諾基亞 (NOK) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nokia's third-quarter 2024 results call. I'm David Mulholland, Head of Nokia Investor Relations. And today, with me is Pekka Lundmark, our President and CEO, along with Marco Wirén, our CFO.

早安，女士們先生們。歡迎參加諾基亞 2024 年第三季業績電話會議。我是諾基亞投資者關係主管大衛‧穆赫蘭。今天，與我在一起的有我們的總裁兼執行長 Pekka Lundmark 以及我們的財務長 Marco Wirén。

Before we get started, a quick disclaimer. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business, proposed transactions and financial performance, and these statements are predictions that involve risks and uncertainties.

在我們開始之前，先簡單聲明一下。在本次電話會議中，我們將就我們的未來業務、擬議交易和財務業績做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述是涉及風險和不確定性的預測。

Actual results may therefore differ materially from the results we currently expect. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our Annual Report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

因此，實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果有重大差異。可能導致這種差異的因素既可以是外部因素，也可以是內部營運因素。我們已在 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分中識別出此類風險，該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上取得。

Within today's presentation, references to growth rates will mostly be on a constant currency basis and we will refer to margins, it will be based on our comparable reporting. Please note that our Q3 report and the presentation that accompanies this call are published on our website. The report includes both reported and comparable financial results, and a reconciliation between the two.

在今天的演示中，對成長率的提及主要是在固定貨幣的基礎上，我們將提及利潤率，它將基於我們的可比較報告。請注意，我們的第三季報告和本次電話會議附帶的簡報已發佈在我們的網站上。該報告包括報告的和可比較的財務結果，以及兩者之間的調節表。

In terms of the agenda for today’s call, Pekka will go through our key messages for the quarter, Marco will then go into more detail on our financial performance and then Pekka will make a few comments on a particular highlights from Q3, we'll then move to Q&A.

就今天電話會議的議程而言，Pekka 將詳細介紹我們本季度的關鍵信息，Marco 將詳細介紹我們的財務業績，然後 Pekka 將就第三季度的特定亮點發表一些評論，我們然後將進入問答環節。

With that, let me hand over to Pekka.

那麼，就讓我把任務交給佩卡吧。

Thank you, David, and thank you for all joining us today. Overall, the big picture is that the market is turning, but it's turning slowly. We see encouraging signs of market recovery in fixed networks and IP networks, but even if it is a bit slower than we expected earlier this year, and optical networks and mobile networks remain weaker.

謝謝你，大衛，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。整體而言，大局是市場正在轉變，但轉變緩慢。我們看到固定網路和IP網路市場出現令人鼓舞的復甦跡象，但即使比我們今年稍早的預期慢一些，光纖網路和行動網路仍然疲軟。

Fixed networks grew 9% in the quarter, while IP networks grew 6%. Originally, both saw strong growth in North America, as the inventory digestion is now largely behind us and operator deployment plans have solidified. Demand trends in NI continue to improve with solid order intake growth, and a book-to-bill above one.

本季固定網路成長 9%，而 IP 網路成長 6%。最初，兩者都在北美實現了強勁增長，因為庫存消化現在已基本結束，並且運營商部署計劃已經固化。 NI 的需求趨勢持續改善，訂單量穩定成長，訂單出貨比超過 1。

We also saw a significant improvement in our gross margin with all business groups contributing. We continue to take quick action on our cost savings program and have now achieved EUR500 million in run rate gross cost savings. The quarter also saw good deal momentum. We signed a number of important deals across all business groups, and I'll touch on some of these later in the presentation.

在所有業務部門的貢獻下，我們的毛利率也顯著提高。我們繼續對成本節約計畫採取快速行動，目前已實現運行率總成本節約 5 億歐元。本季也出現了良好的交易勢頭。我們在所有業務部門簽署了許多重要交易，我將在稍後的演示中談到其中的一些交易。

We are making progress expanding to non-CSP customers and are increasing investments to accelerate growth opportunities in areas like the fast-growing data center space in defense and in private wireless. We continue to have a year of strong free cash flow, generating over EUR600 million in Q3 and EUR2 billion year to date.

我們正在向非 CSP 客戶擴展，並正在增加投資，以加速國防和專用無線領域快速成長的資料中心空間等領域的成長機會。我們今年繼續保持強勁的自由現金流，第三季創造了超過 6 億歐元，今年迄今創造了 20 億歐元。

Our financial outlook for 2024 is unchanged, and we are currently tracking in the bottom half of the range for comparable operating profit and at the high end of the range for free cash flow conversion.

我們對 2024 年的財務前景保持不變，目前我們追蹤的可比營業利潤處於該範圍的下半部分，自由現金流轉換處於該範圍的高端。

Finally, we have made good progress on the Infinera acquisition, receiving antitrust and CFIUS approval in the US along with Infinera shareholders approving the deal a couple of weeks ago. We continue to target to close the deal in H1 2025.

最後，我們在英飛朗收購方面取得了良好進展，並獲得了美國反壟斷和美國外國投資委員會的批准，英飛朗股東幾週前也批准了該交易。我們繼續目標是在 2025 年上半年完成交易。

And then over to you, Marco.

然後就輪到你了，馬可。

Okay, thank you, Pekka. And hello from my side as well from the sunny Helsinki. I will start by discussing our overall group performance and the net sales declined of 7% in quarter three was mainly driven by mobile networks.

好的，謝謝你，佩卡。我這邊以及陽光明媚的赫爾辛基也向您問好。我首先討論我們集團的整體業績，第三季淨銷售額下降 7%，主要是由行動網路推動的。

Importantly, however, we delivered significant improvements in gross margin, expanding by 490 base points year on year. This was driven by a combination of improved product, regional mix and action to reduce product costs.

但重要的是，我們的毛利率顯著提高，較去年同期成長 490 個基點。這是由改進的產品、區域組合和降低產品成本的行動共同推動的。

Our operating margin was solid at 2.5%. This was supported by strong gross margin, continued cost control and benefit from the reversal of loss allowances for certain trade receivables that was recognized in other operating terms.

我們的營業利益率穩定在 2.5%。這得益於強勁的毛利率、持續的成本控制以及在其他經營條款中確認的某些貿易應收帳款損失準備轉回帶來的好處。

We were pleased to report a strong free cash flow of over EUR600 million, which means we ended the quarter of the net cash balance of EUR5.5 billion. Now, as I turn to discuss each business performance, it is worth noting that we have lowered the net sales assumption for each of the networks. Considering slower pace, market recovery as Pekka mentioned, we have also slightly adjusted operating margin range.

我們很高興地報告了超過 6 億歐元的強勁自由現金流，這意味著我們本季末的淨現金餘額為 55 億歐元。現在，當我開始討論每項業務績效時，值得注意的是，我們降低了每個網路的淨銷售額假設。考慮到佩卡提到的步伐放緩和市場復甦，我們也略微調整了營業利潤率範圍。

Network infrastructure sales showed modest year-on-year growth in the quarter after five quarters of decline. We were pleased to see growth in both fixed networks at 9% and IP networks at 6%. Optical networks declined by 15%, optical was the last unit to start seeing the market slowdown and will likely be the last to recover. We were encouraged to see double-digit growth in all three businesses in North America.

網路基礎設施銷售在連續五季下降後，本季較去年同期出現小幅成長。我們很高興看到固定網路成長 9%，IP 網路成長 6%。光網路下降了 15%，光網路是最後一個開始看到市場放緩的部門，並且很可能是最後一個恢復的部門。看到北美三項業務均達到兩位數成長，我們深受鼓舞。

Gross margins improved mainly driven by favorable mix between businesses and also improvement within IP networks. Operating margin was 11.8% and this is 100 basis points improvement driven by the higher gross margin and a reduction in operating expenses. And based on our current view of the market and the slow pace of recovery, we now expect network infrastructure net sales to be down 3% to 6% this year and operating margin to be between 10% and 12%.

毛利率的改善主要得益於業務之間的有利組合以及 IP 網路內的改善。營業利益率為 11.8%，由於毛利率提高和營業費用減少，營業利潤率提高了 100 個基點。根據我們目前對市場的看法以及緩慢的復甦步伐，我們現在預計今年網路基礎設施淨銷售額將下降 3% 至 6%，營業利潤率將在 10% 至 12% 之間。

Mobile network sales declined by 17%. This was mainly driven by the decrease in India as 5G deployment remained elevated in the year ago quarter. North America also declined which reflect impact of lower market share of customer. Recently, gross margin increased by 500 basis points as a result of improved product costs, favorable product regional.

行動網路銷售額下降了 17%。這主要是由於印度的 5G 部署量在去年同期保持在較高水準而下降。北美地區也出現下滑，反映出客戶市佔率下降的影響。近期，由於產品成本改善、產品區域有利，毛利率成長了500個基點。

Operating margin was 5.3%, an increase of 70 basis points driven mainly by the improvement in gross margin while operating expenses were largely stable. The revised total consumption for mobile networks net sales is now decline of 19% to 22% with an operating margin of [5% to 7%].

營業利益率為 5.3%，成長 70 個基點，主要是由於毛利率改善，而營業費用基本上穩定。修正後的行動網路淨銷售額總消耗目前下降 19% 至 22%，營運利潤率 [5% 至 7%]。

Cloud and network services sales declined by 4% in the quarter. This was mainly related to the divest we did earlier in this year and adjusting for this, net sales would have been stable. Operating margin improved driven by higher gross margin and lower operating expenses. And our updated assumption for cloud and network services is now a decline of 4% to 7% with an operated margin between 6% to 8%.

該季度雲端和網路服務銷售額下降了 4%。這主要與我們今年稍早進行的剝離有關，對此進行調整後，淨銷售額將保持穩定。由於毛利率上升和營運費用下降，營業利潤率有所改善。我們對雲端和網路服務的最新假設是下降 4% 至 7%，營運利潤率在 6% 至 8% 之間。

Moving next to Nokia Technologies, net sales grew 36% in quarter three, mainly as a result of the smartphone licensing agreements signed previously this year. Nokia Technologies also saw higher sales from automotive and IoT, including agreements with point-of-sale payments divide.

其次是諾基亞科技公司，第三季淨銷售額成長了 36%，這主要歸功於今年稍早簽署的智慧型手機授權協議。諾基亞技術公司的汽車和物聯網銷售額也有所成長，其中包括銷售點支付協議。

We were also pleased to be able to announce that we have now signed with two video streaming companies for use of our technology. This is an important step for us in this new growth area. Nokia Technologies’ annual net sales run rate has been gradually increased in the recent quarter, but continues to round to approximately EUR1.3 billion in the third quarter.

我們也很高興地宣布，我們現在已與兩家視訊串流媒體公司簽約使用我們的技術。這是我們在這個新增長領域中邁出的重要一步。諾基亞技術公司的年度淨銷售額運行率在最近一個季度逐漸上升，但在第三季繼續接近 13 億歐元。

Let's look at the net sales per week. You see here that India throws the majority of net sales decline in quarter three, as the region still saw the heavy 5G deployment in the third quarter, hence the 43% decline.

讓我們看看每週的淨銷售額。您可以看到，印度在第三季帶來了大部分淨銷售額下降，因為該地區在第三季仍大量部署 5G，因此下降了 43%。

Also worth noting was North America, where strong growth in network infrastructure was offset by mobile networks. Indeed, overall, Americas core network infrastructure grew 21% in the quarter. Other regions showed declines with exception of Europe, which showed 1% growth. However, this was entirely due to Nokia Technologies, which is fully reported in this region. And excluding Nokia Technologies net sales in Europe would have declined by approximately 7%.

另外值得注意的是北美，該地區網路基礎設施的強勁成長被行動網路所抵消。事實上，總體而言，本季美洲核心網路基礎設施成長了 21%。除歐洲成長 1% 外，其他地區均出現下降。然而，這完全歸功於諾基亞技術，該地區對此進行了全面報導。如果不包括諾基亞技術公司，歐洲的淨銷售額將下降約 7%。

And looking at our cash in quarter three, we saw another quarter of strong free cash flow at over EUR600 million. This was driven by solid operating profit and changes in working capital, which benefited from lower receivables. During the quarter, we also returned EUR360 million to shareholders through dividends and share buybacks. And we ended the quarter with a net cash position of EUR5.5 billion.

看看我們第三季的現金，我們發現另一個季度的自由現金流強勁，超過 6 億歐元。這是由穩健的營業利潤和營運資本的變化所推動的，而營運資本的變化得益於應收帳款的減少。本季，我們也透過股利和股票回購向股東返還 3.6 億歐元。本季結束時，我們的淨現金部位為 55 億歐元。

With that, let me hand it back over to Pekka.

那麼，讓我把它交還給佩卡吧。

Thank you, Marco.

謝謝你，馬可。

The first topic I want to cover in this section is the market outlook. As we started this year, we knew parts of the market would remain challenging such as mobile networks given the tough comparison in India after significant 5G rollout. We were however optimistic in areas like IP and fixed networks would start to recover in the second half of the year as inventory dynamics would normalize and lower interest rates could help stimulate investment.

我想在本節中討論的第一個主題是市場前景。今年伊始，我們就知道部分市場仍將充滿挑戰，例如行動網絡，因為印度在 5G 大規模推出後面臨嚴峻的比較。然而，我們對 IP 和固定網路等領域將在下半年開始復甦持樂觀態度，因為庫存動態將正常化，而較低的利率可能有助於刺激投資。

Looking at the market today, I'm encouraged that we are now seeing an improving dynamic in fixed networks and IP networks with the inventory issues now largely behind us. However, as you can see in the slide, the overall market dynamic has clearly been weaker than anyone expected at the start of the year and this continues to impact our net sales assumptions.

縱觀當今的市場，令我感到鼓舞的是，我們現在看到固定網路和 IP 網路的動態不斷改善，庫存問題現在已基本成為過去。然而，正如您在幻燈片中看到的那樣，整體市場動態顯然弱於年初的任何人預期，這繼續影響我們的淨銷售額假設。

Our focus during this period has been on managing our cost base and executing against our strategic pillars. This means ensuring that we win deals that can expand our footprint, maintaining our pricing discipline and investing to diversify our business and drive expansion in high growth non-CSP markets. mobile networks is a good example of this.

在此期間，我們的重點是管理我們的成本基礎並根據我們的策略支柱執行。這意味著確保我們贏得能夠擴大業務範圍的交易，維持我們的定價紀律，並進行投資以使我們的業務多元化並推動高成長的非 CSP 市場的擴張。行動網路就是一個很好的例子。

We have been seeing really good deal momentum in recent months evidenced by wins with Vodafone Idea, NTT Docomo, Japan and then also in Brazil, New Zealand, and Vietnam where we have either gained or maintained market share.

近幾個月來，我們看到了非常好的交易勢頭，與 Vodafone Idea、NTT Docomo、日本以及巴西、紐西蘭和越南的勝利證明了這一點，我們在這些國家獲得或維持了市場份額。

In addition to the deals we have been winning, the team has also done an excellent job in managing their cost base. At our progress update in December of last year, Tommi provided details and mobile networks revamped strategy and how MN would re-baseline its operations, improve its go-to-market and drive productivity and efficiencies through the business.

除了我們贏得的交易之外，該團隊在管理成本基礎方面也做得非常出色。在我們去年 12 月的進度更新中，Tommi 提供了詳細資訊和行動網路改進策略，以及 MN 將如何重新調整其營運基準、改善其進入市場並透過業務提高生產力和效率。

You can see here on the slide that through many of these actions mobile networks has been able to reduce product costs which in turn has been driving improvements in gross margin in recent quarters. MN has also been taking quick action on operating expenses which were down approximately 6% year on year in Q3 when excluding the impact of variable pay accruals.

您可以在投影片上看到，透過許多這些行動，行動網路已經能夠降低產品成本，這反過來又推動了最近幾個季度毛利率的提高。 MN 也迅速採取行動控制營運費用，在排除可變薪酬應計費用的影響後，第三季營運費用年減約 6%。

We said last December that by 2026 we would lower the approximate net sales required to deliver double digit operating margin in mobile networks from EUR11.5 billion to EUR10 billion. We have now further lowered this required net sales level forward for a double digit operating margin to EUR9.5 billion over the same timeframe.

我們去年 12 月表示，到 2026 年，我們將把行動網路實現兩位數營業利潤所需的淨銷售額約為 115 億歐元降至 100 億歐元。現在，我們已將同期營業利潤率所需的淨銷售額水準進一步降低至 95 億歐元。

Moving on to network infrastructure and the current market dynamics. I know Federico and his team gave you a detailed explanation recently with our progress update event this September, but I will revisit some of the key opportunities we see. In fixed networks, there remains a significant opportunity as more homes are connected with fiber. Currently around 70% of homes excluding China do not have fiber.

接下來討論網路基礎設施和當前的市場動態。我知道 Federico 和他的團隊最近在今年 9 月的進度更新活動中向您提供了詳細的解釋，但我將重新審視我們看到的一些關鍵機會。在固定網路中，隨著越來越多的家庭使用光纖連接，仍然存在巨大的機會。目前，除中國外，約有 70% 的家庭沒有光纖。

Operators around the globe continue to show a strong appetite to drive fiber connectivity higher. There are also significant government programs starting to take effect. We continue to expect some of our first revenue under the USB program in Q4 this year.

全球營運商繼續表現出提高光纖連接水平的強烈願望。一些重要的政府計劃也開始生效。我們仍然預計今年第四季我們將透過 USB 計畫獲得部分首筆收入。

The program has taken time to build momentum, but this is now starting to move fast with all states having volume one approved and good progress in volume two. We continue to see good progress in mature markets moving to upgrades with XGS and 25 GPON. In addition, we see good market expansion opportunities with fixed wireless which is ramping again in some markets including India and a new opportunity we call Optical LAN.

該計劃需要時間來建立動力，但現在開始快速推進，所有州都已批准第一卷，第二卷也取得了良好進展。我們繼續看到成熟市場在 XGS 和 25 GPON 升級方面取得了良好進展。此外，我們也看到固定無線市場良好的市場擴張機會，固定無線網路在包括印度在內的一些市場再次崛起，還有一個我們稱為光纖區域網路的新機會。

This is where enterprise customers would use passive optical equipment for in-building networks such as in offices. You can create a future-proof network supporting all the way up to 100 gigabits per second, which is also highly power-efficient and over time could take share from the Compose Ethernet switching market.

這是企業客戶將無源光學設備用於建築物內網路（例如辦公室）的地方。您可以創建一個面向未來的網絡，支援高達每秒 100 吉比特的速度，該網絡也具有很高的能效，並且隨著時間的推移，可以從 Compose 以太網交換市場中奪取份額。

For optical networks, we continuously talked a lot -- we obviously talked a lot about this already back in June when we announced the Infinera acquisition. The market is clearly weak today and may take some time to recover.

對於光網絡，我們不斷地談論了很多——顯然，早在 6 月我們宣布收購 Infinera 時，我們就已經談論了很多。今天市場明顯疲軟，可能需要一段時間才能恢復。

We feel confident about the future opportunity, however. PSE-6s has put us in a technology leadership position that continues to resonate with customers. We also look forward to the pending Infinera acquisition that will significantly increase our scale in North America and exposure to webscale customers. I believe the future combined of the company will be extremely well positioned for future growth and, importantly, towards new AI-driven data center opportunities.

然而，我們對未來的機會充滿信心。 PSE-6s 使我們處於技術領先地位，並持續引起客戶的共鳴。我們也期待即將進行的英飛朗收購，這將顯著擴大我們在北美的規模和網路規模客戶的曝光。我相信，公司未來的合併將為未來的成長做好充分的準備，更重要的是，它將為新的人工智慧驅動的資料中心機會做好準備。

Finally, in IP networks , our market position in service provider edge routing remains strong with our market -leading FP5 and FPcx-based products. We have seen a growing opportunity in the enterprise and webscale markets having signed some important deals recently. We are increasing investments in this space as we see a significant opportunity to diversify our IP networks business with mission critical networks and also into the data center. We are investing to expand our product portfolio to accelerate these opportunities.

最後，在 IP 網路中，憑藉市場領先的 FP5 和 FPcx 產品，我們在服務供應商邊緣路由的市場地位依然強勁。我們看到企業和網路規模市場的機會不斷成長，最近簽署了一些重要協議。我們正在增加在這一領域的投資，因為我們看到了透過關鍵任務網路以及資料中心實現 IP 網路業務多元化的重要機會。我們正在投資擴大我們的產品組合，以加速這些機會。

Various estimates put the TAM in these areas at about EUR20 billion, so it's a great opportunity for us to grow into. And just as a reminder to put that EUR20 billion in perspective, we estimate that our service provider TAM is around EUR84 billion at the moment. So this will be a significant addition to our TAM when we move forward.

根據各種估計，這些領域的 TAM 約為 200 億歐元，因此這對我們來說是一個成長的絕佳機會。提醒大家正確看待這 200 億歐元，我們估計我們的服務供應商 TAM 目前約為 840 億歐元。因此，當我們繼續前進時，這將是我們 TAM 的重要補充。

In terms of some more tangible elements of our progress on the diversification of IP into enterprise and webscale, we can see on this slide some of the progress we have made in this strategic pillar. CoreWeave is an AI hyperscaler and will deploy our IP routing and optical transport portfolios globally as part of an extensive backbone build-out with immediate rollout across CoreWeave's data centers in the US and Europe. This is an important win for us and we are excited to start on this journey with them.

就我們在企業和網路規模智慧財產權多元化方面取得的一些更具體的進展而言，我們可以在這張投影片上看到我們在這項策略支柱方面取得的一些進展。 CoreWeave 是一家 AI 超大規模供應商，將在全球部署我們的 IP 路由和光傳輸產品組合，作為廣泛骨幹網路建設的一部分，並立即在 CoreWeave 位於美國和歐洲的資料中心推出。這對我們來說是一次重要的勝利，我們很高興能與他們一起開始這段旅程。

We also recently announced a new product with the launch of our Event-Driven Automation platform or EDA. With EDA, you can automate the entire data center network lifecycle from design through deployment and into operation. This abstracts a lot of the complexity of managing multi-vendor networks and really complements our SR Linux network operating system.

我們最近也推出了一款新產品，即事件驅動自動化平台（EDA）。透過 EDA，您可以自動化整個資料中心網路生命週期（從設計到部署再到營運）。這大大簡化了管理多供應商網路的複雜性，真正補充了我們的 SR Linux 網路作業系統。

In cloud and network services, the markets remain challenging, but we have seen excellent momentum in 5G core. We continue to drive our leadership position in the 5G core market and today Nokia leads the world in 5G live core Networks.

在雲端和網路服務方面，市場仍然充滿挑戰，但我們看到5G核心網路的良好勢頭。我們繼續鞏固我們在 5G 核心市場的領導地位，如今諾基亞在 5G 即時核心網路領域處於世界領先地位。

Our key differentiator, one key differentiator for us is in how we are driving the cloud native transformation, giving operators flexibility in how they want to deploy their networks. This transition to cloud native is a critical enabler of the desire to create more programmable and automated networks in the future.

我們的一個關鍵區別在於我們如何推動雲端原生轉型，讓營運商能夠靈活地部署網路。向雲端原生的過渡是未來創建更多可編程和自動化網路的關鍵推動因素。

We have supported this wireless with the launch of the first telco network using 5G standalone core on AWS and have since also deployed 5G core networks on public clouds with O2 Telefónica, Deutschland, Comcast, and Telenet to name a few.

我們透過在 AWS 上推出第一個使用 5G 獨立核心的電信網路來支援這種無線技術，此後還在 O2 Telefónica、Deutschland、Comcast 和 Telenet 等公有雲上部署了 5G 核心網路。

We mark the one-year anniversary of the launch of our network as Code platform in September, ending the quarter with more than 20 network API partners globally, including many of the world's leading CSPs, for example British Telecom, Orange Telefónica and Deutsche Telekom, Germany, as well as ecosystem partners such as Infobip and Google.

我們在 9 月慶祝了 Network as Code 平台推出一周年，截至本季末，我們在全球擁有 20 多個網路 API 合作夥伴，其中包括許多世界領先的 CSP，例如英國電信、Orange Telefónica 和德國電信。 ，以及Infobip 和Google 等生態系合作夥伴。

Regarding our comparable operating profit outlook, this remains unchanged. While we have lowered the net sales outlook assumptions for our business groups, this is being compensated for by high gross margins and the progress we are making on cost savings. We are currently tracking within bottom half of comparable operating range and at the high end of our free cash flow range.

關於我們的可比營業利潤前景，這一點保持不變。雖然我們降低了業務部門的淨銷售前景假設，但高毛利率和我們在成本節約方面取得的進展彌補了這一點。目前，我們正處於可比經營範圍的下半部和自由現金流範圍的高端。

So in conclusion, as we have outlined, the overall market weakness that has characterized this year showed some signs of improvement with growth in both fixed networks and IP, and stabilization in cloud and network services.

總而言之，正如我們所概述的那樣，今年的整體市場疲軟狀況隨著固定網路和 IP 的成長以及雲端和網路服務的穩定而出現了一些改善的跡象。

We are pleased to see strong growth margin across all business groups reflecting positive regional and product mix as well as the impact of the cost savings measures, we announced earlier. Positively, we saw some good deal momentum, particularly mobile networks where we have been winning new business in Brazil, India, Japan, Vietnam, and New Zealand.

我們很高興看到所有業務集團的強勁成長利潤反映了積極的區域和產品組合以及我們早些時候宣布的成本節約措施的影響。積極的一面是，我們看到了一些良好的交易勢頭，特別是行動網絡，我們在巴西、印度、日本、越南和紐西蘭贏得了新業務。

Our strong cash performance means that we have EUR5.5 billion net cash at the end of the quarter, and if you recall, we have also accelerated the share buyback program. Finally, as we just shared, we are tracking within the ranges we set for the full year.

我們強勁的現金表現意味著本季末我們擁有 55 億歐元的淨現金，如果您還記得的話，我們還加快了股票回購計畫。最後，正如我們剛剛分享的那樣，我們正在全年設定的範圍內進行追蹤。

With that, let me hand over to David for Q&A.

接下來，讓我將問題交給 David 進行問答。

Thank you, Pekka and Marco.

謝謝佩卡和馬可。

Before we move to the Q&A session, just a quick comment on some of our plans in terms of investor events. We are planning to hold a Capital Markets Day in 2025 after the Infinera deal has closed. And obviously, there's still a bit of uncertainty around the timing on exactly when that will be so we don't have an exact date yet, but we'll communicate such as soon as we're able to.

在進入問答環節之前，我們先簡單評論一下我們在投資者活動方面的一些計劃。我們計劃在 2025 年英飛朗交易完成後舉辦資本市場日。顯然，確切的時間仍然存在一些不確定性，因此我們還沒有確切的日期，但我們會盡快進行溝通。

So with that, let's start with the Q&A. As usual for the Q&A session, as a courtesy to others in the queue, please limit yourself to one question and a brief follow-up. Alice, could you please give the instructions?

那麼，讓我們從問答開始。與問答環節一樣，出於對隊列中其他人的禮貌，請限制自己提出一個問題並進行簡短的跟進。愛麗絲，你能指點一下嗎？

(Operator Instructions) I will now hand the call back to Mr. David Mulholland.

（接線員指示）我現在將電話轉回給 David Mulholland 先生。

Thanks, Alice. Joachim Gael, D&B.

謝謝，愛麗絲。約阿希姆·蓋爾，D&B。

Thank you for that, David. So can you just help us understand here how much of this considerable gross margin improvement stand from structural actions, supply chain utilization, and telco as opposed to geographic needs? And just comment a bit whether this one-off AR benefits actually impacts the gross margin or is it more on the OpEx side? Thank you.

謝謝你，大衛。那麼，您能否幫助我們了解，毛利率的顯著提高有多少是來自結構性行動、供應鏈利用率和電信公司，而不是地理需求？請評論一下這種一次性的 AR 收益是否真的會影響毛利率，還是更多地影響營運支出？謝謝。

Thank you, Joachim. And I started with the reversal of the allowance of trade receivables. And just to be very clear, that did not impact the gross margin. We always booked those in other operating income and expenses. And what comes to gross margin performance in the quarter, I would say that it's quite equal to what comes to product mix and regional mix, and also the product cost reductions that we have.

謝謝你，約阿希姆。我從應收帳款備抵的轉回開始。需要明確的是，這並沒有影響毛利率。我們總是將這些記入其他營業收入和支出。我想說，本季的毛利率表現與產品組合和區域組合以及我們的產品成本降低相當。

Did you have a follow-up, Joachim?

約阿希姆，你有後續嗎？

Yes, very briefly. So on the order intake momentum across your different NI units and quarter to sequential lowered net sales assumptions, can you just discuss the trajectory here with a unit basis where you see incremental strength and weakness? Thank you.

是的，非常簡短。因此，關於不同 NI 單位的訂單接收勢頭以及季度環比降低的淨銷售額假設，您能否以單位為基礎討論這裡的軌跡，您可以看到增量的強弱？謝謝。

Well, first of all, as I already said, the overall trajectory is turning. But of course, we recognize that we continue to have a top one challenge. The good thing is that since now Q4 last year, we have had positive momentum in orders and book-to-bill more than one. So that means that the order backlog is building. It is building now, especially in fixed and IP, more so than in optical.

嗯，首先，正如我已經說過的，整體軌跡正在轉變。但當然，我們認識到我們仍然面臨著首要挑戰。好消息是，自去年第四季以來，我們的訂單和訂單到帳單出現了不只一個的正面勢頭。這意味著訂單積壓正在增加。現在它正在建設中，特別是在固定和IP領域，比光纖領域更是如此。

And then from a geographical point of view, an extremely encouraging sign is that the momentum is picking up strongest in North America, because that was also the first market that started to weaken when the cycle turned about a year and a half, two years ago.

然後從地理角度來看，一個極其令人鼓舞的跡像是，北美的勢頭正在增強，因為這也是兩年前，當週期轉向大約一年半時，第一個開始走弱的市場。

And now it seems to be driving growth also. We actually had double-digit growth in North America in all units of NI. So that's where the growth is coming at. Additional comment there, another positive thing is that now the momentum in NI is picking up with Tier 1 operators also in North America.

現在它似乎也在推動成長。事實上，我們在北美的所有 NI 部門都實現了兩位數的成長。這就是增長的所在。那裡的補充評論，另一個積極的事情是，現在 NI 的勢頭正在與北美的一級運營商一起回升。

Simon Leopold, Raymond James.

西蒙·利奧波德，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Thank you very much for taking the question. I wanted to follow up on this announcement you had in the quarter regarding CoreWeave win as I think a good reference for gaining some exposure to AI, I'm wondering if you could elaborate how, you see opportunities like this evolving in your business and then more broadly how to think about the longer-term strategy of evolving the customers away from the telco base into more enterprise-like opportunities. Thank you.

非常感謝您提出問題。我想跟進您在本季度發布的有關CoreWeave 獲勝的公告，因為我認為這是接觸人工智慧的一個很好的參考，我想知道您是否可以詳細說明如何在您的業務中看到這樣的機會，然後更廣泛地講，如何考慮將客戶從電信基礎發展為更多類似企業的機會的長期策略。謝謝。

Yes, thanks Simon. This is obviously in the very core of our strategy, this whole question as I said earlier our telco TAM is EUR84 billion, data center TAM is currently at EUR20 billion albeit we are not yet able to address all of it but we are gradually getting towards that goal.

是的，謝謝西蒙。這顯然是我們策略的核心，正如我之前所說，整個問題是我們的電信 TAM 為 840 億歐元，而資料中心 TAM 目前為 200 億歐元，儘管我們還無法解決所有問題，但我們正在逐步實現那個目標。

That EUR84 billion even though the telco TAM is expected to recover somewhat next year, but we have to be realistic. I mean, telco TAM will never be a significant growth market. So the only way to grow there will be through taking market show, which we have cost targeting, but it's not the growth market.

儘管電信公司 TAM 預計明年會恢復，但我們必須面對現實，即 840 億歐元。我的意思是，電信 TAM 永遠不會成為一個顯著成長的市場。因此，成長的唯一方法是透過市場展示，我們有成本目標，但這不是成長市場。

Datacenters will be our number one growth target for the coming years. There will be others as well, but that will be the number one. And we already have references like Apple and Microsoft in this space, but the reason why CoreWeave is so important is that they are now the leading GPU as a service company. And they have now taken pretty much our entire portfolio, both on the IP side and optical side.

資料中心將是我們未來幾年的首要成長目標。還會有其他人，但這將是第一位。我們在這個領域已經有像蘋果和微軟這樣的參考公司，但 CoreWeave 如此重要的原因是他們現在是領先的 GPU 即服務公司。他們現在幾乎佔據了我們的整個產品組合，無論是 IP 方面還是光學方面。

And as we know, AI is driving new business models and one of the business models is clearly GPU as a service. If you look at what even some of the operators like T-Mobile did in their Capital Markets Day, they are talking about an opportunity to look into GPU as a service as an add-on to their business. And then of course, there is the significant hyperscaler opportunities and smaller data center opportunities.

眾所周知，人工智慧正在推動新的商業模式，其中一個商業模式顯然就是 GPU 即服務。如果你看看像 T-Mobile 這樣的一些運營商在資本市場日所做的事情，他們正在談論一個將 GPU 即服務作為其業務附加組件的機會。當然，還有重要的超大規模機會和小型資料中心機會。

So this is something that this particular application is going to be driving significant growth opportunities for us. Vach and Mike talked about this in our recent NI event in September. And what we plan to do then going forward is that once we get the Infinera deal closed, we will arrange a Capital Market Day where we will then do a deep dive into our growth segments outside of telcos.

因此，這個特定的應用程式將為我們帶來重大的成長機會。 Vach 和 Mike 在我們最近 9 月的 NI 活動中談到了這一點。我們接下來計畫要做的是，一旦完成與英飛朗的交易，我們將安排一個資本市場日，深入探討電信公司以外的成長領域。

And obviously it goes without saying that this will be the number one target for that opportunity, because we are already today quite well exposed to data centers on the IP side, but then the Infinera deal will significantly increase our exposure also on the optical side.

顯然，不言而喻，這將是該機會的首要目標，因為我們今天已經很好地接觸到了 IP 方面的資料中心，但英飛朗的交易也將顯著增加我們在光學方面的接觸。

And it will help us to get more and more inside the data center fabric, because the role of optics will increase also not only in connections between data centers, but gradually also inside data centers when we are connecting servers to each other, and once we get there, that market will be of extremely high volumes.

它將幫助我們越來越深入地了解資料中心結構，因為光學的作用不僅會在資料中心之間的連接中增加，而且當我們將伺服器相互連接時，光學的作用也會逐漸增加在資料中心內部，一旦我們到達那裡，該市場的容量將非常大。

But again, I know that we will need to get more tangible on this and talk about concrete targets and revenue targets and so on. That's what we will be doing when we get Infinera close and then arrange a Capital Market Day for this purpose.

但我再次知道，我們需要對此更加具體，並討論具體目標和收入目標等。這就是當我們與 Infinera 接近並為此目的安排資本市場日時我們將要做的事情。

Great. We're looking forward to that. And as a quick follow-up, could you talk about your outlook beyond the fourth quarter for the Indian market, particularly considering the Vodafone Idea award you also announced recently?

偉大的。我們對此很期待。作為快速跟進，您能否談談第四季度之後對印度市場的展望，特別是考慮到您最近還宣布了沃達豐創意獎？

Of course, happy to do that. Just as a quick reminder, in 2022, our Indian top line was about EUR1.3 billion. And then last year, we had significant growth to EUR2.8 billion because of the 5G rollout. We said already then, that last year was an exception, but we are building in a way a new normalized run rate that will be above what we had in 2022. And that's exactly what is happening.

當然，很樂意這麼做。順便提醒一下，2022 年，我們在印度的營收約為 13 億歐元。去年，由於 5G 的推出，我們的收入大幅成長至 28 億歐元。我們當時已經說過，去年是一個例外，但我們正在以某種方式建立一個新的標準化運行率，該運行率將高於 2022 年的水平。

We have been talking about this EUR1.5 billion to EUR2 billion. We are currently tracking closer towards the lower end of that scale. But nevertheless, we will be clearly above the ‘22 levels. And the good news is that we are expecting meaningful growth next year. Vodafone Idea obviously is a new deal for us.

我們一直在談論這個15億至20億歐元。我們目前正在接近該範圍的下限。但儘管如此，我們仍將明顯高於 22 歐元的水平。好消息是我們預計明年將出現有意義的成長。沃達豐創意對我們來說顯然是一項新交易。

And also, the investments of the two other leading operators in India this year have been significantly lower than last year. And there are reasons to believe that they would also start recovering. So clearly India will be one of our growth drivers next year.

此外，印度另外兩家領先業者今年的投資也明顯低於去年。並且有理由相信他們也會開始康復。顯然，印度將成為我們明年的成長動力之一。

Sami Sarkamies, Danske Bank.

薩米·薩卡米斯，丹麥銀行。

Yes, hi, thanks. I would like to continue on mobile networks. Your sales this year will be below EUR8 billion, including about EUR0.5 billion from AT&T. I guess you need to find about EUR2 billion of additional sales in order to reach your goals. Can you elaborate on how much of this is covered by the number of deals that you have announced during the third quarter, and when will these new deals start to be visible in your financials?

是的，嗨，謝謝。我想繼續使用行動網路。您今年的銷售額將低於 80 億歐元，其中包括 AT&T 的約 5 億歐元。我想您需要找到大約 20 億歐元的額外銷售額才能實現您的目標。您能否詳細說明其中有多少是您在第三季宣布的交易數量所涵蓋的，以及這些新交易何時開始在您的財務數據中可見？

Well, Sami, of course, as is typical to mobile networks deals, you sign a deal and then those revenues will start coming in gradually during the future quarters and years. So that is not something that when you sign a deal that then all of a sudden in the next quarter you have much revenue.

好吧，薩米，當然，正如行動網路交易的典型情況一樣，您簽署了一份協議，然後這些收入將在未來的季度和幾年中開始逐漸增加。因此，當您簽署協議時，下個季度您不會突然獲得大量收入。

I mean, they are taking us to the right direction, but obviously we need more deals than this, this is not yet enough. And there is now, as you know, a general expectation, including by the market analysts that the mobile networks market that declined significantly this year will start to recover next year. Let's see how quickly that comes, but the expectations are there.

我的意思是，他們正在帶領我們走向正確的方向，但顯然我們需要更多的交易，但這還不夠。如您所知，現在包括市場分析師在內的普遍預期是，今年大幅下滑的行動網路市場將於明年開始復甦。讓我們看看這一切來得有多快，但期望是存在的。

We have after the AT&T decision, which of course was a big negative to us, after that we have been winning much more than what we have lost. So in relative terms, in the new deals, we have kept increasing our market share ex-AT&T. So that is a promising sign.

我們在 AT&T 做出決定之後，這對我們來說當然是一個很大的負面影響，在那之後我們贏得的比我們失去的要多得多。因此，相對而言，在新交易中，我們不斷增加除 AT&T 之外的市場份額。所以這是一個有希望的跡象。

But again, the deals that we have signed in Q3 are not yet going to be enough. More will be needed. And then of course, very important is that in mobile networks, we continue to work on the non-CSP segments. Private wireless, where we are a market leader, we have almost 800 customers in that segment at the moment, fast growth.

但同樣，我們在第三季簽署的協議還不夠。還需要更多。當然，非常重要的是，在行動網路中，我們繼續致力於非 CSP 細分市場。私人無線領域我們是市場領導者，目前我們在該領域擁有近 800 家客戶，並且成長迅速。

And then a little bit more longer term, mid to long term, kind of second half of the 2020 story, increasingly important will be the defense industry where we have promising traction. We'll talk more about this at the upcoming Capital Markets Day.

然後，從更長遠的角度來看，中長期，也就是 2020 年故事的後半段，國防工業將變得越來越重要，我們在該領域有希望的牽引力。我們將在即將到來的資本市場日更多地討論這一點。

We are integrating the offering of Phoenix with Nokia's 5G platform. And of course, the reason why we are doing is that despite the fact that in the defense market, sales cycles are long, but once you are in, you are in and you are in for a long term.

我們正在將 Phoenix 的產品與諾基亞的 5G 平台整合。當然，我們這樣做的原因是，儘管在國防市場，銷售週期很長，但一旦進入，你就進入了，而且是長期的。

And of course, much importance over there is promising. So that's why we feel that strategically it is extremely important to get additional coverage for the EUR2 billion annual R&D investment that we are putting in in mobile networks. And part of the volume targets there obviously will increasingly be non-CSP segments, even though we do expect also the CSP market to somewhat recover next year.

當然，那裡的重要性是有希望的。因此，我們認為，從戰略上講，為我們在行動網路方面投入的每年 20 億歐元的研發投資獲得額外的覆蓋範圍極為重要。儘管我們確實預計 CSP 市場明年也會有所復甦，但顯然，非 CSP 細分市場的部分銷售目標將越來越多。

Did you have a follow-up, Sami?

薩米，你有後續嗎？

Maybe one on the cost savings program, you're still talking about EUR1 billion savings target, even though the recovery is happening much slower than anticipated. Why haven't you stepped up to EUR1.2 billion already?

也許在成本節約計畫方面，您仍在談論 10 億歐元的節省目標，儘管復甦的速度比預期慢得多。為什麼還沒有增加到 12 億歐元？

Yes, thank you, Sami. I must say that we are quite happy how fast we've been able to get actually traction and results on the cost saving programs. So as we said also, the run rate in cost savings is now EUR500 million and so far, this year and we definitely see that the pace of the program has been extremely satisfactory.

是的，謝謝你，薩米。我必須說，我們非常高興能夠以如此快的速度在成本節約計劃上取得實際進展並取得成果。正如我們所說，成本節約的運行率現在是 5 億歐元，今年到目前為止，我們肯定看到該計劃的進度非常令人滿意。

And if you look also number of employees, at the end of quarter three, we had 78,000 employees and this is down from 86,000 that we had when we announced the program. So very rapid development here. And as you remember, about 60% of the total cost saving program of EUR800 million to EUR1.2 billion is from mobile networks and then 30% in CNS and the remaining part from NI and corporate functions.

如果你也看看員工數量，在第三季末，我們有 78,000 名員工，這比我們宣布該計畫時的 86,000 名員工有所下降。所以這裡發展非常快。正如您所記得的那樣，在 8 億至 12 億歐元的總成本節省計劃中，大約 60% 來自行動網絡，30% 來自 CNS，其餘部分來自 NI 和企業職能部門。

And the target range that we have when it comes to the number of employees is 72,000 to 77,000. But of course, when after we have divested ASM, they have about 2,000 employees. So we will adjust the targets after we have closed the deal as well, accordingly.

我們的員工人數目標範圍是 72,000 至 77,000 人。當然，當我們剝離 ASM 後，他們大約有 2,000 名員工。因此，我們也會在交易完成後相應地調整目標。

But the main reason why we have an interval or range in the cost savings between EUR800 million to EUR1.2 billion is that we can fast change and adjust based on what we see on the market. And as I said, we have started extremely fast this program now.

但我們將成本節約定在 8 億歐元到 12 億歐元之間的主要原因是我們可以根據市場情況快速改變和調整。正如我所說，我們現在已經非常快速地啟動了這個計劃。

And maybe to add just one small but important thing to what Marco said, obviously, we are not quite even yet within the range, targeted range. We are getting very close to the upper end of that range. But we have always said that it will then ultimately, remember, this is an N ‘26 target and we have executed extremely fast now. And where we will ultimately end will depend very much on the pace of the market recovery.

也許在馬可所說的基礎上補充一件小但重要的事情，顯然，我們還沒有完全達到目標範圍內。我們已經非常接近該範圍的上限。但我們總是說最終會實現，記住，這是一個 N × 26 的目標，我們現在執行得非常快。我們最終的結局將在很大程度上取決於市場復甦的速度。

But so far, we have been executing extremely fast. And just as an additional proof point, we have today announced to the employee representatives an intention to reduce another 350 jobs in Europe. That is just one additional proof point as to that we are not yet done with this program.

但到目前為止，我們的執行速度非常快。作為另一個證據，我們今天向員工代表宣布打算在歐洲再減少 350 個工作機會。這只是我們尚未完成該計劃的另一個證據。

Artem Beletski, SEB.

阿爾喬姆·貝列茨基，SEB。

Yes, hi, and thank you for taking my question. So I would like to ask you about API strategy and progress on that front. Could you maybe talk about this topic? It has been more in focus recently, given a noise JV between Ericsson and some 12 global CSPs, and what do you think about this type of development?

是的，您好，感謝您提出我的問題。所以我想向您詢問 API 策略以及這方面的進展。您能談談這個話題嗎？鑑於愛立信與大約 12 家全球 CSP 之間的合資企業，這一問題最近更加受到關注，您對這種類型的發展有何看法？

Yes, thank you, Artem. This is obviously another extremely important question. And first of all, I have to say that I'm happy to see that joint venture announcement, because what it will do to the market is that in addition to the actions that we are taking, it will accelerate the API economy.

是的，謝謝你，阿爾喬姆。這顯然是另一個極為重要的問題。首先，我必須說，我很高興看到合資企業的公告，因為它將對市場產生的影響是，除了我們正在採取的行動之外，它將加速 API 經濟。

Because ultimately, why is this important? It will boost operators' ability to monetize their investment. And the faster that ecosystem develops and the better we are able to open up network capabilities and the network resources to application developers, the better for operators. And ultimately, that will support operator investments into the network.

因為歸根究底，為什麼這很重要？它將提高營運商將投資貨幣化的能力。生態系統發展得越快，我們就越能夠向應用開發者開放網路能力和網路資源，對營運商來說就越好。最終，這將支持營運商對網路的投資。

Now, we have, of course, taken a slightly different approach than our competitor. We have developed all of this organically. We came to a conclusion that we do not need to acquire a legacy best player to enter this market. We have developed this organically and with pretty good progress.

當然，現在我們採取了與競爭對手略有不同的方法。我們有機地開發了所有這些。我們得出的結論是，我們不需要收購傳統的最佳球員來進入這個市場。我們已經有機地開發了這個，並且取得了相當好的進展。

We announced this initiative a year ago, and we are currently having more than 20 partners across the ecosystem, including 16 CSPs, including names like British Telecom, Telefónica, Orange, Deutsche Telekom, and others. So we are able to offer extremely attractive base of networks to the developers who want to use our APIs. So overall, this is a good thing to the industry.

我們一年前宣布了這項舉措，目前整個生態系統擁有 20 多個合作夥伴，其中包括 16 個 CSP，其中包括英國電信、西班牙電信、Orange、德國電信等。因此，我們能夠為想要使用我們 API 的開發人員提供極具吸引力的網路基礎。所以整體來說，這對產業來說是一件好事。

Then another thing that is important to keep in mind. I mean, it will take quite a long time before revenues through APIs will be a meaningful business. We are talking multiple years. But what is in relative terms even more important right now from business perspective is what's happening in the core network itself. And that is something where I'm extremely pleased with the position that we have.

還有另一件事要記住。我的意思是，透過 API 獲得收入還需要相當長的時間才能成為一項有意義的業務。我們已經談了很多年了。但從商業角度來看，目前相對而言更重要的是核心網路本身正在發生的事情。這就是我對我們目前的地位感到非常滿意的地方。

We have taken the lead in the cloudification of the core network, i.e. moving the core network software to CNFs, cloud-native functions. We want to make the entire core network cloud-native. And why is this important? Because cloud-nativeness will ultimately enable efficient automation of the network functions. Without going fully cloud-native, you will not be able to do that in an efficient way.

我們率先進行核心網路雲化，即將核心網路軟體遷移到CNF，也就是雲端原生功能。我們想讓整個核心網雲原生。為什麼這很重要？因為雲端原生最終將實現網路功能的高效自動化。如果不完全實現雲端原生，您將無法有效地做到這一點。

So this is where we are leading at the moment. We are working with multiple customers with extremely good feedback. And once we are making the core network cloud-native, as I said, that enables automation. That enables operators to push down their operational costs. That will make it easier for them to launch new services.

這就是我們目前的領先地位。我們正在與多個客戶合作，並獲得了非常好的回饋。正如我所說，一旦我們將核心網路雲端原生化，就可以實現自動化。這使得營運商能夠降低營運成本。這將使他們更容易推出新服務。

And ultimately, full automation will be needed in order to be able to reap all the benefits from the API ecosystem as well. So that's why this is not only about introducing APIs. This is very much a comprehensive strategy as to what to do to the entire core network to make the resources available to the ecosystem.

最終，需要完全自動化才能從 API 生態系統中獲得所有好處。這就是為什麼這不僅僅是引入 API。這是一個非常全面的策略，涉及如何對整個核心網路進行操作，以使資源可供生態系統使用。

Thanks Artem, did you have a quick follow-up?

謝謝 Artem，您有快速跟進嗎？

Yes, a quick one on India's profitability, so how we should think about it has a picture change and not what comes to gross margin and the EBIT margin impacts, given the fact that it should be showing quite nice growth next year.

是的，這是關於印度盈利能力的快速介紹，因此我們應該如何看待它，而不是毛利率和息稅前利潤率的影響，因為明年應該會顯示出相當不錯的增長。

Thank you, Artem. As we've said earlier as well that different countries buy different things and based on what they buy the margins could vary and also how much they drive additional R&D. What comes to India, we are quite pleased with the margins we have in India and we haven't specified exactly what levels they are, but they have been developing well and in comparison, to other markets, they are in a decent level as well.

謝謝你，阿爾喬姆。正如我們之前所說，不同的國家購買不同的東西，根據他們購買的東西，利潤可能會有所不同，而且他們推動額外研發的程度也會有所不同。至於印度，我們對印度的利潤率感到非常滿意，我們還沒有具體說明它們的水平，但它們一直發展良好，與其他市場相比，它們也處於不錯的水平。

Daniel Djurberg, Handelsbanken.

丹尼爾‧朱伯格，德國商業銀行。

Thank you so much. I would like to ask a little bit on enterprise, the revenue represented 12% up from 10% of total revenues in Q3 and also up to 9% year over year. Still down 5% to the last nine months. Can you talk a little bit on what you see in terms of book-to-bill for enterprise and if you should expect this renewed momentum to stay on for a while and also if you can comment a little bit on the profitability level seen in enterprise. Thanks.

太感謝了。我想問企業方面，營收佔總營收的比例從第三季的10%上升到12%，年比也上升到9%。較過去 9 個月仍下降 5%。您能否談談您在企業訂單到帳單方面所看到的情況，以及您是否應該期望這種新的勢頭會持續一段時間，以及您是否可以對企業中看到的盈利水平發表一些評論。謝謝。

I mean on a full year level this year, obviously because of the weak first half of the year, it's clear that our enterprise top line ambitions -- our results will not meet our ambition. The good thing is that the momentum is turning here as well. We have good progress in both orders and the fact that we had 11% growth in the non-CSP segments in this quarter, which is much better than what we had in the beginning of the year, is encouraging.

我的意思是，從今年全年的水平來看，顯然由於上半年的疲軟，很明顯我們的企業營收目標——我們的業績將無法滿足我們的目標。好消息是，這裡的勢頭也正在轉變。我們在這兩個訂單方面都取得了良好的進展，而且本季度我們在非 CSP 領域實現了 11% 的增長，這比年初的情況要好得多，這一事實令人鼓舞。

Pipeline is promising and again I was talking about data centers earlier, then we will have the upcoming closing of the Infinera acquisition which will give us a significant boost to the non-CSP businesses as well. So overall in relative terms this year enterprise or non-CSP businesses will be performing much better topline wise than the service provider business but in absolute terms what we will be achieving this year we are not happy with and we of course expect an acceleration next year also in enterprise and the pipeline that we have is clearly supporting that.

Pipeline 前景廣闊，我之前也談到了資料中心，然後我們即將完成對 Infinera 的收購，這也將為我們的非 CSP 業務帶來重大推動。因此，總體而言，今年企業或非 CSP 業務的營收表現將比服務提供者業務好得多，但從絕對值來看，我們對今年實現的目標並不滿意，我們當然預計明年會加速同樣在企業領域，我們擁有的管道顯然也支持這一點。

And just the building on what Pekka said, remember also that this is a little bit lumpy business also based on when we sign larger deals with webscalers and that's why it goes up and down a little bit, that's why the trend is extremely important to follow here.

只是以Pekka 所說的為基礎，還要記住，這是一個有點不穩定的業務，也是基於我們何時與網絡擴展商簽署更大的交易，這就是為什麼它會上下波動，這就是為什麼跟隨趨勢非常重要這裡。

Perfect. May I have a follow-up? And that would be a little bit done if you can give a lesson learned on your new organization that you implemented and disclosed for some 10 to 12 months ago, a bit more siloed and so on. And also if you see any pros and cons, if you should do for example an [XSE] or an IPO with mobile networks and give it to the shareholders because then you can run, okay, with net depth while mobile network with a net cash.

完美的。我可以跟進嗎？如果您能提供有關您在 10 到 12 個月前實施和披露的新組織的經驗教訓，那就有點完成了，有點孤立等等。而且，如果您看到任何優點和缺點，例如您應該進行 [XSE] 或行動網路的 IPO 並將其交給股東，因為這樣您就可以以淨深度運行，而行動網路則以淨現金運行。

Well, that second question is not something that I will start commenting. That's of course a massive strategy question for the whole company. We have said multiple times that we are fully committed to mobile networks and we see a lot of opportunities there. The operational model is clearly taking us to the right direction.

好吧，我不會開始評論第二個問題。對整個公司來說，這當然是一個重大的策略問題。我們已經多次說過，我們完全致力於行動網絡，我們看到了那裡有很多機會。營運模式顯然正在引領我們走向正確的方向。

In any model, there are pros and cons. In our model, we are giving the businesses more freedom than before to do independent maneuvers, including in the customer interface and that is increasing the speed and agility and that is increasing their ability to go after new customer segments such as defense and data centers, et cetera.

任何模型都有優點和缺點。在我們的模型中，我們為企業提供了比以前更多的自由度來進行獨立的操作，包括在客戶介面中，這提高了速度和敏捷性，並提高了他們追求國防和資料中心等新客戶群的能力，等等​​。

When they do not need to negotiate about sales resources, they can make basically their own decisions on sales resources and sales incentives and sales priorities and that is showing good result. Again our issue this year has not been that we would not have momentum in pipeline creation or in order intake, the real issue in relation with the market.

當他們不需要就銷售資源進行談判時，他們基本上可以自行決定銷售資源、銷售激勵和銷售優先級，這顯示出良好的效果。同樣，我們今年的問題並不是我們在管道創建或訂單接收方面沒有動力，而是與市場相關的真正問題。

The real issue and the top line challenge that we have that is general market weakness that hopefully is now finally starting to turn. Any model has also then downsides that you need to mitigate and obviously the risk to be siloed in the customer interface is something that you have to mitigate. We are doing that well.

我們面臨的真正問題和首要挑戰是市場普遍疲軟，希望現在終於開始扭轉。任何模型都有您需要減輕的缺點，顯然，您必須減輕客戶介面中孤立的風險。我們在這方面做得很好。

We have for each key customer we have an account executive team which is responsible for the overall relationship management with the customer and those teams are also then coordinating all cross business matters to the extent they exist in the customer. So we are taking care of both relationship management, multi-business deals with the customers.

對於每個關鍵客戶，我們都有一個客戶執行團隊，負責與客戶的整體關係管理，這些團隊也協調客戶中存在的所有跨業務事務。因此，我們既負責關係管理，也負責與客戶的多業務交易。

And then very importantly, we have several solutions on the market where there are components from multiple businesses. And a very important part of the model is that every time when there is a multi-business solution, there is always a lead business that owns the solutions engineering and also takes the lead in sales.

非常重要的是，我們在市場上有多種解決方案，其中包含來自多個企業的元件。這個模型的一個非常重要的部分是，每次出現多業務解決方案時，總會有一個領先的業務擁有解決方案工程，並且在銷售方面也處於領先地位。

So I'm pleased with the progress with the new model. And again, every model has its pros and cons. But I believe that the pros of this model clearly outweigh its cons.

所以我對新模型的進展感到滿意。再說一遍，每種模型都有其優點和缺點。但我相信這種模式的優點顯然大於缺點。

And remember, we started the new operational model already in 2021. And we have seen very clearly that speed, agility, and accountability are definitely giving the results that we expected.

請記住，我們已經在 2021 年開始了新的營運模式。

Jakob Bluestone, Exane BNP Paribas.

雅各布·布魯斯通 (Jakob Bluestone)，法國巴黎銀行 Exane。

Thanks for taking the question. So just getting back to network infrastructure, if you can maybe just expand a little bit on where is the area that sort of continues to disappoint? I think if I read between the lines, it sounds like it's optical, which continues to undershoot.

感謝您提出問題。那麼回到網路基礎架構上來，您是否可以稍微擴展一下仍然令人失望的領域在哪裡？我想，如果我從字裡行間看出，它聽起來像是光學的，而且仍然低於預期。

And then maybe also linked to that, if you can just expand a little bit on the North American strength, is that just coming from [BID], or would you say it's kind of more broad-based in terms of the recovery there? Thanks.

然後也許也與此相關，如果你能稍微擴大一下北美的實力，這只是來自[BID]，還是你會說它在那裡的復甦方面具有更廣泛的基礎？謝謝。

I mean, the good news is that the strength we are now seeing in North America is there even though there is very little or almost nothing from BID yet in those numbers. So BID will be an upside opportunity to what we are already seeing. BID is coming. Everybody knows that it's coming more slowly than people were hoping a year or two years ago.

我的意思是，好消息是，我們現在在北美看到的實力仍然存在，儘管這些數字中 BID 的貢獻很少或幾乎沒有。因此，與我們已經看到的情況相比，出價將是一個上行機會。投標來了。每個人都知道，它的到來比人們一兩年前所希望的要慢。

The US administration is acknowledging it. They have been slow in the allocation of the funds. But now the good news is that it is happening. I think the number of states that have opened a grant window is now six. All states have this so-called volume one approved. Most states have also volume two approved.

美國政府正在承認這一點。他們在資金分配方面進展緩慢。但現在好消息是它正在發生。我認為目前已開放撥款窗口的州數量為六個。所有州都批准了所謂的第一卷。大多數州也批准了第二卷。

And then the next step is that they open the grant windows. And as I said, six windows have done it. And it currently seems, in case you are interested in details, is that Louisiana will be the state that will be first moving to really releasing the funds. And once the funds get released, that's when then there is an opportunity for us to convert that into order intake.

下一步是他們打開撥款窗口。正如我所說，六個視窗已經做到了這一點。如果您對細節感興趣的話，目前看來路易斯安那州將是第一個真正釋放資金的州。一旦資金釋放，我們就有機會將其轉化為訂單量。

And we believe that we start seeing some of that in Q4 and most likely some initial small deliveries already in Q4. But then very much this will be a story of ‘25 and ‘26, and it will start providing upside on top of what we are seeing. But I mean, your observation was absolutely correct. Inside NI, optical is weaker.

我們相信，我們將在第四季度開始看到其中的一些情況，並且很可能已經在第四季度開始進行一些初步的小規模交付。但很大程度上，這將是一個 25 美元和 26 美元的故事，除了我們所看到的之外，它將開始提供上行空間。但我的意思是，你的觀察是絕對正確的。在NI內部，光學較弱。

One reason is that we are weaker in optical in North America. And this is exactly where then the Infinera Acquisition will come in because they are strong in optical North America. And that's when we then finally expect also us to be able to reap all the benefits of the North American recovery, which we are currently seeing more on the IP and fixed side.

原因之一是我們在北美的光學領域比較弱。這正是英飛朗收購的切入點，因為他們在北美光學領域實力雄厚。那時我們最終也希望能夠獲得北美復甦的所有好處，目前我們在 IP 和固定方面看到了更多的好處。

Did you have a follow-up, Jacob?

雅各布，你有後續嗎？

Yes, if I can just follow up on an earlier point. I mean, you've talked a bit about the growth in non-CSP enterprise. You talked about the CoreWeave contract and sort of the shift more into data centers. I'd just be interested in understanding how does the profitability look in the non-CSP segment versus your more sort of traditional business. So is this accretive or dilutive to your margins that you are kind of making it tilt?

是的，如果我能跟進之前的觀點的話。我的意思是，您已經談到了非 CSP 企業的成長。您談到了 CoreWeave 合約以及更多向資料中心的轉變。我只是有興趣了解非 CSP 細分市場與傳統業務相比的獲利能力如何。那麼，這會增加還是稀釋你的利潤，導致你的利潤傾斜呢？

A lot will of course ultimately depend on the volumes achieved, but absolutely as an additional business opportunity, it will be driving our operating profit and also our operating margin. That's absolutely our goal. Then it's too early to comment now in case there are a lot of single deals that how the gross margin of each deal would look like.

當然，很大程度上最終取決於所實現的銷量，但絕對作為一個額外的商業機會，它將推動我們的營業利潤和營業利潤率。這絕對是我們的目標。那麼現在評論還為時過早，以防有很多單筆交易，每筆交易的毛利率會是什麼樣子。

But when you look at the data center market in general, maybe one thing to look at this is the current leading vendors to that market and what type of profitability they have. And you will see that in general, in NI segments, the non-service provider, non-telco segments are offering to vendors much better profit opportunities than the telco market.

但是，當您總體觀察資料中心市場時，也許需要關注的一件事是該市場當前的領先供應商以及他們擁有何種類型的獲利能力。您會發現，總的來說，在 NI 細分市場中，非服務供應商、非電信細分市場為供應商提供了比電信市場更好的利潤機會。

Sebastien Sztabowicz, Kepler Chevreux.

塞巴斯蒂安·薩塔博維奇，開普勒·雪佛勒。

Yes, hello everyone, and thanks for taking my question. On the AT&T 5G contract, you had already a negative back in Q3, and if I remember well, you were more forecasting, more downside moving into 2025. Could you help us understand a little bit the dynamic of the AT&T 5G contract on done in the coming quarters? Should we expect a bigger step back, step down in 2025?

是的，大家好，感謝您提出我的問題。關於AT&T 5G 合同，您在第三季度就已經出現了負面影響，如果我沒記錯的話，您的預測更多，進入2025 年的下行空間更大。動態未來幾季？我們是否應該期待 2025 年會有更大的退一步、下台？

Yes, thank you. Yes, you're correct, just like you mentioned, we've seen the impact of AT&T, and if you look at how we see the AT&T in contract development going forward, we've said that this year, thanks to the accelerated revenue recognition that we did in quarter two, we will be about the same level that we were in last year. And this EUR150 million acceleration came from basically next year, and that's why we're also saying that next year's volumes will be about half of this year's volumes towards the AT&T.

是的，謝謝。是的，你是對的，就像你提到的，我們已經看到了AT&T 的影響，如果你看看我們如何看待AT&T 在合約開發方面的發展，我們已經說過，今年，得益於收入的加速成長認識到我們在第二季度所做的事情，我們將與去年的水平大致相同。這 1.5 億歐元的加速基本上來自明年，這就是為什麼我們還說明年的銷售量將約為今年 AT&T 銷售的一半。

Did you have a follow-up?

你有後續行動嗎？

Yes, a follow-up on the CNS and the 5G core. You mentioned excellent momentum on the 5G core, outage traction and so on, but the CNS division is still a flat-ish, like for like in Q3, could you explain a little bit the dynamic behind CNS today, what is driving the business not to grow despite the free traction on 5G core? Thank you.

是的，CNS和5G核心的後續。您提到了 5G 核心的良好勢頭、停電牽引力等，但 CNS 部門仍然表現平平，就像第三季度一樣，您能否解釋一下今天 CNS 背後的動態，是什麼推動了業務發展？ 儘管有5G 核心的免費牽引力，仍能成長？謝謝。

Yes, thank you. The reason is actually very simple. There are legacy segments inside CNS where the market is declining significantly. For example, 3G core, where we were a big player, that has been a significant component in CNS, and that is rapidly declining.

是的，謝謝。原因其實很簡單。 CNS 內部有一些傳統細分市場，其市場正在大幅下滑。例如，我們曾經是 3G 核心領域的重要參與者，它一直是 CNS 的重要組成部分，但正在迅速下降。

Then there is a number of other legacy applications that are declining as well. But the strategic growth segments in CNS, including 5G core, and including Compass Wireless and Edge Compute Solutions, they are all growing heavily and with a very healthy rate. So that is the kind of challenge in CNS that when we then create the overall CNS result, it's a combination of these legacy segments and strategy segments.

還有許多其他遺留應用程式也在下降。但 CNS 的策略性成長領域，包括 5G 核心、Compass 無線和邊緣運算解決方案，都在以非常健康的速度強勁成長。這就是 CNS 中的挑戰，當我們創建整體 CNS 結果時，它是這些遺留部分和策略部分的組合。

And we will be looking in the future to opening this up a little bit more so that you can see that's where the growth is actually coming from. But clearly 5G core is growing at the moment.

未來我們將尋求更多地開放這一點，以便您可以看到成長的實際來源。但顯然 5G 核心目前正在成長。

Rob Sanders, Deutsche Bank.

羅布桑德斯，德意志銀行。

Yes, hi. And I just had a question on the mobile networks business. And Ericsson seems to be delivering with AT&T quite significant cost and CapEx savings that they are now using as a reference design to other operators, including outside the US. And that's obviously with a single vendor approach.

是的，嗨。我剛剛有一個關於行動網路業務的問題。愛立信似乎與 AT&T 一起實現了相當可觀的成本和資本支出節省，他們現在將其用作其他運營商（包括美國以外的運營商）的參考設計。這顯然是採用單一供應商方法。

I was just wondering like, are you working on similar types of reference designs? And do you have reference designs that you can go and demonstrate similar kind of TCO savings like they are doing right now? Thank you.

我只是想知道，您是否正在研究類似類型的參考設計？您是否有參考設計可以用來展示類似的 TCO 節省，就像他們現在正在做的那樣？謝謝。

Absolutely, we have such reference designs and actually a significant, not the only, but an important part of that is what I was earlier talking about, the qualification of the core network, which is a significant part of improving operators' TCO and overall efficiency.

當然，我們有這樣的參考設計，實際上其中一個重要的部分，不是唯一的，而是一個重要的部分，就是我剛才講的，核心網的資質，這是提高運營商TCO和整體效率的重要部分。

And of course, we are tying then the whole mobile ecosystem into that thinking. What I should say though is that even though we also have some customers where we are the only vendor at the moment, we are currently not seeing that going with a single vendor would in any way be becoming a new trend with operators.

當然，我們正在將整個行動生態系統與這種想法聯繫起來。但我應該說的是，儘管我們也有一些客戶目前我們是唯一的供應商，但我們目前並沒有看到與單一供應商合作會以任何方式成為營運商的新趨勢。

On the contrary, most of the recent deals, if not all of the recent deals that we have seen in the future have confirmed that operators want to stick with, typically with two vendors. We have a couple of cases where we have been able to defend our 100% market share successfully but again these cases where there is only one vendor seem to be more of an exception than a rule and I believe that everything we are seeing currently is pointing to the direction that's how it will remain.

相反，大多數最近的交易（如果不是我們未來看到的所有最近交易）都證實了運營商希望堅持下去，通常是與兩家供應商合作。我們有幾個案例，我們能夠成功捍衛我們 100% 的市場份額，但這些只有一個供應商的案例似乎更多的是例外，而不是規則，我相信我們目前看到的一切都表明了這一點朝著它將保持的方向。

Did you have a follow-up?

你有後續行動嗎？

Yes, just a quick follow-up, just on network infrastructure, you've had positive book-to-bill I think for three or four quarters now and yet your Q4 sales guide has come down. Is the turn business an issue? Is that because of distributor stock? Is there any particular reason why your backlog duration seems to keep on going up but your turns business seems to keep on disappointing and when does that sort of become less of an issue? Thanks.

是的，只是在網路基礎設施方面進行快速跟進，我認為您的訂單出貨量已經持續了三到四個季度，但您的第四季度銷售指南卻下降了。輪調業務有問題嗎？是因為經銷商庫存嗎？是否有任何特殊原因導致您的積壓持續時間似乎不斷增加，但您的輪班業務似乎一直令人失望，這種問題什麼時候變得不那麼重要？謝謝。

Yes, thank you. As we said that the recovery is slower than we expected and it takes a longer time now for our customers to convert those orders into sales so they don't issue the purchase orders in as fast pace as perhaps we and they thought in the beginning and just like you mentioned as well we have had to book-to-bill above one four quarters in a row now and order intake has been increasing four quarters in a row as well in NI.

是的，謝謝。正如我們所說，復甦速度比我們預期的要慢，而且我們的客戶現在需要更長的時間才能將這些訂單轉化為銷售，因此他們不會像我們和他們一開始所想的那樣快地發出採購訂單，就像您也提到的那樣，我們現在必須連續四個季度按訂單發貨，並且北愛爾蘭的訂單量也連續四個季度增加。

So we definitely see that the market is strengthening but still due to macroeconomic uncertainties there, our customers are very careful and they just are very slow on issuing those purchase orders but this gives a good platform for going forward as well for the next year.

因此，我們確實看到市場正在走強，但仍然由於宏觀經濟的不確定性，我們的客戶非常謹慎，他們只是在發出這些採購訂單方面非常緩慢，但這也為明年的發展提供了良好的平台。

And also, I mean just to be clear even though we are not going to start publishing our order intake or order backlog numbers but the NI order backlog at the moment is clearly on a higher level than it was a year ago.

而且，我的意思是要澄清，儘管我們不會開始發布我們的訂單量或訂單積壓數量，但目前 NI 訂單積壓量顯然比一年前更高。

Alex Duval, Goldman Sachs.

亞歷克斯·杜瓦爾，高盛。

Yes, thank you very much for squeezing me in here. Just a question on the one-offs. I think you said to an earlier caller that this didn't benefit gross margin. It looks like this might be sitting in other income and expenses. Could you just quantify how much the EBIT benefit is from that?

是的，非常感謝你把我擠在這裡。只是一個關於一次性的問題。我想您對之前的來電者說過，這對毛利率沒有好處。看來這可能屬於其他收入和支出。您能否量化一下由此產生的息稅前利潤有多少？

And then secondly, you talk about rightsizing the cost base so as to be able to hit double-digit operating margins on a lower revenue level of $9.5 billion. Just wondered to what extent that's a function of a worse outlook for next year for your addressable markets.

其次，您談到了調整成本基礎，以便能夠在 95 億美元的較低收入水準上實現兩位數的營業利潤率。只是想知道這在多大程度上是您的目標市場明年前景惡化的結果。

Clearly, last time there was a big cost change that was then followed by a downtick in the market. So just curious how you're thinking about the outlook for next year, given we're nearly in November. Really appreciate any color. Many thanks.

顯然，上次成本發生了巨大變化，隨後市場下跌。考慮到已經快到 11 月了，我只是好奇您如何看待明年的前景。真的很欣賞任何顏色。非常感謝。

If I take that second part, and Marco takes the first part. So you should not connect that to next year's outlook. I mean, that's our own preparedness, that's how we are resetting the cost base. And we just wanted to say that we have made even more progress than we originally targeted on the cost base reset.

如果我拿第二部分，馬可就拿第一部分。所以你不應該將其與明年的展望聯繫起來。我的意思是，這就是我們自己的準備，這就是我們重置成本基礎的方式。我們只是想說，我們在成本基礎重置方面取得了比最初目標更大的進展。

And we are now targeting to create a cost base for mobile networks that would be able to deliver double-digit profitability at $9.5 billion topline instead of the earlier targeted $10 billion. This has nothing to do with next year's outlook, and as I said, there is a general expectation that after this really, really weak market in mobile networks in 2024, we would see a market recovery next year.

我們現在的目標是為行動網路創建一個成本基礎，使其能夠以 95 億美元的收入實現兩位數的盈利，而不是先前目標的 100 億美元。這與明年的前景無關，正如我所說，人們普遍預計，在 2024 年行動網路市場非常非常疲軟之後，我們明年將看到市場復甦。

Yes, and that is also if you look at the third party analyst firms, they in their figures, they show growth for next year in mobile networks markets. And what comes to the reversal of the trade receivables, as we said earlier as well, very clear that it's not impacting gross profit or gross margins. This is poked in other operating income and expenses. And you can see also, we haven't specified the level.

是的，如果你看看第三方分析公司，他們的數據顯示，明年行動網路市場將會成長。正如我們之前所說，貿易應收帳款的轉回非常明顯，它不會影響毛利或毛利率。這計入其他營業收入和支出。您也可以看到，我們沒有指定等級。

Of course, we have other items in the other operating income and expenses as well. But you can see both at group level, but also in a mobile networks level, that there's a positive other operating income in quarter three. And this is, of course, the same thing when we book an expected customer loss. We book that in other operating income expense as well.

當然，我們在其他營業收入和支出中還有其他項目。但您可以看到，無論是在集團層面還是在行動網路層面，第三季都有積極的其他營業收入。當然，這與我們預訂預期客戶流失時的情況是一樣的。我們也將其計入其他營業收入費用。

Thanks Alex. Ladies and gentlemen this concludes today's call. I'd like to remind you that during the call we've made a number of forward looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may therefore differ materially from the results currently expected. Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the risk factor section of our Annual Report and Form 20-F which is available on our Investor Relations website.

謝謝亞歷克斯。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我想提醒您，在電話會議期間，我們做了一些涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性聲明。因此，實際結果可能與目前預期的結果有重大差異。可能導致這種差異的因素既可以是外部因素，也可以是內部營運因素。我們已在年度報告和 20-F 表格的風險因素部分中識別出此類風險，該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上取得。

Thank you. The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。