艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2012 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for holding. Welcome to the ASML 2012 second quarter results conference call on July 18th, 2012.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的出席。歡迎參加2012年7月18日ASML 2012年第二季業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions).

（操作員指令）。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Craig DeYoung. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想將會議交給 Craig DeYoung 先生。先生，請繼續。

Thank you, Peter. Good afternoon and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Craig DeYoung, Vice President of Investor Relations here at ASML. I'd like to welcome you to our investor call and webcast. Joining me from our headquarters here in Veldhoven, the Netherlands, is Mr. Eric Meurice, ASML's CEO, and Mr. Peter Wennink, ASML's CFO.

謝謝你，彼得。女士們、先生們，下午好，早安。我是 ASML 投資人關係副總裁 Craig DeYoung。歡迎您參加我們的投資者電話會議和網路廣播。與我一起從荷蘭費爾德霍芬總部前來的還有 ASML 執行長 Eric Meurice 先生和財務長 Peter Wennink 先生。

As the operator mentioned, the subject of today's call is ASML's second quarter 2012 results. However, on July 9th, ASML announced a co-investment program in which customers will potentially contribute up to EUR1.4 billion over the next five years to accelerate development of 450 millimeter wafer platform and the next generation of EUV systems, both expected to enter volume production in the second half of this decade. So, we would welcome any remaining questions you might have about this program, in addition to those questions you might have about our Q2 results.

正如接線員所提到的，今天電話會議的主題是 ASML 2012 年第二季的業績。然而，7 月 9 日，ASML 宣布了一項共同投資計劃，客戶將在未來五年內潛在地貢獻高達 14 億歐元，以加速 450 毫米晶圓平台和下一代 EUV 系統的開發，預計這兩項技術都將在本世紀下半葉實現量產。因此，除了您對我們的第二季業績有疑問之外，我們還歡迎您提出有關該計劃的任何其他問題。

At this time, I'd like to draw your attention to the Safe Harbor statement contained in today's press release and in our second quarter results presentation, both of which you can find on our website at www.asml.com. This Safe Harbor statement will apply to this call and all associated presentation materials.

此時，我想提請您注意今天的新聞稿和我們的第二季業績報告中包含的安全港聲明，您可以在我們的網站 www.asml.com 上找到這兩項聲明。本安全港聲明將適用於本次電話會議及所有相關演示資料。

The length of the call will be 60 minutes, as normal.

通話時間將與往常一樣為 60 分鐘。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Eric Meurice for a brief introduction.

現在我想將電話轉給 Eric Meurice 進行簡短介紹。

Thank you, Craig. Good afternoon, good morning. Thank you for attending our conference call.

謝謝你，克雷格。下午好，早安。感謝您參加我們的電話會議。

As usual, before we begin the Q&A session, Peter would like to provide an overview and commentary on the second quarter result and provide an outlook for the year. I will, myself, complete the introduction with some further comments on the market view, longer term, and about our strategy.

像往常一樣，在我們開始問答環節之前，Peter 想對第二季的業績進行概述和評論，並對今年進行展望。我將親自完成介紹，並對市場觀點、長期觀點和我們的策略發表一些進一步的評論。

So, Peter, please, if you will?

那麼，彼得，你願意嗎？

Thank you, Eric, and welcome to everyone.

謝謝你，艾瑞克，歡迎大家。

Summarizing our second quarter, sales came in just above EUR1.2 billion, which is essentially the same as in the previous quarter. This quarter sales remained largely skewed towards the Foundry and IDM sectors, which was about 73%, including non-critical KrF systems, which is supporting the capacity additions.

總結我們的第二季度，銷售額略高於 12 億歐元，與上一季基本相同。本季的銷售額仍主要偏向代工和 IDM 領域，約佔 73%，其中包括支持產能增加的非關鍵 KrF 系統。

As in the first quarter, only 9% of second quarter sales went to the DRAM sector, with just under 20% going to NAND customers.

與第一季一樣，第二季只有 9% 的銷售額流向了 DRAM 領域，而略低於 20% 的銷售額流向了 NAND 客戶。

The average selling prince of all systems recognized in the second quarter was EUR22.4 million, reflecting a bit higher immersion shipments than the first quarter.

第二季所有系統的平均銷售額為 2,240 萬歐元，沉浸式系統出貨量比第一季略高。

Service and field-option sales came in at a record of EUR243 million, which is, again, driven by significant adoption of system-performance-enhancing field options.

服務和現場選項銷售額達到創紀錄的 2.43 億歐元，這再次受到大量採用系統效能增強現場選項的推動。

Updating our previously announced share buyback program as of July 10th, 2012, last week, ASML had repurchased 33.2 million shares, of which 7.5 million shares in 2012, for a total of EUR970 million, of which EUR270 million in 2012, giving an average buyback price of EUR29.

更新我們先前宣布的股票回購計劃，截至2012年7月10日，上週，ASML已回購3320萬億股，其中2012年回購750萬億股，共9.7億歐元，其中2012年回購2.7億歐元，平均回購價格為29.2億歐元。

For regulatory reasons in connection with the customer co-investment program, which we announced last week, ASML has suspended its share buyback program from July 10th, 2012, until further notice, and we intend to resume share buybacks when permitted under applicable regulations.

由於與我們上週宣布的客戶共同投資計劃相關的監管原因，ASML 已從 2012 年 7 月 10 日起暫停其股票回購計劃，直至另行通知，我們打算在適用法規允許的情況下恢復股票回購。

The second quarter net bookings came in at 43 systems valued at EUR949 million, excluding EUV. Booked average selling prices came in at EUR22 million, with the quarter's booking profile seeing a significant moderation in foundry orders at 36% of total orders. Half of that -- roughly half of what they were in the previous quarter.

第二季淨預訂量為 43 個系統，價值 9.49 億歐元（不含 EUV）。訂單平均售價為 2,200 萬歐元，本季的訂單狀況顯示代工訂單顯著下降，佔總訂單的 36%。其中一半——大約是上一季的一半。

The balance of orders was almost evenly split between IDMs, NAND, and DRAM. Our order backlog at the end of the second quarter was EUR1.5 billion, excluding EUV, by the way, totaling 55 systems with a strong average selling price of EUR27.3 million.

訂單餘額幾乎平均分配給IDM、NAND和DRAM。順便說一下，我們第二季末的訂單積壓為 15 億歐元（不含 EUV），總計 55 個系統，平均售價高達 2,730 萬歐元。

The backlog profile at the end of the quarter changed as combined memory moved upwards to 36% of total versus 23% at the end of the prior quarter, much of that change coming from DRAM as it moved from 2% to 14% of the backlog, reminding you, by the way, that this change is only 4 high-end units divided over 3 customers.

本季末的積壓情況發生了變化，合併記憶體佔總量的 36%，而上一季末為 23%，其中大部分變化來自 DRAM，其占積壓訂單的比例從 2% 上升到 14%，順便提醒您，這一變化只是 3 個客戶分配的 4 個高階單元。

As to the outlook, we estimate second half sales coming in between EUR2.2 billion and EUR2.4 billion, with third quarter estimate at EUR1.2 billion, at a gross margin of 43%.

至於前景，我們預計下半年銷售額將在 22 億歐元至 24 億歐元之間，第三季預估為 12 億歐元，毛利率為 43%。

R&D and SG&A expenses will be about EUR145 million for R&D and EUR60 million for SG&A, which is slightly above the previous quarters as we decided to upgrade and invest in our IT infrastructure throughout the remainder of the year.

研發和銷售、一般及行政費用約為 1.45 億歐元（研發費用）和 6000 萬歐元（銷售、一般及行政費用），略高於前幾個季度，因為我們決定在今年剩餘時間內升級和投資我們的 IT 基礎設施。

The second half looks to be sustained by an increased -- by an increase of system shipments supporting NAND shrink plants and by a low, but relatively stable, level of DRAM system shipments. We see lower 28 and 32 nanometer logic shipments in the second half compared with the first half and we see IDMs coming in slightly higher, when compared to the first half of this year.

下半年看起來將持續成長——支援 NAND 縮小工廠的系統出貨量將增加，而 DRAM 系統出貨量將保持在較低但相對穩定的水平。我們發現下半年 28 奈米和 32 奈米邏輯晶片的出貨量與上半年相比有所下降，而 IDM 晶片的出貨量與上半年相比則略有上升。

The exact level of sales achieved in the second half will largely depend on the strength of NAND pickup, to be mostly fueled by new ultrabook PCs and new smart phone RAMs.

下半年的具體銷售水準將在很大程度上取決於 NAND 的強勁成長，而這主要受到新型超極本 PC 和新型智慧型手機 RAM 的推動。

With this short summary, I would like to turn it back over to you, Eric.

透過這個簡短的總結，我想把它交還給你，艾瑞克。

Thank you, Peter.

謝謝你，彼得。

So, as confirmed by Peter, the balance of 2012 looks, in fact, steady. This should lead to nine consecutive quarters of about EUR1.2 billion or more of sales. This is pretty good in a non-fully-supportive economy worldwide.

因此，正如彼得所證實的，2012 年的餘額實際上看起來是穩定的。這將導致連續九個季度的銷售額達到或超過 12 億歐元。在全球經濟尚未完全復甦的情況下，這已經相當不錯了。

Further, our developing views on 2013 suggest that it will be supported by NAND and DRAM at the beginning of the year, assuming a good pickup of the PC ultrabook business and a continuation of the high hand mobile unit growth, along with a steady shipment to IDMs, which is also driven by PCs and a startup of 20 nanometer foundry logic by midyear 2013.

此外，我們對 2013 年的發展預測表明，年初 NAND 和 DRAM 將為市場提供支撐，前提是 PC 超極本業務能夠良好回升，移動設備銷量繼續保持高增長，同時 IDM 出貨量能夠穩定增長（這也是由 PC 推動的，2013 年中期 20 奈米代工邏輯的啟動也會帶來這一增長）。

The reason for the acceleration of the logic business in 2013 is a shortened node transition period between the current 28 nanometer node and a future 22 nanometer node, which will be about only one year, driven by the current race for best integration, best feature, best power consumption in the mobile arena where Intel architecture, the Intel architecture, and the ARM architecture will both play.

2013年邏輯業務加速發展的原因是，目前的28奈米節點與未來22奈米節點之間的節點過渡期縮短，大約只需要一年時間，而這得益於當前行動領域對最佳整合度、最佳功能、最佳功耗的競爭，英特爾架構、英特爾架構和ARM架構都將參與其中。

This transition is also very, very lithography intensive, as we expect between 1.7 and 2 times more immersion systems use per wafer start in 22 nanometer compared to 28 nanometer.

這種轉變對光刻技術的要求也非常高，因為我們預計，與 28 奈米相比，22 奈米晶圓上每個晶圓使用的浸沒式系統將多 1.7 到 2 倍。

EUV for R&D use will also contribute to 2013 sales, as we will ship up to 11 systems of the 3300 as we planned now for a long time. These will not contribute to production by customers. They will be only used for recipe engineering, but this will create nearly EUR800 million of revenue for ASML, which will add to the base sales for 2013.

用於研發的 EUV 也將為 2013 年的銷售做出貢獻，因為我們將按照長期計劃出貨多達 11 套 3300 系統。這些不會對客戶的生產做出貢獻。它們僅用於配方工程，但這將為 ASML 創造近 8 億歐元的收入，這將增加 2013 年的基礎銷售額。

Technically, to keep our immersion leadership, we continue to enhance the overlay throughput performance of our TWINSCAN NXT-1950 system. One of these systems, by the way, has exceed a productivity milestone, an enormous one, of more than 5,100 wafers in a single day at the customer manufacturing site, which is 600 wafers more per day than the previous record achieved only three months ago. It illustrates the continuing productivity improvement of our platforms for high-volume chip manufacturing.

從技術上講，為了保持我們的沉浸式領先地位，我們不斷增強 TWINSCAN NXT-1950 系統的覆蓋吞吐量效能。順便說一句，其中一個系統已經突破了生產力里程碑，客戶製造現場一天生產了超過 5,100 片晶圓，比三個月前創下的紀錄每天多出 600 片晶圓。這顯示我們的大批量晶片製造平台的生產效率不斷提高。

In addition, we will introduce a new version of the NXT, even capable of higher performance, higher throughput, and also better overlay, along with the install base upgrade by mid-2013.

此外，我們將在 2013 年中期推出新版本的 NXT，該版本將具有更高的性能、更高的吞吐量以及更好的覆蓋，同時也將升級安裝基礎。

We will continue, in parallel, to develop and introduce the extensive line of holistic lithography software/hardware products so as to enable recoil process control machine matching improvements, which are necessary in the complex nodes of the future.

同時，我們將繼續開發和推出廣泛的整體光刻軟體/硬體產品線，以實現反沖製程控制機器匹配的改進，這是未來複雜節點所必需的。

As part of this product portfolio our computational lithography unit line has delivered significant enhancement to its leading Mask 3D models and applications, which are required at the 20/22 nanometer node and below. The full accuracy of the Brion Mask 3D model can now be realized with virtually zero incremental computational cost versus substantially less-accurate thin mask models.

作為該產品組合的一部分，我們的計算光刻單元線對其領先的掩模 3D 模型和應用進行了顯著的增強，這是 20/22 奈米節點及以下節點所必需的。與精度低得多的薄光罩模型相比，現在幾乎可以以零增量計算成本實現 Brion Mask 3D 模型的全部精度。

Regarding our EUV program, customers have now exposed more than 15,000 wafers on the six machines, six NXE-3100 process development systems which are currently installed and we are confirming steady progress qualifying the platform towards customer production ramp, in fact the new platform, towards customer production ramp for 2014.

關於我們的 EUV 計劃，客戶現在已經在六台機器、六台 NXE-3100 製程開發系統上曝光了超過 15,000 個晶圓，我們正在確認平台正在穩步推進，以滿足客戶的生產需求，事實上，新平台正在爭取在 2014 年滿足客戶的生產需求。

This platform has shown exceptional performance, with a demonstrated 6 nanometer on-product overlay and with dedicated shock overlay of less than 2 nanometer, which is extraordinary performance. We have made constant progress on the EUV source, which, as you know, has been for a while the critical path technology that we have to master.

該平台表現出了卓越的性能，具有經過驗證的 6 奈米產品覆蓋層和小於 2 奈米的專用衝擊覆蓋層，這是非凡的性能。我們在 EUV 來源方面不斷取得進展，正如您所知，這一直是我們必須掌握的關鍵路徑技術。

With regards to the productivity itself, 50-watt power capability has now been repeatedly demonstrated at one supplier and 105-watt concept potential has been confirmed in lab experiments, supporting our road map to volume production systems, starting at 70 wafers per hour in 2014 and upgradeable to 125 wafers per hour two years later.

就生產力本身而言，50瓦的功率能力現已在一家供應商處得到反覆證明，105瓦的概念潛力已在實驗室實驗中得到證實，這支持了我們量產系統的發展路線圖，從2014年的每小時70片晶圓開始，兩年後可升級到每小時125片晶圓。

However, in situ, not only lab, but in situ experiments on the new machine called the NXE-3300 will be still necessary for full confirmation of this road map, although, as already planned, we still target to gather in effects by late summer to prove and confirm that road map.

然而，為了全面確認該路線圖，仍然需要在現場（不僅是實驗室），而且需要在名為 NXE-3300 的新機器上進行現場實驗，儘管按照已經計劃，我們仍然計劃在夏末收集效果以證明和確認該路線圖。

In view of the progress made, we have received a customer commitment to purchase 4 additional NXE-3300 systems. That makes it a total of 15, preparing, in fact, for the first semiconductor device production on EUV in 2014.

鑑於所取得的進展，我們已收到客戶承諾購買另外 4 套 NXE-3300 系統。這樣總數就達到了 15 個，實際上是在為 2014 年首次使用 EUV 生產半導體設備做準備。

So, in summary, we are encouraged, as Peter said, by the short-term view, 2012, and by the mid-to-long-term prospect of this lithography market, which is very, very much driven by a huge industry technology transition appetite.

因此，總而言之，正如 Peter 所說，從短期來看，2012 年以及光刻市場的中長期前景都令我們感到鼓舞，而光刻市場的發展很大程度上受到巨大的行業技術轉型需求的驅動。

So, with this, Peter and I will be pleased to take your questions.

因此，彼得和我很樂意回答您的問題。

Thanks, Eric, and thanks, Peter. Ladies and gentlemen, the operator will instruct you momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session, but beforehand and, as always, I'd like to ask you to kindly limit yourself to one question with one short follow-up, if necessary. This will allow us to get as many callers in as possible.

謝謝，艾瑞克，謝謝，彼得。女士們，先生們，接線員將立即向您介紹問答環節的規程，但在此之前，和往常一樣，我希望您只問一個問題，並在必要時進行一個簡短的跟進。這將使我們能夠接到盡可能多的來電者。

Now, operator, could we have your instructions and the first caller, please?

現在，接線員，請問您可以告訴我們您的指示並聯繫第一位來電者嗎？

Of course, sir. Thank you. (Operator Instructions). The first question comes from Sumant Wahi. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

當然，先生。謝謝。（操作員指令）。第一個問題來自 Sumant Wahi。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

This Sumant here from Redburn Partners. Good afternoon, guys, and thanks for taking my call.

我是 Redburn Partners 的 Sumant。大家下午好，感謝您接聽我的電話。

My question is actually more to do with the announcement last week, I mean, and your R&D expense. Given last week's announcement, you obviously intend to increase your R&D budget by 25%, I suppose starting from next year.

我的問題實際上更多地與上週的公告有關，我的意思是，以及你們的研發費用。從上週的公告來看，您顯然打算將研發預算增加 25%，我想從明年開始。

And I was just wondering how you will be recording this on your P&L and how will you be recording the cash from your customers which is being paid for this extra R&D. I mean, should we be anticipating a contraction in your operating margin next year and, hence, EPS, as well as the real revenue benefit from this higher R&D will only be coming a few years -- in a few years' time?

我只是想知道您將如何在損益表中記錄這一點，以及如何記錄客戶為這項額外研發支付的現金。我的意思是，我們是否應該預期明年您的營業利潤率會下降，從而每股收益會下降，而更高研發投入帶來的實際收入收益要過幾年才會出現——幾年後？

So, that's my first question. Then I have a follow-up.

這是我的第一個問題。然後我有一個後續問題。

No, I don't think you should simulate at this moment any reduction of profitability, short-term, through that deal. The accounting is going to be a bit different per customer. In case of a significant party, the accounting of this funding will be done below or above the gross margin line. So, there will be a bit of difficult to trace all these numbers, but in -- as a generality, we intend to manage the P&L as we have always been doing, which is providing to the market a steady increase of profitability.

不，我認為你現在不應該透過這筆交易模擬任何短期獲利能力的下降。每個客戶的會計處理都會有點不同。如果涉及重要方，則該資金的會計將在毛利率線以下或以上進行。因此，追蹤所有這些數字會有點困難，但總的來說，我們打算像往常一樣管理損益，這將為市場帶來穩定成長的獲利能力。

We expect that steady increase to come through this funding, a bit, but also through the fact that this acceleration of new products is going to deliver a higher top line. So, we're going to have a higher top line. We probably are going to have a higher gross margin because of these accounting situations. We are going to have a higher R&D gross expense because, in fact, we will invest more in R&D for these accelerations, and a part of that will be compensated by the R&D funding.

我們預計，透過這筆資金，我們不僅能夠實現穩定成長，而且新產品的加速推出也將帶來更高的營收。因此，我們的營業額將會更高。由於這些會計情況，我們可能會有更高的毛利率。我們的研發總支出將會更高，因為事實上，我們將為這些加速投入更多的研發資金，其中一部分將由研發資金來補償。

But, in any case, we do expect a steady increase of our profitability.

但無論如何，我們確實預期獲利能力將穩定成長。

Obviously, on higher revenue for next year, I suppose, which is --

顯然，我想，明年的收入會增加，也就是──

Well, I did not guide 2013 yet, but we expect higher profitability.

嗯，我還沒有預測 2013 年的獲利情況，但我們預計獲利能力會更高。

Okay. And my follow-up question, very quickly, is on the demand from the NAND sector, which is coming towards the second half. Is this more capacity expansion, i.e., new factories, or mostly just technology upgrade? And kind of within that, I mean, the bit growth you're expecting for DRAM and NAND this year or next year would be really helpful. Thank you.

好的。我的後續問題是關於 NAND 領域的需求，該領域即將進入下半年。這是更多的產能擴張，即新建工廠，還是主要是技術升級？並且，我的意思是，您預期今年或明年 DRAM 和 NAND 的位元成長將會非常有幫助。謝謝。

So, on NAND it will -- the pickup we are expecting is a pickup that the customers will, in fact, see in their own shipment of semiconductors with -- by the beginning of 2013. So, we are going to have to ship lithography tool and then six months or so later, you will see the chips. And so we're talking about chips out in 2013, lithography in, starting Q4, Q1, Q2, of 2013.

因此，就 NAND 而言，我們預計客戶在 2013 年初的半導體出貨量中就會看到這一回升。因此，我們必須運送光刻工具，然後大約六個月後，你會看到晶片。因此，我們討論的是 2013 年推出的晶片，以及從 2013 年第四季、第一季和第二季開始推出的光刻技術。

This pickup will be new factories, yes, absolutely, and requirement for more machines because of the technology transition. So, you're going to have the two drivers, more factories, more wafers, and more machines per wafer to adapt to the new technology.

是的，絕對會新建工廠，而且由於技術轉型，需要更多的機器。因此，你需要兩個驅動因素：更多的​​工廠、更多的晶圓以及每個晶圓更多的機器來適應新技術。

Your other question was?

您的另一個問題是？

It was the bit growth in DRAM and NAND for next year, I suppose?

我想這是明年 DRAM 和 NAND 的位元成長吧？

Bit growth. So, we're not forecasting those. We just follow what Gartner says and at this moment I think Gartner kind of says of 40-ish, 45% growth of DRAM, I guess, and about 60% growth on NAND. If these numbers are realized, we will grow, as we said. We also believe, from what we heard from the importance of the new form factor PC and new solid-state drive that the Gartner numbers may be conservative.

位元增長。所以，我們不會預測這些。我們只是遵循 Gartner 的說法，目前我認為 Gartner 所說的 DRAM 成長率為 40% 左右，我猜是 45%，NAND 成長率約為 60%。如果這些數字能夠實現，我們就會成長，正如我們所說的。我們也認為，從我們所了解的新型 PC 和新型固態硬碟的重要性來看，Gartner 的數字可能有些保守。

So, in other terms, if the Gartner number is what they are, they will sustain growth for us, and it is possible that the Gartner numbers are a bit conservative.

因此，換句話說，如果 Gartner 的數字屬實，那麼他們將為我們維持成長，而 Gartner 的數字可能有點保守。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Janardan Menon. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Janardan Menon 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Hi. It's Janardan from Liberum Capital.

你好。他是 Liberum Capital 的 Janardan。

Just to follow up a little bit on the memory side, you said that in the first half of next year your sales will be more to the DRAM and NAND segment and then with the foundries picking up around the middle of the year. So what kind of visibility do you have on that memory spending for the first half of next year? Do you have sort of commitments which are not yet reflected in your purchase orders and, therefore, not shown in your backlog? Or is it that you're expecting those orders to come through to you, order commitment to come through to you over the next couple of quarters?

關於記憶體方面，您說過明年上半年您的銷售額將更多來自 DRAM 和 NAND 領域，而代工廠的銷​​售額將在年中左右回升。那麼您對明年上半年的記憶體支出有何展望？您是否有尚未反映在採購訂單中，因此未顯示在您的積壓訂單中的承諾？或者您期望這些訂單能夠到達您手中，訂單承諾能夠在接下來的幾個季度內到達您手中？

And a follow up is on EUV. You said you'll hit 70 wafers an hour by 2014 and 120 wafers a couple years later. So, what kind of throughput do you expect to get to when you start shipping the units at the end of this year or early next year with the NXE-3300.

後續工作是關於 EUV。您說過，到 2014 年，您的生產能力將達到每小時 70 片晶圓，幾年後將達到每小時 120 片晶圓。那麼，當您在今年年底或明年年初開始運送 NXE-3300 設備時，您預計會達到什麼樣的吞吐量。

Okay. So, regarding the commitment, backlog, et cetera, the answer is yes and yes. We have startup of orders, bookings, which came, driven by this growth curve. So, we have a bit -- we have received numbers of orders for that, but most of the orders haven't come yet. They are more commitments/production expectations. So, they will come into the backlog through new bookings in Q3 and Q4.

好的。因此，關於承諾、積壓等等，答案是肯定的。受此成長曲線的推動，我們已開始處理訂單和預訂。因此，我們收到了一些訂單，但大多數訂單還沒有到。它們更多的是承諾/生產期望。因此，他們將透過第三季和第四季的新訂單進入積壓訂單。

Regarding the speed of EUV, so the reason why we still don't have factual data on the speed itself of the EUV machine is because the lab experiments are driven in the lab, as well as on the 3100 architecture, which is not similar architecture than the 3300 machine, which is planned to be available to experiment by October-November timeframe. So, only by then will we know exactly how all of these technologies, as you say, get installed on to the quote/unquote final machine.

關於 EUV 的速度，我們之所以還沒有關於 EUV 機器本身速度的實際數據，是因為實驗室實驗是在實驗室中進行的，並且是在 3100 架構上進行的，而 3100 架構與 3300 機器的架構並不相似，後者計劃在 10 月至 11 月期間投入實驗。因此，只有到那時，我們才能確切地知道所有這些技術是如何安裝到最終機器上的。

The minimum performance from what we can see at this moment would be, I would say, a 30-ish wafer per hour, if we get unlucky on the first machine, with more work to stabilize the controls mechanism potentially taking three months, six months or so, to get to a point where the 30 wafer per hour will transform itself in 70.

從目前我們所能看到的來看，最低性能是每小時生產 30 片晶圓，如果第一台機器運氣不好，則需要做更多的工作來穩定控制機制，這可能需要三個月、六個月左右的時間，才能達到每小時生產 30 片晶圓的水平，並在 70 分鐘內實現這一目標。

So, if you get to 30 by the end of this year, would that be enough to convince your customers to move EUV into volume production in 2014?

那麼，如果到今年年底你們的數量達到 30 家，這是否足以說服你們的客戶在 2014 年將 EUV 投入大量生產？

We already got the orders for four. We are negotiating a number, additional number. The data today is good enough to suggest that you should starting into production in 2014.

我們已經收到四份訂單。我們正在協商一個數字，額外的數字。今天的數據足以表明您應該在 2014 年開始生產。

I would even say to you with the data we have today, if we were to stop new development, we would get to this 30, 40 wafer per hour, so, yes, without any more development, based on the new machine, the 3300, which is more effective, energy effective. And that already would not be a bad number for production.

我甚至可以告訴你，根據我們今天掌握的數據，如果我們停止新的開發，我們每小時可以生產 30 到 40 片晶圓，所以，是的，不需要再進行任何開發，基於新機器 3300，它更有效率、更節能。對生產來說這已經不是一個糟糕的數字了。

So, the level of customer risk for 2014 at this moment has reduced significantly. Now, don't get me to say that 40 wafer per hour is a good number and that's my new commitment. That's not what I mean, but it says that the worst case situation, in case a terrible situation happened, by which we couldn't do even any progress, is already not a catastrophe.

因此，目前來看，2014年的客戶風險水準已大幅降低。現在，不要讓我說每小時 40 片晶圓是一個好數字，這是我的新承諾。這不是我的意思，但它說的是，最糟糕的情況是，如果發生了可怕的情況，我們甚至無法取得任何進展，這已經不是一場災難了。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Stephane Houri. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Stephane Houri 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Yes, good afternoon. Stephane Houri, Natixis. Two questions, if I may. The first one is that you're talking already of the 22 nanometer or 20, 22 nanometer transition and you are saying there is some weakness in the 28-32. Can you tell us where we are exactly in the current transition?

是的，下午好。法國外貿銀行的 Stephane Houri。請問我有兩個問題。第一個問題是，您已經在談論 22 奈米或 20、22 奈米的過渡，並且您說 28-32 奈米存在一些弱點。能告訴我們目前轉型的具體進展嗎？

And you also said that 20-22 was twice as much litho intensive than the previous generation. Can you remind us how much more intensive is the 32 for the 28?

您也說過 20-22 的光刻強度是上一代的兩倍。您能提醒我們 32 比 28 強度高多少嗎？

And also, a second question on the bunch of orders for EUV, can you specify if it's for memory, if it's only for customer? And I heard you say that you had -- you are negotiating currently. Are you currently negotiating a new bunch of orders? Thank you.

另外，關於 EUV 訂單的第二個問題，您能否具體說明它是用於內存，還是僅供客戶使用？我聽到您說過，您目前正在進行談判。您目前正在協商一批新訂單嗎？謝謝。

Okay, so a good set of questions. So, the -- I didn't say the 28 was weak, I said that we are getting to the end of the build-up of 28 nanometer capacity.

好的，這是一組很好的問題。所以，我並不是說 28 奈米很弱，而是說我們即將到達 28 奈米產能建設的尾聲。

So, if we ship all the plans up to the end of Q4, we would have reached about 200,000 wafers per month, 200,000, 220,000. There is a set of customers who tell us that 28 will continue well into 2013 and there are plans, at this moment, to get from this 200, 220, to about 350,000 wafer per month capacity.

因此，如果我們在第四季末之前完成所有計劃，那麼我們每月的晶圓產量將達到約 200,000 片、200,000 片、220,000 片。有一群客戶告訴我們，28%的產能將持續到2013年，目前他們計劃將每月晶圓產能從200、220提高到約350,000片。

So, if I were to listen to customers at this moment, I would, in fact, tell you that 28 nanometer is only 70% done and you need another 30% or whatever capacity to be built on. But even with upside possibility by Q4 and clearly significant shipment in Q1 and Q2 2013. So call it a potential upside for 2013.

因此，如果我現在聽取客戶的意見，我實際上會告訴您，28 奈米僅完成了 70%，您還需要另外 30% 或更高的產能來進行生產。但即使第四季仍有上漲的可能性，且 2013 年第一季和第二季的出貨量也明顯較大。因此，我們可以稱之為 2013 年的潛在上升趨勢。

Okay.

好的。

So, [2000 28] in our press release is like we would have expected this to stabilize at 220, 230,000 wafers, but people are talking about more.

因此，我們在新聞稿中 [2000 28] 預計產量將穩定在 220,000 到 230,000 片晶圓，但人們談論的更多。

20 nanometer, 22 nanometer is -- usually would have started in 2014, but in view of the huge drive by the mobile environment in which you have the big fight between the ARM architecture and the Intel architecture, both architectures driving to excellence and excellence being far away, let me try to explain.

20 奈米、22 奈米通常是在 2014 年開始的，但考慮到行動環境的巨大推動力，ARM 架構和英特爾架構之間展開了激烈的競爭，兩種架構都在追求卓越，但距離卓越還很遙遠，讓我試著解釋一下。

When you get to an application where you still have multiple chips, you have a chipset into a smart phone, you know that you're forced to try to get the chipset to be integrated on to one chip. Until that continues, there will be a huge incentive to customers to try to make that leap and get to the next technology, which allows you to have the famous one-chip solution.

當你進入一個仍然有多個晶片的應用程式時，你將晶片組放入智慧型手機中，你知道你必須嘗試將晶片組整合到一個晶片上。在此之前，客戶將有巨大的動力去嘗試實現這一飛躍並採用下一代技術，這將使您擁有著名的單晶片解決方案。

So, we expect the one-chip solution to happen beyond 20, 22 nanometer and we expect this to be a hard-fought battle between the Intel architecture and the ARM architecture. So, that creates a moment in the market on the side of Intel, and on the side of the others, to build up these new technologies faster than ever before.

因此，我們預計單晶片解決方案將在 20、22 奈米之後出現，我們預計這將是英特爾架構和 ARM 架構之間的一場艱苦的戰鬥。因此，這為英特爾和其他公司在市場上創造了一個機會，可以比以往更快地開發這些新技術。

So, that will benefit lithography, because, in addition, those technologies are very complicated to build, as I said, 1.7 times to 2 times more lithography intensive by wafer on 20, 22, versus 28, 32, because 28, 32 is the same node. So, if you wanted to compare 28, 32 to 45 nanometer, I cannot answer your question easily, but we can get you that data in due time if you call Franki or Craig.

因此，這將有利於光刻技術，因為此外，這些技術的建造非常複雜，正如我所說，20、22 晶圓的光刻強度是 28、32 晶圓的 1.7 倍到 2 倍，因為 28、32 是相同的節點。因此，如果您想比較 28、32 和 45 奈米，我無法輕易回答您的問題，但如果您致電 Franki 或 Craig，我們可以及時為您提供該數據。

Okay.

好的。

Regarding EUV, so, yes at the moment the units that we have accepted an order are for DRAM, as we always said DRAM at least two critical layers are so complicated that I guess if we do not execute EUV by 2014, there will be a delay in the shrink. So, customers have realized that and, therefore, are very hugely incentivized to do that.

關於 EUV，是的，目前我們接受訂單的單位是用於 DRAM 的，正如我們一直所說的那樣，DRAM 至少有兩個關鍵層非常複雜，所以我想如果我們不在 2014 年之前實施 EUV，那麼微縮就會延遲。因此，客戶已經意識到了這一點，並因此受到極大的激勵去這樣做。

The second set -- batch of orders that we are currently negotiating are for, also, 2014, and they are DRAM. The third set is for logic and in the logic arena we expect to have to be in production for 2015 or so in a node which will be called anywhere near 14 nanometer or 11 or 12 nanometer, whatever, but they will mean the same thing.

我們目前正在協商的第二批訂單也是2014年的，是DRAM。第三組是針對邏輯的，在邏輯領域，我們預計將在 2015 年左右投入生產，該節點將被稱為 14 奈米或 11 或 12 奈米左右，但它們的含義相同。

We are going to have in the logic arena a node which will look like a 20 nanometer design rule using architectures of transistors like FinFET. That will be a node that will come just beyond 20, 22, and the, on the back of it, there will be, in 2015 or so, a node using the same type of architecture, FinFET, but with a shrink factor. And that node will be called 14 or 12 or whatever for, I would say, marketing reasons, and that node is -- absolutely requires EUV. With EUV, you cannot shrink.

在邏輯領域，我們將擁有一個看起來像 20 奈米設計規則的節點，使用像 FinFET 這樣的電晶體架構。那將是一個剛好超過 20、22 的節點，在它之後，在 2015 年左右，將會出現一個使用相同類型架構 FinFET 的節點，但尺寸會有所縮小。出於行銷原因，該節點將被稱為 14 或 12 或其他名稱，而且該節點絕對需要 EUV。有了 EUV，就無法縮小。

So, in other terms, if I make myself clear, we are going to have 20, 22. We are going to have 20, 22 with a type of FinFET architecture which allows an improved performance but not yet a shrink, and you are going to have that technology shrunk. And that will happen from now on until 2015, '16, and that's, again, hugely lithography intensive.

所以，換句話說，如果我說清楚的話，我們將有 20、22 個。我們將擁有 20、22 種 FinFET 架構，這種架構可以提高效能，但還不能縮小尺寸，而且您將會採用該技術縮小尺寸。這個過程將從現在開始一直持續到 2015 年或 2016 年，而這個過程對光刻技術的要求將非常高。

Even whether you use immersion, double-double patterning, or you use EUV, you're talking about huge numbers of critical layers, and a huge number of lithography-enabling tools like the holistic lithography set of products that we have.

無論您使用浸沒式、雙重圖案化還是使用 EUV，您談論的都是大量的關鍵層，以及大量的光刻支援工具，例如我們擁有的整體光刻產品套件。

So, we see logic dwarfing, basically, DRAM anyway by 2015 or so, back (inaudible).

因此，我們看到邏輯技術基本上會比 DRAM 落後，到 2015 年左右就會回來了（聽不清楚）。

Just on your question what the difference was between the 28 and the 20 nanometer node in terms of lithography usage, on the 20 nanometer node, the average that we've looked at is about one or two double-patterning layers for the 28 nanometer node going to be about 10 at 20. So, that is quite a significant increase in double patterning.

關於您的問題，在光刻技術使用方面，28 奈米和 20 奈米節點之間有什麼區別，在 20 奈米節點上，我們看到的平均值是，28 奈米節點大約有一到兩個雙重曝光層，而 20 奈米節點大約有 10 個。因此，雙重模式的增加相當顯著。

Of course, some of that we will compensate by giving customers access to new technology that gives them higher throughput and better yields. So, some of it will be compensated through the new technology that we are shipping.

當然，我們會透過向客戶提供新技術來彌補其中的一些缺陷，從而提高他們的產量和收益。因此，其中一部分將透過我們正在推出的新技術得到補償。

Okay. Thank you very much. Very clear.

好的。非常感謝。非常清楚。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Simon Schafer. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自西蒙·謝弗先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Thanks so much. It's Goldman Sachs.

非常感謝。是高盛。

Actually, I had a similar question about the layer intensity, but I was wondering whether maybe you could help us understand how we should translate that sort of layer intensity into a percentage of sales computation. I think the one thing that is obvious is that lithography has clearly been the one area in semi CapEx overall or wafer fab equipment, at least, where capital intensity is not falling. But the historical average, I think, is sort of in the 15% range.

實際上，我對層強度也有類似的疑問，但我想知道您是否可以幫助我們理解如何將這種層強度轉化為銷售額的百分比計算。我認為顯而易見的一點是，光刻技術顯然是半導體資本支出總體或晶圓廠設備中資本密集度至少沒有下降的領域。但我認為歷史平均值大約在 15% 左右。

Any sense as to whether that 15% is not structurally 20% or 18% or any sort of measure for the type of increase that you may expect would be very helpful. Thanks.

任何關於這 15% 在結構上是否不是 20% 或 18% 或任何衡量您可能預期的成長類型的指標都會非常有幫助。謝謝。

Yes. No, we think we're reaching -- we will be reaching more towards 20%, 22%, mainly, also because we -- I think we are more intensive in lithography in the logic arena. So, in this -- and logic may represent a bigger share than it used to, so that's also a factor that tell us that we can get into a higher percentage of the total CapEx, semiconductor CapEx.

是的。不，我們認為我們正在達到——我們將達到 20%、22%，主要是因為我們——我認為我們在邏輯領域的光刻技術方面更加深入。因此，在這方面，邏輯可能比以前佔有更大的份額，這也是一個因素，告訴我們我們可以獲得更高比例的總資本支出，即半導體資本支出。

Got it. That's very clear, thank you.

知道了。非常清楚，謝謝。

And my second question, actually, is on the capital structure. Obviously, great to see the announcement from last week and a big underpinning of your positioning, but the one thing, of course, it doesn't really change is the fact that when all is said and done your capital structure, arguably, is still relatively cash-rich if you're in a good environment cyclically. So, any update as to what you may look to do, then, once the transaction is complete? Thanks.

我的第二個問題其實是關於資本結構的。顯然，很高興看到上週的公告以及對你們定位的重要支撐，但有一件事當然不會改變，那就是當一切都說完了，如果你處於一個良好的周期性環境中，你的資本結構可以說仍然相對現金充裕。那麼，交易完成後，有什麼打算嗎？謝謝。

Yes, I think it's going to be a repeat of what we said last quarter. Basically, we have the policy to return cash that we don't need and we do that through share buybacks and through dividends whereby the latter we intend to let it grow, but once we have decided to let it grow, it at least has to be stable at that level.

是的，我認為這將重複我們上個季度所說的內容。基本上，我們的政策是返還我們不需要的現金，我們透過股票回購和股息來實現這一點，我們打算讓股息成長，但一旦我們決定讓它成長，它至少必須穩定在那個水平。

Clearly, what we have decided internally that we will use the fall period to reassess. Every one or two years we are going to reassess the policy, the capital policy, of the Company and we're going to review whether the ratio between share buybacks and dividends, as we have seen in the past, whether that should remain or whether we should adapt that to different views.

顯然，我們內部已經決定，將利用秋季重新評估。每隔一兩年，我們就會重新評估公司的政策、資本政策，並審查股票回購和股息之間的比率（正如我們過去所見），是否應該保持不變，或者是否應該根據不同的觀點進行調整。

So, that is more, let's say, further detailing of our overall policy, which is the money that we don't need, we will give back. As I said in my introductory comments, we have temporarily suspended the share buyback program because of regulatory reasons. Once those have been resolved -- and they result from the transaction that you mentioned, last week -- then we will just resume share buybacks as we did before.

因此，可以說，這進一步詳細說明了我們的總體政策，即我們不需要的錢，我們將退還。正如我在開場白中所說，由於監管原因，我們暫時停止了股票回購計畫。一旦這些問題得到解決（它們源自於您上週提到的交易），我們就會像以前一樣恢復股票回購。

Great. Thanks, Peter.

偉大的。謝謝，彼得。

The next question comes from Mr. Mahesh Sanganeria. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Mahesh Sanganeria 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Thank you. Mahesh Sanganeria, RBC Capital Markets.

謝謝。Mahesh Sanganeria，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Eric, I have a question on the four new EUV tools. Are the commercial agreements and margins and throughput commitment and all those, are they similar to the first 11 tools or these four have a different arrangement?

Eric，我對四種新的 EUV 工具有疑問。商業協議、利潤率、吞吐量承諾等是否與前 11 種工具類似，或者這四種工具有不同的安排？

Good news, they are a different arrangement. Bad news, they are a different arrangement.

好消息是，它們是一種不同的安排。壞消息是，他們的安排不同。

As some of you know, the 11 original tools are as-is, because the customers accepted to participate to this project as an R&D project. As we know, this is beyond commercial relationships, this is a development of a new technology, so they accepted to take the 11 tools as-is, so we can ship at the best specification we can get and that's it, which is why we believe that we are going to recognize revenue next year, no matter what the exact performance of the tool is.

正如你們中的一些人所知，最初的 11 個工具保持原樣，因為客戶同意以研發專案的形式參與專案。我們知道，這超越了商業關係，這是一項新技術的發展，所以他們同意按原樣採用這 11 種工具，這樣我們就可以按照我們能得到的最佳規格發貨，就是這樣，這就是為什麼我們相信無論工具的具體性能如何，明年我們都會確認收入。

However, we mentioned clearly to the customers that we now are ready to take firm commitments on the specification. We did not get push-back from the customers. Indeed, they understand that we have to take that responsibility, which solidifies, in fact, the fact that we are serious for production in 2014.

但是，我們向客戶明確表示，我們現在已經準備好對規範做出堅定的承諾。我們並未受到客戶的反對。事實上，他們明白我們必須承擔起這項責任，這實際上鞏固了我們對 2014 年生產的認真態度。

So, the specification, indeed, says you've got to pay this price for a machine capable of 70 wafers per hour, upgradeable within two years to 125.

因此，規格確實表明您必須為每小時可生產 70 個晶圓的機器支付這個價格，並且可在兩年內升級到 125 個。

Okay and then on -- a question on the near term. As you're look in the second half, in terms of your order profile, will it be similar to Q2, like memory and logic split almost 50/50 or are you seeing more memory in the second half in terms of orders?

好的，然後——關於近期的一個問題。從下半年的訂單情況來看，它是否會與第二季度類似，例如記憶體和邏輯分割幾乎是 50/50，或者從訂單來看下半年是否會有更多的記憶體？

Difficult to call the bookings. As usual, as we said to you 10 times, it's a bit difficult to time the bookings. It depends on the customers. Sometimes they book with three months lead time. Sometimes they book with six. Sometimes they book with nine. If it's logic, it's sometimes longer cycle times (inaudible). So, your question is nearly impossible to answer.

很難打電話預訂。像往常一樣，正如我們向您說過 10 次的那樣，安排預訂時間有點困難。這取決於客戶。有時他們會提前三個月預訂。有時他們會預訂六個人。有時他們會預訂九個。如果這是邏輯的話，那麼有時週期時間會更長（聽不清楚）。所以，您的問題幾乎無法回答。

I could say that I should -- we should get in Q3 more memory bookings than we should get logic, but I would not even be sure of that, so, sorry, I retire my comment. It can be anything. But the billings will be what I said, which is a decrease of logic and IDM and increase of memory.

我可以說我們應該——我們應該在第三季度獲得比邏輯更多的內存預訂，但我什至不確定這一點，所以，抱歉，我收回我的評論。它可以是任何東西。但帳單將是我所說的，即邏輯和 IDM 的減少以及記憶體的增加。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Sandeep Deshpande. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自桑迪普·德什潘德先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Yes. JPMorgan. Thanks for letting me on.

是的。摩根大通。謝謝你讓我加入。

Eric, I have just a question. I mean, overall in the comments you made in the release this morning, ASML seems to be much more sanguine or bullish than the peers in semi cap. So, I mean, can you make a comment on why you think you are different versus your peer group? I mean, is it because of your long lead times? Is it your market share? So, what do you think, internally, is the reason for that? And I have one follow up.

埃里克，我有一個問題。我的意思是，從您今天早上發布的評論來看，ASML 總體上似乎比半導體行業的同行更加樂觀或看漲。那麼，我的意思是，你能否評論為什麼你認為自己與同齡人不同？我的意思是，這是因為你的交貨時間很長嗎？這是你的市佔率嗎？那麼，您認為從內部來看，造成這種情況的原因是什麼？我還有一個後續問題。

Yes, it's difficult for me to judge how our peers are seeing -- what they are seeing and the specifics of their technologies, but I can guess that the lead time is a key point, that we are starting to see what they haven't yet seen.

是的，我很難判斷我們的同行是如何看待的——他們看到了什麼以及他們的技術的具體細節，但我可以猜測，前置時間是一個關鍵點，我們開始看到他們還沒有看到的東西。

Okay. And then, just moving on in terms of your existing products, we've seen that lithography has been increasing as a percentage of sales for your customers, but also your customers are seeing a lot of concentration. We've seen DRAM has concentrated quite significantly over the last couple of years. Do you see that as a risk for your ASP, say, two years from now, despite your own very strong market position?

好的。然後，就您現有的產品而言，我們已經看到光刻技術在您客戶的銷售中所佔的百分比一直在增加，而且您的客戶也看到了很大的集中度。我們發現 DRAM 在過去幾年已經相當集中。儘管貴公司擁有非常強大的市場地位，但您是否認為，比如說，兩年後，這會對貴公司的平均銷售價格 (ASP) 造成風險？

No, in fact, I see the opposite. The consolidation has two values. One, it creates an opportunity for customers to have R&D capability and the fear factor for us remains only whether customers can shrink. If customers can shrink and there is enough design to take the shrink, lithography will be a huge growth business for the future.

不，事實上，我看到的恰恰相反。合併有兩個價值。一是為客戶創造了擁有研發能力的機會，而我們擔心的只是客戶是否會縮水。如果客戶能夠縮小尺寸，並且有足夠的設計來適應這種縮小，那麼光刻技術將成為未來一個巨大的成長業務。

So, the fundamental is we need customers capable of shrinking. We need customers capable of R&D. So -- and, therefore, we are very, very happy with consolidation. This is huge compared to any commercial, short-term situation.

因此，根本的是我們需要能夠縮小規模的客戶。我們需要具有研發能力的客戶。因此，我們對合併感到非常非常高興。與任何商業、短期情況相比，這都是巨大的。

The second bit about consolidation is what happened last week is, in fact, due to the fact that the consolidation of large customers allows us to make a point that lithography becomes a nature or it's a weapon required by the whole industry for the whole industry's benefit. And if you had 15, 20 customers, this message would have been extremely difficult to pass, where the 15, 20 customers would fight themselves to try to have a smart way of solving the lithography system. But with fundamental, say 10, 8, large customers, they understand that lithography has become the weapons that they have to help, to subsidize, to get going for their own business model, which, at the end of the day, is designing chips for shrink.

關於整合的第二點是，上週發生的事情實際上是由於大客戶的整合，這讓我們能夠指出，光刻技術成為一種自然，或者說是整個行業為了整個行業的利益所需要的一種武器。如果你有 15、20 個客戶，這個訊息就會很難傳達，因為這 15、20 個客戶會爭相嘗試一種巧妙的方法來解決光刻系統問題。但對於基礎客戶，比如說 10 個、8 個大客戶，他們明白光刻技術已經成為他們必須幫助、補貼的武器，以推動他們自己的商業模式，而歸根結底，這種商業模式就是為縮小尺寸而設計晶片。

So consolidation is a very good thing for that and it has helped us tremendously in the discussions of the deal, first with Intel, and at this moment with the others.

因此，合併對我們來說是一件非常好的事情，它對我們在交易談判中提供了極大的幫助，首先是與英特爾，現在是與其他公司的談判。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Didier Scemama. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Didier Scemama 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Good afternoon. It's Merrill Lynch. Thanks for taking my question. My first question, if I may, is about gross margins. Can you, maybe, talk about the underlying gross margin assumption we should have for 2013 on the EUV machines and whether you also have, maybe slightly higher or improved gross margin for the non-EUV part of the business? But a quick follow up. Thanks.

午安.是美林證券。感謝您回答我的問題。如果可以的話，我的第一個問題是關於毛利率的。您能否談談我們對 2013 年 EUV 機器的基本毛利率假設，以及非 EUV 業務部分的毛利率是否也略有提高或提升？但要快速跟進。謝謝。

yes, we've -- at the danger of repeating myself, last quarter I said that the gross margin target for 2013 is the high 20s.

是的，儘管我可能會重複，但上個季度我曾說過，2013 年的毛利率目標是 20% 以上。

EUV.

極紫外光（EUV）。

That is what we are focusing at on EUV. Yes, yes, thank you, Eric. Just to make that sure. And we need about a two years' period to get to the corporate average. That's what we've said before. This is still our target.

這就是我們在 EUV 上關注的重點。是的，是的，謝謝你，艾瑞克。只是為了確保這一點。我們需要大約兩年的時間才能達到企業平均。這就是我們之前所說的。這仍然是我們的目標。

Now, on the gross margin of the non-EUV tools, you could always -- if you really look a bit deeper into our current results and you look at our gross margins that we're currently showing, that gross margin, currently, includes running EUV costs that we have in the EUV factory that we currently have. So, the gross margins stay where they are from a corporate point of view. So, from a corporate average point of view, they stay flat, while our costs have gone up.

現在，關於非 EUV 工具的毛利率，如果您深入了解我們目前的業績，並看看我們目前顯示的毛利率，就會發現目前的毛利率包括我們目前在 EUV 工廠中運行 EUV 的成本。因此，從企業角度來看，毛利率保持不變。因此，從企業平均角度來看，它們保持不變，而我們的成本卻上升了。

So, you can deduce from that, that the underlying gross margins of our non-EUV tools have actually gone, which is true, and that has been driven by the increase of the system enhancement, which we sell on top of the bare tool. That has given a positive side or what is a positive boost to the gross margin profile of the non-EUV tools, and has helped us cover the current EUV running costs that are not part of cost of goods.

因此，您可以從中推斷出，我們的非 EUV 工具的潛在毛利率實際上已經下降，這是事實，這是由系統增強功能的增加所推動的，我們在裸機上銷售系統增強功能。這對非 EUV 工具的毛利率狀況產生了積極的推動作用，並幫助我們彌補了目前不屬於商品成本的 EUV 運作成本。

Yes, brilliant. I mean, that's very clear.

是的，很棒。我的意思是，這非常清楚。

And then a quick follow up to one of your statements, Eric, a bit earlier. You said that at 28 nanometer for logic, the build up is more or less finished in your view, but one or, I guess, some of your customers want to increase that to 350,000 wafers per month. So, I'm just trying to understand what, exactly, you're trying to say there. Is one of your customers trying to substantially increase capacity and you don't believe them or how should we understand that?

然後，艾瑞克，我們來快速跟進你剛才的陳述。您說過，對於邏輯而言，28 奈米製程的建置已經基本完成，但我猜您的某個客戶或某些客戶希望將其產量提高到每月 350,000 片晶圓。所以，我只是想了解你到底想說什麼。您的某個客戶是否正在嘗試大幅提高產能，但您卻不相信他們，或者我們應該如何理解這一點？

No, I think what I tried to say is that in the current press release we are not taking care of the possibility of an upside.

不，我想說的是，在目前的新聞稿中，我們並沒有考慮到上漲的可能性。

And is that one particular customer or is it multiple foundries?

這是某個特定的客戶還是多家代工廠？

No, it's all of the foundries.

不，是所有的鑄造廠。

Brilliant. Thank you very much.

傑出的。非常感謝。

The question asked -- and it's not our opinion, sorry, then I missed it. I did not communicate our opinion. We did not want in the press release to say the EUR2.2 billion to EUR2.4 billion guidance reflects an upside. It doesn't. Now, there's always a possibility of an upside.

所問的問題——這不是我們的意見，抱歉，我錯過了。我沒有傳達我們的意見。我們不想在新聞稿中說 22 億歐元至 24 億歐元的指導值反映了上行潛力。事實並非如此。現在，總是存在著上漲的可能性。

Why would they go for an upside? What's the rationale? The rationale is that they have under-invested in 45 nanometer, 40, 45 nanometer. 65 was a big node. 28 could be a very big node to compensate for the fact that they didn't transfer too many things on 45 nanometer.

他們為什麼要追求好處呢？理由是什麼？原因在於他們對 45 奈米、40、45 奈米的投資不足。65 是一個大節點。28 可能是一個非常大的節點，以彌補他們沒有在 45 奈米上轉移太多東西的事實。

So, there is a business model out there that says, in fact, 28 should be bigger and we don't have an opinion on that. We have to see whether they are right and whether, in fact, there is going to be so many mobile systems, et cetera.

因此，有一種商業模式認為，事實上 28 應該更大，我們對此沒有意見。我們必須看看他們是否正確，以及是否實際上會有這麼多的移動系統等等。

If you talk to the fabless guys and they talk about the potential numbers of smart phones at 2 billion, going from 1.2 billion or so, 1.2 billion, 1.3 billion, to 2 billion, if that's the case, yes, you can imagine that they will need much more wafers.

如果你與無晶圓廠商交談，他們談到智慧型手機的潛在數量為 20 億部，從 12 億部左右，12 億部，13 億部，到 20 億部，如果是這樣的話，是的，你可以想像他們將需要更多的晶圓。

Just so I understand, your guidance for Q4, what you're talking about at the moment, does not include this potential upside and what you're concerned about is what, the macro side and the fact that yields at 28 are going to get better?

我的理解是，您對第四季度的指導，即您目前談論的內容，並不包括這種潛在的上行空間，而您擔心的是什麼，宏觀方面以及 28 的收益率會變得更好這一事實？

Well, no, because we usually don't guide just on rumors. So, that's all it is. Don't read anything that we don't believe in anything. We just tell you that there is a debate in the market as to how many wafers more are needed in 28 and we have not put this into our forecast.

嗯，不是的，因為我們通常不會僅根據謠言來指導。就這樣吧。不要讀任何我們不相信的東西。我們只是告訴您，市場上對於 28 年需要多少晶圓存在爭論，我們尚未將其納入預測中。

So, just to be clear, EUR2.2 billion to EUR2.4 billion does not include any upside to this 350,000 wafer starts.

因此，需要明確的是，22 億歐元至 24 億歐元並不包括這 35 萬片晶圓的任何上行空間。

220,000.

22萬。

Sorry, yes, that's what Eric's said.

抱歉，是的，艾瑞克就是這麼說的。

Okay, super. Thanks very much.

好的，太棒了。非常感謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Gareth Jenkins. Please state your company, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自加雷思·詹金斯先生。請說明您的公司，然後提出您的問題。

Yes, it's UBS. Thanks for taking the question.

是的，是瑞銀。感謝您回答這個問題。

Just a quick question on 20 nanometer lithographer requirements. I think you're now saying, effectively, that the requirements over 28 would be 70% to 100% higher. I think previously you said somewhere around 60% higher. I just wondered what the increment that you have learned in the last few months has been that has warranted that increase in intensity as you look forward?

我只是想問一下關於 20 奈米光刻機要求的問題。我認為您現在實際上是在說，超過 28 歲的要求將高出 70% 到 100%。我認為您之前說過大約高出 60%。我只是想知道，在過去的幾個月裡，您學到了什麼，以確保您在未來能夠增加強度？

And then just secondly, I guess, one for Peter, maybe, in terms of hiring the additional R&D staff that you need, the 25% to 30% additional R&D engineers, what, I guess problems that poses and whether you feel that you can get the available labor for 450 and the second phase of EUV.

其次，我想，我想問 Peter 一個問題，也許在僱用所需的額外研發人員方面，25％ 到 30％ 的額外研發工程師，我猜這會帶來什麼問題，以及您是否覺得可以獲得 450 名 EUV 第二階段所需的勞動力。

So, I can answer the 20 nanometer. You talked about ratio 1.7 to 2 times more early, so, no, I think we always said that. I do not remember having said less than that. In fact, we were waiting a bit to know if that ratio is based on the same yield and the same utilization rate than 28, because you don't want to be biased by a difficult start and the 2 times, the 1.7 to 2 times, is based on a good start.

所以，我可以回答20奈米。您早些時候談到了 1.7 到 2 倍的比例，所以，不，我認為我們一直都這麼說。我不記得我說過比這更少的話。事實上，我們等待了一段時間，想知道這個比率是否基於與 28 相同的產量和相同的利用率，因為你不想被困難的開始所影響，而 2 倍，1.7 到 2 倍，是基於良好的開始。

So, if 20, 22 is a big issue where they have trouble to do yield and to do utilization, then we will have to ship even more than what we plan. So, this number that we have is an acceptable economic target.

因此，如果 20、22 是一個大問題，他們在實現產量和利用率方面遇到困難，那麼我們將不得不出貨比計劃的更多。所以，我們的這個數字就是一個可以接受的經濟目標。

Regarding the R&D buildup, Peter?

關於研發建設，彼得？

Yes, like we said, we need between 1,000 and 1,500 engineers. We don't intend to put all those people on the payroll. As you know, we have a flex model. We have dozens of companies that actually help us find those people. Those are specialized engineering companies, which, basically temp labor companies. So, they're already gearing up.

是的，正如我們所說，我們需要 1,000 到 1,500 名工程師。我們不打算把所有這些人都列入薪資單。如您所知，我們有一個彈性模型。我們有幾十家公司實際上幫助我們找到這些人。這些都是專業工程公司，基本上就是臨時工公司。所以，他們已經做好準備了。

I mentioned -- I think I mentioned on the previous call that over the last 12 to 18 months about 50% of the people that we hired were non-Dutch, so we basically get them out of the European zone. So, we're not confined to the Netherlands only.

我提到過——我想我在上次電話會議上提到過，在過去的 12 到 18 個月裡，我們僱用的員工中約有 50% 是非荷蘭人，所以我們基本上讓他們離開了歐洲區。所以，我們的業務範圍不僅限於荷蘭。

So, it is us and our supply chain, by which I mean the flex labor supply chain, that have to deal with this particular challenge, but also some of that work and I think a significant part of that work will go into the supply chain with our knowledge and research institute partners, which, of course, have also people available now and especially in this macroeconomic circumstances and they're glad to take up the challenge to provide us with additional engineers.

因此，我們和我們的供應鏈（我指的是彈性勞動力供應鏈）必須應對這一特殊挑戰，但其中一部分工作，我認為很大一部分工作將投入到供應鏈中，與我們的知識和研究機構合作夥伴合作，當然，他們現在也有可用的人員，特別是在這種宏觀經濟環境下，他們很樂意接受挑戰，為我們提供更多的工程師。

So, yes, it is going to be -- also, it's going to take a bit of time until we ramp to the peak of the program, we're two, three years down the road, probably two years, which also gives us a bit of time to actually hire those engineers and hiring 750 or 800 engineers per year, we have done that before.

所以，是的，這將是——而且，我們需要一些時間才能達到專案的頂峰，我們還需要兩三年的時間，可能是兩年，這也給了我們一些時間來實際僱用這些工程師，每年僱用 750 或 800 名工程師，我們以前已經這樣做了。

So, yes, it'll be a challenge for our HR organization, but in this times, that's a nice challenge.

所以，是的，這對我們的人力資源組織來說是一個挑戰，但在這個時候，這是一個很好的挑戰。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Francois Meunier. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Francois Meunier 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Yes, hello. It's Francois at Morgan Stanley. Thanks for taking my question.

是的，你好。我是摩根士丹利的弗朗索瓦。感謝您回答我的問題。

I've got a very simple question, actually, because the announcement last week was also about 450 millimeters. Is 450 millimeters a good thing for ASML?

實際上，我有一個非常簡單的問題，因為上週宣布的也是約 450 毫米。450毫米對於ASML來說是件好事嗎？

It's not a bad thing. It's -- I think it's a good thing for the industry, so it's going to be a good thing for us.

這並不是一件壞事。我認為這對行業來說是一件好事，所以對我們來說也是一件好事。

As you know, you may be asking this question because some of our peers are concerned about 450. If you are a chamber-type business, 450 millimeter is a big problem, because the same chamber in the same time would process twice as many dies. So, theoretically, if your price is about the same because the chamber adds the same price, you would cut your business by a factor of two. So, 450 millimeter would be a very negative point for a chamber-type business.

如您所知，您之所以問這個問題，可能是因為我們的一些同行對 450 感到擔憂。如果您經營的是腔室式企業，那麼 450 毫米就是一個大問題，因為相同的腔室在相同的時間內會處理兩倍數量的模具。因此，從理論上講，如果由於商會增加了相同的價格而導致您的價格大致相同，那麼您的業務就會減少一倍。因此，對於商會類型的企業來說，450 毫米是一個非常負面的點。

We're not a chamber-type business. We are a painting business. The painter is a big lens and it paints centimeter by centimeter or nanometer by nanometer and, therefore, if you have on the same wafer more nanometer, well, the painter will spend more time.

我們不是商會類型的企業。我們是一家油漆公司。繪圖儀是一個大鏡頭，它以厘米為單位或奈米為單位進行繪製，因此，如果在同一塊晶圓上繪製的奈米數越多，那麼繪圖儀花費的時間就越多。

So, the machine itself you will need as many machines per square centimeter on the 300 millimeter base or 450 millimeter. It doesn't change at all our economics.

因此，對於機器本身，您需要在 300 毫米或 450 毫米的基座上每平方厘米安裝同樣多台機器。它絲毫沒有改變我們的經濟狀況。

And we were a bit concerned that we would have to do this work without the industry complete aligned on a specification and a timing and we would have to over-invest in R&D in a wait-and-see attitude and then, as usual, wait and then have the machine ready, nobody takes it, and then two or three years later, somebody takes it. That would have been a cost-inefficient way.

我們有點擔心，我們必須在行業沒有完全就規範和時間達成一致的情況下開展這項工作，我們將不得不以觀望的態度在研發上投入過多，然後像往常一樣，等到機器準備好了，卻沒有人購買，然後兩三年後，才有人購買。這是一種成本低效率的方法。

Now with this consortium that we've built, we are now pretty happy that the execution is an execution between consolidated customers, consolidated supplies, and we can align the dates, align the money and, therefore, do this in the most efficient way.

現在，透過我們建立的這個聯盟，我們非常高興執行是在合併的客戶、合併的供應商之間進行的，我們可以協調日期、協調資金，從而以最有效的方式完成這項工作。

So, a bit of a follow up on this one. When you said -- I mean, you probably have to redesign the chassis, because, obviously, the wafer will be -- it will be quite happy as it happened before when you switched from 200 to 300 millimeter.

因此，對此進行一些跟進。當你說——我的意思是，你可能必須重新設計底盤，因為顯然晶圓會——它會非常令人滿意，就像你之前從 200 毫米切換到 300 毫米時發生的那樣。

Is the price going to change much, basically, for a given machine?

對於給定的機器，其價格基本上會發生很大變化嗎？

The price will go up by a factor about 10%-ish, if we execute correctly, between the 300 millimeter and the 450 millimeter machine of the equivalent spec. But in 2018, when those machines will be in production a 300-millimeter machine will cost X times more than what we are doing today.

如果我們正確執行的話，同等規格的 300 毫米和 450 毫米機器之間的價格將上漲約 10%。但在 2018 年，當這些機器投入生產時，一台 300 毫米機器的成本將比我們現在的機器高出 X 倍。

So, the NXT machine, 300-millimeter machine of 2018 will cost, I don't want to give you a number, but EUR70 million, anyway. And the 450 equivalent would cost EUR77 million or something of this nature.

因此，2018 年的 NXT 機器（300 毫米機器）的成本將為，我不想給你一個數字，但無論如何是 7000 萬歐元。而 450 輛這樣的汽車的成本將達到 7,700 萬歐元左右。

So, the ASP growth comes through the resolution and the performance of the machine and not so much of the die size -- I mean, the wafer size. The wafer size will get us an additional inflation of 10%, roughly.

因此，ASP 的成長來自於機器的解析度和性能，而不是晶片尺寸——我的意思是晶圓尺寸。晶圓尺寸將為我們帶來約 10% 的額外通膨。

Okay. So we agreed to push from the biggest maker of chips today. Do you think the others will follow or they are still discussing and feeling a bit (inaudible) about actually moving to 450?

好的。因此我們同意向當今最大的晶片製造商發起挑戰。您認為其他人會跟著做嗎？或者他們仍在討論並且對實際移動到 450 有點（聽不清楚）感覺？

So, sorry, are you asking the question, are they joining the consortium or are they joining 450, or both?

所以，抱歉，您問的問題是，他們是加入財團還是加入 450，或者兩者兼而有之？

450.

450.

450. On 450 it is not abnormal that a leader leads and you need one to build up momentum in the industry and I think Intel has been clear that they wanted to do so and they believe that it's good for the industry for them to sponsor that technology. And that will be useful for the others to get in when, in fact, this infrastructure will exist, again helped by Intel.

450.在 450 上，領導者的領導並不罕見，你需要一個領導者來在行業中建立勢頭，我認為英特爾已經明確表示他們希望這樣做，並且他們相信贊助該技術對行業有利。事實上，當這個基礎設施建成後，這將有助於其他人加入進來，而英特爾也會再次提供幫助。

At this moment, we suppose that the best date for really production -- and I don't mean recipe, R&D, and all that stuff, would be 2018 or so.

目前，我們認為真正生產的最佳日期——我不是指配方、研發和所有這些東西——是 2018 年左右。

Okay. Very helpful. Thank you, Mr. Meurice.

好的。非常有幫助。謝謝你，莫里斯先生。

Merci.

謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Mehdi Hosseini. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Mehdi Hosseini 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Thank you. Mehdi Hosseini, Susquehanna International.

謝謝。薩斯奎漢納國際公司的 Mehdi Hosseini。

Two questions, first on the EUV, how should we think about the booking and revenue recognition. Where would you start to actually include it and to get the revenue recognition? What are the key milestones and would it take more than one quarter? And I do have a follow up.

兩個問題，首先關於 EUV，我們應該如何考慮預訂和收入確認。您將從哪裡開始實際將其納入並獲得收入確認？關鍵里程碑是什麼？是否需要超過一個季度的時間？我確實有後續行動。

Yes, on the revenue recognition, Eric said it's, I think, at the beginning of this call that somebody asked a similar question. We have, for the 11, 12 units we have an agreement with our customers that they accept the tools as-is, because it's more an R&D project and we basically share the risk of the introduction of that tool. So, that will be when we ship the tool, we book the revenue.

是的，關於收入確認，埃里克說，我認為在這次電話會議開始時有人問過類似的問題。對於第 11、12 個單位，我們與客戶達成協議，他們接受原樣工具，因為這更像是研發項目，我們基本上分擔引入該工具的風險。所以，當我們出貨工具時，我們就會記錄收入。

But also we will book the order. I mean, you know how many orders we have, so if you want to see when it flows into the backlog and when it goes back out, it will be a turns business when we ship. So, we give you separate number of units that we have on order.

但我們也會預訂訂單。我的意思是，你知道我們有多少訂單，所以如果你想知道它什麼時候流入積壓訂單，什麼時候返回，當我們發貨時這將是一個輪流業務。因此，我們會向您提供我們訂購的單獨數量的單位。

Beyond that, we said the tools that we are booking today, they will-- they are currently being booked with certain performance criteria and that we need to meet at shipment, which will be for 2014, which will, basically, mean that we will have revenue recognition as we have it today, and then, also, we will have bookings as we have it today.

除此之外，我們說過，我們今天預訂的工具，它們將——目前正在按照特定的性能標準進行預訂，並且我們需要在 2014 年發貨時滿足這些標準，這基本上意味著我們將獲得與今天相同的收入確認，然後，我們也將獲得與今天相同的預訂。

But for the first 12, so that's for the next 12 months, you will see turns when we book the revenue for the first 11, 12 units.

但對於前 12 個月，也就是接下來的 12 個月，當我們記錄前 11、12 個單位的收入時，您會看到轉變。

Great. And just one very quick follow up on the foundry-related booking and how the capital intensity could go up by 2 times. In terms of the dollar value of booking, should we expect similar trend like last year, where foundries took a pause, it did have an adverse impact on your overall booking, but then it came back very strong in Q4 of last year with shipment for 2012? Should we assume the same kind of trend, especially given the higher dollar of booking because of the increased capital intensity?

偉大的。只需快速跟進與代工相關的預訂情況以及資本強度如何增加 2 倍。就訂單的美元價值而言，我們是否應該預期會出現與去年類似的趨勢，當時代工廠暫停生產，這確實對你們的整體訂單產生了不利影響，但隨後在去年第四季度隨著 2012 年的出貨量而強勁回升？我們是否應該假設同樣的趨勢，特別是考慮到由於資本密集度增加而導致的預訂金額更高？

We don't know. Again, bookings timing is an impossible question. We just don't know. Everything is possible.

我們不知道。再次強調，預訂時機是個不可能的問題。我們只是不知道。一切皆有可能。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Jagadish Iyer. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Jagadish Iyer 先生。請說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Yes. Piper Jaffray. Two questions. First, Eric, you had called out the color in terms of DRAM and NAND for the first half of '13 and also foundry for the second half. I was just wondering, how should we think about overall immersion tool shipments in 2013, directionally, given that you're concurrently going to be shipping several EUV systems? And then I have a follow up.

是的。派珀·傑夫雷。兩個問題。首先，艾瑞克，您已經預測了 2013 年上半年 DRAM 和 NAND 的情況，以及下半年代工的情況。我只是想知道，考慮到你們將同時交付多個 EUV 系統，我們應該如何從方向上考慮 2013 年整體浸沒式工具的出貨量？然後我有一個後續行動。

You want me to guide on 2013, but I will resist. So, I'm not going to help you. No, no, no. It's too early. It's too early. What we said at the beginning of the call is we have numbers of positive drivers.

你要我指導2013年，但我會拒絕。所以，我不會幫助你。不，不，不。太早了。太早了。我們在電話會議開始時說過，我們有許多積極的推動因素。

The biggest one is 20, 22 nanometer ramp, which could be a big one. As I said, it's a multiplier by 1.7 to 2 times the run rate of 28 nanometer. So, if it starts early enough in 2013 you will have a run rate which is 1.7, double times, what will happen in 2012, then, of course, it'll only be six months, but then in the first six months, if you have NAND and DRAM, as we said we are going to have and if the up side on 28 nanometer comes in, 2013 is a fairly good year and, therefore, there is growth of the immersion tools.

最大的一個是20、22奈米斜坡，這可能是一個很大的斜坡。正如我所說，它是 28 奈米運行速度的 1.7 到 2 倍。因此，如果它在 2013 年足夠早地開始，那麼您的運行率將達到 1.7，是 2012 年的兩倍，那麼，當然，這只需要六個月，但是在前六個月，如果您擁有 NAND 和 DRAM，正如我們所說的那樣，我們將擁有，並且如果 28 納米的優勢出現，那麼 2013 年將是相當大的工具，因此會增長式工具將會增長。

Then you add to this the famous EUR800 million of EUV and then 2013 is a pretty good year.

再加上著名的 8 億歐元 EUV，2013 年將會是相當不錯的一年。

But it's too early, six months. 22 nanometer may be delayed because of a technology issue. Qualcomm may say the price is too high, so I'm not going to convert my 28 to 22 so quickly. You may have some impact. So, it's too early to build up your firm scenario.

但現在還太早，六個月。22奈米可能會因為技術問題而延遲。高通可能會說價格太高，所以我不會這麼快就將我的 28 轉換為 22。你可能會產生一些影響。因此，現在建立你的公司前景還為時過早。

Okay, fair enough. So, just a follow up on the EUV. I was just wondering, how are you going to be de-risking yourself in terms of the laser source vendors? It looks like one of them is ahead of the pack. I was just wondering that, given there could be so many challenges ahead, so how are you de-risking yourself and how are you pushing the other vendors to come up to a certain level in terms of the source power so that you can kind of pick and choose between those vendors? Any color on that will be great. Thank you.

好吧，夠公平。因此，這只是對 EUV 的後續關注。我只是想知道，就雷射源供應商而言，您將如何降低自己的風險？看起來其中一個人已經領先了。我只是想知道，鑑於未來可能面臨如此多的挑戰，您如何降低自己的風險以及如何推動其他供應商在源功率方面達到一定的水平，以便您可以在這些供應商之間進行選擇？任何顏色都很好。謝謝。

Yes, absolutely. So, indeed, at this moment one of the vendors is ahead of the pack, as you know, and, as you also know, we are investing significantly into this relationship for them to succeed.

是的，絕對是。因此，正如您所知，目前其中一家供應商確實處於領先地位，而且，正如您所知，我們正在大力投資這一關係以期取得成功。

On the other hand, it is our responsibility to de-risk the situation. So, there are numbers of ways of de-risking. One is we are still working with Ushio and with Gigaphoton on their own business model. Clearly, one of them has a business model of insertion of EUV in due time. So, this is not a race of only one horse.

另一方面，我們有責任降低風險。因此，有很多方法可以降低風險。一是我們仍在與 Ushio 和 Gigaphoton 合作開發他們自己的商業模式。顯然，其中一家公司擁有適時引入 EUV 的商業模式。所以，這不是一場只有一匹馬的比賽。

The timing is not immediate, however it does help in the R&D-- sorry, it does help in the production-type environment, because production, as we said, is only a start in 2014, '15, but then in '16, '17, '18 is when the unit comes in. So, if you had a second player come in for production, it's a de-risking situation.

時間不是立即的，但它確實有助於研發 - 抱歉，它確實有助於生產類型的環境，因為正如我們所說，生產只是在 2014 年、2015 年才開始，但 2016 年、2017 年、2018 年才是單位投入使用的時候。因此，如果有第二位球員參與製作，這是一種降低風險的情況。

On the other hand, also, we are building, as you know, a knowledge of the sources and so, for us, it will be easier, also, for us to know what to do if we need to be even more involved into source development.

另一方面，正如您所知，我們也在累積有關原始程式碼的知識，因此，對於我們來說，如果我們需要更多地參與原始程式碼開發，我們也將更容易知道該做什麼。

Thank you. I appreciate it.

謝謝。我很感激。

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm afraid we've run out of time for this call. If you were unable to get through on the call and still have questions, feel free to contact the Investor Relations Department here at ASML. We're happy to answer your questions.

女士們、先生們，恐怕我們已經沒有時間再打電話了。如果您無法接通電話並且仍有疑問，請隨時聯絡 ASML 的投資者關係部。我們很樂意回答您的問題。

Now, operator, if we can -- if you can close the call for us, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

現在，接線員，如果您可以幫我們結束通話，我將非常感激。謝謝。

Of course, Mr. DeYoung. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the ASML 2012 second quarter results conference call. Thank you for participating. You may disconnect now.

當然，DeYoung 先生。謝謝。女士們、先生們，ASML 2012 年第二季業績電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。