日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2021 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, I am Ken Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2021 earnings release. Thank you for attending our conference call today. Please refer to our safe harbor notice on Page 2. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please disconnect at this time.

大家好，我是日月光科技控股投資者關係負責人 Ken Hsiang。歡迎來到我們的 2021 年第四季度和全年收益發布。感謝您參加我們今天的電話會議。請參閱我們在第 2 頁上的安全港通知。所有參與者都同意通過參與本次活動來廣播他們的聲音和問題。如果參與者不同意，請在此時斷開連接。

I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements. These forward looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially. For the purposes of this presentation, our dollar figures are generally stated in new Taiwan dollars unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan based company, our financials are presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those represented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP.

我想提醒大家，下面的演示文稿可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述存在高度風險，我們的實際結果可能存在重大差異。就本報告而言，除非另有說明，否則我們的美元數字通常以新台幣表示。作為一家台灣公司，我們的財務按照台灣國際財務報告準則呈報。使用台灣 IFRS 呈現的結果可能與使用其他會計準則的結果存在重大差異，包括我們子公司使用中國 GAAP 所代表的結果。

I am joined today by Dr. Tien Yu Wu, our COO and Joseph Tung, our CFO. For today's call, I will be going over our financial results. Tien will be providing our annual business recap and outlook. And Joseph will then provide an update on our China site dispositions and our quarterly guidance. We'll have a Q&A session following the prepared remarks.

今天，我們的首席運營官 Tien Yu Wu 博士和首席財務官 Joseph Tung 加入了我的行列。對於今天的電話會議，我將回顧我們的財務業績。 Tien 將提供我們的年度業務回顧和展望。約瑟夫隨後將提供有關我們中國網站配置和季度指導的最新信息。在準備好的評論之後，我們將進行問答環節。

Please turn to Page 3, where you will find our fourth quarter consolidated results. Intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses have been eliminated during consolidation. During the quarter, we announced and completed the disposition of our subsidiary ASE Inc.'s major China sites. From a financial perspective, the sites were valued at an enterprise value of USD 1.46 billion, and the final consideration was USD 1.33 billion after adding cash balances and deducting the existing debt. We recorded in the fourth quarter a gain of USD 551 million net of related expenses and taxes. Joseph will give more details regarding this transaction towards the end of our prepared remarks.

請轉到第 3 頁，您將在其中找到我們第四季度的綜合業績。我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易已在合併期間消除。在本季度，我們宣布並完成了對子公司 ASE Inc. 在中國主要工廠的處置。從財務角度來看，這些地塊的企業價值為14.6億美元，加上現金餘額和扣除現有債務後的最終對價為13.3億美元。我們在第四季度錄得 5.51 億美元的淨收益，扣除相關費用和稅項。約瑟夫將在我們準備好的評論結束時提供有關此交易的更多詳細信息。

For the fourth quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of $6.99 and basic EPS of $7.20. Without the inclusion of our China site disposition gain, fully diluted and basic EPS would be $3.45 and $3.66, respectively. Consolidated net revenue increased 15% sequentially and 16% year-over-year. We had a gross profit of $32.9 billion with a gross margin of 19%. Our gross margin declined by 1.4 percentage points sequentially, and increased by 3.3 percentage points year-over-year. This sequential margin decline is principally the result of higher EMS business mix. The annual increase is primarily the result of higher profitability of our ATM business.

第四季度，我們錄得 6.99 美元的完全攤薄後每股收益和 7.20 美元的基本每股收益。如果不包括我們在中國的網站處置收益，完全攤薄後的每股收益和基本每股收益將分別為 3.45 美元和 3.66 美元。合併淨收入環比增長 15%，同比增長 16%。我們的毛利潤為 329 億美元，毛利率為 19%。我們的毛利率環比下降 1.4 個百分點，同比增長 3.3 個百分點。這一連續利潤率下降主要是由於 EMS 業務組合增加所致。年度增長主要是由於我們的 ATM 業務盈利能力提高。

Our operating expenses increased by $0.9 billion during the fourth quarter to $13.3 billion as a result of higher profit sharing expenses issued during the quarter. Despite the absolute dollar increase, our operating expense percentage declined 0.5 percentage points sequentially, and 0.4 percentage points year-over-year to 7.7%. Operating profit was $19.6 billion, up $1.2 billion sequentially, and $8.4 billion year-over-year. Operating margin was 11.3% declining 0.9 percentage points sequentially as a result of higher EMS product mix, while operating margin increased 3.7 percentage points year-over-year as a result of higher profitability from our ATM business.

由於本季度發布的利潤分享費用增加，我們的運營費用在第四季度增加了 9 億美元，達到 133 億美元。儘管美元絕對增長，但我們的運營費用百分比環比下降 0.5 個百分點，同比下降 0.4 個百分點至 7.7%。營業利潤為 196 億美元，環比增長 12 億美元，同比增長 84 億美元。由於 EMS 產品組合增加，營業利潤率為 11.3%，環比下降 0.9 個百分點，而由於我們的 ATM 業務的盈利能力提高，營業利潤率同比增長 3.7 個百分點。

During the quarter, we had a net non-operating gain of $17.7 billion. The gain from the China site dispositions accounted for $17.3 billion of this net non-operating gain. The remaining non-operating gain was from our foreign exchange activities, government grants and other non-operating gains. This amount was offset in part by net interest expense of $0.6 billion. Tax expense for the quarter was $5.6 billion. The effective tax rate for the fourth quarter was 15%. The lower effective tax rate during the quarter was principally the result of differing taxation methodology related to our China site disposal.

本季度，我們的淨營業外收益為 177 億美元。處置中國場地的收益佔非經營性淨收益的 173 億美元。剩餘的營業外收益來自我們的外匯活動、政府補助和其他營業外收益。這一數額被 6 億美元的淨利息支出部分抵消。本季度的稅收支出為 56 億美元。第四季度的有效稅率為 15%。本季度較低的有效稅率主要是由於與我們的中國場地出售相關的不同稅收方法的結果。

Net income for the quarter was $30.9 billion representing an improvement of $16.7 billion sequentially, and an improvement of $20.9 billion year-over-year. Excluding the gain, net of taxes and related expenses from the sale of our China sites, our net income would be $15.6 billion dollars, which would still represent substantial earnings growth of $1.4 billion sequentially, and $5.6 billion year-over-year. The NT dollar U.S. dollar exchange rate was fairly stable from the third to fourth quarter, and as a result, did not impact holding company level margins meaningfully. However, from a year-over-year perspective, we estimate that the strengthening NT dollar had a 1 percentage point negative impact gross margin. As a rule of thumb, for every percent the NT dollar appreciates, we see a corresponding 0.3 percentage point impact to our holding company gross margin.

本季度淨收入為 309 億美元，環比增長 167 億美元，同比增長 209 億美元。扣除出售我們中國網站的稅收和相關費用後的收益，我們的淨收入將為 156 億美元，這仍代表著連續 14 億美元和同比 56 億美元的可觀收益增長。從第三季度到第四季度，新台幣美元匯率相當穩定，因此並未對控股公司的利潤率產生有意義的影響。然而，從同比來看，我們估計新台幣走強對毛利率產生了 1 個百分點的負面影響。根據經驗，新台幣每升值百分之一，我們看到對我們控股公司毛利率的相應影響為 0.3 個百分點。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA related expenses. Consolidated gross profit excluding PPA expenses would be $33.8 billion with a 19.6% gross margin. Operating profit would be $20.8 billion, with an operating margin of 12%. Net profit would be $32.1 billion with a net margin of 18.6%. Basic EPS excluding PPA expenses would be $7.48.

在頁面底部，我們提供了關鍵損益項目，但不包括 PPA 相關費用。不包括 PPA 費用的合併毛利潤為 338 億美元，毛利率為 19.6%。營業利潤為 208 億美元，營業利潤率為 12%。淨利潤為 321 億美元，淨利潤率為 18.6%。不包括 PPA 費用的基本每股收益為 7.48 美元。

Please refer to Page 4. Here you will find the 2021 consolidated full year result. Fully diluted EPS for the year was $14.40, while basic EPS was $14.84. Fully diluted EPS for the year without inclusion of our China site dispositions would be $10.86 and basic EPS would be $11.30. For 2021, consolidated net revenues grew 20% as compared with 2020. ATM revenues grew 21%, while EMS revenues grew 17% annually. Gross profit for the year was $110.4 billion, increasing $32.4 billion year-over-year or 42%. In 2021, our gross margin improved 3.1 percentage points to 19.4%, principally as a result of higher profitability in our ATM business and slight improvement in EMS.

請參閱第 4 頁。您將在此處找到 2021 年綜合全年結果。全年完全攤薄後每股收益為 14.40 美元，而基本每股收益為 14.84 美元。不包括我們在中國的場地處置的年度完全攤薄每股收益為 10.86 美元，基本每股收益為 11.30 美元。與 2020 年相比，2021 年合併淨收入增長 20%。ATM 收入增長 21%，而 EMS 收入每年增長 17%。全年毛利潤為 1104 億美元，同比增長 324 億美元或 42%。 2021年，我們的毛利率提高3.1個百分點至19.4%，主要是由於我們的ATM業務盈利能力提高和EMS業務略有改善。

Operating Expenses increased $5.1 billion for the year and came in at $48.2 billion. We were able to lower our operating expense percentage by 0.5 percentage points to 8.5% for the year. Operating profit for the year was $62.1 billion, improving 78% or $27.2 billion dollars. Operating margin for the year was 10.9%, an improvement of 3.6 percentage points. We recorded a net non-operating gain of $18.2 billion for the year. As mentioned earlier, $17.3 billion of this was attributable to the disposition of our China sites. The remainder was primarily attributable to investment income government grants and other non-operating income offset by net interest expense of $2.3 billion.

全年營業費用增加 51 億美元，達到 482 億美元。我們能夠將全年的運營費用百分比降低 0.5 個百分點至 8.5%。全年營業利潤為 621 億美元，增長 78%，即 272 億美元。全年營業利潤率為10.9%，提高3.6個百分點。我們全年錄得 182 億美元的淨營業外收益。如前所述，其中 173 億美元歸因於對我們中國網站的處置。其餘主要來自投資收入政府補助和其他營業外收入被淨利息支出23億美元所抵消。

Total tax expense was $14.3 billion. The effective tax rate for the year was 17.8%. Our full year effective tax rate was primarily lower as the result of different taxation methodology related to our China site disposals. For ongoing purposes, we believe our effective tax rate to be about 20.5%. Net income increased by 132% to $63.9 billion. On a full year basis, we estimate that the strengthening NT dollar had a negative 1.6 percentage point impact to gross and operating margins. Removing the effect of PPA depreciation, our gross margin would be 20%. Our operating margin would be 11.8%. Our basic EPS would be $15.96.

總稅費為 143 億美元。當年有效稅率為17.8%。我們的全年有效稅率較低主要是由於與我們的中國場地出售相關的不同稅收方法。出於持續的目的，我們認為我們的有效稅率約為 20.5%。淨收入增長 132% 至 639 億美元。在全年的基礎上，我們估計新台幣走強對毛利率和營業利潤率產生了 1.6 個百分點的負面影響。除去 PPA 折舊的影響，我們的毛利率為 20%。我們的營業利潤率為 11.8%。我們的基本每股收益為 15.96 美元。

On Page 5 is our ATM P&L. It is worth noting here that the ATM revenue reported here contains revenue eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses. During the fourth quarter, our ATM business continued to run at a fully loaded rate. Operationally, it was almost a continuation of the third quarter with slightly more business. We had a reclassification of bonus expense from cost of goods sold to operating expense during the quarter. We will explain sequential fluctuations that are impacted by this after the reported numbers are presented here.

第 5 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。值得注意的是，此處報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層面消除的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。第四季度，我們的 ATM 業務繼續滿負荷運行。從運營上看，這幾乎是第三季度的延續，業務略有增加。我們在本季度將獎金費用從銷售成本重新分類為運營費用。我們將在此處提供報告的數字後解釋受此影響的連續波動。

For the fourth quarter 2021, revenues for ATM business were $92.0 billion, up $1.9 billion from the previous quarter and up $19.2 billion from the same period last year. This represents a 2% increase sequentially and a 26% increase year-over-year. Our ATM revenues came in slightly ahead of our expectations due to higher than expected customer loading. Gross profit for our ATM business was $25.7 billion, up $1 billion sequentially, and $9.3 billion year-over-year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 28%, up 0.6 percentage points sequentially and up 5.4 percentage points year-over-year. The year-over-year gross profit margin improvement was primarily attributable to higher loading, improved efficiency and a friendlier ASP environment offset in part by a stronger NT dollar appreciation.

2021年第四季度，ATM業務收入為920億美元，比上一季度增加19億美元，比去年同期增加192億美元。這意味著環比增長 2%，同比增長 26%。由於高於預期的客戶負載，我們的 ATM 收入略高於我們的預期。我們 ATM 業務的毛利潤為 257 億美元，環比增長 10 億美元，同比增長 93 億美元。 ATM業務的毛利率為28%，環比上升0.6個百分點，同比上升5.4個百分點。毛利率同比增長主要是由於更高的負載、提高的效率和更友好的 ASP 環境，部分被新台幣升值所抵消。

During the fourth quarter, operating expenses were $9.7 billion, up $0.6 billion sequentially, and $1.2 billion year-over-year. The year-over-year increase was primarily driven by a higher employee headcount and incremental bonuses tied to corporate performance. Our operating expense percentage was 10.5%, up 0.4 percentage points sequentially, and down 1.1 percentage points year-over-year. During the fourth quarter, operating profit was $16.1 billion, representing an improvement of $0.5 billion dollars quarter-over-quarter and an improvement of $8.1 billion year-over-year. The year-over-year mark represents a 101% increase from last year.

第四季度，運營費用為 97 億美元，環比增長 6 億美元，同比增長 12 億美元。同比增長主要是由於員工人數增加和與公司業績掛鉤的獎金增加所致。我們的營業費用百分比為 10.5%，環比上升 0.4 個百分點，同比下降 1.1 個百分點。第四季度，營業利潤為 161 億美元，環比增長 5 億美元，同比增長 81 億美元。與去年同期相比，同比增長了 101%。

Operating margin was 17.5%, improving 0.2 percentage points sequentially and 6.5 percentage points year-over-year. The NT dollar exchange rate did not have a significant impact on our ATM sequential margins. However, on a year-over-year basis, we estimate that the strengthening NT dollar had a 1.5 percentage point negative impact. During the quarter, we made a onetime reclassification of $0.4 billion relating to how bonuses were classified between cost of goods sold and operating expenses during the first 3 quarters of the year. In the fourth quarter. this reclassification lowers cost of goods sold compensation expenses, while increasing OpEx level compensation expenses.

營業利潤率為17.5%，環比提高0.2個百分點，同比提高6.5個百分點。新台幣匯率對我們的 ATM 連續保證金沒有顯著影響。然而，按年計算，我們估計新台幣走強帶來了 1.5 個百分點的負面影響。在本季度，我們對今年前三個季度的獎金在銷售成本和運營費用之間的分類方式進行了一次重新分類，金額為 4 億美元。在第四季度。這種重新分類降低了商品銷售成本補償費用，同時增加了運營支出水平的補償費用。

Adjusting for bonus reclassification, our gross profit margin would be 27.6% or flat sequentially. Our sequential operating expenses would be flattish up $0.1 billion, and our operating expense percentage would be 10.1%, down 0.2 percentage points sequentially. This reclassification has no impact to ATM operating margins. It also has no impact at a full year level. Without the impact of PPA related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 28.9% and operating profit margin would be 18.7%.

調整獎金重新分類後，我們的毛利率將為 27.6% 或環比持平。我們的環比運營費用將持平增加 1 億美元，我們的運營費用百分比將為 10.1%，環比下降 0.2 個百分點。這種重新分類對 ATM 運營利潤率沒有影響。它對全年水平也沒有影響。如果不考慮 PPA 相關折舊和攤銷的影響，ATM 毛利率為 28.9%，營業利潤率為 18.7%。

On Page 6, we have our ATM full year P&L. On this page, you can see how that we saw a significant improvement in all aspects of our business during the year. 2021 revenues for ATM business increased by 19% with our packaging business and test business up 22% and 6% respectively. Gross profit for the year improved 49% to $88.7 billion. Gross margin was up 5.3 percentage points primarily as a result of higher loading and efficiency, a friendly ASP environment and offset in part by NT dollar appreciation.

在第 6 頁，我們有我們的 ATM 全年損益表。在此頁面上，您可以看到我們如何在這一年中看到我們業務的各個方面都有顯著改善。 2021 年 ATM 業務收入增長 19%，我們的封裝業務和測試業務分別增長 22% 和 6%。全年毛利潤增長 49% 至 887 億美元。毛利率上升 5.3 個百分點，主要是由於更高的負載和效率、友好的 ASP 環境以及部分被新台幣升值所抵消。

Our operating expense percentage declined by 0.9 percentage points from 11.4% to 10.5%. Operating profit improved 94% to $53.4 billion, with operating margin improving 6.2 percentage points to 16%. On a full year basis, we estimate that the strengthening NT dollar had a 2.3 percentage point impact gross margins. Without the impact of PPA expenses, gross profit margin would be 27.5%, and operating margin would be 17.3%.

我們的營業費用百分比從 11.4% 下降 0.9 個百分點至 10.5%。營業利潤增長 94% 至 534 億美元，營業利潤率增長 6.2 個百分點至 16%。在全年的基礎上，我們估計新台幣走強對毛利率有 2.3 個百分點的影響。如果沒有 PPA 費用的影響，毛利率為 27.5%，營業利潤率為 17.3%。

On Page 7, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. The commentary we would like to reinforce here is that we believe the improvements in our business are not only related to a prolonged semiconductor cyclical uptick. We strongly believe that we have substantial systemic improvements from our combination with SPIL. And while cyclicality in the industry is a given, from a longer term perspective, we believe that our margins still have further room to rise, given our strengthened market position after the combination with SPIL.

在第 7 頁，您會發現我們的 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。我們想在此強調的評論是，我們相信我們業務的改善不僅與半導體的長期週期性上漲有關。我們堅信，我們與 SPIL 的結合會帶來實質性的系統性改進。雖然行業的周期性是既定的，但從長期來看，我們相信我們的利潤率仍有進一步上升的空間，因為我們在與 SPIL 合併後鞏固了市場地位。

On Page 8 is our ATM revenue by market segment. There is not a significant change here. However, it is worth noting that our computing segment appears to be outperforming our communication segment. This appears to be driven by strong demand from high performance computing products.

第 8 頁是我們按細分市場劃分的 ATM 收入。這裡沒有顯著變化。然而，值得注意的是，我們的計算部門似乎優於我們的通信部門。這似乎是由高性能計算產品的強勁需求推動的。

On Page 9, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. As we have mentioned, we expected a significant uptick in our advanced packaging services during the quarter. We expect continued strength within advanced packaging to persist through 2022. We also expect our testing revenues to outperform during 2022, after a muted 2021 which was impacted by EAR related business adjustment. As a percentage of revenue, our wirebond revenues have declined, but were flattish on an absolute dollar basis.

在第 9 頁，您會發現我們按服務類型劃分的 ATM 收入。正如我們所提到的，我們預計本季度我們的先進封裝服務將顯著增長。我們預計先進封裝領域的持續強勢將持續到 2022 年。我們還預計，在 2021 年受到 EAR 相關業務調整的影響之後，我們的測試收入將在 2022 年表現出色。作為收入的百分比，我們的引線鍵合收入有所下降，但在絕對美元基礎上持平。

On Page 10, you can see the fourth quarter and full year results of our EMS business. The information we provide in regards to USI may differ materially from the information directly provided by our A share listed subsidiary, as they report independently using Chinese GAAP. During the quarter, demand was stronger than anticipated driven by stronger than expected demand for our SiP services. As production was slowed by component and chip shortages and its third quarter, such operating conditions continued to persist throughout the fourth quarter. Further in 2020, our consumer SiP business had a significantly later start as compared to the current year 2021.

在第 10 頁，您可以看到我們 EMS 業務的第四季度和全年業績。我們提供的有關環旭電子的信息可能與我們的 A 股上市子公司直接提供的信息存在重大差異，因為它們使用中國公認會計原則獨立報告。在本季度，由於對我們的 SiP 服務的需求強於預期，需求強於預期。由於組件和芯片短缺以及第三季度生產放緩，這種經營狀況在整個第四季度持續存在。到 2020 年，我們的消費級 SiP 業務的啟動時間比 2021 年要晚得多。

We believe the combination of these 2 factors distorts fourth quarter year-over-year comparisons. And as such, we believe that comparing back half numbers may be more telling of our EMS business's performance in such situations. For EMS business during the fourth quarter, EMS revenues increased 33% sequentially, and 3% year-over-year. As a result of component and chip shortages, this year's production cycle of certain SiP products was more evenly spread out across our third and fourth quarters. Some production will push into the first quarter of 2022. In 2020, the production cycle for some of our consumer SiP products launched later than 2021. As such, the year-over-year percentage increase was a bit muted. If we compare second half numbers between 2020 and 2021, we saw a 13% improvement in revenues.

我們認為，這兩個因素的結合扭曲了第四季度的同比比較。因此，我們認為比較後半部分的數字可能更能說明我們的 EMS 業務在這種情況下的表現。對於第四季度的 EMS 業務，EMS 收入環比增長 33%，同比增長 3%。由於組件和芯片短缺，今年某些 SiP 產品的生產週期在我們的第三季度和第四季度分佈得更加均勻。部分生產將推遲到 2022 年第一季度。在 2020 年，我們的一些消費級 SiP 產品的生產週期在 2021 年之後推出。因此，同比增長百分比有點低。如果我們比較 2020 年和 2021 年下半年的數字，我們看到收入增長了 13%。

Our EMS gross profit was $7.1 billion, improving $1.2 billion sequentially, and $0.1 billion year-over-year. The sequential gross profit improvement is the result of the seasonal ramp of our SiP related products. The year-over-year improvement is again the reflection of comparing 2 manufacturing cycles at different times. Comparing second half gross profits, we saw a 7% improvement from 2020 to 2021. Gross profit margin for the EMS business unit came in at 8.7%, which is a decline of 0.9 percentage points sequentially, and 0.1 percentage points year-over-year. The margin declines are primarily the result of product mix shifting to higher material pass through products.

我們的 EMS 毛利潤為 71 億美元，環比增長 12 億美元，同比增長 1 億美元。毛利環比增長是我們的 SiP 相關產品季節性增長的結果。同比改進再次反映了在不同時間比較兩個製造週期。比較下半年毛利潤，我們看到從 2020 年到 2021 年增長了 7%。EMS 業務部門的毛利率為 8.7%，環比下降 0.9 個百分點，同比下降 0.1 個百分點.利潤率下降主要是由於產品組合轉向更高材料通過率的產品。

Our EMS business units fourth quarter operating expenses were $3.5 billion, increasing the $0.3 billion sequentially, and flat year-over-year. Operating Expenses increased primarily as a result of increased employee profit sharing recorded during the year-end. Our EMS units operating expense percentage was 4.3%, down 1 percentage point sequentially and 0.2 percentage points year-over-year. This sequential decline in operating expense percentage is primarily attributable to higher revenues, while containing operating expenses.

我們的 EMS 業務部門第四季度運營費用為 35 億美元，環比增長 3 億美元，同比持平。營業費用增加主要是由於年底記錄的員工利潤分享增加。我們的 EMS 單位運營費用百分比為 4.3%，環比下降 1 個百分點，同比下降 0.2 個百分點。營業費用百分比的連續下降主要是由於收入增加，同時包含營業費用。

Our EMS operating profit improved $0.9 billion sequentially, and $0.1 billion year-over-year. This sequential improvement was primarily due to increased seasonal demand for SiP products. Our EMS operating margin was 4.4%, which is up 0.1 percentage point sequentially, and is flat year-over-year. On a full year perspective, our EMS business in challenging conditions delivered another strong year. On a full year perspective, our EMS business revenues increased 17%. Gross profit increased 14%. In these challenging operating conditions characterized by wafer and component shortages, our full year gross and operating profit margins each declined by 0.2 percentage points.

我們的 EMS 營業利潤環比增長 9 億美元，同比增長 1 億美元。這種連續改善主要是由於對 SiP 產品的季節性需求增加。我們的 EMS 營業利潤率為 4.4%，環比上升 0.1 個百分點，同比持平。從全年來看，我們在充滿挑戰的條件下的 EMS 業務又迎來了強勁的一年。從全年來看，我們的 EMS 業務收入增長了 17%。毛利增長14%。在以晶圓和組件短缺為特徵的這些具有挑戰性的運營條件下，我們的全年毛利率和營業利潤率均下降了 0.2 個百分點。

On Page 11, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. With sales increasing 33% sequentially, interpreting this chart gets a bit tricky. What is fairly straightforward to see is that our consumer segment increased by 5 percentage points as a result of product seasonality. Other categories generally grew in absolute dollars. However, their growths were not as pronounced as that of the consumer segment.

在第 11 頁，您將找到按應用劃分的 EMS 收入的圖形表示。隨著銷售額連續增長 33%，解釋這張圖表有點棘手。顯而易見的是，由於產品的季節性，我們的消費者群體增加了 5 個百分點。其他類別通常以絕對美元增長。然而，它們的增長並不像消費領域那樣明顯。

On Page 12, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the quarter, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of $79.1 billion dollars. Our total interest bearing debt was $227.2 billion. Total unused credit lines amounted to $278.8 billion. Our EBITDA for the quarter was $51.9 billion. EBITDA for the year was $136.8 billion and our net debt to equity was 54% at the end of the year.

在第 12 頁，您將找到我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。在本季度末，我們擁有 791 億美元的現金、現金等價物和流動金融資產。我們的有息債務總額為 2272 億美元。未使用的信貸額度總額為 2788 億美元。我們本季度的 EBITDA 為 519 億美元。當年的 EBITDA 為 1368 億美元，截至年底，我們的淨債務權益比率為 54%。

On Page 13, you will find our equipment capital expenditures. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the fourth quarter in U.S. dollars totaled $472 million, of which $231 million were used in packaging operations, $116 million in test operations, $68 million in EMS operations and $13 million in interconnect material operations and others. For the full year, machinery and equipment capital expenditures were $2 billion. $1.3 billion was spent on packaging, $0.5 billion on test and $0.2 billion on EMS.

在第 13 頁，您將找到我們的設備資本支出。第四季度機械設備資本支出以美元計為 4.72 億美元，其中 2.31 億美元用於封裝業務，1.16 億美元用於測試業務，6800 萬美元用於 EMS 業務，1300 萬美元用於互連材料業務等。全年，機械和設備資本支出為 20 億美元。 13 億美元用於封裝，5 億美元用於測試，2 億美元用於 EMS。

Our ATM business continues to be constrained by substrate and wafer availability, in addition to a lack of our own manufacturing capacity. Given that we can generally put in capacity faster than our upstream foundry partners and our substrate suppliers, we can be a lot more nimble in our approach to our business. Although our smart factories do take somewhat more investment and time to build, we still believe that many of our investments are granular, which allows us to adapt quickly to market conditions. We continue to provide our EBITDA in U.S. dollars here as a reference. The earnings related to the China site disposition are separated for better comparability. We believe that the company's EBITDA relative to our equipment CapEx serves as a key financial performance metric for the company.

除了缺乏我們自己的製造能力外，我們的 ATM 業務繼續受到基板和晶圓可用性的限制。鑑於我們通常可以比我們的上游代工合作夥伴和我們的基板供應商更快地投入產能，我們可以更加靈活地處理我們的業務。儘管我們的智能工廠確實需要更多的投資和時間來建設，但我們仍然相信我們的許多投資都是細粒度的，這使我們能夠快速適應市場條件。我們繼續在此處以美元提供我們的 EBITDA 作為參考。為了更好的可比性，將與中國場地處置相關的收益分開。我們認為，公司的 EBITDA 相對於我們的設備資本支出是公司的關鍵財務業績指標。

Before we move on to Dr. Tien Yu Wu's and Joseph Tung's sections, I would like to inform everyone that they will make forward-looking references on a pro forma basis, removing the results of the China factory sold. As a reference, we have included an appendix to the slide deck that has a set of quarterly pro forma financial statements for the consolidated holding company, and one for our ATM business unit.

在我們進入吳天宇博士和董建華的部分之前，我想告訴大家，他們將在備考基礎上進行前瞻性參考，刪除中國工廠出售的結果。作為參考，我們在幻燈片中包含了一個附錄，其中包含一組合併控股公司的季度備考財務報表，以及我們的 ATM 業務部門的一個。

With that said, I pass the presentation over to Dr. Tien Yu Wu. Dr. Wu?

話雖如此，我將演示文稿交給了吳天宇博士。吳醫生？

Hi, everyone. I would like to give you the 2021 recap, as well as the outlook for 2022. I will also touch base on the industry perspective from where we can see. First of all, 2021 was a good year. We have seen revenue and margin improvement better than target. For example, in '21, the ATM revenue grew 26% year-over-year or 45% year-over-year, if we exclude the EAR-affected business. The ATM margin, gross margin was 26.5% approaching historical peak level of 27%. ASE consolidated revenue grew 26% year-over-year. ASE consolidated operating margin improved 3.6 percentage points versus the target that we set at the beginning of the year of 2.5% to 3%. So overall, '21 was a good year.

大家好。我想給你 2021 年的回顧，以及 2022 年的展望。我還將從我們可以看到的行業角度談一談。首先，2021年是個好年頭。我們看到收入和利潤率的改善好於目標。例如，在 21 年，如果我們排除受 EAR 影響的業務，ATM 收入同比增長 26% 或同比增長 45%。 ATM利潤率、毛利率為26.5%，接近27%的歷史峰值水平。 ASE 綜合收入同比增長 26%。 ASE 綜合營業利潤率較年初設定的 2.5% 至 3% 的目標提高了 3.6 個百分點。所以總的來說，21 年是個好年頭。

We have seen broad based growth in all sectors with momentum that carry over to at least 2022. For example, the 2021 wirebond revenue grew 36%. We continue to see the wirebond to be fully loaded. And we do expect wirebond revenue in 2022 will achieve double digit growth. Even with the EAR impact, which was very significant in test business, the 2021 test revenue grew 12% year-over-year. We do expect the test business in 2022 without the EAR impact, the growth rate will double from the 2021 level. So we do expect the testing business to play more of an important role for our business in 2022 and beyond.

我們已經看到所有行業的廣泛增長勢頭至少持續到 2022 年。例如，2021 年引線鍵合收入增長了 36%。我們繼續看到引線鍵合滿載。我們確實預計 2022 年的引線鍵合收入將實現兩位數的增長。即使在測試業務中受到非常重要的 EAR 影響，2021 年的測試收入仍同比增長 12%。我們確實預計 2022 年的測試業務不受 EAR 影響，增長率將比 2021 年的水平翻一番。因此，我們確實希望測試業務在 2022 年及以後為我們的業務發揮更重要的作用。

Advanced packaging based on the customers requirement, we're seeing more complexity and more demand. In 2021, we have seen the advanced packaging revenue grew 23% year-over-year. We do expect the growth rate in 2022 to be better than the number, which is another important sign that we're migrating more mix to the testing business as well as advanced packaging business, while we're maintaining the established base in wirebond and everything else. ATM automotive revenue grew over 60% year-over-year. The momentum will continue in 2022 and beyond. The good news is we do expect to achieve $1 billion automotive revenue in 2022, which will be a significant milestone for ATM business.

基於客戶要求的先進封裝，我們看到了更多的複雜性和更多的需求。 2021年，我們看到先進封裝收入同比增長23%。我們確實預計 2022 年的增長率將好於數字，這是另一個重要跡象，表明我們正在將更多組合遷移到測試業務以及先進封裝業務，同時我們正在保持引線鍵合和所有方面的既定基礎別的。 ATM 汽車收入同比增長超過 60%。這種勢頭將在 2022 年及以後繼續。好消息是，我們確實預計 2022 年汽車收入將達到 10 億美元，這將是 ATM 業務的一個重要里程碑。

Let me talk about the 2022 outlook. We do expect the revenue and margin to continue to see improvement in 2022. Our demands and forecast indicating a very strong 2022. And Joseph will talk about the specific guidance for Q1. Again, we're seeing a better than seasonal Q1, followed by our traditional pattern of quarter-to-quarter growth for the remainder of the year. The logic semiconductor industry without a better number, we believe will be in the 5% - 10% range for reference. And our ATM revenue year-over-year growth should be 2x of that. And we have been following this traditional pattern for at least the last 15 years, and 2022 will be of no exception. And the reason being, market demand is very strong, and we are seeing signs of IDM outsourcing accelerating.

讓我談談2022年的前景。我們確實預計 2022 年的收入和利潤率將繼續改善。我們的需求和預測表明 2022 年非常強勁。約瑟夫將談論第一季度的具體指導。同樣，我們看到第一季度好於季節性，其次是我們在今年剩餘時間內的傳統季度增長模式。邏輯半導體行業沒有更好的數字，我們相信會在 5% - 10% 的範圍內供參考。我們的 ATM 收入同比增長應該是 2 倍。至少在過去的 15 年裡，我們一直遵循這種傳統模式，2022 年也不例外。原因是市場需求非常強勁，我們看到IDM外包加速的跡象。

The pricing environment is friendly and stable with a higher mix of testing and advanced packaging business. And our margin, also our position will continue to be improved. We are expanding the SiP customer portfolio. And we're happy to report that in 2022, our new SiP customers with a diversified background from all sectors. For the first time, our new SiP customers revenue will break the $0.5 billion mark in 2022. It's another good news. The 2022 ATM growth and operating margin should surpass historical peak levels set in 2014. Consolidated operating margin to see further improvement versus 2021.

定價環境友好而穩定，測試和先進封裝業務的組合更高。而我們的利潤，也是我們的地位將繼續提高。我們正在擴大 SiP 客戶組合。我們很高興地報告，在 2022 年，我們的新 SiP 客戶擁有來自各個領域的多元化背景。 2022 年，我們的新 SiP 客戶收入將首次突破 5 億美元大關。這是另一個好消息。 2022 年的 ATM 增長和營業利潤率應超過 2014 年設定的歷史峰值水平。與 2021 年相比，綜合營業利潤率將進一步改善。

Next page, let me comment a little bit on the industry. We do see a solid outlook for year 2022. Capacity and supply constraint. Last year, I commented in Q1 time frame that sometime in 2023, we will see the a holistic balance of the supply versus demand. But right now, we believe the capacity and supply constraint will last maybe beyond 2023. Scale, technology leadership, flexibility and proven record for the past 2 years is making ASE an indispensable manufacturing partner. And we're gaining trust, support from customers and which is signified by the long-term service agreement as well as the design in a socket that we have been receiving for the last 2 years, particularly.

下一頁，讓我稍微評論一下這個行業。我們確實看到了 2022 年的穩健前景。產能和供應受限。去年，我在第一季度的時間框架中評論說，在 2023 年的某個時候，我們將看到供需的整體平衡。但目前，我們認為產能和供應限制可能會持續到 2023 年之後。過去 2 年的規模、技術領先地位、靈活性和可靠的記錄使 ASE 成為不可或缺的製造合作夥伴。我們正在獲得客戶的信任和支持，這體現在長期服務協議以及過去 2 年來我們一直收到的插座設計中。

Customer long range service agreement are in place through 2023. We will continue to discuss, collaborate with our customer and see how do we extend this beyond as we're building additional capacity for our loyal customers. IDM outsourcing ratio accelerating. We do see healthy growth of HPC, automotive, 5G migration, IoT and also the expanding silicon content leading to a quite robust end market environment, so we are optimistic about the long-term prospects.

客戶長期服務協議將持續到 2023 年。我們將繼續與我們的客戶討論、合作，並了解我們如何將其擴展至此之外，因為我們正在為我們的忠實客戶建立額外的能力。 IDM外包比例加快。我們確實看到了高性能計算、汽車、5G 遷移、物聯網的健康增長，以及不斷擴大的矽含量，導致終端市場環境相當穩健，因此我們對長期前景持樂觀態度。

I would like to comment a little bit on what ASE is doing to prepare for years beyond 2022. We have started a new round of smart factory, building a infrastructure investment. As you know, building takes the longest time and the smart manufacturing environment, infrastructure does take a long time to develop. In 2021, 2022, as well as in years beyond, we have launched a new wave of smart manufacturing building. The purpose of that is working with our customer, we do believe that in 2023 and beyond, there will be impending wave of wafer supply coming. In case the market demands a much higher volume of wafer and silicon devices supply, ASE should be ready for that.

我想談談日月光為 2022 年以後的幾年所做的準備。我們已經啟動了新一輪的智能工廠，建設基礎設施投資。如您所知，建設需要的時間最長，而智能製造環境、基礎設施的發展確實需要很長時間。 2021年、2022年以及以後的幾年，我們掀起了新一輪的智能製造建設浪潮。這樣做的目的是與我們的客戶合作，我們相信在 2023 年及以後，將會有即將到來的晶圓供應浪潮。如果市場需要大量的晶圓和矽器件供應，ASE 應該做好準備。

With that, I would like to pass the -- to Joseph. Joseph?

有了這個，我想把--傳給約瑟夫。約瑟夫？

Thank you, Tien. Let me start with a bit of a recap of what we did on our China sites. In fact, we actually sold a 6 major manufacturing sites in China, and the deal was closed in December -- on December 16, 2021. The total value of these sites that we sold or the combined enterprise value was about $1.46 billion. And as Ken mentioned earlier on, after adding the cash balance and deducting the existing liabilities or debts that we have, the total consideration was $1.33 billion. Now the disposed sites accounted for about 7.6% of our overall ATM revenues in 2021 and about 4.5% of our consolidated revenues in 2021 as well.

謝謝你，田。讓我先回顧一下我們在中國網站上所做的事情。事實上，我們實際上在中國出售了 6 個主要生產基地，交易於 12 月 - 2021 年 12 月 16 日完成。我們出售的這些基地的總價值或企業價值總和約為 14.6 億美元。正如肯之前提到的，在加上現金餘額並扣除我們現有的負債或債務後，總代價為 13.3 億美元。現在，處置的站點占我們 2021 年 ATM 總收入的約 7.6%，也占我們 2021 年合併收入的約 4.5%。

EPS wise, it generated about below TWD 0.80 in 2021. And the purpose of doing this transaction is really to better realign our resources and to focus on the investments in our mega sites, which is mainly SPIL Suzhou to continue to address the China opportunity. In fact, in this year, we're expecting very high growth in our Suzhou sites, SPIL Suzhou site, and as a result of revenue coming from expanded customer base mostly the Chinese customers in the region. And this transaction does provide us with more cash resource for our continuing organic expansion as well as we seize the opportunities, we will make further strategic investments to enhance our overall market position.

就每股收益而言，它在 2021 年的收益約為 0.80 新台幣。而進行這項交易的目的實際上是為了更好地調整我們的資源並專注於對我們的大型站點的投資，這主要是 SPIL 蘇州繼續抓住中國機會。事實上，在今年，我們預計我們的蘇州工廠、SPIL 蘇州工廠的增長將非常高，而且收入來自擴大的客戶群，主要是該地區的中國客戶。而此次交易確實為我們的持續有機擴張提供了更多的現金資源，我們將抓住機遇，進行進一步的戰略投資，以提升我們的整體市場地位。

Now with that, let me give you a bit of a first quarter outlook. Based on the current business outlook and exchange rate assumptions, management projects overall performance for the first quarter of '22 to be a very strong quarter to start with and with the details as follows. Now on a pro forma basis, in U.S. dollar terms, our ATM first quarter 2022 business will slightly be impacted around 4% because of the lower working days in the quarter and also the SiP seasonality. That really implies that the -- aside from the SiP business, our overall ATM business continue to be running at full loading and the momentum is continuing throughout the year.

現在，讓我給你一些第一季度的展望。根據當前的業務前景和匯率假設，管理層預計 22 年第一季度的整體表現將是一個非常強勁的季度，具體如下。現在，以美元計價，我們的 ATM 2022 年第一季度業務將受到 4% 左右的小幅影響，因為該季度的工作日減少以及 SiP 的季節性。這確實意味著——除了 SiP 業務外，我們的整體 ATM 業務繼續滿負荷運行，並且這一勢頭全年都在持續。

On a pro forma basis, our ATM first quarter 2022 gross margin should be slightly higher than our second quarter '21 gross margin. The margin will be slightly -- will be a bit lower than the fourth quarter, largely because of the -- first of all, of course, the lower revenue, but more so on the increase of labor cost and also depreciation as we continue to plan for the support our overall business going forward.

在備考基礎上，我們的 ATM 2022 年第一季度毛利率應略高於我們 21 年第二季度的毛利率。利潤率將略低於第四季度，主要是因為——首先，當然是收入下降，但更多的是勞動力成本的增加和折舊，因為我們繼續計劃支持我們的整體業務向前發展。

In the terms of EMS, first quarter business level should be similar with the quarterly average of full year 2021, which follows a normal seasonality pattern. In terms of operating margin, it should be close to the average of second and third quarter '21 operating margin as the -- we continue to run our EMS business following the seasonality pattern. Now a bit of a comment on the -- okay.

EMS方面，第一季度業務水平應與2021年全年季度平均水平相近，遵循正常的季節性規律。就營業利潤率而言，它應該接近 21 年第二季度和第三季度營業利潤率的平均值，因為我們繼續按照季節性模式經營我們的 EMS 業務。現在對--好吧。

And this is the guidance on the first quarter, and we will now open the floor for questions. Thank you.

這是第一季度的指導，我們現在開始提問。謝謝你。

(Operator Instructions) We have a question from Randy Abrams of Credit Suisse. Randy?

（操作員說明）我們有一個來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams 的問題。蘭迪？

Okay. Yes, sorry. Okay. I'm unmuted. Okay. Yes. I wanted to ask the first question on the new view that you have further out. So extending the period of tightness in the industry beyond 2023. We have seen more CapEx announcements from the supply side. So I'm curious on your commentary, what drove the change? And then how much it's reflection of what you're seeing supply, if that's a commentary on the front end, the foundry, the back end or substrate or if it's a commentary on demand side, a different confidence on the demand driver?

好的。是的，對不起。好的。我不靜音。好的。是的。我想就您進一步提出的新觀點提出第一個問題。因此，將行業的緊縮期延長到 2023 年之後。我們從供應方面看到了更多的資本支出公告。所以我很好奇你的評論，是什麼推動了這種變化？那麼它在多大程度上反映了你所看到的供應，如果這是對前端、代工廠、後端或基板的評論，或者如果是對需求方面的評論，對需求驅動的不同信心？

The comment that I made was referring to a holistic supply chain line balance. What we're seeing today is the foundries are making major investment. The IDMs are making the front-end investment. The OSAT industry, equipment industry, the substrate industry, lead frame, epoxy, everyone has increased the CapEx. But judging on the fact that the equipment delivery are [stooped and] slow comparing to historical norm. And that typically is the first indicator that we're not back to normal yet.

我發表的評論是指整體供應鏈線的平衡。我們今天看到的是代工廠正在進行重大投資。 IDM 正在進行前端投資。 OSAT行業、設備行業、基板行業、引線框架、環氧樹脂，大家都增加了CapEx。但從設備交付與歷史標準相比[彎腰和]緩慢的事實來看。這通常是我們尚未恢復正常的第一個指標。

The second indicator is among out of the whips, sometimes we're waiting for 8-inch wafer, sometimes we're waiting for 12-inch wafer for different technology nodes. And sometimes, we're waiting for substrates of different technologies, sometimes we're waiting for lead frames. So we do not see a holistic squareness of all of the material equipment capacity balance versus the overall demand. Now in 2021 time frame, we were calculating we believe in '23, sometime in 2023, we should see the squareness of that. Based on the last year, as was out of the conversation with our supplier and customers, now we believe that line balance on the holistic view will be beyond 2023. For example, some of the technology substrates, we are confident that the demand will be oversupplied for a much longer than 2023, just as an example.

第二個指標在鞭子之中，有時我們在等待 8 英寸晶圓，有時我們在等待不同技術節點的 12 英寸晶圓。有時，我們正在等待不同技術的基板，有時我們正在等待引線框架。因此，我們沒有看到所有材料設備產能平衡與整體需求的整體比例。現在在 2021 年的時間範圍內，我們計算我們相信 23 年，在 2023 年的某個時候，我們應該看到它的正確性。基於去年，正如我們與供應商和客戶的對話，現在我們認為整體觀點上的生產線平衡將在 2023 年之後。例如，一些技術基板，我們有信心需求將是例如，供過於求的時間比 2023 年要長得多。

Okay. Great. That's helpful. And the other question on the IDM. And you mentioned about the CapEx that we're seeing the investment and a few -- I mean, TI was one that talked about raising the ratio. And I thought all the time they had mainly focused on outsourcing that. But they're mentioning the ratio. A few other IDMs are talking about actually adding capacity as well to back end. So I'm curious your comments for IDM, are they seeing that as a fix over the next year as they try to put in capacity? Are you seeing a different trend that's multiyear for behavior of IDM because some of their tone on calls sound like they want to also do more just for self-sufficiency, add some more capacity on the back end?

好的。偉大的。這很有幫助。關於 IDM 的另一個問題。你提到了我們看到的投資和一些資本支出——我的意思是，TI 是一個談論提高比率的公司。我一直認為他們主要專注於外包。但他們提到了這個比例。其他一些 IDM 正在談論實際增加後端容量。所以我很好奇你對 IDM 的評論，他們是否將其視為明年的解決方案，因為他們試圖增加容量？您是否看到了 IDM 行為多年以來的不同趨勢，因為他們在通話時的某些語氣聽起來他們還想為自給自足做更多事情，在後端增加更多容量？

I'll try to be more careful in making this comment because yes, you're asking a very sensitive questions, right? Now the -- based on our discussion as was news release, in general, the U.S.-based IBM, they will declare they would reduce their outsourcing. But let's put that comment in a separate category. Let's focus on everybody else. In all other geography, no one comments on increasing the internal or everyone agree in public a specific milestone to talk about increasing outsourcing ratio. What that is telling us is as the foundry and the OSAT world is gaining technology positioning, I won't even use the word leadership, but you can make that judgment yourself.

我會在發表這個評論時更加小心，因為是的，你問的是一個非常敏感的問題，對吧？現在 - 根據我們的討論以及新聞發布，一般來說，總部位於美國的 IBM 將宣布他們將減少外包。但是，讓我們將該評論放在一個單獨的類別中。讓我們專注於其他所有人。在所有其他地區，沒有人評論增加內部或每個人都在公開場合同意一個特定的里程碑來談論增加外包率。這告訴我們的是，隨著代工廠和 OSAT 世界正在獲得技術定位，我什至不會使用領導這個詞，但你可以自己做出判斷。

The economic scale and in the last 2 years, the foundry world has clearly demonstrate a flexibility and agility that the IBM cannot match. Otherwise, we will not have the automotive issues until today. So if you judge on all of the facts and you fast forward, you look at the total dollar amount of CapEx of old company, IBM included, what is the percentage they want to put in into the design, service. As was front end, what is the percentage they want to allocate to the back end. It is not difficult to go figure out because the competition is multidimensional.

經濟規模和過去 2 年中，代工界已經清楚地展示了 IBM 無法比擬的靈活性和敏捷性。否則，直到今天我們才會遇到汽車問題。因此，如果您根據所有事實進行判斷并快速前進，您會查看包括 IBM 在內的老公司的資本支出總額，他們希望在設計和服務中投入的百分比是多少。與前端一樣，他們想要分配給後端的百分比是多少。不難弄清楚，因為競爭是多維的。

You do a parametric study in the OSAT world with the scale, with the fungibility, agility and flexibility and the supply chain or the cost [in fact] and the economic benefit. How do you judge upon the outsourcing ratio? Now the U.S. based, I do -- we do understand politically the -- and also incentive wise, there are reasons. But at the end of the world, this world is competing -- semiconductor industry is competing on efficiency, right? So that's why we have a solid trend, socket, complexity that we're leveraging the foundry world of technology, and we're trying to position ASE as well as our partner and our customer. And I think the outsourcing ratio absolutely is increasing.

你在 OSAT 世界中進行參數研究，具有規模、可替代性、敏捷性和靈活性以及供應鍊或成本 [事實上] 和經濟效益。您如何判斷外包比例？現在總部設在美國，我確實——我們確實在政治上理解——而且在激勵方面，這是有原因的。但是在世界的盡頭，這個世界在競爭——半導體行業在競爭效率，對吧？所以這就是為什麼我們有一個穩固的趨勢、插座、複雜性，我們正在利用代工技術世界，我們正在努力定位 ASE 以及我們的合作夥伴和我們的客戶。而且我認為外包比例絕對在增加。

I mean, you can use the same argument. Go back to 25 or 30 years ago, how this outsourcing started. And today, in the outsourcing world, much stronger, much more flexible and even politically, it makes a whole lot more sense. So I think the outsourcing ratio per se, it will increase. But geographically, where do you do the manufacturing, how do you manage the logistic route, that can be discussed, right? I mean it's a long answer, but I have to answer this carefully because it's very politically sensitive. But I feel obligated to give you my best perspective, explaining the difference between the declaration or the sentiment and the reality.

我的意思是，您可以使用相同的參數。回到 25 或 30 年前，這種外包是如何開始的。而今天，在外包世界中，更加強大、更加靈活，甚至在政治上，它變得更加有意義。所以我認為外包比例本身會增加。但是從地理上講，你在哪裡製造，你如何管理物流路線，這可以討論，對吧？我的意思是這是一個很長的答案，但我必須仔細回答這個問題，因為它在政治上非常敏感。但我覺得有義務給你我最好的觀點，解釋聲明或情緒與現實之間的區別。

Okay. No, and I appreciate that. And I feel on their comments, they're mentioning back end, there's an efficiency to the clusters in Asia. A question on the CapEx. If you could give a sense now also with the growth outlook and confidence, the view relative to -- I think last year, it was about $2 billion equipment CapEx. How you're seeing that? And then it sounds like the mix, (inaudible) test with bonder decent but coming down from last year.

好的。不，我很感激。我覺得他們的評論，他們提到了後端，亞洲的集群有效率。關於資本支出的問題。如果您現在也可以對增長前景和信心有所了解，那麼相對於我認為去年的觀點，大約是 20 億美元的設備資本支出。你怎麼看？然後聽起來像是混合，（聽不清）測試與邦德不錯，但比去年有所下降。

Well, this year, the CapEx dollar amount will be either equal or more than $2 billion. And we will have a different mix, maybe more towards the testing, maybe more towards the advanced technology, but we have to wait for how the year has evolved. All right. And then we just move the dynamically. But the comment that I was making is, in addition to the equipment CapEx, we're spending more on the building and the smart factory and the infrastructure of CapEx. And that number we normally don't report it.

那麼，今年，資本支出金額將等於或超過 20 億美元。而且我們會有不同的組合，也許更多的是針對測試，也許更多的是針對先進技術，但我們必須等待這一年的發展。好的。然後我們只是動態地移動。但我的評論是，除了設備資本支出外，我們還在建築、智能工廠和資本支出基礎設施上投入更多。而這個數字我們通常不會報告。

Now the reason why we're doing that is, it shows our aspiration as for -- as our customers' collective confidence, they really would like us to get ready. In case 2023, the market demand doesn't come down and there's a surge of wafer and the line balance is better, you will have a lot of back end demand. And then the question is now who will have the most readiness, flexibility and also the willingness to support that surge.

現在我們這樣做的原因是，它表明了我們的願望——作為我們客戶的集體信心，他們真的希望我們做好準備。萬一2023年市場需求不降，矽片激增，線路平衡好，後端需求會很大。然後現在的問題是，誰將最有準備、最靈活，也最願意支持這種激增。

Okay. And the last one, it's a couple of kind of housekeeping, but a few metrics. One is the wirebond and tester. If you could (inaudible) how many actually sold with the venture because it did drop, so trying to see how many you added or sold. And then a couple of others I was curious. Since you gave us the 2022 or SiP and auto, if you could give the base for 2021? And then the other housekeeping, because of the onetime gain, how do you see the payout because you have that sale in terms of the dividend?

好的。最後一個，這是一種家政服務，但有一些指標。一種是引線鍵合和測試儀。如果您可以（聽不清）該合資企業實際出售了多少，因為它確實下降了，那麼請嘗試查看您添加或出售了多少。然後還有幾個我很好奇。既然您給了我們 2022 年或 SiP 和汽車，您能否提供 2021 年的基礎？然後是另一個內務管理，由於一次性收益，您如何看待支付，因為您有股息方面的銷售？

Let me comment on the -- a few question. Then I'll pass the floor to Joseph for the payout. The automotive in '21, the base was $700 million.

讓我評論幾個問題。然後我將發言權交給 Joseph 支付。 21 年的汽車，基數為 7 億美元。

ATM.

自動取款機。

ATM. Sorry, ATM. Now, the wirebonder, the -- roughly, I think we add 4,000 wirebonder in '21.

自動取款機。對不起，提款機。現在，銲線機，我想我們在 21 年增加了 4,000 台銲線機。

No. I'm…

不，我是…

Sorry.

對不起。

Let me give you the…

讓我給你...

Joseph, why don't you talk about it?

約瑟夫，你為什麼不談論它？

Yes. At the end of fourth quarter, our total wirebond account was about $25,800. And that number is actually reduced from third quarter, given the fact that we sold the 4 factory of the China sites. And the number of boundaries that we saw is about 4 -- total, it's over 4,000 units, 4,221 to be exact. And in terms of testers, our total comp at the end of fourth quarter is 4,890 testers in the quarter. Along with the sale of the sites, the testers that we sold out is about 15 -- 1,522 units of testers that we sold out.

是的。在第四季度末，我們的引線鍵合賬戶總額約為 25,800 美元。考慮到我們出售了中國工廠的 4 家工廠，這個數字實際上比第三季度有所減少。我們看到的邊界數量約為 4——總共超過 4,000 個單位，準確地說是 4,221 個。在測試人員方面，我們在第四季度末的總人數是本季度的 4,890 名測試人員。隨著網站的銷售，我們售罄的測試儀約為 15 - 1,522 台測試儀。

Okay. And then the last one was the -- or last 2, the SiP. I think $500 million, if you have with SiP other customers was -- and then also your view on the payout, just factoring that -- the big onetime gain.

好的。最後一個是 - 或最後兩個，SiP。我認為 5 億美元，如果您與 SiP 有其他客戶 - 然後還有您對支出的看法，只是考慮到這一點 - 一次性的巨大收益。

I'm sorry.

對不起。

The SiP revenue will break the $500 million at the -- in 2022 [overall].

SiP 收入將在 2022 年（總體）突破 5 億美元。

Okay. And what was that in 2021?

好的。 2021 年那是什麼？

In 2021, I think the revenue from new customers was about 330 -- $240 million.

2021 年，我認為來自新客戶的收入約為 330 至 2.4 億美元。

And the payout?

和支付？

In terms of the dividend payout, we do not plan to have a special dividend payout. I think the -- for this year, the dividend will continue to be paid out from the earnings from the earnings that we made for the year from operation. And the payout ratio will remain at about 60% to 65%.

在派息方面，我們不打算派發特別派息。我認為 - 今年，股息將繼續從我們當年的運營收益中支付。派息率將保持在60%至65%左右。

Okay. And that includes the gain, like you'll pay out a proportion even on the additional amount for the sales?

好的。這包括收益，就像你會為銷售的額外金額支付一定比例？

No. That does not included the special gain that we got through the transaction. I mean, it will be paid out from the operational earnings that we made.

不，這不包括我們通過交易獲得的特殊收益。我的意思是，它將從我們的運營收入中支付。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is from Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。

Yes. A couple of questions from my side. I think, obviously, second half 2020 and 2021, we have seen some degree of price adjustment in -- especially in the older technologies like wirebonding, but also in some of the advanced packaging. If we think about the roughly 10% to 20% pro forma growth that you're guiding for, could we talk a little bit about how much of that is roughly units? How much of that is roughly pricing? Are we expecting any further adjustments in price or we think pricing is basically going to be largely settled and kind of stable from here on?

是的。我這邊有幾個問題。我認為，顯然，在 2020 年下半年和 2021 年，我們已經看到了一定程度的價格調整——尤其是在引線鍵合等較老的技術中，而且在一些先進的封裝中。如果我們考慮一下您指導的大約 10% 到 20% 的備考增長，我們能否談談其中有多少是大致單位？其中有多少是大致定價？我們是否預計價格會進一步調整，或者我們認為從現在開始價格基本上會基本穩定並趨於穩定？

Well, I think it's very, very difficult to break it out like even in volume growth as well as say, price increases. I think the so-called pricing adjustment is really across -- to a very different -- many different ways of adjusting our pricing, including some from expediting fees, some from discontinuing discounts, the longer-term agreements and so on and so forth. There are many ways of dealing with the pricing issue. I think the bulk of the growth will still come from revenue, from the volume increase that we have and also the different product mix that we generated in the year. But in terms of overall pricing environment, I think 2022 will continue to be what of -- we call the pricing friendly year for us. And at this point, we're seeing very, very stable pricing. And what we meant by friendly pricing is really an environment that can -- a pricing environment that can help us better protect and/or improve our return.

好吧，我認為即使在銷量增長以及價格上漲方面，也很難打破它。我認為所謂的定價調整實際上是跨越 - 非常不同 - 調整我們定價的許多不同方式，包括一些來自加速費用，一些來自終止折扣，長期協議等等。有很多方法可以處理定價問題。我認為大部分增長仍將來自收入，來自我們擁有的銷量增長以及我們在這一年產生的不同產品組合。但就整體定價環境而言，我認為 2022 年仍將是我們稱之為定價友好年的一年。在這一點上，我們看到了非常非常穩定的定價。我們所說的友好定價實際上是一個能夠幫助我們更好地保護和/或提高我們回報的定價環境。

Understood. So if we look at CapEx, now I think we're expecting $2 billion or more CapEx in 2022 higher than where we were maybe middle of last year, given the increased confidence in the market. We have seen then some of your Chinese peers are starting to invest even further, especially for their outside China capacity by like 40% to 50% increase in CapEx. And how do we think about competitive competition with some of these China companies, especially their competition in advanced packaging? Are we starting to see more kind of more kind of competition for future bids? Obviously, currently, things are clearly tight. Around a year back, Dr. Yu, you had mentioned that some of the China capacity or China market-related demand is starting to become a little bit more segregated and you're kind of not really competing in the same markets. Is that still the case? Or are we starting to see that there is still some linkage between what we are seeing in China OSAT because some of those companies are also seeing some utilization in (inaudible).

明白了。因此，如果我們看一下資本支出，現在我認為，鑑於市場信心增強，我們預計 2022 年的資本支出將比去年年中的水平高出 20 億美元或更多。我們已經看到你們的一些中國同行開始進一步投資，特別是對於他們在中國以外的產能，資本支出增加了 40% 到 50%。我們如何看待與這些中國公司的競爭，尤其是在先進封裝領域的競爭？我們是否開始看到更多種類的未來競標競爭？顯然，目前，事情顯然很緊張。大約一年前，於博士，您曾提到中國的一些產能或中國市場相關需求開始變得更加孤立，您在同一個市場上並沒有真正競爭。還是這樣嗎？或者我們是否開始看到我們在中國 OSAT 看到的情況之間仍有一些聯繫，因為其中一些公司也看到了一些應用（聽不清）。

I think this is natural for our China competitor under the support of the industrial market as well as the government to build up capacity because the midterm or even the short-term projected is to recreate a self-sufficient ecosystem in China per se. So many of the equipment as well as the capacity build up in China, they're mainly target at the internal consumption in China. I commented on the parallel universe. I think we're seeing the beginning of that. For example, the -- our long range forecast from customers primarily comes from the non-China based. The technology requirement is different. The end market, the system is different. Of course, there are overlaps into the China, the consumer market, but there are a lot of market that the -- we have no access to.

我認為這對我們的中國競爭對手在工業市場和政府的支持下進行產能建設是很自然的，因為中期甚至短期的預測是在中國本身重建一個自給自足的生態系統。這麼多的設備以及在中國建設的產能，它們主要針對的是中國的內部消費。我評論了平行宇宙。我認為我們正在看到它的開始。例如，我們對客戶的長期預測主要來自非中國客戶。技術要求不同。終端市場，制度不同。當然，中國消費市場也有重疊，但有很多市場——我們無法進入。

And therefore, we're not privileged to understand some of the long range capacity requirement. We are monitoring the situation closely. For example, we do understand some of our OSAT competitor continue to order the -- some equipment. We do have a total the bird's eye view on where the equipment are going. However, at this point in time, we don't believe the China competitor based on technology as was access to the design of our key customer, we don't believe that the competition is anywhere near, right? But we are mindful of that. But so far, we think we do have a clear leadership and also a clear firewall between -- not just on ASE, but ASE customer base versus the China base.

因此，我們沒有特權了解一些遠程容量要求。我們正在密切關注局勢。例如，我們確實了解我們的一些 OSAT 競爭對手繼續訂購一些設備。我們確實對設備的去向有一個全面的鳥瞰圖。但是，在這個時間點上，我們不相信基於技術的中國競爭對手能夠獲得我們主要客戶的設計，我們不相信競爭就在附近，對吧？但我們注意到這一點。但到目前為止，我們認為我們確實有明確的領導力和明確的防火牆 - 不僅在 ASE 上，而且在 ASE 客戶群與中國基地之間。

Got it. Maybe one last question from my side. When you talk about undersupply or supply demand not coming into balance into probably 2023 and beyond, what is your underlying industry growth expectation through this period, given I think in '22 itself, we are expecting to see the logic semi growth normalizing back to the 5% to 10% kind of growth rate compared to like the 20-plus percent growth or 15%, 20% growth that we saw last year?

知道了。也許我身邊的最後一個問題。當您談到可能在 2023 年及以後出現供應不足或供需不平衡時，您對這一時期的潛在行業增長預期是什麼，鑑於我認為在 22 年本身，我們預計邏輯半增長將恢復到正常水平與我們去年看到的 20% 以上或 15%、20% 的增長相比，是 5% 到 10% 的增長率嗎？

I mean we're the last person to be able to tell you what the overall semiconductor can do. I mean we don't know any better. We always use 5% to 10% like everybody else. And I think there is a demand. The COVID is still very much in place, and we are seeing the continuation of 5G migration. And the PC number, they went up and it did not have the kind of phenomenal growth. However, it's not coming down. And if you want to order any auto today, your waiting time is 6 to 9 months. So we clearly know at the channel inventory system manufacturers, we do not have enough components to ship what the consumer wants, and that's a fact. It doesn't matter how we project the macro economy and all of the potentials.

我的意思是我們是最後一個能夠告訴你整個半導體可以做什麼的人。我的意思是我們不知道更好。我們總是像其他人一樣使用 5% 到 10%。我認為有需求。 COVID仍然非常到位，我們看到5G遷移的繼續。而PC數量，他們上升了，並沒有那種驚人的增長。但是，它並沒有下降。如果您今天想訂購任何汽車，您的等待時間是 6 到 9 個月。因此，我們清楚地知道，在渠道庫存系統製造商處，我們沒有足夠的組件來運送消費者想要的東西，這是事實。我們如何預測宏觀經濟和所有潛力並不重要。

But in the market, we know we don't -- we're not shipping enough components. We're managing the squareness of the line balance. But today, the fact is we are short of wafer, we're short of substrate. We're short of lead frame. For different customer, we're short of different things. Under a very complex logistics and the line balance maneuver, I think all of us are being trained, how do we grow our business and satisfy the end customer demand to the best of our capability. Along the way, you will have the expedite fee, you have a commoditized surcharge. The -- you have all kinds of things, and that's why it's adding to the pricing increase.

但在市場上，我們知道我們沒有——我們沒有運送足夠的組件。我們正在管理線路平衡的方形度。但是今天，事實是我們缺少晶圓，我們缺少基板。我們缺少引線框架。對於不同的客戶，我們缺少不同的東西。在非常複雜的物流和線路平衡操作下，我認為我們所有人都在接受培訓，我們如何發展我們的業務並儘我們所能滿足最終客戶的需求。在此過程中，您將收取加急費，並收取商品化附加費。 - 你有各種各樣的東西，這就是為什麼它會增加價格上漲。

So overall, we think 2022, we need to struggle for another year. And the things are getting better. However, we're not seeing a line balance by far. I know we don't believe in 2023 you will see that line balance. Of course, the end market, the -- if there's any black swan or any kind of major impact that we won't be able to see. But based on all of our customers, the short-term and loan range forecast, the design pipeline and we look at the end market, the electric vehicle, IoT and smart manufacturing demand, we're quite optimistic, which is why Joseph and myself were giving all of you a solid, confident 2022 outlook. And we're trying to extend that a little bit beyond 2023. And we're building additional footprint in smart factory just in case 2023 and 2024, 29 new fabs, wafers are coming out. And if they need a back-end partner, at least yes, we are -- we have been inspired in the last few years to make investment, just to get ready for the next wave.

所以總的來說，我們認為2022年，我們需要再奮鬥一年。而且情況正在好轉。但是，到目前為止，我們還沒有看到線路平衡。我知道我們不相信在 2023 年你會看到這種平衡。當然，終端市場——如果有任何黑天鵝或任何我們無法看到的重大影響。但基於我們所有的客戶、短期和貸款範圍預測、設計管道以及我們對終端市場、電動汽車、物聯網和智能製造的需求，我們非常樂觀，這就是 Joseph 和我自己的原因為你們所有人提供了堅實、自信的 2022 年展望。我們正試圖將其擴展到 2023 年之後。我們正在智能工廠中建立更多的足跡，以防 2023 年和 2024 年，29 家新的晶圓廠、晶圓即將問世。如果他們需要一個後端合作夥伴，至少是的，我們是——在過去的幾年裡，我們受到啟發進行投資，為下一波浪潮做好準備。

I think, if I may comment. I think from a higher level perspective, a more linear kind of a growth pattern actually help us in terms of managing our overall business. It gives a better planning. And also the -- during the last year, I think the whole industry is scrambling and there's a lot of that that needs to break through and makes planning -- overall planning a very difficult task. I think this more linear type of a growth is -- does help the industry as a whole. And it certainly helps in outsourcing as well.

我想，如果我可以評論的話。我認為從更高層次的角度來看，一種更線性的增長模式實際上有助於我們管理我們的整體業務。它提供了更好的規劃。而且 - 在過去的一年裡，我認為整個行業都在爭先恐後，有很多需要突破並進行規劃 - 整體規劃是一項非常艱鉅的任務。我認為這種更線性的增長類型確實有助於整個行業。它當然也有助於外包。

Our next question is from Mr. [Bruce Lu].

我們的下一個問題來自 [Bruce Lu] 先生。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Great. Congrats for the great result. I think one thing management mentioned that strong growth in 2022. I just wanted to double check, is it like an apple-to-apple comparison or even you exclude your divestment in China and you still can generate like 2x of the semi growth? But the question I'm trying to ask here, another one is that you suggest that your testing business grows and is substantially higher than your wirebonding growth. Is that for the company-specific issue? Or is that for the market share issue? Or do you really see testing dollar content per devices has gone up?

好的。偉大的。祝賀偉大的結果。我認為管理層提到了 2022 年的強勁增長。我只是想仔細檢查一下，這是否像蘋果對蘋果的比較，或者即使你排除在中國的撤資，你仍然可以產生大約 2 倍的半增長？但是我在這裡要問的問題是，另一個問題是您建議您的測試業務增長並且大大高於您的引線鍵合增長。這是針對公司特定的問題嗎？還是為了市場份額問題？或者你真的看到每台設備的測試美元內容增加了嗎？

Well, let me comment on the testing business. The testing business have 2 components to it. The first one is we would like to do turnkey. And as the packaging becomes more complex, the testing naturally becomes proportionately more complex. In that scenario, it makes more sense for ASE to handle the packaging and the testing from design, qualification all the way to manufacturing and ramp up. Now under that understanding, strategically, ASE is increasing our appetite and aspiration to improve our testing business percentage. So I think I pretty much covered your question, right. That's that. Now in terms of the overall growth pro forma versus the China side, I will let Joseph answer that.

好吧，讓我評論一下測試業務。測試業務有兩個組成部分。第一個是我們想做交鑰匙。隨著包裝變得更加複雜，測試自然也相應地變得更加複雜。在這種情況下，ASE 處理從設計、認證一直到製造和量產的封裝和測試更有意義。現在，在這種理解下，從戰略上講，ASE 正在提高我們的興趣和願望，以提高我們的測試業務百分比。所以我想我幾乎涵蓋了你的問題，對吧。就是這樣。現在就與中國方面的整體增長預測而言，我會讓約瑟夫回答這個問題。

Yes. I think the growth that we're mentioning is really an apple-to-apple comparison, which means that we are based on the -- for last year's numbers, we're based on the pro forma numbers that we are giving, which excludes the China sites that we sold out.

是的。我認為我們提到的增長實際上是一個蘋果對蘋果的比較，這意味著我們基於 - 對於去年的數字，我們基於我們提供的備考數字，其中不包括我們售罄的中國網站。

So Joseph Tung, so to follow up that, we should expect a stronger growth for the final test versus wafer test, and we should see the testing business growth will be faster than the overall ATM business growth even for the coming years. Is that the right assumption?

因此，Joseph Tung，為了跟進這一點，我們應該期待最終測試與晶圓測試相比有更強勁的增長，我們應該看到測試業務的增長將快於整體 ATM 業務的增長，即使在未來幾年也是如此。這是正確的假設嗎？

The -- All right. I'm not going to get into the final test or wafers are, how do we do the breakdown. The overall testing business will grow at a faster than the corporate average, yes.

——好吧。我不打算進入最終測試或晶圓，我們如何進行擊穿。是的，整體測試業務的增長速度將高於公司平均水平。

On the -- even for the following years?

在——甚至在接下來的幾年裡？

Correct.

正確的。

That's right. That's great. The second thing is that I think there are several counter traditional wisdom thing at this moment. Maybe Tien, you can help us to understand it, right? We do see that end demand fluctuation, right? Some of the end demand is not as good as expected. And we do see some EMS overall inventory is going up. We also see your competitor was citing for wafer bank increase. However, we do not see the meaningful orders cut in the foundry side. We do see ATM -- at least your ATM business is still doing very, very good. So where is the discrepancy? And is that more of the company specific, like ATM is -- ASE is getting some market share? Or at the end of the day, the fundamental demand is still very strong and -- help us to understand the discrepancy.

這是正確的。那太棒了。第二件事是我認為目前有幾個反傳統智慧的事情。也許Tien，你可以幫助我們理解它，對吧？我們確實看到了最終需求波動，對吧？部分終端需求不如預期。我們確實看到一些 EMS 整體庫存在增加。我們還看到您的競爭對手引用了晶圓庫的增加。然而，我們沒有看到代工方面的有意義的訂單減少。我們確實看到了 ATM——至少您的 ATM 業務仍然做得非常非常好。那麼差異在哪裡呢？是否更多的是公司特有的，比如 ATM —— ASE 正在獲得一些市場份額？或者在一天結束時，基本面的需求仍然非常強勁，並且 - 幫助我們了解差異。

Okay. The -- well, I think you're talking about a short-term disconnect because in the marketplace, for example, you might see one area specifically, they're complaining about inventory, also the order drop. And you have some supplier, to talk about specifically, they're seeing slowdown in particular area. But at the same time, you have different company serving a different segment. And then the -- they will use the idle capacity from some of the idle sector and then the -- will support the higher growth. So I think that's the nature of the outsourcing industry. Now one of the key things that we have is we have 400 customers. Some customer are growing very, very fast. And the -- and some of the customer are growing in step function like the 50%, 100% a year.

好的。 - 好吧，我認為您是在談論短期脫節，因為例如，在市場上，您可能會看到一個具體領域，他們抱怨庫存，還有訂單下降。你有一些供應商，具體來說，他們看到特定領域的放緩。但與此同時，您有不同的公司服務於不同的細分市場。然後——他們將利用一些閒置部門的閒置產能，然後——將支持更高的增長。所以我認為這就是外包行業的本質。現在我們擁有的關鍵之一是我們有 400 名客戶。一些客戶的增長非常非常快。並且 - 和一些客戶正在逐步增長，例如每年 50%、100%。

So how do you support this kind of customer and you have that fungible capacity. So in the foundry world, there's some fungibility. In the assembly world, the fungibility is quite good. And therefore, we're writing between the foundry and the materials. So our job is to make sure we will support the high growth rate in that particular time frame to the best of what we can do. We do see some of our customer are having slow down, and they're going through inventory adjustment. But this is the kind of thing that we do for the last 30 years. A localized slowdown and seasonality for different customer and different sector is on rotational basis is very normal and very healthy. As a matter of fact, industry needs that break. If you look at 2020, the second half of 2021, we've been running straight line going nuts.

那麼你如何支持這種客戶並且你有這種可替代的能力。所以在鑄造界，有一些可替代性。在裝配世界中，可替代性非常好。因此，我們在代工廠和材料之間進行寫作。因此，我們的工作是確保我們將盡我們所能支持特定時間框架內的高增長率。我們確實看到我們的一些客戶正在放緩，他們正在調整庫存。但這是我們過去 30 年所做的事情。不同客戶和不同行業的局部放緩和季節性是輪換的，這是非常正常和非常健康的。事實上，行業需要這種突破。如果你看一下 2020 年，也就是 2021 年下半年，我們一直在瘋狂地奔跑。

So I think it's very healthy for the industry to go through some localized the adjustment -- and that's what we're seeing. And we're giving you a solid outlook because the overall forecast is very strong. I would not comment into which company, which sector, but overall, we have to manage the logistics, the line balance and the fungibility between all requirements. And I think the ASE has clearly demonstrated over the last few years that we're very good at that. And this is particularly appealing to IDMs, automotive as well as some of the very high growth like high-performance computing. They really would like to have the flexibility.

所以我認為對行業來說，進行一些本地化的調整是非常健康的——這就是我們所看到的。我們給你一個可靠的前景，因為整體預測非常強勁。我不會評論哪家公司，哪個部門，但總的來說，我們必須管理物流、生產線平衡和所有需求之間的可替代性。我認為 ASE 在過去幾年中清楚地證明了我們非常擅長這一點。這對 IDM、汽車以及一些高速增長的領域（如高性能計算）特別有吸引力。他們真的很想擁有靈活性。

I think the overall industry is -- will continue to grow because of the increasing IC contents as well as IC applications. And so I think the overall market will continue to grow. And ASE [in specifics] in particular, I think we are very confident that we are gaining market share, and we are taking the lion's share of the increasing IDM outsourcing. And with all the volume growth and all the industry trends that working to our favor, I think our growth is -- we're going to see a very healthy growth pattern in the foreseeable future for us.

我認為整個行業將繼續增長，因為 IC 內容和 IC 應用程序的增加。所以我認為整體市場將繼續增長。尤其是 ASE [具體而言]，我認為我們對我們正在獲得市場份額非常有信心，並且我們在 IDM 外包的增長中佔據了最大份額。隨著所有的銷量增長和所有對我們有利的行業趨勢，我認為我們的增長是——在可預見的未來，我們將看到一個非常健康的增長模式。

And just one additional comment here I feel obliged to explain is the new product design cycle takes 2 to 3 years. So for example, the -- if we're not prepositioning for capacity and technology ahead of the curve, the designing will not occur. But once you have the technology and the infrastructure, the early stage, then the design start coming in. They start developing the volume. I think we're all very used to it. So we are sitting in 2022. If we believe 2023 and 2024, there's going to be a recession, if we're going to say if we believe that, you probably announced that we're not investing CapEx, we're not building infrastructure. Then your customer will have concern, what is your aspiration? And what is your view and appetite for much longer term.

我覺得有必要在這裡解釋一個額外的評論是新產品設計週期需要 2 到 3 年。例如，如果我們不預先為容量和技術預先定位，設計就不會發生。但是一旦你有了技術和基礎設施，在早期階段，設計就開始了。他們開始開發體積。我想我們都已經習慣了。所以我們坐在 2022 年。如果我們相信 2023 年和 2024 年，就會出現衰退.那麼你的客戶就會關心，你的願望是什麼？你對更長期的看法和胃口是什麼？

So what helped us quickly is ask yourself the question, in the next 5 to 10 years, how do you see some semiconductor going up in total content or going down in total content. Everyone that I talked to believes in the next decade, semiconductor will provide more efficiency to the world. So it is going up. But if you see that, then you ask yourself just, well, how about in the next 5 years, and people move beyond the impending wave of semiconductor of the wafer in 2023, they believe that next 5 years is still good. If you believe in that, then the infrastructure investment, the capacity investment to us makes perfect business sense.

因此，快速幫助我們的是問自己一個問題，在未來 5 到 10 年，您如何看待某些半導體的總含量上升或下降。與我交談的每個人都相信，在未來十年，半導體將為世界提供更高的效率。所以它正在上漲。但是如果你看到了，那麼你就問問自己，好吧，未來 5 年怎麼樣，人們超越了即將到來的 2023 年晶圓半導體浪潮，他們認為未來 5 年仍然是好的。如果你相信這一點，那麼對我們的基礎設施投資和產能投資就具有完美的商業意義。

Then you start asking what is your service agreement, pricing, margin. How do you do granularity with each one of your customer and then that's what the management do. You do long term, midterm as well as quarter-to-quarter report. So I think there's a lot of disconnect or between the mid to very, very short term. But that's why when we talk about our view and our customers' view, sometimes are distinct -- different from the analyzed view -- the analysts view. So I'm just trying to offer you my perspective on the disconnect. I don't think there's a disconnect. But I think the timing difference between how -- when we talk about things, we don't talk about a quarter. We talk about 3 years design cycle, sector growth, content growth, electrical vehicle, autonomous driving, what kind of infrastructure do you need to have in place.

然後你開始詢問你的服務協議、定價、利潤是多少。您如何對每個客戶進行精細處理，然後這就是管理層所做的事情。你做長期、中期和季度報告。所以我認為中期到非常非常短期之間存在很多脫節。但這就是為什麼當我們談論我們的觀點和客戶的觀點時，有時是不同的——不同於分析的觀點——分析師的觀點。所以我只是想向您提供我對斷開連接的看法。我不認為有脫節。但我認為時間上的差異 - 當我們談論事情時，我們不談論四分之一。我們談論3年的設計週期，行業增長，內容增長，電動汽車，自動駕駛，你需要什麼樣的基礎設施到位。

So in 5 to 10 years' time, we can start pluck, part all of the design with you, expect the efficiency and the ASP for the kind of volume that the world needs. So I think the Taiwan and the ASE as a member of the cluster, we understand that obligation. That's why we're building technology and economic scale and all of the smart factory, the light-out factory, we're developing all this just to receive the next 5, 10 years of different waves the -- of semiconductor.

所以在 5 到 10 年的時間裡，我們可以開始採摘，與您一起設計部分的全部，期待世界需要的那種體積的效率和 ASP。所以我認為台灣和 ASE 作為集群的成員，我們理解這項義務。這就是為什麼我們要建立技術和經濟規模，以及所有智能工廠，熄燈工廠，我們正在開發這一切，只是為了迎接未來 5 年、10 年不同的半導體浪潮。

I think that this comment is actually pretty big between the investors and what industry we're seeing. So I think thanks again for the explanation. And then one last quick question from me is that we do see a increasing new customers, new revenue contribution from the SiP business. Do we expect a better, much better profitability moving forward given that the newer customer or newer projects?

我認為這個評論在投資者和我們所看到的行業之間實際上是相當大的。所以我想再次感謝您的解釋。然後我的最後一個快速問題是，我們確實看到了越來越多的新客戶，來自 SiP 業務的新收入貢獻。考慮到新客戶或新項目，我們是否期望獲得更好、更好的盈利能力？

The -- I'll give you the direction. The direction is yes. With a diversified portfolio and then the assuring of IP technology and equipment set. I mean that was the whole idea of building a strong base of SiP and then offer that library and the expertise to other customer. I mean, that's the whole idea of foundry and the outsourcing. And so the answer is yes.

——我給你指路。方向是肯定的。擁有多元化的產品組合，然後是 IP 技術和設備集的保證。我的意思是，這就是建立一個強大的 SiP 基礎，然後將該庫和專業知識提供給其他客戶的整個想法。我的意思是，這就是代工和外包的全部想法。所以答案是肯定的。

Next question is from Roland Shu of Citigroup.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Roland Shu。

Tien, I know you don't want to talk about for this quarterly view, but I still have a problem, a question on this first quarter IC ATM guidance. So look at your IC ATM revenue guidance, you guided the first quarter to decline by 4% quarter-on-quarter. However, if you look at in your -- of the foundries have been reported, they all guide first quarter revenue to up sequentially. And also some of your key customers also reported sequential up at first quarter. So for your IC ATM revenue to -- declined by 4% in first quarter. Again, is there any disconnection putting your IC ATM revenue with foundry or your key customers in your first quarter guidance?

Tien，我知道你不想談論這個季度的觀點，但我還有一個問題，關於這個第一季度 IC ATM 指南的問題。所以看看你的 IC ATM 收入指導，你指導第一季度環比下降 4%。但是，如果您查看已報告的代工廠，它們都會引導第一季度的收入按順序增長。您的一些主要客戶也報告在第一季度連續增長。因此，您的 IC ATM 收入在第一季度下降了 4%。同樣，在您的第一季度指導中，您的 IC ATM 收入與代工廠或您的主要客戶是否存在任何脫節？

By the way, there is no disconnect. I offer you 2 parameter to think about it. First of all, the -- there is a time lapse, right? They are typically between the 6 weeks' time. There is a time lapse between wafer to assembly. The -- therefore, okay, that will explain some of it. Now the second comment which Joseph already made it. Our assembly and test continue to run at a full run rate. Now we have like 2 fewer days, so that's like 2 percentage sum. And then the -- you do have seasonality between one of our largest customer on the SiP shipment. So when you look at revenue, they're reporting the -- whatever they have. They're selling for inventory or they're reporting the revenue of the last quarter. So our key customer revenue versus our shipment to them, you're off by 1 or 1.5 quarter. Foundry to assembly, you're maybe typically off by like a quarter. I'm not sure that explain it, but that's what we see.

順便說一句，沒有斷開連接。我為您提供 2 個參數來考慮它。首先， - 有一個時間流逝，對吧？它們通常在 6 週的時間之間。從晶圓到組裝之間存在時間間隔。 - 因此，好吧，這將解釋其中的一些內容。現在是約瑟夫已經發表的第二條評論。我們的組裝和測試繼續以全速運行。現在我們的天數減少了 2 天，所以這就像 2 個百分比的總和。然後 - 您確實在我們最大的客戶之一的 SiP 出貨量之間存在季節性。因此，當您查看收入時，他們會報告 - 無論他們擁有什麼。他們正在出售庫存，或者他們正在報告上一季度的收入。因此，我們的主要客戶收入與我們對他們的出貨量相比，您減少了 1 或 1.5 個季度。從鑄造廠到組裝廠，您通常可能會相差四分之一。我不確定這是否可以解釋，但這就是我們所看到的。

Yes. I agree. But the foundry and your customers also have 2 fewer base working days in first quarter. So is there any business from you have been kept by or constrained by the component shortage in first quarter?

是的。我同意。但代工廠和您的客戶在第一季度的基本工作日也減少了 2 個。那麼，您是否有任何業務在第一季度受到組件短缺的影響或限制？

I will not comment on the -- why the foundry is growing. And yes, we have component shortage that we already talk about it. We have a variety of line balance issue, which I will not comment here more on that.

我不會評論 - 為什麼鑄造廠正在增長。是的，我們已經談到了組件短缺問題。我們有各種各樣的線路平衡問題，我不會在這裡對此進行更多評論。

Okay. And my second question is -- yes, since Tien, you are on this call. So can you give us more colors on your progress for your 5G millimeter wave smart factory and also on the light-out factory? And how did they contribute to your profitability or efficiencies improvement last year? And what's the target for this year?

好的。我的第二個問題是 -- 是的，自從 Tien 以來，您正在接聽電話。那麼，您能否為您的 5G 毫米波智能工廠以及熄燈工廠的進展提供更多的顏色？去年，它們對您的盈利能力或效率提升有何貢獻？今年的目標是什麼？

Right. Last year, we talked about the -- our target was to build 27 light-out factory. And the -- we're happy to report that we have to build 25. And 2 of the factory was delayed because we couldn't get the equipment in time. Well, anyway, this year, we will have a new target for 37. The -- so we continue to add 10 light-out factories per year, all right. Maybe accelerating over time based on the customer volume, how do we aggregate the volume into smart factories. In terms of the overall efficiency, I think you can see that from overall operating margin improvement. And that to us continue to serve 2 purposes.

正確的。去年，我們談到了——我們的目標是建造 27 個熄燈工廠。而且——我們很高興地報告說我們必須建造 25 座。還有 2 座工廠被推遲，因為我們無法及時獲得設備。好吧，無論如何，今年，我們將有一個新的目標，為 37 個。所以我們每年繼續增加 10 個熄燈工廠，好吧。也許隨著時間的推移會根據客戶數量加速，我們如何將數量聚合到智能工廠中。就整體效率而言，我認為您可以從整體營業利潤率的提高中看出這一點。這對我們來說有兩個目的。

First is efficiency that goes to the margin. What is more important is I talk about the ramp of the SiP and also automotive. Our automotive customer per se, they are extremely delighted to have light-out factory where you document our data of every single process station, every single process. And then the -- it demonstrate the unparalleled quality as well as traceability. I actually talked about this a few years ago. I'm not sure the -- we all remember that. One of the key things going forward is in the heterogeneous integration world, things will become more complicated. The liability will become bigger. You really have to have much better granularity as well as traceability. And without the light-out factory of every single process, you will not be able to demonstrate that.

首先是邊際效率。更重要的是我談到了 SiP 的斜坡以及汽車。我們的汽車客戶本身，他們非常高興擁有熄燈工廠，您可以在其中記錄我們每個流程站、每個流程的數據。然後——它展示了無與倫比的質量和可追溯性。其實幾年前我就談過這個了。我不確定——我們都記得這一點。未來的關鍵之一是在異構集成世界中，事情會變得更加複雜。責任會變大。你真的必須有更好的粒度和可追溯性。如果沒有每個流程的熄燈工廠，您將無法證明這一點。

We have demonstrated a 100% automated factory versus a 90% automated factory. They are different in nature. A lot of people couldn't comprehend that. But when you talk to the automotive guys, you will understand. So in the heterogenous integration going forward, as the micro system become more smaller, more difficult, more complex, and then the material sect become more intrinsically involved. And I think the light-out factory will add -- will play a great role in our engagement with our key customer in the complex design arena.

我們展示了 100% 自動化工廠與 90% 自動化工廠。它們的性質不同。很多人無法理解這一點。但是，當您與汽車專家交談時，您就會明白。所以在未來的異構整合中，隨著微觀系統變得越來越小，越來越困難，越來越複雜，然後物質部門變得更加內在。而且我認為熄燈工廠將增加 - 將在我們與復雜設計領域的主要客戶的接觸中發揮重要作用。

Okay. Just a follow up for the operating margin. So last year, you have the target to grow operating margin by 2.5% to 3% last year, and you end up have better 3.6% improvement last year. So how about this year? Do you have any operating margin improvement target for this year?

好的。只是對營業利潤率的跟進。因此，去年，您的目標是去年將營業利潤率提高 2.5% 至 3%，而您最終會獲得更好的 3.6% 改進。那麼今年呢？您今年有任何提高營業利潤率的目標嗎？

We don't have exactly a target per se, but we'll -- what I can say is we will continue to see margin improvement both on the sequential only basis as well as on an annual basis. We'll continue to see our margin both at the growth and the operating margin level to improve for the year.

我們本身並沒有確切的目標，但我們會 - 我可以說的是，我們將繼續看到僅在連續的基礎上以及在年度基礎上的利潤率改善。我們將繼續看到我們的利潤率在增長和營業利潤率水平上都將在今年有所改善。

Our next question is from Rick Hsu of Daiwa Security.

我們的下一個問題來自 Daiwa Security 的 Rick Hsu。

Can you guys hear me?

你們能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Yes, just one quick housekeeping question from me. Maybe to Joseph. What's your utilization rate across the board on your wirebond, testing and [packaging] for Q4 last year and in this year, Q1 this year?

好的。是的，我只問了一個簡單的家務問題。也許對約瑟夫。去年第 4 季度和今年第 1 季度，您的引線鍵合、測試和 [封裝] 的全面利用率是多少？

Q4, our overall assembly utilization rate is above 85% and test above 80%. I think it's going to be very similar in Q1 as well. Packaging will be 80% to 85%, and test will continue to be above 80%.

Q4，我們的整體組裝利用率在85%以上，測試在80%以上。我認為第一季度也會非常相似。包裝將80%至85%，測試將繼續在80%以上。

Okay. Just one quick follow-up. When you say about 4% impact to your ATM -- IC ATM sales in Q1 this year, that also has taken to account of the capacity loss because of your China disposal, right? So it's not really a apple-to-apple comparison, right?

好的。只需快速跟進。當您說今年第一季度對您的 ATM （IC ATM 銷售）產生約 4% 的影響時，這還考慮了您在中國處置造成的容量損失，對吧？所以這並不是真正的蘋果對蘋果的比較，對吧？

I don't quite get your question. I'm sorry, can you repeat that?

我不太明白你的問題。對不起，你能再說一遍嗎？

Okay. Because your ATM revenue in Q4 last year, that was still -- yes, that was still including the China operation. But starting from Q1 this year.

好的。因為您去年第四季度的 ATM 收入仍然是 - 是的，仍然包括中國業務。但從今年第一季度開始。

When we say reduced by 4%, it's really apple-to-apple is that quarter 4, we excluded the China operation.

當我們說減少 4% 時，實際上是蘋果對蘋果的影響，即第 4 季度，我們排除了中國業務。

Next question from Szeho of China Renaissance. Szeho?

下一個問題來自China Renaissance的Szeho。思豪？

Two questions from me. The first one, you mentioned that you are seeing more IDM outsourcing this year. Is it fair to assume that IDMs nowadays are turning more receptive to turnkey outsourcing to us? Yes, because in the past then tends to only outsource the assembly part.

我的兩個問題。第一個，你提到今年你看到了更多的 IDM 外包。假設當今的 IDM 更願意接受外包給我們，這是否公平？是的，因為過去往往只外包裝配部分。

When I talk about IDM outsourcing, I mainly comment based on the fact from the last 2 years. As you know, automotive is the most difficult one to outsource simply because the automotive manufacturers and Tier 1, and they're not flexible at all. But we all know this. Now in the last 2 years, because of the supply chain disconnect, people are more accepting alternative route, different the material set, different the suppliers and different qualification standard. So I think the COVID-19 has done great for the outsourcing industry is it broke that constraint.

當我談到 IDM 外包時，我主要根據過去 2 年的事實發表評論。如您所知，汽車是最難外包的，僅僅因為汽車製造商和一級供應商，他們根本不靈活。但我們都知道這一點。現在近2年，由於供應鏈脫節，人們更願意接受替代路線、不同的材料組合、不同的供應商和不同的資質標準。所以我認為 COVID-19 對外包行業做得很好，它打破了這一限制。

As a result of that, if the automotive end customers and the Tier 1 are directly connecting to the outsourcing industry. The IDM becomes one of the acceptable alternative as well as the outsourcing industry. So by that standard, it is good long term that the assembly and test will increase the outsourcing ratio from the IDMs. When you talk of [fabulous], it's meaningless because the fabulous has been outsourcing all of it. But IDM, we're seeing a clear trend not only in the automotive, you actually have the same issue even with the computing. And so we are seeing the outsourcing acceleration. Of course, I'm not addressing the location of the manufacturer, which is a totally separate the rationale, not purely based on economics.

因此，如果汽車終端客戶和 Tier 1 直接連接到外包行業。 IDM 成為可接受的替代方案以及外包行業之一。所以按照這個標準，從長遠來看，組裝和測試將增加 IDM 的外包率是很好的。當您談論 [fabulous] 時，它毫無意義，因為 fabulous 已經將所有這些都外包了。但是 IDM，我們不僅在汽車領域看到了明顯的趨勢，甚至在計算方面實際上也存在同樣的問題。因此，我們看到外包加速。當然，我不是在談論製造商的位置，這是一個完全獨立的理由，而不是純粹基於經濟學。

The second question is on chiplet. Do you think OSAT or ASE in specific will play a meaningful role in the chiplet market? And if that's the case, in what areas and when we should see the contribution to us?

第二個問題是關於chiplet。您認為 OSAT 或 ASE 具體會在小芯片市場發揮重要作用嗎？如果是這樣，我們應該在哪些領域以及何時看到對我們的貢獻？

Well, I do see the -- in the future, ASE will continue to play an important role in the outsourcing market, whichever segment. I think you talked about the chiplet. The -- I mean the chiplet that without naming the -- there are only a handful of customers are dealing with the chiplet architecture. And I believe all of them have more willingness to do outsourcing. And then the question is the -- for the back end of the chiplet, should I go to foundry or should I go to the OSAT. But if you have that view and in my -- I would advise you to have a bigger longer-term view.

好吧，我確實看到了——在未來，ASE 將繼續在外包市場中發揮重要作用，無論是哪個領域。我想你談到了小芯片。 - 我的意思是小芯片，沒有命名 - 只有少數客戶正在處理小芯片架構。而且我相信他們都更願意做外包。然後問題是——對於小芯片的後端，我應該去代工廠還是去 OSAT。但是，如果您有這種觀點並且在我的 - 我會建議您有一個更大的長期觀點。

This is why I'm asking your opinion.

這就是我問你意見的原因。

Yes. Outsourcing is one trend, that's binary. Once you outsourced, how do you partition the outsourced volume as a totally separate question. I think having the binary from 0 to 1 is a whole lot more meaningful than how do you partition the one afterwards. And afterwards, we have to look at technology and the overall presence, logistics, business model, whether round is more meaningful or square is more meaningful. And then they get into an [argumental] -- the arena, which I'm not ready to discuss on line. But I believe outsourcing per se is very meaningful. And once the customer outsourced, that becomes a competition who can ramp up faster, who can manage the cost better, who will have better service and the less constrained. I mean the outsourcing we've been doing this for 40 years. We understand how it works. Yes.

是的。外包是一種趨勢，這是二元的。外包後，如何將外包卷劃分為一個完全獨立的問題。我認為讓二進製文件從 0 到 1 比之後如何對二進製文件進行分區更有意義。之後，我們要看看技術和整體的存在、物流、商業模式，是圓形更有意義還是方形更有意義。然後他們進入了一個[爭論] - 競技場，我還沒有準備好在線討論。但我相信外包本身是非常有意義的。一旦客戶外包，這就變成了一場競爭，誰能更快地發展，誰能更好地管理成本，誰將獲得更好的服務，並且限制更少。我的意思是我們已經做了 40 年的外包。我們了解它是如何工作的。是的。

Yes. Last question maybe if I can use you and that was it. Can you give (inaudible) between assembly and test this year? A rough number would do.

是的。最後一個問題也許我可以使用你，就是這樣。您能否在今年的組裝和測試之間給出（聽不清）？一個粗略的數字就可以了。

I think the number -- Joseph, yes, why don't you…

我想這個數字——約瑟夫，是的，你為什麼不……

Yes. This year, I think the -- we will start increase our investment in tests. So from a very rough sketch, I think this year, we're looking at around 50% of the CapEx -- equipment CapEx will be assembly, about 30% in tests. And at EMS, we're also -- because of the new projects that we're taking up, I think the percentage will increase to about 15% and the rest to material.

是的。今年，我認為 - 我們將開始增加對測試的投資。所以從一個非常粗略的草圖來看，我認為今年，我們正在研究大約 50% 的資本支出——設備資本支出將是組裝，大約 30% 用於測試。在 EMS，我們還 - 由於我們正在開展的新項目，我認為該百分比將增加到 15% 左右，其餘的將成為材料。

We have one last question, online question from Mr. Charlie Chan of Morgan Stanley. I'm going to read it for the management.

我們還有最後一個問題，來自摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan 先生的在線問題。我要為管理層閱讀它。

Any observation for the chip inventory trend in the supply chain? Will company's ATM utilization stay high through the year? How about the pricing and gross margin trend?

對供應鏈中的芯片庫存趨勢有何觀察？公司的 ATM 利用率全年會保持高位嗎？定價和毛利率趨勢如何？

As we mentioned, I think -- yes, we're still expecting a very strong year this year. I think the loading will be kept at a very high level. And in terms of pricing, it's still a very pricing-friendly year for us. And as I mentioned earlier on, in terms of our margin, we are expecting a sequential margin improvement on quarterly basis. And for the whole year, I think there will be further improvement in terms of both our growth and operating margin comparing to last year.

正如我們所提到的，我認為 - 是的，我們仍然期待今年非常強勁。我認為負載將保持在非常高的水平。在定價方面，對我們來說，這仍然是定價非常友好的一年。正如我之前提到的，就我們的利潤率而言，我們預計每個季度的利潤率都會連續提高。全年，我認為我們的增長和營業利潤率與去年相比都會有進一步的改善。

Well, in terms of the chip inventory, we have seen some reports from some customers, but not all of the report. We think the chip inventory is low overall. Of course, the chip inventory can be high in a very highly localized application sector, right? That's all we want to share. Thank you.

那麼，在芯片庫存方面，我們看到了一些客戶的一些報告，但不是所有的報告。我們認為芯片庫存總體偏低。當然，在高度本地化的應用領域，芯片庫存可能很高，對吧？這就是我們想要分享的全部內容。謝謝你。

There is no more question. Thank you, everyone, for joining us this quarter. See you next quarter. Thank you.

沒有更多的問題。感謝大家在本季度加入我們。下個季度見。謝謝你。