艾司摩爾 (ASML) 2003 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the ASML first quarter results 2003 conference call on the 16th of April 2003. Throughout today's recorded presentation all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. If any participants have difficulty hearing the conference, please press the star key followed by the zero on your push-button phone for operator assistance.

各位女士、先生，感謝您保持在線。歡迎參加 ASML 於 2003 年 4 月 16 日舉行的 2003 年第一季業績電話會議。在今天的錄音簡報期間，所有與會者將以僅聆聽模式參與。簡報結束後，將提供提問的機會。若任何與會者在收聽會議時遇到困難，請在按鍵式電話上按星號鍵後再按 0，以取得接線員協助。

I would now like to turn the conference to Mr. Doug Dunn. Thank you, sir, please go ahead.

現在我想把會議交給 Doug Dunn 先生。謝謝您，先生，請開始。

Thank you. Well good morning or good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, wherever you are in the world. Thank you for joining. The intention today is to spend the next hour really answering your questions, but I will kick off by giving kind of a brief introduction. And then I'll throw the microphone over to you so you may ask us the questions you wish.

謝謝。各位女士、先生，無論您身在世界何處，早安或午安。感謝各位加入。今天的用意是接下來一小時主要用來回答各位的問題，不過我會先做一個簡短的開場。接著我會把麥克風交給各位，讓各位提出想問的問題。

I will begin then by saying that the first quarter was, I don't know what the word is here, a dull first quarter for the industry and the sector. And we therefore had a rather dull set of numbers to report based on that. The features of Q1 were, I think, were mostly emphasized by customer's indecision to embark on new investments.

我先說，第一季對整個產業與本板塊而言，我不知道該用什麼詞形容，是一個相當平淡的第一季。因此，我們要報告的數字也相對平淡。我認為第一季的特徵主要在於客戶對於是否啟動新投資仍舉棋不定。

It has nothing to do with ASML products which is still in great demand relatively speaking. In fact, some analysts would say we're still gaining market share, although I can't prove that at this point in time. But our customers certainly are, by and large, reluctant to place new orders of great significance. They're placing a broad range one and two here and there. The exception to that has been, I think, a couple of Dion (ph) customers who have come in with relatively large orders, relatively large. Although, I use the word relatively very advisedly there.

這與 ASML 產品無關；相對而言，我們的產品需求仍然很強。事實上，有些分析師會說我們仍在擴大市占，雖然我目前還無法證明。但我們的客戶整體而言，確實不太願意下達具有重大規模的新訂單。他們只是零星地下些一台、兩台的訂單。我想例外是有一兩家 Dion（音）客戶下了相對較大的訂單，算是相對較大。不過我在這裡使用「相對」這個詞是非常審慎的。

But by and large the main bulk of rich customer base are holding on major investments and I guess that's no surprise to anyone. I took heartening news from the Intel and TI comments and they intend to maintain their investments this year, the present level in their revised budgets. That I think is good news. The issue that we face, of course, is now a quarter of the areas behind us, behind the industry. And with the exception of one or two notable companies, most of our customers are not spending any linear rate. In fact, if you look take an average $1 billion company, they're spending far less than a quarter of a billion in the first quarter. Therefore, clearly they're waiting to see, and they're also, I believe, still trying to fill their existing capacity, which therefore suggests a stronger second half and probably a stronger fourth quarter within that second half. But all of that remains to be as we go through the year.

但總體而言，我們龐大的客戶群主要仍在暫緩重大投資，我想這對任何人都不意外。我從 Intel 與 TI 的評論中得到一些令人振奮的消息：他們打算在今年、在修訂後的預算中，維持目前的投資水準。我認為這是好消息。當然，我們面臨的問題是：我們現在已經落後產業一季的節奏。除了少數一兩家值得注意的公司外，我們大多數客戶的支出並未呈現線性成長。事實上，如果你看一家平均規模約 10 億美元的公司，他們第一季的支出遠低於 2.5 億美元。因此很明顯，他們是在觀望；而且我相信他們仍在努力填滿既有產能，這也意味著下半年會更強，且下半年中的第四季可能更強。但這一切仍有待我們在今年推進過程中觀察。

So the interest rate is still extremely cautious. I call it flat. I call it dull, but it's not boring, that's for sure. And we've done, I think, the right things from ASML's point of view to continue making the progress that we have to make. And despite the flat level of sales, the kind of dull sales level, it is significantly up on the first quarter of last year, significantly up as you have seen. And we've been able to fill from that some cash as our continuing trend to build through this year our cash balance up towards that we'd advocated in the middle of last year.

所以市場情緒仍然極度謹慎。我稱之為持平。我稱之為平淡，但肯定不無聊。我認為從 ASML 的角度，我們已做了正確的事情，持續推動我們必須達成的進展。儘管銷售水準持平、相對平淡，但如各位所見，與去年第一季相比仍顯著成長。而且我們也因此能夠產生一些現金，延續我們在今年持續把現金餘額提升到去年年中所倡議目標的趨勢。

But I thought I'd ride around that slightly, just slightly. Clearly around the building it's still the number we're aiming at and we think it's very doable. This, of course, require the market to continue at least at its present level, and hopefully and not too optimistically improve as the year goes by as we all expect it will. So we're not coming away from that number. And I guess the range for me is just under a billion to a billion. And if the market picks up, as some suggest, just over a billion and that's what we intend to do still this year.

不過我想對那個目標稍微修正一下，只是稍微。很明顯，那仍是我們在公司內部努力達成的數字，而且我們認為非常可行。當然，這需要市場至少維持在目前水準，並且希望（不過不要過度樂觀）隨著年度推進如我們所預期般有所改善。所以我們不會偏離那個數字。我想對我而言的區間是略低於 10 億到 10 億。如果市場回升，如部分人士所說，可能略高於 10 億，而這仍是我們今年打算達成的。

The discontinued operations, just to dismiss them fairly quickly are going to topline (ph) if that's the right word here. And the thermal (ph) operation we implied and in fact I said we'd sell probably in the first half of this year. I also said that if it took a quarter longer, that's no big deal from my point-of-view. I'd rather get a good sell that offered the customer's of those products a good future rather than a quick sell. And it certainly will not be early in the second quarter. It could happen late in the second quarter or even the third quarter. And I don't think we should worry too much about that.

至於已停止營運的業務，簡單帶過：將會「topline（音）」——如果這裡用這個詞是對的話。而我們所提到的 thermal（音）業務，事實上我也說過，我們大概會在今年上半年出售。我也說過，如果多花一季時間，從我的角度看也不是什麼大事。我寧可做一筆好的出售交易，讓那些產品的客戶有良好的未來，而不是急就章地出售。而且肯定不會在第二季初完成。可能在第二季末發生，甚至第三季。我認為我們不需要為此過度擔心。

We've got the cost of the operations now down to a very - a satisfactory underlying level. I've been giving first quarter 13 million was set against those operations, but a significant part of that was some extra - with the finishing off of the redundancy program and also a reevaluation of some real estate in California. And we expect that to come down to roughly half that amount for subsequent quarters, probably even better.

我們已把該業務的營運成本降到一個非常——令人滿意的基礎水準。我一直提到第一季有 1,300 萬的費用歸屬於那些業務，但其中相當一部分是額外項目——包括裁員計畫的收尾，以及對加州部分不動產的重新評估。我們預期後續季度會降到約一半，甚至可能更好。

You saw the continuing increase in average selling prices. And you'll have picked up also the disappointing gross margin. Gross margin is clearly effected by the dominant issues. The fact that we only sold 27 new systems in the quarter, therefore, we have earned the recovery of our factor fixed overhead which is not insubstantial. Clearly, that's an issue. And that won't go away until this market increases. But we do have to provide some of those reserve capacities. So taking our factory utilization and level down to 27 systems would not allow us to do more in the next quarter, so we have to keep that slightly higher so we are doing so for. So that's a significant part of the gross margin problem.

各位也看到平均售價持續上升。同時各位也注意到令人失望的毛利率。毛利率顯然受到幾個主導因素影響。我們本季只賣出 27 套新系統，因此工廠固定製造費用的吸收（回收）不足，而這個金額並不小。這顯然是一個問題。在市場回升之前，這個問題不會消失。但我們確實必須保留部分備援產能。因此，若把工廠稼動率與產出水準降到 27 套，將無法在下一季做得更多；所以我們必須把水準維持得稍高一些，我們也正是這麼做的。因此，這是毛利率問題的重要部分。

We're also seeing - for those who sit on these calls regularly you recognize that a relatively small amount of grant repayment to the Dutch government that comes to an end in Q2. The other dominant factor along with overhead recovery of lack of it was a mix. If you look at the mix of TWINSCAN in the first quarter build and sales it's very high compared to any previous quarter. And unfortunately, in the early days of the product, that has a depressing effect on gross margin, also. And the third element of gross margin disappointment was an honest appraisal of the fact that there's very few orders right there. And we are fighting tooth and nail for everyone to maintain or even grow our market share. And therefore, we're giving slightly greater discounts than we would normally wish to give to our products to ensure that we don't allow our competitors to encroach in our space.

我們也看到——對於經常參加這些電話會議的人來說，你們會知道：有一筆相對小額的荷蘭政府補助款返還，將在第二季結束。另一個主導因素（連同固定費用吸收不足）是產品組合。如果你看第一季 TWINSCAN 的生產與銷售組合，占比相較以往任何季度都非常高。不幸的是，在產品推出初期，這也會對毛利率造成壓抑。而毛利率令人失望的第三個因素，是我們坦率評估後發現：眼前的訂單非常少。我們正為每一筆訂單全力以赴，以維持甚至擴大市占。因此，我們給出的折扣比平常希望給的略大一些，以確保不讓競爭對手侵入我們的領域。

So those three items with the small addition of the Dutch of the TOK grant were the sole contributors to our disappointing gross margin. What's going to happen in the future, I think is a function of the market volume. As the volume increases to our operation, then clearly the gross margin will increase and quite substantially through overall recovery.

所以，這三項因素，再加上荷蘭 TOK 補助的小幅影響，就是造成我們毛利率令人失望的全部原因。未來會如何，我認為取決於市場量。隨著我們營運的出貨量增加，毛利率將會上升，而且會因整體固定費用吸收改善而相當顯著地提升。

OK. Let me just look at what other points I want to raise in a general front. So let's talk a bit about the rest of the year, then. And as you know, we're not in a position of knowledge to give guidance and therefore, we won't give guidance. We're just telling what we know. It's pretty clear now from all our customers who we're in contact with, that the second quarter is going to be a dullish second quarter as well. It's equally clear that the second half is relatively an unknown and un-chartered waters.

好的。我先看看在整體層面還有哪些要點想提出。那我們來談談今年剩下的時間。如各位所知，我們並不具備足夠資訊來提供財測指引，因此我們不會提供指引。我們只會說明我們所知道的情況。從我們所有正在接觸的客戶回饋來看，現在相當明確的是，第二季也會是相對低迷的一季。同樣明確的是，下半年相對而言仍是未知且未曾涉足的水域。

And given the capital budgets of our customers, and given the slow rate at which they're spending it, there's every possibility for a significant upturn in the second half. And that is merely a possibility. There's no factual evidence yet to prove that. When there is you will know pretty quick afterwards.

而考量到客戶的資本預算，以及他們支出速度偏慢的情況，下半年出現顯著回升的可能性是存在的。但那僅僅是一種可能性。目前還沒有事實證據可以證明。一旦有了，你們很快就會在之後不久得知。

So the second quarter is going to be a kind of, you know, a dullish second quarter. And the second half has a lot of hope built in to it. And I personally feel that this has to break at some point in time. And later this year, we're going to see signs of it breaking it in to a more positive mode. Whether that comes through and dramatically changes our year profile we won't know. It requires customer to get to a high level of utilization before they place orders. And having placed the orders we've got to spend a few months making the equipment. So you can see it could easily move from the third to fourth or fourth to first quarter of next year. But we won't know that yet for another six to eight weeks. So when talk again in a quarter's time we'll give you a better feeling for what the full year will be like and what the second half will be like.

所以第二季將會是某種，你知道的，相對低迷的第二季。而下半年則承載了很多希望。我個人覺得這種情況在某個時間點必須會出現轉折。而在今年稍晚，我們會看到一些跡象，顯示它正轉向更正面的模式。至於那是否會落實並大幅改變我們全年的走勢，我們還不知道。這需要客戶的產能利用率達到較高水準後才會下單。而在下單之後，我們還需要花幾個月來製造設備。所以你可以看到，它很容易從第三季延到第四季，或從第四季延到明年第一季。但我們還要再過六到八週才會知道。因此等我們在一季後再談時，我們會對全年以及下半年的情況給你們更好的感受。

I think at that point I've made the general comments I want to make. And I'm prepared to pass the floor to our administrator to those who wish to have questions. And we're here until 6:30 central European time to answer those questions.

我想到這裡，我已經把想說的一般性評論都說完了。我準備把時間交給我們的主持人，讓想提問的人發問。我們會在中歐時間 6:30 前都在這裡回答問題。

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time we will begin the question-and-answer session. If you have a question, please press star followed by one on your push button phone. If you wish to cancel your request please press star followed by two. Your questions will be answered in the order they are received. If you are using speaking equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selection. One moment please for the first question.

謝謝您，先生。各位女士、先生，現在我們將開始問答環節。如您有問題，請在按鍵式電話上按星號再按 1。如您希望取消提問請求，請按星號再按 2。我們將依收到的順序回答各位的問題。如果您今天使用的是免持設備，請在做出選擇前先拿起話筒。請稍候，我們接通第一個問題。

The first question comes from Mr. Jan Vilan Vardous (ph). Please state your company name, followed by your question.

第一個問題來自 Jan Vilan Vardous 先生（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出您的問題。

Yes, good afternoon. It's Campan and Co (ph). You mentioned several factors that would influence the gross margin or have influenced the gross margin in the first quarter. Can you give any idea of the level of price pressure you're experiencing right now. And if you cannot give that number can you sort of indicate what the product mix effect is. And is the, for example, in TWINSCAN below 20 percent? Or is the difference between TWINSCAN and normal 200 millimeter tools more than five percent in gross margin. Can you give an indication on that effect please?

是的，午安。我是 Campan and Co（音）。您提到有幾個因素會影響毛利率，或在第一季已影響毛利率。您能否說明一下目前您所感受到的價格壓力大概在什麼程度？如果您無法給出那個數字，能否大致說明產品組合效應是什麼？例如，TWINSCAN 是否低於 20%？或者 TWINSCAN 與一般 200 毫米機台之間的毛利率差異是否超過 5%？能否請您就這個影響給個指引？

OK. Well first of all, I forgot to say this by I'm ably assisted here Peter Wennink, myself and Craig DeYoung from our investor relations group. So I'm going to ask them to contribute their knowledge to these questions.

好的。首先，我剛才忘了說，我這邊有 Peter Wennink、我本人，以及我們投資人關係團隊的 Craig DeYoung 協助。所以我會請他們也就這些問題提供他們的看法。

Taking your questions for a moment, I'm not going to be precise on giving any numbers on this issue, but I will kind of talk generally on this issue. Q1 was really loaded with TWINSCAN as you will be aware. As it happens, and we haven't discussed backlog yet, I'm sure you're going to discuss it at some point in time, the Q2 backlog, the orders we have in the books right now which we think are pretty genuine for the second quarter have got a less TWINSCAN mix. That's just how it happens with the lumpiness of various customers placing different orders. Nothing significant in that just how it happens in a relatively small volume business like a capital equipment company is.

先回應您的問題，我不會在這個議題上精確提供任何數字，但我會就此做一些概括性的說明。如您所知，第一季的出貨組合中 TWINSCAN 的比重很高。剛好我們還沒談到在手訂單（backlog），我相信你們在某個時間點會問到；就第二季的在手訂單而言，也就是我們目前帳上、我們認為相當確定會在第二季出貨的訂單，TWINSCAN 的組合比重較低。這只是因為不同客戶下單的時間點不一，造成訂單的波動性（lumpiness）。在像資本設備公司這種相對小量的業務中，這並不代表什麼重大意義，只是事情就是這樣發生。

So the second quarter gross margin will ...

所以第二季的毛利率將會……

ASPs.

平均銷售單價（ASP）。

Yes, sorry, ASPs will increase - will decrease because of the change in that. Also, therefore, possibly a small uplifting gross margin because of that, because the eight inch product has got more history and therefore more - further down the learning curve on that product.

是的，抱歉，平均銷售單價（ASP）會上升——會下降，因為這個變化。同時，因此毛利率可能會有小幅提升，因為 8 吋產品的歷史更久，因此在該產品上——也就是在學習曲線上走得更後面一些。

When it comes to competitive position around the world, you know it is to some extent also geographic and timely in nature. It's no secret, I think, that in Asia the price pressure tends to be somewhat higher than it is in the U.S.A. for all kinds of reasons we'll get in to. First of all the time of the year in which they've placed orders. A lot of the Asian companies are bigger than many of the U.S.A. companies, therefore, can command greater kind of pressure on pricing.

談到全球的競爭態勢，你知道，某種程度上也具有地理區域性與時間性的特徵。我想這不是秘密：在亞洲，價格壓力往往比在美國更高，原因有很多我們可以再深入。首先是他們下單的季節時點。許多亞洲公司規模比不少美國公司更大，因此能在定價上施加更大的壓力。

And so it's not an easy answer to tell you what the percentage is. It varies by customers based on the demand, based on the product mix, based on the options they want and based on the geography and based on the time of the year they place the orders now the competition is faced at that point in time. So I'm not going to try and give you any numbers there because it will probably help the people it shouldn't help, i.e. my competition, and won't help me at all. So that's not my incentive here.

因此，要告訴你一個百分比並不容易。它會因客戶而異，取決於需求、取決於產品組合、取決於他們想要的選配、取決於地理區域，也取決於他們下單的時間點以及當時面臨的競爭狀況。所以我不打算在這裡給你任何數字，因為那可能會幫到不該幫的人，也就是我的競爭對手，卻對我毫無幫助。所以我沒有那樣做的動機。

So if you will allow I'm going to be vague on those numbers because you can only give competition advantage.

所以如果你允許的話，我會在那些數字上保持模糊，因為你只能給競爭對手帶來優勢。

Right.

了解。

But I'd like to add something there. Let's make it quite clear that if we talk about pressure on the gross margin, the contributing factors are in, I would say descending order, the under utilization of the factory. Then it's mix. And then it's price pressure.

但我想在這裡補充一點。我們要很清楚地說，如果我們談毛利率的壓力，影響因素我會說依重要性遞減排序是：工廠產能利用不足。其次是產品組合。再來才是價格壓力。

Yes.

是的。

And I don't want - we don't want to go in to the price pressure issue because it does give in this market where we are competing for every order, some lead in to what our competitors think that they can offer. So we're not going to do that. But this is the descending order.

而且我不想——我們也不想——深入談價格壓力的議題，因為在這個市場裡我們為每一張訂單競爭，這會讓競爭對手對他們可以提出的報價有所依據。所以我們不會這麼做。但這就是重要性遞減的順序。

And therefore on the ascending order, the bigger the volume builds the more quickly the gross margin will recover.

因此反過來看，依重要性遞增的順序，出貨量越大，毛利率回升就會越快。

Yes.

是的。

OK. That's very clear. But - and can you still comment on let's say the difference between the gross margin of the newer TWINSCAN systems and the 200 millimeter systems?

好的。這非常清楚。但是——您仍然可以評論一下，例如較新的 TWINSCAN 系統與 200 毫米系統之間的毛利率差異嗎？

We have said before that the newer TWINSCAN systems because of their - of the, let's say point-in-time of their life have generally lower gross margin. But also given the fact that we are finding (ph) enough (ph) for (ph) everyone (ph) who weights 200 millimeter, 300 millimeter we're going to make public statements about the difference in gross margin between the two products. Because we know quite a lot about of comp earns (ph) and they know quite a lot about us. And it gives them the type of information that we don't want that to have.

我們之前已經說過，較新的 TWINSCAN 系統因為其—就其生命週期的某個時間點而言—通常毛利率較低。但也鑑於我們正在為（ph）足夠（ph）給（ph）每一位（ph）使用 200 毫米、300 毫米的人找到（ph），我們不會就兩種產品之間毛利率的差異發表公開聲明。因為我們對競爭對手（ph）了解很多，而他們也對我們了解很多。這會給他們我們不希望他們擁有的那類資訊。

But it is clear that the 300 millimeter products are in the first phase of their life. What we are - what we can say that we have targets of bringing our cost of good down. We're on that target. We are confident that we will reach those. And we are investigating currently every - at every opportunity to bring those cost further down. So we will be armed to, you know, fight a competitive battle.

但很清楚的是，300 毫米產品正處於其生命週期的第一階段。我們—我們能說的是，我們有把銷貨成本降下來的目標。我們正朝著那個目標前進。我們有信心會達成。而且我們目前正在把握每一個—在每一個機會上進一步降低那些成本。因此我們將具備、你知道的，打競爭戰的能力。

Yes, the price pressure, don't overestimate it. It is the third, of the three categories, effecting gross margin. We do have accelerated and very deep and serious cost reduction programs in place anyway which will allow us to make good gross margins, greater than 40 percent gross margins on TWINSCAN in a normal year. And in fact in a very good year, better still because these cost reductions won't go away but the prices will increase on the good years.

是的，價格壓力，不要高估它。它是影響毛利率的三大類因素中的第三項。無論如何，我們已經有加速且非常深入、嚴肅的成本降低計畫在進行，這將使我們在正常年度於 TWINSCAN 上能取得良好的毛利率，毛利率高於 40%。事實上，在非常好的年度會更好，因為這些成本降低不會消失，但在景氣好的年度價格會上升。

So first of all, we're not at all phased by the price pressure, you know, where we expected it. It's leaving up to our expectations. And we're also internally taking actions to make sure that we continue to stay ahead of this price pressure. And so don't overemphasize that one.

所以首先，我們完全不會被價格壓力影響，你知道的，這是在我們預期之內。它符合我們的預期。而且我們也在內部採取行動，確保我們持續領先於這個價格壓力。所以不要過度強調這一點。

All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Robert Mayer (ph). Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Robert Mayer 先生（ph）。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Yes, Semiconductorequipment.com. Could you tell us -we've heard from other companies as to the impact on SARS on their business. I would assume that given your business is longer term, longer lead time, longer sales cycle that you should be somewhat less impacted than most but perhaps you can tell us about that, and particularly over the last few weeks what the impact has been.

是的，Semiconductorequipment.com。您能否告訴我們—我們聽其他公司談到 SARS 對其業務的影響。我想，鑑於你們的業務是較長期、交期較長、銷售週期較長，你們受到的影響應該比多數公司小一些，但也許你們可以談談這點，特別是過去幾週的影響如何。

And also, in terms of the business that you're doing and did in the quarter, could you give us sort of your sense as to what percentage of it was business with new customers or new systems or what percent was follow on? Was most of it sort of follow on or increases of existing systems? Or perhaps a little more detail?

另外，就你們正在做以及本季所做的業務而言，你們能否大致說明其中有多少比例是來自新客戶或新系統的業務，或有多少比例是後續追加？大部分是既有客戶的後續追加或既有系統的擴充嗎？或者能否提供更多細節？

Yes, OK. First of all, SARS I'm happy to report that so far we have maintained a high health record. We haven't had anyone here from the organization who - has SARS surfaced. And that's great news for everyone. We have put some sensible restrictions on travel clearly. Our customers are equally sensible in their lack of travel these days. And there was a major equipment show in Munich, as you may well know of, a week or two ago and that was poorly attended, partly because of SARS and partly because of Iraq.

好的。首先，關於 SARS，我很高興報告，到目前為止我們維持了很高的健康紀錄。我們組織內目前沒有任何人—出現 SARS 的情況。這對大家都是好消息。我們顯然對差旅採取了一些合理的限制。我們的客戶這段時間同樣很理性，減少出差。而且如你所知，一到兩週前在慕尼黑有一個大型設備展，出席率很低，部分原因是 SARS，部分原因是伊拉克。

To return to your question, I honestly don't believe that SARS has any significant effect on our business unlike the airlines and the hotels. You know, when you're building a $3 billion factory, despite the severe nature of this virus, you're going to go ahead and make those investments. And if need be, you're going to do it more video conferencing and more teleconferencing, but you're still going to make the investments and buy the equipment.

回到你的問題，我坦白說不認為 SARS 對我們的業務有任何顯著影響，不像航空公司和飯店那樣。你知道，當你在建一座 30 億美元的工廠時，儘管這種病毒很嚴重，你仍然會繼續進行那些投資。如果有需要，你會更多使用視訊會議和電話會議來進行，但你仍然會投資並購買設備。

So as far as I know it's had zero effect on real business. It has had quite a bit effect on our people who live in Hong Kong and so on. And they're being much more careful about their travel plans and their domestic arrangements. So I don't think there's any impact on with SARS.

所以就我所知，它對實際業務的影響是零。它對我們住在香港等地的人員影響比較大。他們在旅行計畫和日常安排上更加謹慎。所以我不認為 SARS 會有任何影響。

Yes, and you have to remember also, Robert, that we don't send people over when we ship those tools. We have local teams who do the installation. So we don't need to have a lot of people movement, you know, basically, you know, throughout the company if tools get shipped and get installed.

是的，而且你也要記得，Robert，我們在出貨那些設備時不會派人過去。我們有在地團隊負責安裝。因此如果設備出貨並完成安裝，我們不需要大量人員移動，你知道的，基本上在公司各地奔波。

So far 100 percent clean bill of health on that one. And regarding new co's - new customers and as opposed to your follow on, I think, and we're talking about first quarter here. And I think from memory and my colleagues may tell me I'm wrong but I don't think in the first quarter, we took on board any new customer. I'm pretty sure we did not. By the way, w got pretty good privilege of customers. So that's, you know, we don't take them on every five minutes.

到目前為止，在這方面是 100% 的健康無虞。至於新公司—新客戶相對於後續追加，我想我們談的是第一季。我記得—同事可能會說我記錯—但我認為第一季我們沒有新增任何客戶。我相當確定沒有。順帶一提，我們的客戶基礎相當不錯。所以，你知道的，我們不會每隔五分鐘就新增一個。

Regarding the business we did take some were follow one expansions to existing facilities. But I must say they're in the minority right now because most people are not expanding today's capacity. They're building new capacities as to the future. So most of the business that we took was with existing customers. And that was for the leading edge products, the high NA 248 and 193 nanometer (ph) tools on both wafer sizes, eight and 12 inch wafers. And that's, of course, where ASML has still a strong and distinct advantage in time. We're out in front of the competition. The competition has nothing at this point in time. Therefore, we're in that fairly unique position still so far.

至於我們承接的業務，有一部分是既有廠房的後續擴充。但我必須說，現在這類占比是少數，因為大多數人並沒有在擴充當前產能。他們是在為未來建置新產能。所以我們承接的大部分業務來自既有客戶。而且是針對領先製程產品，也就是高 NA 的 248 與 193 奈米（ph）設備，涵蓋兩種晶圓尺寸：8 吋與 12 吋晶圓。當然，這正是 ASML 仍然在時程上具有強大且明顯優勢的地方。我們領先競爭對手。競爭對手在目前這個時間點沒有任何東西。因此，到目前為止我們仍處於相當獨特的位置。

And of course or throughput and technical performance is superior to the competition, even if they make their paper tigers in to, you know, smaller pussycats. And so I guess to answer your question, we're still taking out just rewards at the high end. Therefore, it's existing customers in to new -, at the leading edge. That's what we're selling right now.

當然，我們的產能（throughput）與技術表現都優於競爭對手，即使他們把那些紙老虎變成、你知道的，小貓咪。所以我想回答你的問題，我們仍在高階市場獲得應得的回報。因此，是既有客戶導入新的—在最先進製程端。這就是我們目前在賣的。

OK. Great. Thank you very much.

好的。很好。非常感謝。

Our next question comes from Jean Danjou. Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Jean Danjou。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Hi, good afternoon. This Jean Danjou from CSFB. I have a couple of questions. The first one is on DRAM if I may. I see the share of Korea in the backlog dropping sequentially at the end of Q1 compared to the end Q4. But at the same time, memory is rising. Could it be the fact that you have shipped a lot to Korea new makers? And now it's kind of a pause going in to Q2. And you could have some of the DRAM manufacturers compensation? And then I have a follow up question.

嗨，午安。我是 CSFB 的 Jean Danjou。我有幾個問題。第一個是關於 DRAM，如果可以的話。我看到第一季末相較於第四季末，積壓訂單中韓國的占比連續下降。但同時，記憶體卻在上升。會不會是因為你們已經對韓國的新廠商出貨很多？而現在進入第二季有點暫停。而你們可能會有一些 DRAM 製造商的補償性需求？然後我還有一個追問。

Good. Yes, I mean - after you make your question long there, but answer wrong, this is as short answer, really you're actually right. You know, as one customer is satiated, if you like, for the time being and gets down to making our equipment work. The other customers find the need to invest and therefore they come on screen and that's what happened here.

好。是的，我的意思是——你把問題問得很長，但答案卻錯了；其實用簡短回答，你反而是對的。你知道，就像某個客戶如果你願意這麼說，暫時已經滿足了，接著就著手讓我們的設備運轉起來。其他客戶則發現需要投資，因此他們就會出現在檯面上，而這裡發生的就是這種情況。

OK. Have you got any visibility on this one customer not taking time to install coming back for extensions? Or do you think that is too difficult to call at this time?

好的。對於這位客戶沒有花時間安裝、之後回來追加擴充訂單這件事，你們有任何能見度嗎？還是你覺得現在要判斷太困難？

Again, I missed the question there.

我又漏聽到那個問題了。

Regarding the one customer you mentioned that took a lot of equipment and now is installing, have you got any visibility on the timing of when this customer is going to come back ordering further equipment?

關於你提到那位拿了很多設備、現在正在安裝的客戶，你們對於這位客戶何時會回來再下單購買更多設備的時間點，有任何能見度嗎？

Customers like that, you know, there are several of them. We're not talking about any one here. You may be thinking of one in mind, but I'm thinking of probably six or seven actually, -, in total.

像那樣的客戶，你知道，其實有好幾個。我們不是在談某一個特定客戶。你可能心裡想到某一個，但我想到的其實大概有六、七個——總共。

We're in constant dialogue with them. That's the beauty of our commanding position on technology. So I guess, as I speak here to all of these ladies and gentlemen, we're probably we're probably in dialogue with the top five IC manufacturers in the world about their requirements for this first - I'm sorry, the second, third and fourth quarter.

我們一直和他們保持持續對話。這就是我們在技術上具備主導地位的優勢。所以我想，當我在這裡對各位女士先生說話的同時，我們大概正在和全球前五大 IC 製造商就他們在第一——抱歉，是第二、第三與第四季的需求進行對話。

So yes, there's not one of those big customers who have gone away from talking to us about their next requirements. Some are more urgent than others. Some want it in early Q2 and Q3, others maybe Q3 and Q4. So yes, they're all still talking, all very sincere and genuine. Some have placed order in the first quarter obviously. We had that - net bookings in Q1. So yes, those - it's as good as it can be out there right now for us. We're taking still a high percent of the going business.

所以，是的，沒有任何一個大客戶停止和我們討論他們下一階段的需求。有些比較急迫。有些希望在第二季初和第三季拿到，其他可能是第三季和第四季。所以，是的，他們都還在談，而且都非常誠懇、非常真實。有些顯然已在第一季下單。我們第一季有那個——淨接單（net bookings）。所以，是的，就目前而言，外部環境對我們來說已經是能有多好就多好了。我們仍然拿下了相當高比例的市場業務。

OK. My follow up was on the gross margin on TWINSCAN. Aren't you concerned that gross margin on TWINSCAN are so low because it's been some time you've been producing TWINSCAN now, volumes are significant. And I felt like I remember the last quarter, you were particularly confident on gross margin improvement from the level it was at the time. That was still significantly above what it is today.

好的。我追問的是 TWINSCAN 的毛利率。你們不擔心 TWINSCAN 的毛利率這麼低嗎？畢竟你們生產 TWINSCAN 已經有一段時間了，出貨量也相當可觀。而且我記得上季你們對毛利率改善特別有信心，相較當時的水準。那個水準仍然明顯高於今天。

Yes, I mean, you know, of course, yes, we - I'm going to be quite candid, honest here. We are very concerned about the TWINSCAN gross margin which is why we're able to analytically decide to determine why it's like it is. And the major impact is volume. So I'm afraid the volume thing will not go away until the volume increases. And it's as simple as that. I can't make it go away.

是的，我的意思是，你知道，當然，是的，我們——我會很坦白、很誠實地說。我們非常擔心 TWINSCAN 的毛利率，所以我們才能用分析的方法去判定為什麼會是這樣。而最大的影響因素是出貨量。所以恐怕在出貨量增加之前，出貨量這個因素不會消失。就這麼簡單。我沒辦法讓它消失。

But what we can do is effect our cost of goods and there we have aggressive programs in place which will bear fruit in a cycle time or two from now as we go through the rest of this year with reduced cost of good which will improve the gross margin. So volume is going to make the biggest impact. And the cost of goods is going to make a big impact. And the pricing will do what the pricing does.

但我們能做的是改善我們的銷貨成本（cost of goods），而在這方面我們已經有積極的計畫在推動；隨著今年剩餘時間的推進，在接下來一到兩個週期時間內就會看到成果，銷貨成本下降將會改善毛利率。所以出貨量會帶來最大的影響。銷貨成本也會帶來很大的影響。而定價就會照定價的方式運作。

Yes, just for clarification, we have seen these poorly numbers of last year which we set out. If you take the first two quarters of the year which wasn't highly impacted by TWINSCAN sales. But you do see a very significant impact of the volume of element there. We saw only 13 tools in the first quarter of last year which led to a gross margin of less than 10 percent. And then there are over 60 tools in the second quarter leading to gross margins in the mid 30s. That is not really effected by mix issues, but it just shows you the very strong volatility and the gross margin driven by the volume.

是的，補充說明一下，我們已經公布了去年的這些不佳數字。如果你看去年前兩季，當時並沒有受到 TWINSCAN 銷售的高度影響。但你確實可以看到出貨量因素帶來非常顯著的影響。去年第一季我們只出貨 13 台工具機，導致毛利率不到 10%。第二季則超過 60 台工具機，毛利率來到 30% 中段。這其實不是產品組合（mix）問題造成的，而是顯示出貨量驅動的毛利率具有非常強的波動性。

Yes, but the last one Peter, I'm surprised because on Q3 last year, basically volumes were around 30 shipments, but the gross margin help up solidly at 27 point something percent so that is a mix effect.

是的，但最後一點，Peter，我很驚訝，因為去年第三季基本上出貨量大約 30 台，但毛利率仍穩穩維持在 27 點多%，所以那是組合效應。

But that is the effect of, I would say the mix. Because in the third quarter, we did ship - most of what we shipped was 200 millimeters. And what you say in the fourth quarter, where the total number of shipments were significantly up, the mix of the TWINSCAN was significantly higher. So there you saw the impact of, you know, the mix.

但那就是我會說的組合效應。因為第三季我們出貨——我們出貨的大多是 200 毫米。而你看第四季，總出貨量明顯上升，但 TWINSCAN 的出貨占比明顯更高。所以你就看到了那個——你知道，組合的影響。

So TWINSCAN revenue recognition in the fourth quarter as of the - resulted from the SOB 101 (ph) issue basically lets to if you're correct for the one time inventory write up in the fourth quarter, led to margins that were about similar as in the third quarter of last year. But that was then heavily impact by the mix of TWINSCAN versus 200 mil. And 200 mil was dominant in the third quarter.

所以第四季的 TWINSCAN 營收認列——由於 SOB 101（音）議題的影響，基本上如果你把第四季一次性的存貨沖銷（inventory write up）調整掉，毛利率大約和去年第三季相近。但那又受到 TWINSCAN 相對於 200 毫米的組合所強烈影響。而在第三季，200 毫米是主導。

OK. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

The next question from Gaetan Van Der Bruggen (ph). Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Gaetan Van Der Bruggen（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Yes, hello from Peter Cam (ph). I read on Bloomberg this morning that you expected to ship 60 machines in Q2, Q3, is that correct? Is that the correct statement?

是的，你好，我是 Peter Cam（音）。我今天早上在彭博看到你們預期在第二季、第三季出貨 60 台機器，這正確嗎？那個說法正確嗎？

I don't know what you read on Bloomberg actually. What I'll tell you is that we have given you the medical unit size of our backlog for the next 12 months out. And that was 87 systems. And we've also told you that it was an average selling price each of - for each of those of 10 which is 870 million therefore, in that 12 months.

我不知道你在彭博讀到的是什麼。我能告訴你的是，我們已經提供了未來 12 個月的在手訂單（backlog）規模。那是 87 套系統。我們也告訴過你，每一套的平均售價是 10，因此在那 12 個月內合計是 8.7 億。

We also indicated that around 60 percent of that - 65 to 70 percent of that, I'm sorry, was required in the next six months.

我們也指出其中大約 60%——抱歉，是 65% 到 70%——是在接下來六個月內需要交付的。

OK. So doing the math with what you shipped in the first quarter and ...

好的。所以用你們第一季的出貨量來算，然後……

Just finishing off then, so you may imply they will not take any more orders, receive any more cancellations and therefore will ship the six and that's your indication, it's not mine. We will take more orders and receive more cancellations. And therefore, it will be a different number at the end of the next six months, OK.

我把話說完，所以你可能會推論他們不會再接任何新訂單、不會再有任何取消，因此就會在六個月內出貨那些——那是你的推論，不是我的。我們會接到更多訂單，也會收到更多取消。因此，六個月結束時的數字會不一樣，好嗎。

I know, OK, but too you see the market flat for the year.

我知道，好，但你是否認為今年市場會持平？

No. I don't. No I see next quarter being fairly dullish and flatish. And I was very - gave very careful and precise to say that the second half has everything going for it. It can be equally flat and boring or it can be significantly up. And if you look at the spend rates of customers, if they keep their spending budget it will have to be significantly up. But, you know, again, I'm not predicting that.

不。我不這麼認為。不，我認為下一季會相當疲弱、相當持平。而且我非常——我非常謹慎且精確地說過，下半年具備所有有利條件。它可能同樣持平、乏善可陳，也可能顯著上升。如果你看客戶的支出速度，若他們維持原本的支出預算，那就必須顯著上升。但你知道，我並不是在做這樣的預測。

OK. I will ask it differently. So if you would see a better second half of the year, I mean orders in the - in Q2, and perhaps in early Q3 would be to have very strong, actually.

好的。我換個方式問。所以如果你們預期下半年會更好，我是指第二季的訂單，以及可能在第三季初會非常強勁，實際上會很強。

Correct. Yes. Correct. So quite correct. And did say that the next six to eight weeks would begin to give as a strong indication of the second half of the year, that's quite correct. And the ...

正確。是的。正確。所以完全正確。而且確實說過接下來六到八週會開始對下半年的情況提供很強的指標，這完全正確。而……

...

...

... look of Q2 last year, if you have the database look at Q2 of last year, I think we got, I don't know, 100 systems or something in Q2 of last year.

……回頭看去年第二季，如果你有資料庫就看去年第二季，我想我們在去年第二季拿到，我不知道，大概100套系統之類的。

OK. So but now that we're mid April do you see that trend materialize? Or what can you tell now.

好的。那麼但現在已經四月中旬了，你有看到那個趨勢開始實現嗎？或者你現在能說些什麼。

I'm reporting on Q1, end of March.

我是在報告第一季，也就是三月底。

Yes, and we don't see a similar trend now as we saw in the second quarter of 2002. And you can see on the Web site, we give the overview of the monthly movement in the backlog position. You can refer to that when you see the movement. But what we are seeing now is that Q2 '03 is not comparing to Q2 of '02.

是的，而我們現在沒有看到像2002年第二季那樣的類似趨勢。你也可以在網站上看到，我們提供在手訂單（backlog）部位每月變動的概覽。你可以在看到變動時參考那個。但我們現在看到的是，2003年第二季無法與2002年第二季相比。

And - but you are right that if anything happens in the second half of 2003, we will have to see that order movement over the next six to eight weeks.

而且——但你說得對，如果2003年下半年會發生任何事情，我們必須在接下來六到八週看到訂單的變動。

So please be patient as we have to be and wait for the next six to eight to 10 weeks before we will know that.

所以請耐心等待，就像我們也必須做的一樣，等接下來六到八到十週之後，我們才會知道。

Great. And just can you disclose the service revenues for the quarter?

很好。另外你們能否揭露本季的服務營收？

...in the room ... Yes, we can disclose it. And if you give us a few seconds we'll have it for you.

……在會議室裡……可以，我們可以揭露。如果你給我們幾秒鐘，我們就能提供給你。

Yes, it's about 65 million.

是的，大約是6,500萬。

Sixty-five million. OK. And this is in increasing numbers compared to last year's first quarter.

6,500萬。好的。而且這個數字相較於去年第一季是增加的。

As compared to last year's first quarter it is slightly down.

相較於去年第一季是略為下降。

OK. So my question is with the increasing install base that you have and seeing service revenues going down, would it mean that kind of a discount that you could give to your customers is to be more aggressive in pricing on the services would be a fair statement?

好的。所以我的問題是，隨著你們裝機基礎（install base）增加，但服務營收卻下降，這是否意味著你們給客戶某種折扣、在服務定價上更具侵略性——這樣的說法是否合理？

No, that's not the case. The reason why it is down because the - not so much the service contracts business but the field option business which is basically the variable. So we do sell additional options in the field. And that is the quarterly variable. And that can basically vary from quarter-to-quarter. And that was done Q1 this year, Q1 last year so that was the main reason.

不，不是那樣。下降的原因在於——不是服務合約業務，而是現場選配（field option）業務，基本上那部分是變動項。也就是說我們會在客戶現場銷售額外的選配。而那是每季的變動項。因此它基本上會在季度之間波動。而今年第一季、去年第一季就是如此，所以那是主要原因。

OK. So it's only the variable part of the service revenues that are down.

好的。所以只有服務營收中變動的那一部分下降。

Yes.

是的。

OK. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Jay Deahna (ph), please state your company name followed by your question.

下一個問題來自Jay Deahna先生（音），請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Hi, I'm with JP Morgan. Hi guys. A couple of questions here, the first one is on TWINSCAN you guys have done a great job of penetrating new accounts over the last couple of years. Have there been any new account penetrations recently on TWINSCAN? Or are you at the point now where you're just waiting for, you know, your tremendous work and design wins over the last two years to mushroom in to volume? And if you could comment on whether or not you're seeing any increased competition from canon to new 300 millimeter platform in that equation, I'd appreciate it. And then I've got a quick follow up from there.

嗨，我來自摩根大通（JP Morgan）。嗨，各位。我有幾個問題，第一個是關於TWINSCAN，你們過去幾年在打入新客戶方面做得非常好。最近在TWINSCAN上是否有任何新的客戶滲透？或者你們現在已經到了這個階段：只是等待你們過去兩年的大量努力與設計導入（design wins）開始擴大成出貨量？另外，如果你們能評論一下，在這個情境下是否看到來自Canon在新300毫米平台上的競爭加劇，我會很感謝。然後我還有一個簡短的追問。

Yes, thanks, Jay. The first part of your question, we haven't had any new customers for TWINSCAN in the quarter reporting on. And one of the reasons is that as far as I'm aware, and God news we're proven wrong here, every announced 300 millimeter fab outside Japan just bought equipment or placed orders has bought from ASML. So we're in to everyone. So it's not surprising we haven't gotten any more. So that - I don't know if that's a good or bad answer actually there. But it's a fact, we bring them all and that's good from our point of view.

是的，謝謝你，Jay。就你問題的第一部分，我們在本季（我們正在報告的這一季）沒有新增任何TWINSCAN客戶。其中一個原因是，就我所知——也希望我們被證明是錯的——所有日本以外已宣布的300毫米晶圓廠，只要買了設備或下了訂單，都是向ASML購買。所以我們已經進入每一家。因此我們沒有再拿到更多也不令人意外。所以——我其實不知道這算好答案還是壞答案。但這是事實：我們把他們都拿下了，從我們的角度看這是好事。

And regarding our competition, I don't want to give them much air time. There is competition out there. They all tend to have great marketing brochures and pieces of paper and very few of them - none of them have any great steel and glass and things that make you work. So right now, your competition is more of a future paper tiger threat than a today reality.

至於競爭，我不想給他們太多發言時間。外面確實有競爭。他們往往都有很漂亮的行銷型錄和紙上資料，但其中很少——其實沒有任何一家——擁有真正的鋼材、玻璃等能讓你運作起來的實體。所以目前競爭更像是未來的「紙老虎」威脅，而不是今天的現實。

But, you know, we're always paranoid in this business. So we will assume that one of these days they'll get looking and get it right, and we'll be ahead of them.

不過，你知道的，我們在這個產業一向保持戒心。所以我們會假設總有一天他們會把東西做出來、做對，而我們會走在他們前面。

OK. And then two quick follow ups if could, Doug. Number on is your inventory of lasers sufficient for the next three or four months? Or do you envision needing to order more? And then number two, do you view the Novellus (ph) order guidance for the second quarter as indicative of the realm? Or do you see something different potentially for the industry or for you guys given the fact that you typically have a better second half of any given half?

好的。然後如果可以的話，Doug，我有兩個很快的追問。第一，你們的雷射庫存是否足以支應未來三到四個月？還是你們預期需要再下更多訂單？第二，你是否認為Novellus（音）對第二季訂單的指引具有代表性？或者考量到你們通常在每一年下半年表現較好，你認為對產業或對你們而言可能會有不同的情況？

OK. On the issue of the inventory of lasers, I honestly don't know. I mean I don't know the number. I assume ...

好的。關於雷射庫存的問題，老實說我不知道。我是說我不知道數字。我假設……

We attempt to keep the inventory as low as we can.

我們會盡可能把庫存維持在最低。

... production guys have got us well covered with orders on Simon (ph) and increasingly -. Simon (ph) has become a little bit less competitive probably. And therefore, I feel relaxed about that. Although I'll go and check after this phone call just to make sure. And we don't stock inventory other than we need. So we've got line here. We fill the line as we need it. And I believe we're well covered with orders to meet their expected demand in the short term, the next three or four months. It certainly won't be in house right now.

……生產團隊已經用對Simon（音）的訂單把我們覆蓋得很好，而且越來越——。Simon（音）可能變得沒那麼有競爭力了。因此我對此感到比較放心。不過我會在這通電話後去確認一下，以確保無誤。而且除了必要的部分之外，我們不會囤庫存。所以我們這裡有產線。我們按需要補充產線。我相信我們的訂單覆蓋足以滿足他們短期、也就是未來三到四個月的預期需求。當然現在不會是在公司內部庫存。

Regarding Novellus (ph). I'm not sure what they've been saying so I can't comment. From our point of view, the second quarter bookings can unfold much better than we've currently probably seen in the first quarter. But to be honest with you, I don't believe so. I think it's going to be quite a dullish second quarter. I think any unfolding any kind of growth is going to come at the back end of Q2 or in to Q3. Therefore, we're pushing out still the point in which we start to get optimistic about the future. And it's now pushing well in to the second half of this year.

至於Novellus（音）。我不確定他們說了什麼，所以我無法評論。從我們的角度看，第二季的接單（bookings）可能會比我們在第一季看到的情況好很多。但老實跟你說，我不這麼認為。我覺得第二季會相當平淡。我認為任何成長的展開都會出現在第二季末段或進入第三季。因此，我們仍在把開始對未來感到樂觀的時間點往後推。而現在已經推到今年下半年更後面的位置。

Right.

對。

... by the way?

……順帶一提？

Excuse me?

不好意思？

What did Novellus (ph) say.

Novellus（音）怎麼說？

Novellus (ph) said that orders would be 22 to 23 percent sequentially in the June quarter versus the March quarter.

Novellus（音）表示，6 月季度相較於 3 月季度，訂單將按季成長 22% 到 23%。

No. I don't think I would - that's something, you know, it's very company specific, right. I don't think I would say that at all.

不。我不認為我會——那是，你知道，非常公司特定的，對吧。我完全不會那樣說。

Right. Now if orders don't start to materialize for your guys in a meaningful way until the later part of the second quarter, let's say the month of June or the end of June. You know, given the lead time situation, that would imply that the semiconductor companies would probably have to reduce some of their expectations for the capital spending in the July earnings season, you know, given the lead times, right?

對。那如果你們的訂單要到第二季後段才開始以有意義的方式出現，比方說 6 月或 6 月底。你知道，考量交期狀況，那就意味著半導體公司可能必須在 7 月財報季下修他們對資本支出的部分預期；你知道，因為交期的關係，對吧？

For a little (ph) tools that would be true.

對於交期較短（音）的工具來說，會是如此。

Yes, for the longer lead time tools including -, that would be true .

是的，對於交期較長的工具（包括——），確實會是如此。

Yes.

是。

OK. And then I'm sorry to take up too much, but one last follow up ...

好。然後很抱歉占用太多時間，不過最後再追問一個……

No, you're not.

不會，你沒有。

You made a comment that you thought that Simon (ph) was losing its competitive in this relative Lana Physique (ph). My understanding is that a lot of people are buying in to their new dual chamber technology for the leading ex-lithography (ph) tools, of which we're not aware of Lana Physique (ph) with an announced product. Could you expand on that comment, if you could, please?

你提到你認為 Simon（音）相對於 Lana Physique（音）正在失去競爭力。我的理解是，很多人正在採用他們新的雙腔室技術，用於最先進的非微影（音）工具；而我們並不知道 Lana Physique（音）有任何已宣布的產品。如果可以的話，能否請你進一步說明那個評論？

Well I'm here to talk to about ASML -. You know, we expect all our slides (ph) are very competitive. And things like the laser source, and the customer has a say - the end customer, you know the semiconductor manufacturers. And right now, we - I'm fairly unbiased in whatever laser source we choose to you, it's what the customer wants frankly because he has a final choice on that.

嗯，我在這裡是要談 ASML——。你知道，我們預期我們所有的（音）都非常有競爭力。像是雷射光源這類事情，客戶是有發言權的——終端客戶，也就是半導體製造商。而目前，我們——在選用哪一種雷射光源上，我相當中立；坦白說就是客戶想要什麼，因為最後的選擇權在他手上。

Right now, it's clear, I think to everyone that customers are varying in their opinions about what laser source they want to purchase. And it must be only can be a competitive issue because the performance is dictated by the machine, and therefore, has to be equivalent. And assuming things like long-term reliability and operating costs are similar then it comes to the up front cost. So I only made that comment because I see - we see from our customers a greater hesitation in their choice.

目前很明顯，我想大家都看得出來，客戶對於想採購哪一種雷射光源的看法並不一致。而這只能是一個競爭議題，因為性能是由機台決定的，因此必須是等同的。並且假設像長期可靠度與營運成本都相近，那就回到前期採購成本。所以我之所以那樣評論，只是因為我看到——我們從客戶那裡看到，他們在選擇上更為猶豫。

OK. Great. I appreciate it.

好。很好。謝謝，我很感激。

The next question comes from Mr. Navdeep Sheera (ph). Please state your company name followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Navdeep Sheera 先生（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，接著提出問題。

Hi, gentlemen, good afternoon. Navdeep Sheera from Smith Barney. Just a couple of very simple questions please. And I'll just recite them one - how many cancellations did you see in first quarter? The second question is what proportion of the 27 new shipments were turns orders? And thirdly, in your backlog, do you put IBM in the MPU section or in the foundry section? Thank you.

各位先生好，午安。我是 Smith Barney 的 Navdeep Sheera。請教幾個非常簡單的問題。我就逐一念出：第一，第一季你們看到多少取消訂單？第二，27 台新出貨中，有多少比例是「turns」訂單？第三，在你們的在手訂單（backlog）中，你們把 IBM 放在 MPU 類別還是晶圓代工（foundry）類別？謝謝。

We put IBM in the MPU section, just to answer that question for you. And that's the easiest one of the three.

我們把 IBM 放在 MPU 類別，先回答你這個問題。而這是三個裡面最容易的一個。

Thank you.

謝謝。

On the cancellations, I don't think I'll keep count. I have a sense in my head, so I can give you kind of a feel for it. There were are few, I mean in absolute cancellations where a customer says I want to cancel this order. I don't never want to take it every. And I don't to change it for a higher specifications lens, there were very few, I mean less than a handful, I would suspect.

關於取消訂單，我不認為我有逐一統計。我腦中有個大概印象，所以我可以給你一個感覺。確實有一些，但以絕對的取消來說——也就是客戶說我要取消這筆訂單，我永遠都不想再拿了。而且我也不想改成更高規格的鏡頭——這種情況非常少，我猜不到五筆。

There were some push outs where a customer say oops, you know, Q1 maybe Q2, Q2 maybe Q3, and so on.

有一些是延後（push out），也就是客戶說，噢，你知道，Q1 可能改到 Q2，Q2 可能改到 Q3，依此類推。

... sell side to fourth quarter window.

……賣方到第四季的區間。

Yes, some of them went outside there for the fourth quarter window. We only give you a fourth quarter number. And the other side with the cancellation issue, and the other one was ...

是的，其中一些被延到第四季那個區間之外。我們只提供你第四季的數字。至於取消訂單的另一部分議題，另一個是……

Proportion turns.

turns 的比例。

Yes.

是。

Proportion turns in Q1, I suspect it was relatively low. There were, I think, a few used (ph) tools that we turned because we had those in inventory or close to a finished good status. So there or four of the used (ph) tools. And I wouldn't say zero to anyone. We're close to zero now maybe three or four. Not because we couldn't turn them if we had to. But it did get more difficult inside three months. We got - there was not a lot of pressure from customers for that urgent response. I mean they're usually in this climate they're not - the demands on them are less severe. They're still running at 60 to 70 percent utilization. Therefore, they're not clamoring for turn business either.

第一季 turns 的比例，我猜相對偏低。有一些我想是二手機（音）工具，我們能夠做 turns，是因為我們有庫存，或接近成品狀態。所以大概有三或四台二手機（音）工具。我不會對任何人說是零。我們現在接近零，可能三或四台。不是因為我們如果需要就做不到 turns。而是三個月內要做會變得更困難。客戶並沒有對那種緊急回應施加很大壓力。我的意思是，在這種景氣下，他們面臨的需求壓力比較小。他們的產能利用率仍在 60% 到 70%。因此他們也不會急著要 turns 的生意。

And so generally speaking, for the second quarter you might not necessarily accept much turns potential either.

所以一般來說，第二季你們也未必會接受太多 turns 的可能性？

Yes, I mean wait and see. But yes, I mean it could be case now yes, let's wait and see. It could be the case.

是的，我是說，先觀察看看。但對，是的，現在有可能是這樣；我們再觀察看看。有可能會是如此。

OK. No. That's fine. Thank you very much.

好。不。沒問題。非常謝謝。

The next question comes from Michael Haufelder (ph). Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Michael Haufelder（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，接著提出問題。

Hi, Michael Haufelder here with HBB. Actually most of the question have been answered. Maybe just one last, may you comment a little bit about the activities in terms of end use in the last weeks especially in the foundry business. I think we saw a slight up tick in that area. Thanks.

你好，我是 HBB 的 Michael Haufelder。其實大部分問題都已經回答了。也許最後一個：你能否稍微評論一下，最近幾週在終端用途活動方面的情況，特別是在晶圓代工業務上？我想我們看到那個領域有些微回升。謝謝。

Yes, OK. Yes, the foundry business is always the bell weather of the industry. It's the one that gives the, you know, kind of indication of a change. It's also the one that probably gets the most confusion because it goes up and down very quickly. But certainly the foundry guys have shown more interest recently. Their interest level, their call rates and so on has increased with us. A big reason is the SMU reasons for that which we don't have any input on. And so that's true.

是，好。是的，晶圓代工業務一向是產業的風向球。它會提供，你知道，某種變化的指標。它也可能是最容易造成混淆的一塊，因為它上下波動非常快。但晶圓代工客戶最近確實表現出更多興趣。他們對我們的關注度、來電頻率等等都提高了。其中一個很大的原因是 SMU 的因素（我們對此沒有任何影響力）。所以確實如此。

But I have to say if you're looking for any kind of big white light here there isn't one. Apart from that, everything is relatively predictable and therefore in my term dull. You know, all customers are buying a few of, enough to get them in to the next technology node or just to put a small jump in their line. And none of them are seeing any reason to aggressively do anything other than that.

但我必須說，如果你在找任何所謂的重大轉機訊號，這裡並沒有。除此之外，一切都相對可預測，因此用我的話說就是乏善可陳。你知道，所有客戶都只買少量——買到足以讓他們進入下一個技術節點，或只是讓他們的產線做一個小幅升級。而他們都看不到任何理由要更積極地做超出這些的事情。

So apart from that small kind of feeling of hope we get from the foundry comments, you know, I think end use wise, and all of our customers whether they're ASIC, or logic or microprocessor based or memory based all are boring and predictable I'd say right now.

因此，除了我們從晶圓代工廠的評論中得到那種小小的希望感之外，你知道，我認為就終端用途而言，以及我們所有客戶——不論是 ASIC、邏輯或微處理器為主，或是記憶體為主——目前都算是乏善可陳且可預測。

OK. Thanks.

好的。謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Mark Fitzgerald (ph). Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Mark Fitzgerald 先生（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Banc of America Securities. Could you talk to us about free cash flow? What was it in the quarter? And given that you moved through and shut down some of these operations, what you could expect going in to the second half of the year?

美國銀行證券（Banc of America Securities）。能否談談自由現金流？本季是多少？以及鑑於你們已推進並關閉其中一些營運，對今年下半年可以有什麼樣的預期？

Yes, I'll let Peter tackle that because he wants to get the decimal places right. And I tend to round them.

是的，我讓 Peter 來回答，因為他想把小數點位數講精準。而我通常會把數字四捨五入。

Well we had - thank you, Doug. We had free cash flow out of our continuing operations around 40 million in the first quarter. We had a usage of cash in the discontinued operation of about 11. But part of that had to do with some of the restructuring that was announced at the end of last year. Going forward, the cash usage will be quite similar to what we will see as a possible net loss out of the discontinued operation going forward. And Doug said that it's going to be around five to six million a quarter max.

嗯——謝謝你，Doug。我們第一季來自持續營運的自由現金流約為 4,000 萬。已終止營運部分的現金使用約為 1,100 萬。但其中一部分與去年年底宣布的一些重整有關。往後，現金使用將與我們預期已終止營運未來可能出現的淨損相當接近。Doug 也說過，最多大約每季 500 萬到 600 萬。

And there was an effect of foreign exchange ranges - well rate changes on the U.S. dollar balances that we have around eight, which is basically an accounting adjustment. So going forward, Doug also said it, we still have a target of a $1 billion or one billion euros in cash at the end of the year. We feel that we are on target with that. We can still achieve that. You may have seen that in the end of the first quarter, the inventories basically went up. That is a result of some push outs we saw in the first quarter from the second quarter to the third. And those push outs were largely the - we would say the result of the geopolitical uncertainties. Customers didn't want to take the tools in the second quarter, asked for shipment in the third.

另外，外匯區間——也就是匯率變動——對我們持有的美元餘額有大約 800 萬的影響，基本上是會計調整。因此往後，Doug 也提到，我們年底仍以現金達到 10 億美元或 10 億歐元為目標。我們認為目前仍在達標軌道上。我們仍然可以達成。你可能也看到第一季末存貨基本上增加了。那是因為我們在第一季看到一些從第二季延後到第三季的遞延（push outs）。而這些遞延很大程度上——我們會說——是地緣政治不確定性所致。客戶不想在第二季收貨，要求第三季出貨。

But unfortunately, we did have the material in. So what that basically means is that we will not purchase in the second quarter. And we will those inventories off throughout the second quarter going in to the third. So I think we're on track. And we can repeat our targets that we have set in the second half of the year 2002.

但不幸的是，我們的材料已經到位。所以這基本上意味著我們在第二季不會再採購。而我們會在第二季一路到第三季期間逐步消化這些存貨。所以我認為我們仍在正軌上。我們也可以重申我們在 2002 年下半年所設定的目標。

On the net loss of five to six million over the next couple of quarters here, does that include your cap ex expenditures?

接下來幾季這裡提到的 500 萬到 600 萬淨損，是否包含資本支出（cap ex）？

On the discontinued option, do you mean?

你是指已終止營運的部分嗎？

I thought that was for the overall ...

我以為那是針對整體……

... five to six million. That basically includes the cap ex movement which will not be significant. So the five to six million we must be very clear is only discontinued operations, not per quarter.

……500 萬到 600 萬。那基本上包含資本支出的變動，但不會很顯著。所以我們必須非常清楚：這 500 萬到 600 萬只針對已終止營運，不是每季的整體數字。

OK. And then just, could you give me a headcount number at the end of the quarter?

了解。另外，能否提供本季末的員工人數？

Yes, we have a targeted headcount number stated after the restructuring of 5,200 in the litho business, which would be effectuated by the end of this quarter, for the end of June.

可以。我們在重整後所設定的目標人數是微影（litho）事業 5,200 人，將在本季末、也就是 6 月底前完成到位。

OK. And then just when you look in to the second half, one of the market type questions, I mean is DRAM still a big part of the mix in to the second half of the year in terms of the projects you're potentially looking at?

好的。再來看下半年，一個市場類型的問題：就你們可能在看的專案而言，DRAM 在今年下半年是否仍占組合中很大一部分？

Yes.

是的。

Yes. And don't ask me - you can't ask me what the mix is, I can't tell you for the second half precisely. I can tell you in general. -, backlog information shows you how that backlog splits. But to answer your question DRAM, I think will still continue to be very volatile, but a very important part of our backlog. And around 35 percent, I think, is the answer, isn't it?

是的。而且別問我——你不能問我下半年組合占比是多少，我無法精確告訴你。我可以大致說明——未交訂單（backlog）的資訊會顯示其分布。但回答你的問題：我認為 DRAM 仍會非常波動，但也是我們未交訂單中非常重要的一部分。大約 35% 吧，我想答案是這個，對嗎？

OK.

好的。

We don't feel that's going to change in the next few months as we continue taking orders.

我們不認為未來幾個月在持續接單的情況下，這會有改變。

Yes, and we'll ship. I mean we will ship especially to the DOM customers in the second quarter of this year. But we made it clear that we think the ASPs will decrease in the second quarter, because of the high content of 200 millimeter, 248 nanometer (ph) shipments which will go largely to DOM customers.

是的，而且我們會出貨。我的意思是，我們在今年第二季會特別對 DOM 客戶出貨。但我們已經說得很清楚，我們認為第二季 ASP（平均售價）會下降，因為 200 毫米、248 奈米（音）出貨占比很高，而這些將主要出給 DOM 客戶。

And we do that. I mean that's kind of a fact.

而我們就是這麼做。我的意思是，這算是一個事實。

That's kind of a fact. In the third quarter, we expect quite a substantial increase of our average selling price, and that's largely the result because we see the mix more skewed towards 300 millimeter in the third quarter.

這算是一個事實。第三季我們預期平均售價會相當明顯地上升，主要原因是我們看到第三季的組合會更偏向 300 毫米。

OK. Thank you. Very helpful.

好的。謝謝。非常有幫助。

Thank you. The next question comes from Mr. Matthew Gettle (ph). Please state your company name followed by your question.

謝謝。下一個問題來自 Matthew Gettle 先生（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Yes, I think that's me. Matt Gail (ph), Goldman Sachs. Most of the questions have been answered, all ready. But I guess could you give a quick update on the situation with the large tax receivable that you have outstanding with the Dutch government?

是的，我想是我。Matt Gail（音），高盛（Goldman Sachs）。大多數問題都已經被回答了。不過我想請問，能否簡要更新一下你們對荷蘭政府尚未收回的那筆大額應收稅款的狀況？

Yes, I think that's one that we said is ...

是的，我想那一項我們說過是……

Is my personal tax receivable on that? ...

那是我個人的應收稅款嗎？……

I'm afraid if it was yours it will be a text table that way. It's - that is totally on track. I mean we are confident that we'll come in as we said this year. We'll be let's say mid year we would be targeting this quarter. It could be the first months of the third quarter, but we're - they'll come from there.

我擔心如果是你的，那就會以那種方式課稅。它——那一項完全按計畫進行。我的意思是，我們有信心會如同我們所說在今年入帳。我們的目標大概在年中，也就是鎖定在本季。也可能是第三季的前幾個月，但我們——會從那時候進來。

OK. And the second question ,could you give an idea of where the ASPs came in to your gross orders?

好的。第二個問題，你能否說明一下你們總訂單（gross orders）的 ASP 大概落在哪裡？

The ASPs, I think if you compare the ASPs backlog at the end of last year, or the end of the fourth quarter 2002 and the end of this quarter, ASPs are, you know, around the 10 million euro level. That's where they are. And that's where they come in at this moment.

ASP 我想如果你比較去年年底、或 2002 年第四季末的未交訂單 ASP，與本季末相比，ASP 你知道，大約在 1,000 萬歐元的水準。大概就是那樣。而目前就是落在那個水準。

OK. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Johannes Rice (ph). Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Johannes Rice 先生（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Yes, good evening. Johannes Rice, DRT in Frankfurt. A couple of more questions. First, you mentioned you think you have a high win rate and you don't expect that Q2 will be better than Q1. But maybe one question regarding the change now you're accounting to quarterly accounting. And I think the -, has known in the past only to work to half year deadlines. Do you think that had any impact, maybe, that therefore maybe we could expect, maybe, some positive surprises in Q2 because all people have known to work to this old deadline and it's maybe hard to change in the short term?

是的，晚安。我是位於法蘭克福的 DRT 的 Johannes Rice。還有幾個問題。首先，你提到你認為你們的贏單率很高，而且你不預期第二季會比第一季更好。但我想問一個關於你們現在改為按季入帳（季度會計）的變化。而且我想——過去大家只習慣以半年期的截止日來運作。你覺得這是否有任何影響？也就是說，因為大家都習慣朝著舊的截止日工作，短期內可能很難改變，所以我們是否可能在第二季看到一些正面的驚喜？

Yes, first of all I don't think I actually said that Q2 will be similar to Q1, although it could be. You know, we have still three months to go, two-and-a-half months to go for Q2. But it's going to be a dullish quarter, we will all agree on that point.

是的，首先我不認為我真的說過第二季會和第一季相似，雖然也有可能。你知道，我們距離第二季結束還有三個月，或兩個半月。但這會是一個相對平淡的季度，我想大家都會同意這一點。

No, I think what you're alluding to is the -, effect that every sales organization in the world for every company always has when it knows that the period closes in a few weeks time to try to get the orders in in time. And -, business. And we're not immune from that either. But I think it's going to make no material significant change in the second quarter compared to first quarter, any other quarter.

不，我想你暗示的是——這種效應：世界上每一家公司的每個銷售組織，只要知道期間在幾週後就要結帳，總是會努力在期限前把訂單趕進來。而——業務就是如此。我們也不例外。但我認為，這不會在第二季相較第一季、或相較其他任何季度，造成任何重大且具實質性的改變。

You know, at the day, the customer's decide when they're going to be ...

你知道，說到底，是客戶決定他們什麼時候要……

The business side is deciding it.

是業務端在做決定。

And it's mostly our customers who the deadlines, not us, actually.

而且多半是我們的客戶在訂截止日，不是我們，實際上。

You too - you change how you -.

你也——你改變你如何——。

You take the order to keep the job basically. And what to do, by the way, in case there's any - we intend to advise them on several things but it's not just taking orders.

你基本上是為了保住案子而接單。順帶一提，若有任何——我們打算在幾個方面給他們建議，但不只是接單而已。

OK.

好的。

The primary incentive for everyone in the organization, sales guys or not including the CEO is cash right now by the way. So they interpret that cash, from their point of view, as accounts receivables. Do you see where we're going? So we have many measurements on them that give them the ability to take home a decent living wage. Incentives are part of that and cash is a good ...

順帶一提，目前組織內每個人的首要激勵，不管是不是銷售、包括 CEO，都是現金。所以他們從自己的角度把現金解讀為應收帳款。你明白我們的意思嗎？因此我們對他們有很多衡量指標，讓他們有能力帶回家一份體面的生活薪資。獎酬是其中一部分，而現金是一個很好的……

A prime driver.

主要驅動因素。

... is a prime driver. But also, bookings and billings and, you know, penetration.

……是一個主要驅動因素。但同時也包括接單（bookings）、開立帳單（billings），以及你知道的，滲透率。

OK. Super. Then, sorry, about it but I'd like to come shortly back to the cross-margin topic. If I remember right in the Q4 call your guidance for cross-margin up around 30 percent. Do you speak to this guidance for the whole year after this comparatively weak margin we are seeing in the first quarter? Or do you like to bring it down?

好的。非常好。那麼，不好意思，我想簡短回到毛利率的議題。如果我沒記錯，在第四季電話會議上，你們對毛利率的指引大約在 30% 左右。在第一季我們看到相對偏弱的毛利率之後，你們對全年仍維持這個指引嗎？還是你們想把它下調？

I think, Johannes, you have to go back to 2002 again where the first quarter gross margin was 9.6 percent. And it is very much depending on the volume. So - because margin target is also depending on, I would say, some level of recovery as compared to the first quarter of this year, for the remainder of the year. Because if we have four quarters which are equal to what we've seen in the first quarter of this year, then clearly a target of 30 percent will be a quite, you know, optimistic one.

Johannes，我想你得再回頭看 2002 年，當時第一季的毛利率是 9.6%。而這非常取決於出貨量（volume）。所以——因為毛利率目標也取決於，我會說，相較於今年第一季，在今年剩餘期間能有某種程度的復甦。因為如果四個季度都跟今年第一季一樣，那麼很明顯，30% 的目標就會是相當、你知道的、樂觀。

So it does mean that we need to see, you know, improvement as compared to the first quarter. But currently, we don't see a reason to suggest that we will not get there. Like Doug said, there is still a question mark on the second half of the year, especially the fourth quarter. So we'll know more about that in the next six to eight weeks. And I think we can be much more clearer when we are reporting in the second quarter.

所以這表示我們需要看到、你知道的、相較第一季有所改善。但目前我們看不出有什麼理由認為我們達不到。就像 Doug 說的，下半年仍有一個問號，特別是第四季。所以我們會在接下來六到八週更清楚。我想在我們第二季財報時，我們可以講得更明確。

OK. But in some regard it is a little bit more challenging maybe.

好的。但在某種程度上，可能會更具挑戰性。

Each quarter that goes buy then clearly gets - you could argue gets more of challenge. Actually I could say this to you, as each quarter goes by the customers are saving up their cash, they're going to spend it all in Q4. And then 30 percent will seem very easy. So I'm afraid, I'm not trying to give a sneaky answer. It really does depend on that volume. If that volume -, and the gross margin is going to follow it faithfully.

每過一個季度，當然就會——你可以說挑戰變得更大。其實我也可以這樣跟你說：每過一個季度，客戶都在把現金存起來，然後他們會在第四季一次花掉。那麼 30% 看起來就會非常容易。所以我不是想給你一個狡猾的答案。這真的取決於那個出貨量。如果那個出貨量——毛利率就會如實地跟著走。

OK. Cash flow topic, again, regarding your target for the free cash flow which must be around three to 350 or maybe 400 million, a lot of -, space on the reduction of working capital. You mentioned all ready the reason why inventory has come up in Q1, so far the cash flow has been driven a reduction in receivables. For the whole year, how do you see the split in the reduction of working capital on receivables and eventually what will be the important drive? Will it be inventories? Or maybe 50-50, what do you think?

好的。再談一次現金流的議題：關於你們自由現金流的目標，應該大約是 3 億到 3.5 億，或可能 4 億美元，很大一部分——空間在於營運資金的降低。你已經提到第一季存貨上升的原因；到目前為止，現金流主要是由應收帳款的下降所帶動。就全年而言，你怎麼看營運資金下降在應收帳款與（最終）其他項目之間的分配？最重要的驅動會是什麼？會是存貨嗎？或者可能 50-50？你怎麼看？

For the remainder of the year, the biggest driver should be the inventory balance. I explained for the first quarter, the inventories went up but it was largely, you know, as a result of the 2Q push outs to Q3. And that will be the - that will have the main focus, because first we have turn the inventory into the receivables before we can turn it in to cash. So that has the main focus, of course which is important that we're comfortable we will get the tax receivable which will also help.

在今年剩餘期間，最大的驅動因素應該是存貨餘額。我解釋過第一季存貨上升，但主要是、你知道的、因為第二季的出貨/訂單延後（push outs）到第三季。而那將會是——那會是主要的關注重點，因為我們必須先把存貨轉成應收帳款，才能再把它轉成現金。所以這是主要焦點；當然也很重要的是，我們有把握會收到那筆應收稅款（tax receivable），這也會有幫助。

And if you would look back at the end of the year, I still think that at the end of the year, when we would call bear working capital balance with the end of 2002, you could probably say that it's been a 50-50 contribution.

如果你回頭看年底，我仍然認為在年底，當我們把營運資金餘額與 2002 年底相比，你大概可以說這是 50-50 的貢獻。

OK. Super. My last question is regarding on the call center SG&A costs, both have - SG&A have been flat compared to last year. And you have been up eight percent. Slightly disappointing for me regarding restructuring, so maybe even with the restructuring one. But even on this, yes (ph), cost we would see an impact maybe in the coming quarter, so for they should come down in the quarter.

好的。非常好。我最後一個問題是關於客服中心的 SG&A 成本：兩者——SG&A 與去年相比持平。而你們上升了 8%。就重整（restructuring）而言，對我來說有點令人失望，所以也許即使有重整也是如此。但即便如此，是的（聽不清）（ph），我們是否會在接下來的季度看到成本受到影響，也就是說它們在季度內應該會下降？

Yes, that has to do with the fact that we announced the restructuring at the end of the last year, both in the U.S. and especially here in the European space, we have a waiting period before we can - before we basically execute and that will be done. One early question was what our level of the number of people was in the course of the year? Well at the end of the second quarter, we think we'll be around 5,000 people. Which means that the announced restructuring of last year will have been effectuated. So we won't see as to the third quarter and the fourth quarter, the impact there.

是的，這與我們在去年底宣布重整有關，包含美國，尤其是在歐洲這邊，我們在能夠——在基本上執行之前，有一段等待期，而這將會完成。先前有個問題是我們在一年當中的人數水準會是多少？我們認為在第二季末，我們大約會在 5,000 人左右。這表示去年宣布的重整將已經落實。因此我們要到第三季和第四季才會看到其影響。

Compared to the SG&A, you know, say it stayed flat. Remember that we did have about eight million of legal cost in the first quarter of this year, and around two million in the first quarter of last year. So there is a six million increase which is about a 10 percent difference of the total SG&A cost that has to do with that legal, you know, cost. We were building up to legal battle in the first quarter of 2002. We have basically finished the ITC part of that in the first quarter of the ...

相較於 SG&A，你知道，可以說它維持持平。請記得，我們今年第一季大約有 800 萬的法律費用，而去年第一季大約是 200 萬。所以增加了 600 萬，約占 SG&A 總成本的 10% 差異，這與那個法律、你知道、成本有關。我們在 2002 年第一季正為法律戰做準備。我們基本上在第一季已經完成了其中 ITC 的部分……

But that's a big -, for, you know, not bringing the SG&A down.

但那是一個很大的因素——你知道，讓 SG&A 沒有降下來。

OK. And a lot of the - you don't expect a lot of additional bids from lawyers in the coming quarters, yes?

好的。而且很多——你不預期接下來幾季會有很多額外的律師費用，是嗎？

We also expect - well we always get more than we think. But the fact that the ITC was settled in the first quarter does help in terms of the level, you know, legal activity. But there is this kind of basic stream of activity that keeps them going, you know, towards the end of the year. But it's going to be less than the first quarter.

我們也預期——嗯，我們總是會比想像中多。但 ITC 在第一季已經和解，確實有助於降低、你知道、法律活動的程度。不過仍有一種基本的活動流，讓他們持續進行，直到、你知道、接近年底。但會比第一季少。

Super. Thanks a lot.

太好了。非常感謝。

OK. Thanks.

好的。謝謝。

The next question comes from Mr. Dan Berkley (ph). Please state your company followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Dan Berkley 先生（音）。請先說明您的公司，然後提出問題。

Hi, UBS O'Connor. Three questions, if I can just ask them in order. Could you refresh our memory on what the tax rebate, the size of that is expected to be?

嗨，UBS O'Connor。如果可以的話我有三個問題，按順序問。能否幫我們回顧一下稅務退稅的金額，預計會是多少？

Yes. That's 150.

是的。是 150。

One hundred and fifty euros?

1.5 億歐元？

Million euros, yes.

是的，1.5 億歐元。

Right. The cap ex forecast for the year at ASML?

了解。ASML 今年的資本支出（capex）預測呢？

The cap ex world (ph) is less than 100 million. So it will be in the range between 80 and 90, that's our target.

資本支出（音）會低於 1 億歐元。所以目標區間會在 8,000 萬到 9,000 萬之間。

It will be 25 in the first quarter.

第一季會是 2,500 萬。

OK. Two questions that are sort of related on the same line. You're targeting $1 billion in cash by year end. What is sort of the minimum amount of cash that you need to run your business on a day-to-day basis? I would assume most of that billion is going to be sort of cushion. And then a follow up question to that.

好的。有兩個彼此相關、同一條線上的問題。你們目標是在年底達到 10 億美元現金。日常營運所需的最低現金水位大概是多少？我猜那 10 億中的大部分應該是作為緩衝。然後我還有一個追問。

Minimally it's about 300 million. That's - that is what we basically need to run our business even with a slight up tick in the business activity level.

最低大約是 3 億。也就是說，即使業務活動水準稍微回升，這基本上是我們營運所需的現金。

OK. The final question, a little bit now, I know your visibility is limited, but how should we think about the maturity? And how is the company thinking about the maturity of the convertible next November? Especially in light - especially if sort of a worst case scenario that the orders are pushed out, from the semi guys are pushed out to 2004 and you basically - you don't hit the one billion euro target. And you're going to be using cash to build inventory and receivables over 2004. You know, how should we think about paying off that November maturity?

好的。最後一個問題：我知道你們的能見度有限，但我們該如何看待到期？公司如何看待明年 11 月可轉債到期這件事？尤其是在——尤其如果出現某種最壞情境：半導體客戶把訂單延後到 2004 年，而你們基本上達不到 10 億歐元的目標。而且你們在 2004 年會用現金去建立庫存與應收帳款。你知道，我們該如何看待償付那筆 11 月到期款？

Well if you look at our cash flow - well at our cash target at the end of the year, we said that's around $1 billion. We think that with the things we that we discussed we can still do that. It means that we have about in euros, we have about 480 million in convertible which is the $520 million.

嗯，如果你看我們的現金流——或者說年底的現金目標，我們說大約是 10 億美元。我們認為，依照我們討論過的事項，我們仍然可以做到。這表示以歐元計，我們有大約 4.8 億的可轉債，也就是 5.2 億美元。

So if you then look at what we think our free available cash is at the end of the year, it's about 500. When the orders start coming in, we think we do have sufficient cash to take care of building inventory on the working capital. On top of that, we have 290 million, 288 million euros available of lines of credit, which we can also use to fund the orders that come in. So we don't expect any issues there.

所以如果你再看我們認為年底可自由動用的現金，大約是 5 億。當訂單開始進來時，我們認為我們有足夠的現金來因應營運資金上建立庫存。此外，我們還有 2.9 億、2.88 億歐元可用的授信額度，也可以用來為進來的訂單提供資金。因此我們不預期會有任何問題。

Are there any sort of back up plans for a worst case scenario if you were to sort of miss that target of, you know, if the orders get pushed out you miss the target of one billion in cash at the end of the year and you having to build working capital June of next year?

如果出現最壞情境，你們有沒有任何備援計畫？也就是說，如果訂單被延後，你們年底現金達不到 10 億的目標，而你們又必須在明年 6 月建立營運資金？

There is - if you say well orders are pushed out then we don't need to build working capital.

有——如果你說訂單被延後，那我們就不需要建立營運資金。

No, I think the question Peter is ...

不，我想 Peter，問題是……

In 2004, you mean.

你是指 2004 年。

If the orders are pushed out of this year, so we have less sales this year, therefore, less chance to build a billion. And the orders fall in to next year, we'll need the cash to spend there (ph). I think yes, it's, you know, you can always amend these. And it's a good scenario by the way in a sense of it, not impossible.

如果今年的訂單被延後，所以我們今年銷售較少，因此較不可能累積到 10 億。而訂單落到明年，我們就需要現金在那時支出（音）。我想是的，你知道，這些條件你總是可以去修訂。而且順帶一提，這在某種意義上是個不無可能的情境。

I think Peter but his finger on the fact that if we missed it by, we'll take a worst case, 200 million soon one becomes 0.8. Then given our line of credit and so on and given the convertible ace 408 million, we're still OK in there. And by the way, if next year is a hugely - a huge bookings year, then there's all kinds of ways that we can solve the problem.

我想 Peter 指出了一點：如果我們沒達標——我們用最壞情況來看，差 2 億，那 10 億就變成 8 億。那麼考量我們的授信額度等等，以及可轉債到期 4.08 億歐元，我們仍然沒問題。而且順帶一提，如果明年是非常——非常大的接單年，那我們有各種方式可以解決這個問題。

Thank you very much. And, you know, I know the visibility is tough. So thank you.

非常感謝。而且，你知道，我知道能見度很困難。所以謝謝。

Yes, please. Help us if you can.

是的，請。如果可以的話請幫幫我們。

The next question comes from Mr. Nicholas Gaudois (ph). Please state your company name, followed by your question.

下一個問題來自 Nicholas Gaudois 先生（音）。請先說明您的公司名稱，然後提出問題。

Yes, could I make the point we are 6:30 central European time. I'd like one more question after this one, and then we'll have to flee this place to a better place.

是的，我想提醒一下，現在是中歐時間 6:30。我希望在這個問題之後再多問一題，然後我們就得離開這裡，去一個更好的地方。

Hi. Deutsche Bank. A very quick question then on how we should consider your four-five-four (ph) shipments in Q2, based on your trend backlog in your quarter? Could you give us an idea of the end markets basically? And also what kind of level of -, tools we may have to plan for going forward? Should we account for the same level in Q1? Or do you see these coming down rather really? Thank you.

嗨。德意志銀行。那我就很快問一個問題：基於你們本季的趨勢積壓訂單，我們應該如何看待你們第二季的 four-five-four（音）出貨？你能否大致說明終端市場？以及往後我們可能需要規劃的——工具——大概會是什麼水準？我們應該假設與第一季相同的水準嗎？還是你們認為這些其實會下降？謝謝。

A pretty detailed question. I will just start off. I don't - I couldn't tell you from where I'm sitting right now, the data in front of me what the percentage - what - how many use (ph) orders we have for the rest of this year. What we've given you is our new order - new tool order backlog of 87. We told you that 70 percent of it is in the first six months. And beyond that there are some, I don't know how many, I really don't, a handful maybe of second hand tools.

這是個相當細的問題。我先開始回答。我——以我現在坐在這裡、手上資料來看，我沒辦法告訴你百分比——或是——今年剩下時間我們有多少（音）訂單。我們提供給你的是新訂單——新機台訂單的積壓為 87。我們告訴你其中 70% 會在前六個月。除此之外，還有一些，我不知道有多少，我真的不知道，可能只有少數幾台二手機台。

We never include them in backlog numbers. No.

我們從不把它們納入積壓訂單數字中。不。

My question was more do we actually see now trying after two quarters, basically nine months of refurbished and specialized -, accounting for quite a lot of units? Or do you think it's basically a one off ...

我的問題比較是：在經過兩個季度、基本上九個月的翻新與特殊化之後，我們現在是否真的看到它們在嘗試中占了相當多的台數？還是你認為這基本上只是一次性的……

No, I think it is - I wouldn't call it a trend. But it is noticeable. There is a lot more activity in the second hand and refurbished market, which you could interpret here that some people here do, that there is a need for some capacity in the lower ends. And people don't want to invest in new tools. They want to look for cheaper second hand tools. And that's happening. And I think it's happening in Asia, especially in Asia but also in the U.S. and in Europe.

不，我認為——我不會稱之為趨勢。但它確實很明顯。二手機與翻新市場的活動多了很多；你可以像這裡有些人所解讀的那樣，認為低階端對產能有一些需求。而人們不想投資新設備。他們想找更便宜的二手設備。而這正在發生。我認為這在亞洲正在發生，尤其是在亞洲，但在美國與歐洲也有。

And so I do think that our special applications group is preparing for more second hand business than they probably thought a couple of months ago.

因此我確實認為，我們的特殊應用團隊正在為比他們幾個月前所想的更多二手業務做準備。

Great. And then in terms of end market, Q2 again based on ...

很好。然後就終端市場而言，第二季同樣是基於……

I think it's mostly, yes, it's circuit - in to the circuit market, actually. It's not - but we do have a constant stream of products that go in to the thin film head and Galanostard (ph) markets. And that's a fairly consistent level actually.

我想主要是，是進入電路——實際上是進入電路市場。並不是——但我們確實有一個持續的產品流，會進入薄膜磁頭與 Galanostard（音譯）市場。而那其實是相當一致的水準。

((inaudible)).

（（聽不清））。

Yes, but this is - the ones we are seeing, the ones that are fluctuating are for IC manufacturing silicon manufacturing.

是的，但這是——我們看到的、會波動的那些，是用於 IC 製造、矽晶製造的。

Right. But within that, again, any idea of where the memory versus logic versus ...

了解。但在那之中，再問一次，你對記憶體相對於邏輯相對於……有任何想法嗎？

No, it's not memory.

不，不是記憶體。

I'm talking about new tools again.

我是在談新機台。

Yes. You're talking new, I'm sorry. OK. We're back to new, OK. I think we've kind of given the answer to that question. We've exposed in the backlog that the percent of backlog for a memory tool is as opposed to foundry and logic. New memory is 34 percent of the backlog. Foundry is 23. Logic is 24. Microprocessor is 11. You know, there's bits and pieces of others. I can't do any better than that actually.

是。你在談新機台，抱歉。好。我們回到新機台，好。我想我們已經算是回答了那個問題。我們在積壓訂單中揭露了，記憶體機台的積壓占比相對於晶圓代工與邏輯。新的記憶體占積壓訂單的 34%。晶圓代工是 23%。邏輯是 24%。微處理器是 11%。你知道，還有其他零零碎碎的。我其實沒辦法講得更細了。

Yes, I think that is a reflection of what the market currently is and it's a good reflection of our customer base.

是的，我認為那反映了目前市場的狀況，也很好地反映了我們的客戶基礎。

OK. Thank you very much. And very last one if you have it at hand, any idea of what was the speed 300 millimeter and 200 millimeter tools shipped in Q3. -, news for this seminar we discussed in what you achieved in Q1?

好。非常感謝。最後一個問題，如果你手邊有資料的話：去年第三季出貨的 300 毫米與 200 毫米機台的比例大概是多少？——這是我們在這次研討會上討論的、你們在第一季達成的內容的延伸。

Last year?

去年？

Yes.

是。

Could be a little bit more specific? What do you want to know on Q3?

可以再具體一點嗎？你想知道第三季的哪一部分？

The ratio of TWINSCAN three millimeter as opposed to - four to one..

TWINSCAN 300 毫米相對於——的比例，四比一……

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thank you. We have time for one more question.

謝謝。我們還有時間再問一個問題。

Four 200 millimeter to one.

四台 200 毫米對一台。

Yes, four 200 millimeter to one 300 millimeter precisely, yes. We'll take one last question.

是的，精確地說，是四台 200 毫米對一台 300 毫米，沒錯。我們再接受最後一個問題。

Thank you. Mr. Yenhine Alts (ph), please go ahead with your question.

謝謝。Yenhine Alts 先生（音譯），請提出您的問題。

Yes, good evening. This is Yenhine Alts (ph) from bank in Singer (ph). Pretty small question, I believe. Given all of the information you just gave on gross margin development and to cost structure, what about the break even level? Are you still targeting a number of 160 systems toward the end of the year? Or is that number changed? And are some additional metrics maybe necessary in order to realize the 160 systems?

是的，晚安。我是來自 Singer 銀行（音譯）的 Yenhine Alts（音譯）。我想是個很小的問題。基於你們剛才提供的所有關於毛利率走勢與成本結構的資訊，那損益兩平水準呢？你們年底仍以 160 台系統為目標嗎？還是那個數字已經改變？另外，是否需要一些額外的指標，才能實現 160 台系統？

I think the 160 has not changed or thereabouts. I think we'll achieve in that in line with the cost reduction programs. And Peter explained, not that really doesn't kick in until middle of the year because of the labor regulations here and it will actually start in the U.S. So from the middle of this year, onwards, and annualized rate of 106 will break us even. Therefore, you know, you can have that for each half year.

我認為 160 這個數字沒有改變，或大致如此。我想我們會在成本削減計畫的配合下達成。Peter 也解釋過，因為這裡的勞動法規，那其實要到年中才會真正生效，而且會先在美國開始。所以從今年年中之後起算，年化水準 106 台就能讓我們損益兩平。因此，你知道，你可以把它拆成每半年來看。

OK. Thank you.

好。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. I'm going to conclude now so thanks for listening for those who stood the course. And I appreciate your questions and your interest. And I guess we now enjoy the luxury of speaking to each other every quarter rather than just twice a year. So I look forward to talking to you in July. Thank you.

謝謝。我現在要做結語，感謝各位收聽，尤其是一路聽到最後的各位。也感謝你們的提問與關注。我想我們現在可以享受每一季彼此交流的奢侈，而不只是每年兩次。所以我期待在七月再與各位通話。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the ASML first quarter results 2003 conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

各位女士、先生，ASML 2003 年第一季財報電話會議到此結束。感謝各位參與。您現在可以掛線。