Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Ericsson's third-quarter 2024 results. With me here in the studio today are Borje Ekholm, President and CEO; and our CFO, Lars Sandström. As usual, we'll have a short presentation followed by Q&A. (Event Instructions)

大家好，歡迎收聽愛立信2024年第三季業績發表會。今天和我一起來到攝影棚的是總裁兼執行長 Borje Ekholm；以及我們的財務長 Lars Sandstrom。像往常一樣，我們將進行簡短的演示，然後進行問答。 （活動須知）

Details can be found in today's earning's release and on the Investor Relations website. Please be advised that today's call is being recorded and that today's presentation may include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectations and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. The actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in this conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings report as well as in our annual report.

詳細資訊可以在今天的財報發布和投資者關係網站上找到。請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音，並且今天的演示可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述是基於我們目前的預期和某些計劃假設，這些假設存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的新聞稿中提到的以及本次電話會議中討論的因素，實際結果可能會存在重大差異。我們鼓勵您在我們的收益報告以及年度報告中閱讀有關這些風險和不確定性的信息。

I'll now hand the call over to Borje and Lars for their introductory comments.

現在我將把電話轉給 Borje 和 Lars，請他們發表介紹性意見。

Thank you, Daniel. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this earnings call for third quarter. So we delivered a solid Q3 marked by a period of intense focus on strategic and operational execution. But let me start by commenting on our strategy, which aims at building the networks or the future, which will deliver differentiated performance through programmable networks.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。大家早安，歡迎參加第三季的財報電話會議。因此，我們在第三季度取得了堅實的業績，其特點是一段時期對策略和營運執行的高度關注。但首先讓我評論一下我們的策略，該策略旨在建立網路或未來，透過可編程網路提供差異化的效能。

So these programmable networks will enable applications that can be monetized in new ways where differentiated performance matters. This means creating new use cases for mobile technology, expanding beyond the best effort consumer mobile broadband. And I would include new use cases as enterprise at mission critical. And this will also enable our operator customers to add new revenue streams beyond the current best effort consumer broadband offerings.

因此，這些可編程網路將使應用程式能夠以新的方式貨幣化，其中差異化的效能很重要。這意味著為行動技術創造新的用例，超越盡力而為的消費者行動寬頻。我會將新的用例納入關鍵任務的企業中。這也將使我們的營運商客戶能夠在當前盡力而為的消費者寬頻產品之外增加新的收入來源。

I think this is crucial for the industry's long-term growth. Many analysts predict a slow market over the next few years, but this is largely only taking the consumer mobile broadband business into consideration. However, we see a significant untapped market opportunity in new use cases that are often overlooked as today require differentiated performance and have largely not generated revenues to date.

我認為這對於產業的長期發展至關重要。許多分析師預測未來幾年市場將放緩，但這很大程度上只是考慮到消費者行動寬頻業務。然而，我們在新用例中看到了一個重要的未開發市場機會，這些機會經常被忽視，因為今天需要差異化的效能，並且迄今為止基本上沒有產生收入。

So our strategy is focused on leveraging these opportunities to drive growth in the mobile networks market. And we're increasingly seeing momentum with many customers around the world on high performance programmable network, and I would say that's very encouraging. Of course, the contract we signed last year with AT&T was the first proof point. And it also created the initial groundwork for the accelerating interest that we're seeing now. But the interest in differentiated performance has also increased following our announcement of the JV with 12 global CSPs to aggregate and sell network APIs. And I think this is a critical step for the industry to realize the benefits of the full capabilities of 5G.

因此，我們的策略重點是利用這些機會來推動行動網路市場的成長。我們越來越多地看到世界各地許多客戶在高效能可編程網路上的勢頭，我想說這是非常令人鼓舞的。當然，我們去年與AT&T簽訂的合約就是第一個證明。它也為我們現在看到的日益濃厚的興趣奠定了初步基礎。但在我們宣布與 12 個全球 CSP 建立合資企業以聚合和銷售網路 API 後，人們對差異化效能的興趣也有所增加。我認為這是業界實現 5G 全部功能優勢的關鍵一步。

I'll come back to the strategic steps in a little bit more of details but let me first touch briefly upon the Q3 results. So we continue to see a very challenged market development. The market is ultimately decided by our customers. So in that context, it's critical that we focus on what we can impact, and that's really how we run our business.

我將詳細介紹戰略步驟，但首先讓我簡要介紹一下第三季的結果。因此，我們繼續看到市場發展充滿挑戰。市場最終是由客戶決定的。因此，在這種情況下，我們必須專注於我們能夠影響的事情，這才是我們經營業務的真正方式。

So we saw, in Q3, organic sales declined by 1%. That's less than it was the quarter before so we can gradually see an improvement in our development. And that was really a strong performance in North America that helped in the quarter. Of course, we had negative developments in most other geographies.

所以我們看到，在第三季度，有機銷售額下降了 1%。這比上一季少，所以我們可以逐漸看到我們的發展有所改善。北美地區的強勁表現確實對本季有所幫助。當然，我們在大多數其他地區都出現了負面的發展。

When we look at gross margin, we delivered a solid performance coming in at 46.3%, reflecting significant momentum from our 39.2% in Q3 last year. This is driven by, of course, the market mix shift with North America coming in strong, higher IPR sales. But I would also say key contributor is how we continuously optimize our business. And these are efforts that we started to implement a few years back, and it takes some time to get it through.

從毛利率來看，我們的業績表現穩健，達到 46.3%，反映出去年第三季 39.2% 的強勁勢頭。當然，這是由市場結構轉變所推動的，北美智慧財產權銷售強勁、更高。但我還想說，關鍵貢獻者是我們如何不斷優化我們的業務。這些都是我們幾年前就開始實施的努力，需要一些時間才能完成。

And now in Q3, we start to see the results of this. And we see it in lower scrap levels, better inventory levels, better efficiency in how we run the company. So with these improvements, of course, driving higher gross income, EBITA grew to SEK7.8 billion compared to SEK4.7 billion last year. But I think another good indicator is, of course, the free cash flow, which came in at SEK12.9 billion.

現在在第三季度，我們開始看到結果。我們在更低的廢品水準、更好的庫存水準以及更高的公司營運效率中看到了這一點。因此，隨著這些改進，當然會推動更高的總收入，EBITA 增加到 78 億瑞典克朗，去年為 47 億瑞典克朗。但我認為另一個好的指標當然是自由現金流，為 129 億瑞典克朗。

I would say, in summary, these results show strong underlying business we have as well as the effects from the strategic actions that we have been taken. Lars will go through this number shortly in much greater detail but let me first comment briefly on the market development.

總而言之，我想說，這些結果顯示了我們擁有強大的基礎業務以及我們所採取的策略行動的效果。拉斯將很快更詳細地討論這個數字，但讓我先簡要地評論一下市場發展。

So in Q3, the global RAN market remained challenged as we have said. However, we continue to leverage our technology leadership, and we've seen contract wins in India and Vietnam among others. North America continue to be very strong and grew by 55% year over year, driven by and helped by strong deliveries related to our recent AT&T contract win. That's now coming into delivery phase, but we also see selective network investments by other large customers.

因此，正如我們所說，第三季全球 RAN 市場仍然面臨挑戰。然而，我們繼續利用我們的技術領先地位，並且我們在印度和越南等地贏得了合約。在我們最近贏得 AT&T 合約相關的強勁交付的推動和幫助下，北美市場繼續表現強勁，同比增長 55%。現在已進入交付階段，但我們也看到其他大客戶有選擇性的網路投資。

In Europe and Latin America, sales increased slightly and grew by 1% as growth in Europe was partially offset by decline in Latin America where we had some footprint losses. In Southeast Asia, Oceania and India, sales decreased by 43% following a normalization and following, I will say, even unexpected normalization in India compared to the record-pace 5G rollout of last year. And finally, trends in Northeast Asia and Middle East and Africa weakened during the quarter due to a significant slowdown in customer investments.

在歐洲和拉丁美洲，銷售額略有成長，成長了 1%，因為歐洲的成長被拉丁美洲的下滑所部分抵消，而我們在拉丁美洲的足跡則減少。在東南亞、大洋洲和印度，在實現正常化後銷售額下降了 43%，而且與去年創紀錄的 5G 部署速度相比，印度也出現了意想不到的正常化。最後，由於客戶投資大幅放緩，本季東北亞、中東和非洲的趨勢減弱。

Let me comment some more on the recent strategic steps we've been taking in our enterprise business. As I said, our strategy aims at creating additional use cases and monetization for the networks. And we're pursuing multiple opportunities that will open the network for new revenue streams and think about them here as fixed wireless access mission critical, but also of enterprise applications.

讓我更評論一下我們最近在企業業務中採取的策略步驟。正如我所說，我們的策略旨在為網路創建更多用例和貨幣化。我們正在尋求多種機會，為網路開闢新的收入來源，並將它們視為固定無線存取任務的關鍵，同時也是企業應用程式。

We see enterprise as a key opportunity as they will require high-performance and differentiated connectivity to fully digitalized. And despite the near-term pressure on our enterprise sales, which we're working proactively to address, we remain focused on strengthening Ericsson for the long term. In Q3, we have taken some key steps to execute on this part of the strategy.

我們將企業視為一個關鍵機遇，因為他們需要高效能和差異化連接才能完全數位化。儘管我們的企業銷售近期面臨壓力（我們正在積極努力解決這個問題），但我們仍然致力於長期加強愛立信的實力。在第三季度，我們採取了一些關鍵步驟來執行這部分策略。

Maybe just as a short step back, we also agreed the sale of iconectiv during Q3, which is subject to regulatory approval now. And the reason for that divestiture as it will allow us to streamline the business, focus on the core opportunities at hand and really maximize the strategic positioning of our portfolio. But I would also say, one of the most important announcement for the creation of our enterprise area was the JV that we announced together with some of the largest operators in the world to aggregate and sell network APIs and hear Vonage will play a key role.

也許只是退一步，我們還同意在第三季出售 iconectiv，目前尚待監管部門批准。剝離的原因是，它將使我們能夠簡化業務，專注於手頭上的核心機會，並真正最大化我們投資組合的策略定位。但我還要說，創建我們的企業領域最重要的公告之一是我們與世界上一些最大的運營商一起宣布成立合資企業，以聚合和銷售網絡 API，聽說 Vonage 將發揮關鍵作用。

We see network APIs as one of the best opportunities to enable additional network monetization as it will basically open up the network and its unique features to innovation in a completely new way. So for example, here, think about increased security and financial transaction or 3D positioning in the logistics chain. These are just two examples, but there are going to be a number of new potential use cases for network APIs. We're going to see some earlier and followed by more over time.

我們認為網路 API 是實現額外網路貨幣化的最佳機會之一，因為它基本上將以全新的方式開放網路及其獨特的功能以進行創新。例如，在這裡，考慮增加物流鏈中的安全性和金融交易或 3D 定位。這只是兩個例子，但網路 API 將會出現許多新的潛在用例。我們會更早看到一些，隨著時間的推移，還會看到更多。

But in order to scale the network, API is really critical to solve the supply side or the availability of network API. And if we look pre the JV, so in the call it the current shape, each developer in the world would have to integrate and contract with hundreds of individual CSPs around the world. Of course, that's not even practical, and it's not going to be economical. And when it's neither practical nor economical, it will basically not happen.

但為了擴展網絡，API確實非常關鍵，解決供應方或網路API的可用性。如果我們看看合資企業之前的情況，那麼就目前的情況而言，世界上的每個開發商都必須與世界各地數百個單獨的 CSP 整合並簽訂合約。當然，這不切實際，也不經濟。而當既不實用又不經濟的時候，基本上就不會發生。

So with the JV, we actually remove a key hurdle in order to speed up the pace of digitalization and to accelerate the growth of network APIs globally. Because this will allow global developer community access to networks features similar to the way they access communication APIs today. So now it will be much easier for the developers to use and start to leverage and implement the network APIs and the capabilities that only the network can allow. So from a strategic point of view, I think this is a critical step for us to take.

因此，透過合資企業，我們實際上消除了一個關鍵障礙，以加快數位化的步伐並加速全球網路 API 的成長。因為這將允許全球開發者社群存取網路功能，就像他們今天存取通訊 API 的方式一樣。因此，現在開發人員將更容易使用並開始利用和實現網路 API 以及只有網路才能允許的功能。所以從策略角度來看，我認為這是我們要採取的關鍵一步。

You know, in the history, a developer actually needed to be a network engineers as well. They needed to understand how our network works, what it can do, and how it can be kind of accessed. That's not needed anymore. Now it becomes a much easier to use a very simple access. So it's easy to use, easy to consume, and easy to pay for network API.

要知道，在歷史上，開發人員其實也需要成為網路工程師。他們需要了解我們的網路如何運作、可以做什麼以及如何存取它。那就不再需要了。現在使用非常簡單的存取變得更加容易。所以網路API易於使用、易於消費、易於支付。

We think this is a massive opportunity. External estimates, say the API market could be $10 billion to $ 30 billion opportunity in a few years out. I think it's still too early to appropriately size the opportunity, but it's encouraging to see the growing momentum and the growing interest. And we're starting to see some frontrunner markets and emerging interest for the network API. So this is a market that shaping up and we have the opportunity to shape that.

我們認為這是一個巨大的機會。外部估計稱，幾年後 API 市場可能會帶來 100 億至 300 億美元的機會。我認為現在適當調整機會大小還為時過早，但看到不斷增長的勢頭和日益增長的興趣是令人鼓舞的。我們開始看到一些領先市場以及人們對網路 API 的興趣。所以這是一個正在形成的市場，我們有機會塑造它。

But we can also see there are many opportunities here to drive enterprise digitalization in new ways where we can leverage the capabilities of the mobile network. And that will allow our operator customers to basically a new type of market for enterprise digitalization. That's outside of the consumer mobile broadband market, and that's for sure going to be multiples of the network API market in totality.

但我們也可以看到，這裡有很多機會以新的方式推動企業數位化，我們可以利用行動網路的功能。這將使我們的營運商客戶基本上進入企業數位化的新型市場。這不屬於消費者行動寬頻市場，而且肯定是網路 API 市場總量的倍數。

But now let me also comment very quickly on the strategic steps we've taken in Enterprise Wireless Solutions. In this area, we're developing easy to use solutions so enterprise can capitalize on the security, efficiency, and flexibility of using cellular connectivity instead of WiFi. These dedicated networks are transitioning now from what I would call a POC or proof of concept market to commercial scale deployments. And over time, this will help reaccelerate the growth in Enterprise Wireless Solutions.

但現在讓我快速評論一下我們在企業無線解決方案中採取的策略步驟。在這一領域，我們正在開發易於使用的解決方案，以便企業可以利用使用蜂窩連接而不是 WiFi 的安全性、效率和靈活性。這些專用網路現在正在從我所說的 POC 或概念驗證市場過渡到商業規模部署。隨著時間的推移，這將有助於重新加速企業無線解決方案的成長。

You know also that we recently launched our new and latest enterprise 5G portfolio, which has a simplified and scalable architecture compared to the previous one. So it will offer attractive total cost of ownership for enterprises. Other examples include our neutral host solution, enable one company to allow one or more operators to serve their customers through a single indoor network, enabling fully indoor connectivity. And there are many use cases here to provide that indoor connectivity, which I think will be critical.

您也知道，我們最近推出了最新的企業 5G 產品組合，與先前的產品相比，它具有簡化且可擴展的架構。因此，它將為企業提供有吸引力的總擁有成本。其他範例包括我們的中立主機解決方案，使一家公司能夠允許一個或多個營運商透過單一室內網路為其客戶提供服務，從而實現完全室內連接。這裡有很多用例可以提供室內連接，我認為這至關重要。

With that, let me move over to Lars to go through the numbers in some greater detail.

接下來，讓我轉向拉斯，更詳細地了解這些數字。

All right. Thank you, Borje. All right. Let me start by giving you some additional points on the group before discussing the segments more in detail.

好的。謝謝你，博爾傑。好的。在更詳細地討論各個部分之前，讓我先向您提供有關該組的一些附加要點。

Net sales amounted to SEK61.8 billion and organic sales were flattish. A very strong growth in North America for the second quarter in a row with selectively increasing investments. Also, slight growth in Europe, but other markets declined. The largest decline was in India where the investment levels are normalizing after a peak in 2023.

淨銷售額達 618 億瑞典克朗，有機銷售額持平。隨著選擇性增加投資，北美連續第二季實現強勁成長。此外，歐洲略有成長，但其他市場有所下降。降幅最大的是印度，該國的投資水準在 2023 年達到高峰後正在正常化。

IPO licensing revenues increased to SEK3.5 billion from SEK2.8 billion in the third quarter last year, and this was the third quarter in a row that a new 5G IPR agreement was signed. And the current run rate is around SEK12 billion coming out of Q3. And the expected IPR revenue is expected to reach at least SEK13 billion for 2024. And there are further growth opportunities with additional 5G agreements and the potential to expand into additional licensing areas as well. And as a reminder, the IPR revenue is reported in networks and cloud software services.

IPO授權收入從去年第三季的28億瑞典克朗增加到35億瑞典克朗，這也是連續第三季簽署新的5G智慧財產權協議。第三季的目前運行率約為 120 億瑞典克朗。預計到 2024 年，智慧財產權收入將至少達到 130 億瑞典克朗。需要提醒的是，智慧財產權收入是在網路和雲端軟體服務中報告的。

As Borje already mentioned, adjusted gross margin was 46.3% in Q3, an increase from 39.2% last year. Margins improved with favorable market mix, focus on commercial discipline, cost-out activities and higher IPR licensing revenues and also the improved usage and the whole supply chain here. There was also a one-off contribution from a customer settlement here in the quarter.

正如 Borje 已經提到的，第三季調整後毛利率為 46.3%，高於去年的 39.2%。由於有利的市場組合、對商業紀律的關注、成本削減活動和更高的智慧財產權授權收入以及使用率和整個供應鏈的改善，利潤率有所提高。本季的客戶結算也帶來了一次性貢獻。

Reported OpEx was up by SEK1 billion compared to last year, mainly because of restructuring costs, which increased by SEK800 million. The cost-out activities continued to deliver savings that are largely offsetting salary increases and higher bonus provisions.

報告的營運支出比去年增加了 10 億瑞典克朗，主要是因為重組成本增加了 8 億瑞典克朗。成本削減活動繼續帶來節省，這在很大程度上抵消了加薪和更高的獎金撥備。

For R&D investments, they are continuing, and this is to maintain technology leadership and further improve operational resilience. On SG&A, cost decreased slightly overall but increased in enterprise with investments to secure operational effectiveness. Adjusted EBITA increased to SEK7.8 billion with a margin of 12.6%, marking a significant expansion year-on-year. On cash flow, this was strong at SEK2.9 billion. The improvements came from improved profitability, but also lower working capital resulting from a strong focus on inventory and supply chain management in combination with a favorable market mix.

對於研發投資，他們仍在繼續，這是為了保持技術領先地位並進一步提高營運彈性。在SG&A方面，整體成本略有下降，但透過投資確保營運效率的企業成本增加。調整後 EBITA 增至 78 億瑞典克朗，利潤率為 12.6%，較去年同期大幅成長。現金流方面，強勁，達到 29 億瑞典克朗。這些改善來自於獲利能力的提高，但由於對庫存和供應鏈管理的高度重視以及有利的市場組合，營運資本也有所下降。

With that, let's move to the financial trends. While market conditions have clearly been challenging over time, the sales stabilizing in Q3 is, I think, encouraging. The gross margin trend proves that the focus on growing the patent portfolio, the improved utilization of supply chain and the cost-out activities are paying off. The market mix was also more favorable in Q2 and Q3 this year. And with the lower top line, EBITA has also been challenged in 2024. But also, here, there is a favorable development in Q3.

接下來，讓我們轉向金融趨勢。雖然隨著時間的推移，市場狀況顯然充滿挑戰，但我認為第三季的銷售穩定是令人鼓舞的。毛利率趨勢證明，對增加專利組合、提高供應鏈利用率和成本削減活動的關注正在取得回報。今年第二季和第三季的市場組合也更有利。隨著收入下降，EBITA 也將在 2024 年受到挑戰。

So let's then see on the segment here. In networks, organic sales were flattish, with a slight decline of minus 1% year-on-year. North America grew 80% from very low levels last year, with increased investments by some customers, and of course, also rollout activities. But in other markets, customers continue to be cautious with their investments.

那麼讓我們來看看這裡的片段。網路方面，有機銷售額持平，較去年同期小幅下降-1%。由於一些客戶增加了投資，當然還有推出活動，北美地區從去年的極低水準成長了 80%。但在其他市場，客戶仍對其投資持謹慎態度。

The largest slowdown was in India following the rapid 5G buildout last year. And the network adjusted gross margin was 48.7%, with a favorable business mix, cost actions and operational leverage in the supply chain all contributing to the margin. IPR revenues and non-recurring settlements with the customer also contributed to the gross margin improvement here in the quarter.

繼去年 5G 快速建設之後，印度的成長放緩幅度最大。網路調整後的毛利率為 48.7%，有利的業務組合、成本行動和供應鏈中的營運槓桿都對利潤率做出了貢獻。知識產權收入和與客戶的非經常性和解也為本季毛利率的改善做出了貢獻。

Networks adjusted EBITA increased to SEK8.1 billion from SEK5.2 billion last year, and EBITA margin was 20.3% and 16% on a rolling four quarters basis. In segment cloud software and services, organic sales were fairly flat with a year-on-year decline of minus 1%, mainly impacted by lower service sales.

網路調整後 EBITA 從去年的 52 億瑞典克朗增加到 81 億瑞典克朗，連續四季的 EBITA 利潤率分別為 20.3% 和 16%。在雲端軟體和服務領域，有機銷售額相當平穩，較去年同期下降-1%，主要受到服務銷售額下降的影響。

Adjusted gross margin was 38.7%, improving somewhat from last year. And here, the strategy execution with focus on commercial discipline and accelerated automation is paying off. There was also a small benefit from IPR revenues and the customer settlement also here. EBITA margin was 2.9% and 3.6% rolling four quarters.

調整後毛利率為38.7%，較去年改善。在這裡，以商業紀律和加速自動化為重點的策略執行正在取得回報。智慧財產權收入和客戶結算也帶來了一些小好處。連續四個季度的 EBITA 利潤率分別為 2.9% 和 3.6%。

In enterprise, sales declined by 3% and sales in global communications platform declined as expected, impacted the decision to reduce some activities in some markets and focus on more profitable market segments. Enterprise Wireless Solutions, here, we grew about 7% with somewhat slower growth in wireless 1. And as Borje mentioned, the first enterprise 5G neutral host solutions were launched in the quarter.

在企業方面，銷售額下降了 3%，全球通訊平台的銷售額也如預期下降，影響了減少某些市場的部分活動並專注於利潤更高的細分市場的決定。企業無線解決方案，我們成長了約 7%，無線 1 的成長有所放緩。

Adjusted gross margin increased to 52.4% with improved margins across the business in enterprise. The adjusted EBITA loss was SEK0.8 billion, impacted by higher operating expenses mainly in global communications platform, and this is for two reasons. First, the non-cash impact from a lower rate of capitalization of R&D expenses that we started in Q1 this year, and this impact OpEx for the full year of around SEK1 billion. And secondly, investments for operational effectiveness that we do.

調整後毛利率增加至 52.4%，企業業務利潤率提高。調整後的 EBITA 虧損為 8 億瑞典克朗，主要是受到全球通訊平台營運費用增加的影響，有兩個原因。首先，我們從今年第一季開始降低研發費用資本化率的非現金影響，這對全年營運支出產生了約 10 億瑞典克朗的影響。其次，我們為提高營運效率所做的投資。

And also, worth mentioning I think is that as Borje mentioned here, the investments in the global network platform for network APIs also continue. The focus on improving the financial performance in the current portfolio continues at the same time as we also invest for the future here.

另外，我認為值得一提的是，正如 Borje 在這裡提到的那樣，對網路 API 的全球網路平台的投資也在繼續。我們在持續專注於改善目前投資組合的財務表現的同時，也對未來進行投資。

Then turning to free cash flow group, which was SEK12.9 billion before M&A in the quarter. The increase compared to last year is mainly working capital improvement and comes from a strong focus on inventory and supply chain management all the way out to our customers. And of course, there was a strong contribution from EBITA and the favorable market mix here. That resulted in net cash that increased sequentially by SEK12.4 billion to SEK25.5 billion. And return on capital employed in Q3 was 14.9%.

然後轉向自由現金流集團，本季併購前為 129 億瑞典克朗。與去年相比，成長主要是營運資金的改善，以及對庫存和供應鏈管理的高度重視，一直到我們的客戶。當然，EBITA 和有利的市場組合也做出了巨大貢獻。這導致淨現金連續增加 124 億瑞典克朗，達到 255 億瑞典克朗。第三季的資本報酬率為 14.9%。

Then let's look at the outlook. First, on sales, for networks, Q3 delivered above seasonal pattern here. So the starting point is a bit high. So given the strong Q3, Q4 is expected to be below average seasonality. On cloud software and services, here, we declined sequentially by 1% between Q2 and Q3. And Q4 is also expected to be below average due to timing of project deliveries. And in enterprise, sale is expected to be further impacted in Q4 by the decision to focus on profitable markets and products.

然後我們再看看前景。首先，在銷售方面，對於網路而言，第三季的表現高於季節性模式。所以起點有點高。因此，鑑於第三季的強勁表現，第四季預計將低於平均季節性。在雲端軟體和服務方面，我們在第二季和第三季之間連續下降了 1%。由於專案交付時間的原因，第四季預計也將低於平均值。在企業領域，由於專注於獲利市場和產品的決定，第四季度的銷售預計將受到進一步影響。

And then next, turning to profitability. Here, in Q3, networks gross margin benefited from retroactive IPR licensing and the customer settlement in Q3. So for Q4, the gross margin is expected to be in the range of 47% to 49%. And then finally, restructuring is expected to be around SEK4 billion for the full year.

接下來，轉向獲利能力。第三季度，網路毛利率受益於追溯性智慧財產權授權和第三季的客戶結算。因此，第四季的毛利率預計在47%至49%之間。最後，預計全年重組金額約 40 億瑞典克朗。

With that, I hand back to you, Borje.

說完，我把話交還給你，Borje。

Thanks, Lars. So despite the continuing challenges in the overall RAN market, our Q3 results really shows the underlying strength in our business. And we're, of course, encouraged by the continued delivery strength we saw in North America.

謝謝，拉爾斯。因此，儘管整個 RAN 市場持續面臨挑戰，但我們第三季的業績確實顯示了我們業務的潛在實力。當然，我們對北美持續的交付實力感到鼓舞。

We expect our network sales to stabilize year-over-year during Q4, driven by the continued good growth and progress we're making in North America. But we anticipate further pressure in enterprise near term as we focus on the more profitable segments.

在我們在北美取得的持續良好成長和進步的推動下，我們預計第四季度的網路銷售將同比穩定。但我們預計，隨著我們專注於利潤更高的領域，企業近期將面臨進一步的壓力。

Ultimately, investment decisions, and we said this a number of times, and the overall market developments will be in the hands of our customers. So in that meantime, we'll continue to be laser focused on what we can control, specifically on operational excellence and optimizing our business to further strengthen our technology leadership through dedicated investments, R&D, and achieve overall strong financial results. And you know, this is something we want to do irrespective of market conditions.

最終，投資決策，我們已經說過很多次了，整個市場的發展將掌握在我們客戶的手中。因此，同時，我們將繼續專注於我們可以控制的事情，特別是卓越營運和優化我們的業務，透過專門投資、研發進一步加強我們的技術領先地位，並實現整體強勁的財務業績。你知道，無論市場狀況如何，這都是我們想要做的事情。

For longer term, for the industry to really return to growth, it's essential to find new revenue streams for our customers. i.e., they need to go beyond consumer, mobile broadband subscriptions. And here, we're noticing a change in the current customer discussions. The interest in our programmable networks is clearly accelerating. This is, of course, an effect of the increased monetization opportunities that our customers see through differentiated connectivity.

從長遠來看，產業要真正恢復成長，必須為我們的客戶找到新的收入來源。也就是說，他們需要超越消費者的行動寬頻訂閱。在這裡，我們注意到當前客戶討論的變化。人們對可編程網路的興趣顯然正在加速成長。當然，這是我們的客戶透過差異化連結看到的更多獲利機會的結果。

Network APIs remains one of the best opportunities for us as well as the industry to make true of the progress of 5G, and we're making good progress on this part of the strategy. But as you have heard, we are pursuing other opportunities as well to broaden the use cases of mobile networks in the future.

網路 API 仍然是我們以及整個產業實現 5G 進步的最佳機會之一，我們在這部分策略上取得了良好進展。但正如您所聽到的，我們也在尋求其他機會，以擴大未來行動網路的用例。

Of course, creating a new market and new monetization models take time but at least we're very encouraged by the traction we're starting to see. The foundation for this strategy is and will remain our mobile network solutions. And here, we will take every action needed to ensure we maintain our leadership position.

當然，創造新市場和新的獲利模式需要時間，但至少我們對開始看到的吸引力感到非常鼓舞。這項策略的基礎現在是、將來仍然是我們的行動網路解決方案。在這裡，我們將採取一切必要行動，確保我們保持領先地位。

With that, I think we're ready to take your questions instead and move on to the Q&A. Daniel?

至此，我想我們已經準備好回答您的問題並繼續進行問答了。丹尼爾？

(Event Instructions) Alex Duval, Goldman Sachs.

（活動說明）Alex Duval，高盛。

Hi, everyone, many thanks to the question. You talked today about the AT&T ramp having started in the quarter, and revenues overall were clearly stronger than expected. I wondered -- could you please clarify why then you gave this Q4 outlook for subseasonal quarterly networks revenue growth? How should we think about the effects of that AT&T contract ramp on revenue seasonality in next couple of quarters? And what does that mean for group margins? Many thanks.

大家好，非常感謝大家的提問。您今天談到了 AT&T 在本季開始的成長，整體收入明顯強於預期。我想知道 - 您能否解釋一下為什麼您對第四季度的次季節季度網路收入成長做出了展望？我們應該如何看待 AT&T 合約增加對未來幾季營收季節性的影響？這對集團利潤率意味著什麼？非常感謝。

All right. Thanks, Alex. I think the ramp-up when it comes to North America there, we saw already signs, as you might remember, in Q2. And here, in Q3, it has been also quite an intensive quarter with quite high ramp-up level, so impacting net sales. And what we see and expect, this a little bit that this will come down and normalize a little bit going into Q4 and then also in for next year. So that is a little bit what we see.

好的。謝謝，亞歷克斯。我認為，當談到北美時，我們已經在第二季度看到了跡象，你可能還記得。第三季度也是一個相當密集的季度，成長水準相當高，因此影響了淨銷售額。我們所看到和期望的是，這種情況會在第四季度下降並正常化，然後在明年也會出現。這就是我們所看到的一點點。

And to exactly estimate the ramp up, it is very much connected to our ability, but also a close work with the customer, so we get the right level there for their end as well. So in that sense, yes, it has been a little bit better than we might expect when we came into Q3.

要準確估計成長，這與我們的能力密切相關，而且還與客戶密切合作，因此我們也為他們的最終目標提供了正確的水平。所以從這個意義上說，是的，它比我們進入第三季時的預期要好一些。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Joachim Gunell, DNB.

約阿希姆·古內爾，DNB。

Thank you and good morning. So you've guided quite conservative here in six out of your seven previous next quarter outlook on gross margin here even if we struck out IPR catch-ups. Can you just comment a bit? I mean, is this in any sense a visibility issue? Or what continues to consider being so much better than your internal expectations?

謝謝你，早安。因此，即使我們排除了知識產權追趕的情況，您在前七個季度的毛利率展望中的六個中也給出了相當保守的指導。能稍微評論一下嗎？我的意思是，這在任何意義上都是可見性問題嗎？還是什麼繼續認為比你的內在期望好得多？

Yes. Well, I think, to some extent, as you mentioned, there are some impacts. But fundamentally, I think it's underlying that the cost-out activities and the productivity improvements and improvements in the whole supply chain has may become a little bit faster than we expected. So I think that is part of the explanation.

是的。嗯，我認為，正如你所提到的，在某種程度上，是有一些影響的。但從根本上講，我認為整個供應鏈的成本削減活動和生產力提高以及改進可能會比我們預期的要快一些。所以我認為這是解釋的一部分。

And then, of course, there is always some product and market mix impact. But if we look a little bit over time, I think some of this improvement has come. I'm happy to say a little bit faster than maybe we expected when we did the forecast and guidance in previous quarters.

當然，總是會有一些產品和市場組合的影響。但如果我們稍微觀察一下時間，我認為這種改進已經出現了一些。我很高興地說，這可能比我們在前幾個季度進行預測和指導時預期的要快一些。

Understood. And very briefly, if I can just squeeze in. The iconectiv sale here corresponds to roughly one, call it, annual dividend yield for you. And you are well capitalized, and we see strong cash flows coming out 2024. I know this is a Board decision, but perhaps, Borje, being on the board, you can comment whether you prefer to pursue extraordinary dividends, buybacks, or [M&E] at this stage?

明白了。非常簡單地說，如果我能擠進去的話。你們資本充足，我們看到 2024 年將出現強勁的現金流。 ] 現階段？

I think it's a discussion for the Board. And you also know, if you want to do share buybacks, for example, it's truly a decision for the shareholders. So we're focused on really what we can impact, and that's an area that I think fall in other shares. But I would, though, say that you're right. We're all generating a solid cash flow. Now we have a strong financial position that I think it gives the Board and the owners a decision to take.

我認為這是董事會的討論。你也知道，例如，如果你想進行股票回購，這確實是股東的決定。因此，我們真正關注的是我們能夠影響的事情，我認為這是其他股票所關注的領域。但我想說你是對的。我們都在產生穩定的現金流。現在我們擁有強大的財務狀況，我認為這讓董事會和業主可以做出決定。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Francois Bouvignies, UBS.

弗朗索瓦·布維尼，瑞銀集團。

Thank you very much. You delivered a very strong gross margin, and you mentioned some cost saving programs impacting stability IPR. But when I look at the gross margin and look at history, last time, you had 46% gross margin. It was when North America was very high in terms of mix, like 40% of your revenue plus, which is the same today.

非常感謝。你們提供了非常強勁的毛利率，並且提到了一些影響智慧財產權穩定性的成本節約計畫。但當我查看毛利率並查看歷史時，上次的毛利率為 46%。當時北美的混合程度非常高，例如收入的 40% 以上，今天也一樣。

So I have the feeling when I look at the past that basically, the (inaudible) mix is like the almost all of the gross margin moving so high. Of course, you have cost savings, but (inaudible) seems to be like an important factor. How should we think about the mix into next year when you have the contract normalization maybe in the US and other regions? And is it fair that the North American mix is the main contributor of this very strong gross margin?

因此，當我回顧過去時，我有一種感覺，基本上，（聽不清楚）混合就像幾乎所有的毛利率都移動得如此之高。當然，您可以節省成本，但（聽不清楚）似乎是一個重要因素。當美國和其他地區的合約正常化時，我們應該如何考慮明年的組合？北美組合是如此強勁毛利率的主要貢獻者，這公平嗎？

If you look at Q3 here, it is a contributor, yes, but it's not the main contributor. The main contributor is actually coming from the improvements we have done not yes, short term, but over quite a long time. We have done quite a bit of restructuring activities also impacting gross income, but also the productivity and the better utilization of the whole supply chain.

如果你看這裡的第三季度，它是一個貢獻者，是的，但它不是主要貢獻者。主要貢獻者其實來自我們所做的改進，不是短期的，而是相當長的一段時間。我們進行了大量的重組活動，不僅影響了總收入，也影響了整個供應鏈的生產力和更好的利用率。

So I think there is where you have a bigger part of the margin improvement actually going -- coming out of Q3 here and coming into next year. Of course, we are happy with the market mix, but it's not the main contributor.

因此，我認為，從第三季到明年，利潤率的改善實際上有很大一部分。當然，我們對市場組合感到滿意，但這不是主要貢獻者。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Andreas Joelsson, Carnegie.

安德烈亞斯·喬爾森，卡內基。

Thank you and good morning. A question on the strategy and maybe for Borje. It's a bit hard to sort of grasp the potential in programmable networks. How do you see this impacting you, Ericsson going. (inaudible) forward, I mean if the operators earn more money and can grow better? Do you think that the main impact from you will be directly from having to the APIs? Or do you see it more from an indirect effect the operators having to invest more in the networks and make them programmable?

謝謝你，早安。關於策略的問題，也許是針對博爾傑的問題。要把握可程式網路的潛力有點困難。您認為這對您有何影響，愛立信將繼續前進。 （聽不清楚）向前，我的意思是運營商是否能賺更多的錢並且能夠發展得更好？您認為您的主要影響是否直接來自於 API？或者您是否更多地從間接影響中看到運營商必須對網路進行更多投資並使其可編程？

Thanks, Andreas. That's a very good question. And I will also be honest to say we don't know how the world is going to shape up. But the way we think about when we launch the opportunity of going into enterprise is that the enterprise needs to stand on its own feet. So when you think about network APIs, of course, that needs to be a profitable business, and we see that opportunity in itself.

謝謝，安德烈亞斯。這是一個非常好的問題。我還要誠實地說，我們不知道世界會如何發展。但當我們推出進入企業的機會時，我們的思考方式是企業需要自立。因此，當您考慮網路 API 時，當然，這需要是一項有利可圖的業務，我們本身就看到了這個機會。

Same thing with Enterprise Wireless Solutions, et cetera. But you should think of the programmable network as building a foundation to create a network that actually can dynamically bring up new network slices, i.e., giving the opportunities to be monetized.

企業無線解決方案等也是如此。但您應該將可編程網路視為創建一個實際上可以動態創建新網路切片的網路的基礎，即提供貨幣化的機會。

So it's, of course, tightly linked. So if we see the market for network API is taking off for enterprise connectivity taking off, it's going to stimulate the demand for programmable networks. So for us, I think, ultimately, we can separate the two. But when we assess the areas, I think we need to think of them independently. So that's the first comment.

所以這當然是緊密相連的。因此，如果我們看到網路 API 市場因企業連接而起飛，這將刺激對可編程網路的需求。因此，對我們來說，我認為最終我們可以將兩者分開。但當我們評估這些領域時，我認為我們需要獨立思考它們。這是第一條評論。

The second is I think when we look at the enterprise, it's a fundamental shift in the industry, and it's away from consumer mobile broadband so largely around the world monthly subscriptions. What is the problem or maybe not -- I shouldn't call it a problem, but it's an issue in the business model.

第二個是我認為當我們審視企業時，這是行業的根本性轉變，它遠離了全球範圍內很大程度上的每月訂閱的消費者行動寬頻。問題是什麼，也許不是——我不應該稱其為問題，但這是商業模式的問題。

And that is if you add marginal CapEx in the network, you don't create new revenues. And of course, that doesn't lend itself to normal investment calculation. You need to think about customer retention. You need to think about network performance. So it's a bit of a softer link.

也就是說，如果您在網路中加入邊際資本支出，就不會創造新的收入。當然，這並不適合正常的投資計算。您需要考慮保留客戶。您需要考慮網路效能。所以這是一個比較軟的連結。

What we are trying to do in enterprise, but we're trying to do that with mission-critical with fixed wireless access is to create specific investment cases for the customers, where they can generate new revenues. So if I invest in a more capable network, I can actually start to sell those capabilities and get new revenues.

我們在企業中正在嘗試做的事情，但我們正在嘗試透過固定無線存取的關鍵任務來為客戶創建特定的投資案例，讓他們能夠產生新的收入。因此，如果我投資一個功能更強大的網絡，我實際上可以開始出售這些功能並獲得新的收入。

So you get a much more normal investment calculation. And that, I think, is the major opportunity. The interesting thing is we're seeing a lot of traction here. That's why now when we -- of course, AT&T stimulated, but with the launch of the JV a few weeks ago, we see much more interest coming from customers saying, can I now monetize the network? I need these capabilities, so I better build the capabilities and we prepared for that monetization. So I think they move in parallel, although a little bit different, but we need to keep them apart a bit. I hope that helped.

這樣你就可以得到更正常的投資計算。我認為這是主要的機會。有趣的是，我們在這裡看到了很大的吸引力。這就是為什麼現在當我們——當然是 AT&T 的刺激，但隨著幾週前合資企業的推出，我們看到客戶產生了更多的興趣，他們說，我現在可以透過網路貨幣化嗎？我需要這些功能，所以我更好地建立這些功能，並為貨幣化做好準備。所以我認為它們是平行移動的，雖然有點不同，但我們需要讓它們分開一點。我希望這有幫助。

Absolutely. Thank you.

絕對地。謝謝。

Sebastian Sztabowicz, Kepler Cheuvreux.

塞巴斯蒂安·薩塔博維奇，開普勒·舍弗勒。

Hello, everyone, and thanks for taking my question. One on Enterprise Wireless Solutions where the growth has significantly slowed down in the third quarter, and you also see soft trends continuing in the near term. Can you help us (inaudible) and what is the reason for this to slow down in Enterprise Wireless Solutions. Is it linked to macro condition or other specific topic? And what should we expect a kind of recovery, in Enterprise Wireless Solutions? What do you need exactly to see this business going back to growth? Thank you.

大家好，感謝您提出我的問題。其中一個是企業無線解決方案，第三季的成長明顯放緩，而且您還可以看到短期內持續疲軟的趨勢。您能否幫助我們（聽不清楚）以及企業無線解決方案速度減慢的原因是什麼。它與宏觀條件或其他特定主題有關嗎？在企業無線解決方案中，我們應該期待什麼樣的復甦？您到底需要什麼才能看到該業務恢復成長？謝謝。

I think there is somewhat lower growth rate that is impacting but also, as we mentioned there, focus on profitable markets and product segments that is impacting to some extent here in the quarter. And then in Enterprise Wireless Solutions, we also have what we mentioned here going in more into the private network side, that is there. But that growth has not really taken off yet fully. So that is what we expect to support the growth going forward here. I don't know if you want to add.

我認為成長率有所下降，但正如我們所提到的，重點關注本季在一定程度上產生影響的獲利市場和產品領域。然後在企業無線解決方案中，我們也將這裡提到的內容更深入到專用網路方面，那就是那裡。但這種增長尚未真正完全起飛。這就是我們期望支持這裡未來成長的因素。不知道要不要補充。

The only thing I would add is that we also launched actually new products in Enterprise Wireless Solutions. So for the whole dedicated networks, what we call EP 5G as well as neutral host during the quarter. That led to a bit of a -- I guess it happens often when you make a product transition that the old portfolio slows down before the new one picks up. That's why you see also Q3 being impacted a bit more.

我唯一要補充的是，我們還在企業無線解決方案中推出了實際的新產品。因此，對於整個專用網絡，我們稱之為 EP 5G 以及本季的中立主機。這導致了一個問題——我猜當你進行產品轉型時，舊產品組合在新產品組合加速之前會放緩，這種情況經常發生。這就是為什麼你會看到第三季受到的影響更大。

We start to see some very encouraging signs on the dedicated enterprise is connectivity. So the EP 5G, a neutral host and we actually expect that to move much more into commercial scale deployments now. So we feel it's too early to project on this, but at least we have some very encouraging customer interactions that we start to see this to be a real market now.

我們開始看到一些非常令人鼓舞的跡象，顯示專注於企業的連結性。因此，EP 5G 是一個中立的主機，我們實際上預計它現在將更多地進入商業規模部署。因此，我們覺得現在對此進行預測還為時過早，但至少我們有一些非常令人鼓舞的客戶互動，我們現在開始看到這是一個真正的市場。

Erik Rojestal, SEB.

埃里克·羅傑斯塔爾，SEB。

Yes, good morning, Lars. And yes, thank you for taking my question. So I mean North America clearly turning around here, but the market in general remains weak and your rolling 12 months EBITA margin is around 10% hearing (inaudible) Q3. I mean, in the light of your margin target of 15% to 18%, do you think you have to do more actions on cost into 2025 to reach this target? Or can you deliver sort of continued contract wins and a better market to take you there?

是的，早安，拉斯。是的，謝謝您提出我的問題。因此，我的意思是，北美地區明顯出現了好轉，但市場總體依然疲軟，第 3 季的 12 個月滾動 EBITA 利潤率約為 10%（聽不清楚）。我的意思是，鑑於您的利潤率目標為 15% 至 18%，您認為您是否需要在 2025 年之前對成本採取更多行動才能實現這一目標？或者你能提供某種持續的合約贏得和更好的市場來帶你到達那裡嗎？

Thank you. I think coming into -- we are -- as we see already in the numbers this year, we have taken cost actions and that has been offset by salary inflation and some bonus provisioning as well. And we see that will continue. There will be salary increases also next year. And with what we say, a flattish market. Of course, we need to also think about how to adjust our cost base accordingly. So that will probably continue when we come into next year as well to ensure that we have the right cost base.

謝謝。我認為，正如我們在今年的數據中看到的那樣，我們已經採取了成本行動，並且這已被工資上漲和一些獎金撥備所抵消。我們看到這種情況將會持續下去。明年也將加薪。正如我們所說，市場持平。當然，我們還需要考慮如何相應地調整我們的成本基礎。因此，當我們進入明年時，這種情況可能會繼續下去，以確保我們擁有正確的成本基礎。

Actually, if you work in a flattish market, and I think you will have cost increases from inflationary pressures, call it that, just like Lars said, we will continuously review our costs. That's what we've done in the past that we will have to do in the future as well. So that's no doubt. But what I do hope is that we can make it more a part of our normal business.

事實上，如果你在一個平淡的市場中工作，我認為你會因通膨壓力而增加成本，就像拉斯說的那樣，我們將不斷審查我們的成本。這就是我們過去所做的，將來也必須這樣做。所以這是毫無疑問的。但我確實希望我們能夠讓它成為我們正常業務的一部分。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jakob Bluestone, BNP Paribas.

雅各布魯斯通，法國巴黎銀行。

Thanks for taking the questions. I just had one question. I was hoping you could give us a little update on the competitive environment that you're seeing specifically in the RAN market. So any updated thoughts on pressure from vendors or any other particular things you want to highlight? Thanks.

感謝您提出問題。我只有一個問題。我希望您能為我們介紹一下您所看到的 RAN 市場競爭環境的最新情況。那麼對於來自供應商的壓力或您想要強調的任何其他特定事項有什麼最新的想法嗎？謝謝。

It's largely the same over the last few years. So it's no real change in that sense where we have some footprint losses, and we have some gains. I think that's what you will see. What I think is important is that in that market environment, we will continue to have the commercial discipline to be thoughtful about the contracts we win, and not chase every piece of footprint we have. So I wouldn't say there is a change to the worse or to the better today.

過去幾年的情況基本上相同。因此，從這個意義上說，這並不是真正的變化，我們有一些足跡損失，但我們有一些收穫。我想這就是你會看到的。我認為重要的是，在這種市場環境下，我們將繼續遵守商業紀律，對我們贏得的合約進行深思熟慮，而不是追逐我們擁有的每一塊足跡。所以我不會說今天發生了更糟或更好的變化。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Rob Sanders, Deutsche Bank.

羅布桑德斯，德意志銀行。

Yes, good morning. Could you just talk a bit about the other two operators in North America? And what kind of (inaudible) have you seen in terms of a pickup there? Are they responding perhaps to AT&T's modernization program by investing more next year? And have you got line of sight into a spending recovery next year at those other two operators? Thanks.

是的，早安。能簡單介紹一下北美的另外兩家業者嗎？您在那裡看過什麼樣的（聽不清楚）皮卡？他們是否會透過明年加大投資來回應 AT&T 的現代化計劃？您是否預計其他兩家業者明年的支出會復甦？謝謝。

Thanks, Rob. That's a very interesting question that I think we will not comment on specifically for the simple reason that it's a competitive market, and we should also try to be neutral in any comments about the market. But what I will say is that -- and I think we've tried to make that point that the increase in North America is broader than just one contract. So I think then you -- unfortunately, you'll have to make your own interpretation.

謝謝，羅布。這是一個非常有趣的問題，我認為我們不會專門發表評論，原因很簡單，這是一個競爭激烈的市場，我們也應該嘗試在任何有關市場的評論中保持中立。但我要說的是——我認為我們已經試圖表明這一點，即北美的成長範圍不僅僅是一份合約。所以我認為不幸的是，你必須做出自己的解釋。

Sandeep Deshpande, JPMorgan.

桑迪普·德什潘德，摩根大通。

Yes, hi. Thanks for letting me on. I'd like to just quickly go back to that contract you've signed to create this new company for monetization of API. Could you talk about the time frame in which you expect this company to be operating with the API? And how the monetization will proceed, how will Ericsson get paid for the contribution of the API into this company?

是的，嗨。謝謝你讓我上來。我想快速回顧一下您簽署的創建這家新公司以實現 API 貨幣化的合約。您能否談談您預計該公司使用 API 營運的時間範圍？貨幣化將如何進行，愛立信將如何因向這家公司提供 API 的貢獻而獲得報酬？

So we can talk about it a bit principally because it's a regulatory process, and we said that. So that's going through. But we are, in the meantime, of course, building up the company to get the platform in place, et cetera. So all of these things are progressing. And hopefully, it's in subject regulatory approval going to be launched in the next few months here. So that -- I can't really go into more comments. But what's important with this venture is that we make the network APIs available, makes them easy accessible.

所以我們可以稍微討論一下，主要是因為這是一個監管過程，我們也這麼說過。事情就這樣過去了。但同時，我們當然正在建立公司以建立平台等等。所以所有這些事情都在進步。希望它能在未來幾個月內獲得監管部門的批准。所以——我真的無法發表更多評論。但對於這個專案來說，重要的是我們提供網路 API，使它們易於存取。

Then they have to be sold to -- so that's, of course, what the JV will do. So it's in that sense, an aggregator platform. This is something that exists for communication APIs today, but not necessarily or doesn't for network APIs on a broader scale. So that's what we are creating here. And the interesting thing, and that's what's exciting for us is, of course, we kind of think of it as quarterbacking the creation of this.

然後它們必須被賣給——所以這當然是合資企業要做的。所以從這個意義上來說，它是一個聚合平台。這是當今通訊 API 中存在的東西，但對於更廣泛的網路 API 來說不一定或不存在。這就是我們在這裡創建的。有趣的是，這對我們來說是令人興奮的，當然，我們認為它是這個創作的四分衛。

It's, of course, truly important to get that first step because unless we have global availability of network APIs, we have really nothing, right? So the first step here was really to make that happen.

當然，踏出第一步確實很重要，因為除非我們擁有全球可用的網路 API，否則我們真的一無所有，對嗎？所以第一步就是要實現這個目標。

That's going to be one thing that's going to create new type of revenues for our operator customers, and they will, of course, start to resell those network APIs. That's where Vonage actually comes in. So what we will do in Vonage is to leverage the developer ecosystem and create a unique developer experience start to use the network APIs. So if you're a developer that works on creating new secure financial transactions, you can call up certain network features in an easy-to-use API and that's where we will make money as Vonage.

這將是為我們的營運商客戶創造新型收入的一件事，他們當然會開始轉售這些網路 API。這就是 Vonage 真正發揮作用的地方。因此，如果您是致力於創建新的安全金融交易的開發人員，您可以在易於使用的 API 中呼叫某些網路功能，這就是我們作為 Vonage 賺錢的地方。

So we will resell the aggregated network APIs from the JV and of course, we will open those network APIs up for other companies as well. But here, it will also be the key for us is to lead the development here we're starting to attract developers that will start to use these type of new APIs in a new way. That may not be the same developers we had for communication APIs.

因此，我們將從合資公司轉售聚合的網路 API，當然，我們也會向其他公司開放這些網路 API。但在這裡，對我們來說，領導開發也將是關鍵，我們開始吸引開發人員，他們將開始以新的方式使用這些類型的新 API。這可能與我們開發通訊 API 的開發人員不同。

There may be others because they are going to know a certain vertical better. So I think when we create that developer experience and developer interaction, we will get a lot of feedback maybe this network API is not the most important. Maybe this is better.

可能還有其他人，因為他們會更了解某個垂直領域。所以我認為當我們創建開發者體驗和開發者互動時，我們會得到很多回饋，也許這個網頁 API 並不是最重要的。也許這樣更好。

So we will start to adjust the offerings as well, and that's where we will play in the value chain. I actually think that's it moves Ericsson up to an other attraction or another layer in the stack call it that. Of course, I cannot show the proof point today. And I think that's your question is ultimately when will this get revenues in European. So let me come back to that question.

因此，我們也將開始調整產品，這就是我們將在價值鏈中發揮作用的地方。事實上，我認為這就是它將愛立信提升到另一個吸引力或堆疊中的另一個層的原因。當然，我今天無法拿出證據。我認為你的問題最終是什麼時候才能在歐洲獲得收入。讓我回到這個問題。

But it's a very encouraging momentum. We're starting to see on the side of the operators, but also on the side of the developer community, application users, system integrators, how they can leverage the networks in a new way.

但這是一個非常令人鼓舞的勢頭。我們開始看到營運商、開發者社群、應用程式使用者、系統整合商如何以新的方式利用網路。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Daniel Djurberg, Handelsbanken.

丹尼爾‧朱伯格，德國商業銀行。

Thanks so much and good morning, Borje and Lars. And my question would be on fixed value success. That has been a positive trigger for network build and almost a killer app. If you can comment a little bit on the progress you see in various markets, US, for example, but also elsewhere, for example, (inaudible) has reformed mid-band for use of fixed wire success. That would be my question and thank you.

非常感謝，早安，Borje 和 Lars。我的問題是關於固定價值的成功。這是網路建設的積極觸發因素，幾乎是殺手級應用程式。如果您可以評論您在各個市場看到的進展，例如美國，但也包括其他地方（例如，（聽不清楚））已經改革了中頻以實現固定線路的成功使用。這就是我的問題，謝謝。

Thanks, Daniel. It's a good question. And you're right. This has actually been a key use case so far. So far, I would say it has not driven a lot of network investments.

謝謝，丹尼爾。這是一個好問題。你是對的。到目前為止，這實際上是一個關鍵用例。到目前為止，我想說它還沒有帶動大量的網路投資。

But it's been a very interesting use case as it shows that it shows a couple of benefits. You can get -- it's almost a similar performance to fiber will always be the gold standard. So we shouldn't kid ourselves there. But there are a number of use cases where fixed wireless access becomes attractive. It becomes very high performance. It becomes very fast to roll out.

但這是一個非常有趣的用例，因為它表明它具有一些好處。你可以得到——它幾乎與纖維相似的性能將永遠是黃金標準。所以我們不應該在那裡自欺欺人。但在許多用例中，固定無線存取變得有吸引力。它變得非常高性能。推出變得非常快。

It becomes very easy for the consumer to use. As a matter of fact, in markets where it's been rolled out, the Net Promoter Score is typically higher for fixed wireless access than fiber because of the ease to use, for example. So I think there are a number of commercial benefits that's actually driving a use case and generating new revenues for our customers. And as network utilization start to go up, they will also start to invest more in network gear that's needed to support that use case. So I'm actually rather optimistic about fixed wireless access although the direct contribution is small.

消費者使用起來變得非常容易。事實上，在已經推出該技術的市場中，固定無線存取的淨建議值通常高於光纖，因為其易於使用等原因。因此，我認為有許多商業利益實際上可以推動用例並為我們的客戶創造新的收入。隨著網路利用率開始上升，他們也將開始在支援該用例所需的網路設備上進行更多投資。所以我其實對固定無線存取相當樂觀，儘管直接貢獻很小。

The front-runner market was clearly North America, most growth in broadband subscriptions over the past 18, 24 months have been from fixed wireless access. So they've been early, but we're starting to see very good progress with our customers in India.

領跑者市場顯然是北美，過去 18、24 個月寬頻用戶的大部分成長來自固定無線存取。所以他們還很早，但我們開始看到印度客戶取得了非常好的進展。

We start to see other markets where it maybe it's more of a complement to other type of connectivity. But I think many will start to look at India as actually a very interesting case because if this can commercially be rolled out in India, it means that CPE prices have come down now to make it very competitive with fiber in other markets. And the reality is for -- if you look out in the future, expensive fiber build may not be the cheapest way to connect consumers, right, or enterprises for that matter. Leveraging wireless connectivity is a smarter way and probably more CapEx wise longer term. So it's -- I think it's a very interesting development we're seeing there.

我們開始看到其他市場，它可能更多是對其他類型連接的補充。但我認為許多人會開始將印度視為一個非常有趣的案例，因為如果這可以在印度進行商業推廣，則意味著 CPE 價格現在已經下降，使其與其他市場的光纖相比非常具有競爭力。現實是——如果你展望未來，昂貴的光纖建設可能不是連接消費者或企業的最便宜的方式。利用無線連接是一種更明智的方式，從長遠來看，可能更明智地考慮資本支出。所以我認為這是我們看到的一個非常有趣的發展。

But so far, it's not the broad market as fiber is, at least not in Europe. Europe is still a fiber continent, I'd say, spilt of glass works.

但到目前為止，它還沒有像纖維那樣廣闊的市場，至少在歐洲是如此。我想說，歐洲仍然是一個纖維大陸，到處都是玻璃工廠。

Yes. Thank you, Borje, and I'll get back into queue.

是的。謝謝你，Borje，我會重新排隊。

Andrew Gardiner, Citi.

安德魯·加德納，花旗銀行。

Thank you, Daniel, and good morning all. So I was wondering if I could try the AT&T question another way. I mean you said last quarter, you started to see some revenue. It's clearly built very nicely into the third quarter, but it feels like it's still fairly early in this deployment in this network migration for them. Can you give us a sense as to where we are in the deployment phase and what your visibility is, given that this is a unique contract in terms of the technology, do you feel like you've got better visibility than you normally would? And perhaps sort of final one, why wouldn't you see growth in this contract into next year?

謝謝你，丹尼爾，大家早安。所以我想知道是否可以用另一種方​​式嘗試 AT&T 問題。我的意思是你說上個季度你開始看到一些收入。顯然，第三季的建置非常好，但感覺對他們來說，網路遷移的部署仍處於相當早期的階段。您能否讓我們了解一下我們處於部署階段的哪個階段以及您的可見性如何，鑑於這是技術方面的獨特合同，您是否覺得您比平時擁有更好的可見性？也許最後一個問題是，您為什麼不認為這份合約會在明年有所成長？

I think the pace that we now had in Q3 was a bit high, and then that will calm down a little bit in Q4. But then we are more on the level that is because it's also the rollout pace of our customer together with the customer that is determining the value, so to say, on the revenue side. So I think that is why we are saying that it's stabilizing and then that will continue, of course, for quite some quarters for the full contract rollout. So that is also worth to remember, I think.

我認為我們現在在第三季的步伐有點高，然後在第四季會平靜下來。但我們更多的是在這個層面上，因為這也是我們的客戶以及客戶的推出速度決定了價值，可以說，在收入方面。因此，我認為這就是為什麼我們說它正在穩定，然後這種情況當然會持續相當長的幾個季度，以便全面推出合約。所以我認為這也值得記住。

Yes. So you do have visibility into next year in that way?

是的。那麼您確實可以透過這種方式了解明年的情況嗎？

Yes, it will continue into next year for sure.

是的，這種情況肯定會持續到明年。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Sami Sarkamies, Danske Bank.

薩米·薩卡米斯，丹麥銀行。

Okay, thanks. I would actually like to continue on the same exact topic, your Q4 guide. Based on gross margin, I guess, we can read that you're also seeing below normal seasonality in other markets than North America. We have seen a number of deals announced in the third quarter, why aren't these translating into revenues in Q4?

好的，謝謝。我實際上想繼續討論同樣的主題，即您的第四季度指南。我想，根據毛利率，我們可以看出，北美以外的其他市場的季節性也低於正常水平。我們已經看到第三季宣布了許多交易，為什麼這些交易沒有轉化為第四季的收入？

I think we have deals every quarter. And the announcement of this every quarter and the pacing of this and the rollout are somewhat different depending on the different contracts we have, of course. And having that, that is our best judgment of what we can see for the near term here in the fourth quarter, given in the guidance that we have given this time that we are coming out on a high note in Q3. And that's why we bring a little bit lower seasonality compared to the average of the last three years. So that is what we are trying to say here.

我認為我們每個季度都有交易。當然，每個季度都會宣布這一消息，以及推出的節奏會有所不同，具體取決於我們擁有的不同合約。考慮到這一點，這是我們對第四季度近期情況的最佳判斷，根據我們這次給出的指導，我們將在第三季度表現出色。這就是為什麼我們的季節性比過去三年的平均值要低一些。這就是我們在這裡想說的。

And just remember, the AT&T contract was announced, I believe, in November last year and started to be impacting late Q2 and into Q3. So I think when you see an announcement in Q3 that you expect that to impact Q4 is -- takes also normally a bit longer, to be honest.

請記住，AT&T 合約是在去年 11 月宣布的，並開始影響第二季末和第三季。因此，我認為，當您在第三季度看到一項公告時，您預計會影響第四季度，老實說，通常也需要更長的時間。

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

好的。感謝您的澄清。

Felix Henriksson, Nordenia.

菲利克斯·亨里克森，諾德尼亞。

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I have a couple of quick ones on cost and margin. And firstly, on OpEx. Can you please provide any color on OpEx developments heading into the fourth quarter of the year? And do you still expect the H2 OpEx to be roughly stable when you compare it to the first half OpEx? And secondly, on the gross margin side, could you please confirm and quantify the benefit for Q3 from these onetime items related to the new IPR deal as well as the commercial settlement? Thanks.

您好，感謝您提出我的問題。我有幾個關於成本和利潤的快速問題。首先，在營運支出上。您能否提供有關今年第四季營運支出發展的任何資訊？與上半年的營運支出相比，您是否仍認為 H2 營運支出大致穩定？其次，在毛利率方面，您能否確認並量化與新智慧財產權交易以及商業和解相關的一次性項目對第三季的效益？謝謝。

Yes. Let me start then with OpEx. We mentioned the last quarter report here that the second half of the year would be similar to the first half and that remains. It might be slightly higher, but depending on, we had a bit of a better result.

是的。讓我從營運支出開始。我們在這裡提到上一季度報告稱下半年將與上半年類似，這一點仍然存在。它可能會稍高一些，但根據具體情況，我們得到了更好的結果。

So it depends a bit on the provisioning on bonuses here, but reasonably in line with what we said after Q2 and gross margin here in Q3. When we look at the impact from the retroactive part of the IPR and the customer settlement. It is around a percentage point, so to say, adding to the margin here in Q3.

因此，這在一定程度上取決於此處的獎金撥備，但與我們在第二季和第三季之後所說的毛利率相當一致。當我們考慮知識產權追溯部分和客戶和解的影響。可以說，這大約是一個百分點，增加了第三季的利潤率。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Terence Tsui, Morgan Stanley.

徐特倫，摩根士丹利。

Thank you, Daniel, and good morning, everyone. My question is just on India, please. Can you elaborate on how you see performance in this region developing? Obviously, 2024 has been quite tough with sales declining quite sharply after a very strong 2023. But now you've got some new contract agreements on Vodafone Idea and also (inaudible) do you see sales rebounding materially in 2025? And can you add just how you see gross margins and how they've been evolving in the (inaudible)? That would be really useful. Thank you.

謝謝你，丹尼爾，大家早安。我的問題只是關於印度。能否詳細說明您如何看待該地區的表現發展？顯然，2024 年是相當艱難的，在2023 年非常強勁之後，銷售額急劇下降。大幅反彈嗎？您能否補充一下您對毛利率的看法以及它們在（聽不清楚）中的演變？那真的很有用。謝謝。

Thanks, Terence. I think it's fair to say that we try to guide for '25 when we have better visibility. So we'll come back in that in the Q4 setting. So wait a quarter on that. But what I can say about India from two aspects.

謝謝，特倫斯。我認為可以公平地說，當我們有更好的能見度時，我們會嘗試為 25 年提供指導。所以我們將在第四季度的設置中再次討論這一點。所以等一下吧。但我可以從兩個方面來評價印度。

The first one being, of course, we have -- it's encouraging when we have contract wins and footprint wins. So those are important. I would also say that India is in a heavy phase of digitalization, the digitalizing the country, the use of the networks are growing very fast. The rollout of fixed wireless access is happening, driving up need for capacity. So what I do see is that longer term, the market, of course, was heavy in '23 with all the rollouts and the large part of that being a service revenue for us into '24, where it's been much more cautious and it will -- whether that's normalized.

第一個當然是——當我們贏得合約和贏得足跡時，這是令人鼓舞的。所以這些很重要。我還要說，印度正處於數位化的嚴重階段，國家數位化、網路的使用成長非常快。固定無線存取的推出不斷增加對容量的需求。因此，我確實看到的是，從長遠來看，市場當然在 23 年充滿了所有的推出，其中很大一部分是我們進入 24 年的服務收入，在那裡它變得更加謹慎，並且它將— —這是否正常化。

But I think longer term, it's going to grow from this level because that's what's going to be needed then if it happened in one quarter versus another, that is ultimately in the hands of the customers. But we see it's a very important market for us, and we think it's going to be bigger in the future than we see just now. If you look at the margin, I'm not going to comment on because you get into almost Pacific customer margins. So I don't want to do that, and we've never done it before. So we'll not do it now.

但我認為從長遠來看，它將從這個水平增長，因為如果它發生在一個季度與另一個季度相比，這就是所需要的，最終掌握在客戶手中。但我們認為這對我們來說是一個非常重要的市場，我們認為未來它會比我們現在看到的更大。如果你看一下利潤率，我不會發表評論，因為你幾乎獲得了太平洋客戶的利潤率。所以我不想這樣做，而且我們以前從未這樣做過。所以我們現在不這樣做。

But the one thing that we have worked on a lot over the past is actually the past several years but even more so since it was clear that India would roll out is to make sure that we have a global track on our products as much as possible.

但我們過去做了大量工作的一件事實際上是過去幾年，但更重要的是，因為很明顯印度將推出，以確保我們的產品盡可能地在全球範圍內進行追蹤。

So what's happening now is that we could actually bring -- and that didn't happen in January 1 of '23 when we started. But over time, it did where we actually could bring that more harmonized track. So we have a lower mix sensitivity today than we've had before. So without commenting specifically on India's margin, it does help in the overall setting. And I will say in the end of last year, if this would have been 10 years ago, we would have been struggling on gross margin.

所以現在發生的事情是我們實際上可以帶來——而這在 23 年 1 月 1 日我們開始時並沒有發生。但隨著時間的推移，它確實讓我們能夠帶來更協調的軌道。所以我們今天的混合靈敏度比以前低。因此，儘管不具體評論印度的利潤率，但它確實對整體環境有所幫助。我會在去年年底說，如果這是十年前，我們的毛利率將會陷入困境。

So I think we've created more resilience in that sense into our business, and that's what we expect to help us in the future as well.

因此，我認為我們已經在這個意義上為我們的業務創造了更多的彈性，這也是我們期望在未來幫助我們的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Didier Scemama, Bank of America.

迪迪埃·斯塞馬瑪，美國銀行。

Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I've got two very quickly, as a follow-up to the previous question, and it's maybe for Borje. Clearly, the gross margins have improved to your point, structurally, but I think it's hard to deny that the quarter was clearly benefiting from a very good geographical mix.

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。作為上一個問題的後續，我很快就得到了兩個，可能是為了 Borje。顯然，從結構上看，毛利率已經改善到你的觀點，但我認為很難否認該季度顯然受益於非常好的地域組合。

And to the previous question, obviously, India is going to come back next year. So I just wondered, could you give us a sense Borje of what you think your, like, let's say, normalized range of gross margin is going forward given the structural improvements you've made. And I've got a quick follow-up on OpEx.

對於上一個問題，顯然，印度將於明年回歸。所以我只是想知道，Borje，您能否讓我們了解一下您的想法，比如說​​，考慮到您所做的結構性改進，您的毛利率正常化範圍將會向前發展。我對營運支出進行了快速跟進。

Yes. I think we need to think about how we also guide going forward, right? So let's come back on that when we talk about a much more longer-term development, I do think that we put the company on a very different structural gross margin.

是的。我認為我們需要考慮如何指導前進，對嗎？因此，讓我們回到這一點，當我們談論更長期的發展時，我確實認為我們使公司的毛利率結構非常不同。

If you compare it to before 2018 and go earlier, I think we're substantially up and that we're up because of investments in technology into driving -- actually using technology to drive down costs on our side and increasing the software content. These are trends that's not going to stop. They will continue and exactly what's the right target. Let's come back to that.

如果你將其與 2018 年之前進行比較，我認為我們已經大幅上升，並且我們的上升是因為在技術驅動方面的投資——實際上是使用技術來降低我們這邊的成本並增加軟體內容。這些趨勢不會停止。他們將繼續前進，而這正是正確的目標。讓我們回到這一點。

But I think it's -- I think we, as a company, should do a better job explaining also how we think about this because it also relates to softwarization of the network. We will be selling more software in the future and software content of our products will go up, right?

但我認為，作為一家公司，我們應該更好地解釋我們如何看待這個問題，因為它也與網路的軟體化有關。未來我們會賣更多的軟體，我們產品的軟體含量也會增加，對吧？

And that will structurally help gross margins may structurally hurt top line a bit but will help gross margins. So I think we're in that transition, and that's why (inaudible) it's hard to be specific now, but let's come back to it.

這將在結構上提高毛利率，可能會在結構上損害營收，但會提高毛利率。所以我認為我們正處於這種轉變之中，這就是為什麼（聽不清楚）現在很難具體說明，但讓我們回到正題。

I can only speak for myself, but I think if you could give more, let's say, give a more quantified guidance on revenue and margin, if not for the quarter, at least for the year, I think that would be incredibly helpful. And then my follow-up quickly is going back to a comment you made earlier on the call on OpEx. I think you will be some inflationary pressures because you need to invest in the business, et cetera, in calendar year '25, is the right base to compare -- is it like low SEK80 billion of OpEx (inaudible) way to think about it for next just like sort of the base to grow? Or is there any sort of restructuring costs, also cost savings initiatives that need to come out or impact the P&L in a positive way?

我只能代表自己說話，但我認為如果您能提供更多，比如說，對收入和利潤率提供更量化的指導，即使不是本季度，至少是今年，我認為這將非常有幫助。然後我的後續行動很快就會回到您之前在 OpEx 電話會議上發表的評論。我認為你會面臨一些通膨壓力，因為你需要在 25 日曆年投資業務等，這是比較的正確基礎 - 是不是像低 800 億瑞典克朗的運營支出（聽不清）的思考方式接下來就像某種成長的基礎？或者是否有任何類型的重組成本以及成本節約措施需要推出或以積極的方式影響損益？

I understand your question. But as we mentioned, we don't want to guide. But the inflationary pressure we're going to continue to work with offsetting. And then there might be dedicated investments in part of the R&D portfolio, et cetera. So that's a little bit how we look upon it. But that will require probably more activities to reduce the cost base during -- also during next year. So those are, I'd say, the three things to think about.

我明白你的問題。但正如我們所提到的，我們不想指導。但我們將繼續努力抵銷通膨壓力。然後可能會對部分研發組合等進行專門投資。這就是我們的看法。但這可能需要更多的活動來降低成本基礎，包括明年。我想說，這些都是需要考慮的三件事。

Okay. Just one quick one. Sorry, if I may. Just the disposal of the announcement of the disposal of the iconectiv business in the US. Can you tell us the revenue contribution as this business gets sold off in (inaudible)

好的。就快一點吧。抱歉，如果可以的話。剛剛發布了出售iconectiv美國業務的公告。您能否告訴我們該業務在（聽不清楚）被出售時的收入貢獻

No, we have not shared that. It's part of the agreement we have done, but we have given some indications. And I think our team at the IR can support you on that as well. And then when we do the divestment is finalized, then we can share more clearly what the numbers would look like.

不，我們還沒有分享這一點。這是我們已經達成的協議的一部分，但我們已經給出了一些指示。我認為我們 IR 的團隊也可以在這方面為您提供支援。然後當我們完成撤資後，我們就可以更清楚地分享這些數字。

Okay, brilliant. Thank you.

好吧，太棒了。謝謝。

Thanks for the question. That's all we have time for today. So thanks, everyone, for joining the call. That concludes today's conference call.

謝謝你的提問。這就是我們今天的全部時間。謝謝大家加入這次電話會議。今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thanks, everyone. Thank you.

謝謝大家。謝謝。