富國銀行 (WFC) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome and thank you for joining the Wells Fargo first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.

歡迎並感謝您參加富國銀行 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。所有線路均已靜音，以防止任何背景噪音。

After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's call is being recorded.

演講結束後，將進行問答環節。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的通話將會被錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to John Campbell, Director of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin the conference.

現在我將把電話交給投資者關係總監約翰·坎貝爾。先生，您可以開始會議了。

Good morning. Thank you for joining our call today where our CEO, Charlie Scharf, and our CFO, Mike Santomassimo, will discuss first quarter results and answer your questions. This call is being recorded.

早安.感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議，我們的執行長 Charlie Scharf 和財務長 Mike Santomassimo 將討論第一季業績並回答您的問題。本次通話正在錄音。

Before we get started, I would like to remind you that our first quarter earnings materials, including the release, financial supplement and presentation deck are available on our website at wellsfargo.com. I'd also like to caution you that we may make forward-looking statements during today's call that are subject to risks and uncertainties.

在正式開始之前，我想提醒各位，我們第一季的收益資料，包括新聞稿、財務補充文件和簡報，都可以在我們的網站 wellsfargo.com 上找到。同時，我也想提醒各位，我們在今天的電話會議中可能會做出一些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在風險和不確定性。

Factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are detailed in our SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed today containing our earnings materials.

可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異的因素已在我們的美國證券交易委員會文件中詳細說明，包括今天提交的包含我們收益材料的 8-K 表格。

Information about any non-GAAP financial measures reference, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures, can also be found in our SEC filings and the earnings materials available on our website.

有關任何非公認會計準則財務指標參考的信息，包括這些指標與公認會計準則指標的調節表，也可以在我們的美國證券交易委員會文件和我們網站上提供的收益材料中找到。

I will now turn the call over to Charlie.

現在我將把通話轉給查理。

Thanks, John. I'll make some brief comments about our results, update you on our priorities, and provide some observations on what we're seeing in the current environment. I'll then turn the call over to Mike to review first quarter results in more detail before we take your questions.

謝謝你，約翰。我將簡要介紹我們的研究成果，向大家報告我們的工作重點，並就我們目前所看到的情況提供一些觀察。接下來，我會把電話交給麥克，讓他更詳細回顧第一季業績，然後再回答大家的問題。

Let me start with first quarter highlights. We had solid first quarter results with diluted earnings per share up 16% from a year ago, including some items noted in the earnings release.

讓我先回顧一下第一季的精彩時刻。我們第一季業績穩健，稀釋後每股收益比去年同期成長 16%，其中包括收益報告中提到的一些項目。

While revenue declined from a year ago, driven by lower net interest income as expected, we grew our fee-based revenue across many of our businesses, reflecting the benefit of the investments we've been making to diversify revenues and reduce our reliance on net interest income.

儘管由於淨利息收入如預期般下降，導致收入較上年同期有所下降，但我們在許多業務中的手續費收入均有所增長，這反映了我們為實現收入多元化和減少對淨利息收入的依賴而進行的投資所帶來的益處。

We continued to take a disciplined approach to expenses, with expenses declining from a year ago as we executed on our efficiency initiatives which have helped drive headcount reductions for 19 consecutive quarters.

我們繼續採取嚴格的支出控制措施，隨著我們執行提高效率的舉措，支出較去年同期有所下降，這些舉措已連續 19 個季度減少了員工人數。

We maintained our strong credit discipline and credit performance improved during the quarter with lower net charge-offs from both a year ago and the fourth quarter, driven by improved performance in our commercial portfolio while consumer losses were relatively stable.

我們維持了嚴格的信用紀律，本季信貸表現有所改善，淨沖銷額較去年同期和第四季均有所下降，這主要得益於商業貸款組合表現的改善，而消費者貸款損失則相對穩定。

We've been actively returning excess capital, and in the first quarter we returned $4.8 billion of capital to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases, and our diluted average common shares outstanding were down 8% from a year ago.

我們一直在積極返還超額資本，第一季我們透過股利和股票回購向股東返還了 48 億美元的資本，我們的稀釋後平均流通普通股數量比一年前減少了 8%。

Regarding our strategic priorities, I'm very proud of the significant progress we've made on our risk and control work. It remains our top priority, and closing consent orders is an important sign of progress. Five consent orders were terminated in the first quarter. Some of these were long standing, and others were resolved with timeframes that are much improved from other historical orders, which is an indication that our team is establishing the right processes and controls to meet our regulators and our own expectations.

關於我們的策略重點，我對我們在風險和控制工作方面取得的重大進展感到非常自豪。這仍然是我們的首要任務，而達成和解協議是取得進展的重要指標。第一季終止了五項同意令。其中一些問題由來已久，而另一些問題則在時間框架內得到解決，這比其他歷史訂單有了很大的改進，這表明我們的團隊正在建立正確的流程和控制措施，以滿足監管機構和我們自身的期望。

Since 2019, 11 orders have been terminated. We are a different company today than when this new management team arrived. These recent closures reflect that we have completed much of the common risk and control infrastructure work across the company that is required by other orders. I'm incredibly proud of the work done by our teams and remain confident that we will complete the work needed to close our other open consent orders. We also continue to show progress on our other strategic priorities, which are helping to improve Wells Fargo's returns.

自 2019 年以來，已有 11 筆訂單被終止。如今的我們公司與新管理團隊剛上任時已截然不同。最近這些關閉的案例表明，我們已經完成了公司內部大部分通用風險和控制基礎設施工作，這些工作是其他訂單所要求的。我為我們團隊的工作感到無比自豪，並且仍然相信我們將完成其他未決同意令所需的必要工作。我們在其他策略重點方面也持續取得進展，這有助於提高富國銀行的回報。

Our investments in our card business have continued to drive higher balances and spend from a year ago. While credit results have continued to be within our expectations, during the first quarter, Ed Olebe joined us as the Head of Cards and Merchant Services. I want to thank Ray Fischer for his leadership of our card business over the last five years. Ray was my first hire when I joined Wells, and I've worked with Ray for much of the 38 years we've known each other. So I'm not surprised at the great job he did in transforming our Card and Merchant business.

我們對信用卡業務的投資持續推動餘額和消費金額較去年同期成長。雖然信貸業績一直符合我們的預期，但在第一季度，Ed Olebe 加入了我們，擔任信用卡和商家服務主管。我要感謝雷·費雪在過去五年裡對我們信用卡業務的領導。雷是我加入威爾斯公司後僱用的第一位員工，在我們相識的38年裡，我和雷一起工作了很長時間。因此，我對他成功改造我們的信用卡和商家業務並不感到驚訝。

He brought great talent into the business, transformed our product offerings, and greatly improved the customer experience while making the Card business an important strategic part of Wells Fargo. I'm equally excited to welcome Ed to the company. He brings more than 25 years of financial services and credit card experience, and his expertise will be invaluable as we continue to grow our Credit Card business and expand our payment capabilities across merchant services.

他為公司帶來了傑出的人才，改變了我們的產品供應，大大改善了客戶體驗，同時使信用卡業務成為富國銀行的重要策略組成部分。我同樣非常高興地歡迎 Ed 加入公司。他擁有超過 25 年的金融服務和信用卡經驗，隨著我們繼續發展信用卡業務並擴大我們在商家服務中的支付能力，他的專業知識將非常寶貴。

Turning to our Auto business, we started to launch our partnership with Volkswagen and Audi Brands as their preferred purchase financing provider in the United States. Following the termination of the sales practices consent order over a year ago, we've been taking measured actions in Consumer, Small and Business Banking that started to generate modest growth across a number of metrics, including net checking account growth, or credit cards originated in our branches, and improved customer experience scores.

再來看看我們的汽車業務，我們開始與大眾和奧迪品牌建立合作關係，成為它們在美國的首選購車融資提供者。自從一年多前終止銷售行為同意令以來，我們在消費者、小型企業和商業銀行業務方面採取了有條不紊的措施，這些措施開始在多項指標上產生適度增長，包括淨支票帳戶增長、我們分支機構發放的信用卡數量以及客戶體驗評分的提高。

We've also continued to invest in refurbishing our branches while at the same time making enhancements to account opening experience in both our digital and branch channels. In the first quarter, active mobile customers grew 4% from a year ago, and digital account openings continued to grow.

我們持續投資翻新分支機構，同時改善數位管道和分支機構的開戶體驗。第一季度，活躍行動用戶比去年同期成長了 4%，數位帳戶開戶量也持續成長。

We continue to increase collaboration between our bankers and advisors that is helping drive an increase in net asset flows into the wealth and investment management premier channel. We've also seen more of our clients investing in alternative products, which is one of our goals.

我們不斷加強銀行家和顧問之間的合作，這有助於推動流入財富和投資管理高端管道的淨資產增加。我們也看到越來越多的客戶投資於替代產品，這也是我們的目標之一。

Turning to our Commercial Business, we continue to generate strong growth in investment banking fees driven by strength in debt capital markets. I want to thank Jon Weiss, who announced his retirement earlier this year and started leading Corporate Investment Banking in 2020. Jon has built a great management team, and together they have taken a good Corporate Investment Bank and have made it an important driver of growth and strong returns for the company.

再來看我們的商業業務，在債務資本市場的強勁推動下，我們的投資銀行費用持續保持強勁成長。我要感謝 Jon Weiss，他於今年稍早宣布退休，並於 2020 年開始領導企業投資銀行業務。Jon 組建了一支優秀的管理團隊，他們共同將優秀的投資銀行發展成為公司成長和強勁回報的重要驅動力。

We are a better and stronger company because of Jon's leadership, and he's leaving Corporate Investment Banking well positioned for future growth. Fernando Rivas, who joined Wells Fargo last year with nearly 30 years of industry experience, is now the sole CEO of Corporate Investment Banking.

由於 Jon 的領導，我們公司變得更好、更強大，當他離開時，企業投資銀行部門已為未來的成長做好了充分準備。費爾南多·里瓦斯去年加入富國銀行，擁有近 30 年的行業經驗，現在是企業投資銀行的唯一執行長。

We are also focused on expanding our Commercial Banking business and the investments we've made in relationship managers and business development officers has helped to attract new clients, and we've seen some early success in offering our Investment Banking capabilities to our Commercial Banking clients.

我們也專注於拓展商業銀行業務，我們在客戶經理和業務拓展人員方面的投入幫助我們吸引了新客戶，並且在向商業銀行客戶提供投資銀行服務方面也取得了一些初步成功。

Now let me turn towards what we're seeing from our customers. Through the first quarter, our internal indicators continued to point towards the strength of our customers' financial position. Consumers have remained resilient and debit and credit card spending patterns have remained stable. More affluent customers continue to show strength while less affluent customers show more stress.

現在讓我來談談我們從客戶那裡了解到的情況。第一季度，我們的內部指標持續顯示客戶的財務狀況強勁。消費者表現出了韌性，借記卡和信用卡消費模式保持穩定。較富裕的顧客持續表現出強勁的購買力，而較不富裕的顧客則表現出更大的壓力。

Consumer credit also continues to perform well. Delinquencies appear to have leveled at historical norms, and payment rates on unsecured portfolios have been quite strong. Deposit flows for both consumer and commercial clients have been consistent and in line with seasonal trends.

消費信貸也持續表現良好。違約率似乎已穩定在歷史正常水平，無擔保投資組合的支付率也相當強勁。無論是個人客戶或商業客戶，存款流量都保持穩定，並與季節性趨勢相符。

And while overall loan growth was modest, we've seen pockets of increased loan demand from our commercial clients, resulting in modest growth in both average and period and commercial loan balances from the fourth quarter. All of this points to the strength of our customer base through the end of the first quarter.

雖然整體貸款成長幅度不大，但我們看到商業客戶的貸款需求在某些方面有所增加，導致第四季度平均貸款餘額、定期貸款餘額和商業貸款餘額均出現小幅增長。所有這些都表明，截至第一季末，我們的客戶基礎仍然穩固。

Some broader comments now on what we see currently. I'm encouraged by the willingness of the administration to take on some very difficult issues. It's been over 15 years since the financial crisis, and we greatly support the willingness to look at the cumulative impact of the regulatory changes that have been made during this period and evaluate where changes are needed to better support a growing US economy.

現在就我們目前所看到的情況做一些更廣泛的評論。我對本屆政府願意著手解決一些非常棘手的問題感到鼓舞。金融危機至今已超過 15 年，我們非常支持各方願意審視在此期間進行的監管改革的累積影響，並評估哪些方面需要改革才能更好地支持美國經濟的成長。

This is not just a bank issue. We also hear from our corporate clients that they experience significant regulatory barriers to growth and support the effort to look at regulations and make meaningful changes. We believe the changes that are being discussed would allow us to better support our customers. That means make more loans, take more deposits, and provide more liquidity to the markets while still preserving robust regulatory oversight.

這不僅是銀行的問題。我們也從企業客戶那裡了解到，他們在發展過程中遇到了重大的監管障礙，他們支持審視監管規定並做出有意義的改變。我們相信，目前正在討論的這些變更將使我們能夠更好地為客戶提供支援。這意味著要發放更多貸款，吸收更多存款，為市場提供更多流動性，同時也要維持強而有力的監管。

Regarding trade, we also support the administration's willingness to look at barriers to fair trade for the United States. Though there are certainly risks associated with such significant actions, and we see concern playing out in the markets and the economic uncertainty that now exists, timely resolution which benefits the US would be good for businesses, consumers, and the markets, and therefore good for Wells Fargo, since we're predominantly a US bank. Wells Fargo prospers when the US prospers.

在貿易方面，我們也支持政府願意檢視美國公平貿易所面臨的障礙。儘管採取如此重大的行動肯定會帶來風險，而且我們看到市場和當前存在的經濟不確定性也反映了這種擔憂，但及時解決問題，使美國受益，對企業、消費者和市場都有好處，因此對富國銀行也有好處，因為我們主要是美國銀行。美國繁榮，富國銀行也繁榮。

But we have heard a great deal from our clients as they work through this transitionary environment, we have not seen an impact on their condition yet. This is a complicated issue and is our current expectation that we will face continued volatility and uncertainty and are prepared for a slower economic environment in 2025, but the actual outcome will be dependent on the results and timing of policy changes.

但是，我們從客戶那裡了解到，在經歷這種過渡環境的過程中，我們還沒有看到對他們的狀況有任何影響。這是一個複雜的問題，我們目前的預期是，我們將面臨持續的波動和不確定性，並已做好迎接2025年經濟環境放緩的準備，但實際結果將取決於政策變化的結果和時機。

We and our customers come into the current environment from a position of strength, and that should serve us well. We've managed credit well over many cycles, and over the past couple of years we have taken several credit tightening actions that have reduced our origination volume and improved our credit performance, which should position us well if there is an economic downturn.

我們和我們的客戶都處於有利地位，這對我們大有裨益。在過去的許多經濟週期中，我們一直很好地管理信貸，並且在過去的幾年裡，我們採取了一些信貸緊縮措施，減少了貸款發放量，提高了信貸表現，這應該能讓我們在經濟衰退時處於有利地位。

We have a strong balance sheet, including our capital and liquidity levels which allow us to support our customers and clients in a variety of economic scenarios. We will continue to react to both known and anticipated policy changes and their potential effects on the economy, and we will continue to carefully monitor these trends and respond accordingly.

我們擁有穩健的資產負債表，包括充足的資本和流動性，這使我們能夠在各種經濟環境下為我們的客戶提供支援。我們將繼續對已知和預期中的政策變化及其對經濟的潛在影響做出反應，並將繼續密切關注這些趨勢並做出相應的回應。

Our focus is unwavering. We want to be an important partner for our clients, communities, and governments in driving sustainable economic growth in the US. We are transforming Wells Fargo by investing to build a well-controlled, faster growing, and higher returning company while we work to better serve our customers to become more efficient. I'm proud of all that we've accomplished and even more excited about our future as we build one of the most respected financial institutions in the country. I will now turn the call over to Mike.

我們的目標始終如一。我們希望成為客戶、社區和政府的重要合作夥伴，共同推動美國可持續的經濟成長。我們正在透過投資改造富國銀行，使其成為一家管控良好、成長更快、回報更高的公司，同時努力更好地服務客戶，提高效率。我為我們所取得的成就感到自豪，對我們的未來更加充滿期待，因為我們正在努力將自己打造成為全國最受尊敬的金融機構之一。現在我將把通話轉給麥克。

Thank you, Charlie, and good morning, everyone. Our first quarter results were solid with net income of $4.9 billion or $1.39 per diluted common share, both up from a year ago. These results reflect the consistent execution on our strategic priorities. We continue to see growth in fee-based revenue across many of our core businesses, had a focus on reducing expenses and maintain strong credit discipline and continue to return excess capital to shareholders.

謝謝你，查理，大家早安。我們第一季的業績表現穩健，淨收入為 49 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.39 美元，均高於去年同期水準。這些成果反映了我們在策略重點上始終如一的執行力。我們許多核心業務的收費收入持續成長，我們專注於降低支出，保持嚴格的信貸紀律，並繼續將多餘的資本回饋給股東。

Our first quarter results included $313 million or $0.09 per share of discrete tax benefits related to resolution of prior period matters and a $263 million or $0.06 per share gain on the previously announced sale of the non-agency third-party servicing segment of our Commercial Mortgage Servicing business.

我們第一季的業績包括與解決前期事項相關的 3.13 億美元（每股 0.09 美元）的單項稅收優惠，以及先前宣佈出售我們商業抵押貸款服務業務的非機構第三方服務部門所獲得的 2.63 億美元（每股 0.06 美元）收益。

These benefits were partially offset by $149 million or $0.03 per share of losses related to $2.6 billion of debt securities as we continue to repositioning the investment portfolio.

由於我們繼續調整投資組合，與 26 億美元債務證券相關的損失 1.49 億美元（即每股 0.03 美元）部分抵消了這些收益。

Turning the slide 4. Net interest income is down $341 million or 3% from the fourth quarter, driven by two fewer days in the quarter, as well as the impact of lower rates and floating rate assets. I will update you on the full year net interest income expectations later on the call.

轉動幻燈片 4。淨利息收入較第四季下降 3.41 億美元，降幅為 3%，主要原因是本季營業天數減少兩天，以及利率下降和浮動利率資產的影響。我稍後會在電話會議上向您報告全年淨利息收入預期。

Moving to slide 5. Both average and period-end loans grew slightly from the fourth quarter, driven by growth in commercial and industrial loans.

切換到第5張投影片。受商業和工業貸款成長的推動，平均貸款額和期末貸款額均較第四季略有成長。

While still quite modest, it's the first time we've seen growth in average loans since first quarter of 2023. Average deposits increased from a year ago across our Commercial and Consumer businesses, enabling us to reduce higher cost corporate strategy deposits by $69 billion or 58%.

雖然增幅仍然相當有限，但這是自 2023 年第一季以來我們首次看到平均貸款金額出現成長。與去年同期相比，我們商業和消費業務的平均存款有所增加，使我們能夠減少成本較高的企業策略存款 690 億美元，即 58%。

Average deposits declined 1% from the fourth quarter as higher consumer balances were more than offset by a reduction in higher cost corporate treasury deposits as well as seasonal declines in our commercial businesses. Average deposit costs declined 15 basis points from the fourth quarter with declines across all of our businesses.

由於消費者存款餘額增加被成本較高的企業資金存款減少以及商業業務的季節性下滑所抵消，平均存款較第四季度下降了 1%。平均存款成本較第四季下降了 15 個基點，我們所有業務的存款成本均有所下降。

Turning the slide 6. Non-interest income was stable compared to a year ago. The impairments in the venture capital portfolio and losses from the investment portfolio repositioning were offset by growth across many of our businesses where we have been investing, resulting in higher investment advisory and investment banking fees. We also benefited from the gain on the sale of a part of our Commercial Mortgage Servicing business.

轉動幻燈片 6。與去年同期相比，非利息收入保持穩定。創投組合的減損和投資組合重新定位造成的損失被我們投資的許多業務的成長所抵消，從而帶來了更高的投資諮詢和投資銀行費用。我們也從出售部分商業抵押貸款服務業務中獲益。

Turning to expenses on slide 7. Non-interest expense declined 3% from a year ago, driven by lower operating losses and the lower FDIC special assessment, as well as the impact of our efficiency initiatives.

接下來請看第 7 頁的費用部分。非利息支出較上年同期下降 3%，主要原因是經營虧損減少、聯邦存款保險公司特別評估費降低以及我們提高效率的措施的影響。

Non-interest expense was relatively stable compared to the fourth quarter, which included $647 million of severance expense, while the first quarter included approximately $700 million of seasonally higher expenses, including payroll taxes, restricted stock expense for retirement eligible employees, and 401k matching contributions.

與第四季度相比，非利息支出相對穩定，第四季度包括 6.47 億美元的遣散費支出；而第一季度包括約 7 億美元的季節性較高支出，包括工資稅、符合退休條件的員工的限制性股票支出以及 401k 匹配繳款。

Turning to credit quality on slide 8. Credit performance improved with our net loan charge off ratio down 5 basis points from a year ago and 8 basis points from the fourth quarter to 45 basis points of average loans.

接下來，我們來看第 8 張投影片，內容是關於信用品質。信貸表現有所改善，淨貸款核銷率較上年同期下降 5 個基點，較第四季下降 8 個基點，平均貸款核銷率為 45 個基點。

Commercial net loan charge offs decreased $192 million from the fourth quarter to 16 basis points of average loans, driven by lower losses in the commercial real estate office portfolio.

由於商業房地產辦公大樓投資組合的損失減少，商業淨貸款核銷額較第四季度減少了 1.92 億美元，達到平均貸款額的 16 個基點。

Consumer net loan charge offs declined $10 million from the fourth quarter and were 86 basis points of average loans, as declines in Auto and other Consumer loans were partially offset by higher losses in the credit card portfolio reflecting seasonality which was consistent with our expectations.

消費者淨貸款核銷額較第四季度減少了 1000 萬美元，相當於平均貸款額的 86 個基點，汽車貸款和其他消費貸款的下降部分被信用卡組合中反映季節性因素的較高損失所抵消，這與我們的預期一致。

Non-performing assets increased 4% in the fourth quarter, driven by an increase in commercial and industrial non-accrual loans.

第四季不良資產成長 4%，主要原因是商業和工業非應計貸款增加。

Moving to slide 9. Our allowance for credit losses for loans was down $84 million from the fourth quarter, reflecting a lower allowance for commercial real estate loans on lower loan balances. Although we haven't seen evidence of weakness in our Consumer or Commercial portfolios, when setting the allowance in the first quarter we made a modest adjustment to reflect the potential economic weakness that could develop.

切換到第9張投影片。我們的貸款信貸損失準備金比第四季度減少了 8,400 萬美元，這反映出商業房地產貸款餘額減少，導致貸款損失準備金也相應減少。儘管我們尚未發現消費者或商業投資組合出現疲軟跡象，但在第一季設定撥備時，我們還是做出了適度調整，以反映可能出現的潛在經濟疲軟。

Our allowance coverage for our Corporate and Investment Banking commercial real estate office portfolio declined to 11.2%, which was in line with the coverage ratio we had in this portfolio for most of the last year.

我們企業及投資銀行商業不動產辦公大樓投資組合的撥備覆蓋率下降至 11.2%，與去年大部分時間該投資組合的覆蓋率基本一致。

Turning to capital and liquidity on slide 10. Our capital position remains strong with our CEC1 ratio stable at 11.1%, well above our CET 1 regulatory minimum plus buffers of 9.8%. We repurchased 3.5 billion of common stock in the first quarter and have the capacity to continue to repurchase shares.

第 10 頁將討論資本和流動性問題。我們的資本狀況依然強勁，CEC1 比率穩定在 11.1%，遠高於我們的 CET1 監管最低要求加上 9.8% 的緩衝。我們在第一季回購了 35 億股普通股，有能力繼續回購股票。

Moving to our operating segments starting with Consumer Banking and Lending on slide 11. Consumer, Small and Business banking revenue declined 2% from a year ago, driven by higher deposit costs, reflecting the impact of customer migration to higher yielding deposit products.

接下來，我們將介紹我們的營運部門，首先是第 11 頁的消費者銀行和貸款業務。受存款成本上升的影響，消費者、小型企業和商業銀行業務收入較去年同期下降 2%，反映出客戶轉向收益更高的存款產品所帶來的影響。

Of note, deposit balances grew from a year ago, marking the first year over year gain since fourth quarter of 2022 as the average balance for checking account stabilized and the pace of migration to higher yielding products continued to slow. Debit card spending remains strong, up 4% from a year ago, consistent with the fourth quarter growth rate.

值得注意的是，存款餘額較上年同期有所增長，這是自 2022 年第四季度以來首次同比增長，原因是支票帳戶的平均餘額趨於穩定，而向收益更高的產品遷移的速度繼續放緩。簽帳卡消費依然強勁，比去年同期成長 4%，與第四季的成長率一致。

Home lending revenue was stable from a year ago. Mortgage loan originations increased 26% with increases in both purchase and refinance volume. We continue to streamline the business with headcount down 47% and the amount of third-party mortgage loan service for others down 31% since the end of 2022. Credit card revenue grew 2% from a year ago as loan balances increased.

房屋貸款收入與去年同期相比保持穩定。抵押貸款發放量增加了 26%，其中購屋貸款和再融資貸款量均有所增加。自 2022 年底以來，我們持續精簡業務，員工人數減少了 47%，為他人提供的第三方抵押貸款服務量減少了 31%。由於貸款餘額增加，信用卡收入比去年同期增加了 2%。

Auto revenue decreased 21% from a year ago, driven by lower loan balances and loan spread compression. The spread compression reflects our previous credit tightening actions which have resulted in an increased concentration of higher FICO borrowers in our portfolio, as well as improved credit performance. The decline in Personal Lending revenue from a year ago was driven by lower loan balances.

受貸款餘額減少和貸款利差收窄的影響，汽車產業收入較去年同期下降了 21%。利差收窄反映了我們先前採取的信貸緊縮措施，這些措施導致我們投資組合中 FICO 信用評分較高的借款人比例增加，信貸表現也得到改善。個人貸款收入較上年同期下降的原因是貸款餘額減少。

Commercial bank -- turning to commercial banking results on slide 12. Revenue was down 7% from a year ago as growth in non-interest income driven by higher treasury management fees, increased revenue from tax credit investments and higher investment banking fees, was more than offset by lower net interest income due to the impact of lower rates. Average loan balances in the first quarter were stable from a year ago and up 1% for the fourth quarter.

商業銀行－請看第 12 頁的商業銀行表現。由於國庫管理費、稅收抵免投資收入和投資銀行費的增加帶動非利息收入增長，但受利率下降的影響，淨利息收入減少，導致收入年減 7%。第一季平均貸款餘額與去年同期持平，比第四季增加了 1%。

Turning to Corporate & Investment Banking on slide 13. Banking revenue was down 4% from a year ago, driven by the impact of lower interest rates. This decline was partially offset by lower deposit pricing and higher investment banking revenue from increased activity in debt capital markets.

請參閱第 13 頁，了解企業及投資銀行業務。受利率下降的影響，銀行業收入比去年同期下降了 4%。存款價格下降和債務資本市場活動增加帶來的投資銀行收入成長部分抵消了這一下滑。

Commercial real estate revenue grew 18% from a year ago, driven by the gain on the sale of a part of our commercial mortgage servicing business. Increased capital markets activity and higher revenue in our low-income housing business also benefited revenue in the first quarter.

商業房地產收入較上年同期成長 18%，主要得益於出售部分商業抵押貸款服務業務所獲得的收益。第一季度，資本市場活動的增加和低收入住房業務收入的提高也促進了收入成長。

Markets revenue was stable from a year ago as higher revenue from activity across most commodity products as well as foreign exchange was offset by lower results in structured products and credit trading.

市場收入與去年同期持平，大多數商品產品和外匯交易活動的收入增加被結構性產品和信貸交易的業績下降所抵消。

The 22% from the fourth quarter reflected seasonality in higher trading activity across most asset classes. Average loans declined 2% from a year ago, but increased 1% from the fourth quarter as growth in markets and banking more than offset continued declines in commercial real estate as transaction activity remained muted, capital markets remained liquid, and our office portfolio continued to decline.

第四季的 22% 反映了大多數資產類別交易活動的季節性增加。平均貸款額較上年同期下降 2%，但較第四季度增長 1%，原因是市場和銀行業的增長超過了商業地產的持續下滑，交易活動依然低迷，資本市場流動性依然充足，而我們的辦公大樓投資組合繼續下降。

On slide 14, wealth and investment management revenue increased 4% compared with a year ago, as higher asset base fees driven by increased market valuations were partially offset by lower net interest income due to higher deposit costs.

第 14 頁顯示，財富和投資管理收入比去年同期增加了 4%，原因是市場估值上升帶來的資產基礎費用增加，部分被存款成本上升導致的淨利息收入下降所抵銷。

As a reminder, the majority of advisory assets are priced at the beginning of the quarter, so second quarter results will look like market valuations as of April 1, which were down from January 1 but up from a year ago.

需要提醒的是，大多數諮詢資產的定價都在季度初，因此第二季的業績將反映 4 月 1 日的市場估值，雖然低於 1 月 1 日的估值，但高於一年前的估值。

Despite the market volatility during the first quarter, the mix of our clients' assets allocation was relatively stable. Average deposit balances continue to increase and the migration of deposits to cash alternatives continued to slow.

儘管第一季市場波動較大，但我們客戶的資產配置組合相對穩定。平均存款餘額持續成長，存款轉移到現金替代品的速度持續放緩。

Slide 15 highlights our corporate results. Revenue declined compared to a year ago, driven by lower results from our venture capital investments and higher net losses on debt securities related to the repositioning of the investment portfolio.

第 15 張投影片重點介紹了我們的公司業績。與去年同期相比，收入有所下降，主要原因是風險投資收益減少以及與投資組合重新調整相關的債務證券淨虧損增加。

Turning to our 2025 outlook on slide 16. We've not changed our net interest income outlook, and we still expect 2025 net interest income will be approximately 1% to 3% higher than in 2024. However, given what has occurred over the past three months, we currently expect our full year 2025 net interest income to be in the low end of the range.

接下來請看第 16 頁投影片，了解我們對 2025 年的展望。我們並未改變對淨利息收入的預期，仍預期 2025 年淨利息收入將比 2024 年成長約 1% 至 3%。然而，鑑於過去三個月發生的情況，我們目前預計 2025 年全年淨利息收入將處於預期範圍的低端。

It is still early in the year and clearly, we are entering a period with more volatility, so we will need to see how the key variables driving net interest income such as rates, deposit flows, and mix as well as loan growth play out, and we will continue to update you over the remainder of the year.

現在還只是年初，顯然我們正進入一個波動性較大的時期，因此我們需要觀察影響淨利息收入的關鍵變量（如利率、存款流動和結構以及貸款增長）將如何發展，我們將在今年餘下的時間裡繼續向您匯報最新情況。

I would also point out that the amount of trading related net interest income will be impacted by rate and asset levels which would be largely offset by trading related non-interest income.

我還想指出，與交易相關的淨利息收入金額將受到利率和資產水準的影響，而與交易相關的非利息收入將在很大程度上抵消這種影響。

Regarding our expense outlook, we still expect 2025 non-interest expense to be approximately $54.2 billion.

關於我們的支出展望，我們仍然預期 2025 年的非利息支出約為 542 億美元。

In summary, our results in the first quarter reflected the progress we have been making to improve our financial performance. Compared with a year ago, we had double digit growth in diluted earnings per share, grew fee-based revenue across many of our businesses, reduced our expenses, and improved our credit performance.

總而言之，我們第一季的業績反映了我們在改善財務表現方面的進展。與一年前相比，我們的稀釋後每股收益實現了兩位數的成長，我們許多業務的收費收入都有所增長，我們的支出有所減少，我們的信貸表現也有所改善。

Lastly, the strength of our balance sheet, including our capital and liquidity positions, our risk discipline, and our diversified business model allows us to be a source of strength for our customers throughout economic cycles. We will now take your questions.

最後，我們強大的資產負債表，包括我們的資本和流動性狀況、風險紀律以及多元化的業務模式，使我們能夠在整個經濟週期中成為客戶的強大後盾。現在開始回答各位的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Scott Siefers, Piper Sandler.

（操作說明）Scott Siefers，Piper Sandler。

Charlie, maybe I was hoping you could start by perhaps expanding on your thoughts regarding current customer sentiment. Is your sense that customers are still eager to do things once we get past all this turmoil? In other words, we just sort of need a finite termination to some of this uncertainty. Or are they now beginning to like gear themselves for a more prolonged slowdown that would sort of dial back some of their plans?

查理，或許我希望你能先詳細談談你對當前客戶情緒的看法。您是否覺得，一旦我們度過這場動盪，顧客們仍然渴望開展業務？換句話說，我們需要一個明確的終點來消除這種不確定性。或者他們現在開始為更長的經濟放緩做好準備，從而調整他們的一些計劃？

Yeah. Listen, I would say I think they're trying to figure it out. I mean, I think everything that we see in the behavior, both in terms of both our consumers as well as our corporate customers has been just continued strength, which is a great position to start from. But everyone is trying to assess the situation in terms of will there be a resolution to some of these things, what does it mean for their business, and that's not completely clear.

是的。聽著，我覺得他們正在努力弄清楚這件事。我的意思是，我認為我們在消費者和企業客戶的行為方面所看到的一切都在持續走強，這是一個很好的起點。但每個人都在試圖評估情況，看看這些問題能否得到解決，這對他們的業務意味著什麼，而這一點並不完全清楚。

So business hasn't come to a halt in any way at this point, but people are certainly taking stock of what it means figuring out where to sit and wait and where to continue to move forward. And I think there is still a hope that the positives of regulation, positives of tax reform, the long-term positives of changes in trade can put us in a position to feel better about the future and a growing economy. But people are cautious. So I just kind of put it in the wait-and-see category. Cautious in the shorter term, but probably still bullish for the longer term.

所以目前商業活動還沒有完全停滯，但人們肯定在認真思考，究竟該在哪裡坐等觀望，又該在哪裡繼續前進。我認為，監管的正面影響、稅收改革的正面影響、貿易變化的長期正面影響，仍然能夠讓我們對未來和經濟成長感到更加樂觀。但人們都很謹慎。所以我把它歸類在觀望類了。短期內謹慎，但長期來看可能仍看好。

Okay. Perfect. Thank you very much. And then Mike, I was hoping you could unpack a little more on the NII commentary. A few copy outs in there and appreciate your thinking more towards the lower end of the range given what we see currently.

好的。完美的。非常感謝。然後，麥克，我希望你能再詳細解釋 NII 的評論。裡面有一些抄襲的內容，考慮到我們目前所看到的，我很欣賞你更傾向於較低價位的考慮。

But maybe as you look at sort of some of the puts and takes regarding rates, the forward anticipated loan growth or lack thereof, if you could just maybe point to where you feel like you're most confident by contrast, what might need to be right to get a little stronger performance as the year plays out?

但是，當您審視有關利率、預期貸款成長（或缺乏成長）的一些預測和結果時，如果您能指出您相比之下最有信心的地方，那麼為了在今年取得更強勁的業績，哪些因素可能需要正確應對呢？

Yeah. No, I appreciate it. And there are a lot of puts and takes. And certainly, a lot of uncertainty just more broadly around like where the path is. If you start and think about where rates are relative to the expectations we set in January, really, the difference is -- on the short end of Fed funds, really the difference is in the second half of the year.

是的。不，我很感激。而且有很多投入和收穫。當然，更廣泛地說，未來的道路走向也存在著許多不確定性。如果你從利率相對於我們在 1 月設定的預期開始思考，實際上，區別在於——就聯邦基金短期利率而言，真正的區別在於下半年。

The first half of the year is pretty close, and that's moving around a lot, right? And you can just look at the implied forwards for year-end on Fed funds and it's -- you got a 30-basis point plus or minus move like over the last six, seven days. And so that -- I think that's going to continue to evolve a bit as we kind of look forward.

今年上半年的時間很接近，但這個時間點經常變動，對吧？你只要看看年底聯邦基金隱含遠期合約，就會發現──在過去六、七天裡，它的波動幅度達到了正負 30 個基點。所以，我認為隨著我們展望未來，這種情況還會繼續發展演變。

On the long end, right now, rates are a little bit lower than what we projected, but it's not a huge driver of what's going to be success for NII. And we're up 50 basis points in the last seven days. And so that can move pretty -- or a little over that actually as of now. And so that can move pretty quickly. So we'll see. And it's hard to predict exactly where rates are going to go, just given sort of the volatility that we've seen.

從長遠來看，目前的利率略低於我們的預期，但這並不是 NII 能否成功的關鍵因素。過去七天我們上漲了 50 個基點。所以，它可能會大幅波動——或者實際上，就目前而言，波動幅度可能會更大一些。所以這個過程可能會很快。我們拭目以待。鑑於我們目前看到的波動性，很難準確預測利率的走向。

On the loan side, like we said in January, we didn't expect to see a lot in the first half. We expected to see more in the second half and call it sort of mid-single-digit kind of growth rates kind of 3%-ish worth sort of growth rates, that kind of plays when you look at the fourth quarter versus fourth quarter. And that's still like an open question. Charlie sort of highlighted a little bit of the uncertainty that's there. We did see a little bit of growth in the first quarter. So that's a positive.

就像我們在一月說的那樣，在租借方面，我們預計上半年不會有很多租借資金。我們預計下半年會有更多成長，成長率大概在個位數的中等水平，大約 3% 左右，當你比較第四季和第四季的數據時，你會發現這種成長趨勢。這仍然是一個懸而未決的問題。查理的話多少也指出了其中存在的一些不確定性。第一季我們確實看到了一些成長。這是個好消息。

As I mentioned in my remarks, we haven't seen that in a while. So that's good. And so we'll see how that progresses. And hopefully, we get a little bit more clarity and things calm down a bit, and we start to see some of that growth that we expect to happen, but that's certainly going to be a place that could move around a little bit.

正如我剛才所說，我們已經很久沒有看到這種情況了。那很好。所以，我們將拭​​目以待事態發展。希望情況能更明朗一些，局勢也能平靜下來，我們就能開始看到預期中的成長，但這肯定是一個可能會有些波動的領域。

And then when you look at deposits, we come into the first quarter, you see noninterest-bearing down a little, interest-bearing up a little bit. So you got a little bit of -- on a negative side, you got a little bit of mix changes there.

然後，當你查看存款時，進入第一季度，你會發現不計息存款略有下降，計息存款略有上升。所以，從負面角度來說，你會看到一些——混音方面有一些變化。

On the positive side, though, as we look at the consumer business, we saw a little bit of growth plus we're doing -- we're getting better results when we look at the retention of some of the savings promotions that we had on or the CDs that are rolling over. So we're retaining more of those deposits than we'd model. So there's some puts and takes there as well. And so as you look -- and then you have like trading NII, that's going to move around a little bit.

不過，從正面的方面來看，當我們審視消費者業務時，我們看到了一些成長，而且——當我們審視一些儲蓄促銷活動的留存率或正在續期的定期存款時，我們獲得了更好的結果。因此，我們保留的存款比我們預期的要多。所以這裡面也有一些買賣雙方。所以當你觀察時——然後你會發現，例如交易淨利息收入，它就會有一些波動。

You see a little bit of that in the first quarter where we had higher trading assets driving a little bit lower NII, but that's offsetting fees. And so you see there's lots of puts and takes. And so at this point, we still feel like that low end of the range is kind of what it looks like now, but it could move around a little bit as we go into the middle of the year, both in a positive or negative way.

第一季的情況略有不同，交易資產增加導致淨利息收入略有下降，但這被費用抵消了。所以你看，這裡面有很多投入和收穫。因此，目前我們仍然覺得這個區間的下限大致就是現在的樣子，但隨著我們進入年中，它可能會略有波動，無論是向上還是向下。

Yeah, and I just want to emphasize just what Mike just said, which is we're trying to be as transparent as we can be about what the outcomes can be in terms of NII. But they are huge unknown. So the huge unknowns can go both ways in this, right? You can make arguments if I look at the forward curve in terms of how many rate cuts they'll be, you can also make an argument that suggests there just won't be nearly the amount of rate cuts that are embedded in the forwards.

是的，我只想強調麥克剛才說的，那就是我們正在努力做到盡可能透明，讓大家了解 NII 方面可能出現的結果。但它們仍然是巨大的未知數。所以，這件事上存在著巨大的未知因素，結果可能截然相反，對吧？如果你從遠期曲線的角度來分析降息次數，你可以提出論點；但你也可以提出論點，認為實際的降息次數遠不會像遠期曲線所預測的那麼多。

And you see what's happened to the curve over the last couple of days little over the past couple of hours. The same holds true relative to what happens in terms of just loan balances. There are scenarios where for a host of reasons, both could be positive or negative in terms of customers wanting to borrow. And so it's just -- it is a volatile time. It is a time of unknowns.

你可以看到過去幾天，特別是過去幾個小時裡，曲線發生了怎樣的變化。就貸款餘額而言，情況也是如此。在某些情況下，由於各種原因，兩者對於想要藉貸的客戶來說都可能是積極的，也可能是消極的。所以，現在是一個動盪的時期。這是一個充滿未知的時代。

Again, we're trying to be as clear as we can about what we think today. As we think about what the future is, there's -- we're not locked in on one scenario that's locked in on the low end of NII. It's how could this play out? It could play out multiple ways and as we sit here next quarter, we'll hopefully have -- be able to share more because that time won't just have past, but hopefully, the issues that are driving the rate curve out there, we'll have a little bit more clarity on.

再次重申，我們今天想盡可能清晰地表達我們的想法。當我們思考未來時，我們並沒有局限於 NII 處於低端的某個特定情景。事情會如何發展呢？事情可能會有多種發展方向，希望到下個季度我們能夠分享更多信息，因為時間不僅會過去，而且我們希望能夠更清楚地了解目前影響利率曲線的問題。

Ken Usdin, Autonomous Research.

Ken Usdin，自主研究。

Charlie, in your interest statements you mentioned the continued progress on knocking down more of the consent orders. And I just want to ask a bigger question about the regulatory backdrop? And there's anything in the moving parts that we're all watching happen in terms of appointments and new heads and such impact how you move forward on trying to get the rest of them done? And just if you have to make an adjustment like what are those adjustments that you have to just be thinking about? Thanks.

查理，你在利益聲明中提到，在推翻更多同意令方面持續取得進展。我只想問一個關於監管背景的更廣泛的問題？在我們關注的這些變動中，例如人事任命、新領導層等等，是否會對我們推進其他工作的完成產生任何影響？如果你必須做出調整，那麼你需要考慮哪些調整呢？謝謝。

Yeah. Listen, I don't think we need to make any kind of adjustment. I mean I've been -- I was asked in the past about how I felt about the willingness of people in leadership positions in the prior administration to close orders. And I was very consistent in my belief that the regulators are very objective when it comes to these things. They're very fact-based.

是的。聽著，我認為我們不需要做任何調整。我的意思是，過去有人問過我，我對前政府領導層關閉訂單的意願有何看法。我一直堅信，監管機構在這些事情上是非常客觀的。他們非常注重事實。

They want us to see to do the work. They want us to do their validation. And if we do that, they'll close the orders. And we've seen that. We've had 11 closes since 2019. And so I think -- I don't think the change in administration suggests that we need to do anything differently.

他們希望我們看到並完成這項工作。他們想讓我們幫他們驗證。如果我們那樣做，他們就會關閉訂單。我們已經看到了這一點。自 2019 年以來，我們已經完成了 11 筆交易。所以我認為——我不認為政府換屆意味著我們需要做任何不同的事情。

I do think, certainly, the view that this administration has and the people that are both -- whether they're acting or those that have been nominated or those that are in new positions would certainly want to be constructive when it comes to not just regulation, but supervision. And so I presume that they will react in a very positive way to the progress that they've seen us made.

我確實認為，本屆政府及其成員——無論是代理官員、被提名人還是新上任的官員——肯定都希望在監管和監督方面採取建設性措施。因此，我認為他們會對我們所取得的進展做出非常積極的反應。

And I would point you to the quote in the press release about our view on the importance of the work that's been completed in the closed consent orders and what that means for some of the orders that are outstanding. And so I think these things come together to not have us feel any different, meaning we still are extremely confident in our ability to do what needs to get done here.

我想請您注意新聞稿中的一段引述，這段引述闡述了我們對已完成的封閉式同意令工作的重要性的看法，以及這對一些尚未完成的命令意味著什麼。所以我覺得這些因素加在一起，讓我們感覺沒有任何不同，這意味著我們仍然對我們有能力完成這裡需要做的事情充滿信心。

Great. And Mike, one for you. You mentioned that you did a little bit of adjustment on the reserve. I think people are noticing that the reserve -- there was a bit of a reserve release, you guys are one of the more conservative in your scenarios. But can you kind of just talk through just how you feel about where you stand now and how the environment also just makes you think about whether that was fully captured in the first quarter reserve? Or are there any things we should be thinking about going forward? Thanks.

偉大的。還有麥克，給你來一杯。你提到你對儲備金做了一些調整。我認為人們已經注意到儲備金有所釋放，你們的預測方案是比較保守的。但您能否談談您對目前處境的感受，以及當前的環境如何讓您思考第一季的儲備是否充分反映了這一點？或者，我們接下來還有哪些方面需要考慮？謝謝。

Yeah, sure. I think, first, in terms of the adjustment we made that I highlighted, it was a couple of hundred million dollars. And so we would have had a bigger release given both the change in balances we saw in the quarter, but also sort of the credit performance, which has been really, really good. And you can kind of see that come -- look at the charge-offs. And so it would have been a bigger release.

當然可以。我認為，首先，就我重點提到的我們所做的調整而言，金額高達數億美元。因此，考慮到本季餘額的變化以及信貸表現（信貸表現真的非常好），我們本應推出更大規模的債券。這一點從註銷額就能看出來。因此，它的發行規模會更大。

I think when you take a step back and look at the way we've approached the allowance now for consistently now for a number of years, we start with a pretty significant weighting on the downside scenarios, so we have a baseline scenario, we have a couple of downside scenarios. And we've had a pretty significant weighting on those scenarios now for a number of years.

我認為，當我們回顧過去幾年我們處理準備金的方式時，我們會發現我們首先會非常重視不利情況，所以我們有一個基準情況，也有幾個不利情況。多年來，我們一直非常重視這些情境。

When you look at how that projects out and you can see a little bit of this in the [Q], but it's not -- it doesn't quite give you the whole time series. But when you look at what that shows is it shows unemployment kind of getting to a little over 5.8%, so a little under 6% out a couple of quarters versus what you might see in the Q. So it already is pretty a pretty significant uptick in sort of unemployment running through the models. But I would also point out, like that's like step one.

當你觀察它的投影方式時，你可以在 [Q] 中看到一些這樣的內容，但它並沒有——它並不能完全給你完整的時間序列。但從數據顯示的情況來看，失業率在過去幾季略高於5.8%，略低於6%，這與你在本季可能看到的水平有所不同。因此，根據模型預測，失業率已經出現了相當顯著的上升。但我還要指出，這只是第一步。

So running the models, getting 5.8% as like the unemployment, that's step one in terms of where we get with the allowance.

因此，在運行模型後，得出的失業率為 5.8%，這是我們確定補貼目標的第一步。

Step two is then really being thoughtful about all of the things the models might not capture appropriately. And so we increased the allowance based on a lot of the judgment that we then apply across the different risks that might be there within the scenario. So I would sort of take comfort that.

第二步是認真思考模型可能無法恰當捕捉到的一切。因此，我們根據對各種可能的風險所做的判斷，提高了撥備。所以，我多少會感到些許安慰。

One, we do have a pretty good weighting there on the downside. It is 5.8% of employment, and then we add more allowance on top of it. Now will that change based on the path of the economy, maybe, right? We've got to see where this starts to go. If we have a much deeper recession, would you see allowance uptick?

第一，我們在下檔方面確實有相當不錯的權重。這佔就業人數的 5.8%，然後我們在此基礎上再增加一些津貼。現在，這種情況會隨著經濟走向而改變嗎？也許會吧？我們得看看事情會如何發展。如果經濟衰退程度更嚴重，您認為津貼會增加嗎？

Probably, but I think if something has got to change pretty changes in terms of the outlook in a pretty significant way. And I'd sort of bring you back to where Charlie was before, when clients coming into this are in really pretty good shape, right? And you can see that through the charge-off performance. And so both on the consumer side in good shape.

或許吧，但我認為如果有什麼事情必須改變，那前景就會發生相當大的變化。我會帶你回到查理之前的狀態，那時候來找他的客戶身體狀況都相當不錯，對吧？從沖銷表現也可以看出這一點。因此，消費者一方和另一方的狀況都很好。

We're not seeing deterioration happen in any meaningful way relative to what the trend that we've had over the last couple of quarters, even on that lower end consumer and on the corporate side, same thing, very consistent performance now for a number of quarters. And really, the only place that we've seen any systematic stress is still the office portfolio and even there, it's been pretty stable in terms of the trends and what our expectations have been.

相對於過去幾季的趨勢，我們沒有看到任何實質的惡化，即使在低端消費者和企業方面也是如此，連續幾個季度都保持了非常穩定的業績。事實上，我們唯一看到系統性壓力的地方仍然是辦公大樓投資組合，即便如此，就趨勢和我們的預期而言，它也相當穩定。

And let me just add a couple of things, if I can, and emphasize a couple of things Mike said.

如果可以的話，我想補充幾點，並強調麥克說的幾點。

First of all, when you look at our change in reserve this quarter, it came down because loan balances came down and because we had charge-offs really in our commercial property portfolio where we have substantial reserves and so it's appropriate to use those. As Mike said, our modeling, which we think is very -- well, you can argue, but we think it's appropriate and probably on the conservative side given the unemployment numbers and the way we weight our scenarios would have suggested a release.

首先，從本季我們的儲備金變化來看，儲備金下降是因為貸款餘額下降，以及我們在商業房地產投資組合中進行了核銷，而我們擁有大量的儲備金，因此使用這些儲備金是合適的。正如麥克所說，我們的模型（我們認為非常——好吧，你可以爭辯，但我們認為它是合適的，而且考慮到失業率以及我們對各種情景的加權方式，它可能偏保守）表明應該發佈公告。

And so away from those two places where we did reduce the reserve, we kept what we think are relatively conservative assumptions for unemployment and the weighting of scenarios and didn't release. So it's more conservative today than it was at the end of last quarter, which is -- which was an intentional reaction to what we see going on out there. But as Mike said, would that be enough under a range of scenarios, it depends on how bad the scenario were to get.

因此，除了我們確實減少了儲備的那兩個地方之外，我們保留了我們認為相對保守的失業率假設和情景權重，並且沒有發布相關數據。所以，今天的情況比上個季度末保守得多，這是對我們所看到的外部情況的一種有意反應。但正如麥克所說，在各種情況下這是否足夠，取決於情況會變得多麼糟糕。

John McDonald, Truist Securities.

John McDonald，Truist Securities。

Mike, I was wondering if you could give a little more color on what you saw at commercial loan growth this quarter. It seemed like it picked up a little bit change in utilization or a build-out of customers. Just give a little color there, please.

麥克，我想請你詳細介紹一下本季商業貸款成長的情況。似乎利用率或客戶數量增加。請在那裡加點顏色。

Yeah. Sure, John. First, in the commercial bank, it was mostly a utilization story. There may have been a few new customers utilization, mostly in kind of the bigger client segment, so the mid-corporate segment, not the smaller clients in the commercial bank. We also saw some upticks in our asset-based lending portfolio as well, both in -- all in the commercial bank.

是的。當然可以，約翰。首先，在商業銀行，這主要是一個利用率的問題。可能會有一些新客戶使用，主要集中在較大的客戶群，即中型企業客戶，而不是商業銀行的小客戶。我們也看到，我們的資產抵押貸款組合也出現了一些成長，全部來自商業銀行。

Again, mostly utilization, but a little bit of a couple of new clients. And then we also saw some uptick in the corporate investment bank. Again, a mix there of utilization and a couple of new clients that sort of came into the portfolio. And so it was encouraging to see that. And the question I got earlier in the day, too, was it related to kind of tariffs? Or was it related to just BAU sort of borrowing? And it appears like it was mostly just BAU activity out there.

再次強調，主要是客戶利用率的提高，但也新增了幾個客戶。然後，我們也看到企業投資銀行出現了一些成長。同樣，這其中既有現有客戶的使用，也有一些新客戶加入了我們的業務組合。看到這一點令人鼓舞。今天早些時候我還被問到，這是否與某種關稅有關？或者，這只是與日常營運中的借貸有關？看起來，外面基本上都是日常營運活動。

We haven't really seen any evidence of people prepositioning significantly that caused significant borrowing at least as it relates to their expectations around tariffs.

我們還沒有看到任何證據表明人們為了應對關稅預期而進行大規模的預先部署，從而導致大規模借貸。

Got it. Thanks. And I was wondering if you could give some more color on what you saw this quarter in terms of the market-sensitive fee businesses across trading, IB, and venture capital. How did the environment impact this quarter? And what should we keep in mind as we think about the outlook for those items?

知道了。謝謝。我想請您詳細介紹本季您在交易、投資銀行和創投等市場敏感型費用業務方面看到的情況。本季環境狀況對哪些方面產生了影響？那麼，在考慮這些項目的前景時，我們應該牢記哪些因素呢？

Yeah. First, on the venture portfolio. What you saw was a couple of things in that portfolio. One, we had an exit event late last year, and we're in a lockup period on an IPO. And so you saw some mark-to-market losses on that stock, and that's been moving around a little bit, but that was part of it. But still, by the way, an amazing return on that investment, even with the noise there.

是的。首先，我們來看創投組合。你看到的只是那份作品集中的幾項內容。第一，我們去年底進行了一次退出事件，而且我們目前正處於 IPO 的鎖定期。所以你會看到這隻股票出現了一些市值計價的損失，而且價格也有些波動，但這只是其中的一部分。但話說回來，即使存在一些幹擾因素，這項投資的回報仍然非常驚人。

And then you had some impairments across a number of portfolios. And given the volatility that we've seen in the equity market, in particular, but also just more broadly, that's going to have an impact on exits coming out of that venture portfolio and kind of pushing them back in time. And so you really have to -- that number can be a little volatile quarter-to-quarter. So you really have to look at that over a slightly longer period of time.

然後，你們的多個投資組合都出現了一些減損。鑑於我們在股票市場，尤其是更廣泛的股票市場中看到的波動性，這將對創投組合的退出產生影響，並在某種程度上推遲退出時間。所以你真的必須注意——這個數字每季可能會有些波動。所以你真的需要從更長的時間跨度來觀察這個問題。

But overall, we still -- we feel really good about the portfolio. We feel good about the investments that are made there, and it's just going to take some time to monetize it given some of the volatility. When you look at trading, which I guess is part of the other piece, we've got a decent quarter in trading really across a number of different debts there, and that's just a continuation of what we've seen now for the better part of, I guess, two or three years almost now where we've gotten better and better and more consistent at driving good results there. And then obviously, we have some volatility coming into this quarter in early April at least. And so we'll see how that progresses through the rest of the quarter.

但總的來說，我們仍然——我們對投資組合感到非常滿意。我們對在那裡進行的投資感到滿意，只是考慮到市場波動性，需要一些時間才能實現盈利。就交易而言（我認為這是另一部分），我們在許多不同的債務方面都取得了不錯的季度交易成績，這延續了我們近兩三年來取得的良好業績，我們在推動業績增長方面變得越來越好，越來越穩定。顯然，至少在四月初，本季將會出現一些波動。所以，我們將看看本季剩餘時間情況會如何發展。

Okay. And just again on the IB, obviously, things have kind of ground to a halt a bit on activity levels, but you guys are building out your investment bank and adding people. Just kind of some thoughts there would be helpful. Thanks.

好的。再說一下投資銀行方面，顯然，業務活動水準已經有些停滯不前，但你們仍在擴大投資銀行並增加人員。一些想法或許會有幫助。謝謝。

Yeah. No, look, the investments that we're making continue. We've announced a few more over the last number of weeks with different people joining in different roles. We've got a really disciplined plan there. And we'll continue to make those.

是的。不，你看，我們的投資仍在繼續。在過去幾周里，我們陸續宣布了幾項人事變動，不同的人將擔任不同的職位。我們制定了一個非常周密的計劃。我們將繼續生產這些產品。

And as you know, you really have to have consistent coverage and product capabilities over a long period of time, and we're going to continue to do that.

如您所知，您必須在很長一段時間內保持持續的覆蓋範圍和產品能力，我們將繼續這樣做。

I think in the activity, what you saw in the quarter was really led by debt capital markets, not surprising. Probably, you did see a little bit of equity capital markets activity at this -- with the volatility that we've seen over the last two weeks, it's going to be hard to see much activity in the equity capital market space until that calms down a bit. I think I do expect you'll continue to see good activity in debt capital markets.

我認為，本季市場活動主要由債務資本市場主導，這並不令人意外。或許，你確實看到了一些股票資本市場活動——但鑑於過去兩週的波動性，在波動性稍微平靜下來之前，股票資本市場領域很難出現太多活動。我認為債務資本市場將繼續保持良好的活躍態勢。

And then M&A, the conversations are good. The pipeline is good. And to Charlie's point earlier, I think it's going to be dependent on when people start to get a little bit more certainty around the policy adjustments that are being made and how that's going to impact their business. So we'll see how that goes. But it's -- as you know, in investment banking, it's a long game. And so we need to be consistent there over a long period of time, and that's the goal.

至於併購方面，討論進展順利。管道狀況良好。正如查理之前提到的，我認為這將取決於人們何時開始對正在進行的政策調整以及這些調整將如何影響他們的業務有更多確定性。我們拭目以待。但如你所知，在投資銀行業，這是一場持久戰。所以我們需要在很長一段時間內保持這種一致性，這就是我們的目標。

Steven Chubak, Wolfe Research.

史蒂文‧丘巴克，沃爾夫研究中心。

Maybe just a follow-up to the discussion around the fee outlook, maybe within expense lens or framing it with an expense lens, just given the better core expense outcome in the quarter versus the quarterly run rate implied by the full-year guide and some of the headwinds you cited just on the fee side from various impairments or negative AUM marks, I was hoping you could speak to the expense flexibility in the model if the fee outlook or backdrop continues to deteriorate further?

或許可以就費用前景的討論做個後續，或許可以從費用角度來看待這個問題，鑑於本季度核心費用結果優於全年指引所隱含的季度運行率，以及您提到的費用方面因各種減值或負資產管理規模標記而面臨的一些不利因素，我希望您能談談，如果費用前景或背景繼續進一步惡化，該模型在費用方面的靈活性如何？

Yeah, sure. Look, I think there's always a degree of flexibility as you go through the year. We want to try to make sure that we stay consistent and execute on a lot of the core investments we're making. But if you start with like the easy ones, right, if the market continues to decline from where it is today, you'll see less revenue-related expense, particularly in Wealth and Investment Management. The IB comp will be a function of sort of activity and revenue that we see throughout the year.

當然可以。我認為，在這一年中，總是會有一定的彈性。我們希望努力確保保持一致性，並落實我們正在進行的許多核心投資。但是，如果你從容易入手的專案開始，對吧？如果市場繼續從目前的水平下滑，你會看到與收入相關的支出減少，尤其是在財富和投資管理方面。IB 業績將取決於我們全年觀察到的各種活動和收入。

And so there's some flexibility obviously there depending on sort of where revenues come in. I think we've seen really good performance in the quarter on operating losses. So we gave you an estimation there. That's obviously running below sort of the run rate. So there's -- hopefully, that will continue as well.

所以，顯然這方面有一定的彈性，取決於收入來源。我認為本季我們在控制營運虧損方面取得了非常好的成績。所以我們給你做了一個估算。顯然，這低於正常水平。所以，希望這種情況也能持續下去。

And so I think it's an active -- we're actively managing that each week, each month, each quarter as we have now for the last four or five years. And so we'll take action if we think this is going to be sustained in some way. But while we protect some of the core investments that we need to make.

所以我認為這是一個積極的——我們每週、每月、每季都在積極地管理它，就像過去四到五年我們一直在做的那樣。因此，如果我們認為這種情況會持續下去，我們將採取行動。但同時，我們也要保護一些我們必須進行的核心投資。

Thanks for the color. And Mike, for my follow-up, I was hoping to drill down to some of the NII comments you made around the second half ramp and some of the [video] factors like the CD roll off you cited -- it's certainly encouraging guide, especially given the changes in the forward curve. But myself and others appear to be struggling to reconcile some of the resiliency in literally with all the incremental cuts that are now in the forward curve.

謝謝你提供的色彩。麥克，我的後續問題是，我希望深入探討你對 NII 在下半場上漲趨勢的一些評論，以及你提到的一些[視頻]因素，比如 CD 滾降——這無疑是一個令人鼓舞的指南，尤其是在前向曲線發生變化的情況下。但我和其他人似乎很難將實際存在的一些韌性與目前未來曲線中所有逐步削減的措施調和起來。

And I was hoping you could maybe just speak to the exit rate on NII, once those cuts are fully absorbed, just as we try to think about the jumping off point looking ahead to 2026.

我希望您能談談 NII 的退出率，一旦這些削減措施完全被消化，就像我們展望 2026 年時思考的起點一樣。

Yeah. I mean that's a difficult one, right, to give you a lot of specificity. I can understand why you want me to try to do that. But I think, obviously, rates are one factor that go into sort of the jumping off point. I think as you just sort of look at the -- where the forwards are relative to what we showed you in January, as I said earlier, you're 40 or 50 basis points lower potentially on the forwards and it's part of the second half of the year.

是的。我的意思是，要給出非常具體的答案，這確實很難，對吧。我明白你為什麼希望我嘗試這樣做。但我認為，很顯然，利率是影響決策的起點之一。我認為，當你看一下前鋒的位置，與我們在一月份展示的位置相比，正如我之前所說，前鋒的位置可能低了 40 或 50 個基點，這是下半年的情況。

But remember, the fourth quarter, the cut usually comes in later in the quarter. So it doesn't have a lot of -- it doesn't have a big impact in 2025.

但請記住，第四季度，裁員通常會在季度末進行。所以它對 2025 年的影響不大。

And then I think loan growth, we're still expecting to see some loan growth. We think some of it will be resilient to the environment, but some of it, obviously, in the commercial bank and some of the corporate franchise is going to be a function of the broader macro view here. And so we'll see how it sort of plays out. But I think trying to estimate where 2020 -- where we're going to exit 2025 is not something I think we're going to try to get very specific on at this point.

至於貸款成長，我們仍然預期會看到一些貸款成長。我們認為其中一些業務能夠抵禦環境變化的影響，但顯然，商業銀行和企業特許經營業務中的一些業務將取決於更廣泛的宏觀情況。所以，我們拭目以待，看看事情會如何發展。但我認為，試圖預測 2020 年到 2025 年的走向，目前我們還不宜做非常具體的預測。

And I would just remind everyone that just as we plan for different scenarios, you all should plan for different scenarios as opposed to just what the forward curve us.

我還要提醒大家，正如我們為不同的情況制定計劃一樣，你們也應該為不同的情況制定計劃，而不是僅僅根據未來的發展趨勢來製定計劃。

Yeah, forward curve is usually wrong.

是的，遠期曲線通常是不準確的。

And changes dramatically.

並發生巨大變化。

It's almost always wrong and is always changing. So I could certainly appreciate that sentiment. Thanks so much for taking questions.

它幾乎總是錯誤的，而且總是在變化。所以我完全能夠理解這種感受。非常感謝您回答問題。

Betsy Graseck, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的貝齊·格拉塞克。

Charlie, a couple of questions for you. One is on the 5 consent orders that were closed so far year-to-date, 2025. And I'm just wondering, how does that impact you? Does that give you more management time? Does it enable you to take down expenses at all? Does it make you more efficient? Or not. I'm just wondering if there's any tangible impact that we should see from this?

查理，我有幾個問題想問你。其中一項是關於截至 2025 年已結案的 5 項同意令。我只是想知道，這會對你產生什麼影響？這樣能讓你有更多的時間管理嗎？它能讓你減少開支嗎？它能提高你的效率嗎？或不。我只是想知道這件事是否會產生任何實際影響？

Yes, that's a good question. I would -- listen, I think as we adjust and been doing all of the work that needs to get done individually on consent orders takes up a lot of management time and a lot of internal and external resources. So as we complete the work, we have to dedicate less resources towards like the project aspect of getting these things done.

是的，這是個好問題。我會——聽著，我認為隨著我們不斷調整，並且一直在逐一完成所有需要就同意令進行的工作，這會佔用大量的管理時間以及大量的內部和外部資源。因此，隨著工作的完成，我們需要減少投入專案管理的資源。

And the fact that like the operating committee spends the first chunk of time in every management committee meeting we have our operating committee, we have going through where we are on these things, absolutely, it clears up time for us to do other things and focus on other things.

而且，就像營運委員會在每次管理委員會會議上都會花一部分時間來討論這些事情的進展情況一樣，我們的營運委員會也會在每次會議上花一部分時間來討論這些事情的進展情況，這絕對可以騰出時間讓我們去做其他事情，專注於其他事情。

The fact that the consent orders are closed doesn't mean we're going to stop doing the work. It doesn't mean that we're not committed to doing what's underlying that work. But we do then have a chance to figure out are we doing everything as efficiently as we can because now we have a much better understanding of the control environment and how to run it properly. So I wouldn't put a number on it per se, but it does give us more degrees of freedom, certainly in terms of how we run the place.

同意令的結束並不意味著我們將停止工作。但這並不意味著我們不致力於完成這項工作背後的基礎工作。但我們因此有機會弄清楚我們是否以盡可能高效的方式做事，因為現在我們對控制環境以及如何正確運作它有了更深入的了解。所以我不會給出一個具體的數字，但這確實給了我們更大的自由度，尤其是在我們如何經營這個地方方面。

Okay. And then the follow-up is you mentioned in your remarks about being excited about the future and it would be helpful to understand how you're thinking about that. What underlies that statement, especially given you still do have the asset cap on. I mean, we're all expecting at some point it will be taken off. But in an environment with the asset cap still on, what underlines that statement; and environment without it, what underlines that statement would be helpful to unpack a bit.

好的。其次，您在演講中提到對未來感到興奮，如果您能了解您對此有何想法，那就太好了。這句話背後的含義是什麼？尤其是在你們仍然實施資產上限的情況下。我的意思是，我們都預料到它遲早會被撤掉。但是，在資產上限仍然存在的情況下，是什麼支撐了這一說法；以及在沒有資產上限的情況下，又是什麼支撐了這一說法，這些都需要仔細分析一下。

Sure. So in an environment where the asset cap is still on, I think what you've seen us do over the past four or five years is to focus on growing businesses where we don't rely on balance sheet, which, by the way, are things we should be doing anyway because they're important strategic things for us to grow to round out our franchise.

當然。因此，在資產上限仍然生效的環境下，我認為在過去四、五年裡，我們所做的就是專注於發展那些不依賴資產負債表的業務。順便說一句，無論如何，我們都應該這樣做，因為這些對我們發展壯大、完善我們的特許經營體系來說，都是重要的策略舉措。

And so whether it's been focused on spending in the card business, whether it's focused on our investing in the wealth business, whether it's building out the fee-based businesses in the corporate investment bank, be it underwriting, be it advisory, be it our treasury management businesses, the focus we have on delivering those products and services into the commercial bank, those are all things we've been investing in significantly and have helped our noninterest revenues. And those things are going to continue with or without an asset cap. And we think all give us significant opportunity.

因此，無論是專注於信用卡業務的支出，還是專注於財富管理業務的投資，亦或是拓展企業投資銀行的收費業務（包括承銷、諮詢和資金管理業務），我們都致力於將這些產品和服務引入商業銀行，這些都是我們投入大量資金的領域，並有助於提高我們的非利息收入。無論有沒有資產上限，這些事情都會繼續發生。我們認為所有這些都為我們帶來了重要的機會。

In a world without an asset cap, as I talked about multiple times, we have limited our ability to grow, the ability to finance customers and our trading businesses and associated inventory. We wouldn't look for -- don't expect any kind of step functions in how we think about risk there, but just facilitating more customer activity balance sheet certainly would be very helpful. And as loan demand picks up across all of our businesses, it has -- gives us the opportunity to grow there as well as not having to limit deposits as we've had to limit deposits all along.

正如我多次提到的，在沒有資產上限的世界裡，我們的成長能力、為客戶融資的能力以及我們的交易業務和相關庫存都受到了限制。我們不會去尋找——不要指望我們在考慮風險的方式上會有任何階躍函數，但促進更多客戶活動資產負債表肯定會非常有幫助。隨著我們所有業務的貸款需求增加，這給了我們發展的機會，而且不必像以前那樣限制存款。

So just the financial dynamics with and without an asset cap, I think, lead us to feel very, very good about the future. And I've talked in the past and in the shareholder letter strategically about why we think we're so well positioned in all of our businesses. Hopefully, that's helpful.

所以，我認為，無論有沒有資產上限，光是金融動態就足以讓我們對未來感到非常非常樂觀。我過去曾在致股東的信中從策略角度闡述過，為什麼我們認為我們所有的業務都處於非常有利的地位。希望這能有所幫助。

And is there an opportunity for an even elevated -- more elevated ROE, ROTCE outlook here as you progress through that opportunity set?

隨著你逐步推進這些投資機會，是否有機會獲得更高水準的 ROE 和 ROTCE 前景？

Listen, I would say, we aren't going to be happy until we get to the 15% that we told you we were going to get to, which we -- in terms of having it be sustainable. And then we said when we get there, we're going to look at where we should be. And we don't think our businesses or let me say differently, our business -- each business individually has the opportunity to have the returns amongst the best in the industry.

聽著，我想說，在我們達到我們告訴你們的15%的目標之前，我們是不會滿意的，而且我們——就可持續性而言。然後我們說，到了那裡之後，我們會看看我們應該在哪裡。我們不認為我們的企業，或者更確切地說，我們的企業——每個企業都有機會獲得業界最佳的回報。

And then you wait that to look at like what we think about in terms of we -- answer the question, why we shouldn't get there eventually. That's how we think about it. But we also know that we're going to continue to grow investments and things like that. So we feel very good about what's in front of us, regardless of the short-term volatility that we see in the economic environment in the markets.

然後你等待它，看看我們從「我們」的角度思考——回答這個問題，為什麼我們最終不應該達到那個目標。我們是這麼想的。但我們也知道，我們會繼續增加投資等等。因此，儘管市場經濟環境有短期波動，但我們對眼前的情況感到非常樂觀。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

Ebrahim Poonawala，美國銀行。

I guess maybe just on the last thing you mentioned, Charlie, around each business should have best-in-class ROE. You've talked about that for a while. Like, the consumer business, obviously, stands out there. Give us a sense of how much of that improvement in the consumer business on ROE is a removal of the asset cap? Maybe there's some efficiency opportunities that arise out of that versus better using our branch network after the consent order that got lifted last Feb.

我想也許就你提到的最後一點而言，查理，每個業務都應該有業內最佳的淨資產收益率。你們已經談論這個問題一段時間了。顯然，消費品產業在這方面表現突出。請您簡要說明一下，消費業務淨資產收益率的提高有多少是由於取消資產上限所致？或許，與去年二月解除同意令後更好地利用我們的分公司網絡相比，這會帶來一些提高效率的機會。

Just would love to hear how we should think about that ROE gap relative to best-in-class peers, narrowing from here? And if there's a time frame that you have in mind?

我很想知道我們應該如何看待與業界最佳同行相比的 ROE 差距，以及如何縮小這一差距？如果您心中已有時間範圍，那會怎麼樣呢？

Well, I'm not going to talk about a time frame because again, what we've said very consistently is get to 15%. And so that's what we're focused on. And when we get there, then we'll talk about how we think of the overall returns at that point. But I'm just trying to provide some context for how we think about what the longer-term opportunities here are.

嗯，我不會談論時間框架，因為我們一直強調的是要達到 15%。所以這就是我們關注的重點。等我們到了那個時候，我們再來討論我們如何看待當時的整體回報。但我只是想為我們如何看待這裡的長期機會提供一些背景資訊。

When we talk about, internally, the opportunity to increase ROE -- and I just want to also make the statement that we're focused not only on growing sustainable ROTCE, but we're focused on sustainable growth because it would be very easy for us to get to a much higher ROTCE number without investing to build the kind of growth we want to build into the franchise.

當我們在內部討論提高 ROE 的機會時——我還想聲明，我們不僅專注於實現可持續的 ROTCE 增長，而且專注於可持續增長，因為如果我們不投資來構建我們想要在特許經營中建立的那種增長，我們很容易就能獲得更高的 ROTCE 數值。

And so that does elongate the time theoretically that it takes to get to some of these industry-leading numbers because it's not lost on us that some of our great competitors have both very high ROTCEs while investing significantly, and they've been doing that over a long period of time to get to where they are.

因此，從理論上講，這確實會延長達到這些行業領先數字所需的時間，因為我們很清楚，我們的一些優秀競爭對手在進行大量投資的同時，也擁有非常高的 ROTCE，而且他們已經這樣做了很長時間才達到現在的成就。

But when I think about just specifically the consumer business, and I referred to some of these things in our shareholder letter. When we think about our consumer lending business, almost all of our businesses in our Consumer Lending segment are earning far below the ROTCE that they should be earning for different reasons.

但當我具體思考消費者業務時，我在給股東的信中也提到其中的一些事情。當我們檢視我們的消費信貸業務時，由於各種原因，我們消費信貸部門幾乎所有業務的收益都遠低於其應有的ROTCE（已動用股東權益回報率）。

We're in a growth phase in the card business. We've talked about just what that means in terms of how so many of the expenses are front-loaded balances get built over a period of time. But as long as the results play out on top of the models that we assumed, we know that's just a matter of time until those returns increase significantly.

我們正處於信用卡業務的成長階段。我們已經討論過這意味著什麼，即許多支出都是前期投入，餘額會在一段時間內累積起來。但只要結果符合我們假設的模型，我們就知道這些收益大幅成長只是時間問題。

Our Auto business is on a journey. Programs, obviously, we've got some question marks in terms of what tariffs will mean to some of our partner out there. But the deal that we've done to be the captive on new cars with Volkswagen, Audi, we think certainly is a significant plus, will help us become more of a full-spectrum lender where we can increase the profitability of that business.

我們的汽車業務正處於轉型期。顯然，在關稅對我們的一些合作夥伴意味著什麼方面，我們還有一些疑問。但是，我們與大眾汽車和奧迪達成的獨家經銷新車的協議，我們認為無疑是一個巨大的優勢，這將有助於我們成為一家全方位貸款機構，從而提高該業務的盈利能力。

And we're still on a journey, which we're very confident we're going to get there, not just to run a better home lending business, but that business is not -- does not have the returns that it should, and that's just as we transition to this different model.

我們仍在努力，我們非常有信心能夠實現目標，不僅是為了更好地經營房屋貸款業務，而且這項業務目前還沒有獲得應有的回報，而這正是我們向這種不同模式過渡的原因。

So we look at those things and then when we look at our consumer and small business bank, the returns are very strong, but we've not had the kind of growth that other people have had, and I've talked about the constraints that we've had there. But we feel really good about what we're doing. And so there, as you see that growth given the nature of the business, it's not capital intensive per se, so it increases returns. And so we see a pretty clear path in our consumer businesses for some material improvements.

所以我們考察了這些因素，然後當我們審視我們的消費者和小型企業銀行業務時，雖然回報非常強勁，但我們並沒有像其他人那樣實現成長，我已經談到了我們在這方面遇到的限制。但我們對我們正在做的事情感到非常滿意。因此，正如你所看到的，鑑於該業務的性質，這種成長本身並不是資本密集的，因此可以提高回報。因此，我們看到消費者業務方面存在著一條相當清晰的實現實質改善的道路。

That's helpful. And just a second question. Would love to hear how you're thinking about capital management. Now your SCB went up 90 basis points last year and we'll see what the results have come end of June.

那很有幫助。還有一個問題。很想聽聽您對資本管理的看法。去年渣打銀行的利率上漲了90個基點，我們將在6月底看看結果如何。

But would -- assuming we have a similar size or some decline this year, is there an internal philosophy around where you think the right CET1 is for Wells regardless of where the SCB shakes out? And does potential changes in sort of the regulatory backdrop reduce the need for a 100 basis point buffer in terms of how you've thought about that?

但是—假設今年規模與往年相似或有所下降，無論渣打銀行的最終結果如何，您認為富國銀行的 CET1 股票價格應該是多少？那麼，監管環境的潛在變化是否會降低 100 個基點緩衝的必要性？您是這麼認為的？

Yes. Listen, I would say -- Mike, I'll start and then you either correct me or add to it based on what you think. Listen, our SCB went up 90 basis points last year, and we have no idea why. When we look at the company, when we look at the balance sheet of the company, when we look at the businesses, we're a less risky business today. We have higher margins, higher returns than we had.

是的。聽著，我想說──麥克，我先開始，然後你根據你的想法糾正我或補充我。聽著，我們的渣打銀行去年漲了90個基點，我們完全不知道為什麼。當我們檢視公司、審視公司的資產負債表、審視各項業務時，就會發現我們如今的業務風險較低。我們現在的利潤率更高，回報率也比以前更高。

And so trying to understand why our SCB went up, just it's illogical. When we look at the scenarios in the CCAR, you've obviously seen them, there are different scenarios, less severe. And so hopefully, that produces a different outcome, but who knows because we haven't had the kind of transparency that we think is appropriate to wait and see. So we've got to get through CCAR before we actually make any of those determinations.

所以，我試著去理解為什麼我們的SCB會上漲，但這根本不合邏輯。當我們查看 CCAR 中的各種情景時，您顯然已經看到了，其中有不同的情景，有些不太嚴重。所以，希望這能帶來不同的結果，但誰知道呢，因為我們還沒有獲得我們認為合適的透明度，所以我們只能拭目以待。所以，在做出任何決定之前，我們必須先完成CCAR流程。

And then layer on top of that the comments that we've heard from regulators of their commitment to increase transparency, to relook at a lot of these things, both from the Fed as well as the administration's desire to look at these things. And it appears that we have more aligned regulators across the different regulators have to agree on some of these things away from what's just specifically in the Fed's purview.

此外，我們也聽到監管機構表示致力於提高透明度，重新審視許多此類事項，而聯準會和政府都希望審視這些事項。而且，看起來不同監管機構之間的協調更加一致，他們必須就一些超出聯準會職權範圍的事情達成共識。

So I think all of these things align to a better capital environment, which means it gives us more flexibility to serve customers. I said this in my comments, that means make loans, take deposits, provide more liquidity in the markets, which banks are supposed to do.

所以我認為所有這些因素都與更好的資本環境一致，這意味著它讓我們有更大的靈活性來服務客戶。我在評論中說過，這意味著發放貸款、吸收存款、為市場提供更多流動性，而這正是銀行應該做的。

But I think it would be wrong for us to get too specific about what that all looks like and how that determines what we think about buffers until we know what they're actually thinking. But directionally, it's certainly a positive, not just from what was proposed, but hopefully from where we are today.

但我認為，在了解緩衝器的實際運作方式之前，我們不應該過於具體地描述這一切看起來是什麼樣子，以及這如何決定我們對緩衝器的看法。但從方向來看，這無疑是正面的，不僅從所提出的方案來看，而且從我們目前的處境來看也是如此。

John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

John Pancari，Evercore ISI。

Just related to that last topic, I just wanted to get your thoughts on how you're feeling about the pace of buybacks here. We saw you bought back $3.5 billion in the quarter and you just talked about your CET1 level where it stands now. How are you feeling about the pace of buybacks as you look forward, particularly if we are looking at some softening in the economic backdrop, does that make you feel any different in terms of how you're approaching the pace of buyback.

關於上一個主題，我想聽聽你對目前股票回購速度的看法。我們看到你在本季回購了 35 億美元，你剛才也談到了你目前的 CET1 水準。展望未來，您對股票回購的速度有何感想？尤其是在經濟環境出現疲軟的情況下，這是否會讓您在製定股票回購速度時產生不同的感受？

Yeah, John, it's Mike. I'll take a shot at that. And look, our approach is no different in this environment than it is every quarter since we've been here. We start with like what's the opportunity set we have in terms of providing -- supporting clients either through loans or other activity. We go through a series of conversations around risks that are there in the short and medium and longer term and then whatever is left is sort of goes towards buyback if we think it's appropriate.

是的，約翰，我是麥克。我來試試。而且，我們採取的方法在這種環境下與我們在這裡以來每個季度採取的方法並無不同。我們首先要考慮的是我們有哪些機會可以為客戶提供支持，無論是透過貸款還是其他活動。我們會圍繞短期、中期和長期存在的風險進行一系列討論，然後剩下的資金，如果我們認為合適的話，就會用於股票回購。

And I think we'll go through that same process. We've tried really hard not to get in this game of trying to predict like each quarter what we're going to buy back. But I think, as we've said, we've got capacity to do more. It's been a priority for us over the last number of years, and we'll continue to go through the same process we go through and see where we end up.

我認為我們也會經歷同樣的過程。我們一直努力避免陷入這種每季都要預測我們將回購什麼股票的遊戲。但我認為，正如我們所說，我們有能力做得更多。在過去幾年裡，這一直是我們的首要任務，我們將繼續經歷相同的流程，看看最終結果如何。

And just to emphasize what Mike said, because we said this I think in our remarks, is we have a very strong capital position now. We have significant excess capital, and that's been very, very intentional both -- well, at the time we were unsure whether or not capital requirements were going to go up and what was necessary there, that seems to be off the table. And directionally, it looks like it will go the other way.

我還要強調一下麥克剛才說的話，因為我覺得我們在發言中也提到過，我們現在的資本實力非常雄厚。我們擁有大量剩餘資本，這完全是出於有意為之——當時我們不確定資本需求是否會上升以及需要採取哪些措施，但現在看來，這個問題已經排除在外了。從方向來看，似乎會朝相反的方向發展。

But we're also in this period of uncertainty. So we have the flexibility, certainly to continue to buy stock back given the position that we have. And we're just going to have to evaluate it throughout the quarter as time goes on. But we'll certainly tell you when there's more to talk about.

但我們也正處於一個充滿不確定性的時期。因此，鑑於我們目前的處境，我們當然有足夠的彈性繼續回購股票。我們只能在整個季度中隨著時間的推移不斷評估它。但如果有更多內容要討論，我們一定會通知您。

Got it. Okay. And then separately on credit. On the commercial front, are you seeing any indications of borrowers beginning to draw down lines as a precaution, given the economic backdrop and recessionary fears.

知道了。好的。然後分別以信用卡方式購買。在商業方面，鑑於當前的經濟狀況和對經濟衰退的擔憂，您是否看到任何跡象表明借款人開始出於預防目的提取貸款？

And then secondly, on the commercial front, I guess, just to apply to consumer as well. Is there any areas that you're tightening lending standards incrementally now post the tariff announcement and the economic implications where you're looking at things more cautiously and therefore, tighten?

其次，從商業角度來看，我想，這也適用於消費者。在關稅公告發布及其經濟影響之後，您是否正在逐步收緊某些領域的貸款標準？您是否因為更謹慎地看待問題而採取了收緊措施？

Yeah. Let me take a stab. So on the draws, we're monitoring it really, really closely, both on the commercial banking side and the CIB side. There's been one -- I mean, literally one draw that we've actually talked about, and we don't really think it relates to COVID. But quite frankly --

是的。讓我來試試看。所以，在提款方面，我們正在非常非常密切地關注，無論是商業銀行方面還是企業及投資銀行方面。我們確實討論過一次平局——我的意思是，真的只有一次——而且我們認為它與新冠疫情無關。但坦白地說--

Tariffs. Sorry. Related to COVID

關稅。對不起。與新冠疫情相關

Definitely, related to COVID. We don't think it relates to tariffs. It's just the situation of that company and not something that anyone is worried about. But it just gives you a sense for how actively we're monitoring draw activity. The moment it happens, we're talking about it. There's communication across everything.

肯定與新冠病毒有關。我們認為這與關稅無關。這只是那家公司的狀況，並非什麼值得大家擔心的事。但這只是讓你感受到我們對抽獎活動的監控。一旦發生，我們就會討論它。各個領域都有溝通。

The second part of the question was, credit-tightening actions. Listen, one of the things -- and I referred to this in my remarks, we have made a whole series of typing actions which have reduced volume, and that's part of the reason why we're seeing such strong credit performance, including on the card side. So we've gone into this environment with what we think are pretty conservative underwriting parameters. We had been having some conversations about whether or not we should reverse some of those.

問題的第二部分是關於信貸緊縮措施。聽著，有一件事——我在演講中也提到過——我們採取了一系列打字措施，減少了打字量，這也是我們看到信貸表現如此強勁的部分原因，包括信用卡方面。因此，我們以相當保守的承保參數進入了目前的環境。我們之前討論過是否應該撤銷其中一些決定。

So we'll certainly be slower in terms of our willingness to do that. And we will sit and have a conversation as you would expect us to do if we really were nervous about how this could affect the consumer, what we should be doing. But we haven't made any decisions at this point but it's a living, breathing thing, which I hope you'd expect us to do.

所以，我們在這件事上的意願一定會比較慢。如果真的擔心這會對消費者造成什麼影響，我們應該怎麼做，我們就會坐下來好好談談，就像你們期望的那樣。但目前我們還沒有做出任何決定，這是一個不斷發展變化的過程，我希望你們也期望我們這樣做。

Matt O'Connor, Deutsche Bank.

馬特‧奧康納，德意志銀行。

I just wanted to follow up on expenses in terms of how much benefit there is still to come from, call it, natural passage of time. You referenced the legacy servicing costs were down significantly from the top. But how much more kind of built those savings? Are there from things like that decisions that you've already made and taken, but just take time to play out.

我只是想跟進支出狀況，看看隨著時間的推移，還能帶來多少收益。您提到傳統維護成本已大幅下降。但是，這些儲蓄究竟累積了多少呢？諸如此類的事情，你是否已經做出了決定，但還需要時間來檢驗結果？

Yeah. I'm not going to quantify it specifically, but as we said probably, I don't know, over and over and over in different forums, we still feel like there's a significant amount of opportunity to make the company more efficient. That's in better automating, what could be manual processes today. It's continuing to take down excess real estate that we might have, which just takes some time to sort of work through.

是的。我不會具體量化，但正如我們可能在不同的論壇上反覆提到的那樣，我們仍然覺得公司有很大的機會提高效率。這就是更好地實現自動化，將目前可能需要人工操作的流程轉變為自動化流程。它正在繼續拆除我們可能擁有的多餘房地產，這需要一些時間來慢慢消化。

It's continuing to work on third-party expenses, operating losses on and on and on. And I'd say there's really almost no part of the company that we feel is completely optimized at this point. And so we're going to continue to just methodically focus on it. And it's not one or two things. It's hundreds of different activities that are underway at any given point that sort of drive a lot of that efficiency work, and we still have more to do.

它仍在不斷地處理第三方費用、營運虧損等問題。而且我認為，目前公司幾乎沒有哪個部門是完全優化的。所以我們會繼續有條不紊地專注於此。而且這並非一兩件事就能解決的。在任何時候，都有數百項不同的活動正在進行，這些活動在很大程度上推動了效率提升工作，但我們還有更多工作要做。

And I guess taking like a more medium-term outlook, my strength has been those opportunities will allow you to self-fund kind of best of your expense base. So conceptually are kind of relatively stable on costs as hopefully, revenue growth picks up a little bit. Is that still a reasonable framework as you think out over the next several years?

從中長期來看，我的優勢在於這些機會能讓你自籌資金，盡可能地彌補你大部分的開銷。因此，從概念上講，成本方面相對穩定，希望收入成長能有所加速。展望未來幾年，你認為這個框架仍然合理嗎？

Yes. I mean we're not going to project out into the future. But I think certainly, if you look backwards for the last number of years, like we've cut $12 billion or $13 billion of expenses and reinvested a significant amount of that back into the businesses. And so -- so we'll see -- and we'll continue to give a view each year in terms of what it looks like. But as I said, we still feel like we've got opportunity to make the place more efficient. And we'll decide each year how that sort of gets allocated between investments and other stuff.

是的。我的意思是，我們不會去預測未來。但我認為，回顧過去幾年，我們肯定已經削減了 120 億或 130 億美元的開支，並將其中很大一部分重新投資到業務中。所以——所以我們拭目以待——我們將繼續每年就其發展前景發表看法。但正如我所說，我們仍然覺得有機會讓這個地方更有效率。每年我們都會決定如何將這筆錢分配到投資和其他方面。

Saul Martinez, HSBC.

索爾·馬丁內斯，匯豐銀行。

I just wanted to maybe follow up on the Auto business. It's obviously not a big part of your total loan book, but the delta on growth has changed a lot -- and it is -- it's no longer declining as much as it was and that's helped the overall loan growth trajectory. But curious what your views are from here.

我只是想了解一下汽車業務的情況。顯然，這筆貸款在你的貸款總額中所佔比例不大，但成長幅度已經發生了很大變化——而且確實如此——它不再像以前那樣大幅下降，這有助於整體貸款成長軌跡。但我很好奇你們的看法是什麼。

My sense is that this business has become more rational in terms of the competitive landscape. But you also mentioned in the prepared remarks that the results were impacted by loan spread compression and obviously, you have tariffs in the background. So just if you can give us an update on what you're thinking for this business, what the outlook is, how you're strategically positioned. And yeah, just any color.

我的感覺是，就競爭格局而言，這個產業變得更理性了。但您在事先準備好的發言稿中也提到，貸款利差收窄對結果產生了影響，而且顯然，還有關稅因素在起作用。所以，如果您能向我們介紹一下您對這項業務的看法、前景以及您的策略定位，那就太好了。是的，任何顏色都可以。

Sure, it's Mike. I'll try to answer that. So again, just maybe I'll start with the last piece on the loan spread compression. What I said in my remarks was that really, the bulk of that is driven by the fact that the book has migrated to higher FICO clients over time as we've done a bunch of credit tightening three years ago. And I think that served us quite well over the last couple of years, and you can see the credit performance coming through.

沒錯，是麥克。我會試著回答這個問題。所以，或許我應該先從貸款利差壓縮的最後一部分開始講起。我在演講中提到，這主要是因為隨著三年前我們實施了一系列信貸緊縮措施，貸款客戶逐漸轉向了信用評分較高的客戶群。我認為這在過去幾年對我們非常有效，你可以看到信貸表現也證明了這一點。

And over the -- but what we've been really focused on now for the better part of a couple of years is two things. One, finding opportunities like the Volkswagen relationship, that Charlie referenced before, which is, again, a great way to sort of improve not only the growth, but the return of that business over time.

而且，在過去的兩年裡，我們真正關注的是兩件事。第一，尋找像查理之前提到的與大眾汽車的合作關係這樣的機會，這再次證明，這不僅能促進業務成長，還能隨著時間的推移提高業務回報。

And then to some degree, becoming a more full spectrum lender there, as we've built out other capabilities to do that in a very methodical, rational way. And so it will always likely be a relatively small part of the balance sheet, but I do think that you should, over time, see that trough in terms of the balances start to grow some and see better returns over time.

然後在某種程度上，我們成為了一家更全面的貸款機構，因為我們已經以非常系統化、理性的方式建立了其他能力來做到這一點。因此，它可能始終是資產負債表中相對較小的一部分，但我認為，隨著時間的推移，你應該會看到資產負債表的低谷開始增長，並隨著時間的推移看到更好的回報。

Our focus there is not growth at any cost, right? And we've talked about this over the last couple of years, too. Like we're going to continue to focus on generating solid returns as we sort of grow that business. And so if things get a little irrational at times, we'll pull back and focus in the right places. But I do think you'll start to see over time that -- those balances to trough grow a little bit and hopefully at better returns.

我們在那裡的重點不是不惜一切代價實現成長，對嗎？過去幾年我們也一直在討論這個問題。我們將繼續專注於創造穩健的回報，同時不斷發展這項業務。所以，如果事情有時變得有點不理智，我們會退後一步，把注意力集中在正確的地方。但我認為隨著時間的推移，你會發現——這些餘額會逐漸增加，並有望獲得更好的回報。

Okay. Great. And then maybe a follow-up on the markets business, is obviously -- you're building those out. The equities piece was flat year-on-year. I know it's a small business at this point.

好的。偉大的。然後，或許可以跟進一下市場業務，顯然——你們正在逐步完善這些業務。股票部分與去年同期持平。我知道它目前還是一家小企業。

But some of your competitors who reported this morning had reported very big increases year-on-year. Obviously, you've had a lot of engagement and volatility. Just curious if -- and I forget if last year, the base was very strong or there was a base effect. But just any color on what drove this. Is it a disappointing result?And just what -- is there anything in terms of your ability to use balance sheet that is really impairing you from growing in this business? Just any color would be helpful.

但今天早上公佈業績的某些競爭對手的業績顯示，年增幅非常大。顯然，你們經歷了很多互動和波動。我只是好奇——我忘了​​去年基礎是否非常牢固，或者是否存在基礎效應。但究竟是什麼原因導致了這一切，我們只能給出不同的看法。這個結果令人失望嗎？究竟是什麼——您在運用資產負債表方面是否存在任何真正阻礙您在這項業務中發展的因素？任何顏色都可以。

Well, first, the businesses just aren't comparable, right? So if you look at some of the -- another peer or two sort of reported today, the equity businesses are just different, right? And one, they're more global, we're not. Their prime business is massive. We're not. And so those are a couple of the big differences. And you get very different outcomes depending on the environment you're in.

首先，這些企業根本沒有可比性，對吧？所以，如果你看看今天報道的其他一兩家同行，你會發現股權業務的情況截然不同，對吧？第一，他們更俱全球視野，而我們則不然。他們的主要業務規模龐大。我們不是這樣。以上就是幾個主要差異。根據你所處的環境不同，你會得到截然不同的結果。

We're actually very happy with the way the team has been managing the markets business overall, and we've seen this consistent sort of performance now for a while. I'd say some of the equity finance business that is resident within Prime is impacted by the asset cap. We don't have the same flexibility to grow that, and that's part of what we've been talking about for a while in terms of the opportunity in a post asset cap world. But -- so I just think you got to look through a little bit of the differences in the business at this point.

我們對團隊在市場業務方面的整體管理方式感到非常滿意，而且我們已經看到這種持續穩定的業績表現一段時間了。我認為Prime旗下的一些股權融資業務會受到資產上限的影響。我們沒有同樣的彈性來發展壯大，而這正是我們在後資產上限時代所面臨的機會的一部分。但是——所以我認為，在這一點上，你必須稍微了解一下這個行業中的一些差異。

And I just want to pile on this for a second, just to do a shout out to our markets team run by Dan Thompson, Mike Riley. I mean these guys have done an amazing job building both our fixed income and our equity business without the luxury of balance sheet. In fact, it's been the opposite. They've gone out of their way to help the rest of the company by giving up balance sheet.

我還要補充一點，特別感謝由 Dan Thompson 和 Mike Riley 領導的市場團隊。我的意思是，這些人沒有雄厚的資產負債表，卻出色地建立了我們的固定收益和股票業務。事實上，情況恰恰相反。他們不遺餘力地幫助公司其他部門，甚至放棄了資產負債表。

And our businesses, albeit from smaller levels are -- they're stronger. We're spending money on technology. We're taking share. We're building out broader corporate and institutional relationships. And so the gains that we've seen and the performance we've seen in terms of our trading revenues are being built the right way without being based on taking additional risk, it's building additional customer activity and technology.

雖然我們的企業規模較小，但它們卻更強大。我們在科技領域投入資金。我們正在搶佔市場份額。我們正在拓展更廣泛的企業和機構關係。因此，我們在交易收入方面所取得的收益和業績，都是以正確的方式實現的，而不是基於承擔額外的風險，而是透過增加客戶活動和技術來實現的。

Erika Najarian, UBS.

瑞銀集團的 Erika Najarian。

I know we've run long, so I just had one follow-up question. Mike, just going back to Steve's question, I think in -- on the previous call, you talked about a net interest income trajectory that was flattish in the first half of the year and then sort of ramps in the second half. I'm wondering, number one, if that's still your expectation? And perhaps help us frame maybe the impact of the swing in trading NII to this quarter's NII print and additionally, what impact should be securities repositioning have on your margin as we think about a go-forward basis?

我知道時間已經很長了，所以我只有一個後續問題。麥克，回到史蒂夫的問題，我想在——在上一次電話會議上，你談到了淨利息收入軌跡在今年上半年比較平穩，然後在下半年逐漸上升。首先，我想知道這是否仍然是你的預期？或許您能幫助我們分析一下交易淨利息收入波動對本季淨利息收入的影響，以及證券重新配置對未來收益的影響嗎？

Yes. Well, the incremental reposition we did is relatively mall. So -- and the pickup is pretty similar to what we -- in terms of yield that we quantified for the stuff we did late last year. So pretty -- probably pretty easy model, but pretty small overall.

是的。我們所做的增量調整幅度相對較小。所以——而且就產量而言，這個成長與我們——去年底我們量化的結果非常相似。真漂亮——模型可能比較簡單，但整體尺寸比較小。

I'd just interrupt for a second. Just like we don't make those decisions because of guidance. We make those decisions based upon what we think is smart economically to do in the investment portfolio relative to where rates are.

我只想打斷一下。就像我們做這些決定並不是因為得到了指導。我們根據當前利率水平，在投資組合中做出我們認為在經濟上明智的決定，從而做出這些決定。

Yeah, for sure. The -- and look, the expectation is still pretty similar to what we talked about, right? It hasn't changed much. So kind of flattish with more loan growth in the second half of the year, then obviously, rates and the other factors will sort of drive the ultimate outcome. And then we haven't really provided a lot of detail on trading NII, Eric.

是的，當然。而且──你看，預期結果還是和我們之前討論的非常相似，對吧？變化不大。所以整體上比較平穩，下半年貸款成長會更多，那麼利率和其他因素顯然將決定最終結果。而且，我們還沒有真正提供太多關於交易淨利息收入的細節，艾瑞克。

And I think given how volatile rates are right now, that would probably be a little bit of a mistake for us to do just given moves around quite a bit. And just keep in mind that whatever trading NII is either up or down, there's likely an offset in fee revenue. So a lot of it is revenue neutral.

鑑於目前利率波動較大，我認為如果我們這樣做可能會有點錯誤，因為利率波動幅度相當大。請記住，無論交易淨利息收入是上升還是下降，手續費收入都可能相應抵消。所以很多措施對收入沒有影響。

Got it. And Charlie, I hear your message loud and clear. I just wanted to flag that. I'm sure that the investor base will look through some of these questions on NII given everything that you guys laid out on your recurring trajectory going forward.

知道了。查理，你的話我聽得很清楚。我只是想提一下這一點。鑑於你們已經闡述了未來持續發展的發展軌跡，我相信投資人會仔細閱讀 NII 上的這些問題。

Yeah, I totally understand, Erika.

是的，我完全明白，艾莉卡。

Gerard Cassidy, RBC Capital Markets.

Gerard Cassidy，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Charlie, you said in your prepared remarks how you're going to be reducing the reliance on net interest income. Can you remind us, and I'm not suggesting or asking when you think the asset cap is going to be released. But when that happens, what's the optimal mix that you think you guys can get to between net interest income and noninterest income or fee revenues? And then what's the main driver of that fee revenue line?

查理，你在事先準備好的演講稿中提到，你將如何減少對淨利息收入的依賴。你能提醒我們一下嗎？我並不是暗示或詢問你認為資產上限何時會解除。但當這種情況發生時，你們認為淨利息收入和非利息收入或手續費收入之間可以達到的最佳組合是什麼？那麼，這項費用收入的主要驅動因素是什麼？

Yeah. I mean we've not gone there yet to say exactly where we think each have to get to because to the point until the asset cap is lifted, it's -- we really don't want to be talking about what the implication of that can be other than in general terms, which we've tried to do. But listen, when we think about the things that we're doing in building the fee-oriented businesses, it's the things that we're doing. I referred to these earlier. It's -- it's what we're doing in the card business. It's what's happening in the wealth business.

是的。我的意思是，我們還沒有具體說明我們認為每個人應該達到什麼目標，因為在資產上限取消之前，我們真的不想討論這會帶來什麼影響，除了泛泛而談之外，而我們也一直在努力做到這一點。但是聽著，當我們思考我們在建立收費型業務時所做的事情時，那就是我們正在做的事情。我之前提到過這些。這就是——這就是我們在信用卡行業所做的事情。這就是財富管理產業正在發生的事情。

It's the -- our advisory, our underwriting businesses, both through larger companies as well as middle market companies and our payments-related businesses. And those are smart things to do strategically regardless of whether we have the asset cap or not and make us a more attractive provider of services for our customers. And so that's the reason to do it predominantly.

這是我們的諮詢業務、核保業務（包括大型公司和中型市場公司）以及支付相關業務。無論我們是否有資產上限，這些都是明智的策略舉措，可以使我們成為對客戶更具吸引力的服務提供者。所以，這就是主要這樣做的原因。

It builds a more diverse and hopefully more valuable revenue stream for the company. And -- but ultimately, I think your point is right, we'll have the continued opportunity to both -- to grow -- to grow both fee businesses as well as NII with more degrees of latitude on NII without an asset cap.

它為公司建構了一個更多元化、也更有可能創造更大價值的收入來源。而且——但最終，我認為你的觀點是對的，我們將繼續有機會發展——發展費用業務和淨利息收入，並且在淨利息收入方面有更大的靈活性，而沒有資產上限。

Very good. And then, Mike, I know you touched on credit quality throughout the call. And in terms of your focus going forward on the C&I loan portfolio, are there specific categories within the C&I loan portfolio that you guys are ensuring that you're checking maybe more rigorously today than 12 months ago, just as a potential weakness could develop in a slower economy.

非常好。還有，麥克，我知道你在整個通話過程中都談到了信用品質問題。至於您未來對工商業貸款組合的關注重點，在工商業貸款組合中，是否有某些特定類別，您現在比 12 個月前更加嚴格地進行檢查，因為在經濟放緩的情況下，可能會出現潛在的弱點。

We're looking at the whole portfolio, Gerard, as we always do. And it's something we've got a really long-standing great credit discipline across the company. And -- it's something I think the team does really well, and it's a focus for all of us. And it's -- you can't like pick and choose, you got to really look at the whole thing.

杰拉德，我們一如既往地對整個投資組合進行審視。而且，我們公司一直以來都保持著非常良好的信貸紀律。而且──我認為這是團隊做得非常好的一點，也是我們所有人關注的重點。而且──你不能挑挑揀揀，你必須真正地從整體上看待問題。

All right. Thanks, everyone. We appreciate the call. Take care.

好的。謝謝大家。感謝您的來電。小心。

Thank you.

謝謝。