普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Plug Power Third Quarter Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Teal Hoyos, Director of Marketing Communications. Thank you, Teal, you may begin.

您好，歡迎參加 Plug Power 第三季財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，行銷傳播總監 Teal Hoyos。謝謝你，蒂爾，你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2023 third quarter earnings call. This call will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements contain projections of future results of operations or of our financial position or other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝。歡迎參加 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。此次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包含對未來營運績效或我們的財務狀況或其他前瞻性資訊的預測。我們希望這些前瞻性聲明受到 1933 年《證券法》第 27A 條和 1934 年《證券交易法》第 21E 條所載前瞻性陳述安全港條款的涵蓋。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements, and such statements should not be read or understood as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are based upon current expectations, estimates, forecasts and projections as well as the current beliefs and assumptions of management and are subject to significant risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those as discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, the risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factors in our annual report or Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2022, quarterly reports on Form 10-Q for the quarters ending March 31, 2023 and June 30, 2023, and other reports we file from time to time with the SEC.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的期望非常重要。然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被解讀或理解為對未來績效或結果的保證。此類陳述基於當前的預期、估計、預測和推測以及管理層當前的信念和假設，並受到重大風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果或業績與由於各種因素而討論的結果或績效有重大差異。因素，包括但不限於我們截至2022 年12 月31 日的財政年度年度報告或10-K 表中第1A 項風險因素下討論的風險和不確定性，以及截至3 月的季度的10-Q 表中的季度報告2023 年 6 月 31 日和 2023 年 6 月 30 日，以及我們不時向 SEC 提交的其他報告。

These forward-looking statements speak only of the day in which the statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information. At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug Power's CEO, Andy Marsh.

這些前瞻性陳述僅涉及做出陳述的當天，我們不承諾或打算在本次電話會議後或因新資訊而更新任何前瞻性陳述。現在，我想將電話轉給 Plug Power 的執行長 Andy Marsh。

Thank you, Teal, and thank you for joining the third quarter conference call. It was a difficult quarter, driven primarily by the availability of hydrogen. Over the past several months, there has been enormous challenges associated with the availability of hydrogen, primarily due to down plants, including our Tennessee facility and temporary plant outages across the entire hydrogen network. For many days, demand outstripped supply.

謝謝你，蒂爾，也謝謝你參加第三季的電話會議。這是一個困難的季度，主要是由於氫氣的供應。在過去的幾個月裡，氫氣的供應面臨著巨大的挑戰，這主要是由於包括我們田納西州工廠在內的工廠停工以及整個氫氣網路的臨時工廠停工造成的。連續多天供不應求。

For example, many of the California fueling stations have been without fuel or had limited fuel on a regular basis over the past several months. Additionally, the price of these stations for hydrogen has been over $30 per kilogram at the pump, about twice the normal price.

例如，在過去的幾個月裡，加州的許多加油站經常沒有燃料或燃料有限。此外，這些站的氫氣價格已超過每公斤 30 美元，約為正常價格的兩倍。

To service our customers, Plug has been moving hydrogen from the West Coast to the East Coast. This has been a yeoman's effort and has been accomplished while reducing the core cost of hydrogen compared to the second quarter. Good news is the network has now stabilized and many of these planned outages have subsided, plus additional capacity will be coming online. We expect our Tennessee plant will be back online producing hydrogen by the end of the year.

為了服務我們的客戶，Plug 一直在將氫氣從西海岸轉移到東海岸。這是自耕農的努力，並且已經完成，同時與第二季度相比降低了氫氣的核心成本。好消息是網路現已穩定，許多計劃中的中斷已經平息，而且額外的容量也將上線。我們預計我們的田納西州工廠將在今年年底前恢復生產氫氣。

This plant when fully operational provides about 20% of our production needs. One of our major suppliers is upgrading one of their facilities to allow the plant to operate at full nameplate capacity in the coming months. The plant output has been producing between 0% to 25% of capacity. We are continuing to see progress at our Georgia plant, and we are finishing the last step in the construction process, commissioning the liquefier. We expect the plant to be online by year-end.

該工廠全面投入營運後可滿足我們約 20% 的生產需求。我們的主要供應商之一正在升級其設施之一，以使工廠在未來幾個月內能夠滿載運作。該工廠的產量一直在生產能力的 0% 到 25% 之間。我們的喬治亞工廠繼續取得進展，我們正在完成施工過程的最後一步，即調試液化器。我們預計工廠將在年底前上線。

A few other points. Stress hydrogen network also caused the delay and deployment of some of our North American material handling customers. These sites will be commissioned as the hydrogen issues resolve. It's just a timing issue. Many of those facilities actually the fuel cells in hydrogen plant and fueling structure are already available. We believe though that this experience reaffirms the criticality of building our nationwide hydrogen network to support our fuel cell business as well as the financial benefits that this network could accrue to the company for both that business and the additional applications that are beginning to be realized.

其他幾點。壓力氫網路也導致我們的一些北美物料搬運客戶的部署延遲。這些站點將在氫問題解決後投入使用。這只是一個時間問題。其中許多設施實際上已經可用，例如氫氣製造裝置中的燃料電池和燃料結構。但我們相信，這項經驗再次證明了建立全國氫能網路以支持我們的燃料電池業務的重要性，以及該網路可以為公司的業務和開始實現的其他應用帶來的經濟效益。

Furthermore, this experience underscores the wisdom of our business diversification model. In the fourth quarter, we anticipate the revenue from our new ventures will surpass revenue from our traditional business for the first time as our electrolyzers and cryogenic businesses continue to grow.

此外，這項經驗凸顯了我們業務多元化模式的智慧。在第四季度，隨著電解槽和低溫業務的持續成長，我們預期新業務的收入將首次超過傳統業務的收入。

Finally, I'd like to just like to reflect on the conversation I had yesterday morning with a European customer, supplier and partner. He just toured our facilities and remind me that no one has built hydrogen infrastructure on the scale we have. No one has our product set, no one has technical talent, no one has our customer relationships and no one has our real life experiences. It remains our belief and his that as the market for hydrogen fuel cell grows, no one is in a better position than Plug to take advantage of this opportunity. This is just a bump on the road. Paul, Sanjay and I are now available for questions.

最後，我想回顧一下昨天早上我與一位歐洲客戶、供應商和合作夥伴的對話。他剛剛參觀了我們的設施並提醒我，沒有人建造過我們這樣規模的氫基礎設施。沒有人擁有我們的產品組合，沒有人擁有技術人才，沒有人擁有我們的客戶關係，也沒有人擁有我們的現實生活經驗。我們和他仍然相信，隨著氫燃料電池市場的成長，沒有人比 Plug 更能利用這個機會。這只是路上的一個坎坷。保羅、桑杰和我現在可以回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Colin Rusch with Oppenheimer.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自科林·魯施（Colin Rusch）與奧本海默（Oppenheimer）的對話。

I want to start off with the balance sheet. You've got a fair amount of restricted cash. You offered a fairly reasonable update in the letter on your process with potential funding sources. I guess the real question is around timing and how you see your ability to free up some of that restricted cash and start to bring on some of those closed one or more of those deals that you're talking about in the shareholder letter?

我想從資產負債表開始。你有相當數量的受限現金。您在信中對潛在資金來源的流程進行了相當合理的更新。我想真正的問題在於時間安排，以及您如何看待自己釋放部分受限現金並開始完成您在股東信中談論的一項或多項交易的能力？

Sure, Colin. I'm going to let Paul take that question.

當然，科林。我將讓保羅回答這個問題。

Colin, thanks for the question. We continue to pursue a number of initiatives. We've had many inbound expressions of interest with different terms, and we continue to work through what we think is the best and most prudent solution. It's not for lack of options. It's really just continue to be picky around which ones that we've had to act on, and we haven't felt the compulsion to act quickly. To be -- we're taking our time to be thoughtful about which choices that we have.

科林，謝謝你的提問。我們繼續採取一系列措施。我們收到了許多不同條款的入站意向書，我們將繼續研究我們認為最好、最謹慎的解決方案。這並不是因為缺乏選擇。實際上，我們只是繼續對我們必須採取行動的事情進行挑剔，而且我們還沒有感受到迅速採取行動的衝動。我們正在花時間思考我們有哪些選擇。

I'll tell you on the DOE process, many, many people will ask about that. That's -- we're progressing very well. We continue to have great effort and collaboration with them. And we expect that, that will get through the 100-page long form term sheet that they need to get through to submit for contingent approval here by the end of November. And we still expect there's a good chance we can announce that program by the end of the year. That will be very meaningful. And we continue to pursue a range of other options. And so I expect something in the near term.

我會告訴你能源部的流程，很多很多人會問這個。那就是——我們進展得很好。我們將繼續與他們做出巨大的努力和合作。我們預計，這將通過 100 頁的長條款清單，他們需要在 11 月底之前完成清單，以便在此提交臨時批准。我們仍然預計我們很有可能在今年年底之前宣布該計劃。這將是非常有意義的。我們將繼續尋求一系列其他選擇。所以我預計短期內會發生一些事情。

Okay. And then on the operations side, with the impact around the hydrogen availability, can you talk about the cadence of deployments for material handling and how that's impacting some of the equipment sales that you guys are working through for the balance of the year and into the early part of 2024?

好的。然後在營運方面，考慮到氫氣可用性的影響，您能否談談物料搬運的部署節奏以及這對你們今年剩餘時間和進入下半年正在努力的一些設備銷售的影響2024 年初？

Yes, so Colin, we had -- we left the quarter with 7 sites which we couldn't bring online, which would have represented well over $50 million in revenue because of we couldn't put more stress on the network. And so we expect that we will have a good quarter for material handling. I'm just going to caveat it by saying that first and foremost, we have to make sure, especially during this holiday season, during peak that our key customers have hydrogen.

是的，科林，我們在本季留下了 7 個無法上線的網站，這些網站的收入遠遠超過 5000 萬美元，因為我們無法對網路施加更多壓力。因此，我們預計物料搬運季度將表現良好。我想警告的是，首先也是最重要的是，我們必須確保，特別是在這個假期期間，在高峰期間，我們的主要客戶擁有氫氣。

And as I mentioned, we've done a really good job in moving hydrogen. Without our fleet of over 40 trucks, we would have never been able to do what we were able to do. So I -- in my opening comments, I said it was a timing issue. I think if the network continues to improve, it probably will happen this quarter. But I think there probably could be -- when I think about our material handling business, it will swing between up to about $50 million, I think, is possible.

正如我所提到的，我們在運輸氫氣方面做得非常好。如果沒有 40 多輛卡車組成的車隊，我們永遠無法完成我們能夠完成的任務。所以我在開場白中說這是一個時間問題。我認為如果網路繼續改善，這可能會在本季發生。但我認為，當我考慮我們的物料搬運業務時，我認為它可能會在大約 5000 萬美元之間波動。

That being said, and I think the letter highlighted this. Some of those customers that we've gone through this with have actually increased their number of system -- a number of material handling sites they want. We've added new customers, Tyson. We've added new customers, Ryder and others. So it's -- it has not -- it certainly has been a challenging time, but it's pretty remarkable how well we've done so far in keeping hydrogen available for our customers.

話雖如此，我認為這封信強調了這一點。我們經歷過的一些客戶實際上增加了他們的系統數量——他們想要的一些物料搬運站點。我們增加了新客戶，泰森。我們增加了新客戶，Ryder 等。所以，這確實是一個充滿挑戰的時期，但到目前為止，我們在為客戶提供氫氣方面做得非常出色。

Our next question comes from the line of Manav Gupta with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的 Manav Gupta。

So help us understand the path to positive gross margin here. I think that's the number one question we are getting. How do you get to positive gross margin and by when?

因此，請幫助我們了解實現正毛利率的途徑。我認為這是我們遇到的第一個問題。如何及何時實現正毛利率？

Sure. Paul, do you want to take that? And I may have some -- I may add on some items, but do you want to take it, explain how we get there?

當然。保羅，你想接受這個嗎？我可能有一些——我可能會添加一些項目，但是你想接受它，解釋一下我們如何到達那裡嗎？

Yes. Sure, Andy, and thanks for the question. I would tell you a couple of fundamental things. One, Andy mentioned this quarter, the revenue from these new platforms are going to be greater than our legacy business. Most of those platforms and really all of them are equipment platforms. And I don't know if you've seen our new facility up in Vista or Rochester, but we're poised as we start scaling all these new platforms up for substantial volume leverage.

是的。當然，安迪，謝謝你的提問。我想告訴你一些基本的事情。第一，安迪本季提到，這些新平台的收入將比我們的傳統業務更大。這些平台中的大多數，實際上全部都是設備平台。我不知道您是否見過我們在維斯塔或羅徹斯特的新設施，但我們已做好準備，開始擴大所有這些新平台的規模，以實現巨大的產量槓桿。

And so -- and if you look at sales in Q4 and on into -- and into next year, really, the bulk of the growth is coming from these equipment platforms. And we've shown historically with material handling as we scale that business, that every time we double the installed fleet, we've been able to reduce the cost by 25%, and you're going to see the same trends. As we get volume leverage, you get supply chain leverage, you drive greater automation. So equipment sales is really key and that's one thing you're going to see as we move past launching these new platforms and through the pilot programs and to really scaling them.

因此，如果你看看第四季和明年的銷售情況，實際上，大部分成長來自這些設備平台。從歷史上看，隨著業務規模的擴大，我們在物料搬運方面已經證明，每當我們將已安裝的機隊數量增加一倍時，我們就能將成本降低25%，並且您將看到相同的趨勢。當我們獲得銷售槓桿時，您就獲得了供應鏈槓桿，從而推動了更大的自動化。因此，設備銷售確實很關鍵，這是當我們推出這些新平台、通過試點計劃並真正擴展它們時，您會看到的一件事。

Second thing you'll see is on the fuel margin. You already see some abatement in the prices. We expect some additional abatement in Q4, but the real step function change in fuel happens as we turn on our own facilities. And so Georgia is coming online this quarter. Tennessee we'll be reinstating and turn that back up. And then we're looking to turn on the new facility in Louisiana towards the end of Q1.

您將看到的第二件事是燃油餘裕。您已經看到價格下降。我們預計第四季會出現一些額外的減排，但燃料的真正階躍函數變化發生在我們打開自己的設施時。因此，喬治亞州將於本季上線。田納西州我們將恢復並恢復它。然後我們希望在第一季末啟用路易斯安那州的新工廠。

And so those will be very accretive events as we start to turn those facilities up and start to be able to source a lot of that hydrogen from ourselves, which, in many cases, is at least 30% cheaper -- or I'm sorry, is 30% of the market cost that we're paying today. In some cases, only 10% when you factor in the PTC credit. So those are the most two massive effects that are going to have on margin in the near term. And we expect that to start to see that in Q4 and start to really ramp as we move through 2024. Andy, you have other comments you want to share?

因此，當我們開始啟動這些設施並開始能夠從我們自己那裡獲取大量氫氣時，這些將是非常增值的事件，在許多情況下，這至少便宜 30%——或者我很抱歉，是我們今天支付的市場成本的30%。在某些情況下，如果考慮 PTC 積分，則僅為 10%。因此，這是短期內對利潤率產生的最大的兩個影響。我們預計這種情況將在第四季開始出現，並在 2024 年開始真正成長。安迪，您還有其他意見想分享嗎？

No. I think you're right, Paul. I mean, I think the equation is really right. We have to deploy more equipment and we'll be deploying more in the fourth quarter. We have to get the plants up and operating, that helps a great deal. And look, we have a clear plan on service margins. And I think the best plan we've ever had. And I think all those factors will come into play.

不，我認為你是對的，保羅。我的意思是，我認為這個等式非常正確。我們必須部署更多設備，我們將在第四季度部署更多設備。我們必須讓工廠啟動並運行，這有很大幫助。看，我們對服務利潤有明確的計劃。我認為這是我們曾經制定過的最好的計劃。我認為所有這些因素都會發揮作用。

My quick follow-up here is we are waiting clarity on the PTC. When do you think we can get something? And what do you think would be reasonable at this point to assume some level of -- I mean, what do you think would be reasonably good outcome for you in the PTC guidance that does come out?

我在此快速跟進的是，我們正在等待 PTC 的澄清。你認為我們什麼時候可以得到一些東西？您認為目前在某種程度上假設什麼是合理的 - 我的意思是，您認為在確實發布的 PTC 指南中對您來說合理的良好結果是什麼？

So the administration has shared this week has been that they will have the PTC announcement out before year's end. I suspect that's probably about right. When I think about the PTC, we think that really the key item is how regionality is defined. And if regionality is defined to be the balancing authorities where there are 69 in the U.S., probably most of our future activities would go on in Texas.

因此，政府本週表示，他們將在年底前發布 PTC 公告。我懷疑這可能是對的。當我考慮 PTC 時，我們認為真正的關鍵是如何定義區域性。如果將地區性定義為美國有 69 個平衡機構，那麼我們未來的大部分活動可能都會在德克薩斯州進行。

If the balance -- if the regionality comes out to be the ISO regions, we've looked at that and have concluded that it's -- that would be -- that would work for Plug almost regardless of where they come out with additionality, we think you probably need 3 years. We also think that if you think about time matching, it's pretty clear that treasury has realized that hourly time matching doesn't work because direct market for that really doesn't exist.

如果平衡——如果區域性是 ISO 區域，我們已經研究過這一點並得出結論——這對 Plug 來說幾乎是有效的，無論它們在哪裡出現額外性，我們我想你可能需要3年。我們也認為，如果考慮時間匹配，很明顯財政部已經意識到每小時的時間匹配不起作用，因為直接市場確實不存在。

I think that's actually something that looks like that will be the final outcome. It won't be the perfect outcome. A broader regionality East West and ERCOT would be the, I think, best solution for the growth of the hydrogen industry. And we coincide -- and I think this is where I think a lot of people would miss. It really needs to be broad for the hydrogen hubs to work.

我認為這實際上看起來是最終的結果。這不會是完美的結果。我認為，更廣泛的區域性 East West 和 ERCOT 將是氫能產業發展的最佳解決方案。我們很吻合——我想這就是很多人會懷念的地方。氫中心的運作確實需要廣泛的範圍。

And certainly, I can tell you, I've spoken with high-level leadership at the DOE and they understand that. So I think Plug is going to be fine when the guidance comes out. I think the industry will be fine. I hope that it's done in a way that all regions of the United States are winners.

當然，我可以告訴你，我已經與能源部的高層領導交談過，他們理解這一點。所以我認為當指南出來時 Plug 會很好。我覺得這個行業會很好。我希望美國所有地區都能成為贏家。

Our next question comes from the line of Bill Peterson with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自比爾·彼得森與摩根大通的對話。

So I'd like to dig a little bit deeper into Colin's questions on the cash raise and shore up the balance sheet. So you talked about corporate debt solutions. Can you provide more color on what kind of options, what kind of facilities you're talking about here? On the DOE loan, you're hoping to announce something later this year, but it talks about conditional. What is the conditional on?

因此，我想更深入探討科林關於現金籌集和支撐資產負債表的問題。所以你談到了企業債務解決方案。您能否提供更多關於您在這裡談論的選項和設施類型的信息？關於能源部貸款，您希望在今年稍後宣布一些事情，但它談到的是有條件的。條件是什麼？

And then what -- when can the dollars actually flow? I guess, can you confirm that this is milestone-based? And then finally, I think for these project finance, I guess, of course, when could -- I guess when could these be solidified in order to shore up the position? Really just overall, how should we think about your ability to shore up your kind of cash position in the near term?

然後呢——美元什麼時候才能真正流通？我想，你能確認這是基於里程碑的嗎？最後，我認為對於這些專案融資，我想，當然，什麼時候可以——我想什麼時候可以鞏固這些專案以鞏固地位？總的來說，我們應該如何考慮您在短期內支撐您的現金部位的能力？

Paul, do you want to take that?

保羅，你想接受這個嗎？

Sure. There's a lot of questions in there, Bill, I'll do my best. First, on the DOE, one, it's a good news, bad news. The fact that they require very detailed long-form term sheet is actually -- although it takes time to work through is extremely helpful because the way the process works is they effectively put the package together and all of their diligent reports have been submitted for the final approval, which once it gets approved, you then have to go and actually put the agreements in place.

當然。那裡有很多問題，比爾，我會盡力而為。首先，對能源部來說，這是一個好消息，也是一個壞消息。事實上，他們需要非常詳細的長期條款清單，儘管需要時間來完成，但實際上是非常有幫助的，因為該過程的工作方式是他們有效地將一攬子計劃放在一起，並且所有勤奮的報告都已提交給最終批准，一旦獲得批准，您就必須去實際落實協議。

But because it's 100 pages of long-form term sheets, and in fact, they've already kind of worked through all those key things. So that should be a much faster process. The framework that we're working on with them is a $1.5 billion platform that would fund our green plants and would fund from construction phase onwards. So -- and it could be as upwards as 80% -- $0.80 on the dollar. That's the framework that we're working on, and we're working very diligently to get that in place.

但因為這是 100 頁的長篇投資意向書，事實上，他們已經完成了所有這些關鍵的事情。所以這應該是一個更快的過程。我們正在與他們合作的框架是一個價值 15 億美元的平台，將為我們的綠色工廠提供資金，並從建設階段開始提供資金。因此，1 美元的匯率可能高達 80% - 0.80 美元。這就是我們正在研究的框架，我們正在非常努力地將其落實到位。

In addition to that, we've had some expressions of offers for ABL like facilities. We've had some expressions of offers for restricted cash advanced facilities like we used to have with Generate. So there are -- and there's been some -- a number of parties that have expressed interest for project equity on some of our initial plans. So we have a range -- and there's been a number of other ones in different forms. And so we have a range of solutions that we continue to work through, and we just are wrestling through what we think is the best choices and the best options, given the dynamics and what we're trying to accomplish here.

除此之外，我們也收到了一些類似 ABL 設施的報價。我們已經收到了一些關於限制性現金預付款設施的報價，就像我們以前對「Generate」所做的那樣。因此，有一些各方對我們的一些初步計劃的專案股權表示了興趣。所以我們有一個範圍——而且還有許多其他不同形式的範圍。因此，我們有一系列的解決方案正在繼續努力，考慮到動態和我們在這裡想要完成的目標，我們只是在努力尋找我們認為最好的選擇和最好的選擇。

So I think the DOE could be even as early as late as end of Q1 potentially. More likely early Q2, it starts funding and it could actually go back and back lever some of the existing plants like Texas and maybe even New York. And I think some of these other facilities is what we probably levered into is to complement that structure for general working capital and other project capital that we would be advancing on. So hopefully, that helps, Bill.

因此，我認為能源部甚至可能最早、最晚在第一季末。更有可能的是，第二季初，它開始融資，並且實際上可能會反覆利用德克薩斯州甚至紐約等一些現有工廠。我認為我們可能利用的其他一些設施是為了補充我們將要推進的一般營運資金和其他專案資本的結構。希望這會有所幫助，比爾。

Yes. No, that's a good additional context. Just how to think about the fourth quarter, you -- at the time of the symposium, you took down your numbers through the bottom end. But presumably, the headwinds you talked about with hydrogen is impacting your ability to provide fuel cell systems for the fourth quarter.

是的。不，這是一個很好的附加背景。想想第四季度，你——在研討會上，你從底部記下了你的數字。但據推測，您談到的氫氣方面的不利因素正在影響您在第四季度提供燃料電池系統的能力。

So I guess, walk us through, if you could, revenue assumptions maybe by product type and how we should think about how the fourth quarter could evolve, given all the puts and takes you talked about with all the issues in hydrogen?

所以我想，如果可以的話，請帶我們了解一下可能按產品類型劃分的收入假設，以及考慮到您談到的所有氫氣問題，我們應該如何考慮第四季度的發展？

I'll take that one, Bill, because we spent a lot of time thinking about this. So I think that if you think about as a base of $1.2 billion, where are the risks in the $1.2 billion for the year? Because of hydrogen, -- and I think I mentioned earlier in this call, we think there's a risk of circa $50 million in our traditional business. And we also -- when we look at our cryogenics business, which has really been one of the strength this year, and there's some timing on some deals where we think $50 million could flash and go into the first quarter instead of the fourth quarter, they're really the two items we're looking at and really watching closely.

我會接受那個，比爾，因為我們花了很多時間思考這個問題。所以我認為，如果以 12 億美元為基數，那麼今年 12 億美元的風險在哪裡？由於氫氣，我想我之前在這次電話會議中提到過，我們認為我們的傳統業務有大約 5000 萬美元的風險。我們也——當我們審視我們的低溫業務時，這確實是今年的優勢之一，而且在一些交易中，我們認為 5000 萬美元可能會閃現並進入第一季而不是第四季度，它們確實是我們正在關注並密切關注的兩個項目。

I think we're feeling good about our electrolyzer business. We feel good about the revenue, all other revenues in our trailer business, our other activities in our cryo business, but that's really kind of the breakdown we see. So if you think about that, we think 60% of the business when I outlined those numbers are for electrolyzers, for cryogenic equipment and 40% is our traditional material handling business. So that's kind of the give and take from $1.1 billion to $1.2 billion, Bill. Does that answer your question?

我認為我們對電解槽業務感覺良好。我們對收入、拖車業務的所有其他收入、低溫業務的其他活動感到滿意，但這確實是我們看到的細分。因此，如果你考慮一下，當我概述這些數字時，我們認為 60% 的業務是電解槽、低溫設備，40% 是我們傳統的物料搬運業務。這就是從 11 億美元到 12 億美元的付出與索取，比爾。這是否回答你的問題？

Yes. No, that kind of describes some of the risks associated with the rest of the year. It sounds like electrolyzer is still -- you feel good about that if I can paraphrase.

是的。不，這描述了與今年剩餘時間相關的一些風險。聽起來電解槽還是靜止的——如果我能解釋一下的話，你會感覺很好。

Yes, yes. I mean, look, I feel really good about material handling. I just got to make sure that we feel real good about electrolyzers. We feel really good about some of the expansion activities with our cryogenic trailers. We have this liquid refueler, which is for buses and others. It's really sold, and we can't make enough of them. So we really do feel good about those things. And I have the parts built for material handling. It's just a question of making sure that we can bring them online in a way that meets our customers' needs.

是的是的。我的意思是，看，我對物料搬運感覺非常好。我只是要確保我們對電解槽感覺良好。我們對我們的低溫拖車的一些擴張活動感到非常滿意。我們有這款液體加油機，適用於巴士和其他車輛。真的賣完了，我們還不夠。所以我們確實對這些事情感覺很好。我有專為物料搬運而製造的零件。這只是一個確保我們能夠以滿足客戶需求的方式將它們上線的問題。

Our next question comes from the line of Chris Dendrinos with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場部門的 Chris Dendrinos。

I guess I just wanted to discuss the hydrogen availability situation. Obviously, the force majeure events are -- they've been recurring kind of throughout the year. When you think about that business and sort of your suppliers, is there anything you can do, I guess, more that could be done to ensure stable supply? Is there like the ability to have some backup suppliers or anything like that, that you can speak to?

我想我只是想討論氫氣的可用性。顯然，不可抗力事件全年不斷發生。當您考慮該業務和您的供應商時，我想您可以做些什麼來確保穩定的供應？是否有能力擁有一些備用供應商或類似的東西，您可以與之交談？

So Chris, I think what we're doing, I mentioned three items. There isn't -- there is an additional hydrogen available. I was talking to someone today who told me they couldn't get any hydrogen. When I -- we look at it though, our plants coming online, help a great deal. Having Tennessee and Georgia that provides us 25 tons of hydrogen. Bring St. Gabriel up in the second quarter brings another 15 tons of hydrogen, that's 40 tons.

克里斯，我認為我們正在做的事情，我提到了三件事。沒有——還有額外的氫氣可用。今天我和一個人聊天，他告訴我他們無法獲得任何氫氣。當我——我們看到它時，我們的工廠上線，有很大幫助。田納西州和喬治亞州為我們提供了 25 噸氫氣。第二季度，聖加布里埃爾將再生產 15 噸氫氣，即 40 噸。

I met with one of the major -- one of the other major hydrogen suppliers in this industry, the President of their Americans operations on Tuesday. We sat down and they're bringing online 30 tons by putting SMRs in to replace some waste stream stock that hasn't been coming. So I do see that by the end of January, there is additional 55 tons. And just to give you a feel, 55 tons is probably approximately another 20%, 25% of hydrogen availability.

週二，我會見了該行業的主要氫供應商之一、其美國業務的總裁。我們坐下來，他們透過放入 SMR 來替換一些尚未到來的廢物流庫存，從而使 30 噸的產量上線。所以我確實看到到 1 月底，新增了 55 噸。讓您感受一下，55 噸可能大約是氫氣可用量的 20%、25%。

Now we're going to use more hydrogen next year. We are projecting that our hydrogen needs and demands will grow by 40 tons by year's end. And that's why Texas is so important to us to bring that online. And that will -- we're working through that one, but that one is really, really will be critical for the second half of next year to make sure that by the late fourth quarter that's able to produce to support the customers. So the good news, Chris, is that this is not going to be an issue on January 1. We just got to work through the final stages here.

現在我們明年將使用更多的氫氣。我們預計到年底我們的氫氣需求將增加 40 噸。這就是為什麼德克薩斯州對於我們將其上線如此重要。我們正在解決這個問題，但這對於明年下半年來說確實非常重要，以確保到第四季末能夠生產出支援客戶。克里斯，好消息是，這在 1 月 1 日不會成為問題。我們只需完成最後階段的工作。

Got it. Okay. Understood. And I guess maybe just as a follow-up, maybe on a slightly different topic here. It's just the equipment sales margin in the quarter, it looks like it was negative. Can you just walk us through the dynamics of what's going on there? It sounded like it might have been mix related. But I guess, any just additional color on what's happening in that segment?

知道了。好的。明白了。我想也許只是作為後續行動，也許這裡的主題略有不同。只是本季的設備銷售利潤率，看起來是負值。您能否向我們介紹那裡正在發生的動態？聽起來可能與混音有關。但我想，對於該領域正在發生的事情還有什麼額外的看法嗎？

Paul, do you want to take that one?

保羅，你想拿那個嗎？

Sure. So Andy mentioned about some of the programs that pushed, scale matters for us. When you think about these manufacturing facilities we have and driving volume leverage, that's important. So that's part of the driver. Other part of the driver is some of the costs associated with launching these new programs, especially some of the early pilot programs. I always say it's hard to make money when you build one of something. But as we start scaling this up to hundreds and in thousands, you really start to drive not just volume leverage but supply chain leverage and you can drive improvements in your manufacturing processes. And so those were really the key drivers this quarter, and we certainly expect that to be meaningfully better in Q4, given the ramp of these equipment sales. And then you'll see that ramp even more so in 2024.

當然。安迪提到了一些推動規模對我們來說很重要的項目。當您想到我們擁有的這些製造設施並推動產量槓桿時，這一點很重要。這就是驅動程式的一部分。驅動因素的其他部分是與啟動這些新項目相關的一些成本，尤其是一些早期的試點項目。我總是說，當你建造一件東西時，很難賺錢。但當我們開始將其規模擴大到數百甚至數千時，您真正開始推動的不僅是數量槓桿，還有供應鏈槓桿，並且您可以推動製造流程的改進。因此，這些確實是本季的關鍵驅動因素，考慮到這些設備銷售的成長，我們當然預期第四季的情況會明顯改善。到 2024 年，您會看到這種增長更加明顯。

Paul, I think it'd be fair to say also that $50 million material handling revenue would have flipped it the other way.

保羅，我認為可以公平地說，5,000 萬美元的物料搬運收入也會使情況發生相反的變化。

It certainly would have been super helpful in moving that right direction, Andy, yes.

這對於朝著正確的方向前進肯定會非常有幫助，安迪，是的。

Our next question comes from the line of Jordan Levy with Truist Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jordan Levy 與 Truist Securities 的對話。

Maybe just a high-level kind of strategic sort of question here. If we kind of look out to 2024 and recognizing you're starting to getting some of your own volumes online. But some of these other issues in the network persist on the supply side. I'm just curious how you think about sort of balancing growth in the materials handling side versus timing of your own plants ramping and whether it makes sense to throttle materials handling down a bit as you kind of bring on your own supply and that sort of thing?

也許這只是一個高層次的策略問題。如果我們展望 2024 年並認識到您將開始在網路上獲得一些自己的書籍。但網路中的一些其他問題在供應方面仍然存在。我只是好奇你如何考慮平衡材料處理方面的增長與你自己工廠的產能增長的時間，以及當你帶來自己的供應時，稍微減少材料處理是否有意義？事？

Jordan, thank you for the question. And I think that is a good question. As I mentioned, we feel that we'll be in a much better position come January 1. And one of the reasons I've gone around and spoke to leadership with other big suppliers in the industry, and we've talked about making sure there's -- talked about what their plans are, which are public. So there's nothing that's being hidden here.

喬丹，謝謝你的提問。我認為這是一個很好的問題。正如我所提到的，我們認為 1 月 1 日到來時我們將處於更好的位置。我四處走訪並與業內其他大型供應商的領導層進行交談的原因之一是，我們討論了確保談論了他們的計劃，這些計劃是公開的。所以這裡沒有隱藏任何東西。

We feel that we can continue to grow and expand that business. And that's -- I think I did some math for you, which combination of St. Gabriel, combination of our 25-ton coming back online, that's 40 tons. I talked about an additional 30 tons coming online from another supplier. I do know that other folks are beginning to look at putting some hydrogen in the market. For us, it really needs to be liquid. But we're really -- we really don't see the need, Jordan, to throttle back.

我們認為我們可以繼續發展和擴大該業務。那就是——我想我為你做了一些數學計算，聖加布里埃爾的組合，我們重新上線的 25 噸的組合，那就是 40 噸。我談到另一家供應商將額外提供 30 噸線上產品。我確實知道其他人開始考慮將一些氫氣投放到市場上。對我們來說，它確實需要是液體。但我們真的——喬丹，我們真的不認為有必要節流。

And then maybe just a follow-up on the stationary side of the business. I know these are kind of bulkier shipments. But it seems like from the shareholder letter, you've made some good traction there going into the fourth quarter. Just an update there, if we could.

然後也許只是固定業務方面的後續行動。我知道這些貨物體積較大。但從股東信來看，您在進入第四季時已經取得了一些良好的進展。如果可以的話，只是更新一下。

Yes. So we will be shipping products -- first, let me -- and I don't know it because it was at the symposium actually it was one of the first days the first product that we deployed was fully operational and working. That product is in many ways so much more challenging than our material handling products, but so much more simpler once you get it going. I say it's more challenging because it's a complicated system. I mean 1-megawatt of power, how to manage all that, hydrogen and water. All those items are really, really critical.

是的。因此，我們將交付產品——首先，讓我——我不知道，因為那是在研討會上，實際上這是我們部署的第一個產品全面投入運行的第一天。該產品在許多方面都比我們的物料搬運產品更具挑戰性，但一旦使用就會簡單得多。我說它更具挑戰性，因為它是一個複雜的系統。我的意思是 1 兆瓦的電力，如何管理所有這些，氫氣和水。所有這些項目都非常非常關鍵。

The fact it runs at almost constant power, the fact that you're not moving it around. The product has worked remarkably well the first deployments. To the point, Jordan, about 2 weeks ago, I wasn't hearing anything about the performance of the product when it first went in the field. But in my 40 years, working engineering products it's incredibly unusual.

事實上它幾乎以恆定的功率運行，事實上你不需要移動它。該產品在第一次部署時效果非常好。就這一點而言，喬丹，大約兩週前，當該產品首次投入使用時，我沒有聽到任何有關該產品性能的消息。但在我 40 年的工作經驗中，從事工程產品工作是非常不尋常的。

So I picked up the phone and called the customer and asked them how it was going. It's been working remarkably well. So we're really upbeat about that product. We'll be doing good deal deployments. A lot of the extra hydrogen for next year will be associated with that product. So we're really pleased. It's probably one of the more challenging, but one of the best product launches I've ever seen in my career.

於是我拿起電話給客戶打電話，詢問他們進展如何。它運作得非常好。所以我們對產品非常樂觀。我們將進行大量部署。明年的大量額外氫氣將與該產品相關。所以我們真的很高興。這可能是最具挑戰性的產品發布之一，但卻是我職業生涯中見過的最好的產品發布之一。

Our next question comes from the line of George Gianarikas with Canaccord Genuity.

我們的下一個問題來自 Canaccord Genuity 的 George Gianarikas。

I wanted to ask about an early glimpse if you can, and someone may have alluded to this earlier to 2024. In '25, just sort of gross margin high level, particularly in light of the fact that you have the updates that you've made to your green hydrogen generation.

我想問一下您是否可以提前了解一下，有人可能已經在 2024 年早些時候提到過這一點。在 25 年，毛利率處於高水平，特別是考慮到您已經更新了這一事實專為您的綠氫發電而設計。

Paul, do you want to take that question?

保羅，你想回答這個問題嗎？

Yes. We -- I guess we have our January business update scheduled most likely towards the end of January, where we'll give, as we always do every year, more specific numbers for 2024 as we kind of center in around or finalize our plans and forecast. But I guess what I would tell you is, directionally, we absolutely expect it to go north. And when you think about the equipment programs and those starting to scale up, and you think about the fuel sites and how meaningful impactful those are, I think, next year -- I mean, I think it not only will be positive, I think it could be in the low double digits directionally and then scale up from there.

是的。我們——我想我們最有可能在 1 月底安排 1 月份的業務更新，我們將像往常一樣，在 2024 年提供更具體的數字，因為我們會圍繞或最終確定我們的計劃，預報。但我想我要告訴你的是，從方向上看，我們絕對希望它向北移動。當你想到設備項目和那些開始擴大規模的項目，想到燃料站點以及這些項目的影響力有多大時，我認為，明年——我的意思是，我認為這不僅是積極的，我認為它可能會定向處於低兩位數，然後從那裡向上擴展。

And I think there'll be another big step function in 2025 because we're turning on Texas and targeted to turn on New York. I mean that's 115 tons per day of capacity between those 2 facilities. So that's a substantially meaningful revenue and margin accretion of those programs, given those forecasts and what we're planning to do and turn those on. So I think, directionally, that's kind of how it will fly.

我認為 2025 年將會有另一個重大舉措，因為我們的目標是德州，目標是紐約。我的意思是，這兩個設施每天的產能為 115 噸。因此，考慮到這些預測以及我們計劃採取的行動和啟動這些計劃，這些計劃的收入和利潤成長具有重大意義。所以我認為，從方向上來說，這就是它的飛行方式。

And as a follow-up, just a question. I know we're waiting for Washington to make a final implementation as to how it used PTC? And so I'm curious if you can help us compartmentalize based on the different outcomes, how do those impact the numbers? In other words, you've given some long-term guidance. And when you think about outcome x in Washington means this to our forecast, outcome y means that, like how can we think about your long-term forecast when we hear the final outcome from Washington?

作為後續行動，只是一個問題。我知道我們正在等待華盛頓就如何使用 PTC 做出最終實施？因此，我很好奇您是否可以幫助我們根據不同的結果進行劃分，這些對數字有何影響？換句話說，您已經給了一些長期指導。當你考慮華盛頓的結果 x 意味著我們的預測時，結果 y 意味著，就像當我們聽到華盛頓的最終結果時，我們如何考慮你的長期預測？

That's a good question, George. And we've always taken a very, very conservative view of the outcome. We built the models and our plans not based on the PTC being available. We know that the PTC will unlock additional opportunities. But -- and further guidance on other elements of the IRA. So I would just say that if you think about it, it probably has a minimum impact whatever gets said for 2024. Just even though people are waiting it still takes time to get to FID, especially on electrolyzers. I would think that our forecast may be different in the '25-'26 time frame with a PTC outcome that, I'll call it, middle of the road. That's how I would think about it.

這是個好問題，喬治。我們對結果一直持非常非常保守的看法。我們建立模型和計劃並不是基於可用的 PTC。我們知道 PTC 將釋放更多機會。但是——以及對 IRA 其他要素的進一步指導。因此，我只想說，如果你考慮一下，它對 2024 年的影響可能很小。儘管人們在等待，但實現 FID 仍然需要時間，尤其是在電解槽方面。我認為我們的預測在 25-26 年時間範圍內可能會有所不同，PTC 的結果我稱之為中間路線。我就是這麼想的。

Sanjay, I know you've been thinking about this, too, but that's kind of my view. But since you're deeply involved in the electrolyzer sales funnel as well as sale of hydrogen, do you have any additional comments?

Sanjay，我知道你也一直在考慮這個問題，但這就是我的觀點。但由於您深入參與電解槽銷售管道以及氫氣銷售，您還有什麼其他意見嗎？

No. I think, Andy, you sort of summarized it pretty well. But the only thing I might add here is, I think we are obviously been working on multiple large-scale electrolyzer opportunity here in the U.S. And as the guidance becomes clear and as we hear more about that, I think some of this opportunity that we've been working on start to unlock. And even on the electrolyzer side, even before some of this PTC guidance we have talked about working on 3 mega deals. We've already announced 100-megawatt in Europe, we've already announced another 280-megawatt in Europe, and we have talked about being a preferred supplier for a 550-megawatt opportunity in Australia.

不，我認為，安迪，你總結得很好。但我在這裡唯一要補充的是，我認為我們顯然一直在美國研究多個大型電解槽的機會，隨著指導方針變得清晰，並且當我們聽到更多相關信息時，我認為我們的一些機會一直努力開始解鎖。即使在電解槽方面，甚至在 PTC 的一些指南之前，我們就已經討論過開展 3 筆大型交易。我們已經宣佈在歐洲建造 100 兆瓦，我們已經宣佈在歐洲建造 280 兆瓦，並且我們已經討論過成為澳洲 550 兆瓦機會的首選供應商。

With this PTC, we certainly see meaningful growth for electrolyzer business, as you said, Andy, especially in 2025 and 2026 time frame, but there will be a very meaningful growth as well in 2024, given the mix of the business, diversity of the market and then existing backlog.

有了這個PTC，我們當然會看到電解槽業務的有意義的增長，正如你所說的，Andy，特別是在2025 年和2026 年的時間範圍內，但考慮到業務的組合、業務的多樣化性，2024 年也將出現非常有意義的成長。市場，然後是現有的積壓。

I mean there are more products that need hydrogen coming online. There are folks who are going to want green hydrogen to meet their corporate goals, regardless of the status of the PTC. So I think the PTC middle of the road decision will be really beneficial for Plug.

我的意思是有更多需要氫氣的產品上線。無論 PTC 的狀況如何，有些人都希望透過綠氫來實現他們的企業目標。因此，我認為 PTC 的中間決策對 Plug 來說確實有利。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is from Eric Stine with Craig-Hallum.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Eric Stine 和 Craig-Hallum。

So I've been jumping around on calls today, so I hope that I don't ask something that's already been asked. I did hear the end of the last one. I'll just stick with the IRA just for a second. Hearing some talk of regionality in terms of where power needs to be sourced from, just curious if you could expand on that a little bit? And what would you see that doing for your business?

所以我今天一直在忙著打電話，所以我希望我不要問一些已經被問過的事情。我確實聽到了最後一首的結尾。我暫時只支持愛爾蘭共和軍。聽到一些關於需要從哪裡獲取電力的區域性的討論，只是好奇您是否可以對此進行一些擴展？您認為這會對您的業務產生什麼影響？

Yes. So -- and I think, Eric, if regionality is really tight at the balancing authorities and there's 69 balancing authorities, I think it drives most of the business activity into ERCOT. I don't think it's going to end up there. When we think about middle-of-the-road solution that would work for Plug and we think work for most people in the industry, that would be -- the ISO regions would we think work. There's REC markets which work there. You can -- the regions are big enough that the additionality issue should be much more minor.

是的。所以，我認為，Eric，如果平衡機構的區域性確實很嚴格並且有 69 個平衡機構，我認為這會將大部分業務活動推向 ERCOT。我不認為事情會就此結束。當我們考慮適用於 Plug 的中間解決方案並且我們認為適用於業內大多數人時，我們認為 ISO 區域會適用。那裡有 REC 市場。你可以——這些地區夠大，額外性問題應該要小得多。

Ultimately, you could phase in time matching and it probably would work, probably what's best for the nation and what's probably best for the U.S. leadership in hydrogen, it would be having just 3 regions. That would also make sure that most of the hydrogen hubs could be successful. That's -- I think from a Plug perspective, it probably will end up where we're operating more and probably -- quite honestly, probably many of our customers.

最終，你可以分階段進行時間匹配，它可能會起作用，這可能對國家最好，也可能對美國在氫能領域的領導地位最好，它只會有 3 個地區。這也將確保大多數氫中心能夠取得成功。那是 - 我認為從插頭的角度來看，它可能最終會成為我們更多運營的地方，並且可能 - 老實說，可能是我們的許多客戶。

I think from a nationwide rollout perspective, more regions -- many regions is not helpful. So the quicker the region, the quicker the deployments will happen, the better it will be for our business. But if it's the ISO regions, we'll be in good shape.

我認為從全國推廣的角度來看，更多地區——很多地區是沒有幫助的。因此，區域越快，部署就越快，對我們的業務就越好。但如果是 ISO 地區，我們就會處於良好狀態。

Okay. That's helpful color. I guess we'll stay tuned on that. And then maybe -- so it sounds like you did for 2023 provide a little color around, I think, the previous outlook had been $1.2 billion. And if there is some $50 million or so variability in that number, I'm curious if you discussed any of the out-year targets? I mean I know '24 in the past, you'd had a $2 billion-plus revenue target. At the symposium, you had '27, you had 2030. So just curious, I mean, are you -- did you address that? Are you making any changes? Or is that something that's more for the January update?

好的。這是有用的顏色。我想我們會繼續關注這一點。然後也許 - 聽起來你為 2023 年提供了一些色彩，我認為之前的前景是 12 億美元。如果這個數字有 5000 萬美元左右的變化，我很好奇您是否討論過任何年度目標？我的意思是，我知道 24 年前，你們的收入目標是 20 億美元以上。在研討會上，你有 27 年，你有 2030 年。所以我很好奇，我的意思是，你——你提到過這個問題嗎？你正在做任何改變嗎？或者說這是一月份更新的更多內容？

Paul explained, Eric, the people it was the January update call. We did not make any changes.

保羅解釋說，埃里克，人們這是一月份的更新電話會議。我們沒有做任何改變。

Didn't make changes. Okay.

沒有做出改變。好的。

Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Percoco with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的安德魯·佩科科（Andrew Percoco）。

I did want to just come back to the balance sheet and financing line of questioning because I do think it's important here. So in the quarter, it looks like you burned $400 million of free cash flow, which leaves you with about $550 million of unrestricted cash and available-for-sale securities on the balance sheet.

我確實想回到資產負債表和融資問題上來，因為我確實認為這很重要。因此，在本季度，您似乎消耗了 4 億美元的自由現金流，這使得您的資產負債表上留下了約 5.5 億美元的不受限制的現金和可供出售的證券。

And Paul, I know you laid out DOE timing late this year, but it sounds like that project milestone based, and you also announced the Fortescue potential financing at the project level, but it still sounds like that's early stages. So it's leading me to think that you'll probably need to do something at the parent level to manage working capital within the next few weeks. One, is that correct? Two, are you still confident that you can do it with debt? Is there a potential need for a convert or equity here? And three, can you just give us a sense for size in terms of what you'll need to manage working capital and the profitability drag over the next few quarters?

保羅，我知道你在今年稍後制定了能源部的時間表，但這聽起來像是基於該專案的里程碑，而且你也宣布了Fortescue 在專案層面的潛在融資，但聽起來仍然處於早期階段。因此，這讓我認為，在接下來的幾週內，您可能需要在母公司層面採取一些措施來管理營運資金。一、這樣說對嗎？二、你還有信心借債能做到嗎？這裡是否存在轉換或股權的潛在需求？第三，您能否讓我們了解一下管理營運資金所需的規模以及未來幾季獲利能力的拖累？

Paul, do you want to take that one?

保羅，你想拿那個嗎？

Sure. So a couple of things. Fortunately, we're kind of in this period where we've spent largely what we need to for Georgia to turn that on. We've also -- the balance for that's left for the Louisiana plant is not in context, is not very big. So -- and we're -- Texas is really kind of more middle of the year and on into the back of the year when the big chunks of money gets spent.

當然。有幾件事。幸運的是，我們正處於這個時期，我們已經花費了喬治亞州啟動這項功能所需的大部分資金。我們也——留給路易斯安那工廠的餘額並不在上下文中，也不是很大。所以——我們——德克薩斯州實際上是在年中和年底，那時大量的資金被花掉了。

So I think we have a little bit of latitude on CapEx this quarter, next quarter in that regard. And so -- and then on top of that, given the scale of sales that we have this quarter, that obviously, as we convert that into cash, that helps. And then thirdly, we're laser-focused on reducing our inventory levels. We've built that up substantially to kind of help launch these broad platforms, but there's a substantial amount of capacity there that we can tap into that we'll see.

因此，我認為我們在本季和下季的資本支出方面有一點自由度。因此，最重要的是，考慮到我們本季的銷售規模，顯然，當我們將其轉化為現金時，這會有所幫助。第三，我們專注於降低庫存水準。我們已經建立了這一點，以幫助啟動這些廣泛的平台，但是我們可以利用其中的大量容量，我們將看到。

You'll start to see some of those benefits happen in Q4 and on into Q1 as we start leveraging that liquidity pool. So -- but you're right. I look at it as fungible, right, to fund our plans, and we've talked about what our focus is. And we're certainly focused on a range of solutions and some of the more near-term ones could include things like the ABL or restricted cash advance facility like we had with Generate before or some of those other structures.

當我們開始利用流動性池時，您將開始看到其中一些好處在第四季和第一季發生。所以——但你是對的。我認為它是可以替代的，對吧，為我們的計劃提供資金，我們已經討論了我們的重點是什麼。當然，我們專注於一系列解決方案，其中一些近期解決方案可能包括 ABL 或限制性現金預支設施，就像我們之前在「Generate」或其他一些結構中所採用的那樣。

But I think we're in a good position given the positive effect of that working capital between receivable conversions and inventory as well as that low period of CapEx that allows us to be a little bit more thoughtful as we move through this quarter and into next quarter about what we do and when we do it and picking the best solutions for Plug. Hopefully, that helps, Andrew.

但我認為，考慮到應收帳款轉換和庫存之間的營運資本以及資本支出的低時期的積極影響，我們處於有利的位置，這使我們在本季度和下一季時能夠更加深思熟慮。關於我們做什麼、何時做以及為Plug 選擇最佳解決方案的季度。希望有幫助，安德魯。

Yes, it is helpful. And maybe as a follow-up question, just related to your electrolyzer business. I think you guys have said over a 2-gigawatt backlog. Can you maybe just help us think about how many of those projects have reached FID? Just trying to get a sense of how we should underwrite that 2 gigawatts we've seen, obviously, across wind, solar, battery storage, some issues as it relates to financing and supply chain. I'm sure it's the same for hydrogen. So I'm just wondering how many of these projects have reached FID at this point?

是的，這很有幫助。也許作為一個後續問題，與您的電解槽業務有關。我想你們已經說過 2 吉瓦的積壓了。您能否幫我們想想其中有多少項目已經達到最終投資決定？只是想了解我們應該如何承保我們所看到的 2 吉瓦電力，顯然，涉及風能、太陽能、電池儲存以及與融資和供應鏈相關的一些問題。我確信氫也是如此。所以我只是想知道目前有多少項目已達到最終投資決定？

Sanjay, do you want to take that one?

桑傑，你想買那個嗎？

Yes, happy to do that, Andy. So Andrew, it's a very good question. So let me give you some context on that, right? In that backlog, we have a lot of 5-megawatt system, right? And these are for a lot of different customers. So they obviously have all gone to FID and that represents at least about 30 of those 5-megawatt system. Second, we talked about a big project with a customer in Europe that's already gone through FID, and that's 100-plus megawatt opportunity. And this preferred supplier deal that we've talked about, that project is expected to go to FID before the year is over.

是的，很高興這樣做，安迪。安德魯，這是一個非常好的問題。那麼讓我給你一些背景訊息，對吧？在那個積壓訂單中，我們有許多 5 兆瓦的系統，對吧？這些是針對很多不同的客戶的。因此，它們顯然都已進入 FID，這代表了這些 5 兆瓦系統中至少約 30 個。其次，我們與歐洲客戶討論了一個大項目，該項目已經通過了 FID，這是 100 多兆瓦的機會。我們討論過的這個首選供應商交易，該項目預計將在今年年底前提交 FID。

Then we have another project that is actually looking for an offtake that is for the sustainable aviation fuel expected to go to FID sometime next year, right? So keep in mind though, the way the revenue works for us in our electrolyzer business is we have a standard stack sale, that's a direct sale, right? Then we have 5-megawatt product system, that's a direct sale. And with the project business, we end up doing it on a percent of completion basis, which actually really builds that base of business for us as you start to think about Q4, as you start to think about '24 and also 2025. And there are some other pretty substantial projects here, Andrew, that were actually -- that we have been working on for 6 to 9 months.

然後我們還有另一個項目，實際上正在尋找可持續航空燃料的承購權，預計明年某個時候將進入最終投資決定，對嗎？因此請記住，我們電解槽業務的收入方式是我們有標準的堆疊銷售，即直接銷售，對嗎？然後我們有5兆瓦的產品體系，就是直銷。對於專案業務，我們最終以完成百分比為基礎進行，這實際上為我們建立了業務基礎，當你開始考慮第四季度，當你開始考慮 24 年和 2025 年時。安德魯，還有其他一些相當重要的項目，實際上我們已經工作了6 到9 個月。

I mean we have funding in place and some of these projects are really looking for some clarity from the guidance standpoint. And we do expect that look by either by the end of this year or early next year, you will start to actually see some of this project also move ahead and becomes a pretty meaningful contributor to revenue. Again, these are mega projects that will be multiyear and really start to build that base of business.

我的意思是，我們已經到位了資金，其中一些項目確實正在從指導的角度尋求一些清晰度。我們確實預計，到今年年底或明年初，您將開始真正看到該專案的一些內容也取得進展，並成為對收入非常有意義的貢獻者。同樣，這些都是大型項目，將持續多年，並真正開始建立業務基礎。

And one other thing that I think is worthwhile highlighting here as well is both on our product side as well as on our project side of the business in all the new bookings as Andy and Paul alluded to, we've been very focused on cost down, margin expansion, and that's the trend. It's not just the top line. We will also start to see that margin progression as you go into '24 as well as into 2025, and that's how we're looking to plan all those things.

我認為這裡值得強調的另一件事是在我們的產品方面以及我們在所有新預訂中的業務項目方面，正如安迪和保羅提到的，我們一直非常注重降低成本，利潤率擴張，這就是趨勢。這不僅僅是頂線。隨著進入 24 年以及 2025 年，我們也將開始看到利潤率的成長，這就是我們計劃所有這些事情的方式。

Great. I'll take the rest offline.

偉大的。我會把剩下的部分離線。

Our next question comes from Ameet Thakkar with BMO Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 Ameet Thakkar。

I just wanted to follow up, Paul, I guess I'm not as familiar with the restricted cash facility you had before. One, like for any of the $1.15 billion restricted cash you have right now kind of basically work its way into unrestricted bucket? And then how does that facility work? And I've got one follow-up.

我只是想跟進，保羅，我想我對你以前擁有的限制性現金設施不太熟悉。一，就像你現在擁有的 11.5 億美元受限現金中的任何一個基本上都進入了不受限制的桶中一樣？那麼這個設施是如何運作的呢？我還有一個後續行動。

Andy, I assume you want me to take that.

安迪，我想你希望我接受這個。

Yes.

是的。

So as we've done in the 10 years I've been here, probably $2 billion worth of sale-leaseback transactions to monetize tax credits on our -- on some of our programs with some of our customers. Some of our customers like to own the assets, so like a CapEx model and buy. Some like to access our solutions and effectively lease it from us. And so what we do is we package it and sell it to a bank. And in those cases, the best place to monetize those credits is the most efficient place as in the traditional bank market like a Wells Fargo or those kind of institutions.

因此，正如我在這 10 年來所做的那樣，可能進行了價值 20 億美元的售後回租交易，以將我們與一些客戶的一些項目的稅收抵免貨幣化。我們的一些客戶喜歡擁有資產，因此喜歡資本支出模型併購買。有些人喜歡訪問我們的解決方案並有效地從我們這裡租賃它。所以我們所做的就是將其打包並出售給銀行。在這些情況下，將這些信貸貨幣化的最佳場所是最有效的場所，例如富國銀行或此類機構等傳統銀行市場。

But they're the most regulated as well. And so they often make us collateralize some of the tax -- investment tax credit in there. So that's what that most -- a lot of that represents. And so it does get released to us about 20% per year. So out of that, balance that $900 million, $950 million number that we have, probably around $200 million gets released, including $50 million in Q1. Well, it'll be $50 million this quarter, it will be $50 million in Q1, that's kind of -- it's up to about a $50 million per quarter release rate.

但它們也是監管最嚴格的。因此，他們經常讓我們抵押一些稅收——投資稅收抵免。這就是最重要的——其中許多所代表的。因此，每年大約有 20% 的內容被釋放給我們。因此，除此之外，平衡我們現有的 9 億美元、9.5 億美元，可能會釋放約 2 億美元，其中包括第一季的 5,000 萬美元。嗯，本季將達到 5,000 萬美元，第一季將達到 5,000 萬美元，也就是說，每季的發行量將達到 5,000 萬美元左右。

Okay. And then you guys have, I think, said this a couple of times in this call, maybe some of the other calls that you guys have kind of a -- you're working through kind of several options for financing and trying to pick the best one. But it looks like you guys added some growing concern language in the 10-Q, and I was just wondering if that like kind of maybe narrows the options that you were exploring previously?

好的。然後，我想，你們在這次電話會議中多次提到這一點，也許你們在其他一些電話會議中也說過——你們正在研究幾種融資方案，並試圖選擇最好的。但看起來你們在 10-Q 中添加了一些越來越令人擔憂的語言，我只是想知道這是否會縮小你們之前探索的選擇範圍？

Not really. I mean we have -- so the language that we've included is oftentimes driven by accounting standards and what you -- you have to evaluate it and manage it. And it's a lot more conservative, obviously, than what we feel like. But I have a $5 billion balance sheet that's unlevered. I mean I really don't have any debt. So there's -- we still are extremely confident about the range of parties and solutions that we're working with. And we haven't seen any tempering of interest given -- I mean it's not news where we sit with our liquidity position and where we're at. We've been pretty clear about that all year in what we're doing and where we're going.

並不真地。我的意思是我們有 - 所以我們所包含的語言通常是由會計標準和您必須評估和管理它的內容所驅動的。顯然，它比我們的感覺保守得多。但我有 50 億美元的無槓桿資產負債表。我的意思是我真的沒有任何債務。因此，我們仍然對我們正在合作的各方和解決方案的範圍充滿信心。我們還沒有看到任何興趣的緩和——我的意思是，我們的流動性狀況和我們所處的位置並不是什麼新聞。我們一整年都非常清楚我們正在做什麼以及我們要去哪裡。

So I think most people certainly understand that and appreciate where we're at and what's to come, which is all this growth and this margin accretion and where it's going. So that's what people are betting on when they want to play -- work with us. And so we don't really see it as limiting our options.

因此，我認為大多數人肯定理解這一點，並欣賞我們的現狀和未來，這就是所有這些成長和利潤成長以及它的發展方向。這就是人們想要玩時所下的賭注——與我們合作。所以我們並不認為它限制了我們的選擇。

Our next question comes from the line of Sherif Elmaghrabi with BMO -- with BTIG.

我們的下一個問題來自 Sherif Elmaghrabi 與 BMO 以及 BTIG 的對話。

So first, I just like a little bit more clarity on the service accrual charge. It makes sense, of course, that the hydrogen shortage affects cost of service, but how have these unplanned outages delayed fleet upgrades for customers?

首先，我希望對服務應計費用有更清楚的了解。當然，氫氣短缺影響服務成本是有道理的，但這些計劃外停電是如何推遲客戶的車隊升級的呢？

Well, that's -- I'm going to give you an answer. I hope you -- I hope it's understandable. So let me -- I'm going to separate into different issues, Sherif. It does slow down upgrade because we have a fleet of 20-plus rolling hydrogen generators. Our service folks -- now we're out on the hydrogen pad almost every day, often connecting and reconnecting and getting our products positioned that one can connect a high-pressure tube trail or 2.

嗯，那就是──我要給你一個答案。我希望你——我希望這是可以理解的。所以讓我——我將分成不同的問題，謝里夫。它確實會減慢升級速度，因為我們擁有 20 多台滾動氫氣發生器。我們的服務人員 - 現在我們幾乎每天都在氫氣墊上，經常連接和重新連接，並將我們的產品定位為可以連接一兩個高壓管道。

And also when you have -- when you start running hydrogen down to very low pressures, which happens often when you're running with these kind of issues, you end up cavitating the liquid hydrogen pumps. So therefore, you're doing a lot more maintenance on the hydrogen pad. So it has a ramification to that. But let me take it further. So it does impact the -- how fast you're implementing because your staff is doing things to keep the customer alive today. So that's why.

而且，當您開始將氫氣降至非常低的壓力時（當您遇到此類問題時經常會發生這種情況），您最終會導致液氫泵出現電洞現象。因此，您需要對氫氣墊進行更多的維護。所以它對此有影響。但讓我更進一步。因此，它確實會影響您的實施速度，因為您的員工今天正在做一些事情來保持客戶的活力。所以這就是為什麼。

Now when I think about the service accrual, I believe that -- the -- if I take a look, and I'm going to talk about our traditional material handling business, our confidence level that -- and we see it, the newer products we put out in the field, perform much better or the latest design, do not have issues. Our legacy units take a lot of time and effort.

現在，當我想到服務應計時，我相信 - 如果我看一下，我將談論我們傳統的物料搬運業務，我們的信心水平 - 我們看到它，更新的我們在現場推出的產品，性能更好或最新設計，沒有問題。我們的遺留單位需要花費大量的時間和精力。

And I quite -- when I look at it, I would not be surprised if over the coming next 2 quarters, we have maybe an additional service accrual. And I think that -- but I believe that we're in a place where that business -- once we get through the legacy issue unit issues, which I think the accrual helps us with, we'll be in a place in the second half of next year, where that line could go in the other direction, could go gross margin positive.

當我看到它時，如果在接下來的兩個季度中，我們可能會有額外的服務應計，我不會感到驚訝。我認為，但我相信，一旦我們解決了遺留問題單位的問題，我認為應計項目可以幫助我們解決這個問題，我們將在第二個階段處於這樣的位置明年下半年，這條線可能會朝另一個方向發展，毛利率可能會出現正值。

But that -- and then I look at our new businesses, and I made references on the call earlier, it's much more interesting. It's much more simpler to for our electrolyzer business and for our stationary business to essentially monitor those systems remotely, dispatch people if they need to make repairs, all those things actually help. We think those businesses will start off with positive service margins to start. So that's kind of how -- I know that's a long answer, Sherif, but that's why there's a connection.

但是，然後我看看我們的新業務，我之前在電話會議上提到過，這更有趣。對於我們的電解槽業務和固定業務來說，遠端監控這些系統、在需要維修時派遣人員，所有這些實際上都有幫助，這要簡單得多。我們認為這些企業將以積極的服務利潤開始。謝里夫，我知道這個答案很長，但這就是為什麼兩者之間有連結。

Long answer, but really good window into nuts and bolts of the business, so I appreciate it. And then a little bit shorter of a question, I guess. When it comes to...

答案很長，但確實是了解業務細節的好窗口，所以我很欣賞。我想，然後是一個稍微短一點的問題。到那一刻...

I was trying to make it a shorter answer, Sherif.

我試著把答案寫得更短，謝里夫。

When it comes from converting the 15 tons per day in Georgia from gaseous to liquid, is it just a matter of adding a liquefier? Or is there more of a retooling process involved? Really, I'm trying to drill down into what's driving the decision to have 15 tons gaseous and then the other 15 tons liquid.

當喬治亞每天 15 噸的氣體從氣態轉化為液態時，是否只需添加液化劑即可？還是涉及更多的重組過程？事實上，我正在嘗試深入探討是什麼因素促使我們決定先生產 15 噸氣體，然後再生產 15 噸液體。

Well, that's -- the gaseous, Sherif, feeds the liquid. So there's not 2 plants. We are looking at the possibilities of expanding Georgia. But Georgia is a liquid plant. There is a 2.5 ton gaseous -- 2-ton gaseous plant that we have there, which is filling these high-pressure 2 trailers I talked about, which are kind of like generators or high-pressure generators on wheels. And -- but the hydrogen that's produced primarily at the Georgia plant feeds the liquefiers. Does that make sense?

嗯，那就是－－謝里夫，氣體供給液體。所以沒有 2 棵植物。我們正在考慮擴大格魯吉亞的可能性。但喬治亞州是一種液體植物。我們那裡有一個 2.5 噸的氣體工廠，它正在填充我談到的這些高壓 2 拖車，它們有點像發電機或帶輪子的高壓發電機。而且 - 但主要在喬治亞州工廠生產的氫氣為液化器提供原料。那有意義嗎？

Makes total sense.

完全有道理。

Our next question comes from Vikram Bagri with Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Vikram Bagri。

To start off the -- on Georgia facility, can you provide some risks that could maybe start up beyond '23? And if any of the funding options that you talked about are contingent on Georgia up and running? And then staying on the same topic, inventory is now over $1 billion. Can it be a source of liquidity as you go into next year? How do you see that trending? And then finally, the quarterly filing has, as you talked about, some cautionary statement about funding being insufficient for operations next year. Any chance you can quantify how much minimum funding is required, assuming tighter controls to go through next year, assuming funding environment is not as supportive?

首先，您能否提供一些可能在 23 年後開始出現的風險？您談到的任何融資方案是否取決於喬治亞州的啟動和運作？繼續討論同樣的主題，目前庫存已超過 10 億美元。當您進入明年時，它可以成為流動性來源嗎？您如何看待這種趨勢？最後，正如您所說，季度備案文件中有一些關於明年營運資金不足的警告聲明。假設明年實施更嚴格的控制，假設融資環境不那麼支持，您是否有機會量化需要多少最低資金？

So let me take the Georgia question, and then I'll let Paul deal with all the financial questions. So when we look at Georgia, we're at the final steps of drying the cold box, the liquefier out. And you have to dry it out to bring it down. So we heat the whole liquefier up to 400, 450 degrees and essentially dry it out to ensure that when you start running at 25 degrees, Kelvin, which is almost absolute 0, you don't have anything in the liquefier that would impede its performance.

因此，讓我來處理喬治亞州的問題，然後我將讓保羅處理所有的財務問題。因此，當我們觀察喬治亞州時，我們正處於乾燥冷箱和液化器的最後步驟。你必須把它弄乾才能把它放下來。因此，我們將整個液化器加熱到 400、450 度，並基本上將其乾燥，以確保當您開始在 25 度開爾文（幾乎絕對為 0）運行時，液化器中沒有任何會妨礙其性能的物質。

There are 8 kind of elements that need to be dried out. And so last night, we dried out the first of 8, which took only 24 hours. I don't expect the others to go as rapidly. But that's really kind of making sure that liquefier is completely dry before we turn it on is one of the risks. The liquefier has been tested before it's left the supplier, but there is always a big difference bringing up in the field. There's a lot of confidence it will come up cleanly. But that's probably where the risks reside. So that's how I think about it. I'll let Paul answer the rest of your questions. So when it comes from a -- from the finance point of view.

需要乾燥的元素有8種。昨晚，我們只花了 24 小時就烘乾了 8 個中的第一個。我不希望其他人走得那麼快。但這實際上是在我們打開液化器之前確保液化器完全乾燥是風險之一。液化器在離開供應商之前已經過測試，但在現場總是存在很大的差異。人們很有信心它會乾淨俐落地出現。但這可能就是風險所在。這就是我的想法。我會讓保羅回答你剩下的問題。所以當它來自——從財務的角度來看。

Yes, there was a lot in your questions, but let me try and do my best. A couple of things. Anymore with the filings, I mean, the way the rules have progressed and the regulations feels like 80% of what's in my filings anymore is risk factors and caveats, right? So we follow the rules. We're compliant, and we want to make sure we're disclosing and doing everything according to the rules.

是的，你的問題很多，但讓我盡力而為。有幾件事。我的意思是，對於這些文件，規則的進展方式和法規感覺我的文件中 80% 的內容不再是風險因素和警告，對吧？所以我們遵守規則。我們是合規的，我們希望確保我們按照規則進行揭露和行事。

But -- so that's what we do. And -- but in terms of the financing themselves, they're not -- it's not like they're contingent on Georgia being turned on. That's not a caveat to us making the decisions on which ones we're going to pick. It's not -- there's a whole range of options that we have available to us, and it's really, again, back to just us being prudent and thoughtful about what choices we're going to make.

但是——這就是我們所做的。而且 - 但就融資本身而言，它們並不是 - 這並不取決於喬治亞州的啟動。這並不是對我們做出選擇的警告。事實並非如此——我們有各種各樣的選擇，而且這實際上又回到了我們對我們將要做出的選擇保持謹慎和深思熟慮的情況。

In terms of the amount of cash that we need next year, really, we're in a great position because -- I mean a good position, I would say, because -- you look at the fact that we've largely spent what we need for Georgia. We're by and large, we don't have much left relatively speaking on Louisiana. We can pace Texas and New York, the big facilities kind of commensurate with the right solutions and trying to figure out which of those are the right solutions.

就我們明年需要的現金數量而言，實際上，我們處於有利地位，因為——我的意思是一個很好的地位，我想說，因為——你會看到這樣一個事實，即我們基本上花了我們需要格魯吉亞。總的來說，相對而言，我們在路易斯安那州所剩無幾。我們可以看看德克薩斯州和紐約，這些大型設施與正確的解決方案相稱，並試圖找出其中哪些是正確的解決方案。

And when you look at our growth, we'll talk more about it in the January business update. But given our forecast for next year, both in terms of top line and margin, we should be in a good position to middle to latter part of next year. We could be crossing into the positive operating cash flows. And so really, in the big scheme of things, it's not a lot to kind of get to that bridge to where we need to be. And life changes for us dramatically as we cross that threshold and in terms of access to institutional money and funding the next round of projects and things that we're doing.

當您看到我們的成長時，我們將在一月份的業務更新中更多地討論它。但考慮到我們對明年的預測，無論是在營收或利潤率方面，我們在明年中後期都應該處於有利位置。我們可能會進入正營運現金流。事實上，從大的計劃來看，到達我們需要到達的地方的橋樑並不是很多。當我們跨越這個門檻時，我們的生活會發生巨大的變化，在獲得機構資金和資助下一輪計畫和我們正在做的事情方面。

So we'll certainly talk more as in the January business update and as we get through our year-end filing. But we feel good about the range of options that we have and the position that we're in and where we're poised to fund our business plan in the near term.

因此，我們肯定會在 1 月的業務更新和年終申報中進行更多討論。但我們對我們擁有的選擇範圍、我們所處的位置以及我們準備在短期內為我們的業務計劃提供資金的情況感到滿意。

And in terms of inventory, is that sort of like -- sort of source of liquidity for you guys in the near term? Can you bring that number down meaningfully from $1 billion now?

就庫存而言，這是否是你們近期的流動性來源？您能否將這個數字從現在的 10 億美元大幅降低？

Yes, we absolutely can and are focused on it. So as -- when you're scaling a bunch of new things at the same time and you're kind of focused on speed to market and scaling up the breadth of platforms, it's hard to focus on efficiency and optimization as much. But now that we're really starting to scale those products up, we're able to kind of think more and ramp more from an optimization and efficiency standpoint and also time things better and work with the vendors better on deliveries and consignment and other tools that we use that can drive that down. But it is a substantial source of liquidity. And obviously, it means we can spend a lot less as we ramp that down in the near term.

是的，我們絕對可以並且正在專注於此。因此，當您同時擴展一堆新事物並且專注於上市速度和擴大平台的廣度時，很難同時關注效率和優化。但現在我們真的開始擴大這些產品的規模，我們能夠從優化和效率的角度進行更多思考和提升，並更好地安排時間，並在交付、寄售和其他工具方面與供應商更好地合作我們使用它可以降低這種情況。但這就是流動性的重要來源。顯然，這意味著我們可以在短期內減少支出，從而減少支出。

Our next question comes from the line of Martin Malloy with Johnson Rice.

我們的下一個問題來自馬丁·馬洛伊和約翰遜·賴斯的對話。

I was wondering if you could maybe talk about nuclear operators as potential customers for electrolyzers?

我想知道您是否可以談談核能運營商作為電解槽的潛在客戶？

Sure. Do you want to take that one, Sanjay?

當然。桑傑，你想買那個嗎？

Sure, Andy. Again, Martin, this makes a lot of sense, right, in terms of when we think about all sorts of clean energy and how some of those clean energy can be used to produce green hydrogen. So look, I mean, we have some effort going on along those lines. So there are some activities happening. So we certainly see that as a part of our electrolyzer business opportunity, whether it's just a direct electrolyzer sale or does that also expand into potentially even building a liquid plant there. But the -- it's a very fair question. And short answer to that question is we have some of those activities going on and look forward to sharing a lot more with you all.

當然，安迪。再一次，馬丁，當我們考慮各種清潔能源以及如何使用其中一些清潔能源來生產綠氫時，這很有意義，對吧。所以，我的意思是，我們正在沿著這些方向做出一些努力。所以有一些活動正在發生。因此，我們當然認為這是我們電解槽業務機會的一部分，無論是直接電解槽銷售還是也可能擴展到在那裡建造一座液體工廠。但這是一個非常公平的問題。對這個問題的簡短回答是，我們正在進行一些活動，並期待與大家分享更多內容。

And again, some of these areas, whether it's nuclear or some of the other opportunity here in the U.S., this bigger opportunity, I think, are going to get unlocked here as we get further guidance surrounding what exactly is going to be the language from the treasury on the PTC and IRA.

再說一次，其中一些領域，無論是核領域還是美國的其他一些機會，我認為，隨著我們獲得關於語言到底是什麼的進一步指導，這個更大的機會將在這裡解鎖。PTC 和IRA 上的國庫。

Great. And for my follow-up question. I just wanted to try to get a sense of level of interest that you all have and maybe monetizing some of these green hydrogen plants as you bring them on in terms of selling down interest in them? I saw the Fortescue news that you shared with us. But maybe if you could give us your thoughts around that?

偉大的。對於我的後續問題。我只是想嘗試了解你們所有人的興趣程度，也許當你們透過出售對這些綠色氫工廠的興趣來將它們貨幣化？我看到了您與我們分享的 Fortescue 新聞。但也許您可以告訴我們您對此的想法嗎？

Paul, do you want to take that one?

保羅，你想拿那個嗎？

Yes. I guess, my bias selfishly is to not sell equity out of those plants because that obviously is the most expensive capital. So it's better for Plug, but we have to think more broadly than that, given the breadth of agenda that we have and the capital needs and the solutions that we have and the timing and also the partners that we're working with. I mean in the case of Fortescue, the fact that they've got interesting investment alternatives and platforms that we can co-invest in their platforms, that can be a meaningful opportunity for us. And so we've not necessarily acted on some of those opportunities.

是的。我想，我自私的偏見是不出售這些工廠的股權，因為這顯然是最昂貴的資本。因此，這對 Plug 來說更好，但考慮到我們議程的廣度、資本需求、我們擁有的解決方案、時間安排以及我們正在合作的合作夥伴，我們必須考慮得更廣泛。我的意思是，就 Fortescue 而言，他們有有趣的投資選擇和平台，我們可以共同投資他們的平台，這對我們來說可能是一個有意義的機會。因此，我們不一定會抓住其中一些機會。

We continue to nurture them, and we continue to see more expressions of interest with multiple parties that would like to take equity stakes in our plants. And so we're going to continue to nurture those concepts and discussions in context with other alternatives and work towards what we think is the best answer. Hopefully, that helps, Martin.

我們繼續培養他們，我們繼續看到更多的多方表達了想要持有我們工廠股權的興趣。因此，我們將繼續在其他替代方案的背景下培養這些概念和討論，並努力尋找我們認為最好的答案。希望這會有所幫助，馬丁。

Yes, it does. Very helpful.

是的，它確實。很有幫助。

That is our last question for the day. I appreciate everyone attending the call and asking the questions -- asking your questions. And as Paul mentioned, we will be having our January update call as we do every year to provide you insights into our strategies for 2024. So thank you very much, and look forward to talking to everyone in the near future. Bye now.

這是我們今天的最後一個問題。我感謝大家參加電話會議並提出問題——提出你們的問題。正如 Paul 所提到的，我們將像每年一樣召開 1 月份更新電話會議，為您提供有關我們 2024 年策略的見解。非常感謝您，並期待在不久的將來與大家交談。再見了。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與。