台積電 ADR (TSM) 2014 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to TSMC's First Quarter 2014 Earnings Conference and Conference Call. This is Elizabeth Sun, TSMC's Director of Corporate Communications and your host for today. Today's event is webcast live at TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com.

歡迎參加台積電2014年第一季財報會議及電話會議。我是台積電企業傳播總監伊莉莎白·孫，也是今天的主持人。今天的活動在台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 上進行網路直播。

If you are joining us through the conference call, you're dialing lines are in listen-only mode. As this conference is being viewed by investors around the world, we will conduct the event in English only. The format for today's event will be as follows.

如果您透過電話會議加入我們，您的撥接線路將處於只聽模式。由於此次會議將受到全球投資者的關注，因此我們將僅以英語進行此活動。今天活動的形式如下。

First, TSMC's Senior Vice President and CFO, Ms. Lora Ho will summarize our operations in the first quarter 2014, followed by our guidance for the current quarter. Afterward TSMC's two Co-CEOs; Dr. Mark Liu and Dr. C.C. Wei will jointly provide a couple of key messages. Then we'll open both the floor and the line for the Q&A.

首先，台積電資深副總裁兼財務長何麗拉女士將總結我們2014年第一季的營運狀況，然後再介紹本季的業績指引。隨後台積電的兩位聯合執行長； Mark Liu 博士和 C.C. 博士魏先生將共同傳遞幾點重要訊息。然後我們將開放現場提問和線上提問。

For those participants on the call, if you do not yet have a copy of the press release, you may download it now from TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. Please also download the summary slides in relation to today's earnings conference presentation.

對於參加電話會議的人員，如果您尚未收到新聞稿，您可以立即從台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 下載。請同時下載與今天的收益會議報告相關的摘要投影片。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statement. Please refer to the Safe-Harbor notice that appears on our press release.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受重大風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。

Now, I would like to turn the podium to TSMC's CFO, Ms. Lora Ho.

現在，我想請台積電財務長何麗拉女士發言。

Thank you, Elizabeth. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I will start my presentation with financial highlights for the first quarter and followed by the guidance of the second quarter. You may have noted from the information we provided to you today, starting from this year, we have changed the wafer unit to 12-inch equivalent, as 12-inch accounts for the majority of our production capacity.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。大家下午好。感謝您今天加入我們。我的演講將從第一季的財務亮點開始，然後再介紹第二季的指引。從我們今天提供給大家的資訊中大家可能也注意到了，從今年開始，我們的晶圓單位已經改為12吋當量，因為我們的產能大部分是12吋。

The first quarter came out better than expected. Our revenue, gross margin and operating margins were all exceeded the revised guidance. In the first quarter, the demand for TSMC's wafer was much stronger than we've had initially predicted in mid-January. The strength came from customers' better fourth quarter results, which led to a more positive outlook for the whole year, prompted through the active replenishment of inventory from a very low base in the fourth quarter last year. We were able to capture the bigger market share of customers' upside demand. Thanks to the better performance and the high yield and reliability for our advance technologies.

第一季的表現優於預期。我們的收入、毛利率和營業利潤率都超過了修訂後的指引。第一季度，台積電晶圓的需求比我們在一月中旬最初預測的要強勁得多。這一強勁勢頭源於客戶第四季度業績表現更好，這為全年業績帶來了更樂觀的前景，而這得益於公司在去年第四季度非常低的基數上積極補充庫存。我們能夠佔據客戶上行需求的更大市場份額。這得歸功於我們先進的技術所帶來的更佳性能以及更高的產量和可靠性。

First quarter revenue increased 1.7% on a sequential basis and 11.6% on year-over-year basis, to reach TWD148 billion. Gross margin was 47.5%, up 3 percentage points from the fourth quarter last year, mainly due to higher capacity utilization, a favorable foreign exchange rate, offset by unfavorable inventory variation adjustments.

第一季營收達1,480億新台幣，季增1.7%，年增11.6%。毛利率為47.5%，較去年第四季上升3個百分點，主要由於產能利用率提高、匯率有利，但抵銷了不利的庫存變動調整。

Operating margin was 35.4%, up 2.6 percentage points from the fourth quarter. Non-op items was a small gain of TWD0.78 billion. Overall, the first quarter EPS was TWD1.85 and ROE was 21.9% in the first quarter.

營業利益率為35.4%，較第四季上升2.6個百分點。非經營項目小漲7.8億新台幣。整體而言，第一季度每股收益為1.85元，第一季度淨資產收益率為21.9%。

Let's take a look at the revenue by application. If you recall, the fourth quarter inventory correction was mostly serious in the communication-related applications. When customer demand came back in the first quarter, communication shows the strongest increase. Compared to the fourth quarter last year, communication increased 8%, computer increased 2%, and industrial-related revenue increased 2%, while consumer declined 14% during the first quarter.

我們來看看各應用的收入。如果你還記得的話，第四季的庫存調整在通訊相關的應用領域最為嚴重。當第一季客戶需求回升時，溝通顯示出最強勁的成長。與去年第四季相比，第一季通訊相關收入成長了8%，電腦相關收入成長了2%，工業相關收入成長了2%，而消費相關收入則下降了14%。

By technology, 28-nanometer revenue continued to grow and account for 34% of our total wafer revenue in the first quarter. 40-nanometer has a nice rebound, now represents 21% of our total wafer revenue. The two advanced technologies, 28-nanometer plus 45-nanometer, represented 55% of our first quarter total wafer revenue, increased from 51% a quarter ago.

按技術劃分，28奈米收入持續成長，佔第一季我們晶圓總收入的34%。40奈米出現了良好的反彈，現在占我們晶圓總收入的21％。28奈米和45奈米這兩項先進技術占我們第一季晶圓總收入的55%，高於上一季的51%。

Now let's move onto the balance sheet. Cash and marketable securities decreased TWD10 billion sequentially to TWD235 billion at the end of first quarter. Current liabilities decreased by TWD15 billion, mainly because of the decrease in accounts payable to equipment suppliers. Meanwhile we borrowed TWD9 billion in short-term loans for hedging purposes. Accounts receivable turnover days decreased three days to 45 days. Days of inventory increased to 52 days, reflecting the strong demand in the second quarter and the starting of a 20-nanometer ramp.

現在讓我們來看看資產負債表。現金與有價證券季減100億新台幣，至第一季末的2,350億新台幣。流動負債減少150億新台幣，主要因為應付設備供應商帳款減少。同時，我們借入90億新台幣的短期貸款用於避險。應收帳款週轉天數減少3天至45天。庫存天數增加至 52 天，反映出第二季的強勁需求和 20 奈米產能提升的開始。

Now let me make a few comments on cash flow and CapEx. During the first quarter, we generated TWD95 billion cash from operations, invested TWD115 billion in capital expenditures, and borrowed TWD9 billion short-term loans. At the end of the first quarter, our cash balance decreased TWD11 billion to TWD232 billion. Free cash flow for the first quarter was an outflow of TWD20 billion due to higher capital expenditure in the first quarter.

現在，讓我對現金流和資本支出發表一些評論。第一季度，公司經營活動產生的現金流量為950億新台幣，資本支出為1,150億新台幣，短期貸款為90億新台幣。截至第一季末，我們的現金餘額減少110億新台幣至2,320億新台幣。由於第一季資本支出增加，第一季自由現金流流出200億新台幣。

Our CapEx and capacity; first quarter CapEx was $3.8 billion. We expect 2014 CapEx will be about $10 billion, with front-end loaded pattern. About 70% of the budget will be spent in the first half to support the quick ramping of 20-nanometer. On a full-year basis, we plan to increase our capacity by 10% from 2013.

我們的資本支出和產能；第一季的資本支出為38億美元。我們預計2014年的資本支出將約為100億美元，採用前端加載模式。約70%的預算將在上半年投入，以支持20奈米技術的快速發展。從全年來看，我們計劃從2013年起將產能提高10%。

So the total annual capacity will reach 8 million 12-inch equivalent wafers.

總產能將達到年產800萬片12吋當量晶圓。

So I have finished my report on the financial part. Now let me turn into the second quarter outlook. Based on our current business outlook and a forecast exchange rate of TWD30.10, we expect our second quarter revenue to be between TWD180 billion and TWD183 billion. This would translate into around 22% quarter-over-quarter increase.

我已經完成了財務部分的報告。現在我來談談第二季的展望。根據我們目前的業務前景和預測匯率30.10新台幣，我們預計第二季營收將在1800億至1830億新台幣之間。這意味著季度環比增長約 22%。

On the margin side, we expect the second quarter gross margins to be between 47.5% and 49.5%, and operating margins to be between 36.5% and 38.5%. At a January Investor Conference I talked about the tax rate for the year will be about 13% and the second quarter will carry more burdens. Let me give you an update this time. According to the accounting principle, when shareholder approves the earnings distribution in June, we need to accrue the 10% retained earning tax for the undistributed earnings. Therefore our second quarter tax rate will go up to 21%, and then fall back to the normal level of around 11% in the third and fourth quarter. Full-year tax rate, however, will still be 13%. This concludes my remarks. Let me turn the podium to our Co-CEOs, Mark and C.C. for their comments.

利潤率方面，我們預期第二季毛利率在 47.5% 至 49.5% 之間，營業利潤率在 36.5% 至 38.5% 之間。我在一月份的投資者會議上談到了今年的稅率將在13％左右，並且第二季的負擔會更重。這次讓我向你提供最新進展。根據會計原則，當股東在六月批准盈餘分配時，我們需要對未分配盈餘提列10%的留存盈餘稅。因此我們的第二季稅率將上升到21%，然後在第三季和第四季回落到11%左右的正常水準。不過全年稅率仍為13%。我的發言到此結束。請容許我把講台轉向我們的聯合執行長馬克 (Mark) 和 C.C.徵求他們的意見。

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Let me cover the first three items on the agenda. Let me begin by saying our 2014 market outlook has improved since our mid January Investor Conference. The first quarter is typically a slow season for our customers and for TSMC. However, since mid January, we started to see strong orders across all segments. We now have an improved demand outlook from the following three perspectives.

女士們、先生們，午安。讓我介紹一下議程上的前三項。首先我要說的是，自 1 月中旬投資者會議以來，我們對 2014 年的市場前景已經改善。第一季對於我們的客戶和台積電來說通常是一個淡季。然而，自 1 月中旬以來，我們開始看到各部門的訂單強勁。現在，我們從以下三個角度看到了需求前景的改善。

First, the demand in smartphone appears healthier than we expected last quarter. The acceleration of LTE infrastructure buildup, LTE smartphone proliferation and the increased silicon content of smartphones improved our demand outlook. The silicon content increase has come with multi-core 64-bit application processor, multimode baseband, multiband RF transceivers, image sensors, MEMS, near-field communications and finger prints; these all are included in the smartphone.

首先，智慧型手機的需求似乎比我們上季預期的要強勁。LTE基礎設施建設的加速、LTE智慧型手機的普及以及智慧型手機矽含量的增加改善了我們的需求前景。矽含量的增加伴隨著多核心64位元應用處理器、多模基頻、多頻段射頻收發器、影像感測器、MEMS、近場通訊和指紋；這些都包含在智慧型手機中。

The second, TSMC's 28-nanometer technology, performance and quality suffice to field more of those customers' demand. Fabless DOI was substantially below seasonal when we exited 4Q last year. So we still expect fabless DOI will be below seasonal in 1Q 2014. So, for second quarter of 2014, we expect our demand will continue to be strong and above seasonal in all major applications.

第二，台積電的28奈米技術、性能和品質足以滿足更多客戶的需求。當我們去年第四季結束時，無晶圓廠的 DOI 大大低於季節性水準。因此我們仍預計2014年第一季無晶圓廠的DOI將低於季節性水準。因此，對於 2014 年第二季度，我們預計所有主要應用領域的需求將持續保持強勁且高於季節性。

Now I'll cover the market supply chain and demand of second half and full year for 2014. Since first quarter fabless DOI is below seasonal, the second quarter demand on us is unseasonably strong, but we expect fabless DOI will return to seasonal level at mid 2014. Therefore, our second half demand would be more normal.

以下我來講一下2014年下半年和全年的市場供應鏈和需求狀況。由於第一季無晶圓廠 DOI 低於季節性水平，第二季我們的需求異常強勁，但我們預計無晶圓廠 DOI 將在 2014 年中期恢復到季節性水平。因此我們下半年的需求會更加正常。

TSMC will gain 28-nanometer market share with 28-nanometer high-K metal gate transition in the second half of 2014. TSMC also expects to gain overall foundry market share in the second half 2014 when we ramp up 20 SoC in the second half 2014. However, since our first quarter and second quarter will establish a higher base. The quarter-to-quarter growth of third quarter and fourth quarter will be -- will both be positive, but will be more moderate than our second quarter. For the full year of 2014, our outlook improved from last quarter as follows.

台積電將在2014年下半年以28奈米高K金屬閘極轉型贏得28奈米市場份額。台積電也預計，2014 年下半年當我們投產 20 款 SoC 時，整體代工市佔率也將有所提升。但是，由於我們的第一季和第二季將建立更高的基數。第三季和第四季的季度環比成長都將是正成長，但將比第二季更為溫和。對於 2014 年全年，我們的展望較上一季有所改善，具體如下。

Semiconductor revenue growth from 5% to 7%. Fabless revenue growth from 8% to 9%. Foundry revenue growth from 10% to 14%. So our growth for full year of 2014 will be higher than the forecasted foundry growth by several percentage points.

半導體收入成長5%至7%。無晶圓廠收入成長率從 8% 上升至 9%。代工收入成長10%至14%。因此，我們2014年全年的成長將比預測的代工成長高出幾個百分點。

Then I cover the updates on 16 FinFET, 16 FinFET plus and our 10 FinFET. First, we have two general offers for customers, 16 FinFET and 16 FinFET plus. 16 FinFET plus offers 15% speed improvement, the same total power, compared to 16 FinFET. More importantly, 16 FinFET plus offers 30% total power reduction at the same speed, compared to 16 FinFET.

然後我介紹了 16 FinFET、16 FinFET plus 和我們的 10 FinFET 的更新。首先，我們為客戶提供兩種通用產品：16 FinFET 和 16 FinFET plus。與 16 FinFET 相比，16 FinFET plus 速度提高了 15%，總功率相同。更重要的是，與 16 FinFET 相比，16 FinFET plus 在相同速度下可將總功率降低 30%。

Our 16 FinFET plus matches the highest performance among all available 16-nanometer and 14-nanometer technologies in the market today. Compared to our own 20 SoC, 16 FinFET plus offers 40% speed improvement. The design rules of 16 FinFET and 16 FinFET plus are the same; IPs are compatible.

我們的 16 FinFET plus 具有當今市場上所有 16 奈米和 14 奈米技術中的最高性能。與我們自己的 20 SoC 相比，16 FinFET plus 的速度提高了 40%。16 FinFET 和 16 FinFET plus 的設計規則相同； IP 相容。

We will receive our first customer product tapeout this month. About 15 products planned for 2014, another about 45 in 2015. Volume production is planned in 2015. Since 95% tools of 16 and 20 are common, we will ramp them in the same gigafabs in TSMC. 16 FinFET yield learning curve is very steep today and has already caught up with 20 SoC. This is a unique advantage in TSMC 16-nanometer.

本月我們將收到第一個客戶產品的流片。2014 年計畫推出約 15 種產品，2015 年將再推出約 45 種產品。計劃於 2015 年量產。由於95%的16和20工具都是通用的，我們將在台積電的相同千兆晶圓廠中生產它們。16 FinFET 的良率學習曲線如今非常陡峭，已經趕上了 20 SoC。這是台積電16奈米得天獨厚的優點。

For 10 FinFET, 10 FinFET offer TSMC's third generation FinFET transistor, designed to meet the power and the performance requirement of mobile computing devices. 10 FinFET will offer greater than 25% speed improvement, the same total power, compared to 16 FinFET plus. More importantly, 10 FinFET offer greater than 45% total power reduction at the same speed, compared to 16 FinFET plus.

對於 10 FinFET，10 FinFET 提供台積電的第三代 FinFET 電晶體，旨在滿足行動運算設備的功率和性能要求。與 16 個 FinFET plus 相比，10 個 FinFET 將提供超過 25% 的速度提升，而總功率相同。更重要的是，與 16 FinFET 以上相比，10 FinFET 在相同速度下可將總功率降低 45% 以上。

10 FinFET will offer 2.2X of density improvement over its previous generation, 16 FinFET plus. So, currently, 10 FinFET development progress is well on track, but risk production will be in 4Q 2015. Above are the key messages on three items. Thank you.

10 FinFET 將比上一代 16 FinFET plus 密度提高 2.2 倍。因此，目前，10 FinFET 開發進度順利，但風險生產將在 2015 年第 4 季進行。以上是三項內容的關鍵資訊。謝謝。

Thank you, Mark. And following Mark, there will be two remarks made by C.C. Wei.

謝謝你，馬克。繼馬克之後，C.C. 也將發表兩點演講。韋。

Thank you, Elizabeth. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Following Mark's exciting forecast and our second quarter and second half of year 2014, I would like to take this opportunity to share with you the two topics with you; namely, the 20 SoC ramp and TSMC's advance assembly solution to our customer. First, I will brief you on the status of 20 SoC ramp.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。女士們、先生們，午安。繼馬克令人興奮的預測以及我們 2014 年第二季度和下半年之後，我想藉此機會與大家分享兩個主題；即20 SoC的量產和台積電向客戶提供的先進組裝解決方案。首先，我將簡單介紹一下 20 SoC 的進展。

Let me recap what we had said in the last meeting here. We started 20 SoC production in January this year and by fourth quarter of this year, the 20 SoC will account for 20% of the quarterly revenue -- wafer revenue. And for the whole year of 2014 we expect 20 SoC will be about 10% of our total wafer revenue of the year of 2014, of course. All these expectations remain the same today.

讓我回顧一下我們上次會議中討論的內容。我們在今年一月開始生產20片SoC，到今年第四季度，20片SoC將佔季度收入（晶圓收入）的20%。當然，就 2014 年全年而言，我們預計 20 SoC 將約占我們 2014 年晶圓總收入的 10%。所有這些期望今天依然沒有改變。

Now, there are some major achievement I would like to share with you. First, on the ramping speed. 20 SoC by far is the fastest ramping in TSMC's history. Of course, this fast ramp is to meet customers' strong demand. And I believe this production of 20 SoC in TSMC represents one of the largest mobilization in semiconductor history. Let me share with some numbers, so you can have a snapshot on this ramp.

現在我想與大家分享一些主要成就。第一，關於爬坡速度。到目前為止，20 SoC 是台積電史上最快的量產。當然，這次快速爬坡是為了滿足顧客的強烈需求。我相信，台積電此次生產20顆SoC是半導體史上最大規模的動員之一。讓我分享一些數字，以便您可以對這個坡道有一個大致的了解。

In about one year's time we have built a manufacturing team of 4,600 engineers and 2,000 operators in two fabs; Fab 14 in Tainan and Fab 12 in Hsinchu. More impressively, in the same time period, close to one thousand engineer has been relocated among TSMC's fabs in Hsinchu, Taichung and Tainan. All these are prepared for the 20 SoC's ramp-up. This magnitude of mobilization, I believe, is not an easy job. We move people around that show our strength in manufacturing and this highly mobilization is not moving the tool or just a handful around. We're talking about we're moving the engineer and operator among TSMC's fabs. In the meanwhile, we have installed more than 1,500 major tools for this 20 SoC ramp.

在大約一年的時間內，我們在兩座晶圓廠建立了一支由 4,600 名工程師和 2,000 名操作員組成的製造團隊； Fab 14 位於台南，Fab 12 位於新竹。更令人印象深刻的是，在同一時間段內，台積電在新竹、台中、台南三地的晶圓廠之間調動了近千名工程師。所有這些都是為了20 SoC的加速做好了準備。我相信，如此規模的動員不是一件容易的事。我們調動人員來展示我們在製造業的實力，這種高度動員並不是調動工具或只是調動少數人。我們正在討論將工程師和操作員調往台積電的晶圓廠。同時，我們為這20個SoC坡道安裝了1,500多個主要工具。

Of course, the faster ramp has done with a very good device reliability and a very good wafer defect density. Without those, the fast ramp will make no sense. Now how important are these 20 SoC ramp? Well we knew that 28 nanometer provided the engine of TSMC's profitable growth in the years of 2012 and 2013 and similarly, we expect 20 SoC will provide the engine of TSMC's profitable growth in year 2014 and 2015.

當然，更快的產能提升帶來了非常好的裝置可靠性和非常好的晶圓缺陷密度。如果沒有這些，快速發展就毫無意義。那麼這 20 個 SoC 坡道有多重要呢？我們知道，28 奈米是台積電 2012 年和 2013 年獲利成長的引擎，同樣，我們預計 20 SoC 也將成為台積電 2014 年和 2015 年獲利成長的引擎。

Now let me switch gear to advanced assembly technologies. The purpose of -- for us to develop advanced assembly technology is to provide our customer a better performance and a lower power consumption, while at a lower cost as compared to the previous assembly solution. For example, we have developed CoWoS and CoWoS has been developed to connect two dies or more dies together to have a very high performance and a very low power consumption and today CoWoS is in a small volume production already. However, the cost structure of CoWoS has made CoWoS only suitable for some very high performance applications and the products. To address the cost structure issue and for those mobile -- very large volume mobile devices, we have developed a derivative technology called InFO; that stands for integrated fan-out.

現在讓我轉到高級裝配技術上。我們開發先進組裝技術的目的是為客戶提供更好的性能和更低的功耗，同時與先前的組裝解決方案相比成本更低。例如，我們開發了 CoWoS，CoWoS 可以將兩個或多個晶片連接在一起，實現非常高的性能和非常低的功耗，目前 CoWoS 已經實現小批量生產。然而CoWoS的成本結構使得CoWoS僅適用於一些非常高效能的應用和產品。為了解決成本結構問題以及對於那些移動——非常大容量的行動設備，我們開發了一種稱為 InFO 的衍生技術；代表整合式扇出 (integrated fan-out)。

InFO will have significant lower cost as compared to CoWoS and at the same time, InFO also can have the same capability to connect multiple dies together just as the CoWoS did. Currently, we're working with major customers and the InFO, to incorporate this structure into their future product. We have delivered many functional dies to our customers already and the process optimization are ongoing.

與CoWoS相比，InFO的成本要低得多，同時，InFO還能像CoWoS一樣具有將多個晶片連接在一起的能力。目前，我們正在與主要客戶和 InFO 合作，將這種結構納入他們未來的產品中。我們已經向客戶交付了許多功能性模具，並且流程優化正在進行中。

In fact, we are very excited about TSMC's advanced assembly technology development as we're building a innovative solution for our customers product, which requires high performance, lower power consumption and at a very reasonable cost structure.

事實上，我們對台積電先進的組裝技術發展感到非常興奮，因為我們正在為客戶的產品建立創新的解決方案，該解決方案需要高效能、低功耗和非常合理的成本結構。

Now let me sum up today's key message which is presented by Mark and myself. First, we have revised up2014 forecast for the semiconductor industry and for foundry segment, as our outlook has become very positive. More importantly, TSMC will be able to strongly outperform our foundry peers and we will continue to increase our market segment share as we have done in the past four years. The demand for 28 nanometer and 20 nanometer will provide a foundation for our profitable growth and the strength to outperform this year. 20 SoC's ramp is a new record. That is one of the largest mobilization in the semiconductor industry. Our 16 FinFET, especially 16 FinFET plus, are highly competitive and we have a very similar good defect density performance already with -- of course just like Mark said, it's 95% similar to 20 SoC, which we already have a very good defect density performance.

現在，讓我總結一下馬克和我今天提出的關鍵訊息。首先，我們上調了對半導體產業和晶圓代工部門的2014年預測，因為我們的前景變得非常樂觀。更重要的是，台積電將能夠強勁超越我們的代工同行，並且我們將像過去四年一樣繼續增加我們的市場份額。28奈米和20奈米的需求將為我們的獲利成長和今年超越提供基礎。20 SoC 的爬坡創下了新紀錄。這是半導體產業最大規模的動員之一。我們的 16 FinFET，特別是 16 FinFET plus，具有很強的競爭力，而且我們已經具有非常相似的良好缺陷密度性能——當然，就像馬克說的，它與 20 SoC 相似度為 95%，我們已經具有非常好的缺陷密度性能。

Our 10 nanometer technology development are on track and we're working on the cost effective advanced assembly solution InFO for our large volume mobile devices. And we believe all these activities will pave the way for our continued profitable course for the next few years.

我們的 10 奈米技術開發正在按計劃進行，我們正在為大容量行動裝置開發具有成本效益的先進組裝解決方案 InFO。我們相信，所有這些活動將為我們未來幾年繼續盈利鋪平道路。

This ends our prepared remarks. Thank you very much.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。非常感謝。

Thank you C.C. This concludes our prepared statements. Before we begin the Q&A session, I would like to remind everybody to limit your questions to no more than two at a time, so that we can allow all participants an opportunity to ask questions. Questions will be taken both from the floor and from the line. Should you wish to raise your question in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question.

謝謝你，C.C。我們的準備好的聲明到此結束。在我們開始問答環節之前，我想提醒大家每次提問的次數不要超過兩個，以便我們讓所有參與者都有機會提問。問題將從現場和現場兩方面進行回答。如果您想用中文提出問題，我會將其翻譯成英文，然後我們的管理層才會回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Donald Lu, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的唐納德·盧。

(interpreted) First question Donald has is with respect to smartphone semiconductor content. He likes to know what is the semiconductor content for the smartphone on average in 2013 and 2014 and what's the semiconductor content to TSMC for a smartphone in 2013 and 2014 and if we could do that, he also want us to break it down into low end and high end smartphones. That's the first question. The second question is with respect to 16-FinFET progress. According to Donald, ASML said they saw mobile FinFET delayed and he was wondering whether the delay is caused by TSMC or another company?

（翻譯）唐納德的第一個問題是關於智慧型手機半導體內容。他想知道 2013 年和 2014 年智慧型手機的平均半導體含量是多少，以及 2013 年和 2014 年台積電智慧型手機的半導體含量是多少，如果我們可以做到這一點，他還希望我們將其細分為低階和高階智慧型手機。這是第一個問題。第二個問題是關於16-FinFET的進展。據 Donald 透露，ASML 表示他們發現行動 FinFET 延遲了，他想知道這種延遲是台積電還是其他公司造成的？

Okay. I probably cannot give you as detailed numbers as you wish, but let me give you some numbers from my perspective, from my granularity. For the smartphone total, in 2013, TSMC's average wafer value per unit, per unit, is $7 last year, it will increase to about $8. So this increase, of course, include the silicon content increase as well as the market share increase. But I cannot -- at this point I cannot distinguish those two. But this increase significantly stands out -- is in the high-end smartphone. High-end smartphone, last year, we are about $10.8 per unit in average. This year we expect to be $13.9. So that's a major increase. For the mid-end and low-end we see similar level. Last year was about $6 and this year will also be $6 and low end is 3.6 and this year will be 3.6 also.

好的。我可能無法提供如您所願的那麼詳細的數字，但讓我從我的角度、從我的粒度給您一些數字。以智慧型手機總量來說，2013年台積電每單位晶圓的平均價值是7美元，去年則上升到8美元左右。因此，這種成長當然包括矽含量的增加以及市場佔有率的增加。但我不能——目前我無法區分這兩者。但這一增幅明顯突出——是在高階智慧型手機領域。高階智慧型手機，去年我們的平均價格約為每部10.8美元。今年我們預計為 13.9 美元。所以這是一個大幅的成長。對於中端和低端，我們看到類似的水平。去年約為 6 美元，今年也將是 6 美元，低端是 3.6，今年也將是 3.6。

However, we do see the low-end performance spec continue increasing. Mid-end and low-end smartphones continue increasing and we see a lot of features, regardless of mid-end or low-end, it's still increasing almost like the high-end of last year. So these are the perspective we can see now.

然而，我們確實看到低階性能規格持續提高。中階和低階智慧型手機持續成長，我們看到很多功能，無論中端或低端，其成長速度幾乎與去年的高端相當。這些就是我們現在可以看到的視角。

Secondly, about the ASML's message, I really don't know what he means. But let me give you some comment on that. If you talk about the FinFET technology difficulties, our I must tell you that our 16 FinFET technology development is well on track and our new improvement is well on track and we are working with customers closely and we expect to ramp up 2015. But I think one unique feature of our 16 FinFET is, our 16 FinFET has the same design rule, back-end design rule like 20. So, we can leverage all the new learning, all the massive work C.C had talked about in this year into next year 16 FinFET.

其次，關於ASML的消息，我真的不知道他是什麼意思。但請允許我對此發表一些評論。如果您談到FinFET技術的困難點，我必須告訴您，我們的16 FinFET技術開發進展順利，我們的新改進也進展順利，我們正在與客戶密切合作，預計2015年將實現加速。但我認為我們的 16 FinFET 的一個獨特之處是，我們的 16 FinFET 具有相同的設計規則，後端設計規則與 20 相同。因此，我們可以將所有新的知識、 C.C 今年談到的所有大規模工作運用到明年的 16 FinFET 中。

Secondly, if you observe the industry, mobile device industry, we do see in the past six months and we do see the 32 bit conversion to 64 bit in the processing after the Apple's announcement and that change, that transition, clearly indeed bring a lot of attention of the product development back to 28 and 20 nanometer product design. And indeed, we see increased demand on the 28 and 20 this year as well as next year. So that's the second message.

其次，如果你觀察產業，特別是行動裝置產業，我們在過去六個月中確實看到，在蘋果宣布這一消息後，處理速度從 32 位轉換為 64 位，而這種變化、這種轉變顯然確實將產品開發的注意力重新吸引到 28 奈米和 20 奈米產品設計上。事實上，我們看到今年和明年 28 日和 20 日的需求都會增加。這是第二條訊息。

And the last message I'd like to comment, well that is if you combine in 20 and 16 -- our Chairman has mentioned to you that combined 20 and 16 total revenues in the first eight quarters or first two years will be even bigger than the 28-nanometer revenue in total. So that I give you this above. Thank you.

我要評論的最後一條訊息是，如果將 20 和 16 結合起來——我們的董事長曾提到，前八個季度或前兩年的 20 和 16 總收入將比 28 奈米的總收入還要高。所以我給你上面這個。謝謝。

Randy Abrams, Credit Suisse.

瑞士信貸的蘭迪·艾布拉姆斯（Randy Abrams）。

I could ask a follow-up on the 16. Could you talk about the timing for the 16 regular version versus the plus version, if there is a difference on timing and also the customer adoptions? Then could you also talk about your expectation at this early stage on market share for the 16 node?

我可以就 16 號的問題進行後續詢問。您能否談談 16 個普通版本與 plus 版本的時間安排，以及是否有時間和客戶採用上的差異？那麼您能否談談對 16 節點市場佔有率的早期預期？

So Randy, your question is with respect to the timing, the availability of the 16 FinFET versus the 16 FinFET plus. And then the way the customer adopts, whether they're more adopting 16 FinFET or the 16 FinFET plus?

所以 Randy，你的問題是關於時間安排，以及 16 FinFET 與 16 FinFET plus 的可用性。然後客戶採用的方式，他們是否更多地採用 16 FinFET 還是 16 FinFET plus？

Okay. 16 FinFET plus will be qualified in September. But remember, we and our customer work on 16 FinFET design one and a half years before. So all the customer already design -- the design is on 16 FinFET, okay. So the customer -- for those customers when the product tape out -- for example, we have a first product tapeout this month, it will ride on 16 FinFET process. And for those customers taped out in the second half, mostly, I would say mostly, will be riding on the 16 FinFET plus. So I would think majority of our process customers will run on 16 FinFET plus. And looking into the volume for the next year, I would say that most of the product will be run on 16 FinFET plus. Okay, thank you.

好的。16 FinFET plus 將於 9 月獲得認證。但請記住，我們和我們的客戶在一年半前就開始進行16 FinFET 設計了。所以所有客戶都已經設計了 - 設計是在 16 FinFET 上，好的。因此，對於那些產品流片的客戶來說，例如，我們本月將有第一款產品流片，它將採用 16 FinFET 製程。對於下半年流片的客戶來說，我想說大多數情況下，他們都會採用 16 FinFET plus。因此我認為我們的大多數製程客戶將運行在 16 FinFET plus 上。展望明年的產量，我認為大多數產品將採用 16 FinFET 以上技術。好的，謝謝。

And the second question, if we look ahead to second half, you talked about normal -- kind of normal profile for growth. I mean if you could give a characterization, would that normally be for third quarter, fourth quarter, how you think about normal seasonal? And then in that context, for gross margin, given 20-nanometer is ramping and depreciation is going up, if potential of normal gross margins [can be had]?

第二個問題，如果我們展望下半年，您談到了正常的成長狀況。我的意思是，如果您可以給出一個特徵，那通常是針對第三季度、第四季度，您如何看待正常的季節？那麼在這種背景下，對於毛利率而言，考慮到 20 奈米正在加速生產並且折舊正在增加，是否能獲得正常毛利率的潛力？

Okay, you are talking about a second half growth will be normal. If I just give you the guidance of second quarter, we'll grow 22%. We believe "second half will be normal" means less than 22%. I cannot give you specific number, sorry. You also talked about the margins. I think last quarter a lot of analysts asking how can we maintain even better structure profitability, given 35% year-over-year depreciation increase. Let me elaborate and I will talk about 20-nanometer impact.

好的，您說的是下半年的成長將是正常的。如果我只給你第二季的預測，我們將成長 22%。我們認為「下半年將會正常」意味著低於22%。我無法給你具體的數字，抱歉。您還談到了利潤。我認為上個季度很多分析師都在問，在折舊額年增 35% 的情況下，我們如何保持更好的結構獲利能力。讓我詳細闡述一下，我將談論 20 奈米的影響。

The reasons we can improve structural gross profitability are the following. Number one, you see the 35% increase in depreciation that's on dollar to dollar, but we have also increased 10% capacity. So, if you divide that by unit basis, actual depreciation on a whole basis go up about 22%. It's number one. Number two, depreciation accounts for about half of our manufacturing cost. We have another half. That's basically the variable cost, these are material and other fixed cost. We work extremely hard to drive those costs down. So with very good progress. With that, along with a better blended ASP, thanks to the technology migrations and our higher yield and better performance, we are able to raise the overall corporate SGM level.

我們可以提高結構性毛利率的原因如下。第一，你會看到折舊費以美元計算增加了 35%，但我們的產能也增加了 10%。因此，如果您按單位基礎除以它，則整體實際折舊將增加約 22%。這是第一名。第二，折舊約占我們製造成本的一半。我們還有另一半。這基本上是變動成本，包括材料成本和其他固定成本。我們非常努力地降低這些成本。因此進展非常好。有了這一點，再加上更好的混合 ASP，得益於技術遷移和更高的產量和更好的效能，我們能夠提高整體企業 SGM 水準。

With the ramping of 20-nanometer, which just started in a second quarter, we will have a very, very small volume shipment. We'll have much more volume in the third and fourth quarter at any new nodes, starting with low margin. So, we expect there will be some dilution to corporate level margin starting from second quarter. The magnitude of that, it will impact by 1% in the second quarter. It will be slightly bigger than 1%, will be a very low single-digit impact on our second half. For the whole year, we still expect to see a slightly higher SGM compared to last year.

隨著第二季剛開始的 20 奈米製程的量產，我們的出貨量將會非常非常小。從低利潤開始，我們在第三季和第四季在任何新節點上的交易量都會大幅增加。因此，我們預計從第二季開始公司層面的利潤率會有所下降。其影響程度將對第二季造成 1% 的影響。它將略大於 1%，對我們的下半年的影響將是一個非常低的個位數。就全年而言，我們仍預計 SGM 將比去年略有上升。

Dan Heyler, Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

美銀美林的 Dan Heyler。

Thanks. Good afternoon. Thanks for all the clarifications on 20 and 16. It's very helpful. I now want to follow up on Donald's questions on the mobile numbers that you put out, which were helpful. That's a very significant increase in the high-end content per phone for TSMC in terms of market share. Congratulations there. I wanted to talk more about your mid-end number. I am a little bit surprised to see that you talked about the mid-end phones being basically flat, but you also commented that the specs are increasing for mid to low-end phones. So, would that suggest that there is significant pricing pressure and you're not benefiting from that content increase? Thanks.

謝謝。午安.感謝您對 20 和 16 的所有澄清。這非常有幫助。現在我想跟進唐納德關於您提供的手機號碼的問題，這些問題很有幫助。這對於台積電的市場份額而言，意味著每部手機的高端內容的顯著提升。恭喜你。我想進一步談談您的中端數字。我有點驚訝地看到您談到中階手機基本上持平，但您也評論說中低階手機的規格正在提升。那麼，這是否意味著存在巨大的定價壓力，而您沒有從內容增加中受益？謝謝。

This is the number for the full year. So the current we can see is from 5.9 to 6. So, I really cannot distinguish the silicon content versus the market share. I think we will hold our market share as we had before. Price, as you know, is always there, yeah.

這是全年的數字。因此，我們目前可以看到的是5.9到6。所以，我真的無法區分矽含量和市佔率。我認為我們將保持和以前一樣的市場份額。是的，如你所知，價格總是在那裡。

Okay. Yeah, I think that mid-end market is where there's significant units in terms of -- globally it represents the biggest part of the units and I am amazed how much that content is increasing the mid-end phone. So, I was a little surprised as to why you're not seeing your dollar value in the mid-end market go up more. Is that maybe happening in the second half of the year in 2014 or 2015? So, how should we think about that?

好的。是的，我認為中階市場是擁有大量銷售的地方——從全球來看，它佔據了銷量的最大份額，而我對中階手機銷量的成長幅度感到驚訝。因此，我有點驚訝為什麼你沒有看到中端市場的美元價值進一步上漲。這可能發生在 2014 年或 2015 年下半年嗎？那麼，我們該如何看待這個問題呢？

I think it has to do with 20 SoC also, which is mostly second half.

我認為它也與 20 SoC 有關，主要是後半部分。

Dan, do you want to release your microphone?

丹，你想釋放你的麥克風嗎？

Well, they were chatting. I thought C.C. was going to comment there. No, I will not give up my microphone. I have one more question. I wanted ask a bit about -- if you could elaborate on what's your feeling of the progress on EUV, if you think it's coming on slowly or are we still kind of treading water and your latest best estimate on when there would be an insertion into your progress, again, timing? Thanks.

嗯，他們正在聊天。我以為是 C.C。正要在那裡發表評論。不，我不會放棄我的麥克風。我還有一個問題。我想問一點——您能否詳細說明一下您對 EUV 進展的看法，您是否認為它進展緩慢，或者我們是否仍在原地踏步，以及您對何時可以將其納入您的進展的最新最佳估計，再次說明時間？謝謝。

No. I think we work very closely with ASML. So, their comment about EUV yesterday, I think, we hold this same perspective. Okay, today, of course, EUV is not up to the production spec. Actually the most recent breakthrough was a 30 watt and now they a have higher 80 watt machine that we're still working toward that goal. So -- and also the same as Peter had mentioned yesterday that EUV will not be inserted in 10 nanometer at the start, because it will slower the pass-through window. So we, however -- our EUV team is still continuously working on EUV, hopefully to insert a few layers after the 10 nanometer process start to qualify as a follow up process simplification. Okay. And that will meant to be second half next year.

不。我認為我們與 ASML 的合作非常密切。所以，我認為，他們昨天對 EUV 的評論也持有同樣的觀點。好的，今天，EUV 當然還沒有達到生產規格。實際上，最近的突破是 30 瓦，現在他們擁有更高的 80 瓦機器，我們仍在朝著這個目標努力。所以——也正如 Peter 昨天提到的那樣，EUV 不會在開始時就插入 10 奈米，因為它會減慢通過視窗的速度。因此，我們的 EUV 團隊仍在持續研究 EUV，希望在 10 奈米製程開始符合後續製程簡化要求後插入幾層。好的。這意味著將要到明年下半年。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Michael Chou, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的 Michael Chou。

I don't know, C.C. Wei, could you give us more color on the advanced packaging you just mentioned. What's the difference between this one and CoWoS?

我不知道，C.C。魏先生，您能否詳細介紹一下您剛才提到的先進封裝？這和 CoWoS 有什麼差別？

The difference between the InFO and the CoWoS is actually the geometry to connect multi-dies together. In the CoWoS, actually we are using very small geometry, actually 65 nanometers of geometry to connect the multi-dies together. In InFO, we're using the larger geometry, which are still technical confidential information. But the cost is much, much lower.

InFO 和 CoWoS 之間的差異實際上在於將多個模具連接在一起的幾何形狀。在 CoWoS 中，我們實際上使用非常小的幾何形狀，實際上是 65 奈米的幾何形狀將多個晶片連接在一起。在 InFO 中，我們使用更大的幾何圖形，它們仍然是技術機密資訊。但成本卻低很多。

Could we expect that would be adopted by mobile customers?

我們是否可以預期它將被行動客戶所採用？

I would like to say that we are working with major customers.

我想說的是，我們正在與主要客戶合作。

Thank you. The second question is regarding Q2 outlook by segments?

謝謝。第二個問題是關於各部門第二季的前景？

Second quarter, all segments will grow more than seasonal, especially strong in communication, consumer and industrial-related applications. Computer will grow less than the other three segments.

第二季度，所有細分市場將實現超過季節性的成長，尤其在通訊、消費和工業相關應用領域表現強勁。計算機的成長速度將低於其他三個領域。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Gokul, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Gokul。

Yeah, thanks for taking my question. My question is about the second wave of demand, both for 28-nanometer. I think some of it is already coming through. And how do you think about second wave of demand for the future process like 20 or 16? Is it going to be much smaller and how does that have an impact in terms of your thinking on investment as well as future returns? Thanks.

是的，感謝您回答我的問題。我的問題是關於第二波的需求，都是針對28奈米。我認為部分措施已開始實施。您如何看待未來第二波需求，例如 20 或 16？規模是否會小很多？這對您的投資思維以及未來報酬有何影響？謝謝。

I think Gokul, your question is with respect to the backfill of the 20 and 16-nanometer once the first wave customers migrate to the next node, whether or not we will have sufficient demand, as big as what we had in the past and whether or not -- if not whether this will change our investment profile and change our return on invested capital?

我認為，Gokul，你的問題是關於一旦第一批客戶遷移到下一個節點後 20 和 16 奈米的補充，我們是否會有足夠的需求，像過去一樣大，如果沒有，這是否會改變我們的投資狀況並改變我們的投資回報率？

Hi. Let me answer this question. The 20-nanometer SoC is not a transition node. We have worked with our customer, already come out with very powerful products and in the ramping up. So -- and these customers, some of them indeed will quickly transition to 16 FinFET plus. However, still some other product will stay on 20 SoC for quite a long time, for quite a long time. Not every product requires the highest speed for example. But the key is we manage this transition by -- the tool commonality between 20 and 16 are 95%. So when the customer move from 20 SoC to 16 FinFET, we only need to increase a very marginal amount of the capital to suffice that demand. Of course, the ASP. And the product will be more competitive for our customer. So that's how we -- so we consider 20 SoC, CapEx-wise, almost -- very similar to -- I'll put it together as one node. But it does provide our customer their product grade or product spec to continually improve year-after-year.

你好。讓我來回答這個問題。20奈米SoC不是一個過渡節點。我們已經與客戶合作，推出了非常強大的產品，並且正在逐步擴大規模。所以 — — 這些客戶中，有些確實會很快過渡到 16 FinFET plus。不過，仍有一些其他產品將在相當長的一段時間內停留在 20 SoC 上。例如，並非每種產品都需要最高速度。但關鍵是我們透過以下方式管理這項轉變——20 和 16 之間的工具通用性為 95%。因此，當客戶從 20 SoC 轉向 16 FinFET 時，我們只需要增加少量資本即可滿足需求。當然是ASP。這樣，我們客戶的產品就更具競爭力。這就是我們 — — 所以我們考慮 20 個 SoC，從資本支出來看，幾乎 — — 非常相似 — — 我會把它們放在一起作為一個節點。但它確實使我們的客戶的產品等級或產品規格逐年不斷改進。

Okay. Just one more follow-up on that. I think you have indicated that your 2015 CapEx will start to come off a little bit. Should we expect that to continue going into 2016 and 10 nanometer or is it intermediate stock and then we need to ramp up as we ramp up the EUV and (inaudible)?

好的。對此我還有最後一個後續問題。我想你已經表明了2015年的資本支出將會開始略有下降。我們是否應該預期這種情況會持續到 2016 年和 10 奈米，或者它是一個中間庫存，然後我們需要隨著 EUV 和（聽不清楚）的增加而增加？

We have not decided CapEx for 2015, but from what we are seeing right now we expect the CapEx for next year will be similar to this year's level. However, because our revenues are continuing to grow for this year and also for next year, so the CapEx intensity will go down this year and next year as well. Next boost of CapEx will be 10 nanometer. So I think that will be coming on maybe the timeframe of 2016 and 2017.

我們尚未決定2015年的資本支出，但從目前的情況來看，我們預計明年的資本支出將與今年的水準相似。然而，由於我們今年和明年的收入將繼續增長，因此今年和明年的資本支出強度也將下降。下一次資本支出成長將是10奈米。所以我認為這可能將在 2016 年或 2017 年左右實現。

Steven Pelayo, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的史蒂文‧佩拉約 (Steven Pelayo)。

Hi. We focus so much on 20 and 16 nanometer, but I guess, one thing I noticed here in the first quarter is your 45 nanometer actually grew about 25% quarter-on-quarter. That was a bit of a surprise. So what's the driver for kind of that mid node? And then the second question would be the More-than-Moore strategy. Are you out of capacity in 200 millimeter? Are you able to transition some of those products to 300 millimeter, what are we thinking for the higher nodes that are still half the business?

你好。我們非常關注 20 和 16 奈米，但我想，我在第一季注意到的一件事是，45 奈米實際上環比增長了約 25％。這確實有點讓人吃驚。那麼這種中間節點的驅動因素是什麼呢？第二個問題是超越摩爾的戰略。200毫米的產能是否不足？您是否能夠將其中一些產品過渡到 300 毫米，我們對仍佔業務一半的更高節點有何想法？

I'll answer the 45-nanometer demand. I think our 40 and 45-nanometer market share holds up this year much better and our -- the product mostly is the -- associated with the connectivity, and the connectivity integration become very big. So -- and our -- we hold very large capacity for our customer. So the demand is very strong this year.

我來回答45奈米的需求。我認為今年我們的 40 和 45 奈米市場份額會保持得更好，而且我們的產品主要是與連接相關的，並且連接整合變得非常大。所以 — 我們 — 我們為客戶提供非常大的產能。所以今年的需求非常強勁。

Your second is More-than-Moore?

您的第二個成就超越了摩爾定律？

On even higher level nodes. I mean, obviously things like CMOS image sensors, fingerprint sensors, they suck up a lot of capacity and historically these are being built on 200 millimeters. So I'm curious are you out of more mature node capacity and what are you doing about that?

在甚至更高層級的節點上。我的意思是，顯然 CMOS 影像感測器、指紋感應器等會佔用大量容量，而且從歷史上看，它們都是在 200 毫米的尺寸上建造的。所以我很好奇，您是否失去了更成熟的節點容量，以及您對此做了什麼？

That's a good question. Actually we did not increase huge amount of capacity for those specialties. But we did modify and buying some parts and tools to increase a little bit and also to convert the logic capacity into the more and more specialties capacities. We did all the time. We continue to see the strong demand on those specialties just like you mentioned, CMOS image sensor, fingerprint especially, embedded flash, for the multi, for those kind of products.

這是個好問題。實際上，我們並沒有為這些專業增加大量的產能。但我們確實修改並購買了一些零件和工具，以稍微增加一些，並將邏輯容量轉換為越來越多的專業容量。我們一直都是這麼做的。我們繼續看到對這些專業產品的強勁需求，就像您提到的那樣，CMOS影像感測器，尤其是指紋辨識、嵌入式快閃記憶體，適用於多種產品。

I can just sneak one last question. We're still focused on intensifying competitive landscape potentially at 16 and 40 nanometer. But it seems to me that at 28 to maybe now 45 as well, you guys are just extending, you're lengthening your period of dominance. So, this fear of -- this talk of potential second sourcing, it almost seems like the competitive landscape has almost got less intense. Would you agree with that?

我只能偷偷問最後一個問題。我們仍專注於加強16奈米和40奈米領域的競爭格局。但在我看來，從 28 歲到現在的 45 歲，你們只是在延長，你們在延長自己的統治時期。所以，對於潛在的第二採購來源的擔憂，似乎競爭格局已經不那麼激烈了。你同意嗎？

I think it will be more difficult today and even more difficult in the future. Take 28 nanometer, for example, this is already the third year -- the fourth year we ramped 28 and the third year we ramped 28 high-K metal gate. And, first of all, the complexity is hard. But, secondly, when we ramped 20, our performance did not stand still. We continued to improve the product grid in the 28 nanometer. There are several ways our product saw improvement. That's how we try to defend our market share.

我認為今天會更加困難，將來會更加困難。以 28 奈米為例，這已經是第三年了——第四年我們突破了 28 奈米，第三年我們突破了 28 高 K 金屬閘極。首先，複雜性很難。但是，其次，當我們增加到 20 時，我們的表現並沒有停滯不前。我們在28奈米上繼續改進產品網格。我們的產品在多個方面都有所改進。這就是我們捍衛市場佔有率的方法。

Roland Shu, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Roland Shu。

Good afternoon. My first question is to C.C. C.C., you are talking about the engineer mobilization is the key for the fast ramp on the 20 nanometer. I think definitely the reason you highlighted, TSMC has enough talent pool for that. Adding new people, sure. But I think going forward, I think the last couple of weeks TSMC say, we like to hire about 5,000 talent. And at the same time Hon Hai and the other Tier 1 company in Taiwan also would like to hire thousands of the talent. So are you worried about the shortage of the talent pool in Taiwan?

午安.我的第一個問題是給 C.C. 的。 C.C.，您說工程師動員是 20 奈米快速發展的關鍵。我認為您強調的原因是，台積電有足夠的人才庫。當然，會增加新人。但我認為展望未來，我想最近幾週台積電就表示，我們想招募大約 5,000 名人才。同時，鴻海等台灣第一線企業也希望招募數千名人才。那麼您是否擔心台灣的人才短缺呢？

I think TSMC toady is a preferred employer in Taiwan. So, I don't use the word worry.

我認為台積電現在是台灣的首選雇主。所以，我不會使用“擔心”這個詞。

Okay, yeah. I think it's very nice to hear you're so confident about that. But I think another question is how you are going to motivate current employees going forward or the new employees and to motivate them to work more hard, more smart, more innovative and give more contribution to TSMC?

好的，是的。我很高興聽到您對此如此有信心。但我認為另一個問題是，您將如何激勵現有員工或新員工，激勵他們更加努力、更聰明、更有創新，為台積電做出更多貢獻？

How to motivate existing employees? Actually TSMC continue to expand and our young engineer or the employees all have a very bright future, because of -- there are a lot of new openings in the higher position and Company's performance is getting very good, that's enough to motivate our existing employees. We never have that problem.

如何激勵現有員工？實際上台積電不斷擴張，我們的年輕工程師或員工都有著非常光明的未來，因為——更高職位上有很多新的空缺，而且公司的業績越來越好，這足以激勵我們現有的員工。我們從來沒有遇到過這樣的問題。

Okay. Yeah, TSMC is a very good career place to all of your employees. Okay my second question is to Lora. I actually look at your -- you said on your margin improvement actually from the continuous cost reduction is one of the reason and also look at your other manufacturing cost in first quarter have been declined about 7% quarter-on quarter even though you have the same amount of wafer shipment. So my question is how much room is there for you to continue cut cost and to squeeze your gross margin?

好的。是的，台積電對所有員工來說都是一個很好的職涯發展平台。好的，我的第二個問題是問 Lora 的。我實際上看了看——您說利潤率的提高實際上是由於持續的成本降低，同時我還看了看第一季度的其他製造成本，儘管晶圓出貨量相同，但環比下降了約 7%。所以我的問題是，你們還有多少空間可以繼續削減成本並壓縮毛利率？

I also ask myself the same questions, how much room. But I was -- every time I was surprised how much the engineer actually can do. So I'm confident. We will continue to drive that. It's old technology, current technology and leading edge technology.

我也問自己同樣的問題，有多少空間。但每次我都驚訝於工程師實際上能做多少事。所以我很有信心。我們將繼續推動這一點。它是舊技術、當前技術和前沿技術。

Okay. Thank you. And I think a follow-up is on -- I think TSMC now is loading at very high utilization now and what's your expectation if TSMC is loading at 100% utilization, what is the margin expectation for TSMC at the current SGM? Thank you.

好的。謝謝。我認為後續問題是——我認為台積電目前的產能利用率非常高，如果台積電的產能利用率達到 100%，您的預期是什麼？台積電在目前特別股東大會的利潤率預期是多少？謝謝。

I think you are trying t understand whether we can achieve 50% again if the capacity utilization gets to 100%, right? I can say I think we have the capability to achieve 50% if the utilization exceed or reach 100%.

我想您想了解的是，如果產能利用率達到 100%，我們是否還能再達到 50%，對嗎？我可以說，如果利用率超過或達到 100%，我認為我們有能力達到 50%。

Okay, I think this is about time that we should open the Q&A to those people who are on the line. Operator, could you proceed with the first caller on the line?

好的，我想現在我們應該向線上的人開放問答環節了。接線生，您能繼續接聽第一位來電嗎？

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

Mehdi Hosseini，SIG。

Yes, thanks for taking my question. Going back to the commentary on 16 and 16 plus, it seems to me that 16 nanometer plus will have a larger mix of revenue and 16-nanometer revenue contribution would be limited. Could you please clarify that? And then what should we think about the actual contribution? Is it going more of a Q4 2016, or would it be more meaningful in early 2016?

是的，感謝您回答我的問題。回顧對 16 和 16 plus 的評論，在我看來，16 奈米以上將佔據更大的收入份額，而 16 奈米的收入貢獻將有限。您能澄清一下嗎？那麼，我們該如何看待實際貢獻呢？它是否更可能出現在 2016 年第四季度，還是在 2016 年初更有意義？

Alright. Maybe I think his question is with respect to 16 FinFET versus 16 FinFET plus, whether or not we will have a bigger business volume from 16 FinFET plus and if so, whether or not the volume will be coming from Q4 of 2015 or we have to wait until 2016?

好吧。也許我認為他的問題是關於 16 FinFET 與 16 FinFET plus 相比，我們是否會從 16 FinFET plus 獲得更大的業務量，如果是的話，業務量是否會從 2015 年第四季度開始，還是必須等到 2016 年？

From 2015, first of all. The volume of 16 FinFET plus will happen in 2015 and let me drive that. Even for some of the customer, initially their products sits on 16 FinFET, they also would like to migrate their second if market opened up indeed to upgrade their product. So I will see the majority, I really mean vast majority will be 16 FinFET plus.

首先從2015年開始。16 FinFET 以上的產量將在 2015 年實現，讓我來推動這項進程。即使對於某些客戶來說，他們的產品最初是基於 16 FinFET 的，但如果市場確實開放，他們也願意遷移到第二個產品來升級他們的產品。所以我會看到大多數，我的意思是絕大多數將是 16 FinFET 以上。

Okay and then one follow-up question for Lora. You talk about the SG&A trend into the second half. What should we think about R&D? Should we also assume that the R&D, because so much of revenue will go higher in the second half and into 2015?

好的，然後問 Lora 一個後續問題。您談了下半年的銷售、一般及行政費用趨勢。我們該如何思考研發？我們是否也應該假設研發支出會增加，因為下半年以及 2015 年的大部分收入都會增加？

I think the current R&D to revenue is ranging from 7% to 8%. If I look at the second half, I think they are still in that range, from 7% to 8% range.

我認為目前研發佔營收的比率在7%到8%之間。如果我看一下下半年，我認為它們仍處於這一範圍內，即 7％ 到 8％ 的範圍內。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Brett Samson, Arete Research.

布雷特·薩姆森 (Brett Samson)，Arete Research。

Thanks very much. Just had a quick question. Can you give us a sense within the 28 nanometer nodes, how does that split between poly-SiON and high-K and how do you think this might trend through this year?

非常感謝。我只是想問一個簡單的問題。您能否為我們介紹一下在 28 奈米節點內，多晶 SiON 和高 K 之間的區別，以及您認為今年的趨勢如何？

So Brett's question is what is really the mix between poly-SiON, that is our 28 LP, versus our high-k metal gate and what is going to be the trend with respect to that kind of mix throughout this year?

因此，Brett 的問題是，多晶矽（即我們的 28 LP）與我們的高 k 金屬閘極之間的混合到底是什麼，以及今年這種混合的趨勢是什麼？

Allow me to answer that. Our 28 nanometer high-k metal gate has three options, 28HP, 28HPM and 28HPC. And this year these 28 high-k metal gate technology will be about 85% of the overall 28 nanometer in terms of the wafer.

請容許我來回答這個問題。我們的28奈米高k金屬閘極有三種選擇，28HP，28HPM和28HPC。而今年這些28奈米高k金屬閘極技術在晶圓上將占到整體28奈米的85%左右。

Great. That's very helpful. And I have follow-up question on InFO. Can you maybe talk a little bit about attach rates for InFO over the next couple of years in smartphones? Is this something you expect all major smartphone chip makers to adopt or is it something that you think is more targeted at the high end? And maybe as a quick follow-up on that, what is the real benefit that InFO is bringing to chipmakers? I don't know, if there is a performance or power saving you can share with us. And also how should we think about the margin structure for this within TSMC's business? Thank you.

偉大的。這非常有幫助。我對 InFO 還有後續問題。您能否談談未來幾年智慧型手機中 InFO 的配售率？您是否希望所有主要智慧型手機晶片製造商都採用這項技術，還是您認為這更針對高端市場？也許我們可以快速跟進這個問題，InFO 為晶片製造商帶來的真正好處是什麼？我不知道，您是否可以與我們分享效能或節能方面的內容。另外，我們該如何看待台積電業務中的利潤結構？謝謝。

You ask whether we are working with the customer and when we will have a product out? We are working with the major customers that all I can say and outlook is very good, performance is very good. The cost is low. I believe that we will see the product out, but that will be our customer's schedule. Technology is close to be in production ready probably early next year.

您詢問我們是否正在與客戶合作以及何時能推出產品？我們正在與主要客戶合作，我可以說前景非常好，表現非常好。成本低廉。我相信我們會看到產品問世，但那將取決於我們客戶的日程安排。該技術即將投入生產，預計明年初即可投入生產。

Okay. And if I look out maybe a couple of years from now, just to get a sense, is this something you think will be a very high attach rate? When you sell SoCs with the leading edge, do you think the percentage of chips you sell at leading edge will be attached with InFO? I'm just trying to get a sense for the penetration that you think InFO will have within your -- the bigger smartphone chipmakers?

好的。如果我展望一下幾年之後的情況，只是為了了解一下，您是否認為這將是一個非常高的附加率？當您銷售具有領先優勢的 SoC 時，您是否認為您銷售的具有領先優勢的晶片的百分比會附帶 InFO？我只是想了解一下您認為 InFO 在大型智慧型手機晶片製造商中的滲透率是多少？

We certainly believe that attach rate; you're using that word attach rate, we certainly think it will be very popular among the mobile product and because we provided a very low cost solution and continue to give the high performance and lower power consumption. Whether it's going to be -- what is the percentage of attach rate, I cannot answer that question right now.

我們確實相信附加率；您使用了配售率這個詞，我們當然認為它在行動產品中會非常受歡迎，因為我們提供了非常低成本的解決方案，並且繼續提供高性能和更低功耗。至於附加率的百分比是多少，我現在無法回答這個問題。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Alright, let me go back to the floor now. Bill Lu, Morgan Stanley.

好的，現在讓我回到演講現場。摩根士丹利的 Bill Lu。

Hi, good afternoon. I will start with a housekeeping question for Lora. A quarter ago, management said that the Company was pre-building -- forgot what the word was exactly, but building some of the demand in 2Q and 1Q and that impacted margins. If you look at your 2Q guide, if that didn't happen can you tell me what the margins would have been? I think that would have been -- 1Q margin little bit lower and 2Q margin little bit higher, right?

嗨，下午好。我先想問 Lora 一個基本問題。一個季度前，管理層表示公司正在進行預先建設——忘記具體是什麼詞了，但在第二季和第一季建設了一些需求，這影響了利潤率。如果您看一下第二季度指南，如果沒有發生這種情況，您能告訴我利潤率會是多少嗎？我認為第一季的利潤率會稍微低一些，而第二季的利潤率會稍微高一些，對嗎？

2Q will be a very strong quarter and our capacity are essentially full. So, there's no need to build inventory and no room to build the inventory.

第二季度將是一個非常強勁的季度，我們的產能基本上已滿。因此，沒有必要建立庫存，也沒有空間來建立​​庫存。

So I wasn't clear. I don't mean that you would do that again in 2Q, but what you did in 1Q impacted 1Q margins and 2Q margins, correct?

所以我不太清楚。我並不是說你會在第二季再次這樣做，而是你在第一季所做的影響了第一季的利潤率和第二季的利潤率，對嗎？

Yeah, Bill's point is that since we did it in the first quarter, which probably represents some sort of a pulling from the second quarter. So, had we not done that, our second quarter utilization probably will be even higher and the second quarter's margins will be higher.

是的，比爾的觀點是，由於我們在第一季就這樣做了，這可能代表著第二季的某種拉力。因此，如果我們沒有這樣做，我們第二季的利用率可能會更高，第二季的利潤率也會更高。

I have to talk from first quarter. I said, first quarter we did do some inventory and the impact for first quarter was about one percentage point, margin. For second quarter, had we continue doing that, well you have to look at which node you're building. For example, for certain capacity, it's already full. So you can only run that much, right? So, I don't know how to assume, we will be exceeding 110% utilization? That's essentially not possible. So am I answering your question?

我必須從第一季開始談。我說，第一季我們確實做了一些盤點，對第一季的影響約為一個百分點，利潤率。對於第二季度，如果我們繼續這樣做，那麼你必須看看你正在建立哪個節點。比如說某個容量，已經滿了。所以你只能跑那麼多，對嗎？所以，我不知道如何假設，我們的利用率將會超過 110%？這本質上是不可能的。那我回答你的問題了嗎？

Not exactly. I guess I could take it offline. That's okay.

不完全是。我想我可以將其離線。沒關係。

Okay. Maybe I should say that the inventory build for the first quarter has no impact on second quarter. It will impact first quarter, because we utilized first quarter's capacity ahead of time.

好的。也許我應該說第一季的庫存增加對第二季沒有影響。這會影響第一季度，因為我們提前利用了第一季的產能。

Doesn't mean that that second quarter margins would have been a little bit higher?

這不就代表第二季的利潤率會更高一些嗎？

Second quarter order already coming in, it's a regular order.

第二季的訂單已經開始，這是常規訂單。

Second question is on this inventory cycle that we have seen. So, if you look back into last year, 1Q, 2Q were also very good and the things dropped off in 3Q and 4Q. Can you talk about what you're seeing now that is different from a year ago in terms of potentially a broader base recovery, maybe more end markets, more customers, or what are you seeing that gives you confidence that that won't happen again this year? And I guess, if you look at this more broadly, TSMC used to have a very diversified customer base, but in the not too distant future, I could see your top two customers being 25%, 30% of total revenues, both in the mobile segment, right? How do you manage that concentration going forward?

第二個問題是關於我們所看到的庫存週期。因此，如果回顧去年，第一季和第二季的情況也很好，但第三季和第四季的情況有所下降。您能否談談您現在看到的與一年前相比有何不同？例如更廣泛的基礎復甦，也許更多的終端市場，更多的客戶，或者您看到的哪些情況讓您有信心今年不會再發生這種情況？我想，如果從更廣泛的角度來看，台積電曾經擁有非常多樣化的客戶群，但在不久的將來，我可以看到你們的前兩個客戶將分別佔總收入的 25% 和 30%，而且都在行動領域，對嗎？今後您將如何管理這種集中度？

Bill, you actually have two questions packaged into one.

比爾，你實際上把兩個問題合併成了一個問題。

Okay. I think, as you know, in the past few years, we see the end of the year people try to control inventories and towards the end of the year it's about back to the seasonal level. However, last year, we look at our fabless DOI and in the industry they drastically control the inventory, reduce the inventory. Even at the end of Q3, we see them get to seasonal. And going to Q4, everybody find that their inventory is below seasonal. Our data shows below seasonal by six days, which didn't happen before. Therefore, you see the -- the reason they did this, because of their perspective for the outlook when they were in the third quarter of last year.

好的。我認為，正如你所知，在過去幾年中，我們看到人們在年底試圖控制庫存，並且到年底庫存就會回到季節性水平。然而，去年，我們查看了無晶圓廠 DOI，發現該行業大幅控制庫存，減少庫存。即使在第三季末，我們仍然看到它們變得季節性化。到了第四季度，每個人都發現他們的庫存低於季節性的。我們的數據顯示，產量比季節產量低了六天，這種情況以前從未發生過。因此，你看，他們這樣做的原因，是因為他們對去年第三季的前景有這樣的看法。

Now for this quarter, we see the inventory not even back to seasonal. It is still, from our data, is minus five days below seasonal. So, they don't have time to replenish inventory given the better outlook. So, what happens to -- you see the inventory will happen in the second quarter. Now, whether this year we will be as bad as last year, I think I am typically more optimistic, because even down to the second quarter is only to the seasonal level. So it might -- even we assume it doesn't overshoot, it shouldn't be very much below seasonal. So, this is the difference we see this year.

現在就本季而言，我們發現庫存甚至還沒有恢復到季節性水準。從我們的數據來看，今年的降雨量仍比季節性降雨量低 5 天。因此，鑑於前景較好，他們沒有時間補充庫存。那麼，會發生什麼事——你看庫存將在第二季發生。現在，無論今年的情況是否會像去年一樣糟糕，我認為我通常更樂觀，因為即使到第二季度也只是季節性水平。所以它可能——即使我們假設它沒有超出範圍，它也不應該低於季節性水平太多。這就是我們今年看到的不同。

Customer concentration risk

客戶集中風險

Customer concentration, we just work very closely with our customers, okay. Remember if you're IDM, you have to face the -- and if you have much big market share you have to face the same consumer product demand decontrol. So this problem is more an industry problem than our problem, but we deal with this problem by working very closely with our two biggest customer and today we're already together planning our 2015 supply/demand very closely. So we recognize these challenges. Our customer also recognize the same challenges, so the only solution is work very closely together.

以客戶為中心，我們只是與客戶密切合作，好的。記住，如果你是IDM，你就必須面對——如果你擁有很大的市場份額，你就必須面對同樣的消費產品需求放鬆管制。因此，這個問題更多的是一個行業問題，而不是我們的問題，但我們透過與我們的兩個最大客戶密切合作來解決這個問題，今天我們已經一起非常緊密地規劃了我們2015年的供需。因此，我們認識到這些挑戰。我們的客戶也意識到同樣的挑戰，因此唯一的解決方案就是緊密合作。

Andrew Lu, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的 Andrew Lu。

You just now forgot my name?

你剛才忘了我的名字嗎？

I forgot your company.

我忘了你的公司了。

We still survive. (spoken in foreign language) The first one is the CapEx number for next year, about 10 billion. For this year we are going to spend a lot of money on 20-nanometer capacity, but it is very likely one or two customers is going to migrate to FinFET -- larger customer to 16 FinFET plus or something. And earlier you said is capacity is 95% convertible. I believe the spending is very low. Assuming we have a 40k, 50k capacity by the end of this year and next year 30k convert to 16 FinFET, instead of adding a new capacity. Supposing next year CapEx should be sharply decline compared to this year, so I don't know what's the mix on this one? Thank you.

我們仍然生存。（外語）第一個是明年的資本支出數字，大約100億。今年我們將在 20 奈米產能上投入大量資金，但很可能有一兩個客戶將遷移到 FinFET，較大的客戶將遷移到 16 FinFET 以上或類似的製程。您之前說過，其容量為 95% 可轉換。我認為支出非常低。假設我們今年底有 40k、50k 的產能，明年有 30k 轉換為 16 FinFET，而不是增加新的產能。假設明年的資本支出應該會較今年大幅下降，所以我不知道這個情況的組合會是怎麼樣？謝謝。

You said next year the capacity will suddenly decline?

你說明年產能會突然下降？

Yes, because your 20 versus 16 is 95% convertible.

是的，因為您的 20 與 16 有 95% 的可轉換性。

Okay. What do we see is this year we ramped 20-nanometer very steeply, but toward the end of year, we see next year the combined 20 and 16 capacity will continue to increase next year. So some of the 16 FinFET we will convert 20 to 16, but we will also add a new 16 FinFET capacity next year. That's what the most of the CapEx this year is due for. So the total 20 and 16 capacity will continue to increase next year.

好的。我們看到的是，今年我們非常迅速地推進了 20 奈米技術，但到年底，我們預計明年 20 奈米和 16 奈米的總產能將繼續增加。因此，我們會將其中一部分 16 FinFET 從 20 轉換為 16，但明年我們還將增加新的 16 FinFET 產能。這就是今年大部分資本支出的用途。因此明年20架和16架飛機的總運力將持續增加。

So total combined, 20 plus 16, the amount, the capacity you're going to add, quite similar for both each year, can we say that? For example, just using example is a 40k capacity by the end of this year and next year and next year about 80k?

所以總計 20 加 16，您要添加的數量，即容量，每年都非常相似，我們可以這樣說嗎？舉個例子，今年底的產能是 40k，明年是 80k 左右？

Allow me to say that the increase of -- total capacity increase next year, I think will be more than the conversion of 20 to 16.

請容許我說一下，我認為明年總產能的增加將超過從 20 到 16 的轉換。

Okay, Andrew, I think you can go home and work out your numbers.

好的，安德魯，我想你可以回家計算你的數字了。

The reason I asked this question is because I assume one customer take all your 50% of your capacity on 20. This customer is not going to use 20 next year, he is going to migrate 16 to another and you will have a totally -- the capacity next year, you don't need add that much on 20, unless you add additional 20 nanometer capacity.

我之所以問這個問題，是因為我假設一個客戶會佔用你 20 個座位中 50% 的容量。該客戶明年不會使用 20 奈米，他會將 16 奈米遷移至另一奈米，這樣你就會有完全的產能——明年的產能，你不需要在 20 奈米上增加那麼多，除非你增加額外的 20 奈米產能。

I think the key is this customer will still continue to use 20 SoC next year.

我認為關鍵在於這個客戶明年仍會繼續使用 20 SoC。

That's right. And Andrew, well --

這是正確的。安德魯，嗯——

That's clear enough. The second question I have is, when you calculate US dollars per smartphone, do you calculate based on the shares you have or you use the total value divide by the global smartphone shipment?

這已經夠清楚了。我的第二個問題是，當您計算每部智慧型手機的美元價值時，您是根據您擁有的份額來計算的，還是用總價值除以全球智慧型手機出貨量來計算的？

Yes, we use the total TSMC wafer revenue, divided by global smartphone shipment.

是的，我們使用台積電晶圓總收入除以全球智慧型手機出貨量。

That's why the high-end side, if you gain shares then your ASPs change a lot?

這就是為什麼在高端方面，如果您獲得份額，那麼您的 ASP 會發生很大變化嗎？

Yes. That includes the silicon content increase and also the share increase. I cannot distinguish which portion is how much at this point.

是的。其中包括矽含量的增加和份額的增加。我現在無法區分哪個部分是多少。

Well based on our calculation, it should be much higher than $8.

那麼根據我們的計算，它應該遠高於 8 美元。

Maybe your number is correct and they will be very happy, yes.

也許你的號碼是正確的，他們會很高興，是的。

Average, total average?

平均值，總平均值？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. I will check with my staff.

好的。我將與我的工作人員核實。

Thank you.

謝謝。

William Dong, UBS.

瑞銀的 William Dong。

Thank you. My quick question is, I think in terms of competitive landscape there is always a lot of talk about design portability. Obviously, I think your competitor will try to come after your clients next year very aggressively. So, I wanted to just check what is your view on design portability and is it a realistic threat as sort of with the move from 20 to 16, we're using the same design rule. Does that really mean that your competitors can actually try to get some of these customers?

謝謝。我的問題是，我認為在競爭格局方面，人們總是討論設計可移植性。顯然，我認為你的競爭對手明年會非常積極地爭取你的客戶。所以，我想檢查一下您對設計可移植性的看法，以及它是否是一個現實的威脅，因為從 20 到 16 的轉變，我們使用相同的設計規則。這是否真的意味著您的競爭對手實際上可以嘗試爭取其中一些客戶？

All right. So William's question is with respect to design portability, in the sense that if 20 nanometer and 16 nanometer share the same design rule, will we open the window for our competition to learn something about our 20 nanometer design rule and then compete with us on 16 nanometer?

好的。所以威廉的問題是關於設計可移植性，如果 20 奈米和 16 奈米共享相同的設計規則，我們是否會為我們的競爭對手打開窗口，讓他們了解我們的 20 奈米設計規則，然後在 16 奈米上與我們競爭？

Let me answer the question. First, 20 SoC and 16 FinFET are totally different device structure. Even the back-end design rule are similar, you cannot port one to the other easily. No, it won't be easy. And what's your second question?

讓我來回答這個問題。首先，20個SoC和16個FinFET是完全不同的裝置結構。即使後端設計規則相似，您也無法輕鬆地將一個移植到另一個。不，這並不容易。你的第二個問題是什麼？

Okay. So, I guess, from 20 to 16 it's difficult, but in terms of perhaps you having 16, your competitor is having 16 nanometer as well, obviously I think there has been some talk in the market about them having some ability to port designs. Do you think that's a realistic threat or is that really just lot of wishful thinking?

好的。所以，我想，從 20 到 16 是比較困難的，但也許你擁有 16 奈米，你的競爭對手也擁有 16 奈米，顯然我認為市場上有一些關於他們具有移植設計能力的討論。您認為這是現實的威脅還是只是一廂情願的想法？

Well, Mark already answered this kind of question saying that porting from one foundry to the other foundry you are getting harder and harder. The real reason is all the device characteristic right now is related to the strain, all those kind of things, which you cannot just copy. You cannot de-layer or you cannot do the reverse engineering to look at it what is the device structure and get the same kind of IC characteristic. So, it's quite very hard -- actually very hard.

好吧，馬克已經回答了這個問題，他說從一個代工廠移植到另一個代工廠變得越來越困難。真正的原因是，目前所有設備的特性都與應變有關，所有這些東西都是無法直接複製的。您無法分層，也無法進行逆向工程來了解設備結構並獲得相同類型的 IC 特性。所以，這非常非常困難——實際上非常困難。

Okay, let me answer. The porting it happens and I just want to make two points. We just have to live with it, deal with it. Let me point out two points. One is porting is cost more and more nowadays for this generation. I think it takes a lot of R&D resources to do that. Secondly, we just have to do better 16 technology. There are reasons to do that, because, first of all, we ramp 20 SoC massively this year and lot of learnings, a lot of process window control, a lot of design and collaboration with our customer, we will build ahead of our competitor. So we believe our 16 FinFET right on top of our 20 SoC, given they are same design rule, will be more mature at the time compared with our competitor.

好的，我來回答一下。移植已經發生了，我只想說明兩點。我們只能忍受它，處理它。我要指出兩點。一是對這一代來說，移植成本現在越來越高。我認為要做到這一點需要大量的研發資源。其次，我們只要把16項技術做得更好就行了。這樣做是有原因的，因為首先，我們今年大規模生產 20 個 SoC，並且進行了大量學習，進行了大量工藝窗口控制，進行了大量設計並與客戶進行了合作，我們將領先於競爭對手。因此，我們相信，由於我們的 20 SoC 具有相同的設計規則，因此我們的 16 FinFET 將比我們的競爭對手更加成熟。

Dan Heyler, Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

美銀美林的 Dan Heyler。

I just wanted to come back a little bit to the 16 discussion. Again and again this industry encounters some big node changes and 28 saw problems that TSMC didn't anticipate and your customers did not anticipate when 28 was first rolled out. How should we think about 16 and this is really unchartered territory? It is a totally new device structure. Should we be a little more conservative on the possible unknowns coming in and that this could easily be pushed out say a few quarters? How much are you really setting expectations here very high that you can have 16 in the market? Should we be thinking of this as a pretty uncertain node given how early it is? Thank you.

我只是想稍微回顧一下第 16 項討論。這個行業一次又一次地遇到一些重大的節點變化，並且 28 出現了台積電沒有預料到的問題，而您的客戶在 28 首次推出時也沒有預料到。我們該如何看待 16，這確實是未知領域？這是一個全新的設備結構。我們是否應該對可能出現的未知因素更加保守一些，而這可能會被輕易推遲幾個季度？您對在市場上擁有 16 家公司的期望有多高？考慮到現在還為時過早，我們是否應該認為這是一個相當不確定的節點？謝謝。

I think this is your comment. We'll accept that and think. I think at this point we develop our technology, we can only make sure our technology do not stand in the way. When customer has need, for product needs we will be there, and mature, and support their business with enough capacity, okay. As I mentioned earlier, the industry -- market does change, for example, from 32 bit to 64 bit. That does sway somehow the schedule of 16 FinFET. But today I really talk about our readiness as to how much real business, and we will let you know when we do the next year's financial forecast.

我認為這是你的評論。我們會接受這一點並思考。我認為，目前我們正在開發我們的技術，我們只能確保我們的技術不會成為阻礙。當客戶有需求時，對於產品需求，我們會在那裡，並且成熟，並以足夠的能力支持他們的業務，好的。正如我之前提到的，行業市場確實會發生變化，例如從 32 位到 64 位。這確實在某種程度上影響了 16 FinFET 的計劃。但今天我真正要說的是我們對實際業務的準備程度，當我們做明年的財務預測時，我們會告訴大家。

Just to be clear, a follow-up, just to be clear that sort of -- kind of we should start to see volumes in first half 2015 where we would start to see a few percentage of revenue, based on your current expectations, few percentage contribution by second quarter next year, is that fair? Lora is checking.

只是為了清楚起見，後續問題，只是為了清楚起見——我們應該在 2015 年上半年開始看到銷量，我們將開始看到收入的百分之幾，根據您目前的預期，到明年第二季度貢獻百分之幾，這樣公平嗎？洛拉正在檢查。

You mean the 16?

你指的是 16 嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

We w ill see some revenue in 2015.

我們將在 2015 年看到一些收入。

Good okay. Setting the expectations low, that's good. I want to follow up on this InFO, this is quite interesting. Could you just maybe elaborate a bit more on what exactly are you going to be attaching, so which devices are we talking about in terms of what - with CoWoS it was pretty much PLD companies were there and others, some baseband. So what devices are you attaching on the initial generation between the different chips? And second part of that question would be what kind of -- how many customers do you expect to manage to have in this area, because you start peddling lots of devices and lots of customers it gets really complicated, you start to look more like an OSAT. So I wonder if this is going to be a pretty small group of high volume products? And finally on -- as you attach -- are you actually doing a chip attach or will you be doing only the wafer level activity and will you be having -- working with the OSATs to do the actual chip attach? Thank you.

好的好的。把期望值設低一些，這樣很好。我想跟進這個 InFO，這很有趣。您能否更詳細地說明您到底要連接什麼，那麼我們談論的設備是什麼——就 CoWoS 而言，基本上都是 PLD 公司，還有一些基帶公司。那麼，在第一代不同的晶片之間，您附加了什麼設備？問題的第二部分是——您預計在這個領域能擁有多少客戶，因為您開始兜售大量的設備和大量的客戶，這變得非常複雜，您開始看起來更像 OSAT。所以我想知道這是否會成為一個相當小的、銷量很大的產品群？最後，在進行晶片連接時，您實際上是在進行晶片連接還是只進行晶圓級活動，並且是否會與 OSAT 合作進行實際的晶片連接？謝謝。

Dan, to answer your question, the InFO actually we're right now working on application processor together with memory dies. That's good enough for you. I cannot say anything more than that. We're working with mobile product customers and we did not -- we expect very high volume, but we did not with many, many customers as current status. We're working on the wafer level process, stacking die, and couple of them, we're able to do the complete line all here.

丹，回答你的問題，InFO 實際上我們現在正在研究應用處理器和記憶體晶片。這對你來說已經足夠了。我不能再多說什麼了。我們正在與行動產品客戶合作，我們預計銷量會非常高，但就目前情況而言，我們並沒有與許多客戶合作。我們正在研究晶圓級製程、堆疊晶片等，我們能夠在這裡完成整條生產線。

Thank you.

謝謝。

All right. We have a hand raised on the back of the room. I think this is from a media. Please say your name and the company you work for.

好的。房間後面有一隻手舉起來了。我認為這來自媒體。請說出您的姓名和所在公司。

I'm Mark from UDNTV. Just first congratulate on the TSMC on the very great quarter -- another great quarter. But I still have a -- just out of curiosity, I'm just wondering what the management team by now how is it they're managing that thing right now, because we're now obviously Morris is not here and I'm just wondering if that is a sign he is very confident that for both CEO right now here, and how do you divide work right now between Mark and C. C. just out of curiosity? And is TSMC shifting into a new generation management team?

我是 UDNTV 的馬克。首先恭喜台積電度過了一個非常出色的季度——又一個出色的季度。但我仍然有——只是出於好奇，我只是想知道現在的管理團隊是如何處理這件事的，因為我們現在顯然莫里斯不在，我只是想知道這是否是一個跡象，他非常有信心，對於現在的首席執行官來說，你現在是如何在馬克和 C.C. 之間分配工作的，只是出於好奇？台積電是否正換代為新一代管理團隊？

Well I'm delighted to work with C. C. Of course Chairman. We three contact constantly to devise new initiative for the Company all the time. And the rest I think is for you to judge.

嗯，我很高興與 C.C. 合作。當然，主席。我們三人不斷聯繫，不斷為公司製定新的措施。其餘的我想就由你們來判斷吧。

But how open is Morris to both of your ideas to the Company? I mean does he just let you guys do your expectation or does he still make the final decision?

但是莫里斯對你們兩個對公司的想法有多開放呢？我的意思是，他只是讓你們實現你們的期望嗎，還是他仍然做出最終決定？

Of course we -- everybody contribute ideas. Of course, decision usually is made together and -- but more than often we find wisdom talking, discussing with Morris, our Chairman, and that's we learn and that's the way we want to grow and up to his expectation I guess. Yeah.

當然，我們——每個人都貢獻想法。當然，決策通常是一起做出的——但更多的時候，我們會與董事長莫里斯進行智慧對話、討論，這就是我們的學習成果，我想，這也是我們想要成長並達到他期望的方式。是的。

Alright, I think in the interest of time, we will conclude our conference here today. Please be advised that the replay of the conference will be accessible within three hours from now. Transcript will become available 24 hours from now, both of which will be available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. Thank you for joining us today. We hope you will join us again next quarter. Goodbye and have a good day.

好吧，我想為了節省時間，我們今天的會議就到此結束。請注意，會議重播將在三小時內提供。文字記錄將在 24 小時後公佈，可透過台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 取得。感謝您今天加入我們。我們希望您下個季度能再次加入我們。再見，祝你有美好的一天。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the Company sponsoring this Event.

本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員說的。翻譯由贊助本次活動的公司提供。