艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2012 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the ASML 2012 third-quarter results conference call on October 17, 2012. Throughout today's introduction, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After ASML's introduction, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加2012年10月17日ASML 2012年第三季業績電話會議。在今天的介紹過程中，所有參與者將處於只聽模式。ASML介紹完後，會有提問的機會。（操作員指示）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Craig DeYoung. Go ahead please, sir.

現在我想將會議交給 Craig DeYoung 先生。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, Operator, and good afternoon and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Craig DeYoung, Vice President of Investor Relations here at ASML, and I'd like to welcome you to our investor call and webcast.

謝謝接線員，女士們、先生們，下午好，早安。我是 ASML 投資者關係副總裁 Craig DeYoung，歡迎您參加我們的投資者電話會議和網路廣播。

Joining me today from our headquarters here in Veldhoven, The Netherlands, is Eric Meurice, ASML's CEO; and Peter Wennink, ASML's CFO. As the Operator mentioned, today's call subject is ASML's third-quarter 2012 results. However, as you now know, we've also announced our intent to acquire Cymer today, and therefore, we'd be happy to answer any questions you might have on either subject, as we proceed with the call.

今天，與我一起從荷蘭費爾德霍芬總部前來的還有 ASML 執行長 Eric Meurice；和 ASML 財務長 Peter Wennink。正如接線員所提到的，今天的通話主題是 ASML 2012 年第三季的業績。但是，正如您現在所知，我們今天也宣布了收購 Cymer 的意圖，因此，在通話過程中，我們很樂意回答您對這兩個主題可能提出的任何問題。

At this time, I'd like to draw your attention to the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release and in our third-quarter results presentation, both of which you can find on our website at ASML.com. This Safe Harbor statement will apply to this call and all associated presentation materials. Let me remind you that the length of today's call is 60 minutes.

此時，我想提請您注意今天的新聞稿和我們的第三季業績報告中的安全港聲明，您可以在我們的網站 ASML.com 上找到這兩項聲明。本安全港聲明將適用於本次電話會議及所有相關演示資料。讓我提醒您，今天的通話時間為 60 分鐘。

And now I'd like to turn the call over to Eric Meurice for a brief introduction.

現在我想將電話轉給 Eric Meurice 進行簡短的介紹。

Thank you, Craig. Good afternoon, good morning. Thank you for attending our third-quarter results conference call.

謝謝你，克雷格。下午好，早安。感謝您參加我們的第三季業績電話會議。

Before we begin, as usual, in this session, Peter and I would like to provide an overview and some commentary on our third-quarter results, and our view going forward, as well as providing some commentary on the Cymer acquisition proposal. As usual, Peter will start with the review of Q3, adding comments on the short-term outlook, brief outlook on overview of the Cymer deal. I will complete the introduction, with some further comments and update on the EUV program, and more details on the intent of the Cymer deal.

在本次會議開始之前，像往常一樣，彼得和我想對我們的第三季業績和未來的看法進行概述和評論，並對 Cymer 收購提案進行一些評論。與往常一樣，Peter 將從第三季的回顧開始，並對短期前景發表評論，並對 Cymer 交易的概況進行簡要展望。我將完成介紹，並對 EUV 計劃進行一些進一步的評論和更新，以及有關 Cymer 交易意圖的更多細節。

So, Peter, please.

那麼，彼得，有請。

Thank you, Eric, and welcome to everyone. As mentioned by Eric, I will focus on a review of our third-quarter results, which are very much in line with expectations. And I will close off with a brief overview of the other announcements we made jointly today with Cymer.

謝謝你，艾瑞克，歡迎大家。正如 Eric 所提到的，我將重點回顧我們第三季的業績，該業績非常符合預期。最後，我將簡要概述我們今天與 Cymer 共同發布的其他公告。

A quick look at our third-quarter sales results show us coming in at about EUR1.23 billion, just above our guided level. This is very much in line with the previous quarter. This quarter sales remained largely skewed towards the foundry IDM sectors, which accounted for about 70%, including non-critical KrF systems, which afforded the capacity additions.

快速瀏覽我們第三季的銷售業績，我們發現銷售額約為 12.3 億歐元，略高於我們的預期水準。這與上一季的情況非常一致。本季的銷售額仍主要偏向代工 IDM 領域，約佔 70%，其中包括非關鍵的 KrF 系統，這些系統提供了產能增加。

Memory combined represented a balance of 30%. This percentage seems high when looking at the state of the memory market, but we recognized a few leading-edge evaluation systems as sales in the third quarter that were shipped in prior quarters. This issue also affected the memory bookings in the quarter, as these are recognized as turns business.

記憶體合計佔餘額的 30%。從記憶體市場的狀況來看，這個百分比似乎很高，但我們發現前幾季出貨的一些尖端評估系統在第三季也實現了銷售。該問題也影響了本季的記憶體預訂，因為這些被視為週轉業務。

In addition, there is increasing uncertainty in the last few quarters as to the application for which these systems are used, which lead us to combine memory sales and bookings data [bigger than that] in our presentation materials this quarter. The ASP of all systems recognized in Q3 was EUR25 million, which is an increase of about 10% from the previous quarter.

此外，最近幾個季度，這些系統的應用越來越不確定，這導致我們在本季度的演示材料中合併了記憶體銷售和預訂資料（比這更大）。第三季確認的所有系統的平均銷售價格為 2,500 萬歐元，比上一季成長約 10%。

Service and fuel option sales remained at a healthy level of around EUR230 million. Q3 net bookings came in at EUR830 million for 33 systems excluding EUV, with booked average selling prices at around EUR25 million versus EUR22 million in the second quarter. The quarter's bookings profile was skewed by the turns business of the evaluation systems, as mentioned previously. Our order backlog at the end of Q3 was EUR1.34 billion, excluding EUV, totaling 48 systems. The backlog profile at quarter's end remained very similar to that at the end of the prior quarter.

服務和燃料選項銷售額維持在約 2.3 億歐元的健康水準。第三季度，33 個系統（不包括 EUV）的淨預訂額為 8.3 億歐元，預訂平均售價約為 2,500 萬歐元，而第二季度為 2,200 萬歐元。如前所述，本季的預訂情況因評估系統的周轉業務而出現偏差。截至第三季末，我們的訂單積壓金額為 13.4 億歐元（不含 EUV），總計 48 個系統。本季末的積壓訂單情況與上一季末的情況非常相似。

Regarding our share buyback program, as of July 9, ASML had to suspend the current program for regulatory reasons in connection with the customer co-investment program. And in Q4, we plan to reinitiate and complete the previously announced buyback program of EUR1.13 billion. As to the outlook, we anticipate fourth-quarter sales coming in at about EUR1 billion, putting 2012 annual revenues at about EUR4.7 billion. A gross margin of about 41% is expected from Q4 sales.

關於我們的股票回購計劃，截至 7 月 9 日，ASML 因與客戶共同投資計劃相關的監管原因不得不暫停當前計劃。第四季度，我們計劃重新啟動並完成先前宣布的11.3億歐元的回購計畫。就前景而言，我們預計第四季銷售額約為 10 億歐元，2012 年全年營收約為 47 億歐元。預計第四季銷售毛利率約為41%。

R&D and SG&A expenses will be about EUR155 million for R&D and EUR64 million for SG&A. The increase in R&D as a result of the initial ramp of the 450 millimeter program for which the co-investment program has been initiated. Customer funding of this program will start, by the way, in 2013. The increase in SG&A is due to a one-time Dutch austerity taxation for the year 2012 on high income individuals, which taxation is fully payable by the Company. This charge will be booked fully in the fourth quarter.

研發銷售、一般及行政費用約 1.55 億歐元（研發）及 6,400 萬歐元（銷售、一般及行政費用）。由於已啟動共同投資計劃，450 毫米計劃的初始​​量產將增加研發投入。順便說一下，該計劃的客戶資助將於 2013 年開始。銷售、一般及行政費用的增加是由於荷蘭對高收入個人徵收了 2012 年一次性緊縮稅，該稅款由公司全額支付。該費用將在第四季全部計入。

We currently recognize our customers' uncertainty regarding underlying semiconductor demand in the tablet and smartphone segments as well, as the fact that the PC sector is not yet accelerated by Windows 8 and the ultrabook form factor. The uncertainty around broad-based semiconductor demand, which is especially relevant in the memory sector where spending is expected to remain subdued for the next two quarters, is currently limiting our view of 2013, rendering us unable to be specific with a reasonable level of certainty about the coming quarters at this time.

我們目前認識到客戶對平板電腦和智慧型手機領域的潛在半導體需求也存在不確定性，因為 PC 產業尚未受到 Windows 8 和超極本外形的推動。圍繞廣泛半導體需求的不確定性（尤其在記憶體領域，預計未來兩個季度的支出仍將保持低迷）目前限制了我們對 2013 年的展望，導致我們目前無法對未來幾季做出合理的確定性預測。

We do see, however, sustained demand for the logic sector, as the planned 28 nanometer node strategic buildup to a worldwide capacity of about 300,000 wafer starts per month is expected by the middle of next year, mid-2013. And as the 22 nanometer logic ramp will start in the second half of next year.

然而，我們確實看到邏輯領域持續的需求，因為計畫中的 28 奈米節點策略建設預計在明年年中（2013 年中期）達到每月約 30 萬片晶圓的全球產能。22 奈米邏輯技術將於明年下半年開始發展。

The reason for the strength of the logic business is due to the accelerated ramp times of the current advanced technologies, and to a reduced time period between the transition from 28 nanometers to 22 nanometer nodes. As previously mentioned, this transition is very lithography-intensive, with a significant increase in immersion tool usage versus the 28 nanometer node.

邏輯業務強勁的原因是目前先進技術的加速發展時間，以及從 28 奈米到 22 奈米節點的過渡時間的縮短。如前所述，這種轉變對微影技術的要求非常高，與 28 奈米節點相比，浸沒式工具的使用量顯著增加。

In addition, we'll have the impact of market uncertainties. We anticipate the shipments of our first 11 NXE 3300B EUV systems that will help prepare our customers for the insertion of EUV in volume production lines by 2014. This will contribute approximately EUR700 million in revenues for next year.

此外，我們也會受到市場不確定性的影響。我們預計將於 2014 年出貨首批 11 台 NXE 3300B EUV 系統，以協助我們的客戶為在大量生產線中引進 EUV 做好準備。這將為明年貢獻約7億歐元的收入。

Turning to the subject of our offer to acquire Cymer. As per this morning's press release, we have entered into a definitive agreement to acquire all outstanding shares of San Diego by Cymer Incorporated. The transaction, which was unanimously approved by the Board of Directors of ASML and Cymer, would entitle each Cymer shareholder to receive $20 in cash and a fixed ratio of 1.1502 ASML ordinary shares per Cymer shares. The issued ASML shares will be New York shares and will be listed on NASDAQ.

說到我們收購 Cymer 的提議。根據今天早上的新聞稿，我們已達成最終協議，將由 Cymer Incorporated 收購聖地牙哥的所有流通股。該交易已獲得 ASML 和 Cymer 董事會的一致批准，根據交易協議，每位 Cymer 股東將有權獲得 20 美元現金以及按每股 Cymer 股票固定兌換 1.1502 股 ASML 普通股的比例獲得現金。此次發行的ASML股票將為紐約股票，並在納斯達克上市。

As it will take some time to harvest most of the obvious synergies resulting from this merger, we believe that the first 12 months after the closing of the transaction will be somewhat dilutive to a maximum level of 5% of the earnings per share. But 24 months after the closing, we should see the full benefits of the synergies, and that should account for up to 5% accretion of the earnings per share.

由於需要一段時間才能獲得此次合併產生的大多數明顯的協同效應，我們認為交易結束後的前 12 個月將在一定程度上攤薄每股收益，最高不超過 5%。但在交易結束後的 24 個月，我們應該會看到協同效應的全部好處，這將使每股盈餘增加 5%。

These assumptions, by the way, do not yet include the impact of the accounting of the purchase price allocations, of which the impact needs to be determined after closing. And we expect the transaction to close in the course of 2013.

順便說一句，這些假設尚未包括購買價格分配會計的影響，其影響需要在交易結束後確定。我們預計交易將於 2013 年完成。

And with that, I would like to turn it back to -- over to you, Eric.

說完這些，我想把話題轉回給你，艾瑞克。

Thank you, Peter. Let me, in fact, focus my comments on the planned acquisition of Cymer. This move is designed to achieve, in fact, three things.

謝謝你，彼得。事實上，我想把我的評論重點放在 Cymer 的收購計劃上。此舉其實是為了實現三個目標。

First thing is to derisk and accelerate the extreme ultraviolet, the UV technology roadmap. Second thing is to give ASML the positive impact of a steady and growing service business. And the third facet is to improve our financials through the benefit of vertical integration and of synergies.

首先是降低風險並加速極紫外線、紫外線技術路線圖。第二件事是為 ASML 帶來穩定且不斷成長的服務業務的正面影響。第三個面向是透過垂直整合和協同效應來改善我們的財務狀況。

So, let's go back and discuss these three points. Regarding the objective of overall derisking and accelerating UV development, as well as creating energy synergies, we believe that this merger will enable significant execution performance improvement.

那麼，我們回過頭來討論這三點。就整體降低風險、加速UV開發以及創造能源綜效的目標而言，我們相信此次合併將顯著提高執行績效。

First, it will help taking duplication out of development. Responsibility for each key module like the vessel, the CO2 laser, the seed laser, control software, algorithm, et cetera, et cetera, will be assigned to only one site without fear of IP know-how transfer control, with no need to duplicate or to distribute development ownership in a non-optimized fashion. The development will also benefit from the flexibility of a larger pool of dedicated talents, dedicated experts.

首先，它將有助於消除開發中的重複。容器、二氧化碳雷射、種子雷射、控制軟體、演算法等每個關鍵模組的責任將僅分配給一個站點，而不必擔心智慧財產權技術轉移控制，也不需要以非最佳化的方式重複或分配開發所有權。這項發展也將受益於更大範圍的專業人才和專家團隊的靈活性。

Secondly, reducing the complexity of manufacturing and test flows, module will be manufactured in numbers of centers of excellence -- of course, in San Diego, Veldhoven, and at our key suppliers. They will then be integrated and qualify as a system near the scanner or at the customer site. This will save the cost and time of assembly and testing at the different locations.

其次，為了降低製造和測試流程的複雜性，模組將在多個卓越中心製造——當然，是在聖地亞哥、費爾德霍芬和我們的主要供應商處。然後，它們將被整合並成為掃描器附近或客戶現場的系統。這將節省在不同地點組裝和測試的成本和時間。

Regarding the objective of improving our financial prospects, of course, part of it comes with the synergies and efficiencies I just talked about. But also, by integrating such a high value component of the total machine, we will certainly increase our gross margin mathematically, while we will scale R&D and SG&A structure through the synergies, thus creating an EPS improvement opportunity.

至於改善財務前景的目標，當然，其中一部分來自於我剛才談到的綜效和效率。而且，透過整合整個機器中如此高價值的組件，我們肯定會在數學上提高我們的毛利率，同時我們將透過協同效應擴大研發和銷售、一般及行政費用結構，從而創造每股收益改善的機會。

Regarding the objective of getting access to a growing service business, we are very much encouraged that the source business, as per nature, includes a significant consumerable content like the other oil for printers, which is even more significant for the UV technology. And this will ensure growing profit opportunity on a somewhat less cycle-dependent business.

關於進入不斷成長的服務業務的目標，我們非常高興地看到，來源業務本質上包括大量可消費內容，例如印表機的其他油，這對於 UV 技術來說更為重要。這將確保在不太依賴週期的業務中實現獲利機會的成長。

This merger is also well-timed. We now expect steady progress towards 2014 production goal of achieving 69 wafers per hour, a goal which we disclosed, I remember, about a year ago. On the overall scanner system from the scanner system not the source, the progress has been excellent. Customers have now exposed more than 23,000 wafers on the six NXE 3100 machines, which are currently installed.

這次合併也是恰逢其時。我們現在預計，2014 年的生產目標將穩步實現，即每小時生產 69 片晶圓，我記得我們大約在一年前就披露過這個目標。從掃描器系統（而不是源頭）的整體掃描器系統來看，進展非常順利。目前，客戶已在六台已安裝的 NXE 3100 機器上曝光了超過 23,000 片晶圓。

Regarding the 11 NXE 3300 system, which is a new generation, being prepared for shipment for 2013, the platform has already shown exceptional performance, demonstrating imaging level of 16 nanometers, direct imaging of 16 nanometer, and overlay of significantly less than 2 nanometers or extremely good performance, confirming that the system itself is ready for high time. On the source front, the progress has been made first in stabilizing the source utilization rate in the field and the sources themselves can now reliably expose.

至於新一代的11 NXE 3300系統，準備在2013年出貨，該平台已經展現出卓越的性能，實現了16奈米的成像水平、16奈米的直接成像以及遠小於2奈米的疊加或極好的性能，證明系統本身已經準備就緒。在源方面，首先在穩定現場源利用率方面取得了進展，並且源本身現在可以可靠地曝光。

Second, we have now been able to prove 30 watt exposure power, equivalent to about 18 or 20 wafers per hour on an NXE C3300 on a sustainable basis in different lab experiments at Cymer and ASML. We have -- we would have hoped to have shown about 40 wafers per hour, not 18 -- 20 equivalent by now, but it was more difficult than expected to obtain beam control stability during the summer as we worked on.

其次，我們現在已經能夠在 Cymer 和 ASML 的不同實驗室實驗中持續證明 30 瓦的曝光功率，相當於 NXE C3300 上每小時約 18 或 20 個晶圓。我們本來希望每小時能生產大約 40 片晶圓，而不是現在的 18 到 20 片，但在我們工作的夏季，獲得光束控制穩定性比預期的要困難得多。

The achieved 30 watt plateau, however, is a very good basis from which to move up. Hopefully, stably towards our 2014 goal of 105 watts or 69 wafers per hour equivalent, as I mentioned at the beginning.

然而，已實現的 30 瓦平台為進一步提升奠定了良好的基礎。希望能夠穩定地實現我們在 2014 年的目標，即每小時 105 瓦或 69 片晶圓，正如我在開始時提到的那樣。

Last quarter, I also mentioned that we had received customer commitments to purchase four additional NXE 3300 for delivery in 2014, and we're now expecting another 4 to 8 commitments to be received in the next six months from multiple customers. And as the industry prepares for first semiconductor device production on these UV systems by 2014, as again, we planned since about a year.

上個季度，我還提到，我們已收到客戶承諾購買另外四台 NXE 3300，並於 2014 年交付，現在我們預計在未來六個月內將從多個客戶那裡收到另外 4 到 8 台 NXE 3300 的承諾。正如我們大約一年前計劃的一樣，業界準備在 2014 年之前利用這些紫外線系統生產第一批半導體裝置。

One last word regarding the status of our customer co--investment program. As you know, we received shareholders approval for execution of this program in September. This program allows investment by Intel, TSMC, and Samsung, in 23% of our equity, and provides also for the commitment of these three customers of EUR1.4 billion -- nearly EUR1.4 billion of R&D funding over the next five years.

最後再說一下我們的客戶共同投資計畫的現況。如您所知，我們已於 9 月獲得股東批准執行該計劃。該計畫允許英特爾、台積電和三星投資我們 23% 的股權，並為這三家客戶承諾 14 億歐元——未來五年將有近 14 億歐元的研發資金。

The share issuance to those customers and the related synthetic share buyback, which avoids any dilution, will be completed in Q4 as planned. The proposed merger with Cymer is very, very much in keeping with the objective of this customer co-investment program, as it enables the next step in technology, which was an objective of the co-investment program. The merger itself will also be significantly facilitated by the customer R&D financing pledge, the EUR1.38 billion I talked about, and by the customer backing of our equity through the fact that they will own soon 23% of our shares.

向這些客戶發行股票以及相關的合成股票回購（可避免任何稀釋）將按計劃於第四季度完成。與 Cymer 的提案合併非常符合該客戶共同投資計畫的目標，因為它推動了科技的下一步發展，而這正是共同投資計畫的目標之一。此次合併本身也將極大地促進客戶研發融資承諾（我之前提到的 13.8 億歐元），以及客戶對我們股權的支持（他們很快就會擁有我們 23% 的股份）。

So, with that, Peter and I are pleased to take your questions.

因此，彼得和我很高興回答您的問題。

Thank you, Eric. Ladies and gentlemen, the Operator will instruct you momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session; but as always -- and I know there's a lot of questions about both the results and the Cymer acquisition details, but I would like to ask you, beg you, to kindly limit yourself to one question with one short follow-up, so we can get as many in. And I'm sure we'll have the opportunity to answer a vast majority of your questions.

謝謝你，埃里克。女士們，先生們，操作員將立即向您介紹問答環節的規程；但一如既往——我知道有很多關於結果和 Cymer 收購細節的問題，但我想請您，懇求您，請將問題限制在一個簡短的後續問題上，以便我們能夠盡可能多地了解情況。我相信我們有機會回答你們的絕大多數問題。

So, now, Operator, if we could have your instructions and then the first question, please.

那麼，接線員，現在請聽取您的指示，然後問第一個問題。

(Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Mr. Didier Scemama. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

（操作員指示）第一個問題來自 Didier Scemama 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Yes, it's Merrill Lynch. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my question. What I would like to understand, and I think you've sort of alluded to it earlier on, Eric, is -- you've been working with Cymer for some time on solving those light source issues. So can you just try to be a bit more explicit as to why you think that bringing Cymer in-house is going to help you reach the 60 or 70 wafer per hour throughput you've got as a target? Thanks.

是的，是美林證券。先生們，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我想了解的是，艾瑞克，我想你之前也提到過這一點——你已經與 Cymer 合作了一段時間來解決這些光源問題。那麼，您能否更明確地解釋一下，為什麼您認為將 Cymer 納入公司內部將幫助您達到每小時 60 或 70 片晶圓的產量目標？謝謝。

We think that we would have progressed to a result anyway with the current system of very deep cooperation. But we also think that being merged will allow it to do this faster and with less risk, and with less potential conflict.

我們認為，無論如何，在目前深度合作的體系下，我們都會取得進展。但我們也認為，合併將使其能夠更快地完成這項任務，風險更小，潛在衝突也更少。

It is clear that this is a very difficult project. If one of us would -- one of the two partners would see things differently, like one of us would protect IP, one of us would try to do something in parallel, et cetera, you can create a risk of a fight, a risk of economic negotiation, which would be of no value for both.

顯然，這是一個非常艱鉅的項目。如果我們中的一個人——兩個合作夥伴中的一個人對事情有不同的看法，比如我們其中一個人會保護知識產權，我們其中一個人會嘗試同時做一些事情等等，那麼就會產生爭鬥的風險，經濟談判的風險，這對雙方來說都沒有任何價值。

And also the human factor, to get engineers to work together, it's always better to put them into the same aquarium as opposed to different aquariums. So it's an efficiency question. It's also a business question. We are reaching the point where being together will reduce the risk of not achieving. And we felt, on both sides of the companies, that this was the right time to do so.

還有人為因素，為了讓工程師們一起工作，最好把他們放在同一個水族館裡，而不是不同的水族館裡。所以這是一個效率問題。這也是一個商業問題。我們正達到這樣的程度：只要齊心協力，就能降低無法達成目標的風險。我們雙方公司都認為現在正是採取這項行動的最佳時機。

Great. And then, Peter, just quickly did you say that the maximum dilution is going to be 5% in year one?

偉大的。然後，彼得，你剛才不是說了第一年的最大稀釋度將達到 5%？

Yes. That's what we currently expect. That is to be year one after the closing. And so after the closing, the next 12 months after the closing. Because it will take some time to harvest the benefits, as Eric alluded to in his opening speech. It will take some time to fully get those benefits onboard. So we believe that after 24 months after the closing, that will be the case. So, then you will see a 5% accretion.

是的。這正是我們目前的期望。那是交易結束後的第一年。因此，在交易結束後，接下來的 12 個月也是如此。因為正如艾瑞克在開幕致詞中提到的那樣，收穫效益需要一些時間。要完全享受這些好處還需要一些時間。因此我們相信，交易結束後 24 個月內情況就會如此。因此，您將看到 5% 的增幅。

Thank you.

謝謝。

[Amit Ahamdani].

[阿米特·阿哈姆達尼]。

I'm [Huduj Anani] from Citigroup. Thanks for taking my questions. A main one and a follow-up, if I may. My first main question is, could you please talk about CapEx trends in each of your end markets? And particularly if you're seeing any early signs of CapEx lines at your customers being impacted by potential changes in manufacturing strategy by one of their customers?

我是花旗集團的 [Huduj Anani]。感謝您回答我的問題。如果可以的話，我會先講一個主要內容，然後再講一個後續內容。我的第一個主要問題是，您能談談每個終端市場的資本支出趨勢嗎？特別是如果您發現客戶的資本支出線有任何早期跡象，受到其某個客戶的製造策略潛在變化的影響？

And as a follow-up, we have heard this talk about some of these technological factors such as DLC and 3D stacking, impacting on NAND demands. Could you maybe share your thoughts on that? Thank you.

作為後續，我們聽到了一些技術因素（例如 DLC 和 3D 堆疊）對 NAND 需求的影響的討論。能分享一下您對此的想法嗎？謝謝。

Well, the CapEx trend, I think Peter was clear in mentioning that, at this moment, the logic business is clearly on a roll. There is indeed discussion within the market about where the different players are manufacturing the project. And nobody knows that is a discussion where Apple would have their different logic chip manufacturers, et cetera, et cetera. All this is happening, however.

嗯，關於資本支出趨勢，我認為 Peter 明確提到，目前，邏輯業務顯然正在蓬勃發展。市場內部確實存在著關於不同參與者在哪裡生產該項目的討論。沒有人知道這是一場蘋果與不同的邏輯晶片製造商等等進行的討論。然而，這一切都正在發生。

We see a steady request for our machine for capacity, because 28 nanometer has not yet reached the level of capacity required necessary for just basic demand of these products. That will go up to June and we think these are strategic buys. They won't move with markets short-term fluctuations.

我們看到對我們的機器的產能需求穩定，因為 28 奈米尚未達到滿足這些產品基本需求所需的產能水準。這將持續到六月，我們認為這些都是策略性收購。它們不會隨著市場的短期波動而移動。

And we have seen that 22 nanometer, which goes immediately after 28 nanometer, is in fact accelerated because you -- there is a war out there between the different architectures, arm versus microprocessor architectures, which pushes everybody to be even more aggressive in the logic arena in their shrink strategy. So we're going to have a significant demand on 22 nanometer second half of the year.

我們已經看到，緊接在 28 奈米之後的 22 奈米實際上正在加速發展，因為不同架構之間存在著競爭，ARM 與微處理器架構之間存在競爭，這促使每個人在邏輯領域採取更積極的縮小策略。因此，今年下半年我們對 22 奈米的需求將會很大。

And as I think we mentioned now for two or three sessions in a row, 22 nanometers is a huge load in terms of numbers of lithography layers. In fact, I mentioned last quarter that we think the multiplier is 1.7 -- 1.7 times more machines in 22 nanometer than 28 nanometer would require for the same amount of wafers. We think now is going towards [2] -- 1.722.

我想我們已經連續兩三次提到過，就光刻層數而言，22 奈米是一個巨大的負荷。事實上，我在上個季度提到過，我們認為乘數是 1.7——22 奈米所需的機器數量是 28 奈米所需機器數量的 1.7 倍，而生產相同數量的晶圓則需要更多機器。我們認為現在的價格將會是[2]——1.722。

So there is good inflation here for lithography. The trend, however, in memories is clearly -- in fact, there is no trend at this moment; it's a dead duck business. There is no trend. But that doesn't mean it won't come back and this is a key message we have to give.

因此，這裡的通貨膨脹對光刻技術有利。但記憶中的趨勢很明顯——事實上，此刻沒有趨勢；這是一件毫無意義的事。沒有趨勢。但這並不意味著它不會回來，這是我們必須傳達的關鍵訊息。

We don't want to say that we know something that the business in 2013 will not be sustained in the memory business. No, I think we are saying that there is absolutely no statistics as to where the PC business will be. And without any clarity on that number, I could understand our customers waiting to see how much DRAM capacity needs to be built, and how much NAND capacity needs to be built.

我們不想說我們知道一些事情，即 2013 年的記憶體業務將無法持續。不，我認為我們要說的是，完全沒有統計數據可以表明 PC 業務將會走向何方。由於這個數字還不明確，我可以理解我們的客戶在等著看需要建造多少 DRAM 容量，以及需要建造多少 NAND 容量。

Because, as you know, the new PC form factor, which is basically a tablet with a keyboard and, in fact, more NAND and more DRAM than the tablet -- that thing is going to be a huge factor to the capacity requirements. So there's a key question mark as to exactly what the number is and when is it going to start?

因為，如你所知，新的 PC 外形基本上就是一個帶有鍵盤的平板電腦，事實上，它比平板電腦擁有更多的 NAND 和 DRAM——這將成為容量需求的一個重要因素。因此，有一個關鍵的問號：這個數字到底是多少，什麼時候開始？

We will all feel probably the data when Windows 8 starts. And Windows 8, as we know, is a enabler to these new form factors, and it will have this time a significant impact on PC trends.

Windows 8啟動的時候大家大概都會感受到這些數據。眾所周知，Windows 8 是這些新外形的推動者，它將對 PC 趨勢產生重大影響。

So we have to wait, and I don't think at this moment any one of us would be able to say there is a negative trend. There's just no trend, no position at this moment.

所以我們必須等待，我認為目前我們任何人都不能說有負面趨勢。目前還沒有趨勢，也沒有立場。

If you talk about the 3D structures and things, yes, that has always been the case. You have numbers of opportunity for 3D structures, which means more traditional lithography and less state-of-the-art lithography. But as we often say, where we simulate this impact on lithography is plus or minus 10% of the NAND business, so it's not something that you could see easily compared to other parameters.

如果你談論 3D 結構和事物，是的，情況一直如此。您有大量機會實現 3D 結構，這意味著更多傳統的光刻技術，而更少的先進的光刻技術。但正如我們常說的那樣，我們模擬的這種對光刻的影響是 NAND 業務的正負 10%，因此與其他參數相比，這不是你能輕易看到的東西。

That's very helpful, thank you.

這非常有幫助，謝謝。

Gareth Jenkins.

加雷斯·詹金斯。

Yes, it's UBS. I have two very quick ones, if I could. I just wanted on the fourth weight new EUV tool orders, could you just confirm that that's coming from the same end market as your prior one or the same customer, I should say? Or is it completely new ones?

是的，是瑞銀。如果可以的話，我有兩個非常快速的答案。我只是想知道第四個重量級的新 EUV 工具訂單，您能否確認它來自與您之前的相同的終端市場或相同的客戶？還是全新的？

And secondly, I just wondered whether you could talk through how the valuation of your bid for Cymer was constructed. Did you look at [invested] capital? Or did you just look at the strategic value? Did you look at accretion? What were the sort of metrics behind the valuation? Thank you.

其次，我只是想知道您是否可以談談您對 Cymer 的出價是如何得出的。你看過[投資]資本嗎？還是你只是看戰略價值？你觀察過吸積現象嗎？估值背後的指標是什麼？謝謝。

So, Peter is going to handle the valuation question regarding the EUV orders; DRAM is taking the first X units but logic is getting heated. Logic UV 2014 is going to be a fairly huge R&D content and then 2015 will be the ramp. So now in terms of the first, say, four units or so will be DRAM, and after that, we go full-blown into logic.

因此，Peter 將處理有關 EUV 訂單的估值問題； DRAM 正在佔據首批 X 個單元，但邏輯正在升溫。Logic UV 2014 將會是個相當大的研發內容，而 2015 年將會是發展高峰。因此，現在就第一個單元而言，大約四個單元將是 DRAM，之後，我們將全面進入邏輯領域。

Peter, for the valuation of --?

彼得，對於－－的估價如何？

Yes. For the valuation, this was pretty much based on the fundamental analysis of the business. We, of course, work in the same business so we understand the business of Cymer quite well. They understand our business also very well.

是的。對於估值，這基本上是基於業務的基本面分析。當然，我們從事的是同一行業，所以我們非常了解 Cymer 的業務。他們也非常了解我們的業務。

As you know, with every scanner, there's one DPV light source sold and with one EUV scanner, it will be one EUV source. So there was a lot of insight on both sides on, let's say, the fundamentals of the market that we are currently operating in.

如您所知，每台掃描器都會售出一個 DPV 光源，而一台 EUV 掃描器則會售出一個 EUV 光源。因此，雙方對我們目前所處市場的基本面都有了許多見解。

We basically looked at it from two sides. You have the EUV business, which is a business that is surrounded with, like Eric said, still there's a lot of execution issues. You could call it execution risks, but there are also executional opportunities. But that is less straightforward than the deep UV light source business with a very large surface component.

我們基本上從兩個方面來看這個問題。你有 EUV 業務，就像 Eric 所說的那樣，這個業務仍然存在許多執行問題。你可以稱之為執行風險，但也有執行機會。但這並不像表面成分很大的深紫外光源業務那麼簡單。

So, a significant part of the fundamental valuation can be attributed to the deep UV, where, of course, there's also a potential to see a significant part of that valuation for the EUV business. But there are still a lot of things need to happen. And that, of course, could be realized when we put the two companies together for the reasons that Eric just talked about.

因此，基本估值的很大一部分可以歸因於深紫外光，當然，EUV 業務也有可能成為基本估值的很大一部分。但仍有許多事情需要發生。當然，當我們出於 Eric 剛才談到的原因將兩家公司合併時，這一點就可以實現。

Now and after having done that fundamental analysis, we, of course, also look at where the share prices of the two companies were over the last three to six months. This is not a cash deal. We believe that it's largely a deal that will be paid in shares of ASML, which makes it clear this is, from our point of view, very much a strategic deal.

現在，在完成基本面分析之後，我們當然也會查看過去三到六個月這兩家公司的股價走勢。這不是一筆現金交易。我們認為，這筆交易主要以 ASML 股份支付，從我們的角度來看，這顯然是一筆具有戰略意義的交易。

So we also looked at the, let's say, three and six months premium-based. So it would take the fundamental analysis and the valuation, what kind of premium would that in the end represent? We came between 50% to 60%. If you take 50% on the six months on a three-month basis, and looking at precedent transactions for strategic acquisitions, that falls right in the middle of those precedent transactions. So from both sides, I think from a premium analysis point of view, but very much from a fundamental evaluation point of view, that's how we came to where we are today.

因此，我們也研究了三個月和六個月的保費。因此，這需要進行基本面分析和估值，最終會代表什麼樣的溢價？我們的佔比在 50% 到 60% 之間。如果您以三個月為基礎計算六個月的 50%，並查看策略性收購的先例交易，那麼這正好處於這些先例交易的中間。因此，從雙方來看，我認為從溢價分析的角度來看，但從基本面評估的角度來看，這就是我們今天所處位置的原因。

And I think as I mentioned briefly, to add to Peter, is we also realized on both sides, I guess that there was negative value if we didn't do it.

我想，正如我簡要提​​到的，向彼得補充一點，我們雙方也意識到，如果我們不這樣做，我想就會產生負面影響。

Yes. That's correct.

是的。沒錯。

So at the end of the day, we needed to resolve the negative value.

所以最終我們需要解決負值問題。

Just as a follow-up, I mean, you're -- when do you best guess do you think the deal closes? And I guess is that related to anti-trust procedures that I guess will occur?

作為後續問題，我的意思是，您——您認為交易什麼時候完成最好？我猜這是否與即將發生的反壟斷程序有關？

Yes, we have to go through a few closing conditions. One of them is, of course, the shareholder approval of the Cymer shareholders. And we have to go through the regular regulatory approvals to our significant one, will be on the anti-trust front. And the other will be a notification to the City's Committee in the United States.

是的，我們必須滿足一些成交條件。其中之一當然是 Cymer 股東的股東批准。我們必須通過常規監管部門的批准，這是我們最重要的一個方面，也是反壟斷的批准。另一份是向美國城市委員會發出通知。

Now, those have -- all you can say in every jurisdiction almost pre-described timetables, but we would think that under normal conditions, we could have obtained those regulatory approvals within six months, also taking into account the regulatory waiting and review periods. But to be on the safe side, you never know when these things -- we say at six to nine months, but of course, we would be focusing on six months. But as a nine months as a kind of worst case scenario.

現在，每個司法管轄區幾乎都有預先規定的時間表，但我們認為，在正常情況下，我們可以在六個月內獲得這些監管部門的批准，同時考慮到監管等待和審查期。但為了安全起見，你永遠不知道這些事情什麼時候會發生——我們說是六到九個月，但當然，我們會專注於六個月。但九個月可能只是最糟的情況。

Mahesh Sanganeria.

馬赫什·桑加內裡亞。

The company name is RBC Capital Markets. Just staying on the anti-trust topic, how does your relationship change with the other source supplier like Gigaphoton? Does that become part of a anti-trust issue?

該公司名稱為 RBC Capital Markets。繼續討論反壟斷話題，您與 Gigaphoton 等其他供應商的關係有何變化？這是否成為反壟斷問題的一部分？

No, in fact, I think this is the point that we are comfortable that there is no anti-trust issue at all. Two facets to your questions. One is, we do not choose who the source supplier is. Our customers do.

不，事實上我認為這是讓我們感到安心的一點，根本沒有反壟斷問題。您的問題有兩個面向。一是，我們不選擇源供應商是誰。我們的客戶確實如此。

So, for instance, Samsung or Intel or Toshiba or TSMC, would ask us which supplier they would want us to have, and then we qualify what they are requiring. So, the future market share of Gigaphoton and/or Cymer depends, in fact, on again, their choice, not ours. So we feel that this is a very important point to the authorities.

例如，三星、英特爾、東芝或台積電會詢問我們他們希望選擇哪家供應商，然後我們就會確定他們的要求。因此，Gigaphoton 和/或 Cymer 未來的市場份額實際上再次取決於他們的選擇，而不是我們的選擇。因此我們認為這對當局來說是一個非常重要的觀點。

And the second part is, indeed we want our division Cymer to be able to be independent in their approach to customers, which also includes our own competitors, and therefore, they will be managed fairly independently.

第二部分是，我們確實希望我們的部門 Cymer 能夠獨立地對待客戶，其中也包括我們自己的競爭對手，因此，他們將得到相當獨立的管理。

Okay. Then I have a follow-up on the power supply, the EUV power supply state status. You mentioned that you are very comfortable with the 30 watt operating as an independent, and you have not integrated. But what's -- how long can you -- how long in the terms of time can you operate that 30 watt? And how much is a downtime after you have the issue with the 30 watt? I'm just trying to get a sense of where are you in terms of the shipment of the 3300s with the respect to the EUV source.

好的。然後我跟進電源、EUV電源狀態。您提到，您對 30 瓦的獨立運行感到非常滿意，並且您還沒有整合。但是，你能使用 30 瓦的電源多久？30 瓦出現問題後，停機時間是多久？我只是想了解一下你們在 EUV 源方面 3300 的出貨情況。

Yes, this is a good question. The 30 watt position that I made was a laboratory experiment, which is good enough because we tried it for numbers of hours in different situations. So we're comfortable that it is replicable into the machine. However, we need to ship the machine with a new source to be qualifying the performance in the field in real situation. So that will happen sometime in the first or second quarter of 2013, but that issue is of much less importance.

是的，這是一個好問題。我做的 30 瓦位置是一個實驗室實驗，這已經足夠好了，因為我們在不同的情況下嘗試了數小時。因此，我們確信它可以複製到機器中。然而，我們需要將機器運送到新的貨源，以在實際情況下驗證其在現場的性能。因此這將在 2013 年第一季或第二季的某個時候發生，但這個問題並不那麼重要。

It has logistic problem, yes. Are we going to make it exactly on time, et cetera. But the fact that we have now proven that we can do it is just a question of execution; it's not a question of risk of not achieving. So we're not very worried about the issue of execution, potential execution, logistic delays. This is not as important as proving that we can do it.

是的，它有物流問題。我們是否能準時完成，等等。但事實證明我們能夠做到，這只是一個執行的問題；這並不是無法實現的風險問題。因此，我們並不太擔心執行問題、潛在執行問題和物流延遲問題。這不如證明我們能做到重要。

And then I'd like to add that throughput and let's say wafers per hour is not a delivery specification. There's many others but this is not one of them.

然後我想補充一點，吞吐量，比如說每小時晶圓的數量不是一個交付規範。還有很多其他的，但這不是其中之一。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Sandeep Deshpande.

桑迪普·德什潘德。

A couple of questions from me. Firstly, on the Cymer acquisition, Cymer has other businesses and services, I mean, unrelated to NCD, et cetera. I mean, does ASML intend to stay in these other businesses going forward? And how will they service the businesses which they don't have direct equipment exposure to?

我有幾個問題。首先，關於 Cymer 收購，Cymer 還有其他業務和服務，我的意思是，與 NCD 等無關。我的意思是，ASML 未來是否打算繼續從事這些其他業務？他們將如何為那些沒有直接接觸過設備的企業提供服務？

And then secondly, within the ASML business itself, I mean, one different thing that we're seeing is that NAND prices seem to be going up at a time when the orders in memory are pretty weak. So, Eric, do you believe that NAND orders are likely to be coming in, in a couple of quarters, or is there a clear disconnect between memory pricing now and the order intake?

其次，在 ASML 業務本身中，我們看到的一個不同的事情是，在內存訂單相當疲軟的時候，NAND 價格似乎正在上漲。那麼，埃里克，您是否認為 NAND 訂單可能會在未來幾個季度內到來，或者現在的內存定價和訂單量之間是否存在明顯的脫節？

Yes, so very good, so on your question of Cymer as a LCD small business, we will wait to hear from Cymer's decision about whether they want to invest more in this class or stay constant. We definitively would plan to have this group, this division as again an independent division and they would have to justify the business on their own. So at this moment clearly there would be no decision on our side. We will await for clues to have a proposal made by the current manager -- management of Cymer.

是的，非常好，所以關於您關於 Cymer 作為 LCD 小型企業的問題，我們將等待 Cymer 的決定，了解他們是否想在該​​領域投入更多資金或保持不變。我們確實計劃讓這個團隊、這個部門再次成為一個獨立部門，他們必須自己證明業務的合理性。因此，目前我們顯然還無法做出任何決定。我們將等待線索，以獲得現任經理——Cymer 管理層提出的建議。

Regarding the NAND orders, yes, we are seeing -- in fact our famous simulation system says that we should start seeing some orders but we don't yet. And the real point at this moment is that in a production environment, you can always squeeze a bit your environment, your production to get more out. So we see this is happening but not yet to a level where we would get orders, because again, nobody really can understand the capacity required by the PC environment. So this is -- hasn't triggered yet.

關於 NAND 訂單，是的，我們看到了——事實上，我們著名的模擬系統表明我們應該開始看到一些訂單，但我們還沒有。此刻的真正要點是，在生產環境中，您總是可以稍微擠壓一下您的環境、您的生產，以獲得更多的收益。所以我們看到這種情況正在發生，但尚未達到我們能夠獲得訂單的水平，因為沒有人真正能夠了解 PC 環境所需的容量。所以這是--尚未觸發。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Sachin Shah.

薩欽·沙阿。

Thanks for taking my question. Tullett Prebon. I wanted to find out the stock consideration. So are these shares in the US the ADRs? What actual -- there's a couple of listings of them. So is it ASML, US or UW? Which actual shares are you going to be getting?

感謝您回答我的問題。杜利特·普利邦。我想了解股票對價。那麼這些美國的股票就是ADR嗎？實際情況是——這裡有幾個清單。那麼是 ASML、US 還是 UW？您將獲得哪些實際股份？

Well, it's the issued shares will be New York shares. No ADRs, and will be -- those are listed on NASDAQ if you talk about the -- if you want to ask the abbreviation, just look at the -- one of the people here to just find you the right abbreviation. But it will be New York shares as we are currently listed.

嗯，發行的股票將是紐約股票。沒有 ADR，而且 — — 那些都在納斯達克上市，如果您談論 — — 如果您想問縮寫，只需查看 — — 這裡的一個人就會為您找到正確的縮寫。但由於我們目前已在紐約上市，因此股票將是紐約股票。

There are a couple of New York shares listed. So, would you happen to know offhand what specifically it is? There's UW (multiple speakers) and then US --?

有幾隻紐約股票上市。那麼，您是否知道它具體是什麼？有 UW（多位發言者）然後是美國－？

Well, it's -- why don't you -- sorry? It's US? It is ASML US.

嗯，這是──你為什麼不──對不起？是美國嗎？就是美國ASML。

Okay. Okay. And on the regulatory side, I just wanted to go over that with you. CPS is required. US HSR is required. And I think Germany is also required. Can you maybe just go over some of the other regulatory approvals and just to confirm and walk through, there are no concerns that you are expecting?

好的。好的。在監管方面，我只是想和你討論一下。需要 CPS。需要美國 HSR。我認為德國也是必需的。您能否只是看一下其他一些監管部門的批准，並確認一下，沒有任何您預期的擔憂？

Well, currently you are right. We don't expect concerns at this moment. And it's good to know that you've done the investigation into the anti-trust filing. This has to be in Germany because I don't know where we have come to that conclusion. But at least we would like to -- perhaps you can call our Investor Relations to share your views on that particular point.

嗯，目前你是對的。我們目前預計不會出現任何擔憂。很高興得知您已經對反壟斷申請進行了調查。這肯定是在德國，因為我不知道我們在哪裡得出這個結論。但至少我們希望——也許您可以致電我們的投資者關係部門來分享您對這一特定問題的看法。

But we are going through the areas and the territories where we do business. In every business, there are different thresholds of business that we need to achieve, which will trigger a regulatory filing or not. So that is the process we are currently going through. We haven't identify anything that causes us any concern.

但我們正在考察我們開展業務的地區和領土。在每項業務中，我們都需要達到不同的業務門檻，這是否會觸發監管備案。這就是我們目前正在經歷的過程。我們尚未發現任何令我們擔憂的事情。

And so just to confirm, the election of -- the stock component is not an election. It's fixed. It's already listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

因此，只是為了確認一下，股票成分的選舉不是選舉。已修復。它已經在紐約證券交易所上市。

Yes.

是的。

Okay, perfect, thank you.

好的，非常好，謝謝。

Andrew Gardiner.

安德魯加德納。

Thank you very much, it's Barclays. My question around -- again, around the Cymer transaction, I'm just wondering if there are any sort of restrictions in your ability to continue cooperating and working so closely with Cymer, in terms of the development of the EUV source, now that you've entered into an agreement to acquire the company?

非常感謝，我是巴克萊銀行。我的問題是關於 Cymer 交易的，我只是想知道，既然您已經達成收購該公司的協議，那麼在 EUV 源開發方面，您在繼續與 Cymer 密切合作和密切合作的能力方面是否受到任何限制？

Are there any issues in terms of making sure you stay at arm's length from each other, or have you got enough, I suppose, processes in place already that you can continue the development as is? I'm just thinking about concerns around the timeline of the EUV development. That's all. And also, in relation to the acquisition, how did you come to a decision around the stock versus cash split?

在確保彼此保持一定距離方面是否存在任何問題，或者我認為，您是否已經擁有足夠的流程，可以繼續按原樣進行開發？我只是在考慮有關 EUV 開發時間表的擔憂。就這樣。另外，關於收購，您是如何做出股票分割還是現金分割的決定的？

I will let Peter discuss stock versus cash. The restructuring to operate, no, we're not very worried. Of course, we understand a jump the gun situation. We have to continue our relationship versus as a separate entity, and we are planning to do so. But remember, this is a relationship of customer supplier, so it is natural that the supplier does some work with the customer and vice versa.

我會讓彼得討論股票與現金的關係。對於重組運營，不，我們並不太擔心。當然，我們理解這種搶先行動的情況。我們必須繼續我們的關係，而不是作為一個獨立的實體，我們正計劃這樣做。但請記住，這是一種客戶與供應商的關係，因此供應商與客戶進行一些工作是很自然的，反之亦然。

We have already [X] years of cooperation. So all this is just the same type of behavior potentially improved, but not because of the merger; it's because we are in a situation of cooperation. I believe the law would be a concern to us if there was a risk that either of the two companies would reduce or lose members of rights or assets during this transition period. That's not the case.

我們已經合作[X]年了。所以，這一切只是同一類型的行為可能得到的改善，但不是因為合併；因為我們處於合作的狀態。我認為，如果兩家公司中的任何一家在過渡期間有可能減少或失去成員的權利或資產，那麼法律就會成為我們的擔憂。事實並非如此。

We will be sure that Cymer's assets are respected and protected. Same for us. But again, we don't think there is any significant restriction of operation that would be of concern to the law.

我們將確保 Cymer 的資產受到尊重和保護。我們也一樣。但我們再次強調，我們認為不存在任何會引起法律關注的重大營運限制。

Yes, with respect to your question, how do we come to the consideration stock and cash, basically when we looked at it, we said we were both companies, like I said, earlier work in the same segment. We also believe after I talked to Cymer, and Cymer listened talking to us, we identified that in the shareholder base of the two companies were very much a focus of the shareholders on similar issues, like the success of the EUV program going forward, and the value that could generate to the Company going forward.

是的，關於您的問題，我們如何考慮股票和現金，基本上當我們看它時，我們說我們是兩家公司，就像我之前說的，在同一個領域工作。我們也相信，在我與 Cymer 交談之後，並且 Cymer 聽取了我們的談話後，我們發現兩家公司的股東都非常關注類似的問題，例如 EUV 計劃未來的成功，以及未來可能為公司帶來的價值。

So actually it appeared that both shareholders basis institutional investors focused on the same semiconductor industry, especially equipment industry, with an understanding of where we're going with our technology choices. That made it for us clear that that deal on the basis in our stock would actually be the most logical, because the institutional investor closure would actually stay, in fact, the same with regards to the industry that they are investing in.

因此實際上看起來，兩個股東基礎機構投資者都關注同一個半導體產業，特別是設備產業，並且了解我們的技術選擇方向。這讓我們清楚地認識到，以我們的股票為基礎的交易實際上是最合乎邏輯的，因為機構投資者的封閉實際上會保持不變，就他們所投資的行業而言。

One of the requests was that, of course, cash is always an objective feature, but that should not be the, let's say, the main element of this consideration. We wanted to do that, but basically the majority we wanted to be in stock to reflect the strategic nature of this transaction. And the cash was there too as an additional request and we were fine to do that.

其中一個要求是，當然，現金始終是客觀特徵，但這不應該成為這種考慮的主要因素。我們希望這樣做，但基本上我們希望大部分庫存都能反映出這筆交易的戰略性質。而且作為額外要求，我們還提供了現金，我們同意了。

Okay, thanks very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Janardan Menon.

賈納丹·梅農。

It's Liberum Capital. Just two questions. One is on the boundary side on the logic side. I'm just wondering, given that capacity of 28 nanometers has been ramped up as well about 200,000 wafers this year, and then the 300,000 wafers by middle of next year, plus the 22 nanometer ramp in the second half of next year, if you just compare those two ramps without taking into consideration any other factors like what the demand may be, et cetera, what would the foundry CapEx spending overall this year versus next year?

它是 Liberum Capital。僅兩個問題。一個是在邏輯側的邊界側。我只是想知道，考慮到今年 28 奈米的產能已經增加了約 200,000 片晶圓，到明年年中將增加 300,000 片晶圓，再加上明年下半年 22 納米的產能增加，如果只比較這兩個產能增加，而不考慮任何其他因素，例如明年

Would that be a flattish trend? Would that be up or would that be down, just based on the up to [EUR200,000] this year and then [300,000]. Of course, I agree that the slightly unknown factor is the extent of the 22 nanometer ramp next year but I presume you have some idea there.

這是否將是一個持平的趨勢？僅基於今年上漲至 [20 萬歐元] 然後上漲至 [30 萬歐元]，那麼這個數字是上漲還是下跌？當然，我同意稍微未知的因素是明年 22 奈米技術的進步程度，但我想你對此有所了解。

And the second question is on the acquisition of Cymer. Does that preclude Michio and Gigaphoton technology in your EUV roadmap? And if, by some chance, if that is not the case, and if one of them is successful, then where does that leave your involvement with Cymer by the end of the day?

第二個問題是關於收購Cymer的。這是否會排除 Michio 和 Gigaphoton 技術在您的 EUV 路線圖中？如果情況並非如此，而其中一個成功了，那麼您與 Cymer 的關係最終會如何發展？

Yes, I think it's about flat. We expect about a flat logic business for us in lithography between 2012 and 2013, on the assumption that the 22 nanometer. And I think, frankly, Craig would let you know for sure. But I think it's [40,000] away for capacity, which will be planned. And so on that assumption which is realistic, we would expect a flat logic but if it is more than [40,000] or 22 nanometers, then that could be because it could be additional customers coming in, in 22 nanometers.

是的，我認為它是平的。基於 22 奈米的假設，我們預計 2012 年至 2013 年間光刻領域的邏輯業務將持平。坦白說，我認為克雷格肯定會讓你知道的。但我認為容量還差 [40,000] 個，這將在規劃中。因此，基於這個現實的假設，我們期望一個平坦的邏輯，但如果它超過 [40,000] 或 22 奈米，那麼這可能是因為在 22 奈米可能會有額外的客戶加入。

Because the current plan that we have is very limited numbers of customers would go into 22 nanometer. So if there is another one, then it would be an upside. Okay? The Gigaphoton issue in UV. So like we have discussed with the Gigaphoton subject, we think that Gigaphoton business model has been to get into EUV when the EUV is more mature to get to this business as a follower. It is our understanding that they are still expecting to do so.

因為我們目前的計劃是，採用 22 奈米製程的客戶數量非常有限。所以如果還有另一個，那將是一個好處。好的？紫外線的千兆光子問題。因此，就像我們在討論 Gigaphoton 主題時一樣，我們認為 Gigaphoton 的商業模式是，當 EUV 更加成熟時進入 EUV，以追隨者的身份進入該業務。據我們了解，他們仍期待這麼做。

And therefore, when they get into the business, they will then benefit from what I explained before, which was equal opportunity or based on the decisions made by the earned customer. So in other terms, in this business, it's obvious that we did not expect this before the merger plan that the two would come early. We always expected Giga to be a follower. And this new concept doesn't change that.

因此，當他們進入該行業時，他們將受益於我之前解釋的內容，即平等機會或基於贏得的客戶所做的決定。所以換句話說，在這個業務上，很明顯我們在合併計劃之前並沒有預料到這兩家公司會這麼早就出現。我們一直希望 Giga 能成為追隨者。而這個新概念並沒有改變這一點。

We are going to make sure that our division with Cymer is indeed going to get this UV machine early enough and cost-effectively. And then, [one], two, three, four years, whatever detail will come in when EUV is, in fact, is a big business, in which case everybody will be happy.

我們將確保我們與 Cymer 的合作部門確實能夠儘早且經濟高效地獲得這台 UV 機器。然後，一、二、三、四年後，當 EUV 實際上成為一項大生意時，無論細節如何變化，到那時每個人都會很高興。

Okay. Got it. Thank you very much.

好的。知道了。非常感謝。

Stephane Houri.

史蒂芬·霍里。

Stephane Houri, Natixis. I have a quick question, if I may. I was looking at your statement about UV for next year, and the fact that it would represent around [EUR700 million], which makes an ASP of around [63]. Did you have to grant some discount because the throughput is not at the level expected? Or is there an element which is missing for me?

法國外貿銀行的 Stephane Houri。如果可以的話，我有一個簡單的問題。我正在看您關於明年 UV 的聲明，事實上它將代表大約 [7 億歐元]，這使得 ASP 約為 [63]。由於吞吐量未達到預期水平，您是否必須給予一些折扣？還是我缺少了什麼元素？

There is no discount there, because the throughput, like I said, is not a delivery specification. But we will have some accounting deferrals on that. And there's also one of those systems is going to be an R&D system, which is going to be booked in as a credit into the R&D line. But we will be a bit of accounting accrual as we normally have with some -- but it is largely the fact that one of those systems is not in the sales line but is in the R&D line.

那裡沒有折扣，因為正如我所說，吞吐量不是交付規範。但我們會對此進行一些會計延期。其中一個系統將成為研發系統，它將作為信用計入研發線。但我們會像平常一樣進行一些會計應計——但主要是因為其中一個系統不屬於銷售線，而是屬於研發線。

And where should we put the first delivery will be in Q1 or Q2?

我們應該將第一次交付安排在第一季還是第二季？

We are planning for Q1.

我們正在為第一季做計劃。

Q1, okay, thank you very much.

Q1，好的，非常感謝。

Mehdi Hosseini.

梅赫迪·胡賽尼。

My first question has to do with Cymer. I'm just curious to hear your thoughts as to what was the incremental catalyst for this transaction to happen? Over the past several years, there have been a number of challenges in commercializing EUV. As a matter of fact, ASML has put in place your own technologists at Cymer site to help with the migration or commercialization of EUV. But what happened over the past couple of months that pushed you over the edge and caused this transaction to happen? And then I have a follow-up.

我的第一個問題與 Cymer 有關。我只是好奇想聽聽您的想法，促成這筆交易的增量催化劑是什麼？過去幾年，EUV 商業化面臨許多挑戰。事實上，ASML 已經在 Cymer 工廠安排了自己的技術人員，以協助 EUV 的遷移或商業化。但是過去幾個月發生了什麼事情，讓你陷入困境並促成了這筆交易？然後我有一個後續問題。

Yes, this is a very good question. So, of course, in the mind of a manager, there is always two things. One is a market timing. Do we buy the wrong place, wrong time? And the other one, which is, in fact, much more important is, does it make sense businesswise?

是的，這是一個非常好的問題。所以，當然，在經理的心中，總是有兩件事。一是市場時機。我們是否在錯誤的時間、錯誤的地點購買了產品？而另一個實際上更重要的問題是，這從商業角度來說是否合理？

So we, of course, looked at both. Market timing issues and valuation and stuff, which we unfortunately had to go through sometimes we also -- we've looked at times where our share versus Cymer shares went up and down, et cetera. And you will notice that if you do this, the ratio of share to share today is not a bad time versus a year ago versus two years ago.

因此，我們當然會考慮這兩者。市場時機問題和估值等問題，不幸的是，我們有時也必須經歷這些問題——我們已經看到我們的股票相對於 Cymer 股票上漲和下跌的時間等等。你會注意到，如果你這樣做，今天的份額與份額之比與一年前或兩年前相比並不差。

So we did manage this, so that there is no bad timing versus valuation. It's never perfect timing, but we thought we think that today is really not ridiculous. Being, however, the master decision has been the business. And yes, I have to be honest with you. There are two models.

所以我們確實做到了這一點，這樣就不會出現時機與估值不符的情況。時機永遠不是完美的，但我們認為今天的情況確實並不荒謬。然而，最終的決定權還是在企業手中。是的，我必須誠實地告訴你。有兩種模型。

One is a model that says we have -- we are out of the source business, and we benefit from that as we benefit, for instance, to be out of the lens business. Zeiss is out. And we benefit from that. There is a good P&L compatibility but sometimes they have bad time, we have bad time, et cetera. And all this is well-organized and we also benefit from being separate.

一個模型是說我們已經－我們已經脫離了源頭業務，並且我們從中受益，例如，脫離鏡頭業務。蔡司出局了。我們從中受益。損益相容性很好，但有時他們也會遇到不好的時候，我們也會遇到不好的時候，等等。這一切都井然有序，我們也因分離而受益。

In the case of source business, we saw that there could be some times where it's better to be out or it's better to benefit from a fight between Michio Ushio, Gigaphoton and Cymer. It's better to also have them have different cycle than we have, et cetera, et cetera.

在源頭業務方面，我們發現，有時最好退出，或從 Michio Ushio、Gigaphoton 和 Cymer 之間的鬥爭中獲益。最好讓它們的周期與我們不同，等等。

And then we also looked at the positive of moving together, which was access to a bigger part of the pie, because EUV source is going to be a bigger part of the pie of the total system than ever. So today is no opportunity for us to get in.

然後，我們也看到了共同行動的積極意義，即獲得更大的份額，因為 EUV 光源在整個系統中所佔的份額將比以往任何時候都要大。所以今天我們沒有機會進入。

Second is, we realize, as I explained at the beginning, that there were so much synergy of efficiency in view of our going further the more we went into the development, the more we discovered the complexity, and more we discovered the need, in fact, to merge the way how to do it. So there was a learning slowly but surely that we gained a lot of synergies by, in fact, merging.

第二，正如我在一開始所解釋的那樣，我們意識到，隨著我們進一步深入開發，效率的協同效應越來越大，我們越發現其複雜性，就越發現需要合併實現方式。因此，我們慢慢地但肯定地了解到，透過合併，我們獲得了很多協同效應。

So on the one hand we discussed all the time here whether it's good or bad to be in that business. And then we were forced to get into this business when we discovered that there was positive synergy to get in and there was negative synergy not to do it. So in other terms today, I will go further, but if we were not to do it, we were at a point where we may have had to duplicate efforts to develop a number of parallel stuff, which would have not been in the interest of Cymer, nor would it have been, at the end of the day, it cost interest for us, therefore, from the industry.

因此，一方面，我們一直在這裡討論從事這項業務是好是壞。當我們發現進入這個行業有正面的綜效，而不進入這個產業則會產生負面的綜效時，我們就被迫進入這個產業。所以今天換句話說，我會更進一步，但如果我們不這樣做，我們可能就必須重複努力開發許多並行的東西，這不符合 Cymer 的利益，最終也不會讓我們失去對產業的利益。

So, when we made this decision, it was a natural thing that happened during the last nine months or so. And I have heard or read things in the newspaper that we've been influenced by customers and things. Honestly, the customers are supporting us; indeed, there is no question that that also will be helpful with the anti-trust. We're going to be hugely supported by customers. But really what happened is that we discovered that the best model for us for Cymer and for the industry is that we find the solutions together.

因此，當我們做出這個決定時，這是過去九個月左右自然發生的事情。我在報紙上聽到或讀到一些消息，說我們受到了顧客和其他事物的影響。說實話，顧客在支持我們；事實上，毫無疑問這也將有助於反壟斷。我們將得到客戶的大力支持。但實際上我們發現，對於 Cymer 和整個產業來說，最好的模式是共同尋找解決方案。

Yes, it was more than natural evolution. That is what Eric was saying. And finding out step-by-step that this wasn't the best solution. This doesn't happen from one day to the other. This is a slow, more like an evolutionary process.

是的，這不僅僅是自然進化。這就是埃里克所說的。並逐步發現這並不是最好的解決方案。這不是一天兩天就能發生的事。這是一個緩慢的、更像進化的過程。

Thanks for detailed color. Just one quick follow-up, rather clarification. You did say that you think that there would be 300,000 wafers per month additional or incremental logic capacity added by the middle of next year. Does that mean that the logic related bookings could decline in early 2013? Or am I missing something here?

謝謝你詳細的顏色。只需快速跟進一次，而不是澄清一下。您確實說過，您認為到明年年中，每月將增加 30 萬片晶圓的額外或增量邏輯產能。這是否意味著與邏輯相關的預訂量可能會在 2013 年初下降？或者我在這裡遺漏了什麼？

No, I don't think. So first of all, by logic, you know when you mentioned the numbers of wafers per month, we do that because the logic business goes towards a ramp-up from zero to some level which is either 200,000 wafers or 300,000 wafers. We have done this for 15 years or something. Every node to get to this. But the old node remains in action.

不，我不這麼認為。首先，從邏輯上講，當您提到每月晶圓的數量時，我們這樣做是因為邏輯業務從零開始逐漸增加到某個水平，即 200,000 片晶圓或 300,000 片晶圓。我們已經這樣做了大約15年。每個節點都到達這裡。但舊節點仍在運作。

So in other terms, an engine controller on 65 nanometer is still there. So 65 nanometer, I think it's a [300,000] wafer per month and it will remain there. So now you've got a new business called 28 nanometer, which is a new chip. And in this case, as you know these chips are basically the ones that are used in mobile stuff, and that will reach a level of 300,000 wafers. And if I'm not mistaken, [40] nanometer will only be [200] nanometer -- [40] nanometer (multiple speakers) [200,000 -- 240] nanometer is a small node. 28 nanometer is a big node at [300] nanometer.

換句話說，65 奈米的引擎控制器仍然存在。所以 65 奈米，我認為每個月的產量是 [300,000] 片晶圓，而且會保持在這個水平。所以現在你有了一項名為 28 奈米的新業務，這是一種新晶片。在這種情況下，如您所知，這些晶片基本上是用於移動產品的晶片，其產量將達到 300,000 片晶圓的水平。如果我沒記錯的話，[40] 奈米只不過是 [200] 奈米 -- [40] 奈米（多個揚聲器）[200,000 -- 240] 奈米是一個小節點。28奈米是[300]奈米的一個大節點。

And that will last until the middle of next year. That's what I say -- to build up.

這種情況將持續到明年年中。這就是我所說的──建設。

Yes, to build up and then that thing will stay in production for 100 years afterwards. Now, the bookings 100 years is poetic license. The bookings, however, will -- yes, we still need some bookings to make that up to June, but then there will be raising bookings when the 22 nanometer POPs up and that's not yet booked for us, and when demand and DRAM comes back. So we do not know when that pickup is going to happen. It's an obvious pickup. It is going to happen. Will it happen in Q4? Will it happen in Q1? We don't know.

是的，進行建設，然後該東西將在之後的 100 年內持續生產。如今，預訂100年已是詩意的許可。然而，訂單將會——是的，我們仍然需要一些訂單來彌補到 6 月的訂單，但是當 22 奈米 POP 出現並且我們還沒有預訂時，以及當需求和 DRAM 回升時，訂單將會增加。所以我們不知道這種回升何時會發生。這顯然是一個好消息。它將會發生。這會在第四季發生嗎？這會在第一季發生嗎？我們不知道。

Got it, thank you.

知道了，謝謝。

Simon Schafer.

西蒙·謝弗。

It's Goldman Sachs. Actually, I just wanted to go back on my question of sort of trying to get a sense as to where you think cross-cycle profitability now is? The premise of the question is that you clearly mentioned that the proposed assignment transaction is margin accretive at the gross margin level.

是高盛。實際上，我只是想回到我的問題上，試圖了解您認為跨週期盈利能力現在處於什麼水平？問題的前提是您明確提到擬議的轉讓交易在毛利率水準上可以增加利潤。

I think that's obvious from a multiyear perspective. And knowing the financials then, I think you've obviously also referred to the likelihood that the customer investment program is gross margin accretive, just because you do need to get compensation for the increased R&D level.

我認為從多年的角度來看這是顯而易見的。在了解了財務狀況後，我想您顯然也提到了客戶投資計畫增加毛利率的可能性，因為您確實需要獲得研發水準提高的補償。

So my question is, cross-cycle, historically, you have, I guess, in the last five or six years, you were looking at a 30% to maybe 45% type gross margin range. Going forward, if and when the cycle may recover, what sort of margin uplift do you think you're looking at? And if you could split that between the customer investment program and the proposed Cymer deal, that would be very, very helpful. Thank you.

所以我的問題是，跨週期，從歷史上看，我猜，在過去的五、六年裡，你的毛利率範圍大概在 30% 到 45% 之間。展望未來，如果週期可能恢復，您認為利潤率將獲得何種程度的提升？如果您可以將其分配給客戶投資計劃和擬議的 Cymer 交易，那將非常非常有幫助。謝謝。

Yes, I think you are right. And Eric, you know, alluded to that going forward, especially when EUV kicks in, there's going to be a significant component in cost of goods, that is now going to add to the gross margin, which is clear because we don't need to buy it in. So that is going to in the EUV area, especially in 2015 and '16, when EUV will start to ramp, will have a big impact on the gross margin, that is for sure.

是的，我認為你是對的。你知道，艾瑞克暗示，未來，特別是當 EUV 開始發揮作用時，商品成本中將佔很大一部分，這將增加毛利率，這很明顯，因為我們不需要購買它。因此，在 EUV 領域，特別是在 2015 年和 2016 年，當 EUV 開始普及時，肯定會對毛利率產生重大影響。

And we're talking about the big impact, you could think about, let's say, a gross margins anywhere between 45% and 50%, so they will move towards that range. Now, what the impact will be at that same time of the operating margin, that has to do with how quickly. And I mentioned that how quickly we can get to the synergies that we see, basically some more efficient R&D, it's simplifying the manufacturing processes; simplifying the sourcing strategies. You have to realize that a big part of the sourcing chain for Cymer EUV is similar to what the ASML sourcing chain.

我們正在談論巨大的影響，你可以想想，比如說，毛利率在 45% 到 50% 之間，所以他們就會向這個範圍靠攏。現在，這對營業利潤率的影響是什麼，這取決於速度有多快。我提到了我們可以多快地實現我們所看到的協同效應，基本上是一些更有效率的研發，它簡化了製造流程；簡化採購策略。您必須意識到，Cymer EUV 的採購鏈很大一部分與 ASML 採購鏈類似。

So there's a lot of opportunity for also the synergies there. Now, we made a preliminary calculation. The only thing I say, if we put the two companies together, and you look at what we have now identified as the synergies that we can achieve, we say, well, after 24 months after closing, I'd say closing happened somewhere in 2013. So it's at the end of 2015 area you would see, on the base of the combination of the two companies, is about a 5% accretion of the earnings per share.

因此，那裡也存在著許多實現協同效應的機會。現在，我們做了一個初步的計算。我唯一要說的是，如果我們把兩家公司合併起來，看看我們現在所確定的可以實現的協同效應，我們會說，好吧，在交易結束後的 24 個月，我會說交易發生在 2013 年的某個時候。因此，到 2015 年底，您會看到，在兩家公司合併的基礎上，每股盈餘將成長約 5%。

I think -- but if you now ask me, Peter, what does that mean in terms of your gross margin and your SG&A, I have an idea, but I think it is not opportune right now to give you all that detail, because there is still a couple of things that are open. I just want to give you, let's say, an impact on the EPS the way we see it today and I'd like to keep it there. But a couple of things happen. Gross margin will go up and also there will be more efficiency on the operating expense line.

我認為——但是如果你現​​在問我，彼得，這對你的毛利率和銷售、一般及行政費用意味著什麼，我有一個想法，但我認為現在還不適合向你提供所有細節，因為還有一些事情尚未解決。我只是想告訴你，比如說，對 EPS 的影響，就像我們今天看到的那樣，並且我希望它保持在那裡。但有幾件事發生了。毛利率將會上升，同時營運費用線的效率也會提高。

Makes sense. But I guess just to clarify the five points that you called out that includes both Cymer and the customer investment program.

有道理。但我想只是為了澄清您提到的包括 Cymer 和客戶投資計劃在內的五點。

Yes.

是的。

Got it, okay. Thank you very much.

知道了，好的。非常感謝。

All right, ladies and gentlemen, I'm afraid we've run out of time. If you were unable to get through with a question on this particular call, please feel free to contact the ASML guys here in Veldhoven and in the US. We do ask that you, as you can imagine, there is a extraordinary number of calls that we're handling this evening here in the Netherlands, and this afternoon in the US, so if you can just be patient and bear with us a bit, we would really appreciate that.

好的，女士們、先生們，恐怕我們的時間已經不夠了。如果您在本次通話中無法解答問題，請隨時聯絡位於費爾德霍芬和美國的 ASML 員工。我們確實請求您，正如您所想像的，我們今晚在荷蘭要處理大量的電話，今天下午在美國要處理大量的電話，所以如果您能耐心等待一下，我們將非常感激。

So now, on behalf of ASML's Board of Management, I'd like to thank you for joining us on today's call. And Operator, if you would formerly conclude the call for us, we would appreciate that, thank you.

現在，我謹代表 ASML 管理委員會感謝您參加今天的電話會議。接線員，如果您能提前為我們結束通話，我們將非常感激，謝謝。

Of course Mr. DeYoung. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the ASML 2012 third-quarter results conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

當然，DeYoung 先生。女士們、先生們，ASML 2012 年第三季業績電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。