聯華電子 (UMC) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome everyone to UMC's 2024 second quarter earnings conference call.

歡迎大家參加聯電 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet.

（操作員說明）僅供參考，本次電話會議現透過網路進行現場直播。

Webcast replay will be available within two hours after the conference is finished.

會議結束後兩小時內將提供網路直播重播。

Please visit our website www.umc.com under the Investor Relations, Investors Events section.

請造訪我們的網站 www.umc.com 的「投資者關係」、「投資者活動」部分。

And now, I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC.

現在，我想介紹一下聯華電子投資者關係主管 Michael Lin 先生。

Mr. Lin, please begin.

林先生，請開始。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And welcome to UMC's conference call for the second quarter of 2024.

歡迎參加聯電 2024 年第二季的電話會議。

I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, President of UMC; and Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, the CFO of UMC.

與我一同出席的還有聯華電子總裁 Jason Wang 先生；以及聯電財務長劉志東先生。

In a moment, you will hear our CFO present the second quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's focus and third-quarter 2024 guidance.

稍後，您將聽到我們的財務長介紹第二季的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁針對 UMC 的重點和 2024 年第三季指導的關鍵訊息。

Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session.

一旦我們的總裁和財務長完成發言，就會有問答環節。

UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors Financial section.

UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的「投資者財務」部分取得。

During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements based on management's current expectations and beliefs.

在這次會議期間，我們可能會根據管理層目前的期望和信念做出前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risk that may be beyond the company's control.

這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。

For a more detailed description of these risks and uncertainties, please refer to our recent and subsequent filings with the SEC and the ROC Security Authorities.

有關這些風險和不確定性的更詳細描述，請參閱我們最近和隨後向 SEC 和中華民國安全機構提交的文件。

During this conference, you may view our financial presentation material, which is being broadcast live through the internet.

在本次會議期間，您可以觀看我們正在透過網路現場直播的財務簡報資料。

Now, I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, to discuss UMC's second quarter 2024 financial results.

現在，我想介紹聯電財務長劉志東先生，討論聯華電子2024年第二季的財務表現。

Thank you, Michael.

謝謝你，麥可。

I'd like to go through the 2Q '24 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded or viewed in real time from our website.

我想瀏覽一下 2024 年第二季度投資者會議演示材料，該材料可以從我們的網站下載或即時查看。

Starting on page 4.

從第 4 頁開始。

The second quarter of 2024 consolidated revenue was TWD56.8 billion with gross margin at 35.2%.

2024年第二季合併營收為新台幣568億元，毛利率為35.2%。

The net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD13.8 billion and earnings per ordinary share were TWD1.11.

歸屬於母公司股東的淨利為新台幣138億元，每股普通股收益為新台幣1.11元。

In second quarter, our wafer shipment increased 2.5% quarter-over-quarter to 831,000 12-inch wafer equivalent in the second quarter.

第二季度，我們的晶圓出貨量較上季成長2.5%，達到831,000片12吋晶圓當量。

And utilization rate in the second quarter was 68% compared to 65% in the previous quarter.

第二季的利用率為 68%，而上一季的利用率為 65%。

Revenue grew by 4% quarter-over-quarter to TWD56.8 billion.

營收季增 4% 至新台幣 568 億元。

Other than the 2.5% QoQ wafer shipment increase, the other were helped by the weaker NT dollar exchange rate.

除了晶圓出貨量較上季成長 2.5% 外，其他因素都受到新台幣匯率走軟的推動。

And the gross margin, we mentioned earlier, was 35.2% or nearly TWD20 billion.

而我們之前提到的毛利率是35.2%，接近200億新台幣。

With the help -- minor help from the non-operating income, the total net income reached TWD13.77 billion and the net income attributable to the shareholder of the parent was TWD13.78 billion or TWD1.11 EPS in the second quarter.

在營業外收入的小幅幫助下，第二季淨利總額達到新台幣137.7億元，歸屬於母公司股東的淨利為新台幣137.8億元，每股收益1.11新台幣。

For the first half of the 2024, revenue was almost flat compared to the same period of last year, which was TWD111 billion for the first six months of the year.

2024年上半年，營收與去年同期幾乎持平，前六個月營收為新台幣1,110億元。

Gross margin was around 33.1% or TWD36.8 billion.

毛利率約 33.1%，即 368 億新台幣。

And net income margin is around 21.8% or TWD24.2 billion.

淨利潤率約 21.8%，即 242 億新台幣。

EPS in the first half was TWD1.95 per share.

上半年EPS為每股1.95新台幣。

Our cash level is around TWD121 billion, and our total equity at the end of second quarter of 2024 was TWD356 billion. ASP

我們的現金水準約為新台幣1,210億元，2024年第二季末的總股本為新台幣3,560億元。 ASP

remained flat in Q2 of 2024.

2024 年第二季維持持平。

In terms of revenue breakdown, Asia gained about 1% of the revenue distribution to 64%, North America stay unchanged at 25%.

從收入細分來看，亞洲的收入分配增加了約 1%，達到 64%，北美保持不變，為 25%。

IDM declined notably from 18% in the previous quarter to 13% in Q2 2024.

IDM 顯著下降，從上一季的 18% 降至 2024 年第二季的 13%。

Communication also declined from 48% in the previous quarter to 39% in quarter two.

通訊也從上一季的 48% 下降到第二季的 39%。

Consumer and computer both grew by single digit percentage, respectively.

消費者和計算機均分別以個位數百分比成長。

22/28 revenue continued to be around 33% and 40-nanometer declined from 14% in the previous quarter to 12% in this quarter.

22/28營收持續維持在33%左右，40奈米則從上一季的14%下降到本季的12%。

Capacity at the 12A continued to increase and in the third quarter of 2024, our 12A capacity will reach 400, above 1,000 12-inch equivalent wafers in the third quarter.

12A產能持續增加，2024年第三季度，我們的12A產能將達到400片，超過第三季1000片12吋等效晶圓。

Currently, the estimate for our 2024 CapEx remains unchanged around USD3.3 billion.

目前，我們對 2024 年資本支出的預測維持在 33 億美元左右不變。

The above is a summary of UMC result for Q2 2024.

以上是聯華電子 2024 年第 2 季業績摘要。

More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

更多詳細資訊請參閱我們網站上發布的報告。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.

我現在將電話轉給聯電總裁王傑森先生。

Thank you, Chi-Tung.

謝謝你，志東。

Good evening, everyone.

各位晚上好。

Here, I would like to share UMC's second quarter results.

在這裡，我想分享一下聯華電子第二季的業績。

In the second quarter, wafer shipments increased 2.6% quarter-over-quarter and fab utilization rate improved to 68% as we saw notable demand momentum in the consumer segment.

第二季度，由於消費領域需求強勁，晶圓出貨量較上季成長 2.6%，晶圓廠利用率提高至 68%。

Contribution from our 22/28 nanometer business rose sequentially on healthy demand of Wi-Fi and digital TV applications.

由於 Wi-Fi 和數位電視應用的健康需求，22/28 奈米業務的貢獻持續上升。

Together with a favorable exchange rate and improved product mix, second quarter gross margin was better than what we previously guided to.

再加上有利的匯率和改善的產品組合，第二季的毛利率好於我們先前的預期。

During the quarter, we announced the technology updates, including a 3D IC solution to stack RF SOI wafers, which is the first of its kind in the industry, and a 22-nanometer embedded high voltage platform, currently the most advanced display driver foundry solution in the market.

本季我們宣布了技術更新，包括業界首個堆疊射頻 SOI 晶圓的 3D IC 解決方案，以及目前最先進的顯示驅動代工解決方案 22 奈米嵌入式高壓平台在市場上。

They reflect UMC's commitment to building on our leadership across a number of specialty technologies that are crucial for the development of AI, 5G, and automotive.

它們反映了 UMC 致力於鞏固我們在許多對人工智慧、5G 和汽車發展至關重要的專業技術領域的領導地位。

Looking to the third quarter, we expect to see end market dynamics improve further, particularly in the communication and computing segment, which will drive higher fab utilization.

展望第三季度，我們預計終端市場動態將進一步改善，特別是在通訊和運算領域，這將推動更高的晶圓廠利用率。

Our 22/28 nanometer business remains a promising growth driver, with a number of tape-outs taking place in the second half for applications including display drivers, connectivity, and networking.

我們的 22/28 奈米業務仍然是一個充滿希望的成長動力，下半年出現了許多針對顯示器驅動器、連接和網路等應用的流片。

At the same time, we do expect to face some margin pressure going into the second half due to pick up in depreciation expense related to capacity expansions as well as a higher utility rate.

同時，由於與產能擴張相關的折舊費用上升以及較高的利用率，我們預計進入下半年將面臨一些利潤率壓力。

Despite these cost challenges, we believe we will continue to demonstrate our resilience as we did during the recent market downturn and deliver on our strategy of providing differentiated technology solutions and a diversified manufacturing footprint to help our customers to strengthen their supply chain management.

儘管有這些成本挑戰，我們相信我們將繼續展現我們在最近市場低迷期間的韌性，並實施我們提供差異化技術解決方案和多元化製造足跡的策略，以幫助我們的客戶加強其供應鏈管理。

Now, let's move on to the third quarter 2024 guidance.

現在，讓我們繼續討論 2024 年第三季的指導。

Our wafer shipments will increase by mid-single digit percentage.

我們的晶圓出貨量將以中個位數百分比成長。

ASP in US dollar will remain firm.

美元平均售價將維持堅挺。

Gross margin will be in the mid-30% range.

毛利率將在 30% 左右。

Capacity utilization rate will be approximately 70%.

產能利用率約70%。

Our 2024 cash-based CapEx will be budgeted at USD3.3 billion.

我們 2024 年以現金為基礎的資本支出預算為 33 億美元。

That concludes my comment.

我的評論到此結束。

Thank you all for your attention.

感謝大家的關注。

And now we are ready for questions.

現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) Sunny Lin, UBS.

（操作員指令）Sunny Lin，UBS。

Thank you very much for taking my questions.

非常感謝您回答我的問題。

Really glad to see improving gross margin in Q2.

很高興看到第二季毛利率有所改善。

And so my first question is on the utilization rate outlook.

所以我的第一個問題是關於利用率前景。

You are seeing some improvement going to Q3 to about 70%, but if we look at in the past few cycles, your utilization rate were around 85% to 90%.

您會看到第三季的使用率有所改善，達到 70% 左右，但如果我們看看過去的幾個週期，您的利用率約為 85% 至 90%。

In a better up-cycle it could be over 90%.

在更好的升級循環中，該值可能超過 90%。

And so now with the improving cycle, but still considering some oversupply issues, what will be a reasonable estimate for you to -- your utilization rate going into 2025?

現在，隨著週期的改善，但仍然考慮一些供應過剩問題，您對 2025 年利用率的合理估計是多少？

I mean, I think we are focused on our 2024 first.

我的意思是，我認為我們首先關注的是 2024 年。

And for 2024, we are confident on our promise in Q3 wafer demand as they continue to increase.

對於 2024 年，我們對第三季晶圓需求的承諾充滿信心，因為它們將持續成長。

However, we foresee that UMC's customer demand forecast has started to reflect more of a seasonal pattern, where the second half of 2024 wafer shipment will increase relative to the first half.

然而，我們預計聯華電子的客戶需求預測已開始更反映季節性模式，2024 年下半年晶圓出貨量將相對上半年增加。

That's supported by a healthier inventory level with the consumer, communication and computing segment, where the demand in auto remains soft.

這得歸功於消費者、通訊和運算領域更健康的庫存水平，這些領域的汽車需求仍然疲軟。

And we expect to see the mild pickup in communication, consumer and computing segment.

我們預期通訊、消費和計算領域將出現溫和回升。

However, despite the mild recovery in the Q3 2024, we have not seen signs of strong rebound as the customer remain prudent on managing their inventory level.

然而，儘管 2024 年第三季出現溫和復甦，但由於客戶在管理庫存水準方面仍保持謹慎態度，我們尚未看到強勁反彈的跡象。

So customer will continue to be prudent on their inventory management, which that will lead likely -- will probably -- will likely lead to a seasonal Q4.

因此，客戶將繼續謹慎對待庫存管理，這可能會導致第四季度出現季節性。

And then starting from Q1 2025, once the autos' inventory get to a healthier level, we believe that 2025 will get back to normalcy of the industry demand outlook.

然後從2025年第一季開始，一旦汽車庫存恢復到更健康的水平，我們相信2025年產業需求前景將恢復正常。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Also my second question is on how should we think about the structural gross margin?

另外我的第二個問題是我們該如何看待結構性毛利率？

There are some puts and takes.

有一些放和取。

One is on pricing.

一是關於定價。

A couple of your peers mentioned stabilizing dynamics from Q3.

您的一些同行提到了第三季的穩定動態。

Is that what you are expecting for the next couple of quarters?

這是您對接下來幾季的預期嗎？

And then second on depreciation, you have guided depreciation should increase in second half of this year.

其次是折舊，您指導的折舊應該會在今年下半年增加。

But any sense about 2025?

但 2025 年有什麼意義嗎？

Should we still expect like 20% type of increase for your depreciation?

我們是否仍應預期折舊率會增加 20% 左右？

I would assume it could be less because you are delaying the Singapore expansion.

我認為可能會更少，因為你們正在推遲新加坡的擴張。

Then the third maybe on the cost inflation.

第三個可能是關於成本通膨。

Any view on the potential impact going to 2025?

對於 2025 年的潛在影響有何看法？

Now, in terms of the depreciation, this year, we still estimate around 20% year-over-year increase for 2024 over 2023.

現在就折舊而言，今年我們仍然預計2024年將比2023年年增20%左右。

As for 2025, we don't have the final numbers yet.

至於 2025 年，我們還沒有最終數字。

We will report that in the next quarter earnings call.

我們將在下個季度的財報電話會議上報告這一點。

But the magnitude should be similar to that of this year.

但幅度應該跟今年差不多。

In terms of the cost items, we are looking at higher seasonal utility costs in the third quarter.

就成本項目而言，我們預計第三季季節性公用事業成本將會上升。

And our quarterly depreciation is likely -- in terms of the increased rate, third quarter will be the highest, around 10% QoQ increase.

我們的季度折舊很可能——就增幅而言，第三季將是最高的，季增幅約為10%。

So we will continue to work diligently in terms of controlling our cost item.

因此，我們將繼續努力控制我們的成本項目。

Hopefully, through the better efficiency in some of the automation, we will be able to offset the pressures from the increasing cost items.

希望透過提高某些自動化的效率，我們將能夠抵消成本增加所帶來的壓力。

So one way to look at this, we will remain a solid EBITDA margin and we will improve along with higher utilization rate.

因此，從一種角度來看，我們將保持穩定的 EBITDA 利潤率，並且隨著利用率的提高，我們將得到改善。

And we will continue to strengthen our competitiveness and improve product mix to maintain our structural profitability.

我們將持續增強競爭力，改善產品結構，維持結構性獲利能力。

If we go back to the ASP question, UMC's pricing in 2024 has remained consistent and well aligned to our strategy, as you can see.

如果我們回到 ASP 問題，正如您所看到的，聯電 2024 年的定價保持一致，並且與我們的策略非常一致。

We expect pricing will stay competitive as we continually working with the customer to ensure their product offering remain competitive in the marketplace as well.

我們預計價格將保持競爭力，因為我們不斷與客戶合作，確保他們的產品在市場上也保持競爭力。

It's our belief that elevating our customers' product competitiveness will help customers to win more market share.

我們相信，提升客戶的產品競爭力將有助於客戶贏得更多的市場份額。

So our pricing strategy has remained consistent and aligned to the value proposition that UMC offers, which includes stay competitive and resilient against the market dynamics such as the capacity situation, technology solution, customer partnership and manufacturing performance.

因此，我們的定價策略保持一致，並與聯華電子提供的價值主張保持一致，其中包括保持競爭力和適應市場動態的能力，例如產能狀況、技術解決方案、客戶合作夥伴關係和製造績效。

So we're constantly managing our pricing strategy, but we remain fairly consistent with our current strategy.

因此，我們不斷管理我們的定價策略，但我們仍然與當前策略保持相當一致。

Thank you.

謝謝。

One quick follow-up on your Singapore 12-inch expansion.

關於新加坡 12 英寸擴展的快速跟進。

Any update you could share with us in terms of the ramp-up schedule?

您可以與我們分享任何有關啟動時間表的更新嗎？

For the P3, the schedule has not changed.

P3 賽程表沒有改變。

We expect the P3 ramp will reflect in our -- I mean, in the -- we project the 12 P3 production will start in January '26, and the ramp up to high volume starting from the second half of 2026.

我們預計 P3 的產量成長將反映在我們的——我的意思是，我們預計 12 輛 P3 的生產將於 26 年 1 月開始，並從 2026 年下半年開始增加到高產量。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

戈庫爾·哈里哈蘭，摩根大通。

Yeah.

是的。

Hi.

你好。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您提出我的問題。

So first of all, I just wanted to get into the gross margins, which have come in slightly better than -- or significantly better than your original guidance in Q2, and Q3 also looks like you're kind of holding a mid-30s level even with the cost increases.

首先，我只想了解毛利率，毛利率略好於或明顯好於您在第二季度的原始指導，而第三季度看起來也保持在 30 多歲左右的水平即使成本增加。

So I just wanted to understand what is going into this gross margin kind of getting back from the, let's say, 30% levels to 35% levels recently, even with a lot of the cost pressures.

因此，我只是想了解，即使面臨很大的成本壓力，毛利率最近也會從 30% 的水平恢復到 35% 的水平。

Just wanted to understand anything specific that you're doing to kind of get the gross margins moving up.

只是想了解您為提高毛利率而採取的具體措施。

And should we expect that as the depreciation ramp continues, we can hold this level?

我們是否應該期望隨著貶值的持續，我們能夠保持這個水平？

Or we think that this level, they'll kind of drop back to the early 30s levels that we had in Q4 last year and Q1 of this year?

或者我們認為這個水準會回落到去年第四季和今年第一季的 30 出頭水準？

I mean, yeah, Chi-Tung kind of touch that a little bit earlier.

我的意思是，是的，Chi-Tung 早些時候就提到過這一點。

For the Q2 gross margin, I have to say it's mainly coming from the favorable foreign exchange rate movement that contributed to a better than guided gross margin result.

對於第二季的毛利率，我不得不說，這主要來自有利的匯率變動，這使得毛利率結果好於指引值。

For Q3, while the utilization has increased a little bit, but the gross margin actually remains at the mid-30% range.

第三季度，雖然利用率略有上升，但毛利率實際上仍維持在30%左右的區間。

It's really because the decrease -- in Q3, the rise in depreciation expense from the capacity expansion of the 12A P6 and the 12i P3 along with some seasonality utility rate, and that will be considered for our Q3 gross margin guidance.

這實際上是因為第三季的下降、12A P6 和 12i P3 產能擴張導致的折舊費用上升以及一些季節性公用事業率的增加，我們的第三季毛利率指導將考慮這一點。

However, like Chi-Tung mentioned earlier, we foresee our EBITDA margin will remain firm relative to the Q2 2024.

然而，正如 Chi-Tung 之前提到的那樣，我們預計 EBITDA 利潤率相對 2024 年第二季將保持堅挺。

Got it.

知道了。

And Jason, on the pricing side, just looking at it 12-inch versus 8-inch, are you seeing any noticeable differences in terms of pricing tendencies?

Jason，在定價方面，只看 12 英寸和 8 英寸，您是否發現定價趨勢有任何明顯差異？

And also for your 8-inch business, do you feel that 8-inch can ever get back to the 90%, 95% utilizations that we used to have?

還有你們的8吋業務，你們覺得8吋的利用率還能恢復到以前90%、95%的水準嗎？

Or you see that this is a point in time where 8-inch eventually has to migrate to something else, and a lot of the core logic kind of business and even some of the analog power management business eventually migrates down to 12-inch given that there's a lot of capacity coming online?

或者您會看到，這是一個 8 英寸最終必須遷移到其他產品的時間點，並且許多核心邏輯業務，甚至一些模擬電源管理業務最終都會遷移到 12 英寸。

Okay.

好的。

Well, I mean, on the ASP, the -- while we -- while our ASP remains firm, from -- the like-to-like pricing will remain unchanged.

嗯，我的意思是，在平均售價方面，雖然我們的平均售價保持堅挺，但同類定價將保持不變。

However, the blended ASP will reflect the change in product mix as well as the 8-inch and 12-inch composition.

然而，混合ASP將反映產品結構以及8英吋和12英吋組成的變化。

So I think that's on the ASP front.

所以我認為這是在 ASP 方面。

So at this point, for the second half, we remain firm on our pricing, okay?

因此，在這一點上，下半年我們的定價保持不變，好嗎？

For the 8-inch business outlook, the 8-inch loading in Q2 actually improved a little bit because the power management IC, you mentioned, in the computing application, we foresee that the Q3 will further increase a little bit driven by the embedded non-volatile memory demand for auto, server-related application.

對於8英寸的業務前景，Q2的8英寸負載實際上有所改善，因為電源管理IC，你提到的，在計算應用中，我們預計Q3將在嵌入式非驅動的推動下進一步增加一點。汽車、伺服器相關應用程式的揮發性記憶體需求。

However, like you said, can we ever get back to 95% level?

然而，就像你說的，我們能回到95%的水平嗎？

We certainly hope so.

我們當然希望如此。

However, we anticipate continuous pressure from some of the 12-inch mature node fab, like you said, and that has impacted 8-inch's supply chain.

然而，正如您所說，我們預計來自一些12英寸成熟節點晶圓廠的持續壓力，這已經影響了8英寸的供應鏈。

While certain mainstream application will remain -- while that certain mainstream application will remain on the 8-inch node, we -- what we currently do is we have identified a number of additional project opportunity with our key customers to gradually lift our 8-inch loading.

While certain mainstream application will remain -- while that certain mainstream application will remain on the 8-inch node, we -- what we currently do is we have identified a number of additional project opportunity with our key customers to gradually lift our 8-inch載入中.

So I think from a goal-wise, we are not giving up yet.

所以我認為從目標角度來看，我們還沒有放棄。

I think that 95% is still our goal.

我認為95%仍然是我們的目標。

But from the timing-wise, we'll probably take some time to gradually lift to that level.

但從時間上來看，我們可能需要一些時間才能逐漸提升到這個水平。

And so we'll continue -- we're going to continue our efforts by doing so, and we can update you accordingly.

因此，我們將繼續——我們將繼續努力這樣做，並且我們可以向您通報相應的最新情況。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks, Jason.

謝謝，傑森。

And maybe one last question from me.

也許還有我的最後一個問題。

Your -- the interposer for some of the AI-related 2.5D packaging products, what percentage of the revenues have they given that you called it out in your prepared remarks?

您的一些與人工智慧相關的 2.5D 封裝產品的中介層，您在準備好的發言中提到的收入佔其收入的百分比是多少？

And is there any further capacity expansion plan for you beyond, I think, the 6,000 that you mentioned a few quarters back?

我認為，除了您幾季前提到的 6,000 座產能之外，您是否還有進一步的產能擴張計畫？

Well, we -- first of all, we already -- we have already doubled our interposer capacity to 6,000, as we reported previously, in response to an incremental demand at the beginning of 2024.

嗯，首先，我們已經將中介層產能增加了一倍，達到 6,000 個，正如我們之前報導的那樣，以應對 2024 年初增量需求。

For any additional interposer capacity expansion will be assessed based on customer alignment.

對於任何額外的中介層產能擴展，將根據客戶的情況進行評估。

So we follow up with our customers closely, and if there is additional incremental requirement, then we will consider.

所以我們會密切跟進客戶，如果有額外的增量需求，我們會考慮。

But at this point, the alignment is at 6,000, yeah.

但此時，對齊值是 6,000，是的。

And any thoughts on the revenue contribution from this business?

對這項業務的收入貢獻有何想法？

Is it like 4%, 5% of your revenue already?

已經是你收入的 4%、5% 了嗎？

Or is it much more than that?

還是還不止於此？

I don't think we have a breakdown on that with me right now, but it's not a significant revenue from that.

我認為我們現在還沒有對此進行詳細分析，但這並不是一個可觀的收入。

But I think your estimate is about right.

但我認為你的估計是正確的。

It's actually less than 4%-5%.

實際上不到4%-5%。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

盧小龍，高盛。

Jason, this is Bruce.

傑森，這是布魯斯。

I want to ask about the -- regarding to the Vanguard, who has built a capacity with their customer for 12-inch in Singapore.

我想問一下有關 Vanguard 的問題，該公司已在新加坡與客戶建立了 12 吋產能。

It seems to me that they have a lot of customers who are signing up for the capacity in the future.

在我看來，他們有很多客戶正在簽約未來的產能。

So I want to know what do we miss here?

所以我想知道我們在這裡錯過了什麼？

I mean what's the reason why UMC didn't get this business?

我的意思是聯電沒有拿到這個業務的原因是什麼？

UMC has the legacy capacity in Singapore.

聯華電子在新加坡擁有傳統產能。

UMC has the TSMC-like process.

聯電擁有類似台積電的製程。

And obviously, you don't have the -- you have the existing capacity, which doesn't really require a customer to prepay for any additional wafer price hike.

顯然，你沒有——你有現有的產能，這實際上並不要求客戶為任何額外的晶圓價格上漲預付費用。

I mean what do we miss here?

我的意思是我們在這裡想念什麼？

I mean any possibility we can win back business or get the future business away from our competition?

我的意思是我們是否有可能贏回業務或從我們的競爭對手中獲得未來的業務？

Well, I mean, thank you, Bruce.

嗯，我的意思是，謝謝你，布魯斯。

I think there's a few things.

我認為有幾件事。

One is, obviously, we don't comment on our competitors, and they must have their reason by doing the capacity expansion.

一是，顯然我們不會評論我們的競爭對手，他們擴張產能肯定有他們的理由。

We actually feel very comfortable with our capacity situation in terms of 12-inch mature node, which is -- that's what you're referring to.

實際上，我們對 12 英寸成熟節點的產能狀況感到非常滿意，這就是您所指的。

Despite -- in the recent quarter, the 40 and 65 revenues has declined a little bit quarter-over-quarter due to the customer ongoing correction within the automotive and industrial segment.

儘管在最近一個季度，由於汽車和工業領域客戶的持續調整，40 和 65 的收入環比略有下降。

But we do expect the 40-nanometer and 65-nanometer business will grow essentially in Q3, driven by higher demand in auto and computing applications.

但我們確實預計，在汽車和運算應用需求增加的推動下，40奈米和65奈米業務將在第三季大幅成長。

Longer term, we expect to grow in our 40 and 65 product pipeline based on the specialty and the larger technology such as non-volatile memory, RF SOI, BCD, OLED display, and ISP.

從長遠來看，我們預計基於非揮發性記憶體、RF SOI、BCD、OLED 顯示器和 ISP 等專業和更大規模的技術，我們的 40 和 65 個產品線將成長。

So our offering is very broad.

所以我們的產品非常廣泛。

And I think our solutions are competitive.

我認為我們的解決方案具有競爭力。

So if we come back to look at this thing fundamentally, without commenting about our competitors' customer base, I think -- besides who you have mentioned, we have seen more regional mature capacity buildup, driven by increasing importance of the semiconductor industry in addition to the geopolitical tension.

因此，如果我們回過頭來從根本上審視這個問題，而不對我們競爭對手的客戶群進行評論，我認為，除了您提到的客戶群之外，我們還看到了更多區域成熟的產能建設，這是由半導體行業日益重要的推動的地緣政治緊張局勢。

It's our view that this is a change in the competitive landscape.

我們認為這是競爭格局的改變。

So that's the three things that I'd like to say in order to stay competitive.

為了保持競爭力，這就是我想說的三件事。

And first of all, we need to stay competitive so that we're working closely with our customers to provide competitive and comprehensive specialty technology with a continuous no migration path.

首先，我們需要保持競爭力，以便我們與客戶密切合作，提供具有競爭力和全面的專業技術，並且具有連續的無遷移路徑。

That's coming from our customer as well as the new customer.

這來自我們的客戶以及新客戶。

Secondly, we are one of a few foundries that have economic scale and highly efficient operations across all our fabs, whether it's in Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, or China, with a technology offering that could pose a -- the prospect to serve our -- according to our -- the prospect to serve our customers' sourcing needs.

其次，我們是少數幾家在所有晶圓廠（無論是在新加坡、日本、台灣還是中國）都擁有經濟規模和高效運營的代工廠之一，所提供的技術可能會帶來——服務我們的——的前景。

Going forward, we'll continue to invest where we have strength and differentiation through capacity expansion at 12i in Singapore as well as our 12-nanometer collaboration with a US partner to fuel our future growth.

展望未來，我們將透過新加坡 12i 的產能擴張以及與美國合作夥伴的 12 奈米合作，繼續在我們擁有優勢和差異化的領域進行投資，以推動我們未來的成長。

So I don't think we're missing anything.

所以我認為我們沒有遺漏任何東西。

I think that within our addressable market, we focus on our customer engagement and continue delivering our solution and make sure that we can grow with our customer together.

我認為，在我們的目標市場中，我們專注於客戶參與並持續提供我們的解決方案，並確保我們能夠與客戶一起成長。

So in a way, I won't comment that there is something that we're missing here.

因此，在某種程度上，我不會評論我們在這裡遺漏了一些東西。

I think the -- I think we have an adequate solution to serve our customer right, yeah.

我認為——我認為我們有一個足夠的解決方案來為我們的客戶提供正確的服務，是的。

Okay, I'm not trying to be critical, but the thing is that your customer seems the choice to choose the competition, while we believe -- actually, as far we can see that you can have a better cost structure, you have the better process.

好吧，我並不是想批評，但問題是，你的客戶似乎是選擇競爭的選擇，而我們相信——實際上，據我們所知，你可以擁有更好的成本結構，你可以更好的過程。

You have -- it seems to me you have pretty much everything you need.

在我看來，你幾乎擁有了你所需要的一切。

So I'm just wondering that what does the customer think.

所以我只是想知道客戶的想法如何。

I mean, how can we prevent that?

我的意思是，我們怎麼能防止這種情況發生？

I mean, I agree with you.

我的意思是，我同意你的觀點。

I do think we have a much complete and comprehensive solution, and I think we have a much cost-effective solution as well.

我確實認為我們有一個非常完整和全面的解決方案，而且我認為我們也有一個非常具有成本效益的解決方案。

And the operation is a lot more efficient and with scale as well.

而且營運效率更高，規模也更大。

And so I agree with you.

所以我同意你的觀點。

But there are multiple considerations for customer engagement.

但客戶參與有多種考慮因素。

And there's reasons beyond that we both look at us and that's what we just discussed.

除了我們雙方都在審視我們之外，還有其他原因，這就是我們剛才討論的。

So I think there's a different reason behind it.

所以我認為背後有不同的原因。

And I really can't comment about our competitors as well as our customer, but I can assure you that we'll continue to strive to improve and enhance our competitiveness and then we continue maintaining and gaining our market shares in those places.

我真的無法對我們的競爭對手和客戶發表評論，但我可以向您保證，我們將繼續努力改善和增強我們的競爭力，然後我們將繼續保持並獲得我們在這些地方的市場份額。

Okay.

好的。

So my second question is regarding to the technology requirement for the display driver IC, which is an important part for your 28-nanometer.

所以我的第二個問題是關於顯示驅動IC的技術要求，這是28奈米的重要組成部分。

Do we really need to migrate to 14-nanometers or 12-nanometers?

我們真的需要遷移到 14 奈米或 12 奈米嗎？

And when do we expect to see that?

我們預計什麼時候會看到這一點？

Is the partnership with Intel, the timing is available or is really is good enough for -- to catch up the trend?

與英特爾的合作、時機是否成熟，或者是否真的足以趕上這一趨勢？

Well, it's a couple of questions you have.

嗯，這是你的幾個問題。

Actually, the 12-nanometer cooperation is not only limited with the high-voltage solution.

實際上，12奈米的配合不僅限於高壓方案。

So if, from a technology development standpoint, our technology advancement into a next-generation node has never slowed down.

因此，如果從技術發展的角度來看，我們向下一代節點的技術進步從未放緩。

And we are considering a disciplined ROI capacity deployment.

我們正在考慮嚴格的 ROI 容量部署。

However, from a technology development standpoint, we will continue.

不過，從技術發展的角度來看，我們會繼續下去。

For the high voltage, in fact, we already have delivered 22-nanometer solution to help our customer migrating from 28-nanometer for high-end OLED display in the premium smart phone space.

事實上，對於高電壓，我們已經提供了 22 奈米解決方案，幫助我們的客戶從 28 奈米遷移到高階智慧型手機領域的高階 OLED 顯示器。

The 22-nanometer has already entered production now, and we have -- we are expected, we will reach high-volume production in 2025.

22 奈米現已投入生產，預計我們將在 2025 年實現大量生產。

And we are very confident that we'll maintain high shares in this market.

我們非常有信心在這個市場上保持較高的份額。

Now, UMC is the only technology provider on the 22-nanometer, which offer more competitive die area and unmatched power saving around 30%.

現在，聯華電子是唯一 22 奈米技術供應商，該技術提供更具競爭力的晶片面積以及無與倫比的約 30% 的節能效果。

And so, the UMC's 22-nanometer high-voltage platform extend battery life and offer superior visual experience.

因此，聯華電子的 22 奈米高壓平台可延長電池壽命並提供卓越的視覺體驗。

So we also provide sizable capacity offering in 22-nanometer.

因此，我們也提供相當大容量的 22 奈米產品。

And that has into all our fabs, like I said earlier, this will actually strengthen our customer supply chain.

正如我之前所說，這已經滲透到我們所有的晶圓廠，這實際上將加強我們的客戶供應鏈。

We see it in beyond 22-nanometer into your question about the FinFET.

我們在您關於 FinFET 的問題中看到了超過 22 奈米的問題。

Our engineering development team are working on further expanding our high-voltage portfolio to the thing that we are anticipating the AI smart phone.

我們的工程開發團隊正在努力將我們的高壓產品組合進一步擴展到我們預期的人工智慧智慧型手機。

Now, is there a benefit to the FinFET?

現在，FinFET 有好處嗎？

We certainly think so.

我們當然這麼認為。

And at this point, I think the 22-nanometer is the best-in-class right now and 14-nanometer is under development.

在這一點上，我認為 22 奈米是目前同類中最好的，14 奈米正在開發中。

I mean the FinFETs under development.

我指的是正在開發的 FinFET。

Now if we -- besides the high-voltage on the 12-nanometers, the 12-nanometer program, we can serve many different applications and giving after since our announcement of the cooperation, we have received numerous increase from various industry-leading players.

現在，如果我們——除了12奈米上的高壓、12奈米方案之外，我們還可以服務許多不同的應用，自從我們宣布合作以來，我們已經收到了來自各個行業領先企業的大量增長。

And according to the earlier evaluation feedback from those customers, our 12-nanometer's performance will be very competitive in the industry to serve different applications.

而且根據這些客戶先前的評測回饋，我們12奈米的性能在業界將非常有競爭力，可以服務不同的應用。

So it's not only limited at the high-voltage space.

因此它不僅限於高壓空間。

A very quick follow-up.

非常快速的跟進。

Do you expect the display driver IC to above FinFET in 2026?

您預計 2026 年顯示驅動 IC 會超越 FinFET 嗎？

2026?

2026？

I think that's a bit early.

我認為這有點早了。

I think there is the 22-nanometer will probably still remain as the main strength.

我認為22奈米可能仍將是主要優勢。

I see.

我懂了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

陳查理，摩根士丹利。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Jason, Chi-Tung, good afternoon.

傑森、志東，午安。

And congrats for very good results, both the margin and the revenue surprise of that size, especially, I think most of your peers commented that outside of AI, the cycle recovery remains to be very slow.

恭喜取得了非常好的結果，無論是利潤率還是收入都達到瞭如此規模的驚喜，特別是，我認為大多數同行都評論說，在人工智慧之外，週期恢復仍然非常緩慢。

So a very, very good execution.

所以這是一個非常非常好的執行。

And I still want to follow a little bit on the gross margin question.

我仍然想稍微關註一下毛利率問題。

So maybe first to Chi-Tung because according to my calculation, any dollar depreciation may be 3 percentage points over the past quarter.

所以也許首先是 Chi-Tung，因為根據我的計算，過去一個季度美元貶值可能是 3 個百分點。

So contribution to gross margin could be 1 percentage point.

因此對毛利率的貢獻可能是1個百分點。

But you were saying that the 2Q gross margin beat mainly coming from the FX?

但您是說第二季的毛利率主要來自外匯？

So do we miss anything on that comment?

那麼我們是否錯過了該評論的任何內容？

So roughly every 1% of TWD depreciation will lead to about 0.4% of the margin increase.

因此，大約新台幣每貶值 1%，就會帶來約 0.4% 的保證金增加。

So 3% Forex movement translate into about 1.2 percentage points, 1.3 percentage points for quarter two.

因此，3% 的外匯變動相當於第二季約 1.2 個百分點、1.3 個百分點。

And of course, there's some minor items including the utility increase.

當然，還有一些小項目，包括效用的增加。

Our previous forecast was slightly higher than the actual adjustment rate.

我們先前的預測略高於實際調整幅度。

But I think again, ForEx is still the main factors for the 35.2% gross margin versus our guidance of 30-ish gross margin.

但我再次認為，外匯仍然是 35.2% 毛利率的主要因素，而我們的毛利率指引為 30% 左右。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Yeah, that's clear.

是的，那很清楚。

So maybe next question to Jason.

那也許下一個問題要問傑森。

I mean, we heard you about you can be flexible on pricing, you want to cut us to stay competitive, right?

我的意思是，我們聽說你們可以靈活定價，你們想削減我們的開支以保持競爭力，對嗎？

So I was assuming that probably there will be some ASP erosion.

所以我假設 ASP 可能會受到一些侵蝕。

But in return, you can get some business opportunity.

但作為回報，你可以獲得一些商業機會。

But it turns out that your pricing is firm, but your revenues still grow nicely in third quarter.

但事實證明，你們的定價很堅挺，但第三季的營收仍然成長良好。

So again, what did we miss?

那麼，我們又錯過了什麼？

Are we too conservative on the end demand?

我們對最終需求是否過於保守？

Or what are we missing?

或者說我們還缺什麼？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, I mean, first of all, from the -- like you said, the like-to-like pricing remain unchanged, but the blended ASP reflects the change in product mix between 8-inch and 12-inch as well, mainly because we -- that's aligned to the end market.

嗯，我的意思是，首先，正如您所說，同類定價保持不變，但混合 ASP 也反映了 8 英寸和 12 英寸之間產品組合的變化，主要是因為我們——這與終端市場保持一致。

We do see some of the -- some of the segments have exiting the inventory correction cycle.

我們確實看到一些——一些細分市場已經退出庫存調整週期。

So some of the restocking, the demand is actually coming back.

因此，一些補貨，需求實際上正在回升。

While we actually stay away from a commodity market segment.

雖然我們實際上遠離商品細分市場。

So I think we've been -- we try to manage this -- try to balance this portfolio as well as the product mix diligently.

所以我認為我們一直在努力平衡這個投資組合以及產品組合。

I think that's more of a result of that.

我認為這更多是一個結果。

But in addition to that, I also believe you have to say fundamentally competitive by offering the differentiated technology solutions.

但除此之外，我還認為，透過提供差異化的技術解決方案，你必須說具有根本的競爭力。

We're going to continue to advance that and from continued expanding our specialty technology and space and hopefully that we can continue maintaining that.

我們將繼續推進這一點，並不斷擴大我們的專業技術和空間，並希望我們能夠繼續保持這一點。

Now, if it comes down to if we do need to elevating our customer, you know, for their product to be competitive in their market space and helping them to win more market share, we certainly will address that.

現在，如果歸結為我們是否確實需要提升我們的客戶，讓他們的產品在市場空間中具有競爭力並幫助他們贏得更多的市場份額，我們當然會解決這個問題。

And our angle is we try to -- creating a win-win scenario to benefit both sides in the long run.

我們的角度是，我們試圖創造一個雙贏的局面，從長遠來看使雙方受益。

I see.

我懂了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

And maybe -- maybe on that interposer side because my understanding is that the end customer is probably migrating to the next-generation AI GPU and the interposer design may change.

也許——也許是在中介層方面，因為我的理解是，最終客戶可能正在遷移到下一代 AI GPU，而中介層設計可能會改變。

So I am a bit concerned whether you found about whether you can maintain the interposer capacity?

所以我有點在乎你是否發現你是否可以維持中介層的能力？

I'm concerned that interposer business may go away, maybe one year or two years.

我擔心中介層業務可能會消失，也許一年或兩年。

Is that a fair concern?

這是一個合理的擔憂嗎？

Sure.

當然。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

I mean, just like any other technology, the product will continue migrating into the next generation.

我的意思是，就像任何其他技術一樣，該產品將繼續遷移到下一代。

But at the same time, like any other I think on capacity on different technology nodes, there's also another product pipeline is coming into that.

但同時，就像我認為的不同技術節點的能力一樣，還有另一個產品管道正在進入其中。

So the product pipeline management is the key.

所以產品管道管理是關鍵。

We continue engaging a new product coming into the existing capacity.

我們持續在現有產能中投入新產品。

And while some of the existing product may migrate into the next generation.

雖然某些現有產品可能會遷移到下一代產品。

However, our 3D IC roadmap, in addition to interposer that which we will engage in the pipeline, we're also developing the wafer-to-wafer hybrid bonding, which that we have announced in the past quarter.

然而，我們的 3D IC 路線圖，除了我們將參與管道的中介層之外，我們還在開發晶圓到晶圓混合鍵合，這是我們在上個季度宣布的。

So the way we view this is the 3D IC solution offers the advantage, including form factor reduction, higher bandwidth and lower power consumption.

因此，我們認為 3D IC 解決方案具有優勢，包括縮小尺寸、提高頻寬和降低功耗。

So not only on interposer, we also want to expanding our offering in that front.

因此，不僅在中介層上，我們還希望擴展我們在這方面的產品。

We are the first foundry that with wafer-to-wafer bonding solution for the RF SOI that are production ready today.

我們是第一家為 RF SOI 提供晶圓間鍵結解決方案的代工廠，現已投入生產。

And our second RF SOI wafer solution is able to achieve an impressive 45% form factor reduction.

我們的第二個 RF SOI 晶圓解決方案能夠將外形尺寸減少 45%，令人印象深刻。

And even beyond the form factor reduction, our high-bandwidth hybrid bonding solution can also cover memory and ASIC with our qualified IP foundations that will make our offering well positioned to address the increasing needs of the inference engine of the various edge AI applications in the future.

即使除了縮小外形尺寸之外，我們的高頻寬混合綁定解決方案還可以透過我們合格的IP 基礎覆蓋記憶體和ASIC，這將使我們的產品能夠很好地滿足各種邊緣人工智慧應用的推理引擎日益增長的需求。

At the moment, we are working closely with AI-focused customer on tailored solution to meet their specific needs in a various combination of our hybrid bonding technologies.

目前，我們正在與專注於人工智慧的客戶密切合作，開發客製化解決方案，以滿足他們對我們混合鍵合技術的各種組合的特定需求。

In summary, we are confident that the interposer hybrid bonding has a great potential, and we are committed to continue to invest in R&D to ensure we can serve our customers as best we can.

總而言之，我們相信中介層混合鍵結具有巨大的潛力，我們致力於繼續投資於研發，以確保我們能夠盡力為客戶服務。

Understood.

明白了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And last one -- I'm not sure if I missed it, but about your 12-nanometer partnership with Intel.

最後一個 - 我不確定我是否錯過了它，但關於您與英特爾的 12 奈米合作夥伴關係。

One is that, I wanted to know about the progress and maybe whether the timing can be ahead?

一是我想了解進展狀況，也許時間可以提早嗎？

And as you also see that Intel is changing their foundry business leadership, do you think they will change or service your partnership with Intel?

正如您也看到英特爾正在改變其代工業務領導地位一樣，您認為他們會改變或服務於您與英特爾的合作夥伴關係嗎？

Well, I mean, first, the 12-nanometer cooperation with Intel has been on track for mass production in 2027.

嗯，我的意思是，第一，與英特爾合作的12奈米已經步入2027年量產的軌道。

And that project is very much on track and progressing well.

該項目已步入正軌並且進展順利。

And from a schedule-wise, right now, we are working diligently with our partners and as well as the key customers to further accelerate the schedule.

從進度來看，目前我們正在與合作夥伴以及主要客戶一起努力，進一步加快進度。

Overall, we are cautiously optimistic about the progress and we'll update accordingly.

總體而言，我們對進展持謹慎樂觀態度，我們將相應更新。

So I actually feel very good about the current progress.

所以我其實對目前的進展感覺非常好。

Now, in terms of the leadership question, and the project itself is -- I consider progressing well.

現在，就領導力問題以及專案本身而言——我認為進展順利。

And I think the leadership will continue to view that as the same.

我認為領導階層將繼續認為這一點是一樣的。

So I think the objective of this cooperation has not changed.

所以我認為這次合作的目標沒有改變。

The goal remains the same.

目標不變。

And our current focus is to deliver a very competitive solution for the mass production in the 12-nanometer sort of cooperation.

我們目前的重點是在12奈米合作中為量產提供非常有競爭力的解決方案。

Thank you, Jason.

謝謝你，傑森。

So very, very last one.

非常非常最後一張。

Because I am still a little bit still surprised by to the upside by your third quarter revenue guidance, right.

因為我仍然對你們第三季營收指引的上升感到有點驚訝，對吧。

Because your -- one of your major customer, MediaTek, their second quarter inventory days actually went up to 72 days, right?

因為你的——你的主要客戶之一聯發科，他們第二季度的庫存天數實際上達到了 72 天，對嗎？

1Q it was 66 days.

第一季是 66 天。

So first of all, inventory base start to go up again.

首先，庫存基數開始再次上升。

And they are guiding their third quarter revenue to be flat, right?

他們預計第三季營收將持平，對嗎？

So I'm just wondering why you can outgrow the market, especially customers inventory data go out again?

所以我只是想知道為什麼你可以超越市場，特別是客戶庫存數據再次消失？

Sorry, if we keep coming back to this inventory or second question.

抱歉，如果我們繼續回到這個清單或第二個問題。

I mean, first of all, I mean, we see a continuous inventory improvement across all segments.

我的意思是，首先，我們看到所有細分市場的庫存都在持續改善。

And some of the customers may have been a little bit of tying up.

有些客戶可能有點陷入困境。

And the -- basically all segments have improved their inventory level, and we have seen that.

基本上所有細分市場都提高了庫存水平，我們已經看到了這一點。

And we expect to see the inventory will reach a relatively healthy by end of this year.

我們預計到今年年底庫存將達到相對健康的水平。

And so that's also we guided that the customer was still cautious -- have a cautious of approach to their inventory management based on the current market outlook.

因此，我們也認為客戶仍然保持謹慎態度——根據當前的市場前景，對其庫存管理採取謹慎的態度。

However, for the automotive segment, the end market demand outlook for the automotive ones still remains very soft compared to other segments.

然而，對於汽車領域而言，與其他領域相比，汽車終端市場需求前景仍然非常疲軟。

And the inventory level has improved, but the base of inventory is still above the seasonal level.

庫存水準有所改善，但庫存基數仍高於季節性水準。

So I think the -- besides the auto, the rest of the market segment will probably start experiencing some of the seasonality patterns.

所以我認為，除了汽車之外，其他細分市場可能會開始經歷一些季節性模式。

So I feel from an inventory correction point, we should have already activate it for those communication, consumer and computing.

所以我覺得從庫存修正的角度來看，我們應該已經為通訊、消費者和計算啟動它。

So in that case, do you change your industry assumption this time for ex-memory and also foundry?

那麼，在這種情況下，您這次會改變對前記憶體和代工廠的行業假設嗎？

You are talking about our addressable market outlook?

您是在談論我們可尋址的市場前景嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Do you revise that this time?

這次你修改一下嗎？

Last time we talked about our UMC addressable margin will remain flattish.

上次我們談到聯華電子的可尋址利潤率將保持穩定。

Yes.

是的。

And our outlook has not changed.

我們的前景沒有改變。

And our projection still shows the UMC addressable market will remain flattish in 2024.

我們的預測仍然顯示，聯電潛在市場到 2024 年將保持穩定。

And our goal is we expect to outperform our addressable market in 2024, as some of our customers have adapted our solution and ramping and gaining market share for the second half.

我們的目標是，預計到 2024 年我們的表現將超越我們的目標市場，因為我們的一些客戶已經採用了我們的解決方案，並在下半年擴大並獲得了市場份額。

I see.

我懂了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

It's super helpful.

這非常有幫助。

Thanks guys.

多謝你們。

Laura Chen, Citi.

勞拉陳，花旗銀行。

Thank you very much for taking my questions.

非常感謝您回答我的問題。

I also have a follow-up questions in terms of the end demand.

關於最終需求，我還有一個後續問題。

As Jason, you mentioned that you see the relatively strong order for computing and also communication.

正如傑森（Jason），您提到您看到計算和通訊的秩序相對較強。

But some of your competitors, they mentioned that they just kind of rush order.

但你的一些競爭對手提到，他們只是緊急訂單。

So I'm wondering that is the order visibility can be sustainable into Q4 from your perspective?

所以我想知道從您的角度來看，訂單可見度可以持續到第四季嗎？

Well, I hope if I mislead you, I'm sorry about that, but Laura, what I said is we expect to see a mild pickup in communication, consumer and computing segment.

好吧，我希望如果我誤導了你，我對此感到抱歉，但是勞拉，我所說的是我們預計通訊、消費者和計算領域將出現溫和回升。

And despite the -- however, despite a mild recovery in Q3, we have not seen the sign of a strong rebound as the customer remain prudent on managing their inventory level.

儘管第三季出現溫和復甦，但我們尚未看到強勁反彈的跡象，因為客戶在管理庫存水準方面仍保持謹慎態度。

So I think on the some of the market segments such as communication, consumer and computing area, I think we are in the process of accessing the inventory correction cycle by end of this year.

因此，我認為在通訊、消費者和計算領域等一些細分市場上，我認為我們將在今年年底前進入庫存修正週期。

And while the automotive will probably exiting by Q1 next year.

而汽車業可能會在明年第一季退出。

And while we're exiting this and I think the customers remain prudent.

雖然我們正在退出，但我認為客戶仍然保持謹慎。

So, and I think right now the phenomenon is more showing, we are going back to the traditional seasonal pattern on the annually to the seasonal pattern that aligns to the market outlook.

因此，我認為現在這種現象更加明顯，我們正在回到每年的傳統季節性模式，轉向與市場前景相符的季節性模式。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

That's very clear.

這非常清楚。

And also I noted that for our IDMs, that's fine, the revenue declined quite substantially since the peak in Q4 last year.

我還指出，對於我們的 IDM 來說，這很好，自去年第四季的高峰以來，收入大幅下降。

Can we assume that is mainly because of the automotive related or also we are seeing the same trend that for the consumer, computing part that gradually improved, while automotive, industrial, how far the IDMs that could still relatively muted for the next few months?

我們是否可以假設這主要是因為汽車相關，或者我們也看到了同樣的趨勢，即對於消費者而言，計算部分逐漸改善，而汽車、工業方面，IDM 在未來幾個月內仍可能相對平靜到什麼程度？

Well, first of all, you're right.

嗯，首先，你是對的。

Our -- so our IDM customer were also impacted by the global semiconductor downturn across not only communication, automotive, across the consumer, communication, computer and automotive segment.

我們的 IDM 客戶也受到了全球半導體低迷的影響，不僅涉及通訊、汽車領域，還涉及消費、通訊、電腦和汽車領域。

And some of the IDMs and their customer have a pile up inventory, which result in a decline in wafer demand at their foundry supplier.

一些 IDM 及其客戶的庫存堆積，導致其代工供應商的晶圓需求下降。

So I think that 2024 is a year with a complication of inventory correction as well as end market soft.

所以我認為2024年是庫存調整和終端市場疲軟的複雜一年。

So -- however, we anticipate the inventory level will improve and so although at a slower pace again and so longer term, we -- once the inventory corrections over and on the longer term we foresee IDM will continue to rely on foundry partner and their contribution will gradually recover.

因此，然而，我們預計庫存水準將會改善，因此，儘管從長遠來看，庫存水準會再次放緩，但一旦庫存修正，從長遠來看，我們預計 IDM 將繼續依賴代工合作夥伴及其貢獻會逐漸恢復。

Okay.

好的。

Also a follow-up on that because we see some of the IDM, our clients like Texas Instruments, they think they're also aggressively expanding their internal capacity.

還有一個後續行動，因為我們看到一些 IDM，我們的客戶，如德州儀器 (TI)，他們認為自己也在積極擴大其內部產能。

But once their demand getting stabilizing, are we still assuming that they will continue to do like outsourcing before?

但一旦他們的需求穩定下來，我們是否仍然假設他們會繼續像以前那樣做外包？

Or they will tend to insource more internally on your perspective?

或者他們會傾向於從你的角度進行更多的內部採購？

I think after the COVID, after the capacity constraint, there's many different companies that look at their supply chain resilience question.

我認為在新冠疫情之後，在產能限制之後，有許多不同的公司正在考慮他們的供應鏈彈性問題。

So having internal capacity is one of the solution to address that supply chain resilience question, a concern they have.

因此，擁有內部能力是解決供應鏈彈性問題的解決方案之一，這是他們所關心的問題。

And from the foundry partner standpoint, I think that remains very important.

從代工夥伴的角度來看，我認為這仍然非常重要。

I think that will be considered one of the entire supply chain ecosystem.

我認為這將被視為整個供應鏈生態系統之一。

And I think the IDM will continue rely on the foundry partners to an extent.

我認為 IDM 將在一定程度上繼續依賴代工合作夥伴。

However, they will probably balance that a little bit to ensure their supply chain resilience is improved.

然而，他們可能會對此進行一點平衡，以確保提高供應鏈的彈性。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And also, hopefully you can give me more understanding about the PDIC business model.

另外，希望您能讓我對 PDIC 的商業模式有更多的了解。

We know that a lot of advanced packaging or wafer base done by on the wafer foundry side.

我們知道，許多先進封裝或晶圓基礎都是由晶圓代工廠完成的。

But since we are also expanding the PDICs, the hyper bonding type of design.

但由於我們也在擴展 PDIC，即超黏合類型的設計。

Can you elaborate more on how is that business model going with the OSAT and also our competitors or potentially customers?

您能否詳細說明 OSAT 以及我們的競爭對手或潛在客戶的業務模式如何？

Thank you.

謝謝。

It's in our view, the semiconductor foundry OSAT ecosystem remains very important.

我們認為，半導體代工 OSAT 生態系統仍然非常重要。

So I think that's our view.

所以我認為這就是我們的觀點。

So the 3D IC roadmap that we have that require us to working closely with our ecosystem partners and not only on the OSAT also as well as the memory or ASIC on the qualified IP supplier as well.

因此，我們擁有的 3D IC 路線圖要求我們與生態系統合作夥伴密切合作，不僅在 OSAT 上，而且還在合格 IP 供應商的記憶體或 ASIC 上。

So I think the landscape will require us to expanding our ecosystem and to strengthen our partnership with our back end partner as well.

因此，我認為情況將要求我們擴大我們的生態系統，並加強我們與後端合作夥伴的合作關係。

So I think this in our view, this still consider us an ecosystem to serve our customers.

所以我認為在我們看來，這仍然將我們視為一個為客戶服務的生態系統。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Brad Lin, Bank of America.

布拉德林，美國銀行。

Thank you for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

So my first question is I want to follow-up on the interposer capacity thing as we recognize some potential downside eyeing on the, well, potential, well, CoWoS-L or CoWoS-R adoption in the future.

因此，我的第一個問題是，我想跟進中介層容量問題，因為我們認識到未來採用 CoWoS-L 或 CoWoS-R 存在一些潛在的不利因素。

So we explained that we are well, UMC is developing the wafer-to-wafer hybrid bonding, does that mean that this interposer capacity can be fungible and then apply to this kind of 3D IC in the future?

所以我們解釋說我們很好，聯華電子正在開發wafer-to-wafer混合鍵合，這是否意味著這個interposer產能可以互換，然後應用於未來這種3D IC？

No, they are different offering and the interposer capacity will continue serving as the interposer needs.

不，它們是不同的產品，中介層容量將繼續滿足中介層的需求。

And while we have a continued roadmap for the interposer going to the next generation as well.

雖然我們也為下一代中介層制定了持續的路線圖。

And so that technology advancement is not going to stop.

因此，技術進步不會停止。

And at the same time, we'll see more interest coming for the interposer thing.

同時，我們將看到人們對中介層的興趣越來越濃厚。

And I think that we actually engage different application of the continued pipeline for this in the future.

我認為我們將來實際上會為此而參與持續管道的不同應用。

3D IC wafer-to-wafer, hybrid bonding is extension of our advanced packaging offering.

3D IC 晶圓到晶圓混合鍵結是我們先進封裝產品的延伸。

So we'll continue expanding that and we think from our addressable -- for our addressable market, the wafer-to-wafer hybrid bonding will provide us the expansion of the addressable market and I think we are well fitted with our solutions.

因此，我們將繼續擴大這一範圍，我們認為，從我們的潛在市場來看，晶圓到晶圓混合鍵合將為我們提供潛在市場的擴展，我認為我們的解決方案非常適合我們。

Got it.

知道了。

And so, we see we are pretty good potential there on the edge AI from this wafer-to-wafer technology.

因此，我們看到，透過這種晶圓到晶圓技術，我們在邊緣人工智慧方面具有相當大的潛力。

So, what time does UMC expect this contribution to rise and which are the -- well, maybe potential key clients?

那麼，聯華電子預計這項貢獻何時會增加，哪些是──嗯，也許是潛在的關鍵客戶？

In the near-term, we already announced for the RFSOI stacking, it's already ready for production.

近期，我們已經宣布 RFSOI 堆疊已經準備好投入生產。

So on the RF front end, that's already started to production.

因此，在射頻前端，已經開始生產。

And from being related to future AI exposure, I think we kind of touched that last quarter as well.

從與未來人工智慧曝光相關的角度來看，我認為我們上個季度也觸及了這一點。

The AI expense on the cloud to edge, I think it will still take some time.

從雲端到邊緣的AI支出，我認為還需要一段時間。

But it's our belief, the new use cases will inevitably emerge along with the value chain.

但我們相信，新的用例將不可避免地隨著價值鏈的出現而出現。

Right now, we are only seeing the growing number from existing AI, PC, notebook or smartphone that requires silicon content to handle this case.

目前，我們只看到越來越多現有的人工智慧、個人電腦、筆記型電腦或智慧型手機需要矽內容來處理這種情況。

But furthermore, the real opportunity that we believe lies beyond the existing edge device, which is in the new emergent application under the AI megatrends such as the ADAS, autonomous driving, robotics, Industrial 4.0, future breakthroughs, so -- which will drive significant increase of silicon content accordingly.

但此外，我們認為真正的機會超出了現有的邊緣設備，而是在人工智慧大趨勢下的新的新興應用，例如ADAS、自動駕駛、機器人、工業4.0、未來的突破等——這將推動顯著的發展。

And those the technology solution that we offer would definitely be beneficial to that.

我們提供的技術解決方案肯定會對此有益。

And I think the offering that we have not only on interposer 3D IC, wafer-to-wafer also for the other low power BCD number that will also very well suited to meeting those demands in those AI related market.

我認為我們不僅提供中介層 3D IC、晶圓到晶圓的產品，還提供其他低功耗 BCD 數字，也非常適合滿足人工智慧相關市場的需求。

Got it.

知道了。

So that actually quite related to the second question that I want to try to ask here is that well, for the utilization rate, yes, even though we see pretty well good recovery in the second half of the year with more than 70% of the UTR, but we are eyeing on the future.

因此，實際上與我想在這裡問的第二個問題非常相關的是，就利用率而言，是的，儘管我們看到下半年恢復得很好，超過 70% UTR，但我們著眼於未來。

We are definitely not, I mean, the company is definitely not satisfied with only this level.

我們絕對不是，我的意思是，公司肯定不滿足於僅僅這個水平。

So we totally believe that well, UMC already well foresee some of the long-term drivers to kind of potentially leave the UTR meaningfully back to a sustained 80% or 90% in the future?

因此，我們完全相信，UMC 已經預見了一些長期驅動因素，有可能使 UTR 在未來有意義地回到持續的 80% 或 90%？

So I think you also mentioned that some of new device or application might be the ones like robots.

所以我想你也提到了一些新的設備或應用程式可能是像機器人這樣的。

So would you please share with us your visibility on that and also how would that bring you in the well, mid to long run?

那麼，您能與我們分享您對此的看法嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, first of all, we're very, very optimistic about the future semiconductor market.

嗯，首先，我們對未來的半導體市場非常非常樂觀。

The AI is going to be a very big driver.

人工智慧將成為一個非常大的驅動力。

And however, I think so not some of the new use cases will still have -- we have to see them to come.

然而，我認為並不是一些新的用例仍然存在——我們必須看到它們的出現。

And I think this is still a bit early right now.

我認為現在還為時過早。

However, we have very, very high expectation in the longer term.

然而，從長遠來看，我們抱持著非常非常高的期望。

Meanwhile, while we ascertain the inventory correction cycle between end of this year to early next year, I think the market will go back to normalcy.

同時，在我們確定今年年底到明年初的庫存調整週期的同時，我認為市場將恢復正常。

So that means that we're very much is subject to the end market demand.

所以這意味著我們很大程度上受到終端市場需求的影響。

And so, I think for the next year, we have to wait and see how the end market demand goes, because there's still macroeconomics inflation concerns.

因此，我認為明年，我們必須等待，看看終端市場需求如何發展，因為仍然存在宏觀經濟通膨擔憂。

And at this point maybe too early to say how much of a utilization improvement -- utilization rate improvement we will expect.

現在說我們預計利用率會提高多少可能還為時過早。

However, going longer term, I have no doubt the utilization rate will increase.

然而，從長遠來看，我毫不懷疑利用率將會提高。

While we don't have the clear projection on when.

雖然我們沒有明確的預測時間。

So our focus now is we want to continue to sustain our strong financial performance like what we did in the down cycle and as a result of our company resilience.

因此，我們現在的重點是，我們希望繼續保持強勁的財務業績，就像我們在下行週期中所做的那樣，並且由於我們公司的韌性。

This is manifesting patient of our continuous effort in developing a competitive specialty technology offering as well as optimizing our customer base and product portfolio.

這體現了我們在開發有競爭力的專業技術產品以及優化我們的客戶群和產品組合方面不斷努力的耐心。

I hope that the current performance shows that.

我希望目前的表現表明了這一點。

Going forward, we will continue to focus on specialty technology development and our ROI driven capacity expansion to capture the market upturn once they come.

展望未來，我們將繼續專注於專業技術開發和投資報酬率驅動的產能擴張，以抓住市場好轉的機會。

On the specialty technology development, our industrial leading offers, which will broaden our addressable market and enhance our customers' competitiveness like what we have recently announced.

在專業技術開發方面，我們提供領先業界的產品，這將拓寬我們的潛在市場並增強我們客戶的競爭力，就像我們最近宣布的那樣。

And the customers are currently migrating their 28-nanometer products to our 22-nanometer technology.

客戶目前正在將他們的 28 奈米產品遷移到我們的 22 奈米技術。

Customers are also adopting our 12-nanometer thin fab.

客戶也正在採用我們的 12 奈米薄晶圓廠。

For high-voltage product, we expect the 40, 28 high-voltage customer will be adopting the 22 high.

對於高壓產品，我們預期40、28高壓客戶將採用22高壓。

Emerging memory application will transition to 28 and 22.

新興記憶體應用將向28和22過渡。

We are very confident about the 28 and 22 for the longer term.

從長遠來看，我們對 28 和 22 充滿信心。

We also expect to see more interest in the 35, 40 mature area such as RF SOI.

我們也預計對 35、40 成熟領域（例如 RF SOI）會產生更多興趣。

And while we talk about all those from the future capacity expansion plan with our geographically diverse manufacturing footprint, we'll strive for growth through our P3 expansion in Singapore, 12-nanometer partnership in US.

當我們談論未來產能擴張計劃以及我們在不同地理位置的製造足跡時，我們將透過新加坡的 P3 擴張和美國的 12 奈米合作夥伴關係來努力實現成長。

I think we're well positioned for the capture, the future growth of semiconductor needs.

我認為我們已經做好了充分準備，可以抓住半導體需求的未來成長。

And the utilization rate will increase.

而且利用率也會提高。

And meanwhile, I think we just have to wait and navigate through this cycle.

同時，我認為我們只需要等待並度過這個週期。

And I think that's how I feel about the utilization rate projection.

我想這就是我對利用率預測的感受。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

And maybe one last question will be on the -- well, so given the product design lead time, we believe definitely limited visibility into next year, but we believe we are totally engaging with the clients on the potential design or specialty technology adoption or the new node technology that are used in the next year and then well, do we have a confidence -- do we have a good confidence level that the ASP will remain well resilient at least in terms of the blend ASP wise?

也許最後一個問題是——好吧，考慮到產品設計的交付時間，我們相信明年的能見度肯定有限，但我們相信我們正在與客戶就潛在的設計或專業技術的採用或新的節點技術將在明年使用，然後我們是否有信心——我們是否有足夠的信心認為ASP 在混合ASP 方面至少會保持良好的彈性？

I mean, from a pricing strategy point, I mean, we on a higher level, like I said, we believe we have to elevate our customers' competitiveness, right?

我的意思是，從定價策略的角度來看，我的意思是，我們在更高的層面上，就像我說的，我們相信我們必須提高客戶的競爭力，對吧？

And by doing so, that's you have to provide your value proposition, including the technology offering, including the partnership and added with a scale capacity support so on and so forth and the manufacturing performance.

透過這樣做，你必須提供你的價值主張，包括技術產品，包括合作夥伴關係，並添加規模產能支援等等以及製造績效。

So the -- certainly, that will help with the ASP, but the bottom line is we want to stay competitive and we will.

所以——當然，這將有助於提高平均售價，但最重要的是我們希望保持競爭力，而且我們會的。

And I think that's been all along our pricing position as well as strategy for the past year and as well as going forward.

我認為這一直是我們過去一年和未來的定價定位和策略。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thank you, Brad.

謝謝你，布拉德。

And Brad was our last question for today's conference.

布拉德是我們今天會議的最後一個問題。

We thank you for all your questions.

我們感謝您提出的所有問題。

This concludes today's Q&A session.

今天的問答環節到此結束。

I'll turn things over to UMC, Head of IR for closing remarks.

我將把事情轉交給聯華電子 (UMC) IR 主管做總結發言。

Thank you for attending this conference today.

感謝您參加今天的這次會議。

We appreciate your questions.

我們感謝您的提問。

As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir@umc.com. Have a good day.

與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時透過 ir@umc.com 聯絡 UMC。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for second quarter 2024.

女士們、先生們，我們 2024 年第二季的會議到此結束。

Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference.

感謝您參加聯華電子的會議。

There will be a webcast replay within two hours.

兩小時內將進行網路直播重播。

Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors, Events section.

請造訪 www.umc.com 的「投資者」、「活動」部分。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。

Thank you and goodbye.

謝謝，再見。