(RYAAY) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Ryanair Holdings plc Q1 FY '24 Earnings Release Call. My name is Maxine, and I'll be coordinating the call today. (Operator Instructions) I will now hand over to your host, Michael O'Leary, Group CEO, to begin. Michael, please go ahead with you are ready.

歡迎參加 Ryanair Holdings plc '24 財年第一季度收益發布電話會議。我叫瑪克辛，今天我將負責協調通話。 （操作員指示）我現在請主持人、集團首席執行官邁克爾·奧利裡 (Michael O'Leary) 開始發言。邁克爾，請繼續，你已經準備好了。

Okay. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. You're welcome to the Q1 results conference call. As usual, this morning, we posted the results release, an extensive MD&A and a video Q&A with myself and Neil Sorahan and that went up on the ryanair.com website at 7:00 this morning. So I refer you to that, and I'll take it as read.

好的。早上好，女士們，先生們。歡迎您參加第一季度業績電話會議。像往常一樣，今天早上，我們發布了業績發布、廣泛的 MD&A 以及我和 Neil Sorahan 的視頻問答，並於今天早上 7:00 在 ryanair.com 網站上發布。所以我建議你參考一下，我會把它當作已讀過的。

I'll give you a couple of comments on the results and a few thoughts, and then we'll open it up -- I'll ask Neil just to give him a couple of comments on the MD&A and then we'll open up for Q&A.

我會給你一些關於結果的評論和一些想法，然後我們將開始討論——我會請 Neil 給他一些關於 MD&A 的評論，然後我們將開始問答。

So you've seen this morning, we reported a Q1 profit of EUR 663 million. The number is materially distorted because of -- it's compared to Ukraine affected prior year Q1 PAT of EUR 170 million last year. Last year, you'll all recollect Russia invaded Ukraine on the 24th of February, it caused a significant collapse in traffic through March and into Easter. And it also meant if you recollect, we aggressively dumped prices in the Q1 of last year. Prices we reported this time last year, average prices this time last year were down 4% on pre-COVID, as we were aggressively kind of trying to restore load factors through Q1 so that we could kind of underpin Q2.

今天早上您已經看到，我們公佈的第一季度利潤為 6.63 億歐元。該數字嚴重扭曲，因為與烏克蘭去年第一季度稅後利潤 1.7 億歐元的影響相比。去年，你們都記得俄羅斯於 2 月 24 日入侵烏克蘭，導致 3 月和復活節期間的交通嚴重崩潰。如果你還記得的話，這也意味著我們在去年第一季度大幅降價。我們去年這個時候報告的價格，去年這個時候的平均價格比新冠疫情爆發前下降了 4%，因為我們積極嘗試在第一季度恢復負載率，以便為第二季度提供支撐。

And I think that's important, and it's something I want to stress a couple of times today. So we had a very -- we very aggressively dumped prices in Q1 last year. And so the kind of the growth of EUR 170 million to EUR 663 million is a function of the very weak prior year comps. This year's Q1 was helped by a very strong Easter, strong demand, good pricing. We had a second U.K. bank holiday in May, so we were the beneficiary of that.

我認為這很重要，今天我想多次強調這一點。所以我們去年第一季度非常積極地拋售價格。因此，1.7 億歐元增長至 6.63 億歐元是上一年比較疲弱的結果。今年第一季度得益於強勁的複活節、強勁的需求和良好的定價。五月份我們迎來了第二個英國銀行假期，所以我們是其中的受益者。

So over the quarter 1, traffic rose 11% to 50 million passengers. Revenue per passenger was up 27%, as again, that kind of average fares were up 42% but that's distorted by the fact that average fares were down 4% in the prior year Q1. Ancillary revenues were up 4% on a per passenger basis.

因此，第一季度的客運量增長了 11%，達到 5000 萬人次。每名乘客的收入增長了 27%，平均票價再次上漲了 42%，但上年第一季度平均票價下降了 4%，這一事實扭曲了這一情況。按每位乘客計算，輔助收入增長了 4%。

We took -- at the end of the quarter, we're operating 119 Boeing 737-8200 Gamechangers. The total fleet in June was 558 aircraft, we've opened 3 new bases and 190 new routes for the summer '23, 3 new bases in Belfast, Lanzarote, and Tenerife all of them performing well. We've extended our fuel hedging. We're 75% hedged for FY '24 at $89 per barrel, a little bit above current spot rates. We're 27% hedged for FY '25 at $74 a barrel if we were able or willing to extend that hedge, if we could hedge all of FY '25 at $74 a barrel, that would be a saving of almost EUR 1 billion into next year's earnings FY '25 earnings.

截至本季度末，我們運營著 119 架波音 737-8200 遊戲規則改變者。 6月份機隊總數為558架飛機，我們在23年夏季開設了3個新基地和190條新航線，貝爾法斯特、蘭薩羅特島和特內里費島的3個新基地均表現良好。我們擴大了燃料對沖。我們對 24 財年 75% 的對沖價格為每桶 89 美元，略高於當前現貨價格。如果我們能夠或願意擴大這種對沖，如果我們能夠以每桶 74 美元對沖 25 財年的 27%，如果我們能夠以每桶 74 美元的價格對沖 25 財年的全部，那麼明年的 25 財年收益將節省近 10 億歐元。

Net cash at the quarter end was strong at just under EUR 1 billion, up from the EUR 0.5 billion at 31st of March and again, thanks to the excellent work that Neil and the team have been doing, our rating has been upgraded by both Standard & Poor's and Fitch to -- from BBB to BBB+. The big development in the quarter was obviously the 300 MAX 10 aircraft order, which we signed with Boeing in May. This order gives us a decade of further growth in Europe in a marketplace where capacity is constrained. The industry is consolidating, Ryanair has access to another 400 very low-cost aircraft. Another 100 MAX are Gamechangers and then 300 MAX 10s which will enable us to renew the fleet, but also grow traffic at a more controlled rate of 300 million passengers by FY '34.

本季度末的淨現金強勁，略低於 10 億歐元，高於 3 月 31 日的 5 億歐元，而且，由於 Neil 和團隊所做的出色工作，標準普爾和惠譽將我們的評級從 BBB 上調至 BBB+。本季度的重大進展顯然是我們 5 月份與波音公司簽署的 300 架 MAX 10 飛機訂單。這份訂單讓我們在歐洲這個容量有限的市場上獲得了十年的進一步增長。該行業正在整合，瑞安航空又獲得了 400 架超低成本飛機。另外 100 架 MAX 是遊戲規則改變者，然後是 300 架 MAX 10，這將使我們能夠更新機隊，同時還能以更可控的速度增加客流量，到 34 財年將載客量增加到 3 億人次。

Just in terms of growth, again, I think we and the rest of our competitors continue to be a beneficiary of structural EU capacity reductions following COVID. There was numerous EU airline failures or fleet reductions during COVID. We continued this summer to see volatile oil prices and higher interest rates, which is discouraging weaker unhedged airlines from adding capacity. There is a shortage of aircraft, both new and lease that I think will run on until the end of this decade out to 2030. This summer in Europe, there's no doubt we're seeing the benefit of a very strong influx of American visitors to Europe helped by the strong dollar. We're starting to see a meaningful return of Asian traffic to Europe, which means that European short-haul capacity remains constrained, but demand is high.

就增長而言，我認為我們和其他競爭對手仍然是新冠疫情后歐盟結構性產能削減的受益者。新冠疫情期間，歐盟航空公司出現大量倒閉或機隊縮減。今年夏天，我們繼續看到油價波動和利率上升，這阻礙了未對沖的實力較弱的航空公司增加運力。我認為飛機短缺，無論是新飛機還是租賃飛機，都將持續到本十年末到 2030 年。今年夏天，在歐洲，毫無疑問，我們看到了在強勢美元的幫助下，美國遊客大量湧入歐洲所帶來的好處。我們開始看到亞洲客運量顯著回歸歐洲，這意味著歐洲短途運力仍然受到限制，但需求很高。

And so through H1 this year, we're seeing strong demand load factors high, airfares, which were very strong in Q1. They would be modestly up in Q2, but not by what we had and what we saw in Q1. Remember, Q2 last year, we had a very strong Q2. We reported after -- profit after tax in Q2 last year of EUR 1.2 billion. And we expect average fares will be up, but it will be a small double-digit percent, something in the mid-teens.

因此，今年上半年，我們看到強勁的需求載客率很高，機票價格在第一季度非常強勁。他們在第二季度的表現將略有上升，但與我們在第一季度所擁有的和所看到的相比有所不同。請記住，去年第二季度我們的第二季度非常強勁。我們去年第二季度的稅後利潤為 12 億歐元。我們預計平均票價將會上漲，但幅度會小幅兩位數，大約在十幾歲左右。

European airlines will continue to consolidate over the next 2 or 3 years. Lufthansa are moving to take over in Italy. The sale of TAP in Portugal is now actively underway. There's a large backlog of aircraft manufacturer OEM aircraft delivery. And we believe that's going to continue to constrain capacity growth in Europe for at least the next 3 or 4 years and will assist us as we continue to expand our fleet, I think will mean we'll see growth with strong traffic demand. And I would hope to see modest fare rises over the next 2 or 3 years. But I suspect they'll be modest compared to the very strong pricing we saw in Q1.

歐洲航空公司將在未來兩三年內繼續整合。漢莎航空即將接管意大利業務。 TAP 在葡萄牙的銷售目前正在積極進行中。飛機製造商 OEM 飛機交付積壓大量。我們相信，至少在未來三四年內，這將繼續限制歐洲的運力增長，並將有助於我們繼續擴大機隊規模，我認為這意味著我們將看到強勁的交通需求帶來的增長。我希望在未來兩三年內看到票價適度上漲。但我懷疑與我們在第一季度看到的非常強勁的定價相比，它們會比較溫和。

The critical thing here is in Ryanair, our unit cost advantage over all EU competitors are fuel hedging, our strong balance sheet and our low-cost aircraft orders, which now will run out to 2020 -- 2033, a decade, coupled with our industry-leading operational resilience will create very significant growth opportunities, and I think there will be profitable growth opportunities for Ryanair over the coming years as we grow to 300 million passengers by FY '34.

這里關鍵的是瑞安航空，我們相對於所有歐盟競爭對手的單位成本優勢是燃油對沖、我們強大的資產負債表和低成本飛機訂單，這些訂單現在將持續到 2020 年至 2033 年，這十年，加上我們行業領先的運營彈性將創造非常重大的增長機會，我認為隨著我們到 34 財年增長到 3 億乘客，瑞安航空在未來幾年將有盈利增長機會。

In terms of fleet, the Gamechanger fleet stood at 119 aircraft at the quarter end. It will rise to 124 at the end of July. We've already taken the first 4 of those July deliveries. Boeing hope to deliver the last aircraft either on the -- we think Friday, the 27th or Monday, the 31st of July, so we will just have all 51 aircraft in for the peak August travel period.

就機隊而言，截至季度末，Gamechanger 機隊數量為 119 架飛機。到7月底將增至124個。我們已經收到了 7 月份交付的前 4 批貨物。波音希望在 7 月 27 日星期五或 7 月 31 日星期一交付最後一架飛機，因此我們將在 8 月旅行高峰期交付所有 51 架飛機。

Boeing has suffered multiple supply chain challenges, which has caused repeated delivery delays. We had hoped to be out of these at the end of July. But already, we're seeing, they've notified us of delivery delays in the autumn deliveries, which have been hit by the strike in Spirits in Wichita, the collapse of the bridge over the Yellowstone River. We already have agreed to Boeing that some deliveries will be delayed. Our last delivery for FY '24 -- for summer '24, which were to have been in April '24 will now be delayed to June 2024. But hopefully, we can take all those aircraft by the end of June '24 and therefore, benefit with that continuing growth through the peak months of July and August.

波音公司遭遇多重供應鏈挑戰，導致交付屢次延誤。我們原本希望在七月底擺脫這些。但我們已經看到，他們已經通知我們秋季交貨的交貨延誤，這是受到威奇托烈酒公司罷工和黃石河大橋倒塌的影響。我們已經同意波音公司推遲部分交付。我們在 24 財年——24 財年夏季的最後一次交付，原定於 24 年 4 月交付，現在將推遲到 2024 年 6 月。但希望我們能夠在 24 年 6 月底之前接收所有這些飛機，因此，我們將受益於 7 月和 8 月高峰期的持續增長。

In May, we signed the order with Boeing to purchase 300 Boeing MAX 10 aircraft. These aircraft are astonishingly efficient. The order is subject to shareholder approval at our September AGM, but these aircraft offer us 39 more seats at 228 seats first 189 on the 737 NG fleet, but delivered 20% lower fuel consumption, 20% less CO2 emissions and they're 50% quieter. These aircraft will transform Ryanair's operating cost, will further widen our already considerable unit cost advantage over all competitor airlines in Europe and will materially, I think, incent -- will materially improve our growth for the next decade.

5月，我們與波音公司簽署採購300架波音MAX 10飛機的訂單。這些飛機的效率驚人。該訂單需要在 9 月份的年度股東大會上獲得股東批准，但這些飛機為我們提供了 737 NG 機隊中 39 個座位（前 228 個座位，前 189 個座位）的座位數，但燃油消耗降低了 20%，二氧化碳排放量減少了 20%，而且噪音降低了 50%。這些飛機將改變瑞安航空的運營成本，將進一步擴大我們相對於歐洲所有競爭對手航空公司已經相當大的單位成本優勢，我認為，這將極大地激勵我們未來十年的增長。

We think about half of this order will be used to replace older NGs, which will start hitting 24, 25 in 2028 and 2029. But half of the order will allow us to sustain controlled, although more modest growth into the early 2030s than we have delivered over the past 10 or 15 years.

我們認為，該訂單中約有一半將用於替換較舊的 NG，這些 NG 將在 2028 年和 2029 年開始達到 24、25 個。但是，一半訂單將使我們能夠在 2030 年代初維持受控的增長，儘管增長比我們過去 10 或 15 年實現的增長更為溫和。

Just in terms of outlook. Therefore, we expect FY '24 traffic to grow to approximately 183.5 million passengers. We've had to step that down from the original 185 million forecast because of these Boeing delivery delays through May and June. And what it also looks like we're going to some delivery delays in September and October as we start gearing up for maintenance, we'll be short some aircraft, and we'll have to pare back some schedules. However, having said that, the cost gap between Ryanair and all of our competitors continues to widen materially in Europe. As previously guided, we expect to see a modest increase in our ex-fuel unit cost this year of about EUR 2.

僅就前景而言。因此，我們預計 24 財年的客運量將增長至約 1.835 億乘客。由於波音公司的交付延遲到 5 月和 6 月，我們不得不將這一數字從最初的 1.85 億架預測中下調。看起來我們將在九月和十月進行一些交付延遲，因為我們開始準備維護，我們將缺少一些飛機，並且我們將不得不削減一些時間表。然而，話雖如此，瑞安航空與我們所有競爭對手在歐洲的成本差距繼續大幅擴大。正如之前的指導，我們預計今年的不含燃料單位成本將小幅增加約 2 歐元。

This is due to the full year impact of annualized crew pay restoration, higher crew ratios, which is material this summer, we're suffering the challenge of really lamentable ATC provision across Europe. We noticed some competitors have already been canceling flights through the peak travel months of July and August. We're not canceling fights. We expect to complete our entire operation, but we need more standby crews to be able to make up the amount of ATC delays we're suffering. The route charges and the impact of the Gamechanger delivery delays will also impact unit costs this year.

這是由於機組人員年薪恢復和機組人員比例上升對全年的影響，這在今年夏天很重要，我們正面臨整個歐洲真正令人遺憾的空中交通管制供應的挑戰。我們注意到一些競爭對手已經取消了七月和八月旅遊高峰期的航班。我們不會取消戰鬥。我們期望完成整個行動，但我們需要更多的待命機組人員來彌補因空中交通管製造成的延誤。航線費用和 Gamechanger 交付延誤的影響也將影響今年的單位成本。

Q2 bookings are strong. We expect to run through Q2 with load factors at 95%, 96%. The fare increase in Q2 will be much lower than it was in Q1. The average fare in Q1 was up just over 40%. We expect in Q2 that, it will be more modest because of a much tougher prior year Q2 pricing, we think low double digits, something in the low teens, and again, that's partly because peak summer travel snapped back very strongly in Q2 last year following the Ukraine invasion.

第二季度預訂強勁。我們預計第二季度的負載率將達到 95%、96%。第二季度的票價漲幅將遠低於第一季度。第一季度的平均票價上漲了 40% 以上。我們預計第二季度的價格將會更加溫和，因為去年第二季度的定價更加嚴格，我們認為低兩位數，大約在十幾歲左右，部分原因是去年烏克蘭入侵後，夏季旅遊高峰在第二季度強勁反彈。

We have noted in the recent couple of weeks, a slight softening in the closed-in fares in late June and early July, nothing that I would be overly worried about at the moment, but I think there's either a degree of customer resistance to the higher fares but we are filling our aircraft and fares that are marginally higher than they were in Q2 last year. But the final H1 outcome, therefore, is highly dependent on the -- the trends in close-in bookings for the remaining seats in August and September. As is usual this time of the year, we have no Q3 or Q4 visibility. We are cautious though that we enjoyed a bumper Christmas and New Year travel period last year.

我們注意到最近幾週，六月末和七月初的封閉票價略有走軟，目前我不會過度擔心，但我認為客戶對更高的票價有一定程度的抵制，但我們正在填充我們的飛機和略高於去年第二季度的票價。但因此，上半年的最終結果在很大程度上取決於 8 月和 9 月剩餘座位的近距離預訂趨勢。與往常一樣，我們看不到第三季度或第四季度的情況。但我們仍持謹慎態度，因為去年我們度過了一個豐收的聖誕節和新年旅行期。

That was the first kind of full Christmas period for that wasn't affected by COVID for 3 years. And we're conscious that this winter, we are looking to grow. We're operating at 125% of our pre-COVID capacity and I would allow for the fact that we may have to engage in some price stimulation as we move into October, November, but we're not seeing that this summer, but we are expecting it later on this year.

這是三年來第一個沒有受到新冠疫情影響的完整聖誕節。我們意識到，這個冬天，我們希望成長。我們的運營率為新冠疫情前產能的 125%，我承認，隨著進入 10 月、11 月，我們可能不得不採取一些價格刺激措施，但今年夏天我們不會看到這種情況，但我們預計會在今年晚些時候出現。

So I think we're right to be cautious. We've had a very strong Q1. We think Q2 will be modestly ahead of where Q2 was last year. Therefore, we'll have a strong H1 but I would be cautious into the second half of the year. Consumers are facing challenges out there across Europe, higher interest rates, highest -- higher mortgage payments, as consumer price inflation is high, you won't have the benefit of the Asian and the American traffic in the second half of the year. And we are pushing 25% capacity growth in a market which this summer in Europe is operating at only 93% of pre-COVID capacity. We think that gets closer to 100% of pre-COVID capacity into the second half of the year. So I think we're right to be cautious. We are well crewed. We're getting through the summer well. Load factors are high, but pricing might just be at that kind of inflection point where it begins to soften a little bit.

所以我認為我們保持謹慎是正確的。我們有一個非常強勁的第一季度。我們認為第二季度將略微領先於去年第二季度。因此，我們將迎來強勁的上半年，但我對下半年持謹慎態度。整個歐洲的消費者都面臨著挑戰​​，更高的利率，更高的抵押貸款支付，由於消費者價格通脹很高，下半年你將無法從亞洲和美國的交通中受益。我們正在推動市場產能增長 25%，而今年夏天歐洲市場的運營能力僅為新冠肺炎疫情前的 93%。我們認為，到今年下半年，這一產能將接近新冠疫情前的 100%。所以我認為我們保持謹慎是正確的。我們的人員配備齊全。我們正在順利地度過這個夏天。負載率很高，但定價可能正處於拐點，開始稍微軟化。

I would welcome a softening in pricing. We've had a very strong recovery over the last 2 summers, but with Ryanair's much lower cost base, I think you're going to see us continue to take market share from competitors. We manage to do that this winter based on price. However, given the uncertainty we have over the H2 Boeing delivery that have been accentuated by the collapse the Yellowstone River bridge in Montana. Our significantly higher fuel bill this year -- our fuel bill will be up EUR 1 billion over last year.

我歡迎價格的軟化。我們在過去兩個夏天實現了非常強勁的複蘇，但由於瑞安航空的成本基礎要低得多，我認為您將看到我們繼續從競爭對手手中奪取市場份額。我們今年冬天設法根據價格做到這一點。然而，考慮到我們對波音 H2 交付的不確定性，蒙大拿州黃石河大橋倒塌加劇了這種不確定性。今年我們的燃油費用顯著提高——我們的燃油費用將比去年增加 10 億歐元。

The continued volatility of unhedged oil prices, very limited H2 visibility and our expectation that the risk of tighter consumer spending in the second half of the year, we still remain cautiously optimistic that full year profit after tax will be modestly ahead of last year. It is, however, still too early to provide any meaningful FY '24 key guidance. And we don't think that will change until we get to the H1 results in November.

由於未對沖的油價持續波動、下半年能見度非常有限以及我們對下半年消費者支出收緊風險的預期，我們仍然對全年稅後利潤將小幅領先去年保持謹慎樂觀。然而，現在提供任何有意義的 24 財年關鍵指導還為時過早。我們認為，在 11 月份公佈上半年結果之前，這種情況不會改變。

I would -- couple of other closing points, we look at the very strong growth profile we have here. They were very excited by our entry into the Albanian market this winter. Albania is a market that is, I think, ripe for exploitation. It's been hampered in recent years by only having one high-fare carrier in the market and I think our arrival into Tirana, Albania, very low -- materially lower fares than the incumbent carrier will mean a pretty dramatic growth in that marketplace.

我想說的是，還有其他幾個要點，我們看看這裡非常強勁的增長狀況。他們對我們今年冬天進入阿爾巴尼亞市場感到非常興奮。我認為阿爾巴尼亞是一個可供開發的市場。近年來，由於市場上只有一家高票價航空公司，它受到了阻礙，我認為我們到達阿爾巴尼亞地拉那的票價非常低——比現有航空公司低得多的票價將意味著該市場的增長相當驚人。

We were pleased and delighted last week. Eddie Wilson, Jason McGuinness, our Director of Commercial and myself. We spent Wednesday, Thursday in Ukraine where we (inaudible) all the main airports, Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa. We have -- we're, I think, inspired was the right word by the state of readiness of those airports. They really have -- they've kept their people employed. The airports are ready to rock and roll the minute it is safe to do so. They're hoping to reopen some air routes into the main airports in Lviv and Kyiv maybe by the end of this year, they're looking at a kind of Israeli type Iron Dome solution over Lviv and Kyiv and if they could achieve that, we'd be hopeful that the European authorities would allow a limited flight resumption.

上週我們感到高興和高興。埃迪·威爾遜 (Eddie Wilson)、傑森·麥吉尼斯 (Jason McGuinness)、我們的商務總監和我本人。我們週三、週四在烏克蘭度過了（聽不清）所有主要機場，基輔、利沃夫、敖德薩。我認為，我們受到這些機場的準備狀態的啟發，這是正確的詞。他們確實做到了——他們讓員工繼續就業。一旦安全，機場就做好了準備。他們希望在今年年底前重新開放一些飛往利沃夫和基輔主要機場的航線，他們正在考慮在利沃夫和基輔上空採用一種以色列式的鐵穹解決方案，如果他們能夠實現這一目標，我們希望歐洲當局允許有限的航班恢復。

I think it's important for Ukraine and the people of Ukraine, I mean, we endured a 10-hour train journey from Poland into Ukraine in and out. The one thing that's missing in Ukraine Kyiv is remarkably normal, but what they're missing is air travel. And we -- I think it's incumbent on all of us in Europe to support Ukraine as best we can. And I think the best way we can support Ukraine is by leading the return to air travel. So we continue to work closely with the [Yasa], the FAA to encourage them to reopen at least even if it's only on a limited basis, the return of fights into Kyiv, and Lviv. Once the war ends, and we all hope it will be sooner rather than later, we would charge back into Ukraine. We've committed to basing up to 30 aircraft in Kyiv, Lviv and Odessa.

我認為這對烏克蘭和烏克蘭人民來說很重要，我的意思是，我們經歷了從波蘭到烏克蘭進出的 10 個小時的火車旅程。烏克蘭基輔缺少一件事是非常正常的，但他們缺少的是航空旅行。我認為我們所有歐洲人都有責任盡最大努力支持烏克蘭。我認為我們支持烏克蘭的最佳方式是引領航空旅行的回歸。因此，我們繼續與[Yasa]、美國聯邦航空局密切合作，鼓勵他們至少重新開放，即使只是在有限的基礎上，讓戰鬥重新回到基輔和利沃夫。一旦戰爭結束，我們都希望盡快結束，我們將衝回烏克蘭。我們已承諾在基輔、利沃夫和敖德薩部署多達 30 架飛機。

(inaudible), Kharkiv, will be delayed because those airports have suffered significant damage, but we intend to return back in there within 4 to 6 weeks of being allowed to do so. We expect to be connecting Kyiv and Lviv with up to 25 or 30 European cities. Ukraine was a big and growing market for Ryanair prior to the invasion. And after they have successfully repulsed the Russians, we expect to Ryanair will be the #1 airline in Ukraine. And in reasonably short order, we'll be the #1 airline in Albania as well. I think this underscores the strength of the growth that is still ahead of us -- in front of us in Ryanair, not just in Western Europe, but in Central and Eastern Europe, where the more we push into those markets, the more we take market share from our high-fare competitors.

（聽不清）哈爾科夫機場的航班將被延誤，因為這些機場遭受了嚴重損壞，但我們打算在獲准後 4 到 6 週內返回那裡。我們預計將基輔和利沃夫與多達 25 或 30 個歐洲城市連接起來。在入侵之前，烏克蘭是瑞安航空的一個巨大且不斷增長的市場。在他們成功擊退俄羅斯人之後，我們預計瑞安航空將成為烏克蘭排名第一的航空公司。在相當短的時間內，我們也將成為阿爾巴尼亞排名第一的航空公司。我認為這凸顯了我們仍然面臨的增長力量——在瑞安航空面前，不僅是在西歐，而且在中歐和東歐，我們越深入這些市場，我們從高票價競爭對手那里奪取的市場份額就越多。

One last thought, there is, I think, a slightly over optimistic. We are looking forward to we're holding a Capital Markets Day on the first week of September. The purpose of that day is to take everybody through the MAX 10 aircraft order, a detailed drill down into the very exciting growth opportunities we have all over Europe for the next, and in those countries close to Europe, for the next decade. We will not be updating profitability. We will not be disclosing dividends or anything else. We really want to have a drill down into just the growth, the MAX 10 and what it will do for our costs.

最後一個想法，我認為有點過於樂觀了。我們期待在九月的第一周舉辦資本市場日。這一天的目的是讓大家了解 MAX 10 飛機訂單，詳細深入了解未來十年我們在整個歐洲以及在歐洲附近的國家所擁有的非常令人興奮的增長機會。我們不會更新盈利能力。我們不會披露股息或其他任何信息。我們確實希望深入了解 MAX 10 的增長情況以及它對我們成本的影響。

We will be sometime before the middle end of August, issuing the Class 1 document together with the AGM notice for the MAX 10 order and that way so that will limit what we are any commentary we will have between it and the AGM when we hope shareholders will back our vision and support the order for the MAX 10 aircraft.

我們將在 8 月中旬之前的某個時間，發布 1 級文件以及 MAX 10 訂單的年度股東大會通知，這樣當我們希望股東支持我們的願景並支持 MAX 10 飛機的訂單時，我們將限制我們在該文件和年度股東大會之間的任何評論。

So I just want to make sure that we have punctured any irrational expectation that the Capital Markets Day would be some dramatic reveal, it won't, but there will be very exciting, I think, news and communications on our decade of growth which rolls out before us in a marketplace in Europe where capacity is constrained and where all of our incumbent competitors have seen our emerging out of COVID with materially higher unit costs than Ryanair is. I'm astonished, never ceased to be amazed. I looked at the numbers last week. Our PE multiple currently is 11. The PE multiples of Wizz and easyJet who are -- can either match our profitability, our growth or our unit costs are also 10 and 11. So either they're materially overvalued or we're materially undervalued, but I'm sure the market will work it out in due course.

因此，我只是想確保我們已經打破了任何非理性預期，即資本市場日將帶來一些戲劇性的啟示，但我認為，將會有非常令人興奮的關於我們十年增長的新聞和通訊，這些新聞和通訊將在我們面前的歐洲市場展開，那裡的運力受到限制，我們所有現有的競爭對手都看到我們以比瑞安航空高得多的單位成本擺脫了新冠疫情。我很驚訝，從未停止過驚訝。我上週查看了這些數字。目前，我們的市盈率是 11 倍。Wizz 和易捷航空的市盈率分別是 10 倍和 11 倍，可以與我們的盈利能力、增長速度或單位成本相匹配。因此，要么它們被嚴重高估，要么我們被嚴重低估，但我相信市場會在適當的時候解決這個問題。

We look forward to seeing you all here at the Capital Markets Day in September. I think we have a very exciting story to tell on our new aircraft order on growth for the next decade, but that would be the height of it on that date. Neil, do you want to take us through the MD&A or any point you want to raise on cost (inaudible).

我們期待在九月的資本市場日與大家見面。我認為我們有一個非常激動人心的故事要講，關於我們的新飛機訂單在未來十年的增長，但這將是那天的最高點。 Neil，您想向我們介紹一下 MD&A 或您想就成本提出的任何觀點嗎（聽不清）。

I'll very briefly just run through because (inaudible), you covered off everything quite comprehensively. I think it's clear that we will continue to have the unit cost advantage over everybody else, although there is a bit of price inflation coming through in the first quarter as we annualize the pay restoration and the pay increases that we've awarded our people. And as Michael said, we've invested very heavily in crewing ratios. This summer, we were operating up to about 5.8 set of crews per aircraft, up from 5.4 sets of crews last year. So you're seeing that coming through, an increase in local ATC charges also coming through in the airport and handling line. So I think that, that's apparent in the numbers this morning.

我將非常簡短地介紹一下，因為（聽不清），您非常全面地涵蓋了所有內容。我認為很明顯，我們將繼續比其他所有人擁有單位成本優勢，儘管第一季度會出現一些價格通脹，因為我們將工資恢復和我們授予員工的工資增長按年計算。正如邁克爾所說，我們在人員比例方面投入了大量資金。今年夏天，我們每架飛機配備約 5.8 名機組人員，高於去年的 5.4 名機組人員。所以你會看到，機場和處理線的當地 ATC 費用也增加了。所以我認為，這一點在今天早上的數字中很明顯。

The balance sheet's in very good shape. We finished with EUR 4.84 billion gross cash. And as Michael said, just under EUR 1 billion in net cash, and that was after EUR 1 billion in CapEx, including a $250 million signing fee on the MAX 10, which we signed back in May. So we've got another EUR 1.8 billion to go for the balance of this year. Our balance sheets became fully unencumbered last Friday when we paid off our final Exim loan. So all of the 737, 800s now fully unencumbered, which I think is unique, and that's reflected in the ratings that we got from Fitch and S&P up to BBB+.

資產負債表狀況非常好。我們最終的現金總額為 48.4 億歐元。正如邁克爾所說，淨現金略低於 10 億歐元，這是在資本支出 10 億歐元之後，包括 MAX 10 的 2.5 億美元簽約費，我們在 5 月份簽了字。因此，我們還有 18 億歐元用於今年的剩餘資金。上週五，當我們還清最後一筆進出口貸款時，我們的資產負債表變得完全沒有負擔。因此，所有 737、800 現已完全不受阻礙，我認為這是獨一無二的，這反映在我們從惠譽和標準普爾獲得的高達 BBB+ 的評級中。

Hedging, again, as Michael said, very well hedged for the year, just under 85% hedging of which 75% is through swaps and the balance through options. So we've got about 25% of our fuel floating. And then as we look into next year, we've got about 40% of the first half of the year hedged out at approximately $75 a barrel and then some modest hedging into the second half of the year.

對沖，正如邁克爾所說，今年的對沖非常好，略低於 85% 的對沖，其中 75% 通過掉期，其餘通過期權。所以我們大約有 25% 的燃料在漂浮。然後，當我們展望明年時，我們上半年約有 40% 的產品以每桶約 75 美元的價格進行了對沖，然後在下半年進行了一些適度的對沖。

Just some other bits and pieces, the Class 1 circular will be issued in the next couple of weeks. And this morning, we published our annual report for 2023 and our 2023 sustainability report on our website, which sets out our ambitious targets for the next decade there as well. And that's pretty much it for me, Michael.

只是其他一些零散的內容，一級通告將在接下來的幾週內發布。今天早上，我們在網站上發布了 2023 年年度報告和 2023 年可持續發展報告，其中也列出了我們未來十年的雄心勃勃的目標。這對我來說就是這樣，邁克爾。

Okay. Thanks, Neil. We'll open up to Q&A. Now I'm joined here we're in Dublin, where Eddie Wilson, the DACH CEO; [Tracy Malloy]; Tom Fowler, Peter Larkin; Juliusz Komorek and Neil is obviously joining us from London where he's doing the media. So we're going to open it up to Q&A, and I'll front-pass the questions around, so we get everybody involved in the call. Thank you.

好的。謝謝，尼爾。我們將開放問答。現在我來到都柏林，與 DACH 首席執行官埃迪·威爾遜 (Eddie Wilson) 會面。 [特雷西·馬洛伊]；湯姆·福勒、彼得·拉金； Juliusz Komorek 和 Neil 顯然是從倫敦加入我們的，他在那裡負責媒體工作。因此，我們將開放問答環節，我將提前傳遞問題，以便讓每個人都參與到電話會議中。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today from Savanthi Prelis-Syth from Raymond James.

（操作員說明）今天我們的第一個問題來自 Raymond James 的 Savanthi Prelis-Syth。

If I might, on the fleet plan, it looks like there were some changes there, a little bit of MAX 10 shifting around I was wondering if that was kind of based on what Boeing is telling you or you're making some assumptions given what you're seeing today? And then just for my second question, I was kind of curious with the investments in the operational resilience, does that get baked into the base and then we see kind of more of a normalized growth on top of that? Or how should we think about some of the investments that are being made there? And the impact on cost?

可以的話，在機隊計劃上，看起來好像有一些變化，MAX 10 發生了一些變化，我想知道這是否是基於波音告訴你的，或者你根據今天所看到的情況做出了一些假設？對於我的第二個問題，我對運營彈性方面的投資感到好奇，這是否會融入基礎，然後我們會看到更多的正常化增長？或者我們應該如何考慮在那裡進行的一些投資？以及對成本的影響？

You broke up once or twice, but if I picked it up, the only change in the fleet plan is just delayed deliveries from Boeing. We've had to continue to be reasonably adaptive there. At one stage, we thought we might only get 35 air crafts for the peak summer this year. It's now like I think, credit to Boeing, they delivered all 51, but the last one will arrive on the 31st of July. So we are -- that's cost us about 300,000, 400,000 passengers through June, July. We've had to take about 200,000 passengers out of August and we are moving back. We're going to be 7 or 8 aircraft short in September, October because we start all the maintenance on the fleet. But Other than that, there isn't any -- and then we are moving some of the deliveries into summer of 2024 are moving back from February, March, April, they're moving into April, May, June. We are working closely with Spirit in Wichita and with Boeing to try to give us the most accurate figure we have on the fleet. Investment in operation.

你們分手過一兩次，但如果我接的話，機隊計劃唯一的變化只是波音推遲交付。我們必須繼續合理地適應那裡。曾幾何時，我們認為今年夏季高峰期可能只會獲得 35 架飛機。現在我想，感謝波音公司，他們交付了全部 51 架飛機，但最後一架將於 7 月 31 日抵達。所以，到 6 月、7 月，我們已經損失了大約 30 萬、40 萬乘客。 8 月份我們不得不帶走大約 200,000 名乘客，我們正在返回。九月、十月我們將缺少 7 或 8 架飛機，因為我們開始對機隊進行所有維護。但除此之外，沒有任何 - 然後我們將部分交付移至 2024 年夏季，從 2 月、3 月、4 月移至 4 月、5 月、6 月。我們正在與威奇託的 Spirit 以及波音公司密切合作，試圖為我們提供機隊中最準確的數據。投資經營。

It looks like Michael, your MAX 10 deliveries were a little bit delayed too, like different than what you had in May.

邁克爾，您的 MAX 10 交付也有點延遲，與您 5 月份的情況不同。

No, no. There's no change.

不，不。沒有任何變化。

There was some slow changes just sadly from the final expiration from the draft (inaudible) between the first two.

遺憾的是，前兩次選秀的最終到期（聽不清）之間發生了一些緩慢的變化。

Yes. The numbers are still the same per year. The investment operational resilience, like again, I'll give you the good. There's good news and bad news. The good news is that the airport handling generally across Europe has been materially better this year than it was last year. Most airports, most handling companies are reasonably well staffed this summer. And so we're not seeing any significant changes Or there's significant improvement over last year.

是的。每年的數字仍然相同。投資運營彈性，再次喜歡，我會給你好處。有好消息和壞消息。好消息是，今年歐洲各地機場的處理情況總體上比去年好得多。今年夏天，大多數機場、大多數裝卸公司的人員都相當充足。因此，我們沒有看到任何重大變化，或者比去年有重大改進。

The bad news is that ATC is a shambles. They are short staffed, particularly at weekends. We have long complained about the 60 days of French ATC strikes. And the European Commission continues to sit on its hands doing nothing. I keep writing to Ursula von der Leyen. She keeps fabbing the correspondent after DG move, which is a misdescription in terms of DG no move. Nothing is being done for Europe. We are calling the minimum. We're calling forest protection of overflights during French ATC strikes. That hasn't been delivered. Most of the ATC providers, the German, the French are short staffed inexplicably and are incapable of providing the staffing that's necessary.

壞消息是 ATC 一片混亂。他們人手短缺，尤其是在周末。我們長期以來一直抱怨法國ATC長達60天的罷工。而歐盟委員會繼續袖手旁觀，無所作為。我一直給烏蘇拉·馮德萊恩寫信。 DG 搬遷後，她一直對記者胡言亂語，這是對 DG 不搬遷的錯誤描述。沒有為歐洲做任何事情。我們正在調用最小值。我們稱之為法國空中交通管制罷工期間飛越森林的森林保護。那還沒有交付。大多數空中交通管制提供商（德國、法國）都莫名其妙地人手短缺，無法提供必要的人員配置。

Remember, Europe this year is only operating at 93% of its pre-COVID capacity. And yet ATCs have less staffing than they had in 2019 and 2020. It is a mismanagement shambles but it's exactly what you expect from anything run by European government and by the European Commission. But the continuing failure of the European Commission to take some action on this is inexplicable.

請記住，歐洲今年的運營能力僅為新冠疫情爆發前的 93%。然而，ATC 的人員配備比 2019 年和 2020 年要少。這是管理不善的混亂，但這正是你對歐洲政府和歐盟委員會管理的任何事物的期望。但歐盟委員會始終未能就此採取行動，這是令人費解的。

I think it's inevitable that we will have to maintain that, I think, improved operational resilience for the next year or two until we see Europe take some action on air traffic control. And we're still -- we would expect it to be as bad this time next year. I expect next summer Europe to be operating at about 100% of its pre-COVID short-haul capacity and ATC will still be giving us capacity restrictions at weekend, short staffing, excuses, piled upon excuses and nothing being done.

我認為，我們不可避免地必須在未來一兩年內保持運營彈性的提高，直到我們看到歐洲在空中交通管制方面採取一些行動。我們仍然預計明年這個時候情況會同樣糟糕。我預計明年夏天歐洲的運營能力將達到新冠疫情爆發前的短途運力的 100%，而 ATC 仍將在周末對我們進行運力限制、人員短缺、各種藉口、一堆藉口卻什麼也不做。

So I think it is for additional -- while we've doubled up the operations capacity in Dublin and in Warsaw. But the additional crewing, I think it will be with us here for the next summer or two. I don't think it's long term. I think ultimately, something will be done about European ATC and the mismanagement of ATC but I wouldn't hold out any great hope that Ursula von der Leyen is going to do anything useful other than sit in her hands doing nothing. Eddie, you want to add to that?

所以我認為這是為了額外的——同時我們已經將都柏林和華沙的運營能力增加了一倍。但額外的人員，我認為我們將在接下來的一兩個夏天呆在這裡。我不認為這是長期的。我認為最終將會對歐洲空中交通管制和空中交通管制的管理不善採取一些措施，但我不會對烏蘇拉·馮德萊恩抱有任何太大的希望，希望烏爾蘇拉·馮德萊恩除了坐在她手中什麼也不做之外，會做任何有用的事情。艾迪，你想補充一下嗎？

Yes. I mean I think the important thing is that what's within our control we are significantly better in terms of solving those issues. So the 2 main (inaudible) that Michael touched on there was the increased crewing ratios, which you've got to be ahead of the curve of like 6, 12 months ago to bring those people through. We're still training over 1,000 cadets a year, and we have significantly increased our cabin crew ratios. And quite rightly, like as ATC is hopefully solved over the next number of years, and we're growing, we can get growing ratios. We can sort of lean into that.

是的。我的意思是，我認為重要的是，在我們的控制範圍內，我們在解決這些問題方面要明顯更好。因此，邁克爾談到的第二個主要問題（聽不清）是增加人員比例，你必須領先於 6、12 個月前的曲線，才能讓這些人渡過難關。我們每年仍在培訓超過 1,000 名學員，並且顯著提高了機組人員的比例。完全正確的是，就像 ATC 希望在未來幾年內得到解決一樣，而且我們正在成長，我們可以獲得不斷增長的比率。我們可以對此有所了解。

But more importantly, at the operations control center level, both here and in (inaudible), labs has been particularly important to us in designing systems that allow us in this environment where you've got, what would have been 5, 6 years ago, meltdown days versus we're able to manage that in real time in optimizing the allocation of crews. And that has been critical not just piling extra bodies in but the support and systems that we have here that are homegrown systems and are working very effectively this summer. I mean it just -- it makes you -- you're able to get through without cancellations unlike many of our competitors.

但更重要的是，在運營控制中心層面，無論是在這裡還是在（聽不清），實驗室對我們設計系統特別重要，這些系統使我們能夠在五六年前的環境中度過崩潰的日子，而我們能夠實時管理這一情況，優化人員分配。這不僅是至關重要的，不僅僅是堆放額外的屍體，還有我們這裡擁有的支持和系統，這些都是本土系統，並且在今年夏天運行得非常有效。我的意思是它只是 - 它讓你 - 能夠在沒有取消的情況下完成任務，這與我們的許多競爭對手不同。

The next question comes from Muneeba Kayani from Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Muneeba Kayani。

So just on your comments on the softening in closing fares, is there anything you would call out in terms of specific geographies? Would you say there's a change in customer booking behavior maybe and kind of what portion of the second quarter -- fiscal second quarter is booked currently?

那麼，就您對最終票價疲軟的評論而言，您對特定地區有什麼要指出的嗎？您是否認為客戶的預訂行為可能會發生變化，目前預訂了第二季度（第二財季）的哪一部分？

And then the second question just on uses of cash. And in the video, you talked about a potential cash return to shareholders. What are you thinking at this point within -- across like dividend or buyback? And any metrics that we should think about in terms of a potential size in March this year -- fiscal year?

第二個問題是關於現金的使用。在視頻中，您談到了股東的潛在現金回報。此時此刻，您在想什麼——比如股息還是回購？我們應該考慮今年 3 月份（財年）潛在規模的任何指標嗎？

Again, I would draw your attention, I think it's important we say it. Partly this is, I think, is a function of the weak prior year comps in Q1 and the strong prior comps in Q2. As we went through April, May and June, the close-in fares, we were seeing continuously kind of booking up -- your fares were significantly up ahead of budget expectations. As we move into Q2, close-in fares are closer to our budget expectations. There's a kind of a leveling out. We're still running marginally ahead of our budget expectations and low to mid-double digit ahead of Q2 last year.

再次，我想提請您注意，我認為我們說出來很重要。我認為，這在一定程度上是由於第一季度較弱的前一年比較和第二季度較弱的前一年比較所致。當我們經歷四月、五月和六月的臨近票價時，我們看到不斷的預訂——你們的票價大大超出了預算預期。隨著我們進入第二季度，票價接近我們的預算預期。有一種平衡。我們的預算仍略高於預算預期，比去年第二季度低至中兩位數。

But I think -- what we're trying to communicate here is in the last number of weeks, the closing stuff has softened. In some cases, we're now looking at very few seats left available to travel. We may have oversold Q2 a little bit ahead of schedule. But we're not seeing the same kind of jump up in close-in bookings that we saw in Q1. But I think that's more a factor in Q1. Our budget was kind of predicated on last year's weak prior year comps versus Q2 it's not.

但我認為——我們在這裡試圖傳達的是，在過去的幾周里，結束語已經軟化了。在某些情況下，我們現在面臨的情況是可供旅行的座位所剩無幾。我們可能提前一點點超賣了第二季度。但我們並沒有看到第一季度的近距離預訂量出現同樣的增長。但我認為這更多是第一季度的一個因素。我們的預算是基於去年較弱的前一年比較與第二季度相比而得出的，但事實並非如此。

And again, I just -- I don't think that to be worried about here. But I do want to communicate we've had a very, very strong Q1. Q2 will not be very strong. It would be good, but not this good. And I don't want any kind of irrational exuberance building up out there. No more than that. Uses of cash, we try to be as transparent as we can. The Board has set us kind of 4 in sequentially, the priorities in terms of cash and profitability. One, restored the pay cuts. We did that 24 months early in December of last year. We're agreeing pay increases with the pilots, cabin crews, our ground handlers across Europe. We've done deals with almost all the cabin crews. Most of the pilot groups are now largely done, and we're working our way through the ground handlers as well. It's an ongoing process, but the Board is committed. I think the first use of funds was repay restoration and rewarding the people who stood loyally with us through COVID with pay increases.

再說一遍，我只是——我認為不必擔心這一點。但我確實想傳達的信息是，我們的第一季度非常非常強勁。 Q2不會很強。會很好，但不會這麼好。我不希望那裡出現任何非理性的繁榮。僅此而已。在現金的使用方面，我們盡力做到透明。董事會為我們設定了 4 個順序，即現金和盈利能力方面的優先事項。一、恢復減薪。我們在去年 12 月初的 24 個月前就做到了這一點。我們同意與歐洲各地的飛行員、機組人員和地勤人員加薪。我們已經與幾乎所有機組人員達成了協議。大多數試點小組現在已基本完成，我們也正在通過地勤人員進行工作。這是一個持續的過程，但董事會對此做出了承諾。我認為資金的第一個用途是償還恢復資金，並通過加薪來獎勵那些在新冠疫情期間忠誠地與我們站在一起的人。

The pay increase will be modest. We are already significantly adding to the headcount here. The crewing ratios are higher. But the pilots, cabin crews and ground handlers, the people are delivering the service deserve pay increases first.

加薪幅度將會不大。我們已經大幅增加了這裡的員工人數。船員比例更高。但飛行員、機組人員和地勤人員以及提供服務的人員首先應該得到加薪。

Second is debt reduction. We have bonds, which -- we're looking at bonds, we're repaying bonds here where we're paying an interest rate of 1%, 1.25%. The refinancing cost of those bonds today would even for us with a BBB+ would be 4.5%, 5%. So we are committed to paying down that debt. As Neil said, we paid down the last of our Exim debt last week. We have another bond of EUR 750 million to pay in August of this year. And then we have 2 more bonds of about EUR 2 billion, one of which is due in September '25 and one in May '26. And then we will be completely debt free at that point in time.

二是減債。我們有債券，我們正在研究債券，我們正在償還債券，我們支付的利率為 1%、1.25%。即使對於 BBB+ 的我們來說，今天這些債券的再融資成本也將是 4.5%、5%。因此，我們致力於償還債務。正如尼爾所說，我們上週還清了最後一筆進出口債務。今年 8 月，我們還有另一筆 7.5 億歐元的債券需要支付。然後我們還有另外兩支債券，總價值約 20 億歐元，其中一支將於 2025 年 9 月到期，另一支將於 26 年 5 月到期。到那時我們將完全擺脫債務。

The third use of funds is going to be CapEx. As Neil said, we're in peak CapEx this year. The CapEx does begin to run off as we run through the next 2 years, and we have that a 2-year gap between the last of the Gamechanger deliveries and the first of MAX 10 deliveries. And only and after we're confident that we can fund all of those commitments can we look at returning cash to shareholders. I think it's something we'll be focusing on at the end of this year. Maybe we'll see some light at the tunnel when we get to the half year numbers in November, but it certainly won't be before that date.

資金的第三個用途是資本支出。正如尼爾所說，我們今年正處於資本支出高峰。隨著我們接下來的兩年，資本支出確實開始減少，並且最後一次 Gamechanger 交付和第一次 MAX 10 交付之間存在 2 年的差距。只有當我們確信我們能夠為所有這些承諾提供資金後，我們才能考慮向股東返還現金。我認為這是我們今年年底將重點關注的事情。也許當我們在 11 月份看到半年數據時，我們會看到一些曙光，但肯定不會在那之前。

I think we've communicated clearly that it's more likely to be dividends than share buybacks. And if you read the press release, I mean, in terms of scale, I think we're conscious of the fact that during the worst of the COVID crisis, the shareholders invested EUR 400 million in the company. That enabled us to access the bond markets. We raised EUR 1.2 billion at the time during COVID at an annual interest rate of under 1%.

我認為我們已經明確表示，這更有可能是股息而不是股票回購。如果你閱讀新聞稿，我的意思是，就規模而言，我認為我們意識到這樣一個事實：在新冠危機最嚴重的時期，股東向公司投資了 4 億歐元。這使我們能夠進入債券市場。新冠疫情期間，我們以低於 1% 的年利率籌集了 12 億歐元。

So I think our kind of starting position looking -- if we're looking at a dividend would be try to return as much, if not all, of that EUR 400 million as we can, but we won't make any decisions on that. I think until the half year numbers in November or maybe in Q1 are in -- at the end of this year or early next year.

因此，我認為我們的起始立場是——如果我們考慮股息，我們會盡力返還 4 億歐元（如果不是全部的話），但我們不會就此做出任何決定。我認為直到 11 月或第一季度的半年數據出來——今年年底或明年初。

The next question comes from Harry Gowers from JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的哈里·高爾斯。

Just 2 questions, if I can. So the first one, just on the ex-fuel costs, I think up EUR 2 in March '24. And I think, Neil, you indicated previously you don't want to keep it flat in March '25 year-on-year. So is that still the case?

如果可以的話，只有兩個問題。因此，第一個，僅就燃油成本而言，我認為 24 年 3 月上漲了 2 歐元。我認為，尼爾，您之前曾表示您不想讓 25 年 3 月的業績同比持平。那麼現在還是這樣嗎？

And then, Michael, just on the trimming of the full year parts guidance, do you think there's a possibility you can actually make up the EUR 1.5 million over the rest of the year? Or is there probably a heightened risk further today is actually lower than the back guidance further?

然後，邁克爾，就全年零部件指導的調整而言，您認為您是否有可能在今年剩餘時間內實際彌補 150 萬歐元？或者今天可能進一步加劇的風險實際上低於後面的指導？

Can Neil you take the (inaudible) unit costs, and I'll ask Tracy if she has any comments on that, and then I'll deal with the full year parts guidance.

尼爾，你能接受（聽不清）單位成本嗎？我會問特雷西是否對此有任何意見，然後我將處理全年零件指南。

On FY '25, we would be hopeful that we'll be up at about just over EUR 33 passenger at the end of this year on an ex-fuel basis, we would be hopeful that we would maintain something along those lines, into the following year. We're a 5.8 sets of crews per aircraft. We would hope we wouldn't have to go any higher than that for operational resilience into the following year. We do have some modest pay increase coming through, we can observe that in the numbers that we have. So yes, I mean the hope and the plan is that we will be broadly in line with the 33 into FY '25.

在 25 財年，我們希望到今年年底，我們的乘客費用將在不包括燃油的基礎上增加到略高於 33 歐元，我們希望我們能在明年保持這樣的水平。每架飛機有 5.8 名機組人員。我們希望明年的運營彈性不會比這個更高。我們確實有一些適度的加薪，我們可以從我們現有的數字中觀察到這一點。所以，是的，我的意思是希望和計劃是我們將與 25 財年的 33 個目標大致一致。

Tracy, do you want to add something on the fuel cost?

特雷西，你想增加一些燃料費用嗎？

Yes. Probably what has said, it's really too many paper staff, and then we see airports and handling and staff is increased growing rate pay restoration and modest pay increases and the airport and handling as we previously indicated it increased local ATC, and then we're seeing some wage inflation on the (inaudible) handling and the handling side of they release the 2 million drivers in the EUR 2 cost.

是的。也許已經說過了，紙質工作人員確實太多了，然後我們看到機場和裝卸和工作人員的工資恢復率和適度的加薪都在增加，機場和裝卸正如我們之前指出的那樣增加了當地的 ATC，然後我們看到（聽不清）裝卸和裝卸方面的工資有所上漲，他們以 2 歐元的成本釋放了 200 萬司機。

Okay. And on the trimming of FY, we could -- if we were in the old days, I think we would have gone balls out it's 185 million, and we're just going to dump lost the capacity into the winter I don't think the marketplace requires that now and nor would we. I think we operated quite successfully last winter by trimming out a lot of loss-making midweek capacity. We're running the full schedule of weekends. That's the way the winter profile looks except in those new markets like Albania and/or Ukraine, if we can get in there this winter. But generally speaking, no, I would not be minded in current markets, particularly where there is capacity is still constrained in Europe to be artificially dumping prices or artificially growing mid-week capacity during the winter season, just to hit some target of 185 million.

好的。在財政年度的調整上，我們可以 - 如果我們在過去，我認為我們會全力以赴，這是 1.85 億，我們只是將失去的產能轉儲到冬季，我認為市場現在不需要，我們也不會。我認為我們去年冬天通過削減大量虧損的周中產能而運營得相當成功。我們正在執行週末的完整時間表。這就是冬季概況的樣子，除了阿爾巴尼亞和/或烏克蘭等新市場（如果我們今年冬天能進入那裡的話）。但總的來說，不，我不會介意當前的市場，特別是在歐洲運力仍然受到限制的情況下，為了達到 1.85 億的目標，在冬季人為地傾銷價格或人為地增加周中運力。

If as a result of the Boeing delivery delays, we only have capacity for 183.5 million, then I think we will aim for the 183.5 million. We'll try to manage the yields as best we can during the winter. The yields in the winter will be lower than they were in the summer. The narrative that the era of low fares is over and is never coming back is not a correct one. There is still lots of low-fare availability. Our average fare in the first quarter was EUR 49, which I think by any measure of means is a low fare in Europe. It's certainly far lower than any other airline in Europe can provide but no, we will not run additional midweek capacities with just scraping another 1.5 million additional passengers. Eddie, anything else you would have on that commercial.

如果由於波音交付延遲，我們的產能只有 1.835 億架，那麼我認為我們的目標是 1.835 億架。我們將盡力在冬季控制產量。冬季的產量將低於夏季。低票價時代已經結束並且永遠不會回來的說法並不正確。仍有大量低價機票可供選擇。我們第一季度的平均票價為 49 歐元，我認為無論如何衡量，這在歐洲都是很低的票價。這肯定遠低於歐洲任何其他航空公司所能提供的服務，但我們不會在周中增加運力，而只是再減少 150 萬名額外乘客。埃迪，還有什麼你想在那個廣告上看到的嗎？

Yes. I mean, I would agree there. I mean as we look through to the winter, we've gone back again like compared with winter '22 in terms of mid-week capacity of 30% and we're up to 70% for weekend. So that's evidence of that sort of trimming that's going on midweek. In terms of the review of what happened last winter, also looking at, I mean, Easter will be slightly earlier this year as well. And putting in Christmas extras and looking at sort of those troughs and activity beyond the 10th of January as well.

是的。我的意思是，我同意這一點。我的意思是，當我們展望冬季時，與 22 年冬季相比，周中容量為 30%，週末容量達到 70%。這就是周中正在進行的那種調整的證據。回顧去年冬天發生的事情，我的意思是，今年的複活節也會稍微早一些。並添加聖誕額外內容，並關注 1 月 10 日之後的低谷和活動。

So we continue to do that (inaudible) by the numbers. We've got to look at the basis that we opened this summer to make sure that they go through into the wintertime, given support in the Canaries again, are particularly strong. So and leisure routes began in spaces like from Winter soon into or Morocco, Jordan, places like us, so it's -- that's where we'll be concentrating the efforts rather than chasing passenger numbers. So you'd ask me unlikely to make that as we would have done in the old days.

因此，我們繼續通過數字來做到這一點（聽不清）。我們必須審視今年夏天開啟的基礎，以確保它們能夠進入冬季，在加那利群島的再次支持下，特別強勁。因此，休閒路線開始於從冬季到摩洛哥、約旦等像我們這樣的地方，所以這就是我們將集中精力而不是追逐乘客數量的地方。所以你可能會問我不太可能像過去那樣做到這一點。

The next question comes from James Hollins from Exane BNP Paribas.

下一個問題來自法國巴黎銀行的 James Hollins。

You're going to hate this question, but I'm going to come back on the pricing. You talked about low double digit, then you talked about mid-teens and then low double to mid-teens. If you were lucky enough to be an analyst, would you be thinking about mid-teens is what you currently sold at, but the management of Ryanair have been quite cautious on that close-in.

你可能會討厭這個問題，但我會回到定價問題上。你談到了低兩位數，然後你談到了中青少年，然後是低兩位數到中青少年。如果你足夠幸運成為一名分析師，你會考慮你目前的銷售價格是十幾歲左右嗎？但瑞安航空的管理層對此持謹慎態度。

And then the second one is just on your pilots. Are you seeing any sort of -- I think everywhere except for Belgians, they're done on contracts. Are you seeing any of them sort of coming back and saying that performance is good, sum is good, we want a higher pay increase?

然後第二個就在你的飛行員身上了。你是否看到過任何形式的——我認為除了比利時人之外，其他地方的人都是按合同完成的。你是否看到他們中的任何一個人回來說表現很好，收入很好，我們想要更高的加薪？

I'll ask Eddie to come back on the pilot. Sorry if I be. I mean I would have guarded mid-teens as low to low double digits like we expect that the yield number -- the average fare in Q1 was up 42%. We expect the -- at the moment, our best guess is that the yield performance in Q2 is going to be somewhere in the -- between, I would say, 10% and 15%. At the moment, it's running at the upper end of that range. But we're -- I'm a little bit cautious just in the closing stuff has been a little bit weaker for the last 4 or 5 weeks. I don't see a reason why at the back end of August or the September bookings at the moment will be dramatically different.

我會請艾迪回來試播。抱歉，如果我是的話。我的意思是，我會像我們預期的那樣將收益率保持在兩位數左右——第一季度的平均票價上漲了 42%。我們預計，目前，我們最好的猜測是，第二季度的收益率表現將在 10% 到 15% 之間。目前，它運行在該範圍的上限。但我們——我有點謹慎，只是因為過去四五週的收盤數據有點疲軟。我不明白為什麼八月底或九月的預訂量會出現顯著不同。

So I would be pitching if I was lucky enough to be an analyst, if I'd only worked harder in school and got a job as an analyst, I would be pitching it very much at the -- in that 10% to 15% range. It still will demonstrate a reasonably strong Q2. The H1 numbers will be strong for the year, given that last year's H2 was EUR 1.2 billion PAT, but this is a long winter. And I'm slightly cautious in that there is still significant pent-up demand for holiday bookings this summer. There's still constrained capacity supply. You still have lots of competitors who have much higher unit cost (inaudible) pricing. But into the winter, the higher interest rate, higher mortgage rates, consumer price inflation, has to feed back into air travel at some point in time. And I would be expecting that this winter.

因此，如果我足夠幸運能夠成為一名分析師，如果我在學校更加努力並找到一份分析師的工作，我就會在 10% 到 15% 的範圍內進行推銷。第二季度仍將表現出相當強勁的表現。鑑於去年下半年的稅後利潤為 12 億歐元，今年上半年的數據將會很強勁，但這是一個漫長的冬天。我有點謹慎，因為今年夏天的假期預訂仍有大量被壓抑的需求。產能供應仍然有限。您仍然有很多競爭對手，他們的單位成本（聽不清）定價要高得多。但進入冬季，更高的利率、更高的抵押貸款利率、消費者價格通脹，必須在某個時間點反饋到航空旅行中。我預計今年冬天會這樣。

So I'd be a little bit more bearish in the second half of the year, but we still do -- I mean, we're heading for a very strong and very profitable year overall. I would just be cautious into the second half of the year. And then we're looking at next year where if oil prices continue as they are, we could pick up anything up to EUR 1 billion in terms of additional savings on our numbers. So the medium-term outlook here is very strong. The aircraft order means we can grow 300 million passengers within Europe over the next decade. I would just be cautious on -- we've had a very strong Q1. Q2 is not going to be that strong, but then with a much tougher prior year comp. And I would be cautious into the winter. And that's a message we're communicating with our unions as well. There's lots of silly wage demands out there from ground handlers and airports, it's not that good out there. People are -- I think, there was still a lot of pent-up travel demand this summer, I think capacity will rise again into next summer, mainly because Ryanair will add another 50 aircraft for next summer as well.

因此，我對下半年的看法會更加悲觀，但我們仍然如此——我的意思是，我們將迎來一個非常強勁且非常盈利的一年。下半年我會保持謹慎。然後我們預計明年，如果油價繼續保持目前的水平，我們可以在數字上額外節省 10 億歐元。因此，中期前景非常強勁。飛機訂單意味著我們可以在未來十年內在歐洲增加 3 億乘客。我只是謹慎對待——我們的第一季度表現非常強勁。第二季度不會那麼強勁，但去年的比較會更加艱難。進入冬天我會保持謹慎。這也是我們正在與工會傳達的信息。地勤人員和機場有很多愚蠢的工資要求，但那裡的情況並不好。人們——我認為，今年夏天仍有大量被壓抑的旅行需求，我認為明年夏天運力將再次上升，主要是因為瑞安航空也將在明年夏天再增加 50 架飛機。

I would just be cautious. Strong Q1 reasonably good Q2, and then I would hold my breath to see what happens in the second half of the year. Eddie, do you want to give us an update on where we are with the kind of the pilots or wage settlements into our rising kind of profits.

我只是會保持謹慎。第一季度強勁，第二季度相當不錯，然後我會屏住呼吸，看看下半年會發生什麼。埃迪，你想向我們介紹一下我們的飛行員類型或工資結算對我們不斷增長的利潤的最新情況嗎？

Yes. I mean I'll just add just on to the fare side there that like don't forget like last year, there are like after the Ukraine invasion by Russia, like when we came into the summer into Q2, there were exceptional close-in fares last year as well, which are not going to be repeated. Just on the pilots, yes. I mean, our commitment was to stick with our people who were with us all the way through COVID when we were doing zero flying. And we put in emergency agreements at that stage. And we had pay reductions. Those pay reductions were restored earlier. You'll recall, towards the end of calendar year '22.

是的。我的意思是，我只想補充一下票價方面，不要忘記像去年一樣，就像俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭之後，就像我們進入第二季度的夏季一樣，去年也有特殊的近距離票價，不會重複。就飛行員而言，是的。我的意思是，我們的承諾是堅持與我們的員工一起度過新冠疫情，當我們進行零飛行時。我們在那個階段簽訂了緊急協議。我們還減薪了。這些減薪措施已於早些時候恢復。您會記得，在 22 日曆年年底。

In the case of pilots, what we get with other groups, there was -- with those extension of those deals, there was no pay increase in April and we had revisited that with a number of our pilot groups, and those agreements are now, in some cases, extended with a pay increase this April, obviously, which is feeding into the restoration where a year was brought forward. So like look at those. I'd echo what Michael said there outside of the sort of the pilot groups, particularly with third-party handlers and particularly in the U.K. where you've got inflation is at much higher rates and hitting people on those lower salaries, so there has been some good news on inflation recently. But again, we're growing, and we will always look to our competitive position in the market, and we've reacted twice by doing restoration early and also that flowed into April this year where we reengaged with unions in the major markets and have come to agreements with them.

就試點而言，我們與其他團體達成的協議是——隨著這些協議的延長，四月份沒有加薪，我們已經重新審視了我們與一些試點團體的情況，在某些情況下，這些協議現在在今年四月加薪，顯然，這正在促進提前一年的恢復。所以就像看看那些。我同意邁克爾在試點小組之外所說的話，特別是與第三方處理程序，特別是在英國，那裡的通貨膨脹率要高得多，並且對工資較低的人造成打擊，所以最近有一些關於通貨膨脹的好消息。但同樣，我們正在成長，我們將始終關注我們在市場中的競爭地位，我們已經做出了兩次反應，提前進行恢復，今年四月我們重新與主要市場的工會接觸並與他們達成協議。

I should say as well, we did have a strike by, I'd say, about 60% of our -- the Belgian pilots last weekend. We still run about 60% of our Belgian operations through both days. Now we would have preferred not, if they hadn't gone on strike, but if they want to go on strike, they're free to go and strike it's important, I think, too, that they understand that we can still run about 60% of our Belgian operations about -- on aircraft that are based outside of Belgium. We were heartened by the fact that about 1/3 of the Belgian pilots turned up for work, and we ran a significant proportion of the Belgian base schedule. There was no strike this weekend, they called another strike for next weekend.

我還應該說，上週末我們確實有大約 60% 的比利時飛行員罷工。這兩天我們仍在運營約 60% 的比利時業務。現在，如果他們沒有罷工，我們寧願不罷工，但如果他們想罷工，他們可以自由地進行罷工，我認為這也很重要，他們明白我們仍然可以在比利時境外的飛機上運營大約 60% 的比利時業務。令我們感到鼓舞的是，大約 1/3 的比利時飛行員來上班，而且我們執行了比利時基地航班計劃的很大一部分。這個週末沒有罷工，他們要求下週末再罷工。

But as we said to them all, look, you can have exactly the same kind of increase that we've agreed with the Italian pilots, the Spanish pilot unions, but you can't have something stupid. And they seem to have a kind of a view of life that Algium and Belgium is somehow different. It isn't. We will and are doing our best to be fair and work with our union partners and our people, both pilots, cabin crew, engineers, ground handlers. But we're not minded and nor are we going to fall over and concede some ludicrous pay increases just because we've had a strong Q1. Q2 is okay, and this winter could well be tough and challenging.

但正如我們對他們所有人所說的，你看，你可以得到與我們與意大利飛行員、西班牙飛行員工會同意的完全相同的增長，但你不能有愚蠢的事情。他們似乎有一種生活觀，阿爾吉姆和比利時有些不同。事實並非如此。我們將並且正在盡最大努力公平地與我們的工會夥伴和我們的員工（包括飛行員、機組人員、工程師、地勤人員）合作。但我們並不介意，也不會僅僅因為第一季度表現強勁就屈服並承認一些荒謬的加薪。第二季度還不錯，今年冬天可能會很艱難且充滿挑戰。

So as we have always done, if we have to take strikes, we'll take them. We'll try to avoid them as best we can, but again a disproportion amount to kind of PR coverage. I mean, the Belgian pilot strike is far less impactful to us than a French ATC strike. We canceled more flights on the day of a French ATC strike that we do on a Belgian pilot strike. So -- we are meeting with the Belgian pilot union again this week. We would hope to make some progress with them. But if they want to go on strike again next weekend, they can go on strike next weekend. We will work our way and manage our way around it. As we are with the -- I should also say the -- with the fires enrolled in Greece this weekend, it's important again to put that in some context, there have been forest fires that they were in the Algar this time last year.

因此，正如我們一直以來所做的那樣，如果我們必須罷工，我們就會採取罷工。我們會盡力避免它們，但同樣與公關報導的數量不成比例。我的意思是，比利時飛行員罷工對我們的影響遠不如法國空中交通管制罷工。法國空中交通管制罷工當天，我們取消的航班數量比比利時飛行員罷工還要多。因此，我們本週將再次與比利時飛行員工會會面。我們希望與他們一起取得一些進展。但如果他們想下週末再罷工的話，下週末就可以罷工。我們將按照自己的方式工作並管理。正如我們所面臨的——我還應該說——本週末希臘發生了火災，重要的是再次將這一點放在某種背景下，去年這個時候在阿爾加發生了森林火災。

Forest fires are a known phenomenon. They do appear to be getting worse. But in the case of Rhodes, there to the south of the island, most of the resorts and the airports are in the north of the island. We've seen no demand for passengers over the weekend seeking to cancel the flights to Rhodes. In fact, all of the passengers that were on Rhodes have return flights scheduled today, tomorrow, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So the kind of stupidity you get out of some of the media this weekend, are you canceling your fight to Rhodes? No, of course, we're not. A, because Rhodes Airport is open; and b, because we have a lots of passengers who are in Rhodes who wants to return from their holidays and there are more passengers who're still going out of the Rhodes. So it is the silly season the media tend to latch on to pictures of forest fires.

森林火災是眾所周知的現象。他們的情況似乎確實變得更糟了。但就羅德島而言，在島的南部，大多數度假村和機場都在島的北部。我們發現週末沒有乘客要求取消飛往羅得島的航班。事實上，所有在羅德島的乘客都有今天、明天、週二、週三、週四的返程航班。所以這個週末你從一些媒體那裡得到的那種愚蠢的信息是，你會取消與羅德島的比賽嗎？不，當然，我們不是。 A、因為羅德機場開放； b，因為我們有很多在羅德島的乘客想要結束假期返回，還有更多的乘客仍在離開羅德島。因此，這是媒體傾向於抓住森林火災圖片的愚蠢季節。

But when you're flying to 260 airports across Europe, are we seeing any changes in demand patterns, no. In fact, if anything, over the last 2 or 3 weeks, we've seen stronger demand ex Ireland than ex U.K. people trying to get the hell away from the unseasonably high rainfall we've had in Ireland and the U.K., which if anything, gives me even more confidence for sustained growth in Mediterranean holidays over the next decades as we roll to 300 million passengers a year.

但是，當您飛往歐洲 260 個機場時，我們是否看到需求模式有任何變化，沒有。事實上，如果說有什麼不同的話，那就是在過去的兩三周里，我們看到愛爾蘭以外的人比英國人的需求更強勁，他們試圖擺脫愛爾蘭和英國反常的高降雨量，這讓我對未來幾十年地中海假期的持續增長更有信心，因為我們每年的旅客數量將達到 3 億。

The next question comes from Gerald Castle from UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的杰拉爾德·卡斯爾。

I just want to question firstly on ancillary. They were up 4% per pack. Obviously, inflation is running higher than that. So are you sacrificing volume? Is there a mix impact or you're just not pricing as aggressively as maybe you can at the moment? And I guess linked on to that, you've said something about fair pricing during the current quarter, anything on ancillary pricing? And then just looking a little bit further ahead, you've got a number of environmental headwinds coming under Fit for '55.

我只想先問一下輔助問題。每包價格上漲 4%。顯然，通貨膨脹率高於這個數字。那麼你會犧牲體積嗎？是否存在混合影響，或者您只是沒有像目前那樣激進地定價？我想與此相關的是，您已經談到了本季度的公平定價，還有關於輔助定價的內容嗎？再往前看一點，您會發現 Fit for '55 會帶來許多環境阻力。

You've obviously got the ETS step down in free credit next year. And then you've got SAF of which I'd probably say you must be best of breed at 12.5% versus what the EU saying by 2030. But I guess, looking at that, are you worried about the cost advantage, especially given that you've also committed so much more than EU is asking under SAF even if it is the right thing to do for the environment.

顯然，ETS 明年將減少免費信貸。然後還有 SAF，我可能會說，與歐盟所說的到 2030 年相比，您必須達到 12.5% 的最佳水平。但我想，看看這一點，您是否擔心成本優勢，特別是考慮到您還承諾了比歐盟在 SAF 下要求的更多的東西，即使這對環境來說是正確的事情。

I'm going to ask Tracy to take the ancillary question. Neil, you might come in with some comments after. And then I'm going to ask Tom Fowler, our Director of sustainability with the environmental measures. So Tracy, over to you on ancillaries.

我將請特雷西回答輔助問題。尼爾，之後你可能會提出一些意見。然後我會向我們的可持續發展總監 Tom Fowler 詢問環境措施。特雷西，輔助材料就交給你了。

Yes. We've seen ancillaries increased by 4% from as you look over '23 Europe pretty much as we thought. We have done a lot -- but the 2 main drivers is on ceasing and priority boarding, where we've done a lot of work with Labs, where we've introduced dynamic pricing -- so I think we're very happy with what we see at the moment. So roughly that's 32% of total revenue. So pretty much obviously EUR 0.50, EUR 0.60 increase in ancillaries on the year.

是的。縱觀 23 年歐洲，我們發現輔助費用增長了 4%，與我們想像的差不多。我們做了很多工作，但兩個主要驅動因素是停止和優先登機，我們與實驗室做了很多工作，引入了動態定價，所以我認為我們對目前所看到的情況非常滿意。大約佔總收入的 32%。因此，今年輔助費用明顯增加了 0.50 歐元、0.60 歐元。

And Neil, can you add to that?

尼爾，你能補充一下嗎？

No, just (inaudible), we were quite clear. We made a big jump from EUR 19 a passenger to just under EUR 23 a passenger. We'd indicated EUR 0.50, EUR 0.60 increase, as Tracy just said there, we're pleased that we're achieving that some areas where we'd like to make a bit more. We're working further with Labs on the pricing models around ceasing and priority boarding, sees more we can do there. We're looking at a more detailed level on the onboard spend to see if there's more we can do on that. But we're pleased with how we're developing. It's aligned with what we had indicated we would do. And this is growth on top of a significant step-up over the past couple of years. And there's another year or two to go in the growth in ancillaries.

不，只是（聽不清），我們很清楚。我們從每位乘客 19 歐元大幅躍升至每位乘客不到 23 歐元。我們表示增加 0.50 歐元，增加 0.60 歐元，正如 Tracy 剛才所說，我們很高興我們在一些我們想要多做一點的領域實現了這一目標。我們正在與實驗室就停止和優先登機的定價模型進行進一步合作，看看我們可以在這方面做更多的事情。我們正在研究更詳細的機上支出，看看我們是否可以在這方面做更多的事情。但我們對我們的發展方式感到滿意。它與我們表示我們會做的事情是一致的。這是在過去幾年顯著進步的基礎上的增長。輔助產品的增長還需要一兩年的時間。

And Thomas, do you want to touch on environmental measures and their impact over the next 2 to 3 years?

托馬斯，您想談談環境措施及其在未來 2 到 3 年內的影響嗎？

Obviously the ETS is available and (inaudible) the free allowances, but it will impact everyone the same deployed into EU will lose their allowance in tariff. But what we already lots of taking in the current Gamechanger aircraft, which is 16% more fuel efficient. And we've also locked in the last 1 year, which will replace some of the 800 NGs will be 20% more fuel efficient. So I think on ETS soil, we'll obviously still give any cost of that is wrong fleet because everyone will be hit the same with that who enters EU. And then on the SAF, we set the 12.5% target, it is aggressive at twice the European mandate but the cost is an on weed to see production rise and like what can talk in the field employers. We won't see the premium we see today as we see production have to increase. So I don't think that the cost disadvantage will be that significant, as you may look at it today. So it's just going to be as we see a (inaudible).

顯然，碳排放交易體係是可用的，而且（聽不清）免費配額，但這將影響每個部署到歐盟的人，他們將失去關稅配額。但我們已經在當前的 Gamechanger 飛機上進行了很多嘗試，它的燃油效率提高了 16%。我們還鎖定了在過去 1 年更換 800 台 NG 中的部分燃油效率將提高 20% 的目標。因此，我認為在 ETS 土地上，我們顯然仍然會為錯誤的車隊付出任何代價，因為每個人都會受到與進入歐盟的人相同的打擊。然後在 SAF 上，我們設定了 12.5% 的目標，這是歐洲規定的兩倍，但成本是一個雜草，因為產量會增加，就像現場雇主可以談論的那樣。我們不會看到今天看到的溢價，因為我們看到產量必須增加。因此，我認為成本劣勢不會那麼嚴重，正如您今天所看到的那樣。所以它就會像我們看到的那樣（聽不清）。

Yes. And I would add to that, just if you take the environmental measure impact or James, over the -- Jarrod, over the next 5 years, we'll take delivery of another 100 Gamechangers, 4% more seats, 20% less -- 16% less fuel. And in that period, we'll take in the first 2 years of deliveries of the MAX 10, 28% more seats and 20% less fuel. Like, the technological revolution that's going on with the engines and their fuel consumption will more than fund any kind of environmental costs, the fuel savings here at gargantuan, particularly in marketplace in Europe where capacity will continue to be constrained over that 4- or 5-year period.

是的。我想補充一點，如果你考慮環境措施的影響，或者詹姆斯，在接下來的 5 年內，賈羅德，我們將交付另外 100 架遊戲規則改變者，增加 4% 的座位，減少 20%，減少 16% 的燃料。在此期間，我們將在前 2 年交付 MAX 10，座位數增加 28%，燃油減少 20%。例如，發動機及其燃料消耗正在進行的技術革命將不僅僅是為任何類型的環境成本提供資金，這裡的燃料節省是巨大的，特別是在歐洲市場，那裡的產能將在 4 到 5 年內繼續受到限制。

I think the real underlying story here that we should keep tacking back to is that the market in Europe has changed. Capacity is now constrained. It will remain constrained for another 4 or 5 years, if not out to 2030. The reason I wouldn't be quite as -- if there will be another crisis between now and 2030. I just don't know where -- when -- what it will be and where it will come from, but capacity is going to be meaningfully constrained.

我認為我們應該繼續討論的真正根本原因是歐洲市場已經發生了變化。現在容量受到限制。如果不是到 2030 年，它還將在未來 4 到 5 年內繼續受到限制。如果從現在到 2030 年之間再次出現危機，我不會這麼認為。我只是不知道它會在哪裡、何時、會來自哪裡，但容量將受到有意義的限制。

Europe is consolidating. Remember, that consolidation is being led by airlines like Lufthansa, IAG, whose average air fare is north of short-haul airfare is EUR 200. We're still continuing to expand our capacity in a marketplace that's constrained with aircraft that burn between 16% to 20% less fuel per seat with an average fare that in Q1 this year was only EUR 49. So I think we will -- fares will continue, I think, to modestly rise for the next 2 or 3 years in a constrained capacity environment.

歐洲正在整合。請記住，這一整合是由漢莎航空、IAG 等航空公司主導的，它們的平均機票價格高於短途機票 200 歐元。我們仍在繼續擴大我們的運力，因為市場上的飛機每座燃油消耗減少 16% 至 20%，而今年第一季度的平均票價僅為 49 歐元。因此，我認為我們的票價將在未來 2 到 3 年內繼續小幅上漲。在容量有限的環境中。

Our competitors will be under considerably more cost pressure than we are. They will drive fares up harder and faster. You only need to look at the German market this year where Germany is the market that has recovered least post COVID. it's only operating at about 75% to 80% of pre-COVID capacity and airfares have almost doubled in the German domestic marketplace, which is largely now a Lufthansa monopoly.

我們的競爭對手將承受比我們大得多的成本壓力。他們將更猛烈、更快地推高票價。你只需要看看今年的德國市場，德國是新冠疫情后恢復最少的市場。該公司的運營能力僅為新冠疫情爆發前的 75% 至 80% 左右，而德國國內市場的機票價格幾乎翻了一番，而德國國內市場目前主要由漢莎航空壟斷。

So I think what we're seeing in North America, which has been 5, 10 years of consolidated airlines with a reasonable pricing power and upward trend in fares is about to be repeated in Europe for the next decade.

因此，我認為我們在北美看到的情況，即已經有 5 到 10 年的合併航空公司，具有合理的定價能力和票價上漲趨勢，將在未來十年在歐洲重演。

The next question comes from Sathish Sivakumar.

下一個問題來自 Sathish Sivakumar。

I've got 2 questions. First is on the operational resilience. Obviously, you have invested in the resilience into this summer. So out of the KPI sector per day compared to this year versus last year? And do you see further scope for improvement as we go into the rest of the summer?

我有 2 個問題。首先是運營彈性。顯然，你已經在今年夏天的恢復力上進行了投資。那麼今年與去年相比每天的 KPI 部門情況如何？當我們進入夏季剩餘時間時，您認為還有進一步改進的空間嗎？

And then the second one is on the winter schedule. If I say you did flag that last year, you optimized your winter schedule with more weekends or taking some of the week day booking out and would you expect a similar profile to be followed this year in terms of your winter schedule, excluding the new markets that you're likely to launch?

第二個是在冬季計劃中。如果我說你去年確實指出了這一點，你通過更多的周末或在工作日預訂一些時間來優化你的冬季日程，你是否預計今年的冬季日程也會遵循類似的情況，不包括你可能推出的新市場？

You broke up (inaudible) so you want to commentary on scope for improvement? Is that a onetime performance is it?

你們分手了（聽不清）所以您想評論一下改進的範圍嗎？這是一次性表演嗎？

No, it's more about the operational resilience. Do you see more -- like do you see further need to invest to improve? like in terms of sector per day term?

不，更多的是關於運營彈性。您是否看到更多——比如您是否認為需要進一步投資來改進？就像每天的部門一樣？

Are you asking, do we need to invest further of Brazilians. Is that the question?

您是否在問，我們是否需要進一步投資巴西人？這是問題嗎？

Yes, yes, that's right.

是的，是的，沒錯。

Yes. Okay. I mean no, I don't. Like we have doubled up the ops control capacity and the 2 ops centers in Dublin and Warsaw. We now think we have ops capacity here for close to 300 million passengers a year. That has been significantly helpful, particularly on those weekends when we suffered significant French ATC strikes or disruptions we're able to recover much faster. We manage the crews much better. We call it the (inaudible) much better. So that has been significantly improved.

是的。好的。我的意思是不，我不。就像我們將行動控制能力和都柏林和華沙的兩個行動中心增加了一倍一樣。我們現在認為我們這裡的運營能力每年可滿足近 3 億乘客。這非常有幫助，特別是在那些週末，當我們遭受法國空中交通管制的嚴重罷工或中斷時，我們能夠更快地恢復。我們對船員的管理要好得多。我們稱之為（聽不清）更好。所以這已經得到了顯著的改善。

I don't see any further requirement for operating in that, although I would come back to what I said in an earlier question, I think that those heightened crew ratios will remain with us certainly for the next 2 or 3 years until we see European -- the European Commission take some action on improving ATC performance around Europe. And I would -- instead of that complete 20-year shambles of the single European Sky, we need more competition between ATC providers. We should let the efficient ones provide services where the inefficient ones can't. I think maybe I'll ask Eddie to comment on the optimization of the winter schedule in our plan for this year vis-a-vis last year, Eddie.

我認為在這方面沒有任何進一步的操作要求，儘管我會回到我在之前的問題中所說的內容，但我認為這些提高的機組人員比例肯定會在未來兩三年內繼續存在，直到我們看到歐洲 - 歐盟委員會採取一些行動來改善歐洲各地的空中交通管制績效。我認為，我們需要 ATC 提供商之間更多的競爭，而不是歐洲天空 20 年的混亂局面。我們應該讓高效者提供低效者無法提供的服務。我想也許我會請埃迪評論一下我們今年計劃中與去年相比的冬季賽程的優化，埃迪。

Yes. I mean if you look at the sort of proportion of what we did midweek, back in winter '19, it was 37% 35% winter '22, it will be 30% this winter. So that's probably as far as we're going to go on that. But that can -- and we're still growing sort of capacity just short of 10% there. But like we continue to sort of shake out that mid-week capacity as we continuously review route profitability. And there's only so much which you can optimize where you can't go much below 30% given the 5-4 roster that we have for pilot. So -- but like that's continuous dropping from 37% to 30% this winter.

是的。我的意思是，如果你看看我們周中所做的事情的比例，早在 19 年冬天，它是 37% 35%，22 年冬天，今年冬天將是 30%。我們可能就到此為止了。但這是可以的——而且我們的產能仍在增長，略低於 10%。但是，隨著我們不斷審查航線的盈利能力，我們將繼續擺脫周中的運力。考慮到我們有 5-4 名試點人員，您可以優化的內容就這麼多，不能低於 30%。所以，就像今年冬天從 37% 持續下降到 30% 一樣。

I think the only exception that would be obviously Albania where we're going to be very aggressive on pricing and capacity additions there. We're working closely with the Albanian government and the Albanian airports who I think feel a bit less down by the high fare incumbent who hasn't delivered any growth until we showed up and then obviously, if there's any opportunity or opportunity to return or reopen some air travel into Ukraine that we would add that capacity to the width. So that's not in our current plans, but we would add that almost regardless of the airfares. We are determined to be first and back into Ukraine, and we will invest heavily in the recovery of Ukrainian air travel once it's safe to do so, we're declared safe to do so.

我認為唯一的例外顯然是阿爾巴尼亞，我們將在定價和產能增加方面非常積極。我們正在與阿爾巴尼亞政府和阿爾巴尼亞機場密切合作，我認為他們對高票價的現任者感到不那麼沮喪，他們在我們出現之前沒有實現任何增長，然後顯然，如果有任何機會或機會返回或重新開放一些飛往烏克蘭的航空旅行，我們將增加運力的寬度。因此，這不在我們當前的計劃中，但我們幾乎會添加這一點，無論機票價格如何。我們決心首先回到烏克蘭，一旦安全，我們將大力投資恢復烏克蘭航空旅行，我們宣布這樣做是安全的。

The next question comes from Mark Simpson from Goodbody.

下一個問題來自 Goodbody 的馬克·辛普森 (Mark Simpson)。

Two questions. One for Neil on the balance sheet and managing the cash accumulation. I'm just wondering if you can take us through your thinking in terms of how you maximize returns or maybe match cash flow for future CapEx. And that's obviously going to be an increasing feature in the next couple of years.

兩個問題。尼爾負責資產負債表和管理現金積累。我只是想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下您對如何最大化回報或如何匹配未來資本支出的現金流的想法。顯然，這將成為未來幾年不斷增加的功能。

And then the other question for Tom, just on sustainability. You mentioned the sustainability report, the retrofitting of the 409 NG fleet. I'm just wondering how that is going in terms of the completion of that program.

然後是湯姆的另一個問題，就是關於可持續性。您提到了可持續發展報告、409 NG 機隊的改造。我只是想知道該計劃的完成情況如何。

Yes. Well, Mark, as you rightly pointed out there for the first time in a long time, our treasurer has now become a cost -- sorry, a profit center for us. We're operating net interest positive at the moment and likely to do so on a full year basis. So last year, I think we were negative about EUR 34 million on interest this year we will be positive, possibly up as high as EUR 30 million on interest this year. So we're managing our cash in a very conservative basis. We don't put it anywhere where we're not going to have sleepless nights in relation to it. So very conservatively managed.

是的。好吧，馬克，正如你長期以來第一次正確指出的那樣，我們的財務主管現在已經成為成本——抱歉，我們的利潤中心。目前我們的運營淨利息為正，並且全年可能也會如此。所以去年，我認為我們對 3400 萬歐元的利息持負數，今年我們將持積極態度，今年的利息可能高達 3000 萬歐元。因此，我們以非常保守的方式管理我們的現金。我們不會把它放在任何我們不會與之相關的不眠之夜的地方。所以管理得非常保守。

We obviously found a home for EUR 750 million of our cash in the middle of August, where we're paying down a maturing bond and that will obviously go ahead in the next couple of weeks. CapEx with another EUR 1.8 billion to go this year. And again, the assumption is that we will finance that out of our cash resources. Thereafter, it depends really on what's the cheapest form of financing for the group. I think for the next couple of years, cash will remain the cheapest form of financing, but we'll remain flexible whether that's going back to the bond markets, whether it's doing some job codes, which we haven't done for a number of years or visiting our friends in the unsecured or secured banking market. But cash is clearly the cheapest form of funding ourselves at the moment, and we're making a turn on the cash in the meantime as well.

顯然，我們在 8 月中旬找到了 7.5 億歐元現金的歸宿，我們正在償還到期債券，這顯然將在接下來的幾週內進行。今年資本支出還有 18 億歐元。同樣，我們的假設是我們將用我們的現金資源來融資。此後，這實際上取決於該集團最便宜的融資形式是什麼。我認為在接下來的幾年裡，現金仍將是最便宜的融資形式，但我們將保持靈活性，無論是回到債券市場，還是做一些我們已經很多年沒有做過的工作代碼，或者拜訪我們在無擔保或有擔保銀行市場的朋友。但現金顯然是目前最便宜的融資形式，同時我們也在利用現金。

I was saying I think you had to go back to December 2002 for it to be a profit center.

我是說我認為你必須回到 2002 年 12 月它才能成為利潤中心。

Yes. That was before I joined, Mark.

是的。那是在我加入之前，馬克。

And just on the same trinkets on the first year preference at the year-end and the plan is we'll install a liter winter during our maintenance program. So -- but hopefully, by the end of this year, 100 aircraft will have the (inaudible) on them and will improve that again next winter as we go through the year end or quarter at year-end.

就在年底的第一年偏好的相同小飾品上，計劃是我們將在維護計劃期間安裝一升冬季。所以，但希望到今年年底，100 架飛機將配備（聽不清），並在明年冬天當我們度過年底或年底季度時再次改進這一點。

We do 2 maintenance fees on MAX take a few days just to take it off and get it retrofitted to reinstall. So (inaudible) the defines winter.

我們對 MAX 收取了 2 筆維護費，花了幾天時間才將其取下並改裝以重新安裝。所以（聽不清）定義了冬天。

The next question comes from Stephen Furlong from Davy.

下一個問題來自戴維的斯蒂芬·弗隆。

Michael, most of my questions have been answered, but I just want to add 2 things quick. On SaaS, which just kind of seems to be important. I saw overnight IAG, we're investing in making an equity investment in the company. Would you consider vertically integrating? Or is it more just do deals or just work with your suppliers? That's the first question. Yes, I'll ask that one first.

邁克爾，我的大部分問題都已得到解答，但我只想快速添加兩件事。對於 SaaS，這似乎很重要。我隔夜看到IAG，我們正在投資對公司進行股權投資。您會考慮垂直整合嗎？或者只是做交易還是只是與供應商合作？這是第一個問題。是的，我會先問那個。

Okay. Honestly, the answer is no, but look, we would never say never. I mean the problem with investing with one supplier in via one geography is you've got to get the SaaS to the airport. And ultimately, that's why I'm still of the view that it will be the oil majors will be the ones who will be the only ones who actually have the capacity to produce SaaS in meaningful volume and then get it to the airport. There's no point in producing SaaS in Tralee or SaaS in Coffin, New Castle if we need it as 27 U.K. airports. But we would support IAG investing in somebody producing SaaS. But ultimately, we think the people who will supply SaaS in the appropriate volumes we need quickly and at the airports where we need it, will be the oil companies, which is why we've signed up SaaS supply agreement now with Shell, Nestle, ONG and Repsol to cover specific geographies across Spain, Austria, Germany, where else...

好的。老實說，答案是否定的，但是看，我們永遠不會說永遠不會。我的意思是，通過一個地區投資一家供應商的問題是，您必須將 SaaS 運送到機場。最終，這就是為什麼我仍然認為石油巨頭將是唯一真正有能力生產大量 SaaS 並將其運往機場的公司。如果我們需要 27 個英國機場，那麼在特拉利 (Tralee) 或紐卡斯爾 (New Castle) 科芬 (Coffin) 生產 SaaS 就沒有意義。但我們會支持 IAG 投資 SaaS 生產商。但最終，我們認為能夠在我們需要的機場快速提供所需數量的 SaaS 的人將是石油公司，這就是為什麼我們現在與殼牌、雀巢、ONG 和雷普索爾簽署了 SaaS 供應協議，以覆蓋西班牙、奧地利、德國等地的特定地區……

Holland, U.K., which and France, right? So I think that Michael's point going to see here when we look at the investments, they're doing it close, close to Heathrow, the main home whereas we've got 91 bases around Europe, trying to build supply chain there to keep the SaaS save and just prove the challenge is on the volume book. So the MOUs are more important for us rather than an investment in the facility.

荷蘭、英國、法國，對吧？因此，我認為，當我們考慮投資時，邁克爾的觀點將在這裡體現出來，他們正在靠近希思羅機場（主要基地）進行投資，而我們在歐洲各地擁有 91 個基地，試圖在那裡建立供應鏈，以保持 SaaS 的保存，並證明挑戰就在數量上。因此，諒解備忘錄對我們來說比對設施的投資更重要。

Yes. But we would endorse and support IAG strategy doing it. Whatever accelerates and maximizes, A, the production of SaaS and B, getting it to the airports, which is where we -- the only base we can uplift it is at airport, we would very much support and endorse.

是的。但我們會贊同並支持 IAG 戰略這樣做。無論什麼加速和最大化，A，SaaS 的生產，B，將其運送到機場，這就是我們——我們可以提升它的唯一基地是在機場，我們將非常支持和認可。

Yes. I was just wondering in EU are they doing anything in the context. It's more kind of regulatory stuff. But for example, I know you talked about overflight things like either ownership rules or another thing would be the imbalance in terms of long-haul, short-haul, which obviously long-haul's not part of ETS. I know they have (inaudible) I mean -- do you see any chance that over the next couple of years? Is there any movement in those two items?

是的。我只是想知道在歐盟他們是否在這方面做了任何事情。這更像是監管方面的事情。但例如，我知道您談到了飛越問題，例如所有權規則或其他問題，即長途、短程方面的不平衡，而長途顯然不屬於 ETS 的一部分。我知道他們（聽不清）我的意思是——你認為在接下來的幾年裡有這樣的機會嗎？這兩件事有什麼動靜嗎？

Juliusz, do you want to take this give us an update on the regulatory developments, please?

Juliusz，您願意向我們介紹一下監管進展的最新情況嗎？

Stephen, on ownership and control, my sense today is that we are not going to see a significant improvement in that area for the next 12 to 18 months. I think we need to wait for the new commission in Brussels in the autumn of '24 and then a further improvement in the relationship between the EU and the U.K.

斯蒂芬，關於所有權和控制權，我今天的感覺是，在接下來的 12 到 18 個月內，我們不會看到該領域出現重大改進。我認為我們需要等待24年秋天在布魯塞爾成立的新委員會，然後等待歐盟和英國之間關係的進一步改善。

On overflight, I see increased appetite for action in this area. You may have seen in the media that Michael personally delivered over 1 million signatures under our petition to President of European Commission Ursula von der Leyen. She unfortunately wasn't able to be in her office at morning, but maybe next time when we bring here the next million signatures, perhaps she will be there. But on the first of June, the day after the petition was delivered, there was a transport counsel in Brussels and transport ministers from Italy, Spain and a few other countries spoke very strongly about the need to protect the overflights. And clearly, those comments were addressed at the representative of France.

在飛越領空時，我發現人們對這一領域採取行動的興趣有所增加。您可能在媒體上看到，邁克爾親自在我們向歐盟委員會主席烏蘇拉·馮·德·萊恩 (Ursula von der Leyen) 提交的請願書上遞交了超過 100 萬個簽名。不幸的是，她早上無法去她的辦公室，但也許下次當我們把下百萬個簽名帶到這裡時，也許她會在那裡。但在 6 月 1 日，即請願書遞交後的第二天，布魯塞爾有一位交通顧問，來自意大利、西班牙和其他一些國家的交通部長非常強烈地表達了保護飛越航班的必要性。顯然，這些評論是針對法國代表提出的。

We didn't have much to say on the day but that to me was a significant milestone in terms of that particular difficult issue. When it comes to other regulatory issues, I mean, obviously, on the environment, you have actually highlighted the significant imbalance in the treatment of short-haul versus long-haul operations. But it is important to remember that ETS is only restricted to intra-European flights until 2026. And after that, it would automatically extend to flights that go outside Europe, and a specific decision will be required of the European Parliament and the Council to continue the restriction to intra EU and I just can't imagine in the context of the incremental debate that's ongoing in Brussels that the parliament, the same parliament, which wants to be seen to be greener and greener every year, will continue to vote for the restriction of the ETS to enter Ukraine flights only. My sense is that ETS will have to, in the next few years be extended to apply to extra EU flights also.

那天我們沒有太多話要說，但對我來說，就這個特殊的困難問題而言，這是一個重要的里程碑。當談到其他監管問題時，我的意思顯然是在環境方面，您實際上強調了短途航班與長途航班處理方面的嚴重不平衡。但重要的是要記住，ETS 只限於歐洲內部航班，直到 2026 年。之後，它將自動擴展到歐洲以外的航班，歐洲議會和理事會需要做出具體決定，以繼續對歐盟內部的限制。在布魯塞爾正在進行的不斷增加的辯論的背景下，我無法想像議會，這個希望每年變得越來越環保的議會，將繼續投票支持限制 ETS 僅進入烏克蘭航班。我的感覺是，ETS 必須在未來幾年內擴展到適用於額外的歐盟航班。

The next question comes from Ruairi Cullinane from RBC Capital Markets.

下一個問題來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場的 Ruairi Cullinane。

I was wondering if there's anything you could share about your limited Q3 visibility in terms of how well you're booked in terms of load factors or fares? And then secondly, you made some interesting comments about the terms of impact of consolidation earlier in the call and having clearly some parts of Europe become more consolidated over the pandemic. Are you seeing any better pricing power or anything like that in those markets now?

我想知道您是否可以分享有關您在第三季度有限的可見性方面的信息，即您在載客率或票價方面的預訂情況？其次，您在電話會議早些時候就整合的影響條款發表了一些有趣的評論，並且顯然歐洲的某些地區在大流行中變得更加整合。您現在在這些市場上是否看到了更好的定價能力或類似的東西？

Your line wasn't great, but I'll try. Q3 visibility. Look, we have very little. At the moment, our forward books in Q3 are between 10% and 15%. So it's nothing. And that's through October, November, December. Q4 is less than 4%. So we are where we are. We're at this stage every year. It's a bit unfortunate that our year-end runs to the end of the winter season, but it is what it is that we have effectively zero Q3 visibility. And as I've said repeated before, I would expect some -- the impact of rising interest rates, consumer price inflation to be hitting consumer spending and the kind of discretionary (inaudible) city break, the Christmas market might be a little bit weaker this winter. And again, that feeds back to why we won't blindly chase only 185 million passengers. We're going to cut the midweek capacities, we'll run the weekend, stuff through the winter. And in fact, we finished up at 183 million passengers or we finished up at 183.2 million passengers, it will be what it will be.

你的台詞不太好，但我會嘗試。第三季度能見度。你看，我們擁有的很少。目前，我們第三季度的遠期預訂在 10% 到 15% 之間。所以這沒什麼。整個十月、十一月、十二月都是如此。第四季度低於4%。所以我們就在現在的位置。我們每年都會處於這個階段。有點不幸的是，我們的年底一直持續到冬季結束，但事實是我們第三季度的能見度實際上為零。正如我之前重複說過的那樣，我預計，由於利率上升、消費者價格通脹將打擊消費者支出，以及隨意（聽不清）的城市休息，今年冬天的聖誕市場可能會有點疲軟。這再次說明了為什麼我們不會盲目地只追逐 1.85 億乘客。我們將削減周中的運力，我們將在周末運行，整個冬天都運行。事實上，我們最終的乘客量為 1.83 億人次，或者我們最終的乘客量為 1.832 億人次，結果就是這樣。

The impact of consolidation, I think you're seeing pricing power around the piece, generally. If you look at all of the reporting from the airlines from Lufthansa to Air France to easyJet last to us today we're all seeing -- reporting a similar situation, strong Q1 pricing, all I would highlighted in our case, it was due to a very weak Q1 pricing last year. Q2 is well booked. We think Q2 fares are up by a double-digit percentage, although in my case, it will be low double digits. That is the reflection of pricing power. Now I think it's -- that's not so much consolidation. I would drive -- a lot of that is down to fit that Antalya emerged out of COVID only 50% of the capacity they had going into it. GAP of only 60% of the capacity they had pre-COVID.

整合的影響，我認為您通常會看到圍繞該產品的定價能力。如果你看看今天從漢莎航空到法航再到易捷航空的所有航空公司的報告，我們都會看到——報告了類似的情況，強勁的第一季度定價，我在我們的案例中強調的所有內容，這是由於去年第一季度的定價非常疲弱。 Q2 已經預訂滿了。我們認為第二季度的票價上漲了兩位數百分比，儘管就我而言，這將是低兩位數的百分比。這就是定價能力的體現。現在我認為這並不是什麼整合。我會開車——這很大程度上取決於安塔利亞從新冠疫情中恢復過來的能力只有他們進入時的50%。缺口僅為新冠疫情爆發前產能的 60%。

Lufthansa are still only operating at about 85% of their pre-COVID capacity. So you have all of the legacy guys across Europe constraining short-haul capacity.

漢莎航空的運營能力仍僅為新冠疫情爆發前的 85% 左右。因此，整個歐洲的所有傳統人士都在限制短途運力。

And there is no doubt this summer that the transatlantic inbound has been very strong, and you're seeing the Asian traffic begin to recover. I think next summer, but in S '24, we'll be closer to 100% of the pre-COVID short-haul capacity, but you'll still have another year of recovery of the Asian inbound. Maybe the transatlantic will be quite as strong in S '24 as it was in S '23. But generally speaking, it is very difficult must to foresee there continue to be constrained short-haul capacity in Europe and meaningfully -- some degree of meaningful pricing power in the system, particularly during the 2 peak -- during the 2 summer quarters. I think the winter quarters will always be a bit more difficult and a bit harder to predict.

毫無疑問，今年夏天跨大西洋入境旅客量非常強勁，而且您會看到亞洲的客流量開始恢復。我認為明年夏天，但在 24 世紀，我們將接近 100% 的新冠疫情前的短途運力，但亞洲入境航班仍將恢復一年。也許跨大西洋在 24 世紀和 23 世紀一樣強大。但總的來說，很難預見到歐洲的短途運力將繼續受到限制，並且在第二個夏季季度期間，系統中具有一定程度的有意義的定價能力，特別是在第二個高峰期間。我認為冬季季度總是會更困難一些，也更難以預測。

But that consolidation will continue. I think when they've taken out what's left of (inaudible), when CAP has been consolidated, somebody will turn to -- I think there's easyJet is clearly a target for, I would say, consolidation the Scandinavian Airlines, which are loss-making heroically loss-making, SAS and Norwegian may well be a target for consolidation. And ultimately, then somebody will have a look at Wizz, if it's not Lufthansa, reestablishing some eastward operations, their expansion into the Middle East may well encourage an investment from Middle East ownership, who are all talking a big story about growth and airline growth, but constrained by capacity. Wizz at least has access to aircraft. They're not very cheap and the pricing is very expensive, but at least it does have access to aircraft. And they would be far better deployed in the Middle East where at least they're competing with similar high-fare airlines rather than blowing their brains out front to compete here in Europe or in Central or Eastern Europe where a really low for airlines like Ryanair, where it's the only master is a low-fare airline.

但這種整合仍將繼續。我認為，當他們拿出剩下的東西（聽不清），當 CAP 被整合時，有人會轉向——我認為易捷航空顯然是整合的目標，我想說的是，斯堪的納維亞航空正在虧損，英勇虧損，北歐航空和挪威航空很可能成為整合的目標。最終，有人會關注威茲，如果不是漢莎航空重新建立一些向東業務，他們向中東的擴張很可能會鼓勵中東所有權的投資，他們都在談論增長和航空公司增長的大故事，但受到運力的限制。威茲至少可以使用飛機。它們不是很便宜，定價也很貴，但至少它確實可以使用飛機。而且他們最好部署在中東，至少他們可以與類似的高票價航空公司競爭，而不是在歐洲或中歐或東歐競爭，那裡的票價對於瑞安航空這樣的航空公司來說非常低，在那裡它唯一的主人是一家低票價航空公司。

The next question comes from Conor Dwyer from Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的康納·德懷爾。

So the first question is just back to the passenger numbers. Could you give some color maybe on phasing of the seat growth that gets you back down to that 183.5 million? So scheduled as you grow in Q2 at about 11%, but that seems a bit high now, maybe to the high single digits in the September quarter and then maybe down to mid- to high single digits in H2. Interested to get your thoughts on how you're planning to grow that there.

所以第一個問題又回到了乘客數量。您能否對座位增長的階段性進行一些說明，使座位數回落至 1.835 億？因此，預計第二季度的增長率約為 11%，但現在看來有點高，可能會在 9 月份季度達到高個位數，然後可能在下半年下降到中高個位數。有興趣了解您計劃如何在那裡發展它的想法。

And then secondly, lots of talk of M&A, and obviously your own growing cash balance. So I'm just wondering, would you ever consider doing large M&A in the space? You obviously always talk about growing organically, but it's quite a significant cash balance building up there in the next few years.

其次，有很多關於併購的討論，顯然還有你自己不斷增長的現金餘額。所以我只是想知道，您會考慮在該領域進行大型併購嗎？顯然，您總是談論有機增長，但未來幾年將積累相當可觀的現金餘額。

Thanks, Conor. I can't really help you like, we're going to take down the full year numbers from 185 to 183.5. You'll take a bit off every month for the next 6 or 7 or to the end of the year. Most of that, we lost 300,000, 400,000 passengers in April or in April, May and June, 300,000 in July, and then there we'll have to shape a bit of September and October, but I'm not getting down to the monthly traffic numbers here. It's not a significant movement, but it is a movement.

謝謝，康納。我真的幫不了你，我們要把全年的數字從 185 減少到 183.5。在接下來的 6、7 個月或到年底，你每個月都會稍微休息一下。其中大部分，我們在 4 月或 4 月、5 月和 6 月損失了 30 萬、40 萬乘客，7 月損失了 30 萬乘客，然後我們將不得不在 9 月和 10 月進行一些調整，但我不會在這裡詳細討論每月的交通數據。這不是一個重大的運動，但它是一個運動。

Large-scale M&A, I would say it's highly unlikely. We tend to avoid large-scale M&A. You're generally inheriting somebody else's problems. I cannot foresee. And also, I think given our size, it is very easy for the legacy carriers like Lufthansa, Air France and BA to mobilize or to lobby against Ryanair M&A and given that we -- with the aircraft orders we have in place now, we can grow organically to 300 million passengers a year. Frankly, I don't really see why we would want to engage in M&A.

大規模的併購，我想說這是不太可能的。我們傾向於避免大規模併購。你通常會繼承別人的問題。我無法預見。而且，我認為，考慮到我們的規模，漢莎航空、法國航空和英國航空等傳統航空公司很容易動員或遊說反對瑞安航空的併購，而且考慮到我們——憑藉我們現在擁有的飛機訂單，我們每年可以有機增長到 3 億乘客。坦白說，我真的不明白為什麼我們要進行併購。

We have in the past done 2 deals we did Buzz originally back in Stansted in the early Northeast, where they had to about 10% or 15% of the slots in Stansted we thought they were -- we wanted access to the slot. And then we did a little bit with Lauda 3 or 4 years ago pre-COVID in Vienna. Both of them were painful bloody experiences, although they've been validated over the longer term by building up very strong positions in Stansted and in Vienna Airport.

我們過去曾做過兩筆交易，我們最初是在東北部早期的斯坦斯特德做Buzz的，他們擁有斯坦斯特德大約10%或15%的席位，我們認為他們是——我們想要獲得該席位。三四年前，新冠疫情爆發之前，我們在維也納與勞達做了一些工作。這兩起事件都是痛苦而血腥的經歷，儘管它們通過在斯坦斯特德和維也納機場建立非常強大的地位而得到了長期驗證。

But when you run a very efficient, highly profitable, low-cost operation, we don't have management resources to deploy into large-scale M&A. We might do some smaller stuff kind of add-ons, but they'll be very small and I would say insignificant. Eddie, or Neil anything you want to give your personal opinions on that going forward?

但是，當您進行非常高效、高利潤、低成本的運營時，我們沒有管理資源來部署大規模併購。我們可能會做一些較小的附加組件，但它們會非常小，我會說微不足道。 Eddie 或 Neil 對於未來的發展有什麼個人看法嗎？

That much prefer to, on a personal level, grow organically for lesser reason. But yes, I mean, remember the Buzz integration, the original -- so the KLM offshoot back in 2003, and now they're obviously, to a lesser extent, out it takes significant management time. We have a large aircraft order. We have 2 years or 18 months to sort of be a (inaudible)gap between the next and it's just better from a management perspective to be doing that in a linear fashion rather than deploying resources.

在個人層面上，他們更願意出於較少的原因進行有機增長。但是，是的，我的意思是，請記住最初的 Buzz 集成，即 2003 年荷航的分支，現在他們顯然在較小程度上需要大量的管理時間。我們有一份大飛機訂單。我們有 2 年或 18 個月的時間（聽不清），從管理的角度來看，以線性方式做到這一點比部署資源更好。

But we would actually encourage competitors to keep consolidating because it's (inaudible). I mean, I think the real challenge, and they will all deny it. But the real challenge for easyJet and Wizz and some of these others is actually, as Ryanair continues to expand into those marketplaces, there's less and less of an ability for those guys to compete with us. And if you're not going to grow, you're going to have to find M&A is the only way forward. I mean I continue to believe that in the medium to longer term, Europe and consolidating to 4 very large airline groups, which would be Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, IAG, and. us. And Neil, sorry, I cut across -- I don't know that is Tracy as in the past number.

但我們實際上會鼓勵競爭對手繼續整合，因為這是（聽不清）。我的意思是，我認為真正的挑戰，他們都會否認。但對於易捷航空和威茲航空以及其他一些公司來說，真正的挑戰實際上是，隨著瑞安航空繼續向這些市場擴張，這些公司與我們競爭的能力越來越弱。如果你不打算成長，你將不得不發現併購是唯一的出路。我的意思是，我仍然相信，從中長期來看，歐洲將合併為 4 個非常大的航空集團，即漢莎航空、法國航空、荷蘭皇家航空、國際航空集團和。我們。尼爾，抱歉，我插話了——我不知道那是特雷西，就像過去的號碼一樣。

I was just going to say that on the M&A, where we play a role, Conor, is actually on the remedy. So as that consolidation that Michael is talking about takes place, we will be in there where there's competition overlaps and we'll operate on that basis. As long as we can continue to buy aircraft at very attractive levels, and we've locked away a decade of growth with our latest aircraft order, I think that's the best way for Ryanair to deliver value to our shareholders.

我只是想說，在併購中，我們發揮的作用，康納，實際上是在採取補救措施。因此，當邁克爾所說的整合發生時，我們將處於競爭重疊的地方，並且我們將在此基礎上開展業務。只要我們能夠繼續以非常有吸引力的水平購買飛機，並且我們通過最新的飛機訂單鎖定了十年的增長，我認為這就是瑞安航空為股東創造價值的最佳方式。

Tracy, anything on passenger numbers?

特雷西，有關於乘客人數的信息嗎？

On the passenger numbers, with that question. It's probably more weighted towards the second half of the year because we've had significant growth in H2 last year.

關於乘客數量，帶著這個問題。由於去年下半年我們取得了顯著增長，因此下半年的權重可能更大。

The next question comes from Alex Paterson from Pillhunt.

下一個問題來自 Pillhunt 的 Alex Paterson。

Yes, you won a lawsuit last week in Ireland against on the beach. If I remember correctly, your objection to OTA selling seats has been running for many years. I think the legal cases date back to 2010 at least, but they continue to sell your seats. So I don't know if you can say what's your sort of objective? Is it to stop them selling seats? Is it to only let them do so through a commercial agreement? And what are the financial implications for you of achieving that?

是的，您上週在愛爾蘭贏得了一場針對海灘的訴訟。如果我沒記錯的話，你們對 OTA 銷售座位的反對已經持續了很多年。我認為這些法律案件至少可以追溯到 2010 年，但他們仍在繼續出售你的席位。所以我不知道你能否說一下你的目標是什麼？是為了阻止他們賣座位嗎？難道只能通過商業協議讓他們這麼做嗎？實現這一目標對您的財務影響是什麼？

Eddie and maybe Neil can add to this. Might give -- start with a couple of examples of why we object to the nonlicensed screen scrapers and we already licensed screen scrapers.

埃迪和尼爾也許可以補充這一點。可能會給出 - 首先舉幾個例子來說明為什麼我們反對未經許可的屏幕抓取工具，而我們已經獲得了許可的屏幕抓取工具。

I mean you have to sort of complete disconnect out there that screen scrapers are out there saying they're providing a service. They're not providing any service. And what they do is that in the vast majority of cases, scrap our website, tell fares in a lot of cases, like huge markups, not just on the fares, but on ancillaries and flip the payment methods and then flip the contact addresses meaning that we're not able to contact passengers, not able to process refunds and then the OTA disappear over the horizon. no customer service whatsoever, and people cut in the middle and they cut in the middle because they're not able to access their bookings because nowadays, you need to have even access your booking, you need your e-mail address, you need your reference number.

我的意思是，你必須完全脫離那些屏幕抓取工具聲稱他們正在提供服務的情況。他們不提供任何服務。他們所做的是，在絕大多數情況下，廢棄我們的網站，在很多情況下告訴票價，比如巨額加價，不僅在票價上，而且在輔助設施上，並翻轉支付方式，然後翻轉聯繫地址，這意味著我們無法聯繫乘客，無法處理退款，然後 OTA 就消失在地平線上。沒有任何客戶服務，人們在中間插隊，他們在中間插隊，因為他們無法訪問他們的預訂，因為現在，你甚至需要訪問你的預訂，你需要你的電子郵件地址，你需要你的參考號。

So like this is just like highway of robbery abandonment of customers and the difficulty in trying to actually provide a service and particularly in times of disruption. And of course, it's the sharp end when it comes to disruption. So they don't provide a service at all and then sort of dump all the customer service fulfillment and without the customer having any information in order to access their bookings. So we continuously from a technological point of view, try to find a way to identify these bookings in advance so that they can get through. But like there is no agreement with them. So we're not running a charity anytime soon. And the only way that these companies remain in business is by putting on supplemental charges and then abandoning those customers.

因此，這就像搶劫高速公路、拋棄客戶以及嘗試實際提供服務的困難，特別是在中斷時期。當然，當談到顛覆時，這是最尖銳的。因此，他們根本不提供服務，然後放棄所有客戶服務履行，並且客戶沒有任何信息來訪問他們的預訂。所以我們不斷地從技術的角度，試圖找到一種方法來提前識別這些預訂，以便它們能夠通過。但好像與他們沒有達成協議。所以我們短期內不會經營慈善機構。這些公司繼續營業的唯一方法就是收取附加費用，然後放棄這些客戶。

I mean this is the only still to be the only form of Internet piracy that hasn't yet been tackled by the consumer agencies and we're astonished that the failure of the Italian consumer agency, the Spanish consumer agency, the U.K. consumer agencies will not tackle this issue. Their business models can only survive if they somehow scan a consumer for either a hidden charge or to persuade me buying a handling fee or some sort of fee then just scraping our inventory. And we have a very good example of the last week. We've passengers now calling us up asking about sites to Rhodes, we don't know who they are. They've a booking made through some screen scraper people in Rhodes are calling the airline, what the -- we don't have any of your details.

我的意思是，這是消費者機構尚未解決的唯一一種互聯網盜版形式，我們感到驚訝的是，意大利消費者機構、西班牙消費者機構和英國消費者機構的失敗都無法解決這個問題。他們的商業模式只有以某種方式掃描消費者是否存在隱藏費用，或者說服我購買手續費或某種費用，然後清空我們的庫存，才能生存。上週我們有一個很好的例子。現在有乘客打電話給我們詢問前往羅德島的站點，我們不知道他們是誰。他們通過一些屏幕抓取工具進行了預訂，羅德島的人打電話給航空公司，什麼 - 我們沒有您的任何詳細信息。

We have a fake e-mail address. We have a fake payment account and the only reason we will fake payment address and our e-mail address and a fake payment account is because these Internet pirates don't want us to communicate with the passenger because the past you will find out that they've been overcharged (inaudible) will be over charged. Like it is extraordinary that the consumer agencies continue to sit on their ar**s and failed to deal with this. If any airline behaved or priced or behaved the way these OTAs had the consumers be all over them like a rash. And we continue to (inaudible).

我們有一個假電子郵件地址。我們有一個假支付賬戶，我們偽造支付地址和電子郵件地址以及假支付賬戶的唯一原因是這些網絡盜版者不希望我們與乘客溝通，因為過去你會發現他們被多收費了（聽不清）。消費者機構繼續坐視不理，未能解決這一問題，這真是非同尋常。如果任何一家航空公司的行為、定價或行為方式與這些 OTA 一樣，那麼消費者就會像皮疹一樣對它們產生興趣。我們繼續（聽不清）。

So you want to stop them selling your seats entirely.

所以你想阻止他們完全出售你的座位。

No. No, no, no. No. We want them to stop misselling our seats entirely. We already licensed this -- we licensed a significant number of OTAs or travel agents where they signed up an agreement in which they promised it, they will only quote out the fares, the known fares will be quoted. We'll have the correct cap focus or e-mails. The booking will be made directly on ryanair.com and we will have direct access. What we're trying to stop is the misselling the anti-consumer pricing and the abandonment of the consumers, which is what happens with all these guys, when the s**t hits the fan like it does in Rhodes or it did during COVID.

不不不不。不。我們希望他們完全停止錯誤銷售我們的座位。我們已經獲得了這一許可——我們向大量 OTA 或旅行社授予了許可，他們簽署了一份協議，並承諾，他們只會報出票價，已知的票價才會被報出。我們將有正確的上限焦點或電子郵件。預訂將直接在 ryanair.com 上進行，我們將可以直接訪問。我們試圖阻止的是反消費者定價的誤傳和消費者的拋棄，這就是所有這些人所發生的事情，當像在羅德島或新冠疫情期間那樣，像在羅德島那樣，發生在球迷身上的事情時。

Understood. And does this lawsuit will help you to do that?

明白了。這次訴訟會幫助你做到這一點嗎？

Yes. Juliusz, do you want to add.

是的。 Juliusz，你想補充一下嗎？

Yes. Look, this win last week was on a procedural issue on appeal. So the case is not over, it will continue for another 2 years, maybe 3 with appeals. It was an important win, but it's not over.

是的。看，上週的這場胜利是關於上訴的程序問題。所以這個案子還沒有結束，還會再持續2年，也許3年上訴。這是一場重要的勝利，但比賽還沒有結束。

I mean we have numbers of cases here where we get -- we've an injunction I probably get described. I won't name them, but we have an injunction in our -- court feature against one OTA and they stopped selling through, say, a Swedish share -- Swedish kind of website and next day, they open up an Austrian website. And then we go -- we bagasse they open up Austrian website and they open with a Polish website and claim that it's something different now, that was that the injunction only get like there are a bunch of (expletive)ing pirates. It wouldn't be tolerated in any other consumer-facing industry.

我的意思是，我們這裡有很多案例，我們可能會得到描述，我們有一個禁令。我不會透露他們的名字，但我們在法庭上針對一家在線旅行社發布了一項禁令，他們停止通過瑞典股票等瑞典網站進行銷售，第二天，他們開設了一個奧地利網站。然後我們就開始了——他們打開了奧地利網站，他們打開了一個波蘭網站，並聲稱現在有所不同，那就是禁令只會像有一群（咒罵的）海盜一樣。這是任何其他面向消費者的行業都不會容忍的。

And yet, the useless consumer agencies all across Europe and the European Commission, and we brought it, we have submitted a dossier of overcharging, of misselling, of mismanagement and nothing happens. So we'll keep fighting here. And Ryanair is the poster child for this because in most cases, we have the lowest fares in every marketplace.

然而，歐洲各地無用的消費者機構和歐盟委員會，我們帶來了，我們提交了一份關於過度收費、銷售不當、管理不善的檔案，但什麼也沒發生。所以我們會在這裡繼續戰鬥。瑞安航空就是這方面的典範，因為在大多數情況下，我們的票價在每個市場都是最低的。

So the reason they want to scrape our fares is that actually, while they're levying a kind of a hidden handling fee are flipping the passenger at the point of payment for a higher fare than they've quoted. The package still looks reasonably cheap compared to the higher fares of other airlines. So it's -- until we can get the consumer agencies to wake up and stop this Internet piracy, these guys provide absolutely no service whatsoever except misselling or charging people inflated airfares and hidden handling fees.

因此，他們想要削減我們票價的原因是，實際上，雖然他們徵收某種隱藏的手續費，但在付款時卻以高於他們報價的票價欺騙了乘客。與其他航空公司的較高票價相比，該套餐看起來仍然相當便宜。所以，在我們能讓消費者機構醒悟並阻止這種互聯網盜版之前，這些人除了錯誤銷售或向人們收取虛高的機票價格和隱藏的手續費之外，絕對不提供任何服務。

Sorry, Michael, I'm just going to cut in there, Neil here. I need to drop off at this stage. Thanks very much, everybody.

抱歉，邁克爾，我想插話一下，尼爾。我需要在這個階段下車。非常感謝大家。

We'll keep going for the say, 10, 15 minutes, say we have 3 more questions. So let's take all those.

我們將繼續進行 10、15 分鐘，假設我們還有 3 個問題。那麼讓我們接受所有這些。

The next question is from Neil Glynn from AIR Control Tower.

下一個問題來自空中控制塔台的尼爾·格林。

If I could ask, firstly, on Ryanair Labs. I understand headcount has been growing strongly. I'm just interested in your take Michael, on how you expect Lab's contribution to evolve in helping ancillaries as well as operational performance over the next few years as you continue to grow? And then second question, pre-pandemic, you obviously launched the multi ALC, the multi-airline strategy. We're obviously quite some way along since then now. And I'm just interested in your take in terms of how that multi-AOC strategy is actually contributing today and what more we could expect from it in the future because I don't think there's been too much mention of it over recent quarters, at least.

首先，我可以在瑞安航空實驗室詢問。據我所知，員工人數一直在強勁增長。我只是對您的看法感興趣，邁克爾，您希望隨著您的不斷發展，未來幾年實驗室在幫助輔助設備和運營績效方面的貢獻將如何發展？第二個問題，在大流行之前，您顯然啟動了多 ALC，即多航空公司戰略。從那時起我們顯然已經取得了很大進展。我只是對您的看法感興趣，即多 AOC 戰略在今天實際上如何做出貢獻，以及我們將來可以對它抱有什麼期望，因為我認為至少在最近幾個季度沒有太多提及它。

Okay. Maybe, Eddie, since you're kind of leading the labs contribution, you might take us through what you see with the Labs their contribution to date and what the head accounts will rise to and then I'll give the multi-AOC strategy.

好的。也許，埃迪，既然你是實驗室貢獻的領導者，你可能會帶我們了解一下你所看到的實驗室迄今為止的貢獻以及主要帳戶將上升到什麼程度，然後我將給出多 AOC 策略。

Yes. I think we'll be heading towards a headcount of just short of 1,000 in Labs. And if you look at just very broad brush figures, the most important part of what Labs do is on infrastructure and security, cybersecurity and when you take those people out on the -- what's left of there, in my mind, it's broadly broken into 50% of those working on scheduled revenue development and ancillary revenue development -- and then you've got the other part of the business, particularly is going to come more in focus as we grow with the MAX 10 order because we're not going to be able to add people on at the head office level to support that in a linear fashion. And what you have is that you got Labs are developing all sorts of support systems for pilots, cabin crew and engineers, like things like eTechlog, where you take all that paper off the aircraft, where you've got flight planning iPads for pilots and devices for cabin crew where you're communicating things that are happening during the day.

是的。我認為我們實驗室的員工人數將接近 1,000 人。如果你看一下非常廣泛的數字，實驗室所做的最重要的部分是基礎設施和安全、網絡安全，當你把這些人排除在外時——在我看來，剩下的人大致分為50%從事預定收入開發和輔助收入開發的人——然後你就得到了業務的其他部分，尤其是隨著我們隨著MAX 10訂單的增長而變得更加受到關注，因為我們無法在頭部增加人員辦公室級別以線性方式支持這一點。實驗室正在為飛行員、機組人員和工程師開發各種支持系統，例如 eTechlog 之類的系統，您可以在其中取下飛機上的所有文件，為飛行員提供飛行計劃 iPad，為機組人員提供飛行計劃設備，讓您可以在其中交流白天發生的事情。

So on an operational level, like they would have been supporting the operations control center here as well in running resilience on rosters so that when you do hit -- when you do hit really bad days, they can do that in real time, and it takes that sort of China syndrome out of it where pilots and cabin crew and if you've got sort of 150 people trying to contact a call center, you can never have that amount of people there. So you got to solve the problems before they happen. And that's where that 50% are really going to be focused on over the next 3 to 4 years, so we won't have to do that.

因此，在運營層面上，他們會支持這裡的運營控制中心，並在名冊上運行彈性，這樣當你確實遇到了非常糟糕的日子時，他們就可以實時做到這一點，這消除了飛行員和機組人員的那種中國綜合症，如果你有大約 150 人試圖聯繫呼叫中心，那麼你永遠不可能有那麼多人在那裡。所以你必須在問題發生之前解決它們。這就是未來 3 到 4 年真正關注的 50% 的人，所以我們不必這樣做。

And then added on top of that, you've got sort of things like that are going to happen on generative AI, which will just be really on the sort of -- primarily on the sort of the contact centers that we have, and there are obvious upsides on that. But it's infrastructure and security first, then is supporting scheduled and ancillary revenue and then supporting our staff on the front line with better comps, better technologies so we don't have to hire a large amount of people as we grow to 300 million passengers.

除此之外，類似的事情將會發生在生成人工智能上，這將真正發生在我們擁有的聯絡中心上，這有明顯的好處。但首先是基礎設施和安全，然後是支持預定收入和輔助收入，然後用更好的薪酬和更好的技術支持我們的一線員工，這樣當我們的乘客數量增長到 3 億時，我們就不必僱用大量人員。

Yes, I think that's the key point with Labs. Like we bought a lot of kind of in the past, you buy bespoke systems from these big airlines like Lufthansa or Swiss Air or who at the time we were carrying 4 million or 5 million passengers, they were doing 30 million or 40 million passengers. The challenge for us going forward is the biggest airline in Europe, group in Europe, other not Lufthansa. It's only about 100 million passengers. Nobody has developed systems for an airline that now has nearly 200 million passengers would have planned to grow to 300 million passengers. So we have to do it ourselves. And Labs, you look at the successful way they've exploited ancillary revenues in recent years, has been really a visionary bringing that in-house and developing those systems ourselves has been, I think, one of the great key changes in our development over the last decade. If we were trying to do this now would be with providers. They all these tuck-in IT consultants to be in here, taking your watch in charge of the billions to tell you what the time was.

是的，我認為這是實驗室的關鍵點。就像我們過去購買了很多東西一樣，你可以從漢莎航空或瑞士航空等大型航空公司購買定制系統，或者當時我們載客量為 400 萬或 500 萬乘客，而他們當時載客量為 3000 萬或 4000 萬乘客。我們未來面臨的挑戰是歐洲最大的航空公司、歐洲集團，而不是漢莎航空。旅客數量只有約1億人次。沒有人為一家目前擁有近 2 億乘客的航空公司開發系統，而該航空公司原本計劃將乘客數量增加到 3 億。所以我們必須自己做。實驗室，你看看他們近年來利用輔助收入的成功方式，真的是一個有遠見的人，將其引入內部並自己開發這些系統，我認為，這是我們過去十年發展中的重大關鍵變化之一。如果我們現在嘗試這樣做，那就是與提供商合作。他們都是擠在這裡的 IT 顧問，拿著你的手錶掌管著數十億的數據，告訴你現在幾點了。

You look at some of our competitors who struggle with matching all these tacked-on systems that don't talk to each other. It creates very significant challenges for airline groupings whereas in ours, the systems are much simpler.

你看看我們的一些競爭對手，他們很難匹配所有這些相互之間不通信的附加系統。它給航空公司集團帶來了非常重大的挑戰，而我們的系統則簡單得多。

Multi-AOC strategy, you're right, it hasn't developed much Remember, if you go back to where we were in 2017, the reason for the multi-AOC strategy was originally to get people off the Irish AOC. The Irish government had this ridiculous taxing claim on all credits all cabin crew operating on Irish-registered aircraft. They were all paying high personal taxes here in Ireland. As we recognize the unions in 2017, the unions and our people wanted local taxation, local employment contracts and the AOCs facilitated that Lauder was simply 1 that we had bought an Austrian AOC. It was an Airbus operation, we did move it to Malta, but it's a separate AOC. Buzz was set up as a charter airline in Poland. It needed the ability, therefore, the benefit of a Polish AOC so it could fly outside of the European Union to places like Egypt and Turkey, places like that, which -- and so really the only significant development in that in the last number of years has been post Brexit, the setup of Ryanair U.K.

多 AOC 策略，你是對的，它還沒有發展太多。記住，如果你回到 2017 年，多 AOC 策略的原因最初是為了讓人們擺脫愛爾蘭 AOC。愛爾蘭政府對在愛爾蘭註冊的飛機上運行的所有機組人員的所有積分提出了荒謬的徵稅要求。他們在愛爾蘭都繳納了高額個人稅。當我們在 2017 年認識到工會時，工會和我們的人民想要地方稅收、當地就業合同和 AOC，這使得蘭黛只是我們購買了奧地利 AOC 的一員。這是空中客車公司的一項業務，我們確實將其轉移到了馬耳他，但它是一個獨立的空中作戰中心。 Buzz 在波蘭成立為包機航空公司。因此，它需要有能力從波蘭航空運營商那裡受益，這樣它就可以飛出歐盟，飛往埃及和土耳其等地，而過去幾年裡唯一的重大發展是英國脫歐後，英國瑞安航空的成立。

So we today operate with 5 AOC to Ryanair DACH on the Irish AOC Malta Air from the Maltese AOC,Lauda on the maltese AOC Buzz on the Polish AOC and Ryanair U.K. with a U.K. AOC. It has a little bit of complexity, particularly at the management side. But I think it's a sensible way forward. We run a similar type -- well, not a similar. We run a group of airlines in much the same way that Lufthansa operates a group of airlines that has a German AOC, an Austrian AOC, a Swiss AOC, Belgian AOC. And shortly, I presume an Italian AOC, and IAG likewise has a U.K. AOC Spanish AOC, a couple of Spanish AOCs within the group.

因此，我們今天在愛爾蘭 AOC 馬耳他航空上運營 5 個 AOC，從馬耳他 AOC 飛往瑞安航空 DACH，在波蘭 AOC 上運營馬耳他 AOC Buzz 上的勞達 (Lauda)，在波蘭 AOC 上運營瑞安航空英國 (Ryanair U.K.)。它有一點複雜，特別是在管理方面。但我認為這是一個明智的前進方向。我們經營類似的類型——嗯，不是類似的。我們運營航空公司集團的方式與漢莎航空公司運營擁有德國 AOC、奧地利 AOC、瑞士 AOC 和比利時 AOC 的航空公司集團的方式大致相同。不久之後，我認為有一個意大利 AOC，IAG 也有一個英國 AOC、西班牙 AOC，集團內還有幾個西班牙 AOC。

So -- but it's not something that we would advocate. But I think if you're going to grow to 200 million to 300 million passengers. And increasingly, I think we'll want to fly to certain countries third-party countries like, for example, Morocco from the U.K., you need to have those AOCs because they're not part in open sky, the U.K. is not yet an open sky. But it's not something I think we would have done by choice. But I think it was a practical response to a number of issues and challenges we were facing primarily post unionization in 2017.

所以——但這不是我們提倡的。但我認為如果乘客數量要增加到 2 億到 3 億。我認為我們越來越希望從英國飛往某些第三方國家，例如摩洛哥，你需要擁有這些 AOC，因為它們不屬於開放天空，英國還不是開放天空。但這不是我認為我們會選擇做的事情。但我認為這是對我們在 2017 年成立工會後主要面臨的許多問題和挑戰的實際回應。

The next question comes from Johannes Braun from Stifel -- our final question today comes from Duane Pfennigwerth from Evercore ISI.

下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Johannes Braun——我們今天的最後一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Duane Pfennigwerth。

Just on seasonability, Europe has always had a more exaggerated peak leisure period than the U.S. I'm curious if there are any behavioral changes you guys are observing post COVID, any changes you see in the underlying seasonality going forward? And then certainly, appreciate Ryanair is primarily a leisure airline, but how would you characterize the level of corporate recovery in Europe versus the 80%, 85% recovered in the U.S.?

僅就季節性而言，歐洲的休閒高峰期總是比美國更誇張。我很好奇，在新冠疫情之後，你們是否觀察到了任何行為變化，以及未來潛在季節性的變化？當然，瑞安航空主要是一家休閒航空公司，但與美國 80%、85% 的企業復甦水平相比，您如何評價歐洲企業的複蘇水平？

Eddie, do you want to take the seasonality and I'll come back on the leisure airline business trial.

艾迪，你想接受季節性嗎？我會回來參加休閒航空公司的業務試驗。

Yes. I mean, as we've expanded into markets, we opened 2 bases in the Canaries. Spain continues to grow. Italy continues to grow. Greece continues to grow, Portugal. These are all I suppose, leisure countries that extend, we've been particularly successful in extending the season in a lot of those countries. We now added on. Morocco is growing strongly. Jordan is growing strongly. So that sort of leisure, sort of characteristics is extending itself out as you get away from the normal perception of the sort of bookend Spain-type holiday as opposed to sort of specialist interest of people going and traveling to those countries.

是的。我的意思是，隨著我們向市場擴張，我們在加那利群島開設了兩個基地。西班牙繼續增長。意大利繼續增長。希臘繼續增長，葡萄牙。我想這些就是延長休閒時間的國家，我們在延長其中許多國家的季節方面特別成功。我們現在添加了。摩洛哥正在強勁增長。喬丹正在強勁成長。因此，當你擺脫對西班牙式假期的通常看法，而不是人們去這些國家旅行的那種專業興趣時，這種休閒、這種特徵就會延伸出來。

It's not all about just going to the coast. So like we've been very judicious, as I say, in how we -- which I've referred to 2 previous questions, which was in cutting back some of that midweek capacity. It's in towards the weekends. But I've been very encouraged by what we can see we're looking at this time last year where cities have recovered, domestics have recovered, ethnic traffic has recovered as well. But the standard still seem -- are still the leisure, which Michael will talk about now in the Canaries.

這不僅僅是去海岸。正如我所說，我們在如何削減周中的產能方面非常明智，我已經提到了之前的兩個問題。快到週末了。但去年這個時候我們所看到的情況讓我深受鼓舞，城市已經復蘇，國內居民已經復蘇，少數民族交通也已經復蘇。但標準似乎仍然是休閒，邁克爾現在將在加那利群島談論休閒。

Yes. I mean I would -- don't overestimate the ends we're a leisure airline. We've seen a very strong recovery in our business travel. Historically, we have 40% of our passengers were traveling for a later regions, about 30% was business and 30% was VFR, business in friends and rest. Business has recovered very strongly in our VC business are a very short stay out back same day or next day we ascribe that to 2 things. One, the very significant push we made into the domestic markets in those big countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy. And as you have a bigger percentage in the domestic market, you tend to see more business travel. We've seen a lot of business travel into Central and Eastern Europe, Morocco, Portugal, people repairing kind of supply chain.

是的。我的意思是，不要高估我們作為一家休閒航空公司的目標。我們看到商務旅行的強勁復甦。從歷史上看，我們有 40% 的乘客前往較晚的地區，大約 30% 是商務旅行，30% 是 VFR、朋友出差和休息。我們的風險投資業務的業務恢復得非常強勁，當天或第二天就會有很短的停留時間，我們將其歸因於兩件事。第一，我們大力推進西班牙、葡萄牙、意大利等大國的國內市場。由於您在國內市場的份額更大，您往往會看到更多的商務旅行。我們看到很多商務旅行前往中歐和東歐、摩洛哥、葡萄牙，人們修復供應鏈。

There's been a lot, I think, of small- and medium-sized businesses repairing supply chain or they're replacing Asian supply chains that were bank disrupted during COVID with supply chains that are based in lower-cost economies but closer to Europe. So Morocco, Portugal Central Eastern Europe. We think that would be accentuated to if there's a reopening in Ukraine. There will be a lot of business travel in and out of Ukraine as that economy recovers.

我認為，有很多中小企業正在修復供應鏈，或者他們正在用低成本經濟體但更接近歐洲的供應鏈取代在新冠疫情期間銀行中斷的亞洲供應鏈。摩洛哥、葡萄牙、中東歐。我們認為，如果烏克蘭重新開放，這種情況將會更加嚴重。隨著烏克蘭經濟的複蘇，將會有大量的商務旅行進出烏克蘭。

So don't get too distracted by we're all a book and the pad operation is the charter and it isn't. We do have a large leisure component but a very strong visiting friends and relative piece and a very strong and growing business piece as well.

因此，不要因為我們都是一本書而分心，而墊操作是章程，但事實並非如此。我們確實有很大的休閒部分，但也有非常強大的探親訪友部分，以及非常強大且不斷增長的商業部分。

Okay. I think that's the end of all the questions we have today. Thank you, everybody, for participating in the call. Thanks to all the team here for what has been a strong Q1. I said our focus is on continuing to deliver excellent on-time performance during what is a challenging Q2. We're going to continue to mobilize and campaign for effective action on the ATC front. We expect shortly that our passenger petition will hit 1.5 million signatories. We'll be going back out to Brussels to represent that to Ms. von der Leyen. I'm sure she'll be absent our meeting on the day we managed to present the updated petition, but we're not stopping until we get some action out of the useless European Commission on ATC reform and protecting overflights. And then we will continue to campaign heavily for improved staffing at the national ATC providers so that hopefully next year, we'll have a more reliable or at least an ATC service that's more fit for the capacity that Europe requires.

好的。我想我們今天的所有問題就到此為止了。謝謝大家參與這次電話會議。感謝所有團隊在第一季度的強勁表現。我說過，我們的重點是在充滿挑戰的第二季度繼續提供出色的準時表現。我們將繼續動員並爭取在空中交通管制方面採取有效行動。我們預計不久之後我們的乘客請願書將有 150 萬簽名者。我們將返回布魯塞爾向馮德萊恩女士代表此事。我確信她會在我們設法提交更新的請願書那天缺席我們的會議，但我們不會停止，直到我們讓無用的歐盟委員會就空中交通管制改革和保護飛越採取行動。然後，我們將繼續大力改善國家 ATC 提供商的人員配備，以便明年我們將擁有更可靠的或至少更適合歐洲所需能力的 ATC 服務。

I have nothing else to add other than we'll keep you updated with the monthly traffic and load factor stats. Our next sort of big day will be the Capital Markets Day here in the first week of September. We will have the AGM in the third week of September where hopefully our shareholders will approve our MAX 10 order. And then I think our minds will focus on the half year results, which will be accompanied by an extensive road show. I think it's in the middle of November, end of November, second week of November. Okay, very -- thank you very much. Thanks, Maxine. Bye-bye.

除了讓您隨時了解每月流量和負載係數統計信息之外，我沒有其他要補充的。我們的下一個重要日子將是九月第一周的資本市場日。我們將於 9 月的第三週舉行年度股東大會，希望我們的股東能夠批准我們的 MAX 10 訂單。然後我認為我們的注意力將集中在半年業績上，這將伴隨著廣泛的路演。我想是在11月中旬、11月底、11月的​​第二週。好的，非常——非常感謝。謝謝，瑪克辛。再見。

This now concludes our conference call. Thank you all for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.

我們的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的出席。您現在可以斷開線路。