普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Plug Power Q2 call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Teal Hoyos, Senior Director of Marketing and Communications. Thank you, Teal, you may begin.

您好，歡迎致電 Plug Power Q2。 （操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，營銷和傳播高級總監 Teal Hoyos。謝謝你，蒂爾，你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2023 Second Quarter Earnings Call. This call will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operations, or of our financial position or other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝。歡迎參加 2023 年第二季度收益電話會議。此次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包含對我們未來經營業績或我們的財務狀況或其他前瞻性信息的預測。我們希望這些前瞻性陳述受到 1933 年《證券法》第 27A 條和 1934 年《證券交易法》第 21E 條所載前瞻性陳述安全港條款的涵蓋。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements, and such statements should not be read or understood as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are based upon the current expectations, estimates, forecasts and projections as well as the current beliefs and assumptions of management and are subject to significant risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, the risk factors and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2022, quarterly results on Form 10-Q and other results we file from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的期望非常重要。然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被解讀或理解為對未來業績或結果的保證。此類陳述基於當前的預期、估計、預測和推測以及管理層當前的信念和假設，並受到重大風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果或業績與由於各種因素而討論的結果或業績存在重大差異。因素，包括但不限於我們截至2022 年12 月31 日的財年10-K 表格年度報告中第1A 項風險因素中討論的風險因素和不確定性、10 -Q 表格中的季度業績以及我們的其他結果不時向證券交易委員會提交文件。

These forward-looking statements speak only of the day in which the statements are made. And we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information. At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug's CEO, Andy Marsh.

這些前瞻性聲明僅涉及聲明發表之日。我們不承諾或打算在本次電話會議後或根據新信息更新任何前瞻性陳述。現在，我想將電話轉給 Plug 的首席執行官安迪·馬什 (Andy Marsh)。

Thank you, Teal, and thank you, everyone, for joining the Plug Second Quarter Conference Call. Plug's in the process of developing an unparallel hydrogen fuel cell platform. This encompasses our diverse array of products, extensive international collaborations backing from government entities, financial partners and our robust infrastructure. Our second quarter outcome reveals noticeable growth in several of our recently launched products, particularly in our cryogenic sector, which garnered $69 million in revenue, making a more than threefold rise over the previous year.

謝謝 Teal，也謝謝大家參加 Plug 第二季度電話會議。 Plug 正在開發無與倫比的氫燃料電池平台。這包括我們多樣化的產品、政府實體、金融合作夥伴支持的廣泛國際合作以及我們強大的基礎設施。我們第二季度的業績顯示，我們最近推出的幾種產品顯著增長，特別是在我們的低溫領域，該領域的收入為 6900 萬美元，比上一年增長了三倍多。

Our international collaborations are yielding positive results as well. Through our joint venture with Renault, the initial product from HYVIA has garnered positive reviews. Kilometres magazine, a renowned authority in the realm of commercial vehicles in France, bestowed the Heavy Commercial Vehicle of the Year 2023 award upon the Hyvia fuel cell electric vehicle master van. Through our partnership with SK, our joint venture, Hyverse, achieved a significant milestone as the first megawatt-scale electrolyzer to be certified in Korea. Our strong governmental backing spans across key global capitals from Washington, D.C. to Brussels, Helsinki, Paris and Seoul, Plug's called to be with robust connections with government authorities. Given the vital intersection, energy and climate change with governmental policies, we have proven ourselves as trustworthy experts capable of offering insights and impartial analysis on the path towards a carbon-neutral world.

我們的國際合作也正在取得積極成果。通過我們與雷諾的合資企業，HYVIA 的初始產品獲得了積極的評價。法國商用車領域知名權威《Kilometers》雜誌將2023年度重型商用車獎授予Hyvia燃料電池電動車主貨車。通過與 SK 的合作，我們的合資企業 Hyverse 實現了一個重要的里程碑，成為韓國首個獲得認證的兆瓦級電解槽。我們的強大政府支持遍及從華盛頓特區到布魯塞爾、赫爾辛基、巴黎和首爾的全球主要首都，Plug 呼籲與政府當局建立牢固的聯繫。鑑於能源和氣候變化與政府政策的重要交叉點，我們已經證明自己是值得信賴的專家，能夠為邁向碳中和世界的道路提供見解和公正的分析。

This strategic policy alignment is reaping rewards in the present as the American manufacturing company Plug generated a $10 million increase in gross margin dollars during the second quarter, attributed to the provisions promoting American made products under the IRA. We anticipate further advantages as we tack into manufacturing incentives within the IRA along with the production tax credit for hydrogen. The IRA is starting to pay dividends to Plug. Furthermore, we have actively secured multiple sources of non-dilutive capital as we diligently expand our global green hydrogen generation network. Presently, Plug is in the final stages of the second round of due diligence with the DOE loan program office for $1 billion project financing facilities. We have a term sheet, term sheet framework, and we're working through final processes to get this structure approved and lost.

這一戰略政策調整目前正在收穫回報，美國製造公司 Plug 在第二季度的毛利率增加了 1000 萬美元，這要歸功於 IRA 中推廣美國製造產品的規定。當我們在 IRA 內實施製造激勵措施以及氫氣生產稅收抵免時，我們預計會獲得更多優勢。 IRA 開始向 Plug 支付股息。此外，在我們努力擴大全球綠色氫能發電網絡的同時，我們還積極獲得多種非稀釋性資本來源。目前，Plug 正處於與美國能源部貸款計劃辦公室進行 10 億美元項目融資的第二輪盡職調查的最後階段。我們有一份投資意向書、投資意向書框架，並且我們正在完成最終流程，以使該結構獲得批准和放棄。

Simultaneously, we're assessing various options, including corporate debt facilities for major financial institutions, alternative infrastructure, project financing and solutions for ITC project financings. Lastly, the unmatched nature of our manufacturing infrastructure to substantiate not only by our internal evaluation, but also by feedback from customers and potential clients. Initially designed to support 2.5 gigawatts of MEAs, our Rochester facility now post a scalable potential of up to 7.5 gigawatts as we advanced the production process. Now, I had the privilege personally touring our Vista facility, our 400,000 square foot integration factory with a customer this past Tuesday. And quite honestly, they were astonished because they have been at everybody else's facilities. Additionally, our hydrogen play in Georgia, for which we are hosting an Investor Day on August 23, stand as the largest green hydrogen plant in North America.

同時，我們正在評估各種選擇，包括主要金融機構的企業債務融資、替代基礎設施、項目融資和 ITC 項目融資解決方案。最後，我們的製造基礎設施無與倫比的性質不僅可以通過我們的內部評估得到證實，還可以通過客戶和潛在客戶的反饋來證實。我們的羅徹斯特工廠最初設計用於支持 2.5 吉瓦的 MEA，現在隨著我們改進生產工藝，可擴展潛力高達 7.5 吉瓦。現在，我有幸在上週二與一位客戶親自參觀了我們的 Vista 工廠，即我們 400,000 平方英尺的集成工廠。老實說，他們很驚訝，因為他們去過其他人的設施。此外，我們在佐治亞州的氫工廠是北美最大的綠色氫工廠，我們將於 8 月 23 日舉辦投資者日活動。

Navigating the process of scaling our business presents its own set of challenges and our ability to surmount these challenges serve as a distinct advantage for Plug. One has been our gross margin challenges. What's not readily apparent is that excluding onetime charges, our margins in the second quarter would have been minus 12%, over 20% better than Q1. Throughout the rest of 2023, we will see continual margin expansion. An industry leader shared with me recently, the endeavor is truly valuable when it comes with its share of challenges and this, in the end, provides a differential advantage. The journey of mastering the construction of hydrogen plants, spanning factory capabilities, developing customers and concurrently introducing array of new products has undoubtedly been demanded. However, we firmly believe that the efforts investing in these undertakings will yield substantial benefits for all those vesting in Plug's success. At this point, Paul, Sanjay and I are prepared to address any questions you may have.

拓展業務的過程會帶來一系列挑戰，而我們克服這些挑戰的能力是 Plug 的獨特優勢。其中之一是我們的毛利率挑戰。不太明顯的是，如果不包括一次性費用，我們第二季度的利潤率將為-12%，比第一季度高出 20% 以上。在 2023 年剩餘時間內，我們將看到利潤率持續擴張。一位行業領導者最近與我分享，當面臨挑戰時，這種努力確實很有價值，並且最終提供了差異化優勢。掌握氫工廠建設、跨越工廠能力、開發客戶並同時推出一系列新產品的旅程無疑是需要的。然而，我們堅信，對這些事業的投資將為所有受益於 Plug 成功的人們帶來巨大的利益。此時，Paul、Sanjay 和我已準備好回答您可能提出的任何問題。

So I think we're up for questions.

所以我認為我們有必要提出問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Bill Peterson with JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自摩根大通的比爾·彼得森。

Lots to digest in release, so forgive me if we missed some things here. But I wanted to talk about the upcoming guidance in the U.S. treasury related to the IRA. And I know you had depressed confidence in the past, and it seems like there may be some positive news forthcoming. But first of all, when should we get some resolution on the additionality and matching things.

發布中需要消化很多東西，所以如果我們錯過了一些東西，請原諒我。但我想談談美國財政部即將出台的與愛爾蘭共和軍相關的指導意見。我知道你過去信心不足，看來可能會有一些積極的消息即將到來。但首先，我們什麼時候應該對額外性和匹配的事物做出一些解決。

And I guess if it was going to be unfavorable, I guess, about this PTC, how the economics compare between the U.S. hydrogen plant and a plant in Europe?

我想如果這對 PTC 不利的話，美國氫工廠和歐洲工廠之間的經濟性如何？

Really good question, Bill. And if I was going to -- let me answer the first part of your question. It's our assessment and it's the assessment of many people that we will see guidance in September. And I think that from what we can tell from the guidance, there was a good article by Bloomberg, which is consistent with discussions we've had with many senators, with people in the White House that I think that the regulations will be, I think, very reasonable in the end.

真是個好問題，比爾。如果我要——讓我回答你問題的第一部分。這是我們的評估，也是許多人的評估，我們將在 9 月份看到指導。我認為，從我們從指導中可以看出，彭博社發表了一篇很好的文章，這與我們與許多參議員和白宮人士進行的討論是一致的，我認為這些規定將是，我想想，最後還是很有道理的。

We look at these plants today. So there are differences between the energy cost in Europe versus the energy cost in the U.S. So if you take, for example, green hydrogen itself, if you think about a -- and I'm going to talk about generation without liquefaction, transportation, I think at $0.03 a kilowatt hour, you're talking probably around $2.50 in the U.S. to generate at a spot like Texas. If you think about Europe, and that would include the cost of production and the cost of depreciation, Bill, we would not include the cost of liquefaction or transportation. So liquefaction probably adds to that facility $0.75 just to kind of give you a gauge.

今天我們來看看這些植物。因此，歐洲的能源成本與美國的能源成本之間存在差異。因此，如果您以綠色氫本身為例，如果您考慮 - 我將討論無需液化、運輸的發電，我認為，按照每千瓦時0.03 美元計算，在美國德克薩斯州這樣的地方，發電成本可能約為2.50 美元。如果你考慮歐洲，這將包括生產成本和折舊成本，比爾，我們不會包括液化或運輸成本。因此液化可能會增加 0.75 美元，只是為了給你一個衡量標準。

In Europe, with the PTC, obviously, the PTC was structured to make sure that hydrogen was cost competitive with natural gas. So when you start adding on liquefaction, transportation, you're really probably talking about cost around, call it, $4.50 to $5 at a customer site for the best case, which would be Texas, which really puts hydrogen in the realm of natural gas. And I think that's the goal of the IRA. If you look at Europe, the support will be different. It's really more geared to -- if you really look at the total dollars that Europe is putting towards hydrogen fuel cells, we think those numbers sit around $870 billion, but much more how you work the government grant process.

在歐洲，PTC 顯然是為了確保氫氣與天然氣相比具有成本競爭力而構建的。因此，當你開始增加液化和運輸時，你可能真的會談論成本，最好的情況是在客戶現場 4.50 至 5 美元，這將是德克薩斯州，它真正將氫納入天然氣領域。我認為這就是愛爾蘭共和軍的目標。如果你看看歐洲，支持會有所不同。它實際上更適合——如果你真正看看歐洲在氫燃料電池上投入的總美元，我們認為這些數字約為 8700 億美元，但更重要的是你如何處理政府撥款流程。

That's why our international collaborations is real important because -- I know this is a long answer, Bill, but if you take, for example, our JV with HYVIA, we've been able to leverage over EUR 200 million in government grants to support the development of that business. Does that help, Bill?

這就是為什麼我們的國際合作非常重要，因為——我知道這是一個很長的答案，比爾，但如果你以我們與HYVIA 的合資企業為例，我們已經能夠利用超過2 億歐元的政府撥款來支持該業務的發展。這有幫助嗎，比爾？

Yes. No, that's super helpful. Maybe the second question for me is, it sounds like you're moving into next steps with some potential good promising outcome maybe with the DOE loan program office. But I guess what remains to be done? It sounds like you're in the second stage of due diligence. And what would be the timing given you successfully pass that bar?

是的。不，這非常有幫助。也許對我來說第二個問題是，聽起來您正在進入下一步，可能會與能源部貸款計劃辦公室取得一些潛在的良好有希望的結果。但我想還有什麼要做呢？聽起來您正處於盡職調查的第二階段。如果您成功通過該標準，那麼時間是什麼時候？

I'm going to hand that off to Paul, Bill.

我要把它交給保羅、比爾。

Bill, so there's a couple of things. Well, first and foremost, the good news is we've come together, as Andy alluded in his comments, with an outline of the term sheet that we think will work for us and that they can get passed. And so that's a big hurdle. And they're in the final -- now they're off to new races doing the final due diligence around market studies and technical studies and things that they just got to kind of finish that process.

比爾，有幾件事。嗯，首先也是最重要的，好消息是，正如安迪在評論中提到的那樣，我們已經走到了一起，制定了一份我們認為對我們有用並且可以通過的條款清單大綱。所以這是一個很大的障礙。他們進入了決賽——現在他們要參加新的比賽，圍繞市場研究和技術研究以及他們剛剛完成該過程的事情進行最後的盡職調查。

But I -- and then once we get through that, we'll -- there's a little bit of more polishing to finalize the term sheet in a format that they can submit through their process that they've got to go through the government agencies to get approved. So at this point, our best guess is that we would have something approved and be able to announce something hopefully mid-November to early December. We're all -- they are equally motivated to get it done fast as we possibly can. So we've got weekly meetings and efforts to try and push over those final hurdles. So we'll see how it plays, but that's kind of the time line and where we're at in that process.

但是我 - 一旦我們完成了這個工作，我們將 - 進行更多的修改，以他們可以通過他們必須通過政府機構的流程提交的格式最終確定條款清單獲得批准。因此，目前，我們最好的猜測是，我們將獲得批准並能夠在 11 月中旬至 12 月初宣布一些事情。我們所有人——他們都同樣有動力盡可能快地完成任務。因此，我們每週舉行會議並努力克服最後的障礙。所以我們會看看它是如何發揮的，但這就是時間線以及我們在這個過程中所處的位置。

Our next question comes from Eric Stine with Craig-Hallum.

我們的下一個問題來自埃里克·斯坦和克雷格·哈勒姆。

So I have not -- well, I haven't been able to digest the entire letter here. So I might come back to some questions. From your Investor Day, so you had talked about $4 billion in overall electrolyzer opportunities that you saw over the next 12 months. I'm curious whether that still holds -- whether that's accelerated and maybe what area is the market where you are seeing the most traction with that business?

所以我還沒有——嗯，我還沒能消化整封信。所以我可能會回到一些問題。從您的投資者日起，您就談到了您在未來 12 個月內看到的 40 億美元的整體電解槽機會。我很好奇這種情況是否仍然有效——這種情況是否會加速，也許您認為該業務在哪個市場領域最具吸引力？

Eric, I'm going to turn it over to Sanjay.

埃里克，我要把它交給桑傑。

Thank you, Andy. So -- since we last talked about that, the number is actually, if anything, gone up a bit. We are actually tracking about 7.5 gigawatt of opportunity as much as $5 billion of potential revenue opportunity for us on that business. And by the way, Eric, one of the things we've done is rather than talk about just the big funnel, we have actually identified project by project, right?

謝謝你，安迪。所以，自從我們上次討論這個問題以來，這個數字實際上（如果有的話）有所上升。實際上，我們正在追踪該業務中約 7.5 吉瓦的機會，高達 50 億美元的潛在收入機會。順便說一句，埃里克，我們所做的事情之一不僅僅是談論大漏斗，我們實際上已經一個項目一個項目地確定了，對嗎？

And these are the projects we believe could actually get to FID, final investment decision over the next 18 months. Now look, some of them might not materialize, some of them move faster than expected, but that's what the funnel sits at right now. And the mix is really -- when you really think about sort of the mix, there's a lot of opportunity here in the U.S., actually quite sizable projects. We're actually very, very far along with some of the sizable opportunity here. There is actually and you guys all saw that we announced this pretty big opportunity with a major oil and gas company in Europe, which we had talked about on our last earnings call, and there's lots of those opportunities in Europe as well as, in broadly speaking, in the Asia Pacific market as well. So again, we are certainly looking to close several more large electrolyzer deals here before the year is over, and that's where the funnel sits right now.

我們相信這些項目實際上可以在未來 18 個月內做出 FID（最終投資決定）。現在看，其中一些可能不會實現，其中一些比預期移動得更快，但這就是漏斗現在所處的位置。當你真正考慮某種組合時，這種組合確實存在，在美國有很多機會，實際上是相當大的項目。事實上，我們已經與這裡的一些相當大的機會相距甚遠。實際上，你們都看到了，我們宣布了與歐洲一家大型石油和天然氣公司的這個相當大的機會，我們在上次財報電話會議上談到了這一點，歐洲以及廣泛的領域都有很多這樣的機會。就亞太市場而言也是如此。因此，我們當然希望在今年結束之前在這裡完成幾筆大型電解槽交易，而這就是目前的漏斗所在。

And maybe Sanjay probably this is yours as well. I know a big topic a few months back was in terms of green hydrogen and although you've got very extensive plans, whether that actually is going to end up being enough. And also kind of the open question of how much do you keep for your customers? And how much do you keep open that you might sell in the market? So maybe some updated thoughts on that would be great.

也許桑傑這也是你的。我知道幾個月前的一個大話題是綠色氫，儘管你有非常廣泛的計劃，但這是否真的足夠。還有一個懸而未決的問題，即您為客戶保留多少？您持有多少持倉量可以在市場上出售？所以也許對此有一些更新的想法會很棒。

Yes, sure, Eric, right? I mean a couple of things. Look, I mean, our bringing of green hydrogen plants online is a key to really expanding and improving our fuel business margin. We've talked about that again and again, right? I think once we start to produce internally, that actually reduces our cost of green hydrogen by 1/3 versus what we're having to pay right now in the market. So it's a step change, if you would, right?

是的，當然，埃里克，對吧？我的意思是幾件事。聽著，我的意思是，我們將綠色氫工廠上線是真正擴大和提高我們燃料業務利潤率的關鍵。我們已經一次又一次地討論過這個問題，對吧？我認為，一旦我們開始內部生產，與我們目前在市場上支付的成本相比，我們的綠色氫成本實際上會降低 1/3。所以，如果你願意的話，這是一個巨大的改變，對嗎？

And the way, the cadence of that is really Georgia, then Louisiana, then Texas, then New York, right? And obviously, our existing plant in Tennessee. So once we have Texas up and running, that's when you actually start to see our fuel business turn profitable. That is still buying from the third party under some of the existing contract right now. So our primary goal is to really make sure that we're supporting our customer in our existing application business to make sure that the resiliency is there, we're supporting them 24/7, it's a mission-critical application for them and simultaneously expand our fuel margin.

順便說一句，這種節奏確實是佐治亞州，然後是路易斯安那州，然後是德克薩斯州，然後是紐約，對吧？顯然，我們在田納西州現有的工廠。因此，一旦德克薩斯州啟動並運行，您就可以真正開始看到我們的燃料業務開始盈利。目前仍在根據部分現有合同從第三方購買。因此，我們的主要目標是真正確保我們在現有的應用程序業務中支持客戶，以確保彈性，我們為他們提供 24/7 的支持，這對他們來說是一個關鍵任務應用程序，同時擴展我們的燃油利潤。

Now from the third-party opportunity perspective, Eric, I mean, the funnel is actually bigger than 500 tons opportunity. But near-term focus is really how do we make sure that we have enough for our material handling business, how do we make sure we have enough for our application business, so that the application business in terms of your stationary product ends up really having a good total cost of ownership for our end customer, then we really start to think about swap opportunity. No real change in the view. We still want to have about 20% reserve capacity to be able to support all the force majeure that we've seen here in this liquid hydrogen market in North America, but that's really where we are right now, Eric. Andy, would you like to add anything?

現在從第三方機會的角度來看，Eric，我的意思是，漏斗實際上比 500 噸機會更大。但近期的重點實際上是我們如何確保我們有足夠的材料處理業務，我們如何確保我們有足夠的應用業務，以便固定產品方面的應用業務最終真正擁有為我們的最終客戶提供良好的總擁有成本，然後我們真正開始考慮交換機會。觀點沒有真正的改變。我們仍然希望擁有大約 20% 的儲備能力，以能夠支持我們在北美液氫市場中看到的所有不可抗力，但這確實是我們現在的處境，埃里克。安迪，你想補充什麼嗎？

No, I think you covered it, Sanjay.

不，我想你已經涵蓋了，Sanjay。

Our next question comes from James West with Evercore ISI.

我們的下一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 James West。

So curious how you guys are thinking about green hydrogen production in Europe. We obviously know the strategy in the U.S. You've got a variety of projects in Europe, but I suspect there's more to come. What's the -- I guess what's the broader strategy to attack the European market with green hydrogen?

很好奇你們如何看待歐洲的綠色氫生產。我們顯然知道美國的戰略。歐洲有各種各樣的項目，但我懷疑還會有更多項目。我想用綠色氫攻擊歐洲市場的更廣泛戰略是什麼？

Yes. Good question, [James]. Let me take a step back. We believe that when you look at the cost of energy and the availability of green molecules, most of that's going to exist in the Northern Cone and the Southern Cone of Europe. As we mentioned in the letter, with ACCIONA, we're looking to have the first 15-ton plant commissioned by the later half of 2024.

是的。好問題，[詹姆斯]。讓我退後一步。我們相信，當您考慮能源成本和綠色分子的可用性時，其中大部分將存在於歐洲的北錐體和南錐體。正如我們在信中提到的，我們希望與 ACCIONA 合作，在 2024 年下半年之前投產第一座 15 噸工廠。

The Port of Antwerp will support a good deal of our activities, which are going on in France, as well as supporting some activities in Germany, which will be a 35-ton plant, which initial hydrogen production in 2025. As we've talked about, Finland is an area we're spending a good deal of time where we feel we'll be able to support up to 10% of European's internal goals by 2030 with FID in 2026. So that's a big focus. There are smaller activities going on for smaller plants in France and Germany to support, especially our material handling and stationary customers. But that's kind of -- I think you'll see most of the activity. And we have land we own now in Denmark and other places, which provides opportunities that we've looked at, which could become sites for building out large hydrogen plants. Now, the key item in Denmark and Finland is that both of them are looking to put hydrogen pipelines into Central Europe. So that is the real focus of Plug.

安特衛普港將支持我們在法國進行的大量活動，以及在德國的一些活動，這將是一座 35 噸的工廠，將於 2025 年開始生產氫氣。正如我們所說芬蘭是我們花費大量時間的一個領域，我們認為通過2026 年的FID，到2030 年我們將能夠支持歐洲高達10% 的內部目標。所以這是一個重點。法國和德國的小型工廠正在進行一些較小的活動來支持，特別是我們的物料搬運和固定客戶。但我想你會看到大部分活動。我們現在在丹麥和其他地方擁有自己的土地，這提供了我們所關注的機會，這些機會可能成為建造大型氫工廠的地點。現在，丹麥和芬蘭的關鍵項目是兩國都希望將氫氣管道引入中歐。所以這才是 Plug 真正的重點。

And then do you guys see a scenario playing out in the EU or Europe broadly that's similar, I mean they have the green industrial plan, which is kind of the counter to the IRA, but there's not a ton of detail out there. But do you see something similar to what the IRA is doing for? There could be something similar to what the IRA is doing for green hydrogen in the U.S., it's kind of supercharging the market?

然後你們是否看到歐盟或歐洲廣泛出現的類似情況，我的意思是他們有綠色工業計劃，這是愛爾蘭共和軍的反擊，但那裡沒有太多細節。但您是否看到了與 IRA 所做的類似的事情？可能會有類似於愛爾蘭共和軍在美國為綠色氫所做的事情，這對市場來說是一種增壓？

We do -- and we do, James. And when we look at it, and I'm going to say on paper, it appears to us the dollars that have been allocated in Europe are larger than the dollars allocated in the U.S. The advantage U.S. has is the fact that it's much more of a public market activity so that since it's based on tax credit, it's easier to navigate.

我們確實如此，我們確實如此，詹姆斯。當我們看到這一點時，我要在紙面上說，在我們看來，分配給歐洲的美元比分配給美國的美元多。美國的優勢在於，它的資金更多公開市場活動，因此由於它基於稅收抵免，因此更容易操作。

But we do see in Europe that the overall dollars between now and 2030 could exceed the U.S. And look, that's why we have partners like ACCIONA. That's why we partner very closely with the Port of Antwerp. We're -- now you really need the right -- for a company like Plug, you really need the right European partners to really leverage that expansion.

但我們確實看到，從現在到 2030 年，歐洲的美元總額可能會超過美國，這就是我們擁有像 ACCIONA 這樣的合作夥伴的原因。這就是我們與安特衛普港密切合作的原因。我們——現在你真的需要正確的——對於像 Plug 這樣的公司，你真的需要正確的歐洲合作夥伴來真正利用這種擴張。

Our next question comes from Manav Gupta with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的馬納夫·古普塔。

So Sanjay kind of alluded to this, but refining is a massive market opportunity as it relates to replacing gray hydrogen. You actually announced an order in Europe, one of the bigger ones to replace gray hydrogen with green hydrogen. Do you see this segment end market growing? And someday, even U.S. refiners looking to source green hydrogen and replace their gray hydrogen. I'm not sure if you saw yesterday, but there's a public independent refiner who basically on their earnings call said we are looking for electrolyzers to make green hydrogen to support our SAF. So as an end market for U.S. refining or Europe refining, how you're thinking about that?

桑傑（Sanjay）提到了這一點，但煉油是一個巨大的市場機會，因為它涉及替代灰氫。實際上，您在歐洲宣布了一項訂單，這是用綠氫取代灰氫的最大訂單之一。您認為這個細分市場的終端市場正在增長嗎？有一天，即使是美國煉油廠也希望採購綠色氫並取代灰色氫。我不確定你昨天是否看到了，但有一家公共獨立煉油商基本上在財報電話會議上表示，我們正在尋找電解槽來生產綠色氫來支持我們的 SAF。那麼，作為美國煉油或歐洲煉油的終端市場，您對此有何看法？

I'm going to let Sanjay take that.

我會讓 Sanjay 接受。

So a couple of comments, Manav, right? Short answer is yes. We certainly see that as a pretty meaningful opportunity. It absolutely makes a lot of sense. And frankly, this is where production tax credit really play a major role to make it a level playing field as Andy was talking about it from a price competitive standpoint versus gray hydrogen and green hydrogen in some of these markets, right, where the economics start to make sense, pricing start to make sense.

所以有一些評論，馬納夫，對吧？簡短的回答是肯定的。我們當然認為這是一個非常有意義的機會。這絕對是有道理的。坦率地說，這就是生產稅收抵免真正發揮重要作用的地方，使其成為一個公平的競爭環境，因為安迪從價格競爭的角度談論它，與其中一些市場中的灰氫和綠氫相比，右，經濟的起點為了有意義，定價開始有意義。

Economic value proposition for the customer that are looking to be decarbonized makes a lot of sense. So -- and as you know, from the industrial opportunity perspective, refining industry is actually a very large user of gray hydrogen and existing opportunity today. We do see this as a major electrolyzer sales opportunity, number one. Second, it could even lead into something like a build-own-operate model for us. And we do have several of those discussions going on, not just in Europe but also in the U.S. market. Hard to say exactly when they materialize and end up becoming a concrete opportunity, but we have multiple of those opportunities. And these are gigawatts and gigawatts of electrolyzer that, that industry is going to need in terms of really going from gray to green hydrogen.

對於尋求脫碳的客戶來說，經濟價值主張很有意義。因此，正如您所知，從工業機會的角度來看，煉油行業實際上是灰氫和當今現有機會的一個非常大的用戶。我們確實認為這是一個主要的電解槽銷售機會，位居第一。其次，它甚至可能為我們帶來類似“構建-擁有-運營”的模式。我們確實正在進行一些這樣的討論，不僅在歐洲，而且在美國市場。很難確切地說它們何時實現並最終成為一個具體的機會，但我們有多個這樣的機會。這些是數十億瓦的電解槽，該行業將真正從灰氫轉向綠氫。

And one thing that's actually somewhat very unique for Plug, if you would, right? And this is what we talked about as our enterprise sales opportunity and really trying to serve to the customer's need. If they want to buy hydrogen, we can certainly approach it as a build-own-operate model where we own the electrolyzer, supply them hydrogen behind the fence, if you would. We can do that. And if they are just looking to buy it as a capital equipment, of course, we are the company that has the scale and the Gigafactory that can support the kind of the demand and the needs that they have. But rest assured, we got a lot of those discussions going on both in the U.S. as well as in Europe, and we certainly see this being a big opportunity.

對於 Plug 來說，有一件事情實際上是非常獨特的，如果你願意的話，對吧？這就是我們所說的企業銷售機會，並真正努力滿足客戶的需求。如果他們想購買氫氣，我們當然可以將其視為一種建造-擁有-運營的模式，我們擁有電解槽，如果您願意的話，可以在柵欄後面向他們提供氫氣。我們能做到這一點。如果他們只是想購買它作為資本設備，當然，我們是一家擁有規模和超級工廠的公司，可以支持他們的需求類型和需求。但請放心，我們在美國和歐洲都進行了很多此類討論，我們當然認為這是一個巨大的機會。

I have one quick follow-up. Recently, you introduced your HL 1500, the market's first portable hydrogen refueler. I wanted to follow up on it. How are the conversations with potential customers going with that product? Do you see that product making an impact to your top line in '24 and '25?

我有一個快速跟進。最近，您推出了 HL 1500，這是市場上首款便攜式加氫器。我想跟進一下。與該產品的潛在客戶的對話進展如何？您認為該產品對您 24 年和 25 年的收入產生影響嗎？

I'm going to hand that one over to Sanjay also.

我也將把它交給 Sanjay。

Thanks, Andy. Again, Manav, so we're actually sold out with that product for this year. So that's how the demand is. We have transit companies that are super interested in it. We actually have -- that even opens up some of the traditional existing market for us even on a smaller size because of that mobile refueler. It actually has a lot of application for fuel cell electric vehicle companies that are looking to launch Class 7 and Class 8 truck before the whole infrastructure gets built out, right? So we're completely sold out. It's a very good margin business for us as well within our cryogenic business. You will see a big impact in Q4 of this year with that revenue. We see substantial growth coming out of that business, both in 2024 as well as 2025, and this product already has a gross margin that is within our corporate target that we have articulated in the past.

謝謝，安迪。再說一次，馬納夫，所以我們今年的該產品實際上已經賣完了。所以需求就是這樣的。我們有一些運輸公司對此非常感興趣。實際上，由於移動加油機，我們甚至為我們打開了一些傳統的現有市場，即使尺寸較小。對於那些希望在整個基礎設施建成之前推出 7 級和 8 級卡車的燃料電池電動汽車公司來說，它實際上有很多應用，對嗎？所以我們已經完全賣完了。這對我們來說是一項利潤非常豐厚的業務，在我們的低溫業務中也是如此。您將在今年第四季度看到該收入產生的巨大影響。我們預計該業務在 2024 年和 2025 年都會出現大幅增長，並且該產品的毛利率已經在我們過去製定的企業目標之內。

Thank you, so much. And this is all very positive.

太感謝了。這一切都是非常積極的。

I would just add, Sanjay, it is so critical to transition because if you're thinking about going with 5 or 6 buses to start? Or you're trying to think about using 4 or 5 vehicles, this is a tailor-made product to really support the development of the industry. And it -- it is really a unique offering.

我想補充一點，Sanjay，過渡非常重要，因為如果您考慮使用 5 或 6 輛巴士來啟動？或者你正在嘗試考慮使用4或5輛車，這是一個量身定制的產品，真正支持行業的發展。它確實是一個獨特的產品。

Our next question comes from Colin Rusch with Oppenheimer.

我們的下一個問題來自科林·魯什和奧本海默。

As you guys look at some of the challenges in and around interconnection for renewables and some of the larger power systems, can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing in terms of incremental project development demand on the stationary power side, but also how folks are thinking about potentially diverting some of that power into hydrogen to avoid some of the interconnection challenges?

當你們審視可再生能源和一些大型電力系統互連方面的一些挑戰時，您能否談談您在固定電力方面增量項目開發需求方面所看到的情況，以及人們如何考慮將部分電力轉移到氫氣中以避免一些互連挑戰？

It is -- so Jose, who's not with us today, is -- we are seeing substantial demand and activities associated with especially powering EV vehicles for folks who want fleets for delivery vans. People want buses which are electric vehicles, where the availability of the grid, yes, is not there. No, we have orders that we could ship up to 17 megawatts this year.

今天不在場的何塞是這樣說的，我們看到了與電動汽車相關的大量需求和活動，這些需求和活動特別適合那些需要送貨貨車車隊的人們。人們想要電動汽車的公交車，是的，那裡沒有電網。不，我們今年的訂單可以運送高達 17 兆瓦的電力。

Next year, our internal forecast show 50 to 75 megawatts. I think everywhere we go, that is a challenge and that the stationary product really helps people overcome that challenge. I really like that market because it's really, to me, like the work we're doing with SK and for Hyverse, it's really to us the future peaker plant that we're getting all this learning, developing these products, which eventually will replace gas turbines and will sit side by side with solar and wind generating hydrogen during the off -- when the wind is blowing, using the stationary to back up wind and solar farms as well as ultimately how nuclear rolls out. There's really a close correlation for peakers.

我們的內部預測顯示明年將達到 50 至 75 兆瓦。我認為無論我們走到哪裡，這都是一個挑戰，而固定產品確實可以幫助人們克服這一挑戰。我真的很喜歡這個市場，因為對我來說，這真的就像我們與SK 和Hyverse 所做的工作一樣，對我們來說，這真的是未來的峰值工廠，我們正在學習、開發這些產品，最終將取代燃氣輪機將與太陽能和風力發電並排，在風吹的時候，利用固定裝置來支持風能和太陽能發電場以及最終核能的推廣。對於巔峰者來說確實有密切的相關性。

We think it's the perfect product. I always like to say to our team, this is generation #2 at the moment, and it's quite a product. I expect that this will go through learning curve after learning curve and there'll be generation after generation. But that demand is real, and that is a real headache to the development of EVs. It's a real head -- which we think is important for climate change, but it is a real, real problem.

我們認為這是完美的產品。我總是喜歡對我們的團隊說，這是目前的第二代產品，它是一個非常好的產品。我預計這將經歷一個又一個的學習曲線，並且會一代又一代。但這種需求是真實存在的，這對電動汽車的發展來說是一個真正令人頭痛的問題。這是一個真正的頭腦——我們認為這對氣候變化很重要，但這是一個真正的問題。

It's also this connection issue is why the debate going on with additionality, really doesn't make any sense to us. And that it is something that we know that the White House and others know, it is a huge problem. When you sit with Senator, Manchin, we talk a lot about interconnect and permitting and what it means for electric vehicles as well as what it means for how you meet the 2050 U.S. climate goals.

這也是為什麼關於額外性的爭論對我們來說確實沒有任何意義的原因。我們知道白宮和其他人都知道這一點，這是一個巨大的問題。當您與 Manchin 參議員坐在一起時，我們談論了很多關於互聯和許可的問題，以及這對電動汽車意味著什麼，以及這對如何實現 2050 年美國氣候目標意味著什麼。

And then if you guys continue to scale and look at shorter time frames on some of these projects. Can you talk a little bit about the evolution of your supply chain and their willingness to invest in incremental capacity to support your growth?

然後，如果你們繼續擴大規模並考慮縮短其中一些項目的時間框架。您能否談談您的供應鏈的演變以及他們投資增量產能以支持您的增長的意願？

I spent -- that's actually why I spent my whole afternoon on. And we've announced, obviously, one critical supplier, Johnson Matthey, who's moving forward with us. We have others in the electrolyzer business. If you think about -- let's take an electrolyzer, what do I worry about? I worry about items like -- I worry about rectifiers and making sure suppliers are well positioned to support our own internal needs. I worry about control panels. I worry about fabricators.

我花了——這實際上就是我花了整個下午的原因。顯然，我們已經宣布了一位重要的供應商莊信万豐 (Johnson Matthey)，他將與我們一起前進。我們還有其他從事電解槽業務的公司。如果你想一下——讓我們使用電解槽，我擔心什麼？我擔心諸如整流器之類的問題，並確保供應商能夠很好地支持我們自己的內部需求。我擔心控制面板。我擔心製造商。

And for all those 3 items, I think, Plug -- and I think we should probably publicly go more about who those partners are, probably can't do it on this call. We need to kind of clear with them, but we have been developing relationships, and we do see people making investments. And I think what you'll see is that we've been trying to think through a campus approach at facilities like our Rochester facilities leveraging our government relations to really help bring companies into places like New York and West Virginia to support our future needs.

對於所有這 3 項，我認為，Plug - 我認為我們可能應該公開更多地了解這些合作夥伴是誰，但在這次電話會議上可能無法做到這一點。我們需要與他們澄清，但我們一直在發展關係，而且我們確實看到人們進行投資。我認為您會看到的是，我們一直在嘗試在羅切斯特等設施中考慮校園方法，利用我們的政府關係，真正幫助公司進入紐約和西弗吉尼亞州等地，以滿足我們未來的需求。

Our next question comes from Jeff Osborne with TD Cowen.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jeff Osborne 和 TD Cowen。

Just had a couple of questions on the Georgia facility, I was wondering if you can give us an update on how the commissioning process is going. I seem to recall that I was expecting that to be up and running, I thought in early August or July, and now it still seems like you're making gaseous hydrogen. So I was just curious, have you actually liquefied anything at this point or run it at full theme? Is there any comments you can give us on utilization or capacity factors on how it's performing?

剛剛對佐治亞州工廠有幾個問題，我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹調試過程的最新情況。我似乎記得我在八月初或七月的時候就預計它會啟動並運行，但現在看起來仍然是在製造氣態氫。所以我只是很好奇，你現在是否真的液化了任何東西或以完整主題運行它？您是否可以就其性能的利用率或容量因素向我們提供任何意見？

Yes. Sure, Jeff. So again, I think we're fairly -- look, we feel very confident that we're going to be producing liquid in Q3. Right now, we're essentially going through ramping up electrolyzer, right? We've actually tried to electrolyze this one. You know that we've been producing gaseous hydrogen there with our gaseous hydrogen plant. We're in a process of actually ramping up our liquefiers in a process of cooling down the liquefaction trains.

是的。當然，傑夫。再說一遍，我認為我們非常有信心在第三季度生產液體。現在，我們基本上正在經歷提高電解槽的速度，對吧？我們實際上已經嘗試過電解這個。您知道我們一直在用我們的氣態氫工廠生產氣態氫。在冷卻液化列車的過程中，我們實際上正在提高液化器的產量。

So again, that's why we're hosting our Analyst Day there on August 23, right, so that we can actually show to you all exactly what's happening there and what's going on. So at the moment here, are we producing liquid? We're not producing liquid today, but we are essentially ramping up the electrolyzer on path to be able to produce that liquid. And Jeff, one of the key things here, right, I do want to stress this one particular point is, obviously, look, and I'm just going to take the point that's an elephant in the room, if you would. We clearly recognize that we've been 3 to 6 months behind than what we originally wanted it to be. But having said that, this plant is still coming online in 12 months since we actually issued the EPC contract, number one.

再說一遍，這就是我們在 8 月 23 日舉辦分析師日的原因，這樣我們就可以向大家準確地展示那裡正在發生的事情和正在發生的事情。那麼目前我們正在生產液體嗎？我們今天不生產液體，但我們基本上正在提高電解槽的產量，以便能夠生產這種液體。傑夫，這裡的關鍵事情之一，對，我確實想強調這一點，顯然，看，如果你願意的話，我只想採取房間裡的大像這一點。我們清楚地認識到，我們比最初的預期落後了 3 到 6 個月。但話雖如此，自我們實際簽發第一號 EPC 合同以來，該工廠仍在 12 個月內上線。

And number two, we also wanted to make sure this is a first-of-a-kind integrated electrolyzer liquefier on-site storage. So there are steps we want to make sure that we're taking from a safety standpoint, from the long-term operational benefit of the plant. So long story and a quick comment, we are going to be producing liquid here in the month of August. We're very much looking forward to hosting you all on August 23, and we're essentially wrapping up the plant at this point in time.

第二，我們還想確保這是第一個集成電解槽液化器現場存儲。因此，我們希望確保從安全角度和工廠的長期運營效益角度採取一些措施。故事很長，評論很快，我們將在八月份在這裡生產液體。我們非常期待 8 月 23 日接待大家，此時我們基本上已經完成了工廠的建設。

And filling trailers.

並填充拖車。

Look forward to being there in person. Just one quick clarification on Georgia and then a second question. Is this -- you're in the release of those 2.5 tons a day, have you run at full steam on the electrolysis side?

期待您親自到場。我先簡單澄清一下有關格魯吉亞的問題，然後問第二個問題。這是 - 你每天釋放 2.5 噸，你在電解方面是否全速運轉？

Yes, that is correct. Jeff, we actually have filled high-pressure tube trailers for third-party customer many times at that site. And the way we wanted to do that, right, and this is very important for us to do, make sure that we're running that force gas plant, optimize the gas plant, get the learnings from that gas plant, so that you can take all of that learnings from a control perspective, ramp up the electrolyzer perspective, all the safety perspective when you actually are now ramping up the entire 40 megawatt of electrolyzer to support 15 tons of liquid production.

對，那是正確的。傑夫，我們實際上已經在該地點多次為第三方客戶填充高壓長管拖車。我們想要做到這一點的方式，對吧，這對我們來說非常重要，確保我們正在運行那個強制天然氣工廠，優化天然氣工廠，從那個天然氣工廠獲得經驗教訓，這樣你就可以當您實際上正在提高整個40 兆瓦的電解槽以支持15 噸液體生產時，從控制角度吸收所有這些知識，提高電解槽的角度，所有安全角度。

And Jeff, to a point where we've actually initiated expansion of that 15-ton now to a 30-ton liquid plant at the site because of how we felt about what has gone so far from a 15-ton production perspective.

傑夫，我們實際上已經開始將現場的 15 噸液體工廠擴建為 30 噸液體工廠，因為我們對從 15 噸生產角度來看迄今為止發生的情況有何感受。

The electrolyzers aren't really anything we're really thinking much about. We know they work absolutely.

電解槽並不是我們真正考慮的任何東西。我們知道它們絕對有效。

To follow up with just on the hydrogen hubs, how are you positioned for that? And what do you think the timing of the awards are from the government process there?

就氫中心而言，您對此有何定位？您認為政府程序中的頒獎時間是怎樣的？

Jeff, I think the hydrogen hub and the IRA are really closely connected. There was a letter which was released by the State of New York, the State of Massachusetts, State of Connecticut, State of Maine, that to make this a nationwide hydrogen hub, the IRA regulations need to be -- for the PTC needs to be based in over a long period of time. I spoke to the New York Governor about that actually just yesterday.

傑夫，我認為氫中心和愛爾蘭共和軍確實緊密相連。紐約州、馬薩諸塞州、康涅狄格州、緬因州發布了一封信，表示要使之成為全國性的氫中心，IRA 法規需要——因為 PTC 需要立足於很長一段時間。實際上就在昨天，我與紐約州州長談過此事。

And it is -- I think we see more activity come the fourth quarter for some initial grants. But for this to become a nationwide network, it's not just the hubs. It's the hubs coupled with the IRA. And this is something that if you read the letter the State of New York and the other states put in, the treasury really makes clear that if they really limit it, the IRA regulations, which I don't think will be the case, that the impact will be much more modest because the $9 billion, quite honestly, is a good deal of money. But it's not really what's going to drive a hydrogen economy. It's kind of like I look at $50 billion for chip facilities seem like a lot of money, but you really need large support from other elements to make that successful. The same thing holds true for hydrogen. We expect some announcements in the fourth quarter, but it will be a little bit of dollars and more and more will start flowing out.

我認為我們會在第四季度看到更多的初始撥款活動。但要使其成為一個全國性的網絡，不僅僅是樞紐。它是與 IRA 連接的樞紐。如果你讀過紐約州和其他州提交的信函，財政部確實明確表示，如果他們真的限制的話，IRA 法規（我認為情況不會如此）影響會小得多，因為老實說，90 億美元是一筆不菲的資金。但這並不是真正推動氫經濟的因素。就好像我認為 500 億美元用於芯片設施似乎是一大筆錢，但你確實需要其他因素的大力支持才能取得成功。同樣的情況也適用於氫。我們預計第四季度會發布一些公告，但這只是一點美元，而且越來越多的資金將開始流出。

Our next question comes from Ameet Thakkar with BMO Capital.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO Capital 的 Ameet Thakkar。

Just real quick. Just thinking about kind of the cadence of kind of cash needs for the balance of the year. It looks like between kind of cash flow from operations and your CapEx today, you've kind of -- you're kind of burned about $1 billion in cash. And I know you guys mentioned maybe $1 billion from the DOE program. Would that be funded all at once and then kind of cover your kind of your Georgia, New York and Texas (inaudible). Is that how we should think about it?

真的很快。只是考慮一下今年剩餘時間的現金需求節奏。看起來，在運營現金流和今天的資本支出之間，你燒掉了大約 10 億美元的現金。我知道你們提到能源部計劃可能提供 10 億美元。是否會一次性全部提供資金，然後覆蓋您所在的佐治亞州、紐約州和德克薩斯州（聽不清）。我們應該這樣思考嗎？

I'm going to turn the cash questions over to Paul here. Paul?

我要把現金問題轉交給保羅。保羅？

Thanks for the question. I guess a couple of things I would share with you. First and foremost, when you look at the volume that we're projecting, it's almost double or more in the second half. So there was a pretty heavy investment in working capital preparing for all of these new offerings, scaling up electrolyzer, scaling up stationary, scaling up mobility solutions, pretty heavy investments in inventory. We actually expect that to come down. So I expect to have that from an impact standpoint, either flat to actually generating cash for us in the second half.

謝謝你的提問。我想有幾件事我想與大家分享。首先也是最重要的，當你看看我們預計的交易量時，你會發現下半年幾乎是兩倍或更多。因此，在營運資本上進行了大量投資，為所有這些新產品做準備，擴大電解槽，擴大固定規模，擴大移動解決方案，對庫存進行大量投資。我們實際上預計這一數字會下降。因此，我預計從影響的角度來看，下半年要么持平，要么實際為我們創造現金。

Second thing is, when you look at, as Andy shared, all of the traction, we're making with growing volume as well as the cost down, that's going to impact our operating -- our margin profile. So that helps as well. So you should see a softening of that in the second half. The short answer to your question is on the DOE program, we're -- until it's done, it's not done. But the timing of exactly how that will play will be -- to be determined in terms of the inflow. We are actually working, again, as Andy mentioned, with other solutions as well. I think if you look at the next couple of years, there's going to be a combination of debt solutions from corporate debt to project finance, to enhanced ITC financings. And all of those things, you'll see more of -- from us in the coming months as we start to enroll some of those solutions. And so it's going to come from one of those programs in the short term, midterm and long term as we roll all of those solutions out.

第二件事是，正如安迪分享的那樣，當你看到我們隨著產量的增長和成本的下降而獲得的所有牽引力時，這將影響我們的運營——我們的利潤狀況。所以這也有幫助。所以你應該會看到下半年情況有所緩和。對你的問題的簡短回答是關於能源部的計劃，我們——直到它完成為止，它還沒有完成。但具體如何發揮作用的時間將根據資金流入來確定。正如安迪提到的，我們實際上也在研究其他解決方案。我認為，如果你展望未來幾年，將會出現從公司債務到項目融資，再到增強的 ITC 融資等一系列債務解決方案。所有這些事情，當我們開始註冊其中一些解決方案時，您將在未來幾個月內從我們那裡看到更多內容。因此，當我們推出所有這些解決方案時，它將來自短期、中期和長期的這些計劃之一。

And just one quick housekeeping question. In the investor letter, I know you guys reiterated kind of the revenue guide for the year. I didn't see that for the gross margins. I was just wondering if you could kind of level set us on that for the year?

還有一個簡單的內務問題。在投資者的信中，我知道你們重申了今年的收入指南。我沒有看到毛利率。我只是想知道你是否可以為我們設定今年的目標？

Yes. We didn't necessarily give specific updates on the full year margin profile. But I think when you look at the second half, you're going to see tremendous sequential progress. I mean it's going to be really -- you're going to see a big step function in Q3, the volume growth and then even more substantial step function in Q4 as we deliver the back half.

是的。我們不一定會提供全年利潤率概況的具體更新。但我認為，當你看下半場時，你會看到巨大的連續進展。我的意思是，這將是真的——你將在第三季度看到一個大的階躍函數，銷量增長，然後在我們交付後半部分時，在第四季度看到更實質性的階躍函數。

It's probably in the 30%, 40% range of sales for the back half in Q3 and then kind of in the 50%, 60% range, giving you rough ranges there in terms of volume in the fourth quarter. And when you get to that high level of sales, it's very accretive. And especially when you think about the complement of equipment programs that are in there. So we expect sequential growth and you're going to see strong performance and strong growth in the margin profile as we progress through the year.

第三季度後半段的銷售額可能在 30%、40% 範圍內，然後在 50%、60% 範圍內，這為您提供了第四季度銷量的粗略範圍。當你達到如此高的銷售水平時，它會非常增值。尤其是當您考慮其中的設備程序的補充時。因此，我們預計會出現環比增長，隨著今年的進展，您將看到強勁的業績和利潤率的強勁增長。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Amit Dayal with H.C. Wainwright.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Amit Dayal 和 H.C.溫賴特。

So Andy, you highlighted moving selling prices higher in your investor letter. Can you talk a little bit about which product offerings you're targeting first for this effort and then how this translates into the rest of our portfolio?

安迪，您在投資者信中強調了提高銷售價格。您能否談談您首先針對這項工作提供哪些產品，然後如何將其轉化為我們產品組合的其餘部分？

Yes. I will -- let me -- I'll highlight one platform that we think there's real opportunities because we have our capabilities far exceed the competition. We know and we've seen that as we've tested the market that there are real opportunities in the electrolyzer business. And that's a platform that we've seen that based on the fact that the demand is there and the supply when you really look at people's infrastructure doesn't exist, we think there is a good opportunity to raise prices.

是的。我將——讓我——我將強調一個我們認為存在真正機會的平台，因為我們的能力遠遠超過競爭對手。我們知道並且我們已經看到，在我們測試市場時，電解槽業務存在真正的機會。這是一個我們看到的平台，基於這樣一個事實，即需求存在，而當你真正審視人們的基礎設施時，供應並不存在，我們認為這是一個提價的好機會。

And we know that because we have it and we've been winning orders. So that's one area that's clear to me that there's real opportunities. So I think that we've seen across all of our segments, again, because I think because of our unique position and our experience that there are more opportunities than we've been able to take advantage of the past. And look, it's really very closely tied to all the investments we've made in infrastructure with facilities, with our hydrogen plants, with our resources around the world that we sit at the table with a great deal of credibility that we can deliver, which I think uniquely positions us and which creates additional value for Plug.

我們知道這一點，因為我們擁有它並且我們一直在贏得訂單。因此，我清楚這一領域存在真正的機會。因此，我認為我們已經在所有細分市場中再次看到了這一點，因為我認為由於我們獨特的地位和我們的經驗，現在有比我們過去能夠利用的更多的機會。你看，這確實與我們在基礎設施、氫工廠、世界各地的資源方面所做的所有投資密切相關，我們坐在談判桌上，我們可以提供很高的可信度，這我認為我們處於獨特的地位，這為Plug 創造了額外的價值。

And then maybe for Paul, I know you are anticipating significant improvements on the margin side in the second half. The cadence of this, are we looking at sort of breakeven levels in 3Q and then moving to positive gross margin in the fourth quarter? Or how should we think about this, Paul?

然後也許對於保羅來說，我知道你預計下半場的利潤率會有顯著改善。這樣的節奏，我們是否會在第三季度實現盈虧平衡，然後在第四季度轉向正毛利率？或者我們應該如何思考這個問題，保羅？

Yes. I don't know if it will be quite breakeven in Q3, but it should be low teens kind of range. And I think you're going to -- you absolutely will see positive in Q4 and pretty meaningful accretion on the rate in Q4 as these cost downs continue to kick in. And equally more important, the sales volume that we're talking about, how substantial it is, that will be very accretive since it's the composition of equipment.

是的。我不知道第三季度是否會達到盈虧平衡，但應該是在十幾歲的範圍內。我認為，隨著成本持續下降，您絕對會在第四季度看到積極的結果，並且第四季度的利率會出現相當有意義的增長。同樣更重要的是，我們正在談論的銷量，它有多大，這將是非常增值的，因為它是設備的組成。

And longer term, as your infrastructure comes online, Paul, I mean, is there a possibility where gross cost of goods sold will actually begin declining for you guys? So just trying to see from a margin perspective, how we should think about it as the infrastructure around all of these products comes online?

從長遠來看，隨著你們的基礎設施上線，保羅，我的意思是，你們銷售的商品總成本實際上是否有可能開始下降？因此，從利潤的角度來看，當所有這些產品的基礎設施上線時，我們應該如何思考？

Yes. I mean I'll give you an analogy. When we built and designed the Rochester facility, we thought we could do kind of 2 gigawatts of various products between GenDrive product and stacks and electrolyzer products. The learnings we've gone through, we now think we could do anywhere from 4 to 5x that volume through that facility. I mean, you can only imagine that the overhead leverage that you can get out of that, by leveraging that up.

是的。我的意思是我會給你一個類比。當我們建造和設計羅切斯特工廠時，我們認為我們可以在 GenDrive 產品、電堆和電解槽產品之間生產 2 吉瓦的各種產品。根據我們所學到的經驗，我們現在認為通過該設施我們可以將產量提高 4 到 5 倍。我的意思是，你只能想像，通過槓桿作用，你可以從中獲得間接槓桿。

So -- and we think that's going to happen very fast. So we're -- to your point, the infrastructure we've built and scaling the range of things that we're doing, it's going to be substantially accretive as we continue to ramp up the business just in overhead level. That doesn't even account for supply chain cost reductions. I mean, Andy mentioned today, we spent 3 hours today just as we do all the time, working on operational enhancements, focus on things. And so you've got supply chain cost downs, you've got overhead leverage and then as Andy mentioned before, there's various products that we're looking at price management around and ASP management. So all those things combined is what's going to drive that margin profile in the coming quarters.

所以——我們認為這會很快發生。因此，就您而言，我們已經構建的基礎設施和擴展我們正在做的事情的範圍，隨著我們繼續在管理費用水平上擴大業務，它將大幅增值。這甚至沒有考慮到供應鏈成本的降低。我的意思是，安迪今天提到，我們今天花了 3 個小時，就像我們一直以來所做的那樣，致力於改進運營，專注於事情。因此，供應鏈成本下降，管理費用槓桿增加，然後正如安迪之前提到的，我們正在研究各種產品的價格管理和平均售價管理。因此，所有這些因素結合起來將推動未來幾個季度的利潤率。

Our next question comes from Greg Lewis with BTIG.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Greg Lewis。

Yes. My first question was around how we should be thinking about the cadence of electrolyzer orders as we kind of go forward from here? I mean I guess projects are going to continue to be big and lumpy. But is the -- are kind of the more smaller projects building a base that could kind of maybe smooth out the cadence of orders here over the next 12 months? Or I mean, what's kind of -- what are we seeing out there in the market?

是的。我的第一個問題是，當我們從這裡繼續前進時，我們應該如何考慮電解槽訂單的節奏？我的意思是，我猜項目將繼續變得龐大而混亂。但是，是否有一些規模較小的項目正在建設一個基地，從而可以在未來 12 個月內平滑這裡的訂單節奏？或者我的意思是，我們在市場上看到了什麼？

Greg, I'm going to turn that over to Sanjay.

格雷格，我要把它交給桑傑。

Thank you, Andy. So Greg, I think here is how you should think about it, right? So I think it's going to be a mix of 3 key things, right? One is our continued strategic stack sale, which actually carry good pricing and good margin for us. Second piece of that is our 5-megawatt containerized turnkey product, which really makes electrolyzer easy for our customer, right?

謝謝你，安迪。所以格雷格，我想你應該這樣想，對吧？所以我認為這將是三個關鍵因素的結合，對嗎？一是我們持續的戰略性堆棧銷售，這實際上為我們帶來了良好的定價和良好的利潤。第二部分是我們的 5 兆瓦集裝箱交鑰匙產品，它確實使我們的客戶可以輕鬆使用電解槽，對吧？

Now with the 5-megawatt product versus stack, there is sort of (inaudible) tests and things like that. Fabrication management, that's a piece we're continuing to refine and continue to get better at. Then you got large-scale projects, which goes under percent of the completion revenue accounting. And as you keep adding more and more of those, that gives you that stable base, right? But obviously, in 2023, you've seen Q1 versus Q2 be a lot more lumpy, but you will see that pick up in Q3 as you start to see more contribution from some of the -- I mean, some project business, some incremental electrolyzer business as well as some of this high megawatt project business. You will see that step change again in Q4.

現在，對於 5 兆瓦產品與堆棧，需要進行某種（聽不清）測試之類的事情。製造管理，這是我們不斷完善並不斷改進的一個部分。然後是大型項目，其占完成收入核算的百分比。當你不斷添加越來越多的內容時，這會給你帶來穩定的基礎，對嗎？但顯然，到2023 年，您會看到第一季度與第二季度相比更加不穩定，但您會看到第三季度有所回升，因為您開始看​​到一些項目業務、一些增量業務的更多貢獻電解槽業務以及一些高兆瓦項目業務。您將在第四季度再次看到這一步驟的變化。

So from the bookings cadence standpoint, if you're looking next 12 months out, you should see a lot of 5-megawatt containerized product booking, you should see a lot of stack sales opportunity booking, and you should really see substantial large-scale project bookings that we've talked about, right? On our last earnings call, we said we're actually at the very final phases of major project, announced one. Clearly, there's 2 more that we're going through legal documentation right now. So these are the type of the things you should see, which will make 2024 smoother. And as more and more of this project goes into the backlog and the bookings, then you actually will have that stable base with 5-megawatt and the stack build kind of adding on top of that. That's how you should think about the stack of how that revenue should unfold for that business.

因此，從預訂節奏的角度來看，如果您展望未來12 個月，您應該會看到大量5 兆瓦集裝箱產品的預訂，您應該看到大量堆棧銷售機會的預訂，並且您確實應該看到大量的大規模訂單。我們已經討論過的項目預訂，對嗎？在我們上次的財報電話會議上，我們宣布，我們實際上正處於重大項目的最後階段。顯然，我們現在正在處理另外兩份法律文件。所以這些都是你應該看到的事情，它們會讓 2024 年變得更加順利。隨著越來越多的項目進入積壓和預訂，那麼您實際上將擁有 5 兆瓦的穩定基礎，並在此基礎上添加堆棧構建。這就是您應該如何考慮該業務的收入應如何展開的堆棧。

Our next question comes from Kashy Harrison with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Kashy Harrison 和 Piper Sandler。

So I wanted to ask about the timing and then value of any and all financing transactions that we're discussing here. Specifically, how much capital do you think you're going to raise either in the second half of 2023 or 2024 from -- pick your source; DOE, corporate bonds, ITC monetization infrastructure funds. Like what is the absolute amount that we're looking for here? Is it $0.5 billion, $1 billion, $2 billion? Just trying to get a sense of that.

所以我想問一下我們在這裡討論的所有融資交易的時間安排和價值。具體來說，您認為您將在 2023 年下半年或 2024 年籌集多少資金——選擇您的來源； DOE、公司債券、ITC 貨幣化基礎設施基金。就像我們在這裡尋找的絕對數量是多少？是5億美元、10億美元還是20億美元？只是想了解一下。

I'm going to let Paul take that one.

我會讓保羅來拿那個。

Yes. I guess what I would tell you is when we look at debt capital and I think about it in kind of like the next 18-month time frame and across the various sources that you made reference to, I'm targeting $1 billion to $1.5 billion. That's where I'm targeting. So in that time frame and exactly the timing of when it rolls in and how that to be determined. But we're pretty confident. I mean, we could go get that today. I mean it's not that we don't have access to debt capital.

是的。我想我要告訴你的是，當我們考慮債務資本時，我會以未來 18 個月的時間框架來思考，並且通過你提到的各種來源，我的目標是 10 億至 15 億美元。這就是我的目標。因此，在那個時間範圍內，確切地說，它何時開始，以及如何確定。但我們非常有信心。我的意思是，我們今天就可以去拿那個。我的意思是，這並不是說我們無法獲得債務資本。

We just want to -- we're being very opportunistic in thinking about the best terms, best cost, best -- all the different dynamics. There's debt available. It's just -- I've had term sheets and lots of players. It's just we're trying to be very thoughtful about what we do and when we do it. So -- but in that time frame, that's roughly kind of what I'm thinking about in terms of magnitude.

我們只是想——我們在考慮最好的條件、最好的成本、最好的——所有不同的動態時非常機會主義。有債務可以藉。只是——我已經有了投資意向書和很多球員。只是我們試圖對我們所做的事情以及何時做進行深思熟慮。所以——但在那個時間範圍內，這大致就是我所考慮的規模。

That's helpful, Paul. Thanks for that. And then maybe just a quick follow-up question for Sanjay on Georgia. As you indicated, it's taken a little bit longer to hit the targeted capacity. Can you walk us through exactly what the gap has been more recently between the Analyst Day back in June and what's actually happened. And then when Georgia is online, will that -- is the output for that facility earmarked for materials handling? Or is it earmarked for stationary power?

這很有幫助，保羅。感謝那。然後也許只是向桑傑提出一個關於喬治亞州的快速後續問題。正如您所指出的，達到目標容量需要更長的時間。您能否向我們詳細介紹一下六月分析師日與實際發生的情況之間的差距。然後，當喬治亞州上線時，該設施的輸出是否會指定用於物料搬運？還是專門用於固定電源？

Let me take the second part of the question first, right? It's obviously earmarked for our internal use and for both of those applications, right? So that's the first piece. Now in terms of the time line here as to -- again, I think from last we met versus where we are right now in the month of August here, we are fully planning to produce liquid here this quarter and certainly this month and hosting the Analyst Day on the 23rd, right?

讓我先回答問題的第二部分，對嗎？它顯然是專門供我們內部使用和這兩個應用程序的，對吧？這就是第一部分。現在就時間線而言——再次，我認為從我們上次見面以來，與我們現在在八月份的情況相比，我們完全計劃在本季度，當然是本月在這裡生產液體，並舉辦23號分析師日，對嗎？

So we've actually -- as we continue to make sure that what is the most optimum way to run the plant, there are learnings that we're having, right? Now we have a choice to make. Do you keep running or do you actually implement some of those learnings? So there are things that we found out that we could do better from a rectifier energization perspective. There are learnings that we have from the stack perspective that we're actually going to make the operation of the plant better, right? So as we look to implement some of those changes, learnings from our gas plant, that certainly has had some additional time impact here, right?

所以，當我們繼續確保什麼是運行工廠的最佳方式時，我們實際上已經學到了一些東西，對嗎？現在我們需要做出選擇。你會繼續跑步還是實際應用其中的一些知識？因此，我們發現從整流器通電的角度來看，我們可以做得更好。我們從堆棧的角度了解到，我們實際上將使工廠的運營變得更好，對吧？因此，當我們希望實施其中一些變革時，從我們的天然氣工廠學到的經驗，這肯定會產生一些額外的時間影響，對吧？

And again, one of the things we want to make sure, right? So for us, getting George up and running and getting production in Georgia, it also has to be done the right way and really leverage that learning as we start to think about building our plant in Texas, as we're building our plant in New York as well, right? So that's essentially what I would say. And also, another thing you need to kind of keep in mind, right, is we've been pushing just so you guys know, in order to be able to get this plant built in 12 months versus what the industry average of 48 months is, we've actually been pushing folks, but it's the month of July and August.

再說一次，我們想要確定的事情之一，對吧？因此，對於我們來說，讓喬治啟動並運行並在佐治亞州進行生產，也必須以正確的方式完成，並在我們開始考慮在德克薩斯州建設我們的工廠時真正利用所學到的知識，就像我們在新州建設我們的工廠一樣約克也一樣吧？這基本上就是我要說的。另外，您需要記住的另一件事是，我們一直在努力讓大家知道，以便能夠在 12 個月內建成這座工廠，而行業平均水平為 48 個月，我們實際上一直在推動人們，但現在是七月和八月。

And on some level, the productivity does go down because it's 100 degrees outside and people have to actually take break and really be able to cool down and then go back on site. And just to give you a sense, the team was on site at 4:30 a.m. today, right, just to make sure that things were happening. So that's another factor. There's nothing anyone can really do about that, reduce productivity in the month of June, July and August in Georgia, and that certainly has played a bit of an impact here as well. Would you add anything to that?

在某種程度上，生產力確實會下降，因為外面的溫度高達 100 度，人們必須真正休息一下，真正能夠冷靜下來，然後再回到現場。為了讓您有一個感覺，團隊今天凌晨 4:30 就到達了現場，對吧，只是為了確保事情正在發生。這是另一個因素。對此，任何人都無能為力，降低佐治亞州六月、七月和八月的生產力，這當然也對這裡產生了一些影響。你能補充點什麼嗎？

I would just wear shorts to the Investor Day if that have been...

如果是這樣的話，我會在投資者日穿短褲。

If I could sneak one more in. Andy, in the prepared remarks, you talked (inaudible) of 13%. I was wondering if you or Paul could go into some details on what these are exactly? And then how should we think about those items over the course of the year?

如果我能再偷偷進來一次的話。安迪，在準備好的發言中，您談到了（聽不清）13%。我想知道你或保羅是否可以詳細說明這些到底是什麼？那麼我們在這一年中應該如何思考這些項目呢？

Great. Kashy, I'll hand it over to Paul.

偉大的。卡西，我會把它交給保羅。

Yes. So I mean, I guess what I would say is, I'll just give you a microcosm example. When you're designing something that's new that's never been done before, then you're trying to manufacture and scale it in mass quantities. Obviously, you're going through an incredible learning code really fast. So sometimes we learn like certain materials in terms of how they perform and the product and when we turn -- we have -- fortunately, we've got a great, broad platform to be able to test the product between the customers we're selling them to as well as in the case of electrolyzers, our own green hydrogen plant.

是的。所以我的意思是，我想我想說的是，我只會給你一個微觀的例子。當您設計一些以前從未做過的新東西時，您就會嘗試大規模製造和擴展它。顯然，您正在快速地學習令人難以置信的代碼。因此，有時我們會像某些材料一樣學習它們的性能和產品，當我們轉向時——我們有——幸運的是，我們有一個偉大、廣泛的平台，能夠在我們的客戶之間測試產品。將它們出售給我們自己的綠色氫工廠（就電解槽而言）。

And so we're able to accelerate that learning curve. But when you run into the range of things that we're launching and the scale of pace and all those things, you kind of compound those things. So some of it is material sometimes in terms of how it works, sometimes it's the manufacturing processes in terms of how it works, your learnings there. It's those kind of learning curves that you go through. The good news is we feel like, in particular, many of these things, we've kind of gotten through those humps and curves. And they're not lessons that you learn again, right? So we're able to kind of course correct and go through those learnings quickly and redirect. So that just gives you a microcosm example of some of the kind of things that's included in those costs.

因此我們能夠加快學習曲線。但是，當你遇到我們正在推出的一系列事情以及節奏的規模以及所有這些事情時，你就會將這些事情複雜化。因此，有時就其工作原理而言，其中一些是實質性的，有時就其工作原理而言，是製造過程，以及您在那裡學到的東西。這就是您要經歷的學習曲線。好消息是，我們感覺，特別是在許多事情上，我們已經度過了那些坎坷和彎路。而且它們不是你需要再次學習的課程，對嗎？因此，我們當然能夠糾正并快速完成這些學習並重新調整方向。因此，這只是為您提供了這些成本中包含的某些內容的縮影示例。

Our next question comes from Sam Burwell with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Sam Burwell。

I'll make it quick. You guys obviously put out that letter on the 45 (inaudible) to the powers that be recently and laid out your case convincingly in my view at least, but it seems like the debate or like the conflicts, the intracorporate conflict, if you will, is on additionality with the [NextEras] of the world wanting it. You obviously don't for reasons that make a lot of sense. But with that as a backdrop, like what do you guys consider to be a win on additionality, like it being put to rest forever? Or is it still a win if additionality is a requirement that gets phased in over the next, like 5-plus years?

我會盡快處理的。你們顯然在45 日（聽不清）上向最近的權力機構發出了那封信，至少在我看來令人信服地闡述了你們的情況，但這看起來像是一場辯論或衝突，公司內部衝突，如果你願意的話，是世界上想要它的[NextEras]的額外性。顯然你不這樣做，原因很有意義。但以此為背景，你們認為什麼是額外性的勝利，就像它被永遠擱置一樣？或者，如果額外性是在未來（比如五年多）內逐步實施的要求，這仍然是一個勝利嗎？

So Sam why -- I'm going to take a step back and say, I stand with Senator Carter and Senator Manchin where Senator Carter wrote the bill, but additionality was not included. So I'm going to stand by that. I would just add the longer additionalities pushed out the better it should be. But it -- when people ask me that question, we've done a lot of work, and you may have seen some of the work. But essentially, it's bad for U.S. jobs, it's bad for climate and it's bad for national security.

那麼薩姆為什麼——我要退後一步說，我與卡特參議員和曼欽參議員站在一起，卡特參議員起草了該法案，但額外性並未包括在內。所以我會堅持這一點。我只想補充一下，額外推出的時間越長，效果就越好。但當人們問我這個問題時，我們已經做了很多工作，你可能已經看到了其中的一些工作。但從本質上講，這不利於美國的就業、氣候和國家安全。

And one item that people don't really talk a lot about, and I think you'll start seeing articles about this. This is really at heart. I know Senator Manchin took me aside and said, Andy, at heart, this is a national security decision for United States continue to be energy independent. And to put requirements on the hydrogen industry, which the government has not put on their own buildings as they drive to be net zero, just doesn't make sense. So the longer it's out, the better. But I see no reason for Plug to publicly take a compromised position.

人們很少談論這一點，我想你會開始看到關於這一點的文章。這確實是發自內心的。我知道曼欽參議員把我拉到一邊說，安迪，本質上，這是美國繼續保持能源獨立的國家安全決定。對氫能行業提出要求是沒有意義的，而政府並沒有對自己的建築提出要求，因為他們正在努力實現淨零排放。所以出來的時間越長越好。但我認為普拉格沒有理由公開採取妥協立場。

Our next question comes from Chris Dendrinos with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 RBC 資本市場的 Chris Dendrinos。

I guess maybe just to start here. So in the investor letter, I think you guys all kind of mentioned that you had pushed out some of the timing on some of these other facilities, maybe 6 months or so. Can you just provide, I guess, some additional commentary on that? Is it really just kind of level setting expectations and then giving yourself some more cushion? Or are there some maybe delays in construction that we should be thinking about?

我想也許只是從這裡開始。所以在投資者的信中，我想你們都提到你們已經推遲了其他一些設施的一些時間安排，也許是 6 個月左右。我想你能對此提供一些額外的評論嗎？這真的只是設定期望水平然後給自己更多的緩衝嗎？或者我們應該考慮一些可能的施工延誤？

I'm going to let Sanjay answer that one, Chris.

我要讓 Sanjay 來回答這個問題，克里斯。

Yes, sure, Chris. Look, I'm glad actually you asked that question and give us an opportunity to talk about exactly what's going on here, right? So in the case of Texas, we wanted to make sure that we were going to get a lump-sum EPC contract. That was very important because that allows you to go and get bankable deals done, make the project bankable. It really starts opening up project financing, and we got to do that with a partner like (inaudible), right?

是的，當然，克里斯。聽著，我很高興你問了這個問題，並給了我們一個機會來討論這裡到底發生了什麼，對吧？因此，就德克薩斯州而言，我們希望確保獲得一次性 EPC 合同。這非常重要，因為這可以讓你去完成可融資的交易，使項目可融資。它真正開始開放項目融資，我們必須與像（聽不清）這樣的合作夥伴一起這樣做，對嗎？

Now that contract negotiation and again, this is a first of a kind, hasn't been done in the green hydrogen industry. It took about 6 to 9 months instead of probably a typical 3 to 6 months, right? So we have not executed the contract. EPC is going to start to kick off. So instead of actually kicking off that EPC in the month of March, it is now in the month of July. So that's really what has happened here. So instead of that plant coming online in Q2 of 2024, now it's the second half of 2024. That's what happened here. And by the way, we felt like that extra 3 to 6 months is well worth it. It is the right thing to do from basically being able to get a contract like this so that it sets the template and the standard of how this project needs to be executed. Otherwise, working and doing all the things that we did in Georgia, all that learning, we would not have taken advantage of that.

現在，合同談判再次進行，這在綠色氫行業中尚屬首次。大約需要 6 到 9 個月，而不是通常的 3 到 6 個月，對嗎？所以我們還沒有執行合同。 EPC即將開始啟動。因此，EPC 實際上不是在 3 月份啟動，而是在 7 月份啟動。這就是這裡發生的事情。因此，該工廠不再是在 2024 年第二季度上線，而是在 2024 年下半年。這就是這裡發生的情況。順便說一句，我們覺得額外的 3 到 6 個月是非常值得的。從基本上能夠獲得這樣的合同來看，這是正確的做法，因此它設定了該項目需要如何執行的模板和標準。否則，我們在佐治亞州工作和做的所有事情以及所有的學習，我們就不會利用這一點。

In terms of New York, it all comes down to substation. We've been having fantastic collaboration with NYPA as well as National Grid. But as it stands right now, that substation is probably going to get energized only in Q3 of 2024. Until the substation is energized, we cannot bring the liquid plant online. We have procured all the long lead time items. This is our electrolyzer. This is our liquefier. So those issues aren't the bottlenecks. Permitting is not the bottleneck. There's nothing else like that, right, which is why we just wanted to make sure that we articulated why Texas is -- and second half '24 -- why New York is second half '24. And as it relates to Louisiana, we just wanted to make sure that we're being also thoughtful about what that right structure of the EPC contract needs to look like. We've been working hand-in-hand with our partner, Olin. And instead of that plant also being end of 2024, based on where we are today, realistically -- end of 2023, it is now going to be Q1 of 2024. That's really what has happened here.

就紐約而言，這一切都取決於變電站。我們與 NYPA 以及國家電網一直有著良好的合作。但就目前情況而言，該變電站可能要到 2024 年第三季度才能通電。在變電站通電之前，我們無法使液體工廠上線。我們已經採購了所有長交貨期的物品。這是我們的電解槽。這是我們的液化器。所以這些問題並不是瓶頸。許可並不是瓶頸。沒有什麼比這更好的了，對吧，這就是為什麼我們只是想確保我們清楚地闡明了為什麼德克薩斯州——以及24年下半年——為什麼紐約是24年下半年。由於它涉及路易斯安那州，我們只是想確保我們也考慮到 EPC 合同的正確結構需要是什麼樣子。我們一直與我們的合作夥伴 Olin 攜手合作。根據我們今天的情況，實際上是 2023 年底，而不是該工廠也在 2024 年底建成，現在將是 2024 年第一季度。這確實是這裡發生的事情。

And then I guess maybe just on my follow-up here, and I apologize because I think my phone or Kashy's might have cut out during his last question. But in the letter here, there's -- I think you mentioned $45 million of incremental investment costs kind of in the quarter for growth. Is that like investments that are going to have sort of pay dividends going forward? Or is that sort of things that you had to do in the quarter to true things up and, I guess, get infrastructure where it needed to be. I guess, how should we think about the benefits of that incremental spend?

然後我想也許只是我的後續行動，我很抱歉，因為我認為我的手機或卡什的手機可能在他最後一個問題期間斷電了。但在這封信中，我認為您提到了本季度增長的 4500 萬美元增量投資成本。這是否就像未來會產生股息的投資一樣？或者是你在本季度必須做的事情，以解決問題，並且我想，將基礎設施建設到需要的地方。我想，我們應該如何考慮增量支出的好處？

Yes. Well, I mean, the short answer to your question is absolutely yes. I mean, when we think about -- just to put some context, sales of our electrolyzers will be 4x the size in volume than we did in the first half. And as we grow into next year, the volume is growing dramatically.

是的。嗯，我的意思是，對你的問題的簡短回答是絕對肯定的。我的意思是，當我們考慮時——只是為了說明一些背景，我們電解槽的銷量將是上半年的 4 倍。隨著我們進入明年，數量正在急劇增長。

And this is a product that's very quickly generating a profitable product margin that is incredibly attractive. So -- and it's one of the many areas that we have opportunities for this ASP management. So -- because of our unique position in this space. So the short answer to your question is this absolutely has value in helping us propel these incredibly significant platforms that can be incredibly accretive to the company, and you're going to see the benefits of that. So hopefully, that helps provide the color you're looking for.

這種產品能夠非常迅速地產生極具吸引力的可盈利產品利潤。因此，這是我們有機會進行 ASP 管理的眾多領域之一。所以——因為我們在這個領域的獨特地位。因此，對你的問題的簡短回答是，這對於幫助我們推動這些極其重要的平台絕對有價值，這些平台可以為公司帶來難以置信的增值，你將會看到這樣做的好處。希望這有助於提供您正在尋找的顏色。

Our next question comes from Andrew Percoco with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的安德魯·佩科科。

I'll just squeeze one quick one in here. Most of my -- mine have been asked. But it seems like you're pushing pretty hard against additionality. And I'm just curious, what in a world where additionality is required? What does that mean for your business and margins in the near term? Maybe just to ask it slightly differently, what are you currently assuming in your margin guidance in 2024 and 2025 as it relates to the hydrogen tax credit?

我就在這裡快速擠一粒。我的大部分人都被問過。但看起來你正在大力反對額外性。我只是好奇，在一個需要額外性的世界裡該怎麼辦？這對您的近期業務和利潤意味著什麼？也許只是稍微不同地問一下，您目前在 2024 年和 2025 年的利潤指引中對氫稅收抵免的假設是什麼？

So Andrew, let me take a step back and remind folks, the plants that Sanjay has rattled off; Georgia, Texas, New York, Louisiana, all that work started and start moving forward before the IRA. I'll let Paul answer the second part of that question. But we have real demand for that hydrogen regardless of how the regulations are written. I take the reason.

所以安德魯，讓我退後一步提醒大家，桑傑已經喋喋不休的植物；佐治亞州、德克薩斯州、紐約州、路易斯安那州，所有這些工作都在愛爾蘭共和軍之前開始並開始推進。我會讓保羅回答這個問題的第二部分。但無論法規如何制定，我們對氫氣都有真正的需求。我接受這個原因。

I take such a strong opinions about the IRA. Plug along with people like Cummings, Air Liquide, we're actually deeply involved in helping architect what the language was. And I can tell you, it never came up. And so maybe that's why I might be -- feel quite strong about it because it really shouldn't even be a debate at the moment. But let me -- let Paul talk about the margin profiles and how he thinks about it.

我對愛爾蘭共和軍有如此強烈的看法。與卡明斯、液化空氣集團等人一起，我們實際上深入參與了幫助構建該語言的過程。我可以告訴你，它從未出現過。所以也許這就是為什麼我對此感覺非常強烈，因為現在根本不應該進行辯論。但讓我——讓保羅談談利潤概況以及他對此的看法。

I didn't hear the complete context of your question though?

我沒有聽到你問題的完整背景？

What was the margin impact, Paul, the -- if we don't get the production tax credit.

保羅，如果我們沒有獲得生產稅收抵免，那麼利潤率會受到什麼影響。

Well, $3 -- I mean, the way it's phrased is holistic, $3 a kilogram is meaningful. We're not going to knock it at all. We're going to get a substantial portion. And if we don't qualify, who will?

嗯，3 美元——我的意思是，它的措辭方式是整體性的，每公斤 3 美元是有意義的。我們根本不會去敲它。我們將得到很大一部分。如果我們沒有資格，誰能呢？

So I think we've got a unique position in terms of all of the relationships we have in Washington to help shape this in a meaningful way for all the things that Andy talked about. And so this year, he talked about Georgia coming on. We're expecting to start accruing that benefit right away. And so it's going to have impact this year. And as we move into next year and turn on to additional facilities, it will have even substantially more impact. And so when you talk about $3 a kilogram, the majority of that, if not all of it, in the short term and midterm, the majority of it, we get to recognize and appreciate. So that's incredibly impactful for the near term.

因此，我認為我們在華盛頓的所有關係方面擁有獨特的地位，可以以一種有意義的方式幫助塑造安迪談到的所有事情。所以今年，他談到了喬治亞州的到來。我們期望立即開始獲得這種好處。所以今年它將會產生影響。當我們進入明年並啟用更多設施時，它將產生更大的影響。因此，當你談論每公斤 3 美元時，在短期和中期，我們會認識到並欣賞其中的大部分（如果不是全部）。因此，這對短期影響非常大。

So I think it's fair to say, Paul, even without the IRA, our costs go down to 1/3 of what they are today.

所以我認為可以公平地說，保羅，即使沒有 IRA，我們的成本也會下降到今天的 1/3。

Yes. And as most of you guys know, we started our green hydrogen endeavor even before the IRA got passed because it is so incredibly, economically impactful and accretive to us to produce this at such a much substantially lower cost. So overall, we're on the right path and right footing, and this will be impactful, and this is going to be incrementally accretive and additive to the overall equation.

是的。正如你們大多數人所知，我們甚至在愛爾蘭共和軍通過之前就開始了我們的綠色氫努力，因為它對我們以如此低得多的成本生產這種氫具有令人難以置信的經濟影響和增值作用。因此，總的來說，我們走在正確的道路上，立足點正確，這將是有影響力的，這將逐漸增加和增加整個方程式。

Our next question comes from Abhi Sinha with Northland Capital.

我們的下一個問題來自 Northland Capital 的 Abhi Sinha。

Just one quick one. So overall, I keep getting this -- a lot of news here from like whether it's different projects in Australia, Europe and whatnot. So I mean, I feel like we have a lot of incremental additive value to the existing guidance here. But of course, there's no change in guidance, not only 2023, but even for longer term. And so I'm just wondering at least if you look at 2024 or 2025, what projects you could point to that if materialize, could really give the scale on the higher end of the guidance or exceed the guidance. I mean what should be hang on...

就快一點吧。總的來說，我不斷收到很多新聞，比如澳大利亞、歐洲等地的不同項目。所以我的意思是，我覺得我們對這裡的現有指南有很多增量附加價值。當然，指導方針沒有變化，不僅是 2023 年，而且是更長期的。所以我只是想知道，至少如果你看看 2024 年或 2025 年，你可以指出哪些項目如果實現，可以真正達到指導的較高端或超過指導。我的意思是應該堅持什麼...

No. Abhi, I've been doing this for 15 years, and I did pretty good on revenue over the years. And I think we're going to stick by the guidance we provided already and it's something really good happens, and we're certainly engaged around the world. And Sanjay talked about the sales funnel for electrolyzers, which are real. We're driving every day to make the number bigger. But what we've said in the past, for next year, and what we've said for 2025, I think we'll just stand behind that today.

不，Abhi，我從事這一行已經 15 年了，這些年來我的收入表現相當不錯。我認為我們將堅持我們已經提供的指導，這確實是一件好事，我們肯定會在世界各地參與其中。桑傑談到了電解槽的銷售漏斗，這是真實的。我們每天都在開車，讓這個數字變得更大。但我們過去所說的、明年的以及 2025 年所說的，我想我們今天都會堅持下去。

Our next question comes from Tom Curran with Seaport Research Partners.

我們的下一個問題來自 Seaport Research Partners 的 Tom Curran。

Just 2 quick ones. First, Andy, Paul, just what are some of the main factors that have obstructed the services divisions ability to get closer to achieving a breakeven gross margin by this point? And how has each of those challenges negatively surprised you, either, just in terms of its nature, the fact that you didn't see it coming or maybe it's severity? And then given that what really undergird your confidence from here that services will nevertheless be on track for your new profitability improvement time frame?

就2個快的。首先，安迪、保羅，目前阻礙服務部門實現盈虧平衡毛利率的主要因素有哪些？這些挑戰中的每一個都如何讓您感到負面驚訝，無論是就其性質而言，您沒有預見到它的到來，或者可能是其嚴重性？然後考慮到什麼真正增強了您的信心，即服務仍將在新的盈利能力改善時間框架內步入正軌？

Yes. So Tom, let me tell you why, when I look at the challenge and the challenge really comes down to -- I'm going to give you the technical challenge. And then I'm going to give you the -- our view of why we believe we have good solutions. The technical challenge is really associated with the customers and this is good or taking more power out of our units than they originally did.

是的。所以，湯姆，讓我告訴你為什麼，當我看到挑戰時，挑戰實際上歸結為——我將給你帶來技術挑戰。然後我將向你們介紹我們為什麼相信我們有好的解決方案。技術挑戰確實與客戶相關，這很好，或者比他們原來的設備消耗了更多的電量。

And that means we need to put more power into the box to be successful. Most of this is involved with material handling. The second item is fuel cells don't like to start and stop all the time. And we understand and have demonstrated that we know how to manage that, which should be another differential advantage long term for Plug. We have about 5 or 6 sites that we've -- now I'm going to talk about the old fleet and the new fleet. We've taken about 5 or 6 sites, which we have implemented all the knowledge we've accumulated how to add more power, how to manage all these start/stops. And we see that the data shows it works. And our biggest challenge has been how to implement these changes rapidly, it takes people. And that's actually been one of the challenges to get that right.

這意味著我們需要投入更多的力量才能取得成功。其中大部分涉及物料搬運。第二點是燃料電池不喜歡一直啟動和停止。我們了解並已經證明我們知道如何管理這一點，這應該是 Plug 的另一個長期差異化優勢。我們有大約 5 或 6 個站點——現在我要談談舊機隊和新機隊。我們已經採取了大約 5 或 6 個站點，我們已經在這些站點上應用了我們積累的所有知識，如何增加更多的功率，如何管理所有這些啟動/停止。我們看到數據表明它有效。我們最大的挑戰是如何快速實施這些變革，這需要人才。這實際上是實現這一目標的挑戰之一。

The second one is, with our metal stack and with what we've done, we can pack so much more power into a unit that we will never run into this issue again. So I feel very, very confident. And I -- this is not a commitment, but I said in a meeting yesterday during a review I see no reason long term the service business can't be more profitable than the (inaudible).

第二個是，通過我們的金屬堆棧和我們所做的事情，我們可以將更多的能量裝入一個單元中，這樣我們就再也不會遇到這個問題了。所以我感覺非常非常有信心。我——這不是一個承諾，但我在昨天的一次會議上進行審查時說，我認為從長遠來看，服務業務沒有理由不能比（聽不清）更有利可圖。

Great. And then my follow-up would then be sticking with gross margin, turning to the Equipment division. Where are gross margins currently for each of the major product lines? So by major, I mean, material handling, electrolyzers, on remobility, cryogenic storage transportation and stationary power. Just what are the run rate targets for each that -- as you hit them on a blended basis or what you expect to enable you to get to that target division average gross margin goal?

偉大的。然後我的後續行動將堅持毛利率，轉向設備部門。目前各主要產品線的毛利率是多少？我所說的專業是指材料處理、電解槽、移動性、低溫儲存運輸和固定電力。當您在混合的基礎上達到這些目標時，每個目標的運行率目標是什麼，或者您期望什麼能夠使您達到該目標部門的平均毛利率目標？

Yes. There's a lot packed in your question, given the range of things that we do. First and foremost, we have, historically, in my public financials, you can look back and see, we've hit 30% plus gross margins in material handling. So -- we -- and when you look at the breadth of what we're doing there, it's all about continuing to drive that leverage and that will continue to be accretive as we grow that.

是的。鑑於我們所做的事情範圍廣泛，您的問題包含很多內容。首先也是最重要的是，從歷史上看，在我的公共財務數據中，你可以回顧一下，我們在物料搬運方面的毛利率達到了 30% 以上。所以，當你看看我們在那裡所做的事情的廣度時，你會發現這一切都是為了繼續推動這種槓桿作用，並且隨著我們的發展，這種槓桿作用將繼續增加。

Electrolyzers is the early phase of what we're doing there. As I mentioned, we got 4x the sales in the second half. But it's already in the 20s, and we'll quickly grow up to that 30% plus. When you look at our long tenured -- our long-term margin goals of 30% going up to 35%, we expect all the equipment business to get there just to give you some context. And so they're all at different phases, especially some of the newer stuff like stationary as an example. We're selling our first systems as we speak. So those are very early in that process. The good news is, it's all about scale. When you look at how fast we're going to ramp these different businesses, it provides that opportunity to scale them from a volume standpoint, from a supply chain standpoint across those boards.

電解槽是我們在那裡所做的早期階段。正如我提到的，下半年我們的銷售額增長了 4 倍。但現在已經是 20 多歲了，我們很快就會增長到 30% 以上。當你看看我們的長期利潤目標時——我們的長期利潤率目標是 30% 到 35%，我們預計所有設備業務都能實現這一目標，只是為了給你一些背景信息。所以它們都處於不同的階段，特別是一些較新的東西，例如固定式的。就在我們說話的時候，我們正在銷售我們的第一個系統。所以這些還處於該過程的早期階段。好消息是，一切都與規模有關。當你看看我們將以多快的速度發展這些不同的業務時，你會發現，它提供了從數量的角度、從跨這些板塊的供應鏈的角度來擴展這些業務的機會。

So cryogenic, the trailer and the tank business. I mean those are existing businesses that are in the mid-20s to high -- upper 20s. So as we launch -- and as we're launching new products like mobile refuelers and hydrogen trailers, those are actually incredibly accretive in the market, and that will be north of 30 out of the gate. So I don't want to get too discretive because I'm sure there's customers listening to a lot of these calls, but I would just say we have a mix of products today that some more mature that are already in that range and many that are poised, if they're not there yet, we'll get there very quickly. So that -- hopefully, that gives you a little bit of color and context.

如此低溫，拖車和坦克業務。我的意思是這些是 20 多歲到 20 多歲的現有企業。因此，當我們推出移動加油機和氫氣拖車等新產品時，這些產品實際上在市場上的增長令人難以置信，而且一開始就將超過 30 個。因此，我不想過於謹慎，因為我確信有客戶在聽很多這樣的電話，但我只想說，我們今天有多種產品，其中一些更成熟，已經在該範圍內，還有許多已經準備好了，如果他們還沒有到達，我們會很快到達那裡。希望這能給你一點色彩和背景。

That was a very helpful overview. And I was just going to thank you for taking the (inaudible) approach to your call that the boss does to his shows, so...

這是一個非常有幫助的概述。我只是想感謝你採取了老闆對他的節目所做的（聽不清）通話方式，所以......

That's funny, Tom. On that note, let me tell the analysts that we're really looking forward to seeing you at -- in Georgia -- on August 23. It should be -- you'll be able to see -- and using the BOSS analogy, Tom, you'll be able to see a plant like nowhere else in North America. So it's well, well worth coming to. And on top of that, very shortly, you will be getting a letter about our Plug Power Symposium, which will be held at our Vista facility.

這很有趣，湯姆。關於這一點，讓我告訴分析師，我們真的很期待 8 月 23 日在佐治亞州見到你們。應該是——你們將能夠看到——並使用 BOSS 類比，湯姆，你將能夠看到北美其他地方獨一無二的植物。所以這很好，非常值得來。除此之外，很快您就會收到一封關於我們的 Plug Power 研討會的信函，該研討會將在我們的 Vista 工廠舉行。

Again, as I mentioned, our astonishing facility that we have about 10 minutes south of us here in Latham. So thank you, everyone, for staying on. And I look forward to seeing all the analysts down in Georgia. Bye now.

正如我再次提到的，我們令人驚嘆的設施位於萊瑟姆以南約 10 分鐘路程處。所以謝謝大家留下來。我期待著在佐治亞州見到所有分析師。再見了。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。