聯華電子 (UMC) 2020 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome everyone to UMC's 2020 Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call.

歡迎大家參加聯華電子 2020 年第二季度收益電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet.

（操作員說明）供您參考，本次電話會議正在互聯網上進行現場直播。

Webcast replay will be available within an hour after the conference is finished.

網絡直播重播將在會議結束後一小時內提供。

Please visit our website, www.umc.com under the Investor Relations, Investors, Events section.

請訪問我們的網站 www.umc.com 的投資者關係、投資者、活動部分。

And now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of in Relations at UMC.

現在我想介紹聯電的關係主管 Michael Lin 先生。

And Mr. Lin, please begin.

林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to the UMC Conference Call for the Second Quarter of 2020.

謝謝，歡迎參加聯華電子 2020 年第二季度的電話會議。

I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, the President of UMC; and Mr. Qi Dong Liu, the CFO of UMC.

聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生加入了我的行列；聯電首席財務官劉啟東先生。

In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the second quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's focus and the third quarter 2020 guidance.

稍後，我們將聽到我們的首席財務官介紹第二季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁關於聯華電子的重點和 2020 年第三季度指導的關鍵信息。

Once our President and the CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A section.

一旦我們的總裁和首席財務官完成他們的發言，就會有一個問答部分。

UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors, Financial section.

UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的“投資者、財務”部分下獲得。

During this conference, we may make forward-looking statements based on the management's current expectations and beliefs.

在本次會議期間，我們可能會根據管理層當前的預期和信念做出前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond the company's control.

這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。

For these risks, please refer to UMC's filing with the SEC in the U.S. and the ROC security authorities.

對於這些風險，請參閱聯電向美國 SEC 和中華民國安全機構提交的文件。

Now I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Qi Dong Liu, to discuss UMC's second quarter 2020 financial results.

現在我想介紹聯電CFO劉啟東先生，來談談聯電2020年第二季度的財務業績。

Thank you, Michael.

謝謝你，邁克爾。

I would like to go through the 2Q '20 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded from our website.

我想瀏覽一下 2Q '20 投資者會議演示材料，該材料可以從我們的網站下載。

Starting on Page 3, the second quarter of 2Q '20, consolidated revenue was TWD 44.39 billion, with gross margin at 23.1%.

從第 3 頁開始，即 20 年第二季度第二季度，綜合收入為 443.9 億新台幣，毛利率為 23.1%。

The net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 6.68 billion and earnings per ordinary shares were TWD 0.55.

歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為66.8億新台幣，每股普通股收益為0.55新台幣。

Utilization rate in the second quarter improved to 98% from 93% in the previous quarter.

第二季度的利用率從上一季度的 93% 提高到 98%。

On the next page, Page 4, on the quarter-over-quarter comparison, revenue grew 5% to TWD 44.3 billion due to the combination of ASP increase as well as the wafer shipment increase.

在下一頁，第 4 頁，在季度比較中，收入增長 5% 至 443 億新台幣，原因是 ASP 增加以及晶圓出貨量增加。

Gross margin as a result climbed to 23.1% or TWD 10.25 billion, up 26% sequentially.

毛利率因此攀升至 23.1% 或 102.5 億新台幣，環比增長 26%。

All the operating expenses are under control, and therefore, we see OpEx decline slightly by 0.8% quarter-over-quarter.

所有運營費用都在可控範圍內，因此我們認為 OpEx 環比小幅下降 0.8%。

As a result, operating income jumped 71% quarter-over-quarter to TWD 5.8 billion, with the reverse of our nonoperating items from the revaluation of our investments.

因此，營業收入環比增長 71% 至 58 億新台幣，而我們的非經營性項目與我們的投資重估相反。

Our net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent in quarter 2 reached TWD 6.68 billion or 15.1% net income margin.

我們在第二季度歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤達到 66.8 億新台幣或 15.1% 的淨利潤率。

EPS was TWD 0.55 in quarter 2 compared to TWD 0.19 in first quarter of 2020.

第二季度每股收益為 0.55 新台幣，而 2020 年第一季度為 0.19 新台幣。

On Page 5, the first 6 months comparison.

在第 5 頁，前 6 個月的比較。

Revenue increased 26% to TWD 86.6 billion, partially due to the combination of USJC, which contributed around 10% of the earning -- the revenue topline.

收入增長 26% 至 866 億新台幣，部分原因是 USJC 的合併貢獻了約 10% 的收入 - 收入收入。

And gross margin was 21.2% or TWD 18.38 billion.

毛利率為21.2%，即183.8億新台幣。

And net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 8.888 million in first half -- first 6 months of 2020, and EPS is TWD 0.74 for the first 2 quarters of the year.

2020年前6個月歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為888.8萬新台幣，今年前兩個季度每股收益為0.74新台幣。

On the next page, Page 6, our cash has reached almost TWD 100 billion.

在下一頁，第 6 頁，我們的現金已達到近 1000 億新台幣。

And for the total equity in the first half of 2020 was TWD 209 billion.

而2020年上半年的總股本為2090億新台幣。

On Page 7, ASP increased by a low single-digit percentage, mainly due to the surge in our 28 revenue shipments.

在第 7 頁，ASP 增長了個位數的低百分比，主要是由於我們的 28 個收入出貨量激增。

On Page 8, the revenue breakdown.

在第 8 頁，收入明細。

Asia stayed around 55%, and Japan also remained around 9%.

亞洲保持在 55% 左右，日本也保持在 9% 左右。

For Page 9, IDM and fabless remain unchanged, at 12% and 88%, respectively.

對於第 9 頁，IDM 和 fabless 保持不變，分別為 12% 和 88%。

On Page 10, communication declined 3 percentage points to 51% and made up by computer and other segments.

在第 10 頁，通信下降了 3 個百分點至 51%，由計算機和其他部分組成。

And on Page 11, as I mentioned, ASP increased by low single-digit percentage point mainly due to the surge in our 28-nanometer shipment, which now reached 13% of the total revenue in the second quarter compared to 9% in the previous quarter.

在第 11 頁，正如我所提到的，ASP 增長了個位數的低個百分點，這主要是由於我們的 28 納米出貨量激增，現在第二季度佔總收入的 13%，而上一季度為 9%四分之一。

And capacity still remain a minor increase quarter-over-quarter and CapEx remained at $1 billion for the whole 2020.

產能仍保持環比小幅增長，整個 2020 年資本支出保持在 10 億美元。

So the above is the summary of UMC's results for second quarter of 2020.

以上就是聯電2020年第二季度的業績總結。

More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

報告中提供了更多詳細信息，該報告已發佈在我們的網站上。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. Jason Wang.

我現在將把電話轉給聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生。

Thank you, Qi Dong.

謝謝你，啟東。

Good evening, everyone.

大家晚上好。

Here, I would like to update the second quarter operating results of UMC.

在這裡，我想更新聯電第二季度的經營業績。

During the second quarter, consolidated operating margin reached 13.2%, while utilization rate increased to 98%.

第二季度，綜合營業利潤率達到13.2%，而利用率提高到98%。

Lifting wafer shipments to 2.22 million 8-inch equivalent wafer.

將晶圓出貨量提升至 222 萬片 8 英寸等效晶圓。

The increase in wafer shipments mainly reflect the computing segment demand for connectivity, display driver and flash controller as well as the inventory replenishment in the computing market.

晶圓出貨量的增長主要反映了計算領域對連接、顯示驅動和閃存控制器的需求以及計算市場的庫存補充。

As we continue to strive to supply worldwide foundry services, our efforts have been appreciated by our customers.

隨著我們繼續努力提供全球代工服務，我們的努力得到了客戶的讚賞。

In Q2, Texas Instruments a customer, recognize UMC with the 2019 Supplier Excellence Award for the demonstrating excellent performance in the area of cost, environmental and social responsibility, technology, responsiveness, assurance of a supply and quality.

在第二季度，作為客戶的德州儀器 (TI) 授予 UMC 2019 年供應商卓越獎，以表彰其在成本、環境和社會責任、技術、響應能力、供應保證和質量方面的卓越表現。

In addition to serving customers to the best of our ability, UMC also increased 2019 cash dividend distribution to approximately TWD 0.8 per share, reflecting the recent company buyback of the treasury shares.

除了盡我們所能為客戶服務外，聯電亦將 2019 年現金股息派發增加至每股約 0.8 新台幣，以反映近期公司回購庫存股。

Looking into the third quarter, our market demand remains strong.

展望第三季度，我們的市場需求依然強勁。

We have experienced a search in 28-nanometer tape-outs during the first half of 2020 compared to the year-ago.

與去年同期相比，我們在 2020 年上半年經歷了 28 納米流片的搜索。

And expect additional 28-nanometer and 22-nanometer product tape-outs in the third quarter.

預計第三季度還會有更多的 28 納米和 22 納米產品流片。

We are also moving new 28-nanometer products into volume production for wireless applications such as 4G and 5G smartphones, which will enhance our business traction and diversify UMC's customer exposure across different 28-nanometer market segment.

我們還將新的 28 納米產品投入批量生產，用於 4G 和 5G 智能手機等無線應用，這將增強我們的業務牽引力，並使聯電在不同 28 納米市場領域的客戶曝光率多樣化。

Moreover, we have observed efforts minimize supply chain disruptions, amid uncertainty during the COVID-19 pandemic, while inventory replenishment is continuing across multiple market segments with the efforts continuing to push customer adoption of UMC Specialty Technologies, our ROI-driven corporate strategy remains unchanged.

此外，我們觀察到，在 COVID-19 大流行期間存在不確定性的情況下，我們正在努力最大限度地減少供應鏈中斷，同時在多個細分市場繼續進行庫存補充，並繼續努力推動客戶採用 UMC Specialty Technologies，我們以 ROI 為導向的企業戰略保持不變.

As UMC secure new business we will closely examine returns on invested capital to optimize the company's capital deployment and further enhance our financial performance.

隨著聯電獲得新業務，我們將密切關注投資資本回報，以優化公司的資本配置並進一步提升我們的財務業績。

Let's move on to the third quarter 2020 guidance.

讓我們繼續看 2020 年第三季度的指導。

Our wafer shipment will remain flat.

我們的晶圓出貨量將保持平穩。

ASP in U.S. dollar is expected to remain flat.

預計美元平均售價將保持平穩。

However, the accounting result will reflect the adverse effect in the NT dollar appreciation.

但會計結果會反映新台幣升值的不利影響。

Gross profit margin will be approximately 20%.

毛利率約為20%。

Capacity utilization rate will be in the mid-90% range.

產能利用率將在90%左右。

Our 2020 CapEx budget will be USD 1 billion.

我們 2020 年的資本支出預算為 10 億美元。

That concludes my comments.

我的評論到此結束。

Thank you all for your attention.

謝謝大家的關注。

Now we are ready for questions.

現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) And the first question is coming from Randy Abrams, Crédit Suisse.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams。

Good result.

好結果。

I wanted to ask the first question where, Jason, when you were going through the prepared remarks, you discussed the business remaining pretty strong.

我想問第一個問題，傑森，當你通過準備好的評論時，你討論了業務仍然非常強勁。

And it does sound like 28s ramping.

聽起來確實像是 28 秒的斜坡。

So I was curious the guidance where shipments and ASPs are guided flat.

所以我很好奇出貨量和平均售價是持平的指導。

So if you could discuss a bit on if any areas of softness to offset that or trends you're seeing on application to drive the flat guidance?

因此，如果您可以討論一下是否有任何軟性領域可以抵消這一點，或者您在應用程序中看到的趨勢以推動扁平化指導？

Sure.

當然。

Let me capture the field your questions.

讓我捕捉你的問題。

One is you mentioned based on the remarks, we foresee this the demand remains strong.

一個是您根據評論提到的，我們預計需求仍然強勁。

And however, the -- we guided the shipments and the ASP is flat.

然而，我們指導出貨量，平均售價持平。

Is that correct?

那是對的嗎？

Yes, that's correct.

對，那是正確的。

Also with 28, presumably ramping to have flat -- and yes, so kind of factors for it soft.

也有 28 個，可能會逐漸變平——是的，它有這麼軟的因素。

And also, maybe to add to it, if any, capacity constraints, where there might be certain demands you just can't fill right now?

此外，如果有的話，可能會增加容量限制，在哪些方面可能存在您現在無法滿足的某些需求？

Okay.

好的。

Let me see how to address that.

讓我看看如何解決這個問題。

First, in Q3, we do foresee change in the 28-nanometer product mix, okay, which will have a mild lift of ASP.

首先，在第三季度，我們確實預見到 28 納米產品組合的變化，好吧，這將對 ASP 有輕微的提升。

So the 28-nanometer demand increase will actually help us with the ASP lift.

因此，28 納米需求的增長實際上將幫助我們提高 ASP。

However, the blended ASP still depends on multiple factors, such as, the product mix of other nodes and shift in capacity utilization rate across the different nodes.

但是，混合平均售價仍然取決於多種因素，例如其他節點的產品組合以及不同節點的產能利用率變化。

So therefore, there are -- therefore, the profit impact on the 28 is not as significant in Q3 at this time.

因此，目前第三季度對 28 家公司的利潤影響並不顯著。

Does that answer your question?

這是否回答你的問題？

Yes, that does partially.

是的，這部分是。

I guess then just for overall business, if you could maybe say by application or nodes, like if 28 is improving, maybe which areas might be coming down a bit, either by application or technology area?

我想就整體業務而言，如果您可以按應用程序或節點說，例如 28 是否在改進，那麼可能哪些領域可能會下降一點，無論是按應用程序還是技術領域？

Okay.

好的。

So for the Q3, if I look at -- by the applications, we see strong -- strongest rebound is coming from the consumer segment and followed by the computer and the communications, okay.

所以對於第三季度，如果我看一下——從應用程序來看，我們看到強勁的——最強勁的反彈來自消費領域，其次是計算機和通信，好吧。

But all segments are increased, okay?

但是所有的段都增加了，好嗎？

We see an increase of all segments.

我們看到所有細分市場都有所增加。

And some the reason is we're seeing we're gaining market share results on the founding, the higher penetration in a smartphone, okay, and as well as from the those from a new customers, also from the existing customers, they're getting market share from a communication area.

一些原因是我們看到我們在成立之初就獲得了市場份額結果，智能手機的滲透率更高，好吧，以及來自新客戶和現有客戶的客戶，他們是從通信領域獲得市場份額。

The computer segment is really a result of working from home and home schooling, that, first, the continuous demand in both consumer and computer segment.

計算機細分市場實際上是在家工作和在家上學的結果，首先是消費者和計算機細分市場的持續需求。

So that's really where we're coming from the application point of view.

所以這就是我們從應用程序的角度來看的地方。

On the ASP, flatness is really a mix that I described earlier, even the 28 help, given the product mix, we actually didn't see as a significant.

在 ASP 上，平坦度確實是我之前描述的一種組合，即使是 28 幫助，考慮到產品組合，我們實際上並沒有認為是重要的。

Okay.

好的。

And if you could clarify, you mentioned all segments up.

如果你能澄清一下，你提到了所有的部分。

Is it the other category that's coming -- I mean, just to be flat overall first shipments?

是不是即將到來的另一個類別——我的意思是，只是總體上第一批貨物持平？

Is it then from that area that's offsetting the others?

那麼是不是來自那個抵消其他區域的區域？

Besides those 3 others -- there are other segments that we continue to see weakness.

除了這 3 個其他部分之外，還有其他部分我們繼續看到疲軟。

And so yes, they compensate some of the growth from those 3 areas.

所以是的，它們彌補了這三個領域的一些增長。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

One note, I noticed has come off the last couple of quarters.

我注意到最近幾個季度有一個便條。

80-nanometer, probably maybe one of the other sits a bit underutilized, but came down from 18% to 13% over the last 2 quarters.

80 納米，可能是其他一個未充分利用，但在過去兩個季度中從 18% 下降到 13%。

Is there applications moving off that, that you could backfill or could you upgrade that capacity to serve some of the 40 or 28 demand?

是否有應用程序脫離它，您可以回填或者升級該容量以滿足 40 或 28 個需求中的一些需求？

We can really moving 80 and 90 to serving the 40 and 28, but we are migrating that to, for example, 55 or 65 area.

我們確實可以將 80 和 90 移動到 40 和 28 服務，但我們正在將其遷移到例如 55 或 65 區域。

So in Q2, our 80 and 90 node that should continue to upgrade at 100% loading.

所以在第二季度，我們的 80 和 90 節點應該會在 100% 負載下繼續升級。

And the contribution lower is really just -- we're shuffling around the different node support.

較低的貢獻實際上只是 - 我們正在圍繞不同的節點支持進行調整。

Okay.

好的。

And if I could ask just one final question on the CapEx, well that's couple of years, you maintained TWD 1 billion, but then underspent as we went through the year.

如果我可以問一個關於資本支出的最後一個問題，那是幾年，你維持了 10 億新台幣，但隨著我們這一年的過去，支出不足。

And it's -- it looks that way through first half.

它是 - 它在上半場看起來就是這樣。

But I guess maybe for, Chitung, but how do you see the capacity?

但我猜可能是，Chitung，但你如何看待容量？

I know you had some 28 were Xiamen capacity set to ramp up.

我知道你有一些 28 被廈門容量設置增加。

So do you still see reaching that or could come in a bit light?

那麼您是否仍然看到達到這一目標或可能會有點光明？

And then maybe as a medium term, with utilization this year getting up to mid- to high-90s, do you need to start ramping up a bit more on the Capex, just to satisfy the demand and continue to maintain some of the growth?

然後也許從中期來看，隨著今年的利用率達到 90 多歲，您是否需要開始更多地增加資本支出，以滿足需求並繼續保持部分增長？

The answer is yes.

答案是肯定的。

And the capacity expansion at our 12X, which is Xiamen is actually on track and is expected to reach TWD 25,000 per month in the mid-2021.

而我們廈門12X的產能擴張實際上正在走上正軌，預計到2021年中期將達到每月25,000新台幣。

So that's part of our CapEx already.

所以這已經是我們資本支出的一部分。

The -- given the growing 22- and 28-nanometer customer demand, we actually examining the option to utilize available floor space at our Tainan facility, which are 12A to fulfill additional business opportunity in advanced technology.

- 鑑於客戶對 22 和 28 納米的需求不斷增長，我們實際上正在研究利用我們台南工廠的可用建築空間的選項，該工廠是 12A，以實現先進技術的額外商機。

Which was still subject to our ROI justification we didn't mentioned many quarters, okay?

哪個仍然取決於我們沒有提到很多季度的 ROI 理由，好嗎？

We will continue to evaluate our CapEx based on what we described, a stringent ROI-driven strategy to enhance our return to shareholder employees.

我們將繼續根據我們所描述的內容評估我們的資本支出，這是一項嚴格的投資回報驅動戰略，以提高我們對股東員工的回報。

So that will not change.

所以這不會改變。

That's also in our remarks that we'll continue that without any change of that.

這也是在我們的評論中，我們將繼續這一點，而不做任何改變。

But the next phase that we're looking at is more in our Taiwan, Tainan facility.

但我們正在關注的下一階段更多是在我們的台灣台南工廠。

If you get back to growth, do you think TWD 1 billion is still the level because you had the underutilization on 28.

如果你恢復增長，你認為 10 億新台幣仍然是這個水平，因為你在 28 上沒有充分利用。

But now with that full, is it a bit higher level now if you start to evaluate the growth out of Taiwan?

但是現在滿了，如果你開始評估台灣的增長，現在是不是有點高？

Yes.

是的。

I mean, I -- we are examining that option right now.

我的意思是，我——我們現在正在研究這個選項。

So it's too premature to giving the guidance of the CapEx numbers.

因此，現在給出資本支出數字的指導還為時過早。

But for the 2020, the TWD 1 billion will remain.

但到 2020 年，10 億新台幣仍將保留。

Yes.

是的。

I can't really the NT dollar amount that determines CapEx numbers.

我真的不能確定資本支出數字的新台幣金額。

Really the return requirement and also the customer demand, are multiple factors will lead to our CapEx decisions.

真正的回報要求和客戶需求，是多個因素將導致我們的資本支出決策。

Randy, I will also mention, in addition to the CapEx spending, we look at our top line growth we see the market applications such as the 5G handsets.

蘭迪，我還要提到，除了資本支出外，我們還關注我們的收入增長，我們看到了 5G 手機等市場應用。

The increase of silicon content in the 4G phone, those demand will continue driving that.

4G 手機中矽含量的增加，這些需求將繼續推動這一趨勢。

So that's why we seriously examine the option of a future capacity expansion.

這就是為什麼我們認真研究未來產能擴張的選擇。

Meanwhile, we also focus on productivity improvements, okay?

同時，我們也專注於提高生產力，好嗎？

And that will actually help us well in addition to that.

除此之外，這實際上會對我們有很好的幫助。

And besides the growth of a top line we foresee more room for improving our structure profitability, which we were trying to enhance our earnings.

除了收入增長外，我們預計結構盈利能力還有更大的提升空間，我們正在努力提高收益。

So we continue managing the balance of those.

所以我們繼續管理這些平衡。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

No, that makes sense.

不，這是有道理的。

I guess, a good problem to have the demand to go invest for.

我想，有投資需求的好問題。

It's-- we're happy to sustain that.

這是 - 我們很樂意維持這一點。

It means we'll have Gokul Hariharan from JPMorgan for questions.

這意味著我們將請摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan 提問。

Congratulations for the good result.

恭喜取得好成績。

First question I had, could you talk a little bit about -- I think gross margin in Q2 was clearly quite surprising, the jump in gross margin.

我的第一個問題，你能談談 - 我認為第二季度的毛利率顯然非常令人驚訝，毛利率的增長。

Could you talk a little bit about -- I think we saw that the depreciation did drop off by about TWD 500 million, but even with some currency appreciation.

你能談談 - 我認為我們看到貶值確實下降了大約 5 億新台幣，但即使有一些貨幣升值。

Can you talk about what was the reason for the gross margin improvement?

您能談談毛利率提高的原因是什麼嗎？

Is it all primarily to do with better utilization and better product mix?

這主要是為了更好地利用和更好的產品組合嗎？

Or are there any specific factors related to, let's say, Fujitsu, the fab or anything specific that we should be looking at?

或者是否有任何與富士通、晶圓廠或任何我們應該關注的特定因素相關的特定因素？

Well, I mean, yes, first of all, thank you and secondly, in terms of the better gross margin.

好吧，我的意思是，是的，首先，謝謝你，其次，就更好的毛利率而言。

In Q2, we show an increased gross margin profit primarily due to the product mix improvement, which lifts the ASP that help.

在第二季度，我們顯示毛利率增加主要是由於產品組合的改善，這提高了有助於提高平均售價的水平。

And secondly, the -- given the lower unit cost per wafer from the higher loading at a 98%, that's also a benefit factor.

其次，考慮到 98% 的負載率較高，每片晶圓的單位成本較低，這也是一個好處因素。

The third is we have -- we do have ongoing cost reduction activities.

第三是我們有 - 我們確實有持續的成本降低活動。

So combining all 3 as a result, we led to a growth of the Q2 gross profit.

因此，將這三者結合起來，我們導致了第二季度毛利潤的增長。

Okay.

好的。

So just a quick question.

所以只是一個簡單的問題。

Could we talk a little bit about 28-nanometer and May fab in Japan?

我們能談談日本的 28 納米和 May 晶圓廠嗎？

Are they now fairly -- where are they in terms of gross margin compared to the corporate average?

他們現在公平嗎？與公司平均水平相比，他們的毛利率在哪裡？

Are they still a big drag or the drag is much smaller now?

它們仍然是一個大阻力還是阻力現在要小得多？

So after a few quarters of synergy improvement, our 12M profitability has improved every quarter since becoming part of UMC.

因此，經過幾個季度的協同改進，我們 1200 萬的盈利能力在成為聯華電子的一部分後每個季度都有所提高。

We have implemented integration effort in fab operations incorporated fast know-how sharing and streamlined procurement, et cetera.

我們已經在晶圓廠運營中實施了整合工作，包括快速共享知識和簡化採購等。

So all of these efforts have improved the cost structure of 12M the SUSJC in Japan.

因此，所有這些努力都改善了日本 12M SUSJC 的成本結構。

So UMC's integration efforts are resulting in positive synergy in line with our expectations.

因此，聯華電子的整合努力正在產生積極的協同效應，符合我們的預期。

So this acquisition has financially contributed to our topline as well as our bottom line.

因此，此次收購在財務上為我們的收入和利潤做出了貢獻。

So we think going forward, our profitability of 12M or USJC will be largely dependent on its own demand supply dynamics.

因此，我們認為未來，我們 12M 或 USJC 的盈利能力將在很大程度上取決於其自身的需求供應動態。

Okay.

好的。

Any thoughts on 28-nanometer, given the capacity is now filling up with a strong traction from some of the new takeouts?

考慮到一些新的外賣產品的強大牽引力，現在對 28 納米有什麼想法嗎？

How much of a drag is 28-nanometer is still?

28 納米的阻力有多大？

Or are we kind of -- do we have line of sight in terms of 28 gross margins improving closer to the corporate average levels?

或者我們是不是有點——我們有沒有看到 28 個毛利率提高到接近公司平均水平？

Well, I mean, we actually don't look at the final basis on the margin drag.

好吧，我的意思是，我們實際上並沒有考慮邊際阻力的最終基礎。

Our expectation on the 28-nanometer is based on the progress of our 28 product pipeline as strong as what we've seen today with the business traction continuing into the second half of 2020, we foresee our 28-nanometer utilization will grow.

我們對 28 納米的預期是基於我們 28 種產品線的進展與我們今天看到的一樣強勁，業務牽引力持續到 2020 年下半年，我們預計我們的 28 納米利用率將增長。

And so we actually feel pretty confident about our 28-nanometer contribution to the company overall.

所以我們實際上對我們的 28 納米對整個公司的貢獻充滿信心。

With the product mix improvement and we believe that will help us with the ASP list in terms of generating much better profitability for the company as a whole.

隨著產品組合的改善，我們相信這將有助於我們獲得 ASP 列表，從而為整個公司帶來更好的盈利能力。

Okay.

好的。

And one last question from me.

我的最後一個問題。

Qi Dong, could you talk a little bit about any updated view on how we should think about depreciation?

啟東，您能談談我們應該如何看待折舊的最新觀點嗎？

Do we have a little bit more color in terms of how we see the depreciation roiling over, over the next couple of years?

就我們如何看待未來幾年的貶值而言，我們是否有更多的色彩？

Like we were expecting a bigger drop-off in 2022.

就像我們預計 2022 年會有更大的下降一樣。

If you want to get into a little bit more of a capacity expansion mode, should we think about a slightly different schedule for the depreciation coming down?

如果你想進入更多的產能擴張模式，我們是否應該考慮一個稍微不同的折舊計劃？

It's pretty much what we said in the past.

這幾乎就是我們過去所說的。

We are seeing some low single-digit decline in overall depreciation expenses in 2020 as far as 2021.

到 2021 年，我們看到 2020 年的整體折舊費用出現了低個位數的下降。

But in 2022, we are seeing more than double-digit decline in our overall depreciation expenses.

但在 2022 年，我們的整體折舊費用下降了兩位數以上。

So the major trends still remain unchanged.

因此，主要趨勢仍然保持不變。

And the next question is coming from Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

下一個問題來自華興資本的 Szeho Ng。

My question is regarding 28-nano.

我的問題是關於 28 納米的。

It seems like that you're still sticking to having 25,000 capacity ready middle of next year, right, at the Xiamen fab?

看來你仍然堅持在明年年中準備好 25,000 個產能，對吧，廈門工廠？

So I wonder what would be the next expansion.

所以我想知道下一個擴展是什麼。

Would that happened in Taiwan?

會不會發生在台灣？

Or would continue to be in Xiamen?

還是會繼續在廈門？

We actually mentioned this earlier, after the 25,000 in Xiamen, the next phase of growth or capacity expansion will happen in our Taiwan, Tainan facility.

我們之前實際上提到過，在廈門的 25,000 台之後，下一階段的增長或產能擴張將在我們的台灣台南工廠發生。

That's what we're referring to a 12A facility.

這就是我們所說的 12A 設施。

And given the available floor space and that will be the best ideal location for us to do the next expansion.

鑑於可用的樓面空間，這將是我們進行下一次擴建的最佳理想地點。

Okay.

好的。

And what would be the size of the expansion in Taiwan?

台灣的擴張規模有多大？

Well, we're still at the stage of examining that right now.

好吧，我們現在仍處於檢查階段。

So it could be based on different ranges, the size of the investment.

所以它可以基於不同的範圍，投資的規模。

Given that we have not concluded and still in the third quarter, we prefer not to comment at this point.

鑑於我們尚未結束且仍處於第三季度，我們目前不願發表評論。

And we think by end of this year, we'll have a better clarity on that.

我們認為到今年年底，我們將對此有更好的了解。

Okay.

好的。

That's useful.

這很有用。

And my second question, is it possible to give an update on the operation status for the Japan fab?

我的第二個問題是，是否可以提供日本工廠運營狀態的最新信息？

The operating profit impact in the 2019 was a negative of high single-digit percentage point.

2019 年對營業利潤的影響為高個位數百分點的負值。

This year, because of the strong demand coming from 28-nanometer and also enlarging economy of scales, the -- now has significantly reduced.

今年，由於來自28納米的強勁需求以及規模經濟的擴大，現在已經大大減少了。

And now the impact is around mid-single-digit percentage point.

現在的影響大約是個位數的中位數。

And certainly, we see further improvement once we reach 25,000 in 2021.

當然，一旦我們在 2021 年達到 25,000，我們就會看到進一步的改善。

Okay.

好的。

Congratulations on great results.

祝賀你取得了很好的成績。

And the next one is coming from Roland Shu of Citigroup.

下一位來自花旗集團的 Roland Shu。

First, for your 28-nanometer utilization.

首先，為了您的 28 納米利用率。

So you said in second quarter, actually, your overall utilization that was about 98%, and you still expect 28-nanometer utilization to -- will increase in 3Q.

所以你在第二季度說，實際上，你的整體利用率約為 98%，你仍然預計 28 納米的利用率將在第三季度增加。

So I just want to ask you.

所以我只想問你。

What kind of the magnitude of this utilization will increase for 28-nanometer?

對於 28 納米，這種利用率會增加多少？

And after the utilization increase, what of the percentage point are the revenue contribution for 28-nanometer will be in second half?

而在利用率提升之後，下半年28納米的營收貢獻率是多少？

This is my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

Well, the overall company's utilization rate will be a 95%.

那麼，整個公司的利用率將是95％。

Mid-90s.

90 年代中期。

Okay, mid-90s as we guided.

好的，按照我們的指導，在 90 年代中期。

And we -- on a blended basis, the 8-inch, we're running at full, and 12-inch, we're running at 90%, okay?

我們——在混合的基礎上，8 英寸，我們正在全速運行，12 英寸，我們正在運行 90%，好嗎？

So that will give us approximately the mid-90s utilization guidance for the -- across older notes of the company.

因此，這將為我們提供大約 90 年代中期關於公司舊票據的使用指南。

And we continue to seeing this a room for the 28-nanometer to increase.

我們繼續看到 28 納米技術的發展空間。

And so we think that 28-nanometer utilization rate will continue to increase on a quarter-to-quarter basis at this time.

因此，我們認為此時 28 納米的利用率將繼續按季度增長。

Yes.

是的。

Understood.

明白了。

But second quarter, your overall corporate average utilization was 98%.

但是第二季度，您的整體公司平均利用率為 98%。

So what's the 28-nanometer utilization in second quarter?

那麼第二季度 28 納米的利用率是多少？

So again, our overall capacity in the third quarter were increased by approximately 1%, addition of 1%.

同樣，我們在第三季度的整體產能增加了大約 1%，增加了 1%。

And also in the second quarter, as Jason mentioned, 8-inch are full, around 100%.

同樣在第二季度，正如 Jason 所說，8 英寸已滿，大約 100%。

And 12-inch is 90-ish.

12 英寸是 90 英寸。

And so 28 is, I think, a little bit less than the 12-inch average.

因此，我認為 28 比 12 英寸的平均值要少一點。

Okay.

好的。

So you probably in 3Q, we are going to see this maybe single-digit percentage point utilization increase for 28-nanometer?

所以你可能在第三季度，我們會看到 28 納米的利用率可能會增加個位數的百分點？

Or more than that?

或者更多？

Yes.

是的。

We don't give the numbers on single node utilization, right?

我們沒有給出單節點利用率的數字，對吧？

So we can give you a relative ideas about how we compare to our corporate average.

因此，我們可以為您提供有關我們如何與公司平均水平進行比較的相關想法。

Okay.

好的。

So how about the -- in second half, the revenue contribution from 28-nanometer.

那麼--下半年，28納米的收入貢獻如何。

In second quarter, it was 13%, and how about in second half?

第二季度是13%，下半年呢？

It should gradually trend up quarter-over-quarter.

它應該逐漸呈季度環比上升趨勢。

We see a slightly increase on the 28-nanometer in the next quarter.

我們看到下一季度 28 納米的略有增加。

A slightly increase in 3Q, right?

三季度略有增長，對吧？

Right.

對。

Yes.

是的。

Well, I mean we have been talking about our 28-nanometer business for multiple quarters.

好吧，我的意思是我們已經討論了多個季度的 28 納米業務。

I think most of you know about that, right?

我想你們大多數人都知道這一點，對吧？

And the -- now in the Q2, in our view, this is truly start seeing a meaningful 28-nanometer growth quarter-over-quarter.

而且——在我們看來，現在在第二季度，這真正開始看到有意義的 28 納米環比增長。

This is very much in line to our expectation and it's reflecting the materialization of our long-term game plan.

這非常符合我們的預期，也反映了我們長期遊戲計劃的實現。

So I just kind of want to add that.

所以我只是想補充一點。

I understand we've been talking about this for a really long time.

我知道我們已經談論這個問題很長時間了。

And I -- we finally will start seeing that, and meaningful growth coming in now.

而我 - 我們最終將開始看到這一點，並且現在會出現有意義的增長。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

My second question is on your -- for the 14-nanometer.

我的第二個問題是關於 14 納米的。

I just looked at your annual report.

我剛剛看了你的年報。

You have continued investing in 14-nanometer finFET technology.

您繼續投資於 14 納米 finFET 技術。

And your 14-nanometer FFC is met potash from second half this year.

從今年下半年開始，您的 14 納米 FFC 就會遇到鉀肥。

But for you, you only have a very limited 14-nanometer capacity.

但對你來說，你只有非常有限的 14 納米容量。

So question is, are you considering to further expand your 14-nanometer capacity anytime soon?

所以問題是，您是否考慮在短期內進一步擴大您的 14 納米產能？

And if you want to do that, how much CapEx it is -- will be by this case?

如果你想這樣做，它是多少資本支出——在這種情況下會是多少？

So this is my second question.

所以這是我的第二個問題。

Sure.

當然。

I mean, we also have been talking about this for a long time.

我的意思是，我們也討論了很長時間。

We will closely examine all the return on capital expenditure and optimize our capital deployment to elevate our financial performance.

我們將仔細檢查所有資本支出的回報並優化我們的資本配置以提升我們的財務業績。

So every time when we start talking about CapEx, and we have to go back to that, we have to have -- make sure that we have justified the CapEx decisions.

因此，每當我們開始談論資本支出時，我們必須回到那個話題，我們必須 - 確保我們已經證明了資本支出決定的合理性。

And for 14, from a technology development point of view, it's important to us.

對於 14，從技術發展的角度來看，這對我們很重要。

So we have been continually investing and want to make sure that we develop the technology as well as other technology, the area that we are focused on is right now in the specialty area.

因此，我們一直在不斷投資，並希望確保我們開發技術以及其他技術，我們現在關注的領域是專業領域。

We want to make sure that we -- from a technology development standpoint, we are relevant to the focus area.

我們希望確保我們 - 從技術開發的角度來看，我們與重點領域相關。

And beyond that point, as far as the CapEx decision and then we go -- we'll go ahead the extent based on an ROI basis.

除此之外，至於資本支出決定，然後我們繼續 - 我們將根據投資回報率繼續進行。

So I'm never going to rule out the chance of putting the new capacity on a 14, but at this point, it's not on our plan yet.

所以我永遠不會排除將新容量放在 14 上的機會，但目前，它還沒有在我們的計劃中。

Yes.

是的。

So by what kind of criteria or what kind of consideration, you are going to expand or raise the capacity for 14-nanometer?

那麼根據什麼樣的標准或什麼樣的考慮，你打算擴大或提高14納米的能力？

I think actually every year, you spend big money on R&D for this 14 finFET technology.

我認為實際上每一年，你都會在這項 14 finFET 技術的研發上投入大量資金。

But if you don't have a big -- have the capacity, I think how are you going to monetize the investment on these finFET technology development?

但是，如果您沒有大的能力，我想您將如何將這些 finFET 技術開發的投資貨幣化？

Well, that's really a good question.

嗯，這確實是一個好問題。

And if you look at the investment perspective, between the R&D investment and the capacity investment, the R&D is actually relatively small.

而如果從投資角度看，在研發投入和產能投入之間，研發其實是比較小的。

It's a much smaller investment.

這是一筆小得多的投資。

And so -- but if you look at the addressable market, at this point, we're considering anything 14 above are our addressable market.

所以 - 但是如果你看一下潛在市場，在這一點上，我們正在考慮上面的任何 14 都是我們的潛在市場。

So we always have to examine our addressable market and whether the demand is valid.

所以我們總是要檢查我們的目標市場以及需求是否有效。

And then we come back and look at the application if that makes sense for us to invest into capacity.

然後我們回過頭來看看應用程序是否對我們投資容量有意義。

Meanwhile, we do have about 2000 to 3000 capacity in place.

同時，我們確實有大約 2000 到 3000 個容量。

And -- so we're not going to completely waste in terms of our R&D investment.

而且 - 所以我們不會完全浪費我們的研發投資。

So we think this is more prudent for all stakeholders.

因此，我們認為這對所有利益相關者來說更為謹慎。

So we're going to continue to follow that strategy.

因此，我們將繼續遵循該策略。

Understood, you said a 2,000 to 3,000 capacity for 14-nanometer, right?

明白了，你說的是 14 納米的 2,000 到 3,000 容量，對吧？

It's not additional 2,000 to 3,000, total 2,000 to 3,000.

這不是額外的2,000到3,000，總共2,000到3,000。

No.

不。

This is what we have right now.

這就是我們現在所擁有的。

And the next one is coming from Aaron Jeng of Nomura Securities.

下一位來自野村證券的 Aaron Jeng。

I guess a question about competition landscape at 28-nanometer and also the other mature 12-inch node.

我想一個關於 28 納米和另一個成熟的 12 英寸節點的競爭格局的問題。

I think particularly 28-nanometer, I think this question has been asked a few times.

我想特別是28納米，我想這個問題已經被問過幾次了。

When Jason, you said, it's an oversupply to be of the supply for 28-nanometer for foundry industry, but you are able to manage your 28-nanometer to do better and better every quarter.

當 Jason，你說，28 納米對代工行業的供應是供過於求的，但你可以管理你的 28 納米，每個季度做得越來越好。

So I want to know your view on the competition landscape at 28-nanometer and also the other mature 12-inch nodes.

所以我想知道您對 28 納米以及其他成熟的 12 英寸節點競爭格局的看法。

Sure.

當然。

So let me start off with the 28-nanometers.

所以讓我從 28 納米開始。

First of all, we're unable to comment on our peers.

首先，我們無法評論我們的同行。

And we don't know much about them internally.

而且我們內部對它們知之甚少。

So I understand what they said, but we shouldn't be commenting about that.

所以我理解他們所說的，但我們不應該對此發表評論。

But let's look at UMC.

但是讓我們看看聯電。

We do believe our 28- and 22-nanometer solution have finally provided competitive advantage for our customers.

我們相信我們的 28 和 22 納米解決方案最終為我們的客戶提供了競爭優勢。

Like I said earlier, the progress of our 28-nanometer product pipeline remains very strong.

正如我之前所說，我們 28 納米產品線的進展仍然非常強勁。

The search of the 28 and a 22 tape-outs also shows that, and will continue to increase our exposure to a more diversified 28 customer base and product portfolio.

對 28 和 22 流片的搜索也表明，並將繼續增加我們對更多元化的 28 客戶群和產品組合的曝光率。

So we are expecting our 28-nanometer revenue contribution in Q3 will continue and to increase.

因此，我們預計我們在第三季度的 28 納米收入貢獻將繼續並增加。

And given why I also mentioned earlier, driven by the higher penetration rate in the smartphone and continued demand in the computing segment.

考慮到我之前提到的原因，受智能手機滲透率提高和計算領域持續需求的推動。

So we expect this 28 -- now that this business momentum will benefit by those, okay?

所以我們預計這 28 - 現在這種業務勢頭將受益於這些，好嗎？

If you look at the other 12-inch mature nodes for the 40-nanometers, we foresee a positive demand in the second half as well.

如果你看一下 40 納米的其他 12 英寸成熟節點，我們預計下半年也有積極的需求。

And due to an increase of the customers' 40-nanometer adoption in a larger device, driven by the wireless applications.

並且由於無線應用推動了客戶在更大設備中採用 40 納米工藝的增加。

So there are other applications coming into the 40-nanometer as well.

因此，40 納米也有其他應用。

And looking beyond the 2020, we are considering to migrate portion of the 40-nanometer capacity to support our unfulfilled 28-nanometer demand to enhance our ASP and profitability.

展望 2020 年以後，我們正在考慮遷移部分 40 納米產能，以支持我們未滿足的 28 納米需求，以提高我們的平均售價和盈利能力。

So in the longer term, I think there will be a demand-supply balance on the 40-nanometer.

所以從長遠來看，我認為在 40 納米上會有供需平衡。

So we are considering to migrating some of our 40s to 28, okay.

所以我們正在考慮將我們 40 多歲的一些人遷移到 28 歲，好吧。

Then if we're coming down to 55 and 65, our 55 and 65 business for the second half of this year, we are very confident that our demand will remain strong, mainly coming out from the smartphone segment, again, associated with the 5G RF switch and the TDDI, which will be driven by the higher adoption of the 120-hertz display panels.

那麼如果我們在今年下半年降至 55 和 65，我們的 55 和 65 業務，我們非常有信心，我們的需求將保持強勁，主要來自與 5G 相關的智能手機市場RF 開關和 TDDI，這將受到 120 赫茲顯示面板的更高采用率的推動。

So we think most applications moving into the 55, and we start seeing a very, very strong momentum on 55 and 65.

所以我們認為大多數應用程序都進入了 55，我們開始看到 55 和 65 的勢頭非常非常強勁。

And we think in the foundry landscape, the 55 and 65 will have a very strong demand over the supply.

我們認為，在代工領域，55 和 65 對供應的需求將非常強勁。

And of course, we talked about 80 and 90 earlier.

當然，我們之前談到了 80 和 90。

Right now, we're running up rates 100% loading for Q2.

現在，我們正在為第二季度提高 100% 的加載率。

The -- for the second half, we do see some demand within the 80 and 90 applications are stronger than the others, some stronger, some weaker, but the overall 80 and 90 demand outlook is still in line with our 12-inch corporate average.

- 下半年，我們確實看到 80 和 90 應用中的一些需求比其他應用更強勁，一些更強，一些更弱，但整體 80 和 90 需求前景仍符合我們 12 英寸企業平均水平.

So I think that will give you a flavor of our view on the -- on those nodes that we're serving today.

所以我認為這會讓你了解我們對我們今天服務的那些節點的看法。

That's super clear.

這超級清楚。

Perhaps a second question, which probably, I don't know if we can have your answer.

也許是第二個問題，也許，我不知道我們是否能得到你的答案。

It's about a lawsuit and I think a few -- maybe a few months ago, we saw an article saying that General Counsel at UMC commented that the lawsuit will not be concluded in 2, 3 years' time frame.

這是關於一場訴訟，我想有幾個——也許幾個月前，我們看到一篇文章說聯電的總法律顧問評論說，訴訟不會在 2、3 年的時間框架內結束。

So I just want to know how should we think about the time frame.

所以我只想知道我們應該如何考慮時間框架。

And I don't know, any update on this topic?

我不知道，關於這個話題的任何更新？

Well, I mean, the -- right now, the lawsuit is in the legal proceedings.

嗯，我的意思是，現在，訴訟正在法律程序中。

And so it's really not in our control in terms of the timeline of the process.

因此，就流程的時間線而言，這實際上不在我們的控制範圍內。

But we do follow that the -- wherever that court require us, okay?

但我們確實遵循 - 法院要求我們的任何地方，好嗎？

We remain -- we restate our believing in ourselves.

我們仍然——我們重申我們對自己的信念。

And so we don't believe there's any false wrongdoing in terms of UMC.

因此，我們認為聯電沒有任何錯誤的不當行為。

And so we stay believing that, and we just have to trust that the court system will eventually give us a fair result.

所以我們仍然相信這一點，我們只需要相信法院系統最終會給我們一個公平的結果。

The -- so since it's in the legal proceeding, it's truly not in our position to comment that at this time.

- 因此，由於它處於法律程序中，因此我們目前確實無法對此發表評論。

And the next to ask a question is from Sebastian Hou, CLSA.

下一個提問的是里昂證券的 Sebastian Hou。

My questions will probably for -- just focus on the 8-inch side.

我的問題可能是——只關注 8 英寸的一面。

So I think the company has been running a very high utilization rate for many quarters already.

因此，我認為該公司已經在多個季度運行了非常高的利用率。

So I wonder what's your strategy here that in terms of expansion and also your -- whether you have more priority or selective on the product you do going forward?

所以我想知道你在這裡的擴張策略是什麼，以及你的 - 你是否對你未來的產品有更多的優先權或選擇性？

I mean, you're right.

我的意思是，你是對的。

And we do see the 8-inch has been continuing for many quarters.

我們確實看到 8 英寸已經持續了很多個季度。

And it's our belief will remain full and throughout the second half of 2020.

而且我們的信念將在 2020 年下半年保持完整。

And so we are constantly looking into options to further expanding our 8-inch capacity.

因此，我們一直在尋找進一步擴大 8 英寸容量的選項。

But given the ASP situation, any organic growth in the 8-inch will be very limited.

但考慮到 ASP 情況，8 英寸的任何有機增長都將非常有限。

We -- we'll continue looking for those options, and which we did in the past years, we actually increased our 8-inch capacity organically as well.

我們 - 我們將繼續尋找這些選項，並且我們在過去幾年中所做的那樣，我們實際上也有機地增加了我們的 8 英寸容量。

So by continue migrating some of our fabs to support our customer in the advanced 8-inch area, particularly.

因此，通過繼續遷移我們的一些晶圓廠，特別是在先進的 8 英寸領域支持我們的客戶。

So we're going to continue doing that.

所以我們將繼續這樣做。

And sometimes inorganically, it has to be -- it had to come by those opportunity, we have to go out search for it.

有時，它必須是無機的——它必須來自那些機會，我們必須出去尋找它。

So -- and we'll continue as well.

所以——我們也將繼續。

And so -- and meanwhile, in terms of the tightness of the 8-inch situation, it does affect some of the prioritization, as you mentioned about allocation.

所以——同時，就 8 英寸的緊張情況而言，它確實會影響一些優先級，正如你提到的分配。

So our focus in 8-inch is also on the area of the product mix improvement.

因此，我們對 8 英寸的關注也在於產品組合的改進。

So we'll continue migrating some of our legacy to the advance and continue migrating some of the better product mix to help us enhance our ASP as well as profitability of the 8-inch, and that is an ongoing basis.

因此，我們將繼續將我們的一些傳統遷移到先進設備中，並繼續遷移一些更好的產品組合，以幫助我們提高我們的 ASP 以及 8 英寸的盈利能力，這是一個持續的基礎。

The -- given that we foresee a strong demand and continue leading to the supply tightness, okay, not only -- or by the way, not only to the 8-inch, but also on some of the specific 12-inch, I talked about earlier, we were actually -- we think there's going to be -- the market pricing situation will probably become more in favor of the foundry from now.

- 鑑於我們預見到強勁的需求並繼續導致供應緊張，好吧，不僅 - 或者順便說一下，不僅是 8 英寸，還有一些特定的 12 英寸，我談到了大約早些時候，我們實際上 - 我們認為會有 - 從現在開始，市場定價情況可能會變得更加有利於代工。

That will probably help us well.

這可能會對我們有很好的幫助。

Got it.

知道了。

Just a follow-up on -- given that we are -- we have a privilege or more flexibility about the -- doing things that is more earnings accretive to us.

只是跟進 - 鑑於我們 - 我們有特權或更靈活 - 做對我們來說更能增加收入的事情。

So how do you see it about the overall pricing outlook for the 8-inch going forward?

那麼您如何看待 8 英寸未來的整體定價前景呢？

I'm sorry, I didn't catch the question again.

對不起，我沒有再聽到這個問題。

Can you repeat...

你可以重複嗎...

The question is that given that you can be more selective and prioritize the business, the product application that more favorable to our profitability.

問題是，鑑於您可以更有選擇性並優先考慮業務，產品應用對我們的盈利能力更有利。

Then how do you see that reflected on the 8-inch foundry price?

那麼您如何看待這反映在 8 英寸代工價格上呢？

Well, I mean, the pricing discussions are ongoing.

好吧，我的意思是，定價討論正在進行中。

Right now -- well, first of all, do value our long-term customer partnerships.

現在——嗯，首先，要重視我們的長期客戶合作夥伴關係。

So we need to -- seeking for a win-win cooperation with them.

所以我們需要——尋求與他們的雙贏合作。

So we need to continue to align with our customers.

因此，我們需要繼續與客戶保持一致。

For the year 2021, we already have an ongoing discussion on this alignment, okay?

對於 2021 年，我們已經就這種一致性進行了持續的討論，好嗎？

And so the pricing will be a result of those alignments.

因此，定價將是這些對齊的結果。

And I would not give you a specific at this time, but I -- again, I will probably say at this point, given the demand supply situation, I think the pricing situation outlook is more in favor of the foundry right now.

我現在不會給你一個具體的信息，但我 - 再說一次，我可能會在這一點上說，鑑於需求供應情況，我認為現在的定價前景更有利於代工。

Got it.

知道了。

Got it.

知道了。

Just a last follow-up on this.

只是對此的最後一次跟進。

I remember the last time we -- the range foundry price has -- we are able and including our peers are able to raise the price that was back in, I think 2018.

我記得上次我們 - 範圍代工價格 - 我們能夠並且包括我們的同行能夠提高價格，我認為是 2018 年。

And also coincidently, there are also the cost increase from the rail wafer.

而且巧合的是，軌道晶圓也有成本增加。

So we have a very good reason to want to negotiate with our clients that we can pass the cost to the customers.

所以我們有充分的理由想與我們的客戶談判，我們可以將成本轉嫁給客戶。

So it justify our reasoning for raising or adjusting the price higher.

因此，它證明了我們提高或調高價格的理由。

How about this time?

這次怎麼樣？

I mean it looks like the wafer allover price may -- we haven't heard there will be some adjustment yet.

我的意思是看起來晶圓總價可能——我們還沒有聽說會有一些調整。

I'm not sure it's going to happen next year.

我不確定明年是否會發生。

But given that we don't have that kind of the cost justification, but when you negotiate this with customers, the customers still pretty acceptive about this price negotiation?

但是鑑於我們沒有那種成本合理性，但是當您與客戶談判時，客戶仍然對這次價格談判很接受？

First of all, you have a very good memory.

首先，你的記憶力非常好。

Yes, you're right.

你是對的。

Last time, the price increase is mainly driven by the raw material cost increases.

上一次，價格上漲主要是原材料成本上漲推動的。

And so we pass down to the customer.

所以我們傳遞給客戶。

This time is a difference.

這一次是不同的。

This time is mainly because the demand and supply alignment situation.

這一次主要是因為供需對齊的情況。

We do see a very strong demand in the 8-inch advanced nodes area.

我們確實看到 8 英寸先進節點領域的需求非常強勁。

So given the tightness of the situation, we have to prioritize our resources and along with our partnership relationship.

因此，鑑於局勢緊張，我們必須優先考慮我們的資源以及我們的伙伴關係。

So we are managing the balance of that.

所以我們正在管理這方面的平衡。

But again, I think customers appreciate that and understand it.

但同樣，我認為客戶會欣賞並理解這一點。

So those discussion is ongoing at this time.

因此，這些討論目前正在進行中。

And the next question is coming from Bruce of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的布魯斯。

Very, very good result.

非常非常好的結果。

I have a question again to the 28-nanometer profitability.

我再次對 28 納米的盈利能力提出疑問。

I'm actually very surprised to see the management did not take each node profitability.

我實際上很驚訝地看到管理層沒有採取每個節點的盈利能力。

Because company management also mentioned that your new investment is based on a better return, which means that when you try to increase your 28-nanometer capacity, you believe that incremental capacity can give you a better return?

因為公司管理層也提到你的新投資是基於更好的回報，也就是說當你嘗試增加你的28納米產能時，你相信增量產能能給你帶來更好的回報嗎？

So can -- so my question is that when do we expect that 28-nanometer should be the corporate average profitability and margin?

所以可以——所以我的問題是，我們何時預計 28 納米應該是公司的平均盈利能力和利潤率？

And is that the reason why we want to increase the -- repeat the 28-nanometer capacity?

這就是我們想要增加——重複28納米容量的原因嗎？

So for increasing incremental 28-nanometer capacity, sometimes it helps the overall bigger pictures.

因此，為了增加 28 納米的增量容量，有時它有助於整體更大的圖景。

So if we don't have adequate capacity or economy of scales, it's difficult to reach our long-term goal in terms of profitability.

因此，如果我們沒有足夠的產能或規模經濟，就很難達到我們在盈利能力方面的長期目標。

So we just cannot look at the incremental per se.

所以我們不能只看增量本身。

It's really the overall result in a longer-term time spend is what we are really considering.

我們真正考慮的是長期花費的整體結果。

So yes, if we are considering to expand our 28-nanometer is going to fulfill our requirement for a longer term picture.

所以，是的，如果我們正在考慮擴展我們的 28 納米，將滿足我們對長期前景的要求。

But I thought that maybe we can somehow raise the ASP first to improve the margin or profitability, then we do the capacity expansion or any other ways to boost for the margin?

但我想也許我們可以先提高平均售價以提高利潤率或盈利能力，然後我們進行產能擴張或其他任何方式來提高利潤率？

Well, certainly, we follow your view as well, but sometimes it just in reality, it doesn't come in the preferred sequence.

好吧，當然，我們也遵循您的觀點，但有時它只是在現實中，它並沒有按首選順序出現。

So for our -- for example, our 8-inch today, as our President just mentioned, the pricing environment is really in the favor of foundry.

因此，對於我們的 - 例如，我們今天的 8 英寸，正如我們的總裁剛才提到的那樣，定價環境確實有利於代工。

And hopefully, we believe with our competitiveness and also the readiness of our technology, somehow the pricing -- bargaining power will return to the foundry side as well.

希望我們相信，憑藉我們的競爭力以及我們技術的成熟度，定價——討價還價的能力也將回到代工方面。

So yes, we certainly follow your thought and well we wish that to happen as well.

所以是的，我們當然會遵循您的想法，我們也希望這也能發生。

But the more important is really to fulfill the meeting parts and to reach the economy of scale and to have a adequate capacity for our key customers.

但更重要的是真正完成會議部分並達到規模經濟並為我們的主要客戶提供足夠的容量。

Understand.

理解。

Just a little bit follow-up on the -- for the 28.

只是對 28 的一點點跟進。

So moving into the second half, our 28-nanometer utilization is slightly below the 12-inch average, which means that incrementally iteration rate might not be a big moving factor for your 28-nanometer profitability.

因此，進入下半年，我們的 28 納米利用率略低於 12 英寸的平均水平，這意味著增量迭代率可能不會成為影響 28 納米盈利能力的重要因素。

So can we expect that -- how can we see a better profitability for 28 in the second half?

那麼我們可以期待 - 我們如何才能看到下半年 28 的盈利能力更好？

Maybe we use the tool for the 28 alone or we -- any other ways we can see that -- or how should we see the profitability improvement in the second half for 28?

也許我們單獨使用 28 的工具，或者我們 - 我們可以看到的任何其他方式 - 或者我們應該如何看待 28 下半年的盈利能力改善？

I think for -- as a finance person -- maybe Jason can jump in later on.

我認為——作為一名財務人員——也許 Jason 可以稍後加入。

As a finance person, the depreciation curve need to come down.

作為財務人員，折舊曲線需要下降。

So that's exactly the situation for our Xiamen fab, and it may take another couple of years to see the curve to peak to decline to help our overall 28 profitability.

所以這正是我們廈門工廠的情況，可能需要再過幾年才能看到曲線達到峰值下降，以幫助我們 28 的整體盈利能力。

And our 12A in Thailand has pretty much reached the inflection point.

而我們在泰國的 12A 幾乎達到了拐點。

So by year 2022, overall company, we will see a significant decline in depreciation expenses, which is largely related to our 12A 28 expansion we did back in a few years ago.

因此，到 2022 年，整個公司，我們將看到折舊費用顯著下降，這在很大程度上與我們幾年前進行的 12A 28 擴建有關。

So depreciation will come down.

所以貶值會下降。

And hopefully, our product mix amortize -- I mean, our product mix enhancement will also help our overall blended ASP for 28-nanometers.

希望我們的產品組合能夠攤銷——我的意思是，我們的產品組合增強也將有助於我們 28 納米的整體混合 ASP。

Okay.

好的。

I've got one last question for the 8-inch.

我有最後一個關於 8 英寸的問題。

Management mentioned that the pricing environment is better, but the third quarter guidance for the ASP is still remain flattish.

管理層提到定價環境較好，但第三季度的平均售價指引仍然持平。

So when can we expect some like improvement in terms of 8-inch blended ASP?

那麼，我們什麼時候可以期待 8 英寸混合 ASP 方面的一些類似改進呢？

The -- I mentioned the -- many of the discussion about that is for the year 2021.

- 我提到了 - 許多關於此的討論是針對 2021 年的。

So that alignment is ongoing.

因此，這種調整正在進行中。

And all our 2020s demands the supply -- the support is being aligned previously.

我們所有的 2020 年代都需要供應——之前的支持是一致的。

And so -- and we -- considering the long-term partnership that we have, and that will be only a selective area with the upside with a better pricing.

所以 - 我們 - 考慮到我們擁有的長期合作夥伴關係，這將只是一個選擇性領域，具有更好的定價優勢。

But in general, we did not move the pricing in 2020.

但總的來說，我們在 2020 年沒有調整定價。

Now for 2021, given the demand supply situation change and it's more of the discussion today is for 2021.

現在是 2021 年，鑑於需求供應情況的變化，今天更多的討論是針對 2021 年。

Meanwhile, for 2020, all the pricing adjustment is given on the upside support area.

同時，對於2020年，所有的價格調整都在上行支撐區域。

I see.

我懂了。

Understand.

理解。

So we can expect like much better ASP trend in 2021 at least for 8-inch.

因此，我們可以期待 2021 年至少 8 英寸的 ASP 趨勢會好得多。

By then, we actually will give you a much better...

到那時，我們實際上會給你一個更好的...

I understand that.

我明白那個。

I just can't wait.

我等不及了。

I definitely share the sense of.

我絕對有同感。

But there's -- when the time come, we will give you a really clear guidance on that.

但是有——到時候，我們會給你一個非常明確的指導。

The next question is coming from Charlie Chan of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan。

And congratulations for very good results.

並祝賀取得了非常好的結果。

So I also have a follow-up question on gross margin.

所以我還有一個關於毛利率的後續問題。

And it seems like you're guiding third quarter margin to decline from second quarter.

似乎您正在指導第三季度的利潤率從第二季度開始下降。

Is that all due to the ramp of 28-nanometer mix?

這一切都是由於 28 納米混合技術的進步嗎？

And I'm not really sure because suppose the higher iterations should mean a better margin, why the margins would decline in third quarter?

而且我不太確定，因為假設更高的迭代次數應該意味著更好的利潤率，為什麼第三季度的利潤率會下降？

Okay.

好的。

For the Q3, the next quarter gross margin guidance, we are expecting it will be -- the margin will be challenged by the foreign exchange market.

對於第三季度，下一季度的毛利率指導，我們預計它將是——利潤率將受到外匯市場的挑戰。

Thus the stronger dollar, NT dollar will dilute our profitability that's one of the reasons.

因此美元走強，新台幣會稀釋我們的盈利能力這也是原因之一。

In addition, we are entering into the summer section.

此外，我們正在進入夏季部分。

So every year, annually, that will lead to higher utility costs during the time.

因此，每年，每年，這將導致在此期間更高的公用事業成本。

So we are factoring those into the calculation as well.

因此，我們也將這些因素計入計算中。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

And next is about your top line.

接下來是關於你的頂線。

I mean 28-nanometer goes up.

我的意思是28納米上升。

And you mentioned that across segments demand remains to be very strong.

您提到跨細分市場的需求仍然非常強勁。

Is that the case, why the revenue is only flat for one quarter?

是這樣嗎，為什麼只有一個季度的收入持平？

Well, again, the -- given the product mix that we are projecting today and we do think there will be some help, but there's going to be some the other node that compensated with the upside of the 28.

好吧，再一次，考慮到我們今天預測的產品組合，我們確實認為會有一些幫助，但是會有一些其他節點可以彌補 28 的優勢。

So that will give us the flattish outlook at this point.

因此，在這一點上，這將使我們的前景變得平淡。

From the utilization rate point of view, for the Q3, there will be an overall capacity increase about what over a little bit over 1%.

從利用率來看，三季度整體產能增幅將在1%多一點。

And besides giving the mid-90, which, let's say, mid-90 utilization rate guidance, we consider that's very high already.

除了給出 90 年代中期，比方說，90 年代中期的利用率指導，我們認為這已經非常高了。

So we feel this is probably a reasonable guidance at this time, yes.

所以我們覺得目前這可能是一個合理的指導，是的。

And the next is about your litigation risk.

接下來是關於您的訴訟風險。

So May conference, you did expect that lawsuit wouldn't conclude in the coming 2 to 3 years.

所以五月會議，你確實預計訴訟不會在未來 2 到 3 年內結束。

Is that really what your official comments?

你的官方評論真的是這樣嗎？

And actually, my -- by our opinion, you said maybe there is still an overhang.

實際上，我的 - 根據我們的意見，你說也許還有懸垂。

And your business fundamental is quite strong.

而且您的業務基礎非常強大。

Why not management or company consider to do a settlement with the U.S. or Micron earlier, even there will be some potential compensation?

為什麼管理層或公司不考慮早點與美國或美光達成和解，即使會有一些潛在的補償？

Again, this in the legal proceeding.

同樣，這在法律程序中。

We -- it's not appropriate for us to comment on our legal thinking throughout the strategies.

我們——我們不適合在整個戰略中評論我們的法律思想。

So yes, we'll report accordingly and by the regulator towards this policy.

所以，是的，我們會據此報告，並由監管機構對這項政策進行報告。

So -- and on a tiny basis.

所以 - 在很小的基礎上。

But we would prefer not to comment during the call right now.

但我們現在不想在電話會議期間發表評論。

I see.

我懂了。

So from the financial perspective, I'm not sure if this will need to book some contingent lawsuit.

因此，從財務角度來看，我不確定這是否需要預訂一些或有訴訟。

I remember when I was in college and some contingency expense.

我記得我上大學的時候和一些應急費用。

Not sure if maybe this question is to Qi Dong whether we need to prove some contingency expense on that litigation issue?

不確定這個問題是否是向啟東提出的，我們是否需要在該訴訟問題上證明一些應急費用？

Well, UMC did not violate the Trade Secrets Act, which we are already have appeal to the appeal court in Taiwan.

嗯，聯電沒有違反商業秘密法，我們已經向台灣上訴法院提出上訴。

So it's a non-duty appeal.

所以這是一個非義務上訴。

So there's no reason for us to do the contingency estimate.

所以我們沒有理由做應急估計。

And however, our accounting book has always closed some small percentage of revenue as legal-related expenses.

然而，我們的會計賬簿總是將一小部分收入作為與法律相關的費用。

So those 2 things are not linked to each other, but we do have our own legal reserve, if you will, for all sort of general legal-related expenses.

所以這兩件事沒有相互聯繫，但我們確實有自己的法律儲備，如果你願意的話，用於各種一般的法律相關費用。

Got it.

知道了。

And my last one.

還有我的最後一個。

I would also like to add, the UMC, we have appointed a finance legal counsel and while legal team respond to this -- both litigation in U.S. and Taiwan.

我還想補充一點，聯華電子已經任命了一名財務法律顧問，而法律團隊對此做出了回應——包括美國和台灣的訴訟。

And so -- and at the same time, we will make every effort to enhance our profitability and preserve the better interest for our shareholders.

因此——與此同時，我們將盡一切努力提高我們的盈利能力並為我們的股東維護更好的利益。

So in case -- to mitigate potential risk.

因此，以防萬一——以減輕潛在風險。

But as far as the assessment for the risk, we truly not -- would not like to respond because at this point, it's related more of a speculation and hypothetical.

但就風險評估而言，我們真的不 - 不想回應，因為在這一點上，它更多地與猜測和假設有關。

So that's why it's a bit difficult for us to comment right now, yes.

所以這就是為什麼我們現在很難發表評論，是的。

Yes.

是的。

That is reasonable.

這是合理的。

And last one, maybe either Jason or Dong Liu can help me.

最後一個，也許傑森或劉東可以幫助我。

You said a company or the foundry overall seems to be still very healthy into second half.

你說一家公司或代工廠整體似乎在下半年仍然非常健康。

How do you reconcile the kind of pandemic or health care crisis with consumer demand versus your decent or good second half outlook?

您如何調和這種流行病或醫療保健危機與消費者需求與您體面或良好的下半年前景？

This is -- it's definitely a very interesting time right now.

這是 - 現在絕對是一個非常有趣的時刻。

Previously, if you remember, we actually talked about the inventory correction, potentially impacting demand during the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.

以前，如果您還記得的話，我們實際上談到了庫存修正，這可能會在 COVID-19 大流行初期影響需求。

However, now we actually have seen the inventory level increased a semiconductor vendor and OEMs have kept prebuilding in order to avoid supply chain disruption.

然而，現在我們實際上已經看到庫存水平增加了一家半導體供應商，並且 OEM 一直在進行預建以避免供應鏈中斷。

So -- and also business have to carry buffer inventory to accommodate a rebound of opportunity arising from the opening of economic -- economy.

因此，企業也必須持有緩衝庫存，以適應經濟開放帶來的機會反彈。

So we do see people view this a little bit different.

所以我們確實看到人們對此的看法有所不同。

It could be a new norm, okay?

這可能是一個新的規範，好嗎？

So we have a much better clarity now.

所以我們現在有了更好的清晰度。

And given that and our view on the overall demand outlook, we are not seeing a significant order cut at this time, and we will be cautiously optimistic in the second half.

鑑於這一點以及我們對整體需求前景的看法，我們目前沒有看到大幅削減訂單，我們將對下半年持謹慎樂觀態度。

Okay.

好的。

We expect more opportunity will be driven by the 5G handset and the PC.

我們預計 5G 手機和 PC 將推動更多機會。

Noble demand will pick out associated with the work-from-home and home schooling trend.

高尚的需求將與在家工作和在家上學的趨勢相關聯。

Despite the smartphone shipment actually declined this year, overall smartphone, but we expecting capture higher smartphone market share driven by the 5G handset launch.

儘管今年智能手機整體出貨量實際上有所下降，但我們預計在 5G 手機推出的推動下，智能手機市場份額會更高。

This year, we see about 200 million units or 20 million units from 2019.

今年，我們看到大約 2 億台或 2019 年的 2000 萬台。

And the silicon content of 5G phone will also increase such as PMIC and RF switch.

而5G手機的矽含量也會增加，比如PMIC和RF開關。

Well, this will actually position us to take advantage of that margin trend.

好吧，這實際上將使我們能夠利用這種利潤率趨勢。

Besides the significant 5G phone shipments, our customer also exciting to gain smartphone market share this year.

除了重要的 5G 手機出貨量外，我們的客戶今年也很高興獲得智能手機市場份額。

So this will more than offset the decline of the smartphone units that we see.

因此，這將抵消我們看到的智能手機數量的下降。

So that's why we actually have a higher competency in the second half outlook here.

所以這就是為什麼我們在下半年的前景中實際上有更高的能力。

And the next question is coming from Julie Tsai of UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Julie Tsai。

There's a lot of discussion about 28 just now.

剛才有很多關於28的討論。

Looking at your Q2 product breakdown, it is not very clear where the 28 application is coming from.

查看您的 Q2 產品細分，不清楚 28 應用程序的來源。

Could you give us a bit more detail on that?

你能給我們詳細介紹一下嗎？

You're talking about in Q2.

你說的是第二季度。

The increase in the 28-nanometer demand in Q2 is attributed to a communication and consumer, inter connectivity, AV baseband and in a 5G phone and as well as the work-from-home applications.

第二季度 28 納米需求的增長歸因於通信和消費者、互聯互通、AV 基帶和 5G 手機以及在家工作的應用。

That's where the mix of the 28-nanometers in Q2.

這就是第二季度 28 納米的混合。

I see.

我懂了。

And then also, you did mention that Q3 gross margin could be adversely impacted because of the NT dollar appreciation.

然後，您確實提到第三季度的毛利率可能會因為新台幣升值而受到不利影響。

But we're already seeing that happen in Q2.

但我們已經在第二季度看到了這種情況。

But are you also foreseeing that again to be adversely impacted in Q3, though?

但是，您是否也預見到第三季度會再次受到不利影響？

Yes.

是的。

The magnitude of $20 appreciation is actually more in third quarter than that in second quarter.

第三季度 20 美元的升值幅度實際上比第二季度更大。

So yes, we do foresee that to have some a negative impact for both our top line and bottom line.

所以是的，我們確實預見到這會對我們的頂線和底線產生一些負面影響。

The last question is coming from Randy Abrams, Crédit Suisse.

最後一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams。

Maybe just a follow-up to that last question on the 28.

也許只是對 28 日最後一個問題的跟進。

If you could give maybe a forward view -- you mentioned another surge of tape-outs.

如果你能給出一個前瞻性的看法——你提到了另一波流片。

Just talk a bit more about the new applications that you have coming on to that node over the next few quarters?

多談談你在接下來的幾個季度中進入該節點的新應用程序？

Well, I mean, it's very similar to the Q2.

嗯，我的意思是，它與第二季度非常相似。

We see the Q3 was driven by the -- I mentioned many times earlier, the smartphone and the continued demand in the computer segment.

我們看到第三季度是由我之前多次提到的智能手機和計算機領域的持續需求推動的。

And so the 28 were mainly driven by those 2 segments and not much change on a -- from a Q2.

因此，這 28 個主要由這兩個細分市場驅動，並且從第二季度開始並沒有太大變化。

It's very similar, yes.

非常相似，是的。

Okay.

好的。

The second question I wanted to ask is maybe the direction.

我想問的第二個問題可能是方向。

You talked about actually fairly good strength.

你說的實力其實還算不錯。

So I'm curious, fourth quarter, just an early look at it sometimes has a bit of seasonal decline, but just factoring your comments.

所以我很好奇，第四季度，只是早期看看它有時會有一點季節性下降，但只是考慮到你的評論。

If it looks like this year, based on your demand and customers wanting to carry inventory, if it looks like it's holding firm as we go toward year-end.

如果它看起來像今年，基於您的需求和想要攜帶庫存的客戶，如果它看起來像我們接近年底時保持堅挺。

And I'm curious, the other products, which I presume it's auto industrial, which is the weaker area, if you're seeing any signs of stabilization bottom out or recovery in that area?

我很好奇，其他產品，我認為是汽車工業，這是較弱的領域，如果你看到該領域有任何穩定觸底或複甦的跡象？

Well, I mean, the -- instead of talking about Q4, let's look at the past couple of quarters and this outlook in Q3.

好吧，我的意思是，讓我們看看過去幾個季度和第三季度的前景，而不是談論第四季度。

In those other areas, beside the communication, consumer and computing, we did to the other areas being up and down throughout the year so far.

在其他領域，除了通信、消費和計算之外，我們對其他領域的表現全年都在上下波動。

And we see a slowdown, we see a rebound and then we see a slowdown again.

我們看到放緩，我們看到反彈，然後我們再次看到放緩。

So I think given the discussion with the customer, we do see the market starting to stabilizing and starting to see the sign of recovery.

所以我認為鑑於與客戶的討論，我們確實看到市場開始企穩並開始看到復甦的跡象。

But given the past history of this year up -- being down and up and down, we just have to cautiously look at it.

但是考慮到今年過去的歷史 - 跌宕起伏，我們只需要謹慎看待它。

And I think if you're talking about Q4, we'll give you a much better clarity in the next conference call.

而且我認為，如果您在談論第四季度，我們將在下一次電話會議中為您提供更好的清晰度。

And ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for all your questions.

女士們，先生們，我們感謝你們提出的所有問題。

That concludes today's Q&A session.

今天的問答環節到此結束。

I'll turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

我將把事情交給 UMC IR 負責人結束髮言。

Thank you, everyone, for attending this conference today.

謝謝大家，今天參加這個會議。

We appreciate your questions.

我們感謝您的提問。

As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir@umc.com.

與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時通過 ir@umc.com 聯繫 UMC。

Have a good day.

祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our conference for second quarter 2020.

女士們，先生們，我們 2020 年第二季度的會議到此結束。

Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference.

感謝您參加聯電的會議。

There will be a webcast replay within an hour.

將在一小時內進行網絡直播重播。

Please visit www.umc.com, under the Investors Events section.

請訪問 www.umc.com 的“投資者活動”部分。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連接。

Goodbye.

再見。