日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2021 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello. I am Kenneth Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our Second Quarter 2021 Earnings Release. Thank you for attending our earnings presentation today. Please refer to our safe harbor notice on Page 2. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please disconnect at this time.

你好。我是 ASE Technology Holdings 投資者關係主管 Kenneth Hsiang。歡迎來到我們的 2021 年第二季度收益發布。感謝您參加我們今天的收益報告會。請參閱我們在第 2 頁上的安全港通知。所有參與者都同意通過參與本次活動來廣播他們的聲音和問題。如果參與者不同意，請在此時斷開連接。

I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially.

我想提醒大家，下面的演示文稿可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述存在高度風險，我們的實際結果可能存在重大差異。

For the purposes of this presentation, our dollar figures are generally stated in new Taiwan dollars, unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan-based company, our financials are presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP.

就本報告而言，除非另有說明，否則我們的美元數字通常以新台幣表示。作為一家台灣公司，我們的財務按照台灣國際財務報告準則呈報。使用台灣 IFRS 呈現的結果可能與使用其他會計準則的結果存在重大差異，包括我們的子公司使用中國公認會計準則呈現的結果。

I'm joined today by Dr. Tien Wu, our COO; and Joseph Tung, our CFO. For today's call, Dr. Tien Wu will first give a midyear update. I will then be going over our financial results. Joseph and Tien will then be available to answer questions during the Q&A section.

今天，我們的首席運營官 Tien Wu 博士加入了我的行列；和我們的首席財務官 Joseph Tung。對於今天的電話會議，Tien Wu 博士將首先提供年中更新。然後，我將介紹我們的財務業績。 Joseph 和 Tien 將在問答環節回答問題。

I would like to now hand the floor over to Dr. Tien Wu.

我現在想把發言權交給吳天博士。

Thank you, Ken. Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining our conference call.

謝謝你，肯。大家好。感謝您參加我們的電話會議。

2021 has been an exciting year for all of us. I wish everyone is safe and well. For today's conference call, I would like to give you a brief report on 2 items.

2021 年對我們所有人來說都是激動人心的一年。我希望每個人都平安無事。對於今天的電話會議，我想就兩個項目向大家做一個簡短的報告。

First, I would like to give you a business update, including the second quarter and first half achievement, then the third quarter and the second half outlook, which will touch on business sentiment towards 2022. Second, business outlook, short term and long term. In the past weeks, there has been reports from several key customers and key partners with some conflicting signals causing some speculation about the current state of business and the landscape. I would like to give you ASE's perspective so you have another angle in solving the puzzle.

首先，我想給你一個業務更新，包括第二季度和上半年的業績，然後是第三季度和下半年的展望，這將涉及到 2022 年的商業情緒。第二，業務展望，短期和長期.在過去的幾周里，一些主要客戶和主要合作夥伴報告了一些相互矛盾的信號，導致人們對當前的業務狀況和前景進行了一些猜測。我想給你 ASE 的觀點，這樣你就有另一個角度來解決這個難題。

To begin with, I would like to give you our business update. Our second quarter '21 and the first half '21 revenue and margin are both on track. Second quarter '21 ATM revenue grew 8% quarter-over-quarter in U.S. dollar terms. First half '21 ATM revenue grew 20% year-over-year. If you exclude the EAR-affected revenue, it will be 48% year-over-year.

首先，我想向您介紹我們的業務更新。我們 21 年第二季度和 21 年上半年的收入和利潤率都在正軌上。 21 年第二季度 ATM 收入按美元計算環比增長 8%。 21 年上半年 ATM 收入同比增長 20%。如果排除受 EAR 影響的收入，則同比增長 48%。

First half '21 test revenue recovered ahead of schedule. First half '21 revenue grew 54% year-over-year if we exclude the EAR-affected business. So starting from third quarter, we will see assembly and test business both grow.

'21 上半年測試收入提前恢復。如果我們排除受 EAR 影響的業務，21 年上半年的收入同比增長 54%。所以從第三季度開始，我們將看到組裝和測試業務雙雙增長。

Second quarter '21 HoldCo revenue grew 7% quarter-over-quarter. First half '21 HoldCo revenue grew 28% year-over-year. First half '21 HoldCo operating margin improved 2.7 percentage points year-over-year.

21 年第二季度 HoldCo 收入環比增長 7%。 21 年上半年 HoldCo 收入同比增長 28%。上半年 '21 HoldCo 營業利潤率同比提高 2.7 個百分點。

Let me talk about the second half '21. We expect third quarter and fourth quarter quarter-to-quarter revenue and margin improvement, as we have previously indicated. We're seeing very strong ATM demand than our previous target. Our next -- our last guidance, we estimated semiconductor will grow 10%, and we will do better than twice of that. Right now, our sentiment is better than our previous guidance. The momentum will last into 2022.

讓我談談21年下半年。正如我們之前所指出的，我們預計第三季度和第四季度的季度收入和利潤率將有所改善。我們看到的 ATM 需求比我們之前的目標非常強勁。我們的下一個 - 我們的上一個指導，我們估計半導體將增長 10%，我們將做得好於兩倍。目前，我們的情緒好於我們之前的指導。這種勢頭將持續到2022年。

First half '21 ATM gross margin at full year target of 25%. In other words, we have achieved our full year target in the first half. Therefore, we do expect further gross margin expansion in second half, Q3 and Q4. HoldCo 2021 operating margin target should exceed or at a high-end target of 2.5% to 3%, as we previously guided.

21 年上半年 ATM 毛利率達到 25% 的全年目標。換句話說，我們已經實現了上半年的全年目標。因此，我們確實預計下半年、第三季度和第四季度的毛利率將進一步擴大。正如我們之前的指導，HoldCo 2021 年營業利潤率目標應超過或達到 2.5% 至 3% 的高端目標。

Let me turn to the business outlook. I will first talk about the short term. Demands indicating a strong 2022 with another better-than-seasonal first quarter. As you know, first quarter of 2021 has been stronger than all of our expectations. We're looking forward to another strong Q1 in 2022. Many of the customer are extending the long-term service agreement beyond 2022 into 2023.

讓我談談商業前景。我將首先談談短期。需求表明 2022 年強勁，第一季度又好於季節性。如您所知，2021 年第一季度的表現超出了我們的所有預期。我們期待 2022 年又一個強勁的第一季度。許多客戶正在將長期服務協議從 2022 年延長到 2023 年。

Let me comment on the expansion which has been -- many people ask about it. The capacity expansion needs to consider holistic and balanced supply continuity across the complete material, equipment and process ecosystem. Our estimate, the earliest the balance of demand and supply will be sometime in 2023. In other words, in 2022, we still need to be very smart and be very efficient in managing the bottlenecks.

讓我評論一下已經出現的擴展——很多人都在問這個問題。產能擴張需要考慮整個材料、設備和工藝生態系統的整體和平衡供應連續性。我們估計，供需平衡最早會在2023年的某個時候。也就是說，到2022年，我們仍然需要非常聰明，非常高效地管理瓶頸。

Next, people ask about a double booking and inventory control, which may exist. However, that effect should be localized and temporal with the overall demand profile with very little impact to the overall business momentum, at least from ASE's OSAT perspective.

接下來，人們詢問可能存在的雙重預訂和庫存控制。但是，至少從 ASE 的 OSAT 角度來看，這種影響應該是局部的和暫時的，對整體業務勢頭的影響很小。

Next page, I would like to comment on the business outlook longer term. What I'm trying to do here is to share with you our ASE's perspective and maybe ASE's OSAT perspective on longer-term outlook. On this page, I have a diagram of a pyramid. What I'm trying to do is to illustrate a conceptual concept about the current state of semiconductor business. As you know, semiconductor business is mainly driven by innovation. If you imagine innovation is driven by technology, which is at the tip of the pyramid, as the innovation becomes more pervasive, the pyramid becomes taller. In order to support a bigger and taller pyramid, the length, the width, the height all need to increase proportionately.

下一頁，我想對長期的業務前景發表評論。我在這裡嘗試與您分享我們的 ASE 觀點，也許還有 ASE 對長期前景的 OSAT 觀點。在這個頁面上，我有一個金字塔圖。我試圖做的是說明一個關於半導體業務當前狀態的概念概念。如您所知，半導體業務主要由創新驅動。如果你想像創新是由技術驅動的，它位於金字塔的頂端，隨著創新變得越來越普遍，金字塔變得越來越高。為了支撐一個更大更高的金字塔，長度、寬度、高度都需要按比例增加。

This is not the exact mathematical description of our ecosystem. However, conceptually, you can see that. What we're seeing today is we have 2 driving forces, so let me comment on each one of them.

這不是我們生態系統的精確數學描述。但是，從概念上講，您可以看到這一點。我們今天看到的是我們有兩種驅動力，所以讓我對它們中的每一種進行評論。

The first one is what the industry already been preparing for the longest time, including 5G, AI, EV, IoT, smart manufacturing and all, et cetera. Now for this type of innovation to be pervasive in scale, you need to develop a new infrastructure, which will incur, instigate a new demand for system and, therefore, demand for all semiconductor devices. However, in the last 2 years, unexpectedly, we had the COVID-19 impact. What the COVID-19 did is actually similar to this. It's not the new innovation. However, it put a step function or a sudden increase of demand on the existing systems without asking for any new infrastructure.

第一個是行業準備時間最長的，包括5G、人工智能、電動汽車、物聯網、智能製造等等。現在，要讓這種類型的創新在規模上普遍存在，您需要開發一種新的基礎設施，這將引發、激發對系統的新需求，從而引發對所有半導體設備的需求。然而，在過去的 2 年中，我們出人意料地受到了 COVID-19 的影響。 COVID-19 所做的實際上與此類似。這不是新的創新。但是，它在現有系統上設置了階躍功能或突然增加了需求，而無需任何新的基礎設施。

The industry is very used to building a capacity at a slower pace. While we're developing infrastructure, we're also cranking up new systems. While the COVID-19 effect is leveraged on the existing infrastructure, they only demand for a large quantity of new systems. So the industry is caught off-guard, and this is what we're talking about now.

該行業非常習慣於以較慢的速度建設產能。在我們開發基礎設施的同時，我們也在啟動新系統。儘管在現有基礎設施上利用了 COVID-19 效應，但它們只需要大量新系統。所以這個行業措手不及，這就是我們現在所說的。

The COVID-19 impact can be 2 years, can be 5 years. We actually do not know how long that will last. What we do know is we are in short. Therefore, the industry reacts accordingly by building up wafer capacity. We're also building up the assembly and test capacity. The whole supply chains are building all of the capacity accordingly.

COVID-19 的影響可以是 2 年，也可以是 5 年。我們實際上不知道這會持續多久。我們所知道的是我們很短。因此，業界通過建立晶圓產能做出相應反應。我們還在建立組裝和測試能力。整個供應鏈正在相應地建設所有能力。

The comment I would like to make here is this is a great incentive for the industry to start developing a manufacturing infrastructure because even if the COVID-19 impact dissipates in the next 2 to 5 years, the new wave of innovation, which will be a much, much longer-lasting impact to the industry, signified by 5G, AI, EV, IoT, smart manufacturing, we are seeing a huge demand on the IoT devices, for example, on the electric vehicle, on the autonomous driving. All of this new paradigm will require new infrastructure and a brand-new system.

我想在這裡發表的評論是，這對行業開始開發製造基礎設施是一個很大的激勵，因為即使 COVID-19 的影響在未來 2 到 5 年內消散，新的創新浪潮也將成為以 5G、人工智能、電動汽車、物聯網、智能製造為標誌，對行業產生了更持久的影響，我們看到對物聯網設備的巨大需求，例如電動汽車、自動駕駛。所有這些新範式都需要新的基礎設施和全新的系統。

So our perspective is semiconductor is very healthy. Short term, we have a great incentive to build our capacity to accommodate the system requirement by the COVID-19, while we are building up the needed capacity to accommodate the future increase of demand driven by the new paradigm shift.

所以我們的觀點是半導體是非常健康的。短期而言，我們有很大的動力來建設我們的能力以適應 COVID-19 的系統要求，同時我們正在建設所需的能力來適應新範式轉變驅動的未來需求增長。

So going to the next page. Let me talk about the other 3 tailwinds from our perspective. The first is consolidation. What the supply chain constraint has done to the industry is it's forcing everyone, our customer, our customer's customer, to accept more standard, flexible and secure supply alternatives. This is great for open-platform service provider like foundry and OSAT. In other words, what used to be proprietary now are being forced to accept the open-platform alternative. Long term, this is a thesis why OSAT and foundry will be gaining more share and consolidation over proprietary suppliers.

於是進入下一頁。讓我從我們的角度談談其他三個順風。首先是整合。供應鏈約束對行業的影響是它迫使每個人，我們的客戶，我們客戶的客戶，接受更標準、更靈活和更安全的供應選擇。這對於像代工廠和 OSAT 這樣的開放平台服務提供商來說非常有用。換句話說，過去是專有的，現在正被迫接受開放平台的替代方案。從長遠來看，這就是為什麼 OSAT 和代工廠將比專有供應商獲得更多份額和整合的論點。

Let me talk about the third tailwind, Taiwan cluster. Taiwan cluster efficiency, economies of scale and supply chain flexibility, that has none. What we're seeing for the last few years is Taiwan cluster has been investing CapEx in a very, very heavy way, including ASE. As a matter of fact, ASE SPIL merger and synergy is another example of the Taiwan cluster efficiency. So with the efficiency in hand, with additional CapEx invested, with more customers choosing Taiwan sector as their preferred choices, this is forming a positive or a virtuous cycle.

再說第三順風，台灣集群。台灣集群的效率、規模經濟和供應鏈靈活性，都沒有。我們在過去幾年看到的是台灣集群一直在以非常非常沉重的方式投資資本支出，包括 ASE。事實上，ASE SPIL的合併和協同是台灣集群效率的另一個例子。所以在手的效率，加上額外的資本支出，更多的客戶選擇台灣部門作為他們的首選，這正在形成一個正向或良性循環。

Let me talk about the last tailwind, which is ASE HoldCo. ASE holding company today has demonstrated a clear leadership in scale, market share, margin, efficiency. We have a very clear view about how the new wave 5G, autonomous driving, smart manufacturing will demand heterogenous integration, including silicon on silicon and silicon with nonsilicon in sensors. We have a very clear view about the future AI, Big Data-driven, high-quality and tracking manufacturing, which is done by the automation. We are today a de facto choice and indispensable manufacturing partner for the semicap ecosystem.

讓我談談最後的順風車，那就是 ASE HoldCo。今天的日月光控股公司在規模、市場份額、利潤和效率方面都表現出明顯的領先地位。我們非常清楚新浪潮 5G、自動駕駛、智能製造將如何要求異構集成，包括矽上矽和傳感器中的非矽矽。我們對未來的人工智能、大數據驅動、高質量和跟踪製造有非常清晰的認識，這是由自動化完成的。今天，我們是半導體生態系統事實上的選擇和不可或缺的製造合作夥伴。

With that, I thank you for listening. I will turn the floor back to Ken. Thank you.

有了這個，我感謝你的聆聽。我會把地板轉回給肯。謝謝你。

Thank you, Dr. Wu. I will now go more in depth into our financial results. First off, I would like to clean up an order of business that needs a bit of explanation for the sake of reporting transparency.

謝謝吳醫生。我現在將更深入地探討我們的財務業績。首先，為了報告透明度，我想清理需要一些解釋的業務訂單。

As you all know, our subsidiary, USI, completed its acquisition of Asteelflash in 2020. Given the complexities of the purchase price allocation process, or PPA, IFRS generally allows companies up to a year to complete this valuation process. After the valuation is completed, a retroactive adjustment is usually made.

眾所周知，我們的子公司 USI 在 2020 年完成了對 Asteelflash 的收購。鑑於購買價格分配過程或 PPA 的複雜性，IFRS 通常允許公司長達一年的時間來完成此估值過程。估值完成後，通常會進行追溯調整。

Asteelflash's purchase price allocation was completed during the second quarter. Accordingly, we have retroactively adjusted our balance sheet by TWD 0.4 billion, representing 0.1% of our total assets as of the first quarter. On our P&L, the purchase price allocation results in incremental expenses booked into the first quarter, totaling TWD 88.5 million or $0.02 per share. First quarter consolidated holding company reported gross margin has been reduced by 0.1 percentage points, while operating margin has been reduced by 0.2 percentage points.

Asteelflash 的購買價格分配在第二季度完成。因此，我們追溯調整了資產負債表 4 億新台幣，佔第一季度總資產的 0.1%。在我們的損益表中，購買價格分配導致第一季度計入增量費用，總計 8850 萬新台幣或每股 0.02 美元。第一季度合併控股公司報告毛利率下降了 0.1 個百分點，而營業利潤率下降了 0.2 個百分點。

For the second and future quarters, PPA impact to net income will be approximately TWD 37 million per quarter. Impacts to future gross and operating margin will, of course, depend on future revenues, but in the current period, such impact is considered negligible at less than 0.1%. This amount will be added to our quarterly PPA adjustment.

對於第二季度和未來季度，PPA 對淨收入的影響將約為每季度 3700 萬新台幣。當然，對未來毛利率和營業利潤率的影響將取決於未來的收入，但在當前期間，這種影響被認為可以忽略不計，不到 0.1%。此金額將添加到我們的季度 PPA 調整中。

Please turn to Page 7, where you will find our second quarter consolidated results. Intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses have been eliminated during consolidation. For the second quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of $2.30 and basic EPS of $2.40. Consolidated net revenue increased by 6% quarter-over-quarter and by 18% year-over-year. This sequential increase was primarily driven by our ATM business. We had a gross profit of $24.8 billion with a gross margin of 19.5%. Our gross margin improved by 1.2 percentage points sequentially and 2 percentage points year-over-year. Both margin improvements are principally the result of higher ATM business mix, offset in part by NT dollar appreciation. NT dollar appreciation had a negative 0.3 percentage point impact to sequential gross margin and a negative 2.1 percentage point impact to year-over-year gross margin.

請轉到第 7 頁，您將在其中找到我們第二季度的綜合結果。我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易已在合併期間消除。對於第二季度，我們記錄了 2.30 美元的完全攤薄每股收益和 2.40 美元的基本每股收益。綜合淨收入環比增長 6%，同比增長 18%。這一環比增長主要是由我們的 ATM 業務推動的。我們的毛利潤為 248 億美元，毛利率為 19.5%。我們的毛利率環比增長 1.2 個百分點，同比增長 2 個百分點。這兩項利潤率的提高主要是由於更高的 ATM 業務組合，部分被新台幣升值所抵消。新台幣升值對環比毛利率造成 0.3 個百分點的負面影響，對同比毛利率造成 2.1 個百分點的負面影響。

Our operating expenses increased by $0.6 billion to $11.6 billion sequentially. Our operating expense percentage sequentially stayed flat at 9.2% and declined 0.5 percentage points year-over-year. For the year, we are now expecting to see an improvement from rather than targeting to maintain at last year's 9% level. Operating margin increased 1.3 percentage points sequentially and 2.6 percentage points year-over-year to 10.4%.

我們的運營費用環比增加了 6 億美元，達到 116 億美元。我們的營業費用百分比連續保持在 9.2%，同比下降 0.5 個百分點。對於這一年，我們現在預計會從去年的 9% 水平上有所改善，而不是維持在去年的水平。營業利潤率環比增長 1.3 個百分點，同比增長 2.6 個百分點至 10.4%。

During the quarter, we had a net nonoperating gain of $0.2 billion. This amount primarily consists of gains related to our foreign exchange hedging activities, investments and asset sales, offset in part by net interest expense of $0.6 billion.

本季度，我們的非經營性淨收益為 2 億美元。該金額主要包括與我們的外匯對沖活動、投資和資產出售相關的收益，部分被 6 億美元的淨利息支出所抵消。

Tax expense for the quarter was $2.6 billion. The effective tax rate for the second quarter was 20%. For the third quarter, we expect to record our annual undistributed earnings tax. For modeling purposes, please use an effective tax rate of 21% for the third quarter to account for such tax impact. Net income for the quarter was $10.3 billion, representing an increase of $1.9 billion sequentially and an improvement of $3.4 billion year-over-year.

本季度的稅收支出為 26 億美元。第二季度的有效稅率為20%。對於第三季度，我們預計將記錄我們的年度未分配收益稅。出於建模目的，請使用第三季度 21% 的有效稅率來解釋此類稅收影響。本季度淨收入為 103 億美元，環比增長 19 億美元，同比增長 34 億美元。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Consolidated gross profit, excluding PPA expenses, would be $25.7 billion with a 20.3% gross margin. Operating profit would be $14.4 billion with an operating margin of 11.3%. Net profit would be $11.5 billion with a net margin of 9.1%. Basic EPS, excluding PPA expenses, would be $2.67.

在頁面底部，我們提供了關鍵的損益表項目，但不包括與 PPA 相關的費用。不包括 PPA 費用的合併毛利潤為 257 億美元，毛利率為 20.3%。營業利潤為 144 億美元，營業利潤率為 11.3%。淨利潤為 115 億美元，淨利潤率為 9.1%。不包括 PPA 費用的基本每股收益為 2.67 美元。

On Page 8 is our ATM P&L. It is worth noting here that the ATM revenue reported here contains revenue eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses. As Dr. Wu indicated, our ATM business looks very healthy for this year and heading into 2022.

第 8 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。值得注意的是，此處報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層面消除的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。正如吳博士所說，我們的 ATM 業務在今年和 2022 年看起來非常健康。

For the second quarter of 2021, revenues for our ATM business were $79 billion, up $5.2 billion from the previous quarter and up $9.5 billion from the same period last year. This represents a 7% increase sequentially and a 14% increase year-over-year. Our ATM revenues came in ahead of our expectations. On a U.S. dollar basis, our ATM revenues grew by 8% sequentially.

2021 年第二季度，我們 ATM 業務的收入為 790 億美元，比上一季度增加 52 億美元，比去年同期增加 95 億美元。這意味著環比增長 7%，同比增長 14%。我們的 ATM 收入超出了我們的預期。按美元計算，我們的 ATM 收入環比增長 8%。

Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 25.6%, up 1.2 percentage points sequentially and 3.9 percentage points year-over-year. Our sequential gross margin improvement was primarily due to higher loading. The year-over-year gross margin improvement was primarily the result of higher loading, improved efficiency, product mix and a friendlier ASP environment.

ATM業務的毛利率為25.6%，環比上升1.2個百分點，同比上升3.9個百分點。我們的連續毛利率改善主要是由於更高的負載。毛利率同比增長主要是由於更高的負載、更高的效率、產品組合和更友好的 ASP 環境。

ATM gross margin improvement was accomplished despite NT dollar appreciation having a negative 0.5 percentage point impact quarter-over-quarter and a 3 percentage point impact year-over-year. We expect to be able to deliver quarter-on-quarter improvement in ATM gross margins in the last half of the year even with ATM gross margin for the first half of the year already reaching our 25% full year target.

儘管新台幣升值對季度環比影響為負 0.5 個百分點，同比影響為 3 個百分點，但 ATM 毛利率仍有所改善。即使上半年的 ATM 毛利率已經達到我們 25% 的全年目標，我們預計今年下半年的 ATM 毛利率將實現季度環比改善。

During the second quarter, operating expenses were $8.4 billion, up $0.3 billion sequentially and up $0.5 billion year-over-year. The sequential and annual operating expense increase was primarily driven by increased employee bonus accruals, which are based on a profit-sharing model. Our operating expense percentage was 10.6%, down 0.4 percentage points sequentially and down 0.7 percentage points year-over-year. Operating margin was 15%, improving 1.6 percentage points sequentially and 4.6 percentage points year-over-year. The strengthening NT dollar had a negative 0.5 percentage point impact quarter-over-quarter and 3 percentage point impact year-over-year to our operating margins. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 26.7%, and operating profit margin would be 16.4%.

第二季度，運營費用為 84 億美元，環比增長 3 億美元，同比增長 5 億美元。連續和年度運營費用增加主要是由於員工獎金應計增加，這是基於利潤分享模式。營業費用率為10.6%，環比下降0.4個百分點，同比下降0.7個百分點。營業利潤率為 15%，環比提高 1.6 個百分點，同比提高 4.6 個百分點。新台幣走強對我們的營業利潤率造成了 0.5 個百分點的負面影響，環比和 3 個百分點的同比影響。剔除與 PPA 相關的折舊和攤銷影響，ATM 毛利率為 26.7%，營業利潤率為 16.4%。

On Page 9, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. When we see our ATM gross margins here almost linearizing and hitting historical highs, I think it's fair to mention that we do not believe that our business is immune to future cyclicality inherent to electronics, but we do believe that having the scale synergies and the benefits of the 4 tailwinds, as mentioned by Dr. Wu, we will be in position to achieve margins with gradually higher peaks and shallower troughs.

在第 9 頁，您會看到我們的 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。當我們看到我們的 ATM 毛利率幾乎線性化並達到歷史高位時，我認為可以公平地說，我們不相信我們的業務不受電子產品固有的未來週期性的影響，但我們確實相信擁有規模協同效應和收益正如吳博士所提到的，在 4 種順風中，我們將能夠實現逐漸升高的峰值和更淺的低谷的邊緣。

On Page 10 is our ATM revenue by market segment. You can see here a decline in our communications market segment with share picked up by our automotive, consumer and other products. Meanwhile, our Computing segment has held roughly steady since 2020. Again, from what we can see here, our near-term performance has not been driven by communications-related devices. And more importantly, with such a decline in our Communications segment, it would seem that speculated widespread overproduction of communications-related components to be somewhat less likely. Our near-term performance has been driven primarily by growing consumer and general semiconductor expansion. This supports Dr. Wu's earlier statement that new technology and products create an expansion of more basic supporting devices.

第 10 頁是我們按細分市場劃分的 ATM 收入。您可以在這裡看到我們的通信市場份額下降，而我們的汽車、消費品和其他產品的份額有所增加。與此同時，我們的計算部門自 2020 年以來基本保持穩定。同樣，從我們在這裡可以看到，我們的近期表現並沒有受到通信相關設備的推動。更重要的是，隨著我們的通信部門出現如此下滑，似乎推測通信相關組件的廣泛生產過剩的可能性有所降低。我們的近期業績主要是由不斷增長的消費和一般半導體擴張推動的。這支持了吳博士早先的說法，即新技術和產品創造了更多基礎支持設備的擴展。

On Page 11, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. There's generally too much noise in trying to understand each quarter's individual movement here. However, when the chart is taken as a whole, it tells a more complete story. You can see here the gradual improvement and underlying strength of our wirebond-related business. Meanwhile, services for advanced products have seen a gradual decline, some of which has to do with the impact of the U.S. EAR. We do, however, believe that our advanced services will start to rebound in the back half of this year.

在第 11 頁，您會發現我們按服務類型劃分的 ATM 收入。在這裡試圖了解每個季度的個人運動通常會產生太多噪音。然而，當圖表作為一個整體時，它講述了一個更完整的故事。您可以在這裡看到我們線鍵相關業務的逐步改善和潛在實力。同時，高級產品的服務逐漸下降，其中一些與美國EAR的影響有關。然而，我們相信我們的高級服務將在今年下半年開始反彈。

On Page 12, you can see the results of our EMS business and a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The information we provide in regards to our EMS business may differ materially from the information directly provided by our subsidiary as they report independently using Chinese GAAP.

在第 12 頁，您可以看到我們 EMS 業務的結果以及按應用劃分的 EMS 收入的圖形表示。我們提供的有關我們的 EMS 業務的信息可能與我們的子公司直接提供的信息存在重大差異，因為它們使用中國公認會計原則獨立報告。

As mentioned earlier, the results of the first quarter have been retroactively adjusted for PPA costs. Our second quarter revenue usually represents the end of our seasonal trough. However, what is more unusual this year is that many of our customers are experiencing the impact of component shortages in the second quarter. This is the main reason why we saw our EMS revenues fall slightly short of our initial expectations. However, we do believe that the majority of this revenue shortfall gets pushed out into the third quarter.

如前所述，第一季度的業績已針對 PPA 成本進行了追溯調整。我們第二季度的收入通常代表我們季節性低谷的結束。然而，今年更不尋常的是，我們的許多客戶在第二季度都受到了零部件短缺的影響。這是我們看到我們的 EMS 收入略低於我們最初預期的主要原因。但是，我們確實認為，大部分收入缺口都會被推到第三季度。

The second quarter expenses for our EMS business tends to be characterized by training, investment and preparation, readying our factory lines for the third and fourth quarters when things get up to full mass production speed. As is oftentimes the case, it's the quarter that requires spending of a more spontaneous nature for upcoming product ramps. This is especially true this year when we have 2 new factory locations ramping up during COVID spread. As such, we have incurred extra operating costs related to R&D, logistics and factory start-up costs in the second quarter to set the stage for second half growth.

我們的 EMS 業務第二季度的費用往往以培訓、投資和準備為特徵，當事情達到全面量產速度時，我們的工廠線為第三和第四季度做好準備。通常情況下，該季度需要為即將到來的產品坡道花費更自發的性質。今年尤其如此，因為在 COVID 傳播期間我們有 2 個新工廠正在擴建。因此，我們在第二季度產生了與研發、物流和工廠啟動成本相關的額外運營成本，為下半年的增長奠定了基礎。

During the second quarter, EMS revenues increased by 3% sequentially and 24% year-over-year. Our EMS gross profit was $4.5 billion, increasing $0.5 billion sequentially and $0.8 billion year-over-year. The higher sequential and year-over-year EMS gross profit was the result of product mix.

第二季度，EMS 收入環比增長 3%，同比增長 24%。我們的 EMS 毛利潤為 45 億美元，環比增長 5 億美元，同比增長 8 億美元。較高的環比和同比 EMS 毛利潤是產品組合的結果。

Gross profit margin for our EMS business unit came in at 9.1%, which is an improvement of 0.7 percentage points sequentially and a decline of 0.3 percentage points year-over-year. The sequential improvement is primarily the result of cost differences from differing product mix. The annual decline in gross margin is primarily due to higher operating overhead.

我們的 EMS 業務部門的毛利率為 9.1%，環比提高 0.7 個百分點，同比下降 0.3 個百分點。連續改進主要是不同產品組合的成本差異的結果。毛利率的年度下降主要是由於較高的運營費用。

Our EMS business unit's second quarter operating expenses were $3.2 billion, increasing $0.4 billion sequentially while increasing $0.7 billion year-over-year. Sequential operating expenses were primarily up as a result of increased R&D and factory start-up costs. Annual operating expenses are up primarily as a result of a larger operating base. Our operating expense percentage increased 0.6 percentage points sequentially to 6.5% while increasing 0.2 percentage points year-over-year. The sequential operating expense percentage increase is primarily driven by higher R&D and factory start-up costs. We expect our operating expense percentage to temper down during the back half of the year as our mass production revenues ramp up during our typically seasonal up cycle.

我們的 EMS 業務部門第二季度運營費用為 32 億美元，環比增長 4 億美元，同比增長 7 億美元。連續運營費用增加主要是由於研發和工廠啟動成本增加。年度運營費用增加主要是由於更大的運營基礎。我們的營業費用百分比環比增長 0.6 個百分點至 6.5%，同時同比增長 0.2 個百分點。連續運營費用百分比增長主要是由較高的研發和工廠啟動成本推動的。我們預計，隨著我們的大規模生產收入在我們典型的季節性上升週期中增加，我們的運營費用百分比將在下半年回落。

Our EMS business has had a more challenging start this year as a result of worsening COVID operating conditions and component shortages. Quite simply, the underlying conditions have changed, and it's now more difficult and expensive to run than expected. We do not see the component shortages or extra costs subsiding in the near term. Therefore, our target of a 4% operating margin for our EMS business has become more of a challenging one.

由於 COVID 運營條件惡化和零部件短缺，我們的 EMS 業務今年的開局更具挑戰性。很簡單，基本條件發生了變化，現在運行起來比預期的更加困難和昂貴。我們認為短期內零部件短缺或額外成本不會減少。因此，我們 EMS 業務 4% 的營業利潤率目標變得更具挑戰性。

On the bottom half of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The second quarter change here with consumer products declining 5% is seasonally driven, while the increase in the Industrial segment is more brought about by industrial products picking up after a year of COVID softness.

在頁面的下半部分，您會發現我們的 EMS 收入（按應用程序）的圖形表示。消費產品下降 5% 的第二季度變化是季節性驅動的，而工業領域的增長更多是由工業產品在經歷了一年的 COVID 疲軟後回升帶來的。

On Page 13, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. The only things we would like to add here are that our total unused credit lines amounted to $276.4 billion, and our net debt-to-equity ratio dropped to 60%.

在第 13 頁，您將找到我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。我們唯一想在這裡補充的是，我們的未使用信貸額度總額為 2764 億美元，我們的淨債務權益比率降至 60%。

On Page 14, you will find our equipment capital expenditures. Amounts on this slide are denoted in U.S. dollars. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the second quarter totaled $611 million, of which $450 million were used in packaging, $116 million in testing, $39 million in EMS operations and $6 million in interconnect materials and others. As of the end of the second quarter, we are still running in a capacity-constrained environment, and at this time, we continue to see our capital expenditures up from 10% to 15% from last year, although more on the higher end of this range. However, this year's capital expenditure timing may be more volatile than previous years. The timing of equipment may defer or accelerate.

在第 14 頁，您將找到我們的設備資本支出。這張幻燈片上的金額以美元表示。第二季度機械和設備資本支出總計 6.11 億美元，其中 4.5 億美元用於封裝，1.16 億美元用於測試，3900 萬美元用於 EMS 運營，600 萬美元用於互連材料和其他。截至第二季度末，我們仍在產能受限的環境中運行，此時，我們的資本支出繼續從去年的 10% 上升到 15%，儘管更多的是在較高端這個範圍。然而，今年的資本支出時機可能比往年更不穩定。設備的時間安排可能會推遲或加快。

With that, we would like to provide our third quarter business outlook as follows. In U.S. dollar terms, ATM third quarter 2021 volume is to increase 12% with ASP holding stable versus second quarter 2021 levels. ATM third quarter 2021 gross margin sequential improvement should be similar with the sequential improvement in the second quarter of 2021.

有了這個，我們想提供我們的第三季度業務展望如下。以美元計算，ATM 2021 年第三季度的交易量將增長 12%，而 ASP 與 2021 年第二季度的水平相比保持穩定。 ATM 2021 年第三季度的毛利率環比改善應該與 2021 年第二季度的環比改善相似。

For our EMS business, in U.S. dollar terms, EMS third quarter 2021 business level should be slightly higher than the average level of the third and fourth quarter in 2020. EMS third quarter 2021 operating margin should be around our targeted 2021 full year operating margin.

對於我們的 EMS 業務，以美元計算，EMS 2021 年第三季度的業務水平應略高於 2020 年第三季度和第四季度的平均水平。EMS 2021 年第三季度的營業利潤率應在我們的目標 2021 年全年營業利潤率附近。

With that, I'd like to open the floor for questions. We're doing it slightly differently this fiscal round. We have people scattered throughout different rooms and such. We -- when we get the question, I will repeat the question, and then I would direct it over to Joseph and Tien. So question, please.

有了這個，我想請大家提問。本財年我們的做法略有不同。我們的人分散在不同的房間等等。我們——當我們收到問題時，我會重複這個問題，然後我會將其轉給 Joseph 和 Tien。所以，請提問。

Our first question is from Mr. Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

我們的第一個問題來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan 先生。

Yes. My first question is on what Dr. Wu mentioned in terms of demand-supply balance coming in 2023. Could you talk a little bit about what you expect pricing trends, margin trends to be next year? It looks like you're still going to be in a similar situation as 2021. So how should we think about this?

是的。我的第一個問題是吳博士提到的 2023 年供需平衡。你能談談你對明年的定價趨勢和利潤率趨勢的預期嗎？看起來您仍將處於與 2021 年類似的情況。那麼我們應該如何考慮呢？

Secondly, could you also talk a little bit about how book-to-bill is looking as we head into early 2022? You talked about Q1 being better than seasonal, and you did allude to double booking, which is a very big topic for investor focus. How do you estimate double booking within your order book? And how does that affect your book-to-bill when you think about next year demand-supply? That's my first question.

其次，您能否也談談我們進入 2022 年初時帳單到帳單的情況？你談到第一季度比季節性好，你確實提到了雙重預訂，這是投資者關注的一個非常大的話題。您如何估計訂單簿中的重複預訂？當您考慮明年的供需時，這將如何影響您的訂單到賬單？這是我的第一個問題。

Okay, Gokul. I have here that you were asking about pricing context for next year and also a outlook for 2022 and then somehow circle back over to concepts of double booking. Generally, we're trying to keep the number of questions for 2 questions per go-around. So let's go with the first 2, the pricing and the outlook for 2022.

好的，高庫爾。我在這裡，您詢問了明年的定價背景以及 2022 年的前景，然後以某種方式回到重複預訂的概念。通常，我們會盡量保持每次復飛 2 個問題的問題數量。所以讓我們來看看前兩個，定價和 2022 年的展望。

All right. So our first priority is to make customer delivery fulfillment, and we have been very efficiently handling all of the customer requirement throughout 2020 and 2021. We will continue to do that.

好的。因此，我們的首要任務是實現客戶交付，並且在 2020 年和 2021 年期間，我們一直非常有效地處理所有客戶需求。我們將繼續這樣做。

Now occasionally, we'll get into a situation where we need to make pricing adjustment, either the higher material cost or the expedited fee. I believe for the second half of 2021 as well as the whole year of 2022, we will continue the current trend. It is very difficult to give you a quantitative estimate for what the pricing is because this is very dynamic. Our third priority is to make expedite delivery. However, the pricing environment remains to be very friendly.

現在偶爾，我們會遇到需要進行定價調整的情況，要么是更高的材料成本，要么是加急費。我相信2021年下半年乃至2022年全年，我們都會延續目前的趨勢。很難對定價進行定量估計，因為這是非常動態的。我們的第三個優先事項是加快交貨。但是，定價環境仍然非常友好。

The second question about the overbooking. We have seen some customers making adjustment. We have also seen some equipment delivery were making a timing adjustment. However, that may not be completed due to the business slowdown. I mentioned about the supply chain continuity. Sometimes, there's a BGA substrate shortage. Sometimes there's a different shortage. It makes no point to have overcapacity on one equipment or process while, at the same time, you do not have the materials.

關於超額預訂的第二個問題。我們已經看到一些客戶進行了調整。我們也看到一些設備的交貨時間正在調整。但是，由於業務放緩，這可能無法完成。我提到了供應鏈的連續性。有時，BGA 基板短缺。有時會有不同的短缺。一種設備或工藝的產能過剩是沒有意義的，而與此同時，您卻沒有材料。

So the comment that I made, in 2023, sometimes, we will see more of a holistic and balanced capacity supply-demand balance but definitely will not be in 2022. And hopefully, in 2023, we will have an easier time to execute the customer delivery. Thank you.

所以我發表的評論是，在 2023 年，有時我們會看到更多整體和平衡的產能供需平衡，但絕對不會在 2022 年出現。希望在 2023 年，我們將有更輕鬆的時間來執行客戶送貨。謝謝你。

Got it. Just one clarification. So on the guidance for this year, I think it sounded like you are looking at 20-plus percent growth for IC ATM on a USD basis. Just wanted to clarify if I got that right.

知道了。只是一個澄清。因此，在今年的指導方針中，我認為您認為 IC ATM 的美元增長率將超過 20%。只是想澄清一下我是否做對了。

That's correct. Well, I do want to mention that this is on top of the recovery of our affected business by the U.S. EAR. So as Dr. Wu mentioned in his presentation, if we exclude that part of the business from the equation, our actual first half overall ATM growth was 48%. And also, in terms of tests, not only that we are ahead of schedule and making a full recovery in the first half rather than the later part of the year, also, the -- again, excluding the EAR-affected business, the actual growth is about 54%.

這是正確的。好吧，我確實想提一下，這是在我們受到美國 EAR 影響的業務復甦之上。因此，正如吳博士在他的演講中提到的，如果我們從等式中排除這部分業務，我們實際上半年的整體 ATM 增長率為 48%。而且，在測試方面，不僅我們提前並在上半年而不是下半年全面恢復，而且 - 再次，不包括受 EAR 影響的業務，實際增長率約為 54%。

So we're seeing a very, very strong growth momentum in terms of our ATM business at this point, and it seems that it's got -- also leading to 2022.

因此，就我們的 ATM 業務而言，目前我們看到了非常非常強勁的增長勢頭，而且似乎已經實現了——也將導致 2022 年。

Next question is from Mr. Randy Abrams of Credit Suisse.

下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams 先生。

Okay. Yes. Okay. I came on the phone line. Hopefully, you can hear me. Yes, the first question, back to the comment about the tightness until 2023. How do you see -- I'm just curious on the supply side, we've seen pretty heavy industry bookings for equipment. And lead times are stretched out, but I assume those equipment would get delivered in the next year.

好的。是的。好的。我是通過電話線來的。希望你能聽到我的聲音。是的，第一個問題，回到關於 2023 年之前供應緊張的評論。你怎麼看——我只是對供應方面感到好奇，我們已經看到了重工業設備的大量預訂。交貨時間延長了，但我認為這些設備將在明年交付。

So I'm curious, one, on the supply side, how you're viewing it, if you think that bottleneck on the back-end equipment gets resolved moving through next year. And then from the demand side, are you -- how are you factoring parts of the environment? There's a fear about some of the COVID-related, consumer PC, home electronics coming off a high base. So I'm just curious what you're reflecting for next year if those factors ease the supplier or what gives the comfort of tightness continuing into 2023.

所以我很好奇，一個，在供應方面，你如何看待它，如果你認為後端設備的瓶頸在明年得到解決。然後從需求方面來看，您是否 - 您如何考慮環境的某些部分？人們擔心一些與 COVID 相關的消費類個人電腦、家用電子產品會出現高基數。因此，我只是好奇，如果這些因素讓供應商鬆了口氣，或者是什麼讓緊張的舒適度持續到 2023 年，你對明年的反應是什麼。

So Randy, you're looking for a question regarding the situation or the -- relating to back-end equipment tightness and also looking for an impact on next year's overall market demand and whether we see changes in overall market demand structure.

因此，Randy，您正在尋找有關情況或與後端設備緊張有關的問題，並尋找對明年整體市場需求的影響以及我們是否看到整體市場需求結構的變化。

Okay.

好的。

That's right. Yes. Just to give the confidence for tightness all the way to '23.

這是正確的。是的。只是為了讓人們對 23 年的緊張感充滿信心。

Well, let me talk about the machine delivery. I think the machine delivery lead time right now is as bad as our last conference call. It has not improved. The lead time is stretching, and I believe the lead time will start to improve not this year. Sometime in 2022, we might see the lead time becomes better.

好吧，讓我談談機器交付。我認為現在的機器交付提前期與我們上次電話會議一樣糟糕。它沒有改善。交貨時間正在延長，我相信交貨時間不會在今年開始改善。 2022 年的某個時候，我們可能會看到交貨時間變得更好。

But once the lead time gets better, you still need to have a balanced capacity expansion, right? I talk about the material process and everything surrounding that. So I believe the reasonable capacity buildup will be some time throughout between 6 months ago, all the way this year as well as next year, and I believe in 2023, we will probably see more of a balanced profile, okay?

但是一旦提前期變好，你還是需要平衡擴容，對吧？我談論物質過程和圍繞它的一切。所以我相信合理的產能建設將在 6 個月前、今年和明年之間持續一段時間，我相信在 2023 年，我們可能會看到更多平衡的情況，好嗎？

The second comment is a little bit more difficult to answer, the demand. Now we have seen some adjustment. For example, some sector of the customers are making some of the pushout in delivery. However, because of the over demand on the overall situation, it is very easy for ASE on the assembly and test side to switch the necessary equipment into the other application, which is clearly very, very strong demand. Our wafer bank, whips, still very high.

第二條評論有點難以回答，需求。現在我們看到了一些調整。例如，客戶的某些部門正在交付一些推送。但是，由於對整體情況的過度需求，組裝和測試方面的ASE很容易將必要的設備切換到其他應用程序中，這顯然是非常非常強烈的需求。我們的晶圓庫，鞭子，仍然很高。

So right now, we're not terribly concerned about some of the inventory correction due to whatever reasons, but I think each end customer will have their unique reasons why they are making some local adjustment. Right now, actually, the local adjustment is kind of welcome because our delivery situation has been in this tight spot, which is really not healthy mentally for everyone.

所以現在，無論出於何種原因，我們並不十分擔心一些庫存調整，但我認為每個最終客戶都會有他們進行一些本地調整的獨特原因。現在，實際上，局部調整是值得歡迎的，因為我們的交貨情況一直處於這種緊張狀態，這對每個人來說都非常不健康。

So I think the demand will continue to be strong second half. It will be strong for the 2022. I talk about the pyramid. I struggled for a long time how do we really conceptually articulate what is going on right now. COVID-19, without asking for any new infrastructure, they just have a sudden increase of new systems, and therefore, all devices are short. This is the problem we're addressing. When people are talking about the COVID-19 impact will dissipate, we don't see that. Of course, we do understand, sooner or later, this will disappear. However, you have the following multiple ways of AI, IoT, smart manufacturing that we're aggressively building up the infrastructure, which will, in turn, require a lot of new system, which demands semiconductor devices at all levels.

所以我認為下半年需求將繼續強勁。 2022 年會很強勁。我說的是金字塔。我掙扎了很長時間，我們如何真正從概念上表達現在正在發生的事情。 COVID-19，不要求任何新的基礎設施，他們只是突然增加了新系統，因此，所有設備都很短。這是我們正在解決的問題。當人們談論 COVID-19 的影響會消散時，我們看不到這一點。當然，我們確實明白，這種情況遲早會消失。但是，您有以下多種人工智能、物聯網、智能製造方式，我們正在積極建立基礎設施，這反過來又需要大量新系統，這需要各級半導體設備。

So I think industry will be in short, and this is a comment that the foundry guys are making. I mean the 2021, 2022, 29 new fabs have been deployed. Everybody sees this, but the industry has no incentive to build the manufacturing infrastructure ahead of the curve. This is standard practice. The COVID-19 give you a very good short-term incentive, even though we do not know this impact will be 3 years, 4 years or 2 years. However, we have enough belief and vision that all the capacity will be needed and will be good for the world, and this is what the -- our view is.

所以我認為行業會很短，這是代工們正在發表的評論。我的意思是 2021 年、2022 年，已經部署了 29 家新晶圓廠。每個人都看到了這一點，但該行業沒有動力提前建立製造基礎設施。這是標準做法。 COVID-19 給你一個很好的短期激勵，儘管我們不知道這種影響會是 3 年、4 年還是 2 年。但是，我們有足夠的信念和遠見，認為所有的能力都是必需的，並且對世界有益，這就是我們的觀點。

No. Great. And second question -- okay. Yes. And the second question, and one clarification to the first is the local adjustments, if you think those are all driven by the constraints up and down the chain. Or are you seeing any pockets of application weakness? That's kind of just a clarification.

不，太好了。第二個問題——好的。是的。第二個問題，對第一個問題的一個澄清是局部調整，如果你認為這些都是由上下游約束驅動的。或者您是否看到任何應用程序弱點？這只是一種澄清。

And then my second question, just on the guidance. I know you mentioned the first quarter above seasonal. For fourth quarter, you're coming off above seasonal third quarter. Do you expect to grow in the IC ATM in the fourth quarter?

然後我的第二個問題，只是關於指導。我知道你提到了季節性以上的第一季度。對於第四季度，您將超過季節性的第三季度。您預計第四季度 IC ATM 會增長嗎？

And then the other part on pricing being stable. I know you talked about the expedites and unfriendly environment. So I'm curious, given we're in the peak season, what's kind of keeping price stable or why you're not seeing a little bit of a sequential improvement on pricing?

然後是價格穩定的另一部分。我知道你談到了加急和不友好的環境。所以我很好奇，鑑於我們正處於旺季，保持價格穩定的方式是什麼，或者為什麼您沒有看到價格的一點點連續改善？

Randy, so you're looking for a fourth quarter -- somewhat of a fourth quarter outlook and also a pricing environment commentary in -- for the rest of the year.

蘭迪，所以您正在尋找今年剩餘時間的第四季度 - 有點像第四季度的前景以及定價環境評論。

Okay. I think the first comment is we're seeing some local adjustment, and I -- we do not know the reason why there are local adjustment. It could be business related or it could be a component shortage related. However, those are very localized and temporal. We're seeing the adjustment down and adjustment up right away. So at this point in time, I think the best comment we can give to you is it does not affect the overall business momentum. At least this is what we can see now.

好的。我認為第一條評論是我們看到了一些局部調整，而我 - 我們不知道為什麼會有局部調整。它可能與業務有關，也可能與組件短缺有關。然而，這些都是非常本地化和暫時的。我們正在看到向下調整和立即向上調整。所以在這個時間點，我認為我們能給你的最好的評論是它不會影響整體業務勢頭。至少這是我們現在可以看到的。

The comment on the Q3 to Q4. Yes, we are expecting Q3 growth. We're expecting Q4 growth just like last year. The comment about Q1 of 2022, of course, I'm hoping to see another record, like Q1 is better than Q4 of the previous year. However, I'm not going to say that right now, but this is what I'm hoping for, and I believe if we have a clear, a good, optimistic Q1 in 2022, that momentum will carry throughout the 2022, and this is our current view. And then we'll deal with 2023 at a later date.

對 Q3 至 Q4 的評論。是的，我們預計第三季度的增長。我們預計第四季度的增長與去年一樣。關於 2022 年 Q1 的評論，當然，我希望看到另一個記錄，比如 Q1 比上一年的 Q4 好。但是，我現在不打算這麼說，但這就是我所希望的，我相信如果我們在 2022 年第一季度有一個清晰、良好、樂觀的第一季度，那麼這種勢頭將貫穿整個 2022 年，而這是我們目前的看法。然後我們將在以後處理 2023 年。

I think on the -- also -- this is Joseph here. I'd say also on the margin side, we will see sequential growth on a quarterly basis for the second half of the year as well as we continue to see volume expansion as well as continuous effort in efficiency improvement, including our automation. That is being aggressively brought online.

我想——還有——這是約瑟夫。我還要說的是，在利潤率方面，我們將看到下半年的季度環比增長，我們將繼續看到銷量擴張以及持續努力提高效率，包括我們的自動化。這正被積極地帶到網上。

And for next year, we're still seeing there's also room for improvement further in terms of margin, and we're seeing a very, very healthy development in our overall financial performance going forward.

對於明年，我們仍然看到利潤率方面還有進一步改善的空間，而且我們看到我們未來的整體財務業績有非常非常健康的發展。

I mean there's one comment. I will not talk about the overall pricing comparison. However, pricing is given by the market. I mean it's not defined by any individual supplier. Under a constant pricing profile, if you make that assumption, then you look at the margin improvement quarter-to-quarter. And we are doing a detailed analysis based on the last 8 quarters, how much efficiency improvement is from synergy, how much efficiency improvement is from the automation. All of this number will add up to the confidence when we set that in 2022 and maybe in the future. Ken Hsiang made a comment. Now we are looking for a more solid baseline going forward. Thank you.

我的意思是有一個評論。我不會談論整體定價比較。但是，定價是由市場決定的。我的意思是它不是由任何單獨的供應商定義的。在不變的定價情況下，如果你做出這樣的假設，那麼你就會看到季度間利潤率的提高。我們正在根據過去 8 個季度做一個詳細的分析，有多少效率提升來自協同，多少效率提升來自自動化。當我們在 2022 年甚至未來設定這個數字時，所有這些數字都會增加信心。 Ken Hsiang 發表了評論。現在我們正在尋找一個更堅實的基線。謝謝你。

Our next question is from Mr. Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Bruce Lu 先生。

Hello. Can you hear me?

你好。你能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Okay. my question is regarding to your long-term contract agreement. As I know that your wirebond business is actually very complicated. You have wirebond. You have different kind of wirebond there you have fleet chip. How does that work for your long-term contract? How much of your capacity is secured by this long-term contract?

好的。我的問題是關於你們的長期合同協議。據我所知，您的引線鍵合業務實際上非常複雜。你有引線鍵合。你有不同種類的引線鍵合，你有艦隊芯片。這對您的長期合同有何影響？這份長期合同保證了您的多少產能？

So your first question relates to the character and the -- our long-term -- of our long-term contracts.

所以你的第一個問題與我們長期合同的性質和我們的長期合同有關。

Yes. Help me to understand.

是的。幫助我理解。

Well, I think the comment I can give it to you is the large majority of customers covered by the service contract. I don't think I can give you anything more specific. I mean a very, very large percentage.

好吧，我認為我可以給你的評論是服務合同涵蓋的絕大多數客戶。我想我不能給你任何更具體的東西。我的意思是一個非常非常大的百分比。

I mean this contract is actually secured most of your capacity or the only for the incremental capacity?

我的意思是這個合同實際上是保證了你的大部分容量還是僅用於增量容量？

For all of the capacity, not incremental. And also, I think the comment that I keep referring to is you have to look at when people secure assembly capacity, whatever that is, there is intrinsic, inherent assumption that assembly capacity will have the needed lead frame, molding compound, substrate and all of the processing materials to go with it. That today is a big assumption.

對於所有容量，而不是增量。而且，我認為我一直提到的評論是，你必須看看人們何時確保組裝能力，無論如何，有一個內在的、固有的假設，即組裝能力將具有所需的引線框架、模塑料、基板和所有的加工材料。今天是一個很大的假設。

So the long-term service contract not only secures the assembly capacity. It also support the customer as well as ASE as well as our supplier partners to secure the needed overall balanced supply continuity beyond 2021 into 2022 and 2023. And this is a part of the overall efficiency and flexibility management I was referring to.

因此，長期服務合同不僅保證了組裝能力。它還支持客戶以及 ASE 以及我們的供應商合作夥伴，以確保從 2021 年到 2022 年和 2023 年所需的整體平衡供應連續性。這是我所指的整體效率和靈活性管理的一部分。

If you're really asking for the real or the effective competitiveness, you have to look beyond the assembly and test per se. You should look at the overall supply from wafer materials, the whole nine yard, and this is what we're seeing. We're seeing the campaign between the open platform service provider versus proprietary. We're seeing the regional competition, and we're seeing the ASE competition against our peer. But if you follow the same analogy, you will be able to understand the number and the meaning behind it. That's what I was referring to.

如果你真的要求真正或有效的競爭力，你必須超越組裝和測試本身。你應該看看晶圓材料的整體供應，整個九碼，這就是我們所看到的。我們看到了開放平台服務提供商與專有平台之間的競爭。我們看到了區域競爭，我們看到了 ASE 與同行的競爭。但是如果你按照同樣的類比，你就能理解它背後的數字和含義。這就是我所指的。

I see because -- do you believe that your competitor also have secured a reasonable long-term contract or is ASE pretty much the supplier who can ensure this kind of long-term contract?

我明白是因為——您是否認為您的競爭對手也獲得了合理的長期合同，或者 ASE 幾乎是可以確保這種長期合同的供應商？

I don't know the answer, but as a good competitor, I have to assume they do.

我不知道答案，但作為一個優秀的競爭對手，我必須假設他們知道。

Or on the other hand, how much of your customers, their demand is fully secured by this long-term contract?

或者另一方面，您有多少客戶，他們的需求完全由這份長期合同保障？

I think the customers, the motivation can be best illustrated by the long-term service agreement as well as all of the future technology development. If you are the de facto choice by the customer, not only you will have the short-term, long-term loading, you will also have all of the future pipelines.

我認為客戶的動機可以通過長期服務協議以及所有未來的技術發展來最好地說明。如果您是客戶事實上的選擇，那麼您不僅將擁有短期、長期的負載，您還將擁有未來的所有管道。

So when we make statements about de facto versus our key customer or whether IC system or automotive, I'm actually referring to the existing loading as well as the future pipeline and everything that I just talk about, all inclusive.

因此，當我們就事實上與我們的主要客戶或 IC 系統還是汽車發表聲明時，我實際上指的是現有負載以及未來管道以及我剛才談論的所有內容，包括所有內容。

I see. Okay. So my next question is for Joseph. I mean for the gross margin for ATM, again, thanks -- congrats for the great result. But I'm a little bit greedy that a lot of the semiconductor companies already posted that historical high gross margin. And the -- when do you expect you exceed your historical high gross margin as a consolidated basis.

我懂了。好的。所以我的下一個問題是針對約瑟夫的。我的意思是 ATM 的毛利率，再次感謝 - 恭喜取得了巨大的成果。但我有點貪心，很多半導體公司已經公佈了歷史最高的毛利率。而且 - 您預計何時會超過歷史最高毛利率作為綜合基礎。

Well, if we count the CapEx situation, we already surpass our historical peak.

好吧，如果我們計算資本支出情況，我們已經超過了歷史峰值。

Well, no. If you use a pro forma basis, if you add SPIL's gross margin in aggregate, not yet.

嗯，不。如果你使用備考基礎，如果你把 SPIL 的毛利率加起來，還沒有。

No. No, that's what I'm saying. Even including SPIL's, on a combined basis, we have already passed the -- if we add the FX fluctuation as well as the PPA that we have to bear, we already passed our historical peaks.

不，不，這就是我要說的。即使包括 SPIL 在內，我們也已經超過了 - 如果我們加上外匯波動以及我們必須承受的 PPA，我們已經超過了歷史峰值。

So how do we -- if you already surpassed that, how do we know that what is the new norm for the gross margin? How do we -- because -- how do we see the value proposition increase and to fully reflect to your gross margin?

那麼我們如何——如果你已經超過了，我們怎麼知道毛利率的新標準是什麼？我們如何——因為——我們如何看待價值主張的增加並充分反映您的毛利率？

In fact, if I'm -- really, I'm even more greedier than you are. I mean on a nominal basis, if I don't count the FX, if I don't count the PPA, I'm still heading to -- reaching the historical peak on an annual basis we have reached back in 2014. Our highest gross margin was about 27%.

事實上，如果我——真的，我比你更貪婪。我的意思是在名義上，如果我不計算外匯，如果我不計算 PPA，我仍然會達到 - 達到我們在 2014 年達到的年度歷史峰值。我們的最高毛利率約為27%。

And on a quarterly basis, I think this -- in the second half, we'll be surpassing that. And I'm pretty confident that next year, on an annualized basis that historical record will be broken.

每季度，我認為 - 在下半年，我們將超越這一點。而且我非常有信心，明年，按年計算，歷史記錄將被打破。

Next question is from Mr. Rick Hsu of Daiwa Securities.

下一個問題來自大和證券的 Rick Hsu 先生。

Can you guys hear me?

你們能聽到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you. Go ahead.

是的，我們可以聽到你的聲音。前進。

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Great. Yes. Just 2 little questions. The first one is the housekeeping question for Joseph. So what's your utilization rate across the board for wirebond, flip chip, testing in Q2 and what's the outlook in Q3?

好的。偉大的。是的。就2個小問題。第一個是約瑟夫的家務問題。那麼您在第二季度的引線鍵合、倒裝芯片、測試的全面利用率是多少？第三季度的前景如何？

In Q2, in terms of assembly, we're about 85%, and for test, it's close to 80%. In the third quarter, I think assembly was -- will be over 85% for assembly and over 80% for tests. As we mentioned, we're running relatively on full capacity now.

在第二季度，在組裝方面，我們大約是 85%，而對於測試，它接近 80%。在第三季度，我認為組裝將超過 85% 用於組裝，超過 80% 用於測試。正如我們所提到的，我們現在正在相對滿負荷運行。

Okay. Great. The second question is about your pricing. When you -- about your friendly pricing. So for Q3, and I presume it's going to be the same trend for Q4 and maybe into next year. And it's pretty much across the board or just more specifically for your wirebonding?

好的。偉大的。第二個問題是關於你的定價。當你——關於你的友好定價。所以對於第三季度，我認為第四季度和明年可能會出現同樣的趨勢。它幾乎是全面的，或者更具體地用於您的引線鍵合？

Rick, you're asking about whether we've raised prices or plan on raising prices across the board or on just wirebonders? Is that...

Rick，你問的是我們是否已經提高了價格或計劃全面提高價格，還是僅僅針對銲線機？就是它...

Yes, that's right. Yes.

是的，這是正確的。是的。

Our utilization will be full for Q3. The -- we're already full in Q2. In Q3 and Q4, we'll start ramping up the SIP product. So the factory will be very busy.

我們的利用率將在第三季度滿載。 - 我們在第二季度已經滿員了。在第三季度和第四季度，我們將開始增加 SIP 產品。所以工廠會很忙。

The pricing adjustment is not a concept. We have to follow the business dynamics based on need and requirement. I am not -- I don't have the privilege, and I will not answer. However, we want to raise price across our product line. However, there is a possibility that we might do so. Sorry.

定價調整不是一個概念。我們必鬚根據需要和要求來跟踪業務動態。我不是——我沒有特權，我不會回答。但是，我們希望提高整個產品線的價格。但是，我們有可能這樣做。對不起。

Our next question is from Mr. Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

我們的下一個問題來自華興資本的吳思豪先生。

I have 2 questions. The first one is that before the merger, the company would give out the substrate self-sufficiency ratio. I'm not sure if you have the number ready for the latest quarter.

我有 2 個問題。一是在合併前，公司會給出基板自給率。我不確定您是否準備好最新季度的電話號碼。

Can you repeat that question one more time?

你能再重複一遍這個問題嗎？

Yes. The substrate self-sufficiency. In the past, you gave out before the merger with SIP. I'm not sure if you have the same percentage on hand, that share of it.

是的。底物自給自足。過去，您在與 SIP 合併之前就放棄了。我不確定你手頭是否有相同的百分比，那份額。

You're looking for our substrate sufficiency percentage?

您在尋找我們的底物充足率嗎？

Right. Exactly. Yes.

正確的。確切地。是的。

Well, it was hovering around 22% to 25%, and it's still around that. I think the current tightness of the materials or substrates in a sense actually give us additional edge over our competitors because of our stronger buying power and also our in-house capability or capacity.

嗯，它徘徊在 22% 到 25% 左右，而且仍然在這個水平附近。我認為目前材料或基材的緊密度實際上使我們比競爭對手更具優勢，因為我們擁有更強的購買力以及我們的內部能力或產能。

That's my second question. Yes, you already answered. Okay. And also the other question, could you provide an update on the wirebonder delivery schedule? Last time, you mentioned that the company is planning to add roughly 3,000, 4,000 wirebonds this year. So just wondered if there would be upside to that number.

這是我的第二個問題。是的，你已經回答了。好的。還有另一個問題，您能否提供有關銲線機交貨時間表的更新？上次，您提到該公司計劃今年增加大約 3,000 到 4,000 個引線鍵合。所以只是想知道這個數字是否有上升空間。

Well, in the second quarter, we added close to 1,500 bonders, 1,482 to be exact. And on test slides, we added 135 testers. I think the delivery is still ongoing, and we're seeing -- we are still maintaining our target for the year, and hopefully, in the second half, we will have a full delivery.

好吧，在第二季度，我們增加了近 1,500 名債券商，準確地說是 1,482 名。在測試幻燈片上，我們添加了 135 名測試人員。我認為交付仍在進行中，我們正在看到——我們仍在維持我們今年的目標，希望在下半年，我們將有一個完整的交付。

Okay. Great. Delivery, I remember last time you mentioned roughly October time frame, right? If we deliver, I mean.

好的。偉大的。交貨，我記得上次你提到大約 10 月的時間框架，對吧？如果我們交付，我的意思是。

Yes. But, as Ken mentioned, these are very dynamic at this point. So that's the target, but we'll see how it goes.

是的。但是，正如肯所說，這些在這一點上是非常動態的。這就是目標，但我們會看看它是如何進行的。

(Operator Instructions) We have a question from Mr. Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）我們有一個來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan 先生的問題。

Could you talk a little bit about how you think about capital spending? It looks like this year is going to be at the high end of the 10% to 15% range or closer to the $2 billion mark or even higher. Do you feel next year also CapEx is going to remain in this high range, given supply is still going to be quite tight and customers are willing to sign up for longer-term agreements? That's my first question.

您能談談您對資本支出的看法嗎？看起來今年將處於 10% 到 15% 範圍的高端，或者接近 20 億美元甚至更高。鑑於供應仍將非常緊張且客戶願意簽署長期協議，您是否認為明年資本支出也會保持在這個高水平？這是我的第一個問題。

So you're looking for an outlook on our capital expenditure plans into 2022.

因此，您正在尋找我們對 2022 年資本支出計劃的展望。

Yes. I just wanted to -- yes.

是的。我只是想——是的。

Okay. Well, for this year, we are still maintaining our previous plan of maybe -- but you're right. I think the actual -- will be at the high end of the range or 15%. And by the way, it's going -- I don't preclude the possibility of raising our CapEx for this year. Again, I think it's a little bit too premature to talk about 2022 CapEx. It really depends on the market -- overall market situation, although we remain confident that next year, there will be additional demand.

好的。嗯，今年，我們仍然維持我們之前的計劃——但你是對的。我認為實際 - 將處於該範圍的高端或 15%。順便說一句，它正在發展——我不排除今年提高資本支出的可能性。同樣，我認為談論 2022 年資本支出還為時過早。這真的取決於市場——整體市場情況，儘管我們仍然相信明年會有額外的需求。

Just -- this is Ken. I just want to give you another angle and the -- for example, yes, we are talking about high-tech tax for ASE and OSAT for 2020 and 2021. But at the same time, it will be very interesting to look at over the IDN CapEx for the back end. I believe you will see a very, very different scenario.

只是——這是肯。我只想給你另一個角度，例如，是的，我們正在談論 2020 年和 2021 年 ASE 和 OSAT 的高科技稅。但與此同時，看看後端的 IDN 資本支出。我相信你會看到一個非常非常不同的場景。

The reason I want to make that statement is now keep in mind, in 2022 and 2023, there will be incoming wafers from all of the new fab that has been started since 2020. So all the new wafer, 8-inch or 12-inch, who will be the back-end service provider for all the wafer if there is a system demand, infrastructure demand. If there's no demand, that's a different scenario. But in case there are demand, if the IDN are investing less for the back end, then the consolidation thesis we guided, the OSAT needs to double down in order to make up the delta.

我要發表這個聲明的原因是現在請記住，在 2022 年和 2023 年，所有自 2020 年開始的新晶圓廠都會有新的晶圓進入。所以所有的新晶圓，8 英寸或 12 英寸，如果有系統需求、基礎設施需求，誰來做所有晶圓的後端服務商。如果沒有需求，那就另當別論了。但如果有需求，如果 IDN 對後端的投資減少，那麼我們指導的整合論點，OSAT 需要加倍下注以彌補增量。

Therefore, in 2022, even though it is a little bit earlier to say, but depending on the business dynamics for 2021 and the early part of 2022, by working with all of the IC and system customer, we will have a much better view about the overall system demand and the back-end demand as well as all of the other substrate difference supply, and that will be a dynamic process, will give you a much, much better number in terms of the CapEx scenario.

因此，在 2022 年，雖然說得早了一點，但根據 2021 年和 2022 年初的業務動態，通過與所有 IC 和系統客戶的合作，我們將對整個系統需求和後端需求以及所有其他基板差異供應，這將是一個動態過程，在資本支出方案方面會給你一個更好的數字。

Understood. Maybe one follow-up on that front. Could you talk a little bit about how you think about returns on that CapEx now that your gross margin is clearly gone up? Like how are these LTAs being structured? And how are you thinking about CapEx in the future? You talked about bulk of a lot of capacity being spoken for in LTAs. So how should we think about returns?

明白了。也許在這方面有一個後續行動。既然您的毛利率明顯上升，您能否談談您如何看待資本支出的回報？比如這些長期協議是如何構建的？您如何看待未來的資本支出？您談到了 LTA 中的大部分容量。那麼我們應該如何看待回報呢？

And just to give some context, I think historically, OSAT has been seen as more cyclical in terms of margins and returns. Is there something that we can talk about that is through the cycle, like where your returns are likely to be higher or much higher given what we are seeing with the pricing dynamics and willingness of customers to commit much more longer-term contracts?

只是為了提供一些背景，我認為從歷史上看，OSAT 在利潤率和回報方面被視為更具週期性。在整個週期中，我們是否可以談論一些事情，例如考慮到我們所看到的定價動態和客戶簽訂更多長期合同的意願，您的回報可能會更高或更高？

Gokul, you're asking about how we evaluate CapEx, especially in the context of this tight semiconductor supply environment, right?

Gokul，您問的是我們如何評估資本支出，尤其是在這種緊張的半導體供應環境下，對吧？

Could give ROIC or ROE, kind of what are the threshold or hurdle rates that you use when you think about CapEx and investment in general?

可以給出 ROIC 或 ROE，當您考慮資本支出和一般投資時，您使用的門檻或障礙率是多少？

Well, I think it's very apparent that the return is getting better as we continue to have margin expansion, although the FX does have some impact, a negative impact on the overall return situation. But as you mentioned, the ROE that we are looking at as the threshold is good by about 20% to 25%.

嗯，我認為很明顯，隨著我們繼續擴大利潤率，回報正在變得更好，儘管外匯確實產生了一些影響，對整體回報情況產生了負面影響。但正如您所提到的，我們將其視為閾值的 ROE 大約在 20% 到 25% 之間。

25% for new investment, right?

25% 用於新投資，對吧？

That's correct.

這是正確的。

Next question is from Mr. Roland Shu of Citigroup.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Roland Shu 先生。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

We can hear you. Go ahead.

我們可以聽到你的聲音。前進。

Okay. Sorry, I dialed in late, so excuse me if my questions were asked. First question from me is TSMC has several plans to build new fab overseas. So are you considering to increase your global presence as well to catch the business opportunity on the newly built wafer fab worldwide? And if we want to do so, how will it impact your CapEx spending plans in the mid- to long term?

好的。抱歉，我遲到了，如果有人問我問題，請見諒。我的第一個問題是台積電有幾個在海外建立新工廠的計劃。那麼，您是否正在考慮擴大您的全球影響力以抓住全球新建晶圓廠的商機？如果我們想這樣做，它將如何影響您的中長期資本支出計劃？

So your question relates to our longer-term thought process in terms of our global footprint expansion.

因此，您的問題與我們在全球足跡擴張方面的長期思考過程有關。

Yes.

是的。

All right. To answer that question is if you look at the ASE footprint, I believe ASE is by far the most diversified manufacturing company in OSAT world. We have factories across the 3 continents and Japan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, as was U.S. and China, of course, Taiwan. So in terms of the global diversification, we are already there. Okay.

好的。要回答這個問題，如果你看看 ASE 的足跡，我相信 ASE 是迄今為止 OSAT 世界中最多元化的製造公司。我們在 3 大洲和日本、韓國、新加坡、馬來西亞設有工廠，美國和中國也有工廠，當然還有台灣。因此，就全球多元化而言，我們已經做到了。好的。

So the next question is, under the geopolitical sensitivity as well as the U.S. incentive as well as China initiative, how do we respond to like TSMC or Samsung or Intel initiative in building up the different capacity in different parts of the world. And I think the short answer of that is the -- it really goes by the business dynamics.

那麼接下來的問題是，在地緣政治敏感性以及美國的激勵以及中國的倡議下，我們如何應對像台積電、三星或英特爾這樣的倡議，在世界不同地區建立不同的能力。我認為簡短的回答是 - 它確實取決於業務動態。

If I want to be a little bit more specific, you will look at the overall semiconductor demand, which is given by the pyramid picture that I gave to everyone, that you dissect the pyramid into 2 portion. You ask which part of the pyramid are cost sensitive, and you would develop your manufacturing in a massive scale to offer the most cost-effective, flexible delivery to that part of the pyramid that are cost sensitive.

如果我想更具體一點，你會看一下整體的半導體需求，這是我給大家的金字塔圖，你把金字塔分成兩部分。您詢問金字塔的哪個部分對成本敏感，您將大規模開發您的製造，以便為金字塔中對成本敏感的部分提供最具成本效益、最靈活的交付。

After that, you will have a little piece or smaller piece, which is national security sensitive, technology sensitive or location sensitive. Then you will look at it, who are the end user, who are the service provider. For those service provider and end user, which portion of the assembly and test can we contribute to add efficiency to the alternative route?

之後，您將有一小塊或更小的一塊，它是國家安全敏感的、技術敏感的或位置敏感的。然後你會看，誰是最終用戶，誰是服務提供者。對於那些服務提供商和最終用戶，我們可以貢獻哪些組裝和測試部分來提高替代路線的效率？

So this process sounds very complicated, but actually, it's very, very simple. So if any of the foundry partner wants to build a fab anywhere in the world, we look at the output. We look at the assembly and test requirement. Then we ask the question, does it have to be ASE? If it does, what will be the volume that is required compared to any other alternative route.

所以這個過程聽起來很複雜，但實際上，非常非常簡單。因此，如果任何代工合作夥伴想要在世界任何地方建造晶圓廠，我們都會查看產量。我們看看組裝和測試要求。然後我們問一個問題，一定是ASE嗎？如果是這樣，與任何其他替代路線相比，所需的體積是多少。

When all fails, we will make the investment accordingly based on the business need. So right now, we already have a globally diversified footprint, but to make adjustment on the footprint by adding different service portfolio will really depend on the business. And by the way, that business requirement as of today is not clear for the assembly and test. It's a very, very long answer to a short question because we have been asked this question by everybody in the world. Thank you.

當一切都失敗時，我們將根據業務需要進行相應的投資。所以現在，我們已經在全球範圍內擁有多元化的足跡，但是通過添加不同的服務組合來調整足跡將真正取決於業務。順便說一句，到目前為止，組裝和測試的業務需求還不清楚。這是對一個簡短問題的非常非常長的回答，因為世界上每個人都向我們提出了這個問題。謝謝你。

Understood. My second question is about your testing business. In the past 2 to 3 years, you have the goal, try to grow your testing business, but I think last year probably was not a good year for your testing because of Huawei's -- have been banned in the supply chain.

明白了。我的第二個問題是關於您的測試業務。在過去的 2 到 3 年中，您有目標，嘗試發展您的測試業務，但我認為去年可能不是您測試的好年份，因為華為 - 已被禁止在供應鏈中。

So how do you look out for your testing business now and going forward? Are you still planning to further grow your testing business in terms of the percentage of the total IC ATM revenue?

那麼，您現在和未來如何看待您的測試業務？您是否仍計劃根據 IC ATM 總收入的百分比進一步發展您的測試業務？

Yes. I think the first half of the year, we were kind of busy in terms of realigning our test capacity to serve the other customers, and we have done so fairly successfully, as I mentioned, where we have fully recovered our test business in the first half of the year ahead of our schedule.

是的。我認為今年上半年，我們有點忙於重新調整我們的測試能力以服務其他客戶，而且我們做得相當成功，正如我所提到的，我們首先完全恢復了我們的測試業務比我們的計劃提前了半年。

And going forward, we will continue to make -- we'll start to bring the test business back to a growth mode. We will be making the necessary investment further to -- to further expand our test business going forward.

展望未來，我們將繼續——我們將開始將測試業務帶回增長模式。我們將進一步進行必要的投資，以進一步擴大我們的測試業務。

Do you have a specific target of the percentage of the revenue from testing?

您是否有特定的測試收入百分比目標？

I think right at the peak, we were around 20% and I think that's the first thing that we need to go back to.

我認為在高峰期，我們大約是 20%，我認為這是我們需要回到的第一件事。

Our next question is from Mr. Randy Abrams of Credit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams 先生。

Okay. Yes. And my follow-up was on the SIP. If you could give an update, the contribution now for IC ATM and the USI, what percent it is. And then could you give an update just how the pipeline is looking for expansion next year, both at your primary customer and also diversification into additional customers.

好的。是的。我的後續行動是在 SIP 上。如果您可以提供更新，IC ATM 和 USI 現在的貢獻是多少。然後，您能否提供有關管道在明年尋求擴展的最新信息，包括您的主要客戶以及其他客戶的多元化。

So you're looking for basically an overview on SIP, its contribution and from our EMS and our ATM entity and also potential view on the pipeline.

因此，您基本上是在尋找關於 SIP、它的貢獻以及來自我們的 EMS 和我們的 ATM 實體的概述，以及對管道的潛在看法。

Yes. That's correct.

是的。這是正確的。

I think in terms of overall SIP business, last year, we had a 50% growth, and so this year, I think the growth rate will start to -- will come down a bit. But overall, I think the momentum is still there, and we'll continue to make the necessary investment to continue to grow our SIP business.

我認為就整體 SIP 業務而言，去年我們有 50% 的增長，所以今年，我認為增長率將開始 - 會有所下降。但總的來說，我認為勢頭仍然存在，我們將繼續進行必要的投資以繼續發展我們的 SIP 業務。

In second quarter, I think the overall SIP business represents about 17% of our overall business from the holding standpoint; for EMS, 40%; and for assembly and test, it's about 4%. And all these ratios will grow in the second half.

在第二季度，從控股的角度來看，我認為整體 SIP 業務約占我們整體業務的 17%；對於 EMS，40%；對於組裝和測試，大約是 4%。所有這些比率都將在下半年增長。

Okay. And for the EMS business where you're a little bit -- it sounds like a much better environment for semis relative to EMS right now with the tightness. So is that 4% -- I mean does it feel like that's difficult until we get back to a better balance or there's kind of a program in place to improve that or you have a bit of -- like you're doing in ATM a little bit of pricing to offset the higher costs to get back to that type of margin target?

好的。對於您所處的 EMS 業務而言，相對於 EMS，現在由於緊縮性，這聽起來像是一個更好的半成品環境。那 4% 也是如此——我的意思是在我們恢復到更好的平衡之前感覺這很困難，或者有某種程序可以改善它，或者你有一點——就像你在 ATM 中做的那樣一點點定價來抵消更高的成本以回到那種類型的利潤率目標？

I think the -- for the ATM, it will continue to grow in terms of percentage of overall business in third and fourth quarter, and for the whole year, it will be at a higher rate than what we're seeing in the second quarter. Were you asking about EMS margin?

我認為 - 對於 ATM 而言，它在第三和第四季度佔整體業務的百分比將繼續增長，並且在全年，它將以高於我們在第二季度看到的速度增長.你問的是EMS保證金嗎？

Yes. EMS operating margin.

是的。 EMS營業利潤率。

Okay. We're still...

好的。仍然...

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Okay. So it's still 4%.

好的。所以還是4%。

Yes. We're still looking at 4%. It's becoming a more challenging target because of the overall logistic cost is rising. All the operating uncertainties is higher at this point, but still we're maintaining that target run rate.

是的。我們仍然在看 4%。由於整體物流成本正在上升，這正成為一個更具挑戰性的目標。在這一點上，所有的運營不確定性都較高，但我們仍然保持目標運行率。

Okay. And the last question I have, just on the advanced packaging for things like SOIC and TSMC, SOIC. Intel has their Foveros. If we get some move to the 3D stack, is that a market you see OSAT or SOIC participating in? Or would that really -- if we go to full 3D, I see it's -- there's not as much for you to do. Or is there still like some final assembly to substrate? I'm just curious if you see an opportunity in that area.

好的。我的最後一個問題是關於 SOIC 和 TSMC、SOIC 等先進封裝的問題。英特爾有他們的 Foveros。如果我們轉向 3D 堆棧，您會看到 OSAT 或 SOIC 參與的市場嗎？或者真的會 - 如果我們使用全 3D，我明白了 - 你可以做的事情並不多。或者是否還有一些最終組裝到基板？我只是好奇你是否在該領域看到了機會。

Well, the short answer is we have always been in development with key customer along the line of 2.5D and the -- for example, we're the first one to launch the 2.5D with a key customer in Texas, and 3D IC that development, we never stop.

嗯，簡短的回答是，我們一直在與主要客戶一起開發 2.5D，例如，我們是第一個與德克薩斯州的主要客戶一起推出 2.5D 和 3D IC 的公司發展，我們永不止步。

But one of the things I was trying to articulate is we really have to understand the service versus the business model. If we have any company providing a service that is proprietary, serving unique customer, that is not OSAT business. The definition of OSAT business, you should have at least 2 alternative service providers each, at least have 2 customers.

但我試圖表達的一件事是，我們真的必須了解服務與商業模式。如果我們有任何公司提供專有服務，服務於獨特的客戶，那不是 OSAT 業務。 OSAT業務的定義，每個至少要有2個備選服務提供商，至少要有2個客戶。

So we have multiple customers with the multiple open platform that becomes a viable OSAT business with a sustainable volume. Whatever comes into the OSAT world, and there are plenty of that, ASE will take a clear leadership in that.

因此，我們擁有多個使用多個開放平台的客戶，該平台成為具有可持續數量的可行 OSAT 業務。無論進入 OSAT 世界，而且其中有很多，ASE 都將在這方面發揮明確的領導作用。

Now when the 2.5D or the 3D IC or whichever chiplet architecture becomes OSAT, in other words, there are multiple foundry offering their service, and there are multiple people accepting alternative process achieving the same architecture and similar cost and performance. ASE absolutely will be a participant. And I believe this kind of open platform versus the proprietary and not only OSAT is driving it. Everybody in the world, including our end customers, eventually would like to see that.

現在，當 2.5D 或 3D IC 或任何小芯片架構成為 OSAT 時，換句話說，有多家代工廠提供他們的服務，並且有多個人接受替代工藝以實現相同架構和相似的成本和性能。 ASE 絕對會成為參與者。而且我相信這種開放平台與專有平台相比，不僅是 OSAT 正在推動它。世界上的每個人，包括我們的最終客戶，最終都希望看到這一點。

So I think the macro trend is very clear. But in terms of how do we take one step to another, the reality is very complicated. You really have to have a foundry development. You have to have architectural development, material process, the mechanical, thermal, and all of these things will take a unique company to put a lot of R&D resource to make sure they can define the standard for that, and I think that's what we're seeing today.

所以我認為宏觀趨勢是非常明確的。但就我們如何一步一步而言，現實是非常複雜的。你真的必須有一個代工開發。你必須有建築開發、材料工藝、機械、熱力，所有這些都需要一家獨特的公司投入大量的研發資源來確保他們可以為此定義標準，我認為這就是我們的目標。今天又看到了。

The good thing is packaging is emerging as a more critical, integral part for the whole semiconductor ecosystem, and that's welcome. But in terms of which technology will be more industrial-wise pervasive, and I think the time will prove that. But ASE will not be missing this part.

好消息是封裝正在成為整個半導體生態系統中更重要、更不可或缺的部分，這是值得歡迎的。但就哪種技術在工業方面更普遍而言，我認為時間會證明這一點。但是 ASE 不會缺少這部分。

Next question is from Mr. Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的 Bruce Lu 先生。

Okay. I want to have a quick follow-up for the CapEx. What's the CapEx allocation for testing, bonding, wirebonding for this year?

好的。我想快速跟進資本支出。今年測試、鍵合、引線鍵合的資本支出分配是多少？

The CapEx location or...

資本支出位置或...

Allocation. Allocation.

分配。分配。

Okay. So you're asking about basically planned CapEx for test.

好的。所以你問的是基本計劃的測試資本支出。

For everything. I mean what's the CapEx allocation, Yes.

對於一切。我的意思是資本支出分配是多少，是的。

I think for this year, the likely allocation will be around 65% for assembly, roughly 23% to 25% for test, a little bit for material and then roughly 9% to 10% for EMS.

我認為今年，可能的分配將約為 65% 用於組裝，大約 23% 到 25% 用於測試，一點點用於材料，然後大約 9% 到 10% 用於 EMS。

Okay. So assuming that your equipment lead time, right now, it's more than a year. So your CapEx for next year should be foreseeable.

好的。所以假設你的設備交貨時間，現在，是一年多。所以你明年的資本支出應該是可以預見的。

Huh?

嗯？

Because you already mentioned that the CapEx equipment lead time right now is more than a year, right? So basically, you know how many equipment you're going to spend for the coming like 12, 15 months already, so which means that your CapEx for next year should have a very clear pictures.

因為您已經提到現在的資本支出設備交貨時間超過一年，對吧？所以基本上，你已經知道你將在接下來的 12、15 個月內花費多少設備，這意味著你明年的資本支出應該有一個非常清晰的畫面。

Well, when we talk about CapEx, we're talking about required CapEx and not necessarily the test CapEx that we're talking about.

好吧，當我們談論資本支出時，我們談論的是必需的資本支出，而不一定是我們正在談論的測試資本支出。

I see. Okay. The next question is a quick question. Can you give us the revenue contribution from automotive or from the IDM in your ATM business?

我懂了。好的。下一個問題是一個快速的問題。您能否告訴我們汽車或 IDM 在您的 ATM 業務中的收入貢獻？

Bruce, you're looking for how much revenue the automotive sector represents?

布魯斯，您在尋找汽車行業代表多少收入？

Yes, in ATM.

是的，在 ATM 上。

Roughly, second quarter is around 6% -- 5% to 6%.

粗略地說，第二季度約為 6% - 5% 至 6%。

Do you see a clear uptrend?

你看到明顯的上升趨勢了嗎？

Yes. Well, I think we're pretty aggressive in terms of ramping up our automotive business.

是的。好吧，我認為我們在擴大汽車業務方面非常積極。

Do you expect it to be more than 10% in 2022?

您預計到 2022 年會超過 10% 嗎？

Well, we'll look at it. But there's going to be quite a bit of growth this year, over 50% net growth.

好吧，我們會看看它。但今年會有相當大的增長，超過 50% 的淨增長。

Wow. Okay. So what is your IDM revenue exposure right now?

哇。好的。那麼您現在的 IDM 收入敞口是多少？

The IDM exposure?

IDM曝光？

Yes. IDM customers.

是的。 IDM 客戶。

Yes. Around 1/3 of our business has come from IDM.

是的。我們大約 1/3 的業務來自 IDM。

Do we have additional questions at this time?

我們此時還有其他問題嗎？

There is no question.

沒有問題。

Okay. I'll turn it over to Dr. Tien Wu to wrap up the call.

好的。我會把它交給天武博士來結束通話。

Well, thank you very much for your patience and support to ASE. 2021 has been a very challenging but extremely exciting year for us. Much of the EAR impact which plagued us last year has been resolved. And I would like to thank all of you for supporting us, and I look forward to a successful 2021, and we'll talk to you next quarter. And in the meantime, please stay safe and healthy. Thank you.

好的，非常感謝您對 ASE 的耐心和支持。 2021 年對我們來說是非常具有挑戰性但又非常激動人心的一年。去年困擾我們的大部分 EAR 影響已經得到解決。我要感謝你們所有人對我們的支持，我期待著 2021 年取得成功，我們將在下個季度與你們交談。同時，請保持安全和健康。謝謝你。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。