聯華電子 (UMC) 2020 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to UMC's 2020 First Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet. Webcast replay will be available within an hour after the conference is finished. Please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations, Investors, Events section. And now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC. And Mr. Lin, please begin.

歡迎大家參加聯電 2020 年第一季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）供您參考，此電話會議現在正在互聯網上直播。會議結束後一小時內將提供網絡直播重播。請訪問我們的網站 www.umc.com，在“投資者關係”、“投資者”、“活動”部分下。現在我想介紹一下聯華電子投資者關係主管Michael Lin先生。林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to the UMC's conference call for the first quarter of 2020. I'm joined by Mr. SC Chien, the Co-President of UMC; and Mr. Qi Dong Liu, the CFO of UMC. In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the first quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's forecast and the second quarter 2020 guidance. Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session. UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors, Financials section.

謝謝大家，歡迎參加聯華電子 2020 年第一季度的電話會議。聯華電子聯席總裁 SC Chien 先生也加入了我的行列；以及聯電首席財務官劉啟東先生。稍後，我們將聽到我們的首席財務官介紹第一季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁關於處理 UMC 預測和 2020 年第二季度指導的關鍵信息。我們的總裁和首席財務官完成發言後，將進行問答環節。 UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的“投資者”、“財務”部分下獲取。

During this conference, we will make forward-looking statements based on the management's current expectation and beliefs. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond company's control. For these risks, please refer to UMC's filing with the SEC in the U.S. and the ROC security authorities.

在此次會議期間，我們將根據管理層目前的預期和信念做出前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定因素的影響，這些風險和不確定因素可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。有關這些風險，請參閱聯電向美國證券交易委員會和中華民國安全當局提交的文件。

Now I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Qi Dong Liu, to discuss our first quarter 2020 financial results.

現在我想介紹聯華電子的首席財務官劉啟東先生，討論我們 2020 年第一季度的財務業績。

Thank you, Michael. I would like to go through the first quarter 2020 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded from our website. Starting on Page 3. The first quarter of 2020, consolidated revenue was TWD 42.27 billion, with the gross margin at around 19.2%. The net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 2.21 billion and the earnings per ordinary shares were TWD 0.19. Our capacity utilization rate in the first quarter was 93% versus 92% in the previous quarter and 83% in the same first quarter of 2019.

謝謝你，邁克爾。我想看一下 2020 年第一季度投資者會議的演示材料，可以從我們的網站下載。從第3頁開始。2020年第一季度綜合收入為新台幣422.7億元，毛利率約為19.2%。歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為新台幣22.1億元，每股普通股收益為新台幣0.19元。我們第一季度的產能利用率為 93%，而上一季度為 92%，2019 年第一季度為 83%。

For Page 4, as we discussed earlier, sequential growth is about 1% to TWD 42.2 billion for operating revenue. Gross margin almost quadrupled -- sorry, almost reached 20%. It's around 19.2% of gross margin rate or TWD 8.1 billion. And operating income is TWD 3.4 billion or 8.1% operating income percentage. And because of the global stock market meltdown, we book an unrealized mark-to-market investment loss nearly of TWD 2 billion in the first quarter of 2020, which result in about TWD 2.59 billion of net nonoperating losses. And as a result, our net income attributable to stockholder of the parent in the first quarter of 2020 was TWD 2.2 billion or in equivalent of TWD 0.19 in midyear.

對於第 4 頁，正如我們之前討論的那樣，營業收入的環比增長約為 1%，達到 422 億新台幣。毛利率幾乎翻了兩番——抱歉，幾乎達到了 20%。毛利率約為 19.2% 或新台幣 81 億元。營業收入為新台幣 34 億元或營業收入百分比 8.1%。由於全球股市崩盤，我們在 2020 年第一季度計入了近 20 億新台幣的未實現市值投資損失，這導致了約 25.9 億新台幣的淨非經營虧損。因此，我們 2020 年第一季度歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為新台幣 22 億元，相當於年中新台幣 0.19 元。

On Page 5, for year-over-year comparison, our revenue grew by nearly 30%, to 42.6% (sic) [TWD 42.27 billion], from the same period of last year, and gross margin almost quadrupled here to TWD 8.1 billion compared to TWD 2.26 billion in the first quarter of 2019. And operating expenses has increased about 16%, largely due to the combination of USJC, which we acquired October 1 of last year. And net earning is about TWD 0.19 versus TWD 0.1 in the same quarter of last year.

在第 5 頁，與去年同期相比，我們的收入比去年同期增長了近 30%，達到 42.6%（原文如此）[422.7 億新台幣]，毛利率幾乎翻了兩番，達到 81 億新台幣與 2019 年第一季度的 22.6 億新台幣相比。營業費用增加了約 16%，這主要是由於我們去年 10 月 1 日收購的 USJC 的合併。淨利潤約為 0.19 新台幣，而去年同期為 0.1 新台幣。

For Page 6, our cash on hand has reached TWD 95 billion, and total equity for the company is about TWD 210 billion.

第6頁，我們手頭現金達950億新台幣，公司總股本約2100億新台幣。

On Page 7, our quarterly ASP is down a little bit in the first quarter by low single digit. And next page for revenue breakdown by geography, Asia represents 56% of our total revenue, while U.S. is about 29%. For IDM, remain now almost unchanged, around 12% versus the last quarter of 13%. And communication remains at 40 -- 54% of the pie, which is the largest shares of our application breakdown.

在第 7 頁，我們的季度平均售價在第一季度略有下降，降幅為低個位數。下一頁按地域劃分的收入細分，亞洲占我們總收入的 56%，而美國約為 29%。對於 IDM，現在幾乎保持不變，約為 12%，而上一季度為 13%。通信仍然佔餡餅的 40-54%，這是我們應用程序細分的最大份額。

For technology breakdown, 40-nanometer grew to 25% from the 22% in the previous quarter. 28-nanometer represent about 9% of the revenue, which was mainly because of our larger revenue base. And first quarter, we have quite a few scheduled fab maintenance, brand new fab maintenance. So there's not much growth in the capacity, but the growth of capacity will be more significant in the pie, not really significant, but will be more noticeable in the second quarter, mainly coming from Fab 8N, our HeJian fab as well as some increase -- incremental increase in 12A.

對於技術細分，40 納米從上一季度的 22% 增長到 25%。 28 納米約佔收入的 9%，這主要是因為我們的收入基數較大。第一季度，我們有相當多的定期晶圓廠維護，全新的晶圓廠維護。所以產能沒有太大的增長，但是在餅裡面產能的增長會比較顯著，不是很顯著，但是第二季度會比較明顯，主要是8N晶圓廠，我們的河間晶圓廠還有一些增長——增量增加12A。

And our CapEx remains unchanged at USD 1 billion. About 85% of the capacity expansion related CapEx goes to 12-inch. So the above is the summary of UMC's results for first quarter of 2020. More details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

我們的資本支出保持在 10 億美元不變。大約 85% 的與資本支出相關的產能擴張用於 12 英寸。以上是聯華電子 2020 年第一季度的業績摘要。更多詳情請參閱已發佈在我們網站上的報告。

I will now turn the call over to President of UMC, Mr. SC Chien.

我現在將把電話轉給 UMC 總裁 SC Chien 先生。

Yes, thank you, Qi Dong. Good evening, everyone. Here, I would like to update the first quarter operating result of UMC. In the first quarter, foundry revenue grew 1.0% Q-over-Q to TWD 42.27 billion, leading to a foundry operating margin of 8.2%. Utilization rate increased slightly to 93%, bringing wafer shipments to TWD 2.15 million, 8-inch equivalent wafers, primarily attributed to display driver demand in consumer and the communication devices. The demand in consumer IC partially reflected work-from-home initiatives adopted in many areas around the world to combat the spread of COVID-19.

是的，謝謝你，啟東。各位晚上好。在這裡，我想更新一下聯華電子第一季度的經營業績。第一季度，晶圓代工收入環比增長 1.0% 至新台幣 422.7 億元，晶圓代工營業利潤率為 8.2%。利用率小幅上升至 93%，使晶圓出貨量達到 215 萬新台幣，相當於 8 英寸晶圓，主要歸因於消費和通信設備對顯示驅動器的需求。消費類 IC 的需求部分反映了全球許多地區為對抗 COVID-19 的傳播而採取的在家工作的舉措。

As the pandemic continues to impact populations across the globe, UMC has given priority to all wafer manufacturing of medical-related IC so that hospitals and the care centers receive the equipment they need in the shortest time possible in order to deal with the coronavirus. We will continue to commit all resources within our means to accelerate the shipments of health care-related IC in the universal fight against COVID-19.

隨著疫情繼續影響全球人口，聯華電子已優先考慮所有醫療相關 IC 的晶圓製造，以便醫院和護理中心在盡可能短的時間內獲得所需的設備，以應對冠狀病毒。我們將繼續投入力所能及的所有資源，以加快與 COVID-19 的全球鬥爭中與醫療保健相關的 IC 的出貨量。

Looking into the second quarter of 2020, despite significantly higher levels of uncertainty caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, current outlook indicates slightly higher wafer demand, mainly supported by inventory replacement across computer peripheral and the consumer electronics end market. We will continue to monitor market dynamics. Meanwhile, we anticipate a surge in the number of customer 28-nanometer tape-out in the first half of 2020. While we strive to maintain the business momentum attained during the first quarter, UMC's corporate strategy of delivering a high dividend payout ratio remains intact.

展望 2020 年第二季度，儘管 COVID-19 大流行造成的不確定性明顯增加，但目前的前景表明晶圓需求略有增加，這主要受到計算機外圍設備和消費電子終端市場庫存置換的支持。我們將繼續關注市場動態。同時，我們預計 2020 年上半年客戶 28 納米流片數量將激增。在我們努力保持第一季度取得的業務勢頭的同時，聯華電子提供高派息率的企業戰略保持不變.

In Q1, our Board of Directors proposed to distribute a cash dividend of approximately TWD 0.75 per share subject to shareholder approval during the annual shareholder meeting. We will also continue to strengthen our financial structure, while gaining additional market share by executing our technology development and the corporate strategy. As the world navigates the COVID-19 situation, UMC is committed to the philosophy of employee care, environmental focus and public service, while furthering sustainable development and corporate social responsibility. We will confront this challenge together with our employees, shareholders and the suppliers. We also deeply appreciate the efforts of all the front line professionals confronting this pandemic, and we'll continue to support our communities in Taiwan and abroad.

第一季度，我們的董事會提議在年度股東大會上經股東批准派發每股約新台幣 0.75 元的現金股息。我們還將繼續加強我們的財務結構，同時通過執行我們的技術開發和企業戰略來獲得更多的市場份額。隨著世界應對 COVID-19 局勢，聯電致力於員工關懷、環境關注和公共服務的理念，同時進一步推進可持續發展和企業社會責任。我們將與我們的員工、股東和供應商一起應對這一挑戰。我們也非常感謝所有前線專業人員為應對這一流行病所做的努力，我們將繼續支持我們在台灣和海外的社區。

Let's move on to second quarter 2020 guidance. Our wafer shipments will increase by 1% to 2%. ASP in U.S. dollar is expected to increase by 1% to 2%. The gross profit margin will be approximately 20%. The capacity utilization rate will be in the mid-90% range. Our 2020 CapEx budget will be USD 1 billion. That concludes my comments. Thank you all for your attention. Now we are ready for questions.

讓我們繼續討論 2020 年第二季度的指南。我們的晶圓出貨量將增加 1% 到 2%。以美元計算的平均售價預計將增長 1% 至 2%。毛利率約為20%。產能利用率將在90%左右。我們 2020 年的資本支出預算將為 10 億美元。我的評論到此結束。謝謝大家的關注。現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) And the first question is coming from Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Crédit Suisse 的 Randy Abrams。

Okay, yes. Good job on the results and margins. If I could ask the first question on your 2020 outlook. It looks like based on the guidance for Q2, you could get to mid-teens growth for the year with a flat third and fourth quarter. Could you give an updated view if you still expect to have that type of growth for the year? Or if you expect any inventory correction in the second half? And if you could also elaborate through the last few weeks of April, how have the customer order trends tracked just over the last few weeks?

好的，是的。在結果和利潤方面做得很好。如果我可以問第一個關於你 2020 年展望的問題。看起來根據第二季度的指導，你可以在第三和第四季度持平的情況下實現今年的中期增長。如果您仍然期望今年有這種增長，您能否提供更新的觀點？或者您是否預計下半年會有庫存調整？如果您還可以詳細說明 4 月的最後幾週，過去幾週的客戶訂單趨勢如何跟踪？

I think maybe we start it with updated view on the semi industry. After the COVID-19, we do expect to see a mid-single-digit decline of the global semiconductor market. However, for various reasons, we still expect to see foundry segment to grow by about low single digit. And as for UMC, under this updated big picture view, we expect to show meaningful growth over the foundry industry, if you include our recently acquired USJC revenues. Even you exclude the USJC revenue, we're still comfortable to say that we should be able to grow in line or even outgrow a little bit of the global foundry segment. So that's our current view for UMC versus the industry under the new impact from the COVID-19.

我想也許我們可以從對半導體行業的最新觀點開始。在 COVID-19 之後，我們確實預計全球半導體市場將出現中等個位數的下滑。然而，由於各種原因，我們仍然預計晶圓代工業務將以低個位數增長。至於聯電，在這個更新的大局視圖下，如果包括我們最近收購的 USJC 收入，我們預計代工行業將出現有意義的增長。即使你排除了 USJC 的收入，我們仍然可以放心地說，我們應該能夠保持增長，甚至超過全球代工部門的一點點增長。這就是我們目前對 UMC 與受 COVID-19 新影響的行業的看法。

As for customers, we think the order cut is inevitable. Even though for the second quarter, we still manage to be able to mitigate certain order adjustment. But our quarter 2 outlook is still stable. But for the second half, because of the mounting uncertainties, it's really difficult for us right now to pinpoint what's going to happen in the sector as well as for UMC's order trend. So all we can say is quarter 2, we are somewhat intact, but the order cancellation might be inevitable. But we really cannot see through the second half yet.

至於客戶，我們認為訂單減少是不可避免的。即使對於第二季度，我們仍然能夠減輕某些訂單調整的影響。但我們對第二季度的展望仍然穩定。但對於下半年，由於不確定性越來越大，我們現在真的很難確定該行業會發生什麼以及聯電的訂單趨勢。所以我們只能說第二季度，我們還算完好，但訂單取消可能是不可避免的。但下半場我們真的還看不透。

Okay. The second question, you talked about the strong tape-out activity continuing on 28. Could you discuss from this level how you expect 28 to scale as a percent of revenue through second half? And do you also see any sensitivity on timing or ramp of these projects due to the macro? So some of the projects like the OLED, the ISP, WiFi 6 or PMIC, if you see any change factoring the macro or you still expect that to ramp?

好的。第二個問題，你談到了 28 日繼續進行的強勁流片活動。你能否從這個層面討論你預計 28 將如何在下半年擴大收入百分比？您是否還看到由於宏觀因素而對這些項目的時間或增長有任何敏感性？那麼一些項目，如 OLED、ISP、WiFi 6 或 PMIC，如果你看到任何影響宏的變化，或者你仍然期望它會增加？

Okay. I think for the 28 project, as you just mentioned, I think, so far, all the projects are still on track. We do not see any change from customer side yet. But based on this pandemic situation, there are some uncertainties there. But we still have a look at it in a positive way that so far, the progress is on track. Of course, there could be some impact, but recently, what we are talking about is more on the new application, new project and not existing product line.

好的。我覺得對於28個項目，正如你剛才提到的，我認為，到目前為止，所有的項目都在進行中。我們還沒有看到客戶方面有任何變化。但從這次疫情來看，存在一些不確定性。但我們仍然以積極的方式看待它，到目前為止，進展順利。當然，可能會有一些影響，但最近，我們談論的更多是新應用、新項目，而不是現有的產品線。

Okay. And how would it translate if they continue to track? Do you have a feel that could grow as a percent of revenue if you see those ramping in the second half?

好的。如果他們繼續跟踪，它將如何翻譯？如果您看到下半年收入增加，您是否覺得收入的百分比會增長？

Okay. I think the 28 contribution in second quarter 2020 is expected to increase, okay? I think mainly because of higher demand in the second quarter, especially for the 4G segment, and also have higher AMOLED adoption rate, okay? As this -- and also for the multi-camera module trend continue to take place. For those mid-end and entry-level models, that's what we see. So we do have some good expectation for that, yes.

好的。我覺得2020年二季度的28貢獻有望增加，好嗎？我認為主要是因為第二季度的需求更高，尤其是 4G 領域，而且 AMOLED 的採用率也更高，好嗎？因此——多攝像頭模塊的趨勢也在繼續發生。對於那些中端和入門級模型，這就是我們所看到的。所以我們對此有一些很好的期望，是的。

Yes. If I may add on that, we don't really provide a percentage of revenue for any geometry. However, I think our view is that the quarter 1 should be the trough of 28 revenue in terms of percentage of total revenue.

是的。如果我可以補充一點，我們並沒有真正提供任何幾何體的收入百分比。但是，我認為我們的觀點是，就收入佔總收入的百分比而言，第一季度應該是 28 家收入的低谷。

Okay. And one last question. For the gross margins, maybe for Qi Dong on where you reported high teens and guiding to 20%. Is that purely a function of the better utilization and also better loading 40? Or is there another improvement going on? And as 28 starts to grow as a percent of sales, filling that capacity, would that help the overall corporate margin expand a bit further? Or would it be a dilutive?

好的。最後一個問題。對於毛利率，也許對於 Qi Dong 來說，你報告了高青少年並指導到 20%。這純粹是更好的利用率和更好的負載 40 的功能嗎？還是有其他改進正在進行？隨著 28 開始佔銷售額的百分比增長，填補了該產能，這是否有助於公司整體利潤率進一步擴大？還是會稀釋？

Yes. Certainly, the recovery of our 28-nanometer business will certainly help our overall corporate gross margin as well as our operating profit margins. For second quarter, we do expect the higher 12-inch loadings, especially in demand related to 28-nanometer will help to drive the gross margin expansion coupled with 8-inch capacity likely to run at full capacity utilization rate in the second quarter. And of course, we continue to work on product mix enhancement as well as production cost reduction.

是的。當然，我們 28 納米業務的複蘇肯定會幫助我們的整體公司毛利率以及我們的營業利潤率。對於第二季度，我們確實預計更高的 12 英寸裝載量，尤其是與 28 納米相關的需求將有助於推動毛利率擴張，加上第二季度 8 英寸產能可能以滿負荷運轉。當然，我們將繼續致力於提高產品組合以及降低生產成本。

And next we'll have Roland Shu of Citigroup for questions.

接下來我們將請花旗集團的 Roland Shu 提問。

First question, I would like to ask about your blended ASP. So in first quarter, your blended ASP declined slightly. If I have a look at -- of your product mix then for 90-nanometer and below, I think the percentage as a -- the total revenue was the same as 4Q. And also, you have a little bit lower contribution from 90-nanometer but higher contribution from 40-nanometer. So explain, on this kind of product mix change, why you still see the ASP, blended ASP decline in first quarter?

第一個問題，我想問一下你們的混合 ASP。所以在第一季度，你們的混合 ASP 略有下降。如果我看一下 - 您的產品組合，然後是 90 納米及以下，我認為百分比 - 總收入與第四季度相同。而且，90 納米的貢獻略低，但 40 納米的貢獻更高。那麼解釋一下，在這種產品組合變化中，為什麼你仍然看到第一季度平均售價、混合平均售價下降？

First of all, the first quarter ASP declined by about 1%, so really a minor change. And secondly, the reason as I explained in the opening remarks is mainly because we actually experienced more 8-inch revenue contribution than anything else. Of course, you can say that there's not much growth for 28-nanometer segment. But we do expect that situation will change in the second quarter as we are guiding for 1% to 2% increase in the second quarter for ASP.

首先，第一季度 ASP 下降了約 1%，變化很小。其次，正如我在開場白中解釋的那樣，主要是因為我們實際上體驗到 8 英寸的收入貢獻比其他任何東西都多。當然，你可以說28納米部分增長不大。但我們確實預計第二季度情況會發生變化，因為我們指導第二季度平均售價增長 1% 至 2%。

Okay. So the second quarter ASP increase is mainly from the product mix change for more contribution from 12-inch?

好的。那麼第二季度平均售價的增長主要來自產品結構變化，更多來自 12 英寸的貢獻？

That's correct.

這是正確的。

Do you see any seasonal ASP erosion in first quarter and the second quarter?

您是否看到第一季度和第二季度的季節性平均售價下降？

I think that's inevitable for certain large long-term customer, although right now, for example, for 8-inch wafers is nearly at full capacity utilization rate. So it's very unlikely we will see a price erosion. But I think for selective large long-term 12-inch related, especially high end, that would be inevitable. That's a industry practice, common practice.

我認為這對於某些大的長期客戶來說是不可避免的，儘管現在，例如 8 英寸晶圓的產能利用率接近滿負荷。因此，我們不太可能看到價格下跌。但我認為對於選擇性大長期12寸相關，尤其是高端，那將是不可避免的。這是行業慣例，普遍做法。

Okay. And second question, I would like to see your view for this supply chain inventory. How do you think about this supply chain inventory level? And also for the customer side, do you think our customers are willing to take more inventory to ensure no supply chain disruption in the near term? Or our customer actually is thinking up this, will turn more conservative for stop taking the inventory because of the demand weakening?

好的。第二個問題，我想看看你對這個供應鏈庫存的看法。您如何看待這個供應鏈庫存水平？還有對於客戶方面，您認為我們的客戶是否願意增加庫存以確保短期內供應鏈不會中斷？還是我們的客戶真的在想這個，會因為需求減弱而變得更加保守而停止庫存？

Yes. First of all, the customer order cut might be inevitable in the second half, as we highlighted. Although we don't really have the certain -- the crystal ball to tell the magnitude. But based upon the impact of COVID-19 at -- on the end market, here is what we have observed, it's actually differs -- different by customer segment. So some customer in last year, 2019, we have already experienced a weak year. We believe those customers that their inventory level, even at the impact of COVID-19 is pretty lean, I think.

是的。首先，正如我們強調的那樣，下半年客戶訂單削減可能是不可避免的。雖然我們並沒有真正的確定——水晶球來告訴我們規模。但基於 COVID-19 對終端市場的影響，這是我們觀察到的，實際上是不同的——因客戶群而異。所以一些客戶在去年，2019年，我們已經經歷了疲軟的一年。我認為，我們相信那些客戶即使在 COVID-19 的影響下，他們的庫存水平也非常低。

For some other customers who are actually concerned about capacity support, we do foresee inventory correction in the second half. All the cuts from those customers will be (inaudible). However, the magnitude will be uncertain. And lastly, we hope through our effort in customer engagement, the diversification of our product pipeline and increasing penetration in wireless segment will soften the correction.

對於其他一些實際上關心產能支持的客戶，我們確實預見到下半年的庫存調整。這些客戶的所有削減都將是（聽不清）。但是，幅度將不確定。最後，我們希望通過我們在客戶參與方面的努力，我們產品線的多樣化和無線領域滲透率的提高將緩和修正。

Understood. But for the technology node point of view, I think the last quarter, you expect some demand on 8-inch or 0.18-micron and below, and your demand was strong and with this tight utilization. And this is also will stand for 12-inch mature node from 90-nanometer to 40-nanometer. So you still think or hold the same view for this thing -- let's say, for these technology nodes and the technology, and the demand will be still strong and the capacity will be still tight through end of this year?

明白了。但從技術節點的角度來看，我認為上個季度，你預計對 8 英寸或 0.18 微米及以下的需求會有一些需求，而且你的需求很強勁，而且利用率很緊。而這也將代表12英寸從90納米到40納米的成熟節點。所以你對這件事仍然認為或持有相同的觀點 - 比如說，對於這些技術節點和技術，到今年年底，需求仍然強勁，產能仍然緊張？

Yes. For second quarter, we actually guide mid-90% and that's virtually full capacity utilization rate. Except for (inaudible) segment in second quarter. So everything except for very leading-edge, (inaudible) related is almost full at -- in the second quarter.

是的。對於第二季度，我們實際上指導 90% 左右，這幾乎是全部產能利用率。除了第二季度的（聽不清）部分。因此，除了非常領先的（聽不清）相關的一切，在第二季度幾乎都已滿。

Understood. Yes. And lastly, I would like to follow up Randy's question for the whole year growth point of view for UMC because I did not hear you clearly. So can you repeat what's your view for the foundry and UMC's growth outlook this year?

明白了。是的。最後，我想跟進 Randy 關於 UMC 全年增長觀點的問題，因為我沒有聽清楚。那麼您能否重複一下您對晶圓代工和聯電今年增長前景的看法？

So the updated view for the semi globally is a decline by mid-single digits. But the foundry can continue to grow, but the -- at a lower rate, around low single digit. And UMC, with the combination of USJC, we should be able to comfortably beat the foundry market growth rate. Even without USJC, we should be able to grow in line or slightly better than your global foundry market.

因此，半全球的最新觀點是下降了中個位數。但是鑄造廠可以繼續增長，但是 - 以較低的速度，大約低個位數。而聯電，加上USJC，應該可以輕鬆跑贏晶圓代工市場的成長速度。即使沒有 USJC，我們也應該能夠與你們的全球代工市場保持一致或略好於你們的增長。

And the next one is coming from Bruce of Goldman Sachs.

下一個來自高盛的布魯斯。

Can I ask a question again about the gross margin and operating margins. So first of all, what's the key differences between your guidance versus your delivery, which is gross margin at 19%, the revenue is pretty much in line. Why the gross margin is so much higher? Or at least at the very, very high end of the guidance? The second thing is that I'm so happy to see that operating expenses, especially for R&D expenses declined quite a bit in first quarter 2020, almost down to 7.5% of total revenue. Do we expect like this could be the new norm for the R&D expenses? So what is the key to drive the lower R&D expense? That was my first question.

我可以再問一個關於毛利率和營業利潤率的問題嗎？因此，首先，您的指導與交付之間的主要區別是什麼，毛利率為 19%，收入幾乎符合要求。為什麼毛利率高這麼多？或者至少在指南的非常非常高端？第二件事是，我很高興看到運營費用，尤其是研發費用在 2020 年第一季度下降了很多，幾乎下降到總收入的 7.5%。我們是否期望這可能成為研發費用的新常態？那麼降低研發費用的關鍵是什麼？這是我的第一個問題。

So first of all, regarding gross margin doing better than guidance is because we do have a stronger quarter 2 outlook and wafer in the pipeline actually represent a better-than-expected loadings. So overall, the wafer shipment and also wafer being produced is higher than expected. So our unit cost is slightly lower than how we expected when we gave the first quarter guidance. So the actual loading in Q1 was 93% versus original 90% guidance.

因此，首先，關於毛利率優於指導是因為我們確實有更強勁的第二季度前景，而管道中的晶圓實際上代表了好於預期的裝載量。因此，總體而言，晶圓出貨量和正在生產的晶圓都高於預期。因此，我們的單位成本略低於我們給出第一季度指導時的預期。因此，第一季度的實際負載為 93%，而最初的指導值為 90%。

Does that mean that your outlook for second quarter is better than what you have like 3 months ago?

這是否意味著您對第二季度的展望比 3 個月前要好？

Exactly. The production pipeline, yes. So for me to reply partially in the number I just gave you, the actual loading was 93% versus guidance of 90%.

確切地。生產流水線，是的。因此，對於我剛才給你的數字的部分答复，實際負載為 93%，而指導值為 90%。

I see.

我懂了。

And of course, we also try pretty hard, our President that we continue to lower our manufacturing costs. So there's also some factor related to cost reduction effort.

當然，我們也非常努力，我們的總裁，我們繼續降低製造成本。因此，還有一些與降低成本相關的因素。

So what is a -- excluding that better outlook for the second quarter, what would be the new norm for the gross margin? I think that's the most important expectation we want to have for the investors though.

那麼什麼是 - 排除第二季度更好的前景，毛利率的新標準是什麼？我認為這是我們希望對投資者產生的最重要的期望。

Yes. There is really no answer for that. There's too many factors in combined to determine the gross margin, always do. What we can say is we will continue to drive our cost reduction effort and at the same time, try to enhance product mix. Most importantly, we'd like to see a meaningful increase in our 28-nanometer capacity utilization rate that for the time being, is probably the key -- single key factor to drive the upside of our overall gross margin.

是的。真的沒有答案。總的來說，決定毛利率的因素太多了。我們可以說的是，我們將繼續努力降低成本，同時努力加強產品組合。最重要的是，我們希望看到我們的 28 納米產能利用率顯著提高，這可能是目前推動我們整體毛利率上升的關鍵因素。

And the second question regarding your OpEx issue. So for our OpEx in Q1, I think it's a bit slower than norm in actual dollar terms. However, we continue -- again, we will try to put our effort to bring down the operating expenses. But when we have better profit, we also have to book a higher employee bonus as a provision. So then that's a kind of dilemma to the overall operating expenses, one of the factors. But again, we can say that the -- it is unlikely to increase as a percent at a absolute dollar terms for OpEx. And hopefully, through the increase of our revenue, we will continue to see percentage of revenue for both in operating expenses, and R&D can continue to come down gradually.

第二個問題是關於您的運營支出問題。因此，對於我們第一季度的運營支出，我認為以實際美元計算，它比正常情況要慢一些。然而，我們繼續——再次，我們將努力降低運營費用。但是當我們有更好的利潤時，我們也必須計入更高的員工獎金作為撥備。那麼這就是整體運營費用的一種困境，這是一個因素。但同樣，我們可以說 - 它不太可能以絕對美元計算的 OpEx 增加百分比。希望通過我們收入的增加，我們將繼續看到這兩種收入在運營費用中所佔的百分比，並且研發可以繼續逐漸下降。

I don't want to give you unrealistic expectation that this number will see further reduction or can stay at the current level for a long time.

我不想給你不切實際的期望，即這個數字會進一步減少，或者可以長期保持在目前的水平。

I see. But the first quarter earnings is pretty good. Do we incorporate employee bonus within the first quarter operating expenses already?

我懂了。但第一季度的收益相當不錯。我們是否已經將員工獎金納入第一季度的運營支出？

Already, yes.

已經，是的。

Still very good.

還是很不錯的。

Thank you. We want to do better. Yes.

謝謝你。我們想做得更好。是的。

Okay. The next question is for the 28-nanometer. I mean, management mentioned that the 28 demand, one of them is driven by the 5G as well as some of the overflow business. So with recent correction in terms of like smartphone shipment or the penetration rate changes in terms of 5G smartphone in later part of this year, do you expect that will have any impact for your 28-nanometer's revenue in second half?

好的。下一個問題是關於 28 納米的。我的意思是，管理層提到 28 個需求，其中一個是由 5G 以及一些溢出業務驅動的。因此，隨著最近智能手機出貨量的調整或今年下半年 5G 智能手機的滲透率變化，您預計這會對下半年 28 納米的收入產生任何影響嗎？

Okay. I think we do expect smartphone shipments will decline, okay, year-over-year. Especially I think in the second half. However, we hope that higher penetration rates in the wireless segment will help to offset the macro impact, yes, to UMC.

好的。我認為我們確實預計智能手機出貨量會同比下降。特別是我認為在下半場。然而，我們希望無線領域更高的滲透率將有助於抵消宏觀影響，是的，對聯電的影響。

I'm sorry, I don't quite get it. You mean that your revenue exposure to communication is higher. That's why you can have stronger revenue to...

對不起，我不太明白。您的意思是您的通信收入更高。這就是為什麼您可以獲得更高的收入...

What I'm trying to say is that we have higher penetration rate in our wireless segment by new customer and our customer gaining the market share in the smartphone wireless area.

我想說的是，新客戶在無線領域的滲透率更高，我們的客戶在智能手機無線領域獲得了市場份額。

I see. I see. I understand. So your current outlook for the second half in 28 nanometers remain unchanged compared to 3 months ago?

我懂了。我懂了。我明白。那麼，與 3 個月前相比，您目前對 28 納米下半年的展望保持不變？

I think we still have some uncertainty due to the COVID-19. But so far, as the data we have, yes, that's what I'm trying to say, yes.

我認為由於 COVID-19，我們仍然存在一些不確定性。但到目前為止，根據我們擁有的數據，是的，這就是我想說的，是的。

So you -- so for your 28-nanometer capacity expansion plan also remain unchanged?

那麼你——那麼你的 28 納米產能擴張計劃也保持不變嗎？

Yes, currently, based on our alignment with customers, we still don't see the change. But of course, we will continue to align with customers based on the COVID-19 situation, a very dynamic change, yes. So we should continue to align with customers. So far there's no change.

是的，目前，根據我們與客戶的一致性，我們仍然看不到變化。但當然，我們將繼續根據 COVID-19 的情況與客戶保持一致，這是一個非常動態的變化，是的。所以我們應該繼續與客戶保持一致。到目前為止沒有任何變化。

And the next question is coming from Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

A couple of things. First of all, could you talk a little bit about what is your outlook for 8-inch capacity utilization and demand through the rest of the year, especially, I think first half has been pretty tight with full capacity? Second question, when you talk about potential for order cuts and inventory correction in second half, could you give us some idea about which segments would you see the bigger cuts? Which segment do you think is going to be more resilient for you a bit in -- a bit more detail? I think especially given that you mentioned that you're gaining some share in the wireless, especially on image camera-related components, et cetera?

幾件事。首先，您能否談談您對今年餘下時間 8 英寸產能利用率和需求的展望，特別是，我認為上半年已經非常緊張，滿負荷生產？第二個問題，當你談到下半年訂單削減和庫存調整的可能性時，你能否告訴我們你會看到哪些部分的削減幅度更大？你認為哪個部分對你來說更有彈性——更詳細一點？我認為特別是考慮到您提到您在無線領域獲得了一些份額，尤其是在與圖像相機相關的組件等方面？

And lastly, a quick question on USJC fab status. I think last time we checked, I think it was kind of close to breakeven. What do you think is the status for the customers in USJC, given that they have a lot of automotive, industrial kind of exposure, which seems to be a little bit weaker than the overall semiconductor industry. Are you able to move some of your design wins into that fab already? Or that's going to take some more time?

最後，關於 USJC 晶圓廠狀態的快速問題。我想上次我們檢查時，我認為它有點接近收支平衡。你認為 USJC 的客戶狀況如何，因為他們有很多汽車、工業類的風險敞口，這似乎比整個半導體行業要弱一些。您是否已經能夠將您的一些設計成果轉移到該晶圓廠中？或者這需要更多時間？

Okay. I think I may answer the first one. I think the 8-inch growth -- we expect our 8-inch will operate at utilization in the second quarter, okay? And we also foresee that 8-inch utilization will remain full, okay, mainly driven by the solid demand outlook in power, MCU and display-related requirements, okay? And as for the USJC, the question is how is the loading situation? And do we transfer the new pipeline product to there yet? Okay.

好的。我想我可以回答第一個。我認為 8 英寸的增長——我們預計我們的 8 英寸將在第二季度達到利用率，好嗎？而且我們還預見到 8 英寸的利用率將保持完整，好吧，主要是受電源、MCU 和顯示器相關要求的穩固需求前景推動，好嗎？至於USJC，問題是裝載情況如何？我們是否將新的管道產品轉移到那裡？好的。

I think, yes, we do -- or started to do the technology transfer, okay? But that still may take 1 more quarter to gain some business, okay? I think 12-inch, so far, the profitability in the first quarter has improved Q-over-Q. So we have already set up the profitability target based on the fab's condition and cost structure. I think so far, the synergy has already seen a good result, okay? So I think we are doing good for USJC integration so far. Yes.

我想，是的，我們這樣做了——或者開始進行技術轉讓，好嗎？但這可能還需要 1 個季度才能獲得一些業務，好嗎？我認為 12 英寸，到目前為止，第一季度的盈利能力已經提高了 Q-over-Q。所以我們已經根據晶圓廠的條件和成本結構設定了盈利目標。我想到目前為止，協同效應已經看到了很好的結果，好嗎？所以我認為到目前為止，我們在 USJC 整合方面做得很好。是的。

So for second half sector outlook in terms of product cut. Again, all we can say is all we mentioned earlier that there are different categories of customers. For example, the automotive one may have already started inventory production back in 2019. So we don't really expect the inventory level for automotive-related is too high. However, for those customers who are requiring capacity support, and we do foresee in second half, they may show a stronger magnitude in terms of order cuts and again, we really hope through our customer engagement and more diversified clientele base, we should be able to offset some of that, if not all.

因此，對於下半年產品削減的行業前景。同樣，我們所能說的就是我們之前提到的所有不同類別的客戶。例如，汽車行業可能早在 2019 年就開始了庫存生產。因此我們並不認為汽車相關的庫存水平會太高。然而，對於那些需要產能支持的客戶，我們確實預見到下半年，他們可能會在訂單削減方面表現出更大的幅度，我們真的希望通過我們的客戶參與和更多元化的客戶群，我們應該能夠抵消其中的一部分，如果不是全部的話。

And the next one is coming from Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

下一位來自華興資本的 Szeho Ng。

I just want to ask a question regarding tax. When I look at the Q1 number, for the last couple of years, actually, the company book a tax credit in Q1 every year. Is it just a coincidence? Or are there any specific reasons behind?

我只想問一個關於稅的問題。當我查看第一季度的數字時，實際上，在過去的幾年裡，公司每年都會在第一季度登記稅收抵免。這只是巧合嗎？或者背後有什麼具體原因？

I think for tax, I think they always book a little bit higher expenses, so the normal tax rate first. And through all the effort by taking a qualified incentive program, et cetera, you get some cash returns. And that's what happened in the first quarter of this year. That is not unknown. Our corporate tax rate still stays around 15% or so.

我認為對於稅收，我認為他們總是預訂高一點的費用，所以首先是正常稅率。通過採取合格的激勵計劃等所有努力，您可以獲得一些現金回報。這就是今年第一季度發生的事情。這不是未知的。我們的公司稅率仍然保持在 15% 左右。

Okay. All right. Okay. Second question regarding Q2. You gave out the quarterly guidance, but how would the monthly pattern be shaping up? Anything you can share?

好的。好的。好的。關於 Q2 的第二個問題。你給出了季度指導，但月度模式將如何形成？有什麼可以分享的嗎？

We don't really see a clear pattern for second quarter in terms of monthly revenue. No, we don't have a guidance on that.

就月收入而言，我們並沒有真正看到第二季度的明確模式。不，我們沒有這方面的指導。

Okay. All right. Okay. No problem. Okay. Congratulations.

好的。好的。好的。沒問題。好的。恭喜。

And next we have Sebastian Hou of CLSA for questions.

接下來我們有來自 CLSA 的 Sebastian Hou 提問。

My first, I want to follow up on 28 nanometer. So with the improving utilization rate, we are seeing gross margin to go up in the second quarter. So what's the -- I wonder what's the outlook for second half this year, your margin versus 28-nano UTR? I wonder that whether you expect that the 28 nanometer's utilization rate to continue to go up and likely to reach the full utilization level in second half? And if that were to happen or if we assume that all else equal, what's the possible gross margin range UMC can achieve in -- when that happens?

首先，我想跟進 28 納米。因此，隨著利用率的提高，我們看到第二季度的毛利率將上升。那麼 - 我想知道今年下半年的前景如何，您的利潤率與 28 納米 UTR 相比？不知您是否預計28納米的使用率會繼續走高，下半年有可能達到滿載水平？如果發生這種情況，或者如果我們假設其他所有條件都相同，那麼 UMC 可以實現的毛利率範圍是多少——當這種情況發生時？

Sebastian, this is a question that I cannot answer, okay. So there's various parameters for determining our gross margin. And we have synergy improvement coming from USJC, and we also have recovery capacity utilization rate from 28 nanometers. And yes, we're also under this threat of order cancellation overall broad-based because of the COVID-19. So that's why we cannot really see through the crystal ball for second half. But for quarter 2, we do expect to see further margin expansion based upon better capacity utilization rate and higher contribution from 28 nanometers.

塞巴斯蒂安，這是一個我無法回答的問題，好吧。所以有各種參數來確定我們的毛利率。我們有來自 USJC 的協同改進，我們也有來自 28 納米的恢復產能利用率。是的，由於 COVID-19，我們也面臨著全面取消訂單的威脅。所以這就是為什麼我們不能真正看透下半場的水晶球。但對於第二季度，我們確實預計，基於更好的產能利用率和 28 納米的更高貢獻，利潤率將進一步擴大。

Okay. How about let me ask from another perspective. What's -- so can we assume that most of the revenue growth in second quarter is driven by 28 nanometers, majority?

好的。不如換個角度問一下。什麼是 - 那麼我們可以假設第二季度的大部分收入增長主要是由 28 納米驅動的嗎？

Overall, corporate capacity utilization rate goes up to mid-90s to -- from 93% in the first quarter and pretty much 8-inch is full, so no, 28 is not the only factor. It's actually a pretty broad-based, mainly coming from overall improvement in the capacity utilization rate.

總體而言，企業產能利用率從第一季度的 93% 上升到 90 年代中期，幾乎 8 英寸已滿，所以不，28 不是唯一的因素。它實際上是一個非常廣泛的基礎，主要來自產能利用率的整體改善。

Okay. Okay. Got it. My second question is on the -- I'm not sure if I hear you correctly on 8-inch the comments from Co-CEO. Can you elaborate again on the 8-inch outlook into second half? Did you say that you will continue to expect the very high loading into second half?

好的。好的。知道了。我的第二個問題是——我不確定我是否正確地聽到了 8 英寸聯席首席執行官的評論。您能否再次詳細說明下半年的 8 英寸前景？你是說你會繼續期待下半年的高負荷嗎？

Okay. Yes. I think we foresee 8-inch utilization will remain full, okay, driven by the solid demand, okay, throughout the second half, 2020. As I said that the demand outlook is here good in the power, MCU and display-related requirements.

好的。是的。我認為我們預計 8 英寸的利用率將在整個 2020 年下半年的穩固需求推動下保持充分，好吧。正如我所說，在電源、MCU 和顯示器相關要求方面的需求前景良好。

Okay. So that is already factoring that even with a potential order adjustment for some of the customers due to COVID-19, we still expect the 8-inch to be pretty full?

好的。因此，這已經考慮到即使由於 COVID-19 對某些客戶進行了潛在的訂單調整，我們仍然希望 8 英寸的屏幕非常滿？

I think, yes, that's what we believe because we see customer waiting for the capacity support. So we expect that will communicate the potential impact.

我認為，是的，這就是我們所相信的，因為我們看到客戶在等待容量支持。因此，我們預計這將傳達潛在的影響。

Okay. Okay. So we can also interpret that as because most of these customers are pretty confirmed with the new projects or their -- maybe their new design, the order reallocation, so that's why we are pretty confirmed about these orders regardless how macro will change. Is that the right way to interpret?

好的。好的。因此，我們也可以將其解釋為，因為這些客戶中的大多數都對新項目或他們的 - 也許是他們的新設計、訂單重新分配非常確認，所以這就是為什麼我們對這些訂單非常確認，無論宏觀將如何變化。這是正確的解釋方式嗎？

So far, yes, so far, yes. Yes. Of course, there are some uncertainty for the second half because of COVID-19 impact. So far, that's what we see from our data and customers' alignment.

到目前為止，是的，到目前為止，是的。是的。當然，由於 COVID-19 的影響，下半年存在一些不確定性。到目前為止，這就是我們從數據和客戶的一致性中看到的。

Okay. Got it. My last question is a follow-up on depreciation, maybe Qi Dong, when do you expect the -- our depreciation starts to fold more obviously in -- I mean, I understand that's the mid part of our next year, but can you possibly to -- specify which quarter? Or is it first half next year or potentially by the end of this year, we could see that?

好的。知道了。我的最後一個問題是關於折舊的後續問題，也許是齊東，你預計什麼時候 - 我們的貶值開始更明顯地折疊 - 我的意思是，我知道那是我們明年的中期，但你能不能到——指定哪個季度？或者是明年上半年或可能在今年年底，我們可以看到嗎？

No. We probably only see low single digit this year, a little bit more then in 2021, but majority and more noticeable one will be 2022.

不。我們今年可能只會看到較低的個位數，比 2021 年多一點，但大多數和更引人注目的是 2022 年。

Okay. So this year, low single digit. Next year, more than low single digit. But still -- but I remember earlier, I think the past 2 quarters, your guidance was down -- to be down like teens or double digit. Are we still looking for that for '21?

好的。所以今年，低個位數。明年，將超過低個位數。但仍然 - 但我記得早些時候，我認為過去兩個季度，你的指導下降了 - 下降到十幾歲或兩位數。我們還在為 21 年尋找那個嗎？

I cannot really have a confirmed figure for you for 2021, but it will be down.

我真的無法為您確定 2021 年的數字，但它會下降。

(Operator Instructions) And the next question is coming from Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

Just one quick question. Could you talk a little bit on how you're thinking about dividend, given that we are potentially getting into a bit of a downturn situation. Given I think this is probably one of the highest dividend -- absolute dividend that you have paid last year of TWD 0.75. Is there any change in policy in terms of thinking about keeping a flattish dividend on absolute basis? Or are we still going to be sticking to the payout ratio kind of formula?

只是一個簡單的問題。鑑於我們可能會陷入低迷狀態，您能否談談您對股息的看法。鑑於我認為這可能是最高股息之一——您去年支付的絕對股息為 0.75 新台幣。在考慮保持絕對基礎上持平的股息方面，政策是否有任何變化？還是我們仍將堅持支付比率的公式？

All right. So we will like to see continued high dividend payout ratio based upon our earnings. And hopefully, we can continue to improve our earnings. But during this cyclical industries, we also want to make sure our shareholders receive a certain protection in absolute dividend received. So it depends on what -- which cycle are we in, in terms of dividend. So I think high payout ratio is definitely, but a certain minimum protection is also -- we wish to maintain.

好的。因此，我們希望看到基於我們收益的持續高派息率。希望我們可以繼續提高收入。但在這個週期性行業中，我們也希望確保我們的股東在收到的絕對股息方面得到一定的保護。因此，就股息而言，這取決於我們處於哪個週期。所以我認為高支付率是肯定的，但一定的最低保護也是——我們希望維持。

How should we think about that certain minimum ratio, if we think about it on average of last 2, 3 years? Or...

如果我們考慮過去 2、3 年的平均值，我們應該如何考慮某個最小比率？或者...

I really don't have an answer. All I can say is we will be trying very hard to have a high dividend payout. If there's a bad day, we will also try to come up with certain minimum payout. And because of the COVID-19, of course, we try to be a little bit financially responsible by not too aggressive in every corporate action, including share buyback, but that probably won't impact our dividend payout, at least for the near term.

我真的沒有答案。我只能說，我們將非常努力地獲得高股息支付。如果日子不好過，我們也會嘗試提出一定的最低支付額。當然，由於 COVID-19，我們試圖通過在包括股票回購在內的每項公司行動中不太激進來承擔一點財務責任，但這可能不會影響我們的股息支付，至少在短期內是這樣.

And the next question is coming from Bruce of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的布魯斯。

I have a question about your assumption for the foundry industry growth. You guys are doing like 30% year-on-year growth in the first quarter. And TSMC is growing like 45% year-on-year in the first quarter. And they are guiding for mid- to high teens and why is that the foundry growth is only grow by low single digit in 2020? What's your basic assumption for that?

我有一個關於您對鑄造行業增長的假設的問題。你們在第一季度實現了 30% 的同比增長。台積電第一季度同比增長約 45%。他們正在指導中高青少年，為什麼代工增長在 2020 年僅以低個位數增長？你對此的基本假設是什麼？

First of all, I think the overall semiconductor actually show a decline of mid-single digit. And so as an important component of the semiconductor industry, it's actually a pretty good result already for foundry to continue to show growth. And of course, this is coming from our corporate marketing department, they're planning all the different views from research, data center as well as customer visit, et cetera.

首先，我認為整體半導體實際上出現了中個位數的下降。因此，作為半導體行業的重要組成部分，晶圓代工繼續保持增長實際上已經是一個相當不錯的結果。當然，這來自我們的企業營銷部門，他們正在規劃研究、數據中心以及客戶訪問等方面的所有不同觀點。

So I don't have a straightforward answer why we are using this low single-digit number for the -- from -- and I also cannot comment on our competitors. All we can see from UMC is that we are seeing -- penetrating into new segments through new product wins. And so UMC is winning market share. And more importantly is our customer seems to win market share as well. So that's a combination that why UMC can do slightly better than the industry, at least for as far as we can see.

因此，我沒有一個直接的答案，為什麼我們使用這個低個位數來表示 - 來自 - 我也無法對我們的競爭對手發表評論。我們從聯華電子身上所能看到的就是我們正在看到——通過贏得新產品滲透到新的細分市場。因此聯電正在贏得市場份額。更重要的是，我們的客戶似乎也贏得了市場份額。因此，這就是為什麼 UMC 可以比行業做得更好的原因，至少就我們所見而言是這樣。

No. understand. I have no questions about like UMC is out there, say, about outgrow the industry. But I thought the industry growth is a lot lower than investor expectations. And I think that, that is -- that's pretty big. That's why we want to know a bit more detail. Maybe then we can follow up with this, but this is definitely the case, it's a lot bigger than our expectation.

不明白。我對 UMC 的發展沒有任何疑問，比如超越行業。但我認為行業增長遠低於投資者預期。而且我認為，那是 - 這是相當大的。這就是為什麼我們想知道更多細節。也許到時候我們可以跟進這個，但確實是這樣，比我們預期的要大很多。

Yes. We can certainly follow up on this with more data we gather from our side.

是的。我們當然可以用從我們這邊收集的更多數據來跟進這一點。

We thank you for all your questions and it concludes today's Q&A session. I'll turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

感謝您提出所有問題，今天的問答環節到此結束。我會把事情交給 UMC 的 IR 負責人作結束語。

Thank you, everyone, for attending this conference today. We appreciate your questions. As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir@umc.com. Have a good day.

謝謝大家今天參加這個會議。感謝您提出問題。與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時通過 ir@umc.com 聯繫 UMC。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for first quarter 2020. Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference. There will be a webcast replay within an hour. Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors Events section. You may now disconnect. Goodbye.

謝謝你。女士們，先生們，我們 2020 年第一季度的會議到此結束。感謝您參加 UMC 的會議。一個小時內將進行網絡廣播重播。請訪問投資者活動部分下的 www.umc.com。您現在可以斷開連接。再見。