艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2013 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the ASML fourth quarter and annual 2013 conference call on January 22, 2014. (Operator Instructions). I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Craig DeYoung. Please go ahead sir.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 2014 年 1 月 22 日 ASML 2013 年第四季及年度電話會議。（操作員指令）。現在我想將會議交給 Craig DeYoung 先生。先生，請繼續。

Thank you, Starla, and good afternoon and good morning ladies and gentlemen. This is Craig DeYoung, the Vice President of Investor Relations at ASML. Joining me today from our headquarters in Veldhoven, the Netherlands is ASML's CEO Peter Wennink, and for his very first time, ASML's new CFO, Wolfgang Nickl. Welcome Wolfgang.

謝謝你，Starla，女士們、先生們，下午好，早安。我是 ASML 投資人關係副總裁 Craig DeYoung。今天，與我一起在荷蘭費爾德霍芬總部出席會議的還有 ASML 執行長 Peter Wennink，以及首次擔任 ASML 財務長的 Wolfgang Nickl。歡迎沃爾夫岡。

The subject of today's call is ASML's fourth quarter and annual 2013 results. This call is also being broadcast live over the Internet at www.ASML.com and a replay of the call will be available on our website for approximately 90 days.

今天電話會議的主題是 ASML 2013 年第四季和全年業績。此次電話會議也將透過網路在 www.ASML.com 上進行現場直播，並且會議重播將在我們的網站上提供約 90 天。

Before we begin, I'd like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities law. These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release and presentation found on our website, ASML.com, and in our Annual Report on Form 20-F and other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒聽眾，管理階層在本次電話會議中發表的評論將包括聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述涉及重大風險和不確定性。有關風險因素的討論，我建議您查看今天的新聞稿和簡報中包含的安全港聲明，這些聲明可以在我們的網站 ASML.com 以及我們的 20-F 表年度報告和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中找到。

As a reminder, the length of the call will be 60 minutes. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Peter Wennink for a brief introduction.

提醒一下，通話時間為 60 分鐘。現在我想把電話轉給 Peter Wennink 做簡短的介紹。

Thank you, Craig. Good afternoon, good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for attending our fourth quarter 2013 results conference call.

謝謝你，克雷格。女士們、先生們，下午好，早安，感謝大家參加我們 2013 年第四季業績電話會議。

Before we begin the Q&A session, I'd like to introduce and welcome Wolfgang to his first ASML quarterly results conference call. Wolfgang joined ASML in December of last year from Western Digital, headquartered in Irvine, California, where he spent 18 years in various operations and financial roles, ending his time there as CFO.

在我們開始問答環節之前，我想介紹並歡迎 Wolfgang 參加他的第一次 ASML 季度業績電話會議。沃爾夫岡於去年 12 月從總部位於加州歐文的西部數據公司加入 ASML，他在西部數據公司工作了 18 年，擔任過各種營運和財務職務，最後擔任財務長。

And I'll save further introductory remarks for later, as many of you will get to meet Wolfgang in our upcoming post-results roadshows later this week and next. Now Wolfgang and I would like to provide an overview and some commentary on our fourth quarter results and provide our view of the coming quarters. Wolfgang will start with the reviewers of our Q4 financial performance with added comments on our short-term outlook.

我將把進一步的介紹性發言留到以後，因為你們中的許多人將在本週晚些時候和下週即將舉行的業績公佈後路演中見到沃爾夫岡。現在，沃爾夫岡和我想對我們的第四季度業績進行概述和評論，並對未來幾季發表看法。沃爾夫岡將首先審查我們的第四季度財務業績，並對我們的短期前景發表補充評論。

I will complete introduction with some further comments on our future business outlook and update you on our immersion and EUV product programs. Wolfgang, if you would.

我將在介紹結束時進一步評論我們未來的業務前景，並向您介紹我們的沉浸式和 EUV 產品計劃。沃爾夫岡，如果你願意的話。

Thank you, Peter, and welcome everyone. It is a pleasure for me to be here today and talk to you about our results and our guidance.

謝謝你，彼得，歡迎大家。我很高興今天能在這裡與大家討論我們的成果和指導。

Q4 revenue came in very much as guided. Revenue was driven again by foundry shipments, plus an uptick in IDM shipments which together produced 65% of total quarterly system sales. Sequentially, memory system sales were up strongly as well, contributing the remaining 35% driven by NAND.

第四季的營收與預期基本一致。收入再次受到代工廠出貨量的推動，加上 IDM 出貨量的成長，兩者合計佔季度系統總銷售額的 65%。記憶體系統銷售額也連續強勁成長，其中 NAND 貢獻了剩餘的 35%。

During the quarter, we recognized revenue for our first NXE3300 EUV system. Overall, last quarter's unit shipments were more balanced between ARF immersion and KRF than the prior quarter, indicating the addition of wafer capacity. As a result, the AFP of EUR25.7 million for all systems sold in Q4 was lower than Q3 at EUR28.2 million.

在本季度，我們確認了第一台 NXE3300 EUV 系統的收入。總體而言，上個季度的 ARF 浸沒式和 KRF 之間的單位出貨量比上一季更加平衡，顯示晶圓產能增加。因此，第四季銷售的所有系統的 AFP 為 2,570 萬歐元，低於第三季的 2,820 萬歐元。

Service and field option sales again grew significantly to EUR407 million from EUR359 million in Q3. This includes time of service sales as well as higher application sales.

服務和現場選項銷售額再次大幅成長，從第三季的 3.59 億歐元增至 4.07 億歐元。這包括服務時間銷售以及更高的應用程式銷售。

Q4 net bookings and booked ASPs remained at Q3 levels of EUR1.45 billion for 52 systems booked with ASPs at EUR28 million. These bookings exclude EUV.

第四季淨預訂量和預訂平均銷售價格與第三季持平，為 14.5 億歐元，預訂系統數量為 52 個，平均銷售價格為 2,800 萬歐元。這些預訂不包括 EUV。

Memory bookings represented almost 60% of total bookings value. Our system order backlog at the end of Q4 grew further to almost EUR2 billion excluding EUV. Clear change in our backlog profile occurred at year-end driven by the increased memory bookings, leaving memory backlog at 55% of total versus 35% in the prior quarter.

記憶預訂量佔總預訂量的近 60%。截至第四季末，我們的系統訂單積壓額（不包括 EUV）進一步成長至近 20 億歐元。由於記憶體預訂量的增加，我們的積壓訂單情況在年底發生了明顯變化，目前記憶體積壓訂單佔總量的 55%，而上一季為 35%。

For Q1, we expect total sales to be about EUR1.4 billion with a gross margin of around 42%. [The gross] margin is slightly negatively impacted by the product mix relative to Q4 2013, which is expected to reverse again in the coming quarter.

對於第一季度，我們預計總銷售額約為 14 億歐元，毛利率約為 42%。與 2013 年第四季相比，產品組合對毛利率產生了輕微的負面影響，預計下一季這種影響將再次逆轉。

As discussed last quarter, we expect that Q1 will include revenue recognition for one EUV system which currently is dilutive to overall gross margin. Excluding EUV, Q1 gross margin would be around 44%.

正如上個季度所討論的，我們預計第一季將包括一個 EUV 系統的收入確認，該系統目前會稀釋整體毛利率。不包括 EUV，第一季的毛利率約為 44%。

In 2014, we expect to deliver the remaining eight EUV systems on order. In Q1, we expect to ship one EUV system. As with all new technology introductions, revenue recognition of EUV systems is currently taking place after installation and customer acceptance. This revenue recognition method will continue until we demonstrate predictable installation timing.

2014年，我們預計將交付訂單剩餘的8套EUV系統。我們預計第一季將出貨一套 EUV 系統。與所有新技術的引入一樣，EUV 系統的收入確認目前是在安裝和客戶驗收之後進行的。這種收入確認方法將持續到我們證明可預測的安裝時間。

Upon tool acceptance, about EUR60 million will be recognized for system with about EUR10 million per system being deferred until each system receives [light sold] upgrades. We currently expect they recognize revenue for one system in Q1, one system in Q2 and six systems in the second half of the calendar year 2014.

工具驗收後，將確認約 6000 萬歐元用於系統，其中每個系統約 1000 萬歐元將被遞延，直到每個系統獲得 [燈售出] 升級。我們目前預計，他們將在 2014 年第一季確認一個系統的收入，在第二季確認一個系統的收入，並在 2014 年下半年確認六個系統的收入。

As mentioned, we again saw a meaningful increase in our service and field option sales revenues to EUR407 million in Q4. This was driven by a significant quarterly increase in performance-enhancing field option sales. We expect that quarterly service and field option revenues throughout 2014 will average about EUR350 million per quarter.

如上所述，我們再次看到第四季度服務和現場選項銷售收入大幅成長至 4.07 億歐元。這是由於性能增強型現場選項銷售額的季度大幅增長所致。我們預計，2014年全年季度服務和現場選項收入平均約為每季3.5億歐元。

Combined R&D for the first quarter will be about EUR280 million. Other income, with contributions from participants of the customer co-investment program, will be about EUR20 million.

第一季的綜合研發費用約為2.8億歐元。其他收入（加上客戶共同投資計畫參與者的貢獻）約為 2,000 萬歐元。

Throughout 2014, we will walk quarterly R&D down with a targeted quarterly combined R&D spend of about EUR250 million exiting 2014. Combined SG&A is expected at about EUR85 million for Q1.

2014 年全年，我們將逐步減少季度研發支出，目標是到 2014 年底，季度研發總支出約 2.5 億歐元。預計第一季綜合銷售、一般及行政費用約 8,500 萬歐元。

We will again propose to increase our dividends by 15% to EUR0.61 per ordinary share. During 2013, we bought back 4.6 million shares for a total of $300 million (sic - EUR300 million, see slide 15), representing 30% of the EUR1 billion buyback program announced last year for 2013 and 2014 combined. ASML has now returned more than EUR4.5 billion in dividends and share buybacks since 2006.

我們將再次提議將股息提高 15% 至每股普通股 0.61 歐元。2013 年，我們回購了 460 萬股股票，總價值 3 億美元（原文如此 - 3 億歐元，見投影片 15），佔去年宣布的 2013 年和 2014 年合計 10 億歐元回購計畫的 30%。自 2006 年以來，ASML 透過股利和股票回購返還了超過 45 億歐元。

As to our current business status, memory customers have somewhat aggressively moved to the lithography system order front with bookings in Q4 of EUR850 million, a significant increase over Q3, which was higher than Q2, leaving us with a memory backlog of almost EUR1.1 billion. This backlog appears to be supported by tight mobile VRAM capacity and a steady growth path and stable market outlook in NAND Flash.

就我們目前的業務狀況而言，內存客戶已經積極轉向光刻系統訂單，第四季度的訂單額為 8.5 億歐元，比第三季度大幅增長，高於第二季度，使我們的內存積壓訂單量接近 11 億歐元。這種積壓似乎受到緊張的行動 VRAM 容量和 NAND Flash 的穩定成長路徑和穩定的市場前景的支持。

[Henri] customers are evaluating 20 nanometer demand and are preparing for 16 and 14 nanometer node capacity additions later this year as the MPU sector continues to add 14 nanometer capacity.

[Henri] 客戶正在評估 20 奈米的需求，並準備在今年稍後增加 16 和 14 奈米節點的產能，因為 MPU 部門繼續增加 14 奈米產能。

Our current business visibility, along with a high level of business certainty provided by our current backlog and understanding of near-term demand, allows us to reiterate our revenue guidance of around EUR3 billion for the first half of 2014, excluding EUV. This creates a solid basis for the remainder of the year. Now with that, I would like to hand it back over to Peter.

我們目前的業務可見性，加上我們目前的積壓訂單和對近期需求的了解所提供的高度業務確定性，使我們能夠重申 2014 年上半年約 30 億歐元的收入預期（不包括 EUV）。這為今年剩餘時間的業績奠定了堅實的基礎。現在，我想將其交還給彼得。

Thank you, Wolfgang. As Wolfgang highlighted, we have seen a significant shift in our backlog in favor of the memory sector, which will help drive our first-half revenues. This year, we will see the continued node transitions in NAND Flash and DRAM, as well as the addition of NAND Flash capacity, including an initial phase of 3-D NAND manufacturing capacity build.

謝謝你，沃夫岡。正如沃爾夫岡所強調的那樣，我們的積壓訂單已明顯轉向記憶體領域，這將有助於推動我們上半年的收入。今年，我們將看到NAND快閃記憶體和DRAM的持續節點轉變，以及NAND快閃產能的增加，包括3D NAND製造產能建置的初始階段。

Based upon customer interactions and research data, we expect the low to mid-40% bit demand growth for NAND and between 20% and 30% demand growth in DRAM, driven largely by the mobile application space.

根據客戶互動和研究數據，我們預計 NAND 的需求成長率將達到 40% 左右，DRAM 的需求成長率將達到 20% 至 30%，這主要得益於行動應用領域的推動。

First half, we'll see the foundry logic sector taking some time to absorb the rapid 20 nanometer capacity build that we witnessed in the second half 2013. [Before], we expected 16 to 14 nanometer node RAM will start in the second half of this year. Like Wolfgang said, the 14 nanometer microprocessor manufacturing ramp started late 2013 and will continue throughout 2014.

上半年，我們將看到代工邏輯部門需要一些時間來吸收我們在 2013 年下半年見證的 20 奈米產能的快速成長。[之前]我們預計16到14奈米節點的RAM將在今年下半年啟動。正如沃夫岡所說，14 奈米微處理器製造流程於 2013 年底開始提升，並將持續到 2014 年全年。

The industry has entered a very interesting time as the challenges of device design and forms have, in turn, created significant manufacturing and cost challenges in pursuit of continued cost-effective strength. In past conference calls, we have discussed our Company's strategy to address these issues, which is based upon execution around a very significant R&D investment for technology leadership. I think it's important to repeat four key areas of our strategy in the context of today's environment.

該行業已進入一個非常有趣的時期，因為設備設計和形式的挑戰反過來又在追求持續成本效益的過程中帶來了重大的製造和成本挑戰。在過去的電話會議中，我們討論了公司解決這些問題的策略，該策略基於對技術領先地位的非常重要的研發投資的執行。我認為在當今環境下重申我們策略的四個關鍵領域非常重要。

First of all, it's the continued significant performance improvement of our current dry and immersion scanner architectures which enable the most cost-effective, leading-edge imaging solutions which will help our customers to address imaging capacity involved in multi-pass patterning strategies at the current and the future at those nodes.

首先，我們目前的乾式和浸入式掃描儀架構的效能持續顯著提升，從而能夠提供最具成本效益、最前沿的成像解決方案，幫助我們的客戶解決當前和未來這些節點的多通道圖案化策略所涉及的成像能力。

Secondly, the buildup of our application products or our holistic litho portfolio, enabling and differentiating further our dry and immersion products in support of SIP 20 nanometer process control challenges, many of them related to the aforementioned multi-pass patterning strategies.

其次，我們應用產品或整體光刻產品組合的構建，進一步實現和區分我們的乾式和浸入式產品，以支持 SIP 20 奈米製程控制挑戰，其中許多與前面提到的多通道圖案化策略有關。

Thirdly, the introduction of EUV, the next generation litho technology, and the delivery of which will enable the continuation of Moore's Law by providing large cost reductions, device power savings, further device performance improvements. And fourth, the creation of a strong and highly competent R&D infrastructure to react to any relevant request from the industry which has a potential 450 millimeter wafer size insertion.

第三，下一代光刻技術 EUV 的引入及其交付將透過大幅降低成本、節省設備功耗、進一步提高設備性能來延續摩爾定律。第四，建立強大且高度合格的研發基礎設施，以滿足可能插入 450 毫米晶圓尺寸的產業相關要求。

The execution of this strategy enables us to support any short and long-term lithography need of the industry. This becomes particularly evident when we look at the challenges of our customers to address the 10 nanometer logic nodes transition.

該策略的實施使我們能夠支援該行業的任何短期和長期光刻需求。當我們看到客戶在應對 10 奈米邏輯節點轉換時面臨的挑戰時，這一點變得特別明顯。

In order to control risk, customers may decide to initially focus on the use of our most advanced NXT:1970 immersion scanner, enabling execution of their complex multi-patterning strategies, supported by the complete suite of holistic litho products for maximum process optimization, thereby making this technology the current process of record.

為了控制風險，客戶可以決定首先專注於使用我們最先進的 NXT:1970 浸沒式掃描儀，從而執行其複雜的多重圖案化策略，並由全套整體光刻產品支持，以最大限度地優化工藝，從而使該技術成為當前的記錄工藝。

As mentioned previously, the progress we have made in the development of leading-edge immersion technology has culminated into our new NXT:1970 immersion system. This machine combines world-leading performance of 250 wafers per hour, it overlays achievements of less than 2 nanometers, which, when matched with a suite of application products, enables aggressive multi-patterning strategies, which our leading-edge logic device customers can safely choose to plan their sub-20 nanometer designs.

如前所述，我們在尖端沉浸式技術開發方面所取得的進展最終成就了我們的全新 NXT:1970 沉浸式系統。該機器結合了世界領先的每小時 250 片晶圓的性能，可覆蓋小於 2 奈米的成就，與一套應用產品相匹配，可實現積極的多重圖案化策略，我們領先的邏輯設備客戶可以放心選擇這些策略來規劃他們的 20 奈米以下的設計。

The NXT:1970 has seen widespread and quick adoption in recognition of its value, and we shipped five tools in a three-month period post introduction, and have built a 14-system backlog with a value just over EUR700 million. The value of this system to our customers is translated into very strong average selling prices, currently at slightly above EUR50 million, while maintaining very healthy margins.

NXT:1970 因其價值而得到了廣泛而迅速的採用，我們在推出後的三個月內就交付了五種工具，並建立了 14 個系統的積壓訂單，價值略高於 7 億歐元。該系統對我們客戶的價值轉化為非常強勁的平均售價，目前略高於 5000 萬歐元，同時保持非常健康的利潤率。

Adoption of our application products, again key to the performance at the 20 nanometer and below, is expected to grow again in 2014, likely to a level between EUR500 million and EUR600 million. While it's clear that the performance of our newest immersion systems help our logic customers, we also see significant demand for these systems from our memory customers.

我們應用產品的採用（這也是 20 奈米及以下性能的關鍵）預計將在 2014 年再次成長，可能達到 5 億歐元至 6 億歐元之間的水平。雖然我們最新的浸入式系統的表現顯然對我們的邏輯客戶有所幫助，但我們也看到記憶體客戶對這些系統的巨大需求。

The complexity of 3-D NAND also requires best available overlay and focus capability, and will furthermore require a significant number of immersion systems which we are seeing now as 3-D NAND chip manufacturing volumes start to grow.

3-D NAND 的複雜性還需要最佳的可用覆蓋和聚焦能力，此外還需要大量的浸沒系統，隨著 3-D NAND 晶片製造量開始增長，我們現在看到了這一點。

We are very satisfied with the acceptance of our NXT:1970 as the most advanced lithography solution in the industry and as a viable choice for the 10 nanometer logic nodes. However, we realize together with our customers that the continuation of further strength and therefore Moore's Law ultimately, and inevitably, depends on the introduction of EUV.

我們非常高興我們的 NXT:1970 被認可為業界最先進的光刻解決方案以及 10 奈米邏輯節點的可行選擇。然而，我們與客戶共同意識到，進一步增強的實力以及摩爾定律的延續最終不可避免地取決於 EUV 的引入。

We are therefore working very closely with selected customers on the industrialization of our EUV technology, which they will very likely adopt when their economic targets for initial insertion of these more cost-effective solutions are actually met, thereby optimally addressing the economic and cost challenges of this node.

因此，我們正與選定的客戶密切合作，以實現我們的 EUV 技術的工業化，當他們首次引入這些更具成本效益的解決方案的經濟目標真正實現時，他們很可能會採用該技術，從而最佳地解決該節點的經濟和成本挑戰。

Regarding EUV, we're happy to report good progress. First three of 11 NXE3300B scanners have been shipped. In the last two weeks, a fourth system has been signed off and is in the process of shipping while seven additional systems are in state of integration.

關於 EUV，我們很高興地報告取得了良好的進展。11 台 NXE3300B 掃描器中的前三台已經出貨。在過去的兩週內，第四個系統已經簽署並正在發貨，另外七個系統處於整合狀態。

In the fourth quarter, progress has been shown on, first, source control systems enabling the increase of output power by 40%, showing up to 50 wafer per hour capability in our factory. Second, source uptime and cost of ownership improvements to in situ cleaning technology of the EUV mirror in the source. Third, defect management to the development and use of pellicles on the photomask.

第四季度，我們取得了一些進展，首先，源控制系統使輸出功率提高了 40%，使我們工廠每小時的生產能力達到 50 片晶圓。其次，光源正常運作時間和擁有成本的改進，使光源中 EUV 鏡的原位清潔技術得以實現。第三，對光掩模版防護薄膜的開發與使用進行缺陷管理。

Despite our continued good progress, we have currently not yet reached a stage of industrialization whereby our customers can confidently assign their critical layers for the most advanced future nodes through EUV. However, the progress that we see gives us full confidence that we will reach that stage before our customers put these nodes into full volume production.

儘管我們持續取得良好進展，但目前我們尚未達到工業化階段，即我們的客戶可以自信地透過 EUV 為最先進的未來節點分配關鍵層。然而，我們所看到的進展讓我們完全有信心，我們將在客戶將這些節點投入全面量產之前達到這一階段。

We therefore remain fully engaged in EUV insertion planning discussions with our customers, some of which at this point have already qualified EUV for imaging as a 10 nanometer foundry logic node. Going forward, with the benefits of EUV clearly understood, insertion decisions will be based on the economics of EUV driven by productivity, stability, cost of ownership improvements, in turn driving layer by layer insertion when these improvements become available.

因此，我們將繼續與客戶充分討論 EUV 插入規劃，其中一些客戶目前已將 EUV 認證為 10 奈米代工邏輯節點的成像技術。展望未來，在清楚了解 EUV 的優勢之後，插入決策將基於 EUV 的經濟性，而 EUV 的經濟性受到生產力、穩定性、擁有成本改進的驅動，反過來，當這些改進可用時，將推動逐層插入。

With that, we would be happy to take your questions.

我們很樂意回答您的問題。

Thank you, Peter. Ladies and gentlemen, the operator will instruct you momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session. But beforehand, I'd like you to kindly limit your questions to one, with one short follow-up if necessary. This will allow us to get as many callers in as possible.

謝謝你，彼得。女士們，先生們，接線生將立即向您介紹問答環節的規程。但事先，我希望您將問題限制為一個，如有必要，可以進行一次簡短的跟進。這將使我們能夠接到盡可能多的來電者。

Now, Starla, if you could give your instructions, and then we'll have the first question please.

現在，Starla，如果您能給予指示，然後我們就可以提出第一個問題了。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time we will begin the question and answer session. (Operator Instructions) Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，現在我們將開始問答環節。（操作員指示）Sandeep Deshpande，摩根大通。

Thanks for letting me on. Peter, if I could ask, there has been some confusion about what DSMC said about EUV insertion at the 10 nanometer node, and the use of and the potential economic gain to you or lack of from immersion at that node. Could you make a comment on (inaudible)

謝謝你讓我加入。彼得，如果我可以問的話，對於 DSMC 關於在 10 奈米節點插入 EUV 的說法，以及在該節點的使用和潛在的經濟收益或缺乏收益，存在一些困惑。你能對（聽不清楚）發表評論嗎？

Yes. I think DSMC didn't say that much different than what I just said. It is clear that DSMC has found out with the introduction of our deep UV systems that the safest route for a 10 nanometer node is using the maximum capability of our NXT:1970, with the full suite of the holistic lithography products, which actually gives them a kind of a safe route into 10 nanometer.

是的。我認為 DSMC 所說的與我剛才所說的話並沒有太大的不同。顯然，DSMC 透過引入我們的深紫外線系統發現，10 奈米節點最安全的路線是利用我們的 NXT:1970 的最大功能以及全套整體光刻產品，這實際上為他們提供了一種進入 10 奈米的安全路線。

Having said that, it is a route with a very high intensity of litho tools, making this not a very cheap node. This is also why we, at the same time, work very closely with DSMC on the introduction of EUV.

話雖如此，這是一條光刻工具強度非常高的路線，因此不是一個非常便宜的節點。這也是為什麼我們同時與 DSMC 密切合作引入 EUV 的原因。

We actually have seen some very encouraging results. And that -- working on that particular node will lead to a situation where, when we meet economic targets that DSMC has set for the introduction of EUV, they will immediately insert it. And this is where we are.

我們實際上已經看到了一些非常令人鼓舞的結果。而且，在特定節點上工作將導致這樣的情況：當我們達到 DSMC 為引入 EUV 設定的經濟目標時，他們會立即插入它。這就是我們現在的處境。

And I think this also what DSMC or Mark Lu said at the call. He said the process of record is deep UV because we know what to do. But, we need EUV, because it is more cost effective when our economic targets are met, and those are not targets which are at 125 wafers per hour. Those are significantly lower targets because also DSMC needs to learn.

我認為這也是 DSMC 或 Mark Lu 在電話會議上所說的。他說，記錄的過程是深紫外線，因為我們知道該做什麼。但是，我們需要 EUV，因為當滿足我們的經濟目標時，它更具成本效益，而這些目標並不是每小時 125 片晶圓。這些目標明顯較低，因為 DSMC 也需要學習。

And that is where we are. So it's a -- if there is a two-track road whereby deep UV is currently the safe route, not the cheapest route, because the future is with EUV.

這就是我們現在的處境。因此，如果有一條雙軌公路，那麼深紫外線目前是安全的路線，而不是最便宜的路線，因為未來是屬於 EUV 的路線。

And then, Peter, maybe based on what you said today, you haven't really changed what you said after your Q3, that there is this plan B and that there are these two routes to the 10 nanometer node. Are you giving any roadmap on the EUV itself? You're saying that you are on schedule. Is that all that you're saying or is there something more to it that's not really --?

然後，彼得，也許根據你今天所說的，你並沒有真正改變你在第三季度之後所說的話，即有這個 B 計劃，並且有兩條通往 10 奈米節點的路線。您是否給了 EUV 本身的路線圖？你說你已經照計畫完成了。這就是您要說的全部嗎，還是還有其他內容？

No, you're absolutely correct. We're not saying that much different than what we said three months ago. And what we are confirming is that the 70 wafers per hour, that is what we see happening this year, and 125 next year.

不，你完全正確。我們所說的與三個月前的說法並沒有太大不同。我們正在確認的是，今年的產量為每小時 70 片晶圓，明年將達到每小時 125 片。

But I think that the difference between now and between the third quarter conference call is that we have made good progress on some important elements that drive the reliability and stability of the tool, which has to do with, like I said in the introductory comments, has to do with the cleanliness of the UV mirror and also which has to do with the development of the pellicles for the photomask.

但我認為現在和第三季電話會議之間的區別在於，我們在推動工具可靠性和穩定性的一些重要因素上取得了良好進展，這與我在介紹性評論中所說的有關，與紫外線鏡的清潔度有關，也與光掩模薄膜的開發有關。

So those are infrastructural issues and are industrialization issues that actually provide another proof of good progress that we have made since the third quarter.

所以這些是基礎設施問題和工業化問題，實際上再次證明了我們自第三季以來取得了良好的進展。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Timothy Arcuri, Cowen and Company.

提摩西·阿庫裡，考恩公司。

Hi, thanks. Peter, I just wanted to zero in a little bit on what your EUV shipment plan is for this year. Last call, we were thinking that there'd be sort of 12 to 14 tools shipped this year. Sounds like there's going to be a few less than that, yet you also sound like you're a little more constructive on there being a round of follow-on orders for EUV, so can you help me bridge those two? Thanks.

你好，謝謝。彼得，我只是想稍微了解一下您今年的 EUV 出貨計劃。最後一次，我們預計今年將運送 12 到 14 種工具。聽起來好像會比這少一些，但聽起來您對 EUV 的後續訂單更有建設性，所以您能幫我銜接這兩者嗎？謝謝。

Yes. Let's first focus on the 11 orders that we have on the book and the 3300 systems, because I think that is what we said also in the introductory statements of Wolfgang and myself. There are 11 tools on the 3300. The 3300 will be followed by the 3350.

是的。讓我們先關註一下我們在這本書和 3300 系統上的 11 個訂單，因為我認為這也是我在 Wolfgang 和我本人的介紹性陳述中所說的內容。3300 上有 11 種工具。3300 之後將會推出 3350。

The 3300 are 11 tools, one of which will go through a Research Institute and we will see, not in the sales level, but will be in the R&D line. So there are 10 systems left. Three of those systems were shipped in the fourth quarter. One of them led to revenue recognition, so that leaves us with nine systems.

3300 有 11 種工具，其中一種將經過研究所檢驗，我們將會看到，不是在銷售層面，而是在研發線上。所以還剩下10個系統。其中三套系統已於第四季出貨。其中一個導致了收入確認，所以我們有九個系統。

Now the way that we currently look at the shipment schedule, and as Wolfgang said, installation and customer acceptance happen after the shipment. We currently see or plan that one of those nine systems will potentially move into the 2015, so that's why we are left with eight systems. So eight systems we will recognize out of the 3300.

現在我們目前查看裝運時間表的方式，正如 Wolfgang 所說，安裝和客戶驗收發生在裝運之後。我們目前看到或計劃其中九個系統中的一個可能會進入 2015 年，因此我們剩下八個系統。因此，我們將從 3300 個系統中辨識出 8 個。

Now, having said that, we also started the integration of the first 3350 systems. Now based on -- so we are preparing for 3350 shipments without having specific orders because we are confident that we will reach levels of productivity and reliability that will make customers take those systems.

現在，話雖如此，我們也開始了第一批 3350 個系統的整合。現在基於 - 因此我們正在準備 3350 批貨物，而無需具體訂單，因為我們相信我們將達到讓客戶採用這些系統的生產力和可靠性水平。

So, depending on the progress that we are making over the next few quarters, it could very well be that we would target a shipment or a few shipments of 3350s also towards the end of the year. That would not lead to revenue recognition because that probably is going to be in 2015, but we are preparing to, next to the 3300, be able to start shipping 3350s. And then revenue we will probably see in Q1 of 2015. Does that explain a bit what are asking (inaudible)?

因此，根據我們在接下來的幾個季度所取得的進展，我們很可能會在年底前出貨一批或幾批 3350。這不會帶來收入確認，因為這可能要到 2015 年才能實現，但我們正準備在 3300 之後開始出貨 3350。我們可能會在 2015 年第一季看到收入。這是否能解釋一下所問的問題（聽不清楚）？

It does, it does, Peter. Thank you so much. And then just a follow on, on R&D; R&D, I didn't think was going to do too much higher than EUR250 million or EUR260 million a quarter, and yet now it's creeping up to EUR280 million.

確實如此，彼得。太感謝了。然後繼續討論研發；我原本認為研發支出不會超過每季 2.5 億歐元或 2.6 億歐元，但現在卻攀升至 2.8 億歐元。

I know you're trying to bring it down throughout the rest the year. But is the creep all related to the Cymer acquisition? Or is there something else happening there? Thanks.

我知道你正試圖在今年餘下的時間裡將其降低。但這種成長是否都與 Cymer 收購有關？或者那裡還發生其他什麼事？謝謝。

Wolfgang, do you want to answer?

沃夫岡，你想回答嗎？

Yes, I mean it's just accumulation of a lot of investments that were making, not only in the EUV including the Cymer work on the source layer, but also in holistic lithography and immersion, quite frankly. We're happy to invest that money right now in order to solidify the roadmap and make sure that we deliver the value.

是的，我的意思是，這只是大量投資的積累，不僅在 EUV 方面，包括 Cymer 在源層上的工作，而且在整體光刻和浸沒方面，坦率地說。我們很高興現在投資這筆資金，以鞏固路線圖並確保我們實現價值。

But we also have a clear path to work it again down to the EUR250 million level by the end of the calendar year, which by the way, still means that we are investing about EUR1 billion run rate into this business from an R&D perspective. It's a very conscious decision.

但我們也有明確的途徑在年底前將其再次降至 2.5 億歐元的水平，順便說一句，這仍然意味著從研發角度來看，我們將為這項業務投資約 10 億歐元的運行率。這是一個非常明智的決定。

Got it. Okay. Thank you so much.

知道了。好的。太感謝了。

Francois Meunier, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Francois Meunier。

Yes, thanks a lot for taking my question. The first one would be about your comments in the press release about the capability to expose up to 50 wafers per hour on the EUV systems. If you could explain really what it means, capability -- is it because it's still a bit theoretical, this throughput? That's my first question. Thank you.

是的，非常感謝您回答我的問題。第一個問題是關於您在新聞稿中關於 EUV 系統每小時曝光多達 50 個晶圓的能力的評論。如果您能真正解釋一下它的含義，能力——是因為它仍然有點理論性，這個吞吐量？這是我的第一個問題。謝謝。

So this is not the theoretical throughput. It's actually driven by the fact that we have the source power to go up to 50 wafers per hour.

所以這不是理論上的吞吐量。這實際上是因為我們擁有每小時可生產 50 個晶圓的電源。

Just as a side comment, we would like to now talk about wafers per hour because our customers are now talking about economic metrics. And they are driven by productivity and stability. And just the driver of the productivity is the source power, so 50 wafers per hour equates to roughly 70 watts.

順便說一句，我們現在想談談每小時的晶圓產量，因為我們的客戶現在正在談論經濟指標。它們受生產力和穩定性的驅動。而生產力的驅動力就是電源，因此每小時 50 片晶圓相當於約 70 瓦。

That is what we have shown here for an extended period of time. That equates to up to 50 wafers per hour. So this is why we set it, and going forward, we would like to talk about wafers per hour because that's the metric that our customers are using.

這就是我們長期以來在這裡所展示的。這相當於每小時最多可生產 50 片晶圓。這就是我們設定它的原因，並且展望未來，我們想討論每小時晶圓的數量，因為這是我們的客戶正在使用的指標。

Okay, that's very clear, but does that mean there is a laser as in the Cymer premises, and the rest of the equipment is in Veldhoven?

好的，這很清楚，但這是否意味著在 Cymer 場所有一台雷射器，而其餘設備都在 Veldhoven？

No, no, the laser also here. It must have been quite a time since you have been here, because then you could have seen that we have here in the EUV base, it's all lasers and scanners. So it's all connected. And we do, by the way, R&D on both sides at ocean, on the West Coast and here in Veldhoven, but they're all connected.

不不不，雷射也在這裡。您來這裡肯定已經有一段時間了，因為那時您已經看到我們在 EUV 基地裡有全套雷射和掃描器。所以這一切都是有關聯的。順便說一下，我們在海洋兩岸、西海岸和費爾德霍芬都進行研發工作，但它們都是相連的。

Okay. Now in terms of the learning curve with EUV, given that there is some slight delays again with the progress because your learning curve could take longer, do you agree with the fact that if it's not used very much -- at 10 nanometer -- I'm saying if, if it's only introduced at a later stage at 10 nanometer, then it will take longer to learn how to reach higher margins with EUV. So basically for potential peak earnings into the [19, 47] nanometer.

好的。現在就 EUV 的學習曲線而言，考慮到學習曲線可能需要更長的時間，進展再次出現一些輕微的延遲，您是否同意這樣的事實：如果它在 10 奈米時沒有廣泛使用——我的意思是，如果它只是在 10 奈米的後期階段引入，那麼學習如何通過 EUV 達到更高的利潤率將需要更長的時間。因此基本上可以將潛在的峰值收益帶入[19, 47]奈米。

I've always said, and it's true, that the cost reduction is a matter of the learning curve, so whether the learning curve starts in year one or in year two, we actually need about 24 months after volume [by way of] introduction. That has not changed. I think from a learning curve perspective, there's not much difference.

我一直說，而且確實如此，降低成本是一個學習曲線的問題，因此，無論學習曲線是從第一年還是第二年開始，我們實際上都需要在批量推出後大約 24 個月的時間。這一點沒有改變。我認為從學習曲線的角度來看，沒有太大的差別。

So we need the first two years after volume introduction to actually get the margins up to the corporate average, which is still the plan. So I don't see any -- not much difference there.

因此，我們需要在批量推出後的頭兩年內將利潤率真正提高到企業平均水平，這仍然是計劃。所以我看不出有什麼——沒有太大的差別。

And the learning curve is not only for cost. I think a big part of the learning curve is with the customers, you know?

學習曲線不僅與成本有關。我認為學習曲線的很大一部分在於客戶，你知道嗎？

Actually, if we would ship a EUV tool that could do 100 wafers per hour today, where the infrastructure at the customer side is they would probably have to throw away 80% of those wafers because their own infrastructure and their processes are not able to deal with that productivity. That's why customers can settle for a lower productivity at insertion of a 10 nanometer node. Too much productivity is not good either, because they need their process development in the factory also.

實際上，如果我們今天交付一個每小時可以生產 100 片晶圓的 EUV 工具，那麼客戶端的基礎設施可能不得不丟棄其中 80% 的晶圓，因為他們自己的基礎設施和流程無法應對這種生產力。這就是為什麼客戶在引入 10 奈米節點時能夠接受較低的生產率。生產力過高也不好，因為他們也需要在工廠內進行流程開發。

Okay. Thank you, Peter.

好的。謝謝你，彼得。

John Pitzer, Credit Suisse.

瑞士信貸的約翰‧皮策。

Yes, good afternoon guys. Thanks for letting me ask a question. Peter, I guess relative to the improvements that you guys are driving on double patterning, can you help quantify from here how much improvement is left?

是的，大家下午好。感謝您允許我提問。彼得，我想，相對於你們在雙重模式方面所取得的改進，你能否幫助量化還剩下多少改進？

And is there -- I know you're trying to get away from a wafers per hour, but is there a throughput number on EUV where, independent of double patterning improvements, it still makes sense to move to EUV?

而且——我知道您正試圖擺脫每小時晶圓產量的限制，但是 EUV 上是否存在一個吞吐量數字，在這種數字下，無論雙重圖案化改進如何，轉向 EUV 仍然有意義嗎？

That is a very good question. In fact, we have said we want 70 wafers per hour this year, which is still our target and we are going forward and also it in 125 in 2015.

這是一個非常好的問題。事實上，我們已經說過，今年我們想要每小時生產 70 片晶圓，這仍然是我們的目標，而且我們將繼續努力，到 2015 年每小時生產 125 片晶圓。

Having said that, for the insertion at the 10 nanometer node, the first phase of it, the customers actually settle for a lot less than 70 wafers per hour. Customers would settle for 30 or 40 wafers at 80% availability much rather than 80 wafers at 40% availability.

話雖如此，對於 10 奈米節點的插入，即其第一階段，客戶實際上滿足於每小時少於 70 片的晶圓。客戶更願意接受可用性為 80% 的 30 或 40 個晶圓，而不是可用性為 40% 的 80 個晶圓。

So what I said earlier as an answer to the previous question, it's not only us that needs to go through this learning curve. Too many wafers cycled where -- in a process that is not stable in the customer factory, is not good either. So customers say 30 to 40 wafers would give me a reasonable stability. This is what we're focusing on.

所以我之前在回答上一個問題時說過，不只我們需要經歷這個學習曲線。在客戶工廠中，如果製程不穩定，過多的晶圓循環也是不好的。因此客戶說 30 到 40 個晶圓就能帶給我合理的穩定性。這就是我們所關注的。

So the productivity in the first phase, which would be 6 to 12 months, is not that important. Now once you start ramping, and don't forget the ramp of 10 nanometer is 2016, 2017, then they need that 70 or actually 100 wafers per hour.

因此，第一階段（6 到 12 個月）的生產力並不是那麼重要。現在，一旦開始量產，別忘了 10 奈米的量產是在 2016 年、2017 年，那麼他們每小時需要 70 或 100 片晶圓。

So you need that initial learning period not only for us but also for the customers. So you will very likely see insertion point where the productivity is not used at 70 wafers. It is used at a lower level. But they want the stability. Is that clear, John?

因此，不僅我們需要最初的學習期，客戶也同樣需要。因此，您很可能會看到插入點在 70 片晶圓時未使用生產力。它在較低級別使用。但他們想要穩定。明白了嗎，約翰？

Peter, as my follow-up -- that's helpful, as my follow-up, if memory serves me correct, this time last year, you actually gave a full year revenue number for the Company or target. Today, you're sitting here giving us only a first half. Independent of EUV adoption, is there something different in the CapEx environment this year that's giving you less visibility or less comfort giving us a full year revenue number?

彼得，作為我的後續問題——這很有幫助，作為我的後續問題，如果我沒記錯的話，去年這個時候，你實際上給出了公司或目標的全年收入數字。今天，你坐在這裡只給我們講了上半部。除了 EUV 的採用之外，今年的資本支出環境是否存在一些不同，導致您對全年收入數字的了解程度降低或信心不足？

The main difference is there's a new CEO. It's also because the visibility is what it is. And I feel, let's say qualitatively, very comfortable about 2014 because of the three core segments of the business, logic, memory, and microprocessors, are all in a very healthy state.

主要的區別是有了一位新執行長。這也是因為可見性就是這樣。從品質上講，我對 2014 年感到非常滿意，因為業務的三個核心部分，即邏輯、記憶體和微處理器，都處於非常健康的狀態。

Memory we talked about in the introductory comments. Microprocessors has now started to ramp the new node at the end of last year and is truly ramping in this year. And logic is as strong in 2014 as it was in 2013.

我們在介紹性評論中討論了記憶。微處理器現已在去年年底開始加速新節點，並在今年真正開始加速。2014 年的邏輯與 2013 年一樣強大。

So qualitatively, I'm very confident. And with the quantitative guidance of the EUR3 billion, excluding EUVs, which you include EUV, it's between EUR3.1 billion and EUR3.2 billion, if you combine the two, I feel very confident about the solid 2014. But think that I cannot see full clearly, although I do have a gut feel, I'm not going to comment on quantitatively.

所以從品質上來說，我非常有信心。依照 30 億歐元的量化指導，不包括 EUV，但包括 EUV，則在 31 億歐元至 32 億歐元之間，如果將兩者結合起來，我對 2014 年的穩健表現非常有信心。但我認為我無法看得完全清楚，雖然我確實有一種直覺，但我不會對其進行量化評論。

Perfect. Thanks, guys. Helpful.

完美的。謝謝大家。很有幫助。

Stephane Houri, Natixis.

法國外貿銀行的 Stephane Houri。

Yes, hello, good afternoon. I have a question about the lithography intensity because when you will be switching, when the industry will be switching from 20 to 10 nanometer, in the past you used to say that from 28 to 20 nanometer the litho intensity was growing by 1.7 to 1.9. Do you have the same kind of metric for the 20 to 10 nanometer transition?

是的，你好，下午好。我有一個關於光刻強度的問題，因為當你轉換時，當行業從 20 奈米轉換到 10 奈米時，過去你曾經說過，從 28 奈米到 20 奈米，光刻強度增長了 1.7 到 1.9。對於 20 奈米到 10 奈米的轉變，您是否有相同的度量標準？

It's a bit difficult to answer at this moment in time. What we are seeing -- because it is a bit different customer per customer. We're still compiling that information and I don't feel comfortable enough to give you that particular very precise answer. It might be next quarter, our conference call, I might be able to actually do that.

目前這個問題有點難以回答。我們看到的是——因為每個客戶的情況都有點不同。我們仍在收集這些信息，我還不能很好地給你一個非常精確的答案。可能是下個季度，我們的電話會議，我可能真的能夠做到這一點。

It will go up. That's for certain, because the number of layers go up and also -- from the double patterning passes will go to multi-patterning passes. We know for a fact that for certain, in all layers, quadruple patterning is actually needed. So to give you a precise number -- we're still working on it and I'd like to give you it, but I'm not going to speculate or to guess.

它會上升。這是肯定的，因為層數增加了，而且——從雙重圖案化過程將變成多重圖案化過程。我們確實知道，在所有層中，實際上都需要四重圖案化。因此，為了給您一個精確的數字——我們仍在努力，我想給您這個數字，但我不會去推測或猜測。

But it's going to be significant. So the litho intensity for the 10 nanometer node will definitely go up.

但它將會具有重大意義。所以10奈米節點的光刻強度一定會上升。

So I will wait for next quarter. Maybe a follow-up, you talked about the R&D increase. What can we say about SG&A? Because they have increased since you acquired Cymer, is there any cost-cutting measure there?

所以我會等到下個季度。也許是後續，您談到了研發的增加。關於銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A) 我們能說些什麼？自從你們收購 Cymer 以來，成本就增加了，有什麼削減措施嗎？

I would assume for now that it's relatively stable for the time being.

我現在認為它暫時相對穩定。

Okay, on the EUR90 million level?

好的，在 9000 萬歐元的水平上嗎？

EUR85 million is what we said, yes.

是的，我們說的是 8500 萬歐元。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Srini Sundar, Summit Research.

Srini Sundar，高峰會研究。

Hi, thanks for taking my question. Just to -- could you please give some color on what was involved in the acceptance of the EUV tool in the Q4 quarter?

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。只是想—您能否介紹一下第四季度 EUV 工具的接受度？

What was involved in that meeting it's -- basically it's meeting -- (multiple speakers)

那次會議涉及什麼內容──基本上就是會議──（多位發言者）

Meaning what were the criteria, what were the criteria that the customer felt was sufficient for them to (multiple speakers)

意思是標準是什麼，客戶認為什麼標準足以讓他們（多位發言者）

There were technical criteria. And the most important one was that the customer ran wafers -- what we call OPC wafers with the -- let's say what the target features of the mask being printed on the wafer, giving the imaging results confirming the 10 nanometer device requirements. And that's what actually happened.

有技術標準。最重要的是，客戶運行晶圓（我們稱之為 OPC 晶圓），假設在晶圓上印刷掩模的目標特徵是什麼，給出的成像結果證實了 10 奈米設備的要求。而這正是實際發生的事。

So what you actually asked for is that I want a machine that is an integrated machine with an EUV source and an EUV 3300 scanner with the maximum optical capability that will give us a 10 nanometer feature on the wafer using a 10 nanometer OPC wafer. And that's what it is.

所以你實際上要求的是，我想要一台整合了 EUV 源和 EUV 3300 掃描儀的機器，它具有最大的光學能力，可以使用 10 奈米 OPC 晶圓在晶圓上為我們提供 10 奈米的特徵。事實就是這樣。

And then they run a patch of those wafers and that need to be batches where everything was fine, and which was fine and was passed. That's why we say the qualification also in the introductory comments on the imaging results for 10 nanometer as actually being done. We are qualified from an imaging point of view on 10.

然後，他們對這些晶圓進行修補，這些晶圓需要分批進行，如果一切正常，這些晶圓就通過了。這就是為什麼我們在對 10 奈米成像結果的介紹性評論中也說該資格實際上是已經完成的。從成像角度來說，我們有資格達到 10。

And that's when the customer says I have a tool with which I can make my 10 nanometer devices. And then I will insert that tool when the economics, i.e., the stability of the tool, the availability of the tool, are actually met. And that will, I think, happen over the next foreseeable future because we have worked hard on it.

就在那時，客戶說我有一個工具可以用來製造 10 奈米設備。然後，當經濟性（即工具的穩定性、工具的可用性）真正被滿足時，我才會插入該工具。我相信，在可預見的未來，這將會發生，因為我們已經為此付出了努力。

And we are very close with our customers, we have made good progress, and we know what to do. So I think the acceptance of that first tool showing those OPC wafer results was a big thing.

我們與客戶的關係非常密切，我們已經取得了良好的進展，我們知道該做什麼。因此我認為第一個展示 OPC 晶圓結果的工具的接受度是一件大事。

Thank you. And just as a short follow-up -- what percentage of memory orders were based on 3-D NAND -- wafer 3-D NAND?

謝謝。簡單問一下，有多少比例的記憶體訂單是基於 3-D NAND（晶圓 3-D NAND）的？

We don't give that kind of detail -- what is driven on 3-D NAND. But NAND shipments, as we all know, there's one major outfit out there in the world that is taking tools in Asia. And that is forward NAND.

我們不會提供這種細節——3-D NAND 的驅動力是什麼。但眾所周知，NAND 出貨量方面，世界上有一家大型企業在亞洲採購工具。這就是正向 NAND。

So we are not going to be specific on this. So you can easily deduce how many systems and tools were taken by that particular customer, which I'm not going to do. So -- (multiple speakers)

所以我們不會具體談論這一點。因此您可以輕鬆推斷該特定客戶佔用了多少系統和工具，而我不會這麼做。那麼——（多位發言者）

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Gareth Jenkins, UBS.

瑞銀的加雷斯‧詹金斯。

Thanks for taking the question, gentlemen. I guess we've spoken a lot about logic insertion and 10 nanometers. Can you talk about EUV and DRAM at 18 nanometers, and what the progress there is and what your expectations are, whether it's -- with those one to two layers in that sort of 2015 time frame?

謝謝各位提出這個問題。我想我們已經討論了很多關於邏輯插入和 10 奈米的話題。您能否談談 18 奈米 EUV 和 DRAM，以及它目前的進展以及您的期望，它是否能在 2015 年的時間範圍內達到一到兩層？

Yes. On DRAM, we actually -- it's the 19 nanometer node that currently customers are looking at, which probably is going to be done with deep UV and double patterning. It's a 16 nanometer DRAM node, which is the node where we have to -- where we actually have to use EUVs. So with our DRAM customers, this is the node that we're talk about -- sorry, about EUV insertion.

是的。對於 DRAM，我們實際上——目前客戶正在關注的是 19 奈米節點，這可能將透過深紫外線和雙重圖案化來實現。這是一個 16 奈米 DRAM 節點，在這個節點上我們必須使用 EUV。因此，對於我們的 DRAM 客戶來說，這就是我們正在討論的節點——抱歉，是關於 EUV 插入。

And that actually means that we will have to see some level of interaction with our customers on EUV in the course of this year to do the first development steps for a 16 nanometer DRAM node.

這實際上意味著，我們必須在今年與客戶就 EUV 進行一定程度的互動，以邁出 16 奈米 DRAM 節點的第一步。

Thank you, and as a follow-up, completely unrelated, Peter, or Wolfgang, indeed, the gross margins on the 1970, I just wondered if you could help us quantify. Obviously, gave us some very helpful color on the ASP and the backlog. Could you just help us with the gross margins on -- of that tool? I presume given the throughput, it's at a decent level as well.

謝謝，作為後續問題，完全不相關的，彼得或沃爾夫岡，事實上，1970 年的毛利率，我只是想知道你是否可以幫助我們量化。顯然，這為我們提供了有關 ASP 和積壓的一些非常有用的信息。您能幫我們了解一下該工具的毛利率嗎？我認為考慮到吞吐量，它也處於一個不錯的水平。

The only thing I can say is that those gross margins are higher than the -- currently than the corporate average because of the higher percentage of application products that are in there. And the application products are software and hardware related. It's YieldStar combined with the software control products which carry good gross margins.

我唯一能說的是，這些毛利率高於——目前高於企業平均水平，因為其中的應用產品比例較高。而應用產品則是軟體和硬體相關的。YieldStar 與軟體控制產品相結合，具有良好的毛利率。

So the 1970 is not only a tool that has high average selling prices, but very healthy margins. The only indication I can give you -- and you can understand I'm not going to give in a public call the margin profile on the tool, a specific, which of course, a lot of customers would like and especially the purchasing departments, but it's really -- you have to look at the margin development of the Company.

因此，1970 不僅是一種平均售價高的工具，而且利潤率也非常高。我能給你的唯一跡像是——你可以理解，我不會在公開電話會議上透露該工具的具體利潤情況，當然，很多客戶，特別是採購部門都希望了解這一點，但實際上——你必須看看公司的利潤發展情況。

I think Wolfgang made it clear in the press conference this morning, when you look at the fourth quarter gross margin and you take the EUV impact out and the -- let's say non-cash accounting adjustments for Cymer, then you will see that actually the fourth quarter was above our last peak gross margin profile. So if you do the math, then Wolfgang can help you or one of the IR guys can help you to go through those numbers. But that gives you an indication of what it means for the Company.

我認為沃夫岡在今天早上的新聞發布會上已經明確表示，當你查看第四季度的毛利率並去除 EUV 的影響以及 Cymer 的非現金會計調整時，你會發現第四季度的毛利率實際上高於我們上一個峰值。因此，如果你進行計算，那麼 Wolfgang 可以幫助你，或者其中一位 IR 人員可以幫助你核對這些數字。但這讓你明白了這對公司意味著什麼。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

邁赫迪·胡賽尼（Mehdi Hosseini），SIG。

Yes, thanks for taking my question. Peter, when you look at what your foundry customers are doing, can you help us understand what's the -- if you were to have the 70 wafers per hour this year and 120 next year, what is the number of layers at 10 nanometer that your foundry customers are going to adopt EUV for, (multiple speakers) based on the 70 wafers per hour this year?

是的，感謝您回答我的問題。彼得，當您觀察代工客戶在做什麼時，您能否幫助我們理解——如果今年您的晶圓廠每小時生產 70 片晶圓，明年每小時生產 120 片晶圓，那麼您的代工客戶將採用 EUV 生產多少層​​ 10 奈米晶圓？ （多位發言者）基於今年每小時 70 片晶圓的產量？

70 wafers per hour this year. Well, like I said earlier, it it's -- if it's 70 wafers per hour, the question is whether they're going to use 70 wafers per hour. I think they are going to use the tool as much as they can. And I think they will be looking at insertion points where the economics are met for the layers that they are targeting at.

今年每小時生產70片晶圓。嗯，就像我之前說的，如果每小時 70 片晶圓，問題是他們是否會每小時使用 70 片晶圓。我認為他們會盡可能多地使用該工具。我認為他們會尋找符合他們目標層的經濟性的插入點。

Now per customer that is different. It can vary from two to four; a four maximum. Two, I think, is the most reasonable assumption. And we have the 70 wafers per hour capability, but it means that if they do their learning, they will probably start at a lower level because they have to go to their own process learning also.

現在每個客戶的情況都不同。它可以從兩個到四個不等；最多四個。我認為二是最合理的假設。我們擁有每小時 70 片晶圓的生產能力，但這意味著，如果他們進行學習，他們可能會從較低的水平開始，因為他們還必須進行自己的流程學習。

So what we are really looking at is, I would say two on average, could be three. Of course they're not all the same. Maximum four, but that's -- I would say max. So, if you want to go average, two.

所以我們真正關注的是，我認為平均兩個，可能是三個。當然它們並不全都一樣。最多四個，但那是──我想說最多。因此，如果你想要平均的話，那就兩個。

Okay. And then your foundry customers are also talking about escalating cost, and especially in the absence of EUV. Would there be a scenario in 2016 where the key customers come back to you and say, look, you got to lower the immersion ASP. Is there a scenario where you will actually be pressured by immersion ASP as a way to alleviate escalating costs in the absence of EUV? And again, this is just one scenario of many.

好的。然後，您的代工客戶也在談論成本上升，特別是在沒有 EUV 的情況下。2016 年是否會出現這樣的情況：主要客戶回來找你說，看，你必須降低沉浸式 ASP。是否存在這樣一種情況：在沒有 EUV 的情況下，為了緩解不斷上漲的成本，浸沒式 ASP 會給你帶來實際壓力嗎？再說一遍，這只是眾多情況中的一個。

Well, if you say in the absence of EUV, I don't think that for us, that is not a realistic scenario, because in 2016 there will be EUV. But if you say suppose there's not going to be EUV, then there is -- it's very hard to imagine that there are going to be any other tricks up their sleeves to go from 10 to 7. If they do, it's going to be extremely difficult from a cost point of view to keep using deep UV. So I think that what you are basically than saying is that Moore's Law will slow down.

好吧，如果你說在沒有 EUV 的情況下，我認為對我們來說這不是一個不現實的情況，因為 2016 年就會有 EUV。但如果你說假設沒有 EUV，那麼－很難想像他們還會有其他花招將層數從 10 降至 7。如果他們真的這麼做了，從成本角度來看，繼續使用深紫外線將會極為困難。所以我認為你基本上是在說摩爾定律將會放緩。

Now, so what we're seeing today, I think is more realistic. Yes it's a EUR50 million plus price, but it does provide the value to do 10 nanometer shrink. So, obviously, and the customers make those calculations better than we do, that they know what their litho spend is going to be, they know what their production spend is going to be, and they must be convinced that the value that they get out of the shrink to 10 nanometer is significantly higher than that added cost. Otherwise they would not do it.

現在，我認為我們今天所看到的更加現實。是的，它的價格超過 5000 萬歐元，但它確實提供了 10 奈米微縮的價值。因此，顯然，客戶的計算比我們做得更好，他們知道他們的光刻支出是多少，他們知道他們的生產支出是多少，而且他們必須確信，從縮小到 10 奈米所獲得的價值明顯高於增加的成本。否則他們不會這麼做。

So it's obvious that there is a cost increase. And this is the reason why they are working so closely together with us on EUV, because ultimately you could say the 1970 multi-pass patterning, great bridge solution for the 10 nanometer node -- there is a kind of a process of record. But once we made the EUV targets, yes, the economic insertion targets, they will go EUV.

因此成本增加是顯而易見的。這就是他們在 EUV 方面與我們如此密切合作的原因，因為最終你可以說 1970 年的多通道圖案化是 10 奈米節點的偉大橋樑解決方案——這是一種記錄過程。但是一旦我們實現了 EUV 目標，是的，經濟插入目標，他們就會採用 EUV。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jerome Ramel, Exane BNP Paribas.

傑羅姆·拉梅爾 (Jerome Ramel)，法國巴黎銀行 Exane。

Hi, Peter. Thanks for taking my question. There was a -- just a few months ago, you had a vision of EUV market in [2016] potentially being at 60 units. With what you described today with, on average, maybe two layers being tied up to EUV, what is the more realistic scenario for 2016?

你好，彼得。感謝您回答我的問題。就在幾個月前，您曾預測 2016 年 EUV 市場可能會達到 60 個單位。根據您今天所描述的，平均而言，可能有兩層與 EUV 綁定，那麼 2016 年更現實的情況是什麼？

And the follow-up will be if, as I assume, EUV market it being, whatever, 30 or 40 tools, in absolute dollar terms, what is the impact on your addressable market?

而後續問題是，如果按照我的假設，EUV 市場有 30 或 40 種工具，那麼以絕對美元計算，這會對您的目標市場產生什麼影響？

Yes. We said 2015, 12 to 15 units, where with some upside, if we would see a faster adoption, if it would meet the economic targets of our customers faster. We have a capability of doubling that in 2016 and doubling that again in 2017.

是的。我們說 2015 年會有 12 到 15 個單位，如果我們能看到更快的採用速度，如果它能更快地滿足我們客戶的經濟目標，那麼就會有一定的上升空間。我們有能力在 2016 年將這一數字翻一番，並在 2017 年再翻倍。

And our scenarios, our simulation scenarios that we run based on the customer roadmaps lead us to believe -- also after discussion with customers, that we are going to use that capacity if we meet those economic targets. So if you have 70 wafers per hour this year and 125 next year and we can meet those economic targets in terms of availability, in terms of the stability of the tool, I think we are going to use our capacity.

我們的場景，我們根據客戶路線圖運行的模擬場景讓我們相信——在與客戶討論之後，如果我們達到這些經濟目標，我們將使用該容量。因此，如果今年每小時生產 70 片晶圓，明年每小時生產 125 片晶圓，並且我們可以在可用性和工具穩定性方面達到這些經濟目標，我認為我們將利用我們的產能。

Okay. But realistically, what could be the number of total units you target for UV in 2016?

好的。但實際上，2016 年您計劃的 UV 總單位數量是多少？

I said 12 to 15 units in 2015, doubling that in 2016, doubling that in 2017. I think that's what we said last quarter also, and that is still the case.

我說 2015 年是 12 到 15 個單位，2016 年是翻一番，2017 年是再翻倍。我認為這也是我們上個季度所說的，而且情況仍然如此。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Mahesh Sanganeria, RBC Capital Markets.

Mahesh Sanganeria，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Thank you. Here's the -- I have a question on your booking composition. It's a little surprising. Your memory booking is pretty close to the peak in second half of 2010 and the foundry bookings are much lower. And I would've expected that it will be, considering that 20 nanometer capital intensity in foundries are so high. So maybe on both the positive and negative surprise on memory from my perspective, if you have any comment, that will be helpful.

謝謝。這是—我對您的預訂組成有疑問。這有點令人驚訝。您的記憶體預訂量非常接近2010年下半年的峰值，而代工預訂量則低得多。考慮到代工廠 20 奈米資本密集度如此之高，我本來也預料到會這樣。因此，從我的角度來看，關於記憶的積極和消極驚喜，如果您有任何評論，那將會有所幫助。

Yes, I think memory in the bookings is indeed high, but I think it is understandable. If we look at especially the DRAM situation, when we look at the installed capacity in the reduction of that capacity due to -- when I talk about the wafer out capacity in the DRAM industry, it has come down with DRAM prices going up.

是的，我認為預訂中的記憶體確實很高，但我認為這是可以理解的。如果我們特別關注 DRAM 的情況，當我們查看安裝容量時，由於 DRAM 行業的晶圓產能減少，DRAM 價格上漲導致其產能下降。

And the reason why its total capacity went down is because there were conversions from DRAM into NAND in 2012, early 2013. And also the complexity of the DRAM chips has gone up with additional ArF immersion layers, which also means that your wafers out go actually down. No new DRAM fab is built. DRAM price is going up to very healthy levels. It's not a surprise that this comes back.

而其總產能下降的原因是2012年、2013年初從DRAM轉向NAND。而且隨著 ArF 浸沒層的增加，DRAM 晶片的複雜性也增加了，這也意味著晶圓的實際厚度會下降。沒有建造新的 DRAM 工廠。DRAM 價格正在上漲至非常健康的水平。它的再次出現並不令人意外。

And at the background, NAND being pretty stable, they are all going to the next node. So when you look at the value, it's a bit deceiving because it's three to four years ago, while if you look at the units that have been booked and the average selling price difference between 2010 and 2013, 2014 is quite different also. So from a unit point of view, it's not a crazy number. But that's for memory.

在後台，NAND 非常穩定，它們都將進入下一個節點。因此，當你查看價值時，它有點具有欺騙性，因為它是三到四年前的數據，而如果你查看已預訂的單位以及 2010 年和 2013 年、2014 年之間的平均售價差異，也會有很大差異。因此從單位角度來看，這不是一個瘋狂的數字。但那隻是為了記憶。

For foundry, foundry was a bit lower in the fourth quarter. And if you look at the backlog, the end user is only 13%. So it means foundry still has to come, and this is exactly what is the case.

對於代工來說，第四季代工情況略有下降。如果你看一下積壓情況，你會發現最終用戶只佔 13%。所以這意味著代工仍需發展，事實也確實如此。

We've had one foundry investing pretty significantly in 2013, ramping before the others, which the others are now -- will follow. Simply haven't met -- not translated yet into the paper that is called an order, but those will come. There's no doubt.

2013 年，我們已經對一家代工廠進行了大規模投資，領先其他代工廠，現在其他代工廠也將跟進。只是還沒見面──還沒有轉化成所謂的命令，但那些將會到來。毫無疑問。

Okay, that's really helpful, and one follow-up question on EUV shipments. Are you going to ship all four with upgradable to MOPA PrePulse in field? Or are your -- the later shipments will go with the MOPA PrePulse? Is there a difference in shipping to different customers for the 3300s?

好的，這真的很有幫助，還有一個關於 EUV 出貨量的後續問題。您是否打算將這四種產品都升級到 MOPA PrePulse 現場版本？或者您的——後續貨物將與 MOPA PrePulse 一起發貨？3300 的運送給不同客戶有何不同？

Yes, there is a difference. So some take MOPA -- take NOMO, and with an upgrade in the field. Others want to wait until MOPA PrePulse is actually there, so there's a difference between customers. And as you can understand, because of the limited number of customers, I'm not going to give you the details, who does what, but yes, there's a difference.

是的，有差別。因此有些人採用 MOPA——採用 NOMO，並在現場進行升級。其他人則希望等到 MOPA PrePulse 真正面世，因此客戶之間存在差異。正如您所理解的，由於客戶數量有限，我不會向您提供詳細信息，誰做什麼，但確實存在差異。

And so that's the driving that you have less revenue recognition in the first half, and there is a -- there is four shipments and there is a gap and then once that MOPA PrePulse has become available then you would ship in more? Okay.

所以這就是導致你們上半年收入確認較少的原因，而且有四批發貨，存在差距，一旦 MOPA PrePulse 上市，你們會發貨更多嗎？好的。

That's one of the reasons, yes.

是的，這是原因之一。

Sumant Wahi, Redburn Partners.

Sumant Wahi，Redburn Partners。

Thanks for taking my question. I actually just wanted to clarify one previous question asked. Just to be clear, you mentioned your capacity for shipment of EUV tools in 2015, which is next year, to be about 12 to 15 only and 30 and 2016 and doubling of that in 2017. Is that correct?

感謝您回答我的問題。我實際上只是想澄清之前提出的一個問題。需要明確的是，您提到 2015 年（也就是明年）的 EUV 工具出貨量僅為 12 到 15 台，2016 年為 30 台，2017 年將翻倍。對嗎？

You are correct. What we said -- that the minimum we could do in 2015 is 12 to 15. Actually -- (multiple speakers)

你是對的。我們說過－我們在 2015 年至少能做到 12 到 15 個。事實上──（多位發言者）

Minimum?

最低限度？

Yes. That is what we believe. The actual capacity in 2015 is indeed a bit higher. So that is more like 22, 24 units. But the minimum base of those two layers I think is between 12 to 15 units.

是的。這就是我們的信念。2015年的實際產能確實要高一些。所以更像是 22、24 個單位。但我認為這兩層的最小基數在 12 到 15 個單位之間。

Okay, that's very clear. And I guess the way the situation is developing at the moment for 2016, 10 nanometer insertion, it's clear that it's either UV for NXT:1970C. And given the higher price per tool over there, is it fair to assume that on a gross profit level, it's probably the same euros you're talking about, whether a customer chooses to go for an EUV tool for 10 nanometer insertion or a double patterning one?

好的，很清楚。我認為，就 2016 年的情況發展來看，10 奈米的插入，很明顯它要么是 NXT 的 UV，要么是 1970C。並且考慮到那裡每個工具的價格較高，是否可以公平地假設，在毛利潤水平上，它可能與您談論的歐元相同，無論客戶選擇使用 EUV 工具進行 10 奈米插入還是雙重圖案化？

Actually, that's not the same. If they go for immersion, their gross margin profile is lot better.

事實上，這並不一樣。如果他們選擇沉浸式體驗，他們的毛利率狀況會好得多。

Sorry, profit dollars -- profit euros in absolute euros is higher?

抱歉，利潤美元——利潤歐元以絕對歐元計算更高？

You mean in absolute euros?

你是指絕對歐元嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Interesting question, because we need more immersion tools at the higher margin, although we have a higher sales price for an EUV tool at a lower margin. I have to look at the mix. What we're looking at is basically the 10 nanometer nodes with a predominant choice for immersion products will mean that we have a clearly better margin profile than when they predominantly choose EUV. That is for sure because of the learning curve that we have with EUV.

這是一個有趣的問題，因為我們需要更多利潤率更高的浸入式工具，儘管我們以較低的利潤率出售更高的 EUV 工具價格。我必須看一下混合物。我們所關注的是，基本上 10 奈米節點主要選擇浸入式產品，這意味著我們擁有比主要選擇 EUV 時明顯更好的利潤率。這是肯定的，因為我們對 EUV 有學習曲線。

So, maybe if we ask in terms of -- from a macro perspective, is it fair to assume that for every EUV not sold, there could be 1 to 1.5 -- you see what I mean -- for every two EUVs not sold, three NXT immersions being sold?

因此，如果我們從宏觀角度來問，是否可以公平地假設，對於每台未售出的 EUV，可能會有 1 到 1.5 台——你明白我的意思——對於每兩台未售出的 EUV，就會有三台 NXT 浸沒式光刻機售出？

Yes, I think at a minimum, because the -- that's a reasonable assumption, could even be a bit higher.

是的，我認為至少如此，因為——這是一個合理的假設，甚至可能更高一些。

Okay, that would imply, then, equal in profits at the minimum. One final follow-up -- (multiple speakers)

好的，那就意味著至少利潤相等。最後一個後續問題－（多位發言者）

At absolutes. Yes, at absolute.

絕對的。是的，絕對是。

Yes, absolute. And one final follow-up, could you give us an idea of what your CapEx profile will look like for the next -- for this year and next, please?

是的，絕對的。最後一個問題，您能否向我們介紹今年和明年的資本支出狀況？

Yes, I can touch on this. It's Wolfgang. Like Peter just said, we are staging for success. We're building out the EUV capabilities here in Veldhoven. We are also investing in San Diego. So our CapEx will run slightly higher in this current calendar year than what we did last year and that's a very conscious decision as well.

是的，我可以談談這一點。我是沃夫岡。正如彼得剛才所說，我們正在為成功做準備。我們正在費爾德霍芬 (Veldhoven) 建立 EUV 能力。我們也在聖地牙哥投資。因此，我們今年的資本支出將比去年略高，這也是一個非常明智的決定。

So could you give an absolute number please?

那你能給出一個絕對數字嗎？

We are not providing that, but it's higher than what you've seen in 2013.

我們沒有提供這個數字，但它比你在 2013 年看到的要高。

All right, thanks very much for that.

好的，非常感謝。

Weston Twigg, Pacific Crest Securities.

太平洋頂峰證券公司的韋斯頓·特維格 (Weston Twigg)。

I was just wondering if you could comment on the upgrade or reuse activity for immersion tools. And I'm wondering kind of more specifically if customers can upgrade existing tools to get 1970-like capability?

我只是想知道您是否可以對浸入式工具的升級或重用活動發表評論。我更具體地想知道客戶是否可以升級現有工具以獲得類似 1970 年的功能？

Yes, that's a good question. The answer is yes. Since the customers need more litho capability, that's a more litho throughput capability at multi-pass patterning, they are of course looking at to upgrade their existing installed base of some of their -- in our installed base to 1970 performance, because they will need a lot of those leading-edge tools. And it would be highly interesting if you can have tools of a previous generation and upgrade it to 1970.

是的，這是個好問題。答案是肯定的。由於客戶需要更強的光刻能力，也就是在多通道圖案化過程中更高的光刻吞吐能力，他們當然希望將現有的一些安裝基礎升級到 1970 年的性能，因為他們將需要很多這樣的尖端工具。如果您可以擁有上一代工具並將其升級到 1970 年，那將會非常有趣。

Yes, that can be done. And it's also in the plan that we have with customers -- almost with every customer, there is a section that deals with upgrades of a number of the existing tools. Those upgrades are upgrades that generally cost anywhere between EUR10 million and [EUR15 million], because when you go to the NXTC, you need basically a complete new wafer stage.

是的，可以這麼做。這也是我們與客戶制定的計畫——幾乎對每個客戶，都有一個部分負責處理一些現有工具的升級。這些升級的成本通常在 1000 萬歐元到 1500 萬歐元之間，因為當你進入 NXTC 時，你基本上需要一個全新的晶圓台。

So there are -- plus we need to make adjustments to the optical system. It's all quite expensive with good margins. But that is in every plan with the customer.

所以——另外我們還需要對光學系統進行調整。這些產品都相當昂貴，但利潤卻很高。但這是與客戶共同製定的每個計劃中都會有的內容。

Otherwise you could say this is an answer of the customer to make the 10 nanometer deep UV multi-pass patterning strategies somewhat affordable. And that's where we're looking into this together with our customers. But yes, that can be done.

否則，您可以說這是客戶的答案，以使 10 奈米深紫外線多通道圖案化策略變得有點負擔得起。這就是我們與客戶一起研究這個問題的地方。但是是的，這是可以做到的。

Okay, good. Very helpful. And then, I guess on a related note on holistic litho, I think last quarter you said that holistic litho sales could reach 10% of sales by the end of this year. And is that still the case? And have you indicated a gross margin range on the holistic litho options?

好的，很好。非常有幫助。然後，我想就整體平版印刷相關內容進行說明，我想上個季度您說過，到今年年底，整體平版印刷銷售額可以達到銷售額的 10%。現在情況仍然如此嗎？您是否指出了整體光刻選項的毛利率範圍？

Yes, we talked about it. This is still true, what we said last quarter. And gross margin profile, it depends on the composition of what they want. If they want more hardware than software, then it is of course lower.

是的，我們討論過這個。我們上個季度所說的仍然是正確的。而毛利率狀況則取決於他們想要的組成。如果他們想要的硬體多於軟體，那麼價格當然會低一些。

But what is more software related, well, you know, it's not a surprise that software products have a very high gross margin in the range of 80%. So that margin profile is good. And we actually need that because also the R&D cost, like Wolfgang pointed out for the -- especially for the applications group is also going up. So, the margin profile is significantly above the corporate average.

但與軟體更相關的是，你知道，軟體產品的毛利率高達 80% 左右，這並不奇怪。因此利潤率狀況良好。我們確實需要這樣做，因為正如沃爾夫岡所指出的那樣，研發成本尤其是應用程式組的研發成本也在上升。因此，利潤率明顯高於企業平均。

Okay. Very helpful, thank you.

好的。非常有幫助，謝謝。

If I could suggest that we have time for one more call. If you were unable to get through and ask a question, the IR department is available this afternoon, this evening here in Veldhoven. So feel free to give us a call, send us an email, and we'll be glad to get back to you. Now operator, could we have the last question, please?

如果我建議我們有時間再打一次電話。如果您無法接通電話並提出問題，IR 部門今天下午和晚上都會在費爾德霍芬為您服務。因此請隨時給我們打電話或發送電子郵件，我們會很高興地回覆您。接線員，請問我們可以問最後一個問題嗎？

Simon Schafer, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的西蒙謝弗。

Yes. Thanks so much for the question. I just wanted to go back on this topic of gross margin potential in the DUV business. Obviously three very clear trends in terms of rising holistic litho proportion.

是的。非常感謝您的提問。我只是想回到 DUV 業務的毛利率潛力這個主題。顯然，就整體光刻比例的上升而言，有三個非常明顯的趨勢。

And then secondly, I wondered whether you could just go through how we should think about the potential gross margin benefits now that you have sort of had a few months to digest Cymer. So, point number one, the integration benefits and gross margin from Cymer, and then secondly, how some of the accounting terms of the customer investment plan from Intel would affect gross margin as well?

其次，我想知道您是否可以簡單介紹一下，既然您已經有幾個月的時間來消化 Cymer，我們應該如何考慮潛在的毛利率收益。那麼，第一點是 Cymer 的整合效益和毛利率，其次，英特爾客戶投資計畫的一些會計條款會如何影響毛利率？

So those three things are clearly inflationary to gross margin and DUV, but I wonder how much? That would be very helpful.

因此，這三件事顯然會對毛利率和 DUV 產生通膨影響，但我想知道通膨幅度有多大？那將會非常有幫助。

Yes, the gross margin, like I said on the 1970, we're not going to be specific on the gross margin of that product for obvious reasons. Clearly the gross margin profile is improving.

是的，毛利率，就像我在 1970 年所說的那樣，出於顯而易見的原因，我們不會具體說明該產品的毛利率。顯然，毛利率狀況正在改善。

And like I said, is it's -- repeat; it gives you -- if you don't have a proxy, you can look at the fourth quarter results, look at the breakdown of the sales numbers, the number of immersion systems. We sold another four NXT:1970s in Q4.

就像我說的，它是——重複；它為您提供——如果您沒有代理，您可以查看第四季度的結果，查看銷售數字的細目分類，沉浸式系統的數量。我們在第四季又賣出了四輛 NXT:1970。

And if you take out the one-time impact of the Cymer purchase price accounting and eliminate for the EUV sales number, then you have a gross margin number that is between 46% and 47%. So, now, that -- and clearly the impact -- the improvement of the gross margin has to do with the richer mix of high quality [canvas].

如果剔除 Cymer 採購價格會計的一次性影響並消除 EUV 銷售數字，則毛利率將在 46% 至 47% 之間。所以，現在，毛利率的提高（顯然是其影響）與更豐富的高品質[畫布]組合有關。

So that gives you an indication. That's as far as I want to go. And with respect to your last part of the question was?

這給了你一個提示。我想要的就到此為止了。關於您問題的最後一部分是什麼？

It's (multiple speakers) just because the Intel investment plan obviously has an impact on the gross margin as well, I just wonder whether that 46%, 47% underlying run rate has more room to go?

(多位發言者)只是因為英特爾的投資計畫顯然也會對毛利率產生影響，我只是想知道 46%、47% 的潛在運行率是否還有更大的上升空間？

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the Intel or the Customer Co-Investment Program, although part of the program credits will be allocated to gross margin relative to the number of shipments that we make in this particular case to the biggest partner in that program.

是的，但這與英特爾或客戶共同投資計劃無關，儘管部分計劃信用將根據我們在這種特殊情況下向該計劃中最大的合作夥伴發貨的數量分配給毛利率。

But the upside in gross margin is really driven by two things. It's the application products. So it's more -- we are providing more and more litho solutions with very advanced nodes and that drives the gross margin up because of the product profile.

但毛利率的上升其實是由兩個因素推動的。是應用產品。因此，更重要的是——我們提供越來越多具有非常先進節點的光刻解決方案，並且由於產品配置，毛利率也隨之上升。

And secondly, yes -- I mean going forward in EUV, there is a gross margin impact when we are at full integration with Cymer on the EUV source, and we are driving costs down because basically, our critical integration, you will keep that margin you would otherwise pay to your supplier. You would keep that of course in your own profit or loss account.

其次，是的 - 我的意思是在 EUV 領域向前發展，當我們與 Cymer 在 EUV 源上完全整合時，會對毛利率產生影響，而且我們正在降低成本，因為基本上，透過我們的關鍵整合，您將保留原本要支付給供應商的利潤。當然，您會將其保留在自己的損益帳戶中。

So there is margin upside, different by vertical integration in EUV. But like I said, that also has to do with volume that we need to make in EUV. And I think the margin profile has benefited from the holistic litho product portfolio.

因此，利潤率存在上升空間，這與 EUV 的垂直整合不同。但就像我說的，這也與我們需要在 EUV 中生產的數量有關。我認為利潤率狀況受益於整體光刻產品組合。

Makes sense, Peter. Thanks so much for clarifying.

有道理，彼得。非常感謝您的澄清。

All right. I would like to, on behalf of the board of management here at ASML, I would like to thank you for joining the call today. And operator, if you could formally conclude the call, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

好的。我謹代表 ASML 管理委員會感謝您今天的參加電話會議。接線員，如果您能正式結束通話，我將不勝感激。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the ASML fourth quarter and annual 2013 results conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，ASML 2013 年第四季和年度業績電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。