摩根士丹利 (MS) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Welcome to Morgan Stanley's second-quarter 2024 earnings call. On behalf of Morgan Stanley, I will begin the call with the following information and disclaimers. This call is being recorded. During today's presentation, we will refer to our earnings release and financial supplement, copies of which are available at morganstanley.com.

早安.歡迎參加摩根士丹利 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。我將代表摩根士丹利在電話會議開始時提供以下資訊和免責聲明。此通話正在錄音。在今天的演示中，我們將參考我們的收益發布和財務補充資料，其副本可在 morganstanley.com 上取得。

Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially. Morgan Stanley does not undertake to update the forward-looking statements in this discussion. Please refer to our notices regarding forward-looking statements and non-GAAP measures that appear in the earnings release.

今天的演示可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異。摩根士丹利不承諾更新本次討論中的前瞻性陳述。請參閱我們關於收益發布中出現的前瞻性陳述和非公認會計原則措施的通知。

This presentation may not be duplicated or reproduced without our consent.

未經我們同意，不得複製或複製本簡報。

I will now turn the call over to Chief Executive Officer, Ted Pick.

我現在將把電話轉給執行長泰德·皮克。

Good morning and thank you for joining us. The firm generated $15 billion in revenue, $1.82 in EPS, and a 17.5% return on tangible in the second quarter. Solid earnings and demonstration of operating leverage completes a strong first half of 2024. $30 billion in revenue, $6 billion in earnings, and an 18.6% return on capital.

早安，感謝您加入我們。該公司第二季營收 150 億美元，每股收益 1.82 美元，有形回報率為 17.5%。穩健的獲利和營運槓桿的展示為 2024 年上半年帶來了強勁表現。

In institutional securities, we're beginning to see the benefits from our continued focus on our world-class investment banking franchise, with revenues up 50% year over year, including a 70% increase year over year in fixed income underwriting.

在機構證券方面，我們開始看到我們繼續專注於世界一流的投資銀行業務所帶來的好處，營收年增 50%，其中固定收益承銷業務年增 70%。

In institutional equities, we are back with a $3 billion quarter. In wealth, we posted margins of 27%. And across wealth and investment management, we've now grown total client assets to $7.2 trillion, on our road to $10 trillion plus. Together, we delivered strong operating leverage.

在機構股票方面，我們以 30 億美元的季度營收回歸。在財富方面，我們的利潤率為 27%。在財富和投資管理領域，我們的客戶總資產現已增至 7.2 兆美元，並有望進一步突破 10 兆美元。我們共同提供了強大的營運槓桿。

Further, on the back of the annual stress test results, we announced that we will increase the dividend by $0.075 cents for the third year in a row to $0.925 cents, reflecting the growth of our durable earnings over time.

此外，在年度壓力測試結果的支持下，我們宣布將連續第三年將股息增加 0.075 美分，達到 0.925 美分，反映出我們的持久收益隨著時間的推移而增長。

During the quarter, we built $1.5 billion of capital, and at quarter end, our CET1 ratio, is 15.2%, 170 basis points above the forward requirement. Our capital position provides us the flexibility to continue to support dividend growth, support our clients, and buy the stock back opportunistically.

本季度，我們建立了 15 億美元的資本，到季度末，我們的 CET1 比率為 15.2%，比遠期要求高出 170 個基點。我們的資本狀況使我們能夠靈活地繼續支持股息成長、支持我們的客戶並適時回購股票。

The quarter also showed continued balance in both top line and profitability across the major segments. Wealth and institutional securities, produced $6.8 billion and $7 billion in revenue, respectively, with earnings also roughly split between our institutional businesses and wealth and investment management. Our businesses are working closely together to maximize adjacent opportunities across the integrated firm.

該季度各主要細分市場的營收和獲利能力也持續保持平衡。財富和機構證券分別產生了 68 億美元和 70 億美元的收入，收入也大致分配給我們的機構業務以及財富和投資管理。我們的業務部門正在緊密合作，以最大限度地利用整個綜合公司的相鄰機會。

Across the investment bank, navigating changes in the cycle means being deliberate around risk management and given geopolitical uncertainty where we spend our time, to deliver clients solutions and to capture share.

在整個投資銀行中，應對週期變化意味著要深思熟慮風險管理，並考慮到地緣政治的不確定性，我們需要花時間為客戶提供解決方案並獲取份額。

In wealth management, we continue to focus on aggregating assets and delivering strong advice. In investment management, we are investing in secular growth areas, including customization and real assets. Year to date, annualized growth in net new assets and wealth management is over 5%, with another strong quarter of over $25 billion in fee-based flows.

在財富管理方面，我們繼續專注於聚合資產並提供強有力的建議。在投資管理方面，我們投資於長期成長領域，包括客製化和實體資產。年初至今，淨新資產和財富管理的年化成長率超過 5%，收費流量又一個強勁的季度超過 250 億美元。

Strong fee-based flows support daily revenue, which on average continues to be about $100 million each day this year throughout and show the stability and continued growth of the wealth franchise. We are well navigating the continued uncertainty around forward rate path, geopolitics, and now the US political cycle, and expect those to be the themes for the balance of the year.

強勁的收費流量支撐著每日收入，今年全年平均每日收入持續在 1 億美元左右，顯示了財富專營權的穩定性和持續增長。我們正在很好地應對圍繞遠期利率路徑、地緣政治以及現在的美國政治週期的持續不確定性，並預計這些將成為今年剩餘時間的主題。

We remain focused on our best-in-class talent and building out best-in-class infrastructure to support ongoing growth across wealth and investment management and institutional securities.

我們仍然專注於一流的人才並建立一流的基礎設施，以支持財富和投資管理以及機構證券的持續成長。

I wanted to reiterate our strategy, which is clear, to advise individuals and institutions around the world in raising, managing, and allocating capital. World-class execution demands that we deliver strong earnings and returns through the cycle, that we do so while maintaining robust capital levels, and that we deliver on a durable growth narrative across the segments. And that Morgan Stanley executes on this strategy in a first-class way, blue. That's it in a nutshell.

我想重申我們的明確策略，即為世界各地的個人和機構提供籌集、管理和分配資本的建議。世界級的執行力要求我們在整個週期中實現強勁的獲利和回報，同時保持強勁的資本水平，並在各個細分市場中實現持久的成長。摩根士丹利以一流的方式執行這項策略，藍色。簡而言之就是這樣。

And finally, in reflecting on this weekend's assassination attempt, we share in the hope that in the months to come, we will, as Americans, find ways to unify and preserve our better selves.

最後，在反思本週末的暗殺企圖時，我們都希望在未來的幾個月裡，身為美國人，我們能夠找到團結和維護更好的自我的方法。

With that, Sharon will now take us through the quarter in greater detail. Thank you.

接下來，沙龍將帶我們更詳細地了解本季。謝謝。

Thank you, and good morning. In the second quarter, the firm produced revenues of $15 billion. Our EPS was $1.82, and our ROTCE was 17.5%. Results highlight the power and scale of our integrated firm. The resilience of the US economy and a more stable near-term outlook on rates supported conviction amongst clients.

謝謝你，早安。第二季度，該公司營收達 150 億美元。我們的 EPS 為 1.82 美元，ROTCE 為 17.5%。結果凸顯了我們綜合公司的實力和規模。美國經濟的韌性和更穩定的近期利率前景支撐了客戶的信念。

Institutional securities drove performance, led by strength in equity and a pickup in investment banking. Wealth management also delivered on our established strategy, reporting record durable asset management fees and strong fee-based flows. Together, improved confidence and higher client engagement, along with our focus on prioritizing investments, yielded operating leverage and profitability.

在股票走強和投資銀行業務回升的帶動下，機構證券推動了業績。財富管理也落實了我們既定的策略，報告了創紀錄的持久資產管理費用和強勁的收費流量。總之，信心的提高和客戶參與度的提高，加上我們對投資優先順序的關注，產生了營運槓桿和獲利能力。

The firm's year-to-date efficiency ratio was 72%, benefiting from scale and reductions in our expense base. Year-to-date expenses benefited from lower litigation expenses, the absence of back-office integration-related costs and severance, as well as our dedicated effort to prioritize our current spend.

該公司年初至今的效率率為 72%，受惠於我們的規模擴大和費用基礎的減少。年初至今的支出得益於訴訟費用的降低、後台整合相關成本和遣散費的減少，以及我們優先考慮當前支出所付出的努力。

On prioritization, we remain committed to client and asset growth, technology, and targeted investments to ensure robust infrastructure that supports growth and addresses ongoing regulatory expectations.

在優先順序方面，我們仍然致力於客戶和資產成長、技術和有針對性的投資，以確保支援成長並滿足持續監管期望的強大基礎設施。

Now to the businesses. Institutional securities revenues of $7 billion increased 23% versus last year, capturing the strength of the integrated investment bank across US and international markets. Higher activity in Asia contributed to results. Strong performance in institutional equity, as well as debt underwriting, demonstrate the breadth of our client franchise. In our markets business, opportunities unfolded on the back of global political events and macroeconomic data.

現在到企業。機構證券收入為 70 億美元，比去年增長 23%，反映了美國和國際市場綜合投資銀行的實力。亞洲的較高活動對業績做出了貢獻。機構股權和債務承銷方面的強勁表現證明了我們客戶業務的廣泛性。在我們的市場業務中，全球政治事件和宏觀經濟數據帶來了機會。

Investment banking revenues were $1.6 billion. The 51% increase from the prior year was broad based. We continue to invest in investment banking across talent and lending, broadening and deepening our global coverage footprint in key sectors, including financials, healthcare, technology, and industrials. These investments are beginning to have an impact as capital markets improve and activity picks up.

投資銀行業務收入為 16 億美元。與上一年相比 51% 的增長是廣泛的。我們持續投資人才和貸款領域的投資銀行業務，擴大和深化我們在金融、醫療保健、科技和工業等關鍵領域的全球覆蓋範圍。隨著資本市場的改善和經濟活動的增加，這些投資開始產生影響。

Advisory revenues were $592 million, reflecting an increase in our completed M&A activity versus the prior year. The pre-announced M&A backlog continues to build and suggests diversification across sectors. Equity underwriting revenues of $352 million improved versus the prior year, driven by increases across most products, but remained below historical averages.

諮詢收入為 5.92 億美元，反映出我們已完成的併購活動較前一年增加。預先宣布的併購積壓持續增加，顯示跨產業的多元化。受大多數產品成長的推動，股票承銷收入較上年增加 3.52 億美元，但仍低於歷史平均水準。

From a geographical perspective, we brought a number of transactions to market in Europe and Asia, demonstrating the importance of having a strong global market footprint. Fixed income underwriting revenues were $675 million, well above five-year historical averages. Results reflect a meaningful increase in non-investment-grade loan and bond issuance, as tighter spreads and strong CLO issuance provided opportunities for refinancing.

從地理角度來看，我們在歐洲和亞洲市場進行了多項交易，證明了擁有強大的全球市場足跡的重要性。固定收益承保收入為 6.75 億美元，遠高於五年歷史平均。業績反映出非投資等級貸款和債券發行量顯著增加，因為利差收窄和 CLO 發行量強勁為再融資提供了機會。

The investment banking backdrop continues to improve, led by the US. The advisory and underwriting pipelines are healthy across regions and sectors. Inflation data has continued to moderate, which has helped stabilize front-end rates and support boardroom confidence and sponsor re-engagement.

以美國為首的投資銀行業環境持續改善。各地區和行業的諮詢和承保管道均保持健康。通膨數據持續溫和，這有助於穩定前端利率並支持董事會信心和贊助商重新參與。

As buyers and sellers make progress to close the valuation gap, we expect that we are still in the early innings of an investment banking rebound. Subject to changes in rate pass expectations and geopolitical developments, our integrated investment bank is well-positioned to service our clients.

隨著買家和賣家在縮小估值差距方面取得進展，我們預計我們仍處於投資銀行業反彈的早期階段。受利率透過預期和地緣政治發展變化的影響，我們的綜合投資銀行處於有利地位，可以為客戶提供服務。

Turning to equity. We continue to be a global leader in this business. Equity revenues of over $3 billion, up 18% compared to last year, reflect strong results across business and regions. Higher client engagement, dynamic risk management, and strength in Asia all contributed to performance.

轉向股權。我們仍然是該行業的全球領導者。股權收入超過 30 億美元，比去年增長 18%，反映了各業務和地區的強勁業績。更高的客戶參與度、動態風險管理以及在亞洲的實力都對業績做出了貢獻。

Prime brokerage revenues were strong and increased from the prior year, as client balances reached new peaks. Regionally, we witnessed higher client activity in Asia and seasonal patterns in Europe. Cash results increased versus last year, reflecting higher volumes across regions.

隨著客戶餘額達到新的峰值，大宗經紀業務收入強勁並較上年有所成長。從地區來看，我們看到亞洲的客戶活動增加，歐洲的季節性模式增加。現金業績較去年增加，反映出各地區的交易量增加。

Derivative results were up versus last year's second quarter, as client activity was higher, and the business navigated the market environment well. Further, the business benefited from corporate activity on the back of convertible issuances, additional evidence of the integrated firm at work.

由於客戶活動增加且業務很好地適應了市場環境，衍生性商品業績較去年第二季有所上升。此外，該業務還受益於可轉換發行背後的企業活動，這是綜合公司運作的額外證據。

Fixed income revenues of $2 billion increased year over year. Macro performance was up versus the prior year. Despite lower realized volatility, clients were engaged around elections and political events in the quarter. Micro results improved year over year, driven by the growth of our more durable revenues as we continue to support our clients with financing solutions. Solid results in commodities were in line with the prior year.

固定收益收入較去年同期成長20億美元。宏觀表現較上年上升。儘管實際波動性較低，但客戶仍參與本季的選舉和政治事件。隨著我們繼續為客戶提供融資解決方案支持，我們更持久的收入成長推動了微觀績效逐年改善。大宗商品的穩健業績與上年持平。

Turning to ISG lending and provisions. In the quarter, ISG provisions were $54 million, driven by certain individual commercial real estate loans. Net charge-offs were $48 million, primarily related to two commercial real estate loans for which we had previously already taken provisions.

轉向 ISG 貸款和準備金。本季度，在某些個人商業房地產貸款的推動下，ISG 撥備金額為 5,400 萬美元。淨沖銷額為 4,800 萬美元，主要與我們先前已提列撥備的兩筆商業房地產貸款有關。

Turning to wealth management. Wealth management delivered strong results, generating revenues of $6.8 billion, with record asset management fees. Our PBT margin continued to make progress towards our goal, demonstrating our ability to grow and generate operating leverage through the cycle. We are delivering on our differentiated, scaled, multi-channel asset gathering strategy. Wealth management client assets reached $5.7 trillion.

轉向財富管理。財富管理績效強勁，營收達 68 億美元，資產管理費用創歷史新高。我們的稅前利潤率繼續朝著我們的目標取得進展，這證明了我們在整個週期中成長和產生營運槓桿的能力。我們正在實施差異化、規模化、多通路的資產聚集策略。理財客戶資產達5.7兆美元。

Moving to our business metrics in the second quarter. Pre-tax profits was $1.8 billion, up year over year, with a reported margin of 26.8%. DCP negatively impacted our margin by approximately 100 basis points. The margin demonstrates the inherent operating leverage of our asset gathering strategy. We are improving the efficiency with which we run our business.

轉向我們第二季的業務指標。稅前利潤為 18 億美元，年成長，報告利潤率為 26.8%。 DCP 對我們的利潤率產生了約 100 個基點的負面影響。利潤率體​​現了我們資產收集策略的固有營運槓桿。我們正在提高業務營運的效率。

Asset management revenues of $4 billion were up 16%. That's more than $500 million in fees versus the prior year. That's driven by higher average asset levels and the impact of cumulative positive fee-based flows.

資產管理收入達 40 億美元，成長 16%。與前一年相比，這筆費用增加了 5 億多美元。這是由較高的平均資產水準和累積的正收費流量的影響所推動的。

In the quarter, fee-based flows of $26 billion were strong, marking the seventh consecutive quarter of over $20 billion, bringing the year-to-date fee-based flows to $52 billion. We are seeing a steady migration of assets from advisor-led brokerage accounts to fee-based accounts, evidence that investments in our client acquisition funnel are paying off.

本季度，收費流量達到 260 億美元，強勁，連續第七個季度超過 200 億美元，使年初至今的收費流量達到 520 億美元。我們看到資產從顧問主導的經紀帳戶穩步遷移到收費帳戶，這證明我們在客戶獲取管道上的投資正在獲得回報。

Fee-based assets now stand at $2 trillion. Net new assets were $36 billion, reflecting headwinds from seasonal tax payments. Year-to-date net new assets are $131 billion, representing 5% annualized growth of beginning period assets.

收費資產目前為 2 兆美元。淨新資產為 360 億美元，反映了季節性納稅帶來的不利因素。年初至今淨新資產為 1,310 億美元，較年初資產年化成長 5%。

Net flows will be lumpy in any given period of time and impacted by both the macroeconomic environment and business-specific factors.

在任何特定時期內，淨流量都會波動，並受到宏觀經濟環境和特定業務因素的影響。

We believe both tax-related outflows and increased spending, particularly among high-net-worth clients, impacted flows this quarter. Still, our first-half NNA growth remains solid. Transactional revenues were $782 million. Excluding the impacts of DCP, revenues were up 5% versus last year. The increase was primarily driven by higher equity-related transactions.

我們認為，與稅收相關的資金外流和支出增加（尤其是高淨值客戶的支出增加）都影響了本季的資金流。儘管如此，我們上半年的 NNA 成長仍然強勁。交易收入為 7.82 億美元。排除 DCP 的影響，營收比去年成長 5%。這一增長主要是由股權相關交易增加所推動的。

Bank lending balances grew by $4 billion to $151 billion, evidence that as the macroeconomic backdrop stabilizes, our lending capabilities can be met and can meet our diversified client needs. Total deposits of $343 billion remain stable, with sweep deposits down approximately $10 billion sequentially, mostly offset by growth in CDs.

銀行貸款餘額增加了40億美元，達到1510億美元，證明隨著宏觀經濟背景的穩定，我們的貸款能力是可以滿足的，並且可以滿足我們多樣化的客戶需求。總存款 3,430 億美元維持穩定，掃蕩存款比上一季減少約 100 億美元，大部分被存款證的成長所抵銷。

Net interest income was down modestly to $1.8 billion, reflecting the decline in [sweep], which was largely attributed to the seasonality of tax payments. The wealth management business continues to perform well, aggregating assets, generating fees, and benefiting from scale in our differentiated offering, consistently earning approximately $100 million a day.

淨利息收入小幅下降至 18 億美元，反映出[掃除]的下降，這在很大程度上歸因於納稅的季節性。財富管理業務持續表現良好，聚合資產、產生費用，並受益於我們差異化產品的規模，持續每天賺取約 1 億美元的收入。

In the third quarter, we intend to make changes to our advisory sweep rates the backdrop of changing competitive dynamics. The impact of these intended changes will be largely offset with the expected gains from the repricing of our investment portfolio. Therefore, third-quarter NII will be primarily driven by the path of sweeps, and NII could decline modestly in the third quarter.

在第三季度，我們打算在競爭動態不斷變化的背景下對我們的諮詢掃描率進行更改。這些預期變化的影響將在很大程度上被我們投資組合重新定價的預期收益所抵消。因此，第三季NII將主要由橫掃路徑驅動，NII可能在第三季小幅下降。

Importantly, inclusive of these pricing changes, the rate path, and our expectations around client behavior, we believe that NII should inflect higher as you look out into next year. Our wealth management strategy is predicated on gathering assets, meeting our clients' lending needs, and offering advice. Asset management fees, the core of our wealth management strategy, continues to produce strong results, reaching a record this quarter.

重要的是，考慮到這些定價變化、利率路徑以及我們對客戶行為的預期，我們認為，展望明年，NII 應該會出現更高的變化。我們的財富管理策略以收集資產、滿足客戶的貸款需求和提供建議為基礎。作為我們財富管理策略的核心，資產管理費持續創造強勁業績，本季創下歷史新高。

Taken together, we delivered a strong margin, and we continue to work towards 30% margins over time. This quarter, we reached approximately [19 million] in relationships across our three channels, and we continue to invest in order to deepen engagement.

總而言之，我們實現了強勁的利潤率，隨著時間的推移，我們將繼續努力實現 30% 的利潤率。本季度，我們三個管道的關係達到約 [1,900 萬]，我們將繼續投資以加深參與度。

AI tools are helping advisors grow, and wealth management's partnership with institutional securities is increasing connectivity around our workplace offering. These investments have supported flows to our advisor-led channel, where average client duration is nearly 15 years and growing. The steady progress supports our journey towards $10 trillion plus in total client assets.

人工智慧工具正在幫助顧問成長，財富管理與機構證券的合作正在增強我們工作場所產品的連結性。這些投資支持了流向我們顧問主導通路的資金流，該通路的平均客戶持續時間接近 15 年，並​​且還在持續成長中。穩步進展支持我們邁向 10 兆美元以上客戶總資產的征程。

Turning to investment management. Revenues of $1.4 billion increased 8% from the prior second quarter, supported by higher asset management revenues. Asset management and related fees were $1.3 billion, up 6% year over year, reflecting higher average AUM. Total AUM ended the quarter at $1.5 trillion.

轉向投資管理。在資產管理收入增加的支撐下，第二季營收達到 14 億美元，較上一季成長 8%。資產管理及相關費用為 13 億美元，較去年成長 6%，反映平均資產管理規模較高。本季末資產管理規模總額為 1.5 兆美元。

Performance-based income and other revenues were $44 million, as gains were driven primarily by our infrastructure, US private credit, and US private equity funds, reflecting our investments in secular growth areas. We recorded long-term net outflows of approximately $1 billion. We continue to see strong momentum across areas of strategic focus, namely Parametric.

基於績效的收入和其他收入為 4,400 萬美元，收益主要由我們的基礎設施、美國私人信貸和美國私募股權基金推動，反映了我們在長期成長領域的投資。我們記錄的長期淨流出約為 10 億美元。我們繼續看到戰略重點領域（即參數化）的強勁勢頭。

Consistent with current industry trends, we saw outflows in our active equity strategies. Our business is well-positioned, given strength in areas of secular growth, such as customization, direct indexing, and private alternatives. Our continued focus on global distribution, combined with our deep structuring and product creation capabilities, should support incremental growth.

與當前的行業趨勢一致，我們的主動股票策略出現了資金外流。鑑於在定制、直接索引和私人替代品等長期成長領域的實力，我們的業務處於有利地位。我們對全球分銷的持續關注，加上我們深厚的結構和產品創造能力，應該會支持增量成長。

Turning to the balance sheet. Total spot assets decreased $16 billion from the prior quarter to $1.2 trillion. Our standardized CET1 ratio was 15.2%. Client activity was strong, and markets were open. We actively supported clients with a focus on velocity and competitive resources. We also grew our CET1 capital by $1.5 billion, reflecting strong earnings and continued capital distribution.

轉向資產負債表。現貨資產總額較上一季減少 160 億美元，至 1.2 兆美元。我們的標準化 CET1 比率為 15.2%。客戶活動強勁，市場開放。我們積極支持客戶，注重速度和競爭資源。我們的 CET1 資本也增加了 15 億美元，反映出強勁的獲利和持續的資本分配。

The most recent stress test results reaffirm our durable business model and strong capital position. For the third year in a row, we announced a quarterly dividend increase of $0.075 cents. Having generated over $3.85 of earnings per share, and an 18.6% ROTCE year to date, we entered the back half of the year from a position of strength, with a robust capital base to support clients.

最新的壓力測試結果再次證實了我們持久的商業模式和強大的資本狀況。我們連續第三年宣布季度股息增加 0.075 美分。年初至今，我們實現了超過 3.85 美元的每股盈餘和 18.6% 的 ROTCE，進入今年下半年，我們處於強勢地位，擁有強大的資本基礎來支持客戶。

Investment banking pipelines are healthy and diverse. Dialogues are active, and markets are open. In wealth management, strong fee-based flows and the realization of operating leverage continue to demonstrate that our strategy is working. As capital markets become more active, we see opportunities for retail clients to engage and over time deploy their cash and cash equivalent balances into fee-based products.

投資銀行通路健康且多樣化。對話活躍，市場開放。在財富管理方面，強勁的收費流量和營運槓桿的實現繼續表明我們的策略正在發揮作用。隨著資本市場變得更加活躍，我們看到零售客戶有機會參與並隨著時間的推移將其現金和現金等價物餘額部署到收費產品中。

With that, we will now open the lineup to questions.

至此，我們現在開始對陣容進行提問。

(Operator Instructions) Glenn Schorr, Evercore.

（操作員說明）Glenn Schorr，Evercore。

I appreciate all the upfront commentary on NII and wealth. I wanted to drill down a little bit on what you said. So if you have $2 trillion in client assets in advisory, and they keep a handful of percent of money in cash, that change you're making in rate paid on advisory -- on deposit and advisory accounts, can add up to like a good amount of money. So I wanted to get a little more sharper focus on what you said 2025 NII, and then what exactly did you say the offset is on the NII. Thanks.

我很欣賞所有關於 NII 和財富的預先評論。我想深入了解你所說的內容。因此，如果您在諮詢方面擁有2 兆美元的客戶資產，並且他們保留了一小部分現金，那麼您在諮詢方面（存款和諮詢帳戶）支付的利率所做出的改變，加起來可能會帶來不錯的效果。因此，我想更明確地關注您所說的 2025 NII，然後您所說的 NII 上的抵銷到底是什麼。謝謝。

Sure. Thanks, Glenn, for the question. Actually, the portion of the sweep balances that are impacted are, as you mentioned, the sweep on the advisor-led channel, which is actually a small portion of the overall BDP that we disclose. So it is a small portion of that overall stack, and the increase in pricing is being offset largely by the repricing of the investment portfolio. So as things mature and that investment portfolio reprices, it's that change in the quarter amount that will offset it when we look ahead.

當然。謝謝格倫提出的問題。實際上，正如您所提到的，受影響的掃掠餘額部分是顧問主導管道上的掃掠，這實際上只是我們披露的整體 BDP 的一小部分。因此，它只是整個堆疊的一小部分，定價的增加很大程度上被投資組合的重新定價所抵消。因此，隨著事情的成熟和投資組合的重新定價，當我們展望未來時，季度金額的變化將抵消它。

Okay. And is there a particular reason why you only have to focus on repricing in this small portion of the advisor-led channel, meaning not for all?

好的。是否有特殊原因讓您只需要關注顧問主導管道的這一小部分的重新定價，這意味著並非所有人？

Certainly. Yeah. What I would note there is that what we think about when we think about sweeps broadly is mainly in transactional accounts, and in those transactional accounts, we have a wide range of choices and products for our clients. And so therefore, they have a lot of options, as you think about their transactional accounts and brokerage.

當然。是的。我要指出的是，當我們廣泛考慮掃蕩時，我們想到的主要是交易帳戶，在這些交易帳戶中，我們為客戶提供了廣泛的選擇和產品。因此，當你考慮他們的交易帳戶和經紀業務時，他們有很多選擇。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

易卜拉欣·普納瓦拉，美國銀行。

Maybe sticking with NII and, more importantly, on pre-tax margins, right? You had an extremely strong quarter. The stock's weaker this morning, and it has to do with the NII drag on wealth, revenues, and margin.

也許堅持NII，更重要的是，堅持稅前利潤，對吧？你有一個非常強勁的季度。該股在今天早上走軟，與國家資訊基礎設施對財富、收入和利潤率的拖累有關。

So one, I think, Sharon, your level of visibility into NII, lots of moving pieces around client behavior, maybe we get interest rate cuts. Just give us a sense of if you see any guide on what rate cuts would imply for client behavior, or is there cash to assets that you're looking at that gives you comfort around NII potentially stabilizing post 3Q.

所以，我認為，莎倫，你對國家資訊基礎設施的了解程度，圍繞著客戶行為的許多變化，也許我們會得到降息。請告訴我們您是否看到任何有關降息對客戶行為意味著什麼的指南，或者您正在考慮的資產是否有現金，可以讓您對第三季後可能穩定的國家資訊基礎設施感到放心。

And then, maybe for you, a question -- go ahead. Yeah.

然後，也許對你來說，有一個問題——繼續。是的。

Yeah. So why don't I take that, and then you can ask your second question. So you are pointing out a great point, Ebrahim, as we look ahead through time, which was the second point of my guidance, is that when we look over the next year, we are seeing, and we expect that we should see an inflection in NII. And that is predicated on the points that you mentioned, which is that, as you see rate cuts, we would expect those balances to stabilize.

是的。那我為什麼不接受這個，然後你可以問你的第二個問題。所以你指出了一個很好的觀點，易卜拉欣，當我們展望未來時，這是我指導的第二點，那就是，當我們展望明年時，我們正在看到，並且我們期望我們應該看到一個拐點在NII。這是基於你提到的幾點，即當你看到降息時，我們預計這些餘額會穩定下來。

Remember, outside of the tax quarter, this particular quarter, we had been seeing a stabilization in those sweep deposits. So it's important to recognize that that has been happening, reaching that frictional level of transactional cash. So that would likely continue. And then over time, you would also begin to see a benefit as rates were to be cut, that BDP could actually see inflows, which you've seen from a historical perspective.

請記住，在這個特定季度的稅收季度之外，我們已經看到這些掃蕩存款的穩定性。因此，重要的是要認識到這種情況已經發生，達到了交易現金的摩擦水平。所以這種情況可能會持續下去。然後隨著時間的推移，你也會開始看到降息帶來的好處，BDP 實際上可以看到資金流入，這是你從歷史角度看到的。

But in addition to that, you have two other factors. One is the repricing of the portfolio, which I've also already mentioned. And the second piece has to do with lending. We look to continue to support our clients with lending products, and you're beginning to also see that potentially reach an inflection. This is the first quarter that we've seen this type of lending growth since the interest rate hikes began.

但除此之外，還有另外兩個因素。一是投資組合的重新定價，我也已經提過。第二部分與貸款有關。我們希望繼續透過貸款產品為客戶提供支持，您也開始看到這種情況可能會出現轉折點。這是自加息開始以來我們第一次看到這種類型的貸款增長。

We've seen now use of SBL products rather than just it being offset by paydowns. So those are all encouraging signs when we look ahead over the course of the next year for NII.

我們現在已經看到 SBL 產品的使用，而不僅僅是它被付款所抵消。因此，當我們展望 NII 明年的發展時，這些都是令人鼓舞的跡象。

That's helpful. And I guess my second question was this -- talking to investors, when we look at the 30% pretax margin target, the question is whether this is aspirational, whether the bar is set too high, given how competitive the business is. So remind us in terms of your comfort level on that 30% pretax margin. And to the extent you can, the timeline of when we get there and when we get there, should that be a sustainable pace for the business? Thanks.

這很有幫助。我想我的第二個問題是——與投資者交談，當我們考慮30% 的稅前利潤率目標時，問題是考慮到業務的競爭程度，這是否是理想的，門檻是否設置得太高。因此請提醒我們您對 30% 稅前利潤的舒適度。在您可以的範圍內，我們何時到達那裡的時間表以及何時到達那裡，這應該是業務的可持續步伐嗎？謝謝。

Thanks, Ebrahim. Confidence level high. If you take a step back, there are three pieces to the wealth management line: asset management, transactional, net interest income, as you know. In the asset management context, those are fees that are going to fee-based accounts, advisory led. Those figures are up 4% sequentially and 16% year over year. That is fee-paying advice. Last quarter, the net new assets into that category was $26 billion. So fee-based flows, that continues to be a growth piece of the wealth management story.

謝謝，易卜拉欣。信心水平高。如果退一步看，財富管理線分為三個部分：資產管理、交易、淨利息收入，如您所知。在資產管理領域，這些費用將進入以諮詢為主導的收費帳戶。這些數字比上一季成長 4%，比去年同期成長 16%。這是付費建議。上個季度，該類別的淨新資產為 260 億美元。因此，基於費用的流量仍然是財富管理故事的成長部分。

The second cylinder is transactional. Transactional has been relatively weak, which is a link to general weakness in overall capital markets activity. And as you hear from our bullish commentary with respect to overall corporate finance activity in the investment bank, that will bleed through over time to the transactional line.

第二個氣缸是事務​​性的。交易相對疲軟，與整體資本市場活動普遍疲軟有關。正如您從我們對投資銀行整體企業融資活動的樂觀評論中聽到的那樣，隨著時間的推移，這種情況將滲透到交易領域。

And then third, the net interest income line. And as Sharon said, that will inflect and should inflect over the next year. You put those together, the scale of the business, the funnel, and the processing of $100 million of revenues a day that continue to grow, we are going to continue to achieve operating leverage.

第三，淨利息收入線。正如莎倫所說，這將會發生變化，並且應該在明年發生變化。把這些放在一起，業務規模、漏斗以及每天 1 億美元收入的處理都在持續成長，我們將繼續實現營運槓桿。

It's that simple. We're investing in E*TRADE. We're investing in the traditional advisor. And we're spending a lot of time top of house, focused on workplace, which we think is an enormous opportunity across our corporate and sponsor base.

就是這麼簡單。我們正在投資 E*TRADE。我們正在投資傳統顧問。我們花了很多時間在辦公室的頂層，專注於工作場所，我們認為這對我們的公司和贊助商群體來說是一個巨大的機會。

In January, I had said, 30% was the goal. We were in the mid-20s. We just printed 27% gap, 28% [ex-TCP]. It's a core stated objective. It will take some quarters to get there, but we intend on achieving it over time as we continue to grow assets and scale in the business.

一月份，我曾說過，30% 是目標。我們當時20多歲。我們剛剛印製了 27% 的差距，28% [ex-TCP]。這是一個核心既定目標。要實現這一目標需要幾個季度的時間，但隨著我們不斷擴大資產和業務規模，我們打算隨著時間的推移實現這一目標。

Mike Mayo, Wells Fargo.

麥克梅奧，富國銀行。

Hi. Ted, you've said this, and Sharon repeated this, that the industry is only in the early innings of an investment banking rebound. I have to say, we've heard that for a couple of years. And now is this time -- why is this time real? Do you expect the rebound to continue through the normally slow summer period before the election? How many years? What gives you confidence that this is for real? How much is your backlog up quarter over quarter?

你好。泰德，你說過這一點，莎倫重複了這一點，即該行業僅處於投資銀行業反彈的早期階段。我不得不說，這種說法我們已經聽了好幾年了。現在就是這個時間──為什麼這個時間是真的？您預計反彈會持續到大選前通常緩慢的夏季時期嗎？多少年？是什麼讓您確信這是真的？您的積壓訂單逐季增加了多少？

It's an excellent question, because you're exactly right that a number of folks have been calling for this, and it has been sort of a delayed shoots, if you will. But I think now we're seeing some tempering of the inflation prints and some normalization rates.

這是一個很好的問題，因為你說得很對，很多人一直在呼籲這樣做，如果你願意的話，這有點推遲了拍攝。但我認為現在我們看到通膨數據有所緩和，利率正常化。

We're also beginning along with that to see the market broaden out. You, of course, have seen that over the last number of weeks. And I think we can now expect broader corporate finance activity to quicken, whether that is across the corporate community or sponsors or other institutions. And the early sign of this kind of activity can be seen in the convertibles product. Global convertibles activity is up significantly. And as you know, on the margin ladder, it typically goes converts, IPO, and then M&A.

我們也開始關注市場的擴大。當然，您在過去幾週已經看到了這一點。我認為我們現在可以預期更廣泛的企業融資活動將會加速，無論是整個企業界、贊助商或其他機構。這種活動的早期跡象可以在敞篷車產品中看到。全球可轉換債券活動大幅增加。如您所知，在利潤階梯上，通常會進行轉換、首次公開募股，然後是併購。

In the context of bake-offs and the like, in some spaces we're seeing bake-offs running at triple plus the year-over-year rate that they were at for sectors and for some of our client groups. We've been seeing now the launch of traditional IPOs, and we're seeing M&A pipeline kicking in. So corporate community, sponsor community, cross-border community, I think we're in the early stages of a multi-year investment banking-led cycle.

在烘焙等方面，在某些領域，我們看到行業和我們的一些客戶群的烘焙比去年同期增長了三倍。我們現在已經看到傳統首次公開募股的推出，我們看到併購管道正在啟動。

If you believe the economy is going to hold up, led by the US, you should expect then to see that if there's some regulatory normalization, too, across a whole bunch of the sectors that are typically most active. So we are quite convicted on this call.

如果你相信經濟將在美國的引領下保持穩定，那麼你應該會看到，在通常最活躍的一大堆行業中，監管是否也會正常化。所以我們對這通電話感到非常有罪。

And just one pushback. I mean, with interest rates so much higher than they've been in the past, don't you think that could get in the way when people are looking to borrow money for deals and the like? Is this a matter of simply waiting for rates to go lower? Or that's not going to get in the way?

只是一個阻力。我的意思是，由於利率比過去高得多，您是否認為當人們尋求借錢進行交易等時，這可能會成為障礙？難道只是等待利率下降嗎？還是這不會妨礙？

I mean, it's a fair question. You've written about this in the context of, you know, what was the normal before financial repression. And I would take the view that in the context of the last 15 years, even some normalization, because I don't know that we're going to go into a full-blown rate cycle, to your point, some normalization of rates will still have you at 3% or 4% on the front end, and even some steepening, potentially.

我的意思是，這是一個公平的問題。你在金融抑制之前的正常情況的背景下寫了這篇文章。我認為，在過去 15 年的背景下，即使是某種程度的正常化，因為我不知道我們是否會進入一個全面的利率週期，就你的觀點而言，某種程度的利率正常化將會前端仍然有3% 或4%，甚至可能會有些陡峭。

So now we're just back to the old weighted average cost of capital of the mid-'90s and most normal economic periods. And the game will have to go on, because there's just been so much activity that has been suppressed by any kind of measure or percentage of asset, of stock, percentage of market cap. And the stickiness that we're seeing in the sponsor community, too, needs to unglue.

現在我們又回到了 90 年代中期和大多數正常經濟時期的舊加權平均資本成本。這場遊戲必須繼續下去，因為有太多的活動被任何一種衡量標準或資產百分比、股票百分比、市值百分比所抑制。我們在贊助商社群中看到的黏性也需要消除。

There is an enormous, as you know, multi-trillion-dollar stockpile between the two sides of sitting on inventory that needs to be released and then dry powder that's been raised. That will act as a competitive weapon against the competitive bid from the corporate community that has to contend with the reality, of a smaller world with real sovereign risk and real cost of capital differences from one jurisdiction to another.

如您所知，庫存兩側之間存在著價值數萬億美元的巨大庫存需要釋放，然後是已籌集的乾粉。這將成為對抗企業界競標的競爭武器，企業界必須應對現實，即一個較小的世界，一個司法管轄區與另一個司法管轄區之間存在真正的主權風險和實際資本成本差異。

So in short, unless you were to tell me we're going to go into full-blown recession, which none of us can call, and that even if we saw rates normalized to something that is along the lines of the historic 4% on the front end, I think you will see over the next number of quarters, and really over the next number of years, a resumption of more normalized M&A activity with the key difference being that the financial sponsor community is now institutionally come of age.

簡而言之，除非你告訴我，我們將進入全面衰退，而我們誰都不能稱之為全面衰退，而且即使我們看到利率正常化至歷史性的 4% 水平，在前端，我認為您將在接下來的幾個季度，甚至在接下來的幾年裡看到，併購活動將恢復更加正常化，其主要區別在於，金融贊助商社群現在在製度上已經成熟。

They have global reach. They can work the entire capital structure. They will work in concert with corporate partners, as you know. They don't actually have to act as lone wolves, and they can work with us to finance the package.

他們具有全球影響力。他們可以運作整個資本結構。如您所知，他們將與企業合作夥伴合作。他們實際上不必充當獨狼，他們可以與我們合作為該計劃提供資金。

So it's not just the straight M&A advice or the straight IPO. It will also be bespoke offerings in the private-public space. It will also be bespoke offerings in the private-public space, interest rate and foreign exchange hedging and the other ornaments on the investment banking tree that a couple of the leading global investment banks can bring.

因此，這不僅僅是直接的併購建議或直接的首次公開募股。它還將是私人-公共空間的客製化產品。它還將是私人-公共領域的客製化產品、利率和外匯對沖以及幾家全球領先的投資銀行可以帶來的投資銀行樹上的其他裝飾品。

And this is really why, over the last couple of years, to the extent we've done so-called front office hiring, it really has been to target several very high-quality investment bankers who typically have spent their entire careers at one firm and have decided to come to the Morgan Stanley platform, and we're seeing the fruits of that across industries.

這就是為什麼在過去幾年中，就我們進行所謂的前台招聘而言，它確實是針對幾位非常高品質的投資銀行家，他們通常在一家公司度過了整個職業生涯並決定加入摩根士丹利平台，我們正在看到跨產業的成果。

So I am quite blessed. I am quite bullish on it, certainly take your point that it has been a number of quarters sort of on the promise. But I think as we get into 2025 and the election coming, and then the election behind us, we should see that activity continue on a sustainable pace. *

所以我很幸運。我非常看好它，當然接受你的觀點，即已經有幾個季度兌現了這一承諾。但我認為，隨著我們進入 2025 年，選舉即將到來，選舉也將過去，我們應該看到這項活動繼續以可持續的速度進行。 *

Dan Fannon, Jefferies.

丹‧範農，傑弗里斯。

Good morning. I was hoping to get a little bit more color on the flows in the quarter within wealth, maybe the breakdown from the channels and contribution. Last quarter, I think we saw family office being an outsized contributor, but hoping to get a little bit more color on where the flows were sourced in 2Q.

早安.我希望對本季財富的流動情況有更多的了解，也許是通路和貢獻的細分。上個季度，我認為我們看到家族辦公室做出了巨大的貢獻，但希望在第二季度的資金來源方面獲得更多的資訊。

Sure, I'll take that. It's, we continue to see broad-based sourcing in terms of where those assets are coming from. In this particular quarter, as I mentioned, the biggest offset and drag, though, is really from taxes. So it's, you still have workplace accounts, you still have the advice-based account directly, you still have self-directed, all those places remain contributors.

當然，我會接受的。就這些資產的來源而言，我們繼續看到廣泛基礎的採購。正如我所提到的，在這個特定的季度，最大的抵消和拖累實際上來自稅收。所以，你仍然有工作場所帳戶，你仍然有直接基於建議的帳戶，你仍然有自我指導，所有這些地方仍然是貢獻者。

What continues in my mind to be most interesting, though, isn't just the contribution that you're getting from the three various channels. But the fact that you have in the advice-based channel, it's not just coming from existing clients, but it's split with existing and net new clients. And some of those net new clients are also relationships that are being sourced from workplace.

然而，在我看來，最有趣的不僅僅是您從三個不同管道獲得的貢獻。但事實上，在基於建議的管道中，它不僅來自現有客戶，而且還與現有客戶和淨新客戶分開。其中一些淨新客戶也是來自工作場所的關係。

So I would not just directly focus on what channel is it coming from, but how are you seeing those channel and that interplay work. Because that's actually the power of the differentiated platform. Once you have somebody who wants more differentiated advice from self-directed, speaks to an advisor, that advisor sees net new clients bring in assets, and then that's new acquisitions into the funnel and eventually into fee based. So it's really the whole ecosystem that I would call your attention to, rather than just one isolated leg.

因此，我不會直接關注它來自哪個管道，而是你如何看待這些管道和互動的工作。因為這其實就是差異化平台的力量。一旦有人想要從自我指導中得到更多差異化的建議，與顧問交談，該顧問就會看到淨新客戶帶來資產，然後新的收購進入管道，最終進入收費階段。因此，我確實要提請您注意整個生態系統，而不僅僅是一個孤立的部分。

Which is part of the reason that workplace is so important, because if workplace can continue to experience success amongst the corporate and sponsor community, that has an affinity effect on the top of the house at those institutions in terms of their own wealth and then potentially other products around it.

這就是工作場所如此重要的部分原因，因為如果工作場所能夠繼續在企業和贊助商群體中取得成功，那麼這些機構的高層就其自身的財富而言，就會產生親和力效應，然後可能會產生親和力效應周遭的其他產品。

So it can be an indirect sale, where you aren't necessarily going directly to the prospective client via the FAA, but you could actually work potential clients through the institutionalized effect of workplace, where we do a great job educating on wellness, financial wellness, and then effectively institutionalizing ourselves by overseeing incentive comp through the Morgan Stanley Solium product. And having succeeded on an MS at work mandate, which, as you know, is a durable, sticky asset that effectively is seen by the entire employee base, you can start working your way up the funnel to the senior executives of that firm.

因此，這可以是間接銷售，您不一定會透過聯邦航空局直接接觸潛在客戶，但您實際上可以透過工作場所的製度化效果與潛在客戶合作，我們在健康、財務健康方面做得很好，然後透過摩根士丹利Solium 產品監督激勵補償，有效地將我們自己制度化。如您所知，在工作中獲得MS 授權是一種持久的、有粘性的資產，並且可以被整個員工群體有效地看到，在成功獲得該授權後，您就可以開始沿著漏斗向上晉升為該公司的高級管理人員。

Brennan Hawken, UBS.

布倫南霍肯，瑞銀集團。

Yeah, good morning, Ted. Thanks for taking my question. I'd like to just drill down a little more, give a second follow-up here on the repricing change that you mentioned in your prepared comments, Sharon. So the repricing that we've seen in the securities book has been slow.

是的，早安，泰德。感謝您提出我的問題。莎倫，我想再深入一點，對您在準備好的評論中提到的重新定價變化進行第二次跟進。因此，我們在證券帳簿中看到的重新定價速度很慢。

So I'm just kind of curious as to why you think that will help offset the repricing actions that you're taking on the deposit side. Is that because it'll be a phased repricing, and therefore, there's an ability to have the phased benefit in the asset side offse. And then just a nitty-gritty question on it, is the switch going to be to money fund sweep rather than higher yielding deposits, and then that way you can just slowly replace that funding as you see fit?

所以我只是好奇為什麼你認為這將有助於抵消你在存款方面採取的重新定價行動。這是因為它將是分階段重新定價，因此有能力在資產方面獲得階段性收益。然後是一個本質問題，是否會轉向貨幣基金掃蕩，而不是收益率更高的存款，然後你就可以按照你認為合適的方式慢慢更換資金？

So thanks, Brennan. I'll take that question. No, all the changes that we'll make will happen -- are expected to happen in the third quarter. And so those different changes will be made, and they'll be based on various competitive dynamics.

謝謝，布倫南。我來回答這個問題。不，我們將做出的所有改變都會發生——預計將在第三季發生。因此，將會做出這些不同的改變，它們將基於各種競爭動態。

Okay, got it. And then is this going to be focused on the advisory relationship, similar to what we've seen from some other warehouse competitors? And could you just -- is it the changes that have recently been announced by Wells and BofA? Is that what you mean by competitive dynamics, or is there something else that I'm not aware of?

好，知道了。那麼這是否會集中在諮詢關係上，類似於我們從其他一些倉庫競爭對手那裡看到的那樣？您能否—這是富國銀行和美國銀行最近宣布的變更嗎？這就是你所說的競爭動態，還是還有其他我不知道的事？

Nope. That's exactly as I stated it, and it will just be limited, as you said, to the sweeps that are dealt with in the advisor-led channel.

沒有。這正是我所說的，正如您所說，它僅限於顧問主導的管道中處理的掃描。

Devin Ryan, JMP Securities.

德文·瑞安 (Devin Ryan)，JMP 證券。

The first question, just on -- another one on the GWM flows. Sharon, you mentioned tax season is a factor, which you completely get, but then you also mentioned increased client spending. And I just wanted to drill into that, just whether that's something that could continue, whether it was seasonal or influenced by inflation, just trying to understand that component of the impact on flows.

第一個問題是關於 GWM 流程的另一個問題。莎倫，您提到報稅季節是一個因素，您完全明白這一點，但您也提到了客戶支出的增加。我只是想深入探討這一點，無論這種情況是否會持續下去，無論是季節性的還是受通貨膨脹的影響，只是想了解對流量影響的組成部分。

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question. I did call it out. We've seen increased spending by hundreds. We've seen increased spending by higher net worth. And so higher-income bands are certainly spending. We see that in the data alongside actual spending. We see that in purchases of homes. We see that in various tailored investments.

是的，我認為這是一個非常有趣的問題。我確實叫出來了。我們看到支出增加了數百。我們看到淨資產增加導致支出增加。因此，高收入族群肯定會花錢。我們在數據和實際支出中看到了這一點。我們在購屋中看到了這一點。我們在各種量身定制的投資中看到了這一點。

So they are -- that cohort, so to speak, is using its cash in different ways and its various investment in different ways. So I too think that that's an interesting dynamic that's playing out. I know that others have mentioned it within their portfolios as well. It's certainly something we're seeing in our data.

所以，可以說，這群人正在以不同的方式使用其現金，並以不同的方式使用其各種投資。所以我也認為這是一個正在發生的有趣的動態。我知道其他人也在他們的投資組合中提到過它。這肯定是我們在數據中看到的。

Okay. Got it. Thank you. And then a follow-up just on the interplay between investment banking and trading, and appreciate the commentary on kind of the improving capital markets backdrop, which is great to hear and kind of the expectation from our end that there's going to be a lot more primary issuance and equities maybe in debt as well as M&A picks up.

好的。知道了。謝謝。然後是關於投資銀行和交易之間相互作用的後續行動，並欣賞對資本市場背景改善的評論，這很高興聽到，並且我們期望會有更多初級發行和股票可能陷入債務以及併購的增加。

So just trying to think about what that means for the trading businesses, equities and fixed income, and whether you guys feel like we could maybe sustain around these really high levels or even -- maybe even the wallet could move higher just as you get a stronger primary issuance market.

因此，只是想一下這對交易業務、股票和固定收益意味著什麼，以及你們是否覺得我們可以維持在這些真正的高水平上，甚至——也許錢包可能會走高，就像你得到一個一級發行市場走強。

Well, I know that the competitive set will naturally speak to areas where integration can be an asset. Here, we have, we believe, something really special. Insight. We have an asset that's going to be part of our institutional securities business, our so-called integrated investment bank, which has been ongoing for now we're getting on seven or eight years now under Dan Simkowitz direction.

嗯，我知道競爭環境自然會牽涉到整合可以成為一種資產的領域。我們相信，在這裡，我們擁有一些非常特別的東西。洞察力。我們擁有一項資產，將成為我們機構證券業務的一部分，即我們所謂的綜合投資銀行，該業務目前已經在 Dan Simkowitz 的指導下進行了七八年。

And this is a sort of critical facet of business strategy at our place because you have now the appropriate and important relationships that have been built across fixed income, equities, and banking through our capital markets new issue business. You have those now having been compounded and advanced by the mobilization of some folks from one division to another.

這是我們業務策略的關鍵方面，因為您現在已經透過我們的資本市場新發行業務在固定收益、股票和銀行業務上建立了適當且重要的關係。現在，由於某些人從一個部門動員到另一個部門，這些工作已經變得更加複雜和先進。

So there's real familiarity now with the work product. A lot of the work product, as you know, is not traditional vanilla IPOs. Yes, there are some on the horizon that are quite substantial, and we'd expect that to be an important part of the calendar. But there's also more bespoke product, whether it be convertibles or products in the private area or products that effectively necessitate high-quality structuring and advice.

所以現在對工作產品已經非常熟悉了。如您所知，許多工作產品並不是傳統的普通 IPO。是的，即將到來的一些活動相當重要，我們希望這將成為日曆的重要組成部分。但也有更多的客製化產品，無論是敞篷車還是私人區域的產品，或實際上需要高品質的結構和建議的產品。

And that can only be brought to the boardroom if you have world-class investment bankers who can lean on the expertise of their colleagues, not just in the new issue business, but as appropriate in institutional equities and in fixed income.

只有擁有世界一流的投資銀行家，他們才能依靠同事的專業知識，不僅在新發行業務方面，而且在機構股票和固定收益方面也能發揮適當的作用，才能將這一點帶到董事會。

And if you look at our fixed income business, for example, and fixed income underwriting, you'll see that the share gains have been quite extraordinary and that the year-over-year revenue number, I believe, is up 71%. That speaks to a fine work that's been done by folks, not just in the debt capital markets business, which is housed inside of our new issue business linked to banking, but also working closely with fixed income professionals, whether they are in the securitized products group, in our commodities area, broader credit, or in our macro space, i.e., interest rate and foreign exchange.

例如，如果你看看我們的固定收益業務和固定收益承保，你會發現份額收益非常驚人，而且我相信同比收入增長了 71%。這說明了人們所做的出色工作，不僅是在債務資本市場業務（該業務屬於我們與銀行業相關的新發行業務的範圍內），而且還與固定收益專業人士密切合作，無論他們是在證券化產品中集團，在我們的商品領域，更廣泛的信貸，或在我們的宏觀空間，即利率和外匯。

So when you get into the knitting of ISG, our integrated investment bank, you see that part of the reason that we are bullish on, not just to Mike's earlier question on the denominator, but also on our ability to increase the numerator is not so much because we think there is a need to deploy a lot more capital.

因此，當您了解我們的綜合投資銀行 ISG 的情況時，您會發現我們看漲的部分原因不僅是麥克之前關於分母的問題，而且還看好我們增加分子的能力。資本。

We will do so as appropriate when the market's demanded, but that we are able to get the kind of bespoke advice for clients that comes from the familiarity of our people, the quality of the advice that is differentiated. And importantly, that it's global, so that we can bring it to the client base.

我們將在市場需要時酌情這樣做，但我們能夠為客戶提供客製化建議，這些建議來自於我們員工的熟悉度和差異化的建議品質。重要的是，它是全球性的，因此我們可以將其帶給客戶群。

So that is part of, I think, the secret sauce that we've been working hard on to generate above cost of capital returns inside the investment bank on a standalone basis. And that obviously doesn't include even the synergies that we'd see across the firm into wealth and investment management.

因此，我認為，這是我們一直在努力研究的秘密武器的一部分，以在獨立的基礎上在投資銀行內部產生高於資本成本的回報。這顯然不包括我們在整個公司看到的財富和投資管理的協同效應。

But your question is on the investment bank specifically. Yeah. And I feel really good about the way it's structured, the leadership that we have within it, the experience set, and then our ability now to tap into this next cycle, which will be different than the last one.

但你的問題是專門針對投資銀行的。是的。我對它的結構方式、我們在其中的領導力、經驗集以及我們現在進入下一個週期的能力感到非常滿意，這將與上一個週期不同。

Rates will be well higher than that of financial repression. We'll be toggling between some bouts of inflation and potential recession. We'll be dealing with the unpredictability going to not only our own cycle, US election cycle, but the world around us. But also the coming of age and the institutionalization of the financial sponsor community, where we have very strong relationships with that leadership group from top to bottom across the investment bank, wealth, and investment management.

利率將遠高於金融抑制的利率。我們將在通貨膨脹和潛在衰退之間來回切換。我們不僅要應對我們自己的週期、美國選舉週期的不可預測性，還要應對周遭世界的不可預測性。還有金融贊助商社群的成熟和製度化，我們與投資銀行、財富和投資管理領域自上而下的領導團隊有著非常牢固的關係。

Steven Chubak, Wolfe Research.

史蒂文‧丘巴克，沃爾夫研究中心。

So maybe just starting off with a question just on operating leverage within ISG. Year to date, the incremental margins are quite strong, just north of 80%. You spoke constructively on IB and trading inflecting positively. Just want to better understand what you believe is a sustainable incremental margin as activity steadily builds, especially given some of the growth, at least from here, may skew a little bit more heavily towards investment banking, which tends to be more compensable.

因此，也許我們首先要問一個關於 ISG 內部營運槓桿的問題。今年迄今為止，增量利潤率相當強勁，略高於 80%。您對 IB 和交易的正面影響發表了建設性的演講。只是想更了解您認為隨著活動的穩定成長，可持續的增量利潤率是多少，特別是考慮到一些成長，至少從這裡開始，可能會更嚴重地偏向投資銀行業務，而投資銀行業務往往更容易獲得補償。

So when you look at it -- I would really focus, Steve, on the efficiency ratio targets that we've put for the whole firm. We think that the firm can run at or below the 70% over time through a durable cycle. The issue with your specific question, as you yourself highlighted, is it depends on where those different revenues are coming from. So there might be periods of time where it's higher [BCNA-related]. There might be periods of time where you have different jurisdictions associated with it.

因此，當你看到它時 - 史蒂夫，我真的會專注於我們為整個公司設定的效率目標。我們認為，隨著時間的推移，公司可以在持久的周期中以 70% 或以下的速度運行。正如您自己所強調的那樣，您的具體問題的問題在於，這取決於這些不同的收入來自哪裡。因此，可能有一段時間它會更高[BCNA 相關]。在某些時候，您可能擁有與之相關的不同司法管轄區。

But broadly speaking, the enterprise, we've given 30% margins as it relates to wealth and the sort of wealth and investment management space, and then you have the ISG space. So by definition, if you're running at 70% efficiency ratio more broadly, you look for an entire enterprise to run at somewhere of a 30% margin.

但從廣義上講，對於企業，我們給予了 30% 的利潤，因為它與財富以及財富和投資管理空間的類型有關，然後你就有了 ISG 空間。因此，根據定義，如果您更廣泛地以 70% 的效率運行，那麼您會尋找整個企業以 30% 的利潤率運行。

Yeah. The only thing I would add to that is, of course, as you know, there's real seasonality in the business. Fixed income tends to have its strongest quarter street-wide in the first quarter. Investment banking typically in the fourth quarter. That's not every year, but that's typically how it shakes out. Third quarter tends to be weaker in the summer months, and then it's sort of all about September. And obviously, this September will be one that will be driven in part by sentiment around the upcoming elections.

是的。當然，我要補充的是，正如您所知，該行業確實存在季節性。固定收益往往在第一季出現全街最強勁的季度。投資銀行業務通常在第四季進行。雖然不是每年都會這樣，但通常情況就是如此。第三季夏季月份往往會疲軟，然後是九月。顯然，今年九月將在某種程度上受到即將到來的選舉情緒的推動。

So that's kind of the seasonality piece. The other is just the scale within the businesses. I'd be remiss, again, not to sort of underscore the importance of having reached $3 billion in the equities business. This has been a leading business where we have been number one or number two for the last dozen years. And we see the clients are much in demand of our services across cash, derivatives, and prime brokerage. And then connecting to investment banking, I think that business has, too, hit an inflection point again where they can continue to prosecute a high-margin business through the cycle.

這就是季節性的作品。另一個是企業內部的規模。如果我不強調股票業務達到 30 億美元的重要性，那就太失職了。這是一項領先的業務，過去十幾年我們一直排名第一或第二。我們發現客戶非常需要我們的現金、衍生性商品和大宗經紀服務。然後連接到投資銀行業務，我認為業務也再次達到了轉折點，他們可以在整個週期中繼續追求高利潤業務。

All of this, of course, is dependent on the economy holding up and general asset price levels. But given where we are right now, we're feeling good about that, too.

當然，這一切都取決於經濟狀況和整體資產價格水平。但考慮到我們現在所處的位置，我們也對此感覺良好。

No, thanks for that perspective. And just a follow-up on the deposit discussion. Both you and your Wirehouse peers announced similar actions on deposits, which you noted, Sharon. You mentioned it was informed by competitive dynamics. But I wanted to better understand if there was any feedback you or your peers had received from regulators that prompted the decision. Because from our vantage point, the timing of these pricing actions at this stage of the rate cycle is simply difficult to reconcile.

不，謝謝你的觀點。這只是存款討論的後續行動。你和你的 Wirehouse 同行都宣布了類似的存款行動，莎倫，你注意到了這一點。您提到這是由競爭動態決定的。但我想更了解您或您的同事是否從監管機構收到了任何回饋，從而促使了這一決定。因為從我們的角度來看，在利率週期的這個階段，這些定價行為的時機根本難以協調。

I'm sorry, Steve. We don't comment, as you know, on regulatory matters.

對不起，史蒂夫。如您所知，我們不對監管問題發表評論。

Okay. Fair enough. I had to try. Thanks for taking my questions.

好的。很公平。我必須嘗試一下。感謝您回答我的問題。

Gerard Cassidy, RBC.

傑拉德·卡西迪，加拿大皇家銀行。

You gave us good insights into your thinking about what the capital markets could bring, especially in investment banking. And I think you touched on in your comments with trends, or maybe you have, Sharon, that the transactional numbers could benefit from a stronger ECM business. Can you then take the next second derivative and share with us from your experience with [Solium]?

您對資本市場（尤其是投資銀行業務）可以帶來什麼的思考給了我們很好的見解。我認為您在評論中談到了趨勢，或者莎倫，您可能已經提到過，交易量可能會受益於更強大的 ECM 業務。然後您可以取下一個二階導數並與我們分享您使用 [Solium] 的經驗嗎？

Should we see that business pick up the workplace channel if more of these maybe private equity sponsor companies go public? Should the workplace channels see stronger revenues potentially? Revenues potentially in a stronger investment banking market over the next 12 or 18 months?

如果有更多的私募股權贊助公司上市，我們是否應該看到企業開始走上工作場所管道？工作場所管道是否有可能獲得更強勁的收入？未來 12 或 18 個月，投資銀行市場的收入可能會更加強勁嗎？

I think that's a great question. I know, Gerard, a few years ago you also asked me about different values of those assets associated with what the underlying is. I completely agree with you.

我認為這是一個很好的問題。我知道，傑拉德，幾年前您也問過我與基礎資產相關的這些資產的不同價值。我完全同意你的看法。

As you have workplace assets rise, the value of those client assets rise, new corporations issue their employees more stock. They also grow their employee base. It should absolutely add participants. It should add new corporates. It will add new net flows.

當工作場所資產增加時，這些客戶資產的價值也會增加，新公司會向員工發行更多股票。他們也擴大了員工基礎。它絕對應該增加參與者。它應該增加新的公司。它將增加新的淨流量。

And now that we have all of, you know, that when you just had Solium, now you also have E*TRADE and Workplace, and the platforms are integrated. So as those flows flow into an E*TRADE account, people can transact on that. And then as Ted said, we can also offer financial wellness. So absolutely, it helps that ecosystem begin to work.

現在我們擁有了所有這些，您知道，當您剛剛擁有 Solium 時，現在您還擁有 E*TRADE 和 Workplace，並且這些平台是整合的。因此，當這些資金流入 E*TRADE 帳戶時，人們就可以進行交易。然後，正如特德所說，我們也可以提供財務健康。所以絕對，它有助於該生態系統開始發揮作用。

Very good. Very good. And just as a follow-up, Ted, if I take a step back, obviously, you guys have done a very good job in the last 10 years of growing organically, but then complementing that growth with acquisitions. Once we get the Basel III endgame final proposal, maybe some G-SIB relief, can you share with us, as you look out over the next two, three years, is there any parts of the picture today that you'd like to enhance possibly with acquisitions? Or are you a good way you are today?

非常好。非常好。 Ted，作為後續行動，如果我退後一步，顯然，你們在過去 10 年中在有機增長方面做得非常好，但隨後通過收購來補充這種增長。一旦我們得到巴塞爾協議 III 的最終提案，也許會減輕一些 G-SIB 的負擔，您能否與我們分享一下，當您展望未來兩三年時，今天的情況是否有您想要加強的部分可能透過收購？或是你今天的狀態好嗎？

I'll take the opportunity to sort of give a brief view on capital, if I could, Gerard, and link that to potential external opportunities. We anticipated or believed it was possible that we could have a tougher annual CCAR test, and indeed it was. And what we've prioritized in potential uses of capital, above all, is that we've prioritized in potential uses of capital above all, things has been dividend policy.

傑拉德，如果可以的話，我將藉此機會簡要介紹資本，並將其與潛在的外部機會聯繫起來。我們預計或相信我們可能會進行更嚴格的年度 CCAR 測試，事實確實如此。我們優先考慮資本的潛在用途，最重要的是，我們優先考慮資本的潛在用途，這就是股利政策。

And as you know, we are increasing dividend again to $0.925 cents, which at spot offers a 3.5% current, 3.5% dividend yield. So that is the continued highest priority on use of capital, if you include, of course, use of capital to inorganic opportunity.

如您所知，我們再次將股息提高至 0.925 美分，即期股息殖利率為 3.5%，股息殖利率為 3.5%。因此，如果當然包括將資本用於無機機會，那麼這仍然是資本使用的最高優先事項。

Second, our clients, we have continued to lean in for clients across the business segment, as appropriate, and you see the operating leverage across the businesses, particularly across the investment bank. But we've also thought about the buyback opportunistically and have been buying stock back and returning capital this past quarter, more than $2 billion between the dividend and the buyback, in a way that has been reflective of offering us that optionality.

其次，我們的客戶，我們繼續酌情向整個業務部門的客戶傾斜，你會看到各個業務部門的營運槓桿，特別是整個投資銀行的營運槓桿。但我們也考慮了機會主義的回購，並在上個季度回購股票並返還資本，股息和回購之間的金額超過 20 億美元，這反映了為我們提供了這種選擇。

As we sit here today, we are 170 base points above the buffer. And importantly, we continue to be in the 3.0 G-SIB buffer, which in one context wouldn't normally get much attention, but does get attention in the context of your question, which is sort of forward-looking strategic opportunity. It's worth noting, if we can manage to stay at 3.0, assuming that the framework holds through whatever Basel brings, that will be our buffer in 2026.

當我們今天坐在這裡時，我們比緩衝區高出 170 個基點。重要的是，我們繼續處於 3.0 G-SIB 緩衝區中，在某種情況下通常不會引起太多關注，但在您的問題中確實引起了關注，這是一種前瞻性的策略機會。值得注意的是，如果我們能夠設法保持在 3.0，假設該框架能夠承受巴塞爾帶來的任何影響，那麼這將是我們 2026 年的緩衝。

So we're [170] over, and we accreted $1.5 billion this quarter. External, i.e. inorganic, therefore, is something we can think about. It's just not something we're going to think about in the short term. The reality is we've got our forced hierarchy. The forced hierarchy is dividend first, investing in clients as appropriate, achieving operating returns against that second. And then third, the buyback opportunistically.

所以我們已經[170]結束了，本季我們增加了 15 億美元。因此，外在的，即無機的，是我們可以考慮的。這不是我們短期內會考慮的事情。現實是我們有強制的階級制度。強制等級制度是股利第一，適當投資於客戶，其次才是實現營運回報。第三，機會主義回購。

Down the road, two, three, four years out, if opportunities come across the horizon, importantly, after we have some definition around Basel and continued potential refinement of what we understand to be inside CCAR formulation, so just general regulatory uncertainty, sure, we might look at stuff.

未來，兩年、三年、四年後，如果機會出現，重要的是，在我們對巴塞爾協議有了一些定義並繼續完善我們對CCAR 公式的理解之後，當然，只是一般的監管不確定性，我們可能會看一些東西。

But I would tell you in the short term, we're very happy with the acquisitions that we've made over the last 10, 12 years, and we are determined to generate operating leverage in each of the two major segments, wealth and investment management and the integrated investment bank, and then to obviously hit our efficiency ratios of 70% and the margins and returns that we've talked about.

但我想告訴你，短期內，我們對過去 10 年、12 年進行的收購感到非常滿意，我們決心在財富和投資這兩個主要領域中產生營運槓桿管理和綜合投資銀行，然後明顯達到我們70 %的效率以及我們談到的利潤和回報。

Saul Martinez, HSBC.

索爾·馬丁內斯，匯豐銀行。

So I wanted to follow up on the earlier question on the outlook for your sales and trading businesses. You've kind of consistently done about $18 billion to $20 billion of annual revenue in post-pandemic period in FIC and equities. And right now, we have a backdrop where we're going to see rate cuts. Markets are strong. Issuance activity may pick up. At the same time, you have perhaps more competition from foreign banks who have lost share.

因此，我想跟進之前關於您的銷售和貿易業務前景的問題。在疫情後時期，FIC 和股票的年收入一直在 180 億至 200 億美元左右。現在，我們面臨降息的背景。市場強勁。發行活動可能會回升。同時，你可能會面臨來自失去份額的外資銀行的更多競爭。

So how do you see -- do you have a view on how you see the wallet evolving for these businesses, your ability to maintain or gain share in this backdrop? And I guess ultimately, do you think you can grow revenues here from a base that is materially higher than what it was pre-pandemic?

那麼，您如何看待這些企業的錢包如何演變，以及您在這種背景下維持或獲得份額的能力？我想最終，您認為您可以在大幅高於疫情前的基礎上增加收入嗎？

Yeah. I think the answer to that is that we would like to grow share that is durable. We want to grow share in businesses that are connected to the core client base, whether it be the global asset managers, the leading alternative asset managers, private equity and private credit players that come to the fore, and then our lead corporate and sovereign clients.

是的。我認為答案是我們希望增加持久的份額。我們希望增加與核心客戶群相關的業務份額，無論是全球資產管理公司、領先的另類資產管理公司、脫穎而出的私募股權和私人信貸參與者，還是我們的主要企業和主權客戶。

There are products that can be offered. There are very few firms that can do that globally. We continue to have a world-class markets business, for example, in Asia, where I believe we have the largest equities business. We've been growing the business quite assiduously on the continent in the UK, where our senior management has been putting in a lot of time and attention. And as you know, we have a differentiated joint venture with our friends and partners at MUFG in Tokyo.

有可以提供的產品。全球範圍內能做到這一點的公司很少。我們繼續擁有世界一流的市場業務，例如在亞洲，我相信我們在那裡擁有最大的股票業務。我們一直在英國大陸努力發展業務，我們的高階管理層在那裡投入了大量的時間和精力。如您所知，我們與東京三菱日聯銀行的朋友和合作夥伴建立了一個差異化的合資企業。

So if you consider the global footprint of the firm, in a world that continues to be equities-based, it continues to be an equities world. You see it in the asset price momentum in the US. You see now the potential for that to broaden to more names and more sectors. And that obviously gives opportunity for folks in the stock picking business, for example, where we've been very strong traditionally in equities, to do the cash, derivatives, and prime brokerage suite that we offer.

因此，如果考慮到該公司的全球足跡，在一個仍然以股票為基礎的世界中，它仍然是一個股票世界。你可以從美國的資產價格勢頭中看到這一點。您現在看到了擴展到更多名稱和更多領域的潛力。這顯然為選股業務的人們提供了機會，例如，我們在股票領域傳統上非常強大，可以利用我們提供的現金、衍生性商品和大宗經紀套件。

You could see continued uncertainty based on how the next administration handles the significant macro challenges facing the US, whether you'll see a steeper yield curve where you'll see activity on the front and to the belly of the curve. That of course offers all kinds of opportunities to the rates business and connected to corporate catalyst activity where, on an M&A acquisition, the acquirer may wish to inoculate themselves from rate or foreign exchange risk, and that's a service that we offer.

根據下一屆政府如何應對美國面臨的重大宏觀挑戰，你可能會看到持續的不確定性，是否會看到更陡峭的殖利率曲線，你會看到曲線前端和腹部的活動。當然，這為利率業務提供了各種機會，並與企業催化活動相關，在併購中，收購方可能希望避免利率或外匯風險，這就是我們提供的服務。

Again, I like the idea of growing durably inside the integrated investment bank. I like the idea that we are working in sandboxes with the appropriate capital controls around that, but that we're allowing enough breathing space so that when our lead clients are looking to engage in a once-in-every-few-years catalyst event that we can fully offer the entirety of the advice and financing spectrum to them on demand.

再次，我喜歡在綜合投資銀行內部持久發展的想法。我喜歡這樣的想法，即我們正在沙盒中工作，並對其進行適當的資本管制，但我們允許足夠的喘息空間，以便當我們的主要客戶希望參與每隔幾年一次的催化劑事件時我們可以根據需要向他們提供全面的建議和融資服務。

So the answer would be to grow and grow responsibly. I'd like to think we could inch up the numerator along with the denominator, and that you would see that almost imperceptibly over the course of quarters and years.

所以答案是成長，並且負責任地成長。我想我們可以將分子和分母一起逐漸增大，並且您會在幾個季度和幾年的過程中幾乎不知不覺地看到這一點。

That's helpful. Thank you. Just, I guess, a quick follow-up, related follow-up. The ROE, 14% in ISG in the first half of the year, early on, as you highlighted, in an investment banking cycle. Do you have a view on where the institutional securities ROE can get to as the investment banking cycle kind of plays out? Is there a view on sort of what a normalized ROE would be here?

這很有幫助。謝謝。我想，只是一個快速的後續行動，相關的後續行動。正如您所強調的，今年上半年 ISG 的 ROE 為 14%，處於投資銀行週期的早期。隨著投資銀行週期的展開，您對機構證券股本回報率會達到什麼水準有何看法？對於這裡的標準化 ROE 有何看法？

We're still early. We're still early in the cycle. We're watching it, of course. To the earlier question on when the green shoots come through on the high-margin M&A product, the reality of seasonality, the uncertainty of rate path, geopolitics, US elections. It's hard to put a pin on what the returns will be in a given forward quarter until we kind of see some normalization in those uncertainties, not to mention some of the regulatory stuff that we're dealing with as we speak, Basel, namely.

我們還早。我們仍處於週期的早期。當然，我們正在關注它。對於先前的問題，即高利潤併購產品何時出現萌芽、季節性的現實、利率路徑的不確定性、地緣政治、美國大選。在我們看到這些不確定性出現一定程度的正常化之前，很難確定未來一個季度的回報率，更不用說我們正在處理的一些監管問題了，即巴塞爾。

But yes, you're right to point out that we are seeing some real operating leverage in the investment bank, and over the course of a number of years, as we think about not just the integrated firm, but the returns generated inside of wealth and investment management. And then we look at the returns inside the investment bank, we are measuring that, and we're looking to have that contribute to the overall sustainable 70% efficiency of the firm.

但是，是的，您指出我們在投資銀行中看到了一些實際的營運槓桿，並且在多年來的過程中，我們不僅考慮到綜合公司，還考慮到財富內部產生的回報，這是正確的。投資管理。然後我們看看投資銀行內部的回報，我們正在衡量它，我們希望它有助於公司整體可持續 70% 的效率。

There are no further questions at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you, everyone, for participating. You may now disconnect, and have a great day.

目前沒有其他問題。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。謝謝大家的參與。現在您可以斷開連接，祝您有美好的一天。