日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2022 Q1 法說會逐字稿

I'm Kenneth Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our first quarter 2022 earnings release. Thank you for attending our conference call today. Please refer to our Safe Harbor notice on Page 2. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please disconnect at this time.

我是 ASE Technology Holdings 投資者關係主管 Kenneth Hsiang。歡迎來到我們的 2022 年第一季度收益發布。感謝您參加我們今天的電話會議。請參閱我們在第 2 頁上的安全港通知。所有參與者都同意通過參與本次活動來廣播他們的聲音和問題。如果參與者不同意，請在此時斷開連接。

I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially. For the purposes of this presentation, our dollar figures are generally stated in New Taiwan Dollars, unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan-based company, our financials are presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP. Intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses have been eliminated during consolidation.

我想提醒大家，下面的演示文稿可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述存在高度風險，我們的實際結果可能存在重大差異。就本報告而言，除非另有說明，否則我們的美元數字通常以新台幣表示。作為一家台灣公司，我們的財務按照台灣國際財務報告準則呈報。使用台灣 IFRS 呈現的結果可能與使用其他會計準則的結果存在重大差異，包括我們的子公司使用中國公認會計準則呈現的結果。我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易已在合併期間消除。

For today's call, I'm joined by Joseph Tung, our CFO. During the call, I will be going over our financial results and outlook. Joseph will be available to answer questions during the Q&A session that follows.

對於今天的電話會議，我們的首席財務官 Joseph Tung 加入了我的行列。在電話會議期間，我將討論我們的財務業績和前景。約瑟夫將在隨後的問答環節中回答問題。

As a reminder, we disposed of ASE Inc.'s China sites at the end of 2021. For our financial results presented here, in addition to our legal entity results, we will also be including additional slides on a pro forma basis or as if the disposition of ASE Inc.'s China sites had already occurred. We believe the pro forma results give additional more meaningful information, which would assist in providing comparability of our financial results.

提醒一下，我們在 2021 年底出售了 ASE Inc. 在中國的工廠。對於我們在此展示的財務業績，除了我們的法人實體業績外，我們還將在備考基礎上或好像提供其他幻燈片ASE Inc. 的中國工廠的處置已經發生。我們相信，備考結果提供了更多更有意義的信息，這將有助於提供我們財務結果的可比性。

During the first quarter, our ATM business continued to be heavily loaded. Revenues came in slightly ahead of our expectations. During the quarter, there were some customers who were reducing their forecasts, but those customers were outpaced by other customers increasing their forecasts. From a sector perspective, certain sectors do appear to be faring better such as high-performance computing, networking and automotive. And despite the slight volatility, net-net, there was no significant variation from our previous outlook.

第一季度，我們的 ATM 業務繼續保持高負荷運行。收入略高於我們的預期。在本季度，有一些客戶降低了他們的預測，但這些客戶的增長速度超過了其他客戶提高預測的速度。從行業的角度來看，某些行業的表現似乎確實更好，例如高性能計算、網絡和汽車。儘管淨值略有波動，但與我們之前的展望沒有顯著差異。

Our EMS business also had revenues that came in ahead of our expectations. During the quarter, stronger-than-anticipated demand was driven by our SiP and traditional EMS services. Logistical issues from component and chip shortages appeared to ease prior to getting worse from China's COVID mitigation practices. All in all, our EMS business fared well despite the manufacturing environment becoming more challenging.

我們的 EMS 業務的收入也超出了我們的預期。在本季度，我們的 SiP 和傳統 EMS 服務推動了強於預期的需求。組件和芯片短缺造成的後勤問題似乎在因中國的 COVID 緩解措施而變得更糟之前有所緩解。總而言之，儘管製造環境變得更具挑戰性，但我們的 EMS 業務表現良好。

On Pages 3 and 4, you will find our first quarter consolidated results with historical results on a legal entity and pro forma basis. The first quarter financial results are the same on a legal entity and pro forma basis.

在第 3 頁和第 4 頁，您會發現我們第一季度的合併結果以及基於法律實體和備考的歷史結果。第一季度的財務業績在法人實體和備考基礎上是相同的。

On Page 3 is the consolidated legal entity P&L. For the fourth quarter 2021, the disposed sites represented $6.8 billion of revenue, $1.4 billion of gross profits and $0.9 billion of operating profit. As a percentage, the disposed sites represented 4% of each fourth quarter 2021 revenues, gross profit and operating profit. For the same period last year, the sites disposed represented $5.6 billion of revenue, $1 billion of gross profit and $0.5 billion of operating profit. As a percentage, the disposed entities were 5% of each revenues, gross profit and operating profit.

第 3 頁是合併的法人實體損益表。對於 2021 年第四季度，處置的場地代表了 68 億美元的收入、14 億美元的毛利潤和 9 億美元的營業利潤。按百分比計算，處置的場地佔 2021 年第四季度收入、毛利和營業利潤的 4%。去年同期，出售的網站帶來了 56 億美元的收入、10 億美元的毛利潤和 5 億美元的營業利潤。作為百分比，被處置的實體佔每個收入、毛利和營業利潤的 5%。

On Page 4 is our first quarter results compared with a pro forma basis historical results. For the first quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of $2.92 and basic EPS of $3.01. Consolidated net revenue decreased 13% sequentially while increasing 27% year-over-year. We had a gross profit of $28.5 billion with a gross margin of 19.7%. Our gross margin increased by 0.8 percentage points sequentially and by 1.4 percentage points year-over-year. The sequential margin improvement is principally the result of lower EMS business mix. The annual increase is primarily the result of higher profitability of our ATM business.

第 4 頁是我們的第一季度業績與備考歷史業績的比較。第一季度，我們的完全攤薄每股收益為 2.92 美元，基本每股收益為 3.01 美元。綜合淨收入環比下降 13%，而同比增長 27%。我們的毛利潤為 285 億美元，毛利率為 19.7%。我們的毛利率環比增長 0.8 個百分點，同比增長 1.4 個百分點。利潤率的環比改善主要是由於 EMS 業務組合減少。年度增長主要是由於我們的 ATM 業務盈利能力提高。

Our operating expenses decreased sequentially by $0.3 billion during the first quarter to $12.4 billion, primarily as a result of lower bonus and profit-sharing expenses issued during the quarter. On a year-over-year basis, our operating expenses increased by $1.9 billion, mainly from the increase in scale of both our ATM and EMS businesses. Our operating expense percentage increased 1 percentage point sequentially to 8.6% from 7.6%. On an annual basis, our operating expense percentage declined 0.6 percentage points from 9.2%.

我們的運營費用在第一季度環比減少 3 億美元至 124 億美元，主要是由於本季度發放的獎金和利潤分享費用減少。與去年同期相比，我們的運營費用增加了 19 億美元，主要來自我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務規模的增加。我們的營業費用百分比從 7.6% 環比上升 1 個百分點至 8.6%。按年度計算，我們的營業費用百分比從 9.2% 下降了 0.6 個百分點。

Operating profit was $16.1 billion, down $2.7 billion sequentially, while up $5.7 billion year-over-year. Operating margin was 11.2%, declining 0.1 percentage points sequentially. This relatively moderate decline was principally the result of lower EMS product mix. Operating margin increased 2.1 percentage points on an annual basis as a result of higher loading and profitability from our ATM business.

營業利潤為 161 億美元，環比下降 27 億美元，而同比增長 57 億美元。營業利潤率為11.2%，環比下降0.1個百分點。這種相對溫和的下降主要是由於 EMS 產品組合較低。由於我們的 ATM 業務更高的負載和盈利能力，營業利潤率每年增長 2.1 個百分點。

During the quarter, we had a net nonoperating gain of $0.6 billion. The nonoperating gain was primarily from our net foreign exchange hedging activities, offset in part by net interest expense of $0.4 billion. Tax expense for the quarter was $3.3 billion. The effective tax rate for the first quarter was 19.7%. We expect a full year effective tax rate of 20%.

本季度，我們的非經營性淨收益為 6 億美元。營業外收益主要來自我們的淨外匯對沖活動，部分被 4 億美元的淨利息支出所抵消。本季度的稅收支出為 33 億美元。第一季度的有效稅率為19.7%。我們預計全年有效稅率為 20%。

Net income for the quarter was $12.9 billion, representing a decline of $1.6 billion sequentially and an improvement of $4.9 billion year-over-year. The NT dollar-U.S. dollar exchange rate was fairly stable from the fourth quarter 2021 to the first quarter 2022 and, as a result, did not sequentially impact holding company level margins meaningfully. However, from a year-over-year perspective, we estimate that the strengthening NT dollar had 1 percentage point negative impact to gross margin. As a general rule of thumb, for every percent the NT dollar appreciates, we see a corresponding 0.3 percentage point impact to our holding company gross margin.

本季度淨收入為 129 億美元，環比下降 16 億美元，同比增長 49 億美元。新台幣-美元從 2021 年第四季度到 2022 年第一季度，美元匯率相當穩定，因此並未對控股公司的利潤率產生重大影響。但是，從同比來看，我們估計新台幣走強對毛利率有 1 個百分點的負面影響。作為一般經驗法則，新台幣每升值百分之一，我們看到對我們控股公司毛利率的相應影響為 0.3 個百分點。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Consolidated gross profit, excluding PPA expenses, would be $29.4 billion with a 20.4% gross margin. Operating profit would be $17.3 billion with an operating margin of 12%. Net profit would be $14.1 billion with a net margin of 9.7%. Basic EPS, excluding PPA expenses, would be $3.28.

在頁面底部，我們提供了關鍵的損益表項目，但不包括與 PPA 相關的費用。不包括 PPA 費用的合併毛利潤為 294 億美元，毛利率為 20.4%。營業利潤為 173 億美元，營業利潤率為 12%。淨利潤為 141 億美元，淨利潤率為 9.7%。不包括 PPA 費用的基本每股收益為 3.28 美元。

On Pages 5 and 6 are our ATM P&L with historical results on a legal entity and pro forma basis. It is worth noting here that the ATM revenue reported here contains revenue eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses. During the first quarter, our ATM business continued to run at a highly loaded rate. Our advanced packaging business remains strong. However, as expected, we did experience some mild first quarter seasonality from our wirebond business.

第 5 頁和第 6 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表，其中包含法人實體和備考基礎上的歷史結果。值得注意的是，此處報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層面消除的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。在第一季度，我們的 ATM 業務繼續以高負載率運行。我們的先進封裝業務依然強勁。然而，正如預期的那樣，我們確實從我們的引線鍵合業務中經歷了一些溫和的第一季度季節性。

On Page 5 is the legal entity ATM P&L. From a legal entity perspective, our ATM business declined 9%, primarily as a result of the disposition of ASE Inc.'s China sites. For the fourth quarter 2021, the disposed sites were $6.8 billion and 7% of revenue, $1.4 billion and 6% of gross profits and $0.9 billion and 5% of operating profit. For the same period last year, the disposed sites were $5.6 billion and 8% of revenue, $1 billion and 6% of gross profits and $0.5 billion or 5% of operating profit.

第 5 頁是法人實體 ATM P&L。從法人實體的角度來看，我們的 ATM 業務下降了 9%，這主要是由於 ASE Inc. 的中國站點的處置。 2021 年第四季度，處置的場地為 68 億美元，佔收入的 7%，14 億美元，佔毛利潤的 6%，9 億美元，佔營業利潤的 5%。去年同期，處置的場地為 56 億美元，佔收入的 8%，10 億美元，佔毛利潤的 6%，5 億美元，佔營業利潤的 5%。

On Page 6 is our pro forma basis, ATM P&L. For the first quarter 2022, revenues for our ATM business were $84 billion, down $1.2 billion from the previous quarter and up $15.9 billion from the same period last year. This represents a 1% decrease sequentially and a 23% increase year-over-year.

第 6 頁是我們的備考基礎，ATM P&L。 2022 年第一季度，我們 ATM 業務的收入為 840 億美元，比上一季度減少 12 億美元，比去年同期增加 159 億美元。這意味著環比下降 1%，同比增長 23%。

Our ATM revenues came in ahead of our expectations due to higher-than-expected loading and production efficiency. Gross profit for our ATM business was $23.1 billion, down $1.2 billion sequentially and up $6.1 billion year-over-year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 27.5%, down 1 percentage point sequentially and up 2.6 percentage points year-over-year. As discussed in the previous quarter, our fourth quarter 2021 ATM gross margin contained a reclassification for bonus. Without the inclusion of the reclassification, fourth quarter gross margin would be 28.1%. And as such, first quarter gross margin would only be down 0.6 percentage points.

由於裝載和生產效率高於預期，我們的 ATM 收入超出了我們的預期。我們 ATM 業務的毛利潤為 231 億美元，環比下降 12 億美元，同比增長 61 億美元。 ATM業務毛利率為27.5%，環比下降1個百分點，同比上升2.6個百分點。如上一季度所述，我們 2021 年第四季度的 ATM 毛利率包含對獎金的重新分類。如果不包括重新分類，第四季度的毛利率將為 28.1%。因此，第一季度毛利率只會下降 0.6 個百分點。

The year-over-year gross profit margin improvement was primarily attributable to higher loading, improved efficiency and a friendlier ASP environment, offset in part by NT dollar appreciation. During the first quarter, operating expenses were $9.1 billion, flat sequentially and up $1.5 billion or 20% year-over-year. The 20% annual increase was lower than our 23% net revenue growth during the same period. As such, the year-over-year increase was primarily driven by a larger scale of business. Our operating expense percentage was 10.8%, up 0.1 percentage points sequentially and down 0.3 percentage points year-over-year.

毛利率同比增長主要歸因於更高的負載、提高的效率和更友好的 ASP 環境，部分被新台幣升值所抵消。第一季度，運營費用為 91 億美元，環比持平，同比增長 15 億美元或 20%。 20% 的年增長率低於我們同期 23% 的淨收入增長率。因此，同比增長主要是由更大的業務規模推動的。營業費用率為10.8%，環比上升0.1個百分點，同比下降0.3個百分點。

During the first quarter, operating profit was $14 billion, representing a decline of $1.2 billion quarter-over-quarter and an improvement of $4.6 billion year-over-year. Operating margin was 16.7%, declining 1.2 percentage points sequentially and improving 2.9 percentage points year-over-year.

第一季度，營業利潤為 140 億美元，環比下降 12 億美元，同比增長 46 億美元。營業利潤率為16.7%，環比下降1.2個百分點，同比提高2.9個百分點。

The NT dollar exchange rate did not have a significant impact on our ATM sequential margins. However, on a year-over-year basis, we estimate that the strengthening NT dollar had a 0.75 percentage point negative impact. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 28.5%, and operating profit margin would be 18%.

新台幣匯率對我們的 ATM 連續保證金沒有顯著影響。然而，按年計算，我們估計新台幣走強帶來了 0.75 個百分點的負面影響。如果不考慮 PPA 相關折舊和攤銷的影響，ATM 毛利率為 28.5%，營業利潤率為 18%。

On Page 7, you'll find a graphical representation of our pro forma ATM P&L.

在第 7 頁，您將找到我們的備考 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。

On Page 8 is our pro forma ATM revenue by market segment. We would like to mention here that we expect the automotive segment to grow significantly during the year and for many years to come. We believe that this increase is not being primarily driven by shortage catch-ups. Instead, we believe that overall semiconductor content increases have accelerated recently. Further, the content increase is being amplified by a new wave of outsourcing from IDMs, which have traditionally kept most production in-house. Given the necessity of quality and scalability for our automotive products, we further believe that the market expansions will only be made available to Tier 1 suppliers, and within those, primarily ASE.

第 8 頁是我們按細分市場劃分的備考 ATM 收入。我們想在這裡提一下，我們預計汽車市場在今年和未來很多年都會顯著增長。我們認為，這種增長主要不是由短缺追趕推動的。相反，我們認為整體半導體含量的增長最近加速了。此外，IDM 的新一波外包正在放大內容的增長，IDM 傳統上將大部分生產保留在內部。鑑於我們汽車產品的質量和可擴展性的必要性，我們進一步認為，市場擴張將只提供給一級供應商，在這些供應商中，主要是 ASE。

On Page 9, you will find our pro forma ATM revenue by service type. During the quarter, we saw strength in our advanced packaging services, which increased 3 percentage points. Wirebonding exhibited some seasonality, dropping 2 percentage points. From a forward-looking perspective, we expect our test and advanced packaging businesses, including bumping, flip chip and fan-out to continue to ramp faster than the corporate average during the coming year.

在第 9 頁，您會發現我們按服務類型劃分的備考 ATM 收入。在本季度，我們看到了我們的先進包裝服務的實力，增長了 3 個百分點。引線鍵合表現出一定的季節性，下降了 2 個百分點。從前瞻性的角度來看，我們預計我們的測試和先進封裝業務，包括凸塊、倒裝芯片和扇出，在來年將繼續以高於公司平均水平的速度增長。

On Page 10, you can see the first quarter results of our EMS business. The information we provide here in regards to USI may differ materially from the information directly provided by our A-share-listed subsidiary as they report independently using Chinese GAAP. During the quarter, demand was stronger than anticipated, driven by stronger-than-expected demand for both our traditional EMS and SiP services. Component and chip shortages continue to persist throughout the first quarter. Overall, operating conditions became more challenging as China's COVID mitigation strategy ramped. We do have countermeasures in place to continue our EMS production within China. We remain confident of the policies and procedures we have put in place to protect our employees and the overall manufacturing environment. But the overall macro situation remains dynamic. For our EMS business, during the first quarter, revenues decreased 25% sequentially and increased 28% year-over-year.

在第 10 頁，您可以看到我們 EMS 業務的第一季度業績。我們在此提供的有關環旭電子的信息可能與我們的 A 股上市子公司直接提供的信息存在重大差異，因為它們使用中國公認會計原則獨立報告。在本季度，由於對我們的傳統 EMS 和 SiP 服務的需求強於預期，需求強於預期。組件和芯片短缺在整個第一季度持續存在。總體而言，隨著中國 COVID 緩解戰略的加強，運營條件變得更具挑戰性。我們確實有相應的對策來繼續我們在中國的 EMS 生產。我們仍然對我們為保護員工和整體製造環境而製定的政策和程序充滿信心。但總體宏觀形勢依然充滿活力。對於我們的 EMS 業務，第一季度收入環比下降 25%，同比增長 28%。

Revenues were somewhat ahead of where we expected, primarily as a result of higher-than-expected SiP and traditional EMS business. Our EMS gross profit was $5.4 billion, declining $1.7 billion sequentially and increasing $1.4 billion year-over-year. The sequential gross profit decline is largely seasonal. The year-over-year improvement is largely related to more EMS business.

收入略高於我們的預期，主要是由於高於預期的 SiP 和傳統 EMS 業務。我們的 EMS 毛利潤為 54 億美元，環比下降 17 億美元，同比增長 14 億美元。連續毛利潤下降主要是季節性的。同比的改善主要與更多的EMS業務有關。

Gross profit margin for our EMS business unit was 8.8%, which is an improvement of 0.1 percentage points sequentially and 0.4 percentage points year-over-year. The margin improvements are primarily the result of product mix changes and improved operating efficiency. Our EMS business unit's first quarter operating expenses were $3.2 billion, decreasing $0.3 billion sequentially and increasing $0.4 billion year-over-year. Operating expenses declined primarily as a result of lower employee profit-sharing expenses. Operating expenses increased annually as a result of higher scale of operations.

我們的 EMS 業務部門的毛利率為 8.8%，環比提高 0.1 個百分點，同比提高 0.4 個百分點。利潤率的提高主要是產品組合變化和運營效率提高的結果。我們的 EMS 業務部門第一季度運營費用為 32 億美元，環比減少 3 億美元，同比增加 4 億美元。營業費用下降的主要原因是員工利潤分享費用減少。由於經營規模擴大，經營費用逐年增加。

Our EMS unit's operating expense percentage was 5.2%, up 0.9 percentage points sequentially and down 0.7 percentage points year-over-year. The operating expense percentage increase is primarily due to seasonally lower revenue. On an annual basis, the operating expense percentage decline is due to increased scale of business with a lower increase in operating expenses or more operating leverage.

我們的 EMS 部門的運營費用百分比為 5.2%，環比上升 0.9 個百分點，同比下降 0.7 個百分點。營業費用百分比增加主要是由於季節性收入下降。按年度計算，營業費用百分比下降是由於業務規模增加，營業費用增加幅度較小或經營槓桿增加所致。

Our EMS operating profit declined $1.4 billion sequentially while growing $1 billion year-over-year. The sequential decline is due to seasonality of the business. The annual increase is the result of a higher scale of operations. Our EMS operating margin was 3.6%, which is down 0.8 percentage points sequentially and up 1.1 percentage points year-over-year.

我們的 EMS 營業利潤環比下降 14 億美元，但同比增長 10 億美元。連續下降是由於業務的季節性。每年的增長是經營規模擴大的結果。我們的 EMS 營業利潤率為 3.6%，環比下降 0.8 個百分點，同比上升 1.1 個百分點。

On the bottom half of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. Outside of automotive applications, most other applications had a seasonal decline in revenue during the first quarter. Our consumer segment's drop was stronger as it was tied to the seasonality of underlying high-volume SiP products.

在頁面的下半部分，您會發現我們的 EMS 收入（按應用程序）的圖形表示。除汽車應用外，大多數其他應用在第一季度的收入都出現季節性下降。我們的消費者部門的跌幅更大，因為它與潛在的大批量 SiP 產品的季節性有關。

On Page 11, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the quarter, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of $89.1 billion. Our total interest-bearing debt was $225.1 billion. Total unused credit lines amounted to $285.9 billion. Our EBITDA for the quarter was $30.7 billion. Net debt to equity was 52%.

在第 11 頁，您將找到我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。在本季度末，我們擁有 891 億美元的現金、現金等價物和流動金融資產。我們的有息債務總額為 2251 億美元。未使用的信貸額度總額為 2859 億美元。我們本季度的 EBITDA 為 307 億美元。淨債務權益比率為 52%。

On Page 12, you will find our equipment capital expenditures. Machine and equipment capital expenditures for the first quarter in U.S. dollars totaled $443 million, of which $311 million were used in packaging operations, $96 million in test operations, $26 million in EMS operations and $10 million in interconnect material operations and others. We continue to provide our EBITDA in U.S. dollars here as a reference. We believe that the company's EBITDA relative to our equipment CapEx serves as a key financial performance metric for the company.

在第 12 頁，您將找到我們的設備資本支出。第一季度以美元計的機器和設備資本支出總計 4.43 億美元，其中 3.11 億美元用於封裝業務，9600 萬美元用於測試業務，2600 萬美元用於 EMS 業務，1000 萬美元用於互連材料業務等。我們繼續在此處以美元提供我們的 EBITDA 作為參考。我們認為，公司的 EBITDA 相對於我們的設備資本支出是公司的關鍵財務業績指標。

Looking out into the second quarter, we continue to believe the business environment remains relatively healthy. We still believe we have a strong growth year ahead of us. Our view of double the logic semiconductor industry growth remains unchanged. And though we understand there are certain macro elements that may cause future retuning of the logic semiconductor growth outlook, we believe that amongst back-end service providers, we are our customers' first choice.

展望第二季度，我們仍然認為商業環境仍然相對健康。我們仍然相信我們將迎來強勁增長的一年。我們對邏輯半導體行業雙倍增長的看法保持不變。儘管我們了解某些宏觀因素可能會導致未來邏輯半導體增長前景的重新調整，但我們相信在後端服務提供商中，我們是客戶的首選。

From a macro concerns perspective, worldwide inflation and the Russia-Ukraine war's impact on overall electronics demand remains relatively unknown. Our outlooks and corporate plans are tied to the outlooks and expectations of our customers. And as mentioned earlier, some customers in certain sectors have reduced their overall outlooks. However, these reductions have been fully offset by increases from other customers and other sectors.

從宏觀擔憂的角度來看，全球通脹和俄烏戰爭對整體電子產品需求的影響仍然相對未知。我們的前景和企業計劃與客戶的前景和期望息息相關。如前所述，某些行業的一些客戶已經降低了他們的整體前景。然而，這些減少已完全被其他客戶和其他部門的增長所抵消。

If we look at our top 5 customers during the past quarter, we had a net positive forecast adjustment. And even if there is adjustment to demand, we believe our customers will flee to security, which benefits us the most. Further, we do see China's COVID-mitigation strategy as a concern. We currently have adequate immediate workarounds within our China operations to continue running but secondary and tertiary impacts to factory supplies and raw materials can reach far beyond the PRC. Obviously, mitigation duration and severity will directly correlate to how severe the repercussions are along the entire supply chain. We currently believe our factories have effective workarounds and alternate vendors during the second quarter to avoid manufacturing disruptions.

如果我們查看上一季度的前 5 名客戶，我們的預測調整為淨正數。即使需求有所調整，我們相信我們的客戶也會逃到安全的地方，這對我們最有利。此外，我們確實認為中國的新冠病毒緩解戰略令人擔憂。我們目前在中國業務中有足夠的即時變通辦法來繼續運營，但對工廠供應和原材料的二次和三次影響可能遠遠超出中國。顯然，緩解持續時間和嚴重程度將直接關係到整個供應鏈中影響的嚴重程度。我們目前認為，我們的工廠在第二季度有有效的解決方法和替代供應商，以避免製造中斷。

Finally, Taiwan-centric issues, such as the recent COVID surge, are also creating factory level operational complexities. Our Taiwan factories are taking appropriate measures to prevent the spread of the disease within our factories. Taiwan's pragmatic approach should create manageable disruptions in Taiwan due to COVID mitigation. However, such policies may make running our various Taiwan factories less efficient.

最後，以台灣為中心的問題，例如最近的 COVID 激增，也造成了工廠層面的運營複雜性。我們的台灣工廠正在採取適當的措施來防止疾病在我們的工廠內傳播。由於 COVID 緩解，台灣的務實做法應在台灣造成可控的干擾。然而，這樣的政策可能會降低我們在台灣的各種工廠的運作效率。

Due to these factors, we do see a near-term increase in running costs related to the suboptimal macro environment. At this time, we expect the higher-cost environment to last between 1 to 2 quarters. Even with extra costs, we continue to expect improving full year gross margins. For our EMS business, a large portion of our manufacturing is in China. The overall operating conditions there have become more challenging with China's COVID-mitigation strategy. especially staffing and logistics. We do have countermeasures in place to continue our EMS production within China. For our business, the second quarter is generally part of the seasonal trough. And as such, keeping up with slow season demand should not pose a significant challenge.

由於這些因素，我們確實看到與次優宏觀環境相關的運營成本近期會增加。目前，我們預計高成本環境將持續 1 至 2 個季度。即使有額外的成本，我們仍然預計全年毛利率會有所提高。對於我們的 EMS 業務，我們的大部分製造都在中國。隨著中國的抗疫戰略，那裡的整體運營條件變得更具挑戰性。尤其是人員配備和物流。我們確實有相應的對策來繼續我們在中國的 EMS 生產。對於我們的業務而言，第二季度通常是季節性低谷的一部分。因此，跟上淡季需求不應構成重大挑戰。

For the near term, we remain confident that the policies and procedures we have put in place will protect our employees and our manufacturing environment. At this time, we do not see major disruptions to our production. But like our ATM business, we do see some incremental costs.

在短期內，我們仍然相信我們制定的政策和程序將保護我們的員工和我們的製造環境。目前，我們沒有看到我們的生產受到重大干擾。但就像我們的 ATM 業務一樣，我們確實看到了一些增量成本。

With that said, our guidance for the second quarter is as follows: for our ATM business on a pro forma basis in U.S. dollar terms, our ATM second quarter 2022 business level should be slightly above fourth quarter 2021 levels. On a pro forma basis, our ATM second quarter 2022 gross margin should be slightly above our first quarter 2022 gross margin. For our EMS business, in U.S. dollar terms, our EMS second quarter 2022 business level should be similar with first quarter 2022 levels. Our EMS second quarter 2022 operating margin should be slightly lower than first quarter 2022 levels.

話雖如此，我們對第二季度的指導如下：對於我們的 ATM 業務，以美元計價，我們的 ATM 2022 年第二季度業務水平應略高於 2021 年第四季度的水平。在備考基礎上，我們的 ATM 2022 年第二季度毛利率應略高於我們 2022 年第一季度的毛利率。對於我們的 EMS 業務，以美元計算，我們 2022 年第二季度的 EMS 業務水平應與 2022 年第一季度的水平相似。我們的 EMS 2022 年第二季度營業利潤率應略低於 2022 年第一季度的水平。

With that, we can start the Q&A section at this time.

有了這個，我們可以在這個時候開始問答部分。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question is from Mr. Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams 先生。

Okay. Yes. Good result and outlook considering all the COVID disruptions. First question, it sounds like the EMS business [is] tracking better than you were expecting a few months ago, just given macro has changed a bit. And I believe USI also on their call talked about a bit better outlook. Could you give the view for growth this year for that business? And maybe discuss a bit more on where you're seeing the strength or upside in EMS.

好的。是的。考慮到所有 COVID 中斷，取得了良好的結果和前景。第一個問題，聽起來 EMS 業務 [is] 跟踪比您幾個月前預期的要好，只是宏觀發生了一些變化。而且我相信USI也在他們的電話中談到了更好的前景。您能否介紹一下該業務今年的增長情況？也許更多地討論一下您在 EMS 中看到的優勢或優勢。

I think the overall EMS business of ours has continued to remain strong. Although there will be some foreseeable disruptions particularly coming into second quarter and may last to end of second quarter or even into, to some degree, the third quarter. But all in all, I think the overall momentum remains to be strong.

我認為我們的整體EMS業務繼續保持強勁。儘管會出現一些可預見的中斷，尤其是進入第二季度，並且可能會持續到第二季度末，甚至在某種程度上甚至會持續到第三季度。但總而言之，我認為整體勢頭仍然強勁。

We continue to make inroads in terms of expanding our said projects with new customers. The traditional EMS business, we've continued to see strong momentum, particularly in the automotive sector. All in, I think the overall business environment, all the business momentum continues to be strong for the year, same as our ATM business.

我們繼續在擴大與新客戶的上述項目方面取得進展。傳統的EMS業務，我們繼續看到強勁的勢頭，特別是在汽車領域。總而言之，我認為整體的商業環境，所有的業務勢頭今年繼續強勁，就像我們的 ATM 業務一樣。

Right. Is it in the same automotive? How much of a driver? I know I see ATM, I think, last quarter, 40% growth this year. Is it starting to move the needle for EMS or it's still fairly small?

正確的。是在同一輛車上嗎？司機多少錢？我知道我看到了 ATM，我認為，上個季度，今年增長了 40%。它是開始為 EMS 移動針還是它仍然相當小？

Yes. I think the growth for this year in terms of automotive will be even stronger than last year. And I think the USI has already put out a target of reaching about $1 billion revenue by 2024, which is actually a year earlier than our previous target. So I think they're seeing very strong momentum in that area, particularly with the addition of Asteelflash who has a fairly large and growing exposures in the automotive sector that the -- putting the 2 together really makes the momentum much stronger now.

是的。我認為今年汽車方面的增長將比去年更加強勁。而且我認為 USI 已經提出了到 2024 年達到約 10 億美元收入的目標，這實際上比我們之前的目標提前了一年。因此，我認為他們在該領域看到了非常強勁的勢頭，特別是隨著 Asteelflash 的加入，他在汽車領域擁有相當大且不斷增長的風險敞口，將兩者放在一起確實使現在的勢頭更加強勁。

Okay. And I wanted to ask 2 offsets on the margin. One is the cost. Is there a way to think how much that cost is? You mentioned probably 1 to 2 quarters higher costs. Like how much impact is -- and is that a gross or at the operating margin level?

好的。我想在保證金上要求 2 個偏移量。一是成本。有沒有辦法想想這個成本是多少？您提到的成本可能高出 1 到 2 個季度。比如影響有多大——這是毛利率水平還是營業利潤率水平？

And on the plus side for the NT dollar, when you mentioned the gross margin slightly above first quarter, is that factoring a certain currency assumption?

對新台幣有利的一面，當您提到毛利率略高於第一季度時，這是考慮到某種貨幣假設嗎？

Yes. I think we put all the considerations into it. And I think, first of all, we are coming off a very, very strong first quarter, and the margin was much higher than we originally expected. So going into second quarter, because of the -- a lot of the disruptions that we are seeing, we will rather be more cautious or more conservative in terms of projecting our margin situation.

是的。我想我們把所有的考慮都考慮進去了。我認為，首先，我們的第一季度表現非常非常強勁，利潤率遠高於我們最初的預期。因此，進入第二季度，由於我們看到的很多中斷，我們在預測我們的利潤率情況時寧願更加謹慎或更保守。

The additional costs coming from this COVID disruption comes from many directions, including the additional costs that we need to spend on protecting our employees. Some logistics costs will be increasing. Some material costs will be increasing. There's a lot of factors that are kind of putting a lot of pressure on the cost side. So I think it would be very, very naive if we don't put those consideration into our margin expectations for the quarter.

這次 COVID 中斷帶來的額外成本來自多個方面，包括我們需要花費在保護員工方面的額外成本。一些物流成本將會增加。一些材料成本將增加。有很多因素給成本方面帶來了很大的壓力。因此，我認為如果我們不將這些考慮因素納入本季度的利潤率預期，那將是非常非常天真的。

Okay. And I'm curious on the environment. Earlier this week, TI took quite a big haircut of $500 million from guidance where it looks like slowing shipments due to all the factory disruptions.

好的。我對環境很好奇。本週早些時候，德州儀器從指導中大幅削減了 5 億美元，由於所有工廠中斷，看起來出貨量放緩。

But from your side, are you seeing any cause where customers are reflecting the downstream disruption or tackling a bit of a demand disruption? So is that -- have you seen much impact to our customers continuing to keep relatively steady flows through some of the issues?

但是從您的角度來看，您是否看到客戶反映下游中斷或解決一些需求中斷的任何原因？那麼，您是否看到我們的客戶繼續通過某些問題保持相對穩定的流動對我們的客戶產生了很大影響？

Well, I think the overall order looks very healthy. But then the -- there's a lot of different situations that may -- has a negative impact on the actual delivery of the parts or the material that was needed for the production. So I think selective customers may have their different views on how things are going with them. But as a whole, particularly the EMS, particularly in China area, we are seeing some logistics difficulties in terms of moving our products out and moving the materials in. So there are a lot of, I think, obstacles that we need to go through.

好吧，我認為整體訂單看起來非常健康。但是，有很多不同的情況可能會對零件的實際交付或生產所需的材料產生負面影響。所以我認為選擇性客戶可能對他們的情況有不同的看法。但作為一個整體，特別是EMS，特別是在中國地區，我們在將產品運出和材料運入方面遇到了一些物流困難。所以我認為我們需要克服很多障礙.

So far, we have been managing this quite well, and therefore, it's not -- we haven't seen that much of an impact on the overall. Whatever impact there is in terms of the revenue side, we do feel confident that we can recuperate in the later part of the year.

到目前為止，我們一直在很好地管理這一點，因此，它不是——我們還沒有看到對整體產生太大影響。無論收入方面有什麼影響，我們都相信我們可以在今年晚些時候恢復。

Great. And my final question on CapEx, the last few quarters running about $425 million to $440 million. Are you now -- I think the original guidance was it'll be up a bit like $2 billion plus. I guess if you have an update how your CapEx view, and there has been a lot of front end...

偉大的。最後一個關於資本支出的問題是，過去幾個季度的運營成本約為 4.25 億美元至 4.4 億美元。你現在是 - 我認為最初的指導是它會增加 20 億美元以上。我想如果你有更新你的資本支出視圖，並且有很多前端......

Randy?

蘭迪？

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes. Randy?

是的。蘭迪？

Yes?

是的？

We're going to let the next analyst to ask questions.

我們將讓下一位分析師提問。

Well, let me answer this question. I think for the whole year, our CapEx remain at what we've been saying before, it's about $2 billion level. But the composition of it will be somewhat different from the last year. I think this year, I think we will increase the percentage of our test investment. I think the overall breakdown will shift to about 51% for assembly, 34% for test, 11% for EMS and then another 3% for material.

好吧，讓我來回答這個問題。我認為全年，我們的資本支出保持在我們之前所說的水平，約為 20 億美元。但它的構成將與去年有所不同。我認為今年，我認為我們將增加測試投資的百分比。我認為總體細分將轉移到大約 51% 的組裝、34% 的測試、11% 的 EMS 和另外 3% 的材料。

Our next question is from Mr. Gokul Hariharan.

我們的下一個問題來自 Gokul Hariharan 先生。

Could you talk a little bit more in detail about where -- which are the kind of customers who started to see some weakness, just some more detail on the dynamics you're seeing like some segments you're starting to see some weakness. You're able to fill up some of that capacity with other segments. Is it more happening in your wirebond business? Is it happening more in the flip chip and bumping areas?

你能否更詳細地談談在哪裡 - 哪些客戶開始看到一些弱點，只是關於你所看到的動態的更多細節，比如你開始看到一些弱點的部分。您可以使用其他細分市場來填補其中的一些容量。在您的引線鍵合業務中發生的情況更多嗎？它在倒裝芯片和凸塊領域發生得更多嗎？

And could you also kind of talk a little bit about -- I mean, you reiterated you are double the logic semi growth, and it seems like first half is tracking quite well. Do you feel that there is a potential risk coming in second half as a result of kind of some of the end market weakness that you're seeing? Or do you think that there is enough of an order book that can cover for any kind of weakness in the consumer segments in second half?

你能否也談談 - 我的意思是，你重申你的邏輯半增長是雙倍的，看起來上半年跟踪得很好。您是否認為由於您看到的一些終端市場疲軟，下半年存在潛在風險？或者你認為有足夠的訂單可以彌補下半年消費者細分市場的任何弱點嗎？

Well, I think everybody knows that we're seeing some softness in the Android area. So cell phone or some of the consumer products seems to be relatively weaker than the other sectors. I think the -- from our standpoint, I think the overall situation still remains very healthy. I think the -- in terms of high-performance computing, in terms of networking and automotive, we still see very, very strong momentum.

好吧，我想每個人都知道我們在 Android 領域看到了一些軟弱。所以手機或者一些消費產品似乎比其他行業相對弱一些。我認為 - 從我們的角度來看，我認為總體情況仍然非常健康。我認為 - 在高性能計算方面，在網絡和汽車方面，我們仍然看到非常非常強勁的勢頭。

And I think, overall, even at the weaker sectors, I think because of the increasing application and also IC contents that will provide a layer of support to the overall growth in unit growth. Also, I think one of the driver for us is the increasing outsourcing trend particularly for the IDM and particularly in the automotive area.

而且我認為，總體而言，即使在較弱的行業，我認為由於應用程序的增加以及 IC 內容的增加，將為單位增長的整體增長提供一層支持。此外，我認為我們的驅動力之一是日益增長的外包趨勢，特別是對於 IDM，尤其是在汽車領域。

So putting all things together, I think the -- we still see very healthy unit growth for the year for us. And also in -- I think, as Ken mentioned earlier on in this uncertain period of time, I think most of the customers will seek for security. And a company like us that has more secure capacity and also much better sourcing power, I think that we will become the customer's first choice. And that, all things put together, should give us very strong confidence in a growth year -- for this year.

因此，將所有事情放在一起，我認為 - 我們仍然看到今年我們的單位增長非常健康。而且在 - 我認為，正如肯在這個不確定的時期之前提到的那樣，我認為大多數客戶都會尋求安全性。而像我們這樣擁有更安全的產能和更好的採購能力的公司，我認為我們將成為客戶的首選。而且，所有事情放在一起，應該讓我們對今年的增長充滿信心。

And also, as we mentioned, although we are a little bit conservative about second quarter margin, all in all, we will continue to see sequential growth in our margin. And in the first quarter, we already surpassed our historical peak of 27% gross margins. And we will see that trend continue. And we will have a new peak for the -- in terms of gross margin for the year.

而且，正如我們所提到的，儘管我們對第二季度的利潤率有點保守，但總而言之，我們將繼續看到我們的利潤率連續增長。在第一季度，我們的毛利率已經超過了 27% 的歷史峰值。我們將看到這種趨勢繼續下去。就今年的毛利率而言，我們將迎來新的高峰。

Understood. So just a follow-up on that. On automotive, could you talk a little bit about how much is automotive now as a percentage of ATM? I know that your kind of combined consumer industry, automotive and others is 30-plus percent. But what is automotive alone? And how do you see that evolve in the next 4, 5 years, given that a lot of tailwinds are coming in terms of outsourcing, dollar content growth, et cetera? Is it something like 25% of revenues could be coming from automotive in the next 3, 4 years?

明白了。所以只是跟進。關於汽車，您能談談現在汽車佔 ATM 的百分比嗎？我知道你們這種綜合消費行業、汽車行業和其他行業的比例是 30% 以上。但汽車本身是什麼？鑑於外包、美元內容增長等方面的諸多利好因素，您如何看待未來 4、5 年的發展？未來 3 年、4 年是否有 25% 的收入可能來自汽車行業？

Yes. I think the overall momentum is still very strong at this point. I think last year was about 6%. And we're seeing that to grow to over 7% for this year in terms of our ATM automotive business. And we'll be reaching a $1 billion mark for this year. The same kind of momentum for EMS. I think for EMS, we had about 50% growth, and that growth rate will further expand this year. And as a whole, I think -- for EMS, it will also reach about 7% of the overall revenue in automotive.

是的。我認為在這一點上整體勢頭仍然非常強勁。我認為去年約為 6%。就我們的 ATM 汽車業務而言，我們看到今年這一比例將增長到 7% 以上。今年我們將達到 10 億美元大關。 EMS 也有同樣的勢頭。我認為對於 EMS，我們有大約 50% 的增長，而且這個增長率今年會進一步擴大。總的來說，我認為——對於 EMS，它也將達到汽車總收入的 7% 左右。

And longer term, I think we will continue -- with the automation, further automation of our factories, I think there will be more and more automotive business coming in. I think the name of the game in terms of automotive is not on the legacy or the existing products. But the new application or new chips that are coming out. First of all, this will be the new business that we will get. And second is that these are the businesses that the IDM will be outsourcing. And when these automotive chips with higher reliability requirement, I think the customers will go to the Tier 1 supplier like us who has the capacity and new technology and also the quality to secure that part of the productions of it.

從長遠來看，我認為我們將繼續——隨著我們工廠的自動化，進一步自動化，我認為將會有越來越多的汽車業務進入。我認為汽車方面的遊戲名稱並不在傳統上或現有產品。但是新的應用程序或新的芯片正在問世。首先，這將是我們將獲得的新業務。其次，這些是 IDM 將外包的業務。而當這些對可靠性要求更高的汽車芯片時，我認為客戶會選擇像我們這樣有能力、新技術和質量的一級供應商來保證這部分產品的生產。

We have a question from Mr. Rick Hsu of Daiwa Securities.

我們有一個來自大和證券的 Rick Hsu 先生的問題。

Okay. Right. So I guess the first question is still the housekeeping for Joseph. What's your capacity utilization rates across the packaging, testing and bumping for Q1 and also for the coming quarter?

好的。正確的。所以我想第一個問題仍然是約瑟夫的家務。您在第一季度以及下一季度的封裝、測試和凸塊方面的產能利用率是多少？

I think bumping is full. And as a whole, in terms of packaging, it's 80% to 85% and will continue to be so in the second quarter. Test is same, above 80%. It will continue to be 80% above in second quarter as well.

我認為顛簸已滿。整體而言，在包裝方面，它是 80% 到 85%，並且在第二季度將繼續如此。測試是一樣的，80%以上。第二季度也將繼續保持80%以上的水平。

Okay. And another question is about your full year guidance for the year 2022. I remember 1 quarter ago, you guys talked about the global semi ex memory growth was about 5% to 10% this year. And ASE was going to double that growth. Is this asset position still held?

好的。另一個問題是關於你們對 2022 年的全年指導。我記得 1 個季度前，你們談到今年全球半前內存增長約為 5% 到 10%。 ASE 將使增長翻倍。是否仍持有該資產頭寸？

Absolutely. I think the -- we're still seeing 2x logic semi growth for the year. So if we're looking at 5% to 10% growth, that means 10% to 20% growth for us, if not higher. Because I think in this more uncertain environment, I think the market share expansion will be more likely for us.

絕對地。我認為 - 我們今年仍然看到 2 倍的邏輯半增長。因此，如果我們看到 5% 到 10% 的增長，這對我們來說意味著 10% 到 20% 的增長，如果不是更高的話。因為我認為在這個更加不確定的環境下，我認為我們的市場份額擴大的可能性更大。

We have a question from Mr. Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs.

我們有一個來自高盛的 Bruce Lu 先生的問題。

Okay. I mean let me follow up with Rick's question. I mean TSMC just revised up the 5 years semi ex memory growth from 4% to high single digit for the next 5 years. So does that imply that ASE will also grow double than semi ex growth, which is 8% for the next 5 years as well?

好的。我的意思是讓我跟進 Rick 的問題。我的意思是台積電剛剛將未來 5 年的 5 年半前存儲器增長率從 4% 上調至高個位數。那麼這是否意味著 ASE 也將增長兩倍於半前的增長，即未來 5 年也將增長 8%？

Well, certainly, yes, I guess the short answer is.

嗯，當然，是的，我想簡短的回答是。

All right. I'm very happy to hear that answer, okay? The second question I want to ask is that Joseph just mentioned that even with all the uncertainty, the gross margin for ATM business will still grow -- expand for 2022.

好的。我很高興聽到這個答案，好嗎？我想問的第二個問題是，約瑟夫剛剛提到，即使存在所有不確定性，ATM 業務的毛利率仍將增長——到 2022 年擴大。

Can I ask what's your assumption for the currency for this year? And what's your like-to-like basis? You have other incremental costs from that countermeasure for the COVID, increase, you have increasing material cost, what is your assumption for that? I mean the bottom line I'm asking is what's the like-to-like basis in terms of the margin expansion for 2022?

請問您對今年的貨幣的假設是什麼？你喜歡的基礎是什麼？你有來自 COVID 對策的其他增量成本，增加，你有增加的材料成本，你對此的假設是什麼？我的意思是，我要問的底線是，就 2022 年的利潤率擴張而言，類似基礎是什麼？

Well, I think we will certainly be above 28% for -- in terms of ATM gross profit margin. Of course, the currency helps. But to what degree, it depends on the movement of the currency. So we're, right now, we're just using the existing exchange rate as our basic assumption.

好吧，我認為就 ATM 毛利率而言，我們肯定會超過 28%。當然，貨幣有幫助。但到什麼程度，這取決於貨幣的走勢。因此，我們現在只是使用現有匯率作為我們的基本假設。

The other one, it will be a favorable currency of course, the margin should be higher than what I just mentioned. But as I said, there's a lot more logistics-related costs that we need to bear because of the COVID situation, also the geopolitical kind of events that are happening today. That maybe has a lot of impact on the logistics, on the material supply, part supply, on the health monitoring and health protection type of investments that we need to make. So I think the overall -- and also the -- in terms of energy cost, that will also have an impact. So we are, at this point, being a bit conservative, although we're very confident that we'll continue to see margin expansion. But at this point, we're looking at -- we're setting our goal at a lower than -- lower level than we would like to have because if we put all these different...

另一個，當然是優惠貨幣，保證金應該比我剛才說的要高。但正如我所說，由於 COVID 情況以及今天正在發生的地緣政治事件，我們需要承擔更多與物流相關的成本。這可能會對物流、材料供應、零件供應、健康監測和我們需要進行的健康保護類型的投資產生很大影響。所以我認為整體 - 以及 - 在能源成本方面，這也會產生影響。因此，在這一點上，我們有點保守，儘管我們非常有信心我們將繼續看到利潤率擴張。但在這一點上，我們正在考慮 - 我們將目標設定在低於 - 低於我們想要的水平，因為如果我們把所有這些不同的......

Let me make it clear. I mean you have all the dynamic cost pressures. So do you believe that your position is stronger now when you see the inflated cost either from like all the countermeasure or raw material cost, you're able to pass it to your customer, which is the main reason why you maintain the profitability target or you've got that big enough buffer, which regardless the potential raw material hike, you can also swallow it. Which one will be?

讓我說清楚。我的意思是你有所有的動態成本壓力。那麼，當您從所有對策或原材料成本中看到虛增的成本時，您是否認為您現在的地位更加強大，您能夠將其傳遞給您的客戶，這是您維持盈利目標的主要原因或你有足夠大的緩衝區，不管潛在的原材料上漲，你也可以吞下它。會是哪一個？

Well, I think both. I think in terms of our scale, in terms of our leadership, in terms of customers who prefer to go for security capacity and technology. I think that give us a very good protection over our margin and pricing. But at the same time, there's a lot of macro events that will have an impact on the overall how you run business. It's not necessarily on the -- to pricing of materials or parts, but also a lot of the logistic and all around the costs that we need to bear. That includes labor as well. So there's a lot of uncertainties here. So it's very difficult to quantify how much of the impact on these macro events we have on the cost side.

嗯，我認為兩者兼而有之。我認為就我們的規模而言，就我們的領導地位而言，就更喜歡尋求安全能力和技術的客戶而言。我認為這為我們的利潤和定價提供了很好的保護。但與此同時，有很多宏觀事件會對您的整體業務運營方式產生影響。這不一定取決於材料或零件的定價，還取決於我們需要承擔的大量物流和所有成本。這也包括勞動力。所以這裡有很多不確定性。因此，很難量化我們在成本方面對這些宏觀事件的影響有多大。

But judging from our own operation situation, I think we are still confident that we will have margin expansion, maybe not necessarily to the level that we would like to have. But then we need to start somewhere, right? And so we're setting that this quarter, we will be closing in on 28. And for the whole year, we say we want to be above that level.

但從我們自己的經營情況來看，我認為我們仍然有信心擴大利潤率，也許不一定達到我們想要的水平。但是我們需要從某個地方開始，對吧？所以我們設定這個季度，我們將在 28 日結束。全年，我們說我們希望超過這個水平。

Understand. Just double check that the gross margin sensitivity for the ATM alone to the currency, what is that?

理解。只需仔細檢查 ATM 單獨對貨幣的毛利率敏感性，那是什麼？

I'm sorry?

對不起？

The currency sensitivity for the ATM margin because you have the negative...

ATM 保證金的貨幣敏感性，因為您有負...

1% is about 40 basis points. 1% of movement will have a 40-basis-point impact.

1% 約為 40 個基點。 1% 的運動將產生 40 個基點的影響。

(Operator Instructions) We have an online question from [Laura Chen]. I'm going to read her question.

（操作員說明）我們有一個來自 [Laura Chen] 的在線問題。我要讀她的問題。

Can you elaborate more on your automotive business? What's the revenue contribution and growth in 2021 and outlook for this year? Do you see any potential weakness in auto business due to current China lockdown and demand uncertainties in Europe?

您能否詳細介紹一下您的汽車業務？ 2021年的收入貢獻和增長以及今年的前景如何？由於當前中國的封鎖和歐洲需求的不確定性，您是否認為汽車業務有任何潛在的疲軟？

Also on advanced packaging, what kind of application you are seeing strongest growth?

同樣在先進封裝方面，您看到哪種應用增長最為強勁？

In terms of advanced packaging, I think we're both -- we're seeing flip chip as well as SiP both showing pretty strong momentum. And I think in terms of overall packaging -- advanced packaging, including flip chip and SiP, definitely have the highest growth rate for the year.

在先進封裝方面，我認為我們都是——我們看到倒裝芯片和 SiP 都顯示出相當強勁的勢頭。而且我認為在整體封裝方面——包括倒裝芯片和 SiP 在內的先進封裝肯定是今年增長率最高的。

In terms of automotive, I think the, as I mentioned earlier on, we are targeting to reach about $1 billion revenue or 7% -- over 7% of our overall ATM business for the year. That is posting a very strong growth from last year as well. And we do expect this strong momentum to continue in the foreseeable future given that, as I mentioned, I think the new name of game is not really on the legacy or the existing products in terms of getting that part of the business. It's really the new application or new chips that are coming on-stream to creating a new business for us.

在汽車方面，我認為，正如我之前提到的，我們的目標是達到約 10 億美元的收入或 7%——超過我們今年整體 ATM 業務的 7%。與去年相比，這也實現了非常強勁的增長。我們確實預計這種強勁勢頭將在可預見的未來繼續下去，因為正如我所提到的，我認為遊戲的新名稱並沒有真正基於獲得這部分業務的傳統或現有產品。真正為我們創造新業務的是新應用程序或新芯片。

And also, these new business roughly are mostly being outsourced by the IDM. We used to do it on the automotive parts themselves. So putting these 2 together really creates a very good business potential for us. Plus when as I said, the -- in terms of automotive parts, the durability or the reliability is the most important consideration when we -- when customers go out for a supplier.

而且，這些新業務大致是由 IDM 外包的。我們過去常常在汽車零件本身上做這件事。因此，將這兩者放在一起確實為我們創造了非常好的商業潛力。另外，正如我所說，就汽車零部件而言，當客戶尋找供應商時，耐用性或可靠性是我們最重要的考慮因素。

And with the quality or the technology that we have or the level of automation that we have in our factory, I think we are the most preferred supplier for this type of new chips that are coming on-stream in terms of automotive. So we do expect a very strong momentum going forward.

憑藉我們擁有的質量或技術或我們工廠的自動化水平，我認為我們是此類新芯片的首選供應商，這些新芯片將在汽車方面投入使用。因此，我們確實預計未來會有非常強勁的勢頭。

Next question is from Mr. Gokul Hariharan.

下一個問題來自 Gokul Hariharan 先生。

I had one follow-up, which is -- I think previously, you had said that you're expecting ATM sequential momentum to continue through the course of the year. Every quarter will be growing sequentially. Is that still your expectation right now given some of these changes in the demand?

我有一個後續行動，那就是 - 我認為之前，您曾說過您預計 ATM 連續勢頭將持續到今年。每個季度都將按順序增長。考慮到需求的一些變化，這仍然是您現在的期望嗎？

Yes. From the forecast that we're getting, customer remains fairly stable and very strong. So we do expect -- we continue to expect that we will have sequential growth in our business and also on the margin.

是的。從我們得到的預測來看，客戶仍然相當穩定且非常強大。所以我們確實期望 - 我們繼續期望我們的業務和利潤率都會連續增長。

Understood. And just to elaborate on the question from Bruce. Are you -- I mean in Q2 looks like you have some cost pressures coming through. Are you able to dynamically pass these on to your customers in Q2 itself? Or are there some delays in terms of some of these cost parts? I think over the last 18 to 24 months, we have definitely seen a fair bit of cost pass-throughs and price increases given the customer -- given the high demand and supply tightness. But are we still seeing those happen or kind of not that much anymore in terms of room to increase price?

明白了。只是為了詳細說明布魯斯的問題。你是 - 我的意思是在第二季度看起來你有一些成本壓力。您能否在第二季度將這些動態傳遞給您的客戶？或者這些成本部分是否存在一些延遲？我認為在過去的 18 到 24 個月裡，考慮到高需求和供應緊張，我們肯定看到了相當多的成本轉嫁和價格上漲。但是，在提價空間方面，我們是否仍然看到這些情況發生或不再那麼大了？

Well, I think we continue to see very friendly pricing environment. And if you compare it to our peers, I think we have the most secure position in that front in terms of protecting our margin as well as our pricing. In terms of the -- because of the macro events that are happening, that may have some impact on the overall cost structure -- cost environment, some of it you can pass it on, some of it you cannot. It depends on the different nature of that cost increases or whatever. So yes, I think in a longer-term sense, we do have the best production in our pricing structure. It's a very, very dynamic situation now. I think we will not hesitate to pass these cost hikes to our customers if we can. But at the same time, we do have the customer relationship to consider. And these relationships are long-term relationships. So you don't want to be seen as a very, very opportunistic supplier, which will have a longer-term damage on your overall customer relationship. I think that's -- there's a fine line that how we manage this cost situation and also how to manage our relationship with our customers.

好吧，我認為我們繼續看到非常友好的定價環境。如果您將其與我們的同行進行比較，我認為在保護我們的利潤和定價方面，我們在這方面擁有最安全的地位。就 - 由於正在發生的宏觀事件，這可能會對整體成本結構產生一些影響 - 成本環境，其中一些你可以傳遞，有些你不能傳遞。這取決於成本增加的不同性質或其他。所以是的，我認為從長遠來看，我們的定價結構確實擁有最好的產品。這是一個非常非常動態的情況。如果可以的話，我認為我們會毫不猶豫地將這些成本上漲轉嫁給我們的客戶。但與此同時，我們確實需要考慮客戶關係。而這些關係是長期的關係。因此，您不希望被視為一個非常非常投機取巧的供應商，這將對您的整體客戶關係造成長期損害。我認為這是 - 我們如何管理這種成本情況以及如何管理我們與客戶的關係是一條很好的路線。

Next question is from Mr. Frank Lee of HSBC.

下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Frank Lee 先生。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. I just wanted to ask, I guess, a question about the advanced packaging, the flip chip. The major demand drivers, are there any that you can highlight to besides what we're seeing on 5G handset? Is that still the major driver?

好的。我只是想問一個關於先進封裝、倒裝芯片的問題。主要的需求驅動因素，除了我們在 5G 手機上看到的，您還有什麼可以強調的嗎？這仍然是主要驅動力嗎？

Actually, we're seeing handset as well as automotive, it's going into flip chip as well. And networking, HPC, these are all major users of our flip chip.

實際上，我們看到手機和汽車，它也進入倒裝芯片。而網絡、HPC，這些都是我們倒裝芯片的主要用戶。

Okay. Okay. Great. And then also the -- if I look at the breakdown for your EMS, the consumer did drop a bit, and you said it's seasonality. But I guess if we look at the first quarter of 2021, it seemed to be a much higher consumer mix than the first quarter this year. So I'm just trying to get a sense of how much of a seasonality there was in terms of the difference in terms of the weakness?

好的。好的。偉大的。然後 - 如果我查看您的 EMS 的細分，消費者確實下降了一點，您說這是季節性的。但我想如果我們看看 2021 年第一季度，它的消費者組合似乎比今年第一季度要高得多。所以我只是想了解在弱點方面的差異有多大的季節性？

Well, I think the part of the reason is that the other areas, all these other sectors this year has a stronger momentum than last year. So that kind of dilute the communication part of it a little bit. In fact, even in terms of consumer -- I'm sorry, you were talking about consumer?

那麼，我認為部分原因是其他領域，所有這些其他行業今年的勢頭都比去年強。所以那種淡化了它的交流部分。事實上，即使是在消費者方面——對不起，你說的是消費者？

Yes.

是的。

So the consumer part of it did get a little bit diluted by the other sector's growth.

因此，它的消費者部分確實被其他部門的增長所稀釋。

Okay. So you're seeing just better growth in other EMS sectors.

好的。因此，您會看到其他 EMS 領域的增長更好。

Right. Actually consumer this year is performing actually better than what we were expecting because of the -- some shift in our market share.

正確的。實際上，由於我們的市場份額發生了一些變化，今年消費者的表現實際上比我們預期的要好。

We have another question from Mr. Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse again.

我們再次向瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams 先生提出另一個問題。

Yes. I want to ask on one other piece of market share. After selling the China footprint, your exposure in factory is actually lower IC ATM. Is there -- because of disruption with competitors having more capacity in China, is that just too short in transitory? Or is there a potential to pick up a bit of market share or take on some allocation if there's technically more disruption in some of the China footprint.

是的。我想問另一塊市場份額。賣掉中國足跡後，您在工廠的曝光率實際上是較低的 IC ATM。是否存在——由於競爭對手在中國擁有更多產能，這是否只是暫時的太短了？或者，如果在技術上對中國的某些業務造成更多干擾，是否有可能獲得一些市場份額或進行一些分配。

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get your question. Can you repeat that again?

對不起，我沒完全明白你的問題。你能再重複一遍嗎？

Yes. If you're seeing any benefit or transfer of orders? I mean you mentioned customers in times of uncertainty. So if you're gaining any market share either near term or could be a midterm help with a bit less footprint now in China, like if they continue this hard zero COVID policy?

是的。如果您看到任何好處或訂單轉移？我的意思是你在不確定的時候提到了客戶。因此，如果您在短期內獲得任何市場份額，或者現在可以在中國以更少的足跡獲得中期幫助，例如他們是否繼續實施這種硬性零 COVID 政策？

I think from -- although I don't think it's published already. But from our market intelligence, we do see weaker performances in terms of our China peers in the quarter. I think the lockdown or the overall geopolitical situation is somehow -- I think the China peers are taking -- it does have some impact on the China peers. So in that sense, we are seeing some of the business moving toward us out of China.

我想從——雖然我不認為它已經出版了。但從我們的市場情報來看，我們確實看到本季度中國同行的表現較弱。我認為封鎖或整體地緣政治局勢在某種程度上——我認為中國同行正在接受——它確實對中國同行產生了一些影響。所以從這個意義上說，我們看到一些業務正在從中國向我們轉移。

And when you mentioned geopolitical, is that the international customers? Just trying to keep overseas source for export.

當你提到地緣政治時，是國際客戶嗎？只是想保留海外貨源以供出口。

I think both. I think the internationals are -- they rather come to us and moving in a big way to China. That's first. And then also because of the overall situation or the lockdown situation in China, the Chinese customers are also going through some difficulties in giving out their orders.

我認為兩者兼而有之。我認為國際球員是——他們寧願來到我們這裡，大步走向中國。這是第一個。再者也是因為整體形勢或中國的封鎖情況，中國客戶在下訂單時也遇到了一些困難。

Okay. Great. And for the mature business, most of the emphasis is on advanced. For wirebonding, is it the assumption you still stay at a full level or that's an area you get a bit of underutilization? And are you still at the point you still need to add a moderate amount of bonders this year?

好的。偉大的。而對於成熟的業務，大部分強調的是先進性。對於引線鍵合，是假設您仍然保持完整水平還是您得到一點未充分利用的區域？你今年還需要添加適量的粘合劑嗎？

Well, as a whole, I think our wirebond is still being maintained at a very high loading level. But I think in the China operation, where we still have our Suzhou factory. Because of the pandemic situation, it did have some impact on the wirebonding utilization. But that's a very small percentage to our overall...

嗯，總的來說，我認為我們的引線鍵合仍然保持在非常高的負載水平。但我認為在中國業務中，我們仍然有我們的蘇州工廠。由於大流行的情況，它確實對引線鍵合的利用率產生了一些影響。但這對我們的整體來說只是很小的百分比......

Okay. And the last question I had just on we're seeing the fabless, I mean, they're having a higher target inventory level, and it's been building up a number of them. Do you see that as an overhang? Or is it your view it's more wafer bank, like not necessarily packaged ship inventory? Or I guess do you see any overhang from the build up of inventory if that slows or reverses?

好的。我剛剛提到的最後一個問題是，我們看到了無晶圓廠，我的意思是，他們的目標庫存水平更高，而且它們的數量正在增加。你認為這是懸垂嗎？還是您認為它更像是晶圓庫，例如不一定是打包的出貨庫存？或者我想如果庫存增長放緩或逆轉，您是否看到任何過剩？

Well, I think during this uncertain time, I think it's natural that the inventory -- this inventory will increase. I think we'll have -- I think it's a normal phenomenon that we're seeing inventory level being higher than before. In terms of our own business, we are seeing wafer banks holding up as the customers are -- they want to secure their capacity and in terms of some of the advanced packaging, because the substrates -- it's a gating factor here. It's a bottleneck. So the -- we can only do so much to serve -- to try to serve all the demand that we're getting now.

好吧，我認為在這個不確定的時期，我認為庫存很自然——這個庫存會增加。我認為我們會 - 我認為我們看到庫存水平比以前更高是一種正常現象。就我們自己的業務而言，我們看到晶圓庫與客戶一樣 - 他們希望確保他們的產能和一些先進的封裝，因為基板 - 這是這裡的一個門控因素。這是一個瓶頸。所以——我們只能做這麼多來服務——試圖滿足我們現在得到的所有需求。

Okay. And if your -- it sounds like your view is substrate is still a multiyear issue or any change in that looking at midterm to resolve that?

好的。如果你的 - 聽起來你的觀點是基板仍然是一個多年的問題，或者在中期尋找解決這個問題的任何變化？

The substrate situation, I don't think it's going to be solved any time soon. I think it's going to take some -- quite a bit of time I think 2, 3 years before we start seeing things easing up.

基板情況，我認為不會很快得到解決。我認為這需要一些時間——我認為需要 2 到 3 年的時間才能開始看到情況有所緩和。

We have no more questions on the call. (Operator Instructions) We have another question from Randy.

我們在電話中沒有更多問題。 （操作員說明）我們還有一個來自蘭迪的問題。

Sorry, I didn't. I'm okay.

對不起，我沒有。我很好。

Okay. Thank you very much, and to summarize, we came up with a very strong first quarter, things looking -- continue to look very healthy for us throughout the year. We'll continue to have sequential growth in both revenue and margin. We are facing some challenges in the short term, but we're managing well at this point. So thank you very much. I'll see you next quarter.

好的。非常感謝，總而言之，我們提出了一個非常強勁的第一季度，事情看起來 - 全年對我們來說看起來非常健康。我們將繼續在收入和利潤率方面保持連續增長。我們在短期內面臨一些挑戰，但我們目前管理得很好。所以非常感謝。下個季度見。