聯華電子 (UMC) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(audio in progress) uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond the company's control. For a more detailed description of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the ROC Security Authorities.

（音訊進行中）可能導致實際結果出現重大差異的不確定性，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。有關這些風險和不確定性的更詳細描述，請參閱我們最近和隨後向 SEC 和中華民國安全機構提交的文件。

During this conference, you may view our financial presentation material, which is being broadcast live through the Internet.

在本次會議期間，您可以觀看我們正在透過網路現場直播的財務簡報資料。

Now, I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Chi-Tung Liu to discuss UMC's third quarter 2024 financial results.

現在，我想介紹聯電財務長劉志東先生來討論聯華電子2024年第三季的財務表現。

Thank you, Michael. I'd like to go through the 3Q '24 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded or viewed in real time from our website.

謝謝你，麥可。我想瀏覽一下 24 年第三季投資者會議演示材料，該材料可以從我們的網站下載或即時查看。

Starting on Page 4. The third quarter of 2024 consolidated revenue was [TWD60.5 billion], with gross margin at 33.8%. The net income attributable to the stockholders of the parent was TWD14.5 billion, and earnings per ordinary shares were [TWD1.16]. For the capacity utilization rate in the third quarter was 71%, which is slightly up from 58% in the previous quarter.

從第4頁開始。歸屬於母公司股東的淨利為新台幣145億元，每股普通股收益為[新台幣1.16]。第三季產能利用率為71%，略高於上季的58%。

On page 5, the sequential comparison, operating revenue grew 6.5% to TWD60.5 billion. Gross margin was 33.8% compared to 35.2% in the previous quarter. Our net income in the third quarter was TWD14.44 billion. This is compared to the TWD13.77 billion number in the previous quarter and for EPS, it's TWD1.16 per share.

第 5 頁的環比顯示，營業收入成長 6.5%，達到 605 億新台幣。毛利率為 33.8%，上一季為 35.2%。第三季淨利為新台幣144.4億元。與上一季的 137.7 億新台幣相比，每股 EPS 為 1.16 台幣。

On page 6. For the first three quarters of 2024, cumulative revenue grew 2.6% to TWD171.9 billion. Gross margin rate was 33.3%. The decline of 4.4% or 2.5 percentage point was mainly due to the increased depreciation happened in 2024. For the net income for the first three quarters reached TWD38.64 billion. For the net income attributable to the shareholder of the parent was TWD38.71 billion, which is equivalent to TWD 0.12 per share in EPS.

第 6 頁。毛利率為33.3%。下降4.4%或2.5個百分點，主要是由於2024年折舊增加。歸屬於母公司股東的淨利為新台幣387.1億元，相當於每股每股收益0.12新台幣。

On page 7 is our balance sheet. Our cash dividend payout still remain above TWD100 billion. The number is TWD103.4 billion at the end of third quarter. The total equity for the company now reached TWD358.5 billion at the end of third quarter of 2024.

第 7 頁是我們的資產負債表。我們的現金股息仍維持在 1000 億個新台幣以上。第三季末這一數字為新台幣1,034億元。截至2024年第三季末，公司總股本達到3,585億新台幣。

For Q3 2024 on page 8, the ASP numbers remain resilient, flattish and this is compared to the previous quarter. We didn't see much change for our blended ASP. On page 9 for revenue breakdown, Asia now represents 65% of our total revenue, and Europe declined by 2 percentage point from 7% to 5%.

對於第 8 頁的 2024 年第三季度，平均售價數字保持彈性且持平，與上一季相比。我們沒有看到混合 ASP 有太大變化。在第 9 頁的收入細分中，亞洲目前占我們總收入的 65%，歐洲下降了 2 個百分點，從 7% 降至 5%。

On page 10. IDM rebound from 13% in the previous quarter now to 15% in the third quarter of '24. In terms of segment breakdown, communication also increased to 42% from 39% in the previous quarter, and computer declined by 2% from 15% to 13%.

第 10 頁。從細分細分來看，通訊也從上季的39%上升至42%，電腦則下降2%，從15%下降至13%。

On page 12. Our 22/28 nanometer revenue in both absolute dollar amount and also percentage reached a record high of 35% in the third quarter of '24 and 40 nanometer stayed around 13% in the third quarter.

第 12 頁。

For our capacity table on page 13. Our 12A in Thailand continued to increase leading-edge capacity, and that will bring up the full year capacity increase for UMC to above 7%. And last page on page 14. We revised update our annual CapEx budget from previously [USD3.3 billion to now USD3 billion] even. This is just to reflect the update schedule mainly for our Singapore capacity ramp.

第13頁的產能表。第 14 頁的最後一頁 我們甚至將年度資本支出預算從之前的 [33 億美元調整為現在的 30 億美元]。這只是為了反映主要針對我們新加坡產能提升的更新時間表。

So the above is a summary of UMC results for 3Q 2024. More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

以上是聯華電子 2024 年第三季業績的摘要。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wong.

我現在將電話轉給聯華電子總裁 Jason Wong 先生。

Thank you, Chi-Tung. Good evening, everyone. Here, I would like to share UMC's third quarter results. In the third quarter, we delivered results that were in line with the guidance. In particular, wafer shipment grew more than expected, increasing 7.8% sequentially due to a strong demand for 22/28 nanometer product.

謝謝你，志東。大家晚上好。在這裡，我想分享一下聯華電子第三季的業績。第三季度，我們交付的業績符合指引。特別是，由於對22/28奈米產品的強勁需求，晶圓出貨量成長超過預期，較上季成長7.8%。

Our strategy is to develop specialty technology solutions that deliver best-in-class performance, and I am pleased to report that revenue in absolute dollars derived from our specialty portfolio is the record high in the third quarter, accounting for 53.1% of the total sales.

我們的策略是開發能夠提供一流性能的專業技術解決方案，我很高興地報告，我們的專業產品組合帶來的絕對美元收入在第三季創歷史新高，佔總銷售額的 53.1% 。

In our industry, technology is fundamental. We continue to invest significantly in technology development every year to ensure we are ready to support customers' next-generation product features with more advanced solutions.

在我們這個行業，技術是根本。我們每年繼續在技術開發上進行大量投資，以確保我們準備好透過更先進的解決方案支援客戶的下一代產品功能。

For instance, our 22 nanometer display driver solution was the first to be made available to the market and offers unparalleled performance. And we foresee strong tape-out momentum in the upcoming months.

例如，我們的 22 奈米顯示器驅動器解決方案是第一個向市場推出的解決方案，並提供無與倫比的性能。我們預計未來幾個月的流片勢頭將強勁。

With regards to Q4 outlook, we are seeing demand stabilizing across end markets and a clear downward trend in inventory levels. Looking ahead, we have a number of exciting technology and collaboration projects in the pipeline as we continue to align closely with our customers road map.

就第四季前景而言，我們看到終端市場的需求穩定，庫存水準明顯下降。展望未來，隨著我們繼續與客戶路線圖緊密結合，我們將有許多令人興奮的技術和合作項目正在醞釀中。

In addition, as we hear consistently from customers, UMC's diversified manufacturing footprint is also very important in supporting their long-term strategies. Our new fab expansion in Singapore is nearly in completion, while our collaboration with Intel remains on track. These projects will further enhance our value proposition to customers and strengthen our position in the foundry industry.

此外，正如我們從客戶那裡不斷聽到的那樣，聯華電子的多元化製造足跡對於支持他們的長期策略也非常重要。我們在新加坡的新工廠擴建已接近完成，而我們與英特爾的合作仍在順利進行中。這些項目將進一步增強我們對客戶的價值主張，並鞏固我們在鑄造行業的地位。

Now let's move on to fourth quarter 2024 guidance. Our wafer shipments will remain flat. ASP in US dollar will remain flat. NT dollar appreciation may lead to a decline in our reported Q4 NT dollar revenue. Gross margin will be close to 30%. Capacity utilization rate will be in the high 60% range. Our 2024 cash-based CapEx will be budgeted at USD3 billion.

現在讓我們繼續討論 2024 年第四季的指導。我們的晶圓出貨量將保持穩定。以美元計算的平均售價將維持不變。新台幣升值可能會導致我們報告的第四季新台幣收入下降。毛利率將接近30%。產能利用率將在60%左右。我們 2024 年以現金為基礎的資本支出預算為 30 億美元。

That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention. Now we are ready for questions.

我的評論到此結束。感謝大家的關注。現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) Sunny Lin, UBS.

（操作員指令）Sunny Lin，UBS。

Thank you very much. So my first question is on Q4. So the call back in July, Jason, you mentioned there could be some seasonal slowdown into Q4. But now it seems like you are able to hold out the revenue for Q4. It's a bit better than expected. So what's driving the upside at this point in your view on 2025?

非常感謝。所以我的第一個問題是關於第四季的。所以，傑森，在 7 月的電話會議中，您提到第四季度可能會出現一些季節性放緩。但現在看來你可以堅持第四季的營收。比預想的要好一些。那麼您認為 2025 年目前是什麼因素推動了上漲呢？

Well, for Q4, we foresee the trend in computing segment will be slightly better quarter over quarter than we originally expected. And however, will be offset by a mild decline in communication and consumer segment. Net-net, I think that will be more of a flat quarter from a ship out point of view.

那麼，對於第四季度，我們預計計算領域的趨勢將比我們最初預期的季度略好。然而，通訊和消費領域的輕微下滑將抵​​消這一影響。淨淨，我認為從出貨的角度來看，這個季度將更加持平。

For 2025 market outlook, although, the global economic shows sign of recovery and the inventory level is improving however, the forecast from our customers at this moment remains conservative. For 2025 early preview, we do expect to see an increase in our wafer shipments as well.

對於2025年的市場前景，儘管全球經濟出現復甦跡象，庫存水準也在改善，但目前我們客戶的預測仍然保守。對於 2025 年早期預覽，我們確實預期晶圓出貨量也會增加。

Got it. Thank you, Jason. So a follow-up on pricing. Lately, there is lots of noises and debates. But just wonder, from your perspective, are you seeing stabilization? Or are you seeing another round of competition into year-end or 2025?

知道了。謝謝你，傑森。因此，對定價進行後續跟進。最近，有很多噪音和爭論。但想知道，從您的角度來看，您是否看到了穩定性？或者您預計年底或 2025 年還會有另一輪競爭？

In Q1 this year, the company did offer a one-time reset for [foundry] ASP dropped about 4% to provide some customer support. And so, any initial expectations based on your current negotiation with the clients? Should we expect some foundry ASP erosion into early 2025 as well?

今年第一季度，該公司確實為[代工廠]提供了一次性重置，平均售價下降了約 4%，以提供一些客戶支援。那麼，根據您目前與客戶的談判，您有什麼初步期望嗎？我們是否應該預計到 2025 年初代工平均售價也會出現一些下降？

Well, on the ASP for the Q4 2024 ASP, our pricing will remain flat as we guided. In terms of pricing situation, our UMC pricing resilience has been well demonstrated during the demand-supply imbalance that reflect our ability to navigate the challenge that arise from the capacity oversupply. So in our view, throughout the 2024, they are capacity oversupply situation in which we are maintaining our pricing resilience.

好吧，就 2024 年第四季的平均售價而言，我們的定價將與我們的指導保持持平。在定價情況方面，我們的聯電定價彈性在供需失衡期間得到了很好的體現，這反映了我們應對產能過剩挑戰的能力。因此，我們認為，整個 2024 年都是產能供過於求的情況，但我們仍保持定價彈性。

And we do believe our pricing resilience will persist given our efforts on our technology value proposition and including our dominated position in high-end smartphone display leadership, some of the smartphones are front-end modules. And while we continue doing a product mix optimization and with our diversified manufacturing footprint. So we believe our pricing will persist and the resilience will persist.

我們確實相信，鑑於我們在技術價值主張上所做的努力，以及我們在高階智慧型手機顯示器領導地位方面的主導地位，我們的定價彈性將持續存在，其中一些智慧型手機是前端模組。同時我們繼續進行產品組合優化和多元化的製造足跡。因此，我們相信我們的定價將持續存在，彈性也將持續存在。

If we go into a 2025 pricing, we do foresee pricing outlook were resembling -- resemble a similar pattern to 2024. Where at beginning of 2025 pricing adjustment will be again another one-off, which will reflect our alignment with the customer to cope with the market dynamics and gain market shares. The pricing scheme is within our disciplined financial guidance and will not change our overall pricing position and resilience.

如果我們進入 2025 年定價，我們確實預計定價前景將與 2024 年類似。此定價方案符合我們嚴格的財務指導，不會改變我們的整體定價地位和彈性。

Thank you, Jason. So for Q1 2025, if there's another reset, would the magnitude be similar with Q1 this year?

謝謝你，傑森。那麼2025年第一季度，如果再次重置，幅度會與今年第一季類似嗎？

I mean, we will provide that guidance in the upcoming call, but there will be a one-off.

我的意思是，我們將在即將到來的電話會議中提供這項指導，但將會是一次性的。

Got it. No problem. Another question on gross margin. Q4 revenue is guided to be flat. ASP is also flat. But you anticipate gross margin to fall to 30% from 34% in Q3, what's the reason behind? And looking ahead, if based on [20%] or high utilization rate, what will be a reasonable gross margin range that we should expect?

知道了。沒問題。另一個關於毛利率的問題。第四季營收預計持平。 ASP也持平。但您預計毛利率將從第三季的34%下降至30%，背後的原因是什麼？展望未來，如果基於[20%]或高利用率，我們應該預期的合理毛利率範圍是多少？

So for the Q4 margin, lower guidance is largely due to a lower capacity utilization rate, the high 50% versus 71% in Q3. Also, the NT dollar is a headwind because of [TWD32.29] was the average ForEx we use in the previous quarter. And this quarter, I think, at least in the beginning even shoot up to nearly [TWD31.5 per US dollars].

因此，對於第四季的利潤率而言，指引較低主要是由於產能利用率較低，第三季為 50%，而第三季為 71%。此外，新台幣也是一個逆風，因為 [TWD32.29] 是我們上一季使用的平均外匯價格。我認為，這個季度，至少在一開始，甚至飆升至接近[每美元31.5新台幣]。

And also, the higher depreciation rise from capacity expansion. This factor is going to impact us for relatively few quarters. I mean, we probably won't see the depreciation impact go away until a few quarters later. But most importantly, the gross margin if we use EBITDA margin, actually the numbers are very similar quarter over quarter.

此外，產能擴張導致折舊上升。這個因素將在相對較短的幾個季度內影響我們。我的意思是，我們可能要到幾個季度後才能看到貶值影響消失。但最重要的是，如果我們使用 EBITDA 利潤率，則毛利率實際上每季的數字都非常相似。

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

戈庫爾·哈里哈蘭，摩根大通。

Hi. My first question, Jason, I just wanted to get your view on your customer behavior and inventory levels. I think you mentioned that inventory is coming down across the supply chain. Let's say, next six months, do you feel like there is some prospects from your customers to get into a bit of a restocking cycle?

你好。我的第一個問題，傑森，我只是想了解您對客戶行為和庫存水準的看法。我想你提到整個供應鏈的庫存正在下降。比方說，接下來的六個月，您是否覺得您的客戶有可能進入補貨週期？

Do we feel like we can get back to like a 75%, 80% utilization in the near to medium-term? Or is that still going to take some time given the inventory behavior from the customers seems like very, very cautious?

我們是否認為我們可以在中短期內恢復到 75%、80% 的使用率？或者考慮到客戶的庫存行為似乎非常非常謹慎，這仍然需要一些時間嗎？

Sure, Gokul. Well, first, for the inventory outlook. From the applications perspective, overall inventory level within communication, consumer and computing have returned to relative normal level after several quarters of digestion. So we feel the inventory for those applications since get already back to the normal level.

當然，戈庫爾。首先是庫存前景。從應用領域來看，通訊、消費和計算領域的整體庫存水準經過幾季的消化已經恢復到相對正常水準。因此，我們感覺這些應用程式的庫存已經恢復到正常水平。

For the automotive and industrial segment, they will require more time and probably until end of Q2 '25 and to digest the inventory and return back to normal. After the inventory level return to normal, we do expect the demand pattern will follow the market seasonality.

對於汽車和工業領域，他們將需要更多時間，可能需要到 25 年第二季末才能消化庫存並恢復正常。庫存水準恢復正常後，我們預期需求模式將遵循市場季節性。

Now for the question, let's say, would there be a restocking and going back to higher utilization, it's our belief that foundry industry is experiencing an oversupply situation due to the supply chain resilience considerations. We can see the current utilization rate probably will be the bottom for the UMC and hopefully, it will rebound back to the average healthy level and to maybe 80%-plus and giving our continuous effort of technology differentiation.

現在的問題是，是否會重新補貨並恢復到更高的利用率，我們認為，出於供應鏈彈性的考慮，鑄造業正在經歷供應過剩的情況。我們可以看到，目前的利用率可能是聯華電子的底部，希望它能反彈到平均健康水平，並可能達到 80% 以上，並繼續努力實現技術差異化。

But that will be subject to the market behavior as well as the customer behavior and our technology differentiations. And meanwhile, we'll constantly focus on our technology differentiation and with the hope that market will recover.

但這將取決於市場行為、客戶行為和我們的技術差異。同時，我們將持續關注我們的技術差異化，並希望市場能夠復甦。

Got it. Thank you. And just a question on 8 inch. It feels like a lot of these issues are a lot more in play in 8 inch in terms of pricing as well as lower utilization. Is there anything strategic that UMC is considering? Are we at a point in the cycle of 8 inch that it is probably better to reduce the effective capacity that you have for 8 inch on a medium to long-term basis?

知道了。謝謝。還有一個關於8吋的問題。感覺很多這些問題在 8 吋螢幕上更加突出，體現在定價和利用率較低方面。聯華電子有什麼戰略考量嗎？我們是否正處於 8 吋週期的某個點，從中長期來看，減少 8 吋的有效產能可能會更好？

Are we at a point where there is enough capacity or enough products shifting from 8 to 12 inch that 8 inch doesn't really make much sense to have this much capacity?

我們是否已經有足夠的產能或足夠的產品從 8 英寸轉向 12 英寸，而 8 英寸擁有這麼多產能並沒有多大意義？

You're absolutely correct. And anything is possible. But at this moment, we do not have any plan to reduce our 8 inch capacity. We do believe the overall market demand for 8 inch will remain steady, but we do see opportunity to gain market share with differentiated technology solutions.

你是完全正確的。一切皆有可能。但目前我們還沒有任何減少8吋產能的計畫。我們確實相信 8 吋的整體市場需求將保持穩定，但我們確實看到了透過差異化技術解決方案獲得市場份額的機會。

So we still have some expectation with our 8 inch recovery. Our current 8 inch loading is under recovery, and we expect the 8 inch loading will gradually improve, driven by the effort in strengthening our solution in BCD and high-voltage platform.

所以我們對8吋的復甦還是有一些期待的。我們目前的8英寸負載正在恢復中，我們預計在加強我們在BCD和高壓平台解決方案的努力的推動下，8英寸負載將逐漸改善。

And given the -- after these few quarters, given the positive feedback from our customer, we foresee the gradual improvement in 8 inch is very possible.

經過這幾個季度，鑑於我們客戶的積極回饋，我們預計 8 英寸的逐步改進是很有可能的。

Okay. And maybe last question is on your partnership with Intel. Given there's a lot of noise about Intel cutting CapEx and having considering restructuring, considering spin-off or kind of at least separation of business, et cetera, a lot of noise out there.

好的。也許最後一個問題是關於您與英特爾的合作關係。鑑於有關英特爾削減資本支出並考慮重組、考慮分拆或至少是業務分離等的傳聞很多，因此存在許多噪音。

Anything that you're observing in terms of your partnership on 12 nanometer with them? Any changes in the timelines? Are you still looking at the 2027 timeline? Is there a chance for any pull-in of the timeline given that we are almost like a year or at least like six to eight months into that partnership?

您與他們在 12 奈米領域的合作有什麼觀察到的嗎？時間表有什麼變化嗎？你還在看2027年的時間表嗎？鑑於我們的合作已經差不多一年或至少六到八個月了，是否有可能推遲時間表？

Sure. All questions, let me see. One is on our current partner situation. I can tell you that the current 12 nanometer collaboration is progressing well. Our customers and partners are very positive on the potential of 12 nanometer business opportunity. And the project is on track, early engagement with the key customers have shown strong interest to pull in our 2027 production schedule.

當然。所有問題，讓我看看。一是我們目前的合作夥伴狀況。我可以告訴大家，目前12奈米合作進展順利。我們的客戶和合作夥伴對 12 奈米商機的潛力非常看好。該專案已步入正軌，與主要客戶的早期接觸對我們 2027 年的生產計劃表現出了濃厚的興趣。

According to the early evaluation feedback from the key customers, our 12 nanometer performance will be very competitive in the industry. And right now, we're working diligently with both our partner and key customers to further accelerate the schedule as requested. And overall, we are cautiously optimistic about that progress and we'll update you accordingly.

根據重點客戶的早期評估回饋，我們的12奈米性能在業界將非常有競爭力。目前，我們正在與合作夥伴和主要客戶努力合作，以根據要求進一步加快進度。整體而言，我們對此進展持謹慎樂觀態度，我們將相應地向您通報最新情況。

But I can tell you the next milestone right now is -- the key milestone right now we're looking at is the key. The new product tape out will take place in 2026 from the key customers.

但我可以告訴你，現在的下一個里程碑是——我們現在正在考慮的關鍵里程碑是關鍵。新產品將於 2026 年從主要客戶處流片。

Laura Chen, Citi.

勞拉陳，花旗銀行。

Thank you very much for taking my question. My question is also about the Intel collaboration. Can you give us more details or any color of what kind of the applications that could be? And also, how should we like share the profit or the capacity we have reserved for that 2026 or '27 onwards FinFET process?

非常感謝您回答我的問題。我的問題也是關於英特爾的合作。您能否向我們提供更多詳細資訊或任何可能的應用程式類型的顏色？此外，我們應該如何分享我們為 2026 年或 27 年之後的 FinFET 製程保留的利潤或產能？

Well, first of all, for the application, it's mainly focused on communication and consumer products. And beyond that, there could be many other product pipeline from a derivative that we'll continuely working closely with our customers.

那麼首先對於應用來說，主要是針對通訊和消費性產品。除此之外，我們將繼續與客戶密切合作，衍生出許多其他產品線。

As far as the capacity and the profit sharing, I mean, we are not leveraged to update you the profit sharing scheme. However, from a capacity standpoint, we believe there is a sufficient capacity to expand, and we'll just have to align with our customer and along with our partner to gradually put that expansion plan together. Once we have a clear picture on the initial number, then we'll share with you accordingly.

就產能和利潤分享而言，我的意思是，我們不會利用槓桿來向您更新利潤分享計畫。然而，從產能的角度來看，我們相信有足夠的產能進行擴張，我們只需要與我們的客戶和合作夥伴一起逐步製定擴張計劃。一旦我們清楚地了解了初始數字，我們就會與您分享。

And It's really based upon the customer adoption rate rather than constrained by the capacity.

它實際上是基於客戶採用率，而不是受容量限制。

Okay. Thank you. And also, my second question is also about gross margin outlook. As Jason mentioned that industry-wise, we see the oversupply situation. And also, on the other hand, we have some ongoing expansion. So I'm just wondering that do we have any idea about like what structural gross margin we are looking for in the longer term?

好的。謝謝。另外，我的第二個問題也是關於毛利率前景。正如傑森所提到的，從行業角度來看，我們看到了供應過剩的情況。另一方面，我們正在進行一些擴張。所以我只是想知道我們是否知道我們長期尋求的結構性毛利率是多少？

I mean, first of all, we are continuing to invest towards the future in developing a new solution in larger but advanced specialty technology. Therefore, we anticipate a rising depreciation burden during the ramp-up phase of the capacity expansion. Chi-Tung actually touched it earlier.

我的意思是，首先，我們將繼續投資未來，以更大但更先進的專業技術開發新的解決方案。因此，我們預期在產能擴張的加速階段，折舊負擔將會上升。池東其實早些時候就接觸過它。

Secondly, given the rising cost of goods in utility, renewable energy and carbon tax and which our industry is experiencing. And we have to continue to deploy aggressive cost management and to offset those headwinds in costs. And we'll constantly manage the projection of those impacts. So giving that, we still project that we feel we are confident that UMC will maintain a solid structure profitability in the long term.

其次，考慮到我們的行業正在經歷的公用事業、再生能源和碳稅方面的商品成本不斷上升。我們必須繼續部署積極的成本管理並抵消成本方面的不利因素。我們將持續管理這些影響的預測。因此，我們仍然預期聯電將長期維持穩健的獲利結構。

And maybe post the 2025, once the depreciation numbers get to the level we expected, we'll get back to the doing low-30 to low-40 range, which we believe that will be a healthy level of long-term gross margin target for us. {}

也許在 2025 年之後，一旦折舊數字達到我們預期的水平，我們將回到低 30 到低 40 的範圍，我們相信這將是長期毛利率目標的健康水平對我們來說。 {}

So can you kind of assume that given our current utilization rate is only at about 60%, 70% range and with the inventory digestion almost done, structurally we will see that 30% at the relatively trough level in the longer term?

那麼，您是否可以假設，鑑於我們目前的利用率僅在 60%、70% 左右，並且庫存消化已基本完成，從結構上看，從長遠來看，我們將看到 30% 處於相對低谷水平？

I think there are many factors. So it's very difficult for us to commit the absolute numbers. So what Jason just mentioned is there are several headwinds coming. And we also work diligently to offset the impact. Overall, we do believe our structure profitability should be intact. And especially for year 2025 and '26, we will focus more on EBITDA margin, which really has no major reason will be different materially compared to the previous down cycle.

我認為有很多因素。所以我們很難提交絕對數字。所以傑森剛才提到的是，有一些阻力即將到來。我們也在努力抵消影響。總體而言，我們確實相信我們的獲利結構應該完好無損。特別是對於 2025 年和 26 年，我們將更專注於 EBITDA 利潤率，與先前的下行週期相比，這確實沒有重大原因會出現重大差異。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley

陳查理，摩根士丹利

Hello. (inaudible) good afternoon. So my first question is also regarding the pricing. But I wanted to have a step back to compare your current status versus maybe two years ago. Two years ago, I remember, would you comment about your product mix, right? You said 70% is not commodity and some of those are kind of a single source, right? So customers wouldn't care about your pricing.

你好。 （聽不清楚）下午好。所以我的第一個問題也是關於定價。但我想退後一步，將您目前的狀態與兩年前進行比較。我記得兩年前，您會對您的產品組合發表評論嗎？你說 70% 不是商品，其中有些是單一來源，對嗎？所以客戶不會在乎你的定價。

But I remember a couple of quarters ago, that may come down a little bit to like 50%, maybe half of your business. But now, I'm confused because supposedly those commodity business should already go away given the competition.

但我記得幾個季度前，這可能會下降一點，例如 50%，也許是你業務的一半。但現在，我很困惑，因為考慮到競爭，這些商品業務應該已經消失了。

So your exposure to those single source or differentiated products should be even higher than before. In that case, why you still need to do like a onetime pricing adjustment at the beginning of next year? That's my first question.

因此，您對那些單一來源或差異化產品的接觸應該比以前更高。既然如此，為什麼還要像明年初那樣一次調整價格呢？這是我的第一個問題。

Sure. I mean, you're right from a product mix standpoint. Given there is oversupply situation in the industry. So we also have to closely working our customer to compete in their marketplace. So the pricing discussion is more associated with closely working our customer to gain market shares, not only associated with our stickiness with our customer.

當然。我的意思是，從產品組合的角度來看，你是對的。鑑於行業內存在供過於求的情況。因此，我們也必須與客戶密切合作，才能在他們的市場中競爭。因此，定價討論更多的是與我們的客戶密切合作以獲得市場份額有關，而不僅僅是與我們對客戶的黏性有關。

Based on the current utilization rate, it represents a very limited exposure to the product price sensitive from our perspective to our customer. So from a stickiness point of view, the comment remains intact. However, to continue to support our customers to be competitive in their marketplace we do need to consider that.

根據目前的使用率，從我們對客戶的角度來看，對價格敏感的產品的曝險非常有限。所以從黏性的角度來看，評論保持不變。然而，為了繼續支持我們的客戶在市場上保持競爭力，我們確實需要考慮這一點。

Okay. It's very helpful. And then do you observe that major foundry adjacencies also be more flexible on a mature note pricing? Is that one of the reasons that you also want to adjust your price early next year?

好的。這非常有幫助。然後您是否觀察到主要代工廠鄰接在成熟的票據定價上也更加靈活？這也是您明年初也想調整價格的原因之一嗎？

Well, I mean, we don't comment on specific company for all our peers. But in general, we need to get closer with the market price. If that representing the narrowing the margin, I mean, the range of the market price, then we have to respond. So in a way, we are working with our customers. We are actually working closely with our customers together to cope with those market dynamics. And the bottom line is we both need to be competitive.

嗯，我的意思是，我們不會為所有同行評論特定公司。但總的來說，我們需要與市場價格更接近。如果這代表著利潤的縮小，我的意思是，市場價格的範圍縮小，那麼我們就必須做出反應。所以在某種程度上，我們正​​在與客戶合作。實際上，我們正​​在與客戶密切合作，以應對這些市場動態。最重要的是我們都需要有競爭力。

And from our point of view, we need to provide competitive and differentiate some technology solution and at the same time be commercially competitive as well and to gain our market share.

從我們的角度來看，我們需要提供一些有競爭力和差異化的技術解決方案，同時也具有商業競爭力並獲得我們的市場份額。

And regarding the differentiated products. I'm wondering, can you comment a bit about your smartphone, differentiated IC market share? I remember the third quarter revenue or utilization was pretty good. It's probably one of the reason. So when I look at your fourth quarter UTRs decline, is that also because your market share is giving back to your competitor for this specific product line?

還有關於差異化產品。我想知道，您能評論一下您的智慧型手機、差異化IC市場份額嗎？我記得第三季的收入或利用率相當不錯。這可能是原因之一。那麼，當我看到你們第四季的 UTR 下降時，這是否也是因為你們的市佔率在這個特定產品線上回饋給了你們的競爭對手？

Well, a few things, right? I mean, one is our utilization guidance actually reduced mainly because our capacity increased. And we have guided the wafer out will be similar, right? So it will be flat. So we don't think there is a market share loss situation.

嗯，有幾件事，對吧？我的意思是，一是我們的利用率指導實際上減少了​​，主要是因為我們的產能增加了。和我們導出的晶圓也會類似吧？所以它會是平的。所以我們認為不存在市佔率流失的情況。

Now getting back to the specific 22 and 28, the display driver or linked market, I mean, we remain as the market leader in this display driver IC space. And we are the first to roll out the 22 HEIDI as well given the early demand pipeline. And we foresee and our position will not change.

現在回到具體的 22 和 28、顯示器驅動器或相關市場，我的意思是，我們仍然是該顯示驅動器 IC 領域的市場領導者。鑑於早期的需求管道，我們也是第一個推出 22 HEIDI 的公司。我們預見我們的立場不會改變。

Got you. So maybe last one to two small questions we're having you. So in the full-service business, right, I mean, over the past 12 months, there's definitely a need for non-TSMC supply chain. But into next year, it seems like TSMC is even more dominant in this core capacity supply. And this is some migration to newer technology like silicon bridge. So I know this was discussed like a few months ago. But now do you think that your approach capacity can be reutilized next year?

明白你了。也許我們要問您最後一兩個小問題。所以在全服務業務中，對吧，我的意思是，在過去的12個月裡，肯定需要非台積電的供應鏈。但進入明年，台積電在這核心產能供應上似乎更加主導。這是向矽橋等新技術的遷移。所以我知道幾個月前就討論過這個問題。但現在你認為你的進場能力明年可以重新利用嗎？

Well, certainly. I mean, right now, the capacity like we reported in the past is about [6k]. And currently, we support the current version of the interposer and that then will actually continue into the 2025, at least early 2025. And following that, we have a pipeline of engagement beyond with the multiple customers with a different product line as well.

嗯，當然。我的意思是，現在我們過去報道的容量約為 [6k]。目前，我們支援目前版本的中介層，並且實際上將持續到 2025 年，至少 2025 年初。

So we do have an expectation that this will continue. And there may be a case between in terms of the migration path and the schedule. But however, we do have confidence that those capacity will be used. And even now, we also -- and in addition to that, we actually think about -- we're actually in discussion with the customer if that requires additional capacity for us.

所以我們確實期望這種情況會持續下去。並且在遷移路徑和時間表方面可能存在某種情況。但是，我們確實有信心這些能力將會被利用。即使現在，我們也——除此之外，我們實際上也在考慮——我們實際上正在與客戶討論是否需要額外的容量。

Okay. That to me is not easy to reconcile, right? Because I think currently, the major customer obviously is the biggest AI semi company. So it makes sense for them to have a dual source, right, meaning buying a version from TSMC and maybe second source from your foundry. But when you talk about other customers may use your interposer, would there also be like your source? Or they use a single source from your interposer?

好的。這對我來說並不容易調和，對嗎？因為我認為目前，主要客戶顯然是最大的AI半公司。因此，他們擁有雙重來源是有意義的，對吧，這意味著從台積電購買一個版本，也許從你的代工廠購買第二個來源。但是當您談論其他客戶可能使用您的中介層時，是否也會有像您一樣的來源？或者他們使用來自您的中介層的單一來源？

Well, that's various, right? I mean, there's multiple customers, multiple types of programs with a different solution as well. So they are multiple sourcing, they are single source. So there are numbers of engagement projects that we are in discussion with right now.

嗯，這是多種多樣的，對吧？我的意思是，有多個客戶、多種類型的程式以及不同的解決方案。所以它們是多種來源的，它們是單一來源的。因此，我們現在正在討論許多參與項目。

Okay. So you're confident that can be fully utilized or even considering to add some capacity?

好的。那麼您有信心可以充分利用甚至考慮增加一些容量嗎？

Yes. Right.

是的。正確的。

And last one maybe to Chi-Tung. Electricity cost impacts, does that already show in your first quarter margin impact? Or how do we think about the margin sensitivity to Taiwan's electricity cost hike?

最後一位可能是給志東的。電力成本的影響，這是否已經反映在第一季利潤率的影響？或者我們如何看待台灣電價上漲的利潤敏感度？

Q4 guidance already embedded the electricity utility price hike. So we foresee headwinds such as utility rate hike and other inflationary pressures. So we will continue to deploy aggressive cost management efforts such as focusing on multi-sourcing strategy and streaming process for supply chain, pricing management and power reduction measures on facility and tools.

第四季指引已經包含了電力價格上漲。因此，我們預期會出現公用事業加息和其他通膨壓力等不利因素。因此，我們將繼續部署積極的成本管理工作，例如專注於供應鏈的多採購策略和流程、定價管理以及設施和工具的節能措施。

Also, we will continue to drive automation transformation and leverage our flexible work hours doing tool maintenance which will align with our holiday season. So this is the measure we will implement, especially when our capacity utilization rate is not up to the level we hoped. So we certainly believe this will help UMC at least to largely offset some cost headwinds to ensure our long-term financial resilience.

此外，我們將繼續推動自動化轉型，並利用我們的彈性工作時間進行工具維護，這將與我們的假期保持一致。所以這是我們將要實施的措施，特別是當我們的產能利用率沒有達到我們希望的水平時。因此，我們當然相信這將有助於聯華電子至少在很大程度上抵消一些成本阻力，以確保我們的長期財務彈性。

Brad Lin, Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

布拉德林（Brad Lin），美銀美林。

Thank you for taking my question. I have a question on the, well, RFSOI. We have earned a strong potential of RFSOI, especially in smartphone. Can the management elaborate expected growth trajectory over the maybe next two years? How is the customer demand shaping up so far for this technology?

感謝您回答我的問題。我有一個關於 RFSOI 的問題。我們已經獲得了 RFSOI 的強大潛力，尤其是在智慧型手機領域。管理階層能否詳細說明未來兩年的預期成長軌跡？到目前為止，客戶對該技術的需求如何？

If I may, I would also like to ask about a similar question but about another technology, which is the OLED driver IC especially for the FinFET stage?

如果可以的話，我還想問一個類似的問題，但涉及另一種技術，即專門用於 FinFET 級的 OLED 驅動器 IC？

Sure. Well, I mean, on the RFSOI space, for the past few years and we're definitely gaining our market position in the RFSOI in the antenna and switch extention. And we continue expanding our solution from this antenna switch to the (inaudible) and while expanding the broadband coverage in 5G, which we developed a derivative of the 40 nanometer RFSOI to address the emerging [4 range 3, the 7 to 24 megahertz] band with the most optimized and competitive performance solution.

當然。嗯，我的意思是，在 RFSOI 領域，在過去的幾年裡，我們確實在天線和開關擴展領域的 RFSOI 領域中獲得了市場地位。我們繼續將我們的解決方案從該天線開關擴展到（聽不清楚），同時擴大5G 的寬頻覆蓋範圍，我們開發了40 奈米RFSOI 的衍生產品，以解決新興的[4 範圍3，7 至24 兆赫] 頻段擁有最優化和最具競爭力的效能解決方案。

And additionally, we have the wafer-to-wafer hybrid bonding solution for the RF front end and module for all the advanced 5G applications from the space considerations. So I think we're starting to have a whole spectrum of the RFSOI solution from our successes in the radio and in the antenna and the switch space. So that's for the RFSOI.

此外，我們也為射頻前端和模組提供晶圓到晶圓混合鍵合解決方案，從空間角度考慮，適用於所有先進的 5G 應用。因此，我認為，憑藉我們在無線電、天線和開關領域的成功，我們開始擁有全系列的 RFSOI 解決方案。這就是 RFSOI。

On the OLED and our industry-leading HEIDI solution have consistently been the top choice for the display driver IC for the high-end smartphone. In addition, we have also expanded our driver IC to serve growing needs of notebook and tablet OLED panels. So it's already beyond smartphones. And beyond the 28 and 22 nanometers, we also have the 40 nanometer FinFET DDI solution in our product pipeline. So I think we're prepared for the consideration of FinFET.

在OLED方面，我們業界領先的HEIDI解決方案一直是高階智慧型手機顯示驅動IC的首選。此外，我們還擴展了驅動IC，以滿足筆記型電腦和平板電腦OLED面板不斷增長的需求。所以它已經超越了智慧型手機。除了 28 奈米和 22 奈米之外，我們的產品線還有 40 奈米 FinFET DDI 解決方案。所以我認為我們已經為考慮 FinFET 做好了準備。

But meanwhile, for the 22 and the FinFET is still under the exploratory stage. In our view, the 22 nanometers will be the main single OLED driver for at least the next two to three years. And the technology migration beyond 22 is under is under enrollment that we have divided between the 22 (inaudible) to align the schedule.

但同時，22和FinFET仍處於探索階段。我們認為，至少在未來兩到三年內，22 奈米將成為主要的單一 OLED 驅動器。超過 22 個國家的技術遷移正在進行中，我們已將其分配給 22 個國家（聽不清楚）以調整時間表。

Thank you very much. So another question would be on the geopolitical things. So basically, we are -- US is having a very important election soon. So as most of the market are increasing tensions, so what strategies are in place for UMC to manage the risk? And also, do you expect more upside or downside for UMC if the tension increases?

非常感謝。所以另一個問題是關於地緣政治問題。所以基本上，我們——美國即將舉行一次非常重要的選舉。那麼，隨著大多數市場的緊張局勢不斷加劇，聯華電子採取了哪些策略來管理風險？另外，如果緊張局勢加劇，您預期聯華電子會有更多的上行還是下行？

Okay. It's such a big question. Let me see. The geopolitical outlook taking place in the semiconductor industry, we have to say is unprecedented and inevitable. And such initiatives have led to a supply chain resilience. At the same time, it has created a capacity oversupply in the industry. So the industry is experiencing oversupply situation due to the supply chain resilience considerations. So obviously, that is the downside risk.

好的。這是一個很大的問題。讓我看看。可以說，半導體產業正在發生的地緣政治前景是前所未有的，也是不可避免的。這些措施增強了供應鏈的彈性。同時，也造成了產業產能過剩。因此，出於供應鏈彈性的考慮，該行業正在經歷供應過剩的情況。顯然，這就是下行風險。

And however, UMC is one of the few foundry suppliers who can support the global fab operations. We have envisioned a need for diversified manufacturing strategy for many years ago. And while, at the same time, we believe the fundamental competitiveness is a strength of our technology differentiation.

然而，聯華電子是少數能夠支援全球晶圓廠營運的代工供應商之一。多年前我們就預見了多元化製造策略的必要性。同時，我們相信根本的競爭力是我們技術差異化的優勢。

So we have deployed our technology in all our diversified manufacturing footprint to support our customer best we can. With the diversified manufacturing footprint and competitive technology offering, I think that will set us apart from our peer to mitigate that oversupply risk.

因此，我們在所有多元化的製造領域部署了我們的技術，以盡最大努力為我們的客戶提供支援。憑藉多元化的製造足跡和有競爭力的技術產品，我認為這將使我們在同行中脫穎而出，從而減輕供應過剩的風險。

Now the opportunities, our diversified manufacturing site provides supply chain resilience to our customers. That does become a one of the possibilities for the upside. We work on any opportunity from our customers and our many ongoing porting project already which will materialize after 2025. So there are some downside as well upside.

現在機會來了，我們多元化的製造基地為我們的客戶提供了供應鏈彈性。這確實成為上漲的可能性之一。我們致力於抓住客戶提供的任何機會以及我們許多正在進行的移植項目，這些項目將在 2025 年之後實現。

So would you be considered more upside and downside?

那麼你會被認為有更多的優點和缺點嗎？

It's probably hard to gauge right now. I do think we have the right position to do so to engage and capture those opportunities. Hopefully, that can offset the downside. But it's hard to gauge at this point because there is also other market landscape changes, for instance, end markets market share changes. So there will be changes in terms of customer mix as well. So we have to step by step continue monitoring the progress.

現在可能很難衡量。我確實認為我們有正確的立場來參與和抓住這些機會。希望這可以抵消負面影響。但目前很難衡量，因為還有其他市場格局的變化，例如終端市場的市佔率變化。因此，客戶結構也會發生變化。所以我們必須一步步繼續監控進度。

Right. So the strong interest for the customers for the fab in the collaboration with Intel about that project, would that be also attributed to some of the geopolitical tension?

正確的。那麼，客戶對晶圓廠與英特爾合作該計畫的強烈興趣，是否也歸因於地緣政治緊張局勢？

We think so because, I mean, there is one additional footprint for us. And it's the first time in the Western for us as well. And however, the fundamentals is still going back to technology competitiveness as well. Given the [12 Intel] collaboration project, we have confidence that we have a good solution, and we have a competitive solution. And along with the Western footprint, we do think that's a value proposition for our customers.

我們這麼認為是因為，我的意思是，我們還有一個額外的足跡。這對我們來說也是第一次出現在西部片中。然而，基本面仍然回到了技術競爭力。鑑於[12 Intel]協作項目，我們有信心我們有一個很好的解決方案，並且我們有一個有競爭力的解決方案。除了西方足跡外，我們確實認為這對我們的客戶來說是一個價值主張。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

盧小龍，高盛。

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Jason, you just mentioned that 28 nanometer, you do see the oversupply situation. Can you share with us what oversupply magnitude for 28 for next year, maybe the year after?

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。 Jason，您剛才提到28奈米，您確實看到了供過於求的情況。您能否與我們分享明年（也許是後年）28 的供應過剩程度是多少？

And the second level is that within the 28 you have certain derivative process like high voltage or any specialty. Can you also share what like supply-demand situation for the specialty process within 28?

第二個層次是，在 28 年內，您有某些衍生過程，例如高壓或任何專業。能否分享一下28以內特種製程的供需情況？

Sure. Focus on 28, so Bruce, one is giving you a perspective, in Q3, our 22 and 28 wafer shipments reached a record high. And our loading utilization in '22 and 28 is above our corporate average. So the 22 and 28 currently loading still demonstrate some resilience here despite there is additional capacity opened up. Whether those are effective capacity or not will remain to be seen.

當然。重點關注28，所以Bruce，一個給你一個視角，在第三季度，我們的22和28晶圓出貨量達到了歷史新高。我們 22 年和 28 年的裝載利用率高於公司平均。因此，儘管有額外的容量開放，但目前裝載的 22 和 28 仍然表現出一定的彈性。這些能力是否有效還有待觀察。

And for Q3, the 28 and 22 is still resilient. Now going to Q4 as well the 2025, the 22 and 28 will be our growth driver business and in different applications from communications, computing and consumer segments. And I think our 22 and 28 business will continue to grow.

對於第三季度，28 和 22 仍然具有彈性。現在進入第四季以及 2025 年，22 和 28 將成為我們的成長驅動業務，並應用於通訊、運算和消費領域的不同應用。我認為我們的 22 和 28 業務將繼續成長。

So we have a good confidence with our 22 and 28 loading situation despite there's capacity oversupply. And the competition will probably be more intense, but we have to continue tracking that progress on the market landscape.

因此，儘管運力供過於求，但我們對 22 和 28 的裝載情況充滿信心。競爭可能會更加激烈，但我們必須繼續追蹤市場格局的進展。

Now from our plan ourselves is we continue migrating our product into 22 nanometers. Currently, the 22 nanometer larger product has already entered production, which can help us to be top on our peers and set apart from our peers. And we also see the DDI and ISP migration to 22 is happening.

現在，根據我們自己的計劃，我們將繼續將我們的產品遷移到 22 奈米。目前，22奈米大尺寸產品已經投入量產，這可以幫助我們領先同行，領先同行。我們也看到 DDI 和 ISP 向 22 的遷移正在發生。

We foresee a strong stable of momentum on 22 nanometer for communication and consumer segments. And so, I think there's another data for you, that it's not just the 28 capacity. Also, we have to continue to roll out our 22 nanometer solutions.

我們預期 22 奈米技術在通訊和消費領域將呈現強勁穩定的發展動能。所以，我認為還有另一個數據給你，它不僅僅是 28 個容量。此外，我們還必須繼續推出 22 奈米解決方案。

And from a derivative and the DDI high voltage, we'll not stop there and there will be a derivative beyond that from the (technical difficulty) and as well as the RFSOI. And those are also in the pipeline on our road map. So we will continue pushing that. Hopefully, we can create a technology differentiation for our customer as well as maintaining or even increase our market position in the 28 and 22 space.

從衍生性商品和 DDI 高壓來看，我們不會就此止步，還會有超越（技術難度）和 RFSOI 的衍生性商品。這些也在我們的路線圖上。所以我們將繼續推動這一點。希望我們能夠為客戶創造技術差異化，並保持甚至提高我們在 28 和 22 領域的市場地位。

Just a quick follow-up. Are we talking about -- oversupply, are we talking about like 5% oversupply or 10% or like just like 1%, 2% oversupply situation as the overall 28?

只是快速跟進。我們是在談論供應過剩嗎？

Well, I mean, I don't have a specific data to share with you. I can look into it and give you an update. Meanwhile, we continue tracking the overall capacity buildup on all different nodes. But the same time, we are measuring in terms of the effectiveness and the addressable market in what kind of solution they address, not just the 28 logic.

嗯，我的意思是，我沒有具體的數據可以與你分享。我可以調查一下並向您提供最新情況。同時，我們繼續追蹤所有不同節點上的整體容量建設。但同時，我們正在衡量他們所解決的解決方案的有效性和潛在市場，而不僅僅是 28 邏輯。

So the data may be a bit fragmented, but let me just gather that, maybe get your update later.

因此，數據可能有點零散，但讓我收集一下，也許稍後會得到更新。

Okay. Thank you. So the second question is more for Chi-Tung. I mean, what kind of depreciation growth we're going to see for next year. I'm assuming that you're cutting your CapEx for this year. You will be mostly for maintenance CapEx and some of the infrastructure CapEx for next year.

好的。謝謝。所以第二個問題比較適合Chi-Tung。我的意思是，明年我們將看到什麼樣的折舊增長。我假設您今年將削減資本支出。明年您將主要用於維護資本支出和一些基礎設施資本支出。

So the depreciation growth is somehow more predictable for next year because you are mentioning that you're going to maintain the EBITDA margin, which is around 45%, I believe, at the current level. So I want to know what the depreciation growth for next year.

因此，明年的折舊成長在某種程度上更容易預測，因為你提到你將維持 EBITDA 利潤率，我認為目前的水準約為 45%。所以我想知道明年的折舊增長是多少。

The EBITDA margin is close to low-40s. And for the depreciation increase in 2024, it's a little bit over 20%. And next year, the number will be similar or probably slightly higher.

EBITDA 利潤率接近 40 多美元。而2024年的折舊增幅略高於20%。明年，這個數字將相似或可能略高。

You mean that the growth will be slightly higher than this year in terms of like 20%?

你的意思是成長會比今年略高一些，例如20%？

Yes.

是的。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this point. We thank you for all your questions that concludes today's Q&A session, and I'll turn it over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

（操作員說明） 此時沒有其他問題。我們感謝大家提出今天問答環節的所有問題，我會轉交給 UMC IR 主管進行總結發言。

Thank you for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir.umc.com.

感謝您參加今天的這次會議。我們感謝您的提問。與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時透過 ir.umc.com 聯絡 UMC。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for third quarter, 2024. Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference. There will be a webcast replay within two hours. Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors events section. You may now disconnect. Thank you and goodbye.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們，我們 2024 年第三季的會議到此結束。兩小時內將進行網路直播重播。請造訪 www.umc.com 的投資者活動部分。您現在可以斷開連線。謝謝你，再見。