普拉格能源 (PLUG) 2020 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Plug Power Fourth Quarter and Year-end 2020 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加 Plug Power 2020 年第四季和年終收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）

It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Teal Hoyos, Director, Marketing Communications. Please go ahead, Teal.

現在我很高興將電話轉給行銷傳播總監 Teal Hoyos。請繼續，蒂爾。

Thank you. Welcome to the 2020 fourth quarter and year-end update call. This call will include forward-looking statements. The forward-looking statements contain projections of our future results of operations, or of our financial position or state other forward-looking information. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

謝謝。歡迎來到2020年第四季和年終更新電話會議。此次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述包含我們未來營運績效或我們財務狀況的預測或陳述其他前瞻性資訊。我們希望這些前瞻性聲明受到 1933 年《證券法》第 27A 條和 1934 年《證券交易法》第 21E 條所載前瞻性陳述安全港條款的涵蓋。

We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements and such statements should not be read as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited, to the risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1a Risk Factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2019, or our quarterly reports filed on Form 10-Q for the quarters ended March 31, June 30 and September 30, 2020 as well as other reports we file from time to time with the SEC.

我們認為，向投資者傳達我們對未來的期望非常重要。然而，投資者應注意不要過度依賴前瞻性陳述，此類陳述不應被視為對未來績效或結果的保證。此類陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果或業績與由於各種因素而討論的結果或業績存在重大差異，這些因素包括但不限於我們的年度報告中第1a 項風險因素中討論的風險與不確定性。截至2019年12月31日的財政年度的表格10-K，或截至2020年3月31日、6月30日和9月30日的季度以表格10-Q提交的季度報告，以及我們不時提交的其他報告美國證券交易委員會。

These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day in which the statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as new -- or as a result of new information.

這些前瞻性聲明僅代表聲明發布之日的情況，我們不承擔或打算在本次電話會議後更新任何前瞻性聲明或作為新的聲明，或作為新資訊的結果。

At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug Power's CEO, Andy Marsh.

現在，我想將電話轉給 Plug Power 的執行長 Andy Marsh。

Thank you, Teal. And good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining the Plug Power end-of-the-year conference call. 2020, as everyone knows, from the world, was a very challenging year. We at Plug Power have been very fortunate. As we participated and witnessed globally the acceptance of hydrogen, especially green hydrogen as critical to help leave the world off fossil fuels. Estimates have been made by experts that hydrogen can represent 18% to 23% of world's energy by 2050 and is ramping today.

謝謝你，蒂爾。大家早安，感謝您參加 Plug Power 年終電話會議。 2020年，對全世界來說，都是非常具有挑戰性的一年。我們 Plug Power 非常幸運。我們參與並見證了全球對氫（尤其是綠色氫）的接受，認為氫對於幫助世界擺脫化石燃料至關重要。專家估計，到 2050 年，氫將佔世界能源的 18% 至 23%，目前還在增加。

We at Plug Power have been building our technology set for decades waiting for this moment. At PowerPoints, there are 10 years old that described how our work then will position us at the right moment. The work was more than technology, but building the first commercial market for fuel cells.

幾十年來，Plug Power 一直在建立我們的技術，等待著這一刻。在 PowerPoints 中，有 10 歲的人描述了我們的工作將如何在正確的時刻為我們定位。這項工作不僅僅是技術，而是建立燃料電池的第一個商業市場。

Our first app, material handling, it's not glamorous, but it's built the company, proved our technology set and launched the full suite of products and new capabilities. Our turnkey solutions have provided end-to-end solutions, including selling hydrogen with building fueling stations and fuel cells and providing aftermarket service, really positions us today.

我們的第一個應用程序，物料搬運，它並不迷人，但它建立了公司，證明了我們的技術集並推出了全套產品和新功能。我們的交鑰匙解決方案提供了端到端的解決方案，包括透過建造加氫站和燃料電池銷售氫氣以及提供售後服務，這使我們今天真正處於領先地位。

Our relationships with Amazon and Walmart gave us insight into how to improve our offering, but also helped us identify and missing links in our portfolios. One of these insights was that large corporations' sustainability goals are real, and that for the market to expand green hydrogen was a necessity.

我們與亞馬遜和沃爾瑪的關係讓我們深入了解如何改進我們的產品，同時也幫助我們識別了產品組合中缺少的環節。其中一個見解是，大公司的永續發展目標是真實的，市場擴大綠氫是必要的。

Green hydrogen also became practical over the last couple of years since this is closely linked to the declining cost of renewable electricity. This insight drove us to make 3 decisions in 2020. We purchased the leading electrolyzer technology company, Gine ELX, that had the electrolyzer technology to convert electricity to hydrogen, green hydrogen. Two, we purchased United Hydrogen the first private company to build a large-scale liquid hydrogen plant. And finally, we made a commitment to build the first U.S. nationwide green hydrogen degeneration network, reaching 500 tonnes a day of capacity by 2025 and 1,000 tons per day globally by 2028. The macro trends to a more sustainable world, the recognition of hydrogen is vital to meeting these goals and Plug Power's expertise opened many relationships for us in the past year.

綠氫在過去幾年也變得實用，因為這與再生電力成本的下降密切相關。這項洞察促使我們在 2020 年做出了 3 個決定。我們收購了領先的電解槽技術公司 Gine ELX，該公司擁有將電能轉化為氫氣、綠氫的電解槽技術。第二，我們收購了聯合氫能公司，這是第一家建造大型液氫工廠的私人公司。最後，我們承諾建立美國第一個全國性綠色氫分解網絡，到 2025 年產能達到每天 500 噸，到 2028 年全球產能達到每天 1,000 噸。世界更永續發展的宏觀趨勢，對氫的認可是對於實現這些目標至關重要，Plug Power 的專業知識在過去一年為我們建立了許多關係。

Let me name a few. Brookfield and Apex, both partnered with Plug Power to provide sources of low-cost renewable electricity to generate green hydrogen. By the end 2022, we'll have over 70 tons to 100 tons per day at green hydrogen available in the U.S. by Plug Power.

讓我舉幾個例子。 Brookfield 和 Apex 均與 Plug Power 合作，提供低成本再生電力來源來生產綠氫。到 2022 年底，Plug Power 在美國每天將提供超過 70 噸至 100 噸的綠色氫氣。

Renault, a leading global auto manufacturer, recognized Plug Power's unique ability to offer full turnkey solutions to the light commercial vehicle market. From their experience in these EVs, they recognized they need to offer more than the vehicle. The JV, which will be selling vehicles and fueling stations, will be formalized by late second quarter or early 3Q.

全球領先的汽車製造商雷諾認識到 Plug Power 為輕型商用車市場提供全套交鑰匙解決方案的獨特能力。根據他們在這些電動車方面的經驗，他們認識到他們需要提供的不僅僅是車輛。該合資企業將銷售車輛和加油站，將於第二季末或第三季初正式成立。

SK, the second largest Korean conglomerate, recognized that Plug Power was the only company that could offer a complete solution in the hydrogen industry. We will be building everything from large-scale stationary products, hydrogen plants, electrolyzers and other apps. We will build a second gigafactory in Korea. The time line for this JV has been accelerating. And will be formally closed by the mid-third quarter. Also, as you may have seen, SK finalized their $1.6 billion investment into Plug Power last night.

韓國第二大企業集團 SK 意識到 Plug Power 是唯一一家能夠在氫能產業提供完整解決方案的公司。我們將建造從大型固定產品、氫氣製造裝置、電解槽到其他應用程式的一切。我們將在韓國建立第二家超級工廠。該合資企業的建設進度一直在加快。並將於第三季中期正式關閉。此外，正如您可能已經看到的，SK 昨晚完成了對 Plug Power 的 16 億美元投資。

And four, and another step in our global green hydrogen story, Plug Power announced the deal with Spain's second largest renewable electricity supplier, ACCIONA. The JV plans to build 100 tons of green hydrogen generation capacity on the Iberian Peninsula. We'll be announcing more partnerships in 2021.

第四，Plug Power 宣布與西班牙第二大再生電力供應商 ACCIONA 達成交易，這是我們全球綠氫故事的另一步。該合資公司計劃在伊比利半島建設100噸綠色氫氣生產產能。我們將在 2021 年宣布更多合作關係。

Now back to 2020. In 2020, we experienced a 42% increase in gross billings, achieving $337 million. We're now generating cash from operations excluding the need for working capital, which is needed to grow. In 2021, we'll exceed $475 million in gross billings, with over 93% already accounted for in our plan. We have never been afraid of tough decisions. We accelerated warrants at the end of 2020. This decision will have the side benefit and making our GAAP financials more in line with how we operate our business. It caused a large onetime noncash charge but clears the deck for the future and quite a future. With $5 billion in the bag, a thoughtful expansion plan, a unique market opportunity, now it's the right time for Plug Power to invest.

現在回到 2020 年。2020 年，我們的總營收成長了 42%，達到 3.37 億美元。我們現在透過營運產生現金，不包括成長所需的營運資金。到 2021 年，我們的總營收將超過 4.75 億美元，其中 93% 以上已納入我們的計劃。我們從不害怕艱難的決定。我們在 2020 年底加速了認股權證的發行。這項決定將帶來附帶好處，並使我們的 GAAP 財務狀況更加符合我們的業務運作方式。它造成了一筆巨大的一次性非現金費用，但卻為未來和相當美好的未來掃清了障礙。憑藉 50 億美元的資金、深思熟慮的擴張計劃、獨特的市場機會，現在正是 Plug Power 投資的最佳時機。

Our goals for 2021 are clear. Gross billings of $475 million. Annual gross margins in the high teens, achieving 20% by the fourth quarter. We view gross margin expansion as a critical indicator that our investments are paying off. Three, successfully launching our 2 JVs with Renault and SK. Four, continued expansion of our business via partnerships, acquisitions and other relationships. And finally, positioning the company to achieve $750 million in gross billings in 2022, which will position us for our $1.7 billion goal for 2020.

我們 2021 年的目標很明確。總營收為 4.75 億美元。年度毛利率高達十幾歲，到第四季達到 20%。我們將毛利率擴張視為我們的投資獲得回報的關鍵指標。第三，成功推出我們與雷諾和SK的兩家合資企業。第四，透過合作夥伴關係、收購和其他關係持續擴展我們的業務。最後，公司將在 2022 年實現總營收 7.5 億美元，這將使我們能夠實現 2020 年 17 億美元的目標。

Paul and I are now available for any questions you may have.

保羅和我現在可以回答您的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) First question today is coming from Eric Stine from Craig-Hallum.

（操作員說明）今天的第一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum 的 Eric Stine。

So you had mentioned in the prepared remarks there that the SK partnership, obviously, the investment closed overnight. But maybe just some clarity into how it's accelerated. Since that announcement, how do you view the opportunity? And maybe which areas do you think move faster than others?

所以你在準備好的演講中提到了 SK 合作夥伴關係，顯然，投資一夜之間就結束了。但也許只是對它如何加速有一些清晰的了解。自從該公告發布以來，您如何看待這個機會？也許您認為哪些領域比其他領域發展得更快？

Sure. So Eric, when we made the announcement, I think that I started out by saying I thought we were being conservative. We have developed actually 6 workstreams in the development of this JV, where the teams are meeting 2 to 3x a week. We've identified certain business opportunities, quite honestly, that are much larger than we even thought initially.

當然。艾瑞克，當我們宣布這一消息時，我想我一開始就說我認為我們很保守。在這個合資企業的開發過程中，我們實際上開發了 6 個工作流程，團隊每週召開 2 到 3 次會議。老實說，我們已經發現了某些商機，這些商機比我們原本想像的要大得多。

And that -- I think that the first 3 opportunities will be, one, large-scale power generation, I would expect we'll be shipping products later this year or early next year. That's not in our $475 million plan. I think the second is SK has a real commitment to sustainability. I think you'll see electrolyzer products be moving over into SK for usage, again, early next year. And finally, there's a lot of work ongoing with hydrogen generation and fueling stations.

我認為前三個機會將是，一是大規模發電，我預計我們將在今年稍後或明年初交付產品。這不在我們 4.75 億美元的計劃中。我認為第二是SK對永續發展有真正的承諾。我想明年初你會再次看到電解槽產品轉移到 SK 使用。最後，氫氣和加氫站方面正在進行大量工作。

Got it. Okay. And just to clarify what I think I heard that, that's not in the $475 million on the large-scale power...

知道了。好的。只是為了澄清我認為我聽到的內容，這不包括在 4.75 億美元的大規模電力中...

That's correct. That's not in the $475 million. The $475 million, as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, we have 93% in half at the moment. Usually, we're at 75% level at this time.

這是正確的。這並不在 4.75 億美元之內。正如我在準備好的演講中提到的，4.75 億美元目前我們佔了 93%。通常，此時我們處於 75% 的水平。

Got it. And maybe sticking with that topic -- or well, so you've got the 4 pedestal customers in materials handling. Curious what type of mix you see from those 4, the 1 recently added, but those 4 in 2021.

知道了。也許會堅持這個主題——或者好吧，這樣你就有了 4 個材料處理領域的重要客戶。很好奇您從這 4 個中看到了什麼類型的組合，其中 1 個是最近添加的，而這 4 個是 2021 年添加的。

And then you typically don't give the forward-year outlook this early in the year, at least I don't remember that you have. So I'd love to hear what the visibility you have is from the 4 customers you've got and potentially some others that you add into that 2022 goal that you've given today?

然後你通常不會在今年早些時候給出對未來的展望，至少我不記得你有這樣做過。所以我很想聽聽您所擁有的 4 個客戶以及您今天提出的 2022 年目標中可能添加的其他一些客戶的可見度如何？

Sure. So we have between those 4 customers and others -- and Eric, those 4 customers probably represent 80% of our deployments here in 2020. 2021, that circle in the range that there's already $400 million in-house that's available for shipment this year. And it's -- I think that 1 of those 4 would represent more like 30%, and the rest will be kind of split a little bit even.

當然。因此，我們有這 4 個客戶和其他客戶，埃里克，這 4 個客戶可能占我們 2020 年和 2021 年部署的 80%，這個範圍內今年已經有 4 億美元的內部資金可用於發貨。我認為這 4 個中的 1 個將代表 30% 左右，其餘的將稍微平均分配。

Got it. And then just in terms of a little bit on 2022, I mean that -- maybe you have given the forward year -- not the current year, but the forward-year guide or outlook this early. But just curious, you've got better visibility than you typically do into 2021. But what type of visibility do you have into 2022 based on their plans? And how does that compare to historical?

知道了。然後就 2022 年而言，我的意思是——也許你已經給出了未來一年——不是今年，而是提前一年的指南或展望。但只是好奇，你對 2021 年的能見度比通常情況下更好。但是根據他們的計劃，你對 2022 年有什麼類型的能見度？與歷史相比如何？

Yes. I mean, the -- I mean, I think there's 3 items going on here that helps us with 2020 to be able to have the insight into 2022. Obviously, after all these years, with many of these material handling customers. And I've got to talk about the 4, we're not doing short-term planning. We're doing 3- to 5-year planning. So there's a good deal of insight into their activities.

是的。我的意思是，我認為這裡發生的 3 件事可以幫助我們在 2020 年深入了解 2022 年。顯然，經過這麼多年，我們擁有許多物料搬運客戶。我必須談 4，我們沒有做短期計畫。我們正在做3到5年的規劃。因此，人們對他們的活動有很多了解。

The electrolyzer sales funnel was strong. And this year, we'll take that business, and like we've been a material handling, increase it by a factor of 7 or 8 this year, it will be in the $40 million-plus range, and we have a funnel that's close to $1 billion already built up for the electrolyzer business. And I think -- and as you know, Eric, everything in the funnel doesn't happen.

電解槽銷售通路很強大。今年，我們將接手這項業務，就像我們一直在進行物料搬運一樣，今年將其增加 7 或 8 倍，它將在 4000 萬美元以上的範圍內，我們有一個漏斗電解槽業務已籌集近10億美元。我認為——正如你所知，埃里克，漏斗中的一切都不會發生。

And finally, when I take a look at, especially with SK with some of the initial deployment as well as with Renault, we're kind of sitting back feeling very, very good about how we achieve the 2021 goals.

最後，當我看一下，特別是 SK 的一些初步部署以及雷諾時，我們對如何實現 2021 年目標感到非常非常滿意。

Our next question today is coming from Colin Rusch from Oppenheimer.

今天我們的下一個問題來自奧本海默的 Colin Rusch。

Can you guys give us an update on where you're at just in terms of specific projects in terms of identifying sites on the renewable side for supporting the hydrogen rollout? And then how big the queue is behind that in terms of the sites that you could grow into as you start to see demand emerge?

可以為我們介紹一下你們在確定再生能源方面支持氫能推廣的具體專案方面的最新進展嗎？那麼，當您開始看到需求出現時，您可以發展的網站的隊列有多大？

So very clear, Colin. So we have 4 sites, 3 of them, which are moving into development stage, 2 in the Northeast, 1 in the Southeast and 1 in California because of, as you know, permitting issues in California can take a little bit longer, but we already actually own the land in California for the hot green hydrogen plant in the Valley around Frisco.

非常清楚，科林。所以我們有4 個地點，其中3 個正在進入開發階段，2 個在東北部，1 個在東南部，1 個在加州，因為如您所知，加州的許可問題可能需要更長的時間，但我們實際上已經擁有加州弗里斯科周圍山谷的熱綠色氫工廠的土地。

We have probably over 15 to 17 renewable sites we're looking at for the ability to generate green hydrogen, which are spread widely across the country. I think the first 2 plants, first 2 or 3 plants, you'll see go up. I think you'll see 1 in the Northeast, 1 in the Southwest and 1 in Texas.

我們可能有超過 15 到 17 個可再生地點，我們正在尋找能夠產生綠色氫氣的能力，這些地點廣泛分佈在全國各地。我認為前 2 株植物，前 2 或 3 株植物，你會看到上升。我想您會在東北部看到 1 個，在西南部看到 1 個，在德克薩斯州看到 1 個。

Okay. And as you look at those opportunities, is that going to be an opportunity for you guys to also build some sort of regulation or storage-type applications adjacent to those sites to help stabilize the grid. Certainly, that's one of the opportunities for hydrogen in terms of kind of being the connective tissue for some intermittent renewables and the larger power grid. But are those sites being chosen with multiple purposes in mind?

好的。當您看到這些機會時，這對您來說是否也是一個機會，可以在這些站點附近構建某種調節或存儲類型的應用程序，以幫助穩定電網。當然，這是氫的機會之一，因為它可以成為一些間歇性再生能源和更大電網的結締組織。但選擇這些網站是否考慮了多種目的？

I'm going to say -- I'm going to give you a wishy-washy answer here. Yes, but not nearly as clearly defined as the generation portion. All these sites are grid-connected, though before the meter. So they're cost or wholesale-type prices. But -- and we've been obviously thinking a great deal about the issue you bring up.

我要說的是——我將在這裡給你一個軟弱無力的答案。是的，但不像一代部分那樣明確定義。所有這些站點都已併網，但在電錶之前。所以它們是成本價或批發價。但是——我們顯然對你提出的問題進行了許多思考。

First and foremost, and we are committed to green hydrogen and providing our customers green hydrogen. And I can tell you when -- not surprising when we look at the wind farm activity. That we're looking at in Texas. And by the way, the wind farm user we work with actually was very successful doing the recent Texas storm. We certainly are looking the wind energy, how we put wind back on the grid at the right time and how to use it at the right time. But we are also -- and that's really clearly defined, but certainly, storage and generation is in the back of our mind, especially after what we see going on around the world. I think -- by the way, Colin, I think if that's the case, it's going to help us a great deal in those earnings.

首先，我們致力於綠氫並為我們的客戶提供綠氫。我可以告訴你，當我們觀察風電場的活動時，這並不奇怪。我們正在德克薩斯州看到這一點。順便說一句，與我們合作的風電場用戶實際上在最近的德克薩斯州風暴中非常成功。我們當然正在研究風能，如何在正確的時間將風重新連接到電網以及如何在正確的時間使用它。但我們也是——這是非常明確的定義，但當然，儲存和發電是在我們的腦海中，特別是在我們看到世界各地發生的事情之後。我認為——順便說一句，科林，我認為如果是這樣的話，這將對我們的收入有很大幫助。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is coming from Jeff Osborne from Cowen.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Jeff Osborne。

Congratulations on all the success so far. You've got a lot of irons in the fire for 2021. And I was just wondering if you can give us a sense of the operating expense trends and CapEx for modeling purposes as you gear up for the very heavy growth you've got for '22 through '24 that you talked about, Andy?

祝賀迄今為止的所有成功。 2021 年你有很多事情要做。我只是想知道，當你為即將到來的巨大增長做好準備時，你能否讓我們了解一下運營費用趨勢和用於建模目的的資本支出安迪，你有提到「22 到24」嗎？

Sure. So Jeff, I would -- from the CapEx area, I would probably circle somewhere around $750 million, with most of that going to support the expansion of these hydrogen plants. We've done CapEx modeling for the next 5 years. And we still see a significant surplus on our balance sheet, even with our aggressive plans to build out these hydrogen plants.

當然。所以傑夫，我會——從資本支出領域來看，我可能會圈出大約 7.5 億美元，其中大部分將用於支持這些氫工廠的擴張。我們已經完成了未來 5 年的資本支出建模。即使我們積極計劃建造這些氫工廠，我們的資產負債表上仍然存在大量盈餘。

So to reach the 500 tons a day and to achieve everything we're looking to do, it's probably somewhere in the $2 billion to $2.5 billion range long term.

因此，要達到每天 500 噸的產量並實現我們想要做的一切，長期來看可能需要 20 億至 25 億美元。

As far as op expense, Paul, you may want to comment on that. Jeff, I would expect our op expense may be up to 30% higher this year. Paul, do you want to add to that?

至於營運費用，保羅，你可能想對此發表評論。傑夫，我預計今年我們的營運費用可能會增加 30%。保羅，你想補充一下嗎？

Yes. I think -- yes, I'm sorry, Andy, can you hear me?

是的。我想——是的，對不起，安迪，你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

The signal is not so great where I'm at. I apologize. But yes, I think that's right, Andy. I mean I think in that 30% to low 30% range per quarter is a good number. And I think one of the key things, Jeff, for this year, is you're going to see definite growth in sales and gross margins, and there's a strong focus there.

我所在的地方訊號不太好。我道歉。但是，是的，我認為這是對的，安迪。我的意思是，我認為每季 30% 到低 30% 的範圍內是一個不錯的數字。傑夫，我認為今年的關鍵事情之一是，你將看到銷售額和毛利率的明確增長，並且人們強烈關注這一點。

And as Andy alluded, we're going to be investing in CapEx and some OpEx to -- for all these growth platforms. Because there's a lot in the fire and a lot of things happening. And we see the opportunity to really accelerate the growth even further. And so you will see some of that this year.

正如安迪所提到的，我們將投資所有這些成長平台的資本支出和一些營運支出。因為火災發生了很多事情，發生了很多事情。我們看到了真正進一步加速成長的機會。所以今年你會看到其中的一些。

Got it. And then the -- is the 30% comment, is that off of the fourth quarter run rate or the aggregate number for all of 2020?

知道了。然後 - 是 30% 的評論，是第四季度的運行率還是 2020 年全年的總數？

Yes. I would -- go ahead, Paul. Paul? Jeff, can you hear me?

是的。我會——繼續吧，保羅。保羅？傑夫，你聽得到我說話嗎？

I can hear you, Andy. Just given the fourth quarter was up quite sharply. I just want to make sure I'm using the right dataset.

我聽得到你的聲音，安迪。考慮到第四季的成長相當急劇。我只是想確保我使用的是正確的數據集。

No, no. I would use the annual basis, Jeff.

不，不。我會使用年度基礎，傑夫。

Got it. And then how are we proceeding along just given the pretty heavy CapEx there over the year as well as the upcoming years for these facilities. Are we at a point in time now where these sites can use leverage? Or is this all going to be straight out of the cash balance?

知道了。考慮到這些設施今年以及未來幾年的資本支出相當沉重，我們的進展如何。我們現在是否正處於這些網站可以利用槓桿的時間點？或者這一切將直接從現金餘額中扣除？

I'll let Paul -- so I think the answer to your questions, yes.

我會讓保羅——所以我想你的問題的答案是，是的。

Paul, are you there? Okay. I guess I'm going to have to take it, Jeff.

保羅，你在嗎？好的。我想我必須接受它，傑夫。

I think you're going to see leverage coming into play. And I think you hit on a good point, Jeff. When I -- we've done modeling to make sure we have sufficient cash balances during the -- to do it all on our own. But I think you're going to start probably seeing leverage in the second half of the year as we start doing the build-out. So there has been work going on there.

我認為你會看到槓桿作用發揮作用。我認為你說得很好，傑夫。當我——我們已經完成了建模，以確保我們在這段期間有足夠的現金餘額——來自己完成這一切。但我認為，隨著我們開始進行擴建，您可能會在今年下半年開始看到槓桿作用。所以那裡的工作正在進行中。

And I think they'll see probably -- on a conservative basis, we've said to ourselves what if we did it with all equity. We can do that. We're in a position to do that now, but we don't expect that to be the path.

我認為他們可能會看到——在保守的基礎上，我們已經對自己說過，如果我們完全公平地做到這一點會怎麼樣。我們能做到這一點。我們現在有能力做到這一點，但我們不希望這成為正確的道路。

Got it. And my last one for you, Andy, is just the 2 joint ventures, are we at a point in time where we can -- you can confirm that the results of those JVs will be consolidated in terms of revenue? Or will these all be below the line? That might be more of a question for Paul. But just in terms of the accounting treatment of the joint ventures themselves.

知道了。安迪，我的最後一個問題只是關於兩家合資企業，我們現在是否可以——您可以確認這些合資企業的業績將在收入方面得到整合嗎？或者這些都將低於該線？對保羅來說，這可能是一個更大的問題。但僅就合資企業本身的會計處理而言。

Yes. I know we're working in the negotiations to make sure we can consolidate. And I think it's -- I think we're getting there. I think that both partners understand the criticality of that for Plug.

是的。我知道我們正在進行談判以確保我們能夠進行整合。我認為我們正在實現這一目標。我認為合作雙方都了解這一點對 Plug 的重要性。

As you know, Jeff, there's a lot of accounting that goes into that. A lot of legal work that goes into that, but our team has been working there.

如你所知，傑夫，這涉及到很多會計工作。這涉及到很多法律工作，但我們的團隊一直在這方面工作。

Our next question today is coming from Craig Irwin from ROTH Capital Partners.

今天我們的下一個問題來自羅斯資本合夥公司的克雷格歐文。

I need to say congratulations, too. You guys had an absolutely phenomenal 2020, and let's continue that in 2021. So congrats.

我也需要說一句恭喜。你們度過了一個絕對非凡的 2020 年，讓我們在 2021 年繼續這樣。所以恭喜。

Yes. My Board agrees with you, Craig.

是的。我的董事會同意你的觀點，克雷格。

Good. They should. So Andy, one of the things we haven't talked about much, but there is actually tremendous appetite for it out there is fuel cell trucks, right? Investors really want to see companies be successful in this market given the opportunity in the way to move away from oil and the potential for long-term economics even on green hydrogen to be really interesting.

好的。他們應該。安迪，我們還沒有談論太多的事情之一，但實際上人們對它有巨大的興趣，那就是燃料電池卡車，對嗎？投資者確實希望看到公司在這個市場上取得成功，因為他們有機會擺脫石油，而且即使是綠氫的長期經濟潛力也非常有趣。

Can you maybe update us on what's going on in green in the fuel cell trucks for you right now? Are there new partnerships sort of percolating out there? What's the status with the different customers you've disclosed to date?

您能否向我們介紹一下您目前燃料電池卡車的綠色進展？是否有新的合作關係正在滲透？迄今為止您所揭露的不同客戶的狀況如何？

Sure. So Craig, I think that the model that we've used for Renault in Europe is one that we're looking to duplicate. And I can tell you that a good deal of our forward-looking thinking at the moment has to do with how to address that market.

當然。所以克雷格，我認為我們正在尋求複製歐洲雷諾使用的模型。我可以告訴你，目前我們的前瞻性思維很大程度上與如何應對該市場有關。

I think there's a couple of items we concluded. And I think the big one is we don't want to just be a first-tier auto parts supplier. And the JV with or no was structure that we're jointly selling vehicles because we have seen what happens in the world if you're just a part supplier to the auto industry.

我認為我們得出了幾個結論。我認為最重要的是我們不想只是成為一流的汽車零件供應商。無論有沒有合資企業，我們都會共同銷售車輛，因為我們已經看到，如果你只是汽車行業的零件供應商，世界上會發生什麼。

And I also don't know if you just go about doing the old way of just building cars and vehicles, like the auto industry has done traditionally. That you end up in a purchasing office instead of a CEO office.

我也不知道你是否只是繼續採用舊的方式來製造汽車和車輛，就像汽車行業傳統上所做的那樣。你最終會進入採購辦公室而不是執行長辦公室。

We do have discussions going on in the United States and elsewhere, especially with a focus on heavy-duty vehicles. One of our -- 2 of our big customers we'll actually be doing pilots very shortly. We also have already done work with folks who are kind of Tier 2 players like Nissan. But I think, finally, on top of that, we're -- with Renault, we have a fairly aggressive plan to really start rollouts by the fourth -- in the fourth quarter, early first quarter, with some initial deployments in the light commercial vehicle space where there are apps where it makes sense.

我們確實在美國和其他地方進行了討論，特別是專注於重型車輛。我們的一個——我們的兩個大客戶實際上很快就會進行試點。我們也已經與像 Nissan 這樣的二級廠商進行了合作。但我認為，最後，最重要的是，我們與雷諾一起制定了一個相當積極的計劃，在第四季度、第一季度初真正開始推出，並根據情況進行了一些初步部署商用車領域存在有意義的應用程式。

When it comes to green hydrogen, I think like most people, we believe that electricity under $0.04 a kilowatt-hour makes green hydrogen, especially as a fuel, very competitive with grey hydrogen today. And as you know, Sanjay has spent an incredible amount of time thinking through how we can offer a better product than grey hydrogen with green hydrogen at similar pricing and make margins for Plug Power.

說到綠氫，我和大多數人一樣認為，每千瓦時 0.04 美元以下的電力使得綠氫，特別是作為燃料，與當今的灰氫相比非常具有競爭力。如你所知，Sanjay 花了大量時間思考我們如何以相似的價格提供比灰氫和綠色氫更好的產品，並為 Plug Power 賺取利潤。

And I think you've been around this a long time, Craig. That's what our customers want. I mean, they'll pay a slight premium for green, but nobody is looking to pay a huge, huge premium to be green.

我想你已經關注這個問題很久了，克雷格。這就是我們的客戶想要的。我的意思是，他們會為綠色支付一點溢價，但沒有人願意為綠色支付巨大的溢價。

Understood. That makes a lot of sense. My next question is about the infrastructure to fuel trials, potential small fleets of fuel cell trucks. So last year, you did mention that Plug had done some work with its existing partners, retrofitting some of the fueling infrastructure that serves their forklift fleets so that they could start with potentially doing fuel cell truck trials, maybe distribution to -- distribution center to distribution center-type work. Can you maybe update us on that?

明白了。這很有意義。我的下一個問題是關於燃料試驗的基礎設施，潛在的小型燃料電池卡車車隊。去年，您確實提到 Plug 與其現有合作夥伴進行了一些合作，改造了為其堆高機車隊提供服務的一些加油基礎設施，以便他們可以開始進行燃料電池卡車試驗，也許會配送到配送中心配送中心式工作。您能給我們更新一下嗎？

And then more importantly, Tesla gets $400 million a quarter basically in credits. And a large chunk of that $400 million comes from the installation of their supercharger network, they're charging infrastructure out there under the California incentive programs. Can you talk about the potential to pull down some of these incentives just by building out the network for your customers? Have you already got applications in? When do you expect that to potentially be achievable?

更重要的是，特斯拉每季獲得 4 億美元的信用額度。這 4 億美元中的很大一部分來自安裝他們的超級充電網絡，他們根據加州激勵計劃為那裡的基礎設施充電。您能否談談僅透過為客戶建立網路來降低其中一些激勵措施的潛力？你已經收到申請了嗎？您預計什麼時候可以實現這個目標？

So if I look at -- I'm going to use 2 examples for you, Craig. When we look at the LCFS credits in California, we look at where we believe we can come with CI scores, especially since we are looking to be moving hydrogen with green hydrogen trucks that, at the pump, we believe the credit can be up to $4 a kilogram.

因此，如果我看一下——克雷格，我將為您使用兩個例子。當我們查看加州的 LCFS 積分時，我們會考慮我們認為可以在哪些方面獲得 CI 分數，特別是因為我們希望透過綠色氫氣卡車運輸氫氣，在泵浦上，我們相信積分可以達到4美元一公斤。

So for those who are listening here who don't -- who may not understand, I mean that makes our cost, depending on how you split the green hydrogen. That almost makes the green hydrogen and probably does make it very, very less than fossil fuel diesel energy significantly.

因此，對於那些在這裡聽的人來說，他們可能不明白，我的意思是，這會影響我們的成本，這取決於你如何分解綠氫。這幾乎就是綠色氫，而且可能確實大大低於化石燃料柴油能源。

We also -- there is also bills beginning to circulate around Congress associated with the Biden green climate plan, which is suggesting up to a $2 credit per kilogram for green hydrogen, that makes the choice between green hydrogen and grey hydrogen, incredibly competitive. So I think that once Sanjay has his first 100 tons up that there'll be a great deal of government supports and credits and a real huge opportunity to increase the margin for Plug Power long term.

我們也——還有一些與拜登綠色氣候計畫相關的法案開始在國會流傳，該計畫建議對綠氫每公斤提供高達2 美元的信用額度，這使得綠氫和灰氫之間的選擇變得極具競爭力。因此，我認為，一旦 Sanjay 的產量達到第一個 100 噸，將會獲得大量的政府支持和信貸，以及真正增加 Plug Power 長期利潤的巨大機會。

Our next question today is coming from Jed Dorsheimer from Canaccord Genuity.

今天我們的下一個問題來自 Canaccord Genuity 的 Jed Dorsheimer。

I'm going to do a quick check here. I just want to know if my partners back on the line with me.

我要在這裡快速檢查一下。我只是想知道我的合作夥伴是否重新與我通話。

Okay.

好的。

Paul, are you there?

保羅，你在嗎？

Yes. Andy, I'm here. I'm so sorry. Yes, I'm here, Andy. I don't know why this thing got out, but I'm back.

是的。安迪，我來了。我很抱歉。是的，我在這裡，安迪。我不知道為什麼這件事會傳出去，但我又回來了。

Okay. All right, Jed.

好的。好吧，傑德。

All right. Perfect. So a couple of questions. I guess just one, on the material handling side, and this might be better served for Paul because it kind of gets into warrant structure a little bit. But if I look at 2 of your 4 major customers, I've actually -- in '20 years, I've never seen this. I mean it's actually a fantastic situation where your customers are literally getting paid to take the product based on the kind of the warrants in 2017 because your stock has been so strong.

好的。完美的。有幾個問題。我想只有一個，在材料處理方面，這可能對保羅來說更好，因為它有點進入了授權結構。但如果我看看你們 4 個主要客戶中的 2 個，我實際上——在 20 年來，我從未見過這種情況。我的意思是，這實際上是一種奇妙的情況，您的客戶實際上可以根據 2017 年的認股權證類型獲得報酬來購買產品，因為您的庫存一直如此強勁。

So with the expiration of Amazon, I'm just wondering how -- and now only Walmart, how does that change the visibility in terms of -- how do you, Paul, kind of think about the bookings when this starts to pivot away? Because I'm assuming here that Walmart would also exercise the expiration here, too.

因此，隨著亞馬遜的到期，我只是想知道，現在只有沃爾瑪，這將如何改變可見性——保羅，當這種情況開始改變時，你如何看待預訂？因為我在這裡假設沃爾瑪也會在這裡行使到期日。

I'm going to take that, Jed, question, and I'm going to hand it off to Paul. So Jed, the warrants on that, most of the warrants have not been exercised. Walmart and Amazon, both have significant interest in the success of Plug Power financially. It's -- obviously, the -- I'm sure it wouldn't strike anybody surprisingly. I'm quite pleased with what happened.

傑德，我要接受這個問題，然後將其交給保羅。所以傑德，關於認股權證，大部分認股權證都沒有被行使。沃爾瑪和亞馬遜都對 Plug Power 的財務成功抱持著濃厚的興趣。顯然，我相信這不會讓任何人感到驚訝。我對所發生的事情非常滿意。

They -- they are -- and I'll then I'll hand it off to Paul, but they are committed to -- both companies view that hydrogen is critical for long term -- to meet their long-term climate goals and that they have a partner with Plug Power that goes well beyond financials. That has proven that we can deliver the product sets they need, and they continue to help us, both of them, to find new opportunities for fuel cells in green hydrogen. I can tell you 1 of them actually introduced me to 2 of their other investments in the last 3 weeks to help us grow and propel this business beyond just direct business with them.

他們——他們是——然後我會把它交給保羅，但他們致力於——兩家公司都認為氫對長期至關重要——以實現他們的長期氣候目標，並且他們與Plug Power 的合作夥伴遠遠超出了金融領域。這證明我們可以提供他們所需的產品組合，並且他們繼續幫助我們雙方尋找綠色氫燃料電池的新機會。我可以告訴你，他們中的一位實際上在過去三週內向我介紹了他們的另外兩項投資，以幫助我們發展並推動這項業務超越與他們的直接業務。

On that note, Paul, I hand it off to you.

關於這一點，保羅，我把它交給你了。

Yes. Thanks, Andy. And I guess, the main comment that I would make is that by the fact that these have all -- the expenses for the 1 customer have been all reflected and reported at this point, there won't be additional charges for those in the future. And that should significantly make it easier and more simple in terms of interpretation on the results as we go forward.

是的。謝謝，安迪。我想，我要發表的主要評論是，由於這些已經全部反映並報告了 1 個客戶的費用，因此將來不會對這些費用產生額外費用。隨著我們的前進，這應該會顯著使得對結果的解釋變得更加容易和簡單。

And I expect we've been using gross billings as a means by which to communicate the revenue and sales activities without those charges. But I think going forward, that number should be a lot closer to the GAAP revenue number, which will make it easier as well as we move forward.

我預計我們一直在使用總帳單作為傳達收入和銷售活動的方式，而無需支付這些費用。但我認為，展望未來，這個數字應該更接近 GAAP 收入數字，這將使我們更容易前進。

Got it. And just to be clear, I mean, I'm not challenging their commitment. But if I just look at it -- if their strike price is at $13 to buy product, and your stock is at $50, they are being paid a significant amount of money to actually take your product. And so it does change kind of the relationship a bit once that expires. I guess that was really the core of my question. I think you -- and to be clear, Amazon is done and Walmart isn't.

知道了。需要澄清的是，我的意思是，我並不是在挑戰他們的承諾。但如果我看一下——如果他們購買產品的執行價格為 13 美元，而你的股票價格為 50 美元，那麼他們將獲得大量資金來實際購買你的產品。因此，一旦到期，這種關係確實會發生一些改變。我想這確實是我問題的核心。我認為你——需要明確的是，亞馬遜已經完蛋了，而沃爾瑪還沒有。

Yes. And to be clear, Jed, and I'm not going to name specific customer name. They still own -- those companies own a lot of warrants that have not been exercised.

是的。要先明確的是，傑德和我不會說出具體客戶的名字。他們仍然擁有——這些公司擁有大量尚未行使的認股權證。

Got it. Amazon as well?

知道了。亞馬遜也有嗎？

Yes, Amazon as well. Amazon owns lots of warrants that have not been exercised.

是的，還有亞馬遜。亞馬遜擁有大量尚未行使的認股權證。

Got it. Just, Andy, just pivoting a little bit to the upstream. And I was wondering if I -- we kind of look at the electrolyzer side of the business -- and by the way, congratulations on the SK deal. I agree. I mean, looks like a fantastic deal.

知道了。只是，安迪，只是稍微轉向上游。我想知道我是否——我們有點關注電解槽業務——順便說一句，祝賀 SK 交易。我同意。我的意思是，看起來是一筆很棒的交易。

If you kind of look at the difference between reformation using methane versus that of green, one of the main differences is kind of the natural companies on the methane reformation would logically be kind of a nat gas or chemicals that have experience in the downstream complex plumbing systems.

如果你看看使用甲烷的重整與綠色重整之間的區別，主要區別之一是甲烷重整的自然公司在邏輯上是一種在下游複雜管道方面擁有經驗的天然氣或化學品系統。

I'm just wondering on the green side of things with windmill companies. Is it -- are the discussion -- I'm assuming the discussions, but how are those companies thinking about sort of the risk profile in terms of -- do you see more partnerships where pulling in, I guess, a downstream or midstream refiner, and you see that kind of wind market that starts to look more like driving through Trenton, New Jersey, for example, without the flaring. I'm just wondering how that shapes out, I guess, if you will.

我只是想知道風車公司的綠色環保方面。是不是——正在討論——我假設正在討論，但是這些公司是如何考慮風險狀況的——你是否看到更多的合作夥伴關係，我猜，是在吸引下游或中游煉油廠，你會看到這種風能市場開始看起來更像是開車穿過新澤西州的特倫頓，沒有耀斑。我想，如果你願意的話，我只是想知道結果如何。

Yes. So I think you're at a real -- ask an interesting question you had about the evolution of how hydrogen will be distributed, especially hydrogen that meets the quality and standards you need for fuel cell engines. And there is a slight difference in how one goes after about generating that hydrogen.

是的。所以我認為你正在問一個有趣的問題，關於氫如何分配的演變，特別是滿足燃料電池引擎所需的質量和標準的氫。人們追求產生氫氣的方式略有不同。

But initially, most hydrogen that's green will be transported in liquid form via trucks. And much like it is today. Ultimately, you're going to see more and more -- and I think we had an earlier call, which was talking about storage, you're going to see more and more on-site storage with hydrogen being generated. Some of that will be in caverns for very, very long-term storage and like natural gas has done today and like hydrogen has done in the refinery industry today.

但最初，大多數綠色氫氣將透過卡車以液體形式運輸。就像今天一樣。最終，你會看到越來越多的——我想我們之前有過一次電話會議，討論的是存儲，你會看到越來越多的現場存儲產生氫氣。其中一些將在洞穴中進行非常非常長期的儲存，就像今天的天然氣和今天煉油行業的氫氣一樣。

And finally, I think that maybe sooner -- when you see some work going on in Europe, you're going to see that -- and we've been already thinking about this, how to build plants close to pipelines so that you can start injecting hydrogen directly into the natural gas pipeline, initially a few percentage and gradually increasing. So all that's going into our thought process. Having grown up in Philadelphia and knowing what their smokestacks look like. I don't think we'll see anything like that.

最後，我認為也許會更早——當你看到歐洲正在進行一些工作時，你會看到這一點——我們已經在考慮這個問題，如何在靠近管道的地方建造工廠，以便你可以開始將氫氣直接注入天然氣管道，最初是幾個百分比，然後逐漸增加。所以這一切都進入了我們的思考過程。在費城長大，知道他們的煙囪是什麼樣子。我認為我們不會看到這樣的事情。

Good. One last question, I'll jump back in the queue. Just as a reminder, the split of the business, if we kind of look this year, the vast majority is still going to be material handling and selling the fuel cells into the -- as well as the equipment to support that market. Can you just give us a reminder of the '24 guide in terms of the breakdown of the business, please?

好的。最後一個問題，我會跳回隊列。提醒一下，如果我們看看今年，業務的拆分絕大多數仍將是物料搬運和向市場銷售燃料電池以及支援該市場的設備。您能給我們提一下《24小時指南》中業務細分的情況嗎？

Sure. And I think you hit an interesting point, Jed, that we expect somewhere in 2023, there's actually a transition where the other businesses are bigger than material handling. Then 2023 we expect that about $750 million will come from material handling between hydrogen and electrolyzers, we would expect to be in the $500 million range. And the rest will be involved in large-scale stationary and on-road vehicles.

當然。我認為你提到了一個有趣的觀點，傑德，我們預計在 2023 年的某個時候，實際上會出現一個轉變，其他業務的規模將大於物料搬運。到 2023 年，我們預計約 7.5 億美元將來自氫氣和電解槽之間的材料處理，我們預計在 5 億美元範圍內。其餘的將涉及大型固定和道路車輛。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question today is coming from Amit Dayal from H.C. Wainwright.

（操作員說明）今天我們的下一個問題來自 H.C. 的 Amit Dayal。溫賴特。

So Andy, you've secured pretty solid partnerships on the downstream side in terms of distribution with Brookfield, SK, Renault, et cetera. Do you need partnerships sort of on the upstream side with some of these renewable energy companies as well to just complete this value chain, if you will?

安迪，您在下游方面與布魯克菲爾德、SK、雷諾等公司的分銷方面建立了相當牢固的合作夥伴關係。如果您願意的話，您是否還需要在上游與一些再生能源公司建立合作夥伴關係來完成這個價值鏈？

Help me with that, Amit, because I may not understand completely. Because I think kind of Brookfield is providing us the renewable electricity. I'm probably missing some points.

幫助我，阿米特，因為我可能不完全理解。因為我認為布魯克菲爾德正在為我們提供再生電力。我可能遺漏了一些要點。

Okay. So do we need others like Brookfield as well or should some of those technical partnerships come to play for you guys?

好的。那麼，我們是否也需要像布魯克菲爾德這樣的其他公司，或者這些技術合作夥伴中的一些是否應該為你們發揮作用？

I think you'll see more of those partners. So the answer to your question is there will be additional renewable partners even here in the United States. And I think you'll probably see announcements in the foreseeable future.

我想您會看到更多這樣的合作夥伴。因此，你的問題的答案是，即使在美國，也會有更多的再生能源合作夥伴。我認為您可能會在可預見的將來看到公告。

And then just moving on to the 4Q '20 results, maybe this could be for Paul. It looks like there could be between $43 million to $44 million in onetime costs in the fourth quarter. And within this, you talk about some hydrogen supplier issues. If you could just provide us any color on what this is and whether these are onetime costs that are out of the way, or is there any other onetime costs that may come into play in the next few quarters?

然後繼續看 20 年第四季的結果，也許這可能適合保羅。看起來第四季的一次性成本可能在 4,300 萬至 4,400 萬美元之間。其中，您談到了一些氫氣供應商的問題。您能否向我們提供任何關於這是什麼的信息，以及這些是否是不可行的一次性成本，或者是否有任何其他一次性成本可能在未來幾個季度發揮作用？

Sure, Amit. Yes, I think there's a number of things going on. I would say we had a force majeure issue close to year-end with one of the hydrogen producers at one of the facilities that we worked through. Whenever those events happen, there's some cost that you incur to kind of navigate through it. It doesn't happen frequently. So I would agree with your comment there. Like a lot of companies, even though we've had great success and growing the business and new platforms and doing a lot of things, there are some challenges of COVID in terms of navigating through that from operational side, and we saw some of those events.

當然，阿米特。是的，我認為有很多事情正在發生。我想說的是，臨近年底，我們與我們工作過的其中一個設施的氫氣生產商發生了不可抗力問題。每當這些事件發生時，您都會產生一些成本來應對它。這種情況並不常發生。所以我同意你的評論。與許多公司一樣，儘管我們取得了巨大的成功，發展了業務和新平台並做了很多事情，但從營運方面來看，新冠疫情仍面臨一些挑戰，我們看到了其中的一些挑戰事件。

But then the other thing that's important to note is there was a lot of strategic joint ventures and new business development activities announced in the last couple of months. And obviously, we've been working extensively on that in fourth quarter to prepare for those and some of those were announced early in January as an example. So there's a lot of investment to accommodate that.

但另一件值得注意的事情是，過去幾個月宣布了許多策略合資企業和新業務開發活動。顯然，我們在第四季度進行了廣泛的工作，為這些做好準備，其中一些是在一月初宣布的。因此需要大量投資來適應這一點。

So those are the big themes. And yes, I would say we, obviously, don't do those every quarter, and I don't expect that to happen routinely.

這些都是大主題。是的，我想說，顯然我們不會每個季度都這樣做，而且我不希望這種情況經常發生。

Understood. And then just from a margin perspective, going into, say, '22, '23 time frame, as per Andy's comments, if material handling is going to start becoming a smaller portion of revenues, what kind of impact on the margins should we see from this shift in revenue mix?

明白了。然後，從利潤的角度來看，按照安迪的評論，進入「22」、「23」的時間範圍，如果物料搬運將開始佔收入的一小部分，我們應該看到對利潤產生什麼樣的影響收入結構的轉變會帶來什麼影響？

Paul, do you want to take that?

保羅，你想接受這個嗎？

One thing is proven. Yes, can you hear me?

一件事已經得到證實。是的，你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

One thing we've proven is scale matters. And so -- and because, as Andy said, I think in the past, we're actually using a lot of the core technologies and resources that we have to go into these other markets. It's not like they're completely new business channels that take their own resources and own technologies and completely independent. So there's a lot of leverage capability. And our forecast and plans are to keep moving north.

我們已經證明的一件事是規模很重要。所以 - 因為，正如安迪所說，我認為在過去，我們實際上使用了許多我們必須進入這些其他市場的核心技術和資源。它們並不是完全獨立的全新業務管道，擁有自己的資源和技術。所以有很大的槓桿能力。我們的預測和計劃是繼續向北移動。

So I think you're going to see a progression over the course of this year for the full year should be in the high teens. And then even in the year, we may be approaching 20% or north on a run rate basis. And I think you're going to see that continue on into 2022. And all of these businesses will be accretive holistically as we continue to grow and scale from there.

因此，我認為今年全年的進展應該在十幾歲左右。即使在今年，我們的運行率也可能接近 20% 或更高。我認為這種情況會持續到 2022 年。隨著我們從那時起繼續發展和擴大規模，所有這些業務都將整體增值。

Our next question is coming from Tristan Richardson from Truist Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Tristan Richardson。

Just a question on the data side. I think on the update call, you talked about a potential data customer this year. Do you still see that as the case? And then can you talk about scale here, either with the opportunity set with this customer? Is it possible you could see a data customer elevate to the level of a pedestal customer? Or is this kind of more of an early days pilot type of deployment for now?

只是數據方面的問題。我想在更新電話會議上，您談到了今年的潛在數據客戶。現在您還這麼認為嗎？然後您能在這裡談談規模嗎？無論是與該客戶一起設置的機會嗎？您是否有可能看到數據客戶提升到基礎客戶的水平？或者目前這種部署更多的是早期試點類型？

Good question, Tristan. So we'll be doing our first large-scale stationary backup deployment with one of the largest data center customers in May. And that shipment, the work on that shipment is happening as we speak and that customer could be one of our largest pedestal customers. And there are plans to have this business can roll out in 2022, 2023 and 2024 as that customer has come to the conclusion that fuel cells and hydrogen over the next few years will be very, very cost-competitive with large-scale on-site diesel generation. On top of that, you have additional value of the sustainability aspects of green hydrogen, coupled with the fact that in a lot of these large data centers, noise pollution is a big, big issue.

好問題，特里斯坦。因此，我們將在五月與最大的資料中心客戶之一進行首次大規模固定備份部署。就在我們說話的時候，這批貨物的工作正在進行中，該客戶可能是我們最大的固定客戶之一。計劃在 2022 年、2023 年和 2024 年推出這項業務，因為該客戶得出的結論是，未來幾年燃料電池和氫氣與大規模現場部署相比將具有非常非常高的成本競爭力柴油發電。最重要的是，綠色氫的可持續性方面具有額外的價值，再加上許多大型資料中心的噪音污染是一個很大的問題。

That's helpful. And then just going back to the margin question. I think talking about accelerating margins through the year, kind of exiting with a 2-handle instead of a team-handle thinking. Is this purely a function of scale? Or I think we thought of fuel supply as being margin-accretive at some point on the time line. Curious if that is a driver or the fuel supply potential is more out into '22 and beyond.

這很有幫助。然後回到保證金問題。我認為談論今年的利潤率加速成長，有點是以 2 把手而非團隊把手的思維退出。這純粹是規模的函數嗎？或者我認為我們認為燃料供應在時間線上的某個時刻可以增加利潤。好奇這是否是一名駕駛員，或者燃料供應潛力是否會持續到 22 年及以後。

I'll give you my quick answer, and then I'll hand it off to Paul. It won't be until late 2022 that the hydrogen margin will significantly increase until we have our sites, bigger sites online. There will be some improvements in this year. We're expanding our own site in Tennessee, plus we're beginning to take over about 15 to 20 of our traditional sites with our plan in Tennessee, which will help our margins, but the real margin growth will happen out in 2023.

我會快速回答你，然後將其交給保羅。直到 2022 年底，氫利潤率才會顯著增加，直到我們擁有我們的網站，更大的線上網站。今年會有一些改進。我們正在擴大我們在田納西州的網站，此外，我們開始根據田納西州的計劃接管大約 15 到 20 個傳統網站，這將有助於我們的利潤率，但真正的利潤率增長將在 2023 年發生。

Paul, you may -- for the hydrogen business. Paul, you may want to comment on that?

保羅，你可以－－為了氫業務。保羅，你想對此發表評論嗎？

Yes. I think that's right, Andy. And across all the businesses, it's the similar themes that we've shared in the past. I mean there's overhead leverage. There's supply chain leverage. There's design enhancements going on. There's vertical integration opportunities that we've made that we're starting to leverage and scale.

是的。我認為這是對的，安迪。在所有業務中，我們過去都分享過類似的主題。我的意思是存在間接槓桿作用。有供應鏈槓桿。設計方面正在進行改進。我們已經開始利用和擴展垂直整合機會。

So those themes are paying dividends at all our businesses from a margin enhancement and even see some of those themes, even in our current fuel business as we grow at scale. But from -- so we're going to get that margin appreciation or accretion largely from those core themes. But as Andy said, in terms of a significant contribution from the fuel side, it will be middle of '22 on into '23 as that starts to pay off.

因此，這些主題正在透過利潤率的提高為我們所有業務帶來紅利，甚至在我們當前的燃料業務中，隨著我們規模的增長，甚至可以看到其中的一些主題。但是，我們將主要從這些核心主題中獲得利潤增值或增值。但正如安迪所說，就燃料方面的重大貢獻而言，將在 22 世紀中期到 23 世紀開始產生回報。

That's really helpful. And then one -- just last one, if I could. I think on the update call, you mentioned the auto industry with respect to materials handling may actually be more intensive on a unit basis per site. Is that still the case? Is the -- I think 500 to 700 units per site is still a good high-level way to think about the opportunity? And is it -- the 4 sites is still kind of the near-term potential for your fourth pedestal customer?

這真的很有幫助。然後是最後一首，如果可以的話。我認為在更新電話會議上，您提到汽車行業在材料處理方面實際上可能在每個站點的單位基礎上更加密集。現在還是這樣嗎？我認為每個站點 500 到 700 個單位仍然是思考機會的良好高層方式嗎？對於您的第四個基礎客戶來說，這 4 個網站仍然具有近期潛力嗎？

So I think that's a -- I think in general, obviously, different sites can be different size, Tristan, but I'll give you an example, our BMW facility in Spartanburg has well over 700 units. Some of them may not immediately be 700 fuel cells or either can be -- because the way auto factories are structured, they can be some gradual deployments in some of those facilities. But that's not a bad number to be thinking about. And I think I would add on top of that, I think there is an opportunity with the new pedestal customer that the expansion could go rep quicker.

所以我認為這是 - 我認為一般來說，顯然，不同的地點可能有不同的規模，特里斯坦，但我給你舉個例子，我們在斯巴達堡的寶馬工廠擁有超過 700 輛汽車。其中一些可能不會立即成為 700 個燃料電池，或者都可以——因為汽車工廠的結構方式，它們可能會在其中一些設施中逐步部署。但這並不是一個值得考慮的壞數字。我想我還要補充一點，我認為新的基礎客戶有機會實現更快的擴張。

Our next question is coming from Moses Sutton from Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的摩西·薩頓。

In the 2024 guidance, the $1.7 billion, how -- can you break out specifically third-party hydrogen? I know you group them together with electrolyzers. And how do you expect to sort of see the long-term offtake on those contracts. As you complete the plants, you'll have some rolling contracts or do you expect to have more spot price exposure?

在2024年的指導中，17億美元，如何－你能專門突破第三方氫嗎？我知道您將它們與電解槽組合在一起。您預計如何看待這些合約的長期承購？當您完成工廠時，您將獲得一些滾動合同，或者您是否期望獲得更多現貨價格敞口？

So there's actually a reason I was a -- one of the arms we think about all the time is there's opportunities in the electrolyzer space and why I put them kind of together where we're working through whether we sell equipment or whether we sell green hydrogen.

所以實際上我是有原因的——我們一直在考慮的一個領域是電解槽領域存在機會，以及為什麼我將它們放在一起，我們正在努力解決我們是否銷售設備或是否銷售綠色產品的問題。氫。

So that's why I'm a little bit hesitant to just pull it all out today. I'm taking one deal specifically that could be huge, and it could go either way. And it could be a really great offtake for our green hydrogen.

所以這就是為什麼我今天有點猶豫要不要把它全部拿出來。我正在接受一項可能規模巨大的交易，而且無論哪種方式都可能發生。對於我們的綠氫來說，這可能是個非常好的選擇。

So that's kind of -- Moses, we've been trying to work these deals going both ways with people because of our capabilities. When you think about the spot price, and I think I'm going to give both an input and output side answer.

所以，摩西，我們一直在努力與人們達成這些交易，因為我們有能力。當你考慮現貨價格時，我想我將同時給出輸入和輸出方面的答案。

On the input side, Sanjay has really done an incredible job in the negotiation of these contracts to really have a mixture of how one thinks about grid power, how one thinks about for recs for renewable content, how one thinks about any third parties that can help bridge any power gap. So we have been negotiating set price contracts on the input side.

在輸入方面，桑傑在這些合約的談判中確實做了一項令人難以置信的工作，真正融合了人們如何看待電網電力、如何看待可再生內容的建議、如何看待任何可以提供幫助的第三方。幫助彌合任何權力差距。所以我們一直在就投入方面的定價合約進行談判。

On the output side, some of our customers, i.e., the big material handling customers, it will be a set price, but we also have a set price of electricity. So it's very, very well controlled. The spot market is probably a real opportunity for us to sell and have significant margin enhancement upside when we look at some of the spot pricing going on.

在輸出方面，我們的一些客戶，即大型物料搬運客戶，這將是一個固定的價格，但我們也有一個固定的電力價格。所以它控制得非常非常好。當我們觀察一些正在進行的現貨定價時，現貨市場可能是我們銷售的真正機會，並且具有顯著的利潤提升空間。

Our main concern, though, is making sure we provide customers, who are especially commercial customers, green hydrogen that's cost-competitive with grey hydrogen, cost-competitive with diesel. So that they accelerate the deployment of their fleet, be it material handling, be it on-road vehicles, be it backup power generation by using green hydrogen at a price they can count on.

不過，我們主要關心的是確保我們為客戶（尤其是商業客戶）提供與灰氫和柴油相比具有成本競爭力的綠氫。這樣他們就可以加速車隊的部署，無論是物料搬運、道路車輛、還是以他們可以信賴的價格使用綠氫進行備用發電。

That's very helpful. And Paul and Andy, you both discussed margin expansion. I don't see adjusted EBITDA guidance or reconciliation in the investor letter. Is the metric no longer going to be provided? What would a general range look like for '21 and even an update on the 2024 from the $1.7 billion?

這非常有幫助。保羅和安迪，你們都討論了利潤擴張。我在投資者信函中沒有看到調整後的 EBITDA 指導或調節表。不再提供指標嗎？ 21 年的整體範圍會是什麼樣子，甚至 2024 年的更新值是 17 億美元？

So I think during the call, for '21, and Paul, I'm going to let you jump in after I did. I mean we're targeting -- revenue and gross billings almost now are equal, Moses, with the acceleration of the warrants. So we're looking at $475 million revenue at margins in the high teens for gross margins, and expense is about 30% higher than the run rate of last year.

所以我想在 21 年的電話會議中，保羅，我會讓你在我發言之後加入。我的意思是，隨著認股權證的加速，我們的目標是——收入和總帳單現在幾乎相等，摩西。因此，我們預計收入為 4.75 億美元，毛利率為十多歲左右，而費用比去年的運行率高出約 30%。

Paul, would you like to add to that.

保羅，你想補充一下嗎？

Got it. Okay. And last one for me. On the Walmart GenDrive, I noticed in the letter, you quote 9,500 or above 9,500 in operation. I think you've noted like 10,000 or more operational as recent as last May. Were any ticking out of operations? Or am I not looking at an apples-to-apples metric there?

知道了。好的。最後一張給我。在沃爾瑪GenDrive上，我在信中註意到，你們在運行中報價9,500或9,500以上。我想您已經注意到，截至去年 5 月，大約有 10,000 個或更多正在運行。是否有任何停止營運的情況？還是我沒有考慮同類指標？

I can tell you, I've deployed more units. So I'll say this. We're going to -- so the answer is a number of units that Walmart increased in this year, as we've noted, were actually beginning to move into other applications in their Internet centers. There are net distribution centers where we have, I think, 3 sites already moving and more coming.

我可以告訴你，我已經部署了更多的部隊。所以我會這麼說。我們將——所以答案是，正如我們所指出的，沃爾瑪今年增加的一些單位實際上開始轉移到其互聯網中心的其他應用程式。我認為我們有一些網路配送中心，其中 3 個站點已經搬遷，還有更多站點即將搬遷。

So Moses, we'll be happy to help you reconcile that. But I can tell you, we've sold more units, and the business is growing.

摩西，我們很樂意幫助您解決這個問題。但我可以告訴你，我們已經賣出了更多的產品，而且業務正在成長。

Your next question is coming from Paul Coster from JPMorgan.

您的下一個問題來自摩根大通的保羅·科斯特。

So first off, I noticed in the press release that the -- you're looking to deploy about $125 million of expense in New York state to build out the gigafactory, which I'm sure is very welcome there. That sounds high relative to what my prior understanding was for the cost of the gigafactory at around about $45 million, $50 million. Am I just misreading that?

首先，我在新聞稿中註意到，你們打算在紐約州投入約 1.25 億美元的費用來建造超級工廠，我相信這在那裡很受歡迎。相對於我之前對超級工廠成本約 4500 萬至 5000 萬美元的了解，這個數字聽起來很高。我只是誤讀了嗎？

I think part of that -- Paul, and I'll let you add in. I think part of that's expense dollars over the coming years as far as personnel.

我認為其中一部分——保羅，我會讓你補充一下。我認為其中一部分是未來幾年的人員費用。

Should we though, assume that the gigafactory is CapEx only are still in that $50 million range as you start to drop them in?

不過，我們是否應該假設超級工廠的資本支出在您開始投入時仍處於 5000 萬美元的範圍內？

It's $50 million. That's right, Paul.

這是5000萬美元。沒錯，保羅。

Okay. Got you. And it seems quite a fairly modest CapEx, which is great, except that it also suggests that the barriers to entry for others are fairly low. Now obviously, there's IP and know-how of all kinds involved. But how do you respond to that thought, Andy?

好的。明白你了。這似乎是一個相當適度的資本支出，這很好，但它也表明其他人的進入門檻相當低。顯然，這涉及到各種智慧財產權和專有技術。但安迪，你對這個想法有何反應？

It's actually a very -- things you may not think about is electrical generation required for a facility. And I can tell you, we -- first, we went into a building and selected a building because it was an old Alstom switchgear factory. That has incredible levels of power provided into the building that allows us to build large-scale electrolyzer systems to test all these stack. I think future buildings we won't be as lucky. And that I think you'll probably see costs being 25%, 30% higher.

實際上，您可能沒有想到設施所需的發電。我可以告訴你，我們——首先，我們進入一棟建築並選擇了一棟建築，因為它是一家老阿爾斯通開關設備工廠。這為建築物提供了令人難以置信的電力水平，使我們能夠建造大型電解槽系統來測試所有這些堆疊。我認為未來的建築我們不會那麼幸運。我認為您可能會看到成本增加 25%、30%。

What about the argument that it's not a very high barrier to entry for others with competence in their technology to get into the gigafactory business?

對於其他擁有技術能力的人來說，進入超級工廠業務並不是一個很高的門檻，這種說法又如何呢？

Well, I would step back and say that first, you have to have customers. Actually, I should start by saying, Paul, first, you have to have the technology. And we have folks who have actually been working on MEA development for over 30 years when you look at their background even before Plug.

好吧，我退後一步說，首先，你必須擁有客戶。實際上，我應該先說，保羅，首先，你必須擁有技術。我們有些人實際上已經從事 MEA 開發 30 多年了，如果你看看他們的背景，甚至在 Plug 之前就知道了。

I think then you have to take a step back and have people who've been developing fuel cell stacks and making enhancements for 25 years and have thought through the manufacturing process and roll-to-roll process to stamping in place. I look at -- there's both the -- as you mentioned, IP. There's also the issue of what I always kind of refer to as travel knowledge, which I think people always underestimate. I think there is the issue of having the capital wherewithal to make the right investments to build out the factory at the right place. I mean when you look at the facility itself, we've been able to get incredibly low rates for electricity that to support this effort.

我認為，那麼你必須退一步，讓那些在燃料電池堆開發和改進方面擁有 25 年經驗的人，對製造工藝和卷對卷工藝進行深思熟慮，直到沖壓到位。我看看——正如你所提到的，智慧財產權。還有一個問題，我總是稱之為旅行知識，我認為人們總是低估它。我認為存在的問題是是否有足夠的資金進行正確的投資，在正確的地點建造工廠。我的意思是，當你看看設施本身時，我們已經能夠獲得令人難以置信的低電價來支持這項工作。

And the fourth item, I think that -- I think people often have an issue with is you've got to have the demand. And I'm already at Plug Power, thinking about, as you could see, building the next gigafactory in Korea to really help the build-out.

第四點，我認為人們經常有一個問題，那就是你必須有需求。正如你所看到的，我已經在 Plug Power 考慮在韓國建造下一個超級工廠，以真正幫助擴建。

We've reached end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Andy for any further or closing comments.

我們的問答環節已經結束。我想將發言權交還給安迪，以徵求進一步或結束評論的意見。

Well, thank you, Kevin, and thank you, everyone, for joining the call today. Looking forward to speaking with everyone in our first quarter update call. So thanks again, and talk soon. Bye now.

好的，謝謝你，凱文，也謝謝大家今天加入電話會議。期待在我們的第一季更新電話會議中與大家交談。再次感謝，稍後再談。再見了。

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路廣播到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。