艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2013 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the ASML 2013 second-quarter conference call on July 17, 2013. Throughout today's introduction, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After ASML's introduction, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. If any participant has difficulty hearing the conference, (Operator Instructions).

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加2013年7月17日ASML 2013年第二季電話會議。在今天的介紹過程中，所有參與者將處於只聽模式。ASML介紹完後，會有提問的機會。如果有任何參與者聽不清楚會議內容，（操作員指示）。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Craig DeYoung. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想將會議交給 Craig DeYoung 先生。先生，請繼續。

Thank you, Kirsten. And good afternoon and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Craig DeYoung, Vice President of Investor Relations at ASML. Joining me today from ASML's headquarters in Veldhoven, the Netherlands, is Peter Wennink, ASML's new CEO; and for the final time, Eric Meurice, ASML's outgoing CEO.

謝謝你，克爾斯滕。女士們、先生們，下午好，早安。我是 ASML 投資人關係副總裁 Craig DeYoung。今天與我一起在荷蘭費爾德霍芬 ASML 總部出席的還有 ASML 新任執行長 Peter Wennink；最後，我們來談談 ASML 即將離任的執行長 Eric Meurice。

I'd like to take a brief moment to publicly state to Eric that, on behalf of the ASML IR team, it's been our extreme pleasure to have worked with and for you over the last 9.5 years. And we wish you and your family the best in the years to come.

我想花一點時間公開向 Eric 表示，我代表 ASML IR 團隊，並非常榮幸在過去 9.5 年與您合作。我們祝福您和您的家人在未來的歲月裡一切順利。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The subject of today's call is ASML's second-quarter 2013 results. This call is also being broadcast live over the Internet at asml.com, and a replay of the call will be available on our website for approximately 90 days.

今天電話會議的主題是 ASML 2013 年第二季的業績。此次電話會議也將透過 asml.com 在網路上進行現場直播，並且會議重播將在我們的網站上提供約 90 天。

Before we begin, I would like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release and presentation, both found on our website at asml.com, and in ASML's Annual Report on Form 20-F, and other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒聽眾，管理階層在本次電話會議中發表的評論將包括聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述涉及重大風險和不確定性。有關風險因素的討論，我建議您查看今天的新聞稿和簡報中包含的安全港聲明，這些聲明均可在我們的網站 asml.com 上找到，也可在 ASML 的 20-F 表年度報告和提交給美國證券交易委員會的其他文件中找到。

The length of the call will be 60 minutes. Now I would like to turn the call over to Peter Wennink for a brief introduction.

通話時間為 60 分鐘。現在我想把電話轉給 Peter Wennink 做簡短的介紹。

Thank you, Craig, and welcome to everyone. I would like to start by providing an overview and some commentary on the second-quarter results and our view going forward. At the end of my introduction, Eric would like to use this opportunity to review a few key issues that he considers important in what will be his last contribution to the results conference calls of ASML.

謝謝你，克雷格，歡迎大家。首先，我想對第二季的業績和我們對未來的看法進行概述和評論。在我的介紹結束時，Eric 想藉此機會回顧他認為重要的幾個關鍵問題，這將是他對 ASML 績效電話會議的最後一次貢獻。

Our second-quarter results came in very much as planned. We saw this quarter that foundry system sales equaled memory system sales, with each representing about 45% of total system sales. The quarter shipments were highly skewed to emergent systems driving the ASP, all systems recognized in the second quarter to EUR24.1 million versus EUR23.3 million in the first quarter.

我們第二季的業績基本上符合計畫。我們在本季看到代工系統銷售額與記憶體系統銷售額持平，各佔系統總銷售額的 45% 左右。本季的出貨量高度偏向推動平均售價的新興系統，第二季所有系統的出貨量為 2,410 萬歐元，而第一季為 2,330 萬歐元。

Service and field option sales saw an uptick to [EUR271 million]. However, that included one month of Cymer service sales. Second quarter net bookings came in at EUR1.065 billion, which accounted for 38 systems, excluding UV, with booked average selling prices of EUR28 million, impacted, again, by a high percentage of immersion systems, with strength in the logic and the memory sectors. The next several quarters bookings will reflect this secular ASP trend as well, as we expect increased demand through the second half of the year for the Company's leading-edge systems for logic and memory applications.

服務和現場選項銷售額上升至 [2.71 億歐元]。然而，其中包括一個月的 Cymer 服務銷售。第二季淨預訂額為 10.65 億歐元，涉及 38 個系統（不包括 UV），預訂平均售價為 2,800 萬歐元，再次受到高比例浸入式系統的影響，邏輯和記憶體領域表現強勁。接下來幾季的訂單也將反映出這種長期的平均售價趨勢，因為我們預計今年下半年對該公司領先的邏輯和記憶體應用系統的需求將會增加。

Our system order backlog at the end of the second quarter grew to EUR1.4 billion, with total systems remaining at 42, which excludes EUV. The backlog profile at quarter's end shifted more towards memory, but is still heavily leaning towards logic as a result of the recent booking strength in the sector. As I mentioned, last quarter, we expect more substantial working capital requirements in support of our [EUV of] 450 millimeter programs over the coming 12 to 18 months. Longer factory cycle time for these new products, and investments in facilities and prototypes to deal with the anticipated volume ramp will obviously require additional capital.

我們第二季末的系統訂單積壓成長至 14 億歐元，總系統仍為 42 個（不包括 EUV）。季度末的積壓訂單情況更多地轉向內存，但由於該領域近期的預訂力度較大，仍然嚴重傾向於邏輯。正如我上個季度提到的，我們預計未來 12 到 18 個月內，支援我們的 450 毫米 [EUV] 專案將需要更多的營運資金。這些新產品的工廠週期更長，為了應對預期的產量增長而對設施和原型的投資顯然需要額外的資金。

Short-term, we will also see work in process increases to support our sales ramp in the second half of this year. Despite the requirements for additional capital, we will keep our promises to return cash to our shareholders. The Company paid approximately EUR210 million in dividends, EUR0.53 per share in this quarter, or in the second quarter. And we bought back approximately 1.4 million shares, which was part of the EUR1 billion buyback program as announced last quarter.

短期內，我們還將看到在製品增加，以支持我們今年下半年的銷售成長。儘管需要額外資本，我們仍將信守承諾，向股東返還現金。該公司本季或第二季支付了約 2.1 億歐元股息，每股 0.53 歐元。我們回購了約 140 萬股股票，這是上個季度宣布的 10 億歐元回購計畫的一部分。

Going forward, we will be guiding the combined ASML and Cymer business as one business. For the third quarter, we expect sales, total sales, to be about EUR1.3 billion with a gross margin of about 40%. The combined R&D for the quarter will be about EUR245 million; and other income, which, again, consists of contributions from the participants of the customer co-investment program, will amount to [EUR17 million].

展望未來，我們將把 ASML 和 Cymer 合併後的業務作為一項業務來指導。我們預計第三季的銷售額（總銷售額）約為 13 億歐元，毛利率約為 40%。本季研發費用總計約 2.45 億歐元；其他收入（同樣包括客戶共同投資計畫參與者的貢獻）將達到 [1,700 萬歐元]。

The combined SG&A is expected to be EUR91 million, but that includes about EUR10 million of one-time reorganization charges. As mentioned in our press release, we will incur EUR60 million of nonrecurring, non-cash accounting charges in the second half of the year, resulting from the Cymer purchase price allocation, of which about 75% will relate to the third-quarter earnings. Without this purchase price adjustment, the third-quarter gross margin guidance would be between 43% and 44%.

預計合併後的銷售、一般及行政費用為 9,100 萬歐元，但其中包括約 1,000 萬歐元的一次性重組費用。正如我們在新聞稿中提到的，由於 Cymer 收購價格分配，我們將在下半年產生 6,000 萬歐元的非經常性非現金會計費用，其中約 75% 將與第三季收益相關。若不計此收購價格調整，第三季毛利率預期將在43%至44%之間。

As to our business, we continue to see sustained demand from the logic sector, as the first foundry customer begins with initial aggressive deliveries in the second half, for volume ramp of the 20, 16 or 14-nanometer combined nodes. In addition, and as mentioned last quarter, inquiries for litho system leadtimes have begun to turn to real orders from a broad base of DRAM makers, due to what appears to be strong demand for mobile DRAM. We are also seeing NAND orders later in the second half for fab capacity additions that have been planned for some time now by a large NAND customer.

就我們的業務而言，我們繼續看到邏輯領域的持續需求，因為第一個代工客戶在下半年開始積極交付，以滿足 20、16 或 14 個奈米組合節點的產量成長。此外，正如上個季度所提到的，由於對行動 DRAM 的需求強勁，對光刻系統交貨期的詢問已經開始轉向來自廣大 DRAM 製造商的實際訂單。我們也看到下半年稍後會出現 NAND 訂單，用於增加晶圓廠的產能，而大型 NAND 客戶已經規劃了一段時間了。

We now believe that this incremental combined memory spend will drive 2013 sales, excluding Cymer, to a level of up to EUR5 billion in 2013. On top of this, we expect Cymer sales to contribute approximately EUR180 million.

我們現在相信，這項增量合併記憶體支出將推動 2013 年銷售額（不包括 Cymer）達到 50 億歐元的水準。除此之外，我們預期 Cymer 的銷售額將貢獻約 1.8 億歐元。

We see also growing demand for our holistic lithography YieldStar metrology solutions, with a demand for our in-line and standalone metrology tools that could reach a shipment total of 100 systems this year. We expect more than EUR350 million in total holistic lithography product sales in 2013, divided over system sales, and service and field option sales. The buildup of 11 EUV systems continues in the factory. And we now plan for the shipment of five NXE3300 systems this year versus our prior plan of six, which was affected by a five to six-week delay of one of the system modules.

我們也看到對我們的整體光刻 YieldStar 計量解決方案的需求不斷增長，對我們的線上和獨立計量工具的需求今年可能達到 100 套系統。我們預計 2013 年整體光刻產品總銷售額將超過 3.5 億歐元，分為系統銷售額以及服務和現場選項銷售額。工廠內 11 台 EUV 系統的組裝工作仍在繼續。我們現在計劃今年出貨五套 NXE3300 系統，而先前的計畫是六套，因為其中一個系統模組延遲了五到六週。

The first systems are in the process of shipment and installation at customer sites now. With most systems shipping later this year, and with revenue recognition only possible when both scanner and source have been shipped and installed at the customer site, we expect now to recognize about EUR210 million in revenue for EUV, still allowing us to forecast the 2013 revenues at up to EUR5 billion, which excludes Cymer, but that's due to the underlying strength of our non-EUV business, as mentioned earlier.

首批系統目前正在運送並安裝至客戶現場。由於大多數系統將在今年稍後發貨，而且只有當掃描儀和光源都已發貨並安裝到客戶現場時才有可能確認收入，因此我們目前預計 EUV 的收入約為 2.1 億歐元，這仍然使我們能夠預測 2013 年的收入高達 50 億歐元，這不包括 Cymer，但這是由於我們非 EUV 業務的潛在實力所致，如前所述。

And with that, I would like to turn it over to Eric for a review of our immersion and EUV programs, and his last comments.

接下來，我想讓 Eric 回顧一下我們的浸入式和 EUV 計劃，並發表他的最後評論。

Thank you, Peter. I wanted to focus my last comments on the Company trajectory, which both Peter and I supported for all these years, and which is based on a very simple strategy -- executing around a huge, huge R&D investment for technology leadership. This leadership hinges on four project, basically, at this moment.

謝謝你，彼得。最後我想把重點放在公司的發展軌跡上，彼得和我多年來一直支持這一發展軌跡，這一軌跡基於一個非常簡單的策略——圍繞著對技術領導地位的巨額研發投資來實施。目前，這種領導力主要取決於四個項目。

The first project is a relentless, continuous improvement of our XT and NXT architectures, to basically, today, immersion. Now project two is a buildup of an application product suite, enabling and differentiating the NXT products.

第一個項目是對我們的 XT 和 NXT 架構進行不懈、持續的改進，基本上達到了今天的沉浸式效果。現在，第二個項目是建立一個應用產品套件，以支援和區分 NXT 產品。

Project three is introduction of the next generation game changer technology, basically EUV, which will be required by the industry for the next 15 to 20 years. And product number four is the capability to insert cost-effectively, when the industry requires it, the next wafer size 450 millimeter, so far planned for production not before 2018.

第三個項目是引入下一代改變遊戲規則的技術，基本上是 EUV，這將是未來 15 到 20 年產業所需要的。第四個產品是當產業需要時，能夠以經濟高效的方式插入下一個 450 毫米晶圓尺寸，目前計劃在 2018 年之前投入生產。

For our project one and two, as you saw from the press release, we are again proving our leadership case with our new NXT1970, which is to be introduced in H2 of this year. It is a 250 wafer per hour system, with overlay having been achieved down to 1.9 nanometer, and with a suite of applications, product packages valued this year at [above] EUR350 million of sales and growing further and fast.

對於我們的專案一和專案二，正如您從新聞稿中看到的，我們將在今年下半年推出新的 NXT1970，再次證明我們的領導地位。該系統每小時可生產 250 片晶圓，覆蓋精度可達 1.9 奈米，並配備一套應用程式和產品包，今年的銷售額達 3.5 億歐元以上，並且還在快速增長。

With these capabilities, we will be benefiting from the current's microconductor process complexities for 20 nanometer logic and DRAM -- and these processes are more litho-intensive than ever -- and from the added complexity of inserting FinFET transistors at the same pitch, which will be called 14 nanometer or 16 nanometer. Even the complexity of vertical NAND, which, although on paper, should not require state-of-the-art lithography, in practice, however, requires significant risk-reducing best overlay and focus capability, and require significant numbers of system as NAND chips, the volume grows.

憑藉這些能力，我們將受益於當前 20 奈米邏輯和 DRAM 的微導體製程複雜性——這些製程比以往更加重視光刻——以及以相同間距插入 FinFET 電晶體的額外複雜性，這將被稱為 14 奈米或 16 奈米。即使是垂直 NAND 的複雜性，雖然從理論上講，不需要最先進的光刻技術，但在實踐中，需要顯著降低風險的最佳覆蓋和聚焦能力，並且隨著 NAND 晶片數量的增長，需要大量的系統。

On project three, which is EUV, we have made fundamental steps in the first half of 2013. We have now enough data to confirm the possibility to ramp system in production in 2015 for semiconductor production in 2015 and '16. So I know the question has been asked about the progress of power and et cetera during the quarter, but I want to remind the audience that this quarter was a quarter of transition between the platform 3100, which was limited in power to about 55 watt, to the new architecture 3300. So, this is basically what has happened in the quarter.

對於第三個項目，即 EUV，我們在 2013 年上半年取得了根本性的進展。我們現在有足夠的數據來確認在 2015 年和 2016 年實現半導體生產系統量產的可能性。所以我知道有人問到本季功率等方面的進展情況，但我想提醒觀眾，本季是從功率限制在 55 瓦左右的平台 3100 向新架構 3300 過渡的季度。所以，這基本上就是本季發生的情況。

And within this quarter, we have been able to accumulate a certain numbers of data -- like that we have now more than 44,000 wafers processed in the field. We have checked further the source potential concept in the lab. We have factory experiments on the new source, a concept called mobile pre-pulse. The new NXE3300 scanner, which I just talked about, have confirmed 10 nanometer logic and 1x nanometer DRAM overlay and focus capability. More importantly, even, than that, the EUV light sources are now running, I would say, routinely at 55 watts, with production worthy those controls.

在本季度內，我們已經累積了一定數量的數據——例如我們現在已經在現場處理了超過 44,000 個晶圓。我們在實驗室中進一步檢驗了源電位概念。我們對新源進行了工廠實驗，這個概念稱為移動預脈衝。我剛才談到的新型 NXE3300 掃描儀已確認具有 10 奈米邏輯和 1x 奈米 DRAM 覆蓋和聚焦能力。更重要的是，我想說，EUV 光源現在通常以 55 瓦的功率運行，而這些控制值得投入生產。

So this is an equivalent of the machine capable of 40 wafer per hour in the production environment. So this performance supports our targeted production throughput for 2014 of 69 wafer per hour, upgradable within two years to 125 wafer per hour. This is our commitment to the customers since about a year or a year-and-a-half.

因此這相當於在生產環境中每小時能夠生產 40 片晶圓的機器。因此，此效能支援了我們 2014 年的目標生產吞吐量，即每小時 69 片晶圓，並在兩年內提升至每小時 125 片晶圓。這是我們大約一年或一年半以來對客戶的承諾。

So the current EUV data, the current progress is basically triggering now customer decisions. In logic, one or two layers of EUV for the so-called 10 nanometer node will deliver already a significant die shrinkage compared to any alternative technology, inclusive of double patterning or triple patterning. This die shrink will improve the cost of the die, obviously, the power consumption capability, and the speed. This justifies -- this value, the strength factor -- justifies EUV as a growth technology, even if the throughput of EUV machine is lower even than our 2015 commitment.

因此，目前的 EUV 數據和當前進展基本上正在觸發客戶的決策。從邏輯上講，對於所謂的 10 奈米節點，與任何替代技術（包括雙重圖案化或三重圖案化）相比，一層或兩層 EUV 已經可以實現顯著的晶片縮小。晶片尺寸縮小會降低晶片成本，顯然還會提高功耗能力和速度。這證明了——這個數值，這個強度因素——證明了 EUV 作為成長技術是合理的，即使 EUV 機器的吞吐量甚至低於我們 2015 年的承諾。

If, however, the throughput roadmap of 69 wafer per hour upgradable to 125, as we committed, does materialize in time as expected, then more EUV layers and logic, up to seven layers, will deliver process control, yield and cost savings. So, first, you have shrink, die shrink, which is one or two layers; and, in addition, you would have here process control, yield, and cost saving. And this capability will also enable the technology of EUV to be used on three layers in DRAM.

然而，如果我們承諾的每小時 69 片晶圓的吞吐量路線圖可升級到 125 片晶圓，並按預期及時實現，那麼更多的 EUV 層和邏輯（最多七層）將實現製程控制、產量和成本節約。所以，首先，你要收縮，模切收縮，它是一層或兩層；此外，您還可以實現流程控制、產量和成本節約。而這項能力也將使得EUV技術能夠應用於DRAM的三層上。

So these two facets are fundamental to understand, in fact, that -- what will come later. The clear technology demand drivers that we just mentioned, if we hit the throughput targeted of 125 wafer per hour, we would expect to ship maximum -- our maximum EUV capacity of 25 to 30 tools in 2015. Add to the current throughput of only 40 wafer per hour, we could still plan to ship 12 to 15 EUV tools, which will be, in fact, used for these one or two layers of logic, with a compensating immersion tool volume for the layers not handled by EU.

因此，事實上，這兩個方面對於理解接下來發生的事情至關重要。我們剛才提到的明確的技術需求驅動因素是，如果我們達到每小時 125 片晶圓的目標產量，我們預計在 2015 年將出貨最大 - 我們的最大 EUV 容量為 25 到 30 台工具。加上目前每小時僅 40 片晶圓的吞吐量，我們仍然可以計劃運送 12 到 15 個 EUV 工具，這些工具實際上將用於這一兩層邏輯層，並使用補償浸沒工具的體積來處理 EU 未處理的層。

So, to finish, I would like to say that it has been my great pleasure to have met many of you over the last nine years. I would like to thank you for your support of our business model as measured by your very, very, very detailed interest in lithography.

最後，我想說，在過去的九年裡，我很高興認識你們中的許多人。我想感謝您對我們商業模式的支持，這一點從您對光刻技術非常非常感興趣就可以看出。

I wish you all the best, and I certainly hope that our path will cross again.

我祝你一切順利，也希望我們能再次相遇。

Thank you, Eric. And with that, we will be pleased to take your questions.

謝謝你，埃里克。我們將很高興回答您的問題。

Thanks. Well, let me just say before we start here that, ladies and gentlemen, the operator will instruct you momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A. But beforehand, I would like to ask you, as I always do, to kindly limit your question to one, and with one short follow-up if necessary. This will allow us to get as many callers in as possible.

謝謝。好吧，在我們開始之前，我想說，女士們，先生們，接線員將立即指導您進行問答。但在此之前，我想像往常一樣，請您將您的問題限制為一個，並在必要時進行簡短的跟進。這將使我們能夠接到盡可能多的來電者。

So, now, Kirsten, could we have your instructions and then the first question, please?

那麼，現在，Kirsten，我們可以聽聽您的指示，然後問第一個問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions). Francois Meunier, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指令）。摩根士丹利的 Francois Meunier。

Yes, thank you for taking my question. It sounds from your introduction, Mr. Meurice, that you are more bullish on EUV and less bullish on quadruple patterning. Is it really proving that difficult to use quadruple patterning for your customers at this junction, and maybe just thinking about using EUV maybe earlier than what they were thinking before?

是的，感謝您回答我的問題。莫里斯先生，從您的介紹來看，您似乎更看好 EUV，而不太看好四重圖案技術。在這個節點上，為您的客戶使用四重圖案化技術是否真的那麼困難，也許他們只是在考慮比以前更早使用 EUV？

Let me answer that question, Francois. The discussions we have had with our customers over the last three months have taken another step in intensity talking about EUV introduction. Because as you seem to suggest, that the difficulties that customers have when they think about not the 20 nanometer node, but the 10 nanometer node, using multiple patterning strategies, those difficulties are quite significant.

讓我來回答這個問題，弗朗索瓦。過去三個月來，我們與客戶就 EUV 引入進行的討論又邁出了新的一步。因為正如您所暗示的，當客戶考慮的不是 20 奈米節點，而是 10 奈米節點，使用多種圖案化策略時，他們所遇到的困難是相當大的。

Just to give you an indication, that the multiple patterning strategies, we believe, after consultation with some of our customers, that the shrink factor that can be achieved by using multiple partnering strategies at 10 nanometers is only going to be 1.5 to 1.6, where 2 used to be the Moore's Law rhythm. Doing only one or two EUV layers -- in effect, one -- brings that 1.5 up to 1.8. And if you use an additional number of layers where we have a higher throughput, then it comes back to two.

僅供參考，在與一些客戶協商後，我們認為，多重圖案化策略在 10 奈米時使用多重合作策略可以實現的縮小因子僅為 1.5 到 1.6，而 2 曾經是摩爾定律的節奏。只需製作一層或兩層 EUV 層（實際上是一層）即可將 1.5 提升至 1.8。如果您使用額外的層數以獲得更高的吞吐量，那麼它就會回到兩層。

So on top of that, the electrical characteristics by using EUV are also significantly better. So, yes, I think when you think about the cost advantages, the speed advantages, and the power advantages, using the maximum shrink factor by using EUV, it is not a surprise that we have intensified the discussions with our customers, and customers wanted to intensify the discussion on the introduction of indeed EUV at the 10 nanometer node.

因此，最重要的是，使用 EUV 的電氣特性也顯著更好。所以，是的，我認為當你考慮成本優勢、速度優勢和功率優勢時，透過使用 EUV 實現最大縮小係數，我們加強與客戶的討論也就不足為奇了，客戶希望加強關於在 10 奈米節點引入 EUV 的討論。

Okay, thank you very much. Can I ask another question about 3D NAND, actually? Because can you give us maybe a number of what would be the lithograph intensity of -- for 3D NAND versus normal NAND?

好的，非常感謝。實際上，我可以問另一個有關 3D NAND 的問題嗎？因為您能否提供我們一些關於 3D NAND 與普通 NAND 的光刻強度的數字？

Yes, for 3D NAND, we believe that the litho intensity is about the same. There is an upside because there are -- and significantly increased number of layers. That upside is not particularly for litho. Litho will be about the same level of intensity, but will be for other, let's say, process steps that position etch, for instance.

是的，對於 3D NAND，我們認為光刻強度大致相同。這有一個好處，因為層數顯著增加。這種優勢並非只對光刻技術有用。光刻的強度大致相同，但適用於其他製程步驟，例如定位蝕刻。

So from a litho point of view, we don't see a major difference with what we see today. Also, because those 3D NAND fabs are very, very likely going to be greenfield fabs. And in those greenfield fabs, when you buy leading-edge litho, you also buy for the extendibility; although you could argue that for the introduction node, you could have a slightly relaxed immersion litho requirement. It will always be immersion, by the way. And customers choose for the extendibility of the model leading-edge machine.

因此，從光刻的角度來看，我們看不出與今天所見有什麼重大差異。此外，這些 3D NAND 晶圓廠很有可能是新建晶圓廠。而在那些新建的晶圓廠中，當你購買尖端光刻技術時，你也購買了可擴展性；儘管您可能會爭辯說，對於引入節點，您可以稍微放寬浸沒式光刻要求。順便說一句，它將永遠是一種沉浸感。而客戶選擇該型號尖端機器是因為它具有可擴展性。

So, yes, I would say there is upside for other process equipment (inaudible), but for us, the intensity will be the same.

所以，是的，我想說其他工藝設備也有好處（聽不清楚），但對我們來說，強度是一樣的。

Okay, thank you very much, Peter.

好的，非常感謝，彼得。

Gareth Jenkins, UBS.

瑞銀的加雷斯‧詹金斯。

Yes, a couple of questions around one subject, if I could, on YieldStar. Thanks for taking my question. So I just wondered if you would give us a sense of how much revenue you expect from YieldStar specifically? And given you talked about 100 tools, what that means in terms of capacity you expect for 20 nanometer coming online for the next year?

是的，如果可以的話，我想在 YieldStar 上圍繞一個主題問幾個問題。感謝您回答我的問題。所以我只是想知道您是否可以告訴我們您預計 YieldStar 的具體收入是多少？鑑於您談到了 100 種工具，這對於您預計明年 20 奈米上線的產能意味著什麼？

And then related to that, I just wondered if you'd give us a sense of the margin impact of YieldStar? Is it in line with your holistic lithography products historically, so high double-digits? Thank you.

與此相關，我只是想知道您是否能讓我們了解 YieldStar 對利潤的影響？這是否與你們歷史上整體光刻產品保持一致，達到如此高的兩位數？謝謝。

Thank you for asking three questions, Gareth. (laughter)

謝謝你提出三個問題，加雷斯。（笑聲）

Right. Choose one.

正確的。選擇一個。

You probably have a follow-up, yes? The question how much revenue in YieldStar, YieldStar products sell for about $2 million each. And we plan to ship about, I'd say, 100 of those this year. But they are part of the total EUR350 million number that we quoted in the introduction. So it's -- YieldStar's can be purchased as a separate standalone tool, but increasingly, and especially for the 20 nanometer node, we see that the most advanced applications use them as an in-line solution with our other integrated metrology applications.

您可能還有後續行動，對嗎？問題是 YieldStar 能帶來多少收入，YieldStar 的每個產品售價約 200 萬美元。我們計劃今年出貨約 100 輛。但它們是我們在引言中引用的 3.5 億歐元總額的一部分。因此，YieldStar 可以作為單獨的獨立工具購買，但越來越多地，特別是對於 20 奈米節點，我們看到最先進的應用程式將它們用作與我們其他整合計量應用程式的線上解決方案。

Gareth, can you mute your side, because we're hearing some feedback?

加雷斯，你能把你的聲音靜音嗎，因為我們正在聽一些回饋？

Okay, thank you. Thank you. So that means that it is a part of our EUR350 million target for this year. And Eric already said in his introductory statements that this holistic litho application group has a suite of products that is particularly usable for the 20 nanometer node and beyond. So that means that we have a very good expectation on the growth rates of that business.

好的，謝謝。謝謝。這意味著這是我們今年 3.5 億歐元目標的一部分。Eric 在介紹性的演講中已經說過，這個整體光刻應用小組有一套特別適用於 20 奈米節點及以上節點的產品。這意味著我們對該業務的成長率抱持非常好的預期。

On the capacity expansion that you asked, yes, we will do about 100 systems this year. The capacity expansion for YieldStar next year will go to 150. And that is a reflection of what we think the needs in the industry are for in-line metrology solution.

關於您問到的產能擴張，是的，我們今年將做大約 100 個系統。YieldStar 明年的產能擴張將達到 150 台。我們認為這反映了業界對線上計量解決方案的需求。

The impact on the gross margin of the total holistic lithography group is significant because there is a lot of software in there. So, they have margins, without going into detail, that are better than our corporate average margins. And, of course, when the total sales of that business unit grows, I think we will have a positive impact on the gross margin.

由於其中包含大量軟體，因此對整體光刻組整體毛利率的影響很大。因此，無需贅述，他們的利潤率高於我們企業的平均利潤率。當然，當該業務部門的總銷售額成長時，我認為我們將對毛利率產生積極影響。

I think it is evidence if you think about -- I mentioned in my introductory statement that, without these one-time accounting charges on the purchase price allocation of Cymer, we would still do between 43% and 44% gross margin on our EUR1.3 billion sales number. That is, given the fact that if you have been here lately, you see we have quite a significant infrastructure for EUV. All that cost is currently also taken up by the fact that we are improving our margin for our base business by driving costs down, but also by increasing value for the products that we ship to our customers, of which the holistic litho product program is a very important part.

我認為如果你仔細想想，這就是證據——我在介紹性聲明中提到，如果沒有 Cymer 收購價格分配中的這些一次性會計費用，我們的 13 億歐元銷售額的毛利率仍將在 43% 到 44% 之間。也就是說，如果您最近來過這裡，您會發現我們擁有相當重要的 EUV 基礎設施。目前，所有這些成本都用於透過降低成本來提高基礎業務的利潤率，同時也透過提高我們發送給客戶的產品的價值來提高利潤率，其中整體光刻產品計劃是非常重要的一部分。

All right, thank you. I'll take the follow-up, to pardon the pun, off-line.

好的，謝謝。請原諒我的雙關語，我將在線下進行後續報道。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Simon Schafer, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的西蒙謝弗。

Actually wanted to ask about sort of how you think about the margin accretion as it relates to the Cymer acquisition now that you've closed? And so you are sort of getting an initial feel of what the expenses are. I mean, I understand how in the near-term, of course, you've got some of the accounting to take care of, and some of the incremental costs are also rising because you're in the EUV ramp phase.

實際上，我想問一下，既然您已經完成了 Cymer 收購，您如何看待與收購相關的利潤成長？這樣你就會對費用有多少有初步的了解了。我的意思是，我明白在短期內，你當然需要處理一些會計問題，而且由於你正處於 EUV 爬坡階段，一些增量成本也會上升。

But more broadly, how are you thinking about the medium-term accretion in terms of Cymer? I think last time on the call, you said looking for sort of net accretion, I guess, within a couple of years of closure. Any comment on that would be really helpful.

但更廣泛地說，您如何看待 Cymer 的中期成長？我想上次在電話中，您說希望在關閉後的幾年內實現某種淨增值。對此的任何評論都會非常有幫助。

Yes, I think when you look at the margin accretion for Cymer, you have to split the Cymer business in two parts. One part -- and it is basically also the way that we run the businesses now. We have the DPV business, which is a very good, stable, profitable cash flow-rich business, which definitely adds to the overall corporate margin of ASML. And -- but you can also look at the historical Cymer data of one or two years ago, and you would get a clear indication of what I would mean.

是的，我認為當您查看 Cymer 的利潤成長時，您必須將 Cymer 業務分成兩部分。一方面——這基本上也是我們現在經營業務的方式。我們的DPV業務是一項非常好的、穩定的、獲利能力強、現金流充裕的業務，無疑增加了ASML的整體企業利潤率。而且——但您也可以查看一兩年前的 Cymer 歷史數據，您就會清楚地明白我的意思。

Now, clearly, Cymer has stepped up, over the last year-and-a-half, the expenses for the EUV source development. Stepping up those expenses was a necessity after, I must admit, a couple of years of underinvestment. We have made great progress over the last nine months, but it was, of course, due to the fact that we were looking at, let's say, a merger of the two companies. But not in the last part, it was used -- it was based on the fact that we spent significantly more in research and development. And you could argue that that has been a catch-up of the underinvestments of the years before.

現在，很明顯，Cymer 在過去的一年半中增加了 EUV 光源開發的開支。我必須承認，在經歷了幾年的投資不足之後，增加這些開支是必要的。過去九個月我們取得了巨大進展，但這當然是因為我們正在考慮兩家公司的合併。但在最後一部分，它沒有被使用——這是基於我們在研究和開發方面投入了更多資金的事實。你也可以說，這是對前幾年投資不足的彌補。

We do expect the next 12 months -- 12 to 18 months, we will need to keep doing that. So when you look at the results for the month of June, as we showed in the press release, you see that the operations from Cymer did not contribute yet to the net income of the Company. And that is because we are using the cash flow and the profitability of the DPV division to fund the EUV source -- the development cost for the next 12 to 18 months.

我們確實預計未來 12 個月——12 到 18 個月，我們需要繼續這樣做。因此，當您查看六月的業績時，正如我們在新聞稿中所展示的，您會發現 Cymer 的業務尚未為公司的淨收入做出貢獻。這是因為我們正在使用 DPV 部門的現金流和獲利能力來資助 EUV 來源——未來 12 到 18 個月的開發成本。

After that, however, we see that significantly integration possibilities are there on the R&D cost. That has to do with the fact that we have been developing an EUV source on two sides of the ocean, so to say. We have close to 1000 people now working in R&D, of which more than half here in Veldhoven, and slightly less than half in San Diego.

然而，此後我們發現，研發成本存在很大的整合可能性。可以這麼說，這是因為我們一直在大洋兩岸開發 EUV 光源。我們目前有近 1000 名研發人員，其中一半以上在費爾德霍芬，略少於一半在聖地牙哥。

Now you can imagine that if you do that as two separate companies, that is not as efficient as if you would do it as one integrated company, and that's what we're working on. That will take this 12 to 18 months to really sort that out. Then I do expect a significant efficiency in the R&D costs. And by that time we're in 2015 and we start ramping our EUV systems, which should then start generating the gross margins to cover for those R&D costs.

現在你可以想像，如果你作為兩個獨立的公司來做這件事，那麼效率就不如作為一家綜合性公司來做，而這正是我們正在努力的方向。真正解決這個問題需要 12 到 18 個月的時間。那麼我確實預計研發成本將顯著提高效率。到 2015 年，我們將開始增加 EUV 系統的投入，這將開始產生毛利率，以彌補研發成本。

So it is a long answer, but, in fact, it actually says we need 12 to 18 months for integration to make sure that we get EUV source to the powers, so that we can deliver 125 wafers to our customers. And that will be a short-term impact. And I think that's basically it.

所以這是一個很長的答案，但事實上，它實際上說我們需要 12 到 18 個月的時間進行整合，以確保我們獲得 EUV 來源，以便我們可以向客戶交付 125 片晶圓。這只會造成短期影響。我認為基本上就是這樣。

Makes sense. Great, thanks so much. My follow-up question, actually, just a quick one is sort of along the same lines in terms of how that shapes your thinking on capital returns. If I understand correctly, I think in your remarks you basically said, look, as part of this ramp, of course, your capital consumption, specifically working capital, will probably rise a little bit, still. But what sort of outflow do you have in mind? And how does that shape your ability to buy back more stock or choose another method of redistribution? Thank you.

有道理。太好了，非常感謝。實際上，我的後續問題只是一個簡單的問題，關於這如何影響您對資本回報的看法。如果我理解正確的話，我認為您在演講中基本上是說，看，作為這種增長的一部分，當然，您的資本消耗，特別是營運資本，可能仍會略有上升。但是您考慮的是哪種類型的流出？這如何影響您回購更多股票或選擇其他重新分配方法的能力？謝謝。

Yes. Now what we did over the last couple of years, we basically, if you look at the numbers, everything that we added [above] our cash targets, we gave back in terms of dividends and of share buybacks. Now part of that cash flow for the next 12 to 18 months we will have to use for the investments in the production facilities, and in prototypes, for the EUV ramp at 450 millimeter. But I can assure you there is money left. There is money left to do the dividends and to do buybacks. So we will continue with that. But if you look at the historical pattern of the last couple of years, where we basically distribute our net income, for the next 12 to 18 months, we will have to use part of that to build infrastructure for our earnings power going forward. And I think that is an inevitable fact when you start ramping big new product lines like EUV and like [450 millimeter]. But I don't expect it to last longer than the next 12 to 18 months.

是的。現在，我們在過去幾年裡所做的基本上是，如果你看一下數字，我們增加的所有超過現金目標的部分，我們都以股息和股票回購的形式回饋了。現在，我們必須將未來 12 到 18 個月的部分現金流用於對生產設施和原型的投資，以實現 450 毫米的 EUV 提升。但我可以向你保證，還有錢剩餘。剩下的錢可以用來分紅和回購。因此我們將繼續這樣做。但如果你看看過去幾年的歷史模式，我們基本上分配了我們的淨收入，那麼在接下來的 12 到 18 個月裡，我們將不得不使用其中的一部分來建立基礎設施，以確保我們未來的獲利能力。我認為，當你開始推出 EUV 和 [450 毫米] 等大型新產品線時，這是一個不可避免的事實。但我預計它不會持續超過未來 12 到 18 個月。

Great. Okay, thanks so much.

偉大的。好的，非常感謝。

Weston Twigg, Pacific Crest Securities.

太平洋頂峰證券公司的韋斯頓·特維格 (Weston Twigg)。

Thanks for taking my question. Just one thing I was hoping that maybe you could help us with is, if customers need EUV at 10 nanometer, at least for a couple of critical layers, can you give us a feeling for how a customer can rely on ramping a tool that hasn't yet been proven in HVM? And how does that qualification process take place when that ramp is really only two years away at the leading logic customer?

感謝您回答我的問題。我只希望您能幫助我們解決一件事，如果客戶需要 10 奈米 EUV，至少需要幾個關鍵層，您能否讓我們了解客戶如何依賴尚未在 HVM 中驗證的工具？那麼，當領先邏輯客戶真正實現這一目標僅需兩年時間時，該資格認證流程如何進行？

That's a very good question. This is what I started the answer to the first question off with, is the fact that we have taken the level of interaction with our customers to a new level of intensity -- it basically refers to your question. In order to make sure that we can do that, we have teams on-site that make it very clear and transparent what the tool can do. And based on the performance of that tool and the ramp of that performance, the customer is going to scale, basically, their activity. So it's going to be as very close coordination and cooperation between ASML engineers and the customer engineers.

這是一個非常好的問題。這就是我開始回答第一個問題時所說的，事實上我們已經將與客戶的互動程度提升到了一個新的水平——這基本上是指你的問題。為了確保我們能夠做到這一點，我們在現場安排了團隊，非常清楚且透明地說明工具的功能。根據該工具的性能和性能的提升，客戶基本上可以擴大他們的活動規模。因此，ASML 工程師與客戶工程師之間需要非常密切的協調與合作。

Also, what is important by the time that we ship those tools and the customers will calculate how many tools that they need, there will be a certain level of safety buffer in there, in terms of what those tools can do. Now what we believe is a realistic assumption that we will get through the throughput and the reliability numbers that we are currently planning, it is just a temporary buffer investment, that has to be shared between the customer and between ASML. So we're just going to hedge the customer together with us on the making sure that the output capacity of what they are planning on the 10 nanometer ramp is, in any case, secured.

此外，當我們運送這些工具時，重要的是客戶會計算他們需要多少工具，就這些工具的功能而言，其中會有一定程度的安全緩衝。現在，我們相信一個現實的假設是，我們將實現我們目前計劃的吞吐量和可靠性數字，這只是一個臨時的緩衝投資，必須由客戶和 ASML 之間共享。因此，我們只是要與客戶一起確保他們在 10 奈米坡道上規劃的輸出能力無論如何都是有保障的。

Okay, that's helpful. And then just as a follow-on, I was wondering if maybe you could also help us understand a little bit about the cost of ownership of an EUV platform beyond just throughput, things like power consumption and consumables, and how that is coming into play in terms of customer decisions?

好的，這很有幫助。然後作為後續問題，我想知道您是否可以幫助我們了解 EUV 平台的擁有成本，不僅是吞吐量，還包括功耗和消耗品等，以及這些在客戶決策方面如何影響？

That's a pretty complicated decision that customers need to make, but I can assure you that customers are focusing on the, let's say, the cost benefits on the product level that makes them to decide for EUV. Yes, there are certainly infrastructural changes that need to happen in those fabs. You mentioned things like power consumption; you mentioned things like maintenance. That is all going to happen, but that is included in the cost calculation that our customers do. And that means that with those indications that we gave them -- which are many, so I'm not going to go into detail there -- they came to the conclusion that the one layer -- one or two layers for the shrink only is absolutely a necessity. And for the further layer growth, so let's say seven, it is all driven by the economics.

這是客戶需要做出的一個相當複雜的決定，但我可以向你保證，客戶關注的是產品層面的成本效益，這使得他們決定選擇 EUV。是的，這些晶圓廠確實需要進行基礎設施變革。您提到了諸如電力消耗之類的事情；您提到了維護之類的事情。這一切都會發生，但這包含在我們客戶的成本計算中。這意味著，根據我們向他們提供的指示（指示有很多，因此我不會詳細闡述），他們得出結論：一層——收縮一層或兩層是絕對必要的。至於進一步的層級成長，比如說第七層，這完全是由經濟驅動的。

And then part of the running cost, as you mentioned, and the throughput, are all part of that equation. So, for the shrink-only step, I would say is -- that is less of an issue than when you want to move to more layers, because then it is really an economical decision.

然後，正如您所提到的，部分運行成本和吞吐量都是該等式的一部分。因此，對於僅縮小步驟，我想說的是 - 與您想要移動到更多層相比，這不是什麼問題，因為那確實是一個經濟的決定。

Very helpful. Thank you.

非常有幫助。謝謝。

Satya Kumar, Credit Suisse.

瑞士信貸的 Satya Kumar。

Thanks for taking my question. I was wondering if you could comment a little bit about the DRAM upside that you talked about earlier? Do you now expect to see a higher bit supply growth for DRAM, as a result of the upside in orders that you are seeing? Or is there something else also happening in the DRAM in terms of lithography intensity? Because some of their customers are talking about moving to double patterning, and we do know mobile DRAM has a higher die size cost. So could you talk a little bit about the impact on supply growth and whether these orders are for technology or capacity?

感謝您回答我的問題。我想知道您是否可以對您之前談到的 DRAM 優勢發表一些評論？由於訂單增加，您是否預期 DRAM 的供應量將出現更高的成長？或者就光刻強度而言，DRAM 中是否還發生了其他變化？因為他們的一些客戶正在談論轉向雙重圖案化，而且我們確實知道行動 DRAM 的晶片尺寸成本更高。那麼，您能否談談對供應成長的影響以及這些訂單是針對技術還是產能？

It's a very good question. If we think about DRAM in terms of -- you're asking the question specifically on DRAM, I suppose -- then, yes, there is definitely a case of higher litho intensity for the next nodes. There are more layers, and the more immersion-related layers and also double patterning comes into play.

這是一個非常好的問題。如果我們從 DRAM 的角度來考慮 DRAM — — 我想您正在專門詢問有關 DRAM 的問題 — — 那麼，是的，下一個節點的光刻強度肯定會更高。層數更多，與浸沒相關的層數也更多，而且雙重圖案化也開始發揮作用。

Now if you combine that with the -- with what we have seen over the last 18 to 24 months, in a situation where the DRAM market was in overcapacity and the economics in that industry were not very good, we also saw the tendency to basically do rotations out of DRAM into leading-edge NAND. So if you combine leading-edge litho out of the DRAM into NAND with the introduction of the new products requiring a higher litho intensity, then it is not a surprise that when you look at the capacity of wafer starts, that even with the additions that we see today, we do not expect that the wafer starts capacity will grow this year. Actually, as a matter fact, at best, it will stay flat, but it could even decrease a little. And that is because of the two reasons I just mentioned -- litho intensity for the new nodes, and basically the rotation of leading-edge immersion from DRAM to NAND.

現在，如果將其與我們在過去 18 到 24 個月中看到的情況結合起來，在 DRAM 市場產能過剩且該行業經濟狀況不佳的情況下，我們還看到了從 DRAM 轉向尖端 NAND 的趨勢。因此，如果將 DRAM 中的尖端光刻技術應用於 NAND，再加上需要更高光刻強度的新產品的推出，那麼，當您查看晶圓的開工容量時，即使看到今天的新增產能，我們也不認為今年晶圓的開工容量會增長，這並不奇怪。事實上，在最好的情況下，它會保持平穩，甚至可能會略有下降。這是因為我剛才提到的兩個原因——新節點的光刻強度，以及從 DRAM 到 NAND 的前沿浸沒式技術的輪換。

And that is escalated by the fact that, as you mentioned, we believe DRAM mobile chips are a bit bigger, not that much bigger. It is about 5% bigger. But as you said, that is where demand is. If you put it all together, it's not a surprise that we currently see the demand from the DRAM customers being that high.

正如您所說，我們認為 DRAM 行動晶片會稍微大一點，但不會大很多，這一事實進一步加劇了這種情況。它大約大5%。但正如你所說，那裡有需求。如果把所有這些因素綜合起來，我們目前看到 DRAM 客戶的需求如此之高也就不足為奇了。

Got it. Very helpful. And then on the foundry side, is the order send that you're expecting to see, and especially if I look at the guidance in play for Q4 sales, it seems like it is significantly higher than Q3, is that concentrated towards one foundry customer? Or are you seeing activity from multiple foundry customers? And, broadly speaking, what do you see as the current capability of the foundry part of the industry, in terms of the readiness to ramp FinFET-based designs? Thanks.

知道了。非常有幫助。然後在代工方面，您是否期望看到訂單發送，特別是如果我查看第四季度銷售指導，似乎它明顯高於第三季度，這是否集中在一個代工客戶身上？或者您看到來自多個代工客戶的活動？並且，從廣義上講，就基於 FinFET 的設計的準備情況而言，您認為目前代工行業的能力如何？謝謝。

Yes, when you look at Q4, it's also -- there's a couple of questions in there -- if you look at Q4, definitely you can do the math -- our guidance was our guidance for Q3. Yes, Q4 is going to be -- it's going to be a large quarter. That means that from a logic point of view, there has not been a lot of change. I mean, it is largely the memory customers that have upped their demand on us. And we also said it in the previous call, we have decided to build some buffers at the beginning of the year. So that's going to help deal with that upside in a relatively short time frame.

是的，當你看第四季度時，它也是 - 其中有幾個問題 - 如果你看第四季度，你肯定可以做計算 - 我們的指導是我們對第三季度的指導。是的，第四季將會是一個重要的季度。這意味著從邏輯角度來看，並沒有太大的改變。我的意思是，主要是記憶體客戶對我們的要求提高了。我們在上次電話會議上也說過，我們決定在年初就建立一些緩衝區。因此，這將有助於在相對較短的時間內解決此問題。

But for logic, I said it in my introduction speech, there is one large foundry customer that is currently aggressively ramping the 20 nanometer node. And clearly, we have discussions with all the customers also. I think it is inevitable that all the customers will also follow in this respect.

但從邏輯上講，我在介紹演講中說過，有一家大型代工客戶目前正在積極推進 20 奈米節點。顯然，我們也與所有客戶進行了討論。我認為所有客戶也必然會在這方面效法。

And your last question was on FinFET? Could you repeat it again, Satya?

您的最後一個問題是關於 FinFET 的嗎？薩蒂亞，你能再說一次嗎？

Yes, just how do you see readiness of the foundry industry in terms of its ability to ramp FinFET?

是的，您如何看待代工產業在提升 FinFET 能力方面的準備？

Well, we don't have that visibility. You should ask our foundry customers.

嗯，我們沒有那麼高的可見度。你應該問問我們的代工客戶。

Got it. Thanks.

知道了。謝謝。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

邁赫迪·胡賽尼（Mehdi Hosseini），SIG。

Yes, thanks for taking my question and, Eric, best of luck with your -- at the next endeavor you're pursuing. As a follow-up to Satya's question, how should we think about sustainability of DRAM spending into next year, especially if the EUV progress were to continue? And I'm under the assumption that DRAM is going to be the first segment to adopt EUV.

是的，感謝您回答我的問題，埃里克，祝您在接下來的努力中一切順利。作為對 Satya 問題的後續回答，我們應該如何看待明年 DRAM 支出的可持續性，特別是如果 EUV 進展繼續下去的話？我假設 DRAM 將成為第一個採用 EUV 的領域。

Okay, DRAM is -- it's sort of in the -- sorry, EUV is -- the way that we see it currently in 2016. So when you talk about the 2014 DRAM ramp, it is not affected by any EUV program, other than some of our customers will take indeed to the first EUV systems -- the 3300 systems -- to start prototyping, and basically preparing for the 2016 DRAM -- sorry -- EUV introduction in DRAM.

好的，DRAM 是 - 有點 - 抱歉，EUV 是 - 就像我們在 2016 年目前看到的那樣。因此，當您談論 DRAM 在 2014 年的成長時，它不會受到任何 EUV 計劃的影響，除了我們的一些客戶確實會採用第一個 EUV 系統 - 3300 系統 - 開始進行原型設計，並且基本上為 2016 年 DRAM 做準備 - 抱歉 - EUV 在 DRAM 中的引入。

For 2014, like I said earlier, the DRAM wafer out capacity still stays flat, even with the latest additions. And I would say, at best, stays flat. So that means that I do expect that also in 2014 we will see some confirmation of the pressure on us to supply machines.

對於 2014 年，正如我之前所說，即使有最新增加的產能，DRAM 晶圓產能仍然保持穩定。我想說，最好的情況下，保持平穩。所以，這意味著我確實預計，2014 年我們將會確認自己面臨供應機器的壓力。

Isn't it a material change, because I was expecting that at least one of the Korean customers were to adopt EUV for DRAM sometime in 2014?

這不是一個重大變化嗎？因為我預計至少有一家韓國客戶會在 2014 年某個時候採用 EUV 來生產 DRAM？

We don't think so. I mean, 2014, they will take tools to start doing the prototyping and to start doing the qualification process. But it doesn't mean in 2014 they start producing DRAM using EUV. That's 2016.

我們不這麼認為。我的意思是，2014 年，他們將採用工具開始進行原型設計並開始進行資格認證過程。但這並不意味著他們在 2014 年開始使用 EUV 生產 DRAM。那是 2016 年。

Sure. So in other words, in 2016, we should see DRAM and foundry or logic one or two layers putting EUV into production?

當然。那麼換句話說，2016 年，我們應該會看到 DRAM 和代工廠或邏輯一層或兩層將 EUV 投入生產？

Correct. And it could be by 2016, that we have mastered the 125 wafers per hour as we think, and that it will be more in logic than 1 to 2 layers. It will be 5 to 7 layers.

正確的。到 2016 年，我們可能就能達到我們所想的每小時 125 個晶圓的速度，而且從邏輯上講，這將比 1 到 2 層更多。它將有5到7層。

Sure. And my follow-ups, just quickly, on 60 nanometer, again, one or two foundries are putting risk production. As you do your own planning for next year, as you think about your own internal capacity, how are you managing the expectation for 16 -- I'm sorry -- for 14 nanometer ramp? Because this is quite different than the Taiwanese customer that has a good, solid track record. How do you manage the risk associated with a 14 nanometer ramp? That could be significant.

當然。我的後續問題是，在 60 奈米方面，有一兩家代工廠正在進行風險生產。當您為明年做計劃時，當您考慮自己的內部產能時，您如何管理對 16 奈米（對不起）14 奈米坡道的期望？因為這與擁有良好、穩固業績記錄的台灣客戶截然不同。您如何管理與 14 奈米升級相關的風險？這可能意義重大。

From our point of view, there is no risk. The simple reason that for the 14 nanometer or 16 nanometer FinFET node, we use the same litho machine as for 20. So it is the same pitch. So it's not -- for us it's not a problem. You could even say it extends that node from a litho point of view from our point of view with one year, which means a better learning curve. So that's okay.

從我們的角度來看，不存在任何風險。原因很簡單，對於 14 奈米或 16 奈米 FinFET 節點，我們使用與 20 相同的光刻機。所以音調是一樣的。所以對我們來說這不是問題。你甚至可以說，從我們的角度來看，它從光刻的角度用一年的時間擴展了這個節點，這意味著更好的學習曲線。所以沒關係。

So I think the risk for that introduction is with the customer in the sense that, of course, they need to do it. We just need to provide the same litho solution as we did for 20 nanometer.

因此我認為這種引入的風險在於客戶，當然他們需要這樣做。我們只需要提供與 20 奈米相同的光刻解決方案。

But for internal planning, there could be one customer or three, wouldn't that impact your own internal capacity allocation or just planning?

但對於內部規劃，可能有一個或三個客戶，這不會影響您自己的內部產能分配或只是規劃嗎？

Yes, I mean, when you talk about our internal capacity, our internal capacity is sufficient to do one point -- on a lesser -- on a standalone basis, [EUR1.6 billion to EUR1.7 billion] of sales. So we're not there yet. So let them give us a chance and we'll deal with it.

是的，我的意思是，當你談到我們的內部產能時，我們的內部產能足以在獨立的基礎上實現一點（較小一點）的銷售額[16 億歐元到 17 億歐元]。所以我們還沒有到達那裡。所以讓他們給我們一個機會，我們會處理的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Amit Harchandani, Citigroup.

花旗集團的阿米特·哈爾錢達尼 (Amit Harchandani)。

Amit Harchandani from Citigroup. Thanks for taking my questions. Actually, more clarification from my side, maybe a couple.

花旗集團的阿米特‧哈昌達尼 (Amit Harchandani)。感謝您回答我的問題。實際上，我這邊還需要進一步澄清，也許有幾個。

Firstly, in terms of the EUV demand, if I heard correctly earlier in the call, you said that at the current level of 40 wafers per hour, probably around 12 to 15 tools in 2015 for EUV. And if it goes up to 125 then wafers per hour -- and clearly you're looking at 25 to 30. Just wanted to confirm that was correct.

首先，就 EUV 需求而言，如果我在電話會議中沒有聽錯的話，您說按照目前每小時 40 片晶圓的產量水平，2015 年 EUV 大概需要 12 到 15 個設備。如果每小時產量上升到 125 片晶圓 — — 顯然是 25 到 30 片。只是想確認這是正確的。

And, secondly, in terms of the non-EUV tool requirement or tool sale, we are probably looking at somewhere, I guess, probably [EUR3.7 billion to EUR4 billion] for this year in terms of non-EUV sales. Do you think that level is maintained as we go to towards 2015 and '16? Or does EUV start kind of [rising the same]? Thank you.

其次，就非 EUV 工具需求或工具銷售而言，我們今年的非 EUV 銷售額大概在 [37 億歐元至 40 億歐元] 之間。您認為在 2015 年和 2016 年，這一水準還能維持下去嗎？或者 EUV 是否開始以某種方式 [上升]？謝謝。

Okay, good. On your first question, yes, the point that Eric tried to make it his introduction statement is that, even if we would be -- if we would stay at where we currently are, 40 wafers per hour -- which is, of course, not what our plan is -- but even if it would be the case, then it is still economical for our customers to still buy that tool. Why? They can do one layer whereby they can increase their shrink factor from 1.5, 1.6, to 1.8, which is a significant economic benefit, even if at that low throughput. That's what he was trying to say.

好的，很好。關於你的第一個問題，是的，Eric 試圖在介紹中提出的觀點是，即使我們 - 如果我們保持目前的水平，每小時 40 片晶圓 - 這當然不是我們的計劃 - 但即使是這樣，那麼對於我們的客戶來說，購買該工具仍然是經濟的。為什麼？他們可以做一層，從而將收縮係數從 1.5、1.6 增加到 1.8，即使在吞吐量較低的情況下，這也是一個顯著的經濟效益。這就是他想說的話。

And that would mean that you can then calculate what would the need for the industry be in the logic industry for just this one layer would be 12 to 15 units. Now we expect not to stay at 40; we will go higher. So when we are at 125 wafers, or even over 100 wafers, then we will have to use our maximum capacity that we have in Veldhoven, which is between 25 and 30 systems in the year 2015. If the demand could be higher, but we cannot make more. So in that sense, if that is your understanding, then it is indeed correct.

這意味著您可以計算出邏輯產業中僅這一層的需求量為 12 到 15 個單位。現在我們期望不要停留在40歲；我們會走得更高。因此，當我們的生產量達到 125 個晶圓，甚至超過 100 個晶圓時，我們就必須使用我們在 Veldhoven 的最大產能，即 2015 年的系統數量在 25 到 30 個之間。如果需求可以更高，但我們不能生產更多。所以從這個意義上來說，如果這是你的理解，那麼它確實是正確的。

On the non-EUV requirement, [EUR3.7 billion to EUR4 billion] in sales. We expect even with the introduction of significant EUV sales, where they are going to use EUV for the critical layers, there is going to be a significant EUV -- sorry, a non-EUV requirement. That has to do with the fact that the complexity rises; number of layers goes up. And what are now critical layers will become non-critical layers, and they will still need the immersion machines, some of them even at a double patterning level.

對於非 EUV 要求，銷售額為 [37 億歐元至 40 億歐元]。我們預計，即使引入大量 EUV 銷售，他們將在關鍵層上使用 EUV，也會有相當數量的 EUV——抱歉，是非 EUV 要求。這與複雜性的增加有關；層數增加。現在的關鍵層將成為非關鍵層，它們仍然需要浸沒式機器，其中一些甚至是雙重圖案等級的。

So, we don't believe there are going to be a significant reduction in the non-EUV requirements for our tools. Whether it is going to be [EUR3.7 billion to EUR4 billion] is not known, with what I mean significant, it's definitely not going to [have]. It's going to be more than that. So, it's -- it is too early to give you a direct guidance, but a very significant part of our business will still be immersion.

因此，我們認為我們的工具對非 EUV 的要求不會大幅減少。目前還不清楚是否會達到 [37 億歐元至 40 億歐元]，我所說的顯著數字，肯定不會達到。事實遠不止於此。所以，現在給你直接的指導還為時過早，但我們業務中非常重要的一部分仍然是沉浸式體驗。

Thank you very much. And all the best, Eric, for your future endeavors.

非常感謝。祝埃里克未來一切順利。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Didier Scemama, Merrill Lynch.

美林證券的迪迪埃‧斯凱瑪瑪 (Didier Scemama)。

Thanks for taking my questions. Congratulations, Peter, for your first conference call as the CEO, and greetings to Eric. (multiple speakers) My question is related to gross margins. I was just wondering whether you could maybe give us a sense, quantify the headwinds you see on gross margin in the second half, and perhaps persisting into '14, coming from the increasing capacity for EUV, and in fact, perhaps even [450] if that's relevant.

感謝您回答我的問題。彼得，祝賀你作為執行長首次召開電話會議，並向艾瑞克問好。（多位發言者）我的問題與毛利率有關。我只是想知道您是否可以給我們一個量化的印象，看看您認為下半年毛利率面臨的阻力，以及這種阻力是否將持續到2014年，這種阻力來自於 EUV 產能的增加，事實上，如果相關的話，甚至可能是 [450]。

And then second, on the split of immersion tools between 28 nanometer logic and 20, whether you could give us a sense of how much is 20 in the second half? How much is still 28? Whether it's still shipping, in fact.

其次，關於 28 奈米邏輯和 20 奈米邏輯之間浸入式工具的劃分，您能否告訴我們下半部 20 奈米的比例是多少？28還是多少？事實上，它是否仍在運輸。

Okay. To quantify the headwinds, well, like I said, we do have EUV-related costs at this moment because we are building up the capacity, and we are increasing the gross margin on our main products. So, in any case, that is where we find some level of compensation. It is obvious, then, where we ship the first EUV tools, the EUV -- well, we have significantly increasing gross margin for our normal EUV business. Our planning for the EUV gross margins, when we start shipping them, is in the 20s, in the areas of 20s, while we are clearly above 40 for the non-EUV system. So it's about half.

好的。為了量化逆風，嗯，就像我說的，我們目前確實有與 EUV 相關的成本，因為我們正在提高產能，並且正在提高主要產品的毛利率。所以，無論如何，我們都找到了一定程度的補償。很明顯，我們在哪裡運送第一批 EUV 工具，EUV——嗯，我們正常的 EUV 業務的毛利率顯著提高。當我們開始出貨時，我們計劃的 EUV 毛利率在 20% 左右，而非 EUV 系統的毛利率則明顯高於 40%。大約是一半。

That means that if we have a significant number of EUV tools shipping the next couple of quarters, that means that it will have an effect on the gross margin of the Company. And you can actually calculate it, I mean, that we are about half of the gross margin, then it is not that difficult.

這意味著，如果我們在接下來的幾季中出貨大量 EUV 工具，這將對公司的毛利率產生影響。而且你實際上可以計算一下，我的意思是，我們的毛利率大約是一半，那麼這並不是那麼困難。

So it will have an impact. It will have an impact of a couple of percentage points. But that, of course, like we said in previous conference calls, will take some time. We need volume. We need volume not so much in our own factory, which is an element, but more importantly, we need volume in the supply chain. In order to drive cost down in the supply chain, we need a learning curve. And learning curve goes faster when we have the higher volume. So, when we follow our volume ramp plan, which actually is using our capacity in 2015, 25 to 30 units, and doubling that in 2016, by that time, we should be back at our corporate average gross margins.

所以會產生影響。這將產生幾個百分點的影響。但當然，正如我們在之前的電話會議中所說的那樣，這需要一些時間。我們需要音量。我們需要的不僅僅是我們自己工廠的產量，這是一個因素，更重要的是，我們需要供應鏈的產量。為了降低供應鏈成本，我們需要一個學習曲線。當我們擁有更高的音量時，學習曲線會變得更快。因此，當我們按照產量提升計劃進行時，實際上就是在 2015 年使用我們的產能，即 25 到 30 個單位，並在 2016 年將其翻一番，到那時，我們的毛利率應該會回到公司平均水平。

So, it will take some time, but the -- so you will see a gradual improvement as we go, until we have reached the corporate average as we see it today. But that is driven by largely volume. And, yes, we have to take into account the next couple of quarters with some gross margin percentage points impacted because of the early EUV shipments.

所以，這需要一些時間，但是——隨著我們的進步，你會看到逐步的改善，直到我們達到今天所看到的企業平均值。但這很大程度是由數量決定的。是的，我們必須考慮到接下來的幾個季度，由於早期 EUV 出貨量，一些毛利率百分點會受到影響。

Can you talk about the mix of 20 nanometer scanners? Is that all you are shipping right now?

您能談談 20 奈米掃描儀的混合嗎？這就是你們現在運送的全部貨物嗎？

No, the mix this year -- to give you an indication, I think, of the capacity that we ship for logic, which was logical 28 and 40 -- sorry, 28 and 20 -- about 40% of that shipment capacity was on 20 nanometer, about 60% was on 28. So 28 was largely the first half of the year tailing off in the second half of the year, and 40 -- sorry, 20 nanometer really ramping in the second half of the year, and then accounting for about 40% of our total immersion shipments to the logic industry.

不，我想，今年的組合——給你一個跡象，表明我們邏輯產品的出貨容量，也就是邏輯 28 和 40——抱歉，是 28 和 20——大約 40% 的出貨容量是在 20 奈米，大約 60% 是在 28 奈米。因此，28 奈米主要是在上半年，在下半年逐漸減少，而 40 奈米——抱歉，20 奈米主要在下半年開始成長，占我們向邏輯產業總浸沒式出貨量的 40% 左右。

Got it. And my quick follow-up in one word. I think last time, or last couple of quarters, you talked to us and you said that you felt like 20 nanometer capacity at foundries would be, I think, in the range of 40,000 to 60,000 wafer starts per month?

知道了。我用一個字來快速跟進。我想上次，或最近幾個季度，您和我們談過，您說您覺得代工廠的 20 奈米產能將在每月 40,000 到 60,000 片晶圓之間？

Yes.

是的。

Can you update on that? And, second, if you could give us your thoughts on how much wafer capacity we could see at logic customers exiting in 2014, that'd be great, thank you.

能更新一下嗎？其次，如果您能告訴我們，2014 年邏輯客戶退出時晶圓產能將有多少，那就太好了，謝謝。

For 2013, I can answer that question rather specifically. I think with the 40% of our shipments, which I mentioned as an answer to your first question, I think we will add 60,000 wafer starts capacity by the end of the year, which, of course, customer will take some time to turn that capacity that we ship into output. But it is about 60,000, yes? So that is what we see today. (multiple speakers) --

對於2013年，我可以相當具體地回答這個問題。我認為，憑藉我們 40% 的出貨量（我在回答你的第一個問題時提到過），到今年年底，我們將增加 60,000 片晶圓的產能，當然，客戶需要一些時間才能將我們出貨的產能轉化為產出。但大約有 60,000 個，是嗎？這就是我們今天所看到的情況。（多位發言者）——

Right.

正確的。

Now, for (multiple speakers) 2014, it's too early, because we haven't finalized yet all the shipment plans with our customers for the next 18 months. For the next 12 months, we have, but it only covers the first half of 2014, so I cannot answer your question on the end of 2014 yet.

現在，對於（多位發言者）2014 年來說還為時過早，因為我們還沒有與客戶最終確定未來 18 個月的所有發貨計劃。對於未來 12 個月，我們已經制定了計劃，但只涵蓋 2014 年上半年，因此我目前還無法回答您關於 2014 年底的問題。

What is it then for May 2014?

那麼 2014 年 5 月的情況如何？

I don't have the data immediately here. Perhaps you can follow up with Craig and with Franki. I have the 2013 data in my head. (multiple speakers)

我這裡沒有立即的數據。也許您可以跟進 Craig 和 Franki。我腦子裡有 2013 年的數據。（多位發言者）

Brilliant. Thanks very much.

傑出的。非常感謝。

Andrew Gardner, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的安德魯·加德納。

I have a couple more around gross margin dynamics. Peter, you've highlighted the drag at the moment from the Cymer acquisition, from the pressure that you will see as you ramp EUV from a lower level towards the corporate gross margin. But sort of looking beyond that, and thinking about what you've described for holistic litho and with YieldStar in that, and I think you guys had said previously that you are aiming for something around EUR800 million of revenue a few years from now. Also, there's a positive impact, albeit perhaps small, from the Intel customer co-investment program coming through the revenue and gross margin line. So, ultimately, what's to prevent you guys from reporting gross margins into the high 40% range?

我還有一些關於毛利率動態的問題。彼得，您強調了 Cymer 收購目前帶來的拖累，以及當您將 EUV 從較低水平提升至企業毛利率時將面臨的壓力。但從更廣闊的視角來看，想想你們所描述的整體光刻技術以及 YieldStar，我想你們之前曾說過，你們的目標是在幾年後實現約 8 億歐元的收入。此外，英特爾客戶共同投資計畫對收入和毛利率也產生了積極影響，儘管影響可能很小。那麼，最終是什麼原因導致你們的毛利率無法達到 40% 的高點呢？

Yes, I think -- it's a very good question. You just hit on the, I think, one point I think the co-investment program impact is more or less an accounting impact. But -- so I would like to leave that to one side. Yes, I think the impact of the non-EUV product portfolio is going to be more significant, because of the fact that the holistic litho product portfolio carries a lot of software. So that is going to be [and added] to the gross margin.

是的，我認為——這是一個非常好的問題。我認為，你剛才提到了一點，我認為共同投資計畫的影響或多或少是一種會計影響。但是——所以我想把這個放在一邊。是的，我認為非 EUV 產品組合的影響將更加顯著，因為整體光刻產品組合包含大量軟體。所以這將會加到毛利率中。

Now once we are at volume production EUV -- which, by 2016, if we do 60 units, you could argue that we are there -- then we should definitely also see the benefits of the -- of that volume coming through the supply chain. But on top of that, we have now insourced the EUV source, which actually means that the gross margin that would normally go through a supplier now goes to the bottom line of ASML. So your high 40s assessment of where we could be is definitely not an unrealistic one.

現在，一旦我們實現 EUV 的量產——到 2016 年，如果我們生產 60 台，那麼你就可以認為我們已經實現了——那麼我們肯定也應該看到透過供應鏈實現量產帶來的好處。但除此之外，我們現在已將 EUV 源內部化，這實際上意味著通常透過供應商獲得的毛利率現在進入了 ASML 的底線。因此，你對我們可能達到的 40 多歲的預期絕對不是一個不切實際的預測。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande。

Sorry, actually, Peter, thanks for letting me on. Just, again, actually talking about this gross margin, your guidance of 40% gross margin, and you said in your introductory remarks that it would be somewhere 43%, 44%, if it was not for the impacts of the Cymer acquisition.

抱歉，彼得，謝謝你讓我加入。再說一遍，實際上談論這個毛利率，您指導的毛利率為 40%，並且您在開場白中說過，如果不是因為 Cymer 收購的影響，毛利率將在 43% 或 44% 左右。

So would you quantify that how long that impact the Cymer acquisition will impact your gross margin, so that we could take it as one of associated with that? And then model beyond that, as such. And then I have a follow-up as well. (multiple speakers) And there is also, I guess, an impact on the gross margin in the short-term from your investments in EUV, which are not resulting in revenue.

那麼，您能否量化一下 Cymer 收購對您的毛利率的影響將持續多長時間，以便我們將其作為與此相關的因素之一？然後以此為基礎進行建模。然後我還有一個後續行動。（多位講者）而且我猜想，你們對 EUV 的投資短期內也會對毛利率產生影響，因為這些投資不會產生收入。

That's correct. On the latter point, I said -- I say the 43% to 44% is, of course, the rest of EUV cost in there that are being absorbed by the fact that we have good gross margin on our base business. So that's in there. And I said that before.

沒錯。關於後一點，我說——當然，43%到44%是其中剩餘的EUV成本，這些成本被我們基礎業務的良好毛利率所吸收。這就是它。我之前就說過了。

Now on the impact in the second half, has to do with the fact that, in the purchase price -- now I gave you a small lesson in accounting, I can't help it -- but we have to revalue at the moment of a purchase of a company, we have to revalue the assets at fair value -- which, of course, is clear for the intangibles and the earnings power on the DPV business and the installed base business, but also you have to do that on inventory.

現在關於下半年的影響，與購買價格有關 - 現在我給你上了一堂小小的會計課，我沒辦法 - 但我們必須在購買公司時重新評估，我們必須以公允價值重新評估資產 - 當然，這對於無形資產和 DPV 業務和已安裝基礎業務的盈利能力是顯而易見的，但你也必須對庫存這樣做。

Now while the inventory at Cymer is all on order, it means that the fair value of something that is on order, where you have in the order that you cannot cancel, the fair value is then brought up to the sales price. So, in fact, the first six months that Cymer sales of its inventory, they don't make any money. Because it is already taken up in, let's say, the opening balance sheet of Cymer. It has been, you could say, jacked up through the sales price. And that goes away in six months' time. So this [EUR60 million], about 75% of that is taken in the third quarter and the remainder in the fourth quarter, and then it's gone.

現在，雖然 Cymer 的庫存都是已訂購的，但這意味著已訂購商品的公允價值（如果您的訂單中存在無法取消的商品）將上升到銷售價格。因此，事實上，Cymer 銷售庫存的前六個月並沒有賺到任何錢。因為它已經被納入 Cymer 的期初資產負債表中。可以說，它已經透過銷售價格被提高了。六個月後，這種情況就會消失。因此，這 [6000 萬歐元] 中約有 75% 是在第三季度提取的，剩餘部分是在第四季度提取的，然後就用完了。

Okay.

好的。

So it's an accounting adjustment that non-cash that has to do with the revaluation of those assets.

因此，這是與這些資產的重估有關的非現金會計調整。

Okay.

好的。

On the other elements, there is about a [EUR10 million] per quarter amortization of intangibles, which also has to do with this revaluation of those assets, which is basically the earnings power, the discounted cash flow of the earnings power of the business that you have bought. That will be amortized over a 15-year period, so it is between [EUR8 million and EUR10 million] per quarter that we will book and that will go into the gross margin line. But I think, looking at the size of the Company, that is going to be relatively negligible.

在其他要素方面，每季無形資產攤銷約為 [1000 萬歐元]，這也與這些資產的重估有關，這基本上是盈利能力，即您所購買的企業盈利能力的折現現金流。該金額將在 15 年內攤銷，因此我們每季的帳面金額將在 [800 萬歐元至 1000 萬歐元] 之間，併計入毛利率。但我認為，考慮到公司的規模，這個數字相對來說可以忽略不計。

And as a last element, which is the -- when we acquired Cymer, we had a remeasurement date of these share plans of those Cymer shares that turned into ASML shares. And that over the next -- until the end of next year -- I think the first quarter of 2015, will create a compensation expense, which we need to book. And that will show up in several lines -- will be in the R&D line, because it relates to people; will be in SG&A line, because it relates to people; will be in the gross margin line, because it relates to people. So that will be spread all over.

最後一點是，當我們收購 Cymer 時，我們對轉換為 ASML 股票的 Cymer 股票的股票計劃有一個重新計量日期。在接下來的時間裡——直到明年年底——我認為 2015 年第一季度，將會產生我們需要記帳的薪資費用。這將體現在幾條線上——將在研發線上，因為它與人有關；將屬於銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A) 範疇，因為它與人有關；將會在毛利率線內，因為它與人有關。所以這將會傳遍各地。

Those are all accounting adjustments which are non-cash, but it has to -- but it is released. So I think that is really the major impact. When you think about gross margins, you have to think about the base business. Now the ASML base business consists of our immersion business and our holistic application business, which very good gross margins.

這些都是非現金的會計調整，但必須——但它已被釋放。所以我認為這確實是一個重大影響。當你考慮毛利率時，你必須考慮基礎業務。現在ASML的基礎業務包括我們的浸沒式業務和整體應用業務，毛利率非常好。

We have -- the next two years, we have the ramp-up of EUV, which will have a dilutive effect when we start. It is inevitable, but the numbers won't be that big. So that is ASML.

未來兩年，我們將加大 EUV 的投入，這在我們開始時將產生稀釋效應。這是不可避免的，但數字不會那麼大。這就是 ASML。

Cymer has very good gross margins, because they have an installed base business, which is very profitable with very healthy gross margins. And I said earlier you can refer to the Cymer historical financial statements that you can see what that is. So from an operational point of view, I think the gross margins are healthy. But they will be impacted by some accounting adjustments, and over the next two years, by the introduction of EUV. And I think I explained that in the previous answer.

Cymer 的毛利率非常好，因為他們擁有已安裝的基礎業務，該業務利潤豐厚，毛利率也非常健康。我之前說過，你可以參考 Cymer 的歷史財務報表，你就能知道那是什麼。因此從營運角度來看，我認為毛利率是健康的。但它們將受到一些會計調整的影響，並且在未來兩年內，也將受到 EUV 引入的影響。我想我在之前的回答中已經解釋過這一點了。

Thanks, Peter. That was very comprehensive. Just my follow-up question is regarding those tools you have talked about in previous questions, that potentially, that if you do 40 wafers per hour, you could ship potentially 15 EUV tools in 2015. I mean, does this indicate, based on what you said, that your intensive contacts with some of your customers -- because when you look at the number of fabs some of your customers have, if you're only going to ship 15 tools, it would mean virtually if it's two customers, you're shipping one tool per fab or something like that. Is that how we are looking at the initial rollout of EUV? Or is it not going to be -- is it going to be a couple of tools for fab that are required for, say, one or two layers, if you're going to introduce one or two-layer EUV in 2015?

謝謝，彼得。那非常全面。我的後續問題是關於您在先前的問題中談到的那些工具，如果您每小時生產 40 片晶圓，那麼您可以在 2015 年交付 15 台 EUV 工具。我的意思是，根據您所說的，這是否表明您與某些客戶有密切的聯繫 - 因為當您查看某些客戶擁有的晶圓廠數量時，如果您只打算運送 15 種工具，這實際上意味著如果是兩個客戶，您將向每個晶圓廠運送一種工具或類似的東西。這就是我們看待 EUV 首次推出的方式嗎？或者不會——如果您要在 2015 年推出一層或兩層的 EUV，那麼是否需要一些用於一層或兩層的晶圓廠工具？

Yes, I think when we think about 12 to 15 units, you talk basically about the way we are planning it now, in that timeframe of 2015, only two logic customers.

是的，我認為當我們考慮 12 到 15 個單位時，您基本上談論的是我們現在計劃的方式，在 2015 年的時間範圍內，只有兩個邏輯客戶。

Okay, understood.

好的，明白了。

Mahesh Sanganeria, RBC Capital Markets.

Mahesh Sanganeria，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Peter, there is a lot of discussion on gross margin. But can you give us an indication of what the OpEx will be for next several quarters? How should we think about modeling OpEx?

彼得，關於毛利率的討論很多。但是您能否告訴我們未來幾季的營運支出是多少？我們該如何思考對 OpEx 進行建模？

I think when you look at OpEx, it consists of R&D and of SG&A. Our R&D spend this year was going to zoom in on [EUR800 million] gross. That was before the contribution of the co-investment program. We said in the previous call that could grow to around [EUR900 million] next year. Cymer's R&D is just above EUR100 million. Now we are now guiding on [EUR245 million] per quarter for the third quarter. And it is my assessment that we will not go over the [EUR1 billion] if you put the two companies together. So that is the [EUR900 million] next year, plus about EUR100 million of Cymer, and our current plan is to stay within the [EUR1 billion], so that's [EUR250 million] per quarter.

我認為，當你查看營運支出時，它包括研發費用和銷售、一般及行政費用。我們今年的研發支出總額將增加至 [8 億歐元]。那是在共同投資計劃貢獻之前。我們在上次電話會議上說過，明年這一數字可能會成長到約 [9 億歐元]。Cymer 的研發投入略高於 1 億歐元。現在，我們對第三季的指導價為每季 [2.45 億歐元]。而且我的評估是，如果將兩家公司合併，我們的投資金額不會超過 [10 億歐元]。所以這是明年的 [9 億歐元]，加上 Cymer 的約 1 億歐元，我們目前的計劃是保持在 [10 億歐元] 以內，也就是每季 [2.5 億歐元]。

On SG&A, the run rate is about [EUR65 million] for ASML, about [EUR13 million, EUR14 million] for Cymer, so it is just under [EUR80 million] run rate. We guided [EUR91 million] but it has [EUR10 million] in there as a result of some reorganization charges that we are taking today.

在銷售、一般及行政費用方面，ASML 的運行率約為 [6,500 萬歐元]，Cymer 的運行率約為 [1,300 萬歐元、1,400 萬歐元]，因此略低於 [8,000 萬歐元] 的運行率。我們預計該金額為 [9100 萬歐元]，但由於我們今天承擔的一些重組費用，實際金額為 [1000 萬歐元]。

Okay, so one more follow-up. You had a pretty big jump in terms of bookings on the IDM and memory and foundries flattish in terms of absolute dollar. How do you see that trending in the second half? Is it IDM maybe go down a little bit, memory come up a little bit, and a big jump in foundry in the second half? Is that how we should be looking at?

好的，再跟進一下。就 IDM 和記憶體的預訂量而言，有相當大的成長，而就絕對美元而言，代工廠則持平。您如何看待下半年的趨勢？是IDM可能會下降一點，記憶體會上升一點，而下半年代工會大幅成長？我們應該這樣看待嗎？

Well, if you listen carefully to the call, I think memory has just started. If you -- I don't think we're at the end of that yet. So I think memory for the next few quarters will probably stay at a good momentum. IDM is pretty predictable, but that basically is a result of the shipment plan and our adherence, and their adherence to a six-month order leadtime. So that is just going according to plan.

好吧，如果你仔細聽這通電話，我想記憶才剛開始。如果你——我認為我們還沒走到最後。因此我認為未來幾季的記憶體可能會保持良好的勢頭。IDM 相當可預測，但這基本上是出貨計劃和我們的遵守以及他們遵守六個月訂單交付週期的結果。一切都按照計劃進行。

And logic, logic will stay strong because we are ramping the 20 nanometer node. There is only one major logic player, logic foundry, that is currently ramping the 20 nanometer node and the rest has to follow. So I think it is going to be a mix whereby logic will stay strong, but also we will see the return of our memory customers.

邏輯將保持強勁，因為我們正在推進 20 奈米節點。目前只有一家主要的邏輯廠商，即邏輯代工廠，正在推進 20 奈米節點，其餘廠商必須跟進。因此，我認為這將是一種混合趨勢，邏輯將保持強勁，但我們也將看到記憶體客戶的回歸。

Okay, thank you very much. That's very helpful.

好的，非常感謝。這非常有幫助。

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we've run out of time. There was a lot of good questions. Hopefully, they represented the questions that others that weren't able to get on had in mind. If not, I know your history shows you know where to find us. IR is available after this call to manage as many questions and callers as we can.

女士們、先生們，我想我們的時間已經不夠了。有很多好問題。希望它們能夠代表那些無法上場的其他人心中的問題。如果沒有，我知道你的歷史顯示你知道在哪裡可以找到我們。本次通話結束後，IR 可以處理盡可能多的問題和來電者。

So, again, I, on behalf of the Board of management, I would like to thank you for joining the call today. And if, Kirsten, we could have you close the call out formally, we would appreciate it. Thanks.

因此，我再次代表管理委員會感謝您今天的參加電話會議。克爾斯滕，如果您能正式結束通話，我們將非常感激。謝謝。

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the ASML 2013 second-quarter results conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

謝謝您，先生。女士們、先生們，ASML 2013 年第二季業績電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。