諾基亞 (NOK) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nokia's first-quarter 2025 results call. I'm David Mulholland, Head of Nokia Investor Relations. And today with me is Justin Hotard, our President and CEO; along with Marco Wiren, our CFO.

女士們、先生們，早安。歡迎參加諾基亞 2025 年第一季業績電話會議。我是諾基亞投資人關係主管大衛‧穆赫蘭 (David Mulholland)。今天和我一起的還有我們的總裁兼執行長賈斯汀·霍塔德 (Justin Hotard)；以及我們的財務長 Marco Wiren。

Before we get started, a quick disclaimer. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements regarding our future business. Transaction and financial performance, and these statements are predictions that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may, therefore, differ materially from the results we currently expect.

在我們開始之前，先簡單聲明一下。在本次電話會議中，我們將就未來業務做出前瞻性陳述。交易和財務表現，這些陳述是涉及風險和不確定性的預測。因此，實際結果可能與我們目前預期的結果有重大差異。

Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

造成這種差異的因素既有外在因素，也有內在因素。我們已在 20-F 表年度報告的風險因素部分中確定了此類風險，該報告可在我們投資者關係網站上查閱。

Within today's presentation, references to growth rates will be mostly on a constant currency and portfolio basis, and this is basically to take into account both acquisitions that we've done and looked at on a like-for-like basis, if they've been present in both periods along with any disposals, where we refer to margins, it will be based on our comparable reporting.

在今天的演示中，對成長率的引用將主要基於固定貨幣和投資組合，這基本上是為了考慮到我們已經完成的兩次收購，並在同類基礎上進行審查，如果它們在兩個時期都存在，以及任何處置，我們所指的利潤率將基於我們的可比報告。

Please note that our Q1 report and the presentation that accompanies this call are published on our website. The report includes both reported and comparable financial results and a reconciliation between the two.

請注意，我們的第一季報告和本次電話會議的簡報已在我們的網站上發布。該報告包括報告的和可比較的財務結果以及兩者之間的對帳。

In terms of the agenda for today's call, Justin will go through some of the key messages from the quarter and then Marco will go through the financial performance before we move to Q&A. With that, let me hand over to Justin.

就今天電話會議的議程而言，賈斯汀將介紹本季度的一些關鍵訊息，然後馬可將介紹財務業績，然後我們進入問答環節。說完這些，讓我把麥克風交給賈斯汀。

Thank you, David, and let me also welcome you to our conference call today. I'm honored to have been given the opportunity to lead Nokia. Nokia is a true global leader in connectivity with a strong heritage in technology.

謝謝你，大衛，我也歡迎你參加我們今天的電話會議。我很榮幸有機會領導諾基亞。諾基亞是全球真正的連結性領導者，擁有深厚的技術底蘊。

While I will share my initial observations with you today, please bear in mind it has only been three weeks since I started. I look forward to sharing more with you in the coming months and ultimately presenting our complete value creation vision for Nokia at a Capital Markets Day that we will hold in November. I also look forward to meeting with many of our shareholders and analysts in the coming months as I ramp up.

雖然我今天將與大家分享我的初步觀察結果，但請記住，我開始才剛剛三週。我期待在接下來的幾個月與大家分享更多內容，並最終在 11 月舉行的資本市場日上展示我們對諾基亞的完整價值創造願景。我還期待在未來幾個月內與我們的許多股東和分析師會面。

We've already had some great engagements with some of our customers, employees and other key stakeholders. I'm impressed by our core technology base and the strength of our portfolio, including in RAN and core as well as across IP optical and fiber networking technologies. We have a very strong base of products and services and I think that is well recognized by our customers. It is also clear from my initial customer conversations that we are a critical trusted partner for their mobile and fixed infrastructure. In addition, we have significant potential to expand our presence in hyperscale, enterprise and defense markets.

我們已經與一些客戶、員工和其他主要利害關係人進行了良好的合作。我們的核心技術基礎和產品組合實力給我留下了深刻的印象，包括 RAN 和核心以及 IP 光纖和光纖網路技術。我們擁有非常強大的產品和服務基礎，我認為這得到了客戶的認可。從我與客戶的初次交談中也可以清楚地看出，我們是他們在移動和固定基礎設施方面值得信賴的重要合作夥伴。此外，我們在超大規模、企業和國防市場中還具有巨大的潛力。

In the time I've spent with our employees, I've been impressed with our innovative spirit, energy and drive to unlock Nokia's full potential. Going forward, I will be focusing on our approach to capital allocation. I will ensure that we continue to both drive for efficiency and invest sufficiently in the right growth segments to deliver long-term value. I see opportunities across our portfolio to accelerate the transformation that is already underway.

在我與我們的員工相處的時間裡，我們的創新精神、活力和釋放諾基亞全部潛力的動力給我留下了深刻的印象。展望未來，我將專注於我們的資本配置方法。我將確保我們繼續提高效率並在正確的成長領域進行足夠的投資以實現長期價值。我看到我們的投資組合中存在著加速已經在進行的轉型的機會。

Turning to our Q1 financial performance, we continue to see encouraging signs of market recovery with solid order growth across the businesses. In the first quarter, our net sales declined 3% year over year. However, when you adjust for the over EUR400 million of catch-up net sales in Nokia Technologies net sales grew 7%. Specifically, we grew 11% in network infrastructure with all units growing and particularly had strong growth in optical networks at 15%.

回顧我們的第一季財務業績，我們繼續看到市場復甦的令人鼓舞的跡象，各項業務的訂單均穩步增長。第一季度，我們的淨銷售額年減3%。然而，當調整超過 4 億歐元的追趕淨銷售額時，諾基亞技術的淨銷售額成長了 7%。具體來說，我們的網路基礎設施成長了 11%，所有部門都在成長，尤其是光纖網路成長強勁，達到 15%。

Cloud and Network Services grew 8% with strong demand for 5G core and had significant wins at AT&T, Boost Mobile, Ooredoo Qatar and Telefonica. Mobile Networks continued to see sales stabilize growing 2% in the quarter. I'm pleased to share that today we've also announced an extension of our RAN agreement with T-Mobile US.

受 5G 核心需求強勁推動，雲端和網路服務成長 8%，並在 AT&T、Boost Mobile、Ooredoo Qatar 和 Telefonica 取得了重大勝利。行動網路銷售額持續保持穩定，本季成長 2%。我很高興地告訴大家，今天我們也宣布延長與 T-Mobile US 的 RAN 協議。

Our profitability in the quarter was impacted by the catch-up net sales in Nokia Technologies in the prior year along with the onetime contract settlement in mobile networks of EUR120 million. Operating margin in network infrastructure expanded 190 basis points and cloud and network services expanded 930 basis points. Our free cash flow performance in the quarter was also strong at over EUR700 million, resulting in a net cash position of EUR3 billion at the end of the quarter.

本季我們的獲利能力受到上年諾基亞科技公司追趕性淨銷售額以及 1.2 億歐元的行動網路一次性合約結算的影響。網路基礎設施的營業利潤率擴大了 190 個基點，雲端和網路服務的營業利潤率擴大了 930 個基點。本季我們的自由現金流表現也十分強勁，超過 7 億歐元，導致本季末的淨現金狀況達到 30 億歐元。

Let me now touch on the current environment. While we are not immune to the evolving global trade landscape, my initial customer feedback indicates that our markets should prove to be relatively resilient. Considering this, we continue to expect strong growth in network infrastructure, growth in cloud and network services and largely stable net sales in mobile networks. We are actively monitoring the situation and staying closely engaged with our customers. With the visibility we have today, we expect tariffs to have a EUR20 million to EUR30 million impact to our operating profit in Q2.

現在讓我談談當前的環境。雖然我們無法免受不斷變化的全球貿易格局的影響，但我的初步客戶回饋表明，我們的市場應該具有相對的彈性。考慮到這一點，我們繼續預計網路基礎設施將強勁成長，雲端和網路服務將成長，行動網路淨銷售額將基本穩定。我們正在積極監測情況並與客戶保持密切聯繫。根據我們今天的了解，我們預計關稅將對我們第二季的營業利潤產生 2,000 萬至 3,000 萬歐元的影響。

Our supply chain teams are proactively working to further mitigate the exposure, leveraging our global manufacturing network. Therefore, our guidance remains unchanged. It should be noted, however, that considering the unexpected charge that impacted mobile networks in the quarter, achieving the top end of the operating profit range will now be more challenging. For clarity, considering the volatility of the situation, we have not taken an assumption related to tariffs in our second half of 2025 and the integration of Infinera does not meaningfully impact the range.

我們的供應鏈團隊正在積極努力，利用我們的全球製造網路進一步降低風險。因此，我們的指導保持不變。然而值得注意的是，考慮到本季對行動網路產生影響的意外收費，實現營業利潤的最高值現在將變得更具挑戰性。為了清楚起見，考慮到情況的波動性，我們沒有對 2025 年下半年的關稅做出假設，而 Infinera 的整合不會對範圍產生重大影響。

The final topic I want to touch on this morning is the Infinera acquisition. Based on my initial assessment, I'm convinced of its value creation potential and confident we will achieve the expected synergies. As a quick reminder, this acquisition brings a number of significant benefits. It gives us the scale to accelerate our product road maps and to drive more innovation. It also increases our access to hyperscale customers, which are a key growth driver in both cloud and AI data center investments. Finally, it's a complementary acquisition in terms of the customer geographic and technology profile.

今天早上我想談的最後一個話題是 Infinera 收購案。根據我的初步評估，我確信它的價值創造潛力，並有信心我們將實現預期的協同效應。簡單提醒一下，此次收購帶來了許多重大好處。它為我們提供了加速產品路線圖和推動更多創新的規模。它還增加了我們接觸超大規模客戶的管道，這是雲端和人工智慧資料中心投資的關鍵成長動力。最後，從客戶地域和技術概況來看，這是一次互補的收購。

The Q1 performance illustrated a number of these points clearly with strong momentum in the business. Optical Networks grew 15% in the quarter, as I mentioned, and with a book-to-bill above one. As a part of the integration, we've already made many portfolio decisions and communicated them to customers. Their feedback continues to be positive, and we are on track to achieve the synergy targets. While this progress is encouraging, there is still a lot of work ahead of us. With that, let me hand over to Marco to go through the financials in more detail.

第一季的業績清楚地表明了這些要點，業務發展勢頭強勁。正如我所提到的，光網絡本季成長了 15%，訂單出貨比超過 1。作為整合的一部分，我們已經做出了許多投資組合決策並將其傳達給客戶。他們的回饋持續積極，我們正在實現協同目標。雖然這項進展令人鼓舞，但我們還有很多工作要做。說完這些，讓我把時間交給馬可更詳細地介紹一下財務狀況。

Thanks, Justin, and hello from my side as well. I will start by discussing our overall group performance. Q1 net sales declined 3% on a constant currency and portfolio basis. As Justin explained, we saw strong growth in both network infrastructure and cloud and network services, while mobile networks also grew somewhat. These were offset by a challenging comparison in Nokia Technologies as the year ago quarter benefited from over EUR400 million of catch-up net sales related to licensing deals signed in the quarter.

謝謝，賈斯汀，我也向你問好。我將首先討論我們團隊的整體表現。以固定匯率和投資組合計算，第一季淨銷售額下降了 3%。正如賈斯汀所解釋的，我們看到網路基礎設施以及雲端和網路服務都實現了強勁增長，同時行動網路也得到了一定增長。但這些都被諾基亞科技公司具有挑戰性的對比所抵消，因為去年同期受益於與該季度簽署的授權協議相關的超過 4 億歐元的追趕淨銷售額。

Our gross margin decreased by 820 basis points to 42.3%, and this was mainly as a result of the lower Nokia Technologies net sales. And it was also impacted by the one-off settlement charge in mobile networks. This, in addition to higher OpEx and a currency-related loss in Nokia Venture funds led to a 3.6% operating margin in Q1. Pleasingly, we generated over EUR700 million of free cash flow in the quarter and ended the quarter with a EUR3 billion of net cash, which I will go into more detail on shortly.

我們的毛利率下降了 820 個基點，至 42.3%，這主要是由於諾基亞技術淨銷售額下降所致。此外，也受到行動網路一次性結算費的影響。再加上營運支出增加和諾基亞創投基金的貨幣相關損失，導致第一季的營業利潤率為 3.6%。令人高興的是，我們在本季度產生了超過 7 億歐元的自由現金流，並以 30 億歐元的淨現金結束了本季度，我將很快對此進行更詳細的介紹。

Now turning to financial performance for Business Group. First, network infrastructure. They delivered a strong 11% growth. This reflected growth across each of the business units as optical networks had a particularly strong quarter, growing 15% and Fixed Networks and IP networks grew 9% and 7%, respectively. Gross margin was relatively stable while operating margin expanded 190 basis points year on year to 7.8%.

現在談談商業集團的財務表現。第一，網路基礎設施。他們實現了 11% 的強勁成長。這反映了每個業務部門的成長，其中光纖網路本季表現尤為強勁，成長了 15%，固定網路和 IP 網路分別成長了 9% 和 7%。毛利率相對穩定，營業利益率較去年同期擴大190個基點至7.8%。

And this is mainly the result of the higher net sales offsetting increased investments into growth opportunities. The stabilization in mobile networks continued in Q1 with the net sales growing 2%. The net sales in North America grew at a double-digit pace as there were low levels of investment activity in the year ago quarter. India also returned to growth within the APAC region, while EMEA sales declined. Gross margin declined 10 percentage points to 30.9%, reflecting the one-off contract settlement, which had a net impact of EUR120 million.

這主要是因為淨銷售額的增加抵消了對成長機會的增加的投資。第一季行動網路持續保持穩定，淨銷售額成長 2%。由於去年同期投資活動水準較低，北美地區的淨銷售額以兩位數的速度成長。亞太地區內，印度也恢復了成長，而歐洲、中東和非洲地區的銷售額則出現下降。毛利率下降 10 個百分點至 30.9%，反映一次性合約結算，淨影響為 1.2 億歐元。

If you exclude this, Mobile Networks gross margin would have been more aligned with the normalized gross margin range of 38% to 39%, we had seen during '24. Operating margin was negative 8.8%, mainly the result of the lower gross margin.

如果排除這一點，行動網路的毛利率將與我們在 24 年期間看到的 38% 至 39% 的標準化毛利率範圍更加一致。營業利益率為-8.8%，主要由於毛利率較低。

Turning to Cloud and Network Services, the net sales grew by 8% in the quarter, reflecting continued momentum in core networks and mainly in 5G core. From a regional perspective, saw broad-based growth with strength in India. The higher level of net sales drove strong expansion in both gross and operating margin in the business a strong start to the year. And turning now to Nokia Technologies.

談到雲端和網路服務，本季淨銷售額成長了 8%，反映出核心網路（主要是 5G 核心）的持續成長動能。從區域角度來看，印度實現了廣泛且強勁的成長。更高的淨銷售額推動了業務毛利率和營業利潤率的強勁增長，為今年帶來了良好的開端。現在來談談諾基亞科技公司。

Net sales declined 52%, but this was entirely due to a challenging comparison in the year ago quarter, which benefited from over EUR400 million of catch-up net sales. This was somewhat offset by the deals signed over the past 12 months, and catch-up net sales booked in the quarter related to agreements signed in quarter one. Nokia Technologies continue to execute and sign a deal with Amazon in addition to other smaller deals. The annual net sales run rate has now increased to approximately EUR1.4 billion despite a headwind from recent currency movements.

淨銷售額下降了 52%，但這完全是由於與去年同期相比情況艱難，去年同期受益於超過 4 億歐元的追趕淨銷售額。這在一定程度上被過去 12 個月簽署的交易以及本季度與第一季簽署的協議相關的追趕淨銷售額所抵消。諾基亞技術公司繼續與亞馬遜執行並簽署協議以及其他較小的交易。儘管近期匯率波動帶來不利影響，但年度淨銷售額運行率目前已增至約 14 億歐元。

Let's now look at the net sales per region and a few things to point out here. First, you can see that North America was once again one of the biggest contributors to the net sales growth. And we saw strong growth across each of the Networks business groups with particular strength in network infrastructure and mobile networks.

現在讓我們看看每個地區的淨銷售額以及需要指出的幾點。首先，您可以看到北美再次成為淨銷售額成長的最大貢獻者之一。我們看到每個網路業務集團都實現了強勁成長，尤其是在網路基礎設施和行動網路方面。

India returned to growth mainly driven by network infrastructure and especially by fixed networks where we benefited from a strong fixed wireless access demand. India also grew in mobile networks and cloud and network services. Europe saw a sizable decline, but this was mostly driven by Nokia Technologies as all its net sales are booked in this region. Excluding this, Net sales in Europe would have declined 7%.

印度恢復成長主要得益於網路基礎設施，尤其是固定網絡，我們受益於強勁的固定無線存取需求。印度的行動網路、雲端運算和網路服務也實現了成長。歐洲出現了大幅下滑，但這主要是由於諾基亞技術公司的所有淨銷售額都來自該地區。除此之外，歐洲的淨銷售額將下降7%。

A couple of words about our cash performance. In Q1, we generated over $700 million in free cash flow, and as we saw sizable inflows related to net working capital. And this came mainly from the seasonal decline in receivables we typically see in Q1. We ended the quarter with EUR3 billion in net cash. As you can see on the slide, the decline in net cash mainly reflected the acquisition of Infinera, with cash outflow in the quarter.

關於我們的現金表現的幾句話。在第一季度，我們產生了超過 7 億美元的自由現金流，我們看到與淨營運資本相關的大量流入。這主要源自於我們通常在第一季看到的應收帳款季節性下降。本季末我們的淨現金為 30 億歐元。如幻燈片上所見，淨現金的下降主要反映了對 Infinera 的收購，導致本季出現現金流出。

And this consisted of cash proceeds related to Infinera equity, the convertibles, as well as the share buybacks we did to offset the dilution from the Nokia shares issued as part of the deal. As a reminder, when modeling quarter two cash, this is when you see the outflows related to our '24 performance-related employee variable pay.

這包括與 Infinera 股權、可轉換債券相關的現金收益，以及我們為抵銷交易中發行的諾基亞股票的稀釋而進行的股票回購。提醒一下，在對第二季的現金進行建模時，您會看到與我們的 24 名績效相關員工浮動薪酬相關的資金流出。

Finally, moving to our 2025 outlook, which remains unchanged. We continue to expect our '25 comparable operating profit to be in the range of EUR1.9 billion to EUR2.4 billion. However, given the unexpected charge that impacted mobile networks, it will be more challenging to achieve the top end of this range. We continue to expect free cash flow conversion to be 50% to 80% of comparable operating profit. And with that, let me hand it over to David for Q&A.

最後，我們對 2025 年的展望保持不變。我們繼續預期 25 年可比營業利潤將在 19 億歐元至 24 億歐元之間。然而，考慮到對行動網路造成影響的意外收費，實現此範圍的最高值將更具挑戰性。我們繼續預期自由現金流轉換將達到可比營業利潤的 50% 至 80%。現在，讓我將時間交給 David 進行問答。

Thank you, Justin and Marco, for your comments. (Operator Instructions). Ashu, could you please give the instructions?

感謝賈斯汀和馬可的評論。（操作員指令）。Ashu，您能給說明嗎？

(Operator Instructions) I'll hand back the call to Mr. David Mulholland.

（接線生指示）我會將電話交還給大衛·穆赫蘭先生。

Alexander Duval, Goldman Sachs.

亞歷山大杜瓦爾，高盛。

Yes. Many thanks for the question. You mentioned the team of USA a contract extension. I wondered if you could give some color on duration and how important this is and what it implies the Nokia product positioning. And then perhaps as a quick follow-up, you highlighted a growing backlog in the Network Infrastructure segment. Clearly, again, on certain macro and be helpful to get a sense of what the key factors have been in this regard and how you see this going forward?

是的。非常感謝您的提問。您提到了與美國隊續約。我想知道您是否可以解釋一下持續時間以及它的重要性以及它對諾基亞產品定位意味著什麼。然後，也許作為快速的後續行動，您強調了網路基礎設施領域的積壓問題日益嚴重。顯然，再次從某些宏觀角度來看，這有助於了解這方面的關鍵因素是什麼，以及您如何看待未來的發展？

Yes, absolutely, Alex, said a couple of things. I'll start with T-Mobile. First of all, we have a broad and deep partnership across the group company with T-Mobile in the US And while we aren't sharing a lot of details on the contract that we can share is it's a significant multiyear extension in our RAN contract. We think that this is a great opportunity for us to partnership to shape the next chapter of mobile connectivity in the US with T-Mobile, who's clearly an innovative leader in this space. And we're optimistic that this will continue to drive growth for us with T-Mobile.

是的，絕對如此，亞歷克斯，說了幾件事。我先從 T-Mobile 開始。首先，我們集團公司與美國 T-Mobile 建立了廣泛而深入的合作夥伴關係。雖然我們沒有分享很多關於合約的細節，但我們可以分享的是，這是我們 RAN 合約中重要的多年期延期。我們認為，這對我們來說是一個絕佳的機會，我們可以與 T-Mobile 合作，共同開創美國行動連線的新篇章，T-Mobile 顯然是該領域的創新領導者。我們樂觀地認為，這將繼續推動我們與 T-Mobile 的成長。

Regarding network infrastructure, your second question, I think this is obviously very consistent with the rationale that we've shared on the Infinera acquisition and the comments that I made. This is about giving us incremental access in the US which is a high-growth geography, and of course, with hyperscale customers who are driving much of the AI and data center build. And the way I think about the market in AI, particularly with optical is, if you look at the build-out of data center, what's happening with AI is it's driving, as we all know, significant new data center build, but it's also driving new connectivity demands between data centers. both whether it's for training or inference or some of the convergence we're seeing with AI reasoning models.

關於網路基礎設施，您的第二個問題，我認為這顯然與我們在收購 Infinera 時分享的理由以及我所發表的評論非常一致。這是為了讓我們在高成長地區美國獲得增量存取權限，當然，還有推動人工智慧和資料中心建設的超大規模客戶。我對人工智慧市場，特別是光學市場的看法是，如果你看一下資料中心的建設，你會發現人工智慧正在推動大量新資料中心的建設，但它也在推動資料中心之間新的連結需求。無論是用於訓練還是推理，還是我們在人工智慧推理模型中看到的某些融合。

So this is a favorable trend for us. It's also notable that we're starting to see optical come into the data center, and you're seeing that and if you listen -- as you listen and look to some of the industry spend.

所以這對我們來說是一個有利的趨勢。值得注意的是，我們開始看到光纖進入資料中心，如果你聽的話，你會看到這一點——當你聽的時候，就會看到一些產業的支出。

The other key thing I'll highlight is when you think about networking as a whole, and now I'm talking about our optical and IP Networks business, you think about networking and AI, it's actually the second largest bucket of technology spend behind GPUs. And this probably doesn't get emphasized enough. But from our perspective, this is why we felt that Infinera was so strategic. And the net of all of that is, if you look at our growth in the quarter, what was as encouraging was the point that I touched on that our book-to-bill was above one, both for NI as a whole and for optical networks.

我要強調的另一個關鍵點是，當你考慮整個網路時，現在我正在談論我們的光學和 IP 網路業務，你會想到網路和人工智慧，它實際上是僅次於 GPU 的第二大技術支出領域。這一點可能還沒有得到足夠的強調。但從我們的角度來看，這就是我們認為 Infinera 如此具有戰略意義的原因。綜上所述，如果你看一下我們本季的成長情況，同樣令人鼓舞的是我提到的一點，即我們的訂單出貨比高於 1，無論是對於整個 NI 還是對於光纖網路而言。

Daniel Djurberg, Handelsbanken.

丹尼爾‧朱爾伯格，德國商業銀行。

Welcome aboard, Justin. A question first detail on Infinera. It was reported from February 28 to March 31, and did a loss of EUR31 million. That surprised me a bit, at least given that I thought March was holding on to roughly 60% of revenues in the quarter. and should be supported to margins. So my question is, did you do any kitchen sinking in this EUR31 million loss or should we have this level in our estimates going forward higher or even lower, I should say.

歡迎加入，賈斯汀。首先要問的是有關 Infinera 的詳細資訊。據報道，自2月28日至3月31日，該公司虧損3,100萬歐元。這讓我有點驚訝，至少考慮到我認為 3 月的營收佔該季度總收入的 60% 左右。並應支持邊緣。所以我的問題是，您是否對這 3100 萬歐元的損失做了任何估算，或者我們應該將這一水平在未來的估計中調高還是調低？

Yes. Thank you, Daniel. This is Marco. I will take this one. And as we have now trying to give you as good picture of the run rate basis, and that's why we have basically given this Infinera figures in our report also in a pro forma basis so you can compare how would that look like if we would have half that already from first of January '24, in all comparisons as well.

是的。謝謝你，丹尼爾。這是馬可。我要這個。正如我們現在試圖向您提供盡可能清晰的運行率基礎圖景，這就是為什麼我們在報告中也以備考形式給出了 Infinera 的數據，以便您可以比較一下，如果從 2024 年 1 月 1 日起我們已經有了這個數字的一半，那麼在所有比較中情況會如何。

So that loss that you're referring to is quarter one. We closed the deal in February 28. So we actually booked only March month in our books. And in March, actually, they had a positive results. And I would say that if you look how Infinera was performing in 2024, including the stock-based compensation in their operating profit level.

所以，您所指的損失是第一季的損失。我們於 2 月 28 日完成了交易。因此我們實際上只預訂了三月。事實上，三月他們就取得了正面的成果。我想說的是，如果你看看 Infinera 在 2024 年的表現，包括其營業利潤水準中的股票薪酬。

then actually see that they were a loss-making last year. And this was something that we explained as well when we acquired that there's a scale issue with Infinera. And together with Nokia and our optical, we get totally different scale, and that's why we are quite confident about the synergies of EUR200 million that we have explained as well that we will target to receive here in three years' time. And we believe that we will definitely see acceleration in 2025 as well in Infinera's performance and our optical. But as we mentioned also that Infinera itself, it's not the needle mover for our operating profit in 2025.

然後實際上看到他們去年處於虧損狀態。當我們得知 Infinera 有規模問題時，我們也解釋過這一點。與諾基亞和我們的光學部門合作，我們獲得了完全不同的規模，這就是為什麼我們對 2 億歐元的協同效應非常有信心，我們也解釋過我們的目標是在三年內實現這一目標。我們相信，到 2025 年，Infinera 的性能和光學性能肯定會加速發展。但正如我們所提到的，Infinera 本身並不是我們 2025 年營業利潤的推動因素。

Thank you, Daniel. Did you have a quick follow-up?

謝謝你，丹尼爾。你有快速跟進嗎？

The mobile networks on the -- can you hear me?

行動網路－你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes, go ahead.

是的，請繼續。

Perfect. Yes. A short follow-up on mobile networks. Can you give some light on the quite dramatic onetime contract settlement of the EUR120 million in the quarter should we correlate this with the news of T-Mobile US extension? Or -- and also, can this happen again, how -- where it should we be as shareholders here?

完美的。是的。對行動網路進行簡短的跟進。您能否解釋一下本季相當戲劇性的 1.2 億歐元一次性合約結算，我們是否應該將其與 T-Mobile 美國延期的消息聯繫起來？或者——而且，這種情況會再次發生嗎？身為股東，我們應該處於什麼位置？

Yes. Thank you, Daniel, and it's nice to meet you as well. Let me unpack this a little bit. So first of all, we're not disclosing the customer related to this. This was a customer-specific project that was from 2019.

是的。謝謝你，丹尼爾，我也很高興認識你。讓我稍微解釋一下這一點。因此首先，我們不會透露與此相關的客戶資訊。這是一個 2019 年的客戶特定項目。

And I think it's probably -- you're aware, we had a significant amount of work and some amount of investment we've made to stabilize and bring back the competitiveness of our portfolio really over the last 4 to five years. So this actually goes back and predates that.

我認為這可能是——你知道，在過去的四到五年裡，我們做了大量的工作和一些投資來穩定和恢復我們投資組合的競爭力。所以這其實可以追溯到那件事，甚至早於那件事。

The surprise here was that as this has been going on and we've been working on remediating this issue, the discussions were ongoing, but we did not have full visibility to the total cost. And this was a gap in terms of our assessment of the cost and as we spent time with the customer, the cost became clear to remediate the issue. And therefore, we made the decision to take a charge.

令人驚訝的是，隨著這種情況的發生，我們一直在努力解決這個問題，討論仍在進行，但我們並沒有完全了解總成本。就我們的成本評估而言，這是一個差距，隨著我們與客戶溝通的時間增加，解決問題的成本變得清晰起來。因此，我們決定採取收費措施。

In fact, this was something, as I looked at it, I felt it was important to do a couple of things. One was take a charge that fully addresses the situation. As importantly, if not more importantly, number two, was make sure we're doing what the customer needs so that with this specific project, we're addressing their needs fully to their satisfaction, given the issue. And then number three, obviously, put this into our comparable operating profit because it's not a -- while it's a onetime issue it's not something that's nonoperating. And so that was important for me in terms of the principles.

事實上，當我看著它時，我覺得做幾件事很重要。一是採取全面措施解決此問題。同樣重要（如果不是更重要的話），第二點是確保我們正在做客戶需要的事情，以便透過這個特定的項目，我們能夠充分滿足他們的需求，讓他們滿意。第三，顯然，將其放入我們的可比營業利潤中，因為它不是一個——雖然它是一個一次性問題，但它並不是非營業性問題。所以從原則上來說這對我來說很重要。

In addition, I'll make a couple of other comments. Again, this was a customer-specific project. We don't see risk with other customers. Obviously, as I've come in and I made this decision, one of the key questions I have for the AMN team is making sure we have learnings from this and we improve visibility. But at this time, we don't foresee any other issues like this.

此外，我還要提出幾點其他評論。再次強調，這是一個針對客戶的專案。我們沒有發現其他客戶有風險。顯然，當我加入並做出這個決定時，我對 AMN 團隊的一個關鍵問題是確保我們從中學習並提高知名度。但目前，我們預計不會有其他類似問題。

And of course, this goes back to a project that, again, was during a time where we know we had some portfolio issues that we subsequently addressed. So I'm confident that this is a onetime issue specific to this project. However, obviously, there's things that I will be looking at for how we continue to improve our operational visibility as I come in and continue to spend time with the team.

當然，這又回到了那個項目，當時我們知道我們有一些投資組合問題，後來我們解決了這些問題。所以我確信這是該專案特有的一次性問題。然而，顯然，當我加入並繼續與團隊共度時光時，我會專注於如何繼續提高我們的營運可見度。

Richard Kramer, Arete.

理查德·克萊默，Arete。

Justin, we heard for many years from Basel and then Pekka and others about long-promised hyperscaler deals. What do you, from your perspective, think is required to win these large AI sort of data center deals? Is it money in terms of incremental R&D and product investment, is it time to test new products like your switching products? What's the unlock for those deals?

賈斯汀，多年來我們從巴塞爾、佩卡和其他人那裡聽說了長期承諾的超大規模交易。從您的角度來看，您認為贏得這些大型人工智慧資料中心交易需要什麼？就增量研發和產品投資而言，這是錢嗎？是否像您的轉換產品一樣，是時候測試新產品了？這些交易的解鎖條件是什麼？

Thank you, Richard. First of all, I think there's a couple of things. One is our portfolio, particularly in IP networks and to a large extent, optical networks has really been oriented towards the telecommunication service providers. I think there's a couple of things that have happened. If you -- and certainly, if you look at it versus, let's say, legacy enterprise IP networks.

謝謝你，理查。首先，我認為有幾件事。一是我們的產品組合，特別是IP網絡，而且在很大程度上，光網絡實際上是面向電信服務提供商的。我認為發生了幾件事。如果您 — — 當然，如果您將它與傳統的企業 IP 網路進行比較。

One is the scale and the bandwidth that customers are demanding in hyperscale, largely driven not only by AI, but also by cloud, has started to come into a more consistent technology stack with our traditional telecommunications solutions.

一是客戶對超大規模的需求，其規模和頻寬，很大程度上不僅受到人工智慧的驅動，也受到雲端運算的驅動，已經開始與我們傳統的電信解決方案形成更一致的技術堆疊。

The second thing there is the reliability and the performance, which is just much higher. And so I think the cloud and AI build with our hyperscale customers. They're now expecting and demanding the same kinds of capabilities. I think this has opened up opportunities that make us more relevant. I think further, candidly, is we're now investing much more aggressively in this opportunity. And that's witnessed by the Infinera acquisition Optical.

第二點是可靠性和性能，它們要高得多。因此我認為雲端和人工智慧是與我們的超大規模客戶共同建構的。他們現在期待並要求同樣的能力。我認為這為我們提供了更有意義的機會。坦白說，我認為我們現在正在更加積極地投資這個機會。Infinera 收購 Optical 就證明了這一點。

I do think you -- in your question, you touched on something that's insightful and important, which is the cycle with these customers is different. It's a different cycle. It requires some collaboration and co-development upfront, and it takes time to see the revenue come in and grow. And so while it is a more transactional business on specific orders, getting designed in, getting support takes time. And I think that's obviously going back to Infinera.

我確實認為 - 在您的問題中，您觸及了一些有見地且重要的事情，那就是這些客戶的周期是不同的。這是一個不同的循環。它需要前期的一些合作和共同開發，並且需要時間才能看到收入的增加和成長。因此，雖然這是一項針對特定訂單的交易性業務，但獲得設計和支援需要時間。我認為這顯然要歸咎於 Infinera。

That's one of the things that was attractive about Infinera was their work and their development of some of these customers and the investments they made on the optical side. I do think there's a lot of learnings and leverage there as we look at the IP networks.

Infinera 的吸引力之一在於他們的工作、他們對某些客戶的發展以及他們在光學方面所做的投資。我確實認為，當我們研究 IP 網路時，我們可以從中獲得很多學習和利用。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Richard?

理查德，你有什麼後續行動嗎？

Marco, with the Amazon licensing deal as a positive example, will Nokia be increasing with the long-standing sort of EUR100 million of non-smartphone IP sales guidance in technologies?

馬可，以亞馬遜授權協議作為一個積極的例子，諾基亞是否會按照長期以來的 1 億歐元非智慧型手機 IP 技術銷售指導方針來增加銷售額？

Yes. Thank you. I think in December '23, we mentioned that we had that EUR150 million level of non-smartphone licensing deals. And we haven't updated that figures in them, but most likely at the Capital Markets Day later this year, we'll give you more flavor on that as well. We're quite happy to see how this other segments have been increasing and developing. And this latest deal is one of those proof points as well. And we are quite happy.

是的。謝謝。我記得在 23 年 12 月，我們提到我們達成了價值 1.5 億歐元的非智慧型手機授權協議。我們還沒有更新這些數據，但很可能在今年稍後的資本市場日上，我們也會為您提供更多相關資訊。我們很高興看到其他領域的成長和發展。而這項最新交易也是其中一個證明點。我們非常高興。

Ulrich Rathe, Bernstein.

烏爾里希·拉特，伯恩斯坦。

I wanted to ask on the sort of color on the EUR20 million to EUR30 million tariff impact whether the underlying assumptions for the puts and takes. Can you flex the or reassign the capacity you have in the Infinera facilities. What is the demand situation for the relatively limited contract manufacturing base that is actually located within the US I mean I suppose everyone was doing similar things is currently sort of trying to talk to those people. Could you just unravel that a little bit in terms of where the limits are and what you're doing, what you can do and really what do you have assumed there was EUR20 million to EUR30 million?

我想問一下，對於 2000 萬歐元至 3000 萬歐元關稅的影響，是否有潛在的假設。您能否靈活調整或重新分配 Infinera 設施中的容量？實際上，位於美國境內的相對有限的合約製造基地的需求如何？我的意思是，我想每個人都在做類似的事情，目前正在試圖與這些人交談。您能否稍微解釋一下，限制在哪裡，您正在做什麼，您能做什麼，以及您實際上假設的金額是 2000 萬歐元到 3000 萬歐元？

Yes, absolutely. I think let me just maybe touch on a couple of things to make sure we're breaking out our assumptions. So our focus in the EUR20 million to EUR30 million is really around the cost impact, not assumed anything in pricing in this assessment. So it's just on our own costs. So that's the first point.

是的，絕對是。我想讓我談談幾件事，以確保我們突破我們的假設。因此，我們對 2000 萬歐元至 3000 萬歐元的關注重點實際上是成本影響，而不是在評估中對定價做出任何假設。所以這只是我們自己的成本。這是第一點。

The second point is, this is based on what we what we've seen today or what our current perspective is on the situation. That's why we're so focused on Q2 because obviously, this is a very dynamic situation. My message to the team and Marco's as well as let's make sure we focus on what we can control. And so we're really looking at the impact based on a short-term impact given that the supply chain manufacturing network we have Obviously, we're looking at things we can do to mitigate it, both in the short term and strategically.

第二點是，這是基於我們今天所看到的情況或我們對當前情況的看法。這就是我們如此關注第二季的原因，因為顯然這是一個非常動態的情況。我向團隊和馬可傳達的訊息是，讓我們確保專注於我們能夠控制的事情。因此，考慮到我們擁有的供應鏈製造網絡，我們實際上是根據短期影響來考慮影響。顯然，我們正在研究可以採取哪些措施來減輕這種影響，無論是在短期內還是在策略上。

One thing I will just also note is we actually have five manufacturing facilities in the US today, two that are coming with Infinera with the acquisition and two others -- or three others preexisting. So the key thing for us is making sure we're mitigating the impact short term so we can provide supply continuity to our customers.

我還要指出的一點是，我們目前在美國實際上有五家製造工廠，其中兩家是 Infinera 收購後新增的，另外兩家（或三家）是現有工廠。因此，對我們來說，關鍵是確保在短期內減輕影響，以便能夠為客戶提供連續的供應。

And obviously, one of the reasons we've not provided visibility in the second half is given the dynamic situation, we're unclear on exactly what the situation will be going into the second half. But there's a set of mitigations that we're evaluating and pursuing that's beyond just the second quarter and we're evaluating longer-term strategic options as well.

顯然，我們未能提供下半年前景預測的原因之一是，鑑於情況的動態，我們不清楚下半年的具體情況。但我們正在評估和推行的一系列緩解措施不僅限於第二季度，我們也在評估長期策略選擇。

I will tell you, I was planning on that anyway as we think about some of the options for the business that come in and assess the business. That's something I would look at naturally.

我會告訴你，無論如何我都在計劃這樣做，因為我們正在考慮一些業務選項並評估業務。這是我自然會關注的事情。

Did you have a follow-up Ulrich?

你有後續消息嗎，烏爾里希？

Yes, that's very helpful. And my follow-up would be on the divisional guidance, not guidance, how would you call it division locations that you gave in the fourth quarter? I know you haven't repeated them. Does it mean you have changed your views on the divisions at this point already or is this still in place? Or can you give us additional color on these divisional items that you talked about in the fourth quarter?

是的，這非常有幫助。我的後續問題是關於部門指導，而不是指導，您如何稱呼您在第四季度給出的部門位置？我知道你沒有重複它們。這是否意味著您已經改變了對分歧的看法，還是這種看法仍然存在？或者您能否向我們詳細介紹一下您在第四季度談到的這些部門項目？

Yes. Thank you. And we continue to reiterate what we said in the fourth quarter as well that we believe that in network infrastructure, we see strong growth in 2025. And then, of course, we are investing also additional EUR100 million for the IP side to capture those opportunities in hyperscaler and data center segments. When it comes to mobile networks, we see a stable development even if we had this headwind in AT&T, as you remember, and then on Cloud and Network Services, we see a good growth momentum, specifically on the core side. And what customer technologies, we are giving approximately EUR1.1 billion operating profit assumption.

是的。謝謝。我們繼續重申我們在第四季度所說的內容，即我們相信網路基礎設施將在 2025 年實現強勁增長。當然，我們還將在 IP 方面額外投資 1 億歐元，以抓住超大規模和資料中心領域的機會。就行動網路而言，儘管 AT&T 遇到了一些阻力，但我們仍然看到了穩定的發展，這一點您還記得；而在雲端和網路服務方面，我們看到了良好的成長勢頭，特別是在核心方面。對於客戶技術，我們給出了約 11 億歐元的營業利潤假設。

Simon Leopold, Raymond James.

西蒙李奧波德、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Thank you very much, David, and Justin, welcome to Nokia. Justin, I wanted to see what you thought would be maybe a any contrast between your views and your predecessors views? And I guess, within this context, what surprised you most since joining Nokia? Then I've got a quick follow-up.

非常感謝，大衛和賈斯汀，歡迎來到諾基亞。賈斯汀，我想看看你認為你的觀點和前任的觀點有什麼對比嗎？我想，在這種背景下，加入諾基亞以來最讓您驚訝的是什麼？然後我會快速跟進。

Thanks, Simon. Good to speak with you again. I think a couple of things, I touched on some of these observations in my commentary, but I was pleasantly surprised by the technology base. And we've talked a lot about the product technology, the product portfolio that we have. I also was able to spend a day at Nokia Bell Labs during the Centennial celebration and tour some of the labs.

謝謝，西蒙。很高興再次與您交談。我認為有幾件事，我在我的評論中提到了其中的一些觀察結果，但我對技術基礎感到驚訝。我們已經討論了很多關於產品技術和我們的產品組合。在百年慶典期間，我還有機會在諾基亞貝爾實驗室待了一天，參觀了一些實驗室。

And it was actually very impressed with some of the longer-term technology that we have under research there as well and the potential for that. And just seeing this across obviously, a few different companies and knowing the broader landscape like I do, I just I was pleasantly surprised with the progress that we've made around commercialization. I think that goes back to some of the principles of Nokia Bell Labs and their heritage.

事實上，我們正​​在研究的一些長期技術及其潛力也給我們留下了深刻的印象。顯然，當我從幾家不同的公司了解到這一情況並了解更廣闊的前景後，我對我們在商業化方面取得的進展感到非常驚訝。我認為這可以追溯到諾基亞貝爾實驗室的一些原則及其傳統。

The other thing is, I've been very impressed with employee base, and I touched on this in my comments, but maybe just to underscore it, I think the passion that the employees have the team's mindset around really taking advantage of some of these opportunities and the openness and learning mindset they have around continuing to evolve the business.

另一件事是，我對員工基礎印象深刻，我在我的評論中提到了這一點，但也許只是為了強調這一點，我認為員工的熱情讓團隊的心態真正利用了其中的一些機會，以及他們在不斷發展業務方面的開放和學習心態。

So I think for me, that's probably key things I'd say in terms of highlights. As I think about -- and again, I touched a little bit on some comments, maybe just to underscore it a little bit, Simon, as we think about opportunities for me, there's always been two focuses. And if you go -- certainly go back to some of the companies I've worked for before, one of the things around driving efficiencies, driving efficiencies in areas that are not core or not core to growth in the areas that are core of growth, they're going to R&D investment and go-to-market investment, whether it's organic, which is obviously always the preference or inorganic where we have opportunities to make smart acquisitions that we can synergize both in terms of cost structure and revenue. But I think the other thing I look at quite a bit is where are the opportunities for us to drive meaningful scale value in the company.

所以我認為，對我來說，這可能是我在亮點方面要說的關鍵內容。當我思考——再次，我稍微觸及了一些評論，也許只是為了稍微強調一下，西蒙，當我們思考我的機會時，總是有兩個重點。如果你去 - 當然可以回顧我以前工作過的一些公司，其中一件事就是提高效率，提高非核心領域或非核心增長領域的效率，而核心增長領域則會進行研發投資和市場進入投資，無論是有機的（這顯然始終是偏好）還是無機的，我們都有機會進行明智的收購，從而在成本結構和收入方面實現協同效應。但我認為我重點關注的另一件事是，我們在公司中推動有意義的規模價值的機會在哪裡。

This is a $20 billion company. And so therefore, as we look at growth segments and we look at investments we need to make, we're going to look at things that really move the needle and drive material growth. And obviously, with the profit profile we have, I mean, if you look at our current guidance, we need things over time, they're going to be additive to the overall product such that we drive meaningful cash flow for the business.

這是一家價值200億美元的公司。因此，當我們審視成長領域和需要進行的投資時，我們將專注於真正能夠推動發展和物質成長的因素。顯然，以我們現有的利潤狀況來看，如果你看看我們目前的指導，你會發現隨著時間的推移，我們需要一些東西，它們將會添加到整體產品中，從而為企業帶來有意義的現金流。

And so those two things are really where I think as I come in, I think that's where you're going to probably see a little bit of focus for me is making sure we have the discipline to say, "Hey, this may be an exciting opportunity, but it's not going to be material enough to impact our business. These may be things that we could actually spend a little bit more on.

因此，我認為當我加入公司時，這兩件事確實是我需要關注的一點，那就是確保我們能夠自律地說：「嘿，這可能是一個令人興奮的機會，但它不會對我們的業務產生重大影響。這些可能是我們實際上可以多花一點錢的東西。

And I think that's another thing that we see quite a bit with technology companies that win, they spend enough to win. So are there places where we can spend more in these areas to really differentiate ourselves or get an advantage vis-a-vis our competitors and provide value to our customers that's unique.

我認為這是我們經常看到的另一件事，成功的科技公司都投入了足夠的資金來取得成功。那麼，我們是否可以在這些領域投入更多資金，以真正實現差異化或在與競爭對手的競爭中獲得優勢，並為我們的客戶提供獨特的價值。

Yes. I wanted to think we could double-click on the traction with the hyperscale cloud customers. Since you include that within your enterprise numbers. I believe that with the Infinera acquisition, it would roughly double the past run rate. So I want to check on where you stand in this business and the trajectory, particularly interested in whether you're gaining traction in switching use cases yet or the timing of that particular traction?

是的。我想，我們可以再次抓住超大規模雲端客戶的機會。因為您將其包含在您的企業號碼中。我相信，透過收購 Infinera，其運行率將大約翻一番。因此，我想了解您在這個行業中所處的位置和發展軌跡，特別想知道您是否已經在切換用例方面獲得了牽引力，或者這種特定牽引力的時機？

Yes. I think a couple of things, I'll just touch on, Simon. I think first of all, obviously, we reported in an enterprise bucket. It's very clear to me coming in that hyperscale enterprise are two different markets, right? And so just to make sure that we're -- I'm articulating that clearly to you hyperscale for me is a hyperscale and AI data center, in particular, are a key focus for us.

是的。我想有幾件事我只想談一下，西蒙。我認為首先，顯然我們在企業桶中進行了報告。我很清楚超大規模企業是兩個不同的市場，對嗎？因此，為了確保我們——我向你們清楚地表達這一點，對我來說，超大規模就是超大規模，尤其是人工智慧資料中心，是我們的重點。

Obviously, when you talk about some of the growth that we had, we talked about it quite a bit in the context of the top networking business and our portfolio that we acquired through Infinera. I think these are clearly where we're seeing the most growth today.

顯然，當您談論我們的一些成長時，我們在頂級網路業務和透過 Infinera 收購的投資組合的背景下談論了很多。我認為這些顯然是我們今天看到的最大增長。

I do believe there is opportunity and some early activity in IP networks. And as I touched on earlier in an answer to the earlier question, I do think there's a bit of a longer cycle that we need to expect in terms of IP networks and seeing that revenue grow vis-a-vis the customers in this space. those investments have happened already in optical and particularly with some of the things that attracted us to Infinera.

我確實相信 IP 網路存在機會和一些早期活動。正如我之前在回答之前的問題時提到的那樣，我確實認為，就 IP 網路而言，我們需要預期一個更長的周期，並且看到該領域的收入相對於客戶而言有所增長。這些投資已經在光學領域發生，特別是吸引我們關注 Infinera 的東西。

And one other comment I'll make is in the fourth quarter earnings call, Pekka and Marco talked about the investment of EUR100 million per year to drive an incremental EUR1 billion in sales in '28, specifically around this networking opportunity. And I think as I look at the portfolio, one of my questions, obviously, is how big is that opportunity for us? How much more can we do there? And candidly, do we have the right technology stack to maximize value to customers. And I think there's positive indications, but obviously, I'll be looking at what we may need to evolve or do incrementally to accelerate that growth.

我要說的另一點是，在第四季度的收益電話會議上，Pekka 和 Marco 談到了每年投資 1 億歐元，以推動 28 年銷售額增加 10 億歐元，特別是圍繞這一網絡機會。我認為，當我審視投資組合時，我的一個問題顯然是，這個機會對我們來說有多大？我們還能做多少事情呢？坦白說，我們是否擁有正確的技術堆疊來最大限度地為客戶創造價值。我認為存在積極的跡象，但顯然，我會研究我們需要採取哪些發展或逐步採取哪些措施來加速這種成長。

Artem Beletski, SEB.

Artem Beletski，SEB。

So I would like to ask about NI and the outlook for this year. So you are still anticipating strong growth this year. Could you maybe provide some further color on how do you see the progress by subdivisions. So what we have seen in Q1 is really optical networks showing the best growth on an organic basis. How do you use the year for different areas here?

所以我想問一下有關 NI 和今年的前景。所以您仍然預計今年將出現強勁增長。能否進一步說明如何看待細分領域的進展？因此，我們在第一季看到的是光網路確實呈現最佳的有機成長。您如何使用年份來表示這裡的不同地區？

Maybe I'll start and let Marco add some comments. But I think from my perspective, I think if you look at the businesses, and I've been talking around this to just make it very explicit in the different questions, I think we see the biggest opportunity for growth this year in optical. I believe IP as the IP networks is the next largest opportunity for us.

也許我會開始並讓馬可添加一些評論。但我認為，從我的角度來看，如果你看一下這些業務，而且我一直在談論這個問題，只是想在不同的問題中明確地說明這一點，我認為我們看到今年光學領域最大的成長機會。我相信 IP 作為 IP 網路是我們下一個最大的機會。

I think for IP, I'm as focused on seeing traction and momentum with hyperscalers in terms of orders as well as revenue in the year, but I do think it's the next piece. And then fixed networks is a more predictable, stable growing business, right?

我認為對於 IP，我同樣關注的是超大規模企業在訂單和年度收入方面的吸引力和發展勢頭，但我確實認為這是下一個重點。那麼固定網路是一個更可預測、更穩定成長的業務，對嗎？

We are continuing to see demand for fiber. We talked a little bit about fixed wireless access as well as something that contributed to our growth in the first quarter. But this is an area where I think we also need to realize that, that business is not growing at the pace of optical or IP given from an end market perspective. And so from a TAM -- as we think about TAM and how we're addressing it, I think it's optical IP fixed networks. Marco, anything you would add to?

我們持續看到對纖維的需求。我們談論了一些有關固定無線存取以及一些有助於我們第一季成長的因素。但我認為，我們還需要認識到，從終端市場的角度來看，該領域的業務成長速度不如光纖或 IP 的速度。因此從 TAM 來看 — — 當我們考慮 TAM 以及我們如何解決它時，我認為它是光纖 IP 固定網路。馬可，您還有什麼要補充的嗎？

I think just to build on what you said, what comes to optical and Infinera, we were quite pleased to see as well that in quarter one, optical order intake Infinera side was very good and very strong on the hyperscaler side actually better than what we expected as well. And when it comes to fixed networks, this year, we will definitely see India coming back again, and you saw already in quarter one and the fixed minus growth of 9%, partly driven by fixed wise access in India and that we will see that will continue as well. And of course, we continue to pursue those hyperscale earned CSP opportunities in IP side as we go and invest more, specifically on the IP and data center side.

我認為，基於您所說的，關於光學和 Infinera，我們也很高興地看到，在第一季度，Infinera 的光學訂單量非常好，超大規模方面的訂單量非常強勁，實際上也比我們預期的要好。說到固定網絡，今年我們肯定會看到印度再次復甦，您已經在第一季度看到了固定網絡負增長 9%，部分原因是印度的固定接入推動了這一趨勢，我們將看到這種情況還將繼續下去。當然，隨著我們不斷增加投資，特別是在 IP 和資料中心方面，我們將繼續尋求 IP 方面的超大規模 CSP 機會。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Artem?

你有快速的後續行動嗎，Artem？

Yes, I had. So as a quick follow-up is actually relating to mobile networks. And one metric, what you have been providing more recently is net footprint gains, and I think that's commentary Mobile World Congress was plus 300 compared to the situation at the year end of 2023. Are you willing to provide some update on this front, especially given T-Mobile renewal?

是的，我有。因此，快速的後續問題實際上與行動網路有關。您最近提供的一項指標是淨足跡收益，我認為，與 2023 年底的情況相比，世界行動通訊大會的成長是 300%。您是否願意提供一些這方面的最新消息，特別是考慮到 T-Mobile 的續約？

Yes. Thank you. What we have now said is that what we see for this year growth wise, and we said that mobile networks is stabilizing Otherwise, we haven't given any more indication on mobile networks. And we will have a Capital Morgans Day later this year, and we will give you more understanding of the mobile networks business as a whole, and I hope that you will get more food for thought from that event as well.

是的。謝謝。我們現在所說的是，我們看到今年的成長情況，我們說行動網路正在穩定下來，除此之外，我們還沒有對行動網路給出任何其他指示。今年稍後我們將舉辦摩根資本日活動，讓大家對整個行動網路業務有更多的了解，我希望你們也能從這次活動中得到更多的啟發。

Sami Sarkamies, Danske Bank.

丹麥銀行的薩米·薩卡米斯（Sami Sarkamies）。

I'd like to get a bit more color on enterprise sales, which were the bright spot in the report with 27% organic growth. Can you be a bit more specific on what drove the growth in terms of product areas or regions? And do you expect to maintain this momentum in the coming quarters as well?

我想多了解企業銷售情況，這是報告中的亮點，有機成長率達 27%。您能否更具體地說明推動產品領域或地區成長的因素？您是否預計未來幾季仍能保持這種勢頭？

Yes, Sami, so enterprise sales, as I just touched on in a previous question, in our definition, has included hyperscale, which is really the growth driver was -- and again, this was really driven by optical and more acutely by Infinera, right? Again, this is right back to the core thesis of what we talked about. The other point geographically, is that this was largely in the US. So as you think about this, a lot of the growth and really validating your early thesis on Infinera came in that segment.

是的，薩米，正如我剛才在上一個問題中提到的，在我們的定義中，企業銷售包括超大規模，這才是真正的成長動力——而且，這實際上是由光學驅動的，更重要的是由 Infinera 驅動的，對嗎？再一次，這又回到了我們所討論的核心論點。從地理位置上看，另一點是，這主要發生在美國。因此，當您考慮這一點時，您會發現，很多增長以及真正驗證您早期關於 Infinera 的論文都來自這一部分。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Sami?

薩米，你有什麼後續行動嗎？

Yes. Maybe related to the Amazon video idealizing deal. Can you explain why it didn't contain any catch-up cements even though they've been violating Nokia we are for a number of years and is the implication that we'll not be seeing those in the future deals either.

是的。可能與亞馬遜影片理想化交易有關。你能解釋為什麼它不包含任何追趕水泥嗎，儘管他們多年來一直在侵犯諾基亞，並且是否意味著我們在未來的交易中也不會看到這些。

Yes. As you know, Usually, these deals are confidential and when it comes to terms and conditions. So we cannot go into details of those. We can just say that we are happy to see that we amicably signed a deal. And this also ended all litigation issues that we had with Amazon.

是的。如您所知，通常這些交易都是保密的，並且涉及條款和條件。所以我們無法詳細討論這些。我們只能說，我們很高興看到我們友好地簽署了協議。這也結束了我們與亞馬遜之間的所有訴訟問題。

And we said that in quarter one, we had some catch-up payments related to this agreement, but we cannot give any more details on that. Justin, do you want to add anything?

我們說過，在第一季度，我們有一些與該協議相關的補繳款項，但我們無法提供更多細節。賈斯汀，你還有什麼要補充嗎？

Yes, two things. I think one is, we're pleased overall with the tax net sales run rate. So looking at technologies has now increased to EUR1.4 billion in terms of the net sales run rate. This is in line with our EUR1.4 billion to EUR1.5 billion guide. I think that's a good thing.

是的，有兩件事。我認為，首先，我們對稅收淨銷售額運行率總體感到滿意。因此，從淨銷售額運行率來看，技術現已增加到 14 億歐元。這符合我們的 14 億歐元至 15 億歐元指引。我認為這是一件好事。

And then just back to Amazon. This is a very important customer very important hyperscale customer for us across our -- certainly, our NI business as well. And then they're also an important partner for us in terms of our cloud and network services business as well as a public cloud where we're running certain platforms and services, and there's been announcements around that publicly.

然後回到亞馬遜。對於我們整個 NI 業務來說，這是一個非常重要的客戶，也是非常重要的超大規模客戶。就我們的雲端和網路服務業務以及運行某些平台和服務的公有雲而言，他們也是我們的重要合作夥伴，並且已經公開發布了相關公告。

So I think for me, I really look at this as a sort of a 360 relationship. And obviously, this is one element. And it's important to recognize that there's other value that other value in the partnership beyond just a tech licensing agreement.

所以我認為對我來說，我真的把這看作是一種 360 度關係。顯然，這是一個要素。重要的是要認識到，除了技術許可協議之外，合作夥伴關係還有其他價值。

Francois Bouvignies, UBS.

瑞銀集團的 Francois Bouvignies。

My first question would be on the very high level. I mean Justin, you talk about capital allocation as your main priority and focusing on growth. Now, Nokia before you joined was already focusing a lot on network infrastructure. And obviously, what you reported today is still fairly growth sector. On top of that, you have your background, like coming from these hyperscalers side of things, mostly in the truck infrastructure.

我的第一個問題是一個非常高層次的問題。我的意思是賈斯汀，你說資本配置是你的首要任務，並專注於成長。在您加入之前，諾基亞就已經非常重視網路基礎架構了。顯然，您今天報告的仍然是相當成長的領域。除此之外，你還有自己的背景，例如來自超大規模企業的背景，主要是卡車基礎設施方面。

So how does it fit your capital allocation priority with your mobile network assets in a way that you focus on growth, but it's an ex growth market effectively when you look at the rand forecast. So it seems difficult to get a lot of growth out of this market, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe you can highlight some you can get. So how important mobile network is for you in your capital allocation strategy? And in a broader question, like -- is it something in your discussion review of the business. Mobile network is also part of your discussion or is it how important this is for Nokia for the group?

那麼，如何將您的資本配置優先順序與您的行動網路資產相匹配，以便您專注於成長，但當您查看蘭特預測時，它實際上是一個非成長市場。因此，從這個市場獲得大量成長似乎很困難，但也許我錯了，也許你可以強調一些你可以獲得的成長。那麼，行動網路在您的資本配置策略中有多重要？而更廣泛的問題是——這是您在討論業務時所討論的內容嗎？行動網路也是您討論的一部分，或者這對諾基亞集團來說有多重要？

Thank you, Francois. So a couple of comments. I think there were a couple of questions embedded in there, so I'm going to answer sort of two questions, if I can. So one is on capital allocation. I think first of all, this is one of the most important parts of a CEO's role is capital allocation.

謝謝你，弗朗索瓦。有幾點評論。我認為其中存在幾個問題，所以如果可以的話，我將回答兩個問題。一個是關於資本配置。我認為首先，這是CEO職責中最重要的部分之一就是資本配置。

And when I think about capital allocation, I think about it in terms of how we allocate capital for R&D, capital for go-to-market and also our intellectual capital. I think that's just as important, right, is how we apply our talent and cultivate and develop our talent. My focus is always going to be around investing resources that maximize value. And there's always going to be -- there's also different stages in businesses where R&D intensity is higher versus lower and the cycles that we go through. And I think if you look at our businesses, and this is where I'll get to the answer your question on MN.

當我考慮資本配置時，我會考慮如何分配研發資本、市場進入資本、智力資本。我認為同樣重要的是我們如何運用我們的才能、培養和發展我們的才能。我的重點始終是投資能達到價值最大化的資源。而且總是會有──企業也會經歷不同的階段，研發強度有高有低，以及我們所經歷的週期。我認為，如果您看一下我們的業務，我會在這裡回答您關於 MN 的問題。

I think in my early observations on the businesses, these are very different businesses. And the way I think about it is if you look at NI, NI is a business that is on a pretty aggressive cycle of investment right now because of the AI and hyperscale build, but also that if you look at the product cycles traditionally in networking and optical, they've moved at a faster pace. And there's a lot of work we can do through solutions and through continued R&D and then close collaboration with our customers around that investment, particularly, I believe, in hyperscale, there's more opportunity to do some of that and around AI cloud.

我認為，根據我對這些企業的早期觀察，它們是非常不同的企業。我的想法是，如果你看看 NI，你會發現 NI 目前正處於相當積極的投資週期，因為人工智慧和超大規模建設，但如果你看看傳統網路和光學領域的產品週期，你會發現它們的發展速度更快。我們可以透過解決方案、持續研發以及與客戶密切合作來完成許多工作，特別是我相信在超大規模領域以及圍繞人工智慧雲端領域，我們有更多的機會來完成這些工作。

If I look at MN, and I think it's also important, if you look at MN, the way I'm starting to think about the business I think is -- RAN is one part of the business. But what makes us unique is that we are really one of two European -- sorry, two European players and two Western players that have a full portfolio in this space. We have a robust brand portfolio. We have a robust core portfolio, which is a critical part of the mobile network solution for our customers. And we have a robust IP portfolio in this space as well.

如果我看一下 MN，我認為它也很重要，如果你看一下 MN，我開始思考業務的方式是——RAN 是業務的一部分。但我們的獨特之處在於，我們實際上是兩家歐洲公司之一——抱歉，是兩家歐洲公司和兩家西方公司，在這個領域擁有完整的投資組合。我們擁有強大的品牌組合。我們擁有強大的核心產品組合，這是我們為客戶提供的行動網路解決方案的關鍵部分。我們在這個領域也擁有強大的智慧財產權組合。

And so when I look at that holistically, and that's the way I would think about it. I think there are significant areas for us to drive value capture. I'm very encouraged by the growth we're seeing in core and the work that the cloud and network services team is doing, and when I look at the RAN business, I think the other thing I've observed is this is obviously a heavily project-based business because of the way these deals are sold and committed and then deployed, but it's also a scale business. And so that's a different -- the scale business on the RAN side is a little bit different than what we see on NI.

所以當我從整體來看這個問題時，我就會這樣思考。我認為，我們有很多重要領域可以推動價值獲取。我對核心業務的成長以及雲端和網路服務團隊所做的工作感到非常鼓舞，當我審視 RAN 業務時，我認為我觀察到的另一件事是，這顯然是一項高度基於專案的業務，因為這些交易的銷售、承諾和部署方式，但它也是一項規模業務。因此，RAN 方面的規模業務與我們在 NI 上看到的略有不同。

So again, I've got some early thoughts. I'm sharing a little bit with you transparently in terms of how I'm thinking about the businesses. But as I spend more time with our customers, obviously, with our employees, digging in more deeply into the technology stack, spending time, obviously, with our shareholders. I'll continue to refine my view of where do I think the optimal value capture opportunities are. And it's probably important to note as well, I didn't touch on it.

所以，我再次提出了一些早期的想法。我會坦誠地與你們分享我對這些業務的看法。但我花更多的時間與我們的客戶在一起，顯然，與我們的員工在一起，更深入地研究技術堆棧，顯然，也花更多的時間與我們的股東在一起。我將繼續完善我的觀點，我認為最佳價值獲取機會在哪裡。也許還需要注意的是，我沒有提到它。

But we've talked about some interesting emerging opportunities in enterprise and defense around RAN. And I am encouraged by what I think will be some favorable trends in ran around defense. As I'm encouraged long term that AI will drive new investment, new services, new value opportunities in the broader RAN marketplace. So both for defense and I think through traditional telecommunication services. As you think about things in AI, like augmented reality, virtual reality, autonomous vehicles, robotics, all of them are going to need wireless communications.

但我們已經討論了圍繞 RAN 在企業和國防領域出現的一些有趣的機會。我認為跑動防守方面將會出現一些有利的趨勢，這讓我感到鼓舞。我很高興看到，從長遠來看，人工智慧將推動更廣泛的 RAN 市場的新投資、新服務和新價值機會。因此，我認為無論是對於國防還是透過傳統的電信服務都是如此。當你考慮人工智慧中的事物時，例如擴增實境、虛擬實境、自動駕駛汽車、機器人，它們都需要無線通訊。

And that wireless communications will need to be performant. It will need to be reliable. It will need to be secure. Those are things that are going to require investment. And so I think while the business cycles are a little bit different, I do think there's a lot of value to be captured over time in the mobile networks business.

並且無線通訊需要具有高性能。它必須是可靠的。它必須是安全的。這些都是需要投資的事情。因此我認為，儘管商業週期略有不同，但我確實認為隨著時間的推移，行動網路業務將有很多價值可言。

Thanks, Francois. Did you have a quick follow-up?

謝謝，弗朗索瓦。你有快速跟進嗎？

Felix Henriksson, Nordea.

菲利克斯·亨利克森（Felix Henriksson），北歐聯合銀行（Nordea）。

I wanted to ask if you witnessed any sort of a demand pull forward in MN or NI from your US customers during the first quarter in anticipation to the tariffs?

我想問一下，在第一季度，您是否看到美國客戶因預期關稅而對明尼蘇達州或北愛爾蘭地區的需求出現任何形式的提前？

Yes. I think, Felix, we did not see anything that we would classify as a material impact in Q1. Obviously, we're spending a lot of time in looking at this for Q2. Today, we don't see a material shift in demand in Q2, but this is something, as I mentioned in my comment, we're spending time with our customers, both my level and obviously, our broader teams levels to understand and assess and be very responsive around that need and that's something that we're also considering in terms of our -- leveraging our global manufacturing network.

是的。菲利克斯，我認為我們沒有看到任何可以歸類為對第一季產生重大影響的事情。顯然，我們花了很多時間研究第二季度的問題。今天，我們沒有看到第二季度需求出現實質性變化，但正如我在評論中提到的那樣，我們正在花時間與客戶在一起，包括我的層面，顯然還有我們更廣泛的團隊層面，以了解和評估客戶的需求，並對此做出積極的響應，這也是我們在利用全球製造網絡方面正在考慮的事情。

Did you have a quick follow-up, Felix?

菲利克斯，你有什麼後續行動嗎？

Yes. A quick follow-up relating to hyperscaler spend. Obviously, you called out strong growth in that part of the business within enterprise. But I wanted to ask in light of this sort of talk about some of the hyperscalers such as Microsoft and Amazon freezing data center leasing talks, if you had observed any sort of hesitancy in customer spend in this segment in your sales pipeline?

是的。與超大規模支出相關的快速跟進。顯然，您指出企業內部該部分業務實現了強勁成長。但我想問一下，鑑於微軟和亞馬遜等一些超大規模企業凍結資料中心租賃談判的言論，您是否在銷售管道中觀察到客戶對這一領域的支出有任何猶豫？

I think as we talked about, we're pleased with both the revenue performance in optical, which is our -- where we have the highest exposure to hyperscaler today and the order growth, which had a book-to-bill above 1. So strong growth with strong order growth. A couple of comments I'll make on this is I think, first of all, and for those of you that know the hyperscale market, you know this. One is pausing leasing talks doesn't necessarily indicate a change to their CapEx plan because hyperscalers are -- have multiple investment options with data center which include through co-location facilities as well as their own builds. The other thing I would say is we'd probably anticipate, if we go back and look at history, we should probably anticipate some of the similar trends that we saw in cloud in the past, playing through in AI.

我想，正如我們所討論的，我們對光學業務的收入表現感到滿意，這是我們目前對超大規模客戶曝光率最高的業務，而且訂單增長也很好，訂單出貨比超過了 1。因此，訂單成長強勁，成長強勁。對此我想發表幾點評論，首先，對於那些了解超大規模市場的人來說，你們都知道這一點。暫停租賃談判並不一定意味著他們的資本支出計劃會改變，因為超大規模企業在資料中心方面有多種投資選擇，包括透過主機託管設施以及他們自己建立的資料中心。我想說的另一件事是，我們可能會預料到，如果我們回顧歷史，我們可能會預見過去在雲端運算中看到的一些類似趨勢，這些趨勢將在人工智慧中發揮作用。

And specifically, what I mean that is where we saw massive capital build, we also saw short-term periods of digestion around technology transitions. Of course, if you think about the GPU market today, we're in a period of technology transition. So none of this surprises me -- and again, if I look back to our portfolio where we have been getting the most investment in traction with hyperscale customers. I think our order book and our pipeline appear to indicate that there's not a long-term shed to the investment thesis that this market segment has.

具體來說，我的意思是，我們看到了大量的資本積累，我們也看到了圍繞技術轉型的短期消化期。當然，如果你考慮到當今的 GPU 市場，我們正處於技術轉型時期。因此，這些都不會讓我感到驚訝——而且，如果我回顧我們的投資組合，我們會發現我們在吸引超大規模客戶方面獲得了最多的投資。我認為我們的訂單和管道似乎表明，這個細分市場的投資理論不會長期存在。

Rob Sanders, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的羅布‧桑德斯。

I just had a question about your EMS partners. I'm interested just to sort of understand how quickly they could redomicile their production from Mexico to Southeast Asia to back to Mexico, maybe into the USA., if there's enough labor? And do you have -- assuming that plays out that tariffs do happen, do you have the ability to pass on higher costs under the contracts you have with your customers?

我只是想問一下你們的 EMS 合作夥伴。我感興趣的是了解如果有足夠的勞動力，他們能多快將生產從墨西哥轉移到東南亞，然後再轉移回墨西哥，甚至美國？假設關稅確實發生，您是否有能力根據與客戶簽訂的合約轉嫁更高的成本？

Yes. What I'll say on this is that, again, this is a dynamic situation. It's something we're monitoring closely. Our focus is on what we can control. And obviously, we're evaluating all mitigation options, the key thing I'll emphasize in our global manufacturing network is I think we've been pretty flexible and pretty agile on this in the past.

是的。我想說的是，這是一個動態的情況。我們正在密切關注此事。我們的重點是我們能夠控制的事情。顯然，我們正在評估所有緩解措施，我要強調的關鍵一點是，在我們的全球製造網絡中，我認為我們過去在這方面表現得非常靈活和敏捷。

And certainly, if you look back at the supply chain shortages that happened during COVID and spending time with the team. I think one of the things that was clear was that we had some real strength in those areas. But obviously, this is something we're going to continue to to work on. And then as we see the situation play out, we'll provide updates and clarity on the actions we're taking.

當然，如果你回顧 COVID 期間發生的供應鏈短缺並與團隊共度時光。我認為有一點很清楚，那就是我們在這些領域確實擁有實力。但顯然，我們會繼續努力。然後，隨著情況的發展，我們將提供最新消息並澄清我們正在採取的行動。

Got it. And just as a follow-up, could you just update on the B program? Obviously, a lot of expected next year. How is -- there has been some pushout in the last sort of few quarters. So where are we in terms of seeing the big uptick in orders? Is that in the first half of next year or is it sooner?

知道了。作為後續問題，您能否更新一下 B 計畫？顯然，人們對明年抱有很多期待。怎麼樣——在過去的幾個季度裡出現了一些推遲的情況。那麼，就訂單量大幅上升而言，我們處於什麼位置？那是在明年上半年還是更早？

Yes. I think we -- this is something we're obviously following closely. I think we've been clear that it's not something we expected impact from this year. I don't think our view has changed on that. And obviously, we think that fiber will continue to be it's a compelling technology.

是的。我認為我們——這顯然是我們密切關注的事情。我想我們已經明確表示，這不是我們預期今年會產生影響的事情。我認為我們對此的看法沒有改變。顯然，我們認為光纖將繼續成為一項引人注目的技術。

We think it continues to be a driver. As I mentioned, as I looked at the growth segments within NI, I think fiber continues to probably be the slowest grower of this just because it's a more stable market, but we are anticipating growth -- continued growth in business, albeit not at the certainly from a TAM perspective, not the same potential that we see with optical and IP networking.

我們認為它將繼續成為一個驅動力。正如我所提到的，當我研究 NI 內的成長部分時，我認為光纖可能仍然是成長最慢的部分，因為它是一個更穩定的市場，但我們預計業務將持續成長，儘管從 TAM 角度來看肯定不是這樣，但潛力與光纖和 IP 網路不同。

Jakob Bluestone, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的雅各布·布魯斯通（Jakob Bluestone）。

Very quick question. Just to clarify a little bit how your contracts work when it comes to tariffs. Is it you that carries the cost of any potential tariffs or is that automatically passed on to customers? I presume from your guidance, it's the former, but if you can just clarify who's contractually actually carrying the cost?

非常簡單的問題。只是想稍微澄清一下你們的合約在關稅方面是如何運作的。您是否承擔了任何潛在關稅的成本，還是這些成本會自動轉嫁給客戶？根據您的指導，我推測是前者，但您是否可以澄清一下，根據合同，誰實際上承擔了費用？

Yes. I think the key thing here is we have contracts across very many different businesses and different contracts and different businesses, as I touched on some of the dynamics between our businesses. And obviously, the businesses have varying exposure to tariffs as well. So I think there's probably not 1 simple answer. But again, as I mentioned, we're looking at every alternative around how we mitigate the impact of tariffs.

是的。我認為這裡的關鍵是我們與許多不同的企業簽訂了合同，不同的合同和不同的企業簽訂了合同，正如我談到的我們企業之間的一些動態一樣。顯然，不同企業受到的關稅影響也不同。所以我認為可能沒有一個簡單的答案。但正如我所提到的，我們正在研究各種減輕關稅影響的替代方案。

Understood. A very quick follow-up as well. Just on the DMS contract, if you can just give any color on when does it kick in and are there any things that we should be aware of in terms of how it might sort of if it's lower margin, higher margin initially, just so we can think about any modeling around that, just given the size.

明白了。同樣也是非常快速的後續行動。僅就 DMS 合約而言，如果您可以說明它何時生效，以及我們是否應該注意一些事情，例如如果最初的利潤率較低，利潤率較高，那麼我們可以考慮圍繞該合約進行任何建模，只要考慮到規模。

Yes. I appreciate that. Obviously, I think we've shared some -- an overview of the T-Mobile deal. It's a significant multiyear extension. For me, it's also a signal of the important partnership that we have with T-Mobile US and their commitment to continuing to being a leader in innovation in the market, but there's nothing else we'll say about the details of the contract.

是的。我很感激。顯然，我認為我們已經分享了一些有關 T-Mobile 交易的概述。這是一項重要的多年期延期。對我來說，這也是我們與 T-Mobile US 之間重要合作關係的信號，以及他們致力於繼續成為市場創新領導者的承諾，但關於合約的細節，我們不會透露更多。

Thanks, Jakob, and thank you, everyone, for joining the call today, and both Justin and Marco for their comments. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. I would like to remind you that during the call today, we have made a number of forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. Actual results may, therefore, differ materially from the results currently expected.

謝謝，雅各布，也謝謝大家今天參加電話會議，也謝謝賈斯汀和馬可的評論。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我想提醒大家，在今天的電話會議中，我們做了一些涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。因此，實際結果可能與目前預期的結果有重大差異。

Factors that could cause such differences can be both external as well as internal operating factors. We have identified such risks in the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F, which is available on our Investor Relations website. Thank you all for joining us today.

造成這種差異的因素既有外在因素，也有內在因素。我們已在 20-F 表年度報告的風險因素部分中確定了此類風險，該報告可在我們投資者關係網站上查閱。感謝大家今天的參與。

Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines. Good-bye.

感謝您參加今天的演講。現在您可以斷開線路了。再見。