普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2021 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Plug Power Inc.

您好，歡迎來到 Plug Power Inc.

Third Quarter 2021 Earnings Call.

2021 年第三季度財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

（操作員說明）作為提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

It's Tuesday, November 9, 2021.

現在是 2021 年 11 月 9 日，星期二。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Teal Hoyos, Director of Marketing and Communications.

我現在想將會議轉交給營銷和傳播總監 Teal Hoyos。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Welcome to the 2021 Third Quarter Update Call.

歡迎來到 2021 年第三季度更新電話會議。

This call will include forward-looking statements.

本次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operation or financial position or state of forward-looking information.

這些前瞻性陳述包含對我們未來經營結果或財務狀況或前瞻性信息狀態的預測。

We intend that these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provision for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

我們打算將這些前瞻性陳述納入 1933 年《證券法》第 27A 條和 1934 年《證券交易法》第 21E 條中包含的前瞻性陳述的安全港條款。

We believe that it is important to communicate future expectations to investors.

我們認為，向投資者傳達未來預期非常重要。

However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements, and such statements should not be read as a guarantee of future performance or results.

然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被視為對未來業績或結果的保證。

As such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, it's caused actual results or performance to differ materially from those disclosed as a result of various factors, including but not limited to risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factor and our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2020, as well as other reports we file from time to time with the SEC.

由於此類陳述存在風險和不確定性，因此由於各種因素（包括但不限於第 1A 項風險因素和我們在表格 10 上的年度報告中討論的風險和不確定性），導致實際結果或業績與披露的結果或業績存在重大差異-K，截至 2020 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度，以及我們不時向 SEC 提交的其他報告。

These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day in which the statements are made, and we do not intend or undertake to -- intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information.

這些前瞻性陳述僅在發表陳述之日發表，我們不打算或承諾——打算在本次電話會議後或根據新信息更新任何前瞻性陳述。

At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug Power CEO, Andy Marsh.

在這一點上，我想將電話轉給 Plug Power 首席執行官安迪·馬什。

Well, thank you, Teal, and welcome, everyone, to Plug's Third Quarter Conference Call.

好吧，謝謝你，蒂爾，歡迎大家參加 Plug 的第三季度電話會議。

My opening will be brief since details are provided in our investor letter.

由於我們的投資者信中提供了詳細信息，因此我的開場白將很簡短。

I was at COP 26 last week in Glasgow, and hydrogen was front and center at the event.

上週我參加了在格拉斯哥舉行的 COP 26，氫氣是這次活動的前沿和中心。

It really reiterates Plug's belief that our first-mover advantage will be a definite benefit as we advance our business.

它確實重申了 Plug 的信念，即我們的先發優勢將成為我們推進業務的明確優勢。

We plan to remain the leader in building out of the global hydrogen economy.

我們計劃在構建全球氫經濟方面保持領先地位。

We're aggressive on all fronts and have the vision of building out the hydrogen ecosystem today, let me emphasize today.

我們在各個方面都積極進取，並有建立今天氫生態系統的願景，讓我今天強調一下。

And this is one of the reasons we were building out the first green hydrogen network in the United States.

這也是我們在美國建立第一個綠色氫網絡的原因之一。

We view green hydrogen as the great accelerator of all fuel cell applications, many of which will be provided by Plug Power.

我們將綠色氫視為所有燃料電池應用的重要加速器，其中許多將由 Plug Power 提供。

We don't believe we can do this alone.

我們不相信我們可以獨自做到這一點。

We've done this via successful acquisitions such as American Fuel Cell to provide us with leading-edge MEA technology.

我們通過成功收購 American Fuel Cell 等為我們提供領先的 MEA 技術來做到這一點。

We are doing this with joint ventures with leaders such as SK, Renault, Fortescue and ACCIONA.

我們正在與 SK、雷諾、Fortescue 和 ACCIONA 等領先企業建立合資企業。

Also through partnerships with companies such as Airbus and Life.

還通過與空中客車公司和人壽等公司的合作夥伴關係。

Acquisitions and partnerships can provide us both technology and access to market.

收購和合作可以為我們提供技術和市場准入。

You'll continue to see Plug travel down this path as we aggressively stake our claim in the potential market of $10 trillion.

隨著我們積極地在 10 萬億美元的潛在市場中佔有一席之地，您將繼續看到 Plug 沿著這條道路前進。

The acquisition of Frames provides Plug multiple benefits.

收購 Frames 為 Plug 提供了多項好處。

Let me just name a few.

讓我僅舉幾例。

Frames is used to executing on large projects and has worked with Plug for a number of years.

Frames 習慣於執行大型項目，並與 Plug 合作多年。

They provide us with integration capability to address large-scale gigawatt electrolyzer plants.

它們為我們提供了解決大型千兆瓦電解廠的集成能力。

This matches with their global supply chain reach, provides us a unique capability when we match this with Plug's leading-edge stack and electrolyzer technology.

這與他們的全球供應鏈範圍相匹配，當我們將其與 Plug 的領先堆棧和電解器技術相匹配時，為我們提供了獨特的能力。

Now let me just divert a second.

現在讓我轉移一下。

I mean just yesterday, I was in London working on a 750-megawatt deal.

我的意思是，就在昨天，我在倫敦從事一項 750 兆瓦的交易。

Being able to do large-scale plants is really, really critical.

能夠進行大型工廠是非常非常關鍵的。

On the technology front, Frame brings in expertise in water management, which is critical in the electrolyzer industry.

在技術方面，Frame 引入了水管理方面的專業知識，這對電解槽行業至關重要。

We are now in a better position to address waste and ocean water to provide ourselves and our customers a better, more cost-effective, environmentally friendly solution.

我們現在處於更好的位置來解決廢物和海水問題，從而為我們自己和我們的客戶提供更好、更具成本效益和環保的解決方案。

We are thinking a great deal about offshore electrolyzers and between Frames' water management expertise and offshore platforms expertise, this is real value.

我們對海上電解槽進行了大量思考，在 Frames 的水管理專業知識和海上平台專業知識之間進行了大量思考，這是真正的價值。

Additionally, their ability to manage gases such as drying hydrogen is a critical capability that Frames brings to the table.

此外，它們管理氣體（例如乾燥氫氣）的能力是 Frames 帶來的一項關鍵能力。

Also, it makes us very European.

此外，它使我們非常歐洲。

Of the pure-play hydrogen fuel cell companies, we will have one of the largest employee footprints in the industry with operations in France, the Netherlands and Germany.

在純氫燃料電池公司中，我們將擁有業內最大的員工足蹟之一，在法國、荷蘭和德國開展業務。

They also provide us 150 employees in India to provide back office engineering support for both our electrolyzers and stationary products.

他們還在印度為我們提供了 150 名員工，為我們的電解槽和固定產品提供後台工程支持。

Finally, they have long-term relationships throughout the world with companies that have net-zero carbon goals.

最後，他們在世界各地與擁有淨零碳目標的公司建立了長期合作關係。

We believe this acquisition provides us the strongest technical and operational team in the electrolyzer industry.

我們相信此次收購為我們提供了電解槽行業最強大的技術和運營團隊。

Also finally, I'd like to comment on applied cryo technology announcement that may have been lost in all the activity around the Plug Power Symposium.

最後，我想評論一下在 Plug Power Symposium 周圍的所有活動中可能丟失的應用低溫技術公告。

Today, liquid hydrogen is the only practical means for storing and delivering hydrogen to most customers based on the high volumetric density versus gases hydrogen.

今天，液態氫是儲存和向大多數客戶提供氫氣的唯一實用方法，因為氫氣的體積密度比氣態氫氣高。

We believe the future storage and delivery of hydrogen will be a mixture of gases hydrogen delivered by pipeline, salt caverns and liquid hydrogen.

我們相信，未來氫氣的儲存和輸送將是通過管道輸送氫氣、鹽穴和液態氫氣的混合氣體。

We believe liquid hydrogen will be a necessity in storage for mobility and stationary application even when hydrogen is delivered to a deep out via pipeline.

我們相信，即使氫氣通過管道輸送到深處，液態氫仍將成為移動和固定應用儲存中的必需品。

We believe applied cryo tech provides us with the following: a liquid hydrogen delivery network and fleet; liquid hydrogen storage; and a real cool one, hydrogen mobility fueling, which is particularly important for ports.

我們相信應用低溫技術為我們提供了以下優勢：液氫輸送網絡和車隊；液態氫儲存；還有一個很酷的，氫流動燃料，這對港口特別重要。

And as you know, that hydrogen will be exclusively green.

如你所知，氫氣將完全是綠色的。

Again, Applied Cryo Tech was a company known by Plug.

同樣，Applied Cryo Tech 是一家以 Plug 聞名的公司。

When we analyze our need for hydrogen trailers for the coming 4 years and recognize the cash savings associated with this transaction paid for the acquisitions.

當我們分析未來 4 年對氫氣拖車的需求並認識到與此次收購相關的現金節省時。

They also bring us market and technologies.

他們也給我們帶來了市場和技術。

We are also aggressively pursuing increasing the sales for Applied Cryo Tech especially with some of our announced partners.

我們還積極尋求增加 Applied Cryo Tech 的銷售額，尤其是與我們宣布的一些合作夥伴。

These acquisitions allowed us to increase our guidance to $900 million to $925 million in 2022.

這些收購使我們能夠在 2022 年將我們的指導提高到 9 億美元至 9.25 億美元。

Finally, I'd like to discuss gross margins, especially hydrogen service.

最後，我想談談毛利率，尤其是氫服務。

We are the largest user of liquid hydrogen in the world and are building a green hydrogen network that is resilient and is not burdened by fluctuating commodity pricing.

我們是世界上最大的液態氫用戶，正在建立一個具有彈性且不受商品價格波動負擔的綠色氫網絡。

We have taken the burden in managing the hydrogen network, so our customers always have hydrogen.

我們承擔了管理氫氣網絡的責任，因此我們的客戶始終擁有氫氣。

Our competition is electricity, and for large customers, as electricity is always there and with long-term contracts, pricing is consistent.

我們的競爭是電力，對於大客戶來說，電力總是存在的，而且有長期合同，定價是一致的。

With our green hydrogen network across the U.S. we can be the same.

借助我們遍布美國的綠色氫網絡，我們可以做到這一點。

Our green hydrogen network will eliminate price variability and simplify logistics.

我們的綠色氫網絡將消除價格波動並簡化物流。

In the short term, we are taking the burden so that green hydrogen is viewed as a dependable source of energy.

在短期內，我們正在承擔責任，使綠色氫被視為一種可靠的能源。

This activity as our network comes online will become quite profitable for Plug Power.

隨著我們的網絡上線，這項活動將為 Plug Power 帶來豐厚的利潤。

The service business Plug has demonstrated over 50 sites that we have the right equation to have a cost-effective service offering.

服務業務 Plug 已經向 50 多個站點證明，我們有正確的方法來提供具有成本效益的服務。

We'll now roll these changes out across our network.

我們現在將在我們的網絡中推出這些更改。

In our shareholder letter, we said we expect a 30% savings by the end of 2022 and 45% by the end of 2023 in our service business.

在我們的股東信中，我們表示我們預計到 2022 年底，我們的服務業務將節省 30% 的費用，到 2023 年底將節省 45% 的費用。

We also see even more advances with our next-generation product.

我們還看到我們的下一代產品取得了更大的進步。

So now let me turn the phone over to questions.

所以現在讓我把電話轉過來提問。

I have 3 members of our team with me today, Paul Middleton, our CFO; Sanjay Shrestha, who is the GM of our Hydrogen Energy business; as well as Jose Crespo, GM of our Material Handling business.

今天我有 3 名團隊成員，我們的首席財務官 Paul Middleton； Sanjay Shrestha，我們氫能業務的總經理；以及我們物料搬運業務的總經理 Jose Crespo。

We're now ready to take your questions.

我們現在準備回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Colin Rusch with Oppenheimer.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Colin Rusch 和 Oppenheimer。

Andy, just was talking about -- okay.

安迪，剛才在談論——好吧。

Just so I understand, you're talking about developing electrolyzer assets offshore and piping hydrogen back on land.

就我所知，你說的是在海上開發電解池資產並將氫氣輸送回陸地。

Did I hear that right?

我沒聽錯嗎？

Or did I misunderstand something?

還是我誤會了什麼？

That is -- yes.

那就是——是的。

Let me be clear, Colin.

讓我說清楚，科林。

They bring that capability to the table.

他們將這種能力帶到了桌面上。

I don't see that as critical for the next 3 to 4 years.

我不認為這對未來 3 到 4 年至關重要。

We'll have demonstration projects in the coming years at a small scale doing that.

我們將在未來幾年進行小規模的示範項目。

I see a couple advantages to that.

我看到了一些好處。

So the advantages of moving hydrogen versus electricity for the same price in a pipe, you can deliver 15x more energy.

因此，在管道中以相同的價格輸送氫氣與電力相比具有優勢，您可以提供 15 倍以上的能量。

It just makes a lot of sense if you can do it in the ocean.

如果你能在海洋中做到這一點，那就很有意義了。

And if you look at the build-out, for example, in Long Island, it's a large opportunity.

如果你看一下例如在長島的擴建，這是一個很大的機會。

Frames, though, and let me be clear, Colin, in the next 3 to 4 years, we have plans that we're working on customers with which are more than 1 gigawatt in size.

框架，不過，讓我明確一點，科林，在接下來的 3 到 4 年內，我們計劃與超過 1 吉瓦的客戶合作。

They're used to executing on large projects.

他們習慣於執行大型項目。

They've been working with us and have been developing over -- have been working with us on the system with over 30%, 35% of our system integration.

他們一直在與我們合作並一直在開發——一直在與我們合作開發超過 30%、35% 的系統集成的系統。

I thought it was time to make them part of the Plug team.

我認為是時候讓他們成為 Plug 團隊的一員了。

They additionally -- when you look at some of these large bids and proposals, just to give you a feel, 1 bid in proposal was over 750 pages long.

他們還 - 當您查看其中一些大型投標和提案時，只是為了給您一種感覺，提案中的 1 個投標超過 750 頁長。

It's really detailed, and the capability in India really adds that to the equation so that we can respond to customers rapidly.

它非常詳細，印度的能力確實將其添加到等式中，以便我們能夠快速響應客戶。

The level of activity in that collectorlyzers can't be understated.

不能低估收集器中的活動水平。

You see a lot of activity going on with green ammonia, with methodization, with green hydrogen, of course.

當然，你會看到很多關於綠色氨、方法化和綠色氫的活動。

And quite honestly, I've been beginning to think about we have our grand opening of the gigafactory on Friday have actually begun thinking about I need to expand really quick because the opportunity set is so large.

老實說，我已經開始考慮我們在周五舉行的超級工廠盛大開幕實際上已經開始考慮我需要非常快速地擴張，因為機會集是如此之大。

That's super helpful, Andy.

這非常有幫助，安迪。

And then I guess maybe the second question is for Sanjay.

然後我想也許第二個問題是給 Sanjay 的。

It's really about preparation of the supply chain to support the build-out of electrolyzer capacity with all the consumables, not just the CapEx here, but just all of the different elements that go into the full process and the preparation of those folks to kind of march lockstep with you guys in this scale-up.

這實際上是關於準備供應鏈以支持所有消耗品的電解槽產能建設，不僅僅是這裡的資本支出，而是進入整個過程的所有不同元素，以及這些人的準備工作在這個擴大規模中與你們步調一致。

Yes.

是的。

So look, I think this is something we spend a lot of time thinking about, right?

所以看，我認為這是我們花了很多時間思考的事情，對吧？

And not just that.

不僅如此。

This, if anything, is one of the key competitive advantage and the differentiation that we have because we're the company that actually is controlling how, where and how do you do the electrolyzer stack, how do you take the cost down, how do you think about the balance of plant, right?

這（如果有的話）是關鍵的競爭優勢和我們所擁有的差異化之一，因為我們是一家實際控制如何、在何處以及如何製作電解槽堆棧的公司，您如何降低成本，如何做到你想想植物的平衡，對吧？

And that's one aspect of it, which I think really makes us very unique, puts us in a very, very strong position to be able to really execute on all this green hydrogen generation plant that we're building.

這就是它的一個方面，我認為這確實使我們非常獨特，使我們處於非常非常強大的位置，能夠真正執行我們正在建造的所有綠色氫氣發電廠。

And second thing, right, as Andy talked about, all the bids and activity that's happening in the electrolyzer space also puts us in a position where we are our own customer becomes a huge reference for the third-party customers as well, right?

第二件事，對，正如安迪所說，電解槽領域發生的所有投標和活動也使我們處於我們自己的客戶成為第三方客戶的巨大參考的位置，對吧？

And obviously, look, from a supply chain perspective, we have a gigafactory, we've been adding a lot of resources, a lot of talent to make sure that we have all the components that we need.

顯然，從供應鏈的角度來看，我們有一個超級工廠，我們一直在增加大量資源和人才，以確保我們擁有所需的所有組件。

And we have a detailed time line, Colin, right, when we think about exactly when the electrolyzes need to show up, for example, in our plant in Georgia, for example, for our plant in New York.

我們有一個詳細的時間線，科林，對，當我們考慮電解液需要出現的確切時間時，例如，在我們位於佐治亞州的工廠中，例如，在我們位於紐約的工廠中。

And we have actually mapped that out.

我們實際上已經將其繪製出來了。

We know exactly when the manufacturing's going to happen in our gigafactory, when do we get the electrolyzers showing up at the site, when do we get the liquefier and the coal box showing up at the site.

我們確切地知道我們的超級工廠什麼時候開始製造，什麼時候讓電解槽出現在現場，什麼時候讓液化器和煤箱出現在現場。

So we -- obviously, there's a lot of planning and the detail work that has gone on that gives us the level of confidence when we talk about, for example, Georgia, the plant is being up and running in the summer of next year, which, by the way, is almost like 12 months and less than even 12 months since we broke the ground, right?

所以我們——很明顯，當我們談論喬治亞州時，有很多計劃和細節工作讓我們充滿信心，明年夏天該工廠將啟動並運行，順便說一句，自我們破土動工以來，這幾乎是 12 個月，甚至不到 12 個月，對吧？

So we feel pretty good about what we're doing, how we're managing the supply chain.

所以我們對我們正在做的事情以及我們如何管理供應鏈感覺非常好。

Being able to control it ourselves really puts us in a position to be able to execute on this strategy.

能夠自己控制它確實使我們能夠執行該策略。

Anything you want to add?

你有什麼要補充的嗎？

I think you hit it, Sanjay.

我想你成功了，桑傑。

Our next question comes from the line of Craig Irwin with ROTH Capital Partners.

我們的下一個問題來自 Craig Irwin 與 ROTH Capital Partners 的對話。

Andy, I should say congratulations.

安迪，我應該說祝賀。

I've known you and Sanjay and George McNamee for -- your Chairman for 20 years and -- for more than 20 years.

我認識你、桑杰和喬治麥克納米——你們的主席已經 20 年了，而且——20 多年了。

And I would say this last year I think there's been more progress and more changes of Plug than the prior 2 decades, and that is tremendous.

我想說的是，去年我認為 Plug 比前 2 年有了更多的進步和更多的變化，這是巨大的。

But I have a confession, right?

但我有一個坦白，對吧？

My head is spinning, right?

我的頭在旋轉，對吧？

I have followed this company forever.

我一直關注這家公司。

I know a lot of your partners, a lot of the key people in the supply chain.

我認識你的很多合作夥伴，很多供應鏈中的關鍵人物。

And when I talk to investors, there's a lot of different directions they're looking and they're -- people are sometimes just a little bit confused.

當我與投資者交談時，他們正在尋找很多不同的方向，而且他們 - 人們有時只是有點困惑。

So with that context, when I step back, I see green hydrogen as the most important strategic initiative at Plug Power right now because that's what allows the carbon footprint that everybody wants to achieve by adopting fuel cell technology.

因此，在這種情況下，當我退後一步時，我認為綠色氫能是 Plug Power 目前最重要的戰略舉措，因為這是每個人都希望通過採用燃料電池技術實現的碳足跡。

And with that fundamental baseline, I look at the shareholder letter, and the fact that you're looking at margins improving by 5 percentage points for hydrogen in the first quarter to as much as 20% exiting the fourth quarter, there's clearly something seismic going on, right, something really fundamental.

有了這個基本基線，我查看了股東的信函，事實上你看到第一季度氫氣的利潤率提高了 5 個百分點，到第四季度退出時高達 20%，顯然有一些地震正在發生對，對，一些非常基本的東西。

Can you maybe bridge the gross margin improvement for us as far as what's going on with this hydrogen strategy, what's really working and how the benefit rolls on over the next 4 quarters?

就這種氫戰略的進展情況、真正有效的方法以及未來四個季度的收益如何產生而言，您能否為我們彌補毛利率的改善？

Craig, I am going to let Sanjay answer that, but let me just add that I agree with you.

克雷格，我會讓桑傑回答這個問題，但讓我補充一下，我同意你的看法。

I kind of view green hydrogen as kind of the iPhone that enables all these apps for fuel cells as well as for chemical processes to allow people to turn green.

我把綠色氫看作是一種 iPhone，它可以為燃料電池和化學過程提供所有這些應用程序，讓人們變綠。

But Sanjay, why don't you talk about the gross margin growth?

但是桑傑，你為什麼不談談毛利率的增長呢？

Sure.

當然。

Happy to do that, Andy.

很高興這樣做，安迪。

And Craig, good to hear from you.

還有克雷格，很高興收到你的來信。

So look, I think you picked on something really interesting here, right?

所以看，我認為你在這裡挑選了一些非常有趣的東西，對吧？

So -- and as Andy mentioned during his prepared remarks, what has been our big focus in 2021?

那麼——正如安迪在準備好的講話中提到的那樣，我們在 2021 年的重點是什麼？

Even though we're paying more for the hydrogen, we're trying to make sure that none of our customers ever run into any challenge from the availability of hydrogen to run their mission-critical application.

儘管我們為氫支付了更多費用，但我們正在努力確保我們的客戶都不會因為氫的可用性而遇到任何挑戰，以運行他們的關鍵任務應用程序。

And that is by far the most important thing for us and our primary focus.

這對我們來說是迄今為止最重要的事情，也是我們的主要關注點。

But as you go into 2021, 2022, and when you go from Q4 to Q1, right?

但是當你進入 2021 年、2022 年以及從第四季度到第一季度時，對吧？

First thing, we will actually have our Tennessee plant that is now instead of being 6.4 tons, it's going to be at 10 tons, right?

首先，我們實際上將擁有我們現在的田納西工廠，而不是 6.4 噸，而是 10 噸，對嗎？

So that expansion has happened.

所以這種擴張發生了。

That will contribute to reduction in the cost, number one, from a blended cost perspective.

從混合成本的角度來看，這將有助於降低成本，第一。

Second thing that will happen as you go into the second quarter of 2022, we also have some additional supply from other industrial gas customer that we're able to secure that is also going to reduce the blended cost of hydrogen as well when you go into the second quarter.

進入 2022 年第二季度時將發生的第二件事，我們還從其他工業氣體客戶那裡獲得了一些額外的供應，我們能夠確保這也將在您進入時降低氫氣的混合成本第二季度。

But more importantly, what really happens, Craig, as you talked about that seismic shift is in the second half of 2022, as some of our green hydrogen plants come online in the summer of that year, towards the end of that year, that's really what dramatically drives the cost of that blended hydrogen when you go into the second half of the year.

但更重要的是，克雷格，正如你所說，真正發生的事情發生在 2022 年下半年，因為我們的一些綠色氫工廠在那年夏天上線，到那年年底，那真的是當你進入下半年時，是什麼極大地推動了混合氫氣的成本。

And that's the reason why, not this 2022, we talked about what happens in 2023, right?

這就是為什麼我們談論 2023 年發生的事情，而不是 2022 年，對吧？

This fuel business goes from being a negative margin business to starting to approach breakeven.

這種燃料業務從負利潤業務轉變為開始接近盈虧平衡。

And as you start to think about 2024, now you're talking about 30% kind of a gross margin numbers, right?

當你開始考慮 2024 年時，現在你說的是 30% 的毛利率數字，對吧？

That is all driven by what we expect the cost of our green hydrogen production is going to be, which we've shared with you all, and you've actually also seen it in the shareholder letter.

這一切都是由我們預期的綠色氫氣生產成本推動的，我們已經與大家分享了這一點，您實際上也在股東信中看到了這一點。

That number is below $4 a kilogram.

這個數字低於每公斤 4 美元。

And you all know -- you all can back into what the ASP is to our end customers, and that's why we feel quite good about, look, 2021 has been tough.

你們都知道——你們都可以回到 ASP 對我們的最終客戶來說是什麼，這就是為什麼我們感覺很好，看，2021 年很艱難。

Margins will improve in 2022, especially as you look at the second half of the year.

利潤率將在 2022 年有所改善，尤其是當您查看下半年時。

It's going to continue to improve as you go into '23 and dramatically even improves as you go into 2024 as we build this first-of-a-kind force majeure resilient green hydrogen generation network in North America.

隨著您進入 23 年，它將繼續改善，甚至隨著您進入 2024 年，隨著我們在北美建立這個首個具有不可抗力彈性的綠色氫氣發電網絡，它甚至會顯著改善。

And Craig, I think one of the things that's really important to note here, right, is when we build this green hydrogen generation network, it of course helps our margin, right?

克雷格，我認為這裡真正需要注意的一件事是，當我們建立這個綠色的氫生成網絡時，它當然有助於我們的利潤，對吧？

It, of course, helps from a sustainability perspective, it is a must, as you highlighted, in the energy transition, right?

當然，從可持續性的角度來看，它是有幫助的，正如您所強調的，在能源轉型中，這是必須的，對吧？

But what this also does is this helps the entire hydrogen economy.

但這也有助於整個氫經濟。

This actually creates a situation where our customer gets more comfortable, but even other hydrogen players in this industry will also get that resilient supply that allows them to even mitigate and manage through some of the force majeure that they have seen in the past, right?

這實際上創造了一種情況，我們的客戶會感到更加舒適，但即使是該行業的其他氫氣參與者也將獲得彈性供應，這使他們甚至可以緩解和管理他們過去看到的一些不可抗力，對吧？

So that's how we see it unfolding.

這就是我們看到它展開的方式。

So I couldn't agree more with you with your assessment here.

所以我完全同意你在這裡的評估。

My next question is obviously -- the big one is guidance, right?

我的下一個問題顯然是——最重要的是指導，對嗎？

You are clearly seeing acceleration across the board, abundant initiatives that are being incredibly well received by your customer base, where you're adding new verticals almost every month.

您清楚地看到全面加速，大量計劃受到您的客戶群的熱烈歡迎，您幾乎每個月都在添加新的垂直領域。

Aviation is going to be really exciting to watch.

航空將是非常令人興奮的觀看。

What can you say is surprising you the most or is -- has made them much faster progress than you would have expected maybe at this time last year?

您能說什麼最讓您感到驚訝，或者是 - 使他們取得了比您去年這個時候預期的要快得多的進展？

Craig, I think without a doubt, it's the electrolyzer business.

克雷格，我認為毫無疑問，這是電解槽業務。

I am -- and I say this in a good way.

我是——而且我說得很好。

I am consumed by meetings with Chairmans and Chief Executive Officers.

我忙於與董事長和首席執行官的會面。

I'll give you example.

我給你舉個例子。

I was in Scotland on Friday and a chairman of a company in the ammonia space asked me to come and stay in London for the weekend to discuss huge opportunities.

週五我在蘇格蘭，氨空間公司的一位董事長讓我周末來倫敦，討論巨大的機會。

And that happened -- I had that meeting, I ended up leaving London last night around 9:00 or 6:00.

事情發生了——我參加了那個會議，最後我昨晚在 9:00 或 6:00 左右離開倫敦。

That's really commonplace.

這真是司空見慣。

I had another worldwide large utility leadership grab me on the phone today this morning to want to talk me for an hour.

今天早上，我有另一位全球大型公用事業領導者打電話給我，想和我聊一個小時。

It is constant where the inflow for electrolyzers never stops.

電解槽的流入永遠不會停止是恆定的。

And it's why we made the Frames acquisition.

這就是我們收購 Frames 的原因。

It's also -- I think one of the real advantages we'll have is we're going to be the person with capacity that can actually build electrolyzer plants.

這也是 - 我認為我們將擁有的真正優勢之一是我們將成為有能力實際建造電解廠的人。

And I think folks are recognizing it.

我認為人們正在認識到這一點。

The company I was with Monday highlighted the fact that they've been looking at this space for 2 years, and they've concluded we had the best technologies, the best products and the best manufacturing capabilities when it came to PEM technologies.

週一我所在的公司強調了一個事實，他們已經關注這個領域 2 年了，他們得出的結論是，在 PEM 技術方面，我們擁有最好的技術、最好的產品和最好的製造能力。

And really, we're the only ones who could execute and help them meet their needs and help them meet their net zero goals.

實際上，我們是唯一能夠執行並幫助他們滿足需求並幫助他們實現淨零目標的人。

I didn't expect that a year ago.

一年前我沒想到。

I think somewhere in 2023, electrolyzers will be bigger than material handling.

我認為在 2023 年的某個時候，電解槽將比材料處理更大。

And I think sometime in 2024, green hydrogen will be bigger than material handling.

而且我認為在 2024 年的某個時候，綠色氫將比材料處理更大。

All right.

好的。

Our next question comes from the line of P.J. Juvekar with Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 P.J. Juvekar。

Clearly, your margins and business has been hurt within hydrogen -- with purchased hydrogen costs going up.

顯然，您的利潤和業務在氫氣方面受到了損害——購買的氫氣成本上升。

It started going up in second quarter.

它在第二季度開始上漲。

And what was the impact in third quarter?

第三季度的影響是什麼？

And then when you look at your gross margin goal of 30% in fuels by 2024, what are the main risks in achieving that number in your mind?

然後，當您查看到 2024 年 30% 的燃料毛利率目標時，您認為實現該數字的主要風險是什麼？

Is it energy prices, electrolyzer costs, transportation costs?

是能源價格、電解槽成本、運輸成本嗎？

Can you just walk us through that?

你能帶我們過去嗎？

I'll let Sanjay talk about that, P.J.

我會讓桑傑談談，P.J.

Yes, P.J., how are you?

是的，P.J.，你好嗎？

Good to hear from you.

很高興聽到你的消息。

Again, look, I think, P.J., you obviously know the industrial gas market quite well, right?

再一次，看，我想，P.J.，你顯然很了解工業氣體市場，對吧？

So -- and you know what kind of pricing you're seeing in this market, right?

所以 - 你知道你在這個市場上看到什麼樣的定價，對吧？

So if anything, if we were to just extrapolate and say the green hydrogen pricing should be very similar to what the gray hydrogen pricing in the market is right now based on what you see we're paying for it today, if anything, I think that 30% margin ends up being conservative, right?

所以如果有的話，如果我們只是推斷並說綠色氫定價應該與目前市場上的灰色氫定價非常相似，基於你看到我們今天支付的價格，如果有的話，我認為30% 的利潤最終是保守的，對吧？

But our goal here is to really make sure that we're providing our customer with green hydrogen at prices that are arguably better than what we have to pay for gray hydrogen in the market today.

但我們的目標是真正確保我們為客戶提供綠色氫，其價格可以說比我們今天在市場上為灰色氫支付的價格要好。

Our goal, as you know, is to grow the size of this pie, not trying to go after existing pie and take a small piece of the pie, right?

如您所知，我們的目標是擴大這個餡餅的大小，而不是試圖追求現有的餡餅並分取一小塊，對嗎？

We want to make sure green hydrogen is economical, a [big hotel] so that there's more and more application that becomes available.

我們希望確保綠色氫是經濟的，一個[大酒店]，以便有越來越多的應用程序可用。

Now more specifically to your question on what are the risks, look, there's always things that can happen that is not anticipated.

現在更具體地回答您關於風險是什麼的問題，看，總有可能發生的事情是無法預料的。

But as you know, from a renewable pricing perspective, we buy renewable prices on a long-term basis, right?

但如您所知，從可再生能源定價的角度來看，我們長期購買可再生能源價格，對嗎？

That's something we can control.

這是我們可以控制的。

We know what that is.

我們知道那是什麼。

There are some areas where we've got to manage the demand charge and things like that, but we know how to do that.

在某些領域，我們必須管理需求費用之類的事情，但我們知道如何做到這一點。

We know how to contain the cost of renewable electricity, and that's an area where we've spent a tremendous amount of time.

我們知道如何控制可再生電力的成本，這是我們花費大量時間的領域。

Second, electrolyzer, look, this is something we control, right?

第二，電解槽，看，這是我們控制的，對吧？

That, again, is a huge differentiation and competitive advantage we as Plug Power have.

這又是我們作為 Plug Power 擁有的巨大差異化和競爭優勢。

And another thing, as you know, from a liquefaction perspective.

如您所知，從液化的角度來看，還有另一件事。

I just touched on how we've already expanded our facility in Tennessee to 10 tons a day.

我剛剛談到了我們如何將田納西州的設施擴大到每天 10 噸。

We know how to run liquefiers.

我們知道如何運行液化器。

Now one another thing that we're doing that I think is going to be tremendously helpful, if anything, going to help both the logistics cost as well as the delivery network for us and for the entire industry is once this North American network is built out, if anything, you can actually optimize how do you transport hydrogen to various end customers, right?

現在，我認為我們正在做的另一件事將非常有幫助，如果有的話，一旦這個北美網絡建成，它將幫助我們和整個行業的物流成本和交付網絡出來，如果有的話，你實際上可以優化如何將氫氣運輸給各種最終客戶，對吧？

There are always things that can happen that are unanticipated.

總有一些意想不到的事情會發生。

But look, as we sit here right now, given that renewable cost is the biggest chunk of the variable cost in terms of producing green hydrogen, we control the electrolyzer.

但是，當我們現在坐在這裡時，鑑於可再生能源成本是生產綠色氫的可變成本的最大部分，我們控制電解槽。

So we're sitting here feeling pretty good about heads down, execute and get these plants built.

所以我們坐在這裡感覺很好，低頭，執行和建造這些工廠。

Great.

偉大的。

And my second question is on the gigafactory.

我的第二個問題是關於超級工廠的。

As that ramps up, you have the order book in front of you with electrolyzers needed for your own hydrogen plants.

隨著這種情況的增加，您面前有一份訂單簿，其中包含您自己的氫氣工廠所需的電解槽。

Your fuels till stacking capability needed for materials handling business.

您的燃料直到材料處理業務所需的堆垛能力。

So as the gigafactory ramps up, that operating leverage should translate into significant incremental margins.

因此，隨著超級工廠的增加，這種運營槓桿應該轉化為顯著的增量利潤。

I was just wondering if you can just -- has that been taken into account in your guidance?

我只是想知道你是否可以——在你的指導中考慮到了這一點嗎？

And when does the real inflection point come?

而真正的拐點何時到來？

I'll let Paul take that, P.J.

我會讓保羅接受，P.J.

Yes, and good afternoon, P.J. Good to hear from you again.

是的，下午好，P.J. 很高興再次收到您的來信。

So it's going to have a significant effect next year.

所以明年會有很大的影響。

I mean it's turning on as we speak.

我的意思是我們說話的時候它正在打開。

We're going to be ramping production out of that facility.

我們將增加該設施的生產。

And I would just broaden your comment by saying when you look at the next 12 months, it really is amazing what's going to happen in that time period.

我想擴大你的評論範圍，當你看看接下來的 12 個月時，那段時間會發生什麼真的很神奇。

So we're turning on the green hydrogen platform, which is going to have a substantial impact.

因此，我們正在開啟綠色氫平台，這將產生重大影響。

We're scaling the gigafactory and turning it on and going to have a full year of production out of that.

我們正在擴大超級工廠的規模並啟動它，並以此進行一整年的生產。

We're scaling the new products.

我們正在擴展新產品。

I mean Andy talked about the growth of electrolyzer.

我的意思是安迪談到了電解槽的發展。

With our internal use as well as external sales, that's going to grow tenfold next year.

隨著我們的內部使用和外部銷售，明年將增長十倍。

We've got other new products in EV and stationery scaling next year.

明年我們在電動汽車和文具縮放方面還有其他新產品。

We've got the joint venture scaling next year.

我們明年將擴大合資企業規模。

We've got 2 acquisitions we've just made that are meaningful, both in terms of sales and margin and synergies on our existing spend of products and CapEx.

我們剛剛進行了兩次有意義的收購，無論是在銷售額和利潤率方面，還是在我們現有產品支出和資本支出的協同效應方面。

We've got all the service improvements that we've been talking about.

我們已經完成了我們一直在談論的所有服務改進。

It's really -- and we're scaling the material handling business, and it's going to be growing over 30% to 40% next year.

真的 - 我們正在擴大材料處理業務，明年它將增長超過 30% 到 40%。

So the next 12 months are going to be another -- Craig mentioned a few minutes ago how big last year it was.

所以接下來的 12 個月將是另一個 - 克雷格幾分鐘前提到去年它有多大。

I think the next 12 months are going to be equally exciting and big in terms of the growth of the company.

我認為接下來的 12 個月對於公司的發展來說將同樣令人興奮和巨大。

We're guiding over 80% growth over this year.

我們指導今年的增長超過 80%。

And then you tack on all of these margin initiatives, they're going to have meaningful impact.

然後你執行所有這些利潤計劃，它們將產生有意義的影響。

Those are all baked into our guidance and why we're extremely excited about the projections and how we're going to get to that 30% run rate in the midterm strategic planning horizon.

這些都包含在我們的指導中，以及為什麼我們對預測感到非常興奮，以及我們將如何在中期戰略規劃範圍內達到 30% 的運行率。

Our next question comes from the line of Eric Stine with Craig Hallum.

我們的下一個問題來自 Eric Stine 和 Craig Hallum。

So just as we think about the 2022 guidance, I mean obviously, you characterize your business as accelerating.

因此，正如我們考慮 2022 年指導方針一樣，我的意思很明顯，您將您的業務描述為加速發展。

Just curious if you're able to break down maybe the impact of the Frames acquisition, how much of it is just ongoing acceleration in your business.

只是好奇您是否能夠分解收購 Frames 的影響，其中有多少只是您業務的持續加速。

And then as we think about Frames, how do you kind of prioritize that internal initiatives versus going after what is arguably a very sizable market opportunity?

然後當我們考慮 Frames 時，您如何優先考慮內部計劃而不是追求可以說是非常可觀的市場機會？

Sure.

當然。

So if you look at it, the internal business, organic growth is 508 25 next year, Craig.

所以如果你看一下，內部業務，明年的有機增長是 508 25，克雷格。

We're looking at frames and Applied Cryo Tech to move it up into the 9 25 range.

我們正在研究框架和 Applied Cryo Tech 以將其提升到 9 25 範圍。

That's kind of how I think about it.

我就是這麼想的。

What was the second part of the question?

問題的第二部分是什麼？

I'm sorry, Craig, I was just jotting -- what was that -- what we say the second part of your question, Craig?

對不起，克雷格，我只是草草記下——那是什麼——我們說的是你問題的第二部分，克雷格？

Yes.

是的。

So it was simply just prioritizing -- obviously you're acquiring this because of what it means for your internal business, but you've also got a big pipeline.

所以它只是優先考慮 - 顯然你收購它是因為它對你的內部業務意味著什麼，但你也有一個很大的管道。

I mean can you prioritize those 2?

我的意思是你能優先考慮這兩個嗎？

Well, it's actually why one of the biggest challenges, as you know, for companies that are growing is employees.

嗯，這就是為什麼正如你所知，對於成長中的公司來說，最大的挑戰之一就是員工。

And having the right staff and the right number of people, by year-end, we'll have 2,500 people.

並且擁有合適的員工和合適的人數，到年底，我們將擁有 2,500 人。

Pre COVID, I was under 700.

在 COVID 之前，我不到 700 歲。

So I've had this massive increase.

所以我有了這個巨大的增長。

And look, we've been hiring skilled individuals.

看，我們一直在招聘有技能的人。

We've been acquiring companies to help us really ramp and reach the needs.

我們一直在收購公司，以幫助我們真正提升並滿足需求。

When we look at prioritization Sanjay has self -- his whole organization -- I was reviewing over the weekend with the team the layout of the plant in New York; that was developed by his team exclusively.

當我們查看 Sanjay 自己的優先級時——他的整個組織——我在周末與團隊一起審查了紐約工廠的佈局；這是由他的團隊專門開發的。

He has the skill sets integrated into his business unit, and this was a key decision we made as an organization that we're going to make these business units very, very self-sufficient.

他將技能集整合到他的業務部門中，這是我們作為一個組織做出的一個關鍵決定，我們將讓這些業務部門非常、非常自給自足。

And Sanjay has the team and really Sanjay, I don't think, needed additional resources to execute on our present plans.

Sanjay 擁有團隊，我認為 Sanjay 真的不需要額外的資源來執行我們目前的計劃。

All these teams and electrolyzers, Frames will primarily support that activity.

所有這些團隊和電解槽，Frames 將主要支持該活動。

Obviously, we will help when we can with Sanjay, but that's really how we really have these business units, be it Jose's material handling business or Keith's new markets business, we try to keep them as self-sufficient as possible.

顯然，我們會盡我們所能幫助 Sanjay，但這就是我們真正擁有這些業務部門的方式，無論是 Jose 的物料搬運業務還是 Keith 的新市場業務，我們都盡量讓它們自給自足。

Obviously, areas like -- there are certain areas of platform development for technology, which is centralized, finance and legal, government affairs but that's really how we go about managing the business.

顯然，諸如技術平台開發的某些領域是集中的，金融和法律，政府事務，但這確實是我們管理業務的方式。

These GMs we've put in place, quite honestly, all of them are very, very strong.

老實說，我們安排的這些 GM 都非常非常強大。

And can -- our goal is that they will be the drivers to make sure these businesses are successful.

並且可以 - 我們的目標是他們將成為確保這些業務成功的驅動力。

Paul, would you like to add to that?

保羅，你想補充一下嗎？

I think that covers it, Andy.

我認為這涵蓋了它，安迪。

Yes.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

And maybe just last one for me.

也許對我來說只是最後一個。

Just on the stack upgrades.

只是在堆棧升級。

I know you mentioned that you're going to do those at the 10 largest users.

我知道您提到您將在 10 個最大的用戶中進行這些操作。

Just thoughts on what the cost of that may be and then thoughts of, is this something that we should view as kind of an ongoing initiative and to do that more broadly across your customer footprint.

只是考慮一下可能的成本，然後再考慮一下，我們是否應該將其視為一種持續的舉措，並在您的客戶足跡中更廣泛地做到這一點。

Sure.

當然。

I'm going to let Paul take that one.

我會讓保羅拿走那個。

I didn't get the context of the question.

我沒有得到問題的上下文。

We're talking about, Paul, the services we've talked -- the service costs associated with the upgrade of the products.

Paul，我們正在談論我們所談論的服務——與產品升級相關的服務成本。

Sorry, I missed that.

對不起，我錯過了。

Yes.

是的。

I think we've launched a new stack system.

我認為我們已經推出了一個新的堆棧系統。

We launched it last year.

我們去年推出了它。

We've seen how that's performed in the new units that we've launched since that time.

從那時起，我們已經看到了在我們推出的新單位中的表現。

We've put a number of new units into the field.

我們已經將一些新單位投入了該領域。

It's tracking incredibly well.

它的跟踪非常好。

It's actually tracking better than what we anticipated.

它實際上比我們預期的要好。

So as we continue to roll that back into our existing fleets, which we can fairly easily retrofit, it has a meaningful step function change in the stack life, which is one of -- it's obviously the biggest cost and impact on our service costs.

因此，隨著我們繼續將其回滾到我們可以相當輕鬆地對其進行改造的現有機隊中，它在堆棧壽命中具有有意義的階躍函數變化，這顯然是最大的成本和對我們的服務成本的影響之一。

So we're really -- and along the way this year, we've actually added a number of new resources and people to help focus go-forward reliability and improve that curve even faster, and that's paying dividends in what we're doing.

所以我們真的 - 在今年的過程中，我們實際上增加了許多新的資源和人員，以幫助關注前進的可靠性並更快地改善這條曲線，這正在為我們所做的事情帶來紅利.

So I think you're going to see those benefits roll out fairly quickly.

所以我認為你會看到這些好處很快就會出現。

And Paul, we have a lot of that cost already accrued for.

保羅，我們已經累積了很多成本。

Yes, exactly.

對，就是這樣。

We have it baked into our cost accruals of the increments of the overall portfolio of what it takes to get there.

我們已將其納入我們為實現目標所需的整體投資組合增量的成本應計中。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from the line of James West with Evercore ISI.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 James West 和 Evercore ISI 的系列。

Andy, you've been a busy man.

安迪，你一直是個大忙人。

I'm glad you have Sanjay and the rest of your team and Paul to help you out that you're at the top of the element.

我很高興你有 Sanjay 和你團隊的其他成員以及 Paul 來幫助你，讓你知道你已經處於領先地位。

James, I was up 25 hours straight.

詹姆斯，我連續 25 小時起床。

That's not meant for -- that's meant for young people, but I'm still energized.

那不是為——那是為年輕人準備的，但我仍然精力充沛。

I'm at 25 hours now.

我現在25小時。

Good.

好的。

Good.

好的。

Glad to hear it.

很高興聽見。

Maybe a question probably for Paul.

也許是保羅的問題。

As we think about the 2025 guidance and Andy, you touched on some of this, the moving parts where you think your electrolyzers get better, bigger than materials handling and green hydrogen eventually gets bigger as well.

當我們想到 2025 年的指導方針和安迪時，您談到了其中的一些內容，您認為電解槽變得更好的移動部件，比材料處理更大，綠色氫最終也變得更大。

What should the revenue mix of that $3 billion or so look like when we get to '25?

當我們到 25 年時，這 30 億美元左右的收入組合應該是什麼樣子？

How are you guys thinking about that?

你們是怎麼想的？

Yes.

是的。

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me.

我面前沒有確切的數字。

But in terms of the $3 billion, I think, as Andy said, electrolyzers are as big, if not slightly bigger, than material handling.

但就 30 億美元而言，我認為，正如安迪所說，電解槽與材料處理一樣大，甚至稍大一點。

And so those -- that coupled with the green hydrogen are the big 3 chunks of the revenue.

所以那些 - 加上綠色氫是收入的三大塊。

We're certainly seeing growth in the new markets on stationary and EV as well but the majority of revenue will come from those 3 pillars.

我們當然也看到了固定和電動汽車新市場的增長，但大部分收入將來自這三個支柱。

James, no one's asked me this on the phone so I'm going to put it in.

詹姆斯，沒有人在電話裡問過我這個問題，所以我要把它放進去。

Talking about new markets.

談論新市場。

One of our goals with Renault is that we do rollout of 10 -- essentially 10 customers with rollouts next week -- year to demonstrate technology.

我們與雷諾的目標之一是，我們將在下週推出 10 家——基本上是 10 家客戶——來展示技術。

They won't be big rollouts.

他們不會大規模推出。

We already have 7 customers lined up.

我們已經有7位顧客排隊了。

So I think you may have seen me driving the van at the Plug Power Symposium.

所以我想你可能已經看到我在 Plug Power Symposium 上駕駛麵包車了。

But we've -- that, to me, if -- Craig asked the question earlier, what surprised me, I think -- from last year.

但是我們 - 對我來說，如果 - 克雷格早些時候問過這個問題，我想是什麼讓我感到驚訝 - 從去年開始。

I think next year, at this time, I'll be talking about what we're doing with that Renault JV.

我想明年的這個時候，我將談論我們正在與雷諾合資公司做些什麼。

Right.

正確的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Good.

好的。

And then maybe just the last one, if I could sneak it in here.

然後也許只是最後一個，如果我能偷偷溜進來的話。

The green hydrogen sales that you're anticipating as these facilities come online, do you believe that you'll have presold most of your capacity?

隨著這些設施上線，您所期待的綠色氫氣銷售，您是否相信您已經預售了大部分產能？

I'm going to let Mr. Sanjay take that.

我要讓桑傑先生接受。

So James, good to hear from you.

詹姆斯，很高興收到你的來信。

So look, I mean today, we have not done your traditional way of how I think the industry is done, right?

所以看，我的意思是今天，我們還沒有按照我認為的行業完成的傳統方式完成，對吧？

You presold the plant, then you decide to build it, right?

你預售了工廠，然後你決定建造它，對吧？

So as we sit here right now, is the plan completely sold out?

所以我們現在坐在這裡，計劃完全售罄嗎？

No, it's not, right?

不，不是，對吧？

But frankly, that's somewhat intentional on our part right now because of all the new applications, all the new opportunity that we see unfolding here.

但坦率地說，由於所有新應用程序和我們在這裡看到的所有新機會，這對我們來說現在有點故意。

So we want to make sure that we're actually really reserving that capacity, right, which is also why we've gone down the path of essentially making sure that we're actually building these plants with our own capital so that way you're not having to go down the path of project financing and having to have that long-term offtake and things like that, right?

所以我們想確保我們實際上真的保留了這種能力，對，這也是為什麼我們走上了基本上確保我們實際上是用自己的資金建造這些工廠的道路，這樣你就可以了不必走項目融資的道路，也不必進行長期承購之類的事情，對嗎？

So again, but this is something we'll obviously shift focus on, make sure that the plants are loaded up as they come online, right?

再說一遍，但這顯然是我們將重點轉移的事情，確保植物在上線時已加載，對嗎？

But today, that's the approach we're taking to make sure that we have that reserve capacity to support all the new apps that we anticipate unfolding over the next several years.

但是今天，這就是我們正在採取的方法，以確保我們有足夠的儲備能力來支持我們預計在未來幾年內推出的所有新應用程序。

Our next question comes from the line of Greg Lewis with BTIG.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Greg Lewis。

I was hoping to dive in a little bit more into how we should think about the kind of the buckets of what's driving the margin improvement in terms of as we think about -- maybe it's pricing, maybe it's an improvement in the supply chain, maybe it's economies of scale.

我希望更深入地探討我們應該如何考慮推動利潤率提高的因素——也許是定價，也許是供應鏈的改進，也許這是規模經濟。

I mean you touched on the Frames and the ACT acquisition.

我的意思是你談到了框架和 ACT 收購。

Maybe some of that's internal savings.

也許其中一些是內部儲蓄。

Any kind of broader strokes we can think about and how we're achieving that 2022 and 2023 improvements?

我們可以考慮的任何更廣泛的舉措以及我們如何實現 2022 年和 2023 年的改進？

Yes.

是的。

I think we've been...

我想我們一直...

Why don't we let Sanjay do hydrogen?

為什麼我們不讓桑傑做氫氣？

And Paul, you can answer the rest.

保羅，剩下的你可以回答。

Yes.

是的。

And maybe you can run through hydrogen first.

也許你可以先通過氫氣。

Sure.

當然。

Happy to do that, Andy, right?

很高興這樣做，安迪，對吧？

So Greg, again, I think as I briefly mentioned to one of Craig's questions on hydrogen, right, so today, we're obviously buying hydrogen other than our plant in Tennessee, right?

所以，格雷格，我想正如我在克雷格關於氫的一個問題中簡要提到的那樣，對，所以今天，我們顯然是在購買除了我們在田納西州的工廠以外的氫，對吧？

So we're paying what we're paying.

所以我們付出了我們付出的代價。

That's the market price obviously impacted by various commodity price fluctuation and things along those lines, right, with the goal that make sure customers have hydrogen available all the time.

那是市場價格明顯受到各種商品價格波動和類似情況的影響，對，目標是確保客戶始終有氫氣可用。

So their mission-critical work and application is not impacted.

因此，他們的關鍵任務工作和應用程序不會受到影響。

And as we look into 2022, we see couple of things that are going to have a meaningful impact to this margin profile.

當我們展望 2022 年時，我們會看到幾件事將對這一利潤率狀況產生有意義的影響。

First, the Tennessee plant is no longer 6.4.

首先，田納西工廠不再是 6.4。

It will be 10 tons a day.

這將是每天 10 噸。

That will have an effect in the first half of the year.

這將在今年上半年產生影響。

We're obviously working with our strategic suppliers and adding few more supply options that is going to help us from a pricing perspective in the first half of the year.

我們顯然正在與我們的戰略供應商合作，並增加了一些供應選擇，這將從今年上半年的定價角度幫助我們。

But when you go to the second half of 2022, as some of these green hydrogen plants come online, that will obviously help quite a bit from the blended price perspective.

但是當你到 2022 年下半年時，隨著這些綠色氫工廠中的一些上線，從混合價格的角度來看，這顯然會有很大幫助。

And that's why we said you should expect to see that meaningful margin improvement from Q4 of this year to Q4 2022.

這就是為什麼我們說您應該期望看到從今年第四季度到 2022 年第四季度的利潤率顯著提高。

As you then go into 2023, where, by the end of 2022, we plan to have about 4 of these hydrogen plants basically being commissioned, right, so by the end of 2023, we're looking at having about 6 hydrogen plants up and running.

當你進入 2023 年時，到 2022 年底，我們計劃有大約 4 個這樣的氫氣工廠基本上投入使用，對，所以到 2023 年底，我們正在考慮建立大約 6 個氫氣工廠，並且跑步。

So when you look at '23 with all that contribution of new plants being built in the second half of 2022, you're looking at a breakeven margin performance.

因此，當您查看 23 年的所有貢獻時，新工廠將在 2022 年下半年建成，您會看到盈虧平衡的利潤率表現。

Then you shift into 2024 and beyond, where we're targeting and we're looking at -- which we've shared with you all multiple times, that we expect green hydrogen cost to be below $4 a kilogram.

然後你轉移到 2024 年及以後，我們的目標是我們正在研究——我們已經多次與你們分享了這一點，我們預計綠色氫的成本將低於每公斤 4 美元。

You guys can back into what our ASP is today.

你們可以回到我們今天的 ASP。

Obviously, that's a function of various different end markets, plus and minus, depending on which application it is but it gives us a very good confidence and the visibility based on where we see the costs going to talk about this 30% margin that we referred to, especially in 2024 for our hydrogen business.

顯然，這是各種不同終端市場的函數，加減，取決於它是哪個應用程序，但它給了我們非常好的信心和可見性，基於我們看到的成本將談論我們提到的這 30% 的利潤率到，特別是在 2024 年，我們的氫業務。

Paul?

保羅?

Yes.

是的。

And in the letter, we included a chart there that shows, to Sanjay's point, we're reducing it by 50%.

在信中，我們在其中包含了一張圖表，顯示桑傑認為，我們將其減少了 50%。

I mean that's fundamentally step change function.

我的意思是從根本上說是階躍變化功能。

And I would just add, to Sanjay's comment, that not only are we going to be able to produce it and sell to our customers at a cheaper cost, having -- as Sanjay alluded to earlier, getting -- gaining greater control over the logistics and the network is incredibly impactful on the efficiencies of the systems.

對於桑傑的評論，我只想補充一點，我們不僅能夠生產它並以更便宜的成本出售給我們的客戶，而且——正如桑傑早些時候提到的那樣——獲得對物流的更大控制權並且網絡對系統的效率產生了難以置信的影響。

We have become the world expert on distributing hydrogen and managing the networks for our customers.

我們已成為為客戶分配氫氣和管理網絡的世界專家。

And so one of the incredible things that we've learned is the importance of managing that logistics network and how that can be impactful to the efficiency of the system.

因此，我們學到的令人難以置信的事情之一是管理物流網絡的重要性以及它如何影響系統的效率。

So just to step back, to answer your question, it really stems from kind of 3 things, really.

所以退後一步，回答你的問題，它真的源於三件事，真的。

One is hydrogen, which Sanjay talked about.

一個是氫氣，桑傑談到了這一點。

Second is service, which we've talked about tonight in terms of a lot of things we're doing, and we expanded on the latter and improving that profile.

其次是服務，我們今晚就我們正在做的很多事情進行了討論，我們擴展了後者並改進了該配置文件。

And the third is scaling the equipment programs.

第三是擴展設備程序。

We've already shown routinely margins on our equipment profile at 30% to 35% as we scale further material handling as well as scale these new products like electrolyzers.

隨著我們進一步擴大材料處理規模以及擴大這些新產品（如電解槽）的規模，我們的設備配置文件已經顯示出 30% 到 35% 的常規利潤率。

I mean a tenfold increase next year in volume in that business is substantial.

我的意思是，明年該業務的數量增長十倍是可觀的。

And at a scale where as we start leveraging the gigafactory and other things that we're doing, it's going to allow us to achieve that margin profile on all the equipment programs that we have.

當我們開始利用超級工廠和我們正在做的其他事情時，它的規模將使我們能夠在我們擁有的所有設備項目上實現利潤率。

And as that holistic business grows, and we're talking about total growth next year of 85%, that's very meaningful in terms of the mix and the margin impact for equipment.

隨著整體業務的增長，我們談論的是明年 85% 的總增長，這對於設備的組合和利潤率影響而言非常有意義。

So it's really those 3 fundamental things.

所以這真的是這三個基本的東西。

And the acquisitions and the JVs and all those things help, on a global basis, grow the scale of equipment sales which allow us to drive that curve even faster.

收購和合資企業以及所有這些都有助於在全球範圍內擴大設備銷售規模，從而使我們能夠更快地推動這條曲線。

Okay.

好的。

That was super helpful.

那非常有幫助。

And then just -- I wanted to talk a little bit more about ACT and in thinking about -- I mean hey, this was a -- it's a good company, good technology, maybe a little bit undersize prior to the acquisition.

然後只是 - 我想多談談 ACT 並考慮 - 我的意思是嘿，這是一家 - 這是一家很好的公司，很好的技術，在被收購之前可能有點小規模。

But I guess now that it's inside the Plug umbrella, what are the -- what's the kind of the thought process?

但我想現在它在 Plug 保護傘內，是什麼——什麼樣的思考過程？

And Andy, you mentioned that it's the hard -- one of the harder issues is getting the right people in place to do this.

Andy，你提到這很困難——其中一個困難的問題是讓合適的人來做這件事。

But as we think about the opportunity for ACT in '22 and '23, as you look at how Plug is going to grow, I mean you guys are growing like a weed, is ACT in and of itself where it needs to be to meet your growth?

但是當我們考慮 22 年和 23 年 ACT 的機會時，當你看到 Plug 將如何成長時，我的意思是你們正在像雜草一樣成長，ACT 本身是否需要滿足你的成長？

Or should we be thinking about things like hydrogen trailers and everything else that ACT does, we're going to have to continue to rely on third-party providers as well?

或者我們是否應該考慮諸如氫氣拖車之類的事情以及 ACT 所做的其他事情，我們將不得不繼續依賴第三方供應商？

Greg, I expect to buy most of my trailers from ACT, Applied Cryo Technologies.

Greg，我希望從 ACT，Applied Cryo Technologies 購買我的大部分拖車。

I also expect that we will -- hydrogen trailers are much more complicated than stationary hydrogen tanks.

我也希望我們會——氫氣拖車比固定式氫氣罐複雜得多。

This year, I probably purchased 65 stationary hydrogen tanks.

今年，我大概購買了 65 個固定式氫氣罐。

I see this as a huge margin opportunity for Plug Power as well as a potential sales opportunity.

我認為這是 Plug Power 的巨大利潤機會以及潛在的銷售機會。

And with their technology, we're going to be able to move in to even further vertically integrate the business.

借助他們的技術，我們將能夠進一步垂直整合業務。

We look at what we have down there.

我們看看我們在那裡有什麼。

We're working 1 shift at the moment.

我們目前正在工作 1 班。

There's no reason we can't expand the number of shifts and expand the capability.

我們沒有理由不能擴大班次和擴大能力。

We have the land.

我們有土地。

I've already been staring at and looking to see where we could add additional capability on the site.

我一直在盯著看，想看看我們可以在網站的哪些地方添加額外的功能。

We've had a lot of outreach from some of our -- some of their customers already now that plug with our stronger balance sheet and ability to support the effort the business is much more interesting.

我們已經從我們的一些客戶那裡得到了很多外展——他們的一些客戶現在已經與我們更強大的資產負債表相結合，並且支持業務努力的能力更加有趣。

So we're -- we view that as very complementary to our vertical integration strategy.

所以我們 - 我們認為這與我們的垂直整合戰略非常互補。

but also see that we could double or triple the size of that business in the coming years.

但也看到我們可以在未來幾年將該業務的規模擴大一倍或三倍。

Our next question comes from the line of Bill Peterson with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的比爾彼得森。

Okay.

好的。

Well, you certainly sounded excited about the electrolyzer business talking about how it could be even larger than some current businesses.

好吧，您肯定對電解槽業務感到興奮，談論它如何比目前的一些業務更大。

I'm actually wondering about 2022.

我其實很想知道2022年。

At the recent symposium, you mentioned 100 megawatts in external sales and 300 megawatts for your internal use.

在最近的一次座談會上，你提到了100兆瓦的對外銷售和300兆瓦的內部使用。

And can there be more upside to this?

還有更多的好處嗎？

Or is this capacity limited?

還是這個容量有限？

I guess, are you fully booked through '22?

我猜，你到 22 年都訂滿了嗎？

And are you starting to get close into 2023 now?

你現在開始接近 2023 年了嗎？

I believe that we will blow out the 2022 electrolyzer numbers that I suggested at the symposium.

我相信我們會吹出我在研討會上建議的 2022 年電解槽數量。

We are not overbooked because we've built a big factory.

我們沒有超額預訂，因為我們建了一個大工廠。

And I -- knowing the deal flow and the activities we have going on, I could see us during our update call in January for 2022, I think there's a high probability we'll be increasing that number.

而且我 - 知道交易流程和我們正在進行的活動，我可以在 2022 年 1 月的更新電話會議上看到我們，我認為我們很有可能會增加這個數字。

That's terrific.

那太好了。

I want to talk about EV's logo.

我想談談EV的標誌。

We didn't spend too much time on this.

我們沒有花太多時間在這上面。

I guess with your -- with Renault, you have, obviously, some light commercial duty.

我猜你的 - 雷諾，顯然，你有一些輕微的商業責任。

This is an area that sees well suited for BEV.

這是一個非常適合 BEV 的領域。

So I guess I'm kind of curious to what you see as advantages for this fuel cell.

所以我想我對你認為這種燃料電池的優勢有點好奇。

And maybe switching to more heavy -- medium or heavy duty.

並且可能切換到更重的 - 中型或重型。

I believe a few quarters ago, you had talked about your being in negotiations for maybe some partnerships in heavy duty.

我相信幾個季度前，您曾談到您正在為一些重要的合作夥伴關係進行談判。

I'm wondering where this stands.

我想知道這是在哪裡。

I think you expected to maybe make some announcements, but is this still on track and would you take kind of an OEM approach here?

我認為您預計可能會發布一些公告，但這是否仍在進行中，您會在這裡採取一種 OEM 方式嗎？

Or just do direct sales?

還是只做直銷？

I'm curious on what your activities are more in the medium and heavy-duty side.

我很好奇您在中型和重型方面的活動更多。

So there are some real good negotiations going on, Bill.

所以有一些非常好的談判正在進行，比爾。

Let me say that I'm not eager to be an OEM parts supplier.

讓我說，我並不渴望成為 OEM 零件供應商。

Ultimately, that is a low-margin business.

歸根結底，這是一項低利潤的業務。

We're looking for, and we're engaged in discussions to have relationships that look very similar to the Renault model, where Plug jointly owns the vehicle.

我們正在尋找並參與討論，以建立與雷諾模型非常相似的關係，在雷諾模型中，Plug 共同擁有車輛。

I probably agree with you that obviously, heavy-duty and medium-duty vehicles are very interesting.

我可能同意您的看法，顯然，重型和中型車輛非常有趣。

But when you look at work that's been done by people like DHL and you look at the European goals for delivery vans, DHL always points out, if you go over 200 kilometers, which is often needed at fuel cell vehicles, they're essentially carrying batteries around instead of packaging.

但是，當您查看 DHL 等人所做的工作以及歐洲送貨車的目標時，DHL 總是指出，如果您行駛超過 200 公里（燃料電池汽車通常需要這樣做），它們本質上是在運載電池周圍而不是包裝。

I also think that fuel cell vehicles, and I think this is understated, gives operators a great deal more flexibility to keep vehicles on the road and to use vehicles for multiple purposes.

我還認為，燃料電池汽車（我認為這被低估了）為運營商提供了更大的靈活性，可以讓車輛保持在道路上行駛，並將車輛用於多種用途。

Now as I say kind of in this call that -- if this year electrolyzers surprised me, I think next year, I'll be talking a lot about vehicles.

現在正如我在這次電話會議中所說的那樣——如果今年電解槽讓我感到驚訝，我想明年我會談論很多關於車輛的事情。

Our next question comes from the line of Jed Dorsheimer with Canaccord Genuity.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jed Dorsheimer 的 Canaccord Genuity。

Yes, yes.

是的是的。

I'm muted.

我沉默了。

Sorry, guys.

對不起大家。

I guess first question, and I just have a couple here.

我想第一個問題，我這裡只有幾個。

But with the updated guidance, and maybe Paul gave this already or you gave this, Andy, what's the breakdown of revenues in terms of material handling in the near term here?

但是隨著更新的指導，也許保羅已經給出了這個，或者你給出了這個，安迪，在短期內材料處理方面的收入細分是什麼？

So of the 900 to 925, what would that be in terms of the different end markets?

那麼在 900 到 925 之間，就不同的終端市場而言，這將是什麼？

Do you want to take it, Paul?

你願意接受嗎，保羅？

Yes.

是的。

I don't think we've given that out specifically, but I think Andy just kind of said 825 is our core businesses and moving to the 925 million is with the acquisitions.

我不認為我們已經具體給出了這一點，但我認為安迪只是說 825 是我們的核心業務，而向 9.25 億邁進則是通過收購。

So I mean I think what we have given has been a number, I think, we quoted it with electrolyzer next year being around 150.

所以我的意思是我認為我們給出的是一個數字，我認為，我們引用了它，明年電解槽約為 150。

I think looking at material handling kind of growing in that 30%-plus range next year, if not higher.

我認為，如果不是更高的話，明年材料處理量會在 30% 以上的範圍內增長。

That's the guidance and insights that we've kind of given so far.

這就是我們迄今為止給出的指導和見解。

So it would be about material handling about 600, 150 from electrolyzers and I've already probably said could be more.

所以這將是關於來自電解槽的大約 600、150 的材料處理，我可能已經說過可能更多。

New markets, 75, acquisitions, 100.

新市場，75，收購，100。

I think that gets us there, Paul.

我認為這會讓我們到達那裡，保羅。

That's about right.

這差不多。

That's helpful, guys.

這很有幫助，伙計們。

And then just over on the -- I was wondering if you could help me a little bit just on the math because it sounds like there's a variable that I'm missing in terms of maybe a big step function on the cost down on the electrolyzer or the efficiency.

然後剛剛結束 - 我想知道你是否可以在數學上幫助我一點，因為聽起來我缺少一個變量，可能是電解槽成本下降的一個大步函數或效率。

But if I look at getting a kilo of green hydrogen, it's about 65-kilowatt hours of electricity to get that kilo in liquefied form.

但是，如果我看一下獲得一公斤綠色氫，將這公斤液化的電力大約需要 65 千瓦時。

So is that a fairly constant number to use?

那麼這是一個相當恆定的數字嗎？

Or do you see that dramatically changing?

或者你是否看到了巨大的變化？

I guess that's my first question.

我想這是我的第一個問題。

The second is then if we apply sort of a $0.05 cost of behind-the-meter electricity, I still struggle to get to under $450 million of cost.

第二個是，如果我們採用 0.05 美元的電錶後電力成本，我仍然很難將成本控制在 4.5 億美元以下。

So Jed, I'm not paying -- I'm paying below $0.031 pretty much everywhere okay, and almost approaching $0.025 of places.

所以傑德，我不付錢——我幾乎在所有地方都支付低於 0.031 美元的費用，而且幾乎接近 0.025 美元的地方。

I think your analysis is kind of right.

我覺得你的分析有點對。

You can kind of think about the electrolyzers as 52 kilowatt hours.

您可以將電解槽想像為 52 千瓦時。

You can probably think of 11 to 12-kilowatt hours to be liquefied today.

您可能會想到今天要液化 11 到 12 千瓦時。

I think you probably can start thinking about liquefier is getting down in the 8, 8.5 kilowatt hour range and probably electrolyzers, you probably can see 7%, 8% improvement over the coming 2 years or so.

我認為您可能可以開始考慮液化器正在下降到 8、8.5 千瓦時的範圍內，並且可能是電解槽，您可能會在未來 2 年左右看到 7%、8% 的改進。

But I think that, Jed, you hit it on the head.

但我認為，傑德，你正中了它的頭。

It's the cost of how you negotiate the cost of electricity is the key to providing low-cost green hydrogen.

您如何談判電力成本的成本是提供低成本綠色氫的關鍵。

And as you know, Sanjay is really an expert at that.

如您所知，桑傑確實是這方面的專家。

Well, Sanjay is a master negotiator.

嗯，桑傑是個談判高手。

I guess, either you or Sanjay.

我猜，要么是你，要么是桑傑。

I guess the question on that lower level of electricity pricing, particularly from renewables, have you figured out, is that really a mechanism of curtailment that you're taking into account to get those prices?

我想關於較低水平的電價的問題，特別是可再生能源，你有沒有想過，這真的是你為了獲得這些價格而考慮的一種削減機制嗎？

Or is there anything you might be able to add other than Sanjay's negotiating skills?

或者，除了 Sanjay 的談判技巧之外，您還有什麼可以補充的嗎？

I'll let Sanjay answer that question.

我會讓桑傑回答這個問題。

Yes, it's not the curtailed power, right?

是的，這不是削減的權力，對吧？

But you do bring up a really interesting point.

但你確實提出了一個非常有趣的觀點。

And as you know, today, to be able to really access that curtail electricity even whether it's ITC or PTC, there's a lot more negotiation that has to go on, right?

如您所知，今天，即使是 ITC 或 PTC，為了能夠真正獲得削減的電力，還需要進行更多的談判，對嗎？

So I think it becomes more challenging from that perspective.

所以我認為從這個角度來看它變得更具挑戰性。

But going forward, that could be an interesting area where you could, in fact, see even a benefit from a cost of renewable electricity.

但展望未來，這可能是一個有趣的領域，事實上，您甚至可以從可再生電力成本中看到收益。

But today, look, these are new plants, right?

但是今天，你看，這些是新植物，對吧？

And you've lived this, Jed, in the past and also still now, right?

傑德，你過去和現在都過著這樣的生活，對吧？

Every time you've seen the new generation of whether it's solar or wind or new capacity is being built, LCOE has gone down, right, because driven by the CapEx, driven by the cost of capital.

每當你看到新一代的太陽能、風能或新產能正在建設時，LCOE 都會下降，對，因為受資本支出驅動，受資本成本驅動。

And look, and I think Andy has given you some sense of what the numbers are.

看，我認為安迪已經讓你對這些數字有所了解。

I don't want to go too much more detailed on that, right?

我不想說得太詳細了，對吧？

I think we do want to preserve some of that from a competitive standpoint, but these are the numbers, and that's why we have said what we said about what do we think is going to be the cost of our green hydrogen.

我認為從競爭的角度來看，我們確實希望保留其中的一些，但這些都是數字，這就是為什麼我們說了我們認為我們認為綠色氫的成本將是多少的原因。

And our next question comes from the line of Tom Curran with Seaport Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 Seaport Research 的 Tom Curran。

Returning to the North American green hydrogen generation build-out, so you're expecting to exit 2022 with 4 plants that collectively will be producing 70 tons per day.

回到北美綠色氫氣發電建設，因此您預計將在 2022 年退出 4 家工廠，這些工廠的總產量將達到每天 70 噸。

And then as you turn to 2023, you expect to exit there with 6 representing 200 tons per day.

然後當你轉向 2023 年時，你預計會以 6 個代表每天 200 噸的產量退出那裡。

At this point, just for the exit points of 2022, 2023, Sanjay, could you share with us the percentage of that output that you expect to be looking for third-party offtake?

在這一點上，僅針對 2022 年、2023 年的退出點，Sanjay，您能否與我們分享您希望尋找第三方承購的產出百分比？

In other words, do you already have the visibility, and whether it's a percentage or it's a range, for how much of that 70 tons per day you'll be looking to contract by the end of '22 and then how much of the incremental 1.30 million by the end of 2023?

換句話說，您是否已經了解了，無論是百分比還是范圍，到 22 年底您希望每天收縮多少 70 噸，然後增加多少？到 2023 年底達到 130 萬？

Yes.

是的。

So that's a really good question, right?

所以這是一個非常好的問題，對吧？

So let's take them first on 2022.

因此，讓我們在 2022 年將它們放在首位。

And look, as you know, right, we are obviously the largest user of liquid hydrogen in North America, and we have many new applications, right, that we're seeing a lot of traction on.

看，你知道，對，我們顯然是北美最大的液態氫用戶，我們有許多新的應用，對，我們看到了很多牽引力。

That is going to create.

那將創造。

And some of these numbers you guys might not necessarily put together, if you would, for that incremental demand that materializes.

如果你願意的話，你們可能不一定會把其中一些數字放在一起，以實現實現的增量需求。

But the typical rule of thumb, right, the way we want to think about it as these plants come online, we want to make sure that the 80% or so of that capacity is called for, right?

但是典型的經驗法則，對，當這些工廠上線時，我們想要考慮的方式是，我們希望確保需要 80% 左右的產能，對吧？

We want to make sure that there is about 20% buffer.

我們要確保有大約 20% 的緩衝區。

Why is that important, right?

為什麼這很重要，對吧？

Maybe even 25% buffer, given what we've seen here so far, right?

考慮到我們目前在這裡看到的情況，甚至可能有 25% 的緩衝，對吧？

Because there's always an event that happens in the industry.

因為行業中總會發生事件。

We want to make sure that we have that excess capacity to be able to support our customer and, frankly, the entire hydrogen industry, right?

我們希望確保我們有足夠的產能來支持我們的客戶，坦率地說，支持整個氫工業，對吧？

So we'll be talking to you guys a lot more as we go into second half of next year, how we have loaded these plans for -- that are coming online.

因此，當我們進入明年下半年時，我們將與你們進行更多交流，我們如何加載這些計劃 - 即將上線。

And we'll talk to you a lot more about it, and again, 2023.

我們將在 2023 年再次與您討論。

But one thing that I think is really important to keep in mind, right?

但我認為記住一件事真的很重要，對吧？

When you think about material handling industry, it's 1 kg per day of consumption, right?

當您考慮物料搬運行業時，每天消耗 1 公斤，對嗎？

Then you go to light commercial vehicle, that's 6 kilogram.

然後你去輕型商用車，也就是6公斤。

You go to stationary power and if it's 24/7, it's more than a ton per day, right?

你去固定電源，如果它是 24/7，它每天超過一噸，對吧？

So the multiply effect that you see for this hydrogen demand given all the application we're working on is pretty substantial.

因此，考慮到我們正在開發的所有應用，您看到的這種氫需求的乘數效應是相當可觀的。

So frankly, as we sit here right now, we're not super concerned about loading the plants.

坦率地說，當我們現在坐在這裡時，我們並不十分關心裝載植物。

We want to make sure that we're balancing how we load this plant.

我們想確保我們平衡了我們如何加載這個工廠。

So there is some buffer to be able to mitigate and deal with any type of a situation or curtailment or force majeure that the industry might face so that we can really support the entire hydrogen economy, our customer and frankly, even some of the other players in this market.

因此，有一些緩衝能夠緩解和處理行業可能面臨的任何類型的情況或削減或不可抗力，以便我們能夠真正支持整個氫經濟，我們的客戶，坦率地說，甚至是其他一些參與者在這個市場。

Great.

偉大的。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And then turning to new markets and one of the new markets that hasn't gotten much love yet thus far in the call, stationary power, data center backup power.

然後轉向新市場和迄今為止尚未受到太多關注的新市場之一，即固定電源、數據中心備用電源。

Andy, you mentioned that you're expecting 2022 to be the inflection year for fuel cell mobility and in particular, the Renault JV.

安迪，您提到您預計 2022 年將成為燃料電池移動性的轉折年，尤其是雷諾合資企業。

What year does it look like could be the inflection year for stationary power?

哪一年看起來可能是固定電源的拐點年？

Good questions.

好問題。

I think actually, I haven't thought about that way, but now you've given me a new model to talk about.

我想其實，我沒有想過那樣的方式，但是現在你給了我一個新的模型來談論。

I think it's -- I do think it's 2023 between what we're doing with SK, what we're doing with data centers, the work Keith and his team were doing to get products out the door now.

我認為是——我確實認為現在是 2023 年，介於我們對 SK 所做的事情、我們對數據中心所做的事情以及 Keith 和他的團隊現在為將產品推出市場所做的工作之間。

I think 2020 -- I think next year is a big testing year.

我認為 2020 年——我認為明年是大考驗的一年。

I think 2023 is where this starts taking off.

我認為 2023 年是這開始起飛的地方。

Our next question comes from the line of Pearce Hammond with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Pearce Hammond 和 Piper Sandler。

Yes.

是的。

Well, I'll try to be quick.

好吧，我會盡量快點。

I guess my first question, just following up on all the questions on hydrogen, this is probably more of a housekeeping question.

我想我的第一個問題，只是跟進所有關於氫的問題，這可能更像是一個家務問題。

So with the customers in hydrogen delivery, do you simply pass along your hydrogen cost to the customers?

那麼對於氫氣輸送的客戶，您是否只是將氫氣成本轉嫁給客戶？

Or do you have to wear the hydrogen price risk?

還是必須承擔氫價風險？

Or is that the customers?

還是那是客戶？

So Pearce, with our new network when we control everything, that issue goes away.

所以 Pearce，當我們控制一切時，有了我們的新網絡，這個問題就消失了。

At the moment, as Sanjay talked about, we're buffering some of this because we want the hydrogen economy to be successful.

目前，正如桑傑所說，我們正在緩衝其中的一部分，因為我們希望氫經濟取得成功。

That's what we're doing.

這就是我們正在做的事情。

And look, let me tell you the difference between the network Plug's running and the network that you may see in California, that one of the large industrial gas companies' providing.

看，讓我告訴你 Plug 運行的網絡和你在加利福尼亞看到的網絡之間的區別，這是大型工業氣體公司之一提供的。

We actually make sure hydrogen at this site every day, one time to keep operations going.

實際上，我們每天都在這個站點確保氫氣，一次以保持運營。

And in the end, we strongly believe our approach of having share and then being able to substitute with our green hydrogen, and I can tell you the fact that we're dependable, reliable and have provided stable pricing is going to be a great incentive in the future.

最後，我們堅信我們擁有份額然後能夠用我們的綠色氫替代的方法，我可以告訴你，我們可靠、可靠並提供穩定的定價這一事實將是一個很大的激勵將來。

And I can tell you in some discussions to displace some of the incumbents.

我可以在一些討論中告訴你，以取代一些現任者。

Our next question comes from the line of Joseph Spak of RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 RBC Capital Markets 的 Joseph Spak。

Look, I know you guys are building this business to be profitable and to sort of stand on its own.

聽著，我知道你們建立這項業務是為了盈利並自立。

But going back to sort of the green hydrogen and bringing the molecule cost down by 20% by the end of next year, I want to confirm that, that doesn't include any PTC.

但是回到某種綠色氫，到明年年底將分子成本降低 20%，我想確認，這不包括任何 PTC。

And then if we were to consider that, what would the cost go down to?

然後，如果我們要考慮這一點，成本會下降到多少？

And do you have like an internal sensitivity as what that could do to demand and profitability?

您是否有一種內部敏感性，即這會對需求和盈利能力產生什麼影響？

Absolutely.

絕對地。

Do you want to take that, Sanjay?

你想拿那個嗎，桑傑？

Sure.

當然。

Happy to do that, Andy.

很高興這樣做，安迪。

Joe, good to hear from you as well.

喬，也很高興收到你的來信。

Look, I think first part of your question, no, we have not baked the PTC into that, right?

看，我認為你問題的第一部分，不，我們還沒有將 PTC 納入其中，對吧？

And look, obviously, I think it's a very important policy not just for the U.S. but also for the entire hydrogen economy and as a part of the energy transition effort, right, hydrogen has to be a part of that mix and green hydrogen has to be a part of that mix.

顯然，我認為這不僅對美國而且對整個氫經濟以及作為能源轉型努力的一部分都是非常重要的政策，對，氫必須成為其中的一部分，而綠色氫必須成為這種組合的一部分。

But as we've told you that, and we gave you a number of 30% gross margin, right?

但正如我們告訴你的那樣，我們給了你 30% 的毛利率，對吧？

And that is based on what the ASP is in the market today and what we expect the cost of higher green hydrogen could be by 2024 time frame.

這是基於當今市場上的 ASP 以及我們預計到 2024 年更高綠色氫的成本可能達到的水平。

And if you were to have $2 or $3 of production tax credit depending on the structure of, is it PTC, is it cash grant, you could certainly see substantial cash generation potential out of that, right?

如果您根據結構獲得 2 美元或 3 美元的生產稅收抵免，是 PTC，還是現金補助，您當然可以從中看到可觀的現金生成潛力，對嗎？

But look, things like this are super critical, though.

但是看，這樣的事情是非常關鍵的。

This is exactly what got the wind energy and LCF to where it is right now, investment tax credit in solar got the solar industry to be where it is right now.

這正是風能和 LCF 達到現在的水平的原因，太陽能投資稅收抵免讓太陽能行業達到現在的水平。

So we see a similar benefit for the green hydrogen as well from PTC.

因此，我們看到 PTC 也為綠色氫帶來了類似的好處。

But to your question, for 2022, that margin expansion does not take that into consideration.

但是對於您的問題，對於 2022 年，利潤率擴張並未考慮到這一點。

Okay.

好的。

But if we did, it sounds like your 24 or 25 targets can be maybe pulled forward by a couple of years?

但如果我們這樣做了，聽起來你的 24 或 25 個目標可能會提前幾年？

I think that would probably be a fair characterization, yes.

我認為這可能是一個公平的描述，是的。

Okay.

好的。

And then the second question is just there's, I've pointed out numerous times, a lot going on here, and Plug itself is doing a lot of organic investment, a bunch of JVs, a bunch of partnerships, a bunch of M&A.

然後第二個問題就是，我已經多次指出，這裡發生了很多事情，Plug 本身正在進行大量的有機投資，一堆合資企業，一堆合作夥伴關係，一堆併購。

I think it sometimes gets a little bit hard to judge the efficiency of maybe how you choose to sort of spend your capital.

我認為有時很難判斷您選擇如何花費資金的效率。

I think, Andy, your comments earlier that it doesn't make sense for you to be -- go make some sense.

我認為，安迪，你之前的評論說你是沒有意義的——去做一些有意義的事情。

But if you could just shed a little bit more light on like how you approach a given situation within the hydrogen economy as to sort of whether you do that organically via a venture or via an acquisition.

但是，如果您可以稍微了解一下您如何處理氫經濟中的特定情況，以及您是通過風險投資還是通過收購有機地做到這一點。

I think that's -- so I think when you think of that, how we think about ventures, I think a lot about sales channels.

我認為那是 - 所以我認為當你想到這一點時，我們如何看待風險投資，我想了很多關於銷售渠道的事情。

And if you think about the Renault JV, it provided us -- in theory, I could have gone into the vehicle business.

如果你想想雷諾合資企業，它為我們提供了——理論上，我本可以進入汽車行業。

Renault has 2 distinct advantages that we could not develop over the next 3 to 4 years and even longer.

雷諾有兩個明顯的優勢，我們無法在未來 3 到 4 年甚至更長時間內發展。

One is their electric vehicle capability.

一是他們的電動汽車能力。

The other is their long customer reach and reputation in Europe.

另一個是他們在歐洲的長期客戶影響力和聲譽。

They provide us instantaneous credibility.

它們為我們提供了即時的可信度。

We have the same -- what we bring to the table, obviously, there is we actually know how hydrogen ecosystems work.

我們也有同樣的情況——很明顯，我們帶來了我們實際上知道氫生態系統是如何運作的。

And so I wasn't going to walk into Europe and be European tomorrow.

所以我明天不會走進歐洲成為歐洲人。

I wasn't going to walk into Korea and be Korean tomorrow.

我不打算明天走進韓國成為韓國人。

But let's talk about SK.

但是讓我們談談SK。

Why would we do it with SK?

為什麼我們要用 SK 來做這件事？

Not only is it a partnership, it's a market.

它不僅是一種夥伴關係，它還是一個市場。

They have the hydrogen.

他們有氫氣。

They have the policy in Korea that allow us to put stationary products at scale.

他們在韓國製定了允許我們大規模生產固定產品的政策。

We could not do that alone.

我們無法單獨做到這一點。

When I think about the acquisitions we make, have made, many of them have been technology-oriented to fill in the hydrogen ecosystem.

當我想到我們進行的收購時，其中許多都是以技術為導向的，以填補氫生態系統。

If you think about every one we've done, ones that many in the audience may not remember here, Selex, which allowed us to get into material handling; AFC, which got us in the membrane business; EnergyOr, which is the aviation platform business that we have, what we've done with Frames is really strengthen our electrolyzer technology.

如果你想想我們所做的每一件事情，很多觀眾可能不記得了，Selex，它讓我們進入了材料處理領域； AFC，它讓我們進入了膜業務； EnergyOr，這是我們擁有的航空平台業務，我們對 Frames 所做的確實是加強了我們的電解槽技術。

Giner brought electrolyzers to stack to the equation.

Giner 帶來了電解槽來堆疊等式。

So if I kind of look at -- I would say that the partnerships and ventures are probably more sales channel-oriented, while the acquisitions are more technology-oriented so that we can serve every element in the hydrogen ecosystem.

因此，如果我看一下 - 我會說合作夥伴關係和風險投資可能更注重銷售渠道，而收購更注重技術，以便我們可以服務於氫生態系統中的每一個元素。

I hope that was helpful, Joseph.

我希望這會有所幫助，約瑟夫。

On that note, I think we're done here as far as questions go.

關於這一點，我認為就問題而言，我們已經完成了。

I appreciate everyone's patience who called into this call.

我感謝每個撥打這個電話的人的耐心。

Look, we're building something really special here.

看，我們在這裡建造了一些非常特別的東西。

We are the company -- I was at COP.

我們是公司——我在 COP。

And I was invited to meetings which I never would have been invited in the past, sitting there with John Curry side by side, talking about the hydrogen ecosystem.

我被邀請參加過去從未被邀請的會議，與約翰·庫裡並肩坐在那裡，談論氫生態系統。

Plug's invited to these meetings because not only are we talking about it, you can see we're doing it.

Plug 受邀參加這些會議，因為我們不僅在談論它，而且你可以看到我們正在這樣做。

And we are the company that if you want to build an electrolyzer system at scale, no one else that has the manufacturing capability to do that.

我們是一家如果你想大規模建造電解槽系統的公司，沒有其他人有能力做到這一點。

If you want a full range of fuel cell solutions from stationary to on-road vehicles, Plug actually makes systems that are complete, not just components.

如果您想要從固定式車輛到公路車輛的全系列燃料電池解決方案，Plug 實際上製造的是完整的系統，而不僅僅是組件。

This is a unique company.

這是一家獨特的公司。

And I shouldn't forget the hydrogen, green hydrogen network we're building out.

我不應該忘記我們正在建設的氫、綠色氫網絡。

We're doing it.

我們正在做。

We've broken ground.

我們已經破土動工。

Plants will be online third, fourth quarter.

工廠將在第三、四季度上線。

This isn't a pipe dream in PowerPoint.

這不是 PowerPoint 中的白日夢。

This is real engineering, real people, 2,500 of them now who are making this business real.

這是真正的工程，真正的人，現在有 2,500 人正在使這項業務成為現實。

So thank you all for listening, and I look forward to talking to you in January for our business update call.

感謝大家的聆聽，我期待在 1 月份與您就我們的業務更新電話交談。

That does conclude the conference call for today.

這確實結束了今天的電話會議。

We thank you for your participation and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

我們感謝您的參與，並要求您斷開線路。