富國銀行 (WFC) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, and thank you for joining the Wells Fargo third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's call is being recorded.

歡迎各位參加富國銀行 2025 年第三季財報電話會議，感謝您的參與。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的通話將會被錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to John Campbell, Director of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin the conference.

現在我將把電話交給投資者關係總監約翰·坎貝爾。先生，您可以開始會議了。

Morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our call today where our CEO, Charlie Scharf; and our CFO, Mike Santomassimo, will discuss third-quarter results and answer your questions. This call is being recorded. Before we get started, I would like to remind you that our third-quarter earnings materials, including the release, financial supplement and presentation deck are available on our website at wellsfargo.com. I'd also like to caution you that we may make forward-looking statements during today's call that are subject to risks and uncertainties.

各位早安。感謝各位參加今天的電話會議，我們的執行長查理·沙夫和首席財務官邁克·桑托馬西莫將討論第三季度業績並回答各位的問題。本次電話會議正在錄音。在正式開始之前，我想提醒各位，我們第三季度的收益報告資料，包括新聞稿、財務補充文件和演示文稿，都可以在我們的網站 wellsfargo.com 上找到。同時，我也想提醒各位，我們在今天的電話會議中可能會做出一些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在風險和不確定性。

Factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are detailed in our SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed today containing our earnings materials. Information about any non-GAAP financial measures referenced, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures, can also be found in our SEC filings and the earnings materials available on our website.

可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異的因素已在我們的美國證券交易委員會文件中詳細說明，包括今天提交的包含我們收益材料的 8-K 表格。有關文中提及的任何非GAAP財務指標的信息，包括這些指標與GAAP指標的調節表，也可以在我們的SEC文件中以及我們網站上提供的收益資料中找到。

I will now turn the call over to Charlie.

現在我將把通話轉給查理。

Thanks, John. I'm going to use my time slightly differently today on the call and talk very briefly about the quarter, then I will spend more time talking about our growth opportunities, what is different with the lifting of the asset cap, our capital levels and how we see our path to higher returns over time. I will refer to the presentation posted on our website. I'll then turn the call over to Mike to review third-quarter results in more detail before we take your questions.

謝謝你，約翰。今天在電話會議上，我將稍微改變一下我的時間安排，先簡要地談談本季度的情況，然後再花更多時間談談我們的成長機會、資產上限取消後的變化、我們的資本水平以及我們如何看待未來實現更高回報的路徑。我將參考我們網站上發布的簡報。接下來，我會把電話交給麥克，讓他更詳細回顧第三季業績，然後再回答大家的問題。

Let me start by saying we're very happy with our third-quarter results. The momentum we are building across our businesses drove strong financial results, with net income and diluted earnings per share both up from a year ago and the second quarter. Our results benefited from the investments we have made in prior years and we are now on a path to grow more broadly with the lifting of the asset cap. Revenue increased 5% from a year ago, with growth in both net interest income and strong fee-based revenue.

首先我想說，我們對第三季的業績非常滿意。我們在各項業務中累積的勢頭推動了強勁的財務業績，淨收入和稀釋後每股收益均較去年同期和第二季度有所增長。我們的業績得益於前幾年的投資，隨著資產上限的取消，我們現在正走上更廣泛發展的道路。營收較上年同期成長 5%，淨利息收入和手續費收入均成長。

I pointed out the investments we've been making in our businesses on prior calls and the early signs of the positive impact on our results and the benefits were cleared this quarter with investment banking fees increasing 25% from a year ago. Loan growth accelerated in the third quarter, increasing from both the second quarter and a year ago.

我在先前的電話會議上指出了我們對業務的投資，以及這些投資對我們業績產生的積極影響的早期跡象，而本季度投資銀行費用比去年同期增長了 25%，這些收益已經顯現出來。第三季貸款成長加快，較第二季和去年同期均有所成長。

Our credit performance was strong and continued to improve, and we increased our capital return, raising our common stock dividend and doubling our share repurchases from the second quarter. I want to spend the rest of my time today addressing the topics I mentioned earlier.

我們的信貸表現強勁且持續改善，我們提高了資本回報，提高了普通股股息，並將股票回購規模從第二季開始翻了一番。今天剩下的時間，我想用來討論我之前提到的那些主題。

First, a refresher on what our management team has accomplished since late 2019. We have talked much about our success in closing 13 regulatory orders and the removal of the asset cap by the Federal Reserve, and I want to reiterate the importance of continuing to build on that work and sustain our new culture.

首先，回顧自 2019 年底以來，我們的管理團隊所取得的成就。我們已經多次談到我們在完成 13 項監管指令以及聯準會取消資產上限方面的成功，我想重申繼續在此基礎上繼續努力並保持我們新的文化的重要性。

But I want to shift the conversation by reminding everyone that while we are incredibly proud of our success, we have worked in parallel to transform and reposition the company by changing our business mix and how we manage the company, and this has resulted in significantly improved returns and margins.

但我希望透過提醒大家，來轉換一下話題。雖然我們為自己所取得的成功感到無比自豪，但我們也一直在同步努力，透過改變業務組合和公司管理方式來轉型和重新定位公司，這帶來了顯著提高的回報和利潤率。

Wells Fargo, without the regulatory constraints and with the changes we have made, is a significantly more attractive company than what we were several years ago, and we believe this positions us for continued higher growth and returns.

擺脫了監管限制，加上我們所做的改變，富國銀行比幾年前更具吸引力，我們相信這將使我們繼續獲得更高的成長和回報。

I'm going to be referring to the slides from our presentation deck, starting with slide 3. We love the fact that we are a US focused bank that benefits from the strength of our nation's economy and markets. More than 95% of our revenues are from US consumers and US-based companies. Our global presence exists because of the strength we have in this country.

我將參考我們簡報中的投影片，從第 3 張投影片開始。我們很自豪自己是一家專注於美國的銀行，能夠受益於美國經濟和市場的強勁發展。我們95%以上的收入來自美國消費者和美國公司。我們之所以能擁有全球影響力，是因為我們在這個國家擁有強大的實力。

And while we have opportunities to grow our wholesale businesses outside the US, our primary opportunity and focus is growing all businesses domestically. The US is and will continue to be the most attractive market in financial services and is a US-focused bank. We will continue to benefit from the strength of the US.

雖然我們有機會在美國以外發展批發業務，但我們的主要機會和重點是在國內發展所有業務。美國現在是並將繼續是金融服務領域最具吸引力的市場，而這是一家專注於美國的銀行。我們將繼續受益於美國的強大實力。

Scale matters and, as you can see on slide 4, we have it in all of our businesses. In many of our businesses, such as consumer banking, wealth management, corporate banking and commercial banking, we are top three. In these businesses, there is generally a gap between the top two or three and the rest of the market.

規模很重要，正如你在第 4 張幻燈片中看到的那樣，我們所有的業務都做到了這一點。在我們的許多業務領域，例如消費者銀行、財富管理、公司銀行和商業銀行，我們都名列前三名。在這些行業中，前兩到三名企業與其餘企業之間通常存在市場差距。

In other businesses, such as credit card, investment banking and markets, while we're not top three yet, we have enough scale to compete with the top three and have competitive advantages that we think support the ability to increase our share profitably.

在其他業務領域，例如信用卡、投資銀行和市場，雖然我們還沒有躋身前三，但我們擁有足夠的規模與前三名競爭，並且擁有我們認為能夠盈利地增加市場份額的競爭優勢。

Turning to slide 5. We have simplified and refined our business mix by selling or scaling back to many businesses. We sold or exited businesses that generated approximately $5 billion of annual revenue but these businesses were either not poor or did not produce high enough risk-adjusted returns over time, and we have targeted our investments in areas with higher growth and returns.

翻到第5張投影片。我們透過出售或縮減許多業務，簡化並優化了我們的業務組合。我們出售或退出了年收入約 50 億美元的企業，但這些企業要么經營狀況不佳，要么隨著時間的推移，其風險調整後的收益不夠高，因此我們將投資重點放在了增長和回報更高的領域。

While the asset cap constrained our ability to grow loans, deposits and security financing and inventories, our strategic review uncovered areas across the company where we had room to invest to serve consumers and businesses more broadly and build our fee-based revenues without the need to grow the balance sheet.

雖然資產上限限制了我們增加貸款、存款、證券融資和庫存的能力，但我們的策略審查發現，公司內部有很多領域我們可以投資，從而更廣泛地服務消費者和企業，並在無需擴大資產負債表的情況下建立我們的收費收入。

Moving to slide 6. We have made progress diversifying our revenue mix and growing fee streams and now consistently see the benefits of our refined business mix and strategic investments. Several of the businesses we have invested in are listed on this slide, and revenue from these businesses alone increased almost $5 billion since 2019. More importantly, we can now more aggressively and broadly pursue growth in other areas of the company.

切換到第6張投影片。我們在實現收入結構多元化和增加收費來源方面取得了進展，現在我們不斷看到我們優化的業務組合和策略性投資帶來的好處。這張投影片列出了我們投資的幾家企業，光是這些企業的收入自 2019 年以來就增加了近 50 億美元。更重要的是，我們現在可以更積極、更廣泛地追求公司其他領域的成長。

As you can see on slide 7, we have also improved returns by reducing expenses. But at the same time, we've increased our investment in risk and control, infrastructure and our strategic growth initiatives. In total, expenses have declined $3.6 billion since 2019. And just a reminder that I have said that we spent approximately $2.5 billion more on control and regulatory work in 2024 than when I arrived at Wells Fargo.

如您在投影片 7 中看到的，我們也透過降低成本提高了收益。但同時，我們也增加了對風險控制、基礎設施和策略成長計畫的投資。自 2019 年以來，總支出減少了 36 億美元。再次提醒大家，我曾說過，2024 年我們在控制和監管工作上的支出比我剛到富國銀行時增加了約 25 億美元。

By the end of this year, we expect to have achieved approximately $15 billion of gross expense saves, and this has funded the large increases in spend to make us a better and stronger company and allowed us to reduce overall expenses.

到今年年底，我們預計將節省約 150 億美元的總支出，這筆資金用於大幅增加支出，使我們成為一家更好、更強大的公司，並使我們能夠降低整體支出。

Savings have come from across our businesses, but let me highlight just a few examples. Our head count has declined from a peak of approximately 276,000 in the second-quarter 2020 to approximately 211,000 in the third-quarter 2025, down 24% with headcount reductions [every] quarter for five years. I want to note that this was not driven by business sales or outsourcing, but in fact, real improvement in our efficiency. We've also significantly reduced how much we spend on professional and outside services as well as non-branch real estate.

節省的成本來自我們各個業務部門，但讓我重點舉幾個例子。我們的員工人數已從 2020 年第二季的約 276,000 人高峰下降到 2025 年第三季的約 211,000 人，下降了 24%，並且在接下來的五年裡每個季度都減少了員工人數。我想指出，這並非由業務銷售或外包所驅動，而是我們效率的真正提升。我們也大幅減少了在專業服務和外部服務以及非分支機構房地產方面的支出。

Turning to slide 8. We have made progress in proving returns, with a goal to achieve best-in-class returns for each segment over time. In the fourth quarter of 2020, our ROTCE was 8% and we wanted to put a stake in the ground by setting what we thought was an achievable higher return goal of 15%.

翻到第8張幻燈片。我們在證明收益方面取得了進展，目標是隨著時間的推移，在每個細分市場中實現一流的收益。2020 年第四季度，我們的 ROTCE 為 8%，我們希望透過設定我們認為可以實現的更高回報目標 15% 來確立我們的目標。

We said that this was not our final aspiration and would relook at it after we achieved it. We've made significant progress and are approaching this goal. And while we are proud of our progress, each of our lines of business still have the opportunity to improve further. All should eventually have returns comparable to our best peers, who continually to invest for the long term. And as you can see on this slide, this is not the case in all lines of business.

我們說過，這並非我們的最終目標，我們將在實現目標後再重新考慮。我們取得了顯著進展，並且正在接近這個目標。雖然我們為所取得的進步感到自豪，但我們的每個業務線仍有機會進一步改進。最終，所有投資者都應該獲得與我們最優秀的同行相當的回報，因為他們一直在進行長期投資。正如你在這張投影片上看到的，並非所有產業都是如此。

Our progress will continue to come from both continued efficiencies and the higher revenues driven by our investment in growth. Given our progress and the lifting of the asset cap, we believe now is the time to update our return goal and describe our aspirations.

我們的進步將繼續來自效率的持續提高以及對成長的投資所帶來的更高收入。鑑於我們取得的進展以及資產上限的取消，我們認為現在是時候更新我們的回報目標並闡述我們的願景了。

First, our aspirations. To be the top US consumer and small business bank and wealth manager providing industry-leading deposit, loan, investment and payments products. Also to be the top US bank to businesses of all sizes with the goal of being the top five US investment bank. We expect all of our businesses to eventually generate returns and growth equal to our best competitors, while continuing to invest for the longer term.

首先，我們的願景。成為美國頂尖的消費者和小型企業銀行及財富管理機構，提供業界領先的存款、貸款、投資和支付產品。同時，目標是成為美國面向各種規模企業的頂尖銀行，並躋身美國前五名投資銀行。我們期望我們所有的業務最終都能產生與我們最優秀的競爭對手一樣的回報和成長，同時繼續進行長期投資。

We have the scale necessary in all of these businesses today. We have a strong and disciplined management team that has proven they can execute on our priorities. And with the regulatory constraints lifted, we have more degrees of freedom to grow and achieve our goals.

如今，我們在所有這些業務領域都具備必要的規模。我們擁有一支強大且紀律嚴明的管理團隊，他們已經證明自己能夠執行我們的各項優先事項。隨著監管限制的解除，我們擁有了更大的發展自由度，可以實現我們的目標。

Let me now talk about what has changed since the asset cap was lifted on slide 9. I have consistently said that the lifting of the asset cap would not be a light switch moment where we would immediately expand the balance sheet significantly and change our risk tolerances. Instead, I've said that it would remove the constraints that we have had to grow our balance sheet-intensive businesses and allow us to compete more effectively, as I just outlined.

現在讓我談談自第 9 頁幻燈片中取消資產上限以來發生了哪些變化。我一直強調，取消資產上限不會像打開電燈開關那樣，讓我們立即大幅擴大資產負債表並改變我們的風險承受能力。相反，我曾說過，這將消除我們發展資產負債表密集型業務所面臨的限制，並使我們能夠更有效地參與競爭，正如我剛才概述的那樣。

Having said that, we are now beginning to use this increased capacity and have started to grow our balance sheet. Our total assets at the end of the third quarter were over $2 trillion for the first time in the company's history.

話雖如此，我們現在已經開始利用增加的產能，並開始擴大我們的資產負債表。第三季末，公司總資產首次超過 2 兆美元。

We have grown our trading-related assets in the Corporate and Investment Banking, which are up 15% since the end of 2023. This is a client-focused flow-based business where we serve corporate and institutional investors, most of which have broader relationships with us. We expect this growth to continue as we continue to onboard new clients and accommodate customer trading flows and financing activity without significantly increasing our risk profile.

我們在企業和投資銀行領域的交易相關資產有所成長，自 2023 年底以來成長了 15%。這是一個以客戶為中心、以資金流動為基礎的業務，我們服務於企業和機構投資者，其中大多數與我們有更廣泛的合作關係。我們預計，隨著我們不斷吸收新客戶，滿足客戶的交易流量和融資活動，同時又不顯著增加我們的風險狀況，這種成長動能將持續下去。

We have not actively grown consumer deposits and we both limited and at a times reduced commercial and corporate deposits due to the asset cap. Within consumer and small business banking, we are now focused on reaccelerating checking account growth through enhanced marketing and expansion of digital account openings.

我們沒有積極增加消費者存款，而且由於資產上限的限制，我們限制了商業和企業存款，有時甚至減少了商業和企業存款。在消費者和小型企業銀行業務方面，我們現在專注於透過加強行銷和擴大數位帳戶開戶來重新加速支票帳戶的成長。

Average deposit balances have now grown year over year for three consecutive quarters. We are also investing in our branch network and remain on track to have over half of our branches refurbished by the end of this year. Total consumer check account openings and branch-based credit card openings grew during the first nine months of 2025 compared to a year ago.

平均存款餘額已連續三個季度年增。我們也在投資我們的分支機構網絡，並預計在今年年底前完成一半以上分支機構的翻新。2025 年頭九個月，消費者支票帳戶開戶總數和銀行分行信用卡開戶總數均較去年同期成長。

We have highlighted in the past the biggest opportunity in our consuming lending business [as] credit cards. We've been making enhancements to our product offerings over the past several years, which has started to increase the size of our credit card portfolio, and new accounts grew 9% during the first nine months of 2025 compared to a year ago.

我們過去曾強調，消費貸款業務中最大的機會在於信用卡。過去幾年，我們一直在改進我們的產品，這使得我們的信用卡產品組合規模不斷擴大，2025 年前九個月的新帳戶數量比上年同期增長了 9%。

We are focused on better penetrating the consumer and wealth management client base and are seeing progress. Just as a reminder, growing credit card portfolios are a drag on earnings and returns until approximately the third year before starting to add to earnings.

我們致力於更好地滲透消費者和財富管理客戶群，並且已經看到了進展。需要提醒的是，不斷增長的信用卡組合會在大約第三年開始增加收益之前，對收入和回報造成拖累。

Over the life of the portfolio, they have strong returns as long as spend, balances and credit results are in line with expectations, and this is consistent with what we are seeing. So we are confident that this will become more accretive to our results.

在投資組合的整個生命週期內，只要支出、餘額和信貸結果符合預期，它們就能獲得強勁的回報，這與我們目前所看到的情況一致。因此我們相信這將對我們的業績產生更大的正面影響。

Within Commercial Banking, with the asset cap lifted, we are now focused on growing deposits through our Global Payments and liquidity business through targeted calling efforts and improved product and digital capabilities. More broadly, we've targeted 19 high-density markets for growth where we have less market share than other parts of the country. While our hiring is not complete, we have hired 160 coverage bankers over the last two years and are beginning to see increased production from this new group.

在商業銀行領域，隨著資產上限的取消，我們現在專注於透過全球支付和流動性業務，透過有針對性的電話行銷和改進的產品及數位化能力來增加存款。更廣泛地說，我們已將目標鎖定在 19 個高密度市場，以實現成長，而我們在這些市場的份額低於該國其他地區。雖然我們的招募工作尚未完成，但在過去兩年裡，我們已經招募了 160 名客戶經理，並且開始看到這個新團隊的表現有所提升。

We have also been investing to grow our corporate and investment bank. We're using our competitive advantages, including decades long, deep relationships with large corporates and middle market companies, a complete product set, significant existing credit exposure, strong risk discipline, and the capacity and resilience to support our clients and invest through cycles.

我們也一直在投資發展我們的企業和投資銀行業務。我們正在利用我們的競爭優勢，包括與大型企業和中型市場公司長達數十年的深厚關係、完整的產品組合、大量的現有信貸敞口、強大的風險控制能力，以及支持客戶和在周期中投資的能力和韌性。

We have driven growth through investments and talent. Since 2019, we have hired over 125 managing directors across corporate and investment banking. These investments have translated into real growth. In Investment Banking, we have gained over 120 basis points of share in the US since 2022, the most of any investment bank.

我們透過投資和人才推動了成長。自 2019 年以來，我們在企業和投資銀行領域聘請了超過 125 位董事總經理。這些投資已經轉化為實際成長。自 2022 年以來，我們在投資銀行領域的市佔率在美國成長了 120 多個基點，是所有投資銀行中成長幅度最大的。

In M&A, we are winning increasingly bigger and more complex assignments. We recently advised Union Pacific's $85 billion acquisition of Norfolk Southern, the largest announced deal of 2025 so far. When you look more broadly at the industrial sector, of the top M&A transactions that have either been announced or closed in 2025, Wells Fargo has advised on half of them. To help drive growth in our Wealth and Investment Management business, we launched Wells Fargo Premier, helping us to better serve our affluent clients.

在併購領域，我們贏得了規模越來越大、越來越複雜的專案。我們最近為聯合太平洋鐵路公司以 850 億美元收購諾福克南方鐵路公司提供了諮詢服務，這是 2025 年迄今為止宣布的最大一筆交易。如果更廣泛地看工業領域，在 2025 年已宣布或已完成的頂級併購交易中，富國銀行曾為其中一半提供諮詢服務。為了推動財富和投資管理業務的成長，我們推出了 Wells Fargo Premier，幫助我們更好地服務富裕客戶。

We are starting to see benefits with net investment flows into Premier up 47% during the first nine months of this year. The opportunities remain significant. We estimate that our existing bank customers have trillions and assets at other financial institutions and we are not fully meeting the lending, deposit and payment needs of our existing wealth clients.

我們開始看到成效，今年前九個月流入 Premier 的淨投資額成長了 47%。機會依然巨大。我們估計，我們現有的銀行客戶在其他金融機構擁有數兆美元的資產，而我們未能充分滿足現有財富客戶的貸款、存款和支付需求。

And in our wealth advisory channels, we've been investing to improve the adviser and client experience, including making improvements to our independent platform, which has helped to increase adviser retention and the quality of the financial advisers we've been able to recruit.

在我們的財富諮詢管道中，我們一直在投資改善顧問和客戶的體驗，包括改進我們的獨立平台，這有助於提高顧問的留存率和我們能夠招募到的財務顧問的品質。

Adviser attrition has declined every quarter this year. And you can see on slide 10 that we are now targeting a 17% to 18% ROTCE over the medium term, and managing to a 10% to 10.5% CET1 ratio. We believe our ability to grow the balance sheet after years of the asset cap constraint, the opportunities I've discussed to grow in each of our businesses, and our excess capital position should be catalysts for continued improved returns over time.

今年以來，顧問流失率每季都在下降。您可以在第 10 頁幻燈片中看到，我們現在的目標是中期內實現 17% 至 18% 的 ROTCE，並努力實現 10% 至 10.5% 的 CET1 比率。我們相信，在經歷了多年的資產上限限制之後，我們擴大資產負債表的能力、我之前討論過的我們各項業務的成長機會，以及我們充裕的資本狀況，應該會成為我們持續提高回報的催化劑。

Our new ROTCE target is obviously dependent on a variety of factors, including interest rates, the broader macroeconomic environment and the regulatory environment. This is not our final goal but another stop along the way to achieve best-in-class returns by businesses and, ultimately, our returns should be higher than this target.

我們新的 ROTCE 目標顯然取決於多種因素，包括利率、更廣泛的宏觀經濟環境和監管環境。這不是我們的最終目標，而是實現企業一流回報的另一個階段，最終，我們的回報應該高於這個目標。

Our confidence in reaching this range is driven by several factors, including our commercial businesses are already achieving industry-leading returns, but will be more sizable as we continue to benefit from our growth investments. Our consumer businesses are currently generating returns below the industry. We've made good progress on transforming and simplifying our home lending business and the remaining actions should generate a higher return business than we see today. I spoke earlier of the negative impact on our financial results of growing our card business in the early years of investment. But as these vintages mature, we expect our card business to drive increased returns.

我們有信心實現這一目標，這主要得益於幾個因素，包括我們的商業業務已經取得了行業領先的回報，而且隨著我們繼續從成長投資中受益，規模還會更大。我們目前的消費品業務收益低於行業平均。我們在改造和簡化房屋貸款業務方面取得了良好進展，剩餘的措施應該會帶來比現在更高的業務回報。我之前談過，在投資初期發展信用卡業務會對我們的財務表現產生負面影響。但隨著這些年份葡萄酒的成熟，我們預期信用卡業務將帶來更高的回報。

In addition, as we now seek to grow Consumer, Small and Business banking, the increased returns in this business should also contribute to higher returns. Many of these opportunities to drive higher returns through our business are distinctive to Wells Fargo, given the constraints we were under for many years.

此外，隨著我們尋求發展消費者、小型企業和商業銀行業務，該業務回報的增加也應有助於提高總回報。鑑於我們多年來所受到的限制，我們業務中許多實現更高回報的機會都是富國銀行獨有的。

Finally, we have significant excess capital today. The results of our recent CCAR exam reduced our stress capital buffer by 120 basis points. We are now managing to a CET1 ratio of approximately 10% to 10.5%, and we may have the opportunity to manage our capital levels even lower pending further changes from our regulators. Our CET1 ratio has been at or above 11% for nine quarters, including the third quarter. Even after we grew our balance sheet, increased our common stock dividend, and repurchased $6.1 billion in common stock.

最後，我們目前擁有大量盈餘資金。我們最近的 CCAR 審查結果使我們的壓力資本緩衝減少了 120 個基點。我們目前的CET1比率約為10%至10.5%，如果監管機構做出進一步調整，我們或許有機會將資本水準進一步降低。包括第三季在內，我們的 CET1 比率已連續九個季度保持在 11% 或以上。即使在我們擴大了資產負債表、提高了普通股股息並回購了 61 億美元的普通股之後。

We ended the third quarter with over $30 billion of capital above our regulatory minimums. Not only do we have excess capital today, but we continue to generate more excess capital as well. At today's run rate, we generate over $20 billion in after-tax earnings per year and pay approximately $6 billion annually in dividends. The remaining $14 billion provides us with a lot of additional flexibility to grow our businesses and support our clients and communities, manage through economic volatility and return capital to shareholders. We believe the dividend payout ratio of 30% to 40% is still appropriate. We are at the lower end of that range today. Optimizing our excess capital provides us with the real opportunity to improve our returns.

第三季末，我們的資本比監管最低要求高出 300 億美元以上。我們不僅現在擁有過剩資本，而且還在不斷創造更多的過剩資本。以目前的營運速度，我們每年產生超過 200 億美元的稅後收益，並每年支付約 60 億美元的股息。剩餘的 140 億美元為我們提供了更大的靈活性，使我們能夠發展業務、支持客戶和社區、應對經濟波動並向股東返還資本。我們認為30%至40%的股息支付率仍然是適當的。今天我們處於該範圍的下限。優化利用我們的閒置資金，能為我們提高收益提供真正的機會。

I want to close by turning to slide 11, repeating how excited I am about the momentum we are building and for all the opportunities we have to produce higher growth and returns. We have made meaningful progress, and those actions position us well for the future. I've often said that we have one of the most enviable financial services franchises in the world. We have a breadth of both consumer and commercial products that you can match, and now we are able to compete and do more for our customers and clients and build a best-in-class company. This is what attracted me to Wells Fargo in the first place, and I look forward to executing this next phase of our transformation.

最後，我想翻到第 11 張投影片，再次表達我對我們正在建立的勢頭以及我們擁有的所有實現更高成長和回報的機會感到多麼興奮。我們取得了實質進展，這些措施使我們為未來做好了充分準備。我常說，我們擁有世界上最令人羨慕的金融服務特許經營權之一。我們擁有種類繁多的消費品和商業產品，足以滿足您的需求。現在，我們能夠與競爭對手競爭，為我們的客戶和合作夥伴提供更多服務，並打造一流的公司。這正是我當初被富國銀行吸引的原因，我期待著執行我們轉型的下一個階段。

I will now turn the call over to Mike.

現在我將把通話轉給麥克。

Thank you, Charlie, and good morning, everyone. I'm going to review our financial results starting on slide 13 of our presentation. We earned $5.6 billion in the third quarter, up 9% from a year ago, and diluted earnings per common share was $1.66.

謝謝你，查理，大家早安。我將從簡報的第13頁開始回顧我們的財務表現。第三季度，我們獲利 56 億美元，比去年同期成長 9%，稀釋後每股普通股收益為 1.66 美元。

This strong performance reflects the progress we've been making and the priorities that Charlie highlighted, including investing in our businesses, executing on our efficiency initiatives, maintaining strong credit discipline, and returning excess capital to our shareholders.

這一強勁的業績反映了我們所取得的進步以及查理強調的優先事項，包括投資於我們的業務、執行我們的效率提升計劃、保持嚴格的信貸紀律以及將多餘的資本返還給股東。

Our third-quarter results included $296 million or $0.07 per share of severance expense, primarily for actions we will take this year as we continue to focus on streamlining the company and improving efficiency. We continue to believe we have significant opportunities to get more efficient across the company. The areas of focus are broad-based, including third-party spend, real estate costs, and automation opportunities.

我們第三季的業績包括 2.96 億美元或每股 0.07 美元的遣散費，主要用於我們今年將繼續專注於精簡公司和提高效率而採取的行動。我們仍然相信，公司在各方面都有很大的機會提高效率。重點領域十分廣泛，包括第三方支出、房地產成本和自動化機會。

Turning to slide 15. Net interest income increased $242 million or 2% from the second quarter, driven by one additional day in the quarter, higher loan and investment securities balances, and fixed rate asset repricing which was driven by the turnover of debt securities, residential mortgage loans, and auto loans.

翻到第15張投影片。淨利息收入較第二季增加 2.42 億美元，增幅為 2%，主要原因是本季度多出一天，貸款和投資證券餘額增加，以及固定利率資產重新定價，而固定利率資產重新定價是由債務證券、房屋抵押貸款和汽車貸款的周轉率推動的。

While we grew net interest income, the net interest margin declined 7 basis points from the second quarter driven by growth in lower-yielding trading assets as we deployed more balance sheet after the lifting of the asset cap to support our strategy of growing our markets business. Excluding the impact of the markets business on our net interest margin, would have been flat from the second quarter. Given the growth in our business, we plan to start breaking out markets net interest income next year. I will update you on our expectations for full-year net interest income later in the call.

儘管我們的淨利息收入有所增長，但由於在取消資產上限後，我們部署了更多資產負債表以支持我們發展市場業務的策略，導致低收益交易資產增長，淨息差較第二季度下降了 7 個基點。如果排除市場業務對淨利差的影響，淨利差將與第二季持平。鑑於我們業務的成長，我們計劃明年開始單獨揭露市場淨利息收入。稍後我將在電話會議中向您報告我們對全年淨利息收入的預期。

Moving to slide 16. Both average and period-end loans grew from the second quarter and from a year ago, and we had the strongest linked quarter growth in period-end loan balances in over three years. Average loans increased $18.4 billion from a year ago, driven by growth in commercial and industrial loans in our corporate investment banking business. Securities-based lending and wealth and investment management, credit card and auto loans also grew while residential mortgage loans declined.

切換到第16張投影片。平均貸款額和期末貸款額均較第二季和去年同期有所增長，且期末貸款餘額的季度環比增長是三年多來最強勁的。受企業投資銀行業務中商業和工業貸款成長的推動，平均貸款額比去年同期增加了 184 億美元。證券抵押貸款、財富和投資管理、信用卡和汽車貸款也出現成長，而房屋抵押貸款則出現下降。

Total average consumer loans grew from the second quarter after declining for 10 consecutive quarters as growth in auto and credit card loans more than offset continued declines in residential mortgage loans, driven by our strategy to primarily focus on our existing customers.

在連續 10 個季度下降後，第二季度消費者貸款總額平均有所增長，汽車貸款和信用卡貸款的增長超過了房屋抵押貸款的持續下降，這主要得益於我們以現有客戶為主的策略。

Average deposits declined $1.8 billion from a year ago as we reduced higher cost of corporate treasury deposits by $37.5 billion, which more than offset deposit growth in our businesses. The growth in average deposits from the second quarter reflected an increase in corporate treasury deposits as well as growth in Wealth and Investment Management and Corporate and Investment banking.

由於我們將企業財務存款的較高成本減少了 375 億美元，平均存款比一年前減少了 18 億美元，這抵消了我們業務存款的成長。第二季平均存款的成長反映了企業資金存款的增加，以及財富和投資管理以及企業和投資銀行業務的成長。

Turning to slide 17. Non-interest income increased $810 million or 9% from a year ago. Our results a year ago, including losses from the repositioning of the investment securities portfolio. We had strong growth in the areas where we have focused our investments, including Wealth and Investment Management and investment banking.

翻到第17張幻燈片。非利息收入比上年同期增加 8.1 億美元，增幅為 9%。我們一年前的業績，包括因重新調整證券投資組合而造成的損失。我們在重點投資領域取得了強勁成長，包括財富和投資管理以及投資銀行業務。

You can also see the momentum we are building in driving higher fee-based revenue when you look at our results versus the second quarter. Non-interest income increased 4% as growth across all business-related fee categories more than offset a decline in other non-interest income from the second quarter, which included a gain associated with our acquisition of the remaining interest in our Merchant Services joint venture.

從我們與第二季的業績對比中，您還可以看到我們在推動更高收費收入方面所取得的進展。非利息收入成長了 4%，所有業務相關費用類別的成長超過了第二季其他非利息收入的下降，其中包括與我們收購商家服務合資企業剩餘權益相關的收益。

Turning to expenses on slide 18. Non-interest expense increased $779 million or 6% from a year ago. Let me highlight the three primary drivers. First, as I highlighted earlier, we had $296 million of severance expense in the third quarter. Second, we had $220 million of higher revenue-related compensation expense, predominantly in the Wealth and Investment Management business driven by strong market performance. Finally, we had higher technology and advertising expenses driven by the investments we're making in our businesses to help drive growth.

接下來請看第 18 頁的費用部分。非利息支出較上年同期增加7.79億美元，增幅為6%。讓我重點介紹三個主要驅動因素。首先，正如我之前強調的，我們在第三季產生了 2.96 億美元的遣散費支出。其次，由於強勁的市場表現，財富和投資管理業務的收入相關薪酬支出增加了 2.2 億美元。最後，由於我們對業務進行投資以推動成長，我們的技術和廣告支出也相應增加。

Turning to credit quality on slide 19. Credit performance remained strong and continued to improve. Our net loan charge-off ratio declined 9 basis points from a year ago and 4 basis points from the second quarter. Commercial net loan charge-offs were stable from the second quarter with lower losses in our commercial and industrial loan portfolio, largely offset by higher commercial real estate losses. Office valuations continue to stabilize, and although we expect additional losses, which could be lumpy, they should be well within our expectations.

接下來，我們來看第 19 頁的信用品質。信貸表現依然強勁並持續改善。我們的淨貸款核銷率較上年同期下降了 9 個基點，較第二季下降了 4 個基點。商業淨貸款核銷額與第二季持平，商業和工業貸款組合的損失減少，但商業房地產損失增加，基本上抵消了損失。辦公大樓估值持續趨於穩定，雖然我們預計會有額外的損失（損失幅度可能不大），但應該會在我們的預期之內。

Consumers continue to be resilient as income growth has generally kept pace with increase in inflation and debt levels. Consumer net loan charge-offs declined $58 million from the second quarter to 73 basis points of average loans with improvements across all of our consumer portfolios with the exception of auto. Non-performing assets declined 2% from the second quarter, driven by lower commercial real estate non-accrual loans.

由於收入成長整體上與通貨膨脹和債務水準的成長保持同步，消費者依然保持著韌性。消費者淨貸款核銷額較第二季減少 5,800 萬美元，達到平均貸款額的 73 個基點，除汽車貸款外，我們所有消費者貸款組合均有所改善。不良資產較第二季下降 2%，主要原因是商業房地產非應計貸款減少。

Moving to slide 20. Our allowance for credit losses for loans declined $257 million from the second quarter, driven by a lower allowance reflecting improved credit performance and lower commercial real estate loans, partially offset by higher commercial and industrial, auto and credit card loan balances. Our allowance coverage for our corporate investment banking, commercial real estate office portfolio declined from 11.1% in the second quarter to 10.8% in the third quarter.

轉到第20張投影片。由於信貸表現改善和商業房地產貸款減少，貸款信貸損失準備金較第二季減少了 2.57 億美元，但部分被商業和工業貸款、汽車貸款和信用卡貸款餘額的增加所抵消。我們企業投資銀行、商業不動產辦公投資組合的撥備覆蓋率從第二季的 11.1% 下降到第三季的 10.8%。

Turning to capital and liquidity on slide 21. We maintained our strong capital position with our CET1 ratio at 11%, well above our new CET1 regulatory minimum plus buffers of 8.5%, which became effective in the fourth quarter. We repurchased $6.1 billion of common stock in the third quarter. Given that we are now managing to a CET1 ratio of approximately 10% to 10.5%, we continue to have capacity to repurchase shares, and we currently expect fourth quarter repurchases to be roughly in line with the third quarter. During the first nine months of this year alone, we have reduced average common shares outstanding by 4% and they've declined 24% since 2019.

第 21 頁將討論資本和流動性問題。我們維持了強勁的資本狀況，CET1 比率為 11%，遠高於第四季度生效的新的 CET1 監管最低標準加上緩衝資本 8.5%。第三季度，我們回購了價值 61 億美元的普通股。鑑於我們目前已將 CET1 比率維持在 10% 至 10.5% 左右，我們仍有能力回購股票，目前預計第四季的回購量將與第三季大致持平。光是今年前九個月，我們的普通股平均流通股數量就減少了 4%，自 2019 年以來已減少了 24%。

Moving to our operating segments, starting with Consumer Banking and lending on slide 22. Consumer, Small and Business Banking revenue increased 6% from a year ago, driven by lower deposit costs and higher deposit and loan balances. Results also reflected the transfer of approximately $8 billion of loans and approximately $6 billion of deposits related to certain business customers previously included in the Commercial Banking operating segment.

接下來我們來看我們的營運部門，首先是第 22 頁的消費者銀行和貸款業務。受存款成本降低和存款及貸款餘額增加的推動，消費者、小型企業和商業銀行業務收入比去年同期增加了 6%。業績也反映了與先前包含在商業銀行營運部門中的某些企業客戶相關的約 80 億美元貸款和約 60 億美元存款的轉移。

Home Lending revenue increased 3% from a year ago due to higher mortgage banking fees. We continue to reduce head count in this business, which has declined over 50% since the end of 2022 as we have simplified the business and reduced the amount of third-party mortgage loan service for others by 36% over the same period.

由於抵押貸款銀行手續費上漲，房屋貸款收入比去年同期增加了3%。我們繼續減少該業務部門的員工人數，自 2022 年底以來，員工人數已減少 50% 以上，因為我們簡化了業務，並且在同一時期內將第三方抵押貸款服務量減少了 36%。

Credit card revenue grew 13% from a year ago and included higher loan balances and card fees. While we had strong new account growth, adding over 900,000 accounts in the third quarter, up 49% from a year ago, benefiting from the strong digital engagement and better production in the branches. Auto revenue declined 6% from a year ago due to loan spread compression from previous credit taking actions, but increased 6% from the second quarter, driven by higher loan balances.

信用卡收入比去年同期增加了 13%，其中包括更高的貸款餘額和信用卡手續費。雖然我們第三季新增帳戶數量強勁成長，超過 90 萬個，比去年同期成長 49%，這得益於強勁的數位參與度和分行更好的業績。由於先前的信貸緊縮措施導致貸款利差收窄，汽車業務收入較去年同期下降 6%，但受貸款餘額增加的推動，較上季成長 6%。

Auto originations more than doubled from a year ago and loan balances have grown for two consecutive quarters, reflecting the benefit from being the preferred financing provider for Volkswagen [and Audi] vehicles that began in the second quarter as well as growth in the rest of the portfolio. The decline in personal lending revenue from a year ago was driven by lower loan balances.

汽車貸款發放量比一年前翻了一番多，貸款餘額連續兩個季度增長，這反映出自第二季度以來成為大眾汽車（和奧迪）汽車的首選融資提供商所帶來的好處，以及其他貸款組合的增長。個人貸款收入較上年同期下降的原因是貸款餘額減少。

Turning to Commercial Banking results on slide 23. Revenue was down 9% from a year ago as lower net interest income due to the impact of lower interest rates and lower deposit loan balances was partially offset by growth in non-interest income driven by higher revenue from tax credit investments and equity investments. Average loan balances in the third quarter declined $7.1 billion or 3% from the second quarter, reflecting the transfer of the business customer accounts to Consumer, Small and Business banking.

請看第 23 頁的商業銀行業績。由於利率下降和存款貸款餘額減少導致淨利息收入下降，公司收入同比下降 9%，但稅收抵免投資和股權投資收入增加帶動非利息收入增長，部分抵消了淨利息收入的下降。第三季平均貸款餘額較第二季下降 71 億美元，降幅為 3%，反映出企業客戶帳戶已轉移至消費者、小型企業和商業銀行業務。

Turning to Corporate and Investment Banking on slide 24. Banking revenue grew 1% from a year ago, driven by higher investment banking revenue with strong performance across leveraged finance, equity capital markets and M&A. Our results benefited from the favorable market as well as the investments we've been making to help increase our market share.

請參閱第 24 頁，了解企業和投資銀行業務。銀行業收入較上年同期成長 1%，主要得益於投資銀行收入的成長，槓桿融資、股權資本市場和併購業務表現強勁。我們的業績得益於有利的市場環境以及我們為提高市場佔有率而進行的投資。

Commercial real estate revenue was down 13% from a year ago, driven by lower loan balances, the impact of lower interest rates as well as reduced mortgage banking servicing income resulting from the sale of our non-agency third-party servicing business in the first quarter. Markets revenue grew 6% from a year ago with growth across most asset classes. Average loans grew 8% from a year ago and 4% from the second quarter. Growth reflected higher balances in markets and banking driven by new originations as utilization rates were relatively stable.

由於貸款餘額減少、利率下降以及第一季出售非代理第三方服務業務導致抵押貸款銀行服務收入減少，商業房地產收入比去年同期下降了 13%。市場收入較上年同期成長 6%，大多數資產類別均實現成長。平均貸款額較上年同期成長 8%，較第二季成長 4%。由於使用率相對穩定，市場和銀行業餘金額因新增貸款而增加，這反映了成長。

On slide 25, Wealth and Investment Management revenue increased 8% from a year ago, driven by growth in asset-based fees from increased market valuations as well as higher net interest income due to lower deposit pricing and growth in deposit loan balances.

第 25 頁顯示，財富和投資管理收入比去年同期增加 8%，這主要得益於市場估值增加帶來的資產相關費用增長，以及存款定價降低和存款貸款餘額增長帶來的淨利息收入增加。

Underlying business drivers showed solid momentum from the second quarter in adviser recruiting, net asset flows, loan and deposit balances and total client assets. As a reminder, the majority of WIM advisory assets are priced at the beginning of the quarter, so fourth-quarter results will reflect the higher October 1 market valuations.

從第二季開始，顧問招聘、淨資產流動、貸款和存款餘額以及客戶總資產等基本業務驅動因素均呈現強勁成長勢頭。提醒大家，WIM 的大部分諮詢資產都是在季度初定價的，因此第四季度的業績將反映 10 月 1 日更高的市場估值。

Slide 26 highlights our corporate results. Revenue increased year over year, largely reflecting losses we had a year ago from the repositioning of the investment securities portfolio.

第 26 頁重點介紹了我們的公司業績。營收年增，主要反映了我們一年前因重新調整投資證券組合而造成的損失。

Turning to our 2025 outlook on slide 27. Starting with net interest income, we still expect net interest income for full-year 2025 to be roughly in line with full-year 2024 net interest income of $47.7 billion. Fourth-quarter net interest income is expected to grow from the third quarter to approximately $12.4 billion to $12.5 billion.

接下來請看第 27 頁投影片，了解我們對 2025 年的展望。首先來看淨利息收入，我們仍預期2025年全年淨利息收入將與2024年全年淨利息收入477億美元大致持平。第四季預計第三季淨利息收入將成長至約 124 億美元至 125 億美元。

The drivers of the expected growth in the fourth quarter include continued loan growth, particularly in our commercial credit card and auto portfolios, as well as the benefit of the growth we had in the third quarter, continued repricing of fixed rate assets at higher rates, including the investment securities portfolio, and higher markets net interest income.

第四季預期成長的驅動因素包括貸款持續成長，特別是我們的商業信用卡和汽車貸款組合，以及第三季成長帶來的收益、以較高利率對固定利率資產（包括投資證券組合）進行持續重新定價，以及更高的市場淨利息收入。

Turning to expenses. At the beginning of this year, we expected our full-year 2025 non-interest expense to be approximately $54.2 billion. We currently expect our full-year 2025 non-interest expense to be approximately $54.6 billion and fourth quarter to be approximately $13.5 billion. There are two primary drivers for the increase in our full-year expectation.

接下來談談費用。今年年初，我們預計 2025 年全年非利息支出約為 542 億美元。我們目前預計 2025 年全年非利息支出約為 546 億美元，第四季約為 135 億美元。我們全年預期上調的主要原因有兩個。

First, approximately $200 million of higher severance expense than we expected at the beginning of the year, and we had assumed approximately $100 million in severance expense in the 2025 guidance we provided at the beginning of the year. And as we highlighted, we had $296 million in the third quarter. As we finish our budget for 2026 and plan for our efficiency initiatives next year, we could have additional severance expense in the fourth quarter that is not included in our outlook.

首先，遣散費支出比我們年初預期的要高出約 2 億美元，而我們在年初提供的 2025 年業績指引中假設的遣散費支出約為 1 億美元。正如我們之前提到的，第三季我們的營收為 2.96 億美元。當我們完成 2026 年預算併規劃明年的效率提升措施時，我們可能會在第四季產生額外的遣散費支出，而這並未計入我們的預期。

Second, approximately $200 million of higher revenue-related compensation expense, predominantly in Wealth and Investment Management due to strong market performance in the second half of the year. As a reminder, this is a good thing as higher expenses were more than offset by higher noninterest income.

其次，由於下半年市場表現強勁，財富和投資管理業務的收入相關補償支出增加了約 2 億美元。需要提醒的是，這是一件好事，因為較高的支出被較高的非利息收入完全抵銷了。

In summary, our improved financial performance in the third quarter reflected the consistent progress we've been making on our strategic priorities. Compared with a year ago, we had strong growth in net income and diluted earnings per share increased revenue by 5%, including growth in net interest income and fee-based revenue across both our consumer and commercial businesses, continue to execute on our efficiency initiatives, improved credit performance and reduced common shares outstanding by 6% and increased our dividend.

總而言之，我們第三季財務表現的改善反映了我們在策略重點方面取得的持續進展。與一年前相比，我們的淨收入和稀釋後每股收益實現了強勁增長，收入增長了 5%，其中包括消費者和商業業務的淨利息收入和手續費收入的增長，我們繼續執行效率提升計劃，改善了信貸表現，並將流通在外的普通股減少了 6%，同時提高了股息。

These efforts helped improve our return on tangible common equity to 15.2% in the third quarter. And as Charlie highlighted, we believe we have an achievable path to a return on tangible common equity of 17% to 18% in the medium term.

這些努力幫助我們將第三季的有形普通股股東權益報酬率提高到 15.2%。正如查理所強調的，我們相信，在中期內，我們有可能實現有形普通股回報率達到 17% 至 18%。

We'll now take your questions.

現在開始回答各位的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Ken Usdin, Autonomous Research.

（操作說明）Ken Usdin，自主研究。

Just one clarification. I just wanted to wonder. Your new 17%, 18% medium term, you have a general range of how far out you're thinking for that?

還有一個問題需要澄清。我只是好奇而已。你新的17%、18%的中期目標，你對這個目標的預期範圍大概有多長？

Not really.

並不真地。

Yeah. I mean, Ken, I think it's obviously longer than a year, but like it's a reasonable time frame. I think when you look at sort of medium term, the --

是的。肯，我的意思是，我覺得這顯然不只一年，但這是一個合理的時間範圍。我認為，從中長期來看，--

Yeah. Maybe I'll just circle back on that. I think just one of the things, and I said it in the remarks, we want to be a little careful about is it obviously is dependent on a bunch of things. So I want to make sure that people take that into account. We've got this substantial amount of excess capital. So depending on how the timing with which we choose to manage that can impact it.

是的。或許我之後會再考慮這件事。我認為其中一點，我在發言中也提到過，我們需要謹慎對待，那就是它顯然取決於許多因素。所以我想確保人們考慮到這一點。我們擁有大量閒置資金。所以，我們選擇以何種時機來管理這件事，會對結果產生影響。

And then it's continued positive results in the business. And so I think it's not next year, but we're not looking at any extended period of time either. And also note the comments in there that it's not our final destination relative to our targets either.

然後，業務也持續取得正面成果。所以我覺得應該不是明年，但我們也沒有考慮到任何較長的時間。也要注意其中的評論，那就是這也不是我們實現目標的最終目的地。

Yes. Yeah. Thanks for that, Charlie. Appreciate that. And second question, just, Mike, can I ask you if you allude for a little color on the fourth-quarter NII ramp? You mentioned the fixed repricing. Can you talk to us about what you're still getting on what parts of the book on that fixed repricing?

是的。是的。謝謝你，查理。謝謝。第二個問題，Mike，我可以問一下你能否透露一下第四季度 NII 成長的情況嗎？你提到了固定重新定價。您能否跟我們談談，在固定重新定價的情況​​下，您還能從這本書的哪些部分獲得什麼？

And then secondly, do you expect markets NII to be a meaningful helper to that? And I know you're going to give us more disclosure on that next year, but any help to kind of just help us understand the third to fourth ramp a little deeper would be great. Thank you.

其次，您認為市場淨利息收入（NII）會對此起到有意義的幫助作用嗎？我知道你們明年會就此透露更多信息，但如果能幫助我們更深入地了解第三階段到第四階段的過渡，那就太好了。謝謝。

Yeah. Sure. Ken, I'll try to do that. So if you look at the drivers, there's three or four things that are sort of driving the increase from Q3 to Q4. First is overall markets NII going up. Part of that is driven by some lending that's in there. Part of that is driven by a bunch of actions that we've taken as we've grown the business and you get the benefit as like as rates start to come down on the front end, we've got higher coupons in bonds in like the mortgage book as an example.

是的。當然。肯，我會盡力做到。所以，如果你看一下驅動因素，你會發現有三、四個因素在推動第三季到第四季的成長。首先是整體市場淨利息收入上升。部分原因是由於那裡的一些貸款活動造成的。部分原因是由於我們在業務成長過程中採取的一系列措施，而這些措施也帶來了好處，例如，當利率開始下降時，我們在抵押貸款債券等債券中獲得了更高的票息。

We're doing more hedging off balance sheet and on balance sheet and some of the asset classes, some of our commodity balances are coming down, which are dragged NII. So there's a number of things that underpin the market piece, but that is a component of it.

我們正在進行更多的表外和表內對沖，一些資產類別，我們的一些商品餘額正在下降，這拖累了淨利息收入。因此，支撐市場格局的因素有很多，但這只是其中的一個組成部分。

You then get the benefit of the loan growth we saw in the third quarter plus some more that we expect to see in the fourth quarter. And then you really then -- you get like a little bit of everything else, including the fixed asset repricing that you get there. Part of that is in the securities portfolio, which you can see the AFS yields continue to grind up quarter on quarter. You get a little bit of that in the auto book and some of the other portfolios.

這樣一來，您就能享受到第三季貸款成長的好處，以及我們預計在第四季看到的更多成長。然後你就會真正——你會得到其他所有東西，包括你在那裡獲得的固定資產重新定價。其中一部分體現在證券投資組合中，你可以看到 AFS 收益率繼續逐季緩慢上升。在汽車類書籍和其他一些投資組合中，你會看到一些這樣的內容。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

Ebrahim Poonawala，美國銀行。

Just two questions. One, I think, Charlie, you mentioned $15 billion of expense saves, which were used to fund investments. I think as we think about the ROE improvement from here, just remind us where the opportunities are, either on head count, rightsizing of technology, automation of processes. Like how big is the opportunity on the cost save side that would allow you to continue to invest the way you have while driving improved efficiency, if you could sort of put some framework around that.

就兩個問題。查理，我想你之前提到過節省了 150 億美元的開支，這些錢被用來投資。我認為，當我們思考如何提高淨資產收益率時，請提醒我們有哪些機會，例如人員配置、技術最佳化、流程自動化等等。例如，如果能圍繞這個目標建立一些框架，那麼在成本節約方面，能夠讓你在繼續以現有方式投資的同時提高效率的機會有多大？

Ebrahim, it's Mike. I'll take a shot and Charlie can chime in if he's got anything to add. I think when you think about just the efficiency agenda, as we keep saying over and over, I think we still think there's a significant amount to do across the company. Some of that is people-related and head count related, and you can see our head count just gradually and coming down quarter after quarter after quarter. And we still have more to do there as you start to continue to automate more processes.

易卜拉欣，我是麥克。我先試一試，如果查理有什麼補充，他可以插話。我認為，就效率提升議程而言，正如我們一再強調的那樣，我們仍然認為公司內部有很多工作要做。其中一些與人員和員工人數有關，你可以看到我們的員工人數正在逐步下降，一個季度又一個季度地下降。隨著您開始繼續實現更多流程的自動化，我們在這方面還有更多工作要做。

I think AI sort of helps on some of that for sure. But you'll see that, I think, just continue to get more and more efficient over time on the headcount side. And then there's a whole bunch of other stuff outside of the headcount, whether it's third-party spend, technology coming off over time, you've got more real estate costs coming down. So there's a whole significant amount of things that sort of will continue to kind of grind down over time.

我認為人工智慧肯定在某些方面有所幫助。但我認為，你會發現，隨著時間的推移，我們在人員配置方面會越來越有效率。除了員工人數之外，還有很多其他因素，例如第三方支出、技術發展以及房地產成本的下降。所以有很多事情會隨著時間的推移而逐漸減弱。

And then I think each year, we'll decide on the investment side of how much we want to redeploy back into investments based on our ability to execute there. And we'll give you sort of guidance as we go. But the efficiency work is definitely part of continuing to drive returns up. Outside of the efficiency, though, it's really getting the benefit of the investments we've been making across each of the business, investment banking cards, the rightsizing of the mortgage business, wealth management continuing to grow and the rest of them.

然後我認為，每年我們都會根據自身的執行能力，在投資方面決定要將多少資金重新投入投資。我們會邊做邊給你一些指引。但提高效率無疑是持續提升報酬率的一部分。除了效率提升之外，它真正受益的是我們一直在各個業務領域的投資，包括投資銀行卡、抵押貸款業務的合理化、財富管理業務的持續成長等等。

And then as Charlie said in his remarks, it's optimizing capital levels as well. And I think when you add all that stuff, there's multiple paths to get there. And I think we just got to continue to execute on all the things that we've laid out.

正如查理在演講中所說，這也是在優化資本水準。我認為，把所有這些因素加起來，就會發現有許多途徑可以達到目標。我認為我們只需要繼續執行我們已經制定的所有計劃。

That's helpful, Mike. Thank you. And I guess just on capital. So you talked about the fourth-quarter buybacks. And could you give us a perspective on just inorganic growth? Like it was interesting like you emphasized being a US bank and such in terms of your focus. It often comes up that could Wells do an M&A on wealth or global investment banking?

那很有幫助，麥克。謝謝。我想主要還是資金方面的問題。所以你談到了第四季的股票回購。您能否談談非有機成長方面的問題？我覺得很有意思，你們特別強調自己是美國銀行等等。人們常會問，富國銀行能否在財富管理或全球投資銀行領域進行併購？

And I'm not saying one is right versus wrong but would love to get your perspective if you think there are inorganic opportunities that would allow you to kind of accelerate some of these growth strategies in any of the businesses?

我並不是說哪個對哪個錯，但我很想聽聽你的看法，你是否認為存在一些非有機成長機會，可以讓你加速推進任何業務的成長策略？

Well, I guess, I would start with -- we certainly have opportunities to think about things that we wouldn't have thought about in the past. And so it's always incumbent upon us to think about are there opportunities that would be additive to the strategy that we've laid out.

嗯，我想，我會從──我們當然有機會去思考一些我們過去從未想過的事情開始。因此，我們始終有責任思考是否存在可以對我們已製定的策略起到補充作用的機會。

What I would say is that anything that I think we would consider at this point, we would think about in the context of what we've described this company as and what our strategy is. So it wouldn't be about going into something totally different. It would be asking the question, does it help us get stronger in the businesses that we've said that we want to pursue.

我想說的是，任何我們目前會考慮的事情，我們都會結合我們對這家公司的描述和我們的策略來考慮。所以這不是要進入一個完全不同的領域。這相當於在問：這是否有助於我們在我們想要從事的業務領域變得更強大？

But I would say that like what is -- we spend almost all of our time thinking about or the organic opportunities that we have, given how constrained we have been and our ability to think differently about those things now. So that certainly, I think, is the thing that we get most excited about, but we'd be wrong not to think about the inorganic things, but I just want to make sure we're not overthinking that at this point.

但我想說的是，就像現在這樣——我們幾乎所有的時間都在思考我們所擁有的自然機遇，考慮到我們過去受到的限制以及我們現在能夠以不同的方式思考這些事情。所以，我認為這當然是我們最興奮的事情，但如果我們不考慮無機物方面的事情，那就錯了，但我只是想確保我們現在沒有想太多。

John McDonald, Truist Securities.

John McDonald，Truist Securities。

I was wondering, Mike, if you could give some more color on loan growth, which seems to have good momentum. Specifically, you mentioned not having as much drag from some areas like CRE and auto and some of it seems like the front book momentum as well. Maybe you could give us a little color there and how much the build-out of the investment bank might be creating balance sheet opportunities, too?

麥克，我想問你能否再詳細說說貸款成長的情況，貸款成長似乎勢頭良好。具體來說，您提到商業地產和汽車等一些領域的拖累並不大，而且似乎也與前線書籍的動能有關。您能否為我們詳細介紹一下，投資銀行的擴張可能會在多大程度上創造資產負債表的機會？

Yeah. Thanks, John. Look, I think starting on the consumer side, you're seeing less of a drag from residential mortgage coming down, and so that's certainly helpful. And I think that will continue to likely decline in terms -- the pace of decline there, I think, likely continues to get better. And you're seeing really good growth in card and auto.

是的。謝謝你，約翰。你看，我認為從消費者方面來看，房屋抵押貸款下降帶來的拖累正在減少，這當然是有幫助的。而且我認為這種情況可能會繼續下降——而且我認為下降的速度可能會繼續加快。而且信用卡和汽車業務的成長勢頭非常強勁。

And for the first time in a while, we saw overall consumer loans grow on a linked-quarter basis. And we're seeing really good traction both on the card space and in auto. So I think hopefully, that will continue. So that's good.

而且，我們一段時間以來首次看到消費貸款總額較上季成長。我們看到，無論是在信用卡領域還是汽車領域，都取得了非常好的發展勢頭。所以我希望這種情況能夠持續下去。那很好。

On the commercial side of things, you still see a little bit of a decline in the commercial real estate book. We're seeing the office portfolio, in particular, pay off each quarter. I think we're down roughly a third from just a couple of years ago in that portfolio. And so that's a good thing, I think, in that case. But we're seeing good demand across a lot of the other portfolio. So I think over a slightly longer period of time, you'll start to see that overall grow again.

在商業房地產方面，商業房地產交易量仍然略有下降。我們看到，尤其是辦公大樓投資組合，每季都在產生收益。我認為，與幾年前相比，我們的投資組合縮水了大約三分之一。所以我覺得，在這種情況下，這是一件好事。但我們看到其他很多投資組合產品的需求都很好。所以我認為，經過一段時間後，你會看到整體成長動能再次增強。

And then in the C&I space, I think what you're seeing is a couple of things. One, we are seeing some growth across the CIB space, particularly in some of the nonbank financial loan categories, we're seeing growth there. But we're also seeing growth in a lot of the other sectors, which is really good to see it be broad-based coming across the kind of general banking book there.

而在工商業領域，我認為你會看到以下兩點。第一，我們看到企業及投資銀行領域出現了一些成長，尤其是一些非銀行金融貸款類別，我們看到這些領域出現了成長。但我們也看到其他很多行業也在成長，看到這種成長有廣泛的基礎，尤其是在一般的銀行業務方面，這真的很好。

What we're not seeing is growth in the commercial bank yet. And really, that's just because the utilization rates and the revolvers continue to be pretty stable now for a number of quarters. I think that likely picks up over time as people continue to gain more confidence that the economy is going to end up in a really -- in a good place and some other factors there, rates start to come down, help as well. So we're seeing good growth despite still not seeing that utilization pick up in the commercial bank. So hopefully, that will be a good enabler for more growth as we go into next year.

我們目前還沒有看到商業銀行出現成長。實際上，這僅僅是因為近幾個季度以來，信貸利用率和循環信貸額度一直保持相當穩定。我認為隨著時間的推移，這種情況可能會好轉，因為人們對經濟最終會好轉的信心越來越強，再加上其他一些因素，例如利率開始下降，也會有所幫助。儘管商業銀行的利用率尚未提高，但我們仍然看到了良好的成長。所以，希望這能成為我們明年更大成長的良好推動因素。

And then maybe a follow-up, specifically on credit card. Are you seeing new customers to the banking card? Or are they mostly growth in existing Wells Fargo customers?

然後或許可以進行後續跟進，特別是關於信用卡方面的問題。你們的銀行卡業務有新增客戶嗎？或者說，這些成長主要來自富國銀行的現有客戶？

Both. And I think depending on the week, it could be 50-50, 60-40. The majority are still existing customers coming through, but there are a lot of new-to-bank customers coming through there. And I think you may have noticed in the supplement, we did see a big uptick in card originations this quarter relative to last quarter. And the really good part about that is that that's coming out of our branches and coming from our own digital properties, so wellsfargo.com.

兩個都。我認為根據每週的情況，可能是五五開，也可能是六四開。大部分還是老客戶，但也有很多新客戶來辦理業務。我想您可能已經從補充報告中註意到，本季信用卡發放量與上季相比大幅上升。而真正好的一點是，這些資訊來自我們的分店和我們自己的數位資產，例如 wellsfargo.com。

So it's really good to see that the majority of that growth is actually coming from our own assets, which obviously is the lowest cost way to originate stuff and usually has pretty good credit, self-selection here in terms of credit profile. So overall, we're pretty happy with what we're seeing there, and it's bringing both new customers and sort of deepening what we're doing with the rest of the base.

因此，很高興看到大部分成長實際上來自我們自己的資產，這顯然是產生資金成本最低的方式，而且通常信用狀況良好，就信用狀況而言，這是一種自我篩選。總的來說，我們對目前的情況相當滿意，它既帶來了新客戶，也加深了我們對其他客戶群的投入。

And just to remind you of what we said in the past. But tacking onto this quarter, what Mike said is important, which is like it is continued really good execution inside of the broader bank relative to who the card business is pursuing and not focused on -- focused on continued strong credit performance as part of what this -- like we're not chasing credit to get growth in accounts or growth in receivables.

提醒一下你們我們之前說過的話。但就本季而言，Mike 所說的很重要，那就是銀行整體上持續保持良好的執行力，而信用卡業務的目標客戶群並非我們關注的重點——而是持續強勁的信貸表現，因為我們並不追求信貸成長來增加帳戶或應收帳款。

Scott Siefers, Piper Sandler.

斯科特·西弗斯，派珀·桑德勒。

So I wanted to start on credit. So all the indicators are excellent. I was just hoping you could expand a little on your thoughts on the overall health of the consumer. And then just within there, there are just sort of more emerging concerns on auto, in particular. I know you all have been working to become more of a kind of more fulsome lender. How are you feeling about sort of the credit box? So maybe broadly, thoughts on the consumer and then how it trickles down to you all in particular?

所以我打算先貸款買房子。所以所有指標都非常出色。我只是希望您能再詳細談談您對消費者整體健康狀況的看法。然後，在這些方面，尤其是在汽車領域，又出現了一些新的問題。我知道你們一直在努力成為更全面的貸款機構。你對這種信用額度有什麼看法？所以，或許可以先從宏觀角度談談消費者，然後再具體談談這些看法，以及這些看法是如何最終影響到你們每個人的？

Sure. I'll start, Mike, and then you can pick up. It's one of these things that we have very little to say that's different from what we said last quarter. And it's because the performance of the consumer is just very, very consistent. Consumer spend kind of week after week is up the same amount that we've seen over the past bunch of months on both credit and debit.

當然。我先開始，麥克，然後你就可以接手了。這件事我們沒什麼好說的，跟上個季度我們說的差不多。這是因為消費者的表現非常非常穩定。消費者支出每週都在成長，與過去幾個月我們看到的信用卡和金融卡支出成長幅度相同。

If fuel prices go up, then you see less discretionary spending and vice versa. And we don't see any meaningful changes across different affluence levels. And again, we don't have any real subprime to speak of in our books. So it might not be representative of necessarily what everyone else might see out there but we just see a lot of consistency. In fact, when we look at it, payment rates are better as opposed to even flat or worse.

如果燃油價格上漲，那麼可自由支配的支出就會減少，反之亦然。而且，我們沒有看到不同富裕程度人群之間有任何實質的變化。再說一遍，我們的帳簿上沒有任何真正意義上的次貸危機。所以這可能不代表其他人所看到的情況，但我們確實看到了很多一致性。事實上，仔細分析後發現，目前的支付利率比持平甚至更糟要好得多。

Deposits remain strong. And so when you look at it, you see really strong credit results. You see strong consumer spend and stable deposits, and those things just kind of paint a picture of a consistently strong consumer, even though what you read about is -- it would lead you to believe that they're being more cautious. Our results just say that there's a high degree of consistency there without any real pockets of slowing.

儲量依然堅挺。所以從這個角度來看，你會發現信貸業績非常強勁。你會看到強勁的消費支出和穩定的存款，這些都描繪出一幅消費者持續強勁的景象，儘管你讀到的報道卻會讓你覺得他們更加謹慎。我們的結果表明，該地區具有高度的穩定性，沒有任何明顯的放緩跡象。

On the corporate side, we do see consistency in terms of, especially, as Mike pointed out, middle market companies being cautious, whether it's not replacing people, not building inventories as they want to see the whole tariff outcome play out and anything on the broader market.

在企業方面，我們確實看到了一致性，尤其是像麥克指出的那樣，中型市場公司保持謹慎，無論是不更換員工，還是不建立庫存，因為他們想看看整個關稅結果如何，以及更廣泛的市場情況。

And then specifically in the auto business, the answer for us is we don't see any real change in our results. As we talk about becoming a broader spectrum lender, the volumes that we do, the credit levels below what we would have done in the past are very small, but are performing as we would have expected. So no negative surprises there at this point.

具體到汽車產業，我們的答案是，我們沒有看到業績有任何真正的變化。當我們談到成為一家業務範圍更廣的貸款機構時，我們目前的貸款量和信貸水準雖然比過去小得多，但表現卻符合我們的預期。所以目前來看，這方面並沒有出現任何負面意外。

Perfect. Okay. Thank you. And then Mike, just on the NII, I definitely appreciate all that color. I think a lot of your focus was sort of on the asset side, whether it's repricing or volume or what have you. Just curious about sort of what you're seeing and expecting on the deposit cost side now that the Fed is in sort of this round two of easing.

完美的。好的。謝謝。還有Mike，就NII而言，我非常欣賞它豐富的色彩。我認為你們的關注點大多集中在資產方面，無論是重新定價還是交易量等等。我很好奇，鑑於聯準會目前正在進行第二輪寬鬆政策，您對存款成本有什麼看法和預期。

Yeah. I mean, I think if you start on the commercial side, the betas are -- we still expect them to be quite high, and that's been the experience so far and no reason to think that's not going to be the case as we go through the rest of the year and into next year.

是的。我的意思是，我認為如果你從商業方面來看，測試版——我們仍然預計它們會相當高，到目前為止的經驗也是如此，沒有理由認為在今年剩下的時間里以及明年情況不會如此。

On the consumer side, rates went up less, right? So the betas are going to be lower just by definition. But we're not seeing any meaningful competition that's pushing pricing up for sure. And so I think you'll see that grind down a little bit as we go through the year. So pretty much as we expected so far.

從消費者的角度來看，利率上漲幅度較小，對吧？所以，根據定義，β值必然會較低。但我們目前還沒有看到任何真正意義上的競爭推高價格。所以我認為隨著時間的推移，你會看到這種情況有所緩解。到目前為止，情況基本上符合我們的預期。

Erika Najarian, UBS.

瑞銀集團的 Erika Najarian。

My first question is a bit of a two-parter, Mike, on the efficiency agenda towards the 17% to 18%. The first, you mentioned third-party spend in your prepared remarks, I think that year-to-date, it's about $3.3 billion, annualizing of $4.4 million, unchanged from last year. I guess the first question is, is that an opportunity to fund future sort of more revenue-related comp or initiatives?

麥克，我的第一個問題其實包含兩部分，是關於提高效率，使其達到 17% 到 18% 的目標。首先，您在準備好的演講稿中提到了第三方支出，我認為今年迄今的支出約為 33 億美元，年化支出為 440 萬美元，與去年持平。我想第一個問題是，這是否是一個為未來更多與收入相關的補償或計劃提供資金的機會？

And second, it's clear the momentum, [and I'd be] in trading and even card, but I'm wondering, as we think about WIM and sort of a sub-20 pretax margin, obviously, your peers are higher than that. I'm wondering if that's an opportunity as well as you march towards 17% to 18%? And should we be thinking about that pretax margin improvement on the revenue side or the expense side?

其次，很明顯，勢頭強勁，[我]會參與交易甚至信用卡業務，但我想知道，當我們考慮 WIM 和低於 20% 的稅前利潤率時，顯然，你的同行們的利潤率都高於這個水平。我想知道，隨著你們朝著 17% 到 18% 的目標邁進，這是否也是一個機會？那麼，我們應該考慮所得方面的稅前利潤率提升，還是支出方面的稅前利潤率提升呢？

Okay. There's a lot there. I guess if I don't hit it all, just remind me. Maybe I'll start at the end first. On Wealth Management margins, there's certainly an opportunity to improve our margins in Wealth Management. And if you think about what drives margins in that business, it's actually doing a lot more banking and lending business with customers.

好的。那裡有很多東西。如果我沒全部完成，請提醒我。或許我應該先從結尾開始。在財富管理利潤率方面，我們肯定有機會提高財富管理利潤率。如果你思考一下是什麼推動了該行業的利潤率，實際上就是與客戶開展了更多的銀行和貸款業務。

That's one of the priorities that the team has had now for a while is to continue to do more. And if you look at our lending per dollar of assets or however you want to look at the penetration of lending in that business, it's well below where our peers are on really any way to measure it. So I think as you sort of look at that business, that's certainly going to be one of them.

團隊目前的首要任務之一就是繼續加大投入。如果你看我們每美元資產的貸款額，或者無論你想用什麼方式來衡量貸款在該業務中的滲透率，都會發現它遠低於我們的同行，無論用什麼方式來衡量。所以我覺得，當你審視這個行業的時候，這肯定會是其中之一。

Second is continuing to make the advisers more productive. That could be through more alternatives, products or other tools that we give them to continue to grow their books. So there's a whole bunch of initiatives that underpin some of that. But we do expect to see a margin improvement in that business, and that will contribute to overall returns as we look forward.

其次，要持續提高顧問的工作效率。這可能意味著我們提供更多選擇、產品或其他工具，幫助他們繼續拓展業務。因此，有許多舉措支撐著其中一些。但我們預計該業務的利潤率將有所提高，展望未來，這將有助於整體回報。

And then just broadly on efficiency and the professional services, some of the professional services line is driven by volumes in places like markets, think market data and other pieces of it. But there is opportunity to continue to get more efficient across the number of vendors we use, (technical difficulty) some of the regulatory work this year. And so there's a whole number of things that will continue. But professional onsite services is definitely one of them.

然後，就效率和專業服務而言，一些專業服務業務是由市場等領域的規模驅動的，例如市場數據和其他相關因素。但是，我們有機會在供應商數量上繼續提高效率，（技術難題）以及今年的一些監管工作。因此，很多事情都會繼續下去。但專業的現場服務絕對是其中之一。

But as I said earlier, there's hundreds of projects that are ongoing at any given point that drive the efficiency work that we're doing. Some of that is going to be the third-party spend, but a lot of it is also going to be continuing to rationalize some of our own costs around real estate, continuing to drive automation, which not only saves us money, but improves client experience in most of what we do. And so there's a whole range of things that I think will drive that efficiency agenda over time.

但正如我之前所說，任何時候都有數百個專案正在進行，這些專案推動著我們正在進行的效率提升工作。其中一部分將是第三方支出，但很大一部分也將用於繼續合理化我們自身在房地產方面的一些成本，繼續推動自動化，這不僅可以為我們省錢，還可以改善我們所做的大部分工作的客戶體驗。因此，我認為有很多因素會隨著時間的推移推動效率提升議程。

Great. And my second question. Unfortunately, it's not any less complicated. But in the previous two peer calls this morning, NDFI came up as a significant topic. And Wells has clearly been a big player here for a very long time, no issues. This is a little bit of a deja vu from a call, John will probably recall this from five years ago.

偉大的。我的第二個問題。遺憾的是，事情並沒有變得更容易。但在今天上午的前兩次同儕電話會議中，NDFI 都成為了一個重要議題。威爾斯顯然一直是這裡的重要人物，而且已經很久了，沒有任何問題。這有點像是似曾相識的感覺，約翰可能會想起五年前的一次通話。

And I'll ask the question the same way I asked JPMorgan for both you, Charlie and Mike. NDFI is clearly a sort of a broad swath, a broad definition. What questions should investors be asking banks in terms of assessing NDFI exposure and risk as it relates to future credit quality? And second, should investors be concerned about SSFA in terms of its role in allowing NDFI when wrapped in different structures to have an RWA that could be well less than 100%?

我會用和問摩根大通同樣的語氣，替你、查理和麥克問這個問題。NDFI 顯然是一個範圍很廣、定義很廣泛的概念。投資者在評估非金融機構風險敞口及與未來信貸品質相關的風險時，應該向銀行詢問哪些問題？其次，投資者是否應該擔心 SSFA 在允許 NDFI 以不同結構包裝時，其 RWA 可能遠低於 100% 的角色？

Yeah. Maybe I'll take a shot and then I'm sure Charlie may have a view as well. I think, Erika, it first starts with understanding what the exposures are. Not all lending to non-bank financials is the same, right? And it's not all credit equal. And so for our portfolio, it really is the biggest -- by far, the biggest piece of that is lending that we do to the big private equity firms and providing capital call facilities through our fund finance group.

是的。也許我會試一試，然後我相信查理也會有自己的看法。我認為，艾麗卡，首先要了解有哪些風險因素。並非所有向非銀行金融機構提供的貸款都一樣，對吧？並非所有功勞都一樣。因此，就我們的投資組合而言，最大的部分——迄今為止最大的部分——是我們向大型私募股權公司提供的貸款，以及透過我們的基金融資集團提供資本募集便利。

And I think if you look at -- we very much focus that lending on the big established players, which obviously reduces potential issues that you have when you lend in that area. And it's all pretty plain vanilla stuff that we do for that. And then when you start going down below that, the next piece is the lending we do against middle-market loans or commercial loans there. And really, our teams been at this for a long time. They have a really good track record.

我認為，如果你仔細觀察——我們非常注重向大型成熟企業提供貸款，這顯然減少了在該領域放款時可能出現的問題。我們為此所做的都是些非常普通的事情。然後，當你開始向下看的時候，下一部分就是我們針對中端市場貸款或商業貸款所做的貸款。事實上，我們的團隊已經為此努力了很長時間。他們過往業績非常出色。

We underwrite every single loan. We don't lend against portfolios at large. We underwrite all of them. So we underwrite 2,500 to 3,000 loans as an example in that business. And really have a good perspective on what's happening across a pretty broad borrower base there, and that informs how we do underwriting. We're cross-collateralized against if there's any issues with individual loans that get marked regularly. And so I think that we feel really good about the kind of risk return profile that sits on that book.

我們對每一筆貸款都進行擔保。我們不以整體投資組合作為抵押進行貸款。我們為所有這些項目提供擔保。例如，在該業務中，我們承銷了 2500 至 3000 筆貸款。真正了解相當廣泛的借款人群體的情況，並以此為依據進行承保。如果個別貸款出現任何問題，我們會進行交叉擔保，以確保貸款能夠按時償還。因此，我認為我們對該投資組合的風險回報狀況感到非常滿意。

And then the rest of it is spread across a whole multitude of different asset classes, whether it's consumer-oriented receivables, vendor finance, supply chain. And so when you really unpick each component of it, you really need to make sure that you understand sort of the risks that are embedded in there and that you're managing it appropriately.

其餘部分則分散在眾多不同的資產類別中，無論是面向消費者的應收帳款、供應商融資或供應鏈。因此，當你真正拆解它的每一個組成部分時，你真的需要確保你了解其中蘊含的風險，並且你正在以適當的方式管理這些風險。

And I think the regulatory capital framework is just one of those inputs into making sure you're thinking about how much capital you need and how comfortable you should be relative to the underlying risk that sits there.

我認為監理資本架構只是眾多因素之一，它可以幫助你思考你需要多少資本，以及相對於潛在的風險，你應該要有多大的把握。

Great. I'm sure I have a lot of follow-up questions, but I'll save it for my follow-up call with IR. Thank you so much.

偉大的。我肯定還有很多後續問題，但我會留到與投資人關係部門的後續電話中再問。太感謝了。

Betsy Graseck, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的貝齊·格拉塞克。

So thanks for the update on the ROTCE trajectory from here. Two-part question. One is on the trading, you indicated, look, NIM came down because trading leaned into trading, makes a ton of sense.

感謝您提供關於 ROTCE 未來走勢的最新資訊。問題分為兩部分。一是交易方面，正如你所說，你看，淨利差下降是因為交易更注重交易，這很有道理。

I'm wondering, do you feel trading is maxed out relative to your risk profile and what you're interested in doing and what your client demand is? Or is there more that we should expect you're going to be leaning into trading same pace QQ or year on year? Or is it slowing from here?

我想知道，相對於您的風險承受能力、您感興趣的交易方式以及您的客戶需求而言，您是否覺得交易已經達到極限了？或者，我們應該預期您會更傾向於以與往年同期相同的速度進行交易？或者說，速度正在從這裡開始放緩？

Well, I don't think we're going to get into exact pacing, but I think we still have a lot of opportunity across the markets business. Some of that will be in financing trades. And so a lot of what you saw in this quarter was us putting on financing trades with customers, a little bit of real trading inventory and growth there. And I think we've got a lot of opportunity to do more of both of those over a period of time, kind of all within the risk appetite that we have.

嗯，我認為我們不會具體設定進度，但我認為我們在市場業務方面仍然有很多機會。其中一些將用於融資交易。因此，本季你們看到的很多內容都是我們與客戶進行融資交易，以及一些實際的交易庫存和成長。我認為，在一段時間內，我們有很多機會在這兩方面都做得更多，而且這一切都在我們可承受的風險範圍內。

Okay. And then on the $2 billion of compliance expenses that you initially had to spend, has all of that come out? Are you now back to what you would argue as normalized level of expense run rate for that piece of the business? Or is there more to go there?

好的。那麼，最初您必須花費的 20 億美元合規費用，是否都已全部收回？您認為該業務部分的費用運作率現在是否已恢復到正常水準？或者，那裡還有更多值得探索的地方？

No, no. I think as Charlie said in his remarks, we are spending more now than we did before he got here. And that cost is still in the run rate. And as we've talked about over many quarters now is like over a long period of time, a longer period of time, we'll continue to look for ways to optimize that spend.

不，不。我認為正如查理在演講中所說，我們現在的支出比​​他來之前要多。而且這部分成本仍然包含在運作成本中。正如我們過去幾個季度一直在討論的那樣，從長遠來看，我們將繼續尋找優化支出的方法。

A lot of what we built was built with plans that we put together five plus years ago at this point. And I think as we look at them today, there's plenty of ways that we can make it more efficient, whether it's through different use of technology or redefining different aspects of a process. But some of that just takes time for us to get out in a reasonable way.

我們現在建造的很多東西都是根據五年前製定的計劃建造的。我認為，當我們今天審視這些問題時，有很多方法可以提高效率，無論是透過不同的技術應用，還是重新定義流程的不同面向。但有些事情我們需要時間才能以合理的方式解決。

The only thing that we've really reduced [are both] I'd call it just like some of the project spend, the third-party consultants and whatnot that helped us alongside, which in the big scheme of things relative to the total amount of money is not a lot of money.

我們真正減少的只有兩點，我稱之為專案支出、第三方顧問費用等等，這些費用相對於總金額而言並不多。

So most of that money is still being -- we're still spending on the things that we put in place. And as Mike said, over time, we do have the opportunity to figure out how to do those things more efficiently now that we're actually living with it.

所以大部分資金仍然——我們仍然在把錢花在我們已經落實的項目上。正如麥克所說，隨著時間的推移，既然我們已經真正生活在其中，我們就有機會弄清楚如何更有效地完成這些事情。

Right. So that should be a material part of the improvement in expense ratio from here?

正確的。所以這應該是費用率改善的重要部分嗎？

It should be an opportunity for us to figure out how we're going to be able to spend smartly on the things that we want to spend on and be smart about the overall expense base of the company.

這應該是一個讓我們思考如何明智地把錢花在我們想花的地方，並明智地控制公司整體支出結構的機會。

Matt O'Connor, Deutsche Bank.

馬特‧奧康納，德意志銀行。

I wanted to follow up on the comment in the prepared remarks about targeting top five within Investment Banking. And I guess in short, just how do you get there, it's a pretty big step up from where you are now.

我想就事先準備好的發言稿中關於瞄準投資銀行前五名的評論進行補充說明。簡而言之，我想說的是，如何才能達到那個目標？這比你現在所處的位置高出一大步。

I know you made a bunch of hires a few years ago that probably still have some [seasoning] benefits as the [long] improves here. But maybe just talk to kind of the big leap from [six to five] and how much is already kind of baked in the franchise? And how much do you need to hire or expand from here? Thank you.

我知道你幾年前招了一批人，隨著這裡情況的改善，他們可能仍然能從中受益。但或許可以談談從第六部到第五部的巨大飛躍，以及這個系列中已經融入了多少元素？那麼，從現在開始，你需要招募多少員工或進行多少擴張？謝謝。

Yeah, Matt, it's Mike. Look, I think we've added a lot of people over the last 3.5 years into the investment bank. And I think you're seeing that wallet share market share grow gradually each year. And I think we had a really good investment banking fee quarter this quarter. I think it's our highest quarter we've ever had.

是的，馬特，我是麥克。你看，我認為在過去的3.5年裡，我們投資銀行增加了很多人。我認為你會看到錢包份額的市場份額每年都在穩步增長。我認為我們本季的投資銀行手續費收入非常可觀。我認為這是我們有史以來業績最好的一個季度。

And so you're starting to see some of that investment come through. And by the way, some of those fees are also generated by people who have been here a long time as well. And so it's a good combination of some of the newer folks and the team that's been in place.

所以，你開始看到一些投資開始產生回報了。順便說一句，其中一些費用也是由在這裡待了很長時間的人產生的。因此，這是一個很好的組合，既有新加入的成員，也有老成員。

And I think we'll just grind that up. I think, grind up the wallet share over time. And I think we're going to continue to invest in sectors that we think we need to expand coverage. I think some of the technology subsectors, I think we'll continue to look to add in people there. And where we need, we'll add some folks in some of the product areas like M&A. But it's just going to be a methodical sort of continued effort to get there. And I think we feel that it's more than achievable to get to top five.

我想我們會把這件事徹底解決掉。我認為，要慢慢地逐步提高錢包份額。我認為我們將繼續投資於我們認為需要擴大覆蓋範圍的領域。我認為我們會繼續在一些技術子領域增加人手。如有需要，我們會增加一些產品領域的人員，例如併購領域。但要實現這個目標，就需要有條不紊地持續努力。我認為我們完全有信心進入前五名。

Yeah. And the only thing I would add maybe a couple of things would be, first of all, we thought it would just be helpful to just kind of put a marker out there of where we wanted to get to. We talk about being top five internally. There too, we don't necessarily talk about that as the endpoint, but it's like a way point along the way. We don't have a time frame that we feel like we've got to get there by.

是的。我唯一想補充的兩點是，首先，我們認為最好先明確我們想要達到的目標。我們內部討論的目標是進入前五名。在那裡，我們也不一定會把它視為終點，但它就像是旅途中的一個中繼站。我們並沒有覺得必須在某個時間期限內完成。

We're going to continue to do more of what we've been doing, which is looking at where this franchise has strengths relative to the industries that we're good in, where we lend, where we've got cash management relationships, where we have different levels of expertise across the company, where we have underpenetrated customers like we have in our commercial banking franchise, where there's opportunities to do more for them.

我們將繼續加強開展我們一直在做的事情，那就是研究這個特許經營業務相對於我們擅長的行業、我們的貸款業務、我們的現金管理關係、我們公司不同層次的專業知識、我們像在商業銀行特許經營業務中那樣尚未充分滲透的客戶群體以及我們有機會為他們做更多事情的領域。

And if we do that well, then given what we have to offer, then we think we'll continue to be able to not just grow share, but make more money. I mean that's what this is all about. It's about higher returns and making more dollars of profit, both of those things combined.

如果我們能做到這一點，憑藉我們所能提供的，我們認為我們不僅能夠繼續擴大市場份額，還能賺更多的錢。我的意思是，這就是問題的關鍵。關鍵在於更高的回報和更多的利潤，這兩者結合起來才是最重要的。

We compete with really strong people. But when you look at the people that are still in front of us, we think, ultimately, we can have as much, if not more, to offer. And so it will be a continued disciplined build out that we think will continue to do methodically and will help increase both our rankings, but also profitability and returns.

我們面對的是非常強大的對手。但當我們看看那些仍然在我們前面的人時，我們認為，最終，我們能夠提供的可能比他們更多。因此，我們將繼續穩步推進建設，我們認為這將有助於提高我們的排名，同時也能提高獲利能力和回報。

John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

John Pancari，Evercore ISI。

Regarding the 17% to 18% ROTCE target, can you maybe help us in how to think about the efficiency ratio that you baked into that assumption? And does it factor in that you could reach the high 50s as you focus on the efficiency opportunity that you discussed earlier on the call?

關於 17% 至 18% 的 ROTCE 目標，您能否幫助我們理解您在該假設中融入的效率比率？您是否考慮到，如果您專注於之前在電話會議中討論過的提高效率的機會，您的收入可能會達到 50 多美元？

Yes, John, it's Mike. I'll probably give you a slightly unfulfilling answer, so I'm not going to give you an exact number. But I think as you sort of get to 17% or 18% returns, you should start getting to a more comparable efficiency ratio as part of that, right?

是的，約翰，我是麥克。我可能給你的答案會有點讓人失望，所以我就不給你一個確切的數字了。但我認為，當回報率達到 17% 或 18% 時，效率比率也應該開始趨於一致，對吧？

And I think that would -- reasonable people can have a slightly different number, but that would get you to a number certainly much lower than it is right now. And so whether that ends up in the high 50s or 60 like we'll see, but like it should be a meaningful improvement as we get to a higher return.

我認為，理性的人可能會給出略有不同的數字，但這肯定會使數字比現在低得多。因此，無論最終結果是達到 50 多還是 60（我們將會看到的），但隨著回報率的提高，這應該是一個有意義的進步。

Okay. Alright. Thanks. And then on your CET1, the 10% to 10.5%, can you maybe just talk to us a little bit about the cadence of getting down to that 10% to 10.5% level versus the current 11% in terms of how much would be ideally coming from organic opportunity versus buyback?

好的。好吧。謝謝。關於您的 CET1，也就是 10% 到 10.5% 的目標，您能否和我們談談從目前的 11% 到 10% 到 10.5% 的水平，理想情況下應該有多少來自自然增長機會，又有多少來自股票回購？

And then separately, I know you also put in the comment there that you may have the opportunity to manage the CET1 below that level over time, depending upon the regulatory backdrop. Where specifically on the regulatory front is the key driver there? Thanks.

另外，我知道你還在評論中提到，隨著時間的推移，根據監管環境，你可能有機會將 CET1 管理到該水平以下。具體來說，監管方面的關鍵驅動因素是什麼？謝謝。

Well, I think we're still waiting on revised rules around regulatory capital, all of Basel III and the [correspond] -- G-SIB and the rest of the package there. So I think we got to wait and see where that goes. But in terms of -- we've given you that we're going to buy $6 billion or approximately about that in the fourth quarter. That's the intention, at least at this point.

嗯，我認為我們仍在等待有關監管資本的修訂規則，包括巴塞爾協議 III 和 [相關]——G-SIB 以及其他相關規定。所以我覺得我們只能拭目以待了。但就目前而言——我們已經告訴過你們，我們將在第四季購買價值約 60 億美元的商品。至少目前來看，這是我們的意圖。

And then the rest is just -- it's going to be a function of the pacing of the growth that we can see coming from each of the businesses. And then I think we'll get down to where we're going to manage it in a kind of -- in a reasonable time period, but some of it may be a function of the pace of growth.

剩下的就取決於各個業務的成長速度了。然後我認為我們會找到解決辦法，在合理的時間範圍內，但其中一些可能取決於成長速度。

Gerard Cassidy, RBC.

Gerard Cassidy，RBC。

Mike, you touched on credit quality. Obviously, you guys are seeing some stabilization in the office market and you're seeing lower non-accrual loans. Can you share with us just any color outside of the office market in terms of multifamily or other commercial real estate properties? Any trends that you guys are noticing that may be different than earlier in the year?

麥克，你剛才提到了信用品質。顯然，你們已經看到辦公大樓市場趨於穩定，非應計貸款也有所減少。您能否和我們分享一下辦公大樓市場以外的其他顏色，例如多戶住宅或其他商業房地產？你們有沒有註意到什麼與年初不同的趨勢？

Not really. I think they're -- it's pretty stable overall. And I think the rest of the portfolio is performing quite well. And so you're not seeing any deterioration really or any real change in trend. I think things have been quite stable.

並不真地。我認為他們——總體來說相當穩定。我認為投資組合中的其他部分錶現也相當不錯。所以實際上並沒有出現任何惡化或趨勢上的任何真正變化。我認為情況一直相當穩定。

If anything, in the multifamily space, where there were pockets of excess supply in certain parts of the country, that seems to be getting work through in a reasonable way. But otherwise, I'd say things have been pretty consistent across the rest of the different parts of the commercial real estate portfolio for a while now.

如果有什麼變化的話，那就是在多戶住宅領域，該國某些地區存在供應過剩的情況，而這種做法似乎正在以合理的方式解決這些問題。但除此之外，我認為商業房地產投資組合的其他各個部分的情況在一段時間內都相當穩定。

Okay. And it was a curse a year or two ago to grow commercial real estate mortgages. Do you think that we could see commercial real estate mortgage growth in '26 for you guys if we see continued evidence of a bottoming out of the commercial real estate markets?

好的。一兩年前，發展商業房地產抵押貸款還是一件令人頭痛的事。如果商業房地產市場持續出現觸底反彈的跡象，您認為2026年貴公司的商業房地產抵押貸款會有成長嗎？

Are you talking about office? Or are you talking about just the broader commercial real estate portfolio?

你指的是辦公室嗎？還是您指的是更廣泛的商業房地產投資組合？

In both areas, generally speaking.

總的來說，這兩個領域都是如此。

Yeah. I don't anticipate the office portfolio to grow really at all or much. I think on the broader commercial real estate, I think there's opportunity to continue to look at like areas of growth there, for sure, over some reasonable period of time. When that actually manifests itself will be a function of what opportunity there is.

是的。我預計辦公大樓投資組合不會有太大成長。我認為，從更廣泛的商業房地產領域來看，在一段合理的時間內，肯定有機會繼續專注於那些具有成長潛力的領域。何時真正實現，取決於是否存在機會。

But I do want to just come back and just be clear about one thing. Mike is talking about just overall total loans. We are lending across all the different categories in the commercial real estate space, including office, where we think their quality property is with the right sponsors and backing and things like that. So we're actively and have been actively looking at where we can continue to add loans. And the only question is, how much is that relative to the payoffs that we continue to see.

但我確實想回來澄清一件事。麥克說的只是貸款總額。我們向商業房地產領域的各個不同類別提供貸款，包括辦公大樓，我們認為，如果辦公大樓的優質物業有合適的贊助商和支援等等，那就更好了。因此，我們一直在積極尋找可以繼續增加貸款的途徑。唯一的問題是，這與我們持續獲得的效益相比，究竟有多大差距。

Very good. Thank you, Charlie. And then just as a follow-up, some of your peers are using security risk transfers to manage risk. Is that something that you guys have thought about or something that you might consider if you think you need to do it to manage risk?

非常好。謝謝你，查理。另外，還有一些同業正在使用安全風險轉移來管理風險。你們有沒有考慮過這個問題？或者如果你們認為有必要採取措施來控制風險，你們會考慮採取這種措施嗎？

We've done one, Gerard, in the past and in the not-so-distant future, and we'll decide as we go if we think we need to do more.

傑拉德，我們過去做過一次，在不久的將來也會再做一次，我們會邊做邊決定是否需要做更多。

I'd just add, like, it is a tool used like in the right size, the right way that we look at. But at the same time, when we underwrite something and when we do something inside the company, we do it with the risk lens of we're going to keep it. And so that's not going to change. And so the question is just as time goes on and we want to manage the overall risk profile of the company, does it make economic sense for us to do that.

我只想補充一點，它就像一個工具，只要尺寸合適、使用方法正確，就能發揮作用。但同時，當我們承保某項業務或在公司內部開展某項業務時，我們都會從風險的角度出發，確保我們能夠堅持下去。所以這種情況不會改變。因此，隨著時間的推移，當我們想要管理公司的整體風險狀況時，問題就變成了：這樣做在經濟上是否有意義？

Chris McGratty, KBW.

克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

Within your deposit growth expectations within retail specifically, could you speak to geographies or products you're pushing the hardest and maybe where there's the biggest opportunity for growth over the coming years? Thanks.

就零售存款成長預期而言，您能否具體談談您正在大力推廣的地區或產品，以及未來幾年成長機會最大的地區或產品？謝謝。

Well, I think on the consumer side, what we're most focused on is growing checking accounts and expanding sort of the --

嗯，我認為在消費者方面，我們最關注的是發展支票帳戶和擴大某種程度的…--

Active core primary checking accounts.

活躍的核心主支票帳戶。

And I think when you look out over a long period of time, that's where our focus is.

我認為，從長遠來看，這才是我們關注的重點。

Okay. Thanks, everyone, for the questions. We appreciate it. We'll see you next time.

好的。謝謝大家的提問。我們非常感謝。我們下次再見。

Thank you all for your participation on today's conference call. At this time, all parties may disconnect.

感謝各位參加今天的電話會議。此時，所有參與者均可中斷連線。