艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2013 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the ASML 2013 third-quarter conference call on October 16, 2013. Throughout today's introduction, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After ASML's instructions, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. (Operator Instructions).

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加2013年10月16日ASML 2013年第三季電話會議。在今天的介紹過程中，所有參與者將處於只聽模式。在 ASML 的指導之後，將有機會提問。（操作員指令）。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Craig DeYoung. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想將會議交給 Craig DeYoung 先生。先生，請繼續。

Thank you, Sala, and good afternoon and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Craig DeYoung, Vice President of Investor Relations at ASML. Joining me today from the ASML headquarters here in Veldhoven, The Netherlands, is Mr. Peter Wennink, ASML's CEO.

謝謝您，薩拉。女士們、先生們，下午好，早安。我是 ASML 投資人關係副總裁 Craig DeYoung。今天與我一起在荷蘭費爾德霍芬的 ASML 總部出席會議的還有 ASML 執行長 Peter Wennink 先生。

The subject of today's call, of course, is ASML's third-quarter 2013 results. This call will be broadcast live over the Internet at www.asml.com, and a replay will be available on our website for approximately 90 days.

今天電話會議的主題當然是 ASML 2013 年第三季的業績。此次電話會議將透過網路在 www.asml.com 上進行現場直播，重播將在我們的網站上提供約 90 天。

Now before we begin, I would like to caution listeners that comments made during this conference call by management will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release and presentation found both on our website at www.asml.com and in ASML's annual report on Form 20-F and other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒聽眾，管理階層在本次電話會議中發表的評論將包括聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述涉及重大風險和不確定性。有關風險因素的討論，我建議您查看今天的新聞稿和簡報中包含的安全港聲明，該聲明可在我們的網站 www.asml.com 以及 ASML 的 20-F 表年度報告和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中找到。

As always, the length of the call will be 60 minutes, and now I would like to turn the call over to to Peter Wennink for a brief introduction.

像往常一樣，通話時間為 60 分鐘，現在我想將通話交給 Peter Wennink 進行簡短介紹。

Thank you, Craig, and welcome to everyone. I would like to take first a few minutes at the beginning of our call to provide an overview and some commentary on our third-quarter results, our business outlook and our product strategy going forward.

謝謝你，克雷格，歡迎大家。在電話會議開始時，我想先花幾分鐘時間概述並評論我們第三季的業績、業務前景和未來的產品策略。

The third-quarter results came in very much as guided and were largely driven by foundry sales at 60% with memory system sales following at 40% of total system sales. The quarter shipments were, again, highly skewed towards emerging systems at 88% of total system sales, driving the ASP of all systems sold in the third quarter to a record high of EUR28.2 million versus EUR24.1 million in the second quarter.

第三季的業績與預期基本一致，主要受代工銷售額（佔 60%）和記憶體系統銷售額（佔 40%）的推動。本季出貨量再次高度偏向新興系統，佔總系統銷售額的 88%，推動第三季銷售的所有系統的平均銷售價格達到創紀錄的 2,820 萬歐元，而第二季為 2,410 萬歐元。

Service and field option sales grew significantly to close to EUR360 million, now including three months of Cymer service sales, as well as higher performance-enhancing [fuel] option sales.

服務和現場選項銷售額大幅成長至接近 3.6 億歐元，現在包括三個月的 Cymer 服務銷售額，以及更高的性能增強型 [燃料] 選項銷售額。

Third-quarter bookings came in at EUR1.4 billion for 51 systems excluding EUV the unique with booked ASPs at around the EUR27.7 million, impacted again by a high percentage of immersion systems with relative strength in all sectors.

第三季度，51 個系統（不包括 EUV）的預訂金額為 14 億歐元，獨特的預訂平均銷售價格約為 2,770 萬歐元，再次受到各行業相對實力較強的浸入式系統所佔比例較高的影響。

Our system order backlog at the end of Q3 grew further to EUR1.8 billion with total systems growing to 59 systems, excluding the EUV.

截至第三季末，我們的系統訂單積壓進一步成長至 18 億歐元，不包括 EUV，系統總數成長至 59 個。

The backlog profile at quarter's end is nicely balanced between all major sectors driven by increased memory and IDM bookings.

在記憶體和 IDM 預訂量增加的推動下，季度末各主要部門的積壓情況實現了良好平衡。

As a reminder, we are now guiding the combined ASML and Cymer businesses as one business. For Q4 we expect total sales to be at a record high of about EUR1.8 billion with a gross margin between 43% and 44%, including an impact for noncash purchase price accounting adjustments related to the Cymer acquisition without which our gross margin would have been about 1.6% higher. This short-term impact caused by the noncash purchase price accounting adjustments will cease after Q4.

提醒一下，我們現在將合併後的 ASML 和 Cymer 業務作為一項業務來指導。對於第四季度，我們預計總銷售額將達到創紀錄的約 18 億歐元，毛利率在 43% 至 44% 之間，其中包括與 Cymer 收購相關的非現金購買價格會計調整的影響，如果沒有這些調整，我們的毛利率將高出約 1.6%。非現金購買價格會計調整造成的短期影響將在第四季後停止。

In the fourth quarter, we expect to recognize revenue for one of the three EUV systems that we expect to ship this year. The first series of such systems will not contribute to profit due to the low utilization of our EUV manufacturing infrastructure, early learning curve costs in our supply chain, and directly resulting from the Cymer acquisition, the cost of the liability to upgrade the first 11 EUV sources in the field, which cost is now assumed by ASML.

在第四季度，我們預計將確認今年預計出貨的三套 EUV 系統之一的收入。由於我們的 EUV 製造基礎設施利用率低、供應鏈早期學習曲線成本高，以及直接由於收購 Cymer 而導致的升級該領域前 11 個 EUV 源的責任成本（該成本現在由 ASML 承擔），首批此類系統將不會帶來利潤。

Excluding the one NXE3300B, the Q4 gross margin would also be about 1.6% higher.

不包括 NXE3300B，第四季的毛利率也將高出約 1.6%。

Combined R&D for the quarter will be about EUR255 million and other income, which, again, consists of contributions from participants of the customer co-investment program of EUR17 million. Combined SG&A is, again, expected about EUR90 million, including EUR10 million of final restructuring charges not occurring after Q4.

本季的綜合研發費用約為 2.55 億歐元，其他收入也包括來自客戶共同投資計畫參與者的 1,700 萬歐元貢獻。預計合併銷售、一般及行政費用約為 9,000 萬歐元，其中包括第四季後未發生的 1,000 萬歐元最終重組費用。

As to our business status, foundry customers are demonstrating sustained litho system requirements and continue with aggressive deliveries in Q4 for volume ramp of the 20- to 16- or 14-nanometer combined nodes.

就我們的業務狀況而言，代工客戶正在展示持續的光刻系統要求，並在第四季度繼續積極交付，以滿足 20 奈米至 16 奈米或 14 奈米組合節點的產量成長。

In addition, we have seen healthy order patterns from a broad base of DRAM makers, mostly for technology upgrades due to what appears to be strong demand for mobile DRAM.

此外，我們看到來自眾多 DRAM 製造商的健康訂單模式，主要是由於對行動 DRAM 的強勁需求而進行技術升級。

We are also now seeing the previously anticipated NAND orders for fab capacity additions that had been planned for some time. Deliveries will begin in this quarter and will continue into the first half of 2014. This quarter's order strength, along with expected continued strength in Q4, gives us good visibility into the first half of 2014. Based on these indications, we believe that sales levels in the first half of 2014 will be similar to those of the second half of 2013, both excluding EUV.

我們現在也看到了先前預期的 NAND 晶圓廠產能增加訂單，這些訂單已經規劃了一段時間。交付將於本季開始，並持續到 2014 年上半年。本季的訂單強勁，加上預計第四季將繼續保持強勁勢頭，讓我們對 2014 年上半年的前景有了清晰的認識。基於這些跡象，我們認為 2014 年上半年的銷售水準將與 2013 年下半年相似，均不包括 EUV。

We see growing demand for our holistic lithography YieldStar metrology solutions and expect that our combined holistic lithography product sales to grow towards 10% of sales. We have shipped just over 100 systems since the product introduction. These metrology systems generate data for our holistic lithography products that control overlay, CD and focus for the most advanced and complex process nodes of our customers.

我們看到對我們的整體光刻 YieldStar 計量解決方案的需求不斷增長，並預計我們的綜合整體光刻產品銷售額將增長至 10%。自產品推出以來，我們已經出貨了 100 多套系統。這些計量系統為我們的整體光刻產品產生數據，用於控制客戶最先進和最複雜的製程節點的覆蓋、CD 和焦點。

EUV system integration work continues to progress steadily with source and integrated systems stability now being the main medium-term focus in support of our current 2013 and 2014 shipment plans. We now expect shipments of three NXE3300B systems this year with the first systems in the process of shipment and installation at customer sites.

EUV 系統整合工作繼續穩步推進，源和整合系統的穩定性目前成為主要的中期重點，以支援我們目前的 2013 年和 2014 年出貨計畫。我們預計今年將出貨三套 NXE3300B 系統，其中首批系統正在出貨並安裝至客戶現場。

In the fourth quarter, we expect to recognize revenue for one NXE3300B system. The delay of revenue recognition for two EUV systems to early 2014 was caused by the delayed delivery and qualification of some system components. Despite a lower-than-planned revenue recognition of the EUV systems, we are still able to meet our previously guided 2013 revenues of up to EUR5.2 billion due to the underlying strength of our non-EUV business as mentioned earlier.

在第四季度，我們預計將確認一套 NXE3300B 系統的收入。兩組 EUV 系統的收入確認被延遲至 2014 年初，原因是部分系統組件的交付和鑑定被延遲。儘管 EUV 系統的收入確認低於計劃，但由於我們之前提到的非 EUV 業務的潛在實力，我們仍然能夠實現先前指導的 2013 年收入，即高達 52 億歐元。

In last quarter's conference call, we discussed the Company's trajectory, which is based on the execution around the very significant R&D investment from our technology leadership. Execution of the strategy in pursuit of continued cost effective shrink for our customers supports the continuation of Moore's Law and involves four pillars.

在上個季度的電話會議中，我們討論了公司的發展軌跡，該軌跡基於我們技術領導層對研發的重大投資的執行。為客戶追求持續成本效益縮小的策略的實施支持了摩爾定律的延續，並涉及四大支柱。

First, it is the continued significant performance improvements of our current XT and NXT architectures, which will enable the most cost-effective, leading edge imaging solutions addressing imaging complexity over the 20-, 16- to 14-nanometer nodes and related noted pass patterning strategies.

首先，我們目前的 XT 和 NXT 架構的性能持續顯著提升，這將實現最具成本效益、最前沿的成像解決方案，解決 20、16 到 14 奈米節點的成像複雜性以及相關的已知通道圖案化策略。

Secondly, the buildup of our application products enabling and differentiating further our NXE products in support of sub-20 nanometer process control challenges, many of them related to aforementioned multi-pass patterning strategies.

其次，我們應用產品的累積使我們的 NXE 產品能夠應對並進一步區分 20 奈米以下製程控制挑戰，其中許多挑戰與前面提到的多通道圖案化策略有關。

Third, the timely introduction of EUV, which is the next generation of litho technology necessary to enable continued [dice rings] in accordance with Moore's Law, thus producing large cost reduction power savings and further device performance improvements.

第三，及時引入EUV，這是下一代光刻技術，能夠讓[骰子環]繼續按照摩爾定律發展，從而大幅降低成本、節省能源，並進一步提高設備性能。

And fourth, the capability to ensure cost effectively the next wafer size, 450 milliliter, when the industry requires it.

第四，當產業需要時，能夠以經濟高效的方式確保生產下一個晶圓尺寸 450 毫升。

We have begun delivering our new NXT1970 in support of our customer needs for multi-pass patterning at advanced logic nodes. This machine maintains world-leading performance of 250 wafers per hour with overlay achievements at less than 2 nanometer, along with a suite of application process control product packages being adopted in full at a leading foundry logic device manufacturer. By providing these capabilities, we will benefit from the current semiconductor process complexities for 20-nanometer logic and DRAM and from the added complexity of inserting FinFET transistors at this pitch.

我們已經開始提供新的 NXT1970，以滿足客戶對高階邏輯節點多通道圖案化的需求。機台維持全球領先的每小時250片晶圓的生產性能，套刻精度達到2奈米以內，配套的全套應用製程控制產品包已被某領先的代工邏輯元件廠商全面採用。透過提供這些功能，我們將受益於目前 20 奈米邏輯和 DRAM 的半導體製程複雜性，以及在此間距插入 FinFET 電晶體的額外複雜性。

The complexity of vertical NAND also requires best available overlay and focus capability and will further more require a significant number of immersion systems as NAND chip volumes will grow.

垂直 NAND 的複雜性也要求最佳的可用覆蓋和聚焦能力，並且隨著 NAND 晶片體積的增長，還需要大量的浸沒系統。

Regarding EUV, light sources for our production were the NXE3300B scanners are being integrated for automated and reliable productivity at customer development fabs. We remain on target to provide 70 wafers per hour performance next year upgradable to 125 wafers per hour in 2015.

關於 EUV，我們生產的光源是 NXE3300B 掃描儀，它們被整合到客戶開發工廠中，以實現自動化和可靠的生產力。我們仍將以明年每小時 70 片晶圓的性能為目標，到 2015 年可升級到每小時 125 片晶圓。

We are now also fully engaged in planning discussions on EUV insertion with logic customers who are seeking the most cost-effective and lowest risk lithography solutions for the next generation product processes. We have learned from very recent discussions with leading logic customers that they have succeeded to develop two lithography introduction strategies for the 10 nanometer node. They will either use a very intensive, immersion-centric approach or an EUV-centric approach for the 10-nanometer critical layers.

我們現在也正與邏輯客戶就 EUV 插入進行全面規劃討論，這些客戶正在為下一代產品製程尋求最具成本效益和最低風險的光刻解決方案。我們從最近與領先邏輯客戶的討論中了解到，他們已經成功為 10 奈米節點開發了兩種光刻引入策略。對於 10 奈米關鍵層，他們要么採用非常密集的、以浸入為中心的方法，要么採用以 EUV 為中心的方法。

This successful development of a double litho strategy approach will allow our logic customers to disclose designed rules to their customers in early 2014 for the next node and to begin this next node development on known, lower-risk immersion-based processes, while at the same time closely monitoring EUV performance improvements for potential layer-by-layer insertion when those improvements become available throughout the first half of 2014. This allows an extra 6 to 9 months for a final decision on the EUV introduction strategy through the second half of 2014, instead of the end of 2013 as originally planned.

雙重光刻策略方法的成功開發將使我們的邏輯客戶能夠在 2014 年初向他們的客戶披露下一個節點的設計規則，並開始在已知的、低風險的浸沒式製程上進行下一個節點的開發，同時密切監測 EUV 性能改進，以便在 2014 年上半年這些改進可用時進行潛在的逐層插入。這使得 EUV 引入策略的最終決策時間可以延長 6 到 9 個月，即在 2014 年下半年，而不是原計劃的 2013 年底。

Since the benefits of EUV are clearly understood, and any future node will surely require a significant amount of EUV, customers are indicating that they are likely to introduce EUV as soon as possible in order to gain experience in the full industrialization of EUV into manufacturing.

由於 EUV 的優勢已被人們清楚地認識到，並且任何未來的節點都必定需要大量的 EUV，因此客戶表示他們可能會盡快引入 EUV，以便獲得 EUV 全面工業化應用於製造業的經驗。

And as mentioned in the previous quarter, the most likely implementation scenarios for EUV appear to be Phase 1 in foundry logic; one or two layers of EUV for the 10-nanometer node could deliver tighter shrink, better yields and shorter cycle times. With this, we estimate first phase base amount for approximately 12 to 15 EUV units in 2015. In this scenario, a significant number of immersion tools will be additionally required for those critical layers not handled by EUV.

如同上一季所提到的，EUV 最有可能的實施方案似乎是代工邏輯中的第 1 階段；10 奈米節點的一層或兩層 EUV 可以實現更緊密的收縮、更好的產量和更短的週期時間。據此我們預估2015年第一階段的基礎數量約為12至15台EUV。在這種情況下，對於那些無法透過 EUV 處理的關鍵層，還需要大量浸沒工具。

Then, Phase 2, when the throughput levels of the current road map are achieved, then more EUV layers in foundry logic will deliver additional process control yield, cycle time, and cost savings. Additionally up to 3 layers in DRAM will be supported with these throughput levels, and we would then expect to ship our maximum EUV capacity of 25 to 30 units in 2015.

然後，在第二階段，當達到目前路線圖的吞吐量水準時，代工廠邏輯中的更多 EUV 層將提供額外的製程控制產量、週期時間和成本節省。此外，這些吞吐量水準將支援高達 3 層樓的 DRAM，我們預計 2015 年 EUV 的最大出貨量將達到 25 至 30 台。

Now based upon the EUV progress over the last few quarters, customers have intensified their cooperation with us allocating investments and resources focused on potential insertion of EUV in leading processes. We will continue to work closely with our customers to determine the most vital insertion points and timing such that a smooth transition to this necessary new technology is made.

現在，基於過去幾季 EUV 的進展，客戶已經加強了與我們的合作，分配投資和資源，專注於在領先流程中潛在地引入 EUV。我們將繼續與客戶密切合作，確定最重要的插入點和時機，以便順利過渡到這項必要的新技術。

And with that, I'd like to conclude, and I would like to take your questions.

以上就是我的演講的結束語，並願意回答大家的提問。

Thanks, Peter. Ladies and gentlemen, the operator will instruct you momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session. But beforehand, as I always do, I'd like to ask you to kindly limit your question to one with one short follow-up if necessary. And this will allow us to get as many callers in the time allotted as possible.

謝謝，彼得。女士們，先生們，接線生將立即向您介紹問答環節的規程。但在此之前，正如我一直以來所做的那樣，我想請您將問題限制為一個問題，並在必要時進行一個簡短的跟進。這將使我們能夠在規定時間內接到盡可能多的來電。

So now, Sala, could we have your instructions and then the first question, please?

那麼現在，薩拉，您可以給我們一些指示，然後問第一個問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions) John Pitzer, Credit Suisse.

（操作員指示）瑞士信貸的約翰‧皮策 (John Pitzer)。

Peter, my first question is just around the holistic lithography. You talked about a target toward 10%. When do you think you can achieve that? I guess help me understand the gross margin implication as you can attach more holistic lithography to the shipment sales?

彼得，我的第一個問題是關於整體光刻的。您談到了 10% 的目標。您認為什麼時候可以實現這個目標？我想請您幫我理解毛利率的含義，因為您可以將更全面的光刻技術附加到出貨量銷售中？

Okay. The 10% of sales we have a target to reach it by the end of next year. And as I mentioned earlier, you will find those sales back into the ASP increase of our NXE products and especially our leading edge products because they will be part of the configuration. And you will see it as part of the fuel option and system sales.

好的。我們的目標是到明年年底實現 10% 的銷售額。正如我之前提到的，您會發現這些銷售額回升到了我們 NXE 產品（尤其是我們的前沿產品）的平均售價成長中，因為它們將成為配置的一部分。您將看到它是燃料選項和系統銷售的一部分。

As to the gross margin, there's a lot of software in there, and you can already see in our guidance what it means for our core business. When you look at the Q4 guidance, we guide between 43% and 44% gross margin. We have this accounting issue on the purchase price accounting, which is a non-cash adjustment, which will go away at the end of Q4, which is a 1.6% impact. And EUV also has a 1.6% impact.

至於毛利率，其中有很多軟體，您已經可以在我們的指導中看到它對我們的核心業務意味著什麼。當您查看第四季度指引時，我們預計毛利率在 43% 至 44% 之間。我們在購買價格會計方面存在這個會計問題，這是一個非現金調整，它將在第四季度末消失，影響率為 1.6%。而EUV也有1.6%的影響。

So when you carve out our core business, which is what the Company is today, then you have a 3.2% impact in Q4. If you add that back to the 43%, 44%, we are between 46% and 47% margin, which, as you know, is something we have never seen before. And that is for a part driven by the fact that those application products, which are increasingly required and to address the process complexity at the 20 nanometer node, that is what is driving the gross margin up.

因此，當你剝離我們的核心業務（也就是公司現在的業務）時，你將對第四季產生 3.2% 的影響。如果將其添加到 43% 和 44% 中，我們的利潤率就在 46% 到 47% 之間，如你所知，這是我們以前從未見過的。部分原因是這些應用產品的需求日益增加，並解決了 20 奈米節點的製程複雜性，從而推動了毛利率的上升。

So there are, in short, significantly above the average corporate gross margins and help to stimulate the gross margin of our core business.

所以總而言之，我們的毛利率明顯高於企業平均水平，有助於刺激我們主要業務的毛利率。

Very helpful. Peter, as my follow-on, can we just drill into the gross margin expectations on the EUV systems? How should we think about that for next year, and then more importantly, how do gross margin scale as you get more volume and get up the learning curve?

非常有幫助。彼得，作為我的後續問題，我們能否深入了解 EUV 系統的毛利率預期？我們該如何考慮明年的問題？更重要的是，隨著銷售量的增加和學習曲線的提高，毛利率將如何擴大？

Your first question is on the gross margin for next year. Like we said in the introductory but also was mentioned in the press release and in the introductory statements, we have always assumed it is about a 20% gross margin on the systems that we are shipping as part of the first series.

您的第一個問題是關於明年的毛利率。就像我們在介紹中所說的那樣，但也在新聞稿和介紹聲明中提到，我們一直假設作為第一批產品的一部分，我們運送的系統的毛利率約為 20%。

With the acquisition of Cymer, we also assumed the cost of the upgrade liability that Cymer had towards ASML. That is now part of the ASML cost structure, and it is only the upgrade liability for the first 11 systems, which basically the 3300 systems being upgraded to the 3350. And those costs are now helping the EUV gross margins for the first 11 systems. So the first 11 systems do not contribute to profit. Afterwards, we will be at the gross profit targets that were mentioned before.

隨著Cymer的收購，我們也承擔了Cymer對ASML的升級責任成本。這是目前 ASML 成本結構的一部分，而且只是前 11 個系統的升級責任，基本上是 3300 系統升級到 3350。這些成本現在正在幫助前 11 個系統的 EUV 毛利率。因此前 11 個系統不產生利潤。之後我們就會達到之前提到的毛利目標。

So low 20s, that is our target after the first 11 systems. And then we need about two years to get to gross margin targets that are in the vicinity of our corporate average, which is not a change from what we said before.

所以低於 20 秒，這是我們在前 11 個系統之後的目標。然後，我們需要大約兩年的時間才能達到接近公司平均值的毛利率目標，這與我們之前所說的沒有任何變化。

Perfect. Very helpful. Thank you, Peter.

完美的。非常有幫助。謝謝你，彼得。

Francois Meunier.

弗朗索瓦·默尼耶。

I've got a question about the EUV laser source, and I think some people were expecting 80 watts maybe now, maybe later in the next few months, I mean especially your customers to take a decision how many EUV layers they would use in the next several years. So what is going on with the laser development at 80 watts, and is there any reason to believe that the number of EUV total shipments in 2017 will be less than 5 units a month?

我有一個關於 EUV 雷射源的問題，我認為有些人可能現在就期待 80 瓦，也可能在接下來的幾個月裡，我的意思是，尤其是你的客戶要決定在未來幾年內他們將使用多少個 EUV 層。那麼 80 瓦雷射的發展如何？是否有理由相信 2017 年 EUV 總出貨量將低於每月 5 台？

Okay. There are many questions in one question. So with respect to the EUV laser situation, there has been and there is a very singular focus on the wattage, which is basically where we are today is not the main focus that we have. We will get to 80 watts.

好的。一個問題裡面有很多問題。因此，就 EUV 雷射的情況而言，我們一直只關注瓦數，而這基本上不是我們今天關注的重點。我們將達到 80 瓦。

The issue that we currently have and is also shown as you mentioned in introductory -- your statement -- is that we have a pushout of two systems basically driven by the delayed receipt of components and the qualification of those components, which are very important to create a stable EUV source.

我們目前面臨的問題，正如您在介紹中提到的那樣——您的聲明——是，我們推出了兩個系統，這主要是由於組件的延遲接收和這些組件的鑑定，這對於創建穩定的 EUV 源非常重要。

So stability is our key focus today. And when we reach that stability and get those qualified components in our own time, which actually led to about a month delay in this quarter or the last quarter, that means that we will have -- actually -- somebody just asked something -- that actually means that we will, in that particular case, ship our units starting at the end of this year with about 3 units, and we're focusing, like I said before, on making the tools stable, and stability is our key focus.

因此，穩定是我們今天的重點。當我們達到穩定狀態並在自己的時間內獲得這些合格的組件時，這實際上導致本季度或上個季度延遲了大約一個月，這意味著我們將 - 實際上 - 有人剛剛問了一件事 - 這實際上意味著我們將在那種特殊情況下從今年年底開始運送我們的單位，大約有 3 個單位，就像我之前說過的，我們專注於使工具穩定，而穩定性是我們關注的穩定性。

Now our factory is in need of a stable and an upgradable source, and we're not going to ship anything to our customers that our customers will have difficulties running reliably in their development fabs. This is a decision we have taken together with customers, and you could argue that that is, indeed, less than what we expected 3 months ago, and it is frustrating to us also. And like I said, it more has to do with the modules and the components that we're getting to the supply chain than it has to do with any fundamental issues of reaching the 80 watts.

現在我們的工廠需要一個穩定且可升級的來源，我們不會向客戶運送任何會導致客戶在其開發工廠中難以可靠運作的產品。這是我們與客戶共同做出的決定，您可能會說，這確實比我們三個月前的預期要少，這也讓我們感到沮喪。正如我所說的，這與我們進入供應鏈的模組和組件有關，而不是與達到 80 瓦的任何根本問題有關。

We will reach the 80 watts. We will reach 70 waves per hour. We will reach 125 wafers per hour, but it is more the integration stage that we are currently in that is providing us these issues.

我們將達到80瓦。我們將達到每小時70波。我們將達到每小時 125 片晶圓的產量，但目前我們正處於整合階段，這給我們帶來了這些問題。

Now, this is being closely coordinated with customers. In the meantime, customers because we have been so closely coordinating this, customers have developed what I call in the introduction statements a double litho introduction strategy for the 10-nanometer node ,which effectively means that there is an immersion-centric node which is a solution that is focused on multiple-patterning immersion, and there is an EUV-centric node, which is focused on the introduction of EUV at those critical layers.

目前，我們正在與客戶密切協調此事。同時，由於我們一直在密切協調，客戶已經開發出我在介紹聲明中所說的針對 10 奈米節點的雙光刻引入策略，這實際上意味著有一個以浸沒為中心的節點，這是一個專注於多重圖案浸沒的解決方案，還有一個以 EUV 為中心的節點，專注於在那些關鍵層引入 EUV。

Now, the customers will start with this lower-risk immersion based, 10-nanometer node solution, but they will very closely monitor with us. Based on the stability of the machine, they will very closely watch what will happen in the first 6 months of 2014.

現在，客戶將開始採用這種基於低風險浸入式技術的 10 奈米節點解決方案，但他們將與我們密切監控。基於機器的穩定性，他們將密切關注2014年前6個月會發生什麼。

Why is that important? Because it effectively means that customers can present the design rules to their customers which are due at the beginning of 2014 in an either/or solution. So they have actually created additional time for us and them to work together so that the ultimate EUV decision, as you pointed out, was expected to be at the end of this year is now the second half of 2014. So we have created space and time to make sure that we will have a stable EUV source that will produce 70 wafers per hour in the course of 2014.

為什麼這很重要？因為這實際上意味著客戶可以以非此即彼的解決方案向他們的客戶展示將於 2014 年初到期的設計規則。因此，他們實際上為我們和他們合作創造了額外的時間，以便最終的 EUV 決定，正如您所指出的，預計在今年年底，現在是 2014 年下半年。因此，我們創造了空間和時間來確保我們擁有穩定的 EUV 來源，可在 2014 年內每小時生產 70 片晶圓。

Now, this is the situation where we are today. So in summary, the wattage is not the issue. The issue is currently getting in the right level qualified components in the supply chain that will make the new architecture, the mobile peoples architecture for the EUV source work. This is what we're focusing on today, which is, by the way, planned in this period. So in that sense, we are doing what we actually plan to do.

這就是我們今天的處境。所以總而言之，瓦數不是問題。目前的問題是讓供應鏈中的合格元件達到正確水平，從而使新的架構、即 EUV 來源的行動人員架構能夠發揮作用。這就是我們今天關注的重點，順便說一下，這也是在此期間計劃好的。從這個意義上來說，我們正在做我們計劃要做的事情。

We do not focus that much on the 80 watts. We are focused on reaching the 70 watts by the middle of next year, and due to the fact that our customers have developed this dual-litho strategy whereby they can present the 10-nanometer design rules to their customers, has created time and space for the development of the EUV solution at 70 wafers per hour.

我們不太關注 80 瓦。我們的目標是在明年年中達到 70 瓦的目標，由於我們的客戶已經開發了這種雙光刻策略，他們可以向他們的客戶展示 10 奈米的設計規則，這為以每小時 70 片晶圓的速度開發 EUV 解決方案創造了時間和空間。

And this is where we are today. I think it is a long answer, but it, in effect, tries to summarize where we are. I hope that is clear.

這就是我們今天的處境。我認為這是一個很長的答案，但實際上它試圖總結我們所處的位置。我希望這是清楚的。

Yes, thank you very much, Peter.

是的，非常感謝，彼得。

Good. Now on 2017, like I said in the introductory statement, there are, in fact, two phases. The first phase is based on the better shrink capabilities and the better yield opportunities. There is a first phase node you could say that encompasses about 12 to 15 units in 2015 that only addresses one or two layers for the 10-nanometer logic node.

好的。現在到了 2017 年，正如我在開場白中所說的那樣，實際上有兩個階段。第一階段是基於更好的收縮能力和更好的收益機會。可以說，2015 年的第一階段節點包含約 12 到 15 個單元，僅涉及 10 奈米邏輯節點的一層或兩層。

Now the second phase is whereby when we reach the throughput road map that we have currently on the road map, which is 70 wafers per hour in 2014 and [125] in 2015, when we reach that -- and like we've said, we have created with our customers time, more space and time to get there by the middle of 2014 -- then more layers will be adopted on EUV, and also DRAM at 60 nanometer will come into play. That will mean that we meet our full 25 to 30 unit capacity in 2015.

現在第二階段是，當我們達到目前路線圖上的吞吐量路線圖時，即 2014 年每小時 70 片晶圓，2015 年每小時 [125] 片晶圓，當我們達到這一目標時 — — 就像我們已經說過的，我們已經與客戶一起創造了時間、更多的空間和時間，以便在 2014 年中期實現這一點也將發揮作用。這意味著我們在 2015 年將達到 25 至 30 個單位的全部產能。

So when that happens, then 2016 and 2017 are as earlier guided, but like I said, this first phase needs to happen first. And when we execute on the throughput road map, there will be a second phase leading us to the 25, 30 units and the 50 to 60 units potential for 2016 and 2017.

因此，當這種情況發生時，2016 年和 2017 年將按照先前的指導進行，但就像我說的，第一階段需要先發生。當我們執行吞吐量路線圖時，將會進入第二階段，使我們在 2016 年和 2017 年達到 25、30 個單位以及 50 至 60 個單位的潛力。

So the first half of 2014 developments and the coordination with our customers will drive that change and will drive their choices. So that will be particularly important over the next 6 to 9 months.

因此，2014 年上半年的發展以及與客戶的協調將推動這項變更並影響他們的選擇。因此，這在未來 6 到 9 個月內尤其重要。

Is that clear, Francois?

明白了嗎，弗朗索瓦？

Yes, that was very clear. Thank you, Peter. Thanks for the insight.

是的，非常清楚。謝謝你，彼得。謝謝你的見解。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

邁赫迪·胡賽尼（Mehdi Hosseini），SIG。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mehdi, Hello? Operator, are you there?

邁赫迪，你好？接線員，您在嗎？

I'm just trying to locate the speaker -- the person involved in the question. One moment. I'm just going to go on to the next question.

我只是想找到發言者——涉及該問題的人。請稍等。我要繼續回答下一個問題。

Timothy Arcuri, Cowen and Company.

提摩西·阿庫裡，考恩公司。

Peter, I just wanted to ask a question on the answer that you just gave. So on 80 watts, we are pushing that out by maybe a month or so just due to the ability to get the components from the supply chain. But you had previously said that it would take you two years to upgrade to 250 watts, which was implying a 2016 for that. Now you sound more confident actually in being able to get there within one year, which would imply 2015 to get to 250 watts. So maybe a little bit pushout in the near-term, but a little more confidence longer term.

彼得，我只是想針對你剛才給的答案問一個問題。因此，對於 80 瓦，我們可能會將其推遲一個月左右，只是因為能夠從供應鏈中獲取零件。但您之前曾說過，升級到 250 瓦需要兩年時間，這意味著要到 2016 年才能實現。現在您聽起來更有信心在一年內實現這一目標，這意味著 2015 年達到 250 瓦。因此，短期內可能會有一點延遲，但長期來看會更有信心。

I guess I'm wondering, a), is that the right lead, and b), what gives you the confidence in being able to pull in that longer-term target to get to 250 watts? Thanks.

我想知道，a) 這是正確的引導嗎？ b) 什麼讓您有信心達到 250 瓦的長期目標？謝謝。

Well, just to be clear, Tim, the 250 watts or 125 wafers per hour has always been on the roadmap for 2015. I don't think it is a pull-in. You are right with your comments on the 80 watts. It is basically our current focus on getting the right components and qualified components in which could lead to a 1- or 2-month delay. But it doesn't effectively has an impact on the throughput roadmap, which is 70 wafers per hour next year and 125 in 2015. And 125 wafers per hour is 250 watts. So I don't think there is a change or a pull-in. I might have misunderstood your question, Tim, so any comment?

好吧，提姆，需要明確的是，250 瓦或每小時 125 個晶圓一直是 2015 年的發展路線圖。我不認為這是一種吸引。您對 80 瓦的評論是正確的。我們目前的重點基本上是獲取正確的組件和合格的組件，這可能會導致 1 到 2 個月的延遲。但它不會對吞吐量路線圖產生有效影響，該路線圖明年的產量為每小時 70 片晶圓，2015 年為每小時 125 片晶圓。每小時生產 125 片晶圓，耗電量為 250 瓦。所以我不認為存在任何變化或拉動。提姆，我可能誤解了你的問題，有什麼評論嗎？

Okay. Great. Peter, just as a follow-up to that, you had been saying that in terms of your shipment plan, that although the rev rec is a bit pushed out from December into now March, you had been saying that your shipment plan would be to ship roughly 1 system per month next year. Can you update us on the shipment plan next year, just given this near-term pushout in rev rec?

好的。偉大的。彼得，作為後續問題，您曾說過，就您的出貨計劃而言，儘管 rev rec 從 12 月推遲到現在的 3 月，但您曾說過，您的出貨計劃是明年每月大約出貨 1 個系統。鑑於近期 rev rec 的延期，您能否向我們更新明年的出貨計畫？

Yes, I think the shipment plan for next year, the two systems that we ship, that we had to push to January of 2014, will basically be add-ons to what we ship next year. So next year we said about one per month.

是的，我認為明年的出貨計劃，我們出貨的兩套系統，我們必須推遲到 2014 年 1 月，基本上將是我們明年出貨的附加產品。所以明年我們說大約每個月一次。

Now these were, these two shipments were planned to ship this year, so there will be add-ons to 2014. So yes, between 12 and 14 units.

這兩批貨物計劃於今年發貨，因此 2014 年還會有附加發貨。是的，在 12 到 14 個單位之間。

Wonderful. Thanks so much.

精彩的。非常感謝。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

邁赫迪·胡賽尼（Mehdi Hosseini），SIG。

Thank you. I think Tim stepped on my line.

謝謝。我覺得蒂姆侵犯了我的權利。

Peter, going back to your comments on logic 20-nanometer and below, how do you describe the breadth of orders and magnitude of incoming orders in the second half of 2013 to what you were expecting, let's say, 3 to 6 months ago? And I have a follow-up.

彼得，回到您對 20 奈米及以下邏輯製程的評論，您如何描述 2013 年下半年訂單的廣度和數量，與 3 到 6 個月前的預期相比如何？我還有一個後續問題。

Just for clarification, Mehdi, you are referring specifically to the 20-nanometer logic area.

只是為了澄清一下，Mehdi，您具體指的是 20 奈米邏輯領域。

Yes.

是的。

That is actually as we expected. When we looked six months ago, I think the order intake on the logic is developing as we planned, which is also driven by the very clear roadmap that customers have presented us -- very clear in terms of the wafer capacity that they needed to add by the end of the year, and they are executing on this. So there is no change.

這實際上正如我們所預料的。當我們回顧六個月前的時候，我認為邏輯上的訂單量正在按照我們的計劃發展，這也是由客戶向我們展示的非常清晰的路線圖推動的——在年底前他們需要增加的晶圓產能方面非常明確，他們正在執行這一目標。所以沒有變化。

What has changed in terms of order intake for the second half of the year was memory, and clearly we anticipated the NAND capacity additions. But we are now also seeing requirements from DRAM customers. And I think that was different than what we saw six months ago. And I know it's a more extended answer than you asked for, but I think it best represents the order and the backlog situation.

下半年訂單量改變的是內存，顯然我們預期 NAND 產能會增加。但我們現在也看到了來自 DRAM 客戶的要求。我認為這與我們六個月前看到的情況不同。我知道這個答案比你要求的要詳細，但我認為它最能反映訂單和積壓情況。

I appreciate it. And then switching gears on EUV, I hear from some of your key customers that mask inspection and repair is one of the key bottleneck outside of the separate light source. How do you see that particular area developing? And worse comes to worse, would you actually step up and try to expedite the development of the light source required for mask inspection?

我很感激。然後轉換到 EUV，我從一些主要客戶那裡聽說，掩模檢查和修復是獨立光源之外的關鍵瓶頸之一。您如何看待該特定領域的發展？更糟的是，您是否真的會加緊努力並加快開發掩模檢查所需的光源？

Interesting questions and I will split them. The mask inspection and repairs, which is, in effect, the focus that customers are putting on this, is good news because it means that's -- and this is also how we feel it -- that they know that for an EUV infrastructure, you don't only need a lithography machine, you need more. It's not only a mask, it is also photoresist.

有趣的問題，我將對它們進行分析。掩模檢查和修復實際上是客戶關注的重點，這是個好消息，因為這意味著——這也是我們的感受——他們知道對於 EUV 基礎設施，你不僅需要一台光刻機，還需要更多。它不僅是個掩模，它還是光阻。

So yes, we have been in discussions with customers or at least they have shared with us their ideas of what needs to be done.

是的，我們一直在與客戶討論，或者至少他們與我們分享了他們需要做什麼的想法。

Now clearly we have seen increased activity in the equipment industry as it relates to mask inspections over the last, I would say, increased activity over the last six months, whereby we have also started discussions with partners in the industry and see where we can help.

現在，我們清楚地看到，過去六個月中，與口罩檢查相關的設備行業的活動有所增加，我想說，過去六個月中的活動有所增加，我們也開始與業內合作夥伴進行討論，看看我們可以在哪些方面提供幫助。

Now for volume production EUV, the mask inspection tool is not needed. You can do mask in especially basically using our litho scanner. It's very expensive. You basically check the mask on the wafer. That's what they will do in their preproduction, which basically means that mask inspection can be done. But ultimately when you go into volume production by 2017, you want to have a mask inspection tool by not using the very valuable time of your litho EUV scanner.

現在對於量產EUV來說，已經不再需要掩模檢測工具了。您可以使用我們的光刻掃描器進行遮罩製作，特別是基本製作。它非常昂貴。你基本上要檢查晶圓上的掩模。這就是他們在預生產中要做的事情，基本上意味著可以進行掩模檢查。但最終，當您在 2017 年投入大量生產時，您需要一個掩模檢測工具，而不會浪費光刻 EUV 掃描器的寶貴時間。

And so for the time being, it's not a major issue, but it is something that needs to be resolved by 2017. And that is where contacts are now intensified with customers but also with other players in the industry, and I think it will be done.

因此，就目前而言，這不是一個大問題，但它是需要在 2017 年之前解決的問題。這就是現在與客戶以及行業內其他參與者加強聯繫的地方，我認為這將會實現。

And your last question was on whether we could use AUV resource for --?

您的最後一個問題是，我們是否可以使用 AUV 資源來做——？

Which you actually tried to accelerate the development needed for the light source using mask inspection. But I see the light source for mask inspection being the major bottleneck in this area.

您實際上嘗試使用掩模檢查來加速光源所需的開發。但我認為掩模檢查的光源是該領域的主要瓶頸。

Yes, I mean -- we have not entered into any specific discussions on this subject. Clearly we have a lot of knowledge in this field. And I also think that in the discussions we will have over the next 12 to 24 months with partners in the industry and with our customers we will see how we can share and how the industry can benefit from our knowledge, and that will be a subject of discussions, you can rest assured. But that is something for the next 12 to 24 months.

是的，我的意思是——我們還沒有就這個問題進行任何具體的討論。顯然我們在這個領域擁有豐富的知識。我還認為，在未來 12 到 24 個月內，我們將與行業合作夥伴和客戶進行討論，看看我們如何分享以及行業如何從我們的知識中受益，這將是討論的主題，您可以放心。但這是未來 12 到 24 個月的事。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Gareth Jenkins, UBS.

瑞銀的加雷斯‧詹金斯。

Just a quick one on NAND capacity, if I could. I just wondered whether that is being driven by 3D from a customer in China, a large Chinese fab, or are there more than that one customer? And I just have a quick follow-up on an earlier question on gross margins on EUV afterwards. Thank you.

如果可以的話，我只想快速介紹一下 NAND 容量。我只是想知道，這是否是由中國客戶、大型中國晶圓廠的 3D 技術推動的，還是有多個客戶？之後，我想快速跟進一下之前關於 EUV 毛利率的問題。謝謝。

Okay, thanks. Yes, I think the Q3 bookings with 42% was memory. The largest part of the 43% is the NAND, part of which is, indeed, a specific project they you referred to. But there also other areas where we ship, so it is not exclusive at that particular project that you refer to.

好的，謝謝。是的，我認為第三季的預訂量有 42% 是記憶。43%中最大的部分是NAND，其中一部分確實是你提到的他們一個具體的項目。但是我們也向其他地區發貨，因此它並不僅限於您所提到的特定項目。

So on -- what was your question on --?

那麼——你的問題是什麼——？

Just wondered what the liabilities are predicated on and whether there's any possibility that the 20% gross margin that you see going forward is on a EUV at risk at all as certain criteria on that laser. It looks like the liability is very high in terms of user amounts.

只是想知道負債是基於什麼預測的，以及是否有可能由於該雷射的某些標準而導致 EUV 的未來 20% 毛利率面臨風險。從使用者數量來看，責任似乎非常高。

Yes, I think on the first 11 systems, when we upgrade from the 3300 to the 3350, we actually are now in a situation where we almost have to completely revamp the whole source. So you can say for the first 11 systems, we need two sources, which is, of course, not our plan going forward. When we move to the 3350, it will be the final EUV source, the final architecture. It is the MOPA PrePulse architecture.

是的，我認為在前 11 個系統上，當我們從 3300 升級到 3350 時，我們實際上現在處於幾乎必須徹底改造整個來源的情況。因此可以說，對於前 11 個系統，我們需要兩個來源，當然這不是我們未來的計劃。當我們轉向 3350 時，它將成為最終的 EUV 來源和最終的架構。它是 MOPA PrePulse 架構。

You might remember that we started the EUV source in what we call the normal mode, which is a different architecture, and now we need to upgrade to MOPA PrePulse. So from normal to MOPA PrePulse is not something which we are planning to do after system 11. So this is particularly high, but you could say, well, the first 11 systems unfortunately need two sources.

您可能還記得，我們​​在所謂的正常模式下啟動了 EUV 來源，這是一種不同的架構，現在我們需要升級到 MOPA PrePulse。因此，從正常狀態到 MOPA PrePulse 並不是我們計劃在系統 11 之後要做的事情。所以這個數字特別高，但你可以說，不幸的是，前 11 個系統需要兩個來源。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Simon Schafer, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的西蒙謝弗。

Peter, I wanted to come back to the DUV discussion. I guess one of the implications of EUV being so difficult and also one of your customers deciding to go dual track, am I right in saying that that actually increases the layer intensity and the litho intensity for DUV in the next 18 months or so? And then I have a quick follow-up on the same topic.

彼得，我想回到 DUV 討論。我想 EUV 如此困難的一個影響是，您的一位客戶決定採用雙軌過程，我這麼說對嗎？這實際上會在未來 18 個月左右增加 DUV 的層強度和光刻強度？然後我對同一主題進行了快速跟進。

The answer is yes. Yes, I will answer this a bit more broadly, but you are, indeed, correct. It means that if you go with this dual strategy, which actually the whole dual-litho strategy was developed to make sure that our customers can present a design rule package to their customers. And so they have an either/or strategy, which means that the either strategy, which is the DUV/EUV essentially immersion-centric strategy is a highly litho-intensive one because it has a few litho layers, which are highly critical ones.

答案是肯定的。是的，我會更廣泛地回答這個問題，但你確實是正確的。這意味著，如果你採用這種雙重策略，實際上整個雙光刻策略的開發都是為了確保我們的客戶能夠向他們的客戶提供設計規則包。因此他們採用非此即彼的策略，這意味著，無論哪種策略，即 DUV/EUV 本質上以浸沒為中心的策略，都是高度光刻密集的策略，因為它具有幾個光刻層，而這些層是非常關鍵的。

So yes, as a result of that strategy and being able to present a set of design goals that are either/or on 10 nanometer, yes, the consequence is that this will be more litho intensive.

所以是的，由於該策略，並且能夠提出一組要么在 10 奈米要么在 10 奈米的設計目標，結果是這將更加註重光刻。

Got it. And interesting that one of your customers describing that as a dual track down to the 10-nanometer node. But is dual-track even feasible for 7 nanometer, or are we going to be on a one-track mode for EUV only?

知道了。有趣的是，您的一位客戶將其描述為雙軌制，直至 10 奈米節點。但雙軌製程對於 7 奈米來說是否可行，還是我們只會採用 EUV 單軌製程模式？

Yes, I think on the 7 nanometer I think there is consensus with everybody that that is an EUV node only. And that is why I think in any case the Phase 1 approach that I mentioned will happen because this is difficult technology. If you do full immersion no EUV on 10 nanometer, then the learning curve will be almost vertical, which for 7 nanometer is a major issue.

是的，我認為在 7 奈米方面，我認為每個人都一致認為這只是一個 EUV 節點。這就是為什麼我認為無論如何我提到的第一階段方法都會實現，因為這是一項困難的技術。如果在 10 奈米上進行完全浸入式無 EUV，那麼學習曲線將幾乎是垂直的，這對於 7 奈米來說是一個主要問題。

So I believe that customers will go for a controlled EUV insertion in any case, despite the throughput, no matter what the throughput is. And if the throughput is what our roadmap says, then we clearly have an upside. So it is because of that reason that we need EUV at 7 nanometers. That is, I think, a driver for an EUV insertion at least a few nodes, a few layers at the 10-nanometer node.

因此我相信，無論吞吐量如何，客戶無論如何都會選擇受控的 EUV 插入。如果吞吐量如我們的路線圖所述，那麼我們顯然具有優勢。正是由於這個原因，我們需要 7 奈米的 EUV。我認為，這是 EUV 插入至少幾個節點、在 10 奈米節點插入幾層的驅動程式。

Great. Thanks, Peter.

偉大的。謝謝，彼得。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande。

Peter, firstly, I have a question on one of your responses earlier regarding giving your customers flexibility to decide how many layers of EUV they do by the end of 2014. Given that you are now delaying that decision for your customers today into 2014, will you have enough time if they tell you by the end of 2014 to ramp up if they were ready -- if you were already to go as such at the end of 2014, that you can do, say, 30, 40, systems or 30 systems in 2015 simply because they want to do additional layers? That is my first question. And then a second question I have on the service revenues.

彼得，首先，我對您之前的一個回答有一個疑問，關於讓您的客戶靈活地決定在 2014 年底之前要製作多少層 EUV。鑑於您現在將客戶的這一決定推遲到 2014 年，如果他們告訴您在 2014 年底準備好了，您是否有足夠的時間 - 如果您已經在 2014 年底這樣做了，那麼您可以在 2015 年做 30、40 個系統或 30 個系統，僅僅是因為他們想要做額外的層？這是我的第一個問題。我的第二個問題是關於服務收入。

Yes. I think with respect to one of your questions, we have not -- you could say it was not our decision to tell our customers, you have to delay your decision to the second half of 2014. It has been the transparent and open discussion that we have with them, whereby they said, we're going to develop this dual -- this double strategy. Which actually is good for them and it is good for us because they can present their customers with a solution, and we create time and space for the developments and the introduction of EUV.

是的。我認為關於您的一個問題，我們沒有——您可以說我們沒有決定告訴我們的客戶，您必須將您的決定推遲到 2014 年下半年。我們與他們進行了透明和公開的討論，他們表示，我們將制定這種雙重策略。這實際上對他們有利，對我們也有利，因為他們可以為他們的客戶提供解決方案，而我們為 EUV 的開發和引入創造了時間和空間。

Now when we reach those throughput levels and your question is, will you have the output capacity to move to 25 to 30 units. Now from an industrial capacity, yes, we do. From a supply chain point of view, there are only very, very few components -- and you can think about the optics, for instance -- that has a lead time that is a bit longer.

現在，當我們達到這些吞吐量等級時，您的問題是，您是否具有轉移到 25 到 30 個單位的輸出能力。從工業能力來看，是的，我們確實這麼做了。從供應鏈的角度來看，只有極少數組件（例如光學組件）的交貨時間會更長一些。

Now, lead times are coming down as we speak. So when that decision is taken up by the end of 2014, as you say, but in the second half, then we will be able when we know what our customer's decision is in the second half of 2014 to have an impact on our output in the second half of 2015.

現在，正如我們所說，交貨時間正在減少。因此，正如您所說，當我們在 2014 年底，也就是下半年做出這項決定時，當我們知道客戶在 2014 年下半年的決定時，我們將能夠對我們 2015 年下半年的產量產生影響。

And so we will be able to accelerate in 2015 because we will have the industrial capacity, i.e., we will have the factory; we will have the people; and we will potentially have to preorder one or two very critical components like the POBs, which are the projection optics boxes, which, given the opportunity, we will probably do. But we have time to take that position.

因此，我們將能夠在 2015 年加速發展，因為我們將擁有工業能力，即我們將擁有工廠；我們將擁有人民；我們可能需要預訂一兩個非常關鍵的組件，例如 POB（投影光學盒），如果有機會，我們可能會這樣做。但我們有時間採取這一立場。

So yes, we will be able to respond, but customers will not wait until the end of 2014. It will be in the second -- somewhere I would think somewhere in the second half.

所以是的，我們能夠做出回應，但客戶不會等到 2014 年底。它將在第二階段——我認為是在下半場的某個地方。

I actually saw your follow-up to this, Peter, because of the additional requirements of immersion for this dual track, are they going to order both sets of tools then? Because you don't need both sets of tools. If they were going to go, for instance, much more in terms of number of layers for EUV, then they will require less of immersion.

彼得，我確實看到了你對此的後續提問，由於這種雙軌制對沉浸式學習有額外的要求，那麼他們會訂購這兩套工具嗎？因為您不需要這兩套工具。例如，如果他們要增加 EUV 的層數，那麼他們需要的浸沒量就會減少。

Correct.

正確的。

So can you give -- this is going to make planning your production much more difficult, essentially.

所以你能給出——從本質上講，這將使你的生產規劃變得更加困難。

Yes, but if you look at -- if the problem is, can we follow with the immersion demand, that is less of an issue because the cycle times have come down significantly. So we could react within 6 to 9 months. And currently don't forget, we are also for the fourth quarter and the first two quarters of next year at pretty high output capacity. So that will not be an issue. We can respond on immersion.

是的，但是如果你看一下——如果問題是，我們能否滿足沉浸式需求，那麼這不是什麼大問題，因為週期時間已經顯著縮短了。所以我們可以在 6 到 9 個月內做出反應。目前別忘了，我們第四季和明年前兩季的產能也相當高。所以這不是問題。我們可以沉浸式地做出回應。

So if by the second half of 2014 they decide to go for a more, let's say, aggressive EUV scenario, we can react. If they don't do it and they need more immersion, we can also react. We actually have that capacity, and we create that internal capacity for driving the cycle time in the factory down, which we are doing as we speak.

因此，如果到 2014 年下半年他們決定採取更積極的 EUV 方案，我們就可以做出反應。如果他們不這樣做，並且需要更多的沉浸感，我們也可以做出反應。我們實際上擁有這種能力，我們創造了這種內部能力來縮短工廠的周期時間，我們現在正在這樣做。

So we have enough capacity for both scenarios.

所以我們有足夠的能力來應付這兩種情況。

Understood. And my follow-up question to you, Peter, would be on the services business. I mean you had EUR250 million of services in Q1 before the acquisition of Cymer.

明白了。彼得，我接下來的問題是關於服務業務的。我的意思是，在收購 Cymer 之前，你們在第一季的服務收入為 2.5 億歐元。

Now you are reporting EUR358 million. Part of that is, of course, Cymer in the services revenue. How much have you grown organically? Because this is where the holistic lithography, et cetera comes in. How much have you grown organically this year?

現在你們報告的是3.58億歐元。當然，其中一部分是 Cymer 的服務收入。您的有機種植面積增加了多少？因為這就是整體光刻技術等發揮作用的地方。今年你的有機成長了多少？

Well, you can look at the historical Cymer numbers. So is is not a surprise that those numbers, those Cymer service numbers are close to EUR100 million. It is about EUR80 million to EUR90 million. And so the rest means that we do EUR360 million in Q3 if you take EUR80 million to EUR90 million off, which means we are at a peak in terms of our field options and service sales. And a big part of that has to do with the field options related to system announcements in the applications group.

好吧，你可以看看 Cymer 的歷史數字。因此，Cymer 服務數字接近 1 億歐元也就不足為奇了。約8000萬歐元至9000萬歐元。因此，剩下的意味著，如果扣除 8,000 萬至 9,000 萬歐元，我們在第三季的營收將達到 3.6 億歐元，這意味著我們的現場選項和服務銷售達到了頂峰。其中很大一部分與應用程式群組中與系統公告相關的欄位選項有關。

So yes, it is growing.

是的，它正在增長。

Excellent. Thank you.

出色的。謝謝。

Andrew Gardiner, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的安德魯·加德納。

I just had another question on EUV, I'm afraid, not to belabor the point too much. But just in terms of trying to draw the distinction between the delays that you have in delivering the 3300B tools this year and into early next year and the customer's decision around the actual production tools delivery in 2015 and 2016, clearly the two are somewhat linked, but there must be a distinction now. I'm just wondering if the reason the customers are now asking to delay the decision to the second half of next year is that because they've got less confidence in what you're able to do than perhaps you guys do? And clearly you are sounding very confident today. Or is it they just want to be able to get some of these R&D tools and play with them a bit more and understand the recipe a bit better and then have confidence in themselves that they are going to be able to deploy that at a certain number of layers?

我只是對 EUV 有另一個疑問，恐怕我不想多談論這一點。但是，如果試圖區分今年和明年年初 3300B 工具的交付延遲與客戶在 2015 年和 2016 年實際生產工具交付方面的決定，顯然兩者之間存在一定聯繫，但現在必須有所區別。我只是想知道，客戶現在要求將決定推遲到明年下半年的原因是否是因為他們對你們的能力缺乏信心？顯然您今天聽起來非常有自信。或者他們只是希望能夠獲得一些研發工具，並更多地使用它們，更好地理解配方，然後對自己有信心能夠在一定數量的層上部署它？

Just a bit more detail around how the customers are considering, it would be helpful. Thank you.

只要更詳細地了解客戶的考慮方式，就會很有幫助。謝謝。

Yes. I want to -- I'd like to correct one of your statements. If you say -- we did not request the customers to delay the decisions for the second half of 2014. This has been the result -- the customers have created this space for them also. Whereby they said, their problem was they need to present a set of design rules to their customers early 2014. Now if they only have one strategy, they need to take that position on litho in early 2014.

是的。我想——我想糾正你的一個說法。如果你說——我們沒有要求客戶推遲 2014 年下半年的決定。結果是這樣的——顧客也為他們創造了這個空間。他們說，他們的問題是他們需要在 2014 年初向客戶展示一套設計規則。現在，如果他們只有一個策略，那麼他們需要在 2014 年初在光刻領域採取這一立場。

They created for themselves space and time because they also don't want to lose the opportunity of EUV. And I think EUV just presents them with very clear advantages and much tighter shrink, in yield, in the electrical capabilities of the device. So they need EUV.

他們為自己創造了空間和時間，因為他們也不想失去 EUV 的機會。我認為 EUV 為他們帶來了非常明顯的優勢，並且在產量和設備電氣性能方面具有更嚴格的縮減。所以他們需要 EUV。

What they have actually done is they have said, why don't we create a strategy whereby it is either a litho-centric -- sorry, an immersion-centric strategy or a EUV-centric strategy on the critical layers, thereby solving the problem for our customers early 2014 because it doesn't matter, either or. And we then create space and time to work with ASML and to work on the improvements with EUV, with respect to throughput, with respect to stability. So that when it is there, we can use EUV, which is our preferred way of going forward.

他們實際上所做的是，他們說，為什麼我們不創建一個策略，該策略要么以光刻為中心 - 對不起，是以浸沒為中心的策略，要么以關鍵層上的 EUV 為中心的策略，從而在 2014 年初為我們的客戶解決問題，因為無論哪種方式都沒關係。然後，我們創造空間和時間與 ASML 合作，並在吞吐量和穩定性方面致力於 EUV 的改進。因此，當它出現時，我們可以使用 EUV，這是我們未來首選的方式。

So it is not indirectly because of where we are, which we pushed it, but it's their decision to create this double strategy. And as a result of it, we create time and space to work with them, and this imminent decision is now basically pushed back 6 to 9 months. So this is how customers look at it today.

因此，這並不是因為我們所處的位置而間接推動的，而是他們決定制定這種雙重策略。因此，我們創造了時間和空間來與他們合作，而這個即將做出的決定現在基本上被推遲了 6 到 9 個月。這就是今天顧客的看法。

So the good news is that we have some more time. That is one. The other part of the good news is that they chose, again, how critically important EUV is for them, and they do not want to lose the opportunity. This is why they go through, let's be very honest, costly double development work to create a double-litho insertion strategy. This is what we meant when we say we have intensified the cooperation with our customers on this issue because we need to help them either through immersion DPV or through EUV. But clearly it's clear from what they are doing and what their focus is -- their focus is on EUV, and they like to create a situation where the likelihood of that happening is, of course, higher. That is what we are doing today.

好消息是我們還有更多時間。那是一個。另一個好消息是，他們再次選擇了 EUV 對他們來說有多重要，而且他們不想失去這個機會。這就是為什麼他們要經過昂貴的雙重開發工作來創建雙重光刻插入策略。這就是我們所說的我們在這個問題上加強與客戶的合作，因為我們需要透過浸入式DPV或EUV來幫助他們。但從他們所做的事情和關注點來看，很明顯他們的重點是 EUV，而且他們喜歡創造一種發生這種情況的可能性更高的情況。這就是我們今天正在做的事情。

So I don't know whether that answers your question --

所以我不知道這是否回答了你的問題——

Yes, it does. That is definitely clear. Thank you. And just related to that, is there -- can you just remind us of where your planning is for R&D next year both from a gross and a net perspective? Are there any changes as a result of how the development has tracked? You were talking about EUR1 billion last time we were on the call.

是的。這絕對是清楚的。謝謝。與此相關的是，您能否從總量和淨額的角度提醒我們您明年的研發計畫是什麼？隨著事態的發展，情況有什麼改變嗎？上次我們通話時您談到了 10 億歐元。

Yes, that is still the case. We have the EUR1 billion. What we will see is next year we have a slightly higher contribution from the [CCIB] partners. So that will show in our income, and as it relates to Intel, it will show in the gross margin. But gross, it will be about this EUR1 billion.

是的，現在仍然如此。我們有10億歐元。我們將看到，明年我們從[CCIB]合作夥伴那裡獲得的貢獻將會略有增加。這將體現在我們的收入中，就英特爾而言，它將體現在毛利率中。但總計約10億歐元。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Mahesh Sanganeria, RBC Capital Markets.

Mahesh Sanganeria，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Thank you. Just changing the tone a little bit, your backlog is evenly split between foundry and IDM and memory, and I would think that your revenue profile will be similar to your backlog for Q4. Since you have visibility in the first half of next year, can you give us some indication of how that distribution will look like in the first half of 2014 in IDM, foundry, and memory? Thank you.

謝謝。稍微改變一下語氣，您的積壓訂單在代工、IDM 和內存之間平均分配，我認為您的收入狀況將與第四季度的積壓訂單類似。既然您對明年上半年的情況有所了解，您能否向我們透露一下 2014 年上半年 IDM、代工和內存的分佈情況？謝謝。

Yes, I think I need to do that qualitatively, although on the fourth quarter, your assumption is that the fourth-quarter division already split in the revenue will be similar to the backlog is not entirely the case. We will have -- like I said, logic is 33%, but the logic shipments for the 20-nanometer node will still be pretty strong in the fourth quarter. So it is not going to be exactly as the backlog splits.

是的，我認為我需要從品質上做到這一點，儘管就第四季度而言，您的假設是第四季度各部門已經分拆的收入將與積壓訂單類似，但事實並非完全如此。正如我所說，邏輯佔 33%，但 20 奈米節點的邏輯出貨量在第四季仍將非常強勁。因此，它不會完全按照積壓的分割方式進行。

But the trends for the first half is that we believe that 20 nanometer will stay as strong as we've seen in the second half of 2013. Whereby the NAND shipments, which are basically capacity additions, will shift because of some of the new projects that have been announced and then will take tools starting Q4. So that will take an increasingly bigger part of our revenue.

但就上半年的趨勢而言，我們相信 20 納米將保持與 2013 年下半年一樣強勁。NAND 出貨量基本上是產能增加，但會因為一些新項目的宣布而發生變化，並將從第四季度開始採用工具。因此這將佔據我們收入的越來越大的一部分。

And on top of that, we are seeing the first DRAM orders coming in. And I do expect that in the first half of 2014, we will have also some additional shipments to DRAM customers.

除此之外，我們也看到了首批 DRAM 訂單的到來。我確實預計，2014 年上半年，我們也會向 DRAM 客戶額外出貨一些產品。

So looking at the total memory portion, I think the memory portion will grow as compared to what we have seen in Q3 and Q4 of this year. Whereby the total sales for the first half of 2014 as compared to the second half of 2013 will be about equal. But in the first half of next year, higher emphasis on the memory shipments.

因此，從總記憶體部分來看，我認為與今年第三季和第四季相比，記憶體部分將會成長。因此，2014 年上半年與 2013 年下半年的總銷售額將大致相等。但明年上半年，對記憶體出貨量的重視程度更高。

Okay. Thank you. That is very helpful. And one question on the EUV. You are shifting focus slightly from necessarily not going after the higher power, but more on the stability of the source and making production ability. What metrics should we be following to see the progress, how we are doing on stability of the overall tool in the source?

好的。謝謝。這非常有幫助。還有一個關於 EUV 的問題。您的關注點略有轉變，不再僅僅追求更高的功率，而是更專注於電源的穩定性和生產能力。我們應該遵循哪些指標來了解進展情況，以及我們在源頭上整體工具的穩定性做得如何？

Yes, I think first I'd like to correct you, if I may. It is not that we're not going after the higher power because we are. We are on track to do the 125 watts, which is 70 wafers per hour and the 250 watts. That has not changed.

是的，如果可以的話，我想先糾正你一下。這並不是說我們不追求更高的權力，因為我們在追求。我們正按計畫生產 125 瓦晶圓，即每小時 70 片晶圓，以及 250 瓦晶圓。這一點沒有改變。

The only issue is that short term we are more focused on the stability of the machine given the fact that we have the delays as experienced, and it is just frustrating for us as it is for you, and that we need to recoup over the next couple of months. And we will.

唯一的問題是，考慮到我們經歷過的延誤，短期內我們更關注機器的穩定性，這對我們和您來說都令人沮喪，我們需要在接下來的幾個月內恢復。我們會的。

So it is not that we're not going after the high power. It is just simply that the focus today is on the integration and the stability of that source.

所以，這並不是說我們不追求高權力。只是今天的重點是該來源的整合和穩定性。

Now the metrics that you should be looking for, like I started off, we have had the singular focus on the wattage, which we created, to be honest, and I think there is much more than just wattage. Because there is the feature size; there is the cleanliness; there is the combination qual control; there is the metrology qual control; there is the closed loop. There's a lot of issues that are surrounding the EUV source, which all make different integrated source. Which also translates back to customers, which is not only wafers per hour, but it is imaging feature size. It is imaging quality. It is overlay requirements. It is all these things that all add to the EUV solution.

現在，您應該尋找的指標，就像我開始時一樣，我們只關注我們創建的瓦數，老實說，我認為不僅僅是瓦數。因為有特徵尺寸；有清潔；有組合品質控制；有計量品質控制；有一個閉環。圍繞 EUV 源存在著許多問題，這些問題都導致了不同的整合源。這也轉化為客戶，這不僅是每小時的晶圓數量，而且是成像特徵尺寸。就是成像品質。這是覆蓋要求。所有這些都為 EUV 解決方案增添了助力。

Now I can make a grid where all these things I just mentioned are in, and it would make it highly complex for you. The message that I am giving you is, effectively, we have been teaching you wattage like this was the only thing, which it isn't. So don't use wattage as a metric going forward. We will do wafers per hour in the end. That is what customers want. This is what drives the economics of EUV, and this is what we should focus on. And we have made it probably overly complex by focusing on the wattage, which is not the only thing. And I hope that if I can give you some help, then I would say the only metric that really counts is the wafers per hour with the stability tool that gives at least an availability of a certain percentage for our customers to introduce into the preproduction of their next nodes. And I would start with wafers per hour, and we will inform you about wafers per hour when we reach those levels. And that is basically the roadmap. So let's keep the roadmap as the metric.

現在我可以製作一個網格，將我剛才提到的所有這些東西都放進去，這會讓它變得非常複雜。我要傳達的訊息是，實際上，我們一直在教你瓦數，好像這是唯一的東西，但事實並非如此。因此，以後不要再使用瓦數作為衡量標準。我們最終每小時將生產晶圓。這正是顧客想要的。這是推動 EUV 經濟的因素，也是我們應該關注的重點。而且，我們可能會因為關注瓦數而使它變得過於複雜，但瓦數並不是唯一因素。我希望如果我能給你一些幫助，那麼我想說真正重要的唯一指標是每小時使用穩定性工具的晶圓數量，該工具至少為我們的客戶提供一定比例的可用性，以便將其引入到下一個節點的預生產中。我將從每小時的晶圓產量開始，當我們達到這些水平時，我們會告知您每小時的晶圓產量。這就是基本路線圖。因此，讓我們以路線圖作為衡量標準。

Okay. Thank you very much. That's very helpful.

好的。非常感謝。這非常有幫助。

Didier Scemama.

迪迪埃·斯凱瑪瑪。

Peter, I'd just like to discuss with you the worst-case scenario. So we saw a doubling of litho intensity from 28 to 20 for logic. If we were to be stuck with one or two EUV layers at 10 nanometers, what would be the increase in litho intensity associated with immersion? Would that be a doubling again versus 20?

彼得，我只想和你討論一下最壞的情況。因此，我們看到邏輯的光刻強度從 28 增加了一倍至 20。如果我們被困在 10 奈米的一層或兩層 EUV 層中，那麼與浸沒相關的光刻強度會增加多少？與 20 相比，這是否又翻了一倍？

I would not call that the worst-case scenario. From an economics point of view, that is the best-case scenario because it effectively means that we have a very high intensive immersion usage with a lot of application.

我不會稱之為最壞的情況。從經濟學角度來看，這是最好的情況，因為這實際上意味著我們在大量應用中具有非常高強度的沉浸式使用。

Now, it could be a worst-case scenario for, let's say, the cost, but customers have looked at this and said, we can do this, very immersion-centric, highly application-loaded solution for 10 nanometer or we can do the EUV centric. Both will present a solution to their customers so that they can start with the design rules that our logic customers are giving them, which will create the value in the end devices that the customers of our customers think that they can give.

現在，就成本而言，這可能是最糟糕的情況，但客戶已經看過這個並說，我們可以做到這一點，非常以沉浸為中心，高度應用負載的 10 奈米解決方案，或者我們可以以 EUV 為中心。兩者都將向他們的客戶提供解決方案，以便他們可以從我們的邏輯客戶提供的設計規則開始，這將在最終設備中創造我們客戶的客戶認為他們可以提供的價值。

So I think it all means that shrink will happen, but the cost structures might be different for our customers. But still the value of the shrink is not in any doubt.

所以我認為這一切都意味著成本縮減會發生，但對我們的客戶來說成本結構可能會有所不同。但縮水的價值仍是毋庸置疑的。

Now, what that means is that the worst case, what you call the worst-case scenario, which is only one or two layers, means that we need a lot of extra litho tools. Those will be loaded with application solutions.

現在，這意味著最壞的情況，也就是所謂的最壞情況，也就是只有一層或兩層，意味著我們需要很多額外的光刻工具。這些將會裝載應用程式解決方案。

Will there be another doubling of litho? Not very likely another doubling, but a significant increase, and significantly is definitely more than 20% is very likely. And that is you could say that is the flip side of a best economic case for ASML and a not-so-good economic case for our customers is that they need more litho, and they need more lithography costs and patterning costs. But it will provide the shrink value for the devices that's our customers or the customers of our customers are currently planning.

平版印刷的數量還會再翻倍嗎？再次翻倍的可能性不大，但會大幅增加，而且大幅增加肯定超過 20% 是很有可能的。也就是說，你可以說這是 ASML 最佳經濟案例的另一面，而對於我們的客戶來說，這不是一個好的經濟案例，因為他們需要更多的光刻技術，需要更多的光刻成本和圖案化成本。但它將為我們的客戶或客戶的客戶目前正在規劃的設備提供縮小的價值。

That is brilliant, great color, but I did follow up on that. So number one, can you give us a sense of what your customers are saying in terms of the penalty costs for the customers of your customers, or how much does wafer costs go up in the case of quadruple patterning for the majority of the layers and maybe one or two layers addressed by EUV, number one?

那真是太棒了，顏色很棒，但我確實跟進了這一點。那麼第一，您能否讓我們了解一下您的客戶對客戶的客戶的懲罰成本的看法，或者在大多數層和可能一兩層透過 EUV 解決的情況下，晶圓成本會增加多少？

And number two, how many or how much of the installed capacity already at 28 and going forward at 20 will, therefore, be of immersion machines will be used again if you want for the 10-nanometer node? So effectively what I am saying is, how much incremental tools are needed if that scenario were to materialize?

第二，如果您想要在 10 奈米節點上再次使用浸入式機器，那麼已經安裝的 28 台機器和未來 20 台機器中有多少台或多少台將再次使用浸入式機器？那麼實際上我想說的是，如果這種情況成為現實，需要多少增量工具？

Yes, I think the issue on -- we use -- the cost per wafer is very different customer per customer. So we almost have to go on a customer-by-customer basis the answer your question, which I'm not going to do.

是的，我認為我們使用的問題是每個晶圓的成本因客戶而異。因此，我們幾乎必須根據每個客戶的情況來回答您的問題，而我不會這樣做。

But there will be a -- I wouldn't call it a penalty, but there will be an increased cost to provide that extra shrink value. There will be. And it will determine -- it will be different from customer to customer because some customers have a different architecture; others have different yields; they have different utilizations. So it is difficult to answer that question and give you a generic answer.

但會有——我不會稱之為懲罰，但提供額外的收縮價值會增加成本。將有。並且它將決定——它將因客戶而異，因為一些客戶有不同的架構；其他的產量則不同；它們有不同的用途。因此很難回答這個問題並給出一個通用的答案。

On the reuse, you have to realize that when you go into multiple past immersion, patterning strategies, that not every machine that you can use that you currently use at 28 nanometer can be used at 20 nanometer.

關於重複使用，你必須意識到，當你進入多個過去的浸入、圖案化策略時，並不是每台你目前在 28 奈米使用的機器都可以在 20 奈米使用。

We introduced the 1970, which is the 1970 is a new machine with a, let's say, new mechanics that will enable 250 wafers per hour throughput and 20-nanometer overlay. This is what you need with those very advanced critical immersion strategies.

我們推出了 1970，1970 是一款新機器，它採用了新機制，可實現每小時 250 個晶圓的吞吐量和 20 奈米的覆蓋。這正是那些非常先進的批判性沉浸策略所需要的。

Now the current 1960 and 1950 cannot do that. I mean I would like to refer to a slide which is in the back of this quarterly result, which actually shows that. It is quite a significant difference in performance.

現在的 1960 年和 1950 年還做不到這一點。我的意思是，我想參考本季業績後面的一張投影片，它實際上顯示了這一點。性能上存在相當顯著的差異。

Now, there are performance upgrade packages that we can sell, but those are very expensive if you think about EUR10 million each, which actually means that those fine mechanics will be replaced, which is almost open-heart surgery in the field. Now that also will happen at certain places. But you have to realize then if you do open-heart surgery, that that, too, is out of production for quite a significant time, which not all customers would like.

現在，我們可以出售性能升級包，但如果你想想，每個包的價格高達 1000 萬歐元，那麼這些包就非常昂貴，這實際上意味著那些精密的機械裝置將被更換，這幾乎相當於現場的開胸心臟手術。現在某些地方也會發生這種情況。但你必須意識到，如果你進行開胸心臟手術，那麼這項手術也會在相當長的一段時間內停止生產，並不是所有的客戶都願意看到這樣的結果。

So it is a complex question. Some customers will do it. They will upgrade, 1950, 1960 to 1970 performance, but that means quite significant upgrade costs and margin for us and quite a lot of downtime in their factories.

所以這是一個複雜的問題。有些顧客會這麼做。他們將升級 1950、1960 到 1970 年的性能，但這對我們來說意味著相當大的升級成本和利潤，他們的工廠將有相當長的停工時間。

So when you look at this, I think it will all happen. Not every critical layer needs 1970 performance. So there will be some layers that way you can probably do this. But for those layers that do need 1970, I think the best option is to buy a new machine. Also, because back in the foundry space, the capacity of the existing node always stays basically available for device architectures that are not leading edge.

所以當你看到這個的時候，我認為這一切都會發生。並非每個關鍵層都需要 1970 年的效能。因此會有一些層次，這樣你就可以做到這一點。但對於那些確實需要 1970 的層，我認為最好的選擇是購買一台新機器。此外，因為回到代工領域，現有節點的容量對於非前沿的設備架構來說始終基本上可用。

So if you have a 28-nanometer device like we have a 45-nanometer capacity out there, we haven't seen in our foundry-installed base many system changes from 45 to 28. So 45 nanometers stays needed at that capacity level. It's always on top.

因此，如果您擁有 28 奈米設備，就像我們擁有 45 奈米產能一樣，我們還沒有看到我們的代工廠安裝基礎上從 45 到 28 的系統發生太多變化。因此，達到該容量水準仍需要 45 奈米。它總是在最上面。

So there is a lot of reuse in cannibalization. It can happen, but there are quite some hurdles for customers to do that.

因此，在拆解過程中存在大量重複利用的情況。這是有可能發生的，但是對於客戶來說，這樣做會面臨相當多的障礙。

And did you -- that is great. And then presumably from a financial point of view for ASML, if that scenario were to materialize, you may end actually having maybe slightly higher revenues and certainly higher gross margins given that you make more money on immersion machines than on the EUV machines, is that fair?

你做到了嗎——那太好了。那麼從 ASML 的財務角度來看，如果這種情況成為現實，那麼考慮到浸沒式機器比 EUV 機器賺的錢更多，您最終可能會獲得略高一點的收入，而且毛利率肯定會更高，這樣公平嗎？

Yes. It will provide a buffer for the undoubtedly lower EUV margins that we had initially, and it will take some time to get to corporate average. I mean it is a clear buffer, and that is what it can provide. And that is correct.

是的。它將為我們最初無疑較低的 EUV 利潤率提供緩衝，並且需要一些時間才能達到企業平均水平。我的意思是它是一個清晰的緩衝區，這就是它所能提供的。這是正確的。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Okay.

好的。

All right. Thank you, everybody. I'm afraid we've run out of time. So if you were unable to get through on the call, the IR team is available to answer some questions and help you the rest of this afternoon and certainly tomorrow.

好的。謝謝大家。恐怕我們的時間已經不夠了。因此，如果您無法接通電話，IR 團隊可以回答一些問題並在今天下午剩餘時間以及明天為您提供協助。

And now on behalf of Peter and the rest of the Board and management, I'd like to thank you for joining the call today. And, Sala, if you could formally conclude the call, we would appreciate it. Thanks.

現在，我謹代表彼得以及董事會和管理階層的其他成員，感謝您今天的參加電話會議。薩拉，如果您能正式結束通話，我們將不勝感激。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the ASML 2013 third-quarter results conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，ASML 2013 年第三季業績電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。