諾基亞 (NOK) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

早安，女士們，先生們。

Welcome to Nokia's second-quarter 2024 results goal.

歡迎來到Nokia 2024 年第二季業績目標。

I'm David Mulholland, head of Nokia Investor Relations.

我是諾基亞投資者關係部主管大衛‧穆赫蘭。

Today with me is Pekka Lundmark, our President and CEO, along with Marco Wirén, our CFO.

今天與我在一起的是我們的總裁兼執行長 Pekka Lundmark 以及我們的財務長 Marco Wirén。

Before we get started, a quick disclaimer.

在我們開始之前，先簡單聲明一下。

During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business, proposed transactions and financial performance.

在本次電話會議中，我們將就我們的未來業務、擬議交易和財務業績做出前瞻性陳述。

And these statements are predictions that involve risks and uncertainties.

這些陳述是涉及風險和不確定性的預測。

Actual results may therefore differ materially from the results we currently expect.

因此，實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果有重大差異。

Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors.

可能導致這種差異的因素既可以是外部因素，也可以是內部營運因素。

We have identified such risks in the risk factor section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

我們已在 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分中識別出此類風險，該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上取得。

Within today's presentation, references to growth rates will mostly be on a constant currency basis and margins will be based on our comparable reporting.

在今天的演示中，對成長率的提及將主要以固定貨幣為基礎，而利潤率將基於我們的可比較報告。

Please note that our Q2 report and the presentation that accompanies this call are published on our website.

請注意，我們的第二季報告和本次電話會議附帶的簡報已發佈在我們的網站上。

The report includes both reported and comparable financial results and reconciliation between the two.

該報告包括報告的和可比較的財務結果以及兩者之間的調節表。

In terms of today's agenda for today, Pekka will go through some of the key messages from the quarter.

就今天的議程而言，佩卡將回顧本季的一些關鍵訊息。

Marco will give you a deeper dive on the financial performance, and then Pekka will make a few comments on a couple of particular highlights from Q2, and then we'll move to Q&A.

Marco 將為您更深入地介紹財務業績，然後 Pekka 將對第二季的幾個特別亮點發表一些評論，然後我們將進入問答環節。

With that, let me hand over to Pekka.

那麼，就讓我把任務交給佩卡吧。

Thanks, David, and thank you for all dialing in today.

謝謝大衛，也謝謝大家今天撥電話。

Before we discuss Q2, I'd like to give a quick reminder of some important announcements we made recently.

在我們討論第二季之前，我想快速提醒一下我們最近發布的一些重要公告。

We, of course, announced the planned divestment of our submarine networks business to the French state and also our intention to acquire Infinera, a North American optical networking company.

當然，我們宣布了計劃將我們的海底網路業務剝離給法國政府，並打算收購北美光網路公司 Infinera。

The Infinera acquisition will significantly increase the scale and profitability of our optical networks business.

收購英飛朗將顯著提高我們光網絡業務的規模和獲利能力。

It will enable us to deliver faster innovation for customers and expand our position with web scale and regionally in North America.

它將使我們能夠為客戶提供更快的創新，並擴大我們在網路規模和北美地區的地位。

These transactions will focus and strengthen our network infrastructure business with its future built on three market-leading units, six networks, IP networks, and optical networks.

這些交易將集中並加強我們的網路基礎設施業務，其未來將建立在三個市場領先的部門、六個網路、IP 網路和光纖網路的基礎上。

Moving on to our second-quarter performance, Marco will go into more detail, but the headlines are that the market remained weak during the quarter.

談到我們第二季的業績，Marco 將詳細介紹，但頭條新聞是本季市場仍然疲軟。

We saw an 18% decline in our top line year-on-year, but it should be noted that three quarters of that decline was driven by India, with Q2 last year marking the peak of their 5G deployment.

我們的營收年減了 18%，但值得注意的是，其中四分之三的下降是由印度推動的，去年第二季標誌著其 5G 部署的頂峰。

We were pleased to see order intake trends continuing to improve in Q2, with the book to be level one and orders growing year on year.

我們很高興看到第二季的訂單量趨勢持續改善，書籍達到一級，訂單逐年增長。

Again, this strength was most notable in network infrastructure and supports our expectation of a significant improvement in net sales in the second half of 2024.

同樣，這種優勢在網路基礎設施方面最為顯著，並支持我們對 2024 年下半年淨銷售額大幅改善的預期。

We also continue to have good deal traction across the business groups.

我們的業務集團也持續擁有良好的交易吸引力。

We won some important deals in NI in the quarter, especially (technical difficulty) for mobile networks, we won some completely new customers such as MEO in Portugal and also expanded our share at many existing customers.

本季我們贏得了NI的一些重要交易，特別是行動網路（技術難度），我們贏得了一些全新的客戶，例如葡萄牙的MEO，並且還擴大了我們在許多現有客戶中的份額。

In addition, and I'll touch on this later, cloud and network services is also making good progress on winning core network deals and with our network as core platform.

另外，稍後我會談到這一點，雲端和網路服務在贏得核心網路交易以及以我們的網路為核心平台方面也取得了良好的進展。

Regarding our cost savings program, we've been taking quick action under the program that we announced in October.

關於我們的成本節約計劃，我們一直在根據 10 月宣布的計劃採取快速行動。

We have so far actioned EUR400 million of run rate savings over the targeted EUR800 million to EUR1.2 billion in gross savings by 2026.

到目前為止，我們已實現了 4 億歐元的運行率節省，目標是到 2026 年實現總節省 8 億歐元至 12 億歐元。

We had another strong quarter of free cash flow with approximately EUR400 million in Q2.

第二季我們的自由現金流又強勁，約 4 億歐元。

And finally, our full-year outlook is unchanged, and we are currently tracking towards the midpoint or slightly below the midpoint of our comparable operating profit guidance of EUR2.3 billion to EUR2.9 billion.

最後，我們的全年展望保持不變，目前我們正朝著 23 億歐元至 29 億歐元的可比營業利潤指引的中點或略低於中點的方向前進。

And regarding our free cash flow guidance of 30% to 60% conversion, we are tracking towards the higher end of that range.

關於我們 30% 至 60% 轉換的自由現金流指導，我們正在朝著該範圍的高端進行追蹤。

With that, let me hand over to Marco, who will go into the financials in more detail.

接下來，讓我把時間交給 Marco，他將更詳細地介紹財務狀況。

Thank you, Pekka, and good morning, everyone, and welcome from my side as well.

謝謝佩卡，大家早安，我這邊也歡迎您。

Before I get into numbers, let me make one important comment.

在討論數字之前，讓我先發表一項重要評論。

Considering the planned sale of Alcatel Submarine Networks, the business is now reported under discontinued operations and is no longer seen in our network infrastructure unit figures.

考慮到阿爾卡特海底網路的出售計劃，該業務現已報告為已停止運營，並且不再出現在我們的網路基礎設施部門數據中。

As Pekka mentioned, the environment remained challenging.

正如佩卡所提到的，環境仍然充滿挑戰。

And in quarter two '24, we saw a sales decline of 18% compared to year ago quarter.

2024 年第二季度，我們的銷售額與去年同期相比下降了 18%。

India was really the main driver here.

印度確實是這裡的主要動力。

But pleasingly, we returned to modest growth in North America.

但令人高興的是，我們在北美恢復了溫和成長。

Gross margin increased by 450 basis points mainly driven by mobile networks improvement, in part due to the EUR150 million of accelerated revenue recognition related to the AT&T contract resolution.

毛利率成長 450 個基點，主要得益於行動網路的改善，部分原因是與 AT&T 合約解決相關的 1.5 億歐元加速收入確認。

Our operating margin at 9.5% was 190 basis points below the prior year.

我們的營業利益率為 9.5%，比前一年低 190 個基點。

This also benefited from the accelerated revenue recognition.

這也得益於收入確認的加速。

However, the decrease in top line negatively impacted the operating profit.

然而，收入的下降對營業利潤產生了負面影響。

Then, network infrastructure.

然後是網路基礎設施。

Sales declined by 11% with declines across all three business lines, but we did see a sequential improvement from quarter one.

銷售額下降了 11%，所有三條業務線均出現下降，但我們確實看到較第一季有所改善。

The net sales decline also impacted our operating margin in the quarter, along with somewhat higher indirect cost of sales.

淨銷售額下降也影響了我們本季的營業利潤率，同時間接銷售成本上升。

Importantly, as we mentioned before, we saw a continuation of the improving order intake trends which support our view of a significant improvement in net sales growth in the second half.

重要的是，正如我們之前提到的，我們看到訂單量趨勢持續改善，這支持了我們對下半年淨銷售額成長顯著改善的看法。

On the basis of our current view of the market and the pace of demand recovery, we have revised our net sales planning assumption down from our prior plus 2% to 8% growth to now minus 2% to plus 3%.

根據我們目前對市場的看法和需求復甦的步伐，我們已將淨銷售計劃假設從之前的正2%至8%的增長下調至目前的負2%至正3%。

Our operating margin assumption is 11.5% to 14.5%.

我們的營業利潤率假設為 11.5% 至 14.5%。

And in full transparency, the removal of ASN from NI would have improved profitability by 100 to 150 basis points and the underlying reduction in our margin assumption is due to the slower market recovery.

在完全透明的情況下，從 NI 中刪除 ASN 將使獲利能力提高 100 至 150 個基點，而我們利潤率假設的根本減少是由於市場復甦速度較慢。

Turning to mobile networks.

轉向行動網路。

In mobile networks, net sales decline was mainly driven by the decrease in India, reflecting the fact that quarter two in 2023 represented the peak of the India 5G deployments.

在行動網路方面，淨銷售額下降主要是由印度的下降推動的，反映出2023年第二季是印度5G部署的高峰。

Positively, on a sequential basis, all regions increased compared with quarter one.

積極的一面是，從環比來看，所有地區均較第一季有所成長。

And Nokia also resolved its outstanding negotiation with AT&T in relation to our existing RAN contracts and ensuring we maintain the values originally agreed in the contract.

諾基亞也解決了與 AT&T 就我們現有 RAN 合約進行的懸而未決的談判，並確保我們維持合約中最初商定的價值。

Part of this resolution led to this EUR150 million of accelerated revenue recognition, which benefited both net sales and operating profit in the quarter.

該決議的一部分導致了 1.5 億歐元的收入加速確認，這有利於本季的淨銷售額和營業利潤。

Based on current commitments, we expect mobile networks net sales to AT&T to remain largely stable year on year in 2024 and then approximately half in 2025.

根據目前的承諾，我們預計 2024 年 AT&T 的行動網路淨銷售額將比去年同期基本保持穩定，然後到 2025 年約為一半。

Of course, we will continue to look to win new opportunities with AT&T that can improve this trajectory in mobile networks.

當然，我們將繼續尋求與 AT&T 合作贏得新的機會，以改善行動網路的發展軌跡。

And as you know, AT&T is a very important customer to overall Nokia.

如您所知，AT&T 對於整個諾基亞來說是一個非常重要的客戶。

As a result of the market evolution and what we have seen thus far in the first half, we have changed our net sales planning assumption from a 10% to 15% decline to now a 14% to 19% decline.

由於市場的演變以及我們在上半年所看到的情況，我們已將淨銷售額計劃假設從下降 10% 至 15% 更改為現在的下降 14% 至 19%。

However, we have increased the operating margin assumption from 1% to 4% to now 4% to 7% as we continue to take quick action on cost.

然而，隨著我們繼續對成本採取快速行動，我們已將營業利潤率假設從 1% 至 4% 提高到現在的 4% 至 7%。

And then moving to cloud and network services.

然後轉向雲端和網路服務。

The business declined 16% year on year as it continued to be impacted by the challenging environment.

由於持續受到充滿挑戰的環境的影響，該業務年減16%。

Additionally, the disposal of the device management and service management platform business had a 3 percentage point negative impact on the net sales in the quarter.

此外，出售設備管理和服務管理平台業務對本季淨銷售額產生了3個百分點的負面影響。

Both gross and operating profits were also impacted by lower net sales.

毛利潤和營業利潤也受到淨銷售額下降的影響。

And given the market conditions, we have also adjusted our net sales assumptions for cloud and network services to minus 5% to 0% from previous minus 2% to plus 3%, although we left our operating margin assumption unchanged at 6% to 9%.

考慮到市場狀況，我們也將雲端和網路服務的淨銷售額假設從先前的負2%調整為負5%到0%，儘管我們將營業利潤率假設維持在6%到9%不變。

And Nokia Technologies had a solid quarter, and the run rate remains at EUR1.3 billion after the significant smartphone renewals we had in the first quarter.

諾基亞科技公司 (Nokia Technologies) 的季度業績表現強勁，在第一季進行了大量智慧型手機更新後，運行率仍保持在 13 億歐元。

One thing to highlight in quarter two was that we signed an agreement with a video streaming platform related to our multimedia technology.

第二季需要強調的一件事是，我們與一個與我們的多媒體技術相關的視訊串流平台簽署了一項協議。

And this is an early step for us in this area, but it is an area that we think can become a meaningful opportunity for Nokia.

這是我們在該領域邁出的早期一步，但我們認為這個領域可以成為諾基亞的一個有意義的機會。

Then if we turn briefly to Nokia's net sales by region.

然後，我們簡單地看一下諾基亞按地區劃分的淨銷售額。

You will see here that India drove the majority of the net sales decline in quarter two as the year ago quarter was the absolute peak in the 5G deployment in India, and hence, the minus 69% decline in the quarter.

您將在這裡看到，第二季淨銷售額下降的主要原因是印度，因為去年同期是印度 5G 部署的絕對峰值，因此該季度下降了-69%。

We are pleased to see a return to growth in North America, supported by the one-off AT&T benefit.

我們很高興看到北美地區在 AT&T 一次性福利的支持下恢復成長。

But aside from that, we also saw a return to growth in our Network Infrastructure business in North America.

但除此之外，我們也看到北美網路基礎設施業務恢復成長。

In other regions, there was softness across most markets.

在其他地區，大多數市場都表現疲軟。

In quarter two, we generated solid free cash flow, which led to a net cash balance of EUR5.5 billion.

第二季度，我們產生了穩定的自由現金流，淨現金餘額達到 55 億歐元。

This was driven by operating profit and changes in net working capital as the India receivables, which built up during the deployment normalized.

這是由營業利潤和隨著部署期間累積的印度應收帳款正常化而導致的淨營運資本變化所推動的。

In addition, our cash benefited from EUR315 million of disposals, mainly related to both TD Tech and the sale of our device management and service management platforms.

此外，我們的現金也受益於3.15億歐元的出售，主要與鼎橋以及出售我們的設備管理和服務管理平台有關。

We also returned over EUR300 million to our shareholders through dividends and share buybacks.

我們也透過股利和股票回購向股東返還超過 3 億歐元。

You will also see in the release that we are now sharing the adjusted free cash flow by business group to help understand the differing dynamics of cash flow performance for each business.

您還將在新聞稿中看到，我們現在按業務組共享調整後的自由現金流，以幫助了解每個業務現金流績效的不同動態。

We are still working to refine the process and by our full-year results, we will provide you with historical data that will allow you to better interpret the performance.

我們仍在努力完善流程，根據全年業績，我們將為您提供歷史數據，以便您更好地解讀業績。

And with that, let me hand back to Pekka.

接下來，讓我把問題交還給佩卡。

Thanks a lot, Marco.

非常感謝，馬可。

So let's now look at some of the business highlights from the quarter.

現在讓我們來看看本季的一些業務亮點。

On June 27, as I'm sure you all recall, we announced the definitive agreement for Nokia to acquire Infinera in a deal we believe has strong strategic and financial rationale.

6 月 27 日，我相信你們都記得，我們​​宣布了諾基亞收購 Infinera 的最終協議，我們相信這項交易具有強有力的戰略和財務理由。

We hosted a call about the transaction a few weeks back, so I won't go again into all the detail on this.

幾週前我們召開了一次有關該交易的電話會議，因此我不會再次詳細討論此事。

But as a quick recap, there are three main reasons for the deal.

但快速回顧一下，這筆交易有三個主要原因。

First, we see a strong strategic and synergistic rationale for the transaction.

首先，我們認為此交易具有強而有力的策略和綜效。

There is a strong strategic fit with highly complementary customer, geographic and technology profiles between the two companies.

兩家公司之間具有很強的策略契合度，客戶、地理和技術方面具有高度互補性。

The timing is also optimal to build on the strong momentum both businesses have had in recent years and improves our long-term growth opportunities.

現在也是鞏固兩家公司近年來強勁勢頭並改善我們長期成長機會的最佳時機。

From a synergy perspective, we target net run rate synergies of EUR200 million by 2027 at the operating profit level.

從綜效的角度來看，我們的目標是到 2027 年營業利潤水準的淨運作率綜效達到 2 億歐元。

Second, we believe this transaction will strongly enhance our network infrastructure business.

其次，我們相信此交易將有力增強我們的網路基礎設施業務。

The transaction will increase our enterprise exposure in NI, particularly when considering Infinera's recent web-scale design wins in systems and pluggables.

這項交易將增加我們在 NI 的企業知名度，特別是考慮到 Infinera 最近在系統和可插拔設備方面取得的網路規模設計勝利。

The combined business will have over EUR600 million of annual webscale sales in optical.

合併後的業務年光學網路規模銷售額將超過 6 億歐元。

Finally, in terms of the financials, we expect the transaction to be accretive to Nokia's comparable operating profit and EPS in year one and to deliver over 10% comparable EPS accretion in 2027, assuming the transaction closes by the first half of '25.

最後，就財務而言，我們預計該交易將增加諾基亞第一年的可比營業利潤和每股收益，並在2027 年實現超過10% 的可比每股收益增長（假設交易在2025 年上半年完成） 。

We also expect the acquisition to deliver a return on invested capital comfortably above Nokia's cost of capital.

我們也預期此次收購將帶來遠高於諾基亞資本成本的投資回報。

I would also just like to add now that it has been a few weeks.

我還想補充一點，已經過去幾週了。

The customer reaction to the deal has so far been very positive, indeed, even some excitement about what the combined business can do for them.

到目前為止，客戶對這筆交易的反應確實非常積極，甚至對合併後的業務可以為他們帶來的好處感到興奮。

We also announced the agreement to divest submarine networks, which has previously been part of the network infrastructure business group.

我們還宣布了剝離海底網路的協議，該網路先前屬於網路基礎設施業務集團的一部分。

And going forward, that means that NI will be built on three market-leading pillars.

展望未來，這意味著 NI 將建立在三個市場領先的支柱之上。

Fixed networks continues to be well positioned to benefit from strong demand in the fiber market.

固定網路持續受益於光纖市場的強勁需求。

This is evident in markets where fiber is not yet highly penetrated and in more mature markets where customers are starting to upgrade to XGS-PON or 25G PON.

這在光纖尚未高度普及的市場以及客戶開始升級到 XGS-PON 或 25G PON 的更成熟市場中尤其明顯。

Elsewhere, government funding projects are expected to start towards the end of this year, and Nokia was the first vendor to announce the availability of Buy America compliant products.

在其他地方，政府資助計畫預計將於今年底啟動，諾基亞是第一家宣布推出符合「Buy America」標準產品的供應商。

Given these dynamics and opportunities, we target mid-single-digit growth for fixed networks.

鑑於這些動態和機遇，我們的目標是固定網路實現中個位數成長。

Our IP networks business continues to see the ramp up FP5 and FPcx routing products and the expansion into new markets like data center switching.

我們的 IP 網路業務繼續見證 FP5 和 FPcx 路由產品的成長，並擴展到資料中心交換等新市場。

It has been showing continued momentum in expanding its presence beyond CSPs into the enterprise and web scale markets, and we expect this to continue.

它在將其業務從 CSP 擴展到企業和網路規模市場方面一直表現出持續的勢頭，我們預計這種情況將繼續下去。

In the business -- in this business, we are also targeting mid-single-digit growth.

在這項業務中，我們的目標也是中個位數成長。

With respect to our newly strengthened position in optical, we believe this now has at least a mid-single-digit growth opportunity and now a compelling path to a mid-teens operating margin.

就我們在光學領域新加強的地位而言，我們相信現在至少有中個位數的成長機會，並且現在是通往中雙位數營業利潤率的一條引人注目的道路。

These businesses combined will give us a unique position in network infrastructure.

這些業務的結合將使我們在網路基礎設施領域佔據獨特的地位。

On a pro forma basis for the two transactions in 2023, network infrastructure would be an EUR8.4 billion revenue business that targets mid-single-digit net sales growth with margins that would, pro forma, be around 12%, but we believe can expand over time to mid to high teens.

根據 2023 年這兩筆交易的預計，網路基礎設施將是一項收入 84 億歐元的業務，目標是實現中個位數的淨銷售額增長，預計利潤率約為 12%，但我們相信可以隨著時間的推移擴展到中高青少年。

One other topic I wanted to discuss is our customer momentum in mobile networks.

我想討論的另一個主題是我們在行動網路中的客戶動力。

Clearly, as you know, we had a setback in December with AT&T's decision to actually single source their network -- their radio network to a different vendor for commercial reasons.

顯然，如您所知，我們在 12 月遇到了挫折，因為 AT&T 決定實際上將其網路單一來源——出於商業原因將其無線電網路提供給不同的供應商。

Now as Marco mentioned, we have concluded negotiations with AT&T related to our existing rent contracts, which gives us clarity on the path forward.

現在，正如 Marco 所提到的，我們已經與 AT&T 就現有租賃合約進行了談判，這讓我們對前進的道路有了清晰的認識。

But more importantly, if we take a step back and look at the overall development, we continue to make significant progress with customers in our mobile networks business.

但更重要的是，如果我們退一步看整體發展，我們將繼續在行動網路業務中與客戶取得重大進展。

Since 2019, we have won a total of 55 new RAN customers, and we have increased our share at another 33 customers.

自2019年以來，我們總共贏得了55個新的RAN客戶，並且我們還增加了另外33個客戶的份額。

This drove the significant increase in market share that we saw between '21 and '23.

這推動了我們在 21 年至 23 年間看到的市場份額的顯著增長。

We have won a significant number of deals this year, including completely new customers such as MEO in Portugal, and maintaining our position at other key operators in Europe as there has been a lot of customer tendering activity.

今年我們贏得了大量交易，包括葡萄牙的 MEO 等全新客戶，並且由於有大量客戶招標活動，我們保持了在歐洲其他主要營運商中的地位。

I continue to firmly see the AT&T decision was a very customer-specific situation.

我仍然堅信 AT&T 的決定是針對特定客戶的情況而做出的。

We have a compelling product offering for customers that is resonating and helping us to build a stronger future for our mobile networks business.

我們為客戶提供了引人注目的產品，這些產品引起了客戶的共鳴，並幫助我們為行動網路業務打造更美好的未來。

We are also making strong progress with our Open RAN and Cloud RAN projects. and we remain the most open vendor in the market, as I highlighted last quarter.

我們的 Open RAN 和 Cloud RAN 專案也取得了巨大進展。正如我在上季度強調的那樣，我們仍然是市場上最開放的供應商。

In Q2, we partnered with Vodafone to introduce Open RAN into their network in Italy.

在第二季度，我們與沃達豐合作，將 Open RAN 引入他們在義大利的網路中。

With FTC, we completed the world's first trial of an ORAN-based private 5G network using Microsoft as your operator Nexus.

我們與 FTC 合作，使用 Microsoft 作為營運商 Nexus，完成了全球首次基於 ORAN 的專用 5G 網路的試驗。

And finally, our solutions have been validated with an ecosystem of leading industry partners across hardware and software.

最後，我們的解決方案經過硬體和軟體領域領先產業合作夥伴生態系統的驗證。

I would note that this continues to be a highly competitive market, and we see intense competition in regions that Chinese vendors are still able to compete in, but we have continued to win deals.

我要指出的是，這仍然是一個競爭激烈的市場，我們看到中國供應商仍然能夠參與競爭的地區競爭激烈，但我們繼續贏得交易。

We will remain disciplined on pricing, however, as we have done in recent years.

然而，正如我們近年來所做的那樣，我們將繼續嚴格定價。

And that has helped us to significantly improve our gross margin in mobile networks, particularly on a relative basis.

這幫助我們大幅提高了行動網路的毛利率，特別是相對而言。

Turning to cloud and network services, where we continue to make great progress on network as code.

轉向雲端和網路服務，我們在網路即代碼方面繼續取得巨大進展。

This is the business we are building organically to help CSPs monetize network APIs and help developers access new network capabilities for their applications.

這是我們有機建構的業務，旨在幫助 CSP 透過網路 API 貨幣化，並幫助開發人員為其應用程式存取新的網路功能。

This is an ecosystem play, and we are proud to now have 16 signed agreements with partners across the ecosystem.

這是一個生態系統的遊戲，我們很自豪現在與整個生態系統的合作夥伴簽署了 16 份協議。

This includes new CSP partners such as Orange, Telefónica, and Turkcell.

其中包括 Orange、Telefónica 和 Turkcell 等新的 CSP 合作夥伴。

Importantly, we signed agreements in Q2 with Infobip and Google.

重要的是，我們在第二季與 Infobip 和 Google 簽署了協議。

Both of those partnerships will enable access to a wider range of developers consequently driving demand and usage of network APIs through our platform.

這兩種合作夥伴關係將讓更多的開發人員接觸到更廣泛的開發人員，從而透過我們的平台推動網路 API 的需求和使用。

On that topic, we continue to make good R&D progress on the platform itself.

在這個主題上，我們繼續在平臺本身的研發方面取得良好進展。

And in Q2, we launched the network exposure platform to empower CSPs to expose their network capabilities to the ecosystems of their choice.

在第二季度，我們推出了網路暴露平台，使通訊服務供應商能夠將其網路功能暴露給他們選擇的生態系統。

We look forward to sharing more exciting news over the course of the year.

我們期待在這一年中分享更多令人興奮的消息。

Additionally, within cloud and network services, we have been seeing recent traction around core networks, particularly in Europe.

此外，在雲端和網路服務中，我們最近看到了核心網路的吸引力，特別是在歐洲。

This is evidenced by announcements we have made, including with O2, Telefonica in Germany with the deployment of 5G stand-alone core software on Amazon Web Services as well as other deals with Norlys of Denmark and Aire Networks in Spain.

我們發布的公告證明了這一點，包括與 O2、德國 Telefonica 在 Amazon Web Services 上部署 5G 獨立核心軟體，以及與丹麥 Norlys 和西班牙 Aire Networks 的其他交易。

Next, I wanted to highlight some of the results of the FAST action we have taken to reduce our cost base.

接下來，我想強調我們為降低成本基礎所採取的快速行動的一些成果。

As a reminder, in October, we announced a target to lower our cost base on a gross basis by between EUR800 million and EUR1.2 billion by the end of '26.

提醒一下，我們在 10 月宣布了到 26 年底將總成本基礎降低 8 億歐元至 12 億歐元的目標。

This represented a 10% to 15% reduction in our personnel expenses.

這意味著我們的人員開支減少了 10% 到 15%。

You can see in the slide, the progress we have made so far on the October program.

您可以在幻燈片中看到我們迄今為止在 10 月計劃中取得的進展。

We have already actioned EUR400 million of savings by Q2 and we will continue to make further progress in the second half to reach the EUR400 million of in-year savings we have committed.

我們已經在第二季度節省了 4 億歐元，下半年我們將繼續取得進一步進展，以實現我們承諾的年內節省 4 億歐元。

The program is expected to lead to a 72,000 to 77,000 employee organization compared to 86,000 employees Nokia had when the program was announced.

該計劃預計將形成一個擁有 72,000 至 77,000 名員工的組織，而該計劃宣佈時諾基亞的員工數量為 86,000 名。

As of the end of June, our headcount was just under 80,000.

截至 6 月底，我們的員工人數略低於 8 萬人。

Please remember that these numbers are on a like-for-like basis and do not reflect the recent announcements regarding ASN and Infinera.

請記住，這些數字是按同類數據計算的，並不反映最近有關 ASN 和 Infinera 的公告。

So we are making good progress on this program, and we'll continue to do so as we navigate the current market environment.

因此，我們在該計劃上取得了良好進展，並且在應對當前市場環境時我們將繼續這樣做。

Then on to our outlook.

然後談談我們的展望。

We believe the industry is stabilizing and given the order intake seen in recent quarters, we expect a significant acceleration in net sales growth in the second half.

我們認為該行業正在穩定，考慮到最近幾季的訂單量，我們預計下半年淨銷售額成長將顯著加速。

However, the net sales recovery is happening somewhat later than we previously expected, impacting our business group net sales assumptions for 2024, which Marco highlighted in his commentary.

然而，淨銷售額的復甦比我們之前的預期要晚一些，這影響了我們業務集團對 2024 年淨銷售額的假設，Marco 在評論中強調了這一點。

Despite this, we remain solidly on track to achieve our outlook for 2024, supported by the quick actions we have taken to reduce our costs.

儘管如此，在我們為降低成本而採取的快速行動的支持下，我們仍然堅定地走在實現 2024 年前景的軌道上。

We are now trending towards the midpoint or slightly below the midpoint of the operating range -- operating profit range of EUR20.3 billion (sic - see slide 17, "EUR2.3 billion") to EUR2.9 billion and towards the higher end of the cash conversion range of 30% to 60%.

我們現在正趨向於經營範圍的中點或略低於中點——營業利潤範圍為 203 億歐元（原文如此 - 參見幻燈片 17，“23 億歐元”）至 29 億歐元並走向高端現金轉換範圍為30%至60%。

So in conclusion, the weak market environment has continued.

綜上所述，疲弱的市場環境仍在持續。

However, we have seen a third quarter of order intake momentum, and we expect to see net sales growth in H2 weighted towards Q4.

然而，我們已經看到第三季的訂單成長勢頭，我們預計下半年的淨銷售額成長將影響第四季。

We have also seen -- we have also been encouraged by the level of customer engagement and tendering activities across all business groups.

我們也看到—我們也對所有業務集團的客戶參與度和招標活動的水平感到鼓舞。

We have moved quickly on the cost savings program, which we announced in October of last year, and this continues to support our outlook, which we have reiterated this quarter.

我們在去年 10 月宣布的成本節約計劃上迅速採取了行動，這繼續支持我們在本季度重申的前景。

The quarter saw another period of strong cash flow generation ending the quarter with a net cash balance of EUR5.5 billion.

本季又出現了強勁的現金流生成期，季末現金淨餘額達到 55 億歐元。

The Board intends to accelerate the previously announced buybacks, which will now be executed by the end of '24, a year ahead of the original schedule.

董事會打算加速先前宣布的回購計劃，該回購計劃將於 2024 年底執行，比原計劃提前一年。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And with that, I think we can now move on to your questions.

至此，我想我們現在可以繼續討論你的問題了。

Thank you, Pekka, Marco.

謝謝你，佩卡，馬可。

Before we move to the Q&A session, please let me give you one date for your dairy.

在我們進入問答環節之前，請讓我給您一個乳製品的日期。

We're planning to hold our next business group progress update on our network infrastructure business on Tuesday, September 3.

我們計劃於 9 月 3 日星期二舉行下一次業務組關於網路基礎設施業務的進度更新。

We plan to hold the event virtually, and we will send out to save the date in the coming days.

我們計劃以虛擬方式舉辦活動，並將在未來幾天內發送出去以保存日期。

We hope you'll all be able to join us.

我們希望你們都能加入我們。

(Event Instructions) Alice, could you please give the instructions?

（活動說明）Alice，您能給一下說明嗎？

(Operator Instructions) I will now hand the call back to David Mulholland.

（接線員指示）我現在將把電話轉回給大衛·穆赫蘭。

Francois Bouvignies, UBS.

弗朗索瓦·布維尼，瑞銀集團。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

So my question would be on the network infrastructure specifically.

所以我的問題主要是關於網路基礎設施。

So when we look at your fiscal full year EBIT margins for NI and the group EBIT margin, if we assume it's similar Q2 versus Q3 based on what you said on the seasonality.

因此，當我們查看 NI 的財政年度息稅前利潤率和集團息稅前利潤率時，如果我們根據您所說的季節性假設第二季度與第三季度相似。

This would imply NI EBIT margins on the high single-digit 10% range in Q3.

這意味著第三季的 NI 息稅前利潤率將達到 10% 的個位數高點。

And to get to full year, to get to your 11% plus EBIT margin for NI, would need like 20% plus of margins -- EBIT margins in Q4 with a very, very high top-line growth.

為了達到全年，NI 的息稅前利潤率達到 11% 以上，需要 20% 以上的利潤率——第四季度的息稅前利潤率，以及非常非常高的營收成長。

So maybe can you explain us how can we model such steep recovery when in H1, you did 6% NI EBIT margins and we need to put like mid-teens to 20% in the second half of the year.

那麼，也許您可以向我們解釋一下，在上半年，您的NI 息稅前利潤率為6%，而我們需要在下半年將這一數字從十幾歲左右提高到20%，那麼我們如何才能模擬如此急劇的復甦。

That would be my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

Thank you, Francois-Xavier.

謝謝你，弗朗索瓦-澤維爾。

And as we mentioned also in the release, the quarter three margin is balance between a weaker mobile networks margin.

正如我們在新聞稿中提到的，第三季的利潤率是行動網路利潤率疲軟之間的平衡。

And we won't have the benefit of the accelerated revenue recognition due to the AT&T deal resolution that we had in quarter two.

由於我們在第二季達成的 AT&T 交易決議，我們將無法享受到加速收入確認的好處。

And then, of course, good improvement in network infrastructure.

當然，還有網路基礎設施的良好改善。

So then yes, we expect a very strong quarter four, primarily driven by leverage from the sales volume we expect in the quarter.

那麼，是的，我們預計第四季度將非常強勁，這主要是由我們預期的本季銷售的槓桿推動的。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

桑迪普·德什潘德，摩根大通。

My question is, you're talking about this very strong -- again, back again to the strong revival in the second half better than normal seasonal.

我的問題是，你談論的是這種非常強勁的情況——再次回到下半年比正常季節更好的強勁復甦。

Is there a reason for this much better than normal seasonal behavior in the second half?

這是否比下半年的正常季節性行為好得多？

Is it just a revival?

難道只是復興嗎？

Or is it new projects?

還是新項目？

Or is it anything else which is causing the better than seasonal Q3 and Q4 top line?

還是有其他原因導致第三季和第四季的營收比季節性好？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Well, first of all, you have to remember that the comparables, of course, get significantly easier because last year was a bit of an exception when you look at seasonality.

好吧，首先，你必須記住，當然，可比性變得更加容易，因為當你考慮季節性時，去年有點例外。

The beginning of the year was strong, and then the end of the year was weak.

年初強，年末弱。

This year, we're expecting this whole thing to reverse itself.

今年，我們預計整件事情會逆轉。

And again, I mean, we have had now three quarters of strong order intake, which has been building order backlog, and that's what we have modeled into the forecast.

我的意思是，我們現在有四分之三的強勁訂單量，這一直在積壓訂單，這就是我們在預測中建模的內容。

Of course, this still requires that the good momentum in orders will continue in Q3 because there will be -- especially Network Infrastructure will be orders that will be needed in Q3 and to be delivered in Q4.

當然，這仍然需要第三季度繼續保持良好的訂單勢頭，因為特別是網路基礎設施將有第三季度需要並在第四季度交付的訂單。

So it's not yet in order backlog, but it is supported by the existing order backlog, the funnel that we have across the businesses and then the expected delivery times.

因此，它還不是訂單積壓，但它得到了現有訂單積壓、我們跨業務的管道以及預期交貨時間的支持。

This is also supported by when you look at kind of the general comments from our competitors and market analysts that are all highlighting that, yes, the market is starting to recover.

當您查看我們的競爭對手和市場分析師的一般評論時，也支持了這一點，這些評論都強調，是的，市場正在開始復甦。

Most of them are also saying that even though it recovers, the recovery is more slow than we originally thought, which you can see in us taking down the assumptions for this year.

他們中的大多數人也表示，儘管經濟正在復蘇，但復甦速度比我們最初想像的要慢，這一點可以從我們取消今年的假設中看​​到。

And then the assumption is that the market recovery will continue into 2025.

然後假設市場復甦將持續到 2025 年。

So as a summary, the Q4, it's not there yet in terms of order backlog.

總而言之，第四季的訂單積壓還沒有達到。

It requires that the good order momentum continues in Q3, but that is what we are expecting based on the funnel that we have.

它要求第三季繼續保持良好的訂單勢頭，但這正是我們根據現有管道所期望的。

And just a quick follow-up to Marco on the costs.

以及對 Marco 關於成本的快速跟進。

You've talked about this EUR400 million of the cost cutting, which is now you have implemented.

您談到了 4 億歐元的成本削減，現在您已經實施了。

Has this been implemented mostly gross margin, operating margin?

這是否主要反映在毛利率、營業利益率上？

Where is it being -- so when will we begin to see it in your margin as such really?

它在哪裡——那麼我們什麼時候才能真正開始在你的邊緣看到它？

Yes.

是的。

And remember, the EUR400 million that we mentioned is a run rate basis.

請記住，我們提到的 4 億歐元是運行率基礎。

And as we said originally, that one-third is coming on the sales -- cost of sales and two-thirds is coming from OpEx.

正如我們最初所說，三分之一來自銷售——銷售成本，三分之二來自營運支出。

So this -- what we are still estimating that that's the way that we are going to go forward as well.

所以我們仍然估計這也是我們前進的方向。

We have now, just like Pekka mentioned in his presentation as well, taking down number of employees, more than 6,000 since we started this project and our program, and we have been very fast in taking these actions.

正如 Pekka 在他的演講中提到的那樣，自從我們開始這個專案和計劃以來，我們已經減少了 6,000 多名員工，而且我們採取這些行動的速度非常快。

So we are quite confident that we are on the right track when it comes to the cost saving program.

因此，我們非常有信心在成本節約計劃方面我們走在正確的軌道上。

And I'll maybe just add one comment on the year-on-year challenge that we obviously had much lower variable pay accruals in Q2 last year that are more normal this year, and that also influences the year-on-year comparison.

我可能會就同比挑戰添加一條評論，我們去年第二季度的可變薪酬應計顯然要低得多，今年更為正常，這也影響了同比比較。

But thank you, Sandeep.

但謝謝你，桑迪普。

Janardan Menon, Jefferies.

賈納丹‧梅農，傑弗瑞斯。

Hi, good morning.

早安.

Thanks for taking the question.

感謝您提出問題。

I have a similar sort of question on your second half, but this time more on the cloud and network services division because as you say, the other divisions had lower seasonality in the -- in last year into the second half of the year, and so they have some benefit on the growth side.

我對你的下半年有類似的問題，但這次更多的是關於雲端和網路服務部門，因為正如你所說，其他部門在去年下半年的季節性較低，並且所以他們在成長方面有一些好處。

But this division did quite well towards the third and fourth quarters of last year.

但該部門去年第三季和第四季的表現相當不錯。

And if I look at your current guidance for cloud and network services at minus 5% to 0%, which is your updated guidance.

如果我看一下你們目前對雲端和網路服務的指導，即負 5% 到 0%，這是你們的更新指導。

You still need, in my calculation, more than 50% growth from Q2 to Q4 to achieve something like that.

根據我的計算，你仍然需要從第二季到第四季實現 50% 以上的成長才能實現這樣的目標。

Just wondering what is driving that?

只是想知道是什麼推動了這一點？

Is it to the core network wins that you talked about in Europe that you alluded in your opening remarks?

您在開場白中提到的歐洲核心網路勝利是指核心網路的勝利嗎？

And similarly, will that increase in sales lead to an improvement in gross margin as well on a year-on-year comparison, given that you had sort of good gross margins in the second half of last year, would it meaningfully improve from that as well?

同樣，考慮到去年下半年的毛利率不錯，銷售額的增長是否會導致毛利率的改善以及同比的改善，那麼它會因此而有意義地改善嗎？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Well, when you look at the seasonality of the CNS business this year will, unlike in NI, in CNS, this year's seasonality will be similar to the previous years.

嗯，當你看看今年 CNS 業務的季節性時，與 NI 不同，在 CNS 中，今年的季節性將與往年相似。

We had pretty much the same situation last year that the full-year result was made during Q4, and that's what we are expecting this year as well.

去年我們的情況與第四季的全年業績幾乎相同，這也是我們今年的預期。

Then we -- if you get into the fine detail, of course, now the effect of the disposal is like 3 percentage points on top line, which needs to be taken into account in the comparison.

然後我們——如果你深入到細節，當然，現在處置的效果就像是在營收上增加了 3 個百分點，在比較中需要考慮到這一點。

But this is supported by the deal momentum that we have had.

但這得到了我們已有的交易動能的支持。

Core networks is an interesting market at the moment.

核心網路目前是一個有趣的市場。

This is part of the dynamic.

這是動態的一部分。

So I mentioned traction in core networks in Europe.

所以我提到了歐洲核心網路的吸引力。

The core network market is consolidating.

核心網路市場正在整合。

You may have seen the Microsoft announcement that they are reconsidering a firm Metaswitch, i.e., their core network approach, core network is a market where also even in those countries that have not restricted specifically Chinese out, they are making moves on the core network in terms of high-risk vendors.

您可能已經看到微軟宣布他們正在重新考慮堅定的Metaswitch，即他們的核心網路方法，核心網路是一個市場，即使在那些沒有特別限制中國人出境的國家，他們也在核心網路上採取行動高風險供應商條款。

So this should be actually driving the core network to a situation where there will be a smaller number of vendors.

因此，這實際上應該會推動核心網路的供應商數量減少。

And clearly, this is one of our strengths, and we are starting to see this deal -- in the recent deal momentum.

顯然，這是我們的優勢之一，我們開始在最近的交易勢頭中看到這筆交易。

Now the thing in core networks, when you look at the whole CNS, which makes the comparison always challenging is that we have had a strong position in 3G core network, which has still been there in CNS numbers because it's software revenue.

現在核心網路中的事情，當你審視整個 CNS 時，這使得比較總是具有挑戰性，因為我們在 3G 核心網路中擁有強大的地位，它仍然存在於 CNS 數據中，因為它是軟體收入。

That market is declining quickly and that is being gradually replaced then by the 5G core network market.

該市場正在迅速下降，並逐漸被5G核心網市場取代。

That is the reason why even though the 5G core network has been increasing rapidly, it has been compensated then by the loss of the 3G market.

這就是為什麼5G核心網雖然成長很快，但後來卻被3G市場的損失所彌補。

That is the reason why you have not really seen growth in CNS in the last two to three years.

這就是為什麼在過去兩到三年中樞神經系統沒有真正成長的原因。

But again, we continue to believe in a very strong Q4 also this year in CNS.

但我們仍然相信中樞神經系統今年第四季也會非常強勁。

And just a brief follow-up -- sorry.

只是一個簡短的後續行動——抱歉。

Sorry, continue?

抱歉，繼續嗎？

Yeah, go ahead.

是的，繼續吧。

Your next question, Janardan?

賈納丹，你的下一個問題是？

Yeah.

是的。

Just on the AT&T contract resolution fee.

只是 AT&T 合約解決費。

You said it's a portion of our contract resolution?

你說這是我們合約決議的一部分？

So how -- can you give us an idea how much of the total this was and when we can expect any further payments from AT&T?

那麼，您能否告訴我們這佔總數的多少以及我們何時可以期望 AT&T 進一步付款？

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

We have still the agreement that we signed in '21, which ends by end of '25.

我們仍保留 21 年簽署的協議，該協議將於 25 年底結束。

And what we have now concluded with the AT&T, how will we deliver those services and software upgrades and whatever they need from us during this period.

我們現在與 AT&T 達成的協議是，我們將如何提供這些服務和軟體升級，以及在此期間他們需要我們提供什麼。

And this EUR150 million was more acceleration of the revenue recognition that would otherwise happen later.

而這 1.5 億歐元更是加速了收入確認，否則將在以後發生。

So we continue to deliver as we go until the end of '25.

因此，我們將繼續交付，直到 25 年底。

But just like we guide as well that this year will be approximately at the same level as last year, while next year will be about half of the volume that we have this year.

但正如我們所預測的那樣，今年的產量將與去年大致相同，而明年的產量將約為今年的一半。

And then to follow up on -- continuing building on that, after '25, AT&T mobile networks will definitely not go to zero because there is ongoing indoor base station and microwave radio business in AT&T and then depending on how -- for how long time there will be continued to be operational Nokia-based stations in the network that is not for us to comment what that pace is.

然後跟進 - 繼續在此基礎上發展，25年後，AT＆T移動網絡肯定不會歸零，因為AT＆T正在進行室內基地台和微波無線電業務，然後取決於如何 - 持續多長時間網絡中將繼續運營基於諾基亞的電台，我們不方便評論其速度。

But assuming that there will be also Nokia-based business in the network after 2026, that will continue to generate some revenue for us.

但假設 2026 年後網路中還將有基於諾基亞的業務，這將繼續為我們帶來一些收入。

So it will drop to about half, as Marco said, in '25.

因此，正如 Marco 所說，到 25 年，這一數字將下降到一半左右。

This year, about the same level as last year, significant drop next year and then another drop in '26, but definitely not to zero.

今年的水平與去年大致相同，明年將大幅下降，然後在 26 年再次下降，但絕對不會降到零。

And still, just to be 100% clear on that acceleration.

儘管如此，還是要 100% 清楚地了解這種加速。

So what that means that we will be able to realize the original full value of the contract until the end of '25, but this acceleration in a way, reduces '25 and increases '24.

那麼這意味著我們將能夠在 25 年底之前實現合約的原始全部價值，但這種加速在某種程度上減少了 25 並增加了 24。

That's what's going to happen there.

這就是那裡將要發生的事情。

And just building also that what comes to '26 and forward, then, of course, there's new opportunities that we definitely are fighting for and secure that we will get a good opportunity to win those as well.

當然，只要建立 26 年及以後的內容，我們肯定會爭取新的機會，並確保我們也將獲得贏得這些機會的好機會。

So it doesn't mean that, that ends there.

所以這並不意味著，就到此為止。

So the EUR150 million is the acceleration fee to compensate for the sharp decline into next year?

那麼 1.5 億歐元是為了彌補明年急遽下滑的加速費嗎？

No, it's not a fee.

不，這不是費用。

It's based on the contract that we have with AT&T, that EUR150 million would have been recognized later.

根據我們與 AT&T 簽訂的合同，1.5 億歐元將在稍後確認。

And we -- because we concluded the negotiations, according to IFRS, we have to take that EUR150 million part already in quarter two instead of later periods.

而我們——因為我們根據國際財務報告準則完成了談判，所以我們必須在第二季度而不是稍後的時期就拿走這 1.5 億歐元部分。

Simon Leopold, Raymond James.

西蒙·利奧波德，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Thank you very much for taking the question.

非常感謝您提出問題。

First one, I wanted to ask you about your interpretation and thoughts of the news out of Germany regarding the government taking some action against Chinese vendors.

首先，我想問您對德國政府對中國供應商採取行動的消息的解讀和看法。

How do you see that opportunity?

您如何看待這個機會？

And is it your interpretation that it's limited to mobile core?

您的解釋是它僅限於移動核心嗎？

Or does this present an opportunity for accelerating RAN replacement in Germany?

或者這為德國加速 RAN 更換提供了機會？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Obviously, we have noted the news in Germany.

顯然，我們已經注意到德國的消息。

I mean there are some clear parts in the announcement, and then there is also some acuity, which we are still trying to understand what it means.

我的意思是，公告中有一些明確的部分，而且也有一些敏銳性，我們仍在努力理解它的含義。

The mobile core part is pretty clear.

移動核心部分非常清晰。

On the other hand, the market share of Chinese players in mobile core has been very limited so far.

另一方面，中國廠商在行動核心領域的市佔率迄今仍非常有限。

So that is not a huge needle mover as such.

所以這並不是一個巨大的推動者。

But of course, it means that there will be no opportunities for them to enter the mobile core as that market will, of course, be a highly -- very important market when they are moving to 5G standalone core and so on.

但當然，這意味著他們將沒有機會進入行動核心，因為當他們轉向 5G 獨立核心等時，該市場將是一個非常非常重要的市場。

Then the RAN part, that's where the ambiquity is, and we still need more information on what exactly those statements will mean in terms of management software and what it will mean or will not mean to base station hardware and base station software.

然後是 RAN 部分，這就是模糊性所在，我們仍然需要更多資訊來了解這些陳述對管理軟體的確切含義以及對基地台硬體和基地台軟體意味著什麼或不意味著什麼。

We do not yet have enough information to make a definitive assessment.

我們還沒有足夠的資訊來做出明確的評估。

So we need to get back to this one.

所以我們需要回到這一點。

Yeah.

是的。

A follow-up is I'd like to see if you could update us on the progress and efforts to diversify particularly into enterprise and including the hyperscale, thoughts on where that stands and how you're thinking about that prospect.

後續問題是，我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹多元化的進展和努力，特別是企業（包括超大規模）、對現狀的想法以及您如何看待這一前景。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That obviously continues to be a key element in our strategy.

顯然，這仍然是我們策略的關鍵要素。

When you look at the second quarter, non-CSP business was now or enterprise net sales were 11.6% of group net sales.

當你看第二季時，非 CSP 業務或企業淨銷售額佔集團淨銷售額的 11.6%。

So that's been trending continuously up.

所以這個趨勢一直持續上升。

Of course, now enterprise has not been immune to the general market weakness.

當然，現在企業也未能倖免於市場普遍疲軟的影響。

But when you look at the kind of the delta between our top line trajectory in enterprise and then CSP, there has been -- continued to be a significant difference in Q2.

但是，當您查看我們的企業營收軌跡與 CSP 營收軌跡之間的增量時，就會發現第二季仍有顯著差異。

I think that was pretty much 20 percentage points, that top line trajectory difference.

我認為頂線軌跡差異差不多有 20 個百分點。

So this continues to be a key part.

所以這仍然是一個關鍵部分。

We are making good progress.

我們正在取得良好進展。

And the very important thing, of course, is that the Q4 acquisition of Phoenix is targeted to accelerate the defense business that we have.

當然，非常重要的是，第四季收購 Phoenix 的目的是加速我們的國防業務。

And then the Infinera acquisition is targeted to accelerate our webscale business and especially the data center business, which, of course, unlike the core CSP business, the data center market will be an attractive growth market for many years to come.

然後，收購 Infinera 的目的是加速我們的網路規模業務，特別是資料中心業務，當然，與核心 CSP 業務不同，資料中心市場在未來許多年將是一個有吸引力的成長市場。

And that's what we'll get into much more strongly through the Infinera acquisition.

這就是我們將透過收購英飛朗而更加深入了解的內容。

So we are looking forward to these opportunities.

所以我們期待這些機會。

And of course, we continue to look for additional opportunities, some of which we are working on organically, including the data center switching opportunities in our IP networks of NI.

當然，我們會繼續尋找其他機會，其中一些我們正在有機地開展工作，包括 NI IP 網路中的資料中心交換機會。

Artem Beletski, SEB.

阿爾喬姆·貝列茨基，SEB。

Yes, hi.

是的，嗨。

Thank you for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Actually, I would like to ask on NI and could you maybe provide some further color on pace of recovery, business subsegments, as you, for example, made some comments in accordance with Q1 results.

事實上，我想問NI，您能否提供一些有關復甦速度、業務細分的進一步信息，例如您根據第一季度的結果發表了一些評論。

And what comes to lower revenue outlook for the business where probably it is predominantly coming or what is our key puts and takes there.

業務收入前景下降可能會導致什麼，或者我們的關鍵投入和收穫是什麼。

And then I have a follow-up.

然後我有一個後續行動。

Yes, there is no huge difference between the three segments in terms of the revised outlook.

是的，就修訂後的前景而言，這三個細分市場之間沒有太大差異。

We continue to have good orders momentum in all of them.

我們在所有這些領域都繼續保持良好的訂單動能。

We had good orders actually in fixed broadband in Q2, particularly in North America, which is a promising sign because we received now the first BEAD-related orders in North America some of which will be already supporting Q4 revenue though it will not be a huge needle mover yet in Q4, as we have said earlier, but we will get some already this year.

實際上，我們在第二季的固定寬頻領域獲得了不錯的訂單，特別是在北美，這是一個有希望的跡象，因為我們現在收到了北美第一批與BEAD 相關的訂單，其中一些訂單將已經支持第四季度的收入，儘管這不會是一個巨大的收入正如我們之前所說，第四季度尚未有針推動器，但今年我們已經得到了一些。

I believe that we will be the first one to benefit Hence, we have made already in the previous quarter kind of optimistic comments about the Fixed Networks outlook.

我相信我們將是第一個受益者。

And then, of course, the BEAD will be much more a '25, '26 story.

當然，BEAD 將更像是一個 25 年、26 年的故事。

But really to answer the main question that you had, it's fairly balanced between the three units in NI.

但實際上要回答您的主要問題，NI 中的三個單元之間相當平衡。

Okay.

好的。

That's clear.

很清楚。

And maybe just a quick follow-up on the buyback program and acceleration decision being done there or to be done.

也許只是對回購計劃和加速決策的快速跟進已經完成或即將完成。

What is actually driving it?

到底是什麼在驅動它？

Is it purely a strong cash position, what we have in place?

我們所擁有的僅僅是強大的現金狀況嗎？

Or is it already a preparation for Infinera deal completion, so to speak, as the amount of shares is likely to increase.

或者可以說，這已經是英飛朗交易完成的準備，因為股份數量可能會增加。

And then is out at this stage by the board in terms of discontinuation looking beyond '24?

那麼現階段董事會是否會考慮在 24 年後停止生產？

Yes.

是的。

As you remember, we introduced in the beginning of this year a share buyback program.

如您所知，我們在今年年初推出了股票回購計畫。

The ambition was the EUR300 million will be down this year and EUR300 million additional next year.

我們的目標是今年減少 3 億歐元，明年增加 3 億歐元。

What the Board of Directors decided that we will accelerate that program and now do the whole EUR600 million in 2024.

董事會決定我們將加快該計劃，現在將在 2024 年完成全部 6 億歐元。

And this is of course, based on the shareholder distribution policy and the strengthened cash position that we have.

當然，這是基於股東分配政策和我們擁有的增強的現金狀況。

And what comes to Infinera remember as well that ambition is that we will finance this totally from our cash on hand.

英飛朗也請記住，我們的雄心壯志是完全用我們手邊的現金來融資。

And we have also said when we presented the deal that we will acquire additional shares or buy additional shares to secure that there will not be any dilution because of these deals.

我們在提出交易時也說過，我們將獲得額外的股份或購買額外的股份，以確保不會因為這些交易而出現任何稀釋。

And after the shareholder meeting in Infinera, we know exactly what is the amount of shares that we need to buy back as well.

在英飛朗召開股東大會之後，我們也清楚知道我們需要回購的股票數量是多少。

So that means that whatever the Infinera dilution will be -- that will be executed through buybacks on top of the EUR600 million program.

因此，這意味著無論英飛朗的稀釋程度如何，都將在 6 億歐元計畫的基礎上透過回購來執行。

Joseph Zhou, Barclays.

約瑟夫週，巴克萊銀行。

Hi, morning.

嗨，早安。

Thank you for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

I have one and then a follow-up.

我有一個，然後是後續。

So my question is on AT&T and thanks for the clarification about the impact now.

我的問題是關於 AT&T 的，感謝您現在對影響的澄清。

Now we've got much better visibility.

現在我們的能見度好得多。

But just to understand, one is, do you actually get any conversation from AT&T at all?

但要了解的是，一是，您真的收到 AT&T 的任何對話嗎？

And number two is the quarterly phasing of the AT&T contribution or run rate?

第二個問題是 AT&T 貢獻或運行率的季度階段？

How do we think about it, i.e., did you recognize a normal revenue from AT&T in Q1?

我們如何看待這個問題，即您在第一季是否確認了來自 AT&T 的正常收入？

And then your overall recognized EUR150 million in Q2?

那麼您在第二季總共確認了 1.5 億歐元？

And how should we think about Q3 and Q4 to [single out the] AT&T revenue run rate?

我們應該如何考慮第三季和第四季來[選出] AT&T 的營收運作率？

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yes, we have -- the underlying contract is stipulating how we -- what we deliver to AT&T.

是的，我們有——基礎合約規定了我們如何——向 AT&T 交付什麼。

And based on that deliveries, what we do, we recognize just like joining at our customer as well and the EUR150 million is acceleration only because of the accounting rules that we have to do in quarter two when we concluded the new amendment to the deal that we have already with AT&T.

基於這些交付，我們所做的，我們認識到就像加入我們的客戶一樣，1.5 億歐元只是加速，只是因為我們在第二季度完成交易的新修訂時必須執行的會計規則：我們已經與AT&T 合作了。

So we go -- as we go, we recognize the revenue based on what they buy and what we delivered to them.

因此，我們會根據他們購買的產品以及我們提供給他們的產品來確認收入。

Okay.

好的。

So it's a normal kind of run rate in the second half, Q3 and Q4 based on AT&T?

那麼根據 AT&T 的數據，下半年第三季和第四季的運行率是正常的嗎？

Just like to any other customers, whatever they buy, so we recognize the revenue based on that.

就像其他客戶一樣，無論他們購買什麼，我們都會據此確認收入。

Okay.

好的。

That's clear.

很清楚。

And my follow-up is really on Vodafone Idea.

我的後續行動其實是關於沃達豐創意的。

Obviously, you took a small stake -- exit stake in Vodafone Idea.

顯然，您持有沃達豐創意的一小部分股份——退出股份。

And I believe partly to help them finance the route which they have yet deployed in India.

我相信部分是為了幫助他們為尚未在印度部署的路線提供資金。

And just to understand, one is, what's the kind of expected margin of that project compared to the normal kind of India margin that you saw last year and also the timing of it?

只是為了了解，一個是，與您去年看到的印度正常利潤率相比，該項目的預期利潤率是多少，以及它的時間表？

Are we expecting to see the start of the rollout at the end of the year or next year or second half of the next year, et cetera?

我們是否預計在年底或明年或明年下半年等開始推出？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yes.

是的。

We never comment specific margins per customer.

我們從不評論每位客戶的具體利潤。

And just like Pekka mentioned earlier as well, that our ambition is to have good margins on all deals that we do.

就像佩卡之前提到的那樣，我們的目標是在我們所做的所有交易中獲得良好的利潤。

So this is the ambition we have.

這就是我們的雄心。

And Vodafone Idea or any other customer is a specific contract and margins vary always depending what they buy and different other conditions in the agreements.

沃達豐創意或任何其他客戶都是特定的合同，利潤總是根據他們購買的產品以及協議中的其他不同條件而變化。

But our ambition is always to make deals that we believe are supporting the shareholder value creation.

但我們的目標始終是進行我們認為能夠支持股東價值創造的交易。

And based on that, we make the decisions on each deal.

在此基礎上，我們對每筆交易做出決定。

I mean the key thing in India, in addition to Bharti and Reliance Jio is really that Vodafone Idea have made progress on their financing.

我的意思是，在印度，除了 Bharti 和 Reliance Jio 之外，最關鍵的是 Vodafone Idea 在融資方面取得了進展。

And the deal to convert some of the debt to shares, which we did in the same way as some others was obviously part of their capital structure development.

我們以與其他一些公司相同的方式進行了將部分債務轉換為股票的交易，這顯然是他們資本結構發展的一部分。

We do not intend to become an operator in India.

我們不打算成為印度的營運商。

That small share that we have in them, there is a lockup period.

我們持有的那一小部分股份有一個禁售期。

But after that, we will be free to do whatever we want with that.

但在那之後，我們將可以自由地做任何我們想做的事。

So that is purely in a way, a tactical move from us.

所以這在某種程度上純粹是我們的戰術舉措。

But then the key thing for our future in India will be to understand that how much will Vodafone Idea be investing in their network, especially in their 5G expansion.

但對於我們在印度的未來來說，關鍵是要了解 Vodafone Idea 將在其網絡、特別是 5G 擴展方面投資多少。

And that is clearly an opportunity for us, assuming that they get their funding arranged.

假設他們得到了資金安排，這對我們來說顯然是一個機會。

And as I said, there is now promising progress on that.

正如我所說，現在這方面已經取得了可喜的進展。

Assuming that, that really happens, there is good potential for us for revenue in their 5G going forward.

假設這種情況真的發生，我們在 5G 方面的收入將有很大的潛力。

Sami Sarkamies, Danske Bank.

薩米·薩卡米斯，丹麥銀行。

Hi.

你好。

You have increased the margin guidance for mobile networks by 3 percentage points.

您已將行動網路的利潤指引提高了 3 個百分點。

Is this relation fully explained by the AT&T settlements and do you assume more high-margin revenues in the second half of the year or next year?

AT&T 和解協議是否充分解釋了這種關係？

No, it's really a combination of that EUR150 million, which you can mathematically, of course, calculate how much that is.

不，它實際上是 1.5 億歐元的組合，當然，你可以用數學方法計算出具體金額。

But it's not only that, it's also good progress on the cost side.

但不僅如此，在成本方面也取得了不錯的進步。

It's a combination of this, too.

這也是這兩者的結合。

Okay, thanks.

好的謝謝。

And then I would ask about your thinking regarding portfolio management, are you interested in making additional bolt-on acquisitions to Infinera?

然後我想問您對投資組合管理的想法，您是否有興趣對 Infinera 進行額外的補強收購？

And why did you think it was a good time to divest ASN now?

為什麼您認為現在是剝離 ASN 的好時機？

Well, if I take ASN now, first, obviously, it's a well-known fact that we've been contemplating that divestment for a long time.

好吧，如果我現在選擇 ASN，首先，顯然，眾所周知，我們長期以來一直在考慮撤資。

And -- fact number one.

還有——第一個事實。

Fact number two, as part of the original Alcatel-Lucent acquisition deal in 2016, the French state has had a veto right on a number of strategic decisions, which then always limited our freedom to maneuver the business.

第二個事實，作為2016年阿爾卡特朗訊最初收購交易的一部分，法國政府對許多戰略決策擁有否決權，這始終限制了我們操縱業務的自由。

So we just now were able to finally find a solution with the French states that now is a good time for them to acquire the business.

因此，我們剛剛終於與法國各州找到了解決方案，現在是他們收購業務的好時機。

It was more tactical that we were now after quite lengthy discussions we were able to find each other on the terms and conditions.

經過相當長的討論後，我們現在能夠就條款和條件找到對方，這更具戰術性。

It's -- there's not more than that into that.

就是——沒有更多的內容了。

We are pleased with the acquisition prices, especially when you -- or the divestment price, especially when you look at the when you look at the profit multiple, which is a good multiple.

我們對收購價格感到滿意，特別是當你——或撤資價格，特別是當你看利潤倍數時，這是一個很好的倍數。

And also keeping in mind that it's a capital-intensive business that requires cash flow to be invested in CapEx.

另請記住，這是一項資本密集型業務，需要將現金流投資於資本支出。

And remembering that if you want to significantly increase the revenue in the future, that, of course, then requires out-going CapEx into capacity build.

請記住，如果您想在未來大幅增加收入，當然需要將資本支出投入產能建設。

So we believe that everything considered it was both a good timing for the divestment and also a good price that we received.

因此，我們相信，綜合考慮，這既是撤資的好時機，也是我們收到的好價格。

Then when it comes to additional deals, I mean, we continue to be extremely prudent.

然後，當涉及額外交易時，我的意思是，我們仍然非常謹慎。

There could be bolt-on acquisitions, but any acquisitions would have to follow extremely strong and compelling industrial logic, strong synergies, strong logic.

可能會有補強收購，但任何收購都必須遵循極其強大和引人注目的產業邏輯、強大的協同效應和強大的邏輯。

I mean, that will always be a prerequisite for any acquisition as we have now seen in the Infinera case with EUR200 million synergies and exceptionally strong customer and market position complementarity.

我的意思是，這永遠是任何收購的先決條件，正如我們現在在 Infinera 案例中看到的那樣，它具有 2 億歐元的協同效應以及異常強大的客戶和市場地位互補性。

Jakob Bluestone, BNP Paribas Exane.

雅各布·布魯斯通 (Jakob Bluestone)，法國巴黎銀行 Exane。

I had a question on your cash flow.

我有一個關於你的現金流的問題。

You cut your CapEx from EUR600 million to EUR550 million.

您將資本支出從 6 億歐元削減至 5.5 億歐元。

So if you can maybe just talk us through that.

所以如果你可以的話，請告訴我們這個問題。

And then I also just had a follow-up on the AT&T impact.

然後我也剛跟進了 AT&T 的影響。

Can you maybe just comment on the cash flow as opposed to P&L impact of the EUR150 million accelerated revenue recognition?

您能否只評論一下現金流，而不是 1.5 億歐元加速收入確認對損益的影響？

Is it correct that, that would lead to a negative working capital movement?

這是否會導致營運資本的負流動？

And if so, if you can maybe just comment around your working capital, which was plus EUR100 million in the quarter.

如果是這樣，您是否可以評論一下您的營運資金，該季度的營運資金增加了 1 億歐元。

So would that have been plus EUR260 million kind of ex-AT&T?

那麼，這是否會加上 2.6 億歐元（前 AT&T 公司）？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yes.

是的。

When it comes to EUR150 million, we remind revenue now and that payment will come accordingly as well when -- according to those payment terms that we have.

當涉及 1.5 億歐元時，我們提醒您現在的收入，並且根據我們現有的付款條件，相應的付款也會隨之而來。

Cash flow has been extremely good in the first half, as you've seen, thanks to the, first of all, normalization of net working capital and also the India payments that we have received but also due to the actions that we have taken internally to secure that we have optimization of the net working capital and improve the processes within the company.

正如您所看到的，上半年的現金流非常好，這首先要歸功於淨營運資本的正常化以及我們收到的印度付款，但也歸功於我們內部採取的行動確保我們優化淨營運資本並改善公司內部流程。

So we've seen the rotation days improving in net working capital.

因此，我們看到淨營運資本的輪替天數有所改善。

And that's resulting all of these different actions and reasons resulted in very good cash generation in the first half year.

所有這些不同的行動和原因導致上半年產生了非常好的現金流。

Do you have a quick follow-up, Jakob?

雅各布，你有快速跟進嗎？

I guess just to confirm the cash flow impact, so you have a cash -- working capital outflow in -- our had a working capital outflow in Q2, and then we'll have working capital inflows subsequently.

我想只是為了確認現金流的影響，所以你有現金——營運資本流出——我們在第二季度有營運資本流出，然後我們隨後會有營運資本流入。

Is that correct?

那是對的嗎？

No.

不。

We had a very good positive impact of working capital.

我們對營運資金產生了非常好的正面影響。

And what it comes to -- if you look rest of the year, specifically in quarter four when we have a huge sales increase estimated, then of course, that is tidying up accounts receivables and will, of course, impact the cash generation in the fourth quarter.

這意味著什麼——如果你看看今年剩下的時間，特別是在第四季度，當我們估計銷售額大幅增長時，那麼當然，這就是清理應收帳款，當然會影響現金的產生第四季。

Daniel Jerberg, Handelsbanken.

丹尼爾‧傑伯格，德國商業銀行。

Thank you, David.

謝謝你，大衛。

Hi, Pekka and Marco.

嗨，佩卡和馬可。

I would like to ask a little bit on the growth.

我想問一些關於成長的問題。

And except for India, that stand for two-thirds of the weakness and those other weak markets.

除印度外，印度佔疲軟市場的三分之二，其他市場也疲軟。

You also have this reduction.

你也有這個減少。

I think you said 6,000 so far, planning for 9,000 to 14,000 versus the initial 8,000 to 6,000.

我想你說到目前為止是 6,000 個，計劃是 9,000 到 14,000 個，而不是最初的 8,000 到 6,000 個。

So my question is really this also in the new organizational structure, how much of the impact on the revenue decline comes from list, i.e., rightsizing?

所以我的問題實際上是，在新的組織結構中，對收入下降的影響有多少來自列表，即規模調整？

Thank you.

謝謝。

No, I would not say that there is any negative revenue impact from the organization change or downsizing.

不，我不會說組織變革或裁員會對收入產生任何負面影響。

This is really -- I mean, this is the market and this is the funnel.

這真的是——我的意思是，這就是市場，這就是漏斗。

I mean, we are fully competitive in terms of our offering, and we are fully resourced when it comes to sales and customer interface.

我的意思是，我們在產品方面具有充分的競爭力，並且在銷售和客戶介面方面我們擁有充足的資源。

So this is not the reason.

所以這不是原因。

And if I may do a small correction, you said that two-thirds of the revenue decline would come from India.

如果我可以做一個小修正，你說三分之二的收入下降將來自印度。

It was actually three-quarters came from India.

實際上四分之三來自印度。

So almost all was India related.

所以幾乎所有的事情都與印度有關。

But definitely not related to the operational model change.

但絕對與營運模式的改變無關。

We are pleased with the pace, as I said, on the cost cuts and the over 6,000 reduction in headcount in -- especially when you look on the relative terms, it has been a fast pace, but that is not the reason for the revenue hit.

正如我所說，我們對成本削減和裁員 6,000 多人的速度感到滿意，特別是當你看相對條件時，速度很快，但這並不是收入的原因打。

In India, just building on that.

在印度，只是在此基礎上發展。

Last year, India had a huge and very rapid deployment of 5G network, and our peak was in quarter two last year and of course, this year, they have been normalizing their deployment and slow down as well quite heavily and that's why we see this huge difference in quarter two.

去年，印度大規模且非常快速地部署了5G 網絡，我們的高峰是在去年的第二季度，當然，今年，他們的部署已經正常化，速度也大幅放緩，這就是我們看到這一點的原因第二季差異巨大。

In India, just to confirm the numbers, which are, of course, in the report, but so that you pay attention to them.

在印度，只是為了確認這些數字，當然這些數字都在報告中，但這樣你就可以關注它們。

So we had revenue acceleration in India in Q2 sequentially.

因此，我們第二季在印度的營收連續加速。

We had EUR329 million in India in Q1, and we have EUR600 million year-to-date.

第一季我們在印度的營收為 3.29 億歐元，今年迄今我們的營收為 6 億歐元。

But important is that we continue to expect what we earlier said that have full-year revenue in India between EUR1.5 billion to EUR2 billion.

但重要的是，我們繼續預期我們之前所說的印度全年收入將在 15 億歐元至 20 億歐元之間。

And this is not only a mobile game in India.

而且這不僅僅是印度的一款手機遊戲。

This is also network infrastructure.

這也是網路基礎設施。

And just as one proof point, this a contract that will start delivering significant revenues in Q4 and that is a fixed wireless contract that we have with an operator in India, which we actually announced earlier.

作為一個證據，這份合約將在第四季度開始帶來可觀的收入，這是我們與印度一家運營商簽訂的固定無線合同，我們實際上早些時候宣布了這一合約。

We were talking about an APAC fixed wireless contract, but we can now confirm that it is with an Indian operator.

我們正在談論亞太地區的固定無線合同，但我們現在可以確認它是與印度運營商簽訂的。

May have a short follow-up?

可以有一個簡短的後續行動嗎？

Sure.

當然。

Go ahead, Daniel.

繼續吧，丹尼爾。

Yeah.

是的。

And that is a little bit on EMEA and the future RAN opportunities.

這是關於 EMEA 和未來 RAN 機會的一些內容。

You touched upon Vodafone with in Italy, for example.

例如，您提到了義大利的沃達豐。

How should we look at the opportunities within, for example, with the spring procurement?

我們該如何看待其中的機會，例如春季採購？

I guess they have 100,000 sites in Europe, of which 30% should go with Open RAN or something.

我猜他們在歐洲有 100,000 個站點，其中 30% 應該使用 Open RAN 之類的站點。

Any indication of this being -- happening now or any news?

有任何跡象表明這種情況正在發生嗎？

Well, regardless whether -- regardless of how much of it would be open or any other RAN and there's a lot of different permutations on the network architecture development, we are ready.

好吧，無論有多少開放或任何其他 RAN，以及網路架構開發上有很多不同的排列，我們都準備好了。

I mean we can do Open RAN.

我的意思是我們可以做 Open RAN。

We can do Cloud RAN, we can do any RAN.

我們可以做Cloud RAN，我們可以做任何RAN。

We have, of course, a high ambition level in terms of Spring 6, but it is an ongoing project at the moment.

當然，我們對 Spring 6 抱有很高的目標，但目前它是一個正在進行的專案。

So I'm not in a position to give any kind of comments as to how it looks or anything like that other than that.

因此，除此之外，我無法對其外觀或類似內容發表任何評論。

Of course, we are participating.

當然，我們正在參與。

Andrew Gardiner, Citi.

安德魯·加德納，花旗銀行。

Thank you, David.

謝謝你，大衛。

I was interested in your perspective on the order intake and what that's going to mean in terms of the ultimate sales trajectory.

我對您對訂單量的看法以及這對最終銷售軌跡意味著什麼感興趣。

I mean, Pekka, you talked about how you've had all the momentum now for three straight quarters.

我的意思是，佩卡，你談到了你如何連續三個季度保持強勁勢頭。

So things are clearly improving and across the business units.

因此，各個業務部門的情況都在明顯改善。

Yet they're not translating into quite as much revenue as you would have hoped in the second half of this year.

然而，它們在今年下半年並沒有轉化為您所希望的那麼多收入。

In terms of what you're hearing from the customers, what they're actually ordering, is that -- because the deals are outright smaller in magnitude than you'd anticipated?

就您從客戶那裡聽到的情況來看，他們實際訂購的是什麼，是因為交易的規模比您預期的要小嗎？

Or is it sort of a timing issue?

或者這是一個時間問題？

And actually, the ramps are a little bit slower, so far in the second half is a bit weaker than you'd hoped, but ultimately, you're going to win some of that back or not win but it will just take longer to achieve it.

事實上，坡道有點慢，到目前為止，下半場比你希望的要弱一些，但最終，你會贏回一些，或者不會贏，但只是需要更長的時間來實現這一目標。

You'll see more of it in 2025.

2025 年你會看到更多。

This is exactly the two sides of the same coin that we are seeing that while we are saying that order intake has been good now for three quarters, but we did say after Q1 that the full year revenue outlook requires really strong order intake in Q2 and also Q3 for that matter.

這正是我們所看到的同一枚硬幣的兩面，雖然我們說訂單量已經連續三個季度保持良好，但我們確實在第一季度之後說過，全年收入前景需要第二季度的訂單量非常強勁，還有第三季。

So while Q2 order intake was good, but it was still not good enough so that we would have been able to maintain the full year outlook.

因此，雖然第二季的訂單量不錯，但仍然不足以讓我們能夠維持全年展望。

And remember, very importantly, part of the order intake that we are now receiving or received in Q2 is already going to be recognized as revenue in '25, not in this year.

請記住，非常重要的是，我們現在收到或第二季收到的部分訂單已經將在 25 年而不是今年被確認為收入。

Thank you.

謝謝。

I suppose related to that, I mean, does it make you rethink the cost saving program, you've got a fairly wide range around that EUR800 million to EUR1.2 billion.

我想與此相關的是，這是否會讓您重新考慮成本節約計劃，範圍相當廣泛，約為 8 億歐元到 12 億歐元。

Does that make you think you actually, slower ramp makes you keen to hit the top end of that range as opposed to the lower or midpoint?

這是否讓您認為，較慢的斜坡實際上使您熱衷於達到該範圍的上限，而不是下限或中點？

Well, what we have actually done is that we have accelerated the program.

嗯，我們實際上所做的是加速了這個計劃。

And when you look at -- I mean we were not -- when we started the program, we did not expect to be under 80,000 employees by the end of Q2.

當你看到——我的意思是我們沒有——當我們啟動該計劃時，我們並沒有預計到第二季末員工人數會低於 80,000 人。

So we have executed extremely quickly.

所以我們執行得非常快。

Then how it will continue.

那接下來要怎麼繼續。

And we are now -- and just as a reminder, we are targeting 72,000 to 77,000 employees at the end of '26.

我們現在 - 提醒一下，我們的目標是到 26 年底僱用 72,000 至 77,000 名員工。

And where we are going to go from here after this acceleration, we'll be following very carefully now the market pace of the market recovery.

在這種加速之後我們將何去何從，我們現在將非常仔細地關注市場復甦的市場步伐。

And it's clear that if that recovery is fast.

很明顯，如果恢復速度很快。

And if our market share development is good, then, of course, it's likely that we would end up closer to the upper end of that employee range, but we are very kind of prepared if needed, to go to the lower end of that range also should the market recovery be -- or continue to be very slow.

如果我們的市場份額發展良好，那麼，當然，我們最終可能會更接近該員工範圍的上限，但如果需要，我們已經做好準備，可以進入該範圍的下限市場復甦是否應該——或者繼續非常緩慢。

We are targeting -- kind of as a general comment, we are currently still targeting in our planning as a base assumption, somewhere around the midpoint of that, but we are prepared to move either up or down depending on how the market and our share develops.

我們的目標是——有點像一般性評論，我們目前仍然在我們的計劃中將目標作為基本假設，大約在中點附近，但我們準備根據市場和我們的份額向上或向下移動發展。

Richard Kramer, Arete Research.

理查德·克萊默，Arete 研究中心。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

A couple of things that maybe haven't been touched on yet.

有幾件事可能還沒觸及。

Pekka, my wider question would be on the operating model.

Pekka，我更廣泛的問題是關於營運模式。

Both yourselves and peers have talked a lot about moving to software, more enterprise sales.

您自己和同行都談了很多關於轉向軟體、更多企業銷售的問題。

You have an extensive fabless chip design effort in NI.

您在 NI 進行了大量的無晶圓廠晶片設計工作。

But the gross margin profile of the business that we see, excluding tech is still stopped in the sort of mid-30s.

但我們看到，不包括科技在內，該業務的毛利率仍停留在 30 多歲左右。

What is it about product pricing or your cost structure where Nokia, it can start showing the kind of margins profile, let's say, 50% or 60% gross margin and higher operating margins that the software and fabless chip design would imply your business model should be showing?

產品定價或您的成本結構是什麼？率正在展示？

So that's a very good question.

這是一個非常好的問題。

And we have some examples in our portfolio where we are getting to that type of margins already today.

我們的投資組合中有一些例子，今天我們已經達到了這種利潤率。

But when it comes to large-scale infrastructure project margins there, that's where the drag has really been.

但當談到大規模基礎設施項目的利潤時，這才是真正的阻力。

I mean, a key part of the answer is that we need to move more and more value to software.

我的意思是，答案的關鍵部分是我們需要將越來越多的價值轉移到軟體上。

We need to move to cloud.

我們需要遷移到雲端。

We need to move to software as service models gradually in all our business.

我們需要在所有業務中逐步轉向軟體即服務模式。

Of course, first, in CNS and then gradually also in the other businesses.

當然，首先是中樞神經系統，然後逐漸擴展到其他業務。

That's one part of the answer.

這是答案的一部分。

Then the other part of the answer is that despite the importance of software, we continue to believe that the importance of silicon continues to be extremely important and domain-specific compute, as we are seeing in NI as we are seeing in cloud will be extremely important going forward also in networks.

那麼答案的另一部分是，儘管軟體很重要，但我們仍然相信晶片的重要性仍然非常重要，並且特定於領域的計算，正如我們在NI 中看到的，就像我們在雲端中看到的那樣，將非常重要。

So the stronger we are in silicon, the stronger IPR we have in the main specific compute for things like L1 processing and radio, packet forwarding in routing and so on, the stronger potential we have for margins.

因此，我們在晶片方面越強大，我們在 L1 處理和無線電、路由中的資料包轉送等主要特定運算方面擁有的 IPR 就越強，我們的利潤潛力就越大。

Then another part of the answer is that this has to do with the general kind of reduction of the importance of the dependency of large CSPs.

答案的另一部分是，這與大型 CSP 依賴性重要性的普遍降低有關。

There are other segments where the margin profiles by their very nature are better.

還有其他細分市場的利潤狀況本質上較好。

There are enterprise segments where that is clearly the case.

有些企業部門的情況顯然就是這樣。

And then gradually also the defense sector.

然後逐漸也進入國防部門。

I mean that is a sector where there is significantly better margin profile potential compared to large-scale system projects with CSPs.

我的意思是，與採用 CSP 的大型系統專案相比，該行業的利潤率潛力明顯更高。

The challenge in the whole margin discussion is really large-scale system projects with CSPs where there is a specification coming from somewhere, and then the CSPs make you and your competitors compete on price.

整個利潤率討論中的挑戰實際上是具有 CSP 的大型系統項目，其中有來自某個地方的規範，然後 CSP 讓您和您的競爭對手在價格上競爭。

We need to reduce our relative dependency on that type of projects alone.

我們需要減少對此類項目的相對依賴。

Okay.

好的。

And then a quick -- very quick follow-up on IPR and tech.

然後是關於智慧財產權和技術的快速、非常快速的後續行動。

I mean we've heard Jenny talk about non-smartphone IPR deals and autos and consumer and so forth.

我的意思是，我們聽到珍妮談論非智慧型手機智慧財產權交易、汽車和消費者等等。

But we don't really see the run rate moving up.

但我們並沒有真正看到運行率上升。

Maybe, Marco, do you want to answer that?

也許，Marco，你想回答這個問題嗎？

Are these deals simply not yet materializing into real income?

這些交易是否還沒有轉化為實際收入？

Or is there something in the pipeline that we can look for where that super high-margin tech revenue starts to accelerate a little bit?

或者我們可以尋找一些可以讓超高利潤科技收入開始加速成長的東西？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

We were very pleased to sign the first video streaming deal in quarter two.

我們非常高興在第二季度簽署了第一份視訊串流協議。

And this is definitely an area that we believe that this could be a good opportunity for Nokia going forward as well.

我們相信這絕對是諾基亞未來發展的一個好機會。

If you look in December, we gave you a run rate as well.

如果您查看 12 月的情況，我們也會為您提供運行率。

We said that on the new growth areas, the run rate was EUR150 million.

我們說過，在新的成長領域，運作率為1.5億歐元。

And of course, there is something we are following quite carefully, and ambition is that we will continue to gain traction in these new areas.

當然，我們正在非常仔細地專注於一些事情，我們的目標是繼續在這些新領域中獲得牽引力。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。

I would like to remind you that during the call today, we've made a number of forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.

我想提醒您，在今天的電話會議中，我們做了一些涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性聲明。

Actual results may therefore differ materially from the results currently expected.

因此，實際結果可能與目前預期的結果有重大差異。

Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors.

可能導致這種差異的因素既可以是外部因素，也可以是內部營運因素。

We have identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

我們已在 20-F 表格年度報告的風險因素部分中識別出此類風險，該表格可在我們的投資者關係網站上取得。

Thank you all for joining us today.

感謝大家今天加入我們。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。