Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (ERIC) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's presentation of Ericsson's second-quarter 2024 results. Today, Börje Ekholm, our President and CEO, joins us by video; and Lars Sandström, Chief Financial Officer, is here in the studio with me.

大家好，歡迎收聽今天愛立信2024年第二季業績發表會。今天，我們的總裁兼執行長 Börje Ekholm 透過視訊加入我們；財務長拉爾斯桑德斯特姆 (Lars Sandström) 和我一起在工作室裡。

As usual, we'll have a short presentation followed by Q&A. And then in order to ask a question, you'll need to join the conference by phone. Details can be found in today's earnings release and on the Investor Relations website.

像往常一樣，我們將進行簡短的演示，然後進行問答。然後，為了提出問題，您需要透過電話加入會議。詳細資訊可以在今天的收益報告和投資者關係網站上找到。

Please be advised that today's call is being recorded and that today's presentation may include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on our current expectations and certain planning assumptions, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. The actual results may differ materially due to factors mentioned in today's press release and discussed in the conference call. We encourage you to read about these risks and uncertainties in our earnings report as well as in our annual report.

請注意，今天的電話會議正在錄音，並且今天的演示可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述是基於我們目前的預期和某些計劃假設，這些假設存在風險和不確定性。由於今天的新聞稿中提到的以及電話會議中討論的因素，實際結果可能會存在重大差異。我們鼓勵您在我們的收益報告以及年度報告中閱讀有關這些風險和不確定性的信息。

I'll now hand the call over to Börje and Lars for their introductory comments.

現在我將把電話轉交給 Börje 和 Lars，請他們發表介紹性意見。

Thanks, Daniel, and good morning, everyone. First, I'd like to cover some of the key highlights from the quarter before Lars really goes through all the financials in more detail.

謝謝丹尼爾，大家早安。首先，在拉斯真正更詳細地了解所有財務數據之前，我想介紹本季的一些關鍵亮點。

So in Q2, we continue to work with our customers and focus on leveraging our leading technology as well as optimizing our business through our strategic initiatives, which, of course, includes our cost reduction actions that we have taken. All these actions made it possible to deliver a very strong performance, and we saw an expansion of gross margin despite a very challenging overall run and mobile networks market.

因此，在第二季度，我們繼續與客戶合作，專注於利用我們的領先技術，並透過我們的策略舉措優化我們的業務，其中當然包括我們採取的成本削減行動。所有這些行動使得我們能夠提供非常強勁的業績，儘管整體運作和行動網路市場非常具有挑戰性，但我們還是看到了毛利率的擴大。

So gross margin for the group came in at 43.9%, and this was supported by the proactive actions and our competitive portfolio. It was, for course, positively impacted by a new 5G licensing agreement, and we're now clearly on track to deliver our SEK12 billion to SEK13 billion revenue target for IPR for 2024.

因此，集團的毛利率為 43.9%，這得益於積極的行動和我們有競爭力的產品組合。當然，新的 5G 授權協議對其產生了積極影響，我們現在顯然有望實現 2024 年知識產權收入 120 億瑞典克朗至 130 億瑞典克朗的目標。

Our IPR portfolio clearly illustrates how our technology leadership is creating value. Let me also briefly touch upon the impairment we recorded last week; this relates mainly to Vonage and reflects lower anticipated market growth rates in Vonage portfolio. However, the strategic rationale for the Vonage acquisition remains and that is really to create new ways to monetize the network capabilities and the network features. And long term, we see this to be crucial for the telecom industry. And actually, if we cannot generate the extra revenues from the features of the network, it's very hard to justify the future investments in later generations as well. So we believe this is a critical initiative for us and for the industry.

我們的智慧財產權組合清楚地說明了我們的技術領先地位如何創造價值。讓我也簡單談談我們上週記錄的減損情況；這主要與 Vonage 有關，反映出 Vonage 產品組合的預期市場成長率較低。然而，收購 Vonage 的策略理由仍然存在，那就是創造新的方式來將網路功能和網路功能貨幣化。從長遠來看，我們認為這對電信業至關重要。事實上，如果我們無法從網路的功能中產生額外的收入，就很難證明未來對後代的投資是合理的。因此，我們相信這對我們和整個產業來說都是一項重要舉措。

Network APIs and the global network platform we're creating remain central to this portfolio and out to this strategy, and we continue to see good traction. We have two additional mobile operator partnerships announced in Q2, and we are now at the 12 in total. But let's move to the next slide and look at the market development.

我們正在創建的網路 API 和全球網路平台仍然是該產品組合和該策略的核心，我們繼續看到良好的吸引力。我們在第二季宣布了另外兩家行動電信商合作夥伴關係，目前總數已達 12 個。但讓我們轉到下一張投影片看看市場發展。

In Q2, we saw North America returning to growth for the first time actually since 2022. This was, of course, driven by the end of the inventory adjustments that we had predominantly last year and into the beginning of this year, but it's also driven by some larger customers selectively increasing their network investments. We benefited also from the recent and large contract wins that we announced late last year. And we started to have some deliveries in Q2, but that will provide further support during H2 this year. But when you look at the rest of the market areas, we see they're all declining, so it's really a challenged market environment.

在第二季度，我們看到北美自 2022 年以來首次恢復成長。其網絡投資。我們也受益於我們去年年底宣布的最近贏得的大型合約。我們在第二季開始交付一些產品，但這將為今年下半年提供進一步的支援。但當你看看其他市場領域時，我們發現它們都在下降，所以這確實是一個充滿挑戰的市場環境。

In Europe and Latin America, sales decreased by 3%. And that's in -- and I would highlight here and this is in contrast to what many of you on the outside think; we're actually seeing a sharply increased competition from Chinese vendors that includes both in Europe, but particularly in Latin America.

在歐洲和拉丁美洲，銷售額下降了3%。這就是——我想在這裡強調一下，這與你們許多外部人士的想法形成鮮明對比；事實上，我們看到來自中國供應商的競爭急劇加劇，其中包括歐洲供應商，但尤其是拉丁美洲供應商。

In Southeast Asia, Oceania, and India, sales decreased by 44%. This follows a normalization in India compared to the record pace 5G rollout of last year.

在東南亞、大洋洲和印度，銷售額下降了44%。與去年創紀錄的 5G 部署速度相比，印度已正常化。

And finally, both Northeast Asia, Middle East, and Africa saw declining sales due to slowdown in operator investments and additional macro pressure.

最後，由於營運商投資放緩和額外的宏觀壓力，東北亞、中東和非洲的銷售額均下降。

With that, I would say it's time for Lars to go through the numbers more in detail.

說到這裡，我想說，現在是拉斯更詳細研究這些數字的時候了。

All right. Thank you, Börje. Let me start by adding a few additional points on a group before discussing the segments in more detail. Organic sales declined by 7% in the quarter, and this was primarily driven by networks. Some of our larger customers in North America did selectively increase their investments supporting return to sales growth in this key market, but our other markets declined. And as a Börje already highlighted, we delivered good expansion in our adjusted gross margin at 43.9% in Q2. This benefited from our strategic actions on cost as well as strong IPR revenue.

好的。謝謝你，伯傑。在更詳細地討論各個部分之前，讓我先在一個群組中添加一些額外的要點。本季有機銷售額下降 7%，這主要是由網路推動的。我們在北美的一些較大客戶確實有選擇地增加了投資，以支持這個關鍵市場的銷售成長，但我們的其他市場卻出現了下滑。正如 Börje 已經強調的那樣，我們在第二季調整後的毛利率實現了良好的擴張，達到 43.9%。這得益於我們在成本方面的策略行動以及強勁的智慧財產權收入。

Also, as Börje mentioned, we signed a new IPR contract in the quarter, which include some retroactive revenue, and reported OpEx was significantly distorted by the Vonage impairment charges in Q2. In the slide, you can see the underlying development. Including the impairment, OpEx was up by SEK1.2 billion year on year. Saving from our cost actions were balanced by salary increases and higher bonus accruals, and we also increased investments in two areas: in R&D, for technology leadership and operational resiliency; and in SG&A, to drive operational efficiency in enterprise.

此外，正如 Börje 所提到的，我們在本季度簽署了一份新的知識產權合同，其中包括一些追溯收入，並且報告稱，第二季度的 Vonage 減值費用嚴重扭曲了運營支出。在幻燈片中，您可以看到底層的開發。包括減損在內，營運支出較去年同期成長 12 億瑞典克朗。我們的成本行動所節省的成本透過加薪和更高的應計獎金來平衡，我們也增加了在兩個領域的投資：研發，以實現技術領先和營運彈性；在SG&A 方面，提高企業的營運效率。

We are continuing to take action on cost, including sizing our organization to serve the new level of customer demand. And we recently announced, or recently concluded the union negotiations in Sweden on planned headcount reductions. Adjusted EBITA increased to SEK4.1 billion in the quarter with the margin of 6.8%. With that, let's move to the segments. Next slide, please.

我們將繼續在成本方面採取行動，包括調整我們的組織規模，以滿足新水準的客戶需求。我們最近宣布或最近結束了瑞典關於計劃裁員的工會談判。本季調整後 EBITA 增至 41 億瑞典克朗，利潤率為 6.8%。有了這個，讓我們進入細分市場。請下一張投影片。

In networks, organic sales were down by 11% year on year as customers continue to be cautious with their investments. The largest slowdown was in India following the rapid 5G build-out last year. But as I already mentioned, we did see return to growth in North America with sales up 20%. And there were also a benefit from the new IPR licensing agreements signed in the quarter, which included a retroactive element.

在網路領域，由於客戶對投資持續持謹慎態度，有機銷售額較去年同期下降 11%。繼去年 5G 快速建設之後，印度的成長放緩幅度最大。但正如我已經提到的，我們確實看到北美地區恢復成長，銷售額成長了 20%。本季度簽署的新知識產權許可協議也帶來了好處，其中包括追溯要素。

We generated strong adjusted gross margin of 46.1% with a favorable business mix, IPR licensing revenue, and cost actions all contributing. Adjusted EBITA increased to SEK5.3 billion compared to SEK4.9 billion last year, and we reached an EBITA margin of 14.9%. The increase in EBITA was delivered despite lower sales and despite significant headwinds from salary increases and bonus accruals. This shows the benefit of our cost actions, technology leadership, and competitive product portfolio.

我們的調整後毛利率高達 46.1%，得益於良好的業務組合、智慧財產權授權收入和成本行動。調整後 EBITA 增加至 53 億瑞典克朗，去年為 49 億瑞典克朗，我們的 EBITA 利潤率為 14.9%。儘管銷售額下降，且加薪和應計獎金面臨巨大阻力，但 EBITA 仍實現成長。這顯示了我們的成本行動、技術領先地位和有競爭力的產品組合的優勢。

In segment, cloud software and services, we continue to execute on our strategy to strengthening delivery performance and commercial discipline. Organic sales were stable year on year, with slight growth in core, offset by lower sales in other parts of the portfolio. We delivered an adjusted gross margin of 47.2%, and EBITA margins continue to improve on a rolling basis.

在雲端軟體和服務領域，我們持續執行加強交付績效和商業紀律的策略。有機銷售額較去年同期穩定，核心業務略有成長，但被產品組合其他部分銷售額的下降所抵銷。我們的調整後毛利率為 47.2%，EBITA 利潤率持續滾動改善。

As I already mentioned, our IPR revenues increased to SEK3.9 billion in the quarter with the new agreement, and we continue to see further growth opportunities with additional 5G agreements and potential to expand into additional licensing areas. The revenue run rate is now at SEK12 billion, so we are on track to reach a target of SEK12 billion to SEK13 billion for 2024. The timing of growth will vary as we seek to optimize the value of new agreements. Next slide, please.

正如我已經提到的，透過新協議，我們的智慧財產權收入在本季度增加至39 億瑞典克朗，我們繼續看到更多的成長機會，包括額外的5G 協議和擴展到更多授權領域的潛力。目前營收運行率為 120 億瑞典克朗，因此我們預計在 2024 年實現 120 億至 130 億瑞典克朗的目標。請下一張投影片。

In enterprise, sales were broadly stable overall. Sales increased in enterprise wireless solutions with good customer demand for private seller network solutions. The sales also increased in technologies and new businesses. Sales in global communications platform declined, impacted by decisions to reduce activities in some countries, which we talked about last quarter, as well as the low margin customer contract loss from Q4.

企業方面，銷售整體穩定。由於客戶對私人賣家網路解決方案的需求良好，企業無線解決方案的銷售額有所成長。科技和新業務的銷售額也有所成長。全球通訊平台的銷售額下降，受到我們上季度談到的減少某些國家活動的決定以及第四季度低利潤客戶合約損失的影響。

Adjusted gross margin increased to 51.1%, with improved margins in all business areas. Adjusted EBITA was a loss of SEK1.2 billion with higher adjusted gross income offset by higher operating expenses. The operating expenses increase was mainly in global communications platform for two reasons: first, a non-cash accounting impact from the discontinuation of capitalization of development expenses. This started already in Q1, and we expect this to have approximately SEK1 billion negative impact on OpEx this year. And second, increased investments in operations so we can efficiently meet contractual and regulatory requirements. And in addition, as Börje already mentioned, we continue to invest in the global network platform for network APIs. Then let's move to next, please.

調整後毛利率增加至 51.1%，所有業務領域的利潤率均有所提高。調整後 EBITA 虧損 12 億瑞典克朗，調整後總收入的增加被營運費用增加所抵銷。營運費用增加主要發生在全球通訊平台，原因有二：首先，開發費用停止資本化帶來的非現金會計影響。這已經從第一季開始，我們預計這將對今年的營運支出產生約 10 億瑞典克朗的負面影響。其次，增加營運投資，以便我們能夠有效地滿足合約和監管要求。此外，正如 Börje 已經提到的，我們繼續投資網路 API 的全球網路平台。那我們就進入下一個吧。

Turning to free cash flow that which was SEK7.6 billion before M&A in the quarter. This strong improvement compared to last year is a result of significant improvement in working capital. This benefited from favorable change in market mix, substantial reduction inventory levels, and lower accounts receivables due to lower sales volume. There was also a benefit from inflow of the SEK1.9 billion related to the one-time gain we reported in Q1. So net cash increased sequentially by SEK2.3 billion here to SEK13.1 billion.

至於自由現金流，本季併購前為 76 億瑞典克朗。與去年相比的強勁改善是營運資本顯著改善的結果。這得益於市場結構的有利變化、庫存水準大幅下降以及銷售下降導致的應收帳款減少。我們在第一季報告的一次性收益也帶來了 19 億瑞典克朗的流入帶來的好處。因此，淨現金環比增加了 23 億瑞典克朗，達到 131 億瑞典克朗。

Next, I will cover the outlook. So turning first to sales, we have delivered above normal seasonality in Q2, both in networks and cloud software and services by around 4 percentage points in network and in cloud software and services, so we have a bit of a higher starting point. We expect to carry this outperformance into the second half, so normal seasonality is a good assumption for Q3 for both segments. And as you know, we will benefit from North America growth, but overall market conditions remain challenging with our customers remaining to be cautious with their investments. And in enterprise, we expect sales to be further impacted by our decision to reduce operations in some countries.

接下來，我將介紹一下展望。因此，首先轉向銷售，我們在第二季度的網路和雲端軟體和服務方面的表現都高於正常的季節性，大約高出 4 個百分點，因此我們的起點更高一些。我們預計下半年將維持這種優異表現，因此正常季節性是這兩個細分市場第三季的良好假設。如您所知，我們將從北美的成長中受益，但整體市場狀況仍充滿挑戰，我們的客戶仍對其投資持謹慎態度。在企業方面，我們預計我們減少在某些國家/地區業務的決定將進一步影響銷售。

And then turning to profitability, in networks, we expect Q3 gross margins to be in the range of 45% to 47%. And as mentioned before, the total market is in decline, but we will benefit from continued growth in North America, but also in the other hand, we will not have the IPR benefit.

然後轉向獲利能力，在網路方面，我們預計第三季毛利率將在 45% 至 47% 之間。如同先前所提到的，整個市場正在下降，但我們將受益於北美的持續成長，但另一方面，我們也不會獲得智慧財產權方面的好處。

Finally, on OpEx, it's worth nothing that we won't see the usual seasonality this year because of the changes in facing here. And as we will also start to see further benefits from our cost actions later in the year.

最後，在營運支出上，由於這裡面臨的變化，我們今年不會看到通常的季節性，這是毫無價值的。今年晚些時候，我們也將開始看到我們的成本行動帶來的進一步好處。

With that, I will hand back to you, Börje.

這樣，我就將交還給你，Börje。

Thanks, Lars. So to conclude, we're facing a tough market environment at the moment. However, I would say the results in Q2 underscore the underlying strength in our business as well as our competitive portfolio. Going forward, we remain fully focused on executing on our strategy to strengthen leadership in mobile networks, driving a focused expansion into enterprise, and pursue a cultural transformation.

謝謝，拉爾斯。總而言之，我們目前面臨嚴峻的市場環境。然而，我想說第二季的結果強調了我們業務的潛在優勢以及我們的競爭性產品組合。展望未來，我們將繼續全力執行我們的策略，以加強在行動網路領域的領導地位，推動重點向企業擴張，並追求文化轉型。

We continue to leverage our technology leadership while prudently managing our business. The actions we've taken, including our focus on costs, will allow us to keep investments critical to protect our leadership position and long-term competitiveness. This will ensure that Ericsson remains well-positioned going forward.

我們繼續利用我們的技術領先地位，同時審慎管理我們的業務。我們所採取的行動，包括對成本的關注，將使我們能夠保持對保護我們的領導地位和長期競爭力至關重要的投資。這將確保愛立信在未來保持有利地位。

At the same time, for the industry to grow long term, it's necessary to find new revenue streams for our customers beyond the mobile broadband subscriptions. We need to create new opportunities to monetize the networks and the investments our customers making the networks through differentiated offerings. And that's where our enterprise strategy is targeting. And network APIs is, of course, one of the key opportunities for us.

同時，為了使該行業實現長期成長，有必要為我們的客戶尋找行動寬頻訂閱以外的新收入來源。我們需要創造新的機會，透過差異化的產品將網路和客戶對網路的投資貨幣化。這就是我們企業策略的目標。當然，網路 API 是我們的關鍵機會之一。

Of course, creating a market, a new monetization models, and the associated ecosystem will take time, but we are seeing some very good traction. So our vision to become a leading networks and enterprise platform is unchanged. The foundation in the strategy is and will remain our leading mobile networks business. And here, we will, of course, take every action needed to a store that we keep our leading position as well as our strong cost position and competitive position in the industry.

當然，創建市場、新的貨幣化模式以及相關的生態系統需要時間，但我們看到了一些非常好的牽引力。因此，我們成為領先的網路和企業平台的願景並沒有改變。該策略的基礎現在是並將繼續是我們領先的行動網路業務。在這裡，我們當然會採取一切必要的行動來保持我們在行業中的領先地位以及強大的成本地位和競爭地位。

With that, Daniel, I think we're ready to take all your questions.

丹尼爾，我想我們已經準備好回答你的所有問題了。

Thanks, Börje. And we'll now move to Q&A. (Event Instructions) Superb. I can see the first question on the line is from Francois Bouvignies from UBS. Francois, your line is now open. Please go ahead.

謝謝，伯傑。現在我們將進入問答環節。 （活動說明）太棒了。我看到第一個問題是瑞銀集團的 Francois Bouvignies 提出的。弗朗索瓦，您的線路現已開通。請繼續。

Thank you very much. So my question would be on the slide 8 that you show in the presentation where you show the adjusted EBITA margin and adjusted gross margin. So what we see in the chart, we can clearly see, I think, a correlation between gross margin and EBITA margin since 2022, and I checked in '19, '21, and '20, I think it's the same correlation directionally. But for some reason from Q4 '23, we see the gross margin going up, but the EBITA margin going down, and I was wondering why. Because we see the -- in Q2, for example, the top line increasing, so it should help to scale. You have to the North America increasing should help the mix. And you have the IPR, which is almost all-time high, which should help the margins. So I'm wondering why you have a disconnection between the gross margin and EBITA margins since the beginning of the year. That would be my question, please.

非常感謝。所以我的問題是在簡報中顯示的幻燈片 8 上，其中顯示了調整後的 EBITA 利潤率和調整後的毛利率。所以我們在圖表中看到的，我認為，我們可以清楚地看到自2022 年以來毛利率和EBITA 利潤率之間的相關性，我檢查了“19”、“21”和“20”，我認為這是相同的方向相關性。但由於某種原因，從 23 年第四季開始，我們看到毛利率上升，但 EBITA 利潤率下降，我想知道為什麼。例如，因為我們看到第二季的收入正在增加，所以它應該有助於擴大規模。你必須增加北美的收入，這應該有助於混合。而且你擁有幾乎歷史最高的智慧財產權，這應該有助於提高利潤。所以我想知道為什麼自年初以來毛利率和息稅折舊攤提前利潤率之間存在脫節。這是我的問題，謝謝。

Thanks, Francois. I'll pass it to Lars.

謝謝，弗朗索瓦。我會把它傳給拉斯。

Thanks. I think, it is that we have somewhat higher cost base compared to what we had a couple of years ago when it comes to -- especially on the R&D side, we have had increased the level of data now is this is on a quarterly basis, so it's not a rolling 12. So that's why the significant lower revenue base is also impacting quite a lot on the OpEx ratio there. So that is what is so taking you through and also somewhat higher. The difference there from coming from the enterprise business that is impacting to some extent as well compared to where we were in 2022. So if you do the same looking at the pure mobile networks and the enterprise side, you see it's a bit, little bit different.

謝謝。我認為，與幾年前相比，我們的成本基礎有所提高，特別是在研發方面，我們現在增加了數據水平，這是按季度計算的，所以這不是滾動的12。顯著降低也會對營運支出比率產生很大影響。這就是帶領你經歷的，也是更高的。與 2022 年的情況相比，來自企業業務的差異也在一定程度上產生了影響。

Do you move cost of sales into OpEx at all? I mean, because when I look at this chart, I think you are -- in the year, the cost base, and you always invested a lot in OpEx increasing R&D in the last few years. So why would you invest even more now than before?

您是否將銷售成本轉入營運支出？我的意思是，因為當我查看這張圖表時，我認為您在這一年中，成本基礎，並且您在過去幾年中總是在運營支出增加研發方面投入了大量資金。那為什麼你現在要比以前投資更多呢？

It is not more, it's the relative. With a significantly lower revenue base that impacts the ratios. It's not more cost purse in absolute and levels in that sense. It's the revenue that gives the impact.

這不是更多，而是相對。收入基礎顯著降低，影響了比率。從絕對意義上講，這並不是更多的成本錢包和水平。產生影響的是收入。

Think about --

想一想 -

(inaudible) Thank you.

（聽不清楚）謝謝。

I think you should think about it a little bit of a different way. Our off base is in reality base to drive the competitiveness. It depends on which markets we're in, as well as our R&D intensity. And the R&D is driven by the future, so it's actually oriented towards in here than programmable network. So we are there to lead into developing the programmable network for the future that allowed us to win with AT&T. So that win in reality doesn't translate to revenues until time after we make the investments.

我認為你應該以不同的方式思考這個問題。我們的基地實際上是提高競爭力的基地。這取決於我們所處的市場以及我們的研發強度。而且研發是由未來驅動的，所以它實際上是面向這裡而不是可編程網路。因此，我們致力於引領未來可編程網路的開發，使我們能夠贏得 AT&T 的勝利。因此，實際上，直到我們進行投資之後，這種勝利才會轉化為收入。

So what you see right now is a situation where sales have fallen, and we have kept the R&D intensity to be able to compete in the future and be successful longer term. So you will get this. It's not that the cost base can follow revenues in R&D because that's simply not -- it doesn't become the relevant timing to think about it.

所以你現在看到的是銷量下降的情況，但我們保持了研發強度，以便能夠在未來競爭並取得長期成功。所以你會得到這個。這並不是說成本基礎可以跟隨研發收入，因為這根本不是——它沒有成為考慮它的相關時機。

Understood. Thank you very much.

明白了。非常感謝。

Great. Thanks for the question, Francois. We're now ready for the next question. So the next question will come from Alex Duval at Goldman Sachs. Alex, your line will now be open. Please go ahead.

偉大的。謝謝你的提問，弗朗索瓦。我們現在準備好回答下一個問題。因此，下一個問題將來自高盛的亞歷克斯·杜瓦爾。亞歷克斯，您的線路現已開通。請繼續。

Yes, good morning. Alex Duval. Thank you very much in the question. In your report, you state what normal seasonality is like on top line. I'm curious to what extent one should take this modeling purposes as of right quarter-on-quarter growth rate to the next few quarters? Clearly, you have the AT&T win. But then in your report, you talked about some of the dynamics in markets like Europe being tough. I'm just trying to understand if AT&T should be added on top of that seasonality or if that's already included? Many thanks.

是的，早安。亞歷克斯·杜瓦爾。非常感謝你的提問。在您的報告中，您在頂行說明了正常的季節性是什麼樣的。我很好奇人們應該在多大程度上將這種建模目的視為未來幾季的正確季度環比成長率？顯然，您贏得了 AT&T 的勝利。但在您的報告中，您談到了歐洲等市場的一些動態。我只是想了解 AT&T 是否應該添加到季節性之上，或者是否已經包含在內？非常感謝。

Sure. Lars, I think one for you.

當然。拉斯，我想一個適合你的。

I think, what we say in Q3 here is we show the seasonality and having -- and that is including the growth rate that we see in North America. And then of course, we have a weaker situation in all regions outside North America. So that's why we say that the seasonality is probably a good indicator for Q3.

我認為，我們在第三季所說的是我們展示了季節性和擁有性，其中包括我們在北美看到的成長率。當然，我們在北美以外的所有地區的情況都較弱。這就是為什麼我們說季節性可能是第三季的一個很好的指標。

Very helpful, thank you.

非常有幫助，謝謝。

Thanks, Alex. Thanks for the question. We can move onto the next question now. So that will come from Andreas Joelsson at Carnegie. Andreas, your line will now be open. Please go ahead.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。謝謝你的提問。我們現在可以進入下一個問題。這將來自卡內基的安德烈亞斯·喬爾森 (Andreas Joelsson)。安德烈亞斯，您的線路現已開通。請繼續。

Thanks a lot, Daniel. Follow-up on the former -- or the previous question, but maybe give a little bit more flavor into the various regions on the network side. And so North America, I understand the improvement is a sort of a mix between the AT&T contract and improvement from others. But how do you see that play out going forward? Are the customers a little bit more forward-leaning now than a year ago perhaps? And then also on the other regions, except the obvious headwind from India, where do you see the main reason for the customers holding back their investments currently? Thanks.

非常感謝，丹尼爾。前一個問題或前一個問題的後續，但可能會為網路方面的各個區域帶來更多的風味。因此，在北美，我理解這種改進是 AT&T 合約和其他改進的結合。但您如何看待未來的發展？現在的客戶是否比一年前更具前瞻性？那麼在其他地區，除了來自印度的明顯阻力之外，您認為客戶目前推遲投資的主要原因在哪裡？謝謝。

Börje, maybe one, this is we can pass to you and you can give a little bit of flavor around the various markets. Thanks.

Börje，也許是一個，這是我們可以傳遞給您的，您可以在各個市場上提供一點風味。謝謝。

Yeah. If we start in the US, we had a big inventory adjustment, and that really came out of the big supply chain disturbances from COVID. So our customers built up a larger-than-normal inventory levels that started to be deeply did fully in the beginning of this year, which has led to a bit of this, call it normalization in our sales. We're also seeing, of course, some customers here. And the investment levels in the market has been very, very low for number of years, following the rapid build-out of Z-band.

是的。如果我們從美國開始，我們會進行一次大規模的庫存調整，這實際上是由於新冠疫情對供應鏈造成的巨大干擾。因此，我們的客戶建立了高於正常水平的庫存水平，並在今年年初開始充分利用，這導致了這種情況，稱之為我們的銷售正常化。當然，我們也在這裡見到了一些客戶。隨著 Z 頻段的快速發展，多年來市場的投資水準一直非常非常低。

So as network capacity starts to be used, we are seeing a different discussion. But I don't want to say that this is a term; that's too early. But as you can see, at least it's a positive indication that sales start to come back. So, no, let's continue to focus on the longer term. This market is ultimately going to come back, but it will, and we have said that for quite some time, but don't be too optimistic every quarter. Let's put it that way.

因此，隨著網路容量開始使用，我們看到了不同的討論。但我不想說這是一個術語；那還太早了。但正如您所看到的，這至少是銷售開始回升的積極跡象。所以，不，讓我們繼續專注於長期目標。這個市場最終會回來的，但它會回來的，我們已經說過很長一段時間了，但每個季度都不要太樂觀。這麼說吧。

If you look outside of North America, overall, I would say, this is a problem in the industry where our customers, if you will generalize, and that's not entirely accurate because you have some customers doing better than others. But if you look as an industry, return on capital employed has been under pressure for quite some time. That has driven our customers to actually cut down investments and [sweat] assets, which is something you can do for a period of time.

如果你看看北美以外的地區，總的來說，我想說，這是我們的客戶所在行業的一個問題，如果你概括的話，這並不完全準確，因為有些客戶比其他客戶做得更好。但如果你從一個產業的角度來看，所使用的資本報酬率在相當長一段時間內一直面臨壓力。這促使我們的客戶實際上減少了​​投資和[汗水]資產，這是你可以在一段時間內做的事情。

The good thing for us is the traffic continues to grow, continues to grow at a very healthy rate. And I would even argue now that we overlay decline, do you now that we overlay fixed wireless access, for example, we see actually growth rat coming back in the networks as well, quite a lot of, again, quite positive. That win, either you get deteriorating customer experience, so customers basically can't use the network. And therefore, you are going to -- see the investments come back. But the overall industry problem remains, which is really that, unless we can monetize of the new capabilities of the network. It doesn't really become a new source of revenue for the operators, and thus, marginal investments will only be done to manage capacity in the network.

對我們來說，好處是流量持續成長，持續以非常健康的速度成長。我甚至會說，現在我們覆蓋了下降，例如，現在我們覆蓋了固定無線接入，我們實際上看到網路中的成長率也回來了，相當多，再次非常積極。這場勝利，要么導致客戶體驗惡化，導致客戶基本上無法使用網路。因此，您將看到投資回報。但整個產業的問題仍然存在，確實如此，除非我們能夠利用網路的新功能貨幣化。它並沒有真正成為營運商的新收入來源，因此，邊際投資只會用於管理網路容量。

If you're going to see this kind of rollout of 5G, we actually need to see new monetization start to come. And that's why we are excited about our enterprise efforts in both in enterprise wireless solutions, where we see a fairly healthy growth rate, but also into network APIs, where we have a real opportunity to create this the market. We're starting to see very good traction on getting supply sorted out; that's what our partnerships do. And we are seeing in emerging interest from application developers. Still early; it will take time, but that was needed. So overall, the industry is actually in a very difficult spot.

如果你要看到這種 5G 的推出，我們實際上需要看到新的貨幣化開始出現。這就是為什麼我們對企業在企業無線解決方案方面的努力感到興奮，我們看到了相當健康的成長率，而且在網路 API 方面我們也有真正的機會來創建這個市場。我們開始看到解決供應問題的良好動力；這就是我們的合作夥伴所做的。我們看到應用程式開發人員越來越感興趣。還早;這需要時間，但這是必要的。所以總體來說，這個行業其實處於一個非常困難的境地。

And then if I look a little more globally, of course, India had a very rapid rollout last year, and that is tapering off like we have said, and that's what we see there. So that, again, underlying traffic continues to grow, et cetera, but that's why you see the slowdown.

然後，如果我再放眼全球，當然，印度去年的推廣速度非常快，但正如我們所說，這種推廣正在逐漸減少，這就是我們在那裡看到的情況。因此，基礎流量再次持續成長，等等，但這就是您看到流量放緩的原因。

If you look outside, you see a bit of a macro challenge in Africa and parts of Middle East, where predominantly Africa as currency movements, et cetera, that actually makes it very painful for our customers; same parts of Latin America. So when you look at it, this is subdued environment right now where let's, I think for us, it's -- that's why we're a bit prudent in our planning and say that we need to control what we can control on our side. That is work on the cost side.

如果你向外看，你會發現非洲和中東部分地區面臨一些宏觀挑戰，其中主要是非洲的貨幣波動等，這實際上讓我們的客戶感到非常痛苦；拉丁美洲的相同地區。因此，當你看到它時，現在的環境很壓抑，我認為對我們來說，這就是為什麼我們在計劃中有點謹慎，並說我們需要控制我們可以控制的事情。這是成本方面的工作。

Perfect. That is very helpful. And may I also wish a great summer.

完美的。這非常有幫助。我也希望有個美好的夏天。

Thank you. Same to you.

謝謝。你也一樣。

Thanks for the question, Andreas. And we're now ready to move to the next question. So the next question will come from Andrew Gardiner at Citi. Andrew, your line should now be open. Please go ahead.

謝謝你的提問，安德烈亞斯。我們現在準備好進入下一個問題。下一個問題將來自花旗銀行的安德魯·加德納。安德魯，你的線路現在應該開通了。請繼續。

Thank you, Daniel. Good morning, all. If I could just two quick follow-ups on the last point that you're making, Börje. First on the US, you can I take it that when you say quite selective investment. You weren't really expecting it. It's come to a short lead time orders from customers, patch refill, and a little bit of capacity here and there where they needed it, but they're not yet giving you visibility beyond AT&T, perhaps, which is obviously quite specific that they're not the result really giving you visibility into the sustainability of that into the second half. Is that a fair characterization?

謝謝你，丹尼爾。大家早安。如果我能對你提出的最後一點進行兩次快速跟進，Börje。首先在美國，我可以認為你說的是相當有選擇性的投資。你並沒有真正期待它。客戶的訂單交貨時間很短，補丁重新填充，並且在他們需要的地方到處都有一點容量，但他們還沒有給你超越 AT&T 的可見性，也許，這顯然是非常具體的，他們'這個結果並不能真正讓你了解下半年的可持續性。這是一個公平的描述嗎？

Yeah, that's a fair characterization. But I would say though that given the -- when you have -- if you operate, in rolling out, tried to keep that relatively constant and they've been buying less from us to deplete their own inventories. That just needed to adjust. Bit of that is what you see.

是的，這是一個公平的描述。但我想說的是，考慮到——當你有——如果你在推出時，試圖保持相對穩定，他們從我們這裡購買的東西減少了，以耗盡他們自己的庫存。這只是需要調整。這就是你所看到的。

Okay. And then also on the point made, particularly in Europe and Latin America, where you're seeing increased competition from the Chinese vendors once again, do you feel like you're losing share as a result of this competitive activity? Or are you able to hold share, but perhaps it's coming at the expensive pricing margin?

好的。然後，關於所提出的觀點，特別是在歐洲和拉丁美洲，您再次看到來自中國供應商的競爭加劇，您是否認為這種競爭活動導致您失去了份額？或者你能夠持有股份，但也許它的定價利潤很高？

We like to be managing our overall pricing and profitability and gross margin. So it will all depend on specific situations. I'm sure we will lose some, but we'll do that because we think it's right for the overall gross profit in the company. So don't expect us to be the most aggressive in the market.

我們喜歡管理我們的整體定價、獲利能力和毛利率。所以這一切都取決於具體情況。我確信我們會損失一些，但我們會這樣做，因為我們認為這對公司的整體毛利是正確的。因此，不要期望我們成為市場上最積極的。

Understood, thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Thanks for the question, Andrew. So we'll now move onto the next question. That will come from the line of Sandeep Deshpande from JPMorgan. Sandeep, your line should now be open. Please go ahead.

謝謝你的提問，安德魯。現在我們將討論下一個問題。這將來自摩根大通的 Sandeep Deshpande 家族。 Sandeep，您的線路現在應該已開通。請繼續。

Thank you, Daniel. My question is on your IPR deals in the first two quarters. You've had two deals in Q1 and one in Q2 as well. What has been the one-offs associated with these deals? And what is the ongoing run rate associated with the idea that this? Then I would have a quick follow-up after that.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。我的問題是關於你們前兩個季度的智慧財產權交易。您在第一季達成了兩筆交易，在第二季也達成了一筆交易。與這些交易相關的一次性事件是什麼？與此想法相關的持續運行率是多少？然後我會進行快速跟進。

Lars?

拉爾斯？

We don't comment on this. They have always have, as you know, a retroactive part and then it's forward-leaning. But you can see the jump in revenue. That is, of course, partly to large part explained by the one-off there. And for the run rate, we are at around SEK12 billion now coming out of Q2. And as we said, we are -- the target of SEK12 billion to SEK13 billion is well-enriched.

我們對此不予評論。如你所知，他們總是有追溯的部分，然後又是前瞻性的。但你可以看到收入的跳躍。當然，這在很大程度上是由那裡的一次性事件解釋的。就運行率而言，第二季的運行率約為 120 億瑞典克朗。正如我們所說，120 億至 130 億瑞典克朗的目標非常豐富。

Okay, thank you. And my follow-up is quickly at the United States and the US market. You've seen this recovery in the US market. Is this mainly coming from that the US market now those inventories of parts we're holding are not there anymore, or is it that they are actually that's starting up new projects that there are some new movement in terms of where the investment (inaudible) or it is to do with the inventory replacement or AT&T new contract?

好的謝謝。而我的後續行動很快就是美國和美國市場。您已經在美國市場看到了這種復甦。這主要是來自美國市場，現在我們持有的零件庫存已經不存在了，還是他們實際上正在啟動新項目，在投資方面有一些新的動向（聽不清）還是與庫存更換或AT&T 新合同有關？

Börje, maybe we can pass that one over to you.

Börje，也許我們可以把這個交給你。

Yeah, I think it's a fair to say it's a combination of those, right? But that's why we also say let's not -- we know that the investment level has been -- if you look at the underlying traffic growth and the growth of fixed wireless access, we know that traffic has grown. So that requires a certain level of investments. So we knew that, but we had the inventory adjustment. And of course, now that they have run out of room to adjust that, they need to buy a bit more from us. So that's one thing that's clearly happening, but we are also seeing that they need to manage the network quality.

是的，我認為可以公平地說這是這些的結合，對嗎？但這就是為什麼我們也說不要——我們知道投資水平一直是——如果你看看潛在的流量增長和固定無線接入的增長，我們就知道流量已經增長。所以這需要一定程度的投資。所以我們知道這一點，但我們進行了庫存調整。當然，既然他們已經沒有空間來調整了，他們需要從我們這裡購買更多的東西。這是明顯正在發生的一件事，但我們也看到他們需要管理網路品質。

And that's what give us quite comfort. You'll have a bit of a cyclical behavior in the investments. If you look historically, we've been at the low point. And now that starts to come back, that's a bit what we should expect. And of course, you have the big contract win as of last year that starts to contribute in Q2, but it will be more in H2.

這就是帶給我們很大安慰的原因。您的投資會有一些週期性行為。如果你回顧歷史，我們一直處於低點。現在這種情況開始回歸，這是我們應該期待的。當然，去年贏得的大合約開始在第二季度做出貢獻，但在下半年會更多。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Sandeep. We can move now to the next question. The next question on the line will come from Joachim Gunell from DNB. Joachim, your line should now open.

謝謝，桑迪普。我們現在可以進入下一個問題。下一個問題將由 DNB 的 Joachim Gunell 提出。約阿希姆，您的線路現在應該開通了。

Thank you. So can you just comment a bit on where you are in India and the US in relation to what you would consider normalized sales levels at this stage?

謝謝。那麼，您能否簡單評論一下您在印度和美國的現階段正常銷售水平的情況？

Sure. Börje, do you want to provide some high-level thoughts on those two markets? Thanks.

當然。 Börje，您想提供一些關於這兩個市場的高層想法嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. If you look at the US, I mean, the -- we think if you look historically, we're at the lower end of more of a normal cycle, that's what we feel. India is more normalized now.

是的。如果你看看美國，我的意思是，我們認為如果你從歷史角度來看，我們正處於正常週期的低端，這就是我們的感受。印度現在更加正常化了。

Understood. And if I may just a quick commentary in light of the competitive environment, comments you made, what is your view of the component availability situation for your Chinese competitors?

明白了。如果我可以根據競爭環境做一個簡短的評論，您發表的評論，您對中國競爭對手的組件供應情況有何看法？

The honest answer is they should comment on that. But at least we see them quite aggressive in the market. And ultimately, it's a choice customers will have to make, right? How do you think about the network resilience decisions for the future, et cetera. It's really in the customers have to choose. This is more a comment that we see them increasingly aggressive.

誠實的答案是他們應該對此發表評論。但至少我們看到他們在市場上相當激進。最終，這是客戶必須做出的選擇，對吧？您如何看待未來的網路彈性決策等？這確實是客戶必須選擇的。這更多的是我們看到他們越來越咄咄逼人的評論。

Thank you, and have a great summer.

謝謝你，祝你夏天愉快。

Thank you. The same to you.

謝謝。彼此。

Thanks for the question, Joachim. We'll move on to the next question, which is going to come from the line of Daniel Djurberg at Handelsbanken. Please go ahead, Daniel.

謝謝你的提問，約阿希姆。我們將繼續討論下一個問題，該問題將由德國商業銀行的 Daniel Djurberg 提出。請繼續，丹尼爾。

Thank you, Daniel, and hi, Börje and Lars. I would like to just ask a little bit to give a healthy network gross margin ambition here for Q3, 45%, 47%. My question is if it's also relevant to see this positive similar uptake also for Q4 or into next year on back of the mix you expect? That's the first question.

謝謝丹尼爾，嗨，伯杰和拉爾斯。我想問一下第三季健康的網路毛利率目標，45%、47%。我的問題是，在第四季度或明年，在您期望的組合的支持下，看到這種積極的類似吸收是否也相關？這是第一個問題。

As you know, we all -- we have the uncertainty going forward on volumes, et cetera, so that's why we try to keep and stay onto the Q3; that's where we guide now with a 45% to 47%. And so, it is -- the cost on the positive side, we have the course of activities that we are doing that is helping us, but we also have a downturn in the market in total that we -- when you do the calculation and the seasonality in Q4 you see. So that our -- so I'd say the big impact. So we don't see that we should give you a guidance going after Q3. But that's why we are cautious still.

如您所知，我們所有人 - 我們在銷售等方面都存在不確定性，因此這就是我們試圖保持並留在第三季度的原因；這就是我們現在指導的 45% 到 47%。因此，積極的一面是成本，我們正在進行的活動對我們有幫助，但我們的市場總體也處於低迷狀態，當你進行計算時，你看到的第四季度的季節性。所以我想說的是，影響力很大。因此，我們認為我們不應該在第三季之後為您提供指導。但這就是我們仍然保持謹慎的原因。

I see. The first follow-up on the harsher competition in the subset. Is it mainly your number one competitor you're away is it also more broad based set the Samsung feeds that are also more aggressive? Or is it mostly than the one?

我懂了。關於該子集中更激烈的競爭的第一個後續行動。您離開的主要是您的第一大競爭對手嗎？還是說大部分都比這個多？

It's -- you're seeing an aggressive, I mean, a competitive market, right, that I think it's fair to say. And we're more mentioning the -- I've gotten the impression over the last few months that everyone thinks that the Chinese vendors are kind of disappeared, and that's not true. That's why we want to bring it up. It's always been very competitive, right? So but I almost felt that everyone thinks they're gone, and that's not true.

我認為公平地說，你看到的是一個競爭激烈的市場，對吧。我們更提到的是——在過去的幾個月裡，我得到的印像是，每個人都認為中國供應商已經消失了，但事實並非如此。這就是我們想提出這個問題的原因。競爭一直都很激烈，對吧？所以，但我幾乎感覺到每個人都認為他們已經走了，但事實並非如此。

I should go to Barcelona in February, I guess. And then we'll learn. Okay. Thanks. I have a great summer.

我想我應該在二月去巴塞隆納。然後我們就會學習。好的。謝謝。我度過了一個美好的夏天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks for the question, Daniel. We'll move on to the next question now, please. So the next question is going to come from Erik Lindholm at SEB. Erik, your line should now be open.

謝謝你的提問，丹尼爾。我們現在將繼續討論下一個問題。下一個問題將由 SEB 的 Erik Lindholm 提出。艾瑞克，你的線路現在應該開通了。

Yes, thank you, and good morning, everyone. So you mentioned taking some cost actions here in both enterprise and outside enterprise. Is it possible to quantify these actions and what it should mean for the second half, especially maybe in the light of not expecting normal OpEx seasonality? Thank you.

是的，謝謝大家，大家早安。所以你提到在企業和外部企業中採取一些成本行動。是否可以量化這些行動以及它對下半年意味著什麼，尤其是考慮到營運支出不會出現正常的季節性？謝謝。

Sure.

當然。

And just to have a little bit on the guidance before we dive into the -- as we said, the normal seasonality, you should not -- it does not really apply since we are continuous having an impact on the cost reductions, but they are, on the other end, we have salary inflation coming. And also, last year, we had rather or very low provisioning for incentive. So those sorts of say counterbalancing.

在我們深入研究之前，先了解指導——正如我們所說，正常的季節性，你不應該——它並不真正適用，因為我們持續對成本削減產生影響，但它們是，另一方面，我們的薪資通膨即將到來。而且，去年我們的激勵撥備相當或非常低。所以這些都是說平衡。

And then we have some dedicated investments in the R&D area, so that is a little bit just to try to help you to understand. So if you look at H1, where we also had the similar development with cost out or offset by salary increases and provisionings that we see that for the remainder, half of the year as well.

然後我們在研發領域有一些專門的投資，所以這只是為了幫助您理解。因此，如果你看看上半年，我們也有類似的發展，成本支出或被加薪和撥備所抵消，我們看到在今年剩餘的時間裡，也就是半年也是如此。

All right. Any comment on where you're taking out costs, which areas sort of thing in both enterprise and outside enterprise?

好的。對於您在哪些方面削減成本、企業內部和外部企業的哪些領域有什麼評論嗎？

Yeah. So I think the cost basis, of course, significantly larger in the mobile network side. And we need to adapt to -- we are still in a declining market, so that requires us to adapt accordingly over time. So we don't point out a specific area. It is broad based in the different markets and activities where we are active.

是的。所以我認為成本基礎當然在行動網路方面明顯更大。我們需要適應——我們仍然處於衰退的市場中，所以這要求我們隨著時間的推移做出相應的調整。所以我們不指出特定區域。它在我們活躍的不同市場和活動中具有廣泛的基礎。

All right, thank you.

好吧。

Great. Thanks for the question, Erik. We will now move on to the next question. The next question will come from the line of Sami Sarkamies from Danske Bank. Sami, your line is now open. Please go ahead.

偉大的。謝謝你的提問，艾瑞克。我們現在將繼續討論下一個問題。下一個問題將來自丹斯克銀行的薩米·薩卡米斯（Sami Sarkamies）。薩米，您的線路現已開通。請繼續。

Hi, thanks. I would actually like to continue on the cost topic we just discussed. Could you provide additional color on the OpEx development that during the second quarter and provide some color on outlook for the rest of the year? If you look at second quarter, OpEx was somewhat higher than what you had guided for. It seems that the enterprise was offering some sort of surprise here. And then why have you chosen not to provide OpEx guidance for the third quarter as point has been customary in the past?

你好謝謝。我實際上想繼續討論我們剛才討論的成本話題。您能否對第二季度的運營支出發展提供更多信息，並對今年剩餘時間的前景提供一些信息？如果你看看第二季度，營運支出略高於你的預期。看來企業在這裡要帶給大家某種驚喜。那麼，為什麼您選擇不按照過去的慣例提供第三季的營運支出指引呢？

Yeah. So if you look at the cost in the second quarter on the guidance that we gave for the mobile networks part is actually not so far off, but we had some additional investments in the R&D side there. Then we had higher costs on the enterprise side where, as I mentioned, we are not -- we have stopped capitalizing R&D. So that is around SEK1 billion on an annual basis. We already did that already, we started that already in Q1. So that continues for the rest of the year.

是的。因此，如果你看看第二季的成本，我們為行動網路部分提供的指導實際上並不遙遠，但我們在研發方面進行了一些額外的投資。然後我們在企業方面的成本更高，正如我所提到的，我們沒有——我們已經停止資本化研發。因此每年約 10 億瑞典克朗。我們已經這樣做了，我們在第一季就開始了。因此，這種情況將持續到今年剩餘時間。

And then we have some higher costs and investments that we are doing connected to some of the market exits, but also to increase operational efficiency and ensure that we are following all -- following the development when it comes to different regulations, et cetera. So that is building some cost in the enterprise part. So the big deviation here actually in Q2 is more connected to that.

然後，我們正在做一些與某些市場退出相關的更高的成本和投資，同時也是為了提高營運效率並確保我們遵循一切 - 遵循不同法規等方面的發展。這就是在企業部分建立一些成本。因此，第二季度的大偏差實際上與此更多相關。

And then going forward, we took out the seasonality because we see that it doesn't really apply here. We see more of a no-stable cost development. You can say, compare, if you look at from the first half of this year, so where we have continued cost out activities delivering, but also then that is offset by somewhat salary inflation and some higher provisioning. So that is more to help you to see what is happening on the enterprise side. So there you are, stable on the cost base going into the rest of the second half.

然後，我們去掉了季節性，因為我們發現它在這裡並不適用。我們看到更多的是不穩定的成本發展。你可以說，比較一下，如果你從今年上半年來看，我們繼續成本支出活動交付，但隨後又被一定程度的工資上漲和一些更高的撥備所抵消。所以這更多的是幫助你了解企業端正在發生什麼。因此，下半年的成本基礎保持穩定。

Okay, thanks. And have a follow-up on IPR licensing guidance. I mean, if we do the math, you're basically already at that SEK13 billion for the full-year run rate amounted to SEK12 billion as you discussed. Why we've chosen not to raise the IPR licensing guidance? You did mention that there is still a possibility for additional deals.

好的謝謝。並跟進知識產權許可指導。我的意思是，如果我們計算一下，您基本上已經達到了 130 億瑞典克朗，而全年運行率達到了您所討論的 120 億瑞典克朗。為什麼我們選擇不提高知識產權授權指導意見？您確實提到仍有可能進行額外交易。

Yes, we aim to get the best economic outcome of any agreements that we are working on. So therefore, we keep so to keep the guidance now for the SEK12 billion to SEK13 billion for the full year. And then if there's more to come, we will announce that.

是的，我們的目標是在我們正在製定的任何協議中獲得最佳的經濟成果。因此，我們目前維持全年 120 億至 130 億瑞典克朗的指引。如果還有更多內容，我們將宣布。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Superb. Thanks for the question, Sami. And just as a clarification, in terms of the base, think about the H1 in terms of overall OpEx when we talk about similar sorts of levels rather than single quarter. Just to clarify on that, in case it's helpful.

高超。謝謝你的提問，薩米。作為澄清，就基數而言，當我們談論類似的水平而不是單一季度時，請從整體營運支出的角度考慮上半年。只是為了澄清這一點，以防有幫助。

Superb. Ready to move to the next question. That's going to come from Joseph Zhou at Barclays. Joe, your line is now open. Thank you.

高超。準備好進入下一個問題。這將來自巴克萊銀行的周約瑟夫。喬，您的線路現已開通。謝謝。

Hi, thank you. Thanks for taking my questions. And my first one is on the gross margin for network business. And so it's at a good level. And if I look at some -- the business historically, only in 2021, you had a kind of a higher gross margin at around, I think something like 47%, and you're guiding to 45% to 47% for Q3. And obviously, there is an element of the structure improvement with IPR. But my question is, is it as good as it gets in the second half when you have this kind of around 47% gross margin considering in 2021, you obviously had a very, very high level of sales in North America was five-year out. And having a safe to say we are not going back to that level of volume. And so, is that a fair understanding that this level of gross margin is as good as it gets or am I missing anything?

嗨，謝謝你。感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個是關於網路業務的毛利率。所以它處於一個很好的水平。如果我看一下歷史上的一些業務，僅在 2021 年，毛利率就較高，我認為約為 47％，並且您對第三季度的指導為 45％ 至 47％。顯然，知識產權有一個結構改進的因素。但我的問題是，考慮到 2021 年毛利率約為 47%，下半年的情況是否會像下半年一樣好，五年後，北美的銷售水準顯然非常非常高。可以肯定地說，我們不會回到那個交易量水準。那麼，這樣的毛利率水平是否已經達到最佳水平，這是一種公平的理解，還是我錯過了什麼？

No, it's a good question. We, of course, quite happy with the margins that we saw now and also what we're trying to guide for here. It is good levels, as you say. If it's as good as it gets, that's we are continuously working to improve, but it is reaching a good or a high level now I would say.

不，這是一個好問題。當然，我們對現在看到的利潤以及我們在這裡試圖指導的內容感到非常滿意。正如你所說，這是很好的水平。如果它已經達到了最好的水平，那就是我們正在不斷努力改進，但我想說它現在已經達到了良好或高的水平。

And also, there you should think about where are we going as an industry, right? You will see less hardware, more software. So as you think about the longer term, the product mix hasn't changed dramatically now, but that's going to look different as we move forward.

而且，你應該思考我們作為一個產業將走向何方，對吧？你會看到更少的硬件，更多的軟體。因此，從長遠來看，產品組合現在並沒有發生巨大變化，但隨著我們的前進，情況將會有所不同。

That's very clear, thank you. And my small follow-up n IPR. Just the and the new contract, I can assume it's a with a, say, a Chinese smartphone maker that's you probably didn't have a kind of 4G or 5G license with. Is that fair to assume?

這非常清楚，謝謝。還有我的智慧財產權後續行動。就新合約而言，我可以假設它是與一家中國智慧型手機製造商簽訂的，您可能沒有 4G 或 5G 許可證。這樣假設公平嗎？

We normally don't disclose this kind of contracts, but we will see if there is -- if there is, will you see. But normally, we don't share who we share sign up contracts with.

我們通常不會披露此類合同，但我們會看看是否有——如果有，你會看到嗎？但通常情況下，我們不會透露我們與誰簽訂了合約。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

Thanks for the question, Joe. We'll move to the next question. The next question is going to come from Felix Henriksson from Nordea. Felix, your line should now be open.

謝謝你的提問，喬。我們將轉向下一個問題。下一個問題將由來自 Nordea 的 Felix Henriksson 提出。菲利克斯，你的線路現在應該開通了。

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I wanted to touch on the game plan for Vonage and global communications platform. We've now had the write-down on the or about organic. It's been negative, and the business loss-making. So just wanted to hear your thoughts about the timeline. So when do you have to achieve profitable growth in this business area to be somewhat satisfied with the acquisition here?

您好，感謝您提出我的問題。我想談談 Vonage 和全球通訊平台的計畫。我們現在已經對有機產品進行了減記。這是負面的，而且業務虧損。所以只是想聽聽你對時間表的想法。那麼，您何時必須在該業務領域實現獲利成長，才能對這裡的收購感到滿意呢？

Superb. Lars, do you want to start with any financial comments, albeit probably limited on our side. And Börje, we can talk a little bit about the strategic rationale as well?

高超。拉爾斯，您想先發表一些財務評論嗎？ Börje，我們也可以談談策略原理嗎？

No, I think we are continuously working with managing the current business and improving that, and that will require a return to growth. There has been some decisions now to step out of some of the low-margin deals that we have had and then to get back to a more of a profitable growth in, especially in the global content and communication platform part, whereas enterprise-wide solutions there. So that's more full steam ahead and to capture the opportunities there. So that is clearly in the targets.

不，我認為我們正在不斷努力管理當前業務並改善業務，這將需要恢復成長。現在已經做出了一些決定，退出我們已經進行的一些低利潤交易，然後恢復更多的盈利增長，特別是在全球內容和通信平台部分，而企業範圍的解決方案那裡。因此，我們需要更加全力以赴並抓住那裡的機會。這顯然在目標中。

I will not give you a timeline today on that, but that is what we are definitely working on. And I think then for you, Börje, to add a little bit on the full longer-term picture.

今天我不會給你一個時間表，但這就是我們正在努力的方向。我想，Börje，你應該在整個長期圖景上添加一點內容。

Yeah. I think, if we start on the global net per platform, the it was down into buckets, right? It's a strategic reason why we acquired Vonage, and that's what we are actually investing in. So we need to manage the existing business better than we have; that's for sure. But we have also seen a decline in growth rates that we didn't expect or didn't plan for; that's to be to honest. And that I think is what you see on the current performance. What we are trying to do still is actually the North Star or if you put it that way; that's to build a new marketplace for network APIs.

是的。我認為，如果我們從每個平台的全球網路開始，那麼它就會陷入困境，對嗎？這是我們收購 Vonage 的策略性原因，也是我們實際投資的方向。這是肯定的。但我們也看到了成長率的下降，這是我們沒有預料到或沒有計劃的；說實話。我認為這就是你在當前表現中看到的。我們正在努力做的實際上仍然是北極星，或者如果你這麼說的話；那就是為網路 API 建立一個新的市場。

And when we talk about network APIs becomes a technical language, but think about it that you can have 3D positioning, for example, you have the new ways of authenticating devices, you have speed on demand. If you have a broadcasting income rather uses capacity, they can actually order the capacity with milliseconds latency. There are a number of these things that are now started to be implemented. That's a new way for the industry to drive new type of revenue source the industry has not had.

當我們談論網路 API 成為一種技術語言時，但想想你可以有 3D 定位，例如，你有驗證設備的新方法，你有按需速度。如果您有廣播收入而不是使用容量，他們實際上可以以毫秒延遲訂購容量。其中有許多事情現在已經開始實施。這是該行業推動前所未有的新型收入來源的新方式。

But in reality, if you simplify a bit, you can say it's monthly subscriptions and it's basically not linking revenues to needed to network investments or to costs in reality. So we think that paradigm has to change. There a part monetization on 5G for operators. You see operators that have rolled out 5G that typically have a bit higher or that they have a bit lower cost so they get actually gross margin expansion. But it's not a new investment case.

但實際上，如果你稍微簡化一下，你可以說它是每月訂閱，它基本上沒有將收入與網路投資所需或現實成本聯繫起來。所以我們認為這種範式必須改變。運營商有部分5G貨幣化。你會看到已經推出 5G 的營運商通常成本較高或較低，因此他們實際上獲得了毛利率的成長。但這並不是一個新的投資案例。

What we can see with network APIs is that we think that is the investment case. That's actually what we are focused on. That's not detract from, we need to run the business better than we have. So that's an element of improvement that we need to do. And that's what Lars said here. We review where we are, what products we offer, how we offer them, et cetera, to actually optimize the current business. But that's also why we talk about. It's actually our focus is on the global network platform, not on the per se, existing business Vonage.

我們對網路 API 的看法是，我們認為這就是投資案例。這其實就是我們關注的重點。這並不影響我們需要比現在更好地經營業務。所以這是我們需要做的改進之一。這就是拉斯在這裡所說的。我們審查我們的位置、我們提供什麼產品、我們如何提供這些產品等等，以實際優化當前業務。但這也是我們談論的原因。實際上，我們的重點是全球網路平台，而不是 Vonage 本身現有的業務。

Then on enterprise wireless solutions, it's full steam ahead. We have a product offering of wireless ones as well as dedicated networks. And we're seeing -- it's been an experimental market so far on dedicated networks, but we're seeing that increasingly pickup with actually some interesting customer wins. So I think it's an emerging market as well. So of course, we're working on to emerging opportunities here, which are will require some more time before you see the contribution in the P&L. But it's all part of the notion; how do we leverage the cellular technology for new applications for driving new revenues to the industry?

然後在企業無線解決方案方面，它正在全力推進。我們提供無線產品和專用網路產品。我們看到，到目前為止，這在專用網路上一直是一個實驗性市場，但我們看到，隨著一些有趣的客戶的贏得，這種市場正在日益增長。所以我認為這也是一個新興市場。當然，我們正在努力尋找新的機會，您需要更多時間才能看到損益表中的貢獻。但這都是這個概念的一部分；我們如何利用蜂窩技術進行新應用，為產業帶來新收入？

Great. Thanks for the question, Felix. We will move on to the next question. The next question will come from the line of Janardan Menon at Jefferies. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

偉大的。謝謝你的提問，菲利克斯。我們將繼續下一個問題。下一個問題將來自傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 的賈納丹梅農 (Janardan Menon)。您的線路現已開通。請繼續。

Hi, good morning, and thanks for taking the question. One question and a short follow-up. The question is on the Q3 gross margin and networks, again, on the 45% to 47%. I'm just wondering what are the specific upward drivers of that gross margin? Because I would calculate roughly between 100 and 200 basis points sort of IPR impact, which you're sort of guiding that you will cover in the current quarter. So is that coming from a better mix because of more US revenue versus sort of low margin revenue? Or is it coming from further cost reduction? That's my first question.

你好，早上好，感謝您提出問題。一個問題和一個簡短的後續行動。問題在於第三季的毛利率和網絡，同樣是 45% 到 47%。我只是想知道毛利率上升的具體驅動因素是什麼？因為我會大致計算 100 到 200 個基點之間的智慧財產權影響，您將在本季介紹這一點。那麼，這是否來自於更好的組合，因為美國的收入更多而不是低利潤收入？還是來自進一步降低成本？這是我的第一個問題。

And a follow-up is, just on the competitive environment, you were talking about Latin America, Africa, et cetera. But in Germany, there was recently some news flow about them up excluding Chinese vendors from their core network. Does that signal any improvement in the European environment, which also you said there has been competitive in the past, more than what the market thinks? Or is that not really yet coming through to the rand side and just still on the core side, et cetera?

後續是，就競爭環境而言，您談到了拉丁美洲、非洲等。但在德國，最近有一些消息指出他們將中國供應商排除在其核心網路之外。這是否顯示歐洲環境有所改善？或者說這還沒有真正進入蘭特方面，而只是仍然在核心方面，等等？

Thanks, Janardan. So Lars, first on the margin drivers into Q3.

謝謝，賈納爾丹。因此，拉斯首先以微弱優勢進入第三季。

And I think you have done the calculation. So let's say, we had a bit of positive impact in Q2. Taking that off, that shows a bit of an underlying improvement. And we have the cost out activities that we expect to support. And then, of course, also bit of the geographical mix, as you mentioned. So I think that is -- you're capturing it rather well in that sense.

我想你已經計算過了。可以說，我們在第二季產生了一些正面的影響。去掉它，這表明了一些潛在的改進。我們有我們期望支持的成本支出活動。當然，正如您所提到的，還有一些地理上的混合。所以我認為——從這個意義上說，你很好地捕捉到了這一點。

And then, of course, on the downside, we have still a declining market that compared to last year. So those are the key components.

當然，不利的一面是，與去年相比，我們的市場仍在下降。這些是關鍵組件。

And on the other question, I think it's better for you, Börje, to give your point of view.

關於另一個問題，Börje，我認為你最好發表你的觀點。

Yeah. I think it's still a bit too early to have a view on what's going to happen in Europe. I -- we saw the legislation being passed or announced. I think we'll have to see how that impacts the market.

是的。我認為現在判斷歐洲將發生什麼事還為時過早。我－我們看到立法被通過或宣告。我認為我們必須看看這對市場有何影響。

Understood, thanks.

明白了，謝謝。

Thanks for the question. We got time just for a couple more questions. So next question will come from the line of Richard Kramer. Richard at Arete, your line is now open. Please go ahead.

謝謝你的提問。我們還有時間回答幾個問題。那麼下一個問題將來自理查德·克萊默（Richard Kramer）。 Arete 的理查德，您的線路現已開通。請繼續。

Thanks very much. Börje, I want to go back to Vonage. And given the further write-downs, which are now over SEK4 billion, I want to ask you, who's ultimately accountable for this level of value destruction, and sort of what conclusions should investors draw that the management has learned lessons from this level of losses, which, I mean, it's really the largest shortly after you arrived in 2017?

非常感謝。 Börje，我想回到 Vonage。考慮到進一步的減記，目前已超過40 億瑞典克朗，我想問一下，誰最終要對這種程度的價值破壞負責，以及投資者應該得出什麼結論，認為管理層已經從這種程度的損失中吸取了教訓，我的意思是，這確實是您在 2017 年抵達後不久的最大的？

And maybe alongside that, with Lars, do you need to adjust your EBITA targets, given that they had been changed from EBIT to EBITA to include the larger amortization post-Vonage, and now you'll obviously have much lower amortization? Thanks.

也許除此之外，對於 Lars，您是否需要調整您的 EBITA 目標，因為它們已從 EBIT 更改為 EBITA，以包括 Vonage 後更大的攤銷，而現在您的攤銷顯然要低得多？謝謝。

No. It's clearly I'm accountable as CEO, no choice about that, so you can have that there. But hold your horses to a bit before you assess the overall transaction until we know if we can create separate new market for network APIs. I think that's where our focus was the whole time. Maybe we have not delivered on the current performance of the existing business, take that; we need to improve that. So let's take a look at this in a few -- once we see how the market for network API pans out.

不。但在評估整個交易之前請先冷靜一下，直到我們知道是否可以為網路 API 創建單獨的新市場。我認為這就是我們一直在關注的焦點。也許我們還沒有實現現有業務的當前業績，接受這一點；我們需要改進這一點。因此，讓我們先來看看網路 API 市場的發展。

And on the EBITA, as you state, we will have less to amortize. But as it does not impact EBITA, it will not impact to the EBIT -- EBITA level as such, but there will be somewhat lower amortization going forward. I think that's also part of the outlook guidance we gave.

至於息稅折舊攤提前利潤（EBITA），正如您所說，我們需要攤提的資金將會減少。但由於它不會影響 EBITA，因此也不會影響 EBIT——EBITA 水平，但未來的攤銷將會降低。我認為這也是我們給出的前景指引的一部分。

Great. Thanks for the question, Richard. And we will move to our final question today. So final question today is coming from the line of Didier Scemama at Bank of America. Didier, your line should now be open. Please go ahead.

偉大的。謝謝你的提問，理查德。今天我們將討論最後一個問題。今天的最後一個問題來自美國銀行的 Didier Scemama。 Didier，您的線路現在應該開通了。請繼續。

Yes, good morning, Daniel. Thank you for taking my question, and good morning, everyone. Just a quick one. It's on this comment you made on increased China competition, our Chinese competition. I've got a simple question. Should we conclude from your commentary and the guidance you've given on revenue and margins that you're happy to give up market share to protect your gross margins? And related to that, if you don't, are you prepared to provide vendor financing in those emerging markets as we've seen in the past, given the FX headwind that some of your customers are facing? Thank you.

是的，早安，丹尼爾。感謝您提出我的問題，大家早安。只是快一點。正是在這個評論中，您對中國競爭加劇，我們中國的競爭發表了評論。我有一個簡單的問題。我們是否應該從您的評論以及您對收入和利潤率給出的指導中得出結論，您願意放棄市場份額以保護毛利率？與此相關的是，如果您不這樣做，考慮到您的一些客戶面臨的外匯逆風，您是否準備好在這些新興市場提供供應商融資，正如我們過去所看到的那樣？謝謝。

Sure. Börje, some high-level thoughts on that one? Thank you.

當然。 Börje，對此有一些高層次的想法嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, there isn't. This is very dependent on how the customer situation looks like. It depends also on choice. I mean, this is overall in the customers' hands. The customers needed to make a choice of vendor balance, what the risk profile they take with different vendor balances, et cetera. So it's very hard to give you a generic answer, right? And then so but I would say for us, what we know is that we need to be able to deliver a healthy gross profit in order to be able to invest in technology leadership.

是的，沒有。這很大程度取決於客戶的情況。這也取決於選擇。我的意思是，這總體上掌握在客戶手中。客戶需要選擇供應商餘額、他們對不同供應商餘額所承擔的風險狀況等等。所以很難給你一個通用的答案，對吧？然後我想說的是，我們知道的是，我們需要能夠提供健康的毛利，以便能夠投資於技術領先地位。

So for us, if that requires us to be disciplined, and we're going to continue to be that on how we take market share. I think you've seen that over the last few years that we've been rather disciplined in managing the overall gross profit of the company. We've been able to do that and still gain market share. So it actually comes back to another question, which is the technology leadership we have with the type of portfolio we can offer. We're actually able to do both.

因此，對我們來說，如果這需要我們遵守紀律，那麼我們將繼續在如何獲得市場份額方面做到這一點。我想你已經看到，過去幾年我們在管理公司的整體毛利方面相當自律。我們已經能夠做到這一點，並且仍然獲得了市場份額。因此，這實際上又回到了另一個問題，即我們在我們可以提供的產品組合類型方面擁有的技術領先地位。我們實際上能夠做到這兩點。

Is that always you can take that for granted? No, you can't. You need to make sure you invest in leadership and invest in the portfolio. And that's why we tried to manage the total business with the gross profit and the need to invest in technology and trading those two of in order, again, to win in the marketplace in the long run.

你總是認為這是理所當然的嗎？不，你不能。您需要確保投資於領導力和投資組合。這就是為什麼我們試圖透過毛利來管理整個業務，並且需要投資技術並進行這兩者的交易，以便再次在市場上長期獲勝。

It's always expensive to give up footprint. I know that, and you know that as well. So we need to manage both. And how it looks will depend on individual situations. But we're not -- unless we get paid for our technology, why should we take an off of a contract?

放棄足跡總是代價高昂的。我知道這一點，你也知道這一點。所以我們需要管理兩者。它看起來如何取決於個人情況。但我們不是——除非我們的技術得到報酬，否則我們為什麼要取消合約？

Thank you. May ask a follow-up?

謝謝。可以問後續嗎？

If it's very brief, Didier. We're just about out of time. Please go ahead.

如果它很簡短，迪迪爾。我們快沒時間了。請繼續。

Very brief. Your main competitor in Europe just acquired an optical vendor to sort of a bigger footprint in data center and sort of AI. I know it's not your focus. How should we think about Ericsson's role, if any, in data center in future? Thank you.

非常簡短。您在歐洲的主要競爭對手剛剛收購了一家光學供應商，以擴大資料中心和人工智慧領域的影響力。我知道這不是你的重點。我們該如何看待愛立信未來在資料中心中的角色（如果有的話）？謝謝。

Yeah. I think that -- I think they're in a very different position than we are. They already have a business there. So for them, it is kind of a rational acquisition. For us, I think that's a market we serve through the access technology, and we are seeing us to directly sell to the data centers is rather unlikely.

是的。我認為——我認為他們的處境與我們非常不同。他們已經在那裡開展業務了。所以對他們來說，這是一種理性的收購。對我們來說，我認為這是我們透過接入技術服務的市場，我們看到我們直接向資料中心銷售的可能性相當小。

Great. Enjoy your summer.

偉大的。享受你的夏天。

Thanks. You, too.

謝謝。你也是。

Superb. That concludes today's conference call. Thanks, everyone, for joining, and we'll catch up after the summer.

高超。今天的電話會議到此結束。謝謝大家的加入，我們會在夏天之後再聚。