聯華電子 (UMC) 2019 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome everyone to UMC's 2019 First Quarter Earnings Conference Call.

歡迎大家參加聯電2019年第一季度財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) For your information, this conference call is now being broadcasted live over the Internet.

（操作員說明）供您參考，此電話會議現在正在互聯網上直播。

Webcast replay will be available within an hour after the conference is finished.

會議結束後一小時內將提供網絡直播重播。

Please visit our website, www.umc.com under the Investor Relations, Investors, Events section.

請訪問我們的網站 www.umc.com 的“投資者關係”、“投資者”、“活動”部分。

And now I would like to introduce Mr. Michael Lin, Head of Investor Relations at UMC.

現在我想介紹一下聯華電子投資者關係主管Michael Lin先生。

Mr. Lin, please begin.

林先生，請開始。

Thank you, and welcome to the UMC's conference call for the first quarter of 2019.

謝謝，歡迎來到聯華電子 2019 年第一季度電話會議。

I'm joined by Mr. Jason Wang, the President of UMC; and Mr. Chitung Liu, the CFO of UMC.

聯電總裁 Jason Wang 先生加入了我的行列；以及聯電首席財務官劉啟東先生。

In a moment, we will hear our CFO present the first quarter financial results, followed by our President's key message to address UMC's forecast and the second quarter 2019 guidance.

稍後，我們將聽到我們的首席財務官介紹第一季度的財務業績，然後是我們的總裁關於解決 UMC 預測和 2019 年第二季度指導的關鍵信息。

Once our President and CFO complete their remarks, there will be a Q&A session.

我們的總裁和首席財務官完成發言後，將進行問答環節。

UMC's quarterly financial reports are available at our website, www.umc.com, under the Investors Financial section.

UMC 的季度財務報告可在我們的網站 www.umc.com 的“投資者財務”部分獲取。

During this conference, we will make forward-looking statements based on the management's current expectations and beliefs.

在這次會議期間，我們將根據管理層當前的預期和信念做出前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks that may be beyond company's control.

這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定因素的影響，這些風險和不確定因素可能導致實際結果出現重大差異，包括可能超出公司控制範圍的風險。

For these risks, please refer to UMC's filings with the SEC in the U.S. and the ROC security authorities.

有關這些風險，請參閱聯華電子向美國證券交易委員會和中華民國安全當局提交的文件。

Now I would like to introduce UMC's CFO, Mr. Chitung Liu to discuss our first quarter 2019 financial results.

現在我想介紹聯華電子的首席財務官劉志東先生來討論我們 2019 年第一季度的財務業績。

Thank you, Michael.

謝謝你，邁克爾。

I would like to go through the first quarter '19 investor conference presentation material, which can be downloaded from our website.

我想看一下 19 年第一季度投資者會議的演示材料，可以從我們的網站下載。

Starting on Page 3, the first quarter of 2019, consolidated revenue was TWD 32.58 billion, with gross margin at 6.9%.

從第 3 頁開始，2019 年第一季度合併收入為新台幣 325.8 億元，毛利率為 6.9%。

The net income attributable to the stockholder of the parent was TWD 1.2 billion and the earnings per ordinary shares were TWD 0.10.

歸屬於母公司股東的淨利潤為12億元新台幣，每股普通股收益為0.10新台幣。

And for capacity utilization rate was 83% in the first quarter compared to 88% in the previous quarter or 94% in the first quarter of 2018.

第一季度的產能利用率為 83%，而上一季度為 88%，2018 年第一季度為 94%。

And the revenue decline was mainly due to this lower utilization rate.

收入下降主要是由於較低的利用率。

Page 4. Our sequential comparison 8.3% decline in revenue to TWD 32.5 billion is mainly due to this utilization rate decline I mentioned.

第 4 頁。我們的連續比較收入下降 8.3% 至 325 億新台幣，這主要是由於我提到的利用率下降。

Gross margin, as a result, dropped 50% to TWD 2.2 billion in the first quarter of '19 from TWD 4.6 billion in the previous quarter.

結果，19 年第一季度毛利率從上一季度的 46 億新台幣下降 50% 至 22 億新台幣。

However, we are helped by the reversal of the nonoperating income, mainly due to the stock market recovery.

然而，我們受益於營業外收入的逆轉，這主要是由於股市復蘇。

Our nonoperating income in Q1 '19 was TWD 1.24 billion (sic) [TWD 1.25 billion] versus nearly TWD 2 billion loss in the previous quarter.

我們在 19 年第一季度的非營業收入為 12.4 億新台幣（原文如此）[12.5 億新台幣]，而上一季度虧損近 20 億新台幣。

So our net income attributable to stockholder of the parent in Q1 '19 is TWD 1.2 billion or equivalent EPS of TWD 0.10.

因此，我們在 19 年第一季度歸屬於母公司股東的淨收入為 12 億新台幣或相當於 0.10 新台幣的每股收益。

So on Page 5 is the year-over-year comparison.

因此，第 5 頁是同比比較。

And revenue declined 13.1%, and gross margin decline rate was similar compared to the previous quarter, also around 50%.

收入下降13.1%，毛利率下降幅度與上一季度相近，也在50%左右。

And the capacity utilization rate in the same quarter of 2018 was 94%.

而2018年同季度的產能利用率為94%。

Page 6 is our balance sheet.

第 6 頁是我們的資產負債表。

Our cash and cash equivalents continued to pile up given our more disciplined capital expenditure and stayed around TWD 88.7 billion right now.

鑑於我們更嚴格的資本支出，我們的現金和現金等價物繼續積累，目前保持在 887 億新台幣左右。

And our stockholder equity is around TWD 210 billion.

我們的股東權益約為2100億新台幣。

On Page 7, our ASP in Q1 is relatively stable.

在第 7 頁，我們第一季度的 ASP 相對穩定。

And on the next page, we see a major increase in our shares from Asia, and North America showed biggest decline around 6 percentage point in revenue breakdown.

在下一頁上，我們看到亞洲的份額大幅增加，而北美的收入細分下降幅度最大，約為 6 個百分點。

Page 9. IDM represent 6% of the total revenue and in the previous quarter, it was around 8%.

第 9 頁。IDM 佔總收入的 6%，上一季度約為 8%。

Page 10.

第 10 頁。

The communication rebound to 48% of the total revenue and the rest is relatively stable.

通訊回升至總收入的48%，其餘相對穩定。

And in terms of technology breakdown in Page 11, we see a steady 28-nanometer revenue contribution around 10%, and 14-nanometer because of the weakness in the cryptocurrency market still remain minimum, and we see some decline in 40-nanometer from 23% to 20% of the revenue breakdown.

就第 11 頁的技術細分而言，我們看到 28 納米的收入貢獻穩定在 10% 左右，而 14 納米由於加密貨幣市場的疲軟仍然保持最低，我們看到 40 納米從 23收入細分的 % 到 20%。

On Page 12, we will see a mild capacity increase in quarter 2, mainly due to a lower base in Q1 due to shorter working days and annual maintenance.

在第 12 頁，我們將看到第二季度產能溫和增長，這主要是由於工作日縮短和年度維護導致第一季度基數較低。

We will also see some slight capacity increase in both (inaudible) in China.

我們還將看到中國（聽不清）的產能略有增加。

And CapEx in 2019 remain around USD 1 billion, still unchanged.

而2019年CapEx維持在10億美元左右，依舊沒有變化。

So the above is the summary of the UMC result for first quarter 2019.

以上就是聯華電子 2019 年第一季度的業績總結。

And more details are available in the report, which has been posted on our website.

報告中提供了更多詳細信息，該報告已發佈在我們的網站上。

I will now turn the call over to our President, Mr. Wang.

我現在將電話轉交給我們的總裁王先生。

Thank you, Chitung.

謝謝你，啟東。

Good evening, everyone.

各位晚上好。

Here, I would like to update the first quarter operating results of UMC.

在這裡，我想更新一下聯華電子第一季度的經營業績。

In the first quarter, foundry revenue declined 8.3% quarter-over-quarter to TWD 32.56 billion, leading to a foundry operating loss of 4.6%.

第一季度代工收入環比下降 8.3% 至新台幣 325.6 億元，導致代工運營虧損 4.6%。

Utilization rate was 83%, bringing wafer shipment to 1.61 million, 8-inch equivalent wafers.

利用率為83%，晶圓出貨量達到161萬片，8英寸等效晶圓。

Although overall wafer demand declined during the first quarter, we observed stable wafer shipments from the wireless communications segment, solidified it by smartphone-related components, such as display, RF, application processor and baseband modem.

儘管第一季度整體晶圓需求下降，但我們觀察到無線通信領域的晶圓出貨量穩定，智能手機相關組件（如顯示器、RF、應用處理器和基帶調製解調器）鞏固了這一趨勢。

We continue to build on our promise to building the shareholder value, and in Q1, our Board of Directors proposed to distribute a cash dividend of approximately TWD 0.58 per share, subject to shareholder approval during the annual shareholder meeting.

我們繼續兌現建立股東價值的承諾，在第一季度，我們的董事會提議派發每股約新台幣 0.58 元的現金股息，但須經股東在年度股東大會上批准。

Entering the second quarter of 2019, UMC will sustain its energy and its continuing transformation, which will allow us to best take advantage of improving wafer demand within wired and wireless communication segments, with smartphones, networking and display-related products continually seeing better-than-expected conditions.

進入 2019 年第二季，聯電將保持活力和持續轉型，這將使我們能夠最好地利用有線和無線通信領域不斷改善的晶圓需求，智能手機、網絡和顯示相關產品的業績持續好於預期- 預期條件。

Going forward, our strategy to stay focused on developing existing logic and specialty solutions across numerous technology platforms will help us enhance our market relevance to secure future business and expand our presence in the IC industry.

展望未來，我們繼續專注於開發跨眾多技術平台的現有邏輯和專業解決方案的戰略將幫助我們提高市場相關性，以確保未來業務的安全並擴大我們在 IC 行業的影響力。

We are confident that by continuing to buy responsibly and execute our technology development, capacity expansion and manufacturing excellence, we can bring optimal value to the company, its shareholders and employees.

我們相信，通過繼續負責任地採購和執行我們的技術開發、產能擴張和卓越製造，我們可以為公司、其股東和員工帶來最佳價值。

Now let's move onto the second quarter 2019 guidance.

現在讓我們進入 2019 年第二季度的指導。

Our wafer shipment will show an increase of 6% to 7%.

我們的晶圓出貨量將增長 6% 至 7%。

ASP in US dollars is expected to increase by 3%.

預計以美元計算的平均售價將增長 3%。

Gross profit margin will be in the low teens percentage range and capacity utilization rate will be in the mid-80 percentage range.

毛利率將處於較低的十幾%範圍內，產能利用率將處於80%左右的範圍內。

For foundry CapEx budget of 2019, it will be USD 1 billion.

2019 年晶圓代工資本支出預算為 10 億美元。

That concludes my comments.

我的評論到此結束。

Thank you all for your attention.

謝謝大家的關注。

Now we are ready for questions.

現在我們準備好提問了。

(Operator Instructions) The first question is coming from Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Crédit Suisse 的 Randy Abrams。

I wanted to ask the first question.

我想問第一個問題。

If you could provide an update on some of the upcoming milestones for developments just relating to, I guess, 3 things: the Fujitsu Mie, the closure of that facility, also a progress on the China listing, and any milestones upcoming on the Micron Jinhua case?

如果你能提供一些即將到來的發展里程碑的更新，我想，這與三件事有關：富士通 Mie、該工廠的關閉、中國上市的進展以及美光金華即將到來的任何里程碑案件？

I think for the Fujitsu Mie fab, we already received the Taiwan-related approval and we are waiting for other government approval.

我認為對於富士通三重工廠，我們已經獲得了與台灣相關的批准，我們正在等待其他政府的批准。

We are still in the process and we still have about 6 months left in this purchase agreement.

我們仍在處理中，我們還有大約 6 個月的時間來完成此購買協議。

So we still have some time waiting for the approval to come.

所以我們還有一些時間等待批准的到來。

And for the time being, it's not up to us to predict when we can receive the relevant approval.

而我們暫時無法預測何時能獲得相關批准。

And as for China listing for -- again, including UMC, we have submitted the applications to this Science and Technology Innovation Board for Shanghai Stock Exchange in March -- mid-March and now it's being reviewed -- assessed, and also reviewed by the authority.

至於中國上市——同樣，包括聯華電子，我們已經在 3 月——3 月中旬向上海證券交易所科創板提交了申請，現在正在審查——評估，也由權威。

Again this is purely up to the authority to determine the progress and schedule for the listing.

同樣，這完全取決於確定上市進度和時間表的當局。

And as for the legal case with Jinhua and also U.S. Department of Justice, there is no any development since our call last time or our formal press release last time.

至於與金華和美國司法部的法律案件，自從我們上次打電話或上次正式新聞發布以來，沒有任何進展。

So no further development yet.

所以還沒有進一步的發展。

Okay.

好的。

And maybe just one follow-up on the -- for the Fujitsu case with the 6 months left in the purchase, is that a 6 months, if it's not approved, the deal?

也許只是關於 - 對於富士通案件的後續行動，還有 6 個月的購買時間，如果沒有獲得批准，那是 6 個月的交易嗎？

Or what is -- is that, that the deal is called off in 6 months?

或者是什麼——是說交易在 6 個月內取消？

And I guess, for the original planned closure, has there been -- is it more just regulatory certain things delaying closure?

而且我想，對於最初計劃的關閉，有沒有 - 是否只是監管某些事情延遲關閉？

I guess, you're confidence in the closure and then maybe what happens in 6 months?

我想，您對關閉很有信心，然後也許 6 個月後會發生什麼？

We still have 6 months to close the deal according to the existing purchase agreement.

根據現有的購買協議，我們還有 6 個月的時間來完成交易。

And of course, it seems for outside of the current purchase agreement, everything need to be renegotiated.

當然，似乎在當前的購買協議之外，一切都需要重新談判。

Okay.

好的。

The second question I wanted to ask just on the guidance.

我想問的第二個問題只是關於指南。

It's, I guess, 2 parts.

我猜是 2 個部分。

One for the ASP on the few percent increase.

一個為 ASP 增加了百分之幾。

Normally, first quarter, there is a bit of annual price reset, so I was curious just pricing environment into this year, whether that's normal or anything abnormal with the pricing going into this year?

通常，第一季度會有一些年度價格重置，所以我很好奇今年的定價環境，今年的定價是正常的還是有什麼不正常的？

And then from a mix factor, it looks like mix of advanced coming back.

然後從混合因素來看，它看起來像是高級回歸的混合。

So if you could talk about the 28 and 40, how much is factored in?

所以如果你能談談 28 和 40，有多少被考慮在內？

Or what applications might be driving that, if that's the other factor?

或者，如果這是另一個因素，哪些應用程序可能會推動這一點？

Well, the ASP increase in the Q2 guidance refers to basic product mix in the 12-inch.

那麼，第二季度指導中的 ASP 增長是指 12 英寸的基本產品組合。

While we think the loading across the 8-inch and 12-inch overall company will be somewhere in the mid-80s percentage, and that's probably similar loading estimate for both 8- and 12-inch at this point, so we definitely see some increase around the 12-inch, so that help on the ASP mix.

雖然我們認為整個公司 8 英寸和 12 英寸的負載將在 80 年代中期的某個百分比，而且此時 8 英寸和 12 英寸的負載估計可能相似，所以我們肯定會看到一些增長12寸左右，這樣對ASP搭配有幫助。

Right now we don't have for the breakdown of the each technology nodes, we see pretty -- we see some increase on the 28, and we see some increase on the 40, and while the 65 remains flat.

現在我們沒有每個技術節點的細分，我們看到很漂亮——我們看到 28 有一些增長，我們看到 40 有一些增長，而 65 保持不變。

So obviously, from the mix standpoint, the more advance as they improve a little, but it slightly increased.

所以很明顯，從混合的角度來看，隨著它們的改進，越提前，但它略有增加。

The -- while 8-inch dropping to 85% and in general, the 80% and 90% -- 80- and 90-nanometers is fully loaded at this point, yes.

- 雖然 8 英寸下降到 85%，一般來說，80% 和 90% - 80 和 90 納米此時已滿載，是的。

Okay.

好的。

I'm curious maybe just the last question I want to follow-up on the 8-inch drop to 85% because I think you're full even later into the slow down.

我很好奇，也許這只是我想跟進的關於 8 英寸下降到 85% 的最後一個問題，因為我認為你已經吃飽了，甚至在減速之後。

So maybe the factors like on slowdown, what you're seeing there?

那麼也許是像經濟放緩這樣的因素，你在那裡看到了什麼？

And how you see the rest of the year if you expect the utilization to tighten up?

如果您預計利用率會收緊，您如何看待今年剩餘時間？

And maybe the other part of the question, in the prepared remarks you mentioned about smartphone, networking, display better.

也許問題的另一部分，在你提到的關於智能手機、網絡的準備好的評論中，顯示效果更好。

If you can talk a bit more on the improvement, is that a function of what you're seeing in terms of inventory levels, just customer activity with less fear of trade war?

如果你能多談談改進，這是否是你在庫存水平方面看到的功能，只是客戶活動對貿易戰的恐懼較少？

Or kind of if you think most of this is just the seasonality kicking in, but maybe, if you can talk a little more about the pickup in activity you're seeing from customers.

或者，如果你認為這大部分只是季節性的影響，但也許，如果你能多談談你從客戶那裡看到的活動增加。

Sure.

當然。

Before the 8-inch specific, the overall inventory situation we observe, we see the inventory situation has improved, but with sound segments, okay, that is doing better than the others.

8寸具體之前，我們觀察整體的庫存情況，我們看到庫存情況有所改善，但是有聲音部分，好吧，那就是比其他人做得更好。

The recovery we have observed is more in the mobile communication and computing space segment.

我們觀察到的複蘇更多發生在移動通信和計算領域。

However, the automotive and consumer may take a longer time to recover, and we are observing some of the inventory situation improved.

然而，汽車和消費者可能需要更長的時間才能恢復，我們觀察到一些庫存情況有所改善。

Now if that reflects our 8-inch as well, so we are seeing the mobile space growing, increase in the 8-inch, while with the -- the inventory correction on consumer in automotive segment continue.

現在，如果這也反映了我們的 8 英寸，那麼我們看到移動空間在增長，8 英寸的增長，同時汽車領域消費者的庫存修正仍在繼續。

Okay.

好的。

But we do believe that Q2 '19 will be the straw of the 8-inch loading and 8-inch loading will start to improve and recover in the second half of '19.

但我們確實相信，19 年第二季度將成為 8 英寸裝載的稻草，而 8 英寸裝載將在 19 年下半年開始改善和恢復。

And the next question is coming from Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

下一個問題來自華興資本的Szeho Ng。

Two questions from my side.

我這邊的兩個問題。

First one regarding the net other operating income.

第一個關於淨其他營業收入。

How should we model that one going forward because it has been quite volatile every quarter?

我們應該如何對未來進行建模，因為它每個季度都非常不穩定？

For the first quarter, rebound in the net operating income is mainly due to the recovery in the stock price as you understand that UMC has plenty of holdings, especially in the Taiwan Stock Market, and we took a bit in Q4 of last year because of the downturn and now we also recovered about TWD 1.2 billion also in the first quarter of this year due to the same reason.

第一季度淨營業收入的反彈主要是由於股價的回升，你知道聯電持有大量股票，尤其是在台灣股票市場，我們在去年第四季度採取了一些措施，因為由於同樣的原因，我們在今年第一季度也恢復了約 12 億新台幣的經濟衰退。

And interest expenses, every quarter is around TWD 500 million, and we also have about TWD 500 million ForEx gains in the first quarter due to the strengthened renminbi versus US dollars, given our U.S. dollar syndicated loans for our China operation.

利息支出，每個季度約為 5 億新台幣，由於我們為中國業務提供美元銀團貸款，由於人民幣兌美元走強，我們在第一季度也有大約 5 億新台幣的外匯收益。

So it's a bit volatile or unpredictable to really budget for second quarter, given the factor involves some markets as well as the currencies, so the major 3 components as I just explained, and maybe you have much better clear view on that than ourselves.

因此，考慮到這個因素涉及一些市場和貨幣，所以第二季度的真正預算有點不穩定或不可預測，所以我剛才解釋的主要 3 個組成部分，也許你對此有比我們更清楚的看法。

Okay.

好的。

All right.

好的。

And second one on the dividend payout ratio.

第二個關於股息支付率。

Given the strong cash generation and also the cash on hand, is it fair to assume over 100% payout ratio is possible in future?

鑑於強勁的現金產生和手頭現金，假設未來可能超過 100% 的派息率是否公平？

Well, it's not impossible, however, I think we have been trying to give consistent expectations from our shareholders in terms of dividend payout.

好吧，這並非不可能，但是，我認為我們一直在努力讓股東在股息支付方面保持一致的期望。

And last year, our Board has approved our proposal to payout 100%, which is subject to the shareholders meeting approval.

去年，我們的董事會批准了我們支付 100% 的提議，這需要股東大會批准。

And at the same time today, during our Board meeting, we have approved another round of share buyback, which is around 1.6% of the outstanding shares.

同時，在今天的董事會會議上，我們批准了另一輪股票回購，約佔已發行股票的 1.6%。

So from a total [combination] or total shareholder returns perspective, UMC will continue to utilize the strength in our free cash flow and also the cash on hand.

因此，從總 [組合] 或股東總回報的角度來看，聯電將繼續利用我們自由現金流和手頭現金的優勢。

We will certainly consider every angle in order to provide total package.

我們一定會考慮各個角度，以提供完整的包裝。

(Operator Instructions) And next we'll have Roland Shu of Citi.

（操作員說明）接下來我們將請花旗銀行的 Roland Shu 發言。

So your channel said that in the last year, we recognized a loss of about TWD 7.2 billion.

所以你的頻道說，在去年，我們確認了大約 72 億新台幣的虧損。

I just want to understand was the loss mainly due to not economic scale or due to low utilization or other reasons?

我只想了解，虧損主要是經濟規模不夠還是利用率低還是其他原因？

Then for this fab, what is the capacity for Xiamen fab to reach an economy scale?

那麼對於這個晶圓廠來說，廈門晶圓廠達到經濟規模的能力是多少？

And how much CapEx you need to continue invest to reach this economy scale?

您需要繼續投資多少資本支出才能達到這種經濟規模？

Xiamen, we own currently a little over 50%.

廈門，我們目前擁有略多於 50% 的股份。

So the number you quote UMC only need to recognize about 2/3 of that.

所以你引用UMC的數字只需要認出其中的2/3左右。

And current capacity is 17,000 wafer per month and near-term target is to ramp to 25,000 wafer per month, which the level we think should be also considered as a level for economic scales.

目前的產能是每月 17,000 片晶圓，近期目標是提高到每月 25,000 片晶圓，我們認為這個水平也應該被視為經濟規模的水平。

And the additional CapEx will be relatively lower if you compare to the per 1,000 CapEx for the first 17,000 we already built.

如果與我們已經建造的前 17,000 個的每 1,000 個資本支出相比，額外的資本支出將相對較低。

Due to that we don't really need to buy every equipment from scratch.

因此，我們真的不需要從頭開始購買所有設備。

So in terms of number, we haven't really finalized the product mix compensation yet, so there is really no final figures in terms of the CapEx to take shipments up to 25,000.

所以就數量而言，我們還沒有真正確定產品組合補償，所以就資本支出而言，確實沒有最終數字將出貨量提高到 25,000。

However, our CapEx this year, the $1 billion budget, about 75% is 12-inch related, and 25% is 8-inch related.

然而，我們今年的 CapEx，10 億美元的預算，大約 75% 與 12 英寸相關，25% 與 8 英寸相關。

Among the USD 750 million, I will say more than 60%, 70% is Xiamen related.

在這7.5億美元中，我說60%以上，70%與廈門有關。

Okay.

好的。

And then, Chitung, you said, you are trying to expand to 25,000 wafers per month.

然後，Chitung，你說，你正試圖擴大到每月 25,000 片晶圓。

So do you have a time line for this 25,000 wafer per month capacity?

那麼對於這個每月 25,000 片晶圓的產能，您有時間表嗎？

It's a moving progress.

這是一個不斷進步的過程。

It's up to the customer demand, and as I mentioned, we haven't even finalized the technology composition for the additional 8,000 wafer capacity, so it will take at least multiple quarters.

這取決於客戶的需求，正如我提到的，我們甚至還沒有最終確定額外 8,000 片晶圓產能的技術構成，因此至少需要多個季度。

Yes, so before we reach this 25,000 wafer per month, even we load at a 100% utilization for existing capacity, will it be possible for this fab to be breakeven or to be profitable?

是的，所以在我們達到每月 25,000 片晶圓之前，即使我們以 100% 的利用率加載現有產能，這個晶圓廠是否有可能實現盈虧平衡或盈利？

Still it's going to be difficult, but the loss certainly will be significantly reduced that's for sure.

仍然會很困難，但損失肯定會大大減少，這是肯定的。

Okay.

好的。

My second question is for first quarter, even you are -- you load at 83% utilization, but first quarter was operating days were loss making, so it looks like your breakeven utilization now seem to be near or higher than 90%.

我的第二個問題是關於第一季度的，即使你是——你的負載利用率為 83%，但第一季度的運營天數是虧損的，所以看起來你的盈虧平衡利用率現在似乎接近或高於 90%。

I think this is higher than 2018 or 2017 level, so was it due to the product mix change or the low ASP?

我認為這高於 2018 年或 2017 年的水平，這是由於產品組合變化還是低 ASP？

And how will this breakeven utilization look in second half this year?

今年下半年這種盈虧平衡利用率會如何？

That's not totally correct.

這並不完全正確。

If you're using our quarter 2 guidance, our 80 -- mid 80% range capacity utilization will actually lead us to have around low teens in gross margin, which also suggests at least a breakeven in terms of operating profit.

如果您使用我們的第二季度指導，我們 80% - 80% 的產能利用率實際上會導致我們的毛利率處於較低水平，這也表明至少在營業利潤方面達到盈虧平衡。

So I will say, more like a mid-80 range rather than anything close to 90% in terms of break-even point.

所以我會說，就盈虧平衡點而言，更像是 80% 左右的範圍，而不是接近 90% 的範圍。

Okay.

好的。

So this mid-80 percentage point breakeven utilization will be well-maintained in second half or going forward?

那麼這個 80 個百分點中期的盈虧平衡利用率將在下半年或未來得到很好的維持？

Or this will be further improved?

或者這將進一步改進？

I think our President definitely has a more aggressive target, but I think we'll certainly continue to be more optimized.

我認為我們的總統肯定有一個更積極的目標，但我認為我們肯定會繼續更加優化。

Anything Jason want to comment?

Jason 有什麼要評論的嗎？

Definitely not satisfied with the current breakeven point, and we have been progressively driving this breakeven reduction in the past quarters.

絕對不滿意目前的盈虧平衡點，我們在過去幾個季度一直在逐步推動盈虧平衡點的減少。

And so it came down, and we came down to -- at Q2 at around mid-80s and we're going to continue driving that, and to even better, and significantly better than that.

所以它下降了，我們下降到 - 在 80 年代中期左右的第二季度，我們將繼續推動它，甚至更好，並且比那更好。

So that will be our goal.

所以這將是我們的目標。

We are not satisfied with the mid-80s number.

我們對 80 年代中期的數字不滿意。

Okay.

好的。

This is blended with Xiamen operation.

這是與廈門業務相融合。

So the Xiamen situation was really a brand-new 28-inch centric new fabs running at pretty low monthly capacity.

因此，廈門的情況實際上是一個以相當低的月產能運行的全新 28 英寸中心新晶圓廠。

So if you take out the Xiamen impact, the UMC in Taiwan or UMC cover the Xiamen operation, the break-even point will be much, much lower.

因此，如果你去掉廈門的影響，台灣的聯電或聯電負責廈門的運營，盈虧平衡點將會低很多。

And the next one is from Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs.

下一個來自高盛的 Bruce Lu。

So my question is that since management changed the operation and business strategy, for the past 4, 6 quarter, we do not really see the R&D expenses coming down.

所以我的問題是，由於管理層改變了運營和業務戰略，在過去的第 4、6 個季度，我們並沒有真正看到研發費用下降。

So basically, we were having some expectations, but obviously management definitely want to keep certain R&D expenses.

所以基本上，我們有一些期望，但顯然管理層肯定希望保留一定的研發費用。

So when can we expect to see these R&D expenses to contribute in terms of top line or the profitability?

那麼我們什麼時候可以期望看到這些研發費用對收入或盈利能力做出貢獻？

Well, I mean, our strategy is to focus on the technology.

好吧，我的意思是，我們的戰略是專注於技術。

R&D standpoint, our strategy is to focus on the 40-nanometer and larger geometry technology as we stated when we started late 2017.

從研發的角度來看，我們的戰略是專注於 40 納米和更大的幾何技術，正如我們在 2017 年底開始時所說的那樣。

And within those larger technology, we want to become additive in relevance into a specialty area, so that means we will continue to invest in the R&D.

在這些更大的技術中，我們希望在相關專業領域中有所增加，這意味著我們將繼續投資於研發。

The major focus on spending is the disciplined CapEx spending.

支出的主要重點是有紀律的資本支出。

So we have a dramatic reduce in our CapEx spending, and while we continue to focus on the R&D spending, so we're going to make sure that we have a strategy trend that is sustainable and competitive going into next phase.

因此，我們的資本支出大幅減少，同時我們繼續專注於研發支出，因此我們將確保我們有一個可持續且具有競爭力的戰略趨勢進入下一階段。

So that's why you haven't see really us emphasize on the cost reduction on the R&D spend yet.

所以這就是為什麼你還沒有真正看到我們強調降低研發支出的成本。

But once we are more -- once we start covering more diversified specialty technology, we will continue revisit that spending area.

但是一旦我們更多 - 一旦我們開始涵蓋更多樣化的專業技術，我們將繼續重新審視該支出領域。

And -- but at this point, it will remain our R&D spending level, yes.

而且 - 但在這一點上，它仍將保持我們的研發支出水平，是的。

What is the main expense for R&D?

研發的主要費用是多少？

I mean within the R&D expense, how much is for the R&D staff?

我的意思是在研發費用中，研發人員有多少？

How much is for equipment or what's the breakdown?

設備多少錢或故障是什麼？

It's changing every quarter.

每個季度都在變化。

Of course, you can imagine the percentage of equipment-related depreciation, for example, will continue to decline quarter-over-quarter.

當然，你可以想像與設備相關的折舊百分比，例如，將繼續環比下降。

But specialty related project, according to our President, is likely to continue.

但據我們的總裁稱，與專業相關的項目可能會繼續。

At the same time, we are still working on this 32-nanometer technology development.

同時，我們還在做這個32納米的技術開發。

So for the time being...

所以暫時...

Can you give us some -- what kind of depreciation as a percentage of R&D in 2018?

你能給我們一些——2018 年折舊佔研發的百分比是多少？

In 2018, R&D depreciation, I would say, around 20%, 25%.

在 2018 年，研發折舊，我會說，大約 20%、25%。

So the bug is still the salary for the R&D staff?

那麼BUG還是研發人員的工資？

Yes.

是的。

I see.

我懂了。

Okay.

好的。

So my next question is more for Chitung.

所以我的下一個問題更多是關於 Chitung 的。

So assuming that we got like what Jason said, in place, what kind of [impact in terms of] depreciation or CapEx for our numbers?

因此，假設我們像傑森所說的那樣，對我們的數字有什麼樣的[影響] 折舊或資本支出？

It won't add up too much, it's less than 40,000 wafers per month set and it's fully equipped by our view and that's the reason we want to purchase this fab, so it's unlikely to spend a lot of money for new CapEx and the result of the purchasing price is around USD 600 million, and UMC already own 15%, so it's not going to increase our depreciation too much.

它不會加起來太多，每月不到 40,000 片晶圓，而且我們認為它配備齊全，這就是我們要購買這個晶圓廠的原因，因此不太可能花很多錢用於新的資本支出和結果收購價大約是6億美元，而聯電已經擁有15%的股份，所以不會讓我們的折舊增加太多。

So speaking of that, our depreciation expenses in 2019 is likely to decline by a little bit more than 5% compared to 2018.

所以說到這一點，我們 2019 年的折舊費用可能會比 2018 年下降 5% 以上。

How about 2020?

2020年呢？

I think the trend will go down -- will trend down, and I think the magnitude of decline could be even bigger in 2021.

我認為趨勢會下降——會下降，我認為 2021 年下降幅度可能更大。

So I don't really have detailed numbers, but the trend is likely to trend down by few percentage point per annum.

所以我真的沒有詳細的數字，但趨勢很可能每年下降幾個百分點。

(Operator Instructions) And the next question is coming Aaron Jeng of Nomura Securities.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自野村證券的 Aaron Jeng。

Just out of curiosity, in the last 2 quarters, you reported not so good 12-inch fab UTR, but your 8-inch wafer fab UTR was almost fully loaded particularly 4Q last year, and I think, in 1Q, it was also nearly full.

出於好奇，在過去的兩個季度中，您報告的 12 英寸晶圓廠 UTR 不太好，但您的 8 英寸晶圓廠 UTR 幾乎滿載，特別是去年第四季度，我認為在第一季度，它也接近滿載滿的。

But into second quarter, you start seeing 12-inch fab orders improved, but on the other hand your 8-inch fab UTR comes down sharply to mid-80% from like nearly full last quarter.

但進入第二季度，您開始看到 12 英寸晶圓廠訂單有所改善，但另一方面，您的 8 英寸晶圓廠 UTR 從上個季度幾乎滿載的狀態急劇下降至 80% 左右。

So I just wonder where the discrepancy comes from?

所以我只是想知道差異來自哪裡？

Whether it's just like an effect?

是否只是一個效果？

Or is there any structural issue from the observation on this 12-inch and 8-inch direction difference?

還是觀察這個12寸和8寸的方向差異有什麼結構性問題？

The decline in the 8-inch business is mainly due to, as I mentioned earlier, the -- with the inventory correction continue in the consumer automotive segment.

正如我之前提到的，8 英寸業務的下滑主要是由於——消費汽車領域的庫存調整仍在繼續。

And the second to that is the -- we have lower demand within the regional market on our selected growth applications.

其次是——我們在區域市場對我們選定的增長應用程序的需求較低。

In the past, we continue to improve our product mix, but unfortunately on those growth applications that we selected are showing some of the weaker demand in 2019.

過去，我們繼續改善我們的產品組合，但不幸的是，我們選擇的那些增長應用在 2019 年顯示出一些疲軟的需求。

And along with the inventory correction and we're experiencing some decline in the second quarter '19.

隨著庫存調整，我們在 19 年第二季度經歷了一些下滑。

We don't think that any fundamental changes and we remain positive for our long-term 8-inch business outlook.

我們認為沒有任何根本性的變化，我們對 8 英寸的長期業務前景保持樂觀。

And since we are penetrating into the area that we selected within our addressable market, and once those segment recovered, we think we will benefit from that.

由於我們正在滲透到我們在目標市場中選擇的領域，一旦這些細分市場恢復，我們認為我們將從中受益。

So that's on the 8-inch side.

所以這是在 8 英寸的一側。

The 12-inch, it's the -- while we also diversified ourselves to a specialty market segment, we start seeing some of the recovery as well on the mobile space.

12 英寸是——雖然我們也將自己多元化到專業細分市場，但我們開始看到移動領域也出現了一些復甦。

And we mentioned about display, we mentioned the RF and we'll continue seeing that.

我們提到了顯示，我們提到了 RF，我們將繼續看到它。

And so that helps -- that helped with our -- the 12-inch loading situation.

所以這有助於 - 這有助於我們 - 12 英寸的裝載情況。

And meanwhile, the lighter loaded node like 28, and given the technology of a 28 High-K is getting a maturity in the market, the 22 now finally released, and we start seeing some of the positives on that as well.

與此同時，像 28 這樣的負載較輕的節點，鑑於 28 High-K 的技術在市場上日趨成熟，22 現在終於發布了，我們也開始看到一些積極的方面。

The result of our 28-nanometer table activity, we see numbers on table increase year-over-year.

我們 28 納米表活動的結果，我們看到表上的數字逐年增加。

So that's why we also certainly hope that those table will reflect in volume run in the later time.

所以這就是為什麼我們當然也希望這些表能夠反映在以後的運行量中。

So we also remain positive with our 12-inch loading situation going forward.

因此，我們對未來 12 英寸的裝載情況也保持樂觀。

Just a quick follow-up.

只是快速跟進。

You said at 8-inch, a few growth segments that you identified are slower this year.

你說在 8 英寸時，你確定的一些增長部分今年會放緩。

Could you remind us which are those growth segments that you defined at 8-inch?

您能否提醒我們您定義的 8 英寸增長細分市場是哪些？

For example, the MCU space and PMIC area, those area are showing a much weaker demand in 2019.

例如，MCU 空間和 PMIC 領域，這些領域在 2019 年表現出明顯疲軟的需求。

Those are what we have selected in the last year.

這些是我們去年選擇的。

The automotive is also a segment that we have selected and obviously, automotive we see a very slow recovery following inventory correction at this point.

汽車也是我們選擇的一個細分市場，顯然，我們看到汽車在此時庫存調整後復蘇非常緩慢。

So those are the areas that we have selected.

所以這些是我們選擇的領域。

Okay.

好的。

And for this area, are you seeing -- actually, earlier you mentioned, but I'm not sure whether the trend into the second half on 8-inch will be coming from these growth segments.

對於這個領域，你看到了嗎——實際上，你之前提到過，但我不確定下半年 8 英寸的趨勢是否會來自這些增長領域。

So when you said in the second half, you are going to see the recovery at 8-inch, is it going to be driven by these few growth segment or still by more unlike mobile segment?

所以當你說在下半年，你將看到 8 英寸的複蘇時，它是由這幾個增長部分驅動的，還是由更多不同的移動部分驅動的？

Still on the mobile segment right now.

目前仍在移動領域。

We said the consumer automotive segment will probably last a little bit longer.

我們說消費汽車領域可能會持續更長的時間。

At this point, it's probably not a Q2 '19, and probably will be beyond that.

在這一點上，它可能不是 19 年第二季度，而且可能會超出這個範圍。

The rebound is coming more from the below space, yes.

反彈更多來自下方空間，是的。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

And I have some more follow-up.

我還有一些後續行動。

Consumer has remained wide at occasion, so when you say consumer could you possibly specify, which occasions behind like TV or [set-top box] or something else, like goods or...

消費者在某些場合仍然很廣泛，所以當你說消費者時，你可以指定哪些場合像電視或 [機頂盒] 或其他東西，如商品或......

I don't want to get into too specific.

我不想太具體。

It may be related to the customer specific, so -- but if I look at the Q2, the -- in a consumer space the TV set-top box and smartcard are the stronger area.

這可能與特定客戶有關，所以 - 但如果我看一下第二季度， - 在消費領域，電視機頂盒和智能卡是更強大的領域。

And others, there are some areas that are weaker than that, yes.

而其他的，有一些領域比那更弱，是的。

(Operator Instructions) And the next question is coming from Charlie Chan from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan。

So first of all, your HeJian IPO, you've said end of it really get listed, do you need to carve out the China operation from accounting perspective?

所以首先，你的和艦IPO，你說到最後真的上市了，你需要從會計角度剝離中國業務嗎？

No.

不。

It's fully consolidated right now, and it will continue to be a fully consolidated entity regardless it's listed or not.

它現在已經完全合併，而且無論是否上市，它都將繼續是一個完全合併的實體。

UMC will continue to hold at least 87% of the listing entity.

聯電將繼續持有上市實體至少87%的股份。

Okay.

好的。

And would you explain [any gain] or expense from the Easter IPO?

你能解釋復活節首次公開募股的[任何收益]或費用嗎？

We are not selling all shares.

我們不會出售所有股票。

So they will raise new money, new capital.

所以他們會籌集新的資金，新的資本。

Our holding will be diluted, as I mentioned.

正如我提到的，我們的持股將被稀釋。

That's the trend, but the UMC, for the first listing, if it got approved, will not receive the money, capital.

大勢如此，但聯電第一次上市，如果通過了，是拿不到錢、本金的。

Okay.

好的。

And other question is regarding your second quarter guidance.

另一個問題是關於你的第二季度指導。

So you seem to imply like a mid-80% utilization is operating at break-even point, so does that mean the second quarter OP margin is about breakeven, you said that right calculation?

所以你似乎暗示 80% 的利用率處於盈虧平衡點，那麼這是否意味著第二季度 OP 利潤率接近盈虧平衡，你說的是正確的計算嗎？

No, it should be slightly better than breakeven.

不，它應該比收支平衡稍微好一些。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

And also, yes, maybe this question is to Jason.

而且，是的，也許這個問題是給傑森的。

About your comments regarding the main improvement in computing segment.

關於您對計算領域主要改進的評論。

I know it's not easy to be very specific, but can you give us an example, what do you mean by computing because from what I can really think of it should be graphic, maybe PC, networking chip or -- yes, anything you see a improvement in computing?

我知道要說得非常具體並不容易，但你能給我們舉個例子嗎，你所說的計算是什麼意思，因為據我所知，它應該是圖形，也許是 PC、網絡芯片，或者——是的，你看到的任何東西計算的改進？

The -- what I mentioned is the mobile communication that is recovering.

我提到的是正在恢復的移動通信。

For the computer segment, we see it remained flat.

對於計算機部分，我們看到它保持平穩。

The computer is actually flat, while the mobile computer actually rebounds as strongest, yes.

電腦實際上是平的，而移動電腦實際上反彈最強，是的。

Okay.

好的。

And lastly, on your gross margin trend.

最後，關於您的毛利率趨勢。

I know the company want to kind of lower your breakeven points, but what do you think about the price competition?

我知道公司想降低你的盈虧平衡點，但你如何看待價格競爭？

It seems like industry is consolidating, but China peers continue to expand the capacity.

看起來行業正在整合，但中國同行繼續擴大產能。

So over the past 6 months and the coming 6 months, what do you think about the competition environment?

那麼過去 6 個月和未來 6 個月，您如何看待競爭環境？

And also it will be much appreciated if you can talk about your negotiation with those raw wafer vendors because last quarter, you seem to have mentioned you want to renegotiate.

如果你能談談你與那些原始晶圓供應商的談判，我們將不勝感激，因為上個季度，你似乎提到你想重新談判。

So we are wondering about the outcome of this negotiation?

所以我們想知道這次談判的結果？

Yes, sure.

是的，當然。

Well, the pricing -- the market prices -- competition is always intense.

好吧，定價——市場價格——競爭總是很激烈。

So the goal is for us to stay competitive and one direction is the -- from our breakeven point, we want to continue trend down from a cost side.

因此，我們的目標是保持競爭力，一個方向是——從我們的盈虧平衡點來看，我們希望從成本方面繼續下降。

And on the other side, from an ASP management, by developing -- continued developing of solutions across the multiple technology nodes and address the specialty.

另一方面，從 ASP 管理，通過開發——繼續開發跨多個技術節點的解決方案並解決專業問題。

And then, we believe with those specialty technology solution to our customers will improve our product mix.

然後，我們相信通過為我們的客戶提供這些專業技術解決方案將改善我們的產品組合。

And then not only helping us with the overall loading the utilization rate as well as our pricing position, so we have to try both.

然後不僅幫助我們整體加載利用率以及我們的定價位置，所以我們必須嘗試兩者。

They both cost side as well as the product mix improvement side.

它們既有成本方面的，也有產品組合改進方面的。

And the -- just stay competitive.

而且 - 只是保持競爭力。

As far as the raw material, the negotiations and although we already have a long-term contract agreement with the raw wafer supplier, we always continue negotiation with the supplier to achieve a better cost saving, so that, it just had to be a ongoing activity.

至於原材料、談判，雖然我們已經與晶圓原料供應商簽訂了長期合同協議，但我們始終會繼續與供應商談判，以實現更好的成本節約，因此，它必須是一個持續的過程活動。

So first of all, you said that contract price for this year can be lowered.

那麼首先你說今年的合同價可以下調。

This is first follow-up.

這是第一次跟進。

And second follow-up, not being -- not trying to be cynical, right, but you mentioned about improving the product mix, but I guess, your foundry peers all want to do the same strategy, right?

第二個跟進，不是 - 不是想憤世嫉俗，對吧，但你提到了改進產品組合，但我想，你的鑄造同行都想做同樣的策略，對吧？

So how can you do better than your internal peers by this kind of product mix improvement strategy?

那麼，通過這種產品組合改進策略，您如何才能比內部同行做得更好呢？

So can you answer these 2 follow-ups?

那麼你能回答這兩個後續問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Stay competitive means in the foundry space, it has to come from the fundamental technology solution readiness, right?

保持競爭力意味著在代工領域，它必須來自基礎技術解決方案的準備，對嗎？

So while we continue to invest in R&D and we believe, we have -- we will demonstrate some advantage in that space, and so that will help, okay.

因此，雖然我們繼續投資於研發並且我們相信，我們已經 - 我們將在該領域展示一些優勢，所以這會有所幫助，好吧。

And from the wafer -- from the raw material, we see a sensible improvement right now and despite that we only have a long-term contract in place, but on that front it's -- we just have to continue doing that, yes.

從晶圓——從原材料來看，我們現在看到了明顯的改善，儘管我們只有一份長期合同，但在這方面——我們必須繼續這樣做，是的。

The next question is coming from Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的Bruce Lu。

Okay.

好的。

The question is for 28-nanometer, which I believe is the biggest earning track for UMC and I was so impressed to see management stating that you have a decent recovery for design win status for 28.

問題是關於 28 納米的，我認為這是 UMC 最大的盈利渠道，看到管理層表示你們在 28 納米的設計勝利狀態上有了不錯的恢復，我印象深刻。

Can you tell us a bit more in terms of what kind of occasion for your new design win in 28?

你能告訴我們更多關於你的新設計在 28 中獲勝的場合嗎？

And when can we expect 28-nanometer simulation that can be recovered to industry level or the gross margin for 28-nanometer can be achieved to that (inaudible)

我們什麼時候可以期待 28 納米模擬可以恢復到行業水平或 28 納米的毛利率可以達到那個水平（聽不清）

Well, for the 28-nanometer applications mainly coming off second wave application, WiFi, digital TV, set-top box, and -- but not only on the logic, it also in a specialty technology like high-voltage areas, so -- and we stock it into those space aggressively, and we hope that we will see some through after both products are ramping, yes.

好吧，對於 28 納米應用，主要來自第二波應用、WiFi、數字電視、機頂盒，而且——不僅在邏輯上，它還涉及高壓領域等專業技術，所以——我們積極地將它存入這些空間，我們希望在這兩種產品都在增加之後我們能看到一些，是的。

Can you give the time line in terms of the recovery?

你能給出恢復的時間表嗎？

Again?

再次？

Can you give us some time line in terms of the recovery?

你能給我們一些恢復方面的時間表嗎？

Well, I mean, if we break it down by the 28 and as well as the 22, for the 28 -- currently, the 22 we're probably expecting the first product phasing out second half '19.

好吧，我的意思是，如果我們將它分解為 28 和 22，對於 28 - 目前，我們可能預計第一個產品將在 19 年下半年淘汰。

So the volume production will be in sometime in 2020 and for the current 28, we will see a quarter-over-quarter growth at least till second quarter of '18 -- 2019, right.

因此，批量生產將在 2020 年的某個時候進行，對於目前的 28 個，我們將看到環比增長至少到 18 年第二季度 - 2019 年，對吧。

So when can we expect 28 profitability will reach the corporate average?

那麼我們什麼時候可以期待28家公司的盈利能力達到企業平均水平呢？

Well, we don't know the corporate average for a few quarters from now, but in terms of capacity utilization rate, as Jason mentioned, it is more possible to predict, so we do expect the corporate average utilization rate for 28 can be achieved sometime in 2020.

好吧，我們不知道未來幾個季度的企業平均利用率，但是在產能利用率方面，正如Jason提到的那樣，更有可能預測，所以我們確實預計28的企業平均利用率可以達到2020年的某個時候。

The next one is from Albert Hung of JP Morgan.

下一位來自摩根大通的Albert Hung。

I'm asking question on Gokul's behalf.

我代表 Gokul 問問題。

My first question is what's our full year growth expectation for semi industry and UMC?

我的第一個問題是我們對半工業和聯電的全年增長預期是多少？

2019 or...

2019年或...

Yes, 2019.

是的，2019 年。

Yes, all right.

嗯，好。

Well, I mean, the -- well, from a industry standpoint, I think the market is flat.

好吧，我的意思是，從行業的角度來看，我認為市場是平的。

But from the focusing on our addressable market and technology, which is now 7-nanometers.

但是從關注我們的目標市場和技術開始，現在是 7 納米。

While we'll continue to improve our business in second quarter and we believe, the -- we will be likely to stay in line with the industry, yes.

雖然我們將在第二季度繼續改善我們的業務，但我們相信，我們很可能會與行業保持一致，是的。

Understood.

明白了。

And my second question is about the depreciation trend, late year and next year.

我的第二個問題是關於去年年底和明年的貶值趨勢。

And when will 28-nanometer depreciation start to come down meaningfully?

28 納米的貶值何時開始有意義地下降？

The whole UMC depreciation curve is trending down starting from 1 year or 2 ago.

整個聯電折舊曲線從1年前或2年前開始呈下降趨勢。

And 2019 overall depreciation will be down by a little bit more than 5% compared to 2018, and the trend will continue in '19 -- 2020 and 2021.

而2019年整體折舊率較2018年下降5%多一點，19年——2020年和2021年將延續這一趨勢。

I think the decline mainly due could be bigger in 2021 versus '20.

我認為主要是由於 2021 年的下降幅度可能比 20 年更大。

I think that's the more notable decline in depreciation for the recent years.

我認為這是近年來折舊率下降幅度更大的地方。

Any color on 28-nanometer depreciation?

28納米折舊有什麼顏色嗎？

Well, that's mainly 28 related as our depreciation year is 6 years and we had major spending about 3, 4 years ago.

好吧，這主要與 28 相關，因為我們的折舊年是 6 年，而且我們在大約 3、4 年前有大量支出。

So a bulk of 28 will be finished depreciation in 2021.

所以大部分28將在2021年完成折舊。

Understood.

明白了。

And my last question is on, did you see any benefit from exits of your competitors, especially like Global Foundries selling fabs?

我的最後一個問題是，您是否看到了競爭對手退出的任何好處，尤其是 Global Foundries 出售晶圓廠？

We cannot comment on our competitors and we have a very clear corporate strategy by focusing on non-7-nanometer market and also diversifying to specialties technologies.

我們不能對我們的競爭對手發表評論，我們有一個非常明確的公司戰略，專注於非 7 納米市場，並向專業技術領域多元化。

And we think we have strong resources and also talent to execute our strategy.

我們認為我們擁有強大的資源和人才來執行我們的戰略。

So we saw without our competitor where we will not be impacted in terms of executing our current strategy.

因此，我們看到沒有競爭對手，我們在執行當前戰略方面不會受到影響。

The next question is coming from Sebastian Hou from CLSA.

下一個問題來自 CLSA 的 Sebastian Hou。

My first question is on the 8-inch wafer price -- foundry wafer price.

我的第一個問題是關於8英寸晶圓價格——代工晶圓價格。

Given that the utilization rate is no longer 100%, and also some tailwind on the raw material side.

鑑於利用率不再是 100%，而且原材料方面也有一些順風。

Do you expect the more pricing pressure this year on the 8-inch foundry pricing?

您預計今年8英寸晶圓代工定價壓力會更大嗎？

Yes, I think so.

是的，我想是這樣。

Yes, I think so.

是的，我想是這樣。

The -- well, when the market's -- the demand's weaker and obviously, putting some pricing pressure to it.

- 好吧，當市場 - 需求疲軟時，顯然會給它帶來一些定價壓力。

So we're definitely seeing that.

所以我們肯定會看到這一點。

But I think in the longer-term, I mean, the 8-inch, the outlook still remain positive.

但我認為從長遠來看，我的意思是，8 英寸的前景仍然樂觀。

So I think this is more of a 2019 situation and after that we'll just have to continue improve our product mix and continue migrating our technologies.

所以我認為這更像是 2019 年的情況，在那之後我們將不得不繼續改進我們的產品組合併繼續遷移我們的技術。

And so -- but for 2019, I do see that as a challenge, yes.

所以——但對於 2019 年，我確實認為這是一個挑戰，是的。

Okay.

好的。

And regarding the -- second question is regarding the second half recovery particularly on the 8-inch side, what would be the major applications that you project right now that could drive that rebound?

關於 - 第二個問題是關於下半年的複蘇，特別是在 8 英寸方面，您現在預計可以推動反彈的主要應用是什麼？

Well, I mean, the -- at this point, it's mainly in the mobile communication space.

嗯，我的意思是，在這一點上，它主要是在移動通信領域。

While we're still seeing the automotive will probably have a later recovery maybe towards -- hopefully towards the end of the '19.

雖然我們仍然看到汽車可能會在晚些時候復甦——希望是在 19 年底。

But right now, I think the more obvious one is the mobile communication area.

但現在，我認為更明顯的是移動通信領域。

Okay.

好的。

So the mobile is doing well in the second quarter and now, you expect that these trends will likely continue into second half?

所以移動在第二季度表現良好，現在，您預計這些趨勢可能會持續到下半年嗎？

Yes, we do.

是的，我們有。

And...

和...

Okay.

好的。

And as for the inventory problem that you see in consumer in auto, probably not rebound so strongly second half, but perhaps toward the end of this year?

至於你在汽車消費中看到的庫存問題，下半年可能不會強勁反彈，但可能會在今年年底反彈？

Right.

正確的。

I think the -- in our view, the auto is probably the weaker, weakest.

我認為 - 在我們看來，汽車可能是最弱的，最弱的。

It's weaker than the consumer.

它比消費者弱。

We hope consumer will probably rebound earlier than auto, yes.

我們希望消費可能會比汽車更早反彈，是的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Got it.

知道了。

And is it -- sorry, if we take all these factors into consideration, with the rebound trend likely to get the 8-inch UTR back to close to fully utilized, as we have seen in past few quarters?

抱歉，如果我們考慮所有這些因素，反彈趨勢可能會使 8 英寸 UTR 回到接近充分利用的狀態，就像我們在過去幾個季度看到的那樣？

Well, we will see gradually improve, and we still kind of far to give you an actual projection, but we think that Q2 is the bottom, yes.

好吧，我們會看到逐漸改善，我們仍然有點遠不能給你一個實際的預測，但我們認為第二季度是底部，是的。

Ladies and gentlemen, we are running out of time so we're taking the last question.

女士們，先生們，我們的時間不多了，所以我們來回答最後一個問題。

And the last one is coming from (inaudible) of UBS.

最後一個來自瑞銀（聽不清）。

What is the approximate raw wafer cost for you now?

您現在的原始晶圓成本大概是多少？

And are you concerned with the current inventory level of raw wafers?

您是否關注目前晶圓原片的庫存水平？

And also is it likely to see raw wafer price trend lower this year?

以及今年晶圓價格是否有走低的趨勢？

That's my first question.

這是我的第一個問題。

It varies, it depends on 8-inch or 12-inch or any specialty wafer recipe we use.

它各不相同，取決於 8 英寸或 12 英寸或我們使用的任何特種威化餅配方。

So normally with depreciation as a bulk for high leading-edge node, percentage of raw wafer will tend to be smaller.

因此，通常隨著高前沿節點的大量折舊，原始晶圓的百分比將趨於較小。

Or for 8-inch, the depreciation component is very small.

或者對於8寸來說，折舊成分很小。

So the percentage of raw wafer will be more important.

所以生晶圓的比例會更加重要。

So it really depends.

所以這真的取決於。

But we are not concerned about the supplier of raw wafers, as we have secured good, steady long-term supply.

但我們並不擔心晶圓的供應商，因為我們已經確保了良好、穩定的長期供應。

And previously, there is another analyst asking about the pricing.

之前，還有另一位分析師詢問定價。

I guess, that's the key variables.

我想，這是關鍵變量。

So supply shouldn't be an issue, but we will continue to work on getting better deals out of the wafer suppliers.

所以供應應該不是問題，但我們將繼續努力從晶圓供應商那裡獲得更好的交易。

So which means you will continue to renegotiate with them on the future raw wafer prices?

那麼這意味著您將繼續與他們就未來的晶圓價格進行重新談判？

Yes.

是的。

We are continuing doing that.

我們正在繼續這樣做。

While 1 year ago, we're still struggling with securing supply assurance on the raw wafer -- or raw material, and the pricing wasn't much of a room for negotiation.

一年前，我們仍在努力確保原始晶圓或原材料的供應保證，而且定價沒有太大的談判空間。

And now once we secured the long-term contract and our focus for the raw material now is at a pricing negotiation, yes, and we continue doing that.

現在，一旦我們獲得了長期合同，我們對原材料的關注就集中在價格談判上，是的，我們會繼續這樣做。

Understood.

明白了。

And also, Jason, I think you mentioned a little bit about the full year outlook, but it wasn't very clear.

而且，Jason，我想你提到了一些關於全年展望的內容，但還不是很清楚。

Could you give us a better view on the full year outlook percentage.

您能否讓我們更好地了解全年展望百分比。

Well, I mean my previous answer was saying, focus on all addressable market technology.

好吧，我的意思是我之前的回答是，關注所有可尋址的市場技術。

We will stay in line with the industry in terms of whole year outlook.

我們將在全年展望方面與行業保持一致。

And right now there is a different way to look at it with the space that we now address and or exclude out, but our focus is in a space that we can serve and in that space we will be in line with the industry.

現在有一種不同的方式來看待我們現在處理和/或排除的空間，但我們的重點是我們可以服務的空間，在這個空間我們將與行業保持一致。

We thank you for all your questions.

我們感謝您提出的所有問題。

That concludes today's Q&A session.

今天的問答環節到此結束。

I will turn things over to UMC Head of IR for closing remarks.

我將把事情交給 UMC 的 IR 負責人作結束語。

Thank you for attending this conference today.

感謝您參加今天的會議。

We appreciate your questions.

感謝您提出問題。

As always, if you have any additional follow-up questions, please feel free to contact UMC at ir.umc.com.

與往常一樣，如果您有任何其他後續問題，請隨時通過 ir.umc.com 聯繫 UMC。

Have a good day.

祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our conference for first quarter 2019.

女士們，先生們，我們 2019 年第一季度的會議到此結束。

Thank you for your participation in UMC's conference.

感謝您參加 UMC 的會議。

There will be a webcast replay within an hour.

一個小時內將進行網絡廣播重播。

Please visit www.umc.com onto the Investors, Events section.

請訪問 www.umc.com 的投資者、活動部分。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連接。

Goodbye.

再見。