普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Plug Power Fourth Quarter 2023 and Year-End Earnings Call and Webcast. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Meryl Fritz, Marketing and Communications Manager for Plug Power. Please go ahead, Meryl.

您好，歡迎參加 Plug Power 2023 年第四季和年終收益電話會議和網路廣播。 （操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。現在我很高興將電話轉給 Plug Power 行銷和傳播經理 Meryl Fritz。請繼續，梅麗爾。

Thank you. Welcome to the Plug Power Q4 Year-end Earnings Call. This will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements include, among others, statements of expectations, beliefs, future plans and strategies, anticipated results from operations and developments and other matters that are not historical facts. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝。歡迎參加 Plug Power 第四季年終財報電話會議。這將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包括但不限於預期、信念、未來計畫和策略、營運和發展的預期結果以及其他非歷史事實的陳述。我們希望這些前瞻性聲明受到 1933 年《證券法》第 27A 條和 1934 年《證券交易法》第 21E 條所載前瞻性陳述安全港條款的涵蓋。

We believe that it's important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements, and such statements should not be read or understood as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are based upon the current expectations, estimates, forecasts and projections as well as the current beliefs and assumptions of management and are subject to significant risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, the risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A, Risk Factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2023, and other reports we file from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的期望非常重要。然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被解讀或理解為對未來績效或結果的保證。此類陳述基於當前的預期、估計、預測和預測以及管理層當前的信念和假設，並受到重大風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果或績效與由於各種因素而討論的結果或業績有重大差異。因素，包括但不限於我們截至2023 年12 月31 日的財政年度10-K 表格年度報告中的第1A 項、風險因素以及我們不時向公司提交的其他報告中討論的風險和不確定性證券交易委員會。

These forward-looking statements speak only of day in which statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information.

這些前瞻性陳述僅涉及做出陳述的當天，我們不承諾或打算在本次電話會議後或因新資訊而更新任何前瞻性陳述。

At this point, I'd like to turn the call over to Plug Power's CEO, Andy Marsh.

現在，我想將電話轉給 Plug Power 的執行長 Andy Marsh。

Thank you, Meryl, and thank you, everyone, for joining today's call. On January 24, Paul and I provided an overview of Plug Power's results and achievements from the past year. A highlight was the launch of our Georgia plant, making us a leader in the PEM electrolyzer space and the world's foremost producer of liquid green hydrogen. This achievement signifies a leap forward for the hydrogen industry, placing Plug Power at the Vanguard green hydrogen production and challenging the status quo.

謝謝梅莉爾，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。 1 月 24 日，Paul 和我概述了 Plug Power 過去一年的成果和成就。一個亮點是我們喬治亞州工廠的啟動，使我們成為 PEM 電解槽領域的領導者和世界上最重要的液態綠氫生產商。這項成就標誌著氫能產業的飛躍，使 Plug Power 成為綠氫能生產的先驅並挑戰現狀。

Our ambitions continues with the initiation of a joint venture with Olin at St. Gabriel, Louisiana, poised to further assert our leadership in the liquid hydrogen production world with its upcoming operation expected in the third quarter.

我們的雄心壯志仍在繼續，與 Olin 在路易斯安那州聖加布里埃爾成立了一家合資企業，預計將於第三季度投入運營，進一步鞏固我們在液氫生產領域的領導地位。

Additionally, the securing of a $1.6 billion term sheet from the Department of Energy is a testament to our commitment to enhancing our hydrogen production capabilities across the United States. We expect conditional approval under the term sheet in the coming weeks.

此外，從能源部獲得 16 億美元的投資意向書證明了我們致力於增強美國各地氫氣生產能力的承諾。我們預計未來幾週內條款清單將獲得有條件批准。

Financially, in the past quarter, we made important strides in improving cash management and fostering growth that bolsters cash generation, effectively addressing our going concern. We had operational successes such as expanding our material handling footprint with giants like Walmart, Home Depot and Amazon and pioneering with a 1-megawatt electrolyzer system for on-site green hydrogen generation at an Amazon facility. Our launch of innovative platforms and products, including a high-power stationary fuel cell system and a 100-megawatt electrolyzer project for GALP underscores our relentless pursuit of innovation and leadership in the green energy sphere.

在財務方面，上個季度，我們在改善現金管理和促進成長以促進現金產生方面取得了重要進展，有效解決了我們的持續經營問題。我們在營運方面取得了成功，例如與沃爾瑪、家得寶和亞馬遜等巨頭合作擴大了我們的物料搬運足跡，並在亞馬遜工廠率先推出了 1 兆瓦電解槽系統，用於現場綠色氫氣生成。我們推出的創新平台和產品，包括高功率固定式燃料電池系統和 GALP 100 兆瓦電解槽項目，凸顯了我們對綠色能源領域創新和領導地位的不懈追求。

These efforts reflect our strategic intent to augment our product suite and enlarge our market footprint. So many are role and spearheading a more sustainable energy future.

這些努力反映了我們增強產品系列和擴大市場足跡的策略意圖。許多人都在引領更永續的能源未來。

As we move into 2024, our focus sharpens on fortifying our financial foundation and sustaining continued expansion. Our resolve to propel the hydrogen economy is matched by our strategic shift towards capitalizing on existing investment and a cautious approach to cash management. Setting the stage for persistent growth and innovation.

進入 2024 年，我們的重點將更加集中在鞏固財務基礎和維持持續擴張。我們推動氫經濟的決心與我們向利用現有投資和謹慎現金管理的策略轉變相匹配。為持續成長和創新奠定基礎。

Cornerstone on this year's strategic direction is a significant restructuring aim in unlocking $75 million in savings, demonstrating our commitment to operational excellence and fiscal discipline. Additionally, we've reevaluated our pricing to ensure it mirrors the unparalleled view -- value of our innovative offering.

今年策略方向的基石是一項重大重組目標，旨在節省 7,500 萬美元，體現了我們對卓越營運和財務紀律的承諾。此外，我們重新評估了我們的定價，以確保它反映了無與倫比的觀點——我們創新產品的價值。

Looking ahead, investors can expect to see a marked improvement in our financial health, highlighted by improved gross margins and reduced cash outflows supported by a decrease in working capital. These initiatives are critical for navigating financial complexity and laying down the groundwork for continuous innovation and leadership in the renewable energy sector, promising a clear trajectory for value creation and sustainable growth in the dynamic hydrogen economy.

展望未來，投資人預期我們的財務狀況將顯著改善，其中毛利率提高，營運資本減少導致現金流出減少。這些舉措對於應對金融複雜性以及為再生能源領域的持續創新和領導地位奠定基礎至關重要，並為動態氫經濟中的價值創造和永續成長提供了明確的軌跡。

Now let me turn the discussion over to Paul for financial insights.

現在讓我將討論轉交給保羅，以獲取財務見解。

Good morning, everybody. As I shared back in January in the business update, 2023 was another substantial year for Plug Power, and there were many positives. Focusing specifically on the 10-K filing last night, there are a few highlights I would point out. Based on our actions in the last few months, we have addressed the going concern issue. As we finalized the accounting for the fourth quarter, sales for the fourth quarter came in at $222 million, which was slightly higher than the guidance we had provided back in January.

大家早安。正如我在一月份的業務更新中所分享的那樣，2023 年對於 Plug Power 來說又是重要的一年，並且有許多積極的一面。特別關注昨晚的 10-K 文件，我想指出一些亮點。根據我們過去幾個月的行動，我們已經解決了持續經營問題。當我們最終確定第四季度的會計數據時，第四季度的銷售額為 2.22 億美元，略高於我們 1 月提供的指引。

Regarding the material weakness issues identified in our 2022 filing based on the efforts in 2023, we have resolved the issues that were outstanding, and this reflects a substantial improvement in our key operations and processes. We have 2 new specific issues in '23 that relate to new business dynamics, but these are much more narrow issues, and we feel confident we can resolve these in the coming months. There are many challenges in 2023 as well and some of these certainly impacted our Q4 2023 results.

對於2022年備案中發現的重大缺陷問題，我們在2023年的努力基礎上，已經解決了突出的問題，這反映了我們關鍵營運和流程的實質改進。我們在 23 年有 2 個與新業務動態相關的新具體問題，但這些問題範圍要小得多，我們有信心在未來幾個月內解決這些問題。 2023 年也面臨許多挑戰，其中一些肯定會影響我們 2023 年第四季的業績。

The chaos in the hydrogen fuel market in '23, with an unprecedented number of industry fuel facility shutdowns culminated in the third quarter and has since abated but effects continued into the fourth quarter.

23 年氫燃料市場的混亂局面，工業燃料設施關閉數量空前，在第三季達到高峰，此後有所緩解，但影響持續到第四季。

Our own hydrogen plant's scale-up effort has taken longer than planned and given our continued application growth and the new demand from these application sales -- it has made the industry shortage and the new facility delays more of a pressing issues.

我們自己的氫工廠的擴大規模工作比計劃的時間要長，而且考慮到我們的應用持續增長以及這些應用銷售帶來的新需求，這使得行業短缺和新設施延遲成為更緊迫的問題。

Doing big new things generally often is harder than you plan, and often -- and our new product platforms like the 5-megawatt electrolyzer system or high-power stationary have held true to this, which in turn, pushed some of the sales into 2024 and has delayed some of the cost down activities associated with these new platforms. Some of the IRA guidance on varied provisions in 2023 were favorable to Plug. But recent guidance on PTC and manufacturing credits were not as favorable as hoped. We are active in the treasury comment process and continue to advocate for final rules that will be more appropriate for the industry.

做大的新事情通常比你計劃的要困難，而且經常——我們的新產品平台，如5 兆瓦電解槽系統或高功率固定式設備，都遵循了這一點，這反過來又將部分銷售額推到了2024 年並推遲了與這些新平台相關的一些成本降低活動。 IRA 對 2023 年各種條款的一些指導對 Plug 有利。但最近關於 PTC 和製造信貸的指導並不如預期的那麼有利。我們積極參與財政部的意見徵詢過程，並繼續倡導制定更適合該行業的最終規則。

And lastly, as we said last time, the overall economy and political factors like the interest rate hikes have not exactly made it easier to find debt capital efficiently. Given these factors, as we discussed in the January business update call, we've decided to make certain decisions to posture for better cash position in lieu of just revenue.

最後，正如我們上次所說，整體經濟和升息等政治因素並沒有讓有效找到債務資本變得更容易。考慮到這些因素，正如我們在一月份的業務更新電話會議中所討論的那樣，我們決定做出某些決定，以實現更好的現金狀況，而不是僅僅依靠收入。

As an example, instead of our normal PPA sale leasebacks for which we get revenue, but must restrict a lot of the cash. We held many of those programs in Q4 that were underway in lieu of completing the standard sale-leaseback transaction and commenced the program under the new IRA transferability rules, which we believe will allow us to sell the ITC benefits in 2024.

舉個例子，我們不是透過正常的購電協議售後回租來獲得收入，而是必須限制大量現金。我們在第四季度舉行了許多正在進行的計劃，以代替完成標準售後回租交易，並根據新的 IRA 可轉讓規則啟動該計劃，我們相信這將使我們能夠在 2024 年出售 ITC 福利。

We've also slowed new pilot programs for new platforms given they generally consume more cash in the initial phases. These are business decisions that will guide our near-term focus as well. During the fourth quarter, we had one of our significant traditional PPA customers move to a direct sales approach, and they purchased 7 sites. However, given the fuel issues previously mentioned, they pushed the deployment into '24.

我們也放慢了新平台的新試點計劃，因為它們通常在初始階段消耗更多現金。這些商業決策也將引導我們的近期重點。在第四季度，我們的一個重要傳統 PPA 客戶轉向了直接銷售方式，他們購買了 7 個地點。然而，考慮到前面提到的燃料問題，他們將部署推遲到了 24 年。

Also, as I mentioned, we purposely held off on traditional PPA sales leaseback transactions in the fourth quarter for other customers, which resulted in lower sales than historically. And on our 1- and 5-megawatt electrolyzer platforms, these are new designs, new offerings that have taken time to scale. Many new programs were shipped in Q4, but just did not get to final commissioning, hence, the respective sales were pushed into '24.

此外，正如我所提到的，我們在第四季度故意推遲了其他客戶的傳統購電協議銷售回租交易，這導致銷售額低於歷史水平。在我們的 1 兆瓦和 5 兆瓦電解槽平台上，這些都是新設計、新產品，需要時間來規模化。許多新程式在第四季度就已發貨，但只是沒有進入最終調試，因此相應的銷售被推遲到了24年。

As a net impact from overall lower sales than originally anticipated, this resulted in lower volumes and in turn, lower fixed cost absorption. This, coupled with continued new product investments and certain inventory valuation charges as we continue to shape the business model and market approach overall resulted in lower gross margins than originally anticipated for the fourth quarter.

由於整體銷售低於最初預期，導致銷售下降，進而導致固定成本吸收降低。再加上我們繼續塑造業務模式和市場方法而持續進行的新產品投資和某些庫存評估費用，導致第四季度的毛利率低於最初預期。

The inventory provision for noncash charges, and we remain focused on how to monetize and maximize the leverage of these assets. But given the dynamics, it was prudent to report these valuation adjustments.

庫存準備金用於非現金費用，我們仍然關注如何貨幣化和最大化這些資產的槓桿作用。但考慮到動態，報告這些估值調整是謹慎的。

And the last comment I would make is that given the softening of the capital markets and our stock price, it led us to do a more in-depth evaluation of goodwill we had on our balance sheet. As a result, we reported a noncash impairment charge for the goodwill of $250 million.

我要說的最後一點是，鑑於資本市場和我們的股價走軟，這促使我們對資產負債表上的商譽進行更深入的評估。因此，我們報告了 2.5 億美元的商譽非現金減損費用。

Turning our focus to '24. We know we must significantly improve margin and cash flow, and we see this as an opportunity to reset. We are pursuing significant price increases across all offerings, equipment, service and fuel. We've implemented a reduction in workforce and a hiring freeze, which will lower payroll costs. We are consolidating facilities and streamlining processes.

將我們的焦點轉向'24。我們知道我們必須大幅提高利潤率和現金流，我們認為這是一個重置的機會。我們正在尋求所有產品、設備、服務和燃料的大幅漲價。我們已經實施了裁員和凍結招聘，這將降低工資成本。我們正在整合設施並簡化流程。

We're reducing spend on non-personnel costs. We've invested significantly in inventory in 2023 to support the ongoing growth, and this means we have much of the material we need for '24 on hand. And so our focus now is to optimize and significantly reduce the inventory investment. We're making certain focused commercial decisions such as pushing traditional PPA customers to direct sales models versus our past practice where we subscribe the solution. We're managing the timing of deployments in certain new platforms with enhanced focus on cash and profitability.

我們正在減少非人員成本支出。我們在 2023 年對庫存進行了大量投資，以支持持續成長，這意味著我們手頭上擁有 24 小時所需的大量材料。因此，我們現在的重點是優化並大幅減少庫存投資。我們正在做出某些有針對性的商業決策，例如推動傳統 PPA 客戶採用直銷模式，而不是我們過去訂閱解決方案的做法。我們正在管理某些新平台的部署時間，更加重視現金和獲利能力。

We'll continue the nurturing effort on these platforms, but focus on escalating the cost curves before we ramp sales efforts. Now that we've commissioned the new hydrogen facilities in Georgia and Tennessee, we will use these plans to drive margin improvement and fuel costs. Costs at these facilities is expected to be 1/3 of the market cost without any ITC or PTC benefits. And we've slowed investment in the follow-on hydrogen facilities in Texas and New York until we find the right financing solution.

我們將繼續在這些平台上進行培育工作，但在加強銷售力度之前，專注於提升成本曲線。現在我們已經在喬治亞州和田納西州啟用了新的氫設施，我們將利用這些計劃來推動利潤率的提高和燃料成本的提高。在沒有任何 ITC 或 PTC 福利的情況下，這些設施的成本預計為市場成本的 1/3。我們已經放緩了對德克薩斯州和紐約後續氫設施的投資，直到找到合適的融資解決方案。

In 2024, we are targeting to reduce the cash burn by over 70% from 2023 with lower CapEx, a reduction in investment in working capital and improved margins. We're also targeting to leverage these improvements to achieve a positive cash flow rate in the next 12 months. Raising prices, slowing new product scaling and pushing traditional PPA market customers to direct sales models collectively will mean a lower revenue growth rate in the near term compared to our prior history we think this paradigm shift is critical and necessary given the market conditions.

到 2024 年，我們的目標是透過降低資本支出、減少營運資本投資並提高利潤率，將現金消耗比 2023 年減少 70% 以上。我們還計劃利用這些改進在未來 12 個月內實現正現金流。提高價格、放慢新產品規模擴張以及推動傳統PPA 市場客戶轉向直銷模式，將意味著與我們之前的歷史相比，短期內收入增長率較低，我們認為考慮到市場條件，這種範式轉變至關重要且必要。

And equally important, it will substantially improve the foundation for which Plug will be able to grow more rapidly and profitably in the years to come. We feel confident about these strategic decisions to adjust our near-term focus and to improve cash burn, and we are seeing benefits even in the first quarter.

同樣重要的是，它將大大改善 Plug 在未來幾年實現更快速成長和獲利的基礎。我們對這些策略決策充滿信心，可以調整我們的近期重點並改善現金消耗，甚至在第一季我們就看到了好處。

In addition, we filed an ATM facility, which can be used to address the accounting exercise for the going concern analysis given the liquidity available to us under the principal transaction aspect of the facility.

此外，我們還提交了 ATM 設施，考慮到我們在該設施的主要交易方面可用的流動性，該設施可用於解決持續營運分析的會計工作。

Our near-term capital strategy is very focused: drive significant improvement in the cash burn by reducing CapEx, reducing inventory investment, improving margins and tempering new platform spending, work with the DOE to secure the DOE $1.6 billion project financing facility while developing complementary follow-on project financing solutions. Leverage the ATM facility as needed as we continue to develop the varied debt solutions we are evaluating and continuing to develop varied debt opportunities.

我們的近期資本策略非常集中：透過減少資本支出、減少庫存投資、提高利潤率和調整新平台支出，顯著改善現金消耗，與能源部合作，確保能源部16 億美元的專案融資便利，同時制定補充性後續計劃- 專案融資解決方案。當我們繼續開發我們正在評估的各種債務解決方案並繼續開發各種債務機會時，根據需要利用 ATM 設施。

The company has received and continue to receive many debt offers, but they have not been for terms that are interesting to the company. Part of this was driven from the ongoing interest rate hikes. The ATM program, coupled with the reduced cash burn efforts, puts us in a position to be more selective as we continue to -- developing these solutions. I'll now turn it back to Andy.

該公司已經並將繼續收到許多債務要約，但其條款並不令該公司感興趣。部分原因是持續升息。 ATM 計劃加上現金消耗量的減少，使我們能夠在繼續開發這些解決方案時更具選擇性。我現在把它轉回給安迪。

Well, thank you, everyone, and we're ready to take questions.

好的，謝謝大家，我們準備好回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today is coming from James West from Evercore ISI.

（操作員說明）今天我們的第一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 James West。

The first question, and Paul, you alluded to a lot of this in your prepared comments, but the bridge kind of debt financing we're at a point where cash has come down, and there's a lot of concerns, of course, by the market. I recognize the ATM should relieve a lot of that concern. But does -- I guess there's 2 parts to this. One, when should we think about your ability or your plans to announce some bridge type of financing here? And then two, does the ATM work? Is that the -- accounting-wise, does that help secure the DOE loan?

第一個問題，保羅，您在準備好的評論中提到了很多這一點，但是我們正處於現金下降的過渡式債務融資階段，當然，有很多擔憂市場。我認識到自動櫃員機應該可以緩解很多這種擔憂。但確實——我想這有兩個部分。第一，我們什麼時候應該考慮您在這裡宣布某種過渡性融資的能力或計劃？第二，ATM 機可以運作嗎？從會計角度來看，這是否有助於獲得能源部貸款？

That's okay. So I guess just answering the second question first. Obviously, us solving the going concern helps not only the DOE loan, but helps other debt solutions as well. It helps in many, many ways. And so that is certainly significantly helpful. And the capacity of that facility, not to say we will use it all but it's something that we can use ongoing as we move through the year to continue to address future liquidity solutions while we chase and develop things like the DOE loan and other things.

沒關係。所以我想先回答第二個問題。顯然，我們解決持續經營問題不僅有助於能源部貸款，也有助於其他債務解決方案。它在很多方面都有幫助。所以這肯定是非常有幫助的。以及該設施的容量，並不是說我們將全部使用它，而是我們可以在這一年中持續使用它，以繼續解決未來的流動性解決方案，同時我們追求和開發能源部貸款和其他東西。

First and foremost, our focus in the last quarter was solving the going concern, which we have done. That helps tremendously with customers, vendors, other debt providers. We are still nurturing a number of different parties. We still -- even as of last week, we get term sheets and we're nurturing solutions. And so I would also say we absolutely, as I mentioned, expect a significant reduction in the burn this year. We're sitting in a good position as we start the year. We're already seeing benefits of that in the first quarter. CapEx will come down tremendously.

首先也是最重要的，我們上個季度的重點是解決持續經營問題，我們已經做到了。這對客戶、供應商和其他債務提供者有很大幫助。我們仍在培養一些不同的政黨。即使截至上週，我們仍然收到了投資意向書，並且正在培養解決方案。因此，我還想說，正如我所提到的，我們絕對預計今年的燃燒量將大幅減少。新年伊始，我們處於有利位置。我們在第一季就已經看到了這樣做的好處。資本支出將大幅下降。

Inventory is a substantial asset that we can leverage and help reduce the burn in our working capital. And all of those things, success we get success.

庫存是我們可以利用的重要資產，有助於減少營運資金的消耗。所有這些事情，只要成功，我們就會成功。

And so we'll continue to -- I think we'll have a number of new solutions will keep working through the second quarter and we'll keep you posted as those things unfold. But you will absolutely see a reduction in the burn, which sets the stage for us to continue finding better and better solutions as we move forward.

因此，我們將繼續——我認為我們將有許多新的解決方案將在第二季度繼續發揮作用，隨著這些事情的進展，我們將隨時向您通報情況。但你絕對會看到燃燒的減少，這為我們在前進過程中繼續尋找越來越好的解決方案奠定了基礎。

Okay. Okay. Got it. And then maybe Andy or Sanjay, as you addressed the new pricing with your customers? And I know I asked you this on your last call, it was kind of early days there but -- and the discussions are never easy, of course. But how have they gone at this point, have -- as the pricing increases, have they been successful? Are you seeing the benefits of that? I guess, how is that all playing out in the market?

好的。好的。知道了。然後，當您與客戶討論新定價時，也許是安迪或桑傑？我知道我在上次通話時問過你這個問題，當時還處於早期階段，但是——當然，討論從來都不容易。但隨著價格的上漲，他們現在進展如何，是否取得了成功？您看到這樣做的好處了嗎？我想，這一切在市場上的表現如何？

So James, as you mentioned, quoting me from the January call, it's never an easy discussion. But when we look at our customer base, we're through about half those discussions, and we've made good progress. I think you'll see the main benefits starting to flow through our financials in the second quarter. I want to point to 2 press releases from last week where we announced new deals.

所以詹姆斯，正如你所提到的，引用我一月份電話會議的內容，這從來都不是一個容易的討論。但當我們審視我們的客戶群時，我們已經完成了大約一半的討論，並且取得了良好的進展。我認為您會在第二季看到我們的財務狀況開始反映主要效益。我想指出上週我們宣布了新交易的兩份新聞稿。

Both of those deals, we were able to achieve our newer higher price structure actually after the initial negotiations with those customers. So it's never a panacea. I would also say that we have seen some support on the supply side. Our partners in the industrial gas market like Linde have been helpful in helping us resolve some of these challenges. So I think you're seeing support on the pricing side, but also some support on the supply side.

在與這些客戶進行初步談判後，我們實際上能夠在這兩筆交易中實現更新的更高價格結構。所以它從來就不是靈丹妙藥。我還要說，我們在供應方面看到了一些支持。我們在工業氣體市場的合作夥伴（例如林德）幫助我們解決了其中一些挑戰。因此，我認為您會看到定價方面的支持，但也看到供應方面的一些支持。

I had one of our largest suppliers tell me the success in the future of the hydrogen market really is dependent upon what Plug has done. And so there are folks who are looking to find ways to help us. And I think in the second quarter, it will become apparent.

我們最大的供應商之一告訴我，氫市場未來的成功實際上取決於 Plug 所做的事情。因此，有人正在尋找方法來幫助我們。我認為在第二季度，這一點將會變得明顯。

Well, maybe following up on that, Andy. The comment period for the guidance on 45V is in here. Curious what you're hearing from the US government and representatives that you're obviously close to particularly in New York State and West Virginia on how that -- guidance may change?

好吧，也許會跟進這個問題，安迪。 45V 指南的評論期在此。想知道您從美國政府和代表那裡聽到的消息，尤其是在紐約州和西維吉尼亞州，指導方針可能會改變嗎？

So James, the guidance has been there were over 29,000, 30,000 comments to the guidance. If I was going to take a step back, and point to one comment that came actually from all 7 hydrogen hubs. The hubs are very important to the DOE and the Biden administration. And it is remarkable that all those hubs stood together and said that the guidance given will be very, very -- will really slow the growth if they continue in place as they are.

詹姆斯，該指南已經有超過 29,000 至 30,000 條對該指南的評論。如果我要退一步，並指出一條實際上來自所有 7 個氫中心的評論。這些中心對能源部和拜登政府非常重要。值得注意的是，所有這些中心都站在一起表示，如果它們繼續保持原樣，所給予的指導將非常非常地減緩成長。

I've spent time on the hill with union leaders with one union where there were 500,000 members of the union, folks from the nuclear -- CEOs from the nuclear power industry. And I think when we look at it, we would expect that nuclear and hydro, there will be reduced restrictions on those two. I think you'll probably see that grandfathering, which would kill many financing options probably will be lifted. I think something will happen on time matching. That's I think a lot of folks here, the wind and solar industry has been very aggressive.

我曾在山上與工會領導人一起度過一段時光，該工會有 50 萬名工會成員，他們是來自核電行業的執行長。我認為，當我們審視它時，我們預計核能和水力發電對這兩者的限制將會減少。我想你可能會看到會取消許多融資選擇的祖父條款可能會被取消。我認為按時匹配會發生一些事情。我認為這裡的很多人，風能和太陽能產業一直都非常積極。

Folks on the hills will point to me to one that many of these initial announcements from treasuries have been very strict and they have loosened up and I think a perfect one is natural gas dose, right, which we're very, very restricted. I think that it won't -- I think you'll see changes. And I think those changes will be positive for the industry. Not perfect but positive.

山上的人們會向我指出，財政部最初發布的許多公告都非常嚴格，但現在已經放鬆了，我認為完美的一個是天然氣劑量，對吧，我們對此非常非常限制。我認為不會——我認為你會看到變化。我認為這些變化將對行業產生積極影響。不完美但積極。

Your next question is coming from Manav Gupta from UBS.

你們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的 Manav Gupta。

One growth area where we're seeing a lot of exciting news, and I think you can have leverage and was kind of missing a little from the earlier comments was this entire AI-driven data centers, backup power. Obviously, you have contracts with Microsoft over there. Can you talk about how you can use your -- leverage your system and what you're seeing out there? To kind of attack that market and grow in this backup power market or even of the grid solutions for data centers and stuff.

我們看到了很多令人興奮的消息的一個成長領域，我認為你可以發揮影響力，但之前的評論中有點遺漏了整個人工智慧驅動的資料中心和備用電源。顯然，您與那邊的微軟有合約。您能談談如何使用您的系統以及您所看到的情況嗎？進軍該市場並在備用電源市場甚至資料中心和其他電網解決方案中實現成長。

So when you look at the 3 major data center operators, Plug is engaged and planning. And I'm going to call them some initial deployment and test with all. This won't be rapid during the next year or 2. But certainly, all of them because of the restrictions of diesel engines because of as you mentioned that how do you want to make sure you have continuous uptime.

因此，當你觀察三大資料中心營運商時，Plug 正在積極參與和規劃。我將把它們稱為一些初始部署和測試。這在未來一兩年內不會很快。但當然，所有這些都是由於柴油引擎的限制，因為正如您所提到的，您希望如何確保有連續的正常運行時間。

And look, Plug has developed the premier product. No one's going through all the requirements to be able to operate in a data center. The big challenge and the one that we're working through is making sure how you manage hydrogen. And we really, working with these customers to really use not only the product as a backup power system, but also to be able to do peak low shaving. And I think the combination of those two will really allow this market to grow. I don't think it's a 2024 event. I think it could be a late 2025 event where you start seeing some deployments. It's a little level of scale. But that's -- when we -- we've spent a lot of time and we developed a rather comprehensive marketing approach with one of the leading firms and the consulting firms in the world who knows more about hydrogen than anyone else. And they have told me that this is the market that ultimately will become our dominant market. But it's going to take a bit.

看，Plug 已經開發出了一流的產品。沒有人能夠滿足在資料中心運行的所有要求。我們正在努力解決的一大挑戰是確保如何管理氫氣。我們確實與這些客戶合作，不僅真正將該產品用作備用電源系統，而且能夠實現峰值低調。我認為這兩者的結合將真正讓這個市場成長。我不認為這是 2024 年的活動。我認為這可能是 2025 年末的活動，您將開始看到一些部署。這只是一個小規模的水平。但這是——當我們——我們花了很多時間，我們與世界上比其他人更了解氫的領先公司和諮詢公司之一開發了相當全面的營銷方法。他們告訴我，這個市場最終將成為我們的主導市場。但這需要一點時間。

Perfect, Andy. And just a quick clarification here. On multiple calls in the last 2 times, you have indicated that there were a whole bunch of unplanned outages within the hydrogen industry, which were restricting supply. Those were the headwinds to your third quarter margins. Those were also the headwinds to your fourth quarter margins but you'd also indicated that things are improving as we get into January. So should we assume that at least some of those unplanned downtimes are gone and then your own supply is ramping up. So some of those shortfalls would be better addressed as we enter 2024.

完美，安迪。這裡簡單說明一下。在過去兩次的多次電話中，您表示氫氣行業內發生了大量計劃外停電，這限制了供應。這些都是第三季利潤率面臨的不利因素。這些也是您第四季度利潤率的阻力，但您也表示，隨著進入一月份，情況正在改善。因此，我們是否應該假設至少有一些計劃外停機時間已經消失，然後您自己的供應量正在增加。因此，隨著我們進入 2024 年，其中一些不足將會得到更好的解決。

The answer to your question is yes. If you look at the network at the moment, it has been stable throughout 2024. Our increased production, the rest of the network, our increased production, the rest of the network has been relatively stable. And I would think -- I have not spent a minute in 2024, worrying about customers not receiving hydrogen, which is dramatically different what it was like in October, November, and in 2023.

你的問題的答案是肯定的。如果你看看現在的網絡，整個2024年它一直很穩定。我們增加了產量，網絡的其餘部分，我們增加了產量，網絡的其餘部分一直相對穩定。我想，在 2024 年，我沒有花一分鐘擔心客戶無法收到氫氣，這與 10 月、11 月和 2023 年的情況截然不同。

Next question is coming from Craig Irwin from Plug Power (sic) [ROTH MKM].

下一個問題來自 Plug Power（原文如此）[ROTH MKM] 的 Craig Irwin。

And I'm from ROTH MKM.

我來自 ROTH MKM。

I thought I hired you, Craig?

我以為我僱用了你，克雷格？

No. We've been friends a long time, Andy, but no...

不，我們已經是好朋友很久了，安迪，但不…

I don't know how to take that, Craig.

我不知道該如何接受，克雷格。

Let's stay friends. So Andy, there's obviously a really intense amount of interest out there about your ability to take your third-party hydrogen procurement cost and make that a customer costs, a direct customer cost while you bring online green hydrogen, which is obviously a much more compelling product to customers and to Plug Power. So can you maybe give us a little bit more color on the underlying mix of contracts, you said you've started roughly half the conversations. What's the average duration of the contracts that governs the pricing for your hydrogen supply agreements with these third-party customers?

讓我們保持朋友關係。安迪，顯然，人們對您是否有能力將第三方氫採購成本轉化為客戶成本、直接客戶成本，同時在線提供綠氫，這顯然是更具吸引力的。向客戶和 Plug Power 提供產品。那麼您能否給我們更多關於合約的基本組合的信息，您說您已經開始了大約一半的對話。您與這些第三方客戶簽訂的氫氣供應協議的定價合約的平均期限是多少？

And are these -- do these come up annually, do they come up typically on a mix every 3 years? How much flexibility do you have in there from the contractual position we have with people. And if we estimate simplistically that there was a burn of a couple of hundred million last year from these underwater contracts. Do you get through half of it? Do we see that half of that burn eliminated? I mean, how should we look at it?

這些是每年都會出現一次，還是通常每 3 年都會混合出現一次？從我們與人們的合約地位來看，你有多少彈性。如果我們簡單估計，去年這些水下合約的損失達數億美元。你能完成一半嗎？我們是否看到一半的燒傷被消除了？我的意思是，我們該如何看待它？

Craig, I'm going to turn that over to Sanjay. But I'll just add that there's been a recognition, and I mentioned this in my remarks, with some of our long-term industrial gas partners like Linde who have been helpful. And I'll let Sanjay go into more detail here on how we see this playing out during the next 12 to 18 months. Sanjay?

克雷格，我要把它交給桑傑。但我只想補充一點，我們已經得到了認可，我在演講中提到了這一點，我們的一些長期工業氣體合作夥伴（例如林德）也給予了幫助。我將讓 Sanjay 在這裡更詳細地介紹我們如何看待未來 12 到 18 個月的情況。桑傑？

Great. Thanks, Andy. So a couple of comments here, correct first, right? And I think let me just echo what Andy just mentioned here. There's been a lot of very constructive collaboration our hydrogen third-party suppliers. And when you think about our contracting structure with them, there are several -- actually, as it stands today, there are several contracts that actually comes to an end by '26. There are several that comes to an end by '27. And if you actually take that into consideration...

偉大的。謝謝，安迪。這裡有一些評論，首先正確，對吧？我想讓我重複一下安迪剛才提到的內容。我們的氫第三方供應商進行了許多非常有建設性的合作。當你考慮我們與他們的合約結構時，會發現有幾項合約——實際上，就目前的情況而言，有幾項合約實際上會在 26 年前結束。有幾個項目到 27 年就結束了。如果你真的考慮到這一點...

And some going to end this year...

還有一些今年就結束了...

Exactly, right? So and Craig, when you think about then our internal production that is going to be up and running by the end of the third quarter, including the Olin JV that actually covers as much as 85%.

非常正確？那麼克雷格，當你想到我們的內部生產將在第三季末啟動並運行時，包括實際上覆蓋了 85% 的 Olin 合資企業。

Now having said that, our plan here is to continue to work with some of our industrial gas partners. Make sure the pricing has improved, pricing is right, collaborate with also our customers. So it's almost like a 3-way type of a situation where -- we're trying to get that passed on to the customer. We're trying to get better pricing from our industrial gas customer and then you blend in our lower cost production from Georgia, from Tennessee, from Louisiana but I think as you really go through the second half of this year and Q4 of this year, you will see a step change in our fuel cost and the overall margin profile driven by better pricing that Andy talked about, driven by potentially lower cost coming from our third-party supplier and add on top of that our lower cost of production coming from our own internal facility, I think you will really see a step change as you think about Q3 and Q4 of this year from our fuel margin and cash burn associated with that business.

話雖如此，我們的計劃是繼續與我們的一些工業氣體合作夥伴合作。確保定價有所改善、定價正確，並與我們的客戶合作。因此，這幾乎就像一種三向類型的情況，我們試圖將其傳遞給客戶。我們正在努力從我們的工業氣體客戶那裡獲得更好的定價，然後你將我們來自喬治亞州、田納西州、路易斯安那州的低成本生產融入其中，但我認為當你真正經歷今年下半年和今年第在四季時，您將看到我們的燃料成本和整體利潤狀況發生了階躍變化，這是由安迪談到的更好的定價推動的，由我們的第三方供應商潛在的更低成本推動，此外，我們的生產成本更低來自我們的我們擁有自己的內部設施，我認為當您考慮今年第三季度和第四季度時，我們的燃油利潤率和與該業務相關的現金消耗確實會發生重大變化。

Excellent. Excellent. So that's a large piece of the equation that I really wanted to discuss, right? So last call, you mentioned that you have plans in place for a 70% reduction in cash needs in '24 versus what you saw in 2023. Obviously, rightsizing the hydrogen pricing, bringing online green hydrogen is an important piece of that. Can you maybe give us a little bit more color as far as working capital and how that contributes and then the relative contribution from price increases and the -- I know it's painful, but the headcount reductions that you've put in place?

出色的。出色的。所以這是我真正想討論的方程式的很大一部分，對嗎？在上次通話中，您提到您已製定計劃，與 2023 年相比，在 24 年將現金需求減少 70%。顯然，調整氫定價、在線提供綠氫是其中的重要組成部分。您能否為我們提供更多有關營運資本的信息，以及其如何貢獻，然後是價格上漲的相對貢獻以及——我知道這很痛苦，但是你們已經實施了裁員？

Paul, do you want to take that one?

保羅，你想拿那個嗎？

Yes. And I think there's a couple of big numbers that make it directionally a little bit more easy to follow the math. If you look at CapEx last year of north of $650 million. This year, we're cutting that number. Right now, the tentative plan is $250 million. We're trying to even get that down. So that's a pretty substantial reduction in itself. And then if you look at inventory, last year, we grew it by roughly $400 million.

是的。我認為有幾個大數字可以讓我們在方向上更容易理解數學。去年的資本支出超過 6.5 億美元。今年，我們將削減這個數字。目前，暫定計畫為2.5億美元。我們正在努力將其降低。所以這本身就是一個相當大的減少。如果你看一下庫存，去年我們的庫存增加了大約 4 億美元。

Obviously, we're not going to do that this year, so that's a $400 million improvement on its own. In addition to that, we actually think we can reduce inventory. So that will be a working capital positive. So it could be $200 million or $300 million additional. So that's -- call it, $700 million plus $400 million, that's $1.1 billion just those 2 events alone. So obviously, we expect the results to get better. The things like price increases, the cost reduction that Andy mentioned, the facility consolidations that we're working on and some of the streamlining of the processes.

顯然，我們今年不會這樣做，因此這本身就節省了 4 億美元。除此之外，我們實際上認為我們可以減少庫存。因此，這將是一個積極的營運資金。因此可能會額外增加 2 億或 3 億美元。所以，7 億美元加上 4 億美元，光是這兩件事就相當於 11 億美元。顯然，我們期望結果會變得更好。例如價格上漲、安迪提到的成本降低、我們正在進行的設施整合以及一些流程的簡化。

That will help the operating burn as well. The fuel dynamics getting better on the industry availability in our own facilities. But the biggest contributor really come from that CapEx reduction and the inventory leverage. And so those will be tremendous. And we -- as I mentioned, we're already seeing benefits of that in Q1, and we'll see it really grow very quickly as we move into the following quarters.

這也將有助於操作燃燒。我們自己的設施中的行業可用性使燃料動態變得更好。但最大的貢獻實際上來自資本支出的減少和庫存槓桿。因此，這些將是巨大的。正如我所提到的，我們已經在第一季看到了這一點的好處，當我們進入接下來的幾季時，我們將看到它確實成長得非常快。

Okay. Excellent. Excellent. And then there's been some very active conversation about the out there about the requirements for NEPA Environmental Compliance on the hydrogen plants that you're building I know these are embedded pieces of the DOE loan process. But can you maybe update everyone on the overall loan process and how NEPA is included for qualification of sites to receive funding.

好的。出色的。出色的。然後，就您正在建造的氫氣製造廠的 NEPA 環境合規性要求進行了一些非常活躍的討論，我知道這些是 DOE 貸款流程的嵌入式部分。但您能否向大家介紹整個貸款流程以及如何將 NEPA 納入獲得資金的場地資格？

So I'm going to turn it over to Sanjay. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, Craig, we expect conditional approval by the end of this month, if not sooner. But Sanjay, do you want to talk about the NEPA project?

所以我要把它交給 Sanjay。正如我在開場白中提到的那樣，克雷格，我們預計在本月底（甚至更早）之前獲得有條件批准。但是 Sanjay，你想談談 NEPA 專案嗎？

So Craig, I think the most -- the one that we're really very much focused on right now is our project in Texas, right? And one of the incremental benefit that we have there is we have done a lot of work with the developer that we worked with getting that project to where it is right now. And there's a lot of work that was done in the past that we can leverage. And obviously, we're looking to actually get that process restarted here, which is a key, as you rightfully pointed out in terms of the loan guarantee program getting that environmental permit done.

所以克雷格，我認為我們現在最關注的是我們在德克薩斯州的項目，對吧？我們在那裡獲得的增量好處之一是，我們與合作的開發人員做了很多工作，使該專案達到了目前的水平。我們可以利用過去所做的許多工作。顯然，我們希望在這裡重新啟動該流程，這是關鍵，正如您在完成環境許可的貸款擔保計劃方面正確指出的那樣。

We have a team that is exclusively focused on that. And you've heard us say this before, right, that actually, especially in case of Texas, we believe that is going to be a relatively faster process versus your standard terms that you hear about a multiyear process of getting the NEPA approval done.

我們有一個專門致力於此的團隊。您之前已經聽過我們這樣說過，對，實際上，特別是在德克薩斯州，我們相信這將是一個相對更快的過程，而您聽到的標準條款是完成NEPA 批准的多年過程。

We actually believe that, that process is something that we should be able to wrap up here in Q2, certainly by the end of Q2, leveraging all the work that has been done given the timing of where we are with the loan guarantee program, timing of when we think we can get the NEPA done, we feel very good about really being able to collaborate with the Department of Energy, especially on a landmark project like Texas, where you are using wind power, right, or using -- it's going to be one of the largest liquid green hydrogen plant that actually matches everything that we're talking about in terms of additionality to all the renewable energy credits to the PPA, we have in place from the wind energy perspective.

我們實際上相信，這個過程我們應該能夠在第二季度結束，當然是在第二季度末，考慮到我們貸款擔保計劃的進度、時間安排，利用已經完成的所有工作當我們認為我們能夠完成NEPA 時，我們對能夠真正與能源部合作感到非常高興，特別是在像德克薩斯州這樣的標誌性項目上，在那裡你正在使用風能，對吧，或者使用——它正在發展為了成為最大的液態綠色氫工廠之一，在購電協議所有可再生能源信用額的額外性方面，我們所談論的一切實際上都符合我們所討論的一切，我們從風能的角度來看已經到位。

It's going to be our 120-megawatt electrolyzer plus 45 tons liquefier, 15, and 30 and the first green hydrogen plant that probably has a lump sum turnkey EPC contract. So that's how we feel about it, Craig, and we feel pretty good about where we are with that process, what needs to be done really leveraging all the work that has been done in the past, and that's really our primary focus right now.

這將是我們的 120 兆瓦電解槽加上 45 噸液化器、15 噸和 30 噸，也是第一座可能擁有一次性交鑰匙 EPC 合約的綠氫廠。這就是我們的感受，克雷格，我們對這個過程的進展感到非常滿意，需要真正利用過去所做的所有工作來完成哪些工作，這確實是我們現在的主要關注點。

Excellent. And then this is a question that I'm not sure you can answer, but I'm going to try for it anyway. It's top of mind for a lot of people, right? So this DOE loan can fund up to 80% of the project's cost -- can you maybe give us color or some sort of understanding as far as how close to this 80% number, do you think is rational for you to receive as far as total project costs and then there's conversation out there, not just about retroactive spending, but about scope maybe being slightly wider that some of the expenses that have been incurred as far as the development costs and other associated projects might also see funding eligibility and some of these other loan packages.

出色的。這是一個我不確定你能回答的問題，但無論如何我都會嘗試。這是很多人最關心的問題，對吧？因此，能源部的這筆貸款可以為項目成本提供高達 80% 的資金——您能否給我們一些解釋或某種理解，說明您接受這個 80% 的數字有多接近？項目總成本，然後就有了討論，不僅是關於追溯支出，而且還涉及範圍可能稍寬一些，即開發成本和其他相關項目所產生的一些費用也可能符合資助資格，這些其他貸款方案。

Is that a potential opportunity for Plug as you look to finalize terms with the Department of Energy.

當您希望與能源部敲定條款時，這對 Plug 來說是一個潛在的機會嗎？

So Craig, I'm going to let Paul take the first half and let Sanjay take some of the second half here.

所以克雷格，我將讓保羅承擔上半場，並讓桑傑承擔下半場的一些時間。

Yes. I guess I'm very confident and optimistic. And the reason why is because we've worked extensively with the DOE in the last -- really, the last 1.5 years. And we've looked at projects we've deployed. We've looked at projects that we're working on. We've used those as proxies to understand what we're doing and how we're doing it, and they serve as good baselines to really have gotten to the point we're at with structuring it the way we have and thinking about how this will work.

是的。我想我非常自信和樂觀。原因是我們在過去——實際上是過去 1.5 年與能源部進行了廣泛的合作。我們研究了我們已經部署的項目。我們已經研究了我們正在進行的項目。我們使用這些作為代理來了解我們正在做什麼以及我們如何做，並且它們作為良好的基線來真正達到我們現在的目的，以我們現有的方式構建它並思考如何這會起作用。

And so I feel very good about that coming to fruition and being able to utilize the full 80%. And the understanding that we have with the DOE of how these programs work and while the costs are sourced and how it applies. And so I feel really good about that. And, Sanjay...

因此，我對這項成果的實現以及能夠充分利用 80% 感到非常高興。我們與能源部就這些計劃如何運作、成本來源及其應用方式達成了共識。所以我對此感覺非常好。還有，桑傑...

Yes. And I think, Paul, you kind of captured it. Craig, I think, look, we're obviously going through final details here, and as you rightfully pointed out, probably don't want to get into too much more detail. But having said that, there has been -- there's quite a bit of capital that have already been spent to get the project to where it is right now. So I think we feel pretty good about our position of how much money has been spent, whether it's on development effort, whether it's on all the big procurement items that actually goes in getting this project built, right?

是的。我想，保羅，你已經抓住了這一點。克雷格，我想，你看，我們顯然正在討論最終的細節，正如你正確指出的那樣，可能不想討論太多細節。但話雖如此，為了使該項目達到目前的水平，已經花費了大量的資金。因此，我認為我們對花費了多少錢的情況感到非常滿意，無論是用於開發工作，還是用於實際用於建造該項目的所有大型採購項目，對嗎？

So that scenario could unfold. As you -- as we pointed out here, given that we're having all this in-depth discussion at this point in time. I think getting into too much more detail than that at this point in time is probably not something we would want to do but understand your logic, get your point where you're coming from. And a lot of the money has been spent from our equity contribution perspective for that project in Texas, and we feel pretty good about our position there.

這樣場景就可以展開。正如您所指出的那樣，鑑於我們此時正在進行所有這些深入的討論。我認為此時此刻我們可能不想了解更多細節，但要了解您的邏輯，了解您的觀點。從我們股權出資的角度來看，很多錢都花在了德克薩斯州的那個項目上，我們對我們在那裡的地位感到非常滿意。

Your next question is coming from Bill Peterson from JPMorgan.

您的下一個問題來自摩根大通的比爾彼得森。

So if we think about 2024 revenue growth in the context of a focus on cash preservation, improving your equipment margins, service margins and so forth. Typically, you guys have discussed sort of a 1/3 first half, second -- two third, second half -- but again, thinking about the cost reduction efforts, pushing pricing, shifting away from PPAs, some business from '23 shifting to '24. How should we think about the revenue trajectories through the year, starting with the first quarter that's more than halfway through now?

因此，如果我們在關注現金保存、提高設備利潤、服務利潤等的背景下考慮 2024 年的收入成長。通常情況下，你們討論了 1/3 的上半場、下半場、三分之二、下半場，但同樣，考慮到降低成本的努力、推動定價、放棄購電協議、一些業務從 23 年轉向'24 。從現在已經過半的第一季開始，我們該如何看待全年的營收軌跡？

And then if you can kind of discuss at a higher level, like the breakouts in the larger buckets, materials handling, electrolyzers, which presumably be back-half weighted, especially you might have more -- maybe more certainly around the IRA and so forth. But anything for the -- how to think about the revenue growth this year and trajectory would be helpful.

然後，如果你能在更高的層面上進行討論，例如更大的桶子、材料處理、電解槽中的突破，這些可能是後半加權的，特別是你可能會有更多——也許更肯定是圍繞愛爾蘭共和軍等等。但對於如何思考今年的收入成長和軌跡來說，任何事情都會有所幫助。

Bill, I'm going to let Paul take that one.

比爾，我會讓保羅拿那個。

Yes. I think both in terms of normal seasonality with material handling as well as the scaling of even follow-on and new projects those factors will still keep us in that kind of the 1/3, 2/3 scenario in terms of the revenue for the year. We do expect overall, a growth year-over-year. It will probably slightly tempered from years past just given some of those dynamics of price increases and not doing the PPA sale leaseback transactions and others.

是的。我認為，無論是在物料搬運的正常季節性方面，還是在後續項目和新項目的規模方面，這些因素仍將使我們在收入方面處於 1/3、2/3 的情況。年。我們確實預計總體而言會同比增長。考慮到價格上漲的一些動態以及不進行購電協議售後回租交易等，它可能會比過去幾年略有緩和。

So I think -- but I think for the overall in terms of the first half and second half, I think using traditional trends and percentages is probably good proxies. I think overall, in terms of the sales mix, I'll talk at a more higher level. I mean I think the energy technology sets into the business, the whole swath of all of those things probably be 60% of our sales, somewhere in that range. And I think that's a strong statement showing how that business is really ramping and growing.

所以我認為 - 但我認為就上半年和下半年的整體而言，我認為使用傳統趨勢和百分比可能是很好的指標。我認為總的來說，就銷售組合而言，我會在更高的層面上談論。我的意思是，我認為能源技術融入了業務，所有這些東西可能占我們銷售額的 60%，在這個範圍內。我認為這是一個強而有力的聲明，表明該業務是如何真正蓬勃發展和成長的。

And I hope we're being conservative on the application side because we do see a lot of opportunities. And as Andy mentioned, even the programs that we've announced in the last week, I think, are fantastic signals of what our opportunities are there. And those are substantial markets. And we're seeing still a lot of interest and excitement there.

我希望我們在應用方面保持保守，因為我們確實看到了很多機會。正如安迪所提到的，我認為，即使是我們上周宣布的計劃也是我們存在機會的絕佳信號。這些都是龐大的市場。我們看到那裡仍然有很多興趣和興奮。

So hopefully, we're being conservative, but I think as we said today, those are probably the proxies that I would give you to guide, some of your thoughts on how that will play.

所以希望我們是保守的，但我認為正如我們今天所說的，這些可能是我會給你們指導的代理，你們對如何運作的一些想法。

Okay. And just as a snapshot, it's nice to see that George is up and running at Tennessee, but what is the average output per day? I believe you talked about achieving 15 tons per day out of Georgia. But just trying to get a sense for how the operations are running and what the trajectory looks like looking ahead?

好的。作為一個快照，很高興看到喬治在田納西州啟動並運行，但每天的平均產出是多少？我相信您談到了喬治亞州每天產量達到 15 噸。但只是想了解營運狀況以及未來的發展軌跡如何？

So Bill, we're fine-tuning. We produced 11 tons of the 15 out of Georgia. Tennessee, is almost back to full production at 10, 11 tons per day. I expect by mid-second quarter, we'll be putting out all 15 tons out of Georgia.

所以比爾，我們正在微調。 15 噸中我們從喬治亞州生產了 11 噸。田納西州幾乎恢復到每天 10、11 噸的滿載生產。我預計到第二季中期，我們將把全部 15 噸從喬治亞州運出。

Okay. And just one final just sort of housekeeping. Last January update, you talked about your current near-term unrestricted cash of around -- above $100 million. What is -- what is the near-term cash position today if you're able to say?

好的。最後只是一種家事服務。去年 1 月的更新中，您談到了您目前的近期不受限制的現金約為 1 億美元以上。如果你能說的話，今天的近期現金部位是多少？

Go ahead.

前進。

Yes. I mean it's probably north of $300 million, something in that range, plus or minus. I mean it's -- we're -- the first couple of months are very encouraging in terms of what we've seen from tailing the spend. And we're still -- we're laser-focused on narrowing CapEx even further and deferring when we can and doing all the things that we talked about to drive that down. So.

是的。我的意思是，它可能超過 3 億美元，在這個範圍內，上下浮動。我的意思是，就我們在追蹤支出方面所看到的情況而言，前幾個月非常令人鼓舞。我們仍然專注於進一步縮小資本支出，並在可能的情況下推遲，並採取我們談到的所有措施來降低資本支出。所以。

Next question is coming from George Gianarikas from Canaccord Genuity.

下一個問題來自 Canaccord Genuity 的 George Gianarikas。

So I have sort of an existential question. As you recover in 2024 and digest some of the new rules from treasury. What sort of focus should we expect from Plug Power long term? Which areas of the hydrogen market or geographies probably offer the best returns on capital as we focus beyond 2024.

所以我有一個存在主義的問題。當你在 2024 年復甦並消化財政部的一些新規則時。從長遠來看，我們應該對 Plug Power 抱持什麼樣的關注？我們將重點放在 2024 年後的氫市場或地區的哪些領域可能提供最佳資本回報。

That's actually a good question, George. And I think that -- I think what you'll see is that during the -- and this is actually we spent -- we have been spending a lot of time on this issue. I think through this decade that the energy business with electrolyzers as well as generation of hydrogen will probably represent 2/3s of our revenue during the rest of this decade.

這實際上是一個好問題，喬治。我認為——我想你會看到的是，在這段時間——實際上我們花了——我們在這個問題上花了很多時間。我認為在這十年中，電解槽能源業務以及氫氣生產可能將占我們在這十年剩餘時間內收入的 2/3。

What we believe is that come 2030, what you're going to see is accelerated growth in our application business, especially our stationary products. And not to go way out there, George, but you said to me existential. I think by '22 -- by '32, '33, applications will start probably dominating again as more and more hydrogen is readily available. I think during the next 2 to 3 years on the energy sector, our Europe will actually dominate our electrolyzer sales and then ultimately, I think on that energy sector, the U.S. and Europe will start balancing more out.

我們相信，到 2030 年，您將看到我們的應用業務，尤其是固定產品的加速成長。喬治，不要走太遠，但你對我說存在主義。我認為到 22 年、32 年、33 年，隨著越來越多的氫氣容易取得，應用可能會再次佔據主導地位。我認為在未來 2 到 3 年的能源領域，我們的歐洲實際上將主導我們的電解槽銷售，然後最終，我認為在能源領域，美國和歐洲將開始更多地平衡。

And that would be kind of what our internal view is as we look out through '35. But obviously, our crystal ball is much better for '24, '25. So it's the energy sector, it's Europe for electrolyzers. It's the U.S. for applications. Hope that helps.

當我們展望 35 年時，這就是我們的內部觀點。但顯然，我們的水晶球在 24 年、25 年要好得多。這是能源產業，是電解槽的歐洲。申請的是美國。希望有幫助。

And maybe as a follow-up, you announced, I think, about 1.5 weeks ago, a contract to support a major U.S. auto OEM in material handling. Curious as to whether you can share any more detail. I think you mentioned the first quarter of 25% that will be operational. Any additional detail?

也許作為後續行動，我認為大約 1.5 週前，您宣布了一份為美國一家主要汽車 OEM 提供物料搬運支援的合約。很好奇您是否可以分享更多細節。我想你提到了第一季 25% 的資金將投入營運。還有其他細節嗎？

It's a new customer. It's a U.S.-based customer. It's -- when we look at it, is a perfect opportunity because it's a campus, which will include their suppliers, which also will be using hydrogen-based products, which will allow us to continue to grow. I hope during the coming quarters, we'll be able to tell you more, but it's a big deal. I think that there's almost a dozen hydrogen fueling stations inside the building.

這是一個新客戶。這是一位美國客戶。當我們看到它時，這是一個完美的機會，因為它是一個園區，其中將包括他們的供應商，這些供應商也將使用氫基產品，這將使我們能夠繼續發展。我希望在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們能夠告訴您更多信息，但這是一件大事。我認為大樓內有近十幾個加氫站。

And this is pretty typical how new buildings come up. George if I think about BMW in Spartanburg, where we started with about 75 products and you'll have initial run of those products and testing during the end. In this case, at this project at the end of the year, which duplicates what we've seen elsewhere with new auto facilities, and then it could rapidly grow. At BMW, for example, I think we have over 600 fuel cells today.

這就是新建築的典型出現方式。喬治，如果我想到斯巴達堡的寶馬，我們從大約 75 種產品開始，您將在最後對這些產品進行初步運行和測試。在這種情況下，在今年年底的這個項目中，它複製了我們在其他地方看到的新汽車設施，然後它可以迅速成長。以寶馬為例，我認為我們現在擁有 600 多個燃料電池。

So I think what you'll see is this campus will continue to grow and I think will become bigger than BMW ultimately because of all the supplier base integrated there.

所以我認為你會看到這個園區將繼續發展，我認為最終會比寶馬更大，因為所有供應商基地都整合在那裡。

Your next question is coming from Skye Landon from Redburn.

您的下一個問題來自雷德本的斯凱·蘭登。

Andy. In the base case, my first question is the 70% cash burn reduction guidance, does this assume any CapEx for new hydrogen projects in Texas or New York during 2024? Or are these projects now in the base case of 2025 start?

安迪.在基本案例中，我的第一個問題是減少 70% 現金消耗的指導，這是否假設 2024 年德克薩斯州或紐約的新氫項目有任何資本支出？或者這些項目現在是否在 2025 年啟動的基本情況下？

And then secondly, on the outlook for the electrolyte business, when do you now expect to start seeing major projects reaching contract-ready stages? And when do you expect to see order flow coming in, I mean we've got production auctions going on in Europe at the moment. Hopefully, we get some clarification on the rules in the U.S. But I'd be interested to hear your take on whether this is a first half '24 or second half '24 or 2025 timing?

其次，關於電解液業務的前景，您現在預計什麼時候開始看到主要專案達到合約就緒階段？你預計什麼時候會看到訂單流進來，我的意思是我們目前在歐洲正在進行生產拍賣。希望我們能對美國的規則做出一些澄清。但我很想聽聽您對這是 24 年上半年還是 24 年下半年或 2025 年時間的看法？

I will let Sanjay take the electrolyzer first and then I'll turn it over to Paul for capital usage.

我會讓 Sanjay 先拿走電解槽，然後我會把它交給 Paul 以供資本使用。

Thank you, Andy. Skye, again, on the electrolyzer side, right, so I'm sure you guys saw we announced that we actually did multiple basic engineering design package with some large customers in Europe in 2024. We have actually done a lot of those basic engineering design package with customers throughout the world, if you would, even in 2023, right?

謝謝你，安迪。 Skye，再次，在電解槽方面，對，所以我相信你們看到我們宣布，我們實際上在2024 年與歐洲的一些大客戶一起完成了多個基礎工程設計包。我們實際上已經完成了很多基礎工程設計如果您願意，即使在 2023 年，也可以與世界各地的客戶打包，對吧？

So when you think about our book of business or the work that we're doing within the basic engineering design package that is actually approaching almost 4 gigawatts when you really think about that. Now some of these project needs to get to FID, but we're working hand-in-hand with the customers, helping them think through the design, helping them think to what's the optimal way to think about the plant build out and that's where having built Georgia having had 40-megawatt and the world's largest prime electrolyzer in the Western Hemisphere actually goes a long way to support customers in terms of thinking through that basic engineering design package as well.

因此，當您考慮我們的業務手冊或我們在基本工程設計包中所做的工作時，當您真正考慮這一點時，實際上接近 4 吉瓦。現在其中一些項目需要最終投資決定，但我們正在與客戶攜手合作，幫助他們思考設計，幫助他們思考什麼是考慮工廠建設的最佳方式，這就是在喬治亞州建造了西半球40 兆瓦的世界上最大的主要電解槽，實際上在思考基本工程設計方案方面也為客戶提供了很大的支持。

Now when it comes to the revenue, for 2024, we actually have a pretty robust backlog when you think about it, right? We have a lot of 5-megawatt projects already in the backlog. We also do have some large projects that we're already executing that's in the backlog. We do have one megawatt system in the backlog. So '24 is really about executing, really about delivering on that existing backlog and puts us in a really good position to be able to do a few things. One, convert the inventory into cash. This business is really going to be our cash generation in 2024 as well as drive the top line growth. Second piece, you're going to see in 2024. As we execute in this backlog, margins will not be as great in Q1. It will improve in Q2, but margins as well as cash flow will again improve in the second half of the year as you start to see costs going down, as you also start to see higher price opportunity flow through that P&L.

現在說到 2024 年的收入，你想想看，我們實際上有相當強勁的積壓訂單，對吧？我們有很多 5 兆瓦項目已積壓。我們也確實有一些已經在執行的大型專案處於積壓工作中。我們確實有 1 兆瓦的系統處於積壓狀態。所以 '24 確實是關於執行，真的是關於交付現有的積壓工作，並使我們處於一個非常有利的位置，能夠做一些事情。一、將庫存轉化為現金。這項業務確實將成為我們 2024 年的現金來源，並推動營收成長。第二部分，您將在 2024 年看到。當我們執行此待辦事項時，第一季的利潤率不會那麼高。第二季會有所改善，但下半年利潤率和現金流將再次改善，因為你開始看到成本下降，同時你也開始看到損益表中的價格機會更高。

So for 2024, it's not so much about really going and winning more business, but we do feel pretty good about a lot of these projects where we have done basic engineering design package on a 100-megawatt plus project that starts to actually become concrete. There's many projects going into FID by the middle of this year. But let's be clear, right, real revenue opportunity on these large projects, whether it's in Europe, whether it's in the U.S., whether it's in Australia, that is really going to be 2025 and beyond the opportunity, giving us a fantastic base of that backlog, very predictable revenue, very predictable margin.

因此，對於2024 年，並不是真正去贏得更多業務，而是我們確實對許多這樣的專案感覺很好，我們已經在一個100 兆瓦以上的專案上完成了基本的工程設計包，並開始真正變得具體。到今年年中，許多項目將進入最終投資決定。但讓我們明確一點，這些大型專案的真正收入機會，無論是在歐洲、美國還是澳大利亞，都將在 2025 年及以後出現，這為我們提供了一個絕佳的基礎積壓，非常可預測的收入，非常可預測的利潤。

And in the near term, even to support growth in 2025, we're also very focused on our 5-megawatt product line both for U.S. as well as for Europe, and that's where you will still see new book of business materialize for us. Supporting that growth in 2025.

在短期內，即使是為了支援 2025 年的成長，我們也非常專注於美國和歐洲的 5 兆瓦產品線，您仍然會看到我們的新業務實現。支持 2025 年的成長。

Again, we feel very good about cash generation, strong visibility. This year is really about executing on this existing backlog for us to give us a robust performance in the electrolyzer business in 2024. Paul?

同樣，我們對現金產生能力和可見度都非常滿意。今年實際上是為了執行現有的積壓訂單，以便我們在 2024 年在電解槽業務中取得強勁的業績。保羅？

Yes. And I guess a couple of things. One, on the hydrogen investments we have in the current plan, is predominantly the retention and finalization of the Georgia plant that we've completed. It's the funding for the Louisiana program we have with Olin that we're developing and building and rolling out. And it's kind of residual projects that we had opened at the end of last year that we're paying now for given extended terms for some of the vendor program. On Texas and New York, we already had spent a lot of money.

是的。我猜有幾件事。一是我們目前計劃中的氫能投資主要是保留和最終確定我們已建成的喬治亞州工廠。這是我們與奧林共同開發、建造和推出的路易斯安那項目的資金。這是我們去年年底啟動的剩餘項目，我們現在正在為某些供應商計劃的特定延長期限付費。在德州和紐約州，我們已經花了很多錢。

We've kind of retailed and tempered that in the near term until we turn on the right financing solutions. But given the money that we've spent, it puts us in a good position that as we launch those the new solution that we've launched would fund the majority, if not all of that incremental spend. So as we turn that on in the second half or into next year, we expect the majority of that to be covered with new financing.

我們在短期內對此進行了零售和調整，直到我們推出正確的融資解決方案。但考慮到我們花費的資金，這使我們處於有利的地位，當我們推出這些新解決方案時，我們推出的新解決方案將為大部分（如果不是全部）增量支出提供資金。因此，當我們在下半年或明年啟動這項計劃時，我們預計其中大部分將由新融資來支付。

I mean we do have already, for example, in stock, things like the rectifiers, Paul, as well as the -- much of the electrolyzer, many of the electrolyzers as well as the fact that liquefiers -- electrifier...

我的意思是，我們確實已經有庫存了，例如整流器、保羅，以及——大部分電解器，很多電解器以及液化器——電氣器…

Storage equipment. Yes, there's a lot of things we already have.

儲存設備。是的，我們已經擁有很多東西了。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is coming from Eric Stine from Craig-Hallum.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum 的 Eric Stine。

I'll just stick with one here towards the end of the call. So for '24, I can appreciate not guiding given the focus more on the cash side and the expense side. But just curious, longer term, when you balance that versus so many commercial opportunities, what's going on with green hydrogen. When do you think that what year? Is it '25?

通話結束時我會繼續留在這裡。因此，對於 24 年，鑑於更多關注現金方面和費用方面，我可以理解不提供指導。但只是好奇，從長遠來看，當你平衡這一點與如此多的商業機會時，綠色氫會發生什麼。你認為是哪一年的什麼時候？是25年嗎？

Is it '26? When you get back on that more traditional growth path, the one you've been on for several years growing at a pretty rapid clip.

是26年嗎？當你回到更傳統的成長道路時，你已經走上幾年的道路會以相當快的速度成長。

I'm going to let Paul take that, Eric. But I think Paul said in his remarks, we didn't expect zero growth this year. That was part of Paul's remarks. And I think if I was going to separate it out the energy business, we expect to grow healthy this year. There's always certain risk and timing on the project deployments. In the application business, I would expect that come '25 as we have focused on getting our costs in line this year, but I would expect '25, and I'm going to let Paul and I think he probably made reference to it in his comments, we would expect that things get looking back to traditional performance.

我會讓保羅接受這個，艾瑞克。但我認為保羅在演講中說，我們預計今年不會出現零成長。這是保羅講話的一部分。我認為，如果我要把它從能源業務中分離出來，我們預計今年會健康成長。專案部署總是存在一定的風險和時間安排。在應用程式業務中，我預計會在 25 年到來，因為我們今年的重點是控製成本，但我預計會在 25 年到來，我將讓 Paul 和我認為他可能會在根據他的評論，我們預計事情會回到傳統的表現。

But this year, I think in my opening comments, I really made it clear we are looking to continue to expand and grow this business, but at better pricing and better margins. Paul, do you want to add?

但今年，我認為在我的開場白中，我確實明確表示我們希望繼續擴大和發展這項業務，但以更好的定價和更高的利潤率。保羅，你想補充一下嗎？

Yes, I think everything you said is right Andy. And I just -- I guess one thing I would add is that we don't want to overpromise anything this year, but I certainly hope and believe that there's lots of outside opportunities. So as we work through the year and on position ourselves for 2025 we think there's definitely a chance that can -- even though we're kind of tempering incremental growth, we think there's upside and certainly posturing towards even better growth as we move into '25.

是的，我認為安迪你說的一切都是對的。我只是 - 我想我要補充的一件事是，我們今年不想過度承諾任何事情，但我當然希望並相信有很多外部機會。因此，當我們全年努力並為 2025 年做好定位時，我們認為絕對有機會——儘管我們在某種程度上緩和增量增長，但我們認為，隨著我們進入“ 25.

So Eric, if I think about the electrolyzer business, nobody has a facility like we have. When you look about the ability to build plants, and I think that Sanjay can tell you for folks that we've been doing the design with our talent in the Netherlands who have been deeply involved in this activity really is well respected. And so I believe we've made the investments in the infrastructure to support large-scale buildouts. And that really puts us in a unique strategic position. versus the competition out there.

艾瑞克，如果我考慮電解槽業務，沒有人擁有像我們這樣的設施。當你考慮建造工廠的能力時，我認為桑傑可以告訴大家，我們一直在與荷蘭的人才一起進行設計，他們深入參與了這項活動，真的很受尊重。因此，我相信我們已經對基礎設施進行了投資，以支持大規模擴建。這確實使我們處於獨特的戰略地位。與那裡的競爭對手相比。

Next question is coming from Jordan Levy from Truist Securities.

下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Jordan Levy。

I appreciate all the details. Maybe just to go back to kind of that last comment on the electrolyzer side, I recognize you've kind of built up the scale for the long term here and it makes a lot of sense. But I'm just curious, as we think about going through this year, how do you -- and maybe this is for Sanjay, how do you think about optimizing volumes coming out of that plant while you're trying to reduce inventories and sort of what is the right run rate at this point in time to balance that equation.

我很欣賞所有的細節。也許只是回到電解槽的最後評論，我認識到您已經在這裡建立了長期規模，這很有意義。但我只是很好奇，當我們考慮今年的情況時，你會如何考慮——也許這對桑傑來說，當你試圖減少庫存和分類時，你如何考慮優化該工廠的產量此時平衡該等式的正確運行率是多少。

Great question. That's something we've been spending, obviously, a lot of time thinking through it, right? So this year, again, it's really about executing on the backlog. And there is a lot of inventory already in-house, right? We're going to make sure that we use through that. So this is really a focus on, just to think about it, right? There's -- we have quite a bit of 5-megawatt product that's already in the backlog, as I said.

很好的問題。顯然，這是我們花了很多時間思考的事情，對吧？所以今年，重點還是要執行積壓的工作。而且內部已經有很多庫存，對嗎？我們將確保我們通過它來使用。所以這確實是一個重點，只是想一想，對嗎？正如我所說，我們有相當多的 5 兆瓦產品已積壓。

We have quite a bit of 1-megawatt product that's already in the backlog. And with some of the strategic partners, we also do some strategic stack sales, right? So when you really think about it, this year is not about optimizing the capacity utilization or the labor overhead per se. It's really more about using what we've already bought. All the procurement that has been made to execute on these projects, right?

我們有相當多的 1 兆瓦產品已積壓。我們也與一些策略夥伴一起進行一些策略性堆疊銷售，對嗎？因此，當你認真思考時，你會發現今年並不是優化產能利用率或勞動力開銷本身。這實際上更多的是使用我們已經購買的東西。所有採購都是為了執行這些項目而進行的，對吧？

So the way you should think about it is Q1 is going to start out somewhat similar to what the Q4 was like. But I think you'll see a step change in that revenue as you go into Q2, Q3 and Q4. Number one, you will see cash generation out of this business in every single one of these quarters because we are burning to the existing inventory. And then you will actually see a step change, not just in the revenue but also in the margin as you start to go into the second half of the year, as the cost comes down as we work on this new stack design that actually also allows us to lower the cost of that stack that will start helping in Q3 then cash generation with the improved margin profile, we'll see a step change in Q3, another step change in Q4 as well for this year.

所以你應該這樣想：第一季的開始將與第四季的情況有些相似。但我認為，進入第二季、第三季和第四季時，您會看到收入發生階躍變化。第一，你會在這些季度的每個季度看到這項業務產生的現金，因為我們正在燃燒現有的庫存。然後，當你開始進入下半年時，你實際上會看到一個階躍變化，不僅在收入方面，而且在利潤方面，因為隨著我們致力於這種新的堆疊設計，成本下降了，實際上也允許我們降低了堆疊的成本，這將在第三季開始幫助，然後透過改善利潤狀況來幫助現金生成，我們將在第三季看到一個階躍變化，今年第四季也會出現另一個階躍變化。

So it's not about really needing to find more opportunity for electrolyzer business in 2024. It's really about working hand-in-hand with customers, making sure that we go from what we refer to as the factory acceptance test when the unit goes to the site then you got to do the site acceptance test and we've actually been having a lot of wonderful collaboration with a lot of different customers. In some cases, things have been challenging.

因此，這並不是說真正需要在 2024 年為電解槽業務尋找更多機會。這實際上是與客戶攜手合作，確保設備到達現場時通過我們所說的工廠驗收測試然後你必須進行現場驗收測試，我們實際上已經與許多不同的客戶進行了許多精彩的合作。在某些情況下，事情充滿挑戰。

We're learning together, but I think we've come a long way here, which I think puts us in a pretty good position to deliver what is going to be a great cash generation and a really changing margin trajectory as you go through the year in this business. That is not to say that we're not going to do -- continue to do new bookings. You will see new bookings coming in on our 5-megawatt product line, both for U.S. as well as Europe that will support growth in 2025.

我們正在一起學習，但我認為我們已經走了很長一段路，我認為這使我們處於一個非常有利的位置，可以在您經歷在這個行業的一年。這並不是說我們不會繼續進行新的預訂。您將看到我們的 5 兆瓦產品線在美國和歐洲都有新的預訂，這將支持 2025 年的成長。

And then just think about the opportunity that we have with this basic engineering design package approaching 4 gigawatts, that really puts us in a position where not just '25, but we're looking at very good backlog build going into '26 and beyond as well making this a very stable, predictable, high margin as well as the cash-generating business for us.

然後想想我們擁有接近 4 吉瓦的基本工程設計包的機會，這確實使我們處於一個不僅是 25 年的位置，而且我們正在考慮進入 26 年及以後的非常好的積壓建設這使我們成為一項非常穩定、可預測、高利潤以及創收現金的業務。

That's really helpful. Appreciate that. And then maybe just as a quick follow-up, not to belabor the timing on the DOE here, and I know there's only so much you guys can say, but I'm just trying to get a sense of kind of at this point in the cycle with the term sheet and all of that. Is the ball sort of in the DOE's court at this point? Or are you still at a point where you're in constant communication back and forth with them. I'm just curious to get where we are in the process.

這真的很有幫助。感謝。然後也許只是作為一個快速的後續行動，而不是在這裡詳細說明能源部的時間安排，我知道你們能說的只有這麼多，但我只是想在這一點上獲得一種感覺條款清單的周期以及所有這些。此時此刻，球是否已掌握在能源部的手中？或者你仍然處於與他們不斷來回溝通的狀態嗎？我只是好奇我們在這個過程中所處的位置。

So as I mentioned in my comments, we do expect -- this is March, and we do expect conditional approval by the end of this month. There will be negotiations then. And I think our view is that by the end of the third quarter, it should be written and it should be finalized.

正如我在評論中提到的，我們確實預計——現在是三月份，我們確實預計在本月底之前獲得有條件批准。屆時將會進行談判。我認為我們的觀點是，到第三季末，應該編寫並最終確定。

Next question today is coming from Sherif Elmaghrabi from BTIG.

今天的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的謝里夫·埃爾馬格拉比 (Sherif Elmagrabi)。

Andy. So I guess a bit of a nuanced question, but I noticed the average price for fuel cell was significantly higher in Q4. So my question is, are we already seeing an impact from pricing efforts? Or is that still more of a '24 story? And this quarter may have just been a mix shift to bigger fuel cells?

安迪.所以我想這是一個微妙的問題，但我注意到第四季燃料電池的平均價格明顯更高。所以我的問題是，我們是否已經看到定價工作的影響？或者這更像是一個 24 小時的故事？這個季度可能只是向更大燃料電池的混合轉變？

Yes. In Q4, it was probably more mix. We tend to sell a lot more Class 1s in Q4 often. So that helps in terms of the overall pricing structure. But I think as you look at '24 is when you'll see more of that impact and probably more so in Q2, as Andy alluded to.

是的。在第四季度，可能更加混合。我們往往在第四季銷售更多的 1 級產品。因此，這對整體定價結構有所幫助。但我認為，當你回顧 24 年時，你會看到更多這種影響，而且可能在第二季度更明顯，正如安迪提到的那樣。

Next question is coming from Amit Dayal from H.C. Wainwright.

下一個問題來自 H.C. 的 Amit Dayal。溫賴特。

Andy. Just one quick one from me on the DOE loan, right? So given the focus on the operational and margin improvements versus aggressive sales growth for 2024. And based on just your comments a little bit earlier, should we assume that the 2024 execution plan is not really dependent on this coming through for you in 2024 of this facility.

安迪.我只是簡單地寫了一篇關於能源部貸款的文章，對嗎？因此，考慮到 2024 年營運和利潤率的改善與積極的銷售成長相比，我們是否應該假設 2024 年的執行計劃並不真正依賴您在 2024 年實現的這一目標？設施。

Just that would help basically give us a sense of what the cash needs just overall for the business that you can support with the available resources?

這基本上可以幫助我們了解您可以用可用資源支援的業務整體現金需求是什麼？

Yes. So Amit, operationally, we're not dependent upon the DOE loan for '24. We will, once the DOE loan is finalized, move ahead more aggressively, especially in our Texas activity and that because we've already made significant investments in Texas, we see opportunities even have some capital coming from the DOE to support that activity.

是的。因此，阿米特，從操作上來說，我們不依賴能源部 24 年的貸款。一旦能源部貸款最終確定，我們將更加積極地推進，特別是在德克薩斯州的活動中，因為我們已經在德克薩斯州進行了大量投資，我們看到甚至有機會從能源部獲得一些資金來支持該活動。

So we look at it -- a lot of the -- when you think about 80/20, we feel a good deal, for example, in Texas, we've already made the capital investments.

因此，我們會考慮很多方面，當你想到 80/20 時，我們會覺得很划算，例如，在德州，我們已經進行了資本投資。

Your next question is coming from Ameet Thakkar from BMO Capital Markets.

您的下一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 Ameet Thakkar。

I guess just from a starting point, what sort of -- kind of revenue in '24 in gross margin in '24? Is that from this time?

我想從一個起點來看，24 年的毛利率是多少？是從這個時候開始的嗎？

Go ahead, Paul.

繼續吧，保羅。

We haven't really given specific numbers, I guess, to be candid with you. I think what we've alluded to is that we definitely expect growth of 2023. You'll see -- you'll definitely see growth off the revenue numbers. And obviously, we're anticipating a pretty significant improvement on the margin front. So that's where we stand.

坦白說，我想我們還沒有給出具體的數字。我認為我們已經提到的是，我們肯定預計 2023 年會出現成長。你會看到——你肯定會看到收入數字的成長。顯然，我們預期利潤率將出現相當顯著的改善。這就是我們的立場。

Okay. And then since we're kind of waiting on the DOE to move forward with Texas and New York, I guess, is there any kind of impact to your of fuel margins in '24 from any off-takers that won't be getting fuel from those plants?

好的。然後，由於我們正在等待能源部與德克薩斯州和紐約州取得進展，我想，如果任何承購商無法獲得燃料，那麼 24 年的燃料利潤率是否會受到任何影響來自那些植物？

No. I'll let Sanjay take that. But no -- not in the plan.

不，我會讓 Sanjay 拿走。但沒有——不在計劃之內。

No. I mean we don't have any of that impact whatsoever in '24.

不，我的意思是我們在 24 年沒有任何影響。

But there are offtakers there from both those plants?

但這兩家工廠都有承購商嗎？

Yes. Again, I think the way we've been focused on, right? Like, for example, I think this was a question we used to get a lot. How many offtakers do you guys have in Georgia, and we've always said for the reason to build Georgia was for us to really help the North American network. Second, really lower the cost more than really trying to optimize the price, right? So that's always been our focus. But when you think about our plant in Texas and New York, there's a lot of discussion in the plant in Texas, there was some offtake, right, but that doesn't kick in 2024, which is why you should actually see no impact whatsoever from that.

是的。我再說一遍，我們一直關注的方式，對嗎？舉例來說，我認為這是我們過去經常遇到的問題。你們在喬治亞州有多少承購商，我們一直說建立喬治亞州的原因是為了真正幫助北美網路。其次，真正降低成本比真正嘗試優化價格更重要，對嗎？所以這一直是我們的重點。但是當你想到我們在德克薩斯州和紐約的工廠時，德克薩斯州的工廠有很多討論，有一些承購，對吧，但這不會在2024 年開始，這就是為什麼你實際上應該看不到任何影響從那。

Next question is coming from Dushyant Ailani from Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Dushyant Ailani。

I just had one quick question on the lateralizes tax on the cost cutting that you guys mentioned. Could you talk a little bit about where you're seeing those cost cuts and maybe just walk us through that a little bit?

我只是有一個關於你們提到的成本削減的橫向稅的快速問題。您能否談談您在哪些方面看到了這些成本削減，也許只是向我們介紹一下？

Yes. So it's -- we mentioned cost cuts. It's really manufacturing process changes to allow the stack to be produced in a much simpler fashion. So I think if you've done a tour a facility it actually helps increase it time for manufacturing the stack and it's really -- it's not dependent upon suppliers and it's dependent upon on process improvements.

是的。所以我們提到了削減成本。這實際上是製造流程的改變，使得堆疊能夠以更簡單的方式生產。因此，我認為，如果您參觀過工廠，它實際上有助於增加製造堆疊的時間，而且它確實不依賴供應商，而是依賴流程改進。

That we've made, which really simplifies the stack and had some really dramatic cost reductions on the level of materials we require and the assembly technique.

我們所做的，這確實簡化了堆疊，並且在我們所需的材料水平和組裝技術方面確實顯著降低了成本。

Our next question is coming from Andrew Percoco from Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的安德魯·佩爾科科。

Great. Well, just maybe sort of a housekeeping item. Product gross margins in the fourth quarter came down quite a bit. Was there any noncash impact embedded in that number in the fourth quarter? And then I have a follow-up after that.

偉大的。嗯，也許只是一種家事。第四季產品毛利率有較大下降。第四季的數字是否包含任何非現金影響？之後我會跟進。

Go ahead, Paul.

繼續吧，保羅。

Yes, there was probably -- I'm going to estimate roughly $60 million or so noncash valuation adjustments. That's a GAAP basis. Obviously, we still have those assets and our intentions are to leverage them into cash in 2024. But -- so that was part of it. And then the other part was lower absorption when you have on the equipment side, when you have that dynamic that affects equipment margins.

是的，我估計可能會有大約 6000 萬美元左右的非現金估值調整。這是公認會計準則的基礎。顯然，我們仍然擁有這些資產，我們的目的是在 2024 年將它們轉化為現金。但是，這就是其中的一部分。然後，當你在設備方面，當你有影響設備利潤的動態時，另一部分是較低的吸收。

And as we've announced, a lot of those restructuring activities actually were specifically targeted towards labor and overhead in the production activities. And so that should yield benefits as we move into '24. So that was -- I guess those are some of the key things in lower absorption to your question on equipment margins.

正如我們所宣布的，許多重組活動實際上專門針對生產活動中的勞動力和管理費用。因此，當我們進入 24 世紀時，這應該會帶來好處。所以，我想這些是降低您對設備利潤問題的關注度的一些關鍵因素。

Okay. That's helpful. And then as my follow-up, and I think most of my other questions related to kind of cash flow and balance sheet dynamics have been answered. So I'll just maybe shift to a longer-term question on the PPA environment, I think, as others have already noted on the call, there's a lot of demand for clean electricity, AI data centers, other electrification efforts. And I think what you're seeing across the developer landscape is that returns are actually increasing. In some cases, PPA prices are increasing as a result.

好的。這很有幫助。然後作為我的後續行動，我認為與現金流量和資產負債表動態相關的大多數其他問題都已得到解答。因此，我可能會轉向有關購電協議環境的長期問題，我認為，正如其他人在電話會議中已經指出的那樣，對清潔電力、人工智慧資料中心和其他電氣化工作的需求很大。我認為你在整個開發商領域看到的是回報實際上正在增​​加。在某些情況下，購電協議價格會因此上漲。

What does that mean for your unit economics of your business beyond 2024 and 2025. I know you secure a lot of your PPAs for the plant that you're working on today. But do the unit economics of green hydrogen in the U.S. work if PPA prices don't fall from here?

這對 2024 年和 2025 年之後的企業單位經濟效益意味著什麼。我知道您為今天正在建造的工廠獲得了大量購電協議。但如果購電協議價格不從現在開始下跌，美國綠氫的單位經濟效益還能發揮作用嗎？

Maybe Andy, I can take that.

也許安迪，我可以接受。

Yes. Go ahead, Sanjay.

是的。繼續吧，桑傑。

So Andrew, I think we're glad that we've secured the PPA pricing in Texas, as you know, right? And I think even in Georgia, given I think we have that deal with sort of the overall natural gas price market dynamics that actually PPA -- that power pricing is playing out pretty well in our favor as well, right? So we have some other discussion where power prices are going to actually remain pretty attractive in some of the even other development effort, we still have going on. Obviously, the focus here is, as we've already talked about, what we're trying to do in '24, we're prioritizing 2 key projects here.

安德魯，我想我們很高興我們已經獲得了德克薩斯州的購電協議定價，正如你所知，對吧？我認為即使在喬治亞州，我認為我們也處理了整體天然氣價格市場動態，實際上是購電協議——電力定價也對我們有利，對吧？因此，我們也進行了一些其他討論，在某些甚至其他開發工作中，電價實際上仍將保持相當有吸引力，我們仍在繼續。顯然，正如我們已經討論過的，這裡的重點是我們在 24 年試圖做的事情，我們在這裡優先考慮兩個關鍵項目。

And then you really think about all this in the second half of 2025. Having said that, we've always said, right? As long as the power prices stay between that $30 to $40 a megawatt hour level, all in fully loaded, green hydrogen economics work. And look, and I think, Andrew, we've all been through this cyclicality of the power market, right, where the rates impacts have had impact from the levelized cost of electricity. But directionally, we believe that the power price is -- in any given year, it could go up, any given year it could go down. But directionally, our view still remains that the power prices probably will continue to go down. But does it have to go down dramatically from these levels here? For the green hydrogen economics to make sense in the U.S., probably not. That's number one.

然後你會在 2025 年下半年真正考慮這一切。話雖如此，我們總是說，對吧？只要電價保持在每兆瓦時 30 至 40 美元的水平，所有這些都在滿載的綠氫經濟中發揮作用。安德魯，我想，我們都經歷過電力市場的週期性，對吧，電費的影響受到平準化電力成本的影響。但從方向來看，我們認為電價在任何特定年份都可能上漲，任何特定年份都可能下降。但從方向來看，我們仍然認為電價可能會繼續下跌。但它是否必須從這些水平大幅下降？綠氫經濟在美國可能沒有意義。這是第一名。

And number two, we also have been very thoughtful about really being in the right location, right opportunity set as we think about some of this green hydrogen opportunity also in Europe as well, where we can leverage low-cost hydro, complementing that with low-cost renewable electricity. So look, and if there is any relief from the inflationary environment. If anything, you will probably start to see the cost of the wind turbine and also go down at some point, that should have a benefit and that hopefully is enough to offset the rise in the interest rate environment and the return hurdle that some of these developers are looking for, right?

第二，我們也一直非常認真地考慮真正處於正確的位置，正確的機會集，因為我們也在考慮歐洲的一些綠色氫能機會，在那裡我們可以利用低成本水力發電，並用低成本水力發電作為補充。- 可再生電力成本。那麼看看通膨環境是否有任何緩解。如果有的話，您可能會開始看到風力渦輪機的成本，並且在某個時候也會下降，這應該會帶來好處，並且希望足以抵消利率環境的上升以及其中一些項目的回報障礙。開發商正在尋找，對嗎？

So we really don't need the price to go down a lot. But again, our sort of working view at this point in time is when you really think another 5 years out, directionally, levelized cost of renewable electricity should still continue to go down, but certainly not at the rate that we've seen in the last 10 years.

所以我們確實不需要價格大幅下降。但同樣，我們目前的工作觀點是，你真的認為再過 5 年，可再生電力的定向平準化成本仍應繼續下降，但肯定不會以我們在 2017 年看到的速度下降。過去10年。

And Andrew, I would just add that a bigger picture, I've mentioned work we've done with the leading consulting firm for hydrogen, and they'll tell you they expect in the U.S. at least 50% of hydrogen will be green in 2030. And as you know, in Europe, they have very, very stringent goals where I think the number is 43% by 2030 has to be green. So there are other dynamics that come into play.

安德魯，我想補充一點，從更大的角度來看，我提到了我們與領先的氫諮詢公司所做的工作，他們會告訴你，他們預計在美國至少 50% 的氫將是綠色的。2030年。如你所知，在歐洲，他們有非常非常嚴格的目標，我認為到2030 年43% 的目標必須是綠色的。因此還有其他因素在發揮作用。

Our next question is coming from Kashy Harrison from Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Piper Sandler 的 Kashy Harrison。

So I guess my first one, you're highlighting $75 million of expected savings in 2024. And I fully appreciate that reductions are extremely difficult for the people involved. So not try to be -- not trying to -- well, basically, what I'm asking is, why aren't you cutting something more aggressive? Why aren't you targeting something more aggressive?

所以我想我的第一個問題是，您強調了 2024 年預計將節省 7500 萬美元。我完全理解，減少開支對於相關人員來說是極其困難的。所以，不要試圖——不是試圖——好吧，基本上，我要問的是，為什麼你不削減一些更具侵略性的東西呢？為什麼你不瞄準更激進的目標？

Because your OpEx at this point is 42% of revenues and that's up from 22% in 2019. And so why aren't you trying to cut OpEx in half this year?

因為您目前的營運支出佔收入的 42%，高於 2019 年的 22%。那麼為什麼不嘗試將今年的營運支出削減一半呢？

I think, Kashy, because it may look good for some folks in 2024, but it will be a huge mistake in 2028. Those same folks are critical for us to achieving the gross margin targets. Those same folks are critical for improving our customer experience. Those same folks are important to building out plants like Texas. We model this so that the company can become operationally cash flow positive in '25.

Kashy，我認為，因為這對某些人來說可能在 2024 年看起來不錯，但在 2028 年將是一個巨大的錯誤。這些人對我們實現毛利率目標至關重要。這些人對於改善我們的客戶體驗至關重要。這些人對於建造像德州這樣的工廠也很重要。我們對此進行建模，以便公司能夠在 25 年實現正營運現金流。

But chainsaw -- what was that, chainsaw got chainsaw jack. I don't think he built great business and businesses much more than the Excel spreadsheet that you put in front of yourself.

但是電鋸——那是什麼，電鋸有電鋸千斤頂。我認為他建立的偉大企業和企業並不比你放在自己面前的 Excel 電子表格更重要。

Okay. Fair enough. And then my follow-up question, maybe a bit more mechanical in nature. Can you walk us through how the change from sale leasebacks to direct purchase works with the customers within Material Handling, I think there was a comment in the [K] that now the customers are dealing directly with the banks. And so I was wondering if you could just help us think through exactly how the sales process works today versus how it did prior.

好的。很公平。然後是我的後續問題，本質上可能有點機械化。您能否向我們介紹一下物料處理領域的客戶如何從售後回租到直接購買的轉變，我認為 [K] 中有評論說現在客戶正在直接與銀行打交道。因此，我想知道您是否可以幫助我們準確思考現在的銷售流程與先前的銷售流程是如何運作的。

So I guess, as a preface, that industry, a lot of customers like to lease their asset solutions. And so they lease their tractor trailers, they lease their forklifts, they lease their racking equipment is just the way they like to access that market. Historically, we've offered both options. We've offered customers the ability to buy the equipment and some do that and then we've offered options where we lease it to them because it's eligible for investment tax credits it becomes -- it has been a bit more challenging to monetize those benefits when we offer that leasing solution and is limited in terms of the banks and participants you can go to.

所以我想，作為前言，那個行業，很多客戶喜歡租賃他們的資產解決方案。因此，他們租賃拖拉機拖車、堆高機、貨架設備，這正是他們進入該市場的方式。從歷史上看，我們提供了這兩種選擇。我們為客戶提供了購買設備的能力，有些人這樣做了，然後我們提供了將設備租賃給他們的選擇，因為它有資格獲得投資稅收抵免——將這些好處貨幣化有點更具挑戰性當當我們提供租賃解決方案時，您可以聯繫的銀行和參與者受到限制。

So historically, for those customers, they would subscribe to it, and we would deploy it, and then we would take that (inaudible) that up and sell it to a bank and then monetize the benefits. Because where we are in the maturity curve, we've had to use a lot of the cash in those transactions to kind of back to the investment tax credit aspects. And so going forward, those customers will probably still lease the solutions, but we've been pushing them towards working with the banks themselves and us being more of the middle man to facilitate that.

因此，從歷史上看，對於這些客戶來說，他們會訂閱它，我們會部署它，然後我們會將其（聽不清楚）出售給銀行，然後將收益貨幣化。因為我們處於成熟曲線的位置，我們不得不在這些交易中使用大量現金來恢復投資稅收抵免方面。因此，展望未來，這些客戶可能仍會租賃解決方案，但我們一直在推動他們與銀行本身合作，而我們則更多地充當中間人來促進這一點。

And I would just add that when we started early on, another dynamic was it was newer technology. So it also kind of made banks -- banks don't like new banks. They like things that have been around for 100 years, and they can go to the book and open up and turn to the section for cars or trucks or forklifts and there hasn't been a fuel cell section. The fact that we've been doing this for 10 years and broadly as we have, and there are so many banks that are involved now, the comfort level with the customers and the banks on this technology is substantially broader and more understood.

我想補充一點，當我們早期開始時，另一個動力是更新的技術。所以它也某種程度上造就了銀行──銀行不喜歡新銀行。他們喜歡已經存在了 100 年的東西，他們可以打開書本，翻到汽車、卡車或堆高機部分，但那裡沒有燃料電池部分。事實上，我們已經這樣做了 10 年，而且範圍廣泛，而且現在有很多銀行參與其中，客戶和銀行對這項技術的舒適程度要廣泛得多，也更容易理解。

And so that makes it easier. And we've built a fairly big portfolio of banks that we can now work with. And so now when we put the customers to those banks, it becomes a much easier conversation for them to put those programs in place. And so that's what we're working towards is that we're no longer the middleman that we're just the facilitator and we still treat it as a CapEx sale for us, whether the customer is buying it or they're having their bank buy it and lease it to them, and that's what we're pushing for.

這樣就更容易了。我們已經建立了相當大的銀行投資組合，現在可以與之合作。因此，現在當我們將客戶介紹給這些銀行時，他們就可以更輕鬆地實施這些計劃。因此，我們正在努力實現的目標是，我們不再是中間人，我們只是促進者，我們仍然將其視為我們的資本支出銷售，無論客戶是購買它還是他們擁有自己的銀行購買並出租給他們，這就是我們所推動的。

We reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Andy for any further closing comments.

我們的問答環節結束了。我想將發言權交還給安迪，以徵求更多的結論。

Thank you, Kevin, and I just want to reiterate sentence or 2 from my opening statement. As the company moves into 2024, we are focused on fortifying our financial foundation, but also sustaining continual expansion. No we are resolved to propel the hydrogen economy, but it's also matched by our strategic shift towards capitalizing on existing investments and a cautious approach to cash management. And this is -- and let me be clear, it sets the stage for persistent growth and innovation. I thank everyone for the time today and looking forward to talking to many of you over the next months. Have a good day.

謝謝你，凱文，我只想重申我的開場白中的第二句話。隨著公司進入 2024 年，我們的重點是鞏固我們的財務基礎，同時保持持續擴張。不，我們決心推動氫經濟，但這也與我們向利用現有投資和謹慎的現金管理方法的策略轉變相匹配。讓我明確一點，這為持續成長和創新奠定了基礎。我感謝大家今天抽出時間，並期待在接下來的幾個月與你們中的許多人交談。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路廣播到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。