普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2021 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to Plug Power's Fourth Quarter 2021 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加 Plug Power 2021 年第四季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Teal Hoyos, Director of Marketing.

提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。我現在想將會議轉交給您的主持人，營銷總監 Teal Hoyos。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2021 Fourth Quarter Update Call. This call will include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operations or of our financial position or other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝你。歡迎來到 2021 年第四季度更新電話。本次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述包含對我們未來經營業績或我們的財務狀況或其他前瞻性信息的預測。我們打算將這些前瞻性陳述納入 1933 年《證券法》第 27A 條和 1934 年《證券交易法》第 21E 條中包含的前瞻性陳述的安全港條款。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements and such statements should not be read or understood as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2001, as well as other reports we file from time to time with the SEC. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day in which the statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的期望非常重要。然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被閱讀或理解為對未來業績或結果的保證。此類陳述受到風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果或業績與討論的結果或業績存在重大差異，這些因素包括但不限於我們年度報告表格中第 1A 項風險因素下討論的風險和不確定性截至 2001 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K，以及我們不時向 SEC 提交的其他報告。這些前瞻性陳述僅在做出陳述之日發表，我們不承諾或打算在本次電話會議後或由於新信息而更新任何前瞻性陳述。

At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug Power's CEO, Andy Marsh.

在這一點上，我想把電話轉給 Plug Power 的首席執行官安迪·馬什。

Well, thank you, Teal, and good afternoon, and thank you for joining our year-end conference call. Before we take questions, I'd like to make a few comments about the future. 2021, Plug Power grew revenue over 50%, despite the constraints of supply chain and the impact of the pandemic. In 2022, Plug almost doubled revenue. Our position as the first mover in creating the hydrogen economy is our top priority. We've achieved this position because we have focused on customers like Walmart, partnerships like SK, our technologies, our products and probably what I'm most proud of, fostered creative environment for our great staff. Why is our position as a first mover so important? Because hydrogen and fuel cell are $10 trillion opportunity that will change the energy landscape. Many large financial institutions are predicting that up to 20% of world's energy will come from hydrogen. It is our belief to accelerate that transition to a hydrogen economy, requires green hydrogen because it is critical for reaching the global climate goals. And to achieve that goal, green hydrogen needs to be ubiquitous.

好吧，謝謝你，蒂爾，下午好，感謝你參加我們的年終電話會議。在我們提問之前，我想對未來發表一些評論。 2021 年，儘管受到供應鏈的限制和大流行的影響，Plug Power 的收入仍增長了 50% 以上。 2022 年，Plug 的收入幾乎翻了一番。我們作為創造氫經濟的先行者的地位是我們的首要任務。我們之所以取得這一地位，是因為我們專注於像沃爾瑪這樣的客戶、像 SK 這樣的合作夥伴、我們的技術、我們的產品以及可能是我最引以為豪的東西，為我們優秀的員工營造了創造性的環境。為什麼我們作為先行者的地位如此重要？因為氫和燃料電池是 10 萬億美元的機會，將改變能源格局。許多大型金融機構預測，世界上多達 20% 的能源將來自氫。我們相信加速向氫經濟的過渡需要綠色氫，因為它對於實現全球氣候目標至關重要。為了實現這一目標，綠色氫需要無處不在。

Sometimes, I think it's mess that the steps we have taken in the past few years have been to achieve this goal. And let me reemphasize, it needs to be green because any other solution is a half step. The focus in green hydrogen is why we are building out the first green hydrogen network in the U.S. We'll have over 500 tons per day by 2025, and are going to duplicate this network around the world with partners like ACCIONA in Spain. It's also why we've acquired companies that know how to build hydrogen plants, generate hydrogen, leveraging electrolyzers, liquefying hydrogen, like our recent acquisition Joule, and transporting hydrogen.

有時，我認為我們在過去幾年採取的步驟一直是為了實現這一目標，這很混亂。讓我再次強調，它必須是綠色的，因為任何其他解決方案都是半步。對綠色氫的關注是我們在美國建立第一個綠色氫網絡的原因。到 2025 年，我們每天將擁有超過 500 噸，並將與西班牙 ACCIONA 等合作夥伴在世界各地複制這個網絡。這也是我們收購知道如何建造氫氣工廠、生產氫氣、利用電解槽、液化氫氣（例如我們最近收購 Joule）和運輸氫氣的公司的原因。

We are also leveraging all the learnings from our own years of experience to make these offerings better. This journey will continue as we explore partnerships for pipeline and storage. Plug cannot only provide the green hydrogen but also the apps. We have built more fuel cells than anyone else in the world, fuel cells that can be used in a variety of applications, from powering forklift trucks for Home Depot, for on-road vehicles with our JV with Renault, stationary products with SK, and you'll see more and more apps in the future.

我們還利用我們多年經驗中的所有經驗來改進這些產品。隨著我們探索管道和存儲的合作夥伴關係，這一旅程將繼續下去。 Plug不僅提供綠色氫氣，還提供應用程序。我們製造的燃料電池比世界上任何其他公司都多，燃料電池可用於各種應用，從為 Home Depot 的叉車提供動力，到與雷諾合資的公路車輛，與 SK 的固定產品，以及將來您會看到越來越多的應用程序。

We believe that green hydrogen creates the possibility that the business can continue to double for years and years to come. We believe the future is now. Like many have been watching the tragedies unfolding in Ukraine, this crisis is highlighting to people and nations that autocratic governments can't be the gas stations to the world. Liberal democracies will be accelerating the energy transition because of this horrible event. And Plug is uniquely positioned to create the future as we can help people, companies and governments transition to a carbon-free solution, not in some distant future but today. We can do this because in very simple terms, Plug creates and builds real Plug products today for this new world. Paul, Sanjay and I are now ready to take your questions.

我們相信，綠色氫能創造業務在未來數年繼續翻番的可能性。我們相信未來就是現在。就像許多人一直在關注烏克蘭發生的悲劇一樣，這場危機正在向人民和國家強調，專制政府不能成為世界的加油站。由於這一可怕的事件，自由民主國家將加速能源轉型。 Plug 在創造未來方面具有獨特的優勢，因為我們可以幫助人們、公司和政府過渡到無碳解決方案，而不是在遙遠的未來，而是在今天。我們可以做到這一點，因為簡單來說，Plug 為這個新世界創造和構建了真正的 Plug 產品。保羅、桑杰和我現在準備好回答你的問題了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our first question today comes from James West of Evercore ISI.

我們今天的第一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 James West。

So first one from me. I don't think you announced any new green H2 production facilities or any offtake agreements yet. Am I right about that? Or should we be expecting those announcements very soon?

所以我的第一個。我認為你們尚未宣布任何新的綠色 H2 生產設施或任何承購協議。我說得對嗎？還是我們應該很快期待這些公告？

It's one of the reasons I have Sanjay here with me. Let me -- let Sanjay talk on that, James.

這是我讓桑杰和我在一起的原因之一。讓我——讓桑傑談談，詹姆斯。

So let me first talk about the plans, right? So again, as we said, we plan to have 3 plants built in 2022. And we said that we were actually looking to break ground on many more this year, right? So that actually gives you basically a network here in North America by the end of 2023 and early 2024. And as it relates to actually our offtake agreements for this green hydrogen, first off, we talked about this a little bit in our shareholder letter. Our funnel right now, the sales funnel for that is about 600 tons per day, right? It comes from a variety of different markets, mobility market, industrial application and natural gas blending. And our goal here, as Andy talked about it before, is to secure about 200 tons for that offtake. So you absolutely should be expecting to hear more about it as we go into Q2 of this year in terms of new announcement and signing of these deals.

那麼讓我先談談計劃，對吧？再說一遍，正如我們所說，我們計劃在 2022 年建造 3 座工廠。我們說我們實際上希望在今年破土動工，對吧？因此，到 2023 年底和 2024 年初，這實際上為您在北美提供了一個網絡。由於它實際上與我們對這種綠色氫的承購協議有關，首先，我們在股東信中談到了這一點。我們現在的漏斗，那個銷售漏斗每天大約 600 噸，對吧？它來自各種不同的市場、移動市場、工業應用和天然氣混合。正如安迪之前談到的那樣，我們的目標是為這次承購確保大約 200 噸。因此，隨著我們進入今年第二季度，就新公告和這些交易的簽署而言，您絕對應該期待聽到更多關於它的信息。

Okay. Great. Great. And then just a follow-up from me. The gigafactory in Upstate, where does that stand today? Are we rolling out production? What does the production ramp look like?

好的。偉大的。偉大的。然後只是我的後續行動。北部的超級工廠，今天它在哪裡？我們正在推出生產嗎？生產坡道是什麼樣的？

Production ramp really starts heavy in early April, James. We have started making some electrolyzer stacks there. We -- if you go there today, not only do you see -- you see the plate-stamping equipment. We're well, well positioned. I think in May, James, I think, we'll be inviting you all up there to Rochester to show off the new facility to the analysts and our investors. So we're planning a big day in May to have a real showcase to walk everyone around.

詹姆斯，生產量從 4 月初開始真正開始。我們已經開始在那裡製造一些電解槽。我們——如果你今天去那裡，你不僅會看到——你會看到印版設備。我們很好，位置很好。我想在 5 月，詹姆斯，我想，我們會邀請你們到羅切斯特去向分析師和我們的投資者展示新設施。因此，我們計劃在 5 月舉辦一個重要的日子，舉辦一個真正的展示會，讓大家四處走走。

The next question is from Craig Irwin of ROTH Capital Partners.

下一個問題來自 ROTH Capital Partners 的 Craig Irwin。

So Andy, there's a lot of moving parts at Plug right now, right? You've got so many different initiatives, so many fantastic partners, your product lines. Just a lot of things to really work through. So can you help us prioritize the key drivers of improving margins over the course of 2022? So in your shareholder letter, you talked a little bit about some of the changes that have been made on the service side to improve the serviceability, reliability and economics of service for both Plug and your customers. You've got the gigafactory coming online with obviously, utilization, revenue from the electrolyzer business and everything else that's working. You've got green hydrogen coming on. There's a lot of different things that can really move the margins in a positive way. How would you rank these different initiatives? And which ones do you think will make sort of the higher dollar margin contribution to the company as we exit '22?

所以安迪，現在 Plug 有很多活動部件，對吧？你有這麼多不同的計劃，這麼多出色的合作夥伴，你的產品線。只是有很多事情需要真正解決。那麼，您能否幫助我們優先考慮 2022 年提高利潤率的關鍵驅動因素？所以在你的股東信中，你談到了一些在服務方面所做的改變，以提高 Plug 和你的客戶的服務的可維護性、可靠性和經濟性。你已經讓超級工廠上線了，顯然，電解器業務的利用率、收入以及其他一切都在運作。你有綠色的氫來了。有很多不同的事情可以真正以積極的方式推動利潤。您如何對這些不同的舉措進行排名？當我們退出 22 年時，您認為哪些會為公司帶來更高的美元利潤貢獻？

I think by far, Craig, the top priority for margins is the green hydrogen network we're building out. That focus and having 70 tons per day of green hydrogen will have a dramatic impact on our margins. That will start to ramp at the end of 2022 and have significant impact on 2023. That will take a business that is negative margins today to Sanjay, you expect that to be a 30% margin business.

我認為到目前為止，克雷格，利潤的重中之重是我們正在建設的綠色氫網絡。這種專注和每天 70 噸的綠色氫氣將對我們的利潤產生巨大影響。這將在 2022 年底開始增加，並對 2023 年產生重大影響。這將把今天利潤率為負的業務帶到 Sanjay，您預計這將是 30% 的利潤率業務。

Absolutely, Andy.

當然，安迪。

And by the end of 2023, we should be in that position, Craig. And then when you think about service, what I'm really thrilled about was the 5,000 units that we put out in the field, which represented our latest technology. And those units, we already have seen a 50% reduction in service costs. I think from a dollar point of view, it won't be as big as green hydrogen, but it will be significant. And look, scale matters and production facilities matter. And the work that we're doing in the production facility, we expect to start seeing continued improvement even with this very difficult supply chain. We brought in, I think you know, Craig, a lot of the leadership who worked in the Tesla gigafactory in Reno, Nevada, and they've already identified significant cost savings for our products without changing them, even in this very, very difficult climate we exist in today.

到 2023 年底，我們應該處於那個位置，克雷格。然後當你想到服務時，我真正興奮的是我們在現場推出的 5,000 台設備，這代表了我們的最新技術。而這些單位，我們已經看到服務成本降低了 50%。我認為從美元的角度來看，它不會像綠色氫那麼大，但它會很重要。看，規模很重要，生產設施很重要。而我們在生產設施中所做的工作，我們希望即使在這個非常困難的供應鏈中也能看到持續的改進。我們引進了，我想你知道，克雷格，許多在內華達州里諾的特斯拉超級工廠工作的領導，他們已經確定我們的產品在不改變產品的情況下可以顯著節省成本，即使在這個非常非常困難的情況下我們今天存在的氣候。

Excellent. So then as a follow-up, and again, to keep things simple in the context of understanding the levers that are going to drive margins, right? 70 tons per day exiting 2022, what portion of your total production is that? And then what would that be actually in 2022 -- or sorry, not production but customer demand, your sell-through? And is it fair to assume those target margins of 30% are what you're probably achieving on some of these early green hydrogen sales? Does that simply mathematically come into the mix?

優秀。那麼作為後續行動，再次，在理解將推動利潤率的槓桿的背景下保持簡單，對吧？ 2022 年每天 70 噸，佔你們總產量的多少？那麼到 2022 年實際上會是什麼——或者對不起，不是生產，而是客戶需求，你的銷售量？假設這些 30% 的目標利潤率是您可能在這些早期的綠色氫銷售中實現的目標，這是否公平？這只是數學上的混合嗎？

I'm going to let Sanjay take that since, as you know, Craig, he runs that business every day.

我會讓桑傑接手，因為你知道，克雷格，他每天都在經營這家公司。

Yes. So Craig, as you know, right, I mean, I think once we get to producing 70 tons per day, couple of points to highlight here, right? I mean, look, as you've already pointed out, just by looking at our margin here in the near term, you can actually extract what kind of pricing we're paying for it and you can also extract what kind of ASP we have, right? We've shared with you all what is going to be that cost of green hydrogen even with our first plant and how that costs continuously go down with plant #2, plant #3, right? So without even -- with a similar pricing of what our customers are paying for gray hydrogen today, with our in-house production of green hydrogen, yes, you're absolutely right, you will see that 30% kind of a gross margin in that business, number one.

是的。所以克雷格，如你所知，對，我的意思是，我認為一旦我們每天生產 70 噸，這裡有幾點需要強調，對吧？我的意思是，看，正如你已經指出的那樣，只要在短期內查看我們的利潤，你實際上可以提取我們為它支付的價格，你還可以提取我們有什麼樣的 ASP ， 正確的？我們已經與大家分享了綠色氫氣的成本，即使是我們的第一座工廠，以及如何隨著工廠 #2、工廠 #3 的成本不斷下降，對吧？因此，即使我們的客戶今天為灰氫支付的價格與我們內部生產的綠色氫的價格相似，是的，你絕對正確，你會看到 30% 的毛利率那個生意，第一。

Number two, things only get better as you go through 2023 and if you go into 2024, right, because we're going to keep adding more production capacity. In terms of our internal demand, that number is between 40 to 50 tons per day, right? That's what our demand is. So as we get to 70 tons, as we get to bigger numbers, this will have multiple effects. One, we actually have an opportunity to sell it to additional new customers, additional new markets. And another thing that also allows us to do is, and this is something very important to us. And in our opinion, very important to the entire hydrogen economy, which is help industry get through all these force majeure challenges that you often see, right? Make sure green hydrogen is economical, ubiquitous. So once this North American network gets built, logistics cost will go down, cost of our green hydrogen continues to go down. And without even changing the pricing structure, we feel very comfortable about the fact that you should see a step change in our margins.

第二，到 2023 年，情況只會變得更好，如果進入 2024 年，對，因為我們將繼續增加更多的生產能力。就我們內部的需求而言，這個數字在每天 40 到 50 噸之間，對吧？這就是我們的要求。因此，當我們達到 70 噸時，當我們達到更大的數量時，這將產生多重影響。一，我們實際上有機會將其出售給更多的新客戶，更多的新市場。另一件也允許我們做的事情是，這對我們來說非常重要。在我們看來，這對整個氫能經濟非常重要，這有助於行業克服您經常看到的所有這些不可抗力挑戰，對吧？確保綠色氫是經濟的、無處不在的。所以一旦這個北美網絡建成，物流成本就會下降，我們的綠色氫的成本會繼續下降。甚至在不改變定價結構的情況下，我們對您應該看到我們的利潤率發生階梯式變化這一事實感到非常滿意。

The next question is from Colin Rusch of Oppenheimer.

下一個問題來自奧本海默的 Colin Rusch。

Can you give us a sense of the applications for the green hydrogen demand in the 1,000 tons per day pipeline? Like what percentage is refining and how much of it is material handling and over-the-road type of transportation?

您能給我們介紹一下每天 1000 噸管道中綠色氫氣需求的應用嗎？比如煉油的百分比是多少，材料處理和公路運輸有多少？

Colin, you're making Sanjay do a lot of work. Good to hear from you, Colin.

科林，你讓桑傑做了很多工作。很高興收到你的來信，科林。

Yes, certainly, he needs the workout, man.

是的，當然，他需要鍛煉，伙計。

Yes. Let me let Sanjay take that one.

是的。讓我讓桑傑拿走那個。

Thank you, Andy. So Colin, I think when we talk about the 600 tons of sales funnel, right, call it about it's 50-or-so opportunities, right? And look, I think in that mix, obviously, you can imagine that some of our existing customers that are transitioning from gray to green hydrogen, which means it's in material handling, which means it's also in new apps like stationary and some of the mobility opportunity, right? That certainly makes up a pretty important chunk of that. Then you go forward and then you look at some of the recent announcement we made with customers like Certarus, right, where they're actually buying some of our green hydrogen. We have 10 tons per day offtake agreement with them, and that is more for blending purposes, right, where you can actually start to -- almost like a virtual natural gas pipeline where you're starting to do green hydrogen blending, right? Then beyond that, we have a lot of opportunities surrounding refining industry as well and some of the mainstream industrial application as well, right?

謝謝你，安迪。所以科林，我認為當我們談論 600 噸的銷售漏斗時，對，稱之為 50 左右的機會，對吧？看，我認為在這種組合中，很明顯，你可以想像我們現有的一些客戶正在從灰氫過渡到綠氫，這意味著它在材料處理領域，這意味著它也在新的應用程序中，比如固定和一些移動性機會，對吧？這當然構成了其中相當重要的一部分。然後你繼續前進，然後你看看我們最近與 Certarus 等客戶發布的一些公告，對，他們實際上是在購買我們的一些綠色氫。我們與他們簽訂了每天 10 噸的承購協議，這更多是出於混合目的，對，您可以實際開始 - 幾乎就像您開始進行綠色氫混合的虛擬天然氣管道，對嗎？那麼除此之外，我們在煉油行業以及一些主流工業應用方面也有很多機會，對吧？

So it's a pretty broad mix, if you would, call it, when you really think about it. It's not just your traditional transportation market-type application. So the funnel is pretty broad. And our goal here is to really get that 600 ton to be more former somewhere around that 200 tons per day by the end of the year, and that's what we're working towards.

所以這是一個相當廣泛的組合，如果你願意的話，當你真正考慮它時，稱之為。這不僅僅是您的傳統運輸市場類型的應用程序。所以漏斗是相當廣泛的。我們的目標是在今年年底之前真正將這 600 噸的產量提高到每天 200 噸左右，這就是我們正在努力實現的目標。

Okay. That's super helpful. And then in some of these projects where you're bidding in electrolyzer capacity, I'm just curious what the competitive landscape is and how aggressive it is. You guys have talked about the fact that you're actually building things, which is a competitive advantage. But I'm curious how vicious the competition is at this point from a cost perspective and just a technology performance perspective.

好的。這非常有幫助。然後在您競標電解槽產能的其中一些項目中，我只是好奇競爭格局是什麼以及它有多激進。你們已經談到了這樣一個事實，即你們實際上是在構建東西，這是一個競爭優勢。但我很好奇，從成本角度和技術性能角度來看，此時的競爭有多激烈。

Colin, like many businesses, the first gate with customers are, are these people capable of designing a system that can meet their needs. And I think in that area, when you think about the hydrogen ecosystem we've built out, the kind of companies we acquired, we walked through that first gate, I think, cleaner than our competition in most cases. I think when I look at that, that's a real differential advantage.

Colin 和許多企業一樣，第一道門是客戶，這些人是否有能力設計一個能夠滿足他們需求的系統。我認為在那個領域，當你想到我們建立的氫生態系統，我們收購的那種公司時，我認為，在大多數情況下，我們走過的第一扇門比我們的競爭對手更乾淨。我認為當我看到這一點時，這是一個真正的差異化優勢。

And then the second gate is, we have a factory that can build stacks for electrolyzers. That's a big differential advantage. I think the combined fact that we're experienced, that we can build the product, we make decisions. And my first criteria with our sales force in electrolyzer is really us screening the customers and not to be pretentious about it. But we screen, and my first question to the sales team is always, are we working with people who actually can build a plant, that they understand the basics? Can they be -- can they fund their projects? Do they have an application, knowledge of an application, where it can be used?

然後第二個門是，我們有一家可以為電解槽建造堆棧的工廠。這是一個很大的差異化優勢。我認為我們經驗豐富，我們可以構建產品，我們做出決定的綜合事實。我對電解槽銷售人員的第一個標準是我們篩選客戶而不是自命不凡。但是我們進行篩選，我向銷售團隊提出的第一個問題始終是，我們是否與真正可以建造工廠的人合作，他們是否了解基礎知識？他們可以——他們可以資助他們的項目嗎？他們是否有應用程序，應用程序知識，可以在哪裡使用？

And in many ways, the screening process is the other way around. Now you take what we're doing with Orascom over in Egypt. You're dealing with people who really know [how to build and how to design a plant]. You're dealing with folks who are well funded. You're dealing with folks who have an application of green ammonia, which you can substitute green hydrogen today for gray hydrogen. So the screening process is actually the other way around for Plug at the moment. So I would say when you start looking at a $13 billion funnel, you're really beginning to screen through who really can execute.

在許多方面，篩選過程是相反的。現在你接受我們在埃及與 Orascom 所做的事情。您正在與真正知道[如何建造和如何設計工廠]的人打交道。您正在與資金充足的人打交道。您正在與應用綠色氨的人打交道，您今天可以用綠色氫代替灰色氫。因此，目前對於 Plug 而言，篩選過程實際上是相反的。所以我想說，當你開始查看 130 億美元的漏斗時，你真的開始篩選誰真正可以執行。

The next question is from Greg Lewis of BTIG.

下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Greg Lewis。

Andy, always a pleasure to talk to you. I was hoping for a little color. This morning, I guess there was an announcement that a company is looking to move forward with a green hydrogen project in Houston, I believe, a 100-megawatt project. Realizing that Plug was -- is a first mover, was never going to be the only supplier of green hydrogen in the U.S. But as we think about that, are projects like that something the company is actively going after with their integrated solution? Or is it at this stage in the game, we have a couple of big key customers we're looking to supply, obviously, in Australia and elsewhere as well as building out your existing hydrogen network in the U.S.? Just trying to understand if, as we see more projects like these, these are opportunities for Plug.

安迪，很高興與您交談。我希望有一點顏色。今天早上，我猜有一家公司正在尋求在休斯頓推進一個綠色氫項目的公告，我相信這是一個 100 兆瓦的項目。意識到 Plug 是 - 是先行者，永遠不會成為美國唯一的綠色氫供應商。但是當我們想到這一點時，公司是否正在通過他們的集成解決方案積極追求這樣的項目？或者是在遊戲的這個階段，我們顯然希望在澳大利亞和其他地方供應幾個大的關鍵客戶，並在美國建立你現有的氫網絡？只是想了解，當我們看到更多這樣的項目時，這些是否是 Plug 的機會。

So Greg, I know that project quite well.

所以格雷格，我非常了解那個項目。

Good to hear.

很高興聽到。

I'm well familiar with it, and Plug is well familiar with it. It's a very interesting project. And we're really -- we know it.

我很熟悉，Plug也很熟悉。這是一個非常有趣的項目。我們真的 - 我們知道。

Okay. But so I guess really what I'm trying to understand is as we think about your manufacturing capacity across your business lines, you do have excess capacity to kind of be a supplier to some of these new -- to a potential wave of projects beyond just what the company is targeting for its own capacity.

好的。但是，所以我想我真正想了解的是，當我們考慮您的整個業務線的製造能力時，您確實有多餘的能力來成為其中一些新項目的供應商——超越潛在的項目浪潮正是該公司針對自身能力的目標。

That is absolutely correct, Greg. And look, we're looking to increase capacity in ways that go beyond just putting more equipment in. When you're at this stage of a business, you can improve capacity by making enhancements to the product. A lot of work going on with the electrolyzer MEA. How to up the power of the same MEA by 50% and having the same takt time? So we feel well positioned with our present factory.

這是絕對正確的，格雷格。看，我們正在尋求增加產能的方式不僅僅是增加設備。當您處於業務的這個階段時，您可以通過增強產品來提高產能。電解槽 MEA 正在進行大量工作。如何將相同 MEA 的功率提高 50% 並保持相同的節拍時間？所以我們對我們現在的工廠感覺很好。

The other item I'd like to highlight is if you go look at that factory, there is, I think, today, 300-plus pieces of equipment that have been specified and have been designed and integrated so that we can take that model and duplicate it again. So I feel we have plenty of capacity for 2023. But we are -- and we are, Greg, looking at -- and one of our items for this year is, where do you build the next gigafactory?

我想強調的另一個項目是，如果你去看看那個工廠，我想，今天有 300 多台設備已經被指定、設計和集成，以便我們可以採用那個模型和再次復制它。所以我覺得我們在 2023 年有足夠的產能。但是我們正在——而且我們正在，Greg，正在關注——今年我們的項目之一是，你在哪裡建造下一個超級工廠？

The next question is from Eric Stine of Craig-Hallum.

下一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum 的 Eric Stine。

So maybe just on materials handling, I know you've got the 5 pedestal customers you mentioned in your write-up, that you've got 3 near-term, 2 in the EU, 1 in North America. Just curious how we should think about those maybe playing out in terms of announcements throughout this year. And then curious, as you think about your 2025 expectations or outlook, is there a number you have in mind for the ultimate number of materials-handling customers?

所以也許只是在材料處理方面，我知道你有你在文章中提到的 5 個基座客戶，你有 3 個短期客戶，2 個在歐盟，1 個在北美。只是好奇我們應該如何考慮那些可能在今年全年發布的公告。然後很好奇，當您考慮 2025 年的期望或前景時，您是否想到了材料處理客戶的最終數量？

That's a good question, Eric. And let me step back from the question and highlight the fact how important Europe is becoming to Plug Power. Europe, when you start looking at the pure-play hydrogen and fuel cell players, Plug probably has the largest staff or the second-largest staff in Europe. We have the facility in the Netherlands. I'm about to go to the grand opening to our facility in Germany in mid-March. We are well positioned in Europe. And when I look at Europe, Jose has about 5 or 6 customers on his list to reach the level of pedestal customers for Europe, all who we've been doing business with.

這是個好問題，埃里克。讓我退後一步，強調歐洲對 Plug Power 的重要性。歐洲，當你開始關注純氫和燃料電池廠商時，Plug 可能擁有歐洲最大或第二大員工。我們在荷蘭有工廠。我即將參加 3 月中旬我們在德國的工廠的盛大開幕式。我們在歐洲處於有利地位。當我查看歐洲時，Jose 在他的名單上大約有 5 或 6 個客戶，以達到歐洲的基本客戶水平，所有這些客戶都是我們一直在做生意的。

And in the U.S., I think the announcement will come first, there's one customer that we're in final stages of to announce. I think ultimately, I'd like to think about it like Jose. I think Jose has outlined for 2030, what we as a business have to do to achieve $4 billion in revenue in that sector, and that's really our target. I think you'll probably also see as the products become simpler, as the hydrogen systems become simpler, there'll probably be more work on channels also, and that will become more important for the business. So I don't know if there's an ultimate number for pedestal customers. I think there's a goal for market share that we believe penetration rates can be in the 20% level by 2030.

在美國，我認為公告將首先發布，我們正處於最後階段宣布的一個客戶。我認為最終，我想像何塞一樣考慮它。我認為 Jose 已經概述了 2030 年，我們作為一家企業必須做些什麼才能在該領域實現 40 億美元的收入，而這確實是我們的目標。我想你可能還會看到，隨著產品變得更簡單，隨著氫系統變得更簡單，可能還會有更多的渠道工作，這對企業來說將變得更加重要。所以我不知道是否有基座客戶的最終數量。我認為市場份額的目標是我們相信到 2030 年滲透率可以達到 20% 的水平。

Got you. Well, that's a good segue. Actually I was curious I know years ago, you'd acquired -- I mean, it was a small acquisition, but it was a reformer company (inaudible). Potentially, how do you expand the market into sites with fewer forklifts? Just curious given what you're building out on the green hydrogen side and the cost profile coming down. Maybe some thoughts about where that process stands and how you see that playing out going forward getting into those smaller sites.

得到你。嗯，這是一個很好的選擇。實際上，我很好奇，我知道幾年前你已經收購了——我的意思是，這是一筆小額收購，但它是一家改革者公司（聽不清）。潛在地，您如何將市場擴展到叉車較少的站點？只是好奇，考慮到你在綠色氫方面的建設和成本下降。也許對這個過程的位置以及你如何看待進入那些較小的站點的進展有一些想法。

Yes. Good question, Craig (sic) [Eric]. And when I think about it -- and we've been doing some work already, we are developing a 50-kilogram per day system, which is much smaller, which looks more like gas delivery, which can be done either through Sanjay's hydrogen plants or actually through -- think about Walmart as a depot point. And we actually do this today where we pick up gas at Walmart and may move it to another customer when it makes sense. What we're designing are smaller systems, much lower cost. So essentially that you'll have a 40-foot container, pick it up, drop it off, come back 3 days later, put a new container in place, which not to divert, but I will, a little, but it also is very similar to how we will maintain units at smaller sites.

是的。好問題，克雷格（原文如此）[埃里克]。當我考慮到這一點時——我們已經做了一些工作，我們正在開發一個每天 50 公斤的系統，這個系統要小得多，看起來更像是氣體輸送，可以通過 Sanjay 的氫氣工廠完成或者實際上是通過 - 將沃爾瑪視為一個倉庫。我們今天實際上是這樣做的，我們在沃爾瑪取油，並可能在有意義的時候將其轉移給另一個客戶。我們正在設計的系統更小，成本更低。所以基本上你會有一個 40 英尺的集裝箱，拿起它，放下它，3 天后回來，放一個新的集裝箱，這不是為了轉移，但我會，一點點，但它也是非常類似於我們將如何在較小的站點維護單元。

We have a universal engine, we're calling it, that comes out by the end of this year. And not only those sites will not require service people, but we'll be able to deliver hydrogen, take care of any issues that are on site when we drop by. The modules will be able to be picked up and taken back to a centralized center if they need any work. That's really clear. And both of those projects are being done, and they are really closely linked together, will be finished by year's end. And we expect to ship probably 1,000 -- 500 to 1,000 of our universal engine by year's end, which reduces both the product cost, but also the service cost. And Eric, if you want to call me another time, I'll be happy to give you more of a detail on that one because it is interesting.

我們有一個通用引擎，我們稱之為它，它會在今年年底推出。不僅這些站點不需要服務人員，而且我們將能夠提供氫氣，在我們路過時處理現場的任何問題。如果需要任何工作，這些模塊將能夠被拾取並帶回集中中心。這真的很清楚。並且這兩個項目都在進行中，它們之間的聯繫非常緊密，將在年底前完成。我們預計到今年年底，我們的通用發動機可能會出貨 1,000 - 500 到 1,000 台，這既降低了產品成本，又降低了服務成本。還有埃里克，如果你想再給我打電話，我很樂意為你提供更多關於那個的細節，因為這很有趣。

Yes. I'll take you up on that at some point. .

是的。我會在某個時候告訴你。 .

And I did do it justice.

我確實做到了公正。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our next question is from P.J. Juvekar of Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 P.J. Juvekar。

My first question is on HYVIA. I think the sales should ramp up in the joint venture in 2022. How many vehicles do you think you can make this year given sort of these difficult supply chain backdrops and chip shortages? And just tell us about how do you see this JV ramping up.

我的第一個問題是關於 HYVIA。我認為 2022 年合資企業的銷量應該會增加。鑑於這些困難的供應鏈背景和芯片短缺，您認為今年可以生產多少輛汽車？告訴我們您如何看待這家合資企業的發展。

Yes. first, let me take a step back and say I am thrilled with the work at the JV. We have people who are Plug people in France every week. I think we have folks from France who's been coming to Plug. We expect that -- I reviewed it this morning, we expect that we will be shipping approximately 250 vehicles this year, probably to a list of about 20 different customers. So it's a wide variety of customers. That Master van product can be leveraged to deliver goods by people like Amazon. And it is a real, real attractive offering.

是的。首先，讓我退後一步，說我對在合資企業的工作感到興奮。我們每週都有在法國的 Plug 人。我想我們有來自法國的人來了 Plug。我們預計——我今天早上回顧了它，我們預計今年我們將運送大約 250 輛汽車，可能會運送給大約 20 個不同客戶的名單。因此，它的客戶種類繁多。像亞馬遜這樣的人可以利用 Master van 產品來運送貨物。這是一個真正的、真正有吸引力的產品。

By 2030, we expect to deliver about 250,000 of those units. I know that it's another facility. I think I'm going to a grand opening March 14, 15, Teal, for a grand opening of the HYVIA manufacturing facility in France. So it is -- and I've been around a long time, outside, back at other companies like Lucent. It is a really well-run, very thoughtful product development cycle that we're just really pleased. So the Master van will be on the road. We'll have the People Mover that will come by year's end. There's work going on with taxis. There will be a next-generation platform where there's work going on for 2 to 3 years out. So P.J., I'm really pleased, and I think 2023, with all the seeding we're doing with customers this year, I think 2023 will continue to grow and ramp.

到 2030 年，我們預計將交付大約 250,000 台此類設備。我知道這是另一個設施。我想我將參加 15 年 3 月 14 日在 Teal 舉行的盛大開幕式，參加法國 HYVIA 製造工廠的盛大開幕式。就是這樣——而且我已經在外面呆了很長時間，回到朗訊等其他公司。這是一個運行良好、非常周到的產品開發週期，我們非常高興。因此，Master van 將在路上。我們將在年底前推出 People Mover。出租車的工作正在進行中。將有一個下一代平台，其中的工作將持續 2 到 3 年。所以 P.J.，我真的很高興，我認為 2023 年，隨著我們今年與客戶進行的所有播種，我認為 2023 年將繼續增長和增長。

Right. And my second question is maybe for Sanjay. As you ramp up your hydrogen production, what kind of investments do you need in logistics, like trucks and liquefaction tanks and all that kind of stuff, storage tanks? Do you have that built out as well?

正確的。我的第二個問題可能是針對 Sanjay。隨著氫氣產量的增加，您需要在物流方面進行哪些投資，例如卡車和液化罐以及所有類似的東西，儲罐？你也有這個嗎？

Great question, P.J., right? So let's take a step back, right? Typically, how we think about it is like when you talk about a 15-ton plant, you need about 7 liquid tankers to deliver that hydrogen, right? That number could go down as the network really gets built out through the U.S., right? So you can actually leverage plants even better than even one-off plants, if you would, right? And as you've seen, right, with the acquisition of Applied Cryo, now we can build our own tankers. We can build our own on-site storage. We can do the vaporizer. So it really puts us in a position where we can not only control the delivery time line, we can also reduce the cost and really think about building it faster, and that's totally in our control as a part of our vertical integration strategy, right?

好問題，P.J.，對吧？所以讓我們退後一步，對吧？通常情況下，當您談論一個 15 噸的工廠時，我們如何看待它，您需要大約 7 輛液罐車來運送氫氣，對吧？隨著網絡真正通過美國建立起來，這個數字可能會下降，對吧？所以你實際上可以利用植物甚至比一次性植物更好，如果你願意的話，對吧？正如你所看到的，對了，通過收購 Applied Cryo，我們現在可以建造自己的油輪了。我們可以建立自己的現場存儲。我們可以做汽化器。因此，它確實使我們處於一個不僅可以控制交付時間線的位置，還可以降低成本並真正考慮更快地構建它，作為我們垂直整合戰略的一部分，這完全在我們的控制之中，對嗎？

And also in Q1 of this year, you saw that we made an acquisition of Joule Processing, right, that gets us into the liquefaction business. So when you now take a step back and think about our capability in the green hydrogen generation business, we have our own electrolyzer, we're the largest user of it, and we're looking to sell it to the third parties, right? We now have our own liquefaction capabilities. We're using it ourselves, and we believe it will actually rival some of the energy efficiency, kilowatt hour per kilogram of electricity uses versus some of the better liquefiers out there in the market out of the gate. And we see a path where the energy consumption could even get better as you go forward. That's very important to continue to reduce the cost of green hydrogen, and finally, from a logistics perspective, now we're able to make it all ourselves. So it really puts us in a very unique position from, we buy renewable power and we do everything else. If customer's looking for gaseous hydrogen, we can provide that. They're looking for component, we can provide that. They're looking for liquid hydrogen, we can provide that. They're looking for liquefiers or the tankers, we can provide that as well. So we feel very, very good about the team that has now become a part of Plug Power, and we see a lot of great things coming out of it.

同樣在今年第一季度，您看到我們收購了 Joule Processing，對，這讓我們進入了液化業務。因此，當您現在退一步考慮我們在綠色制氫業務方面的能力時，我們擁有自己的電解槽，我們是它的最大用戶，我們正在尋求將其出售給第三方，對嗎？我們現在擁有自己的液化能力。我們自己也在使用它，我們相信它實際上會在能源效率（每公斤用電量的千瓦時）方面與市場上一些更好的液化器相媲美。我們看到了一條道路，隨著您的前進，能源消耗甚至會變得更好。繼續降低綠色氫的成本非常重要，最後，從物流的角度來看，現在我們可以自己製造了。所以它真的讓我們處於一個非常獨特的位置，我們購買可再生能源，我們做其他所有事情。如果客戶需要氣態氫，我們可以提供。他們正在尋找組件，我們可以提供。他們正在尋找液態氫，我們可以提供。他們正在尋找液化器或油輪，我們也可以提供。所以我們對現在已經成為 Plug Power 一部分的團隊感覺非常非常好，我們看到了很多很棒的事情。

The next question is from Bill Peterson of JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的比爾·彼得森。

The first question I have is related to the deal (inaudible) last week. It's kind of an RFI request for information phase with feedback due by the end of March. So you have the Section 816 for electrolyzers, 813 for hubs. Look, I know you guys are aiming for coverage in most of the country [net] projects. At least your first set of projects are ahead of any hubs that arrive. But I guess my first question is, is Plug doing anything in terms of engagement? Or I guess, is it important to kind of steer the direction? And then secondarily, what are your expectations, if there are any, in terms of benefits from some of these announced things from the bipartisan infrastructure laws?

我的第一個問題與上週的交易（聽不清）有關。這是一種 RFI 信息請求階段，反饋截止日期為 3 月底。所以你有電解槽的第 816 節，集線器的第 813 節。看，我知道你們的目標是覆蓋大多數國家 [網絡] 項目。至少您的第一組項目領先於任何到達的中心。但我想我的第一個問題是，Plug 在參與度方面有沒有做任何事情？或者我想，引導方向重要嗎？其次，您對兩黨基礎設施法公佈的一些規定的好處有什麼期望（如果有的話）？

So Bill, I will say this first, if there's a hub in the -- the hubs in the U.S., every one of them will use Plug Power products, in my opinion. We have been deeply involved in all the hubs that are going on across the country. But specifically here in New York, I think if you look, there was a press release put out by Senator Schumer right after the RFI came out, where Senator Schumer highlighted Plug Power 3 times in the press release, and that we've been working very closely with the folks at NYSERDA and other folks in the Northeast, thinking through how you make New York the green hydrogen hub for the country.

所以比爾，我首先要說的是，如果在美國有一個集線器，我認為每個集線器都會使用 Plug Power 產品。我們深入參與了全國各地正在發生的所有樞紐。但特別是在紐約，我想如果你看一下，在 RFI 出來後，參議員 Schumer 發布了一份新聞稿，其中參議員 Schumer 在新聞稿中強調了 Plug Power 3 次，我們一直在努力與 NYSERDA 的人們和東北部的其他人密切合作，思考如何讓紐約成為該國的綠色氫能樞紐。

So we are actively involved -- I'm sitting here with Gerry Conway, who's my government affairs person. He's here with me. We meet -- they meet daily. I meet twice a week with them on the work with the hubs. My view of the hubs and a successful hub is one that builds the foundation for the future. I don't view the hub as a single government grant that allows you to build something. I view it as how do you build a hydrogen pipeline that many people can put hydrogen in and many people can take hydrogen out. And that's how we're trying to help folks think through this, is that, this is not a onetime $8 billion opportunity. This is an opportunity in 4 places or maybe more across United States that build the foundations for the hydrogen economy that really can help grow not only our business but this entire industry.

所以我們積極參與——我和我的政府事務人員 Gerry Conway 坐在這裡。他在我這裡。我們見面——他們每天見面。我每週與他們會面兩次，討論與集線器有關的工作。我對樞紐和成功樞紐的看法是為未來奠定基礎的觀點。我不認為這個中心是一個單一的政府撥款，可以讓你建造一些東西。我認為它是如何建造一個氫氣管道，許多人可以輸入氫氣，許多人可以取出氫氣。這就是我們試圖幫助人們思考這個問題的方式，這不是一次性的 80 億美元的機會。這是美國 4 個或更多地方的機會，它們為氫經濟奠定了基礎，不僅可以幫助我們發展業務，還可以幫助發展整個行業。

Okay. Second question, I guess, is somewhat related, but it's also related to a few other earlier questions. When we think about your sort of merchant business for electrolyzers as well as captive for your green hydrogen production, I guess you have -- I know you've announced some projects in the U.S., but I guess how important is it also, let's say, I don't know, say, gain share or sell outside of your captive business? Or would you expect these opportunities to be addressed by competitors? And I guess, really, holistically, what is your win rate? You kind of talked earlier about you're being somewhat selective on this. But just curious, obviously, you have Australia and Egypt and other things overseas. But curious how you view other hydrogen projects in the U.S. that are, I'd say, not your own sort of captive production.

好的。我猜第二個問題有點相關，但它也與其他一些早期問題有關。當我們考慮您的電解槽商業業務以及綠色氫氣生產的專屬業務時，我想您已經 - 我知道您已經在美國宣布了一些項目，但我想這也很重要，讓我們說，我不知道，比如說，在您的專屬業務之外獲得份額或出售？或者您是否希望競爭對手能夠利用這些機會？我想，真的，整體上，你的勝率是多少？你之前談到過你在這方面有點選擇性。但只是好奇，很明顯，你在海外有澳大利亞和埃及等東西。但很好奇你如何看待美國的其他氫項目，我想說，這些項目不是你自己的圈養生產。

I would say, Bill, our win rate, the ones that have come to the finish line, is probably close to 50%. And I know if you talk to our team, they would say higher, but probably close to 50%. We're not -- we want to build -- make the pie big. We've been selling -- we're selling to people who are -- who could be competitors to Sanjay. We're leveraging our technology. We believe that a huge pie helps the hydrogen economy. So we're winning deals, and I think we're winning the kind of deals we want. I think that we haven't spoken much about government policy during this discussion, but it could really accelerate here in the United States. We know, we've seen previews of the State of the Union tonight. And in the State of the Union, the President is going to address the need for the climate change legislation where there's a $3 tax credit for green hydrogen, which Senator Manchin supports.

我想說，比爾，我們的勝率，那些到達終點線的，可能接近 50%。我知道如果你和我們的團隊交談，他們會說更高，但可能接近 50%。我們不是——我們想要建立——把餡餅做大。我們一直在銷售——我們正在向那些可能成為桑傑競爭對手的人銷售。我們正在利用我們的技術。我們相信巨大的蛋糕有助於氫經濟。所以我們正在贏得交易，我認為我們正在贏得我們想要的那種交易。我認為在這次討論中我們沒有過多地談論政府政策，但在美國這裡真的可以加速。我們知道，今晚我們已經看到了國情咨文的預覽。在國情咨文中，總統將解決氣候變化立法的需求，其中有 3 美元的綠色氫稅收抵免，曼欽參議員支持。

We think before the election, there will be a climate bill, and we believe there will be a climate bill that's very, very friendly to hydrogen. That portion of the bill in Biden Build Back Better has not been controversial.

我們認為在選舉之前會有一個氣候法案，我們相信會有一個對氫非常非常友好的氣候法案。拜登重建得更好的那部分法案沒有引起爭議。

The next question is from Stephen Byrd of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的斯蒂芬·伯德。

I wanted to explore the U.S. green hydrogen hub opportunity more. I guess as I understand it, I mean, obviously, the infrastructure bill that did pass does include quite a bit of money for these, and we could see, I guess, as many as 8 or more of these hubs. I guess it's unclear. Would you mind just talking a little bit to at least as you understand the process for determining the allocation of these money. Just building on what you mentioned earlier, I wasn't completely sure sort of how dependent you felt you were on that money? I mean you guys are doing so much anyway, but I'm just curious how kind of your work ties into that federal money that's available for hubs.

我想更多地探索美國綠色氫樞紐的機會。我想據我了解，我的意思是，很明顯，通過的基礎設施法案確實包含了相當多的資金用於這些，我猜我們可以看到多達 8 個或更多這樣的集線器。我想還不清楚。至少在您了解確定這些資金分配的過程後，您是否介意稍微談談。只是建立在你之前提到的基礎上，我不完全確定你覺得你對這筆錢有多依賴？我的意思是你們無論如何都做了這麼多，但我只是好奇你們的工作如何與可用於集線器的聯邦資金聯繫起來。

First, I want to make it clear, Stephen, my business plans through 2025 is not dependent upon those hubs. That being said, the hubs are a great opportunity. If you're asking me a process question, as you know, the RFI went out. I think it's due March 8, Gerry, the response to the RFI. Pretty general, the RFI, there's about 20 questions, Gerry.

首先，斯蒂芬，我想明確指出，我到 2025 年的商業計劃不依賴於這些中心。話雖如此，樞紐是一個很好的機會。如您所知，如果您要問我一個流程問題，RFI 就消失了。我想應該是 3 月 8 日，Gerry，對 RFI 的回應。很籠統，RFI，大約有 20 個問題，Gerry。

Yes.

是的。

About 20 questions, which are rather generic, but I think helpful for the DOE to start formulating. We expect the formal RFP, I'm hearing late May, and that I think you would start seeing awards and directions by the end of the year, and it may start out with smaller projects that grow. And that's, I think, the process that's going on at the moment, Stephen.

大約 20 個問題，這些問題相當籠統，但我認為對 DOE 開始製定很有幫助。我們期待正式的 RFP，我在 5 月下旬聽到，我認為您將在今年年底開始看到獎項和方向，並且可能會從較小的項目開始增長。我認為，這就是目前正在進行的過程，斯蒂芬。

And look, we're working closely, as I mentioned, with all the folks. I think there's still, quite honestly, a lot not known about the process. One -- who can lead a hub is one of those debates and discussions that hasn't been clarified yet. But I think the DOE in this RFI is trying to get that clarification. From a Plug perspective, I just see it as additive. Anything that helps grow the hydrogen economy, makes hydrogen more attractive, it's just good for Plug Power because we have all the capabilities to meet people's needs.

看，正如我所提到的，我們正在與所有人密切合作。我認為，老實說，關於這個過程還有很多不為人知的地方。一 - 誰可以領導一個中心是尚未澄清的辯論和討論之一。但我認為本 RFI 中的 DOE 正試圖澄清這一點。從 Plug 的角度來看，我只是將其視為添加劑。任何有助於發展氫經濟、使氫更具吸引力的事物，都對 Plug Power 有利，因為我們擁有滿足人們需求的所有能力。

That's helpful. It does sound like a good opportunity. And I wanted to also just talk about the green hydrogen generation network in Europe. You've given some updates in the past, the 3Q letter gave some context there. But could you just maybe expand a little bit on your latest thinking on the expansion and the size of the EU hydrogen network that you mentioned in the 4Q letter as well? Just any additional color would be greatly appreciated.

這很有幫助。聽起來確實是個好機會。我還想談談歐洲的綠色制氫網絡。您在過去提供了一些更新，3Q 信中提供了一些背景信息。但是，您能否就您在 4Q 信中提到的關於歐盟氫網絡的擴張和規模的最新想法進行一些擴展？任何額外的顏色將不勝感激。

I'm going to give that to Sanjay.

我要把它交給桑傑。

So again, look, I think given some of these unfortunate events here, right, I'm sure you've seen what has the LNG prices done in Europe, right? I mean it's touching the levels where all of a sudden, I think, hydrogen is getting into parity even before anything else, even from a BTU content standpoint, right? But look, our business plan is not contingent upon what the commodity prices does from a short-term perspective, right? So we've been thinking a lot about it. And our focus in Europe really has been the electricity price in Europe, as you very well know, right, in some location can be very, very high, whether it's renewable or just the standard electricity prices. So -- and that's why the partnership with ACCIONA is a very important one because in Spain, given the solar resources that you have, you can really get a very attractive price of that solar energy. That's why we're working with them. We have about 5 sites that we're evaluating, but we're going to hone it into 2. That is going to lead to about 2 of the 15 tons per day plant that we're looking to have in operation by the end of 2024. That's with the ACCIONA JV, right?

再一次，看，我認為考慮到這裡的一些不幸事件，對，我相信你已經看到了歐洲液化天然氣價格的變化，對吧？我的意思是它突然達到了這樣的水平，我認為，即使從 BTU 含量的角度來看，氫氣甚至比其他任何東西都更早，對吧？但是看，我們的商業計劃並不取決於商品價格在短期內的表現，對吧？所以我們一直在思考這個問題。我們在歐洲的重點確實是歐洲的電價，正如你所知道的，對，在某些地方可能非常非常高，無論是可再生能源還是標準電價。所以——這就是為什麼與 ACCIONA 的合作關係非常重要，因為在西班牙，鑑於您擁有的太陽能資源，您確實可以獲得非常有吸引力的太陽能價格。這就是我們與他們合作的原因。我們正在評估大約 5 個站點，但我們將把它磨練成 2 個。這將導致我們希望在年底前投入運營的每天 15 噸工廠中的大約 2 個2024. 那是 ACCIONA 合資公司，對吧？

And we're looking at locations where you have the right wind resources, right, where you can actually have a right LCOE from a wind power perspective. And how do you bring that hydrogen into the demand center, right? That's another area where we're spending a lot of time. And we're even looking at -- we almost think about, Stephen, from a triangle perspective, how do you bring that lowest possible green hydrogen in Europe, right? So as a part of our 500 tons by 2025, then go into 1,000 tons by 2028, Europe is absolutely a very important and a big part of that. We have said that with ACCIONA. We want to have about 100 tons per day in the medium term, and we're working with several other partners. And as we sit here right now, we can kind of soft circle if you would, visibility on what we might be building over the next several years to about 200 tons per day.

我們正在尋找您擁有合適風能資源的位置，從風電的角度來看，您實際上可以擁有合適的 LCOE。你如何將氫氣帶入需求中心，對吧？這是我們花費大量時間的另一個領域。我們甚至在考慮——我們幾乎想，斯蒂芬，從三角形的角度來看，你如何在歐洲帶來盡可能低的綠色氫，對嗎？因此，作為我們到 2025 年 500 噸的一部分，然後到 2028 年達到 1,000 噸，歐洲絕對是非常重要和重要的一部分。我們已經在 ACCIONA 上說過這一點。我們希望在中期內每天生產 100 噸左右，我們正在與其他幾個合作夥伴合作。當我們現在坐在這裡時，如果你願意，我們可以稍微轉一圈，了解我們在未來幾年內可能會建造的東西，達到每天約 200 噸。

I'm just going to -- I'm going to add one item, Sanjay, is that in Europe, because of what's happening in Ukraine, I really strongly believe -- I was sitting with a natural gas pipeline operator, one of the largest, yesterday, in New York. And both of us spent a little time. He explained to me how natural gas will get to Europe. But the real discussion was about this will accelerate the transition, that Europe is not going to want to be dependent on Russia for natural gas in the future. And all the focus is on how do you accelerate this climate change goals in sake with also improving national security, and hydrogen is one of the solutions.

我只是要-- 我要添加一個項目，Sanjay，是在歐洲，因為烏克蘭正在發生的事情，我非常相信-- 我和一位天然氣管道運營商坐在一起，其中一個最大的，昨天，在紐約。我們倆都花了一點時間。他向我解釋了天然氣將如何進入歐洲。但真正的討論是關於這將加速轉型，即歐洲未來不會希望在天然氣上依賴俄羅斯。所有的焦點都集中在如何加速實現氣候變化目標，同時提高國家安全，而氫是解決方案之一。

The next question is from Alex Kania of Wolfe Research.

下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Alex Kania。

I have a question for Paul, just to throw something his way. Just given the cash position, how does the accounting end up working for the investment portfolio as we think about kind of earnings over the course of the year?

我有一個問題要問保羅，只是想按他的方式扔東西。考慮到現金狀況，當我們考慮一年中的收益類型時，會計最終如何為投資組合工作？

You're talking about the cash investments we made in the portfolio...

你說的是我們在投資組合中進行的現金投資...

Yes, that's right. Just given how volatile things are, yes.

是的，這是對的。只是考慮到事情的波動性，是的。

Yes. Well, I mean, in the markets that we're in, as you probably know, in short-term instruments, you're not getting a lot of yield anyway. So we're just trying to squeeze what we can out of that. There's actually some very strange rules that given the particulars, we have so much cash, it's actually a problem for me. It limits the amount of cash I can invest. And so that's an interesting problem I've never had before. So -- but I'm not -- I don't think that's going to be -- unfortunately, not a huge contributor because of those limitations, but it's also not a huge impact because of the markets where there's just not a lot of yields to begin with. It's -- our focus is really preservation. It's just the big things that we're investing in where we're going to get the big yield between the hydrogen platform and the different acquisitions we made and growing those and things like that where our primary focus is on investment. So I hope that answers your question.

是的。好吧，我的意思是，在我們所處的市場中，你可能知道，在短期工具中，無論如何你都不會獲得很多收益。所以我們只是想盡我們所能。實際上有一些非常奇怪的規則，考慮到細節，我們有這麼多現金，這對我來說實際上是個問題。它限制了我可以投資的現金數量。所以這是一個我以前從未遇到過的有趣問題。所以 - 但我不是 - 我認為這不會 - 不幸的是，由於這些限制，它不是一個巨大的貢獻者，但它也不是一個巨大的影響，因為市場上沒有很多收益開始。這是 - 我們的重點是真正的保存。這只是我們正在投資的大事情，我們將在氫平台和我們所做的不同收購之間獲得高收益，並在我們主要關注投資的情況下發展這些以及類似的事情。所以我希望這能回答你的問題。

Yes. Great. And then the other one is just kind of going back to Europe. I'm just trying to think about -- there's certainly a lot more kind of focus on networks there from some of the network operators probably more seriously or more advanced stages than we're seeing kind of in the United States. So kind of how do you see -- as you're developing this hydrogen network, how could you kind of integrate with that? And maybe kind of differentiate yourself maybe versus some of the other peers that are active on kind of pure hydrogen and electrolysis or whatever in the continent there?

是的。偉大的。然後另一個只是回到歐洲。我只是想考慮一下——與我們在美國看到的相比，一些網絡運營商可能更認真或更高級地關注那裡的網絡。那麼你怎麼看 - 當你正在開發這個氫網絡時，你怎麼能與之整合？也許與其他一些活躍於純氫和電解或其他大陸上的其他同行相比，你可能會有所不同？

Sure. Fair question, right. I think the way we're looking at it is, obviously, Europe so far has really been mostly a gaseous market, right? Now given I think what we just touched on with what we're trying to do with ACCIONA is we're actually going to be building 2 liquid plants out of the gate, right? Because we think liquid is going to have to be a part of the mix. But you brought up a really important and a good point. What we're doing here, right, Alex, is we're working with some of the renewable developers in the right location, where they either have secured the land, or they are working on securing the right PPA. And I think what ends up happening here in some of these locations, right, you might actually end up -- and again, Europe actually has a better network, as you pointed out, even from a hydrogen delivery perspective, from a pipeline standpoint, Europe has been mostly a gaseous market. So the way, I think -- this is such a big market, I'm sure there'll be many players that will be successful.

當然。公平的問題，對。我認為我們看待它的方式顯然是，到目前為止，歐洲實際上主要是一個氣體市場，對吧？現在考慮到我認為我們剛剛談到我們試圖用 ACCIONA 做的事情是我們實際上將在大門外建造 2 個液體植物，對嗎？因為我們認為液體必須成為混合物的一部分。但是你提出了一個非常重要和好的觀點。我們在這裡所做的，對，亞歷克斯，我們正在與一些可再生能源開發商在正確的位置合作，他們要么已經獲得了土地，要么正在努力獲得正確的 PPA。而且我認為最終在其中一些地方發生的事情，對，你實際上可能最終 - 正如你所指出的，歐洲實際上有一個更好的網絡，即使從氫氣輸送的角度來看，從管道的角度來看，歐洲主要是一個氣體市場。所以順便說一句，我認為——這是一個如此大的市場，我相信會有很多玩家會成功。

But the way we see it, we're going to work with the renewable developer in the right location where we can really secure the lowest possible cost of electricity. That's the first thing, right? Whether it's Denmark, whether it's Spain, whether it's even thinking about North Africa, if you would, bringing hydrogen via pipeline into the European market. Then the second piece that you will see here is for the sort of that 100-plus mile delivery, it is almost going to be like a last-mile liquefaction, if you would. And that's the capability we bring to the table, and we'll work with the right partners on that front, right? So that's basically how we see it. Look, there'll be many players that are going to be successful. But I think given what Andy just touched on, that this energy transition is going to have to be even happening faster, becoming even more critical given this recent environment. This market probably moves very fast. And that's why we're being very thoughtful and strategic about who are all the right developers that we can work with so that we're actually putting our flag post, if you would, in terms of really being able to secure this right source of renewable in the right location to serve that market.

但在我們看來，我們將在合適的地點與可再生能源開發商合作，在那裡我們可以真正確保盡可能低的電力成本。這是第一件事，對吧？無論是丹麥，還是西班牙，甚至是否考慮北非，如果你願意的話，通過管道將氫氣帶入歐洲市場。然後，您將在這裡看到的第二部分是那種 100 多英里的交付，如果您願意的話，它幾乎就像最後一英里的液化。這就是我們帶來的能力，我們將在這方面與合適的合作夥伴合作，對嗎？所以這基本上就是我們的看法。看，會有很多球員會成功。但我認為，鑑於安迪剛剛談到的，這種能源轉型必須更快地發生，鑑於最近的環境，這種轉變變得更加關鍵。這個市場可能發展得非常快。這就是為什麼我們對誰是我們可以合作的所有合適的開發人員進行了非常周到和戰略性的考慮，因此我們實際上是在樹立我們的旗幟，如果你願意的話，就真正能夠確保這個正確的來源可再生能源在合適的位置服務於該市場。

The next question is from Amit Dayal of H.C. Wainwright.

下一個問題來自 H.C. 的 Amit Dayal。溫賴特。

Just a quick question on the outlook, Andy, for revenues for 2022. What portion of that do you think comes from the international markets for you?

安迪，關於 2022 年收入的展望，只是一個簡短的問題。您認為其中哪一部分來自國際市場？

That's a good question. I think the international market will be about 25%, Paul?

這是個好問題。我認為國際市場將是 25% 左右，保羅？

Yes, yes.

是的是的。

About 25%.

大約 25%。

Okay. And then as we get into '23, with all of these partnerships you have in those markets, does that portion grow towards like 30%, 40% or maybe even higher in the next few years?

好的。然後，隨著我們進入 23 世紀，通過您在這些市場中擁有的所有這些合作夥伴關係，在接下來的幾年中，這部分是否會增長到 30%、40% 甚至更高？

I think the answer to that question is yes, Amit. I think part of it will have to do with -- I think I would say yes. I would think by 2025, you're probably talking 40%.

我認為這個問題的答案是肯定的，阿米特。我認為它的一部分將與 - 我想我會說是的。我認為到 2025 年，你可能會說 40%。

Okay. Okay. And just with respect to the new units, the ones with this enhanced technology that you have been deploying, is that now the standard units that are going to all the customers?

好的。好的。就新設備而言，您一直在部署的具有這種增強技術的設備，現在是面向所有客戶的標准設備嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Got it. All right. And are you getting a higher sales price for these offerings as well? I mean, obviously, on the service side, you're saving costs on those. Is the price point also supporting the margins on this?

好的。知道了。好的。您是否也為這些產品獲得了更高的銷售價格？我的意思是，顯然，在服務方面，您可以節省這些成本。價格點是否也支持這方面的利潤？

So I would just say this that you really hate discussing pricing strategies on calls like this, Amit. Let me just say that we try to get the best price for the value we create with our customers.

所以我只想說你真的討厭在這樣的電話中討論定價策略，阿米特。我只想說，我們努力為我們與客戶創造的價值獲得最優惠的價格。

The next question is from Joseph Spak of RBC Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 RBC Capital Markets 的 Joseph Spak。

I was wondering if you could spend just maybe a minute on the SK E&S JV that was completed this past quarter. Just a little bit more maybe on the ambitions? What are some of the near-term goalposts we should look for in that venture? What exactly is each partner contributing? And maybe also on the capitalization, like that SK investment you got a while back, is that earmarked for this JV?

我想知道您是否可以在上個季度完成的 SK E&S JV 上花費一分鐘。只是在野心上多一點？我們應該在該項目中尋找哪些近期目標？每個合作夥伴具體貢獻了什麼？也許還有資本化，比如你不久前獲得的 SK 投資，是專門用於這家合資企業的嗎？

No. That is Plug Power's money to spend as Plug Power pleases, Joseph. Let me take a step back. I was actually on a Board call for the JV this morning. And the JV's top priority is the development of the South Korean market, with a real focus on stationary products. And by this year, we will be shipping stationary products to the JV, the initial offering. That will grow and continue to grow through 2024. The JV also has won some mobility opportunities for buses, which could be about 750 ProGens per year. But Korea is the first and main focus. There is a good deal of activity going on in South Vietnam, which is another -- or Vietnam, I'm showing my age, in Vietnam. And that is another area. One of the areas that I'm trying to make sure the JV is really focused on because it's huge opportunity is putting power on the grid in South Korea, which could help us meet our 2025 goals. And most of the focus -- most of the people working on that product are in that JV at the moment are focused on that product.

不，那是 Plug Power 的錢，可以隨心所欲地使用，Joseph。讓我退後一步。今天早上，我實際上是在為合資企業召開董事會電話會議。合資公司的首要任務是開發韓國市場，真正專注於文具產品。到今年，我們將向合資公司運送固定產品，這是最初的產品。到 2024 年，這將繼續增長。合資企業還贏得了一些公共汽車的移動機會，每年可能約為 750 輛 ProGen。但韓國是第一個也是主要焦點。南越有很多活動正在進行，這是另一個 - 或者越南，我正在展示我的年齡，在越南。那是另一個領域。我正在努力確保合資企業真正專注的領域之一，因為它的巨大機會是為韓國的電網供電，這可以幫助我們實現 2025 年的目標。並且大部分關注點 - 目前從事該產品的大多數人都在該合資企業中，專注於該產品。

From a capital point of view, Paul, I think I would probably put the number over the next 3 years in the $100 million type range?

從資本的角度來看，Paul，我想我可能會將未來 3 年的數字放在 1 億美元的範圍內？

Yes, that is about right.

是的，這差不多。

Okay. And maybe just next question, just really more housekeeping. The 1 gigawatt electrodes or backlog target by the end of the year. Can you just remind us where that stands right now? Sorry, if I missed that. And also is that -- that's captive and external? Or is that maybe -- just the breakdown there and how you're thinking about that?

好的。也許只是下一個問題，只是更多的家務。到年底的 1 吉瓦電極或積壓目標。你能提醒我們現在的位置嗎？對不起，如果我錯過了。還有就是——那是俘虜和外部的嗎？或者這可能 - 只是那裡的故障以及你是如何考慮的？

So all that's external. What we provide to Sanjay is not part of our numbers. I mean Sanjay's business is just a transfer within the business itself. As I mentioned earlier in the call, Joseph, we have today a $13 billion funnel for that business, which is, rough numbers, is probably 17, 18 gigawatts of opportunity. So our ambitions -- as I mentioned earlier in the call, we're really focused on folks who we feel can execute, that they understand, folks who have the money and folks who have real applications. One of the really interesting parts of this market is that there's this huge opportunity to substitute. The plant we're doing in Egypt, the offtake for that green hydrogen is really just the -- the offtake for that green hydrogen, that offtake is actually the feeder ammonia plant that exists today that uses gray hydrogen. And I keep on finding more and more of these opportunities, which I really like, where it's an easy substitution that assures that the revenue and the business model actually works. So that's where a good deal of that funnel is and a good deal of the growth opportunity exists. I hope that helped, Joseph.

所以這一切都是外在的。我們提供給 Sanjay 的東西不屬於我們的數字。我的意思是桑傑的業務只是業務本身的轉移。正如我之前在電話會議中提到的，約瑟夫，我們今天有一個 130 億美元的漏斗用於該業務，粗略的數字，可能是 17 到 18 吉瓦的機會。所以我們的抱負——正如我在電話會議前面提到的那樣，我們真的專注於我們認為可以執行、他們理解的人、有錢的人和有實際應用的人。這個市場真正有趣的部分之一是存在巨大的替代機會。我們在埃及建造的工廠，綠色氫的排放量實際上只是綠色氫的排放量，該排放量實際上是今天存在的使用灰氫的饋線氨工廠。我一直在尋找越來越多的這些機會，我真的很喜歡，這是一種簡單的替代方法，可以確保收入和商業模式確實有效。因此，這就是大量漏斗所在，並且存在大量增長機會。我希望這有幫助，約瑟夫。

The next question is from Tom Curran of Seaport Research Partners.

下一個問題來自 Seaport Research Partners 的 Tom Curran。

As I zero in on the gross margin ambitions a bit, this might be another rare one for Paul. So for services, I know that you set a target of reducing costs on a per unit basis by 30% by the end of this year. Could you confirm or update that goal of 30%? And then now that we are 2 months into the year with presumably better visibility, give us some idea of what the quarterly progression toward that year-end level should look like?

由於我對毛利率的野心有點零，這對保羅來說可能是另一個罕見的。所以對於服務，我知道你們設定的目標是到今年年底將單位成本降低 30%。您能否確認或更新 30% 的目標？然後現在我們已經進入了 2 個月，可能有更好的能見度，讓我們了解向年終水平的季度進展應該是什麼樣的？

Yes. Well, there's multiple initiatives that we're working on. One, the mix of the units that we put in last year just performed better out of the gate. And so you're going to see that element in the mix. Second is that we've actually -- we're retrofitting a number of those initiatives back into the fleet. That's happening in different stages, at different customers, at different time lines. So you're going to see a progression in that regard as well. The percentage that you quoted is still our target. It's what we're working towards. You're going to see probably more of the benefits starting to really feed in, in the second half just because of timing in terms of how it works.

是的。嗯，我們正在開展多項舉措。一，我們去年投入的單元組合剛剛表現得更好。所以你會在混合中看到那個元素。其次，我們實際上 - 我們正在將其中一些舉措重新裝回機隊。這發生在不同的階段、不同的客戶、不同的時間線。所以你也會看到這方面的進展。您引用的百分比仍然是我們的目標。這是我們正在努力的方向。在下半年，您可能會看到更多的好處開始真正發揮作用，這僅僅是因為它工作的時間安排。

Basically, at the end of the day, these initiatives extend the life of these parts, extend -- and cause less touches. And so as we make these improvements, you start to feel that in what would have been the previous cycle that happened in that second half and onward, right? So that's why you're going to start to see the big benefits in the latter part of this year. I think it's going to be a step function change as we continue to make these improvements, continue to shift new units with the new technology. And then, of course, you've got, as we move forward, a lot of customers at refresh sites and units, and so that helps and provides benefits as well. So you will definitely see more progression in the second half towards those goals and then more of a step function change next year.

基本上，歸根結底，這些舉措延長了這些部件的壽命，延長 - 並減少了接觸。因此，當我們進行這些改進時，您開始感覺到，在下半場及以後發生的上一個週期中，對吧？所以這就是為什麼你將在今年下半年開始看到巨大的好處。我認為這將是一個階梯式的功能變化，因為我們將繼續進行這些改進，繼續使用新技術轉移新單元。然後，當然，隨著我們的前進，您在更新站點和單元中獲得了很多客戶，因此這也有助於並提供了好處。所以你肯定會在下半年看到朝著這些目標取得更多進展，然後明年會有更多的階梯函數變化。

That was a helpful summary. And then, Andy, what does last month's announcement about your strategic collaboration with Atlas Copco and Fives tell us about your strategy for H2 liquefaction plants and equipment? Do you remain open to and expect to stay competitive in bidding on projects where the customer wants to use a rival of Atlas Copco and Fives for the liquefier components? Just trying to parse this out. So you chose to bring Joule in-house but have opted for collaboration when it comes to what those 2 do? And what do you expect your strategy to be for distribution and storage where, for example, a company like Williams, a midstream company, expects to play a role.

這是一個有用的總結。然後，安迪，上個月關於您與阿特拉斯·科普柯和法孚的戰略合作的公告告訴我們您的 H2 液化工廠和設備戰略是什麼？在客戶希望使用阿特拉斯·科普柯和法孚的競爭對手作為液化器組件的項目競標中，您是否保持開放並期望保持競爭力？只是試圖解析出來。因此，您選擇將 Joule 帶入內部，但在這 2 人的工作上選擇了合作？您希望您的分銷和存儲策略是什麼，例如，像 Williams 這樣的中游公司希望發揮作用。

Just trying to parse where you'll be expecting to actually own it or have a piece of it in the vertical integration strategy and where you'll be partnering. And if so, the extent to which that partnering will be exclusive.

只是試圖解析你期望在哪裡實際擁有它或在垂直整合戰略中擁有它的一部分，以及你將在哪里合作。如果是這樣，這種合作將在多大程度上是排他性的。

So Tom, I am going to let Sanjay answer that question because he worked on that strategic deal with his team.

所以湯姆，我會讓桑傑回答這個問題，因為他與他的團隊進行了戰略交易。

Yes. So Tom, again, I think, as you know, right, one of the -- look, I mean, Atlas, as you know, obviously, from the turboexpander standpoint, obviously, is a very big player in that market, right? The reason to do that is sort of they have the visibility on what our needs are, right? And we have a visibility from a lead time perspective, right, with Fives being the fabrication house that has been around for such a long time. So what this consortium really brings to the table, right, is now we obviously have the design, the right capabilities within Joule in terms of making the liquefier with hopefully the best possible energy efficiency. Now we have a partner in the turbos, right, compressors. We have a partner in the fabrication, right? So when you put that consortium together, one, for our internal uses, it's a cost savings opportunity for us. It's controlling the channel. It's basically also controlling and making sure that there is no supply chain challenges that is beyond our control, that we can manage it ourselves, right? So that's what comes to the table.

是的。所以湯姆，我想，正如你所知，對，其中一個——看，我的意思是，阿特拉斯，正如你所知，顯然，從渦輪膨脹機的角度來看，顯然，它是該市場的一個非常大的參與者，對吧？這樣做的原因是他們可以了解我們的需求，對吧？從交貨時間的角度來看，我們有一個可見性，對，Fives 是已經存在了很長時間的製造公司。所以這個聯盟真正帶來的是，現在我們顯然擁有設計，在焦耳內具有正確的能力，可以製造具有最佳能源效率的液化器。現在我們在渦輪增壓器，對，壓縮機方面有了一個合作夥伴。我們有一個製造合作夥伴，對吧？因此，當您將該財團放在一起，供我們內部使用時，這對我們來說是一個節省成本的機會。它控制著通道。它基本上也是控制並確保沒有我們無法控制的供應鏈挑戰，我們可以自己管理，對嗎？這就是擺在桌面上的東西。

And second thing is similar to our electrolyzer business, right? Look, this is a massive market. If we have parties and partners that are looking to buy liquefier or electrolyzer from us, this consortium obviously will be able to supply to the third party as well. Because as Andy said, our goal is to basically grow the pie here. Hydrogen is a massive market. Green hydrogen is going to be a massive industry. We really want to make sure that we're providing to our customers. If they want capital equipment from us, we're prepared to do that. If they're looking for a hydrogen molecule from us, we're also able to supply to them as well. So that's really what that consortium is.

第二件事類似於我們的電解槽業務，對吧？看，這是一個巨大的市場。如果我們有各方和合作夥伴希望從我們這裡購買液化器或電解器，這個財團顯然也可以向第三方供應。因為正如安迪所說，我們的目標基本上是在這裡做大餅。氫氣是一個巨大的市場。綠色氫將成為一個巨大的產業。我們真的想確保我們提供給我們的客戶。如果他們想要我們的資本設備，我們準備這樣做。如果他們正在從我們這裡尋找氫分子，我們也可以提供給他們。所以這就是那個財團。

The next question is from Ameet Thakkar of BMO Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自 BMO Capital Markets 的 Ameet Thakkar。

Real quick from me. Real quick from me. Just it looked like there was a pretty big sequential increase in R&D and SG&A, kind of like 60%, 70% versus the third quarter. And just kind of thinking about how we should think about that for kind of the upcoming year or kind of next quarter. Is there some lumpiness associated with that at the end of the year? Or how do we think about that going forward?

我真的很快。我真的很快。只是看起來研發和 SG&A 的連續增長相當大，與第三季度相比增長了 60% 和 70%。只是想想我們應該如何考慮來年或下個季度的情況。年底時是否有一些與此相關的腫塊？或者我們如何看待未來的發展？

Yes. Some of that's R&D associated with building out the first big stationary plant. So I do think that there's probably $6 million, $7 million, I would call, call it, (inaudible) where it's kind of just R&D material to build out the engineering model for the first products. But I think that portion of it, Paul, mostly go away.

是的。其中一些是與建造第一個大型固定工廠相關的研發。所以我確實認為可能有 600 萬美元，700 萬美元，我會稱之為，稱之為，（聽不清）它只是為第一批產品建立工程模型的研發材料。但我認為那部分，保羅，大部分都消失了。

Yes. And there's also -- we also, as you know, we announced 3 acquisitions. And so there was some legal costs -- kind of onetime legal cost. A lot of that work would have been done prior to year-end, other specialty firms that help us with diligence and accounting and things like that, that's all in there. So definitely some lumpiness. But I think rough numbers, kind of that $90 million bucket per quarter is probably a good proxy.

是的。還有——如你所知，我們還宣布了 3 項收購。所以有一些法律費用——一種一次性的法律費用。很多工作將在年底之前完成，其他專業公司幫助我們進行盡職調查和會計之類的事情，就在那裡。所以肯定有些腫塊。但我認為粗略的數字，每季度 9000 萬美元的桶可能是一個很好的代理。

Great. That's super helpful. And then just going back to the hydrogen supply business and kind of thinking back from the start of the year, there was obviously some of the force majeure issues that you guys have highlighted kind of throughout '21. But kind of going forward, like you guys mentioned kind of prices as well as kind of impacting the margins on that business as we kind of exit '21. Like there are no additional force majeure that you kind of encountered in the second half of '21, and you guys have mentioned that a couple of times, I think, just kind of getting out of that force majeure cycle. Has that been like a problem you've incurred a lot? And what drives that besides kind of gas supply related to weather kind of disrupted.

偉大的。這非常有幫助。然後回到氫氣供應業務，從年初開始回想一下，顯然你們在整個 21 年都強調了一些不可抗力問題。但是有點前進，就像你們提到的那種價格以及在我們退出 21 年時影響該業務的利潤率。就像你們在 21 年下半年遇到的其他不可抗力一樣，你們已經提到過幾次，我認為，只是擺脫了不可抗力循環。這就像你經常遇到的問題嗎？除了與天氣有關的天然氣供應之外，是什麼驅動了這種情況。

Go ahead, Sanjay.

去吧，桑傑。

Yes. So Ameet, on that, right, so a couple of factors in play. So when it strictly relates to our hydrogen molecule costs from our suppliers, right, natural gas has a pretty big impact to that. So the price goes up as a function of increasing the natural gas prices. So you saw some of that in Q4, right? That's what happens. Now in terms of the force majeure, right, and that's why -- we think about this as not only supporting Plug Power customer, right? We think the network that we're building is so critical for also the entire hydrogen industry because what has often happened is you've had either plant maintenance where the plant went down for longer than expected sometimes, right? You had a supply curtailment of the feed gas that was supposed to go into some of these hydrogen plants, right? So we have had to deal with situations last year where in situation, there were like a couple of plants that were being down at the same time, right?

是的。所以 Ameet，在這方面，對，有幾個因素在起作用。因此，當它與我們供應商的氫分子成本嚴格相關時，天然氣對此有相當大的影響。因此，價格隨著天然氣價格的上漲而上漲。所以你在第四季度看到了一些，對吧？這就是發生的事情。現在就不可抗力而言，對，這就是為什麼 - 我們認為這不僅是支持 Plug Power 客戶，對吧？我們認為我們正在建設的網絡對整個氫工業也非常重要，因為經常發生的情況是，您要么進行了工廠維護，要么工廠停工的時間有時比預期的要長，對吧？你們削減了本應進入其中一些氫氣工廠的原料氣，對嗎？所以我們不得不處理去年的情況，在這種情況下，有幾家工廠同時倒閉，對吧？

So we've managed through that, which is why logistics costs went up to make sure that our customers' mission-critical applications are maintained. We're supporting that. But going forward, it's difficult to say that there's not going to be a force majeure. But as we go into second half of this year and really think about 2023, and as our network is built, I think it's going to be very beneficial for the entire hydrogen economy because we'll be able to step up and really deal with this force majeure and even support some of our suppliers, frankly, as we have some of this plant come online as well as our customers.

所以我們已經做到了這一點，這就是為什麼物流成本上升以確保我們客戶的關鍵任務應用程序得到維護的原因。我們對此表示支持。但展望未來，很難說不會發生不可抗力。但隨著我們進入今年下半年並真正考慮到 2023 年，隨著我們網絡的建成，我認為這將對整個氫經濟非常有利，因為我們將能夠加強並真正應對這個問題坦率地說，不可抗力甚至支持我們的一些供應商，因為我們有一些這種工廠和我們的客戶一樣上線。

I think that is our last call for the day. And I'd like to kind of end it where my personal remarks ended. Plug is creating the new world today with our real products. And the energy transition is going to happen faster than people thought even just a week or 2 ago. And I would tell you, there's no one in a better position because of all the years of experience, because of our hydrogen ecosystem we've built to take advantage of this change. That's who Plug is, and really looking forward to talking to you more throughout the year. So thank you, everyone.

我認為這是我們今天的最後一次通話。我想在我的個人言論結束的地方結束它。如今，Plug 正在用我們的真實產品創造新世界。甚至一周或兩週前，能源轉型的速度將比人們想像的要快。我會告訴你，由於多年的經驗，沒有人處於更好的位置，因為我們建立的氫生態系統是為了利用這一變化。這就是 Plug 的身份，並且非常期待全年與您進行更多交流。所以謝謝大家。

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，感謝您的參與。