Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's presentation of Ericsson's First Quarter 2024 Results. With me today are Börje Ekholm, our President and CEO; and Lars Sandström, Chief Financial Officer.

大家好，歡迎收看今天愛立信 2024 年第一季業績發表會。今天與我在一起的有我們的總裁兼執行長 Börje Ekholm；財務長拉爾斯桑德斯特姆 (Lars Sandström)。

As usual, we'll have a short presentation followed by Q&A. And in order to ask a question, you'll need to join the conference by phone. Details can be found in today's earning release and on the Investor Relations website.

像往常一樣，我們將進行簡短的演示，然後進行問答。為了提出問題，您需要透過電話加入會議。詳細資訊可以在今天的收益報告和投資者關係網站上找到。

Please be advised that today's call is being recorded, and I also need to advise you that today's presentation may include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectations and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. The actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in this conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings report as well as in our annual report.

請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音，我還需要提醒您，今天的演示可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述是基於我們目前的預期和某些計劃假設，這些假設存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的新聞稿中提到的以及本次電話會議中討論的因素，實際結果可能會存在重大差異。我們鼓勵您在我們的收益報告以及年度報告中閱讀有關這些風險和不確定性的信息。

I'll now hand the call over to Börje and to Lars for their introductory comments.

現在我將把電話轉交給 Börje 和 Lars，請他們發表介紹性意見。

Thanks, Daniel, and good morning, everyone. So let me first start off by welcoming my 2 new colleagues: Lars Sandström, our new CFO; as well as Daniel Morris, our new Head of IR. So it's great to have both of you joining the call and being on board at Ericsson, so a big welcome.

謝謝丹尼爾，大家早安。首先，讓我歡迎我的兩位新同事：Lars Sandström，我們的新任財務長；以及我們新任 IR 主管 Daniel Morris。因此，很高興你們倆加入電話會議並加入愛立信，對此表示熱烈歡迎。

So first, I will cover some key highlights from the quarter before Lars goes through the financials in much greater detail. So during Q1, we continued to execute on our strategy to strengthen our leadership in the mobile networks and drive a focused expansion into Enterprise while, of course, continuing to strengthen our culture and operational execution. As expected, our customers remain cautious with their investments, and our organic sales declined and with India slowing following the rapid and unprecedented 5G build-out last year.

首先，在拉斯更詳細地介紹財務數據之前，我將介紹本季的一些關鍵亮點。因此，在第一季度，我們繼續執行我們的策略，以加強我們在行動網路方面的領導地位，並推動重點向企業擴張，同時當然，繼續加強我們的文化和營運執行力。正如預期的那樣，我們的客戶對其投資保持謹慎態度，我們的有機銷售額有所下降，而且印度在去年空前快速的 5G 建設之後也出現了放緩。

We continue to view the level of industry investments that's unsustainably low, but we can't, in reality, impact this in the short term, though what we work on is what we can control, and that's like the commercial and operational discipline and, of course, having a competitive solutions and product portfolio. So despite the market headwind and difficult market conditions, we maintained our market-leading position and delivered a good improvement in gross margin to 42.7%, excluding restructuring charges.

我們仍然認為行業投資水平處於不可持續的低水平，但實際上，我們無法在短期內對此產生影響，儘管我們所做的工作是我們可以控制的，就像商業和營運紀律一樣，當然，擁有有競爭力的解決方案和產品組合。因此，儘管面臨市場逆風和困難的市場條件，我們仍保持了市場領先地位，毛利率大幅提高，達到 42.7%（不包括重組費用）。

For the rest of the year, we expect the mobile networks market to remain weak. External sources estimate that the global RAN market will decline by minus 4%. That looks a bit optimistic to me. However, we see the potential for sales to start to stabilize on a year-over-year basis during the second half. And the reason for that is, of course, that North America investments are expected to grow for the full year 2024, and in the second part of the year, we should start to see the benefit from this. But we will, of course, also see the benefit from the recent contract win we had that we announced in the end of last year.

在今年剩餘時間裡，我們預計行動網路市場將保持疲軟。外部消息人士預計，全球 RAN 市場將下降-4%。對我來說這看起來有點樂觀。然而，我們認為下半年銷售量有可能開始年比穩定。當然，原因是北美投資預計在 2024 年全年都會成長，而在今年下半年，我們應該會開始看到由此帶來的好處。但當然，我們也會看到去年年底宣布的最近贏得的合約帶來的好處。

We continue to be disciplined in our execution, including proactively taking cost savings measures to ensure that we're well positioned to maximize shareholder value when the market ultimately improves. We're still in the early phases of the build-out of 5G, but the improvement in the market will ultimately be in the hands of our customers, and that will happen when traffic grows and new use cases can be launched. So in the meantime, we remain fully focused on manage what's in our control but, at the same time, making the critical investment that reinforces our long-term competitive positioning. And of course, that includes creating the high-performance and programmable networks for the future and exposing their capabilities through a Global Network Platform for network APIs.

我們繼續嚴格執行，包括積極採取成本節約措施，以確保我們能夠在市場最終改善時實現股東價值最大化。我們仍處於 5G 建設的早期階段，但市場的改善最終將掌握在我們客戶的手中，而這將在流量成長和新用例推出時發生。因此，同時，我們仍然完全專注於管理我們控制範圍內的事情，同時進行關鍵投資，以加強我們的長期競爭地位。當然，這包括為未來創建高效能和可編程網絡，並透過網路 API 的全球網路平台展示其功能。

You've seen that revenues in Vonage fell during the quarter, and that's due to the contract loss we had in Q4 but also our decision to reduce our operations in some countries. Of course, we need to prudently manage the current business in Vonage, but our strategic ambition with Vonage is to build up the Global Network Platform. And during the quarter, we took several steps in our strategy execution by announcing partnerships with Verizon, AT&T, AWS and KDDI.

您已經看到，Vonage 的收入在本季度有所下降，這是由於我們在第四季度的合約損失以及我們決定減少在某些國家/地區的業務。當然，我們需要謹慎管理Vonage目前的業務，但我們與Vonage的策略目標是建立全球網路平台。在本季度，我們在策略執行方面採取了多項措施，宣布與 Verizon、AT&T、AWS 和 KDDI 建立合作夥伴關係。

You heard me say this before, but creating this market will take some time, but we're seeing good traction in building the ecosystem, which will ultimately be crucial to drive the next step of digitalization of enterprise and society, leveraging the capabilities of their mobile networks. And 5G is really a platform technology that allows many different use cases that actually build on that technology.

你以前聽過我說過這一點，但是創建這個市場需要一些時間，但我們在構建生態系統方面看到了良好的牽引力，這最終對於推動企業和社會數字化的下一步至關重要，利用他們的能力手機網路。 5G 實際上是一種平台技術，允許許多不同的用例實際上基於該技術構建。

We see very good and solid opportunities on mission-critical networks in many parts of the world. And you have seen that during the quarter, we launched something we call the Ericsson Federal Technologies Group. And that's an activity that we can use to serve the different parts of the U.S. government. And we see this as a very interesting opportunity to expand our market for the 5G technology.

我們在世界許多地方的關鍵任務網絡上看到了非常好的和堅實的機會。您已經看到，在本季度，我們推出了愛立信聯邦技術集團。我們可以利用這項活動為美國政府的不同部門提供服務。我們認為這是一個拓展 5G 技術市場的一個非常有趣的機會。

Let me also briefly touch on the news that our independent monitor has certified our compliance program. This is, of course, a very important step in order to conclude our plea agreement with the DOJ, but our focus on culture and integrity will continue beyond the monitorship.

我還簡要介紹一下我們的獨立監督機構已認證我們的合規計劃的消息。當然，這是我們與司法部達成認罪協議的非常重要的一步，但我們對文化和誠信的關注將繼續超出監督範圍。

So with that, I'd like to pass over to Lars to go through the financial details of the quarter.

因此，我想請 Lars 詳細介紹本季的財務細節。

All right. Thank you, Börje. Let me start by adding a few additional points on the group before we discuss the segments in more detail.

好的。謝謝你，伯傑。在我們更詳細地討論這些部分之前，讓我先在該組中添加一些額外的要點。

In the quarter, we saw an organic sales decline of 14%. This was primarily driven by Networks. In North America, the rate of decline improved in the quarter, and customer inventory levels have now stabilized. As Börje already highlighted, we delivered a good expansion in our gross margin, excluding restructuring charges, with 42.7% in Q1.

本季度，我們的有機銷售額下降了 14%。這主要是由網路驅動的。在北美，本季下降率有所改善，客戶庫存水準現已穩定。正如 Börje 已經強調的那樣，我們的毛利率（不包括重組費用）實現了良好的擴張，第一季為 42.7%。

OpEx, excluding restructuring charges, was down by SEK 0.8 billion in the quarter, with the benefit of our cost saving actions partially offset by higher variable incentives and inflation. We are working to identify additional efficiencies and believe there is more we can do.

本季營運支出（不包括重組費用）下降了 8 億瑞典克朗，但我們成本節約行動帶來的好處被較高的可變激勵措施和通貨膨脹所部分抵消。我們正在努力提高效率，並相信我們可以做更多的事情。

EBITA, excluding restructuring charges, was SEK 5.1 billion in the quarter, with a margin of 9.6%. This included a onetime gain of SEK 1.9 billion from the resolution of a commercial dispute.

該季度的 EBITA（不含重組費用）為 51 億瑞典克朗，利潤率為 9.6%。其中包括透過解決商業糾紛獲得的 19 億瑞典克朗的一次性收益。

With that, let's move to the segments. In Networks, organic sales were down by 19% year-over-year as customers continue to be cautious with their investments and as India slowed as expected, following a rapid 5G build-out last year. Despite this, we generated a strong gross margin, excluding restructuring charges of 44.3%. And this was driven by our competitive product portfolio as well as our actions on costs. Gross margin was also positively impacted by retroactive IPR licensing revenues.

有了這個，讓我們進入細分市場。在網路領域，由於客戶對投資持續持謹慎態度，以及印度繼去年快速建設 5G 之後經濟成長如預期放緩，有機銷售額年減 19%。儘管如此，我們仍取得了強勁的毛利率（扣除重組費用後達到 44.3%）。這是由我們有競爭力的產品組合以及我們的成本行動所推動的。毛利率也受到追溯知識產權授權收入的正面影響。

EBITA, excluding restructuring charges, declined to SEK 4.3 billion compared to SEK 6.4 billion last year, and we reached an EBITA margin of 12.7%. The decrease in EBITA reflects continuous cautious customer investment level across multiple geographies, leading to lower sales and lower gross income. As Börje said, we are taking proactive actions to optimize the business and drive efficiencies, and this is already supporting gross margins and driving down operating expenses.

扣除重組費用後的 EBITA 下降至 43 億瑞典克朗，去年為 64 億瑞典克朗，我們的 EBITA 利潤率為 12.7%。 EBITA 的下降反映了多個地區客戶投資水準持續謹慎，導致銷售和總收入下降。正如 Börje 所說，我們正在採取積極行動來優化業務並提高效率，這已經支撐了毛利率並降低了營運費用。

In segment Cloud Software and Services, we continue to execute on our strategy to strengthen delivery performance and commercial discipline. Organic sales decreased by 2% compared to last year primarily driven by descoping contracts and contract exits in Managed Network Services. While this is impacting the top line, these are strategic actions that will position the segment for attractive profitability levels in the future.

在雲端軟體和服務領域，我們持續執行加強交付績效和商業紀律的策略。與去年相比，有機銷售額下降了 2%，這主要是由於託管網路服務中的合約範圍界定和合約退出所致。雖然這會影響營收，但這些策略行動將使該部門在未來獲得有吸引力的獲利水準。

We delivered a gross margin, excluding restructuring charges of 37.4%, and EBITA margins improved year-on-year for a fifth consecutive quarter. Our IPR revenues grew in the quarter with a new 5G patent license agreement, and we are confident of delivering future growth benefiting from additional 5G agreements and an expansion into additional licensing areas. The time of growth will vary as we seek to optimize the value of new agreements.

我們的毛利率（不包括重組費用）為 37.4%，EBITA 利潤率連續第五個季度同比增長。透過新的 5G 專利授權協議，我們的智慧財產權收入在本季度有所增長，我們有信心透過額外的 5G 協議和擴展到更多授權領域來實現未來的成長。當我們尋求優化新協議的價值時，成長時間將會有所不同。

In Enterprise, sales were broadly stable overall, with growth in Enterprise Wireless Solutions offset by a decline in Global Communication Platform. Sales in Global Communication Platform were negatively impacted by an earlier-announced loss, low-margin customer contract that we lost in Q4 and our decision to reduce our operations in some countries, with the impact expected to continue throughout the year. Gross margin, excluding restructuring charges, increased to 48.1%, with improvements in Enterprise Wireless Solutions and technologies and new businesses.

在企業領域，銷售額整體穩定，企業無線解決方案的成長被全球通訊平台的下降所抵銷。全球通訊平台的銷售受到了我們在第四季度失去的早期宣布的虧損、低利潤客戶合約以及我們決定減少在一些國家/地區業務的負面影響，預計這種影響將持續全年。隨著企業無線解決方案和技術以及新業務的改善，毛利率（不包括重組費用）增加至 48.1%。

Turning to free cash flow, which was SEK 3.7 billion before M&A in the quarter. This strong improvement compared to last year is due to our operational actions on working capital, including lower inventory levels. Cash flow also improved as large customer projects move out of the intense rollout phase, something that affected working capital last year and is now behind us. Variable incentive payments were also lower compared to last year.

談到自由現金流，本季併購前為 37 億瑞典克朗。與去年相比，這項強勁改善歸功於我們在營運資本方面的營運行動，包括降低庫存水準。隨著大型客戶專案結束緊張的推出階段，現金流也有所改善，去年影響營運資金的問題現在已成為過去。與去年相比，可變獎勵金也有所減少。

Net cash increased sequentially by SEK 3 billion to SEK 10.8 billion, driven by positive free cash flow after M&A and the positive exchange rate effect. And we delivered a return on capital employed of 9.2% in the quarter.

受併購後正自由現金流和正匯率效應的推動，淨現金環比增加 30 億瑞典克朗，達到 108 億瑞典克朗。本季我們的已動用資本報酬率為 9.2%。

Next, I will cover the outlook. Turning first to sales where we expect seasonality in mobile networks to be broadly similar in Q2 to what we have seen in the past. In Networks, average seasonality between Q1 and Q2 has been around plus 8% over the last 3 years, and in Cloud Software and Services, it has been around 13% plus.

接下來，我將介紹一下展望。首先轉向銷售，我們預計第二季度行動網路的季節性與我們過去看到的大致相似。在網路領域，過去 3 年第一季和第二季之間的平均季節性成長約為 8% 以上，而在雲端軟體和服務領域，這一數字約為 13% 以上。

For the full year, we expect the RAN market to decline. External sources estimate this decline to be around 4% globally, but as Börje already mentioned, we view this as optimistic. Given our contract win, which will contribute during the second part of the year, we see potential for stabilizing sales on a year-over-year basis during the second half.

就全年而言，我們預計 RAN 市場將會下滑。外部消息來源估計全球下降幅度約為 4%，但正如 Börje 已經提到的，我們認為這是樂觀的。鑑於我們贏得的合約將在今年下半年做出貢獻，我們看到下半年銷售年比穩定的潛力。

In Enterprise, we expect sales in Global Communication Platform to continue to be impacted by the recent low-margin customer loss and our decision to reduce operations in some countries.

在企業方面，我們預計全球通訊平台的銷售將繼續受到近期低利潤客戶流失以及我們減少在一些國家/地區業務的決定的影響。

Next, turning to profitability. In Networks, we expect Q2 gross margin, excluding restructurings, to remain solid between 42% to 44%. Sequential changes will be driven primarily by less favorable market mix compared to Q1, which also benefits from higher IPR revenues. As mentioned before, the benefits from recent contract wins in North America will be seen more in the second half.

接下來，轉向獲利能力。在網路領域，我們預計第二季毛利率（不包括重組）將保持穩定在 42% 至 44% 之間。與第一季相比，後續變化將主要由市場結構較差所驅動，而第一季也受益於智慧財產權收入的增加。如前所述，近期在北美贏得合約的好處將在下半年體現更多。

Regarding OpEx, we expect to see the usual seasonality between Q1 and Q2, which, over the last 3 years, has been an increase of some SEK 1.6 billion. And finally, the further cost actions announced during the quarter will bring additional restructuring costs, which we anticipate will be in the range of SEK 3 billion to SEK 4 billion in 2024. We are in the early stages of discussions with the unions, and we'll update you on timing once those have been progressed.

關於營運支出，我們預計第一季和第二季之間將出現通常的季節性變化，在過去 3 年中，成長了約 16 億瑞典克朗。最後，本季宣布的進一步成本行動將帶來額外的重組成本，我們預計 2024 年該成本將在 30 億至 40 億瑞典克朗之間。進展，我們將通知您最新的時間安排。

With that, I will hand back to you, Börje.

這樣，我就將交還給你，Börje。

Thank you, Lars. Yes, we are facing a tough market environment, but given that, we are laser focused on managing what's in our control through commercial discipline and the strategic actions we're taking, of course, including the cost savings initiatives. We're prudently managing our operations and balance sheet. At the same time, we're focused on executing on our strategy and keeping investments critical to our long-term transformation and future growth intact.

謝謝你，拉爾斯。是的，我們面臨著嚴峻的市場環境，但有鑑於此，我們專注於透過商業紀律和我們正在採取的策略行動來管理我們控制範圍內的內容，當然包括成本節約措施。我們正在謹慎管理我們的營運和資產負債表。同時，我們專注於執行我們的策略，並維持對我們長期轉型和未來成長至關重要的投資。

It's foundational that we maintain our technology and market leadership. We're also focused on taking important step to build a stronger Ericsson for the long term, which will ensure we remain best positioned when the market eventually recovers. In addition to investing in our technology leadership, flexible supply chain and digitalization of Ericsson, we're investing in Enterprise to help generate the meaningful growth the telecom industry needs, including through our Global Network Platform for network APIs.

保持技術和市場領先地位是我們的基礎。我們也致力於採取重要步驟，從長遠來看打造更強大的愛立信，這將確保我們在市場最終復甦時保持最佳地位。除了投資於我們的技術領先地位、靈活的供應鏈和愛立信的數位化之外，我們還投資於 Enterprise，以幫助實現電信行業所需的有意義的成長，包括透過我們的網路 API 全球網路平台。

Creating this new market will take time but will be crucial in the next step of driving digitalization of enterprises as well as society. And our vision to become the leading networks and enterprise platform is unchanged. And as you've seen, we're taking steps to realize these ambitions.

創建這個新市場需要時間，但對於下一步推動企業和社會數位化至關重要。我們成為領先的網路和企業平台的願景沒有改變。正如您所看到的，我們正在採取措施來實現這些雄心壯志。

With this, I think we are ready to take your questions.

至此，我想我們已經準備好回答您的問題了。

Great. Thanks, Börje. (Operator Instructions) So the first question today is going to come from Andreas Joelsson from Carnegie.

偉大的。謝謝，伯傑。 （操作員說明）今天的第一個問題將來自卡內基的 Andreas Joelsson。

Just a little bit curious on the comments into the second half. It seems like you feel that the visibility for the second half is a little bit higher than normal perhaps, given the contract that you have signed. But can you say something more about the rest of North America and the visibility you have on that part, what you build your expectation on the improved stabilization for the second half? That would be great.

只是對下半場的評論有點好奇。考慮到你已經簽署的合同，你似乎覺得下半年的能見度可能比正常情況要高一些。但您能否多介紹一下北美其他地區以及該地區的知名度，您對下半年穩定性改善的期望是什麼？那太好了。

Should I take it?

我該接受嗎？

All right.

好的。

So Andreas, what we see is, in reality, a couple of things going on in North America. The first one is really that inventory levels are stabilizing now and our norm kind of at low levels with our customers. And that gives us more comfort.

安德烈亞斯，我們實際上看到的是北美正在發生的一些事情。第一個是庫存水準現在正在穩定，我們對客戶的標準處於較低水準。這給了我們更多的安慰。

The second thing is, of course, the contract wins that will start to drive meaningful revenues in the second part. And that's what creates the view that we have that we should be able to see a potential for stabilization in the second part of the year on sales.

當然，第二件事是，贏得合約將開始在第二部分帶來有意義的收入。這就是我們認為我們應該能夠看到今年下半年銷售穩定的潛力的原因。

Could I have a follow-up on that maybe on that contract? What has the reaction been from other large customers based on that Open RAN contract?

我可以對該合約進行後續跟進嗎？其他大客戶對 Open RAN 合約有何反應？

It's generating a lot of discussions in the market, and basically with all customers that this is -- and I think we said that already when we announced. It's a bit of an industry-shaping type of contract where the customer, in this case, looks at the total OpEx envelope and the total CapEx envelope and try to optimize the investments in revenue-generating equipment.

它在市場上引起了很多討論，基本上所有客戶都在討論這一點——我想我們在宣布這一消息時已經說過了。這是一種行業塑造型合同，在這種情況下，客戶會查看總營運支出範圍和總資本支出範圍，並嘗試優化創收設備的投資。

So when they look at this, this is starting to drive the similar discussion in many customer interactions. We saw that in Mobile World Congress just a few months ago in the end of February, where this was one of the key discussion items with a number of customers, and we'll see how we can deliver on that going forward, but it puts us in a very interesting position with very interesting discussions with customers.

因此，當他們看到這一點時，這開始在許多客戶互動中引發類似的討論。就在幾個月前的二月底，我們在世界行動通訊大會上看到了這一點，這是與許多客戶討論的關鍵項目之一，我們將看到未來如何實現這一目標，但它提出了我們處於一個非常有趣的位置，與客戶進行了非常有趣的討論。

Thanks for the question, Andreas. We will move to the next question. The next question comes from Francois Bouvignies from UBS.

謝謝你的提問，安德烈亞斯。我們將討論下一個問題。下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的弗朗索瓦·布維尼。

So my question was on the gross margin, which obviously was quite strong this quarter and looking at your Q1 outlook as well, remaining at high level. So maybe what would be helpful is, can you quantify this cost versus mix versus pricing, in a way, giving more visibility into the gross margin trend? And how should we think about the gross margin, therefore, going forward? Do you have a lot of costs to take out still? And that -- so basically, in other words, the sustainability of this gross margin would be very helpful.

所以我的問題是關於毛利率，本季毛利率顯然相當強勁，並且看看第一季的前景，仍保持在高水準。因此，也許有用的是，您能否在某種程度上量化這種成本與組合與定價的關係，從而更清楚地了解毛利率趨勢？因此，我們該如何看待未來的毛利率？您還有很多費用需要扣除嗎？換句話說，基本上，毛利率的可持續性將非常有幫助。

I can start, and then you fill in, Börje. On the gross margin here in Q1, I think it's worth mentioning, there is -- it is -- in basics, it's -- there are no big one-offs. There is one, and that is the IPR agreement that helped the margin a bit in Q1. But otherwise, it's a fairly stable product and market mix. In some areas, you could argue a little bit weaker on the software product mix side. But what we see is a general improvement in our cost structure, supporting margins and also general improvement in margins in several markets and product areas coming through actually.

我可以開始，然後你補充，Börje。關於第一季的毛利率，我認為值得一提的是，從根本上講，沒有大的一次性事件。有一個，那就是智慧財產權協議，它在第一季對利潤率有所幫助。但除此之外，它是一個相當穩定的產品和市場組合。在某些領域，您可能會認為軟體產品組合方面稍弱。但我們看到的是我們的成本結構普遍改善，支撐了利潤率，而且實際上幾個市場和產品領域的利潤率也普遍改善。

So it's -- there is no big swings in the quarter from that perspective. So I think it is the cost reductions that you -- are coming through in a good way. And also what we mentioned here when it comes to commercial discipline to really focus on profitability in our the -- in the business that we conduct.

所以從這個角度來看，本季沒有太大的波動。因此，我認為您正在以良好的方式實現成本削減。還有我們在這裡提到的商業紀律，也就是真正專注於我們所開展業務的獲利能力。

And on your question there on forward, we don't guide, and we give you an outlook for Q2. What we can say on the second half is that we have somewhat support from the market mix, with North America ramping up and India then as a year-over-year comparison coming down somewhat. But that is -- that has some impact but not too much, I would argue still.

關於您提出的問題，我們不提供指導，而是為您提供第二季的展望。我們可以說，下半年我們得到了市場組合的一定支持，北美市場有所成長，而印度市場則是年比有所下降。但我仍然認為，這會產生一些影響，但影響不會太大。

And then on the cost measures, I mean, do you have a lot to potential still to work on? Or where are you in these cost measures in the gross margin?

然後在成本衡量方面，我的意思是，你們還有很多潛力需要努力嗎？或者您在這些成本指標中的毛利率處於什麼位置？

Yes. On the previous program that we have talked about, I think there we are where we -- those are through now and have delivered, and we see that impact. And then what we have announced during Q1 on the additional side that is to support, that will take a bit of time, as you know, when we need to have the union negotiations in place, et cetera. And then it takes a bit of time before it comes through in the result, in the financials.

是的。在我們之前討論過的計劃中，我認為我們已經完成了這些計劃並已經交付，我們看到了這種影響。然後我們在第一季宣布的額外方面是支持，這將需要一些時間，正如你所知，當我們需要進行工會談判等時。然後需要一些時間才能在財務方面得到結果。

We -- just to add, we know from experience also when we do cost initiatives on the -- in cost of sales, it takes a bit of time before it comes through into the P&L. That's why you also see the support from the cost out we did last year coming through now. It takes a bit longer than you would hope sometimes.

我們只是補充一下，我們從經驗中知道，當我們對銷售成本進行成本規劃時，需要一些時間才能計入損益表。這就是為什麼你現在也看到我們去年所做的成本支出所帶來的支持。有時需要的時間比您希望的要長一些。

Thanks for this question, Francois. We'll move on to our next question. So the next question comes from Joachim Gunell at DNB.

謝謝你提出這個問題，弗朗索瓦。我們將繼續討論下一個問題。下一個問題來自 DNB 的 Joachim Gunell。

So just a clarification when it comes to how you've talked about H2 and this stabilization in growth coming from year-over-year declines in H1. Does that -- is this basically supporting your view of the overall Networks market? Or is this also to be seen for you? I mean is this excluding the AT&T contract ramping where you expect more of a flattish development H2? Or is this including that contract?

因此，請澄清一下您如何談論下半年以及上半年同比下降帶來的成長穩定。這是否基本上支持了您對整個網路市場的看法？還是這也是給你看的？我的意思是，這是否不包括 AT&T 合約的增加，您預計下半年的發展會更加持平？或者這是否包括該合約？

If we start with your comment there on stabilization on growth, I think we are not saying stabilization of growth. We are saying stabilization of it in the downgoing market. I think that's worth reminding. And also on the total, where we highlight the external view of minus 4%, which we see -- still see a bit optimistic. So just to get that right. And in this, what we talk about, so saying that is, of course, including the total group, including the rollout of Networks in the U.S.

如果我們從您對成長穩定的評論開始，我認為我們並不是說成長穩定。我們說的是下行市場中的穩定。我認為這一點值得提醒。就總體而言，我們強調外部觀點為-4%，我們認為這一數字仍然有點樂觀。所以只是為了做到這一點。在這一點上，我們所談論的，當然包括整個集團，包括在美國推出網路。

Great. Thanks for the question, Joachim. The next question will come from Sandeep Deshpande at JPMorgan.

偉大的。謝謝你的提問，約阿希姆。下一個問題將由摩根大通的桑迪普·德什潘德提出。

My question is, when you look at North America and your design wins in -- your footprint wins in North America, how do we -- how should we look at them in terms of not only the -- how they're going to ramp up as well as the margin impacts of these wins, whether they will be immediately accretive or they will take time to be accretive to margin?

我的問題是，當你看看北美，你的設計贏得了——你的足跡贏得了北美，我們如何——我們應該如何看待它們，不僅是——它們將如何增長以及這些勝利對利潤的影響，它們是會立即增加還是需要一段時間才能增加利潤？

I think here, it has not a big impact. It's rather stable over the rollout period. It depends a little bit on the work that we conduct during the project phase, and that is plans going on together with the customer now. And so there can be, in some periods, a bit of a weaker margin, and then it's back to normal again for this market. So that -- it is a bit early to say in that sense, and you will -- we will see that paving out. And this is a long-term contract. It's for '24 into '25 and forward as well.

我想在這裡，影響並不大。在推出期間相當穩定。這在一定程度上取決於我們在專案階段進行的工作，即現在與客戶一起進行的計劃。因此，在某些時期，利潤率可能會略有下降，然後該市場又會恢復正常。因此，從這個意義上說還為時過早，我們會看到這一點。這是一份長期合約。適用於 24 世紀到 25 世紀以及以後的情況。

And you're fairly confident this is going to start in the second half of this year?

您相當有信心這會在今年下半年開始嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thanks, Sandeep. So we'll move to the next question. So the next question is coming from Daniel Djurberg from Handelsbanken.

謝謝，桑迪普。那麼我們將轉向下一個問題。下一個問題來自 Handelsbanken 的 Daniel Djurberg。

A question on the IPR run rate, excluding one-offs entering Q2. How large was the catch-up item? And also, if I may, how many of the larger Tier 1 handset OEMs is still about to close 5G? Have you, for example, done the BBK? And also the status of Lenovo would be fine to understand.

關於知識產權運作率的問題，不包括進入第二季的一次性知識產權。追趕項目有多大？另外，請問有多少規模較大的一級手機 OEM 仍即將關閉 5G？例如，您是否完成過 BBK？聯想的地位也很好理解。

On the financials, the run rate coming out of Q1 here is around SEK 12 billion -- sorry, SEK 11 billion. And then what we have said previously is that we are aiming for a full year of around SEK 12 billion to SEK 13 billion, and that remains.

在財務方面，第一季的運行率約為 120 億瑞典克朗——抱歉，是 110 億瑞典克朗。我們之前說過，我們的目標是全年實現 120 億至 130 億瑞典克朗左右的目標，這一目標仍然存在。

Perfect. Is it -- yes, sorry.

完美的。是嗎——是的，抱歉。

A couple of the big handset vendors still remain unlicensed. And you know we have a litigation ongoing with one of them you mentioned. So we can't comment really on where that is right now.

一些大型手機供應商仍然沒有獲得許可。你知道我們正在與你提到的其中一個進行訴訟。所以我們現在無法評論具體情況。

Yes. Just a super first follow-up on the nonrecurring item of SEK 1.9 billion. It was a noncash, it seems, but it was a commercial dispute resolution. Why is it not cash flow impacting?

是的。這只是 19 億瑞典克朗的非經常性項目的超級首次後續行動。這似乎是一種非現金，但它是一種商業糾紛解決方案。為什麼現金流不受影響？

It will be cash flow impacting in Q2.

第二季的影響將是現金流。

Great. Thanks for the question, Daniel. We'll move to the next question. So that's coming from Joe Zhou at Barclays.

偉大的。謝謝你的提問，丹尼爾。我們將轉向下一個問題。這是巴克萊銀行的 Joe Zhou 說的話。

I have 2. I'll go one at a time. So firstly, just to understand, in the second half, you mentioned stabilization, but it just seems sort of the quarterly phasing of it. Are we expecting to see still some contraction in Q3 before improving year-on-year in Q4? That's my first question.

我有2個。首先，我想了解一下，在下半年，您提到了穩定，但這似乎只是按季度分階段進行。在第四季同比改善之前，我們是否預期第三季仍會出現一些收縮？這是我的第一個問題。

I think I understand your question. But as you know, we have large project deliveries coming in. And if they end up in a quarter or the next quarter, it's always very difficult to exactly pinpoint that. So we will -- that's why we keep to explaining the second half of the year only.

我想我理解你的問題。但如您所知，我們有大型專案交付。所以我們會——這就是為什麼我們只繼續解釋今年下半年的原因。

Okay. And then my second question is just on the free cash flow. And this quarter, there is quite a meaningful boost from contract liabilities, so the SEK 6.5 billion. And I understand most of that typically is customer advances. And can you just give us some more color on why is that -- do you have that kind of increase? Because that can't be explained all by the IPR payments just by looking at the magnitude and looking going forward as well.

好的。我的第二個問題是關於自由現金流。本季度，合約負債顯著增加，達到 65 億瑞典克朗。據我了解，其中大部分通常是客戶預付款。您能否給我們更多的資訊來解釋為什麼會這樣——您有這種增長嗎？因為這不能僅僅透過知識產權支付來解釋其規模並展望未來。

Yes. I think impacting the working capital is, as I mentioned, we have a reduction in inventories supporting. We also have a significant lower paying out on the incentives this year compared to last year. And then, of course, the whole contract ramp-up that we had last year. So those are, I'd say, the 3 big components impacting working capital year-over-year.

是的。正如我所提到的，我認為影響營運資金的是我們支持庫存的減少。與去年相比，我們今年的激勵措施支出也顯著降低。當然，還有去年我們的整個合約的增加。我想說，這些都是逐年影響營運資本的三大因素。

Yes. Sorry, I get the inventory going down, but contract liabilities is a separate thing. It's just that specific item. It's been building up again, I think, following like 3 or 4 quarter declines. So I just wonder, what is driving that?

是的。抱歉，我的庫存有所下降，但合約負債是另一回事。這只是那個特定的項目。我認為，在經歷了三、四個季度的下降之後，它又開始回升了。所以我只是想知道，是什麼推動了這一點？

I think you have -- let me get back on the details, and I'm happy to do that. But the main 3 impacts are what I said. It's inventories, it's the lower incentive payout and then the whole contract rollout that we had last year. So those are the main items. But I think we are happy to reach out to you to give more insights into the different parts.

我想你已經——讓我回顧一下細節，我很高興這樣做。但主要的3個影響就是我說的。這是庫存，是較低的激勵支出，然後是我們去年的整個合約推出。這些是主要項目。但我認為我們很高興與您聯繫，以提供有關不同部分的更多見解。

Thanks, Joe. Moving to the next question. Next question is coming from Sébastien Sztabowicz at Kepler Cheuvreux.

謝謝，喬。轉到下一個問題。下一個問題來自 Kepler Cheuvreux 的 Sébastien Sztabowicz。

On Vonage, the business is now down by 5% year-on-year in Q1, and the group is trending well behind your and our initial expectations. Are you taking any specific actions to support sales in the coming quarters? And coming back to this, I would say, activities in some countries that you are reducing, what are the reasons behind that exactly? What is happening in those countries with Vonage?

在 Vonage 上，第一季的業務年減了 5%，集團的趨勢遠遠落後於您和我們的最初預期。您是否會採取任何具體行動來支持未來幾季的銷售？回到這個問題，我想說的是，你們正在減少在一些國家的活動，背後的具體原因是什麼？ Vonage 的那些國家正在發生什麼事？

Yes. As you saw and as you mentioned there, Vonage is down. And as we mentioned, it is a loss of contract that we had last year in Q4. And also that we look at the different markets where it makes commercial sense to invest. And in some markets, we have said that we reduced our activities there and focus on more of the growth areas where we see there is a better opportunity. And I think there, it is really we are focusing on the long-term investments here to drive this part of the industry.

是的。正如您所看到的以及您在那裡提到的，Vonage 已經關閉。正如我們所提到的，這是我們去年第四季的合約損失。此外，我們也關注具有投資商業意義的不同市場。在一些市場，我們已經說過，我們減少了在那裡的活動，並將重點放在我們認為有更好機會的更多成長領域。我認為，我們確實專注於長期投資，以推動這部分產業的發展。

Yes. As I said, Sébastien, it's, in reality, our focus is on driving the Global Network Platform for network APIs. That's where we are tremendously focused. We're trying to, of course, manage the current business as prudently as possible, but it's really the focus on executing the strategic rationale behind the acquisition. That's our key focus. And that's where we allocate most of the time. And that's where we are starting to get the traction. We had DT in the end of last year, followed by Verizon, AT&T, KDDI and AWS now in the first quarter. We're trying to shape that ecosystem. That's really where the criticality is.

是的。正如我所說，Sébastien，實際上，我們的重點是推動網路 API 的全球網路平台。這就是我們非常關注的地方。當然，我們正在努力盡可能謹慎地管理當前業務，但這實際上是執行收購背後的策略原則的重點。這是我們的重點。這就是我們分配大部分時間的地方。這就是我們開始受到關注的地方。我們在去年年底推出了 DT，隨後在第一季推出了 Verizon、AT&T、KDDI 和 AWS。我們正在努力塑造這個生態系統。這確實是關鍵所在。

We see good commercial traction. But when do you expect more sizable revenue to be recognized on network APIs? It is 1-year horizon or more 3- to 5-year horizon for network APIs?

我們看到了良好的商業吸引力。但您預計何時會在網路 API 上實現更可觀的收入呢？網路 API 的期限是 1 年還是 3 至 5 年？

I think the reality here is it's going to be the next 1 to 2 years when this market will be shaped. That's really where our focus is. Then I think we'll see a longer-term growth as applications start to develop and use cases start to develop. But to get this first traction, it's about creating that market. That's why it's so important, of course, to get operators in, but it's equally important to get application developers, digital natives starting to use what's available.

我認為現實情況是，這個市場將在未來一到兩年內形成。這確實是我們的重點。然後我認為，隨著應用程式開始開發和用例開始開發，我們將看到更長期的成長。但要獲得最初的吸引力，就必須創造這個市場。當然，這就是為什麼讓營運商參與如此重要，但讓應用程式開發人員、數位原住民開始使用可用的東西也同樣重要。

And we see actually an interest now from developers, from the hyperscalers about how do we shape this market, how do we create the applications of the future. It's really up to us now to deliver on that. And that's really where our focus is.

我們現在實際上看到開發人員和超大規模企業對我們如何塑造這個市場、如何創建未來的應用程式感興趣。現在真的取決於我們來實現這一目標。這確實是我們關注的焦點。

Thanks, Sébastien, So just turning to the next question. The next question will come from Erik Rojestal from SEB.

謝謝，塞巴斯蒂安，所以現在轉向下一個問題。下一個問題將由 SEB 的 Erik Rojestal 提出。

So you announced some further cost measures here with a headcount reduction of 1,200 in Sweden. I mean is it possible to quantify what sort of impact you expect to see from this? And when do you expect it to start contributing?

因此，你們宣布了一些進一步的成本措施，瑞典的員工人數減少了 1,200 人。我的意思是，是否可以量化您期望從中看到什麼樣的影響？您預計它什麼時候開始做出貢獻？

All right. Thanks, Erik. As we said, we -- in the outlook here, we see restructuring costs for the full year of SEK 3 billion to SEK 4 billion. And how do we -- normally, we are in the negotiations now in Sweden, and we are looking into more countries as we also have mentioned, and that it always takes a bit of time before it comes through depending on the market and what activities we do.

好的。謝謝，埃里克。正如我們所說，在展望中，我們預計全年重組成本為 30 億至 40 億瑞典克朗。我們如何——通常情況下，我們現在正在瑞典進行談判，正如我們也提到的那樣，我們正在研究更多的國家，並且根據市場和活動，它總是需要一些時間才能完成。

So we will not see too much of that impact until the end of the year, I would expect, as it looks now. But depending on how we are progressing, and we will update you continuously on this in the coming quarter as well to give you more insights on this topic.

因此，我預計，正如現在看來，直到今年年底，我們才會看到太多的影響。但具體取決於我們的進展情況，我們將在下個季度不斷向您更新相關信息，並為您提供有關此主題的更多見解。

Thanks for the question, Erik. Turning to the next question, we have Felix Henderson (sic) [Henriksson] from Nordea.

謝謝你的提問，艾瑞克。轉向下一個問題，我們有來自 Nordea 的 Felix Henderson（原文如此）[Henriksson]。

Felix Henriksson from Nordea. I wanted to ask about the free cash flow trajectory moving into the right direction during Q1. So just on the phasing for the rest of 2024, given the sort of working capital release that you expect to witness in India. And also given these additional restructuring charges that you've communicated, how should we think about the free cash flow trajectory for the rest of the year?

來自 Nordea 的 Felix Henriksson。我想問第一季自由現金流軌跡是否朝著正確的方向發展。因此，考慮到您預計在印度看到的營運資金釋放情況，我們將在 2024 年剩餘時間內分階段進行。考慮到您傳達的這些額外重組費用，我們應該如何考慮今年剩餘時間的自由現金流軌跡？

I think as I mentioned there before, the working capital buildup we had last year also came down at the end of Q4. So we will have some support on that also this year. We have part of it now and that -- so there will not be a very big impact for -- coming for the rest of the year from that part. Then, of course, we have a continuous focus on working capital for the rest of the year. And of course, as you know, the most important part of the cash flow is EBITA and the result before working capital.

我認為正如我之前提到的，我們去年的營運資本累積也在第四季末有所下降。因此，今年我們也會在這方面獲得一些支持。我們現在已經掌握了其中的一部分，因此，在今年剩餘時間裡，這部分不會產生很大的影響。當然，我們在今年剩餘時間將持續關注營運資金。當然，如您所知，現金流中最重要的部分是 EBITA 和營運資金之前的結果。

Perfect. And as a quick follow-up, could you perhaps clarify that -- which market do you think that Dell'Oro is too optimistic about in the sort of minus 4% global RAN market forecast for this year?

完美的。作為快速跟進，您能否澄清一下——在今年全球 RAN 市場預測為負 4% 的情況下，您認為 Dell'Oro 對哪個市場過於樂觀？

No, we don't go into the different markets as such. What we say is that the total decline of 4% is a bit optimistic as we see it now.

不，我們不會進入不同的市場。我們想說的是，4%的總跌幅在我們現在看來有點樂觀。

Thanks for the question, Felix. Moving on to the next, we have Sami Sarkamies at Danske Bank.

謝謝你的提問，菲利克斯。接下來是丹斯克銀行的薩米‧薩卡米斯 (Sami Sarkamies)。

I would still like to dig a bit deeper into the new cost program. So could you provide some kind of split between COGS and OpEx, the total savings target and maybe mention a couple of areas where you're able to find new savings on top of the measures that you implemented last year?

我仍然想更深入地了解新的成本計劃。那麼，您能否提供 COGS 和營運支出之間的某種劃分、總節省目標，並可能提及在去年實施的措施之外您能夠找到新的節省的幾個領域？

I think I cannot give you a split between COGS and OpEx there. We are identifying different areas, but it's in both, for sure. And it is mainly -- or to large extent, it's related to people costs, both employees but also consultants that we have in the group. And then to some extent, they can be connected to real estate savings, et cetera. So those are sort of the key areas. But these are targeted structured plans that we are setting up, and I think we are happy to come back as they progress and when we do the restructuring to share more on what we are doing there.

我想我不能給你區分 COGS 和 OpEx。我們正在確定不同的領域，但可以肯定的是，這兩個領域都是如此。這主要——或者在很大程度上，與人員成本有關，包括我們集團中的員工和顧問。然後在某種程度上，它們可以與房地產儲蓄等相關。所以這些都是關鍵領域。但這些是我們正在製定的有針對性的結構化計劃，我認為我們很高興隨著這些計劃的進展以及當我們進行重組時回來分享更多我們正在做的事情。

And I think -- so one thing to add there, Sami, is that, we like also to get into more of a habit of continuous improvement to actually take cost out continuously rather than think about this as programs. The problem, and you know that from different countries and primarily Europe, it becomes -- when you consolidate, it becomes a large number, and that's why we felt it was appropriate to communicate the Swedish number not to avoid speculation. But in reality, this is going to be part of driving a continuous focus on efficiency. But we're taking out some activities as well, which includes focusing the product portfolio a bit more and things like that.

我認為，薩米，要補充的一件事是，我們也喜歡養成持續改進的習慣，以實際不斷地降低成本，而不是將其視為計劃。這個問題，你知道，來自不同的國家，主要是歐洲，當你合併時，它會變成一個很大的數字，這就是為什麼我們認為傳達瑞典的數字是適當的，以避免猜測。但實際上，這將成為推動持續關注效率的一部分。但我們也正在進行一些活動，其中包括更多關注產品組合之類的事情。

Thanks for the question, Sami. So the final question today comes from Richard Kramer at Arete.

謝謝你的提問，薩米。今天的最後一個問題來自 Arete 的 Richard Kramer。

Börje, I guess just to wrap up, we've heard you talking for many years now about rising traffic and underinvestment by your large customers. You specifically noted that in Europe, where we have a number of consolidations underway. What do you think unlocks that? I mean what are you looking for with your customers to say or to show that they're going to be willing to spend more? Because right now, it just feels like the business is drifting without a catalyst for increased spending by those customers. Is there anything you can point to in the second half of the year or into 2025 that's going to force the issue and raise those relatively low spending levels?

Börje，我想總結一下，我們多年來一直聽到您談論流量增加和大客戶投資不足的問題。您特別指出，在歐洲，我們正在進行一些整合。您認為什麼可以解鎖？我的意思是，您希望向客戶表達什麼或表明他們願意花更多錢？因為現在，感覺業務正在漂移，沒有催化劑來增加這些客戶的支出。您能否指出，在今年下半年或 2025 年，有什麼事情會迫使這個問題發生並提高相對較低的支出水準？

Thanks, Richard. That's the -- you're asking the right question. I mean the reality is we see the traffic growth in the networks continues. And you start to see -- in many markets, not singling out anyone specifically, but you're starting to see congested networks, which means that when it's crowded, you're in a crowded space. You may actually get the signal, but you can't really use it. You have simply no capacity left in the network. We're starting to see those signs. We start to see signs that sites are congested.

謝謝，理查。這就是——你問了正確的問題。我的意思是，現實是我們看到網路流量持續成長。你開始看到——在許多市場中，並不是專門挑出任何人，但你開始看到擁擠的網絡，這意味著當擁擠時，你就處於擁擠的空間。您可能實際上收到了信號，但無法真正使用它。您的網路中根本沒有剩餘容量。我們開始看到這些跡象。我們開始看到站點擁擠的跡象。

At the same time, the industry has a problem with return on investments. And that's why I think personally we need to see in-market consolidation actually start to happening and start to get approved. When that happens, we will get bigger scale. And it's interesting, when you look at this from a global perspective, the average European operator is about 4.5 million subscribers. It's [95 million], I believe, in the U.S., [300 million] in India, [400 million] in China. So the scale in Europe is simply too small. So there is consolidation needed.

同時，該產業也存在投資回報問題。這就是為什麼我個人認為我們需要看到市場整合真正開始發生並開始獲得批准。當這種情況發生時，我們的規模將會更大。有趣的是，從全球角度來看，歐洲營運商的平均用戶數約為 450 萬。我相信，美國是[9500萬]，印度是[3億]，中國是[4億]。所以歐洲的規模實在太小了。因此需要進行整合。

The second part that needs to happen, and that's what we try to do with the Global Network Platform for network APIs, is actually to change the pricing model in the industry. So today, you have a pricing model on almost, call it, a monthly subscription. And that monthly subscription is kind of decoupled from network traffic, network investments, et cetera, putting actually a squeeze on the profitability in an operator. What we need to see happening to unlock investments is that you're able to monetize the network features. And that -- think about it as speed, latency, could be location, could be different quality of service or differentiated experiences. You can offer network slicing, for example.

需要發生的第二部分，也就是我們嘗試透過網路 API 全球網路平台做的事情，實際上是改變產業的定價模式。所以今天，你有一個幾乎可以稱之為每月訂閱的定價模式。而且按月訂閱在某種程度上與網路流量、網路投資等脫鉤，這實際上擠壓了營運商的獲利能力。為了解鎖投資，我們需要看到的是您能夠透過網路功能獲利。可以將其視為速度、延遲、位置、不同的服務品質或差異化體驗。例如，您可以提供網路切片。

We need to define that new type of use cases that unlocks those revenue streams. Otherwise, the customers, our operators, they're not going to see growing revenues. And if they don't see growing revenues, they're not going to invest. That's the perfect rational decision. So I think we have that, call it, opportunity or maybe responsibility to create those new type of revenues coming out of leverage in the 5G technology in a better way. That's why you see our investments on the Enterprise side being so important.

我們需要定義能夠釋放這些收入流的新型用例。否則，客戶、我們的業者將不會看到收入成長。如果他們看不到收入成長，他們就不會投資。這是一個完美的理性決定。因此，我認為我們有機會或責任以更好的方式利用 5G 技術創造新型收入。這就是為什麼您認為我們在企業方面的投資如此重要。

Super. Thanks, Richard. Thanks, Börje, Lars. And this concludes the call for today. Thanks, everyone, for joining us.

極好的。謝謝，理查。謝謝，伯耶，拉爾斯。今天的電話會議到此結束。謝謝大家加入我們。