普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2022 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Plug Power First Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this call is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 Plug Power 2022 年第一季度財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，此通話正在錄音中。

I will now turn the conference over to our host, Teal Hoyos, Director of Marketing and Communications. Thank you. You may begin.

我現在將把會議交給我們的主持人，營銷和傳播總監 Teal Hoyos。謝謝你。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2022 first quarter update call. This call will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operations or of our financial position or other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A -- and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝你。歡迎來到 2022 年第一季度更新電話。本次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包含對我們未來經營業績或我們的財務狀況或其他前瞻性信息的預測。我們打算將這些前瞻性陳述包含在 1934 年證券交易法第 27A 節和第 21E 節中包含的前瞻性陳述的安全港條款中。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements and such statements should not be read or understood as a guarantee -- results.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的期望非常重要。然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被閱讀或理解為對結果的保證。

Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2021, as well as other reports we file from time to time with the SEC.

此類陳述受到風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果或業績與討論的結果或業績存在重大差異，這些因素包括但不限於我們年度報告表格中第 1A 項風險因素下討論的風險和不確定性截至 2021 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K，以及我們不時向 SEC 提交的其他報告。

These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day on which the statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information.

這些前瞻性陳述僅在做出陳述之日發表，我們不承諾或打算在本次電話會議後或由於新信息而更新任何前瞻性陳述。

At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug's CEO, Andy Marsh.

在這一點上，我想將電話轉給 Plug 的首席執行官 Andy Marsh。

Well, thank you, Teal, and thank you for joining Plug's first quarter earnings call. You can find a detailed review of the quarter in our shareholder letter.

好吧，謝謝你，蒂爾，感謝你參加 Plug 的第一季度財報電話會議。您可以在我們的股東信中找到該季度的詳細回顧。

But let me give a few thoughts to start this call. I recognize that macroeconomic conditions are challenging. Like everyone, we have seen some of the challenges in the supply chain and the price of natural gas. Plug's future is not based on the economy today, but the future. But let me highlight the present is very bright. In the present, how many companies will increase by over 80% this coming year in revenue. In the future for hydrogen fuel cells as outlined by Bloomberg and others is a unique $10 trillion opportunity.

但是，讓我提出一些想法來開始這個電話。我認識到宏觀經濟條件具有挑戰性。和大家一樣，我們已經看到了供應鍊和天然氣價格方面的一些挑戰。 Plug的未來不是基於今天的經濟，而是基於未來。但讓我強調現在是非常光明的。目前來看，有多少公司來年收入增長80%以上。正如彭博社和其他人所概述的那樣，氫燃料電池的未來是一個獨特的 10 萬億美元的機會。

All of our activities are tied to this opportunity and tied to a world that is energy independent and green. I'll intend that ultimately green and energy independence are synonymous. And as an indicator of our present is our sales funnel for electrolyzers.

我們所有的活動都與這個機會息息相關，並與一個能源獨立且綠色的世界息息相關。我打算最終將綠色和能源獨立同義。作為我們現在的一個指標，我們的電解槽銷售漏斗。

The funnel is approximately $50 million. We've committed to book 1 gigawatt this year in electrolyzers, we will most likely be increasing this goal soon. How about the futures? I'm sometimes asked, can this business scale?

漏斗的價值約為 5000 萬美元。我們已承諾今年在電解槽中預訂 1 吉瓦，我們很可能很快會增加這一目標。期貨呢？我有時會被問到，這個業務可以擴展嗎？

Let me give you a simple example based on Q1 financials by telling our gross margin improvement story. Let's start with products. Our GenDrive product gross margins is over 30%. The cost of our new products will continue to come down as we experience our traditional 25% learning curve for fuel cells and electrolyzers.

讓我通過講述我們的毛利率改善故事來給你一個基於第一季度財務的簡單例子。讓我們從產品開始。我們的 GenDrive 產品毛利率超過 30%。隨著我們體驗到燃料電池和電解槽的傳統 25% 學習曲線，我們的新產品成本將繼續下降。

All our present proxy at today's volumes will have a minimum of 30% gross margins. Our service and learnings are being implemented and demonstrate now and will cut our service costs ultimately by 45%. With deployment of our green hydrogen network, 70 tons which will be available by year's end, our cost will be 1/3 today's cost.

我們目前所有的代理在今天的銷量將至少有 30% 的毛利率。我們的服務和學習正在實施和展示，最終將我們的服務成本降低 45%。隨著我們綠色氫網絡的部署，到年底將有 70 噸可用，我們的成本將是今天成本的 1/3。

And our PPA, which includes assets we can ultimately own will be net positive. These numbers align with our 2025 goal of $3 billion in revenue, 20% EBITDA and 17% operating income. This is the equation for success. We're building the category king with a clear strategic and tactical plans, great customers' employees that's unmatched in the industry.

我們的 PPA，包括我們最終可以擁有的資產，將是淨正數。這些數字符合我們 2025 年 30 億美元收入、20% EBITDA 和 17% 營業收入的目標。這是成功的方程式。我們正在通過明確的戰略和戰術計劃、業內無與倫比的優秀客戶員工來打造品類之王。

I've never been more positive about the fit between our strategic and tactical plans as I feel today. Paul, Sanjay and I are now ready to take your questions.

正如我今天所感受到的，我對我們的戰略計劃和戰術計劃之間的契合度從未如此積極。保羅、桑杰和我現在準備好回答你的問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Chris Souther with B. Riley.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Chris Souther 和 B. Riley。

Nice to see some of the nonmaterial handling stuff really take off here. Could you give us a sense of how that $45 million breaks down between electrolyzer on-road and any other end markets there?

很高興看到一些非物質處理的東西在這裡真正起飛。您能否告訴我們這 4500 萬美元是如何在公路上的電解槽和那裡的任何其他終端市場之間分解的？

I'm going to let -- I'm going to let Paul answer that question.

我要讓——我要讓保羅回答這個問題。

Yes. I would say it's -- and there will be more detail in the queue, Chris. But it's about -- probably roughly 1/3 of electrolyzers, but that pipeline is growing and scaling. That business will be a lot bigger in the second half given the ramp of the pipeline and the production capacity. The other stuff is mainly the acquisitions.

是的。克里斯，我會說是- 隊列中會有更多詳細信息。但它大約 - 可能大約是電解槽的 1/3，但該管道正在增長和擴展。鑑於管道和產能的增加，該業務在下半年將大得多。其他的主要是收購。

Okay. Got it. And then just another one on the fuel margin improvements. It seems like you're continuing to be very positive on the long-term trajectory there. And if we're looking at kind of 1/3 of the cost for green hydrogen versus kind of what we're paying today, how should we kind of feather that in as the capacity ramps up?

好的。知道了。然後是燃料餘量改進的另一個方面。看起來你對那裡的長期發展軌跡仍然非常積極。如果我們看到綠色氫的成本是我們今天支付的成本的 1/3，隨著產能的增加，我們應該如何適應呢？

Do you think that's kind of an immediate when capacity comes online, we should kind of assume that lower pricing? Or is during kind of the ramp-up? Is it going to be -- take some time to kind of hit that type of rate?

您是否認為當容量上線時會立即出現這種情況，我們應該假設價格較低？或者是在加速過程中？會不會——需要一些時間才能達到那種速度？

Chris, I'm going to let Sanjay take this one.

克里斯，我要讓桑傑拿走這個。

Chris -- good question, right? So obviously, the cost will go down as the plant ramps up. That's how it plays out. But having said that, we've said by the end of 2023, we're looking at breakeven, getting to cash flow positive from operations stand by 2024.

克里斯——好問題，對吧？所以很明顯，隨著工廠的增加，成本會下降。這就是它的表現。但話雖如此，我們已經說過，到 2023 年底，我們正在尋求盈虧平衡，到 2024 年將實現運營現金流為正。

So you can kind of think about as the 17 tons come online, that will really reduce our blended cost in 2023. That cost will further improve in 2024. And as you go to 2025, we feel very confident that we get to that corporate gross margin target of 30%. That's really how it plays out from a cadence standpoint.

所以你可以想像一下，隨著 17 噸的上線，這將真正降低我們在 2023 年的混合成本。該成本將在 2024 年進一步提高。到 2025 年，我們對達到該公司總收入充滿信心保證金目標為 30%。從節奏的角度來看，這確實是它的表現。

And one more thing, if I may add, right? I think like in the month of April, our plant in Tennessee actually operated at 93% since the expanded capacity, and that is going to help with our overall blended cost of molecule as well. So that's what you will see happen. As the plants come online, we will gradually ramp up.

還有一件事，如果我可以補充的話，對吧？我認為就像 4 月份一樣，我們在田納西州的工廠自擴大產能以來實際上以 93% 的速度運行，這也將有助於我們降低分子的整體混合成本。這就是你將看到的情況。隨著工廠上線，我們將逐步增加產能。

And once the plants are at that 92% of the capacity from the utilization standpoint, you'll see the full benefit of the reduction in the fuel cost.

從利用率的角度來看，一旦工廠達到 92% 的產能，您就會看到燃料成本降低的全部好處。

Our next question comes from James West of Evercore ISI.

我們的下一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 James West。

Andy, I'm curious about the recent MOU you signed with Olin Corporation to take away some of their byproduct hydrogen. I know the initial JV looks to be relatively small, but they produce, if I'm correct, a lot more hydrogen than the initial JV suggests. It seems like this could be game changing. Could you talk a little bit about kind of your strategic thinking here, the rationale and how it came about?

安迪，我很好奇你最近與奧林公司簽署的諒解備忘錄，以帶走他們的一些副產品氫。我知道最初的合資企業看起來相對較小，但如果我是正確的，它們生產的氫氣比最初的合資企業建議的要多得多。看起來這可能會改變遊戲規則。你能在這裡談談你的戰略思維，基本原理以及它是如何產生的嗎？

James, we do think it's an important step in building out our network. Olin has a waste stream, which is probably over 350 tons of hydrogen per day. That's significant. And this relationship is really just the beginning.

詹姆斯，我們確實認為這是建立我們網絡的重要一步。奧林有一個廢物流，每天可能有超過 350 噸氫氣。這很重要。而這種關係真的只是一個開始。

And when you start looking at the cost, it is equivalent to under $0.02 a kilowatt hour for electricity, plus on top of that, the complexity of the plant is much, much simpler. We think the relationship with Olin will become a critical element in building out our hydrogen network across the U.S., which will position us to expand even rapidly.

當你開始考慮成本時，它相當於每千瓦時不到 0.02 美元的電費，此外，工廠的複雜性要簡單得多。我們認為，與 Olin 的關係將成為我們在美國建立氫能網絡的關鍵因素，這將使我們能夠更快地擴張。

This is, I think -- Sanjay, I think we feel we can get these plants up by the first quarter of next year, which is a real -- which will be really beneficial for our costs. Sanjay, what have I missed?

這是，我認為 - 桑傑，我認為我們認為我們可以在明年第一季度之前將這些工廠建成，這是一個真實的 - 這將對我們的成本產生真正的好處。桑傑，我錯過了什麼？

No, I think you've pretty much summed it up, Andy. But James, as you said, we're obviously pretty pleased with this partnership. More to come. And as Andy said, there's a pretty big substantial volume. And again, this is one of those opportunities where which will be a pretty critical part of building this North American green hydrogen network together with a partner like Olin here.

不，我想你已經總結得差不多了，安迪。但是詹姆斯，正如你所說，我們顯然對這種夥伴關係非常滿意。更多即將到來。正如安迪所說，有相當大的數量。再說一次，這是與像奧林這樣的合作夥伴一起建立北美綠色氫網絡的一個非常關鍵的機會之一。

Right. Okay. And then maybe, Sanjay, if I can just ask why you chose -- or they -- or you guys chose the St. Gabriel, Louisiana plant to start the project? Was there something unique about that? Or is that just there's available capacity?

對。好的。然後也許，桑傑，如果我可以問你為什麼選擇 - 或者他們 - 或者你們選擇路易斯安那州聖加布里埃爾工廠來啟動這個項目？有什麼獨特之處嗎？還是只是有可用容量？

Well, first off, this will be a 15-ton plant, right, given the stage of where it is, availability of feed gas, potential to actually make that feed gas also green and so that's the rationale in terms of why we decided to work on that one there.

嗯，首先，這將是一個 15 噸的工廠，對，考慮到它所處的階段、原料氣的可用性、實際上使原料氣也變成綠色的潛力，這就是我們決定的理由在那里工作。

This is a discussion we've been having for a long time, James, as you can imagine. It materialized here just recently, but it's the first one and hopefully many more to come going forward.

正如你可以想像的那樣，詹姆斯，這是我們長期以來一直在討論的問題。它最近才在這裡實現，但它是第一個，並且希望未來還會有更多。

Our next question comes from Colin Rusch with Oppenheimer & Company.

我們的下一個問題來自 Oppenheimer & Company 的 Colin Rusch。

Could you talk a little bit about how you're -- could you talk a little bit about the evolution of your pricing strategy relative to adoption rates? And any sort of cost management that you're doing, obviously, inflation is impacting a lot of folks.

你能談談你的情況嗎——你能談談你的定價策略相對於採用率的演變嗎？顯然，您正在進行的任何成本管理都會影響到很多人。

And certainly, you guys can't be fully immune. But just trying to think about how you guys are approaching this with your customers to kind of throw the needle.

當然，你們不能完全免疫。但只是想想想你們是如何與客戶一起處理這個問題的。

Yes. That's a good question, Colin. So if I take a step, we are in a -- always hesitant to talk too much about pricing. But I would say that we look at the steps we're taking in hydrogen, we are more focused on managing our own cost to support our customers.

是的。這是個好問題，科林。因此，如果我邁出一步，我們就會 - 總是不願過多地談論定價。但我想說的是，我們著眼於我們在氫氣方面採取的步驟，我們更專注於管理我們自己的成本以支持我們的客戶。

We find that product pricing for -- and fuel cell are reflective of the increase in costs in the marketplace. And there was so much of our service is associated with reducing our cost that I think our service model is evolving to the point where Chris Soriana, who runs our service group, we clearly see the 45%, we're really looking to drive it down even further. So customers are -- I'm not going to say like price increases, but a more understanding and open price increasing.

我們發現燃料電池和燃料電池的產品定價反映了市場成本的增加。我們的服務中有很多與降低成本相關，我認為我們的服務模式正在發展到運行我們服務組的克里斯·索里亞納（Chris Soriana），我們清楚地看到了 45%，我們真的希望推動它進一步下降。所以客戶是——我不會說喜歡漲價，而是更理解和開放的漲價。

Excellent. And then just thinking about the new facility and the ramp there. I guess, obviously, it looks like there's an awful lot of new automation in, and I'm wondering if you can talk about kind of initial yields with that automation and what you're seeing so far as you to start to map that up and get prepared.

優秀的。然後想想那裡的新設施和坡道。我想，顯然，它看起來有很多新的自動化，我想知道你是否可以談論這種自動化的初始收益率以及你在開始映射時所看到的並做好準備。

Yes. I think that's -- and I don't know if we kept it in the letter. But when we look at the stack cost for electrolyzers, the automation will allow that cost to be reduced by 70%. So it is significant.

是的。我認為是——而且我不知道我們是否在信中保留了它。但是，當我們查看電解槽的堆棧成本時，自動化將使該成本降低 70%。所以意義重大。

And that, Colin, really makes our electrolyzers extremely competitive. It's why during the letter -- during the -- my opening statement, I expressed such confidence in the 1 gigawatt, which will be quite profitable for Plug. And on top of that, I really do expect that number to increase as the year goes on.

科林，這確實使我們的電解槽極具競爭力。這就是為什麼在信中——在我的開場白中——我表達了對 1 吉瓦的信心，這對 Plug 來說將是相當有利可圖的。最重要的是，我真的希望這個數字隨著時間的推移而增加。

We're looking at projects alone that are 1 gigawatt in size. And quite honestly, it's a nice market because people really aren't in a position in the free world to produce at this level.

我們只關注 1 吉瓦的項目。老實說，這是一個不錯的市場，因為在自由世界中，人們真的無法在這個水平上生產。

Our next question comes from Bill Peterson with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的比爾·彼得森。

My first question is on policy. And I guess, specifically in Europe, you probably saw last week the Repowering EU the commissioner as well as a lot of industry CEOs signed a declaration to basically massively increase the electrolyzer capacity even within the next, call it, 3, 4 years. I guess my question is that something that Plug feels need to be a part of in terms of having local manufacturing in Europe?

我的第一個問題是關於政策的。而且我想，特別是在歐洲，你可能上週看到 Repowering EU 專員以及許多行業 CEO 簽署了一項聲明，即使在接下來的 3 年、4 年內，基本上也將大幅增加電解槽的產能。我想我的問題是，就在歐洲進行本地製造而言，Plug 認為需要參與其中嗎？

And I guess what does Plug need to do specifically in Europe to, I guess, obtain its fair share of the 30 drilling opportunity in Europe?

而且我猜Plug需要在歐洲做些什麼來獲得它在歐洲30個鑽井機會中的公平份額？

So one of the hidden secrets, Bill, is that I probably invested more in fuel cells and electrolyzers in the past year than anyone else. I think that uniquely positions us. We do have discussions. And if you think about our brand launch the other week, we were well represented by Belgium and the Port of Antwerp as well as many other entities. We have relationships with Lhyfe, which are experts in sourcing low-cost renewables in Europe. I do think this weekend, I was with folks from our HYVIA JV down in Miami. And when you look at that relationship, there is a good chance that we will be looking to putting electrolyzer capacity in the -- I'm not saying this rate so let me step back, Bill. When you start thinking about making [NVAs] we are seriously looking at making that in Europe, which will make fuel cells or electrolyzers. And look, we've made the next round, the JV in the European funding and the amount of funding that JV can get can be substantial to support the activity.

所以比爾，一個隱藏的秘密是，在過去的一年裡，我在燃料電池和電解槽上的投資可能比其他任何人都多。我認為這對我們來說是獨一無二的。我們確實有討論。如果你想想我們在前一周推出的品牌，比利時和安特衛普港以及許多其他實體都很好地代表了我們。我們與 Lhyfe 建立了合作關係，後者是在歐洲採購低成本可再生能源的專家。我確實認為這個週末，我和我們 HYVIA JV 在邁阿密的人們在一起。當你看到這種關係時，我們很有可能會考慮將電解槽容量納入 - 我不是說這個速度，所以讓我退後一步，比爾。當您開始考慮製造 [NVA] 時，我們正在認真考慮在歐洲製造，這將製造燃料電池或電解槽。看，我們已經進行了下一輪，歐洲資金中的合資企業以及合資企業可以獲得的資金數量可以大量支持這項活動。

I would not be light about the U.S. either Bill. Last week, I met with 3 senators from fossil fuel states here in the United States. All of them are thinking about how they can move their economies to hydrogen economies in the future. And I can tell you one of those senators who has been getting a lot of press time is very, very bullish on making sure that part of the climate bill includes substantial extension of the ITC for fuel cells and hydrogen as well as the production tax credit.

我也不會對美國輕描淡寫。上週，我在美國會見了三位來自化石燃料州的參議員。他們都在考慮如何在未來將經濟轉向氫經濟。我可以告訴你，其中一位獲得大量新聞時間的參議員非常非常看好確保氣候法案的一部分包括大幅延長燃料電池和氫的 ITC 以及生產稅收抵免.

So for my time in D.C., I'm probably much more bullish than other folks because quite honestly, we were meeting with the folks who probably are the moderates and the debate and all of them are strong, strong supporters of hydrogen and fuel cells.

所以對於我在華盛頓的那段時間，我可能比其他人更樂觀，因為老實說，我們會見的人可能是溫和派和辯論者，他們都是氫和燃料電池的堅定支持者。

And I guess maybe sticking closer to home. I'm actually here in Long Beach (inaudible) I know Plug has a decent presence here. But as there's a number of your sort of peers in the hydrogen space, pretty clearly the hydrogen is very much of interest here at the show.

我想也許會離家更近。我實際上在長灘（聽不清）我知道 Plug 在這裡有不錯的存在。但由於在氫氣領域有許多同行，很明顯氫氣在展會上非常有趣。

I know you're talking in your shareholder letter to share more on your potential strategy in the second half. But I guess in light of the clear interest, what is -- I guess, -- you said in the past, I think, 2 quarters ago, you don't really want to be providing to an OEM to somebody else to monetize it.

我知道你在你的股東信中談論的是你在下半年的潛在戰略。但我想鑑於明顯的興趣，什麼是 - 我想， - 你在過去說過，我想，在 2 個季度前，你真的不想向 OEM 提供給其他人以將其貨幣化.

But what can Plug do uniquely in a partnership? Would it be also not only provided the fuel cell, but also the fuel itself. I'm just kind of curious what is Plug looking to do in the heavy-duty space.

但是，Plug 可以在合作夥伴關係中做些什麼獨特的事情呢？是否不僅提供燃料電池，還提供燃料本身。我只是有點好奇 Plug 想在重型領域做什麼。

Bill, I think if you look at the model we've used with HYVIA and the model with HYVIA is that we brought our technology. They brought their technology, combining them together to offer a product rapidly to the market. And I also want somebody who has sales channels. And I think that's really important for the future also.

比爾，我認為如果你看一下我們與 HYVIA 一起使用的模型，而與 HYVIA 一起使用的模型就是我們帶來了我們的技術。他們帶來了他們的技術，將它們結合在一起，迅速向市場提供產品。我還想要有銷售渠道的人。我認為這對未來也非常重要。

So we have people we're working with. We spent a lot of time on this issue. I've always been maybe not first in making deals in certain areas. But we've always made, I think, smart deals when it comes to how we entered Europe, how we entered Asia, how we entered Australia, and I think that I think patience will pay off for Plug.

所以我們有我們正在合作的人。我們在這個問題上花了很多時間。在某些領域，我可能一直不是第一個做交易的人。但我認為，在我們如何進入歐洲、如何進入亞洲、如何進入澳大利亞時，我們總是做出明智的交易，我認為耐心將為 Plug 帶來回報。

And I think I think you'll be hearing more quite in the second half of the year, as said in the earnings letter. And I can tell you we meet every week on our progress in this area.

正如收益信中所說，我認為你會在下半年聽到更多消息。我可以告訴你，我們每週都會開會討論我們在這方面的進展。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Leo Mariani with KeyBanc.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 KeyBanc 的 Leo Mariani。

Great. I was hoping you could expand a little bit. And I think if I heard you right, you made a comment that you're looking at projects currently on the electrolyzer side that are 1 gigawatt in size. Did I hear that right?

偉大的。我希望你能擴大一點。我想如果我沒聽錯的話，你發表評論說你正在研究目前在電解槽方面的項目，其規模為 1 吉瓦。我沒聽錯嗎？

You did hear that right, Leo. And PEM is ideal for that. Let me take a step back. Do you realize that -- if you did a gigawatt project like that, it's probably 6.5 football fields, alkaline. And with PEM, it's about 40 yards of a football field. That's one of the distinct advantages of PEM. When you start really looking at the total cost of ownership, headwinds hands down.

你沒聽錯，利奧。而 PEM 是理想的選擇。讓我退後一步。你是否意識到——如果你做一個像這樣的千兆瓦項目，它可能是 6.5 個足球場，鹼性的。使用 PEM，它大約是 40 碼的足球場。這是 PEM 的顯著優勢之一。當您開始真正考慮總擁有成本時，就會遇到不利因素。

Right. Okay. I guess that was -- so it sounds like it would be a large-scale potential power project that you're in negotiations on.

對。好的。我想那是 - 所以聽起來這將是一個你正在談判的大型潛在電力項目。

It is. And we have more than 1 negotiations on.

這是。而且我們有超過 1 次談判。

Okay.

好的。

And let me just mention, Leo, negotiations and discussions, it's not an over -- some of the discussions -- none of the discussions we're having in this area is overnight. I personally have been in discussions on this for 14 months.

讓我提一下，Leo，談判和討論，這還沒有結束——一些討論——我們在這個領域進行的討論都不是一夜之間的。我個人已經對此進行了 14 個月的討論。

Okay. And I also just wanted to touch base on margins. So certainly, just kind of noticing that your total gross margin was a little weaker here in first quarter versus fourth quarter. Could you maybe just give a little color on sort of what the main drivers were there. And then additionally, how do you expect to see margins progress during '22? Do you think you'll see margins turn back positive by the end of the year?

好的。而且我也只是想觸及利潤的基礎。所以當然，只是注意到你的總毛利率在第一季度比第四季度要弱一些。您能否對主要驅動因素進行一些說明。此外，您希望在 22 年期間看到利潤率的進展情況？你認為到今年年底你會看到利潤率轉正嗎？

Paul, you want to take that one?

保羅，你想拿那個嗎？

Sure. So the first thing is if you look at the sales volume, it was down sequentially, and that's because of the seasonality of our business. So we always do about 1/3 of the volume in the first half. Q1 is always the lowest version of that. It's just a natural phenomenon in the material handling business.

當然。所以第一件事是如果你看銷量，它是連續下降的，這是因為我們業務的季節性。所以我們總是在上半年做大約 1/3 的交易量。 Q1 始終是最低版本。這只是物料搬運行業的一種自然現象。

It's also a phenomenon of scaling rapidly the way we are with some of these new markets and products. And so they -- right now, they're going to be quite heavier in the second half just because of the passage of time and scaling up that pipeline.

這也是我們在這些新市場和產品中快速擴展的一種現象。所以他們 - 現在，他們將在下半年變得更重，只是因為時間的流逝和擴大管道。

So with that, my equipment revenues is down sequentially against Q4. So just on an apples-and-apples basis, you have a lower mix of higher-margin business there. Having said that, we've got more positive activities going on in 8 years that I've been with this company. We're scaling a number of new products, which takes time to ramp and scale them up.

因此，與第四季度相比，我的設備收入環比下降。因此，僅在蘋果和蘋果的基礎上，您在那裡的利潤率較高的業務組合較低。話雖如此，與我在這家公司工作的 8 年相比，我們開展了更多積極的活動。我們正在擴展一些新產品，這需要時間來提升和擴展它們。

As they ramp and scale, as Andy alluded to, they'll certainly be in that 30% gross margin profile. We've got the fuel activities, which we've talked about extensively, including on this call. I don't think people really appreciate the fact that it's a step function change when you could generate that molecule at 40% of the costs were paid today. That's just dramatic, right?

正如安迪所暗示的那樣，隨著它們的增長和規模擴大，它們肯定會達到 30% 的毛利率。我們已經開展了燃料活動，我們已經廣泛討論了這些活動，包括在這次電話會議上。我不認為人們真的很欣賞這樣一個事實，即當您可以以今天支付的 40% 的成本生成該分子時，這是一個階躍函數變化。這只是戲劇性的，對吧？

So that's really exciting and the progress that we're making there in programs like we're doing with Olin really allow us to even accelerate that. And then -- not only are we shipping products out with a substantially improved reliability profile. We have extensive capabilities to go back and retrofit the units inside an application and get those benefits. So we've got a tremendous amount of resources, more than we've ever had focus on reliability and going back and putting in improved stack software, improved batteries, different components that will really step function change that cost curve with units which is why Andy said just within a short period of time, we're going to be reducing that cost by over 45%.

所以這真的很令人興奮，我們在與 Olin 合作的項目中取得的進展確實讓我們能夠加速這一進程。然後——我們不僅出貨的產品可靠性得到了顯著提高。我們擁有廣泛的能力來回溯和改造應用程序中的單元並獲得這些好處。因此，我們擁有大量的資源，比以往任何時候都更加關注可靠性，並且回過頭來改進堆棧軟件、改進電池、真正階梯式功能的不同組件會隨著單位的變化而改變成本曲線，這就是為什麼安迪說，在很短的時間內，我們將把成本降低 45% 以上。

So all of those activities are actively ongoing in conjunction with growing by more than double this quarter from last year. So despite the growth, which is hard enough to navigate, we're doing all of those activities. So I'm really excited, as Andy is about all the prospects of what's happening and how this is going to start to transition in a very short period of time, you'll see it through the course of this year.

因此，所有這些活動都在積極進行，本季度比去年增長了一倍以上。因此，儘管增長很難駕馭，但我們正在開展所有這些活動。所以我真的很興奮，因為安迪是關於正在發生的事情的所有前景以及這將如何在很短的時間內開始轉變，你會在今年看到它。

If you look at the 2/3 sales volume that means we're going to be doing more sales in the last 6 months of this year than we did all of last year, just in the context. So that's pretty substantial in terms of volume and a lot of that means it's going to be very heavily concentrated in product, which is where I guess the best margin profile. So it should be very accretive and will be very accretive as we move through the year.

如果您查看 2/3 的銷售額，這意味著我們在今年最後 6 個月的銷售額將超過去年全年，僅在上下文中。因此，就數量而言，這是相當可觀的，其中很多意味著它將非常集中在產品上，這是我認為最好的利潤率分佈的地方。因此，它應該非常具有增值性，並且隨著我們這一年的發展將非常具有增值性。

The next question comes from Eric Stine with Craig Hallum.

下一個問題來自 Eric Stine 和 Craig Hallum。

Well, maybe just to start, you announced the offtake with Walmart as part of the green hydrogen strategy. That was great to see. But if we think longer term, and I know by 2028, the 1,000 tons per day goal. What is the right amount that you think you should have under offtake agreements?

好吧，也許剛剛開始，您宣布與沃爾瑪合作，作為綠色氫戰略的一部分。很高興看到。但如果我們從長遠考慮，我知道到 2028 年，每天 1000 噸的目標。根據承購協議，您認為您應該擁有多少合適的金額？

I mean, is there a certain percentage you want to have to be able to sell at spot, I guess, for lack of a better way to say it. Or do you really want to maximize that amount that's under contract?

我的意思是，我想，由於沒有更好的方式來表達，您是否希望能夠在現貨銷售一定比例。還是您真的想最大化合同規定的金額？

So Craig, let me -- let Sanjay take that one.

所以克雷格，讓我——讓桑傑拿走那個。

Great, Eric. Good question. Look, I think we touched on it a little bit on our last call as well. We don't want to sell out the entire capacity, right? Because the way we're thinking about building this green hydrogen generation network is, it's going to be a force majeure resilient network that is going to make sure that green hydrogen is economical, ubiquitous. So nobody should ever really worry about where the hydrogen comes from as they plan to adopt more and more fuel cell applications, right? So the number that we have been targeting and we've been internally discussing and thinking about is between 70% to 80% of that capacity we do want to have under long-term contracts, but we absolutely want to have that 20% to 30% of that capacity as a flex capacity can help other players in the industry or the potential customer in the industry so that the hydrogen really ends up being viewed as being very ubiquitous and the green hydrogen keeps on getting more and more economical. That's how we think about it.

太好了，埃里克。好問題。看，我想我們在上次通話中也談到了一點。我們不想賣光全部產能，對吧？因為我們正在考慮建立這個綠色氫生成網絡的方式是，它將是一個不可抗力彈性網絡，將確保綠色氫是經濟的，無處不在的。因此，當他們計劃採用越來越多的燃料電池應用時，沒有人應該真正擔心氫的來源，對吧？因此，我們一直在針對並且我們一直在內部討論和考慮的數字是我們希望在長期合同下擁有的產能的 70% 到 80%，但我們絕對希望擁有 20% 到 30%該容量的 % 作為彈性容量可以幫助行業中的其他參與者或行業中的潛在客戶，從而使氫最終被視為非常普遍，並且綠色氫繼續變得越來越經濟。這就是我們的想法。

Okay.

好的。

And Eric, one another point is an important one to note here as well, right? Because when we think about this whole green hydrogen offtake strategy on a long-term basis is -- and I think you know this, but it's probably important for others to keep in mind, so the demand multipliers that comes from new application is a very important one as well that we all need to keep in mind like forklift consumes 1 kilogram of hydrogen a day.

埃里克，還有一點在這裡也很重要，對吧？因為當我們從長遠角度考慮整個綠色氫採購戰略時，我想你知道這一點，但其他人可能要記住這一點很重要，所以來自新應用的需求乘數是非常重要的同樣重要的一點，我們都需要記住，就像叉車每天消耗 1 公斤氫氣一樣。

You have your light commercial vehicle at about 6 to 8 kilograms a day, Class 8 truck, 50 to 60 kilograms a day. And if you have a 24/7 stationary power, that's almost 1.4 tons a day. That's how the demand multiplies for hydrogen and which is another reason why we're very strategic and thoughtful in terms of entering into these long-term contracts to make sure that there is enough hydrogen available for our pedestal core customers as they embrace and adopt new application that hydrogen availability is never a concern and never an issue.

你的輕型商用車每天大約 6 到 8 公斤，8 級卡車每天 50 到 60 公斤。如果你有一個 24/7 的固定電源，那幾乎是每天 1.4 噸。這就是對氫的需求成倍增長的另一個原因，這也是我們在簽訂這些長期合同方面非常具有戰略性和深思熟慮的另一個原因，以確保在我們的基座核心客戶接受和採用新產品時有足夠的氫可用應用氫的可用性從來不是一個問題，也從來不是問題。

Yes. No, that makes perfect sense. Good color there. Maybe just last one for me. Materials Handling, a strong quarter here. I think in the past, you've said you're targeting 3 additional pedestal customers in 2022.

是的。不，這完全有道理。那裡顏色不錯。也許對我來說只是最後一個。物料搬運，這是一個強勁的季度。我認為過去，您曾說過要在 2022 年瞄準另外 3 個基座客戶。

Just maybe thoughts on how you're trending there? And can you remind me, I mean, are you counting on those 3 for your guidance, I guess they probably wouldn't have much of an impact even if you secure them today on 2022, it'd be more 2023.

只是可能對你在那裡的趨勢有什麼想法？你能提醒我嗎，我的意思是，你指望這 3 個作為你的指導嗎？我想即使你今天在 2022 年獲得它們，它們也可能不會產生太大影響，2023 年會更多。

That's correct, Eric. So our guidance of $925 million in revenue does not include that. Just got our call with their head of that business, who's a Crespo. He's feeling very good about the 2 potential customers in Europe.

沒錯，埃里克。因此，我們對 9.25 億美元收入的指導不包括在內。剛剛接到我們與該業務負責人的電話，他是 Crespo。他對歐洲的 2 位潛在客戶感覺非常好。

I think in our earnings letter, we mentioned the relationship with Lidl, which is developing and really feel good about the U.S. customer. So we feel like we're trending well. Quite honestly, that's -- that's the easy business for us. That's the one that after these years, it's very, very systematic.

我認為在我們的收益信中，我們提到了與 Lidl 的關係，這種關係正在發展並且對美國客戶感覺良好。所以我們覺得我們的趨勢很好。老實說，這對我們來說很容易。這就是這些年後，它非常非常系統。

Next question comes from P.J. Juvekar with Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 P.J. Juvekar。

Andy, Sanjay and Paul. Andy, with cost of natural gas going up in Europe, green hydrogen is at par or even cheaper than gray hydrogen in Europe. So your timing in Europe is great. Can you talk a little bit about your Duisburg, Germany facility? Would that be a hub like Rochester? And what are the plans there? You said water connection to different ports? What are the plans for that facility?

安迪、桑杰和保羅。安迪，隨著歐洲天然氣成本的上漲，綠氫在歐洲與灰氫相當，甚至更便宜。所以你在歐洲的時機很好。您能談談您在德國杜伊斯堡的工廠嗎？那會是像羅切斯特這樣的樞紐嗎？那裡有什麼計劃？你說不同端口的水連接？該設施的計劃是什麼？

Yes. I would say, P.J., that fill facility is hub today for light manufacturing and distribution. But the plans for, I think, the plans for Europe I think you'll see a couple of items. We announced a small deal for 10 megawatts in Hungary. I can tell you that in Europe alone, there are probably -- with David (inaudible) today, 300 opportunities, Paul, in Europe alone for electrolyzers. And so there is an incredible push. And between that and our activities with HYVIA in France, where there is strong financial support that we will probably get for putting a facility in Europe that -- I think the opportunities in Europe for electrolyzers with this issue of energy independence is enormous, and we see it. And so you're right. And Plug is uniquely positioned because we can actually build products today and ship, which puts us in a much different position than I think others in the marketplace.

是的。我想說，P.J.，那個填充設施是今天的輕型製造和分銷中心。但我認為歐洲的計劃我認為你會看到一些項目。我們在匈牙利宣布了一項 10 兆瓦的小額交易。我可以告訴你，僅在歐洲，就可能 - 與大衛（聽不清）今天，保羅，僅在歐洲就有 300 個電解槽機會。所以有一個令人難以置信的推動力。在這與我們在法國與 HYVIA 的活動之間，我們可能會因為在歐洲建立一個設施而獲得強大的財政支持——我認為在歐洲，電解槽在能源獨立問題上的機會是巨大的，我們看見。所以你是對的。 Plug 具有獨特的定位，因為我們實際上可以在今天製造產品並發貨，這使我們處於與我認為市場上其他公司大不相同的位置。

Great. And my second question is for Sanjay. Sanjay, you mentioned here that the molecule cost to get -- could get cut in half next year as you start these green hydrogen plants. Can you give us a little bit more color on how does the cost go down by half with green hydrogen? Just curious.

偉大的。我的第二個問題是針對桑傑的。桑傑，你在這裡提到，當你啟動這些綠色氫工廠時，明年獲得的分子成本可能會減少一半。你能給我們多一點關於綠色氫的成本如何降低一半的顏色嗎？只是好奇。

Sure. P.J., I think by the way, looking forward to being at your conference tomorrow. So again, on the -- so let's take a step back, right? I mean I think you guys see it in our P&L as to how negative the fuel business margin is. That's a function of what has happened to price of natural gas and how that price of natural gas has gotten passed on to us.

當然。 P.J.，順便說一下，期待明天參加你的會議。再說一次，關於 - 所以讓我們退後一步，對吧？我的意思是，我認為你們在我們的損益表中看到了燃料業務利潤率有多負。這是天然氣價格發生的變化以及天然氣價格如何傳遞給我們的函數。

And we obviously don't pass that on to our end customers, right? So our margins are negatively impacted here. When you can almost extrapolate that those numbers are pretty substantial in high single digit to, in some cases, low double digits, right?

而且我們顯然不會把它傳遞給我們的最終客戶，對吧？因此，我們的利潤率在這裡受到了負面影響。當你幾乎可以推斷出這些數字在高個位數時相當可觀，在某些情況下，低兩位數，對吧？

Now we've told you all that in every single one of our green hydrogen plant, we have looked at securing low-cost reliable electricity. We've told you how much electricity is needed to produce 1 kilogram of liquid hydrogen. And the CapEx is not the biggest component in that particular case, right?

現在我們已經告訴您，在我們的每一個綠色氫工廠中，我們都著眼於確保低成本可靠的電力。我們已經告訴過你生產 1 公斤液態氫需要多少電力。在這種特殊情況下，資本支出並不是最大的組成部分，對吧？

So if you're looking at a scenario where green hydrogen spigot cost is closer to $4 per kilogram, that number is getting cut in half. Now from a consolidated number perspective, you would not see that entire pickup in the gross margin right away, you see that continue to get better as we go forward because we still have some legacy contracts that will roll over in 2023, '24 and '25 time frame, but you will continue to see the margin pick up.

因此，如果您正在研究綠色氫氣龍頭成本接近每公斤 4 美元的情況，那麼這個數字將減少一半。現在從綜合數字的角度來看，您不會立即看到毛利率的全部回升，您會看到隨著我們的發展繼續變得更好，因為我們仍然有一些遺留合同將在 2023 年、“24 年”和“ 25 時間框架，但您將繼續看到保證金回升。

And 1 other thing, right, as this plan keeps getting ramped up as the utilization keeps going up, in the month of April, we actually had even more than 90% utilization in our plant in Tennessee. And despite everything that's happening in natural gas world right now, that is going to actually be a big contributor and will help us with the molecule cost even in Q2 versus Q1 of this year.

還有一件事，對了，隨著利用率的不斷提高，這個計劃也在不斷增加，在 4 月份，我們在田納西州的工廠實際上的利用率甚至超過了 90%。儘管現在天然氣世界正在發生一切，但這實際上將是一個重要的貢獻者，即使在今年第二季度與第一季度的情況下，也將幫助我們降低分子成本。

Our next question comes from Craig Irwin with ROTH Capital Partners.

我們的下一個問題來自 ROTH Capital Partners 的 Craig Irwin。

Definitely appreciate this. So Andy, most of the things I wanted to talk about have been thoroughly covered at this point. So big picture, right? Plug is one of the very few companies that's really executing in the broader fuel cells, hydrogen space.

絕對欣賞這一點。所以，安迪，我想談的大部分事情都已經完全涵蓋了。這麼大的圖，對吧？ Plug 是為數不多的真正在更廣泛的燃料電池氫領域開展業務的公司之一。

And a key part of that is green hydrogen, you're working with the right partners, you're meeting major milestones on a frequent basis. What would you do possibly to go faster? I mean, is that $100 million -- $100 million more a year. What could you do?

其中一個關鍵部分是綠色氫，您正在與合適的合作夥伴合作，您經常會遇到重要的里程碑。你會怎麼做才能走得更快？我的意思是，是 1 億美元——每年多 1 億美元。你能做什麼？

Well, Craig, I can tell you I give a lot of thought to how to really scale this electrolyzer business quicker. That means that duplicating our facility in Rochester sooner rather than later could have a big benefit to our business.

好吧，克雷格，我可以告訴你，我對如何真正更快地擴大電解槽業務進行了很多思考。這意味著儘早複製我們在羅切斯特的工廠可能會給我們的業務帶來很大的好處。

Item 2, Craig, is that the work we're doing on digging through Class 8 vehicles over the next 6 months. That's an area that we're fully committed to making a move and making a smart move. I think there are 2 big ones. I think the electrolyzer business, a lot's going to be whoever has the capacity will win.

第 2 項，克雷格，是我們在接下來的 6 個月內為挖掘 8 級車輛所做的工作。這是我們完全致力於採取行動並採取明智之舉的領域。我認為有2個大的。我認為電解槽業務，很多都是有能力的人會贏。

And I think during these times when people are getting nervous, we have the balance sheet to do it and to get aggressively ahead. And it's not off the table that we would think through additional consolidation of this industry at the right time at the right price to even grow Plug bigger, faster. So this is one sheet gives us strength that I think sometimes is hidden by other items.

我認為在人們變得緊張的這段時間裡，我們有資產負債表來做這件事並積極地領先。而且，我們不會考慮通過在合適的時間以合適的價格進一步整合這個行業，甚至讓 Plug 更大、更快地發展。所以這是一張給我們力量的紙，我認為有時會被其他物品隱藏。

So just as a follow-up then, it sounds like electrolyzers and Class 8 trucks are really key markets that you're prioritizing for potential acceleration and that you're happy with the targets you have for green hydrogen over the next couple of years.

因此，作為後續行動，聽起來電解槽和 8 級卡車確實是您優先考慮潛在加速的關鍵市場，並且您對未來幾年綠色氫的目標感到滿意。

As the other side of that, you just signed this excellent agreement with Olin, I guess, 350, 400 tons a day available sort of at their facilities. What would you say the right number? What would make you say the right number is 2000? Do we need market development to move faster to allow you to service into that? Or are you scaled appropriately for how this is developing?

另一方面，您剛剛與 Olin 簽署了這份出色的協議，我猜，他們的設施每天可提供 350 至 400 噸。你會說什麼正確的數字？什麼會讓你說正確的數字是 2000？我們是否需要更快地開發市場以讓您參與其中？或者您是否針對其發展方式進行了適當調整？

That's a real good question. I think that -- we are building a new 300,000 square foot facility -- in New York. That provides us the infrastructure to be bigger than we are today for equipment. It's the MEA capacity of 2.5 gigawatts that we have to give a lot of thought to scaling even quicker.

這真是一個好問題。我認為——我們正在紐約建造一個新的 300,000 平方英尺的設施。這為我們提供了比今天更大的設備基礎設施。這是 2.5 吉瓦的 MEA 容量，我們必須花很多心思才能更快地擴展。

You hit on one of the main premises I have, the greater the availability of green hydrogen, the greater the availability. It's a flywheel effect as my buddy Sanjay, always says, which will drive these apps. And to us, having that hydrogen on is critical to our success. So we're laser-focused on that. The electrolyzer business, I can't tell you how big it could be because it's -- Sanjay, you throw around a number to me that they think there's...

你談到了我的一個主要前提，綠色氫的可用性越大，可用性就越大。正如我的好友 Sanjay 所說，這是一種飛輪效應，它將驅動這些應用程序。對我們來說，擁有氫氣對我們的成功至關重要。所以我們專注於這一點。電解器業務，我無法告訴你它有多大，因為它是——桑傑，你給我一個數字，他們認為有...

Like 150 gigawatt of potential pending opportunities...

就像 150 吉瓦潛在的未決機會......

In the near term. And nobody has a capacity or a capability to build it. That's why I hired these folks from Tesla. If you look at my ops team, Greg, I got the guy who built the Reno factory, I have the folks who did ran a supply chain for Musk in Reno. I have the folks who automated those factories that work for Plug today. We're bringing the talent and capability and to scale this business quick.

在短期內。沒有人有能力或有能力建造它。這就是我從特斯拉聘請這些人的原因。如果你看看我的運營團隊，格雷格，我找到了建造雷諾工廠的人，我有那些在雷諾為馬斯克經營供應鏈的人。我有一些人自動化了今天為 Plug 工作的那些工廠。我們正在帶來人才和能力，并快速擴展這項業務。

You definitely have the reputation for treating your staff a lot better. So I hope they're happy at Plug for walking your success.

你肯定以更好地對待你的員工而聞名。所以我希望他們對 Plug 的成功感到高興。

Touché, Craig.

觸摸，克雷格。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Jeff Osborne with Cowen and Company.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Cowen and Company 的 Jeff Osborne。

Two quick ones, clarifications and 1 more strategic question. On the clarification side, just wanted to better appreciate on the nat-gas pricing moves, how quickly that flows through your P&L.

兩個快速的，澄清和 1 個更具戰略意義的問題。在澄清方面，只是想更好地了解天然氣定價的變動，以及它通過您的損益表的速度。

So hypothetically, are your contracts 3, 6, 12 months in duration of today was the peak of the market and you're buying -- locking in a contract today? When would that flow through on a P&L basis on a price per kilogram basis?

因此，假設您的合約在今天的 3、6、12 個月期間是市場的高峰期，而您正在買入 - 今天鎖定合約？以每公斤價格為基礎的損益表何時會流轉？

Yes. So let Sanjay take that, Jeff.

是的。所以讓桑傑接受，傑夫。

So Jeff, there's about a quarter lag in terms of the natural gas price being adjusted, right? So you could almost see what happened to our fuel cost, which -- so fuel costs that we buy today from our suppliers, natural gas represents about 40% of the cost of that.

傑夫，天然氣價格調整大約有四分之一的滯後，對吧？所以你幾乎可以看到我們的燃料成本發生了什麼變化，我們今天從供應商那裡購買的燃料成本，天然氣約佔其成本的 40%。

And as we can see what happened to the price of natural gas in Q4, right? And that's the impact you saw in Q1. So you can also track what happened to the price of natural gas in Q1. You will actually see that impacting Q2. That actually gets reset in the beginning of the quarter. That's typically how it happens, Jeff. It's on a quarterly basis.

正如我們所看到的，第四季度天然氣價格發生了什麼變化，對吧？這就是你在第一季度看到的影響。因此，您還可以跟踪第一季度天然氣價格的變化。您實際上會看到影響第二季度的情況。這實際上在本季度初被重置。傑夫，這通常是這樣發生的。它是按季度計算的。

Got it. That's very helpful. I appreciate it, Sanjay. And just a lot of moving pieces in your business, a lot of hiring international expansion, multiple JVs. Could you give us either formal or informal OpEx and CapEx guidance for the year, just things that you can control in life? It would be helpful to understand where your head's at, especially relative to the Q1 run rate?

知道了。這很有幫助。我很感激，桑傑。而且你的業務中有很多動態的部分，很多招聘國際擴張，多個合資企業。您能否為我們提供正式或非正式的年度運營支出和資本支出指導，只是您可以在生活中控制的事情？了解您的頭在哪裡會很有幫助，尤其是相對於第一季度的運行率？

For Plug, overall? Yes, I think...

對於插頭，總體而言？是的，我認為...

Exactly.

確切地。

Yes. That $100 million is probably a good proxy, Jeff. I think -- so a lot of it is noncash as we worked through the acquisition accounting. There's some amortization of intangibles and things like that. It was probably a little bit higher than I expected as we worked through those early -- we did the 3 deals in the last -- over December and January.

是的。傑夫，那 1 億美元可能是一個很好的代理。我認為 - 當我們通過收購會計工作時，其中很多都是非現金的。有一些無形資產之類的攤銷。這可能比我預期的要高一點，因為我們早早完成了這些工作——我們在最後一次完成了 3 筆交易——在 12 月和 1 月。

Well, I think as we said today, kind of $100 million to $105 million per quarter is probably a good proxy on OpEx. On CapEx, I expect it to ramp quite frankly. We've talked about getting up to $1 billion this year. So I expect as we go through the balance of the year with the plants that were the green hydrogen facilities as well as the new buildings that we're building that, that pace will accelerate.

好吧，我認為正如我們今天所說，每季度 1 億到 1.05 億美元可能是運營支出的一個很好的代表。在資本支出方面，我預計它會相當坦率地上升。我們已經討論過今年達到 10 億美元。因此，我預計，隨著我們在今年餘下的時間裡建設綠色氫設施的工廠以及我們正在建造的新建築，這一步伐將會加快。

Got it. That's helpful, Paul. And then, Andy, maybe for you. You said you spent a lot of time thinking about how to scale the electrolyzer business. A 2-part question for you, if you don't mind. One is, could you articulate why you're winning, a. And then, b, I'd love to understand some of the acquisitions that you've made that your competitors don't have, in particular, on frames on the EPC side and anything on the tanks and distribution side.

知道了。這很有幫助，保羅。然後，安迪，也許適合你。你說你花了很多時間思考如何擴大電解槽業務。如果您不介意，請給您一個兩部分的問題。一個是，你能說出你為什麼會贏嗎？然後，b，我很想了解您進行的一些競爭對手沒有的收購，特別是在 EPC 方面的框架以及油箱和分銷方面的任何東西。

What I'm trying to get at is when you're chasing this business you're looking at the pipeline, could you give us a sense of what the attach rate or stickiness would be of EPC and storage and distribution. And then what that does on a revenue per megawatt basis for say you folks versus other people that are maybe just providing an equipment solution.

我想要了解的是，當你在追逐這項業務時，你正在尋找管道，你能否讓我們了解 EPC 以及存儲和分銷的附加率或粘性是多少。然後以每兆瓦的收入為基礎，例如你們與其他可能只是提供設備解決方案的人相比，這會產生什麼影響。

That's a good question. I'm going to let Sanjay take the second part of it. But let me talk -- take the winning part of it. And I think the equation comes down to that PEM -- there's always a technology aspect, Jeff. And you don't get to the next stage unless you have technology that can meet cut. And I can tell you that with our deal with the Orascom, it came down to the fact that they did the 2-year study of who had what they thought was the best PEM electrolyzer technology, and they concluded that Plug had the best offering.

這是個好問題。我打算讓 Sanjay 承擔它的第二部分。但是讓我談談 - 拿它的勝利部分。我認為這個等式歸結為 PEM——總有一個技術方面，傑夫。除非您擁有可以滿足切割要求的技術，否則您無法進入下一階段。我可以告訴你，通過我們與 Orascom 的交易，歸根結底是他們對誰擁有他們認為最好的 PEM 電解槽技術進行了為期 2 年的研究，他們得出的結論是 Plug 提供了最好的產品。

I think the second item that folks look at is that who can put all the parts together and actually support the build-out of the plant. And you mentioned frames -- and if you look atomization, we're really deeply involved in the transition from fossil fuel to hydrogen. And so many of our people come from the oil and gas industry and know how to do big products -- projects.

我認為人們關注的第二個項目是誰能將所有部件放在一起並真正支持工廠的擴建。你提到了框架——如果你看一下原子化，我們真的深入參與了從化石燃料到氫的過渡。我們有很多人來自石油和天然氣行業，知道如何做大產品——項目。

And when you start talking about 1 gigawatt plant, how you manage the water, how you manage the drying of the hydrogen. I think the capability that we bring to the table, especially with the Frames acquisition, and all the back office support activity we have in India because you really need for these kind of opportunities, lots and lots of documentation, lots and lots of support. And I think the third item, it's -- I'd give you a fourth item too. Third is we have manufacturing capability, and we know how to make the products. That may seem basic. But the fact of the matter is, Plug has been doing this for a long time in one industry and the fact you actually know how to buy components, do drilling, build things make things that work, understand those issues uniquely qualify us.

當您開始談論 1 吉瓦工廠時，您如何管理水，如何管理氫氣的干燥。我認為我們帶來的能力，尤其是收購 Frames 以及我們在印度的所有後台支持活動，因為您確實需要這些機會、大量文檔、大量支持。我認為第三項，它是-- 我也會給你第四項。第三是我們有製造能力，我們知道如何製造產品。這似乎很基本。但事實是，Plug 在一個行業中已經這樣做了很長時間，而且您實際上知道如何購買組件、進行鑽孔、建造東西使事情變得有效，了解這些問題使我們有獨特的資格。

And I can tell you the fourth 1 that Orascom said to me, they conclude that Plug was going to be the leader in this industry, and they want to be with the leader. Sanjay, I think now you can kind of talk about the stickiness and opportunities for liquefiers and travelers and other opportunities.

我可以告訴你 Orascom 對我說的第四個 1，他們得出的結論是 Plug 將成為這個行業的領導者，他們希望與領導者在一起。桑傑，我想現在你可以談談液化器和旅行者的粘性和機會以及其他機會。

Absolutely. So Jeff, one of the sort of recent example here with one of the potential customer was. So there was an electrolyzer team, right? Then we had our team that were actually talking about why we have the -- potentially one of the most energy-efficient liquefiers. We didn't stop there. We said we can actually build you on-site storage. We can actually build you tankers, right, liquid hydrogen tankers as well.

絕對地。所以傑夫，最近與一位潛在客戶的例子之一就是。所以有一個電解小組，對吧？然後我們的團隊實際上正在談論為什麼我們擁有 - 可能是最節能的液化器之一。我們並沒有就此止步。我們說過我們實際上可以為您構建現場存儲。我們實際上可以為您製造油輪，對，液氫油輪也是如此。

So when you really look at it from that perspective, as Andy talks about it, right? This really gives us that really, really unique opportunity of portfolio sale. So it's a one-stop shop. We can manage our supply chain better. We can give you better pricing. We can really give you a turnkey end-to-end solution. And that's where, one, it's sticky; two, it's obviously a higher dollar per customer opportunity even thinking about are a liquid hydrogen perspective, right? So that's where it becomes a pretty substantial opportunity for us.

所以當你真正從這個角度看待它時，正如安迪所說的那樣，對吧？這確實為我們提供了非常非常獨特的投資組合銷售機會。所以它是一個一站式商店。我們可以更好地管理我們的供應鏈。我們可以為您提供更好的定價。我們真的可以為您提供一個交鑰匙的端到端解決方案。這就是其中之一，它很粘；二，這顯然是每個客戶機會更高的美元，甚至考慮到液態氫的觀點，對嗎？所以這對我們來說是一個非常重要的機會。

And Jeff, from the numbers perspective, just for your sort of the modeling of the benefit as well. This is how we run it. When you think about a 15 tons per day liquid hydrogen plant, you need about 7 or so liquid tankers, right? That's the math you want to think about. You will at least have about 2 to 3, 60,000 a gallon stores storage on site as well.

傑夫，從數字的角度來看，也只是為了你的利益建模。這就是我們運行它的方式。當您考慮一個每天 15 噸的液氫工廠時，您需要大約 7 輛左右的液罐車，對吧？這就是你要考慮的數學。您還將在現場至少擁有大約 2 到 3、60,000 個每加侖的存儲空間。

But once you go to 45-ton plant, then that's where you would actually be a large space to actually do the storage on site, and that's not where on-site storage would actually be as applicable from an application perspective.

但是一旦你去到 45 噸的工廠，那你實際上將是一個很大的空間來實際進行現場存儲，而從應用程序的角度來看，這並不是現場存儲實際適用的地方。

Next question comes from Andrew Percoco with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Andrew Percoco。

Just one quick one on site selection for renewables. Just hoping you can give an update in terms of what you're seeing on supply cost inflation, your ability to source PPAs for additional green hydrogen production facilities.

只需一個快速的可再生能源現場選擇。只是希望您能提供有關供應成本膨脹的最新情況，以及您為其他綠色氫氣生產設施採購 PPA 的能力。

And if there's any risk to that 500 ton per day goal by 2025 in North America given this recent Department of Commerce anti-circumvention case on the solar industry.

鑑於商務部最近關於太陽能行業的反規避案件，到 2025 年北美每天 500 噸的目標是否存在任何風險。

Go ahead, Sanjay.

去吧，桑傑。

Andrew, how are you. So very good question. So look, I think first thing, we've been very thoughtful about diversity of that power source. We have hydro PPAs. We have wind PPAs, and we have solar, #1. And #2, when you really look at our funnel here between 2022, 2023 and even into 2024, there are some PPAs that have already been signed, which puts us, if anything, in probably more of a competitive position versus the other way around.

安德魯，你好嗎。非常好的問題。所以看，我認為首先，我們對電源的多樣性進行了非常周到的考慮。我們有水電購電協議。我們有風能 PPA，我們有太陽能，#1。 #2，當您真正查看我們在 2022 年、2023 年甚至 2024 年之間的漏斗時，已經簽署了一些 PPA，這使我們（如果有的話）可能更具競爭地位，而不是相反.

Now even for one of -- opportunity in the West Coast. We've actually -- we locked in the module price when we actually entered into the development agreement. So that really puts us in a very unique position versus what you've seen to the solar module prices here in the market.

現在即使是在西海岸的機會之一。實際上，我們在實際簽訂開發協議時鎖定了模塊價格。因此，與您在市場上看到的太陽能組件價格相比，這確實使我們處於非常獨特的位置。

And you're absolutely right. Here in the near term, we've seen an escalation in the solar and the wind PPAs. But as you know, when you see this increase in the module prices fast forward 18 months, there is typically a very large capacity that gets added.

你是絕對正確的。在短期內，我們看到太陽能和風能 PPA 的升級。但如您所知，當您看到模塊價格在 18 個月內快速上漲時，通常會增加非常大的容量。

We've seen that again and again happen in this PV and the solar industry, prices do tend to come down. And we've been very thoughtful about not really sort of jumping into this very highly module prices and therefore, high solar PPA.

我們已經看到光伏和太陽能行業一次又一次地發生這種情況，價格確實趨於下降。我們一直在考慮不要真正跳入這個非常高的組件價格，因此，高太陽能 PPA。

We've been strategic about that. We've been looking at opportunities that's already secured. That gets us to where we need to get to. And Andy also touched on it, right? This all-in partnership really also puts us in a very unique position not just to get to that 500 tons per day number but potentially even exceed that. So that's the approach we're taking. We're being very thoughtful about it and not just jumping into wanting to sign a solar PPA given what has happened to the module prices here in the near term as well as what has happened to the PPA for the new greenfield site, if you would.

我們對此一直保持戰略性。我們一直在尋找已經確定的機會。這讓我們到達了我們需要到達的地方。安迪也提到了，對吧？這種全面的合作夥伴關係也確實使我們處於一個非常獨特的位置，不僅要達到每天 500 噸的數量，而且甚至可能超過這個數量。這就是我們正在採取的方法。我們對此非常深思熟慮，而不僅僅是考慮到模塊價格在短期內發生的變化以及新綠地的 PPA 發生的變化，如果你願意的話.

Great. That's super helpful. And then just one last one for me. I think, Andy, before you alluded to some potential additional M&A. Is there anything left like to vertically integrate? Or would it be more of a -- potentially more of a strategic acquisition to expand into a new geography that you don't currently operate in?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。然後是我的最後一個。我想，安迪，在你提到一些潛在的額外併購之前。有沒有像垂直整合的東西？或者它是否會更像是一種戰略性收購，以擴展到您目前沒有經營的新地區？

I would say, Andrew, that -- we obviously are thinking a great deal about Class 8 trucks, and that's probably an opportunity for additional vertical integrations. I think we're also, and I think probably more in the partnership side, thinking a lot about large-scale storage and pipelines, nothing -- I don't think we would do either without partners, but that's certainly an area we're giving a lot of attention to.

我想說，安德魯，我們顯然對 8 級卡車有很多想法，這可能是額外垂直整合的機會。我認為我們也是，而且我認為可能更多地在合作夥伴方面，考慮了很多關於大規模存儲和管道的事情，什麼都沒有——我認為沒有合作夥伴我們也不會這樣做，但這肯定是我們的一個領域'重新給予很多關注。

And quite -- and really kind of also those kind of activities are kind of tagged to the broader infrastructure bill that is law and the broader hubs, for example, in New York, where we think those type of offerings could be really beneficial in supercharging the hydrogen economy.

相當 - 而且真的有點像這類活動被標記為更廣泛的基礎設施法案，即法律和更廣泛的樞紐，例如在紐約，我們認為這些類型的產品可能對增壓非常有益氫經濟。

Our next question comes from Ameet Thakkar with BMO Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 Ameet Thakkar。

Just a real quick the acquisitions added $40 million of revenue in this quarter. And I was just wondering on a gross margin basis, like how did that kind of fare relative to, say, your core material handling business and your other products business?

這些收購很快就在本季度增加了 4000 萬美元的收入。我只是想知道在毛利率的基礎上，這種票價相對於你的核心材料處理業務和其他產品業務如何？

It's lower. I mean when you -- these are businesses that we're scaling with new products right out of the gate, if you look at our electrolyzer business as an example, it's probably going to be 6, 7x the volume we did last year. So it's scaling quickly and rapidly.

它更低。我的意思是，當你——這些是我們一開始就用新產品擴展的業務時，如果你以我們的電解槽業務為例，它可能會是我們去年的 6 倍、7 倍。所以它的擴展速度很快。

And I expect the margin on that, particularly in the second half as that starts to really scale the size to really be in the start to approximating that 30% target. So it's -- on a mix basis, I mean, there's a lot of different components in that. So it's hard to probably get in detail on this phone call.

我預計這方面的利潤，特別是在下半年，因為這開始真正擴大規模，真正開始接近 30% 的目標。所以它 - 在混合的基礎上，我的意思是，其中有很多不同的組成部分。所以很難詳細了解這個電話。

But I would just say, in general, think about it as new products that we're quickly scaling and rapidly growing, and it's anywhere from low double digits to, in some cases, up north of 20%, but we'll scale all of them up to that 30% as we move to the second half of the year and onward.

但我只想說，總的來說，將其視為我們正在快速擴展和快速增長的新產品，它從低兩位數到在某些情況下超過 20%，但我們將擴展所有隨著我們進入下半年及以後，其中的比例高達 30%。

Great. And I think Sanjay has kind of touched on a couple of times on the call. But like I think you guys had talked about being able to kind of get PPAs in the $0.025 to $0.03 kilowatt power range. But kind of given higher prevailing power prices and the DOC investigation, the PPA prices have come up.

偉大的。而且我認為 Sanjay 在電話會議上談了幾次。但就像我認為你們已經談到能夠獲得 0.025 美元到 0.03 美元千瓦功率範圍內的 PPA。但鑑於現行電價較高和 DOC 的調查，PPA 價格已經上漲。

But just to kind of be clear, like are we to kind of understand the kind of all of the kind of power capacity you need for the 70 ton per day exit rate in '22 is largely kind of in place and you kind of be kind of opportunistic and layering kind of additional power capacity to get to the 500 tons per day after this kind of settled down. Is that the right way of looking at it?

但要明確一點，就像我們要了解 22 年每天 70 噸的出口率所需的所有類型的電力容量基本上已經到位，你有點友善這種投機取巧的、分層式的新增發電能力達到500噸/日後這種安定下來。這是正確的看待它的方式嗎？

Yes. I mean short answer is yes. But let me add even some more to that, right? It's actually beyond that 70 tons per day, where we've actually secured power pricing to see you know, right?

是的。我的意思是簡短的回答是肯定的。但是，讓我再補充一點，對吧？它實際上超過了每天 70 噸，我們實際上已經確定了電價，你知道的，對吧？

And so again, look, I think we'll obviously be thoughtful about it in terms of when do we think is the right time. It's obviously seeing a pretty meaningful impact on the PP module prices as well as the solar PPAs. So we're not going to jump into entering into a PPA that we have to live with for the next 15 years given short-term dynamics here in the market, but it actually gets us well beyond that 70-ton numbers in terms of the already signed PPA with wind and even some of the solar deals and also some of the other hydro deals that we have.

再一次，看，我認為我們顯然會考慮到我們認為什麼時候是正確的時間。它顯然對 PP 組件價格以及太陽能 PPA 產生了非常有意義的影響。因此，考慮到市場的短期動態，我們不會跳進未來 15 年必須遵守的 PPA，但它實際上讓我們遠遠超過了 70 噸的數字。已經與風能甚至一些太陽能交易以及我們擁有的其他一些水電交易簽署了 PPA。

Our next question comes from Alex Kania with Wolfe Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Alex Kania。

So 2 questions. First one is just -- I know that we're expecting maybe a little bit more detail from the EU on their repower proposal, I guess, in the next couple of weeks. From your perspective, what are the most important things that you're looking for from that, if anything? That's -- that would be the first question.

所以2個問題。第一個只是 - 我知道我們預計歐盟可能會在接下來的幾週內就他們的重新授權提案提供更多細節。從您的角度來看，如果有的話，您從中尋找的最重要的東西是什麼？那是——這將是第一個問題。

Maybe the second one is one of your renewable PPA providers is also talking or has announced kind of a broad integrated sort of hydrogen project down on the Gulf Coast involving midstream and renewables and that. I'm just kind of conceptually kind of what role and what things are you looking for, for the perspective of maybe either participating in that? Or similar types of projects and maybe how midstream kind of assets, things like that might getting be integrated in that over time.

也許第二個是您的可再生 PPA 供應商之一也在談論或宣佈在墨西哥灣沿岸開展一種廣泛的綜合氫項目，涉及中游和可再生能源等。我只是在概念上有點像你在尋找什麼角色和什麼東西，從可能參與其中的角度來看？或類似類型的項目，以及中游類型的資產，隨著時間的推移，諸如此類的事情可能會被整合到其中。

Yes. Sanjay, you want to talk about the support and the relationship with our PPA provider?

是的。 Sanjay，您想談談與我們 PPA 提供商的支持和關係嗎？

Yes. So Alex, on this, right. I mean I think the way we look at it is this is such a massive market there are times when we're going to be working together. It's almost like the coopetition kind of an approach, if you would, right, where you're cooperating at times, and maybe there are times where you might be competing.

是的。所以亞歷克斯，關於這個，對。我的意思是我認為我們看待它的方式是，這是一個如此巨大的市場，有時我們會一起工作。這幾乎就像一種合作競爭的方法，如果你願意的話，對，有時你會合作，也許有時你可能會競爭。

But we have a really, really attractive PPA with this particular partner, especially in the Texas area, and we're pretty pleased with that. Look, hydrogen is a massive market. And again, we also do have additional components that we can provide to some of these partners as well.

但是我們與這個特定的合作夥伴有一個非常非常有吸引力的 PPA，尤其是在德克薩斯地區，我們對此感到非常滿意。看，氫氣是一個巨大的市場。同樣，我們也確實可以向其中一些合作夥伴提供其他組件。

So please don't read into this, but we're certainly in a position to be able to provide them with additional solutions, if you -- like Andy just talked about it, there's not a lot of players with the kind of electrolyzer capacity like we are. There's another a lot of folks that can provide liquefiers like we can or the liquid hydrogen tankers or the on-site storage.

所以請不要讀到這個，但我們肯定能夠為他們提供額外的解決方案，如果你——就像安迪剛剛談到的那樣，沒有多少玩家擁有這種電解槽容量就像我們一樣。還有很多人可以像我們一樣提供液化器，或者液氫罐車或現場儲存。

So nothing to share on this call at this point in time. But look, we're not surprised that there are others that are coming into this production of the green hydrogen from a liquid -- you should -- we'll probably expect to see more and more of that, and that's only a positive for the industry because it will help grow more apps, which is the business we're in as well. So that's how we think about that particular situation.

所以在這個時間點上沒有什麼可以分享的。但是看，我們並不感到驚訝，還有其他人正在從液體中生產綠色氫——你應該——我們可能會期待看到越來越多的這種情況，這只是一個積極的行業，因為它將幫助開發更多應用程序，這也是我們從事的業務。這就是我們對特定情況的看法。

Great. Maybe just on the European side.

偉大的。也許只是在歐洲方面。

Yes. On the European side, I think the key to us is the support for low-cost renewables. And quite honestly, this is what we've been working with the European governments on is low cost renewables to support deployment of green hydrogen. That to me, Alex, is kind of a key to success. And the reason is really kind of clear about with 75% of the cost for generating green hydrogen really tied to the cost of renewable power.

是的。在歐洲方面，我認為我們的關鍵是支持低成本的可再生能源。老實說，這就是我們一直在與歐洲政府合作的低成本可再生能源，以支持綠色氫的部署。對我來說，亞歷克斯，這是成功的關鍵。原因很清楚，75% 的綠色氫生產成本與可再生能源的成本密切相關。

So anything that supports renewable electricity that can be used for generation of green hydrogen, we believe, is critical, Alex.

因此，我們認為，任何支持可用於產生綠色氫的可再生電力的東西都是至關重要的，Alex。

Our next question comes from Biju Perincheril with Susquehanna.

我們的下一個問題來自 Biju Perincheril 和 Susquehanna。

A quick question. Thanks for breaking out the revenue contribution from the recent acquisition. So -- the question is, as you sort of ramp your hydrogen production capacity, is there still going to be an opportunity for third-party sales from the equipment from Joule and ACT, et cetera? And Also, can you give us a sense of how much that could be, like in your $3 billion target for 2025, how much is that could come from sort of B sources?

一個快速的問題。感謝您列出最近收購的收入貢獻。所以 - 問題是，當你提高你的氫氣生產能力時，來自 Joule 和 ACT 等設備的第三方銷售是否仍有機會？另外，您能否告訴我們這可能是多少，例如在您的 2025 年 30 億美元目標中，有多少可以來自 B 類來源？

So the answer to the question is absolutely yes. And I'm going to let Sanjay who overlooks those activities give you his thoughts about how we see that as part of our 2025 revenue.

所以這個問題的答案是肯定的。我將讓忽視這些活動的桑傑告訴你他對我們如何將其視為 2025 年收入的一部分的看法。

Yes. So Biju, short answer is we absolutely expect a lot of third-party sales from both of those business. Look, we're here to support the energy transition, right? And we're here to help and work many companies out there because it's a massive opportunity, #1.

是的。所以Biju，簡短的回答是我們絕對期望這兩個業務都有很多第三方銷售。看，我們是來支持能源轉型的，對吧？我們在這里為許多公司提供幫助和工作，因為這是一個巨大的機會，#1。

Number two, with what we could do from our applied cryo now Plug cryo business, we can certainly provide liquid hydrogen tankers on-site storage as well. And there is also additional business for liquid oxygen and liquid nitrogen as well as a part of that business that we do.

第二，利用我們現在應用的低溫 Plug cryo 業務可以做的事情，我們當然也可以提供液氫罐車現場儲存。還有液氧和液氮的額外業務，以及我們從事的部分業務。

So look, I mean, I think we have not obviously given what that could be as a part of that $3 billion number. We just do have similar growth rate like kind of the growth that we're talking about for the blood parent as a whole. So that's one.

所以看，我的意思是，我認為我們還沒有明確給出這 30 億美元數字中可能包含的內容。我們只是有類似的增長率，就像我們所說的血親作為一個整體的增長率。所以這是一個。

Second, on the liquefier side, so since we acquired Jewel Processing now Plug Process System, we believe we have one of the most efficient energy consumption for the liquefier. We also have partnerships with the likes of Atlas Copco and Fives that allows us to control supply chain better both for our own internal consumption as well as a third-party sale. Now when you think about could those business be between $400 million to $500 million in 2025 that should -- that does not sound like a stretch to us at all.

其次，在液化器方面，自從我們收購了現在的Jewel Processing Plug Process System，我們相信我們擁有液化器最有效的能源消耗之一。我們還與阿特拉斯·科普柯 (Atlas Copco) 和法孚 (Fives) 等公司建立了合作夥伴關係，這使我們能夠更好地控制供應鏈，既適用於我們自己的內部消費，也適用於第三方銷售。現在，當您考慮到 2025 年這些業務是否應該在 4 億到 5 億美元之間時，這對我們來說聽起來一點也不誇張。

Got it. That's helpful. And then just a quick clarification. The 500 tons per day of capacity you talked about for 2025, is that inclusive of all in volumes? Or is that going to be separate?

知道了。這很有幫助。然後只是一個快速的澄清。您談到的 2025 年每天 500 噸的產能，包括所有的數量嗎？還是會分開？

Yes, is the answer. But look, we're very happy, obviously, with this partnership, and we're just getting started in 1 location here. Hopefully, more to come. But obviously, very like-minded companies, we're thinking about hydrogen economy in a very similar way. So this certainly gives us a lot of flexibility and a lot of diversity, if you would, in terms of how we expand and get to that 500 tons, but it certainly could get us to a number higher than that as well.

是的，就是答案。但是看，我們很高興，很明顯，有了這種合作關係，我們才剛剛開始在這裡的一個地方。希望還會有更多。但顯然，志同道合的公司，我們以非常相似的方式思考氫經濟。因此，這肯定會給我們很大的靈活性和多樣性，如果你願意的話，就我們如何擴展並達到 500 噸而言，但它當然也可以讓我們達到更高的數字。

And gives you a lot of leverage in your PPA discussions as well as...

並在您的 PPA 討論中為您提供很多影響力以及...

I'm going to take your word on that and you and I think I'm going to use that going forward as we're negotiating PPA. I agree with you.

我會相信你的話，你和我想我會在我們談判 PPA 時使用它。我同意你的看法。

Our next question comes from Craig Shere with Tuohy Brothers.

我們的下一個問題來自 Craig Shere 和 Tuohy Brothers。

I've got a multipart on fuel, but some of the answers might be very brief. So if we're looking at 70 tons per day green hydrogen at the end of the year and you want to keep 30% flex capacity, that sounds like you're roughly balanced to meet maybe 50 tons per day internal need.

我有一個關於燃料的多部分，但有些答案可能非常簡短。因此，如果我們在年底看到每天 70 噸綠色氫氣，並且您希望保持 30% 的彈性產能，這聽起來您大致平衡，可以滿足每天 50 噸的內部需求。

And maybe that means that you're not under pressure to find pure-play just fuel offtakers like at refiners, utilities and others or maybe next year. So that's kind of the second part of the question. The third part of the question, are you prepared to share anything about proportional roll off on your industrial gas supply agreements from '23 to '25.

也許這意味著你沒有壓力去尋找純粹的燃料承購商，比如煉油廠、公用事業公司和其他公司，或者明年。這就是問題的第二部分。問題的第三部分，您是否準備好分享有關從 23 年到 25 年工業氣體供應協議按比例減產的任何信息。

And then I noticed your Walmart announcement and it sounds good, but I'm a little confused. Do you need formal agreements? Or can you just naturally swap in your own green hydrogen in lieu of third-party industrial gas supply? And my final part to the question is, at what point can you think about starting your very low-cost project debt on these completed green hydrogen plants?

然後我注意到你的沃爾瑪公告，聽起來不錯，但我有點困惑。你需要正式的協議嗎？還是您可以自然地用自己的綠色氫氣代替第三方工業氣體供應？我對這個問題的最後一部分是，你可以考慮在什麼時候開始對這些已完成的綠色氫工廠進行非常低成本的項目債務？

Well, a lot of questions there, Craig. You're the last one of the day, but not the least. I'm going to take the Walmart one and then I'll let Sanjay take a few of the others, and we'll figure out what we've left open. So when I look at the Walmart one, it reminds me of 2008, when we started with 63 forklift trucks which eventually became call it $9,500 a day, call it, $10,000.

好吧，那裡有很多問題，克雷格。你是一天中的最後一個，但並非最不重要。我要拿 Walmart 的，然後讓 Sanjay 拿其他幾個，然後我們會弄清楚我們還剩下什麼。因此，當我看到沃爾瑪的那輛時，它讓我想起了 2008 年，當時我們從 63 輛叉車開始，最終變成每天 9,500 美元，也就是 10,000 美元。

And that's really just the start. The focus is on material handling. The focus is on providing stationary power. The focus is for auto vehicles. This is just to get started in their distribution centers. And it is an expansion of what we're using today.

而這真的只是一個開始。重點是材料處理。重點是提供固定電源。重點是汽車。這只是在他們的配送中心開始。它是我們今天使用的擴展。

If you think about 20 tons, that probably supports call it, 80, 90 distribution centers. We're at 45 today. So there is an expansion there. I think what's really more important is it's just a start on Walmart's journey to reduce their suppliers' carbon footprint and their carbon footprint by 1 gigaton by 2030. So Sanjay, you want to talk about some of the other items that Craig brought up?

如果你考慮20噸，那可能支持稱之為80、90配送中心。我們今天 45 歲。所以那裡有一個擴展。我認為真正更重要的是，這只是沃爾瑪計劃到 2030 年將供應商的碳足跡和碳足跡減少 1 吉噸的旅程的開始。桑傑，你想談談克雷格提出的其他一些項目嗎？

Sure. So Craig, on the first one question about our demand versus what our capacity is going to be and not needing to necessarily defer a lot more offtake, you're right. But having said that, keep in mind, right, like very similar to the traditional energy industry. There is always going to be some sort of a swap agreement.

當然。所以克雷格，關於我們的需求與我們的能力將是什麼以及不需要推遲更多的承購的第一個問題，你是對的。不過話雖如此，請記住，對，就像傳統能源行業非常相似。總會有某種互換協議。

And look, we want to be -- continue to be buying from some of our hydrogen suppliers right now on a long-term basis, pricing has to be right. We might be selling them some green hydrogen, and they might be selling us some -- they might continue to sell us some of this gray hydrogen here in the near term, right? So I wouldn't say that we will stop buying hydrogen from some of our existing supplier. One caveat is the price has to be right. That's the key because we've got to keep focusing on driving the hydrogen economy forward.

看，我們希望——繼續從我們的一些氫供應商那里長期購買，定價必須是正確的。我們可能會賣給他們一些綠色氫，他們可能會賣給我們一些——他們可能會在短期內繼續向我們賣一些灰色氫，對吧？所以我不會說我們將停止從我們現有的一些供應商那裡購買氫氣。一個警告是價格必須合適。這是關鍵，因為我們必須繼續專注於推動氫經濟向前發展。

Now on the second piece of when do these contracts roll over, and I hope you can appreciate the fact that we do not want to get into that level of granularity. But we will share with you that typically, these contracts are for about 5 years. That's typically how they're structured. And our view on that, I think at this point in time, we probably don't want to get into too much granularity. So what part of the question, did I miss?

現在關於這些合同何時滾動的第二部分，我希望你能理解我們不想進入那個粒度級別的事實。但我們將與您分享，這些合同通常為期約 5 年。這通常是它們的結構。我們對此的看法，我認為在這個時間點上，我們可能不想進入太多的粒度。那麼問題的哪一部分，我錯過了？

You hit it almost all of it. The last question was at what point can we start securing very low-cost project debt on completed plants?

你幾乎全部擊中了它。最後一個問題是，我們可以在什麼時候開始為已建成的工廠獲得非常低成本的項目債務？

Sure. I say, as you know, it's going to be very similar to any other renewable assets, if you would. I mean I think today, you know the cap structure for solar, the cap structure for wind and if there is a production tax credit for this green hydrogen facilities, you could expect that there will be similar cap structure like that, depending on the structure of that production tax credit, right?

當然。我說，如您所知，如果您願意，它將與任何其他可再生資產非常相似。我的意思是我認為今天，你知道太陽能的上限結構，風能的上限結構，如果這個綠色氫設施有生產稅抵免，你可以預期會有類似的上限結構，具體取決於結構生產稅收抵免，對吧？

Now having said that, fast-forward a year, when we are fully -- the plant is fully ramped, it's generating cash flow, we feel quite confident that you could do back leverage, we can probably use some sort of a green bond against these plants, and that's certainly a part of the calculus for us in terms of how we plan to recycle capital as we continue to build out this green hydrogen generation network, both in North America as well as on a global basis.

話雖如此，快進一年，當我們完全 - 工廠完全產能提升時，它正在產生現金流，我們非常有信心你可以做反向槓桿，我們可能會使用某種綠色債券來對抗這些工廠，這當然是我們計劃如何回收資本的一部分，因為我們將繼續在北美和全球範圍內建立這個綠色氫生產網絡。

There are no further questions at this time. I'll turn the floor back to Andrew Marsh for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。我將請 Andrew Marsh 發言結束髮言。

Sure. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining the call today. When I look at -- we are building out the hydrogen ecosystem. We're doing it. We're building the plants. We have the trailers to deliver the products. We have the customers, which is critical. We have the electrolyzers. We have the fuel cells.

當然。好吧，謝謝大家今天加入電話會議。當我看到 - 我們正在建立氫生態系統。我們正在做。我們正在建造工廠。我們有拖車來運送產品。我們有客戶，這很關鍵。我們有電解槽。我們有燃料電池。

No one is in a better position to take advantage of this trend for the hydrogen economy for the coming years. So we're excited. We're going to deliver our $925 million this year, and I look forward to talking to everyone on the second quarter call. Thanks, everyone.

沒有人能更好地利用這一趨勢來推動未來幾年的氫經濟。所以我們很興奮。我們今年將交付 9.25 億美元，我期待在第二季度的電話會議上與大家交談。謝謝大家。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference. All parties may disconnect. Have a good day.

謝謝你。今天的會議到此結束。各方都可以斷開連接。祝你有美好的一天。