台積電 ADR (TSM) 2014 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to TSMC's First Quarter 2014 Earnings Conference and Conference Call.

歡迎參加台積電 2014 年第一季度財報電話會議。

This is Elizabeth Sun, TSMC's Director of Corporate Communications and your host for today.

我是台積電企業傳播總監 Elizabeth Sun，也是今天的主持人。

Today's event is webcast live at TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

今天的活動在台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 上進行網絡直播。

If you are joining us through the conference call, you're dialing lines are in listen-only mode.

如果您通過電話會議加入我們，您撥打的線路處於只聽模式。

As this conference is being viewed by investors around the world, we will conduct the event in English only.

由於世界各地的投資者都在觀看本次會議，因此我們將僅以英語進行活動。

The format for today's event will be as follows.

今天的活動形式如下。

First, TSMC's Senior Vice President and CFO, Ms. Lora Ho will summarize our operations in the first quarter 2014, followed by our guidance for the current quarter.

首先，台積電高級副總裁兼首席財務官Lora Ho女士將總結我們在2014年第一季度的運營情況，然後是我們對本季度的指導。

Afterward TSMC's two Co-CEOs; Dr. Mark Liu and Dr. C.C. Wei will jointly provide a couple of key messages.

之後是台積電的兩位聯席CEO； Mark Liu 博士和 C.C. 博士Wei 將共同提供幾個關鍵信息。

Then we'll open both the floor and the line for the Q&A.

然後我們將打開地板和線路進行問答。

For those participants on the call, if you do not yet have a copy of the press release, you may download it now from TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

對於電話會議的參與者，如果您還沒有新聞稿的副本，您現在可以從台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 下載。

Please also download the summary slides in relation to today's earnings conference presentation.

另請下載與今天的財報會議演示相關的摘要幻燈片。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statement.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含具有重大風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述，這可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中包含的結果存在重大差異。

Please refer to the Safe-Harbor notice that appears on our press release.

請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。

Now, I would like to turn the podium to TSMC's CFO, Ms. Lora Ho.

現在，我想把講台轉給台積電的首席財務官Lora Ho女士。

Thank you, Elizabeth.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。

Good afternoon everyone.

大家下午好。

Thank you for joining us today.

感謝您今天加入我們。

I will start my presentation with financial highlights for the first quarter and followed by the guidance of the second quarter.

我將以第一季度的財務亮點開始我的演講，然後是第二季度的指導。

You may have noted from the information we provided to you today, starting from this year, we have changed the wafer unit to 12-inch equivalent, as 12-inch accounts for the majority of our production capacity.

您可能已經從我們今天提供給您的信息中註意到，從今年開始，我們將晶圓單元更改為 12 英寸等效，因為 12 英寸占我們產能的大部分。

The first quarter came out better than expected.

第一季度的表現好於預期。

Our revenue, gross margin and operating margins were all exceeded the revised guidance.

我們的收入、毛利率和營業利潤率均超過了修訂後的指引。

In the first quarter, the demand for TSMC's wafer was much stronger than we've had initially predicted in mid-January.

第一季度，對台積電晶圓的需求比我們在 1 月中旬最初預測的要強勁得多。

The strength came from customers' better fourth quarter results, which led to a more positive outlook for the whole year, prompted through the active replenishment of inventory from a very low base in the fourth quarter last year.

實力來自客戶更好的第四季度業績，這導致全年前景更加樂觀，這得益於去年第四季度從非常低的基數開始積極補充庫存。

We were able to capture the bigger market share of customers' upside demand.

我們能夠在客戶的上行需求中獲得更大的市場份額。

Thanks to the better performance and the high yield and reliability for our advance technologies.

得益於我們先進技術的更好性能、高產量和可靠性。

First quarter revenue increased 1.7% on a sequential basis and 11.6% on year-over-year basis, to reach TWD148 billion.

第一季度收入環比增長 1.7%，同比增長 11.6%，達到 1480 億新台幣。

Gross margin was 47.5%, up 3 percentage points from the fourth quarter last year, mainly due to higher capacity utilization, a favorable foreign exchange rate, offset by unfavorable inventory variation adjustments.

毛利率為 47.5%，比去年第四季度上升 3 個百分點，主要是由於較高的產能利用率、有利的外匯匯率，被不利的庫存變動調整所抵消。

Operating margin was 35.4%, up 2.6 percentage points from the fourth quarter.

營業利潤率為35.4%，比第四季度上升2.6個百分點。

Non-op items was a small gain of TWD0.78 billion.

非經營項目小幅增長7.8億新台幣。

Overall, the first quarter EPS was TWD1.85 and ROE was 21.9% in the first quarter.

總體而言，第一季度EPS為TWD1.85，第一季度ROE為21.9%。

Let's take a look at the revenue by application.

讓我們看一下應用程序的收入。

If you recall, the fourth quarter inventory correction was mostly serious in the communication-related applications.

回想一下，第四季度的庫存調整主要是在通信相關的應用程序中。

When customer demand came back in the first quarter, communication shows the strongest increase.

當第一季度客戶需求回升時，溝通顯示出最強勁的增長。

Compared to the fourth quarter last year, communication increased 8%, computer increased 2%, and industrial-related revenue increased 2%, while consumer declined 14% during the first quarter.

與去年第四季度相比，通信增長了 8%，計算機增長了 2%，工業相關收入增長了 2%，而第一季度消費者下降了 14%。

By technology, 28-nanometer revenue continued to grow and account for 34% of our total wafer revenue in the first quarter.

從技術上看，28 納米收入持續增長，佔第一季度晶圓總收入的 34%。

40-nanometer has a nice rebound, now represents 21% of our total wafer revenue.

40 納米有很好的反彈，現在占我們晶圓總收入的 21%。

The two advanced technologies, 28-nanometer plus 45-nanometer, represented 55% of our first quarter total wafer revenue, increased from 51% a quarter ago.

28 納米和 45 納米這兩種先進技術占我們第一季度晶圓總收入的 55%，高於上一季度的 51%。

Now let's move onto the balance sheet.

現在讓我們進入資產負債表。

Cash and marketable securities decreased TWD10 billion sequentially to TWD235 billion at the end of first quarter.

現金和有價證券在第一季度末環比減少 100 億新台幣至 2,350 億新台幣。

Current liabilities decreased by TWD15 billion, mainly because of the decrease in accounts payable to equipment suppliers.

流動負債減少新台幣150億元，主要是應付設備供應商賬款減少所致。

Meanwhile we borrowed TWD9 billion in short-term loans for hedging purposes.

同時，我們藉入新台幣 90 億元的短期貸款作對沖。

Accounts receivable turnover days decreased three days to 45 days.

應收賬款周轉天數減少三天至 45 天。

Days of inventory increased to 52 days, reflecting the strong demand in the second quarter and the starting of a 20-nanometer ramp.

庫存天數增加到 52 天，反映了第二季度的強勁需求和 20 納米斜坡的開始。

Now let me make a few comments on cash flow and CapEx.

現在讓我對現金流和資本支出發表一些評論。

During the first quarter, we generated TWD95 billion cash from operations, invested TWD115 billion in capital expenditures, and borrowed TWD9 billion short-term loans.

第一季度，我們從運營中產生了950億新台幣的現金，1150億新台幣的資本支出投入，90億新台幣的短期貸款。

At the end of the first quarter, our cash balance decreased TWD11 billion to TWD232 billion.

在第一季度末，我們的現金餘額減少了 110 億新台幣至 2320 億新台幣。

Free cash flow for the first quarter was an outflow of TWD20 billion due to higher capital expenditure in the first quarter.

由於第一季度資本支出增加，第一季度的自由現金流流出了 200 億新台幣。

Our CapEx and capacity; first quarter CapEx was $3.8 billion.

我們的資本支出和產能；第一季度資本支出為 38 億美元。

We expect 2014 CapEx will be about $10 billion, with front-end loaded pattern.

我們預計 2014 年資本支出約為 100 億美元，採用前端加載模式。

About 70% of the budget will be spent in the first half to support the quick ramping of 20-nanometer.

上半年大約 70% 的預算將用於支持 20 納米的快速發展。

On a full-year basis, we plan to increase our capacity by 10% from 2013.

在全年的基礎上，我們計劃從 2013 年起將產能增加 10%。

So the total annual capacity will reach 8 million 12-inch equivalent wafers.

因此年總產能將達到800萬片12英寸等效晶圓。

So I have finished my report on the financial part.

至此，我完成了財務部分的報告。

Now let me turn into the second quarter outlook.

現在讓我談談第二季度的展望。

Based on our current business outlook and a forecast exchange rate of TWD30.10, we expect our second quarter revenue to be between TWD180 billion and TWD183 billion.

根據我們目前的業務前景和 30.10 新台幣的預測匯率，我們預計我們第二季度的收入將在 1800 億新台幣和 1830 億新台幣之間。

This would translate into around 22% quarter-over-quarter increase.

這將轉化為約 22% 的季度環比增長。

On the margin side, we expect the second quarter gross margins to be between 47.5% and 49.5%, and operating margins to be between 36.5% and 38.5%.

在利潤率方面，我們預計第二季度毛利率在 47.5% 到 49.5% 之間，營業利潤率在 36.5% 到 38.5% 之間。

At a January Investor Conference I talked about the tax rate for the year will be about 13% and the second quarter will carry more burdens.

在 1 月份的投資者會議上，我談到今年的稅率將在 13% 左右，第二季度將承擔更多的負擔。

Let me give you an update this time.

這次讓我給你一個更新。

According to the accounting principle, when shareholder approves the earnings distribution in June, we need to accrue the 10% retained earning tax for the undistributed earnings.

根據會計原則，當股東批准 6 月份的收益分配時，我們需要為未分配的收益計提 10%的留存收益稅。

Therefore our second quarter tax rate will go up to 21%, and then fall back to the normal level of around 11% in the third and fourth quarter.

因此，我們第二季度的稅率將上升到 21%，然後在第三季度和第四季度回落到 11% 左右的正常水平。

Full-year tax rate, however, will still be 13%.

然而，全年稅率仍為 13%。

This concludes my remarks.

我的發言到此結束。

Let me turn the podium to our Co-CEOs, Mark and C.C. for their comments.

讓我把講台轉給我們的聯合首席執行官 Mark 和 C.C.為他們的意見。

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

下午好，女士們，先生們。

Let me cover the first three items on the agenda.

讓我談談議程上的前三個項目。

Let me begin by saying our 2014 market outlook has improved since our mid January Investor Conference.

首先我要說的是，自 1 月中旬的投資者大會以來，我們的 2014 年市場前景有所改善。

The first quarter is typically a slow season for our customers and for TSMC.

對於我們的客戶和台積電來說，第一季度通常是淡季。

However, since mid January, we started to see strong orders across all segments.

然而，自 1 月中旬以來，我們開始看到所有細分市場的強勁訂單。

We now have an improved demand outlook from the following three perspectives.

我們現在從以下三個方面對需求前景有所改善。

First, the demand in smartphone appears healthier than we expected last quarter.

首先，智能手機的需求似乎比我們上個季度的預期更健康。

The acceleration of LTE infrastructure buildup, LTE smartphone proliferation and the increased silicon content of smartphones improved our demand outlook.

LTE 基礎設施建設的加速、LTE 智能手機的普及以及智能手機矽含量的增加改善了我們的需求前景。

The silicon content increase has come with multi-core 64-bit application processor, multimode baseband, multiband RF transceivers, image sensors, MEMS, near-field communications and finger prints; these all are included in the smartphone.

矽含量的增加伴隨著多核 64 位應用處理器、多模基帶、多頻帶射頻收發器、圖像傳感器、MEMS、近場通信和指紋；這些都包含在智能手機中。

The second, TSMC's 28-nanometer technology, performance and quality suffice to field more of those customers' demand.

其次，台積電的 28 納米技術、性能和質量足以滿足更多客戶的需求。

Fabless DOI was substantially below seasonal when we exited 4Q last year.

去年第四季度我們退出時，Fabless DOI 大大低於季節性。

So we still expect fabless DOI will be below seasonal in 1Q 2014.

因此，我們仍然預計 2014 年第一季度無晶圓廠 DOI 將低於季節性。

So, for second quarter of 2014, we expect our demand will continue to be strong and above seasonal in all major applications.

因此，對於 2014 年第二季度，我們預計所有主要應用的需求將繼續強勁且高於季節性。

Now I'll cover the market supply chain and demand of second half and full year for 2014.

現在我將介紹2014年下半年和全年的市場供應鍊和需求。

Since first quarter fabless DOI is below seasonal, the second quarter demand on us is unseasonably strong, but we expect fabless DOI will return to seasonal level at mid 2014.

由於第一季度無晶圓 DOI 低於季節性，第二季度對我們的需求異常強勁，但我們預計無晶圓 DOI 將在 2014 年年中恢復到季節性水平。

Therefore, our second half demand would be more normal.

所以我們下半年的需求會比較正常。

TSMC will gain 28-nanometer market share with 28-nanometer high-K metal gate transition in the second half of 2014.

台積電將在 2014 年下半年憑藉 28 納米高 K 金屬柵極過渡獲得 28 納米市場份額。

TSMC also expects to gain overall foundry market share in the second half 2014 when we ramp up 20 SoC in the second half 2014.

當我們在 2014 年下半年增加 20 個 SoC 時，台積電還預計將在 2014 年下半年獲得整體代工市場份額。

However, since our first quarter and second quarter will establish a higher base.

但是，由於我們一季度和二季度會建立一個更高的基數。

The quarter-to-quarter growth of third quarter and fourth quarter will be -- will both be positive, but will be more moderate than our second quarter.

第三季度和第四季度的季度環比增長都將是積極的，但將比我們的第二季度更為溫和。

For the full year of 2014, our outlook improved from last quarter as follows.

對於 2014 年全年，我們的展望較上一季度有所改善，具體如下。

Semiconductor revenue growth from 5% to 7%.

半導體收入增長從 5% 到 7%。

Fabless revenue growth from 8% to 9%.

無晶圓廠收入增長從 8% 到 9%。

Foundry revenue growth from 10% to 14%.

代工收入增長從 10% 到 14%。

So our growth for full year of 2014 will be higher than the forecasted foundry growth by several percentage points.

因此，我們 2014 年全年的增長將高於預測的代工增長幾個百分點。

Then I cover the updates on 16 FinFET, 16 FinFET plus and our 10 FinFET.

然後我將介紹 16 FinFET、16 FinFET plus 和我們的 10 FinFET 的更新。

First, we have two general offers for customers, 16 FinFET and 16 FinFET plus.

首先，我們為客戶提供兩種通用報價，16 FinFET 和 16 FinFET plus。

16 FinFET plus offers 15% speed improvement, the same total power, compared to 16 FinFET.

與 16 FinFET 相比，16 FinFET plus 的速度提高了 15%，總功率相同。

More importantly, 16 FinFET plus offers 30% total power reduction at the same speed, compared to 16 FinFET.

更重要的是，與 16 FinFET 相比，16 FinFET plus 在相同速度下可降低 30% 的總功率。

Our 16 FinFET plus matches the highest performance among all available 16-nanometer and 14-nanometer technologies in the market today.

我們的 16 FinFET plus 與當今市場上所有可用的 16 納米和 14 納米技術中的最高性能相匹配。

Compared to our own 20 SoC, 16 FinFET plus offers 40% speed improvement.

與我們自己的 20 SoC 相比，16 FinFET plus 提供了 40% 的速度提升。

The design rules of 16 FinFET and 16 FinFET plus are the same; IPs are compatible.

16 FinFET和16 FinFET plus的設計規則相同； IP是兼容的。

We will receive our first customer product tapeout this month.

我們將在本月收到我們的第一個客戶產品流片。

About 15 products planned for 2014, another about 45 in 2015.

2014 年計劃推出約 15 種產品，2015 年再推出約 45 種產品。

Volume production is planned in 2015.

計劃於 2015 年量產。

Since 95% tools of 16 and 20 are common, we will ramp them in the same gigafabs in TSMC.

由於 16 和 20 的 95% 工具是常見的，我們將在台積電的相同 gigafab 中增加它們。

16 FinFET yield learning curve is very steep today and has already caught up with 20 SoC.

如今，16 FinFET 良率學習曲線非常陡峭，已經趕上了 20 SoC。

This is a unique advantage in TSMC 16-nanometer.

這是台積電16納米的獨特優勢。

For 10 FinFET, 10 FinFET offer TSMC's third generation FinFET transistor, designed to meet the power and the performance requirement of mobile computing devices.

對於 10 FinFET，10 FinFET 提供台積電的第三代 FinFET 晶體管，旨在滿足移動計算設備的功率和性能要求。

10 FinFET will offer greater than 25% speed improvement, the same total power, compared to 16 FinFET plus.

與 16 FinFET plus 相比，10 FinFET 將提供超過 25% 的速度提升，總功率相同。

More importantly, 10 FinFET offer greater than 45% total power reduction at the same speed, compared to 16 FinFET plus.

更重要的是，與 16 FinFET plus 相比，10 FinFET 在相同速度下可將總功率降低 45% 以上。

10 FinFET will offer 2.2X of density improvement over its previous generation, 16 FinFET plus.

10 FinFET 的密度將比上一代 16 FinFET plus 提高 2.2 倍。

So, currently, 10 FinFET development progress is well on track, but risk production will be in 4Q 2015.

因此，目前 10 FinFET 的開發進展順利，但風險生產將在 2015 年第四季度進行。

Above are the key messages on three items.

以上是關於三個項目的關鍵信息。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Thank you, Mark.

謝謝你，馬克。

And following Mark, there will be two remarks made by C.C. Wei.

在馬克之後，C.C.將發表兩句話。魏。

Thank you, Elizabeth.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

下午好，女士們，先生們。

Following Mark's exciting forecast and our second quarter and second half of year 2014, I would like to take this opportunity to share with you the two topics with you; namely, the 20 SoC ramp and TSMC's advance assembly solution to our customer.

繼 Mark 激動人心的預測以及我們 2014 年第二季度和下半年，我想藉此機會與您分享這兩個主題；即，20 SoC 斜坡和台積電為我們的客戶提供的先進組裝解決方案。

First, I will brief you on the status of 20 SoC ramp.

首先，我將向您介紹 20 SoC 斜坡的狀態。

Let me recap what we had said in the last meeting here.

讓我回顧一下我們在上次會議上所說的話。

We started 20 SoC production in January this year and by fourth quarter of this year, the 20 SoC will account for 20% of the quarterly revenue -- wafer revenue.

我們在今年 1 月開始生產 20 個 SoC，到今年第四季度，20 個 SoC 將佔季度收入的 20%——晶圓收入。

And for the whole year of 2014 we expect 20 SoC will be about 10% of our total wafer revenue of the year of 2014, of course.

當然，對於 2014 年全年，我們預計 20 個 SoC 將占我們 2014 年總晶圓收入的 10% 左右。

All these expectations remain the same today.

所有這些期望今天都保持不變。

Now, there are some major achievement I would like to share with you.

現在，我想與大家分享一些重大成就。

First, on the ramping speed.

首先，關於爬坡速度。

20 SoC by far is the fastest ramping in TSMC's history.

到目前為止，20 SoC 是台積電歷史上最快的爬坡。

Of course, this fast ramp is to meet customers' strong demand.

當然，這種快速的爬坡是為了滿足客戶的強烈需求。

And I believe this production of 20 SoC in TSMC represents one of the largest mobilization in semiconductor history.

而且我相信台積電生產 20 個 SoC 代表了半導體歷史上最大的動員之一。

Let me share with some numbers, so you can have a snapshot on this ramp.

讓我分享一些數字，這樣你就可以在這個坡道上拍一張快照。

In about one year's time we have built a manufacturing team of 4,600 engineers and 2,000 operators in two fabs; Fab 14 in Tainan and Fab 12 in Hsinchu.

在大約一年的時間裡，我們在兩個晶圓廠建立了由 4,600 名工程師和 2,000 名操作員組成的製造團隊；台南 Fab 14 和新竹 Fab 12。

More impressively, in the same time period, close to one thousand engineer has been relocated among TSMC's fabs in Hsinchu, Taichung and Tainan.

更令人印象深刻的是，在同一時期，近千名工程師已在台積電新竹、台中和台南的工廠中搬遷。

All these are prepared for the 20 SoC's ramp-up.

所有這些都是為 20 SoC 的升級準備的。

This magnitude of mobilization, I believe, is not an easy job.

我相信，如此大規模的動員並不是一件容易的事。

We move people around that show our strength in manufacturing and this highly mobilization is not moving the tool or just a handful around.

我們調動人員以顯示我們在製造方面的實力，而這種高度動員並不是在移動工具，也不是在移動少數人。

We're talking about we're moving the engineer and operator among TSMC's fabs.

我們正在談論我們正在將工程師和操作員轉移到台積電的晶圓廠之間。

In the meanwhile, we have installed more than 1,500 major tools for this 20 SoC ramp.

同時，我們為這 20 個 SoC 斜坡安裝了 1,500 多個主要工具。

Of course, the faster ramp has done with a very good device reliability and a very good wafer defect density.

當然，更快的斜坡實現了非常好的器件可靠性和非常好的晶圓缺陷密度。

Without those, the fast ramp will make no sense.

沒有這些，快速斜坡將毫無意義。

Now how important are these 20 SoC ramp?

現在這 20 個 SoC 斜坡有多重要？

Well we knew that 28 nanometer provided the engine of TSMC's profitable growth in the years of 2012 and 2013 and similarly, we expect 20 SoC will provide the engine of TSMC's profitable growth in year 2014 and 2015.

我們知道 28 納米是台積電 2012 年和 2013 年盈利增長的引擎，同樣，我們預計 20 SoC 將成為台積電 2014 年和 2015 年盈利增長的引擎。

Now let me switch gear to advanced assembly technologies.

現在讓我切換到先進的裝配技術。

The purpose of -- for us to develop advanced assembly technology is to provide our customer a better performance and a lower power consumption, while at a lower cost as compared to the previous assembly solution.

我們開發先進組裝技術的目的是為我們的客戶提供更好的性能和更低的功耗，同時與以前的組裝解決方案相比成本更低。

For example, we have developed CoWoS and CoWoS has been developed to connect two dies or more dies together to have a very high performance and a very low power consumption and today CoWoS is in a small volume production already.

例如，我們開發了 CoWoS，而 CoWoS 已被開髮用於將兩個或多個裸片連接在一起以具有非常高的性能和非常低的功耗，而如今 CoWoS 已經小批量生產。

However, the cost structure of CoWoS has made CoWoS only suitable for some very high performance applications and the products.

但是，CoWoS 的成本結構使得 CoWoS 只適用於一些非常高性能的應用和產品。

To address the cost structure issue and for those mobile -- very large volume mobile devices, we have developed a derivative technology called InFO; that stands for integrated fan-out.

為解決成本結構問題並針對那些移動——超大容量移動設備，我們開發了一種稱為 InFO 的衍生技術；代表集成扇出。

InFO will have significant lower cost as compared to CoWoS and at the same time, InFO also can have the same capability to connect multiple dies together just as the CoWoS did.

與 CoWoS 相比，InFO 的成本將顯著降低，同時，InFO 也可以像 CoWoS 一樣具有將多個裸片連接在一起的能力。

Currently, we're working with major customers and the InFO, to incorporate this structure into their future product.

目前，我們正在與主要客戶和 InFO 合作，將這種結構整合到他們未來的產品中。

We have delivered many functional dies to our customers already and the process optimization are ongoing.

我們已經向我們的客戶交付了許多功能性模具，並且正在進行工藝優化。

In fact, we are very excited about TSMC's advanced assembly technology development as we're building a innovative solution for our customers product, which requires high performance, lower power consumption and at a very reasonable cost structure.

事實上，我們對台積電先進的組裝技術發展感到非常興奮，因為我們正在為客戶的產品構建創新的解決方案，這需要高性能、低功耗和非常合理的成本結構。

Now let me sum up today's key message which is presented by Mark and myself.

現在讓我總結一下今天馬克和我自己提出的關鍵信息。

First, we have revised up2014 forecast for the semiconductor industry and for foundry segment, as our outlook has become very positive.

首先，我們上調了對半導體行業和代工部門的 2014 年預測，因為我們的前景變得非常樂觀。

More importantly, TSMC will be able to strongly outperform our foundry peers and we will continue to increase our market segment share as we have done in the past four years.

更重要的是，台積電將能夠超越我們的代工同行，我們將繼續增加我們在過去四年中所做的市場份額。

The demand for 28 nanometer and 20 nanometer will provide a foundation for our profitable growth and the strength to outperform this year.

28納米和20納米的需求將為我們今年的盈利增長和跑贏大盤提供基礎。

20 SoC's ramp is a new record.

20 SoC 的斜坡是一個新的記錄。

That is one of the largest mobilization in the semiconductor industry.

這是半導體行業最大的動員之一。

Our 16 FinFET, especially 16 FinFET plus, are highly competitive and we have a very similar good defect density performance already with -- of course just like Mark said, it's 95% similar to 20 SoC, which we already have a very good defect density performance.

我們的 16 FinFET，尤其是 16 FinFET plus，具有很強的競爭力，我們已經擁有非常相似的良好缺陷密度性能——當然就像 Mark 所說，它與 20 SoC 有 95% 相似，我們已經擁有非常好的缺陷密度表現。

Our 10 nanometer technology development are on track and we're working on the cost effective advanced assembly solution InFO for our large volume mobile devices.

我們的 10 納米技術開發正在進行中，我們正在為我們的大容量移動設備開發具有成本效益的先進組裝解決方案 InFO。

And we believe all these activities will pave the way for our continued profitable course for the next few years.

我們相信所有這些活動將為我們未來幾年持續盈利的道路鋪平道路。

This ends our prepared remarks.

我們準備好的評論到此結束。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thank you C.C. This concludes our prepared statements.

謝謝C.C.我們準備好的陳述到此結束。

Before we begin the Q&A session, I would like to remind everybody to limit your questions to no more than two at a time, so that we can allow all participants an opportunity to ask questions.

在我們開始問答環節之前，我想提醒大家，將您的問題限制在一次不超過兩個，這樣我們就可以讓所有參與者都有提問的機會。

Questions will be taken both from the floor and from the line.

問題將在地板和線路上進行。

Should you wish to raise your question in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question.

如果您想用中文提出問題，我會在管理層回答您的問題之前將其翻譯成英文。

(Operator Instructions) Donald Lu, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員說明）Donald Lu，高盛。

(interpreted) First question Donald has is with respect to smartphone semiconductor content.

（解釋）唐納德的第一個問題是關於智能手機半導體內容的。

He likes to know what is the semiconductor content for the smartphone on average in 2013 and 2014 and what's the semiconductor content to TSMC for a smartphone in 2013 and 2014 and if we could do that, he also want us to break it down into low end and high end smartphones.

他想知道 2013 年和 2014 年智能手機的平均半導體含量是多少，台積電 2013 年和 2014 年智能手機的半導體含量是多少，如果我們能做到，他還希望我們將其分解為低端和高端智能手機。

That's the first question.

這是第一個問題。

The second question is with respect to 16-FinFET progress.

第二個問題是關於 16-FinFET 的進展。

According to Donald, ASML said they saw mobile FinFET delayed and he was wondering whether the delay is caused by TSMC or another company?

根據 Donald 的說法，ASML 表示他們看到移動 FinFET 延遲，他想知道延遲是由台積電還是其他公司造成的？

Okay.

好的。

I probably cannot give you as detailed numbers as you wish, but let me give you some numbers from my perspective, from my granularity.

我可能無法如你所願地給你詳細的數字，但讓我從我的角度，從我的粒度給你一些數字。

For the smartphone total, in 2013, TSMC's average wafer value per unit, per unit, is $7 last year, it will increase to about $8.

對於智能手機總量，2013年台積電的平均單片晶圓價值，去年為7美元，將增至8美元左右。

So this increase, of course, include the silicon content increase as well as the market share increase.

因此，這種增加當然包括矽含量的增加以及市場份額的增加。

But I cannot -- at this point I cannot distinguish those two.

但我不能——在這一點上，我無法區分這兩者。

But this increase significantly stands out -- is in the high-end smartphone.

但這種增長顯著突出——在高端智能手機中。

High-end smartphone, last year, we are about $10.8 per unit in average.

高端智能手機，去年，我們平均每台約 10.8 美元。

This year we expect to be $13.9.

今年我們預計為 13.9 美元。

So that's a major increase.

所以這是一個很大的增長。

For the mid-end and low-end we see similar level.

對於中端和低端，我們看到了相似的水平。

Last year was about $6 and this year will also be $6 and low end is 3.6 and this year will be 3.6 also.

去年大約是 6 美元，今年也將是 6 美元，低端是 3.6，今年也將是 3.6。

However, we do see the low-end performance spec continue increasing.

但是，我們確實看到低端性能規格繼續增加。

Mid-end and low-end smartphones continue increasing and we see a lot of features, regardless of mid-end or low-end, it's still increasing almost like the high-end of last year.

中低端智能手機繼續增加，我們看到很多功能，無論中端還是低端，它仍然在增加，幾乎和去年的高端一樣。

So these are the perspective we can see now.

所以這些是我們現在可以看到的觀點。

Secondly, about the ASML's message, I really don't know what he means.

其次，關於ASML的消息，我真的不知道他是什麼意思。

But let me give you some comment on that.

但是，讓我對此發表一些評論。

If you talk about the FinFET technology difficulties, our I must tell you that our 16 FinFET technology development is well on track and our new improvement is well on track and we are working with customers closely and we expect to ramp up 2015.

如果您談論 FinFET 技術的困難，我們必須告訴您，我們的 16 FinFET 技術開發進展順利，我們的新改進進展順利，我們正在與客戶密切合作，我們預計 2015 年將加速。

But I think one unique feature of our 16 FinFET is, our 16 FinFET has the same design rule, back-end design rule like 20.

但我認為我們的 16 FinFET 的一個獨特之處在於，我們的 16 FinFET 具有相同的設計規則，後端設計規則類似於 20。

So, we can leverage all the new learning, all the massive work C.C had talked about in this year into next year 16 FinFET.

因此，我們可以利用所有新的學習，C.C 在今年談到的所有大量工作到明年的 16 FinFET。

Secondly, if you observe the industry, mobile device industry, we do see in the past six months and we do see the 32 bit conversion to 64 bit in the processing after the Apple's announcement and that change, that transition, clearly indeed bring a lot of attention of the product development back to 28 and 20 nanometer product design.

其次，如果你觀察這個行業，移動設備行業，我們在過去的六個月裡確實看到了，我們確實看到了在蘋果宣布之後的處理過程中從 32 位到 64 位的轉換，那個轉變，那個轉變，顯然確實帶來了很多產品開發的注意力回到28和20納米的產品設計。

And indeed, we see increased demand on the 28 and 20 this year as well as next year.

事實上，我們看到今年和明年對 28 和 20 的需求都會增加。

So that's the second message.

這是第二條信息。

And the last message I'd like to comment, well that is if you combine in 20 and 16 -- our Chairman has mentioned to you that combined 20 and 16 total revenues in the first eight quarters or first two years will be even bigger than the 28-nanometer revenue in total.

我想評論的最後一條消息是，如果您將 20 和 16 合併 - 我們的主席已經向您提到，前 8 個季度或前兩年的總收入為 20 和 16 將甚至大於28 納米的總收入。

So that I give you this above.

所以我在上面給你這個。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Randy Abrams, Credit Suisse.

蘭迪艾布拉姆斯，瑞士信貸。

I could ask a follow-up on the 16.

我可以要求 16 日的後續行動。

Could you talk about the timing for the 16 regular version versus the plus version, if there is a difference on timing and also the customer adoptions?

您能否談談 16 普通版與加號版的時間安排，如果時間安排和客戶採用率存在差異？

Then could you also talk about your expectation at this early stage on market share for the 16 node?

那你能不能談談你在這個早期階段對16節點市場份額的期望？

So Randy, your question is with respect to the timing, the availability of the 16 FinFET versus the 16 FinFET plus.

所以 Randy，您的問題是關於時間、16 FinFET 與 16 FinFET plus 的可用性。

And then the way the customer adopts, whether they're more adopting 16 FinFET or the 16 FinFET plus?

那麼客戶採用的方式，是更多地採用 16 FinFET 還是 16 FinFET plus？

Okay.

好的。

16 FinFET plus will be qualified in September.

16 FinFET plus 將在 9 月獲得資格。

But remember, we and our customer work on 16 FinFET design one and a half years before.

但請記住，我們和我們的客戶在一年半前就已經完成了 16 個 FinFET 設計。

So all the customer already design -- the design is on 16 FinFET, okay.

所以所有的客戶都已經設計了——設計是在 16 FinFET 上的，好吧。

So the customer -- for those customers when the product tape out -- for example, we have a first product tapeout this month, it will ride on 16 FinFET process.

所以客戶——對於那些產品流片時的客戶——例如，我們本月有第一個產品流片，它將採用 16 FinFET 工藝。

And for those customers taped out in the second half, mostly, I would say mostly, will be riding on the 16 FinFET plus.

對於那些在下半年流片的客戶，我想說的是，大多數情況下，將使用 16 FinFET plus。

So I would think majority of our process customers will run on 16 FinFET plus.

所以我認為我們的大多數工藝客戶將在 16 FinFET plus 上運行。

And looking into the volume for the next year, I would say that most of the product will be run on 16 FinFET plus.

展望明年的產量，我想說大部分產品將在 16 FinFET plus 上運行。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝你。

And the second question, if we look ahead to second half, you talked about normal -- kind of normal profile for growth.

第二個問題，如果我們展望下半年，你談到了正常 - 一種正常的增長概況。

I mean if you could give a characterization, would that normally be for third quarter, fourth quarter, how you think about normal seasonal?

我的意思是，如果你能給出一個特徵，那通常是第三季度，第四季度，你如何看待正常的季節性？

And then in that context, for gross margin, given 20-nanometer is ramping and depreciation is going up, if potential of normal gross margins [can be had]?

然後在這種情況下，對於毛利率，鑑於 20 納米正在加速並且折舊正在上升，如果正常毛利率的潛力 [可以擁有]？

Okay, you are talking about a second half growth will be normal.

好吧，你說的是下半年的增長是正常的。

If I just give you the guidance of second quarter, we'll grow 22%.

如果我只是給你第二季度的指導，我們將增長 22%。

We believe "second half will be normal" means less than 22%.

我們認為“下半年會正常”是指低於 22%。

I cannot give you specific number, sorry.

我不能給你具體的號碼，對不起。

You also talked about the margins.

你還談到了利潤。

I think last quarter a lot of analysts asking how can we maintain even better structure profitability, given 35% year-over-year depreciation increase.

我認為上個季度很多分析師都在問，鑑於折舊同比增長 35%，我們如何才能保持更好的結構盈利能力。

Let me elaborate and I will talk about 20-nanometer impact.

讓我詳細說明一下，我將討論 20 納米的影響。

The reasons we can improve structural gross profitability are the following.

我們可以提高結構性毛利率的原因如下。

Number one, you see the 35% increase in depreciation that's on dollar to dollar, but we have also increased 10% capacity.

第一，你看到美元對美元的貶值增加了 35%，但我們也增加了 10% 的產能。

So, if you divide that by unit basis, actual depreciation on a whole basis go up about 22%.

因此，如果您將其除以單位，則整體上的實際折舊率會上升約 22%。

It's number one.

它是第一名。

Number two, depreciation accounts for about half of our manufacturing cost.

第二，折舊約占我們製造成本的一半。

We have another half.

我們還有一半。

That's basically the variable cost, these are material and other fixed cost.

這基本上是可變成本，這些是材料和其他固定成本。

We work extremely hard to drive those costs down.

我們非常努力地降低這些成本。

So with very good progress.

所以進展非常好。

With that, along with a better blended ASP, thanks to the technology migrations and our higher yield and better performance, we are able to raise the overall corporate SGM level.

有了這個，加上更好的混合平均售價，由於技術遷移以及我們更高的產量和更好的性能，我們能夠提高整體企業 SGM 水平。

With the ramping of 20-nanometer, which just started in a second quarter, we will have a very, very small volume shipment.

隨著第二季度剛剛開始的 20 納米技術的發展，我們的出貨量將非常非常小。

We'll have much more volume in the third and fourth quarter at any new nodes, starting with low margin.

從低利潤率開始，我們將在第三和第四季度在任何新節點上擁有更多的銷量。

So, we expect there will be some dilution to corporate level margin starting from second quarter.

因此，我們預計從第二季度開始，公司層面的利潤率將會有所稀釋。

The magnitude of that, it will impact by 1% in the second quarter.

其幅度，它將在第二季度影響 1%。

It will be slightly bigger than 1%, will be a very low single-digit impact on our second half.

它將略大於 1%，對我們下半年的個位數影響非常低。

For the whole year, we still expect to see a slightly higher SGM compared to last year.

全年，我們仍預計 SGM 將比去年略高。

Dan Heyler, Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

美國銀行美林證券的丹·海勒。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Good afternoon.

下午好。

Thanks for all the clarifications on 20 and 16.

感謝 20 日和 16 日的所有澄清。

It's very helpful.

這很有幫助。

I now want to follow up on Donald's questions on the mobile numbers that you put out, which were helpful.

我現在想跟進唐納德關於你提供的手機號碼的問題，這些問題很有幫助。

That's a very significant increase in the high-end content per phone for TSMC in terms of market share.

就市場份額而言，這是台積電每部手機高端內容的顯著增長。

Congratulations there.

祝賀那裡。

I wanted to talk more about your mid-end number.

我想多談談你的中端號碼。

I am a little bit surprised to see that you talked about the mid-end phones being basically flat, but you also commented that the specs are increasing for mid to low-end phones.

看到您談到中端手機基本持平，我有點驚訝，但您也評論說中低端手機的規格正在增加。

So, would that suggest that there is significant pricing pressure and you're not benefiting from that content increase?

那麼，這是否表明存在巨大的定價壓力並且您沒有從內容增加中受益？

Thanks.

謝謝。

This is the number for the full year.

這是全年的數字。

So the current we can see is from 5.9 to 6. So, I really cannot distinguish the silicon content versus the market share.

所以目前我們可以看到是從 5.9 到 6。所以，我真的無法區分矽含量和市場份額。

I think we will hold our market share as we had before.

我認為我們將像以前一樣保持我們的市場份額。

Price, as you know, is always there, yeah.

如您所知，價格始終存在，是的。

Okay.

好的。

Yeah, I think that mid-end market is where there's significant units in terms of -- globally it represents the biggest part of the units and I am amazed how much that content is increasing the mid-end phone.

是的，我認為中端市場是有重要單位的地方 - 在全球範圍內，它代表了單位的最大部分，我很驚訝這些內容正在增加中端手機的數量。

So, I was a little surprised as to why you're not seeing your dollar value in the mid-end market go up more.

所以，我有點驚訝為什麼你沒有看到你在中端市場上的美元價值上漲得更多。

Is that maybe happening in the second half of the year in 2014 or 2015?

這可能發生在2014年或2015年下半年嗎？

So, how should we think about that?

那麼，我們應該如何思考呢？

I think it has to do with 20 SoC also, which is mostly second half.

我認為這也與 20 SoC 有關，這主要是下半年。

Dan, do you want to release your microphone?

丹，你想釋放你的麥克風嗎？

Well, they were chatting.

嗯，他們在聊天。

I thought C.C. was going to comment there.

我以為C.C.打算在那裡發表評論。

No, I will not give up my microphone.

不，我不會放棄我的麥克風。

I have one more question.

我還有一個問題。

I wanted ask a bit about -- if you could elaborate on what's your feeling of the progress on EUV, if you think it's coming on slowly or are we still kind of treading water and your latest best estimate on when there would be an insertion into your progress, again, timing?

我想問一下——如果你能詳細說明你對 EUV 進展的感覺，如果你認為它進展緩慢，或者我們仍然在踩水，以及你對何時會插入的最新最佳估計你的進展，再次，時機？

Thanks.

謝謝。

No.

不。

I think we work very closely with ASML.

我認為我們與 ASML 密切合作。

So, their comment about EUV yesterday, I think, we hold this same perspective.

所以，他們昨天對 EUV 的評論，我認為，我們持有同樣的觀點。

Okay, today, of course, EUV is not up to the production spec.

好的，今天，當然，EUV 不符合生產規格。

Actually the most recent breakthrough was a 30 watt and now they a have higher 80 watt machine that we're still working toward that goal.

實際上，最近的突破是 30 瓦，現在他們有更高的 80 瓦機器，我們仍在朝著這個目標努力。

So -- and also the same as Peter had mentioned yesterday that EUV will not be inserted in 10 nanometer at the start, because it will slower the pass-through window.

所以——就像彼得昨天提到的一樣，EUV 不會在一開始就插入 10 納米，因為它會減慢通過窗口。

So we, however -- our EUV team is still continuously working on EUV, hopefully to insert a few layers after the 10 nanometer process start to qualify as a follow up process simplification.

但是，我們的 EUV 團隊仍在繼續研究 EUV，希望在 10 納米工藝開始後插入幾層，作為後續工藝簡化。

Okay.

好的。

And that will meant to be second half next year.

這將意味著明年下半年。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Michael Chou, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的邁克爾·週。

I don't know, C.C. Wei, could you give us more color on the advanced packaging you just mentioned.

我不知道，C.C.魏，你能不能給我們更多關於你剛才提到的高級包裝的顏色。

What's the difference between this one and CoWoS?

這個和 CoWoS 有什麼區別？

The difference between the InFO and the CoWoS is actually the geometry to connect multi-dies together.

InFO 和 CoWoS 之間的區別實際上在於將多個裸片連接在一起的幾何結構。

In the CoWoS, actually we are using very small geometry, actually 65 nanometers of geometry to connect the multi-dies together.

在 CoWoS 中，實際上我們使用了非常小的幾何結構，實際上是 65 納米的幾何結構來將多個裸片連接在一起。

In InFO, we're using the larger geometry, which are still technical confidential information.

在 InFO 中，我們使用更大的幾何圖形，這仍然是技術機密信息。

But the cost is much, much lower.

但是成本要低得多。

Could we expect that would be adopted by mobile customers?

我們能否期望移動客戶會採用這種方式？

I would like to say that we are working with major customers.

我想說的是，我們正在與主要客戶合作。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

The second question is regarding Q2 outlook by segments?

第二個問題是關於按細分市場劃分的第二季度前景？

Second quarter, all segments will grow more than seasonal, especially strong in communication, consumer and industrial-related applications.

第二季度，所有細分市場的增長都將超過季節性，尤其是在通信、消費和工業相關應用方面表現強勁。

Computer will grow less than the other three segments.

計算機的增長將低於其他三個細分市場。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Gokul, JPMorgan.

Gokul，摩根大通。

Yeah, thanks for taking my question.

是的，謝謝你提出我的問題。

My question is about the second wave of demand, both for 28-nanometer.

我的問題是關於 28 納米的第二波需求。

I think some of it is already coming through.

我認為其中一些已經通過。

And how do you think about second wave of demand for the future process like 20 or 16?

以及您如何看待像 20 或 16 這樣的未來流程的第二波需求？

Is it going to be much smaller and how does that have an impact in terms of your thinking on investment as well as future returns?

它會變得更小嗎？這對您對投資和未來回報的看法有何影響？

Thanks.

謝謝。

I think Gokul, your question is with respect to the backfill of the 20 and 16-nanometer once the first wave customers migrate to the next node, whether or not we will have sufficient demand, as big as what we had in the past and whether or not -- if not whether this will change our investment profile and change our return on invested capital?

我認為 Gokul，你的問題是關於 20 和 16 納米的回填，一旦第一波客戶遷移到下一個節點，我們是否會有足夠的需求，和過去一樣大，是否與否——如果不是，這是否會改變我們的投資狀況並改變我們的投資資本回報率？

Hi.

你好。

Let me answer this question.

讓我來回答這個問題。

The 20-nanometer SoC is not a transition node.

20 納米 SoC 不是過渡節點。

We have worked with our customer, already come out with very powerful products and in the ramping up.

我們已經與我們的客戶合作，已經推出了非常強大的產品，並且正在加速發展。

So -- and these customers, some of them indeed will quickly transition to 16 FinFET plus.

所以 - 這些客戶，其中一些確實會迅速過渡到 16 FinFET plus。

However, still some other product will stay on 20 SoC for quite a long time, for quite a long time.

但是，還有一些其他產品會在 20 SoC 上停留相當長的一段時間，相當長的一段時間。

Not every product requires the highest speed for example.

例如，並非每種產品都需要最高速度。

But the key is we manage this transition by -- the tool commonality between 20 and 16 are 95%.

但關鍵是我們通過 20 到 16 之間的工具通用性來管理這種過渡，達到 95%。

So when the customer move from 20 SoC to 16 FinFET, we only need to increase a very marginal amount of the capital to suffice that demand.

因此，當客戶從 20 個 SoC 遷移到 16 個 FinFET 時，我們只需要增加非常少量的資本即可滿足該需求。

Of course, the ASP.

當然是ASP。

And the product will be more competitive for our customer.

並且該產品對我們的客戶來說將更具競爭力。

So that's how we -- so we consider 20 SoC, CapEx-wise, almost -- very similar to -- I'll put it together as one node.

所以這就是我們 - 所以我們考慮 20 個 SoC，CapEx 方面，幾乎 - 非常相似 - 我將把它作為一個節點放在一起。

But it does provide our customer their product grade or product spec to continually improve year-after-year.

但它確實為我們的客戶提供了他們的產品等級或產品規格，以便年復一年地不斷改進。

Okay.

好的。

Just one more follow-up on that.

只是對此的另一項後續行動。

I think you have indicated that your 2015 CapEx will start to come off a little bit.

我想你已經表示你的 2015 年資本支出將開始下降一點。

Should we expect that to continue going into 2016 and 10 nanometer or is it intermediate stock and then we need to ramp up as we ramp up the EUV and (inaudible)?

我們是否應該期望它繼續進入 2016 年和 10 納米，或者它是中間庫存，然後我們需要隨著 EUV 和（聽不清）的增加而增加？

We have not decided CapEx for 2015, but from what we are seeing right now we expect the CapEx for next year will be similar to this year's level.

我們還沒有決定 2015 年的資本支出，但從我們現在看到的情況來看，我們預計明年的資本支出將與今年的水平相似。

However, because our revenues are continuing to grow for this year and also for next year, so the CapEx intensity will go down this year and next year as well.

然而，因為我們今年和明年的收入都在繼續增長，所以今年和明年的資本支出強度也會下降。

Next boost of CapEx will be 10 nanometer.

資本支出的下一個提升將是 10 納米。

So I think that will be coming on maybe the timeframe of 2016 and 2017.

所以我認為這可能會在 2016 年和 2017 年的時間範圍內出現。

Steven Pelayo, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的史蒂文·佩拉約。

Hi.

你好。

We focus so much on 20 and 16 nanometer, but I guess, one thing I noticed here in the first quarter is your 45 nanometer actually grew about 25% quarter-on-quarter.

我們非常關注 20 和 16 納米，但我想，我在第一季度在這裡註意到的一件事是，您的 45 納米實際上環比增長了約 25%。

That was a bit of a surprise.

這有點意外。

So what's the driver for kind of that mid node?

那麼這種中間節點的驅動因素是什麼？

And then the second question would be the More-than-Moore strategy.

然後第二個問題是More-than-Moore 策略。

Are you out of capacity in 200 millimeter?

200毫米的容量不夠？

Are you able to transition some of those products to 300 millimeter, what are we thinking for the higher nodes that are still half the business?

您能否將其中一些產品過渡到 300 毫米，對於仍然佔一半業務的更高節點，我們有什麼想法？

I'll answer the 45-nanometer demand.

我將回答 45 納米的需求。

I think our 40 and 45-nanometer market share holds up this year much better and our -- the product mostly is the -- associated with the connectivity, and the connectivity integration become very big.

我認為我們今年的 40 和 45 納米市場份額要好得多，而且我們的產品——主要是——與連接相關，連接集成變得非常大。

So -- and our -- we hold very large capacity for our customer.

所以 - 和我們的 - 我們為我們的客戶擁有非常大的容量。

So the demand is very strong this year.

所以今年的需求非常旺盛。

Your second is More-than-Moore?

你的第二個是More-than-Moore？

On even higher level nodes.

在更高級別的節點上。

I mean, obviously things like CMOS image sensors, fingerprint sensors, they suck up a lot of capacity and historically these are being built on 200 millimeters.

我的意思是，很明顯，像 CMOS 圖像傳感器、指紋傳感器之類的東西，它們會佔用很多容量，而從歷史上看，這些都是建立在 200 毫米上的。

So I'm curious are you out of more mature node capacity and what are you doing about that?

所以我很好奇你是不是沒有更成熟的節點容量，你在做什麼呢？

That's a good question.

這是個好問題。

Actually we did not increase huge amount of capacity for those specialties.

實際上，我們並沒有為這些專業增加大量的容量。

But we did modify and buying some parts and tools to increase a little bit and also to convert the logic capacity into the more and more specialties capacities.

但是我們確實修改併購買了一些零件和工具，以增加一點點，並將邏輯容量轉換為越來越多的專業容量。

We did all the time.

我們一直這樣做。

We continue to see the strong demand on those specialties just like you mentioned, CMOS image sensor, fingerprint especially, embedded flash, for the multi, for those kind of products.

就像你提到的那樣，我們繼續看到對那些專業的強勁需求，CMOS 圖像傳感器，尤其是指紋，嵌入式閃存，對於這些產品。

I can just sneak one last question.

我可以偷偷問最後一個問題。

We're still focused on intensifying competitive landscape potentially at 16 and 40 nanometer.

我們仍然專注於可能在 16 和 40 納米上加強競爭格局。

But it seems to me that at 28 to maybe now 45 as well, you guys are just extending, you're lengthening your period of dominance.

但在我看來，從 28 歲到現在 45 歲，你們只是在延長，你們在延長自己的統治時期。

So, this fear of -- this talk of potential second sourcing, it almost seems like the competitive landscape has almost got less intense.

因此，這種對潛在二次採購的恐懼，似乎競爭格局幾乎沒有那麼激烈了。

Would you agree with that?

你同意嗎？

I think it will be more difficult today and even more difficult in the future.

我想今天會更難，未來會更難。

Take 28 nanometer, for example, this is already the third year -- the fourth year we ramped 28 and the third year we ramped 28 high-K metal gate.

以 28 納米為例，這已經是第三年了——我們第四年推出 28 納米，第三年推出 28 高 K 金屬柵極。

And, first of all, the complexity is hard.

而且，首先，複雜性很難。

But, secondly, when we ramped 20, our performance did not stand still.

但是，其次，當我們升級到 20 時，我們的表現並沒有停滯不前。

We continued to improve the product grid in the 28 nanometer.

我們繼續改進28納米的產品網格。

There are several ways our product saw improvement.

我們的產品有多種改進方式。

That's how we try to defend our market share.

這就是我們試圖捍衛我們的市場份額的方式。

Roland Shu, Citi.

羅蘭舒，花旗。

Good afternoon.

下午好。

My first question is to C.C. C.C., you are talking about the engineer mobilization is the key for the fast ramp on the 20 nanometer.

我的第一個問題是 C.C. C.C.，您說的是工程師動員是 20 納米快速爬坡的關鍵。

I think definitely the reason you highlighted, TSMC has enough talent pool for that.

我認為絕對是您強調的原因，台積電有足夠的人才庫。

Adding new people, sure.

增加新的人，當然。

But I think going forward, I think the last couple of weeks TSMC say, we like to hire about 5,000 talent.

但我認為未來幾週，台積電錶示，我們希望僱傭大約 5,000 名人才。

And at the same time Hon Hai and the other Tier 1 company in Taiwan also would like to hire thousands of the talent.

同時鴻海和台灣其他一級公司也想聘請數千名人才。

So are you worried about the shortage of the talent pool in Taiwan?

那麼您是否擔心台灣人才庫的短缺？

I think TSMC toady is a preferred employer in Taiwan.

我認為台積電今天是台灣的首選雇主。

So, I don't use the word worry.

所以，我不用擔心這個詞。

Okay, yeah.

好的，是的。

I think it's very nice to hear you're so confident about that.

我認為很高興聽到你對此如此自信。

But I think another question is how you are going to motivate current employees going forward or the new employees and to motivate them to work more hard, more smart, more innovative and give more contribution to TSMC?

但我認為另一個問題是，你將如何激勵現有員工或新員工，並激勵他們更努力、更聰明、更創新，為台積電做出更多貢獻？

How to motivate existing employees?

如何激勵現有員工？

Actually TSMC continue to expand and our young engineer or the employees all have a very bright future, because of -- there are a lot of new openings in the higher position and Company's performance is getting very good, that's enough to motivate our existing employees.

其實台積電在不斷擴大，我們年輕的工程師或員工都有一個非常光明的未來，因為——有很多新的職位在更高的職位上，公司的表現越來越好，這足以激勵我們現有的員工。

We never have that problem.

我們從來沒有這個問題。

Okay.

好的。

Yeah, TSMC is a very good career place to all of your employees.

是的，台積電對您所有的員工來說都是一個非常好的職業場所。

Okay my second question is to Lora.

好的，我的第二個問題是勞拉。

I actually look at your -- you said on your margin improvement actually from the continuous cost reduction is one of the reason and also look at your other manufacturing cost in first quarter have been declined about 7% quarter-on quarter even though you have the same amount of wafer shipment.

我實際上看看你的 - 你說你的利潤率提高實際上來自持續的成本降低是原因之一，並且看看你第一季度的其他製造成本環比下降了大約 7%，即使你有相同數量的晶圓出貨量。

So my question is how much room is there for you to continue cut cost and to squeeze your gross margin?

所以我的問題是你有多少空間可以繼續削減成本並擠壓你的毛利率？

I also ask myself the same questions, how much room.

我也問自己同樣的問題，有多少空間。

But I was -- every time I was surprised how much the engineer actually can do.

但我 - 每次我都驚訝於工程師實際上能做多少事情。

So I'm confident.

所以我很有信心。

We will continue to drive that.

我們將繼續推動這一點。

It's old technology, current technology and leading edge technology.

它是舊技術、當前技術和前沿技術。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

And I think a follow-up is on -- I think TSMC now is loading at very high utilization now and what's your expectation if TSMC is loading at 100% utilization, what is the margin expectation for TSMC at the current SGM?

我認為後續行動正在進行中——我認為台積電現在的負載利用率非常高，如果台積電以 100% 的利用率負載，你的期望是什麼，台積電在當前的 SGM 上的利潤率預期是多少？

Thank you.

謝謝你。

I think you are trying t understand whether we can achieve 50% again if the capacity utilization gets to 100%, right?

我想你想知道如果產能利用率達到 100%，我們是否可以再次達到 50%，對吧？

I can say I think we have the capability to achieve 50% if the utilization exceed or reach 100%.

我可以說，如果利用率超過或達到 100%，我認為我們有能力達到 50%。

Okay, I think this is about time that we should open the Q&A to those people who are on the line.

好的，我認為現在是我們應該向那些在線的人開放問答的時候了。

Operator, could you proceed with the first caller on the line?

接線員，您可以接第一個來電者嗎？

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

Mehdi Hosseini，SIG。

Yes, thanks for taking my question.

是的，謝謝你提出我的問題。

Going back to the commentary on 16 and 16 plus, it seems to me that 16 nanometer plus will have a larger mix of revenue and 16-nanometer revenue contribution would be limited.

回到關於 16 和 16+ 的評論，在我看來，16 納米+ 將有更大的收入組合，而 16 納米的收入貢獻將是有限的。

Could you please clarify that?

你能澄清一下嗎？

And then what should we think about the actual contribution?

那麼我們應該如何看待實際貢獻呢？

Is it going more of a Q4 2016, or would it be more meaningful in early 2016?

它會更像 2016 年第四季度，還是在 2016 年初更有意義？

Alright.

好吧。

Maybe I think his question is with respect to 16 FinFET versus 16 FinFET plus, whether or not we will have a bigger business volume from 16 FinFET plus and if so, whether or not the volume will be coming from Q4 of 2015 or we have to wait until 2016?

也許我認為他的問題是關於 16 FinFET 與 16 FinFET plus 的比較，我們是否會從 16 FinFET plus 獲得更大的業務量，如果是，那麼該業務量是否會來自 2015 年第四季度或者我們必須等到2016年？

From 2015, first of all.

首先，從 2015 年開始。

The volume of 16 FinFET plus will happen in 2015 and let me drive that.

16 FinFET plus 的數量將在 2015 年實現，讓我來推動它。

Even for some of the customer, initially their products sits on 16 FinFET, they also would like to migrate their second if market opened up indeed to upgrade their product.

即使對於一些客戶來說，最初他們的產品在 16 FinFET 上，如果市場確實開放，他們也希望遷移他們的第二個來升級他們的產品。

So I will see the majority, I really mean vast majority will be 16 FinFET plus.

所以我會看到大多數，我的意思是絕大多數將是 16 個 FinFET plus。

Okay and then one follow-up question for Lora.

好的，然後是 Lora 的一個後續問題。

You talk about the SG&A trend into the second half.

您談到下半年的 SG&A 趨勢。

What should we think about R&D?

我們應該如何看待研發？

Should we also assume that the R&D, because so much of revenue will go higher in the second half and into 2015?

我們是否也應該假設研發，因為如此多的收入將在下半年和 2015 年走高？

I think the current R&D to revenue is ranging from 7% to 8%.

我認為目前研發到收入的比例在 7% 到 8% 之間。

If I look at the second half, I think they are still in that range, from 7% to 8% range.

如果我看下半年，我認為他們仍然在那個範圍內，從 7% 到 8% 的範圍。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝你。

Brett Samson, Arete Research.

Brett Samson，Arete Research。

Thanks very much.

非常感謝。

Just had a quick question.

剛問了一個簡單的問題。

Can you give us a sense within the 28 nanometer nodes, how does that split between poly-SiON and high-K and how do you think this might trend through this year?

您能否告訴我們在 28 納米節點內的情況，多晶矽和高 K 之間是如何劃分的，您認為今年的趨勢如何？

So Brett's question is what is really the mix between poly-SiON, that is our 28 LP, versus our high-k metal gate and what is going to be the trend with respect to that kind of mix throughout this year?

所以 Brett 的問題是，poly-SiON（即我們的 28 LP）與我們的高 k 金屬柵極之間的真正混合是什麼？今年這種混合的趨勢是什麼？

Allow me to answer that.

請允許我回答這個問題。

Our 28 nanometer high-k metal gate has three options, 28HP, 28HPM and 28HPC.

我們的 28 納米高 k 金屬柵極有 28HP、28HPM 和 28HPC 三種選擇。

And this year these 28 high-k metal gate technology will be about 85% of the overall 28 nanometer in terms of the wafer.

而今年這些 28 高 k 金屬柵極技術將佔整個 28 納米晶圓的 85% 左右。

Great.

偉大的。

That's very helpful.

這很有幫助。

And I have follow-up question on InFO.

我有關於 InFO 的後續問題。

Can you maybe talk a little bit about attach rates for InFO over the next couple of years in smartphones?

您能否談談未來幾年智能手機中 InFO 的附加費率？

Is this something you expect all major smartphone chip makers to adopt or is it something that you think is more targeted at the high end?

這是您希望所有主要智能手機芯片製造商採用的東西，還是您認為更針對高端的東西？

And maybe as a quick follow-up on that, what is the real benefit that InFO is bringing to chipmakers?

也許作為對此的快速跟進，InFO 給芯片製造商帶來的真正好處是什麼？

I don't know, if there is a performance or power saving you can share with us.

不知道有沒有性能或者省電的地方可以和我們分享一下。

And also how should we think about the margin structure for this within TSMC's business?

以及我們應該如何考慮台積電業務中的利潤率結構？

Thank you.

謝謝你。

You ask whether we are working with the customer and when we will have a product out?

你問我們是否正在與客戶合作，我們什麼時候會推出產品？

We are working with the major customers that all I can say and outlook is very good, performance is very good.

我們正在與主要客戶合作，我只能說前景非常好，性能非常好。

The cost is low.

成本很低。

I believe that we will see the product out, but that will be our customer's schedule.

我相信我們會看到產品出來，但這將是我們客戶的日程安排。

Technology is close to be in production ready probably early next year.

技術即將在明年初投入生產。

Okay.

好的。

And if I look out maybe a couple of years from now, just to get a sense, is this something you think will be a very high attach rate?

如果我在幾年後觀察一下，只是為了了解一下，你認為這會是一個非常高的附加率嗎？

When you sell SoCs with the leading edge, do you think the percentage of chips you sell at leading edge will be attached with InFO?

當您銷售具有領先優勢的 SoC 時，您認為您銷售的處於領先優勢的芯片的百分比會附加 InFO 嗎？

I'm just trying to get a sense for the penetration that you think InFO will have within your -- the bigger smartphone chipmakers?

我只是想了解一下你認為 InFO 在你的——更大的智能手機芯片製造商中的滲透率？

We certainly believe that attach rate; you're using that word attach rate, we certainly think it will be very popular among the mobile product and because we provided a very low cost solution and continue to give the high performance and lower power consumption.

我們當然相信附加率；您使用的是附加率這個詞，我們當然認為它會在移動產品中非常流行，因為我們提供了一個非常低成本的解決方案，並繼續提供高性能和低功耗。

Whether it's going to be -- what is the percentage of attach rate, I cannot answer that question right now.

無論是——附加率的百分比是多少，我現在無法回答這個問題。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Alright, let me go back to the floor now.

好吧，讓我現在回到地板上。

Bill Lu, Morgan Stanley.

比爾·盧，摩根士丹利。

Hi, good afternoon.

你好，下午好。

I will start with a housekeeping question for Lora.

我將從勞拉的家政問題開始。

A quarter ago, management said that the Company was pre-building -- forgot what the word was exactly, but building some of the demand in 2Q and 1Q and that impacted margins.

一個季度前，管理層表示公司正在預建——忘記了確切的詞是什麼，但在第二季度和第一季度建立了一些需求，這影響了利潤率。

If you look at your 2Q guide, if that didn't happen can you tell me what the margins would have been?

如果您查看您的 2Q 指南，如果沒有發生這種情況，您能告訴我利潤是多少嗎？

I think that would have been -- 1Q margin little bit lower and 2Q margin little bit higher, right?

我認為那會是——1Q 利潤率略低，2Q 利潤率略高，對吧？

2Q will be a very strong quarter and our capacity are essentially full.

第二季度將是一個非常強勁的季度，我們的產能基本上已經滿了。

So, there's no need to build inventory and no room to build the inventory.

所以，沒有必要建立庫存，也沒有空間來建立庫存。

So I wasn't clear.

所以我不清楚。

I don't mean that you would do that again in 2Q, but what you did in 1Q impacted 1Q margins and 2Q margins, correct?

我並不是說你會在第二季度再次這樣做，但你在第一季度所做的事情影響了第一季度和第二季度的利潤率，對嗎？

Yeah, Bill's point is that since we did it in the first quarter, which probably represents some sort of a pulling from the second quarter.

是的，比爾的觀點是，因為我們是在第一季度這樣做的，這可能代表了對第二季度的某種拉動。

So, had we not done that, our second quarter utilization probably will be even higher and the second quarter's margins will be higher.

因此，如果我們不這樣做，我們第二季度的利用率可能會更高，第二季度的利潤率會更高。

I have to talk from first quarter.

我必須從第一季度開始談。

I said, first quarter we did do some inventory and the impact for first quarter was about one percentage point, margin.

我說，第一季度我們確實做了一些庫存，第一季度的影響大約是一個百分點，利潤率。

For second quarter, had we continue doing that, well you have to look at which node you're building.

對於第二季度，如果我們繼續這樣做，那麼您必須查看您正在構建的節點。

For example, for certain capacity, it's already full.

例如，對於某些容量，它已經滿了。

So you can only run that much, right?

所以你只能跑那麼多，對吧？

So, I don't know how to assume, we will be exceeding 110% utilization?

所以，我不知道如何假設，我們將超過 110% 的利用率？

That's essentially not possible.

這基本上是不可能的。

So am I answering your question?

那我在回答你的問題嗎？

Not exactly.

不完全是。

I guess I could take it offline.

我想我可以讓它離線。

That's okay.

沒關係。

Okay.

好的。

Maybe I should say that the inventory build for the first quarter has no impact on second quarter.

也許我應該說第一季度的庫存增加對第二季度沒有影響。

It will impact first quarter, because we utilized first quarter's capacity ahead of time.

它將影響第一季度，因為我們提前利用了第一季度的產能。

Doesn't mean that that second quarter margins would have been a little bit higher?

不是說第二季度的利潤率會高一點嗎？

Second quarter order already coming in, it's a regular order.

第二季度的訂單已經到了，這是一個常規訂單。

Second question is on this inventory cycle that we have seen.

第二個問題是關於我們所看到的這個庫存週期。

So, if you look back into last year, 1Q, 2Q were also very good and the things dropped off in 3Q and 4Q.

所以，如果你回顧去年，1Q、2Q 也非常好，3Q 和 4Q 的情況有所下降。

Can you talk about what you're seeing now that is different from a year ago in terms of potentially a broader base recovery, maybe more end markets, more customers, or what are you seeing that gives you confidence that that won't happen again this year?

你能談談你現在看到的與一年前不同的情況嗎今年？

And I guess, if you look at this more broadly, TSMC used to have a very diversified customer base, but in the not too distant future, I could see your top two customers being 25%, 30% of total revenues, both in the mobile segment, right?

而且我想，如果你更廣泛地看待這一點，台積電曾經擁有非常多元化的客戶群，但在不久的將來，我可以看到你的前兩個客戶分別佔總收入的 25% 和 30%，兩者都在移動部分，對吧？

How do you manage that concentration going forward?

您如何管理這種專注度？

Bill, you actually have two questions packaged into one.

比爾，你實際上有兩個問題合二為一。

Okay.

好的。

I think, as you know, in the past few years, we see the end of the year people try to control inventories and towards the end of the year it's about back to the seasonal level.

我認為，如您所知，在過去幾年中，我們看到人們試圖控制庫存，而到了年底，它又回到了季節性水平。

However, last year, we look at our fabless DOI and in the industry they drastically control the inventory, reduce the inventory.

然而，去年，我們查看了我們的無晶圓 DOI，在行業中，他們大幅控制庫存，減少庫存。

Even at the end of Q3, we see them get to seasonal.

即使在第三季度末，我們也看到它們進入季節性。

And going to Q4, everybody find that their inventory is below seasonal.

到第四季度，每個人都發現他們的庫存低於季節性。

Our data shows below seasonal by six days, which didn't happen before.

我們的數據顯示低於季節性六天，這是以前沒有發生過的。

Therefore, you see the -- the reason they did this, because of their perspective for the outlook when they were in the third quarter of last year.

因此，您會看到他們這樣做的原因，因為他們在去年第三季度對前景的看法。

Now for this quarter, we see the inventory not even back to seasonal.

現在對於本季度，我們看到庫存甚至沒有恢復到季節性。

It is still, from our data, is minus five days below seasonal.

根據我們的數據，它仍然比季節性低五天。

So, they don't have time to replenish inventory given the better outlook.

因此，鑑於前景較好，他們沒有時間補充庫存。

So, what happens to -- you see the inventory will happen in the second quarter.

那麼，會發生什麼 - 你會看到庫存將在第二季度發生。

Now, whether this year we will be as bad as last year, I think I am typically more optimistic, because even down to the second quarter is only to the seasonal level.

現在，今年我們是否會像去年一樣糟糕，我認為我通常更樂觀，因為即使下降到第二季度也只是季節性水平。

So it might -- even we assume it doesn't overshoot, it shouldn't be very much below seasonal.

所以它可能——即使我們假設它沒有超調，它也不應該低於季節性。

So, this is the difference we see this year.

所以，這就是我們今年看到的不同。

Customer concentration risk

客戶集中風險

Customer concentration, we just work very closely with our customers, okay.

客戶集中，我們只是與客戶密切合作，好吧。

Remember if you're IDM, you have to face the -- and if you have much big market share you have to face the same consumer product demand decontrol.

請記住，如果您是 IDM，您必鬚麵對——如果您擁有很大的市場份額，您必鬚麵對同樣的消費產品需求失控。

So this problem is more an industry problem than our problem, but we deal with this problem by working very closely with our two biggest customer and today we're already together planning our 2015 supply/demand very closely.

所以這個問題更多的是一個行業問題，而不是我們的問題，但我們通過與我們的兩個最大客戶密切合作來解決這個問題，今天我們已經在非常密切地計劃我們 2015 年的供需。

So we recognize these challenges.

因此，我們認識到這些挑戰。

Our customer also recognize the same challenges, so the only solution is work very closely together.

我們的客戶也認識到同樣的挑戰，因此唯一的解決方案是密切合作。

Andrew Lu, Barclays.

安德魯·盧，巴克萊銀行。

You just now forgot my name?

你剛才忘了我的名字？

I forgot your company.

我忘記了你的公司。

We still survive.

我們還活著。

(spoken in foreign language) The first one is the CapEx number for next year, about 10 billion.

（外語發言）第一個是明年的CapEx數字，大約100億。

For this year we are going to spend a lot of money on 20-nanometer capacity, but it is very likely one or two customers is going to migrate to FinFET -- larger customer to 16 FinFET plus or something.

今年我們將在 20 納米容量上花費大量資金，但很可能會有一兩個客戶遷移到 FinFET——更大的客戶遷移到 16 FinFET plus 之類的。

And earlier you said is capacity is 95% convertible.

之前你說的是容量是 95% 可轉換的。

I believe the spending is very low.

我相信支出非常低。

Assuming we have a 40k, 50k capacity by the end of this year and next year 30k convert to 16 FinFET, instead of adding a new capacity.

假設我們有 40k、50k 產能到今年年底和明年 30k 轉換為 16 FinFET，而不是增加新產能。

Supposing next year CapEx should be sharply decline compared to this year, so I don't know what's the mix on this one?

假設明年的資本支出應該比今年急劇下降，所以我不知道這個的組合是什麼？

Thank you.

謝謝你。

You said next year the capacity will suddenly decline?

你說明年產能會突然下降？

Yes, because your 20 versus 16 is 95% convertible.

是的，因為您的 20 對 16 是 95% 可兌換的。

Okay.

好的。

What do we see is this year we ramped 20-nanometer very steeply, but toward the end of year, we see next year the combined 20 and 16 capacity will continue to increase next year.

我們看到的是，今年我們在 20 納米方面的發展非常迅速，但到了年底，我們看到明年 20 納米和 16 納米的總產能將在明年繼續增加。

So some of the 16 FinFET we will convert 20 to 16, but we will also add a new 16 FinFET capacity next year.

因此，我們會將 16 個 FinFET 中的一些轉換為 20 個到 16 個，但明年我們還將增加一個新的 16 個 FinFET 容量。

That's what the most of the CapEx this year is due for.

這就是今年大部分資本支出的用途。

So the total 20 and 16 capacity will continue to increase next year.

所以明年總的20和16容量將繼續增加。

So total combined, 20 plus 16, the amount, the capacity you're going to add, quite similar for both each year, can we say that?

所以總和，20 加 16，數量，你要添加的容量，每年都非常相似，我們可以這麼說嗎？

For example, just using example is a 40k capacity by the end of this year and next year and next year about 80k?

舉個例子，只是用例子是今年年底40k，明年明年80k左右？

Allow me to say that the increase of -- total capacity increase next year, I think will be more than the conversion of 20 to 16.

請允許我說，明年總產能的增加，我認為將超過 20 到 16 的轉換。

Okay, Andrew, I think you can go home and work out your numbers.

好的，安德魯，我想你可以回家算出你的數字了。

The reason I asked this question is because I assume one customer take all your 50% of your capacity on 20.

我問這個問題的原因是因為我假設一位客戶在 20 日占用了您全部 50% 的容量。

This customer is not going to use 20 next year, he is going to migrate 16 to another and you will have a totally -- the capacity next year, you don't need add that much on 20, unless you add additional 20 nanometer capacity.

這位客戶明年不會使用 20，他將把 16 遷移到另一個，您將擁有一個完全 -- 明年的容量，您不需要在 20 上添加那麼多，除非您添加額外的 20 納米容量.

I think the key is this customer will still continue to use 20 SoC next year.

我認為關鍵是這個客戶明年仍然會繼續使用 20 SoC。

That's right.

這是正確的。

And Andrew, well --

還有安德魯，嗯——

That's clear enough.

這很清楚。

The second question I have is, when you calculate US dollars per smartphone, do you calculate based on the shares you have or you use the total value divide by the global smartphone shipment?

我的第二個問題是，當您計算每部智能手機的美元時，您是根據您擁有的份額計算還是使用總價值除以全球智能手機出貨量？

Yes, we use the total TSMC wafer revenue, divided by global smartphone shipment.

是的，我們使用台積電晶圓總收入除以全球智能手機出貨量。

That's why the high-end side, if you gain shares then your ASPs change a lot?

這就是為什麼高端方面，如果您獲得份額，那麼您的平均售價會發生很大變化？

Yes.

是的。

That includes the silicon content increase and also the share increase.

這包括矽含量的增加以及份額的增加。

I cannot distinguish which portion is how much at this point.

在這一點上，我無法區分哪個部分是多少。

Well based on our calculation, it should be much higher than $8.

那麼根據我們的計算，它應該遠高於 8 美元。

Maybe your number is correct and they will be very happy, yes.

也許你的號碼是正確的，他們會很高興，是的。

Average, total average?

平均，總平均？

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

I will check with my staff.

我會和我的工作人員核實。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

William Dong, UBS.

威廉·董，瑞銀。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

My quick question is, I think in terms of competitive landscape there is always a lot of talk about design portability.

我的快速問題是，我認為就競爭格局而言，總是有很多關於設計可移植性的討論。

Obviously, I think your competitor will try to come after your clients next year very aggressively.

顯然，我認為你的競爭對手明年會非常積極地追趕你的客戶。

So, I wanted to just check what is your view on design portability and is it a realistic threat as sort of with the move from 20 to 16, we're using the same design rule.

因此，我想檢查一下您對設計可移植性的看法，以及從 20 到 16 的轉變是否會構成現實威脅，我們使用相同的設計規則。

Does that really mean that your competitors can actually try to get some of these customers?

這是否真的意味著您的競爭對手實際上可以嘗試獲得其中一些客戶？

All right.

好的。

So William's question is with respect to design portability, in the sense that if 20 nanometer and 16 nanometer share the same design rule, will we open the window for our competition to learn something about our 20 nanometer design rule and then compete with us on 16 nanometer?

所以威廉的問題是關於設計的可移植性，如果 20 納米和 16 納米共享相同的設計規則，我們是否會為我們的比賽打開窗口以了解我們的 20 納米設計規則，然後在 16 上與我們競爭納米？

Let me answer the question.

讓我回答這個問題。

First, 20 SoC and 16 FinFET are totally different device structure.

首先，20 SoC 和 16 FinFET 是完全不同的器件結構。

Even the back-end design rule are similar, you cannot port one to the other easily.

即使後端設計規則相似，您也不能輕易將一個移植到另一個。

No, it won't be easy.

不，這並不容易。

And what's your second question?

你的第二個問題是什麼？

Okay.

好的。

So, I guess, from 20 to 16 it's difficult, but in terms of perhaps you having 16, your competitor is having 16 nanometer as well, obviously I think there has been some talk in the market about them having some ability to port designs.

所以，我想，從 20 到 16 是很困難的，但就你可能有 16 而言，你的競爭對手也有 16 納米，顯然我認為市場上有一些關於他們具有移植設計能力的討論。

Do you think that's a realistic threat or is that really just lot of wishful thinking?

你認為這是一個現實的威脅，還是真的只是一廂情願？

Well, Mark already answered this kind of question saying that porting from one foundry to the other foundry you are getting harder and harder.

好吧，Mark 已經回答了這種問題，他說從一個代工廠移植到另一個代工廠變得越來越難。

The real reason is all the device characteristic right now is related to the strain, all those kind of things, which you cannot just copy.

真正的原因是現在所有的設備特性都與應變有關，所有那些你不能複制的東西。

You cannot de-layer or you cannot do the reverse engineering to look at it what is the device structure and get the same kind of IC characteristic.

你不能去層或者你不能做逆向工程來查看它是什麼器件結構並獲得相同的IC特性。

So, it's quite very hard -- actually very hard.

所以，這非常非常難——實際上非常難。

Okay, let me answer.

好吧，我來回答。

The porting it happens and I just want to make two points.

移植它發生了，我只想說明兩點。

We just have to live with it, deal with it.

我們只需要忍受它，處理它。

Let me point out two points.

讓我指出兩點。

One is porting is cost more and more nowadays for this generation.

一個是移植對於這一代人來說成本越來越高。

I think it takes a lot of R&D resources to do that.

我認為這需要大量的研發資源來做到這一點。

Secondly, we just have to do better 16 technology.

其次，我們只需要把16技術做得更好。

There are reasons to do that, because, first of all, we ramp 20 SoC massively this year and lot of learnings, a lot of process window control, a lot of design and collaboration with our customer, we will build ahead of our competitor.

這樣做是有理由的，因為首先，我們今年大規模增加了 20 個 SoC，並且通過大量學習、大量工藝窗口控制、大量設計以及與客戶的協作，我們將領先於競爭對手。

So we believe our 16 FinFET right on top of our 20 SoC, given they are same design rule, will be more mature at the time compared with our competitor.

因此，我們相信我們的 16 FinFET 位於我們的 20 SoC 之上，鑑於它們具有相同的設計規則，與我們的競爭對手相比，當時將更加成熟。

Dan Heyler, Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

美國銀行美林證券的丹·海勒。

I just wanted to come back a little bit to the 16 discussion.

我只是想回到 16 的討論。

Again and again this industry encounters some big node changes and 28 saw problems that TSMC didn't anticipate and your customers did not anticipate when 28 was first rolled out.

這個行業一次又一次地遇到了一些重大的節點變化，28 看到了台積電沒有預料到的問題，而您的客戶在 28 首次推出時也沒有預料到。

How should we think about 16 and this is really unchartered territory?

我們應該如何看待 16，這真的是一個未知的領域？

It is a totally new device structure.

這是一種全新的設備結構。

Should we be a little more conservative on the possible unknowns coming in and that this could easily be pushed out say a few quarters?

我們是否應該對可能出現的未知數更加保守一點，並且這很容易被推遲幾個季度？

How much are you really setting expectations here very high that you can have 16 in the market?

你真的把期望設定得非常高，你可以在市場上擁有 16 個嗎？

Should we be thinking of this as a pretty uncertain node given how early it is?

考慮到它有多早，我們是否應該將其視為一個非常不確定的節點？

Thank you.

謝謝你。

I think this is your comment.

我想這是你的評論。

We'll accept that and think.

我們會接受並思考。

I think at this point we develop our technology, we can only make sure our technology do not stand in the way.

我認為在這一點上我們開發我們的技術，我們只能確保我們的技術不會妨礙我們。

When customer has need, for product needs we will be there, and mature, and support their business with enough capacity, okay.

當客戶有需求時，對於產品需求，我們將在那裡，成熟，並以足夠的能力支持他們的業務，好吧。

As I mentioned earlier, the industry -- market does change, for example, from 32 bit to 64 bit.

正如我之前提到的，行業——市場確實發生了變化，例如，從 32 位到 64 位。

That does sway somehow the schedule of 16 FinFET.

這確實以某種方式影響了 16 FinFET 的時間表。

But today I really talk about our readiness as to how much real business, and we will let you know when we do the next year's financial forecast.

但是今天我真的要談論我們準備好多少真正的業務，我們會在我們做明年的財務預測時讓你知道。

Just to be clear, a follow-up, just to be clear that sort of -- kind of we should start to see volumes in first half 2015 where we would start to see a few percentage of revenue, based on your current expectations, few percentage contribution by second quarter next year, is that fair?

需要明確的是，後續行動，只是為了明確那種——我們應該開始看到 2015 年上半年的銷量，根據您目前的預期，我們將開始看到收入的幾個百分比，很少明年第二季度的百分比貢獻，公平嗎？

Lora is checking.

洛拉正在檢查。

You mean the 16?

你是說16？

Yeah.

是的。

We w ill see some revenue in 2015.

我們將在 2015 年看到一些收入。

Good okay.

不錯不錯。

Setting the expectations low, that's good.

把期望值設低，這很好。

I want to follow up on this InFO, this is quite interesting.

我想跟進這個信息，這很有趣。

Could you just maybe elaborate a bit more on what exactly are you going to be attaching, so which devices are we talking about in terms of what - with CoWoS it was pretty much PLD companies were there and others, some baseband.

您能否詳細說明一下您將要附加的具體內容，所以我們在談論哪些設備 - 對於 CoWoS，幾乎有 PLD 公司在那裡，而其他公司則有一些基帶。

So what devices are you attaching on the initial generation between the different chips?

那麼，您在不同芯片之間的第一代產品中附加了哪些設備？

And second part of that question would be what kind of -- how many customers do you expect to manage to have in this area, because you start peddling lots of devices and lots of customers it gets really complicated, you start to look more like an OSAT.

這個問題的第二部分是什麼樣的——你希望在這個領域擁有多少客戶，因為你開始兜售很多設備和很多客戶，這變得非常複雜，你開始看起來更像一個奧薩特。

So I wonder if this is going to be a pretty small group of high volume products?

所以我想知道這是否會是一小部分大批量產品？

And finally on -- as you attach -- are you actually doing a chip attach or will you be doing only the wafer level activity and will you be having -- working with the OSATs to do the actual chip attach?

最後——當你連接時——你實際上是在做芯片連接，還是只做晶圓級的活動，你是否會與 OSAT 一起做實際的芯片連接？

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Dan, to answer your question, the InFO actually we're right now working on application processor together with memory dies.

丹，為了回答你的問題，我們現在正在研究應用處理器和內存芯片的信息。

That's good enough for you.

這對你來說已經足夠了。

I cannot say anything more than that.

我不能說更多。

We're working with mobile product customers and we did not -- we expect very high volume, but we did not with many, many customers as current status.

我們正在與移動產品客戶合作，但我們沒有——我們預計銷量會非常高，但我們並沒有像目前的情況那樣與很多很多客戶合作。

We're working on the wafer level process, stacking die, and couple of them, we're able to do the complete line all here.

我們正在研究晶圓級工藝，堆疊芯片，其中的幾個，我們能夠在這裡完成完整的生產線。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

All right.

好的。

We have a hand raised on the back of the room.

我們在房間的後面舉起了一隻手。

I think this is from a media.

我認為這是來自媒體。

Please say your name and the company you work for.

請說出您的姓名和您工作的公司。

I'm Mark from UDNTV.

我是來自 UDNTV 的馬克。

Just first congratulate on the TSMC on the very great quarter -- another great quarter.

首先祝賀台積電取得了非常棒的季度——又一個偉大的季度。

But I still have a -- just out of curiosity, I'm just wondering what the management team by now how is it they're managing that thing right now, because we're now obviously Morris is not here and I'm just wondering if that is a sign he is very confident that for both CEO right now here, and how do you divide work right now between Mark and C. C. just out of curiosity?

但是我仍然有一個 - 只是出於好奇，我只是想知道管理團隊現在如何管理這件事，因為我們現在顯然莫里斯不在這裡，我只是想知道這是否表明他對現在的兩位首席執行官非常有信心，以及出於好奇，您現在如何在 Mark 和 C. C. 之間分配工作？

And is TSMC shifting into a new generation management team?

台積電是否正在轉變為新一代管理團隊？

Well I'm delighted to work with C. C. Of course Chairman.

嗯，我很高興與 C. C. 當然是主席合作。

We three contact constantly to devise new initiative for the Company all the time.

我們三人不斷聯繫，時刻為公司設計新的舉措。

And the rest I think is for you to judge.

其餘的我認為由你來判斷。

But how open is Morris to both of your ideas to the Company?

但是，莫里斯對您對公司的這兩個想法持開放態度嗎？

I mean does he just let you guys do your expectation or does he still make the final decision?

我的意思是他只是讓你們做你的期望還是他仍然做出最終決定？

Of course we -- everybody contribute ideas.

當然，我們——每個人都貢獻自己的想法。

Of course, decision usually is made together and -- but more than often we find wisdom talking, discussing with Morris, our Chairman, and that's we learn and that's the way we want to grow and up to his expectation I guess.

當然，決策通常是一起做出的——但我們經常發現與我們的主席莫里斯交談、討論的智慧，這就是我們所學到的，這就是我們想要成長的方式，我猜這也是他的期望。

Yeah.

是的。

Alright, I think in the interest of time, we will conclude our conference here today.

好的，我想為了時間關係，我們今天將在這裡結束我們的會議。

Please be advised that the replay of the conference will be accessible within three hours from now.

請注意，從現在起三小時內將可以觀看會議的重播。

Transcript will become available 24 hours from now, both of which will be available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

成績單將在 24 小時後提供，兩者都將通過台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 提供。

Thank you for joining us today.

感謝您今天加入我們。

We hope you will join us again next quarter.

我們希望您能在下個季度再次加入我們。

Goodbye and have a good day.

再見，祝你有美好的一天。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.

此成績單中標記（翻譯）的部分由現場通話中的口譯員朗讀。

The interpreter was provided by the Company sponsoring this Event.

翻譯由主辦本次活動的公司提供。