富國銀行 (WFC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, and thank you for joining the Wells Fargo second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's call is being recorded.

歡迎，感謝您參加富國銀行 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to your host, Mr. John Campbell, Director of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin the conference.

現在我想將電話轉給主持人、投資者關係總監約翰坎貝爾先生。先生，您可以開始會議了。

Thank you, Brad. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our call today where our CEO, Charlie Scharf; and our CFO, Mike Santomassimo, will discuss second-quarter results and answer your questions. This call is being recorded.

謝謝你，布拉德。大家早安。感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議，我們的執行長 Charlie Scharf 和財務長 Mike Santomassimo 將討論第二季的業績並回答您的問題。此通話正在錄音。

Before we get started, I would like to remind you that our second-quarter earnings materials, including the release, financial supplement, and presentation deck, are available on our website at wellsfargo.com. I'd also like to caution you that we may make forward-looking statements during today's call that are subject to risks and uncertainties.

在開始之前，我想提醒大家，我們第二季度的收益資料，包括新聞稿、財務補充資料和簡報，均可在我們的網站 wellsfargo.com 上取得。我還想提醒大家，我們可能會在今天的電話會議上做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述可能受到風險和不確定性的影響。

Factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are detailed in our SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed today containing our earnings materials. Information about any non-GAAP financial measures referenced, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures, can also be found in our SEC filings and the earnings materials available on our website.

我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中詳細說明了可能導致實際結果與預期存在重大差異的因素，包括今天提交的包含我們收益材料的 8-K 表格。有關所引用的任何非 GAAP 財務指標的資訊（包括這些指標與 GAAP 指標的對帳）也可在我們向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的文件和我們網站上的收益資料中找到。

I will now turn the call over to Charlie.

現在我將電話轉給查理。

Thanks, John. Good morning, everyone. I'll make some brief comments about our results and update you on our priorities. I'll then turn the call over to Mike to review second-quarter results in more detail before we take your questions.

謝謝，約翰。大家早安。我將對我們的結果做一些簡短的評論，並向您通報我們的優先事項。在我們回答您的問題之前，我會將電話轉給麥克，讓他更詳細地回顧第二季的業績。

Let me start with some second-quarter highlights. Our second-quarter results reflect the progress we're making to consistently produce stronger financial results with net income, diluted earnings per share, and our return on tangible common equity all up from both the first quarter and a year ago.

首先，我來介紹一下第二季的一些亮點。我們第二季的業績反映了我們在持續創造更強勁財務業績方面所取得的進展，淨收入、每股攤薄收益和有形普通股權益回報率均高於第一季和去年同期。

We continue to invest in our businesses, which has driven higher fee-based income. This growth was diversified, with each of our business segments increasing during the first half of the year.

我們繼續投資我們的業務，這推動了更高的費用收入。這種成長是多樣化的，我們的每個業務部門在上半年都有所成長。

While we've been investing, we've also continued to take a disciplined approach to expenses. And we have now reduced headcount for 20 consecutive quarters, resulting in a 23% decline from five years ago.

在投資的同時，我們也繼續採取嚴謹的開支方式。目前，我們已經連續20個季度裁員，員工總數比五年前下降了23%。

We maintained our strong credit discipline, and credit performance continued to improve in the second quarter with lower net loan charge-offs from both the year ago and the first quarter. Losses in both our consumer and commercial portfolios improved from a year ago.

我們維持了嚴格的信貸紀律，第二季信貸業績持續改善，淨貸款沖銷額較去年同期和第一季均下降。我們的消費者和商業投資組合的損失較一年前均有所改善。

The big news during the quarter was having the asset cap removed. The lifting of the asset cap marks a pivotal milestone in our transformation, along with the termination of 13 orders since 2019, including seven this year alone.

本季的重大新聞是取消資產上限。取消資產上限是我們轉型過程中的重要里程碑，同時自 2019 年以來我們已終止了 13 個訂單，其中僅今年就終止了 7 個。

We are a far stronger company today because of the work we've done. In addition, we have also changed and simplified our business mix, transformed the management team and how we run the company, and have been methodically investing in the company's future while improving our financial results and profile.

由於我們所做的努力，我們今天已經成為一家更強大的公司。此外，我們也改變並簡化了業務組合，轉變了管理團隊和公司營運方式，並在改善財務表現和形象的同時，有條不紊地投資於公司的未來。

I know this call is for investors, but I want to once again thank the over 212,000 employees at Wells Fargo who all contributed in one way or another to this milestone. Though we have tremendous opportunities, this has been a demanding place to work.

我知道這次電話會議是為投資者召開的，但我要再次感謝富國銀行的 212,000 多名員工，他們都以各種方式為這一里程碑做出了貢獻。儘管我們擁有巨大的機遇，但這裡的工作要求很高。

We have recognized the contributions of many here by increasing compensation, improving benefits, investing more, investing in more employee learning and development programs, and by giving those employees making below $85,000 in total compensation special year-end cash awards for the past two years.

我們透過增加薪資、改善福利、加大投資、投資更多員工學習和發展計劃，以及在過去兩年中向總薪酬低於 85,000 美元的員工提供特別年終現金獎勵，來認可這裡的許多人的貢獻。

With the lifting of the asset cap, we wanted to do something special for everyone who invested so much of themselves into the company in recent years. As a demonstration of our appreciation from what we've accomplished, we gave a special award to all employees so they could own part of Wells Fargo and hopefully benefit from our future success.

隨著資產上限的取消，我們想為近年來為公司投入大量資金的每個人做一些特別的事情。為了表達對我們所取得的成就的讚賞，我們向所有員工頒發了特別獎勵，以便他們能夠擁有富國銀行的一部分，並希望從我們未來的成功中受益。

So everyone has been asking, what does the lifting of the asset cap mean? First, we will continue to move forward with our risk and control agenda and embed the disciplines we have built deep into the culture of the company. But we are certainly in a different position with the asset cap and the many orders lifted.

那麼大家一直在問，取消資產上限代表什麼？首先，我們將繼續推進我們的風險和控制議程，並將我們建立的紀律深深融入公司文化中。但由於資產上限和許多訂單被取消，我們的處境肯定有所不同。

It is hard to convey the amount of time and effort the senior team has devoted to this work. So much of this work -- with so much of this work completed, we can allocate our time differently and spend more time focusing on growth and the future.

很難表達高階團隊為這項工作投入了多少時間和精力。如此多的工作——如此多的工作已經完成，我們可以以不同的方式分配時間，花更多的時間關注成長和未來。

While we have not ignored this, the additional time we now have should prove meaningful. As you know, though we have generated substantial amounts of capital in the years since the asset cap was imposed, we've been limited in how much we've been able to deploy to support our customers and communities.

雖然我們並沒有忽略這一點，但我們現在擁有的額外時間應該是有意義的。如您所知，儘管自從實施資產上限以來，我們已經累積了大量資本，但我們能夠部署用於支援客戶和社區的資金卻受到限制。

While shareholders benefited from increased stock buybacks, we would have preferred to allocate more capital to grow our businesses and the overall balance sheet. We now have the flexibility to proactively grow deposits and to allocate capital to grow loans and our corporate and investment bank.

雖然股東受益於增加股票回購，但我們更願意分配更多資本來發展我們的業務和整體資產負債表。我們現在可以靈活地主動增加存款並分配資本來增加貸款以及我們的企業和投資銀行。

Since I arrived, we've had to make difficult choices where to allocate our balance sheet given our inability to increase total assets. As we pointed out, we have turned away deposits from corporate clients. And while we have not turned away consumer deposits, we've been careful not to aggressively grow consumer deposits given the limitations we were subject to.

自從我上任以來，由於我們無法增加總資產，我們不得不做出艱難的選擇，如何分配我們的資產負債表。正如我們所指出的，我們拒絕了企業客戶的存款。雖然我們沒有拒絕消費者存款，但考慮到我們所受到的限制，我們一直謹慎地避免大幅增加消費者存款。

We've also had to be cautious about loan commitments, especially given the potential for significant drawdowns of committed facilities as we saw during the early days of COVID. We have also pointed out that we have constrained our markets-related balance sheet to allow for activity elsewhere in the company.

我們還必須對貸款承諾保持謹慎，特別是考慮到承諾的貸款可能會大幅減少，就像我們在 COVID 初期看到的那樣。我們也指出，我們已經限制了與市場相關的資產負債表，以允許公司其他部門進行活動。

As we look forward, we are now able to move forward more aggressively to serve consumers, businesses, and communities to support US economic growth. We expect to be more aggressive in our pursuit of consumer and corporate deposits, and we will selectively look to grow loans, though we will be cautious during periods of economic uncertainty.

展望未來，我們現在能夠更積極地為消費者、企業和社區提供服務，並支持美國經濟成長。我們預計將更積極地爭取消費者和企業存款，並將有選擇地尋求增加貸款，儘管在經濟不確定時期我們將保持謹慎。

We also see opportunities to allocate more balance sheet to our markets business to drive increased profitability. Our goal is to increase customer trading flow and financing activity without significantly increasing our risk profile. We also have the opportunity to think more broadly about using our balance sheet as we evaluate additional opportunities.

我們也看到了為市場業務分配更多資產負債表以提高獲利能力的機會。我們的目標是在不顯著增加我們的風險狀況的情況下增加客戶交易流量和融資活動。在評估其他機會時，我們還有機會更廣泛地思考如何使用我們的資產負債表。

In addition to the lifting of the asset cap, we expect that changes in both the regulatory and supervisory environment will allow us to compete more effectively. We announced earlier this month that our expected stress capital buffer will decrease by 120 basis points starting in the fourth quarter, which would reduce our required CET1 regulatory minimum plus buffers back to 8.5%.

除了取消資產上限之外，我們預計監管環境的變化將使我們能夠更有效地競爭。我們本月稍早宣布，從第四季開始，我們的預期壓力資本緩衝將減少 120 個基點，這將使我們所需的 CET1 監管最低限額加上緩衝金額回落至 8.5%。

We are also encouraged by the Federal Reserve's intention to provide more detail supporting the CCAR process. And that detail, along with the finalization of the broader set of capital rules, will help us determine the appropriate level of capital we should hold going forward.

聯準會有意提供更多細節來支持 CCAR 進程，這也令我們感到鼓舞。這一細節以及更廣泛的資本規則的最終確定將幫助我們確定未來應持有的適當資本水準。

We are also very supportive of the review the different regulatory agencies are conducting regarding rules and supervisory constraints that go beyond safety and soundness and do not allow us to effectively serve our customers and communities.

我們也非常支持不同監管機構對超出安全性和穩健性範圍的規則和監管限制進行的審查，這些規則和監管限制不允許我們有效地為客戶和社區提供服務。

We are committed to continuing to maintain a strong capital position and are excited about using our excess capital and additional capital generation to reinvest in our franchise as well as continuing to return excess capital to shareholders.

我們致力於繼續保持強大的資本地位，並很高興利用我們的過剩資本和額外的資本來重新投資我們的特許經營權，以及繼續向股東返還過剩資本。

As a reminder, we have returned a significant amount of capital to shareholders over the past five years, including reducing our average common shares outstanding by 23% since 2019. As we previously announced, we expect to increase our third-quarter common stock dividend by 12.5% to $0.45 per share subject to approval by the company's Board of Directors at its regularly scheduled meeting later this month.

提醒一下，我們在過去五年中向股東返還了大量資本，包括自 2019 年以來將平均流通普通股減少了 23%。正如我們之前宣布的那樣，我們預計將第三季普通股股息提高 12.5% 至每股 0.45 美元，但須經公司董事會在本月晚些時候的定期會議上批准。

We've repurchased over $6 billion of common stock during the first half of this year. And during the second quarter, our Board of Directors authorized an additional common stock repurchase program of up to $40 billion.

今年上半年我們回購了超過 60 億美元的普通股。在第二季度，我們的董事會批准了一項高達 400 億美元的額外普通股回購計畫。

We continue to make significant investments in our core business, which are helping to improve our returns. We continue to invest in our Credit Card business, not only by launching new products, but also enhancing the overall customer experience.

我們繼續對我們的核心業務進行大量投資，這有助於提高我們的回報。我們持續投資我們的信用卡業務，不僅推出新產品，也提升整體客戶體驗。

Our commitment to delivering a seamless, secure, and user-friendly digital experience to our card members was recently recognized by J.D. Power, which ranked Wells Fargo number two in both mobile app and online credit card satisfaction. Enhancements like these has spurred new account growth and higher balances in spending from a year ago.

我們致力於為我們的持卡會員提供無縫、安全和用戶友好的數位體驗，最近得到了 J.D. Power 的認可，該公司將富國銀行在行動應用和線上信用卡滿意度方面均評為第二名。此類改進刺激了新帳戶的成長，並使得支出餘額較去年同期增加。

In our Auto business, we completed the launch of our multi-year co-branded agreement as a preferred purchase financing provider for Volkswagen and Audi vehicles in the US. We had strong auto originations in the second quarter, and ending balances in our auto portfolio grew for the first time in over three years.

在我們的汽車業務中，我們完成了多年期聯合品牌協議的啟動，成為美國大眾和奧迪汽車的首選購買融資提供者。我們在第二季的汽車發行量強勁，汽車投資組合的期末餘額三年多來首次成長。

In Consumer, Small, and Business Banking, we have continued to see momentum in the growth of primary checking accounts, benefiting from our investments in marketing offers and enhancements to both the digital and branch experience. We are on track to have over half of our branch network refurbished by the end of this year and to complete a refresh of the entire network by the end of 2028.

在消費者、小型和商業銀行業務中，我們繼續看到主要支票帳戶的成長勢頭，這得益於我們對行銷優惠的投資以及對數位和分行體驗的增強。我們計劃在今年年底前完成一半以上分支機構網路的翻新，並在 2028 年底前完成整個網路的更新。

We continue to optimize and better position our network, including expanding in certain locations, including Chicago, New York City, and Nashville. We continue to enhance our digital experience. And consumer check accounts opened digitally continue to increase and active mobile users now exceed $32 million, up 4% from a year ago. We also continue to see good momentum from Wells Fargo Premier, our offering for affluent clients.

我們將繼續優化和更好地定位我們的網絡，包括在芝加哥、紐約市和納許維爾等某些地區擴張。我們不斷增強我們的數位體驗。以數位方式開立的消費者支票帳戶持續增加，活躍的行動用戶現已超過 3,200 萬美元，比一年前成長了 4%。我們也看到富國銀行 Premier（我們為富裕客戶提供的服務）持續保持良好發展勢頭。

Let me highlight a few areas that demonstrate our growth. We are investing in more bankers to serve these clients and have increased branch-based financial advisers by over 10% from a year ago.

讓我重點介紹幾個體現我們成長的領域。我們正在投資更多的銀行家來為這些客戶提供服務，分行的財務顧問數量比一年前增加了 10% 以上。

The improved collaboration between our bankers and advisers has helped to drive over $16 billion of net asset flows into the Wealth and Investment Management Premier channel during the first half of the year, up over 60% from a year ago. Deposit and investment balances from premier clients have also been steadily increasing and were up approximately 10% from a year ago.

我們的銀行家和顧問之間加強的合作幫助推動了上半年超過 160 億美元的淨資產流入財富和投資管理高級管道，比去年同期增長了 60% 以上。優質客戶的存款和投資餘額也穩定成長，比一年前成長了約 10%。

Turning to our commercial businesses. The investments we have been making in Corporate and Investment Banking have continued to help drive growth, with investment banking fees up 16% during the first half of the year.

轉向我們的商業業務。我們在企業和投資銀行業務方面的投資持續推動成長，今年上半年投資銀行費用上漲了 16%。

We've also made steady progress increasing our US Investment Banking market share with our share up each of the last two years and again in the first half of 2025, driven by gains in leveraged finance and M&A. We're continuing to invest in top talent to strengthen and expand our commercial banking business.

我們也在美國投資銀行市場份額的提升方面取得了穩步進展，在槓桿融資和併購收益的推動下，我們的份額在過去兩年中逐年上升，並在 2025 年上半年再次上升。我們將繼續投資頂尖人才，以加強和擴大我們的商業銀行業務。

For example, in our Technology Banking Group, we have grown our team of bankers by over 25% over the past year. We expect to continue to add bankers to this priority sector and in a number of additional markets and sectors where we have room to grow.

例如，在我們的科技銀行集團，我們的銀行家團隊在過去一年中成長了 25％ 以上。我們期望繼續向這一優先領域以及其他一些我們有成長空間的市場和領域招募銀行家。

In addition to driving growth in our core business, our strategy also includes simplifying our businesses and focusing on the products and services that matter most to our clients. As part of the strategic focus in the second quarter, we entered into an agreement to sell the assets of our rail equipment leasing business. This transaction is expected to close in the first quarter of next year.

除了推動核心業務成長之外，我們的策略還包括簡化業務並專注於對客戶最重要的產品和服務。作為第二季策略重點的一部分，我們簽訂了出售鐵路設備租賃業務資產的協議。預計交易將於明年第一季完成。

As we look ahead, what we see regarding the health of our clients and customers has not changed. Consumers and businesses remain strong, as unemployment remains low and inflation remains in check.

展望未來，我們看到的客戶和顧客的健康狀況並沒有改變。由於失業率維持在低位且通貨膨脹得到控制，消費者和企業依然保持強勁。

Credit card spending growth softened very slightly in the second quarter, but is still up year over year and remain strong overall. And debit card spending growth has remained strong and consistent with what we saw in prior quarters.

第二季信用卡支出成長略有放緩，但年比仍成長，整體保持強勁。借記卡消費成長依然強勁，與前幾季的情況一致。

Consumer delinquencies continued to improve from a year ago and commercial credit performance continued to be relatively strong. Deposit flows for both our consumer and commercial clients were in line with seasonal trends.

消費者拖欠情況較上年同期持續改善，商業信用表現持續相對強勁。我們的消費者和商業客戶的存款流動符合季節性趨勢。

I've had the opportunity to meet with many of our commercial banking clients this past quarter, and many have conveyed optimism that the administration is working to level the trade playing field. They would like certainty, but prioritize a good outcome for US trade above short-term certainty.

上個季度，我有幸與許多商業銀行客戶會面，許多人對政府正在努力創造公平的貿易競爭環境表示樂觀。他們想要確定性，但更重視美國貿易的良好結果，而不是短期確定性。

Many have found ways to avoid passing the 10% tariffs on to their customers. At the same time, they are preparing for the downside and are not growing inventories or hiring aggressively and developing contingency plan if the downside scenario occurs.

許多公司已經找到了避免將 10% 的關稅轉嫁給客戶的方法。同時，他們正在為經濟下行做好準備，不會增加庫存或積極招聘，並且如果出現經濟下行情況，他們會制定應急計劃。

As I've said before, we are hopeful that the results of the current negotiations will make our clients more competitive and help drive stronger economic growth in the US. But there is uncertainty, and we should recognize there is risk to the downside as the markets seem to have priced in successful outcomes.

正如我之前所說，我們希望目前談判的結果將使我們的客戶更具競爭力，並有助於推動美國經濟更強勁的成長。但存在不確定性，我們應該認識到存在下行風險，因為市場似乎已經消化了成功的結果。

As I highlighted, now that the asset cap has been lifted, we are more committed than ever to serving our customers, supporting businesses and communities, and contributing to economic growth in the US. I continue to believe we have one of the most enviable financial services franchise in the world. I'm excited to continue to move forward with plans to produce industry-leading sustainable growth and returns.

正如我所強調的，現在資產上限已經取消，我們比以往任何時候都更致力於服務我們的客戶、支持企業和社區，並為美國的經濟成長做出貢獻。我始終相信我們擁有世界上最令人羨慕的金融服務特許經營權之一。我很高興能夠繼續推進實現業界領先的可持續成長和回報的計劃。

I'll now turn the call over to Mike.

我現在將電話轉給麥克。

Thank you, Charlie, and good morning, everyone. In the second quarter, we had net income of $5.5 billion or $1.60 per diluted common share, up from both the first quarter and a year ago. These improved results reflect our continued focus on our strategic priorities.

謝謝你，查理，大家早安。第二季度，我們的淨收入為 55 億美元，即每股攤薄普通股 1.60 美元，高於第一季和去年同期。這些改善的結果反映了我們對策略重點的持續關注。

Through our ongoing investments in our businesses, expense focus, strong credit discipline, and continued capital return, we have steadily increased profitability and returns. Our second-quarter results included $253 million or $0.06 per share from the gain associated with our acquisition of the remaining interest in our merchant services joint venture.

透過對業務的持續投資、費用重點、嚴格的信貸紀律以及持續的資本回報，我們穩步提高了盈利能力和回報。我們第二季的業績包括收購商戶服務合資企業剩餘權益所帶來的 2.53 億美元或每股 0.06 美元的收益。

Turning to slide 4. Net interest income increased $213 million or 2% from the first quarter, driven by lower deposit costs, one additional day in the second quarter, and higher securities yields and higher loan balances. I'll update you on our expectations for full-year net interest income later in the call.

翻到幻燈片 4。淨利息收入較第一季增加 2.13 億美元，增幅為 2%，主要由於存款成本降低、第二季額外增加一天、證券收益率上升以及貸款餘額增加。我稍後會在電話會議上向您通報我們對全年淨利息收入的預期。

Moving to slide 5. Both average and period-end loans grew from the first quarter. Period-end balances were up $10.6 billion from a year ago, driven by growth in commercial and industrial loans, predominantly in the Corporate and Investment Banking business as well as slightly higher auto, other consumer, and credit card loans; while residential mortgage and commercial real estate loans continued to decline.

移至投影片 5。平均貸款和期末貸款均較第一季成長。期末餘額較上年同期增加 106 億美元，主要得益於商業和工業貸款的增長（主要來自企業和投資銀行業務），以及汽車、其他消費和信用卡貸款略有增加；而住宅抵押貸款和商業房地產貸款則繼續下降。

Average deposits in our businesses increased 4% from a year ago. We reduced higher-cost corporate treasury deposits by 58% from last year, causing total average deposits declined 1%.

我們業務的平均存款比一年前增加了 4%。我們將高成本企業國庫存款較前一年減少了 58%，導致總平均存款下降了 1%。

Total average deposits also declined 1% from the first quarter as a small increase in consumer deposits was more than offset by lower commercial and corporate treasury deposits. Average deposit costs continued to decline and were down 6 basis points from the first quarter.

總平均存款也較第一季下降了 1%，因為消費者存款的小幅成長被商業和企業國庫存款的下降所抵消。平均存款成本持續下降，較第一季下降6個基點。

Turning to slide 6. Non-interest income increased $348 million or 4% from a year ago. Results in the second quarter benefited from the gain associated with our merchant services joint venture transaction.

翻到幻燈片 6。非利息收入比去年同期增加了 3.48 億美元，增幅為 4%。第二季的業績得益於我們商家服務合資交易相關的收益。

I would note that the increase in card fees versus the first quarter reflected a change in where we recognized merchant services revenue resulting from this transaction. Revenue is now included in card fees, whereas previously, our share of the net earnings in the joint venture were included in other non-interest income.

我要指出的是，與第一季相比，卡費的增加反映了我們確認由此交易產生的商家服務收入的變化。收入現在包含在卡費中，而以前，我們在合資企業中的淨收益份額包含在其他非利息收入中。

We continue to have growth in many of the businesses where we have been investing, including a 9% increase in investment banking fees from a year ago. The growth in non-interest income more than offset lower net interest income, resulting in modest revenue growth from a year ago.

我們投資的許多業務都繼續成長，其中投資銀行費用比一年前增加了 9%。非利息收入的成長足以抵銷淨利息收入的下降，從而導致收入較去年同期有所成長。

Turning to expenses on slide 7. Non-interest expense increased $86 million or 1% from a year ago, driven by an increase in revenue-related compensation predominantly in Wealth and Investment Management.

轉到投影片 7 上的費用。非利息支出較上年同期增加 8,600 萬美元，增幅 1%，主要由於財富和投資管理部門的收入相關薪酬增加。

Our other expenses were relatively stable as the investments we are making in our businesses, including the increased spending in technology and advertising, were offset by lower operating losses and the impact of efficiency initiatives. The 4% decline in non-interest expense from the first quarter was driven by seasonally higher first-quarter personnel expense.

我們的其他支出相對穩定，因為我們對業務的投資（包括增加的技術和廣告支出）被較低的營運虧損和效率措施的影響所抵消。非利息支出較第一季下降 4% 是由於第一季人員支出季節性增加所致。

Turning to credit quality on slide 8. Credit performance continued to improve and remained strong. Our net loan charge-off ratio declined 13 basis points from a year ago and 1 basis point from the first quarter.

請參閱第 8 張投影片，討論信用品質。信貸表現持續改善並維持強勁。我們的淨貸款沖銷率比去年同期下降了 13 個基點，比第一季下降了 1 個基點。

Commercial net loan charge-offs increased $36 million from the first quarter to 18 basis points on average loans. The losses in our commercial and industrial loan portfolio were borrower specific with little signs of systematic weakness across the portfolio.

商業淨貸款沖銷額較第一季增加了 3,600 萬美元，達到平均貸款的 18 個基點。我們的商業和工業貸款組合的損失是特定借款人的損失，整個組合幾乎沒有系統性疲軟的跡象。

Commercial real estate losses decreased during the first quarter. As we have said, it will take time for the office fundamentals to recover. Valuations appear to be stabilizing. And although we expect additional losses, they should be well within our expectations.

第一季商業房地產損失減少。正如我們所說，辦公室基本面的恢復需要時間。估值似乎正在趨於穩定。儘管我們預計還會有額外的損失，但這應該在我們的預期之內。

Consumer net loan charge-offs declined $48 million from the first quarter to 81 basis points of average loans with improvement across all of our non-real estate portfolios, while the residential mortgage portfolio continued to have net recoveries. Non-performing assets declined 3% from the first quarter, driven by lower commercial real estate non-accrual loans, predominantly in the office portfolio.

消費者淨貸款沖銷較第一季下降 4,800 萬美元，至平均貸款的 81 個基點，我們所有非房地產投資組合的情況都有所改善，而住宅抵押貸款投資組合繼續實現淨回收。不良資產較第一季下降 3%，主要由於商業房地產不計息貸款減少（主要是辦公大樓組合）。

Moving to slide 9. Our allowance for credit losses for loans increased modestly from the first quarter. And our allowance coverage ratio for total loans has been relatively stable for the past five quarters, as credit trends have remained fairly consistent even amid macroeconomic uncertainty.

移至幻燈片 9。我們的貸款信用損失準備金較第一季略有增加。過去五個季度，我們的總貸款撥備覆蓋率一直相對穩定，因為即使在宏觀經濟不確定的情況下，信貸趨勢也保持相當一致。

Our allowance coverage for our Corporate and Investment Banking and commercial real estate office portfolio has also been relatively stable over the past year and was 11.1% in the second quarter.

過去一年，我們企業和投資銀行以及商業房地產辦公室投資組合的撥備覆蓋率也相對穩定，第二季為 11.1%。

Turning to capital and liquidity on slide 10. We maintained our strong capital position with our CET1 ratio at 11.1% and well above our current CET1 regulatory minimum plus buffers of 9.7%. Starting in the fourth quarter of this year, our new CET1 regulatory minimum plus buffers is expected to decline to 8.5%.

轉向第 10 張投影片上的資本與流動性。我們的資本狀況保持強勁，CET1 比率為 11.1%，遠高於目前的 CET1 監管最低標準加上 9.7% 的緩衝比率。從今年第四季開始，我們新的 CET1 監管最低標準加上緩衝金額預計將下降至 8.5%。

As you know, the Federal Reserve has a pending notice of proposed rulemaking that would include averaging stress test results from the previous two years to determine the stress capital buffer. If that is finalized as proposed, the effective date may move to January 1 and our expected new CET1 regulatory minimum plus buffers would be 8.6%.

如您所知，聯準會有一份待決的擬議規則制定通知，其中包括對前兩年的壓力測試結果進行平均以確定壓力資本緩衝。如果最終按照提議實施，生效日期可能會推遲到 1 月 1 日，我們預期新的 CET1 監管最低限額加上緩衝金額將為 8.6%。

We repurchased $3 billion of common stock in the second quarter and have the capacity to continue to repurchase shares. Also, as Charlie highlighted, we expect to increase our common stock dividend to $0.45 per share in the third quarter, subject to Board approval.

我們在第二季回購了價值 30 億美元的普通股，並且有能力繼續回購股票。此外，正如查理所強調的，我們預計在第三季將普通股股息提高至每股 0.45 美元，但需經董事會批准。

Moving to our operating segments, starting with Consumer Banking and Lending on slide 11. Consumer, Small, and Business Banking revenue increased 3% from a year ago driven by lower deposit costs and higher deposit balances.

前往我們的營運部門，從第 11 張投影片上的消費者銀行和貸款開始。由於存款成本降低和存款餘額增加，消費者、小型和商業銀行業務收入較去年同期增加了 3%。

For the second consecutive quarter, deposit balances grew from a year ago, even with higher outflows for tax payments in the second quarter of this year compared with last year. Debit card spending remained strong, up 4% from a year ago, consistent with the prior two quarters.

儘管今年第二季的納稅流出量高於去年，但存款餘額連續第二季較上年同期成長。簽帳卡消費依然強勁，較去年同期成長 4%，與前兩季持平。

Home Lending revenue was stable from a year ago. Mortgage loan originations increased 40% from a year ago as we focused on servicing Wells Fargo customers. This higher volume also reflected a stronger mortgage market from a year ago. However, the mortgage market continued to be weak compared with historical levels due to the higher rate environment.

房屋貸款收入與去年同期相比保持穩定。由於我們專注於服務富國銀行客戶，抵押貸款發放量比去年同期增加了 40%。交易量的增加也反映出抵押貸款市場較去年同期更加強勁。然而，由於利率較高，抵押貸款市場與歷史水準相比仍然疲軟。

We continue to reduce headcount, which has declined 49% since the end of 2022 as we have simplified the business and reduced the amount of third-party mortgage loan service for others by 33% since the end of 2022. Credit Card revenue grew 9% from a year ago as loan balances increased and spending slowed slightly but remained strong.

我們繼續減少員工人數，由於我們簡化了業務，自 2022 年底以來，員工人數已下降了 49%，並將為他人提供的第三方抵押貸款服務金額自 2022 年底以來減少了 33%。由於貸款餘額增加且支出略有放緩但依然強勁，信用卡收入較上年同期增長了 9%。

Auto revenue decreased 15% from a year ago, driven by lower loan balances and loan spread compression from previous credit typing actions. While these actions have reduced revenue, they have improved credit performance. Auto revenue increased 2% from the first quarter, the first linked-quarter increase since fourth quarter 2021. The decline in personal lending revenue from a year ago was driven by lower loan balances.

汽車收入較上年同期下降了 15%，原因是貸款餘額減少以及先前的信貸分類行動導致貸款利差壓縮。雖然這些措施減少了收入，但卻提高了信貸業績。汽車收入較第一季增長 2%，這是自 2021 年第四季以來首次環比增長。個人貸款收入較上年同期下降是由於貸款餘額減少。

Turning to Commercial Banking results on slide 12. Revenue was down 6% from a year ago as lower net interest income due to the impact of lower interest rates was partially offset by growth in non-interest income driven by higher revenue from tax credit investments and an increase in treasury management fees. Average loan balances in the second quarter increased 1% from both a year ago and the first quarter as clients have largely remained cautious while waiting for more clarity on the economic environment.

前往投影片 12 上的商業銀行結果。收入較上年同期下降 6%，因為受利率降低的影響，淨利息收入減少，但被稅收抵免投資收入增加和財務管理費增加所推動的非利息收入增長部分抵消。由於客戶在等待經濟環境進一步明朗化的過程中普遍保持謹慎，第二季的平均貸款餘額較去年同期和第一季均增加了 1%。

Turning to Corporate and Investment Banking on slide 13. Banking revenue was down 7% from a year ago, driven by the impact of lower interest rates. This decline was partially offset by lower deposit pricing and higher investment banking revenue, including higher advisory fees.

前往第 13 張投影片上的企業和投資銀行業務。受利率下降的影響，銀行收入較去年同期下降了 7%。這一下降被較低的存款價格和較高的投資銀行收入（包括較高的諮詢費）部分抵消。

Commercial Real Estate revenue declined 6% from a year ago due to lower loan balances, the impact of lower interest rates, as well as reduced mortgage banking income after the sale of our commercial non-Agency third-party servicing business in the first quarter.

商業房地產收入較去年同期下降 6%，原因是貸款餘額減少、利率降低的影響，以及第一季出售商業非代理第三方服務業務後抵押銀行收入減少。

Markets revenue declined 1% from a year ago as higher revenue in foreign exchange and rates products was offset by declines in equities. We had $122 million gain related to an exchange of shares for vis-a-vis common stock that benefited equities a year ago.

由於外匯和利率產品收入的增加被股票收入的下跌所抵消，市場收入較上年同期下降了 1%。我們透過股票兌換普通股獲得了 1.22 億美元的收益，而一年前，這項收益對股票市場有利。

Average loans grew 4% from a year ago and 3% from the first quarter. The increase from the first quarter was broad-based with higher balances in Markets, Banking, and Commercial Real Estate.

平均貸款較去年同期成長 4%，較第一季成長 3%。第一季的成長是廣泛的，市場、銀行和商業房地產的餘額都有所增加。

On slide 14, Wealth and Investment Management revenue increased 1% from a year ago as growth in asset-based fees driven by higher market valuations was partially offset by lower net interest income due to the impact of lower rates. As a reminder, the majority of WIM advisory assets are priced at the beginning of the quarter, so third-quarter results will reflect the higher July 1 market valuations.

在投影片 14 上，財富和投資管理收入比去年同期成長了 1%，因為受市場估值上升推動的資產費用成長被受利率下降影響導致的淨利息收入下降部分抵消。提醒一下，大多數 WIM 諮詢資產都是在本季初定價的，因此第三季的業績將反映 7 月 1 日更高的市場估值。

Slide 15 highlights corporate results. Revenue increased from a year ago, driven by the gain associated with our merchant services joint venture transaction.

幻燈片 15 重點展示公司業績。收入較上年同期增加，這得益於我們商家服務合資交易帶來的收益。

Turning to our 2025 outlook on slide 16, starting with net interest income. We currently expect net interest income for 2025 to be roughly in line with full-year 2024 net interest income of $47.7 billion.

轉向第 16 張投影片上的 2025 年展望，首先是淨利息收入。我們目前預計 2025 年的淨利息收入將與 2024 年全年的 477 億美元淨利息收入大致持平。

While there are several moving pieces of why we currently expect net interest income to be a little lower than we discussed in April, the largest driver is that we have dedicated more balance sheet to our markets business than we originally assumed, including supporting stronger client activity in products like commodities and rates, which can be low -- which can have low or non-earning assets.

雖然有幾個因素導致我們目前預計淨利息收入會比 4 月份討論的略低，但最大的驅動因素是，我們為市場業務投入的資產負債表比最初預想的要多，包括支持客戶在商品和利率等產品方面的更強勁的活動，這些產品可能收益較低——也可能擁有低收益或無收益的資產。

The cost of funding this activity results in lower net interest income, while most of the revenue generated is recognized in non-interest income. Our updated expectation still assumes net interest income grow sequentially in both the third and fourth quarter of this year.

此項活動的融資成本導致淨利息收入降低，而產生的大部分收入都計入非利息收入。我們最新的預期仍假設今年第三季和第四季的淨利息收入將持續成長。

We are only halfway through the year and several key variables including net interest income remain uncertain. We will closely monitor how these assumptions evolve over the remaining of the year.

今年才剛過一半，包括淨利息收入在內的幾個關鍵變數仍然不確定。我們將密切關注這些假設在今年剩餘時間內如何演變。

Turning to expenses. Our expense outlook has not changed, and we still expect 2025 non-interest expense to be approximately $54.2 billion.

談到費用。我們的支出前景沒有改變，我們仍然預期 2025 年非利息支出約為 542 億美元。

In summary, our second-quarter results reflected the consistent progress we've been making to improve our financial performance. Compared with a year ago, we had double-digit growth in net income and diluted earnings per share through revenue, including fee-based growth across many of our businesses; maintained our expense discipline; improved our credit performance; and reduced common shares outstanding and increased our dividend.

總而言之，我們的第二季業績反映了我們在改善財務表現方面所取得的持續進展。與一年前相比，我們的淨收入和每股攤薄收益均實現了兩位數增長，其中包括許多業務的費用增長；我們保持了費用紀律；改善了信貸業績；減少了流通在外的普通股，增加了股息。

Now that the asset cap is lifted, the management team has more time to focus on our growth initiatives. And we'll have -- we will also have the flexibility to allocate more capital to growing our balance sheet, including deposits, loans, and trading assets.

現在資產上限已經取消，管理團隊有更多的時間專注於我們的成長計畫。我們還將靈活地分配更多資本來擴大我們的資產負債表，包括存款、貸款和交易資產。

We will now take your questions.

我們現在將回答大家的提問。

(Operator Instructions) John McDonald, Truist Securities.

（操作員指示）Truist Securities 的 John McDonald。

Mike, thanks for the explanation on the NII outlook. It's helpful, the markets piece of it. Just on the non-markets NII, could you talk about what loan growth assumptions you built into the NII outlook for the back half of the year and how that connects to what you saw in terms of loan growth in the second quarter?

麥克，感謝您對 NII 前景的解釋。這很有幫助，是市場的一部分。僅就非市場 NII 而言，您能否談談您在下半年 NII 展望中建立的貸款成長假設，以及這與您在第二季度看到的貸款成長情況有何關聯？

When you break apart the portfolio, on the consumer side, we're not -- on the mortgage portfolio, we expect that will likely just continue to come down just a little bit in the second half. I think you should see a little bit of growth in card, some of that seasonality in terms of what happens as you go into third and fourth quarter spending.

當你分解投資組合時，在消費者方面，我們不會——在抵押貸款投資組合方面，我們預計下半年可能會繼續小幅下降。我認為你應該會看到信用卡消費出現一些成長，從第三季和第四季的支出情況來看，這有一定的季節性。

And then we started to see some growth in auto -- small, but we started to see that turn. So hopefully, that will continue to grow in the second half of the year, but relatively modest in the overall balance sheet.

然後我們開始看到汽車產業有所成長——雖然成長幅度不大，但我們開始看到轉變。因此，希望今年下半年這一數字將繼續成長，但在整體資產負債表中則相對溫和。

On the commercial side, we do expect to see some modest growth as we go into the rest of the year. I think it likely comes from the same places, at least as we come into the third quarter, mostly in the corporate investment bank.

在商業方面，我們確實預計在今年剩餘時間內會看到一些適度的成長。我認為它可能來自相同的地方，至少在我們進入第三季時，主要是在企業投資銀行。

Hopefully, we'll start to see some of the commercial bank customers borrow a little bit more as well. But I'd say, overall, it's still relatively modest. But as you get to the end of the year, hopefully, if things play out, we'll start to see a little bit more activity more broadly.

希望我們能看到一些商業銀行客戶也藉入更多資金。但我想說，總體來說，它仍然相對溫和。但隨著年底的到來，如果一切順利，我們將開始看到更廣泛的活動。

Okay. And then maybe you could just give us your thoughts in terms of total revenue. I know you don't give total revenue guidance, but just maybe when you look at your own internal projections and budgeting, how is the revenue outlook for this year shaping up? What are the puts and takes relative to your expectations if we think about the year so far?

好的。然後也許您可以就總收入方面告訴我們您的想法。我知道您沒有給出總收入指導，但也許當您查看自己的內部預測和預算時，今年的收入前景如何？如果我們回顧今年迄今為止的情況，相對於您的預期而言，收益和利弊如何？

No, it's -- as you break apart like the pieces, we talked a bit about where NII is coming out at this point. I think when you look at the fee side, the biggest -- go through the biggest line items and you look at the investment advisory fees, the market's been very supportive as you look at the rest of the year.

不，它是——當你把碎片分開時，我們稍微談論了一下 NII 此時的進展。我認為，當你看費用方面，最大的——透過最大的項目，你看看投資諮詢費，你會發現，在今年剩餘時間內，市場一直非常支持。

And so you can easily model what the third quarter looks like based on where the markets ended already given most of the fees are already certain. And then -- so as long as the market holds up or grows a little potentially as you go into the fourth quarter, that should be constructive.

因此，由於大多數費用已經確定，您可以根據市場結束的情況輕鬆預測第三季的情況。然後——只要市場在進入第四季度時保持穩定或略有增長，就應該是有建設性的。

You start breaking down deposit fees, card fees, all that stuff plays into some of the seasonal activity that we'll see in the third quarter and fourth quarter. And I'd say largely, those things are playing out pretty close to what we modeled. Depending on the month or quarter, maybe a little bit better; but they're playing out largely as we expected across most of those.

你開始分解存款費、卡費，所有這些都會影響我們在第三季和第四季看到的一些季節性活動。我想說，總體而言，這些事情的進展與我們模擬的非常接近。根據月份或季度的不同，可能會好一點；但在大多數情況下，它們的表現基本上符合我們的預期。

And then it's really trading line, and that will be driven by what activity and volatility we see in the market. But I think we've had a pretty constructive environment now for a couple of quarters. Hopefully, that continues.

然後它實際上是交易線，它將受到我們在市場中看到的活動和波動的驅動。但我認為，過去幾個季度，我們已經擁有了相當建設性的環境。希望這種情況能夠持續下去。

And then I think lastly, just -- we'll see how the year comes out on the equity securities gains that we saw. We did see some modest gains in this quarter, big improvement relative to what we saw last quarter. As the market remains constructive, that -- hopefully, that will continue as well.

最後，我認為——我們將看看今年我們所看到的股票證券收益如何。本季我們確實看到了一些適度的成長，與上一季相比有很大改善。由於市場保持建設性，希望這種情況也能持續下去。

Okay. And I guess just to clarify, Mike, you mentioned -- you used to previously say that your NII guide assumes the asset cap remains in place. And now we relax that assumption, the outlook is a little worse. Is it just this counterintuitive mix shift that you're going to grow the capital markets balance sheet, but it's going to come in fees?

好的。我想澄清一下，麥克，你提到過——你以前說過，你的 NII 指南假設資產上限仍然存在。現在我們放鬆這個假設，前景會變得更糟一些。這是否只是違反直覺的組合轉變，也就是你將擴大資本市場的資產負債表，但卻需要支付費用？

I would -- well, I remind you first, it's been off for, what, weeks now -- 5.5 weeks, 6 weeks. And so I do think it has been off for a very short amount of time. And I think what's happened as we looked at -- and some of this started towards the end of the first quarter, early second quarter; and we talked about it in some other public forums.

我會——好吧，我先提醒你，它已經停了好幾個星期了——5.5週，6週。因此我確實認為它關閉的時間很短。我認為，正如我們所看到的，這種情況有些是在第一季末、第二季初開始出現的；我們也在其他一些公共論壇上討論過這種情況。

We've seen some increase in the activity, and that's what's causing it. That's the, by far, largest driver of what's causing it to move down a little bit from the low end of the range that we talked about in April. And so -- and as we said, like largely offset in fees on those because you get paid in fees for some of the -- for some of that activity.

我們看到活動增加，這就是造成這種情況的原因。這是迄今為止導致其從我們 4 月討論的範圍低端略有下降的最大驅動因素。所以 — — 正如我們所說的那樣，這些費用在很大程度上被抵消了，因為你會因為一些活動而獲得一些費用。

Let me just add a little bit, John. It's Charlie. Let me add just one thing here, which is as we look forward to the end of the year, we have so far assumed, I would describe it as, a very small increase in the overall size of the balance sheet.

讓我補充一點，約翰。是查理。我在這裡只補充一點，那就是當我們展望年底時，我們迄今為止假設，我會將其描述為，資產負債表的整體規模將有非常小的增長。

So we do assume it grows above what used to be the cap, but not in any really meaningful way. And when we look at where that growth is coming from, part of it is the loan growth that Mike spoke about earlier. But we have been and assume that we dedicate balance sheet to our markets business. And as we think about that, we're not focused on maximizing net interest income.

因此，我們確實假設它會成長到超過以前的上限，但這並不是真正有意義的。當我們查看這種增長的來源時，我們發現部分原因是麥克之前提到的貸款成長。但我們一直並假設我們將資產負債表專門用於我們的市場業務。當我們考慮這一點時，我們並不關注最大化淨利息收入。

We're focused on maximizing returns, how much money we make overall. And so we'll try and do as good a job as we can going forward, giving some more clarity on how we intend to use that balance sheet, how it can affect the different pieces. But that is -- it's a little bit of what we saw during this past quarter, and it's the way we're thinking about the rest of the year.

我們專注於最大化回報，也就是我們整體賺多少錢。因此，我們將盡力做好今後的工作，更清楚地說明我們打算如何使用資產負債表，以及它將如何影響各個部分。但那是——這是我們在上個季度看到的情況，也是我們對今年剩餘時間的思考方式。

Scott Siefers, Piper Sandler.

史考特·西佛斯、派珀·桑德勒。

I was hoping, Mike, maybe we could approach the NII question maybe, I guess, a little differently. Just what are -- if loan growth in the second half will only be modest, what are the other factors that will allow NII to grow? Because I think you'll still need to average a few percent higher in the second half than you just did in the second quarter. So just trying to understand what the major puts and takes are within there.

麥克，我希望我們能以稍微不同的方式來處理 NII 問題。那麼——如果下半年貸款成長只是溫和的話，還有哪些因素能夠推動 NII 成長？因為我認為下半年的平均值仍然需要比第二季高出幾個百分點。因此，只是想了解其中的主要內容是什麼。

It's a little bit of a lot of things, right, that will add up to some growth each quarter. We do expect deposit costs to continue to come down. We do expect to see some loan growth come through. We do expect -- which will be a driver. We do expect to see further repricing of the securities portfolio.

有很多事情都在發生，對吧，這些事情加起來每季都會帶來一些成長。我們確實預計存款成本將持續下降。我們確實預計會看到一些貸款成長。我們確實期待——這將成為驅動力。我們確實預期證券投資組合將進一步重新定價。

So it really is a little bit of a lot of things plus some deposit growth as we go into the end of the year. And so I think all of that adds up to seeing it grow sequentially each quarter.

因此，隨著我們進入年底，這確實是很多事情加上一些存款成長的情況。所以我認為所有這些因素加起來就會導致它每季都持續成長。

And then Charlie, maybe just a top level thing. With the asset cap now off, I guess one of the questions that I get pretty frequently is, when or how might be the right time to revisit medium-term return targets? Do you have any broad sense for where you are in thinking about that dynamic?

然後是查理，也許只是一件頂級的事。現在資產上限已經取消，我想我經常被問到的一個問題是，何時或如何才是重新審視中期報酬目標的最佳時機？您對這種動態有什麼廣泛的認知嗎？

Sure. I guess a couple of things. I think you didn't directly ask the question, but let me just maybe talk for a second about capital levels because capital levels obviously dictate returns to a certain extent.

當然。我想有幾件事。我認為您沒有直接提出這個問題，但請允許我稍微談一下資本水平，因為資本水平顯然在一定程度上決定了回報。

And so with what's happening -- we've certainly seen a lot of change over the past quarter. So obviously, we've got the ability to rethink how we use balance sheet with the asset cap.

從目前的情況來看——我們確實看到過去一個季度發生了很多變化。因此顯然，我們有能力重新思考如何使用資產上限的資產負債表。

And I do just want to remind people that like I have said very consistently over and over and over again, when the asset cap is lifted, it's not like this light switch is going to go off and all of a sudden, things are going to dramatically change.

我只是想提醒大家，就像我一再強調的那樣，當資產上限被取消時，情況並不會突然發生巨大變化。

We didn't know exactly when the cap is going to be lifted. We didn't want to get ahead of ourselves. And so we're very carefully thinking through how we use the additional capacity to help grow the company. And so we expect that to happen over time.

我們不知道何時才能取消這項上限。我們不想超越自己。因此，我們正在仔細思考如何利用額外的產能來幫助公司發展。因此我們期望這種情況會隨著時間的推移而發生。

We never wanted to lead people to believe that there'd be any major change in the next week, the next month, or next quarter. But it certainly does open options for us to grow and increase returns beyond what we've seen in the past.

我們從不想讓人們相信下週、下個月或下個季度會發生任何重大變化。但它確實為我們提供了成長的選擇，並提高了過去所見的回報。

And so now that it's off, we're going to be thoughtful about it. And as we go through our planning for next year, like this is the perfect time, we will do our best to talk more about it and provide more clarity broadly to everyone so we can create a level of understanding there.

現在它已經關閉，我們會認真考慮它。當我們制定明年的計劃時，覺得現在是最佳時機，我們會盡力更多地談論它，並向每個人提供更清晰的解釋，以便我們能夠在那裡建立一定程度的理解。

We have the lower SCB, which is -- it is a huge decrease after a significant increase from the year before, which we commented in the year before. We didn't understand why we saw the increase.

我們的 SCB 較低，這是 - 與前一年相比大幅增加之後的大幅下降，我們在前一年對此進行了評論。我們不明白為什麼會看到這種成長。

As we think about how that impacts where we should be running our capital levels, we want to take a little bit of time to let the Fed go through its process, both on CCAR and on the work they're doing on capital requirements, so we can try and get an understanding of what the right long-term level of capital is.

當我們思考這將如何影響我們的資本水準時，我們希望花一點時間讓聯準會完成其流程，包括 CCAR 和他們在資本要求方面所做的工作，這樣我們就可以嘗試了解正確的長期資本水準是多少。

So they've said that they're going to provide more transparency on CCAR. And whether it's the underlying assumptions, the models, things like that, that will be extremely helpful for us so that we're not constantly readjusting capital targets on a yearly basis in any material way when, in our view, we haven't materially changed the risk of the company.

因此他們表示將提高 CCAR 的透明度。無論是基本假設、模型或諸如此類的東西，都對我們非常有幫助，這樣我們就不會在每年的基礎上不斷以任何實質性的方式重新調整資本目標，在我們看來，我們並沒有實質性地改變公司的風險。

So that will be forthcoming, hopefully, over the next couple of months as the work they're doing on capital. So that will allow us to come back with a more definitive point of view on where we should be running capital.

因此，希望在接下來的幾個月裡，隨著他們在資本方面所做的工作，這將會出現。這樣，我們就能對資本的運作方向有更明確的觀點。

But certainly, all of these things are lower levels from where we had been running it because of the increases that we saw. So that allows us to deploy excess capital either organically or through buybacks. And so we do expect to get there.

但可以肯定的是，由於我們看到的成長，所有這些事情都比我們運行的時候要低一些。這樣我們就可以透過有機方式或回購方式部署過剩資本。我們也確實期望能夠實現這一目標。

And then just more specifically to your question, we've also said very clearly 15% is not the -- it's an interim target. It's not the final target. Once we get there, it's a good time to revisit where we go.

然後更具體地回答您的問題，我們也非常清楚地說過 15% 不是一個目標，而是一個中期目標。這不是最終目標。一旦我們到達那裡，就是重新回顧我們去過的地方的好時機。

So both through hopefully some increased returns that we're seeing in terms of how we run the business -- running, at some point, with lower capital returns, we believe will be consistently at that 15%. And then we'll provide more information on where we go from there, which will obviously be a higher number, not a lower number.

因此，我們希望透過經營業務的方式獲得一些回報，在某個時候，即使資本回報率較低，我們也相信回報率將持續保持在 15% 左右。然後，我們將提供更多有關下一步行動的信息，這顯然將是一個更高的數字，而不是更低的數字。

Ken Usdin, Autonomous Research.

肯‧烏斯丁（Ken Usdin），自主研究。

Just one more question on capital. Given what all you just said, Charlie, and that we still have now really big amount of capital, the buyback in the second quarter was a little smaller than the first quarter. And loan growth, as you said, looks like it's getting better, but not that quickly.

關於資本，我還有一個問題。查理，考慮到你剛才所說的一切，以及我們現在仍然擁有大量的資本，第二季的回購規模比第一季略小。正如您所說，貸款成長看起來正在好轉，但速度並不快。

So should we -- can we expect that you might do more in terms of the buyback in advance of getting that final zone of where you want to live, given that you just -- it seems like you have enough capacity to do all things you would want to do in terms of growing the balance sheet and also returning more?

那麼，我們是否可以期待您在獲得最終居住區域之前在回購方面做更多的事情，因為您似乎有足夠的能力去做您想做的所有事情，即增加資產負債表並獲得更多回報？

I don't think we want to give a specific forecast on how much we intend to do. But to your point, we have more capacity, not less capacity. The price of the stock does matter, and so we'll be thinking about that. And I think we'll go from there.

我認為我們不想對我們打算做多少做出具體的預測。但正如您所說，我們的產能增加了，而不是減少了。股票價格確實很重要，所以我們會考慮這一點。我想我們會從那裡出發。

But I think we -- how do I describe it? I guess I would say, we don't -- on the one hand, we don't feel like we need to deploy all of this capital immediately because we do want to have the opportunity to use the balance sheet to grow and do interesting things. But I've also said that we don't intend to do anything dramatic. And so that does create more opportunity to buy stock back.

但我認為我們——我該如何描述它？我想說，我們不會——一方面，我們不覺得需要立即部署所有這些資本，因為我們確實希望有機會利用資產負債表來發展並做一些有趣的事情。但我也說過，我們不打算採取任何戲劇性的措施。因此這確實創造了更多回購股票的機會。

But again, the way we're thinking about it is we want to first use the capital that we have to grow the company organically. That's what allows us to produce the right returns. It allows us to create the ability to increase the dividend, and buying stock back is what we're left with.

但同樣，我們的想法是，我們希望首先利用我們擁有的資本來有機地發展公司。這使我們能夠獲得正確的回報。它使我們能夠創造增加股利的能力，而回購股票就是我們所剩下的。

So what we hope the answer is -- what certainly seems like it -- is we'll have the ability to do all of those things to a greater extent than we've been able to do in the past. And we'll just be very -- hopefully, be very thoughtful about the timing.

因此，我們希望的答案是——看起來確實如此——我們將有能力比過去更好地完成所有這些事情。我們希望能夠非常慎重地考慮時機。

And on one -- you've laid out all the organic potentials in the past. But the one I wanted to ask you specific about is on retail deposits, where there is obviously a strong competitive landscape and a lot of thanks to building branches in other territories.

一方面—您過去已經闡述了所有有機潛力。但我想具體問您的是零售存款，該領域的競爭格局顯然非常激烈，這在很大程度上要歸功於在其他地區設立分支機構。

You've talked about how that consent order coming off last year has helped you just go to market in a broader sense. But like how will that manifest itself in terms of just retail deposit growth? Can you see -- you expect an acceleration there in either net new checking or just overall deposit growth taking on the retail side?

您談到了去年的同意令如何幫助您從更廣泛的意義上進入市場。但就零售存款成長而言，這將如何反映呢？您能否看到—您預計淨新增支票帳戶或零售方面的整體存款成長將會加速？

I mean -- yeah. I mean, I think the answer is -- as I said, I think just a little bit of if you go back for a second is when we had the sales practices consent order, it was specifically driven by some of the things that happened in those businesses. And so we had to be very, very careful about what we did.

我的意思是——是的。我的意思是，我認為答案是——正如我所說的，我認為如果你回過頭來看，當我們有銷售行為同意令時，它正是由這些企業中發生的一些事情所驅動的。因此我們必須非常非常小心我們所做的事情。

We scaled back an awful lot of stuff, which stood in the way of our ability to grow. And then even as that order came off, recognizing we had a deposit cap -- well, I'm sorry, an asset cap, which effectively can be a deposit cap, we were -- even though we were adding back some of the things that would actually help us grow quicker, we were very careful about not doing too much too quickly.

我們削減了大量的開支，這阻礙了我們的發展。然後，即使該命令已經取消，我們意識到我們有一個存款上限 - 嗯，對不起，是一個資產上限，實際上可以是一個存款上限，我們 - 即使我們增加了一些實際上可以幫助我們更快增長的東西，我們也非常小心，不會做得太多太快。

Because when you have a constraint, you just don't want to bump up against that constraint. So the activities that we've reinstated inside the consumer business have to do with reporting. They have to do with the way we manage the business. They have to do with the way we pay people.

因為當你有一個約束時，你只是不想碰到這個約束。因此，我們在消費者業務中恢復的活動與報告有關。它們與我們管理業務的方式有關。它們與我們支付工資的方式有關。

And so you're starting to see increased net check account growth. We're focused on primary check account growth. That should, and we believe will, lead to higher deposits that -- what you'll see is you're going to see more marketing.

因此，您開始看到淨支票帳戶的成長。我們專注於主要支票帳戶的成長。我們相信，這會帶來更高的存款——你會看到更多的行銷。

You're going to see more aggressive marketing. You're going to see more merchandising in our branches. You're going to see more local advertising as well as national advertising as well as just expansion of footprint in areas where we think we have room to grow.

你會看到更積極的營銷。您將在我們的分店看到更多的商品。您將會看到更多的本地廣告和全國性廣告，以及我們認為有成長空間的地區的業務擴張。

And so those are all things that we have been very, very cautious about doing up until now. And with the value proposition that we have for our customers and the strength of the brand and the great quality of the people here, we think we'll be able to compete very effectively.

所以，到目前為止，這些都是我們一直非常謹慎去做的事情。憑藉我們為客戶提供的價值主張、品牌實力以及這裡員工的優秀素質，我們認為我們將能夠非常有效地競爭。

And I remind people, we're not competing with a small number of banks. We're competing with a lot of banks out there that we believe we have a better value proposition for.

我提醒大家，我們並不是跟少數幾家銀行競爭。我們正在與許多銀行競爭，我們相信我們能為這些銀行提供更好的價值主張。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Ebrahim Poonawala。

I just wanted to follow up, Charlie, on what you said in terms of -- in one of your responses around nothing is going to change dramatically. 15% (inaudible) was like step number one, which you were at 2Q again, just one quarter. I appreciate that.

查理，我只是想跟進一下你所說的內容——在你的一個回答中，沒有什麼會發生重大變化。 15%（聽不清楚）就像第一步，你又回到了第二季度，只有一個季度。我很感激。

But I think the (inaudible) way to look at this -- you mentioned the world grow aggressively many, many times on the call. And I think that the concern from an investor standpoint is a lot of this growth may come from -- at the cost of ROTCE. I don't think that's what you're saying.

但我認為（聽不清楚）看待這個問題的方式——您在電話中多次提到世界正在積極成長。我認為，從投資者的角度來看，這種成長很大程度上可能來自於——以 ROTCE 為代價。我不認為這是你所說的。

But just give us a sense of the lens with which you're looking at these growth, be it on consumer deposits, commercial deposits. Could it be that we could see a near-term hit in terms of profitability before things pick up and you gain more wallet share?

但請讓我們了解您看待這些成長的視角，無論是消費者存款還是商業存款。在情況好轉並獲得更多錢包份額之前，我們是否會在盈利能力方面遭遇短期打擊？

Just how should we think about the impact on the next 6, 12, 18 months of returns? And are there offsetting factors on the expense side or productivity side that could mitigate things that you do to pursue growth?

我們究竟該如何看待這對未來 6、12、18 個月報酬的影響？在費用方面或生產力方面是否存在抵消因素，可以減輕您為追求成長而採取的措施？

I mean, we don't mean to imply at all that we will sacrifice returns for growth. As we do all of our planning and we think about the opportunities, we think the things that we're going to do to grow the company will actually be very focused on continuing to increase the returns that we have.

我的意思是，我們絕對沒有暗示要為了成長而犧牲回報。當我們進行所有規劃並思考機會時，我們認為，我們為發展公司所要做的事情實際上將非常注重繼續增加我們的回報。

So please don't take anything that we've said is anything under that -- other than we continue to be very focused on those two things. You do raise the question about expenses. We do point out in the remarks that we made that we continue to be very, very focused on using the expense resource that we have as wisely as we can.

因此，請不要將我們所說的任何內容視為低於這一水平的內容——除了我們繼續高度關注這兩件事之外。您確實提出了有關費用的問題。我們確實在評論中指出，我們將繼續非常非常注重盡可能明智地利用我們擁有的支出資源。

And so that means that we are still focused on continuing to drive efficiencies in the company and, as we've done up until now, hope to be able to use this material part of the efficiencies that we continue to drive in the company as a way to pay for a lot of the investments that we intend to make. But that is very consistent with what we've done.

這意味著我們仍然專注於繼續提高公司的效率，正如我們迄今為止所做的那樣，希望能夠利用我們在公司中繼續提高的效率的這一重要部分來支付我們打算進行的大量投資。但這與我們所做的非常一致。

So even as we've increased marketing spend, we've increased the number of hires that we have in the Corporate Investment Bank, we've increased the hires in the commercial bank, we've increased the number of bankers that we've had in the consumer business, we've increased the number of financial advisers that we have, we haven't stood up and say that those things are dilutive to returns.

因此，即使我們增加了行銷支出，增加了企業投資銀行的招聘人數，增加了商業銀行的招聘人數，增加了消費者業務的銀行家人數，增加了財務顧問的數量，我們也沒有站出來說這些會稀釋回報。

It's just the opposite. We've been able to do those things because we're driving efficiency elsewhere in the company. And those things will drive increased revenue over a period of time and ultimately higher returns.

事實恰恰相反。我們之所以能夠做到這些，是因為我們正在提高公司其他部門的效率。這些因素將在一段時間內推動收入增加，並最終帶來更高的回報。

So we're continuing to think about those things the exact same way we've been thinking about them. And I would just say that we -- as I've said every quarter, including, I think we said it on the last quarter, we continue to feel like there are significant opportunities to drive efficiencies in the company, both traditionally and through technology, including AI.

因此，我們將繼續以與以往完全相同的方式來思考這些事情。我只想說，正如我每個季度都說過的那樣，包括上個季度，我們仍然覺得公司有很大機會提高效率，無論是透過傳統方式還是透過技術，包括人工智慧。

And the only thing I'll just make sure we're clear on is, yes, we had 15% ROTCE in the quarter, but we also recognized that we had to gain in the -- in our merchant services business. So we don't really think about that as ongoing. So we would say it's still a little bit lower, even though we were running capital levels at before the SCB adjustment was put in place.

我唯一要確保我們清楚的是，是的，我們本季的 ROTCE 為 15%，但我們也意識到我們必須在商家服務業務中獲利。所以我們並不認為這是持續發生的事情。因此，儘管我們的資本水準在實施 SCB 調整之前就已經達到了，但我們認為它仍然略低一些。

Got it. And maybe a separate question, Mike, for you in terms of NII. The market's view on what the Fed might do keeps changing. I appreciate that.

知道了。麥克，也許還有一個關於 NII 的單獨問題想問你。市場對聯準會可能採取的行動的看法不斷變化。我很感激。

But remind us in terms of asset sensitivity as we put into context, like the sequential growth in NII in the back half and maybe into next year. But how should we think about what three or four rate cuts would do to the balance sheet and the ability to maybe offset that given the growth outlook that you saw?

但請提醒我們，在資產敏感性方面，我們要考慮到下半年以及明年 NII 的連續成長。但是，考慮到您所看到的成長前景，我們應該如何看待三到四次降息會對資產負債表產生什麼影響，以及是否有能力抵消這種影響？

Look, I mean, we're -- we look at the implied forwards and what the market's pricing in on cuts obviously. And so that's also embedded in the view of where NII is trending as we look into the latter part of the year.

你看，我的意思是，我們正在看隱含的遠期匯率以及市場對降息的定價。因此，當我們展望今年下半年時，這也反映在了 NII 的發展趨勢中。

And obviously, even with that, you're going to see pricing come down on the deposit side and the commercial businesses. You're going to see continued repricing on the fixed asset components of the balance sheet.

顯然，即使如此，你仍會看到存款和商業業務的價格下降。您將會看到資產負債表中固定資產部分的持續重新定價。

And then you're going to see -- hopefully, start to see some more growth come out of it that will also help from an NII perspective. And so all those things will -- should be constructive as you look forward, despite what could be rates coming down a little.

然後你會看到——希望開始看到更多的成長，這也將從國家資訊基礎設施的角度有所幫助。因此，儘管利率可能會略有下降，但展望未來，所有這些事情都應該是建設性的。

Matt O'Connor, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的馬特·奧康納。

I was hoping you could just provide some clarity on the net interest income ex markets this quarter. I was having a hard time in finding that. And then maybe just give the guidance or comments on the full-year guide on other markets just to clarify.

我希望您能對本季的市場淨利息收入做出一些澄清。我花了好長時間才找到它。然後也許只是對其他市場的全年指南給出指導或評論，以便澄清。

We don't break out the components in total across markets versus non markets. That's not something we've historically done. I think when you look under what's happening in the NII ex markets, there's lots of puts and takes across the balance sheet.

我們不會按市場和非市場來細分總體組成部分。這不是我們歷史上做過的事。我認為，當你觀察 NII 前市場發生的情況時，你會發現資產負債表上有很多看跌和看漲的情況。

I think if you look at the -- rates in general are about what we expected, plus or minus a little bit. So that's -- the change in rates that we've seen throughout the year is not impacting our guide really in any significant way.

我認為如果你看一下——總體利率與我們預期的差不多，略有上下浮動。所以，我們全年看到的利率變化並沒有對我們的指南產生任何重大影響。

You've seen slightly higher payment rates in places like credit cards. So that's probably muting balances there just a little bit as well as some other factors there.

您會看到信用卡等付款方式的支付率略高一些。因此，這可能會稍微減弱那裡的平衡，以及其他一些因素。

And so loan growth, depending on the -- outside of card, has been a little bit slower. Deposits are mostly behaving the way we thought. We're not seeing any significant -- or we're seeing really the trends of any cash rebalancing into higher yields has been stable now for a bit for a number of quarters.

因此，貸款成長（取決於信用卡以外的因素）會稍微慢一些。存款的走勢大多與我們想像的一致。我們沒有看到任何顯著的——或者我們真正看到的是，任何現金再平衡為更高收益率的趨勢在幾個季度內都已經保持穩定。

And so we're not seeing that change in any significant way. And so I'd say overall, the trends ex markets are pretty stable to what we've seen over the last couple of quarters and largely consistent with what we've expected to see with a few puts and takes across the different portfolios.

因此，我們沒有看到任何顯著的變化。因此，我想說，總體而言，市場趨勢與我們過去幾季所看到的趨勢相當穩定，並且與我們預期在不同投資組合中看到的一些看跌期權走勢基本一致。

And I'm sure you guys have heard it before, but just as you're growing the trading business, I think the clarity on the trading that over time would be helpful.

我相信你們以前就聽說過，但隨著你們交易業務的成長，我認為隨著時間的推移，對交易的清晰度會有所幫助。

And then just separately want to ask about the lower tax rate this quarter and, somewhat related, just the impact of the new legislation reducing clean energy tax credits. I think there are some puts and takes there as you think about some stuff going away and some stuff that you might be able to do that you're not doing now. So just a broader tax this quarter going forward.

然後，我想單獨詢問本季的較低稅率，以及與此相關的新立法減少清潔能源稅收抵免的影響。我認為，當你考慮某些東西會消失，而某些東西你現在可能可以做，但是現在卻沒有做時，就會出現一些得失。因此，本季的稅收範圍將擴大。

On the last piece on the tax credits, that will be a few years out before you see anything -- any real impact on that in terms of new projects that will come on. So it will be a while before you start to see that matter much. The broader bill doesn't have a lot of direct impacts relative to the taxes other than the tax credit piece, a few small things.

關於稅收抵免的最後一部分，還需要幾年時間才能看到它對即將實施的新項目產生的任何實際影響。因此，你還需要一段時間才能開始意識到這一點。除了稅收抵免部分和一些小問題外，更廣泛的法案對稅收沒有太多直接影響。

I think just more broadly on the tax line, there's always puts and takes on tax line given how big we are. There's a few things in the quarter that probably brought the tax line a little bit -- the tax rate down a little bit lower than what you see over a longer time period, including a California tax change that changed the way they do revenue attribution and a few other wacky items that changed it.

我認為，從更廣泛的稅收角度來看，考慮到我們的規模，稅收方面總是存在著利弊。本季的一些事件可能使稅率有所下降——稅率比較長時期內的稅率略低，其中包括加州稅收改革改變了其收入歸屬方式，以及其他一些導致稅率改變的奇怪事件。

And so our view on the tax rate over a longer period of time is still high teens tax rate is probably the right place given what we see over a longer period of time. But there always seems to be stuff in each quarter that changes that a little bit.

因此，從長期來看，我們對稅率的看法仍然是，從長期來看，青少年的高稅率可能是正確的。但似乎每季總是會發生一些事情來稍微改變這一點。

Erika Najarian, UBS.

瑞銀的 Erika Najarian。

I wanted to ask another question about capital, Charlie. Everyone appreciates that the regulatory reform is in flux. You mentioned earlier an 8.6% minimum on CET1. And your current CET1 level implies a 140-basis-point minimum to that 9.7%.

查理，我想問另一個有關資本的問題。每個人都意識到監管改革正在不斷變化。您之前提到 CET1 的最低分數為 8.6%。而您目前的 CET1 水準意味著該 9.7% 至少需要 140 個基點。

I'm just wondering, as we think about where you should operate going forward, are you saying that you want to take the time to make sure that that 8.5% is something that is a little bit sustainable if we get GSIB before, if we get more comprehensive stress test reform? And if that's the case, is 140 basis points still an appropriate buffer, which would imply that your minimum with buffer would be about 10%?

我只是想知道，當我們考慮您未來的營運方向時，您是否想花時間確保如果我們提前獲得 GSIB，如果我們進行更全面的壓力測試改革，那麼 8.5% 的利率是可持續的？如果是這樣的話，140 個基點是否仍然是一個適當的緩衝，這是否意味著您的最低緩衝率約為 10%？

Listen, I think I tried to answer this before. I think the way -- we're in a period of time where we have seen -- over a 13-month period, we've seen our capital requirement go up like 100 -- 190 basis points. And then we saw it come down 120 basis points.

聽著，我想我以前嘗試回答過這個問題。我認為，我們正處於一個時期，在 13 個月的時間裡，我們的資本需求上升了 100 到 190 個基點。然後我們看到它下降了 120 個基點。

The Fed has said that we're going to give you more information which would be super helpful to us so that we can understand what the future volatility looks like. One would presume that with this administration and the types of things that they're saying, that the lower level is probably more indicative of what the future would look like rather than the higher level.

聯準會表示，我們將向你們提供更多對我們非常有幫助的信息，以便我們了解未來的波動情況。人們會認為，就本屆政府及其所說的話而言，較低層次的言論可能比較高層次的言論更能預示未來會是什麼樣子。

But we just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to come and say, well, here's how we're going to -- here's a number that we're going to run with capital until we avail ourselves of the information that they tell us they're going to give us. So trying to directionally lower is the direction we're going, but we don't want it to be a moving target every quarter where we tell you something different.

但我們只是認為，這樣說是沒有多大意義的，好吧，這就是我們要做的事情——這是我們要用資本來運行的數字，直到我們利用他們告訴我們的他們將要給我們的信息。因此，嘗試定向降低是我們前進的方向，但我們不希望它成為一個每個季度都會移動的目標，我們會告訴你不同的事情。

We don't think that's like the right way to provide the information to you that we should be providing. So we just want to take that time to understand what the right level is, and we will also be thinking about other changes that they're making and any other changes to these moving pieces, what the right buffer will be.

我們認為這不是向您提供我們應該提供的資訊的正確方式。因此，我們只是想花些時間來了解正確的水平，並且我們還會考慮他們正在做的其他更改以及對這些移動部件的任何其他更改，正確的緩衝區是什麼。

But directionally, lower is certainly where things are going. But we don't know enough to actually tell you what that number should be yet.

但從方向來看，事情肯定是朝著更低的方向發展。但我們還不知道具體數字應該是多少。

And the good news is, right, we have a ton of excess capital. We have more flexibility to deploy it to help support clients and the broader economy here, right? And so that should give us more opportunity to use it. And then we'll bring it down.

好消息是，我們擁有大量的過剩資本。我們可以更靈活地部署它來幫助支援客戶和更廣泛的經濟，對嗎？因此這將給我們更多機會去使用它。然後我們就會把它放下來。

And I think we've shown over the last five years that we are not shy about returning capital back to shareholders through buybacks when we feel that's appropriate. And so hopefully, we can see that come through over the quarters.

我認為，過去五年我們已經表明，當我們認為合適時，我們並不羞於透過回購將資本返還給股東。因此，我們希望能夠在接下來的幾個季度中看到這一成果。

We won't like a really -- I mean, for us, like this is an incredibly interesting and fun time. I mean we're sitting here where, even with the constraints that we've had, I think we've like started to show that the things that we're doing have the ability to drive higher revenues across the company, regardless of what's happened in the NII cycle.

我們不會喜歡真的——我的意思是，對我們來說，這是一個非常有趣和有趣的時刻。我的意思是，即使我們面臨種種限制，但我認為我們已經開始表明，無論 NII 週期發生什麼，我們所做的事情都能夠推動整個公司的收入成長。

So we spent a lot of time talking about the things that we've been doing to focus on growing non-interest revenues, which have been -- which we've been doing because they're strategic opportunities, not just because of the balance sheet. So those strategic opportunities haven't changed, and those will continue to be there for us.

因此，我們花了很多時間討論我們一直在做的事情，重點是增加非利息收入，我們這樣做是因為它們是策略機遇，而不僅僅是因為資產負債表。所以這些戰略機會沒有改變，而且將繼續存在於我們身邊。

So we're still incredibly focused on increasing the non-interest revenues of the company, as we've seen we've been able to do. We're starting to see some loan growth. Yes, the loan growth hasn't turned out this year to be as much as we otherwise would have hoped when we first set our targets -- our guidance.

因此，我們仍然非常專注於增加公司的非利息收入，正如我們所看到的，我們已經能夠做到這一點。我們開始看到一些貸款成長。是的，今年的貸款成長並沒有達到我們最初設定目標（即指導價值）時的期望。

But overall, where we sit today and the types of things that we're seeing is certainly marginally better than what we have seen in terms of what we're seeing. We're starting to see deposit flows, as we've talked about.

但總體而言，我們今天所處的位置和所看到的情況肯定比我們過去所看到的情況要好一些。正如我們所討論的，我們開始看到存款流動。

We've got new account growth. We've got expenses in check. Credit is performing well. We've got more capital than we had the last time we had the conversation. We have less constraints.

我們的新帳戶有所成長。我們已經控制了開支。信貸表現良好。與上次談話相比，我們現在擁有的資本更多了。我們的限制較少。

So for us, as we sit here, even though there's a lot of work for us to do and we've got a lot to prove, we understand that. Those things all line up to be pretty exciting for the management team here.

所以對我們來說，當我們坐在這裡時，儘管我們有很多工作要做，我們還有很多事情要證明，但我們明白這一點。這些事情對於這裡的管理團隊來說都是相當令人興奮的。

I agree with that.

我同意這一點。

Betsy Graseck, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Betsy Graseck。

Charlie, I had a question about how you're thinking about the arc of expenses over the next period of time, call it, a year or two. With the asset cap removal, underlying question is, are there efficiencies that can be generated from investments you had to make that were unique to the asset cap period?

查理，我有一個問題，你如何看待未來一段時間（例如一兩年）的支出曲線。隨著資產上限的取消，潛在的問題是，在資產上限期間的投資是否可以產生效率？

And if so, with those efficiencies, is there reinvesting in everything you just mentioned on headcount to drive revenues? Or is there a technology angle to some of this reinvestment that we should be expecting? And how are you positioned for generating efficiencies from AI?

如果是這樣，那麼在提高了效率的情況下，是否會對您剛才提到的有關員工人數的所有方面進行再投資以增加收入？或者我們應該期待這些再投資中的一些技術角度嗎？您如何利用人工智慧來提高效率？

Sure. Let me start, Mike, and then you pick up because I've been getting all the questions here. So first of all, on the question of expenses related directly to the asset cap. We would -- so first of all, it's important to point out that the consent order, that had the asset cap is still in place.

當然。讓我先開始，麥克，然後你接著說，因為我一直在這裡收到所有的問題。首先，關於與資產上限直接相關的費用問題。我們會——首先，必須指出的是，帶有資產上限的同意令仍然有效。

And just as a reminder for those that haven't followed as closely as we do, the asset cap gets lifted when we adopt and implement a series of things. And then the full order gets lifted when the regulators view it as effective and sustainable. We obviously feel really good about the progress that we're making.

對於那些沒有像我們一樣密切關注的人來說，需要提醒的是，當我們採用和實施一系列措施時，資產上限就會被取消。當監管機構認為該命令有效且可持續時，該命令將被全面取消。我們顯然對所取得的進展感到非常滿意。

We feel very comfortable that we're getting there. But until that order is lifted, we've got to be very, very careful about just changing anything because of the plans that we put in place and the way we and the regulators go back validation.

我們對自己即將實現的目標感到非常欣慰。但在該命令解除之前，我們必須非常非常小心地改變任何事情，因為我們制定的計劃以及我們和監管機構的驗證方式。

So we're not assuming that there are -- that anything materially changes up to this point until that happens. And even then we'll be very, very careful. So as we think about the opportunities to drive efficiency, when we talk about the fact that there's still substantial opportunities away from our ability to just do things more efficiently from a risk and control perspective.

因此，我們不會假設──在那之前任何事情都不會發生實質的改變。即使那樣，我們也會非常非常小心。因此，當我們思考提高效率的機會時，我們會發現，從風險和控制的角度來看，我們仍然有很大的機會能夠更有效地完成工作。

And so we're continuing to focus on driving those things across the company. It's what you've seen quarter on quarter on quarter is our headcount has come down using attrition as much as we can as our friend to create those efficiencies. And yes, technology will be able to help that trajectory continue even more.

因此，我們將繼續致力於在整個公司範圍內推動這些事情。正如您所看到的，我們的員工人數逐季下降，我們盡可能減少人員流失，以提高效率。是的，技術將能夠幫助這一軌跡繼續下去。

We want to be careful about giving any long-term guidance beyond this year on expenses, which is why we've stopped. Because as we've said very consistently, we really like the idea of going through the planning cycle, being able to take a look at what we want to invest in, what we think we can drive in terms of efficiencies, and then give a number.

我們希望謹慎地提供今年以後的任何長期支出指導，這就是我們停止的原因。因為正如我們一直所說的那樣，我們真的很喜歡經歷規劃週期的想法，能夠看看我們想要投資什麼，我們認為我們可以在效率方面推動什麼，然後給出一個數字。

But I would say the same thing that we said is similar to the question that Ebrahim was asking before. We're very, very conscious of the fact that expenses are an important lever for us for us to be able to increase the returns for the company.

但我想說，我們所說的內容與 Ebrahim 之前提出的問題類似。我們非常清楚，費用是我們增加公司回報的重要槓桿。

And so hopefully, we'll be able to create the right balance by increasing the level of investments while we're keeping expenses in check and focus on not just driving more growth, but driving higher returns in the shorter and medium term as we've tried to do until now.

因此，希望我們能夠透過增加投資水準來創造適當的平衡，同時控制支出，並專注於不僅推動更多成長，而且像我們迄今為止努力做的那樣，在短期和中期內推動更高的回報。

And Betsy, I would just say from an AI perspective, it's very early to see any impact of any significance from AI. But we've got capabilities and pilots in our branch system and our op system and our call centers really across anywhere where you've got anything manual and a lot of people.

貝琪，我只想說，從人工智慧的角度來看，現在還無法看到人工智慧產生任何重大影響。但是，我們的分支系統、作業系統和呼叫中心已經具備了能力和試點，實際上遍布任何需要手動操作和大量人員的地方。

And those things are starting to mature a little bit, very early, but you're starting to see some of the benefits you thought you'd see in terms of efficiency start to come through some of the early use cases. But it's super, super early. And I think the impact will build over time there.

這些東西才剛開始成熟，但你開始看到你認為在效率方面會看到的一些好處，這些好處開始透過一些早期的用例顯現出來。但現在還非常非常早。我認為其影響會隨著時間的推移而逐漸增加。

Okay. And I know you said that you would address the ROTCE target when you hit the 15%, which you did this quarter. So can you give us a sense of the timing when we should expect that you would be revisiting that target?

好的。我知道您說過，當您達到 15% 時，您會解決 ROTCE 目標，而您本季確實做到了。那麼，您能否告訴我們何時會重新審視這個目標？

Just as a reminder, the 15% that we reported this quarter did include the merchant services gain. So again, we're trying to be as transparent as we can and look through that and some stuff you saw in taxes. So we don't -- we're not declaring victory on getting to the 15% yet.

提醒一下，我們本季報告的 15% 確實包括了商家服務收益。因此，我們再次嘗試盡可能透明，並仔細研究這些以及您在稅收中看到的一些內容。所以我們還沒有——我們還沒有宣佈在達到 15% 的目標上取得勝利。

And then -- so maybe as we get towards the end of the year and we talk about next year, we'll talk a little bit more about the timing on those things and recognize that people want to understand a little bit more about how we're thinking about the future.

然後——也許當我們接近年底並談論明年時，我們會更多地談論這些事情的時間安排，並認識到人們想更多地了解我們對未來的看法。

Super. So maybe the January call post the strategy deck?

極好的。那麼也許一月份的電話會議會發布策略演講？

We'll see. We hear you though.

我們將拭目以待。但我們聽到了你的聲音。

John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

約翰·潘卡里（John Pancari），Evercore ISI。

Just want to see if you can give us a little bit more color on the loan yields this quarter. It looks like they were relatively flat. I guess overall, I would have expected an increase given some of the front book, back book dynamics.

只是想看看您是否可以提供一些有關本季度貸款收益率的詳細資訊。看起來它們相對平坦。我想總體而言，考慮到前書和後書的一些動態，我本來預計會出現成長。

So can you maybe talk us through some of the puts and takes and your expectation as you look out given the rate environment and the curve outlook as well?

那麼，您能否向我們介紹一下在利率環境和曲線前景下您的一些利弊以及預期？

I mean when you look at spreads there, particularly on the commercial side, John, it's still very competitive. And so there's been a couple of spots where you see a little bit of widening of spreads, but not a lot.

我的意思是，當你看到那裡的利差時，特別是在商業方面，約翰，它仍然非常有競爭力。因此，在幾個地方，你會看到價差略有擴大，但幅度並不大。

In most cases, what's holding spreads to be as tight as they are is really the competition we're seeing across the space, particularly in the middle market, commercial banking side of things. And so that's what's driving it when you look at that side of the house.

在大多數情況下，利差之所以如此之小，實際上是因為我們在整個領域都看到了競爭，特別是在中端市場和商業銀行方面的競爭。所以，當你看到房子的那一側時，這就是驅動它的原因。

And did that competition intensify to a greater degree than you may have thought? But it seems like a higher loan yield expectation would have been fair to assume.

競爭是否比你想像的更加激烈？但似乎更高的貸款收益率預期是合理的。

No, it's been pretty consistent now for a number of quarters, right? It ebbs and flows a little bit depending on which part of the country or which segment you may be talking about, but it's been -- the competition has been pretty intense there for a while. And so you're just not seeing the widening that you might if -- in a slowing economic environment. That's just not materializing that way.

不，現在已經連續幾季保持相當穩定了，對嗎？根據你談論的是國家的哪個部分或哪個領域，它會起伏，但那裡的競爭已經相當激烈了。因此，在經濟環境放緩的情況下，你不會看到可能的擴張。但這根本就無法實現。

Okay. And then I'll -- my follow-up would be related to that, too. Like where are you seeing that competitive pressure come from? Is it private credit? Is it other types of non-banks?

好的。然後我會——我的後續行動也與此相關。您認為競爭壓力來自哪裡？是私人信貸嗎？是其他類型的非銀行嗎？

We've heard some setting insurance players stepping up again in certain parts of real estate? Are there areas that you flagged? And then has that impacted anything around loan growth expectations?

我們聽說有些保險機構正在再次進軍房地產的某些領域？有沒有您標記過的區域？那麼這對貸款成長預期有什麼影響嗎？

I'd say still the primary competitor, particularly when you're talking about the middle market, commercial bank or other banks -- you certainly see other non-bank players at times in certain pieces of it. But the primary competitor still is other banks, and they vary depending on what part of the country you're in, obviously. But I think that's what's driving it mostly.

我想說，主要的競爭對手仍然是銀行，特別是當你談論中端市場、商業銀行或其他銀行時——你肯定會在某些領域看到其他非銀行參與者。但主要的競爭對手仍然是其他銀行，而且顯然，它們會根據您所在的國家/地區而有所不同。但我認為這是主要推動因素。

Gerard Cassidy, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Gerard Cassidy。

Mike, you talked about the growth in the commercial and industrial loans in the quarter. It was predominantly in the Corporate and Investment Bank. Can you give us a little more color and insights into where you saw that in that segment of the commercial and industrial loan portfolio growth?

麥克，您談到了本季商業和工業貸款的成長情況。它主要在企業和投資銀行。您能否向我們提供更多細節和見解，說明您在商業和工業貸款組合成長這一部分中看到了什麼？

Yeah, sure. It's across the board in a bunch of sectors, Gerard. But I'd say we're seeing growth in places like fund finance, which are our capital call facilities with big private equity firms. We're seeing we saw a little bit of growth in probably three or four sectors across the large corporate space, including TMT and industrial, healthcare.

是的，當然。杰拉德，這涉及多個領域。但我想說，我們看到基金融資等領域的成長，這些是我們與大型私募股權公司合作的資本調用工具。我們看到，大型企業領域中的三、四個產業都出現了小幅成長，包括 TMT、工業和醫療保健。

So a little bit across the board. You're also seeing some more asset-backed loan growth coming out of our markets business across whether it's mortgages or other types of collateral, a tiny bit of growth in prime brokerage. And so it really is across the board in terms of a number of different areas within the Corporate Investment Bank.

所以有點全面。您還會看到，我們的市場業務中，無論是抵押貸款還是其他類型的抵押品，資產支持貸款都有所增長，而大宗經紀業務則出現了小幅增長。因此，就企業投資銀行內部的許多不同領域而言，這確實是全面的。

Very good. And you guys have talked a lot about improving efficiencies and improving profitability of -- with the asset cap being lifted, a pivoting question. You talked about exiting the rail equipment leasing business, and you've exited other businesses over the years.

非常好。你們已經談了很多關於提高效率和提高獲利能力的問題——隨著資產上限的取消，這是一個關鍵問題。您談到退出鐵路設備租賃業務，這些年來您已經退出了其他業務。

Are there any other businesses left that are not meeting your internal profitability targets possibly that could enhance the longer-term profitability of the company? Or is this essentially for divesting of different segments?

是否還有其他業務未達到您的內部獲利目標，但可能增強公司的長期獲利能力？或者這本質上是為了剝離不同的業務？

The rail portfolio was really the last thing of any size. I mean we looked at the businesses a few years ago now and methodically worked our way through each of them. And really, the rail portfolio is the last of those.

鐵路投資組合確實是規模最小的。我的意思是，幾年前我們就研究過這些業務，並且有條不紊地對它們進行研究。事實上，鐵路投資組合是其中最後一個。

Chris McGratty, KBW.

克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

Just on operating leverage a little bit more broadly. The markets feel better today, the more optimism in markets. But certainly, we know that's fluid. I know you touched briefly on it, but just maybe unpacking the degree of confidence in the operating leverage over the medium term and then, I guess, both sides of the revenue and the expenses.

只是更廣泛地討論一下經營槓桿。今天市場感覺更好，市場情緒更樂觀。但當然，我們知道這是不穩定的。我知道您簡要地提到了這一點，但也許只是解開了中期經營槓桿的信心程度，然後我想，還有收入和支出的兩方面。

Chris, look, I'd just come back to what we talked about a little bit earlier in the call. I think on the expense side, we feel as confident as we can be that there's a lot more to do on the efficiency side of it. And over the last four or five years, we've taken out $12 billion already.

克里斯，聽著，我剛剛回到了我們剛才在電話中談到的話題。我認為在費用方面，我們非常有信心在效率方面還有很多工作要做。在過去四、五年裡，我們已經支出了120億美元。

You've seen headcount come down by 20 consecutive quarters in a row. And so we're going to continue to focus on that. And it's how we start all of our conversations with the business leaders and our budgeting or each quarter we go through it.

您已經看到員工人數連續 20 個季度下降。因此我們將繼續關注這一點。這就是我們與企業領導人開始所有對話以及製定預算或每季預算的方式。

And so I think there's more to do there, really across almost every part of the company. And I think we'll continue to drive that the same way we've done that the last number of years. And look, I think on the revenue side, I just come back to the broader opportunity that we have to grow across each of the businesses.

因此我認為，實際上公司幾乎每個部門都還有很多工作要做。我認為我們將繼續按照過去幾年的方式推動這項進程。看看，我認為在收入方面，我只是回到了我們必須在每項業務中實現成長的更廣泛的機會。

How that manifests itself in any given quarter is a little a lot out of your control to some degree, given how markets can be. But I do think across every single one of our businesses, there's a tremendous amount of opportunity to grow. And so I think that's -- those two things together should provide growth and profitability and returns over the long run.

考慮到市場狀況，這一點在任何一個季度如何體現，在某種程度上都是超出你控制範圍的。但我確實認為，我們的每一項業務都蘊藏著巨大的成長機會。所以我認為——從長遠來看，這兩件事結合起來應該會帶來成長、獲利和回報。

And we have no more questions at this time.

目前我們沒有其他問題。

Great. We appreciate the time andlook forward to talking to you next quarter. Thank you.

偉大的。我們感謝您的時間並期待下個季度與您交談。謝謝。

Thank you all for your participation on today's conference call. At this time, all participants may disconnect.

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。此時，所有參與者都可以斷開連線。