Ryanair Holdings PLC (RYAAY) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the Ryanair Q3 results call. My name is Carla and I will be your operator today. (Operator Instructions) I will now hand you over to the Ryanair Group CEO, Michael O'Leary to begin. Michael, please go ahead when you're ready.

早安，歡迎參加瑞安航空第三季業績電話會議。我叫卡拉，今天我將擔任您的接線生。（操作員指示）現在，我將把您交給瑞安航空集團首席執行官邁克爾奧利裡 (Michael O'Leary) 來開始。邁克爾，當你準備好了，請繼續。

Okay, good morning. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Ryanair Q3 results conference call. As you have seen this morning, we reported a Q3 profit after tax of EUR149 million due to traffic growth of 9% to 45 million passengers at marginally higher fares.

好的，早安。女士們，先生們，歡迎參加瑞安航空第三季業績電話會議。正如您今天早上看到的，我們報告第三季稅後利潤為 1.49 億歐元，原因是客流量增加 9% 至 4500 萬名乘客，且票價略有上漲。

We had stronger close in Christmas and New year bookings at marginally better fares than we'd expected. I would however caution cumulatively for the nine months, the profits of EUR1.94 billion are 12% below the prior nine months profit after tax of EUR2.19 billion as airfares over the nine month period are 8% lower than they were in the prior year.

我們在聖誕節和新年期間的預訂情況更為強勁，而且票價也比我們預期的要好一些。不過，我要提醒的是，就過去九個月的累積來看，19.4 億歐元的利潤比前九個月的 21.9 億歐元的稅後利潤低 12%，因為過去九個月的機票價格比去年同期低了 8%。

The Q3 highlights included traffic growth of 9% to EUR45 million despite repeated and very frustrating. Boeing aircraft delivery delays, revenue per passenger rose 1%. Q3 average fares were up 1% in ancillary revenue of 1%.

第三季的亮點包括，儘管屢屢令人沮喪，但流量仍增長了 9%，達到 4500 萬歐元。波音飛機交付延遲，每位乘客的收入上漲1%。第三季平均票價上漲 1%，附加收入上漲 1%。

However, the approved OTA partnerships are almost fully integrated and are working well and we see them trending well into the next into 2025. We have over 50% of our EUR800 million buyback was completed at the end of December. In fact, we're now just over 60% of it done.

然而，已批准的 OTA 合作夥伴關係幾乎已完全整合，並且運作良好，我們預計它們將在 2025 年繼續保持良好的發展趨勢。我們的 8 億歐元回購計畫已於 12 月底完成 50% 以上。事實上，我們現在已經完成了 60% 多一點。

Ancillary revenues in the quarter rose 10% to EUR1.04 billion in Q3. Operating costs with 9% traffic growth rose 8% to EUR2.93 billion as fuel hedge savings offset higher staff and other costs in part due to repeated Boeing delivery delays.

第三季的輔助收入成長 10%，達到 10.4 億歐元。由於波音公司一再推遲交付，燃油對沖節省的部分費用抵消了員工成本和其他成本的增加，導致客運量增加 9%，營運成本也隨之上漲 8%，達到 29.3 億歐元。

Touching briefly on the balance sheet on 31 December gross cash was EUR2.77 billion, which delivered or resulted in a modest quarter end net cash balance of just over EUR70 million despite EUR1.1 billion of CapEx over EUR1.1 billion of share buybacks and a EUR200 million dividend which was paid last September.

簡單看一下資產負債表，12 月 31 日的總現金為 27.7 億歐元，儘管資本支出超過 11 億歐元，股票回購超過 11 億歐元，並且去年 9 月支付了 2 億歐元的股息，但本季末的淨現金餘額僅為 7,000 萬歐元。

Our own Boeing 737 fleet 500 -- and over 580 aircraft is fully unencumbered and we believe this is critical as it significantly widens Ryanair's cost advantage over all other competitor airlines. While Ryanair prepares to repay a maturing EUR850 million bond in September '25 and a EUR1.2 billion bond in May '26, our competitors remain exposed to expensive and rising long-term finance and aircraft lease costs.

我們自己的波音 737 機隊（500 架——超過 580 架）完全沒有受到限制，我們認為這是至關重要的，因為它大大擴大了瑞安航空相對於所有其他競爭航空公司的成本優勢。雖然瑞安航空準備在25年9月償還到期的8.5億歐元債券，並在26年5月償還到期的12億歐元債券，但我們的競爭對手仍面臨著昂貴且不斷上升的長期融資和飛機租賃成本。

We're now over halfway through our current EUR800 million buyback and we expect to complete this program by mid-2025. When we finish it, Ryan will have returned almost EUR9 billion including dividend to our shareholders since 2008, with approximately 36% of the issued share capital repurchased and canceled.

目前，我們的 8 億歐元回購計畫已完成一半以上，預計在 2025 年中期完成該計畫。當我們完成它時，瑞安自 2008 年以來將向我們的股東返還近 90 億歐元（包括股息），其中約 36% 的已發行股本被回購和註銷。

I think the most notable feature of the last quarter and for the next quarter is Boeing aircraft delivery delays. These delays have now forced us to revise our FY26 traffic target for the third or fourth time. It originally went from 215 million down to 210 million and we now have to cut it 206 million, which will be just 3% traffic growth for the next 12 months, a very disappointing outcome, given the growth opportunities that are available to us across Europe.

我認為上個季度和下一季最顯著的特點是波音飛機交付延遲。這些延遲已迫使我們第三次或第四次修改 26 財年的流量目標。它最初是從 2.15 億下降到 2.1 億，現在我們必須將其削減到 2.06 億，這意味著未來 12 個月的流量成長率僅為 3%，考慮到我們在整個歐洲所擁有的成長機會，這是一個非常令人失望的結果。

We are however hopeful and I would say modestly confident that the remaining 29 game changers in our 210 aircraft order book will deliver before March 2026 and will enable us to recover this delayed traffic growth in summer '26 instead of summer '25.

然而，我們充滿希望，並且可以謙虛地說，有信心，我們 210 架飛機訂單中剩下的 29 架飛機將在 2026 年 3 月之前交付，並將使我們能夠在 2026 年夏季而不是 2025 年夏季恢復延遲的交通量增長。

As we were in Seattle very recently, Boeing still expect the Max 7 to be certified in the first half of 2025. The Max 10 in late 2025, which we hope will facilitate a timely delivery of our first 15 Max 10s in spring 2027 as per our contract.

正如我們最近在西雅圖一樣，波音公司仍然預計 Max 7 將在 2025 年上半年獲得認證。Max 10 將於 2025 年底交付，我們希望這能促使我們按照合約在 2027 年春季及時交付首批 15 架 Max 10。

Over the coming summer, we reallocate this very scarce capacity growth to those regions and airports most notably in Poland, in Spain, in Sweden, and regional Italy, who are investing in growth by abolishing aviation taxes and are incentivizing traffic growth.

在即將到來的夏天，我們將把這種非常稀缺的運力成長重新分配給那些地區和機場，尤其是波蘭、西班牙、瑞典和義大利地區，這些地區和機場透過取消航空稅來投資成長並激勵交通成長。

We expect European short haul capacity to remain heavily constrained in summer 2025. As many of Europe's Airbus operators continue to work through the Pratt & Whitney engine repairs, as both major aircraft manufacturers struggle with delivery backlogs and as EU airline consolidation and continues most recently, ITA and now the focus is on TAP.

我們預計，2025 年夏季歐洲短程航空運力仍將受到嚴重限制。由於歐洲許多空中巴士業者繼續努力修復普惠發動機，由於兩大飛機製造商都在努力應對交付積壓問題，隨著歐盟航空公司的整合和最近的繼續，ITA 現在的重點是 TAP。

I want to touch briefly on the ownership and control issue. As you recall, the Board confirmed over 49% of Ryanair's issue share capital was held by is held by EU nationals in anticipation of the breaching the 50% threshold or the 50% threshold being reached the Board deemed it appropriate to review potential variation of the ONC restrictions.

我想簡單談談所有權和控制權問題。您還記得，董事會確認，瑞安航空已發行股本的 49% 以上由歐盟國民持有，預計突破 50% 的門檻或達到 50% 的門檻後，董事會認為有必要審查 ONC 限制的潛在變化。

As part of this review, we've engaged an extensive engagement process with shareholders and regulators began last September and is now at an advanced stage. The current restrictions on share purchases and voting by non-EU nationals will remain in place during their review.

作為此次審查的一部分，我們從去年 9 月開始與股東和監管機構進行了廣泛的接觸過程，目前已進入後期階段。在審查期間，對非歐盟國民購買股票和投票的現行限制將繼續有效。

But based on current trends, the company expects its EU shareholding will reach [50 -- to 50% threshold] in the first half of 2025 or soon thereafter. And then I think the Board will consider and make a decision whether we maintain the ownership and/or the control restrictions thereafter.

但根據目前的趨勢，該公司預計其在歐盟的持股比例將在 2025 年上半年或不久後達到 [50% 至 50% 的門檻]。然後我認為董事會將考慮並決定我們是否維持所有權和/或控制權限制。

Touching briefly on outlook, I know everybody is very excited by summer 2025. Unfortunately, we have very little visibility at this point in time on summer '25. We do however expect our full year 2025 traffic that is to March '25 to reach almost 200 million. We might finish just short subject to no further adverse news on Boeing delivery delays.

簡單談談展望，我知道每個人都對 2025 年夏天感到非常興奮。不幸的是，目前我們對 25 年夏季的能見度很低。不過，我們預計 2025 年全年流量，即截至 2025 年 3 月的流量將達到近 2 億。如果沒有關於波音交貨延遲的進一步不利消息，我們可能會以微弱優勢結束交易。

Unit costs are performing well in line with our expectations as the cost GAAP between Ryanair and EU competitor Airlines widens and we expect our unit costs to be broadly flat for the full year, thanks to our fuel hedge savings.

由於瑞安航空和歐盟競爭對手航空之間的成本 GAAP 差距擴大，單位成本表現良好，符合我們的預期，由於我們的燃油對沖節省，我們預計全年單位成本將基本持平。

Our fuel hedge savings, strong interest income, and some very modest aircraft delay compensation in the form of credit notes against materials -- materials and services are largely offsetting ex fuel cost inflation, particularly crew pay and productivity issues, higher handling and ATC fees and the cost inefficiencies we've suffered as a result of repeated Boeing 737 delivery delays.

我們的燃油對沖儲蓄、豐厚的利息收入以及以材料-材料和服務信用票據形式獲得的一些非常適度的飛機延誤補償，在很大程度上抵消了燃油成本通脹，特別是機組人員工資和生產率問題、更高的處理和空中交通管制費用以及由於波音 737 一再延遲交付而遭受的成本低效。

While Q3 fares were marginally stronger than the prior year, remember the prior year was impacted by the OTA boycott in late November 2023. This year's Q4 will not benefit from last year's early Easter, which makes our Q4 prior year comp very, very challenging. At this stage, we're cautiously guiding full year '25 profit after tax in a range of EUR1.55 billion to EUR1.61 billion.

雖然第三季的票價比去年略高，但請記住，去年受到了 2023 年 11 月下旬 OTA 抵制的影響。今年第四季不會受益於去年提前的復活節，這使得我們第四季與去年同期相比非常非常具有挑戰性。現階段，我們謹慎預測25年全年稅後利潤將在15.5億歐元至16.1億歐元之間。

However, the final FY25 profit after tax outcome remains subject to avoiding adverse external developments between now and the end of March, most notably, the risk of further Boeing delivery delays and any short-term impact of the risk of conflicts in the Ukraine and the Middle East.

不過，2025財年的最終稅後利潤結果仍取決於如何避免從現在到3月底期間出現不利的外部發展，最明顯的是波音交付進一步延遲的風險，以及烏克蘭和中東衝突風險的任何短期影響。

And clearly the continuing mismanagement of ATC here in Europe where we continue to be deviled by short staffing, particularly on the first wave of departures. And with that, Neil, I'll hand it over to you. Is there anything you want to draw people's attention to the MD&A of the nine months?

顯然，歐洲的空中交通管制持續存在管理不善的情況，我們仍然受到人手短缺的困擾，特別是在第一批起飛的時候。說完這些，尼爾，我就把它交給你了。您想讓大家關註一下這九個月的 MD&A 嗎？

Okay. I don't have a huge amount to call out other than to reiterate the strength on the cost. The GAAP between ourselves and competitors continues to widen and clearly that's in line with the guidance that we gave back in November, with the half years, we're still guiding broadly flat full year unit cost; hedging very well hedged into next year. We're over 75% hedged at about $77 a barrel or [770 per metric ton on jet].

好的。除了重申成本優勢之外，我沒有什麼特別要說的。我們與競爭對手之間的 GAAP 差距繼續擴大，顯然這與我們在 11 月給出的指導方針一致，對於半年而言，我們仍然指導全年單位成本基本持平；對沖工作已經很好地對沖到了明年。我們有超過 75% 的對沖，價格約為每桶 77 美元，或者[噴射機每噸 770 美元]。

And then of course, as Michael called out the balance sheet in very good shape and the buyback going according to the plan, but nothing really else that I want to call out Michael.

當然，正如邁克爾所說，資產負債表狀況非常好，回購也按照計劃進行，但我真的沒有其他想對邁克爾說的話。

Okay, thank you for that. With that. We'll open up the Q&A please.

好的，謝謝你。就這樣。我們將開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Stephen Furlong, Davy.

（操作員指示）史蒂芬·弗隆，戴維。

Maybe just talk again about the type of growth for the summer where that's going to go to. Maybe you can talk about that. And then the second thing is maybe just more generally what you think about the supply chain.

也許只是再次討論夏季的成長類型。也許你可以談論這個。第二件事也許只是您對供應鏈更普遍的看法。

Is it more aircraft Michael or delays or would you say it's also engines? Because I know for example, after the Capital Markets Day, you talked about maybe insourcing some engine shops from 2030. So maybe just talk about that. Thanks a lot.

邁克爾，是飛機出了問題還是延誤了呢，或者您說還有引擎的問題？因為我知道，例如，在資本市場日之後，您談到可能從 2030 年開始將一些引擎車間納入內部採購。所以也許只是談論這個。多謝。

Just before I ask Eddie take it to the growth of summer '25, I think we just be cautious, be slightly careful here. Q3, we benefited slightly because of the OTA boycott in the prior year comp. So we had an easier prior year comp.

就在我要求 Eddie 將其帶到 25 年夏季的增長之前，我認為我們要謹慎，在這裡要稍微小心一點。第三季度，我們因去年同期的 OTA 抵製而略有受益。因此，我們去年的比較比較容易。

Q4, we have a challenging prior year comp because we had one half of Easter last year Q4. As we move into Q1 of summer or summer '25, we have an easier comp because you've only half of Easter in Q1, whereas this year we'll have two halves of Easter.

Q4，我們與去年同期相比面臨很大挑戰，因為去年第四季有一半時間處於復活節。當我們進入夏季第一季或 2025 年夏季時，我們會有一個更簡單的比較，因為第一季只有復活節的一半，而今年我們將有兩半復活節。

So the Q1 where we're seeing a reasonable bounce in pricing and in volumes, but we have very little visibility into the key second quarter of '25 which is September quarter. So we're not going to get into speculation fares, traffic.

因此，在第一季度，我們看到價格和銷量出現了合理的反彈，但我們對 2025 年第二季度，也就是 9 月的季度情況知之甚少。所以我們不會涉足投機票價和交通問題。

Other than to say, overall Europe capacity is constrained. We are much more constrained than we would wish to be. If Boeing had delivered us the 29 aircraft, we were due to get this year, we would be growing by about 10 million passengers. We would -- the original target for summer 25 or FY26 with 215 million passengers.

除此之外，歐洲整體產能受到限制。我們受到的限制比我們希望的要多得多。如果波音公司今年向我們交付 29 架飛機，我們的乘客數量將增加約 1,000 萬人次。我們最初的目標是2025年夏季或2026財年接待2.15億名乘客。

We will struggle to get to 206 million and it is very frustrating that we can't grow at a time when most of our competitors across Europe are heavily constrained because of Airbus engine repairs. But we are where we are. We do however believe that, that constraint though will be modestly beneficial for forward bookings and forward and pricing into summer of 2026 -- summer of 2025 as long as there is nothing untoward.

我們將努力實現 2.06 億的目標，但在歐洲大多數競爭對手都因空中巴士引擎維修而受到嚴重限制的情況下，我們無法實現成長，這令人非常沮喪。但我們仍在原地。然而，我們確實相信，只要沒有任何不利情況，這種限制將對 2026 年夏季至 2025 年夏季的預訂和定價略有裨益。

And we live in a world where there's lots of risks most notably further Boeing delivery delays, Trump in the White House. And you know, what may happen with the Ukraine conflict and in the Middle East. Can I just touch on the supply chain? We don't see this being a supply chain issue with Boeing. Boeing had particular problems with the -- where they were coming from the Max grounding. They were catching up a huge backlogs of deliveries and then they had a two month strike in November, December.

我們生活的世界充滿風險，最明顯的是波音交付進一步延遲，以及川普入主白宮。你知道烏克蘭衝突和中東局勢可能會發生什麼事。我可以談談供應鏈嗎？我們不認為這是波音公司的供應鏈問題。波音公司在 737 Max 停飛問題上遇到了特別的問題。他們正在處理大量積壓的貨物，然後在 11 月和 12 月進行了兩個月的罷工。

We have been a little disappointed with Boeing and how slow they have been to reboot manufacturing through January -- December, January, and into February. They are making progress, but it is slow progress, and we are very much at the front end of that slow progress. We had expected originally 25 aircrafts for summer 2025 that then was reduced to 15 and now we're back to 9 aircraft.

我們對波音公司感到有些失望，他們在 1 月、12 月、1 月和 2 月重啟製造業的速度如此緩慢。他們正在取得進展，但進展緩慢，而我們正處於這一緩慢進展的最前線。我們原本預計 2025 年夏季將有 25 架飛機，後來減少到 15 架，現在又回到了 9 架。

We're pretty certain we'll get those 9 aircrafts because most of those fuselages are actually already in Seattle, but there are no supply chain issues constraining Boeing at the moment.

我們非常確定我們將獲得這 9 架飛機，因為大多數機身實際上已經在西雅圖了，但目前波音公司沒有任何供應鏈問題受到限制。

If you go to Seattle, they have lots of spare engines, there's lots of spares there, the issue -- and then there's lots of fuselages backed up in Wichita. The problem is getting them pulled to Seattle and getting production up in Seattle.

如果你去西雅圖，他們有很多備用發動機，那裡有很多備件，問題是——然後在威奇託有很多機身被堵塞。問題在於如何讓他們來到西雅圖並提高西雅圖的產量。

And we are reasonably hopeful that absent, nothing else goes wrong with Boeing that will build back up their production reasonably quickly and we'll be back up at 38 -- or 38 aircrafts by the end of the summer, we would hope to see them getting to 40 -- or 38, they expect to get to 38 by the middle of the summer. And we would hope they'll be up at around 42 in October. But that does need an FAA approval to go up from 38 to 42.

我們合理地希望，如果波音公司不出其他問題，它將相當快地恢復生產，到夏季末，我們的飛機產量將恢復到 38 架，我們希望看到他們達到 40 架，或者 38 架，他們預計到夏季中旬將達到 38 架。我們希望 10 月該數字能升至 42 左右。但從 38 架增加到 42 架需要獲得美國聯邦航空局的批准。

So there are no supply chain issues with that. There are over the medium term. However, supply chain challenges, particularly with engine maintenance shops around the world. And we are actively engaged in a process where we're looking at setting up one or two engine maintenance shops in house ourselves over the next 12 or 18 months. Eddie, anything you want to draw people's attention to in our constrained growth for summer of '25?

因此不存在供應鏈問題。從中期來看，是有的。然而，供應鏈面臨挑戰，特別是遍布全球的引擎維修店。我們正積極參與這一進程，並計劃在未來 12 到 18 個月內自行建立一到兩家發動機維修店。艾迪，在我們 2025 年夏季受限的成長中，有什麼你想引起人們的注意的嗎？

Yeah, I think like constrained growth has really pointed the churn that we've gone through in airports and where we've rewarded like countries regions and airports where we have, where we've got reducing costs and that's reflected in either airport charges or taxes.

是的，我認為受限的成長確實指出了我們在機場所經歷的客戶流失，以及我們對所在國家、地區和機場給予獎勵，以及我們降低成本，這反映在機場收費或稅收上。

So if you look at places like Italy, the municipal tax going in three regions now. And so we've had additional aircraft going into Lamezia and Reggio, both in Calabria, also in Trieste. And then more recently in the last two weeks in a Abruzzo and that has been reduced or is gone.

如果你看看像義大利這樣的地方，市政稅現在分為三個地區。因此，我們有更多飛機飛往拉梅齊亞和雷焦（均位於卡拉布里亞），還有的里雅斯特。而最近兩週在阿布魯佐，這種情況已經減少或消失了。

And that's EUR650 per passenger, that will you see in places like Spain where suddenly we see that, while we're still growing at major airports, it has brought into sharp focus, the uncompetitiveness of regional airports and you have seen the spot that we've had there in recent weeks where you've got the airport authority not moving at all.

每位乘客的費用為 650 歐元，您會在西班牙等地看到這種情況，我們突然發現，雖然主要機場仍在發展，但它已讓人們更加關注地區機場的缺乏競爭力，而且您已經看到了最近幾週我們在那裡遇到的情況，機場管理局根本沒有採取任何行動。

So while heavily towards leisure in the tourist hotspots of, the Balearics and the Malaga and Alicante where we put in extra capacity. And if you look right around them places like Sweden, the aviation tax has gone, we've increased our base aircraft in Sweden by about 30%.

因此，我們專注於巴利阿里群島、馬拉加和阿利坎特等旅遊熱點地區的休閒活動，並投入了額外的精力。如果你看看周圍像瑞典這樣的地方，你會發現航空稅已經取消，我們在瑞典的基礎飛機數量增加了約 30%。

And then you look in places like Central, Eastern Europe whereby you have Croatia, with our new base doing very well in Dubrovnik, you've got Hungary with taxes going even in Dublin this week where you've got the incentive on for game changers going in so that we're getting reduced costs because of less noise emissions and less fuel burn.

然後你再看看中歐和東歐等地，比如克羅埃西亞，我們在杜布羅夫尼克的新基地發展得非常好，還有匈牙利，甚至本週在都柏林也要徵稅，那裡有激勵措施來改變遊戲規則，這樣我們就可以透過減少噪音排放和燃料消耗來降低成本。

And even in Germany, whereby you've got this disconnect standard to Spain where major airports continue to ratchet up prices through federal taxes, you still have these smaller regional airports, places like [Nederhütte], Baden-Baden, fighting very hard for capacity. So less capacity, bringing those -- bringing costs into sharp focus in Europe, those that reduce costs are being rewarded. Those that don't, are not getting any of that growth and in some cases are in reverse.

即使在德國，儘管與西班牙的標準不同，但那裡的主要機場仍透過聯邦稅不斷提高票價，但一些較小的地區性機場，如巴登巴登、內德胡特等地仍在為爭奪運力而苦苦掙扎。產能減少，導致成本成為歐洲關注的焦點，降低成本的人就會得到獎勵。那些沒有這樣做的國家，就沒有實現任何成長，有些甚至出現了倒退。

Yeah. And I would highlight the case of the UK economy in particular where you have Rachel Reeves, claiming that to deliver growth. For first, the initiative with the increased APD, which immediately damages air travel to and from the UK, and now trying to distract everybody by supporting a third runway in Heathrow.

是的。我想特別強調英國經濟的案例，其中 Rachel Reeves 聲稱這可以實現成長。首先，增加 APD 的舉措會立即損害往返英國的航空旅行，現在又試圖透過支持希思羅機場的第三條跑道來分散所有人的注意力。

The third runway will be may or may not be delivered, delivered in my lifetime. I wouldn't hold my breath. But if you're really serious and if that government is serious about growth, they should be scrapping APD and stop worrying about a third runway in Heathrow.

第三條跑道有可能在我有生之年建成，也有可能不會建成。我不會屏住呼吸。但如果你真的是認真的，如果政府真的想要發展，他們就應該廢除 APD，而不要再擔心希斯洛機場的第三條跑道。

There's lots of runway capacity still in Stansted and in regional UK where Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Bristol, Glasgow, and Edinburgh have lots of capacity for growth. But the first thing she does is jump up the taxes, which harms growth and encourages us to reallocate capacity and growth away from the UK to markets like Sweden, Italy, Hungary, and others where they're reducing or abolishing taxes.

斯坦斯特德機場和英國其他地區的跑道容量仍然很大，其中曼徹斯特、利物浦、伯明罕、布里斯托、格拉斯哥和愛丁堡等機場的跑道容量有很大的成長空間。但她做的第一件事就是提高稅收，這不利於成長，並鼓勵我們將產能和成長從英國重新分配到瑞典、義大利、匈牙利和其他正在減稅或取消稅收的國家。

It's about time these European politicians began to actually twig. Trump isn't always wrong and that if you want growth in European air travel, abolish these stupid taxes, the benefits flow immediately to consumers and there will be an immediate response in terms of growth in the UK. Whereas the third runway in Heathrow won't happen over the next 10 or 20 years and it's just a distraction from her failed policies of raising travel taxes.

這些歐洲政客現在是真正開始清醒的時候了。川普並不總是錯的，如果你希望歐洲航空旅行成長，就廢除這些愚蠢的稅收，好處會立即流向消費者，英國的成長也會立即得到回應。而希思羅機場的第三條跑道不會在未來10年或20年內建成，它只會轉移人們對她提高旅行稅的失敗政策的注意力。

Next question, please.

請回答下一個問題。

James Hollins, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的詹姆斯霍林斯。

Two for me, please. First one is on the OTA update. This is not me trying to get you to talk about pricing in the summer. I was wondering if you could just give a broader response on what you're seeing with bookings impact, maybe what tech integration is still to go, and maybe what sort of upside you might see on pricing into fiscal H1 '26, and now the OTA deals are done.

請給我兩份。第一個是關於 OTA 更新。我並不是想讓你談論夏季的定價問題。我想知道您是否可以就預訂量的影響給出更廣泛的回答，也許還有哪些技術整合尚未完成，以及您可能看到 26 財年上半年的定價有哪些上行空間，現在 OTA 交易已經完成。

And the second one, I know that being stupid here. But I get why full year '26 -- fiscal '26 passengers only at 3%. But in your appendices, you've got full year '27 only up 4% I think previously was 10%. And obviously you got a lower base. May maybe just run me through what I'm missing. Thank you.

第二個，我知道這是很愚蠢的。但我明白為什麼 26 年全年——26 財年的乘客量只有 3%。但在您的附錄中，您說 27 年全年只成長了 4%，我認為之前是 10%。顯然你的基數較低。也許可以告訴我我遺漏了什麼。謝謝。

Okay, that's [FY20] -- on the OTA update, we have agreements done with over 90% of the major OTAs. They are -- and I think what's critical in those agreements is that the OTAs we give them direct access into the Ryanair inventory and they agree not to overcharge our customers. So we're seeing strong forward bookings. Now these are small volumes they're making in total.

好的，這是 [FY20] — 關於 OTA 更新，我們已經與超過 90% 的主要 OTA 達成了協議。是的——我認為這些協議中至關重要的一點是，我們授予 OTA 直接訪問瑞安航空庫存的權限，並且他們同意不向我們的客戶收取過高的費用。因此，我們看到了強勁的預購量。目前，他們總共生產的數量很少。

The OTA may account for say about 10% of our total traffic over a full year. But we're seeing meaningful volumes coming through as you know, at higher average fares at the moment through Easter into summer 2025 because they're booking holidays at the moment and they book Saturday to Saturday and they tend to be booking more premium travel dates and more premium time.

OTA 可能占到我們全年總流量的 10% 左右。但如你所知，我們看到從復活節到 2025 年夏天的客流量顯著增加，目前的平均票價較高，因為他們目前正在預訂假期，並且從週六到週六預訂，而且他們傾向於預訂更優質的旅行日期和更優質的時間。

So we're certainly seeing a reversal of the OTA boycott this time last year and therefore against a week prior year composing, seeing strong numbers out into the summer 2020, but off a very low base. I mean, if I look out across, if I take April out of the numbers, at the moment, we're seeing our forward booking this summer '25 are running about 1% ahead of where they were this time last year and the prices are very modestly up, but only modestly.

因此，我們確實看到了去年此時對 OTA 抵制的逆轉，因此與去年同期相比，我們看到 2020 年夏季的數字強勁，但基數非常低。我的意思是，如果我縱觀整個數據，如果我把 4 月份的數據去掉，目前，我們發現 2025 年夏季的預訂量比去年同期增長了約 1%，而且價格略有上漲，但只是略有上漲。

And now April is different because April has two halves of Easter. So Q1 will get a bounce, but it's too early to make any predictions on Q2 or Q3. The tech integration has gone very well. We do see there they are actually in some cases better at selling some of the ancillary service than we are and we're learning from that and working with them.

而現在四月有所不同，因為四月有兩個復活節。因此，第一季將會反彈，但對第二季或第三季做出任何預測還為時過早。技術整合進展非常順利。我們確實發現，在某些情況下，他們在銷售一些輔助服務方面比我們做得更好，我們正在從中學習並與他們合作。

And some of the OTA are also looking at advancing kind of artificial intelligence and machine learning to improve the way we display our fares and price it and then convert people into using the ancillary services.

一些 OTA 也在研究先進的人工智慧和機器學習，以改善我們顯示票價和定價的方式，然後吸引人們使用輔助服務。

FY26 at the moment, the Boeing because we're 29 aircraft short this year, the numbers are moving to the right hand side. So at this point in time, we expect this year, we'll be probably just a fraction under, I mean, we could be 30,000, 40,000 passengers under the 200 million.

目前是 26 財年，波音公司由於今年缺少 29 架飛機，數字正在向右側移動。因此，目前我們預計，今年的客運量可能只會比這個數字低一點點，也就是說，客運量可能會在 2 億這個數字以下，有 3 萬到 4 萬名乘客。

We will grow 3% next year to 206 million. And then we expect to get much of that back. We expect FY27 will grow to about 215 million with the 29 aircraft -- delayed aircraft. If we get all of those by the end of March 2026, then FY27 would be 215 million, which would be 4% traffic growth on 206 million.

明年我們將成長3%，達到2.06億。然後我們希望收回大部分的錢。我們預計，隨著 29 架飛機（延誤的飛機）的到來，27 財年的收入將成長至約 2.15 億。如果我們在 2026 年 3 月底之前實現所有這些目標，那麼 2027 財年的流量將達到 2.15 億，在 2.06 億的基礎上成長 4%。

Yeah, it's more why you're only at 215 million. In full year '27, you were at 230 million previously unless I'm getting it wrong. But I just wonder --

是的，這更重要的是為什麼你的人數只有 2.15 億。如果我沒記錯的話，27 年全年的收入是 2.3 億。但我只是想知道--

It's in the slide presentation. I mean, I'm not sure whether we were 230 million was partly, that might have been, that number is a moveable number. It was -- we have come up with a calculation eight years ago where we got to 230 million with some additional -- we buy some additional secondhand aircraft. The 230 million has now moved back a year to FY28. We still think we'll get there, but that's with the we need the Maxes and no more delivery delays.

它在幻燈片演示中。我的意思是，我不確定我們是否有 2.3 億，部分原因是，這個數字可能是，這個數字是一個可移動的數字。是的——我們八年前就進行了計算，當時我們花了 2.3 億美元，再加上一些額外的——我們買了一些二手飛機。這 2.3 億現已延後一年至 28 財年。我們仍然認為我們會實現這個目標，但前提是我們需要 Maxes，並且不能再出現交貨延遲。

Okay, cool. Thank you.

好的，很酷。謝謝。

Don't get too focused on one year over the other. All of our growth and the deliveries are essentially moving back a year to the right, and therefore, so is the growth.

不要太過於關注某一年而忽略另一年。我們的所有成長和交付基本上都向後移動了一年，因此成長也是如此。

Thanks, James.

謝謝，詹姆斯。

Next question please.

請回答下一個問題。

Dudley Shanley, Goodbody.

達德利·山利（Dudley Shanley），古德博迪（Goodbody）。

Two questions if I may. The first one is on the slower growth profile next year. I mean, are there implications in terms of unit costs and particularly in staff or does the airport en route journey that Eddie was talking about offset that? And then the second question is in terms of the outlook for capacity constraint in Europe over the next few years, have you seen anything change in that outlook in the last few months? Thank you.

我可以問兩個問題。第一個問題是明年經濟成長放緩。我的意思是，這對單位成本，特別是員工成本是否有影響，或者 Eddie 提到的機場航程是否可以抵消這些影響？第二個問題是，就未來幾年歐洲產能限制的前景而言，您是否看到過去幾個月這種前景有任何變化？謝謝。

Okay, on a slower growth profile. I don't think it -- we don't see anything that will, that should constrain us there. The big issue for us last year was, we had spooled up to take for 30 aircraft deliveries and finished up getting 15. So we were over crewed through a lot of the summer.

好的，成長情況較慢。我不這麼認為——我們沒有看到任何會限制我們的事情。去年我們面臨的最大問題是，我們原計劃接收 30 架飛機，但最終只接收了 15 架。因此整個夏天我們的人手都太多。

As long as Boeing deliver us those nine aircrafts, the nine aircraft we're due to get this summer, we will have a better balance of crewing this year. We won't -- and haven't over-crewed or haven't over recruited or over-trained. In fact, if anything, our attrition rates are running at historically low levels. So we are cutting back and have postponed or canceled a significant amount of pilot and cabin crew recruitment training that would normally take place through our Q3 and Q4.

只要波音公司向我們交付這九架飛機（也就是我們今年夏天將獲得的九架飛機），我們今年的機組人員配置就會更加平衡。我們不會，也沒有過度配備人員、過度招募或過度訓練。事實上，我們的員工流動率正處於歷史最低水準。因此，我們正在削減開支，並推遲或取消了大量通常在第三季和第四季進行的飛行員和機組人員招募培訓。

So there might be a little bit of upside there. The churn discussions have been interesting. We have seen significant, I think results coming out of negotiations with a lot of base airports and also with governments. I mean, I think the rollback of taxes in Sweden in Hungary, in regional Italy, and in some of the other have a direct result of those kind of current discussion.

因此，那裡可能會有一點點上漲空間。關於客戶流失的討論很有趣。我認為，我們已經看到了與許多基地機場以及政府的談判的重大成果。我的意思是，我認為瑞典、匈牙利、義大利地區以及其他一些國家的減稅是當前此類討論的直接結果。

And again, it highlights why the UK is so kind of completely out of touch, delusional stuff like raising taxes at a time when other EU economies are scrapping aviation taxes and then talking about a third runway in Heathrow in 30 years' time, it's all meaningless non-sense.

這再次凸顯了為什麼英國如此脫離實際，在其他歐盟經濟體紛紛取消航空稅的時候英國卻提高稅收，然後又談論 30 年後在希思羅機場修建第三條跑道，這些荒唐之舉都是毫無意義的。

So we don't see that there will be-- again, I think that while the slower growth profile is disappointing, it's short term, we will add only about 6 million passengers this year, 206 million and then we will go back to close to 9 million or 10 million passengers, which is what we expect to be our normal growth profile going forward. We expect to be growing at about 10 million passengers a year. So something like four or 5% on a 200 million base. And that has been our rate of growth in prior years where we didn't have Boeing delivery delays.

因此，我們認為不會出現——我認為，雖然增長放緩令人失望，但這只是短期現象。我們預計每年的乘客數量將增加約 1000 萬人次。因此，在 2 億的基數上，這一比例約為 4% 或 5%。這是我們前幾年的成長率，當時沒有波音的交付延遲。

Eddie you want to talk about capacity constraint and changes?

艾迪，你想談談產能限制和變化嗎？

But on that capacity constraint, I mean, that does bring those decisions into really sharp focus in different countries. I mean, if you just take what Michael called out there in Sweden, I mean, Sweden is going to look around and say, look SAF, come out of chapter 11, much smaller than it was before it went in. Norwegian haven't really grown in Sweden.

但就容量限製而言，這確實使不同國家的決策受到了極大的關注。我的意思是，如果你只聽邁克爾在瑞典所呼籲的，那麼瑞典將會環顧四周並說，看看 SAF，擺脫第 11 章後，規模會比進入第 11 章之前小得多。挪威語在瑞典並沒有真正發展起來。

And if they want to have connectivity, they look around and say, what are we going to do? And Ryanair is essentially the only show in town to actually move the dial and increasingly, we're able to move the dial even with that reduced capacity.

如果他們想要實現連結性，他們就會環顧四周並說，我們該怎麼辦？瑞安航空基本上是鎮上唯一一家真正能推動業務發展的航空企業，即使在運力減少的情況下，我們仍然能夠推動業務的發展。

Places like Morocco where we've grown by almost 20%; Italy, where that growth is going into those airports where the municipal tax is gone. And those regions, airports know that there is no other carrier of volume that can actually solve the problem that they have for making up capacity shortfalls post-COVID. It just comes into sharper focus.

在摩洛哥等地，我們的業務成長了近 20%；義大利的機場發展迅速，不再徵收市政稅。這些地區的機場都知道，沒有其他規模如此大的航空公司能真正解決他們在疫情後彌補運力不足的問題。它只是變得更加清晰了。

And if you look around the competitive piece, you look at some of our competitors are, the likes of easyJet, who are getting some aircraft, they're up gauging aircraft, but most of that is taking place at their fortress airport. You know, the Gatwick, the Paris, Switzerland. They seem to be avoiding competition with us quite sensibly.

如果你環視競爭對手，你會看到我們的一些競爭對手，例如易捷航空，他們正在獲得一些飛機，他們正在升級飛機，但大多數都是在他們的堡壘機場進行的。你知道，蓋特威克機場、巴黎機場、瑞士機場。他們似乎非常明智地避免與我們競爭。

And equally, I would say with same thing, buying aircraft at ludicrous prices, their cost of aircraft ownership and maintenance goes up the more aircraft they get. But most of that capacity seems to be deployed into the stands, the Middle East, we see no capacity growth in any of the markets where we're still growing capacity meaningfully.

同樣，我想說的是，以荒唐的價格購買飛機，他們購買的飛機越多，擁有和維護成本就越高。但大部分產能似乎都部署在中東地區，我們在其他任何市場都沒有看到產能成長，而這些市場的產能仍在顯著增加。

Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, and down in the Balkans where we are expanding quite significantly. A lot of it in markets where they were previously the main carrier, Albania, and Tirana, for example, were growing strongly.

波蘭、羅馬尼亞、保加利亞、匈牙利以及巴爾幹半島，我們正在這些地區大力擴張。在他們以前是主要承運人的市場上，例如阿爾巴尼亞和地拉那，業務成長強勁。

And obviously, their kind of growth is constrained by the Airbus engine repairs, but we see very little from them for all their talk about competing with us. They're in retreating at speed out of Italy. They have retreated at speed out of Vienna. We barely notice that I don't, I'm not even sure whether they're in Vienna anymore, but nobody in Vienna knows whether they're or not either.

顯然，他們的成長受到空中巴士引擎維修的限制，但是儘管他們一直在談論與我們競爭，但我們卻很少看到他們的行動。他們正在快速撤出義大利。他們已迅速撤出維也納。我們幾乎沒有註意到我沒有，我什至不確定他們是否還在維也納，但維也納的人也不知道他們是否還在。

And meanwhile, we're continuing to grow strongly in all of those markets. So if you look at what are we looking at outlook for capacity, we're constrained this year, which is disappointing because I think if we could get more aircraft, we will take enormous amounts of further market share from incumbent.

同時，我們在所有這些市場都繼續保持強勁成長。因此，如果你看一下我們對運力前景的看法，你會發現今年我們的運力受到了限制，這令人失望，因為我認為，如果我們能夠獲得更多的飛機，我們將從現有航空公司手中奪取更大的市場份額。

We look to Lufthansa acquiring [ITA], we think that will mean ITA doing more feeder services into Frankfurt and Munich, but will create more opportunities for us to grow in domestic Italy. And I think if the TAP consolidation takes place again, we're the largest airline in Portugal, and we would be a direct beneficiary of one of the high cost or high cost airlines. Lufthansa or Air France, KLM (inaudible) acquiring what's left of TAP in Lisbon.

我們期待漢莎航空收購 [ITA]，我們認為這意味著 ITA 將在法蘭克福和慕尼黑提供更多的支線服務，但也會為我們在義大利國內市場創造更多發展機會。我認為，如果葡萄牙航空再次合併，我們是葡萄牙最大的航空公司，並將直接受益於高成本或高成本航空公司之一。漢莎航空、法國航空、荷航（聽不清楚）收購了里斯本葡萄牙航空的剩餘業務。

Next question please.

請回答下一個問題。

Jaime Rowbotham, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的 Jaime Rowbotham。

So two from me, first one, I'm afraid I just want to carry on this capacity point. Yeah, last summer, despite all the challenges, you grew your seats about 9%. I think some of your competitors, many of them grew at 4% to 5%, there were one or two smaller ones that grew even faster. So the schedule suggests system capacity last summer was at mid-single digits.

所以我要講兩點，第一點，恐怕我只想繼續這個能力點。是的，去年夏天，儘管面臨許多挑戰，但你們的席位仍然增長了約 9%。我認為你們的一些競爭對手，其中許多都成長了 4% 到 5%，有一兩家較小的公司成長速度甚至更快。因此，該時間表表明，去年夏季的系統容量處於個位數的中等水平。

And if we then turn to this summer, clearly, you're now looking at 3%-ish and I take your point on with 20 easyJet one being rather exceptional, but there's others around, Jet2 at 9%, Norwegian at 5%. Even adjusting those for further aircraft and engine issues, it feels to me like there can be a reasonable bit of intra-EU seat growth at a time when the demand growth is surely resuming its more normal relationship with the macro, right? Like 1.5 to 2 times a modest EUR area GDP. So I just wanted to challenge one more time with this idea of such constrained supply.

如果我們回顧今年夏天，顯然，你現在看到的是 3% 左右，我同意你的觀點，20 個 easyJet 是相當例外，但還有其他的，Jet2 為 9%，挪威為 5%。即使針對進一步的飛機和發動機問題進行調整，我覺得在需求增長肯定恢復與宏觀更正常的關係的時候，歐盟內部的座位量仍然會合理增長，對嗎？大約為歐元區 GDP 的 1.5 到 2 倍。所以我只是想再一次挑戰這種供應受限的想法。

And then secondly, I just was going to invite you to comment on the unit costs, flattish in the quarter, but obviously [fuel down 12, non-fuel up 8], you mentioned some of the things driving that up. Eight, the crew pay the productivity issues and a few others. Could you just touch on those again and, and may help us to understand when that non-fuel cost inflation might slow a bit for Ryanair? Thanks.

其次，我只是想請您對單位成本進行評論，本季度單位成本持平，但顯然 [燃料成本下降 12，非燃料成本上升 8]，您提到了一些推動單位成本上升的因素。八、機組人員薪酬、生產力問題及其他一些問題。您能否再次談談這些問題，並幫助我們了解瑞安航空的非燃料成本通膨何時會放緩？謝謝。

Okay, I might part the second one. I give the unit cost and I ask Neil to come on unit cost and maybe who's here with me in Dublin might add on that. Can I just touch on the capacity growth? Look, again, I think sometimes with great respect, you guys get a bit overly focused on where the capacity growth is.

好的，我可能會分開第二個。我給了單位成本，並請尼爾介紹單位成本，也許和我一起在都柏林的人可能會補充這一點。我可以談談產能成長嗎？再說一次，我認為有時候儘管非常尊重，但你們有點過於關注產能成長的地方。

You know, I think what's happening, there are some additions to capacity, but easyJet mostly their capacity growth is up-gauging aircraft and it is not competing with us. It is up-gauging aircraft replacing 319 for 320, 321 in Paris, in Switzerland, and in Gatwick, we don't see it. We don't notice it.

你知道，我認為目前的情況是，運力增加，但易捷航空的運力成長主要是透過升級飛機，並且不會與我們競爭。這是升級版的飛機，用 320 取代 319，在巴黎、瑞士和蓋特威克機場，我們都沒有看到 321 的身影。我們沒有註意到。

If you take Jet2, for example, yes, there's some modest increase in capacity, but it's largely on UK regionals to holiday hotspots. You know, it's package holiday stuff going to the canaries. That's not to say it's not real, but frankly, we're seeing increased demand, particularly having repaired the OTA. I think we did lose a slug of that business last year that went to the tour operators.

以 Jet2 為例，確實，其運能增加，但主要是飛往英國地區和度假熱點地區。您知道，這是去加那利群島的度假套餐。這並不是說它不是真的，但坦白說，我們看到需求增加，特別是在修復了 OTA 之後。我認為，去年我們確實損失了一部分業務，這些業務都流向了旅行社。

And that's, I think it's clearly coming back to us this year because ultimately our combination of Ryanair and the OTA, we have lower seats and therefore more competitive package with the like of Jet2. But across the European piece, if you look at that, where are we allocating our growth this year? You know, it's in Sweden, we don't notice Norwegian at all up there if they're adding any capacity in Norway, in Italy, where we're seeing regional or you know, the three of the biggest regions abolishing municipal tax.

我認為，今年我們顯然會重回正軌，因為最終我們將瑞安航空和 OTA 結合起來，擁有更低的座位數，因此與 Jet2 等公司相比，我們的套餐更具競爭力。但如果你看一下歐洲的情況，你就會知道，今年我們的成長將分配到哪裡？你知道，這是在瑞典，我們根本沒有註意到挪威是否在挪威增加了任何容量，在義大利，我們看到地區或你知道，三個最大的地區取消了市政稅。

Hungary, okay. Over a minute, it's with its own marketplace. Again, they're not adding any capacity there that we can see. Poland, nobody's adding any capacity in Poland other than Ryanair. So in every area where we're adding capacity, we don't see somebody else adding capacity and then we do slightly have the benefit and I would caution again this year, but I keep coming back, we have a kind of weaker prior year comp this year because of the OTA, we were one of the few airlines last year who brought fares down to 8% in the nine months.

匈牙利，好的。過了一會兒，它就有了自己的市場。再者，據我們所知，他們沒有在那裡增加任何產能。波蘭，除了瑞安航空之外，沒有人在波蘭增加運力。因此，在我們增加運力的每個領域，我們都看不到其他人增加運力，然後我們確實略有優勢，今年我會再次發出警告，但我一直認為，由於 OTA，今年我們的同比票價較弱，我們是去年為數不多的幾家在 9 個月內將票價降低 8% 的航空公司之一。

So we have an easier prior year comp partly because of the OTA and partly because of, we couldn't really identify where the weakness was in consumer spending last year. Whereas competitors like easyJet, for example, their fares were flat last year, but their capacity was essentially flat. Jet2 had fares up. But again, I think that was part of the benefit of our sending the OTA traffic going to them from us.

因此，我們與去年同期的比較結果更為容易，部分原因是 OTA，部分原因是我們無法真正確定去年消費者支出的弱點。而像易捷航空這樣的競爭對手，去年的票價保持不變，但運能也基本維持不變。Jet2 的票價上漲了。但我再次認為這是我們向他們發送 OTA 流量的好處之一。

I don't argue, I don't dispute that there may be a modest increase in capacity across the piece, but that capacity doesn't appear to be getting added into markets where Ryanair is either very large or growing in those markets.

我並不爭論，我也不否認整個板塊的運力可能會有適度增長，但在瑞安航空規模非常大或正在增長的市場中，運力似乎並沒有增加。

And so we would still believe, again that we're entering into a reasonably benign period where the outlook for traffic growth is constrained at three maybe 3 -- or at 3%. And at this point in time, the pricing looks reasonably benign. I mean, if you look at Q3, we expect the Q3 pricing would be down 1%, we were up 1%. You know, it's not, the world isn't going to stop turning, but it's modestly better than we had expected. And I would hope that the rest of the summer would continue like that. Eddie, you want to add to that (multiple speakers) --

因此，我們仍然相信，我們正進入一個相當溫和的時期，流量成長前景被限制在 3% 左右，可能是 3% 或 3%。目前來看，定價看起來相當溫和。我的意思是，如果你看看第三季度，我們預計第三季度的價格將下降 1%，而我們的價格上漲了 1%。你知道，世界不會停止轉動，但它比我們預期的要好一些。我希望這個夏天的剩餘時間也能繼續這樣下去。Eddie，你想補充一下（多位發言者）——

And a lot of this capacity sometimes while it's planned by competitors ends up falling away, I mean, like, best estimates, you see like the European capacity be up, slightly maybe up about maybe 102% what it was in Pre-COVID, so it's, I would echo what Michael says there. You don't see it like when we grow by 20% in places like Morocco, it's an open piece there, the same like Italy and its ability to absorb capacity, goes on and on.

有時，競爭對手規劃的許多運力最終都會下降，我的意思是，根據最佳估計，你會看到歐洲的運力會略有上升，可能比新冠疫情之前上升 102% 左右，所以我同意邁克爾的說法。你不會看到，當我們在摩洛哥等地成長 20% 時，那裡是一片開放狀態，義大利也是如此，其吸收產能的能力也不斷增強。

You know, we do 65 million passengers, like in Italy and you look at our largest market and we're able to do that in the regions where nobody else has put that in. You look like on domestic, we have six routes there, we have 123 domestic routes.

你知道，我們的客流量達到 6500 萬人次，例如在義大利，你看看我們最大的市場，我們能夠在其他人都沒有進入的地區做到這一點。看起來在國內，我們有 6 條航線，我們有 123 條國內航線。

You know, our ability to leverage that network down there just gives us more options and we don't see those large moving parts from other airlines. Look at easyJet have gone into Linate as you know, while we have the two larger airports there in terms of Bergamo and Malpensa. So we're not seeing it in that it's not playing out that way in individual markets.

您知道，我們利用那裡的網路的能力為我們提供了更多的選擇，而且我們沒有看到其他航空公司的那些大型活動部件。如你所知，易捷航空已進軍利納特機場，而我們在那裡還有兩個較大的機場，分別是貝加莫機場和馬爾彭薩機場。因此，我們沒有看到這種情況，因為它在個別市場中並沒有以這種方式發揮作用。

Okay. Neil, want to touch on unit cost? And I'll ask Tracey to come in here as well.

好的。尼爾，想談談單位成本嗎？我還會請特蕾西也來這裡。

Sure, Jaime, and everybody else, first and foremost, I would reference you to the MD&NA which does a pretty good job in going line by line on the unit cost. But in the quarter itself, we're very pleased where we finished top down 1% on total unit costs fuel, offsetting a lot of the headwinds that we've been calling out since the start of the year.

當然，Jaime，以及其他所有人，首先，我會向你們推薦 MD&NA，它在逐行列出單位成本方面做得相當出色。但就本季而言，我們非常高興燃料總單位成本下降了 1%，抵消了今年年初以來我們一直在呼籲的許多不利因素。

The likes of the extra crewing ratio due to Boeing delivery delays, the productivity pay increases that we implemented at the back end of last year coming through this year and driving some labor inflation in the business.

由於波音公司交貨延遲而導致的額外機組人員比例，以及我們去年年底實施的生產率提高到今年，並導致了企業的一些勞動力通膨。

We have 36 extra aircraft in the fleet, 9% more sectors, and traffic driving some of the movements on a number of the other line items on maintenance because we haven't had the game changers in the volumes that we would have expected, putting more cycles on some of the older aircraft and driving that up a little bit, [FX] adverse in the quarter, but that's all set by a positive foreign currency impact below the line and then on the marketing distribution and other, we've got a one off legal charge that we've taken in the quarter.

我們的機隊增加了 36 架飛機，增加了 9% 的航段，並且交通量推動了維護中許多其他項目的變動，因為我們的飛行量​​並沒有像預期的那樣發生改變，增加了一些較舊飛機的飛行週期，並使其略有上升，[外匯] 在本季度產生了不利影響，但這一切都是由線下外匯的一次性成本以及行銷的

So overall, very pleased with how the unit costs have gone broadly flat on a full year basis and some of those headwinds will start to dissipate into next year. We hope to be nowhere near as highly over-crewed as we were this year with the aircraft coming in from Boeing and the planning that we've put in place, we'd have lacked the productivity pay increases into next year as well.

因此總體而言，我們對單位成本在全年基礎上基本持平感到非常滿意，並且其中一些不利因素將在明年開始消散。我們希望今年的機組人員過剩情況不會像今年這樣嚴重，因為波音公司的飛機以及我們已經制定的計劃，我們明年也將缺乏生產力工資的成長。

Route charges have gone up, they've gone up for everybody. ATC, ground handling, that kind of stuff is still going up. But Eddie and the commercial team doing a good job on airports. But we're going through our budget at the moment, we need to see what the impact of the slower growth will have on the numbers. And realistically, we will give more color on unit costs when we come out in May.

路線費用上漲了，所有人的費用都漲了。空中交通管制、地面處理等工作仍在進行中。但是 Eddie 和商業團隊在機場方面做得很好。但我們目前正在審查預算，我們需要看看成長放緩將對數字產生什麼影響。實際上，我們將在五月發佈時對單位成本提供更多說明。

[Tracey, anything to add on newer comps]?

[Tracey，關於較新的作品還有什麼要補充的嗎？

The biggest thing behind them all which Neil has gone through there is labor inflation which is driving into a lot of them has a bit of an impact on that maintenance line as well. And again, the strength that we're seeing on the dollar at the moment, having some impact on maintenance, which more or less offset itself. And then the biggest one which we see to continue for next year again, increased on route charges again, which unfortunately is linked to an improvement in ATC performance, but that's going to continue.

尼爾經歷的最大問題是勞動力通膨，這對他們中的許多人來說也產生了一定影響。而且，我們目前看到的美元走強對維護產生了一定影響，但這種影響或多或少被抵消了。然後，我們預計最大的挑戰將在明年繼續存在，那就是航線費用將再次增加，不幸的是，這與空中交通管制績效的改善有關，但這種情況將會持續下去。

We've already seen the charges have been published for FY25 calendar and we're seeing an increase again that. But other than that, as Neil said, we are reviewing the budget at the moment and going through each cost line in detail.

我們已經看到 FY25 日曆的費用已經公佈，我們看到費用再次增加。但除此之外，正如尼爾所說，我們目前正在審查預算，並詳細檢查每項成本。

You know, and it's just a muted cost. There are upsides, we're now, as we said, we're 75% hedged into FY26 and $77 a barrel. You know, that's a $2 barrel saving over where we were this year. You know, all the indications are that the Trump administration will encourage more certainly US oil production and we could see further falls in fuel and oil which would benefit all airlines across the piece.

你知道，這只是一種隱性成本。也有好處，正如我們所說，現在我們已經對 26 財年和每桶 77 美元的價格進行了 75% 的對沖。你知道，這比我們今年每桶省了2美元。你知道，所有跡像都表明，川普政府將更肯定地鼓勵美國石油生產，我們可能會看到燃料和石油價格進一步下跌，這將使所有航空公司受益。

I think if you look at our cost, they're running marginally ahead of the 9% growth in traffic for the nine month period but only very marginally. I think it's another exceptional cost performance in a year where at the start of the year, we were facing into significant potential inflation both in airport staff and route charges.

我想，如果你看看我們的成本，它們在九個月期間的流量成長率略有領先，但只是非常領先。我認為這是今年的另一個卓越的成本表現，因為在年初，我們面臨著機場工作人員和航線費用的潛在巨大通膨。

And I think we're continuing to demonstrate, we manage costs better than any other airline in Europe and certainly below the line. If you look at the net finance, we will be debt free in the next 18 months when most of our competitors have a significant amount of either debt or finance lease -- finance lease expenditure.

我認為我們正在繼續證明，我們的成本管理比歐洲任何其他航空公司都要好，而且肯定低於標準。如果你看一下淨融資額，我們會在未來 18 個月內擺脫債務，而我們的大多數競爭對手都有大量的債務或融資租賃——融資租賃支出。

And we're looking, I think in the medium term at higher interest rates and significantly higher lease rentals, whereas we own the fleet, it will be unencumbered and we will be debt-free in the next 18 months, which will drive an enormous difference or further widen the gap between us and our competitors.

我認為，我們中期面臨著更高的利率和大幅上漲的租金，而我們擁有自己的船隊，它將不受任何阻礙，我們將在未來 18 個月內擺脫債務，這將產生巨大的差異，或進一步擴大我們與競爭對手之間的差距。

Thanks, Jaime.

謝謝，傑米。

Next question please.

請回答下一個問題。

Jarrod Castle, UBS.

瑞銀的賈羅德‧卡斯爾 (Jarrod Castle)。

You touched on President Trump and I don't want to get too much into things, but obviously, he's made a lot of commentary about the environment and I guess the airline industry has got a very big ramp up in terms of what they face. How do you think if anything it's going to have an impact, you know, for Ryanair and short haul or for the industry as a whole, if you know, given potentially what it means for American Aviation?

您提到了川普總統，我不想談論太多，但顯然，他對環境發表了很多評論，我想航空業面臨的情況已經發生了非常大的轉變。您認為這會對瑞安航空、短途航空或整個航空業產生什麼影響？

And then secondly, just any thoughts on kind of other areas of auxiliaries that you may or may not be pushing into summer 2025 that would be very useful. Thanks.

其次，對於您可能會或可能不會推進到 2025 年夏季的其他輔助領域，您有什麼想法會非常有用。謝謝。

Okay, I'll say the first, look, we're all kind of waiting to see what Trump will do. And I think the more immediate ones is, I think he's certainly right in terms of increasing oil production, driving down oil prices would have -- I mean, there is if you want to kind of fix the Ukraine -- war in Ukraine drive oil prices down, nothing will bring the Russians to the negotiating table faster.

好的，首先我想說，我們都在等著看川普會做什麼。我認為更直接的問題是，我認為他在增加石油產量、降低油價方面肯定是正確的——我的意思是，如果你想解決烏克蘭問題——烏克蘭戰爭會導致油價下跌，沒有什麼能比這更快地讓俄羅斯人坐到談判桌前。

And I think there's a lot of concern about trade and trade issues, and I think, Ireland and Europe has a significant card to play in the form of Ryanair. You know, we are the biggest customer for Boeing, we buy American manufactured aircraft.

我認為人們對貿易和貿易問題非常擔憂，而且我認為，愛爾蘭和歐洲在瑞安航空方面擁有重要的一手牌。你知道，我們是波音公司的最大客戶，我們購買美國製造的飛機。

We have about $35 billion worth of orders for American manufactured aircraft. And I think we therefore will be a key calling card for the Irish government in their trade discussions with the US. Nobody buys more aircraft -- American made aircraft than Ryanair does. And we operate here in Europe with a fleet of American made Boeing 737 where I think we're able to show that we can meet and beat a lot of our Airbus competitors.

我們有價值約350億美元的美國製造飛機訂單。因此我認為，我們將成為愛爾蘭政府在與美國貿易談判中的重要名片。沒有人比瑞安航空購買更多的飛機——美國製造的飛機。我們在歐洲擁有一支由美國製造的波音 737 組成的機隊，我認為我們能夠證明我們能夠匹敵並擊敗許多空中巴士競爭對手。

You know, if there is an early peace dividend in the Middle East or in Ukraine, that would clearly be welcome. We do expect to go back flying to Tel Aviv on the when they reopen the low cost terminal on the, at the end of March for the summer schedule, we would be very supportive of anything that brings about a -- certainly a ceasefire or some sort of enduring peace and reopens the skies over Ukraine.

你知道，如果中東或烏克蘭能夠儘早實現和平紅利，那顯然會受到歡迎。我們確實希望在 3 月底重新開放低成本航站樓以執行夏季航班計劃時重新飛往特拉維夫，我們將非常支持任何能夠帶來停火或某種持久和平並重新開放烏克蘭領空的舉措。

We will be the first airline back into Ukraine when it does reopen. We were the largest, one of the largest areas in Ukraine prior to the Russian invasion and we would love to go back there.

當烏克蘭重新開放時，我們將成為第一家返回烏克蘭的航空公司。在俄羅斯入侵之前，我們是烏克蘭最大的地區之一，我們很想回到那裡。

So I would think net-net, who knows, but if Trump could bring down or increased oil production and drive down oil prices, certainly that would be good for the world economy in general, it would certainly be good for air travel and it would certainly be good for tourism and economic growth across Europe. Although maybe not in the UK where Rachel Reeves will find some new way to raise f****** taxes on the air travel, but there's rabbiting about a new runway in Heathrow in about 50 years' time. Eddie, you want to touch on ancillary?

所以我認為，誰知道呢，但如果川普能夠減少或增加石油產量並壓低油價，這肯定會對整個世界經濟有利，肯定會對航空旅行有利，肯定會對整個歐洲的旅遊業和經濟成長有利。雖然英國可能不會有像 Rachel Reeves 這樣的人物，但她會想出一些新辦法來提高航空旅行的稅收，而且大約 50 年後希思羅機場會建造一條新跑道。艾迪，你想談談輔助功能嗎？

Yeah, I don't think you're going to see anything major from new initiatives. But I think we're just getting better with the cards that we have. And if you look at the core ancillaries of related supplies of (inaudible), priority, and seats, what you're seeing there is you know, better applications by Labs here in integrating those decisions by consumers. And the models are getting better at that.

是的，我認為你不會看到新舉措帶來任何重大進展。但我認為，我們利用現有的卡片會做得更好。如果您查看（聽不清楚）、優先順序和席位的相關供應的核心輔助設備，您會看到實驗室在整合消費者決策方面提供了更好的應用程式。而模型在這方面也變得越來越好。

And we're learning all the time, particularly on the seats, which is relatively new in the evolution of ancillaries. So I think you're going to see more improvement there. And then ultimately, it's not in the near term where you'll see that that model morphing into total revenue and getting it.

我們一直在學習，特別是在座椅方面，這在輔助設備的發展中相對較新。所以我認為你會看到那裡有更多的進步。最後，在短期內你不會看到該模型轉變為總收入並獲得成功。

But we got to fix scheduled revenue first in terms of dynamic pricing before we'd attempt it to integrate it all together. And then you're looking at on board spend where that new initiative again developed here by Labs of ordered. The seat is now well over 10% now of people ordering directly and the average transaction value is higher. And I think we're going to see, you'll see a tipping point at some stage.

但在嘗試將所有內容整合在一起之前，我們必須先根據動態定價來確定預定的收入。然後，您正在查看船上支出，這是由實驗室再次開發的新舉措。現在直接訂餐的人數已超過 10%，而且平均交易價值更高。我認為我們將會看到，在某個階段你會看到一個轉捩點。

I don't know whether that's going to be a 20% or 30%, where people will see that they can just order directly from seat rather than waiting for the equivalent of somebody in a retail environment of shoving the shelves around to the consumer rather than the consumer ordering directly to their. So a lot of work going on, Labs are behind this, and nothing spectacular, but it's a slow plodding way to get through to finesse those models.

我不知道這個比例會是 20% 還是 30%，人們會發現他們可以直接在座位上訂餐，而不必等待零售環境中的人員將貨架推到消費者面前，而不是消費者直接到他們那裡訂餐。因此，實驗室正在進行大量工作，雖然沒有什麼了不起的成果，但這是一種緩慢而艱難的方式來完善這些模型。

I think Labs have made dramatic gains in the last quarter. We've now rolled out our operating the inhouse operating system which was designed in house by Labs. It has now taken over running the operations in Warsaw, Malta, Dublin here.

我認為實驗室在上個季度取得了顯著的成長。我們現在已經推出了由實驗室內部設計的內部作業系統。目前，它已經接管了華沙、馬耳他、都柏林的業務。

We are looking to go 100% automated boarding passes here in advance of the summer that will give us much more kind of tactile communications with all of our passengers and be able to also to incentivize them and hopefully to improve conversion.

我們希望在夏季來臨之前實現 100% 自動化登機證，這樣我們就可以與所有乘客進行更多形式的觸覺交流，並能夠激勵他們，並希望提高轉換率。

So Labs continues to make a very meaningful difference and I think we're very close to a long term agreement with our [Navitaire 2] on the booking engine which will take us, we will extend our agreement with them out into [2030 -- 2034].

因此，實驗室繼續發揮非常有意義的作用，我認為我們與 Navitaire 2 就預訂引擎達成的長期協議已經非常接近，我們將與他們的協議延長到[2030--2034]。

But Labs are also working over the medium term on a long term in-house bookings engine ourselves where you know, if we want to, we can replace Navitaire at some at any time, either before 2034 or in 2034. So Labs continues to roll out enormous cost savings across the piece.

但實驗室也在中期內致力於開發一個長期的內部預訂引擎，如果我們願意，我們可以在任何時候（無論是在 2034 年之前還是在 2034 年之內）替換 Navitaire。因此，實驗室繼續在各方面大幅節省成本。

Next question. Thanks, Jared.

下一個問題。謝謝，賈里德。

Savanthi Syth, Raymond James.

Savanthi Syth，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Two questions from me, please just. I apologize if I missed this. But can you talk about how you're thinking about CapEx, given the revised outlook of deliveries? And then can I -- in terms of -- for the second question, in terms of kind of fiscal '26, I know on the jet fuel side, we have a lot of visibility. But could you talk about what you're expecting in terms of your rear pressure from the new staff requirements and the kind of the decline in ETS allowances.

請問我兩個問題。如果我錯過了這個，我深感抱歉。但是，考慮到交付前景的修改，您能談談您對資本支出的看法嗎？然後我可以 - 就 - 第二個問題而言，就財政 26 而言，我知道在航空燃料方面，我們有很大可見性。但是，您能否談談您對新員工要求以及 ETS 配額下降所帶來的壓力的預期？

Okay. Tracey, why don't you answer the CapEx and the revised delivery? And then we touch on FY26, Thomas Fowler brief us on the FY26 on the staff.

好的。Tracey，為什麼不回答資本支出和修訂後的交付？然後我們談到 FY26，Thomas Fowler 向我們簡要介紹了 FY26 的員工狀況。

So in terms of CapEx, our guidance for this year will come down on the basis that some of the aircrafts are delivered into next year. So we'll probably be at about 1.7 to 1.8 for this year. I'm probably looking at about -- this year being FY25. And then for FY26 based on what we're seeing, but again, I caution that the budget still being done at the moment, we've approved CapEx of about 1.7 due to the aircraft rolling into next year. But we'll finalize that as we close out the budget as well.

因此，就資本支出而言，我們今年的指導價格將根據部分飛機明年交付的情況而下降。因此今年我們大概會達到 1.7 到 1.8 左右。我大概正在考慮——今年是 FY25。然後根據我們所看到的情況，對於 FY26，但再次提醒，目前預算仍在製定中，由於飛機將於明年投入使用，我們已批准約 1.7 的資本支出。但是當我們結束預算時我們也會最終確定這一點。

Okay. And Thomas the impact on FY26.

好的。托馬斯對 FY26 產生了影響。

Just on FY26, Savi. So obviously, although we're losing some free [ETS] allowances, we are better hedged than FY26. So we're had us under 70% hedged at EUR61 per carbon credit versus 76% in FY24. We do have the 2% flat mandate. So we expect to, at the moment, to build -- rise from just over $850 million in FY24 to over $1 billion in FY26 with the staff mandates as well. So that's where our working assumption is at the moment.

就在 FY26，薩維。因此顯然，儘管我們失去了一些免費的 [ETS] 配額，但我們的對沖能力比 FY26 要好。因此，我們對每個碳信用額的對沖比例低於 70%，為 61 歐元，而 24 財年這一比例為 76%。我們確實有 2% 的固定利率任務。因此，我們目前預計，到 2026 財年，這一數字將從 2024 財年的 8.5 億美元增至 10 億美元以上，同時員工人數也將增加。這就是我們目前的工作假設。

Okay. Thanks, Thomas. Thanks, Savi.

好的。謝謝，托馬斯。謝謝，薩維。

Next question, please.

請回答下一個問題。

Muneeba Kayani, BofA.

Muneeba Kayani，美國銀行。

Firstly, just on compensation. So you had some compensation, you said modest this year. Can you explain to us how this works? Is that compensation for deliveries right now? And kind of just trying to get a sense of would you continue to get compensation in FY26, given the delivery delays that you've talked about?

首先，僅談賠償。所以你得到了一些補償，你說今年的補償很少。你能向我們解釋一下這是如何運作的嗎？這就是現在送貨的補償嗎？並且，考慮到您談到的交貨延遲，您只是想了解一下，您是否會在 2026 財年繼續獲得補償？

And then secondly, just on fares, what have you seen in the fare trend in January, February, kind of has the strength continued from Christmas because the Easter impact is just March? So just trying to understand the current trend.

其次，就票價而言，您看到一月和二月的票價趨勢如何？只是想了解當前的趨勢。

Let's touch on the Boeing. I think it's a bit unfortunate. We have to describe it as something, so we call it compensation. What we're really getting from Boeing and it's in response to repeated delay -- delivery delays of the aircraft.

讓我們來談談波音公司。我認為這有點不幸。我們必須把它描述成某種東西，所以我們稱之為補償。我們從波音公司真正得到的是對飛機交付一再延遲的回應。

We're getting some credit memos, which we can apply against goods and services we buy for them on an ongoing basis. The numbers are small. It is not meaningful or significant. And compensation is probably the wrong word to use, but we're just getting negotiating some credit members. Boeing has given us some breaks. I think they're embarrassed by the delivery delays.

我們收到了一些信用備忘錄，可以用來抵扣我們為他們持續購買的商品和服務。數量很少。這既沒有意義，也不重要。補償這個詞可能不太合適，但我們只是在與一些信用成員進行談判。波音公司給了我們一些喘息的機會。我認為他們對交貨延遲感到尷尬。

I mean they're now delayed over the previous -- we're now getting further delays on what had previously been agreed as delayed delivery. The 29 aircraft that we will get in advance of March '26 should originally have been delivered in advance of March '25. So we are getting a small amount of credit memoranda, credit notes against goods and service, we would expect to get a similar or something similar again next year and then hopefully, there will be no more after that.

我的意思是，他們現在比以前更拖延了——之前商定的延遲交貨現在又被進一步拖延了。我們將在 26 年 3 月之前收到的 29 架飛機原本應該在 25 年 3 月之前交付。因此，我們收到了少量的信用備忘錄、針對貨物和服務的信用票據，我們預計明年會再次收到類似或類似的東西，然後希望此後不會再有更多這樣的票據。

We don't want as I keep saying to Boeing, I don't want compensation. I want my aircraft. I would make much more money. If I had Boeing delivered me the additional 20-odd aircraft that we were supposed to get for summer 2024, we would have done this year close to 210 million passengers, and we would have made much more than the very small, mid-double-digit value of those credit memorandum. We would expect to get something again next year.

正如我一直對波音公司說的，我們不要賠償。我想要我的飛機。我會賺更多的錢。如果波音公司能按計劃在 2024 年夏季向我交付額外的 20 多架飛機，那麼今年我們的乘客數量將接近 2.1 億人次，我們的收入也將遠遠超過這些信用備忘錄中非常小的中兩位數價值。我們希望明年能夠再次取得一些成果。

But again, it's very small, and it is a distraction. The sooner we can get the aircraft in a constrained market in Europe, the more we can kind of deploy them, the more we can take out that market share, and we will hold on to it over the longer term. Q4, prices in January are modestly up. I don't want to put a number on it. Prices in February are modestly up.

但同樣，它非常小，而且容易分散注意力。我們越早將飛機投入歐洲有限的市場，我們就能越多地部署它們，我們就能奪取更多的市場份額，並且我們將在更長時間內保住它。Q4，1月價格小漲。我不想給它加上數字。二月份價格略有上漲。

January was, I think, slightly distorted by a very strong Christmas and New Year period. We had lots of people booking late -- and we did see -- so pricing in January is up slightly more than it is in February. February is up, but it's more modest. And then March is significantly down.

我認為，一月受到聖誕節和新年時期的強烈影響。我們確實看到很多人晚點預訂，所以一月份的價格比二月略有上漲。二月雖然有所上漲，但漲幅較為溫和。3 月則明顯下降。

And so it really doesn't help to get into month-by-month granular, April is significantly up, but -- and we have too little visibility for May, June, and July at this stage. I think it's much more helpful though, to look at it in a kind of if you take the summer of 2026 at this stage, I think it's much more helpful to look at in terms of forward bookings are running about 1% headway they were at this time last year, and the pricing at the moment is modestly up.

因此，逐月分析其實沒有幫助，4 月的數據顯著上漲，但 — — 目前我們對 5 月、6 月和 7 月的數據了解甚少。不過，我認為從某個角度來看，如果以 2026 年夏天為例，那麼從遠期預訂量來看，會更有幫助，與去年同期相比，這一數字增長了約 1%，而目前的價格略有上漲。

And I'm not putting any definition on modestly. There's lots of analysts out there who are pricing models, and they can tell you that it's the pricing looks strong. Our competitors in recent months on their commentary, Jet2, easyJet are all seeing reasonably strong bookings into the Easter and into the summer and pricing looks like it will be kind of modestly up.

而我沒有對謙虛做出任何定義。有很多分析師都在做定價模型，他們可以告訴你它的定價看起來很強大。根據我們最近幾個月的評論，我們的競爭對手 Jet2、easyJet 都看到復活節和夏季的預訂量相當強勁，而且價格看起來也會小幅上漲。

So I would have said for the summer this year, modest cautious optimism is where we should be but we're not putting numbers on it. We have in the past tried to put numbers on it. And then when the number proves to be wrong, we get criticized for poor communications and everything else. So we'll let you guess yourselves because your guess is as good as mine at this stage.

因此我想說，對於今年夏天，我們應該保持適度謹慎的樂觀態度，但我們不會給出具體的數字。我們過去曾嘗試用數字來量化這一點。但當事實證明數字有誤時，我們又因溝通不良等問題而受到批評。所以我們讓你們自己猜，因為現階段你們的猜測和我的一樣好。

All I can point back to is capacity is heavily constrained, we're more constrained than we've ever been before in our history at just kind of 3% traffic growth for the next 12 months. And the initial pricing and forward booking numbers into the March quarter and into the June and September quarter, look, I think, cautiously optimistic, but I wouldn't want to get -- I wouldn't want to say any more other than that. It all looks okay. It doesn't look -- it looks fine. We're much more focused here on managing the costs into the summer deploying the aircraft.

我所能指出的是，運能受到嚴重限制，我們面臨的限制比歷史上任何時候都要大，未來 12 個月的客流量成長率僅 3%。而 3 月份季度以及 6 月份和 9 月份季度的初始定價和預售數字看起來，我認為是謹慎樂觀的，但除此之外我不想再多說什麼了。一切看起來都還好。看起來不太好。我們更加重視管理夏季部署飛機的成本。

And I think the new routes team have done tragic work on those churn negotiations. And I think there's a real sign of change in Europe. When you get governments like Sweden, Hungary, regional Italy, abolishing aviation taxes, this is where the future -- if Europe is serious about its competitiveness and growth -- you look to what the Monty report has done, reform, you're completely f******* and failed air traffic control system in Europe.

我認為新航線團隊在這些客戶流失談判中做出了悲慘的工作。我認為歐洲確實出現了變化的跡象。當瑞典、匈牙利、義大利等地區的政府取消航空稅時，這就是未來——如果歐洲認真對待其競爭力和成長——你看看蒙蒂報告所做的改革，你會發現歐洲的空中交通管制系統完全失敗了。

Staff of property for the first wave of flight -- protect overflights during national and this idiotic and penal aviation taxes which we only levy on European citizens. And then we exempted the most polluting long-haul and non-European airlines from any penalty whatsoever. So there's lots of [off sides].

為第一波飛行提供財產保障的工作人員——在國家飛行期間保護飛越，以及我們只對歐洲公民徵收的愚蠢而懲罰性的航空稅。然後，我們免除了污染最嚴重的長途航空公司和非歐洲航空公司的任何處罰。因此有很多[越位]。

Thanks, Muneeba. Next question, please.

謝謝，Muneeba。請回答下一個問題。

Alex Irving, Bernstein.

亞歷克斯歐文、伯恩斯坦。

Two for me, please. First, I'd like to come back on the ancillaries. So ancillaries revenue of passenger is back to growing again, slight year on year the previous two quarters. And I see the acceleration here. Can you get back to the 2% to 3% growth you used to experience across FY23, FY24?

請給我兩份。首先，我想回顧一下輔助設備。因此，客運輔助收入又開始成長，但與前兩季相比略有成長。我看到了這裡的加速。您能否恢復到 23 財年和 24 財年期間的 2% 到 3% 的成長水準？

Second question, recent suggestions in the UK about expanding capacity at Gatwick Airport. Is that interesting to you with a higher revenue opportunity? Or is that really too high cost?

第二個問題，最近英國方面有關於擴大蓋特威克機場容量的建議。這對您來說是否有趣並且具有更高的收入機會？還是說成本實在太高了？

Okay. I'll take the second one first, and I'll get Eddie detail. Look, I mean it's just PR flimflam coming out of Rachel Reeves. They expand the capacity at Gatwick or a second runway at Gatwick or a third runway at Heathrow will take 20, 25, 30 years. They are nowhere near this.

好的。我會先選擇第二個，然後我會得到 Eddie 的詳細資訊。聽著，我的意思是這只是 Rachel Reeves 的公關花招。擴大蓋特威克機場的容量或建造蓋特威克機場的第二條跑道或希思羅機場的第三條跑道將需要 20、25、30 年。他們還遠遠沒有達到這個程度。

Meanwhile, she's increasing APD, which is one of the most penal and idiotic aviation taxes in Europe on an island on the periphery of Europe.

同時，她還在提高 APD 稅，這是歐洲邊緣島嶼上最嚴格、最愚蠢的航空稅之一。

They have no plan for regional growth, absolutely nothing going on in regional growth. And in fact, even if you did deliver a third runway in Heathrow, all it would benefit in London. If you really want to start delivering growth and particularly growth across the regions of Europe, abolish APD, scrap it, and you would see dramatic investment in capacity and airports like Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Bristol, Glasgow, and Edinburgh who have capacity to grow.

他們沒有區域成長計劃，區域成長方面根本沒有任何進展。事實上，即使希斯路機場建造第三條跑道，其受益的只會是倫敦。如果你真的想開始實現成長，特別是整個歐洲地區的成長，那麼就廢除 APD，將其廢棄，你會看到對機場容量和曼徹斯特、利物浦、伯明翰、布里斯托爾、格拉斯哥和愛丁堡等機場的巨額投資，這些機場都有成長能力。

You don't have to wait 25 years or fight with the Mayor of London or anything else. And yes, they haven't even got that right. So would Gatwick if it expanded be of interest to us? It would probably be of interest to the next management or to the second -- probably the next two management teams in Ryanair because it will be at least look in 20 years by the time it gets here.

您不必等待 25 年，也不必與倫敦市長或其他任何人爭鬥。是的，他們甚至還沒有搞清楚這一點。那麼，如果蓋特威克機場擴建，我們會引起它的興趣嗎？它可能會引起瑞安航空下屆管理層或第二屆——可能是下兩屆管理團隊的興趣，因為當它到來時，至少需要 20 年的時間。

Expansion in Luton could be delivered more quickly. And but I was amazed -- there was no mention of Hampstead. And if there was one airport in London that you could actually expand reasonably quickly because all it requires a bit of terminal capacity expansion, and it didn't even get mentioned. So I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the Labor Government plan for adding runways in the Southeast of England. They have runways all over regional UK, which could grow tomorrow. All they have do is to abolish that idiotic APD tax.

盧頓的擴張可以更快實現。但令我驚訝的是——沒有提到漢普斯特德。如果倫敦有一個機場，它實際上可以相當快地擴建，因為它只需要一點航站樓容量擴建，但這甚至沒有被提及。因此，我對工黨政府在英格蘭東南部增建跑道的計劃不抱太大希望。他們的跑道遍布英國各地，而且明天的跑道面積還可能會擴大。他們要做的就是廢除那項愚蠢的 APD 稅。

Eddie, ancillaries? .

艾迪，輔助設備？。

Yeah. Alex, it is very difficult to speculate on percentages like a year or two. But I mean this is steady flooding, as I would say, because you want something that sticks or the models, the models actually work. And the team from Labs that work on this in terms of -- I think what you've seen this year is that they're integrating the sort of total pricing. And as I said earlier, the next iterative step on that is to put in scheduled revenue, but scheduled revenue is somewhere to go.

是的。亞歷克斯，很難推測一年或兩年的百分比。但我的意思是，正如我所說，這是穩定的洪水，因為你想要一些可以黏住的東西或模型，這些模型實際上可以起作用。實驗室致力於此的團隊——我想您今年看到的是他們正在整合某種整體定價。正如我之前所說，下一步迭代就是投入預定收入，但預定收入還有去處。

Everybody just looks at what they paid on their credit card each month. So yes, there is upside on that. There is upside particularly on board as well, but I wouldn't want to speculate that we get back to that level, much more intense on making it actually work and stick.

每個人只看自己每月用信用卡支付了多少錢。是的，這確實有好處。船上也存在上行空間，但我不想推測我們會回到那個水平，而是更致力於使其真正發揮作用並堅持下去。

Alex, for your models, you should be thinking about [1 to 2] in the next year or two.

亞歷克斯，對於你的模型，你應該考慮在未來一兩年內實現 [1 到 2]。

On top of growth.

在成長之上。

Next question, please.

請回答下一個問題。

Gerald Khoo, Panmure Liberum.

Gerald Khoo，《Panmure Liberum》。

First, I was wondering if you could expand on the legal charge within marketing and other. I think you said it was one-off, but it does seem to -- presumably CP is rather large. I was just wondering if you could explain what the nature of that was and what sort of -- what we should be assuming sort of the underlying trend for that cost line?

首先，我想知道您是否可以詳細說明行銷和其他方面的法律費用。我認為您說過它是一次性的，但它確實似乎——大概 CP 相當大。我只是想知道您是否可以解釋一下它的本質以及我們應該如何假設該成本線的潛在趨勢？

And secondly, I think you said that you booked delay compensation within interest income or interest income -- interest and other income. Why is that presentation changed from before? And is that because the nature of the compensation is different. I think in the past that we've seen some movements come through, sort of reversals of CapEx and then in other -- in sort of reversal of other costs?

其次，我認為您說過您在利息收入或利息收入（利息和其他收入）中預訂了延遲補償。為什麼該演示與以前有所不同？這是因為賠償的性質不同。我認為在過去我們已經看到了一些動向，例如資本支出的逆轉以及其他成本的逆轉？

Juliusz, you to do with the -- the small amount of compensation and the treatment. The legal charges despite Spanish baggage fine, which in our view, is completely illegal. It's in breach to EU law. -- they've used a 1960 piece of legislation in France, about 15 years before Spain even joined the European Commission to impose, in our case, a fine of EUR107 million and has no bearing in reality. We think it is no legal standing item.

Juliusz，你要做的就是──少量的賠償和治療。儘管西班牙對行李有罰款，但法律仍規定要收取費用，我們認為這完全是違法的。這違反了歐盟法律。 ——他們依據法國 1960 年的一項立法（大約在西班牙加入歐盟委員會的 15 年前）對我們處以 1.07 億歐元的罰款，但這與現實毫無關係。我們認為這不是合法的立項。

We expect the European Commission to overrule it. But Juliusz, you want to touch the detail of the -- what the charge we've taken and your view on the baggage fine.

我們預計歐盟委員會將會否決該決議。但是 Juliusz，你想了解一下細節——我們收取的費用以及你對行李罰款的看法。

Yeah. Thanks, Michael. Gerald. So if you follow Spanish media, you couldn't have missed the fact that Ryanair and five other airlines were fined in late November, a total of EUR170 million primarily in relation to carbon baggage policies applied by ourselves and those other airlines. I think that I try not to get emotive with those things, but this fine is outrageous.

是的。謝謝，麥可。傑拉爾德。因此，如果您關注西班牙媒體，您就不會錯過這樣一個事實：瑞安航空和其他五家航空公司在 11 月底被罰款，總額為 1.7 億歐元，主要與我們和其他航空公司實施的碳行李政策有關。我認為我已經嘗試不對這些事情產生情緒，但這種罰款實在太過分了。

It is a clear breach of EU Law. EU Law is clear on this point. And even more so the EU court in the dwelling judgment about 10 years ago clarified the issues around budget charges that can be imposed by airlines and made it clear that cabin baggage charges are lawful.

這明顯違反了歐盟法律。歐盟法律對這一點有明確的規定。更重要的是，歐盟法院在大約 10 年前的判決中澄清了航空公司可以徵收的行李費用問題，並明確表示收取機艙行李費用是合法的。

So we fell victim local politics in Spain with a minority partner in the current ruling coalition in Spain, trying to essentially make a name for his party for himself and leading with this very, very big fine unprecedented really.

因此，我們與西班牙現任執政聯盟中的少數黨夥伴一起成為西班牙地方政治的犧牲品，他們試圖為自己政黨揚名，並因此受到史無前例的巨額罰款。

So the issue will end up in Spanish courts and ultimately, Spanish courts do not overturn this mine. It will end up in the EU court in the CJU. It will take probably two to three years to get this sorted. But we are absolutely confident in our legal position. In the meantime, however, we have to provide for half of this fine to be shown in the accounts in the form of that legal charge. And hopefully, this will be reversed when we are successful with our appeals..

因此，該問題最終將由西班牙法院審理，而最終西班牙法院不會推翻該礦的判決。該案件最終將在歐盟最高法院審理。解決這個問題大概需要兩到三年的時間。但我們對我們的法律地位絕對有信心。但同時，我們必須規定將罰款的一半以法定費用的形式計入帳目中。希望當我們的上訴成功後，這種情況能夠扭轉。

Okay. Thank you. Neil the treatment of the Boeing credit.

好的。謝謝。尼爾對波音信貸的處理。

The compensation and the other income, I suppose, just on the legal charge, Gerald, that's an abundance of prudence in relation to that. On the compensation of, Michael is right and say, in the first half of the year, all of that modest compensation was in the form of goods and service credit memos.

我認為，賠償金和其他收入僅基於法律費用，傑拉爾德，這是對此極為審慎的。關於薪酬，麥可是對的，他說，在上半年，所有這些微薄的薪酬都是以貨物和服務信用備忘錄的形式支付的。

In the quarter end, it changed slightly in that we got some cash compensation, which didn't naturally fit in any of the other lines, so went into net finance and other income. We would anticipate to the extent that there is any more compensation that, that will most likely go back into the maintenance and materials with -- in the form of credit.

在季度末，情況略有變化，我們獲得了一些現金補償，這些補償自然不適合計入其他任何項目，因此進入了淨財務和其他收入。我們預計，如果有更多補償，這些補償很可能會以信用的形式返回維護和材料。

Okay. Thanks, Neil. Thanks, Gerald.

好的。謝謝，尼爾。謝謝，傑拉爾德。

Next question, please.

請回答下一個問題。

Andrew Lobbenberg, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的安德魯‧洛本伯格（Andrew Lobbenberg）。

Can you just tell us where you would get the airplanes from if something opens up in Ukraine, how quickly you'd be able to do that? And just on the OTAs, how are you going -- I think you said, most of them are implemented and functioning well, but is two up and running? Or is that one of the ones that isn't there yet? .

您能否告訴我們，如果烏克蘭出現進展，您將從哪裡獲得飛機，以及您多快能夠做到這一點？就 OTA 而言，您進展如何——我想您說過，大多數 OTA 都已實施並且運行良好，但是有兩個已經啟動並運行了嗎？或者它是尚未存在的之一？。

Okay. Ukraine, Andrew, we would use our existing aircraft. We have aircraft based at 94 aircraft -- or 94 bases across Europe. We would pivot and cancel some existing deployments of aircraft. So if you take -- we would be operating within six weeks of the skies reopening, we would be offering services back into Ukraine from Dublin, London, Brussels, and (inaudible), you name it, we'll be flying there.

好的。烏克蘭，安德魯，我們將使用我們現有的飛機。我們的飛機駐紮在 94 架飛機上——或者說在歐洲各地的 94 個基地上。我們將調整並取消一些現有的飛機部署。因此，如果您接受——我們將在天空重新開放後的六週內開始運營，我們將提供從都柏林、倫敦、布魯塞爾返回烏克蘭的服務，並且（聽不清楚），只要您說得出，我們就會飛往那裡。

But we would involve canceling say we may have to take something from Dublin to Morocco or Dublin to the Canary Islands or at Dublin somewhere.

但我們可能會取消一些行程，比如說，我們可能必須從都柏林飛往摩洛哥，或是從都柏林飛往加那利群島，或是在都柏林的某個地方。

But we've identified all of those. Excuse me, we think we will be operating about somewhere between 15 and 20 routes back into Ukraine, mostly Kyiv and Lviv, subsidy of those airports. And we are the only air that actually has that kind of capacity because we're so big as so many of those European airports because we have that spread. And we have so many Ukrainian citizens dispersed across Europe.

但我們已經識別了所有這些。對不起，我們認為我們將運營大約 15 到 20 條返回烏克蘭的航線，主要是基輔和利沃夫，並由這些機場提供補貼。而且我們實際上是唯一擁有這種運力的航空公司，因為我們的規模與許多歐洲機場一樣大，而且我們的業務覆蓋範圍很廣。而且我們有許多烏克蘭公民分散在歐洲各地。

We would be able to pivot and we think fill those aircraft pretty quickly, but it would mean a further cut to our existing capacity or existing routes elsewhere. But it would be our commitment to rebuilding Ukraine and investing heavily in Ukraine and in the reopening and the rebuilding of Ukraine.

我們可以進行調整，並認為這些飛機很快就會滿員，但這將意味著進一步削減我們現有的運力或現有的其他航線。但我們將致力於重建烏克蘭，並在烏克蘭重新開放和重建方面進行大量投資。

On the OTAs to ER, the only two we haven't yet, the only two who are still overcharging their customers of any scale is eDreams in Spain and Booking.com in the US. Booking.com are reasonably small in the overall scheme of things.

就 ER 的 OTA 而言，我們尚未涉足的僅有兩家，也只有兩家仍在大規模向客戶收取過高費用的 OTA 是西班牙的 eDreams 和美國的 Booking.com。從整體來看，Booking.com 的規模相對較小。

eDreams have a reasonable scale in Spain, but not across most of the rest of Europe. The deals we have done, though would account for more than 90% of all the OTAs, and we will be very happy. I mean we are indifferent as to whether eDreams or Booking.com sign up, but we will continue to point out in our monthly surveys and to the consumer agencies.

eDreams 在西班牙擁有相當的規模，但在歐洲其他大部分地區則尚未達到這一水平。我們已經達成的交易佔所有 OTA 的 90% 以上，我們會非常高興。我的意思是，我們對 eDreams 或 Booking.com 是否註冊並不關心，但我們會繼續在每月的調查中和向消費者機構指出這一點。

But these guys continue to inflate and overcharge their customers for Ryanair, Ryanair and other airline airfares and for Ryanair and other airline, airline services. And we are astonished as the failure of the European consumer agencies, the government to take any action on this rampant profit hearing or scalping of unsuspected consumers.

但這些人繼續向客戶提高瑞安航空、瑞安航空和其他航空公司的機票價格以及瑞安航空和其他航空公司的航空服務費用。令我們震驚的是，歐洲消費者機構和政府竟然沒有對這種猖獗的牟取暴利或倒賣消費者利益的行為採取任何行動。

Consumers believe that they're buying products and services of these people at lowest prices on the basis of some mythical price -- mythical price comparison, and they're getting pleased and overcharged by them every time they book.

消費者相信，他們是根據某種虛構的價格——虛構的價格比較，以最低的價格購買這些人的產品和服務，並且每次預訂時，他們都會感到滿意並被多收錢。

All of the others who we are now are approved OTAs, the Kiwis, on the beach, and many others are all now selling transparently. They have a direct -- we've eliminated for them the cost of screen scraping because we give them a direct pipe into Ryanair and they are able to show their customers and sell their customers, Ryanair prices for airfares and Ryanair prices for ancillaries.

現在，所有其他酒店都是經過批准的 OTA，Kiwis、on the beach 和許多其他酒店現在都以透明的方式銷售。他們有直接的——我們為他們消除了螢幕抓取的成本，因為我們為他們提供了直接進入瑞安航空的管道，他們可以向他們的客戶展示並銷售瑞安航空的機票價格和瑞安航空的輔助服務價格。

And I think they're seeing a significant recovery in their own sales with Ryanair over recent months, particularly over that key Christmas into New Year holiday booking period. Eddie, anything you want to add on?

我認為，近幾個月來，瑞安航空的銷售額出現了明顯復甦，尤其是在聖誕節至新年假期的關鍵預訂期間。艾迪，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yeah. I mean it won't be a surprise that like some of the newer technology-based ones are more agile and like the sort of pure operator, they generally have older technology stacks. So they're a little bit more challenged in getting up to full speed on that.

是的。我的意思是，一些基於較新技術的系統更加靈活，而純粹的操作員通常擁有較舊的技術堆疊，這並不奇怪。因此，他們在全面實現這一目標的過程中面臨更大的挑戰。

But you are seeing things like with OTAs now because of the stability of their ability to put product out there. They're now extending into winter breaks, which is which is good news as well, whereas they're not just concentrating on the sort of volume base in the summer. So the tour operators do lag a bit, but that's a function of their technology rather than their willingness to sell.

但現在您看到類似 OTA 的情況是因為它們推出產品的能力很穩定。現在他們已經將銷售延長到了冬季假期，這也是個好消息，而他們不再只關注夏季的銷售量。因此，旅行社確實有些落後，但這是他們的技術問題，而不是他們的銷售意願問題。

Thanks, Eddie.

謝謝，艾迪。

Okay, next question, please.

好的，請問下一個問題。

Johannes Braun from Stifel.

來自 Stifel 的 Johannes Braun。

Two questions for me. Firstly, you mentioned earlier that yields next fiscal year should benefit from the reduced growth. Obviously, the flip side is that there's a headwind for unit cost for you. given the lower growth. I think you mentioned that as well.

我有兩個問題。首先，您之前提到，下一財年的收益率應該會因成長放緩而受益。顯然，不利的一面是，您將面臨單位成本的阻力。鑑於增長較低。我想你也提到過這一點。

Obviously, difficult to say, but in your thinking, will this be a net positive or a net negative for profits next year? Any thoughts are welcome. Appreciate, it's difficult to say. And then secondly, here in Frankfurt, we are now only one year away from the integration of the new terminal, which will have a low-cost peer, basically, that's at the same time when you will eventually meeting next.

顯然，這很難說，但您認為，這對明年的利潤來說是淨利還是淨負利？歡迎任何想法。欣賞，很難說。其次，在法蘭克福，我們距離新航站樓的整合只有一年的時間了，新航站樓將會有一個低成本的同行，基本上，這與你們最終開會的時間是相同的。

I'll restrain my skepticism about Frankfurt's low-cost term and I'd ask Eddie to deal with that. Look, will the 3% rate of growth headwind for cost this year? No. As long as we are able to manage the recruitment and the staffing for that kind of lower 3% rate, there will be some inflation this year, but most notably on route charges, we think the staff cost run rate will be lower than it was this year. But we're doing good work on the airport and the handling charges and fuel will kick in a modest cost saving again.

我會抑制對法蘭克福低成本條款的懷疑，並會讓 Eddie 來處理這個問題。你看，今年3%的成長率會對成本帶來不利影響嗎？不。只要我們能夠以較低的 3% 費率管理招聘和人員配置，今年就會出現一些通貨膨脹，但最明顯的是航線費用，我們認為員工成本運行率將低於今年。但是我們在機場方面做得很好，而且地勤費和燃料費將再次帶來適度的成本節約。

So I think we are in a reasonably strong or stable position on cost for the next 12 months, thanks to fuel. Obviously, we're unhedged on 25% of our fuel. But if Trump is effective in getting oil production up and in the short term, prices downwards, then I think there will be some upside for us on cost. Really, what's my view on net profitability? It all depends on where fares and yields fall in the next -- through the summer of this year. And it is just too early to say.

因此我認為，由於燃料的原因，未來 12 個月我們的成本將處於相當強勁或穩定的狀態。顯然，我們有 25% 的燃料沒有進行對沖。但如果川普能夠有效提高石油產量，並在短期內壓低油價，那麼我認為我們的成本將會有一些上漲空間。真的，我對淨獲利能力的看法是什麼？這一切都取決於明年（直到今年夏天）票價和收益的下降。現在說還太早。

We will have a strong April because of Easter. I think I would be -- and again, I go back to the -- I'd be modestly cautiously optimistic on pricing, forward book is at 1% headway that were at this time last year. I think it's reasonable to expect, given that pricing fell 8% last year, I think there's a reasonable profit we might get back for three quarters. We might recover 4% or 6% [at Frankfurt]. We have no visibility, and therefore, we can't come up with what do we think it will happen to net profit.

因為復活節，我們將度過一個強勁的四月。我想我會 — — 我再次回到 — — 我對定價持謹慎樂觀的態度，預期帳面價值與去年同期相比上漲了 1%。我認為這是合理的預期，考慮到去年價格下跌了 8%，我認為我們可能會在三個季度內獲得合理的利潤。我們可能會（在法蘭克福）收回 4% 或 6%。我們沒有預見性，因此，我們無法判斷淨利潤會發生什麼變化。

We think costs will be reasonably constrained and the net profit will all depend on where pricing goes. And pricing, as you know, we were surprised this year that pricing fell by 8%. We don't know where pricing is going this year. But I think there's a -- I think I'd be hopeful, but no more than that of recovering some or all of that 8% decline in the last 12 months. Eddie, low-cost terminal in Frankfurt (inaudible).

我們認為成本將受到合理限制，淨利潤將完全取決於定價。至於定價，如您所知，今年的價格下降了 8%，這讓我們感到驚訝。我們不知道今年的定價將會如何。但我認為，我會抱持希望，但不會超過恢復過去 12 個月 8% 的部分或全部跌幅的希望。艾迪，法蘭克福廉價航空航廈（聽不清楚）。

But obviously, I mean the one problem that Germany doesn't have is unused capacity, and this will just add on to it. I mean like the difficulty in Germany is capacity. It's the price and getting airlines to fill that out. I mean if you look at -- you look at what's happened in German airports there would cost you close to EUR60 per passenger, walk through the b***** airports, more security people in Frankfurt main than there are at gates or there are passengers and some evenings when you're going through.

但顯然，我的意思是德國不存在的一個問題是未使用的產能，而這只會加劇這個問題。我的意思是德國的困難在於容量。這是價格，並讓航空公司來填寫。我的意思是，如果你看看——你看看德國機場發生的情況，每位乘客的費用將接近 60 歐元，穿過那些該死的機場，法蘭克福主機場的安檢人員比登機口的還多，或者有些晚上你經過的時候乘客數量也比登機口的還多。

But if you look at -- like look at what's played out in Brandenburg, where we had the opening of this massive terminal that's half empty. easyJet have left in huge numbers. We reduced our aircraft. I mean an interesting statistic is that in the capital savvy of the largest economy in Europe, Ryanair, the largest airline in Europe has the same number of aircraft based areas we do in [Ibiza] under Dutch border.

但如果你看看——看看勃蘭登堡的情況，我們在那裡啟用了這個一半空著的大型航站樓。大量 easyJet 乘客已離開。我們減少了飛機數量。我的意思是，一個有趣的統計數據是，在歐洲最大經濟體的首都瑞安航空（歐洲最大的航空公司）中，其飛機基地數量與我們在荷蘭邊境的[伊比沙島]相同。

There's something wrong and it's going to have to be fixed. And the aviation policy of the German government, not unlike what's happened with other parts of the economy on electric vehicles and all sorts of things they are betting the house in one policy. The national champion is not going to come back and fill out the lost capacity post-COVID because they only have one model that centers on Munich and Frankfurt. And you see Berlin in decline. Hamburg, we've left 60% has gone from there.

出了問題，必須修復。德國政府的航空政策與其他經濟領域的電動車等政策並無不同，他們都把賭注押在了一項政策上。這家全國冠軍企業不會在疫情後回來填補失去的產能，因為他們只有一個以慕尼黑和法蘭克福為中心的模式。你會看到柏林正在衰落。漢堡，我們已經離開那裡60%了。

We've closed Leipzig doors and opened Dresden. But the only ones that are sort of punching for and fighting for capacity are the small regional airports. And they're not that region, Baden-Baden is sizable. We're getting spectacular growth in [Ibiza], and Manning, west of Munich is doing fantastically well. Something's got to give in Germany. We won't be cutting the ribbon on the terminal that's going to sell, but they're going to have the lower cost.

我們關閉了萊比錫的大門並開放了德勒斯登的大門。但唯一在爭奪運能的只有小型區域機場。而且他們不是那個地區，巴登巴登的面積相當大。我們在伊比沙島取得了驚人的成長，慕尼黑西部的曼寧也取得了巨大的進步。德國必須做出一些讓步。我們不會對即將出售的終端進行剪彩，但其成本將會降低。

Yeah. I mean look, we've been reasonably hopeful, Johannes, you have new elections in the spring, a new government will clearly want to change the abject failed policies of the last government, and it's not just airport fees either, although the airport, German airports are ridiculously expensive. ATC fees have gone up 50% since COVID,, with no improvement in service at all, but completely unjustifiable. Security taxes have doubled since COVID.

是的。我的意思是，我們一直抱持合理的希望，約翰內斯，你們在春天有新的選舉，新政府顯然會想要改變上一屆政府徹底失敗的政策，而且這不僅僅是機場費用，儘管德國機場的費用高得離譜。自新冠疫情以來，空中交通管制費用上漲了 50%，但服務卻沒有任何改善，這完全沒有道理。自從疫情爆發以來，安全稅已經翻了一番。

The German government seems to think that the future that the way to pull the economy is just tax the s*** out of air passengers. As a result of which air passengers are avoiding Germany and they are million. easyJet to massively cut back their capacity, Ryanair's got back in. We've closed bases in Hamburg and Stuttgart in Cologne.

德國政府似乎認為未來拉動經濟的辦法就是向航空旅客徵收高額稅金。結果是，數以百萬計的航空旅客避開德國。易捷航空 (easyJet) 大幅削減運力，瑞安航空 (Ryanair) 重新加入。我們已經關閉了位於漢堡和科隆斯圖加特的基地。

And we've have no desire to go back there. We are growing happily in Italy, in countries all over Europe. And Germany can stagnate away under the current policies of the failed government or we would hope that the new government will follow some kind of growth-minded policies.

我們不想再回到那裡。我們在義大利、歐洲各國快樂成長。德國可能會在失敗政府的現行政策下陷入停滯，或者我們希望新政府能夠採取某種成長型政策。

And if nothing else, Trump might at least wake up some of these complacent f****** liberal governments in Europe who think where we just tax the s*** out of air travel and all will be well. Stop taxing air travel, we're critical to the European integration. We're critical to the competitiveness of the European economy. Mario Monti had the air transport is front and center of his report, reformed the abject ATC services we suffer here in Europe.

而且，即使不出意外，川普至少也能喚醒歐洲一些自滿的自由派政府，他們認為只要對航空旅行徵收高額稅款，一切就會好轉。停止對航空旅行徵稅，我們對歐洲一體化至關重要。我們對歐洲經濟的競爭力至關重要。馬裡奧·蒙蒂將航空運輸作為報告的核心內容，改革了歐洲糟糕的空中交通管制服務。

They abolish aviation taxes. and let the airlines get on to stop trying to over reregulate air travel through the back door with the Italian price decree or the Spanish b***** bag fines, get the hell out of the aviation industry, and let us get on with delivering growth and competitiveness, without having to wait for another runway in Southeast, the UK, which will never happen in my lifetime. Other than that, all is well in Germany, Johannes. Keep beating the English and football and we keep supporting you.

他們廢除了航空稅。讓航空公司停止試圖通過意大利的價格法令或西班牙的b***** bag罰款等後門來過度重新管制航空旅行，滾出航空業，讓我們繼續實現增長和競爭力，而不必等待英國東南部的另一條​​跑道，這在我有生之年永遠不會發生。除此之外，德國一切都好，約翰內斯。繼續擊敗英格蘭隊和足球隊，我們會繼續支持你。

Alex Paterson, Peel Hunt.

亞歷克斯·帕特森，皮爾·亨特。

Can I just go back to the compensation issue which was -- if I understand correctly, you were saying that it's a small number. Are we talking EUR20 million, EUR30 million, something like that. And then secondly, similarly with the legal charge, is that -- I think Juliusz mentioned that the total charge was EUR170 million. Have you therefore provided EUR85 million being half of the EUR170 million?

我可以回到賠償問題嗎？我們說的是 2000 萬歐元、3000 萬歐元還是類似的金額？其次，與法律費用類似，我認為 Juliusz 提到總費用為 1.7 億歐元。那麼，您是否提供了 1.7 億歐元中的一半，即 8500 萬歐元？

Okay. The compensation is a small number. We're not putting a number on it, but it's not a million miles away from the numbers you've quoted -- the legal trial, the EUR170 million was for all of the airlines. We have because Ryanair is by far away the largest airline in Spain, we were in for EUR107 million. So we provided about 50% at about EUR54 million in the quarter. So the compensation number with Boeing is small.

好的。賠償金額很小。我們沒有給出具體數字，但與您引用的數字相差不遠——在法律審判中，所有航空公司的損失為 1.7 億歐元。因為瑞安航空是西班牙最大的航空公司，所以我們投資了 1.07 億歐元。因此，我們本季提供了約 50%，約 5,400 萬歐元。因此波音公司的賠償金額很少。

The legal charge is quite significant, particularly in the quarter, but we are very confident that, that fine will -- that those fines will be ruled to be in breach of EU Law and will be rolled back, but it might take us a year or two to roll it back.

法律指控相當高昂，特別是在本季度，但我們非常有信心，這些罰款將被裁定為違反歐盟法律並將被撤銷，但可能需要一兩年的時間才能撤銷。

Harry Gowers, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的哈利高爾斯 (Harry Gowers)。

One just on the ownership and control restrictions. Maybe you could just share the general feedback that you've got so far from your consultations with regulators and shareholders. And then just -- can I just go back and confirm a number from earlier on in the call, I think it was when you were answering the question on the SaaS. Did you say that the ETS cost plus staff costs will be roughly EUR1 billion in March 2026. I might have heard that wrong.

一個只是關於所有權和控制權的限制。或許您可以分享一下您迄今為止與監管機構和股東磋商後所得到的一般回饋。然後——我能否回去確認通話早些時候的一個號碼，我想那是在您回答有關 SaaS 的問題時。您是否說過，到 2026 年 3 月，ETS 成本加上員工成本將達到約 10 億歐元。我可能聽錯了。

Thomas, I'll give you the second one. Juliusz, do you want to update us on the consolidated shareholders and regulators on the ownership and control?

湯瑪斯，我給你第二個。Juliusz，您想向我們介紹合併股東和監管機構的所有權和控制權嗎？

Yes. So Harry, we met with shareholders representing over two-third of issued share capital over the last few months. Discussions are focused on our current restrictions as compared to those applied by other airlines and whether there is a competitive disadvantage to us in the current restrictions and then the potential impact of a change in the current structure. And then when it comes to the impact, the focus has been on the returning UK and US demand to the ordinary line. and potential inclusion in indices and what that would do to passive investments returning or growing there.

是的。所以，哈利，我們在過去幾個月會見了佔已發行股本三分之二以上的股東。討論的重點是我們目前的限制與其他航空公司的限制相比有何不同，以及目前的限制是否為我們帶來了競爭劣勢，以及當前結構變化的潛在影響。而說到影響，焦點一直集中在英國和美國對普通航線的需求回升。以及可能被納入指數，以及這對被動投資的回報或成長有何影響。

And then on the regulator side, again, kind of positive helpful engagement went well so far. Again, a lot of focus on the potential change of the purchase restrictions, which are kind of more challenging of the two options that we are considering. And the kind of competitive distortion arising from the current restriction on our side as compared to the structure followed by some of the other airlines.

從監管方面來看，到目前為止，積極有益的參與進展順利。再一次，許多人關注的是購買限制的潛在變化，這是我們正在考慮的兩個選項中更具挑戰性的。與其他航空公司所採用的結構相比，我們目前的限制導致了競爭扭曲。

We still have a few follow-ups in the diary over the next few weeks, and we haven't yet reached the 50% threshold, 50% new ownership threshold. We are making progress on that front, have made significant progress since we announced the consultation in early September. But it is difficult to say at this stage whether we're looking at another month or three months or maybe it will be closer to the middle of the year by the time we get to the 50% mark.

我們在接下來的幾週內仍在日記中跟進一些事情，但我們尚未達到 50％ 的門檻，即 50％ 的新所有權門檻。我們在這方面正在取得進展，自9月初宣布磋商以來，已經取得了重大進展。但目前很難說我們是否還要再等一個月或三個月才能達到 50% 的目標，或者也許要到年中才能達到。

When we do, the Board will make a final decision. So no decisions have been made yet. but feedback from investors has been very helpful in helping the Board understand where investors stand on this issue.

當我們這樣做時，董事會將做出最終決定。因此尚未做出任何決定。但投資人的回饋非常有助於董事會了解投資人對此議題的立場。

Thanks, Juliusz. That Was helpful. Thomas, will you clarify the --

謝謝，Juliusz。這很有幫助。湯瑪斯，你能澄清一下--

Yes. So just to clarify, I said the ETS for this year for FY25 is about EUR850 million we're better hedged going into next year to offset the unwind of some free allowances. So we expect ETS and SAF to be just over EUR1 billion in FY26, so combined.

是的。所以只是為了澄清一下，我說今年 2025 財年的 ETS 約為 8.5 億歐元，我們最好在明年進行對沖，以抵消一些免費配額的取消。因此，我們預計 ETS 和 SAF 的總營收在 26 財年將略高於 10 億歐元。

Okay. Next question, please.

好的。請回答下一個問題。

That was our final question. So we'll hand back over to you, Michael.

這是我們的最後一個問題。所以我們將把權交給你，麥可。

Okay. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. So I don't have anything else to add to that. Look, I think our Q4 prior year comp this year is going to be tough. So I think let's keep every feet on the ground.

好的。非常感謝各位，女士們、先生們。因此，我沒有什麼好補充的了。看，我認為我們今年第四季的年比情況將會很艱難。因此我認為我們應該腳踏實地。

For the nine months, collectively, pricing was down 8%. Yes, we've had a reasonably good Q3. Q4 numbers will be challenging. And then I think we will have -- and I would point again, we'll have an easier prior year comp into Q1, so Q1 will look good. But I think the big issue, and I'm afraid we're not able to help you at this point in is time summer capacity this year will be heavily constrained.

在這 9 個月裡，價格總共下跌了 8%。是的，我們的第三季業績相當不錯。第四季的數據將充滿挑戰。然後我認為我們將有—我想再次指出，我們將在第一季有更容易的去年同期數據，因此第一季看起來會很好。但我認為最大的問題是，今年夏季的容量將受到嚴重限制，恐怕我們現在無法為您提供幫助。

We think that is probably helped certainly our growth and helps our pricing, but it's too early to say yet where the pricing number will come out.

我們認為這肯定有助於我們的成長並有助於我們的定價，但現在判斷定價數字還為時過早。

We're working on our budget. We expect to finalize those by the middle -- they go to the Board at the end of February. But we have finished FY25 a little bit better than we had originally thought at the start of last year when we saw pricing falling away from us. Pricing does appear to be recovering, but we think it will be modest and we'll continue to be cautious.

我們正在製定預算。我們預計這些計劃將在二月中旬完成——並於二月底提交給董事會。但是，我們 25 財年的業績表現比我們去年年初預期的要好一些，當時我們看到價格正在下滑。價格確實似乎正在回升，但我們認為漲幅會很小，我們將繼續保持謹慎。

In the meantime, we're working very closely with Boeing. We really need an end to the very frustrating delivery delays. We're hopeful -- well, we're confident we get the nine aircraft in time for May of this year. and then the 29 aircraft for next year. And then we're working hard with Boeing and with the asset to make sure that we get the MAX 7 or the MAX 10 certified as quickly as possible, so that we can kind of plan for our capacity and market share growth in December 2027.

同時，我們正在與波音公司密切合作。我們確實需要結束令人沮喪的交貨延遲現象。我們充滿希望——我們有信心在今年 5 月之前收到這 9 架飛機。明年將購買 29 架飛機。然後，我們正在與波音公司和資產部門努力合作，以確保盡快獲得 MAX 7 或 MAX 10 認證，以便我們能夠為 2027 年 12 月的產能和市場份額成長制定計劃。

Okay. We are not doing a road show, as you know, in Q3. Peter Larkin and his team here in the IR team are in the Austin. In Dublin if anybody has any follow-up questions, for him, Neil is doing a meeting with a few investors in London today. And I think you're going to Paris tomorrow.

好的。如您所知，我們在第三季不會進行路演。 IR 團隊的 Peter Larkin 和他的團隊在奧斯汀。在都柏林，如果有人有任何後續問題，尼爾今天正在倫敦與幾位投資者會面。我想你明天要去巴黎。

And other than that, Eddie, my rest of the team here will be focusing on our day-to-day job, which is reducing costs rolling out growth and taking market share from competitors, which is not that difficult in the current marketplace. Thank you very much, everybody. Look forward to seeing you again soon. Bye-bye.

除此之外，艾迪，我團隊的其他成員將專注於我們的日常工作，即降低成本、促進成長並從競爭對手那裡奪取市場份額，這在當前市場並不難。非常感謝大家。期待很快能再見到您。再見。

This concludes today's Ryanair's conference call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.

瑞安航空今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。