台積電 ADR (TSM) 2015 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to TSMC's second quarter 2015 earnings conference and conference call. This is Elizabeth Sun, TSMC's Director of Corporate Communications and your host for today. Today's event is webcast live via TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. If you are joining us through the conference call, your dial-in lines are in listen-only mode. As this conference is being viewed by investors around the world, we will conduct the event in English only.

歡迎參加台積電2015年第二季業績發表會及電話會議。我是台積電企業傳播總監伊莉莎白·孫，也是今天的主持人。今天的活動透過台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 進行網路直播。如果您透過電話會議加入我們，您的撥入線路將處於只聽模式。由於此次會議將受到全球投資者的關注，因此我們將僅以英語進行此活動。

The format for today's event will be as follows. First, TSMC's Senior Vice President and CFO, Ms. Lora Ho, will summarize our operations in the second quarter, followed by our guidance for the third quarter. Afterwards, TSMC's two co-CEOs, Dr. Mark Liu and Dr. C.C. Wei, and TSMC's CFO Lora Ho will jointly provide our key messages. After that, TSMC's Chairman, Dr. Morris Chang, will host the Q&A session.

今天活動的形式如下。首先，台積電資深副總裁兼財務長何麗拉女士將總結我們第二季的營運情況，然後介紹我們對第三季的預期。隨後，台積電兩位聯席執行長劉德華博士和陳建昌博士分別致詞。魏哲家和台積電財務長何麗拉將共同傳達我們的關鍵訊息。隨後，台積電董事長張忠謀博士將主持問答環節。

For those participants on the call, if you do not yet have a copy of the press release, you may download it from TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. Please also download the summary slides in relation to today's earnings conference presentation.

對於電話會議的參與者，如果您尚未收到新聞稿，您可以從台積電網站 www.tsmc.com 下載。請同時下載與今天的收益會議報告相關的摘要投影片。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statement. Please refer to the Safe Harbor Notice that appears on our press release.

像往常一樣，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受重大風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。請參閱我們新聞稿中的安全港通知。

And now I would like to turn the podium to TSMC's CFO, Ms. Lora Ho, for the summary of operations and current quarter guidance.

現在，我想請台積電財務長何麗拉女士 (Ms. Lora Ho) 作營運總結和本季指引。

Thank you, Elizabeth. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to join us today. My presentation will start with financial highlights for the second quarter, followed by the guidance for the third quarter.

謝謝你，伊麗莎白。大家下午好。歡迎今天加入我們。我的演講將從第二季的財務亮點開始，然後是第三季的指引。

So now let me summarize our second quarter financial performance. In the second quarter, we have achieved TWD205b in revenue, 48.5% gross margin, 37.5% operating margin, and TWD3.06 in EPS, which were all within our guidance range.

現在讓我總結一下我們第二季的財務表現。第二季度，我們實現了營收2050億新台幣，毛利率48.5%，營業利潤率37.5%，每股收益3.06新台幣，均在我們的預期範圍內。

On a year-over-year basis, our revenue increased 12.2%, net income and EPS both increased 33% versus the last year same quarter. On a sequential basis, our revenue decreased by 7.5% due to customers' cautious inventory management and the less favorable exchange rate. However, we were able to largely offset the negative impacts with our continuous cost improvement efforts. Our gross margin decreased slightly to 48.5%.

與去年同期相比，我們的營收成長了 12.2%，淨收入和每股盈餘均比去年同期成長了 33%。由於客戶謹慎的庫存管理及匯率不利，我們的收入環比下降了 7.5%。然而，透過持續的成本改進努力，我們能夠很大程度上抵消負面影響。我們的毛利率略有下降至48.5%。

For the non-operating items, we have reported a gain of TWD21b. This significant one-time gain mainly came from two transactions. First, the ASML share disposal, we recognized TWD17.6b in the second quarter, which contributed to TWD0.60 to our EPS. Also we sold 5% of Vanguard shares, with a gain of TWD2.3b, which contributed to TWD0.08 of the second quarter EPS. The share disposal does not change our strategic relationship with ASML and Vanguard. We remain to be the largest shareholder of Vanguard, own 28%.

對於非經營項目，我們報告了210億新台幣的收益。這筆巨額一次性收益主要來自於兩筆交易。首先，ASML 股份出售，我們在第二季度確認了 176 億新台幣的收入，為我們的每股收益貢獻了 0.60 新台幣。我們也出售了5%的先鋒股份，獲利23億新台幣，為第二季每股收益貢獻了0.08新台幣。此次股份出售不會改變我們與 ASML 和 Vanguard 的戰略關係。我們仍然是先鋒集團的最大股東，持有28%的股份。

You may noticed we incurred higher tax rate in the second quarter. The tax expense went up to 24% in the second quarter as we accrued 10% retained earnings. We expect the 2015 full-year tax rate will be about 14%

您可能注意到我們在第二季承擔了更高的稅率。由於我們提列了 10% 的保留收益，因此第二季的稅費上漲了 24%。我們預計2015年全年稅率約為14%

Now, let's take a look at the revenue by application. During the second quarter, all major segments showed declines. Communication, computer, consumer, and industrial standards declined 3%, 24%, 21% and 1%, respectively.

現在，我們來看看各應用的收入。第二季度，所有主要板塊均出現下滑。通訊、電腦、消費和工業標準分別下降了 3%、24%、21% 和 1%。

In terms of revenue by technology, revenue contribution from 20 nanometer went up to 20% from 16% in the first quarter, while 28 nanometer contributed 27% of our wafer revenue this quarter. Accordingly, these two technologies, 20 nanometer and 28 nanometer, represented 47% of our second quarter wafer revenue, increased from the 46% from the first quarter.

從以技術劃分的收入來看，20奈米的收入貢獻從第一季的16%上升到20%，而28奈米本季貢獻了我們晶圓收入的27%。因此，20奈米和28奈米這兩種技術占我們第二季晶圓收入的47％，高於第一季的46％。

Moving to balance sheet. On the asset side, cash and marketable securities increased TWD32b to reach TWD550b at the end of the second quarter. On the liability side, current liabilities increased TWD122b, which was due to the accrual of TWD117b for cash dividend.

轉向資產負債表。資產方面，現金及有價證券增加320億新台幣，至第二季末達5,500億新台幣。負債方面，流動負債增加1,220億新台幣，是由於提列1,170億新台幣現金股利所致。

On financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days remained flat at 44 days. Days of inventory increased by 5 days to 62 days as we pre-build certain wafers in anticipation of the capacity conversion from 20 nanometer to 16 nanometer. In addition, higher raw material and longer production cycle time for leading nodes also increased the DOI a bit.

從財務比率來看，應收帳款週轉天數不變，為44天。由於我們預先生產了某些晶圓，以應對從 20 奈米到 16 奈米的產能轉換，庫存天數增加了 5 天，達到 62 天。此外，原物料價格上漲以及領先節點生產週期延長也略微增加了DOI。

Lastly, I would like to make a few comments on cash flow and CapEx. During the second quarter we generated TWD111b cash from operations and invested TWD54b in capital expenditure. Additionally, we received TWD39b from disposal of ASML shares and about TWD4b from the sell-down of 5% Vanguard shares.

最後，我想對現金流和資本支出發表一些評論。第二季度，我們營運產生的現金為1,110億新台幣，資本支出為540億新台幣。此外，我們還透過出售 ASML 股份獲得了 390 億新台幣，並透過出售 5% 的 Vanguard 股份獲得了約 40 億新台幣。

On financial -- financing cash flow, we repaid TWD13b for short-term debt. As a result, our cash balance reached TWD529b at the end of the second quarter.

在財務－融資現金流方面，我們償還了130億新台幣的短期債務。因此，我們的現金餘額在第二季末達到了5,290億新台幣。

The above are my comments on the second quarter financial performance. Now let me turn to the third-quarter outlook. Due to the end-demand recovery is not as strong as we expected earlier, customer continue to remain cautious in inventory management. Combining these factors with customers' production -- product transition, demand for our third quarter is expected to recover only modestly.

以上是我對第二季財務表現的評論。現在我來談談第三季的展望。由於終端需求復甦不如我們早先預期的強勁，客戶在庫存管理方面持續保持謹慎。結合這些因素以及客戶的生產－產品轉型，我們預期第三季的需求將僅小幅復甦。

Based on our current business outlook and exchange rate assumption of $1 to TWD31, we expect third quarter revenue to be between TWD207b and TWD210b, translate into 1% to 2% sequential growth; gross profit margin to be between 47% and 49%; and operating margin to be between 36.5% and 38.5%.

根據我們目前的業務前景和 1 美元兌 31 新台幣的匯率假設，我們預計第三季營收將在 2,070 億至 2,100 億新台幣之間，相當於季增 1% 至 2%；毛利率介於47%至49%之間；營業利潤率介於36.5%至38.5%之間。

As the remaining 20% ASML shares will be sold in the second half, we expect to recognize additional TWD4b disposal gain in the second half, which will translate into TWD0.12 and TWD0.01 EPS contribution to the third quarter and fourth quarter, respectively.

由於 ASML 剩餘的 20% 股份將在下半年出售，我們預計下半年將確認額外的 40 億新台幣處置收益，這將為第三季和第四季分別帶來 0.12 新台幣和 0.01 新台幣的每股收益貢獻。

This concludes my remarks. Let me turn the podium to co-CEO Mark Liu for his comments.

我的發言到此結束。請容許我請聯合執行長劉德華發表評論。

Good afternoon. I'd like to deliver the several key message to you. The first, I will cover the near-term demand and supply chain inventory. Lora reported our second-quarter results were in line with guidance made in our last investor meeting, which shows a 12.2% year-to-year revenue growth. In the April investor conference, we have also noted that supply chain inventory was quite high at the end of first quarter, but it was expected to be brought down to a seasonal level at the end of Q2.

午安.我想向你們傳達幾個關鍵訊息。首先，我將介紹近期需求和供應鏈庫存。Lora 報告稱，我們的第二季業績符合我們上次投資者會議的指引，即營收年增 12.2%。在4月的投資者會議上，我們也注意到第一季末的供應鏈庫存相當高，但預計到第二季末將降至季節性水準。

However, during the second quarter, Q2, we saw demand for smartphones became weaker than we expected, due to slower demand in emerging markets and in China for mid and low-end smartphones. This weaker demand is partly due to a strong US dollar to emerging market currencies and partly due to the regional economic conditions. As a result, the excess inventory in the supply chain has only been digested about half at the end of second quarter.

然而，在第二季度，我們發現智慧型手機的需求變得比我們預期的要弱，原因是新興市場和中國對中低階智慧型手機的需求放緩。需求減弱部分是因為美元兌新興市場貨幣走強，部分是因為區域經濟狀況。因此，截至第二季末，供應鏈中過剩的庫存僅被消化了一半左右。

The recent macro economy uncertainties in many parts of the world has further dampened supply chain's confidence in end-market demand and has caused customers to become even more cautious in managing their inventory. Slow demand in emerging markets and in China, more cautious inventory management by our customers, and macroeconomic uncertainties in many parts of the world -- those three reasons are behind our modest growth outlook in the third quarter.

近期全球許多地區宏觀經濟的不確定性進一步削弱了供應鏈對終端市場需求的信心，並導致客戶在管理庫存時更加謹慎。新興市場和中國的需求放緩、客戶對庫存的管理更加謹慎、世界許多地區的宏觀經濟不確定性——這三個原因是我們對第三季的成長前景持溫和態度的原因。

That being said, we expect our customers' end-market demand will improve in the second half from the first half. Growth is expected to come from industrial and automotive segments, as well as from new iPhone launches and several launches of Android-based high-end phones. In addition, the continuing 4G migration in China and the demand recovery in emerging markets will further support the growth outlook of second half this year.

話雖如此，我們預計下半年客戶的終端市場需求將比上半年有所改善。預計成長將來自工業和汽車領域，以及新款 iPhone 和幾款基於 Android 的高階手機的發布。此外，中國4G持續遷移以及新興市場需求復甦也將進一步支撐今年下半年的成長前景。

But as the demand outlook has changed, we update our 2015 full-year growth forecast as follows. Semiconductor growth revised from 4% to 3%. Foundry growth from 10% to 6%. For TSMC, we are still confident to outperform the foundry segment and still target double-digit growth rate this year.

但由於需求前景發生了變化，我們對 2015 年全年成長預測進行瞭如下更新。半導體成長率從 4% 修正為 3%。晶圓代工成長從10%降至6%。對於台積電，我們仍有信心超越晶圓代工領域，今年仍以兩位數的成長率為目標。

Now the message on TSMC market segment share. Thanks to our strong leadership in advanced technologies, TSMC has been able to gain foundry market segment shares in recent years. This year our market share will again be well-supported by the expansion of our advanced notes, namely 16 nanometer, 20 nanometer and 28 nanometer.

現在介紹一下台積電市場份額的消息。得益於在先進技術領域的強大領導地位，台積電近年來在晶圓代工市場不斷取得份額。今年，我們的市場份額將再次得到我們先進技術（即 16 奈米、20 奈米和 28 奈米）擴展的有力支持。

For 16 nanometer, we are starting our volume shipment as we speak. The ramping of our 16 nanometer will be very steep, even steeper than our 20 nanometer. Ramping profile, similar ramping profile at similar early stage.

對於 16 奈米，我們目前正在開始批量出貨。我們的 16 奈米的坡度將非常陡峭，甚至比我們的 20 奈米還要陡峭。爬坡輪廓，類似的爬坡輪廓在類似的早期階段。

Looking out to the future, with many more customers joining our 16 nanometer production, we are confident that we will achieve a far majority foundry share in 16 nanometer in 2016 and beyond.

展望未來，隨著越來越多的客戶加入我們的 16 奈米生產，我們有信心在 2016 年及以後在 16 奈米領域取得絕大多數代工份額。

For 20 nanometer, we remain the only foundry capable of volume supply in the second year of its ramp-up. For 28 nanometer, we continue to strengthen our technology offerings. Following our 28LP, 28HPL, 28HPM, we have 28LPRF, 28HPC and 28HPC+. Those new offerings will enable us to protect our 28 nanometer foundry segment share.

對於 20 奈米製程而言，我們仍然是唯一一家能夠在產能提升的第二年實現批量供應的代工廠。對於 28 奈米，我們繼續加強我們的技術產品。繼 28LP、28HPL、28HPM 之後，我們又推出了 28LPRF、28HPC 和 28HPC+。這些新產品將使我們能夠保護我們的28奈米代工市場份額。

With all the above, we continue to gain market segment share in 2015.

憑藉以上所有優勢，我們在 2015 年的市佔率持續成長。

Lastly, I'd like to have some comments, key messages on advanced technology development on 10 nanometer and 7 nanometer. The recent progress of our 10 nanometer technology development is very encouraging and on track with our plan. Technology risk start qualification is targeted at the end of this year, followed by many customers' product qualifications. Our volume production is planned to start from the end of 2016.

最後，我想就 10 奈米和 7 奈米先進技術發展發表一些評論和關鍵資訊。我們在10奈米技術開發方面取得的最新進展非常令人鼓舞，並且符合我們的計劃。技術風險啟動資格認證計畫於今年底完成，隨後也將進行多項客戶的產品資格認證。我們計劃從2016年底開始批量生產。

Our 10-nanometer technology is designed with excellent transistor performance spec and very aggressive chip-scaling factors. Compared with TSMC's 16 FinFET+, our 10-nanometer features has more than 15% speed gain at the same total power, or more than 35% power reduction at the same speed, and with gate density of 2.2 times of that of 16 FinFET+.

我們的 10 奈米技術具有出色的電晶體性能規格和非常積極的晶片縮放因子設計。與台積電的16 FinFET+相比，我們的10奈米製程在總功率相同的情況下速度提升了15％以上，在速度相同的情況下功耗降低了35％以上，閘極密度是16 FinFET+的2.2倍。

Many of our first-wave technology adopters have signed up for tape-outs with our 10 nanometer. So far, planned tape-outs have already include mobile application processors, network processors, and high-performance computing segments.

我們的許多第一波技術採用者已經簽約參與我們的 10 奈米技術的流片。到目前為止，計劃中的流片已經涵蓋行動應用處理器、網路處理器和高效能運算部分。

The development activity on our 7 nanometer is also ongoing with full steam. We have a parallel team working on that program. We target 7-nanometer technology qualification in the first quarter 2017, only five quarters after 10 nanometer.

我們的 7 奈米開發活動也在全速進行中。我們有一個平行的團隊致力於這個專案。我們的目標是在 2017 年第一季實現 7 奈米技術的認證，而 10 奈米技術認證僅花了五個季度的時間。

With further transistor speed enhancement and chip scaling from 10 nanometer, our customer can plan their tape-outs using the latest and the greatest technology available at the time when they launch their most competitive products. For 7 nanometer, similar to our 20-nanometer and 16-nanometer relationship, we are developing 7 nanometer to be able to leverage the process tool compatibility and maturity from 10-nanometer volume production.

隨著電晶體速度的進一步提升和晶片從 10 奈米開始的縮小，我們的客戶可以在推出最具競爭力的產品時，使用最新、最先進的技術來規劃他們的流片。對於 7 奈米，與我們與 20 奈米和 16 奈米的關係類似，我們正在開發 7 奈米，以便能夠利用 10 奈米批量生產的製程工具相容性和成熟度。

Above is my message. Now I turn the podium to C.C.

以上是我的留言。現在我將講台轉向 C.C.

Thank you, Mark. I will update the technology improvement volume manufacturing and competitiveness on three technology nodes, followed by an InFO business update.

謝謝你，馬克。我將更新三個技術節點上的技術來改進批量生產和競爭力，然後進行 InFO 業務更新。

First, on 28 nanometer, the demand outlook for TSMC's 28 nanometer remains strong. We continue to enhance our 28-nanometer technology, just like Mark just mentioned, by improving the performance. In addition to the 28LP, 28HPM, we have introduced 28HPC last year to enable our customers' conversion to 64-bit CPU for mid- to low-end market. Our 28HPC+ introduced this year can enable our customers to go after the market with multi-core which is from 4 to 8 to 10 and advanced LTE such as LTE Categories 4 to 6.

首先，在28奈米方面，台積電28奈米的需求前景依然強勁。正如馬克剛才提到的，我們將繼續透過提高性能來增強我們的 28 奈米技術。除了28LP、28HPM之外，我們去年還推出了28HPC，以協助我們的客戶轉換到針對中低階市場的64位元CPU。我們今年推出的28HPC+可以幫助我們的客戶進入4核心、8核心、10核心的多核心市場以及LTE Category 4到6等先進的LTE市場。

In addition to addressing the demand for the mid to low-end smartphone market, we have already seen demand for our 28-nanometer transceiver RF and flash controller begin increasing over time. Based on tape-out activities, we also anticipate customer in Wi-Fi, wearable, digital TV, set-top box, and image signal processor, will also start ramping next year using our 28 nanometer.

除了滿足中低階智慧型手機市場的需求外，我們已經看到對我們的28奈米收發器射頻和快閃記憶體控制器的需求隨著時間的推移開始增加。根據流片活動，我們也預期 Wi-Fi、穿戴式裝置、數位電視、機上盒和影像訊號處理器領域的客戶也將在明年開始採用我們的 28 奈米技術。

Ever since we introduced 28HPC and 28HPC+, we are met with customers' enthusiastic adoption. Almost all the new tape-outs are adopting either of these two processes. And the number of new tape-outs continue to increase and reaching a record level.

自從我們推出28HPC和28HPC+以來，就受到了客戶的熱烈歡迎。幾乎所有新的流片都採用這兩種流程中的一種。新流片的數量持續增加並達到創紀錄的水平。

Our 28 nanometer billing utilization rate was in the high-80s in second quarter, which is due to customers' inventory management. We expect this billing utilization to be recovered to above 90% in third quarter, the same as we mentioned in our last conference. We intend to keep our 28-nanometer utilization rate very high by providing the best and useful technology such as our 28HPC and 28HPC+ to our customers so that their new products will grow nicely in the market, and that will translate to increasing demand and higher loading rate for us.

我們的 28 奈米帳單利用率在第二季達到 80% 的高位，這得益於客戶的庫存管理。我們預計第三季計費利用率將恢復到 90% 以上，與我們上次會議上提到的一樣。我們打算透過向客戶提供最好、最實用的技術（例如 28HPC 和 28HPC+）來維持 28 奈米的高利用率，以便他們的新產品能夠在市場上良好發展，從而為我們帶來不斷增長的需求和更高的負載率。

Meanwhile, after having manufactured 28 nanometer for more than five years, we can also use our learning curve or cost advantage to compete with good profit margins. To summarize, we will keep our utilization rate high and we will use our technology and our cost advantage to compete effectively for 28 nanometer business.

同時，在生產28奈米技術五年多後，我們也可以利用我們的學習曲線或成本優勢，以良好的利潤率競爭。總而言之，我們將保持較高的利用率，並利用我們的技術和成本優勢有效競爭28奈米業務。

Next, 20 nanometer. Since we have begun ramping of 20 nanometer in the middle of last year, we have obtained the best progress in the reduction of defect density as compared to all previous nodes. We believe we will be able to leverage this record progress and enhance defect density reduction for our 16 nanometer.

接下來是20奈米。自從我們去年年中開始20奈米製程量產以來，與之前的所有節點相比，我們在缺陷密度的降低方面取得了最佳進展。我們相信，我們將能夠利用這項創紀錄的進展，並進一步降低 16 奈米的缺陷密度。

The demand for our 20 nanometer this year is still good. We expect our revenue from 20 nanometer will at least double the level we had last year. Since a majority of 20-nanometer business will migrate to 16 FinFET next year, we expect our 20-nanometer business will be lower than this year. However, we still expect 20 nanometer to be a long-lived node. We are converting right now part of 20-nanometer capacity into 16 FinFET to prepare for the ramp of 16 FinFET. So I move to 16 FinFET update.

我們今年20奈米的需求還是不錯的。我們預計 20 奈米的收入將至少比去年翻倍。由於明年大部分20奈米業務將遷移到16 FinFET，我們預計今年的20奈米業務將低於今年。然而，我們仍然預期 20 奈米將是一個長壽命的節點。我們目前正在將部分 20 奈米產能轉換為 16 FinFET，為 16 FinFET 的量產做準備。因此我轉向 16 FinFET 更新。

We have begun volume production of 16 FinFET in second quarter. Shipment has started this month. The high volume ramp in third quarter were mostly contributed to revenue in fourth quarter this year.

我們已經在第二季開始批量生產16 FinFET。本月已開始出貨。今年第三季的銷售量大幅成長對第四季的營收貢獻最大。

Since 16 nanometer shares similar metal backend process with 20 nanometer, our 16 FinFET can benefit a lot from 20-nanometer's learning. We have already shipped more than 0.5m wafer 20 SoC by now, so our 16 nanometer's yield and defect density has been excellent. And in fact, our 16 FinFET has set a new record for progresses made in the defect density reduction.

由於 16 奈米與 20 奈米共享類似的金屬後端工藝，我們的 16 FinFET 可以從 20 奈米的經驗中受益匪淺。到目前為止，我們已經出貨了超過50萬片晶圓20 SoC，因此我們的16奈米產量和缺陷密度非常出色。事實上，我們的 16 FinFET 在缺陷密度降低方面取得了新的進展。

As for device performance, we believe our 16 FinFET plus has the best transistor performance among all foundries. For low-power application, we have been developing 16FFC, which will be cost effective and will be important for future of IoT applications as well.

至於裝置性能，我們相信我們的 16 FinFET plus 在所有代工廠中擁有最好的電晶體性能。對於低功耗應用，我們一直在開發 16FFC，它具有成本效益並且對未來的物聯網應用也非常重要。

Last, let me update on InFO business. The schedule to ramp up InFO in second quarter next year remains unchanged. We have already begun moving manufacturing equipment into our new facility in Longtan which is close to be completed now.

最後，讓我更新一下 InFO 業務。明年第二季增加 InFO 的計畫保持不變。我們已經開始將製造設備搬入龍潭的新工廠，該工廠目前已接近完工。

We are also engaging with major customer for volume production in the second half next year. Our expectation of InFO contributing more than $100m quarterly by 4Q next year remains unchanged.

我們也正在與主要客戶合作，爭取明年下半年大量生產。我們對明年第四季 InFO 每季貢獻超過 1 億美元的預期保持不變。

TSMC's InFO technology does not need package substrate and also provides a high density interconnect. This allows our solution to have benefit in form factor, that is, package thickness and in electrical performance. We continue to work with major customer on developing the next-generation InFO for further improvement and device performance and package thickness.

台積電的InFO技術不需要封裝基板，同時也能提供高密度互連。這使得我們的解決方案在外形尺寸（即封裝厚度）和電氣性能方面具有優勢。我們繼續與主要客戶合作開發下一代 InFO，以進一步改善設備效能和封裝厚度。

I thank you for your attention. Now, turn the podium to Lora.

謝謝您的關注。現在，請將講台轉向 Lora。

So I will make comments on structural profitability, CapEx and the long-term financial objectives. Let me start with structural profitability. We employ two key indices to monitor our structural profitability. The first one is standard gross margin, referred to SGM, meaning the gross margin at a given level of utilization. The second one is standard utilization, the utilization level that we try to achieve or exceed.

因此，我將對結構盈利能力、資本支出和長期財務目標發表評論。讓我先從結構性獲利能力開始。我們採用兩個關鍵指數來監控我們的結構獲利能力。第一個是標準毛利率，簡稱SGM，也就是一定利用率下的毛利率。第二個是標準利用率，也就是我們試圖達到或超過的利用率水準。

Over the past five years we have seen consistent improvement in SGM while our utilization has also been at consistently high level. We plan to maintain or improve our structural profitability by maintaining or improving SGM and maintaining high utilization.

在過去的五年中，我們看到 SGM 持續改善，同時我們的利用率也保持在高水準。我們計劃透過維持或改善SGM和維持高利用率來維持或提高我們的結構性獲利能力。

For advanced technologies, we are careful in peak capacity planning. For mature mainstream technologies, we are increasing our capabilities in various specialty technologies to ensure all the legacy capacity can be fully utilized.

對於先進的技術，我們在尖峰容量規劃方面非常謹慎。對於成熟的主流技術，我們正在提升各種專業技術的能力，以確保所有遺留容量都能充分利用。

After three years of operating at a high capital intensity level, about 50% CapEx intensity during the period from 2011 to 2013, our CapEx to sales has come down to about 40% last year in 2014 and is expected to be at a similar level this year. Going forward, we estimate our capital intensity ratio will be at about mid-30s level for the next few years.

經過三年的高資本密集度運營，2011年至2013年期間資本支出強度約為50％，而去年2014年我們的資本支出與銷售額之比已降至40％左右，預計今年將達到類似水平。展望未來，我們預計未來幾年我們的資本密集度比率將維持在35%左右的水平。

Regarding CapEx, there may be some adjustments but we are evaluating the capacity conversion along with better productivity improvements. We are also increasing investment in specialty technologies. So for now, we keep our CapEx budget unchanged.

關於資本支出，可能會有一些調整，但我們正在評估產能轉換以及更好的生產力改善。我們也正在加大對專業技術的投資。因此目前我們維持資本支出預算不變。

Let me move into long-term financial objectives. Over the five-year target, meaning from 2015 to 2019, the five-year target calls for a compound annual growth rate of 10% for both revenue and net income and a bigger or equal 20% in ROE.

讓我來談談長期財務目標。五年目標，即從2015年到2019年的五年目標，要求營業收入和淨利的年複合成長率均為10%，ROE大於或等於20%。

The long-term growth rate of the overall semiconductor industry is expected to be growth about 4% to 6%, at a single digit -- mid-single-digit level. Foundry is expected to continue to outgrow the overall semiconductor market by a few points.

預計整體半導體產業長期成長率約為4%至6%，成長率在個位數-中個位數水準。預計晶圓代工業務的成長速度將繼續高於整體半導體市場幾個點。

We plan to achieve the 10% compound annual growth rate in revenue by carefully positioning ourselves with the right technology and build appropriate capacity to capture the business. With the right technologies and sufficient capacity, TSMC is well-positioned to continue gaining market segment share in the foundry segment.

我們計劃透過精心定位，採用正確的技術，並建立適當的能力來抓住業務，實現 10% 的複合年增長率。憑藉正確的技術和足夠的產能，台積電有能力繼續在代工領域獲得市場份額。

Our current five-year plan number is very close to the 10% revenue growth target. We believe we will grow double digit each year for the year 2015 and 2016, and we will continue to work on the 2017 to 2019 growth ahead of time. Thank you.

我們目前的五年計畫數字非常接近10％的收入成長目標。我們相信2015年和2016年每年都會實現兩位數的成長，並且我們將繼續提前努力實現2017年至2019年的成長。謝謝。

All right. Thank you. This concludes our prepared statements. Before we begin the Q&A session, I would like to remind everybody to limit your questions to two at a time to allow all participants an opportunity to ask their questions. Questions will be taken both from the floor and from the call. Should you wish to raise your question in Chinese, I will translate that to English before our management answers your questions.

好的。謝謝。我們的準備好的聲明到此結束。在我們開始問答環節之前，我想提醒大家每次提問的次數限制為兩個，以便所有參與者都有機會提問。問題將從現場和電話中回答。如果您想用中文提出問題，我會將其翻譯成英文，然後我們的管理層會回答您的問題。

(Conference Instructions.)

（會議指示。）

Now let's begin the Q&A session.

現在我們開始問答環節。

Our first question comes from the floor. It will be Bank of America Merrill Lynch's Dan Heyler.

我們的第一個問題來自現場。這位是美銀美林的 Dan Heyler。

Thanks for that. Thanks, Elizabeth. Gentlemen, good to see you again. Congratulations on the 10 nanometer on progress by the way. Relative to your competitors, that's good news.

謝謝。謝謝，伊麗莎白。先生們，很高興再次見到你們。順便祝賀你在 10 奈米方面的進展。相對於你的競爭對手來說，這是個好消息。

A couple of things. First, on -- I wanted to address growth for 2016. You did talk about the potential to grow over 10% next year. In light of the slowing smartphone market, if it was, say, a 5% unit growth for smartphone units per se, what type of semiconductor growth would you anticipate for the overall industry, and then secondly, for TSMC within mobile? Thanks.

有幾件事。首先，我想談談2016年的成長問題。您確實談到了明年成長超過 10% 的潛力。鑑於智慧型手機市場放緩，如果智慧型手機銷量本身成長 5%，您預計整個產業的半導體成長會達到什麼樣的水平？其次，您預期台積電在行動領域的成長會達到什麼樣的水平？謝謝。

Slow 2016 growth, what is the driver is the other question?

2016年經濟成長緩慢，另一個問題是原因是什麼？

Yes, with 5% growth in smartphones, what kind of growth can we expect from TSMC's mobile-related semiconductor --

是的，隨著智慧型手機成長 5%，我們可以期待台積電的行動相關半導體能達到什麼樣的成長——

You're talking about 2016, is that right? Well, first, we expect some market share gain, as C.C. had said and as I said a year ago, we expect that 16-nanometer market share will be much greater than our competitors, our next competitors. And overall, we also see other areas where we will be expanding market share. For instance, in the IoT area where immature, more or less advanced technologies are used, some of our customers are doing very well. So I expect gains in market share.

您說的是 2016 年，對嗎？首先，我們預計市場份額會增加，正如 C.C.正如我一年前所說的那樣，我們預計 16 奈米的市場份額將遠遠超過我們的競爭對手，即我們的下一個競爭對手。總體而言，我們還看到了將擴大市場份額的其他領域。例如在物聯網領域，雖然技術還不成熟，但或多或​​少還是比較先進的，我們的一些客戶做得很好。因此我預期市場佔有率將會成長。

And I also expect that the foundry segment of the semiconductor market will do better next year than this year. They did very well last year and so did we of course. We grew 25% last year. And we had a record fourth quarter last year. And our customers, for the most part, did very well last year also. And at the end of last year, it was, I think, last year, Christmas last year, was a Merry Christmas for a lot of people, and the expectations for this year were very high at that time. And, however, the big growth -- part of the big growth that we had last year went into supply chain inventory. And the supply chain inventory at the end of last year was indeed very high.

我還預計，明年半導體市場的代工部分的表現將比今年更好。去年他們表現非常好，當然我們也是。去年我們成長了25%。去年我們第四季創下了紀錄。整體而言，我們的客戶去年也表現十分出色。去年年底，我想，是去年，去年的聖誕節，對很多人來說都是一個快樂的聖誕節，當時對今年的期望很高。然而，去年我們實現的大幅成長部分來自於供應鏈庫存。而且去年年底的供應鏈庫存確實很高。

And now this year, with a number of things happening that Mark already mentioned, the outlook for this year has continued to deteriorate. And so in retrospect we should average last year's growth rate with this year's growth rate. Last year we grew 25%, and this year we're still looking for double-digit but certainly it's considerably lower than last year's 25%, this year. And so I do expect next year's organic growth rate, if you will, to be a little better than this year. And in addition to that, as I said, we expect market share gain.

而今年，隨著馬克已經提到的許多事情的發生，今年的前景持續惡化。因此，回想起來，我們應該將去年的成長率與今年的成長率平均起來。去年我們的成長了 25%，今年我們仍然希望實現兩位數的成長，但肯定比去年的 25% 低得多。因此我確實預計明年的有機成長率會比今年好一點。除此之外，正如我所說，我們預期市場佔有率將會成長。

Okay. Thank you. So if I hear you correctly, mobile could certainly achieve at least double-digit growth.

好的。謝謝。所以如果我沒理解錯的話，行動端肯定可以達到至少兩位數的成長。

Mobile. Mobile and smartphones?

移動的。行動裝置和智慧型手機？

Correct. So if you're growing at double-digit, would we see your -- the mobile part of your business grow, say, can it do a high single digit -- high double-digit type of growth, or should we see kind of growth across all the (multiple speakers) for you?

正確的。所以，如果你們的業務以兩位數的速度成長，我們是否會看到你們的行動業務部分實現成長，比如說，能夠實現高個位數——高兩位數的成長，或者我們應該看到你們所有業務（多位發言者）都實現增長？

Yes.

是的。

So, would we see more growth across all of your segments be a lot closer, say, in that high double-digit range? Thank you.

那麼，我們是否會看到所有部門的成長都更加接近，比如說，達到兩位數的高位成長範圍？謝謝。

Correct.

正確的。

Thank you. And the second question, kind of a sub-question to this growth line is, as you look at processors coming out today, 8-core, 10-core processors moving to 16 nanometer, Cortex 72 looks pretty much like a PC-level processor, I'm wondering what kind of computational opportunities are there for you to grow next year or as you look into the broader markets, with performance levels being as high as they are, we're now moving kind of out the smartphone era, much more into a compute capability, is that a growth opportunity --?

謝謝。第二個問題，也是這個增長線的一個子問題，當你看到今天問世的處理器時，8 核、10 核處理器正在轉向 16 奈米，Cortex 72 看起來很像 PC 級處理器，我想知道明年你們在計算方面有什麼樣的增長機會，或者當你放眼更廣闊的市場時，隨著性能水平的提高，我們現在正在進入智能能力，這一點時代更多

Higher performance -- higher performance computation. Mark, maybe you should answer the question.

更高的性能——更高性能的計算。馬克，也許你應該回答這個問題。

Yes, Dan. And indeed, the application processor of a smartphone is increased -- the complexity is keep increasing. And that has, still, that has to do with people -- user experience of the smartphone today.

是的，丹。事實上，智慧型手機的應用處理器不斷增大，其複雜性也不斷增加。而這仍然與人們——當今智慧型手機的使用者體驗——有關。

I think he was talking about something more than -- beyond smartphone, yes.

是的，我認為他談論的不僅僅是智慧型手機。

I'm getting there. And therefore, the silicon content of high-end smartphone we think will keep increasing because of that.

我快到了。因此，我們認為高階智慧型手機的矽含量將持續增加。

Now for IoT, I think it's a prelude of IoT application because IoT devices currently often as using the smartphone as a transmitter. And -- but that computation world hasn't really flourished yet I think. That has to do with service and application associated with IoT. And that is a big market we see the IoT will bring us in the future. And so that hasn't -- this one is not yet for the computation for the IoT world. That's my perspective. And that is growth momentum to come.

現在對於物聯網，我認為這是物聯網應用的前奏，因為物聯網設備目前通常使用智慧型手機作為發射器。而且——但我認為計算世界還沒有真正繁榮起來。這與物聯網相關的服務和應用有關。我們認為物聯網未來將為我們帶來巨大的市場。所以這還沒有——這個還不是用於物聯網世界的運算。這是我的觀點。這就是未來的成長動力。

So IoT as a portion of TSMC business today, do you guys have a rough ballpark figure of how much is IoT related to your business today and how big can it be? Relating maybe more just to the kind of the access point side of the equation. I know the processor side is difficult to calculate. Thanks.

因此，物聯網作為台積電目前業務的一部分，你們能大致估計一下物聯網與你們目前的業務有多大關係，以及關係有多大嗎？可能更多地只與等式的接入點類型相關。我知道處理器方面很難計算。謝謝。

I think Dan has got his two nickels worth with our long answers. So let's go on with it. Oh I'm sorry (multiple speakers).

我認為丹已經從我們的長篇回答中獲得了他應得的回報。那我們就繼續吧。哦，對不起（多位發言者）。

Let me give the answer to you. We see our customers bringing the connectivity function on many devices. So for us, the IoT portion is not specifically defined like other company would produce IoT product or services. So we see this trend will continue and proliferate in many, many different segments. So we see that part is keep increasing. But today it's hard to categorize a specific IoT among so many segments that we are doing today. We just see the connectivity and the computation is increasing in many segments.

讓我來告訴你答案。我們看到我們的客戶在許多設備上都使用了連接功能。因此對我們來說，物聯網部分並沒有像其他公司生產的物聯網產品或服務那樣進行具體的定義。因此，我們認為這種趨勢將會持續下去，並在許多不同領域蓬勃發展。因此我們看到該部分不斷增加。但今天，在我們今天所從事的如此多的領域中，很難對特定的物聯網進行分類。我們看到許多領域的連接性和運算能力正在不斷提高。

Interesting, thank you.

有趣，謝謝。

All right. Next we will have questions coming from Deutsche Bank, Michael Chou.

好的。接下來我們將回答來自德意志銀行的 Michael Chou 的問題。

Thank you for taking my question. My first question is since Intel is saying they will slow down the process migration to 2.5 years, the cadence actually would be longer than the previous node. So will that be the case for TSMC in 7-nanometer from 10 to 7?

感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是，由於英特爾表示他們將把流程遷移速度放慢至 2.5 年，因此節奏實際上會比前一個節點更長。那麼台積電在 7 奈米製程上也會出現同樣的情況嗎？

Well, you are looking at it right now. What was the time between 16 and 10? Two years. And -- it was two years. And the time between 10 and 7 is around one year. So for those two generations for us anyway, it's three years. Now, well, Intel says it's two years. Well, maybe we could do it sooner but maybe Intel might do it later and we might do it later too. Two and half sounds right. Did you understand my answer?

嗯，你現在正在看它。16 點到 10 點之間的時間是多少？兩年。並且——已經兩年了。而10歲到7歲之間的時間大約是一年。所以對我們這兩個世代來說，這是三年。現在，英特爾表示需要兩年。好吧，也許我們可以早點做，但也許英特爾可能會晚點做，我們也可能會晚點做。兩年半聽起來是對的。你明白我的回答了嗎？

Yes. Thank you. The second question is given that you should start mass production of 10 nanometer by the end of 2016, so your customers' 10-nanometer product may hit the market in Q2 2017.

是的。謝謝。第二個問題是，你們應該在2016年底開始量產10奈米，所以你們客戶的10奈米產品可能會在2017年第二季上市。

Yes. So you are trying to calculate -- triangulate the time when the customers' product will arrive at the marketplace using TSMC's 10 nanometer.

是的。所以你要嘗試計算——利用台積電的 10 奈米技術估算出客戶的產品進入市場的時間。

Can we answer that question?

我們能回答這個問題嗎？

You try to narrow down exactly the time. But actually we ramp up 10 nanometer in the 4Q 2016 next year as Mark mentioned. But the real product shipment will be in 1Q 2017, yes. Exactly the new products into the market, I cannot comment.

您嘗試精確地縮小時間範圍。但實際上，正如馬克所提到的，我們將在明年 2016 年第四季推出 10 奈米技術。但真正的產品發貨將在2017年第一季度，是的。對於具體進入市場的新產品，我無法評論。

But since Intel say that their 10-nanometer platform will be in the second half 2017 so does that mean your 10-nanometer progress could be better than -- faster than Intel. Can we say that?

但是，由於英特爾表示他們的 10 奈米平台將於 2017 年下半年推出，這是否意味著你們的 10 奈米進展可能會比英特爾更好、更快。我們可以這麼說嗎？

I only say that our product 10 nanometer will be in the first quarter of year 2017.

我只說我們的產品10奈米會在2017年第一季推出。

All right. Next we will have questions coming from Credit Suisse, Randy Abrams.

好的。接下來我們將回答瑞士信貸的蘭迪艾布拉姆斯 (Randy Abrams) 的問題。

Thanks. The first question I wanted to ask about the inventory correction. It's extended for two quarters. Now are you expecting as we go in the fourth quarter, potential for restocking where we traditionally go into a low season or do we wait until after Chinese New Year?

謝謝。我想問的第一個問題是關於庫存調整。該計劃將延長兩個季度。現在您是否預計，隨著第四季度的到來，我們可能會進入傳統淡季，從而有補貨的潛力，還是要等到農曆新年之後？

And then with 16-nanometer ramping up how much could that support fourth quarter being above seasonal? And also how do you see that 16-nanometer ramp in first half, if you expect to continue the steep ramp on 16 in the first half next year or it's more of a second half event?

那麼隨著 16 奈米技術的加速發展，第四季的業績能有多大程度高於季節性？另外，您如何看待上半年 16 奈米科技的發展？您是否預計明年上半年 16 奈米技術將繼續快速發展，還是說這更多是下半年的事情？

Mark.

標記。

Well, the inventory picture is what you said correctly. And for the 16-nanometer, it's all are new products. So at this point we are ramping, but the inventory issue is not in the picture. We just keep the production ramp and in the second half this year and getting to the first half of next year.

嗯，庫存照片是你說的對。對於16奈米來說，全部都是新產品。因此，目前我們正在加大生產，但庫存問題尚未解決。我們只是維持產量成長，在今年下半年到明年上半年進行。

Now only as we know that the demand, the customer demand is very strong and that is different than the inventory level I was commenting about.

現在我們只知道需求，客戶需求非常強勁，這與我所評論的庫存水平不同。

There's no supply chain inventory of 16 nanometer yet.

目前還沒有16奈米的供應鏈庫存。

There's two parts to it. The first part is the core business, the existing 20 and above, if you expect restocking in fourth quarter. And then for 16 if you expect there's still a steep ramp in fourth quarter and then also a steep ramp continuing in the first half.

它有兩個部分。第一部分是核心業務，現有的20家及以上，如果預計第四季會補貨。然後對於 16，如果您預計第四季度仍會出現陡峭的上升趨勢，然後在上半場也會繼續出現陡峭的上升趨勢。

I guess I was curious do you expect the core business to have restocking in the fourth quarter so that's above seasonal. And then also do you expect 16 to have a steep ramp continue in the first half.

我想我很好奇，您是否預計核心業務將在第四季度補貨，以致於高於季節性。那麼，您是否仍預期 16 在上半年會持續出現急遽上升趨勢？

We expect the core business will in -- still continue in the depletion mode until the end of this year. Now then coming to the first quarter, we might see a restocking. But, as you know, the first quarter is a seasonal weaker quarter. So that two competition how that reflects on our demand is yet to be seen yet.

我們預計核心業務將在今年底前繼續處於耗竭模式。現在到了第一季度，我們可能會看到補貨。但如您所知，第一季是季節性疲軟的季度。因此，這兩場競爭如何反映我們的需求還有待觀察。

So, Randy, I suppose you have another part of your question, which is with the fast, steep ramp of 16 nanometer in 4Q, will we still have a fast, steep ramp of 16 nanometer in 1Q next year. That's your second part, right?

所以，蘭迪，我想你的問題還有另一部分，那就是隨著第四季度 16 奈米技術的快速、陡峭增長，明年第一季我們是否仍將迎來 16 奈米技術的快速、陡峭增長。這是你的第二部分，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay, good. And if you could, the second question is on the CapEx. You mentioned capital intensity coming down. Was that a statement on next year so capital intensity reflects how we should look at 2016? And so far you're under-spending CapEx this year, so I'm just curious how you're seeing the overall CapEx levels whether it's kind of tracking similar ballpark this year and next year. And is there potential to actually start raising the dividend again next year if CapEx is not going up?

好的，很好。如果可以的話，第二個問題是關於資本支出的。您提到了資本密集度下降。這是關於明年的聲明嗎，那麼資本密集度是否反映了我們應該如何看待 2016 年？到目前為止，今年您的資本支出還不足，所以我很好奇您如何看待整體資本支出水平，今年和明年是否大致相同。如果資本支出不增加，明年是否有可能真正開始再次提高股利？

Yes, I just said the capital intensity will come down to the mid-30 level for the coming few years. With that and with the 10% growth target that we are targeting for, we are confident we are able to generate increasing free cash flow from operations. So we will consider dividend increase on a year-by-year basis when the time comes.

是的，我剛才說了，未來幾年資本密集度會降到30左右的水平。有了這一點，再加上我們設定的 10% 的成長目標，我們有信心能夠從營運中產生越來越多的自由現金流。因此，我們會在適當的時候考慮逐年增加股利。

All right. I think this is about time that we will take our next question from the call. Operator, please proceed with the first caller on the line.

好的。我想現在是時候回答電話會議中的下一個問題了。接線員，請繼續接聽線路上的第一位來電者。

Donald Lu, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的唐納德·盧（Donald Lu）。

It's Donald Lu from Goldman Sachs, okay.

他是高盛的 Donald Lu，好的。

Thank you very much. My first question is on the computing opportunities. I think now TSMC seems to be narrowing the gap in the process technology and when should we see that the TSMC is really enter the notebook market? And also what is preventing TSMC to ARM server or even TSMC to enter the notebook market in large volume? Is that software or more of hardware.

非常感謝。我的第一個問題是關於計算機會。我覺得現在台積電似乎正在縮小製程製程的差距，什麼時候我們才能看到台積電真正進入筆記型電腦市場呢？還有什麼阻礙了台積電轉向ARM伺服器，甚至台積電大批量進入筆記型電腦市場呢？那是軟體還是硬體？

Elizabeth, you need to repeat the question.

伊莉莎白，你需要重複這個問題。

Donald, I have to tell you that we did not really get your voice very clearly in here. So I'm just going to repeat your question and correct me if I didn't hear you right. Your question is what is TSMC's opportunities in computation segment. Due to our ability to narrow the technology gap, when are we able to enter this market? And you are asking what is our advantage or differentiation especially if we are thinking of the market area where the ARM servers are related. Is this your question?

唐納德，我不得不告訴你，我們在這裡確實聽不太清楚你的聲音。因此我只是重複你的問題，如果我沒有聽清楚的話，請糾正我。您的問題是台積電在計算領域的機會是什麼。由於我們有能力縮小技術差距，什麼時候我們能夠進入這個市場？您問的是我們的優勢或差異是什麼，特別是當我們考慮 ARM 伺服器相關的市場領域時。這是你的問題嗎？

Yes. And also not only ARM servers but also notebook.

是的。而且不只是 ARM 伺服器，還有筆記型電腦。

Also notebook, okay.

還有筆記本，好的。

Yes. And also what is the bottleneck today. Is that software related or it's more of the hardware?

是的。以及今天的瓶頸是什麼。這與軟體有關嗎？還是與硬體有關？

What will be the other factors that we need to overcome such software or architecture.

我們還需要哪些因素來克服這樣的軟體或架構？

Yes.

是的。

Also notebook?

還有筆記本？

Notebook yes. Servers and notebook.

筆記本是的。伺服器和筆記本。

I think we are obviously very actively pursuing that market. As to what our advantage will be, it's our advantage as a foundry. We are pursuing or we're going to pursue this market, this higher performance computational market with our foundry experience and foundry record and also the degree of trust that our customers have placed on us. That's our advantage. So that's our differentiation.

我認為我們顯然非常積極地開拓該市場。至於我們的優勢是什麼，那就是我們身為代工廠的優勢。我們正在或將要憑藉我們的代工經驗和代工記錄以及客戶對我們的信任度來追求這個市場，這個更高性能的計算市場。這是我們的優勢。這就是我們的差異化。

Now of course we need a very capable partner as well as ARM. ARM we already have. ARM is a valuable -- has been a valuable partner for us for many years now. But in addition to ARM, we also will need a capable design company. And then the partners together, the three main ones, TSMC, ARM, the design company and many others that we have always had, the equipment people, etc., we think that we have a chance of becoming an important factor in that market.

現在我們當然需要一個非常有能力的合作夥伴，就像 ARM 一樣。ARM我們已經有了。ARM 多年來一直是我們寶貴的合作夥伴。但除了ARM，我們還需要一家有能力的設計公司。然後，我們將合作夥伴放在一起，包括三個主要的合作夥伴，台積電、ARM、設計公司以及我們一直擁有的許多其他公司、設備人員等，我們認為我們有機會成為市場的重要因素。

Donald, are you happy with the answer?

唐納德，你對這個答案滿意嗎？

Yes. Can you be more specific about -- Chairman, you talked about the capable partner. I believe there has been a few companies buying in the notebook market. Do you mean that you will be expecting a new company in this market or existing CPU companies to use TSMC as a foundry.

是的。您能否更具體地說明一下—主席，您談到了有能力的合作夥伴。我相信已經有少數公司進入筆記型電腦市場。您的意思是，您會期待這個市場上的新公司或現有的 CPU 公司使用台積電作為代工廠嗎？

Again I have to apologize because of the voice transmission has not been quite clear. So let me repeat what we think we have heard from you is that you want something more specific such as when Chairman talked about the capable partners in terms of design companies. And you are asking in the notebook area, there are -- I think you were saying that there are some consolidations and then what will be -- whether we will be able to have new customers coming in to work with TSMC as a good partner in this area. Is that what you were saying?

由於語音傳輸不太清晰，我再次向您表示歉意。因此，請讓我重複我們認為從您那裡聽到的內容，您想要一些更具體的內容，例如當主席談到設計公司方面有能力的合作夥伴時。您問的是筆記型電腦領域，我想您說的是有一些合併，那麼我們是否能夠吸引新客戶與台積電合作，成為該領域的良好合作夥伴。這就是你所說的嗎？

Specifically who the partners -- who our partners will be? Well, specifically, who are the most capable design companies? And our partners will be among those.

具體來說，我們的合作夥伴是誰？那麼具體來說，最有能力的設計公司有哪些呢？我們的合作夥伴也在其中。

Okay. I guess let's come back to the floor and we will see if we can fix the voice issues on the call. Let me come back to the floor. Next we'll be having questions coming from UBS, Eric Chen.

好的。我想讓我們回到現場，看看是否可以解決通話中的語音問題。讓我回到正題上。接下來我們將回答來自瑞銀 (UBS) 的 Eric Chen 的問題。

Okay, thank you. Good afternoon. My first question I would like to go to Lora. And Lora, you just mentioned the free cash flow will keep increase and let me double check. You mentioned before the free cash flow at the end of this year will double from the end of year 2013. Is that correct?

好的，謝謝。午安.我的第一個問題是問洛拉 (Lora)。而且 Lora，您剛才提到自由現金流將持續增加，讓我再確認一下。您之前提到過，今年年底的自由現金流將比2013年底翻倍。那正確嗎？

I don't have 2013 in front of me. I think based on our current outlook for the whole year, it should be right.

我面前還沒有2013年。我認為根據我們目前對全年的展望，這應該是正確的。

Okay. So that indicates probably 35%, 40% year-on-year growth. Based on the CapEx to revenue ratio, the can I say guidance, the mid-30% you give and also the revenue target, so can we expect the same ratio growth for your free cash flow going forward?

好的。所以這意味著同比增長可能為 35% 到 40%。根據資本支出與收入的比率，我可以說指導價是，您給出的中間 30% 以及收入目標，那麼我們是否可以預期您未來的自由現金流會有相同的比率增長？

I cannot answer that way. You have to figure out because I just said is revenue growth and free cash flow is going to increase. But it's hard for me to quantify the degree of increase every year. It's difficult.

我無法這樣回答。你必須弄清楚，因為我剛剛說過收入成長和自由現金流將會增加。但我很難量化每年的成長程度。它很難。

Okay. Okay, how about the other way. How about depreciation expenses growth? You gave a guidance for this year around mid teens. And based on your CapEx and the revenue target going forward, what kind of depreciation expenses growth we should expect?

好的。好的，那另一種方式怎麼樣？折舊費用成長如何？您為今年十幾歲的青少年提供了指導。並且根據您的資本支出和未來的收入目標，我們應該預期折舊費用會增加多少？

I can only talk about this year, okay, because we have not fixed the CapEx for the remaining years. This year the depreciation is expected to go up by 13% year over year.

我只能談今年，因為我們還沒有確定剩餘年份的資本支出。今年預計折舊金額將年增13%。

13?

13？

13% which is lower than the number I gave you last time. I said mid teen last time.

13%，比我上次給你的數字低。我上次說的是十幾歲。

Okay. And my second question I would like to go to Dr. Chang. And first on the EUV, how about the EUV schedule for 10-nanometer process? Some people talk about the window is closed. And how about the EUV for 7-nanometer process?

好的。我的第二個問題是想問張博士。首先是關於 EUV，10 奈米製程的 EUV 時間表如何？有些人談論窗戶被關閉。那麼 EUV 用於 7 奈米製程的情況如何？

I will pass the question to Mark.

我會將這個問題轉交給馬克。

The window is not closed. We work very closely with ASML and however it's not without challenges. And we made a very good progress on the source power as well as on the photo resist. And for mass inspection solution it appears more likely. However, the current technology's challenge is more on the mask of the EUV technologies. That is currently actively we're working with ASML.

窗戶沒有關上。我們與 ASML 密切合作，但也面臨挑戰。我們在光源功率和光阻方面都取得了很好的進展。對於大規模檢查解決方案而言，這似乎更有可能。不過目前技術的挑戰更多的是在EUV技術的光罩版上。目前我們正在積極與 ASML 合作。

On the tools stability we have a criteria for the working team to reach a certain target. And that target is likely to reach by the end of this year and then we will start development using EUV tools.

在工具穩定性方面，我們有一個標準，要求工作團隊達到一定的目標。這個目標很可能在今年年底實現，然後我們將開始使用 EUV 工具進行開發。

As you can see in our 7-nanometer development schedule that probably will not using EUV. But we are planning to exercise EUV using the 7-nanometer technology and currently we are planning to use EUV at 5 nanometer. But of course it does depend certain development criteria, milestones to be reached. And it has a good benefit from our assessment on the 7 -- on the 5 nanometer that reduce a lot of many masking layers and increase a lot of better control for the 5 nanometer.

正如您在我們的 7 奈米開發計劃中所看到的，可能不會使用 EUV。但我們計劃使用 7 奈米技術來實施 EUV，目前我們計劃在 5 奈米技術上使用 EUV。但當然，這確實取決於某些發展標準和要達到的里程碑。從我們對 7 奈米至 5 奈米的評估來看，它具有很好的優勢，可以減少許多掩蔽層並增強對 5 奈米的控制。

Okay, so let me clarify. Even for the 10 nano the window for the EUV for the 10-nanometer process is not closed yet.

好的，讓我澄清一下。即使對於 10 奈米來說，EUV 用於 10 奈米製程的窗口尚未關閉。

For 7 as I say we will exercise EUV on 7 nanometer. And we will plan our EUV on our 5-nanometer technology.

對於 7，正如我所說，我們將在 7 奈米上運用 EUV。我們將在 5 奈米技術上規劃 EUV。

But not for 10. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you very much.

但不是 10。好的，謝謝。好的，非常感謝。

I think Eric has his two questions. He will come back later.

我認為埃里克有兩個問題。他稍後會回來。

Next one I think is a question will come from Citigroup's Roland Shu.

我認為下一個問題將來自花旗集團的 Roland Shu。

I'm sorry, Roland, before you ask questions, let me make a brief announcement.

抱歉，羅蘭，在您提問之前，請容許我先簡單宣布一下。

For those of you who are on the line trying to call in for questions, since we have this voice transmission problem, could you please send me your questions in email to my mailbox so that I can read out your questions. And I think most of you know my email address. That's Elizabeth_sun@tsmc.com. So if you are on the line waiting to ask questions please send me your questions through email. Thank you. So Roland now.

對於那些試圖打電話詢問的人，由於我們遇到了語音傳輸問題，您能否將您的問題透過電子郵件發送到我的郵箱，以便我可以讀出您的問題。我想大多數人都知道我的電子郵件地址。您的電子郵件地址是 Elizabeth_sun@tsmc.com。因此，如果您正在在線等待提問，請透過電子郵件向我發送您的問題。謝謝。現在是羅蘭。

Thank you. Good afternoon. I think my first question we know there are customer deposit to TSMC to reserve the capacity. Can we have more color on how TSMC is going to recognize the revenue for these customer deposits? Is the 3Q revenue guidance included these customer deposits? Thank you.

謝謝。午安.我的第一個問題是我們知道客戶向台積電存入押金以保留產能。我們能否更詳細地了解台積電將如何確認這些客戶存款的收入？第三季的營收預期是否包括這些客戶存款？謝謝。

The customer deposits is a balance sheet item. So it not has to do with the P&L. There's a certain commitment from customers on loading. When they reach the loading we will return part of the deposit to them, so still a balance sheet item.

客戶存款是資產負債表項目。所以它與損益表無關。客戶對於裝載有一定的承諾。當他們達到裝貨量時，我們會將部分押金退還給他們，因此這仍然是資產負債表項目。

Okay, so they never go to the P&L.

好的，所以他們從來不去看損益表。

They are not.

但事實並非如此。

Okay, understood. Thank you. Okay, second question is for 28 nanometer, I think C.C. said there's a lot of second wave opportunity for 28 nanometer. And 28 nanometer last year contributed almost $8b in revenue to TSMC. So the question is with this contribution for second wave 28-nanometer application, for next year are we going to see 28-nanometer revenue continue to expand even more than this $8b level?

好的，明白了。謝謝。好的，第二個問題是關於 28 奈米的，我認為是 C.C。表示 28 奈米還有很大的第二波機會。去年28奈米為台積電貢獻了近80億美元的收入。所以問題是，有了第二波 28 奈米應用的貢獻，明年我們是否會看到 28 奈米收入繼續擴大甚至超過 80 億美元的水平？

Can you repeat this?

你能重複一遍嗎？

So Roland's question is that 28 nanometer has been a very big node for us. Last year according to Roland's estimate that we have made $8b revenue from 28 nanometer. So with the second wave applications coming in, his question is will we be able to expand that $8b revenue next year from 28 nanometer's second wave customers.

所以羅蘭的問題是，28奈米對我們來說是一個非常大的節點。去年根據Roland的估計，我們從28奈米技術中獲得了80億美元的收入。因此，隨著第二波應用的出現，他的問題是，我們明年是否能夠從 28 奈米的第二波客戶擴大 80 億美元的收入。

I don't know about the $8b. If you think it's $8b maybe it's $8b. I can't verify that. But I can say that 28 nanometer will continue to be strong for several years.

我不知道那 80 億美元是怎麼回事。如果你認為是 80 億美元，那麼也許就是 80 億美元。我無法證實這一點。但我可以說，28奈米在未來幾年仍將保持強勁勢頭。

Okay, thank you. If I can -- maybe I can ask another question. For 20 nanometer and 16 nanometer, I think TSMC always said this will be the same technology node and also we are expecting much bigger market share for 16-nanometer next year. So will the combined 20-nanometer and 16-nanometer revenue to reach or bigger than 28-nanometer last year?

好的，謝謝。如果可以的話——也許我可以問另一個問題。對於 20 奈米和 16 奈米，我認為台積電一直表示這將是相同的技術節點，我們預計明年 16 奈米的市佔率將大大增加。那麼，20奈米和16奈米的總收入是否會達到或超過去年的28奈米？

What is the question?

問題是什麼？

For 20-nanometer and 16-nanometer revenue together next year, will this revenue bigger than 28-nanometer revenue in last year or this year?

明年20奈米和16奈米的收入加起來，會比去年或今年的28奈米收入更大嗎？

Okay, 20 plus 16 together next year, will that be bigger than 28 nanometer last year or this year?

好的，明年20加16加起來會比去年或今年的28奈米大嗎？

Again I don't know the answer to that. But I can say is that 16 next year will be much bigger than 20 this year. And as a percent of total corporate revenue, 16 next year will be higher than 20 this year. And next time Roland will probably come in and tell me how many billion dollars we are billing.

我還是不知道答案。但我可以說的是，明年的 16 個將比今年的 20 個多得多。而佔企業總收入的比例，明年的16%將高於今年的20%。下次羅蘭可能會進來告訴我我們的帳單金額是多少億美元。

Okay. Now at this point I think we have Brett Simpson on the line and he has already sent me his questions. So operator, first please open the line for Brett Simpson and then I'm reading out his questions. And then our management can answer and then Brett may have a follow up.

好的。現在，我認為布雷特辛普森 (Brett Simpson) 已經接通了電話，他已經向我發送了他的問題。接線員，請先接通布雷特辛普森的電話，然後我會讀出他的問題。然後我們的管理層可以回答，然後布雷特可能會進行跟進。

Brett Simpson's question number one, you talked about your outlook for 16-nanometer -- no, for 2016, double-digit revenue growth and mid-30s CapEx to sales ratio. What do you foresee FinFET to be as a percent of sales in 2016 and directionally how might 28-nanometer and 20-nanometer trend? Can they grow in 2016?

布雷特辛普森的第一個問題，您談到了對 16 納米的展望——不，對於 2016 年，兩位數的收入增長和 30% 左右的資本支出與銷售額比率。您預計 2016 年 FinFET 的銷售額佔比是多少？ 28 奈米和 20 奈米的發展趨勢如何？它們能在 2016 年成長嗎？

Say it again.

再說一遍。

16-nanometer percentage of revenue next year. So whether 28 and 20-nanometer will be bigger next year than this year.

16奈米佔明年收入的百分比。那麼明年 28 奈米和 20 奈米是否會比今年更大。

16's percentage of revenue will be what?

16 的收入百分比是多少？

Yes, he's asking us how much we will get as a percent of revenue from 16-nanometer next year.

是的，他問我們明年 16 奈米科技能為我們帶來多少比例的收入。

Well, I stick with my previous answer. 16 next year our revenue percentage and revenue dollars will be greater than 20 this year.

好吧，我堅持我之前的答案。16 明年我們的收入百分比和收入金額將比今年的 20 還要多。

All right.

好的。

And is there another one? Is there another question?

還有其他的嗎？還有其他問題嗎？

Okay. The second part is 28-nanometer and 20-nanometer whether they will be bigger next year than this year.

好的。第二部分是28奈米和20奈米，明年是否會比今年更大。

28?

28？

And 20.

和 20。

And 20 will be --

20 將是—

His question is whether they will be bigger next year than this year.

他的問題是明年的規模是否會比今年更大。

20 -- do you know the answer to that one?

20－您知道這個問題的答案嗎？

C.C. and Mark was talking about expanding the 28 technology offering to more features. So with that we believe our 2016 28-nanometer revenue will continue to grow. It will be bigger than this year.

C.C.馬克正在談論將 28 種技術擴展到更多功能。因此我們相信 2016 年 28 奈米收入將持續成長。它將比今年更大。

I think 20-nanometer we have already mentioned in C.C.'s comments earlier which is a smaller level next year than this year. I think C.C. has already mentioned that.

我認為我們之前在 C.C. 的評論中已經提到過 20 奈米，這是明年比今年更小的水平。我認為是 C.C.已經提到過這一點。

Okay, so Brett's second question. Consolidation among your customers, they are talking about savings with foundry partners as a result of higher scale economies. Can you give us your perspective on the impact that large-scale M&A has on wafer pricing?

好的，這是布雷特的第二個問題。您的客戶之間進行整合，他們正在談論由於規模經濟的提高而與代工合作夥伴一起實現的節省。您能否談談大規模併購對晶圓定價的影響？

I don't expect any impact. I think of course when two companies combine there are synergies and there are savings. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to save for them.

我預計不會有任何影響。我認為，兩家公司合併當然會產生綜效，並能節省成本。但這並不一定意味著我們必須為他們存錢。

Okay. This is a very clear answer. And Brett has another question. When you think about capacity planning for 10 nanometer, 7 nanometer how does this compare with 28 capacity and 20/16 nanometer. Should we assume that with lower capital intensity that 10 and 7 nanometer will be smaller nodes for TSMC in wafer capacity?

好的。這是一個非常明確的答案。布雷特還有另一個問題。當你考慮 10 奈米、7 奈米的容量規劃時，這與 28 容量和 20/16 奈米相比如何。我們是否應假設，在資本密集度較低的情況下，10 奈米和 7 奈米對於台積電的晶圓產能將是較小的節點？

Say it again.

再說一遍。

Whether or not 10 and 7 will be smaller than 20 and 16.

10 和 7 是否小於 20 和 16。

In what?

在哪方面？

In capacity.

在容量上。

Look, let me just say it in an overall sense. We expect -- 28 of course was very successful and we expect 20 and 16 together to be at least as successful as 28 over its -- over the two lives -- over the lives of the two. In fact, we expect 20 and 16 together to be bigger in revenue over the lives of those two technologies than 16.

你看，讓我從總體上講一下。我們期望——28 歲當然非常成功，我們期望 20 歲和 16 歲加起來至少能與 28 歲一樣成功——在兩個人的一生中——在兩個人的一生中。事實上，我們預計，在這兩種技術的生命週期內，20 加 16 的收入將比 16 更高。

Now 10 and 7, our present plan is that in terms of wafers it may be -- combining the 10 and 7 together, in terms of wafers, it may be a bit lower than 20 and 16. In terms of dollars we expect it to be as significant as 20 and 16 over -- again over the lives of the respective technologies.

現在是 10 和 7，我們目前的計劃是，就晶圓而言，將 10 和 7 結合起來，就晶圓而言，可能會比 20 和 16 略低一些。以美元計算，我們預計在各自技術的生命週期內，它將分別達到 20 和 16 的水平。

Okay. Brett, I think we have addressed all three questions you sent over. And if you have further follow-up please send me an email again. Let's come back to the floor. Next we will -- questions will be coming from Daiwa's Rick Hsu.

好的。布雷特，我想我們已經回答了你提出的所有三個問題。如果您有進一步的後續事宜，請再次給我發送電子郵件。讓我們回到正題上。接下來我們將——問題來自大和的 Rick Hsu。

Thank you for taking my questions. My questions is about your Q4 outlook. Can you give us more color about that because you were talking about your demand driver is coming from iPhone -- new iPhone launches which seems to me is back-end loaded. And you're talking about your -- another your demand driver is coming from 16-nanometer FinFET ramp up. That is also kind of a back-end loaded given the long cycle time. Can we fairly anticipate your Q4 total revenue would be better than Q3?

感謝您回答我的問題。我的問題是關於您對第四季度的展望。你能否向我們詳細介紹一下這方面的情況，因為你談到了你的需求驅動力來自 iPhone——新 iPhone 的發布，在我看來這是後端加載的。您正在談論的另一個需求驅動因素是來自 16 奈米 FinFET 的成長。考慮到較長的周期時間，這也是一種後端加載。我們能否合理地預期您第四季的總營收會好於第三季？

Well, we're not ready to forecast Q4 at this meeting. Now I think there was a related question that was pre-submitted. No, it wasn't pre-submitted. I saw it on a Taiwan newspaper today. The related question, I am ready to answer that. So let me just answer.

嗯，我們還沒準備好在這次會議上預測第四季的業績。現在我認為有一個預先提交的相關問題。不，它沒有預先提交。我今天在台灣報紙上看到了這個消息。關於相關問題，我準備回答。所以讓我來回答一下。

The related question appeared in the commercial daily. I think it was the Commercial Times, I think it was.

相關疑問請見諸商報。我認為是《商業時報》，我認為是的。

The question was with the inventory going down so slowly, what is the implication for the fourth quarter this year and first quarter next year. So you know I thought it was a pretty good question, so I got ready to answer that one. So maybe answering that one will also at least partially answer yours.

問題是庫存下降如此緩慢，這對今年第四季和明年第一季有何影響。所以你知道我認為這是一個很好的問題，所以我準備好回答它。因此，回答這個問題也許至少可以部分回答你的問題。

Clearly, the slowly decreasing inventory is not a very good omen for the fourth quarter. The inventory is being depleted more slowly than we expected. However -- however, the impact on the first quarter is an entirely different story. We do expect that the fourth quarter, by the end of the fourth quarter, the inventory will be back to the so-called seasonal level or even lower. And that bodes very well for the first quarter.

顯然，庫存緩慢下降對於第四季來說不是一個好兆頭。庫存消耗的速度比我們預期的要慢。然而，對第一季的影響則是完全不同的故事。我們確實預計，到第四季末，庫存將回到所謂的季節性水平，甚至更低。這對於第一季來說是一個好兆頭。

But still I, having said all that, I still repeat to you another thing I said. For the entire year we still think that we will have double-digit growth.

但是，儘管我說了這麼多，我還是要向你們重複我說過的另一件事。我們仍然認為全年將實現兩位數的成長。

Okay, thank you so much. My second question is about maybe in 2016 or 2017, how do you see the rise of the Samsung in-sourcing strategy.

好的，非常感謝。我的第二個問題是，也許在 2016 年或 2017 年，您如何看待三星內部採購策略的興起。

How do we see the what?

我們如何看待這個「什麼」？

The increase of the Samsung in-sourcing strategy.

三星內部採購策略的增加。

Samsung's using more of its internal products than go to foundry.

三星使用其內部生產的產品比使用代工廠生產的產品多。

It reduces the foundry market. We count that as non-foundry market.

它減少了代工市場。我們將其視為非代工市場。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Okay, all right. Now since several analysts have sent me questions, I need to read out the next one. And operator, please open the line for Mehdi Hosseini. Mehdi has two questions.

好的，好的。現在，由於有幾位分析師向我發送了問題，我需要讀出下一個問題。接線員，請接通 Mehdi Hosseini 的電話。梅迪有兩個問題。

One, how will consolidation among China-based smartphone OEMs impact TSMC's revenue CAGR of 10%? China smartphone OEMs consolidation impact TSMC's 10% CAGR.

一、中國智慧型手機OEM廠商的整合將如何影響台積電10%的營收複合年增長率？中國智慧型手機 OEM 廠商的整合影響了台積電 10% 的複合年增長率。

C.C., you're going to answer.

C.C.，你來回答。

China's OEM consolidation. Smartphone OEMs.

中國的OEM整合。智慧型手機 OEM。

Smartphone OEMs consolidation. I don't think any of us is really qualified to answer.

智慧型手機 OEM 整合。我認為我們中沒有人真正有資格回答這個問題。

Sorry Mehdi, we cannot answer. Second question.

抱歉，Mehdi，我們無法回答。第二個問題。

I think it gets to the consolidation of some of our customers' customers in China. I think that's what you ask.

我認為這涉及到我們在中國的一些客戶的整合。我想這就是你要問的。

Right.

正確的。

So it doesn't appear that we can answer that.

因此看起來我們無法回答這個問題。

Second question is still related to our CAGR of 10%. What are the key assumptions for wafer shipment and ASP trends in our revenue CAGR guide of 10%?

第二個問題仍然與我們的 10% 複合年增長率有關。在我們的 10% 營收複合年增長率指南中，對於晶圓出貨量和 ASP 趨勢的關鍵假設是什麼？

I don't know. All I want to do is to make at least 10%. And it's a bottom-up thing. It's not something that -- it's not top-down. Actually 99% of our plans and forecasts are bottom-up. And so when you say, what are the assumptions and so on, I have to talk to, ask 50 people what their assumptions are. And I just or I should say we, we just tend to trust them.

我不知道。我只想賺至少 10%。這是一個由下而上的事情。這不是—這不是自上而下的事情。實際上我們的 99% 計劃和預測都是自下而上的。因此，當您說假設是什麼等等時，我必須詢問 50 個人他們的假設是什麼。我只是，或者我應該說我們只是傾向於信任他們。

Actually on the whole, for years or maybe even decades on the whole they have done a really good job. They've done a much better job in forecasting or planning in this bottom-up way than any top-down kind of thing. Top-down you make assumptions and so on and your assumptions could be all wrong. Bottom-up, of course many people make assumptions.

實際上從總體上看，多年來，甚至幾十年來，他們都做得非常好。他們在自下而上進行預測或規劃方面做得比任何自上而下的方式都要好得多。自上而下，你做出假設等等，而你的假設可能完全是錯的。由下而上，當然許多人都會做出假設。

And I -- we, I will have to ask 50 people or maybe even 100 people and I certainly am not going to do that. But anyway it's -- that's our 10%, that 10% is the bottom-up kind of a forecast.

而且我——我們將不得不詢問 50 個人，甚至 100 個人，而我肯定不會這樣做。但無論如何——這是我們的 10%，這 10% 是自下而上的預測。

Okay. Since there are still quite a few questions posted online, I'm going to the next one online which is from Steven Pelayo at HSBC. Steven has a couple of questions. I'm just reading it out. Clarification of full-year guidance. You said full year to grow double digit. But you also recently said second half 2015 will be greater than first half.

好的。由於網路上仍然有很多問題，我將轉到下一個問題，該問題來自匯豐銀行的 Steven Pelayo。史蒂文有幾個問題。我只是讀一下。澄清全年指引。你說全年將成長兩位數。但您最近也說過，2015 年下半年的表現將優於上半年。

I said that -- I said that in June of -- June 9 something like that, shareholders meeting. Well, that forecast has become more marginal now.

我說過──我說過在六月──六月九日左右，股東大會。嗯，現在這個預測已經變得更邊緣化了。

Okay, so then.

好的，那就這樣吧。

So I said two things. Meaning first, the second half will be better than the first half. Second, the whole year will be double digit. The second part still holds, the first part, may still be true, but as I said has become more marginal now.

所以我說了兩件事。意思是首先，下半年會比上半年好。第二，全年達成兩位數。第二部分仍然成立，第一部分可能仍然正確，但正如我所說，現在變得更加邊緣化了。

Since Chairman has already answered this, so I will skip Steven's follow-up questions, which is all the minute details of that first half, second half thing. But then he indeed had a question about third quarter guidance. He said, 3Q guidance of 1% to 2% growth, what nodes will grow and which will decline or are all stable.

由於主席已經回答了這個問題，所以我將跳過史蒂文的後續問題，即上半場和下半場的所有細節。但隨後他確實對第三季的指引提出了疑問。他表示，3Q的指引是1%到2%的成長，哪些節點會成長，哪些會下降或都是穩定的。

Say it again.

再說一遍。

All right. He wants to have colors on third quarter node by node sequential growth.

好的。他希望第三季逐個節點連續成長的顏色。

For third quarter, node by node sequential growth.

對於第三季來說，節點逐年成長。

Growth or decline?

成長還是衰退？

Can we answer that Lora or C.C. or Mark? Or do you want to answer?

我們可以回答 Lora 或 C.C. 這個問題嗎？還是馬克？或者你想回答嗎？

Let me try. I will not answer node by node revenue growth, but I can give you some color on the segment growth. The third quarter we believe communication will come down, computer will go up, consumer will go up and industrial and others will go up.

讓我試試。我不會回答每個節點的收入成長情況，但我可以給你一些關於分段成長的詳細資訊。我們認為第三季通訊產業將下降，電腦產業將上升，消費產業將上升，工業和其他產業將上升。

So, okay, with that, let`s come back to the floor. Michael Chou from Deutsche Bank has follow up questions and then afterwards we'll go to JPMorgan.

好的，讓我們回到正題上。德意志銀行的 Michael Chou 將回答後續問題，然後我們將採訪摩根大通。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Michael is with Deutsche Bank? Were you the one that asked that I thought I said was a pretty smart question, in the commercial --

麥可在德意志銀行工作嗎？是你問的那個我認為非常聰明的問題嗎？在廣告中——

In 10 nanometer actually given what would seem 16 nanometer for your market share, do you think your first year in 10 nanometer --

在 10 奈米製程中，考慮到你們的市佔率似乎在 16 奈米，你認為你們在 10 奈米製程的第一年——

You didn't answer my question. Were you the one that asked that question about how the inventory decrease will impact, were you the one? No? Randy? I thought it was Deutsche Bank. Randy, you're not Deutsche Bank are you? Okay, never mind, you ask your question then.

你沒有回答我的問題。您是否問過庫存減少會產生什麼影響？是嗎？不？蘭迪？我以為是德意志銀行。蘭迪，你不是德意志銀行的吧？好的，沒關係，那你問問題。

Okay. Do you expect your 10 nanometer market share in the first year will be quite dominant?

好的。您是否預計第一年您的 10 奈米市場份額將佔據主導地位？

What's that?

那是什麼？

Your 10-nanometer market share in the first year.

您第一年的10奈米市佔率。

10 nanometer?

10奈米？

Market share in the first year going forward will be quite big. Given what we've seen in 16 nanometer --

未來第一年的市佔率將會相當大。鑑於我們在 16 奈米技術方面所取得的進展——

What will 10-nanometer market share be?

10奈米的市佔率將會是多少？

Yes. For the first year.

是的。第一年。

Do you want to answer that? Well actually the answer is, we don't know. For first year, 10 nanometer will be, really first year will be year after next, all right, 2017. I mean we'll start end of next year, start means you know, not very many wafers. And 2017 it will become quite significant. All right, I will try to answer you. I think it will be bigger than the first year 16 nanometer market share.

你想回答這個問題嗎？事實上，答案是，我們不知道。對第一年來說，10奈米將是，真正的第一年將是後年，也就是 2017 年。我的意思是我們將於明年年底開始，這意味著晶圓的數量不會很多。2017年，這項變化將變得十分重要。好的，我會盡力回答你。我認為它將比第一年16奈米的市場份額更大。

That's a very safe one. Okay, now we're going to JPMorgan, Gokul Hariharan.

這是非常安全的。好的，現在我們要去摩根大通，Gokul Hariharan。

Yes, thank you. Dr. Chang, just wanted to get your updated view on what you think about locating a 12-inch fab in China given that China semiconductor ecosystem seems to be developing very quickly. Any updates or any new thoughts on also what's happening in terms of the Chinese semiconductor ecosystem build-out.

是的，謝謝。張博士，鑑於中國半導體生態系統似乎正在快速發展，我只是想聽聽您對在中國設立 12 吋晶圓廠的最新看法。關於中國半導體生態系統建設還有什麼最新消息或新想法嗎？

All right, Gokul's question is, can we talk about whether we have a plan to build a 12-inch wafer fab in China? Can we comment on our competitors building out ecosystems in China?

好的，Gokul的問題是，我們可以談談我們是否有計劃在中國建造12吋晶圓廠嗎？我們能否評論一下我們的競爭對手在中國建立的生態系統？

We are only considering it and we have no comment on the competitors doing it.

我們只是在考慮這一點，對於競爭對手的做法我們不予置評。

Okay. A follow-up on the new areas of growth that you mentioned like IoT, automotive, industrial going from next year onwards. There is a perception that a lot of that growth could be happening in mature nodes and not so much in advanced nodes. Could you address what areas would that growth be coming from because in the past a lot of the new markets have been demanding advanced processes rather than the mature processes.

好的。您提到的新的成長領域，如物聯網、汽車、工業，將從明年開始出現。人們認為，許多成長可能發生在成熟節點，而不是高階節點。您能否談談這種成長來自哪些領域，因為過去許多新市場一直要求先進製程而不是成熟製程。

All right, so Gokul's second question is with respect to the new growth area, since we have mentioned the new growth area of IoTs, automobiles, industrial, he thought that these are all more related to the mature nodes and not necessarily the leading edge advanced nodes. So he liked to have us --

好的，Gokul 的第二個問題是關於新成長領域，既然我們提到了物聯網、汽車、工業的新成長領域，他認為這些都與成熟節點更相關，而不一定是前沿的先進節點。所以他喜歡我們——

I missed the last few words.

我錯過了最後幾個字。

The -- those applications tend to use only the mature node and not the advanced nodes. So what will be the growth opportunities that would probably use the advanced nodes, right?

這些應用程式傾向於僅使用成熟節點而不是高階節點。那麼，可能使用高階節點的成長機會是什麼呢？

As long as there is a new application it's growth, I mean yes, they use mature nodes, but generally, they don't use just the mature equipment. We have to upgrade the equipment. We have to make couple of investments. In fact, we have all along been making considerable capital investments in the mature nodes, in some years more than other years. I think we have been telling you most years how much of our capital CapEx is in the leading nodes and so on. And there is a pretty significant portion that's not leading edge. Those are mature nodes. And usually there is considerable investment, additional investment we need to make to adapt to the equipment to -- it's not really changing the equipment, it's buying new equipment in order to do the specialty IoT kind of products. So even if it's a mature node, it means growth.

只要有新的應用，它就會成長，我的意思是，是的，他們使用成熟的節點，但一般來說，他們不會只使用成熟的設備。我們必須升級設備。我們必須進行一些投資。事實上，我們一直在成熟節點上進行大量的資本投入，有些年份的投入甚至更多。我想我們大多數年份都在告訴你，我們的資本支出中有多少是在領先節點等等。其中很大一部分並不是最前衛的。那些是成熟的節點。通常我們需要進行大量投資，額外投資來適應設備——這並不是真正改變設備，而是購買新設備以生產專業的物聯網產品。所以即使它是一個成熟的節點，它也意味著成長。

Okay, I think Donald Lu sent over some follow-up questions. I will read it out right here. Donald's question, do you still think that global foundry, I mean it's not that company in New York, it's worldwide foundry 14 nanometer and 16 nanometer capacity is rational, i.e. whether or not the world's overall 14 and 16 nanometer capacity will that be rational?

好的，我想唐納德·盧發送了一些後續問題。我就在這裡讀一遍。Donald的問題是，您是否仍然認為全球代工廠，我的意思是它不是紐約的那家公司，它在全球範圍內的代工廠14奈米和16奈米產能是合理的。全球整體14、16奈米產能是否合理？

Second question, does TSMC still expect its smartphone content to increase year-over-year in 2015 and 2016?

第二個問題，台積電是否仍預期2015年及2016年其智慧型手機產能將較去年同期成長？

First question?

第一個問題？

Whether the total capacity will be rational? Whether they will be rational?

產能總量是否合理？他們是否會理性？

The 16 nanometer?

16奈米？

Yes.

是的。

I think the 16 nanometer global capacity will be rational. And the second question, well look, there aren't many companies in the 16 nanometer. So where there are just a few players, I expect the capacity to be more rational than if they are lot of players. And another thing is it's very expensive, well, anyway more expensive than the 10 and a lot more expensive than the -- oh no no, more so than the 20. And they are a lot more expensive than the 28 on top of the 16 now. So those two reasons, few players and very expensive capacity, make me think that the 16 capacity will be rational. And the second question?

我認為16奈米的全球產能將是合理的。第二個問題，你看，16奈米領域的公司不多。因此，我預計，當只有少數玩家時，其容量會比有很多玩家時更合理。而且另一件事是它非常昂貴，嗯，無論如何比 10 貴，而且比 — — 哦不不，比 20 貴很多。而且現在它們的價格比 28 比 16 貴很多。所以這兩個原因，玩家少和容量非常昂貴，讓我認為 16 個容量是合理的。第二個問題呢？

Do we expect the smartphone content to increase for us?

我們是否期待智慧型手機的內容能為我們帶來更多改變？

The answer is yes. And do you have a more quantitative answer? You do? Well, good.

答案是肯定的。您有更量化的答案嗎？你做？嗯，很好。

The overall content for the smartphone for us will increase next year versus this year in general slightly, but especially on the high end --

明年，我們智慧型手機的整體內容將比今年略有增加，尤其是在高階市場——

I think he means how many dollars we have --

我認為他的意思是我們有多少錢——

Yes, that's what I am talking about. Especially high end smartphone, we expect the content dollars will go up by $1 next year from this year.

是的，這就是我所說的。特別是高階智慧型手機，我們預計明年的內容費用將比今年增加 1 美元。

And mid to lower end also?

還有中低階嗎？

Yes, mid, low-end also increase slightly.

是的，中端、低端也略有增加。

Integrated. Our TSMC dollars in it.

融合的。我們的台積電的美元在裡面。

Okay, now we are coming back to the floor. This question will be coming from Dan Heyler, Bank of America.

好的，現在我們回到討論現場。這個問題來自美國銀行的 Dan Heyler。

Just a quick follow-up on Lora's numbers there, could you remind us from what -- you said $1, so what's the absolute number for 2016 in terms of content at the high end and the middle to low end?

我只是想快速跟進 Lora 的數字，您能否提醒我們一下——您說的是 1 美元，那麼就高端和中低端內容而言，2016 年的絕對數字是多少？

Okay for high end the dollar will be from $18.7 to $19.7 for TSMC.

好的，對於台積電來說，高端價格將從18.7美元到19.7美元。

Right. Okay. And then on the market share opportunities that you highlighted in mobile, Dr. Chang, you mentioned that next year within the mobile market you anticipate the potential to increase share. Does that require significant share gains across kind of -- will that be share gains across all the customers or do you anticipate some share loss at say one of the major customers in those assumptions, because it looks as though competition is actually increasing in mobile, so I wanted to get more color.

正確的。好的。然後關於您在行動領域強調的市場份額機會，張博士，您提到，您預計明年行動市場的份額將有增加的潛力。這是否需要在所有客戶中獲得顯著的份額增長——這是否意味著所有客戶的份額增長，或者您是否預計在這些假設中某個主要客戶會遭受一些份額損失，因為看起來移動領域的競爭實際上正在加劇，所以我想獲得更多的細節。

Share gain, well, every customer, well, that is -- that can only be dreamed of. There are always some share gains, some share losses, but on the whole I expect a share gain.

分享收益，嗯，每個顧客，嗯，那是──那隻能是夢想。總是會有一些股價上漲，也總是會有一些股價下跌，但整體而言，我預期股價會上漲。

Follow-up question from Credit Suisse, Randy Abrams.

瑞士信貸的蘭迪艾布拉姆斯（Randy Abrams）的後續問題。

I just wanted to follow up on last quarter you mentioned FinFET would be better than your prior plan, implying like low teens growth by fourth quarter. Could you give an update on the pace of that, like if you'll get some revenue in third quarter and you still expect over 10% fourth quarter and the 20 node in the second quarter got close to 20%, so if we could get toward that by first half next year?

我只是想跟進上個季度您提到的 FinFET 會比您之前的計劃，這意味著第四季度的成長率將達到 10% 以下。您能否更新一下這一進展速度，例如您是否會在第三季度獲得一些收入，並且您仍預計第四季度的收入將超過 10%，而第二季度的 20 個節點接近 20%，那麼我們是否可以在明年上半年實現這一目標？

Will you repeat the question?

您能重複一下這個問題嗎？

Sorry, I was busy with my BlackBerry.

抱歉，我正忙著玩黑莓手機。

Okay, so I was just asking if FinFET, if you still expect to have some revenue in third quarter over 10% in fourth quarter and then to match 20 to get about 20% of sales by first half.

好的，所以我只是想問 FinFET，您是否仍預計第三季度的收入會比第四季度增長 10% 以上，然後達到 20%，即上半年銷售額的 20% 左右。

Do I expect in the third quarter 10% did you say?

您說我預計第三季的成長率是 10% 嗎？

In third quarter to get revenue and then fourth quarter 10% or more revenue and then first half that start approaching 20%.

第三季獲得收入，第四季獲得10％或更多的收入，然後上半年開始接近20％。

I don't think I said anything about 10%.

我認為我沒有說過有關 10% 的事情。

That's right.

這是正確的。

I said 10% by the whole year.

我說的是全年10%。

I think last conference the comment was --

我認為上次會議上的評論是——

Randy, I think we remember, last conference one analyst was saying that he predict we will get 12% revenue from 16 nanometer in the fourth quarter. But the management did not agree to that number. The management did not accept that 12% number.

蘭迪，我想我們記得，上次會議上，一位分析師說，他預測我們將在第四季度從 16 奈米技術中獲得 12% 的收入。但管理層不同意這個數字。管理層不接受12%這個數字。

Okay.

好的。

That was last time.

那是上次了。

Was that your question?

這是你的問題嗎？

Yes my question was if you could comment how it will grow as a percent of sales over the next couple of quarters?

是的，我的問題是，您能否評論一下未來幾季其銷售額的百分比將如何成長？

How would the 16 nanometer grow as a percent of our revenue in the next few quarters?

在接下來的幾個季度中，16奈米技術在我們的收入中所佔的百分比會如何成長？

Want to talk about that? Well, do you want to talk about -- I know that we don't want to talk about fourth quarter, but do you want to talk about third quarter?

想討論這個嗎？那麼，你想談談——我知道我們不想談論第四季度，但你想談談第三季度嗎？

Third quarter will be very small single-digit revenue contribution.

第三季的營收貢獻將是非常小的個位數。

16 nanometer, it's very little.

16奈米，非常小。

Okay.

好的。

I mean we started ramping when? Three months, four months ago, last month. And the process cycle is very long, Randy.

我的意思是我們什麼時候開始增加？三個月前，四個月前，上個月。而且這個過程週期很長，蘭迪。

Okay.

好的。

It's months before we get the first finished wafer out. And some customers want us to do the bumping and all that stuff, and that takes longer and so it's a long time between first starting to ramp and the time you get even the first wafer out. So third quarter will be very little.

我們花了幾個月的時間才生產出第一塊成品晶圓。有些客戶希望我們進行凸塊化和所有那些工作，而這需要更長的時間，因此從開始量產到生產第一片晶圓需要很長的時間。因此第三季的數量會很少。

Okay. It sounds like you don't want to mention on fourth quarter. I guess the other question I was going to ask on structural profitability where you were talking in the prepared remarks, do you still expect structural profitability to be in line to better, like you've kind of maintained that track record the last few years, if as you look out over next 12 months, you still have that trajectory?

好的。聽起來你不想提及第四季。我想我要問的另一個問題是您在準備好的發言中談到的結構性盈利能力，您是否仍預計結構性盈利能力將達到更好的水平，就像您在過去幾年中一直保持的那種記錄一樣，如果您展望未來 12 個月，您仍然會保持這樣的軌跡嗎？

Yes, the answer is yes.

是的，答案是肯定的。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Good, all right. There is a question coming to my BlackBerry from Arete's analyst Jaguar Bajwa. His question is this, how does the strategy of quicker node transitions and the reuse of tools as we have seen in 20 nanometer to 16 nanometer affect the depreciation for new process nodes? And does this tool transition allow you to offer better ASPs to your customers? So quicker nodes transition, reuse of tools, whether this translates to better ASP to customers and how that affects depreciation?

好，好的。Arete 的分析師 Jaguar Bajwa 向我的黑莓手機提出了一個問題。他的問題是，正如我們在 20 奈米到 16 奈米中所看到的，更快的節點轉換和工具重用的策略如何影響新製程節點的折舊？這種工具轉換是否能讓您為客戶提供更好的 ASP？那麼更快的節點轉換、工具的重複使用是否意味著為客戶提供更好的 ASP，以及這會如何影響折舊？

Well, I can answer in a very general manner. That is something making one generation's tools compatible with the next generation or vice versa. That has been a prime effort of TSMC R&D and TSMC operations in the last three or four years. That of course started because the complexity of the process has increased and because we have adopted the faster cadence of the technology.

嗯，我可以用非常籠統的方式來回答。這使得一代人的工具與下一代的工具相容，反之亦然。這是過去三、四年來台積電研發和營運的主要努力。這當然是因為流程的複雜性增加了，而且我們採用了更快的技術節奏。

Now I think the prime effort that this very big focus on reducing what we call internally, we call it the conversion loss. Our effort in reducing the conversion loss has borne a lot of fruit. And now in the ideal case, all the tools are compatible, but that's impossible now because when you advance, go from 16 to 10, you do need new equipment that's even now still being developed by our equipment partners such as supply, materials and so on. However we have been able to reduce the conversion loss to a very low level now. And I think from that you can start calculating depreciation and what not. You want to add anything to what I said?

現在我認為最主要的努力就是集中精力減少我們內部所說的轉換損失。我們在減少轉換損失方面的努力已經取得了豐碩成果。現在，理想情況下，所有工具都是相容的，但現在不可能，因為當你從 16 個工具進步到 10 個工具時，你確實需要新的設備，而這些設備現在仍由我們的設備合作夥伴開發，例如供應、材料等等。然而，我們現在已經能夠將轉換損失降低到非常低的水平。我認為從那時開始您就可以開始計算折舊等等。你想對我所說的內容進行補充嗎？

I can add some comments on this equipment migrations, just like Chairman said, the operation and R&D people made a tremendous effort trying to increase the migration rate. As far as we can see now from 20 to 16, 16 to 10, we can manage migration more than 95% of the tool can be reusable.

對於這次設備遷移，我可以補充一些意見，就像董事長說的，營運和研發人員為了提高遷移率，付出了極大的努力。據我們現在所知，從 20 到 16，從 16 到 10，我們可以管理遷移，95％ 以上的工具可以重複使用。

Okay, now there is another follow-up question sent over by Steven Pelayo at HSBC and his question is this. Since TSMC learned a lot at 20 nanometer, will a steeper ramp of 16 nanometers this year not impact gross margin too much, i.e. not much of a dilution or perhaps the faster learning will allow for higher starting 16 nanometer gross margin compared to 20 nanometer, whether 16 nanometer gross margin will be higher than 20 nanometers at the starting stage.

好的，現在匯豐銀行的 Steven Pelayo 發來另一個後續問題，他的問題是這樣的。由於台積電在 20 奈米技術上學到了很多東西，今年 16 奈米技術的更大幅度提升不會對毛利率產生太大影響嗎？或許是因為稀釋程度不大，又或許是因為學習速度更快，使得 16 奈米的起始毛利率高於 20 奈米，所以在起步階段 16 奈米的毛利率是否會高於 20 奈米。

Yes, I think the answer is, we have learned a lot from 20 nanometer to benefit 16 nanometer and therefore as a result we expect 16 to be more profitable than 20 and we expect the yield learning curve to actually be a part of the 2016 total learning curve from -- and I think that's actually one of the advantages of a faster cadence.

是的，我認為答案是，我們從 20 奈米學到了很多東西，可以為 16 奈米帶來好處，因此我們預計 16 奈米的利潤會比 20 奈米更高，而且我們預計良率學習曲線實際上會成為 2016 年總學習曲線的一部分——我認為這實際上是更快節奏的優勢之一。

Okay, now we come back to the floor. The question will be coming from UBS, Eric Chen.

好的，現在我們回到討論話題。這題來自瑞銀的 Eric Chen。

Okay, thank you, my question, I probably have just one question and go to Dr. Wei. You talk about a 28-nanometer process and then you talk about HPC. And I would like to get a rough idea for your 28 nanometer process business, how many percent go through the HPC and how about HPC+ and going forward, what kind of expectation we should keep.

好的，謝謝，我的問題，我可能只有一個問題，去找魏博士。您談到了 28 奈米工藝，然後談到了 HPC。我想大致了解你們的 28 奈米製程業務，有多少百分比經過 HPC，HPC+ 怎麼樣，未來我們應該保持什麼樣的期望。

Chairman, I can answer. Actually I cannot give you the exact number, but I can give you the taste on the tape-out. Our 28 nanometers tape-out right now is higher than any quarter previously we announced and most of the tape-out are in 28 HPC and HPC+, so that gives you a hint of future business what is the percentages is there going to be.

主席，我可以回答。實際上我無法給你確切的數字，但我可以告訴你流片時的感受。我們目前的 28 奈米流片量高於我們之前宣布的任何一個季度，而且大多數流片都是在 28 HPC 和 HPC+ 中進行的，因此這可以提示未來業務的百分比是多少。

Okay, got it. So I don't get it, I mean for the HPC spending is lower than average of a 28 nanometer process business and given Lora just mentioned, for your low-end smartphone IC content value will increase slightly. It doesn't match if HPC revenue keeps increase, I assume the low end smartphone IC content value should decline. Thank you.

好的，明白了。所以我不明白，我的意思是 HPC 支出低於 28 奈米製程業務的平均水平，鑑於 Lora 剛才提到的，低階智慧型手機 IC 內容價值將略有增加。不匹配的是，如果HPC收入持續增加，我認為低階智慧型手機IC內容價值應該會下降。謝謝。

Let me be more precise on the content. I was talking about the high-end smartphone. TSMC's revenue will go up. Actually the number is, this year is $17.80, next year $19.7, so it's $2 up, that's the high end. The mid-end, $6 this year, $6.4 next year, slightly up. The low-end keep the same, $3.40 and next year will be the same.

讓我更精確地說明一下內容。我談論的是高階智慧型手機。台積電的營收將會上升。實際數字是，今年是 17.80 美元，明年是 19.7 美元，所以上漲了 2 美元，這是最高價。中階方面，今年6美元，明年6.4美元，略有上漲。低端保持不變，為 3.40 美元，明年也將保持不變。

Okay, so that's good. And even other HPC the percentage will increase but will still keep at the low end, probably at the low end the ASP, right?

好的，那就好了。即使其他 HPC，其百分比也會增加，但仍將保持在低端，可能處於 ASP 的低端，對嗎？

Actually it's not only the smartphone using the HPC or HPC+, it's the second wave a lot of other products, they are using HPC and HPC+.

實際上，不僅智慧型手機使用 HPC 或 HPC+，第二波許多其他產品也在使用 HPC 和 HPC+。

Got it, so we worry about the other foundry makers say the second tier foundry maker, they are more aggressive their wafer prices strategy at the 28-nanometer process, we would like to keep the overall the blended ASP.

明白了，所以我們擔心其他代工廠商，例如二線代工廠商，他們在 28 奈米製程上的晶圓價格策略更為積極，我們希望保持整體混合 ASP。

Well, Eric, maybe I can do a little bit clarification here. When Lora talk about mid-end, low-end smartphone content, it is not just from one geometry, it has many silicons inside and that's an average price. HPC or HPC+ is only adopted by certain applications in those boxes and they are not the whole thing.

好吧，埃里克，也許我可以在這裡做一點澄清。當 Lora 談論中階、低階智慧型手機內容時，它不僅僅來自一種幾何形狀，它裡面有許多矽片，這是一個平均價格。HPC 或 HPC+ 僅適用於這些盒子中的某些應用程序，它們並不是全部。

So that's more like product mix from 40 to 28 nanometer.

所以這更像是從 40 到 28 奈米的產品組合。

The overall silicon content of the smartphones doesn't matter it's a low end or mid end or high end, those contents are increasing because of complexity and functionality.

智慧型手機的整體矽含量並不重要，它是低階、中端還是高端，這些含量由於複雜性和功能性而不斷增加。

Or at least ours.

或至少是我們的。

Ours is increasing.

我們的數字還在增加。

Content is increasing yes.

是的，內容正在增加。

Thank you very much Lora, Dr. Wei, and Dr. Sun.

非常感謝Lora、魏博士和孫博士。

Thank you. So I think it's about time that we should end our conference here and thank you very much for coming over. Before we conclude the conference, please be advised that the replay will be accessible within three hours from now, transcript will be available 24 hours from now. And those are all available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. So thank you for coming. Hope to join us again next quarter.

謝謝。所以我想我們應該結束這裡的會議了，非常感謝你們的到來。在我們結束會議之前，請注意，重播將在三小時內提供，文字記錄將在 24 小時後提供。所有這些都可以透過台積電的網站 www.tsmc.com 取得。感謝您的到來。希望下個季度能再次加入我們。