富國銀行 (WFC) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

(audio in progress) (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's call is being recorded.

（音訊進行中）（操作員指示）請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to John Campbell, Director of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin the conference.

現在我將把電話交給投資者關係總監約翰·坎貝爾。先生，您可以開始會議了。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our call today where our CEO, Charlie Scharf; and our CFO, Mike Santomassimo, will discuss fourth quarter results and answer your questions. This call is being recorded.

各位早安。感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議，我們的執行長 Charlie Scharf 和財務長 Mike Santomassimo 將討論第四季度業績並回答您的問題。本次通話正在錄音。

Before we get started, I would like to remind you that our fourth quarter earnings materials, including the release, financial supplement and presentation deck are available on our website at wellsfargo.com. I'd also like to caution you that we may make forward-looking statements during today's call that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are detailed in our SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed today containing our earnings materials. Information about any non-GAAP financial measures referenced, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures, can be found in our SEC filings and the earnings materials available on our website.

在正式開始之前，我想提醒各位，我們第四季度的收益報告資料，包括新聞稿、財務補充文件和演示文稿，都可以在我們的網站 wellsfargo.com 上找到。同時，我也想提醒各位，我們在今天的電話會議中可能會做出一些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在風險和不確定性。可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異的因素已在我們的美國證券交易委員會文件中詳細說明，包括今天提交的包含我們收益材料的 8-K 表格。有關文中提及的任何非GAAP財務指標的信息，包括這些指標與GAAP指標的調節表，可以在我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件和我們網站上提供的收益資料中找到。

I will now turn the call over to Charlie.

現在我將把通話轉給查理。

Thanks, John. I'm going to provide an overview of our 2025 results and update you on our priorities. I'll then turn the call over to Mike to review fourth quarter results as well as our net interest income and expense expectations for 2026 before we take your questions.

謝謝你，約翰。我將概述我們 2025 年的成果，並向大家介紹我們的工作重點。接下來，我將把電話交給 Mike，讓他回顧第四季度業績以及我們對 2026 年淨利息收入和支出的預期，然後再回答大家的問題。

Let me start with our 2025 highlights. Our strong financial results reflected the significant momentum we're building across the company. Our net income increased to $21.3 billion and our diluted earnings per share grew 17% from a year ago. Our continued investments in our business helped drive revenue growth with fee-based revenue up 5% from a year ago. This growth was broad-based with increases in both our consumer and commercial businesses.

讓我先從我們2025年的展望開始。我們強勁的財務表現反映了公司各部門正在形成的巨大發展勢頭。我們的淨收入成長至 213 億美元，稀釋後每股收益比上年同期成長 17%。我們對業務的持續投資推動了營收成長，其中收費收入比去年同期成長了 5%。這一增長是全面性的，我們的消費者業務和商業業務均有所增長。

Much of the investments we have been making have been funded by our disciplined approach to managing expenses. We had positive operating leverage in 2025, and we continue to have opportunities to generate efficiencies. Our ongoing focus has resulted in 22 consecutive quarters of headcount reductions, with headcount down over 25% since second quarter 2020.

我們大部分的投資都得益於我們嚴格的費用管理方式。我們在 2025 年實現了正向經營槓桿，並且我們仍然有機會提高效率。我們持續的專注已導致連續 22 個季度減少員工人數，自 2020 年第二季以來，員工人數減少了 25% 以上。

Since the lifting of the asset cap, we've been growing our balance sheet, and our assets grew 11% from a year ago including broad-based loan growth and higher trading assets to help support our markets businesses. We also grew deposits with higher balances in both our commercial and consumer businesses. Credit performance was strong and net charge-offs declined 16% from a year ago. The economy and our customers remain resilient, but we continue to closely monitor our portfolios for signs of weakness.

自從取消資產上限以來，我們的資產負債表一直在成長，資產較上年增長了 11%，其中包括廣泛的貸款成長和更高的交易資產，以幫助支持我們的市場業務。我們在商業和消費業務中的存款餘額也均有所增長。信貸表現強勁，淨沖銷額較上年同期下降 16%。經濟和我們的客戶仍然保持韌性，但我們會繼續密切關注我們的投資組合，以發現疲軟跡象。

In addition to tracking credit metrics in our loan portfolios, such as early-stage delinquencies, we also monitor consumer behavior more broadly to help us understand consumer health. For example, we look at things like checking accounts with unemployment flows, direct deposit amounts, overdraft activity and payment outflows and we've not observed meaningful shifts in trends. Our capital levels remain strong, while returning $23 billion of excess capital to shareholders. During 2025, we increased our common stock dividend per share by 13% and repurchased $18 billion of common stock. Given we have many opportunities to grow organically, we currently expect share repurchases to be lower in 2026. We will continue to focus on optimizing our capital levels as we manage to a CET1 ratio of approximately 10% to 10.5%.

除了追蹤貸款組合中的信用指標（例如早期違約）外，我們還更廣泛地監控消費者行為，以幫助我們了解消費者的健康狀況。例如，我們查看了失業救濟金流動、直接存款金額、透支活動和支付支出等支票帳戶，但沒有觀察到趨勢的顯著變化。我們的資本水準依然強勁，同時向股東返還了 230 億美元的超額資本。2025年，我們將普通股每股股利提高了13%，並回購了180億美元的普通股。鑑於我們有許多有機成長的機會，我們目前預計 2026 年的股票回購規模將會降低。我們將繼續專注於優化資本水平，力爭將一級資本充足率控制在 10% 至 10.5% 左右。

Let me turn to the progress we've made throughout the past year on our strategic priorities. The removal of the asset cap by Federal Reserve was a pivotal moment for the company. This milestone combined with successfully closing 13 regulatory orders since 2019 underscores the significant progress we've made in transforming the organization. We are incredibly proud of our success and understand the importance of continuing to build on that work and sustain the culture that supports it. While executing on our risk and control initiatives, we simultaneously worked to position the company for stronger growth and improved returns.

接下來，我想談談過去一年我們在策略重點上的進展。聯準會取消資產上限對該公司來說是一個轉捩點。這一里程碑事件，加上自 2019 年以來成功完成的 13 項監管命令，凸顯了我們在組織轉型方面的重大進展。我們為所取得的成就感到無比自豪，並深知繼續鞏固這些成果和維持支撐這些成果的文化的重要性。在執行風險和控制措施的同時，我們也致力於使公司實現更強勁的成長和更高的回報。

Let me walk you through how these actions are improving our business drivers, beginning with our consumer business. We have been investing in our credit card business since I joined Wells Fargo and our focus has been driving strong outcomes. We opened nearly 3 million new credit card accounts in 2025, up 21% from a year ago. Credit card balances were up 6% from a year ago. And importantly, we've maintained our credit standards. After two to three years of absorbing the upfront costs of our new products, we are beginning to see the early vintages contributing to profitability.

讓我帶您了解這些舉措是如何改善我們的業務驅動因素的，首先從我們的消費者業務說起。自從我加入富國銀行以來，我們一直在投資信用卡業務，並且我們的重點是取得良好的業績。2025年，我們新增了近300萬個信用卡帳戶，比上年成長21%。信用卡餘額比一年前增加了 6%。更重要的是，我們維持了信貸標準。在經歷了兩到三年的新產品前期成本消化之後，我們開始看到早期產品為盈利做出貢獻。

Our auto business returned to growth in 2025 with stronger origination volumes and 19% growth in loan balances from a year ago. Our results reflected growth across our portfolio including benefiting and becoming the preferred financing provider for Volkswagen and Audi brands in the United States in the spring of last year. The auto business goes through cycles, and we have intentionally scaled back growth in recent years. With the investments we have made to improve our capabilities, we are now well positioned to methodically return to broad spectrum lending. Importantly, we're focused on making sure we have the right level of profitability in this business not just growth.

2025年，我們的汽車業務恢復成長，貸款發放量增加，貸款餘額比上年增加19%。我們的業績反映了我們投資組合的整體成長，包括去年春季成為美國大眾和奧迪品牌的首選融資提供者。汽車產業的發展是有周期的，近年來我們有意縮減了成長規模。透過我們為提升自身能力所做的投資，我們現在已做好充分準備，有條不紊地恢復廣泛的貸款業務。重要的是，我們關注的是確保這項業務達到合適的獲利水平，而不僅僅是成長。

We have made good progress in transforming and simplifying the Home Lending business. Over the past three years, we've reduced headcount by over 50% and the amount of third-party mortgage loans serviced by over 40%, including reducing the servicing portfolio by $90 billion in 2025 alone. We are continuing to reduce the size of this business while focusing on serving our bank and wealth management customers, which will help improve profitability. Within consumer, small and business banking, we had stronger growth in net checking accounts in 2025 than last year driven by digital account openings and an increase in marketing.

我們在改造和簡化房屋貸款業務方面取得了良好進展。過去三年，我們減少了 50% 以上的員工人數，減少了 40% 以上的第三方抵押貸款服務量，僅在 2025 年就減少了 900 億美元的服務組合。我們將繼續縮減這項業務的規模，同時專注於服務我們的銀行和財富管理客戶，這將有助於提高獲利能力。在消費者、小型企業和商業銀行業務方面，受數位帳戶開立和行銷力度加大的推動，2025 年淨支票帳戶數量較去年實現了更強勁的增長。

We continue to refurbish our branches, completing approximately 700 branches in 2025. Over half of our network is now refurbished and we are on track to complete the remaining branches over the next few years. We continue to make enhancements to our mobile app, including making it significantly easier to open accounts. And in 2025, 50% of our consumer checking accounts were opened digitally. We grew mobile active customers by 1.4 million in 2025, up 4% from a year ago.

我們將繼續翻新分行，預計到 2025 年將完成約 700 家分行的翻新。目前我們超過一半的網路已經完成翻新，我們預計在未來幾年內完成剩餘分公司的翻新工作。我們持續改進行動應用程序，包括大幅簡化開戶流程。到 2025 年，我們 50% 的消費者支票帳戶將以數位方式開立。到 2025 年，我們的行動活躍用戶將增加 140 萬，比上年增長 4%。

Wells Premier our offering to serve our affluent clients, continue to build momentum in 2025. We increased the number of licensed bankers and grew branch-based financial advisers by 12% from a year ago, with a focus on increasing the number of bankers and advisers in the locations where we have the most opportunities. Premier deposit and investment balances grew 14% during 2025. This remains a significant area of opportunity for us. We also had continued momentum in our Wealth and Investment Management business with total hires increasing, attrition declining and net asset flows accelerating in the second half of 2025.

Wells Premier 將繼續為我們的富裕客戶提供服務，並在 2025 年保持強勁的發展勢頭。我們增加了持牌銀行家的數量，並將分行的財務顧問數量比一年前增加了 12%，重點是在我們機會最多的地區增加銀行家和顧問的數量。2025年，Premier存款和投資餘額增加了14%。這仍然是我們一個重要的機會領域。2025 年下半年，我們的財富和投資管理業務也維持了持續成長勢頭，員工總數增加，人員流失率下降，淨資產流入加速。

Turning to our commercial businesses. In the Commercial Bank, while we are the market leader with strong returns, we still have plenty of opportunities for growth. We have hired 185 coverage bankers over the last two years with over 60% of the bankers hired in 2025. We are starting to see early signs of success from these hires with higher new client acquisition as well as loan and deposit growth. We also continue to be focused on providing investment banking and markets capabilities with fees from providing these capabilities to our commercial banking clients growing over 25% in 2025.

接下來談談我們的商業業務。在商業銀行領域，雖然我們是市場領導者，擁有強勁的回報，但我們仍然有很多成長機會。過去兩年，我們聘請了 185 位客戶經理，其中超過 60% 的客戶經理將於 2025 年入職。我們已經開始看到這些新員工帶來的初步成功跡象，包括更高的新客戶獲取量以及貸款和存款成長。我們將繼續專注於提供投資銀行和市場服務能力，預計到 2025 年，我們向商業銀行客戶提供這些服務所收取的費用將成長超過 25%。

Overland Advantage, our strategic partnership with Centerbridge Partners has enabled us to better serve our Commercial Banking customers with a direct lending product and since inception, we have helped our clients raise approximately $7 billion in financing. As I highlighted on our last call, our goal is to be a top 5 US investment bank. We grew our share in 2025, and we're confident that we can continue to make progress over time by using our competitive advantages including our long and deep relationships with large corporate and middle market companies, a complete product set, significant existing credit exposure, strong risk discipline and the capacity to support our clients through cycles.

Overland Advantage 是我們與 Centerbridge Partners 的策略合作夥伴關係，使我們能夠透過直接貸款產品更好地服務我們的商業銀行客戶。自成立以來，我們已幫助客戶籌集了約 70 億美元的融資。正如我在上次電話會議中所強調的那樣，我們的目標是成為美國排名前五名的投資銀行。我們在 2025 年擴大了市場份額，我們有信心利用我們的競爭優勢，包括與大型企業和中型市場公司建立長期而深入的關係、完整的產品組合、大量的現有信貸敞口、強大的風險控制以及在周期中支持客戶的能力，隨著時間的推移，我們能夠繼續取得進步。

In M&A, we're winning increasingly bigger and more complex assignments. We advised on two of the largest M&A deals of 2025 increasing our announced US M&A ranking to 8th in 2025, up from 12 in 2024. We entered 2026 with our deal pipeline meaningfully greater than it has been at any point in the last five years, although market conditions can always change. And with the lifting of the asset cap, we've been able to utilize our balance sheet to accelerate growth in our trading businesses, including increasing trading-related assets by 50% in 2025 to accommodate customer trading flows and financing activities.

在併購領域，我們贏得了越來越多規模更大、更複雜的專案。我們為 2025 年兩筆最大的併購交易提供了諮詢服務，使我們公佈的美國併購排名從 2024 年的第 12 位上升到 2025 年的第 8 位。進入 2026 年，我們的交易儲備比過去五年中的任何時候都要多得多，儘管市場狀況總是會發生變化。隨著資產上限的取消，我們得以利用資產負債表加速交易業務的成長，包括在 2025 年將交易相關資產增加 50%，以滿足客戶交易流量和融資活動的需求。

While many of the assets have been added recently are lower margin, they also have lower risk and are less capital intensive. Our ability to support this client activity increases engagement and should lead to more business.

雖然近期新增的許多資產利潤率較低，但它們的風險也較低，資本密集度也較低。我們支持客戶這項活動的能力可以提高客戶參與度，並應能帶來更多業務。

In summary, our strong performance in 2025 reflects the meaningful progress we've made to transform Wells Fargo and our actions position us for continued higher growth and returns. Our ROTCE increased to 15% in 2025. To put this in perspective, when we first started talking about increasing our returns in the fourth quarter of 2020, our ROTCE was 8% and we set a goal of reaching 10%. Once we established that goal, we raised our target to 15%. As we discussed on last quarter's call, we have a new medium-term ROTCE target of 17% to 18%.

總而言之，我們在 2025 年的強勁表現反映了我們在改造富國銀行方面取得的實質進展，我們的行動使我們能夠持續獲得更高的成長和回報。到 2025 年，我們的 ROTCE 將成長至 15%。為了讓大家更理解這一點，我們回顧一下，2020 年第四季我們首次開始討論提高回報率時，我們的 ROTCE 為 8%，我們設定了達到 10% 的目標。確定目標後，我們將目標提高到 15%。正如我們在上個季度電話會議上討論的那樣，我們新的中期 ROTCE 目標為 17% 至 18%。

While both the path and the timing to achieve our target is dependent on a variety of factors, including interest rates, the broader macroeconomic environment and the regulatory environment, we are confident that we can reach this goal by maintaining our expense discipline, realizing the benefits of our investments to drive stronger revenue growth and further optimizing our capital levels.

儘管實現目標的路徑和時間取決於多種因素，包括利率、更廣泛的宏觀經濟環境和監管環境，但我們相信，透過維持成本控制、實現投資收益以推動更強勁的收入成長以及進一步優化資本水平，我們能夠實現這一目標。

As a reminder, 17% to 18% is not our final goal, but another stop along the way to achieving best-in-class returns by business and ultimately, our returns should be higher than this target. I want to end by thanking everyone who works at Wells Fargo for their hard work and dedication last year. Their unwavering commitment to our customers and to our transformation is what positions us to become a best-in-class company. I'm excited about our momentum and look forward to building on our success as we enter the new year from a position of strength.

再次提醒大家，17% 到 18% 並不是我們的最終目標，而是實現業務一流回報的另一個階段，最終，我們的回報應該高於這個目標。最後，我要感謝富國銀行所有員工去年的辛勤工作和奉獻精神。他們對客戶和公司轉型堅定不移的承諾，使我們有能力成為一流公司。我對我們目前的發展勢頭感到興奮，並期待在新的一年裡，以更強大的姿態繼續取得成功。

I will now turn the call over to Mike.

現在我將把通話轉給麥克。

Thanks, Charlie, and good morning, everyone. We earned $5.4 billion in the fourth quarter, up from 6% from a year ago. Diluted earnings per common share was $1.62, up 13% year-over-year, and excluding the severance expense, our diluted earnings per share was $1.76. Fourth quarter included $612 million of severance expense, primarily for actions we will take throughout 2026. We also had severance expense in the third quarter for a total of $908 million in the second half of 2025. As Charlie highlighted, we have reduced headcount every quarter since the third quarter of 2020 and we continue to have opportunities to further streamline the company and become more efficient.

謝謝你，查理，大家早安。第四季我們獲利54億美元，比去年同期成長6%。稀釋後每股普通股收益為 1.62 美元，年增 13%；若不計遣散費，稀釋後每股收益為 1.76 美元。第四季包含 6.12 億美元的遣散費，主要用於我們將在 2026 年全年採取的行動。第三季我們也產生了遣散費支出，預計到 2025 年下半年將達到 9.08 億美元。正如查理所強調的，自 2020 年第三季以來，我們每季都減少了員工人數，而且我們仍然有機會進一步精簡公司，提高效率。

Turning to slide 4. Net interest income increased $381 million or 3% from the third quarter driven by higher market NII. Net interest income, excluding markets, increased $167 million from higher loan and deposit balances as well as fixed asset repricing partially offset by changes in deposit mix. I will update you on our expectations for 2026 net interest income later in the call.

翻到第4張投影片。受市場淨利息收入成長的推動，淨利息收入較第三季增加 3.81 億美元，增幅為 3%。不包括市場因素，淨利息收入增加了 1.67 億美元，這主要得益於貸款和存款餘額的增加以及固定資產重新定價，但部分被存款結構的變化所抵消。稍後在電話會議中，我會向您介紹我們對 2026 年淨利息收入的預期。

Moving to slide 5. We had strong loan growth with both average and period-end loans increasing from the third quarter and from a year ago. Period-end loans grew 5% in the third quarter, the strongest linked quarter growth since the first quarter of 2020 when we had COVID-related growth. Average loans increased $49.4 billion or 5% from a year ago, driven by growth in commercial and industrial loans, in corporate investment banking as well as growth in commercial banking.

切換到第5張投影片。我們的貸款成長強勁，平均貸款額和期末貸款額均較第三季和去年同期有所成長。第三季末貸款成長 5%，這是自 2020 年第一季受新冠疫情影響而實現的最強勁的季度環比增長。受商業和工業貸款、企業投資銀行以及商業銀行業務成長的推動，平均貸款額比去年同期增加了 494 億美元，增幅為 5%。

As you can see on this slide, one of the industry categories driving commercial loan growth has been financials except banks. While it is often referred to as one category, it's actually fairly broad. In our 10-Q's and K, we have traditionally broken down these loans in four types: lending to asset managers, commercial finance, consumer finance and real estate finance.

正如你在這張投影片上看到的，推動商業貸款成長的行業類別之一是銀行以外的金融業。雖然它通常被歸為一類，但實際上它的範圍相當廣泛。在我們的 10-Q 和 K 表格中，我們傳統上將這些貸款分為四類：資產管理公司貸款、商業融資、消費融資和房地產融資。

Let me walk through each of these categories briefly to give you a better understanding of what they include. Asset managers and funds, the biggest piece of this category as well as the driver of most of the growth is from our fund finance group, which is largely subscription or capital call facilities for alternative asset managers, targeting larger funds with strong investment track records where we have long-standing strategic relationships and that are generally backed by a diversified pool of limited partner commitments to the fund.

讓我簡要地逐一介紹這些類別，以便您更好地了解它們包含的內容。資產管理公司和基金，這一類別中佔比最大且成長最快的部分來自我們的基金融資集團，該集團主要為另類資產管理公司提供認購或資本募集服務，目標是投資業績記錄良好的大型基金，我們與這些基金建立了長期的策略合作關係，並且這些基金通常由多元化的有限合夥人承諾提供支持。

Within commercial finance, the biggest piece is our corporate debt finance business, which is secured lending to asset managers and private equity funds that is typically backed by middle market and broadly syndicated loans. We underwrite, approve and monitor the performance of each underlying loan. Consumer finance, the smallest category lends to clients engaged in auto lending, credit card issuers and other types of consumer lending. Finally, the real estate finance portfolio includes both secured lending to mortgage REITs and private equity funds that originate or purchase commercial real estate mortgage loans and secured lending to asset managers and specialty finance companies backed by agency residential mortgage loans and residential mortgage-backed securities.

在商業金融領域，最大的部分是我們的企業債務融資業務，即向資產管理公司和私募股權基金提供擔保貸款，通常以中端市場和廣泛的銀團貸款為支撐。我們對每筆貸款進行承銷、審批和監督。消費金融是規模最小的類別，它向從事汽車貸款、信用卡發行和其他類型消費貸款的客戶提供貸款。最後，房地產金融組合包括向抵押貸款 REIT 和私募股權基金提供擔保貸款（這些基金發起或購買商業房地產抵押貸款），以及向資產管理公司和專業金融公司提供擔保貸款（這些貸款由機構住宅抵押貸款和住宅抵押貸款支持證券支持）。

Since this portfolio has been growing, we are now providing additional detail by category earnings rather than just in our 10-Q filings as we've done in the past. While this type of lending has picked up across the industry recently, we have made these kinds of loans for many years. They are generally secured and have features to help manage credit risk, such as structural credit enhancements and collateral eligibility requirements as well as collateral advance rates that generally get us to the equivalent of investment-grade risk. Given these features and our experience underwriting these loans as well as the collateral that supports them, we have found this type of lending to offer an attractive risk return.

由於該投資組合一直在增長，我們現在按類別收益提供更多詳細信息，而不僅僅像過去那樣只在 10-Q 文件中提供。雖然這類貸款最近在整個行業內有所增加，但我們多年來一直在發放這類貸款。它們通常有擔保，並具有幫助管理信用風險的功能，例如結構性信用增級和抵押品資格要求以及抵押品預付款率，這些通常使我們達到相當於投資等級風險的水平。鑑於這些特點以及我們在承銷此類貸款方面的經驗，以及支持這些貸款的抵押品，我們發現這種類型的貸款提供了有吸引力的風險回報。

Now turning to consumer loans, which also grew from a year ago with growth in auto, securities-based lending and wealth and investment management and credit cards. While residential mortgage loans continued to decline driven by our strategy to primarily focus on our bank and wealth management customers, the rate of decline slowed.

現在就來看看消費貸款，與一年前相比也有所增長，其中汽車貸款、證券抵押貸款、財富和投資管理以及信用卡貸款均有所增長。儘管由於我們主要專注於銀行和財富管理客戶的策略，房屋抵押貸款持續下降，但下降速度放緩。

Turning to deposits on slide 6. Average deposits increased $23.9 billion from a year ago as growth in consumer and commercial deposits more than offset declines in higher-cost corporate treasury deposits. We achieved this growth while reducing average deposit costs by 29 basis points from a year ago, with lower interest-bearing deposit yields across all of our businesses.

接下來，我們來看看投影片 6 的存款狀況。平均存款額較上年同期增加 239 億美元，其中消費者和商業存款的成長超過了成本較高的企業國庫存款的下降。我們在實現這一成長的同時，將平均存款成本比一年前降低了 29 個基點，所有業務的計息存款收益率也隨之降低。

Turning to slide 7. Noninterest income increased $419 million or 5% from a year ago. Our results a year ago included losses from the repositioning of the investment securities portfolio as well as strong results from our venture capital investments. We grew fee-based revenue across most of our business-related fee categories, including 8% growth in investment advisory fees and brokerage commissions our largest category, driven by growth in asset-based fees reflecting higher market valuations and wealth and investment management.

翻到第7張投影片。非利息收入比上年同期增加 4.19 億美元，增幅為 5%。一年前的業績包括投資證券組合重新調整帶來的損失，以及創投帶來的強勁收益。我們在大多數業務相關費用類別中實現了費用收入的增長，其中投資諮詢費和經紀佣金增長了 8%，這是我們最大的類別，這主要得益於資產相關費用的增長，反映了更高的市場估值以及財富和投資管理。

Turning to expenses on slide 8. Noninterest expense declined $174 million from a year ago. Let me highlight the primary drivers. We had lower FDIC assessment expense, lower operating losses, and we benefited from the impact of efficiency initiatives. Partially offsetting these declines was higher revenue-related compensation expense, primarily in Wealth and Investment Management, driven by strong market performance.

接下來請看第 8 頁的費用部分。非利息支出比去年同期減少了1.74億美元。讓我重點介紹一下主要驅動因素。我們的聯邦存款保險公司評估費用較低，營運虧損較低，我們受益於效率提升措施的影響。部分抵銷這些下降的是收入相關的薪資支出增加，主要來自財富和投資管理領域，這主要是由於強勁的市場表現所致。

We also had higher advertising and technology expense driven by the investments we are making in our businesses to generate growth. I would note that while our fourth quarter 2025 expenses included the $612 million of severance expense I highlighted earlier in the call, severance expense was slightly lower than a year ago.

由於我們為促進業務成長而進行的投資，我們的廣告和技術支出也有所增加。需要指出的是，雖然我們 2025 年第四季的支出包括我之前在電話會議中提到的 6.12 億美元的遣散費，但遣散費比一年前略低。

Turning to credit quality on slide 9. Credit performance remained strong. Our net loan charge-off ratio declined 10 basis points from a year ago and increased 3 basis points from the third quarter. Commercial net loan charge-offs increased 4 basis points from the third quarter, driven by higher commercial real estate losses predominantly in the office portfolio. Office valuations continue to stabilize and although we expect additional losses which can be lumpy, they should be well within our expectations.

接下來，我們來看第9頁的信用品質問題。信貸表現依然強勁。我們的淨貸款核銷率較上年同期下降了 10 個基點，較第三季上升了 3 個基點。商業淨貸款核銷額較第三季上升 4 個基點，主要原因是商業房地產損失增加，尤其是辦公大樓投資組合的損失。辦公大樓估值持續趨於穩定，雖然我們預計會有額外的損失，而且這些損失可能會出現波動，但應該會在我們的預期之內。

Consumer net loan charge-offs increased modestly from the third quarter to 75 basis points of average loans with higher losses in credit card and auto. Since there is seasonality in these portfolios, I would note that both credit card and auto losses were lower than a year ago.

消費者淨貸款核銷額較第三季略有上升，達到平均貸款額的 75 個基點，其中信用卡和汽車貸款的損失較高。由於這些投資組合具有季節性，需要指出的是，信用卡和汽車貸款的損失都低於去年同期。

As Charlie highlighted, we closely monitor our portfolio for signs of weakness, and consumers continue to be resilient as income growth has generally kept pace with increases in inflation and debt levels. Our nonperforming asset ratio declined modestly from a year ago and increased 3 basis points from the third quarter, driven by higher commercial real estate and commercial and industrial nonaccrual loans. The drivers of this increase were borrower specific, and we do not see any signs of systemic weakness across the portfolio.

正如查理所強調的，我們會密切關注投資組合的疲軟跡象，而消費者仍然保持韌性，因為收入成長總體上與通貨膨脹和債務水準的成長保持同步。我們的不良資產率較上年同期略有下降，較第三季上升了 3 個基點，主要原因是商業房地產和商業及工業非應計貸款增加。此次成長的驅動因素是藉款人特有的，我們沒有看到投資組合中存在任何系統性疲軟的跡象。

Moving to slide 10. Our allowance for credit losses for loans was relatively stable from the third quarter. Our allowance coverage ratio was down modestly and included a decline in the coverage ratio for our corporate investment banking, commercial real estate office portfolio to 10.1% in the fourth quarter.

切換到第10張投影片。從第三季開始，我們的貸款信貸損失準備金相對穩定。我們的撥備覆蓋率略有下降，其中企業投資銀行、商業房地產辦公投資組合的撥備覆蓋率在第四季下降至 10.1%。

Turning to capital and liquidity on slide 11. Our capital levels remain strong with our CET1 ratio at 10.6%, down from the third quarter but well above our CET1 regulatory minimum plus buffers of 8.5%. We added approximately 45 basis points from earnings, which was more than offset by approximately 40 basis point reduction from common stock repurchases and an approximately 45 basis point decline from risk-weighted asset growth. We repurchased $5 billion of common stock in the fourth quarter. Average common shares outstanding were down 6% from a year ago and have declined 26% over the past six years.

第 11 頁投影片將討論資本和流動性問題。我們的資本水準依然強勁，CET1 比率為 10.6%，雖然比第三季有所下降，但遠高於 CET1 監管最低標準加上 8.5% 的緩衝。我們從盈利中增加了約 45 個基點，但這被普通股回購導致的約 40 個基點的減少以及風險加權資產增長導致的約 45 個基點的下降所抵消。我們在第四季回購了價值 50 億美元的普通股。平均流通普通股數量比一年前下降了 6%，過去六年累計下降了 26%。

Moving to our operating segments, starting with Consumer Banking and Lending on slide 12. Consumer Small and Business Banking revenue increased 9% from a year ago, driven by lower deposit pricing and higher deposit and loan balances. Home lending revenue declined 6% from a year ago due to lower net interest income from lower loan balances. Credit card revenue grew 7% from a year ago from higher loan balances and an increase in card fees. Our new account growth has been strong and approximately 50% of our loan balances are now from the new products we've launched since 2021.

接下來我們來看看我們的營運部門，首先是第 12 頁的消費者銀行和貸款業務。受存款價格下降和存款貸款餘額增加的推動，消費者、小型企業和商業銀行業務收入比去年同期增加了 9%。由於貸款餘額減少導致淨利息收入下降，房屋貸款收入較去年同期下降 6%。信用卡收入較上年同期成長7%，主要原因是貸款餘額增加和信用卡手續費上漲。我們的新帳戶成長強勁，目前約 50% 的貸款餘額來自我們自 2021 年以來推出的新產品。

Auto revenue increased 7% from a year ago due to the higher loan balances with auto originations more than doubling from a year ago. The decline in personal lending revenue from a year ago was driven by lower loan balances and loan spread compression.

由於汽車貸款餘額增加，汽車貸款發放量比去年同期翻了一番以上，汽車行業收入比去年同期增長了 7%。個人貸款收入較上年同期下降的原因是貸款餘額減少和貸款利差收窄。

Turning to Commercial Banking results on slide 13. Revenue was down 3% from a year ago as lower net interest income was partially offset by growth in noninterest income driven by higher revenue from tax credit investments and equity investments. Average loan balances in the fourth quarter grew $4.6 billion or 2% from the third quarter, driven by higher client activity.

請看第 13 頁的商業銀行業績。由於淨利息收入下降，部分被非利息收入成長所抵消，而非利息收入成長則是由稅收抵免投資和股權投資收入增加所推動的，因此收入比去年同期下降了 3%。第四季平均貸款餘額較第三季增加 46 億美元，增幅為 2%，主要得益於客戶活躍度的提高。

Turning to Corporate and Investment Banking on slide 14. Banking revenue declined 4% from a year ago, driven by lower investment banking revenue and the impact of lower interest rates. I would note that while investment banking revenue declined in the fourth quarter, it was up 11% for the full year. Investment banking revenue will vary from quarter-to-quarter based on the timing of when deals close, so looking out over a longer time frame is a more meaningful way to see the momentum we are generating in this business.

請參閱第 14 頁投影片，了解企業和投資銀行業務。受投資銀行業務收入下降和利率下調的影響，銀行業收入較去年同期下降 4%。需要指出的是，雖然投資銀行業務收入在第四季度有所下降，但全年增長了 11%。投資銀行的收入會因交易完成的時間而逐季度波動，因此，從更長的時間跨度來看，更能反映我們在該業務領域所取得的成就。

Commercial real estate revenue was down 3% from a year ago, driven by the impact of lower interest rates, reduced mortgage banking servicing income resulting from the sale of our non-agency third-party servicing business in the first quarter of 2025 as well as lower loan balances. Markets revenue grew 7% from a year ago, driven by higher revenue in equities, higher commodities related revenue from increased market volatility as well as higher revenue in structured products. Average loans grew 14% from a year ago and 6% in the third quarter with growth in markets and banking driven by new originations as utilization rates on existing facilities were relatively stable from the third quarter.

受利率下降、2025 年第一季出售非代理第三方服務業務導致抵押貸款銀行服務收入減少以及貸款餘額下降的影響，商業房地產收入比去年同期下降了 3%。市場收入較上年同期成長 7%，主要得益於股票收入增加、市場波動性加劇帶動大宗商品相關收入增加以及結構性產品收入增加。平均貸款額較上年同期成長 14%，較第三季成長 6%，市場和銀行業務的成長主要得益於新增貸款，而現有貸款的使用率較第三季相對穩定。

On slide 15, Wealth and Investment Management revenue increased 10% from a year ago, driven by growth in asset-based fees from increased market valuations as well as higher net interest income due to lower deposit pricing and growth in deposit and loan balances. Underlying business drivers continue to show momentum in the fourth quarter with growth in loan and deposit balances as well as growth in total client assets, which benefited from the market valuations as well as net asset flows. As a reminder, the majority of WIM advisory assets are priced at the beginning of the quarter, so first quarter results will reflect the higher January 1 market valuations.

第 15 頁顯示，財富和投資管理收入比去年同期增長了 10%，這主要得益於市場估值增加帶來的資產相關費用增長，以及存款定價降低和存款貸款餘額增長帶來的淨利息收入增加。第四季度，基本業務驅動因素繼續保持成長勢頭，貸款和存款餘額以及客戶總資產均實現成長，這得益於市場估值和淨資產流動。提醒大家，WIM 諮詢資產的大部分定價都在季度初，因此第一季的業績將反映出 1 月 1 日較高的市場估值。

Turning to our 2026 outlook on slide 17, we provide our expectations for net interest income. We reported $47.5 billion of net interest income in 2025, and we currently expect total net interest income to be $50 billion, plus or minus, in 2026. Additionally, for the first time, we are providing our net interest income expectations for our markets business. We also enhanced our disclosures related to this activity in our financial supplement by providing more details on trading assets and liabilities on pages 6 and 7 and including disclosures in the Corporate & Investment Banking segment on pages 14 and 15 as well as providing net interest income, excluding markets on page 27. We believe these disclosures will provide additional transparency and insight.

在第 17 頁，我們展望 2026 年，並給予我們對淨利息收入的預期。我們報告稱，2025 年淨利息收入為 475 億美元，目前預計 2026 年淨利息收入總額為 500 億美元左右。此外，我們首次公佈了市場業務的淨利息收入預期。我們還加強了財務補充文件中與此活動相關的披露，在第 6 頁和第 7 頁提供了有關交易資產和負債的更多詳細信息，在第 14 頁和第 15 頁提供了企業及投資銀行部門的披露信息，並在第 27 頁提供了不包括市場交易的淨利息收入。我們相信這些資訊揭露將提供更高的透明度和更深入的見解。

As you know, we've been investing in the markets business and while it is still a relatively small contributor to our total net interest income, its contribution has grown and it can cause volatility in our NII outlook given changes in interest rates and other market factors. We currently expect markets NII to grow to approximately $2 billion in 2026 driven by lower short-term funding costs and balance sheet growth, including increased client financing activities, which as Charlie highlighted, tend to be lower margin and lower risk assets but are accretive to net interest income. As a reminder, while markets NII is expected to be higher, this growth is expected to be partially offset by lower noninterest income. Our focus is on growing markets revenue, which we expect to increase in 2026.

如您所知，我們一直在投資市場業務，雖然它對我們的淨利息收入總額貢獻仍然相對較小，但其貢獻已經增長，並且鑑於利率和其他市場因素的變化，它可能會導致我們的淨利息收入前景出現波動。我們目前預計，受短期融資成本降低和資產負債表成長（包括客戶融資活動增加）的推動，市場淨利息收入將在 2026 年增長至約 20 億美元。正如查理所強調的那樣，這些融資活動往往利潤率較低、風險較低，但會增加淨利息收入。需要提醒的是，雖然市場淨利息收入預計會更高，但這種成長預計將被較低的非利息收入部分抵消。我們的重點是增加市場收入，我們預計到 2026 年收入將會增加。

Net interest income, excluding markets, was $46.7 billion in 2025, and we currently expect NII, excluding markets to be approximately $48 billion in 2026. Key assumptions used for our expectations include two to three rate cuts by the Federal Reserve in 2026 with 10-year treasury rates remaining relatively stable throughout the year, which would be a modest headwind to NII. However, this expected headwind should be more than offset by loan and deposit growth as well as continued fixed asset repricing. Average loans are expected to grow mid-single digits from fourth quarter 2025 to fourth quarter 2026 driven by growth in commercial, auto and credit card loans, all else equal, our provision expense would increase in 2026 as we set aside reserves to support this expected loan growth.

2025 年淨利息收入（不含市場收益）為 467 億美元，我們目前預計 2026 年淨利息收入（不包括市場收益）約為 480 億美元。我們預期所依據的關鍵假設包括聯準會在 2026 年降息兩到三次，10 年期公債利率在全年保持相對穩定，這將對淨利息收入 (NII) 構成輕微的不利影響。然而，貸款和存款的成長以及固定資產持續重新定價應該能夠抵消這種預期的不利因素。預計從 2025 年第四季到 2026 年第四季度，平均貸款金額將以中等個位數成長，這主要得益於商業貸款、汽車貸款和信用卡貸款的成長。在其他條件不變的情況下，由於我們預留了準備金以支持預期中的貸款成長，我們的撥備支出將在 2026 年增加。

Average deposits are also expected to grow mid-single digits over this period with growth in all of our operating segments, with stronger growth in interest-bearing versus noninterest-bearing deposits. We currently expect net interest income, excluding markets to decline in the first quarter due to the impact of two fewer days. Ultimately, the amount of net interest income we earned in 2026 will depend on a variety of factors, many of which are uncertain, including the absolute level of interest rates, the shape of the yield curve, deposit balances, mix and pricing, loan demand and the ultimate mix of activity and volatility in markets.

預計在此期間，平均存款也將實現中等個位數成長，所有營運部門將實現成長，其中計息存款的成長將強於非計息存款。我們目前預計，由於假期減少兩天的影響，第一季淨利息收入（不包括市場因素）將下降。最終，我們在 2026 年獲得的淨利息收入將取決於多種因素，其中許多因素尚不確定，包括利率的絕對水準、收益率曲線的形狀、存款餘額、組合和定價、貸款需求以及市場活動和波動性的最終組合。

Turning to our 2026 expense expectations on slide 18. We continue to focus on efficiency as we simplify the company for our customers' employees while at the same time investing for the future. Following the waterfall on the slide from left to right, our noninterest expense in 2025 was $54.8 billion. Looking at the next bar, our assumptions do not include significant additional severance for 2026, which would result in an approximately $700 million decline in severance expense. We expect revenue-related expenses in 2026 to increase by approximately $800 million in our Wealth and Investment Management business.

接下來請看第 18 頁，了解我們對 2026 年支出的期望。我們將繼續專注於提高效率，簡化客戶員工的公司營運，同時也為未來進行投資。從左到右沿著瀑布圖來看，我們 2025 年的非利息支出為 548 億美元。從下一根長條圖來看，我們的假設不包括 2026 年的大量額外遣散費，這將導致遣散費支出減少約 7 億美元。我們預計 2026 年財富和投資管理業務的收入相關支出將增加約 8 億美元。

As a reminder, this is a good thing as these expenses are more than offset by higher noninterest income. Actual revenue-related expenses will be a function of market levels with the biggest driver being the equity markets. Our outlook assumes the S&P 500 will be up modestly from current levels, but clearly, the ultimate performance of the market is uncertain.

需要提醒的是，這是一件好事，因為這些支出會被更高的非利息收入完全抵銷。實際收入相關支出將取決於市場水平，其中最大的驅動因素是股票市場。我們的展望假設標​​普500指數將從目前水準小幅上漲，但顯然，市場的最終表現尚不明朗。

We expect our FDIC assessment expense to increase by approximately $400 million in 2026 driven by expected deposit growth and the absence of the approximately $200 million special assessment credit that reduced FDIC expense in the fourth quarter. We expect all other expenses to increase approximately $300 million in 2026 with the impact of efficiency initiatives more than offset by higher investments in other expenses. We expect approximately $2.4 billion of gross expense reductions in 2026 due to efficiency initiatives. We successfully delivered approximately $15 billion in gross expense saves since we started focusing on efficiency initiatives five years ago, and we continue to believe we have opportunities to get more efficient across the company.

我們預計，受存款成長預期以及第四季減少 FDIC 費用的約 2 億美元特別評估抵免的取消影響，到 2026 年，我們的 FDIC 評估費用將增加約 4 億美元。我們預計到 2026 年，其他所有支出將增加約 3 億美元，但提高效率的措施帶來的影響將被其他支出增加所抵消。我們預計，由於提高效率的舉措，到 2026 年總支出將減少約 24 億美元。自五年前開始專注於提高效率以來，我們已成功節省了約 150 億美元的總支出，我們仍然相信我們有機會在公司範圍內提高效率。

There are three primary expense drivers that we expect will more than offset the gross expense saves in 2026. First, we expect approximately $1.1 billion of incremental technology expense, including investments in infrastructure and business capabilities. Second, we expect approximately $800 million of incremental other investments, including in the specific areas highlighted on the next slide. And finally, we expect other expenses to increase by approximately $800 million including expected merit and benefit increases as well as performance-based discretionary compensation.

我們預計，到 2026 年，有三個主要支出驅動因素將超過總支出節省。首先，我們預期新增技術支出約為 11 億美元，包括對基礎設施和業務能力的投資。其次，我們預計將有約 8 億美元的其他新增投資，包括在下一張投影片中重點介紹的具體領域。最後，我們預計其他支出將增加約 8 億美元，其中包括預期的績效和福利成長以及基於績效的酌情補償。

Additionally, other expenses reflect approximately $400 million of lower expense following the sale of our railcar leasing business in the first quarter of 2026. However, this benefit will be offset by a reduction in noninterest income.

此外，其他費用反映了在 2026 年第一季出售鐵路貨車租賃業務後，費用減少約 4 億美元。然而，這項收益將被非利息收入的減少所抵銷。

Putting this all together, we currently expect noninterest expense to be approximately $55.7 billion in 2026. And as a reminder, the first quarter personnel expenses are seasonally higher and are expected to be approximately $700 million.

綜合以上因素，我們目前預期 2026 年非利息支出約為 557 億美元。另外提醒一下，第一季的人員費用因季節性因素而較高，預計將達到約 7 億美元。

On slide 19, we provide our key areas of focus for our 2026 investments across the company. And in summary, our results in 2025 reflected continued momentum in improving our financial performance. We generated strong fee-based revenue growth, maintained strong expense and credit discipline, grew our balance sheet, returned significant amounts of capital to shareholders, retained our strong capital position and increased our return on tangible common equity. I'm excited about the opportunities ahead as we build on our momentum and further improve our results.

在第 19 頁，我們列出了公司 2026 年投資的重點領域。總而言之，我們 2025 年的業績反映了我們在改善財務表現方面持續取得的進展。我們實現了強勁的收費收入成長，保持了嚴格的支出和信貸紀律，擴大了資產負債表，向股東返還了大量資本，保持了強大的資本實力，並提高了有形普通股的回報率。我非常期待未來的機遇，我們將乘勢而上，進一步提升業績。

We will now take your questions.

現在開始回答各位的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Scott Siefers, Piper Sandler.

（操作說明）Scott Siefers，Piper Sandler。

Mike, I was hoping you could just expand a little on your thoughts on NII, particularly ex-markets. It looks like 2026 should be basically flat with the fourth quarter annualized level despite the outlook for a pretty good loan growth. It sounds like from what you said, that's mostly going to be a function of the rate outlook, but would just love to hear your expanded thoughts on sort of the puts and takes.

麥克，我希望你能稍微詳細地談談你對淨利息收入（NII）的看法，特別是對非上市公司的淨利息收入的看法。儘管貸款成長前景良好，但2026年的經濟狀況似乎應該與第四季的年化水準基本持平。聽起來，從你剛才說的來看，這主要取決於利率前景，但我很想聽聽你對買賣雙方的進一步看法。

Yes. Sure, Scott. Thanks for the question. You do need to adjust for day count. So it's -- I mean it's a little bit up from when you annualize the fourth quarter.

是的。當然可以，斯科特。謝謝你的提問。確實需要根據天數進行調整。所以——我的意思是，如果把第四季的數據年化，就會略有上升。

But as you said, you really got three things going on. You've got rates coming down, which will be a headwind for NII ex-markets. And then you've got the continuation of deposit and loan growth coming throughout the year, and it's about a build as you go. And so the results will look better as you get towards the latter part of the year.

但正如你所說，你實際上有三件事要處理。利率正在下降，這將對非上市公司的淨利息收入構成不利影響。然後，存款和貸款將在全年持續成長，這是一個循序漸進的過程。因此，隨著時間推移，到了下半年，結果會越來越好。

And at this point, the rate curve is -- our assumptions are pretty similar to what's in the forward curve at the moment. It's really two rate cuts with maybe another one right at the end of the year, which doesn't have much of an impact. And then you've got the loan growth that we've been seeing across the book. I would point out like some of the loan growth in places like cards will be coming in at either intro APRs or zero rate as we continue to grow the book. But when you look at the rest of the portfolio, we're seeing good growth, and that should continue as we look through the year. So it's really just those three things.

而目前，利率曲線－我們的假設與目前遠期曲線的情況非常相似。實際上只有兩次降息，年底可能還會再降一次，但這影響不大。此外，我們還看到了整個貸款業務的成長。我想指出的是，隨著我們業務的不斷增長，信用卡等管道的部分貸款增長將以優惠年利率或零利率的形式發放。但從投資組合的其他部分來看，我們看到了良好的成長，而且這種成長勢頭應該會在今年繼續保持下去。所以其實只有這三件事。

When it comes to like deposits and pricing, we're not seeing anything different than what we expected to see as we come into the year on the commercial side. The betas are what we expected as rates have been coming down, the betas are high. We don't have -- we don't -- our rates on the consumer side are already -- have already been adjusted downward. And so -- and we're not seeing any substantial like change in trend relative to what we expected. So those are the drivers that go into it.

就存款和定價而言，我們在商業方面並沒有看到任何與年初預期不同的情況。正如我們預期的那樣，隨著利率下降，β值很高。我們沒有——我們沒有——我們消費者方面的費率已經——已經下調了。因此——而且我們沒有看到與預期相比有任何實質的趨勢變化。所以，這些就是影響因素。

Perfect. And then I guess to the extent that you can, given how new this issue is, I was hoping you could please maybe address sort of this increased volume around credit card rate caps, how you're thinking about this newer issue. It doesn't sound like it's affected your appetite for growth here at all, but I would just love to hear how you're sort of framing that internally.

完美的。然後，鑑於這個問題是新出現的，我想盡可能地請您談談信用卡利率上限問題，以及您對這個新問題的看法。聽起來這絲毫沒有影響你在這裡的發展熱情，但我很想聽聽你內心是如何看待這件事的。

Well, I think -- listen, I think, first of all, I think we all agree that the underlying issue of focusing on affordability which is people have been experiencing for some time, which we pointed out multiple times when we look at those who have less savings with us than others is a real issue. And so what the right response to that is, is something that we do think should be carefully considered. And so relative to what all this means for us, it's just -- it's too early to know because we're not quite sure what the ultimate actions, whether it's the administration or of Congress choose to go down, and that's something we hope to engage in. But we're very much aligned with trying to find solutions to help as many as we can and just do it in a way that doesn't have adverse impact.

嗯，我認為——聽著，首先，我認為我們都同意，關注可負擔性這一根本問題，人們已經經歷了一段時間的可負擔性問題，我們多次指出，當我們觀察那些在我們這裡儲蓄比其他人少的人時，這是一個真正的問題。因此，對此應該如何正確應對，是我們認為需要認真考慮的問題。所以，就這一切對我們來說意味著什麼而言，現在還為時過早，因為我們還不確定最終的行動，無論是政府還是國會會選擇採取什麼行動，而這正是我們希望參與其中的事情。但我們非常贊同努力尋找解決方案，盡可能幫助更多的人，並且以不會產生不利影響的方式進行。

Ken Usdin, Autonomous Research.

Ken Usdin，自主研究。

Good to see the expected balance sheet growth. One of the base is on how much you're going to continue to be able to -- or desire to grow the lower NIM, lower spread type of that assets and RWA growth vis-a-vis your buyback opportunities and your use of CET1 capital. Can you just kind of help us understand how you're thinking through those trade-offs? And when -- and what's the balancing act between the types of balance sheet growth that you're aspiring to as you think through the overall balance sheet mix?

很高興看到資產負債表實現了預期成長。其中一個基礎在於你能夠或希望在多大程度上繼續發展低淨利差、低利差類型的資產和風險加權資產成長，以及你的回購機會和你對 CET1 資本的使用。您能否幫我們理解一下您是如何權衡這些利弊的？那麼，在考慮整體資產負債表組合時，你所追求的各種資產負債表成長類型之間，何時以及如何才能取得平衡呢？

Yes. Sure, Ken. I'll take a shot at that because there's a few pieces that I'll try to disaggregate for you. When you look at what's happening in the markets business and adding some of the lower ROA financing repo trades I think that -- those don't attract a lot of capital or RWA because the collateral that sits behind them, right? So a lot of treasury collateral and other general collateral that sits there.

是的。當然可以，肯。我會嘗試一下，因為有一些部分需要我為你逐一分析。當你觀察市場業務的現狀，並加入一些低 ROA 融資回購交易時，我認為——這些交易不會吸引大量資本或 RWA，因為它們背後的抵押品，對吧？所以那裡存放著大量的國庫抵押品和其他一般抵押品。

And so -- and those are an important piece of the puzzle as you look to do more across the client base in the markets business. And so you'll see that grow throughout the year, for sure. But again, it doesn't attract a lot of capital or bring with it. What you're seeing across the rest of the balance sheet is growth in loans. And I think those bring varying degrees of capital depending on what they are.

因此——這些都是你在市場業務中拓展客戶群時需要考慮的重要因素。所以你肯定會看到它在一年中不斷增長。但話說回來，它並不能吸引大量資本，也不能帶來大量資本。從資產負債表的其他部分可以看出，貸款業務有所成長。我認為，根據它們的性質，它們帶來的資本程度也各不相同。

And even when you look at some of the growth that we've seen in the nonbank financial space, again, given sort of the way they're structured and given the collaterals that sit behind them, they don't necessarily attract as much capital as a regular way, commercial loan. And so I think as we look at the opportunity there, we want to be able to support clients across the broad spectrum of businesses we have. We're going to continue to focus on the consumer side in the card space and in the auto space where we think we -- within our risk appetite there.

即使看看我們在非銀行金融領域看到的一些成長，考慮到它們的結構方式以及它們背後的抵押品，它們也不一定會像常規的商業貸款那樣吸引那麼多資本。因此，我認為，當我們審視其中的機會時，我們希望能夠為我們所服務的各行各業的客戶提供支援。我們將繼續專注於信用卡和汽車領域的消費者市場，我們認為在這些領域，我們的風險承受能力是可以承受的。

And then I think on the commercial side, we'll continue to be very thoughtful about what we go after. But just to point out something we've said a lot is our risk appetite really hasn't changed and we're not looking to change that in a significant way. But now that the asset cap is gone, we've got more opportunity to continue to do more with clients. And that should create this good virtuous circle where they do more fee-based business with us as well.

至於商業方面，我認為我們會繼續認真思考我們所追求的目標。但需要指出的是，我們多次強調，我們的風險偏好其實並沒有改變，我們也不打算對此進行重大改變。但現在資產上限取消了，我們有了更多機會繼續為客戶做更多的事情。這樣就能形成一個良性循環，他們也會和我們進行更多收費業務。

Let me just add a couple of things, if I can, Ken. First of all, just agree obviously, with everything that Mike said. But as we increase the financing that we do in markets business, our expectation of doing that is because we will wind up getting paid in other ways as well. And so that's not -- those don't happen concurrently, but it's something that we track by client to ensure that we're actually seeing that payoff. And we'll do our best to share that as time goes on.

肯，如果可以的話，我想補充幾點。首先，顯然我完全同意麥克說的所有話。但隨著我們在市場業務中融資規模的擴大，我們之所以這樣做，是因為我們最終也會以其他方式獲得報酬。所以，這些事情不會同時發生，但我們會按客戶跟踪，以確保我們確實看到了回報。隨著時間的推移，我們會盡力與大家分享這些資訊。

And that will determine ultimately how much we're willing to grow the financing business, right? The assumption is, as we've seen up until now that we do get paid for it. But the card is a little bit ahead of the horse on that one kind of period by period, we need to see that play out.

而這最終將決定我們願意將融資業務發展到什麼程度，對吧？正如我們目前所看到的，我們的假設是，我們會因此獲得報酬。但就目前的情況來看，這種階段性的結果有點超前，我們需要看看最終結果如何。

And then the only other thing I would add on what Mike said in terms of just the rest of the balance sheet, just to be really clear is this is not an either/or for us at this point, right? We have significant opportunities to be able to extend loans and use our balance sheet for customers and to continue to buy stock back. We're not -- on the margin, we're making the trade-off decision but just given the amount of capital that we generate, the amount of opportunity that we have on both is significant. And so it's a good problem to have because in the past, all we could do is buy stock back because we were limited in what we can do for clients.

關於麥克所說的資產負債表的其他部分，我唯一要補充的是，為了更清楚地說明，目前對我們來說，這並不是一個非此即彼的問題，對吧？我們有很大的機會向客戶提供貸款，利用我們的資產負債表，並繼續回購股票。我們並非——在邊緣地帶，我們正在做出權衡取捨的決定，但考慮到我們產生的資本量，我們在這兩方面都擁有巨大的機會。所以這是一個幸福的煩惱，因為在過去，我們所能做的只是回購股票，因為我們能為顧客提供的服務有限。

Now we can do both, but there's significant capacity and as you well know, we're still above what we've said our targeted range of capital should be. And we've also said that our targeted range still has significant buffers on top of the regulatory buffers, and that's something that we'll evaluate as the regulators finalize the capital proposals and the other things that we would be able to step back and say, okay, what do we think that means for us going forward, but it's all positive for us to have flexibility.

現在我們兩件事都可以做了，但產能很大，而且如您所知，我們目前的資本規模仍然高於我們先前設定的目標範圍。我們也說過，我們的目標範圍除了調節緩衝之外，還有很大的緩衝空間。隨著監管機構最終確定資本提案和其他事項，我們將對此進行評估，以便我們能夠冷靜下來思考，這對我們未來的發展意味著什麼。但對我們來說，擁有彈性總是好事。

And Charlie, my follow-up just on that last point, 10.6% exiting the year and you mentioned you have the 10%, 10.5% range outlook. Does that mean that you're also comfortable guiding towards the lower end, which would still give you a lot of buffer to your earlier point?

查理，關於最後一點，我還有後續問題，你說年底收益率是 10.6%，而你預測收益率範圍是 10% 到 10.5%。那是不是代表你也樂於引導價格朝較低方向發展，這樣你就能比之前的觀點留出很大的緩衝空間？

Yes. I mean, look, we gave a range, Ken, of 10%, 10.5%. And so that would mean we're comfortable operating in the range, right?

是的。我的意思是，你看，肯，我們給的範圍是 10% 到 10.5%。所以這意味著我們可以在這個範圍內安全操作，對嗎？

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

Ebrahim Poonawala，美國銀行。

I just wanted to follow up. I think there's -- so I completely appreciate what you're saying in terms of focus on profitability while you're growing the businesses. Like we heard JPMorgan talk about investing in businesses and investing capital where the returns are probably sub-17%. I think maybe, Mike, Charlie, to the extent, I think that's one concern that you hear persistently over the last few months is how do you grow the business while improving the ROTCE, capital leverage aside, maybe if you don't mind double-clicking on some of the expense and the efficiency initiatives you laid out on slide 18. And I think you mentioned that even beyond 2026, you see that. Just trying to get a better sense of the outsized efficiency opportunity that Wells has to achieve that ROTCE while delivering superior growth.

我只是想跟進一下。我認為——所以我完全理解你所說的在發展業務的同時注重盈利能力。正如我們聽到摩根大通談論的那樣，投資回報率可能低於 17% 的企業和資本。我覺得，麥克、查理，在某種程度上，我認為在過去的幾個月裡，你們不斷聽到的一個擔憂是，如何在提高 ROTCE 的同時發展業務，撇開資本槓桿不談，也許你們可以再仔細考慮一下你們在第 18 張幻燈片上列出的一些費用和效率提升措施。而且我認為你也提到過，即使到了 2026 年以後，這種情況仍然存在。我只是想更了解富國銀行在實現卓越成長的同時，在提高股東權益回報率方面所擁有的巨大效率提升空間。

Yes. Let me just start out, Mike, and then I'll hand it over to you for like some real facts. But just what we have been doing -- I mean, what we're talking about doing is a continuation of what we have been doing, right, which is we believe that we continue to have opportunities going forward. And if you look at what we've been able to do, we've cut $15 billion of expenses out of the company. Our -- as we've said, we a couple of years ago, we had increased our regulatory expenses by $2 billion to $2.5 billion on an annual basis. And our expenses have come down.

是的。麥克，我先說幾句，然後交給你來陳述一些事實。但我們一直在做的事情——我的意思是，我們正在談論做的事情，是我們一直在做的事情的延續，對吧，那就是我們相信我們未來仍將擁有機會。看看我們取得了哪些成就，我們已經為公司削減了 150 億美元的開支。正如我們幾年前所說，我們的監管支出每年增加了 20 億至 25 億美元。我們的開支也下降了。

And so if you look at what that difference and all that is, that is a significant amount of money that we've been able to use to reinvest to position ourselves for growth. And that's very much of the way that we continue to think about what we want to accomplish here, which is we think we have more tools on a going-forward basis to get more efficient than we've ever had and especially with AI. And we're going to continue to figure out what we think the right trade-off is to reinvest those savings into driving growth inside the company as we've done in the past.

因此，如果你仔細分析這種差異以及所有這些，你會發現我們已經能夠利用這筆巨款進行再投資，為成長做好準備。而這正是我們繼續思考我們想要在這裡實現的目標的方式，那就是我們認為，在未來，我們將擁有比以往更多的工具來提高效率，尤其是在人工智慧方面。我們將繼續思考，如何像過去一樣，將這些節省下來的資金重新投入到推動公司內部成長的正確方案中。

But as we think about what we've done to be able to increase the returns of the company it is either -- what we've done is we've reduced the expense base of the company while we've grown revenues. And so there's not a lot of rocket science as to what we're trying to accomplish here, it's more of the same. And we feel like we're in a great position to both use the benefits that we get by driving increased efficiency to contain any expense growth at this point and to see the benefits of those investments come through to increase revenue growth.

但當我們思考我們為了提高公司回報所做的工作時，要么是——我們減少了公司的成本基礎，要么是增加了收入。所以，我們在這裡想要實現的目標並沒有什麼高深的科學原理，只是跟以前一樣而已。我們感覺自己處於非常有利的地位，既可以利用提高效率帶來的好處來控制目前的支出成長，又能看到這些投資帶來的好處來增加收入成長。

And Ebrahim, maybe I'll just point out some things we saw in 2025 that sort of go at what Charlie said. The credit card business new accounts up 20% year-on-year. Auto lending balances up 19%, loans in the commercial side up 12%. Growth in Investment Banking, 12% investment banking fee growth. WIM fees up significantly. And then if you look at it over a slightly longer time period, you also see trading up substantially. And so a lot --

亞伯拉罕，或許我可以指出我們在 2025 年看到的一些事情，這些事情與查理所說的有些矛盾。信用卡業務新帳戶年增 20%。汽車貸款餘額增加 19%，商業貸款成長 12%。投資銀行業務成長，投資銀行手續費成長12%。WIM費用大幅上漲。如果你把時間跨度稍微延長一些，你也會發現交易價格大幅上漲。所以很多--

Trading up, banking up.

升級換購，積蓄財富。

Yes. And so a lot of what Charlie talked about is coming through in the results while we're getting more efficient. And I think as we've said a number of times, but also in sort of the prepared remarks is that we're just getting started in terms of really realizing the opportunity we have across each of the businesses.

是的。所以查理所說的很多內容都在結果中得到了體現，同時我們的效率也越來越高。正如我們多次說過的那樣，也在事先準備好的發言稿中提到過，我們才剛開始真正掌握各個業務領域所擁有的機會。

That is helpful. And I guess maybe just a separate question on capital. M&A comes up a lot in the context of Well rightly or wrongly now. And I appreciate you're going to be disciplined and you should be looking for sort of strategic opportunities. But just remind us when you think about M&A, either Wealth Management or bank M&A, just how you're thinking about it? What do you think makes strategic sense where it would not be a distraction from what you're trying to achieve organically?

那很有幫助。我想或許可以單獨問一個關於資本的問題。現在，無論對錯，併購經常出現在「嗯」這個脈絡中。我很欣賞你的自律精神，也希望你能尋找一些策略性的機會。但請您在考慮併購時，無論是財富管理併購還是銀行併購，都請您具體說說您是如何考慮的？你認為在不分散你自然而然想要實現的目標的前提下，要採取哪些具有戰略意義的做法？

Yes. I mean, I'll start with probably the most important thing is, which is we feel no pressure to do any M&A whatsoever in any of our businesses because we feel so good about the quality and the completeness of our franchise is -- and the opportunities that we have. And not everyone is in that position, and we feel blessed to be in that position. But as you point out, it's wrong not to say we would never think about something. We, of course, would think about anything that made sense.

是的。我的意思是，首先要說的可能是最重要的一點，那就是我們沒有任何壓力要在任何業務中進行任何併購，因為我們對我們特許經營的品質和完整性以及我們所擁有的機會感到非常滿意。並非每個人都能處於這種境地，我們為自己能處於這種境地而感到幸運。但正如你所指出的，說我們永遠不會考慮某件事是錯的。我們當然會考慮任何合理的方案。

But I would just say the bar would be high for us, both in terms of what we would expect financially, and it should be something that would have some kind of material -- make us materially more attractive for investors. So we're not just looking to buy things for the sake of buying things. In fact, it's just the opposite. We spend our time focused on driving the organic opportunities that we have.

但我想說的是，這對我們來說要求很高，無論是在財務方面，還是在實質上，都應該讓我們對投資者更有吸引力。所以我們不是為了買而買。事實上，情況恰恰相反。我們把時間集中在把握現有的自然成長機會。

John McDonald, Truist Securities.

John McDonald，Truist Securities。

Mike, one follow-up on the NII. Does the growth in markets NII that you expect in '26 have a trade-off in the trading fees? Or maybe said differently, the base of trading fee revenues in '25 looks like about $5.1 billion? Is that a good starting point that you feel like you can grow off of? Or is there any kind of trade-off with markets NII?

Mike，關於NII還有一個後續問題。您預期 2026 年市場淨利息收入的成長是否會對交易費用產生不利影響？換句話說，2025 年的交易手續費收入基數約為 51 億美元？你覺得這是一個可以讓你不斷成長的好起點嗎？或者說，市場淨利息收入（NII）是否存在某種權衡取捨？

Yes. No, John, it's a good clarification. And I tried to address that in my remarks, but there is a trade-off. The growth in NII is partially offset by a reduction in the fee line, not entirely, but partially offset by the fee line given the dynamic we have in terms of overall growth. But as I said in the remarks, if you look at overall revenue, overall revenue, we expect to grow in the markets business this year.

是的。不，約翰，這是一個很好的澄清。我在發言中試圖談到這一點，但這其中存在著權衡取捨。NII 的成長部分被手續費收入的減少所抵消，雖然不能完全抵消，但考慮到我們整體成長的動態，手續費收入的減少確實部分抵消了 NII 的成長。但正如我在演講中所說，如果從整體收入來看，我們預計今年市場業務將實現成長。

And you should see some normal seasonality in there as well, right, where you see a low point in the fourth quarter, and you see a little bit of a snapback in the first quarter. And so I think you'll see some of that -- you'll see that normal pattern. But overall, revenue in the markets business, we would expect to be higher.

而且你還應該可以看到一些正常的季節性變化，對吧？你會看到第四節的低谷，然後第一節會稍微回升。所以我想你會看到一些這樣的現象——你會看到那種正常的模式。但整體而言，我們預期市場業務的收入會更高。

Yes. So to that point, we do disclose that, and so we would encourage everyone to look at disclosure and as you project forward to think about that number as opposed to just the pieces because it will -- the mix will change depending on the rate environment.

是的。所以，關於這一點，我們確實會披露這些信息，因此我們鼓勵大家關注披露信息，並在展望未來時考慮這個整體數字，而不是僅僅考慮各個組成部分，因為組合會隨著利率環境的變化而變化。

Yes. And maybe just pulling back then, just thinking about total revenues, you've got the NII growing maybe about 5% this year. Are you thinking about total revenue growth also in kind of that mid-single-digit kind of growth category, and you've got 1% to 2% expense growth and a couple of hundred basis points of operating leverage this year?

是的。也許退一步講，只考慮總收入，今年的淨利息收入可能會成長 5% 左右。您是否也在考慮總收入成長，預計成長率在個位數中等水平，而今年的支出成長率為 1% 到 2%，經營槓桿率為數百個基點？

That's not a number we guide to, John. But -- and obviously, in the markets business, it's going to be a function of what we see throughout the year in terms of the opportunity set that's there, the volatility and all the right caveats that go there. But we would expect the overall to be up, and we'll see by exactly how much.

約翰，我們不會以那個數字為指導。但是——顯然，在市場業務中，這將取決於我們全年所看到的各種機會、波動性以及所有相關的注意事項。但我們預期整體數據會上升，至於具體上升多少，我們拭目以待。

Yes. Just listen, just -- we're not trying to be coy and not give you something that we think we should be giving you. But it's just the reality is a significant number of the items that are embedded in noninterest income, are highly dependent on the world and on the markets, which as we know can be very, very volatile, whether it is the trading numbers or the revenue items related to our WIM business. And so we're long-term believers that those -- that the underlying business grows that we can take share, and so we would expect to see growth in those numbers. We just want to be really careful about providing any kind of guidance in any way, shape or form that boxes any of us in relative to our inability to predict that.

是的。聽著，我們不是故意賣關子，也不是故意不給你我們認為應該給你的東西。但現實情況是，非利息收入中包含的大量項目都高度依賴世界和市場，而我們都知道，無論是交易數據還是與我們的 WIM 業務相關的收入項目，世界和市場都可能非常非常不穩定。因此，我們長期相信，隨著業務基礎的成長，我們可以獲得市場份額，所以我們預計這些數字會成長。我們只是想非常謹慎地提供任何形式的指導，以免因為無法預測未來而限制我們任何人。

Okay. Great. Fair enough. And Mike, one quick follow-up on the commercial nonperformers. It did move up. You mentioned it in the opening comments. Any more color on just what drove that? It's off a low base, but lost content or any thoughts about the drivers there?

好的。偉大的。很公平。麥克，關於商業廣告效果不佳的問題，我還有一個後續問題要補充。它的排名確實上升了。你在開場白中提到了這一點。關於促使這種情況發生的具體原因，還有什麼細節可以透露嗎？雖然基數很低，但有沒有關於內容遺失或司機方面的想法？

Yes. A couple of thoughts. I mean, look, I mean, if you look at it over a long time period, the number can be quite volatile like period-to-period. So I wouldn't read too much into that. There's really nothing systemic that we're seeing come through.

是的。幾點想法。我的意思是，你看，如果你從長遠的角度來看，這個數字可能會像各個時期一樣波動很大。所以我覺得沒必要對此過度解讀。目前來看，並沒有什麼系統性的問題出現。

And when you really look back at nonperforming assets, they're actually not a very good predictor of loss. And the vast majority of them are performing both on principal and interest. And so it's some individual names that sort of move it around quarter-to-quarter, but nothing systemic as you sort of look at it that we can see.

當你真正回顧不良資產時，你會發現它們實際上並不是損失的一個很好的預測指標。絕大多數債券都實現了本金和利息的雙贏。因此，有些個人的名字可能會讓季度排名有所波動，但從我們的角度來看，並沒有任何系統性的原因。

Betsy Graseck, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的貝齊·格拉塞克。

A couple of questions follow-up here. One is just on the markets commentary that we were discussing earlier around its lower ROA business. Can you talk to us about how you're thinking about the impact on ROTCE? And is there a limit to which you would go because if it's dilutive to ROA, it's dilutive of ROTCE, so I realize that regulatory capital is low. But GAAP capital still there. So help us understand how you're navigating that? How large are you okay with it becoming?

這裡還有幾個後續問題。一是之前我們討論過的關於其較低的 ROA 業務的市場評論。您能否談談您如何看待這對ROTCE的影響？是否有一個限制，因為如果稀釋了 ROA，就會稀釋 ROTCE，所以我意識到監管資本很低。但符合GAAP準則的資本仍然存在。請您幫我們了解一下您是如何應對這種情況的？你覺得它最終能達到多大的尺寸？

Yes. Betsy, I don't anticipate it's going to have any kind of negative impact on where we think returns go. The returns given the nature of it, the returns are fine, and it's not going to be -- going to have to be dilutive relative to the overall returns of either the segment or the overall company. And as Charlie mentioned, the financing opportunity that you get through doing this -- kind of the -- or the additional opportunity you get by providing financing capacity to clients should start to build more meaningfully over time as well that sort of builds up the kind of the fuller set of revenues for each of those clients.

是的。貝齊，我預計這不會對我們認為的收益走向產生任何負面影響。鑑於其性質，目前的回報是可以接受的，而且相對於該部門或整個公司的整體回報而言，它不會造成稀釋。正如查理所提到的，透過這種方式獲得的融資機會——或者說，透過向客戶提供融資能力而獲得的額外機會——應該會隨著時間的推移而更有意義地積累起來，從而為每個客戶積累更全面的收入。

And Betsy, if I can just add couple of things. Just number one is we are not going to grow our trading business in any kind of outsized way, which would have a negative impact on our ability to produce the kind of returns that we want and you would expect. So there's nothing outsized in our minds about where that goes. I think we're starting from a low base. So it looks like it's -- it sounds like it's significant, but it shouldn't be significant to the impact to what we can produce as a company.

貝齊，如果我可以補充幾點的話。第一點就是，我們不會以任何過大的方式發展我們的交易業務，因為這會對我們產生我們想要和你們所期望的回報的能力產生負面影響。所以，在我們看來，這件事的發展方向並沒有什麼不合常理的地方。我認為我們起點很低。所以看起來——聽起來很重要，但它對我們公司能夠生產的產品的影響應該不會很大。

And the other thing I would point out is a big part of why we're in the markets business, it's not for the sake of just making money in trading on its own. These are corporate relationships and these -- in which we have a broader set of business activities and as you grow your secondary business, it helps with your primary business. They're very, very much related. And so as we think about returns, we are very focused on returns overall and specifically ROTCE and we're either going to see it or will slow it. And again, just the size is relative to like who we are, not relative to what everyone else is out in the marketplace and we are driven by where we intend to move the firm from an overall return standpoint.

我還要指出一點，我們從事市場業務的一個重要原因，不僅是為了透過交易本身賺錢。這些是企業關係，在這些關係中，我們開展更廣泛的業務活動，隨著您的副業發展，它也有助於您的主業發展。它們之間有著非常非常密切的聯繫。因此，當我們考慮回報時，我們非常關注整體回報，特別是 ROTCE，我們要么會看到它增長，要么會放緩它的增長。再次強調，公司規模與我們自身的定位有關，而不是與市場上其他公司的規模有關。我們受公司整體回報目標的驅動，致力於將公司推向新的高度。

Okay. That's helpful to understand how you think through that. And then just separately, when I think about -- first of all, loan growth accelerating this quarter, very nice to see and heard all of the commentary around how you're expecting trajectory from here. Charlie, I had a question just on what kind of loan growth, firm credit quality should we be anticipating as you build out this loan growth over the medium term. The reason I'm asking the question is before the asset cap, before GFC, Wells was very well known as a full spectrum lender, both on the consumer side and in the corporate side as well, SMBs, a lot of middle market et cetera. And so I'm -- where are you looking to take the organization as you have the opportunities to lean into growth?

好的。這有助於了解你的思考過程。然後，單獨來說，當我想到——首先，本季度貸款成長加速，很高興看到和聽到所有關於您預期未來發展軌蹟的評論。查理，我有個問題，關於你在中期內拓展貸款業務時，我們應該預期貸款成長規模和信貸品質會是什麼樣的。我之所以問這個問題，是因為在資產上限政策實施之前，也就是全球金融危機之前，富國銀行以全方位貸款機構而聞名，其業務涵蓋消費者、企業、中小企業以及眾多中端市場等等。所以我想問的是──當你們有機會推動組織發展壯大時，你們希望把組織帶到何處？

So yes, lets -- so if we separate the business into the wholesale side and the consumer side for a second, where we are going on our wholesale credit business is no different from where we've been, specifically in the commercial bank. The business -- the risk appetite that we've had continues to be the same level of risk appetite. And what we're focused on is getting stronger in geographies where we have more opportunity, where there are more opportunities to grow and grow with the clients and the rest of our business. So there, it is more of a market share gain than any kind of change in where we're looking in terms of what the credit opportunity is.

所以，是的，讓我們——如果我們暫時把業務分成批發業務和消費業務，那麼我們在批發信貸業務方面的發展方向與我們在商業銀行方面的發展方向並無不同。業務方面－我們一直保持著相同的風險偏好水準。我們現在的重點是加強我們在那些有更多機會的地區的發展，在這些地區我們有更多機會與客戶和我們業務的其他部分一起成長。所以，這更多的是市場佔有率的成長，而不是我們在信貸機會方面關注的任何變化。

On the CIB side, we have done more to support our corporate client base. But again, very, very focused on not taking risks that go beyond the way we've thought about risk appetite as a company. So very, very consistent there. When we look at our consumer businesses, I put it into like there are different phases. There's -- the way we operated historically where we were -- historically, we were very, very good at credit.

在企業及投資銀行業務方面，我們為支持我們的企業客戶群做了更多工作。但再次強調，我們非常非常注重不承擔超出公司既定風險承受能力範圍的風險。這一點非常非常一致。當我們審視我們的消費者業務時，我認為它分為不同的階段。從歷史上看，我們在信貸方面做得非常出色。

In different businesses, we were more of a full spectrum lender across different segments, but more weighting towards the higher FICO customers. As we've gone through the last bunch of years as we've had to focus on different things and there have been different economic circumstances there, it's been much more focused on the higher credit quality. So I would say the opportunity for us, and we referred to this when we talk about our auto business specifically, is to be more full spectrum, but not in a way that materially changes what you've ever thought of us as. In fact, it's probably much more of the way you've thought about us in the past. So again, just go back to what the North Star is, is that we're very, very focused on returns in places like the auto business, in order to get the right returns, being a full spectrum lender is helpful, but we're not going to do it in a way that creates a tail of risk in our lending book, which is not consistent with how we think about our risk appetite.

在不同的行業中，我們更像是一家涵蓋不同領域的全方位貸款機構，但更專注於信用評分較高的客戶。在過去的幾年裡，由於我們必須關注不同的事情，而且經濟環境也發生了變化，我們更加重視提高信貸品質。所以我認為，我們的機會（我們在談到我們的汽車業務時也提到過這一點）是更加全面地發展，但不會從根本上改變你們一直以來對我們的看法。事實上，這可能更接近你過去對我們的看法。所以，再說一遍，回到我們的北極星目標，那就是我們非常非常專注於汽車業務等領域的收益。為了獲得合適的收益，成為全方位貸款機構會有所幫助，但我們不會以在貸款組合中造成風險拖尾的方式來做到這一點，因為這與我們對風險偏好的思考方式是不一致的。

Erika Najarian, UBS.

瑞銀集團的 Erika Najarian。

Just one follow-up question. You mentioned $800 million in higher revenue-related expenses for the year and considering the S&P up a little. I'm just wondering in the spirit of what Charlie mentioned, not putting in a box, is the expense number of $55.7 billion contemplating a pretty robust capital markets environment that the investors are expecting?

還有一個後續問題。您提到今年與收入相關的支出增加了 8 億美元，並考慮到標普 500 指數略有上漲。我只是想秉承查理所說的精神，不妄下定論，557億美元的支出數字是否考慮到了投資者所預期的相當強勁的資本市場環境？

Erika, this is Mike. The $800 million is exclusively in our Wealth Management business. And that -- and that is based primarily on sort of where the overall equity market will land. And we do expect it to be up modestly from where it is today. I think more broadly, we do include in that -- in the bottom of our expense expectation slide in the other category, there is performance-based compensation included there, and that would include anything we expect for the market, and we do expect to have a pretty active market this year.

艾麗卡，這是麥克。這8億美元全部用於我們的財富管理業務。而這——主要取決於整體股市的走勢。我們預計它會比現在的水平略有上漲。我認為更廣泛地說，我們確實將這部分也包括在內——在我們費用預期幻燈片的底部，其他類別中，包括基於績效的薪酬，這包括我們對市場的預期，而且我們預計今年的市場會相當活躍。

Steven Chubak, Wolfe Research.

史蒂文‧丘巴克，沃爾夫研究中心。

So I wanted to ask on the assumptions underpinning like the '26 NII guidance, specifically around loan and deposit growth. You guys saw a really nice acceleration in some of the balance sheet KPIs to close out the year. Lending and deposit growth both grew mid-single digits sequentially. That's essentially the level of growth that you guys are contemplating for the full year for '26, so it does imply a pretty meaningful deceleration. And I recognize mid-single-digit growth is nothing to scoff at. But just what informs the slowdown? Is that a function of conservatism, either your sources of lending strength in the fourth quarter or something else?

因此，我想詢問一下 2026 年淨利息收入指引背後的假設，特別是關於貸款和存款成長的假設。你們都看到了，在年底之際，一些資產負債表關鍵指標出現了非常不錯的加速成長。貸款和存款成長均環比實現了中等個位數成長。這基本上就是你們對 2026 年全年成長的預期水平，所以這確實意味著成長速度將出現相當大的放緩。我承認，個位數中段的成長絕非小事。但究竟是什麼導致了經濟放緩？這是保守主義的表現，還是你們第四季借貸實力的來源，抑或是其他原因？

Yes. Steve, look, I think you got to be careful to extrapolate from one quarter and you can see quite some seasonality that's in there. So in our Commercial Bank as an example, there's some trade finance type loans that are seasonally there at year-end. So that will roll down a bit in the first quarter. So there are some elements that sort of -- that offset it. And it can be pretty volatile quarter-to-quarter in terms of the growth you see there.

是的。史蒂夫，你看，我認為你必須謹慎地根據一個季度的數據進行推斷，而且你可以看到其中存在相當多的季節性因素。以我們的商業銀行為例，在年底會有一些季節性的貿易融資貸款。所以第一季這個數字會稍微下降。所以有一些因素可以起到一定的抵消作用。而且，就成長而言，季度之間的波動可能相當大。

But what I would say is like what we're not -- and I try to get this across in the remarks, what we're not assuming is some like big broad-based increase in utilization across the commercial bank. So there could be more loan growth if we start to see utilization rates tick up. There's lots of factors that could drive it higher from what we have there. But I think as we sit here today, we think this is an appropriate place to be based on all of what we're seeing.

但我想說的是，我們並沒有——而且我也試圖在演講中表達這一點——我們並沒有假設商業銀行的利用率會大幅普遍提高。因此，如果我們看到貸款利用率開始上升，貸款成長可能會進一步增加。有很多因素可能會使價格從目前的水平進一步上漲。但我認為，就我們今天所處的位置而言，根據我們所看到的一切，我們認為這是一個合適的位置。

Okay. Great. And then for my follow-up, Charlie, I did want to ask on the 17% to 18% ROTCE target. So it's pretty clear based on our investor conversations that no one is really questioning the potential for the franchise to get to the 17% to 18%. You even noted that's not the extent of your longer-term ambitions but you've been reluctant to commit to timing.

好的。偉大的。然後，查理，我的後續問題是，我想問 17% 到 18% 的 ROTCE 目標。根據我們與投資者的對話，很明顯，沒有人真正質疑該特許經營權達到 17% 到 18% 的潛力。你甚至指出這並非你長期抱負的全部，但你一直不願意確定具體時間。

It does appear that's driving a wider range in terms of earnings expectations. I was hoping you could just contextualize what are some of the milestones you're looking for or areas where you might need better visibility in order to get sufficient comfort to offer a more explicit timeline for that 17% to 18%?

看來這確實導致了獲利預期範圍的擴大。我希望您能具體說明一下，您希望達成哪些里程碑，或者在哪些方面您需要更清晰的了解，以便能夠更明確地給出17%到18%的完成時間表？

Yes. Come on -- I mean let's just be a little reasonable here. Like you're all very smart people, right? And you traffic in the same world that we traffic in, which is we don't know what the credit environment will be over the next one, two, three, four, five years. We don't know what the interest rate curve is going to be.

是的。拜託——我的意思是，咱們就理性一點吧。你們都是很聰明的人，對吧？你們和我們身處同一個世界，那就是我們不知道未來一、二、三、四、五年內的信貸環境會是什麼樣的。我們不知道利率曲線會如何變動。

We don't know what the market levels will do. And so asking for a very specific timeline where there are just a huge amount of variables that impact that end result is just not -- it's just not a -- certainly, we don't think it's a smart thing for us to be able to predict because we don't know those things.

我們不知道市場水準會如何變化。因此，要求一個非常具體的時間表，而影響最終結果的變數又非常多，這根本不是——這根本不是——當然，我們認為我們能夠預測這件事並不明智，因為我們不知道這些事情。

But what we've said historically is what we continue to say, which is those things can be volatile. Those things will go up or down. But what we're focused on is ensuring that we are building a business which will drive higher revenue growth, reasonable expenses where we see the payoffs for the investments that we're making. Very, very focused on ensuring that we're getting the right returns for what we're doing. And so as you see the underlying growth metrics that we pointed out in our remarks that you'll be able to tie that to the underlying revenue captions, and look through the impact of volatility.

但我們過去一直強調的，也是我們現在仍然堅持的，那就是這些事情可能會變得不穩定。這些東西的價格會有漲有跌。但我們關注的是確保我們正在打造一個能夠推動更高收入成長、合理支出且投資能夠獲得回報的業務。我們非常非常注重確保我們所做的事情能夠獲得應有的回報。因此，正如我們在演講中指出的那樣，您可以看到潛在的成長指標，並將其與潛在的收入指標聯繫起來，從而排除波動性的影響。

And so as we grow accounts, as we grow balances, as we grow market share, you see it coming through revenue, you see control of expenses. It will be -- life isn't a straight line in these businesses, which is why we want to stay away from putting any specific time frame on it. But we've also been tried to be helpful in saying, it's not -- what's midterm, meaning it's not tomorrow, but it's also not over an extended period of time. And we know that we should be able to show you that we're making progress to get there, and you should feel like it's possible. And we've shown up until this point that we've been able to do that. And hopefully, you'll see that in the underlying results and you'll have the confidence that we'll have the confidence that it continues, but you'll either see it in the results or you won't.

因此，隨著帳戶數量的增長、餘額的增加、市場份額的擴大，你會看到收入的提升，你會看到支出的控制。確實如此——這些產業的發展並非一帆風順，所以我們不想設定任何具體的時間表。但我們也曾試圖提供協助，說明期中考並非指明天的考試，但也不是持續很長時間的考試。我們知道我們應該能夠向你們展示我們正在朝著目標取得進展，你們也應該覺得這是有可能實現的。到目前為止，我們已經證明我們能夠做到這一點。希望你能從最終結果中看到這一點，並相信我們也會繼續保持這種勢頭，但結果要么能讓你看到，要么就看不到。

All right. Well, Charlie, your peers do provide a timeline. So I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for us to ask for that. But I understand your perspective, there is a lot of uncertainty. If I could just squeeze in one more.

好的。查理，你的同行確實提供了一個時間表。所以我認為我們提出這樣的要求並不算過分。但我理解你的觀點，確實存在著許多不確定因素。如果我能再擠出一個就好了。

Just you listed various sources of efficiency initiatives in the slides, you're making good progress there. You didn't explicitly mention how much of that reduction in the excess regulatory cost of 2% to 2.5% is contributing to some of those efficiency gains. So I just wanted to understand how much relief should come from that this year, if that should also drive incremental efficiency gains beyond 2026, which informs that improvement in returns you just alluded to?

你在投影片中列舉了各種提高效率的舉措，這方面你做得很好。你沒有明確提到，這2%到2.5%的額外監管成本減少中，有多少是促成這些效率提升的因素。所以我想了解的是，今年應該能從中獲得多少緩解，以及這是否也能推動2026年後效率的逐步提高，從而帶來您剛才提到的收益改善？

Steve, it's Mike. Yes, we continue to work to streamline and bring better technology to some of what we've implemented over the last number of years. So I'd say there's a little bit of impact from that in the efficiency work this year but that will likely continue to come over a slightly longer period of time. And I would just kind of also reinforce just on the efficiency stuff. It's like there's -- there's no new silver bullet here.

史蒂夫，我是麥克。是的，我們一直在努力簡化流程，並為我們過去幾年實施的一些專案引入更好的技術。所以我覺得今年的效率提升工作會受到一些影響，但這種影響可能會在稍長的一段時間內持續顯現。我還要再強調一下效率方面的問題。就好像──這裡沒有什麼新的靈丹妙藥。

It's continuing to peel back the onion in each of the areas, drive better automation, reduce real estate costs, reduce third-party spend. And so -- so there's hundreds of things that happen across the company in any given quarter to sort of help drive that. But we would expect to be able to continue to optimize some of that over a slightly longer time period, but there is a little bit of impact this year.

它正繼續在各個領域層層深入，推動更好的自動化，降低房地產成本，減少第三方支出。因此，在任何一個季度，公司內部都會發生數百件事情來幫助推動這一目標的實現。但我們預計能夠在稍長的一段時間內繼續優化其中的一些方面，但今年將產生一些影響。

John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

John Pancari，Evercore ISI。

Mike, just on the margin dynamics for the fourth quarter. I know your loan yields declined by about 19 basis points linked quarter. Can you maybe give us a little more color of the driver? How much of that was -- I know you cited the trade finance dynamic, maybe securities lending and the markets business. Curious what really were the bigger drivers behind that? And maybe if you can kind of dovetail that into how you think about the underlying margin trajectory as you look at 2026, given these dynamics?

麥克，我只是想談談第四季的邊際動態。我知道你的貸款收益率季減了約19個基點。能再給我們介紹一下這位司機嗎？其中有多少是──我知道你提到了貿易融資動態，或許還有證券借貸和市場業務。想知道背後真正的主要驅動因素是什麼？考慮到這些動態因素，或許你可以把這些因素與你對 2026 年潛在利潤率走勢的思考結合在一起？

Yes. No, on the loan side, the biggest driver is rates coming down, right? So you got a big variable rate portfolio there on the commercial side. So that's going to be the biggest driver. In some of the areas, it's very competitive.

是的。不，就貸款方面而言，最大的驅動因素是利率下降，對吧？所以你們在商業貸款方面有一個很大的浮動利率投資組合。所以這將是最大的驅動因素。在某些領域，競爭非常激烈。

And so you see a little bit of spread compression across some of the commercial book as well. But the biggest driver in the sequential quarter is going to be rates. And then when you just look over -- as we come into next year, as we said, you'll be growing a little bit of some of the lower ROA exposure. So that will have an impact on overall margin. And then you'll also have rates coming down again this year if the forward rates materialize. And so -- and then that will be offset by new activity that we put on to the books and some of the fixed asset repricing, particularly in the securities portfolio.

因此，您也可以看到一些商業債券的價差有所收窄。但影響下一季業績的最大因素將是利率。然後，當你展望未來時——正如我們所說，進入明年，你將會增加一些較低 ROA 曝險。因此，這將對整體利潤率產生影響。如果遠期利率得以實現，那麼今年利率還會再次下降。因此——然後，這將被我們記入帳簿的新活動和一些固定資產重新定價（尤其是在證券投資組合中）所抵消。

Got it. Okay. And then one follow-up, just related to that on the deposit side. Maybe if you could help us update us on your deposit gathering strategy overall. I know you cited the mid-single-digit deposit growth for '26.

知道了。好的。然後還有一個後續問題，與存款方面有關。或許您能幫我們更新一下您整體的存款策略嗎？我知道你提到了 2026 年存款成長率為個位數中段。

Maybe can you talk about the mix shift that you would expect between interest-bearing and noninterest-bearing. And what businesses do you see driving the bulk of growth? It looks like you saw a pretty good leg up in your deposit volume through the wealth management business, for example, this quarter. So I just want to see if we can get some color there in terms of the businesses that are driving the growth.

您能否談談您預期中計息資產和非計息資產之間的組合變化？你認為哪些產業將推動大部分成長？例如，本季您的財富管理業務存款額似乎有了相當大的成長。所以我想看看我們能否了解一下推動成長的企業的具體情況。

Yes. No, it's going to be a bit of each of them, and I'll kind of go through each. But on the Wealth Management side, it's continuing to focus the lending and banking products, bringing focus to those across the adviser base that we've got. And that will -- and we're seeing good uptake there. And so that will continue to grow.

是的。不，我會把它們各說一點，然後逐一介紹。但在財富管理方面，我們將繼續專注於貸款和銀行產品，並將重點放在我們現有的顧問團隊中。而且這樣做確實有效——我們看到這方面反應很好。因此，這種趨勢還會持續成長。

Won't be a straight line, but it -- but we do expect to see some growth in the wealth business. Now that we can compete more effectively with the asset cap gone on the commercial side, you're seeing good loan growth there.

不會是一條直線，但我們確實預期財富管理業務會有一些成長。現在商業貸款方面取消了資產上限，我們可以更有效地參與競爭，因此貸款業務也出現了良好的成長。

And on the commercial side, those are going to be mostly interest-bearing, even though there'll be some noninterest-bearing component of it with it. And so that's why in my remarks, I said, you'll see a little bit more interest-bearing than noninterest-bearing because you'll see more growth on the commercial side. And then on the consumer side, it's just continuing to see better execution across both our digital, marketing and branch channels to drive more checking account growth and deposit growth there. So it's really going to be a function of executing across each of the businesses there.

在商業方面，這些貸款大多會產生利息，儘管其中也會包含一些不產生利息的部分。所以這就是為什麼我在演講中說，你會看到計息貸款比不計息貸款多一些，因為你會看到商業方面有更多的成長。在消費者方面，我們將繼續在數位、行銷和分行管道方面取得更好的執行效果，以推動支票帳戶和存款的成長。所以，這其實取決於各個業務部門的執行情況。

Matt O'Connor, Deutsche Bank.

馬特‧奧康納，德意志銀行。

I was wondering if you could just talk about the environment for commercial real estate, broadly speaking. I mean you mentioned on credit, obviously, past the worst, you have a lot of reserves, could have some lumpy losses. But the industry and you grew loans for the first time in a really long time this quarter. And there's just been a lot of like anecdotal kind of articles out there in the media talking about parts of CRE kind of coming back. So just wondering how meaningful recovery you guys think this could be and how well levered you are to that?

我想請您大致談談商業不動產的環境。我的意思是，你提到了信貸問題，顯然，最糟糕的情況過去之後，你有很多儲備金，可能會出現一些較大的損失。但本季度，該行業和你們的貸款業務在很長一段時間以來首次實現了成長。媒體上有很多零星的文章都在談論商業房地產的某些領域正在復甦。所以我想知道你們認為這次復甦能有多大意義，以及你們在這方面有多大的把握？

Sure. I'll take a shot. And if you look at the commercial real estate book, excluding office for a second, just put that to a side and I'll come back to it. There's been good demand there for a while across a lot of different sectors, whether it's multifamily, industrial, data centers on and on. And so -- and the fundamentals there haven't shifted that much as we go into this year. So we do expect to see some continued demand come through in some of those subsectors.

當然。我來試試看。如果你看一下商業地產方面的書籍，先把辦公大樓排除在外，我稍後再談。一段時間以來，各領域對該地區的需求一直很好，無論是多戶住宅、工業、資料中心等等。所以——而且隨著我們進入今年，基本面並沒有太大變化。因此，我們預計在某些細分領域會看到持續的需求。

I think when you look at office, I think there's where you're definitely seeing stabilization in valuations. But you do have a bifurcation there between really good office space, kind of newer Class A or better space in vibrant cities that are doing really well and demand is up substantially. And you can see that just even through some of the CMBS market executions that have happened over the last number of months. And then -- and then I think on the older inventory and older stock, I think things have stabilized there. And we continue to work through that portfolio. But I think overall, if you look at everything other than kind of the older office stock, there seems to be good demand and activity levels.

我認為，從辦公大樓市場來看，估值確實正在趨於穩定。但這裡確實存在一個分歧，一方面是非常好的辦公空間，另一方面是位於充滿活力的城市中較新的 A 級或更好的辦公空間，這些空間發展勢頭良好，需求也大幅增長。即使從過去幾個月發生的一些 CMBS 市場交易中也可以看出這一點。然後——然後我認為對於較早的庫存和較早的存貨，情況已經穩定下來了。我們將繼續推進該投資組合的工作。但我認為總體而言，除了那些比較老舊的辦公大樓之外，其他所有類型的辦公大樓都存在著良好的需求和活躍度。

Saul Martinez, HSBC.

索爾·馬丁內斯，匯豐銀行。

I just have one as well. Totally get the reluctance to give specific revenue guidance. And as you indicated, a number of the fee line items are tied to market conditions and can vary. But I'm curious what -- if you can just give us some color on what your expectations directionally are for some of the major fee lines, deposit fees, investment advisory, card fees, trading IP.

我也只有一個。完全理解不願給予具體營收預期。正如您所指出的，許多費用項目都與市場情況相關，可能會有所變化。但我很好奇—您能否簡單介紹一下您對一些主要費用項目（存款費、投資諮詢費、信用卡費、交易智慧財產權）的預期方向？

And part of the reason I ask is that if you do look at some of these lines deposits, advisory cards, they're tracking at mid- to high single-digit growth. Banking, there's reasons, obviously, for optimism there, and you mentioned trading, you expect to grow even with some of the headwinds from the offsets to trading-related NII. So it does feel like there is reason to be optimistic here. But just curious if you can -- maybe just give us some color on how to think about these line items and what some of the major drivers are that could move them one way or another.

我之所以這麼問，部分原因是，如果你看一下這些信貸存款、諮詢卡等業務，你會發現它們的成長率都在個位數中高段位。銀行業顯然有理由保持樂觀，你提到了交易業務，即使受到一些不利因素的影響，你也期望交易相關淨利息收入能夠成長。所以感覺我們有理由保持樂觀。但我很好奇，如果您可以的話——能否給我們一些關於如何看待這些項目以及可能影響它們走向的主要驅動因素的細節說明？

Yes, sure. So if you start with the biggest one, which is investment advisory and other asset-based fees, that's really going to be driven by how the markets hold up.

當然可以。因此，如果從最大的費用——投資諮詢費和其他基於資產的費用——開始來看，這些費用實際上將取決於市場的趨勢。

In the short term.

短期內。

In the short term, yes. And I think as long as the equity markets hold, which is the bigger driver, you also have some impact on fixed income markets there as well. If rates come down, you get a benefit as asset prices go up. But you will see the equity markets in the short run drive that the most. So as long as we have a pretty stable growing market there, I think you should be able to model that relatively easily. And the jumping off point this year is much better than where we entered last year. So that -- I think that's what you were alluding to.

短期內，是的。我認為，只要股票市場保持穩定（這是更大的驅動因素），那麼也會對固定收益市場產生一定影響。如果利率下降，資產價格上漲，你就會受益。但你會發現，短期內股市對此的驅動效果最大。所以只要那裡的市場保持穩定成長，我認為你應該能夠相對容易地建立模型。今年的起點比去年好得多。所以——我想這就是你暗示的意思。

When you look at then deposit-related fees and card fees, I'll kind of lump them together. It's really going to be a function of just the overall macro picture in the economy. And at this point, what we're seeing in what's happening across the consumer base is just very consistent activity. And so I think as long as that continues, that should support those fee lines. And between the three of those, that's over half of the fee line just right there alone.

當你查看存款相關費用和信用卡費用時，我會把它們歸為一類。這實際上取決於整體宏觀經濟情勢。目前，我們看到消費者群體整體呈現非常一致的活躍度。所以我認為，只要這種情況持續下去，就應該能夠支撐這些收費項目。光是這三項加起來，就佔了費用總額的一半以上。

And then I think investment banking fees it appears like I think everybody thinks that we're going to have a pretty active deal make, both on the M&A side, but also sort of the -- maybe even more active equity capital markets outlook as well. And so -- and then the debt market, I think, has been holding up quite well over the last couple of years.

然後我認為投資銀行費用似乎表明，大家普遍認為我們將迎來相當活躍的交易，無論是在併購方面，還是在股權資本市場方面——前景可能更加活躍。因此——我認為，在過去幾年裡，債務市場一直表現得相當不錯。

And so assuming that's the case, and given our investments, we should be able to continue to grind out share gains as we go over time. And then the last one I'll sort of maybe highlight is just trading. Again, we talked about it earlier, but you will have an impact of rates come down, you'll have higher NII in the markets business, lower fees, but we should continue to be able to grow overall revenues in the markets business. So I think as long as the kind of macro picture sort of holds, then it should be quite constructive for a lot of the fee lines as we look at them.

因此，假設情況確實如此，考慮到我們的投資，我們應該能夠隨著時間的推移繼續穩步提升市場份額。最後我想重點談談交易。我們之前也討論過這個問題，利率下降會產生影響，市場業務的淨利息收入會更高，費用會更低，但我們應該能夠繼續提高市場業務的整體收入。所以我認為，只要宏觀情況保持不變，那麼當我們審視許多費用項目時，應該會很有建設性。

Chris McGratty, KBW.

克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

Mike, on the consumer deposit growth, just to follow back on the prior question. It was about 1% year-on-year. I'm interested now that rates have come down and excess liquidity has kind of been pulled. Like is this a GDP or GDP plus opportunity for deposit growth over the medium term?

麥克，關於消費者存款成長，我只是想接著之前的問題再問。年增幅約為1%。現在利率下降，過剩流動性基本上也被收回，我對此很感興趣。這指的是GDP成長，還是GDP加上中期存款成長機會？

Yes. I mean, look, I think for us, it's now that we're able to kind of more aggressively in a much more front-footed way, deploy marketing and get our branch system to be more productive, hopefully, over time, we'll be able to see outsized growth there. But I do expect that we'll -- that will not be kind of a linear path up. But I do expect us to see some growth in the consumer deposit base. And I think you'll start to see that relationship between deposits and GDP start to move in sync again hopefully over time. It's been a lit bit broken --

是的。我的意思是，你看，我認為對我們來說，現在我們能夠以更積極主動的方式開展行銷活動，並提高分支機構的效率，希望隨著時間的推移，我們能夠看到那裡的巨大增長。但我確實預計，這不會是一條線性上升的道路。但我預期消費者存款基礎會有所成長。我認為隨著時間的推移，存款與GDP之間的關係有望再次開始同步發展。它有點壞了。--

Just to be clear like remember our -- we believe based upon who we -- what the franchise is and the benefits that we bring that we should be able to grow faster than the market over time. And we're working hard to reinvigorate the business, which was really hard hit by all the issues that we've been -- that we've gone through, not just the actual cap itself, but like how it limited the things that we could do internally. And so that's something that you build up over a period of time. But we think the opportunity is to be able to, over time, grow faster than the market and to take share in a profitable way.

需要明確的是，請記住我們——我們相信，基於我們是誰——特許經營的性質以及我們帶來的好處，隨著時間的推移，我們應該能夠比市場增長得更快。我們正在努力重振業務，這項業務確實受到了我們所經歷的所有問題的嚴重打擊——不僅僅是實際的上限本身，還有它如何限制了我們在內部可以做的事情。所以這是需要時間慢慢累積的。但我們認為，機會在於隨著時間的推移，能夠比市場成長得更快，並以獲利的方式獲得市場份額。

Great. And then just coming back to the -- I think you said 185 coverage bankers over the past two years. Is the pace of -- are the opportunities for hiring in '26 greater or less? Is it slowing? Any coverage or any covering kind of company question that would be great.

偉大的。然後回到——我想你說過過去兩年有 185 位報道銀行家。2026 年的招募速度－招募機會是增加了還是減少了？它的速度在減慢嗎？任何關於保險範圍或任何相關公司承保方面的問題都歡迎提出。

It's about the same per year.

每年大致相同。

Which, again, I would just say, as we think about it, these efforts that we have underway, these are multiyear plans where we've looked at whether it's geographies, industry coverage within our CIB is what you want to accomplish in a year, you want to see the payoff and then we'll keep going. And so we still see materially more opportunities to grow in both the commercial bank and the corporate investment bank as well as in our consumer banking system for a whole bunch of different reasons.

我再次強調，我們仔細思考後會發現，我們正在進行的這些努力都是多年計劃，我們已經考慮過，無論是地域範圍，還是我們企業及投資銀行的行業覆蓋範圍，我們一年內想要實現的目標是什麼，我們想要看到回報，然後我們將繼續努力。因此，出於各種不同的原因，我們仍然看到商業銀行、企業投資銀行以及我們的消費銀行體系中存在著更多的實質成長機會。

Gerard Cassidy, RBC Capital Markets.

Gerard Cassidy，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Guys, when we take a look at your average balance sheet on slide 7 in the supplement, you show that you've had some nice growth, obviously year-over-year in the balance sheet. And the funding of that, you've had real good strong growth in the Fed funds purchase and short-term borrowings on a year-over-year basis. Can you share with us your thinking, the strategy of using that source of funding to grow the balance sheet as we go forward and what the outlook could be for this going in 2026?

各位，當我們查看補充資料第 7 頁中你們的平均資產負債表時，可以看到你們的資產負債表顯示出了不錯的增長，顯然是同比增長。而資金來源方面，聯邦基金購買和短期借款年比均實現了強勁成長。您能否與我們分享您的想法，即如何利用這項資金來源來擴大資產負債表，以及 2026 年的前景如何？

Yes, Gerard, that's just funding the growth in the markets business, very similar to the way the other investment banks do it. So there's nothing too exciting there, to be honest. And when we came out of -- and I think we mentioned this may be coming out of the second quarter, we did move some funding to the repo line that we had internalized while the asset cap is in place. And so this is just normal funding of the markets business.

是的，傑拉德，那隻是為市場業務的成長提供資金，與其他投資銀行的做法非常相似。說實話，那裡沒什麼太令人興奮的事情。當我們走出——我想我們提到這可能是在第二季度——我們確實將一些資金轉移到了我們在資產上限生效期間內部化的回購信貸額度中。所以，這只是市場業務正常的融資方式。

Very good. And then just a quick follow-up. You talked a lot about the success you're having in investing in Investment Banking and markets and you just commented about the hiring if it's about the same or more challenging. When you look at the team on the field, I think there was a Financial Times article, Charlie, talking about some areas that you may want to add to. But when you look at this team, are you 75% there in terms of you got all the people you need? Or where do you stand on both markets and then Investment Banking?

非常好。然後還有一個簡短的後續問題。你談到了很多關於你在投資銀行和市場領域的成功，你也評論了招聘是否和投資銀行一樣具有挑戰性，還是更具挑戰性。當你觀察場上的球隊時，我想《金融時報》上有一篇文章，查理，談到了你可能需要補充的一些方面。但當你審視這支隊伍時，你是否已經完成了75%的工作，也就是擁有了所有需要的人員？或者，您對這兩個市場以及投資銀行業務的立場是什麼？

I would say, well, first of all, I think what's really important is just the quality of the people that we've hired, not just the numbers. And so I didn't say that before. But what our team has done just a great job of attracting some of the most talented people from great institutions out there that have just done a great job of building talent. So we're not just focused on growing the numbers. It's about the quality and then making sure that we're seeing the payoff.

我想說，首先，我認為真正重要的是我們所僱用人員的素質，而不僅僅是人數。所以之前我沒說過這句話。但我們的團隊做得非常出色，他們吸引了來自優秀機構的一些最有才華的人才，而這些機構在人才培養方面也做得非常出色。所以我們不僅僅關注數量增長。關鍵在於質量，然後確保我們能看到回報。

Listen, I think it's -- I don't really want to put a percent number on it because it's a journey. And we've seen -- as we've added resources this year, it's somewhat of a moving target because other companies aren't standing still either, and they've grown their resources as well. And so I think let's just -- we'll try and provide a little bit more context as time goes on to give you a sense. But I'm just kind of going to leave it at that, that we think the opportunity to continue to add resources to see the continued growth is as strong as it's ever been for us.

聽著，我覺得──我不太想用百分比來衡量，因為這是一個過程。我們看到——隨著我們今年增加資源，這是一個不斷變化的目標，因為其他公司也沒有停滯不前，它們也增加了資源。所以我想，隨著時間的推移，我們會盡量提供更多背景信息，讓大家有個概念。但我只想說，我們認為繼續增加資源以實現持續成長的機會對我們來說比以往任何時候都更有利。

All right. Thanks, everyone. We appreciate the questions. We'll talk to you next time. Bye.

好的。謝謝大家。感謝您提出的問題。我們下次再聊。再見。

Thank you all for your participation on today's conference call. At this time, all parties may disconnect.

感謝各位參加今天的電話會議。此時，所有參與者均可中斷連線。