富國銀行 (WFC) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome and thank you for joining the Wells Fargo Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that today's call is being recorded.

歡迎並感謝您參加富國銀行 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to John Campbell, Director of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin the conference.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係總監約翰坎貝爾 (John Campbell)。主席先生，您可以開始會議了。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our call today where our CEO, Charlie Scharf; and our CFO, Mike Santomassimo, will discuss third quarter results and answer your questions. This call is being recorded.

大家，早安。感謝您今天參加我們的電話會議，我們的執行長 Charlie Scharf；我們的財務長 Mike Santomassimo 將討論第三季業績並回答您的問題。此通話正在錄音。

Before we get started, I would like to remind you that our third quarter earnings materials, including the release, financial supplement and presentation deck, are available on our website at wellsfargo.com. I'd also like to caution you that we may make forward-looking statements during today's call that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are detailed in our SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed today containing our earnings materials. Information about any non-GAAP financials referenced, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures, can also be found in our SEC filings and the earnings materials available on our website.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，我們的第三季收益資料，包括新聞稿、財務補充和簡報，可在我們的網站 wellsfargo.com 上取得。我還想提醒您，我們可能在今天的電話會議中做出前瞻性聲明，這些聲明有風險和不確定性。我們向 SEC 提交的文件中詳細介紹了可能導致實際結果與預期存在重大差異的因素，其中包括今天提交的包含我們盈利材料的 8-K 表格。有關所引用的任何非 GAAP 財務數據的信息，包括這些措施與 GAAP 措施的調節，也可以在我們向 SEC 提交的文件和我們網站上提供的收益資料中找到。

I will now turn the call over to Charlie.

我現在將把電話轉給查理。

Thanks very much, John. I'll make some brief comments about our third quarter results and update you on our priorities. I'll then turn the call over to Mike to review third quarter results in more detail before we take your questions.

非常感謝，約翰。我將對我們第三季的業績發表一些簡短的評論，並向您介紹我們的優先事項的最新情況。然後，在我們回答您的問題之前，我會將電話轉給麥克，以更詳細地審查第三季的業績。

Let me start with some third quarter highlights. Our results reflected the progress we're making to improve our financial performance. Revenue, pretax provision profit, net income, diluted earnings per common share and ROTCE were all higher than a year ago. Our revenue reflected strong net interest income growth as well as higher noninterest income as we benefited from higher rates and the investments we're making in our businesses. Our expenses declined from a year ago due to lower operating losses.

讓我從第三季的一些亮點開始。我們的結果反映了我們在改善財務表現方面所取得的進展。收入、稅前撥備利潤、淨利、稀釋後每股普通股收益和 ROTCE 均高於去年同期。我們的收入反映了強勁的淨利息收入成長以及更高的非利息收入，因為我們受益於更高的利率和我們對業務的投資。由於經營虧損減少，我們的費用較上年同期下降。

As expected, net charge-offs have continued to increase from historical low levels, and we increased our allowance for credit losses primarily driven by our office portfolio as well as growth in our credit card portfolio. Average commercial and consumer loans were both down from the second quarter as higher rates and a slowing economy have weakened loan demand, and we've continued to take some credit tightening actions.

正如預期的那樣，淨沖銷繼續從歷史低點增加，我們增加了信貸損失準備金，這主要是由我們的辦公室投資組合以及信用卡投資組合的成長所推動的。由於利率上升和經濟放緩削弱了貸款需求，平均商業和消費貸款均較第二季下降，我們繼續採取一些信貸緊縮措施。

Average deposits also declined from the second quarter and a year ago driven by consumer spending as well as customers migrating to higher-yielding alternatives. Consumer spending remains strong with third quarter year-over-year growth rates for both credit and debit card spending increasing from the second quarter.

由於消費者支出以及客戶轉向收益較高的替代品，平均存款也較第二季和一年前下降。消費者支出依然強勁，第三季信用卡和金融卡支出的年增率較第二季增加。

Now let me update you on the progress we're making on our strategic priorities, starting with risk and control work, which remains our top priority. As time goes on, we continue to make the progress necessary to complete our work. I've said that we have detailed project plans which track interim deliverables, not just the date the work is to be finalized and turned over to the regulators for validation.

現在，讓我向您介紹我們在策略重點方面取得的最新進展，首先是風險和控制工作，這仍然是我們的首要任務。隨著時間的推移，我們將繼續取得完成工作所需的進展。我說過，我們有詳細的專案計劃來追蹤臨時可交付成果，而不僅僅是工作完成並移交給監管機構進行驗證的日期。

The work is not finalized all at once. It's not as if there's a big bang conversion at the conclusion of a big body of work. It's just the opposite. Building our risk and control framework is a continuous ongoing effort. We are implementing changes throughout the life of the project, and we track effectiveness along the way.

這項工作並不是一下子就完成的。這並不是說在大量工作結束時會出現一次大爆炸式的轉變。事實恰恰相反。建立我們的風險和控制框架是一項持續不斷的努力。我們在專案的整個生命週期中實施變革，並追蹤有效性。

The numerous internal metrics we track show that the work is clearly improving our control environment, but we will not be satisfied until all of our work is complete. We remain focused on the work ahead even as we are making progress. But I will repeat what I've said in the past: regulatory pressure on banks with long-standing issues such as ours continues to grow. And until we complete our work and until it is validated by our regulators, we remain at risk of further regulatory actions. Additionally, until our work is complete, we could find new issues that need to be remediated, and these may result in additional regulatory actions.

我們追蹤的眾多內部指標表明，這項工作明顯改善了我們的控制環境，但在所有工作完成之前我們不會感到滿意。即使我們正在取得進展，我們仍然專注於未來的工作。但我會重複我過去說過的話：像我們這樣有長期問題的銀行面臨的監管壓力持續增加。在我們完成工作並得到監管機構驗證之前，我們仍然面臨進一步監管行動的風險。此外，在我們的工作完成之前，我們可能會發現需要修復的新問題，而這些問題可能會導致額外的監管行動。

We also continued to take steps to advance our business strategy, which includes focusing on our core business and customers. We sold approximately $2 billion of private equity investments in certain Norwest Equity Partners and Norwest Mezzanine Partners funds. We are also making a number of investments to better serve our customers.

我們也繼續採取措施推進我們的業務策略，其中包括專注於我們的核心業務和客戶。我們出售了 Norwest Equity Partners 和 Norwest Mezzanine Partners 基金中約 20 億美元的私募股權投資。我們也進行了大量投資，以更好地服務我們的客戶。

As a leader in U.S. middle-market and asset-based lending, we're focused on finding ways to support our clients with the recently announced strategic relationship with Centerbridge Partners. Our middle-market clients will have greater access to alternative sources of capital that can be used to pursue a broader set of growth and value-creation initiatives across a variety of market conditions. Branches continue to play an important role in the way we serve our customers, and we continue to optimize our network, but we also look at targeted expansions in markets where we see opportunities for our franchise.

作為美國中間市場和資產貸款領域的領導者，我們致力於透過最近宣布的與 Centerbridge Partners 的策略合作關係來尋找為客戶提供支援的方法。我們的中間市場客戶將有更多機會獲得替代資本來源，這些來源可用於在各種市場條件下追求更廣泛的成長和價值創造計劃。分支機構在我們服務客戶的方式中繼續發揮著重要作用，我們繼續優化我們的網絡，但我們也著眼於在我們看到特許經營機會的市場進行有針對性的擴張。

Last week, we announced we are expanding our branch network in Chicago, where we only have 7 branches today. We also continue to make enhancements to our mobile app. And in the third quarter, we launched Stock Fractions, giving Wells trade clients the ability to buy fractions of company's stocks to help build a diversified portfolio regardless of stock price.

上週，我們宣布正在擴大芝加哥的分行網絡，目前我們在芝加哥只有 7 家分行。我們也繼續增強我們的行動應用程式。在第三季度，我們推出了股票碎片，讓 Wells 交易客戶能夠購買公司股票的碎片，以幫助建立多元化的投資組合，無論股價如何。

Just yesterday, we announced the expanded availability of LifeSync to all consumer customers. Available on the mobile app, LifeSync is our personalized digital approach to aligning customers' goals with their money and was launched to all Wealth and Investment Management clients earlier this year. Customers' goals entered in LifeSync will be visible to bankers to enhance need-based conversations.

就在昨天，我們宣布向所有消費者客戶擴展 LifeSync 的可用性。 LifeSync 可在行動應用程式上使用，是我們的個人化數位方法，旨在使客戶的目標與資金保持一致，並於今年稍早向所有財富和投資管理客戶推出。銀行家可以看到客戶在 LifeSync 中輸入的目標，以加強基於需求的對話。

We also expanded the capabilities of Fargo, our AI-powered virtual assistant and recently added the ability for customers to communicate with Fargo in Spanish. These enhanced capabilities are just the latest of our ongoing investments to deliver seamless and consistent experiences across all our channels. We are seeing more mobile adoption momentum, adding over 520,000 mobile active users in the third quarter, our best quarterly growth since first quarter of 2021.

我們也擴展了人工智慧虛擬助理 Fargo 的功能，最近也增加了客戶用西班牙語與 Fargo 溝通的功能。這些增強的功能只是我們持續投資的最新成果，旨在跨所有管道提供無縫且一致的體驗。我們看到了更多的行動採用勢頭，第三季度行動活躍用戶增加了 520,000 名，這是我們自 2021 年第一季以來的最佳季度增長。

We've also continued to make important hires who bring expertise to Wells Fargo and businesses we're looking to grow. Before I highlight some of our new leaders, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Bill Daley, Vice Chairman of Public Affairs, who's retiring at the end of this year for all he has accomplished since he joined the company in 2019. Bill has been an invaluable asset to the company, and we benefited from his long experience in both the public and private sectors. During this time at Wells Fargo, he helped strengthen our relationships with communities we serve, established new programs in housing and small business, and worked to rebuild our reputation both locally and nationally.

我們也繼續聘請重要員工，為富國銀行和我們希望發展的企業帶來專業知識。在重點介紹我們的一些新領導者之前，我想藉此機會感謝公共事務副主席 Bill Daley，他將於今年年底退休，感謝他自 2019 年加入公司以來所取得的一切成就。Bill Daley一直是公司的寶貴資產，我們受益於他在公共和私營部門的長期經驗。在富國銀行任職期間，他幫助加強了我們與所服務社區的關係，制定了住房和小型企業的新計劃，並努力重建我們在當地和全國的聲譽。

I'm pleased to have announced that Tom Nides joined Wells Fargo as Vice Chairman earlier this month. Tom will be a close adviser to the senior management team on a range of issues, and we will work alongside our business leaders as we continue to expand our relationships with clients. The breadth of Tom's experience across the public and private sectors will be an important asset to us as we continue to move the company ahead.

我很高興地宣布湯姆·尼德斯本月早些時候加入富國銀行擔任副主席。湯姆將在一系列問題上擔任高階管理團隊的密切顧問，我們將與我們的業務領導者一起努力，繼續擴大與客戶的關係。湯姆在公共和私營部門的廣泛經驗將成為我們繼續推動公司前進的重要資產。

We continue to invest in our Corporate Investment Banking business with new co-heads of equity capital markets. These new hires complement the other important hires we've been making over the past year. We also hired a new Head of Trust Services and Chief Fiduciary Officer in our Wealth and Investment Management segment and a new Head of Affluent and Premier Banking in consumer, small and business banking.

我們繼續與新的股權資本市場聯席主管一起投資我們的企業投資銀行業務。這些新員工是我們去年招募的其他重要員工的補充。我們還聘請了財富和投資管理部門的新信託服務主管和首席信託官，以及消費者、小型和企業銀行業務的富裕和高級銀行業務主管。

We also continue to focus on better serving our communities. During the third quarter, we published 3 reports that provided overview of the work we are doing to build a sustainable, inclusive future in communities we serve; outline our strategic approach to managing the risks associated with climate change in deploying capital to support the transition to a low-carbon economy; and describe our methodology for aligning our financial portfolios with pathways to net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and presenting interim emissions-based targets to track that alignment.

我們也繼續致力於更好地服務我們的社區。在第三季度，我們發布了 3 份報告，概述了我們為在我們所服務的社區中建立可持續、包容的未來所做的工作；概述我們在部署資本支持向低碳經濟轉型時管理氣候變遷相關風險的策略方法；並描述我們使我們的金融投資組合與 2050 年實現溫室氣體淨零排放的途徑相一致的方法，並提出基於排放的中期目標來追蹤這種一致性。

We continue to make progress on our special-purpose credit program initiative we announced last year to help drive economic growth, sustainable homeownership and neighborhood stability in minority communities. We recently expanded our special-purpose refinance offers to prequalified Hispanic customers with Wells Fargo mortgages to refinance at a lower than market rate. The program launched last year for Black or African American customers has seen strong results, and the Hispanic offer has shown similar levels of customer engagement.

我們繼續在去年宣布的特殊用途信貸計畫舉措上取得進展，以幫助推動少數族裔社區的經濟成長、永續住房所有權和社區穩定。我們最近擴大了特殊用途再融資服務範圍，向透過富國銀行抵押貸款資格預審的西班牙裔客戶提供低於市場利率的再融資服務。去年針對黑人或非裔美國客戶推出的計畫取得了良好成果，西班牙裔客戶的參與度也表現出類似水準。

We also announced that we're offering a $10,000 homebuyer access grant that will be applied towards down payment for eligible homebuyers who currently live and work purchasing homes in certain underserved communities in 8 metropolitan areas. And we now have 14 HOPE Inside centers of Wells Fargo branches, including the first focusing on serving the Navajo community. The centers help engage and empower communities to achieve their financial goals through financial education workshops and free one-on-one coaching.

我們還宣布，我們將提供 10,000 美元的購房者准入補助金，該補助金將用於支付目前在 8 個大都市區某些服務欠缺社區購買住房的符合條件的購房者的首付。我們現在在富國銀行分行擁有 14 個 HOPE Inside 中心，其中包括第一個專注於為納瓦霍社區提供服務的中心。這些中心透過金融教育研討會和免費的一對一輔導，幫助社區參與並賦予其實現財務目標的能力。

Looking ahead, the U.S. economy has continued to be resilient with key support from the labor and strength -- from the labor market and strength in consumer spending. Delinquencies have continued to deteriorate at a relatively slow consistent rate without signs of acceleration across our portfolios. Our base case remains a continued slowing of the economy, but we remain prepared for a wide range of scenarios given there is still significant uncertainty ahead.

展望未來，美國經濟將持續保持彈性，這主要得益於勞動力和實力——勞動市場和消費支出的強勁。拖欠率繼續以相對緩慢的持續速度惡化，但我們的投資組合沒有加速的跡象。我們的基本假設仍然是經濟持續放緩，但鑑於未來仍存在重大不確定性，我們仍為各種情況做好準備。

Regarding capital, the Basel III Endgame proposal included higher capital requirements as we expected. It's a complicated set of rules. But at this point, if nothing changed and we didn't take actions, we estimate that our RWA would increase by approximately 20%. There are some items that increased our capital requirements that we are hopeful will be adjusted, and we will be participating and sharing our perspectives on the proposed rules during the 120-day comment period.

關於資本，正如我們預期的那樣，《巴塞爾協議 III 終局之戰》提案包括了更高的資本要求。這是一套複雜的規則。但此時，如果沒有任何變化並且我們不採取行動，我們估計我們的 RWA 將增加約 20%。有些項目增加了我們的資本要求，我們希望能夠對其進行調整，我們將在 120 天的意見徵詢期內參與並分享我們對擬議規則的看法。

Additionally, we are evaluating changes we may make based on the proposed rules. Fortunately, we come into this from a strong position as our current capital levels are above the estimated regulatory minimum plus buffers. However, we still need to decide how much of an additional buffer we want to maintain and what mitigating actions we may want to take to reduce the impact of the new rules.

此外，我們正在評估我們可能根據提議的規則進行的更改。幸運的是，我們處於有利地位，因為我們目前的資本水準高於估計的監管最低水準加上緩衝。然而，我們仍然需要決定我們想要維持多少額外緩衝，以及我們可能想要採取哪些緩解措施來減少新規則的影響。

At this point, we still see a path to concurrently increasing our level of CET1 as appropriate, increasing our dividend and repurchasing common stock. Levels of each will be influenced by CCAR, the finalization of the proposed rules and economic conditions.

目前，我們仍然看到了一條適當提高 CET1 水準、增加股利和回購普通股的途徑。每個等級都將受到 CCAR、擬議規則的最終確定和經濟條件的影響。

I'll now turn the call over to Mike.

我現在將電話轉給麥克。

Thank you, Charlie, and good morning, everyone. Net income for the third quarter was $5.8 billion or $1.48 per diluted common share, both up from the second quarter and a year ago. Our third quarter results included $349 million or $0.09 per share of discrete tax benefits related to the resolution of prior period tax matters.

謝謝你，查理，大家早安。第三季淨利為 58 億美元，每股稀釋普通股 1.48 美元，均高於第二季及去年同期。我們第三季的業績包括 3.49 億美元或每股 0.09 美元的與解決前期稅務問題相關的離散稅收優惠。

Turning to capital and liquidity on Slide 3. Our CET1 ratio increased to 11% in the third quarter, 2.1 percentage points above our new regulatory minimum plus buffers effective on October 1. This was up from 10.7% in the second quarter as higher earnings, the approximately 14 basis point benefit from the sale of certain private equity investments and lower risk-weighted assets were only partially offset by share repurchases and dividends.

轉向幻燈片3 上的資本和流動性。第三季度，我們的CET1 比率增至11%，比10 月1 日生效的新監管最低標準和緩衝措施高出2.1 個百分點。隨著收益的增加，這一比率高於第二季的10.7%，出售某些私募股權投資和較低風險加權資產帶來的約 14 個基點的收益僅被股票回購和股息部分抵銷。

During the third quarter, we repurchased $1.5 billion in common stock. Our strong capital levels position us well for the anticipated increases related to the Basel III Endgame proposal released in the third quarter. Based on where we ended the quarter, we estimate that our CET1 ratio would be 50 basis points above the fully phased-in required minimum if the proposed rules were implemented as written after factoring the growth in RWAs and the resulting decline in our stress capital buffer as well as the impact of the new G-SIB buffer calculation changes.

第三季度，我們回購了 15 億美元的普通股。我們強大的資本水準使我們能夠很好地應對與第三季發布的巴塞爾協議 III 終局提案相關的預期成長。根據我們本季末的情況，我們估計，如果在考慮RWA 的成長以及由此導致的壓力資本緩衝下降後按照書面規定實施擬議規則，我們的CET1 比率將比完全逐步實施的最低要求高出50 個基點以及新的 G-SIB 緩衝區計算變化的影響。

Importantly, this is an early estimate, subject to change and is before any actions we may take to mitigate the impact of the new rules. Looking forward, we expect to continue to have capacity to increase our CET1 ratio, while we plan to continue to repurchase shares as we wait for the capital rules to be finalized.

重要的是，這是一個早期估計，可能會發生變化，並且是在我們採取任何行動減輕新規則影響之前的估計。展望未來，我們預計將繼續有能力提高我們的CET1比率，同時我們計劃在等待資本規則最終確定的過程中繼續回購股票。

Turning to credit quality on Slide 5. As we expected, net loan charge-offs continue to increase, up 4 basis points from the second quarter to 36 basis points of average loans. Commercial net loan charge-offs declined modestly from the second quarter to 13 basis points of average loans as lower losses in our commercial and industrial portfolio were partially offset by $14 million of higher losses in commercial real estate.

轉向幻燈片 5 上的信貸品質。正如我們預期的那樣，淨貸款核銷繼續增加，比第二季度上升 4 個基點，達到平均貸款的 36 個基點。商業淨貸款沖銷較第二季小幅下降至平均貸款的 13 個基點，因為我們商業和工業投資組合的損失減少被商業房地產損失增加 1,400 萬美元部分抵消。

We had $32.2 billion of office loans, down 3% from the second quarter, which represented 3% of our total loans outstanding. Vacancy rates continue to be high and the office market remains weak. Our CRE teams continue to focus on monitoring and derisking the portfolio, which includes reducing exposures.

我們的辦公貸款為 322 億美元，比第二季下降 3%，佔未償還貸款總額的 3%。空置率持續居高不下，辦公室市場依然疲軟。我們的企業創投團隊繼續專注於監控和降低投資組合的風險，其中包括減少風險敞口。

As we highlighted in the past, each property situation is different and there are many variables that could determine performance, which is why we regularly review this portfolio. As expected, consumer net loan charge-offs continued to increase and were up $98 million from the second quarter to 67 basis points of average loans. Residential mortgage loans continued to have net recoveries, while our other consumer portfolios all had higher losses with the largest increase in our auto portfolio, which was up from the second quarter seasonal lows.

正如我們過去所強調的那樣，每種房地產情況都不同，並且有許多變數可以決定業績，這就是我們定期審查此投資組合的原因。如預期，消費者淨貸款沖銷持續增加，較第二季增加 9,800 萬美元，達到平均貸款的 67 個基點。住宅抵押貸款繼續實現淨回收，而我們的其他消費投資組合都出現了更高的損失，其中汽車投資組合增幅最大，高於第二季度的季節性低點。

Nonperforming assets increased 17% from the second quarter as growth in commercial real estate nonaccrual loans more than offset the decline in commercial and industrial as well as modest declines across all consumer portfolios. The decline in commercial industrial nonaccrual loans was primarily due to payoffs and paydowns, which is a good reminder that the resolution of nonperforming assets doesn't always result in charge-offs. The increase in commercial real estate nonaccrual loans was driven by a $1.3 billion increase in the office nonaccrual loan.

由於商業房地產非應計貸款的成長遠遠抵消了商業和工業的下降以及所有消費者投資組合的小幅下降，不良資產較第二季增加了 17%。商業工業非應計貸款的下降主要是由於還款和還款，這很好地提醒我們，不良資產的解決方案並不總是導致沖銷。商業房地產非應計貸款的成長是由辦公室非應計貸款增加 13 億美元所推動的。

Moving to Slide 6. Our allowance for credit losses increased $333 million in the third quarter primarily for commercial real estate office loans as well as for higher credit card loan balances, which was partially offset by a lower allowance for auto loans. Since the composition of our office portfolio is relatively consistent with what we shared with you in the past few quarters, we did not include a separate commercial real estate slide this quarter. However, we did update the table showing the allowance for credit losses coverage ratio for commercial real estate, including the breakdown of the office portfolio.

轉到幻燈片 6。第三季度，我們的信貸損失準備金增加了 3.33 億美元，主要用於商業房地產辦公貸款以及信用卡貸款餘額的增加，但汽車貸款準備金的減少部分抵消了這一損失。由於我們的辦公大樓投資組合的組成與我們在過去幾個季度與您分享的內容相對一致，因此本季我們沒有包含單獨的商業房地產幻燈片。不過，我們確實更新了顯示商業房地產信貸損失準備金覆蓋率的表格，包括辦公室投資組合的細目。

We've not seen significant increases in charge-offs in our commercial real estate office portfolio yet. However, we do expect higher losses over time, and we continue to increase the coverage ratio in our commercial and -- in our CIB commercial real estate office portfolio from 8.8% at the end of the second quarter to 10.8% at the end of the third quarter.

我們還沒有看到我們的商業房地產辦公室投資組合的沖銷顯著增加。然而，我們確實預計隨著時間的推移，損失會更大，並且我們將繼續提高我們的商業和CIB 商業房地產辦公室投資組合的覆蓋率，從第二季度末的8.8% 增加到本季度末的10.8 %。第三季。

On Slide 7, we highlight loans and deposits. Average loans were down modestly from both the second quarter and a year ago. While we continue to have good growth in credit card loans from the second quarter, most other portfolios declined. I'll highlight specific drivers when discussing our operating segment results. Average loan yields increased 195 basis points from a year ago and 24 basis points from the second quarter due to the higher interest rate environment.

在幻燈片 7 上，我們重點介紹了貸款和存款。平均貸款較第二季和一年前略有下降。儘管我們的信用卡貸款從第二季開始繼續保持良好成長，但大多數其他投資組合都出現了下降。在討論我們的營運部門績效時，我將重點放在具體的驅動因素。由於利率環境較高，平均貸款收益率較去年同期上升 195 個基點，較第二季上升 24 個基點。

Average deposits declined 5% from a year ago predominantly driven by deposit outflows in our consumer and wealth businesses, reflecting continued consumer spending and customers reallocating cash into higher-yielding alternatives. Average deposits also declined in Commercial Banking, while they stabilized in Corporate and Investment Banking.

平均存款較上年同期下降 5%，主要是由於我們的消費者和財富業務的存款外流，反映出持續的消費者支出和客戶將現金重新分配到收益更高的替代品上。商業銀行業務的平均存款也有所下降，而企業銀行和投資銀行業務的平均存款則趨於穩定。

As expected, our average deposit costs continued to increase, up 23 basis points from the second quarter of 236 basis points with higher deposit costs across all operating segments in response to rising interest rates. However, the pace of the increase has slowed, and our percentage of average noninterest-bearing deposits decreased modestly from the second quarter to 29% but remained above prepandemic levels.

如預期，我們的平均存款成本持續上升，較第二季的 236 個基點上升 23 個基點，所有營運部門的存款成本均因利率上升而上升。然而，成長速度有所放緩，平均無息存款比例較第二季小幅下降至 29%，但仍高於疫情前的水平。

Turning to net interest income on Slide 8. Third quarter net interest income was $13.1 billion, up 8% from a year ago, as we continued to benefit from the impact of higher rates. The $58 million decline from the second quarter was due to lower average deposit balances, partially offset by 1 additional day in the quarter and the impact of higher interest rates.

轉向幻燈片 8 上的淨利息收入。第三季淨利息收入為 131 億美元，比去年同期增長 8%，因為我們繼續受益於利率上升的影響。較第二季減少 5,800 萬美元的原因是平均存款餘額減少，但部分被本季增加 1 天的存款以及利率上升的影響所抵消。

Last quarter, we increased our expectations for full year 2023 net interest income growth to approximately 14% compared with 2022, which was up from our expectation of 10% growth at the beginning of the year. We now expect full year 2023 net interest income growth to grow by approximately 16% compared with 2022 with the fourth quarter 2023 net interest income expected to be approximately $12.7 billion. The expected decline in interest income in the fourth quarter was primarily driven by our assumptions for additional deposit outflows and migration from noninterest-bearing to interest-bearing deposits as well as continued deposit repricing, including continued competitive pricing on commercial deposits.

上季度，我們將2023年全年淨利息收入增速預期上調至較2022年14%左右，高於年初10%增速的預期。我們目前預計 2023 年全年淨利息收入成長率將較 2022 年成長約 16%，其中 2023 年第四季淨利息收入預計約為 127 億美元。第四季利息收入的預期下降主要是由於我們對存款額外流出、從無息存款轉向有息存款的假設以及持續的存款重新定價（包括商業存款的持續競爭性定價）造成的。

Turning to expenses on Slide 9. Noninterest expense declined from a year ago driven by lower operating losses and increased 1% from the second quarter driven by higher operating losses, severance expense and revenue-related comp. Last quarter, we updated our expectations for full year 2023 noninterest expense excluding operating losses to approximately $51 billion. We now expect it to be approximately $51.5 billion or approximately $12.6 billion in the fourth quarter. The increase reflects additional severance and other onetime costs, revenue-related compensation and some lags in realizing efficiency saves.

轉向投影片 9 上的費用。由於營業虧損減少，非利息費用較上年同期下降；由於營業虧損、遣散費和收入相關費用增加，非利息費用較第二季增加 1%。上季度，我們將 2023 年全年非利息支出（不包括營運損失）的預期更新為約 510 億美元。我們現在預計第四季約為 515 億美元或約 126 億美元。這一增長反映出額外的遣散費和其他一次性成本、與收入相關的補償以及實現效率節約方面的一些滯後。

We've reduced head count every quarter since the third quarter of 2020, and it was down 3% in the second quarter and 5% from a year ago. We believe we still have additional opportunities to reduce head count and attrition has remained low, which will likely result in additional severance expense for actions in 2024. We are working through our efficiency plans now as part of the budget process.

自2020年第三季以來，我們每季都在減少員工人數，第二季減少了3%，比去年同期減少了5%。我們相信，我們仍然有更多機會減少員工數量，而且人員流失率仍然很低，這可能會導致 2024 年的行動產生額外的遣散費。作為預算流程的一部分，我們現在正在製定效率計劃。

Additionally, if the FDIC deposit special assessment related to the events from earlier in the year was finalized in the fourth quarter, it would increase our expected fourth quarter expenses. And finally, as a reminder, we have outstanding litigation, regulatory and customer remediation matters that could impact operating results.

此外，如果與今年早些時候發生的事件相關的 FDIC 存款特別評估在第四季度最終確定，這將增加我們預期的第四季度支出。最後，提醒一下，我們還有可能影響經營業績的未決訴訟、監管和客戶補救事宜。

Turning to our operating segments, starting with Consumer Banking and Lending on Slide 10. Consumer, small and business banking revenue increased 7% from a year ago as higher net interest income driven by the impact of higher interest rates was partially offset by lower deposit-related fees driven by the overdraft policy changes we rolled out last year. Charlie highlighted the investments we were making in our Chicago branch network, and we're also making investments in refurbishing branches across our existing network. Additionally, we are bringing our digital onboarding experience to our branches, creating a fast and easy experience for our customers. At the same time, we've reduced our total number of branches by 6% from a year ago.

轉向我們的營運部門，從幻燈片10 上的消費者銀行和貸款開始。消費者、小型和企業銀行業務收入較上年同期增長7%，原因是利率上升帶來的淨利息收入增加被存款減少所部分抵銷。相關費用是由我們去年推出的透支政策變化所推動的。查理強調了我們在芝加哥分行網路中進行的投資，我們也正在翻新現有網路中的分行進行投資。此外，我們還將數位入職體驗引入我們的分支機構，為客戶創造快速、輕鬆的體驗。同時，我們的分行總數比一年前減少了 6%。

Home lending revenue declined 14% from a year ago due to a decline in mortgage banking income driven by lower originations in servicing income, which included the impact of sales of mortgage servicing rights. We continue to reduce head count in home lending in the third quarter, down 37% from a year ago, and we expect staffing levels will continue to decline.

房屋貸款收入較上年同期下降 14%，原因是服務收入來源減少（其中包括出售抵押貸款服務權的影響），導致抵押貸款銀行收入下降。第三季我們繼續減少房屋貸款部門的人員數量，年減 37%，我們預計人員配備水準將繼續下降。

Credit card revenue increased 2% from a year ago due to higher loan balances, partially offset by introductory promotional rates and higher credit card rewards expense. Payment rates have been relatively stable over the past year and remained above prepandemic levels. New account growth continued to be strong, up 22% from a year ago, reflecting the continued success of our new products and increased marketing. Importantly, the quality of the new accounts continue to be better than what we were booking historically. While the majority of new cards were to existing Wells Fargo customers, we're increasingly attracting more customers that are new to Wells Fargo. Auto revenue declined 15% from a year ago driven by continued loan spread compression and lower loan balances. Personal lending revenue is up 14% from a year ago due to higher loan balances.

由於貸款餘額增加，信用卡收入較上年同期增加 2%，但部分被介紹性促銷利率和信用卡獎勵費用增加所抵銷。過去一年支付率相對穩定，仍高於疫情前的水準。新帳戶成長持續強勁，比一年前成長 22%，反映出我們新產品的持續成功和行銷力度的加大。重要的是，新帳戶的品質仍然優於我們歷史上預訂的帳戶。雖然大多數新卡都是針對富國銀行的現有客戶，但我們正在越來越多地吸引更多富國銀行的新客戶。由於貸款利差持續壓縮和貸款餘額下降，汽車收入年減 15%。由於貸款餘額增加，個人貸款收入年增 14%。

Turning to some key business drivers on Slide 11. Mortgage originations declined 70% from a year ago and 18% in the second quarter. We continue to make progress on the strategic plans we announced earlier this year, including focusing on serving Wells Fargo Bank customers as well as borrowers in minority communities. We did not originate or fund any correspondent mortgages in the third quarter. The size of our auto portfolio has declined for 6 consecutive quarters, and balances were down 9% at the end of the third quarter compared to a year ago. Origination volumes declined 24% from a year ago, reflecting credit tightening actions as well as continued price competition. Our origination mix continue to shift towards higher FICO scores, reflecting the credit tightening actions we've taken over the past year.

轉向投影片 11 中的一些關鍵業務驅動因素。抵押貸款發放量較去年同期下降 70%，第二季下降 18%。我們繼續在今年稍早宣布的策略計畫上取得進展，包括重點為富國銀行客戶以及少數族裔社區的借款人提供服務。第三季我們沒有發起或資助任何相應的抵押貸款。我們的汽車投資組合規模已連續 6 季下降，第三季末餘額較去年同期下降 9%。發行量較去年同期下降 24%，反映出信貸緊縮行動以及持續的價格競爭。我們的發起組合繼續轉向更高的 FICO 分數，反映了我們在過去一年中採取的信貸緊縮行動。

Debit card spend increased 2% from a year ago with growth in most categories offsetting declines in fuel, home improvement and travel. Credit card spending continued to be strong and was up 15% from a year ago. All categories grew from a year ago, including fuel, which rebounded after declining in the second quarter.

借記卡支出較上年同期增長 2%，大多數類別的增長抵消了燃料、家居裝修和旅行支出的下降。信用卡支出持續強勁，較去年同期成長 15%。所有類別均較去年同期有所增長，其中包括燃料，該類別在第二季度下降後出現反彈。

Turning to Commercial Banking results on Slide 12. Middle Market Banking revenue increased 23% from a year ago due to the impact of higher interest rates and higher loan balances. Asset-based lending and leasing revenue increased 3% year-over-year due to higher loan balances as well as higher revenue from renewable energy investments. Loan balances were up 7% in the third quarter compared to a year ago driven by growth in Asset-Based Lending and Leasing. Average loans were down 1% in the second quarter due to declines in Middle Market Banking. After increasing the first half of the year, revolver utilization rates declined in the third quarter to levels similar to a year ago.

轉向投影片 12 上的商業銀行業績。由於利率上升和貸款餘額增加的影響，中間市場銀行業務收入較上年同期增加 23%。由於貸款餘額增加以及再生能源投資收入增加，資產抵押貸款和租賃收入年增 3%。在資產貸款和租賃成長的推動下，第三季貸款餘額較去年同期成長 7%。由於中間市場銀行業務的下滑，第二季平均貸款下降了 1%。在上半年增加後，左輪手槍使用率在第三季下降至與去年同期相似的水平。

Turning to Corporate Investment Banking on Slide 13. Banking revenue increased 20% from a year ago driven by higher lending revenue, stronger treasury management results reflecting the impact of higher interest rates, and higher investment banking revenue reflecting increased activity across all products. As Charlie highlighted, we've continued to hire experienced bankers, helping us deliver for our clients and positioning us well when markets improve.

轉向投影片13 上的企業投資銀行業務。銀行業務收入較上年同期成長20%，原因是貸款收入增加、財務管理績效增強（反映利率上升的影響）以及投資銀行收入增加（反映所有產品活動的增加）。正如查理所強調的那樣，我們繼續聘請經驗豐富的銀行家，幫助我們為客戶提供服務，並在市場改善時為我們做好定位。

Commercial real estate revenue grew 14% from a year ago, reflecting the impact of higher interest rates and higher revenue in our low-income housing business, partially offset by lower loan and deposit balances. Markets revenue increased 33% from a year ago driven by higher revenue in structured products, equities, credit products and foreign exchange. We've had strong trading results for 3 consecutive quarters as we benefited from market volatility and the investments we've made in technology and talent to grow this business. Average loans were down 5% from a year ago driven by banking, reflecting a combination of slower demand payoffs and modestly lower line utilization. Average loan balances were stable with the second quarter.

商業房地產收入年增 14%，反映出利率上升和低收入住房業務收入增加的影響，但部分被貸款和存款餘額下降所抵銷。由於結構性產品、股票、信貸產品和外匯收入增加，市場收入較上年同期成長 33%。我們連續三個季度取得了強勁的交易業績，因為我們受益於市場波動以及我們為發展這項業務而在技術和人才方面進行的投資。在銀行業的推動下，平均貸款較上年同期下降了 5%，反映出需求回報放緩和線路利用率小幅下降的綜合影響。平均貸款餘額與第二季持平。

On Slide 14, Wealth and Investment Management revenue increased 1% compared to a year ago driven by higher asset-based fees due to the increased market valuations. Net interest income declined from a year ago driven by lower deposit balances as customers continue to reallocate cash into higher-yielding alternatives as well as lower loan balances. While average deposits were down compared to both the second quarter and a year ago, the pace of the decline slowed in the third quarter.

在投影片 14 上，財富和投資管理收入較上年同期成長 1%，原因是市場估值上升導致資產費用上漲。由於客戶繼續將現金重新分配到收益更高的替代品以及較低的貸款餘額，存款餘額減少，導致淨利息收入較上年同期下降。雖然平均存款較第二季和去年同期均有所下降，但第三季下降速度放緩。

As a reminder, the majority of WIM, Wealth and Investment Management advisory assets were priced at the beginning of the quarter, so third quarter results reflected market valuations as of July 1, which were higher from a year ago. Asset-based fees in the fourth quarter will reflect market valuations as of October 1, which were also higher from a year ago but were lower from the third quarter pricing date. Average loans were down 4% from a year ago primarily due to a decline in securities-based lending.

需要提醒的是，大多數 WIM、財富和投資管理諮詢資產是在本季度初定價的，因此第三季度業績反映了截至 7 月 1 日的市場估值，該估值高於一年前。第四季的資產費用將反映截至 10 月 1 日的市場估值，該估值也高於一年前，但低於第三季定價日。平均貸款較上年同期下降 4%，主要是因為證券貸款下降。

Slide 15 highlights our corporate results. This segment includes venture capital and private equity investments, including the investments and funds that we sold in the third quarter. The sale had a nominal impact on third quarter net income. Revenue declined $345 million from a year ago, reflecting assumption changes related to the valuation of our Visa B common stock exposure as well as lower venture capital revenue.

幻燈片 15 重點介紹了我們的公司業績。該部門包括創投和私募股權投資，包括我們在第三季出售的投資和基金。此次出售對第三季淨利潤產生了名義影響。收入比一年前下降了 3.45 億美元，反映了與我們的 Visa B 普通股曝險估值相關的假設變化以及風險資本收入的下降。

In summary, our results in the third quarter reflect a continued improvement in our financial performance. During the first 9 months of this year, we had strong growth in revenue, pretax provision profit and diluted earnings per share compared to a year ago. As expected, our net charge-offs have continued to slowly increase from historical lows, and we increased our allowance for credit losses by over $1.9 billion this year primarily for CRE office loans and higher credit card loan balances. We are closely monitoring our portfolios and taking credit tightening actions where we believe appropriate. Our capital levels have increased, and we expect to continue to return excess capital to shareholders.

總而言之，我們第三季的業績反映了我們財務表現的持續改善。今年前9個月，我們的營收、稅前撥備利潤和稀釋每股盈餘與去年同期相比強勁成長。正如預期的那樣，我們的淨沖銷額繼續從歷史低點緩慢增加，今年我們將信貸損失準備金增加了超過 19 億美元，主要用於 CRE 辦公貸款和更高的信用卡貸款餘額。我們正在密切監控我們的投資組合，並在我們認為適當的情況下採取信貸緊縮行動。我們的資本水準有所提高，我們預計將繼續將多餘的資本返還給股東。

We will now take your questions.

我們現在將回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) And we will take our first question from John McDonald of Autonomous Research.

（操作員說明）我們將回答自治研究中心的約翰麥克唐納提出的第一個問題。

I wanted to ask about the expenses, Mike. Obviously, improving efficiency has been a big goal of yours. You made progress even while investing in regulatory. What are the additional opportunities to improve efficiency from here as you head into 2024? I know you're probably not ready to give guidance for '24 yet, but are you going into the budget planning with a mindset that they should be roughly flattish? Any comments you can give on that would be helpful.

我想問一下費用，麥克。顯然，提高效率一直是你們的一大目標。即使在投資監管的同時，您也取得了進展。進入 2024 年，還有哪些額外的機會可以提高效率？我知道您可能還沒有準備好為 24 世紀提供指導，但是您在進行預算規劃時是否抱著預算應該大致持平的心態？您對此發表的任何評論都會有所幫助。

Yes. Sure. Thanks, John. First off, let's just make sure we keep it all in context, right? We set out a program almost 3 years ago now to cut roughly $10 billion. And I think that's all still on track. We've brought head count down 40,000 from -- or closer to 50,000 from the peak back in [2025]. So sort of very good progress to date. And I think as Charlie and I have both said over the last couple of quarters, we still have more to do to make it more efficient. And I would say there are very few parts of the company that we would say are optimized at this point. Now some have more opportunity than others, some require investment in terms of automation and technology, some don't.

是的。當然。謝謝，約翰。首先，我們要確保一切都在上下文中，對吧？大約三年前，我們制定了一項削減約 100 億美元的計畫。我認為這一切仍然在正軌上。我們已將員工人數從 [2025 年] 的高峰減少了 40,000 人，或接近 50,000 人。到目前為止，取得了非常好的進展。我認為正如查理和我在過去幾個季度中所說的那樣，我們仍然需要做更多的工作來提高效率。我想說的是，目前公司中很少有部分是經過優化的。現在，有些人比其他人有更多的機會，有些人需要在自動化和技術方面進行投資，有些則不需要。

But I do think that we go into the budget process and even just how we operate every quarter with a very disciplined approach to every single area of the company saying, what are we going to do to continue to drive more efficiency there while we make investments as well. And we highlighted some of those that we've been making on in the prepared remarks. But I think it's the same mindset we've been bringing to it now for the last few years, and I think we're going to continue to do that. Where that ultimately ends up, we'll share for next year. We'll share with you in January, like we always do.

但我確實認為，我們會以非常嚴格的方法進入預算流程，甚至每個季度的運作方式，對公司的每個領域都採取非常嚴格的方法，我們要做什麼才能在投資的同時繼續提高效率以及。我們強調了我們在準備好的發言中一直在討論的一些內容。但我認為這與過去幾年我們一直秉持的心態相同，而且我認為我們將繼續這樣做。最終結果如何，我們將在明年分享。我們將像往常一樣在一月份與您分享。

Okay. Fair enough. And then on the net interest income outlook for the fourth quarter, are you building in assumptions -- you mentioned deposit outflows and mix shift assumptions? Are they assuming that things accelerate from here or similar to what you've seen this quarter? It seems like a pretty big sequential decline. Just kind of wondering what some of the assumptions are there.

好的。很公平。然後，關於第四季度的淨利息收入前景，您是否建立了假設—您提到了存款流出和混合轉移假設？他們是否認為事情會從現在開始加速，或與您本季看到的情況類似？這似乎是一個相當大的連續下降。只是想知道其中的一些假設。

Yes. No, look, I think as you can -- as we've talked about over the last -- it feels like forever, but certainly last 4, 5, 6 quarters now, there's still a lot of uncertainty out there in terms of how the path of both the deposits and pricing will shape up. Whether it's all the quantitative tightening, all of the -- any competitive reactions we may see from others. And so I think we continue to think that we're going to see these trends appear at some point. Now we've been pleasantly surprised this -- to date this year that hasn't progressed as fast as we thought it would, but at some point, it will. And so hopefully, we'll find ourselves in a position where it doesn't move as maybe fast as we've modeled in terms of pricing.

是的。不，聽著，我認為你可以 - 正如我們過去所討論的 - 感覺就像永遠，但肯定是過去 4、5、6 個季度了，在如何實現方面仍然存在很多不確定性存款和定價的路徑將會形成。無論是所有的量化緊縮，還是我們可能從其他人看到的所有競爭反應。因此，我認為我們仍然認為我們將在某個時候看到這些趨勢的出現。現在我們對此感到驚喜——今年迄今為止，進展並沒有我們想像的那麼快，但在某些時候，它會的。因此，希望我們會發現自己的處境不會像我們在定價方面建模的那麼快。

But we still -- all those trends are going to happen and are happening as you look at shifts between noninterest-bearing and interest-bearing, you're seeing deposit costs continue to increase. And on the consumer side, you see people spending their money. And so exactly at what pace those things are all going to keep going as we certainly modeled it, but we try to give you a base case forecast that we can hit under a bunch of different scenarios, and this is the same.

但我們仍然——所有這些趨勢都會發生，當你觀察無息和有息之間的轉變時，你會看到存款成本繼續增加。在消費者方面，你會看到人們花錢。因此，這些事情將以什麼速度繼續進行，就像我們建模的那樣，但我們試圖為您提供一個基本情況預測，我們可以在一堆不同的情況下實現這一目標，這是相同的。

The next question will come from Steven Chubak of Wolfe Research.

下一個問題將來自沃爾夫研究中心的史蒂文·丘巴克。

So wanted to start, Charlie, because you had made some comments about capital targets and those potentially evolving. The inflation RWA from Basel III Endgame that you guided to does bring your CET1 minimum to 8.5%. You alluded subtly, mind you, to the possibility of managing to a lower target. Since 150 bps management cushion does feel excessive, what are some of the factors that would compel you to maintain a larger cushion than peers and maybe continue to run at or above 10%?

所以想開始，查理，因為你對資本目標和那些可能演變的目標發表了一些評論。您指導的《巴塞爾協議 III 終局之戰》中的通貨膨脹 RWA 確實使您的 CET1 最低值達到 8.5%。請注意，您巧妙地提到了實現較低目標的可能性。由於 150 個基點的管理緩衝確實讓人感覺過高，那麼有哪些因素會迫使您保持比同行更大的緩衝，並可能繼續保持在 10% 或以上？

Well, let me just -- I'll start and then I'll hand it over to Mike. We were not trying to -- or I was not trying to give any direction about where we thought the appropriate buffer would be. We're just trying to be very factual about where we are. And once everything is finalized, we'll determine what the right buffers are and we'll communicate those. So please don't try and read any more into what I said other than just that.

好吧，讓我——我先開始，然後把它交給麥克。我們並沒有試圖——或者說我也沒有試圖就我們認為合適的緩衝區在哪裡給出任何指示。我們只是想非常真實地了解我們所處的位置。一旦一切都確定下來，我們將確定什麼是正確的緩衝區，並進行溝通。因此，除此之外，請不要嘗試進一步閱讀我所說的內容。

Yes. And I think, Steve, I know your estimate might be 150 basis points. But I think what we've talked about over time is that at least at this point, we've been saying our buffer is probably closer to 100% -- 100 basis points over wherever the right minimum might be. And that may evolve, as Charlie said. I think as you look at Basel III, the increase in RWA is driven by the things that are probably pretty obvious, whether it's operational risk plus the -- some of the other factors. But operational risk is certainly going to be one of the bigger pieces of it. And so I really do think that we have to see how the final rule shakes out next year.

是的。我想，史蒂夫，我知道你的估計可能是 150 個基點。但我認為我們長期以來所討論的是，至少在這一點上，我們一直在說我們的緩衝可能接近 100%——比正確的最小值高出 100 個基點。正如查理所說，這可能會演變。我認為，當你審視巴塞爾協議 III 時，RWA 的增加是由可能非常明顯的因素驅動的，無論是操作風險還是其他一些因素。但操作風險肯定是其中較大的部分之一。所以我確實認為我們必須看看明年的最終規則如何制定。

We're hopeful that there'll be some changes to areas that we think just makes sense from aligning sort of the capital requirements to the risk while also maybe moderating some of the operational risk increases as well. And so we're going to engage as we go there. But one of the factors that we've talked about now for a while in terms of how big our buffer should be is that we needed the rules to be finalized and so could that lead you to having a slightly smaller buffer than what we would have had in the past? Potentially. But I think we have to get there and get these finalized, and then we'll also take actions once we have good clarity on what's going to change or not change as we go over the next year. So I mean, we're probably 9 months to 12 months away from getting a final rule, and so we still have a little bit of time for this to play out.

我們希望，我們認為有意義的領域會發生一些變化，使資本需求與風險保持一致，同時也可能緩和一些營運風險的增加。因此，當我們去那裡時，我們將參與其中。但是，我們現在討論的關於緩衝區應該有多大的因素之一是，我們需要最終確定規則，因此這是否會導致您的緩衝區比我們原本擁有的緩衝區稍小一些過去有過嗎？有潛力。但我認為我們必須到達那裡並最終確定這些，然後一旦我們清楚地了解明年將改變或不改變的內容，我們也會採取行動。所以我的意思是，我們可能需要 9 個月到 12 個月的時間才能製定最終規則，所以我們還有一點時間來實施。

And for a follow-up, just on the trading business. It continues to surprise positively versus expectations. You cited some of the investments that you've made, the benefits of volatility. But with revenues running multiples above what we've seen in prior years and that $1 billion-plus bogey being reached for 3 consecutive quarters, I was hoping you could just speak to whether we should be underwriting $1 billion-plus as a new normal or if there were any cyclical benefits or anomalous benefits that maybe we shouldn't be underwriting go forward. Just trying to think about what the normalized level of trading revenue should be given some of the investments you've made scaling of that business.

後續，就貿易業務而言。與預期相比，它繼續令人驚訝。您列舉了您所做的一些投資以及波動性的好處。但是，由於收入比前幾年高出好幾倍，而且連續 3 個季度達到 10 億美元以上的目標，我希望您能談談我們是否應該將 10 億美元以上的承保作為新常態，或者如果有任何週期性收益或異常收益，也許我們不應該繼續承保。只是想一下，考慮到您對該業務進行的一些投資，交易收入的正常水平應該是多少。

Yes, I'll take that. Look, I think we've -- as you said, we've just been methodically investing in the capabilities with a focus on supporting our core clients more than -- more -- with more capabilities versus like trying to expand the scope of what we do in a way that just doesn't fit who we are. And so I think that's what you've seen us try to do there in those businesses. So businesses like FX and rates and just -- it's sort of methodically sort of adding people in a couple of slots or improving technology.

是的，我會接受的。聽著，我認為我們——正如你所說，我們只是有條不紊地投資於能力，重點是支持我們的核心客戶，而不是試圖擴大服務範圍。我們做事的方式與我們本身不相符。所以我認為這就是您所看到的我們在這些業務中嘗試做的事情。因此，像外匯和利率這樣的業務，就像是有條不紊地在幾個職位上增加人員或改進技術。

And we've certainly been the benefit of some volatility in the market this year. So as you know, that could change pretty quickly one way or the other. But I think as we look at some of these businesses, what we're focused on is just adding more clients, more flows, more incrementally each month and each quarter. And so whether it ends up being $1 billion plus or minus a quarter -- per quarter, I think we'll see as we go, but we're pretty pleased with what we've seen so far.

今年市場的一些波動無疑讓我們受益匪淺。如您所知，這種情況可能會很快發生變化。但我認為，當我們審視其中一些業務時，我們關注的只是增加更多的客戶、更多的流量、每個月和每季的增量。因此，無論最終是每季增加還是減少 10 億美元，我想我們都會看到，但我們對迄今為止所看到的情況感到非常滿意。

And there isn't a big onetime event that happened in the quarter that drove the results. And so that's good to see as well. And you're also not seeing big growth in market risk RWA as we do this as well. And so that's part of what we've been trying to do as well is kind of sweat the balance sheet more and make sure that we're getting paid for the exposure and the risk we've got there. And so we're happy to see that, it's starting to come together. And we're under no illusions, though, that 3 quarters is like success, right? We've got to do this over a long period of time and continue to add capabilities and clients.

本季並沒有發生重大一次性事件來推動業績。所以這也很高興看到。而且，當我們這樣做時，您也沒有看到市場風險 RWA 大幅成長。因此，這也是我們一直在努力做的事情的一部分，那就是在資產負債表上投入更多精力，並確保我們為所面臨的風險和風險獲得報酬。所以我們很高興看到它開始走到一起。不過，我們並不抱持任何幻想，三個季度就像成功，對吧？我們必須在很長一段時間內做到這一點，並不斷增加功能和客戶。

The next question will come from Scott Siefers of Piper Sandler.

下一個問題將來自 Piper Sandler 的 Scott Siefers。

Was hoping maybe, Mike, you could spend another moment sort of discussing RWA mitigation in light of the Fed capital proposals. I guess, specifically, I was hoping for maybe a little more color. I know you touched on it in some of the earlier remarks, but the sale of the $2 billion in private equity. And then maybe if you could also discuss the new agreement with Centerbridge for direct lending, just sort of how all these factor into your thinking here.

麥克，希望您能再花點時間根據聯準會資本提案討論 RWA 緩解措施。我想，具體來說，我希望有更多的顏色。我知道您在之前的一些言論中提到過出售 20 億美元的私募股權。然後也許您還可以討論與 Centerbridge 的直接貸款新協議，所有這些因素如何影響您的想法。

Sure. When you look at mitigation -- I'll just give you some examples of the types of things we're thinking about. So when you look at securities finance transactions, you have haircut -- collateral haircut floors that get implemented. And I don't want to get too technical on it because -- but there's some technical requirements there that just don't seem to make sense to us. And so -- but if they do get implemented as written, we'll adapt and we'll change the way we -- what collateral we require from clients to do trades or we'll reprice them. And so there'll be a number of things that we can do like on transactions like that, but it gets very, very technical for each of the underlying deals.

當然。當您考慮緩解措施時，我只會舉出一些我們正在考慮的事情類型的例子。因此，當您查看證券金融交易時，您會遇到折扣—實施的抵押品折扣底線。我不想在這方面涉及太多技術性的內容，因為——但其中有一些技術要求對我們來說似乎沒有意義。因此，如果它們確實按照書面規定實施，我們將進行調整，我們將改變我們要求客戶提供哪些抵押品進行交易的方式，否則我們將重新定價。因此，我們可以在類似的交易中做很多事情，但對於每項基礎交易來說，它都變得非常非常技術性。

There will be -- I know others have talked about this, too. We'll have to decide how much tax equity investing we do in renewables. If the risk weights hold there, it's just -- the math just doesn't make sense from a return perspective. And so we'll probably have to do less -- we'll probably do less of those. And so there's a number of things like that as you go through each of the underlying portfolios just don't make sense. And we're going to -- we'll make the adjustments as we need to.

我知道其他人也談過這個問題。我們必須決定對再生能源進行多少稅收股權投資。如果風險權重不變，那麼從報酬的角度來看，數學就沒有意義。因此，我們可能需要做更少的事情——我們可能會做更少的事情。因此，當你瀏覽每個基礎投資組合時，有很多類似的事情是沒有意義的。我們將根據需要進行調整。

Now we're also in a position where we've got plenty of flexibility as we talked about in the prepared remarks, right? Our capital levels today are there with a buffer already. And so we have the flexibility to handle it however we think makes sense to -- for each of the underlying businesses. And what we want to make sure we do is like we're building real businesses and client relationships over a long period of time. So it's not about necessarily walking away from clients. It's about finding ways to serve them in ways that both makes sense for them and from a return perspective for us.

現在，正如我們在準備好的發言中談到的那樣，我們也擁有足夠的靈活性，對吧？我們今天的資本水準已經有了緩衝。因此，我們可以靈活地以我們認為有意義的方式處理每個基礎業務。我們希望確保我們所做的是在很長一段時間內建立真正的業務和客戶關係。因此，這並不意味著一定要遠離客戶。這是為了尋找一種既對他們有意義又對我們有利的方式來服務他們。

But it's going to be a very, very granular conversation. Some of it will be repricing. You got 364-day revolvers that will need to be repriced. You've got -- there's a whole bunch of very technical things like that, that will get done over time once the rule is finalized.

但這將會是一次非常非常細緻的對話。其中一些將重新定價。您有 364 天的左輪手槍，需要重新定價。你已經得到了——有一大堆非常技術性的事情，一旦規則最終確定，這些事情就會隨著時間的推移而完成。

Switching to the partnership we have with Centerbridge. Look, it's a -- we have been getting demand from clients for a while now in the middle-market kind of mid-corporate space for solutions to help them in financing that they need where it likely wouldn't make sense for us to put on our balance sheet anyway. And so instead of having telling clients we can't help them or having them go direct to somebody else, we built a partnership with Centerbridge that allows us to remain an adviser to a client and help them solve a problem they may have. And so that's the way we're thinking about it.

轉而與 Centerbridge 建立合作關係。聽著，一段時間以來，我們一直在中型市場的中型企業領域收到客戶的需求，要求提供解決方案，幫助他們在我們可能沒有意義的地方進行所需的融資無論如何，在我們的資產負債表上。因此，我們沒有告訴客戶我們無法幫助他們或讓他們直接去找其他人，而是與 Centerbridge 建立了合作夥伴關係，使我們能夠繼續擔任客戶的顧問，幫助他們解決可能遇到的問題。這就是我們思考的方式。

And we're excited to work with Centerbridge and that team, and they're a very high-quality team, they have done a lot over time. And I think this gives us another arrow in the quiver to help us provide solutions for clients. And so it's early, and it will grow over time, hopefully. And hopefully, clients will see it in the same way.

我們很高興與 Centerbridge 和該團隊合作，他們是一支非常高素質的團隊，隨著時間的推移，他們做了很多事情。我認為這為我們提供了另一支箭，幫助我們為客戶提供解決方案。所以現在還為時過早，希望它會隨著時間的推移而增長。希望客戶也會以同樣的方式看待它。

Okay. Perfect. And then maybe as a follow-up, might want to revisit -- or I was hoping to revisit the NII discussion for a bit. I certainly appreciate all the comments on continuing mix shift and deposit pricing pressure. But I guess, as we get to this level at the end of the year, is the thought that there would still be on balance downward pressure on NII beyond that? Or is -- as you see it, is there enough kind of asset repricing opportunity that would ultimately allow things to settle out maybe sooner as opposed to later?

好的。完美的。然後，也許作為後續行動，我可能想重新審視一下——或者我希望重新審視 NII 的討論。我當然感謝所有關於持續的混合轉變和存款定價壓力的評論。但我想，當我們在年底達到這個水準時，是否會認為除此之外，NII 仍然會面臨整體下行壓力？或者，正如您所看到的，是否存在足夠的資產重新定價機會，最終可以讓事情盡快解決，而不是稍後解決？

Yes. I mean we'll see. I think we do need to wait until we get towards the end of the year and into January for us to give you a real view on 2024. I mean, I think what the last number of quarters have -- just show over and over and over that there's a lot still to play out here. And to get too far ahead of ourselves on it for next year, I think, would be a mistake at this point.

是的。我的意思是我們會看到。我認為我們確實需要等到年底和 1 月，才能給您對 2024 年的真實看法。我的意思是，我認為最後幾個季度的情況——只是一遍又一遍地展示除此之外，這裡還有很多事情要做。我認為，在這一點上，如果我們在明年的目標上走得太遠，那將是一個錯誤。

So -- but look, the same -- it's the same drivers we've been talking about for a while, right? It's like what's going to happen with deposits, the mix, the pricing. And then to a lesser degree, right now, it's loan growth, but it still matters over a long period of time as well.

所以，但看，是一樣的，這與我們已經討論了一段時間的驅動程式相同，對吧？這就像存款、組合和定價將會發生的情況一樣。現在，在較小程度上，這是貸款成長，但在很長一段時間內它仍然很重要。

The next question comes from Matt O'Connor of Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行的馬特·奧康納。

Can you just elaborate on the comment of tightening the credit box a bit? And then, I guess, specifically in credit card, thoughts there? I know you've been leaning into it and have had real good growth. And I think it's still only about 5% of your loan book, but wondering your thoughts of, is this really the right time to be leaning into credit card maybe as we're kind of later cycle.

能否詳細說明一下收緊信貸的評論？然後，我想，特別是在信用卡方面，有什麼想法嗎？我知道你一直在努力並取得了良好的成長。我認為這仍然只佔你貸款帳簿的 5% 左右，但想知道你的想法，這真的是傾斜信用卡的合適時機嗎？也許因為我們正處於後期週期。

Yes. I'll start with credit card and come back to the broader point. So we started on a journey to transform that -- the card business back in the fourth quarter of '19, so right after really Charlie started. And what we've done since then is really refreshed -- almost completely refreshed the product line. We still have a little bit more to do there.

是的。我將從信用卡開始，然後回到更廣泛的話題。因此，我們在 19 年第四季開始了轉型之路——信用卡業務，就在查理真正開始之後。從那時起我們所做的事情確實煥然一新——幾乎完全刷新了產品線。我們還有一些工作要做。

And so part of what you're seeing come through in the results is actually putting out good products that people want to buy. And you're seeing really -- we have really good new account growth in the quarter, probably our best quarter in quite some time. And so it starts with just having a good product and good service behind it, and that's the key driver, I think, of what you're seeing here.

因此，您在結果中看到的部分內容實際上是推出了人們想要購買的優質產品。你確實看到了——我們本季的新客戶成長非常好，這可能是我們相當長一段時間以來最好的季度。因此，首先要有良好的產品和良好的服務，我認為這是您在這裡看到的關鍵驅動力。

On the credit side on the new originations, the new accounts we're adding are really good relative to the back book. And when you look at both -- and even when you dig a little bit deeper there, there's -- the majority of them are still Wells Fargo Bank customers, but we're seeing more and more traction with non-Wells Fargo customers, so first-time customers.

從新起源的信用方面來看，我們新增的新帳戶相對於舊帳確實很好。當你審視這兩者時——甚至當你更深入地挖掘時，你會發現——他們中的大多數仍然是富國銀行客戶，但我們看到非富國銀行客戶的吸引力越來越大，所以初次顧客。

And when you look at those first time to Wells customers, those -- the credit profile is really good. And so we feel comfortable with like the risks that's being added there. And we're going to continue to look for pockets of risk. And if we see them, we'll tighten it down. But in terms of what we're seeing in originations, we feel good about what we're seeing so far.

當你看看那些第一次接觸富國銀行的客戶時，他們的信用狀況非常好。因此，我們對其中增加的風險感到滿意。我們將繼續尋找風險點。如果我們看到它們，我們就會收緊。但就我們在起源中看到的情況而言，我們對迄今為止所看到的感到滿意。

Just more broadly on credit, we've said now for probably the last 4 or 5 quarters, we've been kind of incrementally tightening the credit box on the consumer side for a while. Whether it's really across the board in home lending, auto, card, personal loans, really every single one of them had some credit tightening. And it's been a bit incremental over the last 4 or 5 quarters.

更廣泛地說，在信貸方面，我們已經說過，可能在過去的四、五個季度裡，我們一段時間以來一直在逐步收緊消費者方面的信貸。無論是房屋貸款、汽車貸款、信用卡或個人貸款，實際上每一項都出現了信貸緊縮。在過去的四、五個季度裡，這一數字有所增加。

And so I would still sort of think of that as like taking that last 1% or 2% or 3% of origination out that doesn't make sense in what could be a more difficult economic environment. It's not wholesale shifts in sort of the approach or the underlying box that we're operating in. It's really sort of modest and incremental. And then on the...

因此，我仍然認為這就像將最後 1%、2% 或 3% 的原始資金剔除，這在可能更加困難的經濟環境中是沒有意義的。這並不是我們所採用的方法或底層框架的大規模轉變。這確實是一種適度和漸進的轉變。然後在...

Just on -- and just to be clear, I mean it's -- and it's the very basic stuff. It's just upping the lower FICO boundaries, it's layered risks. And so it's just as you continue to make these changes, you just -- we're just continuing to do the same types of things without just wholesale exits or anything like that. It's just kind of a smart tightening.

就這樣——澄清一下，我的意思是——這是非常基本的東西。它只是提高了 FICO 的下限，這是分層的風險。因此，當你繼續做出這些改變時，我們只是繼續做同樣類型的事情，而不僅僅是大規模退出或類似的事情。這只是一種明智的收緊。

Yes. And then outside the consumer space -- outside of consumer, really the only place that we've meaningfully tightened credit over the last couple of years or a few years is commercial real estate. And other than that, I think there's probably some minor tinkering, but we haven't really changed the appetite much outside of commercial real estate.

是的。然後在消費領域之外——在消費者之外，在過去幾年或幾年裡我們真正有意義地收緊信貸的唯一領域是商業房地產。除此之外，我認為可能還有一些小修改，但我們並沒有真正改變商業不動產以外的需求。

Okay. That's helpful. And then just a clarification on the severance costs. Can you give us what the absolute amount was this quarter? I think you gave us the change versus a year ago and linked quarter. But what was the absolute level this quarter?

好的。這很有幫助。然後只是對遣散費進行澄清。您能否告訴我們本季的絕對金額是多少？我認為您為我們帶來了與一年前和相關季度相比的變化。但本季的絕對水準是多少？

Yes, there wasn't a lot a year ago, so it's not far off of the total. So a small difference, but it's -- there wasn't a lot.

是的，一年前的數量並不多，所以與總數相差不遠。差別很小，但差異不大。

Okay. So about $200 million?

好的。那麼大約2億美元？

Yes. And again, that will sort of evolve as we go. I mentioned that in my script as we look at next year and the attrition rates that we're seeing.

是的。再說一次，這會隨著我們的發展而演變。當我們展望明年以及我們所看到的員工流失率時，我在劇本中提到了這一點。

The next question will come from John Pancari of Evercore ISI.

下一個問題將來自 Evercore ISI 的 John Pancari。

On the commercial real estate front, I know you cited the increase in the office loan loss reserve from -- in the CIB from 8.8% to 10.8%. Could you just comment there in terms of what were some of the anecdotal drivers for the loan loss reserve increase? Do you think you could have incremental increases here? And maybe cite some of the office revaluations you've seen as you have seen with the underlying collateral change hands or reappraisals, if you can give us some color there as well.

在商業房地產方面，我知道您提到了 CIB 的辦公大樓貸款損失準備金從 8.8% 增加到 10.8%。您能否就貸款損失準備金增加的一些軼事驅動因素發表評論？您認為這裡可以逐步增加嗎？也許可以引用一些你所看到的辦公室重估，就像你所看到的基礎抵押品易手或重新評估一樣，如果你也能為我們提供一些資訊的話。

Yes, sure. When you -- the hard part of office right now is that there aren't a lot of trades happening yet, right? There's a few in certain cities, and they're all a little bit different in their complexion. So you still have somewhat limited information in price discovery in a lot of places. And so we're doing -- we do a lot of our own work to try to evaluate each of the underlying properties and what they could be worth in a bunch of different scenarios.

是的，當然。當你——現在辦公室最困難的部分是還沒有發生很多交易，對嗎？在某些城市有一些，而且他們的膚色都有點不同。因此，在很多地方，您在價格發現方面的資訊仍然有限。所以我們正在做——我們自己做了很多工作來嘗試評估每個基礎屬性以及它們在許多不同場景中的價值。

And then it's feeling like the appraisal market is starting to kind of catch up, where they're -- we're seeing appraisals that are more realistic and more updated. So that's certainly bringing in different data points as we look at it. And as we looked at the quarter, we sort of look at all those data points and the underlying loans and try to do our best to come up what we think the different range of loss could look like here, and that's what's embedded in the results.

然後感覺評估市場開始迎頭趕上，我們看到評估更加現實、更新。因此，當我們觀察時，這肯定會帶來不同的數據點。當我們查看本季度時，我們會查看所有這些數據點和基礎貸款，並盡力得出我們認為不同範圍的損失可能會是什麼樣子，這就是結果所包含的內容。

Hopefully, we end up being conservative. But nonetheless, it's possible that this plays out this way. And so we haven't really seen any losses of significant yet -- significance yet, but we will. And it just takes some time for it to play out for each of these underlying situations, probably longer than any of us would hope to -- you'd hope that you could bring some of this stuff to resolution maybe faster than it really takes in real life. But it's really looking at all the data points, the limited sales, the new appraisals that are coming through and then our own analysis for each of the underlying properties.

希望我們最終會變得保守。但儘管如此，事情有可能會以這種方式發生。因此，我們還沒有真正看到任何重大損失，但我們會的。對於這些潛在情況，它只需要一些時間來發揮作用，可能比我們任何人希望的時間都要長——你希望你能比實際情況更快地解決其中一些問題現實生活。但它實際上是在考慮所有數據點、有限的銷售、正在進行的新評估，然後是我們自己對每個基礎房產的分析。

Got it. All right. And then separately, also within commercial real estate, we're getting more and more questions around multifamily exposures and just how well they really are holding up given some supply issues in certain markets. Can you just comment there? Are you seeing any noteworthy stress or any changes to underlying reserve for that book?

知道了。好的。另外，在商業房地產領域，我們收到越來越多關於多戶型風險敞口的問題，以及考慮到某些市場的一些供應問題，它們的實際狀況如何。你能在那裡發表評論嗎？您是否看到該書有任何值得注意的壓力或潛在儲備有任何變化？

Yes. Not a lot. I mean you certainly see certain markets that might appear to have some oversupply in condos in certain places. But it feels like that will work itself out over a period of time. We're not seeing real systematic stress in the portfolio at this point.

是的。不是很多。我的意思是，您肯定會看到某些市場的某些地方的公寓可能出現供應過剩。但感覺這會在一段時間內自行解決。目前我們還沒有看到投資組合出現真正的系統性壓力。

Got it. If I can ask just one last one. On the head count cuts, you mentioned you look at every business pretty much. Are any head count cuts occurring yet in the risk area or anything? Or any changes with the contracts with consultants in the risk overhaul area at all?

知道了。如果我能問最後一個的話。關於裁員，您提到您對每項業務都進行了密切關注。風險領域或其他領域是否正在裁員？或與風險檢修領域顧問的合約有任何變化嗎？

Yes. No. Look, the only thing I'd say on the risk and reg work is that we're going to spend whatever we need to spend and put the resources we need against it to get it done. And we're going to continue to do that towards...

是的。不。聽著，關於風險和監管工作，我唯一想說的是，我們將花費我們需要花費的一切，並投入我們所需的資源來完成它。我們將繼續這樣做......

Just to be clear, like we're not cutting head count related to that. In fact, it's probably the opposite when you look over the past bunch of quarters. The only thing which goes up and down is depending on where we are with work with outside consultants, that number will go up or down in a given quarter. But we've also said, if we can use outside resources to help get the work done sooner, we're going to. So as we think about -- just as we think about our efficiencies, that is just not in scope at this point or for the foreseeable future.

需要澄清的是，我們並沒有削減與此相關的人員數量。事實上，當你回顧過去幾季時，情況可能恰恰相反。唯一的上升和下降取決於我們與外部顧問的合作情況，這個數字在特定季度會上升或下降。但我們也說過，如果我們可以利用外部資源來幫助更快完成工作，我們就會這樣做。因此，正如我們思考我們的效率一樣，這不在目前或可預見的未來的範圍內。

The next question comes from Erika Najarian of UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀 (UBS) 的 Erika Najarian。

My first question is on the revenue side. As a follow-up to Chubak's line of questioning, I think not only the trading numbers come better this year but also investment banking. And so I hear you loud and clear about the cyclicality of the trading business. But I guess, help us get a sense of if the industry wallet, for example, return to 2019 levels, do you think that you're going to have generally a higher share of revenues in capital markets versus 2019?

我的第一個問題是關於收入方面的。作為楚巴克提問的後續，我認為今年不僅交易數據有所改善，而且投資銀行業務也有所改善。因此，我聽到您大聲而清晰地講述了貿易業務的周期性。但我想，請幫助我們了解一下，例如，如果行業錢包恢復到 2019 年的水平，您是否認為與 2019 年相比，您在資本市場的收入份額總體上會更高？

And sort of the sub-question to that is, as we think about the investments you have already made, what are the other businesses that could potentially surprise us to the upside, where it's not quite optimized yet in terms of its revenue production? And obviously, everybody is thinking about -- you mentioned card, and also everybody is also thinking about wealth management and investment advisory revenues.

與之相關的一個子問題是，當我們考慮您已經進行的投資時，還有哪些其他業務可能會給我們帶來驚喜，而其在收入生產方面尚未完全優化？顯然，每個人都在考慮——你提到了卡，每個人也在考慮財富管理和投資諮詢收入。

Yes. Well, let me take a shot at that. I think -- listen, I think the answer is, to your question on share, without getting overly specific, yes. We think when you look at where we stand on our growth in our Corporate Investment Banking share, whether it's on the trading side or whether it's on the fee-related side, our shares have grown. And certainly, on the -- within the fee-based side of the business, we do hope they continue to grow. That's driven by the investments that we're making, and investments meaning people in terms of growing our capabilities. And we've got clear goals and targets by person that we bring on in terms of what we expect, and we're going to be tracking to that.

是的。好吧，讓我試試看。我認為——聽著，我認為對於你關於分享的問題，答案是，是的，但不要過於具體。我們認為，當你看看我們的企業投資銀行份額增長情況時，無論是在交易方面還是在費用相關方面，我們的份額都在增長。當然，在收費業務方面，我們確實希望它們能夠繼續成長。這是由我們正在進行的投資推動的，而投資意味著人們增強我們的能力。我們已經根據我們的期望制定了明確的個人目標，並且我們將對此進行追蹤。

And just a reminder, certainly, when we brought some of the people on, they bring some -- a lot of clients with them, some new transactions in the short term. And we've been beneficiaries of that over the last couple of quarters just as we brought some people on. But these are relationship-based businesses, and transactions don't occur every single quarter. So we would expect our share to continue to grow.

當然，只是提醒一下，當我們引進一些人時，他們帶來了一些——很多客戶，以及短期內的一些新交易。在過去的幾個季度裡，我們一直是受益者，就像我們引進了一些人一樣。但這些都是基於關係的業務，交易並不是每季都會發生。因此，我們預計我們的份額將繼續增長。

And I just -- as a reminder, without taking any additional risk overall because we're taking the risk today relative to the exposures that we have. When we look at where we can see growth coming overall across the entire company, we just go business by business.

我只是提醒一下，總體而言，我們不會承擔任何額外的風險，因為我們今天所承擔的風險與我們所擁有的風險敞口有關。當我們審視整個公司的整體成長點時，我們只是逐一進行分析。

Absolutely, in our consumer small business -- small and business banking segment because -- we've basically been treading water there as we stabilized that business going back to the issues that we had there, which was an incredibly difficult thing to do, and we did. And we've not been our -- we've not been on our front foot in that business. We're going to do it in a very different way than this company did it historically, but there are opportunities to be on the front foot and actually grow share on an organic basis. And so incredibly excited about that opportunity.

當然，在我們的消費者小型業務中——小型和企業銀行業務部門，因為——我們基本上一直在原地踏步，因為我們穩定了該業務，回到了我們在那裡遇到的問題，這是一件非常困難的事情，而且我們做到了。我們並沒有在這一領域處於領先地位。我們將以一種與該公司歷史上截然不同的方式來做這件事，但我們有機會走在前面，並在有機的基礎上實際成長份額。我對這個機會感到非常興奮。

Not excited, as I said, about growing share in mortgage. That's not where we're after, and it's -- we've talked about where we're going there. Auto, it's about returns, not growth. So don't look for a lot of growth there unless the dynamics change in the business.

正如我所說，對於抵押貸款份額的增長並不感到興奮。那不是我們追求的目標，我們已經討論過我們要去的地方。汽車，重要的是回報，而不是成長。因此，除非業務動態發生變化，否則不要在那裡尋求大量成長。

Mike spoke about card. We're incredibly energized by the evidence that shows with our brand and our relationships. When you put a great product out there, we get positive selection and real growth. And by the way, look at our spend numbers. I mean, if you want to see like the impact of what it means, just look at the spend that we're seeing, which is much higher than the industry levels.

麥克談到了卡。我們的品牌和關係所展現的證據讓我們無比振奮。當您推出出色的產品時，我們會得到積極的選擇和真正的成長。順便說一句，看看我們的支出數字。我的意思是，如果您想了解其含義的影響，只需看看我們所看到的支出即可，該支出遠高於行業水平。

Our wealth business, as you pointed out, no question, also treaded water for a long period of time. We're attracting people and teams. We're rolling out new products. So we feel really good about the opportunities that are there. And in the middle market segment, where it's a little bit more business as usual because it is such a strong franchise for us. Even there we look back at our asset-based lending businesses and the things that we acquired from GE. They ran as stand-alone businesses here for a long period of time, and we didn't bring the entire product set of Wells Fargo to those customer bases. Under Kyle Hranicky, Kristin Lesher and MK DuBose or Mary Katherine DuBose are diligently working through that and bringing the Investment Banking product to that entire Commercial Banking product.

正如您所指出的，毫無疑問，我們的財富業務也長期停滯不前。我們正在吸引人才和團隊。我們正在推出新產品。因此，我們對那裡的機會感到非常滿意。在中間市場領域，業務與往常一樣多一點，因為它對我們來說是一個強大的特許經營權。即使在那裡，我們也會回顧我們的資產貸款業務以及我們從通用電氣收購的東西。他們在這裡作為獨立企業運作了很長一段時間，我們並沒有將富國銀行的整個產品集帶給這些客戶群。在 Kyle Hranicky 的領導下，Kristin Lesher 和 MK DuBose 或 Mary Katherine DuBose 正在努力解決這個問題，並將投資銀行產品引入整個商業銀行產品。

So I could go on. I just -- it should be broad-based. Most of it, by the way, I'll point out, in terms of when we see opportunities, it is fee-based growth, not because we've dictated that but just because we focused a lot on NII as a company historically. And we just have a lot of opportunities that we get excited about that will play out over a period of time.

所以我可以繼續。我只是——它應該有廣泛的基礎。順便說一句，我要指出的是，當我們看到機會時，大部分都是基於費用的增長，不是因為我們已經規定了這一點，而是因為我們歷史上非常關注 NII 作為一家公司。我們有很多讓我們興奮的機會，這些機會將在一段時間內發揮作用。

Got it. And I think that excitement is clear, Charlie. And my second question is, given all of that and taking a step back, I totally think it's too early, I agree with you, to give anything on '24 expenses. But more broadly discussing, do you feel like the company is in a little bit of an inflection point? Because on one hand, Mike was saying that very few parts of the bank are optimized. On the other, I think you guys mentioned that the head count is not going the other way, and perhaps it's really some of the outside consulting fees that could go up and down.

知道了。我認為這種興奮是顯而易見的，查理。我的第二個問題是，考慮到所有這些，退一步說，我完全認為現在就 24 小時開支提供任何資金還為時過早，我同意你的觀點。但更廣泛地討論，你是否覺得公司正處於一個轉捩點？因為一方面，麥克說銀行中很少有部分得到優化。另一方面，我想你們提到了員工數量並沒有出現相反的情況，也許確實是一些外部諮詢費用可能會上下浮動。

But I'm wondering if you get asked about expenses in a framework of flat, but then all of this momentum on the revenue side seems to be on the comp. And I'm wondering how you think about as you budget for the company and as you think about just getting to that 15% ROTCE. Let's just put Basel III Endgame aside in terms of the denominator, how do you balance some of the shareholders and the analysts that are asking you about expenses in the context of flat versus the revenue momentum that obviously would need expenses to keep sustaining versus that revenue momentum that you seem to be so excited about?

但我想知道你是否被問及扁平化框架中的支出，但收入方面的所有動力似乎都在補償上。我想知道您在為公司製定預算以及考慮達到 15% 的 ROTCE 時是如何考慮的。讓我們把巴塞爾協議III終局之戰放在一邊，在分母方面，你如何平衡一些股東和分析師，他們在持平的情況下向你詢問費用與收入勢頭，顯然需要支出來維持維持與收入的關係你似乎對此感到如此興奮的勢頭？

Let me start. And Mike, you either come in at the end or just make your comments along the way as well. So I think, first of all, we think about it as 2 separate exercises that we go through. And we're -- and it's very timely because we're in the middle of going through the exercise for next year as most other companies are, which is this company is not efficient, like period, end of story. And I've described this, even with all of the reductions that we've made, it's not surprising because as you peel the onion back, other things present themselves. And so you go in order of things that are more obvious and things like that.

讓我開始吧。麥克，你要么在最後進來，要么只是一路發表你的評論。所以我認為，首先，我們將其視為我們要經歷的兩個單獨的練習。我們——而且非常及時，因為我們正像大多數其他公司一樣正在進行明年的演習，這就是這家公司效率不高，就像故事的結尾一樣。我已經描述了這一點，即使我們做出了所有的減少，這並不奇怪，因為當你剝開洋蔥時，其他東西就會出現。所以你要按照更明顯的事情以及類似的事情的順序來進行。

But when we sit around as a management team, we feel great about the progress. And there's no clearer way to see that than in the head count numbers, which ultimately drive the expense of the company. And if I -- if we stood here and told you we were going to drive the head count down that much in this period of time, I'm not sure you'd have believed us. And so when we say we're going to do something, we really do mean it. And so when we sit around as a team, there are many more efficiencies to get, and we're diligently working through those.

但當我們作為管理團隊坐下來時，我們對進展感到非常高興。沒有比員工人數更清楚地看出這一點的了，而員工人數最終會增加公司的開支。如果我——如果我們站在這裡告訴你，我們將在這段時間內將人數減少那麼多，我不確定你會相信我們。因此，當我們說我們要做某事時，我們是真心實意的。因此，當我們作為一個團隊坐下來時，可以提高效率，並且我們正在努力解決這些問題。

And then separately from that, it's when we talk about making investments in the place, are we getting the payoff for it. And so whether it's the marketing in the card business, where we're spending more money on marketing than we had in the past, and we feel great about, as Mike pointed out, not just the volumes that we're getting but the underlying quality relative to how we had modeled that. And so we'll do that with each and everything. And ultimately, we need to make a decision as we finalize the process of the budget on just much more of a tactical basis of how those things net out.

除此之外，當我們談論在這個地方進行投資時，我們是否得到了回報。因此，無論是卡片業務的營銷，我們在行銷上花費的錢都比過去更多，正如邁克指出的那樣，我們不僅對我們獲得的數量感到滿意，而且對潛在的收入感到滿意。相對於我們建造模方式的品質。所以我們將對每件事都這樣做。最終，當我們最終確定預算流程時，我們需要在更多的戰術基礎上做出決定，以了解這些事情的結果。

We're well aware of what shareholders are looking for. We're well aware of that the expense side of this company is an important equation in what investors look at us in terms of where -- unlocking value, and we hear it and we see it. And whatever -- wherever we come out when we talk to you about our guidance for next year, we will explain why we got to where we are. It's going to include efficiencies. It's going to include investments. Whether it -- where that turns out, we'll explain it. And I think so far, we've been as clear and as transparent as we can be. And if it makes sense, you'll like it. And if it doesn't, you won't, you'll tell us. But so far, we've been able to have alignment there.

我們非常了解股東的需求。我們很清楚，這家公司的費用方面是投資者看待我們的一個重要因素——釋放價值，我們聽到並看到它。不管怎樣——無論我們在哪裡，當我們與你們談論明年的指導時，我們都會解釋為什麼我們會走到現在的位置。這將包括效率。它將包括投資。無論結果如何，我們都會解釋。我認為到目前為止，我們已經盡可能清晰和透明。如果它有意義，你就會喜歡它。如果沒有，你不會，你會告訴我們。但到目前為止，我們已經能夠在那裡保持一致。

But overall, I would just -- it's a long way of saying it's not lost on us that we have opportunities both to reduce expenses and to invest. But making sure that the overall expense level stays in check at this place is incredibly important to us, and we have to prove that there is revenue growth there supporting investments that we make.

但總的來說，我想說的是——這很長一段時間都表明我們並沒有失去減少開支和投資的機會。但確保這個地方的整體費用水準保持在控制範圍內對我們來說非常重要，我們必須證明那裡的收入成長支持我們所做的投資。

The next question will come from Ebrahim Poonawala of Bank of America.

下一個問題將由美國銀行的 Ebrahim Poonawala 提出。

Just Mike, for you, a follow-up on credit on the C&I side, nonaccrual charge-offs staying relatively flat, I guess, as we look through. Just talk to us in terms of when you look at that C&I book, is the impact of the Fed rate hikes felt by your customers? And how are you seeing that evolve? Is your expectation right now -- you talked about the economy being resilient. Are you seeing any soft spots on the C&I book where you're seeing bankruptcies rise within a vertical or a certain segment?

麥克，對你來說，C&I 方面的信貸後續行動，我想，當我們仔細觀察時，非應計沖銷保持相對平穩。就跟我們說一下，當你看那本C&I的書時，你的客戶感受到聯準會升息的影響了嗎？您如何看待這種演變？您現在的期望是—您談到經濟具有彈性。您是否在 C&I 書中發現了某個垂直領域或某個細分市場破產數量增加的弱點？

Yes. No. Look, I think, first, you're seeing it come through in utilization of revolvers, right, which are pretty much in check. They aren't moving much and down in some cases. So people are building less inventory given where rates are. They may be making decisions on like how fast they want to invest in their businesses. And so you're seeing that come through in loan growth, which is sensible for -- from their perspective. I think when you look across the portfolio, there are certainly pockets where you may be seeing margin compression still or different idiosyncratic issues. But across the portfolio, the credit quality is still good.

是的。不，我想，首先，你會看到它是透過左輪手槍的使用來實現的，對吧，這幾乎受到了控制。在某些情況下，它們的移動幅度不大，甚至會向下移動。因此，鑑於利率水平，人們正在減少庫存。他們可能正在做出決定，例如他們想要以多快的速度投資自己的業務。所以你會看到貸款成長，從他們的角度來看，這是明智的。我認為，當你縱觀整個投資組合時，你肯定會在某些地方看到利潤率仍然受到壓縮或出現不同的特殊問題。但在整個投資組合中，信貸品質仍然良好。

Got it. And do you think your customers have felt the hit from higher rates already? Or is that on the comp?

知道了。您認為您的客戶是否已經感受到了更高費率的打擊？還是在補償上？

Well, I think they certainly felt it so far, right? I mean most of them have variable rate loan that they service, right? And obviously, the longer rates stay high, they'll maybe feel it more. But certainly, I think they've been impacted.

嗯，我想到目前為止他們肯定感覺到了，對吧？我的意思是他們中的大多數人都有提供浮動利率貸款，對吧？顯然，利率維持高位的時間越長，他們的感受可能就越深。但當然，我認為他們受到了影響。

Got it. And just one separate quick question on the outlook for buybacks. Clearly, big reset lower. When you -- like your excess capital, you probably have visibility on the worst case on Basel Endgame. It's very rare that banks have excess capital when the stocks are actually near lower. You're creating a tangible book. How do you think about outside of CCAR and SCB in terms of near-term pace of buybacks over the next few quarters relative to what we did this quarter?

知道了。還有一個關於回購前景的單獨快速問題。顯然，大幅重置走低。當你——就像你的多餘資本一樣，你可能會看到巴塞爾殘局中最壞的情況。當股價實際上接近較低水準時，銀行很少有過剩資本。你正在創作一本有形的書。相對於我們本季的做法，您如何看待 CCAR 和 SCB 以外的未來幾季的近期回購速度？

Yes. I mean we're not going to get into like trying to give you a view on pacing. We're going to go -- we have a process we go through every quarter to look at all of what's happening. First, it's like how are we going to support clients, what's demand we're seeing, what kind of risks are out there. In the fourth quarter, we have the FDIC special assessment potentially coming. And so there's a whole -- each quarter, there's going to be a whole range of things that we're going to go through, and then we'll decide on pacing.

是的。我的意思是，我們不會試圖向您提供有關節奏的看法。我們要去 - 我們有一個每個季度都要經歷的流程來查看所有正在發生的事情。首先，我們如何支持客戶，我們看到什麼需求，有什麼樣的風險。第四季度，我們可能會收到 FDIC 的特別評估。因此，每個季度，我們都會經歷一系列的事情，然後我們將決定節奏。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Gerard Cassidy of RBC.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 RBC 的 Gerard Cassidy。

Mike, can you share with us -- you and your peers as well as investors, we've all been surprised with how this deposit trend of moving money into higher-yielding deposits is going slower than expected. Is there any categories within your deposit base, whether it's just your regular consumer deposits or high net worth deposits or the nonoperational commercial deposits that are moving more slowly? And I know you said you expect it to happen, but is there something that says that it could pick up real quickly in the next 6 months? Or is it just a gradual increase?

麥克，您能否與我們分享一下——您和您的同行以及投資者，我們都對這種將資金轉移到高收益存款的存款趨勢比預期慢的情況感到驚訝。您的存款基礎中是否有任何類別，無論是常規消費者存款或高淨值存款，還是流動速度較慢的非經營性商業存款？我知道您說過您預計這種情況會發生，但是否有跡象表明這種情況會在未來 6 個月內迅速回升？還是只是逐漸增加？

Yes. Gerard, I think you really have to pick it apart by the different businesses. I think in the wealth business, it moved quite quickly, right, in terms of seeing deposits decline from where they were and that is now moderated. So it's good to see that, that shifting has sort of slowed down quite substantially in the quarter relative to the last couple of quarters.

是的。傑拉德，我認為你真的必須根據不同的業務來區分它。我認為在財富業務中，存款從原來的水平開始下降，現在已經放緩，發展得相當快，對吧。因此，很高興看到，與過去幾季相比，本季的轉變速度明顯放緩。

On the consumer side, the majority of the deposits that we've got sit in accounts with less than $250,000. And so to some degree, these are -- to a large degree, these are operational accounts for folks. And so there's some portion of those funds that are never going to move into other places because people need it in the accounts to live and operate every day.

在消費者方面，我們的存款大多存放在 25 萬美元以下的帳戶中。因此，在某種程度上，這些在很大程度上是人們的營運帳戶。因此，這些資金中的一部分永遠不會轉移到其他地方，因為人們每天都需要將其存入帳戶來生活和運作。

And so I think what's -- so I think we'll see, right? And I think we're all in a bit of uncharted territory at this point with rates being where they are and the pace at which they got there, quantitative tightening happening. And so I think we need to be prepared for it to change. Exactly at what pace and over what period of time, we'll see. But we certainly haven't seen deposit pricing move the way we modeled it a year ago, for sure.

所以我想是什麼——所以我想我們會看到的，對嗎？我認為，目前我們都處於一個未知的領域，利率處於當前水平，達到該水平的速度，而量化緊縮正在發生。所以我認為我們需要為它的改變做好準備。到底以什麼速度、在什麼時間內進行，我們拭目以待。但我們肯定還沒有看到存款定價像我們一年前建模的那樣變化。

Very good. And then as a follow-up, since you and Charlie have come on board, Wells has really done a very good job in returning that excess capital. I understand everything that's going on today, and you guys described it in your comments. Can you share with us, is there a buffer -- whenever the final numbers come out, are you guys planning to keep a 100 basis point buffer above that? Or any color there?

非常好。作為後續行動，自從你和查理加入以來，威爾斯在返還多餘資本方面確實做得非常好。我了解今天發生的一切，你們在評論中也描述了這一點。您能否與我們分享一下，是否有一個緩衝——每當最終數據公佈時，您是否計劃在該數字之上保持 100 個基點的緩衝？或是有什麼顏色嗎？

Yes. We haven't decided exactly what it'll -- what the buffer will look like after Basel III is implemented. But so far, what we've said a number of times is that 100 basis points is about where we've been targeting. Obviously, we've been running above that for a while. But we'll -- as we get a better view of where these rules are going to shake out, we'll probably talk about that more. But I would think that 100 basis points, at least for now is sort of the bottom end of the range.

是的。我們還沒有確切地決定它會是什麼樣子——巴塞爾協議 III 實施後緩衝區會是什麼樣子。但到目前為止，我們已經多次說過，100 個基點就是我們的目標。顯然，我們已經在上面運行了一段時間了。但當我們更了解這些規則將在哪些方面發生變化時，我們可能會更多地討論這一點。但我認為 100 個基點至少目前是該區間的底部。

And that was our final question for today. I will now turn it over to your speakers for closing remarks.

這是我們今天的最後一個問題。現在我將把它交給各位發言者作結束語。

All righty. Everyone, thank you very much. We look forward to talking to you again next quarter. Take care now.

好吧。大家，非常感謝。我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。現在保重。

Thank you for your participation on today's conference call. At this time, all parties may disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的電話會議。這時，各方都可能斷開連線。