日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2021 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello. I am Ken Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our Third Quarter 2021 Earnings Release. Thank you for attending our earnings presentation today.

你好。我是 ASE Technology Holdings 投資者關係主管 Ken Hsiang。歡迎來到我們的 2021 年第三季度收益發布。感謝您參加我們今天的收益報告會。

Please refer to the safe harbor notice on Page 2. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please disconnect at this time.

請參閱第 2 頁的安全港通知。所有參與者都同意通過參與此活動來廣播他們的聲音和問題。如果參與者不同意，請在此時斷開連接。

I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially.

我想提醒大家，下面的演示文稿可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述存在高度風險，我們的實際結果可能存在重大差異。

For the purposes of this presentation, our dollar figures are generally stated in new Taiwan dollars, unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan based company, our financials are presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP.

就本報告而言，除非另有說明，否則我們的美元數字通常以新台幣表示。作為一家台灣公司，我們的財務按照台灣國際財務報告準則呈報。使用台灣 IFRS 呈現的結果可能與使用其他會計準則的結果存在重大差異，包括我們的子公司使用中國公認會計準則呈現的結果。

I'm joined today by our CFO, Joseph Tung. For today's presentation, I will make the prepared remarks going over our financial results. And Joseph will be available to answer questions during the Q&A.

今天，我們的首席財務官 Joseph Tung 也加入了我的行列。對於今天的演講，我將就我們的財務業績發表準備好的評論。約瑟夫將在問答期間回答問題。

During the quarter, ASE saw new historical highs in its revenues and profits led by strength within our ATM business. Despite electronic industry challenges with various supply chain shortages, the overall health of our businesses remain relatively strong. During the third quarter, our ATM factory lines remained highly utilized through the entire quarter despite some device order volatility. Supply chain security still appears to be of primary importance to our customers.

本季度，日月光在 ATM 業務實力的帶動下，收入和利潤均創下歷史新高。儘管電子行業面臨各種供應鏈短缺的挑戰，但我們業務的整體健康狀況仍然相對強勁。在第三季度，儘管設備訂單出現了一些波動，我們的 ATM 工廠生產線在整個季度仍然保持著高利用率。供應鏈安全似乎對我們的客戶來說仍然是最重要的。

Even as certain parts of the supply chain appear to be improving in health, various shortages such as wafers and substrates continue to persist. Meanwhile, some of our capital equipment installations for the current season have been completed. And while it's true, lead times on some equipment have come in, but others remain in short supply.

儘管供應鏈的某些部分似乎在健康狀況有所改善，但晶圓和基板等各種短缺仍持續存在。同時，我們本季度的一些資本設備安裝已經完成。雖然這是真的，一些設備的交貨時間已經到來，但其他設備仍然供不應求。

Our EMS business also completed the quarter with strong year-over-year growth in revenues despite finishing the quarter slightly behind our own expectations. Our EMS factories still faced significant challenges related to component shortages and supply chain issues disrupting and product manufacturing. Things continue to be sticky with the various manufacturing limitations, making EMS factories run less smoothly.

儘管本季度結束時略低於我們自己的預期，但我們的 EMS 業務在本季度也實現了強勁的收入同比增長。我們的 EMS 工廠仍然面臨與組件短缺和供應鏈問題中斷和產品製造相關的重大挑戰。由於各種製造限制，事情仍然很棘手，這使得 EMS 工廠運行不那麼順利。

With that said, let's go over the numbers for the quarter. Please turn to Page 3, where you will find our third quarter consolidated results. Intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses have been eliminated during consolidation. For the third quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of $3.20 and basic EPS of $3.29. Year-to-date, fully diluted and basic EPS is now $7.43 and $7.66, respectively.

話雖如此，讓我們回顧一下本季度的數字。請轉到第 3 頁，您將在其中找到我們第三季度的綜合結果。我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易已在合併期間消除。第三季度，我們錄得 3.20 美元的完全攤薄每股收益和 3.29 美元的基本每股收益。年初至今，完全攤薄和基本每股收益現在分別為 7.43 美元和 7.66 美元。

Consolidated net revenue increased by 19% quarter-over-quarter and by 22% year-over-year. The sequential increase was primarily driven by growth within both our ATM and EMS businesses. We had a gross profit of $30.8 billion with a gross margin of 20.4%. Our gross margin improved by 0.9 percentage points sequentially and by 4.4 percentage points year-over-year. Our gross margin improvement is primarily driven by margin improvement in our ATM business, offset in part by higher EMS business mix.

綜合淨收入環比增長 19%，同比增長 22%。環比增長主要是由我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務的增長推動的。我們的毛利潤為 308 億美元，毛利率為 20.4%。我們的毛利率環比增長 0.9 個百分點，同比增長 4.4 個百分點。我們的毛利率提高主要是由於我們的 ATM 業務的利潤率提高，部分被更高的 EMS 業務組合所抵消。

Our operating expenses increased by $0.8 billion sequentially and $1.8 billion annually to $12.4 billion. Our operating expense percentage declined 1 percentage points sequentially and 0.4 percentage points year-over-year to 8.2%. For the full year, we continue to see an improvement from last year's 9% level.

我們的運營費用環比增長 8 億美元，每年增長 18 億美元，達到 124 億美元。我們的營業費用百分比環比下降 1 個百分點，同比下降 0.4 個百分點至 8.2%。全年來看，我們繼續看到比去年 9% 的水平有所改善。

Operating profit was $18.4 billion, up 40% sequentially and 102% year-over-year. Operating margin increased 1.8 percentage points sequentially and 4.8 percentage points year-over-year to 12.2%.

營業利潤為 184 億美元，環比增長 40%，同比增長 102%。營業利潤率環比增長 1.8 個百分點，同比增長 4.8 個百分點至 12.2%。

During the quarter, our nonoperating income was 0 and contains $0.6 billion of net interest expense, offset entirely by gains related to our foreign exchange hedging activities, investments and asset sales.

本季度，我們的非營業收入為 0，包含 6 億美元的淨利息支出，完全被與我們的外匯對沖活動、投資和資產出售相關的收益所抵消。

Tax expense for the quarter was $3.6 billion. The effective tax rate for the third quarter was 20%, slightly lower than our expectation. As a result of increased profitability, we were able to offset the recognition of our annual undistributed earnings tax with higher recognition of deferred tax assets during the quarter.

本季度的稅收支出為 36 億美元。第三季度的有效稅率為 20%，略低於我們的預期。由於盈利能力增加，我們能夠在本季度通過更高的遞延稅資產確認來抵消我們對年度未分配所得稅的確認。

Going forward, we continue to believe our ongoing effective tax rate to be about 20%. Net income for the quarter was $14.2 billion, representing an increase of $3.9 billion sequentially and an improvement of $7.5 billion year-over-year.

展望未來，我們仍然相信我們目前的有效稅率約為 20%。本季度淨收入為 142 億美元，環比增長 39 億美元，同比增長 75 億美元。

From a foreign exchange perspective, NT dollar per U.S. dollar exchange rate was at 27.8% during the third quarter of 2021, TWD 28 during the second quarter of 2021 and TWD 29.5 during the third quarter of 2020. We approximate that NT dollar appreciation had a negative 0.3 percentage point impact sequentially and a negative 1.7 percentage point impact year-over-year to both gross and operating margins at the holding company level.

從外彙的角度來看，2021年第三季度新台幣兌美元匯率為27.8%，2021年第二季度為28新台幣，2020年第三季度為29.5新台幣。我們估計新台幣升值有對控股公司的毛利率和營業利潤率造成環比負 0.3 個百分點的影響，同比負 1.7 個百分點的影響。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Consolidated gross profit, excluding PPA expenses, would be $31.7 billion with a 21.1% gross margin. Operating profit would be $19.6 billion with an operating margin of 13%. Net profit would be $15.4 billion with a net margin of 10.2%. Basic EPS, excluding PPA expenses, would be $3.56.

在頁面底部，我們提供了關鍵的損益表項目，但不包括與 PPA 相關的費用。不包括 PPA 費用的合併毛利潤為 317 億美元，毛利率為 21.1%。營業利潤為 196 億美元，營業利潤率為 13%。淨利潤為 154 億美元，淨利潤率為 10.2%。不包括 PPA 費用的基本每股收益為 3.56 美元。

On Page 4 is our ATM P&L. It is worth noting here that the ATM revenue reported here contains revenue eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses. Business grew rapidly during the quarter. A strong seasonal uptick in advanced packaging led the way, driven by applications in the computing and communications end markets. Utilization rates across our key equipment were full or near full.

第 4 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。值得注意的是，此處報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層面消除的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。本季度業務快速增長。在計算和通信終端市場應用的推動下，先進封裝的強勁季節性增長引領了潮流。我們關鍵設備的利用率已滿或接近滿。

For the third quarter of 2021, revenues for our ATM business were $90.1 billion, up $11.1 billion from the previous quarter and up $18.3 billion from the same period last year. This represents a 14.1% increase sequentially and a 25.4% increase year-over-year. On a U.S. dollar basis, our ATM revenues grew by 15% sequentially, which is slightly ahead of our own expectations.

2021年第三季度，我們的ATM業務收入為901億美元，比上一季度增加111億美元，比去年同期增加183億美元。這意味著環比增長 14.1%，同比增長 25.4%。按美元計算，我們的 ATM 收入環比增長 15%，略高於我們自己的預期。

Gross profits for our ATM business was $24.7 billion, up $4.5 billion sequentially and $10.2 billion year-over-year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 27.4%, up 1.8 percentage points sequentially and 7.2 percentage points year-over-year. Our sequential gross margin improvement was primarily due to higher loading, offset in part by a higher raw material product mix and ForEx impact. The year-over-year gross margin improvement was primarily the result of higher loading, improved efficiency and a friendlier ASP environment, offset somewhat by NT dollar appreciation.

我們 ATM 業務的毛利潤為 247 億美元，環比增長 45 億美元，同比增長 102 億美元。 ATM業務毛利率為27.4%，環比上升1.8個百分點，同比上升7.2個百分點。我們的連續毛利率改善主要是由於更高的負荷，部分被更高的原材料產品組合和外匯影響所抵消。毛利率同比增長主要是由於更高的負載、提高的效率和更友好的 ASP 環境，但在一定程度上被新台幣升值所抵消。

During the third quarter, operating expenses were $9.1 billion, up $0.7 billion sequentially and $1.4 billion year-over-year. The sequential and annual operating expense increases were primarily driven by higher employee bonuses, which are based on a profit-sharing model. Our operating expense percentage continued to decline to 10.1%, down 0.5 percentage points sequentially and down 0.7 percentage points year-over-year.

第三季度，運營費用為 91 億美元，環比增長 7 億美元，同比增長 14 億美元。連續和年度運營費用增加主要是由於更高的員工獎金，這是基於利潤分享模式。營業費用佔比繼續下降至 10.1%，環比下降 0.5 個百分點，同比下降 0.7 個百分點。

During the third quarter, operating profit was $15.6 billion, representing an improvement of $3.8 billion quarter-over-quarter and an improvement of $8.8 billion year-over-year. Operating margin was 17.3%, improving 2.3 percentage points sequentially and 7.8 percentage points year-over-year. From a foreign exchange perspective, we approximate that NT dollar appreciation had a negative 0.4 percentage point impact sequentially and a negative 2.5 percentage point impact year-over-year to both gross and operating margins at the holding company level. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 28.4% and operating profit margin would be 18.6%.

第三季度，營業利潤為 156 億美元，環比增長 38 億美元，同比增長 88 億美元。營業利潤率為17.3%，環比提高2.3個百分點，同比提高7.8個百分點。從外彙的角度來看，我們估計新台幣升值對控股公司的毛利率和營業利潤率造成環比負 0.4 個百分點的影響，同比負 2.5 個百分點的影響。如果沒有與 PPA 相關的折舊和攤銷的影響，ATM 毛利率為 28.4%，營業利潤率為 18.6%。

On Page 5, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. ATM revenue for the quarter represents an all-time high. We believe that the current year's strength has been generated by strong demand across all product lines, including various trailing edge wirebond-based capacities, a revival in use and a reset in terms of profitability and wirebonded product lines have helped boost business for us during 2021. Going forward, we believe that wire-bonded products will continue to grow along with our advanced packaging product lines.

在第 5 頁，您會發現我們的 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。本季度的 ATM 收入創歷史新高。我們認為，今年的強勁勢頭是由所有產品線的強勁需求產生的，包括各種基於引線鍵合的後緣產能、使用的複蘇和盈利能力的重新設定，引線鍵合產品線有助於在 2021 年促進我們的業務. 展望未來，我們相信引線鍵合產品將隨著我們先進封裝產品線的不斷發展壯大。

From an application of technology perspective, we increasingly see more opportunities for our ATM technologies to proliferate into subsystem and system level manufacturing. These products serve as a growing market created by increased transistor cosies at leading-edge nodes and expanding consumer appetites for smaller, more elegant electronic solutions. We increasingly provide cost-effective manufacturing solutions that make visionary products viable.

從技術應用的角度來看，我們越來越多地看到我們的 ATM 技術有更多機會擴散到子系統和系統級製造中。這些產品作為一個不斷增長的市場，由前沿節點的晶體管舒適度增加和消費者對更小、更優雅的電子解決方案的需求擴大而創造。我們越來越多地提供具有成本效益的製造解決方案，使有遠見的產品變得可行。

On Page 6 is our ATM revenue by market segment. You can see here a pickup in our communications and computing market segments with a decline in automotive, consumer and other products. On an absolute revenue perspective, all segments grew. A particular interest is that our automotive business grew 68% on a year-over-year basis. We believe that the automotive market segment will be a significant contributor to our own growth during the coming year.

第 6 頁是我們按細分市場劃分的 ATM 收入。您可以在這裡看到我們的通信和計算細分市場有所回升，而汽車、消費和其他產品則有所下降。從絕對收入的角度來看，所有細分市場都有增長。特別令人感興趣的是，我們的汽車業務同比增長了 68%。我們相信，汽車細分市場將在來年成為我們自身增長的重要貢獻者。

On Page 7, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. As we mentioned last quarter, our advanced packaging business picked up in accordance with our expectations, increasing 3 percentage points becoming 36% of our ATM revenues. Wirebonding as a percentage of revenue came down 3 percentage points. But on an absolute dollar basis, wirebond revenue grew 7% sequentially.

在第 7 頁，您會發現我們按服務類型劃分的 ATM 收入。正如我們上個季度提到的，我們的先進封裝業務按我們的預期回升，增長了 3 個百分點，占我們 ATM 收入的 36%。引線鍵合佔收入的百分比下降了 3 個百分點。但按絕對美元計算，引線鍵合收入環比增長 7%。

On Page 8, you can see the results of our EMS business and a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The information we provide in regards to our EMS business may differ materially from the information directly provided by our subsidiary as they report independently using Chinese GAAP.

在第 8 頁，您可以看到我們 EMS 業務的結果以及按應用劃分的 EMS 收入的圖形表示。我們提供的有關我們的 EMS 業務的信息可能與我們的子公司直接提供的信息存在重大差異，因為它們使用中國公認會計原則獨立報告。

The overall environment at the EMS level has been sticky. Mass production continues to be choppy. Component shortages and supply chain deviations made their impacts felt during the quarter. And when we look at the entire situation, we believe we have been adversely impacted by various upstream component shortages and downstream manufacturing issues. This resulted in manufacturing delays for multiple devices and customers. This is why our third quarter EMS revenues came in slightly behind our expectations. Fortunately, we do believe that most of the impacted revenue will get pushed out into later quarters, but overall manufacturing throughput continues to be choppy, limiting production efficiency.

EMS 層面的整體環境一直很棘手。大規模生產繼續不穩定。組件短缺和供應鏈偏差在本季度產生了影響。當我們審視整個情況時，我們認為我們受到了各種上游零部件短缺和下游製造問題的不利影響。這導致多個設備和客戶的製造延遲。這就是我們第三季度 EMS 收入略低於我們預期的原因。幸運的是，我們確實相信大部分受影響的收入將被推遲到以後的幾個季度，但整體製造吞吐量繼續波動，限制了生產效率。

During the third quarter, EMS revenues increased by 24% sequentially and 15% year-over-year. Our EMS gross profit was $5.9 billion, increasing $1.4 billion sequentially and $0.8 billion year-over-year. The sequential EMS gross profit increase was the result of the seasonal build. The year-over-year gross profit increase was the result of a higher volume business.

第三季度，EMS 收入環比增長 24%，同比增長 15%。我們的 EMS 毛利潤為 59 億美元，環比增長 14 億美元，同比增長 8 億美元。 EMS 毛利潤環比增長是季節性增長的結果。毛利潤同比增長是業務量增加的結果。

Gross profit margin for our EMS business unit came in at 9.6%, which is an improvement of 0.5 percentage points sequentially and a decline of 0.1 percentage points year-over-year. The sequential improvement is primarily the result of cost differences from differing product mix and better utilization. On a year-over-year basis, there is a slight decline in gross margin due to new facility ramp-up costs.

我們的 EMS 業務部門的毛利率為 9.6%，環比提高 0.5 個百分點，同比下降 0.1 個百分點。連續改進主要是由於不同產品組合的成本差異和更好的利用率造成的。與去年同期相比，由於新設施的增加成本，毛利率略有下降。

Our EMS business unit's third quarter operating expenses were $3.2 billion, flat sequentially, while increasing $0.4 billion year-over-year. Annual operating expenses are up primarily as a result of a larger operating base.

我們的 EMS 業務部門第三季度運營費用為 32 億美元，環比持平，但同比增長 4 億美元。年度運營費用增加主要是由於更大的運營基礎。

Our operating expense percentage declined 1.2 percentage points sequentially to 5.3%, while staying flat year-over-year. The sequential operating expense percentage decline was primarily driven by flat operating costs with higher revenues. Our EMS operating profit improved $1.4 billion sequentially and $0.3 billion year-over-year. Our EMS operating margin was 4.3%, improving 1.7 percentage points sequentially and declining 0.1 percentage points year-over-year.

我們的營業費用百分比環比下降 1.2 個百分點至 5.3%，但與去年同期持平。營業費用百分比的環比下降主要是由於營業成本持平而收入增加。我們的 EMS 營業利潤環比增長 14 億美元，同比增長 3 億美元。我們的 EMS 營業利潤率為 4.3%，環比提高 1.7 個百分點，同比下降 0.1 個百分點。

The overall difficult manufacturing environment continues to persist. We were able to exceed our targeted 4% operating margin in the third quarter, and likely will in the fourth quarter. However, for the full year, we believe that we will be unable to reach our EMS operating margin target of 4%. We believe that the operating margin variance is generally attributable to IC shortages and the COVID-19 operating environment. We expect some improvement in the operating environment next year. And as such, we believe a 4% operating margin target continues to be applicable for future years.

整體艱難的製造環境繼續存在。我們能夠在第三季度超過我們 4% 的目標營業利潤率，並且可能會在第四季度。然而，對於全年，我們認為我們將無法達到 4% 的 EMS 營業利潤率目標。我們認為，營業利潤率差異通常歸因於 IC 短缺和 COVID-19 經營環境。我們預計明年的經營環境會有所改善。因此，我們認為 4% 的營業利潤率目標將繼續適用於未來幾年。

On the bottom half of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. Consumer product revenues as a percentage of total increased 5 percentage points, in line with its seasonality, while our Industrial segment came down 4 percentage points.

在頁面的下半部分，您會發現我們的 EMS 收入（按應用程序）的圖形表示。消費品收入佔總收入的百分比增加了 5 個百分點，與其季節性一致，而我們的工業部門則下降了 4 個百分點。

On Page 9, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. Total unused credit lines amounted to $261.5 billion. After payment of our dividend in the third quarter, our net debt-to-equity ratio temporarily increased to 71%.

在第 9 頁，您將找到我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。未使用的信貸額度總額為 2615 億美元。在第三季度支付股息後，我們的淨負債權益比率暫時上升至 71%。

On Page 10, you'll find our equipment capital expenditures. Amounts on this slide are denoted in U.S. dollars. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the third quarter totaled $468 million, of which $294 million were used in packaging, $101 million in testing, $60 million in EMS operations and $13 million in interconnect materials and others. And at this time, we see a slight uptick in our capital expenditures now up 25% from last year. This pickup in expected capital spending relates to additional opportunities in advanced packaging and test business generated by our turnkey strategy.

在第 10 頁，您會看到我們的設備資本支出。這張幻燈片上的金額以美元表示。第三季度機械和設備資本支出總計 4.68 億美元，其中 2.94 億美元用於封裝，1.01 億美元用於測試，6000 萬美元用於 EMS 運營，1300 萬美元用於互連材料和其他。目前，我們的資本支出略有上升，比去年增加了 25%。預期資本支出的增加與我們的交鑰匙戰略所產生的先進封裝和測試業務的額外機會有關。

Financially speaking, our equipment capital expenditures expand factory capacity and utilization of that factory capacity generates EBITDA. Each equipment capital investment scales out facilities to generate additional revenue and EBITDA. This chart represents the ongoing EBITDA generating capability of the company. EBITDA for the most recent 4 quarters was USD 3.9 billion, significantly ahead of our CapEx even in a high CapEx time frame. USD 3.9 billion of EBITDA, state in another way, represents TWD 25.8 of EBITDA per share.

從財務上講，我們的設備資本支出擴大了工廠產能，工廠產能的利用產生了 EBITDA。每項設備資本投資都會擴大設施規模，以產生額外的收入和 EBITDA。該圖表代表了公司持續的 EBITDA 生成能力。最近 4 個季度的 EBITDA 為 39 億美元，即使在較高的資本支出時間範圍內，也大大領先於我們的資本支出。換句話說，39 億美元的 EBITDA 代表每股 EBITDA 的 25.8 新台幣。

As of the end of the third quarter, capital equipment availability for certain product lines appear to be normalizing. However, this situation was not across the board for us. There are still extended lead times for certain pieces of capital equipment. For many product lines, we are still running capacity constraint and still in need of capacity expansion. We have noticed, especially recently that much is being made about the timing of our capital equipment decisions. We understand this, from a simplified perspective, may serve as a predictive indicator, but this indicator can easily be misinterpreted as it means different things during different times of the season and in different contexts.

截至第三季度末，某些產品線的資本設備可用性似乎正在正常化。然而，這種情況對我們來說並不是全面的。某些資本設備的交貨時間仍然延長。對於很多產品線來說，我們仍然處於產能限制狀態，仍然需要擴容。我們注意到，尤其是最近，我們對資本設備決策的時間安排做了很多工作。我們理解，從簡化的角度來看，這可以作為一個預測指標，但這個指標很容易被誤解，因為它在季節的不同時間和不同的環境中意味著不同的東西。

Spending on capital equipment fundamentally indicates that we believe there is an additional production capacity needed for sustained new business. But what does our capital expenditures leveling off during a record year mean? And here is where some of the confusion seems to exist. It means that, for this season, after a period of rapid expansion, factory capacity is finally aligned with near-term expansion needs and goals. We have historically had the luxury of being able to judge our capital expenditures with a relatively short lead time, meaning we traditionally finalize our equipment orders about 3 to 6 months ahead of delivery.

資本設備支出從根本上表明我們認為持續的新業務需要額外的生產能力。但是，在創紀錄的一年中，我們的資本支出趨於平穩意味著什麼？這就是似乎存在一些混亂的地方。這意味著，本季，經過一段時間的快速擴張，工廠產能終於與近期擴張需求和目標保持一致。歷史上，我們能夠以相對較短的交貨時間來判斷我們的資本支出，這意味著我們傳統上會在交付前大約 3 到 6 個月完成我們的設備訂單。

This allows for a final level of precision and granularity as well as better alignment with incoming business. Because of these short lead times and the annual seasonality of electronics, this intersection of capacity and expansion goals happens every single year. In fact, this intersection is actually happening substantially later in the year than in previous years. Our wirebonding CapEx leveling off this late in the manufacturing season actually means there was strong demand this year, and capacity took a long time to catch up. In short, we are having a really good year.

這允許最終級別的精度和粒度以及更好地與傳入業務保持一致。由於這些短的交貨時間和電子產品的年度季節性，這種產能和擴張目標的交叉點每年都會發生。事實上，與往年相比，這一交叉點實際上發生在今年晚些時候。我們的引線鍵合資本支出在製造季節後期趨於平穩，實際上意味著今年需求強勁，產能需要很長時間才能趕上。簡而言之，我們度過了非常好的一年。

What it doesn't mean from our perspective is that a near-term correction is coming. Quite to the contrary, we still see growth in our business next year. We usually do not make detailed comments on next year's outlook this early. But given the level of volatility driven by what would seem to be a focus on noise versus the actual signal, we feel it prudent to express a more extensive view. We are, again, put into a position much like we were last year at this time in which the company's outlook signaled strength amongst generally cautious sentiment.

從我們的角度來看，這並不意味著近期的修正即將到來。恰恰相反，我們明年的業務仍然會增長。我們通常不會這麼早就對明年的前景發表詳細評論。但鑑於似乎關注噪聲與實際信號所驅動的波動水平，我們認為表達更廣泛的觀點是謹慎的。我們再次處於與去年這個時候一樣的位置，在這種情況下，公司的前景在普遍謹慎的情緒中顯示出強勢。

The overall manufacturing environment remains positive for us. But admittedly, some of the data is a bit difficult to interpret. And while we do not presume to have the definitive answer on the semiconductor cycle, we do wish to express that we continue to have strong order flow from the vast majority of our customers with orders extending well into 2022 and some as far out as 2023, well beyond normal booking times.

整體製造環境對我們來說仍然是積極的。但不可否認，有些數據有點難以解釋。雖然我們不認為對半導體週期有明確的答案，但我們確實希望表示，我們繼續從絕大多數客戶那裡獲得強勁的訂單流，訂單將持續到 2022 年，有些甚至遠至 2023 年，遠遠超出正常的預訂時間。

From a more macro perspective, our data points taken along with the understanding that global wafer supply remains in severe shortage. This shortage is at a grand scale, causing design products unable to find manufacturing slots across the semiconductor manufacturing supply chain. Products with high promise relating to 5G, AI, IoT and ADAS are being delayed, if not outright being canceled in this environment.

從更宏觀的角度來看，我們的數據點與全球晶圓供應仍然嚴重短缺的理解相結合。這種短缺規模很大，導致設計產品無法在整個半導體製造供應鏈中找到製造槽。與 5G、人工智能、物聯網和 ADAS 相關的高前景產品正在被推遲，甚至在這種環境下被徹底取消。

Despite noise of double booking, product and end market softness, we believe there still exists substantial pent-up demand. Barring a significant industry-wide correction, we expect whatever future slack in wafer demand to be quickly taken up by other customers and products looking for production slots during this shortage environment. As such, we believe it's reasonable to continue to expect a somewhat full and linearized delivery pattern of wafers, leaving relatively little room for seasonal softness.

儘管有雙訂、產品和終端市場疲軟的聲音，我們認為仍存在大量被壓抑的需求。除非全行業出現重大調整，否則我們預計未來晶圓需求的疲軟將很快被其他客戶和在這種短缺環境中尋找生產槽位的產品所佔據。因此，我們認為繼續預期晶圓的交付模式會有些完整和線性化是合理的，而季節性疲軟的空間相對較小。

With that said, we expect our own manufacturing linearization to continue, resulting in a better-than-seasonal first quarter outlook and extending into healthy but moderated growth during 2022. This seems to be in line with much of the industry. We would like to defer to Dr. Wu's year-end presentation for more detail. But given this macro environment, we see full year sales and earnings growth based upon simple annualization of our recent quarter's results. And using that same logic, we expect full year margins should also continue to expand. This is all before we even consider new high-end wafer capacity entering the system, efficiency gains, market share gains and additional outsourcing from IDMs.

話雖如此，我們預計我們自己的製造業線性化將繼續下去，從而使第一季度的前景好於季節性，並在 2022 年延續到健康但溫和的增長。這似乎與大多數行業一致。更多細節我們想推遲到吳博士的年終報告。但鑑於這種宏觀環境，我們看到全年銷售額和盈利增長基於我們最近一個季度業績的簡單年度化。使用同樣的邏輯，我們預計全年利潤率也應該會繼續擴大。這一切還沒有考慮到進入系統的新高端晶圓產能、效率提升、市場份額提升以及來自 IDM 的額外外包。

From a pricing perspective, even though we may not see as many expedite fees this coming year, we believe the ASP environment will continue to be friendly. Pulling things back to the fourth quarter immediately in front of us, we expect for our product lines to remain loaded with business most likely staying steady. There are potential issues with substrate and downstream shortages, but we do believe things are manageable at this point.

從定價的角度來看，儘管明年我們可能不會看到那麼多的加急費，但我們相信 ASP 環境將繼續友好。將事情立即拉回到我們面前的第四季度，我們預計我們的產品線將保持業務最有可能保持穩定。基材和下游短缺存在潛在問題，但我們相信目前情況是可控的。

With that, we would like to provide our fourth quarter business outlook as follows: In U.S. dollar terms, our ATM fourth quarter 2021 business level should be similar to our third quarter 2021 business level. Our ATM fourth quarter 2021 gross margin should be similar to our third quarter 2021 gross margin. For our EMS business in U.S. dollar terms, our EMS fourth quarter 2021 business level should come close to our fourth quarter 2020 levels. Our EMS fourth quarter 2021 operating margin should come close to our third quarter 2021 operating margin.

有了這個，我們想提供我們第四季度的業務展望如下：以美元計算，我們的 ATM 2021 年第四季度業務水平應該與我們 2021 年第三季度的業務水平相似。我們的 ATM 2021 年第四季度毛利率應該與我們 2021 年第三季度的毛利率相似。對於我們以美元計算的 EMS 業務，我們 2021 年第四季度的 EMS 業務水平應該接近 2020 年第四季度的水平。我們的 EMS 2021 年第四季度營業利潤率應接近我們 2021 年第三季度的營業利潤率。

This concludes our prepared remarks. I'd like to open the floor for Q&A. If you have a question, please raise your hand in the WebEx interface in front of you. Thank you.

我們準備好的評論到此結束。我想開始問答環節。如果您有任何問題，請在您面前的 WebEx 界面中舉手。謝謝你。

We have a question from Mr. Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

我們有一個來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan 先生的問題。

We have another question from Mr. Szeho Ng of China Renaissance.

我們還有一個來自華興資本的吳思豪先生的問題。

Hello. Hi. Can you hear me?

你好。你好。你能聽到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

My first question is regarding the China power rationing. I'm not sure if there's any impact to your Q4 business guidance.

我的第一個問題是關於中國的限電問題。我不確定您的第四季度業務指導是否有任何影響。

Szeho, are you asking about the power rationing?

Szeho，你問的是限電嗎？

Yes, the power shortage in China. Any impacts to the business outlook in Q4?

是的，中國的電力短缺。對第四季度的業務前景有何影響？

It has very, very limited impact on us. I think the shortage through some of the logistics arrangements that we can have and also the support of the local government, I think, the impact, there could be some minor disruptions on the operation, but the impact is very, very amicable. It's almost negligible.

它對我們的影響非常非常有限。我認為通過我們可以擁有的一些物流安排以及當地政府的支持造成的短缺，我認為影響，可能會對運營產生一些輕微的干擾，但影響是非常非常友好的。這幾乎可以忽略不計。

Okay. Good. And my second question, given the fact that a lot of your customers are already on the long-term agreement arrangement. I just want to know if there's a -- if the arrangement is more like a take-or-pay arrangement or there will be some flexibility of every scheduling in times when the wafer availabilities or some components are in shortage.

好的。好的。我的第二個問題是，鑑於您的許多客戶已經簽訂了長期協議安排。我只是想知道是否存在——如果這種安排更像是照付不議的安排，或者在晶圓可用性或某些組件短缺的情況下，每次調度都會有一定的靈活性。

Well, I think the long-term agreement is really for the customers to -- it's a product of they're seeking for supply security, particularly when we are having a capacity shortage as well as material and also wafer shortages. I think the -- a lot of customers are a bit concerned with the current situation, and they want to have a more stable supply. And I think that's really the reason why we have such long-term agreements. And it does create some stability for both our customers as well as for us.

好吧，我認為長期協議確實是為客戶準備的——這是他們尋求供應安全的產物，特別是在我們面臨產能短缺以及材料和晶圓短缺的情況下。我認為 - 很多客戶有點擔心當前的情況，他們希望有更穩定的供應。我認為這就是我們簽訂如此長期協議的真正原因。它確實為我們的客戶和我們創造了一些穩定性。

That is true. But what about if they are not able to get the wafers then, would you impose penalty if they are not able to load up our capacity or you will basically allow them to reschedule and lower the capacity at a later time?

那是真實的。但是如果他們當時拿不到晶圓怎麼辦，如果他們不能加載我們的產能，你會處罰嗎？或者你基本上會允許他們重新安排，以後再降低產能？

This is really the arrangement to have a better visibility or stability for our customers in terms of supply. I think there's no way it's being regarded as a tool for penalizing our customers because of the difficulty that they're facing.

這實際上是為了在供應方面為我們的客戶提供更好的可見性或穩定性的安排。我認為它不可能因為客戶面臨的困難而被視為懲罰客戶的工具。

Sure, sure. Okay. All right. And my last question regarding the CapEx spending this year, is it all right to have a breakdown by location, very rough breakdown would be fine.

一定一定。好的。好的。我關於今年資本支出支出的最後一個問題是，按位置細分是否可以，非常粗略的細分就可以了。

Okay. In terms of...

好的。按照...

Let's say, how much in Taiwan, how much in China, Korea, for example. Yes.

比如說，台灣有多少，中國有多少，韓國有多少。是的。

In geographical breakdown?

在地理細分？

Right, right, right. Yes.

對對對。是的。

I would say about 85% is still in Taiwan and, well, 15% in China and other places.

我想說大約 85% 仍在台灣，還有 15% 在中國大陸和其他地方。

Next question is from Mr. Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse.

下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams 先生。

Next question is from Mr. Rick Hsu of Daiwa.

下一個問題來自大和的 Rick Hsu 先生。

Okay. Yes, I just want to make sure because there seems to be some system issue. Okay. So my first question, again, is a housekeeping. What's your utilization rate across the board wirebond testing and free ship in Q3 and in Q4, please?

好的。是的，我只是想確認一下，因為似乎存在一些系統問題。好的。所以我的第一個問題，再次，是家務。請問你們在第三季度和第四季度的全線銲線測試和免費發貨的利用率是多少？

Overall, I think packaging-wise, we are still running at full capacity basically above 85%. And that will continue into Q4. And the test is, as we mentioned, above 80% and also continuing into Q4.

總的來說，我認為在包裝方面，我們仍然滿負荷運行，基本上在 85% 以上。這將持續到第四季度。正如我們所提到的，測試超過了 80%，並且還將持續到第四季度。

Okay. Great. The second question is, it appears to be some disconnect between the sell-in and sell-through demand, meaning that when we look at the sell-in, right, they order from customers and still very, very full and also some customers still fighting for capacity, not only at your end, but also in the foundry space. So still very strong sell-in demand. However, sell-through, I think you guys must have heard some noises recently from Android smartphone sell-through, not so good. And EV, also weak. Chromebook is coming down. So I'm just wondering, how do you guys see this mismatch between the sell-in and sell-through? And do you worry about any snowball effect going forward into Q1 next year for the inventory correction risk?

好的。偉大的。第二個問題是，銷售和直銷需求之間似乎有些脫節，這意味著當我們查看銷售時，對，他們從客戶那裡訂購，仍然非常非常滿，還有一些客戶仍然為產能而戰，不僅在您的末端，而且在代工空間。所以還是非常強勁的賣壓需求。但是，銷售，我想你們最近從Android智能手機的銷售中聽到了一些聲音，不太好。而EV，也很弱。 Chromebook 即將下架。所以我只是想知道，你們如何看待賣出和賣出之間的這種不匹配？您是否擔心明年第一季度的庫存修正風險會產生滾雪球效應？

No, I think the -- what we're seeing here or what we're hearing is that there are some appeared demand softness in some segments, but all these are very, very localized and is subject to only maybe a small portion of the overall. I think the -- in general, the whole industry is still going through a rapid growth period because we're seeing rising IC content. We are seeing many more new applications coming on stream, including AI, 5G, IoT, EV, autonomous driving and so on and so forth. So the unit continues to grow because of the pricing as the content as well as the new application coming on stream. So one, in particular, we're not seeing an overall widespread correction. In fact, we're still going through -- trying to catch up with the demand. As Ken mentioned earlier on, there's still a lot of pent-up demand that's going through, and we're still catching up kind of mode.

不，我認為 - 我們在這裡看到或聽到的是，在某些細分市場中出現了一些需求疲軟，但所有這些都是非常非常本地化的，可能只受制於一小部分全面的。我認為——總的來說，整個行業仍在經歷快速增長期，因為我們看到了不斷增長的 IC 內容。我們看到更多的新應用正在湧現，包括人工智能、5G、物聯網、電動汽車、自動駕駛等等。因此，由於內容定價以及即將推出的新應用程序，該單元繼續增長。因此，特別是，我們沒有看到全面廣泛的修正。事實上，我們仍在經歷——試圖趕上需求。正如肯之前提到的，仍有很多被壓抑的需求正在經歷，我們仍在追趕某種模式。

So I don't think there's really a disconnect. It's just that because of the shortages in terms of wafer, in substrate, in all kinds of disruptions, in terms of operation around the globe, because of the pandemic, I think the -- right now, the supply is still kind of short, and we're still chasing to add capacity to meet our customers' demand.

所以我認為沒有真正的脫節。只是由於晶圓、基板、各種中斷、全球運營方面的短缺，由於大流行，我認為 - 現在，供應仍然有點短缺，我們仍在努力增加產能以滿足客戶的需求。

Okay. Great. Yes, that's good news to hear. But my last question is about your pricing power or your friendly pricing. Can you talk about this? Do you still see friendly pricing trend going forward into Q4 and Q1 this year?

好的。偉大的。是的，這是個好消息。但我的最後一個問題是關於您的定價能力或您的友好定價。你能談談這個嗎？您是否仍然看到今年第四季度和第一季度的友好定價趨勢？

Yes. I think for -- right now, the pricing environment is still friendly, and we think it was -- when going to next year as well. I think what we meant by pricing-friendly is really the price level of the oil price environment that can help us better protect our margin and also even to improve our return going forward.

是的。我認為 - 現在，定價環境仍然友好，我們認為它是 - 明年也是如此。我認為我們所說的定價友好實際上是石油價格環境的價格水平，它可以幫助我們更好地保護我們的利潤，甚至可以提高我們未來的回報。

Our next question is from Mr. Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan 先生。

Okay. First of all, many of your peers and customers have talked about inventory mismatch in the supply chain where you have more inventory of some components and very less inventory or something in most of the supply chains. Is it consistent with what you're seeing? And in your experience, how do you think the situation resolves itself if we think about the next 3- to 6-month kind of time frame? Because it feels like, right now, it's not an outright shortage for every component, but it feels like -- some are in abundant supply, but some are in severe short supply. So I just wanted to hear your take. That's my first question.

好的。首先，您的許多同行和客戶都談到了供應鏈中的庫存不匹配，您的某些組件庫存較多，而大多數供應鏈中的庫存非常少。和你看到的一致嗎？根據您的經驗，如果我們考慮下一個 3 到 6 個月的時間框架，您認為情況如何自行解決？因為感覺就像現在，並不是每個組件都完全短缺，但感覺就像 - 有些供應充足，但有些供應嚴重短缺。所以我只是想听聽你的看法。這是我的第一個問題。

Yes. There's still a lot of mismatches going on at this point. And that's part of the reasons why we're seeing the -- our EMS business is not growing as we were expecting. And this situation will continue because in various areas, there's still shortages in terms of wafers, in terms of some of the packaging equipment or even test equipments that we're trying to add. Material is also one concerned areas.

是的。在這一點上，仍然有很多不匹配發生。這就是我們看到的部分原因——我們的 EMS 業務沒有像我們預期的那樣增長。而且這種情況還會持續下去，因為在各個領域，晶圓方面仍然存在短缺，就我們正在嘗試增加的一些封裝設備甚至測試設備而言。材料也是關注的領域之一。

And if you look at the overall supply situation, the capacity increase for the year, at least for the OSAT part of it, I think the CapEx to sales ratio continued to be maintained at about below 20% level. And that means maybe adding 10%, 15% of our capacity to meet the growing demand. And this has been -- the additional capacity has really been outstripped by the growing demand at this point. And adding capacity is not an easy thing, and this mismatch is going to be -- is going to last for quite some time. We don't see real solutions within the next 6 to 9 months or even a year period.

如果從整體供應情況來看，今年的產能增加，至少對於其中的 OSAT 部分來說，我認為資本支出與銷售額的比率繼續保持在 20% 左右的水平。這意味著可能會增加 10%、15% 的產能以滿足不斷增長的需求。這一直是 - 在這一點上，額外的容量確實被不斷增長的需求所超過。增加容量並不是一件容易的事，而且這種不匹配將會 - 將持續相當長的一段時間。在接下來的 6 到 9 個月甚至一年內，我們看不到真正的解決方案。

Okay. I think last time we talked about 2021 growth being 2x of logic semis, and it seems like we are pretty much on track to that. Are we going to keep that kind of momentum going into next year also? Or do you think that there will be a little bit more of a normalization in terms of growth as we look at next year?

好的。我認為上次我們談到 2021 年的增長是邏輯半成品的 2 倍，看起來我們已經走上了正軌。我們是否也會在明年保持這種勢頭？或者你認為我們明年的增長會更加正常化嗎？

Yes. I think 2x logic semi growth is still our goal, and we are very confident that we will continue to reach that goal because the overall demand is strong. And on top of the unit growth that we mentioned in the industry, we're also seeing increasing outsourcing. We're expecting to continue to gain market share. A lot of this really push for growth coming into next year. So we're very, very confident that we will continue to reach that goal.

是的。我認為 2 倍邏輯半增長仍然是我們的目標，我們非常有信心繼續實現這一目標，因為整體需求強勁。除了我們在行業中提到的單位增長之外，我們還看到越來越多的外包。我們預計將繼續獲得市場份額。其中很多確實推動了明年的增長。所以我們非常非常有信心我們將繼續實現這一目標。

Understood. Let's say, we -- hypothetically at least, we get a downturn at some point and utilization rates go back to be 70%, 75% from the high 80% that we have for many of the parts of the supply chain. What would happen to -- like how do you think the long-term loading agreements and price increases behave? Are there any kind of riders in your contracts with your customers where there could be some of these price increases that you have seen get rolled back. I just wanted to understand how -- I think how the next downturn will look like and how different it is going to be from previous downturn?

明白了。比方說，我們 - 至少假設，我們在某個時候出現低迷，利用率從供應鏈許多部分的 80% 高位回落到 70% 到 75%。會發生什麼——比如你認為長期裝載協議和價格上漲的表現如何？您與客戶簽訂的合同中是否有任何類型的附加條款，您可能會看到其中一些價格上漲被回滾。我只是想了解——我認為下一次經濟衰退會是什麼樣子，與之前的經濟衰退有多大不同？

Well, of course, the long-term agreement, what it means is really a more predictable volume as well as our pricing for a longer-term period. It does create another layer of buffer for both of our customers as well as us. But then I don't see we're expecting any major downturn coming anytime soon because the -- like I said, the new application is still at their early stage, and then we're seeing tremendous opportunities in terms of unit growth. Plus, our leading position today, we will get there. The -- not only the outsourcing trend is continuing or accelerating. We will get the lion's share of that. And also, given our position, we would believe that we will continue to gain market share. So all that creates a very strong support to our continuing growth.

好吧，當然，長期協議，它的意思實際上是更可預測的數量以及我們長期的定價。它確實為我們的客戶和我們雙方創造了另一層緩衝。但是我認為我們預計不會很快出現任何重大衰退，因為 - 就像我說的那樣，新應用程序仍處於早期階段，然後我們在單位增長方面看到了巨大的機會。另外，我們今天的領先地位，我們將到達那裡。 - 不僅外包趨勢正在持續或加速。我們將獲得最大的份額。而且，鑑於我們的地位，我們相信我們將繼續獲得市場份額。因此，所有這些都為我們的持續增長提供了非常強大的支持。

Got it. Last question from my side. I mean, how should we think about CapEx for next -- it looks like CapEx is likely to go down next year. Now your EBITDA has also improved quite a bit over the last several quarters. Any indications on how you're going to be using that increased EBITDA? Are we going to see a significant increase in dividends? Or is it primarily for debt repayment? I just wanted to understand both on the CapEx side and use of EBITDA as we go into next year?

知道了。我這邊的最後一個問題。我的意思是，我們應該如何考慮接下來的資本支出——看起來資本支出明年可能會下降。現在，您的 EBITDA 在過去幾個季度中也有了很大改善。關於您將如何使用增加的 EBITDA 的任何跡象？我們會看到股息顯著增加嗎？還是主要是為了償還債務？我只是想了解明年的資本支出和 EBITDA 的使用？

Well, I think it's a little bit too early to talk about our CapEx for next year, but I can say that we will continue to make the necessary investments into -- at the appropriate capacity to meet our customer needs. At this point, it is also true that our cash flow situation continues to improve, and we're expecting further improvement into next year. At this point, we are -- we don't have a fixed trend on how do we want to utilize that cash flow, but it really depends on the opportunity. When it prevails, we will make the year sort of usage of this cash.

好吧，我認為現在談論我們明年的資本支出還為時過早，但我可以說我們將繼續進行必要的投資——以適當的能力滿足我們的客戶需求。在這一點上，我們的現金流狀況繼續改善也是事實，我們預計明年會進一步改善。在這一點上，我們 - 我們沒有關於如何利用現金流的固定趨勢，但這真的取決於機會。當它盛行時，我們將按年度使用這筆現金。

We have a question from Mr. Randy Abrams of Crédit Suisse.

我們有一個來自瑞士信貸的 Randy Abrams 先生的問題。

Okay. Yes, I wanted to ask a couple of clarifications, 2 remarks. You mentioned for fourth quarter that you're still -- or I should say, overall, you mentioned you're still trying to catch up to demand for IC ATM that you're guiding fourth quarter flat. So is that a function of your supply constraints being able to ship more? Or is it a mismatch on where you have capacity? I know it's been a strong year to date. But if you're catching up to demand wise, it wouldn't be growing further into fourth quarter.

好的。是的，我想問一些澄清，2 評論。您在第四季度提到您仍然 - 或者我應該說，總體而言，您提到您仍在努力滿足您在第四季度持平的 IC ATM 需求。那麼，這是您的供應限制能夠運送更多產品的功能嗎？還是你的能力不匹配？我知道這是一個強勁的一年。但是，如果您要明智地趕上需求，那麼到第四季度它就不會進一步增長。

I think the -- first of all, I think the fourth quarter is really a typical quarter for us. And just also coming off a very stronger-than-expected third quarter. So I don't see -- we're not seeing anything of normal at this point. And yes, the shortage does create some problem for us, for us to continue to bring more shipments out. So I think it's a combination of coming off a stronger-than-expected third quarter as well as continue to have some material or even wafer shortages that we're seeing.

我認為 - 首先，我認為第四季度對我們來說確實是一個典型的季度。而且剛剛結束了一個非常強於預期的第三季度。所以我看不到 - 我們目前沒有看到任何正常情況。是的，短缺確實給我們帶來了一些問題，讓我們繼續運送更多的貨物。因此，我認為這是第三季度表現強於預期以及我們看到的繼續存在一些材料甚至晶圓短缺的組合。

And to follow up on the CapEx question, should we think of it this year -- I think you still talked about a bit of moderation, like still healthy growth cycle, but moderation. Is that the view we should think on the overall spending though, that this was probably a high point for what you need to put in or add in some moderation? And then would there be a shift where it's been a huge catch-up? And I think your bonders have been up about 20%, so like a shift in mix towards advanced packaging and test or do you think pretty similar?

為了跟進資本支出問題，我們今年是否應該考慮一下 - 我認為你仍然談到了一點溫和，比如仍然健康的增長周期，但是溫和。這是我們應該考慮的總體支出的觀點嗎，這可能是你需要投入或適度增加的一個高點？然後會有一個巨大的追趕的轉變嗎？而且我認為您的粘合機已經上漲了約 20%，所以就像向高級封裝和測試的混合轉變，還是您認為非常相似？

Yes. I think for next year, I think the -- more of the way will be put on advance packaging as well as test. I think we'll continue to see making progress in terms of raising our turnkey ratio. So we're seeing a pretty good potential for us to grow our test business going forward. Advanced, even starting from the third quarter, we're seeing advanced packaging to start picking up their pace comparing to wirebonding, although both we're still seeing growth. So next year, I think more will be spent. This year, we kind of doubled our CapEx for wirebonding. And next year, I think the pattern will be shifting somewhat to more to advanced packaging as well as test.

是的。我認為明年，我認為更多的方式將放在預先包裝和測試上。我認為我們將繼續看到在提高統包率方面取得進展。因此，我們看到了未來發展測試業務的巨大潛力。先進，即使從第三季度開始，我們看到先進封裝與引線鍵合相比開始加快步伐，儘管我們仍然看到增長。所以明年，我想會花更多的錢。今年，我們在引線鍵合方面的資本支出增加了一倍。明年，我認為這種模式將在某種程度上轉向更先進的封裝和測試。

And I'm not sure if I missed it. With the spending level be, I guess, direction, it feels like after growing a good bit this year. Maybe the -- it feels like maybe down a bit next year?

我不確定我是否錯過了它。我猜隨著支出水平的方向，感覺就像今年增長了很多。也許 - 感覺明年可能會有所下降？

I think it's -- we're still in the budgeting cycle, and we're seeing -- we're looking at how the business will come in, and we'll try to come up with the suitable CapEx budget for the year. Right now, I think it's kind of too early to say how much down or how much up we'll have on CapEx for next year. One thing is for sure that we will continue to invest. And I think there's still a lot of other pent-up demand for us to catch up with.

我認為這是 - 我們仍處於預算週期，我們正在觀察 - 我們正在研究業務將如何進入，我們將嘗試為今年提出合適的資本支出預算。現在，我認為現在說我們明年的資本支出會下降多少或上升多少還為時過早。一件事是肯定的，我們將繼續投資。而且我認為我們還有很多其他被壓抑的需求要趕上。

And to follow up, 2 parts. One, you mentioned share gains, is there a certain part is a view generally across the business? Or is there a certain area you're seeing particular market share strength?

並跟進，2 部分。一，你提到了股票收益，有沒有一部分是整個行業普遍的看法？或者您是否在某個領域看到了特定的市場份額優勢？

I think the -- given the position that we're in, I think the -- and the outsourcing is -- we're seeing outsourcing picking up, and the reason why it's picking up is because a lot of the -- there are some market share changes or our business model changes among our customers. So some of the new products that's coming out will be outsourced rather than being done in-house. And we will get the lion's shares of that. And from that point on, I think we will continue to gain market share.

我認為 - 考慮到我們所處的位置，我認為 - 外包是 - 我們看到外包正在增加，它之所以增加的原因是因為很多 - 有我們的客戶之間的一些市場份額變化或我們的商業模式變化。因此，一些即將推出的新產品將外包，而不是在內部完成。我們將獲得最大的份額。從那時起，我認為我們將繼續獲得市場份額。

Okay. I guess, in terms of -- I'm just trying to think of the products, like for -- like is there a way to think -- are these like more compute, like high-performance compute area?

好的。我想，就 - 我只是想考慮產品，比如 - 有沒有辦法思考 - 這些是否更像計算，比如高性能計算領域？

I think it's all across the board. I think in terms of automotive, I think we're making very, very strong progress, and we'll continue to gain share on that front for communication and for high-performance computing. I think the -- when the industry go into more advanced nodes, I think we will be able to grab most of the business opportunities coming out.

我認為這一切都是全面的。我認為在汽車方面，我認為我們正在取得非常非常強勁的進展，我們將繼續在通信和高性能計算方面獲得份額。我認為——當行業進入更先進的節點時，我認為我們將能夠抓住大部分出現的商機。

For automotive, your sales up. I think you said 68%. What's your take in terms of -- for your business catching up on supply because there's been downstream limiting quite a bit of vehicle production or even to the point there might be a slowdown. There's a good content story, but how do you feel in terms of catching up or how you see continued growth out of automotive?

對於汽車，您的銷量上升。我想你說的是 68%。你的看法是什麼——因為你的企業正在趕上供應，因為下游限制了相當多的汽車生產，甚至可能會放緩。有一個很好的內容故事，但是您對趕上的感覺如何，或者您如何看待汽車行業的持續增長？

I think the industry is really scrambled to increase the, I believe, wafer supply for automotive. And on our end, we are very, very aggressive in terms of further automating our factories to which are more suitable for automotive parts. And I think from both directions, I think the target was a very, very good opportunity to continue to expand our automotive part of the business.

我認為該行業確實在爭先恐後地增加汽車的晶圓供應。就我們而言，我們在進一步實現更適合汽車零部件的工廠自動化方面非常非常積極。我認為從兩個方向來看，我認為目標是一個非常非常好的機會，可以繼續擴展我們的汽車業務。

Great. And just a couple, the demand softness in some segments, are there particular areas you're seeing a bit of that softness show up?

偉大的。只是一對夫婦，某些細分市場的需求疲軟，您是否看到某些特定領域出現了這種疲軟？

Well, I think everybody is talking about the PC, talking about the Android-based cellphones. The sell-through in China is not as strong as we're expecting. But I think, overall, in terms of units, both cell phone and PC are still growing. I mean, it's not that it's collapsing now. So we're seeing that continuing at a healthy level. And also, even with these products, that seem to have some weakness of demand. Bear in mind, the IC content of these devices continue to grow. So this will still be a very strong demand segment for us.

嗯，我想每個人都在談論 PC，談論基於 Android 的手機。中國的銷售沒有我們預期的那麼強勁。但我認為，總體而言，就單位而言，手機和個人電腦都在增長。我的意思是，這不是它現在正在崩潰。因此，我們看到這種情況繼續保持在健康的水平。而且，即使有了這些產品，它們的需求似乎也有些疲軟。請記住，這些設備的 IC 內容會繼續增長。所以這對我們來說仍然是一個非常強勁的需求部分。

Okay. And the last question, just on the EMS business with the pushouts and a lot of the manufacturing, I see constraints. Should that be the expectation? You mentioned IC ATM above seasonal. Is there -- are you seeing that potential shift where some production pushes out to first quarter?

好的。最後一個問題，就 EMS 業務而言，我看到了一些限制。這應該是期望嗎？你在季節性上面提到了 IC ATM。是否存在——你是否看到了一些生產推遲到第一季度的潛在轉變？

Do you mean for us, for the ATM?

你的意思是為我們，為自動取款機？

Yes, for your EMS business.

是的，對於您的 EMS 業務。

Yes, there is some push out to the first quarter, and so we're expecting a better than seasonal quarter for EMS as well.

是的，第一季度會有一些延遲，因此我們預計 EMS 的季度也會好於季節性季度。

Next question is from Mr. Charlie Chan of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的陳查理先生。

So my question is about the share gain, right? I mean, apparently, starting from June, there was some lockdown for South Asia biggest facility, in particular in Malaysia. Does the company see kind of order transfer from customers there? And now it seems like in Malaysia, the fab is recovering. Do you think that you can retain those transferred orders?

所以我的問題是關於股票收益，對吧？我的意思是，顯然，從 6 月開始，南亞最大的設施，特別是在馬來西亞，出現了一些封鎖。公司是否看到那裡客戶的訂單轉移？現在看來，在馬來西亞，工廠正在復蘇。您認為您可以保留那些轉移的訂單嗎？

All our factories are running pretty full. So it's a bit difficult to move the volume around for us. Yes, there was a bit of a disruption in the Southeast Asia size of ours, but I think the situation is under control now. And I think they're back to normal. I think the overall impact is quite small for us.

我們所有的工廠都運行得很滿。所以對我們來說移動音量有點困難。是的，我們在東南亞的規模有些混亂，但我認為現在情況已經得到控制。我認為他們已經恢復正常。我認為對我們的整體影響很小。

Okay. And then now we start to hear, as you said, the substrate is kind of a big constraint. And it seems like ASE also have your own substrate supply, right? So how soon do you think those lead frame supply can stabilize and catch up the customers' demand?

好的。然後現在我們開始聽到，正如你所說，基板是一個很大的限制。看來 ASE 也有自己的基板供應，對吧？那麼您認為這些引線框架供應多久可以穩定並趕上客戶的需求？

You are referring to lead frame?

你指的是引線框架？

Lead frame or substrates.

引線框架或基板。

What we have is substrates, and it does create a good buffer for us to manage our overall substrate supply. Right now, we're at about some -- like 20% of our internal use is being supplied by ourselves. And we are -- I think the factories are -- substrate factories are running very full at this time. And they are also scrambled to add capacity to help solve the situation for us.

我們擁有的是基材，它確實為我們管理整體基材供應創造了良好的緩衝。現在，我們大約有 20% 的內部使用是由我們自己提供的。我們 - 我認為工廠是 - 基板工廠目前正在運行非常滿。他們也爭先恐後地增加能力來幫助我們解決問題。

Okay. And so the frame, you need to source from third party, right? And several IC, IDM they continue to refer to that (inaudible) in a bigger shortage right now. So any color on that? I mean the different supply whether they can catch up the demand.

好的。所以框架，你需要從第三方採購，對吧？還有幾個 IC，IDM，他們現在繼續提到（聽不清）在更大的短缺中。那上面有什麼顏色嗎？我的意思是不同的供應是否能趕上需求。

I hear here and there from some of our sites that there seems to be a little bit -- the difference of IC seems to be a little bit choppy. But I think, overall, the situation is still being managed quite well. I think -- I don't think there's any big progress in terms of lead frame supply.

我從我們的一些網站上聽到這里和那裡似乎有一點——IC 的差異似乎有點不穩定。但我認為，總體而言，情況仍然得到很好的管理。我認為 - 我認為引線框架供應方面沒有任何重大進展。

Okay. Okay. And lastly, I know the company maintained CapEx in work under installation, right, but I'm not sure why. But previously, there was some industry cater about wider on the pushback. And if you look at -- not your major supplier, right, but the Asia Pacific, their PB ratio dropped to 0.9 for the third quarter. It seems like a booking for wirebond is coming down. Can you help us to understand what was going on here? Do you really need to push out somehow work under?

好的。好的。最後，我知道該公司在安裝中維持資本支出，對，但我不知道為什麼。但此前，有一些行業迎合了更廣泛的阻力。如果你看看——不是你的主要供應商，對，而是亞太地區，他們的 PB 比率在第三季度下降到 0.9。似乎對引線鍵合的預訂正在下降。你能幫助我們了解這裡發生了什麼嗎？你真的需要以某種方式推出工作嗎？

I think we are on track with our foundry installation for the year. I think what we mentioned earlier on is that we expect to have some delivery by October, and we are getting there. We're on track on that. And we believe that will be continuous -- we'll continue to make investments. But on the boundary itself, it's more -- it's balanced now. It's more balanced now. There's the -- the line balancing equipment is still lagging. And in fourth quarter, we will continue to add those capacity or line balancing purposes. Next year, there's still quite a bit of demand that we -- quite a bit of requirement that we will have for wirebonding, particularly when we're seeing that wirebonding business will continue to grow in the -- particularly in the automotive segment. So there's going to be further demand from us.

我認為我們今年的鑄造廠安裝工作正在步入正軌。我認為我們之前提到的是我們希望在 10 月之前有一些交付，我們正在實現目標。我們正朝著這個方向前進。我們相信這將是持續的——我們將繼續進行投資。但就邊界本身而言，它更多——它現在是平衡的。現在更平衡了。還有——生產線平衡設備仍然滯後。在第四季度，我們將繼續增加這些容量或線路平衡的目的。明年，我們仍然有相當多的需求 - 我們將對引線鍵合有相當多的要求，特別是當我們看到引線鍵合業務將繼續增長時 - 特別是在汽車領域。所以我們會有更多的需求。

Great. And yes, so it would be super helpful if you can provide that were on the lead time as it did over the past 3 quarters for those to get a sense.

偉大的。是的，所以如果你能像過去 3 個季度那樣在交貨時間上提供這些信息，這將是非常有幫助的，以便讓人們有所了解。

Lead time, I think it's maybe 3 to 6 months.

交貨時間，我認為可能是3到6個月。

Okay. Yes, it seems there's a tight sway. Okay, okay. How about those flip-chip equipment? Do you feel like it's still very, very difficult to get flip-chip related capacity? Or is it quite available, meaning the first year for cases?

好的。是的，似乎有一個緊密的搖擺。好吧好吧。那些倒裝芯片設備呢？您是否覺得獲得倒裝芯片相關產能仍然非常非常困難？或者它是否完全可用，這意味著案件的第一年？

I think the overall situation is that the equipment lead time is still long because there's still a lot of mismatches in the whole value chain. So it's kind of difficult to predict how long this lead time will -- how long lead time situation will resolve itself, how long it will take.

我認為總體情況是設備的交貨期還很長，因為整個價值鏈還存在很多不匹配的問題。所以很難預測這個提前期會有多長時間 - 提前期情況會自行解決，需要多長時間。

(Operator Instructions) We have a question from Mr. Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs.

（操作員說明）我們有一個來自高盛的 Bruce Lu 先生的問題。

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

I think we're having some technical issues with this.

我認為我們在這方面遇到了一些技術問題。

Bruce, can you hear me? Please unmute your microphone from your side.

布魯斯，你能聽到我說話嗎？請從您身邊取消麥克風靜音。

We have questions from Mr. Jeff Ohlweiler. Mr. Jeff Ohlweiler, please unmute your microphone.

我們有來自 Jeff Ohlweiler 先生的問題。 Jeff Ohlweiler 先生，請取消麥克風靜音。

I think we're having some technical challenges with the conferencing system. Apologies on that. I think we -- for lack of any way to get these questions, and I think we're going to have to conclude the call at this time. All right. Thank you very much for attending, and we will -- we look forward to talking to you soon. Thank you.

我認為我們在會議系統方面遇到了一些技術挑戰。對此表示歉意。我認為我們 - 因為缺乏任何方法來回答這些問題，我認為我們將不得不在這個時候結束電話會議。好的。非常感謝您的出席，我們將 - 我們期待很快與您交談。謝謝你。