聯華電子 (UMC) 2019 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to UMC's 2019 Fourth Quarter Earnings Conference Call.

歡迎大家參加聯華電子 2019 年第四季度收益電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet.

（操作員說明）供您參考，本次電話會議正在互聯網上進行現場直播。

Webcast replay will be available within an hour after the conference is finished.

網絡直播重播將在會議結束後一小時內提供。

Please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations, Investors, Events section.

請訪問我們的網站 www.umc.com，位於投資者關係、投資者、活動部分。

And now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC.

現在我想介紹聯華電子投資者關係主管Michael Lin先生。

And Mr. Lin, please begin.

林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to the UMC's Conference Call for the Fourth Quarter of 2019.

謝謝，歡迎參加聯華電子 2019 年第四季度的電話會議。

I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, the President of UMC; and Mr. Qi Dong Lui, the CFO of UMC.

聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生加入了我的行列；聯電CFO雷啟東先生。

In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the fourth quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's focus and the first quarter 2020 guidance.

稍後，我們將聽到我們的首席財務官介紹第四季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁關於聯華電子的重點和 2020 年第一季度指導的關鍵信息。

Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session.

一旦我們的總裁和首席財務官完成他們的發言，就會有一個問答環節。

UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors Financial section.

UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的“投資者財務”部分下獲得。

During this conference, we will make forward-looking statements based on the management's current expectations and beliefs.

在本次會議期間，我們將根據管理層當前的預期和信念做出前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond company's control.

這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。

For these risks, please refer to UMC's filing with the SEC in the U.S. and the ROC security authorities.

對於這些風險，請參閱聯電向美國 SEC 和中華民國安全機構提交的文件。

Now I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Qi Dong Liu, to discuss our fourth quarter 2019 financial results.

現在我想介紹聯電的首席財務官劉啟東先生來討論我們2019年第四季度的財務業績。

Thank you, Michael.

謝謝你，邁克爾。

I would like to go through the 4Q '19 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded from our website.

我想瀏覽一下 4Q '19 投資者會議演示材料，可以從我們的網站下載。

Starting on Page 3, the fourth quarter of 2019, consolidated revenue was TWD 41.85 billion, with a gross margin at 15.7%.

從 2019 年第四季度第 3 頁開始，綜合收入為 418.5 億新台幣，毛利率為 15.7%。

The net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 3.84 billion, and earnings per ordinary shares was TWD 0.33 on $1.

歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為 38.4 億新台幣，每股普通股收益為 1 美元的 0.33 新台幣。

Our loading utilization rate in Q4 of 2019 was 92%, slightly better than 91% in the previous quarter and also 88% in the same quarter of last year.

我們2019年第四季度的裝載利用率為92%，略好於上一季度的91%和去年同期的88%。

And revenue, TWD 41.8 billion was a record high for UMC.

而收入，418億新台幣，是聯電的歷史新高。

On Page 4, our financial income statement on a sequential basis, revenue TWD 41.8 billion growth by 10.9% quarter-over-quarter.

在第 4 頁，我們的財務損益表按順序計算，收入為 418 億新台幣，環比增長 10.9%。

And gross margin, as a result, also grew 8.3% sequentially to TWD 6.96 billion or 15.7% gross margin.

因此，毛利率也環比增長 8.3% 至 69.6 億新台幣或 15.7% 的毛利率。

And because the combination of our newly acquired U.S. -- Japan operations, so our operating expenses grew to TWD 6.1 billion, which lead to operating income of TWD 2.018 billion.

而且由於我們新收購的美國-日本業務的合併，所以我們的營業費用增長到了61億新台幣，從而帶來了20.18億新台幣的營業收入。

With better stock market performance as well as strengthened renminbi versus U.S. dollars, our nonoperating income was again of TWD 946 million.

隨著股市表現好轉以及人民幣兌美元走強，我們的營業外收入再次達到 9.46 億新台幣。

And the total net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 3.83 or an EPS of TWD 0.33.

歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤總額為 3.83 新台幣，每股收益為 0.33 新台幣。

So on Page 5, our year-over-year comparison.

所以在第 5 頁，我們的年度比較。

The full year revenue was TWD 148 billion, a small decline of 2% year-over-year, which mainly due to the weakness in the beginning of 2019.

全年收入為 1480 億新台幣，同比小幅下降 2%，主要是由於 2019 年初的疲軟。

Gross margin rate is around 14.4% or total gross margin of TWD 21.3 billion.

毛利率約為 14.4% 或總毛利率 213 億新台幣。

And operating expenses is under control and reduced to TWD 21.8 billion for the full year.

全年營運開支控制在218億新台幣。

And as a result, the total net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent for the full 2019 was TWD 9.7 billion or equivalent to an EPS of TWD 0.82.

因此，2019 年全年歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤總額為 97 億新台幣，或相當於每股收益 0.82 新台幣。

For balance sheet for the full year, our cash has accumulated to TWD 95.4 billion.

就全年資產負債表而言，我們的現金已累積至新台幣 954 億元。

And the total equity for the company is TWD 207 billion.

公司總股本為2070億新台幣。

So on Page 7, our ASP for the quarter was somewhat flattish compared to the previous quarter.

因此，在第 7 頁，我們本季度的 ASP 與上一季度相比有些持平。

On Page 8, our revenue breakdown.

在第 8 頁，我們的收入明細。

And because of the combination of the new acquisition in Japan, our total revenue from Japan grew to 9% of the total pie compared to 2% in the previous quarter, and Asia remained as big as 55%, our single largest market.

由於在日本的新收購，我們在日本的總收入從上一季度的 2% 增長到總蛋糕的 9%，而亞洲仍然是我們最大的單一市場的 55%。

And North America is around 30%.

北美約佔 30%。

And for the full year, Asia is about 57%, and North America is 32%, and Japan, Europe, about 5% to 6% each.

而全年，亞洲約為 57%，北美為 32%，日本、歐洲各約為 5% 至 6%。

And for IDM, again, because of the combination of Japan operation, in Q4, IDM percentage jumped to 13% of the pie and fabless remaining 87%.

而對於 IDM 來說，再次因為日本業務的結合，在第四季度，IDM 的百分比躍升至 13%，無晶圓廠剩餘 87%。

For the full year, the difference is much less.

對於全年來說，差異要小得多。

It's similar to the previous year, around 8% to 9% for IDM.

這與前一年相似，IDM 約為 8% 至 9%。

On Page 12, our segment breakdown.

在第 12 頁，我們的細分市場細分。

Still, we see similar distributions among communication, computer and consumers, with communication as the single largest segment, around 54%.

儘管如此，我們仍然看到通信、計算機和消費者之間的分佈相似，其中通信是最大的單一細分市場，約佔 54%。

And for the whole year, we will continue to see more communication contribution to 52% for the whole year, and consumer is around 26%.

而對於全年，我們將繼續看到更多的通信貢獻，全年達到 52%，消費者在 26% 左右。

On Page 14, our total revenue coming from 40-nanometer and below is around 32%, with -- 28-nanometer is around 10%.

在第 14 頁，我們來自 40 納米及以下的總收入約為 32%，其中 28 納米約為 10%。

And for the full year, we have minimum contribution from 14 and stable contribution from 28 and 40-nanometer, which in combine is around 34% for the full year of 2019.

全年，我們對 14 納米的貢獻最小，而 28 和 40 納米的貢獻穩定，2019 年全年的總和約為 34%。

On Page 16, our Q1 capacity here is factoring the annual maintenance already.

在第 16 頁，我們的第一季度產能已經考慮到年度維護。

But still, we see a somewhat flattish total capacity available in Q1 versus the previous quarter.

但是，我們仍然看到與上一季度相比，第一季度的可用總容量有些持平。

Now our full year CapEx for the 2020, right now, the budget is around TWD 1 billion -- USD 1 billion, and 85% will be 12-inch related.

現在我們 2020 年的全年資本支出，目前，預算約為 10 億新台幣 - 10 億美元，其中 85% 將與 12 英寸相關。

So the above is a summary of UMC results fourth quarter 2019.

以上是聯電2019年第四季度業績總結。

More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

報告中提供了更多詳細信息，該報告已發佈在我們的網站上。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Wang.

我現在將電話轉給聯電總裁王先生。

Thank you, Qi Dong.

謝謝你，啟東。

Good evening, everyone.

各位晚上好。

Here, I would like to update the fourth quarter operating result of UMC.

在這裡，我想更新聯電第四季度的經營業績。

During the fourth quarter, we started to account for the foundry operation at our recent acquired USJC, which is the Fab 12M in Japan.

在第四季度，我們開始計算我們最近收購的 USJC 的代工業務，即日本的 Fab 12M。

In spite of the currency headwinds encountered in the foreign exchange market, our foundry revenue increased 10.9% quarter-over-quarter to TWD 41.83 billion, leading to a foundry operating margin of 4.9%.

儘管外匯市場遇到貨幣逆風，但我們的代工收入環比增長 10.9% 至 418.3 億新台幣，導致代工營業利潤率為 4.9%。

Utilization rate increased to 92%, bringing wafer's shipment to TWD 2.04 million 8-inch equivalent wafers primarily driven by the communication and computing segments.

利用率提高至 92%，使晶圓出貨量達到 204 萬新台幣 8 英寸等效晶圓，主要由通信和計算領域推動。

For the year, our earnings per share increased to 41% year-over-year to TWD 0.82.

全年，我們的每股收益同比增長 41% 至 0.82 新台幣。

Our continued disciplined CapEx approach also enabled UMC to generate a total of TWD 37.1 billion in free cash flow, up 19% year-over-year.

我們持續嚴格的資本支出方法也使聯電創造了總計 371 億新台幣的自由現金流，同比增長 19%。

In terms of technology, we recently validated our 22-nanometer process on the USB 2.0 test vehicle, demonstrating the technology readiness of this design rule shrink from 28-nanometer.

在技術方面，我們最近在 USB 2.0 測試車輛上驗證了我們的 22 納米工藝，證明了該設計規則從 28 納米縮小到技術準備就緒。

UMC's 22-nanometer process features a 10% area reduction as a power to performance ratio and enhance RF capabilities compared to our existing 28-High-K/Metal Gate technology.

與我們現有的 28-High-K/Metal Gate 技術相比，UMC 的 22 納米工藝的功率性能比可減少 10% 的面積並增強射頻功能。

Looking to the first quarter of 2020 based on the customer forecast, the overall business outlook appears to remain consistent with the previous quarter, primarily due to a stable wafer demand across wireless communication and computer peripheral segments.

根據客戶預測，展望 2020 年第一季度，整體業務前景似乎與上一季度保持一致，這主要是由於無線通信和計算機外圍設備領域的晶圓需求穩定。

As we receive new product tape-out that will enter future production pipeline, we expect to benefit from 5G and IoT trends that will generate additional semiconductor demand, specifically in wireless device as well as power management applications.

隨著我們收到將進入未來生產線的新產品流片，我們預計將受益於 5G 和物聯網趨勢，這將產生額外的半導體需求，特別是在無線設備和電源管理應用中。

While our focus remains to maintain disciplined capital expenditure spending all the way into mid- to long-term customer and market demand, we have set up our 2020 CapEx budget of USD 1 billion.

雖然我們的重點仍然是保持嚴格的資本支出支出，一直到中長期客戶和市場需求，但我們已將 2020 年資本支出預算設定為 10 億美元。

UMC will continue to penetrate into new segments and expand our presence in the existing markets.

UMC 將繼續滲透到新的細分市場並擴大我們在現有市場的影響力。

Our core competence in process technology development and world-class foundry service will strengthen our position in delivering project and specialty manufacturing solutions.

我們在工藝技術開發和世界級鑄造服務方面的核心競爭力將加強我們在提供項目和專業製造解決方案方面的地位。

Now I will like to address the Wuhan coronavirus situation here.

現在我想在這裡談談武漢冠狀病毒的情況。

Regarding the novel coronavirus outbreak, we promptly set up a cross-functional prevention team prior to Chinese New Year.

針對新型冠狀病毒的爆發，我們在春節前及時成立了跨職能的預防小組。

That is specifically tasked with managing the potential risk of the coronavirus at UMC.

這是專門負責在聯華電子管理冠狀病毒的潛在風險。

Today, all of our operations remain normal.

今天，我們所有的業務都保持正常。

And we will continue to actively monitor the rate, both internally and externally, so we may better timely respond to any changes in this fluid situation.

我們將繼續在內部和外部積極監控匯率，以便我們可以更好地及時應對這種流動情況的任何變化。

Now let's move on to the first quarter 2020 guidance.

現在讓我們繼續討論 2020 年第一季度的指導。

Our wafer shipment will remain flat.

我們的晶圓出貨量將保持平穩。

ASP in U.S. dollar is expected to remain flat.

預計美元平均售價將保持平穩。

Gross profit margin will be in the mid-teens percentage range.

毛利率將在十幾歲的百分比範圍內。

Capacity utilization rate will be around to 90%.

產能利用率將達到90%左右。

Our 2020 CapEx budget will be USD 1 billion.

我們 2020 年的資本支出預算為 10 億美元。

That concludes my comments.

我的評論到此結束。

Thank you all for your attention.

謝謝大家的關注。

Now we are ready for questions.

現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) And the first question is coming from Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams。

Yes.

是的。

I wanted to ask the first question.

我想問第一個問題。

Just if you could give a look ahead to a view for 2020.

如果您可以展望一下 2020 年的前景。

Maybe an outlook for foundry sector, whether it's for the whole industry or stripping out the advanced technology you don't access.

也許是鑄造行業的前景，無論是整個行業還是剝離您無法獲得的先進技術。

And then your view relative to that, how you expect UMC to perform?

然後您對此的看法是，您期望聯電的表現如何？

And the second part, if you've discerned any changes from the virus at this stage, whether from the customer demand side or some of the activity from that at this stage?

第二部分，如果您在現階段發現病毒的任何變化，無論是從客戶需求方面還是現階段的一些活動？

Sure.

當然。

Randy, thank you for the question.

蘭迪，謝謝你的問題。

The first question is about the -- our view on the foundry outlook in 2020.

第一個問題是關於我們對 2020 年鑄造前景的看法。

We expect semi to grow in mid-single digits.

我們預計 semi 將以中個位數增長。

And foundry segment to grow in high single-digit percentage range.

代工部門將在高個位數百分比範圍內增長。

And that's actually including the advanced now as well, okay?

這實際上也包括現在的高級，好嗎？

That's not exclude event, that's not focused on addressable only.

這不排除事件，不只關注可尋址事件。

Now if we look at the UMC growth in 2020, with USJC, our newly acquired fab, we will grow higher than the foundry industry.

現在如果我們看看聯電在 2020 年的增長，我們新收購的晶圓廠 USJC 的增長將高於代工行業。

And without the USJC, we will grow in line or slightly better than the foundry industry.

如果沒有 USJC，我們的增長將與鑄造行業保持一致或略好。

So that's kind of where we project at this point for 2020.

所以這就是我們在 2020 年的預測。

As far as for the question of the coronavirus impact, at this point, we are closely communicating with our customers to monitor the development of the situation.

至于冠狀病毒影響的問題，目前，我們正在與客戶密切溝通，以監測情況的發展。

At this moment, there is no change in our Q1 demand, should the outbreak deteriorates into a situation, that may cause supply chain issues, and which we are looking at it closely in China, there could be some impact with the entire semiconductor industry.

目前，我們第一季度的需求沒有變化，如果疫情惡化成可能導致供應鏈問題的情況，我們正在中國密切關注，可能會對整個半導體行業產生一些影響。

And at this point, there's no chance yet.

而在這一點上，還沒有機會。

Okay.

好的。

If I could ask you on the 28-nanometer, where last quarter, I think you saw some light at the end of the tunnel or some improvement.

如果我可以問你關於 28 納米的問題，上個季度在哪裡，我想你看到了隧道盡頭的一些曙光或一些改進。

Could you maybe give an update on the applications you're qualifying and then timing to bring that in?

您能否提供有關您符合條件的應用程序的最新信息，然後將其引入的時間？

And maybe in that -- like, how you could see 28 ramp up as a percent of revenue through the year or toward year-end?

也許在那個 - 比如，你怎麼能看到 28 在全年或接近年底時佔收入的百分比增加？

And I also had a question just as you ramp back 28, how that would impact the gross margin where you get the benefit of filling the fab, but I guess relative to corporate average, how you see it whether it will be accretive to corporate gross margin or still dilutive to the margin?

當你回到 28 歲時，我還有一個問題，這將如何影響你從填充晶圓廠中獲益的毛利率，但我想相對於企業平均水平，你如何看待它是否會增加企業毛利率保證金還是稀釋保證金？

Sure.

當然。

Well, the -- we've been reporting many quarters about the 28 contribution to us.

好吧，我們已經報告了很多季度關於 28 對我們的貢獻。

And we've been talking about this fragment in the market and we're still at this recovery mode.

我們一直在談論市場上的這個片段，我們仍處於這種複蘇模式。

So we expect to see the 28-nanometer contribution in Q1, '20 will still be under the recovery mode, but we are confident in improving our 28 utilization in second half '20.

因此，我們預計 20 年第一季度會看到 28 納米的貢獻，20 年仍將處於恢復模式，但我們有信心在 20 年下半年提高我們的 28 利用率。

We -- what we foresee is our -- found our key 28 project engagement will start to enter volume production in third quarter '20, mainly driven by the wireless communication ICs.

我們——我們預見到的是——發現我們的 28 個關鍵項目將在 20 年第三季度開始量產，主要由無線通信 IC 驅動。

And the -- as far for the gross margin...

而且——就毛利率而言……

Yes.

是的。

For the gross margin, I think any recovery in the currently underutilized 28-nanometer capacity will be incremental positive to our overall corporate gross margin.

對於毛利率，我認為目前未充分利用的 28 納米產能的任何恢復都將對我們的整體公司毛利率產生積極影響。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

And then last question, just on the CapEx of $1 billion, with the 85% 12-inch and then the rest 8-inch, could you maybe lay out in capacity additions where like the fabs are -- where you expect to increase the actual wafer capacity?

最後一個問題，就 10 億美元的資本支出而言，85% 為 12 英寸，其餘為 8 英寸，您是否可以在像晶圓廠一樣的地方增加產能——您希望增加實際晶圓容量？

Sure.

當然。

The way that you break it down first is between 8-inch and 12-inch.

您首先分解它的方式是在 8 英寸和 12 英寸之間。

But the other way we look at it is more we split into 3 different categories.

但我們看待它的另一種方式是我們分為 3 個不同的類別。

1/3 of the CapEx will for the noncapacity related.

1/3 的資本支出將用於非產能相關。

For example, our general budget.

例如，我們的一般預算。

So the 1/3 will count for the increase of capacity, major for 28 nanometers in our 12X, the Xiamen facility.

因此，1/3 將計入產能的增加，主要是我們 12X 廈門工廠的 28 納米。

And the other 1/3 is truly upgrade throughout our overall capacity pool.

另外 1/3 是在整個容量池中真正升級。

So the overall capacity growth wave will be low single digits year-over-year in 2021.

因此，到 2021 年，整體產能增長浪潮將同比低個位數。

While we have been -- the budget for 2020 is more of a capacity plan for the 2021.

雖然我們一直在 - 2020 年的預算更多的是 2021 年的容量計劃。

Okay.

好的。

And on the 28, if you could give an update how much capacity you have?

在 28 日，如果你能提供一個更新，你有多少容量？

I think maybe you last update it was, if I were right, 39,500 and 5,000 in Xiamen.

我想也許你最後一次更新是，如果我是對的，廈門有 39,500 和 5,000。

But if you can maybe give an update how much you have for 28?

但是，如果您可以提供一個更新，您有多少 28？

And how much you may expand 28?

你可以擴展多少 28？

Well, the 28 monthly capacity will remain unchanged at the 45,000 to 46,000 a month in 2020.

那麼，2020年的28個月產能將保持在每月45,000到46,000不變。

And what we budgeted for the 2020 CapEx is mainly for the increase of 2021.

而我們對 2020 年資本支出的預算主要用於 2021 年的增長。

Yes.

是的。

So just -- I'll add into that.

所以只是 - 我會補充一點。

The Xiamen capacity likely to reach full of 25,000 wafer per month by mid of 2021.

到 2021 年年中，廈門的產能可能達到每月 25,000 片。

The next question is coming from Charlie Chan of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan。

Happy New Year.

新年快樂。

And first of all, I want to follow up the question regarding the 28-nanometer demand.

首先，我想跟進有關 28 納米需求的問題。

So you said that demand comes on the wireless semiconductor.

所以你說需求來自無線半導體。

So my question is that, what kind of wireless?

所以我的問題是，什麼樣的無線？

Because most of the smartphone AP already migrated to 12-nanometer or below.

因為大部分智能手機AP已經遷移到12納米以下。

And secondly, do you classify the AMOLED driver IC and image signal processor as the water-resistant conductor for 28-nanometer?

其次，您是否將AMOLED驅動IC和圖像信號處理器歸類為28納米的防水導體？

Sure.

當然。

First, Happy New Year to you, too.

首先，也祝你新年快樂。

The -- yes, the answer is yes.

——是的，答案是肯定的。

We are considering the Wi-Fi devices and display drivers ICs and the -- some sensor device, they are considered as the application for the 28 nanometers.

我們正在考慮 Wi-Fi 設備和顯示驅動器 IC 以及一些傳感器設備，它們被視為 28 納米的應用。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks for clarification.

感謝您的澄清。

And second thing is that we are being -- seems that lots of [tolling] edge are in tightness and some order overflow from those bigger players.

第二件事是我們正在 - 似乎很多 [收費] 邊緣都處於緊張狀態，並且一些更大的玩家的訂單溢出。

So can you please comment, which process nodes you see are in tightness or even in a shortage?

那麼您能否評論一下，您看到哪些流程節點處於緊張甚至短缺狀態？

And second thing is that do you see any possibility that you have to select customers even hike the price for -- in the coming quarters.

第二件事是，您是否看到在未來幾個季度您必須選擇客戶甚至提高價格的可能性。

Okay.

好的。

Well, that's more a question for across all nodes.

好吧，這對於所有節點來說都是一個問題。

So let me see if I can break it down this way.

所以讓我看看我是否可以這樣分解它。

The -- we see tightness of the -- capacity tightness across the 8-inch advanced nodes, okay, which is anything more than the 0.18 micron.

我們看到 8 英寸高級節點的容量緊密度，好吧，這比 0.18 微米大。

And we see the 12-inch, all the legacy nodes, we found that 90-nanometer all the way to 55 nanometers, okay?

我們看到 12 英寸，所有傳統節點，我們發現 90 納米一直到 55 納米，好嗎？

And the 40 -- for the 40 nanometers, and we see some decline in the Q4 '19 and largely due to the weakened demand.

而 40 - 用於 40 納米，我們看到 19 年第四季度有所下降，主要是由於需求疲軟。

But in the long-term view, we are continue cautiously monitoring the [no] migration and about this particular -- 40 nanometers.

但從長遠來看，我們將繼續謹慎地監測 [no] 遷移以及關於這個特定的 - 40 納米。

So that's kind of how we look at the market right now.

這就是我們現在看待市場的方式。

Okay.

好的。

So do you expect that timing will continue?

那麼你認為時間會繼續嗎？

And you have to kind of be more firm on your pricing or even doing some price hike at headquarters?

而且你必須對你的定價更加堅定，甚至在總部進行一些提價？

Well, I mean, we do think this tightness will continue, in particular on those nodes I highlighted.

好吧，我的意思是，我們確實認為這種緊張會繼續下去，特別是在我強調的那些節點上。

And the -- in terms of pricing we still have to align with the market price.

而且 - 在定價方面，我們仍然必須與市場價格保持一致。

So -- and we'll continue working closer with our customers based on the market price trend.

所以——我們將根據市場價格趨勢繼續與客戶密切合作。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

And lastly, maybe some update on the lawsuit with Micron.

最後，也許是美光訴訟的一些更新。

Maybe Qi Dong or Jason can help us because this has been a very big overhang to the stock and it has been for more than a year, right?

也許 Qi Dong 或 Jason 可以幫助我們，因為這對股票來說是一個非常大的懸垂，並且已經持續了一年多，對吧？

So we really hope to kind of get some clarification regarding the status and the timing, potential impact to company's finance and operation.

因此，我們真的希望能夠就現狀和時間以及對公司財務和運營的潛在影響做出一些澄清。

You'll be very helpful for (inaudible).

您將對（聽不清）非常有幫助。

Yes.

是的。

We understand that.

我們明白這一點。

Yes.

是的。

Right now, the litigation is still ongoing.

目前，訴訟仍在進行中。

Given the case is under the judicial process, we do not have any update information -- updated information.

鑑於此案正在司法程序中，我們沒有任何更新信息——更新信息。

So if there is any significant development, we will disclose them accordingly.

因此，如果有任何重大進展，我們將相應地披露。

So there's truly not much of an update right now.

所以現在真的沒有太多的更新。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

And just to clarify, in your opening remarks -- I'm sorry, the answer to Randy's question, you said that your 2020 revenue is going to outgrow the foundry industry without including the Japan fab.

只是為了澄清一下，在你的開場白中——對不起，蘭迪的問題的答案，你說你 2020 年的收入將超過鑄造行業，不包括日本晶圓廠。

Is that the right takeaway?

這是正確的外賣嗎？

Yes.

是的。

I said, with all the Japan fab, we will grow in line or slightly better than the foundry industry.

我說，有了所有的日本晶圓廠，我們的成長會比代工行業同步或略好。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

So what is the reason that you're outgrowing or gaining market share?

那麼，您的增長速度超過或獲得市場份額的原因是什麼？

Because I can understand TSMC can get it because they continue investing kind of advanced mills, right?

因為我可以理解台積電可以得到它，因為他們繼續投資先進的工廠，對吧？

But from -- for you guys, you're also competing with the Chinese vendors, but Chinese vendor seems to be very confident.

但是從——對於你們來說，你們也在與中國廠商競爭，但中國廠商似乎非常有信心。

They are well positioned for the Chinese customers' growth, right?

他們為中國客戶的增長做好了準備，對吧？

So can you give us some elaboration why you can outgrow?

那麼，您能否詳細說明一下為什麼您可以長大？

Sure.

當然。

Well, first of all, we expect to capture high growth from the wireless communication, including early 5G rollout opportunities in both logic and specialty technologies.

嗯，首先，我們希望從無線通信中獲得高增長，包括邏輯和專業技術的早期 5G 部署機會。

And obviously, the change, we believe, is mainly driven by the demand pickup.

顯然，我們認為，這種變化主要是由需求回升推動的。

That's one reason.

這是原因之一。

And second is, of course, market share again in 2020.

其次，當然是 2020 年的市場份額。

Okay.

好的。

So in which segment you're gaining share?

那麼，您在哪個細分市場中獲得了份額？

The -- well, I mean, let me do it -- let me go it this way.

- 好吧，我的意思是，讓我這樣做 - 讓我這樣做。

The -- if we look at the market trend, and we already start observing some of the evidence by, one, increasing power and RF application such as a transceiver and switch that in a 5G phone and a base station, that's one area.

- 如果我們看看市場趨勢，我們已經開始觀察一些證據，一是增加功率和射頻應用，例如收發器，並在 5G 手機和基站中切換，這是一個領域。

Second is increase of OLED adoption in a smartphone.

其次是智能手機中 OLED 採用率的增加。

Okay.

好的。

And that's second, which will fuel the OLED driver IC.

這是第二個，它將為 OLED 驅動器 IC 提供燃料。

We also touched that earlier too, the driver.

我們之前也接觸過，驅動程序。

And the third is the multi-camera modules, that buying the smartphone that will drive the sensor and the controller wafer demand.

第三個是多攝像頭模塊，購買智能手機將推動傳感器和控制器晶圓的需求。

And also, we look -- we saw the upgrades in the Wi-Fi standard for the faster connectivities requirement and we will get benefits on that as well.

此外，我們還看到了 Wi-Fi 標準的升級，以實現更快的連接要求，我們也會從中受益。

So this is probably I can think of 4 different areas.

所以這大概是我能想到的4個不同的領域。

Yes.

是的。

For that outsourcing of AMOLED driver IC and the ISP from Korea customer, do you think there's something structural?

對於韓國客戶的AMOLED驅動IC和ISP外包，你認為有什麼結構性的嗎？

I mean maybe they have some internal fab shortage this year.

我的意思是他們今年可能有一些內部晶圓廠短缺。

But long term, how solid and how sustainable do you think this outsourcing is going to be?

但從長遠來看，您認為這種外包的可靠性和可持續性如何？

Well, we usually don't comment on any specific customer.

好吧，我們通常不對任何特定客戶發表評論。

And so it's -- I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment that.

所以——我認為我不適合發表評論。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Sure.

當然。

Yes.

是的。

Just if you can give us some perspective from -- kind of high-level strategy perspective, right?

只是如果你能從高層次的戰略角度給我們一些觀點，對吧？

Why this could be structural?

為什麼這可能是結構性的？

I think that should be helpful.

我認為這應該會有所幫助。

I mean not maybe for some specific customers but just for the sector or industry overall.

我的意思可能不是針對某些特定客戶，而是針對整個行業或行業。

Is that possible?

那可能嗎？

I think the changing in the market space does fuel the increase of the wafer semiconductor demand, right?

我認為市場空間的變化確實推動了晶圓半導體需求的增長，對吧？

So that's (inaudible).

這就是（聽不清）。

So this -- I will say that's the opportunity that we are participating right now.

所以這個——我會說這是我們現在參與的機會。

Yes.

是的。

And the next question is coming from Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

First of all, could you talk a little bit about how you expect depreciation to shape up in 2020?

首先，您能否談談您預計 2020 年貶值將如何形成？

And with Fujitsu fab consolidation and higher CapEx compared to last year, what is our expectation of depreciation going into 2021?

與去年相比，富士通工廠整合和更高的資本支出，我們對 2021 年折舊的預期是多少？

I think previously, we had expected, I think, 2021, probably would be the year where we will see a meaningful drop off in depreciation expenses.

我認為，之前我們曾預計，2021 年可能是我們將看到折舊費用顯著下降的一年。

Is there a change to that, given the increase in CapEx and the expansion on 28-nanometer?

考慮到資本支出的增加和 28 納米的擴展，這有什麼變化嗎？

That's my first question, and I had a couple of follow ups too, sir.

這是我的第一個問題，我也有幾個跟進，先生。

So for depreciation, in 2019, it declined about 5% to 6%, as we expected.

因此，折舊方面，2019 年下降了約 5% 至 6%，正如我們預期的那樣。

And because of the combination of Japanese fab, our 2020 expectation in terms of depreciation decline is around low single digit.

並且由於日本晶圓廠的結合，我們對 2020 年折舊下降的預期在低個位數左右。

And of course, yes, as we mentioned earlier, the peak of the 28 spending was about 4 years ago.

當然，是的，正如我們之前提到的，28 人支出的峰值大約在 4 年前。

So 2021 or 2022, we will start to see even much bigger rate of decline in terms of our depreciation expenses.

因此，到 2021 年或 2022 年，我們將開始看到我們的折舊費用下降幅度更大。

Could we be a little bit more specific, given we are spending a little bit more CapEx?

鑑於我們花費了更多的資本支出，我們能否更具體一點？

Are we thinking about like 15%, 20% decline in depreciation in '21 or it's going to be more gradual than that?

我們是在考慮 21 年貶值 15%、20% 還是會比這更緩慢？

I think it probably would be a little bit more gradual than that.

我認為它可能會比這更漸進一點。

But still, our spending for 2018 and 2019, both are around 0.7 billion only.

但是，我們 2018 年和 2019 年的支出仍然只有 7 億左右。

So still, I think the mega trend won't change much, but the magnitude for 2021 probably will be less than what you mentioned.

所以，我認為大趨勢不會有太大變化，但 2021 年的規模可能會比你提到的要小。

Got it.

知道了。

Also, given the roughly 10% accretion on revenue side from the Fujitsu quotation, could you also comment about what is the margin impact from consolidating this fab?

此外，鑑於富士通報價帶來的收入增長約 10%，您能否評論一下整合這家工廠對利潤率的影響？

Is it additive, in fact, to gross margin or is it similar to corporate average?

事實上，它是對毛利率的累加還是類似於公司平均水平？

So for the Q4, the first quarter, they are slightly above breakeven.

因此，對於第四季度，第一季度，它們略高於盈虧平衡點。

And as we mentioned earlier, we are driving the synergy, and it may take up to 2 to 3 quarters.

正如我們之前提到的，我們正在推動協同效應，這可能需要長達 2 到 3 個季度。

So we do expect the contribution to improve over time.

因此，我們確實希望隨著時間的推移，貢獻會有所改善。

And that's the current situation.

這就是目前的情況。

They are in black in Q4 already.

他們在第四季度已經是黑色的了。

And we expect they will continue to be profitable in Q1 of this year.

我們預計他們將在今年第一季度繼續盈利。

Okay.

好的。

And last question from me.

我的最後一個問題。

Could you talk a little bit about how the current situation on 8-inch utilization demand capacity and pricing?

能否請您談談目前 8 英寸利用率需求產能和定價情況如何？

And if the coronavirus situation deteriorates and the current weakness that you're seeing in kind of IC demand persist, if there is a lower expectation on 5G demand itself, does this affect your 8-inch utilization or demand?

如果冠狀病毒情況惡化並且您在 IC 需求中看到的當前疲軟持續存在，如果對 5G 需求本身的預期較低，這是否會影響您的 8 英寸利用率或需求？

Or 8-inch, you would say, is relatively less impacted?

還是說 8 英寸受到的影響相對較小？

Well, our Q4 '19, the 8-inch is at a low 90% utilization rate.

好吧，我們的 19 年第四季度，8 英寸的利用率很低，只有 90%。

And in Q1 '20, our utilization will be in mid-90 range.

在 20 年第一季度，我們的利用率將在 90 年左右。

We are expecting to see higher 8-inch utilization rate after the Q1 '20, so we remain confident about this outlook of the 8-inch.

我們預計 20 年第一季度之後 8 英寸的利用率會更高，因此我們對 8 英寸的前景仍然充滿信心。

And the -- in terms of the virus outbreak, as we reported earlier, based on the communication with our customers, at this point, there's no change in Q1 yet.

而且——就病毒爆發而言，正如我們之前報導的那樣，根據與客戶的溝通，目前第一季度還沒有變化。

And the next one is coming from the Szeho Ng of China Renaissance Securities.

下一位來自華興證券的吳思豪。

With the company now turning a lot more cash generative, I'm wondering whether the company will continue to pay out special dividend or to raise the payout ratio over 100%.

隨著公司現在產生更多現金，我想知道公司是否會繼續派發特別股息或將派息率提高到 100% 以上。

So our last year pay ratio was 100% already, so it's probably difficult to get higher than that.

所以我們去年的工資率已經是 100%，所以可能很難再高了。

For this coming year, of course, we will continue with our high-dividend payout policy, and we will propose that to our Board in due course.

當然，在接下來的一年裡，我們將繼續執行我們的高股息派息政策，我們將在適當的時候向我們的董事會提出這一建議。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

And the other question, again, on the Japanese fab, I believe it is still not fully loaded, right?

另一個問題，再次，關於日本晶圓廠，我相信它還沒有滿負荷，對吧？

Would the company consider to move more business from Taiwan to Japan or how easy would that be?

該公司是否會考慮將更多業務從台灣轉移到日本，或者這有多容易？

Well, that's part of our synergy plans.

嗯，這是我們協同計劃的一部分。

In addition to streamline the material procurement and fab productivity, hence then we also try to bridge in product from the [Taiwan fab] to the Japan fab.

除了簡化材料採購和晶圓廠生產力外，我們還嘗試將產品從[台灣晶圓廠]到日本晶圓廠。

So that is part of our activities.

所以這是我們活動的一部分。

Yes.

是的。

And the customers are actually quite receptive to that arrangement, right?

客戶實際上很接受這種安排，對吧？

To move from the Taiwan fab to Japan fab?

從台灣晶圓廠搬到日本晶圓廠？

Well, yes.

嗯，是。

I mean yes, we are aligned with our customers for those activities.

我的意思是，是的，我們在這些活動中與客戶保持一致。

Yes.

是的。

And the next question is coming from Zheng Lu of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的鄭路。

This is Bruce.

這是布魯斯。

So I need to clarify one thing that 28-nanometer profitability was similar to corporate average even with full capacity, is that right?

所以我需要澄清一件事，即使滿負荷生產，28 納米的盈利能力也與企業平均水平相似，對嗎？

No.

不。

That's not the way we look at this.

這不是我們看待這個問題的方式。

I mean any recovery in the 28-nanometer capacity utilization, which we expect to see that starting from mid of this year will be incrementally positive to our current corporate average profitability.

我的意思是 28 納米產能利用率的任何復蘇，我們預計從今年年中開始，這將對我們目前的企業平均盈利能力產生積極影響。

Okay.

好的。

But that will be still around, like, 20%, 30% range.

但這仍將保持在 20%、30% 的範圍內。

Is that right?

那正確嗎？

No.

不。

I didn't say that.

我沒這麼說。

I mean it's quite complicated, even for the same 28-nanometer technology, different customers will have different profit margins, not to mention the different fabs will have also very different profit structures.

我的意思是相當複雜，即使是同樣的 28 納米技術，不同的客戶會有不同的利潤率，更何況不同的晶圓廠也會有非常不同的利潤結構。

Okay.

好的。

So my question is that we -- I'm actually very surprised to see the 28-nanometer capacity expansion.

所以我的問題是，我們——實際上我對 28 納米的產能擴張感到非常驚訝。

If you used USD 1 billion CapEx, 70%, 80% for 20 other there.

如果您使用 10 億美元的資本支出，則 70%、80% 用於其他 20 個。

So for 28, your 28-nanometer capacity might increase by 20%, 30% in 2021.

所以對於 28，你的 28 納米容量可能會增加 20%，到 2021 年會增加 30%。

But TSMC, the biggest 28-nanometer capacity provider, suggests the industry is oversupplied.

但最大的 28 納米產能供應商台積電錶示，該行業供過於求。

And do you expand this incremental capacity for your 28 will be margin accretive, ROE accretive?

您是否會為您的 28 人擴大這種增量容量以增加利潤率、增加 ROE？

If you put whole actions in one picture, yes, because our current Xiamen factory will be the main area for 28-nanometer expansion.

如果你把整個動作放在一張照片上，是的，因為我們目前的廈門工廠將是 28 納米擴展的主要區域。

And right now, Xiamen factory is only about 70% equipped.

而目前，廈門工廠的裝備只有70%左右。

And the remaining 30%, 35%, once we reach the full capacity, the whole earning -- profitability structure will be a lot more ideal and will be also much easier to reach a breakeven positions with the fully equipped 25,000 wafer per month set, compared to their current status.

而剩下的30%，35%，一旦我們達到滿負荷，整個盈利——盈利結構會更理想，也更容易達到盈虧平衡，配備齊全的每月25,000片晶圓，與他們目前的狀態相比。

Yes.

是的。

But my question is that, by the end of 2020, assuming you are increasing your capacity for 28, that's based on that you have the full capacity for 28 by the end of 2020, right?

但我的問題是，到 2020 年底，假設您要增加 28 人的容量，那是基於到 2020 年底您擁有 28 人的全部容量，對嗎？

So you will have a better profitability by then.

所以到那時你會有更好的盈利能力。

And with the initial incremental capacity, will that be a margin and ROE accretive?

有了初始增量容量，這會增加利潤率和 ROE 嗎？

They won't be equivalent to our current corporate average, but they will be much better than its current single fab profitability.

它們不會等同於我們當前的企業平均水平，但它們將比其當前的單一晶圓廠盈利能力要好得多。

So we will see a pretty significant profitability improvement because of the economy of scale benefit for that one particular fact.

因此，由於這一特定事實的規模經濟優勢，我們將看到相當顯著的盈利能力提高。

I see.

我懂了。

What is the revenue concentration for your 28-nanometer to a single customer or as a single end customers?

您的 28 納米對單個客戶或單個最終客戶的收入集中度是多少？

Do you see the high revenue concentration on that?

你看到高收入集中在這上面嗎？

Because we are trying to evaluate a risk for that.

因為我們正在嘗試評估風險。

Yes.

是的。

Let me answer you in a different way, first.

讓我先換個方式回答你。

Our top 10 customer are around 55% to 60%, as always.

一如既往，我們的前 10 名客戶佔 55% 到 60% 左右。

And top 2, top 3 customers, sometimes, it's around 10%.

前 2 名，前 3 名客戶，有時大約是 10%。

And for 28 nanometer, we are now at more than a dozen of customers.

而對於 28 納米，我們現在有十幾個客戶。

So the diversity may not be specified the whole company but also are quite diversified.

因此，多樣性可能不是整個公司都指定的，但也是相當多樣化的。

So I don't have 28-nanometer customer list for you right now.

所以我現在沒有 28 納米的客戶名單給你。

But the concentration won't be too much higher than our corporate average.

但集中度不會比我們公司的平均水平高太多。

I see.

我懂了。

Understand.

理解。

Last question is that, the management guided by -- foundry industry growth as high single digit.

最後一個問題是，管理層的引導——代工行業增長為高個位數。

And this is much lower than what -- since you guided for the foundry industry.

這比你指導的鑄造行業要低得多。

Can I know the differences?

我能知道它們的區別嗎？

Well, we all have a different view and look at this the market outlook.

那麼，大家都有不同的看法，看看這個市場前景。

So it's -- our intelligence is telling us, the outlook for 2020 will be somewhere at the high single digits.

所以它 - 我們的情報告訴我們，2020 年的前景將處於高個位數。

So that's why we do our outlook.

所以這就是為什麼我們做我們的展望。

Yes.

是的。

But the gap is quite big.

但是差距還是蠻大的。

I can't comment.

我無法評論。

I don't know how they calculate it.

我不知道他們是怎麼計算的。

Yes.

是的。

We're trying to speak for ourselves.

我們試圖為自己說話。

Okay.

好的。

Understand that because we need to -- I just tried to know the differences, though.

理解這一點，因為我們需要-- 不過，我只是想了解其中的差異。

Of course, yes, because we don't have the detail of how they calculate it, so it's compared in the...

當然，是的，因為我們沒有他們如何計算的細節，所以在...中進行了比較

I see.

我懂了。

But if they are having 50% market share for the whole market, and they are guiding for 20% for their revenue growth, if you are guiding for, like, high single digit for the industry growth, which means that rest of the foundry will be, like, low single-digit decline.

但是，如果他們在整個市場上佔有 50% 的市場份額，他們的收入增長為 20%，如果你為行業增長提供高個位數的指導，這意味著其餘的代工廠將是，像，低個位數的下降。

You can have two sides of data and making one story.

您可以擁有兩個方面的數據並製作一個故事。

So I think it will be difficult for us to answer that.

所以我認為我們很難回答這個問題。

But when you calculate your stuff, you already factor in adjacency will grow by 20%, as they guided, right?

但是當你計算你的東西時，你已經考慮到鄰接將增長 20%，正如他們所指導的，對吧？

We use our market intelligence to come up with this high single-digit number.

我們利用我們的市場情報來得出這個高個位數的數字。

(Operator Instructions) And the next question is coming from Sebastian Hou of CLSA.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自里昂證券的 Sebastian Hou。

The first question is on, well, what you don't just said about the improvement possibility in your Xiamen fab, so would that change the subsidy from the government you're receiving?

第一個問題是，你剛才不是說你廈門工廠的改進可能性，那麼這會改變你從政府那裡得到的補貼嗎？

No.

不。

The subsidies we have already received in cash in our pocket.

我們口袋裡已經收到了現金補貼。

But accounting-wise, we have to recognize that along with our depreciation timetable, which is around 6 years, so we already recognize that for more than 2 or 3 years.

但在會計方面，我們必須認識到這一點以及我們大約 6 年的折舊時間表，所以我們已經認識到這一點超過 2 或 3 年。

So the remaining 3 to 4 years is intact.

所以剩下的3到4年是完好無損的。

Okay.

好的。

So that's still coming through the operating -- the other incomes in operating line?

所以這仍然來自運營——運營線上的其他收入？

Yes.

是的。

It's financial...

是金融...

So basically, it's irrelevant to the actual profitability of your Xiamen fab right now.

所以基本上，這與你廈門工廠現在的實際盈利能力無關。

Yes.

是的。

The task might be different, but the subsidies-wise is -- the ballpark figure is about the same.

任務可能有所不同，但補貼方面是——大致數字大致相同。

Okay.

好的。

But net-net, it's still a positive to the company profit?

但淨淨值，對公司利潤還是有好處的嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Sure.

當然。

Okay.

好的。

Got it.

知道了。

And also in the prepared remarks, the Co-President mentioned that your – the company is receiving new product tape-outs to enter future production pipeline.

並且在準備好的講話中，聯合總裁提到您的公司正在接收新產品流片以進入未來的生產管道。

Can you elaborate more about what type of the tape-out you're receiving and that make you excited?

您能否詳細說明您收到的流片類型以及讓您興奮的內容？

Well, the outlook of the table is across a difference.

好吧，桌子的前景是不同的。

There is nodes for the -- our 28-nanometer project engagement, we kind of talked about that earlier, mainly driven by the wireless communication ICs, including Wi-Fi, display drivers and others.

有節點——我們的 28 納米項目參與，我們之前談到過，主要由無線通信 IC 驅動，包括 Wi-Fi、顯示驅動程序等。

For the 8 inch, and we also touched that talking about the RF trans-switch and the transceiver and those areas, so there are 4 different various nodes.

對於 8 英寸，我們也談到了 RF 轉接開關和收發器等領域，因此有 4 個不同的各種節點。

And -- but mainly, I will say, if you look at this, in general, is really a lot of this associated with the 5G rollout.

而且 - 但主要是，我會說，如果你看一下，總的來說，這確實與 5G 的推出有關。

And we see the 5G rollout does help in the overall semiconductor demand increase.

我們看到 5G 的推出確實有助於整體半導體需求的增長。

So we see quite a bit of opportunity in there.

所以我們在那裡看到了很多機會。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Got it.

知道了。

And in the -- when you mentioned about the 4 areas that you're seeing growth to drive likely above industry average growth earlier, and one of that is 5G smartphone and base station.

在 - 當你提到你看到增長可能高於行業平均增長的 4 個領域時，其中之一是 5G 智能手機和基站。

So can you give us more details about what type of ICs that you are supplying into 5G smartphones and base stations?

那麼，您能否詳細介紹一下您為 5G 智能手機和基站提供的 IC 類型？

Yes.

是的。

The -- under the 5G infrastructure, such like the sub-6G, the RF SOI, the RF switch was associated with that.

- 在 5G 基礎設施下，例如 sub-6G、RF SOI、RF 開關與此相關聯。

Power management also associated with that, and that's for the 8-inch.

電源管理也與此相關，那就是 8 英寸。

The -- some of the display requirement actually for the 5G smartphone, the AMOLED and that's the display driver that's related to 5G as well.

5G 智能手機 AMOLED 的一些顯示要求實際上是與 5G 相關的顯示驅動程序。

And the -- and that's where the area we see in many of the opportunities.

而且 - 這就是我們在許多機會中看到的領域。

Okay.

好的。

Got it.

知道了。

And I have another question is about the -- your plan on the Fujitsu fab that you just acquired.

我還有一個問題是關於你剛剛收購的富士通工廠的計劃。

I understand that you don't mention about it, it's already above breakeven now and probably will improve.

我知道你沒有提到它，它現在已經在盈虧平衡之上，並且可能會有所改善。

But as you evaluate that, what -- how long does -- first is, how long does it take for that fab to reach the corporate average utilizing rate?

但是，當您對此進行評估時，首先需要多長時間，該晶圓廠需要多長時間才能達到公司的平均利用率？

And second is that once you reach the corporate average utilization rate, what's the profitability like?

第二，一旦達到企業平均利用率，盈利能力如何？

Will it be also be similar to the corporate average or still be interest rate devoted?

它也會與企業平均水平相似還是仍然是利率專用？

Well, again, our copper average hopefully is improving as a whole.

好吧，我們的銅平均價格有望整體上有所改善。

So it's difficult to just benchmark to corporate average.

因此，很難僅以企業平均水平為基準。

The goal is really to drive the synergy as of this newly acquired fab.

真正的目標是推動這家新收購的晶圓廠的協同效應。

And so far, it has been meeting or even exceeding our expectations.

到目前為止，它已經達到甚至超過了我們的預期。

So we're pretty happy with the current achievement, and we do expect to see further benefit out of the whole integration effort.

因此，我們對目前的成就感到非常滿意，並且我們確實希望從整個整合工作中看到進一步的好處。

But again, we cannot quote in terms of numbers, as we see no reason why this fab cannot have similar profitability as any single fab we have in Taiwan or Singapore.

但同樣，我們不能引用數字，因為我們認為這家晶圓廠沒有理由不能像我們在台灣或新加坡擁有的任何單一晶圓廠那樣具有類似的盈利能力。

Okay.

好的。

I see.

我懂了。

Last question for me.

我的最後一個問題。

I think this probably might be addressed by the other analysts, but I sort of dialed in later, but you just -- just a follow-up on the depreciation outlook for 2021.

我認為其他分析師可能會解決這個問題，但我稍後撥通了電話，但你只是 - 只是對 2021 年貶值前景的跟進。

With the new CapEx on 28 now in place, what's your updated view on the depreciation magnitude for 2021?

28 日新的資本支出現已到位，您對 2021 年折舊幅度的最新看法是什麼？

It's still on the decline trend.

它仍然處於下降趨勢。

So again, back in 2019, the overall depreciation expenses declined by about 5% to 6%.

因此，在 2019 年，整體折舊費用再次下降了約 5% 至 6%。

And for 2020, we expect to see low single digit decline.

而對於 2020 年，我們預計會出現低個位數的下降。

We saw a little bit more decline rate in 2021.

我們在 2021 年看到了更多的下降率。

Okay.

好的。

We're a little bit more than low single digit?

我們比低個位數多一點點？

A lot more than low single digit.

遠遠超過低個位數。

A lot more?

多很多？

Yes.

是的。

And the next question is coming from [Stephen Chin of Alicia] Capital.

下一個問題來自 [Alicia] Capital 的 Stephen Chin。

This is [Stephen from Alicia] Capital.

這是[來自艾麗西亞的斯蒂芬]資本。

The first question, I would still like to follow up on the CapEx.

第一個問題，我仍然想跟進資本支出。

So in the past few years, the CapEx has pretty disciplined.

所以在過去的幾年裡，資本支出非常有紀律。

And this year, we see it higher.

今年，我們看到它更高。

You already explained a reason.

你已經解釋了一個原因。

I'm just wondering if from the company management point of view, you still aim for disciplining CapEx and high-tech generation business model or we should treat this year as kind of an inflection point that you start to see more semiconductor counterweight opportunity, so you start to earn for more growth?

我只是想知道從公司管理層的角度來看，您是否仍然致力於規範資本支出和高科技一代商業模式，或者我們應該將今年視為您開始看到更多半導體平衡機會的拐點，所以你開始賺取更多的增長？

Well, our CapEx policy is -- remains the same, is disciplined CapEx policy.

好吧，我們的資本支出政策 - 保持不變，是有紀律的資本支出政策。

So we will continue to cautiously foresee with this approach.

因此，我們將繼續謹慎地預測這種方法。

Our budget will be subject to the strengthened ROI criteria every year.

我們的預算每年都會受到強化的投資回報率標準的約束。

And we -- when we do that, we actually factor in overall cash dividend payout to shareholders while ensuring affordable spending that will deliver our target organic growth.

我們 - 當我們這樣做時，我們實際上會考慮向股東支付的整體現金股息，同時確保能夠實現我們目標有機增長的負擔得起的支出。

So it's a balance at, and we'll continue with our disciplined CapEx approach.

所以這是一個平衡，我們將繼續我們嚴格的資本支出方法。

Understood.

明白了。

My second question is regarding your customer portfolio change regarding the -- I mean based on the geography breakdown.

我的第二個問題是關於您的客戶組合變化——我的意思是基於地理細分。

So in 2019, we see Asian customer percentage-wise increased quite significantly.

因此，在 2019 年，我們看到亞洲客戶的百分比顯著增加。

Just wonder, do you consider this trend will continue?

只是想知道，您認為這種趨勢會持續下去嗎？

I think in the past couple of years, we actually observed this trend actually a couple of years ago, it's not recent.

我認為在過去的幾年裡，我們實際上在幾年前就觀察到了這種趨勢，而不是最近。

And we think we will get to a situation we start actuating and this will be probably -- the outlook will be similar to what we've seen today.

我們認為我們會遇到我們開始採取行動的情況，這可能是 - 前景將與我們今天看到的相似。

Understood.

明白了。

Yes.

是的。

And the next question is regarding -- also a follow up on your estimate for the foundry revenue growth.

下一個問題是關於 - 也是對您對代工收入增長的估計的後續行動。

Still curious, do you consider those internal supply also as part of your number in your calculation?

仍然很好奇，您是否將這些內部供應也視為您計算中數字的一部分？

Or you only consider third-party foundry?

還是只考慮第三方代工？

Can you repeat that question again?

你能再重複一遍這個問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

The question is when you guided for the foundry market growth, I was just wondering if you consider those -- the [quality] foundry, but most of the revenue is for the internal demand.

問題是當你指導代工市場增長時，我只是想知道你是否考慮那些——[質量]代工，但大部分收入是用於內部需求。

Do you consider that as part of your calculation?

你認為這是你計算的一部分嗎？

No.

不。

I don't think we include that.

我認為我們不包括在內。

I see.

我懂了。

Okay.

好的。

And last question is, you mentioned about a 200-millimeter.

最後一個問題是，您提到了 200 毫米。

If part of that -- the growth is under ISP switch, the automation about RF SOI.

如果其中的一部分——增長是在 ISP 開關下，關於 RF SOI 的自動化。

So I'm curious if you also see the RF SOI growth at 300-millimeter?

所以我很好奇你是否也看到了 300 毫米的 RF SOI 增長？

And for you, in particular, do you see -- I mean, is that under (inaudible) Do you see it is mainly on the RF SOI or you are also doing the FD SOI?

特別是對您而言，您是否看到——我的意思是，在（聽不清）您看到它主要是在 RF SOI 上還是您也在做 FD SOI？

We are not participating in FD SOI today.

我們今天不參加 FD SOI。

And we're only referring to the RF SOI.

我們只指RF SOI。

And as the product migration trend, we do see the RF SOI will migrating by 8-inch to 12 inch.

隨著產品遷移的趨勢，我們確實看到 RF SOI 將遷移 8 英寸到 12 英寸。

And as far as the 8-inch demand outlook, beside the RF switch, RF transceiver, we also see in the area, and we see a significance of power management ICs, the main as well.

而就 8 英寸的需求前景而言，除了射頻開關、射頻收發器之外，我們也看到了該領域，並且我們看到了主要的電源管理 IC 的重要性。

Understood.

明白了。

And also congratulations to your good Q outlook.

也祝賀你的良好 Q 前景。

And the next question is coming from Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse.

下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的蘭迪艾布拉姆斯。

Okay.

好的。

Just had a few quick follow-up questions.

只是有幾個快速的後續問題。

One for the OpEx, where it's been running about 10% to 11% of sales.

一個用於運營支出，它一直佔銷售額的 10% 到 11%。

If you could talk about now how you kind of see that growing in the coming year, just in absolute or as a percent of revenue?

如果您現在可以談談您如何看待來年的增長，只是絕對值還是佔收入的百分比？

And the other one, just the tax rate to use?

而另一個，只是要使用的稅率？

For OpEx, in absolute dollar terms, because of the addition of the Japanese operation, we do not see too much fluctuation in the absolute OpEx dollars.

對於 OpEx，以絕對美元計算，由於日本業務的加入，我們沒有看到絕對 OpEx 美元波動太大。

But because of the kind of optimistic outlook for the whole 2020, we do expect OpEx as a percentage of revenue will gradually trend down.

但由於對整個 2020 年的樂觀前景，我們確實預計運營支出佔收入的百分比將逐漸下降。

So that's our goal.

這就是我們的目標。

And for tax, there's not much change in the current circumstance.

而對於稅收，目前的情況並沒有太大的變化。

And we do have some tax expenses reversal in Q4 of last year, which will result in tax credit instead of tax expenses for Q4 last year.

而且我們在去年第四季度確實有一些稅收費用逆轉，這將導致稅收抵免而不是去年第四季度的稅收費用。

But overall, we are talking about 10% plus/minus of our corporate tax average.

但總的來說，我們談論的是公司稅平均值的 10% 加/減。

Okay.

好的。

And then last question on the end markets, the stable first quarter, even with the Chinese figures, are pretty decent for shipments.

最後一個關於終端市場的問題，穩定的第一季度，即使有中國的數據，出貨量也相當不錯。

Could you give maybe a split by the applications, what you're seeing, maybe areas that may be growing a bit in first quarter and any areas declining a bit?

您能否按應用程序劃分，您所看到的，也許是第一季度可能會有所增長的領域以及任何領域有所下降的領域？

Yes.

是的。

The -- we see the Q1 the strongest is in the computer segment.

- 我們看到第一季度最強的是計算機領域。

Then the -- followed by the communication, and the consumer is weakest right now.

然後——接著是溝通，消費者現在是最弱的。

Computer segment, I guess, within that, because overall PC, there's, I guess, not that much happening, but is there something driving that to be better?

計算機部分，我猜，在其中，因為整體 PC，我猜，發生的事情並不多，但是有什麼東西可以推動它變得更好嗎？

Yes.

是的。

We actually see a lot of a high-speed I/O interface devices, the USB, the HDMI, the -- all those high-speed devices where we see quite a bit of demand increase.

我們實際上看到了很多高速 I/O 接口設備，USB、HDMI，所有這些我們看到需求增加的高速設備。

Ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for all your questions.

女士們，先生們，我們感謝您提出的所有問題。

That concludes today's Q&A session.

今天的問答環節到此結束。

I will turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

我將把事情交給 UMC IR 負責人結束髮言。

Thank you for attending this conference today.

感謝您參加今天的這次會議。

We appreciate your questions.

我們感謝您的提問。

As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir@umc.com.

與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時通過 ir@umc.com 聯繫 UMC。

Have a good day.

祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for fourth quarter 2019.

女士們先生們，我們 2019 年第四季度的會議到此結束。

And we thank you for your participation in UMC's conference.

我們感謝您參加聯華電子的會議。

There will be a webcast replay within an hour.

將在一小時內進行網絡直播重播。

Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors Events section.

請訪問 www.umc.com 的“投資者活動”部分。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連接。

Goodbye.

再見。