普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to Plug's Fourth Quarter and Year-End 2022 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to our host, Teal Hoyos, Senior Director of Marketing and Communications. Thank you. You may begin.

您好，歡迎來到 Plug 的 2022 年第四季度和年終收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，正在錄製此會議。我現在將會議轉交給我們的主持人，營銷和傳播高級總監 Teal Hoyos。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2022 Fourth Quarter and Year-end Earnings Call. This call will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operations or of our financial position or other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provision for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝。歡迎來到 2022 年第四季度和年終財報電話會議。此次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包含對我們未來經營業績或財務狀況或其他前瞻性信息的預測。我們打算將這些前瞻性陳述納入 1933 年證券法第 27A 條和 1934 年證券交易法第 21E 條所載前瞻性陳述的安全港條款中。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements, and such should not be read or understood as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are based upon the current expectations, estimates, forecasts and projections as well as the current beliefs and assumptions of management and are subject to significant risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, the risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factors in the annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2021, subsequent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q and other reports we file from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的預期非常重要。但是，提醒投資者不要過分依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被閱讀或理解為對未來業績或結果的保證。此類陳述基於當前的預期、估計、預測和預測以及管理層當前的信念和假設，並受到重大風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果或業績與所討論的結果或業績因各種原因而存在重大差異因素，包括但不限於截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日止財政年度的 10-K 表格年度報告、隨後的 10-Q 表格季度報告和我們的其他報告中第 1A 項風險因素下討論的風險和不確定性不時向證券交易委員會提交文件。

These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day in which the statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information. At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug's CEO, Andy Marsh.

這些前瞻性陳述僅在作出陳述之日起生效，我們不承諾或打算在本次電話會議後或由於新信息而更新任何前瞻性陳述。在這一點上，我想把電話轉給 Plug 的首席執行官安迪馬什。

Thank you, Teal, and all of those who have joined us on the call today. Our shareholder letter was made public 30 minutes ago, but as previously discussed in January, our performance did not meet our expectations. We attribute this primarily to 3 factors: obstacles well encountered while introducing new products, delays in constructing our hydrogen plant and macroeconomic conditions that affected the cost of natural gas, resulting in a significant increase in the cost of our hydrogen.

謝謝你，Teal，以及今天加入我們電話會議的所有人。我們的股東信是在 30 分鐘前公開的，但正如之前在 1 月份討論的那樣，我們的業績沒有達到我們的預期。我們將這主要歸因於 3 個因素：在推出新產品時遇到的障礙、我們氫工廠建設的延誤以及影響天然氣成本的宏觀經濟條件，導致我們的氫成本顯著增加。

Despite the difficulties we faced this past year, I firmly believe that our efforts in 2022 will serve as the foundation for Plug's success over the next 5 years. Allow me to take just a few minutes to explain how all the pieces fit together.

儘管過去一年我們面臨困難，但我堅信我們在 2022 年的努力將成為 Plug 在未來 5 年取得成功的基礎。請允許我花幾分鐘時間解釋一下所有部分是如何組合在一起的。

Plug is actively pursuing every aspect of the hydrogen economy, including expanding the hydrogen ecosystem and establishing top-tier manufacturing and supply chain capabilities. One of our major advantages is the distinguished list of customers, including Amazon, Walmart, New Fortress Energy and great partners like SK and Renault.

Plug 積極探索氫經濟的各個方面，包括擴大氫生態系統和建立頂級製造和供應鏈能力。我們的主要優勢之一是傑出的客戶名單，包括亞馬遜、沃爾瑪、New Fortress Energy 以及 SK 和雷諾等優秀合作夥伴。

Moreover, our growth plans are supported by a policy environment that promotes renewables, such as the USA IRA legislation and REPowerEU. We anticipate that our broad efforts across the hydrogen ecosystem will become apparent this year.

此外，我們的增長計劃得到了促進可再生能源的政策環境的支持，例如美國 IRA 立法和 REPowerEU。我們預計我們在氫生態系統中的廣泛努力將在今年顯現出來。

Our hydrogen generation facilities, for instance, will play a crucial role in this effort. Our first green hydrogen plant in Georgia is set to begin hydrogen production early this year. However, this is just the start of our plan to expand our production of 500 tons per day across the United States by 2025.

例如，我們的製氫設施將在這項工作中發揮關鍵作用。我們在佐治亞州的第一家綠色氫工廠將於今年年初開始生產氫氣。然而，這只是我們到 2025 年將我們在美國每天生產 500 噸的計劃的開始。

We're also building green plants in Europe, including projects in the Port of Antwerp-Bruges and a collaboration with our partner, ACCIONA in Spain. Our plants will utilize Plug electrolyzers and cryogenic equipment to produce and deliver liquid hydrogen via Plug trailers.

我們還在歐洲建設綠色工廠，包括在安特衛普-布魯日港的項目以及與我們在西班牙的合作夥伴 ACCIONA 的合作。我們的工廠將利用 Plug 電解槽和低溫設備通過 Plug 拖車生產和輸送液態氫。

As part of our aggressive strategy, we also will provide products such as our electrolyzer platforms, stationary products for EV charging and peaker plants. We're also developing on-road vehicles through our JV partner, Renault.

作為我們積極戰略的一部分，我們還將提供電解槽平台、電動汽車充電固定產品和調峰設備等產品。我們還通過我們的合資夥伴雷諾開發公路車輛。

All of these products will be marketed and sold by our JV partner, SK. We believe that our manufacturing and supply chain capabilities are crucial differentiators in our industry. The state-of-the-art facility we had in Rochester and New Albany are unrivaled in the sector.

所有這些產品都將由我們的合資夥伴 SK 營銷和銷售。我們相信我們的製造和供應鏈能力是我們行業的關鍵差異化因素。我們在羅切斯特和新奧爾巴尼擁有的最先進的設施在該領域是無與倫比的。

Additionally, we have formed valuable partnership with partners such as Johnson Matthey, which grants us access in valuable product development and manufacturing expertise as well as essential elements that are crucial to scaling the industry.

此外，我們與莊信万豐等合作夥伴建立了寶貴的合作夥伴關係，這使我們能夠獲得寶貴的產品開發和製造專業知識以及對擴大行業規模至關重要的基本要素。

At Plug, we place a high priority on the advantage of large-scale manufacturing, which we believe will accelerate our business growth and drive profitability. (inaudible) capacity to achieve all these tasks simultaneously, we have confidence that our 4,000 global employees and partnerships can make it possible.

在 Plug，我們高度重視大規模製造的優勢，我們相信這將加速我們的業務增長並提高盈利能力。 （聽不清）同時完成所有這些任務的能力，我們相信我們的 4,000 名全球員工和合作夥伴能夠使之成為可能。

Moreover, the favorable business environment for sustainable solutions will benefit all Plug's stakeholders. By the end of 2023, we aim to generate $1.4 billion in revenue, commission more than 200 tons of liquid green hydrogen plants and become the largest global player, exceed $400 million in electrolyzer sales, deploy 30 megawatts of stationary power products, which will serve as a substantial source of recurring revenue for Plug and finally, clearly demonstrate the profitability for all our investors.

此外，有利於可持續解決方案的商業環境將使 Plug 的所有利益相關者受益。到 2023 年底，我們的目標是創造 14 億美元的收入，投產超過 200 噸液態綠色氫工廠並成為全球最大的參與者，電解槽銷售額超過 4 億美元，部署 30 兆瓦的固定電源產品，這將服務於作為 Plug 經常性收入的重要來源，並最終清楚地證明我們所有投資者的盈利能力。

I do want to ensure complete transparency by acknowledging the potential challenges that may arise through our business activities throughout the year. Scaling new product platforms and building first-of-a-kind hydrogen plants involves (inaudible), especially for complex products like our electrolyzer in stationary products. Based on my experience, design issues that were not initially considered often arise within the first 6 months and supply chain and manufacturing challenges tend to emerge during the first year.

我確實想通過承認我們全年的業務活動可能出現的潛在挑戰來確保完全透明。擴展新產品平台和建設一流的氫工廠涉及（聽不清），特別是對於復雜的產品，如我們在固定產品中的電解槽。根據我的經驗，最初沒有考慮到的設計問題通常會在頭 6 個月內出現，而供應鍊和製造方面的挑戰往往會在第一年出現。

As someone who's been involved in introducing new platforms for many years, I can confidently say that it's unrealistic to expect flawless product launches. However, we believe that our plans are achievable and have built in some buffer in our projections for 2023.

作為多年來一直致力於引入新平台的人，我可以自信地說，期望完美的產品發布是不現實的。然而，我們相信我們的計劃是可以實現的，並且已經在我們對 2023 年的預測中建立了一些緩衝。

Finally, I believe at the end of 2023, no one will question Plug's ability to scale the hydrogen economy. By 2026, we expect to generate $5 billion revenue and $20 billion by 2030. We are committed to achieving our vision being the leader in the hydrogen economy, and we'll continue to build and dream accordingly. Paul, Sanjay and I are now open to take your questions.

最後，我相信到 2023 年底，沒有人會質疑 Plug 擴大氫經濟規模的能力。到 2026 年，我們預計將產生 50 億美元的收入，到 2030 年將產生 200 億美元的收入。我們致力於實現成為氫經濟領導者的願景，我們將繼續建設和夢想。 Paul、Sanjay 和我現在可以回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from James West with Evercore ISI.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 James West。

So Andy, I like what you're doing in Europe here. You're getting more aggressive. I know you guys started kind of with the U.S. build-out but now with Antwerp and especially with the JV partner in Iberia, it seems like that could be -- could accelerate into many more plants in that area of the world. Is that a fair assumption to make?

所以安迪，我喜歡你在歐洲所做的事情。你越來越有攻擊性了。我知道你們開始有點像美國的擴建，但現在有了安特衛普，尤其是與伊比利亞的合資夥伴，似乎可以加速進入世界該地區的更多工廠。這是一個公平的假設嗎？

That is a fair assumption to make, James. And our team has been particularly focused on the Nordic regions. And when we think about hydrogen generation in Europe, those are really the 2 areas that southern portion of Europe, such as Spain as well as the Nordic region where you have accessible hydropower and wind power, which we think makes a lot of sense.

詹姆斯，這是一個合理的假設。我們的團隊一直特別關注北歐地區。當我們考慮歐洲的氫氣發電時，這些實際上是歐洲南部的兩個地區，例如西班牙和北歐地區，在那裡您可以使用水力發電和風力發電，我們認為這很有意義。

Right. Okay. Got it. And then on the EV charging front, as this has been emerging. Could you characterize kind of where you're seeing that demand and maybe the level of demand that you're seeing?

正確的。好的。知道了。然後在電動汽車充電方面，因為這已經出現了。您能否描述一下您在哪裡看到這種需求以及您看到的需求水平？

So what we're seeing -- I think, James, you're well aware of the challenges that folks have in bringing transmission-wise to support fleets of electric vehicles. And as we -- as you -- as folks are aware, we have some large customers who are looking to deploy EV vehicles.

所以我們所看到的——我想，詹姆斯，你很清楚人們在將傳輸方式用於支持電動汽車車隊方面所面臨的挑戰。正如我們 - 正如您 - 人們都知道的那樣，我們有一些大客戶正在尋求部署 EV 車輛。

And on the EV side, the first deployments will be last mile delivery to charge EV vehicles because it's much easier to bring hydrogen facility 70 miles away to generate the fuel in using our stationary power products to power the vehicles. We also see -- and our investors will see announcements over the coming months about first-generation peaker plants, where we'll be deploying electrolyzers, say something, James, in the 8 to 10-megawatt scale at first to certify our stationary products. So that's a real area of focus at the moment. And the combination of those 2 activities support the 30 megawatts.

在 EV 方面，首次部署將是最後一英里交付，為 EV 車輛充電，因為使用我們的固定電源產品為車輛提供動力時，將氫氣設施帶到 70 英里外以產生燃料要容易得多。我們還看到——我們的投資者將在未來幾個月內看到有關第一代峰值發電廠的公告，我們將在那裡部署電解槽，James，首先以 8 到 10 兆瓦的規模來證明我們的固定產品.所以這是目前真正關注的領域。這兩項活動的結合支持 30 兆瓦。

Our next question comes from Manav Gupta with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的 Manav Gupta。

Andy, you recently announced long-term strategic partnership with Johnson Matthey. Help us understand what they bring to the table, why this partnership is important to you? Does it kind of ensure that future supply chain issues do not arise? Just help us walk through that, please?

Andy，您最近宣布與莊信万豐建立長期戰略合作夥伴關係。幫助我們了解他們帶來了什麼，為什麼這種夥伴關係對您很重要？它是否可以確保未來不會出現供應鏈問題？請幫我們解決這個問題好嗎？

Sure, Manav. Thank you for the question. When -- we really believe when we take a look, Johnson Matthey has great capabilities when it comes to being able to source precious metals, which is really critical in this industry, but also have been deeply involved in what we think are really interesting product development work in MEAs, and we use their technology today. We believe that one combining Plug strength in applications as well as MEA developments with Johnson Matthey gives us a much stronger product development platform for both our electrolyzers and fuel cell business.

當然，馬納夫。感謝你的提問。當——我們真的相信，當我們看一看時，莊信万豐在採購貴金屬方面具有強大的能力，這在這個行業中非常關鍵，但也深入參與了我們認為真正有趣的產品MEA 的開發工作，我們今天使用他們的技術。我們相信，將 Plug 在應用中的優勢以及 MEA 開發與莊信万豐相結合，可為我們的電解槽和燃料電池業務提供更強大的產品開發平台。

We also believe that again, thinking of scale manufacturing, where we're looking up to putting a 10 gigawatt plant here in the U.S. with Johnson Matthey much like and think about something that looks like the Tesla plan in Nevada, we think that's an added strength. And obviously, when you start thinking about recycling precious metals, no one is better in the world at that than Johnson Matthey. I think this provides Plug a unique technical advantage, manufacturing advantage as well as addressing some of the larger concerns in the industry about the availability of precious metals.

我們也再次相信，考慮到規模製造，我們希望在美國與莊信万豐一起建設一個 10 吉瓦的工廠，並考慮一些類似於內華達州特斯拉計劃的事情，我們認為這是一個額外的力量。顯然，當您開始考慮回收貴金屬時，世界上沒有人比莊信万豐更擅長這方面了。我認為這為 Plug 提供了獨特的技術優勢、製造優勢，並解決了業內對貴金屬可用性的一些較大擔憂。

My very quick follow-up is you sometimes do credit for your materials handling business and we're looking at -- just basically in to add about 80 new material handling sites in 2023. So if you could quickly talk about that.

我很快的跟進是你有時會為你的材料處理業務做功勞，我們正在考慮 - 基本上只是在 2023 年增加大約 80 個新的材料處理站點。所以如果你能快速談談這個。

Sure. And you are right, it gets lost in the shuffle. And if you -- what I really like about the mix is it's really -- a lot of it is -- some of our traditional customers like Walmart, we have a fairly aggressive plan this year with them but also during the past year, we announced three new pedestal customers. And those pedestal customers, folks like (inaudible) are looking to deploy -- start deploying at scale and that's a benefit not only here in North America, but building out our European capabilities. So yes, it does get lost in the mix, and it will represent about half of it when you combine it with the hydrogen service that they'll use. It's almost half of our business in the coming year. And a big jump from last year.

當然。你是對的，它在洗牌中迷路了。如果你 - 我真正喜歡這種組合的是它真的 - 很多 - 我們的一些傳統客戶，如沃爾瑪，今年我們與他們有一個相當積極的計劃，但在過去的一年裡，我們宣布了三個新的基座客戶。那些基礎客戶，像（聽不清）這樣的人正在尋求部署——開始大規模部署，這不僅對北美有利，而且對我們歐洲的能力建設也有好處。所以是的，它確實在混合中迷失了，當你將它與他們將使用的氫氣服務結合起來時，它將佔其中的一半左右。這幾乎是我們來年業務的一半。與去年相比有了很大的飛躍。

Our next question comes from Alex Kania with Wolfe Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Alex Kania。

I noticed on the discussion on the sales funnel for the electrolyzers at a pretty substantial proportion is related to, I guess, green hydrogen/green ammonia. We've certainly seen a lot of blue hydrogen announcements in the last, even few weeks. I'm just kind of wondering, it sounds like there's a lot of demand for green ammonia, but just what's your sense in terms of the timing of when we see larger types of announcements?

我注意到關於電解槽銷售漏斗的討論中有相當大的一部分與綠色氫/綠色氨有關。在過去甚至幾週內，我們當然看到了很多藍色氫的公告。我只是有點想知道，聽起來對綠色氨的需求很大，但就我們看到更大類型的公告的時間而言，你有什麼感覺？

I will let Sanjay take that because I know Sanjay has been deeply engaged in that activity over the past month. So Sanjay, maybe you can give out some insight.

我會讓 Sanjay 接受這個，因為我知道 Sanjay 在過去一個月裡一直深入參與這項活動。所以 Sanjay，也許你可以提供一些見解。

Sure. Happy to do that. And again, Alex, as you know, right, we've talked about it before. When you think about our funnel, and again, I just want to be clear, our funnel, it's well in excess of $30 billion. And when you break down what's in that funnel, almost 50% of that is really related to e-fuels, including green ammonia-type opportunities. Now we have some real meaningful activities going on here in North America. And in terms of the timing of when we might be able to talk about that, i.e., I believe that we'll be able to share something incremental with you during 2023. And these are ranges from multiple sizes of projects, some being fully substantial opportunity in sort of (inaudible) if you really think about it. So give us some time, there's a lot going on behind the scene and really looking forward to actually talking a lot more about it even in North America, as you actually really look at when 2023 sort of like in the second half of the year.

當然。很高興這樣做。再一次，亞歷克斯，正如你所知，對，我們之前已經討論過。當你想到我們的漏斗時，我只想說清楚，我們的漏斗遠遠超過 300 億美元。當你分解漏斗中的內容時，其中近 50% 確實與電子燃料有關，包括綠色氨類機會。現在我們在北美這裡開展了一些真正有意義的活動。至於我們什麼時候可以討論這個問題，也就是說，我相信我們將能夠在 2023 年與您分享一些增量的東西。這些項目的範圍多種多樣，有些項目非常重要如果您真的考慮的話，有點機會（聽不清）。所以給我們一些時間，幕後發生了很多事情，我真的很期待即使在北美也能更多地談論它，因為你實際上看到 2023 年有點像下半年。

Great. And then just a follow-up on your discussion on SK and expectations of the stationary power, which I think was like 400 megawatts by 2025. How do you characterize that? Is that fully kind of contracted? Or is it kind of more just some understanding? Just kind of curious about how you see those deliveries.

偉大的。然後只是跟進您對 SK 的討論以及對固定電源的期望，我認為到 2025 年固定電源將達到 400 兆瓦。您如何描述它？那是完全契約的嗎？還是只是一些理解？只是有點好奇你如何看待這些交付。

That's a good question. So 2020 out -- by the way, we -- I'm going to take another step back -- we have a good deal of business activity, which will occur with SK this year, including supporting electrolyzers in South Korea, bus fleets as fueling stations where we have quite a bit of business in fueling stations that will be seen as revenue this year as that business begins to grow. This year is really a testing and verification of our stationary products. And once that is complete, we will lock in the 200 megawatts and 400 megawatts worth of products.

這是個好問題。所以 2020 年 - 順便說一下，我們 - 我要再退一步 - 我們有很多業務活動，今年將與 SK 一起進行，包括支持韓國的電解槽、公交車隊加油站我們在加油站有相當多的業務，隨著該業務開始增長，今年將被視為收入。今年真是我們文具類產品的考驗和驗證。一旦完成，我們將鎖定 200 兆瓦和 400 兆瓦的產品。

Simultaneously, which should give investors a little more confidence, we are also working on the details of the MEA manufacturing plant in South Korea to support that 200, 400 megawatts per year size deployments between '25 and 2040. So those efforts -- there is a lot of development and manufacturing coordination going on between Plug and SK. I hope that's helpful.

同時，這應該會給投資者更多信心，我們也在研究韓國 MEA 製造廠的細節，以支持 25 到 2040 年之間每年 200、400 兆瓦的規模部署。所以這些努力——有Plug 和 SK 之間正在進行大量的開發和製造協調。我希望這會有所幫助。

The next question comes from P.J. Juvekar with Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗的 P.J. Juvekar。

My question is that given the delays that you had in 2022 and building these hydrogen plants, you haven't changed the 200 tons per day number for 2023. Wondering what gives you confidence to keep that guidance the same? Maybe Sanjay, can you talk about that?

我的問題是，考慮到你們在 2022 年建造這些氫工廠的延誤，你們沒有改變 2023 年每天 200 噸的數字。想知道是什麼讓你們有信心保持這一指導不變？也許桑傑，你能談談嗎？

Sure. Happy to. So Andy, I can jump in here. So happy to -- P.J., so a couple of things, right? And I think you guys must have seen that there is some update in the slide that we provided here in this shareholder letter (inaudible) the one that we had before. As you can see, there's a check mark in Georgia from a commissioning standpoint, right? So we -- and you can see that in the slide, we are talking about getting Georgia starting to produce by the end of this quarter and in early Q2 from a full production standpoint.

當然。高興。所以安迪，我可以跳進去。很高興——P.J.，有幾件事，對吧？我想你們一定已經看到我們在這封股東信（聽不清）中提供的幻燈片中有一些更新，我們之前有過。如您所見，從調試的角度來看，佐治亞州有一個複選標記，對嗎？所以我們 - 你可以在幻燈片中看到，我們正在談論讓格魯吉亞在本季度末和第二季度初從全面生產的角度開始生產。

There's been a tremendous learning period that we have had with the plant in Georgia. Let's not forget, it's a first-of-the-kind green hydrogen liquid plant in the world that has not been built in the past, right? So we've learned a lot. With that learning, what that has allowed us to do is when you then take that learning and know-how into our plants in Texas, into our plants in New York, we actually are able to leverage a lot of that, right? So as a matter of fact, in Texas, it's going to be obviously our electrolyzer, our liquefier but we're now able to do turnkey EPC contract, right, for some of that execution capability even more on that turnkey EPC.

我們在佐治亞州的工廠經歷了一段巨大的學習時期。別忘了，它是世界上第一個綠色液態氫工廠，以前沒有建過吧？所以我們學到了很多。通過這種學習，我們可以做的是，當您將這種學習和專業知識帶入我們在德克薩斯州的工廠，帶入我們在紐約的工廠時，我們實際上能夠利用其中的很多，對嗎？所以事實上，在得克薩斯州，這顯然是我們的電解槽，我們的液化器，但我們現在能夠做交鑰匙 EPC 合同，對，對於交鑰匙 EPC 上的一些執行能力甚至更多。

When it comes to New York, we've actually spent a lot of time looking at the fatal flaw design analysis, substation work is moving ahead. So there's a lot of learnings that we've been able to leverage from Georgia. And then when you look at the list of all the projects, Georgia this year, Louisiana this year, Tennessee expansion, ongoing work, then we actually have bought about 45 tons of liquefier, one of the key long lead time items, which we can also leverage for some feed gas opportunity in terms of 2023 opportunity.

說到紐約，我們其實已經花了很多時間在看致命缺陷設計分析，變電站工作正在向前推進。因此，我們能夠從佐治亞州學到很多東西。然後當你查看所有項目的清單時，今年佐治亞州，今年路易斯安那州，田納西州擴張，正在進行的工作，然後我們實際上已經購買了大約 45 噸液化器，這是關鍵的長交貨期項目之一，我們可以還可以利用 2023 年機會獲得一些原料氣機會。

Now finally, Texas is a 45-ton plant. New York is a 75-ton plant. And one point, P.J., maybe we could do a slightly better job than maybe what we've done in the past is there is about a 6-month lag, right? When we talk about commissioning to full production, no different than how solar and wind industry actually talk about commissioning to commercial operation date. So when you take all that into consideration and look at all the list of those projects, 200-ton commission, we feel very good about by the end of the year. And by the middle of 2024, that 200-plus tons will be producing at full capacity, and that's how we're looking at it.

現在終於，得克薩斯州是一個 45 噸的工廠。紐約是一個 75 噸的工廠。還有一點，P.J.，也許我們可以做得比我們過去所做的工作稍微好一點，那就是大約有 6 個月的滯後，對吧？當我們談論調試到全面生產時，與太陽能和風能行業實際上談論調試到商業運營日期的方式沒有什麼不同。因此，當你考慮到所有這些並查看這些項目的所有清單時，200 噸的佣金，到年底我們感覺非常好。到 2024 年年中，這 200 多噸將滿負荷生產，這就是我們的看法。

And Andy, I do want to talk to you and the question is, in talking to other hydrogen producers and industrial gas companies, everyone is struggling to figure out the IRA benefit that you get, how much of that -- the producers will keep and how much of that will they pass on to their customers? And I think I get different answers from different people. Just wondering what are your sort of big picture views on that topic?

安迪，我確實想和你談談，問題是，在與其他氫氣生產商和工業氣體公司交談時，每個人都在努力弄清楚你獲得的 IRA 收益，其中有多少 - 生產商將保留和他們會將其中的多少轉嫁給客戶？我想我從不同的人那裡得到了不同的答案。只是想知道您對該主題的總體看法是什麼？

So P.J., I think it will be -- I think -- let me take a step back. I think what it is in 2025 will be different in 2030, 2032, that initially the producer will be able to capture a higher percentage of the production tax credit. Let's circle in the 70% range. I think as time goes on and there's more competition that the ability for the producer to capture that level, I think, declined. If I was in -- crystal balls are tough, but I would think in 2028, 2029, you're probably talking 30%. But during that whole time, your -- especially for plants you have already online, you're already had the payback for those plants and other items. So that's how I think it will play out, P.J. and I have real live data at least initially that probably is a pretty fair estimate of the initial number I'm putting out there.

所以 P.J.，我認為這將是——我認為——讓我退後一步。我認為 2025 年的情況在 2030 年、2032 年會有所不同，最初生產商將能夠獲得更高比例的生產稅收抵免。讓我們在 70% 的範圍內打圈。我認為隨著時間的推移，競爭越來越激烈，我認為製作人達到那個水平的能力會下降。如果我在——水晶球很難，但我認為在 2028 年、2029 年，你可能說的是 30%。但在那段時間裡，你的 - 特別是對於你已經在線的植物，你已經得到了這些植物和其他物品的回報。所以這就是我認為它會如何發揮作用，P.J. 和我至少在最初有真實的實時數據，這可能是對我在那裡提供的初始數字的相當公平的估計。

That's fair. So you think there is an advantage to being the first mover in the space?

這還算公平。所以你認為成為這個領域的先行者有優勢嗎？

I feel very strongly about that based on contracts we've already signed.

基於我們已經簽署的合同，我對此有強烈的感覺。

Our next question comes from Amit Dayal with H.C. Wainwright.

我們的下一個問題來自 H.C. 的 Amit Dayal。溫賴特。

Just with respect to the questions from the recent caller, the 200 tons that have been commissioned by the end of the year and then getting commercialized fully by mid-2024. In that context, how do we bridge this $1.4 billion revenue target for 2023? If you could just break out the segments between material handling, fuel electrolyzers, I think that would be helpful to listen.

就最近來電者的問題而言，200 噸已在年底投產，然後在 2024 年年中全面商業化。在這種情況下，我們如何實現 2023 年 14 億美元的收入目標？如果你能把材料處理、燃料電解槽之間的部分分開，我認為那會很有幫助。

Sure. Paul, do you want to take that question?

當然。保羅，你想回答這個問題嗎？

Yes. I think, first of all, material handling will be a meaningful part of our sales, somewhere between 55%. Electrolyzers is going to be a pretty meaningful part as we're talking about that. That's probably roughly 30-plus percent. Stationary is going to be a meaningful part of our program this year. I think publicly, we've talked with a target of up to $100 million of sales in that product line. And then fuel probably makes up most of the rest. And I put in fuel, that fuel category, other cryogenic equipment and liquefiers and tank and tankers and things like that. The real -- where we're going to see as we turn on those plants this year and ramping on into next year, that fuel will become a more -- increasingly more meaningful part of the mix as we turn those facilities on and moving into '24 but for this year, that's kind of how that roughly breaks down.

是的。我認為，首先，物料搬運將成為我們銷售額的重要組成部分，大約在 55% 之間。電解器將是一個非常有意義的部分，因為我們正在談論它。這可能大約是 30% 以上。文具將成為我們今年計劃中有意義的一部分。我想在公開場合，我們已經討論過該產品線銷售額高達 1 億美元的目標。然後燃料可能佔了其餘的大部分。然後我放入燃料，燃料類別，其他低溫設備和液化器以及油箱和油輪等等。真正的 - 我們將看到，當我們今年開啟這些工廠並進入明年時，燃料將成為更多 - 隨著我們開啟這些設施並進入其中，燃料將成為組合中越來越有意義的部分'24 但今年，這就是大致分解的方式。

Paul, appreciate it. And last one for me, guys. With respect to the green hydrogen network coming up now, are the offtake agreements for this already in place? Or are you working on those? And then what type of contracts that you might be setting up, monthly contracts? Any color on how this will play out.

保羅，感激不盡。最後一個給我，伙計們。關於現在即將推出的綠色氫網絡，是否已經制定了承購協議？或者你正在研究這些？然後你可能會建立什麼類型的合同，月度合同？關於這將如何進行的任何顏色。

Sanjay, do you want to take that one for Amit.

Sanjay，你想把那個拿給 Amit 嗎？

Sure. Happy to do that. So -- and I mean, as we briefly mentioned in the shareholder letter, right, we have almost 200 tons of offtake agreement in place right now. Between our pedestal customer like Amazon, Walmart and others. So -- and again, these are all done from a portfolio perspective, if you would, right? So there's some situation where maybe an offtake agreement is from one particular plant and a meaningful amount of that. And in other situations, it's actually the network where they are actually allocated a certain amount of capacity from plant A, B, C and D, if you will, right?

當然。很高興這樣做。所以——我的意思是，正如我們在股東信中簡要提到的那樣，我們現在有近 200 噸的承購協議。在亞馬遜、沃爾瑪等我們的主要客戶之間。所以——再一次，如果你願意的話，這些都是從投資組合的角度來完成的，對吧？所以在某些情況下，承購協議可能來自一個特定的工廠，而且其中的數量很大。在其他情況下，實際上是網絡，他們實際上從工廠 A、B、C 和 D 中分配了一定數量的容量，如果你願意的話，對嗎？

Now from a structuring standpoint, there are situations where we have as long as a 7-year contract from a take-or-pay standpoint. There are situations where we have a 5-year contract, right? And we also have a lot of negotiation and the discussion going on at this point in time where we're looking at some of the swap agreements, right? We're also looking at some of the players in the industry that might have other types of specialty gas but not hydrogen in a meaningful amount today. We're having discussions with folks like that. But from a contracting standpoint, that's what you can see right now.

現在從結構的角度來看，在某些情況下，從照付不議的角度來看，我們有一份長達 7 年的合同。在某些情況下，我們有一份 5 年的合同，對嗎？在我們正在研究一些互換協議的時間點上，我們也進行了很多談判和討論，對嗎？我們也在關注行業中的一些參與者，他們可能擁有其他類型的特種氣體，但今天沒有大量的氫氣。我們正在與這樣的人進行討論。但是從合同的角度來看，這就是您現在可以看到的。

Our next question comes from Eric Stine with Craig-Hallum.

我們的下一個問題來自 Eric Stine 和 Craig-Hallum。

So maybe just on gross margin. Just on gross margin, obviously, a pretty critical objective. Can you maybe just talk about some of the signposts that we should look for in 2023 to kind of judge the progress towards some of your long-term goals? And then in '23, can you just talk about the progression? I mean, obviously, I would think the low natural gas prices here early in the year, what maybe impact the linearity throughout the year.

所以也許只是毛利率。顯然，就毛利率而言，這是一個非常關鍵的目標。您能否談談我們應該在 2023 年尋找的一些路標，以判斷您實現某些長期目標的進展情況？然後在 23 年，你能談談進展嗎？我的意思是，很明顯，我認為今年早些時候這裡的天然氣價格低，這可能會影響全年的線性度。

So Paul, and Sanjay, do you want to take that one? Paul, you can go first.

Paul 和 Sanjay，你們要不要那個？保羅，你可以先走了。

Sure. A couple of things, Eric. There are some near-term events that are, for us, real important milestones. Sanjay talked about turning on the Georgia plant and starting to scale that up. That's a real important milestone to show, and it will start being accretive very quickly. And as we move forward in the course of the year, additional facilities will be incrementally accretive as well. So that's an important one. Scaling up the electrolyzer production, as we talked about, we've already seen a substantial improvement in output.

當然。有幾件事，埃里克。有一些近期事件對我們來說是真正重要的里程碑。 Sanjay 談到啟動佐治亞州的工廠並開始擴大規模。這是一個真正重要的里程碑，它將很快開始增長。隨著我們在這一年中向前邁進，額外的設施也將逐漸增加。所以這是一個重要的。正如我們所說，擴大電解槽生產，我們已經看到產量有了實質性的提高。

And as we talked about in the letter, moving up to the 100 megawatts per month in the next month or 6 weeks, another major milestone. And then lastly, the stationary -- large-scale stationary product, we're going to be shipping the first large-scale systems in Q2. So those are near-term milestones that are very important for us because it's really going to come from shipping more product, which is a big chunk of what we're going to do this year, and that is already accretive to leveraging the facilities, which we get through volume and then the gas improvements that we already see with natural gas prices abating as well as turning on the green hydrogen facility.

正如我們在信中談到的那樣，在下個月或 6 週內提高到每月 100 兆瓦，這是另一個重要的里程碑。最後，固定式——大型固定式產品，我們將在第二季度推出第一批大型系統。所以這些都是近期的里程碑，對我們來說非常重要，因為它真的會來自運送更多的產品，這是我們今年要做的事情的很大一部分，而且這已經增加了對設施的利用，我們通過數量獲得，然後我們已經看到天然氣價格下降以及開啟綠色氫設施的天然氣改善。

So all those are important. And in terms of cadence, clearly, we're going to still have kind of the 1/3, 2/3 phenomenon seasonality of our sales for a number of reasons. Volume helps a lot. So you're going to see a bigger impact in the second half, both in terms of the volume as well as those cost-down efforts. But you will absolutely see progression and improvement in Q1 sequentially and moving on through the course of the year given those -- the improvements we're already seeing and things like the natural gas, cost abatements that we're already seeing benefits now. So I think as the year progresses, we get to Q4, it's going to be a big quarter for us and a big year in terms of profitability.

所以這些都很重要。就節奏而言，顯然，出於多種原因，我們的銷售仍然會有 1/3、2/3 的季節性現象。音量有很大幫助。所以你會在下半年看到更大的影響，無論是在數量上還是在降低成本方面。但是你絕對會看到第一季度的進展和改進，並在這一年中繼續前進——我們已經看到的改進以及天然氣、成本削減等我們現在已經看到的好處。所以我認為隨著時間的推移，我們到了第四季度，這對我們來說將是一個重要的季度，也是盈利能力的重要一年。

Got it.

知道了。

Sanjay, do you want to comment on natural gas at all? Because I know there is a slight delay.

Sanjay，你想對天然氣發表評論嗎？因為我知道有一點延遲。

Right. So Eric, as you recall, right, so there's about a quarter delay before we see the benefit of the decline in the natural gas price starting to flow into our cost of molecule. And another thing which is -- and by the way, when we talked about our margin cadence for the fuel business, we were thinking about natural gas maybe at around $4 an MMBtu by the end of the year. Clearly, the numbers are much lower than that. And if this trend holds, that certainly would be very helpful. And one final thing, I'll be amiss if I didn't mention this, as our plans come online, the cost actually is 1/3 for us versus what we're paying in the market today that will actually have a pretty meaningful impact to how the trajectory changes for our fuel margin business throughout 2023.

正確的。所以埃里克，正如你記得的那樣，在我們看到天然氣價格下降的好處開始流入我們的分子成本之前，大約有四分之一的延遲。另一件事是——順便說一下，當我們談到燃料業務的利潤率節奏時，我們正在考慮到年底天然氣可能會達到每百萬英熱單位 4 美元左右。顯然，數字遠低於此。如果這種趨勢持續下去，那肯定會非常有幫助。最後一件事，如果我不提這個我就錯了，因為我們的計劃上線了，我們的成本實際上是我們今天在市場上支付的成本的 1/3，這實際上非常有意義對我們整個 2023 年燃料利潤率業務軌跡變化的影響。

Yes. No, absolutely. And then maybe just a follow-up on a previous question. When you think about the credit and you talked about a 70% capture rate, I mean, if I'm doing the math right, I mean, that would seem like roughly $350 million a year, incremental. And if I think about what you're going to -- you're planning to double green hydrogen production over the next, call it, 3, 4 years beyond 2025. But your capture rate is a little bit more than cut in half, I mean that's a number, that's $350 million. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a number that could be pretty constant as we look out on an annual basis.

是的。不，絕對。然後可能只是對上一個問題的跟進。當你考慮信用並談到 70% 的捕獲率時，我的意思是，如果我計算正確，我的意思是，這似乎是每年大約 3.5 億美元，增量。如果我考慮你打算做什麼——你計劃在接下來的 2025 年之後的 3、4 年內將綠色氫氣產量翻一番。但是你的捕獲率比減半略多一點，我的意思是這是一個數字，即 3.5 億美元。如果我錯了，請糾正我，但隨著我們每年觀察，這個數字可能會非常穩定。

Do you want to comment on that, Sanjay? I guess I will -- I'll just make one comment, and then I'll hand it off to you, Sanjay. That's assuming that our plants for what we build stay flat, which I think probably will continue to build more plants. But go ahead, Sanjay.

你想對此發表評論嗎，Sanjay？我想我會——我只會發表一個評論，然後我會把它交給你，Sanjay。這是假設我們建造的工廠保持平穩，我認為這可能會繼續建造更多的工廠。但是繼續吧，桑傑。

Yes. And Eric, math-wise, you're absolutely right, right? That's 500 tons, 70% capture rate, that's the number. But as Andy mentioned, right, obviously, 500 tons is number at a point in time and given how big this hydrogen economy and hydrogen ecosystem is going to be as we get to that time frame and beyond that, obviously, those numbers are going to go up. And if the capture rate stays lower than that, steady cash flow number only goes up.

是的。埃里克，在數學方面，你是絕對正確的，對吧？那是 500 噸，70% 的捕獲率，就是這個數字。但正如 Andy 提到的那樣，很明顯，500 噸是某個時間點的數字，考慮到氫經濟和氫生態系統在我們到達那個時間框架時將會有多大，並且超過那個時間框架，顯然，這些數字將會上。如果捕獲率保持低於此水平，穩定的現金流量只會上升。

Our next question comes from Sam Burwell with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Sam Burwell。

On the top line in the quarter, came in a little bit light than what the guidance that you gave a month ago implied. And I think you guys explained that the guide down back at the business update was due to operational hiccups related to the electrolyzer ramp and rollout. So curious what caused the number to come in light and if those issues have been resolved? And then just how to think about how electrolyzers should ramp up through the year and how that impacts top line gross margins?

在本季度的收入中，比您一個月前給出的指導要輕一些。我想你們解釋說，業務更新時的指南是由於與電解槽斜坡和推出相關的操作問題造成的。很好奇是什麼導致這個數字曝光，這些問題是否已經解決？然後如何考慮電解槽在這一年中應該如何增加以及這將如何影響頂線毛利率？

There are actually 2 questions there, Sam, the first one, I will let Paul address by the quarter was a little light. And the second one, I'll let Sanjay talk about the ramp of the electrolyzer business. So Paul.

實際上有 2 個問題，Sam，第一個問題，我會讓 Paul 在本季度稍微輕鬆一點。第二個，我讓 Sanjay 談談電解槽業務的增長。所以保羅。

Yes. I think a combination of some of the issues that we shared and talked about previously in addition to -- it was a meaningful chunk of activity associated with our acquisitions. And when you're moving what was effectively private companies into public company space and working through all their processes and accounting for new models, new structures, new programs, it felt -- in going through that, a little conservative to kind of error towards moving some of that into 2023 until we get all those processes finalized and finished.

是的。我認為我們之前分享和討論的一些問題的結合 - 這是與我們的收購相關的有意義的活動。當你將實際上是私營公司的東西轉移到上市公司空間並研究他們的所有流程並考慮新模型、新結構、新程序時，感覺——在經歷這些過程中，有點保守，有點錯誤將其中一些移至 2023 年，直到我們完成所有這些流程。

The good news is it's -- the volume and the sales are there. So it's really just a timing thing. It's not like the volume was not there. So -- but as we continue to improve that, it will be -- a stronger process is more predictable, easier to manage moving forward. So that was kind of the final piece as we work through the numbers. And again, high-class problem, but it was fairly meaningful in terms of the volume, which is a good problem. So in terms of the electrolyzer scope and the timing and cadence, do you want to talk about that, Sanjay?

好消息是——數量和銷量都在那裡。所以這真的只是一個時間問題。這不像音量不存在。所以 - 但隨著我們繼續改進它，它將會 - 更強大的流程更可預測，更容易管理向前發展。所以這是我們處理數字時的最後一部分。再一次，高級問題，但就數量而言，這是一個相當有意義的問題，這是一個很好的問題。那麼就電解槽範圍、時間和節奏而言，你想談談這個嗎，Sanjay？

Sure. Happy to do that. Again, I think the way we are managing and running our electrolyzer business, right, is essentially there's 2 pieces to that business. One, we have a project business and we have a product business where we're really focusing on standardization, turnkey products. Now within our project business, there's a lot of synergies that we can draw from our internal project as well as things that we're doing for the external customer like the work we have going on with New Fortress Energy. That's our project business, which I think, given the scope and size of that, that ends up becoming more on a percent of the completion accounting and timing of how the project ramps and rolls out.

當然。很高興這樣做。同樣，我認為我們管理和運營電解槽業務的方式，對，基本上是該業務的兩個部分。第一，我們有項目業務和產品業務，我們真正專注於標準化、交鑰匙產品。現在，在我們的項目業務中，我們可以從內部項目以及我們為外部客戶所做的事情中汲取很多協同效應，比如我們與 New Fortress Energy 正在進行的工作。這就是我們的項目業務，我認為，考慮到它的範圍和規模，它最終會更多地依賴於完成會計和項目如何啟動和推出的時間安排。

Now from a product standpoint with our 1-megawatt architecture and 5-megawatt architecture, especially with our 5-megawatt turnkey product, this is really making green hydrogen easy, if you would, for our customers because all our customer need in that case is land and water and availability of power. We are providing levels of product that's absolutely turnkey. And as you saw in some of our comments in our shareholder letter, since the launch of the product, we've seen tremendous traction there, right?

現在從產品的角度來看，我們的 1 兆瓦架構和 5 兆瓦架構，尤其是我們的 5 兆瓦交鑰匙產品，如果您願意的話，對於我們的客戶來說，這確實使綠色氫變得容易，因為在這種情況下，我們所有的客戶需求是土地和水域以及電力供應。我們提供的產品級別絕對是交鑰匙的。正如您在我們的股東信中的一些評論中看到的那樣，自產品推出以來，我們在那裡看到了巨大的吸引力，對吧？

Now in terms of a meaningful revenue ramp, you will see that become very meaningful as you go towards the latter part of Q3 and really into Q4 from a timing of when the installation happens, how the revenue gets recognized, but as Paul mentioned, we're looking at electrolyzer being about 30% of our overall revenue in 2023. But from a cadence standpoint, that's how you should think about it.

現在，就有意義的收入增長而言，隨著安裝時間的推移，進入第三季度末並真正進入第四季度，你會發現這變得非常有意義，收入如何得到確認，但正如保羅所說，我們我們預計電解槽將在 2023 年占我們總收入的 30% 左右。但從節奏的角度來看，這就是你應該考慮的方式。

Okay. Really helpful, especially delineating between project and product. I mean this sort of begs the question of my follow-up. I mean, I'm trying to reconcile the sales funnel with the order backlog. I mean there's sentiment out there that the reaction to the IRA thus far has been underwhelming, but it is very new, and there's a lot to digest. Do you think that your customers are still digesting the details on all the nuances of the PTC and any other IRA implications before converting their inbound to, say, a firm order?

好的。真的很有幫助，尤其是在項目和產品之間進行描述。我的意思是這種迴避了我的後續問題。我的意思是，我正在嘗試協調銷售漏斗與訂單積壓。我的意思是，人們認為迄今為止對 IRA 的反應平淡無奇，但它是非常新的，而且有很多東西需要消化。您是否認為您的客戶在將他們的入站轉換為確定訂單之前仍在消化 PTC 的所有細微差別和任何其他 IRA 影響的細節？

So Sam, I'll take that one. Let me take a step back at a higher level, I think how businesses respond is what seems like to you and investor is slow, for some of these large companies is actually quite fast. So I do think there is a little bit of difference there.

所以山姆，我要那個。讓我在更高的層次上退一步，我認為企業的反應在你看來是這樣的，而投資者是緩慢的，因為其中一些大公司實際上是相當快的。所以我確實認為那裡有一點不同。

On the second item, I -- we do -- I think we mentioned in the shareholder letter, we probably booked 30 of these 5-megawatt systems in the last 2, 3 months of last year. So there has been uptake. That being said, I think that treasury will be coming out in July with the guidance. I'm not going to use the final guidance because it will -- there's always an evolution but I think when treasury comes out with its guidance that it will help finalize business cases in some companies, which will allow there to be greater momentum.

關於第二個項目，我 - 我們確實 - 我想我們在股東信中提到，我們可能在去年的最後 2、3 個月預訂了 30 個這樣的 5 兆瓦系統。所以有人接受了。話雖如此，我認為財政部將在 7 月份發布指導意見。我不會使用最終指南，因為它會——總會有變化，但我認為，當財政部出台指南時，它將幫助最終確定一些公司的業務案例，這將帶來更大的動力。

Look, when I look at Plug, $1.4 billion this year is a fairly good traction with the IRA but I do think that -- I do understand how investors may look at it and how large companies can look at it. I can tell you, next week, I'll be at CERAWeek for 3.5 days. And I proudly -- in 40 hours of meetings already established mostly with folks who are looking at electrolyzers.

看，當我看 Plug 時，今年 14 億美元對 IRA 來說是一個相當不錯的吸引力，但我確實認為——我確實理解投資者如何看待它以及大公司如何看待它。我可以告訴你，下週，我將在 CERAWeek 待 3.5 天。我很自豪——在 40 個小時的會議中，主要是與正在研究電解槽的人們建立了聯繫。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Biju Perincheril with Susquehanna.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Biju Perincheril 和 Susquehanna。

A quick question on the cryo equipment business. Just trying to understand the opportunity there. Can you talk about how big this could be for third-party sales? Are you looking at this mostly to serve your internal needs? Or any color you can give there on the potential to ramp there?

關於低溫設備業務的快速問題。只是想了解那裡的機會。你能談談這對第三方銷售有多大影響嗎？你看這主要是為了滿足你的內部需求嗎？或者你可以給那裡提供任何顏色來說明那裡的潛力？

I'm sorry, Biju. I missed the (inaudible). I heard the rest of your question.

對不起，碧珠。我錯過了（聽不清）。我聽到了你剩下的問題。

The cryo equipment?

低溫設備？

Absolutely. So if I look at the cryo equipment, we've -- I would say when we look at the trailer business, Sanjay, how much -- how many trailers do we expect from a percentage-wise to grow this year, better external? It's a fairly significant number.

絕對地。因此，如果我看一下冷凍設備，我們 - 我會說，當我們看拖車業務時，Sanjay，我們預計今年會有多少拖車按百分比增長，更好的是外部？這是一個相當可觀的數字。

Absolutely. And every 15-ton plant needs a 7 trailer not to even include all the storeys that they're going to need, right?

絕對地。每個 15 噸重的工廠都需要一輛 7 拖車，這還不包括他們需要的所有樓層，對嗎？

But I know that there's probably 20 trailers that -- or hydrogen trailers that we're building or have been built that we're looking to ship and that we can see that as we sell our liquefier and electrolyzer products, people are coming to us about our cryogenic trailers too. And we're actually looking at to expand the facility that we have in Houston to be able to support the demand.

但我知道可能有 20 輛拖車——或者我們正在建造或已經建造的氫拖車，我們正在尋找運輸，我們可以看到，當我們銷售我們的液化器和電解器產品時，人們會來找我們關於我們的低溫拖車。我們實際上正在考慮擴大我們在休斯頓的設施，以便能夠支持需求。

On the liquefier, we are a real believer that during the next 10 years, liquid hydrogen is going to be the primary most cost-effective means of transporting hydrogen any distances. And we believe that ultimately, the liquefiers also will be used off hydrogen pipeline to be able to deliver high-quality storage of people who are not on the pipeline.

在液化器方面，我們堅信在未來 10 年內，液態氫將成為遠距離運輸氫氣的最主要、最具成本效益的方式。我們相信，最終，液化器也將用於氫管道之外，以便能夠為不在管道上的人提供高質量的存儲。

So we -- this year, we already, I know Sanjay have 4 contracts, 4 liquefiers we sold and that we're looking to continue to increase that number and there's a great deal of sales activity. So the cryo business is -- and I'm going to circle somewhere between $150 million to $200 million this year. Is that a fair number?

所以我們 - 今年，我們已經，我知道 Sanjay 有 4 份合同，我們出售了 4 台液化器，我們希望繼續增加這個數字，並且有大量的銷售活動。所以低溫業務是 - 我今年將在 1.5 億美元到 2 億美元之間圈出。這是一個公平的數字嗎？

It's a fair number, Andy. Yes.

這是一個公平的數字，安迪。是的。

Yes. So Biju, yes, it is an important part of our business model. But I also think you hit on another key point. The internal use of those products, we bought those businesses primarily for security of supply as well as using the cost savings we have from those at cryogenic equipment actually more than pays for the acquisitions. So it's a combination that the acquisitions are working and for both our own use and external use.

是的。所以 Biju，是的，它是我們商業模式的重要組成部分。但我也認為你說到了另一個關鍵點。這些產品的內部使用，我們購買這些業務主要是為了供應安全，以及使用我們從低溫設備中節省的成本實際上超過了收購的成本。因此，收購正在發揮作用，既供我們自己使用，也供外部使用。

And our next question comes from Kashy Harrison with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Kashy Harrison 和 Piper Sandler。

Andy, so I wanted to dig in a little bit to the Q4 results, just one more time. Looking at the fuel cell systems and infrastructure line, that's been a consistent 20% gross margin business and it dipped in 4Q. Could you just expand on what the drivers were there? And then a similar question for services and the loss provision line, they increased a bit in Q4. So just maybe walk us through what happened there and what drives the confidence that those should start to improve starting in Q1 and Q2?

安迪，所以我想再深入了解一下第四季度的結果。看看燃料電池系統和基礎設施線，這是一個始終保持 20% 毛利率的業務，並且在第四季度有所下降。您能否詳細說明那裡的驅動程序是什麼？然後是服務和損失撥備線的類似問題，它們在第四季度有所增加。那麼，也許可以讓我們了解那裡發生的事情，以及是什麼讓我們相信這些應該從第一季度和第二季度開始改善？

Go ahead, Paul.

去吧，保羅。

Yes. So in the equipment line, it now reflects all equipment across the company. And what you see in Q4 was a fairly large investment in new product and new manufacturing facilities. So you probably have seen, we've talked extensively about launching 2 large-scale facilities, one here in Latham and one up in Rochester. Those are just coming online and starting to ramp. So the combination of, we call it, unfavorable leverage at those initial phases of turning this on in conjunction with launching a number of new products, which you always have some new product experience as you scale those initial products off our line. Those are what you're seeing negatively draw down equipment margin.

是的。所以在設備線中，它現在反映了整個公司的所有設備。你在第四季度看到的是對新產品和新製造設施的相當大的投資。所以你可能已經看到，我們已經廣泛討論了啟動 2 個大型設施的問題，一個在萊瑟姆，一個在羅切斯特。那些剛剛上線並開始增加。因此，我們稱之為在啟動這些初始階段的不利槓桿作用與推出許多新產品相結合，當您將這些初始產品從我們的生產線上擴展時，您總是會有一些新產品體驗。這些就是您所看到的對設備利潤率產生負面影響的原因。

As we rolled into 2023, you're going to see a step function change in leverage on those facilities. And so it's a pretty big volume benefit that you're going to see in addition to working out the kinks on those products for now up to launching that first large-scale stationary and electrolyzers at scale. And so we've worked through a lot of those initial bumps and bruises and speed bumps that you have when you do that. And so this year, particularly as we progress through the year, you're going to continue to see not just the leverage, but the margin accretion as we continue to scale those products and work through those issues.

隨著我們進入 2023 年，您將看到這些設施的槓桿作用發生階躍函數變化。因此，除了解決這些產品的問題，直到大規模推出第一個大型固定式和電解槽之外，你還將看到一個相當大的數量優勢。因此，我們已經解決了您在執行此操作時遇到的許多初始顛簸、挫傷和減速帶。因此，今年，特別是隨著我們在這一年的進步，隨著我們繼續擴大這些產品的規模並解決這些問題，您將不僅會看到槓桿作用，還會看到利潤率的增加。

On the service line, it's really -- last year was affected in part with supply chain and other issues that we talked about, we're getting access to parts. We have a number of programs, which we've seen tremendous benefits in the small population of sites and units that we've deployed them to. And we just didn't get as far along as we'd hoped to into putting those programs in place. Having said that, we've now worked through a lot of those issues and got the parts coming in, and we've got active collaboration with the customers to do that and roll that out at a much faster scale in '23. So we're more confident than ever in terms of the benefits that we're seeing in those reliability investments.

在服務線上，它真的 - 去年部分受到我們談到的供應鍊和其他問題的影響，我們正在獲得零件。我們有許多項目，我們已經在我們部署它們的少數站點和單位中看到了巨大的好處。而且我們只是沒有像我們希望的那樣將這些程序付諸實施。話雖如此，我們現在已經解決了很多這些問題並獲得了零件，我們已經與客戶積極合作來做到這一點，並在 23 年以更快的規模推出。因此，就我們在這些可靠性投資中看到的好處而言，我們比以往任何時候都更有信心。

And so as you see those start to play through, you'll definitely see a significant positive trajectory in that service margin. And to be honest, as we move forward, I'm hoping that we're even hopefully (inaudible) on the service profile so that we're hopefully conservative in terms of where our position was in some of those loss positions that we accrued. But we'll see as the first -- there's some the first half will be important to really show that progress, and we're seeing that already in the first couple of months. And so I think we're going to have real good progressions in the year.

因此，當您看到這些開始發揮作用時，您肯定會看到該服務利潤率出現顯著的積極軌跡。老實說，隨著我們的前進，我希望我們甚至希望（聽不清）服務概況，以便我們希望在我們累積的一些損失頭寸中保持保守.但我們會看到第一個 - 上半年有一些對於真正展示這一進展很重要，我們已經在前幾個月看到了這一點。所以我認為我們將在這一年取得真正好的進展。

Thanks for the detail, Paul. Really, really appreciate it. Just had one quick follow-up on liquidity and cash. Just looking at cash, short-term securities, restricted cash on the balance sheet, just summing all of those up, it looks like you guys used about $1.4 billion of cash. I was just wondering if you could speak to your expectations on cash usage in 2023? And then maybe also discuss how we should be thinking about the timing and size of the DOE loan, if there's been any evolution in your expectations there?

謝謝你的詳細信息，保羅。真的，真的很感激。剛剛對流動性和現金進行了一次快速跟進。看看資產負債表上的現金、短期證券、受限制的現金，把所有這些加起來，看起來你們用了大約 14 億美元的現金。我只是想知道您是否可以談談您對 2023 年現金使用情況的預期？然後也許還討論我們應該如何考慮 DOE 貸款的時間和規模，如果您的期望有任何變化？

Yes. I appreciate that. When I look at cash, I look at the total pool of the equity investments, the short-term securities. I mean they all are liquid short term in nature. We obviously try and maximize spread and leverage on those from an investment standpoint. Given the market rates, you're actually -- you see a big tick-up in the interest rates, and you'll see more of that this year as we go forward.

是的。我很感激。當我看現金時，我看的是股權投資的總池，即短期證券。我的意思是它們本質上都是流動性短期的。從投資的角度來看，我們顯然會嘗試最大化利差和槓桿作用。考慮到市場利率，你實際上 - 你看到利率大幅上漲，並且隨著我們前進，今年你會看到更多。

But collectively, I sit with close to $3 billion in total cash liquidity, even the restricted cash, I mean that's basically releases to me at about 20%, 25% a year. So it helps fund our business as we move forward as it does -- the equity investments and so forth as those turned. So I'm sitting with a great position, and you probably saw that we paid off generates. So I really don't have any debt currently, as I said, because the small -- very small portion of converts to have is like 4x, 6x in the money. So that will convert out.

但總的來說，我坐擁近 30 億美元的現金流動性總額，即使是受限制的現金，我的意思是，這基本上是以每年約 20%、25% 的速度釋放給我。因此，隨著我們向前發展，它有助於為我們的業務提供資金——股權投資等等。所以我坐在一個很好的位置，你可能看到我們還清了產生。所以我目前真的沒有任何債務，正如我所說的，因為一小部分 - 非常小的一部分皈依者擁有的錢大約是 4 倍，6 倍。這樣就會轉換出來。

And so I sit with a fairly basically unleveraged balance sheet and so we sit in a good position to fund the pipeline this year. And with the progression that we're showing in both sales and margin, it puts me in a much stronger position in terms of options. Fortunately, we have a great relationship with the DOE and they're actively working with us trying to close that program. It's a process as probably you know and appreciate, they're really going through all of the due diligence as we speak, which is pretty vast. I mean, they use industrial engineers to look at our plants, they're looking to hire outside firms to do financial diligence.

因此，我的資產負債表基本沒有槓桿，因此我們處於為今年的管道提供資金的有利位置。隨著我們在銷售額和利潤率方面的進步，這讓我在選擇方面處於更有利的地位。幸運的是，我們與 DOE 有著良好的關係，他們正在積極與我們合作，試圖關閉該項目。您可能知道並欣賞這個過程，正如我們所說的那樣，他們確實在進行所有盡職調查，這是非常龐大的。我的意思是，他們使用工業工程師來檢查我們的工廠，他們正在尋求聘請外部公司來進行財務盡職調查。

There's a lot of different processes they go through. But we've been talking about an outline of a $1 billion program. Things that are mutually we're working on a concept, a contract that we mutually aligned on and we're working diligently to bring that to fruition.

他們經歷了很多不同的過程。但我們一直在談論一項 10 億美元計劃的大綱。我們正在研究一個概念，一個我們相互一致的合同，我們正在努力工作以實現這一目標。

And fortunately, I have other options available to me given the strength of the balance sheet and the position I'm in as we move through the year, including leveraging the Georgia facility and other facilities that we're going to turn on this year to circulate that capital. Those are very attractive programs given the PTC and the nature of those and the cash generation opportunities there. So I think in the second half, you'll see either something in the DOE space or other programs that we'll act on. But I feel really good about the DOE program, and I feel like that's a very real opportunity that has high probability coming to fruition. So we'll see as the months progress, what makes sense for Plug.

幸運的是，鑑於資產負債表的實力和我在這一年中所處的位置，我還有其他選擇，包括利用佐治亞州設施和我們今年將啟用的其他設施來流通該資本。鑑於 PTC 及其性質以及那裡的現金產生機會，這些都是非常有吸引力的計劃。所以我認為在下半年，你會看到 DOE 空間中的某些東西或我們將採取行動的其他計劃。但我對 DOE 計劃感覺非常好，我覺得這是一個非常真實的機會，很有可能實現。因此，隨著幾個月的進展，我們將看到對 Plug 有意義的事情。

And our next question comes from Bill Peterson with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的比爾彼得森。

Sorry, I am in the airport, might be loud. So I apologize if (inaudible). My first question is -- it's related to your production cost. In the February 3 presentation, you talked about near-term production costs about $4 per kilogram. Just want to make sure that's still the right way to think about it as we think about Georgia (inaudible) the next month or so. Your confidence level around that. That's right -- and then how that would compare against the comparable programs that may be coming online, I guess, through -- I guess probably later than '24 time frame from your competitors?

抱歉，我在機場，可能聲音很大。因此，如果（聽不清），我深表歉意。我的第一個問題是 - 它與您的生產成本有關。在 2 月 3 日的演講中，您談到了每公斤 4 美元的近期生產成本。只是想確保這仍然是我們在下個月左右考慮佐治亞州（聽不清）時考慮它的正確方法。你對此的信心水平。沒錯——然後與可能上線的可比較程序相比如何，我猜，通過——我猜可能晚於你的競爭對手的 24 時間框架？

Sanjay, do you want to take that?

Sanjay，你要拿那個嗎？

Yes. Happy to do that. Again, Bill, from a portfolio perspective, right, that $4 number, we are absolutely very confident about that. That's the number we've talked about, and we feel pretty good about it. So when the first 15 ton comes online in Georgia, the number will be a little bit north of that. But we have other plants that are actually even better rates at the electricity that actually, we have lower numbers than that, right? So I think from a portfolio perspective, when you think about our overall cost of green hydrogen, that's about the right number. So that's correct, number one.

是的。很高興這樣做。再次，比爾，從投資組合的角度來看，正確的，4 美元的數字，我們對此非常有信心。這是我們討論過的數字，我們對此感覺很好。因此，當第一個 15 噸在佐治亞州上線時，這個數字會稍微偏北一點。但我們還有其他電廠，實際上電費率更高，實際上，我們的電廠數量比那少，對吧？所以我認為從投資組合的角度來看，當你考慮我們綠色氫的總體成本時，這個數字是正確的。所以這是正確的，第一。

And number two, when you then think about -- and the goal here, right, is we just want to make sure that we keep driving the CapEx numbers down, which obviously impacts the depreciation cost and the overall cost of that hydrogen molecule. But more importantly, we're really thinking about where can you get the lowest possible cost of that renewable electrode, right? That has a much bigger impact in terms of driving that cost down. And directionally, you will actually see that as costs continue to go down.

第二，當你想想——這裡的目標是，我們只是想確保我們繼續推動資本支出數字下降，這顯然會影響折舊成本和氫分子的總成本。但更重要的是，我們真的在考慮從哪裡可以以最低的成本獲得可再生電極，對嗎？這在降低成本方面具有更大的影響。從方向上講，您實際上會看到，隨著成本繼續下降。

Okay, great. My second one is, I guess, it's more related to potential offtake or strategy around heavy duty. We talked about how we're doing in the past and as last year, you did announce Nikola as an offtake and Plug to be buying trucks. But I guess you have also at the same time, more experience with HYVIA. So wanted to get a feel for how you're thinking about your strategy for heavy-duty trucking. Partnerships, JVs, or just maybe just have offtake agreements with the likes of Nikola or other players?

好的，太好了。我想我的第二個是，它更多地與潛在的承購或圍繞重型的戰略有關。我們談到了我們過去的表現，就像去年一樣，您確實宣布 Nikola 作為承購商，而 Plug 將購買卡車。但我想您同時對 HYVIA 也有更多的體驗。所以想了解一下您是如何考慮重型卡車運輸戰略的。合作夥伴關係、合資企業，或者只是與 Nikola 或其他參與者等公司簽訂承購協議？

So Bill, that's -- we have lots of discussions at the Board level about the potentials of the heavy-duty vehicle market. I think first and foremost, we are quite interested in offtake agreements. Like the one we did with Nikola. I think that the question we struggle with is does the margin associated with being a heavy-duty vehicle provider in the long term align with the margin goal of our company.

所以比爾，那是——我們在董事會層面就重型汽車市場的潛力進行了很多討論。我認為首先，我們對承購協議非常感興趣。就像我們對尼古拉所做的那樣。我認為我們面臨的問題是，從長遠來看，與重型汽車供應商相關的利潤率是否與我們公司的利潤率目標一致。

So we can -- I would say this, I can tell you what we're not going to do. We're not going to independently build a heavy-duty trucking company. We do look at and we continue to explore potential JVs. So if I was going to give you an order, Bill, we'll sell hydrogen to anyone in the heavy-duty vehicle industry. We'll look at JVs but with a very thoughtful eye thinking about the long-term margin profile of that industry. Possibility we could just sell ProGen engines, which may be more attractive to us or even, I think, for real heavy volume stacks. And the third one is we're not going to do it all.

所以我們可以——我會這樣說，我可以告訴你我們不會做什麼。我們不會獨立建立重型卡車運輸公司。我們確實關注並繼續探索潛在的合資企業。因此，如果我要給你一個訂單，比爾，我們將向重型汽車行業的任何人出售氫氣。我們將審視合資企業，但會以非常深思熟慮的眼光思考該行業的長期利潤狀況。我們可能只出售 ProGen 引擎，這可能對我們更有吸引力，甚至，我認為，對於真正的大容量堆棧。第三個是我們不會全部都做。

The next question comes from Sherif Elmaghrabi with BTIG. Mr. Elmaghrabi, your line is open. Go ahead.

下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Sherif Elmaghrabi。 Elmaghrabi 先生，您的電話已開通。前進。

Can you hear me now?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you.

是的，我們能聽到你的聲音。

All right. Sorry about that. I wanted to ask a couple of quick ones, following up on Manav at the top of the call about material handling. Last quarter, I think you said about 35% of the material handling business was small and midsized. And how is that trending given you guys are targeting a handful of new pedestal customers this year?

好的。對於那個很抱歉。我想問幾個快速的問題，在關於材料處理的電話會議的頂部跟進 Manav。上個季度，我想你說過大約 35% 的物料搬運業務是中小型企業。鑑於你們今年瞄準了少數新的基座客戶，這種趨勢如何？

Good question. I would think that -- when I look at the coming deployments over the next 6 to 7 months because some of our large pedestal customers are beginning to deploy at a faster rate again. It will probably be mixed. That mix is probably 75%, 80% for large sites in the first half of the year and then probably settling back into the medium -- the 35% number we shared previously in the second half of the year.

好問題。我認為 - 當我查看未來 6 到 7 個月即將進行的部署時，因為我們的一些大型基座客戶再次開始以更快的速度進行部署。它可能會混合。今年上半年，這種混合可能是 75%，對於大型網站來說是 80%，然後可能會回到媒體中——我們之前在下半年分享的 35% 的數字。

That's helpful. And then to follow up, you said you were targeting 50 to 60 new pedestal customer sites. Are any of those with existing customers? Or is that more of a proxy for adding new pedestal?

這很有幫助。然後跟進，你說你的目標是 50 到 60 個新的基礎客戶站點。有現有客戶嗎？或者更多的是添加新基座的代理？

Yes. I -- so let me make sure I'm clear about the numbers, Sherif. We'll do 80 deployments in material handling this year. We will add 3 new pedestal customers this year. So those pedestal customers could over the coming years deploy anywhere between 5 to 10 sites per year, just to kind of make sure that the numbers are clear to you.

是的。我——所以讓我確保我清楚這些數字，Sherif。今年我們將在物料搬運方面進行 80 次部署。今年我們將增加 3 個新的基座客戶。因此，這些基礎客戶可以在未來幾年內每年部署 5 到 10 個站點，只是為了確保您清楚這些數字。

And our next question comes from Ameet Thakkar with BMO Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 Ameet Thakkar。

Just real quick on the GenDrive units sold for the year. It looked like it was around (inaudible). I was just wondering that's lower than it was last year in the prior year. I was just wondering if you could give a little bit of color on kind of what's driving kind of the, I guess, maybe some of the smaller numbers than we expected for this year?

當年售出的 GenDrive 裝置真的很快。看起來它就在附近（聽不清）。我只是想知道這比前一年的去年要低。我只是想知道你是否可以給出一些關於驅動因素的顏色，我猜，也許是一些比我們今年預期的要小的數字？

Yes. I think that -- and we -- and it's really related to what I talked about in January, Ameet, with the construction at our customer sites being slowed down because of the challenges in supply chain and so this year, the number of sites we will do will be 2x, and we know where they're going. So that's really -- it really was more -- it was more on the -- it was really on the customer side and their ability to -- so much of our products go into new facilities with some of our customers. That really -- that was really where the delay is.

是的。我認為 - 我們 - 這確實與我在 1 月份談到的內容有關，Ameet，由於供應鏈方面的挑戰，我們客戶站點的建設正在放緩，所以今年，我們的站點數量will do will be 2x，我們知道他們要去哪裡。所以這真的 - 它真的更多 - 它更多 - 它真的在客戶方面和他們的能力 - 我們的很多產品都與我們的一些客戶一起進入新設施。真的 - 那真的是延遲所在。

Got it. And then just one quick housekeeping issue. Like you guys reaffirmed '23 revenue and gross margins, but the operating income margins. I think you guys are targeting minus 24% for '23, but that's still unchanged, right?

知道了。然後只是一個快速的內務管理問題。就像你們重申了 23 年的收入和毛利率，但營業利潤率。我認為你們在 23 年的目標是負 24%，但這仍然沒有改變，對吧？

I will let Paul answer that, Ameet, to make sure you get the right answer. Paul?

我會讓 Paul 回答這個問題，Ameet，以確保你得到正確的答案。保羅？

Yes. Let me just clarify. So it was $1.4 billion, 10% gross margins and what I've talked about is kind of a $125 million per quarter OpEx rate is roughly as a proxy. So that kind of gives you the math in terms of -- yes, the 24% being negative, yes, that was the number, and that's roughly directionally in that range.

是的。讓我澄清一下。所以它是 14 億美元，10% 的毛利率，我所說的是每季度 1.25 億美元的 OpEx 率大致是一個代理。所以那種給你的數學是——是的，24% 是負的，是的，那是數字，而且大致在那個範圍內是定向的。

And our next question comes from Craig Shere with Tuohy Brothers.

我們的下一個問題來自 Craig Shere 和 Tuohy Brothers。

Andy, Sanjay and Paul, so on the answer to Kashy's question, I was a little confused, Paul. If you're successful with the DOE loan, do you not need to back-lever and recycle the capital loan in the green hydrogen network?

Andy、Sanjay 和 Paul，關於 Kashy 問題的答案，Paul，我有點困惑。如果你成功獲得了 DOE 貸款，你是否不需要在綠色氫網絡中收回和回收資本貸款？

Yes. No, I understand. The answer is it would probably be either/or. We could do one or the other. There is a chance that we could do both. When you have a $5 billion balance sheet by itself, you theoretically could leverage up that. It's in isolation as well as back-lever those individual plant facilities. So I would say everything is in the mix, Craig, and I'm going to -- we're going to work through the best capital decision for Plug. So I'm excited about the DOE program. I think it's a very viable and exciting potential program for us. But the good news is the options continue to open up to us even unsolicited inbound opportunities from various lenders and people and banks that we want to make sure we're best positioned to take advantage of the lowest cost of capital and most flexible capital opportunities, and we'll continue to think about what that debt structure is. But I'm very optimistic about the DOE, I think that's a very viable and likely scenario. But likewise, we're going to certainly nurture different opportunities as well and make the best decision. So hopefully, that helps.

是的。不，我明白。答案可能是非此即彼。我們可以做一個或另一個。我們有可能兩者都做。當你自己擁有 50 億美元的資產負債表時，理論上你可以利用它。它是孤立的，也是對那些單獨的工廠設施的支持。所以我會說一切都在混合中，克雷格，我要 - 我們將為 Plug 做出最佳資本決策。所以我對 DOE 計劃感到興奮。我認為這對我們來說是一個非常可行和令人興奮的潛在計劃。但好消息是，這些選擇繼續向我們開放，甚至是來自各種貸方、個人和銀行的主動入境機會，我們希望確保我們處於最佳位置，以利用最低的資本成本和最靈活的資本機會，我們將繼續考慮債務結構是什麼。但我對美國能源部非常樂觀，我認為這是一個非常可行且可能的場景。但同樣，我們當然也會培養不同的機會並做出最佳決定。希望這會有所幫助。

It certainly does. I guess this kind of segues a little on my second question, I don't know if this is kind of like completely off track. But if Sanjay, let's say, we fast forward 9 months at the end of the year and your green hydrogen network and your Olin JV is doing better than it looked like the last 3 months and some of the delays we've seen. And perhaps you're in a position, particularly with lower gas prices, if they sustain here where maybe if you're doing better than expected on the pace of internal hydrogen generation that it might make sense to just buy out some of these money-losing third-party industrial gas contracts given how much liquidity you have and then just have a clean simpler to understand, more attractive set of operations going forward after you bite the bullet. Could that ever make sense if that opportunity ever presents itself?

確實如此。我想我的第二個問題有點像這樣，我不知道這是否有點像完全偏離軌道。但是，如果 Sanjay，比方說，我們在年底快進 9 個月，你的綠色氫網絡和你的 Olin 合資企業的表現比過去 3 個月看起來要好，而且我們已經看到了一些延誤。也許你處於這樣的位置，尤其是在天然氣價格較低的情況下，如果他們在這里維持下去，也許如果你在內部製氫速度方面的表現好於預期，那麼買下其中的一些錢可能是有意義的——考慮到您擁有多少流動性而失去第三方工業氣體合同，然後在您咬緊牙關之後，您將擁有一套更簡單易懂、更具吸引力的操作。如果這個機會出現，這是否有意義？

Craig, all I'll say is that it's a real interesting idea.

克雷格，我只想說這是一個非常有趣的想法。

And our next question comes from Michael Blum with Wells Fargo.

我們的下一個問題來自富國銀行的 Michael Blum。

Just 2 quick. Just wanted to check in on the cost for hydrogen plant. Curious if that $8 million to $9 million per ton per day is still holding steady and how do you expect that to trend over time? And then also just wanted to see what we should assume for CapEx in '23 and maybe '24?

快點2。只是想了解制氫廠的成本。想知道每天每噸 800 萬至 900 萬美元是否仍保持穩定，您認為隨著時間的推移趨勢如何？然後也只是想看看我們應該為 23 年甚至 24 年的資本支出假設什麼？

So Sanjay, do you want to take the first one? And Paul, the second part of that question?

Sanjay，你想拿第一個嗎？保羅，這個問題的第二部分？

Yes. So Michael, no change to that view, right? Obviously, the integrated green hydrogen plant is higher. The feedstock hydrogen plant, the likes of JV with Olin, that's a lower CapEx, right? But we really have no reason to change that number (inaudible) at this point in time. Paul?

是的。所以邁克爾，這個觀點沒有改變，對吧？顯然，一體化綠色氫工廠更高。原料氫工廠，比如與 Olin 的合資企業，資本支出較低，對吧？但我們目前確實沒有理由更改該數字（聽不清）。保羅？

Yes. And I would say we're still targeting $1 billion in CapEx this year. As we go through the year, we'll have better visibility on timing of things. We're trying to accelerate the programs and I'm working behind the scenes, trying to defer the payments, being a good CFO. So we'll see how the timing all that comes together in centers, but that's our focus.

是的。我會說我們今年的資本支出目標仍為 10 億美元。在我們度過這一年的過程中，我們將對事物的時間安排有更好的了解。我們正在努力加快計劃，而我在幕後工作，試圖推遲付款，成為一名優秀的首席財務官。所以我們將看到所有這些在中心聚集在一起的時間，但這是我們的重點。

And there are no further questions at this time. I'll hand the floor back to Andy Marsh for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我會將發言權交還給安迪·馬什 (Andy Marsh) 以致閉幕詞。

Well, thank you, everyone. And many of us from Plug will be in Houston for CERAWeek next week. Please come up and talk to us. I know Sanjay will be there. I'll be there and many other members of the Plug team will be available (inaudible) interested to talk to investors and analysts. So thank you, everyone. Talk to you soon. Bye now.

嗯，謝謝大家。 Plug 的許多人下週將在休斯敦參加 CERAWeek。請上來和我們談談。我知道桑傑會在那裡。我會在那裡，Plug 團隊的許多其他成員將有興趣與投資者和分析師交談（聽不清）。所以謝謝大家。以後再聊。再見了。

Thank you. And with that, we conclude today's conference. All parties may disconnect. Have a great evening.

謝謝。至此，我們結束今天的會議。各方可能會斷開連接。祝你有個愉快的夜晚。