聯華電子 (UMC) 2019 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to UMC's 2019 Second Quarter Earnings Conference Call.

歡迎大家參加聯電 2019 年第二季獲利電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet.

（操作員說明）僅供參考，本次電話會議現透過網路進行現場直播。

A webcast replay will be available within 1 hour after the conference is finished.

會議結束後1小時內將提供網路直播重播。

Please visit our website, www.umc.com, under the Investor Relations, Investors, Events section.

請造訪我們的網站 www.umc.com，位於「投資者關係」、「投資者」、「活動」部分。

And now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations, UMC.

現在我想介紹一下聯華電子投資人關係主管Michael Lin先生。

Mr. Lin, please begin.

林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to the UMC's conference call for the second quarter of 2019.

謝謝，歡迎參加聯華電子 2019 年第二季電話會議。

I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, the President of UMC; and Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, the CFO of UMC.

與我一同出席的還有聯華電子總裁 Jason Wang 先生；以及聯電財務長劉志東先生。

In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the second quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's forecasts and the third quarter 2019 guidance.

稍後，我們將聽到我們的財務長介紹第二季的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁針對 UMC 的預測和 2019 年第三季指導的關鍵訊息。

Once our President and the CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session.

一旦我們的總裁和財務長完成發言，就會有問答環節。

UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors Financials section.

UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的「投資者財務」部分取得。

During this conference, we will make forward-looking statements based on the management's current expectation and beliefs.

在本次會議期間，我們將根據管理層目前的預期和信念做出前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual result to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond company's control.

這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。

For these risks, please refer to UMC's filings with the SEC in the U.S. and the ROC security authorities.

對於這些風險，請參閱聯華電子向美國 SEC 和中華民國安全機構提交的文件。

Now I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Chi-Tung Liu, to discuss our second quarter 2019 financial results.

現在我想介紹聯電財務長劉志東先生來討論我們2019年第二季的財務表現。

Thank you, Michael.

謝謝你，麥可。

I would like to go through the 2Q '19 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded from our website.

我想瀏覽一下 19 年第二季度投資者會議演示材料，該材料可以從我們的網站下載。

Starting on Page 3. I think the key message for second quarter of 2019 is we see a good rebound from the previous quarter.

從第 3 頁開始。我認為 2019 年第二季的關鍵訊息是我們看到較上一季出現良好反彈。

However, due to the current geopolitical uncertainties, we still see some kind of decline from the same period of last year.

但由於當前地緣政治的不確定性，我們仍看到較去年同期下降。

So on Page 3, consolidated revenue was TWD 36.03 billion and gross margin pretty much doubled to 15.3% from the previous quarter.

因此，第三頁的綜合收入為新台幣 360.3 億，毛利率較上一季幾乎翻倍至 15.3%。

And the net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 1.74 billion.

歸屬於母公司股東的淨利為新台幣17.4億元。

And earnings per ordinary shares was TWD 0.15.

每股普通股獲利為新台幣0.15。

On the Page 3, you can also see the trend of the utilization rate.

在第3頁還可以看到使用率的趨勢。

Again, 88% in second quarter, a good recovery of 5% from 83% in first quarter, but significantly lower than the 97% of the same quarter in 2018.

同樣，第二季為 88%，比第一季的 83% 恢復了 5%，但明顯低於 2018 年同季的 97%。

So on Page 4, revenue growth 10.6% Q-o-Q to TWD 36 billion.

第四頁的營收季增 10.6%，達到 360 億新台幣。

Roughly 7% come from the shipment increase; another 3% coming from the ASP increase, which is mainly due to the product mix enhancement.

約7%來自出貨量成長；另外3%來自平均售價的成長，這主要是由於產品組合的增強。

Gross margin, as I mentioned, has more than doubled to TWD 5.65 billion or 15.7% gross margin.

正如我所提到的，毛利率增長了一倍多，達到 56.5 億新台幣，即 15.7% 的毛利率。

And operating expenses also slightly increased to TWD 5.5 billion.

營運費用也小幅增加至新台幣55億元。

And as a result, the operating income is around TWD 1.76 billion or 4.9% operating profit margin.

因此，營業收入約為新台幣 17.6 億元，營業利益率為 4.9%。

Net operating income didn't really see the similar revaluation gains in our stock holdings in the first quarter, so it's more reflect of our routine interest expenses and some of the ForEx losses due to the weakness in renminbi.

第一季我們所持有股票的淨營業收入並沒有真正看到類似的重估收益，因此它更反映了我們的日常利息支出以及由於人民幣疲軟而造成的一些外匯損失。

So net nonoperating income is around -- net operating expenses is around TWD 617 million losses in the second quarter.

因此，第二季的淨非營業收入約為 - 淨營業費用約為新台幣 6.17 億虧損。

And as a result, the net income attributable to stockholder of the parent in quarter 2 is TWD 1.74 billion or 4.8% -- percentage point, which is 44.9% better than that of first quarter 2019.

因此，第二季歸屬於母公司股東的淨利為新台幣17.4億元，增幅為4.8%，比2019年第一季好44.9%。

EPS was TWD 0.15 per shares.

EPS為每股0.15新台幣。

So on Page 5 is the year-to-date or first 6 months' comparison to the same period of last year.

第 5 頁是年初至今或前 6 個月與去年同期的比較。

Revenue, as I mentioned, declined about 10.1% from TWD 76.3 billion to TWD 68.6 billion in 2019 first 6 months.

正如我所提到的，2019 年前 6 個月的收入從 763 億新台幣下降到 686 億新台幣，下降了約 10.1%。

Gross margin as a result declined by 30% to TWD 7.9 billion from TWD 11.3 billion in 2018.

毛利率因此下降 30%，從 2018 年的 113 億新台幣降至 79 億新台幣。

And nonoperating income showed a gain of TWD 630 million versus a negative of TWD 8 million in the 2018.

營業外收入則由 2018 年的負 800 萬新台幣增至 6.3 億新台幣。

So net income attributable to stockholder of the parent declined 58% year-over-year to TWD 2.94 billion and EPS is TWD 0.25 in the first 6 months of the year.

因此，今年前 6 個月歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為新台幣 29.4 億元，年減 58%，每股收益為新台幣 0.25。

On Page 6, our cash position continued to increase.

在第 6 頁，我們的現金狀況持續增加。

At the end of the quarter 2, it's now reached about TWD 90 billion, while our total equity is still around TWD 202 billion.

截至第二季末，目前已達到約 900 億新台幣，而我們的總股本仍約為 2,020 億新台幣。

And EPS -- as our ASP dropped -- jumped around 3% in the second quarter of 2019, mainly due to our recovery utilization rate in 12-inch operations.

隨著平均售價下降，每股盈餘在 2019 年第二季成長了 3% 左右，這主要是由於我們 12 吋業務的利用率恢復。

In terms of sales revenue breakdown on Page 8, Asia continues to grow.

從第 8 頁的銷售收入細分來看，亞洲持續成長。

Now it's around 59% of our total revenue.

現在它約占我們總收入的 59%。

And North America is about 31%.

北美約為31%。

And IDM and Fabless breakdown didn't really change much in the second quarter, but the communication has been the key drivers for the recovery in the second quarter and now stand for 58% -- 52% of our total revenue on Page 10.

IDM 和 Fabless 細分在第二季並沒有太大變化，但通訊一直是第二季復甦的關鍵驅動力，現在佔第 10 頁總收入的 58% 至 52%。

And we still haven't really received very strong cryptocurrency-related order, and that's reflected in our 14-nanometer revenues compared to the same -- compared to 2018.

我們仍然沒有真正收到非常強勁的加密貨幣相關訂單，這反映在我們的 14 奈米收入與 2018 年相比。

And 28 nanometers show some kind of rebound to 13% of our total revenue and 40 nanometer also grow to 24% in second quarter compared to the first quarter of 2019.

與 2019 年第一季相比，第二季 28 奈米技術出現某種程度的反彈，占我們總收入的 13%，40 奈米技術也成長至 24%。

And on Page 12, our capacity will continue to debottleneck.

在第 12 頁，我們的產能將繼續消除瓶頸。

And you can see that our Singapore fab, Fab12i, will continue to show some kind of mild capacity growth.

您可以看到我們的新加坡工廠 Fab12i 將繼續呈現某種程度的溫和產能成長。

And there will be also some debottlenecking in our Taiwan 8-inch wafer fab.

我們台灣8吋晶圓廠也會有一些瓶頸。

So total capacity available on quarterly basis is around 2 million in third quarter.

因此，第三季可用總產能約為 200 萬個。

And so far, our CapEx budget remain unchanged, around TWD 1 billion, and 12-inch represents 75% of the total CapEx budget.

到目前為止，我們的資本支出預算保持不變，約為 10 億新台幣，其中 12 英寸佔總資本支出預算的 75%。

The above is the summary of UMC's result for quarter 2 2019.

以上是聯華電子 2019 年第 2 季業績摘要。

More details are available in the report which has been posted on our website.

更多詳細資訊請參閱我們網站上發布的報告。

I would now turn our call to President of UMC, Mr. Wang

我現在請聯華電子總裁王先生致電

Thank you, Chi-Tung.

謝謝你，志東。

Good evening, everyone.

各位晚上好。

Here, I would like to update the second quarter operating result of UMC.

在此，我想更新聯華電子第二季的經營業績。

In the second quarter, foundry revenue grew 10.6% quarter-over-quarter to TWD 36 billion, leading to a foundry operating margin of 5.3%.

第二季代工收入較上季成長10.6%至360億新台幣，代工營業利益率為5.3%。

Utilization rate increased to 88%, bringing wafer shipments to 1.73 million 8-inch equivalent wafers.

利用率提升至88%，使晶圓出貨量達到173萬片8吋等效晶圓。

Second quarter '19 results reflected higher contribution from 12-inch technology node, which experienced strength on the wireless communication segment, including chips found in entry-level to mid-end smartphones, switch and routers.

19 年第二季的業績反映出 12 吋技術節點的貢獻較高，該技術節點在無線通訊領域表現強勁，包括入門級到中階智慧型手機、交換器和路由器中的晶片。

During the quarter, we generated a free cash flow of TWD 8.17 billion.

本季度，我們產生了 81.7 億新台幣的自由現金流。

We remain committed to strengthening our financial metrics.

我們仍然致力於加強我們的財務指標。

And on June 19, 2019, UMC's Board of Directors approved the cancellation of 400 million ordinary treasury shares, which will reduce UMC ordinary shares by 3.3%.

並於2019年6月19日，聯電董事會批准註銷4億股普通庫存股，將使聯電普通股減少3.3%。

Despite U.S. and China trade tensions creating market uncertainty, we anticipate that specific area within the wireless communication centers will have a shorter upward adjustment in the supply chain, which should lead to a slight increase in wafer demand.

儘管中美貿易緊張局勢造成市場不確定性，但我們預期無線通訊中心內的特定區域供應鏈的向上調整時間將較短，這應會導致晶圓需求略有增加。

However, we have observed that customers are continuing to managing their inventory carefully amid a weakened global economic environment, which may contribute to a lower visibility in business forecast during the second half of 2019.

然而，我們觀察到，在全球經濟環境疲軟的情況下，客戶繼續謹慎管理庫存，這可能導致 2019 年下半年業務預測的可見度較低。

In the meantime, we will continue to actively implement measures intended to enhance our foundry competitiveness, such as focusing resources to capitalize on our existing strength in mainstream logic and specialty processes, while offering more diversified technology platform to customers.

同時，我們將繼續積極實施旨在提升晶圓代工競爭力的措施，例如集中資源利用我們在主流邏輯和特種製程方面的現有優勢，同時為客戶提供更多元化的技術平台。

Now let's move on to the third quarter 2019 guidance.

現在讓我們繼續討論 2019 年第三季的指導。

Our wafer shipment will show an increase of 2% to 4%.

我們的晶圓出貨量將成長2%至4%。

ASP in the U.S. dollar is expected to increase by 1%.

以美元計算的平均售價預計將上漲 1%。

Gross profit margin will be in the mid-teens percentage range and capacity utilization rate will be in the high 80% range.

毛利率將在百分之十幾左右，產能利用率將在 80% 以上。

For foundry CapEx budget of 2019, it will be USD 1 billion.

2019年代薪資本支出預算為10億美元。

That concludes my comments.

我的評論到此結束。

Thank you all for your attention.

感謝大家的關注。

Now we are ready for questions.

現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) And the first question is coming from Randy Abrams, Crédit Suisse.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自瑞士信貸銀行的蘭迪·艾布拉姆斯。

Okay.

好的。

I wanted to ask the first question just on the recent news on the China -- the plan for the China listing.

我想問第一個問題，就最近有關中國的新聞——中國上市的計劃。

And if you could go through maybe a bit more on the rationale to withdraw the listing.

如果您能詳細說明一下撤回上市的理由。

And if you could also now discuss for that China operation, any -- like what your plan or strategy is now for both the 8-inch and 12-inch?

如果您現在也可以討論中國業務，例如您現在針對 8 英寸和 12 英寸的計劃或策略是什麼？

If it changes any of your plans on the ramp up.

如果它改變了你的任何計劃。

So if you could just give an update on how your plans to ramp up Shaman and also the 8-inch, but yes, would appreciate if you could also address the pull of the listing.

因此，如果您能提供有關如何提升 Shaman 和 8 英寸的計劃的最新信息，但是是的，如果您也能解決列表的吸引力，我將不勝感激。

I think the pull of the listing's really coming from that our underwriter or the guarantee Chang Jiang Securities after a few rounds of negotiation with the regulators, it doesn't seems we can reach a consensus about several key areas.

我覺得上市的拉力確實來自於我們的承銷商或擔保人長江證券，經過和監管層的幾輪談判，在幾個關鍵領域似乎還不能達成共識。

And we've been -- we haven't been really told officially about what areas they can now reach the consensus.

我們還沒有真正被正式告知他們現在可以在哪些領域達成共識。

However, it's unlikely the regulator will change their current thinking.

然而，監管機構不太可能改變他們目前的想法。

And instead of being rejected, we will be recommended by our underwriters to pull the application, which we did.

我們的核保人員將建議我們撤回申請，而不是被拒絕，我們也這麼做了。

And as for the implication, we think it's rather limited.

至於影響，我們認為是相當有限的。

Of course, we would love to catch the high P/E multiples in the new [style board] in China.

當然，我們很樂意在中國的新[風格板]中抓住高市盈率。

However, from a longer transmitting UMC's listing, both from Taiwan and China, we do have ample experience for international financing.

不過，從聯華電子上市的時間較長來看，無論是台灣地區或大陸地區，我們確實有豐富的國際融資經驗。

So we don't really think this termination or suspension of our application for listing will have any impact for our UMC in Taiwan or our operation in China in terms of financing for the growth in the future.

因此，我們並不認為終止或暫停上市申請會對我們在台灣的聯華電子或我們在中國大陸的業務在未來成長的融資方面產生任何影響。

So the impact is very limited and we don't expect to see any change for our China strategy regarding our 8-inch or 12-inch operations, both in Suzhou and Xiamen.

因此，影響非常有限，我們預計我們在蘇州和廈門的 8 吋或 12 吋業務的中國戰略不會發生任何變化。

Okay.

好的。

And maybe since we're on the China facility, if you go through Xiamen, the capacity now relative to -- I think the first phase you can eventually get to 25,000.

也許因為我們在中國的工廠，如果你經過廈門，現在的產能相對於——我認為第一階段最終可以達到 25,000 人。

But if you could talk about where you're at now, how the fab utilization is?

但如果您能談談您現在的情況，晶圓廠的利用率如何？

And if you have plans to kind of expand that closer to the 25,000.

如果您計劃將數量擴大到接近 25,000 個。

And then also for the 8-inch chip, where you're seeing for the utilization, if you're seeing more activity from the supply chain that you also need to add capacity on the 8-inch in China?

然後對於 8 吋晶片，您會看到利用率，如果您看到供應鏈有更多活動，那麼您還需要增加中國 8 吋晶片的產能嗎？

So 17,000 to 18,000 is roughly the current status.

所以17000到18000大概是目前的狀態。

Yes, the goal is to reach to 25,000.

是的，目標是達到 25,000 人。

However, this Xiamen strategy is very 28-nanometer high K-centric.

不過，廈門的這個策略非常以28奈米高K為中心。

So it's more tied to our high K momentum more than anything else.

所以它與我們的高 K 動量的關係比其他任何東西都更重要。

So we do see a recovery in our 28-nanometer activity in the second quarter as well as third quarter.

因此，我們確實看到第二季和第三季 28 奈米活動有所復甦。

But in order to further expand the Xiamen facility, especially 28,000 high K, we do need a stronger momentum than current status.

但為了進一步擴大大廈門工廠，特別是28,000高K，我們確實需要比目前更強大的動力。

So it will flow with the market demand.

所以它會隨著市場需求而流動。

And in the near term, we will do only very mild expansion for our Xiamen capacity.

短期內，我們只會對廈門產能進行非常溫和的擴張。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

Yes.

是的。

And if I could ask actually it's more related to the mix.

如果我可以問的話，實際上它與混合更相關。

It rebounded well with the pickup, like the 28 and 40 started to come back.

皮卡的反彈很好，就像 28 和 40 開始反彈一樣。

If you could talk -- because you're putting a little bit of conservatism on second half.

如果你能談談的話——因為你在下半場表現得有點保守。

Maybe talk a little more.

或許可以多說一點。

You mentioned 28 is still picking up.

你提到28還在上升。

So if you could give an outlook how you see the 28 and 40 nodes continuing and maybe carrying that further, like over the next year with 5G?

那麼，您能否展望一下 28 和 40 個節點的持續發展，並可能進一步發展，例如明年的 5G？

I guess TSMC kicked off with a lot of optimism on that.

我想台積電一開始對此非常樂觀。

But if you could talk about how you see that coming through, if you're seeing kind of that similar early trend.

但如果你能談談你如何看待這種情況，如果你看到類似的早期趨勢。

And how you see that affecting it, whether it's a 28, 40 or more specialty that might be looking up the mature nodes?

您如何看待這對它的影響，無論是 28 個、40 個或更多個可能正在尋找成熟節點的專業？

Well, for the near term, the Q2, we actually see some of the rebound from a wireless communication sector.

嗯，就近期而言，即第二季度，我們實際上看到了無線通訊行業的一些反彈。

As we've seen though, it's more related to inventory replenishment than some selected customer in the communication markets.

但正如我們所看到的，與通訊市場中的某些選定客戶相比，它更多地與庫存補充相關。

And we anticipate this wireless communication replenishment will probably continue and showing into Q3 '19.

我們預計這種無線通訊補充可能會持續到 19 年第三季。

From the -- by no basis going forward, the 28, we see a improvement quarter-over-quarter from Q1 to Q2.

從沒有任何基礎的未來來看，我們看到從第一季到第二季較上季有所改善。

And I will expect the 28 loading in the near term in the Q3 will be probably remain flat.

我預計第三季近期的 28 輛裝載量可能會保持穩定。

Okay.

好的。

However, the -- from the longer-term standpoint of the 28, we do believe that 2019 is the fastest of the 28 as we start seeing some of the opportunity will improve our utilization going forward, mainly driving from a combination of the current 28 fragment product as well some of the projects that were currently under early engagement.

然而，從28 個國家的長期角度來看，我們確實相信2019 年是28 個國家中最快的，因為我們開始看到一些機會將提高我們未來的利用率，這主要是由當前28 個國家的組合推動的碎片產品以及目前正在早期參與的一些項目。

So we do believe the 28 going forward will improve from 2019.

因此，我們確實相信未來 28 個數字將比 2019 年有所改善。

If you break it down to the 40's nodes, I mean the 40 nodes in the -- in both Q2 and Q3, we see some good sign on that as well because the inventory reasons I mentioned earlier.

如果你將其分解為 40 個節點，我的意思是在第二季和第三季中的 40 個節點，我們也看到了一些好的跡象，因為我之前提到的庫存原因。

But on a longer-term, and we do see that from the communication side and the consumer segment will continue driving some of the demand going forward.

但從長遠來看，我們確實看到通訊方面和消費者領域將繼續推動未來的部分需求。

And so we are comfortable with how our business is progressing on 40 as well.

因此，我們對 40 週年的業務進展也感到滿意。

And about the technology together, we expect our business along with technology development and the capacity point will be very much aligned with the market trend.

關於技術，我們預期我們的業務以及技術發展和產能點將與市場趨勢非常一致。

Then now you also asked about other nodes.

那現在你還問了其他節點的情況。

For the mature 12-inch, the 60 by 50 by 90, I mean, yes, we do see a strong demand coming from the many different segments.

對於成熟的 12 英寸（60 x 50 x 90），我的意思是，是的，我們確實看到來自許多不同細分市場的強勁需求。

And we believe that mature 12-inch will sustain the high utilization rate driven by those growth area in the specialty area.

我們相信，成熟的12吋將維持專業領域這些成長領域所驅動的高利用率。

Okay.

好的。

And the last question, probably two clarifications for it to go through.

最後一個問題，可能需要兩個澄清。

The CapEx first half was underspent a bit and it sounds like you're having a bit of a conservative view at least into second half further pick-up on utilization.

上半年的資本支出有點不足，聽起來您對至少下半年利用率進一步回升持保守看法。

So I'm curious if you see potential you could underspend the CapEx budget again.

因此，我很好奇您是否認為有可能再次低於資本支出預算。

And a second clarification, on the margins.

還有第二個澄清，在邊緣。

In the second quarter, it was a nice improvement, and I think some of that is mix of advanced nodes.

在第二季度，這是一個很好的改進，我認為其中一些是高級節點的組合。

It looks like though on higher sales, you brought down the nondepreciation costs.

看起來，儘管銷售額增加，但非折舊成本卻降低了。

So if you could go through a bit more what drove the improvement.

因此，如果您能多了解一下推動改進的因素。

But then into second half, it looks like it's flattening out a bit even though sales is still picking up.

但進入下半年，儘管銷售仍在回升，但看起來似乎有點趨於平緩。

So I'd be interested if you can give a little more color on what the drivers are in the margins.

因此，如果您能對驅動程式的邊緣情況提供更多說明，我會很感興趣。

For CapEx first, its current budget is TWD 1 billion, which is a small number.

首先就資本支出而言，目前的預算是 10 億新台幣，這是一個很小的數字。

And the push out of payment or pulling of the payment could have some kind of impact for our cash-based budget in 2019.

延遲付款或取消付款可能會對我們 2019 年的現金預算產生某種影響。

But for the time being, ballpark issue hasn't really changed much, and that's why we still keep our TWD 1 billion budget impact here.

但就目前而言，大致問題並沒有真正改變太多，這就是為什麼我們仍然保留 10 億新台幣的預算影響。

And this is a dynamic process.

這是一個動態的過程。

So we will update you if there's any change in terms of the real spending regards for 2019.

因此，如果 2019 年實際支出方面有任何變化，我們將及時通知您。

And for your question on the margin.

對於你的邊緣問題。

Q2 margin, the Q2 margin was better than guidance as a result of the, one, the NT dollars' depreciation.

第二季利潤率，第二季利潤率好於指導，原因之一是新台幣貶值。

We see some improvement on that and as well as our ongoing staff cost reduction efforts in which that will continue.

我們看到了這方面的一些改進，以及我們正在進行的降低員工成本的努力，這種情況將繼續下去。

For Q3, we projected in the mid-teens range of -- even our overall utilization is expected to stay in the high 80% range.

對於第三季度，我們預計在 10% 左右——甚至我們的整體利用率預計將保持在 80% 的高點範圍。

But we usually expense the higher utility costs during the fixed summer season.

但我們通常在固定的夏季期間花費較高的公用事業成本。

So at this point, we guide it as a mid-teens range.

因此，在這一點上，我們將其指導為十幾歲左右的範圍。

And the next question is coming from Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

Yes.

是的。

I have a couple of questions.

我有一些問題。

Could you talk a little bit about your outlook for the 8-inch demand in second half for this year, given that you mentioned that some of the segments are still seeing inventory correction?

鑑於您提到部分細分市場仍在庫存調整，您能否談談您對今年下半年8吋需求的展望？

Also, last year, I think 8-inch we did see some ASP increases for -- at least for certain segments and mix also was getting better.

另外，去年，我認為 8 吋我們確實看到了 ASP 的一些成長——至少對於某些細分市場來說，而且組合也變得更好。

Could you comment a little bit on what is the pricing trend in 8-inch right now, given some of your competitors have also talked about lower utilization since Q2, potentially extending into second half of the year?

鑑於您的一些競爭對手也談到自第二季度以來利用率較低，並可能持續到今年下半年，您能否對目前 8 英寸的定價趨勢發表一些評論？

Lastly, any comment from management on how the settlement process with Micron is progressing?

最後，管理階層對與美光的和解流程進度有何評論？

And what does the management expect or kind of project in terms of any financial payments or anything like that, that just could be required for Micron in the capital plan?

管理階層對美光資本計畫中可能需要的任何財務付款或類似項目有何期望或類型？

Okay.

好的。

As far as the 8-inch outlook, our Q2 was guided with a lower utilization in last quarter.

就 8 吋前景而言，我們第二季的預期是上季利用率較低。

And as we start seeing our 8-inches show a softened demand across from larger mix more discrete drivers, and -- but as a result, our Q2 8-inch utilization was actually higher than expected and reaching to a high 80% range.

當我們開始看到我們的8 英寸顯示出需求疲軟，因為更大的混合更多離散驅動器，並且- 但結果是，我們第二季度的8 英寸利用率實際上高於預期，達到了80％ 的高範圍。

And we expect the 8-inch utilization will be in a high 80% range as well for the Q3 '19.

我們預計 19 年第三季 8 吋的使用率也將高達 80%。

Going forward, longer-term, the 8-inch business all of it in a way, we still believe there's going to be many drivers that drives that demand, particularly from 5G and AKTV.

展望未來，從長遠來看，8 吋業務在某種程度上仍然相信，將會有許多驅動因素來推動這一需求，特別是來自 5G 和 AKTV 的驅動力。

For example, the -- we seen some promising opportunity in the Fit Me for the 5G and diverse applications.

例如，我們在 Fit Me 中看到了 5G 和各種應用的一些有前途的機會。

And we're also seeing a solid growth trend in LDDI as we see a higher resolution on TV such as AK4K or 4K2K start penetrating to the market.

隨著 AK4K 或 4K2K 等更高解析度的電視開始滲透到市場，我們也看到 LDDI 的穩健成長趨勢。

So we remain confident about the 8-inch in the longer term.

因此，從長遠來看，我們對 8 英寸仍然充滿信心。

But in the short term, we're probably going through some short-term volatility.

但從短期來看，我們可能會經歷一些短期波動。

Yes.

是的。

The -- from an ASP standpoint, we see the ASP mainly driven by product mix as well the erosion.

從平均售價的角度來看，我們認為平均售價主要是由產品組合和侵蝕所驅動的。

And we see a -- the product mix may change as -- when we're seeing a different mix of a product coming into an 8-inch mature technology.

當我們看到不同的產品組合進入 8 吋成熟技術時，我們看到產品組合可能會改變。

So on that front, I say our goal is try to maintain as flat as possible, but it may change due to the product mix changes going forward.

因此，在這方面，我說我們的目標是盡可能保持平穩，但由於未來產品組合的變化，它可能會發生變化。

And we have to look how fast those new application were migrating into the 8-inch mature technology.

我們必須看看這些新應用程式遷移到 8 吋成熟技術的速度有多快。

Example like the most fabs and the IGBT area which represent a different level of ASP, but we'll continue monitoring the trend of that.

例如，大多數晶圓廠和 IGBT 區域代表了不同的 ASP 水平，但我們將繼續監控其趨勢。

But if we resolve the mix change, we'll maintaining the ASP as flat as we can.

但如果我們解決了組合變化問題，我們將盡可能保持平均售價不變。

The final question for the Micron case, the litigation at this point is still ongoing.

美光案的最後一個問題，目前訴訟仍在進行中。

And we stated before and we will vigorously defend any of the false charges amid some steep allegations.

我們之前曾說過，我們將在一些嚴厲的指控中大力捍衛任何虛假指控。

But since this is under the judicial process now, we do not have any updated information at this point.

但由於目前該案正在司法程序中，因此我們目前沒有任何最新資訊。

If there is any new development, we will disclose it in a timely measure.

如有新進展，我們將及時揭露。

So I think that's probably as far as I can update you for that topic.

我認為這可能是我能向您提供的有關該主題的最新資訊。

Okay.

好的。

Just one quick follow-up on 8-inch fab.

只是 8 英寸晶圓廠的一個快速跟進。

The -- Fujitsu is something that deal seems to be delayed and potentially, could you give an official update on what is happening there?

富士通的交易似乎被推遲了，您能否提供有關那裡發生的事情的官方最新資訊？

And is there further need to actually seek out some 8-inch capacity given you're running at close to 90% utilization?

鑑於您的利用率接近 90%，是否還需要實際尋找一些 8 吋容量？

And I think previously, the expectation was to kind of bring some capacity in.

我認為以前，人們的期望是引入一些能力。

Well, first of all, the Fujitsu Mia acquisition is a 12-inch.

嗯，首先，富士通Mia收購的是12吋的。

Yes.

是的。

That's right.

這是正確的。

So for the -- for that transaction, we've currently been working with the relevant government agency to provide whatever material they need, and we're still in that stage in order to reach an informed decision.

因此，對於該交易，我們目前一直在與相關政府機構合作，提供他們所需的任何材料，為了做出明智的決定，我們仍處於這個階段。

And we can't actually -- we are not in that position to speculate on any anticipated time line right now.

事實上，我們現在還不能推測任何預期的時間線。

But we are working with them closely to hopefully we can get to that.

但我們正在與他們密切合作，希望我們能夠實現這一目標。

We are aiming for the next contractual date is October 1, 2019.

我們的目標是下一個合約日期是 2019 年 10 月 1 日。

So that's the current status.

這就是目前的狀態。

For the 8-inch capacity, we have a really relatively limited space for significant capacity increase.

以8吋產能來說，大幅提升產能的空間確實相對有限。

And the area that we focus on -- those capacity increase will primarily be in our China 8-inch fab, called HeJian fab, and the capacity increase right now, the plan is from 60 -- a range of 65,000 per month to 70,000.

我們關注的領域——這些產能增加將主要發生在我們中國的8英寸晶圓廠，稱為河間晶圓廠，目前的產能增加，計劃是從60個——每月65,000個到70,000個不等。

Yes.

是的。

So overall, 3% increase.

總體而言，增加了 3%。

Yes.

是的。

And the next question is coming from Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

下一個問題來自華興資本的吳思豪。

I have two questions.

我有兩個問題。

The first one, regarding UMCi.

第一個是關於 UMCi 的。

You're adding more capacity in that sector.

您正在該部門增加更多產能。

What are the reasons behind the move for the capacity expansion there?

擴建產能的原因是什麼？

UMCi is our mature 12-inch wafer fab.

UMCi是我們成熟的12吋晶圓廠。

And they are also carry more of our specialty technology development.

而且他們還承載著我們更多的專業技術開發。

So the capacity expansion is mainly aiming to have more variety in specialty technology out of our Singapore facilities.

因此，產能擴張的主要目的是讓我們的新加坡工廠擁有更多種類的專業技術。

So specialty is the main area of our expansion.

所以專業是我們擴張的主要領域。

I see.

我懂了。

All right.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

The second one, going back to the Fujitsu question.

第二個，回到富士通的問題。

Let's say after October this year, you are not able to close the deal, would you walk away from the deal or you will ask for extension?

假設今年10月之後，您無法完成交易，您會放棄交易還是會要求延期？

It's hard to speculate, and we are not really reaching the point of deadline yet.

很難推測，而且我們還沒有真正達到最後期限。

I think both party are really hoping to close the deal, and we do expect to see a positive outcome.

我認為雙方都非常希望完成交易，我們確實希望看到正面的結果。

And if a extension is really necessary, then we'll, of course, we'll do our best to negotiate for such a revision for purchase agreement.

如果確實需要延期，那麼我們當然會盡力協商購買協議的修訂。

However, for the time being, we are focusing on providing information for all the regulators.

然而，目前我們的重點是為所有監管機構提供資訊。

Okay.

好的。

All right.

好的。

So the next milestone, what should we be monitoring for that transaction?

那麼下一個里程碑，我們應該監控該交易的哪些內容？

So once we receive relevant approval, and we will, of course, make an announcement.

所以一旦我們得到相關批准，我們當然會發佈公告。

And the closing day is aiming -- the next one available I mean at October 1.

截止日期是——我指的是 10 月 1 日。

And the next question is coming from Roland Shu of Citigroup.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Roland Shu。

So first question.

所以第一個問題。

Can you update your status for your 22-nanometer HPC+ qualification status?

您能否更新您的 22 奈米 HPC+ 資格狀態？

For the 22-millimeter, there is a couple of phases, uLL and uLP.

對於 22 毫米，有幾個階段：uLL 和 uLP。

And the -- we will start taping out 22-nanometer products in second half '19 and followed by more 22 tapeout in 2020 as well.

我們將在 19 年下半年開始流片 22 奈米產品，並在 2020 年流片更多 22 奈米產品。

And for the 22, we expect those product will enter volume production sometime in 2020.

對於 22，我們預計這些產品將在 2020 年的某個時候進入批量生產。

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

So what kind of alternate applications are picking up on this 22-nanometer technology?

那麼這種 22 奈米技術正在出現哪些替代應用呢？

For the initial products are more related to the consumer area.

因為最初的產品更多的是與消費領域相關。

Consumer?

消費者？

Yes.

是的。

And probably that will be established but as you go -- next year 2020?

也許這會被確定，但隨著你的腳步——明年 2020 年？

Yes.

是的。

Sometime in 2020.

2020 年的某個時候。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

So I know probably are still at the early stage, but what are your outlook for this 22-nanometer gross margin?

所以我知道可能仍處於早期階段，但您對 22 納米毛利率的前景如何？

Do you expect a steeper gross margin earning curve compared to 28-nanometer or you think it will be the same?

與 28 奈米相比，您預計毛利率收益曲線會更陡峭還是您認為會相同？

For the gross margin, I mean we look at this from a blended level, not in a position to guidance, but specific nodes.

對於毛利率，我的意思是我們從混合的層面來看這個問題，而不是指導，而是一個具體的節點。

But in our projection today, we do think once the 22 start ramping, we're actually helping in our blended gross margin I believe.

但在我們今天的預測中，我們確實認為，一旦 22 開始增加，我相信我們實際上正在幫助提高我們的混合毛利率。

Okay.

好的。

So it will be a gross margin accretive once your next production is for 22-nanometer?

那麼，一旦您的下一次生產採用 22 奈米工藝，毛利率將會增加嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Good.

好的。

My second question is on stock prices now, you increased President's and the Vice Presidents' total compensation from 2% on the total net income in 2017 to 8% of the total net income in 2018.

我的第二個問題是關於現在的股價，你們將總裁和副總裁的總薪酬從2017年佔淨利潤總額的2%提高到2018年佔淨利潤總額的8%。

We just try to tie the company's stock performance to the senior management's performance.

我們只是試圖將公司的股票表現與高階管理層的表現連結起來。

So last year -- sorry, this year -- last year, we did the equity program to our senior management.

所以去年——對不起，今年——去年，我們對高階管理層進行了股權計畫。

And so all the senior management actually pay for the treasury shares at a cost of around TWD 11.5 at the market, price of TWD 15.5.

因此，所有高階主管實際支付的庫存股成本約為新台幣 11.5 元，市場價格為新台幣 15.5 元。

And as a result, we also have to be pay tax based upon TWD 15.5.

因此，我們也必須以 TWD 15.5 為基礎繳稅。

And that's the main reason.

這就是主要原因。

So it's a more like a one-time equity-linked performance compensation for senior management.

因此，這更像是針對高階主管的一次性與股權掛鉤的績效薪酬。

Okay.

好的。

Understood.

明白了。

So for 2019, I think the total compensation won't be as high as 8% this year or it still depends?

那麼對於2019年，我認為今年的總薪酬不會高達8%，還是要看情況？

It will definitely decline.

肯定會下降。

And the next one is from Charlie Chan of JP -- Morgan Stanley, sorry.

下一篇是摩根士丹利 JP 的查理陳 (Charlie Chan) 發來的，抱歉。

So I have several questions.

所以我有幾個問題。

So first of all, on specialty semiconductors, can you give us more details of tempo for those high-voltage power semis?

首先，在特殊半導體方面，您能為我們提供更多關於高壓功率半導體的細節嗎？

Can you supply your product to automotive and industrial or even telecom equipments?

您能為汽車和工業甚至電信設備供應您的產品嗎？

And you tend to mention that IGBT, do have a IGBT process currently?

你常提到IGBT，目前有IGBT工藝嗎？

Well, I mean, okay.

嗯，我的意思是，好吧。

The -- from specialty technology, we are focused on a few areas.

從專業技術來看，我們專注於幾個領域。

One, we are still bringing out some of the new larger process technology, mainly for the outdoor low powers.

第一，我們仍在推出一些新的更大的工藝技術，主要針對戶外低功率。

And those will be currently focused on 22 and 40 for the ultra-low power, and so serving the low-power requirements.

這些目前將集中在超低功耗的 22 和 40 上，滿足低功耗要求。

The -- and for the other specialty, we also focus on the high-voltage for the display driver application.

對於其他專業，我們也專注於顯示驅動器應用的高電壓。

And across on 80-nanometer, 55, 40 and 28, we have embedded flash that go into 55 nanometers and for the IoT MCU applications.

在 80 奈米、55 奈米、40 奈米和 28 奈米製程上，我們已經嵌入了 55 奈米製程和物聯網 MCU 應用的快閃記憶體。

And we have the RF SOI applications coming into 12-inch, and the -- and that's mainly on the 12-inch side.

我們將 RF SOI 應用引入 12 英寸，並且主要集中在 12 英寸方面。

And the 48-inch, there's the BCDs, the -- and for the PMIC.

48 吋有 BCD、PMIC。

And so those are more on the advanced 8-inch.

所以這些更多是在先進的 8 英寸上。

I mentioned earlier for the IGBT and MOSFET is mainly for preparation of the migration to 8-inch mature technology.

我前面提到的IGBT和MOSFET主要是​​為向8英吋成熟技術遷移做準備。

And for those, we are still in the planning stage.

對於這些，我們仍處於規劃階段。

And since those are more coming from the IDM sort of customer, and we need to closely working with IDM customer for those product specifications, so at this point, and we have a plan, and -- but no specific on the IGBT yet.

由於這些更多來自 IDM 類客戶，我們需要與 IDM 客戶就這些產品規格密切合作，所以在這一點上，我們有一個計劃，而且 - 但還沒有具體的 IGBT。

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

So do you have a rough number how much is specialty semi account for your total revenue?

那麼，您是否知道專業半帳戶佔您總收入的粗略數字是多少？

See, right now is the specialty representing about 50%.

你看，現在專業的就佔了50%左右。

Right now, we're about logic and specialty split is about 50-50.

現在，我們的邏輯和專業劃分約為 50-50。

Okay.

好的。

So around the 50% of total revenue coming from that.

所以大約 50% 的總收入來自於此。

Okay.

好的。

And I would also like to consult your thoughts because you mentioned in your opening remarks that customers are still carefully managing their inventory.

我也想諮詢您的想法，因為您在開場白中提到，客戶仍在仔細管理他們的庫存。

So can you give us some sense about end-market demand?

那麼您能給我們一些關於終端市場需求的了解嗎？

Which segments do you see a stronger recovery and which segment you still see that, that remains still weak?

您認為哪些細分市場復甦強勁，哪些細分市場仍疲軟？

So we see the -- in Q3, we continue expecting communication will be the strongest segment, but we see some inventory replenishment there.

因此，我們在第三季度繼續預計通訊將是最強勁的部分，但我們看到那裡有一些庫存補充。

For the consumer and computer, actually it's weaker than the communications segment.

對於消費者和電腦來說，實際上它比通訊領域弱。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

And next would be a quick question about your cellphone, the 5G demand on major infrastructure or 5G smartphone.

接下來是一個關於您的手機、主要基礎設施或 5G 智慧型手機的 5G 需求的快速問題。

I'm not sure.

我不知道。

Do you have any exposure to 5G relative semiconductors?

您是否接觸過5G相關半導體？

But recently, it seems like several semiconductor companies are saying 5G demand is accelerating.

但最近，似乎有幾家半導體公司表示 5G 需求正在加速。

So can you share with your observation on the 5G demand?

那麼可以分享一下您對5G需求的觀察嗎？

We certainly have the similar expectation for 5G and we do also believe that 5G will come early than originally expected.

我們對5G當然也有類似的期待，也相信5G會比原本預想的更早到來。

And then 5G will address many different -- the spectrum of the technology nodes, all the range from very advanced to even the 8-inch.

然後 5G 將解決許多不同的問題——技術節點的範圍，從非常先進到甚至 8 英寸的所有範圍。

So no, I -- we definitely -- we're certainly engaging with many customers.

所以不，我——我們絕對——我們肯定會與許多客戶接觸。

Hopefully, we can penetrate those 5G growth.

希望我們能夠滲透 5G 的成長。

And we have a very similar expectation on 5G like others.

我們和其他人一樣對 5G 有著非常相似的期望。

Okay.

好的。

Yes.

是的。

So that's actually the question I want to clarify a little bit, right?

這其實是我想澄清一點的問題，對吧？

So I mean, year to date, we haven't seen operators revise outlook about their CapEx.

所以我的意思是，今年到目前為止，我們還沒有看到營運商修改其資本支出前景。

And also, after the trade war, I think outside of China, I think those countries are really concerned about whether 5G infrastructure development will get delayed.

而且，貿易戰之後，我認為在中國以外的國家，我認為這些國家確實擔心5G基礎設施的發展是否會被推遲。

So how do we reconcile from the headlines, I mean those trade war issue and also operators' CapEx versus what you and your industry peers are seeing, that demand is happening earlier than expected?

那麼，我們如何從頭條新聞中調和，我的意思是那些貿易戰問題以及運營商的資本支出與您和您的行業同行所看到的需求發生得早於預期的情況？

So what we missed from this dynamic?

那麼我們從這種動態中錯過了什麼？

Well, as a foundry company, we're engaging our customer as a product company.

嗯，作為一家鑄造公司，我們將客戶視為一家產品公司。

So they penetrate to the market.

所以他們滲透到市場。

So the way we measure that is based on their product introduction.

所以我們衡量的方式是基於他們的產品介紹。

So when we're engaging with their product, they're accelerating their tapeout plans and the product coverage.

因此，當我們接觸他們的產品時，他們正在加速他們的流片計劃和產品覆蓋範圍。

Then to us, that's a good sign.

那麼對我們來說，這是一個好兆頭。

Now whether the infrastructure of the 5G is existing or coming was subject to the bottom ramp.

現在5G基礎設施是否已經存在或即將到來都取決於底部斜坡。

So on the ramp perspective, we still have to -- we have to still -- monitoring that.

因此，從坡道的角度來看，我們仍然必須——我們仍然必須——監控這一點。

But from the product development standpoint, we start seeing quite a bit of activities there.

但從產品開發的角度來看，我們開始看到相當多的活動。

Okay.

好的。

So can we get some more color about what kind of 5G ready semiconductors you are working on?

那麼我們能否進一步了解你們正在研發哪一種 5G 半導體？

And we know a customer base -- are those -- are customers more from the Asia-based or U.S., Europe-based?

我們知道客戶群──是那些──客戶比較來自亞洲還是美國、歐洲？

Well, actually, it's across the board.

嗯，實際上，這是全面的。

From the events in our addressable other than -- 28, 22.

從我們可尋址的事件中，除 -- 28、22 之外。

And in those area, you see the millimeter wave coming in.

在這些區域，您會看到毫米波進入。

And all the way to the 8-inch mature or the PMIC.

並一直到8英寸成熟或PMIC。

And so in between, you have a display driver that's serving for the 8-K panels.

因此，在兩者之間，您有一個為 8-K 面板服務的顯示驅動程式。

So it is across the board variety different applications.

所以它是全面不同的應用程式。

Okay.

好的。

And lastly is a kind of a industry crosscheck, right?

最後是一種產業交叉檢查，對吧？

So I think 2 quarters ago, you mentioned that you want to try to negotiate the raw wafer price.

所以我認為兩個季度前，您提到您想嘗試協商原始晶圓價格。

So what's your expectation about the raw wafer OTA or so-called the counterparty in second half?

那麼您對下半年的原晶圓OTA或所謂的對手方有何期待呢？

And what's your expectation about OTA price in 2020?

您對2020年OTA價格有何預期？

Well, we've been talking about this for a couple of quarters now.

好吧，我們已經討論這個問題幾個季度了。

We mentioned that we have a long-term contract a couple of quarters ago.

我們在幾個季度前提到我們有一份長期合約。

And although we have those long-term contracts, the outgoing process we're working with the suppliers becomes a new norm now.

儘管我們有這些長期合同，但我們與供應商合作的離職流程現在已成為一種新規範。

So our process now is to continue working with supplier to achieving a cost competitiveness.

因此，我們現在的流程是繼續與供應商合作，以實現成本競爭力。

And this is only defining of an ongoing process.

這只是對一個正在進行的過程的定義。

In the same time, and we are also seeking alternative supplier that will help us improve our wafer cost as well.

同時，我們也在尋找替代供應商，以幫助我們提高晶圓成本。

So it is our plan to bring on additional supplier and -- to the existing long-term contract.

因此，我們計劃引入更多供應商，並在現有的長期合約基礎上增加供應商。

So those activities are also ongoing at this point.

因此，這些活動目前也正在進行中。

Okay.

好的。

So how -- okay.

那麼如何——好吧。

Okay.

好的。

Can you give us some guess about a raw wafer price next year?

您能否給我們一些關於明年原始晶圓價格的猜測？

Do you think it will go down?

你認為它會下降嗎？

And by how much?

增加多少？

Well, it's -- since it's an ongoing effort, and I mean we do believe it will go down, but no -- it's probably better not to quote percentage.

嗯，因為這是一項持續的努力，我的意思是我們確實相信它會下降，但不，最好不要引用百分比。

Yes.

是的。

And next, we'll have Sebastian Ho of CLSA for questions.

接下來，我們將請里昂證券的 Sebastian Ho 提問。

My first question, just a follow-up on the -- you mentioned the communication strength, the inventory replenishment continue into third quarter.

我的第一個問題，只是您提到的溝通力度、庫存補充持續到第三季的後續問題。

Can you be more specific about what exactly in this communication is more smartphone related or like other networking products?

您能否更具體地說明本次交流中到底什麼與智慧型手機更相關或與其他網路產品更相關？

It is in the smartphone space and...

它在智慧型手機領域......

Okay.

好的。

So it is more on the mid to low-end smartphone area?

那麼它更多的是中低階智慧型手機領域？

That's right.

這是正確的。

Do you think it is more driven by inventory replenishment by certain customers or driven by your customers getting share?

您認為這更多是由某些客戶補充庫存所驅動，還是由您的客戶獲得份額所驅動？

I think it's more -- I mean in our view, it's more of a inventory replenishment on those customers because we haven't really seen that across the board, but on some selected customer.

我認為這更多的是——我的意思是，在我們看來，這更多的是對這些客戶的庫存補充，因為我們並沒有真正全面地看到這一點，而是針對一些選定的客戶。

And we do believe that's more inventory adjustments.

我們確實相信這是更多的庫存調整。

It's hard to judge whether that's the market share gain or not of those customers, but (multiple speakers) for inventory.

很難判斷這是否是這些客戶的市佔率增益，而是（多位發言者）庫存。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

So you do see just only specific certain customers rather than across the board all the smartphone customers are doing that?

那麼您確實只看到了特定的某些客戶，而不是所有智慧型手機客戶都在這樣做？

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

And in terms of the -- a second question is that you talked about 65 nanometers and 90 nanometers, these mature 12-inch node, you are -- you expect it to continue to stay high.

就第二個問題而言，您談到了 65 奈米和 90 奈米，這些成熟的 12 吋節點，您預計它將繼續保持高位。

I'm just curious about what the specific applications here and why do you think that is sustainable?

我只是好奇這裡的具體應用是什麼以及為什麼您認為這是可持續的？

Well, in the near term, we see a very -- a steady volume on the 80-nanometer TDDI.

嗯，在短期內，我們看到 80 奈米 TDDI 的銷售量非常穩定。

So that's for the spree driver side, and it remains stable.

這就是瘋狂駕駛員側的情況，並且它保持穩定。

And we also see some of the 55 embedded flash from the consumer segment are very stable in that particular nodes.

我們也看到來自消費領域的 55 個嵌入式快閃記憶體中的一些在特定節點中非常穩定。

And that's the near term.

這是近期的情況。

And we'll see -- and we do see the -- those high utilization because of the growth of the follow-on technology.

我們將會看到——而且我們確實看到了——由於後續技術的發展而產生的高利用率。

The -- on the display that we're migrating from 80 to 55, so they will stay as a mature.

顯示器上顯示我們正在從 80 歲遷移到 55 歲，因此他們將保持成熟。

The consumer MCU will stay at 55.

消費性MCU將維持在55。

And while the -- our SSOI will probably coming into the 130, 90 and 55 in -- starting about 2020.

而從 2020 年左右開始，我們的 SSOI 可能會進入 130、90 和 55。

So we have certain expectation on this that those application will drive the sustainability of the utilization -- high utilizations.

因此，我們對此有一定的期望，即這些應用程式將推動利用率的可持續性——高利用率。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

And in terms of the -- the third question is on 28-nanometer.

就第三個問題而言，是關於 28 奈米的。

I think earlier, you mentioned that you are pretty confident that this year should be the bottom and -- because based on the products and visibility you have.

我想早些時候，您提到您非常有信心今年應該是底部，因為基於您擁有的產品和知名度。

My question is that I'm curious about what type of applications would this be?

我的問題是我很好奇這會是什麼類型的應用程式？

And then will it be mainly driven by 22-nanometer consumer application earlier, can you elaborate or also includes something else?

那麼早期主要是由 22 奈米消費應用驅動嗎？您能詳細說明一下還是還包括其他內容嗎？

Well, the -- both communicating and consumer segment will actually help to drive that, the potential growth in our 28.

嗯，通訊和消費領域實際上都將有助於推動我們 28 世紀的潛在成長。

Okay.

好的。

And in terms of communication, we -- it is reasonable for us to assume that's like non-smartphone-type of a network in such as WiFi?

就通訊而言，我們假設這就像 WiFi 等非智慧型手機類型的網路是合理的嗎？

Yes.

是的。

In the smartphone area, WiFi, some of the RF device, yes.

在智慧型手機領域，WiFi，一些射頻設備，是的。

Okay.

好的。

When you say RF devices, what are you referring to specifically?

當您提到射頻設備時，您具體指的是什麼？

Is it like RF transceiver?

它像射頻收發器嗎？

Yes.

是的。

RF transceiver, yes, right.

射頻收發器，是的，沒錯。

Okay, got it.

好，知道了。

Also, you expect those RF transceiver will -- are you gaining share from other foundries or you see there is a customer migrating from 40 to 28?

此外，您預計這些 RF 收發器會——您是否從其他代工廠獲得了份額，或者您看到有客戶從 40 家遷移到 28 家？

We can see actually a couple migrating to 28, yes.

是的，我們實際上可以看到有一對夫婦正在遷移到 28 歲。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

And what could happen to your 40-nanometer if those turn -- migrated to 28?

如果 40 奈米遷移到 28 奈米，會發生什麼事？

Those are not our current 40s customer.

這些不是我們目前的 40 多歲客戶。

Okay.

好的。

So basically, you are taking share from other -- your competitors' 40 nanometers, but they are migrating to 28, and you capture that?

所以基本上，你正在從其他人那裡奪取份額——你的競爭對手的 40 奈米，但他們正在遷移到 28 奈米，你抓住了這一點嗎？

Yes.

是的。

We are currently engaged in those, yes.

是的，我們目前正在從事這些工作。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Sounds good.

聽起來不錯。

Last one, just want to get some update on depreciation.

最後一篇，只是想了解一些有關折舊的最新資訊。

And can you update -- can you just update us on the depreciation outlook for this year and next year again?

您能否更新一下今年和明年的折舊前景？

Well, this year, again, it's about 5%-plus decline compared to that of last year.

嗯，今年又比去年下降了 5% 以上。

And next year, not so much difference.

而明年，差別就不那麼大了。

Maybe we are talking about low single-digit decline.

也許我們正在談論低個位數的下降。

Next year's only low single-digit decline?

明年唯一的低個位數下降？

Yes.

是的。

The main decline probably will have to wait until 2021.

主要的下跌恐怕要等到2021年了。

Okay.

好的。

But if I -- I'm not sure if I remember this correctly or incorrectly, but I thought that the next year depreciation was guided to decline more than this year.

但如果我——我不確定我是否記得正確或錯誤，但我認為明年的折舊率將比今年下降更多。

No.

不。

I think from the current status, we are talking about a little bit more than 5% decline in 2019 and only low single-digit decline next year, but a lot more decline, maybe close to a 10% decline or more, in 2021.

我認為從目前的狀況來看，我們談論的是2019 年的下降幅度略高於5%，明年的下降幅度僅為個位數，但2021 年的下降幅度會更大，可能接近10% 或更多。

Okay.

好的。

And this is based on the assumption that this year, you spent TWD 1 billion CapEx and next year probably flat?

這是基於這樣的假設：今年您花了 10 億新台幣的資本支出，明年可能持平？

Yes.

是的。

That's right.

這是正確的。

(Operator Instructions) And the next one is coming from Kirsten Li of Goldman Sachs

（操作說明）下一篇來自高盛的 Kirsten Li

This is Bruce from Goldman.

我是高盛的布魯斯。

So I just want to go back to the R&D expenses.

所以我只想回到研發費用。

Okay?

好的？

We start to see some R&D expenses decline to probably like TWD 2.7 billion, TWD 2.8 billion.

我們開始看到一些研發費用降到大概27億新台幣、28億新台幣。

I think is that a new norm of modern purpose?

我認為這是現代目的的新規範嗎？

Or for a longer-term perspective, what is the ideal R&D expenses as a percentage of revenue in the future?

或者從更長遠的角度來看，未來理想的研發費用佔收入的比例是多少？

Because we -- I still have difficulty to understand that, after we're showing all the R&D -- our investment for 14-nanometer and above, we still do not see a meaningful R&D expenses decline.

因為我們——我仍然很難理解，在我們展示了所有研發——我們對 14 奈米及以上技術的投資之後，我們仍然沒有看到研發費用有意義的下降。

We see some R&D expense decline, but at the same time, we are reprioritize our R&D team for the -- allocate those resource to specialty technology, I also mentioned earlier.

我們看到一些研發費用下降，但同時，我們正在重新調整研發團隊的優先順序，將這些資源分配給專業技術，我之前也提到過。

And those specialty technology will cut across on 8 and 12-inch technologies.

這些專業技術將跨越 8 吋和 12 吋技術。

And meanwhile, we also try to -- we're still bringing up some new and larger process technologies I reported earlier for the ultra-low power in 28 and 40 as well.

同時，我們也嘗試 - 我們仍在推出一些我之前報導過的新的、更大的工藝技術，以實現 28 和 40 的超低功耗。

So there's still quite a bit of engineering activities ongoing.

因此仍有相當多的工程活動正在進行中。

But for the longer term, idea is -- if the absolute dollar will stay flat in our revenue growth and the ratio will reduce.

但從長遠來看，我們的想法是——如果絕對美元在我們的收入成長中保持平穩，那麼該比率就會降低。

So we'll continue tracking that progress and we'll adjust accordingly.

因此，我們將繼續追蹤進度並進行相應調整。

At this point, there is no -- we project those will probably stay (technical difficulty)

在這一點上，沒有——我們預計這些可能會保留（技術難度）

I'm sorry.

對不起。

I'll try to dig a bit further.

我會嘗試進一步挖掘。

The reason is that -- we understand you are trying to prioritize or try to move the R&D spend to someone else -- to do something else.

原因是——我們理解你們正試圖優先考慮或試圖將研發支出轉移給其他人——去做其他事情。

But at the end of the day, the R&D expenses as a percentage of sales should be very different when you do the advanced geometry, versus like a negative product or various different products.

但歸根結底，當您進行高級幾何圖形時，研發費用佔銷售額的百分比應該非常不同，這與負產品或各種不同的產品不同。

So the metrics should be very different, right?

所以指標應該要有很大不同，對嗎？

I didn't quite -- what do you mean by the metrics should be quite different?

我不太明白──你所說的指標應該完全不同是什麼意思？

So the index is, for example, TSMC is doing a lot of like advanced geometry development.

所以指標就是，比如說台積電正在做很多像是高階幾何的開發。

At the end of the day, their R&D expenses as a percentage for their sales is still at 8%, which is similar to UMC at this moment.

最終，他們的研發費用佔銷售額的比例仍是8%，與目前的聯華電子差不多。

And if the company is guiding for like a similar R&D percentage -- R&D expenses as a percentage of sales.

如果公司指導類似的研發百分比—研發費用佔銷售額的百分比。

But in terms of the costs for doing the R&D versus costs of a legacy product, I think it should be -- we should feel that we'll see some differences, right?

但就研發成本與遺留產品的成本而言，我認為應該是──我們應該覺得我們會看到一些差異，對吧？

Or that's why I'm asking for the longer-term perspective.

或者這就是為什麼我要尋求更長遠的視角。

Do we expect a very different R&D expenses?

我們預計研發費用會有很大不同嗎？

Well, as I said, for the longer term, it will change, but not for the near term.

嗯，正如我所說，從長遠來看，它會改變，但短期內不會改變。

In the longer.

在更長的時間裡。

Let's say in 3 years, what is the ideal R&D expenses though as a percentage of sales?

假設 3 年後，理想的研發費用佔銷售額的百分比是多少？

Well, it depends the -- our R&D project and the focus of the market.

嗯，這取決於我們的研發項目和市場的焦點。

And it's too early to project that right now.

現在預測這一點還為時過早。

But you are right.

但你是對的。

From a metric standpoint, in the longer term will change, but giving what our foreseeable projects today, and we don't see that change in the near term.

從指標的角度來看，從長遠來看將會發生變化，但考慮到我們今天可預見的項目，我們在短期內看不到這種變化。

Near term means about 1 to 2 years?

近期是指大約1到2年嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Within the 2 years.

2年內。

Yes.

是的。

I see.

我懂了。

I understand that.

我明白那個。

The second thing is that I try to dig a bit more about medium-term outlook.

第二件事是我嘗試更多地挖掘中期前景。

The management just mentioned that the longer term is still positive, but you do expect some short-term volatility.

管理層剛才提到，長期來看仍然是正面的，但你確實預期短期會出現一些波動。

However, you are guiding for flat utilization in third quarter.

然而，您正在指導第三季的單位利用率。

The industry or for TSMC or they are guiding for some recovery from 8-inch in the fourth quarter.

業界或對台積電或對第四季的8吋有所指引。

So what kind of volatility are UMC seeing in fourth quarter or early next year?

那麼聯華電子在第四季或明年初會出現什麼樣的波動呢？

Well, first of all, we don't guide anything beyond Q3.

嗯，首先，我們不會指導第三季度之後的任何事情。

Our view is -- as we start experiencing some improvement, demand from communication and computer segment, however, the visibility on automotive and industrial segment still remains low.

我們的觀點是，隨著通訊和電腦領域的需求開始有所改善，然而，汽車和工業領域的能見度仍然很低。

So since the -- those will still be -- remains low, we won't rule out the near-term volatility at this point.

因此，由於這些仍將保持在較低水平，因此我們目前不排除近期波動的可能性。

I see.

我懂了。

I see.

我懂了。

Understand.

理解。

So that -- there is nothing that you see that fourth quarter or like anything in fourth quarter is below then the expectation or anything like that, right?

所以，你沒有看到第四季或第四季的任何事情低於預期或類似的情況，對吧？

Well, when the visibility is low, it's hard to -- so it becomes higher uncertainties.

嗯，當能見度很低時，就很難——所以它的不確定性就變得更高。

Right now, the biggest concern we have is the recovery of our automotive and industrial.

目前，我們最關心的是汽車和工業的復甦。

We haven't really seen that coming.

我們還沒有真正預見到這一點。

And if the near term, the communication is really a short-term -- the upward -- uptick of the inventory adjustment or replenishment, and we don't know how sustainable that is.

如果從短期來看，溝通實際上是庫存調整或補貨的短期上升，我們不知道這種情況的可持續性如何。

So the question is really about the visibility and that cause some of the uncertainty from our point, yes.

所以問題實際上是關於可見性，這導致了我們觀點的一些不確定性，是的。

Okay.

好的。

I see.

我懂了。

Can you remind us that what is the revenue exposure to automotive and industrial in 8-inch?

您能否提醒我們，8 吋汽車和工業領域的收入敞口是多少？

Of automotive in 8-inch?

汽車8吋？

Total is about 5% to 6% of our total revenue PAT, so...

總計約為我們總收入 PAT 的 5% 至 6%，所以...

I see.

我懂了。

That's for automotive.

那是汽車用的。

How about -- that's for automotive or automotive plus industrial?

怎麼樣－這是針對汽車或汽車加工業的？

Automotive plus industrial, right?

汽車加工業，對吧？

Yes.

是的。

It's about 10%, close to 10%, right.

大約是10%，接近10%，對吧。

We thank you for your questions.

我們感謝您的提問。

That concludes today's Q&A session.

今天的問答環節到此結束。

I'll turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

我會將事情轉交給 UMC IR 主管進行總結發言。

Thank you for attending this conference today.

感謝您參加今天的這次會議。

We appreciate your questions.

我們感謝您的提問。

As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir@umc.com.

與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時透過 ir@umc.com 聯絡 UMC。

Have a good day.

祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for second quarter 2019.

女士們、先生們，我們 2019 年第二季的會議到此結束。

Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference.

感謝您參加聯華電子的會議。

There will be a webcast replay within 1 hour.

1小時內將進行網路直播重播。

Please visit www.umc.com under the Investors Events section.

請造訪 www.umc.com 的「投資者活動」部分。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。

Goodbye.

再見。