and that seems to be continuing as we move through the remainder of this year.

我們還沒有真正量化這一點。但我加入的原因只是為了指出安裝基礎本身在這些升級週期中成為收入的強大驅動力。我們確實認為下一階段我們會看到更高的記憶體工廠利用率，通常我們已經談到 NAND 上個季度開始改善，而且隨著今年剩餘時間的推移，這種情況似乎仍在持續。

You'll get to next year and the upgrades start in earnest. Those tools represent opportunities for Lam to help our customers achieve both a technology upgrade and a bit cost reduction as they move forward and accrues a quite a lot of revenue for Lam relative to the amount of WFE spend.

到了明年，升級就會正式開始。這些工具為 Lam 提供了機會，幫助我們的客戶實現技術升級和降低成本，並為 Lam 帶來相對於 WFE 支出金額相當多的收入。

I'll remind people that the WFE Lam's capture rate of spending in an upgrade is significantly higher because etch and deposition represents so much of the upgrade. So that was the reason to point out the size of our installed base.

我要提醒人們的是，WFE Lam 的升級支出捕獲率明顯更高，因為蝕刻和沈積佔據了升級的大部分。這就是指出我們的安裝基礎規模的原因。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Thanks CJ.

謝謝希傑。

Stacy Rasgon, Bernstein Research.

史黛西‧拉斯貢，伯恩斯坦研究中心。

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Just wanted to ask like if the NAND business next year is primarily driven by upgrades, what does that imply for growth? Like would it be conceivable that NAND and WFE could double year over year in calendar '25 that was purely upgrade driven? Or would you need capacity additions to get there? Are you seeing any signs at all of capacity additions right now? Doesn't sound like it.

嗨，大家好。感謝您提出我的問題。只是想問，如果明年的 NAND 業務主要由升級驅動，這對成長意味著什麼？可以想像，在純粹由升級驅動的 25 年日曆中，NAND 和 WFE 可能會逐年翻倍嗎？或者您需要增加容量才能實現這一目標？您現在是否看到任何產能增加的跡象？聽起來不像。

Well, Stacy, what I would say is that obviously we're not going to guide what NAND WFE is next year, frankly, I think it's still a developing story. But what we're trying to say is that as customers move to upgrades, whatever WFE is spent, Lam will be the primary beneficiary of that WFE spend.

好吧，Stacy，我想說的是，顯然我們不會指導明年的 NAND WFE，坦白說，我認為這仍然是一個正在發展的故事。但我們想說的是，隨著客戶轉向升級，無論 WFE 花費多少，Lam 將是 WFE 支出的主要受益者。

And so that's a year in which my comment was we would be confident that we would outgrow WFE in the NAND space if it was primarily upgrade spend. And upgrades represent a tremendous the efficient way for customers to essentially advance our technology and lower their costs and so we do think that will be the next phases of NAND investment based on our thoughts.

因此，在這一年中，我的評論是，如果主要是升級支出，我們有信心在 NAND 領域的成長將超過 WFE。升級代表了客戶從根本上推進我們的技術並降低成本的巨大有效方式，因此我們確實認為，根據我們的想法，這將是 NAND 投資的下一階段。

Got it. And maybe to follow up on that, just a little bit. I mean, if I -- if you look at your current like NAND outlook for this year, would you say that, that outlook has gotten better or worse or stayed the same versus like 90 days ago.

知道了。也許是為了跟進這一點，只是一點點。我的意思是，如果我 - 如果你看看今年的 NAND 前景，你會說，與 90 天前相比，前景變得更好還是更糟，還是保持不變。

Probably hasn't changed much. Stacey, this is Doug. Maybe a little bit better. We're trying to see a little bit of an uptick in utilization, but I don't think it's meaningfully different, Stacey.

大概沒有太大改變。史黛西，這是道格。也許好一點。我們試圖看到利用率上升，但我認為這沒有什麼意義，Stacey。

So got it. So it's kind of a noise.

所以明白了。所以這是一種噪音。

Yeah, kind in the noise.

是的，在噪音中很友善。

Got it. Okay that's helpful. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

知道了。好的，這很有幫助。感謝你們。欣賞它。

Sure. Thanks Stacey.

當然。謝謝史黛西。

Thanks Stacey.

謝謝史黛西。

Harlan Sur, JPMorgan.

哈蘭‧蘇爾，摩根大通。

Yeah, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. Given the strength in CSBG, it looks like utilization by your customer base continues to rise. Did that also broaden out to start to include not just leading etch, logic, foundry, DRAM, and NAND, but maybe also start to include mature and specialty fabs as well or are at a minimum mature and specialty utilization at least stabilizing in line with some of the cyclical improvements that were seen in the semi industry.

是的，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。鑑於 CSBG 的實力，您的客戶群的利用率似乎持續上升。這是否也擴大到開始不僅包括領先的蝕刻、邏輯、代工、DRAM 和 NAND，而且可能也開始包括成熟和專業晶圓廠，或者至少成熟和專業利用率至少穩定在半成品行業出現了一些週期性的改善。

Harlan, the mature nodes stuff is still pretty soft, frankly. And I think you understand what's going on. If you just listen to everybody else's earnings calls in the analog, industrial, automotive space, and I know there's still a lot of inventory out there. It's still relatively soft. Those statements are making our utilization have more to do with what we're seeing in the memory fabs, quite frankly.

Harlan，坦白說，成熟節點的東西仍然相當柔軟。我想你明白髮生了什麼事。如果你聽聽模擬、工業、汽車領域其他人的財報電話會議，我就知道那裡仍然有大量庫存。還是比較軟的。坦白說，這些陳述使我們的利用率與我們在記憶體工廠中看到的情況有更多關係。

I appreciate that. And then on HBM and advanced packaging, I mean last night, we heard AMD talk about supply dynamics being tight on the AI GPU supply next year, co-loss and HBM. On the custom ASIC front, we heard companies like Broadcom keep getting upside orders from their AI customers like Google.

我很感激。然後關於 HBM 和先進封裝，我的意思是昨晚，我們聽到 AMD 談論明年 AI GPU 供應、共同損失和 HBM 的供應動態緊張。在客製化 ASIC 方面，我們聽說 Broadcom 等公司不斷從 Google 等人工智慧客戶那裡獲得上行訂單。

Last quarter, you talked about doing $1 billion in advanced packaging and HBM revenues this year. Has that number moved higher and is the team capacity constrained on advanced packaging systems and are your lead times here for those tools starting to stretch out?

上個季度，您談到今年先進封裝和 HBM 收入將達到 10 億美元。這個數字是否有上升？

Well, it has moved higher and we're not going to requantified just yet, but it is -- we're seeing very strong demand in those areas. I talked about the expansion of our global manufacturing supply chain footprint, and obviously, that's given us more flexibility than we had during the last ramp. Our goal through all those investments was people to respond.

嗯，它已經走高了，我們還不打算重新量化，但我們看到這些領域的需求非常強勁。我談到了我們全球製造供應鏈足跡的擴張，顯然，這給了我們比上次擴張期間更大的靈活性。我們透過所有這些投資的目標是讓人們做出回應。

In this next year, a few years of expansion better than we did in the expansion that we saw right around the time of COVID. And so I think that will position us. I'm sure you're always a little bit short and customers always drop in tools within your lead time and which keeps you busy. But I think that we're doing quite a nice job of responding to the urgent request from our customers.

明年，幾年的擴張比我們在新冠疫情期間看到的擴張要好。所以我認為這將為我們定位。我確信您的時間總是有點短，而且客戶總是會在您的交貨時間內提供工具，這讓您很忙。但我認為我們在回應客戶的緊急要求方面做得相當好。

We actually like this. Yeah, I would say that generally from running the business, we like this environment where all parts of our business are a little bit supply constrained. I mean, you hear a lot of our customers talking about being cautious about adding capacity, other customers talking about having a little problem getting tools.

我們其實喜歡這個。是的，我想說，一般來說，從經營業務的角度來看，我們喜歡這種環境，我們業務的所有部分都有點供應受限。我的意思是，您聽到我們的許多客戶談論對增加容量持謹慎態度，其他客戶則談論在獲取工具時遇到一些問題。

I think that's a good place for us to be because it means that I think we're setting up for a more manageable, long term ramp of demand, than sort of a short spike followed by, again, periods of digestion that always creates a little bit of chaos in the industry.

我認為這對我們來說是一個好地方，因為這意味著我認為我們正在為更易於管理的長期需求增長做好準備，而不是短暫的高峰，然後是消化期，總是會產生行業內有點混亂。

Thank you, Tim. Thanks, Doug.

謝謝你，提姆。謝謝，道格。

Thanks Harlan.

謝謝哈蘭。

Thanks Harlan.

謝謝哈蘭。

Atif Malik, Citi.

阿蒂夫·馬利克，花旗銀行。

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Doug, if I look at between '23 year-over-year, China sales growth among the big five equipment makers, all of them are quite well, my estimate is that by 250% and the US peers are up mid-teens or 20%, but you guys were down 11% total China sales in 2023.

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。道格，如果我看看 23 年間，五家大型設備製造商在中國的銷售成長情況，它們都相當不錯，我的估計是 250%，而美國同行則增長了 15% 或 20% %，但2023年中國總銷售額下降了11%。

And this year, you're expecting your China sales to be up. So I'm just trying to understand the dynamics, last year, were this just a function of maybe NAND spending and the NAND project not being active or are there competitive elements in China that are working against you?

今年，您預計您的中國銷售額將會上升。所以我只是想了解去年的動態，這只是 NAND 支出和 NAND 專案不活躍的結果，還是中國存在對你不利的競爭因素？

Atif, I remind you that perhaps our largest customer got restricted when the regulations come out, our NAND customer in China. That customer was pretty strong in '22, went away in '23. So the year-over-year comparisons you're making, you've got to factor that in.

Atif，我提醒您，當法規出台時，也許我們最大的客戶——我們在中國的 NAND 客戶——受到了限制。該客戶在 22 年非常強大，但在 23 年就消失了。因此，在進行逐年比較時，您必須考慮這一點。

And then the strength we're seeing '23 to 24 is a different mix entirely. Clearly not any NAND in China to speak of at least not domestic China. I don't know if that helps you, but make sure you're thinking about that.

然後我們看到 23 到 24 的實力是完全不同的組合。顯然中國沒有任何NAND可言，至少中國國內沒有。我不知道這是否對你有幫助，但請確保你正在考慮這一點。

Yeah, I'll make sure, that's helpful. And then on the cryo improvement, Tim, that you mentioned, are those improvement are process tool-of-record is going to solidify your market share next year or the year after?

是的，我會確保，這很有幫助。然後，關於低溫改進，蒂姆，您提到，這些改進是工藝記錄工具，會在明年或後年鞏固您的市場份額嗎？

Well, I think that it's all of these things and when you introduce something new, I think what people can lose sight of is generally we're working several years ahead with our customers on R&D. I talked about the investments we're making where we make -- we're building labs close to our customers in different geographies.

嗯，我認為這就是所有這些事情，當你推出新的東西時，我認為人們通常會忽略的是我們與客戶一起提前幾年進行研發。我談到了我們在當地進行的投資——我們正在不同地區的客戶附近建立實驗室。

That's because, in many cases, we're engaging those customers a good five years ahead of production implementation. That's not to say Lam Cryo 3.0 is going to take five years to get into production. But it's not a technology disramping, say this year, but it really is looking out at the needs of our customers one or two generations out and really solving their difficult etch challenges.

這是因為，在許多情況下，我們在生產實施前五年就與這些客戶進行了接觸。這並不是說 Lam Cryo 3.0 需要五年才能投入生產。但這並不是今年的技術阻礙，而是真正著眼於一兩代人之後客戶的需求，並真正解決他們困難的蝕刻挑戰。

So sometimes when the benefits are so good and I talked about the fact that we get about 2.5x the etch rate, tremendous profile control. Yeah, customers often say that in sooner, but really this is designed for kind of the 400 plus layer may ultimately end up being pulled in earlier than that. But that's where you really start to see the needs for this kind of capability.

因此，有時當效益非常好時，我談到了這樣一個事實：我們獲得了大約 2.5 倍的蝕刻速率，以及巨大的輪廓控制。是的，客戶經常說會更早，但實際上這是為 400 層以上而設計的，最終可能會比這更早被拉入。但這才是您真正開始看到對這種功能的需求的地方。

(multiple speakers) Exactly I was asking about is it 400 layers or 200 layers, but it sounds like [400] layer.

（多個發言者）我剛剛問的是 400 層還是 200 層，但聽起來像 [400] 層。

Yeah. And I think that what you'll see in our press release today we talked a little bit about we are trying to chart the path across not only etch, but also our depth position films towards more of the industry needs to go to get to a 1,000 layers because we truly see over the next decade that that's where you want to get in terms of satisfying bit density and cost as NAND demand continues to expand with AI.

是的。我認為，您將在今天的新聞稿中看到，我們談到了我們不僅試圖繪製蝕刻路徑，而且我們的深度定位電影需要走向更多的行業，以達到一個目標。 ，在接下來的十年中，隨著NAND 需求隨著人工智慧的不斷擴大，這就是您想要滿足的位元密度和成本方面的需求。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Toshiya Hari, Goldman Sachs.

Toshiya Hari，高盛。

Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking the question. I joined late. So I do apologize if these questions have been addressed. Just on the third generation cryo tool, Tim, you spoke about. How is this technology tool fundamentally different or better than your nearest competitor.

嗨，大家好。非常感謝您提出這個問題。我加入得很晚。因此，如果這些問題得到解決，我深表歉意。提姆，你談到了第三代冷凍工具。該技術工具與最接近的競爭對手有何根本不同或更好？

I know you just spoke to some of the characteristics, but if you can clarify that for us to the extent you're comfortable, that would be really, really helpful.

我知道您剛剛談到了一些特徵，但如果您能在您感到舒適的範圍內向我們澄清這一點，那將非常非常有幫助。

And then my second question, again on the CSBG side, probably one for Doug. And again, you may have address this. So for the full year, calendar year, I think you previously said flattish plus or minus. Is that still the view or given the strength you saw in June, is that -- should we be thinking about a higher growth rate for the full year? Thank you.

然後是我的第二個問題，同樣是針對 CSBG 方面，可能是問 Doug 的。再說一次，你可能已經解決了這個問題。因此，對於全年、日曆年，我認為您之前說過持平的正負。這仍然是這種觀點嗎？謝謝。

Toshiya, maybe I'll take that first and then I'll let Tim comment on the 3.0 stuff. Yeah, you might have missed my scripted statements. As we sit here today, we now expect that for 2024, CSBG, the word I used was modestly grow this year versus last year and part of that is we saw particularly strength in the June quarter in Reliant, little bit of an improvement in spares.

Toshiya，也許我會先考慮這個，然後我會讓 Tim 對 3.0 的內容發表評論。是的，你可能錯過了我的腳本陳述。當我們今天坐在這裡時，我們現在預計2024 年，CS​​BG，我使用的這個詞今年與去年相比略有增長，部分原因是我們看到Reliant 在6 月季度特別強勁，備件略有改善。

And as we think about the utilization trends that are likely occurring with our memory customers, I think spares continues to be decent. And we're optimistic that we'll start to see some of the upgrades spend that we've been talking about for a while.

當我們考慮記憶體客戶可能出現的使用率趨勢時，我認為備件仍然不錯。我們樂觀地認為，我們將開始看到我們已經討論了一段時間的一些升級支出。

I'll hand it over to Tim on the 3.0 stuff.

我會把 3.0 的事情交給 Tim。

Sure, Doug. I think obviously, what I would just start with is the biggest difference between what we're delivering Lam Cryo 3.0 and what our competitors do is in the results on the wafer, which we talked about, pretty amazing 10 micron deep holes with less than a 10 nanometer taper from top to bottom.

當然，道格。我想顯然，我首先要說的是，我們提供的 Lam Cryo 3.0 與我們的競爭對手所做的最大區別在於晶圓上的結果，我們談到了這一點，非常驚人的 10 微米深孔，小於從上到下有10 奈米的錐度。

At etch rates that are 2.5 times conventional etching. So it's the results that are pretty amazing. We talked about the fact that this is based on some new surface chemistries that are enabled in our tool. And there's a whole combination of hardware issue -- hardware configuration capabilities and our tool I think allow us to achieve that result.

蝕刻速率是傳統蝕刻的 2.5 倍。所以結果是相當驚人的。我們談到了這樣一個事實：這是基於我們的工具中啟用的一些新的表面化學物質。這是硬體問題的一個整體組合——硬體配置功能和我們的工具，我認為讓我們能夠實現這一結果。

And I can't go into all of those details today, but it is -- I did allude to one of them, which is on our Vantex system. The chamber design allows us to deliver a significantly higher ion energy than what is available from any other system available in the semiconductor industry and that does place some role in etching these very, very deep near -- holes with near perfect verticality. So that's about all I can say today.

今天我無法詳細介紹所有這些細節，但我確實提到了其中一個，它位於我們的 Vantex 系統上。這個腔室設計使我們能夠提供比半導體行業中任何其他系統更高的離子能量，並且這確實在蝕刻這些非常非常深的近孔且具有近乎完美的垂直度方面發揮了一定作用。這就是我今天能說的全部。

Thank you. Appreciate it.

謝謝。欣賞它。

Thanks Toshiya.

謝謝俊哉。

Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

喬摩爾，摩根士丹利。

Great. Thank you. I wanted to ask you, I mean, there's been a number of press concerns about export controls with talking about the foreign direct product rule, which doesn't seem like it would affect you, but also talking about entity list. And I'm just wondering obviously we don't know what would happen with any of that. But are you seeing any different behavior from your China customers? Are you seeing them push things in or pull things -- push things out because of any of those anxieties?

偉大的。謝謝。我想問你，我的意思是，有很多媒體對出口管製表示擔憂，他們談論外國直接產品規則，這似乎不會影響你，但也談論實體清單。我只是想知道我們顯然不知道會發生什麼。但您是否發現中國客戶的行為有何不同？你是否看到他們因為這些焦慮而將東西推入或拉出？

Yeah, Joe, I think that obviously we don't know exactly what's going to happen either just as you said. And so we can't really speculate on that. I have mentioned in the last couple of calls that there are ongoing discussions all the time with the US government and regulatory agencies. We're part of those discussions and we'll continue to be.

是的，喬，我認為顯然我們也不知道會發生什麼，就像你說的那樣。所以我們不能對此進行真正的推測。我在過去幾次電話中提到，我們一直在與美國政府和監管機構進行討論。我們是這些討論的一部分，並將繼續參與。

I think, in terms of change in behavior by any of our customers, I don't think it's something that's noticeable nor would it be something that we would be able to easily react to. We've talked about how we deal with some of these new customers that emerge with the downpayments and other things to make sure that we understand the those customers as viable customers.

我認為，就我們任何客戶的行為變化而言，我認為這不是引人注目的事情，也不是我們能夠輕易做出反應的事情。我們已經討論瞭如何處理一些透過首付款和其他方式出現的新客戶，以確保我們將這些客戶理解為可行的客戶。

But beyond that, we service them like others at this point as long as we can ship to them. And I would say lead times and responsiveness from our perspective is same as we treat any customers of those size.

但除此之外，只要我們能夠運送給他們，我們就會像其他人一樣為他們提供服務。我想說，從我們的角度來看，交貨時間和回應能力與我們對待任何此類規模的客戶是一樣的。

Very helpful. Thank you.

很有幫助。謝謝。

Thanks, Joe.

謝謝，喬。

Blayne Curtis, Jefferies.

布萊恩·柯蒂斯，杰弗里斯。

Hey thanks for letting me ask question. I actually I know you got a couple on this, Doug, on the China business. I just kind of curious your -- I think you qualified as a solid year next year, I just didn't know what that meant?

嘿，謝謝你讓我提問。事實上，我知道你對中國業務有一些看法，道格。我只是有點好奇你的——我認為你明年有資格成為一個穩定的一年，我只是不知道這意味著什麼？

So I know you've been hesitant to kind of call China, I think you called it like flat plus or minus, maybe up or down last time. Do you feel better about it, I guess outside of this June that's the other kind of part of the question, just if you can qualify a little bit, I mean you should have some idea of what you're going to ship and pay ahead.

所以我知道你一直在猶豫是否要給中國打電話，我想你上次把它稱為平加或減，也許是上升或下降。你感覺好點了嗎，我想在今年六月之外，這是問題的另一部分，只是如果你能稍微符合條件，我的意思是你應該對你要運送和提前付款的東西有一些了解。

So was June kind of a cleanup and it might be a bit lumpy and or is China actually trending a bit better for you?

那麼，六月是一次大清理嗎？

I don't know Blayne that I'm trying to communicate anything any different than we said on the last call, to be honest with you. We described this year as somewhat first half-weighted, really no change to that. The June quarter was maybe a little tiny bit stronger in China, but only a little tiny bit.

老實說，我不知道布萊恩我試圖傳達的訊息與我們上次通話時所說的話有什麼不同。我們將今年描述為上半年加權，實際上沒有變化。中國六月季度的表現可能稍微強一點，但也只是一點點。

It's too soon for me to -- for us to quantify 2025. But what I would tell you is I expect next year to be a solid year in terms of spending in China. I'm not going to give you a number yet because I'm not completely sure. But what I wouldn't want anybody to think is it's going to away, because it's not.

對我來說，量化 2025 年還為時過早。我不會給你一個數字，因為我不完全確定。但我不希望任何人認為它會消失，因為它不會。

Got you. And then I'm just kind of curious, the broad strokes was growth for next year. I know you don't want to give a forecast. But in terms of the moving pieces there, I mean, it's pretty, leading etch is strong. DRAM has been strong. I'm just kind of curious as you look into that forecast if you're willing to venture a kind of a view on the NAND business.

明白你了。然後我只是有點好奇，整體目標是明年的成長。我知道你不想給預測。但就那裡的移動部件而言，我的意思是，它很漂亮，領先的蝕刻很強。 DRAM 一直表現強勁。我只是有點好奇，當你研究這個預測時，你是否願意對 NAND 業務提出某種看法。

Here, I think NAND starting next year has to be greater than it is this year, right? We're off two years of quite low spending in NAND. I don't know to what magnitude I expect next year. We expect next year you're going to see a lot of upgrades in NAND but too soon for us to give you a number, but I would be shocked if it's not stronger than it is this year, it has to be.

在這裡，我認為明年開始的 NAND 一定會比今年更大，對嗎？我們已經擺脫了兩年來 NAND 支出相當低的局面。我不知道明年我期望達到什麼程度。我們預計明年您將看到 NAND 的大量升級，但我們現在給您具體數字還為時過早，但如果它不比今年更強，我會感到震驚，但它必須如此。

Thanks Doug.

謝謝道格。

Yeah. Thanks Blayne.

是的。謝謝布萊恩。

Joe Quatrochi, Wells Fargo.

喬·夸特羅奇，富國銀行。

Yeah, thanks for taking the question. I wanted to try on the NAND side again, if we just think about your prior peak NAND revenue (inaudible) your customers that are obviously now restricted, can capacity upgrade to just higher layer counts support your return to those levels, just given your higher share etch -- of higher etch and depth intensity for the transitions?

是的，感謝您提出問題。我想再次嘗試NAND 方面，如果我們只考慮您之前的NAND 峰值收入（聽不清楚）您的客戶現在顯然受到限制，容量升級到更高的層數是否可以支持您恢復到這些水平，只要您的更高共享蝕刻－過渡的蝕刻和深度強度更高？

Joe, you know, if it's just an upgrade, your spending will be lower than when capacity gets added. Obviously, our share of wallet will be greater. The fact that we lost a pretty large NAND customer churn in the China region, hard to replace that. I'm not ready to tell you what kind of next year is relative to previous peaks. But I know next year is going to be a stronger year in NAND than it is this year for sure.

喬，您知道，如果只是升級，您的支出將低於增加容量時的支出。顯然，我們的錢包份額會更大。事實上，我們在中國地區失去了相當大的 NAND 客戶流失率，這一點很難取代。我還沒準備好告訴你明年相對於之前的高峰是什麼樣的。但我知道明年 NAND 肯定會比今年更強勁。

Yeah, Joe. I think that yeah, obviously, we're talking next year, it's very specific to the demand environment and the upgrade business in 2025. Longer term, I mean, we've laid out in our view is that NAND spending rises. And so it's just a matter of the time frame you're looking at.

是的，喬。我認為，是的，顯然，我們正在談論明年，它非常具體於 2025 年的需求環境和升級業務。所以這只是你所考慮的時間範圍的問題。

And from the standpoint of Lam's business, etch and depth components and the complexity of [tier] stacking, the precision that's required for implementation of QLC and PLC technologies, all of these skewed towards Lam's technical strengths and also SAM expansion opportunities.

從 Lam 業務的角度來看，蝕刻和深度組件以及[層]堆疊的複雜性、實施 QLC 和 PLC 技術所需的精度，所有這些都傾向於 Lam 的技術優勢和 SAM 擴展機會。

I talked about the PECVD pure carbon gap fill process, which is a new addition to the portfolio for NAND scaling technology, going forward. And so, if I go back and I look at where we were in the portfolio, we had to sell when people used to think of NAND is a very, very strong business for Lam.

我談到了 PECVD 純碳間隙填充工藝，這是未來 NAND 縮放技術產品組合中的新成員。因此，如果我回頭看看我們在投資組合中的位置，當人們過去認為 NAND 對 Lam 來說是一項非常非常強大的業務時，我們就不得不出售。

We've expanded that portfolio quite substantially with the gap fill, the backside stress management, the ALD oxide gap fill process plus the etch and stack depth that we've always had as well as metallization. So it's one of growth in NAND demand, but also growth in Lam's portfolio and served market as well, opportunities ahead. So I think that bodes well for us once the NAND business itself starts to recover.

我們透過間隙填充、背面應力管理、ALD 氧化物間隙填充製程以及我們一直擁有的蝕刻和堆疊深度以及金屬化，大幅擴展了該產品組合。因此，這是 NAND 需求的成長之一，也是 Lam 投資組合和服務市場的成長，以及未來的機會。因此，我認為一旦 NAND 業務本身開始復甦，這對我們來說是個好兆頭。

Thank you. That's helpful color. And just as a quick follow-up. You talked about global mature node spending being roughly flat this year. Can you help us understand just kind of how does that break down I mean -- I think clearly the non-China piece is pretty weak, but just any kind of color that you could help us parse that out.

謝謝。這是有用的顏色。就像快速跟進。您談到今年全球成熟節點支出大致持平。你能幫助我們理解它是如何分解的嗎？ 我的意思是——我認為顯然非中國部分相當弱，但你可以幫助我們解析出任何一種顏色。

Yeah. You kind of answered your own question, you know. China is decent right now. Outside of China, it's pretty soft. And I think you understand what's going on. There's inventory that's built up for these inventories still need to come down and then mature node, analog, industrial, automotive space, and investment won't meaningfully occur until that gets adjusted. So that's kind of what's going on. And you sort of answered your own question.

是的。你知道，你已經回答了你自己的問題。中國現在已經很不錯了。在中國以外的地方，它相當柔軟。我想你明白髮生了什麼事。為這些庫存而建立的庫存仍然需要下降，然後成熟的節點、模擬、工業、汽車領域和投資在調整之前不會有意義。這就是正在發生的事情。你也算是回答了自己的問題。

Fair enough. Thanks.

很公平。謝謝。

Thanks Joe.

謝謝喬。

Krish Sankar.

克里什·桑卡爾。

Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my follow-up. Doug, I just had a quick follow-up. It's a question on inventory. We spoke about bringing inventory turns down. Well, I'm kind of curious like how to think about inventory next year, especially you're planning for a strong WFE year in 2025? Or do you think most of this inventory would be in a bin? How to think about inventory next year? Thank you.

是的，嗨。感謝您接受我的跟進。道格，我剛剛進行了快速跟進。這是一個關於庫存的問題。我們談到了降低庫存週轉率。嗯，我有點好奇明年如何考慮庫存，特別是您計劃在 2025 年實現強勁的 WFE 年度？或者您認為大部分庫存都會放在垃圾箱中嗎？明年庫存如何考慮？謝謝。

Yeah. Listen, if you think back to when business declined for us last year, a big part of what fell off pretty rapidly was our NAND business. And so a lot of the inventory that we still have sitting on the balance sheet will support NAND.

是的。聽著，如果你回想一下我們去年業務下滑的情況，你會發現我們的 NAND 業務迅速下滑的很大一部分。因此，我們資產負債表上仍有大量庫存將支持 NAND。

So when assuming NAND is stronger next year, and it will be, we would consume that NAND inventory that's been sitting on the balance sheet for a while. What will offset that to a certain extent is growth elsewhere, where we'll need to procure new inventory.

因此，當假設 NAND 明年會更強勁（而且確實會如此）時，我們將消耗資產負債表上已經存在一段時間的 NAND 庫存。在一定程度上抵消這一影響的是其他地方的成長，我們需要在那裡購買新的庫存。

So I'm not ready to give you an inventory forecast quite yet, but we're continuing to work as we go through the remainder of this year to kind of bring it down. And then what we do with next year will depend largely on the timing of business, the mix of business, the geographic distribution of business.

因此，我還沒有準備好向您提供庫存預測，但我們將在今年剩餘時間內繼續努力以降低庫存預測。然後我們明年的做法將在很大程度上取決於業務時機、業務組合、業務地理分佈。

But we'd like to get turned back to where they historically have been and they're not there yet. So that's how you should be thinking about it, Krish.

但我們希望回到他們歷史上曾經去過的地方，但他們還沒有到達那裡。所以這就是你應該如何思考的，克里什。

Thank you very much. Very helpful. Thanks Doug.

非常感謝。很有幫助。謝謝道格。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Melissa Weathers, Deutsche Bank.

梅麗莎‧韋瑟斯，德意志銀行。

Hi there. Thank you for taking my question. I wanted to ask on the leading etch and specifically gate-all-around nodes. I don't think I heard an update to your $1 billion gate-all-around revenues in 2024 target. So is that still the case? And as we think about those nodes ramping through next year like what's the trajectory of that ramp that we should be thinking about as you move from pilot lines into high volume manufacturing?

你好呀。感謝您回答我的問題。我想詢問領先的蝕刻，特別是環柵節點。我想我沒有聽到你們關於 2024 年 10 億美元總體收入目標的更新。那麼現在還是這樣嗎？當我們考慮明年的這些節點時，當您從試驗線轉向大批量製造時，我們應該考慮的斜坡軌跡是什麼？

Yeah. Thanks, Melissa. I mean, there is -- we always make choices about what we do and don't include in the prepared remarks and that gate-all-around fell out this time, just no intended message. In fact, if I look at what happened in the quarter, Lam, again, as we've talked on previous calls, is really positioned quite nicely with our forward-looking etch and depth portfolios.

是的。謝謝，梅麗莎。我的意思是，我們總是對我們所做的事情和不包括在準備好的評論中做出選擇，而這次全面失敗，只是沒有預期的資訊。事實上，如果我看看本季發生的情況，正如我們在之前的電話會議中所討論的那樣，林再次在我們的前瞻性蝕刻和深度投資組合中處於非常好的位置。

We really target those kind of markets with new tools in selective etch, which is a market we hadn't been in before and in fact, in the quarter, we had the additional selective etch wins for gate-all-around at multiple customers.

我們確實以選擇性蝕刻的新工具瞄準了這類市場，這是我們以前從未涉足過的市場，事實上，在本季度，我們在多個客戶的全柵極方面獲得了額外的選擇性蝕刻勝利。

We targeted investment in ALD films that are specifically needed for things like spacers and gate-all-around, and we had additional wins in the quarter for those films. You know, often with gate-all-around, we think of those technology -- obviously different technologies, but kind of occurring at the same node.

我們的目標是投資 ALD 薄膜，這些薄膜是間隔物和全柵等特別需要的，並且我們在這些薄膜上在本季度獲得了額外的勝利。你知道，我們通常會想到這些技術——顯然是不同的技術，但發生在同一個節點。

The backside power delivery, that's an area that is really right in our sweet spot in terms of deposition and etch. And in the quarter, we had wins in backside power in ALD oxide. And so I would say net-net, I mean, given those wins and what you're hearing from the end markets about the need for high power computing demand for AI, think the $1 billion forecast we gave you certainly as we move through next year would be going higher.

背面電力傳輸，這是一個在沉積和蝕刻方面真正處於我們最佳位置的區域。在本季度，我們在 ALD 氧化物的背面功率方面取得了勝利。所以我想說的是，我的意思是，考慮到這些勝利以及您從終端市場聽到的關於人工智慧對高功率運算需求的需求，想想我們在接下來的過程中肯定給您的10 億美元的預測年會更高。

And so again, that's a combination of rising demand. But also our product portfolio is both expanding and one in which we're winning share. And so there was no message about leading -- leaving it off. But thank you for asking the question so we could get that in right at the end. Thank you so much.

同樣，這是需求不斷增長的綜合作用。我們的產品組合也在不斷擴大，我們正在贏得市場份額。因此，沒有任何關於領導的資訊——把它擱置起來。但感謝您提出這個問題，以便我們能夠在最後解決這個問題。太感謝了。

Yeah. Thank you. All my questions there.

是的。謝謝。我所有的問題都在那裡。

Great. Okay, thank you.

偉大的。好的謝謝。

Awesome operator, I think that concludes our call. I want to thank everybody for joining us today. We'll look forward to seeing you at a variety of conferences and interactions as we go through the remainder of the quarter. Appreciate it.

很棒的接線生，我想我們的通話到此結束。我要感謝大家今天加入我們。在本季剩餘時間裡，我們期待在各種會議和互動中見到您。欣賞它。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。