Ciena Corporation (CIEN) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us and welcome to Ciena's fFscal Q2 2026 financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) I will now hand the conference over to Gregg Lampf, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

各位好。感謝各位加入，歡迎參加 Ciena 2026 會計年度第二季財務業績電話會議。（接線員指示）現在我將把會議交給投資人關係副總裁 Gregg Lampf。請開始。

Thank you, Tracy. Good morning, and welcome to Ciena's 2026 Fiscal Second Quarter Conference Call. On the call today is Gary Smith, President and CEO; and Marc Graff, CFO. Scott McFeely, Executive Adviser, is also with us for Q&A.

謝謝你，Tracy。各位早安，歡迎參加 Ciena 2026 會計年度第二季電話會議。今天與會者包括總裁暨執行長 Gary Smith，以及財務長 Marc Graff。執行顧問 Scott McFeely 也將出席問答環節。

In addition to this call and the press release, we posted to the Investors section of our website, an accompanying investor presentation that reflects this discussion as well as certain highlighted items in the quarter. Our comments today speak to our recent performance, our view on current market dynamics and drivers of our business as well as discussions of our financial outlook.

除了本次電話會議與新聞稿之外，我們也在公司網站的投資人專區發布了配套的投資人簡報，內容反映本次討論以及本季若干重點事項。我們今天的評論將涵蓋近期表現、對當前市場動態的看法與驅動業務的因素，以及對財務展望的討論。

Today's discussion includes certain adjusted or non-GAAP measures of Ciena's results of operations. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to our GAAP results is included in today's press release. Before turning the call over to Gary, I'll remind you that during this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements.

今天的討論包含若干經調整或非 GAAP 的 Ciena 營運結果衡量指標。這些非 GAAP 指標與 GAAP 結果的調節表已包含在今天的新聞稿中。在把電話交給 Gary 之前，我要提醒各位，本次電話會議中我們將作出若干前瞻性陳述。

Such statements, including our quarterly and annual guidance, commentary on market dynamics and the discussion of our opportunities and strategy, are based on current expectations, forecasts and assumptions regarding the company and its markets, which include risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the statements discussed today.

此類陳述（包括我們的季度與年度指引、對市場動態的評論，以及對機會與策略的討論）係基於對公司及其市場的當前預期、預測與假設，其中包含可能導致實際結果與今日所述內容出現重大差異的風險與不確定性。

Assumptions relating to our outlook, whether mentioned on this call or included in the investor presentation that we posted earlier, are an important part of such forward-looking statements, and we encourage you to consider them. Our forward-looking statements should also be viewed in the context of risk factors detailed in our most recent 10-K and our forthcoming 10-Q.

與我們展望相關的假設（無論是在本次電話會議中提及，或包含在我們先前發布的投資人簡報中）都是此類前瞻性陳述的重要組成部分，我們鼓勵各位加以考量。我們的前瞻性陳述亦應結合我們最新的 10-K 以及即將發布的 10-Q 中所詳述的風險因素一併理解。

Ciena assumes no obligation to update the information discussed in this conference call whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise. As always, we'll allow for as much Q&A as possible today, though we do ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow-up.

Ciena 不承擔更新本次電話會議所討論資訊的義務，無論係因新資訊、未來事件或其他原因所致。照例，我們今天會盡可能安排更多問答時間，但也請各位每人限制為一個問題與一個追問。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Gary.

接下來我把電話交給 Gary。

Thanks, Gregg, and good morning, everyone. Our Q2 performance was once again very strong, reflecting our continued technology leadership, our deep customer relationships and the strength of our business model. In the quarter, we grew the business 40% year-on-year, with revenues of $1.57 billion.

謝謝你，Gregg，各位早安。我們第二季的表現再次非常強勁，反映出我們持續的技術領先地位、深厚的客戶關係，以及我們商業模式的韌性。本季我們的業務年增 40%，營收達 15.7 億美元。

We expanded adjusted gross margin to 44.9%, and we nearly quadrupled the year ago adjusted earnings per share to $1.64. And I'd remind everybody that we delivered these results while navigating unprecedented demand and a constrained supply environment.

我們將經調整毛利率提升至 44.9%，經調整每股盈餘幾乎較去年同期成長近四倍，達到 1.64 美元。我也要提醒各位，我們是在面對前所未有的需求以及供應受限的環境下，仍交出這些成果。

With the combination of a strong and growing backlog driving strong visibility fueled by AI-led demand from both cloud and service providers, coupled with our leading technology portfolio, we are well positioned to gain share and deliver long-term value to our customers and our owners.

在強勁且持續成長的在手訂單（backlog）帶來高度能見度、並由雲端與服務供應商的 AI 驅動需求所推動，再加上我們領先的技術產品組合之下，我們具備良好條件來提升市占，並為客戶與股東創造長期價值。

The breadth and depth of our portfolio positions us to intersect this market growth, as AI drives new opportunities across the WAN and in and around the data center. Our portfolio spans systems, interconnect software, and of course, services. Specifically, systems includes our optical systems as well as our routing and switching platforms.

我們產品組合的廣度與深度，使我們能在 AI 推動的市場成長中切入，涵蓋 WAN 以及資料中心內外的新機會。我們的產品組合橫跨系統、互連軟體，當然也包括服務。具體而言，系統包含我們的光傳輸系統，以及路由與交換平台。

Interconnect is comprised of modules for inter and intra data center connectivity, inclusive of our WaveLogic modems and pluggables as well as co-packaged optics and critical technology components that serve as foundational network building blocks. And of course, our software and services, which helps customers install, automate, operate and optimize their networks at scale.

互連（Interconnect）由用於資料中心間與資料中心內連接的模組所構成，包含我們的 WaveLogic 數據機與可插拔模組（pluggables），以及共封裝光學（co-packaged optics）與作為基礎網路建構模組的關鍵技術元件。當然還有我們的軟體與服務，協助客戶以規模化方式安裝、自動化、營運並最佳化其網路。

Taken together, Ciena's portfolio delivers our customers innovative products to meet a wide variety of high-speed connectivity solutions in the WAN and in and around the data center, with an unmatched competitive offering. So since we spoke to you last in March, the largest hyperscalers have increased their 2026 capital expenditures, with indications of continued expansion into 2027 and beyond.

綜合而言，Ciena 的產品組合為客戶提供創新產品，以滿足 WAN 以及資料中心內外各式各樣的高速連線解決方案，並具備無可匹敵的競爭力。因此，自從我們在三月上次與各位交流以來，最大的超大規模業者（hyperscalers）已提高其 2026 年資本支出，並顯示將在 2027 年及之後持續擴張。

Given the priority to monetize somewhat constrained compute investments, we expect an increasingly larger proportion of that spend will be directed towards network infrastructure. Importantly, service providers are also reinvesting in network infrastructure after several years. This is creating net new opportunities with service providers across long-haul metro and managed optical fiber networks or MOFN.

鑑於其優先要將相對受限的運算投資變現，我們預期其中愈來愈大的支出比例將導向網路基礎設施。重要的是，服務供應商在經過數年後也正重新投資網路基礎設施。這正在為服務供應商於長途、都會，以及受管光纖網路（MOFN）等領域創造淨新增機會。

In fact, they were up 28% for us year-on-year. Simply put, all customers are prioritizing high capacity, low latency and high-speed connectivity, underpinned by the need to transport data for AI, including model training, data ingestion and inference. To that end, our latest view is that the addressable market will approximately double over the next several years to roughly $50 billion by 2029.

事實上，對我們而言，服務供應商相關業務年增 28%。簡而言之，所有客戶都在優先考量高容量、低延遲與高速連線，而其背後的核心需求是為 AI 傳輸資料，包括模型訓練、資料匯入（data ingestion）與推論（inference）。基於此，我們最新的看法是，可服務市場規模在未來數年將約翻倍，至 2029 年約達 500 億美元。

And to be clear, this significant market growth includes our traditional WAN markets and the high-growth markets in and around the data center, both of which we've been strategically investing into in recent years.

需要說明的是，這項顯著的市場成長同時涵蓋我們傳統的 WAN 市場，以及資料中心內外的高成長市場；而這兩者都是我們近年來持續進行策略性投資的領域。

With that, let me add some color on how these dynamics are driving the demand for our line system specifically. The first generation of our intelligent line system, our RLS platform, set the standard for high speed, low latency and power efficient connectivity.

接下來，我補充一些細節，說明這些動態如何特別推動我們線路系統（line system）的需求。我們第一代智慧線路系統 RLS 平台，為高速、低延遲與高能效連線樹立了標準。

The large global installed base of RLS have given us years of deep insights into technology requirements, as well as significant operational expertise and integration experience across both cloud and service provider environments. The resulting collaboration from these experiences has directly informed the development of our next-generation intelligent line system, the RLS hyper-rail.

RLS 龐大的全球裝機基礎，讓我們多年來累積了對技術需求的深刻洞察，以及在雲端與服務供應商環境中的重要營運專業與整合經驗。這些經驗所帶來的協作成果，直接促成我們下一代智慧線路系統——RLS hyper-rail——的開發。

This is a multi-rail solution developed for both the leading hyperscalers and service providers to specifically address the growing capacity and efficiency demands for data center interconnect, scale across architectures and inferencing.

這是一套多軌（multi-rail）解決方案，為領先的超大規模業者與服務供應商所開發，旨在因應資料中心互連（DCI）日益成長的容量與效率需求，並可跨架構與推論工作負載進行擴展。

Co-created with multiple hyperscalers and built on an innovative photonic design, RLS hyper-rail supports multiple fiber pairs in parallel over hundreds of kilometers using advanced amplification. The result is significantly higher density with materially improved space and power efficiency, which is particularly important at intermediary amplifier sites where space and power is limited.

RLS hyper-rail 與多家超大規模業者共同打造，並採用創新的光子設計，透過先進放大技術，支援多對光纖在數百公里距離上並行傳輸。其結果是顯著更高的密度，並在空間與功耗效率上有實質改善；這在中繼放大站點（intermediary amplifier sites）尤為重要，因為那裡的空間與電力資源有限。

Notably this morning, I am pleased to announce that we've been awarded the industry's first multi-rail order from a leading hyperscaler, validating early market demand for our RLS hyper-rail platform and cementing Ciena's position as the industry standard. We are also engaged in discussions with multiple additional hyperscalers, neoscalers and service providers, both domestically and internationally, who continue to lean in and show a level of interest which is exceeding our expectations.

值得注意的是，今天早上我很高興宣布，我們已獲得業界首筆來自某領先超大規模業者的多軌訂單，驗證市場對 RLS hyper-rail 平台的早期需求，並鞏固 Ciena 作為業界標準的地位。我們也正與多家其他超大規模業者、neoscales 以及服務供應商（包含國內與國際）進行討論；他們持續加大投入並展現出超出我們預期的興趣程度。

I also want to touch on our data center out-of-band management solution or DCOM, which combines products from our routing and switching portfolio with our industry-leading PON technology. DCOM, as you can see, is ramping extremely well, which contributed to the 88% year-on-year revenue growth in our Routing and Switching segment.

我也想談談我們的資料中心帶外管理解決方案（data center out-of-band management solution，DCOM）。該方案結合我們路由與交換產品組合，以及業界領先的 PON 技術。如各位所見，DCOM 的放量進展非常順利，並促成我們路由與交換（Routing and Switching）部門營收年增 88%。

We are also expanding the customer base. In addition to Meta, we've received initial orders from a second hyperscaler customer, and lab qualifications are progressing well with a third hyperscaler customer. As AI is driving demand for our systems, it is also creating momentum across our interconnects portfolio. And we are pleased to share with you that we recently secured a new win with a major hyperscaler for our high-performance Coherent modules.

我們也在擴大客戶基礎。除了 Meta 之外，我們已收到第二家超大規模客戶的初始訂單，並且與第三家超大規模客戶的實驗室認證（lab qualifications）進展良好。AI 在推動我們系統需求的同時，也為我們的互連產品組合帶來動能。我們也很高興與各位分享，近期我們以高效能相干（Coherent）模組，拿下某大型超大規模業者的新案。

These will be deployed in scale across in both metro and long-haul DCI network, supporting both WAN and in and around the data center applications. This technology solution was developed in close collaboration with the customer and marks a competitive takeaway win. I also believe it is evidence of our strategy to leverage our systems capability into modules and component forms and addresses the broad range of consumption models that our technology can address.

這些模組將在都會與長途 DCI 網路中大規模部署，同時支援 WAN 以及資料中心內外的應用。此技術解決方案是與客戶密切合作開發，並代表一次具競爭性的替換式勝出（competitive takeaway win）。我也相信，這證明了我們的策略：將系統能力延伸至模組與元件形態，並滿足我們技術可支援的廣泛採購與使用模式。

We also continue to see strong demand from hyperscalers for our 400 gig and 800 gig pluggables, and we remain on track to more than double our pluggable revenue from 2025. Additionally, we have another first win, with a major switch OEM to use our market-leading WaveLogic 5 and 6 nano plugs. This, again, is a demonstrable further proof point of extending go-to-market and consumption models for our technology.

我們也持續看到超大規模業者對我們 400G 與 800G 可插拔模組的強勁需求，並仍按計畫在 2025 年的基礎上，將可插拔產品營收提升至兩倍以上。此外，我們也取得另一項首度勝出：一家主要交換器 OEM 將採用我們市場領先的 WaveLogic 5 與 6 nano plugs。這再次明確證明，我們正在擴展技術的市場進入策略（go-to-market）與使用／採購模式。

We will continue expanding our interconnect portfolio with strong momentum behind our Nubis assets across both scale-up and scale-out use cases. First, Nitro, our linear redriver. We received the final chip back, and it is performing extremely well. And therefore, we are on track for general availability this summer.

我們將持續擴大我們的互連產品組合，並在我們的 Nubis 資產於 scale-up 與 scale-out 兩種使用情境中皆具備強勁動能的帶動下向前推進。首先是 Nitro，我們的線性重定時驅動器（linear redriver）。我們已收到最終晶片回片，且其表現極為出色。因此，我們正按計畫於今年夏季達到全面供貨（general availability）。

Turning to Vesta 200 6.4T, the optical engine for CPO use cases. Over the past 90 days, we've seen increased industry momentum and demand for open ecosystems, reinforcing our hypothesis and the strategic value of the Nubis acquisition.

接著談 Vesta 200 6.4T，這是用於 CPO 使用情境的光學引擎。在過去 90 天，我們看到產業動能提升，且對開放式生態系的需求增加，進一步強化了我們的假設以及收購 Nubis 的策略價值。

Given the breadth and depth of our portfolio, Ciena is uniquely positioned as the only focused supplier of high-speed connectivity solutions, enabling our customers to deploy across multiple use cases with best-in-class technology, software and services, from complete systems to modules, to components.

鑑於我們產品組合的廣度與深度，Ciena 具備獨特定位，成為唯一專注於高速連線解決方案的供應商，使我們的客戶能以同級最佳的技術、軟體與服務，跨多種使用情境進行部署，涵蓋從完整系統到模組，再到元件。

Before I close, I want to touch briefly on customer co-creation, which we've talked about in the last few quarters and referenced several times today. It is a meaningful differentiator for Ciena, exemplifying the trust that customers place in both our innovation leadership and our ability to execute complex programs across multiple technology generations.

在我結束之前，我想簡要談談客戶共同創造（co-creation）。我們在過去幾季已討論過，今天也多次提及。這是 Ciena 一項重要的差異化優勢，展現客戶對我們在創新領導力以及跨多個技術世代執行複雜專案能力的信任。

Customers bring us in early on new requirements and architectures, and they trust us for engineering systems insights and to innovate new approaches that help evolve their networks. The resulting solutions are fit for purpose and deployable both at scale and upon pace on launch.

客戶會在新需求與架構的早期就邀請我們參與，並信任我們能提供系統工程洞見，並創新出有助於推動其網路演進的新方法。最終形成的解決方案能切合需求，並可在上市時以規模化且按既定節奏部署。

For Ciena, it sharpens our road map decisions, increases win rates, gives us visibility into demand and build highly differentiated expertise, people, processes and capabilities, and that's reflected in our growing market momentum. The bottom line is our deep customer relationships, and our sustainable technology leadership support our confidence in continued share gains, durable growth and increasing profitability over the next several years.

對 Ciena 而言，這能讓我們的產品路線圖決策更精準、提高得標率、提升對需求的能見度，並建立高度差異化的專業能力、人才、流程與能力，而這也反映在我們持續增長的市場動能上。歸根結底，我們深厚的客戶關係與可持續的技術領導地位，支撐我們對未來數年持續提升市占、穩健成長與獲利能力提升的信心。

With that, I'll turn it over to Marc to walk through the quarter's financial results and our outlook. Marc?

接下來，我把時間交給 Marc，請他說明本季的財務結果與我們的展望。Marc？

Thank you, Gary, and good morning, everybody. Thanks for joining us this morning. As Gary noted, Q2 was another testament to strong execution meeting robust demand. Consistent with industry views that demand will remain strong for at least the next few years, we are focusing our resources to secure supply and manufacturing capacity to deliver for both our customers and our owners.

謝謝你，Gary，各位早安。感謝大家今天早上加入我們。如 Gary 所提到的，第二季再次證明我們以強勁執行力滿足了旺盛需求。與產業觀點一致——需求至少在未來幾年仍將維持強勁——我們正聚焦資源以確保供應與製造產能，為客戶與股東交付成果。

Our Q2 results demonstrate the progress made against our financial priorities, while simultaneously growing the business. First, to gross margin. We achieved an adjusted gross margin of 44.9% in Q2 due to focused efforts on engineering cost reductions, mix and price optimizations.

我們第二季的結果顯示，在同步推動業務成長的同時，我們在財務優先事項上取得進展。首先是毛利率。我們在第二季達成 44.9% 的調整後毛利率，主要來自於聚焦工程成本降低、產品組合（mix）與價格最佳化。

We continue to see a path towards margin expansion based in part on our technology leadership in hyper-rail and DCOM, the ramp of our interconnects and components business and value exchange opportunities. Our discipline in managing working capital has also borne fruit. Most notably, our cash conversion cycle has improved by 20 days since Q1 on faster inventory turns and better payables execution.

我們持續看到毛利率擴張的路徑，部分基於我們在 hyper-rail 與 DCOM 的技術領導地位、互連與元件業務的放量（ramp），以及價值交換（value exchange）機會。我們在營運資金管理上的紀律也已見成效。最顯著的是，受益於更快的庫存周轉與更佳的應付帳款執行，我們的現金轉換週期自第一季以來改善了 20 天。

This helped contribute to free cash flow of $219 million or 13.9% of revenue and a cash balance of $1.4 billion. Finally, we are deliberately and responsibly allocating our owners' capital. We continue to invest in the business organically to capture new opportunities, such as developing RLS hyper-rail. We're also extending our product line to different customer use cases, such as data center out-of-band management with our PON technology.

這也有助於帶動自由現金流達 2.19 億美元（占營收 13.9%），以及 14 億美元的現金餘額。最後，我們正審慎且負責任地配置股東資本。我們持續以內生成長方式投資業務以掌握新機會，例如開發 RLS hyper-rail。我們也將產品線延伸至不同客戶使用情境，例如以我們的 PON 技術提供資料中心帶外（out-of-band）管理。

Lastly, we are making key investments, both with capital and operating expenses, to secure supply for the future demand. We remain on track to spend $250 million to $275 million of CapEx. All this while we continue to return capital to our shareholders through our stock buyback, returning $83 million in Q2 at an average price of $371 per share.

此外，我們也透過資本支出與營運費用進行關鍵投資，以確保未來需求所需的供應。我們仍按計畫投入 2.5 億至 2.75 億美元的資本支出（CapEx）。同時，我們也持續透過庫藏股回購向股東返還資本，第二季以每股平均 371 美元回購並返還 8,300 萬美元。

Going into more details on our Q2 results. As Gary noted at the top of the call, revenue reached $1.57 billion, up 40% year-on-year and $71 million over our guidance, setting another quarterly record. Our optical networking business grew 42% over Q2 '25, driven by strong demand for our RLS and Waveserver product lines, both up over 55% year-on-year.

進一步說明第二季結果。如 Gary 在電話會議一開始所提到，營收達 15.7 億美元，年增 40%，並較我們的指引高出 7,100 萬美元，再創單季新高。我們的光網路業務較 2025 年第二季成長 42%，主要受 RLS 與 Waveserver 產品線強勁需求帶動，兩者年增皆超過 55%。

Our routing and switching business grew 88%, primarily due to the ramp of DCOM, as Gary mentioned earlier, and deployment continues at pace. And our direct cloud customer revenue grew 70% over the year ago period, with service providers growing 28%. Of particular note, our India service provider revenue more than doubled year-on-year, reflecting strong demand for MOFN deployments.

我們的路由與交換業務成長 88%，主要來自 DCOM 的放量，如 Gary 先前所述，且部署仍以既定速度推進。我們的直連雲端客戶營收較去年同期成長 70%，服務供應商則成長 28%。特別值得注意的是，我們在印度的服務供應商營收年增超過一倍，反映 MOFN 部署的強勁需求。

We had two customers, both cloud providers, contribute more than 10% of our revenue. As I noted earlier, Q2 adjusted gross margin was 44.9%, exceeding our guidance by 90 basis points, and up 4 full percentage points from a year ago period. Q2 adjusted operating expense was $398 million, driving an adjusted operating margin of 19.5%, exceeding the midpoint of our guide by over 100 basis points.

我們有兩位客戶（皆為雲端供應商）各自貢獻超過 10% 的營收。如我先前提到，第二季調整後毛利率為 44.9%，較指引高出 90 個基點，並較去年同期提升 4 個百分點。第二季調整後營運費用為 3.98 億美元，帶動調整後營業利益率達 19.5%，較指引中點高出逾 100 個基點。

OpEx was elevated in Q2 on higher variable compensation due to strong year-to-date performance on revenues and orders. Otherwise, OpEx is meeting our expectations. Adjusted EPS was $1.64, nearly 4x the year ago figure, demonstrating the strong profit generating capability of our business model.

第二季營運費用偏高，主要因年初至今在營收與訂單表現強勁，導致變動薪酬增加。除此之外，營運費用符合我們的預期。調整後每股盈餘（EPS）為 1.64 美元，接近去年同期的 4 倍，展現我們商業模式強勁的獲利創造能力。

Before I provide our updated full year and Q3 2026 guidance, I'd like to take a moment to comment on the demand and supply environment. In Q2, our backlog increased more than $600 million sequentially to $7.7 billion, reflecting strong demand for our products and our leadership in the market, and we expect to exit the year with even higher backlog.

在我提供更新後的全年與 2026 年第三季指引之前，我想先就需求與供應環境做一些說明。第二季，我們的積壓訂單（backlog）較前一季增加超過 6 億美元至 77 億美元，反映市場對我們產品的強勁需求以及我們的市場領導地位；我們預期年底的積壓訂單將更高。

The combination of customer collaboration, a growing services business, robust order flows and high-quality backlog provides us with excellent visibility into 2027. Against this demand backdrop, which has been noted across the industry, we continue to see an imbalance of supply not keeping pace with demand.

客戶協作、持續成長的服務業務、強勁的訂單流量與高品質的積壓訂單相結合，使我們對 2027 年具備極佳的能見度。在此需求背景下（產業普遍亦有同樣觀察），我們仍看到供給無法跟上需求的失衡狀況。

We are navigating these challenges as well as evidenced by our strong performance and ability to increase our outlook over the past couple of quarters. We are working with both our supply partners and customers to ensure we can serve our large and growing backlog. Specifically, we are driving to achieve a greater balance as we make the investments with our suppliers needed to ensure supply security, while focusing on economic optimization opportunities with our customers.

我們也正在因應這些挑戰，這從我們強勁的表現以及過去幾季能上調展望的能力可見一斑。我們正與供應夥伴與客戶合作，確保能服務我們龐大且持續成長的積壓訂單。具體而言，我們一方面推動與供應商進行必要投資以確保供應安全，另一方面也與客戶聚焦於經濟性最佳化（economic optimization）機會，以達成更佳平衡。

Now on to guidance. In Q3 2026, we expect to deliver revenue of approximately $1.625 billion, plus or minus $50 million, and an adjusted gross margin of 45%, plus or minus 50 basis points, and adjusted operating expenses of approximately $410 million, plus or minus $10 million, resulting in an operating margin of 19% to 20%.

接著是指引。2026 年第三季，我們預期營收約為 16.25 億美元，上下浮動 5,000 萬美元；調整後毛利率為 45%，上下浮動 50 個基點；調整後營運費用約為 4.10 億美元，上下浮動 1,000 萬美元，對應的營業利益率為 19% 至 20%。

Based on our first half performance and continued ability to manage through a supply-constrained environment, we are once again in a position to raise our guidance for fiscal '26. We now expect to deliver revenue for the fiscal year of $6.3 billion, plus or minus $100 million, raising our midpoint growth to 32% year-on-year. We expect our fiscal 2026 gross margin to be between 44.5% and 45%.

基於上半年表現，以及我們在供應受限環境下持續管理的能力，我們再次具備上調 2026 財年的指引條件。我們目前預期 2026 財年營收為 63 億美元，上下浮動 1 億美元，將中點年增率提高至 32%。我們預期 2026 財年毛利率介於 44.5% 至 45%。

And we expect fiscal 2026 operating expenses of approximately $1.61 billion, plus or minus $20 million, due to higher variable compensation and additional investments in supply security. And we now expect '26 operating margin of 19%, plus or minus 50 basis points. In conclusion, we had another record quarter as market dynamics continue in Ciena's favor.

我們也預期 2026 財年營運費用約為 16.1 億美元，上下浮動 2,000 萬美元，主要因變動薪酬提高以及在供應安全上的額外投資。我們目前預期 2026 年營業利益率為 19%，上下浮動 50 個基點。總結而言，隨著市場動態持續朝有利於 Ciena 的方向發展，我們再度創下單季新高。

Visibility remains strong, well beyond our historical norms, supported by significant backlog, multiphase customer programs and our co-creation activities, and we are confident that strength will continue into 2027. We see durable and robust demand underscored by the network's critical role in enabling AI and supported by the doubling of our TAM by 2029.

能見度依然強勁，遠高於我們過往的歷史常態，並由可觀的積壓訂單、多階段客戶專案以及我們的共同創造活動所支撐；我們有信心這股強勢將延續至 2027 年。我們看到持久且強勁的需求，網路在支援 AI 上扮演關鍵角色，且在 2029 年前我們的 TAM（總可服務市場）將倍增，進一步凸顯此趨勢。

We have proven success, translating increased demand into higher earnings per share on the back of a strong business model and operational execution. We are confident in our ability to bring value to our customers and drive EPS growth for our owners over the next several quarters.

我們已證明成功，憑藉強健的商業模式與營運執行，將需求提升轉化為更高的每股盈餘。我們有信心在未來幾季持續為客戶創造價值，並為股東推動 EPS 成長。

And before I turn it over to questions, I'd like to take a moment to recognize a meaningful milestone. This call marks Gary's 100th earnings call and 25th year as CEO. With passion, a relentless customer focus and a deep belief in Ciena's team members, he's guided Ciena through significant industry transformations.

在我把時間交給提問之前，我想花一點時間表彰一個重要的里程碑。本次電話會議是 Gary 的第 100 次財報電話會議，也是他擔任執行長的第 25 年。憑藉熱忱、對客戶不懈的專注，以及對 Ciena 團隊成員的深厚信念，他帶領 Ciena 度過了產業的重大轉型。

As a result, today, we find ourselves in the enviable position of leading the industry in high-speed connectivity at exactly the moment the world needs it most. On behalf of Ciena's employees around the globe, congratulations, Gary, and thank you for your continued leadership.

因此，今天我們正處於一個令人稱羨的位置：在世界最需要之際，引領高速連線產業。謹代表全球 Ciena 員工，恭喜你，Gary，並感謝你持續的領導。

With that, we'll take questions from our sell-side analysts.

接下來，我們將接受賣方分析師的提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Samik Chatterjee, JP Morgan.

Samik Chatterjee，摩根大通。

Congrats on 25 years. Maybe just for the first one, can you talk about the multi-rail win that you are announcing with the first hyperscaler customer? What are you seeing in terms of deal size or deployment intent from them? Is that tracking relative to your -- how is that tracking relative to your expectations?

恭喜 25 週年。先問第一個問題：你們宣布與第一家超大規模雲端客戶（hyperscaler）取得 multi-rail 的勝利案，能否談談？就交易規模或其部署意圖而言，你們看到什麼？這與你們的——這與你們的預期相比，進展如何？

And are the other discussions or engagements you have of a similar nature related to the first hyperscaler?Maybe anything you can share in terms of when -- how should we think about maturity of revenue in the near term as well on that front? And I have a follow-up.

另外，你們與其他客戶的討論或合作，是否也與第一家 hyperscaler 類似？在這方面，關於何時——以及我們應如何看待短期內營收成熟度（revenue maturity），你們是否能分享一些看法？我還有一個追問。

Thank you, Samik. I appreciate that. Let me take the first part of that. I think getting an early win on this, which with the co-collaboration that we had with these hyperscalers, it's a strategic decision for them given the nature of the deployment.

謝謝你，Samik。我很感謝這個問題。我先回答第一部分。我認為我們能在這方面取得早期勝利，且在與這些 hyperscaler 的共同協作下，鑑於其部署的性質，這對他們而言是一項策略性決策。

It really enables specifically, very high-intensity training across much greater distances with greater amplification and density. So therefore, it is a very strategic decision on their part to standardize on hyper-rail. And that will begin to be rolled out as we go through '27. And obviously, in terms of sizing, they vary.

這確實能夠支援特別是高強度的訓練，在更遠距離下以更高的放大能力與更高密度來進行。因此，對他們而言，將 hyper-rail 作為標準是一項非常策略性的決策。這將在我們進入 2027 年的過程中開始逐步推出。當然，就規模而言，各家會有所不同。

But given the nature of them, they are all hundreds of millions over multiple years. And we are engaged with most of the major players in hyperscalers on discussions for this, progressing extremely well, and we're a little ahead of where we thought we'd be from an adoption point of view.

但考量到他們的特性，這些案子在多年期間的規模都是數億美元。我們也正與多數主要 hyperscaler 業者就此進行討論，進展非常順利；從採用（adoption）的角度來看，我們的進度也略微超前原先預期。

Got it. Got it. And a quick one for Marc. Marc, maybe from an OpEx perspective, operating expense perspective, you did start the year thinking it's more flat with some of the actions that you have taken last year. This increase in the operating expense outlook for the year, which is going hand-in-hand with the increase with your revenue outlook as well, can you just parse through that?

了解。了解。再快速問 Marc 一題。Marc，從 OpEx（營業費用）的角度來看，你們在年初的想法是，基於去年採取的一些行動，費用會比較持平。今年營業費用展望上調，且與營收展望上調同步，你能否拆解說明一下？

How much of that is variable compensation versus maybe investments of some sort? And how does that change? How you're thinking about a long-term OpEx trajectory for the company as well?

其中有多少是變動薪酬（variable compensation），又有多少可能是某種投資？這又會如何改變你們對公司長期 OpEx 走勢的看法？

Yes. Thanks, Samik. Yes, I would say 90% of that increase is really driven by the higher performance than we were expecting at the beginning of the year of both orders and revenue. So as that scales, and I would expect variable compensation to scale as well.

好的。謝謝你，Samik。是的，我會說其中 90% 的增加，主要是因為訂單與營收表現都高於我們年初的預期。隨著規模擴大，我也預期變動薪酬會相應增加。

All that said, the strength of our model continues to deliver that operating leverage. So if you kind of compare where we were at the beginning of the year to where we are now, we're increasing that operating leverage even with the increase in variable comp.

即便如此，我們的商業模式強項仍持續帶來營運槓桿（operating leverage）。所以如果你比較年初與現在的位置，即使變動薪酬增加，我們仍在提升營運槓桿。

The rest of that delta is really around making sure that we're increasing the supply security for the demand that we're seeing. It's -- I would say that's 10-ish percent of that spend. Moving forward, I would expect us to continue to generate operating leverage and grow revenue significantly faster than OpEx, and you'll see that in further strengthening of EPS over time.

其餘的差額主要是為了確保我們能提升供應安全性，以支撐我們看到的需求。我會說那大約占這筆支出的 10% 左右。往後看，我預期我們會持續產生營運槓桿，並讓營收成長顯著快於 OpEx；你也會在每股盈餘（EPS）隨時間進一步走強中看到這一點。

Simon Leopold, Raymond James.

Simon Leopold，Raymond James。

So I mean maybe I'm mute? Can you hear me?

所以——我是不是被靜音了？你們聽得到我嗎？

Okay. Sorry, I wasn't on mute. I swear. Just a quick one. If you could just give us the double click on the 10% customers. And the question I wanted to ask is a little bit of elaboration on your pricing strategy in that you've got substantial backlog. I'm wondering, one, are you able to raise price in the backlog?

好。抱歉，我沒有靜音。我發誓。先快速問一題：你們能否再深入說明一下 10% 客戶？我想問的是，關於你們的定價策略能否多談一些：你們有相當可觀的積壓訂單（backlog）。我想知道，第一，你們是否能在 backlog 上調價？

And how are you juggling your rising input costs versus your ability to raise product price? And how does your price hikes factor into your growth? Anything -- any insight we could get there in this kind of inflationary environment, I'd appreciate that.

第二，你們如何在投入成本上升與提高產品售價的能力之間取得平衡？你們的漲價如何反映在成長之中？在這種通膨環境下，若能提供任何洞見，我會很感激。

Yeah. No, I appreciate it, Simon. So first, in your question around the 2% or the 2 10% customers. As I said in the remarks, both cloud providers. Together, they are about one third of the revenue for Q2. So we can't get into the names, but I'll leave you guys to hypothesize on who those are. On the gross margin and the pricing piece, we purposely are using this term value exchange because as we think through the supply-demand dynamics, we're trying to balance a couple of things.

好的。謝謝你，Simon。我很感謝。先回到你關於 2% 或兩個 10% 客戶的問題。如我在談話中提到的，兩者都是雲端服務供應商（cloud providers）。合計約占第二季營收的三分之一。我們無法透露名稱，但就留給各位去推測是哪些。至於毛利率與定價的部分，我們刻意使用「價值交換」（value exchange）這個詞，因為在思考供需動態時，我們試圖平衡幾件事。

One is, obviously, how do we continue to expand our margin, how we make sure we're driving the right investment into securing that supply. But I also want to make sure that the other working capital activities are being taken care of, and you saw the improvement in cash conversion.

其中之一當然是：我們如何持續擴大毛利率，以及如何確保我們投入適當的投資以確保供應。同時我也希望確保其他營運資金（working capital）相關活動能被妥善處理，而你也看到現金轉換（cash conversion）的改善。

So as we think about that, nothing is off the table. So we are having conversations with all of our customers around how do we balance the supply chain risk because we are making additional commitments with our suppliers to ensure that's secure supply. We're working with them to optimize which products they take out of our portfolio and making sure we've got good fill rates and we're driving what they require.

因此在這樣的思考下，沒有任何選項被排除。我們正與所有客戶對話，討論如何平衡供應鏈風險，因為我們正對供應商做出額外承諾，以確保供應安全。我們也與客戶合作，優化他們從我們產品組合中採用哪些產品，確保良好的供貨達成率（fill rates），並推動他們所需要的產品。

And yes, we're looking at pricing opportunities across all of our products. I think the team has done a phenomenal job of taking what we see as some inflationary inputs and being able to, through really good engineering work, cost to reduce those to kind of mitigate the impacts. And you're seeing that.

是的，我們也在所有產品上尋找定價機會。我認為團隊做得非常出色：針對我們看到的一些通膨性投入成本，透過非常扎實的工程工作與降本（cost reduction）來降低成本，以緩解影響。你們也正在看到這些成果。

And I think this is our third guide for the year. We've raised gross margin each of the three quarters. And so I think you're seeing the fruits of that. I expect, as we continue to go through time, we have increasing confidence in being able to expand our margin, both at the gross level and at the operating level, for the reasons I talked about in the script.

而且我想這是我們今年第三次給出指引。我們在三個季度中每一季都上調了毛利率。因此我認為你們正在看到成果。我預期，隨著時間推進，我們對於擴大毛利率（gross level）與營業利益率（operating level）的能力會更有信心，原因我在講稿中已經談過。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Amit Daryanani, Evercore ISI.

Amit Daryanani，Evercore ISI。

Perfect. Thanks for taking my question. I have two as well. I guess, first one, Gary, I think you spoke about in your opening comments about how the TAM could double essentially by fiscal '29 or get to at least $50 billion, I think. I think that would imply a 25%, 26% CAGR from where we are right now roughly.

很好。謝謝讓我提問。我也有兩個問題。第一個，Gary，我想你在開場談到，到 2029 財年 TAM 可能基本上會翻倍，或至少達到 500 億美元。我想這大概意味著從目前水準起算約 25% 到 26% 的年複合成長率（CAGR）。

Could you just maybe break out and talk about how much of that TAM expansion is in and around the data center versus traditional van? And then how do we think about Ciena's ability to pick up share in that scenario?

你能否拆解一下，這個 TAM 擴張有多少來自資料中心周邊（data center），相對於傳統 WAN？另外，在那樣的情境下，我們應如何看待 Ciena 取得市占的能力？

Yes. Thank you, Amit. Yes, if you look at the sort of doubling of it, you're right about the overall growth rate, and you think about that as being -- scale across is driving a lot of that. And probably by the time we get to '29, we expect that to be about an $8 billion to $10 billion market, and that would be part of an overall long-haul metro optical transport WAN-type market of probably in excess of about $20 billion. So you can see that is a large part of it.

是的。謝謝你，Amit。是的，如果你看這個大約翻倍的情境，你對整體成長率的判斷是對的；你可以把它想成——橫向擴展（scale across）正在推動其中很大一部分。大概到 2029 年時，我們預期那會是一個約 80 億到 100 億美元的市場，而它會是整體長途與都會光傳輸、WAN 類型市場的一部分；該整體市場規模可能超過約 200 億美元。所以你可以看到這是其中很大的一塊。

And then you've got things like the interconnect market, which obviously is opening up in our various offerings into there. So it's obviously a confluence of those. And again, I would stress that TAM, and that's evolving very quickly as we're all seeing.

接著還有像互連（interconnect）市場這類領域，顯然我們的各項產品也正在切入。因此這顯然是多股力量的匯聚。同時我也要強調，TAM 正在快速演變，我們都看得到。

We obviously think in our areas, particularly like across, we can continue to take share with things like hyper-rail and the technologies we have from a modem point of view and then deploying them inside and around the data center. Obviously, as we go into the -- inside the data center, you've got some large markets there where we are the new entrants, but we believe that we can take share with our technology, and we're seeing evidence of that.

我們當然認為在我們的領域，特別是像 across 這一塊，我們可以透過像 hyper-rail 以及我們在數據機（modem）方面的技術持續取得市占，並將其部署在資料中心內部及其周邊。顯然，當我們進入——資料中心內部時，那裡有一些龐大的市場，而我們是新進者；但我們相信可以憑藉技術取得市占，而且我們也看到相關證據。

Got it. Perfect. And then maybe just a follow-up on the DCOM side. I mean if I think about this 88% growth you folks had in routing and switching, is that really all DCOM driven? Or maybe there's a way to think about DCOM versus what the baseline routing and switching business did?

了解。很好。接著可能再追問一下 DCOM 這邊。我的意思是，如果我看你們在路由與交換（routing and switching）有 88% 的成長，這真的全部都是 DCOM 帶動的嗎？還是說，有沒有一種方式可以把 DCOM 與路由與交換本業的基礎表現做個區分來看？

And then really when you think of the DCOM opportunity, do you think it's a durable multiyear attached business? Or is it more of a onetime out-of-band refers that you're benefiting from? Just kind of maybe frame of how big it is and how durable this could be.

另外，當你們談到 DCOM 的機會時，你們認為它會是一個可持續、跨多年的附加型（attached）業務嗎？還是比較像一次性的、非例行（out-of-band）的需求，你們剛好受惠？想請你們大概框架一下它的規模，以及它可能有多耐久。

I would say that DCOM is a large part of the growth in routing and switching. But even if you took that out, routing and switching had pretty good growth as well outside of the DCOM piece. We think that DCOM is a multiyear, multifaceted application within the hyperscalers and potentially, outside of the hyperscalers as well.

我會說，DCOM 確實是路由與交換成長的一大部分。但即便把那部分拿掉，路由與交換在 DCOM 之外也有相當不錯的成長。我們認為 DCOM 在超大規模業者（hyperscalers）內部是一個跨多年、具多面向的應用，而且也可能延伸到超大規模業者之外。

We're obviously seeing that with our anchor customer in Meta. It's proving to be much larger and much wider, broader expansion than we'd anticipated. We're actually engaged with a couple of other hyperscalers. We got orders from another hyperscaler.

我們很明顯在 Meta 這個錨定客戶（anchor customer）身上看到這點。它證明了規模比我們原先預期更大、擴展也更廣、更全面。我們也正在與另外幾家超大規模業者合作洽談。我們也拿到另一家超大規模業者的訂單。

And they all have slightly different applications for it, but it's certainly not one and done. It's going to be an evolving application that we see growing and we think -- again, it's very early days, but maybe $1 billion to $2 billion to $3 billion by the time we get to '29 is the total TAM. So this is a very important part of the inside the data center strategy for Ciena.

而且他們各自的應用情境略有不同，但這絕對不是一次性、做完就結束。這會是一個持續演進的應用，我們看到它在成長；我們認為——再次強調，現在還很早期——到 2029 年時，整體 TAM 可能是 10 億到 20 億到 30 億美元。所以這是 Ciena「資料中心內部」策略中非常重要的一環。

Perfect. Thank you and congrats on nice numbers here.

很好。謝謝，也恭喜這次數字表現不錯。

Thank you, Matt.

謝謝你，Matt。

Sean O'Laughlin, TD Cowen.

TD Cowen 的 Sean O'Laughlin。

Hey, guys. First time, long time. I wanted to ask one1 on the competitive environment for both scale across and maybe the more traditional land. I think your share position is well established, but do you see any of these tech transitions coming up, whether it's the more true GPU to GPU connections on the scale across or whether it's hyper-rail?

嗨，各位。我是第一次提問、但長期關注。我想問一下 scale-across 以及可能更傳統領域（traditional land）兩邊的競爭環境。我認為你們的市占地位很穩固，但你們是否看到任何即將到來的技術轉換會帶來影響？例如在 scale-across 上更真正的 GPU 對 GPU 連接，或是 hyper-rail？

Does any of that change the competitive landscape with either the traditional competitors in that market or from the sort of bottoms up side where component vendors are potentially moving up in the systems?

這些會不會改變競爭版圖——不管是該市場的傳統競爭對手，或是從「由下而上」的角度，元件供應商可能往上游進入系統層？

Yeah. First of all, Sean, welcome to the party. Nice to hear your voice. Scott here. In the short term, looking back in the rearview mirror, we've certainly seen consolidation on the system -- system competitor landscape, and that's been successfully happening at a pace slower than we would have liked, but it certainly has been happening consistently over the last decade, and it's really gotten down to a few folks that have the capability and scale to address the needs of these large customers.

是的。首先，Sean，歡迎加入。很高興聽到你的聲音。我是 Scott。短期來看、回頭看，我們確實看到系統——系統競爭者版圖出現整併；這件事一直在發生，雖然速度比我們希望的慢，但過去十年確實持續在進行，而且現在基本上收斂到少數幾家有能力與規模去滿足這些大型客戶需求的廠商。

In terms of the other side of the coin, which is sort of folks coming into -- or trying to come into the systems space from the component vendor, there are certain folks that have done that and tried to do that in the past. It's a very difficult journey, in our opinion. I mean, the moat that's there from a system vendor perspective, people think of technology components, but it's a lot deeper than that.

至於另一面，也就是一些廠商從元件供應商端切入——或嘗試切入——系統領域，過去確實有人做過、也嘗試過。在我們看來，那是一段非常艱難的旅程。我的意思是，從系統供應商角度來看，大家想到的護城河是技術元件，但其實遠不只如此。

It's how do you put those individual components together into an end-to-end system that spans thousands of kilometers and make it sing in an economic way for our customers. It's the software that goes around the control of that. It's the integration of the back-office systems. It's the services to be able to service these networks 24/7, 365 days a year around the world. It's a big step function. And we've been doing that for decades, and it's -- we think it's a significant competitive advantage against that segment.

關鍵在於你如何把那些單一元件整合成一個端到端系統，能跨越數千公里，並以對客戶具經濟效益的方式讓它運作得很出色。還有圍繞其控制的軟體；後台系統的整合；以及能在全球 24/7、全年 365 天維運這些網路的服務能力。這是一個很大的門檻。我們已經做了幾十年，我們認為這對那一類競爭者而言是我們顯著的競爭優勢。

Great. And then just a quick follow-up on the gross margin side. The full year guide, 44.5% to 45%, to get to that in my model, at least, I have to downtick a little bit in the fourth quarter. Is there a message there? Or is that -- am I reading the tea leaves too closely there?

很好。再快速追問一下毛利率。全年指引是 44.5% 到 45%。至少在我的模型裡，要達到這個數字，我必須在第四季稍微下修一點。這裡有什麼訊息嗎？還是——我是不是解讀得太細了？

Yes. Sean, it's Marc. Yes, I think you might be reading a little too much into that. As we think through Q4, there's still 90 days to go before we get there, and we're really paying attention to a couple of things in the supply chain, right? Obviously, one is mix.

是的。Sean，我是 Marc。是的，我想你可能有點過度解讀了。我們在思考 Q4 時，距離現在還有 90 天才會到，我們確實在供應鏈上特別關注幾件事，對吧？很明顯其中之一是產品組合（mix）。

The other is, as the industry continues to be constrained, we're trying to be prudent about some inflationary pressures. I wouldn't read too much into the implied Q4 yet. Let's get through Q3 and then we can talk more specifically about that here in 90 days.

另一個是，隨著產業持續受限，我們也試著對一些通膨壓力保持審慎。我不會對目前隱含的 Q4 解讀太多。先把 Q3 走完，90 天後我們再更具體地談。

Yes. Loud and clear. And congrats, Gary.

是的，完全明白。也恭喜你，Gary。

George Notter, Wolfe Research.

Wolfe Research 的 George Notter。

Hey, guys. It's Taran Katta on for George. I was just curious about any traction you're seeing on the coherent light side? Maybe any incremental use cases? I would love to hear anything there.

嗨，各位。我是代 George 的 Taran Katta。我想了解一下你們在相干光（coherent light）這一塊看到的進展？也許有任何新增的使用案例？很想聽聽你們的看法。

Yes. So first of all, the coherent light is an opportunity we still see in the future. As the need for high-bandwidth communications increases, the distances of the current technology shrink and shrink and shrink. So coherent is going to find its way closer to the four walls of the data center. And our belief system actually is ultimately inside the data center.

是的。所以首先，相干光仍然是我們認為未來會出現的機會。隨著對高頻寬通訊的需求增加，現有技術可支援的距離會愈來愈短、愈來愈短、愈來愈短。因此，相干技術會逐步更靠近資料中心的「四面牆」之內。而我們的信念其實是，最終會進到資料中心內部。

The vehicle for doing that would be a lighter version of coherent with the industry as you said, coherent light. We still see that as an opportunity that's going to intersect the marketplace, we believe, sort of late 2027 into '28 at data rates of 1.6 and 3.2 terabits. And our portfolio road map reflects that as shaped by our conversations with the lead cloud providers, and we can talk more about the technology in the future.

要達成這件事的載體會是相干技術的輕量化版本，也就是你提到的 coherent light。我們仍然認為這是一個會與市場交會的機會；我們相信大概在 2027 年底到 2028 年，資料速率達到 1.6 與 3.2 太比特（terabits）時會出現。我們的產品組合路線圖也反映了這點，並且是依據我們與主要雲端供應商的對話所塑造；未來我們也可以再多談技術細節。

Great. And then what are you seeing on the NEO cloud side in terms of demand? How should we think about size opportunity? It sounds like you guys are starting to see more traction there as well.

很好。那在 NEO cloud 這邊，你們看到的需求狀況如何？我們該怎麼看待機會規模？聽起來你們在那裡也開始看到更多進展。

Yeah. Let me take that. I mean the neoscaler piece covers a very wide range of different kinds of organizations and customers. We are leaning into that. We're seeing great opportunities around them leaning into the network piece.

是的。我來回答。我是說，neoscaler 這一塊涵蓋非常廣泛、各式各樣的組織與客戶。我們正在加大投入。我們看到他們在網路這一塊加碼所帶來的很大機會。

Clearly, the neoscalers are looking to invest in the network piece, and they're doing that through either shared networks, MOFN. Some of them they're driving themselves. We have significant wins in most of the major neoscalers, so we are rolling out networks for them. Difficult to kind of size that right now, but we think that's a particularly good growth for us over the next two to three years, for sure.

很明顯，neoscalers 正在尋求投資網路部分，他們透過共享網路、MOFN 來做；有些則是自己推動。我們在多數主要 neoscalers 都有重要的勝出案，因此我們正在為他們部署網路。現在要精準估算規模有點難，但我們確信這會是我們未來兩到三年特別好的成長動能。

One of the interesting dynamics and the engagements that we've had with them also is that they're trying to go fast, and they're trying to go fast, not necessarily staffed up some of the larger folks that have gone before them. So we're seeing great services opportunities there as well, which is a nice business for us.

另外一個有趣的動態是，我們與他們互動時也看到，他們想要快速推進，而且他們想快，但人力配置未必像先行的大型業者那麼完整。因此我們也看到很好的服務（services）機會，這對我們來說也是一門不錯的業務。

Great. Thank you guys so much.

很好。非常謝謝各位。

Ruben Roy, Stifel.

Stifel 的 Ruben Roy。

Ruben?

Ruben？

Tracy may want to move on and come back to Ruben.

Tracy 可能想先往下進行，之後再回到 Ruben。

I'm sorry. Can you hear me? There we go.

不好意思。聽得到我嗎？好了。

Yes, now we can.

是的，現在聽得到。

Okay. Yeah. Hi, thanks. Gary, I got a bunch of questions on hyper-rail. I wanted to come back to something you said about hundreds of millions of dollars over multiple years. I think you're saying that you're a bit ahead of adoption expectations.

好的。是的，嗨，謝謝。Gary，我有一堆關於 hyper-rail 的問題。我想回到你剛才提到的「跨多年、數億美元」那段。我理解你是在說，你們的採用進度比預期稍微超前。

But can you help us understand the deployment pace, especially sort of how I think about sort of co-development with some of the hyperscalers, et cetera? Is this sort of lumpy project-based type of revenue rec? Or do you think it will be sort of more linear as you think about the next couple of years on multi-rail or hyper-rail, specifically?

但你能不能幫我們理解一下部署節奏，特別是我該如何看待與一些超大規模業者共同開發（co-development）等等？這會是那種比較「不均勻」、以專案為主的收入認列嗎？還是你認為在未來幾年，針對 multi-rail 或特別是 hyper-rail，會更偏線性成長？

On multi-rail, specifically, yes. I mean, we think it starts in '27, and we think it will be linear. And we think by that point, we'll be doing it with multiple hyper-railers and also service providers, too. There's some very large service providers, particularly those that are exposed to the wholesale MOFN-type market, where this kind of technology is absolutely transformative for them.

就 multi-rail 來說，是的。我們認為它會在 2027 年開始，而且我們認為會是線性的。並且我們認為到那個時點，我們會與多個 hyper-railers 以及服務供應商一起推進。也有一些非常大型的服務供應商，特別是那些曝險於批發 MOFN 類型市場的業者，這類技術對他們而言絕對具有顛覆性。

So we think starting in '27, that will provide nice linear growth for us for the next few years, frankly. And given the scale that you're talking about on -- and this is not just training, that is obviously the sort of killer app for this because what it enables is greater density over greater distances and it enables different training models.

所以我們認為從「27 年開始，這將在接下來幾年為我們帶來相當不錯、相對線性的成長。坦白說，考量到你所談的規模——而且這不只是訓練，訓練當然是這方面的「殺手級應用」，因為它能在更長距離上提供更高密度，並且支援不同的訓練模型。

And when you think about the constraint that is on compute right now, generally speaking, the networks have to go to the compute. Therefore, you're seeing -- in addition to the demand that we've seen so far, I think we're beginning to see even an increased demand because the networks got to go to compute. And when you think about that in the training context, the timing of us coming out with this hyper-rail co-created with the hyperscalers, it could not be better.

而當你想到目前算力（compute）的限制時，一般而言，網路必須靠近算力。因此，除了我們迄今看到的需求之外，我認為我們也開始看到更進一步的需求增加，因為網路必須到算力那裡去。再把這點放在訓練情境下來看，我們與超大規模業者（hyperscalers）共同打造這個 hyper-rail 的推出時點，簡直再好不過。

And then in addition to the training, you're just talking about very long distance, high-density, low-latency, super intelligent line systems for cloud, for connecting data centers. And we've obviously talked about the training piece. You're seeing the beginning of all the inference and agentic AI, which will drive essentially cloud growth as well. And that infrastructure right now is based on RLS. That is the industry standard. So we're leveraging our expertise and technology there into hyper-rail.

此外，除了訓練之外，你談的其實是用於雲端、用於連接資料中心的超長距離、高密度、低延遲、超智慧的線路系統（line systems）。我們當然已經談過訓練這一塊。你也開始看到各種推論（inference）與代理式 AI（agentic AI）的起步，這也將實質上推動雲端成長。而目前那套基礎設施是建立在 RLS 之上，那是產業標準。因此我們正把在那方面的專業與技術延伸到 hyper-rail。

Yes. Maybe just to add on, Ruben, this is Marc. Obviously, we're at $0 of revenue for hyper-rail until we introduce that later this year. But you'll see a meaningful uptick in revenue in '27 as a result of hyper-rail.

是的。也許補充一下，Ruben，我是 Marc。很明顯，在我們今年稍晚推出之前，hyper-rail 的營收仍是 0 美元。但你會在「27 年看到因 hyper-rail 帶來的營收顯著上升。

Great. Thanks for all that detail. Maybe as a quick follow-up, Marc, on the commentary on OpEx growth, and you're already at 19.5% adjusted operating margin on the revenue guide. Can you maybe talk about longer-term signposts? Maybe how you're thinking about potential upside from there on operating margins as you continue to see some of this new revenue come into the model starting next year?

很好。謝謝你提供這麼多細節。也許快速追問一下，Marc，關於你對營業費用（OpEx）成長的評論，而且在營收指引下你們已經有 19.5% 的調整後營業利益率。你能否談談更長期的觀察指標？例如，當你們從明年開始把一些新營收納入模型後，你們如何看待營業利益率可能從目前水準再往上的空間？

Yeah. I'm not going to really get into 2027 or maybe at this point, Ruben. But how I dimension this is we've got pretty strong backlog. We're leaving Q2 at [77]. I said we're going to increase that throughout the rest of this year, going into 2027. We've got a pretty good map in terms of how we're going to expand gross margins in front of us.

可以。我不會在這個時間點深入談 2027 年，Ruben。但我衡量的方式是：我們有相當強勁的在手訂單（backlog）。我們在第二季結束時是 [77]。我也說過，我們會在今年剩餘時間持續提高，並延續到 2027 年。我們在如何擴大毛利率方面，前方有一張相當清楚的路線圖。

And I think what you'll see is continued operating leverage as we go into 2027 and beyond. So I think when you put all that together, the power of our business model, you're going to see a pretty meaningful EPS acceleration as we go through the next several years. And as we get closer to the end of the year, we'll give you a little more dimensioning on what we think that OpEx is going to be. But again, I would count on more operating leverage.

而我認為你會看到，當我們進入 2027 年及之後，營運槓桿會持續展現。所以把這些放在一起看，憑藉我們商業模式的威力，你會在未來幾年看到每股盈餘（EPS）相當顯著的加速成長。等到接近年底時，我們會再提供更多關於我們認為 OpEx 會如何走的量化說明。但同樣地，我會預期有更多的營運槓桿。

Got it. Thank you.

了解。謝謝。

Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

Meta Marshall，摩根士丹利。

Congratulations. Just in terms of -- a couple of questions for me. First is just on supply chain. I think in the past, you've had more availability on the pluggable side versus the system side. But if you could just kind of give any update into where you're seeing kind of the greatest tightness?

恭喜。就我這邊有幾個問題。第一個是供應鏈。我想過去你們在可插拔（pluggable）端的供應可得性比系統端更好。但你能否更新一下，目前你們看到最吃緊的地方主要在哪裡？

And then just on the gross margin leverage, you obviously spoke to kind of the steps that are being taken to kind of work around designs. But just in terms of kind of the ramp of the pluggables business, just how much of that is contributing to kind of the gross margin pickup we saw?

另外關於毛利率槓桿，你們顯然談到為了因應設計而採取的一些步驟。但就可插拔業務的爬坡而言，這在多大程度上貢獻了我們看到的毛利率提升？

Yes. Meta, it's Marc. On the supply chain piece, yes, I mean, again, the team is doing a wonderful job, I think, of using our engineering prowess to cost reduce some of that. As we think about those things that are probably most constrained, we do have some constraints on modem, so typically like CDMs, but what's really helping us on the modem side of the business is we're the most vertically integrated supplier in the industry.

是的，Meta，我是 Marc。關於供應鏈部分，是的，我的意思是，團隊再次做得非常出色，運用我們的工程能力來降低其中一些成本。當我們思考哪些項目可能最受限時，我們在數據機（modem）方面確實有一些限制，通常像是 CDM 這類，但在數據機業務上真正幫助我們的是：我們是業界垂直整合程度最高的供應商。

And so we're able to buffer some of those supply chain challenges on the modem side. On the system side, you've heard a lot of people talk about the laser pump or the pump lasers that go into our amplifiers and into the line systems. That's something that we continue to work kind of on a daily basis across our supply chain.

因此我們能在數據機端緩衝部分供應鏈挑戰。在系統端，你也聽到很多人談到雷射幫浦（laser pump）或用在我們放大器與線路系統中的幫浦雷射（pump lasers）。這是我們持續每天都在供應鏈上努力處理的事情。

And those are things, as we make those investments and we put capacity in place and we're thinking about the longer-term discussions we're having with those suppliers, that's a lot of where we're spending our time. And again, I would say the team is doing a wonderful job even on just getting more units into the door so that we can sell them.

而這些事情，當我們進行投資、擴充產能，並思考與這些供應商進行的長期討論時，這就是我們投入大量時間的地方。再說一次，我會說團隊做得非常好，甚至在只是把更多單位的產品送進來，好讓我們能賣出去這件事上也是如此。

As soon as we get them, they're going out the door, which has allowed us to meet and beat the revenue expectations for the year. On the gross margin leverage, I think there's a couple of things that are going on here. One is you've heard me talk a lot about the engineering cost reductions, which I think, again, the team is doing a great job on.

我們一拿到貨就立刻出貨，這也讓我們能達成並超越今年的營收預期。至於毛利率槓桿，我認為這裡有幾件事同時在發生。第一，你們聽我談過很多次工程端的成本降低，我認為團隊在這方面同樣做得很好。

We are having conversations, both with the supply chain on how we optimize those costs as well as with our customers on how we do that value exchange that I talked about earlier. And it's across -- it's beyond just price, although obviously, that's on the table. We're also looking at how do we balance the supply risk with our customers and our suppliers.

我們一方面與供應鏈討論如何最佳化這些成本，另一方面也與客戶討論如何進行我先前提到的價值交換（value exchange）。而且這涵蓋的範圍——不只是價格，雖然很明顯價格也在討論範圍內。我們也在看如何與客戶及供應商一起平衡供應風險。

How do we make sure we get terms so that we can manage our working capital a little more tightly. So I think we're looking across the entire scope of not just price in terms of gross margin, but how do we improve the foundation of the entirety of the business.

我們也要確保取得合適的條款，讓我們能更緊密地管理營運資金（working capital）。所以我認為我們是在整個範疇上檢視：毛利率不只是價格問題，而是如何改善整體業務的基礎。

Got it.

了解。

Oh, sorry, I totally forgot your plug question. Sorry about that. Sorry, I get so excited about gross margin. On the plug piece, as we said, we're driving -- we expect to double our total plug revenue. At this point in time, I don't think we're seeing plugs have either a hugely negative or a hugely positive impact on our gross margin. It's obviously a component as we think about mix, but I'm not too hung up right now on the impacts of our plugs, although I am pretty pleased with the trajectory of the business.

喔，抱歉，我完全忘了你問的可插拔問題。真的抱歉。我對毛利率太興奮了。關於可插拔部分，如我們所說，我們正在推動——我們預期可插拔總營收會翻倍。以目前來看，我不認為可插拔對我們毛利率有非常負面或非常正面的巨大影響。它顯然是我們思考產品組合（mix）時的一個組成，但我現在不會太糾結於可插拔對毛利率的影響，雖然我對這項業務的發展軌跡相當滿意。

Adrienne Colby, Citi.

Adrienne Colby，花旗。

I was hoping you could provide some more color on the service provider side. You're clearly seeing some strength in the MOFN business. I'm interested what you're seeing outside of India? And in the past, you've had a greater than 10% customer that was a service provider. I'm interested if that just dropped off because of the strength in hyperscalers or if there's some other dynamics you'd call out with service provider?

我希望你能在服務供應商（service provider）端提供更多說明。你們顯然在 MOFN 業務上看到一些強勁動能。我想了解在印度以外你們看到了什麼？另外，過去你們曾有一個占比超過 10% 的客戶是服務供應商。我想知道那是否只是因為超大規模業者（hyperscalers）成長強勁而被稀釋，或是服務供應商端還有其他你會點出的動態？

Yes. Thank you, Adrienne. Yes, as we talked about, service providers overall were about 28% up year-on-year. I think what you're seeing there is two dynamics. One is they basically have underinvested in their optical infrastructure for the last -- frankly, the last five years.

是的。謝謝你，Adrienne。是的，如我們所談，服務供應商整體年增約 28%。我認為你看到的是兩個動態。第一，他們在過去——坦白說過去五年——對其光學基礎設施投資不足。

They've been very preoccupied with 5G investments. That's obviously now tailing off. And they are looking at putting their optical infrastructure up to date, and that's a development that we're seeing across the service provider landscape across the globe.

他們一直非常專注於 5G 投資。這顯然現在正在趨緩。他們正著手讓其光學基礎設施跟上最新需求，而這個趨勢我們在全球各地的服務供應商版圖中都看得到。

The second dynamic we're seeing is really the sort of MOFN piece, which is managed optical fiber networks built explicitly for hyperscalers and for cloud players in various countries. So we're seeing both of those dynamics come into play.

我們看到的第二個動態，主要是 MOFN 這一塊，也就是受管式光纖網路（managed optical fiber networks），在各國專門為超大規模業者與雲端業者所建置。因此我們看到這兩個動態同時發酵。

We think it's multiyear and very durable because as omnipotent as some of the hyperscalers are, it's tough for them to be everywhere across the globe and also the last mile in various countries, and there's regulatory issues around that as well. So that ecosystem of partnership and opportunity for service providers, I think they are leaning into when we are the beneficiary of that.

我們認為這是多年期且非常具持續性的，因為即便某些超大規模業者再怎麼強大，他們也很難在全球各地無所不在，並且在各國做到最後一哩路（last mile）；此外也有相關的監管議題。因此我認為服務供應商正在更積極投入這個合作生態系與機會，而我們正是其中的受益者。

I mean when you step back from all of this, it's really about the network. And generally speaking, in the context of AI and what needs to happen, it's actually under invested in for the last few years. And so across the service provider landscape, you're seeing that cascade through as well.

我的意思是，當你從整體退一步看，這一切其實都關乎網路。而一般而言，在 AI 的脈絡下以及所需發生的事情上，過去幾年其實對網路的投資是不足的。因此在服務供應商的整體版圖中，你也會看到這個效應逐步傳導出來。

Yes. Maybe just to add on to that, Adrienne. You mentioned the MOFN piece. I would say across all of our service providers at 28% growth is a pretty fair representation on average of what that group is doing, both the wholesale guys who are very exposed to MOFN and those that aren't necessarily exposed to MOFN.

是的。也許只是補充一下，Adrienne。你提到 MOFN 的部分。我會說，在我們所有服務供應商中，28% 的成長在平均而言相當能代表該族群的表現，包含那些對 MOFN 曝險很高的批發業者，以及那些不一定曝險於 MOFN 的業者。

And then on your question about the 10% customer, it's just math, right? Those hyperscalers are just growing at such a huge rate that they kind of cross out the others that aren't growing at that pace.

然後關於你問的那個 10% 客戶，這就是數學問題，對吧？那些超大規模業者（hyperscalers）成長速度非常快，以至於他們某種程度上把其他沒有以同樣速度成長的客戶給抵消掉了。

Tim Long, Barclays.

Tim Long，巴克萊。

One question and then a follow-up. Maybe on the question -- Marc, do you want to handle this one. Backlog orders continue to be really strong. It sounds like they're going to be strong through the rest of the year. Maybe just talk a little bit about how you see that backlog playing out over the next few years in the context of -- we saw this post-COVID, and it wasn't necessarily the most smooth downtick in backlog and recognition of revenues for a lot of the companies in the industry.

一個問題，然後再追問一個。也許先談這個問題——Marc，你要不要來回答這題。積壓訂單（backlog）持續非常強勁，聽起來今年剩下的時間也會維持強勁。能否談談你如何看待未來幾年這些積壓訂單的消化節奏——放在我們看到的疫情後（post-COVID）背景下，當時對產業內許多公司而言，積壓訂單下滑以及營收認列並不一定是最平順的。

So maybe if you can just touch on that? And then second, this definitely too, Marc. If you could touch on multi-rail. I think this is something in the past you've talked about being one of the really key areas for value exchange.

所以也許你可以稍微談一下？第二個問題也一定是給你，Marc。如果你能談談 multi-rail。我想這是你過去提過、在價值交換（value exchange）方面非常關鍵的領域之一。

So now that you're getting this to the contract level, can you talk a little bit about the profitability, gross margin profile? It sounds like this is adding a lot of value for the customers. So it might be one of the products that could have a bigger step function up in profitability for Ciena.

那麼現在你們把它推進到合約層級後，能否談談獲利能力、毛利率輪廓？聽起來這為客戶帶來很大的價值。因此它可能是 Ciena 產品中，獲利能力有機會出現更大階梯式提升（step function up）的其中之一。

Tim, thanks for the questions. First on backlog, I think I would first say, it's a pretty different dynamic than we've seen after the COVID hangover. What we're seeing right now is a couple of things. One is because of the service engagements that we have and the co-collaboration that we have with each of these hyperscalers, we've got really good insight into what's going in the ground. And these things are going into the ground.

Tim，謝謝你的問題。先談積壓訂單，我想我會先說，這跟我們在 COVID 後遺症（hangover）之後看到的動態相當不同。我們現在看到的是幾件事。第一，因為我們與每一家超大規模業者都有服務合作（service engagements）以及共同協作（co-collaboration），我們對於實際在地面上建置的內容有非常好的洞察。而這些東西確實正在落地建置。

They're not going into warehouses, which I think was part of the issue that we saw during the COVID era. So first and foremost, we know it's being deployed. I think the second thing I would tell you is, if we could deliver that backlog in 2026, they would take it, right? And so we sometimes get questions of, oh, hey, is this forward ordering?

它們不是進倉庫，這我認為是 COVID 時期我們看到問題的一部分。所以最重要的是，我們知道它正在被部署。第二點我會告訴你的是，如果我們能在 2026 年把這些積壓訂單交付出去，他們會全部接收，對吧？所以我們有時會被問到：喔，這是不是提前下單（forward ordering）？

I actually think it's the exact opposite, right? It's actually pushing out. And if they could get that product in 2026 this year, they would, and they turned that into revenue. In fact, we get quite a bit of feedback from our customers, as you can imagine that. If we could deliver more networking capability, they'd be able to increase their revenue.

我其實覺得剛好相反，對吧？其實是往後推。如果他們今年就能在 2026 年拿到那些產品，他們會願意，並且把它轉成營收。事實上，我們從客戶那裡收到相當多的回饋，你可以想像得到：如果我們能交付更多網路能力，他們就能提高他們的營收。

So I think the dynamic is very different. And just to kind of dimension that 7.7, about [64] of that is hardware roughly, and we would expect about 80% of that to be delivered in the next 12 months, right? So just kind of thinking through our confidence in the delivery and how that turns into bookable revenue.

所以我認為這個動態非常不同。再稍微量化一下那個 7.7，其中大約 [64] 左右是硬體，我們預期其中約 80% 會在未來 12 個月內交付，對吧？所以這也反映我們對交付的信心，以及它如何轉化為可認列的營收。

And Tim, just like looking in the rear-view mirror and the lessons from the COVID experience. Signs that we were seeing during COVID of inventory buildup in our customers' warehouses, requests for pushing out their desired delivery dates or order cancellations, we are seeing absolutely none of that right now. In fact, quite the opposite.

Tim，再從後照鏡回看 COVID 經驗的教訓。COVID 期間我們看到的跡象包括：客戶倉庫庫存堆積、要求延後他們期望的交付日期，或取消訂單；而我們現在完全沒有看到任何這些情況。事實上，正好相反。

Yes. And then on your second question, Tim, around multi-rail. Yes, a couple of things. If you start with RLS, the single rail product, over the last couple of years, we've made amazing strides in improving the margin accretion of RLS, the single rail. As we go into hyper-rail, it is a step function elevation in what we think the accretion is going to be from hyper-rail.

是的。然後針對你第二個問題，Tim，關於 multi-rail。是的，有幾點。如果從 RLS（單軌產品，single rail product）開始，過去幾年我們在提升 RLS（單軌）的毛利增厚（margin accretion）方面取得了驚人的進展。當我們進入 hyper-rail 時，我們認為 hyper-rail 帶來的增厚將會是階梯式的提升（step function elevation）。

And so you've kind of got two things that are happening. We think hyper-rail is going to be a bigger component of our revenue. And we think that component of revenue is going to be a much better margin for us. So I would expect as this thing ramps in '27 and beyond, that is going to provide good margin expansion at the company level, which is why we keep talking about that as part of our road map to get past that way point we've been talking about in terms of gross margin.

所以你會看到兩件事同時發生。我們認為 hyper-rail 會成為我們營收中更大的組成部分；而且我們認為那部分營收對我們而言會有更好的毛利。因此我預期，當它在 2027 年及之後開始放量（ramp）時，將在公司層面帶來良好的毛利擴張。這也是為什麼我們一直把它作為路線圖的一部分，來幫助我們跨越我們一直在談的那個毛利率里程碑（way point）。

I'd say the early commercial conversations, including the orders that we've taken, have proven to be consistent with our expectations about that value exchange.

我會說，早期的商業對話（commercial conversations），包括我們已經拿到的訂單，都證明與我們對那種價值交換的預期一致。

Karl Ackerman, BNP Paribas.

Karl Ackerman，法國巴黎銀行（BNP Paribas）。

Two questions, if I may. First, to follow up on the multi-rail. As cloud providers transition to multi-rail, does that continue to tilt the tail towards two third line systems versus pluggables, where you have a more entrenched position?

如果可以的話兩個問題。第一個，延續 multi-rail 的話題。當雲端供應商轉向 multi-rail 時，是否會讓需求更偏向兩第三線系統（two third line systems）而不是可插拔（pluggables）？在可插拔這塊你們的既有地位更穩固。

And then second, is there a way to size the linear drive opportunity for you with Nubis as demand for active copper cables expands?

第二個，隨著主動式銅纜（active copper cables）的需求擴大，是否有方法可以估算你們透過 Nubis 的 linear drive 機會規模？

Yes. Let me take the first one, Karl. As you think about multi-rail, and again, I'll do the comparison with the single rail, RLS. Yes, if you think about single rail RLS in a scale across environment, that's about, call it, 100 kilometers. As you extend that, right, and you use hyper-rail that has the intermediary amplifier sites, I would expect the photonics component of that thousand kilometers to be 4 to 5 times of the photonics component of that 100-kilometer radius.

是的。Karl，我先回答第一個。談到 multi-rail，同樣我會拿單軌 RLS 來做比較。是的，如果你把單軌 RLS 放在 scale across 的環境來看，距離大約是 100 公里。當你把距離延伸，並使用具有中繼放大站點（intermediary amplifier sites）的 hyper-rail 時，我預期那個 1,000 公里範圍內的光子（photonics）組成，會是 100 公里半徑下光子組成的 4 到 5 倍。

So I think we are going to see a shift in photonics mix as you get to longer distances for scale across an AI backbone and long haul. So yes, I think your intuition is right. On the Nubis on the red river piece, we do think that there's some competitive advantages that being in the active copper cable gives us over AEC.

所以我認為，當你在 AI 骨幹網（AI backbone）與長途（long haul）上走向更長距離的 scale across 時，我們會看到光子產品組合（photonics mix）的轉移。所以是的，我覺得你的直覺是對的。至於 Nubis 的 red river 那一塊，我們確實認為，切入主動式銅纜能讓我們相較於 AEC 具備一些競爭優勢。

We've talked about that in terms of 4 times the distance are getting up to four meters and being about 90% of the power consumption. In terms of sizing that, for 2026, it's not going to be meaningful. As we get into '27 and into '28, you'll start to see that product ramp. We're not getting into exactly how big we think that is right now, but we expect that to be accretive going into '27 and '28.

我們談過這點：距離可達 4 倍、可到 4 公尺，且功耗大約是 90%。至於規模估算，2026 年不會有意義。當我們進入 2027 年與 2028 年，你會開始看到該產品放量。我們目前不會具體說我們認為規模有多大，但我們預期在 2027 與 2028 年會帶來增厚（accretive）。

And just a reminder on the Nitro piece, to that, it's really -- the analogy is it's a silicon model, it's a shift model. So the revenue is interesting, but what's more interesting actually is the margin levels on that in terms of the business model.

另外提醒一下 Nitro 那一塊，重點其實是——類比來說，它是一種矽（silicon）模式、是一種轉換（shift）模式。所以營收很有意思，但更有意思的其實是其商業模式下的毛利水準。

Thank you all. We appreciate you all joining us this morning. Look forward to catching up over the coming days and weeks. Thank you all, and we'll see you soon.

謝謝各位。我們很感謝大家今天早上加入我們。期待在接下來的幾天與幾週再與各位交流。謝謝大家，我們很快再見。

And this concludes our conference. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.

本次會議到此結束。感謝各位出席。您現在可以中斷連線。